I Know not whether I should find fault, or thank Sr. Robert How­ard for his late Book, called An Account of the State of his Ma­jesties Revenue, as it was left at Lady-Day 1679, &c. Because, upon Examination it will appear to have done me no injury, and has shewed the Examiner that there was nothing to be said in Justification of any other part of his Book, but only what concerned the State of the Revenue, as it was found by Me at June 1673. and left at Lady-Day, 1679.

Sir Robert does likewise shew how he detests such Scurrilous Language as the Examiner is full of; for in my Answer, I have but once called a certain untruth, a notorious Falshood, and Sr. Robert seems to be much offended at the Expression.

He shews himself also far more ingenuous than the Examiner was, for he confesses many Errors in the Examiners Book, although the Exa­miner be very positive in the defence of them; viz. In his absolute affir­ming [Page 2]that my Sallary was never included in secret service. In his double charging of 200000 l. on the one fifth of the Excise. And in saying that the whole Tax upon the first Act for Disbanding the Army was come into the Exchequer in my time, &c. which Sir Robert is so much my friend as to acknowledge, he believes to be otherwise, although he confesses, Fol. 7. that he has not given himself the trouble to examine it; and in the same page he sayes, he shall not meddle with their Arguments (meaning I suppose the Examiners Arguments and mine;) so as I perceive we must stand upon our own legs for what either of us have said, he being resol­ved only to give the Publick an Account how the Revenue was left at Lady day, 1679. and not to meddle with Politick Disputes, nor matters of State, which fills the greater number of Folioes in the Examiners Book.

Sir Robert does also know that if all the matters of Fact contained in his Book were true, it could be no Crime in me, that the Revenue was more or less in Debt at my leaving it: unless I had either lessened the In­come of the Revenue, or not truly answered the whole Income accor­ding to his Majesties Directions: or had diverted any of the Moneys gi­ven by Parliament to other uses than were limited by the several Acts; and he does not pretend to say any thing either as to the lessening, or not answering the whole Revenue; (but on the contrary confesses the Reve­nue to be increased in my time.) And for diverting any part thereof, he speaks as if some others did complain to him of it; but I do not under­stand that he directly charges any such thing himself; nor can any man do it but with great untruth: insomuch that were it not for some expressi­ons not so becoming a mans own Secretary to be guilty of, and that the time of publishing his Book hath not been so generously taken, as some men of Honour would have done, I should not only have forgiven but have thanked Sir Robert for the opportunity of clearing the integrity of my ma­nagement in the Treasury, however I may have been wanting in those abi­lities which God hath given to himself above other men: And he ought not to blame me, but my understanding, if I could not always comprehend such Schemes and Projects of his concerning the Revenue, whereof I have some still in my custody, which I must acknowledge I do not yet understand, any more than I did when I first received them.

That which makes me complain of the time Sir Robert has taken to divulge his Book, is, because it may be too reasonably suspected, that those Reasons he gives for having deferred it so many moneths, are not so pro­bable, as some other reasons may be, which he does not think fit to give, because if his Relations were not well at Tunbridge; yet it seems he was well himself; and how a man whose Office and Dwelling is in the Exche­quer, and who hath so great a controul over it, could want either Records or Certificates from other Offices so long as he hath taken to satisfie his Friends inquiry is not very likely.

But these Reasons were likely; First, That such a Book as this (though I dare say understood by very few that reads it,) would make a great noise against a man in my condition, in the time of a Parliaments Sitting. Secondly, That in Probability, it would be impossible for me under a con­finement, (and who am without Power to send for any Records or Pa­pers, and who am now without the help of those Officers who acted then under me) to give any full answer (during the sitting of Parliament) [Page 3]to what he has found so many months little enough to do, who had all the Leasure and Helps for it he could desire.

3. That being under Accusations in Parliament, I might probably be cal­led upon to answer them at this time; So as I should not only want lea­sure, but in all Likely-hood I could not have my thoughts free to attend to such a matter as this, when I had so much greater concerns upon my Hands.

And lastly, Though it contain nothing of Criminal in it; Yet it might be hoped that any small weight, which could not receive an Answer in due time, might contribute to the heightning of mens ill Opinions, against one he thought not yet enough Loaded with false Aspersions.

If this was the Design, (as I have too much reason to believe, both from what I have said, and because otherwise I do not believe he would have troubled himself, to have Writ, what he knows will be found to have so many mistakes) I do acknowledge, that he hath gained so much of his design, that I shall not be able, under my Circumstances, to give so full an Answer at present, as I hope to do hereafter; If my Condition will per­mit: And I doubt not but to make it appear, that I have said nothing in my first answer, but what I have still good reason to believe True.

In the mean time I shall endeavour to shew the Fallacies which are in many parts of his Book. The wrong State of the Questions to such Officers from whence he hath got Certificates; so as though the Certi­ficates may be true, yet they are not properly applied by Sr. Robert.

And lastly, The dis-ingenuous swelling of the Account, to make a noise to the world of a great Debt (besides the Anticipations) which will ap­pear to be no more any Ground for accusing my Management, than it hath been of my Predecessors, and must be of those who succeed me in the Treasury. As the Examiner I doubt not but knew very well, when he made no mention of it in the Range of his Malice, who made appear sufficiently, that he would not have spared those, nor any other particu­lars to have loaded his Charge; but that he knew how easily they would be answered.

As to the fallacious Glosses (of which he makes great use through­out his Book) he begins Folio 2. That the third Quarter of the Eighteen months Tax was signed (Osborn) And hopes from thence to have it infer­re'd, that I had the disposal of some of the Money of that Quarter, which I can prove that himself knows the contrary (as well as that I never was Lord Treasurer under the Title of Sr. Thomas Osborn;) And from the same Reason of my having signed that Quarter (which was done at the re­quest of my Lord Clifford, and for satisfaction of the Creditors on that Quarter; that they should not be Post-poned by my coming to the Treasury,) he would also have it believed, that the 21163 l. 6 s. 8 d. said in my Book to be charged by my Lord Clifford on the fourth Quar­ter of that Tax, was not so; But I must acknowledg he insists not much upon that matter; but ends that Paragraph, Folio 3, with a Confession, that be knows nothing of it.

His next pretence is, that upon the three last Quarters of that Tax, there appears to have been paid into the Exchequer, the Sum of 584718 l. 7 s. 5 d. which I call but 565498 l. 13 s. 10 d. ½, all the Charges be­ing deducted (as the forgiving any Receivers, or their Securities, &c.) [Page 4]which is notwithstanding made received in the Exchequer; as if it came to be disposable Money to the Kings use. And although I cannot now have the sight of Originals, I have great Confidence, that the Certificates I received of that matter before my leaving the Staff will prove my Computations to be true, when all the Circumstances are Examined.

In Folio's, Third, Fourth, Fifth, and part of the Sixth, he takes great Pains to show, that I did hinder and divert the Money on the one Fifth of the Excise, from being Paid into the Exchequer, as the Act of Parliment did direct; and says, Mr. Duncomb the Gold-smith did often complain to him of it. The truth is, I have so often heard Mr. Duncomb complain of Sr. Robert himself, that he should not for his own sake much regard his Complaints; But in this matter it happned, that the 200000, l. being Lent by Mr. Kent and Duncomb, and Mr. Kent then being Receiver of the Customs, from whom Sir. Iohn Iames, Major Huntingdon, &c. (who were then Pay­masters of the Army) were to receive 2000, l. a Week out of the Cus­toms: And the said Sr. Iohn Iames, Major Huntingdon, &c. being Re­ceivers of the Excise, so as the one Fifth was to be Paid by them, to the said Mr. Kent and Duncomb: An agreement was made, or Pretended to be made amongst themselves, (and without any Direction of mine,) for the Accommodation of the Kings service, by Mr. Kent and Mr. Dun­combs taking the 2000, l. a Week, (which was in their own Hands) for part of the Money due to them from Sr. Iohn Iames, &c. upon the one Fifth of the Excise: And although some differences did at last arise in this matter betwixt them; yet it was setled in the Kings presence at the Treasury Chamber before my leaving the Staff, and was so far from be­ing diverted by me, either from being Paid into the Exchequer, as the Act directed, or from being paid to any other uses than the Direction of the said Act did appoint; that I will put the truth or Falshood of what either he or I, have writ about the Revenue, upon the proof of that Parti­cular. And for the 83400, l. which he says was unpaid of the 200000, l. I confess I understand not how that could be, when Mr. Kent, and Mr. Duncomb might force the Receivers of the Excise to pay what was due to them, on the one Fifth when ever they Pleased; Besides, that I be­lieve at the time of my leaving the Staff, there was 52000, l. in Mr. Kents hands, by an arrear of the 2000 l. a Week on the Customs, then due to Sr. Iohn Iames, &c. By which Mr. Kent and Duncomb, might pay themselves so much of whatsoever Sum was remaining unpaid to them at that time, on the one Fifth of the Excise. And in truth the whole matter concerned me no more, than it did Sr. Robert himself; and I have some reason to think, that the Examiner was not so ill instructed, as to have left that Sum out of his Charge (especially having mentioned it in his sixth Folio,) if it could have been made any Argument against me, which (as I have already said) it cannot be; Unless I had either given Orders to the Receivers of the Excise not to pay the Fifth according to the Act, or had given them Orders for applying any part of it, to other Uses, than the Act directed; either of which, I do Challenge Sr. Robert, or any body else, to prove, and therefore it was, that I called it, Noto­riously false.

The next head wherein he is knowingly unwilling to do me Right, is, about the Poll Bill, which I find I have spoke so fully to, in my answer to [Page 5]the Examiner, that I see he thinks not fit to make any reply to what I have there said; But only designs to make it a piece of my ill manage­ment, that 186585. l. 18. s. 9. d. (for which he says the Commissioners of the Treasury have given Assignments) is added as a Charge upon the Revenue, to make up his Additional Charge at the end of his Book, to a­mount to the sum of 655634. l. 19. s. 6. d, whereas no body knows bet­ter than Sr. Robert, that the Poll Bill was estimated to 400000. l. at least; That Credit was given by the Act for 300000. l. in Money upon it, and an indefinite Credit for stores beyond the 300000. l.; So as no part of the Money or Credits lent upon that Act, was believed would ever have affected the Revenue at all; And if ready Money was promised to a­ny body upon that Act, which was not Performed, I am sure no man can say they had that Promise from me; And moreover though Sr. Robert puts this, 186585, l. 18. s. 9. d. as a Debt due only to the East-land Mer­chants, I remember that the sum demanded by them in my time was far less, (and as I think not full 40000. l.) so that I believe, that reckoning must be swelled by other Demands, and is no fault of mine if there be now such a Charge on the Revenue.

In Folio the 8th. I find Sr. Robert brings the same Paper, which was quoted by the Examiner for a State of the Revenue, as it was made up by my Lord Clifford 10th of June 1673. I confess I do not see any use he makes of it; But he hopes perhaps that others will, when he has told them, that the Original of that Paper was drawn by Sr. Philip LLoyd; But that can by no means a­gree with Sr. Philips own letter, which is Printed in my Answer; and Sr. Robert must give me also leave to doubt it; because I never saw nor heard of any such Paper from my Lord Clifford, who would Probably rather have designed such a paper for my Information, than any bodies else, unless the King himself. But the Examiner having said, That he has a Copy of it under Sr. Philips own hand, may put this matter out of Dispute, if Sr. Ro­bert have but interest enough to procure that Copy from the Exa­miner.

Those points I have already spoke to, (as having been very Dis-inge­nuously handled by Sr. Robert) I take to be all the matters of Fact menti­oned by him, till he comes to the main business of his Book (beginning Folio 11th. about the State of the Revenue at Lady-Day, 1679.) Except­ing a mistake of the Printer, of Forty Pounds, Folio the 2d, which he be­lieves, Folio 7th. hath been made in the Examiners Computation, to the Sum of above three Millions (although Sr. Robert calls it a Repetition of the former Sum, (which it is not) And excepting an acknowledgment he makes Folio 3d. that the Customs never yielded so much as in my time: And excepting the Head about secret Service, Folio 7th, where he Con­fesses that the Sum of 252467. l. 10. s. 5. d. is all that was Paid for secret Service in Mr. Berties name, in three compleat Years ending Lady-Day, 1679; But does add, 14640. l. in the said three Years, which he does un­hansomely (and contrary to his own knowledge) Insinuate, as if the year­ly Sums for New-years Gifts (which I am not provided to say whether they be that Sum he names for three Years or not) were privately di­rected to be distributed by Mr. Bertie; Which on the contrary he knows was the Kings constant yearly Allowances to several of his Servants, and Officers, long before my time, and without any alteration of them that [Page 6]I know in my time, so that I might justly have added this amongst the rest which have had such disingenuous applications made of them; but that I am not furnished to answer, nor do I know what he means, by that Sum which (with the 252467 l. to Mr. Bertie, and the 14640 l. for New-Years Gifts) he pretends to be for secret Service, and to make the Sum of 309556 l. in the said three Years; nor do I know to whom any such Mo­ney hath been paid for secret service in that time more than the said 252467 l. 10 s. 5 d. to Mr. Bertie, and of which (as I have said in my for­mer Answer) 57763 l. at least has been disburst for publick uses, and Sir Robert may perhaps be mistaken in this matter as well as he confesses (in the very next Paragraph) that the Examiner was, in his positive Averrment, Fol. 11. of that Book, that my Sallery was never included in se­cret Service.

Sir Robert begins Fol. 11. of his Book, with the Examiners Charge, and my Deductions; but confesses in Fol. 13. A mistake of the Examiner, in that Charge, to the Sum of 58352 l. 9 s. 6 d. which it seems is charged by the Examiner as part of the Total Charge, besides all the Advance-Moneys; of which the 58352 l. is part, and which I could not have known but by Sir Robert's help; so as by that computation, the Examiners Charge upon the three great Branches of the Revenue at Lady Day 1679. ought to have been but 1427218 l. 6 s. 10 d. and whether it may not be yte less by such double Charges, which I cannot know for want of the particulars of the General Charge, is very uncertain.

The particulars which I say ought to be deducted from that Charge, are the nine following, viz.

• 1. For the Advance on the Excise.—270000 l.
• 2. For the Advance on the Hearth-Duty.—150000.
• 3. To be Discharged by Orders to the Commissioners of Excise on the first Act of Disbanding.—101000.
• 4. More by Tallyes on the Surplus of the Excise for 30000 l. and 99000 l. being no Charge on the Rent, except the Surplus fail.—129000.
• 5. More by Tallyes which were to pay the Forces from Lady-Day 79 forwards to July following, which was 97 Days be­yond my Time.—59588.
• 6. More by Tallyes on the Customs made use of to carry on the Service of the Navy and Ordnance beyond that said Lady-Day 79. 35000.
• 7. More by Tallyes, struck for Pensions upon the two last Quar­ters of the Excise, viz. Christmass 78. and Lady-Day 79. for payment of which Money, was left in the hand of the Commissi­oners of Excise about.—33000.
• 8. More by Tallyes on the Customs restored for Tynn deposited in Mr. Kents hands.—15000.
• 9. More by Tallyes on the Customs Accounted by the Examiner to be unpaid to Mr. Mountague, which were paid in my Time. 2342.
• Totall Sum 794930 l.

I agree with Sr. Robert, Fol. 12. That the Examination of these Parti­culars must determine the true State of the Charge left then on the Kings Re­venue; and by this Declaration of his own, that it must do so; it appears that Sr. Robert did not think any great weight was to be laid upon his following particulars of 655634 l. 19 s. 6 d. by which he would swell the Debt to 2074879 l. 16 s. 0 d.

But I can by no means agree with him, nor admit his reasons, why none of the abovesaid deductions should be allowed, but 59588 l. to the Forces, and 2342 l. to Mr. Mountague, (nor does he agree with himself in some of them) and for the 4395 l. 3 s. 6 d. which he alloweth on the Tynn [...], it will appear in its proper place to be over and above the 15000 l. deducted for the Tynn in my Computation; and must therefore in its due place be added to my former Deductions.

As to the Advances which are his first Exception, it is to be observed, that Sir Robert, as well as the Examiner, makes use of a pretended Pa­per of the Lord Cliffords; but omits to draw from thence (as the Exami­ner doth) a State how the Revenue was left Charged by my Lord Clif­ford; and yet without doing that, it is impossible to compare whether the Debt be increased or decreased since that time: Insomuch that this omis­sion must be for some other end, and serves particularly that it may not be seen (as it must be by drawing such a State) and as it was in the Examiners Book, that the Advances in my Lord Cliffords time were Accounted no part of the Debt upon the Revenue, and I wish that all his Majesties Debts were in such a condition as would always discharge it self, and yet leave his Majesty the full use of his Revenue: and although Sr. Robert be of ano­ther opinion, I cannot help believing, that if all his Majesties Revenue was brought into the same way, which I brought the Excise ( viz. of being Let upon a certain great Rent, and that secured by a great Sum advanced, and the Overplus (after certain Salleries paid for management) to be to the Kings own use, with an incouragement to the Managers of in­creasing their Wages by a small allowance out of every pound which they can improve beyond the Sum secured, the whole Revenue would be encreased by the Industry of the Managers (who in that case work for themselves as well as for the King) much more than would pay the In­terest of the Sums advanced; as hath been made appear by the Overplus of the Excise in my Time; and which I fear it would not have done by any who had only taken pains for the King, without any prospect of gain to themselves more than their bare Salleries; But to conclude this Point, since it hath never heretofore been reckoned in the State of the Debt (not by the Examiner himself) and his Majesty having the Use of his whole Revenue notwithstanding the Advance Money, and that Sir Roberts best Reason, is only, that he is of Opinion it might be better done by management without Advance: I suppose these first and second Deducti­ons will be thought but reasonable, and I must here desire it may be ob­served, that Sir Robert, Fol. 12. sayes, I have reckoned the Advance on the the Excise 20000 l. more than really it was; and yet in the end of the ve­ry same Paragraph, he confesses that the Advance on the Excise indeed was as much as I call it, viz. 270000 l.

My third Deduction is 101000 l. to be discharged by Orders to the Commissioners of Excise, &c. as aforesaid.

To which Sir Robert gives no colour of contradiction, only he says, it was part of a double Security given to Sir John James, &c. by which he acknowledges there was so much Money in their hands for the discharging of Tallyes; and then, whether it was in the Examiners Charge or no is no great matter, nor is it less to be allowed for one of the Deductions; only here I do observe Sir Robert is so intimate with the Examiner, that he knows of what particulars the Examiners Charge is made up, which I should have been glad to have known either from the Examiner or Sir Robert, and then I could have answered more particularly every part of the Charge, in the same method as I do now set down every particular of the Deductions which ought to be allowed.

My fourth Deduction is 129000 l: by Tallyes on the Surplus of the Excise, which I say is no Charge upon the Rent, Fol. 10. of my Book; and yet Sir Robert, Fol. 15. of his sayes, that I say it is no Charge on the Revenue, which I do not say; and the difference I make herein is, be­cause I found the Revenue of the Excise Let at a certain Rent of 530000 l. Per Annum, at my entrance to the Treasury; which I first raised to 550000 l. Per Annum, and then to 560000 l. Per Ann. and it was never Let for more than that Sum under any certain Rent, and it was at the said Rent of 550000 l. and no more, which Sir Robert made his Calcu­lations concerning the State of the Revenue to the King in 1675. about which something will be said in its proper place; but I mention this now, to shew that this Branch of the Revenue was no more impaired by me, than himself confesses the Customs to have been in my time: And it is as well known that I raised the Hearth-Money from 145000 l. Per Ann. to 162000 l. Per An. so that how he will make out the Revenues being im­paired from June 73. to March 75. and from March 75 to Lady Day 79. (as he says Fol. 21.) I do not understand. Since therefore the high­est Rent of the Excise was but 560000 l. Per An. and that by my way of Letting that Branch, betwixt a Farm at the said certain Rent of 560000 l. and a management accountable to the King for the Overplus, there has arisen a Surplus of 129000 l. and more beyond the said Rent of 560000 l. I think it ought to be allowed as a Deduction, the Reve­nue not being abated by it; but on the contrary is accounted at 560000 l. Per An. which is 10000 l. Per An. more than Sir Robert Accounts that Branch of the Revenue in his computations to the King, and is 30000 l. Per An. more than that part of the Revenue was Let for at my entrance to the Treasury, which is the time taken for making the com­parison betwixt the Charge on the Revenue then, and at my leaving the Treasury in 1679. so as in truth I might justly (though I do not) Ac­count all the encreases of the Revenue on any Branch of it in my time to ballance the increase of the Debt in the said time, and then I am sure the total of the Debt would be much less than it was when I entred to the Treasury; but I have only Accounted this one Surplus, because it could not be depended upon as any certain Rent, nor was it charged to any certain uses, as all the certain Rent of the Excise was; but was appli­cable to such uses as his Majesty should direct.

My Fifth Deduction is 59588 l. to the Forces, &c. which Sir Robert is pleased to allow.

My Sixth Deduction is 35000 l. made use of to carry on the Service of the Navy, Ordnance, &c.

And my Seventh Deduction is 33000 l. for Tallyes struck for Pen­sions upon the two last Qarters of the Excise, &c.

These two last, viz. The sixth and seventh I have put together, because Sir Robert hath got Certificates in these two Particulars seem­ing to contradict the reasons given by me for the allowance of them as Deductions from the Charge; which I am glad to find is all he can pretend to contradict by any Authority; because both the Sums together if they were not allowed, do amount but to 68000 l. and (as I have remarked before) he acknowledges, Fol. 13. that the Examiner hath mistaken 58352 l. 9 s. 6 d. by a double Charge of so much of the Advance Money; so as the difference of my first com­putation would be lessened but 10000 l. if these two Sums were not to be deducted; but to shew that the matter of Fact is as I have said in both these Particulars, I must shew that those Certificates (if true) from the Ordnance, and Commissioners of Excise, are no­thing to the matter he pretends to make out by them: For as to the Ordnance I must needs say that it was not only the Office from which I could get very little of any Accounts in my whole time; but (notwithstanding any Directions or Orders to the contrary) they would take no notice of that stop which was put to the Exchequer before my Time; but did apply those Moneys to payments under that stop, which were ordered to the payments of Service forwards; so as it was impossible for me without intirely discharging the old Debt of that Office to have brought up their payments to the time of my leaving the Staff; and this makes the latter part of my time seem not to be provided for in that Office; but I do say that Tallyes struck in my time to the Sum of 35000 l. (and which is reckoned as part of Sir Roberts Charge of 1419244 l. 16 s. 6 d.) were paid after my time, and the Money applyed by the present Commis­sioners of the Treasury in the stead of other Money which they must have paid: and Sir Robert himself knows that these Lords Commis­sioners when they appointed a weekly Sum out of the Customs, of 2000 l. a Week, to discharge the Debt by Tallyes in Course, made use of the Tallyes struck for the Navy, Ordnance and Forces in their Course too, and by that means had so much also of the 2000 l. a Week, which they applyed to the payment of the several Offices; as I doubt not but both the Commissioners of the Treasury, and Paymaster of the Forces will own: and to say this was no carrying the Offices of the Navy and Ordnance forward beyond the time of my leaving the Staff (because it did not pay the whole Debt of those two Offices) is no Argument; for untill the whole Debt can be paid, all pay­ments are directed in course: and as I paid Debts before my time, (especially to the Navy) so these Gentlemen must pay before their Time, and so must the Payments of any who shall succeed them, be applyed to the Payment of Ships and Yards, &c. due before their time, unless it may be supposed that Ships abroad, &c. (at the al­teration of the Treasury into other hands) shall never be paid.

But had Sir Robert sent to the Office of the Ordnance for a Cer­tificate to know, how much money I had paid them in all in my time, and what the accrued Debt was in the said time, I doubt not but it would [Page 10]have appeared, that I had supplyed more Money to that Office, than would satisfie the whole Debt accrued in the said time.

As to the 33000 l. or there abouts (for I have not positively named that Sum) the matter of Fact is,

That a stated Sum for Pensions was directed Yearly; so that if Tal­lyes were not struck, yet the Money remained in the hands of the Com­missioners and Receivers of the Excise, until such Tallyes were struck: And that this Money did remain in their hands at my leaving the Staff (in part of a greater Sum) Sr Robert who was one appointed to state their Accounts, cannot but know; As also that those Commissioners, and Receivers (being to be laid aside) did apply all the Cash in their hands, to Tallyes in Course, and paid over this 33000 l. or there abouts, and the other Moneys in their Hands to discharge Tallyes in Course; And such Tallyes as are reckoned part of the Charge, left by me on that Branch of the Revenue.

But the said Commissioners and Receivers of the Excise, might per­haps give the present Lords Commissioners of the Treasury an Account of little or no Cash in their Hands, for the Reasons aforesaid; and yet this is no manner of Argument to prove what Sr. Robert would infer by his printed Paper: Unless, as he had lessened thereby my Deductions, he had also lessened the Charge, as he ought to have done; Knowing that with the Money in their Hands, at my leaving the Staff, they really paid as much in Tallyes, which are a part of the Charge said to be left by me. And this if Sr. Robert would have Writ to them to Certifie, they must have owned to be True; And consequently (from what I have said con­cerning these two Deductions) I hope others will think them Reasonable, although Sr. Robert do not.

My eighth Deduction, is 15000 l. by Tallyes on the Customes, &c. This I must needs say was not so plainly expressed, as it ought to have been in my former Book: For these Tallyes were given to Mr. Kingdon (then Pay-master of the Army) and not being made use of by him before my leaving the Treasury, they were since delivered up by him, to the pre­sent Lords Commissioners of the Treasury; so that they relate not to that [...], which Sr. Robert hath taken the trouble to set down, Folio 18th. But I am sure Sr. Robert knows it to be true, that such Tallyes to the Sum of 15000 l. were delivered up by Mr. Kingdon to the Lords Commissioners, and he ought therefore in justice to have added them to that Sum of 4395 l. 3 s. 6 d. on Mr. Kents account, for the Knowledge of which I am behold­ing wholly to Sr. Robert, because otherwise I should have been ignorant of that Deduction.

My ninth and last Deduction, is, 2342 l. by Mr. Montagues Tallyes, which Sr. Robert is also pleased to Admit.

Having gone through the Deductions, and having given the reasons on which they are grounded, I hope they are so clear as will give every body satisfaction, and I shall now follow Sr. Roberts Method in his Folio 19. By taking

First, the Examiners charge which was 1485570 l. 00 s. 00 d.

Then Substract my former Deductions, which were 794930 l. 00 s. 00 d.

Then Substract likewise the Deductions now to be added by Sr. Robert Howards assistance amounting to 58352 l. 9 s. 6 d. which is double Charged on that advance of Excise; And al­so 4395 l. 3 s. 6 d. Deducted on Mr. Kents Account of Tynn. Viz. 062747 l. 13 s. 00 d.

Which together amounts to the Sum of 857677 l. 13 s. 00 d.

And the remaining Charge will be 627892 l. 07 s. 00 d.

I suppose Sr. Robert admits the Charge left on the three great Branches of the Revenue, by the Lord Clifford, to be as I have said in my Book, viz, 469371 l. Because he says nothing against it, and in that Compu­tation are neither reckoned Advance-Monies, nor Monies unpaid to Ships, &c. which amounted then to above Treble the Sum Sr. Robert now reckons to Sr. Iohn Narborow's Fleet.

And then the Charge left by me on the said three Branches being but 627892 l. 07 s. 00 d.

And the Charge by my Lord Clifford, being 469371 l. 00 s. 00 d.

The Anticipations are increased in my time, viz. In Five years and three Quarters (although no Sup­plies were given by Parliament, but what were appro­priated and were so applied) only by the Sum of 158521 l. 07 s. 00 d.

And as I have said in my Answer to the Examiner, Folio 11th. I paid in that time, 318473 l. to the Gold-smiths, for their Perpetual In­terest, which is almost double the Sum, increased upon the Anticipati­ons; Besides the Rebellion of Virginia, &c. which I have mentioned in that Answer, and therefore will not repeat them here.

Before he closes his Account, Sr. Robert thinks fit to add to the Exami­ners Charge, A further Charge of 655634 l. 19 s. 6 d. By three particu­lars, viz.

Unpaid on the one Fifth of the Excise, 83000 l. 00 s. 00 d.

The Debt of the Eastland Merchants. 186585 l. 19 s. 09 d.

The Debt to the Navy upon the return of Sr. John Narborow's Fleet, 385648 l. 19 s. 09 d.

Of which he says the present Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, have paid and satisfied. 478646 l. 18 s. 06 d.

I suppose the Examiner knew nothing of this matter, or certainly it would not have been Omitted by him; and I must here observe, that what Sr. Robert calls in me, a Charging the Revenue by Tallyes, he calls now in Others, A satisfying of Creditors, although it be the very same thing, and by Tallyes at a very great distance of Payment; Which [Page 12]if I had done, I perceive Sr. Robert would have made no use of for me, but to have added it to my Load of Anticipations.

For the 83000 l, as I have already said (and am very confident of the Truth of it) there was remaining in Mr. Kents hands at Lady-Day, 79. 52000 l. for 26. Weeks, of 2000 l. per Week on the Customs due to Sr. Iohn James and Partners; And for the remaining 31000 l. or for the whole 83000 l. I know no man that either did, or could have Protect­ed them from the Payment of it, according to the Act; If Mr Kent and Mr. Duncomb had prosecuted the Receivers of the Excise about it; Nor did I ever use any Authority or other means in that matter, betwixt them, than by perswading them (as I did all men, who were concerned in the Kings Service) to accommodate one anothers Occasions in their several Imployments, as far as their own safeties and conveniencies would permit: nor should I have either Charged the King or any but the Receivers of the Excise themselves, to have made satisfaction to any Body for any Sum which was due to them by virtue of the Act of Parlia­ment out of the one Fifth of the Excise.

For the 186585 l. 19 s. 9 d. ( which Sr. Robert calls the Debt to the Eastland Merchants (and which I do not remember to be so much in my time as 40000 l.) it became a Debt by the Money of the Poll-Act falling so infinitely short of what it was calculated to be by the Parliament; and for which there will be found very little of my directions, insomuch that as I did not charge the Revenue with it in my time, so I take my self to be no cause of the accruing of that Debt.

For the 385648 l. 19 s. 9 d. due to the Fleet upon the Return of Sir John Narborow: I wonder Sr. Robert will name it, when he is com­paring the State of the Debt left in 1679. with the Debt left in 1673. when he knows how vast a disproportion there is betwixt that Debt to the Navy, and this in 1679. the Sum then due to the Fleet being much above a Million: So that I look upon this last Addition to be (as I have said before) only to make a noise, besides that Sir John Narborows Fleet came in since I was out of Imployment, and I thank God I am able to prove that there never was three Ships in all my time, that were not paid off with ready Money, and as soon as the Ship Books were perfected by which they were to be paid.

Lastly, if Sir Robert will give me leave to reckon as the Examiner hath done, Fol. 14. I may reckon the Advance of the Excise, viz. 211647 l. 10 s. 6 d. (for Sir Robert does acknowledge, Fol. 12. that I had only disposed of 58352 l. 9 s. 6 d. of the 270000 l. advanced on that Branch) to be so much in ready Money, towards payment of the said Fleet.

So that upon the whole, I can no more conceive these three last particu­lars ought to be added to the Charge of the Revenue in my time, than the Examiner did, when he had Must'red up all he could think possible to be laid to that Account; and for the particular of the Ships, it is impossible but there must always be a Debt to be paid by whomsoever shall succeed in the Treasury, only it will be less or bigger, as the Ships kept abroad are more or fewer in number, insomuch that Sir Robert needs not give himself the trouble of proving this particular with that care which he seems to take about it.

Most of Fol. 21. is taken up about Sr. Roberts Paper which was gi­ven [Page 13]to the King the 5th of March 1675. by which he sayes he intended other uses than have been mentioned in my answer to the Examiner.

I shall say more to that Paper and some others of Sr. Roberts Schemes, as also to some managements of his own in his Office, and his mistaken Certificates, (which I have in my Custody) when my leisure will give me leave to ask him the meaning of them: In the mean time his Paper of the 5th. of March being Printed in my Answer, every man is at li­berty to make his own construction of it; and not being present my self at the delivery of it, I can only say what was told me when I received that Paper, from those whom I do perfectly believe. One intent of the Paper Sr. Robert sayes was to prevent those frauds which had been commit­ted in the Exchequer; but since he hath not thought fit to instance any one particular of those frauds, I am apt to believe, he either knows none, or none that he is willing to speak of; for he knows, that if any fraud came to my knowledge (as some did) I made it always to be examined in publick; and I take it for one of the highest Vindications of my Inte­grity in the Treasury, that Sr. Robert cannot charge me with any other applications of Money to my own use (out of those great Sums which have passed through my hands) more than the Sum of 2747 l. 5 s. 11 d. bestowed upon me at the making up of my Account as Treasurer of the Navy: whereas there are good store of instances of Lord Treasurers heretofore, who from less Foundations of Estates than my self, have left visible Mo­numents of more Money laid out in some one single Building of theirs, (besides the Estates added in proportion to them) than I have got in near six years enjoyment of the same Office: So that since the blame can only be laid upon my management (who could be no wiser than God had made me) and not upon any corrupt actings in my imployment; I do not only willingly undergo Sir Roberts Rebukes, but do acknowledg my own failings, and hope that by Sr. Roberts good Advice his Majesty will for the future be served as he ought to be.

In the last Page of his Book Sir Robert says, it is only to give a short Account, to shew his Judgment concerning Tallyes of Anticipation, and how extremely satisfied he is (which I verily believe) to see his Opinion appro­ved by the present Lords Commissioners.

He has mentioned something of the Anticipations also, Fol. 5. which I passed over in that place, because they would more properly be spoke to both together, as also the matter of Interest depending upon such Anticipa­tions, which is likewise in the said Fol. 5.

And in the first place I do agree with Sir Robert as much as any body else can do, that it is better to avoid Tallyes of Anticipation (where it can be done) than to make use of them; but that the Revenue must be ruined by them, Ideny; or that the Interest is left to any such uncertainty as he would have believed; but that it must be by the knavery of the Lord Treasurer, Chancellor of the Exchequer, or the sworn Auditor of the Exchequer (before whom the Account is brought) if the King be wron­ged in what Interest he pays upon such Tallyes.

I doubt not neither, but the present Lords Commissioners of the Trea­sury have endeavoured to avoid such Tallyes, and so did I, till I found it impossible for me to help it, and (if I am not misinformed) although the present Lords Commissioners have spared 2000 l. a Week by their other [Page 14]retrenchments, to discharge Tallyes (which I was not able to spare, and supply the Kings other Occasions) yet those Tallyes which were in course, being paid, I hear and have good ground to believe true, that now the Lords Commissioners are necessitated to comply with some Lenders of Money so far, as to give them Tallyes of Anticipation to a conside­rable Sum: nor do I know how it can be helpt, unless Sir Robert can be able to do more by his Legislative Capacity for remedy of the matter, than he will ever be able to do by his private; and if this be now the Case, as well as it was in my time, then by Sir Roberts Rule the Exche­quer will still be no wiser than it hath been in knowing when Interest is to com­mence upon such Tallyes.

'Tis true that the Exchequer does not presently know the Commence­ment of Interest upon Anticipations; but I doubt not but the Lords Commissioners do take care, that the Vouchers (though called private ones) shall be as authentick as publick ones; and it is the Duty of a sworn Auditor to see they be so, from whence they are entred in the Exche­quer, and from that time the Exchequer does know the times of lending upon Tallyes of Anticipation, and consequently the charge of Interest upon them; so that the Bug-Bear is made far more terrible than it is, although (as I have said) it were better to be avoided, if the Kings ne­cessities will permit.

I have now gone through Sir Roberts Book, and hope I have made ap­pear that the State of the Revenue at Lady-Day, 1679. was not as it hath been represented either by the Examiner or Sir Robert Howard; and since Sir Roberts friend (to whom he writes) had no curiosity to enquire into those other parts of the Examiners Book which concerned the affairs of State therein mentioned, I shall repeat nothing upon that Subject, but conclude that his friend is satisfied in those matters, which are of much the greatest Concern to me; but I hope it will be ta­ken notice of, that both the Examiner and Sir Robert (how much soever they may be strangers to one another) have carried on the same design against me, as if it had been with the same hand; saving that Sir Robert has shewed himself to be the better Accomptant, by rectifying divers Er­rors in the Examiners Computations, and that he has been much more ci­vil than the Examiner in his Language.

I shall conclude this Answer to Sir Robert Howard with this single Re­quest to all my Country-men; That they would not believe any thing a­gainst me by Reports, till they see it proved; And then as I shall desire no other favour; so I doubt not but to be restored to the good Opinion of all such, as have not particular prejudice against me.