IS not the hiring of mony, (seeing it cannot be bor­rowed for Gods sake,) as necessary for the well-being of mankind, as hiring of Land or houses?

Divines will first tell you, your very Hypothesis is stark naught, De jure, I mean, though de facto it be too true; and then withal they will direct you to wholsomer expedients for traffick, on all sides, than hiring of mony, viz. Trading with our own stocks, honest Partnership, and discreet Factorage: besides, as to the difference of Land and money, they will, (a­mongst other things) inform you, That your Letting of mony at the same price to all Borrowers, looks somewhat like the expecting an equal Rent for all Lands by the Acre, without exa­mining their Quality, scituation, &c. To vary is impracticable, and not limit the Rate, hath been found by experience, in un­charitable times, the highway to Jewish extortion.

Do you not lay an unreasonable stresse upon the Interest payd by his Majesty for monies Borrowed in the late War?

My meaning was the same with yours, (though not asserted with the like confidence and Authority,) viz. That his Majestie gave excessive Rates, now this, say I, happened through his not commanding mony, as the States did, the reason whereof I clearely referre to the plenty and security attending low Interest.

Doth not the frugal Hollander grow rich with the gaines of seven or eight per Cent. whilst fifteen per Cent. will not support our Expensive Traders?

Five or six, I doubt, is generally fair for them, ours, I suppose, may thank you for it; They would fain perswade the Usurer either to trie himself, or be their Ensurer; But, it seems, he desires none of their Egges for his mony, for he lovingly thanks them, and had rather they should be his.

I desire the Reader to take notice, That all Europe exceeds us in the Rates of Vsury, the States of Holland, and some Com­monwealths [Page 9] of Italy only excepted? And some or all of these are unrestrained by their lawes, and at liberty to take as much for Interest as they can get.

We differ partly in fact, but more in the Issue by you put; For lawes may not only be proper but necessary in a Kingdom grievously incumbred by civil War, and that hath so much good Land for its fund; When, in Commonwealths of unequal and slender territory, free from exigents, possessed of trade, and chiefly founded in it; current Security, with good Policies, may both supply the want of them, and perhaps better effect their design: As for Rates, I think it were happy, if ours were the lowest.

I say, (speaking as a man,) 'tis no wrong to the Com­monwealth, If men of Estates drink, drab, live profusely, and die Beggars, so long as every penny comes to the Natives, &c.

I say (speaking as an Englishman,) Interest Reipublicae, nequis male utatur suis: This is indeed, a rare doctrine for Usur­ers, but baneful to the Commonwealth; such a vermine, as you describe, it no more wants, then it doth the Usurer himself, or than the Farmer, in a cheap time, doth Rats and mice, or lazy and disorderly hinds to devour his fruits; For so necessity, (the mother of Incumbrance, and Gran-dame of Extortion [...] would both fatally embase our Lands, and poyson our trade with Bankrouts; besides he is a scabby sheep and infects the Flock; I now leave the Reader to judge, who speaks most in favour of Luxury, you or I; Cato or Seneca, I presume, taught you no such lewd and vulgar Politicks.

Well then! A Taxe we must have, be it only to dispose Authority to subdue Interest, &c.

Me thinks, Sir, we are already half agreed; The Kings debts, I presume, you would have payd, and his real occasi­ons supplied, Land-taxes, it seems, you abborre as much as I, and I trust, you wish so well to trade, as you would not have that bear all our Burthens; What then remains, but that our future levies be upon mony at Interest? If you please then, and publick occasions require it, (as 'tis like they may) mony­taxes let them be: Let two or three per Cent. be charged upon all Interest mony for seven years, and let Usurers always after­wards [Page 10] be double Taxed like Aliens, as, in effect, they are, and say you are gently dealt with: But four per Cent. with an effectual provision for the future taxing of mony its due share, seems to be the cleanlier way.

Is not this gratifying the Borrower with a vengeance for one years payment to eternity, out of an honest Creditours Purse?

How honest I know not, I am sure, of late we have tasted little of his Justice; Let me again acquaint him, that ad­mitting even his fairest pretence, and hardest measure, I suppose, it were scarce a Rowland for his Oliver, but our soundest Di­vines, I doubt, will tell you, you mistake your vice for your Estate.

Who layd this Excise, as you terme it, upon your Land, the Borrower, or the Vsurer? He swears, he sought not for the Gentleman or trader, he had something else to do with his mony, &c.

I could answer you perhaps without just exception, it was the Rebel and the Usurer betwixt them; But, pray Sir, is not this as good a plea for the highest extortions as for common Interest? My surly host, when I question his Reckoning, may as well reply, who sent for you? The Prostitute, having picked her lovers purse, may as well aske him, who sollicited you? I durst likewise swear, (but that I doubt a Borrowers Oath may not be taken without a voucher, since his Band I find will not passe without two or three sureties,) The Usurer would never lend for pure good nature or Importunity, or if he thought he could otherwise deale to better effects; And therefore I have a little curiosity to know, what that something else was, For, if it were a purchase, (though a Lurching one,) beshrew those, say I, whoever they were, that diverted him.

What would you have him do? Let his neighbour sinke? Go to prison? &c.

Such a deliverance or Jubile as this had Esops horse, pro­tected from the stagge, but ridden to death by the man; I'll tell you, what I would have him do, not give his friend Poyson for Physick, Or, at best, cold water in a Calenture; What then? Why lend him mony grais, or at a tolerable and saving Rate, to be sure, what ever it be: But he who now premises that Usury is charity, may shortly, I doubt conclued, that gaine is Godlinesse.

He kept his mony by him these six moneths to lend, &c.

'Twas his own folly, he should once for all, (accord­ing to your discreet advertisement Page 44,) have fairely layd it out upon Land, and for ever prevented the like losse; But, it seems he knows better what to do, then you or I can direct him.

He lends it to a man, that gaines fifteen per Cent. ( for so much I believe all traders do,) Is it not reasonable the lender should have at least one half thereof? &c.

Nay, if once you come to reason, you are gone, stick to your opus and usus, if you be wise; For what if he lend it to a man who looses fifteen per Cent. (so much, I doubt, some traders do,) Is it not then reasonable the lender should bear one half of the losse, since he looked for one half of the Gaine? I marvel, Sir, I should need, now to tell you, that trading at Interest is a deceitful Lottery, consisting of blanks without num­ber for a few great lots, an errand Quack, that proclaims his cures, but conceales his murthers; A few Field-Officers it hath, who by chance surviving, and carrying away the fruit and glory of the whole service, are celebrated for their Exploits; And well they may, for they are almost as strange as Knight-Er­randry; But common Souldiers are slaine by thousands and forgotten; My comfort is, that I hope by this time, our Mer­chants, and Usurers too so well perceive it, that the one is not for­ward to trust, nor the other eager to be trusted; And that the blessing of forraigne Loanes hath quite forsaken us; Otherwise, it would aske no conjuring to read the destiny of our Trade.

No man will keep mony by him to lend for so small a Praemium as four per Cent. which will hardly reward selling in and out, and make good the Brass mony, much less answer the hazard of lending, which is so considerable, in this deceitful age, that I perswade my self, the Ensurance Office would demand above 30 s. per 100 to secure all the mony lent on security in England.

T'other Angel, and 'tis done: There is now no more, for ought I see, betwixt your hazard and our Ensurance, troth, be good natur'd, and do not stand for a trifle: But surely, Sir, you speak at a great Rate; Tell Mr. Usurer from me, his poor Bayliffe the Gentleman, (as you rightly terme him,) is content [Page 12] with half the salary, sometimes with a bit and a knock from his Benefactour, and that his worship puts me in mind of some great goodfellows, who were so long accustomed to swill in Spirits, Brandy, Sack, Metheglin, Northdown, and Mum, as houshold Beer would not down with them, it was but Rock-water, even Cyder they took but for Clarified whey: But our hope is malt will shortly rise, and then we must brew smaller for him then of late we have done; Yet even at four per Cent. I doubt, he will fare but too well; Better, I am sure for the present, then many who better deserve: As for his hazards, he ensures himself with a witnesse; Nor do I suppose, he desires to loose so sweet a pretence. However, if at any time he be bitten, he is but pay'd in his own coyne, for not purchasing fairely, in stead of lending shrewdly, and lying in ambush, as he doth, for lurching Pen­nyworths.

I am yet to learn, what puts our Gentry upon considerable Borrowing, except such things as I am not willing to record, since not one in seven borrowes to advance any Laudable improvement.

Our late Usurpers could better resolve you then I, un­less you will take my Preface in part of payment, but in truth, the question comes strangely from you in this place; who tell us but a Page or two before, of Marrying Daughters, and going to Prison; good Sir, look about, or you will lose your self in the wood.

There is another sort of men, (Gentlemen not in debt,) concern'd in this Conditional Taxe, who are not to expect present advantage by subduing Interest, but are to solace themselves with an assurance of future improvement of their inheritances in value, as certain as if it were in their Purses, saith my Discourser, &c.

I say so indeed, and I doubt not but most of those Gentleman will believe me, for the thing is manifest both as to the Purchase and Rents of Land; For Purchase, the Resemblance of Land and mony to two Buckets was never questioned till now; And Rents must needs be governed by the very same Ma­ximes with the Land it self and Trade, the farmer being no other then a Country Marchant, and, with your Patience, I shall offer you divers familiar instances to prove, the Tenant hath e­qual benefit in the fall of Usury with his Land-lord, his stock [Page 13] will be so much cheaper to him, his ordinary yet necessary A­mendments, Fences, Repairs, &c. will be cheaper, he may the better afford to sell at common and low markets, or wait for higher, and, upon the Encouragement of a long and good lease, he (but much more the owner) will be enabled to venture on Im­provements chargeable and expectant, the profit whereof will vastly accrue not to himself only, but the Commonwealth, viz. Building, Planting, Enclosing, Drayning, Flouding, Marling, &c. These are so obvious, as I cannot but admire the vulgar capa­cities of some, who in discourse on this subject are apt to say, Alas! What is it to me, that neither lend nor borrow? But say I, do you neither hire nor let? Neither sell nor buy? Neither build nor repayre? Neither plant nor enclose? Neither wear nor cloath Neither travel nor sojourn? Neither entertain nor eat? Which way soever you turn, six per Cent. stares in your face; You meet him on the Road and sup with him at your Inne; His intruding you cannot avoyd, yet shun, if you can, his acquaintance; And in case you design to build a Church or Chappel, or found an Hospital, or plant a Colony, or enlarge a Navigation, or bravely serve your Prince, or worthily oblige your friend, or seasonably assist your neighbour, or encourage Manufacture, or advance learning, or maintain hospitality, or uphold your degree, or improve your Estate, or adorn your mansion, or enclose your Park, or compleat your library, or liberally breed your Son, or well match your Daughter, or any way exem­plifie your Christian Profession, publick Spirit, or private con­duct, to the Purchasing of Brass or Marble, nay to the bare rescuing your name even from present oblivion, consult him not, for you will find him sacrilegious, selfish, difficult and costly; But let me freely recommend to your four per Cent. for besides his fidelity and dispatch, he may chance in the upshot, (all things computed,) save you more then half in half.

But how will this Rayse a Farme now 100 l. per annum to 130 l. in the future? &c.

Me thinks the Usurer, disclayming good works, might have a little more faith, and not argue so sceptically and perversely since nothing seems clearer, then that what you take from Interest, you give to Land and stock; Those two Rents being [Page 14] all along the same Buckets; But if he will yet suspect his reason, let him hearken to great Authority, viz. the Stat. 21. Iacobi, which declares its main drift to be the upholding of Rents, and incouragement of tillage, then decaying; The Act of this pre­sent Parliament, which recites, that by notable experience, improvements had ensued; And the Edict of that wife King; Henry the fourth of France, Anno 1601. Recording the very same design.

But our happinesse is, we have a third sort of Land-lords, (whom you did not please to think on,) and, I hope one third part of the Land-lords in England, at least in weight, who are so farre from being in debt, that, by happy conduct, they are Masters of considerable summes, and that upon Vsury; Now to deal alike with the Land-lord Lender and Land-lord-Borrower is monstrous unequal.

Excellent news, I profess! That we have so many weighty Land-lords; Seriously I have not had the honour to know many of these worthi [...]s, or weighty Gentlemen; But I the less marvel, having generally converst with Royallists; Yet if such Gentlemen there be, (which upon your credit I shall ad­mit, let them know, I desire their Acquaintance, not to trouble them with the impertinency of getting in the Shire what they loose in the Hundred; but purely to tell them this story from my deceased fathers mouth; When he went to Oxford in 1642. he owed a considerable summe at 8 percent to a certain Creditour of Principles different from him, (whom he ever mentioned with Respect,) at their meeting in 1647. My Father told him, he hoped for some abatement of Interest, and forbearance of the principal, in regard of the fine he was then to pay; His answer was, Sir, take your own time for payment, as for Interest, God forbid, I should require any when you had no Rents, nor could my father prevail with him to take any part of it: A rare pat­tern for Conscientious lenders, and a lively decision of our pre­sent argument: Now by the happy conduct of these weighty Land-lords, I understand their dextrous shifting of publick Duties, and otherwise making hay while the Sun shined; If they can, at length, be (in some small measure) fairely met with, let King Adonibezek acquaint them with the Justice of it.

I humbly conceive, it were much better to keep up Vsury, and find out a way like that of a Register, (so long and Passionately desired,) which at once might enable the solvent Gentleman to borrow easily, (which now he cannot do,) on all occasions reasonably secure the mony lent, affright men from running greatly into debt, least their nakednesse appear, prevent ten thousand frauds, and as many law sutes, defer none but insolvent and ill-minded men, and direct the State, upon all emergencies to lay impositions on it equal to Land-taxes.

I humbly perceive, Usury is your noli me tangere; Well, however, I am glad to find you grant equall taxing just, it savours of some ingenuity still, though, I doubt, you may think it will not be in your time, and that you are safe enough at your close guard: As for a Register, it hath indeed been long desired, and long, I fear, yet may be, at least, ere it operate, considering the difficulties of agreeing, settling, and purging it: This six per Cent. well knows, and therefore, as his last stake, drives the ar­gument to that issue, just in the Welshmans Rhetorick, Let her but alone, till that daycomes; We, on the other side, desire a Register, (as surely it is chiefly our Interest,) farre more sincerely then he, and wish no time were lost, that at least the next age may reap the fruit of it; But we hope our Redresse needs no such long Prorogation, for he that must dine late, wants a good breakfast, and we suppose some fall of Usury, in our involved condition, to be the necessary Harbinger or Pioneer to an effectual Register, judging it more likely and proper to begin with the Egge, then the Hen.

By the way, I cannot but with trouble reflect, that Land and Trade should so conspire to play the Usurers game against them­selves, as by their discord all along they have done; The trader crying, taxe Land, in Gods name, for that will bear it, trade cannot; And the Land-lord of late, spare Land, for Gods sake, it hath already been taxed to death; Taxe now our superfluous trade, and therein our luxury; Giving, it seems, the Usurer over to his Reprobate sense, and therefore freely permitting him to thrive in this World; But little, in the mean time, considering, that tillage and trastick lay in one belly the Earth, sayle in one bottom upon the Sea, and fear one Pyrate or vermine, the U­surer, [Page 16] like a slie make-bate circumventing, and secretly no doubt deriding them, withal applauding his own happy conduct, (as my Authour hath it:) For as when theeves disagree, true men recover their goods, so whilst honest men quarrel, Pockets are the more securely picked.

T. M. Do you really believé, that abatement of Vsury will rayse the Purchase and Revenue of Land, and performe such wonderful feats?

I have heard of divers great Politicians, and some, in my dealings, I have met with, who being a little thick of hear­ing, kept notwithstanding one ear constantly open to good tyd­ings, and another shut to bad: Near of kinne to these is our U­surer; No man so nimble in apprehending, so subtle in calculat­ing profit as he; But if any thing be offered crosse to his Purpose, he counterfeits himself a changeling; Poor man! I dare say, he cannot tell ten: At this close lock we have him all along: If he find purchasing commonly gainful, in three moneths time he is our Land-lord, however, if he meet with a lurching Penny worth, he snaps it; He then lookes bigge and is a man of busi­ness, he would have you know; But if times be doubtful, taxes high, and Rents falling, he is then a poore Orphane, a silly Cock-nay, not versed in Country affaires; If trade be in a thriv­ing way, and yield above his rate of Usury, (which he Critically observes and understands as well as most that drive it, for there is not a better Weathercock, to tell us where the wind sits,) being naturally shrewd, and pensive: a rare Accomptant, and by conversation, at least, no stranger to those affaires, he plies the Exchange, examines the Rates of Impost, soon acquaints him­self with Prices and Markets, and is as brisk as the best: But finding little to be got, but hazard, and that, all things consi­dered, he may repose himself more profitably upon his Downbed of Interest, he is then wholy defective in business of that kind, his Friends undid him by not giving him more learning, or put­ting him early out to Prentice; Or he is a crazy old man, weary of the World, glad to retire, and beginning to doat: Were it not for this imposture of affected impotency, how could men the acurest and exactest judges of advantage in their generation, at this time of the day, so peremptorily deny the raysing of Land [Page 17] by the fall of Usury; a Problem full of self Conviction, com­pelling assent to the very mention of it, and which themselves, I dare say, have formerly granted a hundred times over: But truly here is the Intrigue, before the Usurer had dived into the bottome of the Argument, and spied the vast invincible conse­quences of it, not only in the Various improvements of Land, but in their immediate affinity to those of trade, (and one would marvel so sharp a nostril should not sooner smell so strong a scent,) his common Reflexions, were these, yes indeed, this is good for you in the Country, but it will undo us Citizens; You Gentlemen care not what becomes of trade, so your Lands rise; Now you would fain be raysing your Rents again, and racking your Tenants to maintain your Prodigality: These and divers other unwary Confessions have I my self, and I dare say most that read this Page heard from some even of those who now sing another note; For finding themselves, by their own admission, utterly gravelled, and unable to gainsay the necessary great and good effects of raysing Land, they soon swallowed their own spittle, and now the Crie is, 'tis absurd thus to argue against Ex­perience; We utterly deny it, prove it if you can; Well then, I am ready to prove it, (which yet I supposed I should never have been driven to,) and not only prove, but in good measure demonstrate it, if at least Arguments of this nature be capable of such evidence.

Purchasing is the Exchanging of mony for Land to a supposed equal Value, the proper measure whereof is Yearly income or Revenue; He then that purchases according to Rule, compares the income of his mony which he quits, with the Revenue of his Land which he acquires, and thereby Examines his gain or loss: Now, in regard of the dignity and stability of Land, it hath alwayes had, caeteris paribus, some preheminence allowed it in the Ballance, to a fourth or third part, perhaps more in very clear times, so as six Pounds per Annum good Rents were counted of equal intrinsecal value to eight or nine Pounds per Annum Interest; He then that would lay out a hundred Pounds upon a Purchase, (mony being at six per Cent.) expected Land to the Yearly value of four Pound, or at most four Pounds and ten shillings, which is about four and twenty years Purchase, [Page 18] whereas, (mony being at four per Cent.) less then three Pounds per Annum becomes his Due, which is about six and thirty years Purchase: This estimate, I dare maintain, must generally hold, if there be certainty in the rules of proportion; And that it doth so, appears even in our present case, which I take for a Preg­nant and marvellous instance, considering the number and ex­tremity of sellers; For supposing Land now to carry eighteen years purchase, (as good Rents have all along done,) and abat­ing a fourth part for the Rent charges of publick Duties, by Purchasers cruelly defalked; the present purchase is just recon­ciled to my presumed Rate: As for Rents, I must again mind you, of five years actual War, five years Anarchie, ten years Usur­pation, and above twenty years unequal burthens, sufficient, one would think, much more to have impoverished our Farmers, and embased our Farms.

But as for the Feats and projects which you so deride, I again affirm, they are not Monstrous, but most natural, even so familiar? That every Country, almost every year presents us with notable Patterns of them; Your self have instanced in some which may only serve for a Relish of many incomparably more important: Do but cast your eye upon our Lands now adjacent to good Towns, and observe what the industrie of man, meanly and but accidentally encouraged hath there effected; And then, (if you can) deny, that a perfect Enablement, and withal pru­dent compulsion of the same Industrie, doubled and redoubled, would, through the necessary progresse of improvement, make indeed a strange and happy Metamorphosis; Even by planting Cities, in time, where are now scarce hamlets, and multiply­ing Towns almost to the number of our Parishes; Since God, who sends meat for our mouths doth likewise ever send mouths for our meat, and that not by Miracle in our vulgar Account, but the ordinary successe of just laws, and prudent Endeavours; For sure there is nothing that so fatally and universally wasts and depopulates as Usury, if once it grow rank and rampant; No not War or Pestilence it self, which have always had their pe­riods, intermissions and Exemptions; Whereas this, like a ge­neral and perpetual contagion and secret canker, supplants the present Age, and undermines Posterity; For who, that hath [Page 19] common sense, observes not, that dark and drooping times, (the fruitful harvest of our silversmiths,) drive out natives, and keep out strangers, cut off the thred of life untimely with want, care, anguish, and disorder, oblige even the richer sort, (as it were in their own defence,) to decline or deferre marriage, and compel the poorer, at best to neglect, but shrewdly tempt them even to expose their Children? And who may not easily thence conclude, that the flourishing of trade and tillage, (which to our worms and weeds is a most nipping frost,) endeares any Coun­try to its people, allures forreiners, prolongs lives, and makes posterity even the Tenants welcomest stock, but the Land-lords only treasure and Jewels?

Where is now the treasure of the Nation, lying idle, locked up in Misers chests? Or if it be now employed at six per Cent. it can be but employed, reduce Interest to what you please.

Indeed a rare ground-work for the Raysing of Interest to forty or fifty per Cent. for, i [...] seems, you make no difference betwixt the general Employment of our stock to profit or losse: My father, I take it, in his first Treatise, hath laid down a sounder Maxime, viz. that where Particulars thrive not, the Com­monwealth is seldom greatly advanced.

Will our encrease oblige forreigners to sit still, and take their food and Rayment of our providing, granting it cheap.

Truly in many things, it is like, it may oblige divers of them, as the Cheapness of Polish corn hoarded by the Dutch too oft obliges us to buy it at great rates in dear years; But I presume, there are, amongst others, two pregnant and mighty instances, wherein a cheap growth, (justified by large crops, and flourshing improvements,) manifestly conduces to great Vent, viz. the Foundation of Manufacture, and Victualling of Ships.

'Tis well known, most of our Lands are upon their best improvements, &c.

Tis better known, that you impose herein a shameful mistake; For visibly the better half of them are still common Fields, and perhaps neer a quarter commons or wasts.

I would appeale to the impartial and industrious, whether six per Cent. hath discouraged improvements, or whether they [Page 20] have nor rather feared a cheap year, want of Vent, &c.

I would appeal to common sense, whether six per Cent. in name, but at least twelve in effect as to the Land, compu­ting our unequal Burthens, did not, and must not necessarily produce this want of Vent, by impoverishing Tenants, disabling them to wait for good Markets, and so leaving them to the buyers courtesy.

We have vast quantities of Fruit in England, and more we might have, without reducing Vsury, would our Gallants spend more of their time and mony upon laudable improvements in the Country, instead of wasting so much in London.

Store, saith the old Proverb, is no sore; But any thing must be said, how little pertinent soever, rather then in­fringe the Usurers supposed charter: I tell you, Sir, in short, Borrowers are bad Planters, and worse preservers of Plantation, but the Usurer, methinks, might do rarely well in both; For Planting, to successe I take it, requires great leisure and continual care, with a strong Purse.

But in good earnest, shall we undersel our neighbours, and will they long endure it? By what rare Arts shall we keep the knowledge of this hidden vein from them, will not they, if that will do, take the same course?

Let them take what course they please: God and Na­ture, with the Blessing and freedom of a just and gentle Govern­ment, have furnished us with advantages enough, even to some good latitude, if we abuse them not, and that the Usurer and his gang, with their wiles, do not undermine us, and blast our spring in its early blossom.

Will the Hollander, who lives cheaper, workes cheaper, sayles cheaper, builds ships cheaper, Navigates cheaper, and hath a Noble for our Nine pence, be ever undersold by us in the same com­modity? &c.

You will, anon make the Hollander a very fine Monster, of five heads, ten hands, twenty pockets, and never a mouth; And poor England, for ought I see, is wholy given over by the Doctour; well now, say I, may be a fit time for the Mountebanck, (as you call him) to trie a Dose upon his patient; Recover him, with Gods Blessing, it may, for while there is life, there is [Page 21] hope; Hurt him it cannot, for you have pronounced him a dead man: Sir, I have lived in Holland, and know in point of fact, that all Provisions are there at a Rate, neer double to what they are here, as needs they must be, not only from the smalnesse and populousness of their Territory, But from their vast charges of Embanking, Duties, and Tolls; And then I leave it to the Rea­der to inferre, whether their wages, (even to keep them alive, being thrifty enough in Conscience,) must not be greater, as I affirm they generally are, with a Confidence, I am sure, better grounded then yours can be: Some artificial advantages, indeed, they have of us, which, God be thanked, are reasonably ballanc­ed by our Natural ones, and we have divers defects, which would soon be cured, if our best heads and stocks were employd in trade, and not in Usury, whereby our dwarfes are put to grap­ple with their Gyants.

Will this make the French King revoke his Edicts against our Drapery, suffer his people to sit idle, eat our bread and wear our Manufactures, merely in regard of cheapnesse? &c.

For the first and last of these, I suppose, it may, viz. by keeping our wool at home for our own working, and shrewdly pinching him, as well in his Ingredients as Vent: For their eat­ing our bread, we aym not much at that, but desire and hope never more to eat theirs; However we may promise our selves, our Drapery thus encouraged will assuredly carry the Market, and that out Gallants shall have no longer any pretence to wear French Druggets, as they now say, for cheapness.

To what neighbours Standard would you have Vsury ad­justed? To the French? No sure, they pay more then we, &c.

It is now almost seventy years, since Usury in France was abated from eight to six Pounds and five shillings per Cent. by that wise King Henry the fourth, as a prime expedient to repayr the breaches, and desolations of thirty years cruell War, Judging, no other Medicine adaequate to the disease, for so it appeares by his solemne and Excellent edict in the French Story thus noted and related: The King, by these Edicts, had nothing relieved the necessities of the Nobility, if he had not provided for Vsuries, which have ruined many good and antient Houses, filled Towns with unprofitable servants, and the Countrys with Miseries and [Page 22] inhumanities: He found the Rents constituted after ten or eight in the hundred did ruine many good Families, hindred the traf­fick and Commerce of Merchandise, and made tillage and han­dicrafts to be neglected; Many desiring, through the easiness of a deceitful gain, to live idely in good Towns of their Rents, (mark this, for it is now become just our own ease, mony having so long escaped all our heavy Burthens,) then to give themselves, with any paines to liberal arts, or to till or Husband their inheritances; For this reason, (meaning to invite his sub­jects to enrich themselves with more just gaine,) to content them­selves with more moderate profit, and to give the nobility means to pay their debts, he did forbid all Vsury or Constitution of Rents, at a higher Rate, then six Pounds five shillings for the hundred: The Edict was verified in the Court of Parliament, which considered, that it was always prejudicial to common­weal to give mony to Vsury, for it is a Serpent, whose biting is not apparent, and yet it is so sensible, that it pierceth the very heart of the best Families. It was yet early-day, I take it, when this law was made in France, Anno 1601. at least twenty years before Usury had its first reducement from ten to eight per Cent. in this Kingdom, a thing, in it self, very observable; For had it not been for the miserable servitude of that people, and their other insupportable taxes, (the very twins of Usury,) it is scarce by any mans wit imaginable what effects so great and early a foundation of wealth and trade, (as perhaps the then lowest rate of Interest,) might before this time have produced in that ample and fruitful Territory, or what influence it might have had upon all its neighbours: Truly I never heard, it was since raysed, and will hold you great oddes it was not; And I durst likewise hold you an even wager, (having it from very good hands,) that the French King hath newly reduced Interest to five per Cent. Sweden, our Licensed Gazette acquainted us in a solemne narrative, the last year, brought it from ten to six at one large stride; Little, it should seem, regarding your profound objection of forcing nature by a law, even in a remote Northern tract, or rather De­sart, desperate, (one would think,) as to much improvement or trade: If yet you ask mee, to what neighbours Standard I would have Usury adjusted, I answer, certainly to the lowest [Page 23] in Christendom, if it might be, for that is evidently best, though somewhat more may for the present serve turn, the rather, because we hope, that with this seasonable lift at the brow of the Hill, it may tumble downward of it self, which, without it, it will never do, but rather rise in Extortion; For as to high and low Interest, it is equally natural for the one to soar with its own Wings, and the other to sink with its proper Weight.

Have not the French beaten us out of our Hamburghs trade as to the Manufacture of Gloves, meerely by underselling us therein to a great proportion, being favoured by their cheap labour only? &c.

Quote not the French for wages, least your Country­men stone you, their condition indeed is worse then the Gibeonites in Israel, or Israelites in Egypt, their King hath nine pence in the shilling of their Earnings: And yet like spiders, spinning their Webs out of their Bellies, a sorry shift they make, and a trade they drive for their Task - masters profit; For much may be done and payd, where men work almost without eating: But mark the consequence; France, the happiest soyl and climate for the extent now known, lies half of it wast, the natives even loathing their own Country, and burthening all the habitable World with their beggarly Colonies, one third of the Lackeys and Valets in Europe being Frenchmen, witnesse Doctour Heylin, who tells us, that once at Madrid, they banished them all as dangerous for their numbers, finding the French servants in that Town only, to exceed 30000. so just and natural is it for oppres­sion to disarme it self; And even thus the Usurer murtherd his own security, as appears by my Authours most genuine com­plaints, Page 4. and 22.

Surely we need not be long in quest after that which give the forraigner the great advantage over us, since I believe we have as good Mechanicks and as lusty Labourers to dispatch worke as any of them: How can wee then avow any other reasons, then cheap­nesse of provisions, course diet, and worse drinke, Parsmonious living and small wages? Whereby, through a constant practise, Forreigners will do that for foure pence which our people will not willingly perform for six pence?

But are wages higher with us then our neighbours? A [Page 24] blessed Grievance! God continue and encrease it; I do not hear that Scotland or Ireland are so opprest; Wages are fairely cheap­er at York then at London, yet I do not find either York greatly boast, or London much repine; Wages are the highest in Kent of any County in England, except Middlesex, is it therefore our folly. At Rochester you exceed those in the Weld, yet they, I suppose, would change with you: If once you could reconcile great trade to small wages, farewel Hans, the Philosophers stone were a trifle to it; Good Mechanicks and lusty Labourers you grant we have, and I could acquaint, (if I thought it need­ed,) that we have good brains and stocks, even those Prodigi­ous summes by you owned Page 35. scowr this Armory bright from the rust of Usury, to employ in trade or improvement of Land, and our work is done at once, for all these Cavills will sink, like froth, as indeed they are, if any disproportion there be in wages, (as some in every thing may there be, where the Ballance it self is faulty, and the main wheel out of frame,) the remedy falls in of course, and wages will, without more adoe, recover and keep their due Standard; Otherwise to dream of augmenting trade by stinting wages, too much resembles the judicious contrivance of that worthy Squire, whom nothing would please but to let his meadow for forty shillings the Acre, and buy his Hay at ten shillings the Load.

Will our fuell and labour which is the main charge of Iron be ever as cheap as in Sweden, though we knew not what In­terest meant?

No man, I dare say, can define, what the total extir­pation of Usury might or might not effect; Yet probably speak­ing, I shall admit they never will: And therefore in this, and possibly some parallel cases must referre you to the common practice of rival States, when both equally possess the ingre­dients of some important Manufacture, but the one, by reason of some circumstance, (like this of cheap fuell in a remote Northern Countrey,) cannot compasse it so cheap for Market as the other; What do they then do but help their own com­modity, (at least as to their own Use,) by charging the for­raigne with an Impost wisely proportioned to their own defect: thus have the French to our Cost lately clogged the importation [Page 25] of most of our Manufactures, especially our Draperies, and thus have we very successefully, without forbidding Flemish Hops, in effect excluded them, to the great improvement of our own so necessary growth; Whether any other temporary respect of league or trade with Sweden may Ballance so weighty an Interest as this of Iron, I leave to the wisdom of Authority, acknow­ledging, that I cannot see into the Milstone; Otherwise I dare pronounce, posterity may deeply repent our easiness herein, both in the future price of Iron, neglect of woods, and encrease of the poor; However, do we our utmost, repel Swedish Iron, and recover our forges, yet the present rate of Usury shall under­mine our woods, and render the price of that Staple commodity insupportable to us even among our selves.

The general conspiracy amongst Artificers and Labourers is so apparent, that, within forty Miles of London, Artificers are raysed, (against all reason,) from 18 or 20 d. to 2 s. 6 d. or 3 s. and meer Labourers from 10 d. or 12 d. a day to 16 or 20 d.

Your Conspiracy of Artificers and Labourers is a dan­gerous Plot indeed, much like that of Usurers, not to lend at abated Interest, but 'tis strange, say I, they should conspire only within forty miles of London? Surely, the only inconvenience as to our wages consists in the present disproportion betwixt Trade and Land; For our manifest Growth in the Bulk of our trade since the last fall of Usury having deserved, advanced wages in all our Maritine and Trading Towns, hath necessarily imposed the same upon the Countries adjacent, which, under their unequal pressures and impoverishment they cannot bear, so fruitful of mischief is errour, this is at present a reall and accumulative grievance, particularly to us in Kent, by reason of the special influence we receive both from the City and Navy; But to re­trive it otherwise, then by easing Land for the future in the Rate of Taxes and Usury were indeed a work worthy of your Art.

But since Vsury hath been reduced, hath not the vent of our Manufactures dayly lessened, and doth not tht whole nation dwindle into extrem poverty?

Usury in respect of Land hath been so farre from abate­ment, (as I have often prooved,) that it hath been, in effect, [Page 26] excessively raised by our unequal burthens, though Usurers per­haps will not allow that bitter to others, which to them was so delicious; For they have all this while, (no doubt, like true Israelites,) dwelt in the Land of Goshen; As for trade, which, God be thanked, hath had easier fetters, and whose exemption hath been our only support, by all the measures of it that can be taken, it is, (all things considered) miraculously advanced, as your self also confesse, Page 43. where you justly observe the prodigious riches of London, and our Merchants plentyful way of living: But it is common with sophisters in a bad cause to con­tradict themselves.

Sure I am, I know many Artificers, and Trades-men, who now live well and borrow, &c.

But how many do you know, that have borrowed and broke; 'Tis a hard battle, say I, where none survive.

You are so sharp set in the quarrel, the poor Fisher­man, who never owed above twenty Pounds in Vsury cannot scape you, &c.

Surely, Sir, I aymed not at the poor Fisherman or Huckster, (though perhaps the use of twenty Pounds to him, in his model, may be likewise paenal enough,) but at the Royal fishing trade, which I take it, requires even a national stock, and cannot now be effectually promoted, but at very low In­terest.

Who shall judge what moderate benefit the Borrower may cheerfully afford the lender? &c.

You have, by the way, (unwarily, I suppose,) urged one of the best arguments for condemning all Usury, and redu­cing it to the honest participation of gaine or losse, so abhorred by Usurers; But my answer is, the Usurer doth, upon the whole matter, in our case, prejudge and conclude himself, even by his choyce.

But will you not by way of gratitude and requital allow the Vsurer a liberal reward for hazards as great as an East-India Voyage?

When he hath tried the hazards of an East-India Vayage, he may the better measure his demands by it: But I doubt he finds it easier and better pastime to talk of Robin Hood, then [Page 27] draw his bow: Yet let him examine whether the hazards he ob­jects be not of his own creating by uncharitable contracts, and whether a due abatement of his profit would not mend his se­curity; For two per Cent. we offer him competent ensurance.

What mean those swarms of lewd and Idle persons, who prowle about in every part of the Kingdom, or those gangs of Gyp­sies, that appear amongst us at noon-day? &c.

Because your present objection seems to be grounded upon our pretended general want of ingenuity and industrie, I shall endeavour previously to remove this vulgar Prejudice; And first for ingenuity, I say, it appeares reasonable to suppose, that People, at least, of the same or neer the same Climate and Meri­dian are born with the same or neer the same Principles of in­genuity: that which afterwards makes the difference, is law, example, Education, Custome, and other forraigne accidents of life, either ennobling or depraving our natures: Thus the examples of Princes and Generals active and always present in Battles and Campes, together with Military rewards and Pu­nishments maks Nations and Armies valiant: Pure doctrine en­livened by diligent Preachers, adorned by holy patternes, and advanced by wholsome Constitutions Civil and Ecclesiastical, makes people Orthodoxe and devout; Hope of successe in their affaires, with a nimble spurre to endeavour, and prudent curbe of sloath, makes men inquisitive and ingenious: I say then we are now, caeteris paribus, as ingenious as any people living, for every one, by a kind of civil instinct, understands and closly pursues his best interest, and what would you have more? To begin with the Usurer, (for with him indeed we must begin) he, I am sure, of all men is in the right; for you, in your first Page, have resolved and secured him in point of conscience, by positively affirming, that hiring of mony is as necessary for the well being of Mankind as hiring of Land or Houses; and those, we know, were never questioned by any Casuist: Then you lay him down a second doctrine every whit as wholsome; that his profit should reward his hazard, which sometimes, you say, is excessive; Be [...]wixt these two, what should hinder him from concluding, that what we now call extortion, may be, in many cases, every whit as just as common interest; The latter having [Page 28] no more reall stamp of Authority, then the former: Thus I have heard that Highway-men fancy they acquit themselves and come off with honour, by pleading, that they see no difference betwixt their courses, and some worshipful trades, but the danger, which, they suppose, much improves their title, and so, by your rule, evidently it doth. Being thus inwardly fortified, his next con­sideration is profit, and surely that affords no dispute: I have heard, that an eminent person, to prove that beasts have Logick, would introduce a hound or Beagle thus discoursing; The hare went not that way, for there I smell nothing; nor that way, for there I smell nothing neither; but this way, for here, indeed, I have a seent of her. To the Usurers choyce three wayes are propounded for the employment of his stock; Land, Trade, and Usury; And thus I presume him to argue: Land I like not, for there I smell Taxes, Duties, and losse of Rents; Trade I like not, for there I smell Pyrates, shipwrack, trusts, Customes, and Flemings; But for Usury, surely there went the hare, for there is the sweet savour of mortgages and vayles with Immu­nity Ease and Dominion. Of the borrower I have little to say, for I looke upon him all along not as a free but necessary Agent or rather patient: What would you expect from the Labourer? He workes not if he can chuse, and in effect tell us, if you find working so good, work your selves; Is not this a witty answer from a Labourer? Hath he not, thinke you conferred notes with six per Cent: To thrive by pain-taking he sees little hope; live from hand to mouth, it seems he can, tying one hand be­hind him. If then he work in dear years, take his ease in cheap, and cast himself upon the Parish in age or sickness, doth he not very discreetly? Even those Gangs of Gypsies you mention, I doubt not but the Usurers, wholesome Principles, applied to their condition, may likewise bear then out in conscience and Pru­dence; the Usurer himself being ( qua Vsurer,) to the Common­wealth but a bigger and graver sort of Gypsie Now for our Industry, it appeares by the premisses, that is meerly frustrate by our ingenuity from one end of the board to the other; For if U­sury and sloath be more pleasant, profitable, and secure, Industrie becomes folly, and that so it is, who can doubt seeing it by so intelligent Persons so dearly preferred: It must then be lawes [Page 29] grounded upon Equity and Vertue, which must clear this end­less Laborynth, and Correct this vicious habit, and that of sub­duing Usury must march in the van. And for infallible high-water markes to know the tide or season, take this; When rich and ex­perienced Citizens leave off Trading, and betaks themselves to Interest; When monied men in the Country generally decline Purchasing, but enquire for security and hug good mortgages; When honest men make it the business of their lives to sell at any tolerable rate, and pay their debts, but cannot; When the mortgage, being at first but half, is become full or neer equal in Account to the Land; When Statutes, judgements, and Re­cognisances grow as familiar as Bonds, and new shaped securities are dayly minted; When the ruine of all Borrowers and most Farmers is bespoken; When it is weightily objected, that there are many Borrowers for one lender, (though surely as much lent as borrowed;) When Professions are overcharged, but the Land understocked; When, by reason of the Farmers indigence, Markets run low with mean crops; When, according to the French Kings Edict, many good and antient Houses are ruined, Towns fined with unprofitable servants, and the Countries with Miseries and inhumanities, Traffick and Commerce of Mer­chandise hindred, tillage and handicrafts neglected, &c. When Usurers would passe for Orphanes, and in their own defence, turn Preachers and Patriots; When Parish duties encrease, yet Vagabonds swarm; Then, then, I say, the fruit is ripe, Gather it, or expect abundance of windfals; Yet even then, I doubt not, but abatement of Usury, and equal Taxing, will with Gods Blessing, and some allowance of time, (for betwixt Ebbing and Flowing is always still water,) retrive our after-game, revive Farmers, excite improvements, and largely answer all the Benefits specified in my former treatise.

Were our poor industrious and frugal, and wages rea­sonable, (which I fear will never be, till the abused (rutch of State-maintenance be rescinded, or better regulated,) they could not want employment, though Vsury were at eight per Cent.

I agree with you in the rescinding of State-maintenance, as a provision only proper for the times it was made in, when Monasteries were newly dissolved, and Trade in its infancy; [Page 30] But if you will take from the poor this Crutch, you must withal cure their Lameness, and set them upright upon their own legs, lest they lye too heavy at your doors: This, I affirm, neither eight nor six per Cent. will do, nor any thing but the turning of our main stocks out of the muddy Chamel of Usury into the pure streams of Husbandry and Traffick, by a round abatement and equal Taxing of Interest-mony; For did you not marke, how eight per Cent. in France, even seventy years since, when per­haps that rate was lesse in proportion then five is now, filled Towns with unprofitable servants, spoyld Traffick, tillage, and handicrafts?

I am perswaded, few men come into great poverty, but by their own idle, irregular and wicked Courses, &c.

Censure not so uncharitably, at least declayme not so freely; For, I dare say, if it were examined, there are more and severer texts of Scripture, Canons of the Church, Sentences of Fathers and eminent Doctours, condemning Usurers, then [...]uthrifts or Vagabonds; But the truth is, if men be commonly idle, they will be lewd of Course, (for standing waters will putrefie;) And if poor men want work, or can live at half work, they will be commonly idle; if farming and handicrafts decline they will want work, and yet perhaps may miserably live at half work; all things being cheap not for reall plenty, but by reason of the seller's exigence; And if Usury still oppresse Industrie, Farming and handicrafts must naturally decline: and if the U­surer, having thus oppressed the poor, do likewise reproach them; he seems to speak in Pharaohs proper dialect.

Who can but admire, that whilst our poor are thus lazy, wastful, and disorderly; the Dutch and Walloons, who live under the same laws, should notwithstanding, by some innate vertue, or peculiar rules of their own, preserve themselves in their ancient simplicity, and be so remarkably industrious?

No man need admire it, if he will but consider, what they were from their first arrival here, viz. A choyce band of people, who being famous Artificers, bringing good stocks with them, and forsaking their Country for their conscience, gave indeed abundant proof of their integrity and innate vertue, which they have derived to their posterity; Who, (as you rightly note,) [Page 31] still observe certain peculiar rules of their own; the chief where­of are, that they dread borrowing, Cherish Industrie, hate oppression and discord, provide liberally for their reall poor, and preferre honest labour and trade before Usury, though more easy, and perhaps more profitable; which Gods blessing will always attend.

Our Fathers could count one two and three, and some of them pay ten per Cent. for mony, and had Sons and Daughters too to provide for, and yet suffered thriving Timber to stand to its full growth, &c.

I could alledge another manner of reason, then you dream of for the standing of Timber to full growth in our Fathers time, viz. their general abhorrence of multiplying mony by mony, now so current and Orthodox; witness the Statute 13. Elizabeth which in its Preamble recites, that all Usury, being against the law of God is sinful and detestable, thereby convinc­ing us of the sense of that Age; As also the Act 21. Iacobi, which foreseeing, what perverse use might be, made of their Limitation, by construing it to an allowance of Usury, notably provides against the mistake; But I will admit, the inconsiderable Value of their Timber, at least in places remote from Market, must needs have been a second motive, (proper for such as then owed or wanted mony) to let it stand: Otherwise, if our Fathers could have had tolerable prizes for their Timber, and yet would either pay ten per Cent. or decline the receiving it with a safe conscience, I durst, without Irreverence to them, pronounce, that they could not count one, two and three.

Can we well hope, that any thing but severe laws can make half the nation wise in this particular? &c.

The only laws, in this and most other cases, are those of encouragement; Those of Compulsion, by experience, signifie little; And what encouragement so manifest, as abat­ing Usury?

I say this Course, (forementioned,) or the like, being duely observed, would bring mutual benefit to the Commonwealth and Planter.

Believe me, Sir, the Planters benefit is not so clear as you surmise; For to the planting of groves, I take it, more is [Page 32] required, then the bare notion, or written direction, viz. Chargeable fencing, losse of Rent, constant Residence, perfect leisure, and long forbearance, with allowance, not withstand­ing, for Dammage, so as, it seems to be the proper work only of rich and contemplative men; Wherefore you might for the present have reserved your good rules, till we be in somewhat a a better condition of planting, or, at least, of preserving what we plant, by abating Usury and delivering us from the Bondage of debt, which will either intercept or interrupt most Improve­ments of this Nature.

What improvident actions, (besides the Calamities of the late ill times,) have contracted great debts upon many of our Gentry, is too apparent to be covered with figleaves, &c.

Methinks, Sir, I cannot better resemble most of your Arguments upon this subject, then to the Sentence of a Country Doctour, who, in a visit to his Patient, dying of the stone, gravely pronounced, that if he could pisse freely, he might doe well, or to the right witty prevention of Vomiting at Sea by holding a large Peble in the mouth: For, when we demand a Remedy to our present Incumbrance and embasement of Land and Rents, you bid us look better to the decay of our Manu­facture, and exporting our coyne: you recommend to us the Reforming our Luxury and avoyding Idleness, you tell the Gentle­man, he must get and keep out of debt, reside in the Country, plant groves and orchards, and read Seneca; The Labourer you direct to be always at work, and accept such wages, as his Master may afford to give; The Vagabond you admonish to keep at his home, or, if he have none, to get one, to mend his man­ners, and be a better Commonwealthsman, then he hath hitherto been; Why do you not likewise chide the Farmer; because, in truth, his farme is understocked, ill fenced, and out of heart? Seriously, your discourse is very charming, the beasts and Trees, one would think, should again dance to such a pipe: Now, for the party here accused, viz. the Gentleman, you advise him to sell timely, he entreats you to purchase fairely, for unlesse you will buy, he cannot sell; He protests, he offers you almost half under value, and makes it his chief business in this World to sollicite you; But you sleightingly tell him, Land [Page 33] stinks of taxes nothing, is sweet but mony; Thus you wish him to keep close at home, but will you suffer him there to stay? Live he should within compasse, it must be a very narrow com­passe, if it be your Reversion, you will teach him to play the Epicure, you will reform him with a witness, before you leave him; By all means, he must plant, but is it not that you may Gather? Surely, Sir, you speak all this while Ironically, for when you list to be a little more serious, you have other language within call, you can tell us, Page 2. of borrowing to keep out of Prison; Of 1500. per Annum brought to a trifle without ill husbandry, Page 10. Of hazards by Tenants, paying Taxes of all sorts for what is really none of his, being a sort of Bay­liffe to the savage Usurer, Page 36. Of keeping up Interest in terrorem, Page 40. You can, I presume, pronounce of a person greatly incumbred, as of one that hath plague-tokens; Nay you can foresee ruine upon its march in a great Estate, (once dipped as you terme it,) at ten, perhaps twenty years distance without present sale, be the owner never so provident; You require vast mortgages, and other dayly new invented securities, to borrowers as paenal as Usury it self: The fact therefore, I am sure, you too well know, give me leave to acquaint you with the cause (since those you offer are but accidents;) A poor man that had a very sore Leg, shewd' it the Chirurgeon, and mourn­fully asked him, if it must not be cut off, to which he pleasantly replied, that trouble, perhaps, might be saved, let it alone for a while longer, and lay but Diaculum to it, it will soon enough rot off without more adoe: such Surgery, me-thinks, is the best you can here afford, viz. trivial cheap, but therefore de­structive to us, who, I take it, want effectual means; For In­cumbrance is to the Commonwealth an Ulcer, deeply rooted in a viciated habit, fed by a Rebellious humour, viz. Usury, with its Accomplices, unequal Burthens; Conquer or tame this hu­mour, the Ulcer heals; But Plasters shall never Mitigate, diet shall never alone correct it; Having once got this head, it is too proud and stubborn for any thing but Cauteries, and Radical courses; Else it will need no other inflammation then its own to fester and spread.

Sure I am, nothing more argues a nation ripe for destru­ction, then. Intemperance, Corruption of Manners, and Exor­bitancy of expence in all degrees of men, &c.

If you will, indeed, reclayme our Extravagants, begin with the Usurer, 'tis he that needs your moralls; He is the Captain of our Banditti; Reduce him, and they will soon dis­band for want of a head; His life is a State of outlawry, no man, like him, persists in defiance of Authority; Lay what taxes you please, be they never so just, necessary, and clearly imposed, he laughes and tells you to your face, hee'l not pay a groat: Taxe Usurers, in good time, Taxe Princes! All the other Brood you mention are but the litter and spawn of this Venemous beast or Serpent; Pardon the Expression, I only borrow it from the Parliament of Paris.

You will say, this is very odd, indeed, to arraigne Usurers for Excesse; But, alas! All our madness is not in Bedlam, nor all our Riot in Tavernes: There is a more grave and dangerous de­bauch, whose thrift is the Kingdoms Prodigality: I have heard of a plain Country fellow in a great house at Christmasse ▪ who being made drunk for spor [...], and disgorging, called the Butler, and sold him, see, see now, what you have done; Let the Coun­tryman be who you please, the Butler, I am sure, is the U­surer, well known by his box.

Have we our selves been sensible of improvements of Land in Purchase, proportionable to the several Retrenchments of V­sury?

Ask the Parliament now sitting, they tell you, our im­provements of Land are visible; whether sensible then, or no, do you consider.

When mony was at ten per Cent. Land was worth, (as several discreet and aged Persons informe me,) 15 or 16 years Purchase, &c.

This I affirm to be a bold mistake, and prove my aver­ment, 1. from the Ballance of Land and Interest, which never [Page 35] fayls but to the Prejudice of Land in bad times; 2. From the plain recital of the Act 21. Iacobi declaring then a fall of Land, even below its due proportion, as the natural effect of high In­terest; 3 From the testimony of my father, dedicating his tract to that Parliament, wherein he sate, and avowing twelve years purchase, then not controuled, and sure, not modestly to be questioned fifty years after: But I see you are one of those deaf men I mentioned, that hear only what you list.

When mony was at eight per Cent. (being the time of our greatest Prosperity) Land yielded but 17 or 18 years Purchase, and not frequently 20, &c.

Surely a faire Rise in so short a Period, being but 13 or 14. years inclusive at most, for about the year 1637. I take it, began our Scotish Commotions, which might reasonably check its progresse, (as my Father in his second Treatise insinuates they did,) for civil War and Usury are closer Confederates, then you are aware of, and both sworn enemies to the Land: 'Twas multis utile bellum that succoured his friend at a dead lift, and enabled him thus to trample upon freeholders and Farmers; High Interest and Free-quarter, me thinks, are first Cousins.

But now by our unhappy expence of forraigne growths and Manufactures, over and above our native commodities ex­ported, and a succession of Taxes, great and heavy like the Waves of the Sea are not our Land-lords in debt, many Borrowers and few lenders, and Land fallen to 16 or 17 years Purchase, where tis like to continue, for ought I see, (though Interest were reduced) till we have more mony, fewer Borrowers, and lesse Land to sell: For if subduing Interest would have done the desired feat, 'tis strange to me, that falling from ten to six per Cent. which is almost one half, should not appear ere now so visibly, as to stop the mouths of all gain­sayers.

Nothing will stop the mouths of some Gainsayers; Yet to stop all mouths but those that gape on purpose, (as Usurers, we observe, do, and that very wide,) I will not referre you to your self for an answer, though well I might, for surely your question amounts but to this, how come our Land-lords; having been so long and grievously opprest; to be so deeply incumbred? Neither will I barely thank you for so strongly and pertinently [Page 36] urging my arguments for me, but will likewise, in requital, set you on your way, which it seems, you have lost by a Fog: You alledge, that there are many borrowers and few lenders, but is there not, say I, as much lent as borrowed? Is there a Borrower without a lender? And might not our lenders, (who, it appeares, are great ones, being few to many Borrowers,) soon become Purchasers, if, (as the phrase is,) they were free? And is not the pinching of Usury in rate and taxes the readiest way to make them free, that is forward to purchase? And may not such forwardnesse of theirs make borrowers like­wise free, that is, able to sell at tollerable prices, for the pay­ment of their debts, which now, it is certain, they cannot? And may not such sales and payments soon clear and contract the number of debts and debtours? And will not such clearing of debts in time make few exigents? And will not few exigents make sellers thin? And will not the thinnesse of sellers, even by your own confession marvellously rayse Land? You reproach us with the present fall of Land in purchase, but doth not your tenant paying you 75 pound in mony, and 25 pound in lawful Bills, reckon that he pays you 100 pound per Annum? And do you not believe his account? And have not most Usurers treated and purchased accordingly? And doth not this, by your own allowance come pretty neer my account? And is it not much, that it should still do so, considering the extremities of some, and moderation of others? You object the expence of forraine commodities above our own exportation, but have not Land-taxes: (the Usurers darling, however you now exclaim against them, for old friends may sometimes wrangle, and shake hands again,) dispatched many of our Freeholders and Farmouts half undone by the War? And hath not their ruine made much of our Land lie waste, and more be ill husbanded? And must not such waste miserably impair and decay our Growth? And must not such decay starve our exportation? And may not trade so founded easily exceed in its importation? Shew me, if you can, the weaknesse of these chaines.

None will lend at three or four per Cent. but upon some other speciall consideration, &c.

Too many, I doubt, will still lend at four per Cent. as [Page 37] well for the Rents reserved, and thereby secured, as also for di­vers other good causes and considerations; The chief whereof, I suppose, will be, that they can no other way, for the present, get so much, so easily, safely, and to them conveniently, yet more, 'tis hoped, will purchase, which I take for much the wholsomest kind of loane, wishing that Usurers thought so too.

Must not trade, (to the infinite losse of the Nation,) be hereby engrossed by a few, who have prodigious Summes at com­mand, to the excluding of small-stocked Traders, and young begin­ners with little money?

You are still for Pedlers and Higlers, the Usurers Cattle, whom he milkes almost dayly, and at last must eat them lean, (for fat they can never be,) I am for the Worshipfull Trader, even the Usurer himself, that hath stock to cope with a Fleming viz. those prodigious Summes at command or Interest, (so I take your meaning) which, methinks, I had rather see generously employ'd in forraign Conquests, then, like intestine warre, eating our own bowells, and praying on our vitals: As for the engrossing of Trade, that is, indeed, your wisest Argument, for have you not noted all along, how Trade was dispersed by high Interest, but, engrossed by lower? And may not I observe, how the Builders tongues are confounded? Nine in ten of your brethren, at least, your sages objecting, (directly in your teeth) the in­evitable growth of a mechanick Trade, (as they call it) meaning thereby, I suppose, a Trade, not so profitable, as some of them now possesse, nor so easy, Lordly, and secure, as the present Rate of U sury.

Having hitherto shewn, how little your generall invectives against our Luxury, and other reigning vices signifie to your Pur­pose, I shall now, (with lesse noyse, but I hope more evidence) turn your own weapons against you, by proving, that Abate­ment of Usury is, in its own nature, the greatest sumptuary Law, perhaps the only effectuall one, that Policy, with Justice can contrive; Therefore, no doubt, recommended by God him­self to his own People; Therefore, by the wisest of Common­wealths, both antient and modern, layd as the very Corner­stone of their Fabrick; Therefore, by King Henry the Fourth [Page 38] of France, a Prince of vast experience, after the desolations of Civil Warre, aptly chosen, both for a restorative of past, and antidote against future Distempers; Therefore, by that Politick Emperour Tiberius approved, who, though he justly sleighted the Pedantick Notion of reforming popular excesse by coercive Lawes, (as appeares by his notable speech to the Senate upon that subject) yet, as a main provision for publick security and good order, from his own treasury, erected a Bank for noble Romans, of declining fortune, (though of the Patrician faction) to borrow for divers years without paying Interest; By that single Act, redeeming in great measure the scandals of his tyran­ny; Finally therefore, by most familiar proofes, asserted; For who sees not that the excesses of this, and indeed every State, are fed by three plentifull and indulgent Nurses, viz. drooping debtours, easy gainers, and impotent Vagrants? The first of these, (like those that project to live but from hand to mouth) loathing to day, and fearing to morrow, resign themselves to dissolute habits, that so they may forget those miseries which they cannot prevent, and be in part revenged on disaster by sleighting it, perhaps they judge it nor altogether unreasonable for them to partake with an oppressour in their own spoyls, as persons unhappily matched, sometimes think it just to share with their licentious mates: The second, (wallowing in their super­fluity, through an unweildy stock managed to certain profit with little burthen or trouble, whilst their betters carke and droop) neigh and praunce, like high-fed horses, and by the old Pro­verbe, Light come, light go, care not what they squander, per­haps at Dice, because their very sheepes tayles, they think will pay the reckoning, be it what it will; And though this character may not fit the Usurer himself (who seldom revels but wisely, and at the borrowers charge) yet his Executor, possessing an Estate, with a curse appendant, without proportion to his qua­lity and breeding, oft-times consumes it as dissolutely as his An­cestour shrewdly got it: The third and most general, finding vertuous courses servile and unprofitable, and nothing sweet but summes usuniously improved, which they want, and see not how to compasse, first turne tayle to industry, and then meeting with common frailty in the [...], fill up the measure of our disorders: [Page 39] Now whither a convenient corrosive applied to Usury may not, with allowance for humane drosse, by relieving the first, re­trenching the second, and employing the third, probably in time, reclaym and refine them all, I leave to found and impar­tial judgments.

Why doe you taxe high Interest with injustice and oppression though the Law tolerate it?

High Interest, I take it, is a terme of scandalous sound, equivalent to that of excessive or biting Usury, which no man that owned conscience had ever yet the face of brasse to defend: Even for common and general Rates, give me leave again to tell you, you still abound in your wilfull mistake of Limitation for Toleration; since no Assembly of Christians, that deserved the name, or had the face of a Church, (no not heretical) ever gave Usury the least approbation, other then their silence, finding, perhaps, the Sons of Zerviah too hard for them; No Christian Authority that I have heard of, Popular, or Despotick, ever allowed it a current stamp: Mahomet himself hath prohi­bited it.

I dare avow, that since Vsury became so tame, we have two Gentlemen in debt for one that was before, &c.

I durst referre it even to the Usurer himself, if I had any hope he would speak out, whether Interest be now a tame beast; And whether, betwixt its Bear-like rage, and Fox-like wiles, it hath not been of late more savage then ever: whither, if it had continued at ten or eight per Cent. it would not, long ere this, have strewd our highwayes with carkasses; And whither already it have not so sufficiently worried us, that it needs no lon­ger be upheld for a Bugbeare.

Is not this to robbe Peter to pay Paul, and as bad as stealing sheepe, and giving the Trotters to the Poor for Gods sake? &c.

Boast nor too loud of this Spanish Proverb, At least, be not so fond of it, as to bring it in by the head and shoulders; For, to my knowledge, it is one of the best and aptest similitudes com­monly used to check the arrogance of Usurers in their pretended Almes.

Sir Francis Bacon saith, It is a vanity to conceive; That [Page 40] there would be borrowing without profit, that is, a proportionable reward for the disservice the Lender oft-times gives himself, and ha­zard he runs.

Were Sir Francis Bacon now living, I verily believe, he would grant three or four per Cent. to be no incompetent reward for Loans in general: 'Tis true, in respect of ten, the rate where­with he was acquainted, it seems a trifle; But nothing upon earth is great or small, save in comparison, as the Dogge is a dwarfe to an Oxe, but to the Mouse a Monster: In Pagan Kingdomes, where weekly or monthly encrease is usually exacted, any thing per Cent. would perhaps be counted moderate; In Colonies and new Plantations, where neither the situation and Commerce of the Place, nor quality of the Inhabitants affords security or cre­dit, fifteen, nay twenty and thirty per Cent. hath been current; And he that so trusted, was reputed charitable, (as Charity there went) though it beggered them all: In Tributary Provinces, and mis-governed Countries, or remote from Traffick or Sun-shine, exigence it self almost commands high Rates; Neither, indeed is it much material in some of them, what the Rates be, where nature scarce admits of any improvement, or employment, but for mean stocks: In England, about sixty or eighty yeares since, Trade was in its early non-age, Traders were few, Builders, Planters, and Improvers thinne, and small competition we had with our neighbours, whereby the Returns of stock must needs be generally large, even liberally to reward any tolerable Interest; But now to argue upon that principle, were a paradoxe, like that of maintaining the antient Rates of Purveyance, Statute, (or as my Author judiciously propounds) stinted wages; For, I take it, the reason of varying them from time to time, is the same through out, with this single, yet notable diversity, that as all other things advance, Usury must abate; Upon which account, I ve­rily hope, or rather doubt not, but that (with Gods blessing) the next generation may judge even four per Cent. an extravagant rate for money.

The Vsurer sayes, Rather then venture at three or four per Cent. He will keep his money, and once in a year get more by Lurching, &c.

See my mistake! I took the Usurer for an Orphane, an [Page 41] impotent person, at least a very harmlesse fellow, till you pro­claymed him, at need, an errand Lurcher. Well! It seems, he is a good man, and a fair Gamester, that he should not all this while, so much as think of his tricks, till he was put to his trumpes: But let him take his course, your own Author, Sir Francis Bacon acquaints us, that bigge words and menaces are the constant marks of imbecillity, and we all know the great Usurer too wise to play much, or commonly, at that game, for fear of mischief; Yet to do him perfect Right beyond any future cavill or exception, I shall fairly examine, upon what ground of reason and justice he sleights the benefit of four per Cent: The Usurer, you say, thinks that profit too small, but is not ra­ther his eye too bigge? I affirm, it is still great, perhaps exces­sive and offer to prove it by all the measures of square and honest gain, whither you will consider his title, his stock, his pains, his skill, or compare him with others; His title is meerly ad­vantage taken of his Brothers exigence; His stock, (sever it from his Farm) scarce equals a Barbers, or indeed a Rat-catchers, his Agents and servants being all maintain'd by others; His skill comes short of a Fidlers or Juglers, Minors and Ideots being free of the company; His pains doe not much exceed the Vagabonds or Gypsies he so upbraids: Now to compare him with his Neigh­bours, who, one would think might somewhat better mer from their Country; His Neighbours, I suppose, are Freehc [...] ­ders, Farmers, and Traders; For Freeholders you tell us al­most in every page, what their profit is, for you wonder they are so mad to borrow, you advise them at their peril to sell upon any terms, and you deride their imaginary improvements: Of Farmers, I think I need not offer a syllable, Res ipsa loquitur; We are then reduced to Traders, who are of two sorts, For­raign and Domestick; The Domestick, being Shopkeepers and Artificers, depending on the Casualty of Vent or Custom, have a Benefit so contingent, as no Rule concerning them can well be framed, nor other observation made, then this in generall, that some indeed thrive, and many fayl, even of those that set up with their own stocks, but still were Borrowers: Forraign Traders are either in those few trades, which we naturally or politically engrosse, or those many, wherein we intercommon [Page 42] with the Dutch and others; The former indeed, I suppose, may oft-times yeild good returns to the Merchant; But neither is their foundation very large, nor, perhaps altogether so found as to build our fortune, on them: In the latter, being of more vast and solid advantage and behoof, the present rate of Interest must of necessity, as to many of them, wholy exclude, in all, so en­counter and curbe us, that we cannot expect any cheerfull pro­gresse, or otherwise than to truckle under the Hollander, a trade, whose benefit is not, (one would think) very hard to calculate: Whence then is our Usurers lofty pretence, or but colourable claim even to four per Cent.

Few will sit down so contented, having been used to greater profit, but will rush upon several projects and undertakings, which, for want of skill to manage, may redound to the equall prejudice both of themselves and the Commonwealth.

Sure I think, I may now sing Nunc dimittas, For I have lived to hear the Usurer talk of projects and undertakings too; His Businesse hitherto hath been only to sit warm, and un­concerned, applaud his own happy conduct, for thriving with such ease; censure and deride the Tenant for taking such pains to be undone, the Landlord for not falling near half of his rent, and consequently his inheritance, but trying the most probable con­clusions he could think on, to make it; in some measure good to him, and venturing to turn farmer of his Land himself, upon meer constraint, Rather then let it to the Growes; The stander by, it seems, could then see more then the Gamester; But four per Cent. belike, 2 little alters the case, and infuses such metal into a roguish Usurer▪ poor wretch, that all on the sudden he is on fire, and a perfect Knight-errant, for what would you expect more of Don Quixot himself, then to rush upon projects and undertakings? Well Sir, 'tis the best thing said in your book: Turn him loose, say I, he is throughly fledged, having got, God be thanked, store of Feathers upon his Back; And the Common­wealth, I dare say, will freely venture her share in his Flight.

Is not the greatest part of Trade driven by young men with small stocks?

I hope, Sir, you mean the Costardmongers trade, or the poor Fishermans before mentioned; Sure I am, if our principal [Page 43] trade be so driven, it is high time to reduce Usury, to some purpose, and call in to our rescue the prodigious summes you boast of; Neither will I pretend to urge a greater Argument for the restraint of it, then you have here contrived: But our Comfort is, the Usurer now understands trade too well to trust the trader up­on meer Credit, or with a small stock, very farre.

Is not your answer to Widowes and Orphanes very harsh and churlish?

Really, I much marvel you should think so; For first I tell them of other Widows and Orphanes mainly concerned in Land, who, by the uneasie Rates of Interest and taxes now re­ceive prejudice, at least equal to the Benefit of these; Secondly I mention a numerous train of unhappy but honest borrowers, perhaps no lesse worthy of support then themselves, who, by the same pressures have been, and are dayly almost ruined; These, being evidently relievable by restraint of Usury, I desire may likewise be considered, and put into the Counterscale: Thirdly, I conjure them to deal as they would be dealt with, (a hard les­son, I know, for any oppressour to learn,) in not exacting from their borrowers, that which I calmly say they cannot afford, or which my Authour himself, in other language, (perhaps, more effectual and peremptory,) often affirms, must ruine at least all our borrowing Land-lords to give.

But wholy to silence the Rage of these masked Usurers, who exclaim as if Christianity were expiring, when Usury only is reducing, I shall distinguish the Plaintiffs into two Ranks, viz. truly impotent and intelligent; For the truly impotent, or infants and Orphanes properly so called, I offer these considerations. 1. That they are certainly beholden to the several falls of Interest for their present ample provision, which is much better even at four per Cent. (all things computed,) then those of their Rank, generally, enjoyed at ten. 2. The Orphanes of London, (who, by reason of their assurance, fare, I suppose the best of any,) complain not much of that rate. 3. Abatement of their profit will certainly facilitate and improve security for other Orphanes, and may so turn to better account. 4. By raysing the Value of Land, their fellow Orphanes, the children of Loyal and worthy Parents, (for number and quality, perhaps more considerable,) [Page 44] may be likewise provided for, who otherwise can never look for portions, at least, to their degrees: The intelligent I fairly admonish, to save their stakes by purchasing betimes, which, in Mortgages, where the title hath been scanned, were, methinks, an easie exchange: This, I hope, is no such cruel hardship, or dangerous Doctrine; for though some Doctours hold Usury to be consistent with good conscience, yet few, that I have heard of, maintain it necessary to good life: And further to prove it most reasonable, thus I argue; Either the Rents of Land do now competently Ballance the Interest of mony, or they do not; If not, where is their Justice? If they do, where is their preju­dice? Besides, I am directed by an honest Gentleman and their special Advocate, one Mr. Manly, to acquaint them, That five Pounds five shillings a year in Land once surely settled, whereby they shall only venture their Rent, which is commonly secured by stock upon the ground, is better then a hundred Pounds in mony at six per Cent. sometimes tumbled and tossed at Usury like a ship in a tempest, and utterly lost, and sometimes remayning uselesse by them, like a vessel becalmed: If now they will not be ruled by their best friends, what hope is there say I of persons so refra­ctory and self conceited? In case their genius be not for Land, let them trie the Seas in forraign trade; If they can be brought neither to fancy the Land, nor trust the Sea, let them build granaries, to deal for grain and other commodities in cheap times, and keep them for better Markets, and with as much ease, as a Usurers heart would wish, sometimes double their stock, so employ'd; or let them advance our national Manufactures with clean hands, and no doubt with competent gain: If nothing but Usury will content them, tell them from me, I smell an evil savour, and that it were great pity, but they were pinched in their superfluous, and (to the Commonwealth) every way pernicious Revenue.

Is not Interest with us the lowest by Law in Europe?

I verily believe, there is no law in Europe for Interest, save only the law of restraint, which you are pleased still to misconstrue for Licence; But I apprehend you, Sir, you would have us stay, till Usury reduce it self without Law: very fine! You maime us, throw us into a deep ditch, and crie, God help you.

Will you or any other Land-lord sink his Rent, because his Tenants complain of hard pennyworths?

Are not Usurers ever the first to reproach Gentlemen at least with folly, for not sinking their Rents, if they but seem too dear for the Land? Are not all Land-lords even now upon Abatement, and glad at any rates to get tenants, though surely not so sufficient as yours? Do they not freely discount for taxes and extraordinary burthens? And do not all good Land lords allow for bad times, nay even for very bad years? I tell you, Sir, I ever did, shall, nay, at my Peril, must sink my Rent, if the tenant produce but the tithe of those reasons, which most borrowers now may: For though I shall never admit, that let­ting of Land is Usury, yet will I not deny, that racking of Rents, and taking extreme advantage of strict Covenants is Ex­tortion: And yet by the way, I must note, that the worst of Land-lords will find it a harder matter thus to extort, then the best of Usurers doth, the trade of letting Land not being driven in the Dark; And there being, I take it, no procurement, con­tinuance, double mort-gages, or treble Bands-men in his case to be got; Nor other probable security, then barely the penny­worth, but the markets of Land being free and open, and the Values, to a trifle, publickly known and allowed.

That trade will regularly bear present Interest, who hath not observed, that the careful managers thereof have had a thriving time of it?

That trade will not regularly bear present Interest, who hath not observed, that the carefullest managers thereof, (if borrowers,) have been eaten out and undone? And that our old Foxes are so well aware of it, as to preferre English Mutton be­fore outlandish Venison? However the main stresse of this Ar­gument, I must tell you, lies upon Land, for surely few but Land-lords either do, or, now, can borrow considerably: To Land therefore the fall and taxing of Usury is most indispensably just and necessary; to trade, undeniably wholsome and profi­table.

As for idlenesse sucking the Brests of industrie, 'tis no mor applicable to lending mony upon a valuable consideration to them, who by industrie and skill live thereon, then to my Land-lords [Page 46] hiring his Farm to the Laborious Husbandman, &c.

When you produce me any one Text of Scripture, Church-canon, or Christian Sect, that deserves a civil name, disallowing the Rents of Land, or any one temporal law restrain­ing them, your bold assertion shall be considered: I, on the other side, offer to prove, that the laws of this and many Countries, (how tender soever they were of Propriety and Freehold, as indeed it concerned them to be,) have, as they saw Occasion, from time to time, retrenched Usury without scruple, or saying so much as, by your leave, Mr. Usurer; Which, (notwith­standing your Categorical thesis,) shrewdly argues, that the ju­stice and title of them hath not been reputed altogether the same; Nor doth the Usurer himself, I suppose, pretend to be our law­ful Land-lord, for then he would be readier to keep hospitality, serve upon Enquests, find Armes, repayre Churches, and pay Taxes, then of late, methinks, he hath been.

Is it reasonable to imagine, that all men are of equal brains or education to traffick in one sort or other? &c.

You will prove anon, that borrowers have more brains, then lenders, though formerly you told them, in effect, that if they had any brains at all, they would not be borrowers: Truly 'tis a comfort still, thus to be cajoul'd into our ruine; and that though we find our selves the poor, yet an Oracle, it seems, hath pronounced us the wiser: Sure, Apollo was of another mind, when he made my Alderman his Laureat; Nor doth six per Cent. I take it, much glory in the improvement of his Sons knowledge and experience, when he runs out, and borrowes; Nor would any sneaking Usurer, I suppose, like to be taken at his word, and have a Guardian by the King assigned him, which methinks, were a charitable work, he having so slender a capacity with so fair an Estate; in which case, Land-lords are of course, provided for; But, alas, too sure it is, that when a Usurer is made, there is commonly as good a Merchant marred, as most that walk the Exchange.

The present Interest, (admitting much were borrowed,) can be no just scare-crow to the builders, since all builders I have yet met with, may have eight, nine, or ten per Cent. and very good Rents for their ground besides.

I rejoyce at your good news, though it be yet early day: But give me leave, Sir, from thence to observe, how sig­nally trade having groaned under few or no new burthens, hath thriven and flourished, even in uncertain times, since the last fall of Usury; Whilst the Land is even sinking under the load of its chayns; For, (not accounting losses and hazards, which perhaps would deserve other-like ensurence then your mony,) three per Cent. I must tell you, goes farre with us in the Coun­try.

He that employes his own mony, matters not much, whe­ther it be six or four.

Quoth the good Huswife, we have all provisions of our own, and a figge for the Market, sure, it were happy for England, if Usurers were in all their affayrs so indifferent.

It is a contradiction, that many lenders and low Interest live together in a declining Commonwealth.

You say very right, a Contradiction there is through­out, for where low Interest is, the State can scarce naturally decline, nor will there need much lending.

For the Credit of six per Cent. I will appeal to all the World, if the rebuilding of London goes not on much faster then could be reasonably imagined.

For the Credit of former abatements, you should say, and encouragement of future.

What Pity is it, I must conclude, that having examin­ed, and found how little likelyhood there is, that subduing Interest will encrease the fruit and revenue of the Kingdom, we have small reason to hope, it will augment the revenue of the King.

Land will certainly be improved by it, if we may be­lieve either reason, experience, or Authority; and, I suppose, what is good for the Land, is not bad for the Land-lord; Trade will evidently be augmented by the instance of most flourishing Commonwealths, which have ever begun with it, and the pro­verb tells us, what is sawce for a Goose, is sawce for a Gan­der.

Your Expression of Land being in safe hands seems very Odd and dividing.

It is, I am sure, no new Maxime, that the Crown, [Page 48] (without competition of title) ever was, and probably would be safe in the majority of Landlords; Neither did, I suppose, our late experience disprove it: Doubtlesse in distracted times, they have most at stake, and lie most to pawn: Usurers and Py­rates are own Countrey-men.