YOu are well met, Sir.

And you also.

Sir, I pray you pardon my boldnesse to crave your Name. For as I came along, I conceived from what I had heard, that you should be the man called Conscience.

My name is Conscience.

Now I am glad of this happy opportunity to meet you, of whom I have heard so much talk abroad in the world.

Why, what talk hath the world of me?

Sir, I pray you be not offended, and I will tell you. [Page 2] The World generally saith of you, that you are the only trou­bler of the State.

Is it therefore true, because the world saith it? So Ahab called the Prophet Eliah, the Troubler of Israel: so the Jewes said of Christ, that he was a perverter, and stirrer up of the Luke 23. 2, 5. people. So when this Lambe of God, the King of the Jewes was born, Herod, and all Jerussilem were troubled at it. Why so? Was it this King that troubled them, or their own guilty consci­ences in usurping this Kingdom? Alas! Sir this is no news, that where ever the fame of this King and of his kingdom commeth, in the powerfull preaching of the Gospel of the kingdom, it brings with it trouble and terrom to the world, or to any State. And as it was with Herod and the Priests at Jerusalem at the birth of this King, so at his death: they could not endure to hear of this King of the Jews. So the Heathen Emperour Domitian, out of jealousie of his Empire, sought to root out the whole Euseb. Eccl. Hist. Race of CHRISTS Kindred, until two of them were brought before him that got their living hardly in the husbanding of a few acres of land, and understanding of Christs kingdom, that it was altogether spirituall and not of this world, he dismissed them, and ceassed his persecution. An example sufficient to shame thousands that glory in the Name of Christians, and con­trary to this Heathen, cannot endure to hear of Christs kingdom to be spirituall; but under some fair colourable pretences of Spiritualty, and Clergy, and I know not what, endeavour no­thing more then to set up a worldly kingdom, which yet they must (forsooth) call Christs kingdom, when in nothing it is spi­rituall, but as it is a Tyranny set over mens consciences, souls, and spirits. But sir, before I proceed any further with you, let me also crave your name.

Sir, my name is Conformity.

Conformity. Sir, if you be the man, I know none more ready to raise slanders upon me then your self; and may I not say truly of thee, that thou art one of the greatest troublers of Israel? For what can more trouble the world, then when thou (Conformity) would'st force all mens consciences to dance after thy Pipe.

Why, Mr. Conscience, do not ye think that I have a [Page 3] conscience as well as you? should I therefore be an enemy to Conscience? But indeed, I confesse my conscience is not so strict, or strait-laced, or self-willed, as obstinately to stand upon mine own singular opinion, in opposition to the generall judgement of most meh, and those not only learned, but pious too, so far as I can judge.

It seems then that every conscience by your verdict, must be strait-laced, and self-willed, that will not follow the multitude, seeing you ground your conscience upon men for their number, learning, piety, making them the rule of your conscience, and not Gods Word alone.

Sir I hold this the safest way: for I may misunderstand the Scripture, which many learned cannot so easily do.

This indeed is a good plea for Popery, who boast of their Universality, Learning, Councels, & Synods, and therefore (besides the Popes infallible Oracle) not easily subject to mis­understand the Scriptures. Or you are like those Jewes, who would not believe in Christ, unlesse the Rulers did know indeed that he was the very Christ. Or as the Pharisees said, Have any John 7. 26. 48. of the Rulers, or of the Pharisees believed on him? Thus, do you not pin your faith, and so your souls upon mens sleeves, when you will believe as most believe, or as the Church or Nation believes?

But sir, I put a great difference between a Councel of learned Papists, or a Synedrion of Jewish Priests, and a Synod of learned Protestants.

Indeed the very names of Papist and Protestant im­port no small difference; although a Papist and a Protestant at large are at no great odds in matter of Faith, Conscience, Re­ligion; only such a Protestant is apter to turn Papist, then a Papist, Protestant. And take your Protestants at the best, call a Synod of the learned est, and highest esteem in the world, yet even such a Synod may in some things and those fundamentall too, possibly run into, and wrap themselves in foul errours.

How sir? shew me any one instance hereof, that ever any learned Protestant Counsel or Synod hath erred in any fun­damentall of faith, or much lesse hath maintained such an Error or Heresie, and I will not henceforth be so confident in depend­ing [Page 4] and resting upon mens judgements, be they never so lear­ned, godly, or many.

Seeing you thus put me to it, what think ye of Jesus Christ? Is not he a prime fundamentall?

No doubt, for he is the only foundation: For other foundation can no man lay. 1 Cor. 3. 11.

Is not Christ then as well in his three Offices (as he is King, Priest and Prophet) as in his two natures united in one Person of the Eternal Son of God, a fundamentall of faith, so as, as well he that denieth any one of his three Offices, as 1 Joh. 4. 3. he that denieth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is an Anti­christ and grand Heretick, as overthrowing a principall founda­tion of faith?

I conceive this cannot well be denyed.

Nay, of necessity it must be believed. For the Papists in joyning their Traditions with the Scripture, deny Christs Propheticall office; and in equalling their Satisfactions with Christs merits, they deny his Priestly Office; and in exalting their Hierarchy (call it Papall, or Prelaticall, or Sacerdotall) Thess. 2. 4. over the Temple of God, mens consciences, they deny Christs Kingly Office: All which Offices together, or any one of them being denied; is, John 2. 22. with Antichrist, to deny, that Jesus is the Christ; seeing the Christ is he, that is anointed King, Priest, and Prophet, of which to deny any one, is to deny that Jesus is the Christ. Do ye not believe this, Mr. Conformity?

I confesse there appears to me a truth to be in all this. But yet, Mr. Conscience, I hope you do not go about to en­snare me with mine own confessions.

Why Master Conformity, are you conscious to your selfe, that while you confesse the truth, the truth should ensnare you? Certainly the bonds of John 8. 32. truth willing­ly taken upon us, become the robes and livery of our true free­dome.

Sir, take me not at the worst; I would not willingly utter words to my prejudice.

Speak the words of truth then, and fear nothing.

Well sir, proceed then to what you have more to say.

I say then, that to deny any one of Christs Offices (as afore) is to overthrow a Foundation of faith.

I grant it.

Hereupon I inferre, that it is possible for a learned Synod of Protestant Divines to deny one of these three Offices, and so to overthrow a foundation of faith.

Though it be possible, yet it is not probable. But sir, remember what ye undertook, namely, to prove by instance, that a Protestant Synod of Orthodox Divines hath thus erred.

Nay stay, Mr. Conformity, remember your self well: Did I say, a Protestant Synod of Orthodox Divines? For how Orthodox, if they overthrow a foundation of faith? then they cease to be Orthodox.

Well, however, yet they might in other fundamentals be Orthodox.

But in any one fundamentall to be Heterodox, is to cease to be Orthodox, and, obstinately persisting, is hereticall.

I confesse, that any one Heresie maintained, makes a man a Heretick, hold he otherwise never so many truths, and so he overthrows the faith, as those did who 1 Cor. 15. denyed the Resur­rection, though all other truths they held. But sir, all this while I expect your proof or instance, that a Synod of Protestant Di­vines should fall into any such foul errour, or heresie, as should overthrow the foundation.

Mr. Conformity, for instance we need not go beyond the seas, or over our English bounds to fetch it. What if the generality of the Ministers and people in England be found to be wrapped in such a destructive Heresie? I call it destructive, using the 2 Pet. 2. 1, 2. [...] Haereses vastantes. Apostles word, where he saith. That there shall be false teachers among Gods people, who shall cunningly bring in de­str [...]ying Heresies. And what are these? Even denying the Lord that bought them, bringing upon themselves [...] swift destruction. And many shall follow their destructive wayes, or their destructi­ons, by whom the way of truth shall be [...]. evill spoken of, or blas [...]he­med. A Prophesie (by the way) which if well weighed, and rightly applyed, may be found to be in a great measure fulfilled in these our times. For here is first a destructive, or (as our common Translation) damnable Heresie. Secondly, this Heresie [...]. [Page 6] is, in deaying the Lord Jesus Christ. Thirdly, here is a many fol­lowers. Fourthly, among this many there be some at least, who have their mouthes open in Pulpits, Streets, Tables, and their Quils in Presses, in Pamphlets, blaspheming, speaking all man­ner of evill against the way of truth; even that way of truth, which holdeth forth, confesseth, professeth, maintaineth (against all the worlds reproaches) Jesus Christ in that very particular, wherein he is at this day so mightily decried, and denied by false Teachers and their followers. Nor can any Age, as touching this one particular, be paralleld with this of ours for Pens and As those infamous books of Tho. Ed­wards and Iohn Bast­wick, too welknown to all. Tongues of blasphemy; lashing out, and running over all the bounds and banks, not only of Christianity, but even of com­mon modesty and humanity (as men bereaft of their wits) and all this against the assertors and maintainers of the Kingly Office of Jesus Christ. And lastly, a destructive Heresie, in that not only it destroyes soules, but is in a precipice to destroy King­doms, to such a height of rage it is now grown. Notus ni­mis omnib. Horat.

But Mr. Conscience, what means all this? What? In that your generality, do you charge as all, Synod, Sion, City, Countrey, as lying under the guilt of such an Heresie? What? All denying the Lord Jesus Christ?

Mr. Conformity, cannot a man speak of a generality, but he must needs name particulars? And you know that gene­rals have their exceptions. And when a generality is mentio­ned, let all particulars look to it. But what if there be a gene­rality, and that of Protestants (so called) in the land, which will be found to overthrow Christs Kingly Office?

What if, say you? what if the sky fall? Nay I dare say, yea, and swear too, that not any one of this generality you mean, doth, or dare deny Christs Kingly office and prerogative. I have often heard them in publick to give Christ the title of King, and to speak of his kingdom; and they every where con­fesse and professe him to be King of his Church. So as such a charge would argue as much malice, as untruth.

And I have heard them say as much as you say. But is saying sufficient? Yea, I have heard them say, That all Church­members must be Saints: that all Churches be equal, & none have jurisdiction over other: that Gods Word is the only rule of Refor­mation: [Page 7] and many such principles about Churches they confesse in words So, Christ to be King. But if this be all, it may prove lit­tle better, then the Jews putting a purple robe upon Christ with a crown of thorns on his head, and a reed for a scepter in his hand, with Hail King of the Jewes; but for all this, crucified him: so that you confesse Christ to be King, and crucifie his true sub­jects Again, you know the Pharisees said many things well, but they did them not. And doth not the Scripture speak of such as Tit. 1. 16 professe they know God, but in works deny him? Whence we observe a twofold deniall of God: one in words, & another in deeds. Now I do not say, that the generality doth in words deny Christs Kingly office: but this I affirm, that in works they deny him.

Sir, how do you prove that? or how doth that Scrip­ture reach to those you speak of?

A question opportunely put. And therefore if you turn to the 14 & 15 verses immediately foregoing, you may Tit. 1. 14, 15. observe what manner of persons those were, whom the Apostle there speaks of, and upon what occasion. For that Chapter being to set forth the office of a Bishop or Pastor of a particu­lar Church or Congregation, and how he should be qualified and gifted, and the Church governed; the Apostle willeth Titus to warn the Christians, Not to give heed to Iewish fables and commandements of men, that turn from the truth. Where he ranks the commandements of men in Church-matters, manners, and government, with Iewish fables, as which do turn men away from the truth, and so from Christ, as he also sheweth at large, Col. 2, 8. 20. 22. and throughout the whole Chapter. So as to set up the Commandements of men in formes of worship, or of Church-government, being Christs spirituall kingdom, is to se­parate men from Christ, (Col. 2. 19.) and to make them unbe­lieving, (Tit. 1. 14.) and impure in minde and conscience, V. 15. yea, abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work re­probate, Vers. 16. All which I commend to your more sad and serious consideration, Master Conformity.

I confesse this is a terrible Scripture to those that lye under the condemnation of it. But I hope those whom you mean, are no such men: for first, you confesse they deny not in [Page 8] words Christs Kingly office: and for any deniall in works, you have not yet proved, nor I hope can.

I have nothing to do with your hope. But whereas you would make it my confession, that they deny not in words Christs Kingly office, neither doe I absolutely confesse so much. For though I confesse I have heard them upon occasi­on (being put to it) in words to confesse Christ to be King of his Church: yet I have heard them again say, and have read it in their books, and they maintain it tooth and nail, that Christ hath left the forms of worship and Church government unto men, to be so framed as is most suitable to the conditions of the people, or the laws of each State, binding all the subjects thereof (and that under severe penalties) to an universall con­formity, or uniformity.

Why sir, hath not Christ left that power and liberty to those that are in authority; as Synods, to frame and com­pose forms of worship and Church-government, such as they judge fittest, having an eye to the Scripture, and the civill Ma­gistrate to confirm the same by law?

The Pope indeed arrogating to himself all power in Heaven and Earth over Churches and Kingdoms, makes his claim from Scripture. As Mat. 16. 18. Thou art Peter, &c. Therefore his successor, the Pope, is the Rock, whereon the Church is built. So, here are two swords: therefore the Pope hath power of both the swords. So, Luke 22 38. The Holy Ghost shall lead you into all truth: Therefore the Apostolick Chair at Rome cannot erre. Here Mr. Conformity, cast your eye a little upon the Scripture, * John 16. 13. and see there what one place you can finde to serve your turn, that hath any more likenesse or probability in it, for what you claim, then those places which the Papists are not ashamed to build their Babel-Towre upon. You have talked much of Jure Divino, but are not able to crane it up higher then to Jure Humano: and therefore, I suppose it is, that of late dayes, since the House put their nine Queres to the Synod, the mention of Jure Divino is quite husht. And now Conscience challengeth you to produce but one testimony from Scripture for you, which will not make you as ridiculous, as the forenamed Scrip­tures do the Pope. And for Synods, they have no such authority [Page 9] as you speak of. Give us one Scripture. That in Acts 15. will not serve your turn. And the Apostles sought not to humane authority, and laws, to confirm the Gospel, or to give power to the exercise of their ministery.

Why Mr. Conscience, you your self cannot shew us from Scripture a model of your way, though promised, and long expected; and therefore why should you require one of us?

We do not require so much of you, but to shew us one only place of Scripture for you, which you cannot do. And for us, though we do not give you such a model, as you desire, or rather dream of (for no such model is left in the New Testa­ment, as was given to Moses and David in the Old; which con­sisted altogether of externall things, being shadows of the spi­rituall now under the Gospel, the pattern whereof was Christ. But this we both have done, and yet further are able to do, to prove our way, with all our practises in every particular, out of Gods Word, which you are not able to do for any one of your practices, much lesse for the whole way of your Classicall Pres­bytery, as which hath no footing in Scripture. For (because you thus urge me) shew us, if you can, in all the New Testament, any one Nationall Christian Church. Or shew us any one ground for either Nationall or Parochiall Christian Churches, or yet any Church fixed to a place, so that all people successively comming to dwell there, be they what they will, godly or pro­phane, Protestants or Papists, because inhabitants there, must therefore make up the Church there, whether Nationall or Pa­rochiall. Or shew us that Churches should come by naturall propagation, or locall habitation and succession, and not by spirituall generation only. Or shew us in Scripture either rule or example for a Classicall Presbytery. Or shew us in the whole Scripture a State church government allowed of God. Or shew us out of the Word, that the Apostles constituted no Churches without leave obtained from the civill State. Or whether those Christian Jews that constrained the Galatians to be circumcised, for the avoiding of persecution, did well or no, so to constrain, and that only to avoid persecution: or whether this example will warrant you to constrain all to conform to you; either be­cause [Page 10] conformity is free from persecution, or because all must be persecuted, that conform not. Or lastly, shew us, what bet­ter rule or example the Scripture affords, for wresting from the Magistrate through the force of importunity by men both many and mighty, stirred up and egged on by a Colledge of Priests, to reject Christ and his government, and deliver him up to their wils to be crucified, then that Colledge of Priests in Jeru­salem, who so incensed the people against Christ, that nothing would satisfie them, but he must be crucified; so as the Magi­strate is necessitated even against his conscience, what through fear of Caesar on the one side, and what for favour of the peo­ple on the other, to gratifie them with a Barabbas in stead of Christ. Now to all, or any of these, we desire your answer.

Sir, I only urge this for the present, that though the Scripture hath not expressed a power given to men by Christ, yet we finde examples of it in the Old Testament, as Jehosaphat, Ezekiah, Iosiah, Asa, Kings of Judah, who reformed Religion, and are commended for it as good Kings for their labour.

They did not set up any new forms of Religion of their own head, but they commanded the Priests and Levites to restore and repair Religion in all things according to the pre­script, and precise pattern given by God himself. And note withall, that the kingdom of Iudah or of David, was a type of Christs spiritual kingdom, and all the Kings of Judah were types of Christ. So as no other Kings or States are to be paralleld with them. But yet (I say) for all that, they went not beyond the precise rule of Gods law, as you may see by all those ex­amples you alledge. For Christ gave those Kings, though types of himself, no such power, as you pretend. Yea, the Scripture every where, in both the Testaments, hath punctually preserved inviolate and entire, that Kingly prerogative of Christ, as being as incapable of being communicable to any humane power, as his omnipotency is, or his other offices, as High Priest and Pro­phet. For proof hereof: Moses for all his wisdom, and learn­ing, and piety, though he were a great Prophet, and a type of Christ, yet had not this power granted unto him, to frame the Tabernacle, with all things pertaining thereunto, as himself pleased; but a strict charge God gave unto him, saying, See [Page 11] thou do all Exo. 25. 30. Heb. 8. 5. things according to the patterne shewed thee in the Mount. So David, though a King, and a man after Gods own heart, yet was not entrusted for the framing of the pattern of the Temple for his son Solomon, but 1 Chro. 28. 12, 19. God gave him the pattern thereof both by the Spirit, and in writing (so carefull was God, lest David should forget any thing) which he delivers to his son Solomon to do in all things accordingly. So in Ezekial we reade, Chap. 43. 10. where the reformation of the Church under the Gospel is typed, there is a pattern to be measured, as Ezek. 40. 5. to which, an­swereth that in Rev. 11. 1. a place worthy our best observation, as pertinent to these times of Reformation, which must be mea­sured by the golden reed of the Word of God. And for any the least dominion over the conscience by any humane binding law in matters of faith, Christ would no more entrust the Apostles themselves, then he did Moses and David. And there­fore 2 Cor. 2. 24. Paul disclaimed it. And 1 Pet. 5. 3. Peter disswaded it to the Pres­byters or Elders, being himself an Elder. And herein even ser­vants must not be servants to men, as being bought with a price, and so Christs free-men. And remarkable is that 1 Cor. 7 23. Scripture, where Christ, speaking to the multitude, and to his Disciples, he tels them of the Scribes and Pharisees sitting in Moses chair, * Mat. 23. and so to be heard: but when among other their practises they binde heavy burthens, then and there he saith, Call no man Fa­ther upon earth; that is, therein obey them not, that's for the multitude: And for the Disciples, Re ye not called Rabbi, for one is your Master, even Christ. And that no man hath power over anothers conscience, the Apostle sheweth, speaking to the very same purpose; Who art thou that judgest another mans Rom. 14. 4 servant? How much more then Christs servant? And this in things indifferent: how much lesse in things forbidden in the Scripture, must we force our brothers conscience, or labour to perswade him? The Chapter is full of arguments to this pur­pose.

But sir, if the Scripture be so clear for that which you affirm, then hath the whole Church of God for many Ages, even almost from the very Apostles, continued in a foul errour.

Nay more then almost. For this mystery of iniquity had its first rise even in the Apostles times, it began then to [Page 12] work. And what was this mystery of iniquity, but an exalta­tion of mans power above all that is called God, or that is wor­shipped, 2 Thess. 2 4. so as to sit upon, or over, or in the Temple of God, over the consciences of Gods people, and over the Church, as God him­self? And note there also, it is called an Apostasie, or (as Tit. 1. 14.) a turning away from, or of the truth (as afore) and such are adversaries too, and all Antichristian. Such an one was 3 John Dio­trephes; that [...], who loved the preeminence (the ve­ry spawn of this mystery) which sets him a work to raise him­self: 1. In not receiving the Apostle John. 2 In prating against him with malitious words. 3. In not receiving the brethren. 4. In forbidding those that would. And 5. In casting them out of the Church. Thus also did this mysterie begin to work, as the Apo­stle intimates both in Tit. 1. 14. and in Col. 2. 8. 17. 18. 28. 22, 23. But then this mystery was but in the swadling clouts, which af­terward growing by degrees to the full stature, was so bedeck­ed with infinite varieties of ceremonies, and daily new fashions in Religion (as the Crow with every birds feather) that getting an unlimited, usurped power, and that under the colour of Jure Divino, all mens consciences, Churches must conform to the present fashion of worship and Church-government. Thus by degrees this Mystery of iniquity mounted to its height, and hath now obtained such a prescription of antiquity, as is equivalent to a law. And not only the Pope claimeth and exerciseth this power over his whole Popedome, and Hierarchy, but from him our late Prelates. And whence, or from whom you derive this very power, unlesse immediately either from the Pope, or from our late Prelates, whose personall Prelacy you have abandoned, saving their Prelaticall spirit and usurped power: or else from the antiquity of this mystery; you may do well to inform us. And in truth, this was that very sluice, which when first opened, did let in that inundation and deluge not only of will-worship, in all kinde of ceremonies and superstitions, but also of humane forms and frames of Church-government, and in all of them such a tyrannicall power over all consciences and Churches, as hath wholly drowned all; so as Christs Dove can no where finde, where to set her foot. And therefore in this time of pre­tended Gen. 8. 9. Reformation, to erect this great Idol, to wit, a power [Page 13] in man to prescribe laws, and to legitimate commandements for worship and Church government; and to presse them upon eve­ry mans conscience: what is it, but with Nebuchadnezzar to Dan. 3. erect his golden Image, and with an immortall Law of the Medes and Persians, to binde all men to fall down and worship it? Or what is it, but with Ieroboam and his counsel (and so in every alteration of the State) to set up the golden Calves, with a strict commandement of universall conformity; none da­ring among all those ten Tribes 1 Kings 19. 18. openly to professe the pure worship of God, saving the Prophet Eliah, to whom those seven thousand were not known. And therefore God rooted out Ieroboams house; and did the Tribes escape scot-free, for their yielding willing obedience to the commandment of the 1 Kings 12. 28. King his counsel, though it were a publick act of State? Was not Hos. 5. 11. Ephraim oppressed, and broken in judgement, because he wil­lingly walked after the commandement? For God set wicked Kings over them, who oppressed and brake them in judgement, tyrannizing at their pleasure. As alwayes where a people is brought under the spirituall yoak of bondage, they are never free from the temporall. Nor only this, but they were carried into perpetuall captivity, and never returned unto this day. An example to be laid to heart both of Rulers and people. Remem­ber Ephraim therefore, the horriblenesse of whose sin appea­reth by the horriblenesse of the punishment. And like to this is that of Jerusalem, and of the Jews. They said indeed, John 11. 48. If we thus let him alone, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation. No, blinde Esa. 26. 11 Jews, because ye did renounce your King Christ, and so envie the peoples salvation, therefore the Romans came and took away both your place and nation. And how did the Jews reject this their King? Christ tels us in a Parable of a Noble man, Luke 19. saying, (v. 14.) But his Citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, we will not have this man to reign over us. Where note, First, they were such as professed to be the people of God, His Citizens. Secondly, the ground of their re­fusall of him to be their King, was hatred of him, and so to re­fuse him, is to hate him. Thirdly, the manner of their refusall. 1. They sent a message after him (as the vulgar Translation ren­ders [Page 14] it) but the Originall is, They sent [...], an ambassage after him, which is more then a message. It must be done by a publick act of State, to make all cock sure. And 2. the matter of the Ambassage, We will not have this man, or this follow ( Mat. 26. 61. [...]) this, noting their contempt of him. And the reason hereof was their will, We will not. But what was the issue? read and mark it, v. 27. Where Christ not long after returns in Luke 23. 2 judgement against them, w ^ch he executes by those very Romans, whom they so feared, to whom he gives this commission: But those mine enemies that would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them, &c. Which was done accordingly.

But good sir, neither are we as those ten Tribes under an idolatrous government; nor as those Jews, under a Roman Governour, with a Synedrion, or Counsel of Priests, Scribes and Pharisees: but we live in a happy time, under a Protestant Go­vernment, a Protestant Parliament, a Protestant Synod: and therefore there is no such danger by allowing such a power to men, as you pretend.

Although the present State be Protestant, yet you are not sure it will be alwayes so. What if a Marian reign come about again with a Popish Parliament, and Convocation? And if it be true, that Christ hath left such a power to any State (as afore) without limitation, then it is left as well to a Popish State, as to a Protestant. In this respect there is no difference. And then it must follow, that a Popish power, making a law for the setting up of the Masse (as Qu. Mary with her Parliament and Clergy did) and for which they want not pretext of Scrip­ture, and Iure Divino (if bold words, and false glosses will do it) then al the subjects of England must either conforme, or else to the stake. So as the very admitting and crying up of such a power left to men, as it is most false and groundlesse; and (as before) a Grandmother Horesic, and introducer of the most direfull tyranny over soul and all, (so far is it from ever proving to be Iure Divino, as being Ludibrium Synodorum) so it is the next way (and much more in this present juncture of time, as things now stand) to make us as miserable a Nation, as both the ten Tribes, and the Jews. And (as we touched before) if the wisdom of God would not entrust his servant Moses, nor [Page 15] David, nor the Apostles, with a power in setting up what forms of worship & frames of government they pleased, though they were both wise and faithfull, and free from all private in­terests, in seeking themselves, to become Lords Paramount: Car we finde in any age of the world, trow you, either a Parliament or Synod, whereof all the Members, yea, or the greater part, are such as Moses, David, and the Apostles were, so as to be entrusted with such a power? And in case this State should as­sume to it self such a power (as we speak of) so as to enact a law to binde all to conformity; either you must produce some Scripture authority for it, that the Parliament may be satisfied quo jure, and that it is Iure Divino as they require of you, and which you have promised, but have not performed it: Or in the mean time give me leave to put it unto you, or to the soundest judgements, how you can clear your self from falling under that marvellous judgement of God, which we finde in Esay 29. The matter was v. 13. That their fear towards God was taught by the precept of men. They had set up a worship of God according to the precept of men. This was all. And is this, in your judgement, nothing? But what They, were they, that did this? Surely, the Prophets, Rulers, and Seers. What? the Guides and Leaders of the People? How came it to passe? The Lord saith there (as a matter of wonder, and to be proclaimed by a lowd cry) that they were drunken, but not with wine, and staggered, but not with strong drink; and that the Lord had closed their eyes, and poured upon them the spirit of deep sleep. v. 9, 10. So as, neither the learned nor unlearned, could understand the vision, v. 11, 12. And all their religion is turned into hypocrisie, v. 23. Forasmuch, as their fear towards God was taught by the precept of men. For a religion of humane institution is hypocrisie; while pretending to wor­ship and fear God, they fear and worship men, which is both hypocrisie and idolatry. And what's the issue of all this? v. 14. Therefore behold, saith the Lord, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understand­ing of their prudent men shall be hid.

And what of all this?

What think you of it, Mr. Conformity? Is here no­thing that concerns you?

Nothing that I see.

See ye nothing of all this? And are you not then in the number of those, whose eyes are closed, and on whom the Lord hath powred the spirit of deep sleep?

But do ye not know, that this was a Prophesie fulfilled many hundred years agoe, even in Esay's time by those of Jeru­salem? How then can you apply it to these times?

Though it was then fulfilled, yet it is written for our learning, and to admonish us, upon whom the ends of the world are come. And the same Prophesies may have sundry fulfillings upon the like occasions. And for application of it, I only made it a Quere, how you could acquit your self from having it verified of you in these times.

But the Prophesie making mention of the Prophets, Rulers, Seers of Jerusalem, as drunken and blinde; all that I can apprehend hereof is, that you thereby mean the Prophits, Rulers, Seers of this famous City, and perhaps also (to speak more plainly) the Parliament, Synod, Sion-Colledge, the Com­mon-counsel, &c. For who are the Prophets, or Rulers, or Seers, or who are the learned and wise men, but these? There­fore Mr. Conscience, deale ingenuously with us, and speak no more in the clouds.

What Mr. Conformity, would you have me to doe here, as you do with your Parish people, when vou mingle all together at your Sacrament? What? good and bad; those of the Militant, and others of the Malignant (hurch together? I would have you to know, that I put a difference between the Parliament on the one side, and the synod, Sion-Colledge, Common-counsel, on the other. And Secondly, among all these I put no small odds, between the truly wise and prudent that truly fear God, and those that are self-wise, or worldly-wise. And thirdly, I put a difference between Sion-Colledge, and Common counsell, as between Seers and not Seers, between the leaders, and the led. Nor fourthly, do I apply the foresaid Scripture to any one in particular; but my desire is, that every one in all these Companies, would by due examination of him­self make the application. For it is a mater of high concern­ment. And for their better direction herein. First, Let all those [Page 17] that by Letters, Petitions, Remonstrances, Compliances, Confe­deracies, Counsels, secret and open, nocturnall, and diurnall, do wring blood out of the late Covenant; by pressing, importu­ning, and plotting, the setting up and establishing by a law, such a form of Church-government, Worship, Discipline, as not only is the highest affront, and dishonour to Christ, but neces­sarily tends not only to the enslaving of the peoples conscien­ces, but to the undoing of this whole English Nation, by vassal­lizing it to vilest of men, apply it. Secondly, Let all those who would have our victorious Army in all the haste disbanded, be­fore 2. our peace be well setled, and our land cleared from the one end to the other of all those dangers which do threaten it, by the treacheries of so many malignant enemies, who carry two faces under one hood, and do but watch for such an opportuni­ty to wreck their envie and malice upon us, which the only ter­rour of our Army hindreth, holding them at a bay; apply it. Thirdly, Let all those who with such violent and potent im­portunity 3. do presse the Parliament for an Ordinance, to bring themselves and the whole Land under the greatest sin of unna­turall, inhumane, and more then heathenish ingratitude, impiety, injustice, cruelty, by not only dishonouring, discountenancing, abasing, as the vilest our-casts, those men, who have not only, freely laid out their estates, but even prodigally, if not prodigi­ously, to wonderment, hazarded, yea poured out their dearest life-blood: but also (as if they would despight God) by tram­pling upon those whom he hath highly honoured, and not suf­fering them to breathe in their native aire, by whom we yet breathe; and by making them underlings and off-scourings of the land, who have been the preservers of it, and that they should be despicable in their own mother countrey, whom so many glorious victories have made admirable to the neighbour Nations, yea, to the whole world; and terrible to their pro­fessed enemies, and ours; yea, and to pretended friends too, who would master us at home, were not these masters of the field: So as God having thus made them the great instruments of the preservation and deliverance of our Countrey and City from the most desperate, bloody, and bestiall enemies that ever the Earth bred, or Hell hatched; enough to have for ever [Page 18] ever obliged a people of any ingenuity, & not wholly given up to testifie their approbation at least, and congratulation of that great favour & honor God hath vouchsafed to cast upon them: and that as he hath crowned them with so much glory, and they have cast their crowns at the feet of the Lambe that sits upon the throne: So these should come, and first, giving all the glory to God, gather up those crowns, and set them upon the heads of those their preservers and deliverers, and put chains of gold a­bout their necks; so far off should they be from trampling such Pearls under feet, or casting them out of our gates and ports; that they might Solum vertere, spend the remainder of their life in some inglorious exile, to the eternall infamy of our Eng­lish Nation; Let these apply it. Fourthly, let all those, who 4. endeavour by their strong factions to make wide breaches, be­tween Parliament and City, between House and House, yea, between Gods blessing and this Land, which was wont of old to be called Gods kingdom; and so by these breaches would Regnum Angliae, Regnū Dei. Polydor. Virgil, Chron. let in again our bainfull enemies. Let all these, these (I say) make the application to themselves; while as they have wrested out of the Magistrates hand a form of worship and govern­ment, and so, as it is established by the precept of men: so God hath deprived them of wlsdom and understanding, while they would pull upon their own heads, and upon the Land, the guilt of so much innocent blood of so many hundred thousands both in Ireland and England, to be made the footstooll of a bloody Tyranny; and while their eyes are so closed up, as no charme, be it never so wise, can make them either to hear, or see, or un­derstand, or their brains, or bowels, to be sensible of all those notorious and palpable outrages, rapes and robberies, violence and oppression, extortion and exaction in the land, even at noon day, unworthy affronts done to our Parliament by sedi­tious spirits; or of all those cryes and complaints of sundry Countries and Counties, and no redresse, no justice, as if God had now forsaken us & left us as a silly Dove without heart, full of slavish and degenerous fear of shadows, forgetting the mighty God that hath done so great things for us, and will do more, if we by faith still depend upon him: And although the faction is still working, and machinating the ruine of this Nation (if [Page 19] our God miraculously prevent not) yet the god of this world hath so blinded the eyes of these men, through the just judge­ment of God, that they see nothing at all hereof, but are them­selves the main fomenters, abettors, countenancers, promoters, advancers, encouragers, and helpers on of those, that hope to be the instruments of our ruine. So strong is the poyson of this one sin, hypocrisie, and Idolatry, in teaching and setting up a fear or worship towards God by the precept of men; which, as it is a removing of the heart from God, so it causeth him to remove his Spirit from us, and to give us up to such a fearfull Quos perdere vult Deus, hos prius de­mentat. dementa­tion, as is the forerunner of destruction. And, Conformity, if thou hast any of thy right senses left, consider seriously with thy self, what that religion is, which turns men out of their very na­turals, to become brutish, and worse then Heathens; and which the Holy Ghost brands for hypocrisie, then which, nothing is more abominable in the sight of God. Certainly, the true Re­ligion and Doctrine of Christ produceth no such fruits as those fore-mentioned are: as Treason against the State, unnatural­nesse towards our native countrey, unthankfulnesse towards our best deserving friends, our Benefactors, our Preservers: yea, injustice and cruelty towards them, factious plottings and un­derminings, hatred of those that be good, enmity against those that are the friends of Christ, and so persecution of the way of Christ, destroying of Christs kingdom, by setting up a worldly kingdom of men, 2 Tim. 3. 5. having a form of godlinesse, but denying the power thereof; yea, and seeking to overtop the Supream Power. Are we not then (as the Apostle admonisheth and commandeth) to turn away from such?

Nay here, Conscience, I have you upon the hip. For, First, how do we seek to overtop the Supream Power. And Secondly, who doth more go about to overtop the Civil power, then you, while you set up a Religion without it, and above it?

First, For you: Do you not seek to overtop the Supreme Power, whilst you would have your Church-government to be framed after the pattern of that, which sets up a Power (called a Generall Assembly) above the Power of Parliaments? Now the supreme power in England, is the Parliament; so as to set up a superior power over this, is to overturn the very Fun­damental [Page 20] laws of the Kingdom. And this you labour tooth and nail to do, while nothing will serve you, but the Scotish church-government. I wish you would all consider well of it, and be­ware of falling into a Premunire, if you be not deep in it already. And I could wish it were well weighed by the wisest, and those in highest place of authority; whether the importunate pressing of the Covenant, for Uniformity, in the Scotish sense, tend not to undermine and overthrow the liberty and priviledges of the subjects of England, when once a superior power therein, con­sisting of more Clergy men, then of Lay, is predominant over the Parliament of England? And so much the rather, when we read and consider their own publique and authentique Books of their Kirk government, Orders, Discipline, Confession of faith, &c. wherein they give to their General or National Assembly supreme power, not only over their Parochial, Classical, and Provincial assemblies, but even over the Parliament it self. For not only they take the power to appoint both time and place for the convening of their Ecclesiastical assemblies (as 2. Book of Discipline, chap. 7.) But they say moreover in the same chap. ‘For this Orders cause, they may make certain Rules and Con­stitutions, appertaining to the good behaviour of all the mem­bers of the Kirk in their vocation.’ And this they do without the Civil Magistrate. Nay more, chap. ibid. ‘They have power also to abrogate and abolish all Statutes and Ordinances con­cerning Ecclesiastical matters, that are found noysome and un­profitable, and agree not with the time, or are abused by the people. And again in the same book, chap. 12. The National Assemblies of this Country, called commonly the General Assemblies, ought alwayes to be retained in their own liberty, and have their own place; with power to the Kirk to appoint times and places convenient for the same: And all men, as well Magistrates, as Inferiors, to be subject to the Judgement of the same in Ecclesiastical causes, without any reclamation, or appellation to any Judge civil or Ecclesiastical within the Realm.’ Thus in reference to the Spiritualty, or the Church, In Ordine ad Spiritu­al [...]. they make no bones to set up in their National Assembly the same Papal power, which the Pope himself claimeth, over Kings, Princes, States, Kingdoms, Commonweals. And Mr. Rutherford, [Page 21] in his And if the Reeder de­sire surthet satisfaction, (were it needfull to the wise) let him read the late book, enti­tuled, The Troian horse of the Pres­byterial go­vernment, unbowelled. Government of the church of Scotland, chap. 20. p. 312. tels us, ‘That though none in this grand assembly have decisive voyces, save only Commissioners: yet the Acts of the As­sembly oblige all the absents, not present in all their members; and that because, whatsoever is by those Commissioners deter­mined and concluded, is matter necessary, and agreeable to Gods word; as being no lesse infallible, then those decisions of the Apo­stles, Act. 15.’ All which (Conformity) I commend to thee, when in thy best senses. And because thou art apt to be overtaken with a supine drowsines, pleasing thy self with thy dreams of be­comming a King, when once thou art gotten up into the saddle or throne of a Kirk National-Assembly: let me awaken thee by pricking thy dull sides, that thou mayest be at least convinced of that spirit of Antichristian pride and tyranny, of rebellion and treason, in lifting up a Papal throne above the Kings and Kesars, above Kingdoms and Commonweals, to the enslaving of the whole Nation in their souls, bodies, and estates. For who­soever shall not in all things conform to the constitutions of that generall Kirk assembly, when once the horn is blown, then, ipso facto, imprisonment, confiscation of goods, banishment, and what not? Now, Conformity, doth Gods word hold forth any such Kirk fashions? What? To overrule Civil States and King­doms? What? That all Kirk laws and constitutions mustneeds be such, as are both necessary, and agreeable to the Word of God? What? To set up in the Kirk an Oracle of Infallibility, and a Pontifician supremacy, and Antichristian tyrannie? and all under the name of a Christian Presbyterian Kirk-government? But because this perhaps moves thee not; I will remit thee to the supreme Bar of this Kingdom, there to receive thy doom, in case thou dost obstinately and madly persist in thy importu­nate clamours to have that Presbyterian government set up, and thereby our fundamental lawes, priviledges, and power of Parli­aments, liberties and freedom of all true bred English subjects brought under perpetual bondage, worse then that either of Egypt or Babylon. But I passe on:

2. For us▪ You may know, Conformity, that we are not the setters up of that Religion you charge us with; but it is that, which we find to be set up by Christ and his Apostles: which [Page 22] they did, without leave from the Civil power, or from the Eccle­siastical, or mixt Synedrion; as before. Secondly, though the Kingdom of Christ be indeed over all the kingdoms of the world; yet all the subjects of this kingdom, as they are the sub­jects of this or that civill State, so they owe civill obedience thereunto: but as they belong to Christs kingdome, they are free from the civil power in point of religion, owing subjecti­on only to Christ: and if the civil power usurp over any of them, they yield themselves to suffer, with patience, without re­sistance.

Conscience, I like thee well for this, yet. But you tell us strange things of Church-assemblies.

Not more strange, then true: Read their books, and be wise. And for our suffering, which thou likest so well, it is no more then what Christ and his Apostles both taught & practised, and wherein all the Martyrs followed them.

I will better consider of what you say. But do you not condemn the Magistrate, when you say he usurps over you?

No, I condemn him not; that is for God to do, who is the supreme Judge of the world.

Why, what limits hath God set to the Magistrate?

Read Deut. 17. 18, 19. and that from v. 13. to the end of the chap. to wit, the whole law of God. So also what bonds and bounds their own conscience, and the terror of the great Judge, and their sacred oath and solemn covenant and sti­pulation with the people, and not only Gods law, but the civil lawes of the kingdome, do put upon them, you cannot be ig­norant.

But what if the Civil state hath made a-law, to inhibi [...] and restrain all men, and that under severe penalty, from the observation of any other form of Religion, and Church govern­ment, then that which it hath established by law, with a necessity of uniformity and conformity thereunto, imposed upon all the subjects of the kingdom: Doth the Magistrate sin, in seeing this law executed? And without such a government, what Order will you have in your Churches, or what coercive power in the case either of heresie, or schisme?

Do you question the Magistrates sin, when his law is [Page 23] against the law of God, and the liberty of a Christian, who is the subject of Christs kingdom? For here we are to distinguish be­tween a subject of Christs spiritual kingdom, and a meer subject of the civil State. He that is a meer subject of the civil state, ac­knowledging no superior power above it, his conscience (though blind) bids and binds him to obey: but he that is a true subject of Christs kingdom, being also a subject of the civil State, owes a twofold obedience, one to the Civil State, & another to Christ. According to that of Christ. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars, and unto God the things that are Gods. Nor doth the order or disorder in churches (as churches) put any difference between the having, or not having of a civil power. In the Apo­stolick churches there were both heresies and schismes, (1 Cor. 11. 18, 19. 1 Joh. 2. 19.) whith the civil power took no cogni­sance of: Nay, it was, and may be as apt to persecute the truth, as to censure or restrain either heresie, or schisme, or apostacie. And Christs government is sufficient in all Church-cases what­soever.

But, who in a Christian civil State do not acknowledge Christ as superior?

This is sufficiently resolved before. Such as conform to a State religion, or a State church-government, make that the supreme law and lord over their conscience, and so exclude Christs supremacie. Enough is said of that. But you cut me off from what I was about to adde. Mans nature is too prone to idolize the Power so, as to make it as the shadow of the bramble, in Jothams parable, under which to ease themselves of the la­bour Iudg. 19. 15. to search into the Scriptures, and so to come to know what they believe; most men pinning their Religion upon the sleeve either of the Priest, as the Papists do; or also of the Magistrate, as our common Protestants do, wrapping all up in an implicite faith and blind obedience, according to your Remonstrance, that urgeth conformity to the religion and government of Christ already established, or which shall be set up. Thus it was enough for the Pharisees to say, Joh. 19. 7 We have a law, and by that law Christ ought to dye. Thus Christ must not be God, because the Roman Senate, according to their law formerly made, had not first mo­tion'd it, or passed their vote for it, before Tiberius Caesar had [Page 24] commended it to them, namely to admit of Christ into their Pantheon, to take place among their gods. And is it not even so with us? Must not Christ be King of the Jews, only be­cause by an act of State (as before) they will not have this man Luke 19. 14. to reign over them. And Christ must not be God, because the Roman Senate had not pre-resolved it. And so Christ must not be sole Lord over the conscience, nor sole Law giver of his Church, nor his Word the sole rule of worship & of Christs King­ly government of his spiritual kingdom in the conscience, and Churches of the Saints, nor indeed Christs kingdom spiritual; because the Sate hath made a law which must rule the consci­ence in point of forms of worship and of Church-government, that Christs kingdom must be worldly, perpetually entaild to a whole Nation, making up one Nationall Church, the form whereof worldly, and the materials worldly, as either no Saints at all, or else all Saints, because all nominall Christians; and all this and much more, because the civill State, by the instigation of men Ecclesiasticall or Civill, domesticall or forein, hath so ordaind it.

Well, Conscieuce, I now perceive, that fame is no lyar; I have now heard thee my self and much more then ever I heard before, and such things, as my stomack is no way able to digest, but that I must needs go ease it, by acquainting those whom it specially concerns, with what thou hast here delivered. And so farewell.

Nay stay, Conformity, and this withall take with thee. First, I would have thee know, that speaking so freely to thee, I was not so simple, as not to imagine thou wouldst divulge all; nay in truth, I have spoken all this to thee to that very purpose, that thou shouldst communicate it (if possible) so far as the Sun shines; but first to thine at home, as thou sayest. But thus much let me intreat of thee. 1. That thou wouldst not do any thing this way in malice, lest thou adde to thy sin Secondly, that thou wouldst speak nothing but truth, and the whole truth and that without aggravations whereof there is no need especially when thou speakest to thy friends of Conscience, and much more of things of this nature, too harsh for delicate ears. And thirdly, assure them from Conscience, that what I have here spoken to [Page 25] thee, it is out of pure zeale for the honour of Christ, out of pure charity to the persons concerned, out of pure piety to see my native country in such a perishing estate, and the honour of England to lie in the dust; out of pure hatred of hypocrisie, idolatry, pride, covetousnes, ambition, treachery and treason, walking up and down in long robes: And in a word, to deliver (if no more, yet) mine own soul, in discharge of my duty to God and my country, as a poor Minister of Christ, by witnessing the truth, and convincing error. And for a close of all (Confor­mity) If thou desirest Peace with Truth (as we all should do) If thou wouldest have me to hold correspondence with thee, and to give thee the right hand of fellowship; If thou desirest that desirable reconciliation of our differences: First renounce thy name of Conformity, in thy sense, and conform not to this world, but to Gods word, let that be the Cynosure or Pole-star Rom. 12. of that Ʋniformity of Churches, ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD, as in our late Covenant. And this thou shalt do, if (I say not, if thou dost shake off the fear and favour of men, the love of the world, of honours, pleasures, riches, pre­ferments, ambition of greatnesse, of domination over Gods people, Nor if thou castest out that old spirit of bondage under the Prelates, lest it turn into a more dangerous tyrannie, then that of the Prelacie, as being more refined, and going under the plausible name of Reformation: Nor do I say, if thou becommest a self denying man, taking up thy crosse daily to follow Christ: without all which notwithstanding, thou canst not be his true disciple & follower, or enjoy true fellowship with him.) But this I say, and urge, as being the main Fundamental and Essential of a true & right visible church of Christ: If thou confessest Christ in all that he is; If thou givest him his due honour, in submitting thy conscience only and wholly to him, with profession thereof, and not to any humane power, and as to the only Lawgiver of his church and kingdom, to order and establish it with judgement and justice for ever: and to his Word, as the only law and rule Esa. 9. 7. of the government of that kingdom, and the only Judge to ap­peale unto in all doubts and controversies of faith: And if thou shalt confesse every church and congregation of Christ to be [Page 26] only and immediately under Christs jurisdiction, and not subject to any other church or churches, which are so many Sisters, not Mistresses; lest otherwise we set up the Spouse above, or in stead of her husband Christ. If (I say) thou wilt con­fesse and hold forth this in thy publike profession, preach­ing, and practice of it: Then, though thy Churches have many other defects, yet if they have the beeing and consti­tution of true churches of Christ, for matter and form, I shall not scruple to hold communion with thee. But other­wise, so long as thou walkest not up to Christ, in not ac­knowledging and avowing all that he is, in not giving him his due honour in all things, and especially in not setting him up in his Royal throne, without a consort: How can we entertain communion with you? For,

And therefore (Conformity) now that you are about the setting forth of your Confession of Faith, let not this one Article be missing:

[Page 27] And for a close of all, I pray thee (Conformity) advise all thy Colleagues, that they would abstain from stirring up sedition in Pulpits, and great Tables, against the Parliament; perswading to hold the Parliament to it, till you obtain your desires, to retain the Scots in England, till their Government be here setled: which would unsettle and overthrow our fundamental lawes and liberties, which you go about, in thus seeking to force the Parliament: but learn to be wise, honest, loyal, good Christians, true Patriots, true-bred English-men; lest it prove bitternesse in the latter end: For God is avenger of all such.

And so farewell, Conformity.