1624
THE PACK-MANS PATER NOSTER, OR
A Dialogue betwixt
A Chapman and a Priest.
Newlie translated out of Dutch, by SIS.
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ABERDENE, PRINTED BY EDWARD RABAN, for David Melvill, 1624.
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A CONFERENCE Betweene a Pedler and a Priest. OR
The Packe-mans Pater Noster,
That hee learn'd in a Closter:
VVhereof hee sore repented,
And prayes it may bee prented.
Not fitting for the Schooles,
Yet Schoole-master of Fooles.
A POLLANDS PEDLER went vpon a day,
Vnto his Parish Priest, to learne to pray.
The Priest sayd; Packe-man, thou must hant the Closter,
To learne the Ave, and the Pater noster.
Packe-man.
NOW, good Sir Priest, saide hée, what talke is that?
I heare you speake; but GOD in Heaven knowes what.
Priest.
It is, sayde hee, that holie Latine Letter,
That pleaseth God well, and our Ladie better.
Packe-man.
Alace, Sir Iohn, I'll never vnderstand them:
So I must leaue your Prayers, as a fand them.
Priest.
Tush, tush, sayes hee, if thou list for to liere,
Within a month I shall make thee parquiere.
Packe-man.
Parquiere, sayde hée, that will bée but in saying;
In words, not sense; a pratling, not a praying.
Shall I (Sir Iohn) a man of perfect age,
Pray lyke an ydle Parret in a Cage?
Priest.
A Parret can but prattle for her part,
But toward God hath neither head nor heart.
Packe-man.
And séeing I haue head and heart to pray,
Should not mine heart know what my tongue doth say?
For when my tongue talks, if mine heart miscarie.
Howe quicklie may I marre your Ave Marie?
And I (Sir) having manie things to séeke,
How shall I speede, not knowing what I speake?
Priest.
Because that GOD all Tongues doth vnderstand,
Yea, knowes thy verie thoughts before the hand.
Packe-man.
Then if I thinke one thing, and speake another,
I will both crabb Christ, and our Ladie His Mother.
For when I pray for making vp my Packe, man,
Your Ave Marie is not worth a Placke, man.
Priest.
Thy Latine Prayers are but generall heades,
Contayning everie speciall that thou needes:
The Latine serues vs for a Liturgie,
As Medciners direct the Chirurgie.
And in this language Messe is sayde and sung.
For private thinges pray in thy mother tongue.
Packe-man.
Then must I haue a tongue (Sir Iohn) for eyther;
One for the Mother, another for the Father.
Priest.
Thinkst thou the Mother doth not know such small things?
Christ is her Sonne, man, and Hee telles her all things.
Packe-man.
But (good Sir Iohn) where learn'd our Ladie her Latines?
For in her dayes were neither Messe nor Matines:
Nor yet one Priest that Latine then did speake:
For holie words were then all Hebrew and Greeke.
Shée never was at Rome, nor kist Popes féete:
How came shée by the Messe, then, would I wit?
Priest.
Packe-man, if thou belieue the Legendarie,
The Messe is elder farre than Christ or Marie:
For all the Patriarks, both more and lesse,
And great Melchisedec himselfe sayde Messe.
Packe-man.
But (good Sir Iohn) spake all these Fathers Latine?
And sayde they Messe in Surplices and Satine?
Could they speake Latine long yet Latine grew?
And without Latine no Messe can bée true.
And as for Heretickes that now translate it.
False Miscreants; they shame the Messe, and state it.
Priest.
Well (Packe-man) fayth thou art too curious;
Thy spur-blinde zeale; fervent, but furious.
I rather teach a whole Coven of Monkes;
Than such a Packe-man, with his Puritane spunkes.
This thou must know, that cannot bee denyed,
Rome rang over all when Christ was crucifyed:
Rome Ethnicke then: but afterwardes converted,
And grew so honest, and so holie hearted:
That now her Emprour is turn'd in our Pope,
His Holinesse; as you haue heard, I hope.
Hee made a law, that all the world should pray,
In Latine language to the Lord each day:
Therefore of this thou mayst bee sure and sickar,
The Pope of Rome is now made Christs full Vicar.
Packe-man.
Surelie this purpose puts mée farre abacke,
And hath moe Poyntes than Pinnes in all my Packe:
What ever power you giue to your Pope,
Hée may not make a man an Ape, I hope.
And if hee bee full Vicar to our LORD,
Should not his words and CHRISTS keepe one accord?
Priest.
Doubtlesse they doe: and never are contrarie,
In PATER NOSTER, CREED, nor AVE MARIE.
Packe-man.
But Christs Disciples, when they made their motion
To Christ their Master, how to make devotion,
As I haue done to you, Sir Iohn, to day,
I pray you, in what Tongue bade Hee them pray?
Christ did not one word Latine to them speake:
Their talke was all in Syriacke, Hebrew, Greeke.
Hee bade all Nations pray after one manner;
But bade not all take Latine for their Banner.
Your Latine is but one of the Translations:
Why should it then exclude all other Nations?
¶ And, on my Soule, Sir Iohn, if I but say,
In mine owne Mother-tongue, when I doe pray,
Lord, helpe mee; Lord, forgiue mee all my Sinnes:
Yea, why not, Lord, increase my Packe and Pinnes?
And everie thing where-of I stand in neede:
For this dependes vpon Our Daylie Bread.
I hope in GOD, that Hee shall as soone heare mee,
As all the Latine Prayers you can leare mee.
And since some Tongues haue more Antiquitie
Than Latine, were it not iniquitie
To force all People to pray lyke the Pope?
No, good Sir Iohn, you'll not say that, I hope.
Priest.
But, Packe-man, one poynt would I faine make playne:
Let vs come backe, vnto our Ladie agayne.
And if thou hadst as much capacitie,
As roaving wit, with great audacitie,
The case is cleare, that Virgine Marie meeke,
Shee could all Languages perfectlie speake.
Hast thou not heard, man, how the holie Ghost
Came downe lyke cloven tongues at Pentecost?
And fill'd the house where all the twelue were readie:
And one tongue truelie lighted on our Ladie.
And lest thou thinke I talke of ydle Themes,
Consult the reverend Iesuites of
Vpon Act. 2. 4.
Rhemes.And this I pray thee, Packe-man, earnestlie note.
Packe-man.
In fayth, Sir Iohn, it is not worth a Groate.
Will I belieue't, thinke yee, because they say it?
Priest.
No: but they proue't, as no man can denay it.
Sayth not the Text, that when the Lord ascended,
Act. 1. 4
Vnto the twelue Hee earnestlie recommended,That from Ierusalem they should not goe,
Vntill the Comforter should come? And so,
Into an vpper roome they went together,
Where
Act. 1. 12. 13. 14.
Marie still was one, yee must consider.With manie moe, in number full
Vers. 15.
sixe score,That with the twelue did daylie GOD adore.
And then hee sayth, When
Act. 2. 1
Pentecost was come,They were together in one place, all, and some.
And
Vers. 4.
(All) were filled with the Holie Ghost.Packe-man.
O, good Sir Iohn, yee count without your Host.
Now see I well, your Iesuiticall tongues
Haue cloven the Text, even to the verie lungues.
That
Act. 1. 15
(All) which first was spoken of sixe score,Act. [...]. [...].
Is heere meant of the onelie twelue, no more.Nor Marie is not named now, as then.
What neede wee then belieue it, Holie man?
On with your Spectacles (Sir Iohn) and reade,
And credite this, as a point of your Creede.
The Holie Ghost could fall vpon no more,
Than hee was promised vnto before.
Doubtlesse hee tooke not a blinde-folded flight,
Lyke syled Larkes, not knowing where to light.
Now, hee was promisde
Act. [...]. [...].
onelie to the twelue.Looke on the Text (Sir Iohn) and judge your selue.
Speake man, and bee not silent: I am sorie,
To see you ignorant of such a Storie.
¶ And as the stories in themselues are divers,
Flowing and falling into sundrie Rivers:
In divers Chapters
To wit, the first and second Chapters.
so they stand divided,So that the case may clearelie bée decided.
For when those sixe score were at first conveaned,
There was another mysterie then meaned:
To wit, Matthias frée election.
And so Sainct Peter gaue direction,
That (All) the sixe score there should beare record
Of their procéedings then before the Lord.
The choosing of a Pastor was in hand:
Which without the Churches knowledge cannot stand.
And so Matthias through the power of Heaven,
By
Act. 1. 26.
lot was helde as one of the eleven.Then sayes the Text:
And 2. 1.
All these were still together.What (All) these were, let anie man consider.
The twelue, say I, in the last verse before:
And not make leape-yeare of eleven verse more,
To draw (All) backe to those hundreth and twentie.
Indéede this way wee should haue tongues in plentie.
And as they differ by twelue verse or lynes,
So are they ten dayes different in tymes.
The first, vpon the day that Christ ascended,
The other, when the Holie Ghost descended.
Such glazen Arguments will byde none Hammer:
For they are but ill Logicke, and worse Grammer.
So onelie twelue reciev'd the Holy Ghost.
And so our Ladie all her tongues hath lost.
¶ Now for the Holie Ghost, Sir Iohn, yée know,
His comming downe is tyed to no law:
Some tymes invisible, and some tymes séene.
As diverslie at divers tymes hath béene.
His comming néedes but to bée séene of few.
His works may serue for witnesses anew.
And so Saint Paul himselfe this gift hée fand,
But privatelie by Ananias hand.
¶ And so (Sir Iohn) to show you all my Packe,
And let you see my breast as well as backe:
I wonder yee consider not the Ende,
Why God the Holie Ghost, in Tongues did sende.
Know yée not, Tongues were onelie given for teaching?
Know yée not, Women are forbidden preaching?
Yea, scarce at home haue libertie of spéech;
But aske their husbands, and they for to teach.
Since Women then in Gods word may not walke,
What should they doe with Tongues that may not talke?
¶ And then (Sir Iohn) what worship doe yée win
Vnto our Ladie, when yée bring her in,
Iacke-fellow-lyke with other whole sixe score,
Who got the Holie Ghost, and shée no more?
And where the Pope hath made her Queene of Heaven,
Yée make her but lyke one of the eleven.
Surelie (Sir Iohn) this is an ill fav'rd fitching;
Yee thrust her from the Hall downe to the Kitching.
¶ And this is also one of the rare Themes,
Helde by your reverend Iesuites of Rhemes:
On 1. Cor. 14.
That Latine came not with the Holie Ghost,When the cloven tongues came at the Pentecost.
Now, if it came not by the Holie Ghost,
How got it all this holinesse in haste,
That in it onelie, and none other Tongue,
Both Messe and Matines should bee sayde and sung?
Your last refuge will bee vnto the Pope;
So knit vp all together in one Rope.
¶ Then, good Sir Iohn, consider but a litle,
How yee giue vnto Marie manie a title:
Whereof yee haue no warrant in the Word;
And yet pursue vs both with fire and sword,
As Heretickes, for not doing as yee-doe:
Yet what the Word bids, and no more, that wee-doe.
Thinke yee that anie man can bee so mad,
As to holde Christ, his Saviour; and so bad.
As to holde Marie for his Saviours Mother,
And not to loue that woman boue all other?
Wee loue her then, tho wee belieue not in her;
Nor by Will-worship thinke wee for to win her.
Wee holde her blessed, for Christs Flesh conceiving,
But farre more blessed, for Christs Fayth receiving:
Shee is His Mother; and the Church, His VVyfe;
VVhich was to Him much dearer than His Lyfe.
So if the one could fall out with the other,
Hee would respect His VVyfe, more than His Mother.
For this is everie Spouses carriage;
But moste, in this Spirituall Marriage.
And as shee's Mother of His humane lyfe,
Shee's but a Daughter of His Heavenlie Wyfe.
And by this Mother, member of Christs Bodie.
Who thinkes not so, is but a verie Noddie.
All this (Sir Iohn) I doe but briefelie say;
To let you see, that yee play vs foule play.
Priest.
Well Packe-man, tho thou beare about that Trunke,
I feare thou bee but some forlopen Monke,
Of Luthers lore, or crooked Calvines Crew;
And sent abroade, such businesse to brew:
Transformed in the person of some Pedler.
Packe-man.
No, good Sir Iohn, in fayth I am no medler,
Nor haue I mynde nor meanes so high to mount:
I can but reade a little, and lay a Count.
And seeke my meate through manie an vncouth Maison:
I know not what yee call your Kyrie-laison.
So helpe mee God, Sir Iohn, I know no better,
Nor in your Latine can I reade one letter.
I but belieue in God: and sometyme say,
Christ helpe mee, when I wander out the way.
And so, what ever I haue, what ever I want,
I neither pray to Hee, nor to Shee Sainct.
¶ And as for Tongues, I haue but one, no more:
And wit yee well, albeit I had ten score,
I would vse all conforme to Paules commanding:
Pray with my tongue, pray with mine vnderstanding.
Thinke ye those twelue, when they receiv'd these tongues,
Did talke like Parrets, or like barrell bungues:
Yeelding a sound, not knowing what they sayde?
Ydle in preaching, ydler when they prayde.
No, each of them knew well what hee did say:
And why not wee, Sir Iohn, as well as they?
For since all men haue one tongue at command,
Should wee seeke tongues wee doe not vnderstand?
Alas, Sir Iohn, had I beene trayn'd at Schoole,
As I am but a simple ignorant foole,
An hundreth Questions more I might haue moved,
But heere I cease, fearing to bee reproved:
For these few doubts I learn'd in divers places,
Thinking, yee Clergie-men would cleare all cases.
Priest.
Now, Packe-man, I confesse thou puts mee to it:
But one thing I will tell thee, if thou'lt doe it:
Thou shalt come to our holie Pryor, Packe-man,
And hee perhaps will buy all on thy backe, man:
And teach thee better how to pray than anie,
For such an holie man there are not manie.
Bee here to morne, just betweene sixe and seaven,
And thou wilt finde thy selfe halfe way to Heaven.
Packe-man.
Content, said hee, but there is some-thing more,
I must haue your opinion in before:
In-case the holie Pryor haue no leasure,
To speake of everie purpose at our pleasure,
There was but one tongue at the birth of Abel,
And manie at the building vp of Babel:
A wicked worke, which God would haue consounded.
But when Christ came, all tongues againe resounded,
To build His Church, by His Apostles teaching.
Why not in praying, as well as in preaching?
Since praying is the true and full perfection,
Of holie service: Saving your correction.
So if our Lord to mine owne tongue bee readie,
What neede I then with Latine trouble our Ladie?
Or if both in my prayers must bee in,
I pray thee tell mee at whom to begin?
And to pray joyntlie to them both as one,
Your Latine prayers then are clearelie gone:
For PATER NOSTER never will accord
With her: nor AVE MARIE with our LORD.
If I get him, what neede I seeke another?
Or dare hee doe nothing without his Mother?
And this (Sir Iohn) was once in question,
Disputed long with deepe digestion;
Whether the Pater Noster should bee sayde,
To God, or to our Ladie, when they prayde?
When Master Mare of learn'd diversitie;
Was Rector of our
Of Sainct Andrewes.
Vniversitie,They sate so long, they cooled all their Kaile,
Vntill the Master Cooke heard of the Tale:
Who lyke a mad man ranne amongst the Clergie,
Crying with manie a Domine me asperge:
To giue the Pater Noster to the Father,
And to our Ladie giue the Avies rather.
And lyke a Welsh-man swore by great Sainct Davies,
Shee might content her well with Creedes and Avies.
And so the Clergie fearing more confusion,
Were all contented with the Cookes Conclusion.
Priest.
Packe-man, this Tale is coyned of the new.
Packe-man.
Sir Iohn, I'll quite the Packe, if 't bee not true.
¶ Againe, Sir Iohn, yee learned Monks may reade,
How Christ Himselfe taught vs of His owne head:
That everie soule that was with sinne opprest,
Should come to Him, and Hee would giue them rest.
Come all to Mee (sayth Hee) not to another.
Come all to Mee (sayth Hee) not to My Mother.
And if I doe all as the Lord commanded,
I hope her Ladiship will not withstand it.
And so, Sir Iohn, if I should speake in Latine,
Vnto the Lord at Even-song, and at Matine,
And never vnderstand what I were saying,
Thinke yee the Lord would take this for true praying?
No, that yée cannot: for yée may consider,
My tongue and heart should pray to God together.
¶ And héerevpon yée shall heare what befell,
To certaine Clerkes, that Latine well could spell:
With whome by chance I lodged at an Inne;
Where an olde Wyfe vpon a Rocke did spinne.
And towardes evening shee fell to, and prayde:
But neither they, nor I, knew what shee sayde.
One sayde, the Carling counterfets the Canting.
Another sayd, It's but the Matrons manting.
Some call'd it Gibbers, others call'd it Clavers.
And still the Carling speakes, and spinnes, and slavers.
Now, good Sir Iohn; what thinke yee of this hussie?
Where was her heart, when her hands were so busie?
In ende, one saide, Dame, wot yee what yee say?
No, not, sayeth shee, but well I wot I pray.
Yee pray, sayd hee, and wots not what, I grant:
Alace, how can yee bee so ignorant?
The Matron musing little at the motion,
Sayde, Ignorance is Mother of Devotion
Then Dame, sayd hee, if Ignorance bee the Mother,
Darkenesse must bee the Daughter, and none other.
Prayde yee, sayde hee, when all the time yee span?
What recke of that? sayth shee, God's a good Man,
And vnderstands all that I say in Latine:
And this I doe at Even-song and at Matine.
Alace, Sir Iohn, was not this Wyfe abused,
Whose soule and senses all were so confused?
You know these vnknowne tongues can profite no man:
And one tongue is enough for anie VVoman.
But when one prayes in true sinceritie,
As God commandes, in Sprite and Veritie;
The heart sends vp the Tongue as Messenger,
Vnto the Lord a pleasant Passenger.
Priest.
But, Packe-man, heere's a prettie little Booke,
Where-in if thou wilt listen for to looke;
Set out by a true Catholicke Divine,
And out of doubt will settle thine ingine.
Fayth, reade it, Packe-man, for it is but little.
Printed 1623.
The Gadge of the new Gospel, is its Title.Hee clearelie prooues, by
Luke, 1. 9. 10.
Zacharies exemple,When hee did sacrifice (Within) the Temple,
And all the people stoode and prayde (Without)
They knew not then what tongue hee spake, no doubt.
Ergo, the Messe may both bee sayde and sung,
In other language than in Mother-tongue.
Packe-man.
Sir Iohn, I see your holie Catholicke,
Vpon the Trueth hath put a prettie tricke.
Of A [...]
Haue yee not heard this Proverbe oft tymes sounded,Homo qui male audit, male rotundit?
So if the people heard not what hee sayde,
How could they know in what language hee prayde?
Since vnderstanding commeth by the eare,
Hee cannot vnderstand that doth not heare.
Or how prooues this, that Zacharie the Priest,
Spake Latine, then, the language of the Beast?
Were anie Liturgies vnder the Law,
But in that tongue that all the Iewes did know?
What ever hee spake, himselfe sure vnderstood it:
And so, your Catholicke hath ill concluded:
Because a learned Priest may pray in Latine,
And mumble over his Even-song, Messe, and Matine.
Ergo, a Packe-man to the Lord may pray,
And never know a syllabe hee doth say.
For when yee put mee to my Pater Noster,
I seeke an Egg, and yee giue mee an Oster.
And so, Sir Iohn, I haue given you a Wadge,
That's good enough for your Now Gospels Gadge.
¶ Last: since wee say that God is good to speake to,
Who will both heare our Text, and heare our eeke to:
What if Hee answere mee in Latine tongue;
Where-in I pray, and where-in Messe is sung?
I must say, Lord, I wot not what Thou sayest;
And Hee'll say, Foole, thou wo [...]st not what thou prayest.
Even, Lord, say I, as good Sir Iohn did teach mee.
Sir Iohn, sayth Hee, a Priest vnmeete to preach Mee:
Or in your meshant mouthes once for to name Mee;
with different tongues & hearts. Such Iocke such
So was the Packe-man named.
Iamie.For tho I know moe tongues than yee can tell,
False Knaues, should yee not vnderstand your sell?
Gaue I you not a tongue as well as heart,
That both to Mee should play an afolde part?
But lyke two double Devils yee haue dissembled.
At this Sir Iohn hee quaked, and hee trembled,
And sayde, Good Packe-man, thou art so quicke witted,
Vnto the Pryor all must bee remitted.
¶ And so the Packe-man past vnto his Lodging,
Having with-in his heart great griefe and grudging.
Some-tymes hee doubted, if the Monkes were men,
Or Monsters: for his lyfe hee could not ken.
Hee sayde, Sir Iohn was a faire fat fed Oxe.
Some-tyme hee thought hee looked lyke Iohn Knoxe.
But Knoxe was better verst into the Byble;
A studie that Sir Iohn helde verie ydle.
They diue not deepe into Divinitie,
And trouble them little with the Trinitie:
And are more learned in the Legendarie,
In lyues of Saincts, and of the Ladie Marie.
The onelie Idole they embrace and kisse a,
Is to proue servants vnto Mistresse Missa.
With such conceites the Packe-man past the night,
With little sleepe, vntill it was day light.
¶ And by the peepe of day hee earelie rose,
And trimd him fynelie in his holie dayes Hose:
And to Sir Iohns owne Chamber straight hee went;
Who was attending. So with one assent,
They hyed them to the Pryor both in haste;
To whom Sir Iohn began to giue a taste,
Of all the Questions that had past amang them.
Hee call'd them Heretickes, both, and vowd to hang them.
With that the Packe-man hurled throw the Closter,
And there hee met with an ill favourd Foster:
Who quickelie twind him, and all on his backe:
And then hee learnd to pray, Shame fall the packe:
For if they haue not fred mee of my sinne,
They sende mee lighter out, than I came in.
And still hee cryde, Shame fall both Monks and Frayers,
For I haue lost my Packe, and learnd no Prayers.
So farewell Ave, Creed, and Pater Noster:
I'll pray'n my Mother-tongue, and quyte the Closter.
FINIS,
QVOD SIS.
E R