THat there is no private gifts, nor private Christians that we reade of in Scripture.

THat this is otherwise, may easily ap­peare: for some actions are private, and some are also publique: and againe, some persons are private, and some are publique: and so it followeth, that some actions proceeding from men as pri­vate, their actions are private also: pri­vate actions have reference to private men, and men are private in respect of their conditions, and callings God hath set them in; and private men may some­times performe publique actions, being by authority called thereunto: and this may not only hold in the Civill State, but in the Ecclesiastique: for Jesus Christ hath lest Offices, and Officers in his Church, and those designed to particular pla­ces: This appeares manifestly, as may bee seene in Scripture: To set downe one instance in Acts 6. ver. 1, 2. The Grecians complaining that their Widdowes were neglected, the [Page 2]Apostles to remedy it, called the multitude together, and wished them to looke out so many men; full of the holy Glasts to be appon­ted for this businesse: Now there is no man will deny, but that this act was divine: if so, and that none could performe these actions but those who were publiquely ordained to that purpose, then it follows.

That those men (who were full of the holy Ghrst) by a divine ordinance were appointed to doe such Offices in the Church, not onely as they were Christians, and so had a spirituall sufficiency to performs those duties, but beene private men were now publikely ordained to execute that which they were called to.

But it is worth while to consider what you understand by pivate Christians, and private Spirits, for if you meane that every Christians gifts, are not for private use, but pub­like, and in that respect to doe service to the whole, and so generally to be assistant according to those gifts given him, then your speech is true, and so there is no Christian what­soever that is a true member of Jesus Christ, but hath a duty lying upon them to help to edifie the body in his place: but if by private Christians, and private gifts, you understand that there are none such, because that every one that hath gifts from the head may doe and performe [...] Office in the Church, which is onely properly and peculiatly attributed to some, and so not to be differenced, out of any particular Office, from him that is specially called to a cer­taine Office, then your speech is untrue and tends the high­way to Anabaptisme, besides your selfe tells us, that in respect of Congregated bodies, the more part are out of office: now if the more part in this respect be out of office, then they that are out of office cannot performe, the duties of them that are in office, for what doth the word Office import, but onely a calling to, and a performing of certaine duties that pertain either to the civill State, or the Church, and none can perform these duties, but only those that are designed thereunto, and if there be these differences in those that are in office, and those that are out of office, I would know of you upon what ground you can affirme that there are no private gifts, nor private Christians; if in the first sense you acknowledge it, it is grant­ed [Page 3]to you, if in the second sence which you must assent to, or else you do but dally; then shew us better proofes then these, or else coase to be so universall in your conclusions, untill the premisses be better: for every member that is out of office may be sayd to have private gifts and private spirits, because they are not to execute, and performe those actions in a publike way which others may but in private, as Ʋrsinus writes.

Furthermore in things pertaining to the Church, and as eve­ry member stands in relation one to another, and are members of that head from whom they receive life, so there is distincti­ons of these members in their severall operations. The Apo­stle in 1 Cor. 12.4. sayes, that there are diversities of gifts flowing from one and the same spirit, and although he doth diffuse severall gifts to those members for a mutuall benefit, and to profit with­all, vers. 7. yet these gifts that are thus given, and the persons to whom they are given, are to be differenced in their proper operations, for the gifts make the members, and not the mem­bers the gifts, and to this purpose the Apostle speakes very per­tinently, are all Apostles, are all Prophets, have all the gift of tongues, doe all prophesie, &c.

Hence then it followes, that as some gifts consist in the per­formance of some things, and some of other things; so also those persons in whom those gifts are, are to be differenced like­wise, and this the Apostle doth clearely intimate in 1 Cor. 12. for speaking of the gifts of the Spirit, and their diversities of ope­rations, vers. 6. he proceeds by way of comparison, that as in naturall bodies, one member cannot performe the office of another, and the distinctions of their operations in the body, so also Christ Jesus being the head of the spirituall body, hee hath communicated severall gifts to severall members, and hath designed certaine peculiar offices to some of those mem­bers; now not onely the severall gifts, but also the severall functions in the body Ecclesiastick proceed from Jesus Christ, and therefore the Apostle sayes, vers. 28. And God hath set some in the Church, first Apostles, secondly Prophets, thirdly Teachers, &c. and although in the generall the gifts may concurre in one man, yet there are some particulars affirmed of one, which can­not be spoken of another, and therefore the Apostle againe, [Page 4] vers. 29. Are all Apostles, are all Prophets, are all Teachers, &c. but you say, these For as a man & a beast being both li­ving things are severed one from another by their several properties and speciall diffe­rences, as they be called of the Logicians; even so Apo­stles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Doctors being all Preachers of the Gospell, are severed by that wherein they differ one from another, and as he can be no man, which have none of these differences wherby a man is severed from living things, so he cannot be Prophet, or A­postle, which hath nothing whereby hee may differ from a Pastor, Doctor, or Evangelist. Cartwright, 1. Part of his R [...]yao Whitgift. Pag. 380. offices were extraordinary, true, but yet by them and after them, the ordinary offices have the same di­stinctions, as thus. Pastors, Elders, and Deacons, are not these distinct offices? from all which that hath beene spoken, it is a necessary conclusion and issuing from these premises: to wit,

That as God hath set downe, not onely a distinction of those Offices and Officers which are extraordinary, but also ordinary, and that even in these ordinary Offices which should sueceed perpetually in the Church, the least of them cannot take that publike Office upon him without the call of the Church, as was instanced in these Dea­cons, Acts the sixth, it followes invincibly that there is an abso­lute and plaine distinction betweene, and a difference in, a puplike and private Spirit, and so of those persons in whom there are; and that when such places are void, no man can take upon him that arrogancy, (unlesse in case of necessitie) to execute them, unlesse called thereunto.

Againe, that there is difference betwixt the spirit of a Mi­nister publikely called, and a private man, to whom God hath given the gifts of the Spirit; is proved from Saint Paul, where he sayes, the Spirit of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets, and not to every private man, as Master In his Cases of Conscience. Perkins sayes, and hee shewes also that God doth give a larger measure of gifts to Ministers and publike dispensers of his Word and Sacraments, then to ordinary and private men; The Vertues of the third Commandement consists in the propagation and spreading abroad of the true doctrine of Gods Essence, not that publication which is done by the publique Ministry, and which belongeth to the publique function of the Church, but that propaga­tion which pertaineth to every one, because every one privately in his place is bound to bring others to the knowledge and worship of God. Deut. 4.9. Luke 22.32. Col. 3.16. 1 Thess. 5.11. Ursin. Cat. and this also may bee proved by a necessary induction from those words of the Apo­stle, 1 Cor. 14.5. I would that you all spake with tongues, from which it is evident, that the Apostle by ascribing to the know­ledge of tongues, the Epithite of a spirituall gift, and that those men whom God hath called also by his Spirit to the worke of the Ministery, sanctifying those gifts unto them; it [Page 5]followes necessarily, that to whom larger gifts are given, both unto the knowledge of tongues, and of the Scriptures in those tongues, that there a larger measure of grace may and doth dwell; now if a larger measure of grace and gifts doe remaine in some men more then others, then those men are more fitter for the greatest Offices in the body, and so likewise a distinction of their duties must be granted for the manner; for the know­ledge of the true and exact meaning of the Scriptures, and the extents of the holy Ghosts meaning therein; Withour the study and learning of Arts and Sci­ences men can­not be made fit to teach, nor the purity and sincerity of do­ctrine main­tained against Heretiques. Ursin. Cart. There must be something else to concurre besides the gifts and graces given to the Elect; and to this purpose Wherefore saith he, serves the Schooles of the Prophets, and the know­ledge of Arts and Tongues, but to divide the Word a­right, and to distribute to every mans ne­cessities, Bol­ton in his 3. Treat. pag. Master Bolton speakes excellently, and so also how shall the Ministers of God convince the learned adversaries, if there be no skill nor knowledge in Arts and Tongues, from all which it appeares, that as God endued his Ministers with larger measures of gifts in tongues, and in the knowledge of the holy Scriptures, and these being sanctified unto them, and hath not given such large measures to private men, who have not such publike offices designed to them by the Church (because indeed not fit) hee must needs be a very strange man that will deny that there are not private gifts, nor private Christians; the consent of judi­cious, godly, and learned Divines assenting thereunto: and so those Divines, as Perkins, Calvin, Bolton, &c. doe onely shew that there ought to be a mutuall edifying of one another in those graces that God hath given to his people, and members of the Church, but they doe not prove this speech: That there is no private gifts nor private Christians.

Now because that which followes in your booke, is not to be questioned, but by all faithfull men, Divines, and others gran­ted, to wit, that Christians may edifie one another mutually, and according to those gifts that God hath given them, we will therefore proceed to that which followes to be answered.

And first you make an objection against the universalitie of this truth.

That none ought to preach but those in office, Objoct. nor else may be properly said to preach,

To this you answer, when the dispersed Christians in that persecution were scattered abroad, it it said, that they went about [Page 6]preaching, and the hand of the Lord was with them, Act. 11.19, 20, 21.

But doe you thinke that this is a sufficient warrant for you to preach publikely, Rep. in a time when the Word of God is free­ly preached by his faithfull messengers, and who have ordina­ry callings thereunto? As for those Christians, without doubt it was extraordinary in them to doe this, and if you had seri­ously weighed the circumstance of the place, and the cause thereof, you would not have made such a bad conclusion; for by reason of the greatnesse of the persecution at Jerusalem, some Christians scattered themselves abroad except the Apo­stles; now the Apostles Because they would ra­ther lose their lives at Jerusa­lem, then [...]e­part from the Congregati­ons they had converted. Gualt. in 4. Acts. remaining at Jerusalem, privately for feare of the persecutors as some thinke, as St. Paul did in the like case for feare of the Jewes, and so by that meanes the Gos­pell could not be preached to them; other places Saint Steven was stoned, and others of them no doubt but were in prison, there was now a necessi [...]e that the Word should bee preached by them if at all; especially in those parts of Iudea, where the Churches at that time were not planted, or if they were, it was newly done, and these Christians no doubt were extraor­dinarily called to the same; and mee thinkes there is such strength in the particle (therefore) of Act. 8.4. the scope of that Chapter being to declare the persecution of the Church, and of the stoning of Saint Steven, and of his buriall, then comes the holy Ghost with an inference; (therefore) those that were scattered abroad preached the Word, implying, that had not that persecution beene, and that the Apostles had not thought fit to suspend their preaching in these places, there had beene no such gate opened for these men to doe as they did; and besides also in the next verse, speaking of Philip, who was but a Deacon, serves to illustrate this point, for in the fifth verse, he went into Samaria and preached there, which he could not have done, nor could he, had it not beene a thing extraor­dinary, and therefore well sayes At this time Philip, who was but a Deacon might preach, necessi­ty requiring it, Ibidem. Master Gaulter upon the place, now if this was a thing necessary and so extraordi­nary in Philip, who was an under Church officer; why not in the Christians who were no Church officers at all, and wee finde also that Philip was one of those seven Deacons chosen [Page 7]in the sixth of Acts, front all which I argue thus.

That persons which could not performe the place of an in­feriour Church officer, without being ordeined by the Church, could not much lesse performe a greater office, unlesse called by the Church.

But the first is true, Acts 6.5, 6. as was instanced in the Dea­cons, Ergo, so is the second.

Furthermore it was never the practise of any either in the old or new Testament, that was not in office in the Church, and designed to publike preaching of the Word, that did ever take upon them to preach, Neither is there any one except those which are cal­led extraordi­narily which can have any assurance of an inward calling but by meanes of the outward. Cart. 2. rep. 1. part. pag. 260. but upon an extraordinary occa­sion, and in case of necessitie, as here these men did, let the contrary be proved, and you may write to some purpose. As for the Apostles, they were called extraordinarily by Christ him­selfe, inwardly by his Spirit, and outwardly by his owne voyce, onely Saint Paul, to whom was added Barnabas, was after Christs ascention called to the worke of the Ministery, yet neither of these two, but had the confirmation of their calling, the one by Ananias, the other by those of Antioch, as also in Act. 11. Barnabas was sent by the Church at Jerusalem.

For no doubt But God could have given Paul his sight, without the laying on of the hands of Ananias, but God to shew that he loves order, and that although he can doe things altogether by himselfe, yet he is pleased to use man as an in­strument to worke by, and without whom some things cannot be done without manifest violation and breach of his Law, as here it is evident Ananias was sent by Christ, that Paul might receive his sight and the holy Ghost, that so he might preach the Gospel, now if you will have such sending here as is mentioned in the 10. Rom. 15. and such preaching too, although it is won­derfull to see what a strange collection you fetch from the 10. of Rom. but I for my part take it, that the Apostle speakes there of the extraordinary sending, and if you please to looke in the Margent Although Paul in this place speak of calling and sending, and this is as I said, ordinary, and extraordinary; there is no doubt but hee speakes here of the extraor­dinary, Pet. Mart. on this place of the 10. to the Rom. Paul doth not here speak of the lawfull calling of eve­ry man, Calvin upon the place. you shall see the expositions of two excellent ju­dicious, and learned Divines, so that if you collect any thing from these places it must be applyed to extraordinary practise, and if you can plead, and make good the calling to be extra­ordinary, then you have a sufficient warrant for the fact, but [Page 8]if you cannot, you must answer to God for your intrusion to such an office, without a sufficient warrant from the Church, and besides, the sincere Ministers of Jesus Christ are utterly against you in the universalitie of this your practise.

But you alleadge the fact of the woman of Samaria, at which a man may wonder at; the woman of Samaria went and told the Samaritans what Christ sayd to her; Ergo, a lay man may publikely preach the Gospell; here is an excellent consequence, that hath neither forme nor fashion in it, you might better have concluded that women may preach; for consider judiciously what passage is there in this womans fact, (which you would have ordinary, and inevitable) but may bet­ter be applyed to women than to men, and if you are of that minde, then you shall heare the judgement of Divines in that point, The Mini­stery of the Church is not to be commit­ted unto wo­men, but to men. Ursin. Cat. pag. 588. Eng. Our Saviour Christ hath joyned the preaching of the Word, and the admini­stration of the Sacraments to­getle; and this S. Paul knew by the Com­mandement, of Christ, whereupon it follows, that as women may not baptise, so they may not preach. Cart. Rep. to Whitgift. pag. 109. That which these Samaritans beleeved was, that this Christ was the promised Messiah, which yet was not so certaine by the womans report, as appeares in the 42. verse; Now there is difference be tween beleeving on him generally to be the Messiah, and in particuler for ones salvation; in the first sence the Samaritans beleeved at the womans report, in the second sence when they came to Christ. I but the Samaritans beleeved at the report of the woman; What then, therefore a woman may preach? stay good sir, you are too wide, this woman did no more then call her neighbour Citizens to Christ, being convinced in her con­science that he was the Messias, which Christ in plaine tearmes told her, she being now overjoyed to communicate that to others which she now had her selfe, leaving her water pot be­hinde her, and making hast to informe her neighbours, not onely that he told all that ever she did, but also desiring them to come themselves, and the Samaritans beleeved the womans report; to wit, that such a Prophet there was as was promised, being the Messias, and when they came to Christ themselves and had seene manifestations from him, then they beleeved on him, not so much for her speech, but because they had seene those things of him with their owne eyes, which made them cry out, this is the Saviour of the world; so that this womans fact was no more, but in generall termes to call her neighbour Citizens, Come, sayes she, and see a man that told me all that ever [Page 9]I did, is not this the Christ? She should have dealt very rashly, if she had taken up­on her the of­fice of teach­ing, but seeing she only desires to stir up her Citizens to heare Christ speak, we will not say that forgetting her selfe she went beyond her reach; she only playes the part of a Trumpet or Bell, that she might win men to Christ, for that which I finde in the Psal. 116.10. I beleeved, therefore have I spoke, must needs be true, and we must so much the more note the ear­nestnesse, and the gladnesse of the woman, because only a small sparkle of faith breeds them, for she had yet scarce tasted of Christ when she pub­lished him to the City. Calvin on the place. which was a very short Ser­mon, and was not so convincing till they had beene with Christ themselves; now what is all this to preaching, or to ones being sent that he might preach; you know Saint Paul saies, how shall they preach except they be sent? and sending is either ordinary or extraordinary, and if you will needs have this woman to be a Preacher, shew us her Commission. You will say she preached, but how is that proved? well sup­pose she did preach (for we will grant nothing) where is her sending mentioned? you will say it is not expressed, her fact is sufficient; I tell you that if she preached, and was not ordina­rily called, it followes, it was extraordinary, and so unimita­ble; and shew me if you can, any instance in the Scripture that ever any person tooke upon him to preach publikely, but they were called thereunto, not onely inwardly by God, but out­wardly by the Church, and that expressed in the Scripture, un­lesse in some cases extraordinary; so even the Apostles them­selves, who were extraordinary called, for their manner, yet their calling is set downe, both inward and outward also; and now if the Apostles, who were extraordinarily called for man­ner, and yet is set downe for all that; how comes it to passe, that the womans fact, which you would have ordinary is not set downe, seeing ordinary callings and ordinary actions, which the succeeding Churches was to walke by for directions, are not regestred? the Apostles as was sayd were extraordina­ry in the manner of their calling, and in the manner of the exemption of that to which they were called, but the substance of their dutie which they exempted, to wit, preaching was com­municated to posterity, else how hath God provided for his Church; but as for these allegations of yours out of the Acts, and of this woman of Samaria (if you will have her a Prea­cher) they were extraordinary both in circumstance and sub­stance; the reason of the first, because of the persecution at Jeru­salem, there were none now to preach the Gospell, but such as God had extraordinarily raised up, and you should doe well to shew us when here was ever any such practise of preaching by lay men in the times of the Apostles libertie and when they [Page 10]were freed from the stops and hinderances of persecution, then the cause could not possibly but winne credit to judicious un­derstanders; but when you can alleadge no examples then the woman of Samaria, and these Christians in the Acts, I must needs conclude to you as Christ did to the woman, vers. 22. yee worship you know not what, no more doe you of what you affirme, of the second for the reason before alleadged.

The next argument is taken from the 8. of Luk. 39. the man in whom Christ wrought the Miracle being possessed with divels, after the divels were gone from him, Christ bids him to goe to his owne house and tell what great things the Lord had done for him; ergo, a lay man may publikely preach the Gospell; this inference is like the former, well, but how prove you hee was a preacher? Marry because the Text saith, hee went and prea­ched, some copies read it Published; but it seemes where ever you finde the Word preached or prophesied in the Scripture, though God he knowes the meaning is farre otherwise, where in this case the holy Ghost onely by way of Narration hath set downe this miracle, and how the person in whom it was wrought, published it, for the joy that possessed him; and why doe not you as well conclude that because those two blind men in Matth. 9.31. that had received their sight, were Preachers too, for the Text saith, they spread abroad his fame in all that coun­trey, and you may better so conclude from these two then from the other, because these two proclaime his fame. Why although it be a generall expression, yet containes more in it then that, and may as well have relation to Christs doctrine, as to that particular miracle he did to them; in this there was but a dis­possession of those divels, and this proclaiming of what Jesus had done for him, now if you will needs have this man to be a Preacher too, and so a warrant for you, you may be pleased to know, that although he had no extraordinary spirit, yet the fact may and was For some things are ex­traordinary be­sides the pen­ning of Scrip­ture and work­ing of Mira­cles, as we see in Timothy and Titus, for they went up and down and per­formed the offices [...]f Vice-Apostles when yet they were mediatly cal­led by the Church. extraordinary, because that hee in so doing had the command of Christ, Christ pur­posely com­mandeth him to shew forth the worke of God, so that he being ac­counted for a true Prophet and Minister of God might so get the more credit to his doctrine, Calvin on the place. and that from his owne mouth, which I thinke you will confesse to be extraordinary, doe you thinke or suppose if the ordinary way as Christ pre­scribes [Page 11]in Matth. 17.21? if doing Miracles were performed by some Ministers to restore a man from some soare disease, or to dispossesse him from Satan by Prayer and Fasting, would not you (if such a one should disperse that act through a whole Ci­tie, when he was wished onely to goe to his owne house and to declare what great things the Lord hath done for him) con­clude him that so did to be a Preacher. I know you would; else what can you make of this example, certainely these be very strange collections, to say, that because such a one reeceived such a perticular mercy by Prayer and Fasting, and proclaimed it to his friends or neare neighbours, and to those of his neere acquaintance; he was therefore a Preacher; so here, the Act on Christs part was suddaine, and so no doubt but extraordina­ry, and upon the suddaine performance of the same, the man proclaimed what Christ had so done, being full of great joy, that if he could he would, as the Text saith, have continued with Christ; and may not you as well conclude that those two blind men were Preachers, for they did the same that this man did in spreading abroad his fame, if you say that these two were not sent, but the other were, then let mee aske you this question, where is it said that the woman of Samaria was sent? and yet you will have her a Preacher, and besides upon the same ground that you take her to be a Preacher, upon the same will I prove the two blind men to be so too, for the wo­man she called her Citizens to come to Christ, the other which was dispossessed of the divels went and preached what things God had done for him, and these two blind men that Christ cured, went and spread his fame abroad, now if it be a sufficient proofe to make a dissent, in these actions because the one Text saith, the one preached, and the other hath it not, and so to make a difference upon the word (Preaching) which in the sence is all one, I leave all men to judge.

Furthermore, if the uttermost that you can gather from this place be granted you, that this man did preach, yet you cannot hence prove your calling, to wit that a Lay man may publikely preach, being not called by the Church, when there is the meanes that may be afforded for that end, because Christ sent this man out by his voyce and command, and so must [Page 12]needs be extraordinary, and that not because he wanted an ex­traordinary spirit, but because he being no Church officer, nor was mediatly called or sent, but immediatly, for as was said before, some things were extraordinary besides penning of Scripture, and the workes of Miracles, as those actions perfor­med by Timothy and Titus, they were extraordinary persons, &c did and performed acts and offices that were extraordinary for their manner, and their performances made them extraordi­ry men, whence they are called Ewangelists, and although they were mediatly called by the Church, yet the execution of that to which they were called made them extraordinary, but here this man was not onely extraordinary in what he did, but also was extraordinarily sent from Christs owne vocall commissi­on; now if Timothy and Titus were extraordinary because they did actions extraordinary for their manner, why is not this man extraordinary, when he was not onely extraordina­rily sent, but did execute that also, in an extraordinary manner to which purpose he was sent, neither was a Church offi­cer? likewise it behoves you to prove that these actions per­formed by the scattered Christians, and the woman, and this man, were perpetually so done by them, and not once or twice, which you cannot prove, for there was good reason for them now to doe that, but not as Church officers, and so left imitable to posteritie, but as the Christians for the necessitie that then was, the woman and the man for the great joy that did then possesse them, when Christ did those things for them.

To that other allegation of yours from that speech of Moses, Numb. 11.29. where he wishes that all the Lords people were Prophets, is very impertinent to this purpose: do you not know to what end this speech of Moses was, or is your skill in com­paring spirituall things with spirituall, so weake that you know not how to apply them when they are compared, or else in comparing them not right, you apply them to a wrong end? for according to your manner of reasoning, the argument runs thus; Moses wished that all the Lords people were Prophets, therefore a Lay man, or he that is no Church officer may out of extraordinary times preach the word publikely, which is as [Page 13]farre from true reasoning, as Jerusalem from Amsterda [...], but you cannot bee so ignorant as you make your selfe, that the meaning may be this, that they were Prophets, that is, that they had a spirit of prophecie, to sound forth the praises of God and to expresse the same by Timbrels and other Musicall Instru­ments as Elisha did in the same manner, 2 King. 3.15. but to put you out of all doubts, because we will not use conjectures in so plaine a matter, the true sence is this, which doth best agree with the order of the story in this, Numb. 11.39. and in a plaine Narration you may be pleased to understand that these Israelites mentioned in the Chapter did murmure and com­plaine verse. 1. Moses he being not able to beare this burthen, de­sires the Lord in a possionate expression that be might die, vers. 14.15. But God moved with the complaint and griefe of his servant yeeldeth him helpers to beare his burden with him, that so he might have the more comfort, vers. 16. these 70. men will he have furnished with his Spirit; never placing any to doe a dutie, to whem he gives not a measure of abilitie to doe the same, and God did here extraordinarily call them to be assistant to Moses in this worke of government, and to con­firme this calling, he did as he promised Moses, tooke off the spirit that was on him, and gave it to these Eldres, vers. 25. now so soone as this was done the Text saith, they prophesied and did not cease, which prophesie did consist in sounding forth Gods praises and also in ministring assistance to Moses in this worke of go­vernment; now what Moses meant by wishing that all the Lords people were Prophets, is easie to finde, for his wish was spoken in relation to Eldad, and Medads phophesying in the Campe, peruse the Chapter well, and you cannot but see in what sence Moses words are to be taken, that had it not beene that those two Elders were in the Campe who were spoken against by Joshua, Moses servant, that expression had never beene utte­red by him towards the people, the two Elders being in the Campe, a young man ran and told Moses, and said; Elad and Medad doe prophesie in the Campe, and Joshua the servant of Moses said, My Lord Moses forbad them, Moses he answers him with a reproofe. Enviest thou them for my sake, saith he, would God that the all Lords people were Prophets, whereby it appeares that [Page 14] Moses his speech must needs carry a dependance and reference to those two Elders in the Camp; or else it were very incon­gruous: Now shall I aske you this question? Had not Moses some ground for his wish, and is not this wish spoken with re­ference to those two Elders? I know you cannot deny it; doth it not follow then by necessary consequence, that as the Spirit (that God took from Moses, and put it upon these Elders, and which Spirit Moses wished were in the Lords people) was a spirit of Government, which those Elders were to share in with Moses, and which would have produced a happy effect in the people; if they had had the same: Will you see an exam­ple to illustrate this point; Let the example of Saul then bee here brought forth; and which comes next to be answered. That as he was extraordinarily called by God to his Kingly office, so was this his calling confirmed to him by the pouring of his Spirit on him. 1 Sam. 10.6. Such an example we have likewise in Gideon, in the 6. Judges 34. Who by this signe of prophecie, and other things joyning with it, had his place con­firmed to him, the Spirit it selfe was a Spirit of government and of courage and magnanimity to support them, and to fill them with sufficiency for the performance of those places that God had designed them to.

The prophecying it selfe consisted in sounding out Gods praises by the instinct of that Spirit they now had, with Psilte­ry, Tabret, and Pipe, and in this very sence are those places to bee understood of Gideon, 1 Sam. 10.5. and Saul, and Elisha, as also a pregnant place to his purpose of Joduthun in 1 Chron. 25.3. who is said to prophesie with a Hurpe, and to give thankes and praise to the Lord, by all which it may ap­peare what is the true revealed intent of the holy Ghost in Mo­ses speech, to wit;

That the Lord would if hee so pleased poure upon these people (who before did murmure) a spirit of government, Paraphrased. that so they might know how to carry themselves towards their God and his servant Moses their governour, and these 70. Elders, whom hee had extraordinarily and specially designed for that purpose.

To that other objection of Saul, in 1 Sam. 10.6. and you have it, 1 Sam. 6.10. but it is no great matter, wee will passe that by, because the whole booke almost is full fraught with ill applications and misconstructions: to the place of Samuel then I answer, that the meaning of Sauls prophesying is as was sayd before, to sound forth Gods praises, by the instinct of that Spirit he now had, with those Prophets in the fifth verse, Or changed his spirit. the whole story is this.

Foure things Samuel had prophesied concerning Saul, after his annointing and departing from him and that when these things came to passe, Saul might be assured of Gods calling of him to be King; the signes were these.

1. That when he was departed, he should sinde two men by Rachels Sepulchre, vers. 3.

2. That after that hee should meets three men going to Bethel to the house of God, vers. 3.

3. After that he should meete a company of Prophets with Harpe, Tabret, Pipes, &c.

4. When he came thus farre and saw these Prophers, then the Spirit of the Lord should come upon him, and he should prophesie with them.

Now when all these came upon [...], he might be assured in the accomplishment of these prophesies that God had called him to be the ruler of the people, and that he should doe them is nocasion served, for the hand ( verse 7.) of th [...] Lord was with hime; so that it seemes undeninbly that Sauls prophesying amongst these Prophets; was such prophesying as theirs was; for so the words (with them) doe clearely intimate the spirit it selfe was poured upon him for the consirmation of his calling, and the effect of that Spirit, filling of him with strength and valour, and also to sound out Gods praises; and besides the holy Ghost hath thought sit to expresse the man­ner thereof (the Spirit of the Lord came upon him) now God gives his spirit either visibly, or else invisibly; the one is extra­ordinary, the other ordinary.

Now the holy Glibst came upon Saub in a visible manner, not by any locall appearance The holy Ghost comes visibly not by any locall mo­tion, but by the signes, he workes, onely the signes is taken for the thing it selfe, Vrsin Cau but by those signes which were produced to the eyes & senses of the by standers, his operations; [Page 16]not by any locall or visible sight of himselfe, but by those effects which he wrought.

The holy Ghost is given invisibly when hee bestowes his gifts, not so much with infallible, outward, & externall restimo­nies, as by an inward operation on the faculties of the soule, in measures, and so is given to wicked men, and the elect; to wick­ed men at the best speculatively regenerating them; to the elect both speculatively and practically.

The spirit then was given to Saul in an extraordinary man­ner visibly by those effects he did produce, The gifts of the Holy Ghost, as Mi­r [...]cles, and Tongues, Prophesies were given in the Apostles times in an ex­traordinary manner. ibid. so that it appeares that his example serves your turne not one whit, for if the ho­ly Ghost came upon Saul in an extraordinary manner, and that this his prophesying consisted in praysing God with Tabret, Pipe, as the Prophets did in the sift verse, and hee with them, then what can this prove to your purpose? & as the holy Ghost was given to the Apostles in the primitive Church extraordi­narily & immediatly because of those effects they did produce, why not upon Saul who had this spirit given him immediatly as appeares by the effects they wrought in him? as making him another man, and by his prophesying, all which were confirmati­ons extraordinary to confirme his calling of being King, which was extraordinary also, the like we see in David, 1 Sam. 16.13. who had the Spirit poured upon him in the same manner as it was on Saul, and all to fit him for those weightie duties of his kingly office, and although David had not such visible conspi­ouous signes at his annointing as Saul had, yet wee reade in 1 Sam. 16.18. that he was strong, valiant, a man of warre; in so much that it is said, 1 Sam. 18.14, 15. that Saul was afraid of him, all which things being laid together will evince this truth, to wit that these were extraordinary Spirits in their manner of being given to certaine persons; again if Saul were a Preacher, as this allegation seemes to insinuate, then a question would be asked, to vvhom did he preach? It is said indeed he prophesi­ed, but there is divers kinds of prophesie in Scripture, onely the Text saith he prophesied with the rest of the Prophets but not that he preached to any, for hee neither did as the Samaritan woman did, nor as the man in whom the devils vvere; and tru­ly their actions and performance of them doe manifest a dispa­ritie, [Page 17]the woman went onely and told what things had passed betweene her selfe and Christ. The man preached it, but as for King Saul, he prophesied by the instinct of that spirit he now had in praysing and singing with instruments of musicke to God, which did confirme him in his extraordinary call of being King, all which you could not chuse but know, onely it seemes you are disposed to make the world merry.

To the next, 1 Sam. 19.20. where Saul is said to send messen­gers to David, and that they prophesied, that is all one with the other, 1 Sam. 10.6. and Sauls messengers here prophesied, with the rest of the Prophets, as Saul himselfe did there, and their prophesying must needs have reference to the prophe­sying of the Prophets, for so the words imply, that when these messengers came and said the colledge or company of the Prophets, then saith the Text, they also prophesied, and so al­so in the same manner did Saul himselfe prophesie; Now what this prophesie was is expressed in 1 Sam. 10.6. as before was declared, it consisted in sounding forth Gods praises with Ta­bret, Pipe, Harpe, and as Jeduthun did, 1 Chron. 25.3. and this was to declare the infinite power and mercy of God towards David, whom Saul now had an intent to have slaine, as ap­peares by the whole Chapter, Saul sending his messengers, and going himselfe, yet all could not doe, nor bring to a full period his wicked designes against David, the like example wee have in 2 King. 1. of those two Captaines and their fifties, that came to apprehend the Prophet Eliah, these men thinking to bring the Prophet to King Ahaziah, their ends were frustrated, and they themselves were consumed with fire from heaven, wherein the power & mercy of God, was also manifested towards Eliah. So that it appeares here, it was the wonderful mercy of God to David to deliver him from the hands of Saul & his messengers, the opportunitie being so, that notwithstanding Saul sent time after time, yet God so ordered the matter, that these messen­gers being sent from Saul who was enraged against him, vers. 10. could not have accesse, much lesse to doe him any wrong; so gracious is the Lord, that to vindicate his peoples innocency or else his owne in them, that the strongest assaults of wicked men, though attended with never so much policie, shall chal­lenge [Page 18]no successe but by his over-ruling power, not that God had a speciall ayme that these men should be Preachers, much lesse to be example therein to posteritie, but onely that God might deliver David from the hands of Saul; nay, Saul himself, who like Herod, after he had sent forth the wise men to dis­cover Christ but came not againe, was now as much in his bed­lam moods as Saul was at this time, who went himselfe to Ramah, and the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, and he prophesi­ed and rent his cloathes, as an infallible testimony of a convicted conscience for pursuing so innocent a man as David was; an excellent example wee have to this purpose in the 7. of John. 46. of the Pharisees who sent their messengers to fetch Christ before them, but contrary to their expectation, that in stead of these mens intended fact of taking Christ, Christ tooke them, and as they came to apprehend Christ, as Sauls messengers did David, they were so wrought upon by his powerfull speeches, that in the 46. verse they cry out, That never man spake like this man; and you may better conclude that these servants of the Pharisees were Preachers, then Sauls messengers; and the reason is stronger in them then in the other; for,

Sauls messengers prophesied among the Prophets when there was not such neede, but onely here that the workes of God might be made manifest, turning that into good which these men intended for evill, and never returned againe, to give Saul account of his message. But here these men that came to Christ had their eyes opened, and had some smatterings of il­lumination that he was Christ, and did also returne to the Pha­risees againe, declaring Christs saying, Never man spake like this man; these men had beene better presidents for you to have pro­ved the point; all the marrow of the businesse I see lies in this one word (Prophesie) which if you were at a dead lift, as here you are, can never helpe you, considering its divers accepta­tions.

As for that you say afterwards, that these men were no way extraordinary, for so your words imply, they had no extraordi­nary spirit, Ergo; were not extraordinary.

Here you shew your selfe either very ignorant in the Scrip­tures, or else your writing at this time was very rash and incon­siderate, [Page 19]and because I have here just occasion to speake of that I mentioned before, let me aske you this question.

If nothing were extraordinary but the penning of Scripture and the workes of Miracles, Qyest how shall we dispute against the Hierarchie to prove that Timothy and Titus were extraordi­nary Officers, by those offices and acts which they did, if no­thing were extraordinary but what you say? for you affirme (when it was objected that these men had extraordinary spi­rits) that none had extraordinary spirits but they that pen'd the Scriptures, or wrought Miracles, implying, that because they had not extraordinary spirits in penning Scriptures or work­ing Miracles, therefore they were not extraordinary, and so you have with one puffe taken away all the strength of the An­tiepiscopall partie, and given occasion to them to triumph in the discord which they maliciously attribute to our Divines; for my part I leave you either to cleare your selfe, or else to ac­knowledge your errour, for it is manifest abroad in the world, that by reason of the ill, unadvised, rash, inconsiderate, imper­tinent Pamphlets that are now extant (setting some aside) the adversaries of a through reformation do not sticke to say in their Bedlam fits, that all dissentions about the Church are set on foot, by the occasion of our best and sincerest Divines.

To the next you say, that such a spirit as this was promised to all Gods people.

It is most true, that God hath promised to his people a spirit of Prophesie, but now all the question is what this kinde of Prophesying is, because it serves much for the illustration of this point, and the opening of this Text; there are then divers acceptations of the word Prophesie in Scripture.

1. It is taken in the strictest sence, for foretelling things to come, thus the Prophets, as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel were Pro­phets.

2. For publike preaching the Word, by Sermons to the Church, so it is taken and attributed to the Shepherds of Israel, men in a publike office in the Church, Ezek. 34.2. Isa. 56.10.

3. For private interpretation (yet not being contrariant to publike doctrines that are true) for the use and benefit of the Church, so it is taken in 1 Cor. 14. now although these men [Page 20]here of Corinth did according to their gifts given them, Wee doe not read in all these two E­pistles to the Corinthians, that there were any setled Pastors, and therefore these mens prophesying in the publike meetings, was without all doubt extraor­dinary. exer­cise publikely, yet they did not doe it as publike Church Of­ficers, but as men private, not in what they did, but as they were, for there were now as is thought, no publike Church Of­ficers, and the Apostles with their fellow Labourers did conti­nually visit them, both by personall presence, and Epistles.

4. For sounding forth Gods praises by musicall instru­ments, as Harps, Pipes, &c. so it is taken in 1 Sam. 10.5. 1 Chron. 25.3.

5. For professing and celebrating God, so all Gods peo­ple doe prophesie, and are likewise Prophets, Gen. 20.7. Matth. 10.32.

Now in what sence you take this speech in the 2. Acts 18. is presently proved, for you take it to be meant of a Spirit of prophesie, to consist not only to interpret Scriptures privately, but publikely too; and it so appeares, because you bring this Text to prove a promise made to some, nay to all Gods peo­ple, to enable them publikely to dispence the heavenly Miste­ries of Salvation: but now what reason can you bring to prove this Text is to be so expounded, I see not; if you can produce none but your own fancy, then you will give me leave to dis­sent from you for this reason: you know the Scriptures call Gods people Prophets, as before was instanced, and if they are Prophets, then they have a propheticall office, which con­sists (according to your description) in publike Preaching of the Word of God, as well as professing it; only you are defici­ent in your proving it, unlesse your bare affirmations bee proofes; but Sir, one word with you, let me tell you as a friend, you have done wonderfull wrong to the sacred Scrip­tures, thus to abuse them by such wretched and extorted Ex­positions; the true meaning of the place is this, as if Saint Pe­ter had said, or the Lord by Saint Peter. I will poure out my Spirit in those dayes, and on your Sons, Daughters, I will poure out my Spirit, and they shall prophesie: That is, So Vrsinus ex­pounds the place. Professe my Name, Truth, walk according to those dictates of my Spirit, celebra­ting and praising me; so that it appeares that this your mi­stake issues from an universall Exposition of a Word, which you see admits of divers acceptations (Prophesie) is the onely [Page 21]beame that hides the truth from approaching your judgement; it is true that all Preaching is Prophesying, but all Prophesie is not Preaching, and I wonder a man should be so miserably mistaken, as to expose himselfe to the publike censures of lear­ned Divines, who cry out in their Pulpits against such imperti­nent allegations, certainly if wee had but the Presbyteriall di­scipline established in the Church O Lord who can pati­ently heare this horrible disor­der ascribed to the Apostles Church, which here you attri­bute unto it, that every one hand overhead Preached, Bap­tized, and ex­pounded the Scriptures; what a win­dow, nay what a gate is here opened to A­nabaptists to confirme their fantasticall o­pinion, where­in they hold that every man whom the Spi­rit moves, may come even from the Plough-taile to to the Pulpit to Preach the Word of God, Cart. 1. Rep. to Whitg p [...]. 38. you would goe neare to come under the sconrge of Ecclesiasticall censure, for bro [...]h­ing such detestable opinions, although you never practised them, because herein you open wide the mouthes of the Ana­baptists; and in the meane time if you repent not of this your sinne, you shall certainly answer to that God before whom there is no respect of persons in the dispensations of his justice, and chastisements, and if a Spirit of Prophecy be admitted in your sence, then it will follow, that all Gods people must bee publike Preachers, for what other sence or interpretation can the words admit, or your allegations from this Text, for the holy Chost saith (they shall Prophesie) and you say this Pro­phesie is publike Preaching, which is a pretty exposition and serves excellent well to trouble the Church.

As for that you say, that some object and say, that this pro­mise was made good in the Apostles times, are you able to disprove them that so say, or doe you know what you doe in taking upon to answer such an objection. All that you can say is (If in the Apostles times they were called the last times, much more now) all this is true in it self, but it behooved you to shew, that the last times there mentioned are our last times in which we live, for it is not to be denied but the Apostles times were the last times, and the last times, are also our times, and there­fore the Apostles, as Peter and Paul, when they speake of the last times do give us evident light, that when such or such things come to passe that then we may assure our selves that those last times are the last times they meane, and so when the Apostle saith in the last dayes, or towards them, shall come perillous times, wherein men shall be lovers of themselves, covetous, proud, boastors, cursed speakers, &c. and this signe saith Mr. Perkins hath beene, in former ages, and is no doubt at this day in the world.

So you see that some times are sayd to bee the last times not because they are so in themselves but with reference to certaine speciall things which then happen; now the last times here in Joels prophesie, and in Saint Peters allegati­tion is (as That the Jewes might know the Church could not be repaired which was now lmost ruined, but by the Mes­sies, that is the sence [...] Cal [...]in on the see and of Acts. Calvin excellently notes) spoken in refe­rence to the going out of the Jewish Church, for so his words import, which was some foure or five hundred yeares after Joels prophesie, and therefore they that sayd this Prophesie was fulfilled in the Apostles time, say more then you shall ever bee able to disprove; yet you must take some limitation; this promise was not so universally fulfilled in the Apostles time It comprehends a larger knowledge of him which was to bee given to the faithfull in the Kingdome of Christ, Cal. inst. pag. 706. as that the people of God in after ages reape no benefit from it, but the speciall thing in Ioels Prophe­sie, as visions, telling things to come, was fulfilled in the Apo­stles time, as appeares by Saint Peters al­legation, and therefore Protestant Divines doe affirme against the Jesuites that this promise was fulfilled in the Apostles daies, so saith In his Synop [...]ap St. Peter shewed how these prophe [...]es were fulfilled, when the holy Ghost was sent like fiery cloven tongues, and he ci [...]eth the very words of Joel to confirme the same Saying. Dr. Williams true Church, pag. 547. Dr. Willet Ruffinus an anci­ent writer saith they are impudent that thinke otherwise, onely Cornelius a Lapide, a lear­ned Jesuite, with Bellarmine, and deny it, because forsooth, they alledge this place of Acts to prove their Church are ne­ver without Prophets that can foretell things to come.

But the other part of this Prophesie in Acts 2. verse 18. doth belong to Gods people to the end of the World and doth conteine a spirit of conformitie, and of professing the name, truth of God; so Calvin and Ʋrsinus expound the place; Calvin saith it is referred to the worshippers of God, those that are in Covenant with him, &c. Ʋrsinus of pro­fessing and celebrating God, so that from hence it is evi­dent, you can have small comfort from these Texts; And I must further admonish you, to take heede, ere you bee aware lest you slide into the Tents of the Papists while you thus plead for a Text, and the exposition thereof.

To the next, contained in six Answers: None is fit for the work of the Ministry, unlesse he be skilled in Arts & Tongues, for if he be not so qualified, how shall he be able to answer the learned Adversary? Neither is it your answer that hath, or ever will prove the contrary; if you had said, The true under­standing of the Scripture comes not only by humane learning, then your speech might have been admitted, and the Texts of Scripture that you have alleadged, prove nothing to this pur­pose, or if they did, yet they doe not exclude humane Learn­ing; the scope of the Apostles meaning in that place of 1 Cor. 2.13. and yours is, 2 Cor. 2.13. is to shew that we cannot understand or know that Eternall Love, that superabounding mercy, that incomprehensible sweetnesse that is to be found in the powerfull wayes of Jesus Christ, but by the Spirit; this is evidently proved from the foregoing Chapter; the Apostle speaking that Christ was made unto us Wisdome, Righteous­nesse, Sanctification, and Redemption, proceeds all along, tel­ling us that we cannot know these things but by the Spirit, for as no man knowes the things of man, but the spirit of a man which is in him, so nothing can reveale Gods love to the soule concerning Predestination, and Sanctification, but the Holy Ghost, which sheds abroad the love of God in the hearts of his people; and as Jesus Christ doth impart these things by his Spirit to his people, so he sends his Ministers to preach the same, not in the words of mans wisdome, but in the demon­stration of the Spirit. Now I would intreat you in the next Pamphlet, to tell me if there be not a large difference be­tween the interpretation of the true and universall, revealed meaning of the Holy Ghost in the sacred Scriptures, as well by the understanding of the Originall, and line reading, point­ing, collation, as by the Spirit himselfe: And the certifica­tion of those things that concerne a mans Eternall Salvation, by the same Spirit, which lye hid in Gods everlasting love, yet revealed in the Scriptures, of which the Apostle here speaks: It is true, a man my run into extreames as well one way as in another; And as he that is skilled in Arts and Tongues, without the light of the holy Ghost, cannot universally interpret & apply [Page 24]Scripture according to the minde of Christ, so a man that is destitute of skill in Arts and Tongues, and hath nothing in him, but that light which proceeds from Gods Spirit, cannot on the other side expound according to the originall, for God workes by meanes, he will and doth convey his minde revea­led, so farre forth as men can comprehend him, with the con­jurison of those meanes he hath ordeined instrumentally to communicate himselfe; now your selfe saith, that this may be desired in those that want it, besides the Apostle wishes that the Corinthians had the gifts of tongues, calling it a spirituall gift; now if this be a spirituall gift, and ought to be desired, and witout which a man cannot interpret according to that tongue in which the holy Ghost spake, then God doth com­municate himselfe more to him in larger measures of his re­vealed will by those meanes he hath ordeined and commen­ded to that purpose, then to him who is deficient in the enjoy­ment of those meanes, by which he so conveyes himselfe, and so he that is universally qualified and hath both these, is fit for the vvorke of the ministery, Therefore to the end that unquiet and troublesome men should rashly thrust in themselves to teach or rule; it is expresly pro­vi [...]ed, that no m [...]n should without cal­ling take upon him a publike offic [...] in the Church unlesse called. This we may often­times marke in Pa [...]l, when hee meanes to ap­prove his A­postleship, hee doth alledge his calling; if so great a Mi­nister dare not take this upon him but by the commande­ment of the Lord, how great shame­fulnesse shall it be, if any man wanting either of these shall challenge such honour to himselfe, Calv. iustit. pag. 522. and so is not he that is wanting in either; true it is that Jesus Christ hath not greater adversa­ries then those that are greatly learned, and unsanctified, wit­nesse the Pharisees; but yet againe, he hath no greater friends and souldiers to fight his battels (although vilified by the world) then those who have those humane excellencies sancti­fied unto them; to the other five answers, because they are for their substance conteined in the first, and are answered in that, I will here passe them by and come to the next, where you say;

All the call mentioned in Scripture, was the peoples great necessitie, and their great willingnesse to heare is most untrue; yet to be admitted in cases extraordinary, and if you had made that limitation you had done well, but when your speeches are indefinite, making no caution and restruction, where it is required, you shew your palpable ignorance, for God hath pre­scribed other things as additionall to the calling of a Minister publikely to preach the Word, besides the peoples necessitie and their owne willingnesse, his orders must be observed, not neglected, now the peoples necessitie is to be relatively consi­dered, [Page 25]and so made their election, but before a Minister can be compleatly fitted for the publike function of the Church, hee must be ordained by the Presbytery, for if none be fit for the publike function of the Ministery, but men sufficiently learned, as before was declared, how can the people judge of his ability who have no knowledge therein? And if the Apostles would not have any to execute the office of a Deacon in the Church, which was a lesser, and an inferior Church-officer, why should those that are designed to a greater and more publike duty miss of that confirmation? And You should understand that the assu­rance of the in­ward calling dependeth up­on the out­ward, for al­beit the Spirit of God work­eth that assu­rance, yet he worketh by the outward means, by the judge­ment of the Elders, and of the Church, touching his aptnesse for the Ministery, whilest he con­sidereth that calling is not the calling of men, but of God, through the Ministry of men; so that this separation of the know­ledge of an in­ward calling from the out­ward is not on­ly absurd, but confirmes the An [...]baptists, which boast of an inward cal­ling, where no calling of the Church went before. Cart. 2. rep. to Whitg. 1. part. p. 260, 261. although a man can plead never so much his inward calling, yet sent he must be as well by the Church, as by God himselfe; and shew if you can any person in the New or Old Testament, that ever publikely Preached, unlesse in extraordinary cases, but he was confirmed in his cal­ling by the Church; now what necessity you can plead is some­what hard to be understood; doubtlesse there was no necessity in you so to doe, when there were godly Divines and others to do it; or is your necessity so great, as those Christians in the 8. Acts when there were none at all, but the Apostles now at the perse­cuted Church at Jerusalem? if you object, that those Ministers that did so preach, did not Preach Jesus Christ purely; what of that, they preached him truly, did they overthrow any sub­stantiall points of Faith? the Apostle Paul notwithstanding did rejoyce when some preach Christ out of envy: so although they preached him not purely, yet they preached him truly.

To the next.

Spenc. That it may be lawfull in a mans family, but not in a Church.

Answ. And so it may be lawfull in a mans family, but not in a Church.

For as there is no member of the body of Jesus Christ, but is of the same nature of the whole, a publike member of a publike body, and the spirit proceeding from the head to every member is one and the same spirit, and his gifts of like nature, publike gifts of a publike spirit, for the good of the whole body; and so though they be mem­bers of one body, and are to be assistant one to another in that body, yet can these members performe the duties of each other? indeed in the generall they may because the generalitie [Page 26]of their duty is to be assistant; but here lies the question, whe­ther one member can performe the office of another, which is perticularly appropriated to him, and none other? or as you had it before, can the eye performe the office of the hand, or the hand of the eye? for as you say, though in respect of congre­gated bodies, the more part are out of office, yet as we are one body in Christ & members one of another, first all members may be generally assistant to the service of the whole, but can every member per­forme that which is specially affirmed of, and attributed to one? if you grant it, then factum est, it is done, Anabaptisme, and Anarchie, and all, we shall have come tumbling into the Church; for tell me, are not you he that said a little before from the A­postle, that the chiefest members cannot say to the least, I have no need of thee; now if every member can performe that which is specially affirmed of another, then how can you justifie your speech from the Apostle, who saith, the one hath need of the other, and if the one have need of the other, it followes that hee wants that in another which hee can­not performe himselfe; if one have no need of another, then he cannot onely doe that which properly is this, but that also which is specially attributed to another, and so you have falsi­fied the Apostle, and beaten your selfe with your owne weapon.

To the next, tis true, that in the worke of Reformation it is ne­cessary that all errours should be discovered, and all truths imbraced, but you have very slenderly proved that your universall pra­ctice is a truth, and if you bring no better reason then you have here in your booke published to the world, I am not afraid to tell you, that in stead of being truth, it is a most notorious un­truth, and such a one, that you going about to prove true, you have both exposed your selfe, to abundance of censure from godly Divines, but also shewed the ignorance in resting upon such broken Reeds that will never hold in the tryall, and be­sides, are there not abundance of faithfull Ministers of Jesus Christ that notwithstanding they have had their admission in­to their publike offices from the Prelates, yet doe preach Christ in his puritie, and doe not you here shew your pride, that dare take acception of their allowance by the Prelates for S [...]y a man have been trai­ned up in the Schols of lear­ning, and have never so great gifts, and fit­nesse to exer­cise a publike office in the Church, yet he may not take upon him to Minister till he first be ap­proved, 1. Tim. 3.10. that would open a gap to dange­rous Schismes in the Church, good therefore it is to hearken to the advice of the Apostle, Rom. 12.3. Hil­dersham on Joh. pag. 248. they would not preach the Word publikely, nor take upon [Page 27]them any publike function in the Church, unlesse they were ex­ternally allowed thereunto, and although there be imperfecti­ons in the same, yet Sir, the substance of it is conteined in their ordination, being onely this, that Ministers should be exami­ned, and proved for their abilitie to be apt to teach, 1 Tim. 3.2. and by sound doctrine to exhort and convince the gaine­sayers; now can every man that pretends the spirit be able to convince, nay are they able to speake a word to a learned ad­versary? and is it sit now that such should have any publike of­fice in the Church? In the 1 King. 12.31. it is noted by the holy Ghost as a fault in Jeroboam, that hee made Priests of the You know they meane the basest of the people, such as gave but one leap out of the Shop into the Church, as suddenly are changed from a Serving mans Coat, into a Ministers Cloak, making for the most part the Mini­stery their last Refuge. Cart. 1. rep. to Whitgift. pag. 26. lowest of the people, which was a great prophanation to the Ministry, and that he tooke them not out of the Tribe of Levi, which were men fitted and qualified for the Ministery, and if this were a fault in Jeroboam, because he chused such as he should not chuse, why shall it not be a fault and a great pre­sumption in you to take that function upon you without a call by the Church, and I am afraid that in stead of expecting a glo­rious Reformation, we may rather expect a hinderance of the same, occasioned by your practise, use your gifts you may in a private way (and it were to be wished, that you did not so tu­multuously draw such a number of people after you) the reason is because it doth open the mouths of the adversaries of a thorough Reformation, which if it were otherwise, might lesse offend good Christians, and upon the right performing of the same, might have good warrant from the Word of God.