AN ANSWER TO TWO TREATISES Of M r. IOHN CAN, THE Leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam.

The former called, A Necessitie of Separation from the Church of ENGLAND, proved by the Nonconformists Principles.

The other, A Stay against Straying: Wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlaw­fulnesse of hearing the Ministers of the Church of England. Very seasonable for the present times.

By the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, JOHN BALL.

He that is first in his owne cause seemeth just, but his neighbour commeth and searcheth him, Prov. 18.17.
Prove all things, hold fast that which is good, 1 Thes. 5.21.

LONDON, Printed by R. B. and are to be sold by John Burroughes, at his Shop at the signe of the Golden Dragon neere the Inner Temple gate, in Fleetstreet. 1642.

TO The Christian READER, Sound Knowledge and love of the Truth, together with inward peace and Spirituall joy, through Communion with Christ, in the Ordinances of the Gospell.

Christian READER,

THis ensuing discourse was prepared for the Presse by the Reverend Author, and committed to one of us, that it might be made publike: of which we will say nothing, but shall freely venture it to stand or fall by the award of an imparti­all judgement. Neither shall wee present thee with the Authors deserved praises, seeing his rare pietie and great learning were sufficiently knowne to very many of vari­ous rankes, who were well acquainted with him, and his workes already Printed have given a competent proofe hereof unto all others who have [...] them without prejudice and partialitie.

Only by occasion of publishing this piece, wee [...]we leave to cleare him from such aspersions, as by [...] [Page]have causlesly beene cast upon him, and by others too much and too easily believed against him, (a thing inci­dent to men most eminent, and innocent, as instances in all Ages will evince) not only to the blemishing of his just estimation, but also (as we conceive) to the prejudice of the truth it selfe, and in favour of many spreading er­rours and exorbitances.

Those aspersions which wee shall endeavour to take off are two, which though they openly contradict each other, yet they unhappily agree to defame our worthy friend, whose credit wee judge our selves many wayes bound to vindicate and preserve.

The one, intimating some degree of declining from his former inconformitie, in deserting the Nonconformists cause and grounds, being too much inclined to favour the times in our Ceremonies and Service book.

The other, expressing his advancing beyond the won­ted limets of a Nonconformist towards the cause and course of separation.

Two things are pretended to confirme the former. 1. A passage in the Preface of his Book called, A friendly tryall of the grounds tending to separation, &c. pag. 3. his words are these. Many are the objections which are made against set formes of Prayer, and particularly against our booke of Common Prayer; All which I have endeavoured to answer severally, not because they are of so great weight; but because I desired fully to satisfie every doubt, &c. Secondly, that in the whole frame of the same booke he speakes more covertly and coldly against the corruptions of our Church than became a man who continued stedfast in the wayes of Nonconformity.

For Answer whereunto, we affirme in the Generall, That upon our knowledge he lived and dyed a strict for­bearer and firme opposer of all such corruptions as the Nonconformists (heretofore so usually called) had com­monly by their publike writings disallowed. Nor have [Page]wee knowne any man in that kinde more precise, uni­forme, and constant to his opinion in discourse, prayers, and practices, yet alwayes carried on with Christian mo­deration and meekenesse; which graces are of singular use in controversies of this nature: yea some of us can witnesse his purpose, (if God had lent him longer life) by a set Treatise to have shewed himselfe a plaintiffe for the Nonconformists against the corruptions in our Church, as in this hee appeares their defendant against the Calumnies of Master Can. These testimonies may satisfie the sober minded, that he continued cordial to their cause; whereunto more might be added, but wee desire not to revive the remembrance of these differences a­mong deare brethren: Because wee pray and hope that through Gods mercy; by meanes of our Gracious Sove­reigne, and of the present Parliament, they will in such sort be buried, that they shall arise no more to our distur­bance and discomfort.

More particularly to the passage objected out of the forecited Preface, we Answer, That the words themselvs doe not necessarily imply any such sense; but they may ad­mit, yea they will carry a better construction, if the Rea­der will be candid and well advised. For he saith not, that he hath answered the objections, as suggesting little or no­thing blameworthy in our Liturgie, but because they are not of so great weight as to inforce the unlawfulnesse of those set formes, or warrant a separation from our Chur­ches, and publike worship in regard thereof. All which both the title of the Booke, and the tenour of the whole discourse therein, together with this Treatise exhibited will sufficiently cleare unto the indifferent and attentive Reader. And that this was his meaning, some of us can testifie from his owne mouth, which also he would have manifested to the world (if God had lengthened his life) either in an Epistle annexed to this worke, now brought into the open light, or some other way, as might have been judged most convenient.

But you will say. Object. The other ground of this imputation is more pregnant, for why did he not speake out against the corruptions of the times as others did? Nay, why did he seek to clea [...] the book of Common Prayer of some things charged upon it?

Two things we conceive may fully take off the strength of this objection. Answ. 1. Because it was impertinent here to aggravate or multiply corruptions objected, but rather to shew, that as in some things the booke by them was o­vercharged, so notwithstanding all that could be alledg­ed against it, yet separation from our worship could not be lawfull, much lesse necessarie.

2 The state of those times wherein this piece was pen­ned would not brooke more plainnesse in that and such like points; this we could (if it were expedient) aboundantly evidence, by declaring with what difficultie it passed the Presse, what exceptions were taken at some harmelesse expressions, and what amendments were exacted in some phrases, which seemed somewhat openly to hint the Au­thors heart-workings towards that Reformation which in these times is much desired and endeavoured.

The second imputation remaines to be removed (viz.) that though our Reverend Author had both reasoned and written against the opinions and practice of separation in the time of his health, yet on his death bed he did retract, and with griefe repent what in that kinde he had done.

This is commonly reported, confidently believed, and gladly embraced, not only here at home, but also in for­reigne parts, even in America, as by divers letters and other wayes some of us have beene informed.

It is high time therefore to give open check unto these groundles rumours, lest the cause here maintained should thereby suffer prejudice, either in the mindes of them who are friends, or of those who be adversaries thereunto. And for this end we intreat the Reader first to consider that this imputation being directly contrary to the former, ei­ther [Page]they must confute each other, or else argue the man strangely light in wheeling from one extreame unto ano­ther, or guilty of a fowler fault, in writing one thing and thinking another: from both which charges we assure our selves his great soliditie in judgement, and pietie in pra­ctice will fully absolve him in the consciences of all such who were acquainted with him.

And as for others, we hope they may bee aboundantly satisfied by the ensuing evidence.

First, in that foure or five dayes before his death he ex­pressed to some of us his willingnesse to have this Trea­tise presented to publike view, which hee had compo­sed since the former.

Secondly, so soone as he had finished this book, he un­dertooke a large Treatise of the Church, wherein he in­tended to discover the nature of Schisme, and to deale in the main controversies touching the essence and govern­ment of the visible Church.

Concerning these matters, we have almost fifty sheets of Paper written with his owne hand, wherein many pas­sages expresle his continued dislike of the separations, both then and now in practice. And these writings, toge­ther with his other papers, he on his death bed commit­ted to the care of some of us, to be disposed of for private or publike use, as we should judge expedient.

Had there beene any griefe upon his Spirit, or alterati­on in his judgement, in reference to what he had spoken or printed against the separation, we know none so likely to have beene acquainted therewith as our selves. For one of us dwelling neare unto him, was for many years his bo­some companion, and in his last sicknesse seldome from him. Another (being requested during, his weaknesse, to supply his place) so journing in the same towne, was daily with him.

The other three of us (being his familiar friends) did all visit him, within one, two or three dayes before his [Page]end. We are all of us, as we hope (though most unwor­thy) the Ministers of Iesus Christ, who desire to be faithful. And we doe each for our selves seriously protest in the presence of Almighty God, that we never heard any syl­lable from him sounding that way.

Yea, there is one thing more to be added, which may for ever silence all gainesayers (viz.) That one of us through Gods good providence, suspecting what hath since fallen out, and being desirous to prevent such false rumours, within lesse than two dayes before his death, and not many houres before he was speechlesse, asked him to this effect, Whether he had any remorse or disquiet in his minde for any thing hee had written in opposition to the way of Separation, whereto he thus answered, I thanke God I have not any, but I rather take comfort in what I have done, and could have desired (if it had beene the will of God) to have lived a while longer to have given further assistance in that worke. And this question was propounded to him, and the Answer returned by him, not only in the audi­ence of some other of us, but also of sundry other godly friends, who can attest the truth of this relation.

Lastly, We boldly challenge any person to come forth, and to make proofe either by word, or writing, that this our Reverend Brother either repented his paines, or chan­ged his judgement against the way of separation; which if he shall accordingly doe, then will we be content to un­dergoe the severest censures, that are due unto unjust sup­pressors of the truth. But if any failing herein, shall here­after persist to promote either by scattering or crediting the forenamed reports, wee leave them to the judgement of all indifferent men, whether they deserve not to be ac­counted defamers of the dead, and lyars against the truth, if not subtile promoters of their owne cause and course, by pretending falsly the Patronage of their Adversary, when they could not stand before his Arguments.

But in probabilitie some will thus reply to our Apo­logie, [Page]That if your friend did not retract, the more was his sin, and the lesse his honour. Unto whom we returne this answer, That this censure strongly presumes his former discourse in the maine matter to be erroneous and unjusti­fiable, whereas that is the thing still in question, and (as we verily believe) cannot be solidly proved. And though our Reverend Brother be dead, (whom God had extraor­dinarily fitted for disputes of this nature) yet we doubt not but the living Lord wil raise up for himself some other in­struments to maintain the truth which he had undertaken.

There is one thing more (Christian Reader) which we desire thee to take notice of, viz. That whereas it is often reported, that this Authors former booke was fully an­swered, before it passed the Presse, and that therefore fur­ther answer there [...]o cannot bee expected, wee shall relate the truth for thy satisfaction in that particular.

Our worthy Brother, having by Conference (as some of us, and others know) with unshaken strength defended the lawfulnes of set formes of Prayer, he was afterwards by a Le [...]ter, sent from a worthy Gentleman, M. Richard Knightly, requested to state that question, then much in agitation, and to give in some arguments for his person­all setling. Hereupon in the space of one day (the Mes­senger staying for an answer to the letter) he did set down his judgment, with some grounds thereof, and sent them unto his much honoured friend: from whom a copie be­ing procured and conveyed into New England, it seems an Answer was undertaken by a reverend brother there. In the meane time, the number of them increasing who withdrew themselves from our Church Assemblies, be­cause of the Liturgie there used, he was importuned both by Ministers and others from divers parts of this King­dome, to take some further paines in that Controversie. This occasioned the perusall of his former papers, and the examining of those Arguments which he met with­all, either in Printed bookes, Manuscrip s, or the Rela i­on [Page]on of friends, against the use of set forms of prayer in ge­nerall, and of our Common prayer booke particularly. And thus the Embrio biggened, and being ready to be brought forth into the light, an answer unto the first con­ceptions came to the Authors hand, wherein was nothing materiall (as he conceived) but what was answered in the book [...], then about to be licenced: yet by reason of some exceptions in another frame suggested, he judged it suf­cient to annex a few marginall notes unto his booke, as thou mayest observe, page 13.15.24.33. &c. being un­willing in a more open way to reply upon the private an­swer of him, whom he highly prized, and intending (if God had spared life) to have returned more large and par­ticular animadversions to himselfe in private.

The Almighty speedily cast out of his Church all cau­ses of offence, cleare up doubtfull truths unto the hearts of his people, Compound all differences amongst Brethren, make us all of one minde, heart, and way in his worship, that our divisions may no longer dishonour the Gospell, distract the weak conscience, disinable us to do that good we desire, or put weapons into the hands of then, who oppose that reformation, the perfecting whereof our soules long for, through JESUS CHRIST.

  • THOMAS LANGLEY.
  • WILLIAM RATHBAND.
  • SIMEON ASH.
  • FRANCIS WOODCOCK.
  • GEORGE CROSSE.
[...]

An Advertisement to the READER.

THis Booke was divided and sent unto se­verall Presses, that it might the sooner come abroad, yet by reason of the multi­tude of Pamphlets which it met with daily, it hath beene thrusting through the throng for the space of halfe a yeare at least, before it could see the light. In which regard also, it pleades excuse, if in the prin­ting it be not found every way so punctuall, as might be desired.

Farewell.

THE ANSWERS TO THE EPISTLES.

BLessed be the Lord, 2 Thes. 2.8. We see now in good measure; that accomplish­ed which the Apostle foretold, touching the revelation of the man of sinne, and heartily beg the full consuming of him by the brightnesse of Christs comming. But the discoverie of that mysterie of iniquitie, and consu­ming of that monster of abominations, standeth not in se­paration from Christian societies, intirely professing the true faith, worshipping the Lord with that pure worship, which he hath appointed, and holding communion in those ordinances, which God hath blessed to the comfort of thou­sands and ten thousands; even their soules, who with most bitternesse oppose those congregations, if ever they felt sound [Page]comfort indeed. Separation from the true Churches of Christ; his Ministery and worship (of which sort I shall prove that to be by the Word of God, for which I plead) ten­deth not to the overthrow of Antichrist, but to the renting of the Church, the disgrace of Religion, the advance­ment of pride, schisme, contention, the offence of the weak, the griefe of the godly, who be better setled, the hardening of the wicked and the recoverie or rising againe of Anti­christianisme.

They that condemne our Assemblies, Ministerie, and Worship, and voluntarily separate from the preaching of the Word, Prayers, and Sacraments as Antichristian, if in words they doe not maintaine Antichrist, really they doe him more credit than his chiefe upholders. For of ne­cessitie they must confesse, that in Antichristian Churches the intire faith may be purely professed, the doctrine of sal­vation plentifully preached, Ambr. in Luc. l. 6. c. 9. tom. 5. Petra tua Christus est, funda­mentum Ecclesia fi­des est. Si in Petra fueris, in Ecclestae­ris. P [...]ra est Ch i­stus. Hieron. in Psa. 133. Ecclesia ibi est, [...]bi fides vera est. Ec­clesia autem vera il­lic erat vbi fides ve­ra eral, cum haeretici omnes bas ecclesias possidebant, Aug in ep [...]st. Ich. tract. 3. Estautem mater ec­clesia, & uberaejus [...]uo Testamenta divinarum S [...]r. hinc sugatur lac omnium Sacrameatorum pro aeterna salute nostra ge­storum. E [...]n Psalm. 21. Vbicunque timetur Deus & laudatur ibi est ecclesia. Parker. Ep. pub­lished in the prophane Schisme of the Brownists. CAN A stay against straying, answ. §.. 1. p. 44. Mediam tenn [...]e beati. The true and pure worship of God is called grosse idolatry. CAN stay. §. 4. p. 32. Filthy superstition. Id. sect. 1. p. 49. Our assemblies the harlots house. Id. sect. 4. p. 61. The best Preachers are the worst. Id. sect;. 5. p. 76. In Scriptures are said to be Robbers and Thievs, yea spirituall sorcerie is charged upon them. Id. se. 8. p. 87. the seales of the covenant for substance rightly administred, and by the blessing of God upon his owne meanes Christian soules ordinarily converted and nourished unto life eternall, which is much more than all the factors for Antichrist shall ever bee able to make good; and if true, nothing could be [...] to the praise of Antichristianisme. In effect, [...] they lesse, than even persecute the Lord Iesus in his hadst, which they revile in his ordinances, which they dishonour, and in his servants whose footsteps they slander, whose [...] they de­solse, whose office they trample upon with [...] Which if the forward abettors and promoters of this separation did advisedly consider, and take the Lord before them, [Page]they would not furiously brand and abandone that worship and ministerie, which hath the approbation, and carrieth the seale of God. As it is unlawfull to approve that thing which ought to be condemned, so to condemne, what is to bee justified, much more to cast off and reject those godly assemblies, which Christ hath and doth grace with the presence of his grace, as false; and that worship which is tendered to God alone, in the mediation of Iesus Christ according to his will, as idolatry; and that Ministerie which God hath, and daily doth blesse, to the gaining and edifying of soules, unto life everlasting, as Anti­christian.

Humble mindes are afraid of novelties: CAN stay. sect;. 1. p. 48. But this is the greatest noveltie that ever was heard of in the Chur­ches of the Saints. All that we speak we should affirm out of the holy Scriptures, soundly interpreted, and rightly applyed. But this judgement is not of God, is not taught in Scripture, CAN stay. sect. 11 p. 112. In corde animáque credentium ponitur idolum, quando novū dogma constituitur. Hier. in Jer. 32. O­mne dogma contrari­um veritati adorat e­pera manuum suarū, & constituit idola in terrá suâ. Hier. in Isa. 2. Ne sit [...]s mul [...]e Magistri dissenti [...]n­tes a doctrinâ uni [...] Magistri Christi. Au­gust. l. 1. Retract. A Stay sect;. 1. pag. 47. Quicquid pariter o­mnes uno eodemque consensu, &c. Vin­cent. Lyrinen. cont. proph haeret c 4. Field of the Ch. l. 3 [...] 43. p. 175. is not consonant to the doctrine of Christ, our only Master, as in the examination of parti­culars shall be shewed? If it bee a great sinne to be rash and adventurous, upon opinions in matters of Religion, where men are not first well informed in judgement by true grounds of knowledge: What is it to condemne the Churches, Ministery, Worship and Servants of the Lord Iesus, against the expresse Sentence of our heavenly Ma­ster and Teacher? If an Idoll be set up in the Church, when a new Opinion is broached ( as some cite it out of Hierom) they of the Separation upon tryall will be found the strangest Idoll makers in the world, because they have broached the strangest noveltie that ever was maintained in the Church.

Such as lay downe rules (saith the author of the Stay) to find out the truth by, write thus; What the Fathers all with one consent have held and written, is a necessarie token to know the truth by. And what­soever hath been holden at all times and in all places by all [Page]Christians, that have not beene noted for noveltie, singu­laritie and division, is to bee received as the undoubted truth of God. If these assertions be true, then is this con­demnatorie sentence most unjust and untrue. For not only all old writers generally, but the most learned of later times; yea and all sects and sorts of people professing Chri­stianitie (themselves excepted) are against it.

Therefore did they consider the terrour of the Lord, CAN stay, sect. 1 p. 8. and that great day in which the Lord Iesus shall appeare in the brightnesse of his Father, to avenge the quarrell of his least Commandement, and to judge the wrongs, Gregorie to John the Bishop of Con­stantinople saith thus Tu q [...] Christo uni­versali, ecclesic capi­ti, in extr [...]mi judicii d [...]cturus es examine; qui cuactacjus mem­bra tibimet conarts u­niversalis appellatione supponere. CAN stay against straying, sect 1. p. 8 Parker of the crosse part 2. c. 9. sect; 2. I may well com­pare some of un­bridled spirits to the Flaccians, whose intemperate furie, made Erne­stus to deale the more hardly with the Protestants, out of a fear they were all of the same spi­rit, and would in the end procure like mischiefe. Am. Polan. in Dan. c. 9. injuries and reproaches, which are cast upon his Church and Saints, ordinances and worship, they would not speake evill of what they know not, revile his heritage, despise his worship, condemn the righteous, vilifie the or­dinances of grace, abuse Scriptures, misalledge Authors, cause divisions and schismes, in the Churches of God, di­stract the minaes of some, obstinate others, and expose re­ligion it selfe to contempt. Let mee speake to them as the great est zealot in that cause at this day, speaketh to his op­posite in a cause of lesse importance. When God ariseth up what will they answer him? what will they say, when hee shall not onely charge them, that they have made a rent in the Church, brought an evill report upon his ordinances, spoken contemptuously of that which he appro­ved, yea commanded, and perverted his word for that end and purpose: But also that they have laboured with might and maine to draw others into the same transgression, by meanes whereof his name is blasphemed, the weake scanda­lized, the godly made sad, and that which was halting quite turned aside?

If it be sure, that a more grievous punishment is re­served for them that cause others to offend, than for them which doe such things themselves, let the advi­ser weigh seriously, whether it doth not concerne himselfe, [Page]as much as any other, to tremble and stand in awe.

It is a vaine boast, that at this day there are few, CAN say. Epis [...] to the Reader. The judgment and practice of some men of speciall ac­count in the Church of God, have to this day held this impressi­on in me, that I e­steem the Ca­ptaines and Anci­ent-bearers of this schisme, unworthy the honour of any set conflict and publike confutati­on. S. B. the rai­sing of the founda­tion of Browne. Ep. to the Christi­an Reader. CAN Neces. of separa. Epist. to the Reader. Galschill to Martial Epist. Omnia invali­da nihilo sunt aequi [...] paranda. if any, except Formalists and Familists, and men of corrupt mindes, who suppose that gaine is Godlines, that will appeare in defence of our parish Churches Ministerie and Worship. For the professors (as he is pleased to stile them) are of the same judgement, touching those things that formerly they have beene of, and stand ready by the Scriptures to prove their godly congregations, to be the true Churches of Iesus Christ, and their worship to be of his holy institution. If of later times they have beene silent in these matters, it is not because they are better informed; or that they see and acknowledge their worship and Ministery to be fals and idolatrous: but they would not spend good houres in vaine, seeing what soever was written in this kinde had beene learnedly and sufficiently answered, not with reproaches, taunts, and boastings as is suggested, but with solid proofe out of the booke of God. Christian Religion teacheth men to occupie themselves otherwise, than to mispend their time in answering that, which in the eares of all indif­ferent men carryeth a sufficient confutation with it, or is sufficiently confuted already: specially when experi­ence had lessoned them, that they must deale with such as will overcome by peremptory censuring, when weight of reason is wanting to them.

Neverthelesse, If not, reply if they please and when they will. CAN stay. Epist. When the undertakers have finished their answer, and [...]ast. Dav. published his many things that he hath to say against it. Id, sect. 4. p. 36. least overmuch silence should be inter­preted consent, or beget too great confidence in men, of the goodnesse of their cause, and others should stumble at their vaunts, as if none durst, because they doe not undertake their answer, I am purposed by the grace of God to examine the grounds and arguments, whereby they would perswade the Necessitie of Separation from our Assemblies, and from the worship of God performed amongst us.

Sundry things M. Canne requesteth of him that [Page]shall undertake to read and answer his bookes, CAN stay. epistle to the Reader. 1 That when he setteth himselfe to read hee should set him­self as in Gods presence, and look on with a single and unpartiall eye. 2 That he live by his owne faith, and build not upon another mans fancie. 3. That he de­nie himself and be contented to be guided by God a­lone. 4. That for a particular faile hee doe not con­demne the whole. 5. That hee change not the state of the Question. 6. That he may finde plaine dealing, Id. Stay. sect. 1. p. 2.4.5. Sanctis Scripturis non loquentibus quis loquitur, Amb. de vocat. Gent. tom. 2. l. 2. c. 3. Omne quod loquimur debemus [...]ffi mare de Scriptu­ris sanctis, Hier. in Psal 98. tom. 8. Ni­hil ultra quamsacris literis proditum est definiendum, Erasm. in Hilar. Solum Dei verbum certum, cae­tera falsa si d [...]ssenti­ant. Fer. ad Rom. c. 3. p. 303. CAN stay. sect. 4. p. 32. & sect. 1. p. 44. and what is brought against him, be read out of the Prophets or Psalmes, the Law or Gospell.

Whether these conditions be observed by the Author him­selfe in his writings, let the indifferent judge, as namely, whether passages of Scripture be truly alledged, Authors rightly quoted, arguments plainly propounded, conclusions soundly drawne, his adversaries ingenuously dealt withall? Whether in writing he set himselfe in the presence of God, and weigh in the Ballance of the Sanctuarie what he com­mendeth unto his Reader? Whether he censure not before he make proofe by Scripture, and rather insult over his ad­versaries with insolent and reproachfull tearmes, than con­fute their grounds with substantiall reasons? and whiles he commendeth plaine dealing, simplicitie and integritie, he doe not play the jugler, who pretends plainnesse, that he might beguile and deceive the sooner.

For when he makes semblance of zeale for the puritie of religion, CAN stay. Epist: to the Reader. CAN Neces. of separation. Epist. to the Reader. wisheth tendernesse of conscience to his Reader, ever and anon objecteth to his [...]pposites what abominations and vile corruptions they labour to justifie, which formerly they condemned, beareth in hand that the Scriptures speak expresly for him, and the learned of all sorts ancient and moderne, who would not expect faire cariage and honest dealing? whereas, let the whole frame of his writings be looked into, with a single heart and unpartiall eye, and it will be found wery corrupt, loose, deceitfull for the matter, [Page]and stuffed with scorne, reproach, slander, insolency, and fal­sifications for the manner. Herein whether I speake the words of truth and sobernesse, let the Reader search, and then give sentence.

But for mine owne part I desire to answer in the feare of God, and not to strive with him in the like measure of sinning. A good cause needs no such tricks of wit, but as it is of God, so it is able to maintaine and defend it self, and the more sincerely it is propounded, the more it will prevaile. In controversies, if men will keepe a good con­science, their zeale must be tempered with wisedome, truth, and meeknesse of spirit, they must speake as in Gods pre­sence, give the right sense of Scripture, and make fit ap­plication of it, seeke the truth in love, and that victorie alone which truth will carrie. According to the mea­sure of grace received from God, I shall desire to walke within these bounds and with this resolution I come to compare cause with cause, and reason with reason. Let the Scriptures be the only judge betweene us, upon which all Aug. Epist. 48. Audi quid dicit Do­minus, non quid di­cit Donatus, &c. Et de Pastor. ca. 4. Ego vocem Pastoris re­quir [...], lege de Psalmo &c. Hieron. in Mat. 23. Quod ex Scriptura non habet authoritatem, &c. Basil. de vera fide, Nos omnem a Dominica doctrina alienam & vocem, & sententiam fugiamus. Chr. in 2 Cor. hom. 13. Obsecro & oro omnes vos, ut relinquatis quid huic vel illi videatur, & de his scri­pturis haec omnia inquirite. Ambr. tom. 3. lib. 5. epist. 31. Caeli mysterium doceat me Deus ipse, non homo qui seipsum ignoravit. Petrus de Aliaco praec. Gerson. Nullum principis edictum, aut ecclesiae decretum est justum, nisi sit Divinae legi consonum. Novum Testamentum est malleus, qui uni­versas haereses interimit, est velut lucerna lumen exhibens, recurrendum est ad folas Scripturas ut ae­te [...]nam salutem adipiscamur. conclusions in Divinitie, if sound, are grounded, where­by all distinctions, if true, are warranted. After the voice of God in Scripture, the determinations and pra­ctices of our Guides, who are no Mat. 11.8. Luc. 7.14. 1 Reg. 14.15. sc. calamus arundincus, non aromaticus s [...] men­sorius. CAN stay. answ. sect. 1. p. 47. Howsoever we must live by our owne faith, not­withstanding, wee are not lightly to esteeme of the determinations and practices of our Guides, specially when we know they are no reedes, but men stable and unchangeable in the truth. Bilson Christian subject part 2. pag. 351. Many Bishops have taught lyes, and and seduced Prin­ces in the Church of God: and ther­fore not their dig­nitie but their do­ctrine is it that princes must regard: for neither prince nor people stand bound to the per­sons of men, but unto the truth of God, and unto their teachers, so long as they swerve not from the truth. Id. Absolute judge of truth, neither prince nor priest may challenge to be, for God is truth; and of God I trust no man may bee judge. The sonne of God saith of himselfe, I am truth, &c. Angust. de nuptiis, ad Valentin. l. 2. cap. 33. Optat. lib. 5. ad Parmenian. And, page 351. Only God is to limit and appoint by his word, what shalt stand for truth and what for errour &c. And as Bishops ought to discerne which is the truth before they teach, so must the people discerne who teacheth right, before they believe. Idem page. 355. As the pastors have authoritie from Christ to preach the truth, and woe be to them that resist the preachers of truth, so have all hearers both libertie to discerne, and a charge to beware of seducers, given them by the same Lord, and woe be to them that doe it not. reeds, but men sta­ble in the truth shall be produced, for they are not light­ly to be esteemed, though their consent cannot bee the ground of Divine faith and assurance.

The Lord in mercie give us to know the things which concerne our peace, comfort and salvation, and make us wise to walke in all pleasing before him.

CHAP. I.

THe Question betwixt us is, Whether by the Scriptures, and principles of the Nonconformists, The state of the Question. Separation from the Church of England be necessary or lawfull? Those that hold it law­full to be present at the preaching of the Word, but not to partake in the prayers of the Congregations, nor to be present at the Sacraments there administred, I leave to their owne defence: The necessity or lawfullnesse of Separa­tion is that which I deny.

Neither is it here questioned, CAN. Necessit. of Separ. Epist. to the Reader. Whether the principles of the Nonconformists be true and justifiable, but whether the necessity or lawfulnesse of separation can truly, and justly, be inferred and concluded from them. This Position therefore I lay downe, as directly contrary to the other; That separation from the pray­ers, Sacraments, and preaching of the Word of God in the congregations and assemblies of the Church of England, is unlawful by the Scriptures, & that whatsoever complaints (whether just or unjust) the Nonconformists, judicious, learned and holy, have made of the corruptions in our Church government, Ministerie, Worship, Prayers, Admi­nistration of the Sacrament, and people, received, or per­mitted as externall members, they doe not inferre, either in their judgements, or in truth, a necessitie or lawfulnesse of Separation from our Churches, as no true Churches of Christ, our Ministerie as false and Antichristian, our Worship as Idola­try. [Page 2]And therefore, I shall shall hope, such as have separated unadvisedly, if men of tender hearts, they will repent of their rashnesse, seeing the grounds where upon they build are rotten, the building ruinous, and the practice di­rectly tending to the scandall of Religion, and discom­fort of their soules. And now I proceed in the feare of God, by the beames of Truth, to try and examine what is objected, to shew the necessitie of Separation from the Non­conformists principles.

SEC. I.

TO Communicate in a false Ministerie, CAN. Neces. of Separat ca. 1. S. 3 pag. 26, 27. The Church acts of Anti­christian Mini­sters, are Ido­latious. Id. Stay. sect. 1. pag. 5. & s. 4. p. 28. Id. Stay. Answ s. 5 pag. 66. Mat. 24.5.24. Hos. 4 17. See Jun. on the the place. See Stay against straying s. 13. p. 124. 125. Iere. 23.6. Prov. 5.3. Mat. 7.15. Ioh 104, 5. Phil. 3 2. See Stay a­gainst, Sect. 12. pag. 116, 117, 118, 119. & s [...]. p. 112, 113 Ioh 4.23. Rom. 12.12. Numb. 16. Isal. 50.18. 1 Tim. 5.22. [...] against Stray. sect 6 pag. 81.82. & sect. 13. pag. 89. Matth. 28.19, 20. Luk. 10.16. [...] The [...] 2.2, 3, 4. Revel. 13 & 14 9 12. & 18.4. is certainly a breach of the Second Commandement; For what doe they, but in­deed set up an Idoll, yea and bow downe unto it, who serve God in, and by a devised and usurped Ministery. In Song 1.7, 8. The faith­full entreat Christ to be shewed where he by his Ministery, with his Spirit, Word, Seales, Censures, &c. feedeth his Flock, that there they might place themselves for Instruction and Government, and not turn aside to the flocks of his companions, that is, the congre­gations of false Christs, and false Prophets, which came in his Name, saying, I am Christ, and deceive many. Againe, E­phraim is joyned to Idolls; What were they? among others, they were Priests which Jeroboam ordained for the high Places: What follows? let him alone, that is, have no communion with him, either in his false Ministery, or other Idolatry. Often doe the Prophets, Christ, and his Apostles, forbid men to heare those, which thrust themselves into ministeriall offices, not being sent of God, and from the Church. To communicate in a false ministe­rie, is to doe a vaine worship; and therefore unacceptable altoge­ther unto the Lord. In this men doe abet the party in his sin, and so make it their owne by imputation, and inwrap themselves in the same guilt with the offender. God hath promised no blessing to his Word, but in his own Ordinance, though I confesse he may, yea, and doth grant oft times that, through his infinite Godnesse, which no man can challenge by an ordinary promise. To doe other­wise, is to rebell grievously against the Lord, and to uphold, what in us lyeth, that which the Lord will consume: therefore, as no good Subject should assist or communicate with any person in the [Page 3]administration of civill justice to the Kings Subjects (no al­though he administer the same never so legally, justly, impartially) except the same person had a commission from the King so to doe: so neither ought the Subjects of Christs Kingdome, A dumb M [...] ­ster [...]e being unlawfull and false is to be separated from, their Ministers for the greatest part, are dumb Ministers C [...] Necess. of Separ. pag. 42. to partake with any person whatsoever in the dispensation of any Spirituall ordinance (though in it selfe never so holy) without sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and Soveraigne King of his Church, Christ Jesus. Such as have spirituall communion in a false Ministery, doe embrace the bosome of a stran­ger, and so commit spirituall whoredome against the Lord. Christ setteth it downe as a propertie of his sheep to be observed, that they follow not strangers, but flie from them, for that they know not their voice.

ANSWER.

THis Reason is grounded upon the complaint which Non­conformists make of some great abuses in the Ministery: but in them it is not to be understood of all Ministers, Where are the words, or what be they, that condemne all the Mini­sters for some? that say all Ministers are unlawfully ad­mitted, for some? or that there is none good, because some are bad? If there be no words, that carry with them any such sense, then you do wrong to your bre­thren. The Lord blesse and encrease an hundred fold the godly, wise, learned, grave Ministers of this Church. T. C. repl. 1. pag. 25. And so others in their complaints, are to be understood. Nolo autem [...] quis existimet per ea, quae ecclesiasticorum permissa sunt, me omnes prorsus ecclesiasticos, nullo excep­to, compreh [...]ndere velle. Nic. Clem. Specul. Eccles. nor to inferre a nullitie of the Ministery. It is nor to be understood of all Ministers, for amongst them there be many learned, wise, godly and painfull, as the truth is, and they acknowledge, du­ly called and approved, whose Ministerie God hath sealed, and blessed. It doth not inferre, a nullitie of the Ministerie of o­thers: for even the idle, unlearned, scandalous, being in the roome of Ministers, are Ministers to others, though not to them­selves, and their Ministery, so long as they Minister the things of God, is effectuall to the people of God. If then your mean­ing be, that the whole Ministery of the Church of Eng­land is false, impure, unlawfull, according to the principles, and complaints of the Nonconformists, it is notorious: If that the Ministerie of the Church of England in generall is a nullitie, by reason of some maims and defects found therein, which they desire might be redressed, in that also you doe them apparant wrong.

In the Proposition, as it is set down, that we may under­stand the sense thereof, two things are to be considered. [Page 4]1. What is meant by a false Ministerie. 2. What it is to com­municate in a false Ministerie.

In plaine and distinct dealing, a false Ministery is not to be confounded with a maymed, defective, or impure Ministery, for as the Gospel may be preached truly when it is taught impurely, so may the Ministery be true for substance, when it is impure in some respects. But seeing in your language, eve­ry unlearned, scandalous, negligent Minister, is a false Minister, and the Ministerie which he executeth, is a false Ministery; therefore to omit further contestation about the word, It must be noted, That a false Ministery is twofold. 1. Abso­lute, viz. such as is no wayes appointed of God, in respect of the substance of the office, whereunto he is set apart, as if a Minister be called to preach pernicious and damnable doctrine, or to offer Sacrifice propitiatory for quick and dead, and this Ministery is a meere nullitie. 2 Comparative, or in some re­spect, as that which is maymed in the qualities, or care of the party chosen; or designed, as if a man unlearned, scandalous, idle be chosen; if he feed not the flock, or teach without po­wer and authoritie. And this Ministery is defective, but of force and efficacy to the people of God: for substance, it is of God, for the good of his flock, and what is done in the administrati­on is done by the authoritie of God, but the persons them­selves, if in no measure qualified, are not allowed and appro­ved of God.

The second phrase, To communicate in the false Mini­stery, may import two things. First, to communicate in the sinnes of the Ministery, Iniqua lex est quae se examma­ri non patuur. Tert. in A [...]ol. Non tam vi co­gere homines ad obsequium, quam ratione persua­dere debenteae leges, quae scribuntur a pio nomotheta. Dan polit. Christ. lib. 5. cap. 3. Course of confor. pag. 149. Gratian. Decr. 1. dist. 12. cap. 1. Bilson Christ. Subject. par. 2. p. 353. 354. Quo­modo vero discedimus ab impi [...]s hominibus? Morum dissimilitudine. Si ab ipsis corpore divelli pos­sumus, & nos ad meliores conferre, onmino debemus: sed saep [...] fit, ut velis nolis, in medio imp [...]o­rum [...]e ve [...]sari oporteat: caveas igilur ab eorum stud [...]is & operibus, ut Deus tecum loquatur. Lavat. in Eack. cap. 3. Hom. 11. and this is altogether unlawfull. For Gods people, when the matter commeth to their practice, must have the judgement of discretion (and further they crave not) the judgement, I say, of discretion to try the Spirits, whether they be of God or not. And in case the Church, whe­ther of ignorance or contention, or a man-pleasing humour, deter­mine in doctrine against the Word, or in ceremonie against the [Page 5]generall Rules, their duty is to obey God, rather than man. But the sinnes of the Minister, or other part of the Congregation, shall not be imputed to him, who doth only communicate in the ordinances of worship. 2 To communicate in a false Mini­sterie, may import, to communicate in the ordinances of wor­ship with them, whose calling is not in every respect approved of God: and this is lawfull.

If then the sense of this reason be, That our Ministerie is abso­lutely false, or a meere nullitie, it cannot be made good by Scripture grounds, or Non-conformists principles, but the contrary is most evident. And he that shall undertake to prove such a desperate Proposition, must grant that there was neither Church or Sacrament, nor Ministerie in the world for many hundred yeers past, if he finde not just cause to question his owne Christendome. But if the meaning be, that it is not law­full to communicate in the worship of God, with Ministers not fitly qualified, disorderly called, or carelesly executing their office and function, then it is directly crosse to the Word of truth, sound reason, and consent of all the learned.

If you demand, as you doe of your Pistoler, Where I pray you, doe you read in the Scriptures of two kinds of Antichristian churches? speak out man: shew us the place, the chap­te [...] and the verse: ingenu­ous dealing re­quires it. Stay, sect. 3. pag 20. Isa. 56 10 11.12. Jer. 8 8.9, 10.11 M [...]c 3.11. Mal. 2.8. Ezek 44.7, 8, 9, 10. See Iun. annot in loc. L water ibid. M.c. 3.11. Jerem. 5.31. 1 Sam. 2.12, 15, 16, 17, 25. 1 Sam. 1.1, 2, 3 I [...]h. 2 16. See Constant. Emperor Com [...]in Misn where wee read in Scripture of these two kinds of false Ministers, and communica­ting with either in the ordinances of worship, we will shew you the place, the chapter and the verse.

When the Priests were dumb dogs, that could not bark, and greedy dogs, that could never have enough, was their Ministerie true or false, were they qualified, as becomes the Ministers of the Lord of hoasts or no? The strangers and uncircumci­sed, which were set to take the charge of the Lords Sanctuary; were they true Ministers, or false? When the Priests taught for hire, and the Prophets prophesied for money; when the [...]ro­phets prophesied lies, and the Priests bare rule by their means; Was their Ministery true or false? Were the Sonnes of Eli true or false Ministers? qualifyed as becommeth the servants of God, they were not, but the function which they executed, was of God. When the Priests bought and sold Doves in the Temple, or took upon them to provide Doves, or such like things for them that were to offer, was their Ministerie, true or false? Did they that whereunto they were appointed of [Page 6]God or noe? Matth 5.20.21 22. &c. Matth. 15.3, 4, 5. Matth. 23.13.15. When the Scribes and Pharisees corrupted the Law by false glosses, taught for doctrines mens precepts, made the Commandement of God of none effect by their traditions, shut up the Kingdome of heaven before men, neither going in them­selves, nor suffering them that would, making those of their pro­fession twofold more the children of hell than themselves: When they taught Justification by works, and perfect obedience to the whole law, and denied in Christ, both the Person and office of the Messiah, blaspheming him in his doctrine, as a deceiver of the people; Matth. 12.24. Luk 7 30. Joh. 7.32. Matth. 21.45, 36. in his life, as a glutton and wine-drinker; in his glorious miracles, as one that wrought them by the Devill; and when they hated to be reformed, was their Ministerie true or false? were they called of God, or did they thrust in themselves before they were sent? If their Ministe­rie was true, then an ignorant, Idoll, profane, idle Ministerie, which despiseth knowledge, opposeth Godlinesse, prophaneth the holy things of God, corrupteth the Law, polluteth the worship, strengtheneth the hands of the wicked, and lead­eth the blinde out of the way, may be a true and lawfull Mini­sterie of God.

It is besides the marke here to answer, that the Scribes and Pha­risees did neither minister to any but the Lords people, nor in an un­lawful place, nor by an unlawful entrance: For the Question now is of their Ministerie, & the qualification of their persons to the office, which they took upon them, Whether such a Ministerie as theirs was to be approved of God, and such Persons to be chosen, or continued in their standing. For be their out­ward calling what it will, and the people to whom they admi­nister, as they may; if the Ministerie be not of God, if the persons be not qualified as God requireth, if they execute not their office for God, according to his will revealed, and the good of his people, but against God; according to their owne corrupt immaginations, and to the griefe of the godly, their standing in that place and roome, without question, is not of Gods approbation, nor their calling lawfull. It might be ad­ded, Num 8 9, 10. L [...]. 8.3. that though the tribe of Levi onely was used to the Mini­sterie, yet all that tribe was not applyed that wayes, nor those at all adventure, but by choice, according to their abilities. And therefore, if the Pharisees were not fitted in some mea­sure for their office, the choice was not by approbation from God, nor their entrance lawfull.

If then their Ministerie was false, either it was unlawfull to communicate with them in the ordinances of worship, Matth. 8.4. Luk. 17.14. Io. 18.20. Luk. 22.53. which is directly crosse to Scripture, the examples of the Prophets, our Saviour, his Apostles, and all the faithfull; or to com­municate with, or in a false Ministerie, is not a breach of the second Commandement.

They that preached Christ of envie, Phil. 1.15. St Paul. to the Philip. is glad that the Go­spel is preach­ed although it be not purely, but he would never have been glad, if it should have been preached falsly, or not truly, &c. the want of a good calling, may give occa­sion to say, that the Word of God is not sin­cerely taught, because there is not a lawfull & ordinary cal­ling: l. C. repl. 1 pag. 28. to adde affliction to Pauls bands, were they true Ministers or false? What soever you will say, to heare them preach Christ, was no breach of the se­cond Commandement. If in some respects they were true and false both, then the Ministerie is not absolutely false, which in some considerations is not pure, as it ought, and is to be de­sired; then the Ministerie may be true in one respect, and false in another; then also it is no sinne to communicate with, or in a false Ministerie, so far, to wit, as it hath truth, and doth carry the stampe of God, so farre as the faithfull are allowed to desire, and they have authoritie (though not approbation) from God, to dispence his ordinances.

An ignorant Minister is an Idoll, having eyes when he seeth not, and so is a scandalous idle Minister, yea an Hypocrite, and hollow-hearted Minister, having only the outside of a Minister, but wanting the life and soule, the approbation and allowance of God. But the faithfull doe neither bow downe unto an Jdoll, nor set up an Idoll to themselves, who seeke and desire the ordi­nances of grace from their hands, unto whom God in his Pro­vidence hath committed the dispensation of holy things, for the good of his people, though not for the profit of themselves. Who is blinde, but my servant? to wit, Jsrael, which should have most light, because of my law: or deafe as my Messenger that I sent? The Priests and Levites whom I sent to teach the peo­ple. The Idoll Shepheard, the Lord calleth his Shepheard, Isa 42.19, 20. Sept. [...]. See J [...]n [...] an­not. in loc: P [...]sc. schol. ibid. Zach. 11.17. Tarnov: in loc. Rutgers: [...]: Metaph. ca [...]de B [...]n [...]t: pag. 175. not because he doth the will of the Lord, but he is sent of God to the people, who by just means doth revenge the impietie of men. He entereth sinfully, that is never so well able to teach, if either he live profanely, or teach corruptly, or be altogether re­misse in his office; when yet to heare him once being in of­fice, and well gifted, was never deemed an humane inven­tion. Somtimes it doth so fall out, that to avoide some great [Page 8]hurt or danger, or for some other end, some things may law­fully and ordinarily be intended, which without such peculiar circumstances, whereby evill is separated from them, would be unlawfull. And though it be unlawfull to choose such a Mini­ster, or to have private familiar societie with such a scandalous person, yet it is lawfull to joyne in the ordinances of grace, because God hath called us thereunto, and so ordained.

An ignorant or scandalous Minister is given in judgement, So Tyrants reigne by Gods Providence, but not by his approbation. Hos. 8.4. Tert. apol cap. 30. & ad Scapul. cap: 5. Orig. in lab. Ind. hom. 4 Cyp. epist 55. & 68. Hos 13.11. See Deodat. annot. Itali ia loc. Origen Hom 4, in Iud. Aug. contr. epist. Parm. lib. 2. cap. 4. Chrysost. Hom. post. in Hebr. Steut ergo [...]lum pia crant sacrifi­ca secund. legem, quimvis ab im­pus sacerdoribus celeb ata, Ier. 3.14. Si pia res est imperium, quam­vis ab impio te­neatur. Grot. de jure belli & pa­cit. l. 1. ca. 2. Gratia [...] decret. par. 3 de consec. d [...]st. 4. cap. 25.26, 27. 39. Hos. 4.5, 6 T. Crepi. 3. pag. 13. Admonit. pag 47. CAN. ne essit. of Se­pa [...]a [...]. pag. 41. Z [...]ch in Hos 4.6. Rivet. in Hos. 4.6. Etsi ab hommib es non repellantur, ne sacer­dotis extrinse us in Ecclesia sungantur. but so, as God remembreth mercy for his, which he will reach forth by them. If God set Tyrants over a people in wrath, may not the Righteous seek protection under them, or receive right by their government. God takes no pleasure in an ungodly Minister, but he is pleased to place them here and there, that the children of blessing might receive by their Ministerie, what the Lord hath promised, and knoweth to be expedient for them. The Church-acts of ungodly Ministers, are to them­selves unprofitable, and in them sinfull, abominable, but to the Congregation, they may be profitable, effectuall, acceptable, as they are done for them, not without some calling, by Provi­dence of God, and authoritie from God.

The Pastors according to Gods owne heart, whom he gives, of his matrimoniall love, and speciall favour, are furnished with the gifts of knowledge and holinesse: but others are called of God, not without his over-ruling stroke in that which is done by men. The Lord threatens to reject them, who despise knowledge, that they shall be no Priests unto him: But this threat­ning is not a present degradation, or turning them out of of­fice, disinabling them in that they could doe, and making all their acts void, but a menace of future evill in Gods time, for that they ought to have done, but did not. And even from this cōmination it will follow, That if Ministers who despise know­ledge and understanding, be permitted, by such as have power to cast them out, but doe not; they retaine their power and authoritie still, for the good of the faithfull, untill God be plea­sed to cast them off, and turne them out of office, though their function be not pleasing unto God.

Ephraim (saith the Prophet) is joyned to Idols; that is, Hos. 4.17. Sept. [...]. [...]un. Conjunctus [...], id est, tra [...]fuget a Deo vero ad falsos: River. [...] adhae­rens, affixus est Idolis, conjun­ctus aut alliga­tus est. Sept. [...]. lun. sine illum, [...]. c. ti [...] ­o Ichuda [...] cum illo [...] ne cito, Riv. 1. nihi t [...]ke cum illo comu [...] ne [...]ta. Tarnov. Nihil quiequam tibi cum [...] sit commer. j. Ab [...] Ne argu [...] eu [...] quispiam. Hos. 4.15. Sept. [...]. Al. [...]. Aqui. [...], Sym. [...]. Hoca. Aq. & Sym. Interpretati sunt [...]. i. e. domum in­utilem, ut Hier. abserva. Com. in Hos. ca. 4. ac ipse tis assenti­ens, adjungit Bethel appella­tam esse Betha­ven, i. e. domum inutilem, ut quae nihil prosi [...], sive domum Idol, ob vitulos in ea positos. Rai­nold. de Idolat. lib. 2. ca. 4. §. 5. Ier. 13.1. Song. 1.7.8. The word may be read, as one that covereth her self as an harlot. Gen. 38.14, 15. M [...]er. or in Cant. 1.7. Or as one that covereth her self in mournin [...] [...]v. 13.4, 5. Mic. 3.7. Bright in Lo [...]. Sept. [...] Sym. [...]. hath left the true God, and followeth false Gods, or Idols; he is glued, and sticketh fast unto them, that he will not be pulled away: Let him alone, that is, Have no fellowship or commu­nion with him in his Idolatrie. But that which is truly alledg­ed against communion with Idolaters in their Idolatry, or false worship, is unjustly wrested against communion with a true Christian Church, in the holy things of God. The faithfull must not enter into Gilgal, nor goe up to Bethaven, though the Priests that there sacrificed, were of the Tribe of Levi, because Ido­latry was there committed, the Office or Service there perfor­med, was directly contrary to Gods Commandement. But they were bound to goe up to Ierusalem, though the Priests there Ministering had entred unlawfully, and executed their Offices corruptly: because God had appointed they should ap­peare before him in that place, and the Service there tendred was of the Lord, and by his appointment, though the Priests were ignorant, proud, profane, covetous, or the like.

The Faithfull entreate Christ, To shew them where he feedeth his flock; that they might not turne aside (if the words will beare that interpretation) to the flocks of his companions, that is, the Congregations of false Christs, and false Prophets. That which you adde, by his Ministerie with his Spirit, Word, Seales, and Censures: And that there they might place themselves for instruction and government, is not found in the Text, and may be received or refused, as it is understood. If your meaning be, that Christ by these means doth feed or rule his Flock, it will easily be granted. If it be this, That no Christian may lawful­ly sit downe in any congregation, where any one of these is wanting, or not executed in all points as it ought; you speak of your selfe, and not by the warrant of Gods Word. For where Christ doth feed his flock, there may the Saints of God communicate, in the ordinances of Grace and Religion, though some be wanting, or not so purely performed in all [Page 10]points as they ought; though the Minister in some particular enter not as he ought, or be not qualified as the Word requi­reth.

It is one thing to sacrifice at Bethel, Deut. 12.5. Ho. 4.15. [...]o. 4.4. & 5.5. 2 Cron 15.3. & 11 12, 14, 15, 16. & 13.9, 10.11, 12. which God hath strait­ly forbidden, where is neither God, Priest nor Law; another to worship God according to his owne appointment, though the Minister be not such as he ought. I wonder, if men doe not tremble thus to abuse and misalledge the holy Scri­pture.

Often doe the Prophets, Jere. 23.9. Matth 7.15. Christ, and his Apostles (you say) for­bid men to heare those which thrust themselves into ministeriall offices, not being sent of God, and from the Church. This last clause, And from the Church, is your glosse, but not found in the Texts of Scripture quoted by you. Perhaps you would cunningly insinuate, That all Ministers not called by the Church or particular Congregation, where they are to admini­ster, be false Prophets. But this is to begge what you shall ne­ver be able to prove, not to make proofe of that which is que­stioned. Bilson. Christ. Subject. part [...] p. 367. The Lord when he saith, Beware of false Pro­phets, noteth there shall be Prophets by their calling, which shall be found false by their reaching, as S Peter also witnesseth. Pet. 2.1, 2. distin­guished from Godly Teach­ers, not by office, but by do­ctrine. Ier. 21.14. v 26 Iere. 11.14, 15. v. 21. Iere 6 14 & 8.11. Ier. 23.25 v. 26. v. 32. Ezek. 13.2, 3.6, 7. 2 Pet. 2.1, 2. Most certaine it is, the Prophets, Christ and his Apo­stles doe all warne us to beware of false Prophets? But who are false Prophets? They who are not chosen, called and or­dained by the communitie of the faithfull, where they are to Administer? No; or they whose outward calling in the Church, is somewhat defective and disordered, nay corrupt and sinfull? Not so neither. But they are false Prophets, who walke with falshood, and strengthen the hands of the wicked, that they might not returne from their wickednesse, who speak the visi­on of their owne hearts, not from the mouth of the Lord. Who say to them that despise the Lord, yee shall have peace, who run when they were not sent, and prophesied when God spake not unto them. Who prophesie false things in the Name of the Lord, the deceit of their heart, and thinke to make the people forget the Name of the Lord, and seduce the people with their lies: Who prophesie out of their owne hearts, and follow their owne spirit. The Apostle describes them to be false Prophets, who bring in damnable doctrines, contrary to the doctrine of salvation, which we have received, and denying the Lord that bought them. But this cannot be applied to them, [Page 11]who preach the Truth of the Gospel intirely, Of false B [...]e thren, see Gal. 2.4. 2 Cor. 11.26 With Here­ticks and Apo­states, be they Princes or p [...]i­vate men, no Ch [...]istian Pa­stor or people may Commu­nicate. Bilson Christ. Subj. part. 3 p. 78. Infidells be without the Church, of their owne ac­cord, and He­reticks be put out. Idem. 79. Matth 7.15. Bevvare of false Prophets. Assentior Chry­sostomo qui poshemam vo­ [...]em non de hae­reti is sed de iit acripit qui vulge [...] no [...]l­ne dicebantur Tales autem es [...]è ut, qui corrup­ [...]am vitam specie vi [...] & larva [...]eg [...]. Lucas ni sallor eosdem a [...]t inn [...]es [...], l [...]k 20.20. Hers. re [...] sa [...]. [...]. [...] [...]. dispence the ho­ly things of God, according as they have received authoritie from God, and labour to winne men from sinne unto God, though in the entrance into their office, or in the execution thereof, there be somewhat erroneous, faulty and of men. Con­sider then how loosely the Premises of the Scripture, and your conclusion hang together: Wee must not joyne our selves to Congregations or Assemblies that are without Christ, so the Scripture: We must forsake Churches, and Congregations of Christ: this is your conclusion. They must be forsaken that refuse the Covenant, and worship strange Gods, so the Scriptures: Wee must forsake them who have received the Covenant, and worship the true God in the mediation of Jesus Christ, because they observe it imperfectly, thus you must conclude, or you fay nothing to the pur­pose.

If Prophets in the Old Testament had an ordinary outward calling, the false Prophets might have a lawfull externall cal­ling, as well as the true, and then God saith, He sent them not, because they preached the vision of their own heart, lying and deceitfull words, to strengthen the hands of the wicked, and not the words of Truth, to turne men from sinne. They were not called of God, because the work they went about, was not the Lords, but their owne. But this reacheth not to godly Mi­nisters, who preach the Faith of Christ intirely, and labour to draw men unto God; nor yet unto them, who in some sort are called of God, according to his Will (but not in favour, or because he is pleased with their Administration) to doe his worke, though they be neither qualified as hee requires, nor dispence the holy things of God sincerely and purely as they ought. When you tell us we must beware of false Prophets, you speake the words of Scripture: but in your application of it to the Ministers of the Gospel, and Congregations in Eng­land, you robbe and spoile the sense of Scripture, which is not the least degree of theft.

The Priests many times, were no better than the false Pro­phets: ut the people is never forbidden to communicate with the [...] in the ordinances of prescribed Worship, though they [Page 12]must take heed to their soules, M [...]. 15.16. M [...]. 5.20. that they be not deceived by them. The Scribes and Pharisees were blinde guides, who did neither teach the way of life, nor walke therein, and yet our Saviour forbad not the faithfull to heare or communicate with them in the Worship of God. He charged his Disciples to beware of their leaven, M [...]th. 16.12. & 23.16. Luk. 12.1. Amsw in Song. cap. 1. v. 6. and let them alone, because they were blinde leaders of the blinde: but so long as they preached the truth, and woshipped God aright, he never prohibited them to heare and communicate in the ordinances.

To beware of false Prophets then, is not evermore in body to separate from them, A Deo [...]ocati itque constitutt sunt, ut leg [...]n Moses in Sy [...] ­gugis populo prae­ [...]gant, &c. Quale [...]unque [...] sunt, [...] est reci­pl [...]a [...], si ve [...]o [...] cons [...]n a­ [...], i [...] [...]lenda [...]. Pise it. in Matth. 23.2, 3. Aug. in Ioh. [...] 46. [...] [...]cr [...] nolite au­d [...]c, [...]olite faec­ [...]e. span [...], que [...]. Visin. de L [...] Bapt­arg. desen. pag. 1691. P [...]. 5.3.7. Aug. cp. 2 [...]. [...] vo­ [...]abub, [...] distern [...]t quotidiana, [...], quodest inimicumnom ni Christi­ [...] cons [...]cure. Ly [...] ex­pounds this place of the false Church. T [...]nt. 2. p. 314. CAN S [...]y. §. 4. p. 61. but not to receive their doctrine, or hearken to the devises of their owne hearts. For of false pro­phets that teach corrupt things, and mangle the Word of life, some have standing in the house of God, and doe performe the office of teachers, and dispencers of holy mysteries, whose de­vises we must so reject, as that we depart not from the ordi­nances, nor cast off that which is of God. Others set up a strange worship, which is not of God, teach their owne dreames, and not the Truth of God, be set apart for reall idola­try, or have no standing at all in the Church of God, and with these, we are not to communicate, because these things are not of God, nor to be performed by any calling or authoritie from God whatsoever. But whiles you speake of false Prophets without any distinction, you faine a new forme of speech, and bring in a new doctrine.

Solomon exhorteth to attend unto wisedome, and keep under­standing, because otherwise, he may be deceived by the lips of the a dulterous woman, which drop as the hony combe. But with what face or conscience can this be applyed to them who preach the faith of Christ intirely, and administer the seale of the Covenant for substance according to the pleasure of the Institutor? Or to them that be not rightly qualified, who yet are set apart to teach the truth, read the Scriptures, & dispence the Sacraments in societies, professing the true faith, and doctrine of salvation? It will be said, False teachers are Adulteresses. In some resemblance and similitude they may be so called, but Metaphoricall speeches must not be over-retched. And who [Page 13]are those false Teachers? Not every man who is not rightly qualified for the Ministery, enters disorderly, Ainsw. in S [...]ng, c. 2.15. The taking of these Foxes, is the discovering and refuting of [...]eir errours, [...]e judging, censuring and c [...]sting them out of the Church. 1 Tim. 1.3.18, 19, 20. or wording them, if th [...], be none of the Church. 2 Ioh. 10. Qui [...] de [...] ­que improvat [...] atque dammat [...], [...]coquc [...] posti­ [...] est Rolioc. in 1 Theol. 5.21. C [...]fehill [...]re [...]t of one Cross [...]. pag. 25. Stay. against. Sect. 1. p. 2. Pl. pag. 22. Hen. Amsw. First Ansvv. &c p. 26. Now seeing such vveeds flouri­shed shortly af­ter in the gar­den of th [...] Lord, is it not more Life for us (thinke you to keep that foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, on which Christs Church is builded, th [...]n to build upon the boggs [...]. executeth his office remissely: nor every one that now and then mingles his owne devises with the Truth of God. For any one, or all these may be found in him, who supplieth the place, and standeth in the roome of a true Teacher, with whom the people of God may and ought to communicate, not in his sin, but in the true Worship of God. Sufficient hath been said of this matter be­fore, from the example of the Priests, Scribes and Pharisees: To which this one thing may be added. That if all must goe for such false Prophets, and Adulteresses, with whom it is not lawfull to communicate, against whom any exception may be taken, in respect of entrance, execution, doctrine and admini­stration, I feare there will scarce be found a Church or Mini­sterie since the Apostles times, wherewith the Faithfull might lawfully hold Communion.

It is well knowne, many errours and superstitions crept in­to the Church, immediately after the Apostles death, and the Pastors had their hands deep in the maintenance of them. What one saith of Chrysostome (as you cite him) may be said of others before and after him. He was not without his faults, His golden mouth, wherein he passed others, sometime had leaden words, which yeelded to the errour and abuse of others. I am not ignorant, that in his daies many evill customes were crept into the Church, which in his workes he reproveth not. And so much the aforesaid Author had expressed a little before; There is not any of them (saith hee) that the world doth most wonder at, but have had their affections, nor I thinke, that you (adversaries to us and to the Truth) will in every respect admit, all that any one of the Fathers wrote. My selfe were able from the very first after the Apostles times, to run them over all, and straitly examining their words and assertions finde imperfections in all: and thus farre the Authour.

What then, must the Faithfull disclaime them all as false Prophets, and Adulteresses, and shun all Communion and fel­lowship with them in the worship of God? If boysterous zeal did not blinde mens eyes, I should wonder, if you be not asto­nished [Page 14]at your abuse of Scripture in this matter: And when you cite Scripture allegorically in this manner, you may doe well to call to remembrance, what your selfe have noted out of M r. CAN. Stay. §. 15. p. 135. Knewstubs against the Heresies of N. N. pag. 61. To uphold the heresies of N. N. this is one speciall and principall practice, that the historie, and native sense of the Word of God is altogether neglected of him, and in stead thereof, is entertained an allegoricall and bastardly construction, foolish and fond distincti­ons, which thing utterly defaceth the certaintie of the sacred Scripture, and maketh no other thing of it, than a nose of waxe.

The Apostle giveth charge to beware of dogs. Phil 32. Deodat. Ital. Bi­ble. That is, pro­fane and im­pure; thus he calleth false Prophets, who taught that the righteousnesse and salvation of man did consist in part in the works of the Law, and imposed a necessi [...]e to observe the Mosaicall cere­monies. Act. 15.1. Zanch. in Ph. 3.2. Sect. de Ca­ [...]e [...]dis falsis Doctor. Bern. sup. Cant. serm. 33. A rotten contagion creepeth at this day through the who [...] body of the Church the [...], the de perater, the more inward, the more dead­ly, &c. Ye be called Pastors, when indeed ye be spoilers, and would God the milke and fleece [...]d suffice you, ye thrist for blood. The Arch Priest visiteth his charge to fill his purse, he betrayethen [...]ocent blood, he filleth murders, adultenes, incests, fornications, &c. Hok [...] in sap. lib. lect. 1 [...]2. The Priests or our age are like the Priests of Baal, they are wicked Angels: they resemble the Priests of D [...]g [...]n, they are priests of Prinpus, and Angels of Heb. [...] 123. D [...]v [...] have been brought us against Clerkes, [...] Bishops, th [...] [...] not their lives according to the [...]cred Ca­ [...], which should be a [...]at the [...], [...]. But who are dogs? False Teachers, who did barke against the doctrine of salvation by Christ, pressed Circumcision, as necessarie to salva­tion, were returned to their old vomite, and being formerly of Jews made Christians, were fallen back to Judaisme. And is there any Question, but we must take heed of these, and all others of the same kinde? And this is that which Zanchy con­firmeth, by many other Texts of Scripture, Viz. That not onely the Teachers, but the Faithfull must learne to know and beware of ravening wolves, blinde guides, who bring not the doctrine of Christ, denie all the Articles of Faith, or some at least speake per­verse things, and draw Disciples after them. But what is be­come of shame and honestie, when men apply this against them that preach Christ truely and intirely, and administer the holy things of God purely, by authority received from God? Or against communicating with them in the Ordinances of God, who professe the faith, are called to dispence the ordi­nances of Religion, because in some particular, their calling was not orderly, as it ought, or the persons endued with gifts, [Page 15]as God requireth. Further answere may be taken out of that which hath been spoken, to the former passages, for one answer will fit them all.

To communicate in the true Worship of God, with Mini­sters no better than ignorant, idle, proud, cruell, covetous and profane Priests, no better than Scribes and Pharisees, is neither a vaine worship, nor an abetting of the party in his sinne, nor to re­bell against the Lord, nor to commit spirituall whoredome, or to embrace the bosome of an harlot. These are great words to af­fright, but they are of no force to hurt, if a man will not co­wardly yeeld without any combate. No, to communicate with such, when God called us thereunto, is to worship God aright, to reverence his ordinances, to rely on his grace, to hearken unto his voice, and submit unto his good pleasure. To such communicating he hath promised and vouchsafed his blessing, their service is acceptable unto God, because com­manded by him, and they have found him graciously present to cheere and refresh them. It is without question, the Prophets, our Saviour, the Apostles, the Faithfull in all ages have communicated with such in Gods Ordinances, but not in their sinne: And what man well advised will say of that practice, that it was either Rebellion against God, or spirituall whoredom, or vaine worship? The Faithfull must not com­municate with those societies in mind or body, where Christ is not at all present with the presence of his grace and love, nor in those polluted Congregations, Rev. 18.4. where reall Idolatrie is so practised, that they cannot be present, but they must partake therein: We have for­saken the Strumpet that made drunke the inhabitants of the earth with the wine of her forni­cation, and are gone out of her, lest wee should be partakers in her sinnes, and receive of her plagues, otherwise wee have divided our selves neither from God nor his Church. Bilson Christ an. part 3. pag 19. They must not communicate with false Prophets in things of their owne devising, and which they bring meerly upon their owne braine, and not at all from God: but if igno­rant, scandalous, corrupt men, who neither please God, nor are approved of him in their Office and Ministration, in a so­cietie professing the intire Faith of Christ, doe by authoritie dispense the Ordinances of God, the Faithfull may and ought to communicate with them, if they want power to redresse and amend things out of order. They must not Communicate [Page 16]in sin, but they may and ought to hold Communion in the ex­ercises of Religion, with the true Church of Christ.

The sheep of Christ heare his voice, but will not heare the voice of a stranger? Joh. 10.5. But who is that stranger whom the sheep will not heare? From whom they flie both in minde and body, with whom they must hold no Communion, CAN. Stay. §. 11 p. 112, 113. inward or outward? Thus farre you extend the words of our Saviour, and unlesse they be so meant, they conclude not what you purpose. Is every unlaw­full Minister this stranger? Deodat. Ita [...]. Joh. 10.1. Thieves and robbers are the false Do­ctors, vvho thrust in them­selves without a lawfull cal­ling, with false doctrine, and an evil [...]n ind. The true shepheard is onely Christ, the rest are his servants, and not the own­ers of the sheep: The sheep must not rule their shepheards, but they have leave to di­scerne stran­gers, and flie from thieves and murde­rers. Cyp. lib. 1. Ep [...]st. 4. Therefore the flock, or peo­ple obeying the Lords P [...]cepts, and fearing God, ought to separate themselves from a sinful Bishop. Bilson [...] part. 3. page. 301. 353. CAN Stay. § 3. p. 26. Jer. 23.14, 15. Acts 20.25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31. Is every unlearned, scandalous, cor­rupt Minister this stranger? Is every one whom Christ calleth a thiefe and a robber, who enters not in by the dore, but climbes up some other way, this stranger? Is every one that smiteth, but feedeth not the flock; that maketh sad the heart of the Godly, strengtheneth the hands of the wicked, mingleth the Truth of God with his owne dreames, this stranger? If these be not strangers meant by Christ, much lesse the painfull, godly, sincere Pastor, who feedeth the flock with sound and wholsome foode, and leadeth them unto the waters of life? And then this passage is impertinently alledged. But all these cannot be meant ac­cording to your interpretation, for then absolutely, all commu­nicating with them in the Ordinances of God is not forbid­den, but to receive their doctrine, embrace their errours, or follow their manners, which was evermore unlaw­full.

The Godly and Faithfull among the Jews, might not refuse to heare the Scribes and Pharisees, when they had no power to cast them out, and yet they were thieves and robbers, who corrupted the Law, and without question spake most reproach­full things against the way and worship of God. The godly could not be sure that the Pharisees would not deliver such things, neither did they offend in being present at the wor­ship of God: and yet it will not follow, that a man may heare any one, or any where. Thieves and murderers in the Church of the Jewes, sprung up with them, and continued amongst them, and neither departed themselves, nor were cast out by others that had authoritie. In the Christian Church divers false [Page 17]Teachers, ravening Wolves, Antichrists rose up, 1 Joh. 2.19. Tit. 3.10. 1 Tim 1.20. 2 Thes. 2.3, 4. Phil. 1.15. not from a­mong the heathen, or Jews, but in and from themselves, whereof some went out from the Church, and separated them­selves, others were cast out by excommunication, and delive­red up to Satan, that they might learne not to blaspheme. O­thers were tolerated in the Church, either because their here­sies were not so pernicious at the first, or the better side had not power to cast them out, or they preached the fundamentall Truths, but of evill mindes. These in respect of outward or­der, were lawfully elected or called, but false Prophets disco­vered by their doctrine, not by their calling, When the A­postle exhor­teth Timothy, not to partake in other men [...] sins, doth he not intimate that unfit, un­able, unworthy Ministers might be or­dained in the Churches, though un­lawfully? and some of them continuing in the Church, the Faithfull are not forbidden to partake of the Ordinances of God, because they are present, but to beware of their errours, that they be not infected by them. But, if by strangers we understand onely such as did a­rise from without, and brought blasphemous doctrine, directly contrary to the foundation of the Faith, or such as are justly cast out by the Church, that they might learne not to blas­pheme, then the Faithfull might neither communicate with them in publike, nor receive them unto house, but flie from them both in minde and body. But thieves, who lead not in by the doore, Christ, who have strange voices, which the sheep acknowledge not, who bring another foundation besides Je­sus Christ, Atha. ad solitari­am vita agentes, complaineth against Con­stantius, That whereas the Bishops in those daies were wont to be lawfully chosen by the people of the place, and sufficiently examined, and allowed by other Bi­shops, ad joyning, and openly created in the Church, Constantius in stead of the Church, would have his [...]alace succeed, and for the multitude of people, and right Assemblies (to elect) he commanded three Eu [...]uches to be present, and three of his Spies (or Prolers) for you cannot call them Bishops; that they sixe in his palace, might create one Felix a Bishop. And noti [...]g what manner the Emperor and his Eunuches made, he saith, In illorum locum juvenes libidinosos, e hnieos, ne catechismo quiaem imbutos, ne [...] non & bigamos, & maximis crimin bus male and entes, modo aurum darent, ves [...]i emptorese for [...] ad Episcopa­tu summiserere. Bilson Christian Subj part 2. pag 255. these are not to be enrolled with such as teach the doctrine of Faith truly: for they are not strangers either in respect of Sect, Religion, or Lawes, they are of the houshold of God, they serve the Lord as he hath prescribed, and walke according to his Law. And what is it to wrest the Scrip­ture, if this be not, when that which is spoken against utter enemies of our Saviour Christ, who refused to be shep­heards under him, and his Ensigne, is applied to them who are [Page 18]furnished with singular knowledge, wisedome and utterance, teach the truth of the Gospell intirely, and leade the sheep of Christ to the waters of life, whose labours God hath blessed, whose voice the sheep heare and receive, in whose message they rejoyce, and whom they follow as they teach Christ. You pretend the testimony of the learned in this matter, but let the places be examined, and they will be found, either to make directly against you, or nothing for you, as I shall have occasion to shew in the next Section, and shall be done more fully, when you shall set downe the words of the Au­thors, whereupon you build, and attempt from them to make good your conclusion. In the meane space I will forbeare te­diously to repeat over and over again, that such and such make nothing for you, and such and such are grossely abused and fal­sifyed.

Now let us lay the Principles and Inference together, and see if they close.

The Nonconformists complain of many grosse abuses in the Ministerie, in the Election, Ordination, Qualities of the Per­son admitted, and execution of the function; as, that ignorant, negligent, profane men are set over the flock; and Non-resi­dents, Pluralists, men of corrupt mindes, who discourage the godly, and hearten the profane. But this complaint they put not up against all, but many in the Ministery. The Infe­rence you would make upon their ground is, That it is unlaw­full to communicate, not onely with these men, in the Ordi­nances of Gods Worship, but even with the most learned, god­ly and painfull, who teach the Truth, live holily, dispence the Mysteries of Godlinesse purely, be approved of the Congrega­tions, and blessed of the most high.

If I took pleasure in your veine (call it as you please) I could say, CAN. Stay. §. 11. p. 114. I suspect my sight, and I aske of my selfe againe and a­gaine, could the Treat. write so unskilfully: For if this be not a Non sequitur, then Fooles cannot speake Non-sense. You may take it home, For I know not to whom it can be so fitly ap­plyed as to your selfe. When this Inference is made good by Scripture, Reason, or Learned Author, I shall suspect that the Non-conformists doe not walke according to their Principles; But till then, there is just ground to think, that in making such Inferences, you abuse both your selfe and others. That which [Page 19]you adde concerning the dumbe Ministers out of M. Penry, CAN. Neces. of Sep. p. 43. Id. Neces. of Sep. Epist. to the Reader. is besides the point, for he was no Non-conformist, but a Se­paratist, by your confession; and if no man of pietie will pleade for them, yet men of piety, learning, and judgement doe, and must pleade (for it is a truth) that there is not an absolute Nul­litie of their Ministerie: and this I presume upon better advice, you will not denie, or if you doe, you must not stay in the Se­paration, which you have made.

SEC. II. CAN, Necessitie of Separation. pag. 29, 30.

NOne may heare, or joyne in Spirituall Communion with that Ministerie, which hath not a true vocation and calling by election, approbation, and ordination of that Faithfull people, where he is to administer: Id pag. 46. If their Par­sons, Vicars, Parish Priests, Stipendiaries, &c. be, neither in election nor ordination made Mini­sters agreeable to the Word of God, then is their Ministe­rie false, un­lawfull, Anti­christian, and so consequent­ly they deale with the holy things of God. CAN. Stay §. 11. pag. 113. All these affirme, That whosoever taketh upon him to preach, without a lawfull sending, com­meth in not by a lawfull election, and holy Church ordinance, but breaketh in against order, by force and favour of men, and by humane lawes, he is a Stranger, a thiefe, a murderer, according to Christs sayings in Jolm 10. And thus have the old Writers ex­pounded the places, as Iraeneus lib. 4. cap. 4 Clemens Alexan. lib. 1. Strom. Cypr. libs 1. Epist. 6. & 76. Didimus in Iohn 10. [...]upert in Iolm 10. & Theodoret ibid. and others. But the present Mi­nisteri [...] of the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of England, hath not a true vocation and calling by election, approbation and ordination of the Faithfull people where they Administer. Therefore none must heare, or joyne in Spirituall Communion with the present Ministerie of the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of England.

Which of the Propositions the Non-conformists will denie I know not: but sure J am, they are both theirs. Howbeit (it may be) they doe not so well weigh their owne Principles, as they should; And hence it is, that their practice is not so strictly an­swerable to their Profession, and therefore doe give just occasion (I speake it with griefe) unto the Prelates, and their Parasites, to insinuate against them hypocriticall ends, in condemning so [Page 20]grievously the Ministerie, worship, and government of the English Church, CAN. Neces. separ. Epist. to the Reader. What better should we ex­pect from them, who seek to put out the light a­gaine, which hath been by themselves chiefly revealed unto many. I know what I say, and have good experience of this thing. and yet to partake in the knowne evills and abuses there­of. But for my part, I am otherwise minded than the Bishops in this thing, and doe thinke, that they doe of conscience condemne the state of the Church, but doe not maturely consider the responsive conclusions, which follow upon their Principles. For which cause I have written of purpose this Treatise, to prove they cannot ju­stifie their Tenents against that Church, and stand members law­fully thereof.

ANSWER.

HANNIBAL said once (saith M. Parker) There was not so much as one in all the enemies campe, that was called Gisco: In an Epist. published in the profane schis. of the Brownists. Parker of the Crosse. part 2. c. y. §. 2. As for those of the Separa­tion, who have confuted them more than wee? or who have vvritten more against them? Some things of truth they hold, with which we thinke it no more sinne for us now to agree, than Cyprian once to agree with Novatianus in that which hee esteemed right, &c. So whatsoever stirre or sedition was moved by the unbeleeving Iewes, it was imputed to the Iews that were Christians, who were thought to be all one with them. Caesar. Baron. An [...]al. in anno 201. The impuritie of the Gnosticks, was drawne to the defamation of all other Christians, no difference being made between them Cicer. Parad. 2. M Sutel. tract. de disc. ca. 15. pag. 165. Bell of Ch. Govern. cap. 12. pag. 151. 152. Bancroft, tract. of discip. cap. 33. pag. 430. 431. 432 Laus Querim. Eccles. pag. 62. 63. So whereas the Egyptians were diri, ventusi, fa ibundi, jactantes, vani, liberi, nova um rerum cupientes: the Christians, and all that are there dwelling, are thought to be the very same. So may it truly be said now, Not so much as one of the Godly Ministers, that suffer in England about the Discipline, that may deservedly be called a Brownist. And the Nonconformists doe no more lay the grounds of Separation, than the Reformed Churches sowe the seede of Libertimisme, and Anabaptistrie, which of all others they have most soundly confuted, and judiciously laid open to the world, without seeking to justifie ought, that elsewhere upon good reason they condemned to be evill. But it is no new thing to re­proach them as the Authors of errors, heresies, or schismes, who principally laboured the suppressing of them. No man cryed downe the Errour of the Manichees concerning a good God and an evill, so much as Austine: and yet their opinion is charged upon them that hold his opinion of absolute Predesti­nation. The positions of the Stoicks answere to the opinions [Page 21]of the Remonstrants concerning Free Will and power in Man: but the contrary side is burdened therewith. The grounds of the Nonconformists stand directly opposite to the speciall grounds of Separation, and yet they heare from some, that they be Separatists in heart, from others, that they have laid the foundation, and the Separatists build upon it, and that such as have made answere to the Separatists, doe against conscience put out the light, which hath been by themselves chiefly revealed.

It is true, they complaine of abuses in the Church (and not to excuse humane frailty) sometimes with heat and fervour excessive, and humbly sue for reformation. But to seek re­dresse of what is out of order, is rather to endeavour the re­paire of what is ruinous, than the plucking of it down. Jt is one thing dutifully to urge the proceeding of our Church unto perfection, another, schismatically to leave, and forsake her. Be­twixt these two, there is as much difference, S. B. The ra­sing of the foundation, &c Epist. to the Reader. as is betweene that child that in tender affection reproveth, and laboureth the refor­mation of his Mother, whom he seeth by her indiscreet behaviour to become a reproach among women; and him that under pre­tence of the hate of her uncomely behaviour, should pluck out her bowells, and forsake her.

They complaine of abuses remaining in the Reformation, not denying that a wonderfull and gracious reformation is al­ready made, but moving to a through and perfect reformati­on of what is wanting and out of order. For willingly they confesse, that next unto the Lord God, every one of them is most deeply bound unto the Kings and Princes, whom he hath used as excellent instruments to deliver his Church here, out of the spirituall Egypt of Poperie. T.C. Repl. 1 fel. 155. This they willingly confesse before men, and in their prayers daily give most humble thanks to God for; And by their earnest suite, and humble desires, which they have for further reformation, they are so farre from unthank­fulnesse, that they desire the heape of felicitie to the Church and Commonwealth.

Which of the Prophets doth not cry out against the Priests in time of the law? Against their pride, oppression, covetous­nesse, tyrannie; that they despised knowledge, opposed the true Prophets of the Lord, countenanced impietie and pro­fanenesse, and shewed themselves enemies to all goodnesse? [Page 22]Did the Prophets then, who knew what it was to worke ac­cording to their owne Principles, teach a necessitie of Separa­tion, or give presidents to others to separate by their example! In all ages of the Church, Platina in vita Marcellin. Hanc autem calamita­tem, quam nostri passi sunt, a Deo permissam refert. Euseb. &c. Cypr. de duplici Marty [...]. Hic discrucior quod non paucos Pa­stores habeat ecclesia qui non solum non oppo­nunt sua corpora adversus lupo­rum inciersus, verum etiam ip­filupos agant, &c. Concil Nic. 1. ca. 2. Gratian. dist. 48 ca 1. Leo ad Afri an. Epist. 85. Grat. dist. 61. ca. 5. Hieron. ad O [...]e an. ep. ad. Nepo­ti. T.C. repl. 1. pag. 41. Ambr de offic. lib. 1. cap. 50 Grat dist. 93. cap. 21. Ex quo i [...] Ecclesis, si­cut in imperio Romano, crevit avaritia, perit iex de sacerdote, & visia de Pr­pheta. Bas in Asceticis. Chry. desacer. complaints have been made against abuses of this nature by all sorts, ancient and moderne, who never denyed the Churches where the true faith was profes­sed, to be the true Churches of Christ: Cyprian complaines thus, Here I am grievously troubled, that the Church hath ma­ny Pastors, who not onely doe not oppose their bodies against the incursions of wolves, but also they themselves doe play the parts of wolves, whiles they destroy the souls of the simple, they themselves serving their bellies, gaine and ambition; and make merchandise of the Word of God, and adulterate it with ungodly opinions. The Counsell of Nic [...] makes complaint, That many things in the ad­mission of Presbyters and Bishops was done contrary to the Rule. Leo, That the office of a Pastor, and government of the Church was committed to men altogether unworthy. Hierom reproach­eth the Bishop of Ierusalem, that he could, as himselfe boasted, make in one houre a thousand Clarks: and condemneth it in o­thers; That Clarkes run to the Bishops suffraganes certaine times of the yeere, and bringing some summe of money, they are or­dained, being chosen of none. Ambrose sheweth the abuse in his time, to be this, If a man asked some of them who preferred them to be Priests, answers is made by and by, that the Archbishop for an hundred shillings ordained me Bishop. Nazianzon in Apo­log. That they which handle holy things with unwashen hands, and polluted souls, are more in number than they, over whom they rule; Miseri in [...]iotate, miseri in splendore. And ad Maxi­mum. Ad Pastoralis muneris administrationem nihil contule­runt, ui [...] quod comam quam turpiter alere studuerunt, raserunt. And in the same place: De pecumiis jam in ecclesia bellum geri­tus. When Basil: of an Heathen was made a Christian, he saith That he did greatly wonder at the dissentions, which were in the Church concerning Faith; and the contentions of the Go­vernors: because every one leaving the doctrine of our Lord Ie­sus Christ, did challenge to himself, by his owne authoritie, cer­taine rules and orders: Also J perceived dissentions to arise from hence, because there was no discipline, no knowledge of God, or it was perve [...]se if any. Chrysostome; Neque immeritos solum ad­leg [...] sed & idone [...]. The Toletan Councells com­plaine, [Page 23]that for eighteen yeeres, no Synod was held, Whence came grosse ignorance, and corruption of the Ministers. It would be too long to set downe at large the grave, sharpe and lamen­table complaints, that Nicholas de Clemang; Petrus de Aliaco, See Nichol. Clemang. specu­lum Eccles. Petrus de Aliaco. reformat. Eccle. Bern. in Conv. S. P. ser. 1. Heu Heu Domine De­us. Ipsi sunt in persecutione tua primi, qui videa­tur in Eccl sia tua primatum genere: Id. in Cant. ser. 76. Parum est no­stris vigilibus, quod non ser­vant, nisi & perdant, Gildas. See Vsser de pri­mord. Eccles. Br [...]. H [...]oper on the 8 Command. pag. 74 79. Whitaker. de pont. Rom. pre­sat. ad Audito res. In sch sma­tis remedium hoc primo inven [...]um est, quod ipso morbo magis pericudesum fu­isse, molti virt sancti & pru­dentes judica­runt. Quod quamquam non statim apparuit, tamen misera experientia demceps demonstra­vit. Tum enim ambitio irepsit in Ecclesiam, & Episcopi caeperunt non minus de dignitate suarum sedium, quam de Christi grege cogitare, &c. Gregor. Nazianz. orat 2. pag 399. They in­trude themselves unto the most holy Ministeries with unwashen hands and minds, as they say, and before they are worthy to come unto the Sacraments, they affect the San­ctuarie it selfe, & circum sacrasanctam mensam premuntur & protenduntur, esteeming this or­der not an example of vertue, but a maintenance and helpe of life. Bernard, and our Gildas, have published against the Ecclesia­sticall Governours of their times, for their ignorance, pride; luxurie, riot, drunkennesse, persecution of all true godlinesse, covetousnesse, rapine, contentions, brawles, simonie, and what not? And since the time of Reformation, not the In­conformists only, but the godly Bishops, and Martyrs them­selves, have observed, bewailed, and reproved these abuses. Fa­ther Latimer, in his Sermons generally, but in his Sermon of the Plough, is plaine and large against the pompe and idlenesse of Bishops, who Lord it over, but feed not the Flock of Christ, muzzle the people in ignorance and profanenesse, live riotously, hunt after preferment, but seek not the winning of souls unto God. Bishop Hooper complaines, saying, It is great pity to see how farre that office of a Bishop is degenerated from the originall in the Scripture, it was not so at the beginning, when Bishops were at the best, as the Epist. of Paul to Titus testifieth; that willed him to ordaine in every Citie of Creete a Bishop. And as sharply and closely he censureth the Bishops of his daies, for arrogating to themselves so much witt, as to Rule and serve in both States, in the Church, and in the Civill Policie, and to the contrary, professeth, That one of them is more than any man is able to satis­fie; and that it is not possible that one should doe both well, and that it is a great oversight of the Princes, and higher Powers of the earth, so to charge them with two burdens, when none of them, as he saith, is able to beare the least of them both. The accusa­tions which are brought against both the Ministers and mem­bers in the Separatists Congregations are not few, nor light, nor such as can be wiped away with reproaches. All these have borne witnesse of the great disorders and corruptions, [Page 24]which have been in the Church of God, but they never deem­ed the societie was to be abandoned, because of these great and erroneous blemishes, rather they sought the redresse and reformation of what was amisse.

If some things of man be mixed with that which is of God, as humane superioritie with divine Ministerie, the pure wheat with some chasse, the holy Sacraments with rites savouring of superstition, a found Christian is not to cast away what is of God, as a nullitie, fruitlesse, defiled, Antichristian, Idolatrous, because somewhat humane is annexed unto them, nor in de­fence of the good to be charged or condemned, as going crosse to that which he taught against the evill. Aug. de fid. & bon. oper. tom. 4.4. Nos vero ad piam doctrinam pertinere arbi­tramur, ut & canes in ecclesia propter pacem ecclesiae tolere­mus. Iun. ani­mad. in Bell. contr 5. l. 1 ca. 3. l. 1. ca. 3. not. 24. Speaking of Popish ordina­tion, saith, A parte ad to­tum non proce­dit argumenta­tio: In ordina­tione aliquid ni­hil: fac [...]unt, ergo nihili faciunt or­dinationem. Quod Dei, quod ecclesiae in ea est, permagni facimus; quod a malo est facimus nihilt. Calvinus autem eo in lo [...]o agit de rutibus adventitiis solum, non de ordinatione tota simplici­ter. Imposition of hands, whereby the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit were given un­to Beleevers, was peculiar to the Apostles. Act. 8.14, 15.19.6. & vide Beza annot. major. in Act. 19. Synops. purior. Theol. disput. 24. §. 32.33. Jus Pastores [...]gend [...], est penes Ecclesiam, ac [...]o [...]inde p [...]bi convenit cum Presbyteris. Ius eos ordinandi solis Presbyteris est propri [...]. CAN. Neces. of sep. c. 1. p. 8. Jun. animad in Bell. cont. 5. l. 1. ca. 3. not. 9, 10. Bell. de Cler. l. 1. ca. 3. §. Accedat. If an unmeet Mini­ster be set in office, by whomsoever the election is made, he is of men, or humane: but forthwith there followeth not a nul­litie of his Ministerie. If a fit Minister be chosen disorderly, in that choice there is somewhat humane, but the Office or Ministerie is of God. In the body we can distinguish between the substance and the sicknesse which cleaveth unto it; betwixt the substance of some member, and a bunch or swelling, which is a deformitie, but destroyeth not the nature, taketh not a­way the use of that part or member.

But what answere can be given to the argument drawn from their grounds? which Proposition in the syllogisme propounded, can they denie, seeing they are both theirs?

If both be theirs, they cannot denie them, but he that hath seen you by your writings only, knoweth by experience, if he hath made any tryall, it is not safe to trust your bare saying, or confident Assertion.

The Nonconformists disclaime the Major, as none of theirs: and the Assumption, so farre as it is true, makes nothing a­gainst them.

First, the Nonconformists never held Ordination by the people, where he is to administer, to be necessarie or essentiall in the calling of a Minister. For in their opinion, ordination [Page 25]belongeth not to the communitie of the Faithfull but to the Presbyterie, or Colledge Ecclesiasticall, and may and ought to be performed by the Presbyters of neighbouring Congrega­tions, if they have none of their owne, or not a competent number. Thus you your selfe relate their Position. Moreover, every officer in the Church, must be ordained by imposition of hands of the Eldership, the whole Church joyning with them in fasting and prayer.

Secondly, They give not the sole power of Election to the communitie of the Faithfull, but require their consent in the election, by the guidance and direction of their Governors, See Calvin Epist. 131. & Instit. l. 4. cap. 3. §. 15. T. C. repl. 2. pag. 1. 196.197. Iun. Eccles. 3. p. 1. Non solus judicat, sed praeeunte & mode­rante Clero & Presby­terio: soret enim proclive labi in illud incommodum, si po­pulus solus eligerit. Non est autem ab [...]o tantum periculum, ubi conjunctus est Clerus, & actioncan dirigit Presbyterium, praeser­tim consilio & aucto­ritate vicinorum E­piscoporum ecclesia­rumque accedente? Iun. contr. 5. l. 1. ca. 7. not. 24. Aurcolus in 4. Sent. dist. 24. art. 2. ra. 3. ea quae sunt ordi num omnes recipiunt im­mediate a Christo. Horb. Irenic. l. 2. cap. 11. prop. 13. pag. 179. Itaque potest cuiquam, &c. Fr. de Victor. in rel. de potest. eccle. Q 2. W E. The Church plea. §. 8. pag. 78. A dispute. par. 3. cap. 8. pag. 167. Of him who is obtruded and thrust upon a people without their owne election, it is vvell said by Zanchius, That he can neither exercise his Ministerie with a good conscience, nor yet be pro­fitable to the people. See Fulk in Rhem. in Ephe. 4.13. As some people be of that disposi­tion, that they know better to be governed, than to governe. Grat. de jure belli. lib. 1. c. 3. pag. 49. so it fareth with some Christians, that it is better they should be provided for, than left to provide for themselves. and the Ecclesiasticall Colledge, to whom the Government of the Church is committed. They allow not that every small companie should doe as they please, or stand upon their owne bottome; But as the Church is to be governed by common counsell, and consent of the Ecclesiasticall Colledge, so the ele­ction and choice of the Pastor or Teacher, is to be made by the direction and counsell of the Senate. A Pastor should not be thrust upon the people without their knowledge and approba­tion, neither should the people proceed therein without dire­ction of the Governours.

Thirdly, The Minister doth not derive his power or authori­tie, either vertually or formally from the people, but immedi­ately from Christ, whose servant he is, for the Churches use and benefit, in whose name he must execute his office, whose message he must deliver, whose seales he must dispence, and to whom he must give account. This is that which Franciscus de Victoria, the master of Canus affirmeth (though his words be ignorantly drawne to another purpose, I suppose you know by whom) That all Bishops doe derive Iurisdiction and power im­mediately from God.

Fourthly, If the people have given away their power of e­lection, or be not fit to chuse, through their ignorance or sim­plicitie, [Page 26]or that libertie be taken from them, they conceive it to be a maime or defect in the calling of the Minister; but this de­fect doth not make a nullitie of the office, or acts done by vertue of that calling, which he hath: For in every true Church, where the Word of God is intirely Preached, and received, and the Sa­craments for substance rightly administred, there is a true Mini­sterie, and a true calling to the Ministerie, though in some things maimed and faultie. In the Church of God, and no where else, all sound and saving truth is to be found: for the Church is the pillar and ground of Truth; and where the pro­fession of all saving Truth, with the right administration of the Sacraments is found, there is the Church, which ordinarily can­not be had, maintained or continued, without a true Ministe­rie, nor that without a true calling.

The saving truth of God, Gratian. Decret dist. 63. cap. 22, 23. and a true Ministerie are essentiall to the true Church, consisting of all it parts, and partaker of the Ordinances of grace. Something of the se remaine in every complete societie, Platima in vita Bene­dict. 2. In the Primitive Church, the people which were Lay­men, chose their Pastors, and for a long time the Bi­shops of Rome themselves were not chosen with­out the consent of the Princes, &c. and the Emperors were possessed of it as their right, ever since the daies of Ch [...]rles. Bilson. Christ. Subject. part 3. pag. 168. Sol. Iarchi. 2 Mac. 4.7, 8, 26, 27. Ioseph Antiq: lib. 20. cap. 18. & l. 18. cap. 4. Ctrnel. Bertram. de pol. Iudaic. cap. 18. Concil. Laed c. cap. 13. Non est permittendum turbis, &c. Iun. animadv. in Bl [...]. contr 5. lib. 1. ca 7, not. 16.17. which hath any thing of the Church, and for substance and essence, they are true in every true and lawfull complete societie; But as the profession of the truth may be found in all fundamentall points, though mixed with many er­rours: so for Truth and existence, the Ministerie may be lawfull, though in many particulars delinquent and deficient.

In the true Church then, there is a true Ministerie, But the true Church hath continued there by the blessing of God, where the Election of Ministers hath been given away by the people, or taken from them.

In later times, the High Priesthood was bought and sold for monie, and somtimes it was made annuall, that every yeere new Priests were created, as those Governours, whom Kings change every yeere: that as every man would lay out more or lesse monie, he should obtaine, or lose the Priesthood. Which may be seen in the examples of Iason and Menelaus. Never­thelesse, so long as the Church of the Jewes continued the Church of God the Priesthood continued also.

In the Primitive Churches, when the people had a voice in the choice of their Teachers, oftentimes there were factions in the Church, the people stood against their Guides, and the Guides against their people, and the people were divided one [Page 27]against another. And sometimes, either through sloth, or for peace, the Pastors left the election of Officers to the people, Ruffin. lib. 11. c. 10.11. Theod. hist. lib. 4. ca. 6. August. Epist. 110. & 225. Socrat. hist. lib. 7. ca. 34, 35. 39. Concil Antioch. cap. 18. Sozom. hist. l. 2. ca. 18, 19. Naziatrz. in Epit. patris. Euagr. l. 2. cap. 5.8. Theodor. l. 5. ca. 23. Gratian. dist. 63. ca. 11, 12. Cypr. l. 3. epist. 14. & 10. W.B. The Church. plea. §. 8. pag. 90. T.C. repl. 2. par. 1. p. 212. Cypr. l. 2. epist. 5. & l. 4. Epist. 5. & l. 3. epist. 22. and the like he did for Optatus, Satuus Caesernius & Numi­dicus. Calv. Inst. l 4. c. 4. §. 10. August. epist. 223. Theod. l. 1. ca. 23. Socrat. hist. l. 2. ca. 19. Sozom. l. 3. c. 20. Socrat. hist. lib. 7. ca. 28. W.B. The Church plea. § 8. pag. 80. Centur. 1. ca. 4. Centur. 6, 7. col. 591. Centur. 2. c. 7. p. 134. 135. and the people challenged it unto themselves, and sometimes againe they took it from their people, and challenged it to them­selves. But in the mids of these broyles, he was accounted a true Minister, who was elected, whether by the Guides, or by the people, or by the Emperour, so he taught the doctrine of Salvation truely. And if this be not admitted, what shall be done, when the people and their Elders be divided in the choice of a fit Officer or Guide. If the people prevaile against their Elders, he whom they chuse is no Minister to them, be­cause not chosen by their Suffrages: if the Elders against the people, he whom they approve is no Minister, because he wants the peoples voice. And if the people dissent, they must separate and excommunicate one another, because to the one part he is no Minister, whom the other approve.

Though Cyprian teach, That Ministers should be chosen by the people, yet this forme of Election was not in some Churches in Cyprians time, who were esteemed true Churches, and true Ministers. And Cyprian himselfe appointed Aurelius a Rea­der, without advice of the Church, by the authoritie of his fel­low-Ministers then present.

Pinianus was ordained of the people, Elder of the Church, a­gainst Augustines minde and will. Athanasius made Fru­mentius Bishop, and sent him to the Indies, he created Pres­byters in other Churches, and when he came into Egypt, as many as he knew addicted to the Arian haeresie, hee put them out of their place, and whose Faith he tryed and approved, to them he committed the Churches. The Church of Cyzicena gave this honor to Atticus, that without his consent, it could not chuse a Bishop. You will not denie but the Ministerie of the Church for the first, second, and third, and fourth hundred yeeres after Christ, was true, and might be joyned withall. For thus writeth a friend of yours (and as it is supposed by your aide.) It is affirmed by the Centuries of Magdenburg, that from Christs ascension, unto Trajans time, which is about an hundred yeers, every particular Church was governed by the Bishops, El­ders and Deacons, and describing the state of Christian Churches, from Trajans reigne unto Severus ( that is, from the yeere of Christ 100 to 195) thus they write, The order of Government was po­pular, for all Churches had equall power of teaching purely the [Page 28]Word of God, administration of the Sacraments, excommunication of hereticks and wicked persons, loosing the penitent, the election and ordination of Ministers, and the deposition of them againe for just cause. And even unto Constantines time, The Primitive pu­rity of Church Government was not yet defloured, with the dregges of mans invention. [...]ig [...]em. in Apoc. 12. pag. 505. 506. Neither had Satan brought in Prelaticall pride into the sheepfold of the Lord; but Pastors looked every one to the health of his owne flock. And a litle after he citeth Epipha­nius, [...]. [...]. Ibid. pag. 90. Hierome, Ambrose, Cyrill, Hilarie, and Gregorie Nazian­zene, as making for him in the matter of chusing Ministers. But most certaine it is, within this space of time, many things were done, in the election and ordination of Ministers, which are di­rectly crosse to that which you require as essentiall in his cal­ling, See Iun. eccl. l. 3. cap. 1. See S [...]crat. l. 4. [...]. [...] 21. Gr [...]e. 16, 17. &c. 35. Gr. lat. 29. & ca. 36. Gr. ca. 30. lat. Sozom. l. 6. ca. 18.20. Evagr. p. 2. c. 8. Socr. hist. 13. l. 4. c. 10.33. & Theo. l. 4. c. 6. Ambr. offic. l. 1. Bils. Christian Sub. part 2. pag. 28 2. Sozom. l. 7. cap. 8. Socrat. h [...]st. l. 5. ca. 8. Iust in Novel. Inst. 223. cap. 28.9. Concil. To [...]an. ca. 2 [...] Greg. epist. l [...]b. 40. ca. 78. To Constantia the Empresse. The Bishop of Salona was orde­red, neither [...], nor any responsarie witting thereof; which thing was never attempted under any of the Prin­ces, your predecessors, &c. Yet I obeying their graces Precepts, did from my heart remit unto the said Maximus, this his presumption, as freely, as if he had been ordered by my self, &c. Concil. tom. 2. Concil. Parisien. can. 8. if at any time you can prove that all things were obser­ved; which I doe not beleeve.

Ambrose himselfe was chosen Bishop, when he was onely Catechumenus, before he was baptized; so that he was con­strained to teach that which himselfe had not learned; yester­day catechised, to day a Bishop. The Election in all things not to be approved as consonant to the rule (for the Canons were strong against it, and Saint Paul seemeth not willing that a no­vice should be a Bishop) but never thought or esteemed to be none at all. Of the election of Nectarius, see Sozomene and Socrates. Iustinian ordained, If any man build a Church, or house of prayer, and would have Clerkes to be planted there, if hee allow maintenance for them, and place such as be worthy, they shall be ordained upon his Nomination. And the Toletan Councel de­creed. That as long as the founders of Churches doe live, they shall be suffered to have the chiefe and continuall care of the said Chur­ches, and shall offer fit Rectors to the Bishop to be ordained: And if the Bishop neglecting the founders shall presume to place any o­thers, let him know, that his admission shall be voide, and to his shame, but if such as they chuse be prohibited by the Canons as un­worthy, then let the Bishop take to promote some whom he thinketh more worthy. In these particulars, the cōsent of the people is too much abridged, as in some other particulars they tooke too much upon them, or they gave their right away, when yet the [Page 29]calling of the Minister, or the office whereunto he was called in those cases, was not a nullitie. Jn many things (saith the Councell of Paris, which was the complaint of the Nicene Councell long before) the old custom is neglected, and the decrees of the Canons are broken. But the Ministerie of the Word, and Sacraments was not made voide thereby.

The godly learned, consonant to the Scriptures, have ever­more distinguished betwixt an error in admission into an of­fice, and a flat nullitie of the office it selfe. The Ministers ele­ction into his office, Neque tamen ubi­que ea in parte felix fuit Ecclesia: alicu­bi enim haeretici lo­cum docendi adepti sunt: alicubi etiam omissa accurata dili­gentia, invocatione & electione, minus idonei rerum habenis sunt potiti, ut Ire­naeus ad Victorem scribens testatur. Illiric. catalog. test. lib. 2. tit. Eccles. Gubern. Hatina in vita Da­m [...]f 2. Adeo enim inolevera [...] hic mos, ut jam cuique ambi­tioso liceret Petri sedem inv dere. Id. in vita Bene­dict. 4. Vbi cum ipsis opibus lascivi­re caepit Ecclesia Dei, versis ejus cultoribus a severitate ad lisciviam, &c. T C. repl. 1. pag. 23. Ibid. Leo. Epist. 40. Concil. Ni [...]. 2. August. oper brev. collat. cap 5. & [...]i. 2 con [...]r ep [...]set Par­men. ca. 13. Georg. P [...]nce An­ [...]t sol. 66. ought to be according to the Rules of the Word: before he enter into the Ministerie, he should be blame­lesse, apt to teach, sound in Faith; and much more is he to ap­prove himself to be such a one in the execution, considering that falls in the execution are much more dangerous to the Church, than before. But defects in the election doe not make the cal­ling it selfe utterly unlawfull. If one blame-worthy be elected or tolerated after, he is not to be reputed as one that ministers altogether without a calling. Therefore the Non-conformists never taught that the Minister is not to be heard, or that wee must not hold communion with him in the Ordinances of Worship, who is not elected and ordained by the societie where he is to administer; though they maintain the consent of the people to be essentiall to the full compleat call of a Mini­ster to that place and people. Thus they doe professe in answere to this and such like accusations. Where (saith T.C.) doe they reason thus, The Word of God is not preached, because the Mnisters are not rightly proved and elected, &c. Is it all one to say it is not purely preached, & it is not truly preached, &c. They nver said, that there is no Ministerie in England, nor yet doe ever conclude, that there is no Word, nor Sacraments, nor Discipline, nor Church.

Herein they affirme or teach nothing, but what the godly learned in all ages have acknowledged. Anatolius consecrated of Dioscorus, was approved of Leo and Tharasius. The Or­thodox Fathers professed, so the Donatists would returne to the Catholike, true and Apostolicall Faith or Doctrine, they would not disallow their Bishops, that they might understand (saith Augustine) that Catholikes did not detest Christian con­secration, but humane errour. We use this moderation (saith George Prince Anhalt) That they who are called forth to Paro­chiall offices, if they promise that they for the time to come, will preach the Word purely, and administer the Sacraments, according [Page 30]to Christs institution, we receive them, Horumque contenti vo­catione, See Grat. Decret. 2 part. ca. 2. Qu. 7. ca. 8.18, 19, 20. &. ca. 1. qu. 1. ca. 52. Socrat. hist. l. 1. ca. 9. Art. Smal. par. 3. art. 10. Stay. §. 11. p. 133. Par. in Heb. 5.4. & Stay. §. 4. p. 30. Par. in Rom. 10.14, 15. Legitima au­tem vocatio ecclesiae est, quae in quâvis ecclesiâ publica au­thoritate ordinis causâ ad aedificatio­nem instituta. Dan. in 1. Tim 5. pag. 363.364. & pag. 343. Stay. §. 4. pag. 30. & §. 11. pag. 113. For. Iren. l. 2. cap. 11 prop. 13. tit. de Haeretic. Certe ad agnoscimus de omni­bus clericis haereticis, quoad jus liciti exer­citii, & quoad alios u [...]ab corum commu­nione abstincant, & cis non obediant: sed non est accipiendum de onmibus haereticis quoad valorem exer­citii in Sacramen­torum administratio­ne: licet iniustae eorum censurae, etiā ipso iure nullae sint. & muneris demandati commissione, ordinationem & ma­nus impositionem non iteremus. So Art. Smal. Si. Episcopi suo officio recte fungerentur, & cur am ecclesiae & Evangelii gere­rent, &c.

Pareus is praysed by your self, as an interpreter one of a thousand, and oft cited by you in this matter, as one that con­demneth the hearing of them that are unlawfully sent. But according to Pareus. He is lawfully sent, who is called, according to the order which is instituted by publique authoritie in every Church, for order sake, and to edification. Danaeus sharply tax­eth the manner of calling Ministers, which be conceived to be in use in England, and is againe and againe alledged by you in this question: but he doth admonish withall, that we must di­stinguish betweene a calling maimed, and none at all, Ex his autem omnibus (saith hee) apparet quam nulla sit, vel non legiti­ma eorum verbi Dei Ministrorum, vel ecclesiae Pastorum vocatio, qui solius regis, vel reginae, vel patroni, vel episcopi, vel Archie­piscopi authoritate, diplomate, bullis, jussu & judicio fit vel eligi­tur. Id quod dolendum est, adhuc fieri in iis ecclesiis, quae tamen purum Dei verbum habent & sequuntur, veluti in media Anglia. Nam Anglos homines alio qui sapientissimos, acutissimos, & pien­tissimos, in istis tamen papisticae idololatriae, & tyrannidis reliquiis agnoscendis & tollendis, scientes prudentesque caecutire mirum est. Itaque praeclare sentiunt, qui omnem illam chartulariam & epi­scopaticam curionum & pastorum Ecclesiae creandorum rationem, item ex solo episcopi consensu, & diplomate ministrorum verbi cae­lestis vocationem, approbationem & inaugurationem damnant, tol­lendamque ex reformata ad Dei verbum Ecclesiâ censent: quòd ordo Dei verbo praescriptus in ordinatione hujusmodi personarum sit praetermissus, ac violatus, sicut perspicue apparet. Denique & Senatui Ecclesiastico & populo Christiano jus omne suum atque suffragium misere sit hac ratione & in hoc genere vocationum ec­clesiasticarum ademptum, & in unum quendam Episcopum mag­nâ tyrannide atque abusu translatum. Dominus Deus talibus corruptionibus, quae adhuc in Ecclesiis ipsius supersunt, & defen­duntur, mederi magna sua misericordia dignetur & velit, quae tandem certè magnam ecclesiae Dei ruinam secum trahent & ip­sum sacrosanctum verbi ministerium reddent efficientque vel mercenarium, vel omnino contemptibile & abjectum. Quod Do­minus avertat.

Ʋna modo Quaestio superest in hoc argumento, Nimirum quid de corum administratione sit sentiendum, qui non sunt legitime vo­cati, atque utrum iis sana conscientia adhaerere debeamus? In quâ certe distinguendum est, Aut enim est omnine illegitima vo­catio ejus, qui ecclesiam aliquam administrat, vel non est omnino illegitima, sed tantum ex parte. Illegitima omnino est ea, in qua omnia Dei verbo praescripta, sunt praetermissa vel violata, ut si quis seipsum intruserit privatâ authoritate. Non omnino, sed tan­tum ex parte illegitima est ea, in quâ tantum quaedam ex illis non observata fuerunt, sed praetermissa. T.C. to his Sister An. Stubs. This is the stone that you often, or rather alwayes stumble at, That if there be any thing wanting in the Church, which the Lord hath re­quired, that in stead you should thereof conclude, that the Church is with us imperfect; you conclude it is no Church at all. Whereas in the constitution of a mans body, some parts are required to the being of a man, as the Head, heart, &c. and some to comelinesse, as hands, &c. So it is in the body of a Church: some things are requi­red to the being of a Church, and other things to the beau­ty and perfection of it. If it be not of the being of a Church, alwayes to have a Ministerie, much lesse is it of the being of the Church, alwayes to have the free choice thereof. Ergo cujus omnino illegitima vocatio est, is certè pro privato habendus est, ac hujusmodi voca­tio pro nulla. Itaque neque sacramenta conferrè potest, neque reli­qua negotia ecclesiae gerere, & quae gessit pro nullis habentur, nisi fortasse esset extraordinaria ejus vocatio, id est, quae signis testimo­niisque certis a Deo confirmata esset. Solaenim propagati Evan­gelii & fructus qui inde multus emergit, consideratio non confir­mat hujusmodi omnino illegitimam vocationem, utique neque fae­tus enatus illegitimam copulam, quae intercessit inter adulteros. Vitium autem illud tolli potest, si postea ordine & legitime vocetur is, qui primum illegitime in Ministerio versabatur. Qui autem ex partetantum illegitime est electus & vocatus, veluti si per Simoniam quis munus adeptus est, & non legitimo populi vel Se­natus ecclesiastici consensu, consensu tamen gradum obtinet, non est habenda pro omnino nulla hujusmodi vocatio, sed vitium illud est corrigendum. Itaque isti Sacramenta conferre possunt, quia ut­cunque non omnino veram & satis legitimam vocationē habeant, habent tamen aliquam. Sic Scribae & Pharisaei in cathedra Mo­sis sedebant. Sic Caiaphas in Pontificatu summo crat, quem pretio redemerat. Itaque exemplo & Apostolorum & Christi ipsius, qui eos monuit & reprehendit, non autem secessionem a corpore Eccle­siae fecit, ab iis nos segregare in alium caetum non debemus, nec a to­to Ecclesiae corpore (Jd enim esset Donatistarum haeresin revo­care) sed pacem Ecclesiae, quantum in nobis est, colere nos oportet, etsi illud vitium quod in eorum personis & electione inhaeret, damnare oportet, & quantum possumus tum emendare, tum etiam emendatum velle.

Hac ratione fit, ut etiam a sacrificulis Papisticis collatus Bap­tismus non sit in Ecclesia Dei repetendus, & pro nullo habendus. [Page 32]Etsi enim in Ecclesiae Dei illegitimam vocationem Papistici Sa­crificuli habent, tamen ex consensu populi habent aliquam. Est autem aliud ( ut ait August.) August. contr. Par­menian. l. c. 13. aliquid prorsus non habere, aliud autē aliquid perniciosè habere; aliud autē aliquid salubriter habere. Quod tertium solum nobis eligendum est. Sed tamen, uti Ma­gistratus vitio creatus, Magistratus tamen est propter populi con­sensum, Lib. 5. de l [...]ng La­tin. quemadmodum docet Varro: ita isti Sacrifici, etsi vitio creati sunt Episcopi & Presbyteri, ut [...], potius quam [...], sint meritò appellandi, tamen quadantenus Presbyteri sunt & Episcopi, praesertim apud eum populum qui in eo consensit. Thus farre Danaeus, whose testimonie I have rehearsed at large, that every man may see with what fidelitie you quote Authors, 1 Admonit. p. 1. CAN. Neces. of sep. c. 4. §. 2. p. 173. as making for you. You cite out of the admonition, that the Non-conformists complaine, That they have not scarce the face of a Church. But this accusation, long since hath been answe­red, that in saying the face of the Church doth not so much ap­peare (for so the whole processe of their book doth declare, that they meane when they say, That we are scarce come to the outward face of the same:) T. C. repl. 1. p. 175. Albeit I have shewed how u [...] ­true it is, that the admonition affir­meth, that there is no Church in England, yet I can­not passe by the se­cret Philosophy, whereby Mr. Do­ctor would prove that the Authors of the admonition affirme it T.C. repl. 1. p. 23. T.C. repl. 1 p. 51. & 2. repl. par. 1. p. 369. Hos. 4.6. CAN. Neces. of Sep. p. 9. & 31. T.C. repl. 2. par. 1. p. 273. they grant that wee have the true Church of God: but that for want of those ordinances which it should have, and through certaine the deformed rags of Poperie, which it should not have, the Church doth not appeare in her native colours, and so beautifull, as it is meet she should be prepared to so glorious an Husband, as the Son of God.

Master Cartwright severely reprehendeth the abuses of the Ignorant Ministers, which in respect of the place which they occupie, are Idols: because they stand for that, and make shew of that, which they are not: and therupon he addeth, admit you them as often as you will, the Lord pronounceth, that they shall be no Mi­nisters to him, which have no knowledge. This you cite many times. But in two things, Master Cartwright explaineth him­selfe: first, That through ignorance of that which they doe, some of them may be good men, and secondly, that his meaning was to note, how unworthy they are, as of the office, so of the name of a Minister of the Gospel; not to make void their Ministe­rie? such as it is, in the administration of the Sacraments, which faith hee, I confesse, as in the Popish Priests Baptisme, for that they be the publike officers appointed thereto, although unduely ad­ministred, to be the holy Sacraments of God.

Out of Master Brightman, B [...]ight. in Apoc. 3. you make a large discourse of the base and shamefull beggerlinesse of the Clergie; as that the [Page 33]Curates are both in very deed, and in all mens account, a com­pany of beggarly fellows, and those that by means of their more full purses, walke more lustily, they run up and downe, bribe, impudently, importunately begge, and flatter, CAN. Necess. of Sep. p. 19, 20.21. to com­passe Ecclesiasticall promotions, &c. But you tell us not, how he doth immediately after, in many words, and with strong reasons, consonant to the Non-conformists Principles, disprove and censure your Separation, as wicked and ungodly, which be­cause you omit, I will present unto the Reader. Sed nun­quidergo (saith he) destituti sumus ab omni bono? nequaquam; sed gemino adhuc fruimur electis salutari: quorum primum est, introitus Christi ad [...]os qui aperiunt, Secundum suavissimum, eorundem apud Christum accubatio. Illud est dulcissimum solati­um recipiendi Christum, quod percipiunt Sancti, quoties ad ver­bum praedicatum aperiri corda per fidem opera Spiritus sentiunt. Tunc enim ingreditur & nobiscum caenat, Parker of the Crosse p [...]t 2. cap. 9 § 2. pag 113. The second slan­der of the ceremo­nies [...]ccuseth us for Dona [...]ists, whom the Anabaptists [...]vive, with either of whom have we to doe? For be­sides that wee make no Separati­on, as they did then, and there doe now we are as for both from h [...]ir judgement, and from their practice, as our [...]sers, &c. The first position of the Donatists was, That the Church is pure, without spot, and without wrinkle in this life, and whereas Christian Churches tolerated fa­mous men, advanced also one Caecilan, accused of re [...]a, se, they held it their duty to separate from them, as being no true Churches. [...] see here a perfect image of the Brownists, and of the Anabaptists, but not so much as any li [...]ament of any English Protestant Preacher, that is desirous of reformation. impertiendo seipsum be­nignissimè & jucundissime; quemadmodum quidem Zachaeum cupientem illum videre, & in Sycomorum ascendentem descendere jussit, & sibi parare apud se hospitium. Luk. 19.5, &c. Nec [...] caenat, qui sic amplectentibus eum hoc iis tribuit, ut fi­lii Dei fiant. Joh, 1.12. Ille vicissim nos excipit, ut un [...] cum eo caenemus, quoties integris animis accedimus ad Sacramentum cae­nae. In qua perfidem nos carne sanguineque suo pascit, lautissimis deliciis, supra omne quod vel dici vel cogitari potest. Quo sensu dictum est apud Lucam, cap. 13.29. Tunc venient ab Oriente & Occidente & Borea & Austro, & discumbent in regno Dei, i. e. homines ex omnibus oris ad Evangelium confluent, amplectentur doctrinam regni, veréque Christi participes fient, cujus pignora capient, Panem & Ʋinum, discumbentes ad ejus mensam in c [...]le­brandâ Sacrâ caenâ. Loquitur enim de vocatione Gentium, qu [...] ­rum fidem & ascensionem in totam veritatem per un [...]m sacramen­talem actionem designat. Hos jam convivas Christus vocaret, cum interin, Judaei, de quibus agitur in illâ parabola, prorsus a ratione salutis abhorrerent, uti factam jam vidimus per multa secula: Quo pertinet etiam illud, quod ibidem afferunt exclusi Judaei, po­stulantes [Page 34]sibí aditum, propter pristinam familiaritatem edendi bibendique in ejus conspectu, supra. V. 26. q. d. Nos saep [...], Domi­ne, communicati mensâ tuâ hilare convivium tecum agitavimus, eden do ex tuis sacrificiis: an fores nunc contra nos obserabu? Haec enim ratione Iudaeis idem erat cibus sacrificiorum, quod panis & vinum nobis. Neque tamen haec ita sunt accipienda, quasi gaudi­um electorum finibus hujus vitae circumscriberetur, sed quia caena quae peragitur in terris, est pignus aeterni convivii in caelis. Haec igitur docens duplex adbuc & ingens bonum in Anglicanae Ec­clesia residere, Praedicationem nimirum verbi, & legitimam Sa­cramentorum administrationem. In quibus utrisque se Christus suis impertit, mutuum convivium cum eis celebrans, ipse primum per auditionem a nobis exceptus, deinde caena sui corporis nos vi­cissim excipiens. O nos igitur sordidissimos, quoties a verbo au­diendo refugimus, Christum enim convivam respuimus. O nos impios contemptores, quoties recipiendo Sacramento cum fratribus nos subducimus: Christum enim vocantem ad Caenam spernimus. Sed haec adiiciuntur in singulare solatium piorum: Etenim qui non trepidarent & de fugiendo quamprimum ab hac Ecclesiâ cogi­tarent; cum audirent exosam esse Christo conditionem ministre­rum, quos brevi non resipiscentes ev [...]miturus sit ex ore, nisi verbis ipsius Christi certiores fierent de suâ cum co cōmunicatione? Laus igitur tibi, mitissime Agne, qui fores occlusas contra offendens, non statim te proripis furore percitus, nosque pro meritis omni ra­tione salutis orbas, sed luculentam adhuc tui copiam relinquis omnibus, qui tibi per verbum pulsanti aperiunt, & suavissimam tuam invitationem per Sacramenta non spernunt: Igitur scelestus & blasphemus est corum error, Parker de polit Eccl. lib. 1. ca. 14. Quo [...] pr [...]ese [...] cum Anglia [...]ba vitae aeternae [...]a [...]eat. Ioh 6.68. Ibid. Non in [...]urid [...] jectione, sed i [...] fundament [...] ipsius elemolitione separatio dunt axat licita. J [...]id. Aquibus vos separate? 1 Tim. 6.3.5. Ac loquitur Pau­lus de fund [...] [...] corr [...]ptione doctrinae ill us quae est secun. pietatem. Separavit Discipu [...]os Paulus? Act. 19.9.28. Athae separatio a Iudaeis erat ipsa Evangelii fundament [...] blasphemantibus. Postremò siparationem illam [...] praec pitur. 1 Cor. 5.11. Psal. 17.4. 2 Pet 28. 2 Tim. 3.5. At nulla in [...]is Script [...] locis [...] privata praecipitur, quae samiliaritate abstinct mal [...]feri [...]torum hominum [...] Nullam igitu separationis vestrae in Scripturis, a [...] exemplum piorum homin [...]m, aut precept [...] ophetarum & Apostolorum [...]x [...]at, &c. qui sic ab ha [...] ecclesia deficiunt, quasi Christus hinc prorsus exularet; nec ulla spes salutis manen­tibus esse posset. Cogitent hic Christum convivantem cum suis. An pudebit eos illic discumbere, ubi vident Christum non pudere? An illo sanctiores & mundiores erunt? Sed quare se non convin­cunt suo ipsorum usu? Non possunt inficiari, quin prius in Chri­stum creded runt, quam fecerunt a nobis divortium: unde haec fi­des? Annon ex praedicatione in nostra Ecclesia? Numquid ergo [Page 35]praedicare quis potest nisi mittatur? Rom. 10.13, &c. Quid ergo verbum propter labem aliquam externae vocationis tam perverse respuunt, cujus vim divinam in cordibus sentiunt? Etiamsi fructus ipse non magis culpâ liberat depravationes nostras, quam vera proles adulterium. Nec igitur nobis in iis acquiescendum est, nec iis. a nobis propter aliquos naevos deficiendum. Quam­obrem redite ad unitatem Ecclesiae, quae vos genuit & aluit. Si fugiatis hunc Christum, qui cum electis in nostris caetibus caenat, ac eos vicissim excipit, profectò nusquam invenietis. Interim cogitemus etiam nos, quantum nobis ipsis malum accersimus, qui mordicùs retinendo superstitiones nostras, fratres in tantum peri­culum coniicimus. Certe si quid momenti habet, quod olim con­firmavit ipsa veritas, praestaret hujusmodi hominibus suspensa mola asinaria in collis, demergi in profundo maris. Matth. 18.6. Vtrisque sanitatem mentis precor.

Here wee see the Non-conformists agreeable to the Scri­pture, sound reason, the consent of all Antiquitie, and their own Principles doe plainely distinguish betwixt a maime or defect in the calling of a Minister, and no calling at all: that it is great ignorance, or (to speak most favourably▪) inconsideratenesse to charge them, as if they went against their own Principles, in holding Communion with the Churches of England in the or­dinances of Gods worship.

And if haste had not blinded, Robinson against Bern. reasons di­scuss. p. 285. this you might have observed out of the Separatists themselves. There is (saith one speaking of Baptisme) in this point a further consideration to be had, unto which both the Scriptures, and our owne experience doe lead us: namely, that as the Lord hath his people in Babylon, his I meane, both in respect of election, and of personall sanctification: so hath he for their sakes there preserved (notwithstanding all the Apo­stasie and confusion which is found in it) sundry his holy truths and ordinances, amongst which Baptisme is one. But if his or­dinances be preserved, or any one of them true for substance, of necessity some truth of Ministerie, whereby those ordinances be administred, must bee preserved also.

It is an injurie to the people (as the Non-conformists hold) Whitak, de pont. Rom. contr. 4. qu. 1. cap. 1. Si velimus Christum ipsum respicere, fuit semper ecclesiae regimen monarchicum, si ecclesiae Praebyteros, qui in doctrina & disciplina suas partes agebant, Ar [...]stocraticum: si totum corpus eccle­siae, quatenus in electione episcoporum & presbyterorum suffragia ser [...]bat, ita tamen [...] sem­per Praesbyteris servaretur, Democraticum. Dan. in 1 Tim. 5. pag. 352. [Page 36]that a Minister should be thrust upon them against their wills, or whom they never saw, nor heard of. But if the people be few, simple, apt to be deceived, unable to judge of the fitnesse of a Minister, they stand in need of direction, not onely from their owne Elders, but from other Churches. The practice of the Apostles will confirme this: for sometimes men were pro­pounded unto the Church to be chosen, and sometimes the choice was wholly left unto them. And was not this for our direction, that more libertie may be given, where the danger is lesse, and more caution and restraint used, where the danger is apparant, that if they be left unto themselves, either an ill, or an unfit choice shall be made? In reason it is evident, for the childs consent is required in marriage, and the more able he is to chuse for himselfe, the more liberty may Parents grant him in his choice, but if he be not able, or lesse able, the more watchfull must they be over him; and so in this matter.

The Presbyters are to goe before the people in the exami­nation, Heb. 18.7. Tert. in [...]pol. c. 39. approbation and designement of a man fit for the Mini­sterie: for they are guides, to whom the chiefe care and directi­on of things Ecclesiasticall doth belong. As for the people, it is not their office, and for the most part, they are unable to judge of those things. To the people therefore it pertaineth onely to give their consent to him that is chosen, or to shew their reasons why they cannot approve of him, who is pro­pounded, but no testimonie of Scripture, no example, no reason teacheth, Kuclin. Catech. Hol­lant. de legit. [...]ocat. Minist. Th. 10. Pleb [...]damus p [...]testa­tem propanendi si quas habet [...]e usa­ [...]ion [...]s ca [...]sas. that the whole businesse should be committed to the desires and requests of the whole and sole multitude.

The consent of the people is not required to the common ele­ction, whereby a good, godly, learned, fit Man was chosen to the Ministerie, but to the singular election of a Minister, where­by he is chosen to be set over this or that congregation. Or if that expression be lyable to some exception, Ion. animad [...] in Bell co [...]. 5. l. 1. ca. 3. not. 3. & ca. 7 [...]ot. 7. Ibid. not 24.26. The consent of the people is not required in this, Whether such a man be fit for the Ministerie and meet to be set apart for the worke of the Lord: but whether he be fit or meet to be their Minister, by whom they may be edified, and builded up in Faith and holi­nesse. Of the former, they have no calling or right to judge: but in the latter they have great interest.

Brotherly societie requireth, that we mutually admonish, exhort, reprove and comfort each other, as occasion is offered, and when need requireth, it is the duty of neighbour-Churches [Page 37]to lend helpe to their brethren, in the choice and election of their Minister. Iun Eccles. l. 3. ca. [...]. For if Churches have not fit men amongst them for the Ministerie, nor able men to make choice for them­selves, they are to be holpen in love, without prejudice to their libertie, and not to be discarded and cast off as unworthy the name of a Church: When the Scripture willeth, that one should admonish another, it is not only a cōmandement to every singu­lar man towards his fellow, Heb. 3.13. Rom. 15.14. Rom. 12.12 Car [...]w. repl. 2. par. 1. p. 23 1. but also to one whol company to­wards another society. St. Paul, when he teacheth that all the faithful are mēbers of one mysticall body of Christ, who ought to have a mutual care one of another, laid the foundation of this policie. Bellar asketh, Quo jure unus populus episcopum alterius populi eligere potest? Junius answereth; Bellar. de Cl [...]r. l. 1. c. 7. Iun. Ibid. cap 7. not. 13. & eccld. 3. c. 1. Not 24. Certè charitatis jure & communionis sanctorum: nam populus infidelis ipse non potest eligere, utpote nondum vocatus, sed postea vocandus ad Christum. And a little after, to Bellarmine, objecting the dangers which may follow in popular elections, hee answereth. The danger is not so great, ubi conjunctus est Clerus, & actionem dirigit Presby­terium, praesertim consilio & auctoritate vicinorum Episcopo­rum & Ecclesiarum accedente. And after that, Et boni vicini quoque accedant ex ordine, Not. 27. & fratres alti ex communi offi­cio charitatis, si quando opus est, prout Ambrosium fecisse Ne­diolanensi Ecclesiae narrat Theodor. hist. lib. 4. cap. 7.

In the Primitive times, one Church might elect and chuse a Pastor for another, and the Governours of one Church were chosen by the confent and suffrage of others. Ignatius writeth thus to the Philadelphians, It behoveth you as the Church of God, to chuse a Bishop. Of what Church would Ignatius have the Philadelphians to chuse a Bishop? Not of their owne, The Church of Christ was guided by the common con [...]en [...], and mu­tuall agreement of both parts, as well East as West, as a peares in the case of Athanasiu [...] [...] A­rian. Haec quidem Aegyptii ad omnes & ad episcopum Roman [...] I [...]l um scrips [...]e. [...] apol. 2. Sozom l. 3. c. 7.10, 11. Ignat. ad [...] [...]. Theod. l. 2. ca. 4. Basil. Ep. 48. [...] Athan. & [...]1. occiden [...] [...] & 69. [...] & Gallis & 70. Gall. et Jtal. ep [...]se. & 74. occident. ep se. See [...] [...] Or to fend some sufficient legate to heale the breach that was made, and quench the flame that was kindled in his Church at Antioch. [...] Govern. ca. 7. pa. 76. [...] 13. Cy­yrian meant this of such mutuall a [...]d and concord, as might profit the Church, and well be­seem the servants of Christ, but allows not that men should run to [...] for helpe, against the judgement and acts of their Pastors. Cypr. [...] Epist. 3. & 4. for in the beginning of his Epistle, he greatly commendeth the Bishop which they had already. But he exhorteth them to e­lect a Pastor of the Church at Antioch, as the words before go­ing [Page 38]doe make it evident. All Bishops (saith Cyprian) sunt mutuae comcordiae glutine copulatae, that if any one hold haeresie, the rest should helpe: and therefore he moved Stephanus the Pope to write to the Bishops in France, that they should de­pose the Bishop of Arles, and to the people, that they should chuse another in his roome. Theod. l. 5. c. 23. Cypr. l. 4. epist. 8. See Iun. Eccles. l 3. c. 1 Amb epist. 82. See what Socrates re­porteth of the ele­ction of Chrysost. Socr. hist. l. 6. ca. 2. Theod. hist. l. 4. c. 6 See Theod. bust. l. 5. c. 8. Sozom. l. 7. c. 8. Socr. l. 6. c. 2. Iun. eccles. l. 3. c. 1. Erat sanetum talis politia in Ecclesia, si­cut membrorum in uno corpore, ubi om­nia uni compatiun­tur, prespuiunt & medentur. Illitici catal. test. lib. 2. p. 109. Theodoret testifieth, In the or­dination of a Bishop, All the Bishops of a Province ought to be called together: Cornelius, Bishop of Rome, was confirmed of the Bishops of Africk. Gregorius Presbyter, in the life of Na­zianzene, affirmeth of the Bishops of Macedonia and Egypt, that they contradicted the election of Nazianzene, because he was made Bishop before they came: Ambrose writeth, That his ele­ction was confirmed of all the Bishops of the East and West: and Theodoret, That Valentinian the Emperor confirmed it also.

Election therefore was not ever made by the particular con­gregation, where the Pastor or Teacher was to administer, but other Churches, and specially the Guides, by common consent were called to assist the Church in that weighty businesse. And this the Non-conformists judge not only lawfull, but meet, ex­pedient, necessary in some cases. And therefore in many par­ticulars, they except against the proposition, as none of theirs, and against your confident assertion, that you were sure the pro­positions were both theirs, when as it is neither found in them, nor in any writer, ancient or moderne, nor in the holy Scri­ptures.

And when you peruse the testimonies alledged, Rhemists annot. in Ioh. 10. §. 1. be judge your selfe, whether you did not grossely mistake, or abuse your Reader, when you cite the Rhemists, as if they pleaded for the Parochial election of a Pastour, as onely lawfull.

As for the Assumption, It is true, the Ministers of the Church of England are not ordained by the particular Congregations, where they administer, nor is it necessarie to a true and entire calling, that it should be so. That they be not approved of the particular society, is false in many of them: for they are cho­sen by their consent, to be their Ministers, though not absolute­ly to the Ministerie it selfe. And in case they be not so called, it is a maime and defect, Parker de polit. Ec­cl. l. 1. c. 14. Dedu­cere quidem conantur illi ex majoribus nostris minores quasdam, sed & absurdas & inconsequentes. Ne­que enim si necessaria disciplina sit, & in verbo Dei tradita idcirco, separatio sicubi corrumpatur, sacienda s [...]atim est, nulla connexionis vi hoc porisina sequitur. which should be reformed, whether it [Page 39]be through the ignorance of the people, or the Lawes of the Kingdome, or the pride and covetousnesse of them that thrust themselves into that calling, or neglect of Patrons, or what else soever: But this maime doth not make a nullitie of their calling, nor the Word and Sacraments dispensed by them to be ineffectuall. For in every Church where the doctrine of sal­vation is soundly and intirely preached and professed, the cal­ling of the Ministerie is for substance true and lawfull. The Nonconformists therefore in reproving the abuses of the Mini­sterie and yet holding communion with the Church of Eng­land in the ordinances of worship, See Calvin. Instit. l. 4. c. 1. §. 12, 13, 14, 15, &c. doe walke according to their own Principles, the doctrine and practice of the Chur­ches of God in all ages, and direction of the holy Scri­tures.

The Non-conformists reprove the tumults of the people in election, without the direction of the Presbyters, Whitak. de pont. Rom. contr. 4. qu. 1. c. 2 p. 16. I [...]a v. ad­missa est populi mul­titudo, ut vitaretur omnis [...], ne ecclesia esset [...]. ut Act. 19.32. Bilson. perpet Gov. Epist. to the Read. Right Apostolick Bishops were such as were left or sent by the Apostles to be Pastors of the Church, and Governors of the Presbyteries in e­very city that be­leeved, so long as they ruled well: and in their stead, as their successors, to receive charge of ordaining o­thers for the worke of the Ministerie, and guiding the Keyes with the advice and consent of such as laboured with them in the Word and Doctrine. Id. ca. 4. Without proofe, the Church must not beleeve, nor regard thy speech: and proofe thou hast none. One and the same person cannot be both Accusant and Deponent: and in the mouth of one witnesse, though his testimony were received, yet may no man be condemned. See Beza annot. Ma­ier. in. Matth. 18.7. both their owne and Neighbouring Churches: so did the Ancients. The Ordination of Bishops by themselves alone, or their Chap­laines, and that of many at a clap: so did the Ancients. The thrusting of Ministers upon the people without their know­ledge or consent: so did the Ancients. The ordination of Ministers without cure or charge: so did the Ancients. The ignorance, idlenesse, pride, luxurie, pompe, covetousnesse, con­tention and schisme of such as thrust themselves rashly, ambiti­ously, profanely into offices, by favour, monie, flatterie, or o­ther corruption: so did the Ancients. They reprove these, and such like abuses, and humbly seek and sue for reformation, but tolerate what they cannot amend, and hold communion with the Churches of God in the Ordinances of Religion: and so did the Ancients.

And if the Ancients did neither lay the grounds of Separa­tion, nor walke contrary to their owne Principles, in holding communion, it is great ignorance, at least, to charge the Non­conformists, as if they walked not according to their owne rules, when they doe not separate.

Nay, if the Non-conformists should not disallow both your positions and practice of Separation, they should not walke a­greeable to their owne Principles, or the truth of Scripture. For you hold, the power of the keyes originaliter, and execu­tivè, is given to the community of the faithfull, many or few, yea though but two or three joyned together in a Church way. This the Nonconformists approve not: You hold it is neces­sary and essentiall to the calling of a Minister, that he be appro­ved, chosen and ordained only by that congregation, where he is to administer. This the Nonconformists altogether dislike. You hold all Ministers that be not chosen and ordained after your forme propounded, to be unlawfull, Idol, Antichristian Mi­nisters. This the Nonconformists judge to be Antichristian. The consequence of your Positions is this, That since the Church of the New Testament was established upon the earth, there was scarce a true lawfull Ministerie to be found, where with the faithfull might lawfully hold communion in the worship of God. This the Non-conformists doe detest and abhorre. Of other your positions in the Sections follow­ing.

SEC. III. CAN. Stay against Stray. Sect. 1. pag. 4, 5.

WHatsoever God hath bestowed upon his Church, as her priviledge, the same is to be found in his Word: But it is not mentioned there, that Beleivers (as their priviledge) ought to heare Antichristian Teachers.

The proposition is unquestionably certaine by these Scriptures. Psal. 19.7. 2 Tim. 3.15.16. Isai. 8.20. Ioh. 15.17. Act. 20.27. Besides, Contra Gentes. this is the unanimous consent of learned writers. The Scriptures (saith Athanasius) doe helpe us with the know­ledge of every truth, &c.

The first part which is only controversall is evident and cleere, Anno. in 1 Cor. 10. §. 21. in 1 Reg. cap 5. v. 19. by these Scriptures. Levit. 17.3.4. Deut. 12.5. Prov. 5.8. Hos. 4.15. Matth. 7.15. 2 Cor. 7.15, 16, 17. Rev. 18.4. Song. 1.6, 7. To this all sorts of Writers assent, Zanch. on Phil. [Page 41]3.2. The Authors of the Admonition. pag. 27, &c. Yea the Papists themselves, Rhemists and Doway Translators.

ANSWER.

THe sinewes of this Argument are cut already in the first Section, if ever it had any, and therefore a few words may now suffice. In this reason you take for granted, that which is most false, little lesse than blasphemie; to wit, that all Ministers in the Church of England be Anti­christian. For they are in respect of the substance of their of­fice, the Ministers of Jesus Christ, set apart to preach the Go­spel, dispense the Sacraments, and administer the Discipline of the Lord Christ: and many of them the approved servants of Christ, furnished with gifts from above, sent forth by autho­ritie to preach the Gospel of God, and dispense his Sacraments, which they faithfully execute, according to commission recei­ved from their Lord and Master, the King of the Church, who worketh by them, and blesseth their labours, if ever ordinary Ministers had cause to speake of, and rejoyce in the blessing of God, to the praise of his name.

But to let that passe, Antichristian Teachers (if I must speak in your owne language) be of divers sorts:

1. Such as be not called in every point according to your platforme, or at least whose calling is in any respect maymed or defective, though they be godly, learned, painfull, every way fit, set apart by authority, and approved by the Church. If An­tichristian Teachers be taken in this sense, true Beleevers living in societies with them are bound to heare the Word, and par­take in the Sacraments, because they be the ordinances of the Lord Jesus, who is present, knocking at the doore of the heart, and will come in and sup with them that open unto him. So long as wee teach the same doctrine which the Apostles did, we have the same povver and autho­rity to Preach, which they had. B [...]s. Chrill [...] part 3. p. [...] Look what reasons soever can be alledged to prove that Christians ought to joyne together in holy communion, the same will strongly convince, that ordinarily, or occasionally we must hold societie with such Ministers in the ordinances of piety and god­linesse. And if this Ministerie be Antichristian, divers, if not most worthy Martyrs of Jesus Christ, that have withstood An­tichrist unto blood, have stood under some ordinances, in their first originall, Antichristian, or of men in some respects, which [Page 42]did not overthrow, though it might be some blemish unto their Ministerie.

2. Such as be not rightly called by men, because not rightly furnished with gifts, or faithfully executing their place, or teaching erroneous doctrines and traditions of men, but yet set apart to an office which is of God, and in communion of men professing the true Faith, are called Antichristian Ministers. And if it be taken in this sense, the faithfull are bound in con­science to heare such, if they live in their societies: because they be the Ministers of Christ in a sort, though they be not approved of him, and doe his worke for the good of them that be heires of salvation. But in so doing, they doe not communi­cate with the Ministers of Antichrists apostasie, but with the Lord Christ in his holy ordinance, by such meanes as he hath ap­pointed. Hieron. l. 1. Com in Eph. ad Galat. cap. 1. Hierome noteth, that there are foure sorts, who are employed in the businesses and affaires of Almighty God. The first, such as are sent neither of men, nor by men, but by Jesus Christ. The second, such as are sent of God, but by man. The third are such as are sent of man and not of God, who are they that are ordained by favour of Men, not rightly judging of the quality of them who are to serve in this calling. Who yet are not simply denyed to be sent of God, as if they had not commis­sion from him, but therefore only, because if the choosers and ordainers had done their duties, they should have made a better choice. For being sent by men that have authoritie, though a­busing the same, wee cannot say they have no true or lawfull Ministery: for then were all ministration of the Sacraments, and other sacred things void, performed by scandalous, un­godly Ministers, and such as by sinister meanes get into these ho­ly places. The fourth are of such as are neither sent of God, nor of men, nor by men, but runne of themselves, and have no calling at all: who are neither Ministers of Christ for them­selves, nor others. Thus farre Hierome.

3 Such are Antichristian Ministers, as teach false doctrine, be set apart to an office meerely of men, contrary to the Word of God, and live in communion and societie with men professing reall idolatrie, as members of that societie, though somewhat of God be joyned in this their profession. Whereunto may be referred such as being tried, are found to be false Prophets, cen­sured and cast out of the Church by them that have authority. Of which sort are those Hereticks, which are condemned of [Page 43]their own conscience, and after once or twice admonition, are to be shunned.

4 Such are Antichristian, as be meerely from men, dispense onely the things of Antichrist, and have nothing of God at all. If by Antichristian Teachers be meant false Prophets, Thom. Becon. his humble supplicat. unto God, &c. written in Queen Martes daies. Vol. 2. Purge our temples of all Popish abo­minations, of cere­monies, of Images, of Altars, of Copes, of Vestments, of Pixes, of Crosses, of Censers, of Ho­ly Water buckets, of holy Bread Baskets, of Chis­matories, &c. a­bove all, Idola­trous Priests, and ungodly ignorant Curates. Chaloner. The Orig. and progr. of Hae­resie. This change of their use, by oc­casion of Altars, and other ceremo­mes which crept in, as also by reason of the figurative speeches of the Ancients, &c. produced in the end, a doubt of the change of the substance, &c. The Pope first Breve. in this third and fourth acceptation, I grant the faithfull must hold no communion with them, because God hath forbidden it, and these are false Prophets, who have no calling, teach their owne dreames, minister not the things of God, but of men, and ei­ther never were members of the true Church, professing the in­tire faith, or upon their discoverie, are cast forth as unsavorie salt. And this the passages of Scripture, quoted to prove the controversall part, as you say, doe confirme, Whereunto answere hath been given already. And the authours of all sorts alledged, doe consent: for it is most manifest, they speake of false Pro­phets, who have no calling, teach false doctrine, were never members of the Church, or springing up, and continuing in the Church for a time, are censured and cast out, that they might not molest, tare and devoure the Flock. But in this sense, the Ministers of the Church of England be not Antichristian: that which is spoken against false Prophets, cannot be applyed unto them.

And here consider how plentifull you are in proving that which was never questioned; as that the Scripture is perfect, to make the man of God wise unto salvation, that false Pro­phets must not be heard or beleeved, that the Faithfull must come out of Babylon, &c. But that the Ministerie of the Church of England is Antichristian, and the Teachers false Prophets, as the Scripture useth the word in the Texts alledged, this we must take upon your bare word, or most grievous misapplicati­on of the holy Text.

Paul the Fift (you say) in a certaine Bull, sent to the Catho­likes in England, chargeth them by all meanes not to goe to the Parish Churches, or heare their Sermons, least they incurre the wrath of God If this testimony will stand in any steed, the Pope himselfe doth not esteeme our Parish assemblies Anti­christian, for then his Catholikes should not incurre the wrath of God by going unto them. And what you can gaine by this witnesse, I know not, unlesse it be to shew, that how contrary soever you seeme to be unto the Pope or Antichrist, yet in this you consent and agree with him, to condemne Christian com­muni [...] [Page 44]in our Assemblies in the holy exercises of Reli­gion. CAN. [...] p 6 [...] to it, [...] bring [...] himselves un­d [...] greater curse, by using their to agues, and pens to raise up againe one part of the Kingdome of the Beast, which the Lord before had consumed with the breath of his mouth.

Nay, the sentence of the Pope is milde in comparison of that brand which you set upon communicating the ordinances of God in our assemblies, viz. That it tendeth to the putting down of our true King, Christ Jesus, and to raise up Antichrist againe, that bloody Tyrant; which bold ignorant censure must needs worke the soule of every sober minded Christian to su­spect, that in defence of this cause, you consulted with furie, more than with truth, and hoped to winne more with swel­ling words of vanity, than weight of reason. But my purpose is to try your strength, and for unadvised censures, vaine scoffes, and mis-application of common received Truths, I will leave you to the examination of your owne conscience.

SECT. IV.

CAN. Stay against. Sect. 3. pag. 16, 17. & Sect. 2. pag. 14 & Sect. 4. pag. 62. & Sect. 7. pag. 89.

TO worship God in any other way or manner than he hath in his Word prescribed, is unlawfull. But to heare Antichri­stian Ministers in false Churches, is to worship God in a way and manner which he hath not prescribed. The Major, No man dares denie, I assure my selfe. For it is manifest and certaine by the whole course of the Scripture, Deut. 12.8. Levit. 10.20. Psal. 119.133. Mic. 7.18. Hos. 9.15. Ioh. 4.23. Matth. 15.3.4. Col. 2.8. 2 Joh. 16.17. Moreover, all sorts and sects of writers acknowledge this for a Truth. Zanch. explic. in Coloss. 2.23. tom. 4. pag. 319. Luther com. in Galat. cap. 6. pag. 871. Brent. in Amos. cap. 4.

Touching the second part: J may spare all proofs, and send them to their own consciences. That this hearing is a worship, the same is manifest and cleere to any that have an eye of reason, Howson serm. in Psal. 118. p. 7. and any light of Religion shining in them. None to my knowledge, sa­ving a Popish Parasite or two, ever held otherwise. That this worship is done in a way and manner, which the Lord never appoin­ted, [Page 45]it is as cleere as the Sun at noon day, and cannot with any modest face be denyed, &c.

ANSWER.

THis is an old garment new turned, and the same an­swer which was made to the former, might suffice to this: wherein the thing to be proved, B [...]ls. Christ. subj. part 4 p. 345. God hath not charged us to be curious in search­ing his Essence, but to be carefull in observing his Will. He neither takes, nor requires any thing at our hands, beside his Worship; That it we yeeld him ac­cording to his Will, we honor him as our God: if we alter that which he hath ap­pointed for him­selfe, or adde any thing unto it, he rejecteth all our service, as done not unto him, but to the conceit of our hearts, which by nature is no God, &c. Grat. Ca [...]s. 11. Qu. 3. c. 101. Sats, qui praeest. Aug. de Conser. Evang. l. 1. c. 18. Socratis sententia est, Ʋnumquem (que) Deum, sic coliopercere, quomo­dose ipse colendum esse praeceperit. Aug. in Qu. ex veteri Teslam. Qu. 43. Constat [...]den stultam non solum minime prodesse, sed etiam obesse. Chry. in Matth. hom. 51. Disca [...] us Coristum ex ipsius voluntate honorare. Nam qui honoratur, [...]o maximè honore laetatur [...] vuit, non quem nos op­tamus. Bils. d [...]ffer. betw. Christ. Subj. part 1 p. 7. Touching the Sacraments, I [...] Baptisme and the Lords Supper, &c. We swerve not a jot from the example of Christ and his Apostles; the Scriptures vvill not lie, let them be judges. is fairely passed over with a brave flourish of words, and no­thing else. If you meet with such company as will be a­shamed not to see, because you cry out so vehemently, It is as cleere as the Sun, it cannot be denied with any modest face, You may lead him blindfold. But if a man will build upon his owne faith, and not be led by your fansies, he shall never see it proved by any evidence that you have, or can bring, That by communi­cating in our Assemblies in the ordinances of Religion, God is worshipped in any other way or manner than he hath prescri­bed. But seeing this reason is brought so often, and for so ma­ny purposes, I will examine it more particularly.

If the meaning of your proposition bee, That no positive worship, or substantiall means of worship is lawfull, but what is in speciall appointed, or instituted of God, and that no du­ties of Religion be necessary to salvation, but what are taught in Scripture, then we grant it is true, and confirmed by the course of Scripture, though many passages cited by you, will not reach unto it. For the law of nature commandeth all men, who have any sense of a Godhead, to receive, and not give rules of Religion and Worship. The holy care of the Patri­archs was to reverence and obey that which they had received, and to attend upon further direction, but of themselves not to appoint or undertake any thing as necessary to salvation. Di­vine institution of legall and Evangelicall obedience, and wor­ship, is equally full and complete in all things necessary, which [Page 46]it seemed good to divine Wisedome to determine, not leaving any thing of this nature more undetermined in time of the Go­spel, than it was in time of the Law. As the Jews had a com­mandement, neither to adde ought unto, nor take ought from the law, Deut. 4.2. which the Lord gave unto them: so the Apostles recei­ved a charge, to teach whatsoever the Lord commanded them: Whence it is truly observed, Matth. 28.20. Zanch. de Ecript. that men may not teach their own doctrine, but whatsoever Christ hath taught them: for hee reserveth this authoritie to himselfe, to be the onely Teacher and Author of the doctrine, Genev. Bible, annot. in Matth. 28.20. Shew but one word, element, or action added, o­mitted, or altered in either of them, &c. Galv. Instit. l. 4. ca. 10. §. 1.2.5. Hon. Ainsw. first answ. p. 26. That he taught any thing as needfull for salvation, with­out warrant from the Scriptures, I denie. Harm confess. Hel­vetic. confess. cap. 24. Ang. confess. ca. De discrim. cibo­rum. Chamier tom 4. de Sacram. l. 1. c. 13. §. 8. Bils differ. betw. Christ Su [...]j. par. 1. p. 25. This is the duty that Baptisme re­quireth of us, to beleeve no teacher but one, which is Christ, to follow no stranger, to regard, or obey no Lord or Law-maker in the Church, but only the Son, whom the Father appointed to be Master, Leader and Ruler of the Gentiles. Basil. ser. de fide. It is an evident sliding from the faith, &c. either to depart from that which is written, or to receive that which is not written. The King of the Church is her only Lawgiver at all times.

But if the way or manner of Worship be stretched to the circumstances of time, place, order, phrase of speech, and such like, not determined by God in particular, but left to the liber­tie of Christians, so the generall rules of Scripture be observed, then the proposition is not true, the Scriptures doe not confirm it, it was never acknowledged by Divines of any sort or sect that have appeared to the world. For what is in generall on­ly Divine, but in particular left without determination from God, that in it selfe is indifferent and variable: of which sort were the houres of the morning and evening sacrifice, their Synagogues, Oratories, and places of Worship throughout the land of Canaan, their course of reading, and many the like.

What God hath commanded in his Word, that is not left to the libertie of Christians: What is prescribed as necessary, wor­ship, holy, that he hath not left undetermined: But that which may be done this way, or another, at this time, or another, in this forme of speech and method, or another, that in respect of this order, time, method, or phrase of speech, is not neces­sarie, holy, or worship.

Any circumstance, as time, place, or whatsoever else, if it be either appropriated or commanded of God, it is necessarie in point of conscience, holy, and worship, as in conscience it must be observed, and submitted unto. But to place necessitie, ho­linesse or worship in these things, when they be not determi­ned or commanded, is Will-worship, or superstition; lawfull [Page 47]they be, as agreeable to the Word; but not necessary, because not determined by the Word.

The time was when it was lawfull to offer sacrifices upon the high places, Drus. ad dissic. loc. O at. 12. p. 571. Rivet. in Hos. 4.13. Ainsvv. annot. in Levit. 17.5. Iun. annot. in Levit. 17 5. & in 1 Reg. 3.3. Illud in Theologia bonum est, quod De­us praecepit, lex enim Deiperfecta est bonitatis moralis re­gula in Theologia, & prohibitio Divina perfecturest index Theologieus mali iae m [...]ralis Hen. Ainsvv. 3. ans. p. 151. Explicati­ons of Gods Law by them [...]u [...]h of his Ministers, are allowed of God. Neh. 8.8. These are not additions, such as God for­bids. Gal. 3.15. 15 Our question is of other, or moe lavves or Do­ctrines than God hath taught. Scotia Confess. art. 20. Iua. thes. theol. c. 6. thes. 11.12. Quaecunque verò in carcumslantiis posi­ta sant, corumtradi­ [...]i [...]nes in ecclesi [...] â esse au [...]esse posse, verumtamen pat. lares, temporali­liberas agnoscimus; Atque barum quidem traditionum quae in circumstantiis versantur sex sor Paulo 1 Cor. 14, &c. Dan. in 1 Tim. 3.15. Calvin. Inst. 4. l. c. 15 §. 19. & 17. §. 45. [...] resp. ad lib. de pii veri offic. p. 413. Th Beza. cansess. c. 5. art. 18. viz. when the place for Sacrifices was undetermi­ned, and then it had been Will-worship to put holinesse in pla­ces, or opinion of worship. But when God had chosen out, and appropriated one place for Sacrifice, and none other, then it was a matter of necessitie, holinesse, and worship, to sacrifice there, and a great sinne to doe it any where else.

The reason hereof, was not simply because it was not com­manded, for when it was lawfull to the Fathers of Old, it was not commanded, but left undetermined only, and used by them as a circumstance or adjunct allowed, not as a matter of ne­cessitie, holinesse or worship; not could they have used it so without superstition; as on the other side, after the strict com­mandement given to Israel, to sacrifice in the place which God had chosen, and none other, and the place of worship pre­cisely determined for typicall signification, it was a part of true worship, in conscience necessarie: for them to doe other­wise, was grievously to transgresse, and not to doe that which was commanded as necessary, holy; and worship, had been prophanenesse. For that which is commanded, may not be neglected, neither is any thing to be done, which is repugnant thereunto.

But many things in the worship of God are not comman­ded or determined by God, but left to the libertie of Christians; many things were unprofitable, and needlesse to be determined particularly by divine authoritie, as being easily discernable by the light of nature, and common reason: and many things could not be determined, because one order in them could not fit all ages, times and places in the world. The divisions of the Chapters and verses, as they are in our Bibles, and the Secti­ons of the Law, as among the Jewes, are of men: and so is the phrase of speech and method used in Prayer, Preaching, Admi­nistration of the Sacraments, and the very words of Translati­ons, wherein the Scriptures are read, and cannot be one and the same in all societies. And so are the circumstances, how oft, [Page 48]at what houre, on what day, in what place, the Pastor shall preach, which are particular determinations of the Church, and variable. If you say, these things are prescribed in generall and by consequence, because they are done according to the rules of direction given in Scripture: Of necessitie you must confesse the proposition is ambiguous: for sometimes prescri­bed, shall import, as much as determined, instituted, comman­ded, sanctifyed; if not appropriated: and sometimes it shall note no more, but left at libertie, or indetermined. Neither will that sense stand in the proposition, Synops. purior. theol. disp. 35. thes. 17. Ab omni traditio­num humanarum jugo liberas habeant conscientias, cum so­lius Dei sit, res ad religionem pertinen­tes praescribere. for then it should be lawfull to place opinion of necessitie, holinesse, or worship in those things which are undetermined, or not commanded of God, which is contrary to the whole scope and drift of Scripture, and the judgement of all Orthodox and sound Di­vines, new and old.

To proceed more distinctly, because it is a matter much in­sisted upon, and as much mistaken, and misapplyed by ma­ny.

Worship is as large as the Commandement, nay as the whole Word of God. Bald. de cons. l. 4. c. 3. To the pre­cepts of God, no­thing is to be ad­ded. Deut. 12. Now God hath com­manded these things which are necessarie. The rites of the Church are not necessary: where­fore if the abroga­tion, or usurpati­on of any rite be urged as necessary, then is an addition made to the com­mandement of God, which is for­bidden in the Word, &c. Dea. 12.2 & 4 1, 2. & 5.32 Lev. 18.4. Pr [...]v. 30.6. Ambr de parad c. 12 tom. 4. Nihil vel [...] gratia adjunger [...]n [...]s debemus mandato. Nihil vel quo [...] bonum videtur add [...]ndum. Addendo de proprio semipl. [...]um Dei intellexit esse mandatum. Docetnos [...] praesentis series lection is, nequ. de­tra [...]re aliquid debere diviris mand [...]is, neque addere. For so it is ordinarily defined, A worke com­manded, done in faith, and then it must needs extend it self as far as the Commandement. And if to obey God in conscience of his Commandement, in all actions, Civill and Sacred, of Pie­tie, Justice or Mercie, be to Worship him, then to beleeve whatsoever the Lord hath taught, relying upon the truth and credit of the Revealer, is worship also. And hence it is, that the Worship of God is usually divided into Immediate and Mediate Worship: which comprehendeth all duties which we owe to God or Man. Now if the way or manner of Worship be taken in this acceptation: then the sense of the Proposition must be this, That no action, great or small, done to God or man, religious or sociall, is lawfull, unlesse it be prescribed of God.

And let us consider the passages of Scripture, alledged by your selfe and others, whether if rightly quoted, they doe not affirme as much.

Whatsoever I command you, that shall yee observe to doe, Thou [Page 49]shalt not adde thereto, neither shalt thou take ought from it. To what might they not adde? From what might they not dimi­nish? Is it not from the whole Law of God, which teacheth the whole duty of Man, both towards God, and towards Man for the Lords sake? Hereby the Lord establisheth his Word, and his only, and his whole word, to be the intire rule of Faith and manners. Hereby God appointeth his owne Word and Law, to be the only rule of his Service, without imitating the customes of others, or devising any thing of their owne, saith Master Ains­worth. But if by the Service of God, he understand the positive Worship of God only, or the immediate only, he straitneth the meaning of the Text overmuch: Annot in Deut. 12.32. Procopius in loc. verba enim Domini cum plena & per­fecta existant aucta­rium nullum ad­mittunt. Chrysost. in 1. ca. 2. Epist. ad Tim. hom. 2. Si [...]quidem sidci dogma perver­tat, etiamsi angelus sit, obedire noli. Annot. in Lev. 18.4. Tert. de praescript: advers haeret. It is not lawfull for us to devise any thing of our selves, nor follow that which others have devi­sed. See Cham. pans [...]. tom. 1. l. 8. c. 6. Rainold. apol. thes. sect. 2. p. 205, 206, 207. Hen Ainsw. part 3. p. 150. He inferreth, that generall admonition touching all the wayes of God, and not the Ten Commandements only. Doway annot. in Deut. 4.2. & 12.32. Henry Ainsw. 2. Answ p. 55. Prov. 30.6. Loe here all additions, and not only things contrary are forbidden. Ex. 23.13. Chrysoft. oper. imperfect. hom. 20. in 7. cap. Matth. Every Teacher is a servant of the Law, because he may neither adde of his owne sense unto the Law, nor accor­ding to his owne conceit, taking any thing from the Law, but preach that only which is found in the Law. Qu. Co. p. 67. For it speaketh plainly of the whole Law, and is fitly alledged to prove the perfection of the Scripture in all matters necessary to salvation, and not concer­ning the Worship of God only. Israel might not adde either to the Statutes or Judgements of the Lord: and if by Statutes be meant Decrees for Religion, or the Worship of God only, (which cannot be proved by the use of the Word) by judge­ments, they cannot be understood likewise. By this saith Master Ainsworth, God forbiddeth all inventions of men. Ec­cl. 7.29. the workes of their owne hands. Jer. 25.6. and the Statutes of the Kings of Israel, which they after made without the Com­mandement of the Lord. But the inventions of men respect the Commandments of God in generall, and not the Ceremoniall Ordinances only, nor yet the immediate worship of God a­lone. He shall doe good service to the Papists, that shall limit the Texts in that manner: for by such like distinctions, they seek to elude them, when they are produced to prove the perfection of the written Word of God, in all things necessary to salva­tion.

Ye shall take heed (saith the Lord) to all the things that I have said unto you. But this cannot be restrained to the ceremoni­all precepts concerning Gods Worship, but must be referred to all things that God gave them in charge. David prayeth, [Page 50] Psal. 119.133. Direct my steps in thy Word, and let none iniqui­tie have dominion over me. But what can be more plaine, than that David doth not speake of the worship of God alone, but desires that all his counsells, thoughts, manners, actions might be directed according to Gods Word: because the Word of God is the rule of all our actions? In which sense also it may be affirmed, That Negative conclusions in matters of faith, and du­ties, Hen. Ai [...]sw. 2. Ans. p. 55. The [...]. cited sc. Deut. 5.32. & 12.32. Speak of Gods Com­mandements in ge­nerall; you take one in particular, and because one is not all, therefore all must not be all. A D [...]spute, part 1. cap. 4. p. 8. The lavves of the Church declare unto us what is fit­test in such things as are in their own nature indifferent, and neither enfor­ced by the law of God, nor nature. Id. p. 21. As when the Church ordai­neth that in great Townes there shall be a Sermon on such a day of the week, and publike Pray­ers every day at such an hourt, &c. First book of Scotish Discip. In great Townes, we thinke expedient, that every day there be either Sermon, or Common Prayer, &c. Zanc. in quartum praeceptum in tract. de discip. Eccles in fine. Calv. Instit. l. 4. c. 10. §. 30, 31. E [...]fi fateamur non [...]nviti ex insitâ & naturali Dei [...]ognitione, ersi corrupta, sequietiam in genere Deum esse colendum. Item non solum interno affectu cul­tum illum fieridebere, sed etiam externo actu. Negamus tamen, naturali leg? determinatam esse speriem il am externi cultus. Rivet. in Gen. exercit. 42. Sec Scul [...]et. Ethic. lib. 1. Neither Angels nor men can make a Sacrament Ca [...]seh. art. 4. p. 104. follow well from Scriptures silence.

If the way or manner of Worship, be put for immediate Worship, then it extends as large as the Commandements of the first Table, and the sense of the proposition must be, That no Worship, publike or private, must be performed to God for substance, manner or time, other than that which God hath prescribed in his Word: which holdeth not true, unlesse it be added, That no worship must be performed as necessary and holy for substance, manner and time, which God hath not pre­scribed. For what shall we say of the time of rivate Pray­er in the familie or closet, the forme of catechizing, and tran­slations of the Scripture, the times for publike Lectures, and ex­ercises of Religion upon the week day, and ordering and go­vernment of Schooles, and Universities? for these things are not for time, words and manner prescribed, or determined of God.

If the word, Worship, be taken more strictly for substantiall Worship, commanded in, or referred to the first and second Commandements, usually known by the titles of inward and outward worship, Naturall and positive instituted Worship (though perhaps the termes be not so fit, if better were found out) then the meaning is, that no Worship of God, inward or outward, naturall or positive, is lawfull; but what is pre­scribed and determined of God in his Word. But then there want not difficulties: for how should Worship be naturall, if it must be instituted and prescribed? If the light of nature or reason teach it, which is planted in the heart, by the singer of God, how can it be unlawfull, unlesse it be prescribed by an ex­ternall [Page 51]word of institution? What shall wee say of outward gestures, made in and upon the body, to declare the hidden af­fection of the soule; must these be prescribed, and determined, or fall under this censure? When the Word informeth me to call upon God in the Mediation of Jesus Christ: doth not reason it selfe without any further institution, teach me to kneele, lift up my hands, &c. At least, if worship be naturall, or positive, must there be a distinction of the institution or pre­scription of this worship also? Doth not positive Worship re­quire one manner of institution; naturall another?

If the way or manner of Worship be restrained to positive, or instituted only, it is most true; No worship is lawfull, which is not in speciall commanded, or appointed of God in his Word. But then the Texts of Scripture, quoted by you for proofe, will not speak unto it.

Ye shall not doe (saith Moses) after all things, Deut. 12.8. which wee doe here this day, every man, all that is right in his owne eyes. Some Greek copies have it, [...]. Others [...], which is according to the Hebrew. Ainsw. annot. in Deut. 12.8. And the speech of Moses seems to mean the true Service of God, which was not yet perfected, neither could be in their travells, Iun. annot. in Deut. 12.8. & Analy. in loc. P. Martyr. in 1 Reg. 8. Vetabl. Nefeceritis, id est, Non facietis omnino ut nos, &c. hodiè; ante ingressā viz. terrae sanctae hic facimus, i. extra terram sanctam. Deodar. Italic. Deut. 12.8. i. concerning sacri­fice, the law of which they did not observe exactly, by occasion of the continuall wan­dring of the people. Ainsw annot. in Rev 10.19. De [...]dat. Ital. in Lev. 10 [...]9. The Lord hath shewed great wrath against me by the death of my sons, how then can I cate of this sacrifice to beare the si [...]s of the people, according to the ordinary law, the Lord not being pleased with me myselfe. Others would have it, That he could not eate, because he was in heavi­nelle, it b [...]ing [...]cet he should eate those things with joy and thanksgiving. Ʋatabl. annos, in Loc. as it was after in Canaan, v. 10.11. Not that they sacrificed after their fan­cie (saith the Geneva notes) but that God would be served more purely in the land of Canaan. Jun. upon this place noteth. Etsi oblationū lex unasemper fuit ab initi [...] praescripta a Deo, non potuit tamen usque adeo in ambulatoriis Israelitarum castris observari, ant summo jure ab illis exigi, prout ostendit Antithesis, Vers. 11. vide Num, 28.6. The Doway Divines, on the place, give this observation, In the Desart, they could not observe the Cere­monies of the Law, but comming to rest, they were bound to keepe all one set forme of holy rites. The conclusion from this Text is, That God is pleased to dispence with his people in his owne prescribed Worship, untill, if he hath appointed, deter­mined, or appropriated a certaine forme, time and place, they have opportunitie to serve him at that time, in that place, and after that forme. But thence it followeth not, that he hath de­termined, [Page 52]or appropriated a certaine forme of place, or that no other Worship may be tendred, but what he hath in particular appointed, or prescribed. This I say, cannot be concluded from the Text, though I grant it is a truth rightly understood, as I said before.

Such things (saith Aaron) have befallen me, and if I had eaten the sin-offering to day, should it have been good in the eyes of the Lord? In these words Aaron excuseth himselfe, by reason of his sorrow, which made him unfit and unworthy to eate of those holy things. Deutr. 12.7. & 26.14. Hos. 9.4.

The Doway Divines, somewhat to the same purpose. Naturall griefe of minde, made Aaron both unwilling to eate, and lesse apt to complete all the ceremonies: so without sin he omitted that pertained to his own cōmodity, offering it unto God. The Geneva notes, Moses bare with his infirmitie, considering his great sorrow, but doth not leave an example to forgive them that malitiously transgresse the commandement of God. The vulgar reades it, Quomodo potui comedore eam, aut placere Do­mino in ceremoniis mente lugubri? Vatablus, or Leo Iuda, Talia­que mihi acciderunt, et si comedissem hostiam pro peccato hodiè num hoc benè factum esset in oculis Domini? Or, Mihi autem acci­derunt hujusmodi, si igitur comedissem, hodie oblationem illam pro peccato, an placuisset Deo? And the sense of the place he gives thus, Mihi tamen mortui sunt filii mei, quod certè argu­mento est illorum sacrificium Deo non placuisse (ignorabat enim Aaron causam mortis filiorum) Si igitur comedissem quod mi­bi debebatur, ex eâ oblatione quomodo placuissem Deo, quum ob­latio ipsa non placuerit? q. d. Non putavifore Deo gratum, quumea victima non fuerit placatus. Jun. annot in loc. Iun. gives the words ano­ther sense. Ego quoque non satis attendi ad officium mihi impera­tum lege, sed per imprudentiam peccavi ut filii mei supers [...]ites [...]e­jusdem negligentiae & perturbationis reus sum: gratumne ei fo­ret, si ego adhut-in peccato haerens, peccatum populi expiandum in me transtulissem.

The conclusions from this Text of Scripture, may be such as these; That oftentimes the letter of the Law giveth place to great necessities; or that Gods worship, where he hath prescribed and determined the manner, must be performed as he hath appointed. But that no other service may be tendered unto God, than he hath instituted (though [Page 53]that be a Truth) or that in every title he hath determined the manner of his Service, that cannot be gathered from this Text.

All their wickednesse is in Gilgal (saith the Lord by the Pro­phet) for there doe I hate them: Hos. 9.15. Hos. 4.15. & 1 [...].11. Amos 4.4 & 5.5. for the wickednesse of their inventions I will cast them out of mine house: I will love them no more: all their Princes are rebells. The wickednesse of Gilgal was that horrible idolatrie, wherewith it was pollu­ted, and by their inventions, wee must understand their idola­trous Worship, set up directly against the Commandement of God. And by the house of God, neither the land which the Lord gave them to possesse, or the family of God is meant: but the condition of the people of Israel, will not suffer the San­ctuary or Tabernacle to be understood. For they set up Al­tars, and sacrificed in Gilgal, where was neither the Arke, nor Sanctuary of the Lord, and when God had expresly forbidden either to multiply Altars, or to sacrifice in any other place than that which he had chosen unto himselfe. Cypr. Cecilio fratri. ep. 68. Non homi­nis corsuetudinem sequi oporte [...], sed Dei veritatem; cum per Isaiam Prophetam Deus loquatur & dicat; sine causa autem colunt me mandata & doctri­nas hominum docen­tes & iterum Domi­nus in Evange [...]o hoc idem repetit dicens. Reiicistis &c. Matth. 15 3, 4. Col. 2.8. Rivet. ad Gen. prae­lect. 44 Quiequid ad colendum Deum ab hominibus insti­tu tur sine Dei man­dato, vanumest. rsal. 19.13. Math. 15.8. Heb. 11.6. Rom. 10.17. Non camen-negamus posse eos quiecclesium regunt pras [...]ribere aliquid fingulare de circumstantiis, ad Dei cul um perti [...]e tibus, ex v [...] [...] Dei gener [...]libus axio [...]atis ut de leco & tempore pabli orum conventuum & si [...]dibus quae ad preta­tem ecclesiasticam pertinent, sed negamus in talibus forma [...]iter cul um Det consistere. CAN, Stay sect. 2. p. 9. Melan [...]th, l. 4. c. de distinct. Keckerm. Thcol. l. 1. p. 59. directly contrary to Gods Commandement, is unlawfull, therefore it is unlaw­full to worship God in any other way or manner than he hath instituted? The thing concluded is true, but it hangs to the Premises as a rope of sand.

Two passages of Scripture are rightly alledged by you (the rest are mustered up meerely to make a shew, and argue your great inconsideratenesse in citing Scripture) against will-wor­ship, and superstitious rites, or emptie shewes of Religion. For the soule of Religion, is to doe acts with relation to Gods Commandement, and where there is no Commandement or Institution, there can be no conscience of worship, no expecta­tion of a blessing. In this sense therefore the proposition is to be admitted. But in a matter of such importance, so much in­sisted upon by your selfe, it became you to deale distinctly, and prove substantially what you affirme, and not to confound things that differ, confidently to affirme what you can never [Page 54]make good, and heape up Scriptures and Authors to no purpose.

You say, it is a certaine rule (as Logicians teach) Things are really to be distinguished; which in themselves are to be separated each from other. But the rule is, That all things are really distin­guished, which may be separated each from other, as the body is really distinguished from the apparrel, because the garment may be separated from the body, & the body from the garment. How truely you understand, or fitly apply that Maxime, it is needlesse to examine further: but what you observe in your Pistoler (as you stile him) that is most true in your selfe and some others, that ignorance or neglect of distinguishing things that differ in this matter of Gods Worship, is one maine cause of great error and going astray.

In proofe of your proposition also, you lavish somewhat, when you say without limitation, That all sorts and sects of Writers acknowledge it for a truth; For the Papists generally hold the contrary, as you know. But this is a thing with you very usuall and common.

The later part of your reason, which you smoothly passe o­ver, as a matter cleere, and manifest, and for proofe whereof, you send us to our consciences, in conscience we utterly denie, and by the Word of God are assured of the contrary, viz. That to joyne with our congregations in the ordinances of Grace, is a Worship of God prescribed in his Word, cōmended of Christ, and blessed of him to them that in conscience obey his Com­mandements. The Worship there performed, is that which the Lord hath instituted, the doctrine of salvation is taught in­tirely, the Sacraments rightly administred, the sacrifice of Prayer offered unto God in the Mediation of Jesus Christ, our onely high Priest, who is present in the Congregations, by the presence of his grace, graciously inviteth men to come unto him, and sweetly refresheth them that in truth of heart draw nigh unto him. Thus God is worshiped in our assemblies, and this worship is performed by such as are called of God, and many approved of God in their Office and Ministerie.

That the Preaching and hearing of the Word is a Worship of God, if the word, Worship, be taken largely to comprehend both all naturall worship, and all means instituted and ordained, whereby God is pleased to teach and instruct his people, will easily be granted, and such as denie it, are justly to be taxed. But that distinction of Worship must be admitted, which is [Page 55]taught in Scripture, and the more exactly tearmes are distin­guished, the more cleerely the fraud of the Adversary is disco­vered, and the better able shall we be to confute them, unlesse we had rather doe it with bigge words than weight of reason.

Onely here observe your partiality. CAN. Necess. of Sep. p. 72. Idem. 222. For to shew the neces­sitie of Separation, speaking of outward. Worship used in the assemblies of England, you say; As for Preaching, it is held to be no part of Divine Service, and for proofe, you quote How­son, Serm. in Psal. 118. pag. 18. CAN. 19, Syon plea, 326. And, Touching Preaching, it is no Essentiall part of their Ministerie. But against your Pistoler, to prove that hearing is Worship, CAN. Stay. §. 3. p 17. you sing another note; None to my knowledge (saving a Popish Parasite or two, Howson, Serm. in Psal. 118. pag. 78.) ever held otherwise; viz. but that hearing was Worship. And they by men of better iudgements have been sharpely blamed for it. But let us heare how you goe forward in this Argu­ment.

CAN. Stay against Stray. Sect. 3, pag. 17, 18.

The Church is an Idoll Church, Hos. 14 8.2 Cor. 6.14. Par. com. in 1 Cor. 10 v. 14. and the Ministery an Idoll Ministerie: And if be Church he an Holl, the Ministerie a [...] Idol [...], who [...] a [...] Idoll, &c. In the words then of the Prophet, What have we to d [...] any more with Idolls? What agreement hath the Temple of God with Idolls? Lit­tle children, keep your selves from Idolls? Againe, my dearely beloved, [...] from Idolatrie. But how, mente & corpore, faith Pare [...]s, that is, the worship and reverence of Idoll [...].

ANSWER.

The Assumption you leave naked, to shift for it selfe, because you finde it an easier matter to declaime against Idolatry, and holding communion with Idolaters, in their Idoll-service (which no man ever doubted) than to make proofe, that to [Page 56]joyne in the ordinances of Religion in our assemblies, is will­worship or superstition. But if you prove little, you have learned to accuse manfully. An Idoll Church, an Idoll Ministe­rie, an Idoll-government, who doth not tremble at such thun­der cracks?

But first you should call to minde what you answere to your opposite. CAN. Stay. §. 3. p. 20 Arist. de interpret. l. 1. c. 6. prapter no­str [...]m [...]ffirmare vel negare nihil sequitur. CAN. Stay. §. 7. p. 89. As for your bare saying, it is farre from proofe. To affirme or denie (according to Aristorie) is of no consequence. Wee cannot take his bare saying, de jure & fide, to be a rule of faith to us. For our consciences are not (like Samsons shoul­ders) strong enough to beare it. If it may suffice to accuse, who shall be innocent? And if the cause may be carried with clamors and out-cryes, you are sure to winne the vi­ctory.

2 Suppose our Church and Ministerie be an Idoll in some respect, it is not a reall Idoll, but Metaphoricall, not absolute, but in some consideration: for the Word preached, and the Sa­craments Administred in our societies, are the true Gospel, and intire Sacraments of Jesus Christ; which could not be, if our Church and Ministery was absolutely an Idoll, a meere nothing. But to draw illimited conclusions, from a reall Idoll, to a Meta­phoricall, from an absolute Idoll, to an Idoll in some considera­tion or respect, is a new Logick never taught in the Schooles, nor learned from the Scriptures.

The idle, Zech. 11.16; 17. Isa. 56.10. Ezek. 34.1, 2, 4, 5. They will not be able to doe the worke of Pastors; where of they bear the name, that is, they will never be but Idolls. T.C. repl. 2. p. 1. p. 369 Jere. 5.1, 2. Deut. 32.4, 5. carelesse, unprofitable co [...]etous, pro [...]d, scandalous shepheard, who filleth the roome, but doth not the office of a shepheard, is an Idoll shepheard: But the faithfull were not to flie from them, both in minde and body, so as to have no communion with them in the Ordinances of God.

In the daies of the Prophet Iere [...]ie, the men of Jerusa­iem in generall, both rich and poore, were Idolls who had eyes but saw not, eares, but heard not. But the Prophet had not learned in minde and body, to fly from, and have no societie with them in the worship of God. The stiffe-necked, and disobedient Israelites, the uncircumcised in heart and life, were they not Idols? A people not a people? Though those their vices must be shunned, yet we have not found, that Moses and the Prophets did fly from the ordinances of God, because they must have nothing to doe with Idols. Every thing that is em­ptie of goodnesse required, and so doth faile or frustrate expe­ctation, may be called an Idoll, a thing of no worth, vaine and [Page 57]fruitlesse. So an Hypocrite is an Idoll; the husband, wife, fa­ther, friends, who are not faithfull, doe not their office, Job 13.4. [...] Nihist, as Merar. Montan. Tre­mel. & Iun. render it. Iob 6.15. 1 Cht. 16.26. Heb. Sept. [...] Hieron. idola Psal. 96.5. Sept. [...]. Hieron. vers. ex Hebr. scul­ptile. Eph. 5.3. Col. 3.5. with Hal. 1.16 may be called Idols. Iob saith to his friends, Ye are Physitians of no value, because they had deceived him, as David saith, All the gods of the people are vanitie, or vaine. The covetous person is an Idolater, and his goods are Idols: must therefore these goods bee destroyed, and the persons be abhorred? Nay the outward Ordinances of God themselves, Circumcision, Ba­ptisme, the Lords Supper may be called Idols, things of no va­lue, that presit not, as separated from the inward grace or thing signified. And if wee shall annex your Assumption, and, now then in the words of the Prophet, What have we any more to do with Idols? What agreement hath the Tem­ple of God with Idols? Will you grant the conclusion, or condemne the inference, as unlearned, foolish, perverse, not free from grosse abuse of Scripture?

3 Our Church and Ministery is not free from spots and staines, Iob 3.24. Rom. 2.28. Ier. 9.25.26 Sardis vera Ecclesia est, etsi vocem Chri­sti plenè non audiat, etsi illius obedientia plena non sit, etsi in plenum ficut oportuit ab Ethniasmo non fuerit reformata. A­po. 3.2. Park. de po­lit. Eccl. lib. 1. ca. 13. §. 1. Bright [...]. in A­poc. 3.2. Ambr. in Luc. lib 6. cap. 9. Tom. 5. Fides igitur in primis Ec­clesiae quaerenda man­detur, in qua si Chri­stus habita or sit haud dubie legenda. Si qua est ecclesia quae fidem respuat defe endaest. Ibid Petra tua Ch [...]istus est, fundamentum Ecclesiae fides est, St non in petra fueris, in Ecclesia cris; petrà est Christus. Hieron. in Symbol tom. 4. Ita est Ecclesia sancta, quae fidem Christi integramservat. Sta­pleton relect. cont. [...]. qu. 4. art. 5. Fides verae Ecclesi [...] vita est. Bilson Christian subject. part. 2. p. 365. Where faith faileth, the Church faileth; and hee that affirmes your doctrine to bee false, denies your assemblies and multitudes to be the Church. wee freely confesse to the praise of Gods glorious grace, and heartily beseech his Highnesse to supply what is wanting, to amend what is out of order, and to remove what is superfluous. But not withstanding any defects or corruptions that can be charged upon us, the Church and Ministery is true and sound, enjoying whatsoever is essentially necessarie to the life and soule of a true Church and Ministery, given by Christ, and such as the Kings of the earth are bound by Gods law to protect and maintaine. For our Church is built upon Jesus Christ, the sole foundation of his Church. We acknow­ledge Christ our only King, Priest, and Prophet. God hath given unto us the Tables of his Covenant, and we have recei­ved them [...] and his free and gracious. Covenant is confirmed by the true and effectuall seales, which he hath annexed unto his promise, and committed unto his Church as their prero­gative. Christs Name is truly and only called upon in our Assemblies: his Gospell is intirely Preached, and savingly re­ceived by his people, and hee is present with his Ordinances [Page 58]to blesse them, to the worthy partakers. If any stubble bee laid upon the foundation in respect of the Church or societie, it is done ignorantly, for ought wee can judge, and with a minde teachable and ready to give place when light doth evince it: at least it is not in points fundamentall, that is, such as are so maine, that without them there is no salvation, or of so cleare consequence from them, that who so is truly per­swaded of the one, cannot but see the other.

The passages of Scripture annexed, are grosly abused, and so are the Authors alledged: for they speak of reall Idolatry, and Idols, from which we must fly: but cannot so much as colourably be applyed to separation from the worship of God in our congregations, because of some abuses which are not reformed. But you goe forward, and we must follow you.

CAN. Stay. Sec. 3. pag. 18.

If it was Israels great sin to carry the oblations under the law, to a place (howbeit sometimes lawfull, and where their god­ly Ancestors had before truly worshipped) because they had no commandement so to doe: then certainly, more in fault are those (which with the worship of the Gospell) goe where it was never lawfull publikely to serve God, and where their forefathers never to this day rightly served him.

ANSWER.

Here yout [...]g what we shall never grant, If a mortall enemy may both accuse and judge, and pro­ceed upon no bet­ter ground than suspition, you may quickly condemne any man of here­sie. Bilson. Chri. part. 3. pag. 203. nor you be able to prove, to wit, that our Church is an Idoll Church, our Mi­nistery an Idoll Ministery, and that our forefathers never right­ly served God in our Assemblies: which is an easie kind of disputing, if you get a reader as credulous and willing to bee mislead, as you are peremptorie in passing sentence. But if we should believe you herein, wee should bely the mercy of God, and condemn the generation of his Saints.

As for the high places of which wee read often in Scri­pture, it was lawfull for the Fathers of old to offer Sacrifi­ces upon them, when it was not precisely commanded, but only the place for sacrifice undetermined. But after that God [Page 59]had chosen, dete [...]mined, and appropriated a peculiar place for sacrifice where it was to be offered and not else where, Alsted praecog lib. 2. pag. 369. Tert de dololat. It is no hurt, that the same God by his lavv forbad a simi­litude to be made, and by an extraor­dinary precept cō ­manded the simili­tude of the brazen serpent to bee made; which may be applyed to this purpose, with a lit­tle variation. Deut. 12.13. & 14.23. 1 Chr. 17.6. 2 Chron. 6.6. Psal. 78.68. Rivet. in Hos. 4.13. Colendo verum De­um in collibus est in exce [...]sis contra Dei le­gem et rium prae­seripium. Zanch. in Hos. 4.13 Laudabile exercitua illud [...]sraelitis vide­batur, & tamen est scortari. Quare? quia sacrilegium e [...] discedere a verbe Do­mini. Ʋerbuma. Do­mini jusserat ut tax­tum Harosolymis, & ritibu [...] a Den irstitu­tis, sinc sa [...] Deum coleren [...]. See. lun. Annot. in 1. Reg. 33. & 2 Reg. 22.4. 1 King. 15.12, 14. King. 22.43. 2 King. 12. [...] King 25.4. 2 King. 15.35. Bilson Christ subject, part 4. pag. 340. Gods act [...] no warrant for you to breake his savv. By his law hee restraineth you not humselfe from the making of any such similitudes. 2 Kings 4.15.19. then it was a great sinne for them without extraordinary dispen a­tion or commandement to offer in those places, where their godly Ancestors had truly worshiped before, not because they had no commandement so to do (for that may be said of their Ancestors, they had no commandement to offer there) but because it was expresly forbidden. And here you may see how the first part of the sentence doth crosse the later: For if godly Ancestors did truly worship God in the high places, when they were not commanded, then the Israelites did not finne grievously in carrying their oblations thither, because it was not commanded. What moved you so to write, and to alledge Authors, as if they affirmed the same, I leave it to your conscience to judge. This is sure, neither Scripture nor Author cited, doth speake with you in that matter, but plain­ly professe, that it was unlawfull, because it was expresly forbidden. That exercise (saith Zanchie) did seeme praise­worthy to the Israelites, and yet it is to play the harlot: Why? because it is sacriledge to depart from the Word of the Lord. But the Word of the Lord had commanded, that they should worship the Lord only at Ierusalem, and by such rites as hee had instituted.

The Kings who are commended in Scripture, who yet tooke not away the high places, as Asa, Jehosaphat, Amasias, Azarias, and Jothian, they were not commended for suffer­ing the high places, but that they were constant in faith and religion, although they fell into some peculiar sins. But with­all, the abuse of the high places in the worship of God, was no light sin, but very grievous, because it was properly and expresly against the divine law and precept.

As for the ten Tribes who departed from the house of Da­vid, they shined grievously, in that they worshipped the Calves, and that in a place of worship elected of themselves, contrary to the word of God, leaving and forsaking that place which the Lord bad chosen to himselfe. They professed the true God, and turned not aside to the gods of the Heathen, [Page 60]and in that respect are called the house and family of the Lord: 2 King. 10.16.31 Hos. 9 15. 1 King 12.31. Lev. 17.7. Hebr. Sep. [...]. Iun. demonibus. Deu. 32.17. 1 Cor. 10.10. Ex. 32.1.8 Acts 7.41. 1 Cor. 10.7. 1 King. 12.28. and 14.9. 2 Chron. 11.15. Heb. Sept. [...]. See Ainsw. Annot. in Lev. 17.7. et Iun. ibid. Rainold de Idolola. l. 2. c. 3. Isa. 44. Qu. Co. pag. 61. CAN Sta. §. 3 pag. 18. Babingt. in Lev. 17. See Iun. in Lev. 17.3. 4, 11. But as they sacrificed at Bethel, and committed Ido­latry in worshipping the Calves, so their service was abomi­nable, and their Priesthood appointed for that service, a meer nullitie and humane device.

Thus all the Jewes and Gentiles are said to sacrifice unto Divels, who sacrificed in such sort and place as God had for­bidden, especially it they sacrificed unto Idols, though in them they sacrificed unto the true God in their imagination, as the Israelites had done when they made the golden Calse, and sacrificed unto it: and Ieroboams Idols are called Divels, and he is said to make Priests for the high places and for Di­vels. Further this Ordinance of God was typicall, and did shadow forth Christ, as the learned do observe, and not with­out ground and warrant. All Altars, Sacrifices, Priests, and the Temple it selfe where the Altar stood, were but types and shadowes of Christ. You your selfe cite out of Bishop Babington, that hereby was signified, that only in the Church by faith in the chiefe high Priest Christ Jesus, sacrifice and service accepted of God, is, and can be offered and done, and no where els. By the erudiments (saith another) Christ was shadowed among the Jewes, and expiation made on the crosse by his blood.

From hence briefly let these things be observed. 1 That the Jewes sinned by facrificing in the high places, and the Is­raelites at Dan and Bethel, because God had forbidden it ex­presly, but against communicating in our assemblies, no such prohibition can be brought forth, which haply might bee the reason, why you had rather say, because they had no divine precept for it, than because it was forbidden, which yet you know to bee most certaine. 2 Though it bee not lawfull to communicate with the people of God in their sins, yet wee may partake in the ordinances of worship, with such as of­fend grievously in the worship of God, as the Prophets and faithfull, communicated in the ordinances of God at Jerusa­lem, with them that sacrificed upon the high places. 3. That in Idolatrous and false Churches, that which is meerely of men is vaine and fruitlesse, and a meere nullitie, but if among them, something which is of God remaine, it is not to bee esteemed a thing of nought. 4 Wee must neither forsake all societies, wherein wee espie many things repugnant to the [Page 61]Word of God, nor cast off every thing in those societies, wherewith we must not hold communion, as false, vaine and ineffectuall. In Idolatrous societies, Cyp. lib. 1. c. 4. The people must not partake with the sacrifice of a sacri­legious Priest. there may be some truth which I must not cast away, though I must not hold society in their Idolatry. In the true Churches of Christ, there may be diverse errors and abuses, wherewith I must not communi­cate, though I must live and hold fellowship in the society.

I am bound to keepe the unity of that living body, S. B. Second an­svver, pag. 20. where­of I am a member, even with some inconvenience of sicke­nesse and unsound parts, but I must not joyne my selfe to a strange body and so become a member of Satan. 5. They that communicate in the Worship of God in our Assemblies doe neither bring a strange oblation, nor goe to a place forbid­den, for the worship is of God, and the Congregation assemb­led in his Name, and he is there present to feast them that draw nigh unto him in truth of heart.

Can. Stay. Sect. 3. Pag. 19.

Ought we not to beleeve, that as God had commanded us to worship Him, that is, to heare his Word, receive the Sa­craments and to use other His Ordinances: so Hee hath also called and separated unto himselfe a Church, a Com­munion of Saints, and holy ones, in and amongst whom these holy things are to be used, and that we are to looke in what fellowship wee receive the holy things of God, as what the things are we doe receive. In a word, ought we not to be perswaded, that as the legall Sacrifices out of the Tabernacle or Temple, within whose circle they were pre­scribed by the mouth of God, were unlawfully offered: so all the Ordinances and exercises of the Church under the Gospell done out of a true constituted Church are altoge­ther and every way sinfull. Deut. 12.5, 6, 7.

ANSWER.

God hath separated unto himselfe a Church, and amongst them hee is to bee worshipped according to his owne appoint­ment. But this Church is of larger extent than that which you [Page 62]call a true constituted Church; wee reade that the Lord did chuse a certaine place for sacrifices, Deut. 12.5, 6, 7. after which it was unlaw­full to sacrifice in any other; and so we read also that the re­maindes of the Paschall Lamb was to be burnt and the flesh of the Ramme of Consecration with the bread that remained un­to the morning, Exod. 12.10. Exod. 29.34. Levit. 15.19. I yeeld the Scrip­ture a witnesse of my sense, and my exposition without the Scripture, let it bee of no credit. Orig. Hom. 9 in Jer. CAN. Necess. of se­par. pag. 2 11. Can. Stay. Epistle to the Reader. Iohn 2.19, 21. 2 Cor. 6.16. So the Altar is put for Christ in the Ancients. Ignat. ad Magnesian. To one Altar, to one Lord Iesus Christ. Ad Philadel. one Altar to all the Church. Iren. adv: haeres. l 4 ca. 34. est Ergo Al­tare in caelis. Euseb. Hist. lib. 10. cap. 4. and the flesh of the peace-offering: But that all Ordinances of the Church done out of a true constituted Church, in your sense, should be altogether unlawfull, or that the Ordinances are tyed to your Church constitution, as the Sacrifices were to the Temple, that we reade not: and how then shall we be perswaded of it? Remember your owne re­quest. Let the Scripture speake in the points betweene us, for without it nothing is to be affirmed, and beyond it nothing to be concluded.

Principally, of old the Temple shaddowed Christ, in and through whom we must present our service unto God, and then the Church of Christians: but that the externall constitution of a Congregationall societie is represented thereby, in such sort as if it be thus, or thus constituted it should be lawfull to joyne with them, but if this or that externall rite be lacking, it should be unlawfull to joyne in the worship of God, is most unprobable. In all ages the Lord hath had his Church, in which he hath beene worshipped. But evermore the faith­full were not to bring their sacrifices to the Tabernacle, or Temple. And if the Lord had chosen not that place for sacrifice, other service pleasing and acceptable might and ought to bee performed in other places.

Therefore that Sacrifices should prefigure all Ordinances and exercises of the Christian Church, Fulke in Matth. 23. Sect. 7. The Lords Altar that was in the Temple, was a figure of Christs onely true sacrifice once offered. Bishop Babin. com­fort. notes upon, Exod. 27. and the Tabernacle and Temple the externall frame and constitution of a Church, is an unwritten tradition.

It is more reasonable a great deale to compare the externall frame of the Iewish Church with the outward order which God hath instituted for the Evangelicall Churches, and wor­ship with worship, substance of Religion with substance, and then it will follow that as the faithfull and religious Iewes might and ought to hold societie in the Ordinances of Reli­gion, when many things were amisse in the externall frame and constitution of the Church; as the Priests idle, covetous, prophane, the people dissolute, impenitent, rebellious: so the faithfull in the Christian Church must hold Communion [Page 63]in the Ordinances of Grace, though in the constitution of the Church the Officers and members much be out of order. Doway annot in 3. booke of Kings pag. 7 15. The Doway glosse hath much more probbaility than yours. To con­serve unity (say they) there was but one Tabernacle & one Al­tar for sacrifice in the whole people of Israel: Wherupon, when the two tribes and an halfe on the other side Iordan had made a severall Altar, all the Tribes that dwelt in Canaan suspect­ing it was for Sacrifice, sent presently to admonish them, Aug. Epist. 48 Quis non impudentissemè, &c. vid page seq: Omnis ea distinctio in re Theologica est inanis fictio, quae ex Dei mentiri nescis au­thoritate non acci­pitur, quae (que) rem ip­sam de qua agitur tollit, &c. Martin: de persona Christ. page 632. &c. but what end shall we have, if every man upon his owne head may devise or Coyne significations of Gods Ordinances? What is this, but to bring in a new word, to set up Sacra­ments upon our own heads? Herein we say to you, and them as you to your opposite: I require the voyce of the Shepheard, Read it mee out of the Prophets Shew it mee out of the Psalmes, &c. In the interpretation of the Types and Figures of the Law, mens judgements if the Scripture goe not before them are of small credit.

Can. Stay. Sect. 3. Pag. 20.21.

If that be true in the Philosopher, Opposit a sunt simul natura, Arist Topic l. b. 6. Bonum est cujus con­trarium est malum. Rhetor. l. 1. If vvee take a str [...]ct vievv and enquirie of that Ministery, Worship and Go­vernment, vvhich they left at Dan & Bethel; it will ap­pear evidently, that the same was not more salfe, idola­trous, and unlawful than the present Ministerie, worship and Government of the English As­semblies is, by the Non-conformists affirmed to be Jeroboams Apolog in his Arrovv against Idolatry. CAN Necess. of Sep. p. 85.86, 87, 88. Course of Comfor. p. 161.162. Opposite things in nature are alike. Againe, That is good whose contrary is evill: It must needs followes, that as some Churches are visibly true in respect of faith and order: so others may bee true too having outward order, albeit the members thereof have no faith at all. The which assertion is not to bee answered but abhorred. The tenne Tribes which depar­ted from the Lord, from his Temple, Sacrifices, Priests, Altar, and other holy signes of his presence at Ierusa­lem; from the time and still after were not Gods Church, so the Scriptures shew, Hos. 2.2. and 2 Chron. 15.3. Ier. 3.8. Amos 9.7. &c. And the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Bethel, were not in respect of faith and Doctrine more corrupt, than the other now is, M r. Amsworth, and the Non conformists, affirme that the Apostate Iewes could justifia their way and course of Religion as well if not better than the other.

ANSWER.

The Philosophicall Maxime to which you have reference is. Arist. de Caelo. lib. 2. cap. 3. Text. 19. Posito une contrariorum ponitur & alterum. But as you cite it, It is as hard to be found as your translation is to be un­derstood. That it is not universall, appeareth out of Arist. himselfe, who putteth down the contrary Maxime as true and certaine. Arist. Gategor. l. c. 11 de contrar. Non necessarium est, Si contrariorum alterum sit & alterum esse. Nam si omnes sint sanitas quidem erit, mor­bus non erit. So in the first Creation of all things, all things were very good and there was nothing evill. All things crea­ted are finite in act, but amongst things created there neither is nor can be a naturall infinite. Truth and false-hood, good and evill, Piety, and Idolatry are opposite, and that before ever false-hood, evill or Idolatry had any being in the world. Contraries we know expell one another, Or if one be neces­sary in the subject the other cannot be in it, at least in the in­tense degree, as if fire be hot it cannot be cold; Now it is necessary, that every thing created be finite and good as created, and therefore good had a being before evill. If it be object­ed, that opposites are relatives, and relatives are together in nature, the answer is, they are relatives secundum dici, as they speake, not secundum esse, which may bee said to be together in nature; Not that both are in act existent out of their cau­ses, but because the nature of one being knowne the nature of the other may be knowne, whether it be, or be not, whether it may bee or may not bee. Wee know likewise, that not only good is opposed to evill, but evill to evill, as covetousnesse to prodigality and this the Philosopher himselfe confesseth. So that these propositions must be rightly limited or they are both false. Par. in Rom. 10.15 Legitima Ʋo atio ec­clesiae est, quae in qua­vis Ecclesia publica authoritate or dinis causa ad aedisicationē instituta. Ne (que) um­formis est omnium ubi (que) quead circum­st intias exter [...]s sed libertati Ecclesiae re­lacta.

These Philosophicall Rules are impertinently alledged by you, for the externall order or government and intire profes­sion of faith are not opposite, they may be separated in part, and they may and ought to be joyned together. The faith and doctrine strictly taken may be intire, when the externall order is pure and holy: and the order may be maimed and defective, when the doctrine is found in points fundamentall: And the doctrine may bee very corrupt and rotten, when the exter­nall [Page 65]order is observed according to the rule; and therefore a Church may be true in doctrin and profession of faith, strict­ly taken, when for matters of order it labours under great de­fects; though in respect of outward order and government, it cannot be the true Church, when it destroyeth the foundati­on of the faith. For if the faith bee taught intirely, Rivet. in Hosea 4.6. Etsi ad ordinatie­nem externam, nihil ijs deesset, & se pro sacerdotibus gererent, tamē illos reijeit Do­minus. Sic Pontifi­ciorum sacerdotes ad­huc retinen [...] aliquam ministerij formam ex­ternam, &c. CAN. Stay. Sect. 11 page 115. and the Sacraments rightly administred, it cannot be but the ministerie in that Church must bee true for substance, what other de­fects soever it labour under.

But if the foundation of faith be overthrowne, or the mi­nistery whereunto men be set apart be strange and meerely de­vised, there can be no true calling or ministery, but false and impure.

If this distinction of a true Church and Ministery, for sub­stance of Doctrine in points fundamentall, and externall cal­ling and government, be denyed absolutely, I shall desire you to unty a Knot or two, which your selfe have knit. The Scribes and Pharisees were blind guids, corrupt Teachers, false Prophets, in respect of their doctrine: covetous, ambitious, and otherwise prophane, in respect of their conversation: up­on what grounds then were they to bee heard? because they were called and ordained of God, CAN. Stay. Sect. 3 page 60. Ier. 2.11, 13. & 3.8, 9, 10, 11. Ezek. 16.47, 48, 49 Mat. 11.21, 22, 2 Chro. 11.13, 14. 1 Reg. 12. Hosea 4.6, 9. & 5.1. [...] Reg. 19.10, 18 2 Reg. 17.28. Par. in Rom. 11.2, 3, 4 Dub. 3. Sa­maria etiam erat de Iudaeorum s [...]nagoga, l. cet corruptissim [...] & Apostatica Siqui­dem Jfraelitae ctiam crant de popu o prae­cogni [...]o: & alioqui Elias & Elizaeus, al i [...] pr [...]phetae ibi non docuissent. that they should preach the Law o God in the Synagogues to the people, and exhort them to the observation thereof. Is not here the distinction of true and false Teachers, in diverse respects? Rebellious Indah justified her sister Samaria in some respects, and in some other continued the true Church of God. From the time that the tenne Tribes departed from the Lord, his Temple, Paiests, Al­tar, &c. it was unlawfull to hold communion with them, be­cause they committed I [...]olatry, and willfully left the place which the Lord appropriated for his service and sacrifice: but still they retained something of a Church, and were not to be esteemed altogether as heathens as the very places quoted doe t [...]stifie.

That the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Be­the [...], when they committed reall Idolatry with the Calves, played the Harlot upon every high hill, and under every green Tree, forsooke wilfully the place which God had appointed for sacrifice, and offered sacrifices in places forbidden, rejected the Lords Priests, and made of the basest of the people-Priests for that service which the Lord abhorred: that they were not [Page 66]more corrupt in Doctrine and worship than the Church of England by the confession of Non conformists, is an asserti­on beyond all credit. I may fitly put you in mind, what Ori­gen saith of Celsus his workes, CAN. Stay. Sect. 5 page 39. which you apply to your ad­versary; There is no danger least any faithfull man should bee subverted by your sayings: for you talke but reason not: yea in your talke you keep no compasse, but all men may feele how grossely you mistake.

Master Ainsworths Arrow against Idolatry, I have not seene, nor know not how to come by it. But if you will bring forth his or your owne darts in this kinde, they shall bee tryed and examined by the Word of God. You are not afraid not ashamed to write, that the Non-conformists affirme the wor­ship of our English Assemblies to be as false and idolatrous as the worship of the Israelites at Dan and Bethel. But for proofe, you bring the bare testimony of one alone, and him no English Non-conformist. And if his testimony had been tru­ly alledged, can you with truth and honesty charge that upon all, which you know is disclaimed by many, spoken only by one, and he no member of the English societies: But that one shamefully abused likewise, for when he saith the Idolatry of these times doth equall, if not exceed that of Ieroboam, he in­tends the Idolatry of the Romish Synagogues, but accuseth not the English Congregations, as if they stood guilty of that sin, or the like degree. For he acknowledgeth the Church of Eng­land to be a glorious reformed Church; though in some things not throughly reformed as she ought. Course of confor. page 142. Wherefore, saith he, for conforming to a glorious Church, but in that wherein shee was never raformed. And what wonder if all the reformed Churches crept not forth of the Romish deluge equally accomplished? Course of confor page 183 What greater wonder than that any should be found free of the smell of that Wine, of Fornication, whereof they all for so many yeeres were drunke.

Your pen runneth over almost every where with pernitious I dolatry, Aug. Ep. 48. Quis non impudentissine nitatur alie uid in al­legoria positum prose interpretari: nisi ha­heat manifesta testi­monia qu [...] lumne [...] obscura? blasphemy and such like out-cries, and for colour of what you say, pretend the names of men, who indeed and truth from their hearts detest your rashnesse and inconsideratnes: Whereas if you would be perswaded to talke lesse, and reason more, and give milder words, and bring stronger arguments, and deale sincerely in the testimonies which you use, you should ease your reader, and spare your Conscience.

SECTION 5.

Can. Stay. Sect. 5. Pag 37.38.

THe Word preached by false Ministers is not that word unto which God hath promised a blessing of encrease. Or it is not the ordinary way and meanes, Id. Sect. 15. p. 132. which the Scripture speakes of to beget men to the faith. For as a false forged constitution makes a Church a reall and substantiall Idoll. So all that comes from it, is touched with the Idolatry of that con­stitution. This is a ruled opinion of many Divines, The State makes all the publike actions to be formally good or evill. For as the Temple sanctifieth the gold, Matth. 23.17. the Altar the offerings: so the Ordinances of the Church under the Gospell are sanctified unto us. Bucer. in Mat. 23.17 That is (as Bucer truely speaketh) in the use of them made lawfull to us, in that they have their rise from a true and right power.

Seeing therefore the Church in Question wants a right Constitution it must follow that all spirituall actions, done in it (whether Prayer, Preaching, Sacraments, Censures) as they are there done, are none of Gods Ordi­nances, though true it is, in themselves they are of God. If the false Churches of whom we disputed, CAN. Stay. Sect. 15. p. 131.132. Id. Sect. 2. p. 8. be that spi­rituall Babylon mentioned in the Revelation, cap. 18.4. then it is unlawfull for Gods people to goe unto them, to performe any spirituall or religious action, and so con­sequently not to heare the [...]e. But the first is true, Ergo, the later is true also. The proposition needs no proofe, be­cause our opposites and we herein are of opinion alike. The assumption is manifest by these reasons. Artopaeus in Rev. 18. pag. 198. Flac. Illyric. in Rev. 18.4 Par. com. in Hos. 4. pag. 506. Bulling. in Apoc. ca. 18. con. 76. 1. The words in the Text prove it plainely, Come out of her my peo­ple, that is, remove your selves from all false assem­blies, covenant together to walk in all the wayes of God, serve the Lord among your selves in spirit and truth, and returne not from whence you are come. But repent ra­ther that yee have suffered your Consciences to bee [Page 68]wrought upon by any unlawfull Officers. And thus doe the Learned interpret the place, namely of such a com­ing out, as that we may not be bodily present at any of their worship. 2 Cor. 6.1. Ioh. 5.21. Zech. 11.17. Botlac. prompt. al­legoriar. cap. 21. de Minist. It is like that filthy bird, which carry­eth this Motto, Contactu omnia sae­dat. The publisher and others with him have comitted ap­patant Idolatry, maintained it in the Church, and sought thereby to pervert the right wayes of the Lord. Jd. sect. 1. p. 7. Id sect. 15. p. 133. A false Church state is rightly likened to the leprosie spread in the wals of the houses of the Lepers, because of the pollution which it causeth to the persons and things. Take for instance a Citie or Towne, if the civill State or Corporation, which they have be usurped, aevi­sed or derived from a false power, all their publike admi­nistrations are unlawfull, and every one partaking thereof offendeth: So all administrations done in a false Church (whether prayer, Preaching Sacraments, Censures) are uncleane actions and doe defile every receiver, J say, be­cause of the Idoll State, which is devised out of a mans braine, and used as a meanes to serve God in it and by it.

All the Ordinances done after the invention and will of An­tichrist can no otherwise be judged, than a brood common to the nature of the breeders, that is, the Devill, and the Whore of Rome, the Father and Mother that did beget them.

ANSWER.

THe Faithfull are commanded to come out of spiritu­all Babylon and not to communicate with her in false worship or Idolatry, Revel. 18.4. as the Text doth confirme, and your opposites grant. And therein it was needlesse to muster up the testimonies of the Learned, to give evidence in a case maintained and practised notoriously, sc. that we must flye from the society of Rome, and not be present to behold their worship. Your labour herein is superfluous, but that the Names of Learned men here numbred up, might serve to co­ver your nakednesse, when you come to the point in contro­versie, wherein you prove just nothing at all.

But our Churches wherein the Gospell of Christ is purely preached and professed in all points fundamentall, the seales of the Covenant of Grace rightly administred, who are sepa­raced from spirituall Babylon in mind and body, and have fled from her worship and Idolatry, who are built upon Christ the [Page 69]true and firme foundation of his Church, and by Christ him­selfe acknowledged for his people, and graced with his favou­rable presence: Our Churches, I say, cannot be deemed or reputed spirituall Babylon, without great injurie to Christ his truth, his Church and Saints.

By spirituall Babylon in this booke of the Revelation, is meant Rome Christian; departed from the faith, guilty of the blood of Saints, stained with manyfold and fearfull Idolatries, the mother of fornications, who hath made drunke the Kings of the earth with the cup of her poysons, as might bee con­firmed by the Scripture it self, the joynt consent of learned or­thodox Divines, and the testimonie of Papists themselves.

But to brand the Churches of Christ since the reformati­on, who have renounced Antichrists doctrine, worship, and idolatries, and embraced the intire faith of the Lord Jesus, with that odious hatefull name, is contrary to the truth of God, evident reason, and the judgement of all approved god­ly learned men.

You miserably corrupt and pervert the Text, when you give this to be the sense thereof, Remove your selves from all false Assemblies, covenant together to walke in all the wayes of God, serve the Lord among your selves in spirit and truth, and returne not from whence you are come. This is not to interpret Scripture, and learne of them what wee are to thinke, but to racke Scriptures to our sense, and make them speake ac­cording to our fansies, which is an high point of Antichristia­nisme.

If you will stand to your principles, within two hundred yeares after Christ, or lesse, there was not one true Christi­an societie in the whole world, which did walke together in all the wayes of God, and serve God in a Church state among themselves. And will you say, the faithfull are charged of God, in this passage of holy writ, to remove and separate from all Christian assemblies, that then were in the world, and to serve God among themselves. If corruption in doctrine, man­ners, worship, government, and orders, make a false as­sembly, Rome was a false assembly long before the Lord gave commandement to his people to depart thence and separate themselves.

Israel for a time continued in Egypt and Babylon, viz. un­till the Lord sent to bring them forth: and the Church lay [Page 70]hid in Babylon, and that by the providence and approbation of God, long after Rome was miserably corrupted and defi­led. The matter is notorious, and therefore to spend more words about it is needlesse. Hee that considereth the state of things, long before the faithfull separated from Rome, and what is written in defence of that separation, which the re­formed Churches have made, cannot be ignorant thereof. If to come out of Babylon then, had beene to remove from all false assemblies, as you glosse it, it was necessarie the com­mandement had beene given much sooner, or the faithfull should have departed without leave or commandement from God.

I might say to you in your owne words, CAN Stay. §. 15 pag. 135 This is to grati­fie the errour of Montanus, who professed that he knew more than the Apostles. For the Apostles knew nothing of our removing from all false assemblies (as you understand it) and covenauting together to walke in all Gods wayes, and serve God among themselves. If this had beene knowne to John, when hee foretold the Apostasie from the faith, and the ri­sing of the great Whore, he would have made more haste to warne the faithfull to bee gone out of the Churches, and to have withdrawn themselvs, it being a matter of such weight and importance, and so needfull to be done, divers hundred years, before it was ever once thought upon, When the words of a Text are plaine, a gree with the circumstances of the place, the analogie of faith, and other Scriptures, for men then to leave the native sense, and to force a sense contrary to that the letter expresseth, it is to wrest the Scriptures, as you say, and not to expound them by the true rules and Canons of Divinitie. CAN Stay. § 15 p 135. Rev. 18.2, 3. Exite ab ea p [...]pu [...] m [...]. At agit angelus de Babylone mylica, de synagaga nempe Romana, quae ipsa fidei & Evangelit sundamenta corrasit. Park. de polit. Ec [...] l. 1. c. 14. Lay this rule to the present interpretation, which you make of this passage in Scripture, and whomsoever you accuse, you shall finde your self to be a perverter of Scripture, in degree farre above him. For your interpretation is contra­ry to the scope and drift of the place, the rules of faith, and consent of other Scriptures. It speakes not of leaving all ad­ministrations in false Churches, as you speake o [...] false admini­strations and false Churches, but of separation from spiritu­all Babylon, which was the habitation of Divels, and cage of every uncleane spirit and of every uncleane and hatefull bird: which cannot bee said of all administrations which you are pleased to accuse as false. If it may be, spare your words, and [Page 71]let us heare your reasons, for if they be ought they will carry more weight.

A devised constitution (you say) is an Idoll, Whitak. de pontif. Rom. cont. 4. qu 2. p. 146. Si semel ea con­suetudo aut lex obti­nuerit in Theologia, ut liberum sit cuivis distinctiones commi­nisci, nihil in omni religione certum fi­xumque remanebi [...]. Quis enim non eo modo quid vis labe­factare poterit? Ea­plorandae ergo distin­ctiones dil genlius & â judic ndae sunt, ea­que magni facienda est regula, nullas in in Theologia proban­das esse distinctiones, nisi quae aper [...]is Scri­pturarum loc [...]s nitan­tur. and all that comes from it is tainted with the idolatry of that constituti­on. You will say, it is a false Church constitution, if the Minister bee not chosen and ordained by the congregation a­lone, where he is to administer; if a man be received into the societie, who is not a visible Saint; if any idle, ignorant, care­lesse, scandalons, corrupt, usurping Minister be chosen, ordain­ed or suffered; if any notorious or scandalous person bee ad­mitted to the ordinances; if any stinted Liturgie, or forme of Catechising, administration, or prayer be used: with sundry the like, which in your esteem, are arguments of false consti­tutions. Churches, Ministerie, and Worship. Now tell us plainly, is every such Church-constitution an Idoll, and that which is done in these Societies unholy and uncleane? If so, then there was never any one age, wherein the Church-con­stitution was not an Idoll, and the worship of God performed in that Societie, leprous, uncleane, poysoned with Idolatry. The Temple sanctified the Gold, and the Altar the offering: but the Temple, and Altar are not types and figures of exter­nall Church-constitution. Where doe you read this, in the Law, or the Prophets? &c. And if you read it not, how dare you affirme it. Besides, Lev. 16.20. Num. 7 10. 1 Reg. 8.63. the sanctification of the oblati­ons depended upon one Temple, and Altar therein, yet so as both Temple and Altar were sanctified by the offering.

But if we may speake as you doe, A devised constitution is twofold, 1 Absolute and in every respect, when neither Doctrine, Ordinances, office or persons are of God: and this constitution is altogether false, a nullitie, an Idoll, if you please so to call it. 2 In part corrupt, maimed, defective, but having something of God: and that which is done in such a constitution is not false, a nullitie, tainted with the idolatry of the constitution. This distinction is neither devised, strange, nor new, but that which hath ever more beene acknowledged in the Church of God, and is manifest in Scripture, if wee take the word, devised constitution, as this Author doth. For Heretikes and Schismatikes, though they be not of the speci­all number of them, that hold the intire profession of divine truth in unitie, and in that respect be a false constitution; yet as they professe the truth of God revealed in Christ, though [Page 72]maimedly or in part only, and as they administer the ordi­nances or Sacraments of God, that which they doe is not a meere nullitie.

Heresie is Idolatry, and cannot beare children to God, in that it is heresie, but heretikes See D. Feild of the Church, l. 1. c. 14. Aug. de Bapt. cont. Donat. l. 1. c. 10 See Chamier. panst. tom. 2. l. 16 c. 4. Hieron. ad Algasi­am. Antichristus se­debit in templo Dei, vel Hie osolymis ut quidam putant, vel in Ecclesi [...], ut veri­us arbitiamur. 2 Thes. 2.3. Whitak. de po [...]. Rom. cont. 4. q. 5. p. 681. Licet Ecclesia papistica non sit vera ecclesia, retinet tamea aliquas p [...]aerogativas & reliquias ecclesiae Dei ergo di [...]i potest aliquo modo templ [...] Dei misore prophana­tum, plus quam se­ [...]uiu [...]ti [...]m, pene dirutum alque ever­sum, &c Habet illa e [...]clesia Scripturas, e [...]sicerrup [...]as, & p [...]e­ris [...]ue ignotas, tamen aliqui allas legunt & intelligent, & hinc doct [...]am salutarem hauriu [...]. Fst apud illos quoddam mini­s [...]e [...]ium, & aliqua verbi prad catio quae valet sine dubio non­n [...]llisad salutē est ibi baptismus quoad sub­stantiam, &c. Calv. instit. 4. c. 2. par. 11 CAN Stay §. 15. p. 136. & §. 7 p 93. may beare children to God, in that they professe and practice, that which Christians should, and doe both professe and practise: and have receiv­ed that degree, order, office, Ministery; and calling, which is holy, by vertue whereof they doo administer the holy things of God.

The Church of Rome is a false constitution, but baptisme administred in that Church is not idolatry, nor a meere nul­litie. If the Church of Rome were not a Church in some re­spects, but a meere Idoll, the Pope could not be that Anti­christ, a principall rebell, a notorious traitor against Christ. If we speak absolutely, or compare Rome with Churches truly Christian, it is no true Church, but the Synagogue of Satan: But if we speake of it in opposition to the Jewes, of Turkes, or other professed Infidels, it hath so much of a visible Church, as a man cannot say it is no Church at all; so much true doctrine is in it, as sufficeth to support the title of Anti­christ, and some ordinances are so administred, as that it can­not be said, they are meer nullities.

In the true Church many wicked ones are found, that are no lesse prophane, sacrilegious, enemies to peace, the vassals of Satan, possessed by the Divell, dead in sin and accursed of God, than heretiks or schismatiks, who yet for that they have that order, office, or degree of ministerie, which is holy, doe no lesse nor with lesse effect administer the holy sacraments, than those who are the samplars of all pietie and vertue.

The faithfull and holy Ministers administer and receive the Sacraments with good profit, and benefit to themselves and others. The hypocriticall, with benefit to others, not to them­selves. The prophane being not put from their places, doe officiate with hurt to themselves, scandall to others, but to the everlasting comfort of them that partake worthily. The hereticall and idolatrous administer the Sacraments, that are holy, and in their owne nature, the meanes, pledges, and assurances of salvation, but without benefit to themselves and others, that continue in sin. Thus the Prophets, Apo­stles, Martyrs, and faithfull, have held communion in the Or­dinances [Page 73]of grace, with such whose calling and conversation was not approved of God.

You say, the Martyrs first and last would not receive this distinction, lest to save their lives, they should lose their soules, and you reckon up many, who, as you write, would rather give their bodies to the fire, than heare or receive the Sacrament, in false Churches or Societies. But in this you la­vish, as in every thing else, and hide the truth under the am­biguitie of the phrase. The Martyrs laid downe their lives, rather than they would defile themselves with idolatry, bee present at the Masse, or joyne themselves as members of that Antichristian Synagogue: in all which they did, as becom­meth the faithfull servants of Jesus Christ. But you cannot produce one Martyr of your opinion, who denyed, that any thing of God was to be found in those Assemblies, or that re­fused to joyne in the pure ordinances of God, with Societies separated from spirituall Babylon, because of some defect or may me in their Church constitution.

In the whole Catalogue of Martyrs, try if you can bring forth one, who in these things was of your minde. And what a vaine thing is it to pretend the example of all the Martyrs, when there is not one among them that doth approve your cause. If the example of the Martyrs be of any weight with you, as here you beare the Reader in hand: CAN Neces. of separation, p. 190, 191, 192. of necessitie you must condemne your rash and presumptuous censuring, your unadvised sinfull separation, from the worship and ministerie in our Church, as Antichristian and Idolatrous. For certaine it is, the Martyrs stood members of our Societies, and dyed in the defence of that doctrine and worship, which we professe and practise. Many words you spend in answer to this rea­son, and reproaches you cast upon your adversarie, but one word is not to be found that makes directly to take away the force of the Argument.

It was the answer of Frederick Duke of Saxonie, who be­ing prisoner to Charles the fifth, and promised releasement, if hee would goe to the Masse, Summum in terris Domi­num agnosco Caesarem, in coclis Christum. The like did the Prince of Condee: but neither of them did refuse to joyne with the reformed Churches, because they deemed their Church constitution defective or erroneous, in this or that particular. To pretend the consent of popish and protestant [Page 74]Divines in this matter, is egregious ignorance, or impudency, for it is well knowne they are all generally of another minde.

Your instance from a City or Towne, Similitudes bee no syllogismes. Earth­ly similitudes of your making, may not controll the heavenly precepts of Gods owne gi­ving. Bilson. Christ. part. 4. pag. 322. Have you no surer ground of your ca­tholike doctrine for adoring Ima­ges, than a single similitude taken from the civill and externall reverence that is yeelded to Princes seates and seales? Id p. 329. if the Civill power be usurped, is not to the purpose, nor true in all respects. Not to the purpose, because what is of God in these Societies, is not done by power, meerely usurped, but by power and ver­tue from God, though in the ministration, that which is e­vill be not approved of God: for wheresoever any superna­turall truth of Christian Religion is taught, and any ordinan­ces of grace dispensed truly for substance, there is some truth of ministery though many wayes polluted. And where the in­tire faith is professed and received, and the ordinances of grace administred truly, there is a true ministery for substance ordained of God, what other defects or maimes soever it may labour under.

Not true, because in the Civill estate, That which is done by power, usurped, and unlawfull, in some cases is a nullitie, but in other some it is available and stands in force. For it is a rule in the Civill law, That it is one thing to be a true Ma­gistrate, another to bee in the Magistracy, or to execute the Magistrates office. From which distinction, is gathered this generall ruled case, or sentence, That the acts of him that was a false or unlawfull Magistrate may be lawfull and just. And the same may bee said, and was ever held in the Church of God, of corrupt and ungodly Ministers, though they bee not true Ministers, that is, approved fit, and rightly qualified, yet so long as they be in the place of Ministers, the acts of their ministery be good, that is, effectuall, and of force, if they ob­serve the forme of administration prescribed by Christ.

CAN Stay. Sect. 15. pag 133.

The Lord hath not promised to them his blessing and acce­ptance: what the Lord may accept or will, we dispute not, on­ly this, I say, whosoever heareth in a false Church, cannot by any promise that he hath in the word of God, expect Gods blessing on that which he doth: the reason is, because a true constitution of a true Church, that is, where men are gathe­red according to the Gospell of Christ, is that only lawfull religious societie, or communion of Saints, wherein God will [Page 75]be honoured, whereby hee will bee served, and whereto hee hath promised his presence and acceptance, so then howsoever we are not bound unto hearing in a true Church, necessitate medii; as if Gods grace were tyed to the meanes this way, yet as they say in Schooles, necessitate praecepti: if we consi­der Gods commandement, CAN Stay. §. 3. pag. 59. so we are bound to Church hear­ing only in a true Church, and in no other Church can we ex­pect Gods presence, promise and acceptance. Such Churches unto whom God hath made no promise in his word, to blesse the things there done, ought not by Gods people to be resorted to; but God in his word hath made no promise to blesse the things done in a false church; therefore Gods people are not to goe unto false churches. The proposition cannot be exce­pted against: for, 1. The Scriptures prove it clearly, Jer. 23.21, 22. Exodus 20 24. Psalme 134.3, and 147.13. Again, there is no dutie charged upon us, but there is a bles­sing promised unto the due performance of it. The assum­ption is as cleare, and thus wee prove it. If false churches have not the promise of Gods presence, they cannot from the word of God expect his blessing upon what they doe, but the first is true, Ergo, the second. The Major which is only controver­sall we prove thus. If every false church be an Idoll, Exod. 20.4, 5. And God require his people to come out thence, Rev. 18.4. threatned to destroy it, Rev. 20.8, 9. and will doe it, and promise his presence unto his true church, Mat. 18.20. Then he is not present in the false: But the first is true, there­fore the second.

ANSWER.

You struggle hard, as all men may perceive, but set not one foot forward. Our Church is an idoll, therefore wee must not hold communion with it: God hath promised no bles­sing to his ordinances therein, because the Church is an Idoll. This is your circle wherein you walke up and down. But to helpe you out of this mire, if it may be: 1. Rom. 3.2. Can 1.6. Rain. de idolola. l. 2. c. 1. p. 2. Where you take it for granted that our Church is false, and therfore Christ is not present with us; we on the contrary are assured, that we are a people in covenant with Christ, to whom hee hath com­mitted his heavenly oracles, and seales of the covenant, a­mongst whom he feedeth his flock in greene pastures, and [Page 76]causeth them to lye downe by the still waters, with whom he is present when they meet together. Mat. 18.20. Exod. [...]0.24. Psal. 134.3. Ioh. 10.4.5. He hath set up his taber­nacle amongst us, and dwelleth with us, and watcheth over us, and worketh by his Ministers, not only to call men unto salvation, but to nourish and build them forward unto life e­verlasting. We are separated from Idols, wee heare the voice of the true shepheard, and follow not strangers, but fly from them; we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, and worship him sincerely, according to his will. He standeth at the doore knocking, and to such as open unto him hee com­meth unto them, and they sup with him, and he with them. And therefore Christ is our Shepheard, our King, our Savi­our, and of his rich grace and love doth embrace us as his people, and the flock of his pasture, beareth our prayers, and accepteth our service. This is our glory that Christ is ours, and we are his, and it were better for us to dye, than that our glo­rying herein should be made void.

Secondly, seeing this tearme, False Church, is so familiar with you, we will consider what it meaneth, and how farre it doth stand true, that God hath made no promise to blesse things done in a false Church. These words, True and false Church, are used oft to signifie, as much as pure and corrupt, found and languishing Church. And as there is scarce a Church so pure, which hath not some impuritie, nor so true, which hath not some falshood admixed: so there is no Church so false or impure, which hath not somewhat of God, or some supernaturall Christian truth within it, For if no su­pernaturall Christian truth bee received or professed, there is no Church. Infidels being cleane without the Church, deny and utterly reject the principles of Christianitie. He­retikes or false Christians, in respect of generall truths which they openly professe, are Christians, or of the Church, but in respect of their particular errours, condemned of all men that be of sound beliefe. A Church is not to be esteemed false for some corruptions, nor impure for some disorders, no more, than we account him a sickly man who now and then findes some wearinesse or distemper. Neither is a Church to be accounted true, because of some truths which they pro­fesse, Act. 2.41, 42, 46 worship, which they practise, or use of the Sacraments, which they retaine. The notes of a pure Church are, intire profession of the Gospell, and saving truth of God, the right [Page 77]use of the Sacraments, holinesse of conversation, the sound preaching of the word of life, fervent and pure calling up­on Gods name, subjection to their spirituall guides, where­by they may bee directed and built forward in the wayes of life, mutuall communion in the ordinances of worship, Eph. 4.11, 12. and Christian fellowship with all Saints, and true visible Churches of Jesus Christ.

Those Churches to which all these notes agree truelie, are to bee esteemed pure in their measure: but those to whom all doe not agree, or not so truely, they are to be esteemed lesse pure or true, and that in comparison more or lesse according as more or fewer of these notes, common, speciall or proper, shall be found more or lesse pure amongst them.

Where all these notes are to be found purely, the Church is excellent for degree, pure and famous; where any of these is wanting or impure, the Church is so much defective or im­pure, though it may be pure in comparison of others.

The profession of the true faith, Acts 14.22.23, 27 and the framing of our life and conversation according to the direction of the word, with the right administration of the Sacraments and comely order, Ier. 4.22. Mat. 13.14, 15. Isa. 30.9, 10, 11. & 5.7, 8, 9 &c. are signes of a Church in a good state and condition. But it may fall out, that the profession of faith alone by publike preaching and hearing of the word, administration of the Sa­craments, prayers and thanksgiving doth take place, when good order is neglected, and if life degenerate from the profession: for in this case she ceaseth not to be the true CHVRCH of Christ, so long as it pleaseth him not to give her a Bill of di­vorce.

True doctrine in all points, and the due and right admini­stration of the Sacraments in all things according to the word both for substance and circumstance, is the note of a pure Church, and in good plight. But true Doctrine in the maine grounds and Articles of faith, though mixt with defects and errours in other matters, not concerning the life and soule of Religion, and the right administration of the Sacraments for substance, though in the manner of dispensation some things be not so well ordered as they might and ought, are notes and markes of a true and sound Church, though somewhat crased in health and soundnesse, by errors in doctrine, corruptions in the worship of God, and evils in life and manners.

A false Church is that which holds neither the truth of faith [Page 78]intirely, nor the integrity of divine worship, nor comely or­der which God hath appointed for the government of his house, nor holinesse of conversation. But addeth to the Ar­ticles of faith, to that which is worshipped, and to the substan­tiall means wherby God is worshipped, and to the holy Com­mandements, which God hath given for the direction of his people, or detracteth and perverteth the right sense of faith, not considering that which is worshipped as is meete, mang­ling the Ordinances of God, and transforming the lawfull manner of worship into another forme, and inverteth the ho­ly Commandement by corrupt glosses and sinister interpre­tations, which destroyeth the life and power of godli­nesse.

One false Church may bee more corrupt and rotten than a­nother, as being more deepely tainted in matters of higher importance and more generally than another: as some may bee corrupt in matters of faith, others in doctrine and wor­ship both, Ier. 2.11, 13. 2 Reg. 16.3. 1 Reg. 18.21. Ezek. 16.20 and some in all the particulars mentioned. Thus Israel worshipped God and the Calves, yea the Lord and Baal.

And as one false Church may be more corrupt than ano­ther, Hen. Ains. 2. part page 62. Did not the Priests, rulers, and people con­demne the Pro­phets of God sent in all ages; and vvas not Ierusalem the holy City & seate of the Priest-hood guilty of their bloud? Luke 13.33, 34. vvas not vile and grosse Ido­latry practised of­ten in Judah and Jerusalem by the Priests and Princes? Ezek. 23.11. Did not Iuda forsake the Lord and turne their faces from his Tabernacle, shut the doores of his house, quench his Lamps, and neither burn Incense nor offer burnt offering in the Sanctuary, unto the God of Jsrael? 2 Chro. 29.6, 7. Ʋriah the Priest made an Altar Idolatrous like that in Da­mascus, and polluted Gods Worship in the Temple, 2 Reg. 16.10, 11, 12, 16. Pashur the sonne of Immer the Priest being Governour in the House of the Lord persecuted Ieremie for preaching the truth, Jer. 20.1, 2. and himselfe prophesied lyes, ve. 6. See Ier. 32.31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36. Mic. 3.11. Mal. 2.8, 9. or at one time than another: so one false Church may have more of God in it than another, and at another time. For the lesse grievous the errors are which the false Church hold­eth, or the lesse abominable the idolatry which it maintaineth, the more divine truth it embraceth, the more effectuall is that worship of God which it retaineth.

The true Church of God which is comparatively pure, may be called false though improperly, in respect of that corrupti­on in doctrine and manners, errours, schismes, divisions, su­perstition or prophanenes, which through humane frailty and negligence cleaveth unto it.

And a false Church may comparatively be called a Church true or pure in respect of them that be more grossely defiled, as it hath more truth and purity in it.

Also the true Churches of God have sometimes bin distinct visible societies from the false Churches, and by many degrees in themselves more pure from tincture and infection, than at other times and some others have beene. As in the dayes of Abiah, Iudah was by many degrees more free from polluti­on than afterwards.

In Pauls time the integrity of Rome was famous: Corinth many wayes reproved: They of Galatia much more out of square. But the true and Orthodox Church hath sometimes beene so mixed with others in outward society, that it hath beene hard to find in the whole world a distinct Congregati­on of sound and intire professors of all supernaturall truths, who joyned in the use of Gods Holy Ordinances, but the members of the true visible Church were dispersed and scatte­red, and mingled with false Christians or false worshippers in society, and the true Church lay hid in the false.

Now to apply these things.

1. If by a false Church you understand a Church erring in points of faith exceeding dangerous, and corrupting the pure worship of God with reall Idolatry, with whom the faithfull may not lawfully hold Communion: yet then that which they have of God amongst them, though not rightly admi­nistred, is effectuall by the blessing of GOD according, to promise.

As Baptisme administred by the Heretikes holding the forme of Baptisme, and of Popish Priests, is true Baptisme, and not to be reiterated. For one and the same society may in one sense have somewhat of the true Church, and in another bee the Synagogue of Satan: and their Ministers exercise the Mi­nistery and service of Christ, when they themselves bee the bond-slaves of Satan. It is true, God threatens to destroy such societies, and is highly displeased with the service that is done there as such, because it is not done as it ought: but as he is pleased to continue his Ordinance, so he is pleased to give it force and validity according to his institution. And it is not strange that God should bee displeased with a thing not done according to his institution, when the institution it [Page 80]selfe hee doth approve and blesse to some according to his free covenant.

2. If by a false Church you understand a Church maimed and corrupt with errors in doctrin and manners, neglect of di­scipline, disorders in Ministers and people, then as occasion may bee offered Christ hath bound the faithfull to bee pre­sent at his ordinances in such Assemblies, and promised to blesse them that draw nigh unto him therein.

In the Church of Corinth there were Divisions, Sects, E­mulations, 1 Cor. 3.3. 1 Cor. 6.1, 2. 2 Cor. 10.10. 1 Cor. 15.12. 1 Cor. 5.1. 1 Cor. 11.19, 20. contentions and quarrels; going to Law one with another for every trifle, and that under Infidels. Pauls name and credit was despitefully called into question there, the resurrection of the dead was denyed by some; that wicked­nesse was there wincked at, which was not heard of among the heathen; the Lords Supper was horribly profaned, things indifferent used with offence, 2 Cor. 12.20, 21. Ambr. in 1 Cor. 11 They stood striv­ing for their obla­tions. Hier. in 1 Cor. 11. In Ec­clesia convenientes oblationes suas sepa­ratius offerebant. Apoc. 2.4, 5, 6. Apoc. 3.20, 21. Fornication not repented of, and idolatry practised in eating meats sacrificed to Idols in the Idoll Temple. And all this notwithstanding, the assemblies were kept, the faithfull frequented the Ordinances and God did blesse them according to promise. Ephesus was extream­ly decayed in her first love, and though threatned to have her candlesticke removed unlesse she repent, Christ doth never lay his charge upon the faithful to depart from his Ordinances. Of Laodicea it is said, that she was neither hot nor cold, and then we may easily conceive she was overgrown with corrup­tions, the proper fruits of negligence, security, selfe concei­tednesse, &c. For which unlesse she repent, a terrible judge­ment is denounced against her: and yet the faithfull are never exhorted to flee from her society, but to repent of her sinne, and the promise is made for encouragement, that if they open unto him, Apoc. 2.20. hee will come in and Suppe with them, and they with him.

If by a false Church you unde stand a visible society, wher­in the faire greater part is corrupt in the profession of Faith concerning the Articles of Religion, and in the wo ship of God, by adding and detracting in the substaniall meanes, and transforming the object of worship it selfe; corrupt in the cal­ling and ordination of Officers, the forme of government, the Officers set a part for the worke of God, and the lives and con­versations of the members of that society: If in this sense the false Church bee taken, then it may and hath fallen out for a [Page 81]long time together, that the true Church of God hath lyen hid in the false, and that by Gods allowance and approbation, Field of the Church lib. 3. cap. 8. in which case the LORD commanded the faithfull to bee present at His Ordinances, and promised His blessing unto them, though administred in a corrupt Church and after a cor­rupt manner.

The true Church in corrupt times hath been mixed with the false, not as actuall members of that society as corrupt, but as they have been hid in that society, as good Corne overtop­ped with Weedes; or a little gold or purer metall in a great clod of Earth; God of his infinite mercy so providing for and preserving his poore people.

In time of the Iudges the Israelites did every man that which seemed good in his owne eyes, that is, Iudges 1.76. Sept. [...] Ad bujus loci simili­tudinem legitur in Sederzata sic, extitit seculum abs (que) rege. Ioseph. lib. 5. c. 2. 1 Reg. 19, 10. Rom. 11, 3, 4. Hosea 4, 1, 6. 2 Par. 13, 5. Isa. 1, 2, 3, 4, 21, 22 29. Isa. 57, 3. Ezc. 14, 5. Ier. 23, 8, 14 Lam. 4, 13, 14. Ier 2, 8, 11, 13. Sept. [...]. Verse 26, 27 Verse 29. worshipped God as hee pleased. The Prophets testifie, that the Church did not only faile in Israel, but in Iudah likewise. I have brought up Children and they have rebelled against me. Ah sinfull Nation, a people laden with iniquitie, a corrupt seede. How is the faithfull Citie become an Harlot! Thy silver is turned into drosse, and thy Wine mixed wi [...]h water. They shall be confounded because of their Oakes wherein they delighted. The Land ( viz. of Iudah) is filled with Idols, they wor­ship the worke of their Hands, the Priests said not, where is the Lord? and they that should minister the Law, knew mee not saith the Lord. The Pastors also offended against me, and the Prophets prophesied by Baal, and went after things, that did not profit. My people have changed their glory for that which did not profit. My people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountaine of living waters, to digge them pits, even broken pits, that can hold no water. The house of Israel is confounded, they, and their Kings, and their Princes, and their Prophets, saying to the wood, Thou art my Father. All of you have forsaken me, saith the LORD, Her treacherous Sister Iudah feared not, but went and played the Harlot also. The backe-sliding Israel, Ier. 3, 8, 11, & 11, 13, 14. Ezek. 16, 46, 47, 48, 51, 52. Ier. 5, 1 & 6, 13, & 7, 28, & 9, 1. Isay 57, 3, 4. hath justified her selfe more than treacherous Iuda. And as shee was thus horribly corrupted with Idolatrie, so with profanenesse, impenitency, impuden­cie in sinning, rebellion, stubbornnesse, oppression, and what not? But when all things were thus miserably disordered, the faithfull in Iuda did not separate themselves from the Or­dinances of Religion, or withdraw themselves into a distinct [Page 82]visible societie from the rest. In the age before our Saviours time it grew exceeding wicked againe. Mat. 8.4. Mar. 5.36 Luke 7.4, 5, 9. Mat. 4.23. Mar. 1.21. Luke 4.6. Iohn 18.20. Luke 2.22, 37, 41. Iun. animad. in Bel. contr. 4. lib. 3. c. 16 s. 14. But neither did our Saviour, nor his Disciples before his death take upon them to crect a new visible Church altogether distinct from the erring Synagogue, but lived in that Church and frequented the Or­dinances, neither as absolute members of the Synagogue, nor yet as the visible Church distinct from it. But as visible mem­bers of that Primitive Church from which that Synagogue had degenerated.

In the New Testament, 2 Thes. 2.7. Revel. 17.5. Iniquitas sed mystica id est, pietatis nomine palliata. Gloss. ordi­nar. Syr. Mysterium ini­qui jam incipit effi­caz esse. [...] est vis certa operandi, non autem significandi. Cham. panst. som. 2. lib. 16. cap. 7. Hesych. [...], praeparatur, adorna­tur, instruitur. [...] quoddam doctrinae, quod si [...] sumptum contrarium sit fidei, Cham. panst. tom. 2. l. 16. cap. s 5. 2 Thes. 2.3. Heb. 3.13. Matth. 13.25, 39. 2 Cor. 11.3.13, 15. Jun. cont. 4. lib. 3. cap. 16. Generalis decessio sen Apostasia dicitur universalis ant communis. Ʋniversalem negamus fore, semper igitur erit Ecclesia, quamvis lalens. Communem fore affirmamus, ut affirmat Paulus. Ier. 28.16. & 29, 32. Sept. [...] Deut. 13.10. the Apostle telleth us the mysterie of iniquitie began to worke in his dayes: whereby he under­stands not common heresies, and corruption of manners, but some great and hidden thing begun in the Apostles time to creepe on by degrees, not suddenly to vanish, but to continue for many ages, and to grow into an exceeding high mountaine. As the mysterie of godlinesse, which began presently after the fall, took it complement by degrees, and that at a certaine and appointed time: so it was in this also, which at the first was small, but grew as things durable by degrees into an exceeding huge bignesse. The spirit hath foretold, that there should come an Apostasie or defection, not from the Roman Empire (for that was not opposite to Christ) but from the faith, and that not light or in some particular point, or for a short time (for such Haeretickes there had beene already) but grievous, gene­rall, and of long continuance.

That which the Prophet Ieremy, when he speaketh of false Prophets and their Prophecies, calleth [...], that is, as the 70. translate it, and the thing it selfe requireth, a declin­ing, a revolt or Apostasie, not every one, but that to which the authority of the true God is pretended.

And so the departure from the faith is not a revolt to Gen­tilisme, 2 Tim. 4.1, 2. Aug. De Civ. Dei li. 26. ca. 19. Quem refugam vocat, uti (que) a Deo vero. but a giving too easie heed and attention to some do­ctors professing, yet indeed corrupting the Christian Religion. As when it is said of Paul, that he taught Apostasie from the Law, the meaning is not that he had revolted to the Gentiles, [Page 83]or denyed the Messias, or the Law or the Prophets, but that under pretence of the Messias he had polluted the purity of the doctrine of the Law and the Prophets. This Apostasie then was small in beginning, encreased in time, Acts 21.21. Non statim desilitur a bonis initiis ad ma­lum finem, sed per gradus pedetentim descenditur. P. Ramus Epist. ad Carolum Lotharing. an. 1570. De quin­decim a Christo secu­lis, primum vereesse aureum, reliqua quò longius abscederent, esse nequiora at (que) deteriora. Ʋsser de siccess. ca. 1. S. 8. Jam inde a principio Mysterium iniquitatis peragi caeperit, ut mirandum non sit, si seculie subsequentibus, nonnulla de­ctrinae pontificiae zizania sensim & sine sensu succreverint, a veteribus illis, aliud praesertim agentibus, minus animadversa. Euseb. Hist. l. 3. cap. 32. & lib. 4. cap. 22. Edit. Graec. Niceph. Hist. l. 4. ca. 1. Neque corum qui praecesserunt virtutem assecutos, neque ita simplicers, ut magistri eorum, orationem consecutos esse. and grew greater and greater, not perceived at first, not opposed by godly men, it possessed the successors of holy Teachers themselves. This corruption of the faith was so brought in by degrees, that the most vigilant could scarce discerne it, when it was first sowed. The successors of Godly men received it, and the godly them­selves for a great while groaned under it, for it was a clande­stine Conspiracy and opposition of the faith, not directly but obliquely, not in expresse tearmes but by consequences.

So that of the first fifteene ages of the Church of the New Testament, that cannot be denyed which Carolus Lotharin­gus the Cardinall uttered in Porsiacâ responsione; That the first was golden, but the rest, the further they departed, the worse, and more corrupt they were. Whiles the Apostles li­ved the Church remained a Virgin, pure and uncorrupt: but within the three first ages from the rising of the Gospell, her health was crased by errors in doctrine, superstitious abuses crept into the worship of God, breach of comely order in Government, and offences in life, whereof we finde the Pa­stors to make large complaint. It cannot be denyed but that they that succeeded the Apostles did excell in Piety and God­linesse, but withall it is most certaine they did neither attaine the vertue of them that went before them, nor teach so pure­ly and truely as their masters and instructors, as Nicephorus observeth; And what is said of Hon [...]er in another matter is not unfitly applyed to this purpose, few Children are like to their Parents.

The liberty of mans will and dignity of workes was too much advanced: Many thought the soules of the just should not see God untill the day of judgement. The Sacrament of the Supper was ministred to infants, which abuse is reformed [Page 84]by the Church of Rome her selfe: They dipped the Sacramen­tall bread into the Wine sometimes, and so administred them together. Clem. Alex. strom. lib. 1. T. C. repl. 1 pag. 74. Maldonat. in Io. 6 Cypr. de laps. Iustin. Mart. apolog 2. Gyp. lib. 2. ep. 3 ad Caecilium or ep. 63. & epist. 48. Hieron. in Mar. cap. 14. Polydor. de inveator. rer. lab. 5. cap. 91. Iust Mart. qu. 155. Basil. de Spir. Sanct. Of the controversie about the Feast Easter, See Eusch. lib. 5. cap. 23. Sozom. l. l. 7. cap. 15. Socrat. l. 5. cap. 22. Altars brought into the Church by Sixtus the second about 265.86. Sewide Apol. art. 3. div. 26. Tho. Beacon. 3. vol. Sup. print. Lond. 1562. Which others thinke came into the Church about the yeare, 590. They carryed it home with them, and laid it up in Chests to be received privately; Wine was mixed with water in the administration of the Sacrament of the Supper. Deacons preached. Women Baptized, Baptisme was stained with su­perstitious rites and Ceremonies in daily use, many rites and Customes practised which had no ground in the Word of God, and sundry things observed as Apostolicall, which were directly contrary to the Apostles Doctrine or example. Within two hundred yeares after Christ, there was crept into the Church many idle Ceremonies, and the simplicity of Christs Ordinances refused. Each man as he had either credit or authority, presumed of himselfe to adde somewhat to Christs institution, and the flesh delighting in her own devi­ces, Tertul. de Coron. Milit. delivered the same with a strait charge, as if Christ Him­selfe had taken order for it. In Tertullians time we may find many strange inventions taken up in Baptisme. Three dip­pings in the Water; Tasting Milke and Hony; Abstaining from all other washing for a seven night after. Cyp ep. 72. ad Boni­facium. Cyp ep. 34 Cyp. de laps. S. 4. Euseb. Hist. l. 8. c. 1 In Cyprians time there was consecration of water, and such estimation of oyle, that no man was thought to bee a Christian, that was baptised without it: of the memorials of Martyrs; and what blemishes appeared in the conversation of Christians, who list may read in Cyprian and others. Sabel. Enead. 7. l. 4. Nuda fuit abinitio anmis ceremoniarum ratio; plus pietatis babens quam appa­ratus. Osiand. Hist. Eccles. cent. 3. l. 3. cap. 11 Paulatim cerem niae auctae sunt, homi­num superstitiosorum [...]pinionibua [...].

In the three ages following, though the doctrine of salva­tion and substance of Gods Worship, was maintained in all fundamentall points, and the Omnipotency of the Pope was not knowne, nor Images worshipped, the Scripture was read and Prayers made in a knowne tongue; the Sacrament of the Supper was administred to the People in both kindes; men women and Children had free liberty to read the holy Scrip­tures, the Sacrament was not adored, nor the doctrin of Tran­substantiation heard of. Neverthelesse manifest seeds of An­tichristianisme [Page 85]were sowed and began to appeare in some strength. The state of the Church was lamentable, the cor­ruptions many and great, both in respect of doctrine, worship, government, and holinesse of conversation. Magdeburg cent. 4. cap. 6. col. 440. Sub­i [...]de magis magisque traditiones humanae cumulatae sunt, Per. in Rom. sec. 106. Aug. Enchirid [...]a [...] 110. Chrys. tom. 4. ad pop. 66. in 1 Cor. 16. hom 43. Cham. panst [...]. tom. 2 lib. 20. c. 5. sec. 19. Whitak. de Pontif. Rom Praef. ad audi­tores sec. 5. Br [...]ghtm. a poc. c. 4. 7. & 12, 6, 13, 15. Socrat. hist. 7. c. 11. About the year 430, the Romane and Alexandrian Bishops left the sacred function, & degenerated into secular rule, Euscb. de vila Constant. l. 4. c. 40, 43. Socrat. l. 1. c. 8, 22, & l. 4. c. 18. Arnob. advers. Gent. l. 8. Origen. cont. Cet [...] l. 7. Conc. Elib. c. 36. Calfeh. against Mart. Pref. to the reader. Chamier. pa [...]str. t. 2 l. [...]6; c. 7, sic. 6. Bils. Christ. part. 14. pag, 351, &c. Gregor. l, 7. cp. 5 3, ad Secund. in & l. 9. cp. 9. Aug. epi. 118, 119, See Caranz. sum. Concil. fol. 43. Iustin Martyr, Tortullian, Clomens Roma­nus, Eactantius and others, vvere of opinion, that no particular judgement passed upon the Saints, untill the laft day, Sixt. Sen. Biblioth. l. 6. an. 345. The Pastors of this age spake more unwarily of justification, and grace, than was meet, prayer for the dead was ordinarie, the foundation of prayer unto Saints, was laid and defended by the teachers themselves, with overgreat zeale, in the superstitious vi­gils, and frequenting the Sepulchers of Martyrs. The for­mer prophanation of the Sacraments by superstitious rites much increased, some whereof are abolished by the papists themselves. Libertie is taken from the Ministers, the Bi­shops contend among themselves, with ambition, hatred, affecting high titles and precedencie, more than the good of Gods Church, the pleasure of peace and securitie tooke away all care of godlinesse. Now they seeke the reliques of Saints, goe on pilgrimage to Ierusalem, consecrate Temples to Martyrs, esteeme it more religion to build certaine places and to pray in them, than in others, and to live by prescri­ptions and will-worship of Monkes, &c. than to walke ac­cording to the rule of Gods Word. Now they give them­selves to corrupt religion, with idle and impure rites: Ima­ges that were not mentioned in the first and second ages of the Church, in the fourth, fifth, and sixt age, were brought into the Church in some parts, painted upon the walles, re­tained for Historicall and Rhetoricall use, to informe the un­derstanding, and stirre up devotion, and of some began to be worshiped, which Gregory himselfe disliked. Monkes kept the communion at home, and wanting a priest, communicate themselves. No publike assemblies could be found, in which the ordinances of God did flourish intirely. Augustine com­plained of the multitude of rites and ceremonies which were in his time, wherewith the Church was grievously burdened, but in the ages following was much more intolerable. Of the particular slips and errours of the ancients it is needlesse to say more.

Here I would demand, was this Church all this while [Page 86]thus corrupted, the true church of Christ or a fals? was the true worship of God performed in these assemblies the true wor­ship, or was it pernicious Idolatry? If a true Church, then a so­cietie, T. C. repl. 1. pag. 73 wherein corruption of Doctrine and of the Sacraments, hurtfull Ceremonies, dominion and pomp of the clergie, new orders and functions of the Ministerie, is to be found, may be the true Church of God. And what then can you object a­gainst the Church of England, to prove it a false Church? If a false Church, Fulk ansvver to the Rhem. in Eph 4.13 all the true Bi­shops of the primi­tive Church for six hundred yeares and more, after Christ, in all neces­sary points of do­ctrine agree vvith us, and therefore vvere ancestors of our Church. In the later times also for every age vvee can name divers pa­stours and teachers even in the most darke times, &c. Calfeh. against Mar. preface to the rea­der: Greg. epist. l. 7, in­dict. 2, c. 109. Concil Nicen. a, but that Councel vvas not generally re­ceived. Sigth. in an. 755. Reger Howden con­tinuat. Beda anno 792. Feild of the chuteh l. 3, cap. 8. See Calfehil against Mart. art. 3. p. 58, 69, &c. Bilson Christian subject, part 4, page 316, 317. This vvas about the yeare of our Lord 1160. See Vsser de suceess. Eccles. History of the Waldenses, Daltha Lydia hist, Chalo­ner credo Eccles. part 2, sect. 2. then either the faithfull were bound to a­voide all societie and fellowship with it in the ordinances, which a sober minded man will not affirme: or all com­municating with a false Church in the ordinances of God, is not pernicious idolatry. The faithfull which lay hid in this corrupted state of the Church, and did partake in the ordinances of worship, were never held and reputed I­dolaters,

In the ages following the mystery of iniquitie did grow amaine, for the worship of Images first began, and after was concluded, the Pope obtained to bee called head of the uni­versall Church, Saints were invocated as Mediators, the Com­munion was mangled and delivered in one kind, the merit and dignitie of workes advanced to the prejudice of Gods grace; the doctrine of reall presence, and orall eating of Christs flesh in the Sacramant by good and bad, and the ado­ration of the Eucharist, was taught and received. These grosse corruptions prevailed for a time in the Church, before they were concluded upon in Synods or Councels, opposed by some, condemned by others, and manfully withstood, espe­cially the worshipping of Images. During which time the faithfull who condemned these abominations did lie hid in the Church, keeping themselves undefiled from these er­rours, but separated not themselves from the ordinances of grace, nor gathered themselves into a distinct body.

After these abominations were concluded, the first that se­parated themselves were the Waldenses, Albigenses, or poore men of Lyons, who withdrew themselves from the societie of the Romane Synagogue, and worshiped God in distinct [Page 87]companies according to his will. These are reported to be men of sound life and god linesse, by the testimonie of very e­nemies themselves, notwithstanding they were most shame­fully traduced, and grievously persecuted for Christs sake.

But after this separation made by them, If sheepe in a pa­sture, vvhere vene­mous hearbs are mixed with vvhol­some, can by the instinct of nature make choise of that vvhich is pro­per for them, and abstaine from the contrary; vvhat marvaile is it if the flocke of Christ, vvho know the voice of the true Shepheard from the voice of stran­gers, should by the guidance of Gods assisting spirit doe the same, Chalon­credo, Cameron, dc Eccles. ca. de schism, See Field of the church. l. 3 [...] 6, 8. Carleton descript. ca. 1, p. 8. divers other god­ly men did patiently endure the tyranny of Antichrist and groaned under that heavie yoake, bewailing the misery, and reproving the sinnes of the time, sought to reclaime others, and labour to keepe their owne selves free, but did not actu­ally separate from the societie. And this (as the learned judge) was done, if not by Gods commandement, at least by graci­ous indulgence. Vntill the time of the Trent Councell (saith one) the Church although oppugned with errours and de­ceits of divers kinds, oppressed with tyranny, did not pati­ently endure the tyranny of the Pope, and the impudency of the Fraterculi. And though oftentimes before they had thought of separation, yet they could never effect it, untill that was fulfilled which the Scripture had foretold.

It is here to be further noted, that neither the Waldenses, who first separated, nor the reformed Churches which in af­ter times cast off the yoke of Antichrist, and abolished his I­dolatry, did make such a pure and perfect reformation in all things as was to be desired. And therefore if they be measu­red by your meat-wand, they must all lye under the censure of false and idolatrous Churches, who worship God with a false and Idolatrous worship, or else you must confesse your great words of false Church and false constitution to bear no weight, or to be a meere slander.

If you will tel us distinctly what you mean by false Churches you shall see your whole building to fall of it self. For, if you understand therby every Church, that labours under some dis­order, or corruption in gathering and constitution, doctrine, or discipline it is apparently false. If you mean that the better part may not oft ly hid under the worser, the true Church in the corrupt, which may joyne in the use of Gods holy worship by his approbation and with promise of blessing, then the proposition is crosse to the maine current of Scripture. If by a false Church you understand that whose doctrine and wor­ship is corrupt in the very maine grounds and essentials of faith and worship necessary to salvation, your assumption hath no truth in it.

May you therefore be pleased here to take notice of that which you observe, CAN Stay. ag. §. 4. p. 33, 34. as a cleare difference betweene truth and falshood, betweene Christs iustitutions and mens inven­tions. Whatsoever God will have us to doe or not to doe, hee layes downe the same openly, Prov. 8.7 1 Timothy 4.1 precisely, manifestly. All the words of his mouth, are plaine to him that understandeth. The Spirit speaketh expresly, &c. that the truth is simple and plaine. Ethnicks by the light of nature, could sufficiently see into such things, one of them touching this matter saith thus, The truth is simple and plaine, and needs not varietie of wind­laces. Another of them hath these words, That phrase or form of speaking hath truth in it, Cyp. Epist. ad Pom­cont. Epist. Stepha. It commeth of too much presumption and frowardnesse, that a man had ra­ther defend his owne, though it be false and nought, than yeeld to ano­thers deeds and words. Resist not truth to maintain your cre­dit, God will sure­ly revenge it, Bilson differing, part 1, page 69. Contigit saepe ut idem pastor sit vero pastor, & non sit vere postor secundum vocationē ligitimam; non vere pastor, scundum ad­ministrationem, ope­rationemque ipsius. Hieron. ad Helio­dor. Non omnes Episcopi sunt episcopi: atten­de Petrum, sed Iu­dam considera Grat. 2. q. 7. c. Non omnes. Ecclesia aliquandt visibiiis est, non tantum cum de­fectibus multis in doctrina, disciplina, sacramentis, & administrandi ratione, sed etiam cum variis impuris misturis: ita ut Ecclesia sit visibilis, cum tamen ecclesia ralis, quaew in omnibus sequituto possimus sit invifibilis. Ames Bellar, enerv. tom. 2, lib. de Eccles. which is common and used of all, having in it nothing craftily devised, neither cloaking some o­ther thing than is professed. Contrariwise when Satan speaketh by his instruments, he speaketh so ambignously, and cloakedly, that one knoweth not how to take it, nor which way to apply it. And so you goe on in many words to the like purpose, which if you will apply to your owne manner of disputing and alledging testimonies, You shall discover your selfe to be the deceiver, who affect ambiguous and equivocall speeches, and seeke by mists, and fogs of strange and unusuall arguments and sentences wrested to a contrary sense, to blinde the eyes, and puzzell the understanding of the simple. For you hide your selfe under the termes of, false [...]ch, false ministery, false Prophets, false worship, flying from [...] latry, taking heed of idols, &c. which you have taken u [...]n a peculiar sense; and running along in that straine, you per­vert the Scriptures, wrong Authors, consound things to be di­stinguished, dispute sophistically: and whiles you boast of cleare proofe, divine precepts, example and practice of fore­fathers, from the first age of the world hitherto, positions hol­den in all Schooles, written in all books, preached every day in Sermons, taught in all Churches, you doe only raise a dust to daisle the eye: for let the matter be looked into, and you have neither precept divine, nor example of godly forefather to justifie your separation. What you teach hath beene ever­more [Page 89]condemned in Schooles, cryed downe in Sermons, dis­allowed in all Churches of the Saints, from the very beginning to this day.

CAN. Stay. Sec. 5. pag. 41, 42. & Sect. 6. pag. 86

To heare Antichr, stian Ministers in their unlawfull assem­blies, is superstition and will-worship. Therefore it is sin to doe it. The first proposition is grounded upon, Levit. 10.1, 2. and the same is without exception. The second proposition is thus proved. 1. From the nature of superstition which is as Zanchie describes it, a taking into the worship of God more than he requires in his worship. 2 According to the Schoolemen, that is superstition, when divine worship is not exhibited, either to the person it should be, Li. 1 de cult. extern. oppos. col. 501, 502 Aq. 2. 2 ae q. 92, art. 1 or not in the way or manner it ought. And this is held to bee a sound truth by all Orthodox Divines. 3 This hearing cannot be free of superstition, in regard men are present at false worship. Jdem sect. 5. pag. 75 Whosoever takes to himselfe a pra­ctice, which is not grounded on Gods word, and is strict therein, hee is just overmuch, and pre­sumeth above that which is written: and this is their ease who heare un­lawfull Ministers for edification. And a little before i [...] the same page. The hearing stood for, is a spirituall eating with Idolaters, and men cannot receive the food without pollution. And page 80, 81. Herein men worship God, b [...]y and in a way and meanes which Idolaters will have instituted. The which presence (as the learned write) is a certaine commu­nication therewith. 4 It is a great superstition to approve, countenance; or give honour to any of the wayes of Anti­christ. They that are sincere christians (saith Bucer) can­not abide any thing that is his, &c. 5 It is vitious and superstitious to symbolize with idolaters. The Scriptures forbid [...]t, and the Saints in all ages have carefully shunned it. 6 Superstition is committed, when more estimation is had of a thing, more dignitie and excellency placed in it; and more regard had to it, than God alloweth, or can stand with his will.

ANSWER.

You rowle the same stone up and downe. Is there any thing here for substance, but what hath beene repeated oft, [Page 90]but not prooved once? You talke of superstition, false wor­ship, idolatry, giving honour to the wayes of Antichrist, and such like great abominations. But if we call for proof of these accusations, you are glad to fly off, and to play least in sight. Superstition, false worship, idolatry is unlawfull, that you can say, and no man will deny it. But that it is false wor­ship, idolatry, or superstition to hold communion in our assemblies in the ordinances of grace, in this if your bare word, will not be received, here is nothing to beare you out.

This reason therefore, that is, for the substance thereof nothing but a new furbishing over of the same broken staffe, might well be passed over in silence. But lest the credulous reader should conceit it is slighted, because it containeth some matter of importance, I will in few words lay open the weaknesse and vanitie thereof. First you translate the School­mans words ( vel cui non debet, vel non eo modo quo debet) very improperly, when divine worship is not exhibited, either to the person it should be, &c. and indeed make his speech ab­surd or senselesse. For it was never imagined to be supersti­tion, not to exhibite divine worship to God, but Atheisme or prophanesse rather. You say, superstition is that which is done supra statutum, when more estimation is had of a thing, more dignitie placed in it than is meet; which is contrary to the not exhibiting of divine honour to God: but this is your common practice. 2. Your reasons to prove it supersti­tion to heare Antichristian Ministers in their false assemblies (as you stile them) are none of the best, If there vvere no more but giving o­bedience to such [...]dinance, as are imposed vvith a ne­cessitie upon us, & that meerely for conscience of the ordinance it is e­nough to infect the actions vvith super­stition. A dispute against Engl. po­pish. part 1. ca. 3. p. 9. Calvin. Instit. l. 4. c. 10. §. 16, 27, 29. Aug. confes. ca. de discyimin [...] ciborū. though all should be granted which you desire, for though it be no particular or­dinance in respect of time or place, yet it followeth not that it is superstition: For if for substance the duty be of God, it may be done without superstition, when it is not in particu­lar commanded. May not the case fall out, that it is free for a man whether he will heare the word at such a time, or follow the duties of his calling? and if hee doe the one or the other, in so doing he is not to be deemed superstitious? To place o­pinion of necessitie, holinesse, or worship, in that which God hath not instituted or sanctified, is superstition. But to do this or that act which is commanded or allowed of God, cannot be called superstition, though in some particular circumstance above mentioned, it be no particular ordinance. You say, [Page 91]whosoever takes to himselfe practice, Chemnit. Exam part. 2. in Sess. 13. can. 10. Calvin de neces. re­form. Eccles. Quum putarentur observatu necessariae esse homi­num leges, corrigi de­buit perniciosus hic error, &c. Ch [...]mier. panstr. tom. 4. de Eus. l. 6, c. 4, sect. 3, 4. Magdeb. praef. 7. cen. It is not lavvfull for civill Magistrates to devise formes of Religion in destru­ction of the truth and so to reconcile truth and errour that they may both bee lulled asleepe. They may not pre­scribe religion, a­lone, they must not engender new arti­cles of faith, they must not strangle the truth vvith er­rour, nor shackle it vvhen it is revealed that they may let loose the bridle of corruption, &c. Matthevv 4. 9 See Par. in loc. Luke 4.7. 2 Chroni. 11.15 1 Cor. 10.20 Rev. 9.20 1 Tim. 4.1 which is not groun­ded upon Gods word, and is strict therein, hee is just over­much, why doe you adde, (and is strict therein) if every act simply not commanded be superstition?

And if by such hearing a man did approve, countenance, or give honour unto any the wayes of Antichrist, or did sim­bolize with Idolaters, yet could not this hearing be condem­ned as will-worship, or superstition, unlesse the breach of e­very commandement be will-worship, or superstition. Men may be superstitious, in the use of Antichristian rites or devi­ces, and so they may in the use of their owne devices, yea of the ordinances of God themselves. But whosoever doth countenance or approve any of the wayes of Antichrist, he is not therein (though hee breake the commandement some o­ther way) superstitious or a wil-worshipper.

3 If superstition be committed when more estimation or regard is had to a thing, than God alloweth, or can stand with his will revealed in his word, beware, lest you convince your selfe superstitious in an high degree. For when you magni­fie your Church order and constitution as an ordinance of that absolute necessitie, as that God cannot lawfully be wor­shipped, in any other societie or assemblie, and that none o­ther Church is true. You place more excellency and dignitie in it, and give more estimation and regard unto it, than God alloweth in his word. I might adde, that in many particulars you advance your owne imaginations, as the necessarie and holy ordinances of God, which if it bee not idolatry, at least is superstition in your language. Observable it is (you say) whereas one Evangelist setting downe the Tempters words to Christ, saith, worship me, another hath it, wor­ship before me, shewing it is all one to worship before the Divell or to worship him. Whereupon you adde, now hee is worshipped when Idols are worshipped, or any false in­stitution is observed, or practice used; which if it was true, I should not feare to charge you as a pernicious idolater, or worshipper of the Divell: But I will not make use of such leaden weapons, CAN. Stay. Sect. 4. page 63. For it is a most notorious and grosse absur­ditie: For if every false institution and practice bee the worship of the Divel, it must necessarily follow, that every er­ror concerning the worship of God, concerning the com­mandements of the first table, is the worship of the Divell, [Page 92]which a Christian should blush to speake, and ab [...]ere to heare.

4 In your esteeme all Churches are false which are not constituted after your manner, and all Ministers Antichristian, who are not called and ordained by that particular congre­gation where they are to administer: and being so taken, I answer. It is neither superstition nor will-worship to heare Antichristian Ministers (in your stile, but indeed the true lawfull approved Ministers of Jesus Christ) in their Assem­blies. To heare or to communicate with them, is not to approve or honour any Antichristian way, or sembolize with idolaters: but to approve maintaine and exercise purely the ordinances of grace, to yeeld obedience to Gods commande­ment, to regard, honour and esteeme what bee alloweth and honoureth, and to worship him, both for matter (and man­ner according to his will. The precepts, promises and insti­tution of God, Ames. Bell. E [...] ­tem. 2. l [...]de [...]cc [...]no­tis. [...] ca­tus ille in quo chri­stus adest, dum de­monstratur ubi sit Christus. Ille autem caetus est ecclesia, christus erim ambu­lat inter 7. candela­b [...], quae sunt 7. ec­ [...]lesie. the approved practice of the Saints, from the beginning of the world unto this day, doth plentifully war­rant this practice to be holy, profitable and necessarie, in re­spect of divine institution. This doctrine hath evermore been professed in all Churches, defended by Orthodox Divines, taught in Sermons, received by the Faithfull, and most plainely confirmed by the Scriptures. But not to repeat so many things spoken already, I proceed to examine what you have to say out of the Nonconformists against our Ministery, in respect of their orders and degrees.

SECTION 6.

CAN. Necess. of Separation, Pag. 37.

IF the calling and office of their bishops be (as the Noncon­formists say it is) of the earth, false, divellish Antichristi­an, &c. than it followes, that the calling and office of the whole Ministery must necessarily be of the same nature, qualities and condition, to wit of the earth false, divellish, and Antichri­stian, &c. which is wholly derived from it, which receives, J say, [Page 93]and takes it life and being of it only, and no where else, For if their Bishops have not a right power in themselves, then can they not transferre it to another, As the law saith, Nemo potest plus juris transferre in ahum, Regul. juris. 79. quam sibi competere dignosca­tur, No man can give more to another, than he hath himselfe. If Corah, Dathan, and Abitam, when they usurped the priesthood and government of the Church, should (by that false power which they assumed) have ordained some of the people unto the Priests office, no doubt all the Israelites which feared God, would have judged their place and standing unlawfull, because they which made them had no commission from God so to doe. The case of their Ministery is just so.

ANSWER.

IF some things of men bee mixed with that which is of God, as the holy Sacraments with humane rites, and hu­mane pompe and glory, with the Ministery that is from above, a prudent Christian must separate one from another, and not cast away what is of God as a nullitie, fruitlesse, un­profitable, defiled, because somewhat humane is annexed to them. Accidentall defects or superfluities, in, or about the Ministery, doe not destroy the nature and substance of the Ministery.

In the office and calling of Bishops, two things are to be considered.

1 The substance of their office and Ministery whereunto they are separated, to wit, to preach the Gospell, dispense the Sacraments and administer the discipline of Jesus Christ; Hieron. in epist. ad Tit. ca. 1. & ad Evag. epist. 2. Bilson chr. part. 2. pag. 318, 319. Calv. tract. de­neces. reform. eccles. Calvin. instit. l. 4, c. 4. sect, 1.2, 4, 15. Zanch. in 4. praete­ptum to [...], 732, 733. Forb. Irenic, l. 2, prop, 7, 8, 9, 10. and this is of God.

2 The superioritie they take or challenge over their bre­thren, which makes not a difference or nullitie in the sub­stance of their ministery; and this is of men. All Ministers of the Gospell are stewards of Jesus Christ, set apart to doe his worke, wherein if any one shall challenge more than of right appertaineth unto him; or doe ought out of pride, parti­alitie, sinister affection, tyrannie or sedition: or receiveth such authoritie to himselfe alone, as belongeth not to his place and office, or is common to many; in that he is blameworthy: but thereupon his Ministery or ministeriall acts done by him, are not made voide and of none effect.

Thus the Church of England, The institution of a Christian man c. of the Sacram. of Orders. Ievvel apol. def. par. 2. c. 3. div. 1, 5 &c. 9. div. 1. in 1 Tim. 3. in 1 Tim. hom. 11 Qu. ex utro (que) Te­stamento ca. 100. at least the prime main­tainers of Religion, against the Papists have taught, That there is little or no difference betwixt a Bishop and a Pres­byter: to which purpose Iewell cites many passages out of the Ancient Fathers; as of Ambrose, there is one Ordina­tion of a Bishop and a Presbyter: Chrys. betwixt a Bishop and a Presbyter there is almost no difference. Aug. what is a Bishop, but the first or chiefe Presbyter. And both Conformists and Non-confor [...]ists agree in this, that ministers rightly qua­lified with gifts, and preaching the doctrine of salvation pure­ly, bee the Ministers of Iesus Christ, whether ordayned by Bishops or the Eldership. Forb. Iren. l. 2. c. 11 prop. Carleton de Eccl. c. 11. p: 283.284. D. Field of the Church lib. 3. c. 39 T. C. repl. 1. p. 82. There being great resemblance be­tween the Pope­dome and Arch­bishop, I meane having regard to the bare functions, without respecting the Doctrine good or bad, which they uphold, there is yet great difference betweene the persons which execute them. P. Lombard l. 4. sen. dist. 24. Capreol. in 4. sent. dist. 2. qu. 1. Episcopatus non est alius distinctus ordo a sacerdotio, Bonavent. in 4 sent. dist. 24. art. 2. qu. 3. Th. Aqui. 3. suppl qu. 40. art. 5. They that hold Bishops by Divine right greater than Presbyters, and that the power of Ordi­nation belongeth unto them, doe yet acknowledge Ordinati­on, given by the Eldership to be true, by the judgement of the Catholike Church. And they that maintaine the equalitie of Bishops and Presbyters by the Word of God, deny not those Ministers to be of God, who teach sound doctrine, and feed the flocke of God committed to their charge, though they re­ceived Ordination from Bishops.

The learned among the Papists themselves freely confesse, that that wherein a Bishop excelleth a Presbyter, is not a di­stinct and higher order or power of order, but a kind of dig­nity or office and employment only. Episcopacy is not ano­ther order distinct from the Priest-hood, saith Capreolus. No Prelate hath more concerning Sacramentall power, or of or­der, than simple Priests. So Armachanus. As concerning Sacerdotall order, Armach. l. 11. Dom. a Soto l. 10. de just. & jure q. 1. art. 2. & de 4. dist. 24, q. 2 art 3 Darand. in 4, sent. dist. 24, qu 5. Staple. relect. contr. 2 qu. 3, art. 3. Bellar. de Cler. l. 1. c 11, s. 14. cusan. concord. l. 2. c. 13. and things that pertaine to order, they are equall. Thus Bellarmine himselfe. Although a Bishop and Presbyter are distinguished, yet as concerning Sacrifice they exercise the same ministery, and therefore they make one or­der and not two. Cusanus goeth further. All Bishops and haply also Presbyters are of equall power in respect of juris­diction, although not of execution: which executive exer­cise is shut up and restrayned by certaine positive Lawes. And Iohannes de Parisijs, de potost. Regal. & Papal. ca. 10. Some [Page 95]say a Presbyter hath the same power in his Parish, that a Bi­shop hath in his Diocesse. From which their confession it will evidently follow that Ministers ordained by Presbyters, to whom the care and government of the Church belongeth are true Ministers. In Alexandria and all Aegypt, the Pres­byters gave Ordi­nation, vvhen a Bi­shop vvas not pre­sent, as Augustine & Ambrose both con­fesse. Ambr: ad Eph. c, 4, August. Quest, Nov, & vet. 4, 101, Concil. Ni­cen, can. 4, Concil. Arelatens. 2. c. 5. Con Affris. can, 16 Bellar. de Eccl. l, 4, c. 8, s. Ex quo. Gra­tian Decr: dist. 23 c. 8, Theodoret hist lib. 5, c. 23. Socrates hist. lib, 4, c. 35, Gr. Johan. Major, in 4 sent: dist, 25, qu. 3 inter oper: Gerson: Paris: 1606 p. 681 Greg: 1, lib. 12, ep. 31. indict 7. Bedal, 1, c, 27. Gratian. 1, par: dist. 93, ca, 24, & dist. 95, can: 5. Gratian: par. 2, c, 9 qu, 2, c. Lugdunens: Calvin: Justit: l, 4 c, 2, s. 11. Chamier panstr: Tom, 2, l, 16 cap. 4, S. 9. Iun: animad: in Bel de cleric. c, 14, not. 2, &c, 3, not. 59, Chamier: Ibid: c. 6, s. 11. Sed Catholici negaut consquentiā, & sciunt posse illa omnia extare in media haeresi, & inter Apostatas: Quod si nostri negari incipient Apostatae, cur Fararius, cur ejus Mecaenas, Jacobus Davius nunc Cardinalis, non renunciarunt Baptismo apud nos (quos ille disputat apostasiam fecisse) recepto: & non jusserunt se denuo ting?? Author. imperfect. oper. in Mat. hom. 49. Omnia haes, quae sunt proprie Christi inberitate, habent & haereses illae inschismate: similiter Ecclesias, similiter & ipsas Scripturas Divi­ras: similiter Episcopos, cateros (que) ordines Clericorum: similiter Eucharistiam, & caetera omnia, &c.

And hereof the grounds and reasons are evident. For on the one side it appeareth, the Ancient Church did not hold her Constitutions to be absolutely essentiall to the calling of a Mi­nister or to the semper esse thereof, as if the omission or non­observation thereof did make them no Ministers. Bishops by the Ancient Constitutions of the Church were to be ordained by three other Bishops neere adjoyning: But instances there be manefest, that the Church hath dispensed with these Canons. Pelagius the first (as Anastasius writeth in vitâ Pelagij) was consecrated of two Bishops only. Iohannes de Perusio, & Bo­mu de Ferentino, & Anareas Presbyter de Ostio, Evagrius Bishop was consecrated of Paulinus onely. Moses refusing to bee ordained of Lucius was created Bishop of them who were banished into the mountaines. The Bishops of France only Dionysius ordained. It is an humane constitution, saith Iohannes Major, that a Bishop should be ordayned of three, invented for solemnity, not as absolutely necessary. Presby­ters or Elders were ordained by the Bishop. The rest of the Presbyters then present laying on their hands. But seeing Bi­shops were greater than Presbyters, rather by the Custome of the Church, than by divine institution, this was not simply re­quired to the essence of ordination; but according to the Cu­stome and Ecclesiasticall Ordinances. The Chorepiscopi also who were nothing but Presbyters, were allowed to ordaine by the leave of the Bishop.

And on the other side, if they bee not lawfull Ministers who receive their Ordination from Bishops, the Churches of God throughout the world, have beene destitute of lawfull Ministers for the space of this foureteene or fifteene hundred [Page 96]yeares, which the Non-conformists will never affirme. As Rome it selfe is a Church, as the Church is opposed to Turkes, and Infidels, and as Heretickes, specially they whose opinions are not in specie (as they say) pernicious, CAN Stay. § 2. pag. 11. are the Church: So in Rome and amongst Heretickes, so much truth of Ministery is found, as the acts they doe are not voyd altogether and of none effect.

The doctrine of the Nicolaitaus (which was, that adulte­ry and fornication were no sinnes, and that men might com­municate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their Idol Tem­ples. Iren. l. 1. c. 27. Epiphan. 1. Tom. 1.) Was not (you say) in the judgment of the Churches at Pergamus & Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be born withal. If Pergamus and Thyatyra, so grievously corrupted were true Churches, The receiving of Ordination from the hands of a Bishop doth not so leaven the Ministery as to make a nullity thereof, or make it unlawfull for others to joyn therewith in the worship of God.

A Bishop ordained per saltum, P. Aureolus in 4. Sent. dist. 24, art. 2 Capreolus dist: 25 art, 2. Cusan. concord: cathol. lib. 1. cap, 4. Membrum suo offi­cio non contentum, sed cupicus prae ripe­re alienum, conturbat corporis ordinem to­tum, &c. sic singulo­rum ornamenta non sunt alijs congrua, sed unumquod (que) requirit sua, & abijcit aliena. Gratian. dist. 89, cap. 1. They that hold the Office of Bishops to be of GOD, do hold, that the Church ceaseth not to be a Church, in which this degree is not to be found. that never had the Ordi­nation of a Presbyter, can neither consecrate and administer the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, nor ordaine a Presbyter, himselfe being none, nor doe any act peculiarly appertaining to Presbyters. Ordination therefore is reserved to the Bishop, not in respect of superiority in degree of ministery above his brethren, for if he be no Presbyter he cannot make Presbyters, but for order sake and to prevent Schism and division, being for substance of the same order and Consecration with them. If one member in the body challenge to it selfe that office which belongeth to many, it breeds some disorder and confusion, but makes not a nullity of that which is done.

Succession in the Apostles Doctrine is an essentiall and un­changeable note of the Church, which wheresoever it is found, doth argue truth of ministery in that society, for the Preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments, to draw men to internall Communion. For that particular Church is the true Church of Christ which retayneth unity with the Ca­tholickes, sc. the unity of the head, the unity of the body, the [Page 97]unity of Doctrine, and unity of the Spirit. Iohan. Major l. 2. hist de gest: Scotor. cap. 2. scribit, Scotos per sa­cerdotes & Monachos sine Episcopis in fide eruditos esse us (que) ad An. Dom. 429. adeo ut Ecclesia scotitae plusquam: 230 annos floruerit abs (que) regimi­ne Episcopali, Nam Religionem Christia­nam suscepit Scotiae An. Dom. 203. ficu [...] consentiunt Historic [...] omnes Ames. Bel enerv. tom 2. de Eccles. Forb: Iren. lib, 2. cap. 11, prop. 10. Bilson perpetuall Church Govern­ment Epistle to the Reader. I have alwayes had before mine eyes, the most of them are Brethren for the truths sake, &c A. W. Ansvver to late popish Articles page 73. Iun animadv. in Bel cont. 5, l. 1. cap. 3. The right and povver of giving Ordination to the Ministers of the Church, belongeth primarily & vvhol­ly to Christ, vvho communicateth the same vvith his Bride the Church. Both the Bride­groome for his part, and the Bride for her part, have delivered this povver of Ordination to the Presbytery jure divino, afterward the Presbytery conferred jure humano this power upon them, who were specially called Bishops, &c. Aerius was called an Heretike in the time of Epiphanius, not for his opinion, but for his separation which he made together with it. For so the Fathers of the first Constantinopolitane Coun­cell, Can. 6. which in the booke of Canons is 169. Haereti­cos autem dicimus eos qui olim ab Ecclesia abdicati sunt, & qui postea a nobis anathemati [...]: praeter hos autem & qui se sanam quidem fidem profiteri [...] subassumunt, se­gregaverunt autem sese & adversus Canonicos nostros Epis­copos congregationem faciunt.

Howsoever therefore the Non-conformists dissent from others touching the Office and calling of Bishops: as it is e­steemed a degree of ministery above Pastors and Ministers of the whole Diocesse, who leave the care of Preaching to particular flockes, unto others, and challenge that as peculiar to themselves which is common to others, or properly belong­eth to many: yet they never denyed the word Preached by them that professe the intire faith, and the Sacraments admi­nistred by them, to be the true effectuall Ordinances of Iesus Christ. And most that approve the calling of Bishops, deny not that there may be a Presbytery, but that a Presbytery is so fit for a Monarchy, being of opinion, that the forme of go­vernment is left to the discretion of every Church. And both sides professe, that there is not any difference betwixt them, which may either deprive them of salvation by the death of CHRIST, or barre them from living brotherly and Christi­anly as members of one and the same Church.

It is a rule, you say. That no man can give more to ano­ther than hee hath himselfe. But this rule of Law is unskil­fully applyed, or else while you dispute against one false mi­nistery you set up another, or destroy the ministery altogether. For the community of the faithfull have not power to preach the Word, or administer the Sacraments, and hee that derives his authority from them, which they have not to give, is no true Minister. If they be false Ministers, who derive their au­thority from them that have it not, then they that derive it from the Church as the Primitive and immediate subject must goe in that number. For the Church hath not that authority, [Page 98]and she cannot give what shee hath not. Bellar. de Sacram. I. 1. ca. 26. Hussilae or­dinationes sacerde­tum a Romano pon­tifice petere consue­verant. Hier. in Dialog. ad­vers. Luciferian. Luciferiani admitte­bant baptisma colla­tum ab hereticis, sed non ordinationem. Bel. ubi supra. Iohan 12. a Leone 8. anti­papa schismatico or­dinatos dicere com­pulit, pater meus ni­hil habuit sibi, nihil mihi dedit. Nic. 1. Ep. 1. Si exe­crabilis uti (que) & non and bilis, sinon audi­bilis inefficax. Euseb. hist. l. 7. c. 2, 3, 4, 8, & H [...]rm. Conf. conf. Behem. art. 12. de Bapt. Grat. par. 2, c, 1. q. 1 c. 30.31, 32, 33 &c 40, 46, 47. Bel. de facr. l. 1, c, 26, & de Eccl. l. 3. c, 9. §. Resp. igitur. Iun. animadv. Contr. 4, l, 3, c, 9. not. 1.1. Greg. Naz. orat. 40 Sint duo annuli, alter aureus, alter serreus Cal. Instit. l. 4. c. 15 s. 16. & Antidot. concil. Trid. ad can. 12. The Classis or Pres­bytery (you will say) hath no authority to ordaine a Minister, which is to administer in another congregation, and hee that derives his authoritie from them that have it not to give, is no true Minister. If the people and guides of the Church both consent, they have no authoritie to call or consecrate an un­learned, covetous, profane, hereticall Minister, and he that de­rives authority from them that have it not to give, is no Mini­ster, and that which is done by him is of no validity, his pray­ers are not heard, the Sacraments administred by him are not seale of the covenants or internall communion with Christ or his faithfull people. A false Church or ministery hath no power to call and ordaine a Minister or to give him power to preach the pardon of sinnes, or dispense the seales of grace; and the authority granted by them that have it not is a meere blanke. These and such like are the proper consequences of this rule misapplyed; All which no fort of Christians ever admitted as sound and true. The Papists are very forward to challenge the reformed Churches as no true Churches, because they have no true Ministers, but such as were ordained by He­retickes or are fallen into heresie. And yet when they have spent their breath they dare not deny, but baptisme admini­stred by Heretickes who hold intyre the forme of Baptisme, is true, and so the Lords Supper and ordination likewise: For the impiety of the Minister cannot pollute the purity of divine mysteries, neither shall they be ineffectuall to the children of God, although dispensed by Iudas the Traytor. Heretickes have not (saith Bellarmine) the remission of sinnes formally; but they have it ministerially, as a servant who hath not one farthing of his owne, may carry many thousands of his Ma­sters to some other man. In things naturall and artificiall the effect is not like to the instrument, but to the principall cause; as heate is the instrument of fire, though it have not the sub­stantiall forme of fire, and the baptisme which is administred, and the word which is preached of wicked men, is not the baptism or word of wicked men, but of Christ. Anatolius was consecrated of Dioscorus, Felix of the Arians. See Gratian: decret. cap. 1. qu. 1. cap. 32.33, 34, 35, 36. 37, 47.

Every Minister of the Gospell derives his authority, gifts and office immediately from Iesus Christ; the Church, people, [Page 99]patron, Presbytery or Bishop are only Stewards to set him in Office, whom the Lord hath designed; Aug. Consess. art. 8. Gratian. dist. 19. can. 8. Cusan. con­cord. Cathol. lib. 1. cap. 5. Ex quo nunc apparet ad sa­lutem membrorum Ecclesiae, fictos in ex­ercitu existentes, ef­fectualiter ministrare Bilson Christian sub j. part 3. p. 102. AARON was cal­led to that office not by Moses, but by God Himselfe, though hee vvere annointed by Mo­ses hands, Heb. 5. Cath. Cons. p. 130. Yates model. of Di­vinity, page 257. Mason: Success. of Bishops, published by authority a [...]. 1614. wherein if any one or all of them shall challenge more than of right appertaineth to them, or doe ought out of partiality seditiously, tyrannical­ly or disorderly, in so doing they deserve blame, but that which is done is not in every respect voyd, and of none effect, as it hath beene shewed at large. The power of ministration is re­ceived from Christ and not derived from men either formal­ly or vertually, for they have it not to give: but the designa­tion of the person, is by m [...]n ministerially or instrumen­tally.

Can. Neces. of Separat. Pag. 38.

The Conformists keepe much better to their grounds than the other doe. For they professe downe right that their mini­stery is from the Church of Rome, so that if the Popish Bishops, Priests and Deacons be good, theirs bee good also, they being from them. Now no doubt these men doe well perceive that their ministery cannot possibly be justi­fied unlesse it bee by this way of dispute. In this respect their judgment and practice is one, and so farre they are to bee commended, and I verily thinke, that if they were sure that the ministery brought into the Land by the Pre­lates from Rome is false and Antichristian, as the Non­conformists affirme it to be, that many of them would not hereafter ever have any spirituall communion with it. Truely it would make a man admire if he should under­standingly compare together the writings of these two com­panies, touching a Church ministery. For in their opini­ous about it, they are as contrary each to other, as light to darkenesse, Christ to Belial, righteousnesse to unrighteous­nesse, notwithstanding though so different in judgement, yea they will communicate together in one ministery; but one of these against knowledge offend surely, let them look well to it. For to him that knoweth to doe good and doth it not, to him it is sinne, that is, his fault is so much the more, and propertionably his condemnation shall be with­out repentance.

ANSWER.

Instead of sound arguments, wee have here your rash and unadvised censure, the one of these (you say) against know­ledge offend surely.

But what evidence can you bring to justifie this condem­natorie sentence? or how can you reconcile your selfe unto your selfe herein? CAN Necess. of se­parat. page 30. August. de civ. Dei lib. 5. c. 17. Nihil est loquacius vanitate, quae non ideo potest quod van tas; quia si volue it, plus etiam clamare potest quam veretas. Here you tell us, the Conformists many of them at least offend not against their Conscience, and for­merlie you expresse your Charitie to the Non-conformists, that although their practice is not strictsie answerable to their pro­fession, and therefore doe give just occasion to the Prelates to insinnate against them hypocriticall ends: yet you for your part are other wise minded than the Bishops in this thing, and doe thinke that they doe of Conscience condemne the state of that Church: but doe not maturely consider the responsive conclusions which follow upon their principles. These were your thoughts then, and what should occasion this sud­den change? And if you will weigh what you have writ­ten, of necessity you must accuse your selfe of grosse inconsi­deratenesse in saying you know not what, and perverting mens words of all sorts, or of sinne against Conscience if you write what you know to be false. Considering how you deale in both your bookes throughout, I scarce know an Au­thor, who hath more need to look home than your selfe.

It is true the Conformists and Non-conformists have writ­ten on both sides one against the other in matters of Church Government and Ceremonies, (and perhaps with bitternesse more than beseemeth) wherein alwayes the forwardest men have not been of the greatest judgment or best moderation: And therefore every thing that is written must not be inter­prered as the judgment of all, or most of either side, but as the private opinion of the pen-man; which falleth out in all con­troversies amongst all sorts. But whatsoever outcry you make of contrarieties, there is no point of that weight and moment, controverted betwixt them, as might justly hinder communi­on together in the Ordinances of Religion. If their conten­tion had broken forth to such an head, they might have beene answered more justly, the one or both sides, to offend of furie, if not against conscience.

The Conformists (you say) keepe much better to their grounds than the other doe, Calfeh. against Mar. cap. 1. pag. 21. b. Somebuild timber, and hey, and stub­ble, yet must vvee not take the hope of Gods mercy from such evill car penters, as lay so rotten a covering upon so sure a buil­ding, whereas o­thervvise, they of­fending in tristes, be sound enough in other matters, and stick to Christ the only substanti­all and true foun­dation. for they consesse down right that their Ministerie is from the Church of Rome. It seemeth, you did neither much care, nor enquire what they professe, else you might have seene, they say and professe in this point as the others doe. The Conformists (I use that word because you are pleased so to speake) maintaine against the Papists, that the first Bishops who laboured reformation in this kingdome, did receive their ordination from Romish Bishops, and had such calling as was to be found in that Church. But doe they only acknowledge so much? was not this evermore received for a truth in the ancient Church, that ordination received from heretikes, not erring in the maine fundamentall truths directly, was true and effectuall? Doe not all reformed Churches which have separated from the abominations of Rome professe that the first reformers amongst them received some ordinary calling in the Church of Rome, which re­mained in that time of the visible Church corrupted? For some of them were Bishops, some Priests and Doctors ap­proved of the Vniversities, and ordinarie Churches: many of them preached, the Gospell and administred the Sacraments before excommunication or persecution raised by the Adver­faries, in that they were sent unto, or set over severall Chur­ches or congregations, in which they ought to execute their office or ministration, therein they received commandement to preach the Gospel. If men that sent them did mix anything else to their calling, they must be obedient to divine institu­tion, not to humane addition. So being after an ordinary man­ner sent of God singularly, they were extraordinarily stirred up of him to promote and set forward his kingdome. Rivet. Cathol. Orthe. tract. 2. q 8. s. 3, Belthaz Lydias no. in disp. Tabari. c. 11. Whit, de ecc. q. 5. c. 6. Bucer. Siquid boni fuit in successione, vo­catione ordinatione Ecclesia, jum cum primos nostros doctores. Deminus excitavit, id totum in illis si fuisse dixeri­mus, quid cantra obycient po [...]lificit? Num exim cedo vel. Judaei, vel Turcae, vel Barbari, ac prophans homines de reformanda Ecclesia prim verba facere, ac non potius viri gravissimi doctissimi que Ecclesia passoris? Thus Luther, Hus Wickliffe and others were called both ordinarilie and extraordinarilie: an ordinary calling they received in a corrupt Church, and extraordinarily they were stirred up to fulfill the Ministerie they had received, according to the commandement of God, and not after the traditions of men.

It is generally received for a truth at this day, that Bap­tisme administred by heretikes, who erre not in the maine fundamentall truths of Baptisme, In the ordination of bishops it is said, Interrogamus te, si o­mnem prudentiam tu­am quantum tua ca­pax est, natura divi­nae scripturae sensibus accommoder evolue­ris, vis ea quae ex divinis scripturis in­telligis, plebem cui or­dinanduses & ver­bis docere & exem­plis Accipe Euange­si [...]? vade & praedi­ca populo tibi com­m [...]sso or deny not the essentiall forme of Baptisme, is true for substance. And if Baptisme be true and must bee reverenced as Gods ordinance deserv­eth, there is some truth of Ministerie amongst them. They that thinke the basest of Rome, will acknowledge the Baptisme administred by Priests and Jesuites to bee true for substance. And if the Baptisme of God may bee re­ceived or derived from their Ministerie, it is no absurditie to affirme, that the first seekers of reformation derived authori­tie from God to preach the Word and administer the Sacra­ments by their Ministerie, or by them, as Stewards used of God to set them in office. The differences which they put betweene Baptisme and the Ministerie are to no purpose at all to the point in hand. For let them disser in what they will, herein they agree, that in what societie soever, the truth of Baptisme is to bee found, therein is some truth of Ministerie to bee found, though marvellous corrupt and polluted.

The calling of the Pope and his adherents is earthly, false, and divellish, as they stand in relation to him. But so is not the calling of every one that was set in office by them in every respect. For some things might bee of men, and some things were of God. For they derived their autho­ritie from God, and not from them, and therefore though the qualitie of the proper calling of Priests and Jesuites bee earthly and carnall, it is not necessarie the calling that others receive by them, but from God, should be of the same nature, qualitie or condition. And though that calling amongst the Papists was whole corrupt, yet not whollie, because that which is instituted by God, Calfeh. art. 4, pag. 105. Chry. This is my sacrifice to preach the Gospell, my svvord is the Go­spell. CAN Neces. of Separ. p. 233. is not made void by the corru­ptions of men, The Ministery of Priests considered in the Masse (if I may so speak) is corrupt and rotten, as they are or­dained to offer sacrifices propitratorie for the quick and dead, it is the ministerie of the papall apostacie and not Christs, but as they are ordained to preach the Gospell and to baptize, so we cannot say their ministerie is not of Christ at all, or that it is a meere nullitie. If you had considered this distinction advisedly you would have beene more sparing in your cen­sure, or at least given some weighty reasons of your affirma­tion. [Page 103]But it is easier to blow away an argument with big words, than to untie the knot in due order. Azor. instit. Moral. l. 2. c. 19. Ames. Bell. enervat. tom. 2. ca. 2. de vo­cal minist. p. 80. Sadeel. de [...]eg [...]. vo­cat. Minist pag. 64. Extraordinaritie dici­tur duobus modis, aut enim de iis intellige­tur qui ita ab ordine vero ac legitime dis­cedunt, ut ordinem ipsum violenr. &c. aut extraordinarium dicitur cum amore so­lito eoque corrupto, i­ta receditur, ut ad verum ordinem qui interruptus fuerat, redeatu: Quod qui­dem primis nestris do­cto thus usa venisse agnoscimus. CAN Stay. sect. 2, p. 51. The papists them­selves teach, In Episcopo haeretico manere potestatem conferendi ordines, quia id facit nomine, institutione & authoritate Chri­sti, ideoque ab haereticis Episcopis ordinatos, & ad Ecclesiam re­deuntes, non iterum ordinari. Aliqui etiam tenent hariticos E­piscopos potestatem quoque jurisdictionis non amittere.

If the Nonconformists hold any thing extraordinarie in the calling of these prime reformers and servants of God, it is not absolutely but in some respect only. And the same is af­firmed by Conformists also. Extraordinariam dicimur quo­rundam ordinariorum Ministrorum vocationem, eo tantum sensu quo Sacerdotes pontificii quaedam ab ipsis Jesuitis dicuntur legitimo jure extraordinario: And a little after, Sic eo nomine tantum vocatur, quia recedit in aliqua parte ab ordine jam depra­vato, ut possit illum restaurare.

Compare therefore what they have written together, and you shall finde nothing which might hinder their communi­on in the worship of God. You say the Scriptures approve not, of rending away from true Churches, for any corruption: I use the word (any) because so long as we acknowledge the Church to be true (whatsoever her sins are) a separation from all communion with it, is utterly unlawfull. But whatsoe­ver the Conformists or Nonconformists have written one a­gainst another in this point of the Ministerie, they never de­nied the nature and essence of a true church to bee found a­mong us, and therefore cannot bee thought to offend against conscience, in that they hold communion together, in that which is good, and of God.

SECT. 7.

CAN Stay ag. Sect. 3. pag. 58.

THe sinfull office of the Teacher becomes his sin who pra­ctiseth will-worship with him. For hereby he enwrap­peth himselfe into the guilt of his office. To heare such a Minicter is to honour, approve, and uphold his office of Mi­nisteris. To yeeld any approbation, liking, or reverence, unto [Page 104]mens institutions in the exercise of religion, is sin. But in hear­ing Antichristian Ministers, d. §. 4. p. 61. there is approbation, liking, and reverence, yeelded unto mens institution in the exercise of religi­on, Mat. 15.9. Ps. 6.4. Col. 2.20, 21. De. 5.9. 1 Cor. 6.17. Hos. 2.16. Exod. 23.13. therefore it is sinne. The Major cannot be denyed, for the Scriptures teach us the very thing. Besides the most judicious Writers affirme it too.

The Minor is as cleare, For first, Jt is not possible that men can come to Antichristian Churches to worship God, but they must by their precence there, shew reverence and honour to the publike falle state and ministerie.

ANSWER.

HEre you come over with the same text of Scripture and the same arguments, whereunto answer hath beene given already. But I must follow you in that path, wherein you are pleased to goe before mee. 1 Will-worship is unlawful, both in the teacher, and them that communicate with him in that worship. But the preaching of the word and administration of the Sacraments in our as­semblies is not will-worship, but the ordinance of Christ. 2 To yeeld any approbation, liking, or reverence unto mens institutions, devised, and to be exercised with opinion of ho­linesse, Babing in Lev. 10 Calv. in loc. Iun. anal. in loc. Piscat. ibid. necessitie, and worship, is sinne. And if this be the meaning of your proposition, we confesse the Scriptures teach this very thing, and judicious learned Divines affirme it. And what use there is of heaping up Authors to prove that which is most willingly assented unto, I cannot tell. The Lord hath laid downe the way and manner of his worship, and hath not left it to any creature to meddle with, but according to his prescription and appointment. CAN Stay, § 5. p. 40. The outward worship of God must be strictly done according to his commandement. A good intention there hath no place, workes devised by mans fancie, have not only no promise of reward for doing of them, but contrariwise great threatnings and maledictions of God. Q. Eliz. Injunct. 3. But all institutions of men in the exercise of reli­gion, such, to wit, as be simply matters of order, or appurte­nances of worship, as time, place, method, phrase of speech, stinted catechismes, formes of blessing and administration of the Sacraments, &c. bee not of that nature, neither doth e­very [Page 105]thing concerning the qualification and exercise of mini­sterie belong to the second Commandement. So that all in­stitutions in generall are not condemned in Scripture, nor disliked by godly and learned men, so the generall given for direction in such cases be observed. 3 We hold it unlawfull outwardly, and but in appearance, to joyne with Idolaters in their Idolatry: Many words in this matter might well bee spared: But wee desire to see your commandement, why for every particular act, that in a large sense is Idolatrous, ad­joyned to the true worship of God, Calfeb. against Mar. art. 10. p. 185, 186. we should forbeare our presence at the worship it selfe, or be said to communicate in the sinne there committed? For then no man might present himselfe with good conscience, at any publike worship of GOD, wherein any thing is done amisse, for matter, or manner, which is in effect to say, hee cannot bee present at any at all. 4 To communicate in the ordinances of God with the Ministers of the Church of England, is not to like, approve or reverence the institutions of men, in the exercises of religion, nor to communicate with the Teacher in his sin, nor in ought else that is amisse. For the worship is of God both for matter and manner. And put case, the Minister bee disorderly chosen, enter not as he ought, be Symoniacall, covetous, froward, corrupt, idle, scandalous, doe the people partake in his sin, in that they make use of his Ministery? No Scripture teacheth any such thing, no reason doth confirm it, noe approved authors ever said it. That which you alledge for proofe, falleth utterly short.

It appertaineth to the vertue of truth, Dav. determ. 7. p. 40. that as a man shew­eth himselfe by externall signes, so he is indeed to be esteem­ed. And such as frequent or repair unto unlawfull assemblies, for the publike worship of God, by their being there, are to be reputed of the same religion, or else dissemblers, as it were to have no care of religion, knowing God, Dovvay annot in 4. King. 5.19. p. 778. but not glorifying him as God. But herein you have misrelated the Doway tran­slators, for their words are, But in a Christian countrey, where all beare the name of Christians, especially where men are at controversie about the true Christian Religion, all that fre­quent or repaire unto the same assemblies, for publike ser­vice of God, are to be reputed of the same religion, or else dis­semblers. Bodily presence at false worship, by which they shew a liking unto it is unlawfull. To eate of meates sacri­ficed [Page 106]unto Idols in the Idoll Temple, Your condemning the worship of God performed in our assemblies as pernicious idolatry vvherein is it a les­ser sinne han the Popes prohibition of publike prayer, and restraint of the Word and Sacra­ments throughout the Realm? you can neither shevv us warrant for it an the Scriptures, nor example of it in the Church of God. You that so teach and censure stand guiltie of great impietie and they that hearken unto your persvva­sions, are partakers of your iniquity in some sort, of the vvrong imaginati­ons of Christians, Aug. in Tract. [...]o 19. saith, Quae omnia idola cordis sunt. T. Caepl. 1. art. 3. pag. 4. is to communicate with Idolaters. These things are evident and freely granted: But the Assemblie met to call upon God, in the mediation of Je­sus Christ alone, to heare the doctrine of salvation, soundly and purely preached, to receive the Sacrament rightly admi­nistred, is not a false idolatrous assemblie: they that repaire unto it, be not Idolatrous [...]false worshippers. If you esteem of them as they shew themselves by out ward signes, you must esteem them to be of the true religion, and the true worship­pers of God according to his will; The ministerie in that assembly to be true, sound and faithfull and of God of sub­stance. In this lieth the point of the controversie, which you are contented to passe by in silence, without any proofe at all.

But if any humane frailtie or infirmitie cleave to the mini­sterie or congregation, in respect of doctrine, manners, lawes, government or order, which concernes not the life and soul, but only the safety of the Church or wellfare of Religion. In these a Christian doth not partake by his presence at the or­dinances, as the Scripture, reason, and the approved practice of the Saints in all ages of the Church do plentifully witnesse. This is the judgement and practice of the Nonconformists, and therefore they professe they praise God for this reforma­tion, so farre forth, as it is agreeable to the Word of God, they are glad the Word of God is preached, that the Sacra­ments are administred; that which is wanting they desire to be added, that which is overmuch cut off. But that a Chri­stian must separate from the Word and Sacrament, by rea­son of some superfluities or defects, is no responsive conclusi­on, that can be gathered soundly from their writings.

CAN Stay. Sect. 5. pag. 66.

In preaching of the truths of the Gospell by a false Minister, an Idolatrous act is performed. For Divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing (howbeit in it selfe good) but as the essentiall parts belonging thereto (whether they are persons or things) are kept and observed. The Church of Rome in Baptisme useth water, and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper gives bread and wine otherwhile too: doth [Page 107]this cleare their administrations of Idolatry? I think all men doe thinke that Vzziah committed an Idolatrous act, 2 Chron. 26.16. when he invaded the Priests office. But what made it so? tooke he unlawfull incense? no. Vsed he strange fire? no. Offered hee prohibited Sacrifice, or upon a wrong Altar, No: Where then lay the fault, the Scripture telleth us, Verse 18. it pertained not to him to burne incense unto the Lord, but to the sons of Aaron. To apply this, if his act were Idolatrous because he wanted a calling, howbeit observed many truths of the law. By the same reason the Church acts of Artichristian Mi­nisters are Idolatrous, yea, and as for the truths which they preach, this cleares their acts no more from Idolatry, than Vzziahs true Incense and the Altar quitted him from trans­gression.

ANSWER.

Your great words are of small force, CAN. Stag. §. 3. p. 56. for should I speake my conscience, (it is your phrase,) They are words with­out weight of reason. For still you presuppose the Ministe­rie of the Church of England to bee false and idolatrous, which is to beg, not to conclude the question. But that be­ing presupposed, let us see how you goe forward. In preach­ing the truth of the Gospell by a false Minister, an Idolatrous act is performed, you say. But doth the Scripture say so? Do you read it in the Law, or in the Prophets, in the Apostles or in the Evangelists? The Scribes and Pharisees were false, Ministers, but it was not an Idolatrous worke in them to expound the Law of Moses, or dispence other Church ordi­nances, at that time commanded. The popish Priests and Bi­shops are false Prophets, but the simple administration of Ba­ptisme by them is not an idolatrous act. The Minister that is prophane, and hateth to be reformed, is a false Minister, and hath nothing to doe to take the covenant of God into his mouth, but the Word preached by a treacherous Judas, proud Diotrephes, covetous Demas, or one that envieth the prospe­ritie of Saints, and peace of Ierusalem, is not an Idolatrous act. If it be Idolatrous in him that performeth it, yet it doth not follow, that it is idolatrous in them that joyne in the or­dinance. Let it bee idolatrous in the priests, who despise knowledge, and live prophanely, put case Elies sons, to offer [Page 108]sacrifice, it is idolatrous likewise for the people to appeare before God in his holy Temple.

That Vzziah committed a grievous offence, when he in­vaded the Priests office, all men thinke. In what respect all men conceive it to be an idolatrous act I cannot say: but all false Ministers do not usurpe the Priests office, as Vzziah: nor all things done by false Prophets, Ex. 30.7, 8. Psal. 141.2. Apoc. 8 3. Moller in Ps. 141.2 Heris. ibid. Deod. Bib [...]. Ital. an­not in Psa. 141.2 & Apoc. 8.3. Ori­in Ios. hom 17. tom 1. Est in coelis all re. Paschal. Rhadbert. in Lam. Ier. l. 2. Biblioth pat tom. 9. pa [...]t 1. Christus altare [...]e­di u [...] esse, hostia & sacrifi [...]ium, pont. fex & sacerdos. Ambr. Enar. in Ps. 118. Greg. Magan Psa 7 paenit. Altare Do­mini Christus. An. Ex of D [...] cen­sure art. 15 p. 19. to be matched with Vzzi­ahs offering incense. For the offering of Incense was typicall, and might be a shadow of Christs intercession, and so the act of Vzziah might be Idolatrous, and in that particular di­rectly crosse to the institution of God. But many Church actions typifie no such thing. Vzziah had no calling to of­fer incense, but some false Ministers may have some calling to administer the things of God, though they be not appro­ved of God. Vzziah could not offer incense in any respect by authoritie from God, but a false Minister in one respect may be called of God, in some other to doe an act ministeriall, that is, by authoritie from God, hee may doe some acts for substance lawfull and effectuall, though the Minister himselfe be not approved. Thus the Nonconformists, upon whose grounds you pretend to build your conclusions, let it be as the censure reporteth, that his words are of a Minister, which cannot preach Doth he doubt whether he be in any respect a a Minister or no, because he saith, if I may so call him? In­deed this manner of speaking declareth that he judgeth him that cannot preach a man unworthy to bee a Minister, but he doth not deny him altogether.

But in your esteeme, all Ministers not called and ordained of that particular Church, whereunto they doe administer, and performing their authoritie by vertue and authoritie de­rived from them, are false Ministers, because all other admini­ster by power usurped and Antichristian, which is with one breath, to blast all the worship and service, which hath beene done unto God in the congregations of his Saints, for this fourteene or fifteene hundred yeares or more.

CAN. Stay. Sec. 5. pag. 76.

It is very true said of one, Lavater. In Iosh. 22, hom. 63. we ought not to conclude of an a­ction that it is good, because it hath in it something which [Page 109]in it selfe is so, and this is true, as in things divine, Omne totum suis par­tibus ordinatur, men­suratur, & determi­natur. so in humane too. For it is a knowne tenent of Philoso­phers, The whole is composed, measured and determined of all the parts.

ANSWER.

It is true, an action is not good, Aqu. 1.2. qu. 8. art. 3. Cameron pral [...]ct. Tom. 2. p. 49. Amb Catharin in the Councell of Trent. l. 2. p. 224. CAN. Stay. Sect. 6 page 85. Rutgers. instit. Metaphys. l. 2. cap. de Bon. Quem­admodum conveni­entia ad rationalem Naturam, [...]ve dicta­men rectae rationis consurgit in actu ho­nesto ex bonitate ob­jecti finis & aliarum circumstantiarum: ita contraria discon­venientia seu defe­ctus in malo culpae consurgit, ex defectu illorum in actione, ita ut si vel minimum contrariū desit, actus exeostatim reddatur culpabilis five pecta­minosus. Dionys. dixit. Bonum est ex integra causa, malum autem ex quolibet defectu. Revet. in Hosea 4.14. p. 152. Iob 14 4. Hag. 2, 12, 13. See Iun. i [...] loe. unlesse all circumstances required to the doing of a good act be observed: but the act good in it-selfe is evill in the doer, if one circumstance bee evill. For every thing that is morally good must be confor­mable to the rule, which, that which is defective in any part required, cannot be. But how shall this bee applyed to the purpose? Is every deficient act forthwith Idolatrous? Or that which is by circumstance unlawfull in the doer, because of his failing, unlawfull to every one that doth communicate with him in the Ordinance, but not in the defect? If a Mi­nister preach Christ of envie, doe they sinne that heare sincere­ly and receive the truth in love? If a man give almes in vaine­glory, doth the poore man sinne, who receives it in humilitie and thanksgiving? An action done in one forme and manner may be sinne, which in another forme and manner is the true worship of God, which may be observed of him that is pre­sent in our Assemblies.

CAN. Ibid.

As Iob saith, who can bring a cleane thing out of an un­cleane? Not one. But the false office is uncleane, as is acknowledged. And this further may bee amplified by that passage of the Prophet, where it is shewed, That holy things are polluted by touching things which are un­cleane.

ANSWER.

That which is uncleane cannot causally, univocallie, and [Page 110]properlie bring forth that which is cleane, but instrumentally it may. A profane Minister may be the instrument of God to convert a sinner from the errour of his way, and indis­pensation of the Sacrament, seale to the worthy receiver the pardon of his sinne, though he himselfe reape no profit or be­nefit thereby. For herein the good that is wrought is not ef­fected by any vertue or power in the Minister, who is the Lords Officer or instrument, but by the power of Gods Spi­rit, and his free grace, who knoweth how to use and blesse evill instruments for his owne purpose. An uncleane Officer or person pollutes the holy things of God to himselfe, but not to others, who use them in faith according to the Lords appointment. Why you should referre us to Iunius annota­tions I see not, unlesse it be to shew us your forwardnesse to quote Authors, which make nothing to your purpose. For all that Iunius observeth is this, That the Iewes being impure and polluted in heart, did receive no sanctitie from the touch of Temple or Altar.

CAN. IBID.

If in preaching the truth no Idolatrous act is performed then it will follow, Ibid. Sect. 11. p. 116 They need not by his vvriting leave their unblessed standing; For so they preach the truths of the Gos­pell, they sinne not. And then vvhat need is there to lay dovvne their false office? I cannot say of this mans Logicke as Aristotle did of Theodorus his mak­ing Epithites, It is his vvhole art. CAN. Stay. p. 27. that a man may remaine a Minister of a false Church all his life time, provided hee onely teach the truths of the Gospell. Our reason is, for in this, if he doe no idolatrous act, then hee sinneth not, and so consequently no just cause of his comming out from among them.

ANSWER.

Ill might you twit your adversarie with his little skill in Logicke, unlesse it was done in policie to hide your own loose­nes in this and the like arguments. For though it be not an Ido­latrous act to preach the truth of the Gospell in a false Church, in other respects it may be sinne to continue a member in that societie, and so also to teach the Gospels Truths, As it may be scandalous and offencive, an appearance of evill. A man may doe that whereunto he is not called, from an evill mind. Also [Page 111]it may bee sinne to continue in a false Church, though a man teach nothing but the truth of the Gospell, because he cannot professe all maine and fundamentall truths, or that border thereupon, nor testifie against all corruptions, grosse, haereticall, reallie Idolatrous, which in Conscience cannot bee tolerated or borne withall without grosse hypocrisie or dissimulation; or hee cannot keep himselfe from the tincture of Idolatrie in practic [...]. As for example, though it be not an Idolatrous act for a Popish Priest to preach the Gospell, or administer the Sa­craments of Baptisme, yet it is not lawfull for a Christian to remaine as a member in that society, because he cannot partake with them in the Ordinances, but he shall commit reall Ido­latrie, or must dissemble many grievous and hatefull abo­minations, which cannot bee dissembled, and shall bee thought to bee of the same Religion with them, or of no Religion, &c.

The multitude of Authors which you quote against hear­ing false Prophets, or continuing in false Churches, doe they not give other reasons why wee ought to separate from them? or doth any one ever lay this down, as a truth or foundation of separation?

In the page following you alledge sixe reasons, which you say may bee applyed against the going with others to an Idol ministerie, Church or worship, &c. But if they bee of any strength, this reason whereof now wee speake, is nought worth, for they are directly crosse. Here you say, If in preach­ing the truth of the Gospell he doe no Idolatrous act he sinneth not, but there, you say, he sinneth many other wayes.

But in all this you take that for granted, which we confi­dently denie, sc. That our Churches, worship, or Ministerie is false and Idolatrous. And therefore taking the proposition in your sense, we say, It is not only lawfull, but necessary to remaine Ministers or members of some Churches, which lye under your censure as false and Idolatrous, but indeed are the true Ministers and Churches of Iesus Christ, graced with his presence, covered with his banner, and beautified with his Or­dinances and tokens of love. And that which you call an unblessed standing, wee make no question but it is appro­ved and blessed of Christ, and therefore regard your reviling the lesse.

Can. Stay. Sect. 5. Pag. 73.

If a man performe an action in a state, and of publike na­ture he is to be considered (in respect of himselfe) as is that state and according to the publike Ordinances: For if the state be false and the officer unlawfull, it is familisme for him to say, I know this state is set up against the Lord Iesus Christ, and every commer here to worship, according to the constitution, is an Idolater, but I will have in my selfe a secret meaning from the rest. Id. page 77. Seeing false Churches and false Ministers are reall Idols, set up by earthly Princes, &c. Whosoever comes and bovves before those Idols cannot escape the just blame of Ido­latry, Id. pag. 73. This is a sure thing, (and let it bee noted) No administration performed in a state, and by a power and constituted office, can be sought, desi­red and received, but in so doing, the doer (ipso facto) really approves of that state, power and office, bee the same lawfull or unlawfull. And as for any mans saying to the contrary, it is sine capite fabula, a vision of his owne Head, and will prove as good as the miracles which Iannes and Iambres wrought, even meanes to harden his owne heart, and some others, as they did Pharaohs, by doing them.

ANSWER.

You say it is an easie thing to Conquer, CAN. Stay. Sect. 5. page 66. Wee are no such Chil­dren as to give the cause so avvay. CAN. Necess. of sep. p. 226. But this vvee cannot give him, though hee begge it shameful­ly, because the thing is othervvise, as their ovvne vvri­tings manifest. CAN. Stay. Sect. 5. page 74. Calfeh. against Mart art. 3. page 86. if begging might procure it, and if confident assertions will carrie a matter, you will not goe without it. But we must not be driven from the Church, the Ordinances and worship of God, communion with Christ and societie of Saints, by an emptie blast of words: No, though you shamefully boast you have proved it by our owne writings. Doe you thinke your bold impudent asseveration, that any mans saying to the contrarie is sine capite fabula, a vision of his owne head, will make us by and by yeeld to your definitive sentence, for which you can produce neither Scripture, nor reason, nor authoritie but your owne, as if your ipse dixit. Pope-like were to be rested in? Wee are no such Children, We are not to be feared with rattles. You must bring better matter than your vaine fictions, and sounder proofe than vaine repetitions of the same things over and over, [Page 113]or else you must expect small credit to bee given unto your words.

They that joyn together in the worship of God, Ambr. in Luk. 6. c. 9. Fides Ecclesiae imprimis quaerenda, in quâ si Christus ha­bitator sit, haud du­biè legenda, &c. sed siqua est Ecclesia quae fidem respuat, nec Apostolicae prae­dicationis fundamen­ta possideat, ne quam labem perfidiae pos [...]it aspergere, deserenda est. Sadeel. de legit. Mi­nist. vocat. p. 6. Aug. Ex. 166. Our heavenly Master gave us vvarning before hand to make the people se­cure touching evill overseers, lest for their sakes the chaire of vvhole­some doctrine should be forsaken And Tract. in Ioh. 46. The Lords fold hath some o­verseers, that bee Children, & some that be hirelings. & ordinances of Religion, they approve the faith protessed in points funda­mentall, the worship performed for the substance, Ordinances administred and the truth of Ministerie for substance, whereby these things are dispensed. For of necessitie, if the doctrine of salvation be restored, the lawful use of the ministery is restored also. Where God is truelie called upon in the Congregation, and the Sacraments rightlie dispensed, there is a true ministe­rie, whereby these offices are rightlie exercised. But the par­ticular Lawes, manner of Government and orders in the Church, the qualifications or qualities of the Minister or Communicants, their disorders, carelesnesse, or other miscar­riage in the administration, he doth not approve reallie or in­terpretatively by his presence at the Ordinances. If the Mi­nisters be carelesse, proud, covetous, superstitious, enemies to true godlinesse, friends to profanenesse; if they aspire after dignitie, love preheminence, prate against the brethren, they that communicate with them in the Ordinances of Religion, doe neither in so doing countenance them in sinne, nor ap­prove their doi [...]gs. If the Communicants be ignorant, earth­lie minded, disobedient, prophane, scandalous, they that communicate with them in the true worship of God, and therein hold externall societie, because they have not libertie to depart themselves, nor power to cast the others out, they are not defiled with their sinne, nor partakers in their transgressi­on. And the same may be said of orders and rites established by the constitution of men presence at the ordinance doth not enwrape a Christian within the guilt thereof, nor was it ever the pub [...]lke intention of the state, that all present should ap­prove every particular institution or order. It sufficeth if they approve the faith professed, and worship performed, which are of God.

It is true, that by words, works, example, silence, men may become guiltie of others sins, and that some kind of dissimu­lation is a denying of Christ. But it is true withall, that presence at Gods Ordinances is no dissimulation, nor partici­pation in the sinnes of others, by word, example, silence or o­ther waies. If a man doe one thing and pretend another, and hope to save himselfe, by his secret meaning, you may rebuke [Page 114]his hypocrisie as the cause requireth: But we say, in reparing to the Ordinances of God, our heart and actions goe toge­ther, and both are allowed and approved of God.

And here consider, whether you doe not directly confute your selfe by the Engine of your owne acknowledgment, as you phrase it.

For here you say, CAN. Stay. Sect. 6. p. 78. no administration performed in a state and by power and constituted office can be sought, desired and received. And in your Margin, There is a maine difference betweene a mans bare presence in a constituted state, as being there unawares, unwillinglie or by compulsion, and presence there, Jd. page 75. of purpose to partake of the administrations. And a little before you argue thus, whosoever takes to himselfe a practice, which is not grounded on Gods Word, and therein is strict, he is just overmuch. Id. page 74. & 122 And many times you inculcate, that you are to bee understood of hearing in a Church way, and of Church officers. Now if you deale plainely herein, let the indif­ferent judge whether you doe not more than insinuate, that all hearing in our assemblies is not absolutelie to be condem­ned, but that wherein a man is strict, that which is sought and desired. And how then can it be esteemed an act of Ido­latrie, or compared to bowing downe before an Image? For the worship of an Image, though occasionally done, and that but once, with what intent or purpose soever, you wil acknow­ledge to bee sin: and if hearing the Word preached in our as­semblies occasionallie be not a sin, you have sinned grievously in matching it with Idolatrie of the most hainous kind, and abused both Scripture and learned Authors to countenance your impietie.

SECTION 8.

CAN. STAY against. Sect. 5. Pag. 74. 75.

If to heare in a false Church, bee any lawfull ordinary meanes of edification, which Christ the onely Teacher of his Church hath appointed, then it is set downe by the [Page 115]Apostle in Eph. 4 11, 12, 13. The reason is, because Paul there mentioneth all ministeriall meanes for the per­fect and compleat building of the Church, from the first to the last. And if Christ, who in those last dayes speakes evidently by his Gospell and Spirit, Id. Sect. 12. p. 117 had judg­ed it fit, that his children should goe unto false Chur­ches, hee would certainely have made knowne the same unto them.

ANSWER.

The Apostle in the place alledged describes what officers Christ hath given to; and doth approve in his Church, for the ministerie of the word and dispensation of the heavenly my­steries, The Papists alledg this Text of the Apostle to prove that in the Church there hath ever bin a visible succession of Pastors or Tea­chers. See Rhem: annot. in Eph. 4 13 And the Ansvver vvhich is returned to them by our Di­vines vvill serve in this case. See Fulk ansvver to the Rhem Ibid. Car [...]w. Ibid. Cameron Myroth. in Eph. 4.11. Non sequitur tamen inde Pastores istos fuisse ejusmodi qui oves conduxerint in ea pas cua quibus cicuta & aconitum nascatur, satis est ut duxerint in ea pascua, qui­bus etsi insit virus, tamen in est unde oves pascantur. and intimateth also how they should be qualified and behave themselves in the execution of their Office. But the Apostle saith not, that the Church hath, or shall evermore in­joy such officers, both for substance of their office, qualification of gifts and manner of dispensation, as are there commended: Nor yet that the Church is onely to heare such as be rightly qualified, and doe faithfully execute their office.

It derogates nothing from the glory of Christs wisdome and faithfulnesse in providing for the full and perfect instru­ction of the Church, that such Pastors be sometimes wanting and cannot bee had: for he never promised to provide other­wise for them in all ages of the Church, but told them of the scarcitie which might come before, and in wisdome saw i [...]to be most for his owne glory. Christ never laid this charge up­on the faithfull to separate from those teachers, which preach­ed truely the doctrine of salvation, if any exception could bee taken against their calling qualification, manner of life or ex­ecution of their office. The Pastors of the Church should be wise, vigilant, holy, examples to the flock both in doctrine and conversation, not seeking their owne but, that which is Jesus Christs; And after they be chosen, they should execute their office with al diligence: But if they be carelesse, covetous, pom­pous, intangling themselves in things of this world, scanda­lous, yet if they preach Christ, and be not, or cannot be remo­ved, the faithfull are bound to heare them. The Primitive Bishops and Martyrs, were neither Pastors nor Doctors accor­ding [Page 116]to every circumstance, which your will require in a Pa­stor or Teacher, but the faithfull in those times held communi­on with, and heard them as they preached Christ and him crucified, and that by the commandement and approbation of Christ Himselfe, what was of God, they were obliged to submit unto, wisely distinguishing it from that which is an­nexed of man.

In the Officers of the Church, two things are to bee consi­dered.

1. The substance of their calling, which is to seed the flock of God.

2. Their qualification for this office, their care in executi­on, and other accessories which may be added of man. If for substance of office their calling be of God, wee are bound to hold communion with them, though in the qualification, exe­cution and other adhering circumstances, some things bee a­misse, which it is not in our power to redresse. This our Sa­viour Christ hath expressely taught and made knowne unto u [...], both by his Doctrine and example, as hath beene shewed already.

Hereunto this one thing may be added, that many Pastors and teachers in the Church of England be called, qualified and doe carry themselves in their charges and places according to the direction of IESVS CHRIST the chiefe shepheard of his sheepe, and other for substance of Ministery are Pastors and Teachers.

CAN Stay Sect. 6. pag 79.

If to heare Antichristian Ministers bee to serve God in and by an Ordinance; If in preaching the truths of the Gos­pel in a false Church no Idolatry bee done, then may a man vvorship God in a vvay of his ovvne devising blamelesse. Id. §. 5. page 77. way or institution devised by Ido­laters and with Idolaters, then it is unlawfull. But the first is true, Therefore the second. The proposition is undeniable by the Treatisers owne confession (you should have said the assumption, for if the Treatisers words prove ought, they must be applyed thereunto. As for the proposition they speake not to it at all. But forward­nesse here and in many other places hath made you for­get your tearmes of Art) He that heares the Ministers [Page 117]of the Bishops sending, and of the Parishes sent to, he heares (in the sense of the Scripturs) false Prophets. Id page 81. Such as hearken to Antichrists Mini­sters do therein ap­prove of Anti­christs unlavvfull povver over the false Church and the Divels donati­on, or his putting of that povver in­to his eldest son [...] h [...]nd, Id. §. 6. p. 84. But it is not lawfull to heare false Prophets. The Major is proved clear­ly in defenc [...] of our twelfth objection. The Minor is certaine by these reasons. 1. The hearing of false Prophets is for­bidden in the word of God, &c.

ANSWER.

You busie your selfe to weave the Spiders web, which is good for little, long in weaving, but soone swept downe. Our Ministers be not Antichristian Ministers, nor false Pro­phets, (in the Scriptures sense) because they preach the whole counsell of God in all points necessary to salvation, and right­ly dispense the seales of the Covenant, by authoritie derived from Jesus Christ, the Lord and King o [...] his Church, the great Shepheard of his Sheep. At least they are set apart to this office, which was never deemed Antichristian in the Church of Christ.

But if we take these words (Antichristian Ministers, and false Prophets, in your sense, for you use them in a peculiar di­alect) then it is not only lawfull but necessary to heare such as you call Antichristian Ministers. For it is commanded in the word, and acceptable service unto God, the meanes to build up the Church: It is to hold communion with God, to reverence his name, to lay hold upon Christ and lodge him in our bosome: It sheweth that a man is one of Christs sheep, because hee heareth his voice, and a member of his sheepfold, the servant of the most high God: it manifesteth love and zeale to God, and is ordinarily blessed to the soul and conscience of the dutifull hearer. And in that which you alledge to the contrary, you misalledge Scripture, speak evill of the truth, revile the heritage of the Lord, and grievously wound your owne conscience.

The religion professed, and worship performed in our as­semblies is true, not only in respect of the object, but of na­ture, use and end, and whatsoever circumstances are neces­sarilie required to lawfull worship. And the false Prophets mentioned in Scripture are of one sort, yours of an other, e­ven the true Ministers of Jesus Christ.

But let us turne over to the twelvth objection, to heare the cleare proofe of that which here you affirme, for thither you send us. CAN Stay §. 12. p. 116, 117.

The Treatiser (as you call him) propounding this objection of yours, that the Scriptures of the old and new Testament, warne Gods people of false prophets, which the Ministers of that Church are, having an unlawfull calling, maketh answer, 1 By denying that the Scriptures warn men simply not to hear false Prophets, i.e. any false prophet whatsoever. And then pro­pounds a distinction of fals Prophets; that some fals Prophets were in the Church of God, and these might be heard, as they had place in the Church, till they were orderly repressed, or at least discovered; others were not in the Church, but simply without, and these were not to be heard. This is the plaine and direct answer of the Treatiser, as every man may per­ceive, that is not grosly ignorant, or wilfully blind. But see how you jest and dally with it unconscionably when you had nothing to answer. 1. You say he peremptorily denyeth the whole objection, and so consequently affirmes, that all false Pro­phets may be heard. But what new Logicke is this, whereby we may learne to draw such consequences. In former times it hath beene thought reasonable to deny an universall negative or affirmative proposition, when they hold not true in all In­dividuals. No false prophet is to be heard. This proposition may justly be benyed, if any false Prophet may be heard, though all might not. 2 You adde presently and with the same breath, He unsaith what hee said before. But this is a palpable and grosse calumny: For he said not, that all false Prophets might be heard by all, nor denyeth what hee granted at the first, that some may be heard: but plainly implyeth a distin­ction of false Prophets, which I can hardly thinke you did not perceive, though you be pleased so to pervert his words.

If there appeare any deep and inextricable riddle in the words, you may fitly apply to your selfe, what in this very place you report of Marcus Antonius's souldiers, who una­wares fell upon an hearb that greatly distempered their heads. You tell us, Id pag. 116. The Treatiser since he lighted upon his Gourd, he is not like himselfe in his other writings: and I can easily believe it, for in his other writings for separation he is insolent, cen­sorious, scornfull and slighty: In this mild, Christian, and for the most part more substantiall.

As you deale, with your Treatiser, to scorne what you can­not answer, so you doe with others in this very argument, and that much more absurdlie, Master Br. in mainte­nance of the Ministerie of the Church of England, The unreasonab. of separation, p. 2, 3, 4, 7. as it is esta­blished by Law, distinguisheth betweene the substance of the Ministerie, and the execution thereof, the essentiall parts of the Ministery, and some accidentall circumstances adhering unto them by man. For substance (saith he) the present Mini­sterie of our Church assemblies, is the very Ministerie which Christ hath set in his Church, howsoever it may in some par­ticular parts of the execution happily bee defective in some places. The ordinarie ministerie of our Church, is the ordina­rie and perpetuall Ministerie given by Christ to his Church, Id pag. 10. and such as the Princes of the earth are bound by Gods law to protect and maintaine. And if there be any corruption in and about the same which they ought to abolish, it is accidental or personall, Page 8. and not essentiall to destroy the true nature of the ministerie of God. And though it should be granted that our people stand under some kinde of observances and offices, which in their own nature and first originall are in some kind Antichristian, yet such a manner of standing cannot be said to overthrow, though it somewhat staine the Ministery of Christ. Thus is the substance of the answer throughout the booke. CAN Neces. of Separ. p. 216, 217. But how doe you confute or take away this distin­ction, or weaken the force of this answer? That you doe not once assay by Scripture or sound reason, but you cry out of shifts and trifling, and contradictions, beggerly I say [...]s, or ifs, base maintenance of the vilest abominations, and justification of corruptions generally condemned, by the same carnall and corrupt reasons which the Prelates use to doe: That it serves to strengthen the hands of the wicked, Id. pag. 220. grieve the hearts of the righteous, and to discover his owne vile halting, and double dealing. The dumb dogs, caterpillars and idle bellies, never had a better proctor than this man to pleade for their unlawfull standing, For he saith, The Magistrate is bound to protect their Ministerie. But how can wee believe him, seeing the Nonconformists teach otherwise? The rest of your answer is of the same marke, which for shame I will not stand to confute. You say, any one may see by his worke, Page 22 [...]. that he meant not to tye his conscience short, but would make a little bold with it or the present, and so he might fetch over a sure blow upon [Page 120]us, He cared not though with every stroke hee made wounds through the sides of his brethren. But if you be able, bring forth one sentence, wherein the indifferent may see, that hee hath made bold with his conscience, or made the least wound in the side of any brother, wherein he hath contradicted him­selfe or the nonconformists, justified any abomination, plea­ded for any corruption, or spoken one word in defence of dumbe dogs, caterpillars or idle bellies. And if you cannot do this, let the indifferent judge, whether you have not offered violence to your conscience, and made bold to wound your soule, that you might defame the Ministerie of the Gospell, and slander the gifts of God in his servants. This practice is Antichristian, borrowed from the vilest bondslaves of that man of sinne, if not from Satan himselfe. But I will not de­fend the Treatisers opinion, nor trouble my selfe further to examine your answer to Master Br. That which I am to enquire into is, How you prove all the Ministers of the Church of England, in respect of their office and standing, to be false Prophets, or Antichristian, If ought can be found to this purpose, bare words excepted.

CAN Stay sect. 12 pag. 119, 120.

If an unlawfull outward calling make an unlawfull Mini­ster, then it makes a false Prophet. For according to the Scriptures, it is all one thing, only expressed in divers terms, &c. We know no meane betweene true Prophets and false, for whosoever is not a true Prophet is a false Prophet, Id. p. 121. and whosoever is a false Prophet, cannot be a true Prophet of God. He that is of God is a true Prophet, he that is of the Devill is a false Prophet; neither doth the deliverie and ut­terance of some truths, make him a true Prophet, for then the Devill should be a true Prophet, who sometimes speakes the truth, albeit to a sinister end. Balaam was a very witch, a wizard, a false Prophet, a true sorcerer, famous, or ra­ther infamous for his Divellish magick, which he practised among the wicked idolatrous nation. So Attersol and many others so too, as Junius, Simpson, Ferus, Canutus, and be­fore them Origen, Greg. Nazianzene, Basil.

ANSWER.

As for Balaam, whether he were a Witch, Wizard or Ma­gician, it is not materiall to the point in hand. If the Treati­ser did put that instance amisse, it will not follow, that you have truly proved the Ministers of the Church of England to be false Prophets, or soundly confuted what hee answered for himselfe. And if the Treatisers friends be of your dispo­sition, you may soone heare from them that you have answe­red nothing, for you have brought the sayings and opinions of men, but reason out of the Scripture you have alledged none to prove him simply a Witch and a false Prophet. And if the opinions and sayings of men will serve the turne, there bee some that have thought Balaam to be a Prophet of God, Tertul. cont. Marc. lib. 4. Numb 22.19. & 2 [...].7. Iosh. 13.22. Sept. [...], Trem. & Iun, Divinum, id est qui divinat. and that for reasons not to be disregarded. Tertullian amongst others, thought Balaam to be a true Prophet, and such a Pro­phet, as should be numbred among the servants of God, be­cause he professeth that he would aske counsell of God, and that he would speake nothing but what God should say unto him. And he doth not only say so, but indeed he propoundeth those things which he had received of God, and which con­sent with truth and pietie. In Scripture he is called a Divi­ner, which word is sometimes used in a good sense, to note one that doth prophesie true things, or wisely and truly divine things to come. Prov. 16.10. Sept. [...] In. Sagac. Pisc. Divinatio, i.e. quasi divina [...]io, hoc est sogatitas, qualis est divinantium. Mercer. in Prov. 16.10. Isaia. 3.3. Iun. Sagacem Pisc. Heb. Divinatorem, sed hic accipitur in bonam par [...]em. Sept. [...] Conjectorem. Hieron, ariolum. Do­vvay. Southsayer, Moller. [...] est, qu [...]d hoc loco in bonampartem accipitur. Car. in Prov. 16.10. & quidem frequentissimè in Scriptura usu patur in malam partem, pro his qui arti­bus Diabo [...]i [...]is abdita rimantur: sed aliquando etiam, ut Isa 13. & Ezek. 13.6. usurpatur in bonam partem, pro his qui aliquid a [...]cani proponunt, quod legitimè, vel revelatione divinâ, vel solerti mve­stigatione assequuti sunt. Divination or a wise sentence is in the lips of Kings. The Judge and the Prophet, the Diviner, and the old Man.

The Prophets divine for silver: Mic. 3.11. Sept. [...]. Num. 27.7. Sept. [...]. Vulg. precium divinationis. 2 Per. 2.15. Numb 23.27. See Rainold. censur. praelect. 201 B. Hi­eron. alibi nullam illustriorem de advent [...] Domini extare prophetiam dicit sci. quam Bileami. Qui & inter quaestiones Christianorum hanc fuisse docet, cur Balaam tam manifesta de Christo praedixisset. Quem & ipse ad Iob 32. de cognitione Abrahan ifu [...]sse docet. D. Heins. ex [...]rcit. sacr. in Mat. 2. which is spoken of the Pro­phets in Judah. Neverthelesse, seeing he is called a Diviner, as they are said to take divinations in their hands, scil. the [Page 122]wages of iniquitie, and as there is no divination against Israel, that is, magicall incantations cannot availe against Jsrael, whom God doth protect with his presence, I doe rather sub­scribe to them, who conceive that he was a Witch or Wizard, than the prophet of God.

Neither doth the deliverie and utterance of some truth make a true prophet, for the Heathen Witches and Wizards, nay the Divel himselfe hath spoken some truth, that he might the better deceive. But as the possession of all supernaturall truth necessarie to salvation is proper to the Church: so to preach the whole counsell of God unto his people, is the spe­ciall badge of a true Prophet, and the fruit whereby hee is knowne. Marke this well, for (to use your owne phrase) it sheweth all your answer to be coecum insomnium, a vain dream and nothing else. It is the note of a false Prophet to run when God doth not send him. But can it be shewed, that ever Mi­nister did teach the whole counsell of God unto his flocke, [...]er. 14.14. & 23.21 & 27.15. Vnreasonabl. of se­paration. p. 6. Though it be no new thing that the Ministers of Anti­christ should in di­vers things bring the truth with them; yet this is a new thing and ne­ver heard of be­fore, That the Mi­nisters of Anti­christ should teach the whole truth of Iesus Christ for the sub­stance therof, That they should op­pose directly and zealously against the maine and fun­damentall do­ctrines of Anti­christ, &c. [...] 42.19. who was not sent of God? The places cited make it evident, that they whom God did not send, they taught false things in his name: as they run when he sent them not, so they prophe­sied when he spake not unto them. In some cases it is true the Church for a time may bee without Ministers, as when the pastor is taken away by death, or the Church dispersed by persecution, or the people negligent to procure teachers, and the like. But ordinarily the Church is not destitute of true Ministers, nor is there a true ministerie to be found but in the Church. And therefore seeing the societie professing the true faith intirely, and holding the communion of Saints, is the true Church: the Ministers teaching sound doctrine in those societies, and maintaining the unitie of the Spirit, must of necessitie be true Ministers.

But every unlawfull Minister (say you) is a false Prophet, for these two are all one. This is spoken ambiguously and must be distinguished before any direct judgement can bee passed upon it? What then doe you understand by unlawfull Minister? Is he an unlawfull Minister who is not approved of God, designed by Christ, qualified as he ought, chosen or­derly, but out of favour, partialitie, faction or schisme? Or is he an unlawfull Minister, who teacheth corruptly, seeketh not that which was lost, bindeth not up that which was [Page 123]broken, puts not the weake into his bosome, grieveth the godly, strengtheneth the hands of the wicked and walketh prophanely? Is he an unlawfull Minister who being a secret heretike, CAN Necess. of Separation, page. 237. If one bee ordain­ed a Pastor, accor­ding to Christs institution, hee hath certainly lawfull ministerie, howsoever things shall afterward fall out, ye [...] though hee should sing Masse and Mattens as hee speaketh. But hee asketh, if any, that is in his wits will say so? yes, and prove it also: and if hee himselfe had not wanted some wit in this point, he would not thus have confounded one thing so absur [...]ly with another, for as a person may bee a servant or sub­ject truly and fully, and yet doe afterwards the actions of thieves, rebels, traitors: so a man may take a true Ministerie by ordination, and yet in his life and doctrine doe wickedly, and [...]serve justly to be deposed. is chosen and ordained by the communitie where hee is to administer, without due tryall and examination, or being rashly and unadvisedly elected, doth after neglect his dutie altogether, teach perverse things, administer coruptly, sing Masse and Mattens? If none of these be unlawfull Mini­sters in your esteeme, it will be no losse to us, if we grant the proposition: for we may boldly affirme, if you search our Ministerie with a candle and lanthorn, it will bee found true and of God. If you take a false prophet and unlawfull Mini­ster in that strict sense as to exclude all the former, there is not one Minister a member of our Church, that can be a false Pro­phet. If you take all these for unlawfull ministers, then all unlawfull Ministers are not false prophets in your account. Or else, it is lawfull to hold communion with some false pro­phets, which you peremptorily would seeme to deny.

The want of an outward calling, you say, makes a man an unlawfull minister: and so you might say, Ier. 2.8. Ter. de praescript. advers. Haeret. c. 36. Vnde autem extran [...]i & inimici Aposto [...]i [...] haeretici, nisi [...]ex di­versitate doctrinae, quam unusquisque de suo arbitrio, ad­versus Apostolos, aut protulit aut recepit. doth the want of right qualification and conscionable discharge of his duty, for God hath threatned both the one and the other, that they shall be no priests unto him; both the one and the other are idols in phrase of Scripture. But he can not be a minister in a soci­etie of Christians, professing the true and intire faith, and enjoying the blessing of the Sacraments, who is utterly desti­tute of an outward calling. In some Churches the calling is more compleat and exact than in others, and at some times things have beene more orderly handled than at others: but in all Churches there is an outward calling, and effectuall to the truth of the ministerie.

Long since it was objected against the Nonconformists, that they say, the Gospell is not truly preached in England, because there is no lawfull calling to the ministerie, whereun­to they have returned this answer: We do not say, that there [Page 125]is no lawfull, or no ordinarie calling in England: for we doe not deny, but that he may be lawfully called, which is not or­dinarily, as Luther, Melancthon, Zuinglius: and there bee places in England, where the Ministers are called by their parishes, in such sort as the examples of Scripture doe shew to have been done before the Eldership and government of the Church was established. T.C. repl. 1. answ. to the exhor. p. 3. I know not any that saith, the Go­spell is not truly preached in England, and by those that are not of the same judgement, that the admonition to the Parli­ament is of.

CAN. Necess. of Separ. pag. 55.

The Ministery of England, as it is established by law, doth certainly depend upon the Bishops calling wholly, and no man [...] else: and if any in the Land stand otherwise hee cannot pro­perly be said to be a Minister of that Church, but rather is a schismatike from it, Id. p. 57. according to the formall constitution of it, &c. The most free Parish hath but only a liberty to admit of a Minister, before made by the Bishops, so that the people give him not any part, much lesse the substance of his calling, Id. p. 61. but a bare permission only to exercise by vertue of that calling. But none may heare or have spirituall commu­nion with such a Ministerie, Id. p. 213. whose calling doth essentially depend upon the Bishops calling. If the ministerie of the Prelates belong not to any ordinarie assemblies, then is the same Antichristian, and so consequently is that which is de­rived from it. And so much from their own principles wee have formerly proved. Id. p. 213. The Ministerie begotten by the Pre­latesis illegitimate and false. I say those, which take their offi­ces and callings from them, are bastardly Ministers. The Ordination of Priests and Deacons by the Prelates is unlaw­full and Antichristian, and the Ministery is false, so long as they doe retain that false calling, which they tooke first of the Bishops, Id. p. 45. they of the Pope, and he from the Divell Who­soever he be that dealeth with the holy things of God, and worketh upon the consciences of men, See CAN Stay. §. 6. p. 78.79. by vertue of an Anti­christian power, office and calling, him the people of God ought not to receive, or joyne themselves unto. But all the Parsons, Vicars, Parish Priests, stipendaries, &c. that stand [Page 126]over the Church Assemblies in England, deale with the holy things of God, and worke upon mens consciences by vertue of an Antichristian power, office and calling.

ANSWER.

Vpon this one prop lyeth all the weight of your building, whe [...]em you strangely triumph, as if you had stopped the mouth of the Non-conformists for ever, that either they must goe backe from what they have writen against the abuses of the ministery, or confesse they have said and unsaid as occasi­ons have changed, now maintaining that as right, which even now they condemned as false and Antichristian. And this you presse over and over with great confidence and insolen­cie. But this stay I have plucked out of your hands already, and shewed that this exception hath no weight or soundnesse, either from truth or Non-conformists principles.

In answer to this renewed blast of words, I will brief­ly repeate what hath been proved more at large. Bilson Christian subject part 2. page 296. Bishops have their Authority to preach and admi­nister the Sacra­ments, not from the Prince, but from Christ Him­selfe, Goe teach all Nations, &c. onely the Prince giveth him publiked liber­tie, without let o [...] disturbance to doe that which Christ commandeth. Id. p. 309. The charge which the Preachers and Bishops of England have over their flocks proceedeth neither from Prince nor Pope, ner dependeth on the will or word of any earthly creature. Chaloner Credo, second par [...] §. 2. He which conferres Baptisme and Orders as the principall Donor is Christ: the Bishop or Pastor confers them only as his instrument. August. contr. Crescon. l. 4. c 6. per ministros d [...]spares Dei mi [...]us aequ [...] est, quit [...]n [...]illorum sed ejus est. CAN. Stay. §. 3. p. 60. August. in Psalme 10. Christ sent him that betrayed him: Bilson Christ: subject: part. 2. p. 860. The ghostly worke is Gods, the bodily service is the Priests, wherein Iudas the thiefe, Si­mon the Sorcerer, &c. may challenge as James, &c.

First, the Ministers of the Gospell, derive not their au­thority or office from the Bishop, Patron, Presbyterie or peo­ple, but immediately from Iesus Christ, whose servants they are, whose words they preach, whose Sacraments they admi­nister, whose flocke they feed, by whom they are protected, and to whom they must give account. If he be an Antichristian Minister who derives his authoritie from the Classis or Bishop, he is Antichristian likewise who derives it from the communi­tie of the faithfull: for neither the one; nor the other can just­ly challenge that authoritie to themselves.

The Bishop, Colledge Ecclesiasticall or Church, cannot make a Minister formally or vertually, but only as Stewards they put him in office whom Christ the King of Saints and head of the Church hath designed. Wherein, if Pastors or people shall walke disorderly, challenging more than of right belon­geth unto them, or giving up their right through sloth, neg­ligence, ignorance or security: or not attending unto the di­rection of the great Shepheard of the flocke, shall chuse a man unfit or not well qualified, or shall proceed rashly, tumultuous­ly upon misguided affection, in that weightie businesse; though they incurre just blame and reprehension, yet that makes not a nullitie of the Ministery, or of the Ordinances dispensed up­on that Election and Ordination. Your selfe telleth us, and that from the example of the Scribes and Pharisees, That men being lawfully called to the Ministery are to be heard, howso­ever in some qualifications defective. And if disorderly pro­ceeding in election, or want of just and fit qualification in the person elected, do not make the election voyd: how shall the meere want of consent in the people cause a nullity in the mi­nistration? If the carelesse or wilfull neglect of administrati­on and execution of his office cause not a nullitie of the choyce, Vnreasonablenesse of Separ. p. 56. They may acknowledge a further cal­ling than that of the Prelates & yet not therein re­nounce the calling received from them, for the Pre­lates being learn­ed Divines and having approved their gifts, and by words and Let­ter te stimoniall giving liberty to execute the Mini­stery of the Gos­pell, they doe not therby thrust them into a Ministery, but leave them, &c An Examin. of D. [...]. Cen. p. 33. why shall the lacke of the peoples suffrage, which they voluntarily have given away, or otherwise lost, make the ordinances dispensed by him that is chosen to be of none effect?

2. The consent of the people is not required to make a man simply a Minister, neither doth Episcopall Ordination make a man the Minister of this or that people. Therefore it doth not hinder, but a man may bee made Minister by the Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church, and a Minister of this or that people, by the free choice, approbation and con­sent of the faithfull. So in the fourth age of the Church, som­times the people would chuse a Minister, whom they thought meete, and afterward bring him to the Bishop to be admitted by him, as appeareth in the worke of Chrysostome de Sacer: of the chusing of Basil, when Iohn Chrysostome himselfe gave him the slip. Sometimes the Bishop would espie a meete man himselfe, and require the consent of the people to chuse, [...]s it appeareth by Augustine in the election of Eradius to be his successor.

3. The Papists themselves who stand so much upon the ne­cessitie of succession, and ordination by three Bishops, accor­ding [Page 127]to the constitutions of the Church, Bellar. de Eccl. l. 3. c. 10. S. Ad Se­cundum. are yet forced to ac­knowledge, That to know that Pastors are true, there is re­quired neither faith, not lawfull Election, but this onely that they be acknowledged such of the Church, and that they hold the place of Christ de facto, though not de jure. And seeing you pretend to build upon the Non-conformists principles, you may take notice of their profession, which is this. Bap­tisme administred by Popish Priests is good and sufficient, and they are to bee accounted for Ministers, though they bee not good and lawfull Ministers, but usurpers and intruders; The like may be said of such as without ordinary calling, An Examin. of D. W. Cen. art. 11 page 14. counter­feite themselves to be Ministers, and so deceive the Church. In these the secret consent of the Church receiving them for Ministers, untill their wicked usurpation bee espied, may be sufficient to authorize their ministery toward others.

CAN. Necess. of Separ. Page. 234.

If I were not unwilling to give occasion unto the Bishops to in­sult over these men, I could hence manifest much bad dea­ling in them; but I will forbeare for the present, and do referre the Reader to their owne principles, which is, Jd. page 239. CAN. Necess. of Separ. p. 221. Are the Princes of the earth bound by Gods Lawes to maintaine the or­dinary ministery of your Assemblies? then have you from time to time shamfully mocked and abused them, in craving so ear­nestly for their ayde, to have and place thereof. CAN. Stay. Sect. 1. page 50. that all Ecclesiasticall officers ought necessarily to bee made by the free choyce of the Congregation, wherein they are to administer. And, if they can prove all this, I doe not see, but the Controversie may easily be taken up, betweene them and the Bishops, only then they have just cause to begge pardon of them, for their pleas against their Prelacy, and the maine heavy accusations, which they have put up both to Princes and Parliaments against them.

ANSWER.

Here you play the Rhetorician, and make shew what you could doe, but that you will for the present take some com­passion upon the Non-conformists. Whereunto I will returne no other answer, than what you have made to my hand. As for your minsing figure of extenuation, (I could hence ma­nifest) I like it not. For you do here none otherwise than if a [Page 129]Thiefe, when hee hath stript a man out of all that hee hath, would faine yet bee counted mercifull, in that he doth not murder him or binde him, as some others have done. Let any indifferent man read your writings, and he will say, you have not spared your opposites, but shot at them Arrowes of bitter words, and made them as odious and vile as man can do. But blessed is hee that is not offended at the truth for such things. Looke upon your selfe in that which you say against your opposites. You referre your selfe to their Principles, and they make nothing for you, as it hath beene alreadly shew­ed, and you might see your selfe, if you did not shut your eyes.

The reason which here you bring, is but your owne say­ing, said over many times, and indeed bewrayeth more cun­ning, CAN. Stay. §. 2. page 55. than reason, truth or Consciene, and (to speake in your phrase) sophistry than sincerity.

For in plaine termes this is your forme of arguing; If the Episcopall ordination be not a meere nullitie: Vnreasonabl. of Separ. page 54. I know none hav­ing received Ordi­nation from the Prelates, that need deny that they preach partly by vertue of the Mi­nistery which they have taken from them. T. C. repl. 1. Ep. By exercising un­lawfull authority, and by taking unto them partly such things, as be­long by no meanes unto the Church, and partly which are common unto them, with the whole Church, or else with others the Ministers and Governours of the same. if the ministe­rie of the idle, carelesse, prophane, yea of the learned, godly and painefull, be not a meere Idol, then have the Non-con­formists just cause to begge pardon of the Prelates: which hangeth together as a rope of sand. The ministery of the Priests, Scribes and Pharisees was true in time of the Old Te­stament, and in the dayes of our Saviour Christ: had the Pro­phets then and our Saviour just cause to beg pardon, because they accused them of ignorance, pride, tyrannie, contempt of the truth, oppressions, hypocrisie, as blind guides and rave­ning Wolves, who spoyled and made havocke of the flockes.

The Non-conformists never deemed the ministery of the Church of England for the substance and essentiall parts ther­of to be false and Idolatrous, nor craved the aide of the Prince and Parliament, to have it quite, or in part, abolished (you have just cause to begge pardon that slander them in this manner) But they complaine of abuses in the ministery, and these they desire might be reformed; That the ministery might be more pure and incorrupt. They complaine of the usurpa­tion of some, who challenge that as peculiar to themselves, which belongeth to their brethren in common; who admit the basest of the people, into the office of the ministerie; doe that by their sole pleasure, which should be done by common [Page 129]Counsell, King Canutus made a Lavv by the Counsell of his sages at Winche­ster. That Bishops be Preachers and Teachers of Gods Law, and carefull followers of good, works. Leg. 26. And that every Christian learne so much, that he can the true faith and the true understanding therof, name­ly, the Lords Pray­er, and the Creed, or else not to have Christian buriall, neither to bee ad­mitted whiles he liveth to the Lords Table, &c. Amb. de dignit, sa­cerdot. ca. 3. Quan­tò prae caeteris gra­dus Episcopalis al­tior est, tanto si per negligenti [...]m dilaba­dur ruina gravior est Magna sublimitas magnam debet habere cautelam; CAN. Stay. S. 12. p. 120: Honor grandis, gran­diori debet solici [...]u­dine circumvallors. and disregard the consent and approbation of the Church, both in Ordinations and excommunications: and if the ministery of the Church of England be true for substance might they not without blame desire and crave the reformati­on of this abuse? they complaine of the pompous Non-resi­dents who feede themselves and regard not the flocke, strive after preferment and heape up livings, but labour not in the word and doctrine, nor look after the welfare of mens soules: they accuse these as the poyson and bane of the Church, or un­faithfull shepheards, who leave the flock to be dispersed and scattered, and yet they will not say, their ministery is false or Idolatrous or a meere nullitie; doe they then shamefullly mocke or abuse the Prince or Parliament, in petitioning, that this grosse corruption might be reformed! They accuse the ig­norant, carelesse, prophane Ministers of neglect of their of­fice, and unworthy any place or standing of honour in the house of GOD: have they cause to aske pardon of this also, if they shall, thinke their ministerie may be effectuall to the faithfull?

A Minister lawfully called (say you) according to Christs institution, is incontinently upon his outward lawfull calling a true Minister, let his practices afterward be good or bad. Put case then the Church should accuse such a Minister, utter­ly neglecting his charge, or inclining to say Masse and Mat­tens, or loose and scandalous in behaviour, as unworthie his place and office, have they just cause to crave pardon of him, be­cause they acknowledged him to be a Minister, but unworthi­ly? Many abuses not to be tolerated may cleave to the Mini­stery, when the ministerie it selfe, is not to be cast off, as alto­gether ineffectuall.

SECTION 9. CAN Necess. of Separ. pag. 27.28.

The Learned generally affirme, Rhem. anno [...]. in I [...]. 10. anno. 1. and in 1. Cor. 10. Sect. 22. that it is unlawfull to com­municate in a false ministery. Par. Com. in Matth. 7.15 All those without doubt are to bee taken for de­ceivers, who take upon them the office of teaching, with­out [Page 130]a true calling and a little after he saith. That so much being discouered [...] Christian must [...] hid [...]are against them, Dow. in a Reg. 5. v. 19. and Psal. 15. p. 56. Admon. 1. to the Parliament p. 27. T. C. reply, 1. pag. 83.155. CAN. Stay. p. 5.62, 63, 71, 113, 118, 119, &c. and flye from them as from Wolves. Muscul [...] in Matth. 7.15. saith the like Cope in Prov. 10.20. speaketh as much, and giveth this reason for it, because they destroy both bodies and soules of a [...] many as e [...]t her be [...]eeve or reverence them. Zanch in Phil. 3.2. Ralloc. com. in 1 Thes. 5.11. page 228. Riv. in Psal. 16. page 52.53. Oecolamp. in Isa [...]2. fol. 20. Cal. in Psal. 16. Fen. in Song, 1.6.7. Cornel. a Lapid: Com. in Iohn Ep. 2. page 505. saith, False Ministers are favoured and ap­proved in their unlawfull way, when they are bound [...] Par. in Hosea 13.2. Sedul. in 2 Reg. 5. M [...]ty loc. com [...]p. 119 Virels Grounds, in lib. 2. p. 103. Zanch in [...]rac. 3. p. 534.

ANSWER.

Blaming your Treatiser that he comes so naked into the field, CAN Stay. Sect. 12. p. 119. you say, I never saw in my life an error held by a man of Learning, that hath lesse brought to countenance it than this. For whereas others doe commonly quote Scriptures (albeit mis-applyed) and alledge for themselves the judgements of other men, Hieron. in Psalm 5. Omn [...] qui ma [...]è in­tillig it. Scripturas, in via Dei corruit. He goeth not this way to worke. And better it is to goe plainely and simply to worke in the defence of his cause, than to wrest Scripture, mis-alledge Authors, and abuse a show of Learning to seduce and beguile the simple. But you have made choyse of the more common, though the most sinfull course. You pretend Scriptures, but handle them a­misse: Quote Authors, but chop and change their words, force them to speake, what they never meant; and when all is done, they will bee found to make nothing for, but direct against you. Ambr. Intus in a­nimo perdant, modo victores abscedant. CAN. Necess. of Separ. p. 227. Tertul. de Virgi. veland: If Christ w [...]re ever & afore all, the truth is as ancie [...] and everl­sting. You make use of Logicall Maximes and Theo­logicall Principles, but your mistakes are grosse and palpable in the application of them. Some men (you say) in mat­ters of controversie care not though they lose the peace of Conscience, so they may gaine their supposed victory. And if you have not offered violence to your Conscience in those writings, you have not advisedly considered what you have done.

To make this manifest in some particulars not formerly mentioned; It is an infallible Ma [...]ime you say, (as Doctor [Page 131] Ʋsher and others observe out of Tertulli [...]n.) Whatsoever is first, that is truest, and what comes after, is adulterate. CAN. Stay. sect. 2. p. 14. Ʋsher. de Christ. Eceles. suc­cess. & stat. c. 1. p. 19 Field of the Ch. lib. 2. c. 5. page 49. CAN. Stay. sect. 2. p. 11. For with reverence to the phrase; From the beginning it was not so. Basil. ep. 79. Non est aequum ut quae apud ipsos obtinuit consuetudo, pro lege & canone habeatur rectae doct. inae, Hen­ry Answ. first ans. p. 31. I grant your Church is ancient, but I deny it to be most ancient: see­ing then the most ancient (by your own grant) is most true, &c. CAN. Stay. sect. 4. p. 27. T. C. repl. 1. p. 79. D. T. W. The Do­ctors of the Synod. 5.6. Warres are judged by their causes and not by their consequences Bilson Christian subject part. 3. page 201. The first in any kind or sort of things, is truest and best, so Field. This is spoken of the prime, first, originall being of each thing, which is a sure proofe of goodnesse and perfection. For all defects found in things are swarvings, declinings, and depar­tures, from their originall and first estate. For truth is before false-hood, and good before evill, and habite before privation. But you miserably apply that Rule to the first judgment of the separated Church in London, concerning the hearing of the Word preached, in our English Assemblies, as if it must bee truest, because it was first, and their after judgement adulte­rate, because it followed.

You distinguish not betwixt the effect and the event; which I will not say was done ignorantly or unadvisedly. ‘To rea­son from the effect of things (you say) is unsound, and un­concludable by the Scriptures. This is, as if a man would say, the Midwives which lyed to Pharoah, did much good to the Israelites, &c. And then you goe forward to pro­duce testimonies, that things are to be esteemed by their cau­ses, and not by the event, and that things are not true, because usefull.’

But your Pistoler argueth from the effect, not from the event, from the proper effect, not the effect by accident, as you might easily perceive, but that you tooke liberty to de­ride what you could not answer. Thus he argueth, The Do­ctrine taught in the Church of England is the sound and true doctrine of salvation, profitable to beget faith, and to build men forward unto life eternall (not by accident, but of it selfe) and is ordinarily blessed of God to that end and purpose: Therefore it is not unlawfull to heare the word preached in their assemblies. What you talke of Caines murder, Iudas his Treachery, the good that comes by Schismes and Heresies, is only to please your selfe with by-matters: for the argument is drawne from the proper effect, in respect of meanes institu­ted, appointed and blessed of God.

This Canon is true, if truly applyed, and rightly limited, CAN. Stay. sect. 4. p. 20. and sect. 10. p. 111. parium par ratio est, & contrariorum eadem est ratio. But as you apply it, no good Logician would acknowledge it. For though the word which doth ordinarily beget men unto God, ought to bee heard, yet wee cannot conclude on the contrary. [Page 132]the word which doth not ordinarily beget is not to bee heard. For the word is but a morall cause or instrument of faith and repentance, whereby the Spirit worketh not necessarily, but at pleasure. If therefore the Spirit worke by the word as his in­strument, it is of God and wee are bound to heare it: But if God worke not by it, effectually to saving conversion, it is of him notwithstanding: So this affirmative is true, sinne deser­ [...]eth death: but this negative will not follow on the contra­ry, good works deserve life. For of justice death is due to the sinner as his wages, but eternall life is the gift of grace. The Papists argue thus. Disgrace done to an Image tendeth to dis­honour God; and therefore by the Rule of Contraries; Ho­nour done to an Image, tendeth to the honour of GOD. Their inference and yours turne both upon the same hinges.

And I might truly say unto you in your owne words. Ibid. Have you not here shewed your selfe an acute disputer, for to pull downe Bethel you build Babell; to condemne the true hear­ing of Gods Word, you commend Idolatry. Consider ther­fore your owne reasons, and be not so rash and hastie to dis­grace your brethren.

Your obscure translating of Philosophicall Canons, CAN. Stay. Sect. 2. pag 54. CAN. Stay. Sect. 9. pag. 100. I will passe over, as Relata sunt simul natura, which you English thus; Relations in nature are alike: and apply it as strange­ly. Qualis causa, tale causatum, you translate thus; As is the cause, so that which is caused, of the doing of the thing: Idem qua idem semper facit idem; which you render. As is the same so alwayes followes the same effect: whereby you turne principles or Canons at least into riddles, and it is hard to say, whether your interpretation bee more obscure, or misapplication unreasonable (to speake in your language) as vaine as ever man made.

For that which is spoken of causes univocall, necessary and proper at least, that you referre to morall instruments; as if the word preached by wicked instruments might not bee effe­ctuall, or a man could not heare an ungodly Minister preach the Gospell, but he must partake in his sin. CAN. Stay. Sect. pag. Sect. 3.16.17. Id. Sect. 4. pag. 28. & sect. 5. p. 40. sect 1. p. 49. sect. 4. p. 62.63, 67, 72, 73 74, 75.

You are large in proving what is not questioned; as that God must bee served as he hath appointed: That it sufficeth not to intend a good end, but the meanes must bee lawfull: That men must not bow their knees to an Idol, under pretence that they reserve their hearts unto God: That wee must bee [Page 133]earnest and zealous against Idolatry: That the matter of wor­ship must be grounded on the word, Consciences shall never find any sure port to run unto, but only God Calf. p. 22. and that it must be done in a right and lawfull manner, order, form or way: That the law of God is the rule of conscience; That custom must not prescribe against truth; That we must not doe evill that good may come thereof, with other the like, which you know well, your Opposites do believe and maintaine. But that God is not worshipped in our assemblies as he hath appointed: That to heare the word preached in our congregations is pernicious Idolatry: that the means therein be unlawfull, that the mini­sterie is Idolatrous; or the worship vaine; that you prove not, either by Scripture or any learned & approved Author, what­soever you bring in both your bookes to this purpose, besides your own peremptorie actions may be shut up in few words.

The Authors which you quote, are oftimes abused, you mangle their words and make them seeme to speak what they never meant or intended. CAN Stay sect. 3. p. 57. The truths they teach (you say) speaking of the Ministers of the English Church) are from God, but the office which gives them power and charge to speake them is from Antichrist, and a speciall character or marke (as the learned write of the beast). Simon on Rev. pag. 120. Acts & Mon. edit. 5. pag. 588. On Rev. ca. 14.9. Though Priests & Deacons for prea­ching Gods word, ministring the sa­cramets, with pro­vision for the poor bee grounded on Gods law, yet have these sects no man­ner of ground thereof, L. Cobh, Act. and Mon. p. 514 5 [...]5. Thus said Iohn Chaydon a Martyr of Christ: The Bishops licence to preach the Word of God, is the true character of the beast, that is, of Antichrist, The like M. Bale and others: But no word soun­ding that way, is to be found in M. Simons, Since their law of Confirmation was made (saith hee) the Bishop with the Chrisme doth signe the partie in the forehead with the cha­racter of the crosse, And since they made their new office or sacerdotall, thus they make their cate chumine. The child or partie is brought to the Church doores, where the Priest ma­keth a crosse with his thumb on the forehead of the childe, and at the font, the priest maketh a crosse in the right hand of the child, &c. Thus this Author, but to your purpose not one word. M. Bale was so farre from condemning the office of Bishops simply as Antichristian, that hee himselfe was Bi­shop of Osyris in Ireland: And how likely it is then, that he should absolutely condemne a Bishops licence to preach the Gospell of Jesus Christ in the Churches of Christ, as the mark and Character of the beast, let any man judge? What he might condemn, in some respect and consideration in popish bishops, as they stand sworne slaves, to that Antichrist of Rome; that [Page 134]cannot be drawn to the testimonie of Bishops CAN Neces. of separ. p. 25 [...]. who have cast off the authoritie, and renounced the doctrine of Antichrist: And the same may bee answered to the testimonie of John Ch [...]ydon.

You many times repeate, that upon the Nonconformists grounds to returne unto the service in the Church of Eng­land, is to joyne with Idolaters in Idolatry. This no doubt is a vehement accusation, if it can be proved: if it be rashly sur­mised, then it is as pestilent a slander: But ground out of the Nonconformists for such conclusions you have shewed none nor once take notice of that which is alledged to the contra­rie, which you could not but see, if you could have found a­ny exception against it. They doe not deny, but there is a visi­ble Church of God in England, and therefore your saying of them, that they doe almost in plaine and flat tearmes, say that we have not so much as any outward face, and shew of the true Church, argueth that you have almost no love in you, which upon one word once uttered, contrary to the tenour of their booke, T.C. repl. 1. p. 8. Vnreasonab. of se­paration p. 81. and course of their whole life, surmise this of them. Thus a chiefe Nonconformist long agoe. Another in the booke, which you pretend to answer, and in these very pages, He most shamefully and lewdly, as a man void of all common honestie and grace, maketh the Ministers of Lincoln to affirme, that the Prelates are reviled to be great Antichrists and their Ministerie and constitution, to be great troublers of the Church at this day, and that it cannot but be very sinfull and hurtfull to retaine or communicate with them. CAN Stay §. 3. p. 59.69. Rai [...]old. de idelo [...]l. 2. c. 1. §. 2. Bilson. Christ. subj. part. 3. pag. 269. The Divell him­selfe can shew no greater malice, than to pervert that which is well spoken: and to force a lewd senes of his owne or an­other mans words The Divell himselfe would have beene ashamed in this open man­ner to have told such a lie, and therefore he is to be trusted no further, than he is seen. This you passe over in silence; and if the substance of the accusation bee applyed unto your selfe, I know not what apologie you can make.

Christ (saith Rainolds as you quote him) the Pastor of his Church, doth tell us, that he feeds not in Antichristian assem­blies, in the denne of theeves; neither is it his will, that his flock should there rest at noone: But in the pleasant pasture, by the still waters, that is, in the shadowes of the true Chri­stian Churches detesting Idolatry. But D. Rainolds words are, not in caetibus papisticis, speluncis idol [...]latrarum, &c. but in untbraculis orthodoxorumcatuum. Whether this change of Antichristian Assemblies, for popish Assemblies, and true [Page 135]Christian Churches for Orthodox Assemblies, CAN Stay § 3. p 22. D. [...] by words and Let­ters testimoniall 2 [...]4. w [...] made in simplicitie, be judge your selfe. You might easily conjecture, your credulous reader might conceit, our assemblies to be An­tichristian, and not true Churches, but popish Assemblies, and not Orthodox he could not imagine them to be.

You alledge D. Amos saying, It cannot be a true Church that wants order; For by this the parts and members thereof are knit together. But this is not to bee found in the place mentioned: But D. Aines moving the question, whether it be lawfull to stick to that Church, from whom power of re­moving scandals, and purging out the ungodly, is taken away? He answereth. That power, [...]jure & quoad actum primum, cannot be separated from the true Church, because immedi­ately and necessarily it floweth from the essence it selfe, for it is contained in that covenant, whereby the faithfull are ga­thered into a Church. The use of this power cannot be ta­ken away, without the great sin of them that take it away, and the hainous injurie of them from whom it is taken. Neither ought the Church to rest in this, that, she seeth her selfe un­justly oppressed of others. For it belongeth to the office of the Church to defend that libertie, where with she is endow­ed of Christ. But yet if the faithfull contending for their libertie, cannot obtaine their right in that part, nor without grievous inconveniences come to a more free Church, and can keepe themselves from the approbation of evill, and doe also studie as much as in them lieth to supply that want, they sinne not, if they joyne themselves to such a Church, or conti­nue in it; Thus D. Ames, cleane contrary to that which you make him affirme.

Master Baines, as you alledge him, writes. CAN Stay sect. 2. p. 55. Bain. dio­cesan. That no peo­ple can worship God in repairing to any Church or ministe­ry without warrant of the Word. Let the Reader note it, say you. And if it be wisely noted, it makes nothing against par­taking in our assemblies in the ordinances of Grace, be­cause that is warranted, approved; commanded of God in his holy Word. But Master Baines words, are, No people can worship God in repairing to this place and ministerie, with­out warrant of his Word. And he speakes of a Diocesan worship, and ministerie peculiarly appropriated to that place, as it was at Hierusalem: which is nothing to your purpose.

You pretend that you have taken your principles, out of [Page 136]the Nonconformists, ever the chiefest of them, which for lear­ning, CAN Neces. of separ. To the Read. zeale, judgement, holinesse of life, &c. have ever held that cause. But some things brought in their names, is neither the opinion of all, nor of the most, nor of the best learned, nor of many, but either the private opinion of some one, or the conceit of such indeed, as were separated from the com­munion of the Church of England, and not from the abuses only which were in the Church.

You cite Master Penry saying, CAN stay sect. 3. p. 57. M. Penry of the Ministerie of the Church of Engl. p. 37.38. CAN Neces. of separ. p. 16 28.43. Exhortation to the government of Wales. 42, 46, 26 CAN Neces. of separation, Epist. to the Reader. CAN Neces. of separ. p. 252. It is most certaine, Satan rules in the consciences of men, not only by false doctrine, but also by his false power and ordinances; his kingdome of darknesse not only consisteth in the lies, false doctrin and wor­ship, which he hath coined, but also in the false and Antichri­stian ordinances, which he hath invented for the ruling of his idolatrous denne. And therefore the children and Saints of God, ought to avoid both the one and the other. But whatsoever his meaning bee, in that or other passages cited, Master Penry was not a Nonconformist but a Separatist, by your owne confession, and therefore his sayings are not to bee received for the Nonconformists principles.

Master Br. saith, It is lawfull to communicate in that worship where the ceremonies are used: but wee cannot believe him, (say you) for his brethren both affirme and prove the contrary. And here now is a fit place, to write down the words, wherof mention was made in p. 99. partly because the author is a principle Nonconformist, and partly to discover the rashnesse and folly of this inconsiderate man, w ch durst without any reason (more than boldnesse) still justi­fie the very thing, w ch his brethren by many sound arguments, have manifested to be evill and unlawfull: and then you goe on to rehearse the words of the author, of a dispute upon communicating at confused communions, pag. 68.69.

Who that Author is I know not, the booke I have not seen, but by the words which you relate, it appeares hee was no English Nonconformist, neither doth he speake of commu­nicating in our English societies. And if he did, he speakes but his private opinion, and not what is the judgement of Nonconformists. It may be questioned, whether Master Br. booke was not penned and published, before hee could either see or thinke of the other. But whatsoever is to be thought in that particular, M. Br. knew it to bee the common practice [Page 137]and uniforme judgment of all Nonconformists in England, both heretofore, and at that present when he wrote, that it is lawfull, A dispute against Engl. part 1. ca. 9. sect. 3. p, 32. The practice of the greatest part of the reformed Chur­ches in observing holy dayes, cannot commend them in the Church of Scotland. 1 Be­cause shee did spue them out wi [...]h so great detestation, that shee is more bound to abhorre them, than other Churches, which did not the like: & I may wel apply that to them which Caivin saith of the ceremonies of some to Valenti­nus Pacaeus. Ʋt con­cedam faetidas illas sordes quibus purga­tae fuerunt Ecclesiae vestrae, in rebus me­d is posse censeri, ca­rum tamen restitutio erit res media. CAN Stay sect. 5. p 75.76. and in some cases necessarie, to receive the Sacrament with them that kneel in our assemblies. And now consider to whom the im­putation of folly, boldnesse, inconsideratenesse, and (if you will) falshood, is justly to be attributed.

To these particulars I will adde one more, whereby we may learne what we are to expect and looke for at your hands. I think to make known unto thee (thus you write) what hapned about seven years past in England. There was a Gentleman of War­wickshire, by name M. Edward Greswold a man very religious, as many besides my selfe can testifie: Hee and I being bosome friends (or to use his owne common saying, our hearts being as Davids and Ionathans knit together,) upon just cause we both left the parish assemblies. He afterward by the meanes of some craftie men, was perswaded unto hearing againe: upon this he fell into great trouble of Spirit, and could have no feeling assu­rance of any peace with God: remaining thus a while, at length he sent a letter by his servant unto me (the which I have kept a long time by me) in this letter he largely acknowledgeth his of­fence, and among other passages writes thus: Ah you are happy but I by my fall am miserable and wretched, and for the present time, I feele my soule to be no otherwise, than if I were in Hell, &c. ever since I went to their assemblies, I have observed the Lords hand against me. &c. Wherefore I beseech you by the mercies of God, set a day apart for me, and seeke the Lord by fasting and praying, that the water-flood overflow me not, &c. what his refreshings were after this I cannot say, the report is, that to his changing he had sad and sorrowfull dayes: notwith­standing I am confident, that his soule is with Christ in paradise. As I am writing this, I thinke of the words of the Prophet, My flesh trembleth for feare of thee, and I am afraid of thy judge­ments. He that is wise will consider of these things: For as one saith, providing before, is better than repenting afterward. Psal. 119, 120. Hal. Antiq. Rom. lib. 11 It is no marvaile that false Churches, by some are called officina sce­lerum, & carnificina sanctorum, shops of wickednesse, and sham­bles of the Saints: for what can a tender conscience expect in frequenting them, but indeed pricks, racks and tortures? This is your Relation and the use you make thereof.

But if you know not how it fared with this distressed Gen­tleman, thus it was: He shut up himselfe and his children in his house, and would come at no man, nor suffer any man to [Page 138]come at him, lest hee should communicate with them in their sin. Sustenance for himselfe and his Children was brought unto them, and put in at some hole or window, but hee suffered no man to come in to minister unto them, no not when his chil­dren and he himselfe lay sick in great misery. When by order his house was broken open (for the Justices of peace in considerati­on of his case were constrained thereunto) two of his children were found dead in the house, and one had lyen so long unburied, that the body was corrupted and did annoy the roome. The Gentleman himselfe sick on his bed, in wofull plight. His Bi­ble he had gone thorough, and cut out the contents, titles and every thing, but the very Text it selfe. This I have received from credible hands, and it is a matter known through that coun­trie where he lived. And if you marke it wisely, you may see the originall of his sorrow and heavinesse, was not from the hea­ring of the Word in our assemblies, but from your principles, which he had too deeply drunk in, and out of a desire to keepe and observe, made himselfe desolate. It is very likely he thought with himselfe, that if by hearing the doctring of grace hee did communicate with men in their sins, much more was guilt contracted by civill conversings. And if you will try it in right reason, I cannot see how that consequence from your principles can be avoided. Now he desirous to stick to what he had learned, and not to delude himself with vaine distinctions, as too many of the separation doe, fel first into deepe perplexitie, and then at last came unto that desperate conclusion, to shut up himselfe and his children. It is one of your principles, That all humane devices whatsoever in the worship of God are idolatrous: and therefore conceiving the contents of the Chapters, and titles of the bookes to be of men, hee cut them out. And further it is likely he would have gone, if his thoughts had reached further in this matter. It was your great sinne to perswade him to separati­on; and it is your great sinne now to impute the cause of his sor­row, distresse, and anguish, to his hearing the Word in our socie­ties, when as it was the naturall fruit of his rash and sinfull sepa­ration, or of those positions, whereupon his separation was builded, wherein if he was not first instructed, he had been built up by you. Let false Churches be shops of wickednesse, and the shambles of the Saints: In our societies the doctrine of faith and pietie is soundly and purely taught, our adversaries being judges: a thousand thousands can testifie by experience what oule-ravishing comforts, and sweet communion with God may [Page 139]be had therein. When you wrote these things, you had just cause, to take shame and sorrow, that you had brought a poore soule thus into the snare of your seducements: but to take oc­casion thereby to encourage others, harden your selfe in an evill way, and to revile and slander the heritage of the Lord, is an ar­gument of how great perversnesse? You are confident he is with Christ in paradise, and I will not goe about to lessen your confi­dence therein. But if you may bee confident of him, may not we be confident of the Martyrs, who dyed cheerefully for the testimonie of the Lord Jesus, being professed members of our societies? Infallible knowledge of anothers salvation we chal­lenge not, but what you can pronounce confidently of one, we may with equall or greater confidence pronounce of many, who laid downe their lives for the truth of God. And therefore the reason drawne from the practice of the Martyrs, professing a­gainst Antichrist, who lived and dyed members of our Societies, and are received into glory, to prove that our societies are not Antichristian, idolatrous, false worship, is neither absurd nor childish, howsoever you are pleased to spurne and kick at it. Per­use your owne manner of arguing implyed here, CAN Neces. of separat. p. 190: 191. and then speak of your answer to the other: be not rash and partiall.

As for the particular point in hand, the authors alledged by you, speake nothing to your purpose. For men may run when they bee not sent two wayes. First, when they are outwardly called, but not inwardly qualified, as with knowledge, truth, holinesse, or care to doe the duties of their place, and these are lawfull and unlawfull Ministers both: lawfull as Ministers of Gods providence, for the punishment of some, and the good of others, unlawfull as not approved of God in their place and standing. Secondly, when they have no manner of calling, nei­ther set apart by men in authoritie, nor received by the Church, nor qualified as they ought, and these are every way unlawfull. Againe false Prophets are of two sorts. I Such as spring up in the Church, teaching corrupt or perverse things, but either not discovered, or not convicted, or not cast out. These the faith­full must not believe, though they may not forsake or cast off the Societies where such are tolerated. 2. Such as teach damnable doctrines, are not set apart to offices false and idolatrous, and either never were in the societie of the true Church, or bee lawfully convicted, and justly cast out, and with these the faith­full must hold no communion,

This is that which the learned teach, as it hath beene shewed, [Page 140]but it makes nothing at all to your purpose. For you can ne­ver prove from Scripture, reason or Nonconformists princi­ples, either that the ministerie of the Church of England is ab­solutely false, or that any Ministers in the Church be false in the second acceptation of the word.

It is needlesse to proceed further in the examination of par­ticular Authors, CAN Stay sect. 12. p. 118: because you your selfe doe affirme as much. The godly (say you) are admonished to examine doctrines delivered to them in a right way and order. And if they find any by teaching to be a false Prophet, Id. sect. 11. p. 115. they are to depose him, and afterwards not to heare him againe. Againe, it is a question whether the godly in the Jewish Church, having by hearing discovered the Scribes and Pharisees to be strangers, that is, false Prophets, might after­ward heare them againe. Robins. Iustif of se­para. p. 434. The Treatiser was once of minde, that they might not, and gave some reasons for it. But howsoe­ver the case is not easily to be determined, considering the state of that Church and time: yet this is cleare to all men of sound judgement, that in the Churches now under the Gospell, false Prophets may not be suffered: But after due and orderly convi­ction (being found so, and obstinate) they are to bee rejected, and so no outward hearing of them any more. Whence briefly let these things be noted. First, that the effects may be right and lawfull, when the instruments are wrong and unlawfull in themselves, and that a man may lawfully communicate, in the effects of such actions, whose instruments are unlawfull. For the Scribes and Pharisees were unlawfull instruments, by your own confession, T.C. to his sister Anne Stubs. You have indeed e­nough that bitter­ly speake against us: but having no reproofes in their mouths, nor argu­ments to confute their thunderbolts of judgement and condemnation, are like headlesse ar­rowes, not taken out of the Lords quiver, but from their owne sides, &c. but the effects of their ministerie, in which the faithfull might and did lawfully communicate. A false Prophet not discovered, not convicted orderly, before he can be deemed obstinate and cast forth, is an unlawfull instrument, but you will not say, the effects of his Ministerie are unlawfull, and not to be communicated in. I might here adde, that is unskillfull to confound instruments and working causes, or linke them toge­ther, as if there were the same reason of both, seeing all instru­ments are not working causes. Secondly the Ministers of the Church of England, have not duely and orderly beene convin­ced of corruption in doctrine, especially in points fundamen­tall, or that their place and standing is unlawfull: much lesse can they be esteemed obstinate. They were never cast out by the faithfull, and true members of the Church, but approved, main­tained and reverenced by them: All reformed Churches, all [Page 141]the faithfull in the reformed Churches doe acknowledge them the servants of Jesus Christ, approve their standing, reverence their gifts, hold communion with them, professe the same do­ctrine which they maintaine, and praise God for his blessing up­on their labours. And now consider with what uprightnesse and integritie you have alleadged these Authors, against the hearing of the word in our English Assemblies, as if all the Ministers of the Church were false Prophets, convicted, obstinate, and outed the Church.

You tell us peremptorily, CAN. Necess. of Separ. p. 188. If the reformed Churches do justifie the English, therein they condemne greatly their own practice: for in their constitution, ministerie, worship and Government they are as opposite as light and darknes one to the other. Bilson Christ, sub­ject part 4 p. 542. We would have you regard, if not your consciences before God yet your credits before men. Can you find nothing to object, that the Sun doth not shine at Noone­day? Is it not apparant to all the Christian world, that the re­formed Churches doe give unto us the right hand of fellowship, and esteem as us the true Churches of Iesus Christ? In manner of government they differ from us, and they have abolished some rites and Ceremonies, which we retaine as matters indifferent, not as matters of holines, necessity, or worship (this is the profes­sion of our Church) but in doctrine, worship and ministery for the substance thereof, there is a sweete agreement. And the dif­ferences, that are betwixt them and us in other matters, Calv. instit. l. 4. c. 18 Sect. 32. Confess. Helv. c. 27 Angl. Conf. art. 34 Aug. Conf. art. 7. Bohem. Conf. art. 15. Calv Ep. col. 170. [...]p. col. 478. they have so learned to tolerate, as neither to condemne their owne practice, nor to dis-church us: and the like Christian moderation, they receive from us backe againe. The Churches of Christ have not learned to cure every scratch of a pin, with a knife or launce: This art of curing they leave to you, who was never admitted in­to the society of discreete Physitians among them or us. Thirdly consider how uncertaine their wayes are who walke in darknesse. Sometimes the Scribes and Pharisees were to be heard, because they were lawfully called: Sometimes they might not be heard: sometime it is a case not easily determined: and sometimes in the Churches now under the New Testament false Prophets are not to be suffered; as if the passages of Scripture forbidding to heare false Prophets, must be restrained to the times of the Gol­pell. Such staggerings and grosse delusions in others, CAN. Necess. of Separ. p. 39. 48. &c. Bilson Christ. Subject. part. [...]. page 406. would have occasioned out-cries to raise the Countrey.

As for that which you alledge against ignorant, idle, profane Ministers, it is not to the purpose, for that respects not the office it selfe, but the men in the office, who may enter unlawfully, and [Page 142]continue in the execution of their office, The Church of Corinth had then, as al other Churches now have (or should have) both praying & preach­ing annexed and adjoyned to the ministration of the Lords Supper. Both these yet are and ever were the meanes which God ordained to prepare us to be fit guests for that Table. Bishop Iewel his Sermon on Iosh. 6.1, 2, 3. This care must shew it selfe in removing blinde watch-men, which have no knowledge, who are but dumbe dogges, that cannot bark, &c. Nonresidence and absence from their cure is a fault that would be amended. CAN. Necess. of Separ. page 44. 45. Admonit. 1. page 15. 16. Sold. Barw. in the shep-heards of the Lords flocke. Though they be never so able to instruct, and therefore vvorthy to have roomes in the Church, yet if they have not a desire to doe good, &c. CAN. Necess. of Separ. page 216. Another fault no lesse hurtfull to the Church of God is the suffering of pluralities, when one taketh the profit of two or more Benefices, &c. when the Ministery it selfe for substance, and that which is done by Ministers unlaw­fully executing their place, is not to be condemned as a nullitie. It is one thing to justifie an ignorant or idle ministerie, another to make use of that which hee doth to our edification according to the Ordinance of God. They are not approved of God in their ministration, but what they doe administer is effectuall, and God approveth that his people, when they cannot remove them, should make use of their Ministerie. This the Non-conformists hold agreeable to their owne principles, as hath been shewed at large.

Parsons, Vicars, Stipendaries, Parish Priests, Chapleines are but various Titles given to the same kinde of Ministerie in divers persons, which is Evangelicall, instituted of Christ, and to be ex­ercised and maintained in the Church, untill the comming of Christ to judgment. You affirm with great confidence, that the Non-conformists condemn both their names and offices as whol­ly from that Roman Antichrist. These be your words. If you will know (say the Non-conformists) whence all these came, wee can easily answer you, that they came from the Pope, as out of the Trojan horses belly, to the destruction of Gods kingdome. It is cer­taine that their name and office is wholly from that Roman An­tichrist, never instituted either by Christ or his Apostles. For the Church of God never knew them, neither doth any reformed Church in the world know them. These are cloudes without raine, trees without fruit, painted Sepulchers full of dead bones, fatted in all abundance of iniquity, such as seeke not the Lord Iesus, but their owne bellies. Againe touching their Parsons. Vicars, Stipen­daries Chapleines, &c. we have proved from their writings, that these names and offices came wholly from the Divell and Anti­christ: and therefore his pleading for Baal is altogether here unusefull, as to say, All is one kinde of Ministerie, and in this respect they are Parsons, and in that respect Vicars, &c. For as [Page 143]much may a Papist say, of their Parsons, Vicars, &c. We strive not with you for names and words, but about the substance of the Office and Mi­nistery. Non enim in nominibus, sed in rebus, sita est nostra religio, ut rectè mo­net Gregorius Theo­logus in Orat. quam habuit coram 150. Episcopis, in Concil. secundo Constantino. anno. 382. Nihil apud me distat in verbo, quod non di­stat in sensu. Ambr. com. in Luc. lib. 2. Every godly and learned Minister & Pastor of the Church, hath more interest & right in respect of his office &c. for as much as he hath an ordina­ry calling of God and function ap­pointed in Scrip­tures which he ex­erciseth T. C. rep. 1. pag. 21. It is observed by the Learned that this hath been not the least of Satans sleights in convey­ing Popery from step to step and point to point, to keep the speech, & change the sense of the Learned and Ancient Fathers: As the Papists deale with the Fa­thers, so doe you with the Non­conformists. and as true too, If therefore he would have justified those men, he should first have manifested that his Brethren have notoriously s [...]andred their ministery, and so have quite taken away their reasons better, by shewing better, &c. But we have learned to try before we trust. To contend about the bare names and Titles of Parson, is vain and fri­volous; but if we speake of their office and ministery as it is exer­cised by the godly, learned and painefull Ministers in the Church of England, for the substance thereof, it is instituted of Christ, acknowledged by all true Churches in the world, ever since the first plantation of the Christian Church, knowne by all reformed Churches, at this day blessed of God abundantly, and so maintai­ned by the Non-conformists. Against the Name (it may bee) some have taken exception, and against the pride, idlenesse, co­vetousnesse, &c. of some much hath bin written, but that the of­fice it selfe of Parson or Vicar, as they preach the Gospell of Ie­sus Christ, or administer the Sacraments according to the Insti­tution, and watch over the flock of Christ committed to their charge, that this office (I say) for substance should bee condem­ned, as Antic [...]ristian by the Non-conformists, is notoriously false, and the contrary is apparently known unto your selfe. For many of them have publikely maintained the truth of their mini­stery in writing, others have publikely professed, they acknow­ledge the Church and ministery to bee true and of God, and di­verse have exercised the functions, of Vicars and Parsons in our Assemblies. And whether it be probable that so many seeking for reformation would publikely condemne that office, as altogether Antichristian, which they exercised in the Church, let your Con­science judge. In that which you alledge out of the admonition to this purpose, you grossely play the juggler. For it speakes not of the office of Parsons and Vicars at all, much lesse of them all. Their words (let them bee compared with that which you write in their name) are these; wee should be too long to tell your honours of Cathed. Churches, the Dens aforesaid of all lovtering l [...]bbe [...]s, where, M. Deane, M Vice-Deane, M. Canons or Preben­daries the greater, Mr. Pettie Canons, or Canons the lesser, M r. Chancellour of the Church, M. Treasurer otherwise called Iudas the Pursebearer, the chiefe Chaunter, Singing men, speciall fa­vourers of Religion, Squealing Choristers, Organ-Players, Gos­pellers, Pistelers, Pensioners, Readers, Vergerers, &c. live in great, idlenesse, and have their abiding. If you would know whence [Page 144]all these came, we can easily answer you, that they came from the Pope, as out of the Trojan horses belly, to the destruction of Gods kingdome. The Church of God never knew them, neither doth any reformed Church in the world, know them. And birds of the same feather are covetous Patrons of Benefices, Parsons, Vicars, Readers, Parish Priests, Stipendaries, and riding Chap­leins, that under the authoritie of their Masters, spoile their flock, of the foode of their soules: such seeke not the Lord Iesus, but their owne bellies, clouds they are without raine, trees without fruit, painted Sepulchers full of dead bones, fatted in all aboun­dance of iniquitie, and leane Locusts in all feeling, knowledge, and sincerity. Hier. in Sy [...]. Ruf­fin, Perversi homines ad assenti [...]nem dog­matum suorum, sub virorum Sanctorum nomine interserue­runt ea, quae illi nun­quam scripserunt. Virg. An. l. 2. Accipe nunc Dana­um insidias, & cri­mine ab uno disce omnes. CAN. Necess. of repar. p. 48. 49. [...] Can any Legerdemaine be more palpable, than to apply these words to the office of Parsons, and Vicars, and their Ministerie; who painefully, diligently and profitably, spend and have spent their time and strength, in the service of the Lord Ie­sus Christ, and of his Church? If you will so grossely mistake or pervert their writings, how shall wee beleeve you upon your word, when you report that this or that you have heard or seene?

That a man from those principles may infer a lawfull separati­on from all spirituall communion, in the ministerie of our Eng­lish Churches, you think every one (if he understand what a prin­ciple is) will freely grant. And for my part I thinke, every man that understands what the Non-conformists principles are, or what a true conclusion rightly deduced from sound or true princi­ples is, will freely grant, that your separation from the ministery of the Church of England in the Ordinances, of worship, is rash, groundlesse, and sinfull, contrary to right reason, the Non con­formists principles, and the holy Scriptures. And so I commend the worth or weaknesse of what I have written to your conside­ration, intreating if you can, to bring gentle words and weight of matter, as best beseemeth a good cause.

CHAP. II.

THat God must be worshipped according to his owne will and commandement, Bilson Christ. sub­ject. part. 3. p. 302. It is onely Gods office to appoint, how he will be ser­ved. Tertul. de praescrip. advers. haeret. No­bis nihil licet de nostro arbitrio in­dulgere, sed nec eligere quod ali­quis de arbitrio suo induxerit. Aposto­los Domini habe­mus Authores, qui nec ipsi quidquā de suo arbitrio quod inducerunt, elege­runt, sed acceptum à Christo, &c. Can. stay. sec. 3 p. 16 Can. Neces: of Se­parat. p. 72, 73, 74; 75, 76, 77. and that no­thing must goe under the name of worship, which he hath not commanded, or instituted in his Word, is a truth confessed and main­tained by the Church of England, Confor­mists and Non-conformists. So that it is altogether needlesse to spend many words and quote many Authors to prove that which is commonly received, if it be not a wrong to menti­on that as a principle of the Non-conformists, which is the doctrine of the Church, with one consent professed of all the members of the societie: Else where you write (but your speech is over-lavish as most commonly it is) that all sorts and sects of Writers acknowledg this for a truth, that to wor­ship God in any other way or manner, than he hath in his Word prescribed, is unlawfull: And therefore this paines here taken might well have been spared; but the plenty here­in may serve to hide your poverty in that which is to be pro­ved.

Your Reason to prove the necessitie of separation from the Non-conformists Principles, is thus laid downe.

The Lord in Scripture hath laid it as a straight charge upon all the faithfull, to separate themselves from Idolaters, Sect. 1 Can. Neces. of Se­parat. cap. 2. sec. 3. pag. 83, 84. and to be as unlike to them as may be, specially in their religious observations and ceremonies. The second Commandement proves this effectu­ally, for there is absolutely forbidden all participation in any feig­ned service, whether it be to the true God or any other. When Je­roboam had set up a false worship, we reade, Hosea 4.14, 15. Amos 5.5. that the good Pro­phets [Page 2]of that time and after, called the godly Israelites away from it, and bid them in plaine termes not to joyne therewith, but on the contrary to keepe Gods Commandentents, and statutes appointed for his service, without adding any thing to them, or taking any thing from them. And this they must doe, although the King had confirmed his new Religion, by Act of Parliament, or Councell, and therefore no doubt would persecute most gr [...]evously all the refusers thereof, &c.

Thus you goe on in foure leaves or thereabouts to confirme your proposition, Answer. Ibid. pag. 84. to 92. and yet it may be questioned, whether you doe confirme or explaine every particular conteined therein. For if it be demanded what it is to be as unlike to Idolaters as much as may be, and how that is proved to be necessary, either by the commandement of God, or practice of the godly, with­out some fit or due limitation, which is not added, I suppose you will be to seeke, much lesse can it be concluded out of this discourse. But let us heare your Assumption.

But the worship of the English-Church-Service-Booke hath no warrant by Gods word, Can. Neces. p. 85. bid. pag. 91. but it is a devised, false, and idolatrous worship. If we take a strict view of that ministery, worship, and government, which they left at Dan and Bethel, it will appeare evidently, that the same was not more false idolatrous and unlaw­full, Id. pag. 85. than the present ministery, worship and government of the English Assemblyes, is by the Non-conformists affirmed to be. And because none may thinke, that I speake more than can be pro­ved, I will therefore here lay downe an apologie or pretext, which an idolatrous Israelite might frame in the defence of the Kings Religion, Freshsute. lib. 2. pag. 80. taken out of their owne writings: And if D r Ames phrase be tolerable, I will pawne my head, that there is never a Nonconformist this day in the world (let him keep to their grounds) that is able to give more pretty reasons, Course of conform. pag. 161. and colourable shewes, to justifie the Religion of the Church of England.

That all worship, Answer. which hath not warrant from Gods word, is unlawfull; Socrates was wont to say, Every God was to be honou­red as he himselfe had given in com­mandement, Au­gust. de Conf. E­vang. lib. 1. cap. 18. Wherefore as Mi­chah and Ieroboam grievously offen­ded; so whosoever brings into Gods service any thing of his own device, he sinneth deadly. But Images, Cros­ses, and Crucifixes are mens devices, whereby they flat­ter themselves in pleasing God: ther­fore they ought to be abhorred. Calfe. against Martiall. Preface to the rea­der. Bellarm. lib. 3. de justifi c. 8. Non potest aliquid cer­tū esse certitudine fidei, nisi aut imme­diate contineatur in verbo Dei, aut ex verbo Dei per evidentem conse­quentiā deducatur. Park. de pol. Eccl. l. 1. c. 1.4. Separabant se sacerdotes et Le­vitae, qui Deum ti­mebant. 2 Chro. 11.14. Atqui haec se­para [...]o ab Israeli­tis idolatris erar, qu [...] legemcult um (que) Dei per idola Iero­boam fundamenta­liter sustulerunt. Aug. de unit. eccl. c. 16. Let the Do­natists, if they can shew their Church, not in rumors, and speeches of the men of Africa, nor in the coūcels of their Bishops, nor in the discourses of any writer whatsoever, nor in the signes and miracles that may be forged; but in the prescript of the Law, in the predictions of the Prophets, in the verses of the Psalmes, in the voyces of the Shepheard himselfe, &c. that all devised, false, and idolatrous worship is to be abhorred, is confessed and professed by Conformists and Nonconformists. It is a constant received position, That no­thing ought to be tolerated in the Church as necessary unto salvation, or as an article of faith, except it be expresly con­tained in the word of God, or manifestly to be gathered there­from: and that all ceremonies are to be rejected, wherein there is placed opinion of merit, worship, or necessitie to sal­vation. [Page 3]But that the worship tendred to God in the English Congregations, is devised, false, idolatrous, that the Non­conformists never said, nor thought; and whosoever shall rash­ly affirme it, he shall never be able to make proofe thereof, by the word of God. If any rite prescribed in the book of Com­mon-prayer be worship, in the use thereof, the word being ta­ken in a large signification, that is not so in the intention and profession of the Church, nor apprehended to be so in them that conforme unto it, neither doth it defile the worship of God, to them that joyne in the ordinances of grace, notwith­standing the corruption which in their judgement is annexed to it, and practised by some. For notwithstanding such cor­ruption, or abuse, the worship it selfe is that which God hath prescribed, approved, blessed to them that seeke his face a­right, and serve him unfeignedly; whereat he requireth our presence, and wherein he hath promised to sup with us, and we with him.

That the Non-conformists should affirme the worship of God, or ministery in the English Assemblies, to be as false, idolatrous, and unlawfull, as was the worship of Jeroboam at Dan and Bethel, is a most lewd and impudent slander; which the sworne shaveling [...] of Antichrist, whose profession is to lye and slander for the catholique cause, would blush to vent. You know it is contrary to their judgement, practice, proses­sion, and protestations many times renewed. Whether the phrase be tolerable or no, if you will be prodigall to pawne your head in this case, take heed lest you loose it, not in Gods cause, but in your owne. And if you shall be desperate herein, your forwardnesse will move no wise man; for Religion is to be learned from the truth of God, and not from the high ad­ventures of inconsiderate men. The Non-conformists can prove the Religion and worship of the Church of England to be of God, not by petty reasons and colourable shewes (which they leave to them that maintaine a bad cause) but by pregnant evidence from the word of truth; not by similitudes, allegories, and forced interpretations of Scripture (as you dispute against it) but by plaine texts of Scripture, and sound reason deduced therefrom, against which the gates of hell shall never prevaile.

The Author of that Booke, Bilson Christ. sub­ject. part. 4. p. 349. This is the doubt betwixt us, whe­ther we should cō ­tent our selves with such meanes as he hath devised for us, and cōmended un­to us; thereby daily to renew the me­mory of our Re­demption; or else invēt others of our own heads, fit per­haps to provoke us to a naturall and humane affection, but not fit to in­struct ourfaith, &c. He knowing that images though they did intertaine the eyes with some de­light, yet might they snare the souls of many simple & silly persons, and preferring the least seed of sound faith, beholding & ado­ring him in spirit & truth, before all the dumbe shewes and Imagerie that mās wit could fur­nish to win the eye. Can. Neces. of Se­parat. c. 2. p. 78, 79. & 254. according to a prescript form culled out of the blasphemous Mass-book. & 238. That which was takē out of the vile Masse-booke, &c. Sold. [...]a [...]w. T. C. repl. 1. pag. 130. Abridg. p. 89. Adm. 1. p. 9. & 2. Adm. p. 41. Fall of Babyl. [...]9. Altar Damasc. pag. 612, 613. Syons plea. 29. Perth Assemb. 64. Syons plea. 30. pag. 40. [...] intituled, The course of Confor­mitie, sheweth that the Israelites might in generall pretend for Jeroboams calves the same excuses that were made in defence of some corruptions thrust upon the Church of Scotland; but the corruptions he doth not make to be like, nor the preten­ces to be of equall validitie, nor the state of the Church where such corruptions are tollerated, to be the same with the state of the Israelites who worshipped the Calves. Abuses that a­gree in the generall nature of abuse may be coloured, with the same pretences, when they be not of the same weight, quali­tie, or degree; the one may be small, the other hainous. The same distinction may be brought to countenance the vilest he­resie, and a petty errour, if I may so speake. Heresie and Ido­latry are both talkative, and who doubts but corrupt wits can say much in defence of both; shall we thence conclude, that errour or heresie are both one; every abuse is grosse idolatry. The Author, you quote, was not so unadvised: His drift was onely to shew the vanitie of such excuses, and not to match the things pleaded for with Jeroboams Idolatry, as hath been shewed before. But let us see whether you can alledge any co­lourable shew, or petty reason, to prove our worship to be false and idolatrous.

The whole forme of the Church-service is borrowed from the Papists, peiced and patched together without reason or order of edi­fication: yea not onely is the forme of it, taken from the Church of Antichrist, but surely the matter also: For none can deny but it was culled and picked out of that popish dunghill, the portius and vile Masse-booke, full of all abhominations. From three Romish Channels, I say, was it raked together, namely, the Breviarie, out of which the common prayers are taken; out of the Rituall or booke of Rites, the administration of the Sacraments, Buriall, Matri­mony, Visitation of the sick are taken; and out of the Masse-booke, are the Consecration of the Lords Supper, Collects, Gospels, and Epistles. ‘And for this cause it is, that the Papists like so well of the English Masse, (for so King James used to call it) and makes them say, Surely the Romish is the true and right Religion.’ Else the Heretiques in England would never have received so much of it. For some have avouched it to my face (saith the Au­thor of the Curtaine of Church-power) that the service there is [Page 5]nothing to the Masse in the English; others that it wants nothing but the Popes consecration. These things thus retrived, it was al­so thought that popish Kings and Princes would be the lesse offen­ded; what marvaile, seeing the Jesuites themselves are so well pleased with the ceremonies and service, that I heard one of them (God is my witnesse herein) make it his hope, that the maintenance of them against the Puritans, would make England the sooner re­turne to Rome in the rest. Qu [...]vadis. sec. 4. Mine eyes and eares (saith Bishop Hall) can witnesse with what approofe and applause divers of the catholique royall (as they are termed) entertained the new tran­slated Liturgies of our Church. Which is the lesse wonder, seeing Pope Pius the fourth sending Vicentio Parpatia, Cambd. An. 1560. Abbot of Saint Saviours to Queene Elizabeth, offered to confirme the English Liturgie by his Authoritie, if shee would yeeld to him in some o­ther things. Indeed it pleased them so well, Fresh. suit. l. 1, 203. that for the first ele­ven yeares of Queene Elizabeth, Papists came to the English Church and service, as the Lord Cooke sheweth. L. Cooke de jure Regis Eccles. f. 34. Syons plea. 49.91. Others of them affirme the same, namely, their Church-service pleaseth marvei­lous well the Romish Beast, and his ungodly followers. Witnesse the Pacification of the Devonshire-Papists in the time of King Edward the sixth, when as they understood it was no other but the very Masse-booke put into English. Witnesse also the assertion of D r Carrier, a dangerous seducing Papist; The common-prayer-booke (saith he) and the Catechisme conteined in it, hold no point of doctrine expresly contrary to Antiquitie (that is, Consider. pag. 45. sect. 8, 9. as he explai­neth himselfe) the Romish-service, onely hath not enough in it: And for the doctrine of predestination, Sacraments, grace, free­will, and sin, &c. The new Catechismes and Sermons of the Pu­ritan-preachers, run wholly against the common-prayer, and Ca­techisme therein conteined, &c. Motiv. Preface to the Answ. And thereupon he comforteth himselfe upon the hope of the supply of the rest. To this effect speak­eth Bristow and Harding. If these things be right, why not the rest? It shall not be amisse to marke one occurrence in Queene E­lizabeths time, who being interdicted by the Popes Bull, Secre­tary Walsingham tryed a tricke of State-policy, to reverse the same. He caused two of the Popes Intelligencers, at the Popes appointment, to be brought (as it were) in secret into England, to whom he appointed a guide (being a State Intelligencer) who should shew them in Canterbury and London service solemnly sung and said, with all their pomp and procession. Which order the popish Intelligencers seeing, and so much admiring, they wondred that [Page 6]their Master would be so unadvised, as to interdict a Prince or State, whose service and ceremonies so symbolized with his owne: So returning it the Pope, they shewed him his oversight, affirming that they saw no service, ceremonies, or Church-order's in Eng­land, but they might have very well beene performed in Rome: whereupon the Bull was presently called in.

That which you alledge against the English-Service-booke in particular, Answer. you intend against all set-formes of prayer, or stinted Liturgies whatsoever: For the use of them is a false devised, idolatrous, antichristian worship in your account. Thus you know your Brethren of the Separation have disal­lowed all set and stinted formes, Johnson, Ains­worth, Robinson, Greenewood, &c. as humane inventions, for­bidden in the second Commandement, Images, Will-worship, Idol-prayers, False-worship Lip-labour, &c. And you your selfe insist upon this principle of the Nonconformists, as the cause of Separation from the Church of England, that all formes of worship not prescribed of God, are will-worship; which if it maketh against one, holdeth against all prescribed Liturgies. Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 114. Id. pag. 115. Againe, you confesse that every Church is not to be forsaken or left, which hath something in it, by partici­pation, idolatrous: And therefore our Service is not devised worship, because it is taken out of the Masse-booke, as you alledge; but simply, because it is devised; whencesoever it had its originall, if it be devised worship. First therefore we must consider the matter in generall, Oyls [...]hil. speaking of Images brought into the Church, saith, Wee might justly condemn the whole faithlesse, & fond invention. For it was but a will-worship, a naughtie service, having no ground of the Word of God, and onely spring of errour. Calf. Preface to the Reader testifieth. Bilson Christ, sub­ject. part. 2. p. 297. That Princes may prescribe what faith they list, what ser­vice of God they please, what forme of administration of the Sacraments they thinke best, is no part of our thought, or point of our doctrine: & yet that Princes may by their lawes prescribe the right faith to bee prea­ched, the right ser­vice of God in spi­rit and truth to be used, &c. T. C. repl. 1. pag. 8. Park. of the Crosse. par. 1. ca. 4. sect. 7. pag. 177. A. W. ans. to late popish Artic. p. 73. and then try what is al­ledged against our booke of Common-prayer.

These words, Formes of worship, may be taken two wayes. First, to note the substantiall parts, or meanes of worship; and in this sense it is most true, That all formes of worship not prescribed of God, are unlawfull and false worship, be­cause devised by men.

Secondly, To note a bare order, methode, or phrase, wherein divine Service is performed: And in this sense, the Nonconformists never said, That all formes of worship not prescribed are false, or devised worship. For they know, that no forme is determined and prescribed of God precisely in all parts of his worship, and where none is set apart by his Majestie, it is a breach of his Commandement, and devised worship, to place an opinion of worship in the simple order or phrase of speech used in prayer, or administration of holy things.

The Nonconformists condemne not a Liturgie, or stinted forme of prayer, but desire that all things therein might be ordered as doth tend most to edification. Whatsoever excep­tions they have taken against our Booke of Common-prayer, they never disliked the use of it, so far as they judged it sound and good. They doe not condemne it wholly, but finde fault with it, as in some points disagreeing with the word of God. What hath beene their seeking from time to time? a razing of the Communion Booke! No; but a purging and filing of it, after the patterne of that care, which former examples set us. The Booke of Common-prayer, they condemne not as a wic­ked and ungodly Booke, much lesse the Service as false, devi­sed, and idolatrous; but they have and doe use the booke, and professe their readinesse so to doe, onely they desire to be ex­cused in some things, which they judge to be amisse.

In the admonition presented to the Parliament An. 1570. thus they professe. We have at all [...]imes born with that which we have could not amend in this Booke, and have used the same in our Ministry so farre forth as we might, reverencing those times, and those persons, in which, and by whom, it was first authorised.

Though therefore they write, Admonit. 1. pag. 9. Park. of the Crosse. part. 1. ca. 3. sect. 6. pag. 135. that it was taken out of that Popish dunghill, the portius, and vile Masse-booke, that the Papists sucke no little advantage out of our Commumon-Booke, which they terme an English translation out of the Masse-booke, and out of the difficulty, whereby it came in, Parsons of the 3. conversions of En­gland. pag. 2. many Protestants themselves, adjudging that the stable of po­pish superstition was not throughly purged out of it; that Bristow draws the likenesse of our Service-booke to the coun­tenancing of their Masse-booke; Brist. motiv. 34. Rhem. in Iohn 20. sect. 5. And the Rhemists the abso­lution of the sicke prescribed in our Communion-booke, to an approbation of their absolution, Auricular confession, and Sacrament of pennance: Howsoever they disallow the service, as it is practised in visitations, and injoyned in the late Canons, which denieth libertie not onely to omit a ceremo­ny, but also to adde, alter, Park. of the Crosse. par. 2. ca. 5. sect. 11. pag. 19. or omit any one word of the whole Liturgie, when we affirme the words of the Lords prayer, and the forme in Baptisme and the Supper may be altered, with­out fault. Though in these things they take exception against the Booke, and the manner of urging it, yet they never dis­liked the use of it altogether, much lesse condemned it as a [Page 8]false, devised, and idolatrous worship. Their profession and practice from time to time, both before and since the Contro­versies were moved about the Booke, speake plainly in this matter. Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 125. ‘Judge then your selfe, whether it be not a notori­ous calumny in you to write, That our stinted service, de­vised by the Bishop, and translated from the Masse, is affir­med by our owne Writers, to be a false and forged worship, and that it is even so, I appeale to many of your conscien­ces: For why doe you loath to use the same in your Fami­lies, but because you know it is not the incense made by fire from the Altar of the Lord.’ Is it a small thing thus to slander and reproach the servants of Christ, contrary to their writings, professions, and practices, and your owne Consci­ence? And what a vaine surmise is this, that because they for­beare to use it in their houses, therefore in conscience they know it to be strange incense? As if many things might not be forborne, which in themselves are lawfull? In reading the Scriptures a Christian may use one translation, when he doth not condemne others as abhomination. I may presume, in private you make not use of the Lords prayer, and so of some others; and yet you would not, that another should fit in your conscience and judge, that you know it is not the incense made by fire from the Altar of the Lord? Or if you be so pre­sumptuous, sober and well advised men will admit no such conclusions. But here you must remember againe, that no me­thode, order, or phrase of speech in prayer, left undetermi­ned of God, can truely be called or esteemed the incense made by fire. Prayer it selfe, and not the phrase of speech, whether devised by another or by our selves, is resembled thereby.

But the whole forme (you say) of the English-Church-service-Book, is borrowed out of the Masse-Book, picked and culled out of the Dunghill, as the Nonconformists write. You adde, That not onely the forme, but the matter also was taken out of the Masse-Booke.

It is true, the Nonconformists say, it was in great part pick­ed and culled out of the Masse-booke; but it followeth not thence, that either it is, or was esteemed by them a devised or false worship; for many things conteined in the Masse-booke it selfe, are good and holy. A Pearle may be found upon a Dunghill; we cannot more credit the man of sinne, than to say, that every thing in the Masse-booke is devilish and Anti­christian. [Page 9]For then it should be Antichristian to pray unto God, in the mediation of Jesus Christ, to read the Scriptures, to professe many fundamentall divine truths necessary to sal­vation: If any have misliked the Booke, because it hath too much likelihood to the Masse-booke; that hath not beene the judgement of the Nonconformists alone, others have said and written as much, who never yet condemned the use of the Booke, or all things therein conteined. Popery is a scab or leprosie which cleaveth unto the Church: It standeth mostly, in erroneous, faultie, grosse and abhominable superstructions upon the true foundation, whereby they poyson or over­throw the foundation it selfe. But take away the superstructi­ons, and the foundation remaineth: remove the leprosie, and the man is sound. Many supernaturall divine truths of God are mixed in the Popish Synagogue; as pure gold with much drosse or earth, which the refiner is to purge and separate, but not to cast away. Our service was picked and culled out of the Masse-booke, you say; and so it might, and yet be free from [...] and tincture, from all shew and appearance of evill; though the Masse-booke it selfe was fraught with all manner of abhominations. For if Antichrist fit in the Tem­ple of God, and professe himselfe the servant of Jesus Christ, of necessitie, some treasures, riches and jewels of the Church must be gathered into his den, which being collected, purged, and refined, might serve to adorne the chaste spouse of Christ. Neither in so doing doth the Church honour Antichrist, but challenge her owne right. If shee retaine ought that belong­eth to Antichrist, that is her staine and blemish: but the re­covery of that, which Christ, the King and Bridegroome of his Church hath given, as her wealth or ornament, must not be imputed a fault. Christs Religion is not so needie or un­perfect of it selfe, so needy and beggarly, that it must borrow Embring dayes of the Heathen, Altars of the Pope, William Salisbur. in his Battery of the Popes Batter. An. 1550. or Vest­ments of the Jewes: But as the Church is plentifully furni­shed by Christ, and needeth supply from none other; so it is her part to retaine what is freely and graciously vouchsafed of him.

If it be wholly taken out of the Masse-booke, Bilson. Christ. Sub­ject. part. 4. p. 490. Eating and drink­ing are not essenti­all parts of the Sa­crament, but of the Supper they are, or of the Lords insti­tution. For Christs institutiō contein­eth as well the use as the matter or forme that must be used. A Supper is not onely the meat provided, but also the act of eating that which is pro­vided: And so the Lords institution implyeth the use and action, as well as the word and e­lements. Bilson. Christ. sub­ject. part. 4. p. 356. To the Papists ob­jecting that as Ma­gistrates & Parents have part of Gods externall honour, because they pre­sent his person in judging and bles­sing; so many Ima­ges have part of his externall, though not of his internall honour: Answer is truly returned, It is not in your hands to make allowance of Gods honour to whom you list: and againe, God him­selfe hath made a plaine prohibition in this case, that Images shall have no part of his externall honour. The words are as cleare as day light; Thou shalt no bow downe to them. Tho: Beacon, Catech, in his workes in fol. printed at London, Ann. 1562. f. 484. Fox in Osor. lib. 3. pag. 27. The Booke of Common-prayer, before the Communion. Cypr. Ep. 63. ad Caecisi [...]m. Justin. Martyr. in Apol. 2 Iren. lib. 4. cap. 34 & lib. 5. cap. 4. Gratian. Decret. part. 3. de Conse [...]r. dist. 2. cap. 10.12, 18.36. Durand, rational, divin. offic. lib. 4. cap. 5 [...]. how comes it to have those things, which are so directly contrary to the Masse, that both cannot possibly stand together. In our booke of Common-prayer, we pray to God onely in the mediation [Page 10]of Jesus Christ, and in a knowne language: We professe that Christ by one oblation of himselfe once for all, hath made a full, perfect, and sufficient satisfaction for the sinnes of the whole world: that he hath commanded a perpetuall remem­brance of his death and passion in that his ordinance of the Supper: and that the Sacrament is to be administred in both kinds; the Minister and the people communicating together: were these things taken out of the Masse-booke? The Church of Rome joyneth the two first Commandements in one, or ta­keth away the second, thereby to cloake their Idolatry in the worshipping of Images: But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of England divideth them into two, therein fol­lowing (two of the Fathers at most excepted) all Antiquitie, and fetteth downe the words of the second Commandement at large. The Church of Rome teacheth, that in the Sacra­ment of the Eucharist, the body and bloud of Christ is recei­ved and eaten carnally; that as much is received in one kinde, as in both, and that in the Masse Christ is offered [...] a pro­pitiatory unblouddy Sacrifice, for the sinnes of [...] and dead: But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of Eng­land, in the forme of administring that Sacrament, teacheth expresly; That spiritually by faith wee feed on him in our. hearts, eating and drinking in remembrance that Christ dyed and shed his bloud for us. In the Masse the Priest receiveth a­lone, the people standing by, gazing on: but the Minister and people are appointed with us to communicate together; ac­cording to the institution of Christ, and practice of the pri­mitive Church. We make the communion of the Eucharist properly a Sacrament: They, a Sacrament and a Sacrifice propitiatory: They celebrate at an Altar: wee at a Table; according to the example of our Saviour Christ, his Apostles, and the primitive Church in the purest times. Wee pray for the living; They for the living and dead. And if these be not points directly and expresly contrary to the Romane service, Rome is much departed from her selfe.

Carriers pretence in that particular is a meere jugling trick, that he might insinuate, a change of Religion, might be made among us without any great alteration, which is as likely as the light should be turned into darknesse and not espied. If many points of Popery be not condemned expresly in the Catechisme, or Service-booke (which are for the instruction of the simple in the grounds of Religion, and the administra­tion of the holy things of God, and not to shew what is con­demned in Religion) yet so many points are there taught di­rectly cōtrary to the foundation of Popery that it is not possi­ble Popery should stand, if they take place. And whereas An­tichristianisme standeth in ungodly superstructions and addi­tions to the truth and worship of God; both matter and ob­ject, if the Catechisme and Service-booke have not enough in them in his sense, of necessitie they contradict the whole bulke of Popery, which confisteth in abhominable superflui­ties, or impious inventions of their owne.

It is mone proper to say, the Masse was added to our com­mon-prayer, than that our common-prayer was taken out of the Masse-booke: For most things in our common-prayer, were to be found in the Liturgies of the Church, long before the Masse, whereof wee speake, was heard of in the world. And the Masse was patched up by degrees, and added to the Liturgie of the Church, now one peice, then another; so that the ancient truths and holy Liturgies were at last stained with the Idoll of the Masse, Bishop Jewel. Ser. on Josh. 6.1, 2, 3. The things that may bee reserved ( viz. in the de­struction of Hieri­cho) must not bee dust, or chasse, or hay, or stubble: But gold, silver, i­ron and brasse: I meane, they may not be things meet to furnish & main­taine superstition, but such things as be strong, and may serve either direct­ly to serve God, or els for comelinesse and good order. which was sacrilegiously thrust into them. But the prayers and truths of God taught in that Booke, pertained to the Church, as her prerogative: the Masse and the abhominations thereof belonged into the man of sinne. And if a true man may challenge his goods, which the theese hath drawne into his denne; the Church of God may lawfully make claime unto those holy things, which An­tichrist hath unjustly usurped: That answer which is retur­ned to the accusation, makes against them that sue for disci­pline, viz. That a great part of their discipline is borrowed from the Anabaptists, will serve as a buckler in this case: And it is this; which (I doubt not) you will approve: Whatsoever is proper either to the heresie of Papists and Ana­baptists, Donatists, or Puritanes, that wee utterly condemne to the pit of hell: But if amongst the filth of their heresies, there may be found any good thing (as it were a graine of [Page 12]good corne in a great deale of Darnell) that we willingly re­ceive, not as theirs, but as the Jewes did the holy Arke from the Philistins, T. C. repl. 2. par. 1. Epistle to the Chh of England. whereof they were unjust owners. For herein that is true, that is said; The sheepe must not lay downe her fell, because shee seeth the Wolfe sometimes cloathed with it. August. lib. 2. Serm. de Monte: yea, it may come to passe, that the Synagogue of Satan may have some one thing at one time with more convenience, than the true and catholique Church of Christ: Bishop Jewel. Ser. in Iosh. 6.1.2.3. In religion no part is to be called lit­tle. A haire is but little, yet it hath a shadow. If our Booke please the Papists, it is but in some things, wherein in reverence to Antiquitie, we come too nigh them in some rites and ceremonies; but with the substance of the ministration it selfe they cannot be pleased, unlesse they be displeased with their owne service, and will renounce their owne Religion.

If Pope Pius the fourth, promised to Queene Elizabeth, that if shee would reconcile her selfe to the Church of Rome, Pius the fourth in his Bull sent forth against Queene E­lizabeth, saith, Im­piorū numerus tan­tum potentiâ inva­luit, & nullus jam in orbe locus reli­ctus fit, quem illi pessimis doctrinis corrūpere non ten­tarint. And then speaking of Q. Elizabeth. Missae sacrificium, preces, jejunia, ci­horum delectum. caelibatū abolevit. and acknowledge the supremacy of that Sea; he for his part would binde himselfe to declare the sentence pronounced a­gainst her Mothers marriage, to be unjust; to confirme by his authoritie the English Liturgie; and to permit the admini­stration of the Sacrament here in England under both kindes. It is no new thing for the Pope to permit, and confirme both, for his owne sinister end, what he doth not like or approve. It is no strange matter that the Pope should preferre his su­premacy, before the purity of Religion. And by the words of the offer, the promise of the Pope seemeth not to be exten­ded to the whole Liturgie, and service of the Church, as it is established by Law, but to some part alone; perhaps as it was practised before the sacrifice of the Masse was abolished. For why should it be added, that he would permit the admi­nistration of the Sacraments in both kindes, if he would con­firme the whole English Liturgie, as it is now set forth. After Queene Elizabeth was proclaimed, a Proclamation came forth, that the Letany, the Epistles and Gospels, the Deca­logue, the Creede, and the Lords-prayer should be read in all Churches in the English tongue: but it was the fourteenth of May after, being Whitsunday, before the sacrifice of the Masse was abolished, and the booke of the uniformitie of common-prayer, and the administration of the Sacraments publiquely received, but whether the whole Service be meant or no, it is not much materiall; for he could not confirme it, but he must condemne himselfe.

If the Papists for the first ten yeares, The seditious Bull of Pius Quintus, was set up & pub­lished by Felton, a rebellious traytor, in the twelfth yeer of Q. Elizabeth, which bare date the fifth of the Ca­lends of March, Anno 1569. An. 13. The statute for subscription to the Doctrine of faith & Sacramēts. An. 17. of Q. Eli­zabeth, there was great stirre about Ceremonies and Discipline. Scripsit haec ille (saith Mr. Parker speaking of Dr. Whiteg.) ante natam separationē nostram (quae uti­nam, O utinam [...]na­ta nunquā fuisset!) Park. de polit. Eccl. l. 1. ca. 14. sect. 1. Ann. 20. Began a flourishing time. An. 26. Universall subscription offe­red to the Mini­sters. After which followed grievous troubles, and then separation and fal­ling from the Chh. August. lib. 1. con­tr. ep. Parm. c. 7. Nec quae dicebant probare potuerunt, et adhuc in sanctae Ecclesiae praecisione. Sacrilego furore ferebantur. Acts and Mon. vol. 3. title, The Can­non of the Masse. resorted to our pub­lique Congregations and service, what can we thinke but that the hand of the Lord was with us for good, whiles we sought him unfaignedly, who caused our enemies at least lyingly to submit themselves. For in the first ten yeares of Queen Eliza­beth there was sweet consent amongst brethren. The Pope durst not curse, the Gospell flourished and was glorifyed: the Papists durst not oppose themselves, and I thinke there was not a man that thought of separation. The pressing of sub­scription and conformitie in the tenth yeare of Queen Eliza­beths Reigne, was that which brought in all the troubles and contentions following. For after that Brethren wrote one against another, the Papists they fell backe to their vomit, and in processe of time, and not long after, some of fiery spi­rits advanced the Controversies to such an height, as they for­sooke their brethren, renounced their Mother, and drew themselves into voluntary separation, or schisme. Which rents have beene encreased unto this day by the violent urg­ing of subscription and conformitie on the one fide, and the maintenance of that rash and sinfull departure on the other. But these things convince not our service to be idolatrous.

In few words, if our publique worship be false and devised, it must be, either because it is a stinted or set Liturgie, devised by man, or for some speciall reason in respect of the former matter. If because it is a stinted or set Liturgie devised by man, then it is in vaine to say, it is picked out of the Masse­booke, or it pleaseth the Papists, or the Pope would have con­firmed it: For this doth not make it devised worship, but it is devised worship, because it is a set or stinted forme: And then the same sentence must passe against all set formes of Psalmes, Blessings, Confessions, and Catechismes. Then the publique worship of all the Churches of God throughout the whole world, for the space of this fourteene hundred yeares, if not more, was false, devised and idolatrous. If in respect of the peculiar matter or forme, then either the bare forme of words, order, and methode, must be a part of worship, or the matter and substance of prayers and administration of the Sacra­ments, be forged and devised worship, neither of which was ever said by any Nonconformists, nor can be avouched with colour of truth. The forme may be too like the Masse-booke in some things, and the matter in every point not so pure as [Page 14]is to be desired; but the forme is not worship, nor prayers and substance of administration devised worship.

Such is the unholinesse of this Idol-booke, Sect. 2. Neces. Can. of Separat. p. 81, 82. 2 Admon. pag. 56. Def. Admo. pag. 4. 1 Admonit. pag. 3. Syons plea. 342. 318, 314. Mr. Gil­by. pag. 29. 2 Admon. 57. 1 Admon. 3. as the Nonconformists generally have refused to subscribe unto it; affirming it to be such a peice of worke at it is strange any will use it, there being in it most vile and unallowable things. And for this cause, they have be­sought the Peeres of the Read [...]ie, that it might be utterly removed, and many reasons they have given in severall Treatises, to prove their condemnation of it, just and lawfull. First, because it is an infections Liturgie, Romish-stuffe, a divised service, and in it are many, Religions [...]ixed together, of Christ and Antichrist, of God and the Devill: besides, a booke full of fansies, and a great many things contrary to Gods Word; and prayers which are false, foo­lish, superstitious, and starke naught. Secondly, They cannot ac­count it praying, as they use it commonly, but onely reading or saying of prayers: 2 Admon. 56. even as a childe that learneth to reads, if his lesson be a prayer he readeth a prayer, and doth not pray: even so it is commonly a saying, and reading prayers; and not praying. Thirdly, In all the order there is no edification, but confusion. Fourthly, Wee reade not of any such Liturgie in the Christian Church in the dayes of the Apostles, 1 Admon. pag. 14. Altar Dam. 178. nor in many ages following, till blindnesse, ignorance and lazinesse occasioned a prescript forme to be made for idle and dumbe Priests. Fifthly, If this were not, many would make more profession of Love to preaching, and hea­ring Gods Word, but by this meanes it is neglected and despised: for worldlings, usurers, drunkards, whore-mongers, and other earthly and prophane people, away with nothing so well as English Masse; Against Br. 43. Curt. Ch. power. 42.45. and why? but because it doth not sharply reprove them of their sinnes, nor disclose the secret of their hearts, but that they may continue in all kinde of voluptuousnesse, and all other kinde of wickednesse; Learn. Discour. of Eccl. Govern. 68. Mart. Senior. p. 2. Pract. of Prin. addi. and therefore rightly it is called their sterve-us-booke. Sixthly, God hath no where appointed that the Church should be tyed to reade the Booke of Common-prayer for his worship: and therefore to doe it is an high transgression before him, as great as the sinne of Nadab and Abihu, and such are liable unto the like or greater punishment. Seventhly, If this were praying, and there were never an ill word nor sentence in all the prayers, yet to ap­point it to be used, or to use it as Papists did their Mattens and Evening-song, for a se [...]-service to God, though the words be good, the use is naught. The words of the first Chapter in John be good, but to be put into a Tablet of gold, 2 Admon. pag. 55. for a soveraigne thing to be [Page 15]worne, the use is superstitious and naught; and so is the use of this Service.

The Nonconformists never passed any condemnatorie sen­tence against the Booke of Common-prayer, Answer. as if it was false or devised worship, or against the use of a stinted forme, as if to reade it, was an high transgression before the Lord. Enough hath beene said of their opinion in the former section, where­unto adde this testimony of a man of another Nation, whom you are pleased to stile a chiefe Nonconformist; Course of Confor. pag. 58. The famous confession of faith well known and commended at home and abroad, the formes of prayer publiquely used in the Con­gregations and families of Scotland, must be cast in a new mould.

It is true, Beza Epist. 2. Gravissimè nimi­rum & in semet­ipsos & in fratres reliquos peccare qui naevis istis, aut e­tiam si mavis, cor­rupt [...]lis, et suas ex aliorum cos [...]enti­as non leviter per­turbant, perinde ac si de Christianismo semel ablato age­retur, &c. Sed vi­tia a vitiis & quae condonanda sunt Christianae chari­ [...]ati ab iis quae pror­sus sunt execran­da, pradenter di­stinguenda esset censeo, id (que) tamen non ex carnis sed spiritus prudenti [...]. the Nonconformists judge it unlawfull to sub­scribe to that Booke, that every thing conteined therein is a­greeable to the Scripture, but they condemne not the Booke as an Idol or prophane, nor the use of the Booke in those things which are consonant to the truth. And of this their judgement there is evident ground: for we must not approve the least error (though in it selfe never so harmlesse) for truth, because that were to lie against the truth, and the God of truth needeth not my lie: But many things must be tolerated, when it is not in our power to amend them, which we cannot ap­prove, otherwise we must hold communion with no Church or societie in the world. And of this marke are the corrup­tions noted in the Communion-Booke, as hath been shewed, and is evident by the particulars mentioned in passages which you alledge.

It is true likewise, they judge the Booke in the forme there­of to come too nigh the Papists (and so have others as well as they) and therefore have petitioned that it might be refor­med, that we might depart further from them, and come nee­rer to the reformed Churches. But herein they shew what they judge most convenient, not condemning the Booke for the substance thereof, as a forged worship: How much more convenient were it (saith T. C. T.C. repl. 2. p. 109.) that according to the man­ner of the reformed Churches: first the Minister with an hum­ble and generall confession of faults, should desire the assistance of the Lord for the fruitfull handling and receiving of the Word of God; and then after we have heard the Lord speake unto us in his Word by his Minister, the Church should like­wise [Page 16]speake unto the Lord, and present petitions and suits at once, &c. But how carefull he was to prevent such wayes and speeches as some professors of the Gospel being private men, might be emboldned to breake forth upon such like excepti­ons, T.C. repl. 1. p. 106. is evident by that solemn request he makes unto them that professe the Gospell, in the name of God, that they abuse not his labour to other ends, than he bestowed it, and that they keep themselves in their callings, commit the matter by pray­er unto the Lord, leaving to the Ministers of the word of God, and to the Magistrate that which pertaineth to them. The Protestants in France for substance of matter agree with the Nonconformists herein.

The use of the whole Booke for matter and manner in every thing without addition or alteration they doe not approve, because they conceive some things faulty, others inconveni­ent, and some things defective: and strictly to be tyed to words and syllables, is more than the Lord hath bound us un­to in the administration of his holy Sacraments: But the sub­stance of prayers in the Booke they never disallowed, nor the use of the booke, 2 Admonit. pag. 56. [...] Admonit. pag. 3. as of a vile and filthy thing. Thus the Au­thors of the Admonition must be understood, when they say, The Booke is such a peice of worke, as it is strange we will use it. And now they are bound of necessitie to a prescript order of service, and booke of common-prayer, in which a great number of things contrary to Gods Word are conteined, &c. For they professe they have tolerated what they could not a­mend, 1 Admonit. pag. 9. Park. of the Crosse, part. 2. ca. 9. sect. 4. Wee receive the Communion-book in what wee may; and in omitting of the ceremonies, we doe in equitie keep the Law, because of the end which is to edifie. and used the Booke in their Ministery, so farre as they might, even where they object as great corruptions against it, as in any other place.

To reade or repeate a prayer by heart, as if the bare rehear­sall thereof in so many words and syllables, and none other, was a part of Gods worship, is a transgression of his com­mandement, whether it be prescribed by others or devised of our selves, or set downe in Scripture. And the same may be said of the preaching of the Word, to place opinion of wor­ship in the meere act done in such words or methode, is will-worship or superstition. And we may say of both these exer­cises so used, 2 Admonit. pag. 56. as the Admonition doth, wee cannot account them praying or preaching, but onely reading or rehearsing or saying of a Sermon or prayer; even as a childe that learn­eth a prayer or Sermon without booke; if he rehearse what [Page 17]he hath learned, he rehearseth a prayer or Sermon, but he doth not pray or preach. But this is onely the sinne of him that useth not these prayers as he ought, it argueth not the prayers themselves to be evill, nor the use of a stinted forme publique or private in them that use it, or them that joyne to be disallowed. If it be not praying as it is used ignorantly for custome, without affection, it is praying when used aright with understanding, faith, feeling, and such like affections required in holy prayer.

We reade not of any such Liturgie in the Church of Christ in the dayes of the Bilson Christ. sub­sect. part. 4. p. 407, 408. You may well per­ceive by the Apo­stles words, that they had neither Sermons nor Ser­vice prefixed, nor li­mited in his time: but when the chh. came together, the Elders and Mini­sters instructed the people and made their prayers by miraculous instinct or inspiratiō. This was all the church-service they had: to which they ad­ded the celebration of the Lords Sup­per, but without a­ny setled or prefix­ed order of prayer, except it were the LORDS prayer, which they obser­ved in all places, &c. Apostles, and therefore no such Liturgie is any part of Gods worship or substantiall meanes thereof, to be used without addition or alteratiō of all or any Church, with opinion of necessitie, holinesse, or merit. But a set Litur­gie might be in use in their times, though we reade not of it, for the Apostles set not downe a Catalogue of all and every particular order that was in the Church, but give us a perfect rule or canon of faith and manners in all things necessary to salvation, and all things unchangeably concerning the go­vernment of the Church unto the end of the world. And if there was no stinted Liturgie in their dayes, yet for order a set forme of prayer to be used in publique meeting is not unlaw­full, because it is of the number of things which God hath not determined in his Word, and In the additions to the Admonitiō it is read thus; Remove Homilies, Articles, Injunctions, and that prescript order: wherein they declare that their meaning is not to disallow of prescript service of prayer, but of this forme that we have, T. C. repl. 1. pag. 105. Dr. Whiteg. answer to the Admonition, pag. 143. where God hath not prescri­bed any forme, there no forme must be esteemed any part of worship, or condemned as simply unlawfull. For as to call that holy which God hath not sanctified is superstition; so it is erroneous to condemne that as unholy or prophane, which God alloweth or is consonant to his Word, though it be not precisely commanded. But that there was no such Bilson ibid. pag. 409. Had they set an order for the service of the church, durst any man af­ter have broken it? or any church refused it? Liturgie in many ages following, till blindnesse, ignorance and lazi­nesse occasioned a prescript forme to be made for idle and dumbe Priests, is your addition to the Nonconformists rea­sons, and not their saying; and more then can be proved by good Authoritie. Of the precise antiquitie of stinted Litur­gies, it is hard to determine, but that they have beene in use in [Page 18]the Christian Church for the space of this fourteene hundred yeares, if not above, no man can denie. It is more than pro­bable that stinted formes were in use in the Greeke Churches, before they came to the The Bishops of Rome were 600. yeares and upward, patching & peic­ing the Masse, be­fore they brought it to any setled forme. Polydor. De Invent. rer. l. 5. c. 10. Latine, at least many things were translated out of the Greeke Liturgies into the Latine. But in the Latine Church we finde a stinted forme was in use in Cy­prians time, in the administration of the Supper; not to insist upon that which some mention of the Lords prayer used in the celebration, from the very times of the Apostles. And some the chiefe promoters of a stinted Liturgie are renowned for their constant and unwearied paines, in preaching every day in the weeke, and sometimes twice. So that there is no probabilitie; that the first occasion of a stinted Rome had one forme of service: Millain, another: France, a third; Greg. respon. ad 3. interrogat. Aug. Liturgie was to helpe the ignorant, idle or dumbe Priest, as you are pleased to phrase it. Where you borrowed this clause I know not, but I cannot finde that ever the See T. C. repl. 1. pag. 106. Nonconformists have thus written.

In all the order there is (you say) no edification, but con­fusion; but the 2 Admon. pag. 14. Author of the Admonition saith, In all their order of service there is no edification, according to the Rule of the Apostle, but confusion: which seemeth to be referred rather to the In the Church of Corinth, some of their Elders, stran­gers or inhabitāts, to venditate them­selves and the gifts they had of God, might sometimes blesse or make their prayers at the Lords Table in a tongue not understood of the whole multi­tude. But this a­buse doth not con­demne the exercise it selfe. abuse in too many places, than to the order it selfe prescribed in the booke, as the instances following, of tossing the Psalmes like tennise-balls in many places, and the peoples standing, walking, talking, reading by themselves, doe evidence. But the Booke is not to be burdened with the faults of men, though too ordinary and common.

The Nonconformists dislike that nothing els should be re­quired of Ministers, but barely to reade service: and the or­daining of ignorant Ministers they condemne, as contrary to the Word of God, and the meanes to nuzzle people in igno­rance, securitie, lukewarmnesse and sinne. But the use of a stinted Liturgie, or the reading of prayers in the publique assembly, they never gainesaid as unlawfull or inexpedient. We agree (saith T .C. repl. 1. p. 106. T. C.) of a prescript forme of prayer to be used in the Church. And in the other, no question many Conformists doe consent with them. A prescript service there­fore and an Rutges. Metaph. institut. lib. 1. ca. de Bono. Effectus per accidens secutus ex actione vel omissi­one alicujus, non imputatur ei; nisi intercedat obliga­tio, cavendi unum ne aliud sequatur. Hoc pacto unus bo­mo nonpotest juste & recte intendere permissionem lap­sus alterius. ignorant or carelesse Ministery, have no necessa­ry coherence; the one is lawfull, the other unlawfull, the one may be retained, the other ought to be taken away. It is no consequence to reason thus; The Nonconformists disallow [Page 19]a Ministery that can doe nothing but reade, as that which makes men neglect the preaching of the Word, therefore a prescript Liturgie is disliked.

To appoint or use a prayer conceived or stinted as the Pa­pists doe their Mattens and Evensong, for a set service to God, howsoever it be uttered ignorantly, for custome with lips onely, alone or with others in publique or private, as if the re­hearsall of such words, though neither understood nonheard, were an acceptable service, from Bils. Christ. sub­ject. part. 4. p. 416. Your maine foun­dation is a dreame of your owne, that the Church of Co­rinth had a prescri­bed nūber of pray­ers pronounced by some one Chap­saine, that said his lessō within book, and might not goe one line besides his Missale for any good. This you i­magine was their Church-Service; all other prayers, Psalmes, blessings, & thankesgivings, though they were used openly in the Congregation, and the whole people bound to say, A­men; you will not have to be called Church-service. which he must not depart one word for any good, is a superstition justly to be condem­ned. Thus to repeate the words of a prayer, though never so good and holy, is not to pray. But, this makes nothing a­gainst the lawfull, holy, religions use of a stinted forme of prayer publique or private, which is that we plead for. And this is all that can be gathered from the Author of the Admo­nition. There needs no great skill to discerne the inconse­quence of this manner of arguing which here you use; To use a stinted forme as the Papists doe for a set-service is naught, though the words be good; therefore a stinted or prescribed forme is altogether unlawfull.

And put case some private or singular person hath spoken roughly in heate and passion of the Booke of Common-pray­er, or seemed to disallow the stinted use of a publike found of prayer or Liturgie, his speech or position, delivered as his pri­vate conceite, (and perhaps not rightly apprehended) must not be interpreted the principle of the Nonconformists, con­trary to the tenour of their writing, profession, and practice, much lesse must his words be racked contrary to his meaning, as if he condemned all stinted Liturgies as falso, de [...]ised and i­dolatrous worship, or did leane unto, favour, or uphold the practice of separation from the assemblies, because such Litur­gies are in use among them.

Howsoever by the grounds of the Nonconformists laid downe in the second section, Sect. 3 Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 92, 93, 94, &c. to 98. separation must necessarily follow from all com­munion with them in the worship of their Church-service-booke, yet to have the point more fully proved, I will here shew that every particular thereof, is affirmed of themselves to be idolatrous, false, Antichristian. Touching the Booke we may consider two things: First, The distinct services thereof: Secondly, The Ceremonies u­sed in and about the same. Wee will speake first of their Ceremo­nies, that is, of the Crosse, Surplice, and Kneeling in the act of re­ceiving [Page 20]the Lords Supper: Against these many Treatises have beene purposely written; I will here onely observe some of their speeches, referring the Reader to their Bookes, if he desire more sa­tisfaction, &c.

Voluntary separation from the ordinances of Religion in our assemblies, Answer. is neither commanded by God, nor taught by the Prophets, or Apostles. It is not approved by the practice of the Saints, nor grounded upon the principles of the Non­conformists, as hath beene shewed. That there be A disputation a­gainst the English-popish, &c. Epistle to the Reformed Churches: In Eng­land & Ireland, e­very noysom weed which Gods hand never had planted, was not pulled up, &c. Sprint repl. to the answ pag. 269. acknowledgeth the reformatiō of En­gland to have been defective. abuses and corruptions in the Booke, the Nonconformists doe not deny; and therefore in all humilitie they have sought to have them reformed; but that they affirme the whole service thereof to be idolatrous, false, Antichristian, that is your impudent slan­der. That many Treatises have been written against the Cere­monies imposed upon the Ministers and people, is very true. But in the relation which you make out of them, these few things must be observed. First, what is spoken of one Cere­mony, you apply to all, when there is not the same reason of all, in the judgement of them that wrote. Secondly, what they write of the Ceremonies as they are used amongst the Pa­pists, that you report as if they understood it of the use of the Ceremonies as they are imposed and injoyned amongst us. Thirdly, The private opinion of one, you alledge, as if it was the common principle of the Nonconformists, though you doe, or might know, that generally they are of another mind. Fourthly, Amongst your chiefest Nonconformists you al­ledge, such as be not English-Nonconformists, nor speake of English-Conformitie, but that which was lately brought in among themselves; whose case doth much differ from ours in their judgement. But the further examination of these things is needlesse; let us heare how from these principles of the Nonconformists, you can conclude the necessitie of Separa­tion.

From all which, Can. Neces. of Se­p [...]rat. pag. 98. this argument may be framed: That worship in which a man cannot possibly communicate without sinne, he is bound necessarily to separate from. But that worship in which these Idolls are made and used, viz. the Crosse, Surplice, and Kneeling, a man cannot possibly communicate without sinne. Therefore from that worship, wherein these Idols are made and used, a man is bound necessarily to separate. The proposition is certaine, and by Doctor Ames in his cases of Conscience acknowledged. Although (saith [Page 21] Lib. 4. cap. 24. he) we may joyne to that Church, in which many defects are to be tolerated, yet not to that in which we cannot but necessarily par­take in sinne. The Assumption is assented unto by as Parker. Crosse. lib. 1. pag. 20. 21. judicious and zealous Nonconformists as ever held that cause, and they have brought good proofes, for it. First, because men must flie from I­dols and Idolothites: But when they come to worship God after the order of the Congregation where these things are practised, they doe not flie from them, but draw neere unto them. Secondly, Their bare presence argues their approbation, and yeelding in shew to Ceremonies. Thirdly, Mr. Bates. p. 258. Though the personall sinnes of the Mini­ster doe not hurt the people, yet his ministeriall and publique sinnes doe hurt, which he performes for the people to God, and so their joy­ning with him is unlawfull. Fourthly, What example can be brought where the holy men of God have communicated with such things. The Author of the dispute upon communicating at thier confused Communions, affirmes confidently, that the sitter is ac­cessary to the sinne of the keeler, and he gives many reasons for it, whereof wee shall have a fit occasion hereafter to speake.

Can any man beleeve, Answer. that the Nonconformists say both parts of your reason are true, viz. That a man is bound to se­parate from that societie, wherewith he is not permitted to hold communion in the worship of God without sinne; and that a man cannot hold communion with the Church of Eng­land in the worship of God without sinne.

The first of these propositions is most true taught in Scrip­ture, which forbiddeth. Rom. 3.7, 8. to doe evill that good may come thereof, or Iob 13.9. tell a lie for the glory of God, and acknowled­ged by the learned of all sorts and professions whatsoever. If the Church shall deny communion to any member, because he will not approve the least sinne, or acknowledge the least knowne errour for truth, in that case the Church is schisma­ticall, which doth cast out such a member, and not the mem­ber which doth suffer himselfe injuriously to be cast out. For God needs not my lie, and by divine precept I am obli­ged not to allow against conscience what the Lord condem­neth. You need not therefore take such paines as you doe, to prove the corruptions in our Booke of publique service to be so many in number, or hainous in quality, as you would make the world beleeve; much lesse to straine your conscience in misreporting as you have done: For if you can shew, that by [Page 22]communicating in the ordinances of worship, in that or any other societie or Church under Heaven, we necessarily par­take in sinne, of what sort soever, great or small, either appro­ving what is unlawfull, or subscribing to an errour knowne so to be, it will easily be granted that it is unlawfull to joyne in that communitie. Be the The good Kings of Judah were fa­voured and blessed of God, for walk­ing in the waies of David their Fa­ther, and purging the Land from all sacrifices and cere­monies not pre­scribed by Moses Law. Bils. Christ. subject. part. 1. p. 32. But if the Prin­ces were remisse, the people were not commanded to se­parate from the or­dinances of wor­ship. corruptions few or many, great or small; if by communicating in the ordinances of grace in that societie, I must necessarily partake in sinne; small or great, one or many, my communicating is unwarrantable: And let the abuses be many and great, yet if I may be present at the true worship of God without sinne, consent unto, or approbation of such abuses or corruptions, in voluntary separation I sinne against God, his Church, and mine owne soule, withdrawing my selfe from the ordinances of grace, the comfortable pre­sence of Christ, and the societie of his Saints, without allow­ance or approbation from God, to whom I owe my selfe wholly.

Your long Catalogue of corruptions to be found in our Liturgie, is to small purpose, unlesse you could prove some of them to be fundamentall, hereticall, and really idolatrous, which you can never doe, or that by communicating in the ordinances of grace, we doe Be the abuses ne­ver so palpable, if the person be not authorized of God to reforme them, or separate, it is not Just or lawfull for private persons to attempt them. For when Malefactors deserve to die, it is not for private men to put them to death, without the Magistrate. Bilson Christ. sub­ject. part. 3. pa. 97. David committed adultery, Salomon erected idolatry; both offences be­ing death by Gods law: might the peo­ple therefore have David and Salo­mon to death? approve such corruptions, and then be they one or many, great or small, wee must not com­municate in the ordinances with them. Which if any man shall lightly beleeve, he may know from whom, but not whi­ther to flie: For there will be found no societie in the whole world, whereunto a Christian might lawfully joyne himselfe, and yours much lesse than many others.

You tell us very confidently, that as zealous and judicious Nonconformists as ever held that cause, affirme, that a man cannot without sinne communicate in that worship, where the Ceremonies are used. But whether should a man admire more your impudency, or vaine confidence herein? Must not he mi­strust you in every thing, that shall consider how notoriously you lavish in this particular? Is it not contrary to their pro­fession, protestation, and practice? Doe they not usually fre­quent the Congregations? have they not written in mainte­nance and defence thereof? who have cryed downe by confe­rence, preaching, writing, the neglect of Gods ordinances, or the practice of separation more than they? And yet you blush not to write, that our Assumption is assented unto by as [Page 23]judicious and zealous Nonconformists as ever held that cause, and they have brought good reasons for it.

First, You quote M r Parker. lib. 1. pag. 20, 21. Parker, That men must flie from Idols and Idolothites: but men when they come to worship God in socie­ties where the Ceremonies are used, they doe not flie from Idols, but draw neere unto them. But if a man should have sought out a place of purpose to manifest your fraudulent and unconscio­nable alledging of mens words and sayings, he could scarce have found a second more pregnant. The whole passage in M r Parker, to which you send us, I will set downe at large, because it serves to cleere the matter in many particulars, and all men may take the better notice of your fidelitie. There is an Idoll more strictly taken (saith he) and an Idoll of larger sence, which will include the Crosse. For the better under­standing whereof, wee must borrow a distinction from the Tho. Aqui. com. in Epist. ad Coloss, c. 1. sect. 4. Schoolmen, by which a thing may be guilty of Idolatry, Essentialiter, participative, and causaliter: which our doctrine at Hom. of Idolat. par. 1. pag. 4, 5. home doth backe, that is confirmed by act of Parliament, affirming that to be an Idoll in Gods service, which hath beene or is like to be worshipped. What is worshipped by our selves, that is an Idoll essentially; what hath been wor­shipped or is now worshipped abroad by others, that is an I­doll by participation; what is likely to be worshipped, that is an August. vet. Te­stam. qu. lib. 7. qu. 41. Idoll, causing Idolatry in time to come; In which sense, Gideons Ephod may be termed an Idoll quedam modo, and that it may be even before it was adored. And hereby are many objections answered. Our Rainold. de Idol. lib. 2. [...]ap. 2. sect. 2. Bilson. Christ. sub­ject. part. 4. p. 321. Call you the Image of Christ an Idoll; not unlesse it be worshipped; but if it be, then it is an Idoll, and in­cense burnt unto it is Idolatrie. Writers deny an Image in the Church, say some, to be an Idoll, in case it be not worship­ped. True, an Idoll essentially, but as many of them as desire to have Images thrust out of the Church (of which sort there be a great number) they hold them guilty of Idolatry by par­ticipation, and by occasioning, or els why will they thrust them out. A second objection is wont to be made; If the signe of the Crosse be an Idol with us, then must men separate from our Church, and from our Baptisme; which followeth not. From Idols essentially men ought to separate by the example of the 2 Chron. 11.13.10. Levites and the two tribes that made separation from the Calves of Jeroboam. From Idols of participation and oc­casion, men ought to keepe their owne selves pure, but not to separate, by the ensample of the 2 Reg. 16.21. godly, who separated not from the Temple of God, for Damascus Altar there, and from [Page 24]the 1 Reg. 22.43. Church, because of her high places. It is objected once more against us; If our signe of the Crosse be an Idoll, then our Ministers that doe make it be Idolaters, and our Church Idolatrous also. This followes not neither. For denomina­tion being from the forme, and the crosse not being formally an Idoll amongst us, but materially (I speake in comparison of the Popish Crosse, in regard whereof we may be said to use that which is an Idoll, but we doe not use it idolatrously;) therefore as D r Fulke Dr. Fulk against Greg. Mart. cap. 3, sect. 20. concludes of the Lutherans for having Images in their Churches, the same must be said of all those Protestants, that will retaine crosses, they sinne against the two first Commandements, through Idolothisme, not directly through Idolatry, and therefore they may not be tearmed I­dolaters. Howbeit, by way of reduction, Idolothisme is in some sort guilty of Idolatry, as sheweth the 1 Cor. 10.34. Apostle, who in stead of saying, Flie from Idolothisme, saith, Flie from Idola­try. This Idolatry by reduction what is it els, but Idolatry by participation; as doth appeare by the 18.20. and 24. verses following. But this participation is not in our Crosse (will our opposits say) who first least haply they should mistake us, we desire to recount the ancient Pet. Martyr. in 1 Cor. 10.16. distinction; Plus est commu­nio, quàm participatio; nam ad hanc satis est partem habere, sed ad illam requiritur ut prorsus uniamur, at (que) totum percipiamus, quod nobis proponitur. This being premised, that wee charge the Crosse not with a totall communion, but with a Things ordained by God, must have reverence, though they be but crea­tures, as things that be sacred by the word & ordinance of God: But ado­ration they must not have. Aug. de doct. Christ. lib. 3. cap. 9. Qui vene­ratur utile signum divinitus institutum, cujus vim significationem (que) intelligit, non hoc veneratur quod videtur, sed illud potius quo talia cuncta referenda sunt. But Images are signes unprofitable to serve God with, and dangerous; And since the Law of God expresly and strictly chargeth us not so much as to bow our bodies or knees to the likenesse of any thing in Heaven or Earth, which is made with hands, it can neither be Christian nor catholique to doe it. See Bilson. Christ, sub­ject. part. pag. 391. & 534. Theodoret. Dial. 2. useth the word Adoration for an externall re­gard and reverence. Veneration is a word that Augustine foundeth all the signes & sacraments of the old and new Testament: Adoration he reserveth to God onely. Aug. de docr. Christ. lib. 3. cap. 9. participa­tion in part onely, we doe thus bring in our evidence against him. Thus M r Parker. Now consider how many wayes you falsifie his testimony, and whether you did it willingly or no, let your conscience judge? M r Parker saith, The Crosse is an Idoll materially but not formally, that is, amongst the Papists it is an Idoll essentially, and so the use of the Crosse, is the use of that which is an Idoll, but not used idolatrously amongst us. You make him to say, because we must flie from Idols, therefore wee cannot communicate in the worship of God [Page 25]where the Crosse is used without sinne. He saith, Men must keepe themselves pure from Idolothites, and not partake in the use of them, but not separate from the Church or ordi­nances of grace, because such rites or ceremonies are used in the administration: you cleane contrary make him to say, That men cannot communicate in the ordinances, or worship God in that societie, where such things are practised, but of necessitie they must communicate in the sinne. He teacheth, That he that useth the Idolothite or materiall Idoll, is not an Idolater, because he doth not use it idolatrously: but you make the Nonconformists to say, that it is an idolatrous worship, and that it defileth the true worship of God, to all that are present. M r Parker extendeth the guilt of participation in part onely, to him that useth the Idolothite, you make him to affirme, that every one present at the worship, doth communi­cate in his offence. Perhaps you will say, it is your inference upon his words: But the consequence is absurd and sence­lesse: And to charge men to affirme directly as a principle, what you would inferre contrary to their expresse words, is far from honest and plaine dealing.

Secondly, You produce M r Bates, saying, That bare pre­sence argues approbation or yeelding in shew to Ceremonies, I cannot say, you deale with M r Bates, as you have done by M r Parker and others, for I have not seene his Booke. But if any such passage be found in him, it is his private opinion, not the judgement of the most learned and zealous Inconfor­mists: It is a bare assertion, not confirmed by Scripture, or backed with reason, as is meete and convenient, when it is the maine thing in question, and might easily be opposed by the testimonies of Scripture, approved practice of the Saints in all ages of the Church, the judgement of the godly learned, sound reason, and the consent of all States that ever upheld or maintained Christian Religion. If bare presence be appro­bation, I desire to know, how you can reconcile your selfe to your selfe. When D r Ames alledgeth, that every Church is not to be left, which hath something in it by participation Idolatrous. Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pa. 114, 115. You answer; I know no man holds the con­trary: therefore I cannot tell for what end he speakes it, much lesse why he puts a schismaticall conceit upon the Rej: whose words, if they be well rectified, have substance and weight in them. But if bare presence be approbation, how [Page 26]can we hold communion with that Church, wherein any thing is left, which is by participation idolatrous, when this is that which the Nonconformists impute to the Crosse a­mong us, that it is by participation idolatrous in them that use it. And if the reason following be well weighed (though in it selfe it hath neither weight nor substance) it will over­weigh this: For if bare presence be approbation, why should not the personall sinnes of the Minister hurt the people! or why are they not guilty of his personall sinnes by participa­tion, when they communicate with him in the worship of God where they are practiced, as in prayer, preaching, ad­ministration of the Sacraments, reading the Scriptures, &c. Presence in the Idoll-Temple at Idoll-worship is sinfull, though in heart men pretend to detest Idolatry: vaine, need­lesse presence where Idolothites are used, as to eate of things sacrificed to Idols in the place of their Idoll-banquet, or to sit downe, though he doe not eate, is scandalous and offensive: but presence at Gods worship, which God hath commanded, where Christ is present to meete, welcome and blesse his ser­vants, though some things by participation Idolatrous be re­tained or used therein is neither sinfull nor offensive, it carri­eth no evill appearance of approbation or consent.

This distinction of personall and ministeriall sinnes, as it is here applied, I never found in the writings of Nonconformist, and in it selfe it is a meere invention and device, which hath no ground from Scripture, and must have no place in Divinitie. For if the Minister be ignorant, proud, carelesse, prophane, corrupt in judgement, superstitious in some observations, be these sinnes personall or publique and Ministeriall. If perso­nall, then should not they hurt the people, if this be true which here you affirme: But when you are directly crosse to your selfe throughout your whole booke. If publique and ministe­riall, then the people are guilty of the Ministers ignorance, carelesnesse, pride, passion, indiscretion, &c. And if these be publique and ministeriall, I desire to know what is a perso­nall and what a ministeriall fault. If a Minister in preaching or prayer put up a rash petition, or deliver a rash sentence, give a weake reason, an unsound tryall, use vaine repetitions, a confused methode; if he mis-interpret the Scripture, or doe not soundly deduce his doctrines out of the Text he taketh upon him to expound; if he divide it not aright, or some way [Page 27]misapply it; are these publique and ministeriall or personall and private faults, if personall, I desire to know what makes a fault ministeriall and publique, and see it proved. If that w ch is done by a Minister in preaching and prayer, blessing and administration of the Sacraments be not ministeriall, I know not what is to be called ministeriall. If they be publique and ministeriall, then whosoever communicates with a Minister in the worship of God, he is guilty of all the sins publiquely committed by him in this kind, if that distinction be of any worth. Which if it be granted, (If I may judge of your preaching by your writing) it is high time for all your hea­rers to hast from you, for you mis-alleadge Scripture, slan­der the godly, speake evill of the wayes of God, teach many falshoods, and whiles they joyne with you in the worship of God, they are partakers of your transgression.

The exposition which is made of publique and ministeriall faults, to wit, such as he performeth for the people to God, is as strange, if not more strange then the distinction it selfe, as it is applyed. For in preaching the Word, and reading the Scripture, a ministeriall fault may be committed, which is not performed for the people to God. In prayer, the faults of the Minister are not ever ministeriall, if we may beleeve the fore­named distinction, and yet prayer is an action performed for the people to God. And let that description stand, and the use of our ceremonies are no ministeriall faults; for they are neither performed for the people unto God, nor from God unto the people, as the Church professeth. But I have stood too long about these things, because in the first Chapter the contrary hath been shewed at large.

And if M r Bates be truely alledged in this particular, that bare presence in his conceit was approbation, yet this is a peece of cunning in you not very commendable, that you bring the private judgement of one man, as if it was the com­mon principle of the chiefest Inconformists. For so you doe in this place, and so a little Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 96. before you say, the strictest In­conformists affirme, that it is utterly unlawfull for Parents to bring their children to be crossed, for which you cite onely the testimony of the forenamed Author: And yet within a few leaves, you are not ashamed to say in the names of many at least Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 118.. Note here how greatly they contradict one another. They said even now, that their ceremonies are such Idolls, [Page 28]as a man cannot lawfully joyne with that worship where they are used, yet here they say, that they are not worse than were the superstitions in the Jewes worship, unto which Christ and his Apostles joyned. The chiefe thing here to be noted is your unconscionable dealing. First, you pretend to set downe the principles of the Nonconformists, and to inferre upon their grounds the necessitie of separation, when you relate nothing lesse, than that which they affirme. Secondly, The Beza. Epist. 2. Verum inquient, ut nō inquinemur eo­rum peccato, atta­men favere eorum errorem sic videbi­tur. Imò ne hoe qui­dem satis recte di­citur. Quid enim absurdius est, quàm cum accusare tan­quam alieni vitiis fautorem, qui ut fratrem lucratur, ejus infirmitatem rolerat. Tibi non frangitur panis, sed integer datur & laudari sane id nō potest, nec debet, at tu certe id pecca­tum non committis, quod in te potius committitur. opinion of one man walking alone, you charge upon all, or the chie­fest of the Nonconformists, who dissent as much from him therein, as he doth from the most rigid Separatist. Thirdly, He saith not, That our Ceremonies are Idolls, but speaks of the Crosse onely: and if he say of the use thereof, as it is a­mongst us, that it is Idolatry, it is that which he can never prove, nor Inconformist will take upon him to justifie. And if bare presence be approbation and consent, all worship must be forsaken, which hath any thing annexed unto it errone­ous, irreverent, superstitious in the manner of performance by the Minister: for wee must not doe the least evill for the greatest good. Fourthly, Whatsoever you can make of our Ceremonies or other abuses and corruptions in the worship of God, I doe not thinke you can bring forth any one Non­conformist, that ever said the use of the Ceremonies amongst us, are worse than the superstitions and corruptions in the Jewes worship in the dayes of our Saviour Christ and his A­postles; unto which worship our Saviour and his Apostles joy­ned themselves.

Thirdly, You alledge the A dispute against the English-popish Epist to all reform. Though some of the cōtroverted ce­remonies have bin kept and reserved in many (not all) the reformed chur­ches, yet they are not therefore to be the better liked of. For the reason of the reservation was, because some reverend Divines, &c. is scarcely expe­cted to effectuate so much as the purging of the Church from fundamentall errors and grosse Idolatry, which wrought them to be content, that lesser abuses in Discipline and Church-go­vernment should then be tolerated, &c. All which since they were once purged away from the Church of Scotland, &c. Author of the Dispute upon communicating at confused Communions, affirming that the sitter is accessary to the sinne of the kneeler. But he was no English-Nonconformist, nor doth intreat of English confor­mitie. And if there be any speciall reasons, why presence should be accounted approbation with them in that particu­lar, it is no equitie his private opinion should be brought to the prejudice of them that maintaine another cause. But as yet we cannot see either from Scripture grounds, or Nonconfor­mists [Page 29]principles, that it is utterly unlawfull to be present at the worship of God, in the administration whereof some su­perstitious rite is used, or some fault committed.

Your long labour in setting downe the faults to be found in our Liturgie is to small purpose. The Nonconformists doe except against many things appointed in the Booke, as incon­venient at least, and such as should be taken away or reformed; as, The reading of Apocryphall books, under the title of ho­ly Scripture, specially such parts as be corrupt for matter: The Crosse and Surplice as Idolothites by participation and signes of mysticall signification: The corruptions in the tran­slations: and some things in the formes of Buriall, Matrimo­ny, Thanksgiving for Women after child-bed, &c. But these they condemne not as Idolatry, nor as that which maketh the worship it selfe Magdeburg. cen­tu 2. ca. 2. col. 109. A true Church as it containes the pure doctrine, so also it keepes sim­plieitie of ceremo­nies; but an hypo­criticall Church, as it departs from pure doctrine, so for the most part it changeth & aug­menteth the cere­monies instituted of God, and mul­tiplieth its owne traditions, &c. Can. Stay. pa. 123. false and idolatrous. It is one thing to say such a rite is inconvenient, superstitious, scandalous borrow­ed from the Papists, not warranted by the word of God, in the use will-worship, if the word be taken largely; another that the worship it selfe is false and idolatrous. Therefore I will not stand to examine the particulars therein, but proceed to examine what you bring further to shew the necessitie of Se­paration.

SECT. IV.

HEre is a fit place to propound a Question or two; First, whe­ther to hold, teach, and practise the errours and lyes contai­ned in their Canons, Service-booke, Booke of Articles, and the or­dering of Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, doe mak [...] a false Pro­phet. Secondly, Whether to hide from the people the knowledge of all the maine truths, which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible Church, make a false Prophet. Thirdly, Whether it be lawfull to heare any false Prophet knowne so to be. Qu: In what ranke of Prophets, unlawfull Ministers be, and under what Scripture they are comprehended. I would have a private Chri­stian aske this Question of some learned Divine, whom he knowes doth hold it lawfull to heare false Ministers. And it is very like­ly he will answer him with deep silence. There is one Question more, viz. whether the Lords lawfull Priests, which served at the Altar in Jerusalem, might not as well urge their people to heare Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel, as the Ministers now un­der [Page 30]the Gospell, to perswade men to heare in false Churches. If is be not all one, shew the difference.

ANSVVER.

TO your two last Questions, answer hath been made di­vers times in sundry Treatises, and in the first chapter of this present answer, and you know the Scriptures plainly al­ledged, to confirme what is said, which you should have con­futed if you had been able, and not againe and againe to come over with the same thing. If any learned Divine shall answer the demand with deep silence, it may be because the partie de­manding is uncapable of an answer, not because there is any great difficultie in the matter. It is a received Rule, That the Accuser, Plaintiffe, and Affirmer, should make proofe of what they say, and if you erre, your Questionist will affirme, it is all one for the people of the Jewes to heare Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel, and the people in England to heare the word of God in our assemblies, you must either bring good evidence for what you say, or beare the brand of Slaunderers or false Beza. Epist. 2. An enim obsecro aliter est de Sacra­mētis. i. de doctrinae appendicibus, quàm de ipsa doctrina ju­dicandum. At qui si nullam esse ecclesiā dicamus ubi nul­lus est prorsus in cunctis doctrinae Christianae dogma­tibus naevus, refel­lent nos Pauli Epi­stolae Corinthiacis, et Galaticis Eccle­siis inscriptae; &c. Ita (que) ubi non satis pura est Ecclesiâ, Ecclesia tamen est in qua salvum ma­net fundamentum, ac multo magis ubi ritus Caenae Domi­ni mutilus est, Cae­na tamen est, &c. Accusers. Is it sufficient thinke you to say, If it be not so, let them shew the contrary. Your second Question will come to be handled in the next Chapter, and there it shall be answered. Your first Question onely which I scarce thinke another man would have asked, pertaineth to this place wher­unto I answer directly and plainly, That a Minister of the Gospell, may hold, teach, and practise, according to the Book of Common Prayer, Articles, and Ordination, and be a true Minister of Jesus Christ. Nay, he cannot truely hold and pra­ctice according to them, but of necessitie he must be a true Mi­nister in respect of his office and administration. For the wor­ship for substance there prescribed is of God, the doctrine pro­fessed in respect of faith and Sacraments, sound and true. No errour either in speech hereticall, or which doth tend to over­throw the foundation which is taught in them. Suppose the seventie errours which Can. Neces. of Separat. pag. 243, 244, 245. you reckon up were all true, and just­ly taken against the Books, and as many more to them might be named; as it is not the number but the qualities of the er­rours which make a false Prophet, false Church, or false wor­ship. One fundamentall errour (as the word is commonly u­sed) overthroweth the faith: and twenty errours of inferiour [Page 31]alloy, doe not much hurt the truth and soundnesse of faith. The maine truths which concerne the very life and soule of Religion be Vsher. de success. Eccl. cap. 1. few, and the failings which may stand with the substance of Religion many. Let it aske a better wit and head then ever M r Dar. (or your Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 185. selfe) had to prove that there are halfe so many corruptions in the Religion professed by the English-Anabaptists (adde if you please, the Separatists, Pela­gians, Arrians) as are to be found in the English-Liturgie: It will not be hard to prove that errours must be The communion of the Catholique Church is not bro­ken by the varietie of rites, customes, laws, and fashions, which many places and countries have different each from other, except they be repugnant to faith or good man­ners. August. Epist. 118. ad Ianuar. Eu­seb. hist. lib. 5. cap. 26. & lib. 5. c. 23. Socrat. lib. 5. ca. 21. weighed, and not numbred; and that the errours of all these sorts are in specie much more dangerous and pernicious, though not so many. If you can prove any one errour in specie hereticall, to be taught in those Bookes, according to the true meaning and intent of the Bookes, then I will consent unto you, that he which administers in all things according unto them, is not a true Minister of Jesus Christ: But if that cannot be done (and I presume you will hardly be drawne to attempt it) in all your raging termes and reproachfull taunts cast upon our worship, Church, and Ministery, you doe but foame out your owne shame. The true Ministers of Christ may erre in many things, else it will hardly be found, that there is any true Mi­nister: and therefore to prove a Minister to be a false Prophet, it sufficeth not to say; he Cypr. li. 2. Ep. 3. If any of our pre­decessors either ig­notantly or simply did not observe & keepe that which the Lord by his example and au­thoritie willed, his simplicitie may be pardoned by the goodnesse of God. Aug. Ep. 48. This blemish in his most beautifull breast, hee covered with the teares of cha­ritie, August. de Baptis. l. 4. cap. 5. Ignosci potest sim­pliciter erranti. erreth in many things; but wee must shew the errours for qualitie to be such, as cannot be in a true or lawfull Prophet of the Lord

And here I would aske you this one Question; Whether there was any true Ministery in the Christian Churches, with­in the space of the fourth, fift, or fixt ages after Christ. If not; what is then become of the promises of God made to the Churches of the New Testament? If yes; whether was not their course of administration polluted with as many, or more dangerous errours, than can truely be named in all the Bookes forementioned? And so expecting your resolution of this one demand, I proceed to your third ground of Separa­tion, drawne, as you say, from the Nonconformists Princi­ples.

CHAP. III.

SECT. I.

IF the publique Assemblies of England have not the power of the censures, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. p. 149, 150. and excommunication, but stand under a government which came wholly and every part from the Devill, and Antichrist, then is their condition naught, then are they false and Anti­christian Churches. The reason is, because this power is of abso­lute necessitie for the Churches of Christ, an essentiall propertie thereof, and serve not onely for their well-being, but the being it selfe, for without this, there can be no coupling of the parts and members together. And so much De consc. lib. 4. cap. 24. pag. 214. D r Ames testifieth. Now the Assemblies of England were not gathered by any such power, but in their first constitution wanted the same, and had this false power which is exercised at this day, as the Nonconformists doe acknow­ledge. Our arguments which we have used in this point, have been to this effect: Every true visible Church hath a power immediate­ly under Christ, to execute Church-government. But the pub­lique Congregations of England, have not any such power under Christ to execute Church-government. Therefore they are not true visible Churches. What they will say to this I know not, but hitherto they have been silent, or answered to no purpose in the world. For it is usually their manner to tell us, how the Churches in Corinth, Pergamus, Thyatira, &c. neglected to execute dis­cipline, as though there were no difference betwixt omitting to ad­minister the ordinance, and the want wholly of it; yea, and to have an Antichristian and devilish in the roome of it.

ANSVVER.

YOu undertooke to prove the necessitie of Separation from the Nonconformists Principles: But here you reject their Principles with disdaine, and build your responsive conclusi­ons, as you call them, upon your own foundation, which you know doth not accord with their Principles.

The Nonconformists hold discipline necessary to the well­being of a Church, the safety of Religion, the preservation of [Page 33]Gods ordinances from contempt. They compare it to the Bilson. perpet. ch. gov. ca. 1. Since the Church of Christ is the house of God, the Citie of the living GOD, and the kingdome of his welbeloved Sonne: Shall we thinke that God is carefull for others, & carelesse for his own? or that con­fusion ought to be lesse doubted and feared in heaven­ly than in earthly things. wall of a Citie, hedge of a Vineyard, fence of a Garden, and bounds of an Orchard: but never said it to be of absolute Jewel. Serm. on Iosh. 6.1, 2, 3. Dis­cipline is so need­full, that neither without it shall ye be able thorough­ly to discomfort those that seeke to build up Jericho, &c. necessitie, that there could be no Citie, Vineyard, Garden, or Orchard without it. But this in your judgement is broken-stuffe, not worthy any answer. For where doe they read, say Can. Neces. of Separat. pag. 151. you, in Scripture, that this power which Christ hath given to his Church, is compared to a wall, or hedge, &c. But rather it may be likened to the power of the body, which receiveth food, and thereby excrements are purged, and avoided, the want whereof were in nature prodigious, neither could the body possibly subsist and live. In the same page you take up D r Laiton roundly after your manner, for saying, that the Cypr. lib. 1. ep. 10. Concil. Carthag. 3. ca. 35. Gratian. de­cr. p. 3. dist. 2. cap. 95, 96. Bils. Christ. subject. part. 2. pa. 335. I do not mis­like that malefa­ctors of all kinds, not only drūkards, railers, perjurers, adulterers, usurers, and such like, but also theeves, robbers, ravishers, murderers, plagiaries, incendiaries, traytors and all other hai­nous offenders, when their lives be spared by Princes, should be driven to earnest and open repentance before they be received into the Church, or admitted to the divine mysteries: yea, rather I thinke it very needfull in a Christian Common-wealth, that God be pleased, and the Church preserved from all communion with these monstrous impieties, &c. want of an integrall part of the whole is no sufficient ground of Separation. He speakes, you say, as a man most ignorant of the nature of Church-power; for were he able truly to de­fine it, he should see that it is of such necessitie as a people can­not constitute themselves in the right order of the Gospell without it, as we have before expressed. Expressed it may be, but not proved by Scripture or reason, drawne from Scrip­ture. How palpably you abuse D r Ames testimony is shewed before, and it makes as plainly against your reason as a thing can be spoken. But that is broken-stuffe which pleaseth you not, and he is ignorant that applauds not your dictates. To be taunted and reviled, is answer sufficient to be given to us simple poore ignorants, who know not truely to define what Church-power is. But whether this stuffe be broken, or the Nonconformists ignorant what Church-power is or no: this is evident, your inferences in this point are not correspondent to their Principles, nor can be deduced from them, as in the beginning you promised: And then upon what bottome doth this reason stand, or by what prop is it underset, but your own bare affirmation, which is much too weake to beare so great a weight. Whosoever meanes ( Can. Neces. of Separat. pag. 210. you say) to settle well the conscience, especially in a maine point of faith and Religion, ought necessarily to bring good proofes from Scripture, for [Page 34]the things whereof he speaketh. For otherwise men must give no trust unto his words, or if they doe, it must be unadvised­ly. And what thinke you then, if men upon your bare word, give credit unto this argument, is it not unadvised? You bid Bilson difference, part. 1. pag. 20. What we say with­out proofe, reject you without an­swer. If that rule may stand we need no further confu­tation of the rest of your Apologie, for there (besides taunts & termes) I see nothing. prove the contrary, if any man be able. But that is not to ground the conscience upon Gods truth. If your assertion be not taught in holy Scripture, it is an unwritten tradition, an humane invention, a dreame of your owne, in your conceit, false worship, and flat Idolatry, though your opposites be a­ble to say nothing against it but this, that it is not taught of God.

What the Nonconformists will say to this argument you know not, but hitherto they have said nothing, or as good as nothing. It is well you say not both Propositions are theirs, as you doe in the former with as little truth, as if you had said it here. But if you had perused their writings against Separa­tion, as you have observed what sharp words they let fall a­gainst the corruptions in our Church and Liturgie, you might have knowne, that they say somewhat, and somewhat to the purpose, not worthy your answer, but what can never be tru­ly answered: First, Discipline, they say, is taken two wayes. First, Largely, for the whole order pertaining to the gathe­ring and governing of a Church, the ordering of divine wor­ship, and manner of men. And in this sense, Bilson, perpet. Ch. govern. cap. 1. pag. 3. Order and Discipline the ve­ry nurse and mo­ther of all peace and quietnesse, as well in divine as in humane Socie­ties, & assemblies, though it be not the life or spirit that quickneth the Church: yet doth it fasten and knit the members there­of, as joynts and si­newes do the parts of our bodies. Id. ca. 9. The Gospell must be preached, the Sacramēts must be frequented, for which purpose some must be taken to the publique service, and ministery of the Church, &c. Neither onely the lack of the Word and Sacraments, but the prophanation and abuse of either, how greatly doth it endanger the state and welfare of the whole Church of Christ? yea, the casting of holy things to dogs, and of pearles before swine, how dreadfull a judgement doth it procure, as well to the consenters as presumers? A little Leaven sowreth the whole masse: So that power to send Labourers into Gods harvest, and to separate pro­phane persons for defiling the mysteries and assemblies of the faithfull, must be retained and used in the Church of Christ, unlesse we will turne the house of God into a den of theeves, &c. Act. 2.41, 42.44, 45, 46, 47. & 11.20, 21.26. & 13.43.48. & 14.1.21, 22, 23. Discipline is neither the matter nor forme of the Church, but an insepara­ble propertie, and so there can be no Church without some Discripline. Secondly, It is taken strictly, for the administra­tion of the censures. in which sense, it is not absolutely ne­cessary to the being, but to the well-being and safetie of the Church. Secondly, They answer that by divine right the power of the keyes is given to every compleat, Apostolicall Church, but the execution of this power may be wanting, [Page 35]either through their negligence, or because they are hindred; as in Sardis, Thyatira, Ephesus, &c. And this is to the pur­pose, for the Question is of the power to execute the Disci­pline of Christ, and not of the simple right to execute it. And in your opinion the execution of Discipline is absolutely ne­cessary to the being of the Church, without which it can nei­ther be gathered, nor subsist. Take your owne comparison, unlesse the body doe both receive food, and purge out excre­ments, it is not possible it should subsist and live. If therefore Sardis, Pergamus, Thyatira, &c. continued the true Chur­ches of Christ, when the greater sort would not, and the bet­ter could not purge out excrements, or all were grossely neg­ligent, it followeth that the execution of discipline or power to execute discipline, is not absolutely necessary to the being of the Church. Thirdly, The Church of England wanteth not the discipline of Christ for substance either in respect of right or execution, though it be not administred as it ought. These are the Answers which they give, and they are too hea­vie to be spurned away with scorne, when ever you shall try their weight.

Thus I might dismisse your first band, as being put to flight already. But I will spend a little time to examine both pro­positions. And for the first it is to be noted, that the word Church (to let passe other significations) is taken: First, For the communitie of the faithfull few or many, two, three, or more, men or women, without guides or officers; for belee­vers dispersed and scattered by persecution, spoyled of their guides, or such as being newly called never had guides set o­ver them, are yet the true Church of Christ. Secondly, The societie of the faithfull, joyning together in the ordinances of worship under a lawfull Pastour is a true Church, though de­fective in many officers and ordinances required to the perfe­ction of the Church. Thirdly, A Bilson. ibid. ca. 1. The internall re­giment that God hath by his Spirit and truth in the hearts of the faith­full, is the true kingdom of christ, cannot be varied, is not questioned in the Church of England. But there is a necessitie also of externall gover­ment, which re­specteth the ap­pointing of meete men, and repelling of unmeete, to be trusted with the heavenly treasures of the Word and Sacraments. As al­so the good using and right dividing of so precious Iew­ells committed to their charge. competent number of faith­full people joyned in societie under lawfull Pastours, Tea­chers, and Elders, to watch over, rule, feed and guide them in the waies of God, are a true and compleat constituted Church of Jesus Christ.

The word Discipline also is used two wayes, as hath been said; First, In a larger sense, as comprehending all order and behaviour concerning a Church in outward duties, and so (among the rest) the daily planting and building by the cal­ling [Page 36]and offering of the Word by the Ministers, and the hear­ing, receiving, and obeying by the people. As military disci­pline is put for the whole art or manner of ordering Souldi­ers. Secondly, In a more strict signification it is the politicall guiding of the Church, and is exercised principally, if not onely in the Henry Ainsw. first answer, &c. pag. 30. Whereupon Christ pronounced a bles­sing, and annexed promises, not for himselfe, but (as you grant for his successours also, as I defend) for the other Apostles al­so. Ibid. Set you down by the scrip­tures, what is meāt by keyes, and I will shew you by Scrip­tures also, that the 12 Apostles had e­quall power in u­sing them. administration of Church censures; and this is that discipline which generally, all Ecclesiasticall Writers speake of. And this power likewise must be considered either in respect of right or the first act, as they call it, or in respect of execution and the second act.

These distinctions thus plainly propounded, the answer to the Proposition is distinctly this; First, If the word Discipline be taken in the largest acceptation, it is necessary to the Church, because no Societie can be held or gathered without some order. Secondly, If it be taken in the strictest significati­on, it belongeth not to the Communitie of the faithfull few or many. For the power of governing the Church belongeth to them primarily and in respect of use and execution, to Bils: Christ, Sub­ject. part. 2. p. 361. The Priest hath his Commission as a servant to call for subjection and o­bedience, not unto himselfe, but unto his Lord and Ma­ster that sent him, &c. who must preach himself, the servant of meaner men than Princes, and make himselfe the servant of all men, if he note wel the words of his Commission, &c. whom Christ hath communicated it. But Christ hath not gi­ven this power to the faithfull, few or more, but to his offi­cers, whom he hath appointed to feed and governe his folke. Thirdly, If a societie enjoy but one Pastour or Teacher for the time, the power of government doth not belong unto him. For Christ hath not committed this power unto one but unto many. The power of A dispute part. 3. c. 8. p. 188. We must distinguish a two­fold power of the keyes; the one Concionalis, the other Judicialis. The former is proper for Pastours alone, whose vocation it is by the preaching and publishing of Gods Word, to shut and open the Kingdome of heaven. The keyes of externall discipline belongeth to the whole Consistory. Trelcat. instit. Theol. lib. 2. pag. 287. preaching and administration of the Sacraments is given to one, and may be executed by him alone: But the power of guiding or governing is given to the Colledge Ecclesiasticall, or company of Governours, and must not be executed by any others. And if one alone may not challenge that which is committed unto a societie, it is not for one Pastour to excommunicate his people. And hence it followes necessarily, that discipline or power of go­verning or dispencing the keyes, is not absolutely necessary to the being of the Church. For if there may be a true Chri­stian Church without Pastours or Teachers, but not Pareus in 1 Cor. 5. de Excom. Eorum quae conveniunt Presbyteris, vi ordinis sui Presbyterialis, duo sunt genera: Alia enim imme­diatè conveniunt singulis personaliter: alia vero immediatè conveniunt, non quidem singulis personaliter, sed conjunctis collegialiter sive Presbyterio. Forb. Irenis. lib. 2. cap. 10. prop. 13. pag. 191. de prohibitis ordinantibus. power [Page 37]of the keyes or Ecclesiasticall government, then the power of government is not absolutely necessary to the being of a Church. And if the Presbytery be the onely executioners of the censuring discipline, then if the Church may be without a Presbytery, it may want the discipline in respect of executi­on. For where the Officer is wanting, there the office also is wanting as touching the execution thereof. If all the Officers of discipline should dye at once, or the Church should want her officers; the faithfull have not power of discipline either originally or actually, either to conveigh it virtually or for­mally to her Ministers, whom shee might chuse, or to execute it her selfe. But the faithfull doe remaine a Church, when her officers are Bilson. perp. go­ver. cap. 10. It is not to be doubted, that in the Apo­stles times every ci­tie where the Go­spell was received, had many Prophets Pastours and Tea­chers, not only tra­velling to and fro, to exhort and con­firme the brethren, but abiding & per­sisting in the same, all laboring to en­crease the number of the Church, &c. dispersed by persecution, taken away by death, be wanting through her negligence, or some other way. In your own way and constitution, the Church may be without both Pastour and Teacher, and that for a long time, till fit men may be chosen unto that office; in all which time it must want the administration of the Sacraments, and execution of discipline.

We have not learned, that every Christian is a King and a Prince, to rule with Bilson. perpet. go­ver. cap. 3. Exter­nall Regiment is no part of Christs Kingdome, which is proper to his person, and by ma­ny degrees excel­leth all other go­vernments, for the divine force and grace, that are emi­nent in the spiri­tuall fruits and ef­fects of his King­dome. Christ by open rebuke, if no other doe rebuke in season, or by debarring them from communion and fellowship of the Church, whom he judgeth or censureth worthy to be cast out, as men out of covenant. For if all that are made of Christ by communion with him Kings & Priests unto God, should be made Kings and Priests unto God in or­der politicall to rule and governe his Church, then power to governe should be given to every singular person,, not to the communitie alone, to women and children no lesse than unto men. The life and being of a Church standeth in the very knitting of the faithfull unto Christ: for it is Christ that gi­veth salvation to the body: And if union give it the forme of a Church, it must necessarily be a Church before it practice this discipline, because it hath no place but in an united body or Congregation. Those three thousand soules that were gained at one prosperous Act. 2.38.41, 42, 44, 45, 46, 47. Sermon of Peter, were the Church of God, when they received the Word with gladnesse, and were baptized, before any power of Government was given unto or established among them. The like is of the Act. 8.5, 6.11. & 9.31. Church, or Congregation of Samaria.

Fourthly, Of right the communicated power of govern­ment [Page 38]belongeth to every compleat Societie, or rather to every Ecclesiasticall colledge or assembly, set apart by Christ for the guidance of his people: but the execution of that power may be hindred through Zanc. de oper. re­dempt. in 4. praecep. de discipl. Eccles. If it be a small Church, and not consisting of many learned and skilful men, excommuni­cation ought not to be done, ex­cept the neighbour churches be asked counsell of. ignorance, negligence, unjust usurpa­tion, or the like. The right of government in Christs name belongeth unto them, because it flowes from the ordinance and constitution of Christ, as a proper adjunct which cannot be separated from the subject. But the action it selfe of govern­ment may be A disput. part. 3. c. 8. p. 189. When we teach that the Pastour or Pastours of every particular Church or congre­gation, with the Elders of the same, being met together have power to bind and loose: we un­derstand this one­ly of such places, wherein a compe­tent number of understanding and qualified men, may be had to make up an Eldership. hindred divers wayes, when the being of the Church is not destroyed. The Pastours and Teachers may be ignorant of their priviledges, and so give away that which of right belongeth unto them; or they may be negligent in the execution of their office, and not heedfully attend to the Mi­nistery committed unto them. The greater part may prevaile against the better, or some few may usurpe into their owne hands the power which belongeth unto the Societie, which being once gained cannot easily be regained or redeemed, in which cases the lawfull action of government is hindred, when yet the Church remaineth the true Church of Christ. Thus it hath been with the Ambros. in 1 Cor. cap. 5. The Apo­stle decreed that by the consent and in the presence of all men, hee should be cast out of the Church, &c. Church of God in all ages, ever since there was a Church upon the face of the earth. And from this fountaine have sprung the errors, abuses and corruptions, which have prevailed in the Church of God. For if Hieron. ad He­ [...]iodor. in Id. ad Re­parium advers. Vi­gilantium. disorders get head, of necessitie the action of government is some way hindred or neglected.

Now to your Assumption. First, Every particular August. contr. e [...]. Parm. lib. 3. c. 2. Socie­tie of beleevers in the Church of England, or singular Pastour of this or that Congregation hath not the power of govern­ment, neither doth it of right or by divine gift belong unto the communitie of the faithfull, or one singular Pastour. Se­condly, The power of Government as it consisteth in discern­ing betwixt the precious and the vile, admonishing the inor­dinate, and excommunicating the obstinate, is considered ei­ther in respect of the substance, parts and duties thereof, or in respect of the ordering and administration by such persons, and in such a course. This distinction must be granted or else all the Churches which administer discipline amisse in any circumstance at any time, must be charged to have no disci­pline at all; and they that commit the administration of disci­pline to persons in mens opinion not designed by Christ, not to have the discipline of Christ for substance: For example, [Page 39]they that commit the execution of discipline to the Presbyte­ry or Classis, have not the discipline of Christ, in the judge­ment of the Separation, because Christ (as they say) hath committed it to the communitie or body of the Societie. And they that commit the power of government to the Chrysost. in Math. Hom. 83. No small vengeance hangeth over your heads, if you suffer any hai­nous offender to be partaker of this Table. people or communitie joyntly with the Elders, in the judgement of re­formed Churches, have not the discipline of Christ, because he hath committed it to the Presbytery. And every act of go­vernment may be excepted against as a nullity, because in some circumstance or other the order prescribed by Christ is not fully observed. This then considered, the Church of England is not without the If any Prince would be baptized or approach to the Lords Table, with manifest shew of unbeliefe or irre­pentance, the Mi­nister is boūd free­ly to speak, and ra­ther to lay downe his life at the Prin­ces feet, then to let the King of Kings be provoked, the mysteries defiled, his own soule and the Princes endan­gered, for lacke of often and earnest admonition. discipline of Christ for substance, whether the word be taken largely or strictly, whether we respect right or execution; but the outward forme and ordering of the dis­cipline is not in all things according to the Word of God. I [...] by divine right the power of government belongeth, either to the societie of Church-governours, or the communitie of the faithfull, it belongeth also to the Pastours, Teachers, El­ders, Assemblies among us. As for the execution of discipline largely taken, all men know the Word is truely preached, and the Sacraments are duely and rightly Bilson Christian subj. part 2. p. 302. If you meane they may not minister the Sacraments un­to Princes, without faith & repentance which God requi­reth of men that shall be baptized, or have accesse to his Table, we grant they must rather hazzard their lives than baptize Princes which beleeve not, or distribute the Lords mysteries to them that repent not Bilson Christ. subj. part 3 p. 2. & part. 3. p. 248. If the Prince will not submit himselfe to the rules and precepts of Christ, but wilfully maintaine heresie & open im­purity, the Bishops are without flattery to reprove and admonish the Prince of the danger that is imminent from God, and if he persist, they must cease to communicate with him in divine prayer and mysteries. Bils. Ch. sub. part. 3. pag. 63, 64. 74. administred: and in what societie soever God is truely worshipped, of necessitie the discipline of Christ is in some sort observed. If we speake of discipline more strictly, all men know the Church of England by doctrine professeth, by Law hath established, and daily practiseth for substance, the execution of the very discipline of Christ. The ordering and administration of the censures as it is in the Church of England, is faultie and corrupt, and how the godly have laboured, according to their places, the re­dresse of that evill, is not unknowne to the world in part. But the want of due execution of discipline or disordered ad­ministration thereof, doth not argue the Church to want dis­cipline, but the due ordering of discipline, nor to be no Church, but to be defective and much out of order.

In the Church of the Jewes in the old Jer. 20.1.2, 3. & 29.26, 27, Mat. 10.17. Iude v. 4.7.8.10. Testament there was many times great neglect of discipline and abuse thereof. In [Page 40]the Churches of the New Testament, as in Corinth, Galatia, the Churches to which James and Jude wrote, and Rome, the execution of discipline could not take place, or was much neg­lected. Diotrephes usurped over the Church, and corrupted the discipline, when the Church continued the true Church of Christ, and the faithfull abode in that societie; This in­stance D r Ames truely alledged, to shew that the reprovers of abuses doe not lay the foundation of schisme or separation from the Church, which Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 163. you doe well to spurne at, because you know not how to remove it. For what if you doe not reade that Diotrephes was an unlawfull and Antichristian Mi­nister? you reade that he usurped over the faithfull, hindred the due execution of Church-censures, abused excommunica­tion, prated against the Brethren, and practised a false govern­ment. And if the want of discipline or neglect of due execu­tion, prove a Church to be no Church, the faithfull in that societie were bound to separate. If the Church had not the power of government at this time, (if we may beleeve you or receive your position) they were no church: if they had power in their hands, and suffered it to be abused, their sinne was the greater. And if you take a view of your dealings in this or o­ther particulars, vilifying what you are not able to confute, and wresting mens words contrary to their plaine meaning, if your paper blush not, I can hardly thinke but your consci­ence will smite.

SECT. II.

IF the Church of England hath not Christs keyes, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 154. shee is not his, saith M r D. But the Church of England hath not Christs keyes, saith M r Brightman and Syons plea. 111. others. Therefore shee is not his house, and consequently to be separated from.

ANSVVER.

YOur former reasons out of M r D. I passe over, because they have been answered already, and are here thrust in to no purpose, but onely to cover the insufficiency of your reply. His answer was, the want of discipline, though an in­tegrall part, is no sufficient ground of separation. This Can. Neces. of Se­parat. p. 152, 153. you offer not to disprove by any substantiall reason, but with rai­ling [Page 41]and reproach to disgrace, wherein whether you more wound your own conscience, or hurt your adversary, be judge your selfe. Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 212. 1 Pet. 3.9. Rom. 13.21. You say truely, It is a Christian part not to render rebuke for rebuke, and a thousand times better were it, to sustaine even a legion of reproaches, than for a man by turning (though but one) to give cause of suspition, that evill hath got some part of conquest over him. But if you looke into your own writings, you shall finde them stuffed with insolent boasting, scornfull taunts and reproaches, unbeseeming your place, person, and a good cause. I dare say, all the Nonconformists that ever wrote in the cause of discipline, never went in practise so much against their Principles, as you in this one particular, goe a­gainst your profession in the foresaid passage, and a good con­science.

The matter in hand betwixt you and M r D. is the absolute necessitie of Church-discipline to the being of a Church; To what end then doe you bring, That the Book of common-prayer used in the Assemblies of England, is an infectious Liturgie, Ro­mish-stuffe, a devised service, raked out of three Romish Channells? That the Ministery of the Church of England is unlawfull and Antichristian! That the Ministery, worship, and government of of England are corruptions! Doth this make ought to con­firme your position, or weaken the answer which was truely given? But some thing must be said, whether to or besides the purpose, it matters not.

Another stratageme Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 153. you put in practice in the same place, not very commendable. You would seeme to confute the D. out of himselfe. What say you, if it appeare that M r D. argu­ments, doe lead rather to separation, and that he speaketh one thing, and practiseth another; would not this be a strange sight, especial­ly, to himselfe? Now whether this be so, we will here try by some reasons in his owne moode and figure. But though the moode and figure be his, the reasons be your owne, and not his, and the conclusions unjustly drawne from the Premises, as the D. an­swered, and we have shewed before. Perhaps in warre strata­gems may be of use, but in the cause of God such cunning de­vices are dangerous symptoms. This I note, to entreat your serious reexamination of what you have done: and now I come to the argument here propounded, whereunto I make answer as you relate it, for I have not the D. Booke to search out what he hath written.

The power of the keyes is twofold, Concioualis & Judicia­lis, as it is usually called. The first consists in the preaching of the Gospell, wherein the kingdome of heaven is opened to the penitent, sinnes remitted, life promised, and heaven shut to the obstinate: which is the sword and the scepter of Christ, whereby he saveth his people, 2 Cor. 1.21. 2 Cor. 10.4. Isa. 11.4. Rom. 1.16. and conquereth his enemies, beateth downe every strong hold, p [...]ireeth to the division of foule and spirit, and of the joynts and marrow, and judgeth the very cogitations and thoughts of the heart. These effects Christ executeth by his Word, even when it is not assisted by the To excommuni­cate is to remove the wicked & irre­pentant from par­ticipation of the Lords Supper: least by sacrilegious pre­suming to violate that Table, the un­godly should con­demne themselves, and defile others. Bilson perpet. gov. cap. 9. discipline spoken of. Now if it be rightly understood, the Church of God cannot be without this key. For the Church is gathered by the Word, and is a company or socie­tie which hath received the Word in profession at least, and doth possesse it, and amongst whom it dwelleth. The Judiciall power of the Excommunicati­on is a meere spiri­tuall punishment, & reacheth no fur­ther by Gods word than to take from offenders the re­mission of their sinnes, by wanting the Word and Sa­craments, untill they repent. Bilson. Christian. part 3. pag. 52. keyes is the power of government, which con­sisteth principally in the right ordering and dispensation of Church censures, and so of the manners and necessities of all men: which agreeth not to any one member, nor to the com­munitie of the faithfull, nor to any one singular governour, but to the Ecclesiasticall Senate, yet with due respect had to the communitie of the faithfull. In the first sense, the Church of England hath the power of the keyes, Cyp. lib. 1. epist. 3. I hardly perswade the people, yea, I am forced to wrest it from them, before they will suffer such to be admitted. Bilson. perpet. gov. c. 9. Great reason had those godly Fathers to see the whole Church satisfi­ed, before they released the sentence of excommunication, &c. and so doing they shewed not what right the multitude had to sit Iudges with the Bishop, but what [...]e themselves had to remove from the people all occasions of stumbling. Id. pag. 113. If you take Excommunication for removing the unruly from the civill societie of the faithfull, untill they conforme themselves unto a more Christian course of life, I am not altogether averse, that the whole Church should concurre in that action, &c. See August. contr. Par, Ep. 1, l. 2. ca. 1. Can. Stay, Sect. 12. pag. 123. not so much as is to be desired, but in an eminent sort; and that with Gods bles­sing upon the labour of his servants, if any other Church un­der Heaven. In the second signification, the power of the keyes for substance is in our Church, but the manner of ordering and administration of them is corrupt and faultie. But this power of the keyes is not of absolute necessitie to the being of the Church, but to the well-being onely. Here is a fit place to answer your Question: Whether to hide from the people the knowledge of all the maine truths, which concerne the out­ward regiment of Christs visible church, make a false Prophet.

It would be knowne what you call maine truths, which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible Church. The power of government is proper and communicated: Pro­per, that which Christ hath reserved peculiar to himselfe, and is executed according to his infinite wisdome, by the secret hand of his divine power, and the effectuall worke of his holy Spirit, making the word of exhortation and reproofe, com­fort and instruction, to some the savour of life unto life; whence followeth effectuall answering to their calling, rejoy­cing, comfort, and growing up to perfection. Not to mention further, how he succoureth the godly, bestoweth some gifts, (though not such as accompany Salvation) upon the wicked; bridleth, curbeth and confoundeth his enemies. His commu­nicated Government is that which being limited within the compasse of certaine Lawes and Canons of his holy Word; he hath committed to be exercised and executed in and by So­cieties, according to his appointment. The chiefe and princi­pall meanes Christ useth here, is the preaching of his Word, whereby he saveth his people, and conquereth his enemies. The discipline is as a Chariot for the Word to ride upon, and to keepe other ordinances from contempt; but it is not the most ordinary or mighty meanes of Christs government or administration of his Kingdome.

These things being thus, The Ministers of the Gospell are to teach the people the maine grounds and chiefe heads of Christian Religion, even all things necessary to salvation in respect of faith and manners, otherwise they stand guilty of the bloud of soules. They are to teach them also what the Lord hath instituted for the well-ordering of his house, but in season, order, and as they are able to beare it. It is not for men to set up the roofe, before they have laid the foundation. Ex­perience for many yeares hath taught us, that divers who have much busied themselves in the doctrine of Church-govern­ment, have been unable to make Some deny the use of excōmuni­cation among the Jewes. Bils. per­pet. Ch. gov. c. 4. The Scribes and Pharises (you will say) did in Christs time excommunicate, and thrust out such as they thought offenders, out of their Synagogues: But the Pharises never learned that out of Moses. A separation of the Leaper from the compa­ny of men, and of uncleane for comming neere holy places or things, Moses prescribeth, but not excommunication, that I remember, &c. Aliens were not admitted to be of the number of the Lords people; and any uncleannesse of the flesh did separate for a season, the Jewes them­selves from approaching neere to the Congregation or Tabernacle of God: but neither of these is excommunication, &c. So in the use of excommunication in the Christian Church, &c. and many such like. use of that which they have [Page 42] [...] [Page 43] [...] [Page 44]learned from others. If I should bring your selfe for instance, who have received many good truths from the writings of the Nonconformists, but miserably pervert them to your owne hurt, the disturbance of Gods Church; scandall of the Gospel, and the strengthning of such as are turned aside into dange­rous errours; I should not much misse the marke, and you have more cause to take heed than to be offended. Also godly men, who follow the truth in love, may be of different minds in these things, and for men to hide that from the people, whereof they are not perswaded that it is the truth of God, is not the note of a false Prophet.

Moreover, Those things which you call maine truths, con­cerning the externall government of Christs visible Church, may justly be questioned, whether they be truths at all. If I may conjecture by your writings, the maine truths you in­tend are such as these; That power of Church-government is absolutely necessary to the being of a Church; That all stin­ted or set-formes of prayer or Liturgie, are forged or devised worship; That there is no lawfull Minister, who is not cho­sen, called, or ordained by that particular Congregation, where he is to administer; That the Minister of one congre­gation may performe no ministeriall act in another; That the power of Government is in the communitie of the faithfull, and from them derived unto the Pastours, Teachers, or Elders, &c. These and the like are the maine truths in your esteeme, which I conceive have no bottoming in the holy Scripture. And if the Nonconformists, or some other, should aske of you this Question, whether to teach such points as maine truths necessary to salvation, and to condemne all Churches who conforme not to your platforme, as false and Antichristian, and their worship as false and idolatrous; and whether to wrest and abuse Scriptures, and pervert Authors to that pur­pose, make you not a false Prophet, consider advisedly what ound and satisfying answer you could returne.

SECT. III.

BEfore [...]e proceed to another point, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. p. 159, 160. we may here frame this ar­gument; If the professors of the Gospell in England, have not among them a true Church-government, but are under that which came from the great Antichrist, then are they bound to set up the [Page 45]ordinance of God, and practice it, no withstanding the Magistrate doe forbid the said practice. But the professors of the Gospell in England, have not among their a true Church-government, but are under, &c. Therefore they are bound to set up the ordinance of God and to practice it, notwithstanding the Magistrate doth for­bid the said practice. These are both their owne. positions, and so soundly proved; that no man living is able to confute theus.

ANSVVER.

IF your meaning be as the ordinary signification of the words import, it is not to the purpose, for it is one thing in our owne persons to practice according to the ordinance of Christ, another, to separate from that societie, which doth not practice in all things according to the institution of our Saviour. But you give cause to thinke, that by these words (erecting this power, and exercising the same among them) you meane, that they are to separate and draw themselves in­to such a societie, where they may exercise that power. For thus you write; I doe not meane, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 155. that any private person should meddle with the affaires of the Realme, but that every one in his owne person, doe place himselfe about the throne of God, leaving the abuses of the publique State [...], to be reformed by such as have a calling thereto. And if this be your minde in that clause, you greatly wrong the Nonconformists, and reformed Churches, in charging them with this position. For it is their direct as­sertion to the contrary, that for want of orderly administra­tion of discipline, Christians are not to separate from the true and sound Churches of Jesus Christ. Your phrase likewise of placing themselves about the throne of God, is in no sort ap­proved of them, or of the truth it selfe: As if none were placed about the throne of God, or God did not graciously vouch­safe his presence unto, or reigne over any assembly, wherein discipline is not rightly and orderly in all points admini­stred.

But here it must be noted, that the power of government must be considered, either in respect of the substance of it, or the orderly manner of administration, as was said before. And a thing or office is called Antichristian in two respects. First, as whatsoever is not of Christ is Antichristian; in which sense, they of the Separation call all stinted Liturgies Anti­christian. [Page 46]Secondly, as that which is derived from the autho­ritie and headship of the great Antichrist of Rome, and de­pendeth upon him as his owne institution, is Antichristian. And to apply these things to the purpose; if we take the word Antichristian, in the first signification, the true Church of God may be under Antichristian government, in respect of the manner of dispensation of the censures, that is, the dispensa­tion of the censures may be committed to such persons as are not instituted, approved, and set apart of Christ for that pur­pose, and in such manner. As if it be committed to an usur­ped power over the Brethren, or to some few of many, or to such as be ignorant, prophant, or the like.

It is true, the light hath no fellowship with darknesse, nor truth with falshood: but in this life light in men is miked with darknesse, and the best Christians infected with errours of Antichristianisme. In many of the Martyrs of Jesus Christ, both before & since the revelation of Antichrist, their know­ledge was mingled with more darknesse, and their Christia­nitie with more antichristianisme, if you will so call it, than can be found in our Church and Ministery. Jos. 5.7.9. See Iun. annot. It is true, the faithfull must labour every one in his place to bring in the ordinances of God, and reforme abuses; but if they cannot prevaile, they must not cut themselves off from the body, and excommunicate the societie. For if the Church may want, yea, neglect the use of the Sacraments for a time, and yet con­tinue the true Hieron. in Tit. 1. Amb. in 1 Tim. 5. Bils. perpet. c. 11. Gratian. Decret. cap. 15. qu. 7. ca. 2.5, 6, 7. Concil. Tu­ron. 2. c. 7. Nic. Ab­bas, Panor. in de­cret. Gregor. 9. de consuetud. cap. 4. Olim presbyteri in communi regebant ecclesiā, & ordina­bant Sacerdotes. Cypr. epist. 6. or lib. 3. epist. 10. & lib. 1. epist. 9. Concil. Carthag. 4. ca. 23. Tho. 1. [...] qu. 71. art. 5. ad tertium. Bonav. in 1 sent. dist. 48. art. 2. qu. 1. in resol. Scor. in 3 sent. dist. 9. qu. unica n. 4. Church of God, then it may want the orderly use of discipline in respect of the officers, by whom, and the manner how it should be duely exercised. For the politicall guiding of a Church by the censuring discipline, is not to be compared to the want & neglect of the Seales. If the Church shall thinke good to keepe in a member, which some private man judgeth worthy to be excommunicated, must he cut off himselfe, or cast out the offender contrary to the order. If the Power of government be exercised by the whole body of the Societie, which I conceive to belong onely to the Colledge Ecclesiasticall, must I needs separate from them as no Church of Christ?

Affirmative precepts binde perpetually, but not to all times; to disposition and readinesse alwayes, but to practice, onely, when time, place, and opportunitie occurreth. For example, a man is ever obliged to thinke the truth, if he know it, but [Page 47]not either to professe or speake the truth at all times. Of affir­mative duties, some are absolutely necessary in men of age and discretion, without which there can be no salvation, as beliefe in Christ, and repentance from dead works. Others are necessary when God giveth Neither doe I know what war­rant any ordinary Minister hath by Gods word in such a case, so to draw any such Church or people to his pri­vate ministry, that therby they should hazzard their out­ward state & quiet in the Common­wealth where they live, when in some cōpetent measure, they may publike­ly with the grace and the favour of the Magistrate, in­joy the ordinarie means of their sal­vation. Vnreasona. &c. pag. 61. Aug. epist. contr. Parm. lib. 3. cap. 2. Bezacontr. Eras. de Excom. Feild of the Ch [...]. lib. 1. cap. 17. Eccl. Lugdun. lib. de tenenda verit. script: post medium in Biblioth. patr. tom. 4. par. 2. edit. 4. opportunitie, and calleth a man forth thereunto; as profession of the faith, by joyning our selves to the Church of God, and partaking of the Sacra­ments. Others oblige in a time free, which doe not oblige in a time not free, as when urgent necessitie, the circumstance of time and place, the state and condition of things doe restraine and keepe backe. As the exercise of Ecclesiasticall discipline against open obstinâte offenders, is an affirmative dutie, im­posed by divine law upon the Governours of the Church, or (as you say) upon the whole Societie. But it lyeth not upon this or that particular member to doe it, or separate, when o­thers be remisse, and either be not perswaded of, or doe neg­lect their dutie, and will not be drawne unto it. They be not of the lowest ranke who thinke it may and ought to be for­borne, when it cannot be used without open and unavoidable schisme. When a doctrinall errour of lesse importance and small evill consequence prevaileth in a Church, by publique authoritie, it is not the dutie of a private Teacher publiquely to strive against it, to manifest & apparent schismes, but rather in a milde and peaceable manner to cure them, and peaceably to tolerate some things, when the good of Gods Church doth call for and require it. Who doth not calmely and peaceably moderate that which he thinketh, but is readie incontinent to contentions, dissentions, and scandals, although he have not an hereticall sense, most certainly he hath an hereticall minde. And though the The Apostleane­ver erected & plan­ted publike Chur­ches and Ministers in the face of the Magistrate, whe­ther they would or no, or in despite of them. But such in respect of the eye of the Magistrate, were as private as might be. Vnreaso­nablenesse of Separat. pag. 59. Government of the Church dependeth up­on the ordinance of God, yet it is not for every particular and private man to set up that order in societies, professing the faith publiquely and established by Law, against the mind and pleasure of the Christian Magistrate. And this the Nor [...] ­formists doe both teach and practice, and therefore they have humbly sued for reformation, but never either practised or approved your separation. That which you cite out of the Harmony of confessions, as if the reformed Churches did al­low or teach what you practice, I will set downe, and leave it [Page 48]to every man to judge of your fidelitie. The Church Gallic. confest. art. 26. None but Princes can give freedome and pro­tectiō to these spi­rituall functions and actions. Bil­son. Christian part 2. pag. 309. Gallican saith thus; Credimus igitur nemi [...] licer [...], sese catibus subducer [...], & in seipso aequiescere, sed patius [...] s [...]il tuendam & con­servandam esse Ecclesiae unitatem, sese communi institutioni & ju­go Christi subijciendo, ubjcun (que) Deus ver [...]n illam disaiplinam Ecclesiastio [...]n constistuerit, etiamsi Magistratuum edicta recla­ment, à quo oxdi [...] quicubque seipsos sei [...]gunt) ordinationi Dei resistant. Psal. 5. & 42. Ephes. 4.11. Act. 4.19. & 5.29. Heb. 10.25. And the Belgic. confess­art. 28. Without the helpe of Prin­ces, though the faith and Canons of Christs Church may bee privately professed and ob­served of such as be willing, yet can they not be gene­rally planted, or setled in any king­dome, nor urged by publique Lawes & externall punish­ments on such as refuse, but by their cōsents that beare the sword. Bils. ibid. pag. 327. Id. part 3. pag. 296. If you will have the assistance of the Magistrates sword to settle the truth and prohibites errour, and by whole­some punishments to prevent the disorder of all degrees, that authoritie lieth onely in the Prince. Belgick thus; Credimus qued cum sa­cer hic caetus & congregatio, sit corum qui servari debent, & salus nulla sit extra eam: neminem (cujuscun (que) dignitatis aut nomini [...] is fuerit) sese ab ea-subducere aut segregari debere, ut sua tantu [...] consu [...]tudine contentus solus, ac separatim vivat. Sed con [...]a [...] ­ [...]es as singulos teneri huic caetui se adjungere, & Ecclesiae unita­tem sollicitè conservare, se (que) illius tum doctrinae tum disciplinae sub­jicere, collum deni (que) Christi jugo sponte submittere, & tanquan [...] communia ejusdem corporis membra adificationi fratrum inser­vire, prout Deus unicui (que) sua dona fuerit largitus. Porro ut haee melius observentur, omnium fidelium partes sunt, sese juxta Dei verbum ab eis omnibus disjungere, qui sunt extra ecclesiam con­stituti: huic (que) fidelium caetui ac congregationi; sese adjungere, ubicun (que) illam Deus constituerit: et si id contraria principum vel Magistratuum edicta prohibeant, indicta etiam in eos capitis & mortis corporcae poenâ, qui id fecerint. Quicun (que) igitur à vera illa Ecclesia recedunt, aut sese illi aggregare recusant, apertè Dei mandato repugnant. Thus the Conclusion.

CHAP. IV.

SECT. I.

ALL true visible Churches gathered and planted accor­ding to Gods Word, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 173. consisted in their constitution of Saints onely: But the Churches of England after Po­pery were not so constituted. For the greatest number of them were prophane people, even mockers and contemners of Religion, as A­theists, Idolaters, Sorcerers, Blasphemers, and all sorts of miscre­ants and wicked livers. Therefore the Churches of England are not true visible Churches. There is never a part of this argument they can deny, unlesse they will let fall their owne principles. For the Assumption I make no question, but it will passe without ex­ception, and none of them will have the face to oppose it, conside­ring how generally the thing hath beene affirmed, and still is upon all occasions both in word and writing. Now that the proposition may appeare as true also, I will prove the same; first, by Scrip­tures; secondly, by reason; thirdly, by the testimonies of the learned.

ANSVVER.

IF both parts of this Argument be Nonconformists princi­ples, why doe you labour to prove the proposition true, more than the assumption? If it had been a confessed princi­ple, why doe you not fight against them with their own wea­pons, as you pretend to doe throughout your Booke. He is very dull, that doth not smell somewhat herein. But if it so please you, The proposition is the Nonconformists, and it is not. For if this be the meaning thereof, That all true Chur­ches should consist of visible Saints, not onely in their first ga­thering, planting, and constitution, but also in their after continuance and propagations, the Nonconformists doe ac­knowledge it; for when sinne and wickednesse springeth or groweth in the Church, the ordinance of God is violated. But if this be the meaning; That the societie which consisteth not of Saints onely, is not the true Church of Jesus Christ, that the Nonconformists utterly deny. Also it is one thing to [Page 50]say, The Hieron. Prefar: lib. 2. in Epist. ad Galat. Rursus fa­cilitatis & super­biae arguunturs Id. ad princ. Marcelle. Epitaph. Difficile est in maledicâ ci­vitate, non aliquā sinistri rumoris fa­bulam contrabere. Id. in Praefat. in lib. Dydimini. Sp. Sa. Cum Babylone versarer, & pur­puratae meritricis essem colon [...], &c. Church is not planted and gathered in all things according to Gods Word; another to say it is no Church at all, which is not planted and gathered in all things agreeable to the Word of God. If then the meaning of the proposition be this; That all true Churches planted and gathered accor­ding to Gods Word, consisted of Saints onely, because the or­dinance of God is violated, and his house polluted; [...] no­torious offenders are received or tolerated; the No [...]confor­mists will acknowledge it: But if you understand it thus; That it is no true Church at all, which consisteth not of Saints onely, because it is not gathered, planted, constituted, refor­med in all things agreeable to the Word of God, they never received it. If you could not discerne this in their writings, you were very blinde and partiall. If you did discerne it and yet would passe it over, that you might with some colour tra­duce them as going contrary to their owne principles, or be­guile others with an aequivocation, where was your sincerity? The Nonconformists will not deny, but some things in the gathering and planting, or rather the refining and govern­ment of the Church of England was and is done amisse, not agreeable to the Word of God, which they heartily desire and labour might be reformed; but for things done amisse, they dare not condemne the Church, deny the grace of God, separate from her communion, or approve them that doe it. It may be questioned also, whether you dare not put a tricke upon your Reader in the phrase, gathered and planted, as if a church in continuance might consist of such as are not Saint [...]; but if it be not gathered of such onely at the first, it is no Church. If this be your close intendment, the proposition is farre from truth, the minde of the Nonconformists, and the matter in hand: for in the reformation a new Church was not planted, but a corrupt Church refined or purified. And thus I might passe over that which followeth in your next Section, because every man may easily perceive it reacheth not to the point in hand, but that you should not complaine as if your reasons were neglected, I will follow you therein.

SECT. II.

IF we take a strict view of all the Churches which the Lord hath constituted since the beginning of the world, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag, 174. it will appeare, that [Page 51]at the orderly gathering and planting, the members of them were all holy and good. I here intend of visible and externall holinesse, and so farre as me [...] may judge, and not of that which is within, and hid from us. For I doubt not, but in Gods sight the purest Con­gregation on earth, might consist at first of good and bad, and yet of men, every person to be judged truely faithfull and sanctified, untill any one by his iniquitie (outwardly committed) appeared otherwise. Not to speak of the Church of the Angels, Dr. Feild of the Church, p. 3, 4. &c. 2 Pet. 2.4. Iude 6. Eccl. 7.29. which God created in heaven, and were all good and holy, till some by trans­gression fell away. Neither of it in Paradise, consisting of two per­sons, and both true beleevers. After the fall the constitution of the first, Church, in the covenant of grace, was of good matters, and such was the Lorde care to have the puritie of it still preserved, that he th [...]st out Cain from the same, for the great wickednesse which he fell into. The Lord gave not Circumcision to Abraham, Gen. 12.1. & 17. Rom. 4.11.10.15.19. 2 Pet. 1.4. Psal. 45.11. Revel. 18.4. 2 Cor. 6. the seale of the righteousinesse of faith, untill he left his Fathers house, and that idolatrous place wherein he had lived; which signi­fieth to us, that all men must necessarily come out of the world, and from worldly corruptions, or else they are uncapable to have a Church covenant in Christ, confirmed unto them of Cod. As for the visible Churches planted by the Apostles, it is evident, that in their collection, they consisted of such and none other, as were cal­led by the Gospell, confessed their sinnes, beleeved, walked in the spirit, and separated themselves from the false state, in which they stood members before. Such a beginning had the Congregations in Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colosse, Thessa­lonica, &c. And who dares affirme, that there was one man or woman admitted a member at the constitution of any of these chur­ches, which had been known to be an ill liver, and did not first ma­nifest sound repentance thereof.

ANSVVER.

VVHen you speake of visible Churches, and visible and externall holinesse, so farre as men can judge, it is to small purpose to mention the Church of Angels in heaven. For the Church whereof you intreat, is a societie of men, holy in profession, and outward conformitie, but not evermore in truth, whereas the societie of Angels (if it be comprehended under the Church) is invisible and perfectly holy. I speake of them as they were by creation, and of as many as stood in [Page 52]their integritie, who onely are to be understood by that title.

It is to as little purpose, to speake of the Church in Para­dise in the state of innocency: For the Church understood in this pr [...]sent businesse, consists of men considered in the estate, which they now have promised by God being made man: or man fallen by sinne and restored by Christ, who too [...]e them by the hand and lifted them up. That is properly the Church, which was gathered after man fallen, and is restored in Christ, which as it is visible consisteth of good and bad, as you say. But the Church in the state of innocency, consisted of such onely as were created of God, perfectly holy, as befitted such creatures, untill by transgression they fell from their integri­tie. The state of the Church which we must enquire into, is that which God hath gathered, planted, constituted, preser­ved, continued and propagated since the fall of man.

After the Fall, God entred into Covenant with our first Pa­rents, Adam and Eve, who received the promise, and were partakers of the good things promised. Their seed also was within the Covenant, untill they did discommon themselves; and so Cain and Abel as members of the visible Church offe­red Sacrifice: In phrase of Scripture therefore Cain was a Saint in profession; but whether he had given testimony of sound and true holinesse, so farre as man could judge, is more than can be proved. 1 Ioh. 3.12. Iude 11 verse. The Scripture saith plainly, He was of that wicked one, and therefore slew his brother. And if no man suddenly become desperately wicked, it is probable Cain had given no great fignes of pietie in former times. Afterwards many and great corruptions came into the Church, when the sonnes of God tooke unto them wives of the daughters of men, Gen. 6.2. See Rivet. in Gen. exercitat. 50. whom they would: and it is strange to imagine all the members of the visible Church in those times to be visible Saints in con­formitie, Gen. 9.24, 25. so farre as man can judge. The Church of God con­tinued in the family of Noah, wherof Cham remained a mem­ber, after the sentence denounced against Canaan: In this Church therefore all visible members, were not visible Saints, so farre as man can judge. Gen, 10.1, 2, &c. The world after the Deluge was re­plenished by the sonnes of Noah, and the Church of God was conserved in their families, perhaps in the family of Cham, and Canaan his youngest sonne, at least for a time. [...] Gen. 14.18. Heb. 7.6. For it is probable that Melchizede [...], King of Salem, was some King [Page 53]of Canaan in stock diver from the Hebi [...]wes, of the posteritie of Cannan, who planted in those parts, whom God did pre­serve in the midst of an ungodly people. And the promise of God made to the posteritie of Sh [...], and so of Abraham; did not exclude all other familie [...] from communion of pietie and godlinesse. Jun: annot. in Gen. 14.18. Cal­vin in loc. Mercer. in loc. Nulla pror­sus ratione nitun­tur, qui Semil cum Melchilsedeco con­fundunt. & proba­bilissinum est, id à Iudaeis fuisse ex [...] ­gitatum, quia non aequo animo fere­bant, hominem a­lienigenam autori gentis suae aliqua in re fuisse praela­tū. Rivet. in Gen. exercit. 77. [...] Gen. 10.16. Gen. 14.24. v. 13. Gen. 20.5. 9, 10.14, 15. Apparet autem in responsione Abime­lechi, non fuisse ho­minem impium, vel ō [...] cognitione. Dei destitutum. Nam Deum loquentem agnoscit, &c. Ri­vet. in Gen. exer­cit. 100, 101. See Psal. 18.21.25. 2 Sam. 22.21. Psal. 73.13. Rom. 4.11. Gen. 17.12, 13.23. Rivet. in Gen. 17. Chamier. panstrat. tom. 4. lib, 5. cap. 11. At that time we may well [...] were some others in the Land of Canaan, who did [...] wou [...]d worship the [...] Goth. For not [...] mention A [...]er, Eskel, and [...] with Abrah [...], at that time a [...] in the La [...]d, with whom they [...] not have [...] covenant, it is pro­bable, if they had beene grosse Idolaters, without all known­ledge of the true religion; [...] King of [...] his fault) carried himself [...] businesse of A­braham, as a man not altogether destitute of the true stare of God.

That the true Religion was maintained in the family of Sh [...], is acknowledged by all sorts, but in that family it was greatly corrupted: for the Scripture testifieth, that [...] the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and Abraham himself before his calling served other Gods. J [...]sh. 24.2. The Church of God did spread in the family of Abraham; to whom God gave Circumcision, as the seale of the righte­ousnesse of faith: but the members thereof, were as well they that were bought with his money, as they that were borne in his house. For so we reade that God commanded, and Abra­ham tooke Ismael his sonne, and all that were borne in his house, and all that were bought with his money, that is; eve­ry man childe among the men of Abrahams house, and he cir­cumcised the foreskin of their flesh. Not onely Abraham and his seede, but all that lawfully appertained unto him, and were in his power, did partake of the seale of the covenant, as such as formerly had been, or now were received into cove­nant. And by analogie we may gather, that not onely the children of beleeving parents, but of Infidels, if they come lawfully into the power and hand of Christians to be trained and brought up by them in the Christian faith, ought to be admitted into Baptisme. Now in what sense, Ismael and some others in Abrahams family might be esteemed holy, [...] others judge. Esau was a member of Isaacs family, which was the visible Church of God in those times, Gen. 25.31, 32, 33. Heb. 12.19. after that he had sold sold his birth right for a [...]esse of pottage, and many other [Page 54]wayes had discovered himselfe so to walke, as a man could hardly judge him to be truely holy. Gen. 35.22. & 49.3, 4, 5, 6, 7. & 34.25. & 38.25, 26. The family of Jacob was received into covenant, according to the pleasure and dispen­sation of God, and all his sonnes were members of the visible Church, when foule offences were amongst them unrepented of. Gen. [...]7.2. Sept. [...]. detr [...] eos crimine malo. Not to mention the facts of Ruben, Simon, and Levi, and J [...]dah, it is noted of the sonnes of Zilpah and [...]ilkah, that they runne into slander, whereof we cannot thinke they repeated suddenly. Joseph his Brethren conceived such hatred against him, that they first conspired to kill him, but changing their minds therein, they sold him unto the Is [...]elites. The whole body of Israel was a peculiar people, Lev. 20.24. Sept. [...]. of whom every one was by the word of God separated into the covenant of mercy: and if the whole Nation was the people of God, every parti­cular person in that Nation did stand under the same relation. But what the state and condition of that people was when they were admitted into Church covenant, wee may learne from the holy Scripture.

When I passed by thee I saw thee polluted in thine owne bloud, Ezek. 16.6.8. and I said unto thee when thou wast in thy bloud, Thou shalt live; even when thou wast in thy bloud I said unto thee, Thou shalt live. Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee behold, thy time was as the time of love, and I spread my skirts over thee, and cove­red thy filthinesse: yea, I sware unto thee, and entred into cove­nant with thee, 1 Reg. 8.53. Sept. [...]. saith the Lord God, and thou be [...]amest [...]. When God brought Israel out of Aegypt by the hand of Mo­ses his servant, he separated them to himselfe, from among all the people of the earth, Act. 7.38. for an inheritance: and every singular person in that huge multitude was a visible, member of that Church, Exod. 32.8, 9.22. Deut. 4.3. & 9.7, 8. Psal. 106.7.13, 14.19, 2 [...].28. Num. 14.22. Act. 7.39, 40, 41, 42. Amos. 5.25, 26. Josh. 5.7, 8, 9. Deut. 29.4. and all of them by profession Saints or holy, the flock of God. But oftentimes they sinned and rebelled against the Lord, being a stubborne and stiffe-necked, people, uncir­cumcised in heart, unbeleeving, forgetfull of Gods workes, despising his covenant, idolatrous, which had neither eyes to see, nor eares to heare, nor an heart to under stand. And what probabilitie is there, that this whole people was truely holy in the judgement of charitie, or so fa [...]re as man can judge, or that they ceased to be the Church of God; when they had grossely corrupted their wayes? If the true Church be gathe­red of Saines onely (externally and so [...] as man [...] judge) and of them alone framed, at of the subject [...]: which is [Page 55]onely true, whilest it [...] such, and false when it de­generate [...] from this disposition [...], and so as [...] and p [...]trified stuffe to [...] cast out of the [...] let it be considered how the Congregation in the Wildernesse could be the true Church of God, which so oft, [...], Act. 7.38. and in many particular sinned against the Lord. It is more true, Exod. 24.3.7. the Church and every mem­ber thereof outred into Covenant, either expresly or impli­citely to take God for their God, and to keepe the words of the Covenant, and doe them: to seeke the Lord with all their hearts, and to walke before him in truth and uprightnesse. Deut. 29.4. But Moses saith of them that entred into Covenant, that they had not eyes to see, nor eares to heare, nor an heart to under­stand, and with many of them God was displeased, because they obeyed not his v [...]y [...]e. Deut. 29.10, 11, 12. Yee stard this day all of you (saith Moses) before the Lord your God, your Captaines of Tribes, your El [...]ers, and your Officers, with all the men of Israell: your little ones, your [...]ives, and thy stranger that is in thy Ca [...]p; from the [...] of thy wo [...]d, to the [...] of thy water, That thou should [...] [...]nto the Covetant [...] the Lord thy God, &c. But he testifieth against them also, Deut. 32.5, 6.15, 16. that they had corrupted them­selves, that their spot was not the spot of his children; that they were a froward and perverse generation, a foolish people, and [...] ­wis [...], who forso [...]ke God that [...] them, and regarded not the strong God of their salvation. Iosh. 5.5, 6, 7. Joshua circumcised all the people which were borne in the Wildernesse (for all that time that Sacrament was neglected) and his fact is approved. But we reade not of any inquiry that was made of all that great mul­titude, what worke of grace God had wrought in every mans soule, and it is very improbable, that there was not one who did not give good hope of sound and true cleaving unto the Lord with all his heart. Psal. 78.55, 56, 57. When God had cast out the Heathen before them, and caused them to fall to the lot of his inheri­tance, and made the Tribes of Israel to dwell in their Taber­nacles, they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies, but turned backe and dealt falsly like their Fathers. they turned like a deceitfull Bow.

Israel then was a chosen people, an holy nation, Deut. 14.23. & 29, 10, 11, 12. Rom. 3.2. & 9.4. Act. 3.25. Deut. 32.5, 6. Isa. 1.1, 2, 3, 4.10. the pecu­liar people of God, his treasure of delight or choice jewells; a people in Covenant; the children of the Prophets, and of the Covenant; and yet a stiffenecked people, corrupters, set on mischiefe, foolish and unwise. The Lord protesteth that Israel [Page 56]did rebell against him, that they did not understand but were a most sinfull Nation, ye [...] [...] and Gomor [...]ah, yet he calleth them his people and [...] passing Socleome in iniquitie, Ezek. 16.47, 48, 49.51. Lam. 4.6.22. Isa. 5.1, 2, 3.5. Iere. 2.21. Ios. 24.1.14, 15.23, 24, 25. Iudg. 2.8.11. & 3.9.15. & 6.7. & 10.10.16.17. 1 Sam. 7.2, 3, 4. 1 Chron. 13.2. &c. 2 Chron. 15.12. 2 Reg. 11.17. 2 Chron. 25.16. 2 Reg. 23.3, 2 Chron. 34.31. Neh. 10.29, 30. and yet the daughter of his people, and the daugh­ter of Zion, his pleasans plant, and a noble Vine.

We reade oftentimes that Israel after some grievous fall and requit, renewed their covenant to walke with God; and serve him onely, and to obey his [...]oyce; [...] the dayes of Joshu [...], Judges, Samuel, David, Aso, Ju [...]sh, Josiah, Nehemi [...]h, &c. But herein particular scrutin [...]e was not made, what worke of grace God had wrought in the hearts of particular persons, [...] the confession of finne, and profession of obedience was renewed. And if the looke into the state of [...] all ages of that Church, and particularly under these religio [...]s and godly Princes, by whose authoritie the Covenant was re­newed, it will easily appeare, many did but flatter with their [...]ips, neither was their heart stedfast in the covenant. The Pro­phets every where cry out against the great iniquitie of the Princes, Priests, and people, their idolatry, injustice, oppres­sion, contempt of the Word, impenitency, st [...]bornnesse, so that it is superfluous diligence, to referre to the severall passa­ges which mention these things.

When John the Baptist began to preach the Gospell, Matth. 3.5, 6. and gather a new people for Christ, he admitted none to Baptisme but upon confession of their sinnes, which was both a renoun­cing of them, and a promising of amendment of life. But we finde not that he repulsed any that voluntarily submitted themselves, nor tooke time for tryall, whether they made nonfession in truth of heart, or no. It appeareth many wayes, that when the Apostles planted Churches, Act. 2.38. & 8.37. & 19, 17, 18, 19. the people whom they received did enter into Covenant with God: But it is di­ligehtly to be observed, whom they did receive upon confessi­on of sinnes and profession of faith, and whom they suffered after they were received. Simon Mag [...]s. beleeved and was bap­tized, Act. 8.13. 1 Cor. 3.1, 2, 3. & 15.10.11. &c. Gal. 3.1. Phil. 2.21. Iude 12 verse. Iac. 2.1, 2, 3. Rev. 2.14.20, &c. who not long after offered money that he might ob­taine the gifts of the holy Ghost. In Corinth Galatina and o­ther Churches, many were admitted into the societie, who in short time turned aside both in practice and opinion, as to de­ny the resurrection, and joyn the ceremonies of the Law with Christ in the point of justification, and many other abuses: which is a great presumption, they gave no sure testimony of [Page 57]any sound worke of grace in their soules, when first entertai­ned into fellowship. And though the Apostles required a con­fession of faith, and profession of obedience of them that joy­ned in Christian societie, yet they tollerated great abuses in private persons, which they could not redresse. For without question they condemned the having of many wives at once in all men, but when that custome at least secret and indirect, 1 Tim. 3.2.12. Tit. 1.6. Calvin in 1 Tim. 3.2. prevailed among the Jewes and Gentiles both in those times, they give no Dan. in loc. Ri­vet. cathol. orthod: tract. 2. qu. 24. sect. 6.7. Chrysost. in e­pist. 1. ad Tim. hom. 10. & in epist. ad Tit. hom. 2. Hie­ron. in epist. 1. ad Tim. ca. 3. cathar. cathol. advers. er­ror. Cajet. err. 99. Jewel def. of apel. par. 2. cap. 8. Div. 1. pag. 179. 1 Tim. 1.20. 1 Cor. 5.7.13. Rev. 2.5.16. & 3.16. Commandement that each beleever having two wives, should be cast out of the societie, but onely that he should not be chosen into the place of a Bishop or Deacon. Great and manifold abuses crept into the Churches, even whilest the Apostles lived, and shortly after they were planted, and some of those were reprehended onely, calling the Chur­ches to reformation and amendment; the grosse, obstinate, and most abhominable transgressors, either they gave up to Satan, or gave commandement to the Churches that they should cast them out: but evermore, with such mildnesse and moderation, as it is most evident, they forbore to plucke up the tares, least they should plucke up the good corne also. It is also manifest, they threaten some Churches with Gods displeasure, as that he would remove his Candlestick, cast them into the bed of sicknesse, spew them out of his mouth, unlesse they repent: but they dischurch them not, because of the disor­ders committed by some, tolerated by others, nor yet did they command or counsell the godly in those societies to separate from the ordinances of Religion, but to keep themselves pure.

The History of the Gospel in the New Testament contai­neth but a short time, viz. from the time wherin John the Bap­tist began to preach, to the end of the acts and writings of the Apostles, which is not full fourscore yeares: so that we cannot shew the repetition of the Covenant from time to time, or what patience was shewed in tolerating abuses, or when men were adjudged obstinate, or what repentance and profession was required in generall abuses or revolts; but by that which is said, we may discerne who in phrase of Scripture are called Saints, and holy, faithfull, and called, and chosen; even, all and every member of the common-wealth of Israel, and Chri­stian Churches, untill they were cut off, or cast out, though they lived not according to their profession, but were stiffe­necked, scandalous, prophane.

The practice of the Church according to the example of the Apostles in Concil. Laodicen. 14.46. Hilar. ad constant. lib. 2. im­perf. I cannot re­ceive any man, but him that is wil­ling: I cannot give care, but to him that entreateth a I cannot signe any, but him that pro­fesseth. Raban. de instit. cleric. lib. 1. cap. 25.27. Justine Martyr. apol. 2. receiving Heathens and them that were with­out into societie was this. First, They were taught in the principles of Religion, and then the doctrine of Christ being received, profession made, with promise to renounce the world, the flesh, and the Devill, they were baptized. Justine sometime an Heathen Philosopher, but after a famous Mar­tyr of Christ, in his second Apologie for Christians, repor­teth. That if any Heathen man desired to be received into the fellowship of the Church, he was first Concil. Agathens. ca. 25. Iudaei quorū perfidia frequenter ad vomitum redit, si ad legem catho­licā venire volue­rint, octo mēses in­ter catechumenos Ecclesiae limen in­troeant, & si pura fide no scuntur ve­nire, tum demum, &c. Socrat. lib. 7. hist. cap. 30. Hieron. ad Pam­mach. Tert. de Baptism. Tert. de praescript. ca 14. & in apolog. ca. 47. Ruff. in sym­bol. Math. 28.19. [...]. Basil. cont. Eunom. l. 3. Our Baptisme is according to the tradition of the Lord, In the name of the Father, the Sonne, and the ho­ly Ghost. catechised in the prin­ciples of Religion, & then hearing further the word of God, as it were, the Conditions of the Covenant of grace; after­wards came into the face of the Congregation, and confessed that he did beleeve, and promised that he would obey the word of God; whereupon he was baptized, and received into the fellowship of the Church. And that this order might be the better observed, the Church appointed certain times, and in some places a longer space, at other times, and in other places a shorter time, for catechising of Heathen, before they were baptized. Socrates writeth that when the Burgonians desired to be initiated into the number of Christian people, after they had been catechised seven dayes, they were baptized the eighth. Hierome saith, the custome in his dayes was to catechize them fortie dayes, and then to baptize them. Ter­tullian witnesseth, that there were two times in the yeare, Ea­ster and Whitsontide, especially appointed by the Church for Baptisme; and strangers from the Covenant were instructed in the principles of Religion, all the rest of the yeare, against these two times.

The profession at first required of all that were received to Baptisme, was that they beleeved in the Father, Sonne, and holy Ghost. The Creede is honoured of the Ancients with glorious titles, as the rule of faith, the Summe of faith, the body of faith, the perswasion of faith. But by the Creede, they understand the Rule of truth, and law of faith, and insti­tution of Christ, which was then given, when he was about to ascend into heaven, and commanded his Disciples, saying, Goe and teach all Nations, Baptising them into the name of the Father, Sonne, and holy Ghost. Regulam fidei per Baptismum ac­cipimus. Iren. lib. 1. cap. 2. Per ipsam Baptismi traditionem ha­bemus confessionem; Basil. despir. fanct. cap. 10. Regula quidem [Page 59]fidei, una omnino est, sola immobilis, & irreformabilis, Socrat. Hist. lib. 1. ca. 5. Niceph. lib. 8. ca. 17. Hist. Trip. lib. 2. ca. 9. credendi sc, in unicum Deum omnipotentem, mundi conditores, & filium e­jus Jesum, &c. Tertul. de veland. virgin. The expositions of the Creede, which are found in the ancient Fathers, Martial, Ignatius, Justine, Jreneus, Tertullian, Origen, de rect. fid. dialog. princ. Novatian, lib. de Trin. 3. and others of that age, goe not beyond the Trinitie, within which bounds the Nicene Creede is terminated, as it is set downe in History. Arius and Euzo­nius conclude their confession of faith thus; Socrat. Hist. lib. 2. cap. 7. & lib. 1. cap. 19. Sicut Dominus noster cùm Discipules suos ad praedicandum mitteret, &c. This faith we received from the Gospel, the Lord himselfe saying to his Disciples, Goe teach all Nations, &c. Erasm. ad censur. facult. Theolog. Parisien. tit. 11. Erasmus sheweth how the Creed was encreased by the addition of divers Arti­cles, against the heresies that did arise, and though for sub­stance it was the very same every where, yet in some places, it received more enlargement then in others. The westerne Churches, herein applyed themselves to the capacities of the meaner so [...]t, more than the Easterne did, using in their Bap­tisme, that shorter forme of confession commonly called the Apostles Creed, which in more ancient times, was briefer also than now it is; as we may easily perceive by comparing the symboll recited by Marcellus Anciranus (in the profession of the faith, Apud. Epiphan. in haeres. 72. which he delivered to Pope Julius) with the ex­positions of the Apostles Creed, written by the Latine Do­ctors. Wherein the mention of the Fathers being maker of heaven and earth, the Sonnes death and descending into hell, and the communion of Saints is wholly omitted. The Creede which the Easterne Churches used in Baptisme, was larger than this, being either the same, Euseb. epist. apud Socrat. lib 1. ca. 5. et 8. Theodor. lib. 8. ca. 12. or very little different from that which we commonly call the Nicene Creede, because the greatest part of it was repeated and confirmed in the first gene­rall councell held at Nice, where the first draught thereof was presented to the Synod, by Eusebius Bishop of Cesarea, with this Preamble, As we have received from the Bishops that were before us, both at our first catechising, and when we received Baptisme, and as we have learned from the holy Scriptures, and as we have both beleeved and taught, when we entred in­to the Ministery, and in our Bishopricke it selfe. So beleeving at this present also, we declare this our faith unto you. To this the Nicene Fathers added a more cleare explication of the deitie of the Sonne (against the Arrian Heresie, wherewith [Page 60]the Church was troubled) professing him to be begotten not made, Concil. Constan. ap. Theoder. lib. 5. c. 9. and to be of one substance with the Father. The second generall Councell which was assembled fifty-six yeares after at Constantinople, approving this confession of the faith, as most ancient, and agreeable to Baptisme, enlarged it some­what in the Article that concerned the Holy Ghost especially, which at that time was most oppugned by the Macedonian Heretiques. Epipha. in [...]. pag. 518. edit. Gr. Cassian. de incarn. verb. lib. 5. And whereas the Nicene confession proceeded no further than to the beliefe, which we have in the Holy Trini­tie, the Fathers of the Constantinople made it up, by adding that which was commonly professed, touching the catholique Church, and the priviledges belonging thereunto. Epiphanius repeating this Creede at large, affirmeth it to have been deli­vered unto the Church by the Apostles. Cassianus avoucheth as much, where he urgeth this against Nestorius, as the Creed anciently received in the Church of Antioch, from whence he came. The Romane Church after the dayes of Charles the Great, added the Article of the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Sonne, unto this Symboll. In the See Bellarm. li. 4. de verbo Dei. c. 11. Quaedam in doctri­na Christiana tam fidei, quam morum, sunt simpliciter o­mnibus necessaria ad salutem, qualis est notitia articu­lorum. Symboli A­postolici, item cog­niti [...] decem praecep­torum, &c. Symboll which Cyprian expoundeth there, is added, The resurrection of this flesh; because of the Originists, who professed we should rise againe, not with these, but with other bodies. For things to be beleeved, this was the acknowledgement which the Church required of them that were to be received into the Congrega­tion of Christs flocke. And for the practicall part, or things to be done, shee required of them an Clement. constit. lib. 8. ca. 32. [...], &c. [...]. abrenunciation of the Devill, the world, and the flesh, with all their sinfull workes and lusts, which being solemnly-done, they were then bap­tised into this faith.

The meanes whereby men were brought to the knowledge of Christ were divers. Some were wonne by the preaching of the Word, others, by private teaching, conference, admoni­tion, the constancy of the Saints in suffering, and the fame and report of the great things which the Lord was pleased to worke by his people, as Rahab was converted by the fame of the great things which the Lord had wrought for Israell. Thus the Countrey of the Secrat. hist. lib. 1. cap. 16. lat. Gr. cap. 20. Theodor. lib. 1. cap. 24. Sozom. hist. lib. 2. cap. 6. Sozom. hist. lib. 1. cap. 7. Iberians was converted by a cap­tive woman, who after shee had instructed the King and the Queene, they both became Teachers of the Gospell to the people. Theridates is reported to be called to the Christian Religion, by a Sozom. li. 1. c. 7. [...], &c. wonderfull and divine vision, which appea­red [Page 61]about his house, and by his Edict he commanded all his Subjects, that they should addict themselves to the faith of Christ. The Persians were brought to the faith by the confe­rence which they had with the Oswenians, and Armenians. Origen when yet he was not allowed for a Minister by the Church, did by the blessing of God, turne many to the faith, who gave testimony thereunto, by the losse of their lives. He preached also publikely by the consent of the Church-Governours, when he was not made Minister, which Euseb. hist. lib. 6. cap. 4. Alex­ander Bishop of Hierusalem, and Theoctistus, Bishop of Cesa­rea, defend against Demetrius; by the like examples of Euse­bius, Paulinus, and Theodorus, and as they adde it is likely the same was done in other places. Euseb. hist. lib. 6. ca. 20. Gr. 3. lat. See Whitaker ad­vers. Staplet. Du­plic. lib. 1. cap. 7. pag. 100. & ca 9. pag. 139 & ca. 11 pag. 176, 177. Fulk. answ. to the Rh in Rom. 10 15. Wotton tryall of the Church. See Socrat hist. l. 5. cap. 10. Theodor. l. 5 ca. 16. Socrat. hist. lib. 1. ca. 15. lat. ca. 19. Gr. Hence we may perceive, whom the Church both in the first planting, and reforming of Religion, judged to be Saints, who were to be received into societie; wherein we are further to note, If ought were done amisse, in this or that particular circumstance, it did not nulli­fie the worke, or reformation.

Now to apply this to the state of the Brittish Churches, both in their first plantation, continuance after, and that re­formation which was made by King Edward first, and after by Queen Elizabeth, and so is continued. Some Camden. Britan. pag. 47. edit. Lond. An. 1607. Fr. God­win. de conv. Bri­tan. ca. 3. pag. 23. Vsser de prim. Eccl. Brit. ca. 1. Gildas. learned men are of opinion, that the Druides did instruct the Britaines, in the knowledge and worship of one God: but it is more pro­bable, they lay drowned in the dayes of ignorance, as other Nations, in the most miserable and fearfull idolatry, of ser­ving and worshipping many and strange gods. But when the light of the Gospel began to shine unto the world of the Gen­tiles, it pleased God of his free and boundlesse mercy and com­passion to looke upon this Origen. in Ezek. Hom. 4. Hieron. ad Heliodor. ep. 3. Gil­das. Ʋsser de prim. cap. 16. pag. 740. Theodor. lib. 9. [...]. Eu­seb. hist. l. 2. ca. 2, 3. Vsser de prim. ca. 2. pag. 20. & ca. 16. pag. 740, 741. viz. Vsser de prim. Eccl. Britan. ca. 1, 2, 3. Iland, and to send unto us the word of reconciliation, which was received & brought forth fruit, grew and encreased, untill at length it filled the Land. Which of the Apostles first preached the Gospell among us, is uncertaine, but that from the springing forth of the light, the faith of Christ was received, is a thing generally acknow­ledged. Of the yeare when King Lucius received the faith of Christ, and was baptized, there is great diversitie among Hi­storians: but in the thing it selfe they all Ep. eleuther. ad Lutium inter. léges Edward. cap. 17. Euseb hist. l. 4. c. 7. Lat. 5. Gr. Ruffin. Eccl. hist. l. 4. cap. 8. Gildas. Bedae hist. l. 7. c. 4. Orig. in E­zek. hom. 4. & in Luc. cap. 1. hom. 6. Tertul. lib. advers. Iudae: ca. 7. Gildas scriptor antiquissimus. Reges Dei vicarij Vsser de prim. ca. 6. p. 104. & cap 7. pag. 143, 144, &c. agree in the times of Hadrian and Antoninus, Emperours, the Christian faith re­ceived [Page 62]mighty encrease, as in the rest of the world; so in Brit­taine, and amongst some, remained intire and undefiled, un­till the persecution of Dioclesian; which persecution burned furiously for the space of ten yeares in many Provinces, but in Britaine, it continued onely one yeare. For Constantius Chlo­rus, being declared Augustus, Euseb. de vita Constan. l. 1, c. 12. & 9. restored peace to Christians in the Province of his Dominions, scil. Spaine, France, and Britaine. After the death of Constantius, Euseb. hist. lib. 8. c. 29. Gr. Ruffin. 29 Sozom. l. 1. c. 6. Constantine his Son, borne in England, and present with his Father at Yorke when he dyed, was made Emperour; in whose time and reigne per­secution ceased, peace was generally given to the Church, Euseb. hist. lib. 10. ca. 2. & lib 40. cap. 5. f. Temples built, which before had been made equall with the ground, and the profession of Christian faith restored. Under Constantine two great Councells were called. The first at Tom. 1. Concil. Gall. edit. Paris. An. 1629. Ar­les in France, An. 314. to take knowledge of the cause of the Donatists, where were present out of our Britaine Eborius. Bishop of Yorke, Euseb. de vita Cō ­stant. lib. 3. ca. 18. Socrat. l. 1. cap. 6. & lib. 5. cap. 21. Theodor. l. 1. ca. 10. Restitutus, Bishop of London, Adelphius Bishop of Colchester, and Arminius Diaconus, Presbyter. The second was the Nicene Councell in Bythinia, An. 325 against Arius, where the Britaines also were assembled. And though in the Councell of Ariminum, in Italy under Constantius, where Bishops out of Britaine were assembled with others, it was concluded for Arius, yet Britaine was preserved safe from the Arian infection, both in the reignes of Constantius, and Julian the Apostata. Athanas. Graecolar. tom. 1. pag. 309. e­dit. Comelit. Theodor. hist. l. 4. c. 3. Pelagius a Britaine by birth, trou­bled the Churches with his pestilent Doctrine, denying the grace of God, attributing power and libertie to man to live without sinne, and keepe the Commandements, if he would. This Heresie arose about the yeare 405. or 406. and the Au­thor thereof drew his first breath in Britaine, Prudent. [...]. Trim. 13. speaking of Cypri­an saith, Gallos fo­vet, imbuit Britan­nos, praesidet Hispe­riae, Christum serit ultimis Hiberis. Ʋsser. de prim. Ec­cles. Britan. ca. 16. pag. 787. but he sowed not this hereticall doctrine in Britaine. And though it must be confessed, That these Churches were not altogether free from that infection, yet at first it was opposed, and after it was banished, by the blessing of God. About the yeare 420. flourished Fastidius, of whom Gennedius in his catalogue of Ecclesiasticall Writers, saith, Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines, wrote to Fatalis one booke of Christian life, and another of keeping Widdow-hood, in sound doctrine, and according to the truth of God. And John Trithemius, Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines, was a man learned in the holy Scriptures, and an excellent Preacher of the word of God, famous in life [Page 63]and conversation, in speech and wit notable: Prosper. contra. col­later. cap. 41. Vsser de prim. pag. 319, 320, 323, 324. He wrote some devout little works, &c. And by the vigilancy and care of Lo­pis, and Germanus Antisiodorensis, the Britaines were delive­red from the contagion which had begun to infect the Chur­ches. After this the face of things was miserable in that King­dome, by reason of the invasion of the Repellūt nos bar­bari ad mare, repel­lit mare ad barba­ros. Inter haec duo genera funerū, aut jugulamur autmer­gimur. Bed. hist. ec­cl. l. 1. cap. 14. Bil­son. The true dif­ference betweene Christians. Par. 1. pa. 56. That this Land was infected with Arianisme, & Pelagianisme, as many other places then were, I find it reported in the sto­ry of Beda Eccl. his. gent. Angl. l. 1. c. 8. & lib. 1. cap. 17. And the Bishops of France our neigh­bours upon request made unto them by the Britaines, sent Germanus and Lu­pus, two French Bishops, chosen in a Synod by the ge­nerall liking, to convert this realm from Pelagius er­rour, which also they did with great celeritie. barbarous enemy, the terrible famine, the direfull contagion of the Pelagian and Arian heresies, and the loosenesse, negligence, drunkennesse, contentions, and other vices of the Clergie. The Christian Religion thus corrupted, was restored againe by the second comming of Germannus: but after that grievously oppressed by the comming in of the Anglo-Saxons, who could not yet so extinguish the truth of God, but it did revive, spread and grow, though sometimes more pure, sometimes more cor­rupt, and sometimes with greater, sometimes with lesse free­dome.

But to come to the last reformation which was made of Re­ligion in this Land, and it was not the conversion of England from infidelitie to the profession of the Gospell, but the re­storing of it from a corrupt state or profession to a more pure; from Christianitie polluted, to Christianitie unpolluted. Christians they were who inhabited this Land, baptized into the true faith of Jesus Christ, but Christians defiled with ma­nifold superstitions, led aside into manifold errors, which er­rors and superstitions removed, they become sound and true Christians indeed. The true Chaloner. Credo S: 2. part. sect. 2: It will soone ap­peare that the Ch [...] of Rome for a thousand yeares after our Saviour, professed no other faith, nor published any o­ther beliefe in points fundamentall, either negative or affirmative, than we doe, &c. After a thousand and some few yeares more were expired (Transubstantiation, and Adoration of the Host, with other dregs of Antichrist being established) though we cannot say that the Church of Rome was from thence forth absolutely our Church, yet we may boldly say, that our church was from that time untill Luther, both within the Romane Church and without it. Church lay hid in Popery, as a little oare in a great lump of drosse, not refined, not purified, not coyned, but true gold for substance, yea, that very same for substance which being purified and stamped, is currant coyne. When the invocation of Saints, worshipping of Ima­ges, the Latine Service, and fabulous Legends, the sacrifice of the Masse, and adoration of the Sacrament, with such like ab­hominations, were taken away; and in the roome thereof, the true worship of one true God in the mediation of Jesus Christ, and the right administration of the Sacraments, and the reading of the holy Scriptures in a knowne tongue esta­blished; [Page 64]when the omnipotency of the Pope is abandoned, with all corrupt superstitions, which did undermine the foun­dation it selfe: and in stead thereof the intire faith of the Lord Jesus, in all points necessary to salvation, taught, professed, and received; then is the Church refined and separated from that drosse. To bring Infidells from the state of infidelitie to the faith, it is necessary that instruction goe before, either by reading, exhortation, preaching, or report of Christian faith, for faith commeth by hearing. But where men professe Chri­stianitie, abuses may be reformed by the Edict of the Magi­grate, without such particular instruction going before, as in the former case is requisite. Many times Jo. 2.19. heresie departeth from the Church, or Heretickes goe out from the Church: and sometimes the Church is compelled to goe out from he­resie, the heresie still remaining. Revel. 18.4. Come out of her my people, saith the Lord: the godly then departing from Babylon, according to Gods commandement, & gathering themselves into Chri­stian societies, the religious Magistrate, by his Edict or Pro­clamation going before them, are the true churches of Christ. The Raynold. orat. e­pist. ad fratrem. Non semper heresis exit ab ecclesia, a­liquando manet he­resis, ecclesia exire cogitur. Papacy was not the church, but the church lay hid in the Papacy, untill the time of separation, which being made according to Gods commandement, by the authoritie of the Lords Vicegerent, the church, which was before August. epist. 48. ad Vincent. Dona­tist. Ecclesia est, quae aliquando ob­scuratur, & tan­quam obnubilatur, multitudine scan­dalorum. obscured, doth now shine forth. Thus our Divines doe soundly and truely answer to the Papists demanding, where our Church was before Luther, That it was where now it is, but unrefined, unstamped; that it lay Beza. epist. 1. ad Duditium: et si Pa­patun non sit Eccle­sia, voluit Deus in Papatu servare ec­clesiam. hid among them for the time, as some fit stones for the building, under a great heap of rubbish; and that we have not erected a new Church, but repaired and re­stored a ruinous See Dr. Feild of the Church, lib. 3. c. 6. & 8. Beza. e­pist. 81. Quid inte­rim misera Dei ec­clesia? nempe haec tunc erat ipsius cō ­ditio, quae olim in Israele temporibus Eliae, delirescenti­bu [...] in spelūca fide­libus Dei Prophe­tis: et qualis rum erar, quum everso Dei templo, & ju­gi cessante sacrifi­cio, captiva in Ba­bylone teneretur. Servabat tamen Dominus renasci­turi suo tempore, populi semen. Ma­nebat salvus in pa­patu Baptismus, in patris, filij & Sp. Sancti nomen, &c. decayed and corrupt Church. If any of our men deny the Churches wherein our Fathers lived to be the Churches of God, their meaning is limited in respect of the prevailing faction that was in the church, and including them and all the wicked impieties by any of them defended; in which sence, their negative is to be understood. These things standing thus, might not the christian Magistrate take away the Idoll of the Masse, injoyne the reading of the Scriptures in a knowne tongue; appoint that prayer should be made to God onely in the mediation of Jesus Christ, and take order that the Sacrament of the Supper might be administred in both kindes, 2 Chron. 17.7, 8 9, 10. according to the institution? Might he not [Page 65] Nabuchadneezer made a law, That no man should blaspheme the God of Shadrac, &c. Dan. 3.29. Darius, that men trēble & feare before the God of Daniel, Dan. 6.26. Joshua made a co­venant with the people, that they should put away their strange gods, Ios. 24.23. Asa de­stroyed Idolatrie, & commanded the people to serve and seeke the Lord, 2 Par. 14.3, 4. & 15, 8, 9, 10, &c. Jehosaphat sent Princes to teach in the Cities of Ju­dah, & with them Levites, 2 Chro. 17.7, 8, 9. & 19.4. Hezekiah sent to all Israel & Iudah, that they should come to the house of the Lord, 2 Par. 30.1.6. Also he took away the high places, 2 Reg. 18.4. Iosiah brake downe the altars of Baal, and brought backe the people to the worship of God, 2 Chron. 34.3, 4, 5.7 29, 30, 32, 33. Polonia, Russia, Lithuania was forced at the commandement of their Rulers to forsake their ancient Idols, and receive Baptisme. Munster Cosmograph. fol. 894.902. and divers good Princes maintained long and sharpe warres, of pur­pose to compell the Saxons and Vandals to the faith, Idem lib. 3. fol. 719.743. It is a strange & new kind of preaching (for Bishops) to drive men to beleeve with whippings, as Bonner did; but in Princes, who beare the sword, and are Gods Lievetenants, not onely to procure peace be­tween men, but also by Lawes to maintaine Religion towards God, we neither did, nor doe dispraise moderate correction, when need so requireth, August. Epist. 127. Idem contra Eres­con. lib. 3. cap. 50. Idem contra lit. Petilian. lib. 2. cap. 86.83. Codex. lib. 1. tit. 5. de Haere­tic. Socrat. lib. 1. ca. 34. Gr. lat. 21, 22. Euseb. de vità Const. lib. 1. cap. 37. Theoderet. lib. 5. cap. 20. Multa enim cogit ferre necessitas quae tamen non probantur. command all people throughout his Dominions professing the faith, to learne the grounds of Religion, to call upon the Name of the Lord, to heare his Word and to worship him truly and purely, according as the Lord himselfe hath ap­pointed? And when the people could not, or were carelesse and negligent, might he not provide meanes for their instru­ction and edification in the faith of the Lord Jesus? This the Christian Magistrates did amongst us by authority from God. They provided that the Scriptures should be read in a known language in all Congregations, Ministers injoyned to cate­chise in the grounds of Christian Religion, the Gospell was preached in many places, disputation was profered to the learned for satisfaction. If these things be advisedly confide­red, we shall heare no more from the Brethren of the Separa­tion, that our Church was gathered without the Word, by meere Proclamation, not called but made up a Church in one day, at the commandement of the evill Magistrate: at least, no man that hath truly tasted of the Word of life, will be moved with such like cavills, unlesse it be to condemne their rashnesse and unthankfulnesse so much the more. It might here be ad­ded; that before reformation many did earnestly desire it; some lay hid all the dayes of Queene Mary, who never came to the Masse, but trained up their children and servants at home in the grounds of Christian Religion; others fled into forraine parts: some met together in private in their owne Countryes, as they had opportunitie, and many groaned un­der that bondage in which they were held; all which did glad­ly welcome the truth, when it shined forth, and rejoyced when they might joyn in the Congregation, understand their prayers, heare the Scriptures, and be instructed in the princi­ples of faith and holinesse. And if I should say, that at the first reformation, there were more godly, learned, painfull Prea­chers, [Page 66]that endeavoured to bring forward the people in the wayes of godlinesse, by an hundred to one, than ever wane of your Separation since the Gospell shined unto the world, I conceive you shall not be able to finde an Hyperbole in the speech.

And now suppose in this great and admirable worke, such a course to be held, as cannot be justified in all things, shall this make a nullitie of that which is prosperously effected by the blessing of God? If ignorant Ministers should not have beene set over the people, when better could not be had; if people should not have been admitted to the Lords Supper, before better instruction in the grounds of Christian Religion (when yet the Law doth presuppose them in some sort instructed;) If prophane and notorious wicked persons, which should have been cast out, unlesse they had repented, were received in­to communion, without any due course held before to reform and amend them, this argueth Beza. epist. 1. ad Dudetium. Valen­tinian the elder was a good man, & worthy the Em­pire, being him­self of the Nicene faith. Theod. lib. 4. ca. 5. Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 6. and yet he molested not any that were of the contrary faith, nei­ther thought he it good to change Ec­clesiastical laws in­to better or worse, Sozom. li. 6. ca. 20. Socrat. l. 4. c. 1 and made a Law, that every man that would might have two wives, & him­selfe gave the first example in taking two. Socrat. l. 4. Gr. ca. 30. lat. ca. 16. Can. Neces. of Se­parat. p. 175, 176: 1 Reg. 6.17, 18. 2 Chron. 1.8, 9. imperfection in the reforma­tion, and just cause that we should strive forward to perfect what was happily begun, but proveth not the assemblies to be Antichristian, or the reformation to be of no worth and va­liditie.

Looke through all the Reformations mentioned in Scrip­ture, or recorded in other Antiquities; and set if this refor­mation be a nullity, whether ever there was a reformed church in the world for any continuance.

SECT. II.

THe materiall Temple was a type of the visible Churches under the Gospell; Now we read, that it was built from the very foundation [...]f costly stones, of Cedars, Algum, Firre, and the like choice and speciall trees, and those all prepared aforehand, hewed and perfect for the building, so that neither hammer, nor axe, nor any toole was to be hea din the house, in the building of it; no com­mon or vile thing was used towards it; neither might any polluted person enter it and offer, untill he had repented and embraced the faith, 2 Chron. 23.19. Levit. 22.19. & 27.11. and beene cleansed from his filthinesse. By the gates of the house were Porters set to keepe the unworthy out. Ʋpon the Altar there might be offered no uncleane beast, no nor that which was cleane, having a blemish upon it. What in all this was signified? Onely this: Such as will build a spirituall house for the Lord to [Page 67]dwell in, must be an holy people: for he is of that infinite puritie, that he will not vouchsafe his speciall presence unto prophane com­panies, which joyne themselves together; and therefore let it be far from all men to prepare a place for him, with such trash, or to de­file his holy things with such uncleane persons, or to offend his no­strills with the stinke of such sacrifices.

ANSVVER.

IF this reason be ought worth, not only such as would build a spirituall house to the Lord for his Majestie to dwell in, but such as would preserve it being built, must be an holy people, holy in truth, and not onely in the judgement of cha­ritie: for he is an holy God, who will not be worshipped of the hypocrite or prophane, will not take the wicked dissem­bler by the hand, will not heare the prayers of them that with delight looke unto iniquitie. If the Temple was built from the very foundation with costly stone, hewen and prepared, after it was built, it must be kept from all pollution. And then if the Temple was a type of the visible Church in such sense as this reason affirmeth, it must be gathered of a people truely holy and separated from the world, and onely of such, so that if any hypocrite shall craftily creep into it, or any wicked per­son be tolerated afterwards, it must cease to be a Church: August. de Baptis. contr. Petilian. ca. 14. & in Epist. 1. Joh. Beda in epist. 1 Iob. Glossa ordi­nar. Sic sunt ficti in ecclesia, quomodo humores mali in corpore; quando e­vomūtur, releuatur corpus, sic qudndo excunt mali, rele­vatur Ecclesia. which is directly contrary to the whole current of Scripture, and to that which your selfe many times affirme. The Temple is thought to be a type of Christ, of a Christian, of the Church, but whether of the true Catholique Church, whereof every member is a living stone, elect and precious, or of the visible congregationall assembly, consisting of good and bad, sincere and hypocriticall professors, it may well be questioned: For the visible Church is not built all of costly stones, hewen and prepared: Therein many persons inwardly polluted doe of­fer, though outwardly they appeare cleane, and some may be suffered to offer, which inwardly and outwardly appeare to be uncleane.

And if it was a type of the visible Church, it must be consi­dered how farre the signification is to be extended, and where­in the resemblance standeth. For as it appertaineth to God onely to designe a type, so it is peculiar to him alone to ex­pound or notifie the A dispute. par. 3. cap. 8. pag. 169. Men may never at their pleasure a­scribe to any rite whatsoever, a ho­ly signification of some mysterie of faith or dutie of pietie. signification of the type wherein it con­sisteth: [Page 68]It is an addition prohibited for us to interpret divine instituted types upon our owne heads, without ground and warrant from God. The common Rule is good, if rightly li­mited; Theologia symbolica non est argumentativa, which you had need to study better, for here and else-where throughout your bookes, you thrust such significations of types used in the old Testament upon your Reader, as are not taught in Scripture, not for the matter it selfe consonant to the August. contr. 2. Gaudent. epist. l. 2. cap. 25. Did God or man tell it you? If God, reade it unto us out of the Law, the Prophets and Psalmes, the Apostolicall or E­vangelicall Wri­tings? Reade it if you can, which hi­therto you never could; but if men have said it (or ra­ther no man but your selfe) behold the device of men, behold what you worship, behold what you serve, be­hold wherfore you rebell, you rage, you waxe madde. Bils. Christ. sub­ject. pars 3. pag. 22. You promised full proofes out of the Word of God, &c. and now you come with empty figures of your own, apply­ing without truth or coherence. Amb. Epist. lib. 5. ep. 31. The myste­ry of Heaven, let God himself teach me, which made (Heaven) not man which knew not himselfe; whom should I rather be­leeve concerning God, than God himselfe. Scrip­ture: and your whole frame of arguing is drawne from simi­litudes and comparisons, which is the most popular, but de­ceitfull and loose kinde of reasoning, if they be not rightly drawne and well proportioned. Let this particular in hand be for example, and let us grant you more than you will de­fire, scil. That the Temple was a type of the visible Church, and that all the members thereof ought to be holy, truly holy and not in appearance onely, sincere Christians in the sight of God, and in the judgement of charitie alone, Saints and faith­full in truth, and not onely in profession and conversation in some measure answerable: be it that no uncleane thing must be offered upon the altar, that no hypocriticall service shall be accepted: Hence it will not follow, that the societie is no vi­sible Church of God where such are tolerated, or that the pure and unfeigned worship of the faithfull, shall not be accepted; when it is tendered in a societie amongst whom there be some rebellious, which hate to be reformed.

If the Temple be a type of the visible Church as it was built from the very foundation of costly stones, what can it signifie in your sense, but that the spirituall house of the Lord must consist of them that are truely holy, faithfull, and called, so that they should need, neither axe, hammer, nor any toole (so you presse the matter) to fit or square. And then by your owne confession we are to expect no Church upon the earth, if ever there hath beene any: For in the visible Church hypo­crites are and have been mixed with the faithfull, as rubbish or counterfeit with costly stones, which could have no place in the Temple. Can. Stay. sect. 4. pag. 33. Thus (I might say to you, as you to your Pisto­ler) The man is snared in his owne words, and may say with the Poet; Heu! patior telis vulnera facta meis! If the Temple might be a type of the Church this notwithstanding, then it shewes onely what the Church ought to be, not what it is; of whom it doth consist as prime, chiefe, principall members, [Page 69]partakers of all the Royalties and priviledges thereof, and not who are tolerated and suffered there as members in an inferi­our degree, or as maimes and blemishes: And then you must lie under the just imputation of abusing this instance to ano­ther purpose, not agreeable to the truth. Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 195. It will not be found that ever wee have denied, but many hypocrites may be in the true church, yea, of open and vile transgressors: but here lyeth the point; If any man shall affirme that the same may be first gathered of knowne lewd, and unconverted men, that indeed we de­ny utterly, &c. When you are pres­sed with the examples where wicked and ungodly men were tolerated in the Church and did beare chiefe sway, and pos­sessed the greatest places and office in the Church, you fly to this, that you plead against the first building of a Church of such wicked and ungodly men, and here you say. He that will build a spirituall house to the Lord, and the orderly gathering and planting of the members of them, were all holy: But if this reason be of any force, it concludes for the cōtinuance of the Church as well as the first planting or gathering, that the members thereof must be truly holy. And if this be not more cunning than beseemeth the sincere handler of Gods Word in a matter of such importance, let the indifferent consider.

SECT. III.

THe reasons upon which our proposition is grounded are these; Neces. of Separat. pag. 176, 177. Psal. 50.16. Isa. 35.8. Zach. 14.21. Rev. 21. ult. first, All wicked men are forbidden expresly by the Word of God, for medling with his ordinance or covenant. Now if men to escape temporall punishment are afraid to transgresse against the Lawes of worldly Princes! much more fearefull should they be to breake his, who is the King of Kings, and will inflict for it upon their soules and bodies torments eternally 2. That which de­stroyeth a Church and makes it either to become a false Church or no Church at all, cannot be a true Church, or be true matter whereof it is made: But men visibly wicked and prophane, make the Church a Synagogue of Satan, Babylon, Sodome, Aegypt, and so be spied out and removed. 3. It is against sense and com­mon reason, that a Church should be constituted of unholy people: For as in a materiall house the wood and stone must be first prepa­red, and then laid orderly in the building: So in the spirituall, men and women by the word of God must necessarily be first re­formed, before they are any way fit to have any place therein. 4. They which have no right to the holy things of God in the Church, are not to be admitted into it, neither is that Church which is so gathered, rightly constituted. Matth. 7.6. But men of wicked con­versation have no right to the holy things of God in the Church: [Page 70]And therefore that Church which is gathered of such, is not right­ly constituted. 5. They cannot performe the services and duties of members, Eph. 2.1. for they are spiritually dead; If a Master will who covenant with one to be his servant, which hath in him no naturall life, much lesse, &c. 6. They have not Christ for their head, and therefore cannot be of his body; For as in the naturall body there must first be a naturall [...] of the parts with the head, before there can be day action of naturall conjunction, Ioh. 15.2.4, Rom. 8. betweene the head and the members, and one member and another: so in the spirituall body, the members must be first united with Christ the head, and became one with him, before they can any way partake in his bene­fits, Rom. 7.2. Hos [...]a 2.19, 20. or have communion one with another, as members of the s [...]me body [...] him the head. 7. They are altogether uncapable of this covenant; For as a woman which hath beene once a wife, can­not marry againe with another man, untill her first husband be de­ceased, or shee from him lawfully divorced; So neither can these be married to the [...], till they have mortified their corruptions, and put the world and Satan away, unto which they were before (as it were) married. 8. The godly and wicked are contraries, guided and lead by different causes: Now true contraries are not capable of one and the same forme.

ANSVVER.

THe best way to be secure from the force of your darts, is to run unto the marke. For here we have reasons numbred up which have weight in them for some purpose (some of them at the least) but direct them to your marke, and they recoyle backe upon your selfe. When you have reckoned up first, second, and third, &c. the conclusion is ever wanting, and not so much as one premise which lookes to the right conclusion to be confirmed. The thing to be proved is this, that it is no true Church of God, which is not planted, gathe­red, or built of Saints onely: but that consequence will never follow from those premisses. For every thing in those Rea­sons must as well be applied to the continuance of the church, as to the first gathering and planting of it. The wicked are expresly forbidden to meddle with the covenant, or ordinan­ces of God, men visibly wicked make the church a Synagogue of Satan: Men must be hewen and reformed before they are fit to have any place in the Church of God: Men of wicked con­versation [Page 71]have no right to the holy things of God: Bilson. perpet. go­vern. ca. 10. p. 147. With open repro­ving by the Word, & excluding from the Sacramēts such as notoriously sin­ned, Pastours and Prophets might in­termeddle, the peo­ple might not: It was no part of their charge, but in ba­nishing of malefa­ctors from all fel­lowship and com­pany both civill & sacred, with the faithfull: Pastours were to direct, the people to assist and execute that judge­ment. The Apo­stles doe not leave it to the peoples liking, as a matter indifferet, till they have cōsented, but enjoyneth it as a necessary duty, and cōmādeth them in the namē of Christ Iesus to withdraw themselves from e­very brother that walketh inordi­nately, &c. Where there wanteth à beleeving Magi­strate, the Pastour shall not doe wise­ly to proceed to a­ny such rigour a­gainst wilfull and obstinate sinners, without the knowledge and consent of the people. Euseb. hist. lib. 6. cap. 34. Theodoret. lib. 5. cap. 17. Bilson. Christian subject. part. 3. pag. 81, 82, 83, 86. The Question is not whether Bishops shall receive Kings with open and obstinate vices to the Lords Table; but whether they shall chase them from their Kingdomes or no: we mislike not repentance in Princes, but resistance in subjects, &c. But marke what care Au­gustine will have observed, how and when discipline should be administred. They can­not performe the duties of members, they have nor Christ for their head; they are uncapable of the covenant, &c. Is any thing here spoken peculiar to the members of the Church at the first planting thereof, which doth not hold true of the members of the Church established and confirmed? Are not the wicked at all times forbidden to meddle with the ordi­nances of God, uncapable of the covenant, spiritually dead, not fit to have place in the house of God? And if this hold true against such members of the Church at all times, why doe you beare the Reader in hand. That you onely plead against the first building of a Church of such wi [...]ed and ungodly persons? Can. Neces. of Separat. pag. 194, 195. The Question (you say) hath ever been about the true and naturall members, whereof Gods Church is orderly gathered, and planted, and not about the degenerate and decayed estate there­of. But if any of these Reasons will conclude ought, there was never societie to be esteemed the true church of God, all whose members were not Saints and holy, spiritually enlived, fit to performe the duties of members, fitted, prepared and laid or­derly in the building, married to the Lord Christ. What you hold, that is not materiall in this point, but what your Ar­guments conclude: for if they inferre one thing and you main­taine another, of necessitie they are weake, or you are crosse to your selfe, or both. Can. Neces. of Separat. pag. 195. If they shall say, (thus you write) that ob­stinate and incorrigible sinners, may lawfully be suffered therein, This we affirme to be untrue: But if they say, that in a true visible Church, there may be great evills committed, you and along time tolerated, we assent unto it. Howbeit, it is certaine ( as D r. Ames faith) This forbearance is a grievous sinne before God. Of the lawfull toleration of obstinate and incorrigible persons, we have no controversie with you; But if any one reason here be brought by you to the purpose, it cannot be the true Church of God, where any one obstinate knowne offender is suffered, or which hath not right to the holy things of God. That the members of the Church ought to walke in holinesse, you need [Page 72]not prove; but that the Congregation cannot be the true Church of God, where such things are suffered as ought not to be: And yet your Reasons goe higher than so.

For if they be duely examined, whether doe they speake of such as be truly holy, or onely visibly holy? Saints and faith­full in the fight of God, or onely in the eyes and approbation of men? Onely the Saints are capable of the Covenant, spiri­tually alive unto God, married unto Jesus Christ, and have communion with him: onely they are hewen, fitly prepared and layd truely upon the spirituall foundation; onely their service is accepted of God in Jesus Christ. It is nothing here to answer, the members of the Church are such in the judge­ment of charitie: For in the degenerate state, the Church doth not ever consist of such as you confesse: and your reasons here speake of them that be such indeed, in the judgement of truth, quickned by the Spirit, acceptable to God, Saints by Cove­nant, the living members of Jesus Christ, and so heires of sal­vation.

And if we looke into this matter more narrowly, the con­clusion fighteth with the premisses, and doth manifestly over­turne what you would build. Psal. 50.16. Moller. in Psal. 50.16. The wicked are expresly for­bidden to meddle with the Covenant. But those wicked ones to whom the Lord speaketh at that time, more visible mem­bers of the true Church. The wicked make the Church of God (you say) a Synagogue of Satan, Sodome, &c. And doth not the Prophet call them Princes of Sodome, Isa. 1.10. and people of Gomorrah, who were the people of God by covenant, mem­bers of the true Church? Doe they provoke God to spew them out of his mouth, or to remove his Candlesticke? But untill he remove his Candlesticke, or spew them out of his mouth, they continue his Church and people. Ezek. 16.45, 46, 47, &c. Rebellious Judah justified her Sisters Sodome and Samaria, and yet shee continued the Church of God, when they were cast off; A tree unhewen and unprepared is unfit matter for an house, and so are tares, bla­sted corne, and dry eares, to grow together in the field with good corne, as wheat, &c. But the house ceaseth not to be an house, though a piece of timber unprepared be put into it, or the corne field to be a field of corne, because the tares are suffered to abide untill the harvest. A dead man cannot per­form the office of a living member, but instrumentally he may doe the office of a member, or he may be an instrument which [Page 73]the head is pleased to use, for the good of the body; other­wise no hypocrite who is spiritually dead could be any means of good unto the societie. No wicked man is spiritually mar­ried unto Christ, nor hypocrite, but hypocrites and wicked men may be members of the societie which in respect of ex­ternall covenant is married unto Christ, or else the Church of the Jewes was not beloved of him. The godly and wicked are lead by different causes, and so are hypocrites and sincere Christians, but they may be linked together in the same out­ward societie. Hypocrites, you confesse, are members of the Church, untill they be dissevered and cast out: But the upright and the double-hearted are contraries, lead by different causes, and so uncapable of the same forme, to use your phrases.

SECT. IV.

FOr this we have the judgement of the learned also, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 178. In Psal. 15. There must be (saith Mollerus) a profession of true Religion and obedience yeelded thereto, at least, outwardly to become a mem­ber of the visible Church. Beza saith, Anno. in Act. 2.40. He is rightly joyned to the Church, which separates himselfe from the wicked. Paul calls the Romanes Saints (saith Aretius) to put a difference betweene their former estate wherein they lived, In Rom. 1.7. Vol. thes. theolog. pag. 256. which was unholy and im­pure, and the condition to which they were now called. Piscator affirmes the matter of a particular Church to be a company of Beleevers, &c.

ANSVVER.

YOu may easily bring heapes of testimonies for that which these Authors affirme. For I suppose there is not, Marke what care S. Augustine will have observed, how & when discipline should bee used. August. contr Par­menian. lib. 3. ca. 2. If contagion of sin have invaded a multitude, the mercifull severitie of correction from God himselfe is necessary. Nam concilia separatio­nis inania sunt, & perniciosa at (que) sa­crilega; &c. nor e­ver was, godly, orthodox Divine, of another judgement. But that which they say, and you maintaine, are incompati­ble. Their Assertion is taught in Scripture, professed by the godly learned in all ages, and is most evident to right reason, illuminated by faith. But that which you contend for, is nei­ther taught in Scripture, nor confirmed by reason, or profes­sed by godly and learned Authors, ancient or moderne, of one sort or other, parties excepted. For it is one thing to say, the Church is a societie of faithfull people, joyning together in the ordinances of worship: Another, that it is no Church [Page 74]where the ignorant or prophane are tolerated. The first of these is affirmed: The latter is that which you must prove out of those Writers (which you can never doe) or else you abuse both your selfe and them. Order is requisite in every administration of the Church, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 186. as the Apostle teacheth, and chiefly in the collection thereof, you say. But the want of or­der in every point requisite, either in the collection or govern­ment of the Church, doth not make it no Church. You know it is an usuall received distinction, that hypocrites and ungod­ly men are in the Church, but not of the Church. And if at any time you read that notorious offenders are neither of the Church, T. C. repl. 1. pa. 34, 35. nor in the Church; The same Author hath explai­ned himselfe, that when he saith, There be no knowne Drun­kards or Whoremongers in the Church, he speakes of that which should be: T. C. 2. repl. par. 1: pag. 242. As when Paul saith, That the Church of God hath no custome to contend, Aug. de mor. Eccl. cathol. lib. 1. c. 34. Bring me not such Christiās as either know not or keepe not the force of their profession. Rake not after the ruder sort, which even in true Reli­gion are intangled with superstition: my selfe knew ma­ny that are wor­shippers of tombes and pictures. he setteth forth, not that which al­wayes commeth to passe, but what ought to be alwayes. For it may be that contention may continue in a Church many yeares, and yet it cease not to be the true Church of God.

In Mollerus I can finde nothing that makes to your purpose, but many things directly against you. First, he entreateth in that Psalme of the true lively members of the Church, and therefore your glosse (at least outwardly) corrupteth the Text. Thus in the argument of the Psalme he writeth; Osten­dit qui sint cultus, aut opera quae Deo placeant, & quomodo vera & viva membra, Ecclesia ab hypocritis & alijs manifestè impijs, discerni possint & debeant. And in the whole Psalme he shew­eth that he speaketh of the living members of the Church, for whom salvation is prepared, and to whom it is reserved, and not of visible members onely. Thus upon the first verse, Ʋ [...]i­tur autem hoc verbo, August. contr. Par. lib. 3. cap. 2. It can­not be an health­full reproving by many, but when he that is reproved hath no number to take his part. But if the same disease hath possessed ma­ny, the good have nothing left for them to doe, but to sorrow & mourne. ut ostendat discrimen inter perpetuos Eccle­siae, cives, [...] inquilinos, seu hypocritas; qui ad tempus sunt illis permisti. Hi enim etiamsi venditent se pro veris Ecclesiae mem­bris, externâ prefessione, & observatione rituum: tamen quia ve­râ & solidâ pietate carent, & varijs sordibus sunt polluti, tandem judicio divino separabuntur à veris Ecclesiae membris. And in his third observation upon the first Verse; Quia saepè contingit, Ecclesiam Dei multis inquinamentis deforment cernere, ne quis ad hoc scandalum impingat, discrimen constituendum est, inter perpe­tuos Ecclesiae cives & inquilinos, qui ad tempus sunt illis permisti. Damnandi igitur sunt Anabaptisti, qui non putant veram esse Ec­clesiam, [Page 75]quae vitia quaedane tolerare cogitur. If this be not suffi­cient, see what he hath upon the fifth Verse. And his observa­tions upon the first and fifth Verses. But what you alledge out of him I cannot finde.

M r. Beza hath that which you cite out of him, but he mea­neth nothing lesse, than that a Christian should separate from the Church and ordinances of grace, because ungodly men are suffered, which should be removed but are not. Bezae Annot. Ma­jor in Act. 2.40. In his Ma­jor Annotations, he explaineth himselfe thus; Expresse usus est hoc verbo Lucas, Bezae, epist. 2. pag. 28, 29. Nec enim ut ritè ad caenam accedam, ut scrutandum est mihi quâ quisque conscientiâ ad eam mecum accedat, sed de meâ ipsius con­scientia mihi labo­randum est. It aque & cum Adulteris, & cum Homicidis, et cum sceleratisst­mis quibusvis, me­dò nulla meâ culpâ tales sint, si ad caenam castus & sceleris puras ac­cessero, nihil illorū impuritas, mihi no­cuerit. Et quod de moribus duo etiam de doctrina, dico, quod interdum nec pastores, satis pu­rā tradunt, nec au­ditores satis recte percipiunt. Dicam etiā amplius si vel Turcam vel Judeū Past or quispiā sive prudenter sive im­prudenter admitte­ret, tota illius facti culpa, in illum reci­deret, nec ego prop­terea oūctanter ad mēsam Domini ac­cesserò, &c. ut ostenderet ipsarum animarum salutem po­sitam esse in discessione à prophanorum caetibus. But the Church of God, wherein prophane persons are suffered to abide, is not the congregation of prophane men in M r. Beza's judge­ment, from which we must depart. Let this or that be faulti­ly done or pretermitted of some (saith he) are they not there­fore Christians, or to be esteemed brethren? But they will say, This is at least to communicate in their sinne, nay, this confe­quence is most false. For if I come prepared to the Supper, I am not to search with what conscience any man doth come to it with me, but I must take care of mine owne conscience. Therefore if I come to the Supper, chaste and free from wic­kednesse, though I communicate with adulterers, with mur­derers, and with most wicked wretches, so they be such by no fault of mine, their impuritie shall not hurt me. And what I speake of manners, I also say of doctrine, which sometimes the Pastours doe not purely deliver, nor the hearers receive well and holily. I will say more, if some Pastour either igno­rantly or advisedly, should admit a Jew or Turke, the whole fault of that fact shall fall upon him, and I would not come no more slackly to the Table of the Lord; because his impure conscience, so I be without fault, doth not pollute mine which is pure; and that very Supper is pure to me, which that im­pure person prophaneth. Thus Beza. And this may be shewed to be the constant judgement of all orthodox Divines, not parties in this case, and it is a thing so well knowne, that it is superfluous labour to examine the rest particularly. And here let it be noted, That it is usuall to define the Church by the better part, by the true and living, chiefe principall and perpetuall members, partakers of the royalties and liberties of the catholike Church, knit unto Christ, quickned by the Spirit, heires of salvation, & one with the triumphant church: [Page 76]And not by all sorts, as in outward societie and profession are linked together, who yet are not excluded from the societie in respect of profession, nor denied to be members of the Church in their kinde or in a sort such as are called onely by externall vocation, are members in their kinde of that com­pany called, or externally selected, but not true members of the Church militant, nor militant members of the Church catholique, whereof Christ is the head. And thus the church is a company of faithfull people, sincere, upright, walking with God, which is mixed with hypocrites and wicked li­vers, not as living members of Jesus Christ, but as members in a sort of the visible societie; as members in the church by out­ward profession, but not of the true militant church.

SECT. V.

BEfore I end this point, Neces. of Separat. p. 179, 180, 181. Babel no Bethel. pag. 108. Chall. ca. 1. pag 33, 34. I will here lay downe some few Syllo­gismes, intirely made up, between the Inconformists and Con­formists, all concluding the forenamed position, That Church which hath not a lawfull Ministery, is not a true visible Church: But the Church of England hath not a true lawfull Ministery: Ergo, The Church of England is not a true visible Church. The propo­sition is affirmed of the Conformists, Sutcl. Chal. pa. 40. and answ. to the except. pag. 65. as Burton, Sutcliffe. The Assumption is granted by the Nonconformists, as we have in the first chapter largely shewed. The true visible Church of Christ is a societie of beleeving and faithfull people, and a communion of Saints, so say the Conformists. But the Church of England is not a societie of beleeving and faithfull people, a communion of Saints (thus write the Nonconformists, see page 169.) Ergo, the Church of England is not the true visible Church. The true Church is the Kings daughter, described in Psalme 45. But the Church of Eng­land is not the Kings daughter so described. Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. Burton. answer to Hicholia. pag. 100. The proposition is laid downe by the Conformists, whereby they prove Rome a false Church. The Assumption is the Nonconformists; For if they say the truth, their members have not those qualities belonging to the Kings daughter, neither the Priest nor people. See pag. 15.16. 39.137 [...] 69.170. The true Church of Christ is the flocke of Christ [...] the Church of England is not the true flock of Christ, therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. The proposition (say the Conformists) is undeniable: Burtō in the same Booke, pag. 99. Song. 1.6, 7, [Page 77]Act: 20.28. Joh: 10.16. The [...]e Assumption is proved by the Nonconformists Principles, compared; with Joh. 10.3, 4.27. Christs flocke heare his voice, and live it and follow it. But the Church of England submitting to a [...] unlawfull Minisstery; wor­ship, and discipline; heare not Christs voice, nor know; nor acknow­ledge, nor follow it, but the voyce of Antichrist. The Church of God doth keepe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets, without addition, alteration or corruption; (thus the Conformists.) Sutcl. Chal. cap. 1. pag. 6. arg. 9. But the Church of England keepes not the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets, without addition, alteration and corruption, say the Non­conformists; Sec pag; 108, Ergo, shee is not the Church of God. No societie can be tearmed Gods Church, which retaineth not Gods true worship (this the Conformists.) But the Church of Eng­land doth not retaire Gods true worship, say the Nonconformists. See pag. 78 to the 213. Ergo, The same Booke, pag. 13. arg. 19. shee cannot be tearmed Gods church. The true Church consisteth not of fierce. Lyons, Wolves, Tigres, and such like wilde and fierce beasts; But of Sheepe, and Lambes, which learne of Christ, and are meeke, humble, gentle, &c. So say the Conformists. But the English Church doth consist of Lyons, Id. pag. 27. arg. [...]. Wolves, Tigres, and such like wilde and fierce beast's, and not of Sheepe and Lambes, which learne of Christ, and are meeke, hum­ble, and gentle, &c. Thus the Nonconformists; see pag. 31. &c. 145.169. Therefore it is not the true Church. Here the Reader seeth cleerely how the Conformists Majors and the Nonconformists Minors, make up intire Syllogismes, of Separation; And how they will be able to loose these knots, I know not; except by revoking ut­terly their own grounds, which if either of them doe; yet I doubt not but we shall be well enough able to maintaine them against men.

ANSVVER.

YOu please your selfe with the same Song, which here we have over againe and againe, tuned with the same art. But that which you talke of the Conformists Majors and the Inconformists Minors (your slanders set aside:) is idle and toyish. For in that matter there is no difference betwixt the Conformists and the Inconsormists. The Conformists Majors as they are truely meant, the Inconformists doe assent unto: And the abuse of ignorance, idlenesse, prophanenesse, both of Ministers & people, whereof the Nonconformists complaine; the Conformists doe acknowledge and bewaile. And your [Page 78]selfe a little after in a matter of the same nature affirme, that herein you say no more, than what in effect is fully acknow­ledged, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 193. by the Nonconformists, Conformists, the Church of England, the learned generally, and all the reformed Chur­ches upon earth: and for proofe you quote the same Authors you here all edge. And why then doe you trifle thus with the Conformists Major, and Inconformists Minor? Did the sound of those words please you so well? But let the Majors and Mi­nors be whose they will, no intire or perfect Syllogismes of Separatisme can be made up of them, but such as ignorance in not understanding, or an evill conscience in perverting or fal­sifying their sayings, doth conclude. They may well stand to their grounds and unloose those knots, and if they under­stand their owne principles, they cannot but untie them. But how you can free your selfe from the guilt of an evill consci­ence, unlesse you recant what you have written, repent of your Separation, and acknowledg the wrong you have done to the Nonconformists, by misreporting, perverting and falsifying their principles, as you call them; I leave to your serious con­sideration, and the reexamination of what you have done.

For the right understanding of the Conformists propositi­ons (I [...] speake in your phrase) against the Church of Rome, we must note, That the Romanists hold the Church of Rome to be the catholique Church of Christ here on earth, under the Pope the Head; in which sense their propositions are to be understood: For the true catholique militant Church is a faithfull people, a communion of Saints, the flocke of Christ, that heareth his voyce, keepeth the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles, without addition or alteration, and worshippeth God truly according to his will: And there is truly and pro­perly no member of the militant Church catholique, which doth not this sincerely in truth and measure. But they never thought nor taught, that every member in a sort, of the visi­ble Churches, were holy and sincere, the true sheepe of Christ faithfull, and effectually called: much lesse, that it was no Church of Christ, wherein abuses were to be found, or ungod­ly prophane men were tolerated. The Bils. The diffe­rence between chri­stium subject par. 1. pag. 92. These ( se. the Church mili­tant & triumphāt) be not two but one Church. Jerusalem which is above, is the mother of us all. Gal. 4. Yee be now, saith Paul, no more strangers and forreiners, but Citizens with the Saints, and of the houshold of God, Eph. 2. For you be come to the Citie of the living God, and Heb. 12. where you see the Saints in heaven, be not removed from the Church of God, but be received to their fellowship. Id. part 2. p. 230. The Church in heaven, is it another Church from this on earth, or the same? Certainly, Christ hath but one body which it his Church, and of that body seeing the Saints ( sc. in heaven) be the greater and worthier part, they must be counted the same church with us. Church militant and triumphant, are not two Kingdomes, but two degrees of one [Page 79]Kingdome. The Church visible and invisible are not two Churches, but distinct considerations of the same Church. If then we speake of true, sound, living, chiefe, principle members of the militant Church, such as partake in all the royalties and priviledges of members, every member of the Church militant is a true branch in the Vine, knit firmely un­to Christ, quickned by the Spirit, and shall be an inheriter of eternall glory. But if we speake of members in a sort of visible societies, so hypocrites may be members, and ungodly men, as they are tolerated in the societie, when the better part can­not reforme or amend them.

But to the Arguments in order.

First, The Church may be true though the Ministery be de­ficient in the order of calling, qualification of persons, and execution of their office: But that Church is false whose Mi­nistery is altogether false for substance of their office, that is the doctrine which they teach, Sacraments which they admi­nister, and functions whereunto they are set apart. Thus the Conformists and Inconformists both. Now if we speake of the Ministery of the Church of England, indefinitly, both Con­formists and Inconformists will confesse some things to be faulty both in the entrance and execution of their callings; as that some are ignorant, proud, covetous, carelesse, corrupt, not watching over the flocke: But absolutely that their Mini­stery is false in respect of the substance of their office, that was never said by either of them, as you doe or might well know. The knot to be unloosed now remaineth in your conscience, in that either you aequivocate in your Major, or against know­ledge, charge the Nonconformists in your Minor, with that which they never said.

Secondly, The true Church of Christ, that is, the true and lively members of the militant church, and militant members of the catholique church, is a company of The true Church is an universall cō ­gregation or fel­lowship of Gods faithfull and elect people, built upon the foundations of the Prophets and Apostles, Christ Iesus himselfe, be­ing the head cor­ner stone. And it hath alwayes three notes or markes whereby it is knowne; pure and sound doctrine, the Sacraments ministred according to Christs holy institution, and the right use of Ecclesiasticall discipline, Hom. 2. booke, hom. for Whites. 2. part. The Church consisteth not of men, but of faithfull men, and they be the Church, not in respect of flesh and bloud, which came from earth, but of truth and grace, which came from Heaven. Bilson. Christ. Subject. part 2. pag. 231. faithfull people, a communion of Saints, the true flock of Christ, which heare, know, acknowledge, beleeve, and obey the voyce of Christ; the kings daughter which is all glorious within, knit to Christ [Page 80]and married unto him: But in this societie there are mixed not onely secret hypocrites, but fierce Lyons, Tigres, Wolves, Beares, wicked Teachers, and ungodly livers. Thus the Con­formists and Inconformists. And in this sense the Church of England is a societie of faithfull and beleeving people, the flocke of Christ, the Kings daughter, quickned by the Spirit, enriched with grace, decked with Gods ordinances, walking in sincere constant conscionable obedience, though in out­ward societie and profession, mixed with many ignorant, vaine prophane persons, who have received the presse-money of Christ, but indeed fight under the Devils banner, as doe all hypocrites and ungodly wretches; that is, in the Church of England, there be some truely of the Church which heare the voyce of Christ, mixed with those which in words professe Christ, but in their deeds deny him: Thus the Conformists and Nonconformists. The knot here lyeth onely in an aequi­vocation or grosse abuse of the word Church, which sometimes notes the whole visible societie, linked in an externall profes­sion, and sometimes the true and living members of Jesus Christ, against which the gates of hell shall not prevaile.

Thirdly, The Deo dat. Ital. Ioh. 10.1. The sheepe are the true faith­full, endued with spirituall light and discretion. sheepe of Christ doe heare his voyce, but what sheepe? not all that be sheepe in profession, but all that be sheepe indeed and truth, effectually called and gathered in­to Christ [...] sheep-fold. They heare, that is, acknowledge, be­leeve and obey Christs voyce sincerely, but not perfectly, ful­ly, and compleatly: for the faithfull may erre of frailtie and infirmitie, both in faith and manners: sometimes they are mislead through ignorance, drawne aside by passions, foiled by temptations. Christs sheepe doe obey his voyce, but Bils. Christ. sub­ject. part 2. pa. 233. The Church is not simply a number of men; for Infidels, heretickes, and hy­pocrites, are not the Church, but men regenerate by the Word & Sacra­ments, truely ser­ving God, accor­ding to the Gos­pell of his Sonne, and sealed by the Spirit of grace, a­gainst the day of Redemption. all that are linked with them in outward societie, doe not sin­cerely obey, not yet in conversation fashion themselves to the direction and commandement of Jesus Christ. And thus the Church of England, that is, the true and faithfull people in those societies, doe heare and obey the voyce of Christ in truth, others mixed with them doe heare and professe but not obey. If the Church doe erre, it is of ignorance, nor of wil­fulnesse, or stubbornnesse: In matters of lesse importance, not fundamentall or bordering thereupon: It is the errour of some onely, add not of the whole Church, which errours Gratian. decret. par. 2. ca. 24. qu. 1. cap. 9. A rectae in Gloss. Novitati­bus. Ipsa congrega­tio fidelium, hic di­citur Ecclesia, & [...] Ecclesia non potest nonesse. cannot make that shee is not the flocke of Christ. The knot here to be unloosed, is your sinne in charging that upon the [Page 81]Nonconformists, the contrary whereto they have ever main­tained.

Fourthly, In the true Church of Christ, the true doctrine of Jesus Christ, the Prophets and Apostles in matters funda­mentall is kept, but so as the living members may erre both in doctrine and manners, and others in societie with them may erre grossely, impenitently, finally. And thus the Church of England doth keepe the doctrine of Chaloner. Credo Sanct. 2 part, sub­ject. The church in respect of its out­ward part (as it en­ters the Creed) is not onely an out­ward profession of a doctrine or disci­pline, but a profes­sion of the same under the notion of truth. And that the Church in this sense is invisible. Gregory de Valent. confes. in his third Tom. upō Thomas disp. 1 qu. 1. pag. 7. sect. 16. and Bel­larm. in his third Book de Eccles. ca. 15. Bilson Christ. subject. par. 3. pag. 305. The visible Church consisting of good and bad, elect & reprobate, hath no such pro­mise, but shee may erre: only the cho­sen of christ, which are the true mem­bers of his body, properly called his Church, they shall not erre unto per­dition, &c. Christ, the Prophets and Apostles intirely without addition or alteration, though in the government and administration there be many things a­misse; though in the societie there be many who be not qua­lified as sheepe, humble and meeke, but fierce and cruell.

Fifthly, No societie is the Church of Christ, which retai­neth not the true worship of God, but in the true Church of God, his pure worship may be stained with rites and cere­monies, which might well be spared, and are justly disliked. Thus both Conformists and Nonconformists, and all other sorts and sects of men. And thus in the Church of England, the true worship of God is for substance rightly maintained, though the Nonconformists dislike, and the Conformists groane under some ceremonies not abandoned, The onely knot here to be unloosed againe is your slander against the Nonconformists, in that you charge them to say, that the Church of England doth not retaine the true worship of God.

And now I shall desire you calmely to consider how ac­cording to your principles you can untie a knot or two, if they should be knit for you in this wise.

First, He is no true Pastor of Jesus Christ, who grossely perverteth the Scripture, falsifieth Authors, deceiveth with aequivocations, condemneth the true worship of God as per­nicious idolatrie, and the Jewell upon the first to the Thes. chap. 1. v. 1. The Church of God is in God the Father, and in the Lord Iesus Christ; it is the company of the faithfull, whom. God hath gathered together in Christ, by his Word, and by the holy Ghost, to honour him, as he himselfe hath appointed. This Church heareth the voyce of the Shepheard. It will not follow a stranger, but flyeth from him. Of this Church. Hieron. in Mic. lib. 1. cap. 1. saith, Ecclesia Christi in toto orbe Ecclesias possi­dens, &c. societies of Saints as idolatrous and Antichristian Assemblies, and laboureth to draw Chri­stians from the communion of Saints, which ought to be kept and maintained. Examine your writings in the feare of God, and adde the proposition wanting.

Secondly, He is no true Minister who derives his authoritie from them that are not able to give it. But he that derives his authoritie from the people, derives it from them that have no authoritie to give it. You know the conclusion, and where it will light.

Thirdly, The true Church of God is the true flock of Christ, the Kings Daughter, quickened by the Spirit, married unto Christ, gentle, meeke, humble, retaining the true worship of God, without addition or alteration, and keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace; But the societie of Separa­tists is not the true flocke of Christ, quickned by the Spirit, humble, meeke, gentle, keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace. These properties doe not agree to all and eve­ry one in that societie in truth, according as in the former propositions, you say, they belong to the true Church of God. If you shall be able to maintaine the former propositions a­gainst men, as you vaunt, I doe not beleeve you shall be able to unloose these few knots.

CHAP. V.

SECT. I.

IT may be some will expect that I should write some­thing of their Lecturers; Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 49, 50. and the rather because they in the judgement of many, are thought to be the best Ministers. Of their life and doctrine I say no­thing. But as for their Ministery, surely it is new and strange. For the Originall of their name, manner of entrance, and Administration, is unknowne wholly to the Scriptures, and I thinke never before heard of, till in these latter broken and confused times. Therefore it is no marvell, when the Question hath beene propounded to some of them, as it was by the Pharisees to John, Who art thou? That they have not been able for their life to an­swer [Page 83]to answer the point. Neither could agree among themselves what kinde of Ministery it is that they have taken up. And being hard pressed for resolution, they have ingenuously confessed, that unlesse they be Evangelists, they could not see how their Ministery doth accord with any Ministery mentioned in the New Testament. This I write upon my owne certain knowledge, the persons I thinke are yet living, whose names for some reason I forbeare to expresse. Howbeit, I can and will doe it if I see there be a just and necessary occasion.

I doe not thinke it strange that they should thus speake: for in­deed I know not what they can say better in defence of their stand­ing. Pastours, I am sure, they will not say they are: For,

First, They doe not take any particular charge of a flocke upon them.

Secondly, They performe not the office thereof, for they agree with the people onely to preach, and not to administer either the seales or censures to them.

Thirdly, Their comming unto the people is in a strange sort: for they make a covenant each with other for some certaine yeares, and when that time is out, both parties are free, and so may leave one the other, and doe many times: but a true Pastour may not doe so: For if he should he were worse than an hireling which leaves not the sheepe till he see the Wolfe comming. But many of these when they see a richer Lectureship comming towards them.

Fourthly, He that is a Parson or Vicar, is taken generally for the Minister of the place. And truely, howsoever their calling be false and Anttchristian (as the Nonconformists say) yet in many respects they doe better resemble a true Minister than any Lectu­rer whatsoever. Therefore not without just cause, Neces. of Discipl. pag. 74. doe the Refor­mists utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers: And affirme, that they are neither Pastours nor Teachers which the Scripture alloweth of.

ANSVVER.

THis point concerning Lecturers, I have purposely defer­red unto this place, because it is distinct from the former in your apprehension, and in this you doe not pretend the Nonconformists principles, as you did in the former. The exceptions also which you take against them, are not in re­spect of gifts, learning, or diligence, nor that they are brought [Page 84]into the Church by Antichrist, but chiefly in respect of the office and Ministery it selfe. That which you object concer­ning the name, that it is new (as you doe before against Par­sons, Vicars, and Curates, that they are Popish) is too slight to be insisted upon. For these and divers other names or titles given to the Preachers of the Word, doe not note different Ministeries for substance and kinde, but different accidents whereby the Ministers are distinguished, and sometimes the employment whereabout they are principally exercised. But the Ministery which is exercised under those names, is for substance one and the same, which Christ hath appointed and set his Church. If any man hath not been able to answer this Question when it hath been propounded, what kinde of Ministery the Lecturers have taken up, it was from his weak­nesse, not from the difficultie of the matter. And this is no marvaile, seeing many Questions seeme Riddles to you, which very easily untie themselves, or be knit in conceit one­ly. As to the Papists many Questions touching the certaintie of our Religion, the calling of our Ministers, the continuance of the faith, seeming indissoluble, which a true hearted Chri­stian can quickly dissolve. But you write upon certaine know­ledge, that some have ingenuously confessed, that unlesse they be Evangelists, they could not see how their Ministery doth accord with any Ministery mentioned in the New Testament.

I am not so diffident as to distrust every word that is spo­ken, nor must I be so simple as to beleeve every thing. In the quoting of mens words in writing, and giving the sense of them, I finde you trip so often ignorantly or upon set pur­pose; and so many times to quote that as making for you, which is as direct against you as can be spoken, that without breach of charitie, I may suspect some such thing in this par­ticular; either that you mistooke their meaning, or misrelate their words, or set downe your owne consequence for their position, or the like. Instances of your mistaking enough hath beene formerly mentioned, in this very place there be two of no small note, nor hard to be disproved. First you say, The Nonconformists condemne the calling of Parsons and Vicars (their office you meane) as false and Antichristian. But their practice and profession both, doth evidence the con­trary to the whole world, as hath beene shewed. And if you will mistake their writings so palpably and againe and againe [Page 85]affirme them from their writings, what is not there to be found, but is direct contrary to their judgement, writing and practice, how can we beleeve that you truely report their words. Secondly, you say; The Reformists doe utterly con­demne this extraordinary office of Preachers. Lecturers you un­derstand by extraordinary Preachers; but extraordinary they are not, either in respect of their calling, or the worke wherein they are imployed. And the Nonconformists are so farre from condemning that office, that it is well knowne ma­ny, if not the greatest part of them, had none other calling, or office in the Church. And I presume every reasonable man, will conceive it an unlikely thing, that so many godly and learned men, suffering many and great troubles against other abuses, should choose to live in such a calling, against the light of their conscience. Can. Neces of [...] ­parat. pag. [...] & 210. 2 [...]3. If Dr. And [...] not boasted of [...] mans booke, &c. Id. pag. 224 This is the booke which Mr. Paget upbraids us with. Arr. a­gainst Separat. pag. 38. And you know some have maintai­ned, (whose judgement therein and workes are approved by others of the same ranke,) That the Ministery of godly Prea­chers (and so of Lecturers) in the Church of England, in all substantiall and essentiall parts, is that very Ministery which Christ hath instituted and ordained in the New Testament, and which he hath blessed for the gathering and building for­ward of his Church in faith and holinesse.

It is not then the common judgement of the Reformists, nor the private opinion of any particular man of that minde, that I have seene or heard of, that the office or calling of a Lecturer is utterly to be condemned. Who the Author is, or what the worke which you quote, entituled, The Necessitie of Discipline, I know not, nor what he saith.

Perhaps you alledge him, as you have done others wrong­fully; It may be he speakes of some circumstances, not of the substance of the calling. If he goe any further, it is his private conceit, and must not be imputed to the Reformists, as you stile them.

We neede not here dispute of the difference, betwixt the Pastour and the Teacher, nor to enquire whether of these they are to be esteemed, untill the difference betwixt them be exactly defined, and substantially proved: If for substance of Ministery they doe the worke of the Lord Jesus, and by his approbation, this sufficeth.

First then here it is to be noted, that the Officers of the Church are not so distinguished by heir speciall limits and [Page 86]bounds, but the superiour may doe the office of the rest, if ne­cessitie require. As if the societie be small, meet Officers can­not be had, or be wanting for a time, or taken away by death, The Pastour may supply the roome of the Teacher, Elder, or Deacon, that is, he may teach, watch over the manners of the people, and take speciall care of the poore, as the Apostles did for a time.

Secondly, If the Pastour be aged, weake, sickly, unable to beare the burden of his charge alone, he may take unto him, with consent of the societie and colledge Ecclesiasticall, Assi­sters or Helpers; Videl. in Ignat: ad Mariam. exercit. 3. Ʋt tam praesentes in urbe sublevarentur, quam ut absentibus ipsis, Ecclesiae pastoribus destituta non esset, delegerunt (scil. Apostoli) sibi coadjutores: Quod nominatim ex Epiphanio heres. Sozom. hist. lib. 2. cap. 19. Euseb. lib. 6. ca. 10. Gr. 27. apparet. Tales fuerunt hi tres, Clemens, Linus, Cletus, Aut, ut noster Author ait, Anacletus. So Maxi­mus helped Macarius untill his death; and Augustine Vale­rius. And if the Pastour be carelesse or negligent, it is law­full for the people to provide for themselves, by the best meanes that they can, or God is pleased to afford unto them, that they might be taught and instructed in the wayes of ho­linesse.

Thirdly, Pastours are to feede the flocke committed unto their care, yet so as many Pastours may be set over one flock, which they must feede in common. And to this purpose some write, A dispute, par. 3. cap. 8. pag. 170. that the Apostolique and Primitive times, knew nei­ther Parishionall nor Diocesan Churches, but Christians li­ved then in Cities onely, not in Villages because of the per­secution. Act. 20.27, 28. Phil. 1.1. 1 Thes. 5.12. Act. 13.2. & 15.2. Col. 4.11. Iames 5.14. Epiphan. haeres. 27. Ignat. ad Tralleus. Sozom. li. 4. ca. 14. Euseb. hist. lib. 6. cap. 10, 11. Gr. ca. 9. lat. Gratian. Decret. part 2. cap 7. qu. 1. can. 12. And it is to be remembred, that in Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, Philippi, Colosse, Thessalonica, and such other Ci­ties, inhabited by Christians, there were more Pastours than one, which did in common governe all the Churches within that Citie, and there was not any one Pastour, who by him­selfe, governed a certaine part of the Citie peculiarly assigned to his charge. Thus also the Ancients write, that Peter and Paul, were the first Bishops and Apostles at Rome. Paul had Linus and Timothy; Peter, Clemens and Anacletus. Liberius and Felix, both governed the Apostolicall Seat: Valerius and Augustine, Narcissus and Alexander in the Church of Hippo. It is apparent, the Apostles ordained many Overseers in one societie, and it is not repugnant either to Scripture or rea­son, to thinke there might be many Pastours of one flocke; [Page 87]And the flocke might be one under the joynt care of many Shepheards, Bilson. perpet. Go­ver. ca. 10. pa. 155. Every church with them had many Prophets, Pastours and Teachers, the number and neede of the people, and time so requiring. T. C. repl. l. pa. 34. though they did not ordinarily meete together in one place. For to assemble together in one place, is meere­ly accidentall to the unitie of a societie: Certaine it is, in times of persecution they cannot so meete; and it is most probable, in the Apostles times, many Churches were too populous in that manner to assemble together. Those that know the state of France in time of persecution, doe well understand that every Church almost was gathered of Townes, whereof some were six miles, some seven, some more from the place of mee­ting, and keeping their Congregations. And therefore could not meete so often, nor know one another so well, as we by the grace of God may doe.

Fourthly, No one Pastour or Teacher hath the power of the censures belonging unto him, and whether the power of dispensing the Seales belong to every Minister of the Gospell, I leave it to your consideration, (for I know not what you will resolve) but the actuall dispensation of the Seales may be forborne by some, to whom the right of dispencing doth ap­pertaine, specially when there be others at hand to doe that office. The Apostles had power to baptize, 1 Cor. 1.14, 15, 16. Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 236. but we may well thinke, they did not ordinarily baptize themselves. It is pos­sible (you say) a man may be a true Ecclesiasticall Officer, and yet never doe the services thereof.

Fifthly, The Minister of the Gospell is not made abso­lutely a Minister by the choice or election of this or that peo­ple, but onely their Minister for the time of his abode and continuance with them. Lay these things together, and then your exceptions against the office of Lecturers will vanish. For if they have not the chiefe charge or cure of soules, they be not sole Pastours or Teachers of the flocke; but joyned in care or charge with others as Helpers or Assistants, or chosen by the people to supply the want of such as should, but doe not feed the flocke. If they dispence not the Seales, neither is that necessary in respect of their standing: for right and power from Christ they have to dispence them, but in the execution of that power they may be hindred, or forbeare it for a time. If they leave their place being lawfully called to another flocke, it may be with consent of the societie and of the Church, and what then doth make it unlawfull? or if the charge should be unlawfull, it doth not make the Ministery strange or new, which is the thing in question.

SECT. II.

THat Ministery which is instituted and set up besides those which God hath appointed in his Word, Neces. of Separat. pag. 51, 52. is unlawfull and false. But the Ministery of Lecturers in England is instituted and set beside these, which God hath appointed in his Word. Therefore that Ministery is unlawfull and false. The proposition is plaine and un­deniable, and we have their owne words to confirme it. For thus they say, All the Ministery is by the Word of God, and not left to the will of man to devise at their pleasure, as appeareth by that which is noted of John, where the Pharisees comming to him, after that he had denied to be either Christ, or Elias, or another Pro­phet, conclude if he be neither Christ nor Elias, nor of the Pro­phets, why baptizest thou? Which had been no good argument, if John might have been of other function, than of those which were ordinary in the Church, T. C. repl, 1. pa. 62, 63. and instituted of God, &c. Againe to de­vise another Ministery, than that which God hath appointed, is condemned by the second Commandement.

The Assumption is thus proved. First if their Lecturers have taken ordination from the Bishops, and exercise by that power one­ly, then is their office false, by the reasons before laid downe. Se­condly, If it be objected, that they never received the Prelates or­ders, or have repented thereof, I answer, This proves not that they are therefore true Ministers. For as Jehu, though he did well to suppresse Ahabs idolatrie, yet in that he followed the wayes of Je­roboam, he himselfe continued still a grosse Idolater: Even so; howsoever some may privately report, that they stand Ministers by no relation to the Bishops, yet are they notwithstanding unlaw­full Ministers, seeing they were never elected, chosen, ordained according to Gods Word. If any reply, that they have their calling of the people: I answer, the thing is surely otherwise, as shall be manifested presently. But if this were granted, yet I deny that a­ny Church under heaven, hath power from Christ to ordaine such a kinde of Ministery, and therefore if any people should doe it, seeing it is against the Scripture, it must needs follow, that it is an unlawfull Ministery, and so consequently not to be communicated with.

ANSVVER.

YOu are strangely taken with this note; for you have brought nothing but a bare repetition, of what you have [Page 89]said over and over. If you speake of the substantiall and essen­tiall parts of the Ministery, it is freely granted, that the true Ministery is by the word of God, and heavenly. But if you ex­tend it to every circumstantiall order, whereby in this or that Societie, the Minister is to execute the function he hath recei­ved of God, it is not approved. But of this you need not to have made so many words. To your assumption, answer hath been returned already.

First, That the Ministers of the Gospell receive their office and authoritie, neither from the Bishop, Patron, people, or Colledge Ecclesiasticall, but from Christ immediately, whose servants they are, in whose name they minister, whose flocke they attend, and who hath assigned them their worke. And if you receive your Ministery from the people, as their ser­vant, from whom you derive your office and authoritie, and from whom you receive your Commission; your Ministery in that respect is no lesse false and antichristian, than theirs that derive it from the Bishops.

Secondly, If Lecturers have received ordination from the Bishops, and be called and chosen by the people, their calling is just and lawfull, according to the rules of Scripture, and their Ministery heavenly and from above, if they preach the intire faith, and feed the flocke of God. For they preach the pure doctrine of salvation, not by authoritie from men, but by commission from the chiefe Shepheard and Bishop of our soules: their calling may be justified by the Word and war­rant of truth, which shall stand for ever; the more hainous and fearefull is your sinne, in matching the Ministery of such men, to the idolatry of Jehu.

Thirdly, You are bold to affirme, That no Church under Heaven, hath power from Christ to ordaine such a kinde of Ministery, &c. And it is true, the Church hath no power to ordaine any Ministery; for Christ is the Author and institu­tour of the Ministery for his Church. But your meaning is, That this kinde of Ministery is against the Scripture not or­dained, and then if we call for your proofe, we have nothing here, but I deny it. Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 217. You take up M r Br. (how well it becomes you, let the Reader judge) as a bold Sophister, because he makes flat deniall of expressed truthes. As thus, I say it is false, I deny it, &c. As if the weight of an argument were sufficient­ly removed by empty denials. But when you should make [Page 90]proofe of what you affirme, it sufficeth you to say I deny, or this proves it not: or I have proved from their writings; when you have falfified them onely. And if an empty deniall be not sufficient answer to an empty affirmation, it is very strange. Bilson Christ. sub­ject. par. 1. p. 41. I may justly say to you, as D r Bilson to the Papist whom he answered; If great vaunts were sound proofes, the victory were yours; you have words and cracks at will, they cost you nothing.

SECT. III.

THat it is so I prove it thus; Neces. of Separat. pag. 53. That Ministery is unlawfull, which none may lawfully give. But none may lawfully bestow the Ministery of a Lecturer. Therefore that Ministery is unlaw­lawfull. The Assumption for shame cannot be denied, if the nature of it be considered. For as we but even now said, their Lecturers take no charge of a flocke upon them, they make covenant we [...]h the people, but for a certaine time; the peculiar worke of a Minister is not by the people laid upon them, weither expected of them. If any object, that they preach the Word. To this D r Ames gives an an­swer fully, that the preaching of the Gospell is not a worke peculiar to a Minister: for such as are private men, and out of office, may and ought to preach the Word, as occasion is offered, and not onely privately, but, saith he, in the publique Congregation, &c.

ANSVVER.

VVE have here the same thing over againe, and when all is said, it is but this, I deny it, or I say it. The assumption cannot for shame be denied. The proposition rightly understood is true and sound, but it may carry divers constructions. As first, the meaning may be, That Ministery is for substance unlawfull, which none may lawfully give to such or such persons, scil. to such as be unfit or prophane. And in this sense, the proposition is not sound. For the Mini­stery is unlawfully committed to an ungodly man, an hypo­crite, but the Ministery it selfe is heavenly, and from above. Or the sense may be, That Ministery is unlawfull which men may not lawfully give virtually or formally: And then it is weake; For Pastours and Teachers are the gifts of Christ un­to his Church, from whom they receive their office, and not [Page 91]from men, Or it may beare this sense. That Ministery is un­lawfull, which none may lawfully give in such forme, and manner, as it is executed? And then it is lyable to exception. For of right the power of administration of the Seales and Censures of the Church, belong to the Pastours, Teachers, and Governours of the Church; when in the execution of this office, they may be hindred. It is lawfull to be an assistant or helper to a Pastour for a time, when it is not lawfull to give the office of Ministery to a man for a time onely, and then to expire. To the assumption; The Lecturers of whom we speak, have derived their office from the Lord Jesus Christ, by the Ministery of his Church, as instruments, their entrance into it lawfull, the service and worke it selfe holy, the manner of performing it warrantable, and the authoritie they have re­ceived the same which Christ hath communicated to the Mi­nisters of the Gospell. To publish the truth by way of instru­ction or exhortation, is not peculiar to the Ministers of the Gospell, but by authoritie, [...] [...]cu­liar to the Minister. For the Scripture joyneth together the preaching of the Word, and dispensation of the Seales, as both belonging to the Officers, Math. 28.19. 1 Cor. 1. who have received commission from Jesus Christ. And if private persons may preach the Word in this sense, we see no reason why they may not administer the Sacraments likewise, and so the Governours of the Church shall have power to doe nothing, which every private mem­ber of the societie may not doe as well as they. But Lecturers preach the Gospell by authoritie, and as men set in office by the Lord of the harvest. And this may suffice to shew the va­nitie of such exceptions as are taken against our Church, Mi­nistery, and worship, to prove it to be no true Church, wor­ship, and Ministery; and how untruly and unjustly the Non­conformists are charged to lay the grounds of that [...] and affected Separation, which some have run into. To examine what argument is returned to D r Ames, M r Daw: M r Br: is needlesse; for nothing of weight is said against them, but the same things vainly repeated, with insolent scoffes and reproa­ches, as if by evill speaking you hoped to get the victory. It is to be observed generally you say, Can. Neces. of Se­parat. pag. 211. that those which stand for bad causes doe after this sort still reproach the Adversa­ries. Thus doe the Papists the Protestants, so the Protestants [Page 92]the Puritanes, and so they us, as here and in other writings u­sually. Now I would entreat you to review your two books, and speake in good earnest, whether in scoffing, reproa­ching, falsifications, you doe not ordinarily exceed all men that ever you met withall; Consider se­riously, and then let conscience be Judge, whether it be the note of a good or evill cause, &c.

FINIS.

A Table of some principall Points handled in this Treatise.

In the first Part.
  • Concerning a false Ministerie, and communicating therein, p. 3, 4.
  • Nonconformists lay not the grounds of Separation, by complaining of the abuses in our Church, p. 20, 21.
  • From whence the outward calling of a Minister is derived. p. 24, 25.
  • Herein a distinction is considerable, be­twixt an errour in admission into an office, and a flat nullitie of the of­fice it selfe, p. 29.
  • Who are not, and who are Antichristi­an teachers, p. 41.
  • The true nature of worship, and what it is to worship God in a right man­ner, p. 43.
  • Of an Idoll Church and Ministerie, p. 45.
  • Places of publike worship allowed and prohibited unto Isr [...]ell [...], p. 59.
  • Of worshipping God in a true Church, p. 61.
  • Our Churches are not to be reputed spi­rituall Babylon, p. 69.
  • Concerning Churches true and false, p. 71,
  • Corrupt mixtures in true Churches, p. 81.
  • The nature of superstition, p. 89.
  • Of Ordination received from Bishops, p. 93.
  • Concerning presence at Gods true wor­ship, where something is faultie in the Ministers calling, and the [...]an­n [...]r of administration, p. 105.
  • Some things may staine, which yet o­verthrow not the Ministerie, p. 119.
  • From whence the Ministers of the Go­spell derive their office, p. 126.
  • The Ministers ignorance and scanda­lous life doth not nullifie his Mini­sterie, p. 128.
  • Some touch given of Master Cannes grosse abuse of philosophicall Ca­nons, and of some Authors by him cited, p. 132, 133, 134, &c.
  • When Ministers may be said to runne, though not sent, p. 139.
  • Forreigne reformed Churches acknow­ledg us the true Churches of Christ p. 141.
  • The Ministers calling is not to bee [Page]judged by the titles of Parson, Vi­car, &c. p. 143.
In the second Part.
  • THe lawfulnesse of set formes of prayer, p. 3.
  • Nonconformists never utterly condem­ned any use of our Common Prayer Booke, p. 7, & 15, 16.
  • Nor allowed separation because of some abuses, p. 20, 22.
  • The discussing and discovering of that argument used against the Common prayer booke, viz. that it was taken out of the Masse Book. 9, 10, 11, 12.
  • The pressing of subscription in the tenth yeare of Queene Elizabeth, caused separation, and other trou­bles in our Church, p. 13.
  • The antiquitie of set Liturgies, p. 17.
  • Concerning idols, and separation from them, p. 23, 24, 25.
  • Of discipline how far necessarie in a Church, and how wanting amongst us, p. 33, 35, 37. &c.
  • Concerning the matter, and manner of gathering Churches, 50, unto 64 &c.
  • The office of Lecturers justified. p. 84.
FINIS.

Errata in Part 1.

Page 2, line 1, put out, shall. p. 7, Marg. l. last, adde lib. 1. p. 8. marg. at end, ad [...]e et Repl. 1. p. 33. p. 9. marg. adde hoc autem. p. 11. marg. adde Ier. 23.11.34. Esa. 28.7.9. Ier. 23.16.17. p. 44. l. 4. add in. p. 54. l. 14. add the most of. p. 53 l. 11. for neither read either. p. 57. l. 12. for rom, r. say. l. 17. our ministerie is, insert, true, though. p. 62. l. 25. put out, not. p. 64. l. 7. adde sani. p. 80. l. 32. adde in marg. 3. p. 90. l. 12. read shaft. p. 100. l. last. for answered, r. censured, p. 105. l. 4. unto generall adde rules, p. 108. l. 1. for it is, r. is it. p. 139. l. 37. put out, nor, p. 140. l. 30. adde, it.

In part 2.

P. 7. l. 18. put out, have. p. 11. l. 34. for made, r. makes. p. 13. l. 24. for former matter, r. forme or matter. p. 16. l. 4. adde into. p. 26. l. 31. for when, r. then. p. 38. l. 7. for constitution r. institution. p. 50. l. 25. for dare r. doe. p. 52. l. 6. for promised. r. pur­chased. p. 55. l. 6. for more r. most. p. 72. l. 23. for more, r. were. p. 73. l. 11. for disse­vered r, discovered. p. 74, last line r. Anabaptistae: p: 84: l: 12: adde in.

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