HAving taken a serious view of the Dialogue lately publish­ed by thee, and having weighed and considered it, in the fear of the Lord, I found it incumbent upon the, to reply unto it, both upon the account of Truth, at which it strikes, and for thy Soules sake, as also for others, that any simple hearts, who have received hurt by it, may be undeceived, and thy un­faire dealing may be manifested, in order whereunto, before I enter upon the examination thereof particularly, I have some things to lay before thee.

And first, as to the manner and method of thy book by way of Dialo­gue, it is no wayes allovvable from thee, being but a meer shift, to shuffle by, those other papers aforesaid, from being noticed, o [...] regarded, where all these controversies are spoken to a [...] large.

Secondly, the nature of this kind of wro [...]ng ought to have engaged thee, to set dovvne, as largely, what could be said on the one hand, as on the other, and to have brought in all the proofs, and arguments, al­ledged by the Quakers, or at least the most considerable, but in that thou hast done nothing so much as becoms a man far lesse a Christian, as any who have converse [...] with that people, cannot but be sensible of. Thou hast made a bare representation of the Quaker [...] principles, and that so scantly and mincingly, that thou frequently give [...]t thy self occa­sion to fight against a man of straw. But that wherein thou hast mani­fested the ba [...]nes of thy Cause, and thy weaknes in pleasing for it, is that the substance of what thou hast said is nothing else, but that which was writ, in the papers before mentioned, and so largely answered already: Whereof thou art altogether silent and wouldst insinuate, that what thou hast here writ, was never answered by any Quaker, yea is unanswerable.

Thirdly. In the beginning of thy Epistle, thou alledgest that thou hast examined divers Opinions (of the people called Quakers) and after [Page 9] [...]yall, found them to be naught, where as thou hast not so much as mentioned, far lesse answered, the Arguments used by them, and in the manner of signifying their principles, thou givest not their own words, but couchest them, in such words of thy own framing as may bear the most disadvantagious construction; hence thou sayst, that they deny original sin, that they overturn the doctrine of the Saints perseverance, that they call the ordinances of Christ, the inventions of men, all which things as so conceived, are false.

4. There hath appeared in thee, ane airy spirit, full of vanity and selfe conceit, a thing which thou seemest much to cry out a­gainst in others, and wil not see it in thy selfe, hence in thy Epistle, thou boastest, that thou hast so succinctly confuted their errors, highly commending the manner of thy writing, as that, which, for ought thow knowest, was never done by any, who never hand­led these things with greater plaines and condescendingnes to the meanest capacity, and in so narrow a compasse, as thy owne words bear. The signifying that it was the judgement of some, that the pu­blishing of thy papers might tend to edification; the crying up of thy Zeale, for the ordinances, and many other passages, too tedious to relate doe very much evidence, an itching desire in thee to be com­mended and applauded in thy enterprise.

5. In the writing and framing of thy discourse thou hast introduced thy selfe, most child [...]shly and ridiculously, and takest frequent occasi­on to play upon thy own wor [...]s, and snatch, at them, as if thou hadst got some great advantage, not unlike dogs, that bark at their owne shadow, or these cr [...]aturs that run and are mad, when they see themselves in a looking glasse; supposing it to be some other, when ind [...]ed it is but their own [...] Image, that this is thy way appears in ma­ny pages in thy book, as they are heerafter examined.

Now more particularly.

So soone as thou enterest upon the matter of debate Pag. 2. thou beginnest with great disingenuity: an evidence of what may be expec­ted or will be found throughout the rest. For notwithstanding the words of the Quaker. are of thy owne framing, and that they lye pa­tent before thee, yet thou hast not had so much honesty, in thy answer as to subsume them aright. The Quaker sayes, I use not flat­tering [Page 10] titles, and give thee not heathenish salutations and bowings, least I should sin and be found an Idolater: in answer to which thou beginnest with a false subsumption, saying thou wonderest that he should call salutations and bowings heathenish, and Idolatrous. Indeed it is no strange thing, that thou and others misrepresent us, and belye us in repeating our words at a distance, when in this man­ner of writing thou canst not truly repeat, those words, which thou placest for ours, when they be just written before thee. Is it not one thing to say, that Salutations that are heathenish or heathenish salutations, cannot be used without sin, and idolatrie, and another thing to say, that salutations and bowings are heathenish, and i­dolatrous? Who is so blind as not to see here a vast diffe­rence. As to the first, who dares deny it to be a truth, that vvill offer to call himselfe a Christian? to vvit, that salutations, and bovvings, that are heathenish, cannot be used vvithout idolatrie and sin? But as to the other that Salutations and bovvings are heathenish and idolatrous, being taken in generall, vvas never said, nor judged by the Quakers, and therefore to charge them vvith it, is utterly false, and a lye, for such salutations as Christ commands, and the Apostles practised, the Quakers dearly ovvne, and frequently use, and find in them great refreshment becaus there through the life flovves, and is communicated from one vessell to another, but such salutations, thou art ignorant of, and of the life that is there through communicat­ed, vvhich bears testimonie against all that is heathenish and idolatrous, and leads out of it, and therefore in thy dark mind, vvouldst from thence, plead for the customary salutations of the heathen, as appears by the proofs thou bringest vvherein thy folly is very much mani­fested. Christ, sayest thou, commanded his disciples, vvhen they entred into a house to salute it, hee did so, and what more? And if the house be vvorthy, their peace shall be upon it, to vvit, the peace through the salutation intimated or offered, becaus they brought to that house, the tender of the Gospell and glad tydings, vvhich vvas a good salutation, but vvhat vvouldst thou inferr from that? that vve ought to doe of our hats one to another, a thing vvhich they never did, by vvhose example thou vvouldst presse us to doe it, and it is knowne, that it is a thing unusuall in that part of the world to this day. That other proof, alledged from Paul, saluting the Churches makes as litle if not far lesse to the purpose, Paul in his Epis­tles, [Page 11] who was at a great distance, vvisheth grace and peace to the Churches from God the Father and the Lord Iesus Christ; Ergo wee ought to take of our hats. Can there be any thing more ridiculous? is this the great esteeme yee put upon the scriptures to take the salutations of the blessed Apostle Paul signified by the motions of the Holy Spirit, vvhich vvas the very blessing of Paul to the Churches or rather of the Spirit through him, for to prove your doing off hats, one of the cor­rupt customs of this vvorld. Is not this to make a mock of the Scrip­turs, and a stretching them to plead for that, against vvhich is the natu­rall tendencie of their testimonie. Next thou givest us Abrahams prac­tise; but every practise of Abraham is not a rule to us, nor to you either; the like may be said of that of Moses. Though Moses did obeisance to his father in law that makes nothing against us, far lesse his kissing of him, and asking him of his vvelfare, both vvhich things the Quakers deny not. Thou acknovv ledgest that religious vvorship given to the Creature is idolatrie. What is Religious Worship but that vvhich is given to God? and is not the bovving of the body, and uncovering of the head, the signification of your Worship to God? And if yee give the same to the Creature also, where is the difference? for in the external signification it is not distinguished, unles it be said to be, the inten­tion, which if it be, wee shall have the Papists pleading the same, for their adoration of images, and the relicts of the saints. And truly your being found in these things gives them advantage in that matter. That courtesie and Christianity are not repugnant, vvee deny not, and there­fore for Christians to be Courteous one to another is very fit, vvhich in­deed that the Apostle commands wee acknowledge: But that Courtesie consists in taking off hats, and bovving to one another, that rests for thee to prove. In the next place, to prove the indifference of using the plurall number instead of the singular to one person, thou sayest, thou art very confident, the Kingdome of God consists not in vvords so am I too, yet I strange, thou shouldst say so, considering thy principles, for vvhat is all your preaching but words, yea vvhat is the Scripture it selfe, (I meane that vvhich yee have of it, to vvit the letter) but words? And seing the very Gospell according to you, is but a company of words being a declaration of vvhat past, many hundred years agoe, hovv has thy zeale here to oppose the Quakers made thee forget thy selfe in this matter? Thou sayest, that to vvhich the sin­gular [Page 12] number is agreeable, the plurall may be applyed to without making a lye. The proofs alleged for that be Matth. 23. 37. Luk. 22. 31. 3 Epistle of Iohn, vers. 13, evince nothing in this matter, for the Contexts being rightly considered vvill clearly make out, that the vvords are not applyed to one single person only, exclusively of others, and that of Luke is to a flock comprehending the disciples, to vvhom hee vvas speaking just before, but there is no confounding of the number, vvhere one single person is only spoken to, and that vvithout understanding of any more. And though indeed it vvere good, that the difference vvere not greater, yet the differences in these things evidence that there be differences in greater matters. And in respect that yee are estranged from the principle that leads out of corruption in all things, therefor yee cannot see the vveight, that is in these things vvhich is more then yee are avvare of.

Pag. 3. Thou seem [...]t to take great advantage of these words. Heretofore I walked according to my light, and the same I doe still, and while in the integritie of my heart, I walked in the way, thou art now in, I dare not say, but God, countenanced me in it. Here thou makest a great stirr as if thou hadst brought the Quaker to a great Dilemma. But to passe by thy examining of the weak objection, which thou makest in the Quakers behalfe which I beleive was never alledged by any of them unto thee, as that wherwith they either only or cheifly defend themseves in this matter. To wit Salomons sacrificing at gibion. As in many other particulars so in this thou statest the Qua­kers part, but too weakely, and faintly, yea disingenuously, for the light, which wee walk according unto and desire to walk according to it for ever, is the light of Christ in us, and not our light otherwise then by the free gift of God which wee doe freely acknowledge did shine▪ in our hearts in some measure in the tyme, wee walked with you (though wee did not so know it) and gave us some knowledge and dis­cerning of things, and begot a measure of integrity and honesty of heart towards the Lord in divers of us, and turned the bent of our hearts truly towards him in measure. And the Lord countenanced and visited and sometims refreshed us secretly in these dayes, with a re­gard to that measure of integrity he found in us, and not becaus of, or in respect unto that way of Profession wee then walked in, which way was truly a hurt unto us and not advantage, and it was not your [Page 13] way, which wee walked in with you, that the Lord countenanced but the integrity and uprightnes, which hee had begot in us, and had placed in us, as a tender plant and as a root in dry ground, un­der the oppression of your way, which burdened it, and untill wee were brought out of your way, by his arme which drew us, his seed and plant in us suffered, and was oppressed as a cart with sheafes, but after wee were delivered from yout way, and turned to the way wee now walk in, the seed and plant, which suffered came to receive strength, and be raised unto life and Dominion, as many are witnesses at this day. Nor is this thy argument, any other, but that which which the papists did throw against those who sometymes walked with them in the popish vvay of profession some hundred years agoe vvhen they came out from among them, vvhom the Lord visited, vvhile they vvere among them, and at tymes refreshed them; till he brought them forth to vvitnes against them; for the Lord hath a people in Babylon, and hath his sheep, vvhich are scattered on the dry and barren mountains of many sorts, and wayes of professions, vvho have some tender breathings, and desires after him, and vvith a re­gard to his breathing seed in them, hee visits them, and refresheth them at tymes, vvhich yet proves not that they should remaine, vvhere they are in Babylon, and upon the dry mountains of dead professi­ons and observations. For the Call of the Lord is unto them to come out of Babylon, and his arme is stretched forth, to gather them, off from all these hills, unto his owne holy hill, Mount Zion, that they may feed and lye downe with them, who were as sheep going astray, but are now returned unto the shepherd & bishop of their soules. Also may not those of the Episcopall forme object the same, against those who have left it, upon a further discovery, and yet its like thou will not deny, but some who have beene under the episcopall forme, had a measure of integrity to God, while under it, and with a regard to that the Lord at tym's refreshed them; God does not frequently discover his will to his Children, all at once, nor lead them throughly out of things, out of which, they are to come, in an instant, and yet that hee countananceth them in there travel cannot, be denied, did not the Lord countenance Cornelius, before Peter came unto him? As appears by Acts 10. 4. And yet this was no argument, that Cornelius, should not owne the Apostles and Christians, and did not the Lord counte­nance [Page 14] the disciples, though even, when they wer following him, they were ignorant of many things, and in some things wrong, and whither did not the Lord countenance Luther in his testimony a­gainst the Pope, as well in the first, as in the last steps of it, although it appears: that when hee first began to preach, against indulgences, hee intended, not such a thing as afterwadrs followed, but things opened more and more unto him, till they came unto that period, they were brought unto, befor his death; and who of you will say, that God did not countenance him from the beginning whilest he held many things, which hee himselfe came to see to be wrong, and erred very grossly in the matter of Consubstantiation. The like may be said of Iohn Husse and others, whom you acknovvledge to have beene Martyrs: at last thou endest it, vvith a question, asking vvhither it be safe, to leane to the audience of that light, vvhich one vvhile sayeth that such a vvay is the vvay of Christ, and another vvhile thou must come out of it, for it is the vvay of Antichrist: To vvhich, vvhat is above mentioned, ansvvers sufficiently, yet further I may easily retort the Question thus, upon the most of all the nationall Minis­try in Scotland, vvho are novv licking up, that vvhich they hereto­fore cryed out against as Antichristian and vvith fire and svvord per­secuted those vvho offered to plead for that vvhich novv they both practise, and avovv themselfs in. Novv as the fault of this cannot be ascribed to the scripturs, which is the rule, whereby they pretend to be guided so neither can any mans instability that pretends to be guided by the light (if any such thing could be showne) prove the light a guide not to be followed.

To prove that Christ is not in all men, thou arguest thus. Christ is not in all men, becaus the Scripture speaks of a being without Christ in the world, to which thou addest the Reason, the unconverted must needs be without Christ, becaus they want the uniting principle, vvhich is faith; to ansvver, that Christ is in them, but not in union vvith them, thou sayest is a fond distinction becaus the Scripturs vvay of expressing peoples union vvith Christ, is by asserting Christ to be in them, vvhich thou takest for granted, and from thence dravvest thy conclusion, but if it be found to be false, then the vvhole fabrick Falls, to the ground (as indeed fals it is): For even according to the Scriptures, the in being of Christ in men sometimes signifies union, and sometimes his existence in them vvorking and operating [Page 15] in them, by vvay of repr [...]fe, and judgment, as also by vvay of call and invitation, to prepare for union vvith him. As appears by the very first Scripture cited by thee, Iohn. 15. 4. 5. vvhich ansvvers not thy mind. For vvee say not, that vvhere there is no union, fruit can be brought forth unto God, but mark the last part of it, hovv much it makes against thee, vvithout me sayes Christ, yee can doe nothing. For how becoms an unconverted man a convert, but by having Christ to vvork vvith him? & vvhere does Christ cooperate? Does hee not there vvhere the vvork of Conversion is wrought; and is not that within? So that Christ must needs be in men, before they be in union with him, whereby the faith may be wrought, by which they are united to him and as to that other Scripture, 1. John. 3. 24. these and other Scriptures which might be cited hold forth that in being of Christ, which is by union, but say nothing, against his in being in them, where the union is not, for he is in them who knovv him not and are Darkness, Ioh. 1. ver. 10. and 5. and he was crucified in the Corinthians and Galathians, which was in the tyme of their unbeliefe, 1. Corint. 2. ver. 2. and Galat. 3. ver. 1. for the words in the greek are [...], i. e. In you; and indeed there can be no greater absurdity them to say, that Christ is in no man, but in them with whom hee is united; for Christ is not separa­ted from that light and seed, which is of him, that is in every man but is united with it, which bears testimony against all iniquitie, but many tyms, men are far from being in union, with that in them, which witnesseth against all sin, as experience sufficiently teacheth. Then, if that be in them, which is pure, and if Christ be in that pure the [...] Christ is in them, and if they be not united with that which is pure in them, then are they not united with Christ, which is in the pure, that is in them.

It seems strange to thee, that Christ should be in the heathen, and they not know him. Was it not as strange, that hee should be among the Jewes, who had tho letter that did bear a testimony of him, & they not know him, 8. that notwithstanding his miracles, and other proofs hee gave of himselfe, they should so far mistake him, to judge him to be an impostor & blasphemer. Thou sayest, is Christ so u [...]couth to them, hee dwalls in, as not to reve [...]l himselfe unto them, but though wee say that Christ is in all men, wee doe not say, hee dwelleth in all men▪ [Page 16] for dwelling signifieth more then in being, and yet I say, hee does re­veale himselfe in some measure unto all, in whom he bears witnes a­gainst iniquitie, for the revelation of Christ unto one, is not alwayes, by giving the knowledge of what past externally, but is a revelation of the righteous judgement against the transgressour in them, which to say, that the heathen wanted is false, and contrary to scripture Rom. 1. 18. 19. 20. Ioh. 3. 18. 19. 20. yea and contrary to the very acknowledgement of Americans, who have confessed, that there was that in them, which judged and reproved evill; Whither or not, their ignorance of the outvvard transaction, derogats any thing from their capacity of salvation, coms here after in its place to be examined, together vvith that other saying of thine, vvherein thou shevvest, the like disingenuity, viz. that the saying that eve­ry man hath sufficient light to lead him to life and salvation tends to put Christians in the same condition vvith Pagans: becaus say [...]st thou Christians have no more; and the preaching of the Gospell, and the benefitt of the scripturs, are little to be regarded, for vvithout them, men have sufficient light to lead them to th [...] things of God; for the saying that men have sufficient Light, hath no such tendency, for hee that is tru [...]y and real [...]y a Christian, (and not nominally, on­ly) is one, that is united to Christ, and b [...]l [...]ives in him, now it is one thing to have the Light, and another to beleive in it, which is clearly made out by that scripture, wh [...]le y [...]e have the Light be­leive in the Light [...] may become the children of it. And that it is a great advantage to have the knowledge of the scripture, as out­vvardly, vvee de [...]y not, forth reaching a [...]d raising of th [...] feed in them, that are a far off, and also for the comforting and refreshing of them, in vvhom it is raised, as the scriptures are used in that Spirit, vvhich gave them forth. Therefore vvee labour & travel so much for that end, and are found using the Scriptures testimony. If it be said, that therein vvee contradict our principle, seing it is possible that people may be saved vvith out the scriptures. I ansvver Iay. For ma­ny things are profitable, vvhich are not of absolute necessity, you your selves acknovvledge, that other book [...] besides the scriptures, are not of absolute necessity unto mens salvation and yet you judge not all other books useles, yea, yee to much relye upon books. Also you doe not say, that it is impossible that any can be saved, vvit­hout preaching upon the scripturs, and yet you reckon not prea­ching [Page 17] to be in vaine. But doe yee not rather contradict your prin­ciples, who say that the number of all those who ever can be saved, is so definite from all eternitie, and that without respect to their faith­fulnes or diligence in the using of the means, in the foreknowledge of God that none of them can misse of Salvation, and yet keep such a stirre about preaching and ordinances, for you deny, that God hath decreed men unto savation, whom in his foreknowledge hee did foresee, would be faithful, and diligent in the use of the means.

Pag. 7. Thou sayest all men have not saving and sufficient light in them, becaus the Scripture saith that some men are brutish in their knowledge, [...]erem. 10. 19. But why didst not thou cite these words, For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the Lord, therfor they shall not prosper. Wee see the proofe of this, at this day, but from thence, how makest thou it appear, that some men want Saving light: the pastors are now as brutish, as they wer then, and it is becaus they turne their backs upon that light, and will not follow it: therfor wee have the more need to bear testimony unto it, and against their brutishnes, who reject and despise it. Next thou citest Rom. 3. 11. There is none that understandeth. But, will that inferre that there is not any saving light in them? Why understand they not, but becaus they are not turned to the light that can give them understanding? It is supposed sayest thou, that the light in some may be darknes. So it may indeed, to wit, that light, that is gathered, from the carnal and earthly wisdome, which is from below, where it takes the letter of the Scripturs, and ads thereunto its commentaries and consequences, setting up this in them, as their only light, wee find that light proves but darknes; but that will not inferre that the true light, which coms from Christ, is or can be darknes unles in that sence, as the day of the Lord is called darknes, in Scripture, for even the true light, unto them, who reject it, is as darknes, in that it gives them not that comfort and joy, which it giveth unto them, who love it, and owne it, but troubleth and affrighteth them, as the night, and the darknes. So that these Scriptures stand in good unity with the Principle of all mens having saving light in them. Next thou objec­test that having of sa [...]ing light, and grace presupposes Conversion; But that I deny, for on the contrary, Conversion presupposeth having light and grace, by which and to which men are to be converted, So that before a man be converted hee must have Saving grace in order to convert [Page 18] him, even as, the being healed of a wound, presupposeth the plaister, or salve, but not on the contrary, for, the application of the plai­ster, presupposeth not, the being healed. But whereas, thou sayest, what need is there of his turning, when men are in this state already? thou misrepresentest us, for wee doe not say, that all men are in a state of light and grace; to be in a state of grace, is to stand in grace, which the wicked doe not stand in, yet this hinders not, but that grace is communicated unto them, whereby they may come to a state, or standing in it, while the day of their visitation remains.

Againe thou undertakest to prove, that all men have not sufficient light, two wayes; first, that all men, have not the Spirit of God. jud. 19. to which I answer, that there may be a sufficient light in men, who may be said after a certaine manner, not to have the Spirit, as being such, vvho, though the Spirit be in them, to invite, call, and dravv them unto God, yet resist his dravvings, and so separate themselves from it, so continuing untill the day of Gods visitation unto them, come to an end, concerning vvhom it is true, that then, they have not the Spirit so much as to invite and call them, unto God, or to give unto them, the least tender of his love. And though all have not the spirit bringing forth the fruits thereof in them, to vvit love, mecknes, gentlenes, &c. as no vvicked persons have, yet all, even the vvicked in a certaine day, have the Spirit in them, to reprove and convince, yea to call upon them: and strive vvith them, in order unto their Conversion▪ for the Spirit of God reproves the world of sin. John. 19. 8. and Acts. 7. 50. Yee stiffe necked and uncircumcised, yee doe alwayes resist the holy Ghost, and Gen. 6. My spirit, shall not always strive vvith (or in) man and many more to that purpose.

For a Second reason of its insufficiency, thou sayest, it reveales not Iesus Christ a saviour, in respect, it gives not a discoverie, of his incarnation, passion, resurrection, &c. Citing, 1. Cor. 2. 2. and from this place, thou wouldst inferr, that the Apostle preferred the know­ledge of Christ, as crucified outwardly, to all other knowledge. Answer. Though wee willingly acknowledge, that to know him, even as he did outwardly come, and was crucified, &c. Is a Good knowledge, and of great profit, and comfort to them, who believe, yet wee deny, that the knowledge of him, as outwardly crucified, is the best, of all other knowledge, of him, or to be preferred to all [Page 19] other wayes of knowing him, nor does that Scripture. 1. Cor. 2. 2 prove it. For Paul, is not speaking there, of Christ, as crucified outwardly in Iudea, but of him, as hee was inwardly crucified in the Corinthians, when Paul first came unto them, to preach the Gospell, as the words doe plainly import, being rightly translated out of the Greek, for I determined not to know any thing, [...], i. e. in you, but Iesus Christ, and him crucified. This was the Apostle his care, and travell in his ministrie, to declare and hold forth unto the Corin­thians, and other gentiles, Iesus Christ, who was crucified in them, in his suffering seed, even that seed of light and truth, which suffered, and was crucified in them, under the burden of their transgression, in the time of their unbeliefe, and to preach, salvation, and delive­rance from sin, and wrath, through Iesus Christ, according to his weak and low appearance, in them, in the suffering seed, through their beleving in him, and closing with him, as manifest therein, according to which, hee said to the Galathians, that Iesus Christ, was evidently set befor their eyes, crucified in them, [...], and Ephes. 3. v. 8. hee said, this grace was given unto him to preach, [...], i. e. in the gentiles, the unsearcheable riches of Christ, parallel to which, is that of the Apostle, 1. Col. 27. for so should all these pla­ces be translated, which riches of Christ lay hid and wrapped up in them, in the seed of the Kingdome, which was the least of all seeds, even as the riches and fruitfulnes of a tree lyes hid in the seed of it, which coms to be brought forth, as the seed, takes root, and gets liberty to grow up, unto the due stature, so for this the Apostle laboured, that people might know Christ in them, and might embrace him in their hearts, that so hee might be formed in them, Gal 4. 19. And they might know him to l [...]ve in them, and his life to rule in them; which is more, then to know him, as outwardly crucified, and indeed, none know, the weight and greatnes of vvhat hee suffered outvvardly, but vvho knovv him, first, as hee hath suffered in them, and suffer, and become crucified vvith him, so as to have a Sympathy, & fellovv feeling vvith him, even, as the mem­bers suffer, and are pained, vvhen any thing hurts the head, or heart. And vvhereas thou sayest, you see, the Apostle judges the know­ledge of Christ crucified, to be that one thing necessary. Wee deny that the knovvledge of his being outvvardly crucified is that one thing neces­sary, [Page 20] for people must knovv him in them, Know yee not, that Christ is in you, unles yee be reprobats, 1. Cor. 13. 5.

As for thy charge, upon the Quaker, saying, with what face can you blame me, for being in darknes, seeing your opinion is, that all men have sufficient light in them. It is frivolous, for though the light, vvhich is sufficient be in thee, thy opposition to the light, blinds thee, and hinders thee from seing light, a man may have a candle burning in his house, but if hee put it under a bushell, it vvill not give him, the sight of things in the house.

That there is no other name under heaven, wherby any can be saved but the name of Iesus Christ, is granted, but that name is another thing, then the bare expression, or declaration and knovvledge of vvords or things, as with out; becaus his name is said to be a strong tower, wher­unto the righteous fly and are safe; vvhich is another thing, then the bare nameing of his death, and crosse vvithout, for many unrighteous plead a right to that and can fly unto it as vve see by the example of the Papists; To vvhom it seems, yee vvill needs joine your selves in this matter, vvho say, that the outvvard naming of Christ, and signing vvith the crosse puts avvay Devils: and that vvee are of an­other mind then you in this matter, is much to our advantage, becaus vvee knovv the inward is the maine thing, and vvher it is enjoyed, the efficacy, & benefit of the outvvard can not be vvanting, though the distinct knovvledge of it be not had. The knovvledge of Christ his crosse within vvhich is his povver, that crucifies unto the vvorld, is more then the knovvledge of the outward, and to knovv Christ after the Spirit, is more, then to knovv him after the flesh, as is clear from the vvords of Paul; though I have knovvne Christ after the fllesh, yet hence forth, know I him so no more The Apostle Peter knevv vvell, that God vvas not so narrovv hearted, as yee vvould have him to be, therefore hee said, that hee had seene, that with God, there was no respect of persons but in every nation, hee that loveth righteousnes, and fear­eth God, is accepted of him. You your selves dare not deny, but that some infants, and deaf persons are saved by Christ, vvithout the externall knovvledge. If you say they are not in a capacity to knovv these things, I ansvver, so neither are many of the Gentiles, vvho never had these things revealed unto them. But if the externall know­ledge be necessary to the one, vvhy not to the other? And it thou sayest that some infants are in the decree of election, I aske at thee, or [Page 21] any of you, vvho of you, has seene the decrees of God, and hovv knovvest thou, that none of the Heathen, are inrolled into them?

And vvheras thou sayest. Is not the application of Christ his blood and sufferings, necessary to them that would profit, and get good thereby? For though the blood of Christ be a healing plaister, yet the plaister must be applyed, ere the sore can [...]e healed. Now what application can the soul make of Christs blood, who knowes no such thing? the blood of Christ is applyed by faith but true faith is not a blind faith. Answer. It is granted, but this blood is knovvne and felt within, to wash and purge the conscience, for Christ as hee is within, is not without his blood, which is spirituall, even the pure blood of the vine, and is that wine of the kingdome which is inwardly felt to wash, and to refresh, which hee givs to them, who know not distinctly the outward sheding of the blood, as it was many hundred years agoe, and which many are ignorant of who have heard much of the outward shedding of his blood, but know not the blood, as shed and poured forth in them to sprinkle their consciences from dead works, for it is a mistery sealed up from all who stand in opposition to his light within. But there, marke thy owne words, The plaister must be applyed, ere the sore can de healed. Must not then saving grace be applyed ere, the soul be converted, or healed? Contrary to thy other assertion, Pag. 7. that having of saving light and grace presupposeth conversion, that is healing.

As for thy deceitful insinuation, to render us odious, That if our principles were generally owned the nations in one age, or two, would be overspread with as palpable darknes, as the heathen nations at this day are. Seeing it has no just ground, wee returne it upon thee, as false and malicious: for It is the owning the light & other principles held by us, therein, which will make these nations, and all others who owne it, and them, to overflow with the true and saving knowledge of God and Christ, but so long as they follow such blind guides as thy selfe, who oppose the light, darknes will cover them, as at this day, notwithstanding all their professions, and confessions of him, while in works they deny him, and remaine estranged from his light in them. The reason, thou addest is blind and unreasonable, For accor­ding to you (thou sayest) the light within us, is a sufficient teacher, take heed to this, and there needs no more: For wee say, the light within must [Page 22] not only be taken heed unto, but beleived, and obeyed and walked in; which who doe, it will lead them to read and make use of the Scrip­tures, and will lead them to the assemblies of Gods people, and to heare and receive the ministrie of those, whom God sends, yea to love and esteem them greatly, for their works sake, and it will lead them to owne Christ, and the benefits of his death, and sufferings in the outward, and give them an understanding, how to conceive, and use a right those things, as opportunity is given them.

Pag. 10. Thou sayst, Christ is a light, who communicateth light to all men, but where find you, that the light communicated to all men is Christ himselfe? wee must not confound the light giver, with the Light or enlightening given. Answ. Wee doe not confound them, but wee must not divide, or separate them, as thou and you doe, for where the light or enlightening from Christ is, there is Christ himselfe; hee is not separated from it, but is in it, and with it: wee must not be so grosse, as to conceive that Christ enlightens men, in such a way of outward distance, as the body of the Sun, being so many thousand miles above the clouds, enlightens our naturall eyes, but comes not neare us otherwise then by its influence, and rayes; for Christ is near unto every one, no lesse then his influence, for in him wee live and move and have our being. And this nearenes of his unto all men, in a day, is more then that generall presence, in respect vvhereof, hee abides, vvith all the works of his hands, for as much as hee is in them to enlighten them, that they may beleive Joh. 1. 9. compared vvith 7. Verse. Pag. 11. Here because thou canst not deny, but that there is light in all men, thou sayest it is common­ly called the light of nature, and that some remainders of knowledge, and prin­ciples of good remaine in man, after the ruins of Gods Image in him, as when a city is demolished, some foundation of houses doe still romaine. But how is this consistent, with what you say, to wit, that there is no good thing at all in men unconverted, and that man fell wholly from God, and that Adams fall was not in part but wholly, as to all things, that are good? And that wee derive nothing from him, but that, which is corrupted, and defiled? But the Scriptures testimony is plaine, that since the fall, the free gift or grace of God, is come upon all, unto justification of life. It is not said, justification is come upon all: but the free gift or grace of God, is come upon all [Page 23] unto justification, so that all may be justified, if they did close with it, Rom. 5. 8. And God so loved the VVorld, Iohn. 3. 16. And this is the condemnation of the VVorld, that Light is come into it, Vers. 19. Which is after the fall. And what ever any may conceive that re­mained in man of the Image of God after the fall, that could not have any povver to convince man of evil, or enable him to doe any thing that is good, if it were not visited and influenced a new from the foun­tain of Light and Life, but it would remaine as a thing without all Life and vertue, as a candle extinguished. For by the fall, the lamb, the witnes came to be slaine and remained so, until the Spirit of life a­gaine was sent from God into it, to give it life and power, to witnes a­gainst mens transgressions: for a witnes that is wholly dead, cannot witnes unto particular things of fact, against men, as this inward wit­nes in all men doth, who doe not againe crucifi [...] it in themselves. And seing Christ tasted death for every man, and the grace that brings sal­vation, hath appeared to every man, and the Gospel is preached in every creature, as it is according to the Greek, in Hebr. 2. Tit. 2. Col. 1. 23. It is manifest, that the illumination given to every man, is a new and fresh visitation of Gods love in Christ freely given, unto them for salvation.

Now as to the word Nature, if it be rightly understood there shall be no great difference about it. For if by Nature thou understandest the Nature that is corrupt and fallen, and that which simply is derived from Adam, then wee deny, that, that Nature can claime any right to this Light, or that it can be said to proceed, from that Nature. But if thou understandest by nature, the nature, that is spiritual and heavenly, and is derived from Christ, the second Adam, the quickning Spirit, the Lord from Heaven, then I say the Light may properly be called the Light of that Nature, in which sense, is to be un­derstood, that place of the Apostle, Rom. 2. v. 14. cited by thee, where hee sayeth, The Gentiles which have not the Law did by nature the things contained in the Law. For who will be so grosse, as to say that the Gentiles by the corrupt Nature could doe the things contained in the Law, which is pure and Holy? But by that Nature, which is one with the Law, towit, divine and heavenly, they might doe them. So that thou canst not, but still be accounted, a wilful enemy to the Light, whilest thou opposest it, and dost not turne to it, and by it, come to see the evil of thy wayes, and forsake them.

[Page 24] Pag. 12. Though it [...]e here asserted, in name of the Quakers, that the Scriptures are of excellent, and blessed use, yet thou wilt not be­leeve it, and alledgest, they will not make the due, use of them, for these Reasons. First Because a Bible thou sayest, Is not to be seene in all our meetings: But that will inferre nothing at all, for wee meet not to read the Scripture, but to wait on the Lord, and be taught of him, and receive from his Spirit, what hee pleaseth to administer, either in our selvs, or through the mouthes of his servants; & wee meet to Worship God, whos worship is to be performed in Spirit and in truth, and not in externall reading. Thou sayest Christ tooke the book of the pro­phet I saiah and read out of it: But was not this, the performance of a legal duty, and in condescendence to the Iewes manner? for it was in the synagogue, but did he ever coustitute it, as a part of the Christian worship; for one man to take the bible, and speak upon it, and all the rest to be excluded from speaking, while hee pratles, his owne barren empty notions about it? shew me where that was the practise, or order among the Apostles and primitive Christians: In the churches way 1. Cor. 14. there is no such thing, but on the contrary vers. 29. let the Prophets speake two or three, and let the other judge, if any thing be re­vealed to another that sits by, let the first hold his peace for yee many all prophecy, one by one, that all may learne, and all may be comforted. By which it plain­ly appears there was no such setled custome among them, but it is one of the maine inventions brought in, in the Apostacy, wherby barrennes and drynes hath entred and wherby the quickning unlimited life has beene stopped from flowing through many vessels. It is true the Apostles at times cited Scriptures out of the law, and the Prophets, to shew their fulfilling, or to open the mind of the Spirit concerning them, which is frequent is our meetings, to cite Scriptures, and open them in the same life and Spirit that gave them forth, in the order of the Spirit, but not in the order and way of mans wisdome and Spirit, as is your way, which savours more of Aristotles School, then of the Church of Christ. Secondly as to what thou sayest that it is not our way to encourage the People to read the Scriptures, and to try doctrines by them, 'tis utterly false, for wee desire that all may come to try doctrines even by the Scripture, but wee bid them also come to the light in them, to read and try doctrines, and understand the true sence of the Scrip­tures therein, and if People did so, wee know, that then your jug­juglings [Page 52] about them would be made manifest: but indeed wee are far from desi [...]ing People to heed your false Glosses and commentaries upon them, wherby yee darken them, rather then interpret them. Thirdly thou sayest, when you want an inward command to a duty I trow the [...] command of the Scripture is not regarded. Ans: here thou writest as one unacquainted vvith the Law and new Covenant vvritt in the heart; the inward command is never vvanting in the due season, to any duty, as it is vvaited for, and the outvvard testimony or signification of the command, vvee regard in its place. Is it not a regarding the outvvard to mind the inward unction and spirit, to vvhich it directs? vvhich invvard teacheth all things, and leadeth into all truth. 1. Ioh. 2. 27. 1. Cor 14. 15. Iohn. 16. 13▪ yea, doe not such more regard the outvvard, then they vvho under a pretence of an outward command doe run about these things in their ovvne natural will and Spirit, neglecting to vvait upon the Lord, for the leading and help of his Spirit. Thy comparing us to servants, who will not be moved to work, by their masters letter, &c. is vaine and riduculous nor doth it reach us, for our Masters letter is vvritt in our hearts, and ther wee ar to find it, neither is our Master separated from us, as those Masters are, vvho use to vvrite letters to servants to set them on vvork, while they are absent, and cannot help them by their presence, for our Master is alvvayes vvith us, and hee requires us to doe all our vvorks by his imediate counsell, direction, and assistence, as present vvith us, and in us. And that nature vvee vvitnes brought forth in us, vvhich does not shift his vvill, but delight in it, to doe it, and knovv it, vvhether told us by a lively voice, or by any other invvard signifi­fication of his Spirit. Fourthly, and becaus thou art ignorant of that great duty, of wayting upon the Lord, in silence, out of all thy ovvne thoughts and words, and art trampling it under foot, thou lookest, upon it, as mispent time or a meer looking upon the ground; vvhereas if ever thou comest to knovv the Scriptures a right, or to confer a right, concerning them so as to proffit, thou must first come to that silence, thou novv so much despisest. So that these things very vvell consist, though the vvorld may judge othervvayes, vvhom thou vvilt have to be judges in the case▪ but in the judgement of those vvho are redeemed out of the vvorld, vvee shall be found to put the scriptures in their true place.

[Page 26] Thou canst not but smile, thou sayest, that a man of understanding, should grant the Scriptures to be a declaration of Gods mind, and yet deny them to be Gods VVord, for what is a VVord but a declaration of ones, mind.

Ansvv. Here thy lightnes appears, vvhich darkens thy understan­ding: if thou must needs smile, doe it, at thy impertinent reason, for though a mans VVord, be the declaration of his mind, yet every declaration of his mind, is not his word: for signes may be a declaration of a mans mind, without his word, and people usually distinguish betwixt a mans VVord, and his writ. And so though the scripture be a declaration of Gods mind, yet it is not his VVord, properly nor can those properties which are declared of the VVord, belong to the scrip­tures, as hath oft beene demonstrated, but to that inward and living VVord, as it doth declare it selfe whether in the heart, or in the mouth. The VVord of God is like unto himselfe, spirituall, yea Spirit and life, and therefore cannot be heard, or read, with the natural externall senses, as the Scriptures can, nor does the Scriptures cited by thee, as Hosea. 1. 1. Ioel. 1. 1. Isaiah. 38. 4. Ieremiah. 14. 1. prove thy intent. For that VVord, vvhich came unto the Prophets, vvas that from vvhich the scriptures vver given forth, vvhich VVord you confesse vvas immediate from God, but you say, it is ceased to come novv. And did not all the Prophets prophecie from Christ, the Word? Thou mightest ss vvell reason thus, that vvhen it is said, the Spirit of the Lord came upon such a one or to such a one, that therefore the scripture is the Spirit, and so deny all Spirit, but that vvhich, is the Scripture as some doe, in other Sects, calling the vvritings of the Apostles and Evangelists, the Spirit, and denying the necessity of any other thing, vvhich is abominable dece [...]pt, and vvresting of Scriture, and that the Prophets declaring their message said, thus saith the Lord, provs that vvhat God spake in them, and through them, as the living VVord declared it selfe, vvas the VVord of God, but not, the letter, or vvriting. And vvhereas thou sayest it is all one to say, the scripture saith, and God sayeth. Answer, by vvay of inference and collection, it may be said, they are one, becaus of their agreement, yet the living VVord and speech of God, is not the scripture, more then the sun beame, is the shadow [...]hough the one agrees vvith the other; every one that reads or hears the scriptures read, hears not God immediatly, now that vvhich God speaks to any, [Page 27] or in any, immediatly, that is only his VVord properly unto them. As they vvho only read my Letter, cannot be said, properly to hear me by VVord of mouth. Christ said to the jewes, yee have not heard his voice, though they heard the scriptures and though the Apostle us­eth some scriptures out of the old Testament, it prove not, hee had not the VVord of the Lord speaking them, immediatly in him, and to him. That scripture thou biddest remarke, 1 Thess. 2. 13. provs not thy intent neither: for the VVord, which they heard of the Apostles, was that living VVord, declaring it selfe, through the Apostles, which was answered by the same in them, who heard; they heard Christ of, in and through the Apostles, does it therefore follow, that Christ is the Scripture? And lastly, Mark. 7. 13. Servs thy purpose no more, then the rest: for the Pharisees in striking at the fift comman­dement, did conesquentially strike at the living inward VVord which gave it forth, as those who strucke at any of the Apostles struck at Christ, yet none of the Apostles was Christ as nether is the [...], as it is outwardly vvritt, to speak properly, the VVord of God. And truly the reason, why vvee may not call the Scriptures the VVord of God, (to speak properly) is that people may be directed to that in­vvard living VVord, for by their being so much called the VVord of God, they have beene putt in Christs stead, and have beene set up as an Idoll, in stead of that from whence they came, so that to avoid this hazard, vvee have putt them in their due place.

Pag. 14. To prove that it is the mind and VVill of God that the Scrip­tures should be the Rule thou citest Isay. 8. 20. To the Law, and to the testi­mony. &c. But it rests to be proved, that the Law, and testimony vvas not the inward Law, and that that Word, according to vvhich they vvere to speake, vvas not the inward VVord, vvhich is said to be in the heart. It is observable that to prove this thou bringest, Ioh. 7. 49. vvhere the Pharisees say, have any of the Rulers or Pharisees beleived in him, but this people that know not the law are accursed. This place sutes the matter very vvell, but makes much against thee. For the Pharisees here were crying up the outward Lavv, and the knowledge of it: averring that the ignorance of it caused the meane people to beleive in Christ. So doe yee novv; yee pretend to cry up the Law, and say, the ignorance of it occasions so many to leave you. And as they then were setting the Law above Christ, and covering themselves with [Page 28] a zeal for it, persecuting him, and reviling his followers as ignorants. So yee now, whilst yee are boasting of your great knowledge in the Law, and in the scripture; and your high esteeme of them, yee are despising, crucifying the same Christ in his spirituall appearance, and upbraiding his followers now, as th [...]y did then, as ignorants, and contemners of the Law. And as to Luk. 10. 26. how readest thou? This was spoke to one, that was a Lawyer, or interpreter of the Law, and relyed upon it, so Christ spoke this to check him, and beside, the dispensation of the Law; which this Lawyer was under, was dif­ferent from that of the Gospel, in this matter, as may appear Heb. 8. 10. Againe as for Christ, and his Apostles useing the Scriptures for convincing of their opposers; so doe wee, and yet this proves not, that either hee, or wee judge them to be the Rule wherby to try all things and Spirits, yea even the Spirt of God himselfe.

Pag. 15. Thou seemest to lay much stresse upon this, that it wer impossible for us to prove to a Iew, or a Turk that Iesus the Son of Mary, is in very deed the Christ, without the Scripture. But I Answer thee to that easily by what way wilt thou perswade a Turk to believe the Scriptures, or their t [...]stimony, but by the inward testimony of the spirit? Calvin after hee has said all that can be said, of outward wayes, at last concludes, the only certaine way to know it in deed, is by the testimony of the spirit. l. 1. c. 7. Sect. 4. of his Inst. & as to the course that Paul tooke, with the obsti­nate Jewes it was very commendable, becaus they said, they belei­ved the Scriptures, and seemed to esteeme them much, though they opposed the truth witnessed to in the Scriptures. so that it is evident that some great pretenders to the Scriptures, can make a cloak of them, to deny Christ himselfe as yee doe at this day. And though Paul tooke that course with the Iewes, yet wee see hee tooke no such course with the Athenians, to wh [...]m he cited no Scripture, nor endeavoured to per­swade them by it, but told them they were the off spring of God, and wished them to feel after him, who was not afar of from every one of them. thirdly sayest thou, the saints had recourse to the Scriptures, in the examina­tion of Doctrines. So have wee too, as befor has beene declared, but that will not prove the Scripture is the rule.

Pag. 16. Fourthly, thou sayest, wee ar commanded to search the Scrip­turs Iohn 5. 39. Answer. The words may be translated, you search the Scriptures, as Pasor, translateth them, But wee doe acknowledge, [Page 29] the Scriptures are to be searched, but are not to be rested in, which was the Iewes fault, who vvould not come to Christ to get life, think­ing to have eternal life in the Scriptures, vvhich Christ cheks them for: and that the Scriptures are profitable, for doctrine, correction, in­struction, vvee owne, (and are commended for their dignity, and authority) but they are thus profitable onely to such, as come to the Spirit, to guide and direct them, hovv to make use of them, else they may prove an occasion of stumbling, as they did to the Phari­sees: hence it is said that the man of God may be perfect, mark, the man of God, not every Man, novv no man can be truely called the man of God but hee that is led by the Spirit of God. Next thou vvouldst un­dertake to prove, that it is not the mind of God, that the Spirit within men should be the Rule, in which thou fallest very short, as appears, by saying, that Christ made use of the Scripture, to prove himselfe, &c: and not the light within. And did these Jewes receive him, who had the Scriptures, did they not reject him? and why? be­cause they hearkned not unto the inward voice and testimony of the Father, concerning him: and this was the testimony, which hee said was greater, then that of Iohn, though Iohn was the greatest of the Prophets, and those vvho beleeve had the witnesse in themselves. 1 Ioh. 5. 10. but to th [...] unbeleiving Iewes, hee said, yee have neither heard his voice, nor seene his shape.

Secondly: Thou sayest, there is an expresse command to try the Spirits. 1. Ioh. 4. 1. Answ. but is there any word, there of trying them, by the Scripture, Cannot the Spirits be tryed by the Spirit of God? or is there any better way to try them? How tryed Peter the spirit of Ananias and Saphirah? And is not the tryall and discerning of Spirits the priviledge of the Saints now? And how is it a pecu­liar priviledge to saints, unles it be done by the Spirit of God? For the Scriptures any can make use of, the Apostle Iohn, writing to the Saints, concerning seducers, points them, to the Anoin [...]ing, which remained in them, and did teach them all things, and by this they did know, all things, and consequently Spirits, 1. Iohn. 2. 20. 26. Thirdly, thou sayest, un­doubtedly, there are strong delusions, &c. Ans. there are so indeed. But was there any more strongly deluded, then the Pharisees? Yet how much did they lay claime to the Scriptures? how came they then to be deluded who wer so skilled, in the Scriptures? according to the [Page 30] letter of them? and the poor People, who were not so skilled, so rightly to hit the matter?

And as to thy question, what way, shall the delusion, be tryd, if you neglect the VVord of God, and look only within? Answ: As for the VVord of God, nor yet the Scriptures testimony wee neglect not, but what way, thinkest thou shall the delusion, be tryed? If you neglect the Spirit within? and look only upon the letter, and words vvithout you? if the Delusion be strong in the heart, will it not twine, and vvrest the Scriptures without, to cause the Scriptures to seeme for it? and suppose a man be deluded with a Spirit of delusion, what can help him, but God whose Spirit searcheth all the deepest things of Sathan, and can, and doth dscover them, to those, vvho love to be undeceived and are faithfull to God, in what they certainly know. And though the same deluding spirit, who deceived first, may deceive over againe, that makes nothing against the insufficiency of the Spirit, to discover, the delusion, but if a man be deceived either first, or againe he is to blame himself for his defect, in not being duely watch­full, and faithfull, in what is discovered to him of God tru­ly, and certainly; Consider the tendency of thy argument which strikes not only, at the certainty of the Saints faith now, from the Spirit within, and the assurance of knowledge, there from, but also strikes at the very certainty and assurance of all the Faith, and knowledge the holy Prophets, and men of God had, from the Spirit vvithin, when Seripture was not. Wee are in no greater hazzard to be deceived now, then they were then. You that set up the Scripture, as your only rule, the many sects of you, what jangling and contesting is among you, while one pleads for his sence, and another for his? which all proceeds from their wandring from the Spirit, that gave forth the Scriptures. And as to satisfying of others, wee refer & recom­mend them to the same Spirit in them, to receive their satisfaction from that, which only can, and will satisfy them, who wait for it in singlenes.

Pag. 18. And whereas thou sayest, the Saints, are led and guided by the Spirit, but it is according to the Scriptures. So say wee too, But it doth not therefore follow, that the Spirit hath so tyed and limited himselfe to the use of the scriptures, as alwayes to use them, in every particular step, of his guiding the Saints; the Spirit is free to use, or not use the scriptures, at his pleasure, and guideth the Saints in many particular steps of their life, for which, there is no particular scripture, either [Page 31] to approve, or disprove them in. As for the more sure VVord of Prophesy wee grant it is the rule, but deny, that that more sure VVord, is the Scrip­tures, but it is that VVord in the heart, from which the Scriptures came, and in, and by, which the Scriptures are to be interpreted; and is it not grosse blindnes & darknes, to say, the Scripture is more sure, then that VVord, light, life, and Spirit, from which they came? Had not the Scrip­tures all their sureness, from the inward testimony of the spirit? How then can they be more sure? Thy example of the Schoolmaster, & the coppy, servs not thy turne, for the Spirit is unto the Saints both their teacher, & their Coppy. And they need not goe forth, for a Coppy; & if they vvalk according to this, by looking upon it, & eying it, they shalbe good Schollers & Proficients, hee writes them, a living Coppy in their hearts, engraves it on fleshly tables whereas they who looke upon no other Cop­py, but the VVords without them, are those, who are ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Pag. 19. Thou askest, why wee disjoine the Spirit and the Scriptures? citing Isaiah 50. 21. Answ. Wee are not to disjoine, what the Lord put­teth together, somtimes the Spirit joineth, or concurreth, with the Scripture VVords and sometimes not, how many preach and pray, and read the Scriptures, and talke of them, without the joint concur­rence of the Spirit? Which wee say, they ought not to doe, the Scriptures should never be used to preach, and pray, &c. But in the concurrence, and assistance of the Spirit; for they are not of true use, to any without the Spirit, but yee disjoine them, who would have praying in the letter, and useing of it without the motion of the Spirit; to such the Scripture is indeed but a dead letter, and it is nowayes a reproach unto them, to be so called. Yea what are the best of men without the Spirit, but dead men? and this is not a reproach to them, but their Glory, so, nor is it to Scripture.

Thou sayest, they are said to be a killing letter, and this shewes, that they are not dead. Answ. A poor argument indeed! Can not dead things kill, if men feed upon them? If thou feedest upon sand, gravell, stones, shells will not these things kil thee though they be dead? And if thou feedst upon the letter, without thee, and not upon the life, thou canst not live; yea if one that lived, did depart from feeding upon the life, to feed upon the letter it would kill him. And as for that Scripture cited by thee, it makes very much against thee, to wit. [Page 32] Isaiah. 59. 21. For it is one thing for God to put VVords, into mens mouths, and far another, for men, to gather these VVords from that without and put them into their owne mouths; nor doth it say that the VVords, God shall put into their mouths shall be no other words, more or lesse, but the expresse scripture words; why art thou not ashamed to cite this scripture? doe yee not say, to speake as the infallible Spirit givs utterance, is ceased, a [...]d consequently, Gods putting VVords into the mouth, Gods furnishing them, with VVords, suggested from his owne Spirit and life? which the holy Prophets, and Apostles vvitnessed, to speake, as moved by the holy Ghost: doe yee not say, this is ceased? why then citest thou a scripture, which is so plaine and clear for it? but that thou art in blindnes and confusion Pag. 19. In thy procedure, upon the point of justification thou makest a large step, in that crooked path, of de­ceipt, wherein? Thou hadst too much traced from the beginning, but now more abundantly then ever, thou displayest the Banner of thy disingenuity, and gatherest all thy forces together, it should seeme, resolving to give the Quakers a finall, over throw; And to make the matter misty in the very entry of it, thou raisest Dust to thy self venting thy own filthy imaginations, under the no­tion of coming from them, applauding thy endeavours, as if thou wert studying to preserve pure, the principle of justification, in a point, where none is jumbling it, among us; as thou advancest a litle further Pag. 20. 21, having given a very scant account of their doctrine, in this matter, couching it in most disadvantagious terms, thou takest great liberty to extend thy selfe, in a foolish, and vaine excursion, as if, having fathomed the Quakers, thou hadst discovered them to be either turned, or turning rank Papists, there­fore to trace thee throughly in this matter, that if it be possible, thou maist come to have a discovery of thy Vanity and malice, or, though, thou shouldst prove irrecoverable, yet others may have a view of both; I shall first, in honesty and plainnes declare the principle of truth in this matter, thereby observing thy misrepresen­tations. Secondly shew what vast difference is betwixt us, and the Papists, therein.

And thirdly, make manifest, how much nearer of kin yee are to the Papists, even as to this particular, and the things relating there­unto [Page 33] then wee, which may serve, as a seasonable shower to allay that windy triumph, vvhich thou endeavourest to establish unto thy selfe. As to the first, vvee are justified by Christ Jesus, both as hee appear­ed, and was made manifest, in the flesh, at Ierusalem, and also as hee is made manifest, and revealed in us; and thus, wee doe not di­vide Christ, nor his righteousnes, without, from his righteousnes within, but wee doe receive and embrace him, wholly and undivi­ded, THE LORD OVR RIGHTEOVSNES. Ieremiah. 23. 6. 1. 30. By which wee are both made and accounted righteous in the sight of God and which ought not, nor cannot be divided. And the manner and way, wherby his righteousnes, and obedience death and sufferings without, become profitable unto us and is made onrs, is, by receiving him, and becoming one with him, in our hearts, embraceing and entertaining that holy seed, which as it is embraced and entertained, becometh a holy birth in us, which in Scripture is called, Christ formed within; Christ within the hope of glory. Gal. 4. 19. Coloss. 1. 27. By which the body of sin and death is done a­way, and wee cleansed, and washed, and purged, from our sins, not imaginarily, but really; and we really, and truly made righ­teous, and holy, and pure in the sight of God, which righteousnes is properly enough said to be the righteousnes of Christ, for it is immedi­atly from him, and stands in him, and is as unseparable from him, as the beams are from the sun, and it is, through the union, be­twixt him, and us, (his righteous life and nature brought forth in us, and wee made one with it as the branches are with the vine) that wee have a true Title, and right to what hee hath done and suffered for us, for, being so closely united to Christ, his righteousnes beco­meth ours, his obedience ours, his death, and suffrings, ours: thus wee know hiw and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his suffrings, being made conformable to his death, Philip. 3. 10. By which nearnes, and fellowship, wee come to know, an unity with the suffring seed, both in our selves, and others, and therein to travell, for its raising, and deliverance; which yet no wayes derogats from the worth of the sacrifice, hee offred up unto God, without the ga­tes of Jerusalem, while hee humbled himselfe unto death, even unto the death of the crosse, tasting death, for every man. This is an honest, and plaine, and true account of our beleife in this matter, and is in substance one, and the same, with that, which [Page 34] at sundry tymes, thou and thy brethren, hast received from us; not­withstanding the bare, scanty, and disingenuous account thou givest of us in this matter. Secondly, As to the vast difference, that lyeth betwixt us and the Papists, any who are not willfully blind, may see it, who know their Doctrine, and ours, in this thing.

It is not the works, of Christ wrought in us, nor the works which wee work, in his Spirit, and power; that wee rest and relye upon, as the Ground and foundation, of our justification; but it is Christ himselfe, the worker, revealed in us, indwelling in us, his life, and Spirit covering us, that is the Ground of our justification, and wee feeling our selvs in him, feeling him in us, and his Spirit, his life covering us, wee feel our justification and peace with God in him, and through him, the alone Mediatour betwixt God, and Man. Now, this manner of justification by the indwelling of Christ, in the Saints, and of his Spirit, is not held by the Papists, but is expressly denied by them, and disputed against, particularly by Bellarmine. And Christ Iesus himselfe is both first and last our justification and foundation of it; and as to being justified by works, the Scripture is plaine for it, and so wee may not deny it, but plead for it, according to the true sence and mind of the Spirit, as wee are taught of him. But to be justified by him, is more then to be justified by works, and therefore are wee justified in our works; which wee work in him, because, wee are in him, and work them in him, and because the Lord ac­cepteth and justifieth us, in him; therefore hee accepteth and justifieth, our works, wrought in him, and accepteth and justifieth, us, in relation to these works; and though it hath beene said, by us, that Good works, which are wrought in Christ, and are rather his, then ours, are meritorious, yet wee understand it not any other­wayes, then thus; that all their Merit, or worth is from Christ, and seing they are said in Scripture to have their reward; and Reward, and Merit, are relative terms, inferring one another, in that sen­ce, wherin they are said to be rewarded, they may also be said to be meritorious; which yet hinders not, the freedome of Gods grace in justification, for wee doe verily beleive, and confesse; that both the VVorks and the Reward, are of the free grace of God, and that the Lord giveth us all things, not of Debt, or as being in our Debt, but of free gift and his infinite goodnes and VVisdome hath seene it meet to [Page 35] promise a Reward to good works; and so hee doth reward them, becaus of his goodnes, and faithfulnes, and not because he is addebted unto any of us, otherwise then as hee hath bound himselfe by his promise, And this is contrary to that [...]alse Popish Doctrine, which affirms, that men deserve a Reward from God, for good works, upon the account of strict justice, without respect to the Promise. And if it be answered, that all Papists doe not say so, but are more mode­rate, well then, I say If some of them be moderate, and passe from the erronious opinion of Popery, and speake that which is true, if others speake what is true also, in that particular, should the truth, be accused, and condemned for ranck Popery, because, some Papists at times confesse to it. You your selvs know, that Papists contra­dict one another in divers things, and where men directly contra­dict one another, one of the sides, must speake true; But as to that, wherin the justification stands, and on which it is grounded, to wit, Christ himselfe as in dwelling in the Saints, none of all the Pa­pists, for ought wee ever heard, or read, doe owne it, but are a­gainst it. Againe as to the works by vvhich the Papists seeke to be justified they are such, as vve beleive, none can be justified by viz. their outward observations, their invocation of Saints, bovving to ima­ges, saying Ave maries, telling their Beads, their Pilgrimages, their whipping themselvs, their keeping Lent, and many other such like works of voluntary humility, by which they seeke to be justified, though they are evill vvorks, as not done in the faith, and povver of God: nor does it serve thy turne to say, that Papists think not that vvorks considered as evill and sinfull, are sufficient to justify them, for that is not the question vvhether the Papists think to be justified by vvorks sinfull and evill, but this is the Question, vvhether the Pa­pists think to be justified by VVorks, vvhich are really sinfull and evill, (hovvever they may imagine them to be good) and herein I say, vvee differ vastly from Papists, they think and seek to be justified by such VVorks, as are evill, in the sight of God, vvhereas vvee beleive that by no such vvorks can any man be justified. Other vveighty dif­ferences cold be shevved, in relation to this matter, but vvhat is here in short declared, may suffice to evince, that vvee differ vvidely from the Papists, concerning justification.

[Page 36] Thirdly looke hovv near a kin, yee are to Papists, as in many other things, So in these, relating to justification. First doe yee not say, that yee are not justified by Christ in dvvelling in you? so say the Papists. Secondly, Doe yee not say, that the vvay to attaine to a state of justification, is not by beleiving in the VVord of faith, vvhich is in every man, and in the Light, vvhere vvith Christ has enlightned eve­ry man, that coms into the vvorld? And so say the Papists: vvho though they talk of universall Grace, yet they deny that this Vniversall Grace, is an Evangelicall principle of Light; by beleiving in which, men can attaine unto a state of justification immediatly. 3. Doe yee not say that Gods act of justification is not an immediat testimony of his Spirit, declaring or pronouncing men righteous? And so say the Papists. 4. Doe yee not say, that men are not to know their justification, or that they are in a justified state, by an immediate testimony of the Spirit, in them by vvay of object, for this vvere to assert immediate revelation? so doe the Papists. So by these fevv. instances given here and by many other instances given by others, in other particulars try your selvs, and first clear your selvs, of Popery, before you, or thou doest throvv it upon us.

Now wher as thou alledgest, that the Apostle in the matter of justifica­tion, excluds all works, even those of Christ his working in the Saints, and which they work in him, 'Tis falfe, nor doe the Scriptures cited by thee, prove thy intent, as Rom. 3. 20, gal. 2. 16. Tit. 3. 5. thou sayest, the Apostle speaks of works in generall without any limitation. But herein thou contradictest the very expresse Scriptures cited by thee, for all these Scriptures speake of works, with a limitation, as Rom. 3. 20, by the deeds of the law, there shall no fllesh be justified, and Gal. 2. 16. knowing that a man is not justified, by the works of the law, here, the works of the law are excluded, but not the works of Christinus, which are not of the law; for the law or first Covenant was weak, and gave not strength, to them, who wer under it, to fulfill righteousnes, but these who were in Christ Iesus, witnessed the righteousnes of the law fulfilled in them, who walked not after the flesh, but after the spirit. And as for that other Scripture Tit. 3. 5. though it exclude works of mens doing, as of themselves yet it excluds not all works, nor in­ward righteousnes of Christ, but expressely includs it, according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the holy [Page 37] holy Ghost; thou cauldest not have brought a more plaine proof against thy selfe; for thou citest this Scripture as holding forth justification. Now the Apostle sayeth, he saved us according to his mercy by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the holy Ghost, and is not the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the holy Ghost, a vvork, which comprehends many particular works, of the Spirit of Christ, in the Saints? And is not regeneration, and the renewing of the holy Ghost, a righteousnes wrought in us? How is it then, that thou art not ashamed to charge us, with rank Popery, for saying, wee are justified by a righteousnes wrought in us, seeing the very Scripture cited by thee is expresly for it? May wee not pertinently re­turne these words upon thee, which thou misappliest to us, Oh, tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the Streets of Askelon, &c. That a man, who pretends to teach others aright, in the matter of justifica­tion, hath so confounded himselfe, that to prove that justification is not by a righteousnes wrought vvithin, bring a Scripture, which speaks expresly of a righteousnes vvithin, to wit, that of regeneration and renovation by which wee are saved. And if any should say the vvords doe not say, vve are justified by the vvashing of regeneration and renevving of the holy Ghost; but vvee are saved therby, as inten­ding sanctification, and not justification: I answer, This helps not, the Author out of the ditch, for he brings this Scripture forth applying it to the matter of justification: But againe, if these vvords, ex­clude all works generally, and vvithout any limitation, then they ex­clude, all works, vvhich are vvrought by the Spirit of Christ, from sanctification, as if men, vvere sanctified by no vvorks of the Spirit of Christ within them; or if it be said, that vvorks of our ovvne doing, selfe-righteousnes, are only excluded, from having place in our sanc­tification, but not the vvorks, vvrought in, and by the Spirit of Christ; then I say, vvhy may not the same distinction, have place in all these other Scriptures, vvhich say, vvee are not justified by vvorks, &c. and indeed in all these Scriptures, it holds true no lesse concerning sanctification, then concerning justification. As thus, by the deeds of the Law, there shall no flesh, be sanctified, knovving, that a man is not sanctified by the works of the Law, &c. but it vvere vaine to infer from this that men at Sanctified, by no vvorks of righteousnes, wrought in them, by the Spirit of Christ therefore it is as vaine to infer that [Page 38] men are justified by no vvorks of righteousnes, wrought in them, by his Spirit.

Pag 22. Thou sayest, wee can shift of popery with this, that they are not our good works, which deserve and merit justification, but the good works of Christs working in us. yea I say, wee doe justly cast of the accusa­tion of Popery, as having the expresse testimony of Scripture, that wee are justified by works, to wit, such as are wrought in Christ, and by him in us, Iames. 2. 24. you see then, that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only, compared with Tit. 3. 5. before-mentioned and as for the Papists works, by which they seeke to be justified, wee doe not acknowledge them to be such works, as whereby or wherein any can be justified.

And vvhereas thou pleadest, that the good vvorks of Christs vvorking in us, are ours, citing Isai. 26. 12. Matth. 5. 16. &c. Wee grant it, but they are not ours in that signification, as vvhere it is said, hee that is entred into his rest hath ceased from his owne works, Hebr. 4. 10. There are works, which are so ours, that they are not, the works of the sanctifiing renevving Spirit of Christ in us, and such are works both of open unrighteousnes and of selfe fained righteous­nes, vvhich has no better root to bring them forth, then mans ovvne will and Spirit, and by such vvorks, vvee deny to be justified, yea vve deny all such vvorks, and the justification by them, and de­sire to stand in a continual denyal, unto them, and forbearance from them: But againe, there are such vvorks, vvhich are so ours, that they are Christs also, vvho vvorks them in us, and by us, and are ours by his free grace, and by such works, vvee affirme men are justified.

Pag. 23. Thou pleadest, That men cannot be justified by any works of Christs working in them, because they are imperfect. And for their im­perfection, thou instancest, 1. Faith; becaus it is said, O yee of litle faith, why doubt yee. Answ. By this thou mayst as well exclude faith, from justification, every way, as vvorks, if it vvere granted, that their faith vvas imperfect; but that Scripture, nor no other, speaks not of imperfect faith, but of little faith. Novv little Faith is perfect in the measure of it, as a little Gold is perfect Gold. And though the Disciples, had doubting, yet the faith, vvas not the doubting, nor vvas it made impure by it, for the least measure of true faith can never be [Page 39] defiled, othervvise it could not purify the heart, it is like the fire, vvhich cannot be defiled, vvith the impurities of those things, it vvorks upon: And as for the Disciples, at that time, as they vvere­in part, justified, or approved by the Lord, in relation to their faith, so were they reproved, and not justified of him, in relation, unto, or becaus of their doubting. But this Scripture, nor none other, provs not, that faith was, or is alwayes accompanied with doubting; Abraham beleived Gods promise, without doubting; and was strong in the faith, giving glory to God, and it was imputed to him for Righteousnes, Rom. 4. 20. 21. 22. And said James, His faith was perfected by works, Chap 2. 22. For that which is perfect in a lesse measure, can be further perfected in a greater. Secondly, Thou pleadest that know­ledge is imperfect, becaus the Apostle saith, VVe know, but in part, 1 Cor. 13. 9, But the Apostle does not say, our knovvledge is im­perfect, or impure: Wee may knovv a thing in part, and yet that vvhich vvee knovv of it, vvee may knovv perfectly. Thirdly, Thou pleadest for the imperfection and uncleannes of the Saints obedience, from Eccles. 7. But that place is not to be understood, concerning all men in all states and times. There is an earthly unrenewed state and while men are here, there is not a just man among them, as Rom. 3. ver. 10. There is none righteous, no not one, and there is a heavenly re­newed state, wherein a Man is borne of God, and sinneth not, Ioh, 3. ver. 9. And said the Apostle, Let no Man deceive you, hee that doth righteousnes is righteous; which imports that there are righteous Men, who doe good; and said the Lord to the Servants that used their ta­lents, VVel done, good, and faithful Servant, Matth. 25. ver. 21. 23. And that other Scripture, thou citest Isai. 64. 6. Servs nothing thy turne: For the Prophet sayeth not, all our righteousnes, which is of thy working, in us, vvho are Saints, is as filthy rags, but all our righteousnes, vvhich vvee, even the best of the Saints, can performe, of, and from themselves, are as filthy rags, mans best works, his best righteousnes, which is of, and from himselfe, is filthines, and unrighteousnes before God; and hee is to cease from all his ovvne works, Hebr. 4. ver. 10. And it is plaine that vvhen the Prophet in that place sayeth, VVee are all as uncleane, and there is none, that calleth upon thy name he does understand the multitude of the Je­vves, vvho generally vvere a carnal People, and relyed upon their out­vvard observations, and did not Worship God, in Spirit, and in [Page 40] but did not understand it of all, and every one, among them; for hee himselfe did call upon his Name; and that, the Saints vvere vvashed, and cleansed, see 1. Cor. 6. 11. But yee are walked, are sanctified, are justified, in the Name of the Lord Iesus, and by the Spi­rit of our God. And Ioh. 15. 3. Now yee are cleane, through the word, which I have spoken to you. And Ezeki [...]l 37. 33. At which time I shall cleanse you, from all our iniquities, I shall also cause the cities to be inhabited. Which imports a tyme upon earth, vvherein they should be made cleane, from all their iniquities. And hovv art not thou, and you ashamed to affirme, that the best vvorks of the Spirit of Christ in his Saints, are as a filthy rag? Does not the Apostle say, that a meek and quiet Spirit is an ornament, which is of a great price, even in the sight of God; hovv then can it be, a filthy, or menstruous rag? A filthy and menstruous rag, is good for nothing, but must be throwne avvay, upon all accounts, and if that holynes, and righteousnes and meeknes, vvhich is of Christ his vvorking in men, be as filthy rags, then according to your doctrine, men should throvv them a­vvay, as being not only unprofitable to justification, b [...]t to any other use, yea a filthy and menstruous rag, men doe hide from the sight of another, and doe never vvear it as an Ornament vvhereas the Saints put on the meeke, and quiet, and sober, and righteous Spi­rit, as an Ornament, of great price, not only in the sight of the Saints, but even in the sight of God.

Pag. 24. Thou pleadst, though that the good works of Christ in the Saints, are defiled & imperfect because the Saints who are subservient, & in­strumentall in them, are uncleane, and who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane? Iob. 14. 4. Answ. It is granted that the Saints are subordinate co workers with Christ but yet it follows not, that his works in them, aud by them, are defiled, and though it be said, who can bring a cleane thing, out of an uncleane, this hinders not, but that the Lord, can, and doth make Cleane, those▪ who have beene uncleane, and so out of them, who are made cleane, bring forth, cleane things. And though, every one, in whom the work of sanctification is begun, be not wholly cleansed, but that there may be an uncleane part in them, for a time, yet there is also a cleane part in them; who are in the least measure sanctified, and so these who work with the Spirit of Christ; work with him, according to this [Page 41] cleane part, and it is the cleane part in them, which hee maketh use of, as his instrument; and as for the uncleane part, it is not to worke vvith Christ, but to be chained dovvne, and fettered, and bound up from working, to the end it may be vvrought upon, that it may be cleansed, and thus by degrees, the cleane part encreaseth, and the uncleane is diminished, till all the uncleannes be vvrought out, and vvher the uncleane part, is let loose to vvork, the pure Spi­rit of Christ, doth never joine in vvorking with it, but judgeth, and reproveth it, and therefore, in so far, as the uncleane part vvorketh in any, that man, in whom it worketh is not throughly justified, and approved by the Lord, but there are who vvitnes the cleansing from all the uncleannes; and so, as cleane vessels, and instruments throughout, bring forth cleane things, cleane works.

The example, hovv that cleane water passing through an uncleane pipe, receivs a tincture of uncleannes, hits not the case: For the Spiritual VVater, is not, like the common grosse outvvard VVater, vvhich, an uncleane pipe can defile, but like the fire, and the light vvhich though it touch uncleane things cannot be defiled by them: Every thing of the Spirit, is undefilable, as the Spirit is, vvhich no un­cleane thing can defile. And if thou vvert vvel skilled in the outvvard creation, thou mightst find an outward water, so pure that passing through an uncleane pype shall not be defiled vvith it; but if thou knovvest not, these earthly things, and beleivest them not, as Christ said, Ioh. 3. 12. How shalt thou believe, if vve tell thee heavenly things.

Pag. 25. Thou chargest us, VVith erring grievously in confounding justification and sanctification. Answ. Justification is either taken, for God his adjudging a man, unto eternal Life, and in that sence it is not to be confounded vvith Sanctification, yet it is not be separated there from, for God adjudgeth no man, but the sanctified unto eternal life, or happines; or it is taken, for the making a man righteous, and then it is all one, vvith Sanctification: And that thou sayest the vvord is most frequently used in Scripture, in that sence of adjudging, being opposed to condemnation; doth imply, thou hast not the confidence to assert, that it is alwayes so used as indeed it is not.

And wheras thou citest Philip. 3. 9. to prove, that the choisest Saints upon earth have disclaimed all righteousnes, wrought in them, by which they [Page 42] chould be justified; I say, that Scripture provs no such thing, and thy observation to prove it, is insufficient; to wit, that the Apostle doth not speake of his righteousnes, whilest he was a Pharisee, for that he dis­owned, ver. 6. 7. for admitting it, yet hee was still to deny and dis­owne the work, and righteousnes, which could proceed from his owne will, and Spirit; even all the willings, and runnings which can arise from a mans selfe though he be a Saint, without the immediate operation of the Spirit of Christ, the Saints have this to watch against, to keep downe the active and working selfe-will and stop it from wor­king the selfe-righteousnes, which if it be not watched against, and stood against, will fall a working its righteousnes, which God ac­cepts not, as being but the bare righteousnes of man, and this is that righteousnes, which Paul denyed to have, which hee even cal­leth the righteousnes of the Law, but this, ( which is of the Law,) thou cunningly omittest, (becaus it made against thee,) it seems. Now what that righteousnes of God, through faith, was, which hee desires to have, hee plainly expresseth, ver. 10. that he might know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, in being made conforme unto his death.

Now, is not the knowledge of him, and the power of his resurrec­tion, a work of the Spirit of Christ in the Saints by which, they are justified? according to that; by his knowledge, shall my righteous ser­vant justifie many: and is not the fellowship of his suffering, or the suffering with him, a work of his Spirit? & Lastly, is not the conformity unto his death, a work of his Spirit in the Saint, comprehending the whole work of mortification?

Pag. 26 Thy last argument, from 2. Cor. 5. 21, is most absurd and impious, for accordingly, it would follow, that as Christ was made sin for us, or suffred for our sins, who himselfe had no sin, no not in the least; So wee may be made righteous before God, though wee have no righteousnes, no holines, no faith, no repentance, no mortification, no good thing wrought in us. And doth not this strengthen, the wicked, ungodly and profane in their presumption, to have title to Christ his righteousnes? And so to returne thy misapplied instance in another case, Suppose some of the profane, who plead a right to Christs righ­teousnes, having lost some of their number, should happen to hear thee disputing against all good works, as being profitable to justifi­cation, [Page 43] might they not say concerning thee, and thy brethren, who teach such doctrine, wee have not only gott the lost sheep, but the lost shepherds and the cheifest of them too, on our side, let us rejoice, wee have found them? Wee find, the Apostle maks a farr better inference from Christ his dying for us, 2. cor. 6. 15. he died for all, that they who live might not any longer live to themselves, but to God; yea and every where hee holdeth forth inward holiness and righteous, as that without which no man, can lay claime to Christ; if any man be in Christ hee is a new creature, but he doth not say, God reputes him a new creature, though hee be not really renewed. And though it be said that wee are made righteous in him, this hinders not, as thou vainly inferrest, that wee are not made righteousnes, by an inward righteousnes; for hee is in the Saints aud fulfills the righteousnes of the Law in them; that the righteousnes of the law might be fulfilled in us, Rom. 8. 4. Therefore that 2. Cor. 5. 21. is thus to be understood, that Iesus Christ, who knew so sin, was made to be sin for us, that is suffered for our sins, that wee who had really sinned, and so deserved wrath, might partake of the love and grace by him, and through the workings thereof, be made the righteousnes of God in him for that the Apostle understood here, a really being made righteous, and not a being esteemed or held as righteous, while indeed impure, is very evident, by the whole following chapter, but especially towards the end, what fellowship hath righteousnes with unrighteousnes, wherefore come out from among them, touch not the [...]uncleane [...]hing, be yee separate, and I will receive you, and yee shall be unto me, for sons, and daughters.

Now to be received of the Lord, is to be justified of him, and here wee see plainly, that in order thereunto, there is required a righteousnes, by which, they must be separated from the evill and uncleane, and must not touch it.

And whereas thou sayest, that the holiest actions of the Saints, becaus of the sinfulnes of these actions deserve condemnation. I aske thee, whither did the Apostles sin in writing the Scriptures, in preaching Christ, and gathering the Churches? Whither their being the instruments made these things sinfull, which were done, not only by the command, but by the power, and vertue of Christ in them? and seing thou canst­not deny, but the Scriptures (called by thee the word of God) were brought forth by the holy Spirit, in the holy men of God, and did flow▪ [Page 44] as waters, from the Spirit of God, which gave them forth, through the very first penmen of them, becaus of the uncleannes, wich thou supposest to have been in them? If thou sayest Nay, thou contradictest thy former instance of cleane water, receiving a tinc­ture of uncleannes from the uncleane pipe, through which it passeth if thou sayst yea to wit, that the Scriptures were defiled, and corru­pted, by the penmen of them, I leave it to all of any sound judgement; whither you, or wee, be most esteemers of the Scriptures, wee, who say, they wer pure words as gold, without any tincture of un­cleannes, or corruption, as they came forth, from the Spirit of God through the penmen of them, or you, if you say, that they were defiled with the uncleannes of the men, through which they were given forth, hee who has any true understanding let him judge, concerning these things.

Pag. 26. Thou blamest it as an unsutable thing for a Quaker to say that that people to whom hee is joined, are the most Christ-like Christians this day upon the earth; and yet will any of you, say lesse of your way? for if yours be not the best way, why doe yee plead so much for it? Why doe yee preach it up? Why doe yee study to draw people to it, and complaine of those who have left it? Now is not a good Principle, a ready way to lead people to good practises? And are not these who are in the right way, of the flock of Christ? And is not Christs flock, like unto him? Can it therefore be an unsutable thing for one who supposeth himselfe to be of Christs flock, to say, the flock with whom hee is, is likest to Christ? Will any of you say lesse, except yee grant your selves not to be of Christ's flock? Wee ar not the most Christ-like people, sayest thou, by what wee out­wardly appear; becaus the Monks and Hermits therein excell us: nor yet by what wee inwardly feele, becaus others different from us, have felt as much. As to the first, thou hast shewed thy ignorance of the very appearance of Christiantiy: for the appearance of Christianity, is not in fleeing the Society of men, or retireing the outward man, making Vo­wes of voluntary poverty; for any one, that hath the least knowledge in true mortification, may know, that wher a mans meat, and provi­sion is laid up for him, and that there is no care of these things lying upon the mind, but a full liberty to live in idlenes ( which is the Monks case) it is an easie thing in selfe-vvill to take on, a demure deporte­ment, [Page 45] or to wear haircloath or goe barefoot; vvhich by custome be­coms familiar. And truly many of the Commons in Scotland, are used to greater hardships, then all that, and yet are far from having the appearance of Christianity, But the matter is, for people to be conver­sant in this VVorld, to have their occasions, and businesse in it, and to have dealing vvith the Spirit of it, and yet to keep to the, meek, low­ly, simple appearance, using it, as if they vvere not using it, by kee­ping out of its Spirit, and VVay, in all manner of Conversation. This is to be like unto Christ, vvho did not retire himselfe unto a Hermits lodge, but conversed among Publicans, and sinners. Novv let your flocks, and the Quakers, be compared together in this particular, and let the light in all consciences judge, vvho are likest to Christ. Second­ly, to evidence, that some different from us, have had as much inward feeling, thou sayest, thou canst tell us of some, who have had so much of the feare and dread of God, upon their hearts, that they durst not adventure upon sin, by this thou seemest to grant, that there are invvard feelings and enjoyments among the, Quakers, saying, what good is it that you truely feell, that persons different from you have not felt? And hovv doeth this consist, vvith your judging the Quakers fallen into Apostacy, and delusion, of the devill? And that they are pos­sessed vvith the divell? can such have invvard feelings and enjoy­ments of God? for my part I am glad to hear, that any such have beene, vvho have had so much of the fear and dread of God upon their hearts, that they durst not adventure upon sin, and I should be glad, and so I knovv vvould any of the Quakers be glad to meete vvith them; But novv such vvho have so much of the fear of God upon their hearts, that they durst not adventure upon sin, vvold they not love to be perfect? vvould they dispute against perfection, and conclude it impossible? vvould such, vvho dare not sin for a vvorld, sin every day, yea every moment, as you say, yee doe? if they dare not sin, vvould they not refrainse from sin, and cease from it? and vvould they make use of that poor evasion, vvhich thou addest, that therefore they vvould not vvillingly sin for a vvorld? As long, as the dread and fear of God remains, and stands over the heart, sin is shut out, and the minds vvill is to fear God, and not to Sin. Thou canst tell us of others, (thou sayest) who many years lived in the sweet sence of Gods favour, and have gone most triumphantly out of the world, with strong perswasions, of their eternal vvel-being.

[Page 46] But vvould such have pleaded for continuance in sin? Doeth not continuance in sin ecclipse, and take avvay, the sence of Gods favour? and further would such have denyed fellowship with God, by imme­diate revelation as you doe? Would they have denyed the immediate teachings of the Spirit as you doe? doe not some novv living remem­ber some of them vvho had these feelings, and did bear an expresse testimony to the immediate teachings of the Spirit, and immediat fellowship vvith God, and plainly declared that no preaching, was pro­fitable, but that vvhich came immediatly from the Spirit: and found fault vvith the Ministers, that they preached from their study, and their books, and vvished them to put avvay, or burne their books, for that they vvere a hurt to them; and some of those savv over and beyond, and unto the end o [...] your so called ordinance of outvvard bread & wine, & said plainly it vvas but a shaddovv, or figure, & that those vvho vvitnessed the substance, had no need of the other, & though those, and some others vvho vvitnessed such invvard feelings, and enjoyments of God vver not called Quakers, nor had their understan­dings so clearly opened as to many things, as the people called Qua­kers have: yet vvith the same life in some measure, they have beene acquainted, vvhich is the Quakers way even Iesus Christ, who is the way, the truth, and the life; and so as to those examples, thou givest, which vvas vvitnessed (thou sayest) some tvventie yeers agoe. Wee deny not but that the Lord did appear, and vvas near the simple hearted in that day, and some vvho are novv among the Qua­kers remember that day and have a share in those feellings, and enjoy­ments vvhich are novv, and in the experience and enjoyment of them can bear a true testimony, that the feellings and enjoyments of this day, unto those, vvho follovv the Lord, in his leadings, [...]oe far exceed vvhat vvas in that day: and novv the sun is set upon that day, for the Lord is calling his people further, and those among us vvho had those former feelings, can vvitnesse, that vvhile they vvould have b [...]ene tasting of that svveetnes, and remained still vvith you, the Lord vvould not; but suffered drynes, and barrennesse to come over them; and that which sometime had been as a fruitful field, to become a barren vvildernesse till they savv, that they vvere not to limit him, to invented forms, but were to forsake those things in his will, in which through his indulgence and compassion, hee had sometimes appeared, unto them, and to be found follovving the [Page 47] footsteps of the flock vvhom hee is leading on to a further state; in which they find the Lord appearing more gloriously then ever to their refreshment: Glory to him for evermore. But with you it is other­wise, for who among you witnesse these things at this day? Yea some of you are so ingenuous, as to confesse that yee find not these things now; and that this is a cloudy, and gloomy day, and it shall certainly so continue unto you: until yee come, and walk with us, in the Light of the Lord: But becaus yee will not, but will confine the Lord, in these forms, whereunto yee have devoted your selvs, there­fore is darknes over you, and your Prayers are become dry, and barren, and full of complaints of an absent God. And what invvard joy from God, any have felt among you, we cannot impute it to your way; more then, what some have felt of refreshment in some other pro­fessions, and forms can be imputed to their way.

Pag. 30. Thou sayest, It is knowne that wee are enemies to singing of Psalms, Baptisme, and the Lords Supper, and becaus wee say, that wee are not against these things, therfore thou callest us, disinge­nuous, or such, as seek to delude People; which challenge is false, and a calumnie, for wee doe indeed owne these things, in the true ac­ceptation, and meaning of them, and in the substance and reality, and if wee doe so, are wee disingenuous, and deceitful, becaus wee deny them in your acceptation, vvhich only comprehends the sha­dow, that passeth away? If Baptisme, which is really and truly the Baptisme of Christ, wee owne, and participation of the Body, and Blood of Christ, which is really so, I say, if these things be really owned by us▪ as they are indeed, can wee be said to deny them, becaus wee use not the shadow, as yee doe while yee are ignorant of, and strangers to the substance? Nay it may be re­torted much more properly, and without deceipt upon your selves, that yee do but pretendedly, in VVords, owne these things while indeed yee deny them? so that herein yee are found to be the Equi­vocators, who are contending for the husk, and will needs have it accounted the kernell: and there can be no errour more dangerous, then to place the shadow, for the substance; for suchas so doe are those that trample upon the precious ordinances of Iesus Christ, in which the work of grace is begun and increased.

[Page 48] Pag. 32. To prove thy assertions particularly, thou beginnest say­ing, that singing of Psalms is an ordinance of Iesus Christ; vvhereby if thou understandest that singing of Psalmes was used by the Saints, that it is a part of Gods VVorship vvhen performed in his will, and by his Spi­rit, and that yet it may be, and is vvarrantably performed among the Saints it is a thing denied by no Quaker, so called, and it is not unu­suall among them, wherof I have my selfe beene a witnesse, and have felt of the sweetnes, and quickning vertue of the Spirit therein, and at such occasions ministred. And that at times, Davids VVords may also be used as the Spirit leads thereunto, and as they sute the condition of the party, is acknowledged without dispute but that without the Spirit, in selfe-will, not regarding how the thing sutes their condition, for a mixt multitude to use and sing the expressions of blessed David, wee deny. For that was not the method, the Apostle spoke of 1. Cor. 14. 15. when hee said, I will sing with the Spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also, therfore though sin­ging of Psalms, in the true use of them, be allowable, yet as used by you, it is abominable; and is a mock worship, becaus yee cannot deny, but that the persons using it, are a mixed multitude, knowne to be Drunkards, Swearers, VVhoremongers, &c. Now such cannot praise God, for they are dead in their sins, and it is the living, that praise him, and not the dead. Next, all lying is abomination, but many times it falls out that by singing of Psalmes, the people come to lye in the presence of God, in stead of worshiping him, by saying, I am not pu [...]t up in mind, I have no deceitfull heart I water my couch with teares; and much more of this nature which were the particular ex­periences of David, and may be safely said, by those that vvitnesse the same thing, but as to you that use them, are false & untrue. I say, as thou doest, that though every Psalme does not sute our condition, yet in every Psalm, there may be meditaion, for edification: but this no wayes meets the case for there is a great difference betwixt meditating upon a Psalme, & singing one vvhereby vvee apply ourselves to the Lord, in the vvords of David, vvhich unless they sute our condition, cannot be done without a lye.

Pag. 33, and 34. Thou comest to prove that Baptisme with water is an ordinance of Iesus Christ, for which thou givest as a reason, First, be­cause John baptised with water, and was really sent of God; Which thing [Page 49] is not denyed, because Iohns baptisme vvas a Baptisme, vvith VVater; But that that vvas the Baptisme, vvhich vvas to continue is the matter in question: to prove vvhich, thou bringest in thy Second reason, that the baptisme of Christ and the baptisme of Iohn differed only in circumstance, and not in substance, because they agree in the Author, in the Matter, and in the End. To which I answer, that though they agreed in the Au­thor, that will not conclude them to be one, because by the same rea­son, it might be said, that the Old Testament, and the New are one, or that Circumcision & Baptism are one, for that God was the Author of both. As to the matter, they are not one neither, for the one was a Baptisme with VVater, and the other, a Baptisme with the Spirit, and with fire, as Iohn himselfe distinguisheth them. Mark. 1. 8. Now in respect baptisme with water can be administred, where the other, to wit, with the Spirit, is not, therefore they are not one in Substance. They also agree not in the end; for the end of the one, to wit, Baptisme with VVater, is but to point or shew forth the other, So that as the shadow, and the Substance differ in their ends, in like manner doe these two: for the end of the shadow is but to point to the substance: the end of the Sub­stance, in this thing being to cleansc, and purifie the heart produce­ing that effect to such as it is truly administred unto, but the shadow is frequently administred, and the heart not cleansed, therfor they differ in their ends. Now to shew, that they differ in substance, it is written, Acts. 19. Vers. 2. 3. 4. 5. that there were of the baptisme of Iohn, who had not so much as heard of the holy Ghost, far lesse received it. Now had the Baptisme of Iohn, and the Baptisme of Christ beene one they could not have had the one, and beene altogether ignorant of the other. For a Third Reason, thou sayest, that Iesus Christ commanded, and enjoined the Disciples to baptise, and that baptising they used water, But wher hee commands them to Baptise, Math. 28. there is no com­mand to baptise them with VVater, or into vvater, but into the name of the Father, Son, and holy Spirit, So here is the baptisme into the Spi­rit, but not into outward water, and the Apostles vvere Ministers of the Spirit, and ministred the Spirit unto those vvho beleived. And though they used the water baptisme at tymes, yet it rests to be pro­ved, that they did it in obedience to that generall command, Math. 28. and not in condescendence to the people, vvho had re­ceived [Page 50] a great esteeme of Iohn, and vvere so nursed up, vvith outward Ceremonyes, that it vvas hard, suddenly to vveane them from such, as they did the like in other cases, vvhich also servs for ansvver to thy Fourth Reason, vvher thou instancest Peter his baptising Cornelius after he received the Spirit, for Peters vvords imply no command, but only that at that occasion the thing might be done, Can any man, said he, for­bid water, that they may not be baptised Acts. 10. 47. And though it be said, Vers. 48. that hee commanded them to be baptised in the name of Christ yet it holds forth no command from Christ, only the thing being agreed upon, that it might be done, he bid doe it, but that the Apostles received no commission to baptise vvith water, is clear from that of Paul, vvhere he sayeth, I thank God, I baptised none of you but Crispus, and Gajus, and the houshold of Stephanus, &c: for said he, I was not sent to baptise, but to preach the Gospell, 1. Cor. 1. 16. 17. Novv it is not questioned, but his Commission vvas as large, as any of the rest, for he himselfe said, that hee vvas not inferiour to the cheifest of the Apostles: but, that hee thereby denied, hee vvas sent to admi­nister the holy Spirit, vvhich is the baptisme of Christ, is absurd to think: for a Fifth Reason, thou sayest, it is the will of Christ, that this or­dinance should continue and abide in the Church, because hee promised to be with his Ministers to the end of the VVorld; To which I answer, that this promise related to the Baptisme of the Spirit, which is Christs Bap­tisme is granted, but that it related to the Baptisme of water is denied: for hee was with Paul, who yet professed, hee was not sent to baptise with water. And whereas some give their meaning to Paul his words, that hee was not sent only, or principally, to baptise with water, this is an addition to the Scripture Words, for which they can shew no sufficient ground: And if men will take a liberty to adde to Scrip­ture Words, from their owne Spirit, they may wrest the Scriptures, to de­fend the worst of opinions, as when it is said, Thou shalt not bow downe to them, nor VVorship them, one should put this meaning upon it: thou shall not bow downe to them, not Worship them principally, and therefore would averre that graven Images may be worshiped, this were a most perverse abusing of Scripture. Sixthly, Thou sayest, Tho [...]e who cast off this ordinance doe what in them lyeth, to rob themselves of all the excellent ends, and uses of it, which are held forth in these Scripture expressions. Ans. I hat such who cast off the Baptisme of Christ by the [Page 51] Spirit, may incurre that hazard, it is granted, but that any such thing will follow from the not useing of water is denyed: as shall appear by examining the Scripturs cited. The first is, Act. 2. 28. Repent and be baptised every one of you, for the remission of your sins. Ans. Here is no mention made of outward VVater, and Repentance, and Remission of sins may be, and are found without it, and where it is, both these are frequently wanting: But though it should be understood of out­ward water, it is spoke but to particulars, and is no universal com­mand. The Second is, 1 Pet. 3. 21. The like figure whereunto, even bap­tisme doth also save us: But the very follovving vvords doe give an ansvver to that, and clear the meaning, not to be of Water baptisme, saying, Not the putting away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards God, by the resurrection of Iesus Christ. The Third is, Act. 22. 16. Arise, and be baptised, and wash away thy sins. But that a being baptised vvith vvater is a vvashing avvay of sin, thou canst not from hence prove, seeing the contrary is abundantly vvitnessed, and suppose Water-baptisme vvere here to be understood, it being but spoke to one, infers no universal command. The Fourth is Ephes. 5. ver. 26. That hee might sanctifie and cleanse it; with the washing of water. But by vvater cannot here be understood outvvard VVater, but that of the VVord and Spirit, for the next Verse speaks of presenting it vvith­out spot, or vvrinkle: Which the outvvard VVater cannot doe, see the like place Iohn. 3. 5. Vnlesse a man be borne of the vvater, and of the Spirit, hee cannot enter into the Kingdome of God. Novv if by Water here, vvere to be understood outvvard VVater, it vvould inferre that VVater baptisme is absolutely necessary to Salvation, vvhich thou sayest, thou canst not affirme vvith Papists. Lastly, thou citest, Gal. 3. 7. For as many as have beene baptized into Christ have put on Christ; But VVater Baptisme can­not be here understood, because many vvho are baptised vvith VVa­ter, never put on Christ, nor bear his Image, but the Divells, and are found doing the Divels vvorks; So that none of these Scriptures prove the VVater Baptisme to be of continual necessity, in the Church, for it being but a figure, it vvas to give place to that one Baptisme, Eph. 4. 5. And vvhereas, it is said by some, that the Water Bap­tisme, and the Baptisme by the Spirit is but one, because of that a­greement betvvixt the signification of the Water, and the Spirit, thereby signified; this is a vvresting of this Scripture, as much, as if [Page 52] one should say, rhat all the tipes figures, and shadowes of the old Testa­ment, were one with the substance signified by them, and consequently that these Tipes are all now to be upheld and used, whereas indeed, the coming of the Substance ends the figures, among which are the divers Baptisms, for so should the place be translated, Heb. 9. 10. which were imposed untill the time of Reformation, but are no longer binding, since the Reformation is come.

Thou endest this matter, vvith asserting, That thou canst safely say, that the Spirit of God concurring with, and blessing this ordinance; It is a profitable meane to further our Salvation: but if so be it be no ordinance of Christ, as heretofore is proved, then wee cannot expect, that the Spirit will concurre with it; but indeed that hee is provoked by it, considering the abuses in your administration of it: as First, in admi­nistring it to Infants, for which yee have no command, nor example in Scripture: Next, in causing ignorant people to promise and en­gage before God, that the Children shall forsake the Divel, the VVorld, and the Flesh, while they themselves be slaves to all the three, and many more abuses, as that vvhereby yee pretend to in­roule Children as Members of the Church of God, which is pure and holy: it being oftentimes an occasion, of excesse and drunkennesse; and is indeed, rather like an inrolling under the Divels banner, seeing it is for most part accompanied with doing his work, therefore it is so farre from being hazardous to contemne such an ordinance, of man, that it cannot be, but hurtfull to continue in it.

In the Third place, Pag. 39. thou comest to prove, that the Lords Supper so called, is an Ordinance of Iesus Christ: For which thou bringst, as a First Reason, that Jesus Christ was the Author, and Or­dainer of it, but that proves not; That it was to be of perpetual continuance. Nor thy Second Reason, for though, the Disciples were bid doe it, in remembrance of him, they were not bid doe it alwayes: Neither will, Act. 2. ver. 42. which thou bringest as a Third Proofe, serve thy turn, for by comparing it vvith Verse 46. it is evident, that their breaking of bread was their ordinary eating, for it is said they continued daily with one accord in the Temple, and breaking bread fro [...] house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singlenes of heart, so that this was a daily eating, from house to house, and not at all such an eating, as years is, which you have but once, or tvvice, or thrice in a year, or at such set tyms, as you appoint to [Page 53] your selves; whereas theirs was an eating from house to house, wherein they received food sufficient to their bodily nourishment: your eating is not so: You vvil not have your Sacramental Bread and Wine, so called, to be used in private Houses, or, Familiies, and your eating, is rather a mock-eating, vvherein you doe not eat, that which is sufficient to the Bodily nourishment (as these did Act. 2. 42. 46.) every one of you taking a little bread about the quan­tity of a Beane, vvherein you have no example from the Saints, but rather from the Papists, vvho have their vvafers.

Againe, this eating mentioned Acts. 2. ver. 42. 46. is conjoined with this, that they sold their possessions, and had all things in com [...]on, and so they did eat together daily in common, which is not like your eating; Now if you would make their example, and and practise, your Rule, why doe y [...]e not sell your possessions, as th [...]y did, and have things in com [...]on? also why doe yee not abstaine from eating blood, and things strangled, as they did? and why doe yee not wish one anothers feet, which they were as so­lemnly commanded to doe, as to take and eat, &c: Ioh. 13. 14. 15. If you say, these things were but to continue for a time, what ground have yee to affirme, that these were not alwayes to continue, and those of Water-Baptisme and breaking bread were to be alwayes continued; For a Fourth Reason thou sayest Paul recommended the practise of this to the Church of Corinth. Cor. 11. 23.

Answ. that hee recommended it unto them by way of command, wee deny, for hee delivered unto them no command to practise it, but that which hee delivered unto them was the Relation of the mat­ter of fact as what the Lord did in the night, wherein hee vvas be­trayed; Thou sayest, The Apostle doth not only here relate the matter of fact, but like wise warrants the frequent use of this ordinance: it is one thing to warrant the use of it and farre another to command the use of it, wee doe not deny but the use of it, vvas lavvfull, and vvarrantable at that tyme, but vvee say, it vvas not commanded unto them, but left, or permitted to them, as these vvords import, as often as yee eat, &c. and againe, let a man examine himselfe and so let him eat; the vvords imply no command, but only that they vvere in the use, or practise of it, and being therein hee gives them direc­tion, hovv they might use it, so as not to receive hurt there by [Page 54] Now that the Corinthians were weak in many things, and did many things by permission, is clear by the whole straine of that Epistle to them. For a Fifth Reason; thou sayest, thou readest not in Scripture, where Christ, and his Apostles did abolish it, Answ: if it were so, that then there was no absolute need, for the very institution intimats the abolishing thereof at Christ his coming, as to any necessity by way of command, though afterwards it might have beene used by per­mission, being gradually to passe away, as did other things, for Circumcision, was abolished by the coming of Christ; yet it was used after his coming, together with divers other Ievvish coremonies; But as concerning the abolishing or ending of it see 1. Cor. 10. 15. 16. 17. I speake as unto vvise men, judge yee vvhat I say, the cup of blessing vvhich vvee blesse, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? the bread vvhich vvee breake is it not the communion of the body of Christ? And then hee pro­ceeds to shew, what that bread was, for (saith hee) vvee being many are one bread. Now what is that one bread? is it the out­vvard, or is it the invvard and spiritual? if it be the outward, then there is no inward and Spirituall bread, Or if it be the inward, and Spirituall, which is that one bread, then that outward bread, (as being, but a figure) is ceased from being of use, as to any necessity, and this hee spoke unto the wise who saw beyond the shaddovv, and figure, unto the substance, the end of it; which was that heavenly bread and refreshment, which Christ himselfe giveth unto these souls to feed upon, who know the mistery of his indwelling in them; which bread is indeed his body. So that now the bread being one, which is the body of Christ the outward bread hath no place in the supper of the Lord; for then there should be not one bread, but tvvo: for the out­ward bread, and the inward are tvvo, and not one bread and if any say, the outward bread, though it be not properly the body of Christ and thing signified, yet it may be said to be one vvith it, because of that agreement, betwixt the signe, and the thing signified.

I ansvver, that is not sufficient, vvhy the outvvard bread should be called the one bread, or one vvith the thing signified, othervvise by the same evasion one might plead for the continuance of all the Sacri­fices and offerings, of Ra [...]s, and Bulls and Goats, and say they are one vvith that one offering of Christ, mentioned Hebr. 10. 14. becaus they signified that one offering: Now were not this an abominable [Page 55] vvresting of the Apostles words, to say, all these outvvard of­ferings vvere the one offering, becaus they did signify it? For indeed hee does contradistinguish them, from this one offering, that becaus of its being come, hee inferrs they were to passe away. And so it is as plaine that the Apostle contradistinguished, betwixt that one bread and the outward bread, together with the other Figures, and shadowes, according to which, writing to the Colossians he saith Coloss. 2. 16. 17. let no man condemne you in meat, or drink or holy day, or New moone, or Sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. And hee bids them seeke the things above, and not the things, which the Apostle said, did perish in the using, saying touch not, ta [...]t not handle not. Coloss. 2. 10. 21. 22. Com­pared with Coloss. 3. 1. 2. which hee spoke, becaus they began to lay too great a weight upon these things, and to hold them up as perpe­tuall, which we [...] to passe away: for a Sixth Reason, thou sayest, the Apostles, and Primitive Christians who did partake of the Spirit in a large measure did use it. Ans. that they used it for some tyme is granted, but that they used it as of necessity, or command, is denyed, nor did they use it for themselves, but for the sake of the weake who could not be suddenly weaned from it. Thy Seventh Reason, is, that it is the mind, and will of God, that this ordinance should be continued in his Church until the second coming of Christ to judgement, By which Second coming thou, and you, understand his outward coming for which you have no ground, to say, that hee bid them observe it, till his out­ward coming so many hundred years after: for the Scripture speakes nothing so, but thus— yee shew forth my death, till I come: now wee say, hee did come according to his promise in a Spirituall and inward way of appearance in their hearts, feeding them, with the heavenly food, and refreshment of his owne life and, Spirit which is the substance, and concerning this coming hee spoke unto them, in many places, particularly Iohn. 14. 18. I will not leave you fatherlesse, I will come unto you. Yet a little while, and the world, seeth me not, but yet shall see me: and ver. 23. If any man love me, hee will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and wee will come unto him, and make our abode with him: which coming was inward; according to vers. 20▪ you in me, and I in you. And those that witnessed him thus come, needed not out­ward bread and wine to remember them of him, for his owne Spirit [Page 56] would bring all things to their remembrance: they need not looke upon the figure and shadovv, who have the Substance: Paul said, wee looke not upon things, which are visible neither will Gods condes­cendence to their weaknesse, who were but newly redeemed from out of a masse of heathenish superstitions, prove a command, or a rule to the whole Church, or a warrant for any, now to be found in the Ad­ministration thereof; & to hold up the outward figure, doe cloake them­selvs, by shutting out, , and denying the Spirituall appearance of Christ, as hee doth immediatly reveal himselfe in his children, in whom he has made manifest, the substance, which ends the shadow. For an Eighth Reason thou sayest, that persons vvho cast off this ordinance, are their soules great enemies, for they stand in the vvay of their soules Spirituall good, in that this is a Spiritual nourishing, strengthening ordinance, where Spiri­tuall food is offered, and delicate meat and drink, for strengthening believers, in their journey to heaven; To vvhich I ansvver, that those vvho neglect and despise having fellovvship and communion vvith God, and laugh and scoffe at the usefull, and necessary duety of vvaiting upon the Lord in silence, vvherein his children feele their soules nourished with the Body, and blood of Christ, and with spirituall Manna which des­cends from heaven, and is distilled into their soules; not only, once, or twice a year (which are the seasons, wherein that which thou termst Spirituall food, is ministred among you) but daily, and hourely, by the fresh incoms of life such indeed are to their souls, great enemies, though they be sticking to the performance of some ex­ternall ceremonies wherein in former times, God (in condescen­dence to some, becaus of the simplicitie of their hearts) appeared, and yet even then frequently, as much, and more, at other tymes. But now the Sun is set upon those who will needs be upholding the shadovv, in opposition, to the substance: therefore their table is become polluted, and may more truely be termed the table of devils, then the communion of the Body of Christ, where a mixt multitude of all sorts of wicked persons, living out of Gods fear, sit downe toge­ther, being seemingly in words excommunicated from approaching, by the Preacher, and yet presently admitted to it, by the same: and to turne away from such an Ordinance so called, is no sin, nor hurt, but all who become obedient to the light of Christ in them, will find it their place to forsake it, as being such an ordinance, vvhich the [Page 57] Apostle said, touch not, tast not, handle not, vvhich is all to perish vvith the using.

In the fourth place Pag: 41: thou vvilt prove, that the ministerie of the vvord is an ordinance of Iesus Christ: becaus first Christ, appointed Ministers and Pastors to be in his Church; But this cannot be asserted in opposi­tion to the Quakers, vvho grant the same. And vvhy citest thou, Eph. 5. 11. and. 1. for. 12. 8. which if they prove the contin [...]ance of Pas­tors, and teachers, prove also the continuance of Prophets, Evangelists, and Apostles, vvhich yee deny. As to the second Reason that the Ministrie is not common to all, but that there be some Pastors and teachers, is also ovv­ned by us: Yet that hinders not, but that any at a time may speake, vvhen the Saints are mett together, as the Lord moves by his Spirit. according to 1. Cor. 14. 31. for it is one thing to be particularly cal­led to the Ministrie, and another to be moved to speak at a particular time: vvhich distinction that it vvas usuall among the Apostles in the Primitive times is easilie observed, in the forenamed Chapter▪ For a Third Reason, thou sayest, whom God calleth to the Ministrie, he doth it either immediatly, without the intervention of men, or mediatly by men authorised for that purpose: but for this, thou bringst no proofe neither art thou able to make out, that ever God called any under the nevv covenant so mediatly to their Ministrie by men, as they vvere not to have an immediate call in themselves: Though the appro­bation of good and experienced men, in its place, is not denyed by us, but dearly ovvned. Fourthly thou sayest, who ever pretends to an immediate call they ought for the satisfaction of others to shew signes, and tokens of their Apostleship▪ to which I ansvver. That those who come prea­ching the Gospell not in speech only, but also in Power, and in the holy Ghost, and in the evidence and demonstration thereof: As it is. 1. Thess. 15. and. 1. Cor. 2. 4. give sufficient proofe that they are called of God, though they come not vvith outvvard miracles. And though Paul came to some vvith miracles, vvhere hee preached the Gospell, yet many believed, vvho savv no outvvard miracle. Also many of the Prophets vvrought no miracle, nor Iohn the Baptist. And though some miracu­lous things came to passe about his Conception and birth, those doe not of themselves prove him to be a Prophet, for miraculous things, & miracles vvere vvrought upon many, vvho vvere no prophets. If Mi­racles be necessarie to evince a man sent of God, hee must come vvith [Page 58] these Miracles, before the people, vvhich Iohn, did not, nor did Ionas come vvith any Miracle to convince the Ninivites, but simply declared his message. And Iohn Calvin asserteth that there is no need of Miracles, and yet hee maintaineth, that in his day, God raised up Apostles, or Evangelists, saying, that it vvas needfull such should be, to bring back the poor people, that had gone astray after Antichrist▪ Lib. 4. Chap. 3. Inst. Neither did any Protestants pretend to doe any Mira­cles, they pleading against the Papists, that there was no absolute need of any in respect they preached not a new Gospell, but that which was already confir­med with miracles by Christ, and his Apostles. And so thy plea against us here, is the same, that vvas urged by the Papists, against the primitive protestants. An evill and adulterous generation, said Christ, seeketh after miracles; and though Miracles should be given, they who will not beleive, the testimony of the Spirit of God in their consciences, bearing witnesse to the truth, will not also beleive, becaus of Miracles, as wee see plainly in the Jewes. And whereas thou sayest, Iohns immediate call is evident by the special predictions both of Malachy, and Isayas concerning him. So are there many speciall predictions, concerning the Lord his pouring forth of his Spirit upon many in these latter dayes, to prophecy or minister, as the Spirit should putt words into their mouths, And as for these Scripturs Tit. 1. 5. Ast. 14. 23. which thou bringst in the Fifth place they prove not, that those Elders had not the Authority and call of the Spirit of God in themselves. And whereas in the Sixth place thou sayest, though Ministers be set apart, and ordained by men, yet their Ministry is not from men, but from God, I answer; where the inward call and Authority of the Spirit of God is not witnessed, it cannot be said to be of God. And though Moses be said to consecrate Aaron, yet it doth not fol­lovv that Aaron, had no immediat call from God. Seventhly, thou sayest, The ministry is so necessary, that it is the will of Iesus Christ, that it should continue unto the end of the VVorld, Eph. 5. 12. 13. But thy proofe from that Scripture is altogether impertinent as to you, vvho be­lieve not, that the Saints can be perfected in this life, seeing the Mi­nistry is given for the perfecting of them. And that this perfection is on Earth, is clear, from the follovving verse, That hence forth, wee be no more as Children tossed to and fro, for in the other life, there is no hazard of being so tossed. And if the Ministry perfected not [Page 59] men in this life, it no where perfecteth them, for in the other life it hath no operation upon them. The Law, and Priesthood therof was a­bolished, becaus it made nothing perfect, and if the Gospell Ministrie should not make perfect it should also be abolished. And seeing your Ministrie perfecteth not, it is not the true Ministrie of the Gospell; as in­deed it is not, for it standeth not in the power of God, nor is it exercised in the will & motion of God, your Ministrie being such, that the whole ESSE, or BEING of it, may be, without saving, grace: or true holines, you expresly affirming that holines is not necessary, to the being of a Minister but that a man may be a Minister of the Gospell, who ought to be received, and heard, though hee have not the least graine of holines▪ Eighthly thou sayest, they who cast off the Ministerie of the word, wrong their owne soules, &c. Ansvv. if it be understood of the Ministry of Christ, it is granted, but of yours, it is denyed.

In the Fifth place Pag. 44▪ Thou vvouldst prove that the Lords people, are under a tye, & engagement to keep the first day of the vveek for a Sabbath For a First Reason, thou sayest, the Fourth commandement requires the keeping holy of one day of seven; but as it requires the observation of one day of seven, so it expresly instanceth that day to be the seventh, vvhich day yee keep not: vvherfor as to the Second Reason, If the com­mand, be morall and perpetuall, as thou callest it, it ought to be kept in every point of it; vvhich yee not doing, therein condemne your selves, but the outvvard Sabbath or the keeping one day of the vveek, for a Sabbath, is not perpetuall, but abolished together vvith the new moons, and other feasts, of the Jevves see Coloss. 2. 16. 17. Let no man judge y [...]u; in meat, or drink, or holy day, or new moone, or sabbath dayes which are a shadow of things to come. See also Rom. 14. vvhich plainly holds forth all dayes under the Gospel to be alike, and said Paul to the Galathians, yee observe dayes, &c. I am afrayd of you. For a Third Reason, thou sayest, that Iesus Christ plainly intimates the continuance of a Sabbath, becaus that speaking of the desolation of Ierusalem, he said, pray [...]hat your flight be not in the winter nor on the Sabbath day, Ansvv. but that Sabbath day, is neither here nor else vvhere said to be the first day of the vveke. The Jevves vvere to fly at that time and Christ holds forth their difficulties, that it should be grievo [...]s unto them, to be put to it, to fly on their Sabbath day, or be killed. For they kept it in the strictnesse of it, but as for any of your Sabbath keepers they are [Page 60] not so strait-laced, but they will doe lesse necessary things, then to fly from a danger on that day. And as the outward Jew, de [...]ireth, that hee may not be putt to fly, on his outward Sabbath, so the inward Iew, in Spirit, desireth much more that hee may keep his Sabbath, which is his Spirituall rest in Christ, that the enemy oft seeketh to breake, to cause him to fly on his Sabbath day, but this to you is a Mistery. Viz. what the Sabbath, of them who beleive, is Heb. 4. 9. 10. There remaineth therfor a Sabbatism, to the people of God, and hee, that is entred into his rest hath ceased from his owne works, as God did from his.

And that this Sabbath, or rest is not an outward day, is plaine, be­caus in the next verse hee saith let us labour therefore to enter into that rest. But if it were an outward day it might be easily entred into, but this is such a rest as none can enter into; who hearken not to the voice of the Lord, by beleiving and obeying it. For a Fourth Rea­son, thou sayest, though yee keep not the same day the Iewes did, yee have the same authority for keeping your day, that they had for theirs. Hence this day, that wee keep (sayest thou) is called the Lords day Rev. 1. 10. it be­ing set apart by the Lord for his service, and as a Special memorial of his Re­surrection, Answ. but for all this, here is no probation at all, but meer assertions. If yee have the same Authority, produce it, and let us see it. Iohn was in the Spirit on the Lords day, therfor the first day of the week ought to be kept, how hangs this together? Prove that Iohn meant the first day of the week: wee read much in Scripture, of the day of the Lord, which is the Lords day, but no where doe find it called the first day of the week, or any other naturall day. For it is spirituall, and as God called the naturall light, day, so hee calleth the Spirituall light of his appearance (where the Sun of righteousnes ariseth with healing under his wings) Day. And this is the day of the Lord, wherin his people rejoice, and are glad. And whereas thou sayest, it is set apart by the Lord, as a Speciall memoriall of his resurrection. This is thy naked as­sertion, without any shadow of proofe & if thou wilt say, that there­fore it is to be a holy day, becaus hee rose on it. Is not this a faire in­let to all the Popish holy Dayes? If yee keep one day for his Resurrec­tion, why not one day for his Conception, another for his Birth, another for the Annunciation of the Ange, another for his being crucified, an­other for his Ascension? & then wee shall not want holy dayes in good store. Fifthly thou sayest. who oppose the Sabbath day, sin against mercy, [Page 61] and equity, and Iustice. Answ. It is granted, bnt who oppose your day which yee have made, or imagined, to be the Sabbath, doe not sin against any of the fore-said, if in other things they keep unto the rule of mercy, and justice. First they sin not against mercy, if through all the dayes of the week, they be found in that, which is for the good of themselves, and their neighbours. Not lay­ing too heavie burdens, upon their owne soules, by excessive care and labour in outward things nor yet forcing their bodily strength, beyond the rule of mercy and love, nor imposing any things upon either servants, or cattell, contrary to mercy. For if the Law required mercy, even in these things, much more the Gospell, so that wee grant, times of rest are to be given unto Servants, and Beasts, and Mercy is to be shewed unto them, more then under the Law. And thus is the end of the Sabbath answered, which was made for man: yea, this is indeed to keep the Sabbath. To undoe every burden, and to let the oppressed goe free, both as to the inward, and the outward. And the Lords People have frequent times, more then once a week, where­in, laying aside their outward affairs for a season, they may and doe meet together, to wait upon the Lord, and be quickned, and re­freshed, and instructed by him, and worship him in his Spirit. And may be useful unto one another, in exhortation, or admonition, or any other way, as the Lord shall furnish; And such who find any dis­temper upon their minds, through letting them goe forth too much upon outward things, may find the Lord allowing them any other day, or time, no lesse then that, to gett their hearts reduced into a right frame. And it were sad, if the Lord had only allowed, but one day of seven, unto this effect. The Lord inviteth and alloweth the weary, and distempered, (who love to be cured of their [...]empers) to come unto him every day: And as for those, who abide not in a due care every day, to have their hearts ordered arights, but let their minds goe forth excessively in outward occasions, all the week, they provoke the Lord, to shut them out from accesse to him, upon the First day. And our soules doe oft blesse the Lord in allowing us ma­ny times of refreshment, and strengthning, to the establishing and confirming us in his love and life, and disburdening our minds of earthly things, much more frequently, then in one day of seven. And as for sinning against Justice, they cannot be charged with it, who [Page 62] give up unto the Lord, not onely one day of seven, but all the seven, even all the dayes of their life unto his service: for equity and J [...]stide calleth upon us to spend all the seven in his service, that our hearts may continually be exercised in his fear, and love, and what ever wee doe, wee may doe, it to him, and in him. And as for the first day of the week▪ we meet together even on that day, (as wee doe on o­ther dayes) according to the practise of the primitive Christians, to wait upon the Lord, and worship him, but to plead so obstinately as yee doe, that the fourth Commandement, bindeth to a particular obser­vation of that day, and yet to be found so slack in the observa­tion of it, as you generally are, is such an inconstancie as the Quakers cannot owne. And so whereas thou wouldst confine the Lord his gi­ving rest, and comfort to the souls of his people, and the falling of the Manna, to the first dayes, calling them spirituall market dayes, as if there were no other, wee cannot owne it, knowing that the Lord giveth rest and comfort, every day, and causeth the Manna plenti­fully to fall every day, to those that walk in his fear, and wait upon him; and hee has no such circumscribed Market day as thou drea­mest of, but that yee, (I meane the Priests) make a Market day, of that day (So that yee may call it your day, as thou sayest Pag. 44. our day) wee know, wherein you sell, and vend your Babylonish, commodities, and will be forceing, and compelling, all to come, and buy of them, or if nor, to send you mony, whither they receive ought, or not; or else yee will endevour by the help of the Magistrate to have them punished. So that it is made manifest, that it is only the inventions of men, that wee disovvne, and not any of the ordi­nances of Iesus Christ.

Pag. 46. Thou grantest the vvord, Originall sin, is not found in Scrip­ture and yet thou pleadst for it, [...]ecaus, sayest thou, the thing intended by it, is contained, and expressed in Scripture. Ansvv. vvee deny, that the thing by you intended, is exprest in Scripture, to vvit, that all in­ [...]a [...]s are sinners before God, only for Adams sin, and that there are reprobate Infants, vvho are sent to hell only for Adams first sine this vvee deny; nor doe the Scriptures cited by thee prove it, Psal. 51. be­hold I was conceived in sin. But first, if this place should prove the Infant guilty of any sin, it should be, of the sin of its ovvne immediat parents, in inquity did my mother bring me forth. Novv you say, the [Page 63] infant is not guilty of the sin of its ovvne immediate parents, but only of Adams, and Eva's first sin: of vvhich, this Scripture speakes no­thing. 2. it doeth not say, I vvas conceived and brought forth a sin­ner, as you vvould have it; vvhy make you infants guilty of A­dams sin, and not of the sins of then immediate parents? Novv it is granted, that there is a seed of sin, derived unto Adams posterity but wee say, none become guilty of sin before God, until they close with this evil seed: and in them, who close with it, it becoms an origine, or [...]o [...]intaine of evil thoughts, des [...]res, words and actions, which are their sins vvho close vvith it. But that the guilt of Adams first sin lyes at the door of Infants, who never actually, sinned, vvee deny. For a Second Proofe; thou citest Rom. 5. 12. Alleadging it should be rendred, that in Adam all sinned. But it is no such matter: For the words, however they be truly translated, can never be so rendred in Adam all sinned: The strictest translation of the words is thus, [upon which all have sinned, or in which all have sinned] Now, if the words be translated. [ Vpon which all have sinned.] They hold forth, hovv that Adam, by his sin gave an entrance to Sin in the World, and Death by Sin, and so upon this occasion, all others, have sinned, to wit, ac­tually in their ovvne Persons, so that all vvho ever sinned ac­tually, it was upon the occasion of Adams sin. For the Apostle is here speaking, not of Infants, who are not capable of any Law, but of such, as have a Law, and act against it. Yea from the Apostles words in the other following Verse, it is plaine, that sin is not im­puted to Infants. For saith hee, Sin is not imputed, where there is no Law. Now there is no Law given to Infants as such. For they are not capable of it. What the Law sayeth, it sayeth to them, vvho have in more or lesse some exercise of understanding, which Infants, new borne, have not, or, if the words be translated, [ in which all have sinned] that vvord VVHICH hath a nearer relative then ADAM, to wit, Death, for the seed of sin, is justly called Dea [...]h, becaus where it is joined unto, and obeyed, it killeth: and so in this seed all have sinned, who ever did actually sin; and as for the verse 18, of Rom. 5. which is commonly used to prove infants guiltie, and under condemnation, it is not tightly translated for the word judgement, or condemnation, or guilt, is not at all in the Greek, but those, who have drunk in this imagination, have added this word, to the Scripture so bending [Page 64] and bowing the Scripture to their false opinion. And whereas tho [...] sayest. wee were all in the loins of Adam, and therfore wouldest inferre, that infants are sinners in him, or guiltie of his sin. I say, It followes not, more then to say, wee are guiltie of all the sins of our Fore-fathers, becaus wee have beene in their loins; again thou labourest to prove that Infants are sinners becaus they are subject to pains, and diseases, and death. But this proveth them not to be sinners, as it proveth not that the Earth is a Sinner, or that the Herbs, and Trees of the field are sinners, for even these things have suffred, by Adams fall, a great decay: And as for the outward Death of those that are saved from eternal Death, it is rather a sleep, then a Death, as Christ said, concerning La [...]arus, hee sleepeth; and concerning the Maid, shee is not Dead, but sleepeth. And therefore, that Scripture, Rom. 6: 23. cannot be applyed, to them, who dye not, or perish not eternally: for though the Saints lay downe the outward man, it is not as the punishment or reward of their Sins, which are forgiven, and from which they are delivered. And so the sting of Death, being taken a­way, in those who are saved, it is not that Death, which is the wages of Sin, and seeing the Apostle said unto the Saints, that all things were theirs, even Death, it cannot be that their Death should be rec­koned the wages of their Sin, how many of the blessed Martyrs have looked upon their suffering a most violent Death, for truth, and righteousnes as a Gift of God? How then could it be said to be the wages of their Sins; which implye as if their Sins were not all freely forgiven?

Pag. 48. From this doctrine, thou sayest; it will follow, First, that all Infants, that die in their infancy, are saved, and though charity may be pleaded for this opinion, (thou sayest) yet what Scripture can be alledged for it? Answ. If, I should bring that Scripture, Suffer little Children to come unto me, for of such is the Kingdome of Heaven, It will much more naturally flow from the words, then that they ought to be sprinckled, which is the meaning yee put upon them. And whereas some ob­ject, it is not said of them, but of such. I answer, but that such in­cludeth them, and all others, who are like them, in harmles­nesse: otherwise if they had beene excluded hee would not have given it as a reason, why hee bid suffer them to come unto him: but be­sides, the 18. Chap. ver. 20. of Ezekiel, is a plaine proofe, The soul [Page 65] that sinn [...]th shall die, the Son, shall not bear the fathers iniquitie: unlesse that the Son be found acting the same iniquity, and continuing in it; for then hee visits the iniquities of the Fathers upon the Children. Now thou hast produced no Scripture to prove, that any infants doe perish, and indeed there is nothing in Scripture for it, but against it. Secondly thou sayest, it would follow, that infants dying in their infancy, stood no in need of Christ, as a Saviour; for hee is a saviour to save his People from their sinnes. Answ. Hee is a Saviour not only to save from sins, but also from the consequences of sin, and not only from the fruits and branches of it, but from the seed: and they are saved from sin, who are not suffered to fall into it. And so these infants, whom the Lord takes away in their in­fancie, that they might not sin, are saved from it. It is salvation, to be kept from falling into a pit, as truly, as to be taken out of it, after the falling in. And as for that Scripture, it maketh against you, Math. 1. 12. For it speaketh of a salvation from sin, wheras you dreame of a salvation in your sins: Nor doeth Rom. 7. 24. Speake of infants, so thy citing it here is impertinent. And though there be a time, wherin there is a crying out for deliverance from the body of sin, and death, yet there is also a time of deliverance from it; even before the laying downe of the outward body, as is plaine from Rom. 6. 6. 7. Know­ing this that the old man is crucified, and hee that is dead, is freed from sin. Yet wee acknowledge there is great occasion to be low, and to be in great feare, and care, left sin, which is once crucified, revive againe.

Pag. 48. Thou chargest us, as holding a falling away from Regenera­tion, and as agreeing therein with Arminians. But if the Arminians hold a falling away from Regeneration, wee hold no such matter. For those who fall away, never attained unto the Regeneration, and so were ne­ver the children of God, but only were in the way to it, by having attained to some beginings of Faith, from which some may, and have fallen away, for that it is expresly said by Christ, some beleive, and afterwards fall away: and some depart from the faith, and make shipwrack of it, and some, who have tasted the good word of God, and the po­wers of the world to come fall away. These and many such instances are in Scripture, nor do the Scriptures cited by thee prove the contrary: as Phi­lip. 1. 6. which is to be understood no otherwise, then as the condition is performed upon their part. As Heb. 3. 14. wee are made partakers of [Page 66] Christ, if wee hold fast the principle of our establishment, (or wherby wee are established) firme unto the end; and so these, who hold fast this Principle, witnesse the work, which God hath begun in them, to be carried on untill the day of Christ, even till hee be compleatly formed in them, and they in him. It may be supposed, that Paul was as confident that God would perfect the VVork begun in himselfe, and yet hee supposeth, it night be other wise, where he sayeth least preaching the Gospell to others, I my selfe become a cast away. And though some fall away, the disho­nour of the foolish builder cannot be cast upon God, but upon them, who fall away: for it standeth very well vvith the wisdome, and po­wer of God, to suffer them to fall away, who knowingly, and wilfully depart from the Lord, and will not concurre, with him in the work, as subordinate Instruments, but resist him though her invite, and call, yea draw them; The next thou citest, is. 1. Peter. 15. Answ. Such as are so kept by the power of God, it is through Faith, but as they abide not in that power, through Faith, but wand [...]r from it, they fall, and cannot but fall away: And as for Ierem. 32. 40. ci­ted by thee, it should be translated thus, I will putt my fear into their hearts, that they may not depart from me, so Iunius and Tremellius ver­sion; or not to depart from me, as the Septuagint hath it. Now to say, that they may, not depart, is one thing, and to say, they cannot depart, is another. Yet where the fear of God coms so to be raised and established in the heart, over all, wee beleive such cannot depart, but every one, is not attained to that State, where yet the fear of God may have some place. And as touching these other Scriptures. Ioh. 10. 27. 28. 29. And John. 13. 1. and. 1. Iohn. 2 19. they speake of those, who are come to a through Regeneration, who (wee doe beleive) can never fall a­way; as being be got into the perfect Nature of the elect sheep and Chil­dren. Nor doth it follow, from this that one may be a Child of God to day, and a Child of the divell to morrow, for these, who are once, properly the children of God through a true and through regeneration, can never become the children of the divel, nor be cast out of Gods speciall love, that hee beareth to his owne children. For to end this matter, thou sayest it is safer to question the truth of the graces of those that fall away, then the doctrine of the perseverance of the Saints. But doest thou looke upon the Quakers, as having fallen away? if thou doest, how comes it, that thou bespeakest them in thy Epistle, as those, [Page 67] who have had reall Grace, saying to them, did yee attaine to that knowledge of, and acquaintance with God, which yee have, in the use of ordinances? and againe, yee did run well, who did hin­der you? And againe, why should they asperse these ordinances, which have beene the means of their conversion? Or are these words only a Ioabs kisse, by vvhich thou vvouldest kisse the Quakers, vvhile in the meane tyme, thou hast a svvord hid under thy cloak to strike them thorough, under the fifth rib. But the Quakers are avvare of thee, and having on the armour of God, are out of thy reach.

In the last place. Pag. 50. thou undertakest to prove, that our er­rors (as thou callest them) tend to irreligiousnes, and Atheism; becaus they tend to take avvay the vvorship due to God, but it hath beene heretofore proved, that vvee deny not true VVorship, but only your idolatrous superstitious worships, vvhich cannot truly be called the VVorship of God. Our vvay (thou sayest) tends to irreligiousnes; becaus frequently, wee goe to meat, and come from it, vvithout seeking a bles­sing, or returning thanks; which is to deny God a part of that Worship, vvhich is due to him. 1. Tim. 4. 4. 5. Ansvv. to receive the gifts, and benefits of God, vvith thanks giving and to vvitnes it blessed, and sanctified to us, by the word, and prayer, is ovvned by us: and to knovv this so, vvithout taking off the hat, or using of formall speak­ing of vvords, (though it be a thing frequently used by us also) tends to no irreligiousnes:, for it is a thing usuall among us, vvhen vvee sit dovvne to eat, to vvait upon the Lord, for some time that vvee may feel his presence, and knovv ourselves stated in his fear, to vvhich the blessing is [...] and as vvee there stand, if any outvvard expressions, be required of any, then in Gods fear, they may utter them, and this is to knovv, the blessing indeed, and to be in the place, that is blessed. But for people that are conversing, out of Gods fear, stated in a Light airy Spirit, not only many tym [...]s laughing and scoffing, but some times even blaspheming, present­ly so soone as the meat cometh, to clap off their hats, and speake a fevv vvords in a custome, and so soone, as they have done, fall to their former vvork againe: is not this Atheisme, and irreligiousnes? for if such did think of God aright, and knovv, vvhat it vvere to fear him, they vvould be far from addressing themselves in such pos­tures unto him, neither could they be so impudent, as to expect a bles­sing [Page 68] from him, while they stand in that condition, to which the curse is annexed.

In the second place. Pag. 51. Thou sayest, Doth not the taking men off from prayer, tend to Irreligiousnes, and Atheisme? Now you teach, wee must not pray in private, nor in families, without an impulse therefore. Answ. This is no sound argument; to take men off from prayer, tends to irreligiousnes, is granted, but to say, that a man cannot, nor ought not to pray, without the Spirits, drawing, and motion which you commonly name by impulse (a vvord, vvhich common people doe not understand) hath no such tendency, or, that it takes any off from prayer, truly so called is denied. For hath that a bad tendencie which take's men off from such Prayers, as are abomination, & are not true Prayers, but hypocritical, and deceitful? As all such Prayers are that are performed without the help of the Spirit. Wee say, whosoever can pray to the Lord indeed, let them pray, wee are not to forbid them, but, that any can pray without the Spirit that wee deny, according to 1. Cor. 14. 15. I will pray with the Spirit, &c. And Rom. 8. 26. like­wise also, The Spirit helpeth your infirmities, for wee know not, what wee should pray for, as wee ought: Now if wee know not, what to pray for, without the Spirit, how can wee pray without it? Paul durst not ad­venture upon this duty, without the assistance of the Spirit (yea, hee said, no man could say, that Jesus is the Lord, but by the holy Ghost) but here, an arrogant generation will needs by praying without it, which yet is not Prayer, and such families where this only is used, cannot be truly said to call upon God, while such truely may be said so to doe, that wait upon the Lord, and stand in his fear, and bring forth the fruits of righteousnes, though they be not, so much in the external signification of words, which also at times is found in our families, as the Lord requireth it, and giveth utterance. And where­as thou sayest, That thou beleivest it will be found, that some of us, for the space of a whole Yeare have not so much, as once bowed a knee to call upon God in their families. What ground hast thou, for this thy beliefe? May they not bow their knees in their families, though it be hid from the observation of malicious eyes, who may so asperse them? May they not pray in secret, and be seene of the Father to pray▪ according to Matth. 6. 6. Though they cannot be seene by the eyes of malicious Spyes? And where a publick testimony in words is required, it is [Page 69] also given, nor doe wee know any friends of truth, who have any, whom they can joine with in Prayer, in the family, but doe meet toge­ther in the family, and wait together, breath together, and pray together, and that much oftener, then thou insinuats, sometimes without, and sometimes with the outward signification of words, so that wee returne this thy charge as false and malicious. Thou sayest, If this impulse be denyed for Years, men all that while (according to us) must not pray. But here thou speakest as one, wholly unacquainted with the wayes, and motions of the Spirit, to suppose such a case, which cannot be; for the breathings, and motions of the Spirit, and especially unto Prayer, are very frequent, unto those who wait for them, and are as necessary unto the Children of God, as their dayly bread, yea and more, which the Father withholdeth not, but giveth in due season. But many times, the Spirit of Prayer, is felt to move, and is answered, when there is no liberty given, to speake words, in the hearing of others; nor is thy other supposition lesse vaine, and foolish, that if aman, were at the gates of death, and in danger of present drowning, yet without an impulse, (as thou callest it) hee must not ad­venture to cry to God for mercy, and help; for suppose he did cry, vvithout all help of the Spirit, vvhat vvould it avail him, vvould it have any acceptance vvith God? Shew us, vvherever a spiritlesse pra­yer, vvas accepted of God, or required: Nay, it is a vaine oblation, vvhich is expresly forbidden, and it is expresly commanded, that praying be alvvayes in the spirit. Eph. 6. 18. And as for the Saints, vvhen they are dying, or in any difficulty, wee know, the Spirit of prayer will never be wanting, to breath through them, at such occa­sions; and to give words, as there is a service for them.

But further, thou alledgest, that this Principle of ours, leadeth to woefull security, for what need you be d [...]quieted, for refraining prayer be­fore God (thou sayest) or any other piece of service, seing you have salve at hand to heal this sore, and that is, the want of an impulse. Answ. If any fall into security and refraine prayer, it is not, that our Prin­ciple leadeth into it; for our Principle leadeth out of all security, into continuall watching unto prayer, and wating upon the motions of the Spirit of God; now if any feel not these motions, they are nothing the lesse guilty, becaus by their neglect, they provoke the Lord to withhold them, and render themselves out of frame to feel, or en­tertaine [Page 60] them, and thus who neglect the worship of God, are justly un­der condemnation, and if they have peace, it is but a false peace, which will faile them; and as for our peace, wee have found it, to be great peace, but wee have not come by it, after such a way, as thou doest falsely, and rashly judge: as by neglecting the worship of God, and stopping the mouth of conscience, but by being turned to that living VVord and Law of God in our hearts, by loving it, and cleaving to it yea by receiving the reproofes & chastisements of God through it, and submitting to the judgement of it, when it hath beene as a hammer, and as a sword, and as a fire in us, breaking in pieces, and destroying all that false unsound peace, wee had created to our selves, in the day of our alien­ation, from the light of God in us. And unto peace wee are come, through great tribulation of soule, even such, as thou art a stranger unto, being ignorant both of the one, and the other, and so hast therein shewed thy folly in judging what thou knowest not. And as for woefull security, wee know not, where it more abounds, then among hypocriticall professors, who, with the VVhore in the Proverbs, offer up their sacrifices of morning and evening prayers, and thereby create a peace to themselves, though they let their hearts goe a whoring af­ter their lusts all the day: did not the Pharisees pray much outwardly, and were much in orher outward practises of devotion, and so created a false peace, and esteeme unto themselves? And can you deny, but that there are many such among you, who make up a false peace, to themselves by leaning upon their outward performances? Now what If I should charge this upon your Principle wouldst thou think it fair dealing.

Thirdly, Pag. 52. Thou sayest, Doth not that opinion, tend to Athe­isme, which rendreth mortification of sin (even in this life) useless, &c. Answ. Here thou dealest disingenuously. Is mortification of sin use­lesse, where the end of it, is attained? And is not perfection the end of mortification? Againe thou sayest, The opinion of a sinles perfection, wounds the very vitals of Religion? Answ. Who could have expected, that one, that pretends to Religion, would have beene so brazen­faced, as to put such an expression in print? What is the end of true Religion, but to lead out of sin? Do the vitals of Religion con­sist in sinning, or in not sinning? If it consist in sinning, then they that Sin most, are most religious: But if it consist in not sinning and [Page 71] keeping the commandements of God, without sin, then to plead for such a thing as attainable, hurteth not the vitals of Religion? What! Cannot the Saints live better without sin, then with it? Yea surely, they can live well without that, which is a burden, and as Death unto their life: they whose life is in sin, cannot live but in sin, but the Saints life is not in sin, but in righteousnes: And thy consequences are vaine and foolish, as 1. That men need not pray for pardon of sin, 2. That they need not the Blood of Christ, to cleanse them from sin, 3. That they need not repentance: For wee grant, that all have sinned, and so need those things, by which they may attaine unto perfection, and who witnesse perf [...]ction, are come to witnesse the true use of these things, and as the Blood of Christ cleanseth from all the sin, so is pre­serveth cleane, and such have received the forgivenes of their sins, being turned from them unto righteousnes, which is the fulfilling of repentance. And vvhereas thou sayest, Bring me to the particular per­son, that is sinlesse, and I shall apply to him, that of the Apostle. 1. Ioh. 1. 8. Thou shevvest openly thy confusion, for by thy applying to him, that of the Apostle, vvouldest thou inferre a sinlesse man to be a sinning man? That is a contradiction, but though vvee should bring a man to thee, that is made free from sin, by the power of God; Thou couldest no more judge of him, then a blind man can judge of colours, and as to [...] Ioh. 1. 8. it is a plaine case, If wee say, wee have no sin, and have fellowship with him, and yet walk in darknesse, as Verse 6. Then vvee deceive our selves, so it is conditional, othervvise it vvould contra­dict vvhat follovves Verse 9. and Chap. 2. 4. and Chap. 3 6. 9. As to that of the Sabbath, it is ansvvered above.

Pag. 53. Your Religion (sayest thou) will be welcome to the worst, and wickedest of men, for you will please them exceedingly, in crying downe of ordinances, the observation of the Sabbath, and private and family Prayer, &c. Ansvv. Wee cry dovvne no Ordinance of God, but your hypocri­tical vvayes, and vvee knovv no vvorse men, then those Hypocrits, vvhom vvee are so far from pleasing, in crying dovvne their hypo­critical Prayers, and performances, that they fret, and gnash at us vvith their teeth, and if they could gett th [...]ir vvill, vvould tear us in pieces, for vvitn [...]ssing against thos [...] things. And they are very blind who see not, that the d [...]nying of those things in shadow, and bare for­malitie, and establishing them in the power & substance, can no wayes [Page 72] be acceptable to the wicked, but most impleasing to hypocrits, who can per­forme the one, but not the other But now, let us examine, whither your Principles, or ours, be most acceptable to the wicked, and hypocrits. 1. Wic­ked men, and Hypocrits love well to hear that they can never be free from their sins, in this life, and that they must alwayes sin. 2. They love well to hear, to be justified by Christ without them, and his righteousnes without, but not by him, and his righteousnes within them. 3. They love well to hear, that the words without them, are the only Rule, which they can wrest accor­ding to their owne corrupt inclinations, but they love not to hear, that the word, and light of God within, is to be their rule, which they cannot wrest, nor bend. 4. They love well, to hear, that they may use the fashi­ons and customs of this world, bow, and cringe and give, and receive the honour of this world. they love to hear, they may use sports, and games, and playes. 6. To wear laces and ribbons, and gold rings, and other super­fluity. 7. They love well to hear, that men must not expect to hear God immediatly, being such as those who said, let not God speake unto us. 8. They love well to hear, that water baptisme, giving of bread and wine, are the ordinances of God, and the true Baptisme and Supper, for then they think they are Christians if they partake of these outward things, and they are mad against us, who call them shadowes: and as for their observation of that called the Sabbath, wee find, none more plead for it, then profane light men, and women, for they can easily dispence to hear a man talk for an hour, or two, and then have all the rest of the day, to spend in idlenes, vaine com­munication, and frequenting the alehouse, and decking themselves with vaine apparell. 10. They love well to hear, that they may be members of the Church, though they have no infallible evidence of holines. 11. They love to hear of your doctine of election & reprobation. 12. And of your doctrine once in grace, & ever in grace, wherby they feed themselves in presumption, & care­lesnes. Many other particulars could be mentioned, but these may serve enough to shew, that your Principles are pleasing to the wicked and hypocrits, and our displeasing. Next to come to expecience: where are the drunkards, the swearers, the whore mongers, the envious licentious persons, the scorners, the mockers, whither are they yours, or ours? If our Principles be so acceptable unto them, why doe they not inrolle themselves among us, why doe they oppose us at our meetings, at Aberdeene, and else where, and curse, and rant, and use all manner of filthy communication and are ready to stone us on the streets: And none more found so doing, then that young fry, and spawne of the Priest­hood, who are bred at your nurseries of learning. Now whose Church mem­bers are those, yours, or ours? is not the proverb, verified of you: Foules of one Feather, fly together.

Thou closest, with addressing thy selfe to God, with a notorious lye, saying, follow with they blessing, that which WE have beene about. Meaning the Quaker and thy selfe, but it was none of the Quakers work; the Dialogue not being any real conference: is not this to deride, and take the name of God in vaine