Of the Relation it self.

IT is said, that an offence was taken, but non given at a Sermon preached by him on the publick Fast day. Ans. An offence may [Page 5] be given, and justly taken not onely at things unlawfull, but at things unexpedient. As for this particular case, the whole frame of the Prayer and Sermon was no way fit for a publick Fast, Con­fession of sin almost wholly omitted, the work of Humiliation disparaged, the Doctrine of Repentance, and Contrition or bro­kennesse of heart, as it is taught by our Ministers of the good old way of the Non Conformists, was condemned for Popery, al­though through many circumlocutions, mazes, and ambiguous tearms. An instance was given in an Allegory taken out of the Crums of Comfort, called A Remedy for a sin-sick Soul, and is inserted in the close of his Relation, which he hath tearmed a ridiculous and soul-killing Medicine. This Medicine was composed by an eminent Divine, and though it may be questioned whether it be sightly so to allegorize, yet it follows not that 'tis either ridicu­lous or soul-killing: and being devested of its party coloured coat to appear in proper and plain tearms, it will be found to carry no disproportion to the Analogy of Faith; Though he cals it rather the language of Rome then Canaan. But this was not that spark which was blown up into so great flame, but was onely an instance selected by him on purpose, because most easie as he con­ceived to be made odious. Neither was the Fast-Exercise the sole ground of the Controversie, but each Sermon increased the fire.

The first Charge is given in against Mr. Marshall, Mr. Holford, and my self for solliciting the Mayor to suspend his preaching. As for Mr Marshall whether he did so I know not, neither doth it much con­cern the businesse, but I must tell the world, that Mr. Bacon hath traduced this able, painfull, and godly Minister with a grosse un­truth, that he lived and preached among the Cavaleers. For he hath li­ved within three miles of Gloucester for many yeers before the War, and never removed from his own Charge, and whereas he had sometimes a weekly Lecture at Berkly, he discontinued it when that place was possessed by the Kings Forces. For my self I remember not that I made known any grievance to the Mayor concerning him, before he was publickly questioned: but I know assuredly that I never solicited that he might be suspended, nei­ther did I move one syllable against his second liberty of preach­ing obtained from the Governor, as I might easily have done. [Page 6] Besides, the Mayor sent for me to the Town Chamber at severall times complaining of this Man. And once meeting Mr. Bacon in the Tolsey I appealed to the Mayor, and others present, whether I had been his accuser. Mr. Holford is accused of labouring to keep in with both sides. This is one mans report; but thus much I can say for my Brother in the Ministery, that he was an open, and earnest opposer of Sectaries, and 'tis hard for me to conceive (let others judge) that a knowing man should seek reputation or ad­vantage by under-hand dealing, or comply with that party, whose spirits were imbittered against him.

His restraint being taken off, and he applying himself to clear the Doctrine of Repentance (though indeed he muzzled the truth thereof) he tels us, that one Wheeler set himself to take Notes of his Prayer and Sermon to stir up adversaries by giving information, which we are said to receive with all readinesse. What a remarkable and wor­thy passage, as if we had need of Spies to pry into that which was delivered before so many witnesses: or that one mans informa­tion were the ground of all the following trouble, which was raised by a generall complaint. But Mr. Wheeler professeth that he was once resolved not to hear him, having been at Gloucester for the space of three weeks before, but was perswaded thereto by the urgent importunity of many of Mr. Bacons followers: and he upon whose report this aspersion was grounded, hath since acknowledged before witnesse, that he had done Mr. Wheeler wrong. And the Sermon Notes, which were read at the first Con­ference Mr. Bacon acknowledged to be true. As for the Ministers readinesse to receive information, we acknowledge that we un­dervalued the businesse too much, and were blame-worthy in neglecting the truth and our selves.

He imputes to Mr. Holford, Mr. Hodges and my self the cause of his summons to the Covernors Chamber on the Lords day. Whereas it was concluded the day before by the Magistrates, when they had once thoughts of sending him out of Town without more ado. And of this I had not the least intimation, till the meeting was resolved upon, and the report thereof spread about the City, though he saith he never heard of it till the time came. And thus doth a veyn of Calumny run through the whole Relation.

He observes that he was sent for by a Souldier as a transgressour. [Page 7] What a triviall circumstance, and absurd collection? Is it not well known, that Souldiers under the Command of a principall Officer are like the Centurions Servants, who said to one come, and he cometh; to an other go, and he goeth; and to a third do this, and he doth it?

This meeting consisted of men of quality, common fellows were excluded, except some of his own party who were admitted by our consent; among whom a young preaching Pewterer.

An other Aspersion is cast upon the Ministers behaviour in time of the Conference, That they upbraided him with much unbeseeming and reproachfull language, rushing upon him with a torrent of evil words, till that unseemlinesse was remedied by the Governors command. This is a meer slander, having nothing of truth, and herein we can appeal to the Governors own testimony. A greater Acrimony might easily manifest it self in a serious Contest, but without bitter in­vectives; and if some did inveigh against Hereticks and Schis­maticks in generall, yet not against his person. Or if a stream of words might flow from divers men, the cause of it was his refu­sall of a positive Declaration. And if one man at that present had nothing to charge him withall, yet there were many Ministers, and the Controversie did not depend on the Judgement or mani­fest of one Man. And whereas he speaks of their laying heads toge­ther, let him know there were such men as scorned a Combina­tion, who walked not in the dark, and can offer themselves with much boldnesse to be judged by mans judgement, although he that judgeth us is the Lord.

But here is the main grievance which he labours to display, That not finding sufficient matter of accusation, we began to examine him upon certain interrogatories: against which he protested, because it favour­ed so strongly of the illegality of the High Commission Court. Wherefore to justifie our proceedings, we offer these things to be weighed by the judicious. Mr. Bacon was looked upon in the notions either of an Erroneous, or of an obscure, and ambiguous Preacher, not by reason of his profound; but his wavering and doubtfull Do­ctrine. First, he was considered as ambiguous, and therefore sus­pected and dangerous. Which appears in that he did alwayes pretend unto something extraordinary, beyond that which the people had been formerly taught, even concerning the substance [Page 8] of fundamentall Doctrine: every mindfull hearer took it for a new way, especially his own favourers, & then the tearms of le­gall Preachers, and Preachers of Christ began to be rolled upon every tongue. Besides, in the explication of any point, he would heap up an infinity of words passing to and fro in a constrained way, that one might easily beleeve, Male res agitur ubi opus est tot remediis. There was still an expectation of some great thing car­ried aloft in the Clouds, which a while after fell down in a plen­tifull showre of words. And in such a case who can blame the jealousie of a Minister; who must watch over the Flock, as one that must give an account of their souls? Insinuations of Errour slide into the minds of people, when the violent approach of cor­rupt opinions begets horror, and saves them by fear. Secondly, Mr. Bacon was lookt upon as an erroneous Preacher: some things are hinted already; and the rest are to be made known, when I come to discusse the Questions. Neverthelesse 'tis worthy obser­ving that he was more liberal in private then in publick, the my­steries were unvailed, imis penetralibus, because al was not thought fit for a promiscuous, and unprepar'd Auditory. One instance shal serve, which will be made good by approved testimony if need require. In private he disputed against habituall graces, not in the way of Argumentation, but according to his proper Judge­ment; but in publick such a designe must be carried on through a maze of intricate and perplexed words.

But we are charged in compelling Mr. Bacon to a self accusation, and therein with reviving the abolished tyrannie of the High-Commission. To this it is answered, that we did not require him to betray himself, nor to disclose any secret concerning him or his, that might make him obnoxious to any mulct or penalty. And had he refused to Answer, his danger was no more, then the scandall of his Doctrine. We did not assume a liberty of proposing Que­stions in infinitum, but such onely as immediately reflected upon his preaching, whereby we were scandalized; yea and such things as did arise out of his Sermons. And that not so much to know his opinion, as to lay down some ground-work upon which the debate might rest. Moreover, did ever any that were exami­ned by Authority (suppose of the Prelates) in the principles of Faith, account that Examination a Tyranny, or a means to [Page 17] ensnare them? Besides a Minister is bound to declare his judgement in the principal matters of Divine knowledge, if meerly desired by his fellow labourers, whensoever they are publikely offended, yea though unjustly. But there is more yet in this case. Mr. Bacon came as a stranger, and though he had the power of a ministeriall calling, yet he had neither power, nor call to exercise his ministery against the consent of the Magistrates and Ministers of that place where he so­journed, And it is provided by Order of Parliament in their Instru­ctions to the Committees of some counties, as in Sommerset-shire, that every Minister placed by them in any Sequestred living, shal un­dergo the examination of three Ministers in the same county. Thus much for the first meeting in the Governours Chamber.

The Questions were not propounded as we in our wisedoms (ac­cording to his phrase) thought meet; but as his preaching and pra­ctice did require. A Debate upon them was reserved for Wednes­day following, in that place where the Councel of War was wont to be held.

His tedious mention of many idle circumstances, I passe by, as unbeseeming a grave Relation. At the place appointed, Mr. Bacon brought in an Answer in writing to the ten Questions, as himself pleads, according to a former command. But he fails in the truth of the businesse: For an Answer in writing was not required, but a Verbal dispute; though it was thought meet that the Arguments ur­ged on both sides should be then written, that we might not lose our selves in a Chaos of words. The reading of his Paper, I un­dertook of my own accord; for the Governour intended a dispute, and then chalenged Mr. Bacon for refusing. I gave off reading in the midst, not (as he saith) because unwilling that the company should hear altogether; but partly, because I was tired with many tedious impertinencies, and longed to make answer; partly, because the bare reading of a large Paper, containing sundry things, could give no satisfaction to the people. Neverthelesse I examined his stating of the Questions one by one, by clear argument discovering his er­rours and nullities, to which he would give no answer, but referr'd all to his Paper, which was then Refuted. If there were confusion of language, that was caused by his obstinate silence. For who could endure so grosse a tergiversation, accompanied with a self-justification to the highest?

2. Master Bacon here and elsewhere complains of reproachful lan­guage from the M [...]nisters. But I must answer him, In generalibus versatur dolosus. Let him give an instance of such Reviling. I can justifie my self, neither do I remember any railing accusation that then fe [...]l from the mouth of a Minister. But if any of them did vehe­mently charge him with the shame of a self-baffle, shall that be call­ed reproach? Those Ministers are more ingenuous and of better spi­rits, then this R [...]later desires to render them. I could not observe, nor remember every passage that fell from those in Authority, or from the standers by. Neither do I justifie their threats, if there were any. But his person was no more endangered then ours, whatsoe­ver be may pretend or intimate. As for that Gentleman whom he reports to be of no mean command, though his Military-Office were not in the Garison, I can say little to his words what they were. He hath been an ancient professor of Religion, and of approved integrity. But if it be said that the people called him Bonner, it must be the greater part, or the better part, or at least a considera­ble part. But the speech of one Woman, he is pleased to attribute to the people. So greedily doth our opposite catch at every cir­cumstance, though strangely misrepresented. He addes, that besides divers Ministers, one a Cavalier openly jeered him. This is a malicious slander: let him name the persons. That Minister which was taken in arms against the Parliament, had voluntarily taken the Covenant, and therupon obtained his liberty: but he had no hand in the manage of this businesse, being a spectator onely: and for his open jeering, if it be true, as I question, others could not prevent that incivility.

In the close of this unweldy Conflict, a writing was drawn up, That Mr. Bacon had divulged certain erroneous Opinions, in which at a Conference he had given no satisfaction: The Auditors were to Sub­scribe if they pleased. But he declares, the reason of this Subscription was, to send him up to the Parliament or Assembly the next day. I pro­fesse that I knew not of any such thought, and am assured, that the Governour did not intend it; but I conceive that he grounds his as­sertion upon some wandring speeches scattered among the people: But this is the truth of the businesse; We have had great experience of the vain boastings of Sectaries, who to wound the Reputation of those that encounter them, proclaime a Victory and sing the Tri­umph, what ever the successe be. This was then feared from that [Page 19] Party; to prevent which mischief, a Subscription was then thought upon, and first hinted by a moderate man, no Minister, nor at that time a Magistrate. And to this none were compelled: onely, when we had a meeting, for satisfaction, we desired to know the opinion of the Auditors. And of those Six persons that refused to Subscribe, some pretended that they did not heare, others that they were not present at the whole Conference, one or two would give no rea­son: but none of them did avow to have received any satisfa­ction.

That the manner of our proceedings were generally complained of (as is related) and accounted neither Christian nor justifiable by the Law of civill Society, is a grosse calumny; and herein I appeale to the Inhabitants of that place. What one man, namely, M ^r Shepard, might in private acknowledge is nothing to our purpose. Thus much for the second meeting.

The Mayor with others are said to spend much time in perswa­ding him to depart the City: affirming, if he were the most Orthodox Preacher in England, he were not fit for Glocester. Thus they speak upon bare supposition. And the consequence drawn from hence is most absurd, namely, that an Orthodox Preacher should be a burden too heavy for Glocester to bear. If M ^r. Bacon supposed to be an Orthodox Preacher, be not fit for such a place, doth it therefore follow that no Orthodox Preacher is fit? Is Mr. Bacon and Orthodox Preacher con­vertible? Experience witnesseth, that not only Orthodox, but some good men may not be fit for some Congregations. Besides this thing doth assure us of his importunate contradiction, who would stay in a place where he had no interest, when the Magistrate desired his ab­sence, and perswaded his departure upon this ground, that he was not a man fit for Glocester. But he saith, He feared the desertion of his owne or rather Christs Cause. Answ. Is the Cause of Christ main­tained by a troublesome presence in despite of the Magistrate? Tis enough, that a man makes answer in a free confession and submits to the censure of Authority.

The Relation proceeds to the publicke Disputation; for which purpose there was an Order from the Governour directed to the se­verall Ministers to be read in the Pulpit, That if any doubted of the ap­provednesse of the proceedings in the two former meetings, satisfaction should be given in a more publicke way. This Order I received as I [Page 20] was going into the Pulpit, without the least intimation or thought thereof before, though the Dispute would rest upon me. The Gover­nour was moved hereunto not to terrifie Mr. Bacon as he doth im­ply in the expressions of his great thoughts of heart; But upon the advertizement of false Reports raised by his followers. Here as in many other places a heape of circumstances are brought in being more fit for an idle Romance, then a serious discourse.

The Governour, and Mr. Bromwitch of the Committee are said to engage themselves to protect him from slander and wrong, which the one heard, and the other saw he formerly sustained. He makes it the sense of the Governour that he had sustained wrong, which is knowne in Glocester to be a manifest untruth, and cannot be rationally concei­ved by any that knew that businesse.

He speaks of a Marshall standing at his elbow with a Halbert though he perceived it not, of purpose, if it might be to daunt him. I observed no such thing, standing opposite and likely to behold his attendance: the Governour protests against it; and to stand with a Halbert, is not a Marshal's posture. Besides, it was so much invisible, that Mr. Bacon observed it not, which could not well have been if any had stood there in terrorem. And is it not a childish conceit, that a Mi­nister should be terrified by a Marshal with a Halbert; and an explo­ded folly to blesse God for his assistance that he was not daunted thereby?

The way of the Dispute in general, was on this manner. I pro­posed the Questions; Master Bacon affirmed or denied, and read the stating of them: I read my written Reply, thence drawing concise Arguments, to which he made large Declarations. It seems we must give him leave to proclaim and glory that his Adversaries fell before him, to the great contentment and satisfaction of the believing and more sober-minded people. But it had been better that his neighbours mouth had praised him. Doth he not arrogate very much, that all the believing people should rejoyce at his clearing? Let these absur­dities confute themselves. He speaks of Discontent that appeared in the faces of his adversaries. Who made him a judge of our thoughts?

But it is said, Master Corbet confessed before all the people, that it had been better never to have begun such a task; for the people will run after him much more then before. Answ. It's impossible to re­member every word that passeth in the heat of disputation. But [Page 21] my complaint, whatever it was, was thus grounded. Master Ba­con would dispute neither in a formal Syllogism, nor Enthymeme, nor in any Argumentation trussed up in a Logical way; but ran tho­row many Ambages, and seemed to make Speeches with an affected deliberation; and still he craved leave to explain himself: which prolixity spent the time, lost the Argument, and confounded the Hearers.

He tells us that the evidence of the truth had for the present struck a deep silence in all his opposers. Here is an absolute falshood: For unto his Answers I still made Reply, till we were taken off, and caused by them that moderated to passe to another Question, accord­ing to the Law of Disputation.

He relates that some were complained of by witnesses to have vowed to be the death of him. Here is an high Charge given in; but to whom the complaint was made, or by what witnesses, or who those were that had so vowed, it is not signified. In this he deals deceitfully, lurking in generals, and maliciously, in leaving doubtful not onely the persons, but the conditions of them who should so vow: the world might suspect Magistrates, Commanders, Ministers, and men of qua­lity. I am not now in Gloucester to enquire into this passage: Let it therefore be thought upon, that I stand upon great disadvantage in this Reply, whereas a longer time of examination would display my Antagonist much more; but that I hasten to crush this bird in the shell: yet having no more, then what I know to be firm truth at such a distance both of time and place, I doubt not but to make a sufficient discovery of his many Untruths, to all indifferent judge­ments. Wherefore I know that men of any value would highly scorn such an Imputation; nor were any incensed or encouraged by us so much as unto violent speeches. And if this were true, doubt­lesse Master Bacon, who hath stuffed his book with so many idle pas­sassages, would not omit to give some character of the persons guil­ty of so great a crime.

Thus ended the first days Dispute: The morrow after, we came together to discusse the residue of the Questions. But our Relator gives out that the remaining part of my Reply, i. e. to the five last Que­stions, contained little else then invectives against his person. Where­in I charge him with a notorious slander. And if my charge be false, 'tis in his power to shame me: For my Reply was delivered [Page 22] in to him, and had now been printed, had my papers been by me.

Master Bacon had no more discountenance the second day then the first; onely he was required to contract his speech according to the law of Argumentation; and even then, he spake many words for my one.

But he saith that the Committee being Judge, in their name (as he supposeth) Master Bromwitch drew up the result of each days dispute, and gave the whole Ass mbly notice that nothing was proved against him, but what was according to Orthodox opinion. To this I make an­swer, That the Governour, the Maior, and Aldermen, were Judges as well as the Committee, and that Master Bromwitch, as I con­ceived, did not speak in the name of the Committee, but in his own name, being a quick and a nimble Disputant. Besides, this Gen­tleman did not take off the charge of Errour: but when M ster Ba­con running to and fro in doubtful terms, came neer to our Tenents, he read it to the people, rather to his conviction then clearing; by which all men might take notice of his Vacillation or halting. Whether the Committee did so clear him, I refer the Reader to their second Order for his removal, which is inserted in his Relation in these words.

We the Gentlemen of the Committee gave out our Order upon a seri­ous Debate, not of our selves, as according to our Instructions we might have done, but with the ingredients and consult of many godly and lear­ned Ministers by both parties, and emergent Reasons our Votes were concluded, and (in a more civil manner then Master Bacon deserved) were sent unto him: yet, although he hath rather arraigned, then intrea­ted the Committee to alter their Judgements, we are resolved not to alter our commands, as rather engaged to gratifie so many Orthodox Divines then his fancy.

He remarks the word gratifie. What greater reproach could he fasten upon the Committee, then thus to insinuate that they did in­jure him to gratifie us?

But it is said that Master Corbet with all vehemency exclaimed that Master Bacon had another meaning, though his words were justifiable. It is answered, that I did not justifie the greatest part of his expres­sions, though some of them might admit a fair construction. But I complained of the ambiguity of his expressions, which were not fit for Dispute, though they may suit very well with Exhortation. [Page 23] And when a man shall absolutely disclain such terms as are necessary to Disputation, 'tis no fair dealing, nor signe of a good cause or sound Doctrine. To make instance; at that very time he would by no means meddle with the terms of the habits of grace, or inherent holinesse, because they were not Scripture-terms.

That the Ministers got themselves into a committee that afternoon, is utterly false. For they had no meeting among themselves. Wherefore that Master Hart and Master Close were exc [...]ded by consent, is as false. As also, that we should resolve among our selves (as the Relation imports) that he must depart, or we would leave the city, is a grosse untruth. We had no such Debate, no such circumstances, no such meeting. But the Ministers were required to attend the Committee of Parliament. And if Master Hart and Master Close were not there, their own unwillingnesse was the cause of their non-appearance.

The Committee are able to justifie their own Orders, and their manner of proceeding. Threatnings, if they were, or whatever they were, were provoked by his obstinate disobedience.

What a train of egregious stories brings up the rere of his Dis­course, of things done upon a Saturday at two a clock in the afternoon, by the Governours Captain Lieutenant with a party of Troopers, and their discourse with him; with his severall Horses; the Captain Lieu­tenant's leaving him at three miles distance from the city; his guidance by the Head-corporal; and that Captain Massie did not go in his compa­ny to Sudely, but came after late in the night, &c. Such strains will help to swell the Volume of a jesting Romance, or Book of Knight-Errantry.

But I observe that Master Bacon doth not so fairly alight from off that horse that was taken up to convey him to some other of the Parliaments Quarters; nor doth he sufficiently clear himself from that fraud he saith was laid to his charge. This is the truth of the story: Master Bacon disliking the first horse, was furnished with another more able. Himself reports that his guides having brought him to Warwick, told him that they had no order con­cerning the horse, but that it was at his own disposal. This was either their neglect or dishonesty. And could he think that those Souldiers had power to give another mans horse taken up for that particular service? or did he conceive that the Governour would [Page 24] either defraud the owner, or pay the price that he might be quit his company? But this horse was chalenged at London on the be­half of Colonel Okey, at that time in Sir William Wallers Army, at the instance of Colonel Okey's friend, by Master Wheeler, who had an interest in that Army: and imported as much to Master Bacon. But he refused to restore it: and being demanded to declare his inte­rest therein, he replied that the horse was at his disposal, and that he had endeavoured to put him off or exchange him at Northampton. Hereupon he was chalenged for a fellonious detainer, and still urged to give him back, even by the owners wife, till for meer shame, and the importunity of his own friends, to avoid further scandal, he was compelled to deliver him. This passage at London, is avowed by Master Wheeler in all the circumstances.

Lastly, he calls God, and the consciences of those that were present, to witnesse the truth of his Relation. I also can appeal to heaven for the truth of my Answer; wherein my adversary is convicted of so many falshoods and impertinencies; and am also assured of the At­testation of the Magistrates and the Ministers of Gloucester, which was the Scene of this Action.

Concerning these ten Questions, let it be considered, first, that they were propounded without any premeditation; and many of them were not expressed in such searching terms, as might prevent all evasions. Secondly, that we condescended to Mr. Bacon in the wording of them, because he would not be gained to declare him­self, except he apprehended some advantage. Thirdly, that Master Bacon hath published his stating of them, and that with a plentiful Commentary upon some; but omitted my Answer not onely given in private, but debated upon in publike. The copie thereof I have not by me; and the necessity of a quick dispatch permits no delay. But the substance thereof is faithfully delivered: if not, my opposite having the Paper put into his hands, may discover it if he please. Fourthly, the Affirmative and Negative affixed, is Master Bacons Judgement. Let ours be collected in the discusse of each Que­stion.