Anſ. That I ſuppoſe this to be the Argument not of the preſent, but of looſe witted times before the Parliament, where ſome politike Biſhop, or Dr. Ignorant Univerſity man, or knave Poet would endeavour by ſuch a ſuggeſtion to the people to miſguide their credulous hearts into hatred of thoſe good men, who they knew to be the conſtant enemies to their deluſions: but let all men now have other thoughts, and aſſure themſelves that the Browniſt and Anabaptiſt are rationall examiners of thoſe things they hold for truth, milde diſcourſeres, and abe to give an account of what they they beleive; they who are unſatisfied in that particular, may, if they pleaſe to viſite their private Congregations which are open to all commers, have further ſatisfaction; perhaps here and there amongſt them may be a man that out of his zeale and earneſtnes for that which he eſteemes truth, may outrune his underſtanding, & ſhew many weakneſſes in his diſcourſe, I would the like frailty and inabilities were not to be found in many of us; but if the ſlips and wanderings of a few, and thoſe the weakeſt, be an Argument ſufficient to diſcountenance the Separation, and worke them out of the worlds favour, I pray God the ſame Argument may never be made vſe of againſt us; amongſt whom, many, and they not eſteemed the weakeſt neither, would give great advantages that way: In the mean time I wiſh with all my heart we could all put on the ſpirit of meeknes, and rather endeavour to rectifie by argument and perſwation one anothers infirmities, then upbraid the owners of them with a viſible rejoycing that ſuch things are ſlipt from them to their diſadvantage.

One Cuſtome they have amongſt them which doth make even the generality of them able arguers in defence of their way, and that is either an uſe of objecting againſt any thing delivered amongſt them, or propoſing any doubt, whereof any deſires to be reſolved, which is done in a very orderly manner, by which meanes the weakeſt becomes in a ſhort time much improved, and every one able to give an account of their Tenets, (not relying upon their Paſtors, as moſt men in our congregations doe) which may ſerve to remove the objection, and put us to conſider, whether the like cuſtome be not wanting amongſt us.

2. Reaſ. The uncertainty of knowledg in this life: no man, nor no ſort of men can preſume of an unerring ſpirit: 'Tis knowne that the Fathers, Generall Councells, Nationall Aſſemblies, Synods, and Parliaments in their times have been moſt gloſly miſtaken: and though the preſent times be wiſer then the former, being much freed from ſuperſtition, and taking a larger liberty to themſelves of examining all things, yet ſince there remaines a poſſibility of errour, notwithſtanding never ſo great preſumptions of the contrary, one ſort of men are not to compell another, ſince this hazard is run thereby, that he who is in an errour, may be the conſtrainer of him who is in the truth.

Ob. But unity and uniformity in Religion is to be aimed at, and confuſion above all things to be avoyded, by Toleration new Opinions will every day breake forth, and to the ſcandall of the Nation, we ſhall become a very monſter in matters of Religion, one part being Presbyter, another Anabaptiſt, Browniſt another, and a fourth an Independent, and ſo divers according to the diverſity of opinions that are already, or may be broached hereafter.

Anſ. I anſwer, that in truth this objection appeares ſpecious at the firſt gloſſe, and therfore is very moving upon the people, which the Biſhops well knew, whoſe it was, and taken up as the faireſt pretence for the ſuppreſſion of thoſe, who it is to be feared, will prove the ſuppreſſors. For anſwer whereunto I averre, that a compulſion is of all wayes the moſt unlikely to beget unity of mind, and vniformity in practice, which experience will make evident. For,

The Fines, Impriſonments, Pillories, &c. uſed by the Biſhops as meanes to unite, rather confirmed men in their judgments, and begot the abomination and odium which theſe times have caſt upon the Hierarchie, being in the worſt kind tyrannicall, as endeavouring by the puniſhment of the perſon, the bowing and ſubjecting of the Conſcience. And if it be it inſtanced, that ſome there were that turned with the wind, and were terrified by feare of puniſhment into a compliance. I anſwer, that ſuch men are ſo farre from being examples to be followed, that they may more juſtly be condemned for weather-cokes fit (to be ſet up for men to know which way blowes the wind) of favour delicacy, eaſe and preferment.

Secondly, The conſcience being ſubject only to reaſon (either that which is indeed, or ſeems to him which hears it to beſo) can only be convinced or perſwaded thereby, force makes it runne backe, and ſtrugle; it is the nature of every man to be of any judgment rather then his that forces. 'Tis to be preſumed, that tis upon ſome good grounds of reaſon that a man is of that Iudgement whereof he is. Wouldeſt thou have him be of thine? ſhew him thy grounds, and let them both worke, and ſee which will get the victory in his underſtanding. Thus poſſibly he may change his mind, and be of one judgment with thee: but if you will uſe Club Law, inſtead of convincing and uniting, you arme men with prejudice againſt you, to conclude that you haue no aſſurance of truth in you, for then you would make uſe of that, and preſume of the efficacy thereof, and not fight with weapons which you (doe or at leaſt ſhould) know not to be the weapous of truth. But I feare there is ſomething more in it: I cannot thinke that the Biſhops in their times vſed ſo many ſtratagems of vexation and cruelty againſt good people, to gaine them to be of their mind, they could not be ignorant that they ſet the Nonconformiſts of all ſorts thereby at an irreconcilable hatred againſt them. No, there end rather was this, They had conſulted who were oppoſite to their deſignes, and finding the Puritane and Sectary ſo to be, their intereſt was by all poſſible meanes to ſuppreſſe them, that ſo they might without oppoſition trample upon the people. And therefore in theſe times men ſhould conſider what they doe. For if they who have the publique countenance doe beare them elves after the ſame manner towards the Anabaptiſts and Browniſts, or whatſoever other ſect there is, or may be, that cannot comply with them in judgement or practice (as by their beginnings we feare they will) what can we judge of them but that their ends and intentions are the ſame with the Biſhops? For by their fruits (ſaith our Saviour) ye ſhall know them: we may be deceived by words their turnings and contextures are ſo inſinite, that they may be framed ſo, as to make the worſt ſeeme good. The actions of men are the beſt rules for others to judge them by. Now upon view of the actions of the Divines that are now in favour, men doe ſpeake very ſtrangly, ſome ſay the tyrannie over conſcience that was exerciſed by the Biſhops, is like to be continued by the Presbiters: that the oppreſſours are only changed, but the oppreſſion not likly to be removed. Others ſay, that the Anabaptiſt and Browniſt are like to find harder maſters, for that the Biſhops made the puniſhment of them a matter of ſport and profit to themſelves, and reſerved their puniſhments to be diverſions of the peoples mindes from taking too much notice of their intrenchments upon the lawes and common liberty, ſuffering their ſocieties notwithſtanding to remaine, though ſo low and dejected that they were paſt feare of them. But the Presbiters, as it is conceived, will be more violent, as ſlaves uſually are when they become maſters: and thus talke not onely the Anabaptiſt and Browniſt and Antinomian (being cheifly in danger) but other the moſt moderate and ingenious meu, that are not ſwayed by the Divines intereſt.

They ſay too, that as it is not juſt, ſo neither is it politike, that in the beginnings and firſt riſe, when the Divines are but laying the foundation of their greatneſſe, wealth, and ſway over the peoples conſciences, and twiſting their intereſt inſenſibly with the Parliaments, that in the in fancy of their tyrannie they ſhould carry themſelves ſo high and preſumptuous as they doe over other men, ſhewes that their wiſedome here comes ſomewhat ſhort of the Serpents, or elſe that they are ſo impatient at the not compliance of other men, that they break, out euen againſt their owne intereſt. Nay ſome ſay further, that they did well indeed in being ſo zealous againſt the Biſhops, thoſe Drones and Caterpillers of the Commonwealth, in making deſervedly odious to the people their oppreſſive Courts? Fines, Cenſures, and Impriſonments. But they begin to fear thatſome bad ends of their owne were aimed at herein, and not ſo much the liberty of the people, as that they might get up into the Chaire and become to them inſtead of a Lord Biſhop, a ruling Presbytery, which they feare will bring in more rigidneſſe and auſterity, no leſſe ambition and domination then the former.

And the reaſon they have to feare, is, becauſe our Divines have not dealt clearely with us in many particulars, but continue cert • ine intereſts of the Biſhops, which they find advantagious to advance their honour & eſteeme with the people and have entered already into many of their ſteps, which in them at firſt they did ſeem ſo much to abomin • te. That the intereſt only of the Biſhop in particular, and of that ſort of Prelates is exploded; but the generall intereſts of the Clergie, whereby another Prelacy may be erected, and the myſtery of the Divines maintained in credit amongſt the people, is ſtill with all art and induſtry preſerved. I will take the paines both to tell you what thoſe generall intereſts are, and what in reaſon may be ſaid againſt them.

I. Their firſt intereſt is to preſerve amongſt the people the diſtinction concerning Government of Ecclefiaſticall and Civill, though upon conſideration it will be found that two Governments in one Common-wealth hath ever been, and will ever prove inconſiſtent with the peoples ſafety: The end of Government being to promote virtue, reſtraine vice, and to maintaine to each particular his owne, one ſort of Government which we call the Civill, either is ſufficient, or by the wiſedome of the Parliament may be made ſufficient for theſe ends. At the beginning of this Parliament it was confeſſed, that it was both too burdenſome for the Divines, and too bazardous for the State, that they ſhould bee truſted with any thing of Government, their preaching and inſtructing the people being, if well diſcharged, ſufficient to take up the whole man. But the times change, and the men with them; the deſigne is feaſible, and it muſt now againe be thought neceſſary that the Divines ſhould have a ſtroake in the Government, and therefore that diſtinction is againe maintained, which being taken up at firſt by proud Church-men for ambitious ends, is ſtill continued for ends though not in every thing the ſame, yet differing (I feare me) rather in the degrees than nature of them, we cannot tell what elſe to thinke of it, but that finding our Divines aiming at authority and juriſdiction, have judged it moſt politicke to gaine a preheminence, (leſſe ſtately and pompous, but) altogether as imperious and awfull over men as the former, which becauſe it is not ſo gariſh outwardly as the Biſhops, they may preſume will therefore be the eaſier admitted, and prove of longer continuance.

II. The ſecond intereſt of the Divine, is to preſerve amongſt the people the diſtinction of Clergie and Laity, though not now in thoſe termes, becauſe they have been unhappily diſcovered. The Scriptures ſo evidently makeing the people Gods Clergy by way of diſtinction from the Miniſters, 1 Pet. 5. 3. but never the Miniſters by way of diſtinction from the people. And then for Laity, a people (as the word ſignifies) I hope the Miniſters are ſuch as well as any others. Well, the diſtinction by words is not ſo materiall, as a reall diſtinction with their intereſt is to preſ •• ve. They would not have us to thinke that a Miniſtter comes to be ſo, as an other man comes to be ſo, as an other man comes to be a Merchant, Bookeſeller, Taylor, &c. either by diſpoſall of him by his friends in his education, or by his owne making choyce to be of ſuch a Trade: no, there muſt be ſomething ſpirituall in the buſineſſe, a Iure Divino muſt be brought in, and a ſucceſſion from the Apoſtles, and even as ſome would have us thinke Kings to be annoynted of God, becauſe the Iſraelitiſh Kings were by his command, ſo we are made to beleive, that becauſe the Apoſtles were ordained by God to be Teachcers of the people, and endued with guifts for that end; that therefore there is a like divine, though ſecret ordination from God in making of our Miniſters, and ſpirituall guifts & qualifications thereunto: Becauſe otherwiſe, if the people did not beleive ſo, they would examine all that was ſaid, and not take things upon truſt from the Miniſters, as if whatſoever they ſpake, God ſpake in them: they would then try all things, and what they found to be truth, they would embrace as from God, for God is the Authour of truth; what they found to be otherwiſe, they would reject, and then for the moſt part they might ſpare their nothings and repetions too, unleſſe the more to diſcover the groundleſneſſe of the doctrine, and the giddineſſe of the doctrine, and the giddineſſe of the Divinity which they generally heare. They would then handle their Miniſters familiarly, as they doe one an other, ſhaking off that timorouſneſſe and awe which they have of the Divines, with which they are ignorantly brought up. He that bade us try all things, and hold faſt that which was good, did ſuppoſe that men have faculties and abilities wherewithall to try all things, or elſe the counſell had beene given in vaine. And therefore however the Miniſter may by reaſon of his continuall exerciſe in preaching, and diſcourſing, by his daily ſtudy, and reading, by his skill in Arts and Languages, by the conceit of the eſteeme he hath with a great part of admiring people (in whom is truly fulfilled the prophecie of St. Paul, 2 Tim. 4. 3. 4. ) preſume it eaſie to poſſeſſe us, that they are •• re divine then other men (as they ſtyle themſelves) yet if the people would but take boldnes to themſelves and not diſtruſt their owne underſtandings, they would ſoon find that uſe and experience is the only difference, and that all neceſſary knowledge is eaſie to be had, and by themſelves acquirable: and that it is the Miniſters intereſt, their living depending thereupon, to frame long methods and bodies of Divinity, full of doubts and diſputes, which indeed are made of purpoſe difficult to attaine unto, that their hearers may be a lwyes learning, and never come to the knowledg of the trnth, begetting diſquiet and unſetledneſſe of mind, continuall controverſies, ſadneſſe, and many times deſperation: All which makes for them, for that upon all occafionsmen have recourſe to them for comfort and ſatisfaction, which how weake and ſhort ſoever it be in it ſelfe, muſt be currant, becauſe from them: the Keyes of the Church (a prerogative which our Saviour gave to his Apoſtles, ) they arrogate to themſelves, a new Authority they make mention of in their Sermons, which they call Miniſterial (though no ſuch thing belongs to them, nor is yet ſetled upon them, nor I hope ever will be) thus their intereſt is to make of themſelves a peculiar Tribe, of a nearer relation to God then other men: His more immediate Servants the Labourers in his Vineyard, the Co-workers with him, and all other titles they claime, given in Scripture to the Apoſtles, though neither for their abilities, much leſſe for their vertues or converſations, or in any other reſpect can be due unto them.

III. The third intereſt is to perſwade the people, that the Scriptures though we have them in our owne tongue, are not yet to be underſtood by us without their helpe and interpretation, ſo that in effect we are in the ſame condition with thoſe we have ſo long pitied, that are forbid to have the Scripturs in their own tongue: for 'tis all one not to have them in our own tongue, and to be made beleive, that we cannot underſtand them though we have them in our owne. Is the Cabinet open to us, and doe we yet want a Key? has ſo much labour been ſpent? ſo many Tranſlations extant, and are we yet to ſeeke? Let us argue a little with them: either the Scriptures are not rightly Tranſlated, or they are: If they are not, why have wee not beene told ſo all this while? why have wee beene cheated into errours? If they are rightly Tranſlated, why ſhould not Engliſhmen underſtand them? The Idiomes and properties of the Hebrew, and Greeke Languages, which ſome ſay, cannot word for word be expreſt in Engliſh, might all this while have beene Tranſlated into as many Engliſh words as will carry the ſence thereof. There is nothing in the Hebrew or Greeke but may be expreſt in Engliſh, though not juſt in ſo many words (which is not materiall) ſo that it muſt be confeſt, that either we have not beene fairly dealt withall hitherto in the conveyance of the Scripture, (a thing which few dare ſuſpect) or elſe the Scriptures are as well to be underſtood by us, as by any Linguiſt whatſoever.

Well, notwithſtanding all this how evident ſoever it be, a great part of us people doe beleeve juſt as they would have vs, and therefore ſilly men (as we are) in caſe of doubt to them we goe to be reſolved: and hereby is maintained the neceſſity and excellency of learning, and the Languages, and ſo of Univerſities, and a ſuppoſall that the arts likewiſe are of neceſſity to a Divine: ſeven yeares at leaſt are allotted for the attaining thereof, to fit and diſpoſe men for the ſtudy of Divinity, the Arts being, as they ſay, handmaids and preparations to Theologie. But I heare wiſe men ſuſpect all this, and ſay, that the Divines of what ſort ſoever, have other ends in urging all theſe things to be of neceſſity.

Firſt, they have hereby made it a difficult thing to be a Miniſter, and ſo have engroſſed the trade to them ſelves, and left al other men by rcaſon of their other profeſſions in an incapacity of being ſuch in their ſenſe.

And therefore, Secondly, if any doe take upon them their profeſſion without Univerſity breeding and skill in the Arts and Languages (how knowing a man ſo ever he be otherwiſe) they have faſtened ſuch an odium in the hearts of moſt of the people againſt him, that a theif or murderer cannot be more out of their favour then he. Thirdly, they being furniſhed with theſe Arts and Languages, have a mighty advantage over all ſuch as have them not, & care admirers therof, (as moſt men are) ſo that hereby they become maſters of all diſcourſes, and can preſently ſtop the peoples mouthes, that put them too hard. to-it, by telling them that it is not for Lay-men to be too confident, being no ſchollers, & ignorant of the Originall; That the Originall hath it otherwiſe then our Tranſlations: And thus they keep al in a myſtery, that they only may bee the Oracles to diſpence what, & how they pleaſe: ſo that this third intereſt is of much concernment to them.

I know what the ſcruple of moſt men wilbe, in reading of this laſt particulars almoſt all wilbe the Divines Advocate for Learning, & have him in great hate & deriſion, that is an enemy thereto. For as Diana was, ſo is Learning thoſe Crafts-mens living & the peoples goddeſſe. However, I will make no Apologie for my ſelfe, but deſire, that every man would give his reaſon ſcope, boldly to examine, what it is, what good the World receives from it, whether the moſt learned, or unlearned men have been the troublers of the World. How preſumptfious and confident the learned Scribes, Prieſts, and Doctors of the Law were, that they beſt underſtood the Scriptures: How the po • re unlearned Fiſhermen and Tent-makers were made choyce of for Chriſts Diſciples and Apoſtles, before any of them: How in proceſſe of time they that tooke upon them to be Miniſters, when they had acquired to themſelves the myſterie of Arts and Learning, & confounded thereby the cleare ſtreames of the Scripture, and perver • ed the true Goſpell of Jeſus Chriſt, and by politicke Gloſſes, and Comments introduced an other Goſpell ſutable to the covetous, ambitious, and perſecuting ſpirit of the Clergie (which their eſteeme with the people made authentick) they then began to ſcorne the ſimplicity and meaneſſe of the Apoſtles, to call that the Infancy of the Church, and to engroſſe great Livings, Lordſhips, Territories and Dominions; to embroyle States in warres, to ſupplant one an other and divert the people from the proſecution of their owne intereſt, (which is their ſafety and libertie) to maintaine their quarrells, and erect that Government the then riſing part of them could agree upon. So that the Preiſts and Miniſters of Chriſtendome (though others have the name) yet they are indeed the Lords and leaders thereof, as at preſent by Englands ſad experience may evidently appeare: For I would have all wiſe men conſider, ther the party who are now in armes to make us ſlaves, conſiſts not cheifly of ſuch as have had eſteeme for the moſt learned Arts men in the Kingdome; or of others, (who if not learned themſelves) are admirers of ſuch as are. Yea, to examine whence moſt of the warres of Chriſtendome have ſprung, and whether theſe artif • ciall Clergie men have not been the cheife cauſers and ſtill are the grand Incendiaries of our preſent miſeries which threaten our utter ruine, and although the Epifcopall Clergie pretend to ſtrive for the Regall Prerogative on the one ſide, and the Presbiterian Prelacy for Reformation, and the Liberty of the Subject on the other ſide; yet both of theſe mainely in •••• their owne reſpective profits, and advancements; ſo that which ſ • de ſoever prevaile (if ſuch may 〈1 page duplicate〉 〈1 page duplicate〉 have their wills (both aiming at their own greatneſſe and Dominion over the conſciences of their Brethren) extreameſt miſerie, and baſeſt kind of ſlavery will unavoydably follow; whilſt each of them by all ſlye inſinuations and cunning contrivances ſeeke to obtaine authority to compell the whole Nation to be ſubject to their doubtfull, yea groundleſſe determinations, which of all other is the greateſt and worſt ſort of oppreſſion and tyranny. The people may, if they pleaſe, dote upon that which ever hath been, and will be their deſtruction: It would be more ſafe for them (I am ſure) to diſtinguiſh of Knowledge, and to reject what is uſeleſſe (as moſt of that which hath hitherto borne the name of learning, will upon impartiall examination prove to be) and eſteeme that only which is evidently uſefull to the people; to account better of them that having no by-ends or reſpects, have ſtudied the the Scriptures for their owne and others information, and doe impart the ſame to the people out of a deſire of their good, for nothing, (as the Anabaptiſts doe to their Congregations) than of ſuch men as uſe all meanes to augment their tythes and profits, who being rich and abundantly provided for, yet exact them from poore poople, even ſuch whoſe very bellies can hardly ſpare it; whoſe neceſſities ought to be releeved by them, and not the fruite of their labours ſo unreaſonably wreſted from them, as oft it is, and the ſame ſo ſuperfluouſly ſpent, or ſo covetouſly hoarded up, as for the moſt part is knowne to be. When they commend Learning, it is not for Learnings ſake, but their owne; her eſteeme gets them their Livings and preferments; and therefore ſhe is to be kept up, or their Trade will goe downe. Have a care therefore O yee Clergie,, as you eſteem your honour and preferment, your profit and obſervance, that you keep this Diana of yours high in the peoples eſteem: Rouze up your ſelves, and imagine ſome new wayes to quicken the admiration of this your Goddeſſe; for I can aſſure you, mens eyes begin to open, they find that ſhe is not ſo beautifull as ſhe once ſeemed to be; that her luſtre is not naturall, but painted and artificiall: Beſtirre your ſelves, or your Diana will downe. But why ſhould I excite you, who I know are too induſtrious in the preſervation of your owne intereſts.

Divers other intereſts they have plied, as to make themſelves the only publike ſpeakers, by which meanes whome, and what they pleaſe they openly condemne, cry up, or cry downe, what makes for or againſt themſelves: There they brand men with the name of Hereticks, and faſtren what errours they thinke are moſt hatefull to the people, upon thoſe men they purpoſe to make odious: There they confute all opinions, and boldly they may doe it, for as much as no liberty of reply or vindication in publike is allowed to any, though never ſo much ſcandalized by them. And that men may not vindicate themſelves by writing, their next intereſt is to be Maſters of the Preſle, of which they are lately become by an Ordinance for licenſing of Bookes, which being intended by the Parliament for a good & neceſſary end (namely) the prohibition of all Bookes dangerous or ſcandalous to the State, is become by meanes of the Licencers (who are Divines and intend their owne intereſt) moſt ſerviceable to themſelves ſcandalous Books being ſtill diſperſt) in the ſtopping of honeſt mens writings, that nothing may come to the Worlds view but what they pleaſe, unleſſc men will runne the hazard of impriſonment, (as I now doe) ſo that in publike they may ſpeake what they will, write what they wil, they may abuſe whom they will, and nothing can be ſaid againſt them: well may they preſume of making themſelves Maſters of the people having theſe foundations laid, and the people generally willing to beleive they are good. I might proceed, to ſhew what uſage wiſe men expect from their Government, being once eſtabliſht how rigid and auſtere ſome thinke they will prove, countenancing no recreations but what themſelves are addicted to: how covetous others deem them, obſerving that they have more regard to the Benefice then the people, and doe uſually change and ſhift upon proffer of a better Parſonage. Some ſay that they are a people ſicke of the Phariſes diſeaſe, they love to ſit upermoſt at feafts, & to be reverenced in publike places, that their reſpects towards men are as they are rich and benef • ciall to them, and that a pore man can hardly obtaine a viſite, though at the time when the world couceives there is greateſt neceſſity of it: that they'hover about dying men for their Fee, and hope of Legacy, & many other things are commonly talked of them, which becauſe I ſuſpect to be true I will ſet myſelf hereafter more narrowly to obſerve.

The Objection wereupon all this (I hope) neceſſary digreſſion is built, was that men may be compelled (though again •• conſcience) to what the Synod or preſent Miniſtery ſhall conclude to be good, and agreable to Cods Word, becauſe unity and uniformity in the Church is to be endeavoured. To which I further

Anſ. Anſwer, That to ſorce men againſt their mind and judgment, to belecive what other men conclude to be true, would prove ſuch tyranny as the wicked P • oc • uſ • es (mentioned by Plutarch) practiſed, who would fit all men to one Bed, by ſtretching them out that were too ſhort, and by cutting them ſhorter that were too long. If we beleive as the Synod would have us, what is this but to be brought into their miſerable condition that muſt beleive as the Church beleives, and ſo become, (as ſaid an honeſt man, not the Diſciples of Chriſt, but of the Synod?

3. Reaſ. The third Reaſon for Liberty of Conſcience is grounded upon theſe foundations, that whatſoever is not of faith is ſin, and that every man ought to be fully perſwaded of the trueneſſe of that way wherein he ſervcth the Lord: upon which grounds I thus argue, To compell me againſt my conſcience, is to compell me againſt what I beleive to be true, and ſo againſt my faith; now whatſoever is not of faith is ſin; To compell me therefore againſt my conſcience, is to compell me to doe that which is ſinfull: for though the thing may be in it ſelfe good, yet if it doe not appeare to be be ſo to my conſcience, the practice thereof in me is ſinfull, which therefore I ought not to be compelled unto.

Againe I am counſelled by the Apoſtle to be perſwaded in my owne mind of the truth of that way wherin I ſerve the Lord; I am not therefore to be compelled to worſhip God in ſuch a way, of the juſtneſſe whereof I am not yet perſwaded, much leſſe in ſuch a way as is againſt my mind.

Ob. Nothing is more dangerous to a State, eſpeacially in theſe times, than diviſion and diſturbance by ſeverall wayes of Brethren which have encreaſed our miſeries, and therefore to avoyde diviſion they who wil not of their own accords comply, are for the quiet of the ſtate to be compelled and puniſhed.

Anſ. I Anſwer, that it is verily thought that the harſhneſſe only of this propoſition hinders that it is not yet put in execution, till time & cunning have fitted it for the people; for we are told in the laſt conſideration tending to diſwade from further gathering of Churches, that ſuffering is like to be the portion of ſuch as ſhall judge the right rule not to be delivered to them. A man would thinke that thoſe people that ſo lately were the ſufferers, the noyſe of whoſe exclamations againſt ſuch courſes, is ſcarce yet ont of the peoples eares, that they ſhould not ſo ſoone thinke of being the Tyrants. But to the Objection I anſwer, that the diverſity of mens judgments is not the occaſion of diviſion, becauſe the word diviſion hath reference to falling off from the Common cauſe. Now, though the provocations and incitements, againſt the Browniſts, and Anabaptiſts and ſome of the Independents have beene many, yet their affections to the Publike weale are ſo hearty in them, and grounded upon ſuch ſound principles of reaſon, that no aſſay of the Synod can make them ceaſe to love and aſſiſt their Countrey; and it is more then evident by the proſperity of our neighbours in Holland, that the ſeverall wayes of our brethren in matters of Religion hinder not, but that they may live peaceably one amongſt an other, and the Spaniard will witneſſe for them that they unite ſufficiently in the defence of their common liberties and oppoſition of their common enemies: Beſids, its very materiall to conſider, that it hath ever been the practice of thoſe that are countenanced by Authority to endeavor the ſuppreſſion of thoſe that are not: who is therefore in the fault? the quiet Separatiſt, who being perſwaded in his conſcience of the truth of that way he deſires to ſerve the Lord in, peeceably goes on to do his duty as he thinkes himſelfe bound to doe, or they who out of a lordly diſpoſition care not what injury they doe to others, though to the hazard of the Common-wealth, to advance themſelves and their government, they defame the Separation in their writings and Sermons, bid their poſelites beware of them, as of a dangerous and factious people, ſtoppe their mouthes, keep the Preſſe fom them, provoake them by all wayes poſſible, and then like the crafty Politian cry out upon them as the cauſers of diviſion.

I heare ſome men ſay, that it concernes the Miniſter ſo to doe, becauſe his living (depending upon his tythes and guifts) is the greater, the more rich and numerous his audience is; and therefore the Separa iſts are not to be ſuffered, who they find by experience draw many people after them, and though not the devout honourable women, nor the cheife men of the City, yet many whoſe number might much encreaſe the yearly revennue of the Miniſter, and therefore you muſt thinke it has concerned them to meet together, and to ſay amongſt themſelves,

Sirs, you know that by this our craft we have our wealth: moreover ye ſe & hear, that not alone at London, but in moſt parts of the Kingdom theſe Separatiſts have perſwaded & turnd away much peo ple, ſaying that our Miniſtry is no true Miniſtry, our Church, no true Church, our Doctrine in many things erronious, that our ſucceſſion from the Apoſtles is but a pretended thing, & as we our ſelves do derive it deſcended for many 100. yeares through the deteſtable Papacy & miſh Miniſtry, ſo that if theſe men be ſuffered our gaine, and the magnificence of the Miniſtery, wich not England only, but all Chriſtendome doth highly magnificence of the Miniſtery, wich not England only, but all Chriſtendome doth highly magnifie and reverence, would quickly downe:

For what other reaſon then this can be imagined, why the Separati on ſhould bee the eye-ſore of our Miniſters? It cannot be inſtanced in one particular whereby the Common-wealth receives prejudice from them: And then for the charge of Separating, for their maknig a Sciſme, which is endeavoured, to be caſt ſo heavily upon them:

I anſwer, That by reaſon of the Church of Romes corruptions, the Church of England did long ſince make a Sciſme from the Church of Rome, for which cauſe likewiſe many of the preſent Miniſters in lieve of the Antichriſtian domineering Biſhops thought it no robbery to make ſciſme from England; and even this Idolizing Synod, which though not yet upon her Throne, ſticks not to let her clients ſee ſhe ſayes in her heart; Behold I ſ • t a queen, I am no widdow, and ſhall ſee no ſorrow, Rev. 18. 7. May not I ſay this, Reverend Synod: if to be proceeded againſt by ſuch carnall ſandy principles, ſuch humane ordinances, by which the Separatiſts ſtand prejudiced, be legally found, to have made the greateſt and moſt tranſcendent ſciſme which England ever knew or heard of, ſince the Papiſtrie was diſcarded; If then the Separation have gon a little further, and not only with the Biſhops ſeparated from Rome, with the Miniſters from the Biſhops, but by reaſon of ſome corruptions ſtill remaining among the Miniſters, are by their conſciences necſſitated to ſeparate from them likewiſe: In all theſe ſeparations there was difference in judgment; the Biſhops differ in ſome things from Rome, our Miniſters from the Biſhops, and amongſt themſelves too, which differecnes by the Scriptures they cannot determine, as appeareth both by their writings and preachings, wherein with nuch vehemency they urge the ſame againſt other; of little force then will the major vote of a Synod be for the determining thereof, having ſo lately moſt notoriouſly diſcovered themſelves to be men-pleaſers and temporiſers, by crying downe the things which but yeſterday they ſo highly magnified in their Pulpits, and alſo practiſed with much devotion (at leaſt ſeemingly) and having withall their owne intereſts ſo much concerned therein (as is before in Part declared.) And further, knowing that the ſame perſons themſelves, and their Tenets, (as well as the opinions of Independents, Browniſts, and Anababtiſts, whom they oppoſe) doe ſtand condemned not by the major vote of divers Synods only, but by many generall Counſells alſo, (who are accounted to repreſent the whole Church upon Earth) no whit inferiour to them either in Arts or Learning, or any other qualification: Let it be then no wonder, nor ſo much as ſeem blameable hereafter, that the Separatiſts ſhould differ in ſome Opinions from this preſent Synod, ſince the Miniſters therein no little differ amongſt them ſelves, much more than ye • appeares, and will do ſo, while Sun and Moon endures untill we have courage and ſtrength enough to abandon all private intereſts and advantages.

All times have produced men of ſeverall wayes, and I beleive no man thinkes there will be an agreement of judgement as longe as this World laſts: If ever there be, in all probability it muſt proceed from the power and efficacie of Truth, not from conſtraint.

Objection. An Aſſembly of Divines, men that have imployed all their time in the ſtudy of Religion, are more likely to find out the truth, then other men, that have not ſo ſpent their time; who being now conſulting, what Doctrines, and what Diſcipline is moſt agreeable to the Word of God, it is but meet that all men ſhould waite their leaſure, till it be manifeſt what they ſhall produce.

Anſw. To this objection I ſay firſt, That they being now in conſultation, not for themſelves, but as they ſay, for the whole people; it is but reaſonable that they ſhould publiſh to the world whatſoever is in debate amongſt them, and invite every man to give them their beſt light and information, that ſo they may heare all voyces, and not conclude ought againſt mens judgments before it be heard what they can ſay for themſelves: This might peradventure be a meanes to find out all truth, and ſettle things ſo as that every man might be ſatisfied. You will ſay, that they conſider of all objections amongſt themſelves. I reply, that is not ſufficient, for 'tis a knowne caſe men are generally partiall to themſelves and their owne judgments, urging the weakeſt objections, and that but ſlightly: and it can give no ſatisfaction to men to have their cauſes pleaded by their Adverſaries.

Secondly, how palpable ſoever it appeare, that an Aſſembly of Divines are more likely to find out truth then other men; yet it is to be conſidered, that it will puzzle any man to inſtance when they did ſo. Beſides, grant it be more probable, yet it may be otherwiſe, and 'tis well knowne hath proved ſo. The Liturgie was by univerſall conſent approved, and by the Parliaments Authority authoriſed, particular men being for theſe many yeares averſe to it, and ſeparating from the publike Congregations becauſe of it: it now appeares who were in the right. How confident ſoever therefore the Divines (as they ſtyle them ſelves) are that they ſhall find out the right rule; yet ſince it may be, and hitherto hath been otherwiſe, it is but meet that they ſhould decree only for themſelves and ſuch as are of their owne mind, and allow Chriſtian Liberty to all their Brethren to follow that way which ſhall ſeem to them moſt agreable to truth.

Ob. But we are told in the Divines Conſiderations that all men muſt wait, otherwiſe the Parliament are like to be provoaked.

Anſw. J marry Sir, this is a good ſtrongue Argument, and ſpeakes home to us: I cannot blame the Separatiſts now for crying out, they feare your Club more then your Reaſon. I ſee what they might expect, if the ſword and authority were in your hand, your nine Conſiderations informes me, wherin are theſe two ſuppoſitions. Firſt, that the right rule may not be delivered us: And ſecondly, that then men may be called to ſ • ffer. It is a wonder to obſerve the wrethed condition of man, and his foule ingratitude: Is it ſo long ſince the yoakes were broaken off theſe mens necks, that they forget the burthen & injuſtice of them, or that aſſiſtance they had from their ſeparatiſt Brethren in breaking thoſe yoakes, that now ſo ſoone as they are got into reputation, they ſhould ſuppoſe a time of ſuffering for their brethren for doing what to them appeares to be their duty! Regard O God, ſince man is become thus forgetfull, take thy diſtreſſed Servants, the Separatiſts into thine owne pr • tection: Thou O Lord, that art the Judge of all the Earth, put into the hearts of the Parliament to doe right in this cauſe, and to ſuffer thoſe afflicted people no longer to endure reproach or moleſtation for doing of their duties.

Ob. But ſome may I beat the Aire all this while, there is no purpoſe in the Divines to force the conſcience, they are ſufficienily informed that, the conſcience cannot be forced, being in no wiſe ſnbject to compulſion, only it concerues them they ſay to prevent the grouth and encreaſe of errours, which cannot otherwiſe be done but by puniſhing thoſe that are the authors and maintainers of them, that ſo truth only may flouriſh, and the Goſpell with the Ordinances according to the true inſtitution of them, be maintained and practiſed by all the people of the Nation.

Anſw. I anſwer, that though it were certaine that what they eſteeme truth were ſo indeed, and that the true Goſpell and Ordinances were in every part and circumſtance of them that which they judge them to be: however, though they are earneſtly to endeavour by argument and perſwation to reduce all men to the ſame beleife • and practice with themſelves, yet thoſe that cannot be thereunto periwaded, they ought not by any meanes to puniſh, for the firſt and third Reaſons afore given. But then for the aſſurance of the Divines that their concluſions and Articles are certainly true, if it be built vpon certaine foundations, they need not avoyde the combate with any ſort of men of what opinion ſoever: Truth was uot uſed to feare, or to ſeeke ſhifts or ſtratagems for its advancement! I ſhould rather thinke that they who are aſſured of her ſhould deſire that all mens mouthes ſhould be open, that ſo errour may diſcover its foulnes and trueth become more glorious by a victorious conqueſt after a fight in open field; they ſhunne the battell that doubt their ſtrenght. Wiſe men are at a ſtand to ſee that whileſt the Preſſe was open no man undertooke the Anabaptiſts, and that now their adverſaries have bound their hands they begin to buffet them; what can they doe elſe but neceſſarily ſſupect that our Divines have not the truth, nor by any evidence thereof are able to make good their owne ſtandings or practices. To ſtop mens mouths or puniſh men for ſpeaking their mindes, was profitable indeed, and neceſſarie for the Biſhopes who had propoſed to themſelves ſuch endes as could endure no diſcourſe upon them, and framed ſuch conſtitutions, ceremonies and doctrines, as muſt be received without ſcanning, or elſe would appeare empty and groundleſſe. But that the reforming Clergy, that pretend to have truth in its ſimplicity, and the Goſpell in its purity, and ſeeme to abominate all by-endes or reſpects, ſhould yet take the ſame courſe of prohititions with the Biſhops, locke up the Preſſe, and then vent themſelves in a furious and (evidently) ſcandalizing way, as in their late preachings and Pamphlets againſt the Anabaptiſts, will make, I beleeve, all wiſe men ſuſpect that either they doubt their owne tenets, or know ſome groſſe errours amongſt themſelves, which yet their intereſts and profeſſions engage them to maintaine. To ſay they goe not about to compell the conſcience, which is uncapable of compu • ſion, but will only puniſh the perſon, is as if they were ſportfull in their cruelty, and ſhewes as if it proceeded from men ſetled, and long practiſed in tyranny, I could wiſh for Chriſtianity ſake they had more wiſedome then to play with mens afflictions: I profeſſe unto you, did I ſtill dote upon the perſons and ſeeming holyneſſe of our Miuiſters (as I have done) ſuch carriage as this I thinke would open mine eyes, and make me ſee they are not the men they ſeeme to be, that in ſo ſho • t • time can grow ſo wanton with their owne eſtate and preheminence, as to gibe and ſcoffe at their brethrens miſeries. Is it not a ſhame to our profeſſion, and ſcandall to our cauſe, that well affected men, reall, and irreconcileable enemies to tyranny, and our common Adverſaries, ſhould be neceſſitatd to leave their native Country, becauſe they can hope nothing from you, our Divines, but to be impriſoned or puniſhed for exerciſing their conſciences, though by their helpe you ſhould be ſetled in your liberties, I cannot tell what elſe to make of this for my part, but that you bad rather be ſlaves to the King, and hazard the freed me of the whole Nation, then that theſe men ſhould have freedome with you; yee may flatter your ſelves, that yee are rich in ſpirituall graces, and preſume that you are in the right, and have found out the truth of the Goſpell and Ordieances, but ſo long as yee want the maine evidences thereof, Love and lowlineſſe of mind, ſo long as yee propoſe dominion and the ſway over your Brethren, which our Saviour ſaid his followers ſhonld not doe, Matth. 20. 25. 26. Murke 10. 42. you muſt give men that are unwilling to be deceived leave to thinke that yee have yet but the forme and ſhew of Religion, but want the inward ſweetneſſe and moſt excellent fruites and effects thereof; I could wiſh I had no occaſion for ſpeaking thus much, but when ſores bigin to feſter, they muſt not be nouriſhed and ſwathed, but lanc'd and corraciv'd, 'tis no time to hide and excuſe mens imperfections, when they ſtrive to take roote for perpetuity. Were it in mine own cauſe, I could not ſpeak ſo much, but in halfe of ſuch a harmeleſſe people as I have found thoſe of the Separation to be, after much inquiry and examination of their Tenets, and practice, I thinke my ſelfe bound in conſcience to breke ſilence and become their advocate.

Ob. There is one Objection more againſt the Anabaptiſts in particular, and that is, that they allow not of Civill government and therefore not to be tolerated becauſe they hold an opinion directly deſtructive to the Common-wealth.

Anſ. Who ſaies they hold this opinion? why the Divines commonly in their Pulpits, and what ground have they for their ſo ſaying? They find it in bookes that they who have written of them affirme that they maintaine this opinion. But how if the ſocieties of Anabaptiſts in this Kinghome are moſt Zealous and rationall defenders of our Government? as to my knowledge they are, and that experience can teſtifie for them, that noe men have more forwardly and conſtantly then they aſſiſted the Parliament againſt thoſe that would diſolve our free governement, and bring in tyranny; how is it true then that the Anabaptiſts hold ſuch an opinion? O then they tell us that our Anabaptiſts are no Anabaptiſts: To what purpoſe then doe they exclaime againſt Anabaptiſts that have been of that opinion? (as they ſay) (though for my part I beleeve neither them, nor the books that tells them ſo) when they cannot but know, if they know any thing, that the Anabaptiſts which now are, be not of that opinion; why for this end and purpoſe, they reſolve to make the Anabaptiſts odious to the people, and nothing they thinke will ſooner doe it, then by making the people beleeve that they are the harbourers of ſuch an opinion as would diſſolve all ſocietie, and bring into confuſion the ſtate.

Now this they ſpeake of the Anabaptiſts in generall, knowing that the people will apply it to the Anabaptiſts in England, concerning whom how true it is▪ you may judge by that which followes.

The Anabaptiſts opinion concerning Government is, that the world being growne ſo vitious, and corrupt as it is, there can poſſibly be no living for honeſt men without Government: That the end of making Government, is the Peoples quiet and ſafety, and that whatſoever doth not conduce thereto is tyranny or oppreſſion & not government, That the Government of England is of all others that they know the moſt excellent, the people by their choſen men, being the makers & reformers therof: That therein the Parliament is the ſupreme power, and that the King is accountable to them for the not performance of his Office, as all other Officers of the Common-wealth are: That the Parliament only are the makers and alterers of Lawes for the regulation and ordering of the people: That of right they are to be called by thoſe Lawes they have made in that behalfe, and to diſſolve when they themſelves ſee good: that it is not at the Kings wil or pleaſure to ſigne or refuſe thoſe Bills the Parliament ſhall paſſe, but that he is of duty to ſigne them: That all great Officers and Majeſtrates of the Kingdome are to be choſen by them: That the King is to have his perſonall abode neer the Parliament, that they may have free conference with him at pleaſure touching the former diſcharge of his Office, or the preſent ſtate of the Common-wealth: That to Parliaments alone belong the diſpoſall of Shipping, Forts, Magazines, and all other the Kingdomes ſtrengths, both by Sea & Land: The making of peace & war, the preſſing of ſouldiers, the raiſing of monie for the preſerving or regaining the ſafety or freedome of the people, which for any other perſon to doe, is treaſonable. Theſe grounds & principles of our government they knowing, could not but ſee the exorbitances of the King, & whereto al his lawles courſes & deſignes tended, & therefore have not ignorantly (as perhaps others) but upon theſe grounds aſſiſted the Parliament, and will doe till the laſt.