ANSVVER.

TO euery reasonable Spirit, the fountaine of all goodnesse, hath giuen a twofold power, Reason and Affection. The one, whereby wee discerne, the other, where­with wee loue: the one lea­ding man vnto Truth, the o­ther vnto Vertue. From the one, are deriued right Counsels; from the other, vp­right affections. Mans [...]elicity in his creation being this, that both had abilitie constantly to worke the ow­ners happinesse, if the owner had beene willing to haue kept his affections, humbly obedient to the com­maundements of his owne reason. But suffering him­selfe to fall from this gouernment, hee hath found his affection a false Counsellour; dissentions and opposi­tions cunningly suggested, being the continuall con­flict euen betwixt those two nearest, whose first loue was Vnion, and the bond Peace: since which time, man, whilst he erreth (pursuing with eagrenesse, what af­fections desire, rather then Reason doth approue) hee laboureth euen by contradicting himselfe, because he doth not loue what he ought in reason: to finde out reason for himselfe, for that which hee doth loue. And seeing, where the Intentions are right, our weaknesse doth not euer performe what it ought: by reason, In­firmity doth accompany al the faculties of mans soule, wee neither vnderstand rightly what is truth, nor (ha­uing beene deceiued through the strength of some [Page 3] weake affections) are easily perswaded to confesse our errour▪ for Trueth and Vertue, by creation, being mans scope, that which hee wanteth abilitie to attaine, yet therein hee is not easily perswaded to acknowledge that hee doth faile. For, that which was at first his du­ty, cannot but bee his desire still; shame driuing him to make excuses, which may cause him in the opinions of some men (though not to be) yet to seeme righteous. From hence haue proceeded defences, and Apolo­gies, both tending to this end, to shewe that wee de­sire approbation in all wee doe; or that our error (wher­in wee faile) might bee thought lesse. This account, as wee striue to render vnto all that either see faults, or surmise folly in the actions committed by vs, so espe­cially to those, to whome wee owe most duety, both because such (discerning our follies) must prize vs at a lower rate; and their examples are vsually the Rules of all others iudgements. The ground of this second corruption worse then the first, is only an Inordinate se [...]e Loue; a sin, as euer neere in affinity to mans nature, so especially foretold to be (in a manner) peculiar to these last times: 2. Tim. 3.1.2 3. [...].5. VVherein men shall be louers of their owne selues, couetous, boasters, proud, cursed speakers, disobed [...]t to Parents, vnthankful, vnholy, many other falts do acc [...] ̄pany these, but the Apostles conclusion is, that they haue a showe of godlines, but haue denyed the power therof; of whom he giueth this caueat, turn away from such. But S. Austin, a man far beyond al that euer were before him, or s [...]al (in al l [...]kelihood) follow after him, both for humane & diuine learning (those being excepted that were inspi­red) gained more honor vnto himselfe, & gaue a better example vnto the Church, in that small worke of his [Page 4] Recantations, then in all the rest of those admirable monuments that hee left behinde him. Nihil est facilius quam non solum se dicere, sc [...] eti­am opinari verū inuen [...]sse de vtil. credendi. Cap. 1. Animaduertibā plus in resellēdis aliis disert [...]s & copios [...]s esse quā in suis probandis sirmos et certos manere. Hee knewe well there was nothing more easie then not onely to say, but to thinke that they haue founde the truth. The strongest externall motion which caused him to for­sake the Manichies, was that he perceiued them to be more cunning and eloquent to confute others, then sound or certaine to defend their owne. If this moderation could in humilitie haue possessed some (otherwise profitable Instruments in this Church) then should neither their second excuses haue beene worse then their first faults, nor our labour in answering haue beene required at this time. To subscribe vnto the orders of the Church of England, and not long after to refuse (as a thing vn­lawfull) to subscribe vnto the same orders, must im­ply (vnlesse it bee well excused) vnhonesty, Incon­stancie, or both; seeing it is not like the cuppe in the sack of BENIAMIN, which IVDAH confesseth a fault; their difference being this; that, in the one, the fact was not done by him that was thought guiltie, and con­fessed by him that was not: and in the other, certainly done by him that cannot but confesse the fact, and yet excused to bee no fault; so that the summe of this whole defence, is; Whether a man subscribing to the or­ders and constitutions of the Church of England foure times, may afterward haue reasons to deny a subscription or obedience vnto them. In all reason, it must require some sufficient disiunction, that contradictories should both bee, and both bee warranted to bee lawfull. Let vs then heare him speake for himselfe.

ANSVVER.

IF it may appeare, the Intention of the Church euer since the beginning of our late Maiesties Raigne, of most blessed and happie memory, euen vntill this pre­sent, to haue beene both for the Doctrine and cere­monies all one, and in both as neere as was possible proportioned to the state of both, in the daies of King Edward the sixt: it must needes bee in all reason some vncharitable collection, to pretend a difference, where there is none; or some sodaine alteration eyther in iudgement or affection, to doe and to denie the same things, where there is no difference: nay, it must needs be an vnexcusable indiscretion to lay the fault of our owne lightnes vpon the variation or declina­tion of our doctrine, and ceremonies, from that they were; as if we ment eyther to conceale vnthankfully the greatest benefit from God bestowed vpon this land (namely the zealous continuance vnder a new Prince of the olde auncient, and true Religion a­mongst vs) or to lay an Imputation of some declining vpon his gouernement, whose princely care zealously [Page 6] indeuoured, that there might be none. Nay, who (wee may truly say, neyther can wee conceale it with­out great ingratitude) hath laboured more to recti­fye the Church from the supposed blemishes, where­with she was thought stayned, and to giue a more full satisfaction by conference to the most zealous, and the best learned of the aduerse part, then anie Prince in any Kingdome or age euer did before him; and therefore recall that errour which is the founda­tion of your defence following, and say not, that the intention of the Church is eyther varied by some de­grees towardes the Antartique, Or newly discouered to bee other then you conceiued it, vnlesse you con­fesse your conceite to haue beene farre otherwise then was fitte for one of your calling or iudgement: feare not ingeniously to confesse, that the intention of the Church in vrging these Ceremonies is, and hath beene euer the same: And that your selfe haue appro­ued that which now you are afraid vpon some reasons, which to you in particular might seeme good: It must be a great fault rather to make the whole Church vn­constant, then one man.

ANSVVER.

THat Princely Maiestie which gouerneth these kingdomes, hath most comfortably to vs that now liue, and most incredibly to those that shal liue hereafter, accepted, perused, and (if there were cause) allowed the seuerall petitions of those that a­ny way desired releefe from him: and I doubt not, but hee hath perused this defence, which his Gra­cious clemencie would haue in his accustomed manner both excused and pardoned for the length, rudenesse, or the not being cast into a fayrer mould (as you tearme it) had not both the fountaine (from whence it came) beene thought to be worse troubled then the hand that wrote it, and the vnquiet exam­ple, daungerous now in the setling of the Chur­ches euerlasting peace. It must needes bee a fault (as Saint Austin saith) To regard whom you serue, Maior enim cau­sa criminis est videre cui serui­as & contemnere cui deheds serui­tutem. Aust. de Alt. reat. Eccl. & Sinag. and to contemne him to whom your seruice is due. Peraduen­ture in the one you respect some lesser circum­stances, which time may informe you are not of that nature as you thinke: but in the other you apparantly decline euen from that obedience which is due, the first being no vertue, and the latter an intollerable sinne. But I would willingly excuse all with as much charity as the cause will suffer, seeing as Saint Austin speaketh: Si mihi per alios ve stro [...] [...]oncederetur seismaticos voili­be [...]li [...]s quam hi­vetic [...]s dicerem. cout. Cres. lib. 2. cap. 7. If your fellowes [Page 8] would giue me leaue, I would more willingly call you Scismatikes then Heretikes. So doubtlesse, if the indi­rect proceedings of a number in this cause, had not manifestly discouered some other sinister endes, then are pretended by you, it might be thought a weake Conscience, and strong Zeale in some one, which now doubtlesse will be iudged an intollerable, ambitious, disobedient, Haecomnia sicut leguntur, praedi­cta, ita cern [...] ̄tur, impleta, Aust. Epist. 3. voles. and vnsufferable fellow of a great num­ber: and surely all these things as Saint Austin spea­keth in another case, as they are read, foretold, so now, they are seene, fulfilled.

ANSVVER.

IN the proportionable proceedings that reason ma­keth, it were fit first to studie what we do defend, and after, if need be, better to studie to make our defences better; that you haue not followed this course, neede not to be cleared by many witnesses, seeing it appea­reth that you could not haue wanted better defences, [Page 9] if you had beene willing; Seneat. Sapientia est semper idem velle. N [...]n potest idem placere nisi rectū. and being not willing, you haue taken exceptions vnto that which you should defend. But the morall wiseman telleth vs, that true wisedome is euer to will the same: for doubtlesse nothing can euer please but that which is right. But experi­ence proueth that when a feruency (as they call it) of zeale hath throwne man headlong into dangerous op­positions against the Church, they are vsually more obstinate in that errour (oftentimes vpon no other ground, but onely to seeme constant) whereas imbra­sing a truth, and subscribing vnto it eyther vpon discon­tentment, vanitie, inconstancie, or the ordinarie vse and custome of mans life, Variatur quoti­di [...] iudicium, & in contrarium vertitur, ac ple­risque agitur vi­ta per vsum. de­neca. Bonus Circuitus est, si Iustit [...] quaerit, prudentia in­uenit, fortitudo veridicat, tempe­rantia possidit, vt sit iusticia in as­fectu, prudētia in intellectu: forti­tudo in effectu, Temperantia in vsu. Ber. de conside. No man can do euill with a good consci­ence. Hooker. sodainly they slide and fall from the opinions which they held before: mortall iudge­ments euen in the best varying daily, and mans life for the most part being ruled by custome. But Saint Ber­nard giueth a good direction, In this case the path is straight, if Iustice seeke it, wisedome finde it, courage main­tain it, and Temperance possesse it: that so there may be vp­rightnesse in the affection, wisedome in the vnderstanding, fortitude in effect, Temperance in vse. For although as the same father saith, a good intention cannot excuse an euill fact, yet an euill intention is sufficient to con­demne a fact otherwise good. Neither will it be much auaileable to search out with what intention things are done, which manifestly appeare to be euill, in that they are done: And doubtlesse voluntarily to seeke quarrels against that which before vnder our handes we haue approued, is not so much an instabilitie of minde (the common infirmitie of mankinde) as a ma­litious follie bringing little aduantage vnto those that doe it, but I will not suspect so vncharitably of [Page 10] you, whose wisedome and conscience I hope to bee much better, then, that without great reason you would incurre the disgrace of so happie a time, or procure the displeasure of so good a Prince; which being considered, doubtlesse the reasons are great, that haue made you aduenture for to hazard both. And I am fully perswaded that few men (not altoge­ther carelesse of the Churches peace) would so ea­sily debarre themselues from the manifolde happi­nesse of these times, or so vsually runne into the Iust deserued displeasure of the best King, and most religious that euer this Ilande had, if verie great, verie waightie, verie apparant, and vnanswe­rable reasons did not mooue them to it.

ANSVVER.

IT seemeth you haue well considered the mani­folde daungers which are like to follow, but not so carefully indeuoured that you may auoide them, the miseries of a wife and tenne children (which doubtlesse in you is intollerable crueltie not to pit­tie) are amongest the greatest calamities, and the heauiest of this life, and not to prouide for them when wee can, 1. Tim. 5.8. is to denie the faith, and to be worse then Infidels. What is it then to pull this mise­rie vpon them? Heere [...]nto adde that which is ( as you call it) the life of your life, the vse of your poore ministerie to the hazard of your [...]cke: must it not bee some grieuous transgression, a sinne like the sinne of wi [...]chcraft that shall make you to aduen­ture all this? let me tell you (which peraduenture in particular your owne experience hath not found) a number haue little esteemed eyther of the losse of liuing, of the miserie of wise and children, of their separation from their [...]lockes: First, because an opinion of persecution for their zeale to refor­mation of the superstitions of the Church, hath found such liberall contributions from the handes of ma­ny, that they haue made often aduantage of this losse, and returned richer from imprisonments, then when they were at libertie, nay, some haue af­fected with all diligence their owne persecution (as they call it) in this kinde, as the shortest and ea­siest way to purchase, and to become rich; as for their flockes if their zeale had beene such as [Page 12] they pretend to the saluation of their soules, to how many thinges (not vnreconcylably euill) would they haue yeilded, rather then haue brought them to so great a daunger? yet giue me leaue without of­fence to tell you that the happinesse of your flockes depend not euer vpon such teachers, neyther will the losse altogether bee so great as they peraduenture imagin, but howsoeuer, vndoubtedly the Church hath little reason to value their labours at any great price, who haue not yet learned to bee obedient to her voyce. But as the sore of disobedience groweth to an vlcer out of the swelling of pride, as HVGO no­teth, so there are three means (sayth he) onely, left for the cure of it, playster, oyntment, launcing: the first hee calleth example, the second exhortation, the third, correction. When the two first fayle, then the last must bee vsed. It may bee thought (per­happes) seueritie to practise so sharpe censures vpon the ministers of the Church, who doe all that they doe vpon a good grounde, but vvhat if no other meanes will serue to cure the great swelling of this Church? haue not playsters, oyntmentes, milder medicines beene practised? And yet are not the swellinges as great still? The knife onely remaynes to launce them. I exhort not to crueltie, but defend those who are more grieued to punish with depriua­tion, and such like, then those that suffer it: and I am heartily sorie that some (otherwise) men vertuous, and profitable to the Church, shoulde fall into these opinions with so strong an opposition, as if God and the King did commaund two contrarie things, I confesse my selfe the vnablest of many thousandes [Page 13] in this Church to vndertake the defence of the pro­ceedings of so vertuous and wise a prince, of so graue and so learned a Clergie (none of all which I protest, would I flatter in a knowne error, to gaine the greatest reputation vpon Earth:) yet when I see that in these conflictes they make God and the King contrarie; as if the feare of Gods displeasure did hazard them vpon his Maiesties: I cannot but tell them, that their [...]eale doth want knowledge; and that obedience is better then the sa­crifice of fooles.

ANSVVER.

IF you had opinion that you were misled, though it were in opinion and not heresie; yet wisdome and Religion ought both to moue you to hasten to that truth, from whence, whilst you differ, although your doctrine be all one with the Church of England, yet neither can you liue with that ioy in your owne soule, whilst you are at variance (though for Ceremonies) with those that doe rule ouer you; neither can the Church inioy so good vse of your labours, whilst you are not carefull to preserue the vnitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Ephe. 4.3. False opinions concerning the gouern­ment [Page 14] of the Church, doubtlesse are not equall, yea, dangerous to those Heresies that are against the Faith; yet seeing the least errour cannot bee main­tained, but by broaching newe, wisdome will counsell vs to hasten in humility to rest and re­pose our selues in the iudgement of the Church. But where the conscience either thinketh it vn­lawfull (out of her owne knowledge so supposed) or feareth it not to bee lawfull, out of the time­rous care arising from her owne weaknesse) there wee can easily bee content to expect them with much patience, if their humility will giue them leaue to learne; and rather to doe what they ought not, vntill they bee resolued, then to doe what they should, being not resolued. Because (as you say) He that once will goe against the vnknowne error of his Conscience, will at last haue no Conscience to goe against knowne error. But, seing al men vnderstand not aright what that is which they alledge for themselues, In the modest examination. Cap. 7 pag. 84. when they say, the [...]r Con­science: wee are willing to set downe what we haue else­where noted, that the simplest may not bee deceiued with pretence of Conscience.

There is naturally ingraffed in the heart of man that light of Nature, which can neuer bee put out, that telleth him, that no euill is to bee done. Now, Reason, according to the knowledge that it hath (which in some is more, and in some lesse) deliuereth his Iudgement of particulers, Censcientiae est applicatio notitiae nostrae ad actum particularem A­quinus 22. dist. [...]4. Art. 4. that they are good or euill; from whence the conclusion followeth, they are to bee done being good, and not to bee done beeing euill, and this is our Conscience, which is no­thing els, but an application of our knowledge to a particuler [Page 15] Act. This application is made in a threefold maner, as,

• 1 First, to consider whether such a thing bee done or not done, and surely in this, our Con­sciences can best tell the actions and intention of those thinges,
  Eccl. 7.23 24.
  which are done by vs. Giue not thy heart (saith SALOMON) to all the wordes that men speake, least thou doe heare thy seruant cursing thee, for oftentimes thy heart knoweth that thou likewise hast cursed others.
• 2 The second Application is, when wee Iudge of the fact which is done, whether it bee well or euill, the measure of our knowledge in this, making vs mistake, as euill for good: so that, sometimes to be euill, which indeede is good.
• 3 The third is, that this or that is to bee done, or to bee left vndoone.
  Conscientia.

  • 1. Testis.
  • 2. A [...]ulator.
  • 3. Vinctulum.

In this first, it is a witnesse which will not lye: In the second, it may accuse, but not absolutely ex­cuse: In the last, it may binde (though it want strength) in this respect onely, that wee are weake. For those newe cordes (and such are newe opini­ons) which were not able to holde SAMPSON, Iud. 16.9. may easily holde him fast, that is by many degrees weaker then SAMPSON was. The first of these re­specteth the time past; the second, the time pre­sent; the third, for the well or euill doing, the ha­uing or suffering, the ioy or torment that is to come. As, if hee that had made time the preciousest cir­cumstance of all our actions, had set our Consci­ence, as the seuere and diligent watchman of all our times.

Now, hauing set down the vse of conscience, the next [Page 16] consideration is of the errors of it. These are two, a false Assumption, and a false application. In the first, wee take those things to bee good and true, which in­deede, directly are euill and false, (an error peraduen­ture, which may appeare hereafter to haue misled you in this point:) so those that put the Apostles to death, did thinke in that action, that they pleased God: for the time was come that our Sauiour foretold; Whosoe­uer killeth you, Iob. 16.2. will thinke that hee doth God seruice. In the second, a false application arising out of a true ground: because hee heareth that God is to bee loued aboue all things, therefore he thinketh it vnlawfull to loue any thing but God: these erre not alike, but the error of Conscience doth infect both. Neither ought a Con­science that thus erreth, to bynd, seeing the force and strength of Conscience is not built vpon himselfe, but vpon some Precept, (seeming so to it selfe) bring no good reason, but either because it is commaunded, or else for­bidden. Against which, contrarily either to doe or to maintaine, is to foyle (as you say) the Conscience, and to make it like a distempered lock, that no key will o­pen. But, let vs heare your selfe lay downe the gree­uance, whereat your Conscience doth either truely re­pine, or in weakenesse stumble.

ANSVVER.

THat which troubleth your Conscience, seemeth to be the Ceremonies of this Church; Secundae intenti­ones. in show, light, but such as haue their originall from Antichrist; sha­dowes, but Gyants; in nature indifferent, but in vse not so. We account Ceremonies in religion, if they be harm­lesse, and tend to edification (such as are the Ceremo­nies of our Church) the second Intentions of the Law, Intermediate meanes, not to be dispised of a better and more religious seruice: for as to thinke that Ceremo­nies (without true & inward holinesse) could cleanse from sinnes, were to erre; and to bee lewish and su­perstitious, so to account them of no vse, were to bee meerely prophane. For both the Iudiciall and the Ce­remoniall Lawe, being in a sort Morall (as the schole­men speake) the one in an order to our neighbours, the other, in an order to God; these haue no other allow­ance in Gods worship, but as they are vertuous furthe­rances of his honour. In the Ceremonies of the olde Lawe, there were three things to be obserued. First, that they were all ordained for the expressing of the in­ward [Page 18] and morall worshippe, to serue to true holinesse, Faith, Hope ▪ and Charity, without which, all the rest were reiected (euen as a burden) by him that commā ­ded them; saying, I will haue mercy, but not sacrifice. Se­condly, if Ceremonies bee contrary to true holinesse, 1. Sam. 15.22. they were to bee omitted (for their end was to further deuotion and not to hinder it). In this respect they were dispensable, when either by the place or time, two violent circumstances of all our actions or for som Impediment they could not wel be vsed, this made, that euen Circumcision was omitted for those who were born in the desart; Ios. 5. as being vnfit to moue Immediatly after that wound, and beeing vncertaine to rest, seeing they must follow the fire & the cloud when they mo­ued. Thus in persecution wee are content rather to ex­ercise Religion without Ceremonies, then to want it; which in peace to neglect or contemne, must needes bee a great offence. Those times beeing fittest to serue GOD with greater reue­rence and more holy solemnities which are com­passed about with greater rest, and more happie blessings. Lastly, when Ceremonies are requi­site to testifie our faith (as doubtlesse they are then when they are either vpon malice or through misvn­derstanding oppugned) wee may not in conscience re­mit any part of them: for the refusing of such can be no small sinne, where the vsing is blessed with the crowne of Martyrdome. 1. Machab. 6.7, Now, if you can showe that those which for long time haue beene retained in our Church (for wee haue not inuented new, but reserued the old, vsed in the Church before ROME was Idola­trous) are heauie burdens, deriued from Antichrist, Hate­full [Page 19] Gyants, not Indifferent, but vnlawfull in vse, Scandals, and such like (which wee are sure neither you, nor the leardnedst in that cause, are able to proue) then wee shall thinke you haue much reason to refuse them, in regard of Conscience. All the actions of man are of three sorts; good, euill, and indifferent. If our Consci­ence say, that is to bee done which is naturally good, it is no errour: Eadem ratione prohibentur ma­la, qua precipiun­tur bona. If it deny that to bee done which is e­uill, it is no errour: For by the same reason euill is for­bidden, which commaundeth good; but on the contrary, if it say that to bee done which is naturally euill, or not to be done, which is good, it is doubtlesse a cōscience which doth err in both, likewise in indifferēt things (such as you say these are, if their nature bee waighed, but they are necessarie if the lawfull cōman­dement be added) to make, I say, such absolutely neces­sarie, where authority hath not determined, is doubtles a Conscience that doth much erre. For euery will that disagreeth from reason, Rom. 14. either true or false, directly sinneth: for, whatsoeuer is not of Faith is sinne; and yet euery thing which is done by the will giuing assent to reason is not voide of Sin; because that Ignorance, which is a fault, cannot possiblye make the action to be without fault.

Now, in thinges which naturally are indifferent (as these are) the Precept of the superiour doth binde more then the Conscience of the inferiour can; Aquinus in disp. de ver. quest. 17. Art. 5. for the subiect hath the Commaundement of his lawfull superiour, whether King or Bishoppe for his warrant; and in things of this nature, his duetie is not to examine, but onely to performe what hee seeth commaunded. Wherein wee doubt not, but the Consideration is and will be greate of those, [Page 20] who are in authoritie, what they doe commaund. The conscience that doth erre (though it bynd vntill it be reformed) ought notwithstanding to be reformed, because either Ignorance, necligence, pryde, Inordinat affec­tion, fayntnes, perplexitie, or self loue are the corrupt and originall causes of the errors of it; so that, if none of these haue ouerruled you (as I dare not condemne ano­ther mans seruant): but that knowledge with due consideration, hath directed you in that ye did, there is great reason to hearken to your excuse, and to re­gard you and others with much attention, whilst with reuerence and humility, you alledge your Consci­ence. In the meane time, for remedy against these er­rours, let them not disdaine the Counsell which wise­men haue found to be most safe. If it bee of ignorance, to say with IEHOSOPHAT; Wee knowe not what to doe, but our eyes are toward thee. 2. Chro. 20▪12. If of negligence, to come without partiality or preiudice, as NICHODEMVS to CHRIST, Ioh. 3. to those that for knowledge are fit to teach vs. If of Pride, to submit our selues one to another, and especially to those that haue more learning, and doe rule ouer vs. [...]. Chr. 10.18. For hee that praiseth himselfe, is not allowed, but hee whome the Lord praiseth. A sin­gularity in this kinde hath beene the originall of most heresies in all ages, and not the least occasion of the troubles of these times: if from Inordinate affection, making that lawfull which wee haue a minde to doe, wee must hearken to Iudgement, and refuse our affec­tions in this [...]ase: Perit omne Iu­dicium, cum res transit in affec­tum. Senec. for iudgement turned into affecti­on, doth all perish: If from faintnesse then onely to bee scrupulous and fearefull, when wee haue cause, least wee thinke it lawfull, because wee [Page 21] straine a g [...]at to swallow a Camell. If of perplexitie, when a man is closed as it were betwixt two sinnes, where he is not able (though willing) to auoid both, that which will not make eyther to be lawfull will make one of them directly a lesse sinne; If of humili­tie (an errour sure of least danger), wee wish them onely to take heed of too much feare, for those exter­nal lets (as that men cast vs out of their conscience for vsing these things, supposing we are as ready whē time serueth to say Masse) we esteeme not the vanity of such mens coniectures, whose proper guiltines is the stron­gest motiue to thinke and to speake euill. Neyther do wee desire a place in their conscience, who cannot make a difference betwixt vsing of these, and saying of Masse, which things though eyther they cannot or list not to distinguish, yet we do, last of all, that boyes and girles laugh at those for the vsing of these things whom before they looked on with feare: It ought no more to be any motiue to a religious and graue man, then when Michol saw Dauid daunsing before the Arke, 2. Sam. 6.16. vers. 20. and dispi­sed him in her heart, saying in derision, O how glorious was the King of Israell this day, Or vaine man. which was vncouered to day in the eyes of the maydens of his seruants, as a foole vncoue­reth himselfe. But rather confidently let vs answer to Atheists, prophane and irreligious persons, children and ignorant people as he did. It was before the Lord which chose me rather then thy father and all his house, and commaunded me to be ruler ouer the people of the Lord, euen ouer Israell, and therefore will I play before the Lord: and will yet be more vile then thus, and will bee low in my owne sight, and of the verie same mayd seruants which thou hast spoken off shall I bee had in honour: So I [Page 22] doubt not but euen those who by reason of the discon­tinued vse of these things, eyther sport themselues at vs, or thinke vs ready to intertaine popery in the high­est measure, shall learne by these ornaments to be more religious, and in short time (euen of them) the ministers shall be had in farre greater honour.

ANSWER.

IF the long and eager contentions of this Church had all proceeded from a pardonable difference in lighter things, the church of England might easelye haue hoped for a peace, but had little cause to haue cōmended their Zeale, who were willing so vehemētly [Page 23] to dissent vpon small occasions, there is litle hope that wee should possesse any great portion of inheritance in Gods church who haue not learned in patience to possesse our owne soules. In Math. 5. Saint Chrisostome maketh cer­tain steps of this vertue (a vertue that none want which possesse charitye) for charitye is patient, it suffereth long, it is not puffed vp, it suffereth all things, It bele­ueth all things, 1. Cor. 13.4. it hopeth all things, it indureth all things, the first steppe is not to offer wrong, the se­cond, not to reuenge it vpon our equals; the third, not to returne the like, but to bee quiet: the fourth, to ascribe the desert of what we suffer to our selues: the fift, to yeeld our selues to him that doth euill: the sixt, not to hate him: the seauenth to loue him: the eight, to doe good to him: the last, to pray for him. Thus whatsoeuer wee suffer, shall bee a medicine, not a pu­nishment. But haue you delt thus? nay haue you not complained of persecution, whilst men in authoritie haue, with griefe of heart, but executed those lawes which were made for the Churches peace? haue you not sought boastingly to countenance your opinions, by as learned men (in your iudgement) as this age hath knowne? Medicina no [...] poena. Aust. Let it not be a blemish to the Honorable me­mory of M. Caluin, M. Beza, Pet. Martyr or any other of that time & place, that they fauored the discipline that you hold, who doubtles, if they had liued in this King­dom, & in these times, would haue thought otherwise. For the ind [...]lgence of Abraham to his inferiour, which you desire, it is no example that superiours must euer yeeld: yet surely, if the gouernors of our Church, saue in these, the moderatiō of Lot, they wold say with al meeknes & loue, which they haue said often, but with smal [Page 24] Let there be no strife betweene you and vs, neither between your heardmen and our heardmen, Gen. 13.8. for we are brethren.

And for the difference which you desire should be made betwixt you and some of Scotland, I doubt not but his excellent Maiestie, who in this (as an Angell of God) is able to discerne the beginnings, the procee­dings, and the end of these fancies, which though they be not alike violent in all, yet they euer serue to this end that vniformitie and order may cease, and priuate singularities (dangerous in Gods seruice) may take place, and all to this end fondly to please them, whose intentions are vnhallowed, and their desires endlesse; for if an ouerflowing mercy (which were nothing else but a mercilesse crueltie) would frame it selfe to yeild vnto all things that you all desire, would you not after this yet desire more? Doubtlesse the incon­stancy of these men (so often varying both in Doctrine and Discipline, allowing what immediatly they mis­like, subscribing to what they disprooue) hath laide from the mouth of our aduersaries those blemishes vpon this Church, as if vncertaintie and error were the onely supporters of our truth, whereas if seueri­tie of lawes had wrought a generall vniformitie in this Church, might wee not with ioynt handes haue encountered our aduersaries with a compleat armie: who in the meane time looking with pleasure vpon the violence of some amongest vs, are readie to afford coales and breath vnto that fire, wherein without care­full prouidence our Church of necessitie must needs perish.

ANSVVER.

IT seemeth things suggested to Princes from others, though the same be not the same, as when they come from themselues, the vsual euill custome of these times is for all men to sit in counsaile vpon the actions of Princes: thus doe we direct their handes, their eares, their tongues, and what we cannot out of our weaknesse comprehend, that we interpret boldly and falsely according to our owne fancies: if first all means be vsed to procure a peace by a generall conformitie amongst those, whom neither lawes nor religion haue made different, and after that to proceed against those which more earnestly and dangerously dissent from vs, can it beare any interpretation of such euill? And if euill, how can it be compared to the counsell of Hushay which doubtlesse was from God to ouerthrow the dangerous and irreligious counsell that Achitophel gaue? 2 Sam 17, there cannot be in my opinion a greater com­mendation to this aduise, then that it should be like the counsaile of Hushay, whome God stirred vp to re­leiue Dauid, let others affect vnto themselues the [Page 26] Commendation and end that Achitophell had, but God grant vnto the King now & euer, both for the Church and Commonweale, 2, Sam. 17.14. such as Hushay was. For dowbtlesse the Counsell of Hushay the Archite, is better then the Coun­sell of Achitophell.

ANSVVER.

I doe easily thinke that it may be farre otherwise then you sweare, if you mean by Subiectes, either the most, or the wisest, or the most Religious in this Land. Who vn­doubtedly haue receiued farre greater griefe at the death of our late Soueraigne, when mercy looking v­pon the misery of this Land preuented our gratious King with the blessings of goodnesse, and set a crown of pure golde vpon his head, Psa. 21.3. so that the Nations that are round about vs, may say, as Hyram when hee heard the words of Salomon; Blessed be the Lord this day, which hath giuen vnto DAVID a wise Son ouer this mighty people; 1. King. 5.7. vnto Queene ELIZABETH an heire of her owne house and linage full of religion, wisdome and vnderstanding. As [Page 27] also their iust sorrow for that mourning and desolation through all our Kingdome, when the most part was stroken with a plague, like the tenth plague of Aegypt, when there were few houses, wherein there were not some dead. When the mutuall comfort of friends was denyed, the hearing of Gods word was as much as the hazard of mans life, these surelye were greater griefs in your memorye then that for which you swear: but besides, I see not how it can come within the com­passe of your knowledge, that neuer any thing more gree­ued the Subiectes, then the present course against the Mi­nisters. The releefe whereof, would bee so farre from gratifying any that were wise, vertuous, or experien­ced in the troubles of these times (vnlesse some sewe ingaged in the same tempest) as that it would threaten danger to the Prince, prophanesse to the Land, Bar­barisme to learning, confusion to all stares, and (with­out an infinite mercie) vtter ruine and desolation both to the Church and the commonwealth. We take not vpon vs to aduise his excellent Maiestie, but power out our prayers, that al blessings, by his loue to the Church may in his daies bee powred vpon his childrens chil­dren, and that peace may be vpon Israell.

ANSVVER.

TO this with the plentifull addition of all graces, the whole Church of great Brittain lying prostrate at his Maiesties feet doth say, Amen. Amen.

ANSVVER.

IF this resolution continue, you need not doubt but to finde mercy, but wisedom would consult whether it be lawfull first to disobey, and then to forsake your calling, and liue a priuate life: it were lamentable that the state of our Church were such, as that men to a­uoid the seuerity of her superstitious laws had no other safetie for their conscience, but to forsake their functi­ons, we know better of her, and we will hope better things of you, then you should thinke or write thus.

ANSVVER.

THere is little hope in the sequell of this Apology to find that sub­mission and humility, which were requisite in the Ministers of Christ, when one of inferiour place dare aduenture to make a determinate answere of refusal to subscribe, hauing notwithstan­ding before subscribed, and yet maintaineth that he is lawfully warranted to do both; doubtlesse if it had but beene the obedience to a priuate bishoppe in his own Dyoces, ought we not rather to haue yeelded thē either to haue incurred the suspicion of cōtempt, or to haue hazarded by suspension, the vse of our ministery? But when by your confession it was that Subscription which his Lordship and the Canons did both require you giue a singuler testimonie of his Lordshippes E­piscopall vigelancie, and withall, runne into suspition of singuler contempt, vnlesse, your reasons being exa­mined, [Page 32] do prooue good: for except the inferiour Cler­gy be obedient to the Bishoppe, and the Bishoppes to the Metropolitane, Tot essent scisma. ta quot sacerdo­tes. Hiero. contr. Lucif. there would bee (saith S. Hierome) as many Scismes as Priests.

And one of the most modest and most learned that seemeth to fauour the cause of discipline maketh it a principall poynt of the ecclesiasticall gouerment; that the Inferior clergye in things honest be obedient to the Bishop, Vt peculiarem promitterent o­bedientiam, in rebus honestis suo Episcopa et Epis­copi Metrapolita­no. Zach. de Relig. Cap. 25. Sect. 38. Canon. 140. and the Bishoppe to the metropolitan, so that you not onlye refusing obedience in this vnto the Bishopp but viola­ting those canons wherevnto in ther intendiment you gaue consent, & which doubtles being so lawfully au­thorised was the whole church of England by repre­sentation, you had need to afford good reasons of this refusall or else to account this refusal a great sin, which the rather I doubt not but your wisdome will be care­full to avoyde as being not onlye to render an account of your owne obedience but to do it being required by so humble, so learned, so vertuous a King, who in the midst of the greatest affaires of his realme vouchsafeth in his vsuall and extraordinarye loue to his cleargie, to respect you and to require your answere by their mes­sage who if they had spoken in their own names, deser­ued verye much to haue bene reuerenced by yow.

ANSVVER.

I doubt not, but you haue well examined what you haue here set downe, and wise men in cases of this moment, deale not like vnwise builders, but cast their account before hand. Wee heare your opinion, which it pleaseth you to call your vnfained Iudgment, my vnfeyned Iudgment. con­cerning Discipline, Ceremonies; and Subscription, matters oftentimes handled before, as be also the most things set downe by you, wherein we must craue par­don, [Page 33] if we alledge our owne words, euen in that which we haue been occasioned to answere in another Trea­tise; Post malam sege­tem serendum est, soepe quicquid perierat Infoelicis solisterelitate, vnius anni resti­tuit vbertas. Senec. for wisdome telleth vs that it is necessarie to sowe againe after an euill haruest, seeing oftentimes that which perisheth by the barrennes of some badground, is abundantly restored in the fertility of some one year that followeth. In your first, concerning the gouern­ment of the Church (which you call discipline) nei­ther is it vndetermined what was prescribed by the A­postles of Christ, nor what succession of Bishops was continued in all Churches, euen from their time, so that it must needes seeme strange, that the gouern­ment by Elders or by Bishoppes should in your opi­nion, be a thing so indifferent, as that neither beeing prescribed by the Apostles of Christ, neither of them repug­nant to the word of God, may wel & profitably be both vsed. It seemeth strāge to my vnderstanding, that after so ma­ny sharpe conflictes for the discipline of the Churh, after such bitter inuectiues against the authority of Bi­shops; After so confident commendation of the go­uernment by Elders maintained, as onely warrantable and inioyned out of Gods word; fancies wherwith ye haue filled the Church for this fifty yeares, that you should now confesse neither to be cōmaunded, neither to bee repugnant to Gods word. What meant the de­monstration of discipline, and others, to indeauour to proue the gouernment by Elders not to bee the inuen­tion of wise men, and not against the word of God, but to be the expresse commaundement (in euery particu­ler) of GOD himselfe, accounting those to haue no Church (this being as essential as either the Word or Sacraments) where this is wanting: What meant the [Page 34] vehement commendations of this discipline, in a booke called the Humble Motion, Pag. 31.27.74.64. that if this were esta­blished, God would blesse our victuals and satisfie our poore with bread, that he would cloath our Priests with health, and his Saints should shout for ioy, that it is best and surest for our state; that it would cut off contentions and suites of Law; that it would norish learning; that then there would bee vnity in the Church, that it would bee strength and victorie and many other benefits like these. Why haue they stri­uen so earnestly for it, if it were not absolutely com­maunded in Gods word, Quod de scriptu­ris sacris autho­ritatem non ha­bet eadem facili­tate contemnitur qua probatur. Hier. in Mat. 26. which seing you now denye, giue me leaue to tell you, we will henceforth be bolde with Saint Hierom (seing it wanteth this warrant) to reiect it with the same facility that it is alledged. And wee hope (seeing it is not commaunded in the Scripture) that they will for euer now cease to poyson the Church with such opinions, or to couer the policy of their first teachers, with the vnhallowed contentions of all after-times. But though you haue dealt so liberally with vs for the gouernment of Elders, yet we dare not doe so with you in the gouernment of Bishops. For, if Clement saide true (whome Polidore alledgeth to that end) that Peter in euery Prouince appointed one Archbishoppe, whome all other Bishops in the same Prouince should obey, if the name of Archbishoppe and Bishoppe were not so vnusuall, that Volusianus was not afraid to say, Volustanus wrot. Anno. 855. that Dynosius Areopagita was by S. Paule made Archbishoppe of Athens; or Erasmus to call Titus Archbishop of Creete, or Eusebius to giue the authority to Iohn the Euāgelist, Euseb lib. 5. cap. 23. who suruiuing the rest, brought this benefit vnto the Church, that for cōsecra­ting [Page 35] of Bishops, & other vses, he was the Archbishop or Metropolitan to the whole Church; for the Bishops (as Epiphanius reasoneth) begot fathers in the Church, Haeres. 75. but the Presbiters (only) begot sons. Bilson. If this was the per­petual gouernment of the Church (as that thrise lear­ned & most reuerend Bishop hath proued) euen from the Apostles time, we dare not say as you do, that it hath but a tollerable alowance equall to Elders, and that neither being repugnant, the Church may lawfully imbrace either.

2 Concerning the second point, touching Ceremo­nies (you name only the Crosse and the Surp [...]ice) these you hold lawfull; for so (I thinke) you meane, when you say ( they be not vnlawfull) being vsed as our Church doth, but yet notwithstanding in some men & places so inexpedient, as that you thinke no mans Ministery likely to do so much good as some mens sodaine vse of them might doe hurt. Consider (I pray you) the sub­stance of these word [...], the things are lawfull as our Church vseth them. 1. Cor. 12. 1. Cor. 10.23. What then? inexpedient, that is in respect of some circumstances not conuenient to be vsed ▪ a discre­tion attending vpon things indifferent by the Apostles aduice (all things are lawfull, but all things are not ex­pedient) euen then restraining the vse, when it is like that the vsage will doe much hurt. This hurt you set downe to be, that no mans Ministery is likely to do so much good, as some mens sodaine vse of them might do hurt. Is this your determinate iudgement of these things deliuered vnder your hand vnto the king? It is like (nay, doubtles it is more then like) for it is sure (otherwise most lamen­table were the cōdicion of this land) that the Ministery of some men shal be able to saue soules (for that Gos­pel which we preach, Rom. 1. is the power of god vnto saluatiō) [Page 36] now, what hurt can you thinke of, equall to this good, peraduenture the destruction of soules, and doe you thinke in earnest, Ioh. 10.29. that this scandall will be the de­struction of mens soules? 2. Cor. 2.16. Well, what are they? are they elect? then I am sure you will say they cannot fall; for Christ saith, In quantum pos­sumus proximorū scandalum vita­ve debemus. Si de veritate scādalum oritur, satius est vt illi­us scandal um nascitur, quam veritas relinqua­tur. Hiero. in Math. No man shall take them out of his hands, are they otherwise giuen ouer to a reprobate sence? to such euen the Gospel it self is the sauor of death vnto death. I confesse, wee are to auoid scandall in what we may, but better it is, that that should arise, then betray the truth, and (peraduenture) by conformity and obedi­ence, your Ministery would receiue those blessings which now it wanteth.

But howsoeuer, seeing the number can neither bee many, the most part of our Land being better instru­cted vnder the long gouernment of the most vertuous Prince that euer England had, before it had her, nor the danger great, being but the Scandall of such, who are not willing to seeme weake, and therfore I suppose, wee neede not bee afraid to say contrarie to that which you affirme: that many mens Ministerie is likely to doe more good then yours, or any mans sodaine vse of the Ce­remonies can doe hurt.

3 The third thing, whereunto you answered, was Subscription, and in this, to some things without limi­tation, as to the Kings Supremacie, Anno 13. &c. to others with, and in both, as the lawe requireth. It hath beene the vsual euasion of a great number, to pretend an obedience to the lawe, in subscribing, whilest (notwithstanding) they were not willing to subscribe, as the Lawe requi­red. Surely there can be little hope of peace in the outward gouernmēt of that Church, where the leaders [Page 37] of others are not willing or think it not lawfull, to be obedient, neither can there be any one act in the obser­uation of all wise men more avayleable, and in reason more likelye to procure this then Subscription, which tyeth the tongue & hands from any way resisting those lawfull ordinances, that preserue peace, all other crea­tures obserue that law which their maker appointed for them, Psal. 148.6. for he hath giuen them a law which shall not be broken: This being the reproofe of man (saith Saint Ambrose) but most of all of vs of the Cleargie, In Hexamer. who be­ing the children of the Church, nay, fathers in Christ to beget others, are notwithstanding disobedient vnto those lawes which in great wisedome for her owne safety the Church hath made. It is dangerous when we say: Surely we will walke after our owne imaginations, and doe euery man after the stubbernnes of his wicked heart. Ier. 28.1. But wee finde in you a better show of comformity then in many others, who professing to subscribe to his Maiesties Supremacy without exception or qualification, cannot in reason but yeild obedience vn­to the lawes which are all of them authorized from his mouth, & for the censure of the communiō Booke, notwithstanding you thinke something to bee faul­tie in it, yet (wee desire you to remember it) conside­red in the intention of the Church of England, and redu­ced to the propositions which it publikely professeth, Subscription being a kind of oath, I doubt whether priuate men haue pow­er to make their own limitation. it contay­neth nothing contrarie to the word of God. This then be­ing your approbation vnder your hand, doe you not think it lawful to alow by subscription what you think lawfull? The truth of those things whereunto you haue beene required to subscribe, hath forced a con­fession of their lawfulnesse, euen from the mouthes [Page 38] of her greatest aduersaries, and yet for all this, because they would be to others examples of disobedience, they haue refused to subscribe, to thrust others of lesse learning & greater moderation into the like contempt. This being (as one noteth) the principal vnhappines of those men, Authoritatem habent senum, [...]. tia pueroru [...]. S [...]nec. Ep. 4. that they had the authoritie of the aged, and the faults of youth. Who being in this (as they thought) to publish their vertue were supposed not without cause to affect glory.

ANSVVER.

IT is the desire of all men who are willing to conti­nue the reputation without wrong, to be able to giue account of what they doe, and to render a rea­son of what they speake. The narration of your beha­uiour and trouble, as also your opinion concerning conformitie with this Church, as we haue receiued it vnder your owne hand, so wee desire leaue without of­fence to obserue some few things materiall to this end, and although your reducing the summe of the whole storie to those two heads: first, that you haue foure [Page 41] times subscribed to the booke of common praier with limitation and reference of all things therein contay­ned vnto the purpose and doctrine of this Church of England. Secondly, that you neuer promised confor­mitie in practise, howsoeuer you confessed the ceremo­nies not simply vnlawfull; be the principall things contayned in it; yet, because some other things are pertinent to this cause, wee will rather examine then answer what you haue alleadged.

1 You haue yeilded to subscribe with limitatiō, which limitation is the purpose and intention of the Church of England, a caueat (doubtlesse) not needful to be ex­pressed, seeing it is the same Church that requireth subscription, who would not haue any within her own bosom require an allowance to the fancies & opinions that others hould. And peraduenture wise men will thinke that the distinctions found out, are but euasions do what they would not seeme, whilst in the meane time they might lurke vnder some equiuocall cloud as the Iesuits doe.

2 Further, you desire that your present subscription might not bee diuulged, but as your selfe might open it, a thing you see both yeilded vnto, and performed by those, in whose power it was but doubt­full what intention you had, in concealing of it; I can easily afford you so much charity as to thinke it was, least some sinister and false collections might be deri­ued from it, whilest some others (peraduenture) more probably think, that you meant to beare your brethren in hand, that you yeilded not so farre as in truth ye did. Consider if the concealement of this subscrip­tion haue not some proportion with the hypocricy of [Page 42] Saul, 1. Sam. 15, 30. but honour me I pray thee before the elders of my people: and that which you feare would be taken to be an euil conscience, could not (but in the iudgement of so wise a Prince) be thought an obedient and an humble mind.

3 The third thing is, that notwithstanding your al­lowance of these ceremonies, yet you could not con­forme your selfe, but would willingly allow the prac­tise of them by some other, euen in your owne cure, this in my apprehension doth seeme strange, for seeing your flocke haue that good opinion of you as is fit for sheepe to haue of their pastor, and that you feare not any scandal amongst them (as your selfe afterward con­fessed) your example might haue remooued both from them & others neare vnto you all offence (if there were any) who peraduenture might haue stumbled at the same things being vsed by others, and scandal being so, dangerous is not fit to be offered by a Curate.

4 Fourthly, you intreat compassion towards the ministers in a few lighter things. Let me tell you that mildnesse in some other cases may be a vertue, but in this a vice: and surely he fayleth in his episcopall cou­rage, who through remisnesse or pitie suffereth the lawes of the Church (by being wilfully broken) to be vnhallowed disturbers of the Churches peace, and surely if the vrging of subscription which the law re­quired, haue beene the cause of the seuerall dissentions in our Church, a worse effect could not haue procee­ded from so good a cause, then that that which was a vertuous inuention to make peace, by the vnquiet dis­position of some few should become the originall fountaine of so much warr. Besides, experience telleth vs that the mildnes which that Reuerend Archbishop [Page 43] Grindall vsed in those times little auailed with those men for to make them better, and the last Archbishop of famous memory found it to be most true that such as were spared eyther from his owne compassion, Whitgif [...]. the im­portunity of others, or a hope to win thē by this means, the fauour shewed them in that kind they esteemed but desert, & his mildnes & patiēce to be their own merit: besides, the things are not to be esteemed few or light which are manifold disobediēces to those peaceable or­ders & lawful cōstitutions which the Church maketh.

5 Fiftly, you feare not so much the offence of those with whom you do now liue, as of other places where you haue liued. In Norwick. This can be no good pretence for diso­bediēce in this case, seeing they by your example were most fit to be resolued of the true lawfulnesse of those things, An alteration in the intent and purpose of the Church of England, in re­quiring sub­scription. of whose suspected vnlawfulnes they first grew iealous by your doctrine, who since I hope haue been better taught.

ANSVVER.

THere is little hope of sufficient strength in the se­quell of this Apology, whose foundation is laide vpon so false a ground; nature hauing taught all men this truth, that where the beginnings of things faile, the deductions which are (as it were) an issue procee­ding from the same originall, must needes bee worse, both because all vertue, which is cōmunicated (except imediately from the author of all vertue) must by par­ticipation bee weakned, and all admission of concur­rence in other causes, cannot but make something which is weake, Insimulari quiuis innocens a quo­uis nebulone po­test, Apuleius. cleaue vnto that vertue: besides, no­thing is so easie (if there were either as much honesty or safety in it) as for men euill disposed, to wrong those that are innocent, whome if wee cleare from all fault, (as they deserue) we shall either bee thought to flatter, or else burden their modestie with their deserued prai­ses. A change in you, not in opinion, but in obedience can no way be iustified, but by an accusation of our whole state, as if that now vpon the sodaine, wee va­ried and declyned, not from the doctrine, but from the intention and purpose, that the Church had. Wee ac­cept very willingly, that which you haue graunted, & which no aduersaries to this Church, shal be euer able to disproue, that as the foundation of our doctrine is the vnchangeable word of truth, so it is & hath beene like the author thereof, God himselfe, euer constant and the same: neither can the vsuall imputations of difference laid by our aduersaries, bee any blemish to vs, seeing those things wherein wee dissent are rather [Page 46] the opinions of some few, then the setled consent of the whole Church. It seemeth you haue hitherto mis­taken what subscription was, supposing it to import an Admonition of things so farre tollerable, that men not other­wise priudiced, might lawfully vse them beeing imposed. Where priuate fancies aduēture to interpret the limi­tations of their own obedience, the wisdome of those that make lawes, shall haue little vse, & men disposed not to obey wil find colorable excuses (vnder pretence of being preiudiced) for that which they do refuse: could any man think Subscription to be a Tolleration, onely of things not to be approued, and not rather an allow­ance of things to be tollerated, the intention (doubtles) of the Church in this, was not to require a tolleration or approbation frō you, or any inferior, of such things as were thought fit for the Church to commād, but to tye the tongues and the hands of all men, from distur­bing the Churches quiet, & frō any way resisting those lawful ordinations that preserue peace. Rom. 13. It cannot bee the duety of inferiours to examine with what reason lawes are made (seing other places & times wherein they are interessed, are appointed to that end) but only by obedience, to giue an allowance, & by subscribing an approbation to what the lawes command; which either by way of tolleration to indure without appro­bation, or in show to approue without an harty allow­ance, were subtilly (by conformity) to procure their owne peace, and dangerously, when occasion should serue, Cano. 36. to disturbe the Church. Would any man do that vnder his hand, which he is loath to be commanded to doe ex animo ▪ surely, it cannot be seuerity in that lawe, which requireth the heart to consent to what the hand [Page 47] doth, seing reason telleth vs, that in reasonable actions, the hands and the tongue should expresse the heart, & whosoeuer desireth to seuere these, either intendeth to dally with God, or to delude man. But many things (say you) are in the Communion booke, which may be tollerated, but not approued: Tollerabiles in­eptiae. Discourse of the troubles a [...] Franckford. pag 35. for therin are multae tolle­rabiles ineptiae. Indeed, it pleased M. Caluin (writing his censure of that booke from Geneua, to Knox and Whit­tingam at Frankford) to say as you doe, that in it were many tollerable follies. But we see not how either (if they be follies) they can be tollerable in a Church Ly­turgy, or how any dispraises of ours haue inuented a Lyturgy of their owne, more absolute and perfect then ours is: but least the commendation of this should be thought but the opinion▪ of such as were willing to flatter the state, at that time the graue approbation of that holy Martyr Doctor Taylor, is fit to be alledged in this place, a censure giuen in Englād, within two daies of that which before M. Caluin gaue. There was (saith he) set forth by the most innocent king Edward for whom God be praised euerlastingly) the whole Church serui [...]e, with great deliberation, In his confe­rence betwixt him and Bish. Gardiner. Ian. 22.1555. Act. and [...]on. fol. 1521. & the aduice of the best learned mē of the realm, & authorised by the whole Parliament, & receiued & pub­lished gladly by the whole Realme, which book was neuer re­formed but once (note that seldom alteratiōs are their vertues that were before vs) & yet by that one reformation, it was so fully perfected, according to the rules of our Christian religion in euery behalf, that no Christian cōsciēce (I pray you mark it) can be offēded with any thing therin contained, I mean of the book reformed. Si ner [...]mnia [...]re­ [...]tionem sancto­rum verba dis­curra [...] quantum existimo nihil. And shal we now frō the cōceipt of so [...]e few, make light accoūt of so honorable a testimony, & not rather say of this booke, as S. Austin doth in [Page 48] another case. If thou runnest through all the wordes of the holy prayers; Inuenies quod nō ista dominica cō ­tineat & conclu­dat oratio. Aust. Epist. 12. ad probā viduam. I suppose, thou shalt finde nothing which the Lords Prayer doth not containe and comprehend, therefore wee may in other words speake the same things in our Pray­ers, but wee may not speake contrary thinges. Those of great place, who thinke some things fit to be remo­ued, may peraduenture be wronged by you: for if their wisdome bee answerable to their places, they knowe, and must confesse, both alterations with cause to bee dangerous, and without (cause such as this were) to be needlesse. No man would blame you to obserue the moderation, Lib. 2. contr. par. cap. 2. which you mention, out of Saint Austin: for, quisquis, vel quod potest arguendo corrigit, vel quod corrigere non potest, saluo pacis vinculo excludit, vel quod saluo pacis vinculo excludere non potest aequitate improbat, firmitate supportat, hic pacificus est. In all which, if most of the refusers to subscribe, haue failed, wee must needes say with the Prophet DAVID; The way of peace haue they not knowne. Et quia hoc cre­dunt cum Impu­denter dicunt Christiani sumus audent di [...]ere nos soli sumus. Aust. contr. parmenia­num lib. 1. Cap. 3. Ipsa quippe mu­tatio consuetu­dinis, etiam quae adiuuat vtilita­te, nouitate per­turbat. Aust. And because they beleeue, when impu­dently they say, wee are holy, they dare say, wee alone are holy: but if these things may bee well obserued, the faults in commaunding (doubtlesse) wil not bee requi­red at your hands, and surely, the wisdome in our Go­uernours was great, who sawe that in alterations of custome, that which may helpe (peraduenture) with the profit of it (doubtlesse) with the nouelty of change will doe more hurt, and yet in reason, you cannot but acknowledge that their LL. haue done wel in cōman­ding these Ceremonies, beeing both ancient and ser­uing for order, and to edefication, vnlesse you can shew that they are vnlawfull.

But say you, hath God in vaine commaunded dissi­similitude [Page 50] with Idolators? Were the Fathers vnwise that called so instantly from conformity with the hea­then, or the sects of Iewes or hereticks in matters indiff­erent, such as a garland or habit, or keeping of Easter daye or thryse dippings? &c.

In the weaknes of my vnderstanding these can be no warrents for your manifest dissenting from the orders of this church; are the rulers Idolatours? are the things commaunded idolatrye? you yourself haue cleared thē from that fault. Magnum Ecclesiae lumen nisi caduca stella fuiss [...]t. Lisp. Tertullian a great light (surely of the Church (if he had not beene a falling starre) reporteth of one (at whome peraduenture you aime in mentio­ning the garland) who chose rather to dye, then with the rest of the souldiers to be crowned with lawrel, on­ly in this respect, that the Christians had a ceremony not to doe it. For to cast away (in time of persecution) the badge and signes of their warfare, was to discouer vnto the world, that they were cowardly soldiers, and (vndoubtedly) in the Church, there would haue beene no difference about thrise dipping, if the Arrians had not abused it, to establish their heresie of the three na­tures of the three persons, Lege Gregor. lib. 1. Epist. 41. a [...] Leandra. Concil. Tol. 4. Cap. 5. which made Gregory to cō ­maund, that through all Spaine, there should bee but once dipping, and this after was confirmed by the Counsell of Toledo: but speak seriously without affecti­on, is there any thing remaining in our Church of this nature? Is there any thing exacted of this dan­ger? Doubtlesse, if there were most of these Reuerēd Fathers, who now are earnest exacters of obedience & subscription in these things, would be humblysuters to his Maiesty, that the burden therof might be remoued from the shoulders of their brethren, & that the beauty of the Gospel might not be blemisht with these stains.

ANSVVER.

IF the iudgements of men had as much power to dis­cerne, as their opinions haue strength to apply, false causes would bee no imputation to truth: neither should innocency suffer as an euill doer: but where hurts are sensibly perceiued, and yet the groundes of those euils directly mistaken, Iustice must suffer as a transgressor, and mindes vertuous must be punished for the faults which are none of theirs. Wee cannot better esteeme Good, then by that goodnesse which it bringeth vnto vs, and in those things which are not easily discerned what they are, that we may not be car­ried with a preposterous loue, wee reuerēce the iudge­ments of the learned: We dissent not easily from the practise of the sister Churches: Wee are vnwilling to treade euen in the least steppes of Idolatry. Wee es­chewe the contentions of former times: Wee cast the accoūt of what benefits we haue receiued by their means, and then wee dare deliuer our opinion in this case: That the Ceremonies commanded in the church of England (howsoeuer vncharitably traduced, as su­perstitious & Antichristian) are neither dissēting from the opinion of the best, and most of the most learned in this age (both Vniuersities hauing giuen their al­lowance [Page 52] of them) nor disagreable to the practise of the sister Churches (vnlesse you meane Geneua, whom ne­cessitie droue to entertaine that discipline, not as best, but as then safest and fittest for her) nor so ioynd with Idolatry, but that all men can make a difference, nor the cause of contention, had not men rather loued that, then to bee obedient, nor lately a hinderance to the Gospell in this fortie fiue yeares, wherein infinite numbers haue beene reformed, and many more would haue beene, but for the contentions of these men, and therefore, Bonus doctor est qui in humilitate seruat disciplinā, et per disciplinā non incurrit in superbiam. Isiodor. lib. 3. de summo bono. cap. 40. vntill we come to the particuler examinati­on of the exceptions, that are made against them, wee answere these interrogatiues with negatiues, and al­lowe him to be a good teacher, who in humility obser­ueth discipline, and by discipline doth not incurre pride.

ANSVVER.

SEeing the principall cause of our departure from the Church of Rome, was that idolatrie which like a canker hath infected the best parts of their worship, we cannot but thinke it an accusation both vnreaso­nable and strange to lay this blemish vpon those that doe rule ouer vs, as if they meant (by retayning some ceremonies) to bring vs backe againe to the Idolatrous slauery of that Church. But first to thinke the oppo­sition ought necessarily to be so great betwixt them and vs, as that nothing were now lawfull for vs that were vsed by them were peraduenture to traduce to [Page 54] our posteritie without cause, as the corrupters of all religion in all parts, and to denie vnto our selues the iust furtherances of pietie and holines, onely because Idolatrie and superstition had corrupted those meanes amongst them, but if neither they esteeme so of the Crosse, that the transiant signe (as you call it) is to be worshipped with deuine worship, nor that we haue proportioned our selues in the same ceremonie to the supposed or manifest Idolatrie amongest them: The iniury must needes bee accounted greate vpon an o­pinion of zeale, to wound euen through the sides of her enemie, the vitall partes of that Church that doth giue vs life. Peter Martyr (from whence it see­meth you haue taken this accusation) saith that the Church of Rome teach, Part. 2. cap. 5. That the signe of the Crosse is to be worshipped with Latreia. Which surely by him was vnderstood not of the signe transiant, but of that verie crosse, whereon Christ suffered, which they make a relicke, we will not stand to examine their er­rour in this point, Non est dicendum imagines vllas adorari debere Latria. Bellar. Tom. 1. lib. 2. d [...] imag. cap. 22. onely let me put you in mind what Bellarmin saith, That it is not to be taught that any Images are to be worshipped Latreia. And to this end he allead­geth the authoritie of diuers councels. What then must wee say to your reason which is grounded vpon that which they say not? but we will suppose, seeing Peter Martyr doth ioyne with you that it was their opi­nion, although they haue reclaimed it at this day, must it therefore needs follow, that eyther it is so vsed by vs, or by vs not lawfull to be vsed at all? hath there beene any greater idolatrie in the Church of Rome, then that which they exhibiting to the bread in the Supper, vpon an opinion of Transsubstantiation haue therewith vn­hallowed [Page 56] and prophaned the blessed Sacrament, and yet may not wee (nay ought wee not) lawfully to retaine it as a thing holy? Nay, Peter Martyr himselfe confesseth, whom sundry times you alleadge as your patron in this cause, That the signe of the Crosse is worne by Princes vpon their crownes without super­stition, because by that signe, they onely testifie and professe that they honour and maintaine the reli­gion of Christ. But peraduenture you will say wee ought not to make it a significatiue ceremonie to ex­presse that warfare which wee vndertake when we are baptized: Loc. Com. part. 2. cap. 5.20 heare what he saith: If it bee lawfull for a man to beare in his armes the badge of his owne fami­mily: It is also lawful for him by the signe of the crosse to professe Christian Religion, there is some difference from them whilst we vse it in Baptisme which you giue vs occasion fitly to handle in another place, onely let me tell you, that if the Papists worship the Crosse more than they ought, must the Church of England neglect the vse thereof more then the ancient Chur­cher haue done, or then any moderate and wise Chri­stians would do, who glory in nothing so much as the crosse of Christ, which was not vnderstood of afflicti­ons (although wee may glory in them) but euen of the sufferings of Christ vpon that crosse whereon he died. See the Reue. Bish. of Winch. in his last boo [...]. Neither hath the crosse as it is vsed in our Church any proportion eyther with the brasen Serpent, when it was broken, or the groues forbidden, seeing the one continued vntill it was strangely prophaned by in­sence from their handes, Deut▪ 16.2 [...]. who were not allowed at any time to offer any, and the groues not simply forbidden, but when they were neare the altar. [Page 56] In this respect vertuously restraint hath beene made of the ouer frequent vse of that signe tending to I­dolatry, to auoid superstition, and yet a discreete ad­mission of some vse thereof, to eschew prophannesse. Neyther can we commend your vnwillingnesse to ap­proue the Reuerend Fathers of the Church for the continuance of these things, seeing they had power to helpe them, we will not examin their power (wee wish it were farre greater) we know their discretion and wisedome hath and shall infinitly beenefit the Church by the late Canons; and for those who per­aduenture allow the things as you speake, but ap­prooue not the commaunding of them, we must say as Saint Austin doth, Non est amicus recti quando si fieri posset mallet id quod rectum est non fieri. Aust. inps. 66. he is not a friend to the truth, who had rather if it were possible that that which is truth were not commaunded. Neyther is the warre about these things so needlesse as you thinke, seeing it is like that if euer there were out of milde patience strongly and vehe­mently (euen with much hypocrisie) importuned any truce, the Church hath receiued more hurt by that, then by all the seueritie which requiring obedience doth bring peace.

ANSVVER.

THe custome of accusing the lawfull ordinances of this Church hath imboldened some men (aboue both dutie and reason) to continue still vehement in their first opposition, which peraduenture at the beginning was vndertaken without cause, this land as it neyther doth, nor I hope euer shall professe any other doctrine, but that which is sincere and true. The learned discourse of [...]. Our home aduersaries confessing, that for the substance of Religion it maintayneth the true and the holy faith, so for our publike Lyturgye which now is misliked by you, wee will first take the cen­sure of one as strickt as any that liued eyther since, or before him, and after (if wee be further vrged) en­ter into the particular defence of all that iustly can bee misliked in our Church, not that wee are wil­ling to giue any strength to this last errour, or to flatter for aduancement the eye or the hand of this time, (an infirmitie which we hope shall not cleaue vnto vs) but because wee are perswaded in consci­ence, that the holy Spirit hath directed the con­sultations of the fathers of our Church (euen then when first they banished superstition) to frame by the [Page 60] assistance of a Diuine power, a publike seruice of God in this land, purer for the matter, more effe­ctuall for vse, more chast for ceremonie, more pow­erfull to procure deuotion, then any Lyturgye pub­licklye established since the defection from the pri­mitiue Church: Deering against H [...]don in his booke call [...]d a sparing re­straint. Of which (as I promised) I must tell you what Maister Deering said, Looke if any line be blameable in our seruice, take holde of your aduan­tage, I thinke Maister Iewell will accept it for an article, our seruice is good and godly, euerie title grounded vpon holy Scriptures, and with what face doe you call it darknesse? But men are ashamed to seeme guiltie, Erubescit ali­qu [...]do s [...]ri reus, qui semper fue­rat Index. Chri­sost. who alwaies haue beene Iudges, or at least accusers. That then which you mislike in this place (for the rest wee shall indeuour to defend, when wee come vnto them) is the reseruation, euen of the par­cels of those Chapters, some parts whereof we reiect as drosse, that is, to summe vp your whole accusation in few words, that no Apocripha is publikely to be read in diuine seruice. The Church of Christ according to her authoritie receiued from him, hath warrant to ap­prooue the Scriptures, D. Whitaker. to acknowledge, to receiue, to publish and to commaund vnto her children: so then, that the Scriptures are true to vs, wee haue it from the Church, but that we beleeue them as true in them­selues, we haue it from the holy Ghost. By this power the Church hath severed those parcels of Scripture by the name of Apocripha from those, which vndoubtedly were penned from Gods Spirit. In this diuision, ney­ther hath the light nor the approbation beene all one, seeing euen some partes penned by the holy Ghost, (and so now generally approued both by the Church [Page 61] of Rome and vs) haue had some difficulty, not without great examination to be admitted into the Catalogue of Gods Canon. As the Epistle to the Hebrewes, of S. Iames, the second of Peter, the second and third of Iohn, the Epistle of Iude, and the Reuelation. And how­soeuer those that were neuer doubted of, may seeme to haue (in some sort) greater authoritie then those that were: Zanch. de Res. Ca. Hiero in praefat. in. lib. Salom. Cyp. in Simb. Con. Laodi. cap. 59. yet wee giue them (saith M. Zanchy) equall cre­dit with the rest, and to the Apocripha, the next place of all other to the holy Scripture. The Canonical on­ly wee allow for probation of the doctrine of Faith, but the other (being proued) for the confirmation ther­of: Nay, the Church of Rome confesseth (howsoeuer they and wee differ, Apocriphis non est dādus in Cano ne locus. Dryedo. lib. 4. cap. 1. de lib. Apocriphis. which are Canonicall) that the A­pocripha in the Canon are to haue no place.

Saint Austin calleth by a larger acceptation of the word Canonicall, euen those, which though they had not perfect and certaine authority, yet accustomably were read in the Church, to edefie the people: a cus­tome (as it seemeth) neither now, nor differing from the practise of our Church. Chatachumenis Pag. 27. Contro▪. 1. de scriptura. Athanasius allowed them to some men. The third Coūsel of Carthage not at al. Cyrill Bishoppe of Ierusalem reiectes them from beeing read in the Church, of whome Doctor Whitakers (whome you alledge) giueth this censure, Hiero. in praefat. in libros Salo. in this Cyrill (peraduēture) was ouer vehement which forbad these bookes to be read at all. For other Fathers, although they accounted them Apocripha, yet they permitted them to be read. And Saint Hierome speaketh of the booke of wisdome and of Ecclesiasticus (out of which two is more read in our seruice then out of al the Apo­cripha besides) that they may be reade to the edificati­on [Page 62] of the people not to confirme the authoritye of Ecclesiastical opinions or decrees, this (peraduenture) was not vnfit, Quodam simi­tudme Salo monis esse dicuntur Cō ­cil. Trudent. sissi. 4. de Scripturis. seeing antiquity thought as the counsel of Trent hath set downe, that by a kinde of similitude, they might seeme to bee Salomons. Wherein (notwith­standing) because there are thought to bee some errors according to the graue moderation of our dread Soue­raigne, whose wisdome appeared in this, like the wis­dome of Salomon, Conser. at Hamp. pag. 61. Lect 26.46 are le [...]t out. Nouemb 7.17. Harmonia Cons. Gallia. Belgia. wee reiect such parcels as are faultie, and retaine the rest. And yet those, which according to the example of the most reformed Churches (for you rule vs in all things by the tyranny of example) are retained amongst vs, are neither read nor esteemed as the rest of the holy scriptures, seing liberty is left to all men in their seuerall charges, to informe their people in the different valuation of these writings (which though the Canon forbid in the Lyturgy, Canon. 14. both be­cause our additions are vnseemly, and often vnsafe) yet it is lawfull in your Sermon, to instruct your pa [...]ish, what respect and authority is to bee giuen vnto these bookes: and therefore your feare (in my opinion) is needlesse, seeing the very naming of the booke from whence the lesson is taken, to the most of your hearers, will bee difference enough. Non [...]unt contē ­nenda quasi par. na sine quibus magna constare non [...]o [...]unt. Hierom. Epist. ad Laeta. S [...]pes [...]ect [...]t Hu­mililitas quoduce virtus po [...]uit s [...] ­per are nic ratio. Ambros. Let me aduise you there­fore, according to the counsell of Saint Hierom, not to contemne those things, as smal, without which things, that are greater cannot well stand. And therfore it is wisdom, to leaue both the reading and the often rea­ding of these bookes, to the wisdome and direction of those that doe rule ouer vs, and (I hope) humility will conquer you in this case, if neither vertue nor reason could ouercome, onely I must tell you before I [Page 63] end this point, By my Lords Grace that now is. Confer pag. 60. that if Saint Hierom were taxed at the conference, as the first that gaue them the name of A­pocripha, there wanted both duery and thankfulnesse in you, to interpose that clause (though not truely, for Cyrill did it before him), Chatech 4. in fine Hiero. omnium a [...]tissim [...] è Cano. reijcit. Whitak. pag. 25. contro. prima de Scrip. Seeing all men knowe that Hi­erom was the first, that of all other did openly tearme them by that name, & (without all exception) amōgst the Latine Fathers, for any thing that I knowe, was the first, neither was Cyrill his opinion equally sound to S. Hieroms in this case, seeing all men knowe, that by him B [...]ruch was accounted Canonicall, which worthyly is refused by our Church. Sisentis benefici­um, reddedebitū, si ac. [...]pis benig­n [...] tatem, redde charitatem. Hug, C [...]ntra rationem nemo sobrius, con­tra scripturam nemo Christia­nus, contra Eccle▪ nemo pacificus senserit. Aust. de Trinita. lib. 4. cap. 6. And therefore, if you acknow­ledge the benfit you haue receiued, discharge your debt, and hauing receiued fauour as at his hands, returne loue, as Hugo speaketh. For as S. Austin saith, none that is sober, will striue against reason, None that is a christian, a­gainst the Scripture, and none that loueth peace, will thinke contrary to that which the Church doth. And if beyond this, you will needes feare, it may argue your loue, but not your knowledge. Besides, what wisdome (euen in the greatest safety) can make a freedom from feare, in the mindes of some melancholy humours.

ANSVVER.

SEeing it pleaseth you to repeat the same things, as new, which often heretofore haue beene answered, both by vs and others: It shall not bee (I hope) offen­siue to any If we say againe what (else where) wee haue vttered, which peraduenture hath not come vnto your vew. That because men are easily wearied in those duties that are best, and prayer making vs apt to fall into speculations concerning God, both that our wearines may be lesse, and our thoughts more sound and more agreable to the present busines, those wise men that haue beene before vs haue chosen lessōs for the church (fitting seuerall occasions) that as prayer make vs fitter to hear, Iust. Mart. 2. A­poleg. Tertul. in Apoc. 39. so the hearing of these may make [Page 65] vs fitter to pray. To read scriptures in the time of diuine seruice, wee hope being auncient and of such vse, their wisdom will not much mislike, Coloss. 4.16. 1. Thess. 5.27. Saint Austin in many places mentioneth this custome to be ancient, and vsuall. De ciuit. lib. 22. Ser. 236. Luke 4. Act. 13.15.17.18. & if the name of epistle doe offend, you cannot but know that the originall of this (both for the name and the thing) was from Paule himselfe, commanding the same Epistle which he sent vnto the Collossians to be read in the Church of the Laodiceans, and of that to the Thessalonians (he saith) I charge you in the Lord that this Epistle be read vnto all the brethren the Saints▪ from which custome the Church hauing appoynted that portion of scrip­ture, whether out of the prophets, Acts of the Apostle, or Reuelation, which circumstances considered, was thought then fittest to be read vnto the people, as if it were sent directlye vnto them, thereby procuring their attention, is not vnfitly tearmed by the name of Epistle: to these as Saint Chrisostome noteth, the minister stood vp and cryed with a loude voyce. Let vs attend: this practise hath resemblance to the practise of the Iewes euen vntill this daye, amongst whome some thing is read euerye Sabboth out of Moses, or the prophets, be­sides these, if any thing offend through the seueritye of some expositions (as what scripture so holye that some expositions will not corrupt) wee desire more charitye at their hands, seing the cause wee defend is the Ho­nour of our church, the wisdome of our forefathers, the worship of God, and not our owne wils, for which onlye if our Reuerend fathers had been ingaged, they would (I doubt not long since) rather haue relinquished their owne right, then with so much preiudice haue ha­zarded the Churches peace: as for the Church of Rome, we are so farre from being vnwilling, that they should [Page 66] ingrosse our speeches, as that wee daily and heartily pray, that they would in all thinges both thinke and speake as wee do.

And if you, or any other (notwithstanding all this) shall labour to make the world beleeue, that the cou­rage of Bishops for defence of the Church, is but a stifnesse in their owne quarrels, wee must let the world vnderstand, which we know to be true, that greater moderation and patience ioyned with carefull thoughts of what was to be altered, hath by many degrees more appeared in them, then in the meanest of the Cleargie besides, wherewith if you cannot rest content, but de­sire them to followe the Counsell of Trent, in the alte­ration of these things, Propriètamen loquendo nulla Epistola est de ve­teri t [...]stamento, sed illae lectiones vocantur. Ste­phanus Durantus lib. 4 cap. 16. Sect. 6. wee are sory that out of loue to example, you will rather propound them then none, & to please you, wee can be content to say as Du [...]antus doth, that to speake properly, there is no Epistle out of the old Testament, but rather they are called Lessons.

ANSVVER.

FEw things are likely to escape vnreproued, where the best things in our Church are reprehēded, there is no duty vpon earth, that concerneth man, with a greater nearnes then prayer doth; Mook. lib. 5. Sect. 23. which vsuallye ex­presseth euen all the seruice that wee owe vnto God; for in religiō (as one wisely noteth) there is no accepta­ble duty, which deuout inuocation of the name of God doth not either presuppose or inferre: Math. 21.13. neither can there be greater approbation of this action (being pub­lick) then that the Temple being appointed for this end: in this respect God vouchsafeth, it to be accounted his house, as if Sermons, Sacrifices, Sacraments, and all other seruices performed in that place, were but se­cond intentions for the building thereof, in respect of Prayer. Now for the better performance of this duty, the late Canons haue renewed that care which in all ages was found in the gouernours of Christes Church, that the strange desire of some few to heare themselues speake, might not banish from amongst vs an institu­tion of that vse, a dutie of so much profit, an or­dinance so holy, as if for feare to displace preaching, our Temples ought not now to be accounted a house of prayer. We must first for answere to their iniurious ac­cusation in this case, tell them that neuer any (sa­uing some few & meane persons) haue disliked a forme of publike prayer; those which mislike ours, euen with the greatest seueritie that eyther malice, or (at the best) the most scrupulous conscience could inuent, haue beene able, but to alleadge some few shadowes [Page 69] of faults, all which haue beene often heretofore an­swered, and if any in the feruencie of a zealous consci­ence remaine as yet vnsatisfied, Bucerus in cens [...] ­ra de primo libv. sacrorum. we will be bold to vse the words vnto him of Bishop Ridley (after his con­demnation) to Master Grindall then beyond the seas. (Alas) that our brother Knox could not beare with our booke of common prayer, in matters against which, although I grant a man (as he is) of wit and learning, may finde to make appa­rant reasons, but I suppose he cannot be able soundly to dis­proue by Gods word, the reason he maketh against the Lete­ny, and the fault per sanguinem & sudorem, he findeth in the same. I doe marueile how he can or dare auouch them before the learned men that be with you. As for priuate Bap­tisme, It is not prescribed in the booke, but where solemne Baptisme for lacke of time and danger of death cannot be had, what would he in that case should be done? Peraduen­ture he will say, it is better then to let them die without Bap­tisme: For this his (better) what word hath he in the scrip­ture? and if he haue none, why will hee not rather follow that, that the sentences of the old ancient writers doe more allow? from whom to dissent without warrant of Gods word, I cannot thinke it any godly wisedome. And as for purifica­tion of women; I ween the word purification is changed, and it is called thankesgiuing: surely Maister Knox in my mind is a man of much good learning, and of an earnest zeale, the Lord grant him to vse them to his glorie. Thus farre Bi­shop Ridley: Bishop of London, and a blessed Mar­tyr, with whom, we say of a great number, they are learned, they are zealous, the Lord grant them to vse them to his glorie, for wee will confesse as Maister Bucer doth, there are not some few things wanting in the Lyturgye of England, which if they be not chari­tably [Page 59] interpreted, may seeme to dissent from the word of God. But accessimus (as Maister Iewell con­fesseth) quantum maximè potuimus ad Ecclesiam Apo­stolorum & veterum Catholicorum Episcoporum & pa­trum, quam scimus adhuc suisse integram atque (vt Ter­tullianus ait) incorruptam vi [...]ginem, Ioel. Apoc. cap. [...]6. part. 16. nulla dum idolclatria nec errore graui ac publico contaminatam, nec tantùm doctrinam nostram, sed etiam sacramenta, praecumque publicarum formam ad illorum ritus & instituta direxi­mus. In al which, doubtlesse there is nothing wanting, which is requisite in a religious & reformed Church, sauing the charitable construction of our brethren, who will needs (eyther out of singularitie, or feare) bee our aduersaries in this cause. And when no­thing can bee said against the forme of that Ly­turgy which wee vse, they blame the orders of our Church which inioyne the whole Lyturgy to be read at the vsuall houres. And vnder pretence of long prayers to banish preaching out of the Church: I meruaile that any man will obiect it now, seing it was an vntrue imputation long since by Master Cartwright layd vpon this church (but as one telleth him) neither aduisedly nor truly spoken: T. C. lib. 3. pag. 184. wee will not compare two things of that nearenes and vse together, but if some mens discretion could haue tempered their Zeale so farr, that their owne paynes (which they call Sermons) might haue beene shorter, and the orderly prayers of the church wholly read, I doubt not, but the religion of the people would haue beene much greater: the worship of God more sound, and the vnseasonable contentions of the Church farr lesse, and if they con­tinew [Page 60] but (as some before them haue done to allow) an houre & half, according to the pattern of reformed Churches, for the whole Lyturgy or seruice (wee are perswaded) it will both bee time sufficient for per­forming the intention of the Canon, Canon. 14. which forbid­deth all diminshing, in regard of preaching; & yet no man shal haue iust cause (if he be willing to preach) to complaine that hee wants time, or that the length of prayers hath deuoured the Church, for by this means (hauing time, which the wisdom of authority thinketh sufficient for both) all extemporall inuention of vn­sounde prayer, shall bee vtterly banished out of christes Church, and in Preaching the shortnesse of time shall necessarily cut off all impertinent discour­ses, whilest they are sorced to comprize abundance of matter in few words.

But if any man thinke the Communion booke at first to be ordayned in part, to supply the want of a Learned ministry, which being obtayned, may beomitted either in part or in whole, as men please; It is an error great­ly mistaking the first vse; and ouermuch differing from the modesty and humility of auncient tymes; Wherein the Apostles came into the Sinagogue of the Iewes at Antioch and sat downe, Act. 13.14.15. and after the Lecture of the law, & the prophetts (which I take was their ordinary seruice) the rulers of the Sinagogues sent vnto them, saying: ye men and brethren: if ye haue any word of ex­hortation for the people, say on: read the ordinary marginall note vpon this place, and it will seeme that the Sermon expected the finishing of ordinary diuine seruice, as neither all waies necessarily following, when [Page 72] this was, nor at any time presuming to be (vpon the Sabbath) when this was not: nor if the vnhallowed boldnesse of some in our time, hath aduentured to thrust the graue, religious, discreete, deliberate, and iu­dicious prayers established by authoritie out of our Churches, and forced them (against all reason) to giue place to an vnlearned, vnorderly, and bould exhortation without wisedome or sobrietie (onely somewhat glory­ing in the show of a hote zeale) was it not a petition necessary and seasonable, humbly at the conference to intreat of his Maiestie for a praying ministery? From the contempt whereof haue directly proceeded the prophannesse, the Atheisme, and all the want of Re­ligion in this land, yet let no man thinke, that ey­ther the Canons or any of the Reuerend Fathers de­sire that preaching may be lesse, but rather that with all modesty God being honoured in our praiers as we ought, wee maye the better be able to profit by those lessons that sermons doe giue vnto vs. And therefore it is ouer greate boldnes of our aduersaryes in this, to accuse any man in authoritye in the church as an ad­uersarie to preaching, Read Can. 33.34.42.43.44.45.46.47.59. &c. seing the whole scope of sundry of these late Canons prouideth better, for more and more learned Sermons, then any lawes heretofore concluded in this Kingdome; so that wee banish not prea­ching for prayers as you would make the world beleeue, but saye as our Sauiour doth in another case, this ought ye to haue done, but not to haue left the other vndone. For doubtles the children of God fynd continually an excellent vse of both, Math. 22.23. Orationibus mun. damur, lectioni­bus instruimur vtr [...]mque bo­ [...]um est si liccat, by prayer (saith Isiodore) wee are clensed, by reading and hearing wee are instructed: If both may be had, they are both good; If both cannot be [Page 73] had, it is better to pray. So then, to say lesse, then their vncharitable accusation deserueth in this cause, [...]i non liceat vtrumque, meli­us est orare. Hesiod. de suo bo­no. lib. 3. cap. 1 D. Bridges. Pag. 634. wee affirme that they surmise vs to seeke to haue preaching neglected, but wee know too wel, that praiers are con­temned by their meanes, from which at the last, with­out great care, the neglecting of preaching must needs follow, and therefore the restraynt of the one, with dis­cretion, to giue way to the other, is neither to delay, or delude the Kings purpose against an vnlearned and scanda­lous ministery; Tacit. lib. 3. cap. 6 or like the shadowe of the moone at the battell of Cremona, or an abuse to his Maiestie, a sinn to bishops, aplague to the Church, or to the offenders, Intollerable Insolencye in stead of deserued shame, but rather to speake truly, and as this wisdome deser­ueth in the vpright sinceritye of a good conscience, an execution of the Kings vertuous and religious care, an honour to his Princelye Maiestye, a holye discretion in the reuerend Bishops, a happines to the Church, & a brydle strayt enough to such as deserue shame, for now all may learne to be longer in prayers, and short­ter in Sermons, because speeches ouer much inlarged want vnderstanding (saith Saint Austen). Frequenter in longum protra­ctus sermo caret intelligentia. Aust. de doctr. Christi. Alteri ignoscito, tibi i [...]si nunquā. Senec. And you may be aduised heareafter to blame your selfe and to par­don others.

ANSVVER.

IF the Church of England, for blessings the most happy, for learning the most sufficient, for sincerity of Religion the most reformed, and for Lawes and or­dinations that concerne piety, the most vpright (be it spoken without enuie) of all the Churches of Europe at this day, haue no greater blemish to staine her with, then the drowning of the Canonicall Scripture, which you impute vnto her. Wee are and will bee euer readie (although the meanest of many thousands that liue in her bosome) to proue her Innocent. Whereas, if shee haue wilfully silenced Gods truth, and vttered vnto the people vanity and Lyes in steade thereof, wee will mourne for the sinnes of our mother, with hearty sor­rowe, and not enter into the defence of so great a fault: for, God forbid, that any partiall affection to her (who whilest she is vpon earth, may erre) should make vs transgresse against our father in heauen, who is trueth it selfe, but if shee haue done nothing in this case, which well befitted not the wisdome and care of a mo­ther (howsoeuer it please others to mistake her mea­ning) then let her great wisdome bee iustified of her owne children: to reade in the Church of God, the Scriptures haue beene the honour of our Liturgy, the happynes of our people, and the true and readiest directions to a better life; but either to reade them all, or onely to reade them, our forefathers (in discretion) did not think safe; seeing the one might bee to small vse, the other not without great profit, and both most agreable to the wisdome and practise of former times: for if a hundred & threescore chapters of the Canon be omit­ted, as you say (for we can be content to take your ac­count [Page 76] in this case) and therein some whole bookes, as the Chronicles, Canticles, & most of the Apocalipse be left out, wee nether doe in this, without warrant what otherwise refuse, nor refuse to doe with war­rant, that which reasonably was practised by those that liued before, and yet are neither some things in all the bookes of Apocripha, nor all things in some of them, by authority permitted publicklye to bee read in our Church, and those which are (as often you haue been told) are not for confirming of faith, but to reform manners. And so (as Saint Austen speaketh) from the customary phrase of the Church wee retayne them and read them as parts of the ould Testamēt. Ad exempla vitae & forman [...]os▪ mores, non ad dogmata cofir­manda. All which (we confesse) inpropryat you of speech onlye to bee written by Moses, and by the prophets, but from the time of Ar­taxerxes, to the age, wherin Iosephus wrot, the want of prophets was supplied for the continuance of the Hi­storie of those times, by other men godly and zealous that were no Prophets, which was the true cause, that they were of lesse estimation, then all the rest of the Scriptures are; but if we show the reputation that the Apocripha had, & that (as Saint Cyprian speaketh) these anciently were accustomed to be read in the Church, Cyprian de symb. then neither doth this Church deuise any new custom, nor by the admission of these, can worthily be iudged to silence the holy Scripture: Saint Austin writing a­gainst some Pelagian Libertines of his time, alleadgeth a place out of the booke of Wisedom, wherunto excep­tion was taken, that this booke was not Canonicall; hereof thus Saint Hilary wrot vnto him: Illud testi­monium quod posuisti (raptus est ne malitia mutaret intel­lectum eius) tanquam non Canonicum definiunt omitten­dum: [Page 77] Vpon this occasion, amongst some other reasons, to iustifie his allegation, he sheweth fi [...]st, that excepta hu [...]us libri attestatione, August. de prae­dist cap 14. the thing that he proueth therby is otherwise manifest; then he saith, that many worthy men (such as Saint Cyprian was etiam temporibus A­postolorum proximis) alleadging, nihil se adhibere nisi di­uinum testimonium crediderunt: and againe, non debuit repudiari sententia libri Saptentiae, qui meruit in Ecclesia Christi tam longa amositate recitari, & ab omnibus Chri­stianis, ab Episcopis vsque ad extremos laicos fideles, poeni­tentes, Catechumenos, cum veneratione diuinae authorita­tis audiri: So that if in Saint Austins time, who liued not much aboue foure hundred yeares after Christ, some of these (which we call Apocripha) were of long continuance read in the Church, and of all (euen from the Bishops to the meanest layitie) heard with the at­tention and reuerence of diuine Scripture; how can we iustly be blamed to retaine them, or be thought in this so ancient and so warrantable a custome, wilfully to silence the Canon of holy Scripture? Saint Hierom (who of al other was most earnest to distinguish these books frō the Canonical, Hiero, in praefat. in Prouerb. yet) sheweth that they were anciently read: Sicut Iudith & Tobiae & Machabae­orum libros legit quidem Ecclesia, sed eos inter Canonicas scripturas non recipit: sic & haec duo volumina (intelligit Sapientiam & Ecclesiasticam) legit ad aedificationē plebis, non ad authoritatem Ecclesiasticorum dogmatum confirman­dam. But if Saint ( Hierom who was most earnest against these bookes) cannot moue you to approue (as warran­table) their reading in our Church, the consent (perad­uenture) and the practise of the Churches reformed may. Harmo. Confess▪ Sect. 1. Confess. H [...]lum. In the harmony of confessions set out at Geneua [Page 78] this article of the Belgick confession is there approued. Differentiam porro constituimus inter libros istos sacros, & eos quos Apocriphos vocant, vtpote quod Apocriphi legi qui­dem in Ecclesia possunt, & fas sit ex illis eatenus etiam su­more documenta, quatenus cum libris Canonicis consonant: At neutiquam ea est ipsorum authoritas & firmitudo, vt ex illorum testimonio aliquod dogma de fide & religione Chri­stiana certo constitui possit, Articul in Synod 1562. Zanch. de Relig. cap. 1. art 4.5. Pellic. in praes. in Apocriph. Chenis. exam. Concil. Trid. de Script. Can. Kimedo. de scrip. vero. dei. lib. 6. cap. 9. tantum abest vt aliorum authori­tatem infringere vel munere valeant: Hereunto agreeth the confession of this Church Zanchy giueth them the next place to the Canonicall Scripture, and this (as himselfe confesseth) not without warrant both of the Greeke and the Latin Church, hereunto wee may add the testimonie of others, as of Pellican Chenitius and Kymedencius, all not ouer great fauourers of vs, and whom our aduersaries may not refuse in this case: all consent in this: Sciendum maioribus placuisse vt preter libros vere Canonicos ex quibus fidei nostrae assertiones con­stant, Ecclesiastici quoque ad plebis aedificationem publicè le­gerentur vt sunt liber Sapientiae, Ecclesiastici, libellus To­biae &c. From all antiquitie, it then appearing many thinges profitable to edification, to be read in the Church, both in the time of the Iewes before Christ, as also since, which the Church did not esteeme Ca­nonicall, how can it be a silencing of the Scripture in vs, who onely after the example of all antiquitie, read some writings which were called Ecclesiasticall, and more profitable to edification then some Scriptures, although not of equall authoritie for doctrine of faith, as the rest of the Scriptures are, neither was this cu­stome euer thought vntill now of late vnlawfull and idle, Hook. lib. 5. pag. 37. but lawfull, and of much vse, nor as one well no­teth, [Page 79] can it be reasonably thought, because vpon cer­taine solemne occasions some Lessons are chosen out of those bookes, and of Scripture it selfe, some Chap­ters not appointed to be read at all, that we therby do offer disgrace to the word of God, or lift vp the wri­tings of men aboue it. For in such choise (considering the intent of the Church) we do not thinke but that fit­nes of speech may be more respected then worthines. And therfore although for the peoples more plain instruc­tion (as the ancient vse hath bin) we read in our Chur­ches some Apocripha, besides the Scripture, yet as the scripture we read them not, all men know the differēce that the Church of England maketh in this point. But men shall easily fall into error when they once oppose their priuate iudgement against the Reuerend autho­rity of their owne Church, neither is their conclusion altogether sound, that seeing Moses amongst the Iewes was read euery Sabbath day in their Synagogues, that therefore such Scripture should be onely read, which had the same authority that the writings of Moses had, vnlesse they be able to proue that it was not lawfull for any bookes to be read of them, but the bookes of Moses, which if it were true (as all men know it is not) then eyther there was no Scripture, but the bookes of Moses, or elfe all partes of the Scripture was not read in the Iewish Synagogues. If they vrge vs further with the councell of Laodicea, which forbiddeth a­ny thing to be read, that is not Canonicall, we must tell them that the same councell accounteth that Canonicall which is not. Further, we must craue leaue of those who vrge so strictly the reading of the whole Scripture in Churches, in what part of [Page 80] the world; or in what tōgue the new testamēt was read in the purest times. Besides, if the authority of Saint Hierome (which you vrge against vs) may be accepted as sufficient in this case against you, he will tel you that some part of the beginning of Genesis, In praefat. in Ezech. the Canticles, the beginning of Ezechiel were not amongst the Iewes permitted to be read of any, vnlesse they were comne to the age of priesthood, which was thirtye, from whence (paraduenture) the gouernors of our Church haue re­strayned their voyces frō speaking (by bare reading) to the comon people, who either vnderstand them not at all (being so read) or else peruert them to their owne harme, this is not to sylence them (as you say) but ra­ther to reserue them to a better and safer vse, that those (who for soundnes of Iudgment & knowledge are able) maye reade and expound them at seasons, which are more conuenient. This, if it weare not by lawes strictly commaunded to be obserued of all, but should giue li­berty (as you seeme to desire) to some able ministers to doe otherwise, Ignorance (which is euer boldest) would take aduantage continually to be reading the obscurest chapters, whereby the church of necessity could not chuse, but receiue greate harme, & therfore the desires of a few (peraduenture) by reason of their sufficiency not hurtfull, ought to be no motiue why lawes should not be made or executed, which preuent that the worst disposed may not haue libertye to doe harme, or the weakest to receiue. The Chronicles (some part) the Canticles, the Apocalipse, the chapters of some Genealogyes (things wherin ignorant men haue beene euer most forward to deale) contain (in the iudg­ment of wise men) many things not so requisit for silly [Page 81] people to know, because they are not bound to giue an account of those things, & their imployment therein, doth not onely distract them, but make them vnable to know such Scriptures as are of more vse, and neare­nesse to their owne saluation. Prou. 20.3 I may say as Salo­mon doth in another case: It is modest humilitie to abstayne from these, but euerie foole will be med­ling: so that what safely peraduenture might be ad­mitted to able ministers (such as it may be you are) ought not to be a reason, either, why lawes should not be made at all, or why libertie for not vsage should bee granted to those that are able, seeing experi­ence telleth vs, that euerie man will be a Iudge to account himselfe able, and so exemptions (perhaps) reasonable from the strict obseruation of some Ca­nons granted to a few, shall become warrants for the intollerable boldnesse of others, and in the end bring a contempt to all vniformitie in order, from whence must needes follow a ruine and desolution to the go­uernment of the whole Church. And surely if men well considered eyther the generall weakenesse of many that take vpon them to expound, or the common ignorance of silly people mixt with a pron­nesse to euill, when such Scripture is read, hee must needes thinke the wisedome of our forefathers in this choyce of Scripture to be great, and esteeme the in­struction of the people to be the principall end that was propounded by them, this made the Vniuersitie of Cambridge to giue permission onely to such, to in­terpret Saint Paules Epistles, as were thought in diui­nitie fit to be admitted to the degree of Bachelers, because Saint Peter saith, that in them are many [Page 82] things hard to be vnderstood, which they (that are vn­learned and vnstable) wrest, as they doe all other Scrip­tures vnto their owne destruction, 1. Pet, 3.16. and for the Canti­cles, which euery man now vndertaketh to expound: Aquinus being requested by the example of Saint Ber­nard, to write something vpon them, he gaue this an­swere, giue me the Spirit of Saint Bernard, and I will doe it, yet our Church goeth not so farre to forbid any (that is licenced to preach) to expound these, but only for reading vnto the people, admit in their roome (with out stopping their voyces in due season) other writings euer accounted Ecclesiastical to be read, not as better, but as better seruing for reformation of manners. Yet, howsoeuer, they haue wrongfully accused our Church, in this point, we are glad to see them now so earnest in­treaters, for reading the Scriptures in the Church, see­ing heretofore, the most of them haue beene content for a Sermon of small edification, but of great length, to omit the reading of many Chapters, which might haue beene done at that time, so that, in true vnder­standing, the silencing of the Scripture, was rather to be feared at their hands, who desired to haue it indiffe­rent, and left free for to read it at all.

ANSVVER.

WE are glad to heare you confesse that the in­tention of our Church was, and is pure (and I hope euer shall be touching the dignitie of the Canon) which in my opinion ought to haue been a strong motiue both to you and others, neyther to haue dissented from the practise of the Church in rea­ding things, Whitak Pag. 37. de scriptur. ancient, profitable, and such as were cal­led by the fathers, Scripture, though not Canonicall, nor to haue quarrelled with these bookes, as if all that were in them, were thought by vs to be of an infallible & vndoubted truth: we say thē, first, cōcerning all these bookes, that neither doe wee, nor any in our Church retaine them, as Canonical truthes for doctrine, nor of equall authoritie with the other Scriptures, & yet per­aduenture we may giue some reasons, why these things misliked by you, are not of that moment, that thereby [Page 85] they ought to be accoūted of no better authority thē Hollinsheads or Eusebius Cronicles. Dani. 13. We confes that we read (by apointmēt) the Historie of Susanna to the last verse, but the last verse (which is the greatest exceptiō to the History) we read not: and the Church of Rome confesseth, Sextus Synens. Bibli. lib. 8. Her. 5. pag. 643. that it ought to belong to the beginning of the foureteenth Chapter. It is knowne that Africanus wrot to Saint Origen cōcerning the truth of this book: but what hee wrote, wee haue yet no warrant, neither can Origen or S. Hierom be iustly proued to bee aduer­saries to our opinion in this case, for hee that is most earnest against them (which was Saint Hierom) affir­meth as Doctor Whitakers collecteth, that this storie of Susanna, Vulgata & lect. passim suisse. Whitak. de Scrip. pag. 38. of Bell, and the Dragon, the Hymne of the three children was commonly read in the Church of God, which is al, for which we desire your allowāce as a thing not new or lately inuented, but auncient, war­rātable, & so practised by our Church. I could willing­ly enter into a defence of the trueth of this History, if our aduersaries of the Church of Rome were not ouer­apt to make this conclusion (which is not sound) that whatsoeuer was aunciently read in the Church, and is true, ought to bee esteemed as the Canonicall Scrip­ture; so that, they frō truth cōcluding scripture, we are forced against them, to accuse them of some faults: Whereas, if confessing them to bee no canoni­call Scriptures, they or others would haue giuen vs leaue to read thē in the Church, as profitable to man­ners, wee could (without violence) haue afforded them the reconcilement of other Scriptures, and (vndoub­tedly) haue proued them to be most true. But howso­euer, the Church of England requireth not the Sub­scription [Page 86] of you, or of any other to warrāt the falshood, and vntruth of any Iewish fable, but to approoue the forme of our Liturgy, so farre, that those books, which anciently were read in the Church, or at least, those parts which containe nothing contrary to faith, may still retaine their auncient place in the Church, for e­difying of manners, which was giuen them in the first and the purest times. In which (doubtlesse) the liber­ty of exchange, formerly left to the discretion of the minister, might haue continued stil, if men would haue tempered themselues from indiscret & causelesse neg­lect of publicke order: for, as Saint Austin well no­teth, That surely he hateth his country, who thinketh himself neuer well, except he trauell. So, little obedience or loue appeareth in those men, who account it their greatest perfection, to oppugne the Church. Now, if Luther thought Iudith and Tobith to be playes at first, and after made Stories, we must tell you, that wee are glad to heare you ascribe so much, to the thought of Luther, but sory to see you ascribe so little to the iudgement of our whole Church; and yet, it is no reason to esteeme them of lesse valew, except wee wil follow the steps of the Anabaptists, and reiect likewise the booke of Iob, seeing the Rabbins in their Talūd, haue taught them to account it as a Tragicall Comedy, and no true storie. Concerning the exception of Daniels age: answer first Bellermin and others, who hold that there were two Daniels, and then you may thinke your obiections stronger then as yet they are. It little concerneth vs to proue the Apocripha to bee true, who euer haue con­fessed that they are not Canonicall scripture, and ther­fore may be false: but howsoeuer they are, I must tell you in humility & loue, it was a bold & an vnreuerēd [Page 87] cōparison to make thē no better then Holinsheads, or Eu­sebius Chronicles, seeing their greatest enemies haue willingly cōfessed thus much: Aprocriphis qui in volumine­bibliorū haben­tur, primum post Canonicos locum tribuimus. Zanch. de Relig. cap. 1. Act. 4.5. that of all writings, that are, they haue, & ought to haue the next place of estimatiō to the Diuine Scriptures: & not only these, but all the rest tear­med by S. Cyprian E [...]clesiasticall: by S. Hierom Apocriphal: & by S. Austin Canonical, haue bin red in the Church, with the other parts of the old Testament; if not in the Apostls times, Ruff. yet euersince. If Ruffinus be not deceiued, they were approued as parts of the old Testamēt by the Apostles: for when S. Hierom writ so scornfully of the hi­story of Susanna, & the song of the three children, he chargeth him therin to haue robbed depositū sācti Spiri­tus, & instrumētū diuinū, quod Apostoli Ecclesiijs tradiderūt. & S. Hierom (who is not vsually slow to defend himself) leaueth that point vnanswered, pretending, that what he had spoken, was not as his own opiniō, but what the Iews obiected. And for his pains in trāslating the book of Iudith, Chemnisius in ex. Concil. Trident. de saer. Scrip. he giueth this reason: Quia hunc librū Synodus Nycenain numero sāctarū scripturraū legitur cōputasse. Chē ­nisius (a mā deseruing wel, of the religiō professed by our church) hauing proued against the counsel of Trent, these books (wherof we speak) not to be canonical, pro­poundeth vnto himself a question. Num quid igitur sim­pliciter abiiciendi & dānandi sunt libri isti? and he answe­reth, that we are not to cast them away, wher we thinke they haue some thing in them, which are not consonant to the Ca­nonical scriptures, but rather so to expound them, as that they may agree with them, therfore concerning the fact of Sy­meon & Leui, for which (as it seemeth) you are not wil­ling to read the book of Iudith, Iudith. 9.2, because she confesseth that GOD put a sworde into their handes to take vengeance of the straungers, blessing the zeale [Page 88] which Iacob cursed, and God plagued as a rage, wee must answere as others haue done, that the king of A­shur is called the staffe of the Lords wrath, Gen. 49.6.7.5. and his hand was the rod of the Lords indignation, Es. 10.5.6. the Lord sent him to rob, spoyle, and tread downe his people like mire in the streetes. God, therefore put a sword in his hand, and armed him, and not him onely, but as ma­ny also as were stirred vp against any country, or Nati­on, or peculiar persons, good or badde, when it plea­sed the Lord, either to chastice his children for amend­ment and tryall, or to punish the wicked to their de­struction. Now then, the Sichamites without all con­trouersie had grieuously offended, and a heauie iudge­ment of GOD (for their offences) falleth vpon them; therefore may wee say, that the Lord did arme those instruments, by whome hee did execute his vengeance against them. And Master Caluin confesseth, that Vnius puellae stuprum horribili totius vrbis strage Deus vltus est. Calu. in vers 15 Gen. 34. And Musculus saith, voluit Deus insignem hanc contumeli­am, tam graui & insigni vindict a punire, vt euidentissimo exemplo monstraret, non fore impunes omnes eos qui contu­meliam, & ignominiam Israeli inferrent, modo corde erga se integro esse perseueraret: therefore against reason and the iudgemēt of learned men in our church, you seeme to deny that God did arme Simeon, by whom he did ex­ecute his punishment. Besides, Iudith doth not com­mend that which Iocob condemneth, or curseth; for, Iacob reproueth there the fact, Gen. 34. ver. 30. Gen. 49. for that they did exceed in anger and cruelty; but Iudith commendeth the zeale which they bare vnto the Lord and his lawe, for the villany that the Sichamites had committed, and yet, as concerning the fact of Simeon and Leui, such as were [Page 89] not ignorāt of that which Iacob doth vtter in both pla­ces, are bold to affirme thus: Non est nosirum, de hoc fac­to filiorum Iacob ferre sententiam, Musculus in cap. 34. Gen. haud enim secundùm ex­ternam faciam considerandum est, quem admodum in foro Ia­diciifieri solet, sed totum relinquend [...]m Iudicio Dei, qui du­bio procul hunc illius zelum, ad sumendum de reprobis vltio­nem indidit. Of like iudgement were some long since, that liued in the church, of whom Beda saith, alij dicunt hanc vindictam, quae facta est a Simeone, & Leui, domino non displicere, quod in hoc ostenditur, quia liberati sunt de manu inimicorum suorum: Siue quod Legem dei, & cir­cumcisionem vindicauerunt, eo quod vim fecit incircumci­sus super illam quae de Circumcisione fuerat. Lyra (writing vpon the ninth of Iudith) saith thus; hoc videtur falsum, nam Iacob reprehendit illud factum tanquam malum. Gen. 34.49. Dicendum quod in facto illo duo fuerunt, scilicet ze­lus vlciscendi s [...]uprum, & illud fuit licitum & iustum, quia non habebant Iudicem, qui vellet factum punire, cuius au­thor erat [...]rinceps ciuitatis, & populus eius fautor. Et sic lo­quitur hic Iudith, Iudith com­mend. in the fact. Aliud quod fuit ibi fuit modus vlc [...]scendi, qui fuit malus & proditorius, in quantum filii Iacob fregerūt pactum habitum cum Sychamites, & sic reprehendit illud Ia­cob. All which considered, with that which many o­ther Diuines haue written in this cause, you cannot but confesse that Iacob and Iudith (in diuerse respectes) might censure the same fact in a diuers manner, Iacob condem­neth the maner, and both truly. and yet both true. The next thing which you mislike; is, that in Toby, where the Angell maketh himselfe of the trybe of Nephthaly, and in another place, one of the seauen holy Angels that offer vp the prayers of the Saints to God; Tob. [...].3. Tob. 12.45 which it pleaseth you to censure thus, perhaps with greater zeale, then either discretion, or modesty (in both a lyer [Page 90] & in the latter, a lying Vsurper vpon that office, which none, Reuel 8.3.4. Heb. 8.2. but the Angell of the Couenant may meddle with.) Iunius is the first (to my knowledge) that findeth an vntruth in the first place, but so hard a iudgement (in wisdom) might haue been well spared, considering that he cōfesseth the place to be corrupt, which might haue moued him, either to acknowledge, that by reason therof, he is ignorant of the true sence of the place, or to allow of the interpretation of the learned, before him, that haue deliuered such sence as may be admitted without allowing any vntruth. Lyra saith, It is a figura­tiue speach, like that in Tob. 6. vers. 12. Wher Azarias is interpreted adiutor Dei, & so are the Angels: Ananias is interpreted gloria Dei, whose sons are the Angels. Now, if it be an vsurping vntruth, for the Angels to of­fer vp the prayers of the Church vnto God in the me­diation of his Son, we shal (peraduenture) depriue our selues of a great part of their ministery, & dissol [...]e that communion of Saints, which we professe to beleeue as an Article of Gods truth. We doubt not, but Christ maketh intercession for vs, and offereth our prayers in another manner, more powerfull & effectuall then An­gels can Zanchie concludeth thus: Zanch. de oper. lib. 3. cap. 22. Si hos non licet inuo­care, qui nos audiunt, nostraque spectant, & nos curant, quo­modo igitur dem [...]rtuos homines? And in the same booke, he alledgeth this place (not doubting that this was a true Angell, Zanch. de o [...]er. pag. 206. & lib. 3 cap. 20. Ignorantia Iudi­cis plerumqu [...] est calamitas inno­centis. [...]st. ta [...] perfecti, [...] [...]e [...]fectia [...] [...] dolores al [...]e. [...]. to whom you giue the lye) to proue that the Angels are both sent vnto vs, & yet haue their a­boad (especially) in the presēce of God himself: so that, these bookes (being in some sort innocent) haue tasted of much euil through the ignorance of such, as haue bin their iudges. But we cannot shew our charity bet­ter, then hartily to be sory for those, who wil needs erre. [Page 91] To conclude then this point, I must intreat you in the spirit of meeknesse, to take a second view of this your vnreuerend & vncharitable cēsure, both of his Angels in heauen, & his Church on earth: for if the Angel had made the same answere, which you alledge, that he was one of the seuen Angels, that offer vp the prayers of the saints to God, he had not bin a lying Vsurper (as it pleaseth you to tearme him): for saith P. Martir: If thou read in the scrip­tures (note that he calleth them Scriptures, and in the margent quoteth this place) that the Angels offer vp our prayers, Luc. Com part. 1 cap 13. Tob. 12.15. this is not done of them to instruct or teach God, but by discouering & laying them open, we our selues be the more earnestly bent to craue the helpe of God: And what discom­modity should arise, if we affirm this selfe same thing of An­gels? Thus far P. Martir, which was taken of S. Austin: so that, you see, there was smal reason to account those bles [...]ed spirit (the Angels) Lying vsurpers, hauing spo­ken no otherwi [...]e then truth may warrant: or else to what end were that speech of our sauiour: Lib. 15. de Trin. cap. 13. Se that ye dis­pise not one of these little ones, for I say vnto you, that in hea­uen, there Angels alwaies behold the face of my fath [...]r, which is in heauen. But you cannot with a safe conscience sub­scribe to a translation that vttereth so vsurping an vntruth. Math. 18. ver. 10. I doubt not, but you haue wel considered, that it is (as you say) or else, as in the doctrine you haue wronged the Angells: so, for the translation, you will be found, for to wrong the Church. You cānot be Ignorant, that the approued translation authorised by the church of England, is that which cometh nearest to the vulgar, and is commonly called the Bishops Bible, wherein according to the Latine, the words are onely read thus. I am Raphaell, one of the seauen Angels, which stand in the presence of GOD. I confesse the Geneua translation [Page 92] readeth it as you reproue, but it was a trāslation neuer for the notes or the text, publickly authorised in our Church, so that modesty and due consideration ought to haue examined accusations of this Nature, with greater care, least others rightly iudge, that the asser­tions of such cannot be sound, that wrongfully, with­out conscience, dare aduenture to accuse both the church, on earth, and the Angels in heauen.

ANSWER.

IF you had continued in your former resolution, not to haue feared to subscribe, although some faultes were iustly to be found in the translation vsed, in our Church, you had neither opened a way to your owne wrong, hazarded for your curious disobedience, the Churches censure, nor procured our labour in defen­ding her at this time. It need not to be supposed by any, that the Church of England desireth to impose an al­lowance of any corrupt translation, neither are you, or any other, as we haue often told you, required to allow by subscription the translation, but onely to approue the forme of diuine seruice; and yet surely the care of this Church, since the light of the Gospell did shine in it, was neuer wanting to publish the scriptures, tran­slated as agreeable to the fountaines, as they could de­uise; and to this end, authoritie did commaund the al­lowance of that translation, which for their [...] [Page 94] and cost in it, is commonly cal [...]ed the Bishops Bible, from whence if you, or any man collect that, be­cause a new translation is authorised, and the pa­pistes iustly taxed by our men for adhering to the vul­gar, Iewel, Fulk whi­takers &c. that any man might correct the translations in the communion Booke, where they obscured or cros­sed the sense: we must tell you, that, first for the vul­gar translation, Ital translat. we disable not so farre, but that we are readie to confesse (whether you vnderstand the Italian, or that which goeth vnder the name of Saint Hierom) that they were vsed anciently in the Church, a thousand and three hundred yeares ago, Lib. 2. dedoct. chr. Cap. 15. in praefat In Non test. one of them (by Saint Austin) preferred before all the rest, the other highly commended by Beza, and that of the vulgar (though with Pagian and Dryedo) we thinke it were not Saint Hieroms, but mixt, yet we can be content to say as Isiodor doth of it, Lib. 6. Etimolog. cap. 7. Interpretatio eius ceteris antepo­nitur, his translation is to be preferred before others: but for all this, both you, & the Church of Rome must know, that these, neither are so pure, as the fountaines themselues (for no translation (whatsoeuer) is Authen­ticall Scripture) and that from hence, In praefat. in I [...]s. Tot esse apud la­tinos exemplaria quo [...] codices, cum quisque pro suo arb [...]irio vel ad­diderit, vel sub­traxerit quod ei videretur: Eccle­sia falli potest in locorum quorun­dam versione, vt interim non desi­nit esse vera Ec­clesia. Whitak cont. 1. de script. quest. 2. [...]ap. 7. euerie priuate man must not take libertie vnto himselfe, to correct and amend at his owne pleasure, least wee haue iust occasion to complaine, as Saint Hierome doth, that there be as many varieties of translations, as there be bookes, whilest euerie man (according to his fan­cie) addeth or detracteth as seemeth good to himselfe. Neyther can an error in translating, in any Church, be an argument sufficient to proue it to be no Church. And concerning the Church of England, it hath not wanted a care, and a religious care in this point, and therefore it were no reason for you, or any to reproue [Page 95] her, for that wherein she deserueth prayse, onely your patience is required, to forbeare all priuate corrections of translations, vntil authority from the diligent labors of learned men (wholly imployed in that busines) may establish a better & yet the faults in this, are not such, but they may be tollerated without offence, though (peraduēture) corrected with more benefit. And seeing there is no error in faith, contrarie to the doctrine of the Church, that can be in pretence confirmed, by any reading, which we allow, me thinks the article of sub­scription may wel say, that the book of common pray­er containeth nothing in it contrarie to the word of God, and that it may lawfully be so vsed. But say you, if Austin (whom I call Saint Austin) vpon the credit of many Latin copies, would not admit one word ( palam) where the sense rather required, thē receiued it, because it was not in the Greeke, how shal I approue vnder my hand, a translation which hath many omissions, &c. If your moderation had beene like vnto Saint Austins in this case, we should haue little cause to mislike your do­ing, and yet the example, which you bring for your best warrant, being stretched so far, as you do, cannot iustly be reckond amōgst S. Austins vertues. For in that place which you alledge, he saith: Multa latina exemplaria sic habent (et pater tuus quividet in absconso, reddet tibi palam,) sed quia in Graecis quae priora sunt, non inuenimus (pa­lam) non putauimus huic aliquid disserendum esse. Now, I see not, what can be directly gathered from S. Au­stins example, for ( palā) was not in some Greek copies, but I hope you know what [...] is, which some­times they trāslate in propatulo, somtimes palam, & if the old Latin translation want it, & the Greek haue it (as [Page 96] Doctor Whitakers noteth) Iudge whether you ought to imitate Saint Austin in this, De script. cont. 1. quest. 2 cap. 12 whom the Rhemistes fol­low, rather then the original which is followed by our Church, and therefore the blemishes in our transla­tion, which your zeale hath published, of omission, ad­dition, obscuritie, Ostendere hoc non pet [...]s quia iugeniū d [...]est, sed quia bona causa. Aust cont [...]e [...]il. lib. 2. cap. 98. peruerting as senselesse, contrary, and such like; we are willing to answer them, when we come to your obiections in the last page, whch wee know you cannot proue, not that you want wit, but because you are not assisted with a good cause.

ANSVVER.

WE cannot but wish that the holy pretenders of zeale had so much discretion, that those things were iustly blameable, for which they are so willing to forsake the executiō of their deuine function, & so boldly without consciēce to transgresse the lawful ordinatiōs of a reli­gious King, whose cōmaundements, eyther to limit to their owne fancies, or to censure after those opinions, which they apprehēd to be vertuous & iust, were both to cōmit an act neuer warrantable in any age, and to v­surp vpon that throne, which they must not touch; all men that liue in the bosome of a Church, whose peace to thē ought to be dearer then 1000. liues, are to be ca­ried with that charity towards the doctrine & lawes, which it publikly professeth, or wherwith it is well go­uerned, that all indeuors of reconcilement, are to be bē ­ded to this scope, to make it seeme both to teach & to go­uern like the Church of Christ; for there is nothing of that euidēce in the word of god, nor euer was of that vse in the family of Gods house, which oppositiō vnbridled could not peruert, or vnhallowed boldnes misconster; there is nothing left vpō earth to the Church of grea­ter vse, then the Sacramēts; whose chiefest force, & ver­tue cōsisteth in this, that they are heauēly ceremonies, which God hath sāctified & ordained to be administred in his Church: first, as marks to know when God doth impart his vitall or sauing grace of Christ, Hook. lib. 9. pag. 126. vnto all that are capable therof: & secondly as means conditionall, which God requireth in thē, vnto whom he imparteth grace: for (as elswhere we haue noted) It must needs be a great vnthankfulnes, In the defence of master Hoo­ker. pag. 95. & easily breed contēpt, to ascribe only, that power to thē to be but as seales, and that they teach but the mind by other senses, as the word doth by hearing, which if it were al, what reasō hath the Church [Page 101] to bestow any Sacramēt vpō infants, who as yet for their years, are not capable of any instructiō: ther is therfore, of Sacramēts (vndoutedly) some more excellent & hea­uenly vse. Sacramēts (by reason of their mixt nature) are more diuersly interpreted, & disputed of, thē any other part of religiō besides, for that in so great store of pro­perties, belōging to the self same thing, as euery mans wit hath takē hold of some especial consideratiō, aboue the rest▪ so they haue accordingly giuē their censure of the vse & necessity of thē, for if respect be had to the du­ty which euery cōmunicant doth vndertake, we may cal thē truly bonds of our obedience to God, strict obliga­tions to the mutual exercise of christiā charity, prouo­catiōs to godlines, preseruations from Sin, memorials of the principall benefits of Christ. If we respect the time of their institution, they are annexed for euer vnto the new Testament, as other rites were before to the old: If we regard the weaknes that is in vs, they are warrāts for the more security of our beleefe: If we compare the re­ceiuers with those that receiue thē not, they are works of destinction to separate Gods own from strangers: & in those, that receiue thē as they ought, they are tokens of Gods gracious presence, wherby men are taught to know what they cannot see: for Christ & his holy spirit with all their blessed ef­fectes (though entring into the soule of man, we are not able to apprehend or expresse how) do notwith­standing giue notice of the times, when they vse to make their accesse, because it pleaseth Almighty God to cōmunicate (by sēsible means) those blessings which are incōprehensible; seeing therfore that grace is a cō ­sequent of Sacramēts; a thing which accōpanieth thē as their end: a benefit, which he that hath, receiueth from God himself, the author of Sacramēts, & not frō any other naturall or supernaturall quality in them. It [Page 102] may be hardly both vnderstood, that Sacraments are necessary, and that the manner of their necessitie to life supernaturall, is not in all respects, as meat, drink, and such like, vnto naturall life: because they containe in themselues no vitall force or efficacy, but they are duties of seruice and worship which vnlesse we per­forme, as the author of grace requireth, they are vnpro­fitable: For all receiue not the grace of God, which receiue the Sacraments of his grace, neither is it (ordi­narily) his wil, to bestow the grace of sacraments vpon any, but by the Sacraments: which grace also, they that receiue by Sacraments, Non enim ist▪ tribuunt quod per ipsa [...] Hugo de sacr. cap. 3. or with Sacraments, receiue it from him, and not from them: for (as Hugo saith) These do not giue, that which is giuen by these, and yet ordi­narily (as necessary) to receiue these, as those graces are necessary, which we receiue by these: so that, Baptisme, though it be not a cause of grace, yet the grace which is giuen by Baptisme, doth so farre depend vpon the very outward Sacrament, as that God will haue it im­braced, as a necessary means, whereby, we receiue the same: and howsoeuer we dare not iudge those, that in in some cases do want it, for the want of it, yet we may boldly gather, that he, whose mercy now vouchsafeth to bestow the means, hath also long since intended vs that, wherunto they lead: so that, we think in this discourse of yours concerning priuate, & the necessity of baptisme, that some things are misunderstood, some things mis­construed and some things false: misunderstood, where you make this to be the opinion of our Church, that all, who are Baptised, must necessarily be saued, or of the contrary: whereas, it is but vnderstood, as, eyther man hath euidence left to direct his iudgement, or the Church hath power, to admit into the house of [Page 103] GOD. And for others, who want this Sacrament, although wee cannot Iudge of the secret election of God, yet we haue reason to feare a denyall of that Grace, Hook. li. 5. where we see a manifestation of the want of the meanes, appointed for the obtaining of it: for (doubtlesse) as one noteth, the sacrament of Baptisme in respect of God, the author of the institution, may admit dispensation, but in regard of vs, who are tyed to obey, there is an absolute necessitie: for it is in the power of God, without these to saue, but it is not in the power of man, without these to come to saluation. And yet our Church holdeth constantly, and truely (notwithstanding your doubts) as well touching other beleeuers, as Martyrs, that Baptisme taken away by ne [...]necessity, taketh not away the necessity of Baptisme; but is supplyed by the desire thereof. For, as the visible signe may be without true holinesse; so, the inuisible sanctification (saith S Austin) may sometimes be with­out the visible signe, Lib. 3. Quest. vel Test. cap. 84. Canon. 69. and yet these are no reasons, either to debarre the Church from imposing priuate Bap­tisme, vpon great peril, from this necessitie: or to con­clude out of this care, that the Church declyneth to a necessitie, ouer rigorous, and such as formerly was op­pugned in our Church.

2 Misconstrued the speech of the most reuerend fa­ther, the now Lord Archbishoppe of Canterbury, who (as you say) made no exception of Gods eternall pur­pose. D. Barlow Deane of Chester. Confer pag. 16. It cannot bee ignorance, but want of charity, which maketh you to misconster him thus, seeing e­uen from that learned Deane, who penned the whole conference, you might haue collected what manner of necessitie, was vrged by him, his words are these: which word (Necessity) he so pressed not, as if God without Bap­tisme [Page 104] could not saue the childe; but the case put, that the state of the Infāt dying vnbaptized, being vncertain, & to God only knowne: but if it dy baptised, there is an euident assurāce, that it is saued. What could be more religious & agree­able to the doctrin of truth, or more necessary in these presūptuous times, wherin a Sacrament of so absolute necessity (by practise of some) is growen into such con­tempt: which necessity, if at any time wee haue denyed (dealing with those of the church of Rome), It is because ouerstrictly they bind ( frō the act done) grace to the Sa­craments, as if none that receiue them, could want it, or none receiue that grace that do want them. Ioh. 3.6. Read our desēce of master Hoo­ker. pag. 110.

3 False; that the plac [...] of S. Iohn, is not vnderstood of the Sacramēt of Baptisme, which you seeking to shun, least you shold magnify Baptisme ouermuch, ought to take heed, least you run into the contēpt therof: the one be­ing that, wherūto al mē are inclined, & the other brin­ging lesse hurt to the church, by a necessity ouer abso­lute, which serueth but to make al men carefull, not to neglect a thing of such institutiō, & so great vse, whilst a fear to establish an absolute necessity, bredeth (by de­grees) a contēpt of that, which is the only ordinary way into the church of Christ in heauē, & the only way in­to the church vpō earth. And because the Iews had ma­ny rites, which in a larger acceptatiō, were called Sacra­mēts, but in a strict acceptation (as we) only two: to di­stinguish betwixt these & the other, it is added (not without cause) to the catechisme; that there be two sacra­mēts, as generally necessary to saluatiō: noting, that ours (succeeding two of theirs, Circūcision & the Passouer) retain a necessity as theirs, more & aboue the rest: so that, the in­tētion of our church, being neither differing frō it self, nor frō the doctrin of truth, in this point, you need nei­ther [Page 105] feare by subscription to giue your allowance, nor doubt least your subscriptiō might iustly be pleaded to a bad sence. Exceptions cō ­cerning inter­rogatories in Baptisme. SECT. 8.

ANSVVER.

IT seemeth, there is a curious desire of reprehension in those men, who are willing to reproue the practise of their owne Church, for that which is a custome an­cient, necessarie, and of much vse: wherein wee repre­hend not alone the disposition of such, but wee are ready to let the world see, that the things themselues are most innocent, which they doe reproue. Most of them are not yet come so farre, as to deny Baptisme to Infants (an arrour which may follow from their former opinions, if they suffer Scisme to growe in them, and humours to bee rules for conscience but they are rea­dy to professe, that there is no saith in the childe required to Baptisme, and that to bee borne of faith­full Parents, is as much for their admission into the Church, as the profession of the faith, which they make by the mouthes of others. This, as it is vnthank­full to spurne at the indulgence of the Church; so, it is a contempt of duety, which God requireth on our part: there is no attainment to life, but through the onely begotten sonne of God, nor by him otherwise, then being such for beleefe as wee ought: as if those Articles in the iudgement of God, were set downe for all men: first, to subscribe vnto whom, by Baptisme, [Page 107] the church receiueth into Christs schoole; and seeing no religion inioyeth sacraments, the signes of Gods loue, vnlesse it haue also that faith whereupon sacra­mēts are built, could there (as one well noteth) (which I am sory you obserued not before you stumbled at these doubts) be any thing more conuenient, Hooker lib. 5. Page 152. then that our first admittance to the actuall receipt of his grace in the sacrament of Baptisme, should be consecrated with profession of beleefe, which is to the kingdome of God as a key, the want whereof excludeth Infidels both from that, and from all other sauing grace; And howsoeuer we say with S. Austin that Infants haue not a present Actuall habit of faith yet they haue then the foundation of that wherupon afterward they build, the first ground whereof was laid by the sacrament of Baptisme; so that without any madd presumption (as you tearme it) we may say truly of infants, that they are then beleeuers, because in Baptisme they begin to be, which continuance of time doth afterwarde make perfect. For if we call them beleeuers for their out­ward profession sake who are much further from faith then infants, why may we not without madnes or pre­sumption, account infants to haue faith which haue that grace giuen them, Quem potue­runt illi nosse nec habere, isti potuerunt habere ante­quam nosse▪ Aust. which is the first and most effectual cause, out of which our beleeue groweth: and whilest others that know him beleeue not in him, these beleue in him before they know him. Now seeing then that Baptisme implyeth as Circumcision a couenant be­twixt God and his people, it is to be thought that as God in that sacrament bestoweth remission of sins & the holy Ghost, binding himself as it were to bestow all other graces requisite in time to come; so euery in­fant receiuing the same sacrament at the hands of god [Page 108] tyeth himselfe likewise for euer, to doe and beleeue what the Lord commaundeth. Now, who is there (considering this contract) that can blame either the interrogatories, or the suretyes which vndertake in this stipulation, seeing the thing is required, nay, inioyned with such necessity for the Church, to exclude infants, because they cannot by their owne tongues contract, were ouer rigorous: and not to take securitie at all, for those who cannot answere for themselues were to bee to carelesse; for the profession of faith, beeing ne­cessarie to a publike admittance into the house of God, what cause is there why suretyes may not law­fully doe it, seeing they know they are the children of fathfull Parents, and so consequently partakers of the promise, and that they are such as would make the same profession themselues, if they were of yeares, or that the Church should not require it, euen to put men in minde vpon what condition they admit them into the Church, and to manifest a reason, why they refuse others: so that for any thing I see alledged a­gainst it, as faith and repentance are necessarie to make the Sacraments effectuall, so this faith in this case is lawfully professed by the sureties, and effectuall for the infant, whome to accept into the Church without this, were to wrong the Sacrament, and not to receiue with this, were to wrong those infants, to whom the couenant belongeth by an euerlasting promise. Gen. 1 [...]

Answere.

It litle auaileth in the consideration of wise men, ei­ther to publish our owne former true opinions which afterward we indeuour to disproue, or to afford iust excuses for the lawfull practise of that church, with which notwithstanding we are not willing to consent; It being either decept in vs to allowe what in consci­ence we think not to be good, or an vnexcusable weak­nes not to consent vnto that which we doe allow; In this respect of the practise of sundry men (who are willing to seeme and peraduenture in truth are vertu­ous) the church of England may iustly complaine as Saint Hierom doth ab, Hieronimus Epist. 133. aemulis nos frustra Lacerari, qui malunt videri contemnere praeclara quam discere: doubt­lesse the number is great (and yet a number deseruedly not of any great account) which will rather seeme to contemne, Maximum iu­dicium ma [...]oe mentis fluctua­tio. Senec. then to learne wholesome things. Morall wise men haue thought wauering to be the greatest signe of an euill minde. For wisedome cannot better appeare, then euer to will and to nill the same things; this being as one noteth the foundation of that truth, that the same thing cannot euer please, Non potest idem placere nisi rectum. Sen. if it be not iust. Let those thē that bee wise consider of your speach. You first for a long time held these Ceremonies not to bee lawfull (we take you first from the beginning of your resolu­tion in matters diuine) then after that lawfull; now vpon the third change vnlawfull, and paraduenture heareafter we shall haue better hope; I can in all hu­militie and charitie grant vnto you the same fauour, which vppon such inconstancie I would desire to bee granted to my selfe in the like case: but surely wise men not so easily mooued with the same passions that wee are, doe well discerne that it is not safe in matters of [Page 111] this nature, to relye vpon their fancies at all, whose opinions in things for which they contend with so much earnestnes, are continually subiect to so much change; reason euer by collection concluding thus, that whasoeuer hath bene may be, and those who haue thrise changed are not at all times when they seeme so guided by the truth which is euer the same, but rather may feare the imputation of a double minde, Iames 1.8. which as S. Iames faith, is vnstable in all his wayes. Yet notwith­standing, wee are willing and desirous to heare from you such speaches, as are arguments of that loue and obedience which all men ought to beare vnto that Church wherein they liue: we are content to allowe (although you haue not fully expressed the intention of the Church of England in this point) That to signe the Infant with the signe of the Crosse, was to signe him with an ancient token of Christian profession: that it is not a signe from God to men, nor of men to God, (and therefore no ido­latrous worship invented in our Church) but of men to men (as the Ring in marriage) no part of the Sacrament, no con­secrating or operatiue signe, no Symbolicall or sacramentall signe not so much as explicatory but a simple significatiue rite expres to the Cōgregations hope & expectation of that child; which no mā can doubt to be the vertuous & religious intention of our Church: both because (as you confes) It is after Baptisme, 2. It is saide, wee. 3. It is omitted in priuate Baptisme. 4. And lastly the signe is omitted in the Lords Supper, as not giuing either vertue to the Sacrament or holinesse to the action, which were (in these latter times) vnsufferable errors, superstitious­ly brought in by the Church of Rome: wherein all in­different men may see the moderation of our church, which hauing left the ordinary vse of the Crosse, in al [Page 112] actions at all times, (for which the practise of antiqui­tie might haue beene some warrant) haue onely admit­ted the same in Baptisme, as then chiefly requisite for a signification of that profession, which at that time the Infant vndertooke, and therein ment to continue for euer after. In this sence (which is the warrantable intention of our Church) if you haue held it lawfull heretofore, and now doe not, wee may say as S. Paule to the Galathians; Gal. 5.7 Ye did run well, who hath hindred you, that you did not obey the trueth? but wee will not cen­sure you, but rather hope better things of you, desiring all men to remember the Apostles peremptorie con­clusion; If any man teach otherwise & consenteth not to the wholsom words of the Lord Iesus Christ, & to the Doctrine which is according to godlinesse, 1. Tim. 6.3.4 he is puft vp and knoweth nothing, but doteth about questions & strife of words, wher­of commeth enuie, strife, railings, euill surmises, froward disputations of men of corrupt mindes, and destitute of the truth, which thinke that gaine is godlinesse.

ANSVVERE.

FRom dislikes seeming as grieuous in shewe, & for a long time as vehemētly persued by a great number, we are now come at the last to that one point (the Crosse in Baptisme) wherein alone both antiquitie is thought to be too superstitious, and this present age, for following the same example, vnexcusable of a dan­gerous & vnsufferable idolatrie: but as the Church [Page 114] of England, hitherto hath not found it sa [...]e to follow the reformation of those men, who know no other means to purifie Churches, but to pull them downe; so in this shee esteemeth it safer and more vertuous, to free the signe of the Crosse from the staines of superstiti­ons, contracted in these later and corrupted times, ra­ther then altogether to reiect the more auncient and purer vse thereof, as men ashamed of that which was. Saint Pauls reioycing at the Crosse of Christ. Galat. 6, 14 Wee are not desirous in things of this nature, to satifie the Reader with empty words, b [...]. as farre as wee are able in truth, to let all men see, that both the Church hath reason to exact an obedience to that which it doeth lawfully command, and that their curiositie is with­out excuse, who either of singularitie or ignorance, seeme to pretend holy reasons to warrant them, in that which they doe refuse: and surely it must needes bee thought, an vnthankefull and ouer-bold accusation of those men, who dare aduenture to accuse a whole Church, a sincere and religious Church, a Church wherin they haue bin borne, nourished & brought vp; whose true doctrine hath bin the foundation of their-iudgements, if they haue any, rather then they will be thought to like others or in what things they refuse obedience to her Lawes, not to be warranted by Gods word, as the vnstained actions of a sanctified, groun­ded, & pure zeale: as if the Church of England, which in the true opinion of the world is more setled, more reformed, more vertuous, vnder the gouerment of so sincere and so religious a prince, had by an vniuersall consent conspired as it were to increase Idolatrie, and established constitutions for the vniust recalling of the iustly banished superstions of the Romish Church, [Page 115] and therfore obseruing duely the 30. Canon made of pur­pose to explaine the lawfull vse of the crosse, to which we are now tyed as to the Iudgement of the church, Can. 140. you do not see how you can possibly subscribe vnto it as before you did. We desire all that are indifferent to viewe the reasons and vses contained in that Canon, and we doubt not but it will appeare that their motiues were sufficient to ra­tifie the vse of the Crosse in the intention of our Church, and to free that learned and religious assem­bly from the imputation, you lay vpon them, by com­paring it to the Counsell of ARMINE; First, Iewish and heathenish blasphemie derided our fathers in the christian faith, for preaching & beleeuing in him, who was crucified vpon the crosse, by which all vertuous and pure both men and times were so farre from being discouraged in their profession, by the ignominie of the crosse, as that thereby they rather reioyced and try­umphed in it, yea, the holy Ghost so farre honored the dispised name of the crosse amongst the Iewes, that vnder it, was contained all the suffering, the merits, the fruites, and the comforts of Christs death. From hence proceedeth a reuerend vse and estimation of the signe of the crosse, in the Apostles time, signing hereby not onely themselues when they met with the Iewes, but their children which were baptised, to dedicate them by badge, as it were to his seruice, whose benefits be­stowed vpon them, were contained vnder that name, and procured vnto man by Christs death vpon the crosse. But time corrupting often with staines of su­perstition the best things (for if Christ tell Peter, If I wash thee not, Ioh, 13, 8, 9. thou shalt haue no part with mee; Peter will answere, Lord not my feete only, but my hands and my head) so apt are we to ouerdoe that which wee finde to bee pro­fitable [Page 116] vnto vs) The signe of the crosse in the more ignorant times of the church that followed after, became so loaden with a continuall and necessarie obseruation, full of superstitious Idolatry, as if it had beene for all occasions, a compleate armour to euery Christian, and that nothing could bee well, either begun, conti­nued, or ended, that was not first hallowed with this signe. From which ignorant opinion, blemishing a thing of vertuous and good vse, the Church of Eng­land desiring to free the signe of the Crosse, doth not commaund or allow the publick vse at any other time but in Baptisme, and that first, as no part of the sub­stance of that Sacrament, adding any thing to the ver­tue or perfection of Baptisme. Secondly, nor as a meanes of admitting of any into Christs flock, but as a lawfull outward ceremony, and honorable badge, whereby the Infant is dedicated to the seruice of him that dyed vpon the crosse. In respect whereof, the very name hath and shall bee honorable amongst all true christians to the worlds end: and therefore your com­parison, of those in the conuocation for making of this Canon, to them in the councell of ARMINE might haue beene well spared, seeing the perticulers of both beeing duely waighed, wise men may easily perceiue the beginnings, the proceedings, and the conclusion to bee farre vnlike: and therfore I must tel you, though not with so much seuerity as the cause deserueth, you could not with all your studie, haue found out a com­parison more vnbefitting this cause, & more presump­tuously iniurious to the King and the whole Church; which, that the reader may better vnderstand, wee will briefly set downe as others haue done, from the begining to the, end the proceeding of that councell. After [Page 117] CONSTANTINES death, whose wisdom supprest the greatest heresy, & whose vertue taught the whole world religion; CONSTANTIVS his sonne raigned, one ra­ther seeming not so euill as hee was, then beeing in trueth, so vertuous as hee seemed, whom to haue set­led in a right opinion in his Fathers time, had beene a duety of good seruice toward God, a meane of peace and quietnesse to the church of Christ, a labour easie, and peraduenture, as pleasing as the suggestion of those, who were the vnnaturall corruptions of a well disposed sonne, of so vertuous a father. CONSTANTI­VS, by the perswasion of the ARRIANS, deuised to as­semble all the Bishops of the whole world, about their great controuersie; but in two seue [...]all places: the Bishops of the West at ARIMINA in Italy; the Eastern at SELVCIA the same time; amongst them of the East there was no stoppe, they agreed without any great a­doe, gaue their sentence against heresie, excommu­nicated some cheefe maintainers thereof, and sent the Emperour word what was done: whom doubtlesse it much offended not, that an heresie of that nature could not from the authoritie of wisdome obtaine strength, which it is like had not beene so much fauoured by him, if hee had not esteemed the daunger in the word to bee little, whilest their meaning, as they pretended in sence, was all one; but I lay the grea­test part of the blame for this euill vpon AELIV [...] LEONTIVS Bishoppe of ANTIOCH, that fauoured the ARRIANS (for mildnesse and yeelding in some Bi­shops made the whole church bee troubled with that herisy) who scratching his head, white for age, said whē this snow is melted there will bee much durt; Sozo [...]. lib. 3 cap. 19. as if the bishops which were to succed him, would not suffer the [Page 118] same Hymnes (it is like of gloria patri) agreeable to the Nycen councel which he did, they had at Armine foure hundred which held the trueth, scarce of the aduerse part foure score.

But these obstinate, and the other wearie of conten­ding with them thereupon, by both it was resolued to send to the Emperour, such as might informe him of the cause, and declare what hindered their peaceable agreemēt; Ex parte nostra leguntur homi­nes adolescētes, parum docti & parum cauti [...]ab Arrianis autem miss [...]senes cal­lidi & ingen [...]o valentes veterno perfidiae imbuti, qui apud regem facile superiores extiterant, Sulp lib, 2, Sozom. lib, 3, cap, 18, Ruffin, lib, 10, cap, 2, Hiero, iu dialo, contr. Lucifer. there are chosen on the Catholick side such men as had in them nothing to be noted but boldnesse; neither grauitie, nor learning▪ nor wisdome. The Ar­rians for the credit of their faction, take the eldest, the best experienced, the most warie, and the longest pra­ctised Veterans they had amongst them: the Emperour coniecturing of the rest on either part, by the quality of them whom he saw, sent them speedily away, and with them a certaine confession of faith ambiguously and subtilly drawne by the Arrians, whereunto vnlesse they all subscribed, they should in no case bee suffered to depart from the place where they were; where­by many vexed with hunger, and violent detention, yeelded vp their conscience as captiue to those penal­ties that were vrged vpon them: yet as it seemeth by some others, what error soeuer was concluded in that councell, was rather from the obscurity of the Greek word, then from any penaltyes: of which Saint Hierom saith thus; Ingemuit totus orbis & se Arrianū esse miratus est. Now, what can there be in the late graue and re­uerend conuocation of the clergie of England answe­rable to this councell? First, for any thing that I know there was amongst them no faction▪ Secondly, they dealt not deceitfully with the king to obtaine an allow­ance of what they concluded. Thirdly, no mn was vr­ged [Page 119] by compulsion, or detained vpon penalties to giue his consent; onely in this one thing, peraduenture not vnlike, that the councell of Nyce had on her side foure hundred, whereas the Arrians (these inuentors of new opinions) had not foure score: besides I doubt not, but what was practised with the Emperour in this coun­cel, the contrarie was done with the King at the con­uocation, and so consequently you haue little rea­son to thinke that they were vsed as the good fathers at the councell of Armine, for all men see that such as the Catholicks made choyce of as Embassadors for their part, to the Emperour at that time, such the Scis­maticks selected as solicitours of their cause, and fol­lowers of those petitiōs which were deliuered vp: some in whome nothing was to be noted, but boldnesse, nei­ther grauitie, nor learning nor wisdome. Which if you confesse, and thereby would conclude your selues to haue the trueth, but to haue also the same euill choyce of Agents, as the catholickes at that time; we say this were to wrap his sacred Maiestie in the ouersight of Constantine, and for excusing of your selues, to lay an iniurious imputation vpon one of the grauest, the most religious, the most learned and vertuous conuocations that euer were assēbled in this church: wrong not your pretended sincerity & zeale ouer much in your vncha­ritable & vncomly cēsuring of that meeting frō which wee doubt not but holinesse and piety shall receiue strength and comfort, Signum domi­ni [...]m. Insigne Regni▪ Sym­bolum patien­nae, humilitatis, mortis Christi triumphi. Bucer. in censu. cap. 11. and the church very shortly shal be blessed with a consent and happie peace, striue not against the retaining of that which the auncientest fathers so much commend, called it the Lords sygne, the badge of Christs Kingdome, the note of patience, of humility, of the death of Christ, of his tryumph, from [Page 120] these beginnings men may not ignorantly proceede to become in the end direct enemies to the cros of Christ, this made master BVCER modestly to speake concer­ning the retaining of the sygne of the crosse in Bap­tisme in our church; Signum hoc non tam quod est vsus in Ecclesia antiquissimi, quam quod est admodum simplex, & presentis admonitionis crucis Christi, adhiberi nec indecens, nec in vtile existimo, Bucer in cer [...]. cap. 11, si adhiheatur, modo pure intellectum & religiose excipiatur, nulla nec superstitione adiuncta, nec elementi seruitute aut vulgari consuetudine: all which considerations are and haue beene obserued in our church, and therefore I cannot but maruell how you should compare it to Reuben ascending to his fathers bed, the one being an agent of much euill, for which hee lost his beauty, the other onely an innocent suffe­rance of some euill, by which, if any blemish were contracted to a thing faire, for you say, ( Thou wast faire) It is more fit the spots to bee put to an euerlasting ba­nishment: and therefore discretion would haue for­borne those speaches, which follow, seeing wee must tell all the world, which often by others hath beene proued alreadie, That the Crosse in Baptisme as it is vsed in the Church of England was neuer either a spirituall harlot heretofore, or a band now, and consequently his vse no way forbidden by the first table, which will better per­aduenture appeare in that which followeth.

ANSVVERE

WHere men are willing to dissent from the an­cient lawfull practise of their owne church, either because they are desirous to bee like others, or because they cannot long indure to be like themselues, It is strange with what care they are subtilly cunning, to [...]inde out probable excuses wherby they may seeme to the common capacitie of man, for to erre with rea­son. If when wee admit into the church the Infant by Baptisme, wee than also signe him with the crosse, in token of that warfare which hee promiseth to vnder­take: shall wee therefore conceiue that either the Sa­crament is impeacht of insufficiencie in that point, or that this addition is idle and superfluous? It is ouer much confidence and rigour to conclude thus; wee de­rogate nothing from the sacrament of Baptisme, when wee call the crosse a token of our warfare for Christ. For there may bee many signes of one and the same thing, though notal alike excellēt. Baptisme is a Sacra­ment ordained of God, and a seale of his promise, tea­ching vs also that we are Christs soldiers & must fight vnder him, choosing a ceremony ordain'd by the church in the purest times, in signe and token also of the same warfare, and as it was not superfluous in the Lawe to declare one thing by many signes, as namely, mans vncleannesse by circumcision, purifying &c. So it must not bee accounted needlesse vnder the Gospell to [Page 122] make that plaine by words or signes, that at the first cannot so easily be vnderstood. Saint Austin saith that the whole action of our Redemption, is signified vnto vs by the day of the natiuity of Christ yearely celebra­ted, and also by the Sacrament of the supper, but after a diuerse sort: Aust. Epist. 190. ad lanuarium. for the day of the Natiuitie is onely a memoriall thereof, the other a Sacrament. The same may be said of crossing in Baptisme, and of baptisme it selfe; the one is a more externall & accidentall signe the other a substantiall Sacrament, Act 15.28, 1. Cor. 14, 26. Gal. 4, 9 neither is this signe in the numbe [...] of those vnnecessary things which are a burden, or not to edifying, or one of those beggerly rudiments which bring vs into bondage againe; or one of those which Popery drained from anti­quity and all reformed churches haue cast out: but a signe for vse of great antiquitie in the Sacrament of baptisme: now things that are significant are not all equally significant, for a sacrament saith Saint Austine, is when there is such a remembrance of the thing done, that there is also something signyfied which is holily to be receiued, Sacramentum est autem cum reigestae ita re­memoratio fit, vt aliqnid etiam significari intel­ligatur. Aug. so that howsoeuer ma­ny ceremonies are retained in the church significant for those ends, furtherances of piety whereunto they serue, yet we neither do, nor dare account them signi­ficant as the sacraments, which represent christ, and are rather to be receiued then done, the other rather to be done then to be receiued by vs. If this signe then of the crosse haue not beene drained from Popery, as you imagine, but of ancient and publike vse in Tertulli­ans time, who liued within lesse than a hundred yeares after Saint Iohn; If Bucer in his censure of our Lyturgy, P. Martyre, Hemingius, Beza, and diuerse others of the reformed Churches (as shall appeare hereafter) ac­count [Page 193] it to bee lawfull as it is vsed and retained in this Church; we cannot but tel you and the whole world, that the curiositie of some few, is no iust preiudice to antiquitie: nor these sleight occasions either warrant to your conscience for disobedience, or in the opinion of wise men, any great imputation to our Church.

ANSVVERE.

THere is no plea we so willingly heare, as that which striueth for the sincerity of Gods worship, for that being mans duety and happinesse, yet because easily corrupted, least of all permitted to mans liberty (God hauing prescribed an exact forme how hee will be ho­nored) wee ought all of vs, both to search out and to further those holy obseruations, which are free from superstition, & do serue vnto this end. To dedicate the infant by this signe to Christ, is to make this signe say you a meanes whereby Christ is worshipped, and so will-worshippe is raised repugnant to the word of GOD, a thing surely not fit either to bee commanded or performed by any that are vertuous in our Church.

It seemeth that in this more then ordinary curiosi­ty of zeale, you haue neither rightly waighed what it is to dedicate in that sense which the Church taketh it, nor how many, and of what nature are the parts of ex­ternall diuine worship. For euery action referred to God (of which kinde pearaduenture this is not) to set out a­ny part of our deuotion and duety to him, is not of necessity worship; for as in Baptisme wee are incor­porat into the death of christ, which was ignominious vpon the crosse: so by this signe we doe externally te­stifie to the world, that we haue cōmended our selues (for it doth not please you to say dedicated) vnto his ser­uice, of whose death, merit, and profession we are not, nor euer purpose to bee ashamed; all which wee testi­fie by signing this signe in the seat of shame, without a­ny proportion or resemblance with diuine worship. Only we acknowledge (as D. Whitakers noteth) that this is an anciēt ceremony from the first beginning almost of Religion, Whit. contra. Quest. 6 and the christian church; the reason wher­of, [Page 125] as hee noteth was this; Vt Christiani qui tum in­ter Ethnicos viuebant qui a fide alienissimi essent, sese omni ratione Christianos esse declararent, atque testa­rentur publice, That christians, who then liued a­mongst the Heathen, and such as were aliens from the faith, might publickly restifie and declare themselues that they were christians.

For with this signe (by reason of the contempt of the crosse which all others had) the christians were accustomed to marke and signe themselues, as with the ensigne of their owne profession; which be­ing the custome of those times (as Doctor Whitakers noteth) and no more then is performed at this day, wee cannot but wonder at the cauelling of such as make it any part of Diuine worshippe, and at the peeuishnesse of those who from hence would con­clude a will-worship inuented from humane reason.

All men may knowe that there was vnto the Iewes, and so is and shall bee in all Churches vntill the end of the world, besides the Sacraments in the exter­nall worshippe sacrifices, oblations, and such like, which are not the inuentions of men, but traditi­ons of the church which (in matters of this nature) hath authority to appoint daies, places, and things furtherances and parts, though not of the immedi­ate, yet in a large phrase, of the externall worshippe of God▪ of which external worship, some parts belong to obedience, doing and fulfilling the morall pre­cepts, some other to the obseruation of outward ceremonies, and yet euen these are not all of one nature, nor of equall nearnes to the principall parts of the outward worshippe: for the cere­moniall worshippe, which hath and shall bee in the [Page 122] Church in all ages, consisting in things and actions, is thus distinguished: into those wherein the worshippe consisteth, & into those which are annexed to it. These amongst the Iewes were Temples, Altars, Persons, Garments, Vessels, Times and such like, but with vs (as one noteth) they are for number fewer, Zanch, in Deca. pag. 41 [...]. for signifi­cation more famous, for vertue more excellent, for [...] obseruation more easie. Numero pauci­ora, significat [...]one Aug. [...]o [...]a v [...]rtute [...]rae [...]ātiora & obseruatu ta­ciliora, Aust. Zanch. And howsoeuer wee can bee content, to say and thinke, that it is not lawfull to wor­shippe God with any other externall and ceremoniall worshippe then is warranted in his word, by his owne allowance: yet if any thing bee varied, which is not commaunded of God, or added, not as essentiall, but accidentall, and not as necessarie, but as indifferent, pertaining to comelinesse, order, and edification, wee cannot thinke that there is any change in the worship commaunded, nor any new worship brought in with­out warrant. For example, Christ celebrated the Sup­per at e [...]ening, the Apostles and the Church after thē, in the morning; shall wee say therefore any thing is added or detracted in this Sacrament? no because Christ did not command that this should be celebra­ted in the euening as he did, but only that we should do that which hee did, not at that time wherein hee did it, so that the auncient Church (as wee may reade in Iu­stin Martyr) mingling and delaying the wine with wa­ter▪ did not therefore or thereby change the instituti­on of the Supper, whereof there may be a twofolde reason; one that the wine which Christ gaue to his dis­ciples, might be so allaid for any thing wee knowe, see­ing the Apostles haue set nothing downe to the con­trarie, and therefore probable that the ancient Church receiued it from them. Secondly, because the ancient [Page 123] Church did not adde [...]his in the Sacrament, as an essē ­tiall necessary thing pertaining to the substance of the Supper, Blood and wa­ter out of the side of Christ. but as accidentall to signifie a mysterie; the like may bee saide of many things in Baptisme, where either by adding or detracting to alter things other­wise not essentiall in Baptisme, and therein stil follow­ing the lawes and ceremonies of that Church where­in wee liue, is not to change either the sacrament of Christ, or to prophane it by addition of any wil-wor­ship; to ordaine then new diuine worshippe, is to adde vnto his word: which thing is not lawfull, seeing the word is necessarie, bindeth the conscience, deliuereth the substance of diuine worshippe, and hath nothing in it expressed indifferent. Now to adde hereunto is to ordaine somewhat, as a thing absolutely necessary, & pertaining to the essence of worshippe, and which so bindeth the conscience as the word it selfe, and there­fore they adde not to the word, which by the consent of the Church, do ordaine any ceremony in the exter­nall worship (obseruing the limitations of order, com­linesse, and edification) not as necessary, but as a thing indifferent and free, binding the conscience not out of the qualitie of the thing, but onely from hence, that it is commaunded: for as there are (as the schoolemen say) somethings which are mala quia prohibita, some­things which are prohibita quia mala, so there are some things mandata quia necessaria, some things necessaria quia mandata, of which kinde in Baptisme we account the crosse.

But as wee neither allowe vnmeete, nor purpose the stiffe defence of any vnnecessarie custome heretofore vsed in Baptisme, so wee knowe not yet any reason why infants should be the worse, if at their first admission [Page 128] into the Church of Christ, if at the time when they are deliuered as it were vnto Gods owne possession (for the Church and euery member thereof, as Master Zanchy noteth, ought first of all to offer it selfe to God) cere­monies fit to betoken such intents be vsuall with vs, as in the purest times they haue beene. Hereby putting the whole congregation in mind that the Infant thus admitted into the church, hath by the promise of his [...]ue [...]ties renounced all obedience to the enemies of God, & surrendered vp himselfe for euer vnto his seruice who suffered for his redemption vpon the cros. This being then our innouation, and the beginning of that profession wherein wee purpose to continew to our liues end, to haue either besides the thing, which is Baptisme, a significant signe which is the crosse, or to call it a dedication (seeing the Greeke word [...] is by the olde translatour of the Bible, Vnde Encoenia noualia. sometimes transla­ted dedico, sometimes initio or innouor (which Quintinus obserued at the fift canon of the councell of Gangren) cannot be, in my opinion, from the word Dedicate to make the crosse any part of diuine worship: for though our dedication bee not such as the dedication of the Temple was (and therefore the comparison vnfitly al­ledged in this place) yet godly men (as P. Martyr no­teth) are then visibly consecrated vnto God when they be washed in holy Baptisme, Loc. Com. part. 4. cap. 19. and hereof to haue a signe ex­ternally to signifie their intention, or this signe to bee the crosse cannot in any, reasonable construction bee the inuention of a wil-worship.

And if this signe bee lesse lawfull at this time, by the blemish it may seeme to receiue from Popery; It is not impossible, but that sometimes they may iudge as rightly, what is decent about such externall [Page 129] affaires of God, as in some greater things what is true.

The Hebrewes did dedicate and initiate their things not by simple and bare words, but by adding of out­ward rites, signes I meane, and tokens which might bee seene, not that they taught any holinesse or di­uine quality to bee in those things (for seeing it is in the soule, these are not capable of it) but so they thought because the rites beeing instituted by GOD (whose authoritie in this case the Church now hath) those things which were consecrated, might become instruments of the holy spirit, Loc. Com. lib▪ 4 19. lib. 4. cap by which the faith of men might bee stirred vp; this is the opinion of P. Martyr. Seeing then our dedication, as shall appeare afterward, is not as you imagine, wee conclude, that it is neither vnlawful for the church to adde ceremo­nies, significant in this kinde, as accidentall parts of the externall worshippe, nor (though wee yet graunt you not so much vnlawfull amongst those for to account the crosse, beeing neither by our church esteemed as a meanes) of diuine worshippe, nor imposed for Doctrine, being but the tradition of men.

ANSERE.

WHILST some men, in the sincerity of an vpright minde, haue laboured with humili­ty to giue satisfaction to contentious spirits, both those persons runne more speedily from vs, whom wee de­sire to ouertake, and also a common enemie surpriseth vs with aduantage, making vs to seeme in the eye of the world to bee of their minde, because with greater moderation we abstain from that vehemēt zeale to re­formation, that others more rashly are trāsported with; so that in this case, the labour is neither easie nor safe. For to answere our brethren at home with that trueth and freedom, which both the cause and our loue to their persons doth chalenge from vs, is but to open the mouth of the common aduersarie, as if wee spake and thought as they doe, and out of this feare, to suppresse our answere, were with much weakenesse to betray the trueth.

This consideration, as it is not of small importance in the whole cause, so especially in this point con­cerning the crosse, where the diffence of a lawful ce­remony, may easily bee thought the erecting of that Idoll, whereunto the most superstitious in those later times haue beene corruptly perswaded to giue honor.

[Page 132]For mine owne pa [...]t in satisfaction to the Church of Christ (whereunto I owe the vttermost of that simple talent which GOD hath giuen mee) I Protest, that neither out of malice I oppugne our brethren at home, nor willingly would bee thought to Patronize the least errour of the Church of Rome; neither, I hope, hath any thing euer passed my pen with so sleight consideration since I was able to deale in this cause, whereof I cannot giue a suffici­ent reason that it is farre from the defence of any error of the Romish Church.

And therefore in my opinion, the late Au­thour of the Protestantes Apologie hath dealt somewhat vnkindly with mee and others, to al­ledge vs as witnesses for their side, but most in­considerately, to the disaduantage of his owne cause, who now in the latter end beeing driuen from Scriptures, Fathers, and Councelles, are compelled to support themselues with the wres­ted mistaken Testimonies of such as haue and are willing to fight against them, and yet if wee erre of what valewe are our errours to conuince a trueth?

The daunger of this euill, if it were fully con­sidered by our brethren that will needes striue with vs, would make them forbeare all fur­ther contention in this cause; and Ioyne with our Church in cerimonyes, as they doe in doctrine, that all like the children of the same wombe might bee readye as with one heart and one voyce, to resist their subtill and malicious attempts, who vnder colour of Religion, and the Catholike faith, seeke treacherously the ruine, and subuer­sion [Page 133] both of this Church, and this common­welth.

And therfore (in the Iudgment of all wise, and religious men) vnexcusable is their paynes, and trauell, who extend their witts to the vtter­most of that they are able, to deriue an enuye vpon that gouerment, (as Infected with Popish superstition) wherein, hitherto they haue lo­uingly peaceably and plentifully bene brought-vp.

It seemeth that the vse of the Crosse in Bap­tisme offendeth not so much, as that the Infant by this means is dedicated to Gods seruice; because (say you) If dedicated (at which word you take all your offence) then either Initiated or consecrated (for the words in the Hebrewe doe onely signifie one of these two) of which if we graunt the first, you peremp­torily conclude that Baptisme is made voyde, if the second that then this signe is operatiue and hath ver­tue in it: and yet (say you) in the true vse of speach, to dedicate and to consecrate is all one; I am sorry that in matters of this consequence for which men can perswade themselues that it is warrantable to forsake their flockes, that at the last, the conclusion being summed vp, it should bee onely a contention of wordes; yet I must tell you that to speake properly, and as men of Iudgment haue done before vs; to conse­crate is to make of prophane thinges holy; to dedicate is when they are appoynted to some cer­tayne GOD; P. Martir, loc. Com. Par. 4.9 fo [...] to dedicate or Initiate the Greekes called [...] and [...] but to consecrate [...] and to sanctifie [...], for to sanctifie as Peter, [Page 122] Martyr saith, is nothing else but to apply to diuine & religious vses, or to prepare himself to offer some thing to God.

Now if it may appeare (as doubtlesse it will) that not onely religious things were dedicated, but other things also, and that their dedication was in another kinde, without any worship diuine, but by first vsing; what in­conuenience wil follow, if in the whole action of bap­tisme, and those prayers that are vsed, the Infant be de­dicated, which in the canon is ascribed vnto the crosse, that being the onely externall cerimonie expressing the intention of the whole act? Thus Dauids house was dedicated, for which was made the thirtieth Psalme: the walles of a citie. Nehem. 12.27. were dedi­cated, which was nothing else, as P. Martyr saith, but that the wals of a citie being made vp, the people to­gether with the Leuites and Priests, and also the Princes went thither, and there gaue thanks vnto God, because the walle; were reedified, and prayed that the city might bee righteously vsed. This kinde of Dedication was called by the Hebrewes Canach. The other which was Chadash, was to consecrate things holy to God. Now, which of these you vnderstand to bee done by the crosse in Baptisme, it will not bee greatly material against vs, seeing the verie act of Dedication or conse­cration dependeth not vpon the signe of the crosse, but yet so said, because the crosse is an anciēt significant cō ­uenient signe of that act of dedication or consecration which is done in Baptisme, by the worde and prayer.

For our Dedication in Baptisme is as it were, a sur­rēdering of al that tight which our parēts, or our selues might haue in our selues into Gods hands: wherein as [Page 135] in the dedication both of the Temple and the Taber­nacle, God gaue a manifest signe that hee tooke posses­sion of both: so it standeth with reason, that on the In­fants behalfe, hereafter to put him in minde, and for the present to admonish those that are lookers on, that the minister signe him with that badge, which is the ensigne of his merit & victory, whom the child must serue. The ancient vse of the crosse at all other times was for infidels, but in Baptisme for the good of be­leeuers, which is intended still: but as they haue done in this, so they exclude the crosse in the dedication of Temples, as if it were all one to build a house to God, and a parlour or Kitchin to our selues; wherin though I allow not greatly, the superstitious number of twelue in the building of Churches: yet I am not altogether of their opinion, who hold crosses vnmeete at the de­dication of Temples, which if some corruptly haue v­sed to a false end, wee cannot but mislike their super­perstitious intention, and yet retaine that warrantable signe, which wel becommeth that place, which ought to be the religious Schoole-house of Christs death. If wee may credit antiquity in the storie of Iulian, when hee looked the intrals of beasts (for south-saying, Sozo [...]. pag, 108. Nazian, or [...] in Iul. 1. P. Diac. &c. inue­nit crucem coronatam, hee found a crosse with a crowne, from whence some collected Christian religion to be perpetuall, and that Iulian could not ouercome it, o­thers Angustias & quasi carceres crucis; but peraduēture more truely, to signifie an euerlasting Crowne pur­chased by his death, that suffered vpon the crosse; be­sides, in the garments of those Iewes which sought to reedifie the Temple at Iulians commaundement, there were imprinted crosses, as if that power that suffered ignominiously vpon the crosse, would testifie the [Page 126] strength of his arme, even in that which they most contemned, shall wee then bee ashamed of that badge? or bee vnwilling to dedicate our selues vnto his seruice by that sygne, which was the note of his fearefull power to such as resisted his right hand, and so farre honored by the holy ghost that it often expresseth the whole meritt of his passion, by the bloode of the Crosse, so that if strange conclusi­ons be not vrged vpon vs, It is neither to make Bap­tisme voyde, to say wee are dedicated by the Crosse, (ascribing that to the signe which is done in the whole act) nor to make it, or Baptisme operatiue in that sence, to say that by Baptisme and so ma­nifested by that signe, we are consecrated to gods seruice, and that consequently, our dedication by this signe, is such as the auncyent fathers before poperye did vse.

But least the Innocencye of the auncient tymes, should seeme to be a warrant for the simple vse of the Crosse among vs, (who thought it ever Honor and vertue enoughe to treade in the harme­les steppes of our forefathers) you laye an equall burthen for this corruption vpon them, as if nothing were ascribed to the Crosse, in or out of Baptisme by the rankest Papists (saving the very poynt of adorati­on) but the fathers are as deepely ingaged in the same; this If I had vttered, the Church of Rome would Iustly haue thought, that I had done them a great honor, in allowing their superstitious abuse of this signe, sauing onely in one poynt, to be the verye same [...]or vertue, and power, as the aun­cyenter fathers did ascribe vnto it; so that whilst you desire to make the Church of England as guilty [Page 137] of superstition in the vse of this signe, as they are now of the Church of Rome, you Inconsiderately and perhaps vntruely make the rankest papists no lesse Ignorant in that poynt, then the auncyentest and purest fathers haue bene before them: whatso­ever is capable of corruption (as the best thinges and actions wherein man concurreth, of necessity are) (for wee haue all corrupted our owne wayes) commeth not vpon the sodayne to that height of euill but that more evident markes of the former Integritye remaine, which in continuance of time, are not onely blemished, but whollye turned into another corrupt nature.

This is evident in that great and Antichris­tian defection of the trueth, which was not all eclipsed or ouershadowed at once; but Ig­norance breeding superstition; superstition never satisfying it selfe in the surmised acts of religion, but erring in the excesse, as prophanenes in the defect, hath added daylye to the first corrup­tions, that she is nowe as the heade of a smalle riuer, which sendeth forth but one streame, which cannot knowe her owne daughter in, continuance of time, being growne like vnto an Ocean, by the manyfold additions of sundrie and strainge wa­ters.

The Histories of former ages doe record vnto vs the beginning, the increase the perfecti­on of the grouth in the superstitious corrupti­ons of the Church of Rome; and howsoeuer all agree not, when this defection beganne, yet most men knowe, that there was a time in [Page 138] the priatiue age of our fathers, when few or none of the ceremonies of the Church were infected with such corruption as now they are. So that the seueritie of those is ouer great, who would wrap the fathers imme­diatly succeeding the Apostles time, with the same superstition (saue only in the point of adoration) wher­with the Papists are iustly accused to bee infected at this day: I confesse, when the Papists are charged by vs to haue corrupted the truth, by rehearsall of many false miracles done by the signe of the crosse, they al­ledge the testimonies of all fathers, Bellar. Marshall. saying (which you confesse, but I doe not) that they haue esteemed no o­therwise of the crosse then the fathers of the Church haue done before them. Wee then say for sa­tisfaction in this point, that it had beene equall and right in you, before the imputation of so much corrup­tion to the blessed memory of those holy men, to haue showed what the Papists ascribe vnto the crosse, what the fathers, and what wee; No man can deny, but that God, after the death of his sonne, manifested his power to the amazement of the world in this contemptible signe, which peraduenture gaue iust occasion, beeing the instrument of so many miracles, that corrupter times, as those that succeeded were, did ouerburden it with fables and worshippe, the one false, the other I­dolatrous, both seruing to poyson the after ages with dangerous superstition: the Church of Rome at this present, differeth from the ancient fathers, as we differ from them, in making the very crosse wherupon Christ died, to bee a relick, and all other crosses to be as Ima­ges: and lastly the vere figure made in the ayre, to haue a spirituall and diuine vertue, to cast out diuels and to worke miracles, Beller. lib. 2. de Imag. cap. 30. and as Bellermine saith Terret & fu­gat [Page 139] daemones, pellit morbos, & omnia mala; sanctificat ea quibus imprimitur; which vertues or some of which, if God manifested in the crosse in the dayes of our fore­fathers, Sanctit as acce­dit rebus cum signantium cru­ce. to ascribe the same vnto now, is not to say truly as they fathers did, but superstitiouslie to err with the church of Rome, as if the power of healing which followed annoynting in the primitiue church, might be a warrant either for the annointing vsed a­mongst papists at this day, or imbolden any man to say that nothing is ascribed by the rankest papist (for that is your phrase) to annointing, but the fathers are as deeply ingaged in the same; so that whilst our church professeth the vse hereof as the fathers did, they neither tie themselues to the example of all, nor can be iustly denyed to haue the warrant of the soun­dest fathers for the vse hereof. For the moderate vse as now it is retayned in the church of England seemeth to be an apostolicall constitution, being accounted as a thing auncyently & generally receiued in Tertulli­ans time, who was within two hundred yeares after Christ, and within lesse then a hundred yeares after, Saint Iohn, Conser. pag. 73 74. in which shortnes of time, it were Iniury to think, that a superstitious Idolatry, should gaine that honor, to be accounted an auncyent and a reuerēd sygne. And therefore in my opinion lesse excusable is their fault, who laye the imputation of false dealing with his maiestie by the Bishops at the conference, being informed (but as you say) ( vntruly) that the papists neuer ascribe any power or spirituall grace in Baptisme vn­to the Crosse; surely wisedome must account it if not malice, yet great rashnes to giue the ly to those reuerend persons, in answere whereof I only say thus much; that what the Bishops had informed his maiestie in this [Page 140] point, his profound knowledge like the oracle of God, Rhem. Test. in 1. Tim. 4 Bellard. de miss. Lib. 215 Signum crucis est ceremonia omnium com­munissima et antiquissima Aust Tract. 118, in Iohan. addeth ( and I finde it to be true); and questionlesse those places alledged in your margent, do not proue that in Baptisme the papists ascribe any power or spirituall grace vnto the crosse: but onely make it a most auncyent and most common cerimonie, with­out which no Sacraments can rightly be performed. Wherein if following Saint Austin they go to farr [...] yet it is iniury to charge them with that which is none of theirs; and for our selues we say, & I doubt not but shortly it wil be proued to all the world, we haue purged the crosse in baptisme from all that po­pi [...] superstition which did cleaue vnto it, and there­fore you need not excuse that reuerend assembly by laying the fault vpon some committyes, seing a little before you are not affraid to accuse them, for dealing with others, for the making of the Canons, as the fa­thers were vsed in the councill of Arimyne, and whom immediately in the words following, you iealously sus­spect, vnder the couert of phrases to surprise the truth; but as wisedome and iudgment is their honor, so reuerēce and obedience is our duety. So then to draw to a cō ­clusion in this point (leauing the full defence of the crosse to others of more Iudgment) we cannot but cō ­fesse that we haue read many things in the ecclesiasti­call histories, and the fathers in commendation of this signe, which at first peraduenture not euill gaue oc­casion of superstition to those that followed: many things we confesse to be fabulous & vntrue, sōethings perhaps counterfeited by Satan, other things true but not auaileable to warrant the blindnes of after times: some things which in those times might well be tollerated but not now: some things which euen in [Page 141] these times, & in our church may iustly warrant the vse of the crosse amongst vs: Hooker. Lib. 5. Sect. 65. Pag. 165.68. for) as one learnedly observeth (which may giue the indifferēt reader satisfaction in this cause) betweene the crosse which superstition honoreth as Christ, and that ceremonie of the crosse which serueth onely for a signe of remēbrance, there is as plaine & as great a differēce, as between those brasē Images which Salomon made to beare vp the cestern of the Tēple & (sith both were of like shape but of vn­like vse) that which the Israelites in the wildernes did adore▪ 2. Chro. 4.3. or betweene the altars which Iosias destroyed, because they were instruments of meere idolatry, Exod. 32 4. and that which the tribe of Rubē with others erected, near to the riuer of Iordan, for which also (as you do) they grew at the first into some dislike, & were by the rest of their brethren suspected yea hardly charged with opē breach of the law of God, accused of backwardnes in religion, vpbrayded bitterly with the fact of Peor, and the odious exāple of Achan▪ as if the building of their Altar in that place had giuē manifest shew of no bet­ter then intended Apostacy, till by a true declaration made in their owne defence, it appeared that such as misliked, misunderstood their enterprise, in as much as they had no intēt to build any altar for sacrifice which God would haue no where offered, sauing in Ierusalem only, but to a farr other end and purpose, which being opened satisfied all partes, and so deliuered them frō causeles blame: so likewise touching the signe & cere­mony of the crosse (which for a simple significatiue signe your selfe can allow) we no way finde our selues bound to relinquish it, neither because the first inuen­tors thereof were but mortall men, nor least the sence and signification (namely to dedicate) should burthen vs, as the authors of a new ghospell in the house of god [Page 142] nor in respect of some cause which the fathers had more then we haue to vse the same, nor finally for any such offence or scandall as heretofore it hath been subiect vnto by error now reformed in the minde of men. Of kneeling at the Communiō SECT. 9.

ANSVVERE.

Where the weaknes of man hath no other strēgth, and his soule by reason of sinn, no other meanes of sal­uation, but In and By the couenant betwixt God and him; there we are especially to make account of those duties, which are Signes, and meanes, of all that which religiously is to be performed on our partes: this the [Page 143] fathers haue expressed vnder this one name of Deuoti­on, which some of them not vnfitly tearme the marrow of our burnt sacrifices as if our burnt sacrifices with­out this, Medulla Hol [...] caustorum, Lib. 4. Orthodox. fid cap. 3 were like the offerings of Caine, without fat­nes. Now as man (as Damascen speaketh) is composed of two natures, Intellectuall and sensible; so he oweth and is to offer vnto god a two fold deuotion, the one spirituall, which consisteth in the inward minde, the other corporall in the outward humiliation of the bo­dy: this latter is rather for the furtherance of our selues & others, Iohn. 4. in the waies of piety, thē as a thing of it selfe acceptable to God, who being a spirit, is to be wor­shiped in spirit & truth: yet by this external gesture (the bowing of the knee) as by the manifest figure of our humility which corporally we performe: our inward affection cherefully is stirred vp, with alacrity & dili­gēce to discharge what belongeth to his inward wor­ship: the vse of bowing the knee, when we either begg or receiue any thing from Gods hand, hath beene ancy­ent and warrantable in Gods church, and it is no lesse comely & behooueful for vs vpō our knees, to beg that the cupp of his blood may profitably and effectually passe to vs, Luk. 23 then for our sauiour himselfe prostrate to in treat, that the cupp of his passion might passe frō him.

For seing all men in the time of that action, whilest the minister vttering the words in the administratiō of the sacrament praye, that they may be preserued in body and soule vnto eternall life, are then (vnlesse they be carelesse of so great a benefit) humbly pro­strate in their harts, and begging with all, the assistance of his grace to receiue it worthely: all other offices of religion may better wāt the bowing of our knees then this one, whereof by reason of our sinnes we may iust­ly [Page 144] feare to want the benefit, and wherein we hope to receiue our sauiour and all his merits, at whose name all knees are to bow both in heauen and earth; & there­fore our kneeling at the communion, as one well no­teth, is the gesture of piety, Mr. Hooker. Lib. 5 Doct. 68. Pag. 183. for if we did there present our selues but to make some show or dumb resemb­lance of a spirituall feast; it may be that sitting were the fitter ceremonie: but comming as receiuers of in­estimable grace at the hands of God, what doth better beseeme our bodies at that hower, then to be sensible witnesses of mindes vnfainedly humbled? and if the example of our sauiour ouersway any mans consci­ence in this case, we must tell them that the church hath varyed euen with allowance, both the time and the place from those which our sauiour vsed; and in this our Lord himselfe did that which custome and long vsage had made fit, we that which fitnesse and great decency hath made vsuall: which externall de­cent humility if any ignorantly haue stayned with su­perstition, it is not their voluntary seruice without warrant in doing more then they ought can priuiledg vs contrary to reason and the commaundement of our owne church to performe lesse then we should▪ For se­ing, all locall bodyes must haue some position in all that which they do or suffer, what could be thought of in this action more conuenient for both, then knee­ling, which fitly serueth to expresse our humility in re­ceiuing so vnspeakeable a fauour, and withall to set forth the offering vp of our thanks, which, prostrate v­pon our knees we desire god to accept in his owne sonne? wherein doubtles if all men had beene wel in­structed (nay if many had not been taught the contra­ry) without lawes euen reason it selfe would haue [Page 145] [...]ould them that nothing was better beseeming there uerence of this act, then hartely to begg & humbly to giue thāks, for so vnspeakable a benefit vpō their knees. And therefore you haue truly considered (waighing the thing it self) that it was neither vnlawfull nor vn­fit vpon our knees to take such a token of gods fauour, wherein how far euen at ordinary times, others in for­mer ages haue gone before the presumptuous stubbernes of our dayes, de viris Illust. in Iacobo, et epist 15, de laud, bu [...] Marcellae, Ter­tull, ad Scap, ce Lib, 3, ad Ver. Mark, cap, [...]8. Ille interior in uisibilis qui [...]o [...] fecit auge [...]ur ac per hoc [...]ordis affectus qui vt fierent illa precessa quia vt facta sunt cress­it quia facta sunt crescit Aust. de cura p [...]o mort, cap. 5 saint Hierom and others may wit­nesse. For howsoeuer the motions of the body cannot well be, vnlesse the minde before be prepared with the same affection, yet euen that inward inuisible humi­litie of the hart which gaue strength to this outwarde receiueth strength from it: and that which went be­fore that it might be done, receiueth increase from it in that it is done: which decent behauiour if any mislike because what the church thinketh fit to be done it punisheth sharply when it is not done, these take vnto themselues a libertie, that whilst the church censureth worthely the disobedience of such as heare not her voice, these ouer boldly censure the church in that her voice, is not guided by their tongues. And if the punishment of excommunication be thought by any ouer greeuous for the omission of so indifferent a ce­remonie (which in your opinion is a small offēce) you must know that wise men cannot account the offence small, where the disobedience is great; and the disobedience cannot be little, where there is a contempt of those lawes which the church doth make: nay as the seruants answered Nahaman the Syrian, if you had beene commaunded any great thing especially in the humility of our soules to [Page 146] receiue so great a benefit, ought we not to haue done it? and therefore howsoeuer we pitty their case, yet vn­excusable is the error of those men who chuse rather to want the food of their soule by this blessed sacra­ment, then to receiue the sacrament prostrate vpon their knees, as if an opiniō of that superstitiō wherwith some others had stayned it, could hurt him that knee­leth in obedience and humility, especially knowing his owne heart to be vpright in that point, and seeing no reason sinisterly to suspect the vertuous intentiō of this church which professeth an vtter abolishing of al superstitious ceremonies. And therefore if you thinke the reuerend fathers of the church to deale with you and others in vrging of these things, as the men of Lyons and Vyenna, whose hurts being often and cruell, shewed that they fought for some further end thē for Nero and Galba: it is but your want of charity and not their fault. Neither do I se how that act can be fitting to this purpose, seeing as the trāslatour of Tacitus doth tell you in the margent; the first inhabitans of Lyons had beene driuen by force out of Vyenna and therefore were iustly to hate them as vniust vsurpers of that which was theirs. Tacit. Histo. Lib. [...], cap. 11. Which in my small vnderstanding can beare no proportion betwixt the bishops and those which refuse subscription, against whome if seuerity be vsed (I date protest for some of them vpon my knowledg) it is with much griefe, Math.. 18. Excomunicatus hosti non datur quasi damnan­dus sed corri­gendus. Aqui­nas. and for no other end but for the vnitie & peace of this church. And if any man be ex­cōmunicated in this case, I dare not excuse him seeing our sauiour commaundeth vs to account him as a heathē that will not heare the church, who notwithstand­ing doth not giue him to Satan to condemne him but to correct him, & therefore I hope we may be bold [Page 147] to conclude as the church doth, that kneeling at the communion is a ceremonie lawfull, and fitly com­maunded to be vsed &c. and that those iustly are ex­communicate who refuse to doe it.

ANSVVERE.

AS in a great variety of Iewels, affection & iudg­ment do not easely agree which to valew and esteeme of most worth, so amongst al those vertues (the [Page 148] true ornaments of a Christian life) which seuerally are deuided vnto Christian men, all being excellent, it cannot easily be determined, which exceedeth; but leauing the rest, and following the blessed contention which Saint Paule maketh concerning Faith, Hope, and Charitie; wee say Abraham testifyeth for the first, who beleeued, and it was accounted vnto him for righteousnesse. Enoch taught the assurance of Hope, who religiously expecting a better life, Gen. 4.26. gaue begin­ning to the publicke inuocation of Gods name; Last­ly, the patterne of true Charitie was Christ himselfe, whole loue being stronger then death, Amor tenuit in Cruce, quē mors non tenuit in sepulchre. 1. Iohn. 4 held him vp­on the crosse whom Death was not able to hold in the graue; nay God maketh Loue, to be himselfe, in that hee maketh himselfe to bee loue, and who so abideth in loue, to abide in God, and God in him, and howsoeuer there can be no Christian life, where these three remayne not, Fayth, Hope, and Charitie, yet the greatest of these is Charitie. 1. Cor. 13. For if we had all faith, so that wee could remooue mountaines; yet if wee wanted Charitie, we were nothing: Faith is the foundation of the Spirituall building of Gods house, [...] Charitie the roofe, without which the best are, but as houses vncouered that can­not long continue: there is no iust reason to denie our loue vnto our brethren of the same promise, (who are the sonnes and hoyres of the same life with vs) ex­cept sin: nay though they sinne, which wee ought not to loue in them, yet we are not warranted to leaue off our loue; thogh they leaue not sin. For euen out of this vertue of charitie we can afforde them a couering to make their sins in our opinion to seeme lesse, Charitas oberit multitudin [...]m peccatorum 1. Pet. 4.8. Charitie still directing vs in other mens falles for to hope the [Page 149] best. And therfore euen those whom wee ought to ex­communicate (if we had authoritie) we dare not pro­nounce as absolutely cut off from the attainement of euerlasting life; the one is the discipline of the Church, to cut off for a time that which is euill; the other is our peculiar charitie to hope that that may be good, which is cut off. And therefore such men who haue no other interest in their brethren, but to hope and to speake the best thing [...], can no way receiue preiudice, if (following the commaundement of the Church) they pronounce of all liuing within her bosome, a sure and certaine hope of resurrectio to e­ternall life. And pray to haue with them their per­fect consummation and blisse, not taking vnto them the exact iudgement of God himselfe, who onely knoweth such as belong vnto him, in which men may erre as well (though not so easily, In Ecclesia sunt [...]ulta lup [...], ex­tra ecclesiam sunt mul [...]a en [...] nor so often) in those of much outward holinesse, as in them that are openly prophane, and therefore in both we thinke and speake onely as we are warranted by Hope. Wherein if our charitie shall exceed the happinesse of any that so dy­eth, it shall be no hurt to our soule to pray to haue our perfect consummation and blisse with him, of whom charitie made vs so to hope and to speake, though he be not saued: this being the intention of our prayer, that all dying in the bosome of the Church shall haue part in the triumphant (with whom we desire from the communion of Saints to partake, not as they in Gods secret iudgement may bee, for so wee thinke it not lawfull to speake of the best that are, but as our charitie maketh vs to hope of them, and as the church teacheth vs to speak) with this our brother, and all other departed in the true faith of his holy [Page 150] name) for so we suppose him to be; for howsoeuer his sinnes may be manifest and publick in this life, yet we dare not esteem him in death impenitent; nei­ther can any authoritie belonging to vs, so warrant vs to distinguish betwixt the cleane, and the vncleane, but that in charity we may both hope and speake bet­ter then the secret iustice of god will permit: and yet neither speake good of euill, seing we thinke as we speake, nor iustifie the wicked seeing we acquitt but them, whome we haue no authority to condemne; following in all things a christian charity which there is litle feare should be ouermuch, especially in these dayes wherein it it is prophesied that it shall wax cold.

ANSVVER

THere are few cōsiderations that more effectually do moue pittie, then where the innocēt are wraped in a misery procured by the offence of others; and I confesse for my owne parte, I neuer heard or thought of the iust depriuation of any of tollerable desert, but I hartily lamented, that those things should seeme so greuous in their iudgment, as to defraude the church of God, of their best indeauours, and to sylence them­selues from the preaching of the gospell, that might be through a blessing so benificiall to many, & being imposed by a woe, could hardly be neclected without a curse. This hath made me earnestly and oftē to pray that the thirst of Innouation increased in many by the comming of his maiesty vnto this kingdome, did not inforce men through the euill counsell of some hypo­criticall brethren, Iealously to suspect, and malitious­ly to depraue the cerimonies and gouernment of the church, when they had least cause. And amongst those manifould misteries which accompanyed the King into this land, this is not the least, that when a strong continuance of a setled truth, dispersing all wandering opinions vnder a learned prince, was more then hope­fully assured to be the blessing of our Land, that then, euen then there should be an increase both of papists and puritans, as if both had discouered an extraordina­ry fauour, to be showed to either; but I can better satis­fie my selfe in those of the church of Rome, then in the other, for all men in afflictiō (which surely though [Page 152] not simply, yet comparatiuely was their case) are ouer apt to flatter themselues in all changes of a state, that some thing will ease them, but most especially then, when they see fauours and mercies almost not denied to any. But it is the distemper of euill humors that maketh false constructions, or collections from a mer­cifull Prince.

Now for your selfe and others, who inioyed your libertie, fauour, preferment, and all other benefits with, and beyond men of your owne time, and per­haps of your owne worth, yeelding your obedience and subscription to the gouernment and rites of this Church, in the daies of Queene Elizabeth of famous memorie: after a learned conference for satisfaction, wherein the best and most Iudiciall that desired refor­mation, yeelded: after exceeding care, and Zeale manifested in our dread Soueraigne, after the most re­ligious and sincere conuocation of the cleargie, that euer was in this Church: wherein the whole scope was a purer reformation of all that in manners and cere­monies wa [...] thought faultie: now I say, to refuse to subscribe, whereas before you had often done it, vpon some suspicious feare without cause, that the intenti­on of the Church was altered, I wish you could as wel satisfie others, and the whole flocke of Christ, then committed to your charge, as I can beleeue that you are perswaded that you satisfie your owne conscience. A wife and tenne children are strong motiues, but to flesh and bloud: thinke I pray you, and thinke serious­ly of Christs Church, how many of her children (as farre as in you lieth) are frustrate of nourishment by your meanes; and thinke that the ground of this losse eyther to your selfe, or to the family of Christ, is your [Page 153] owne want of conformitie, which more iustly is to be lamented, by how much more, God hath blessed you with excellent giftes, but I trust the Church shall neuer need their paines, that loue not her peace, nor desire them to speake, that haue not yet learned to har­ken vnto her voyce.

ANSVVER.

THere is no part of this whole Treatise, which so vnwillingly I answere as this last; wherein many things are vttered with so much passion, as eyther our seueritie in replying, must exceed the vsuall modera­tion which wee desire to hold, or else we may iustly be suspected, to betray the cause and the persons whom we should defend. And therefore without any other answere, we will only put you in minde of those harsh speeches, which may peraduenture in this discontent­ment be agreeable to your fancie, but are no way su­table to your cause, nor verie well beseeming a man of your place. First in these words: I now beseech your Lordship to remember that the most of vs haue beene peace­able in Israell, and that if some mens rashnes draw reuenge vpon vs, Aemelius hath faulted, and Rutilius is beaten; one Mardochey hath not stouped, and all the Iewes must perish for it. Can you beleeue that your depriuation is a reuenge which some mens rashnes hath drawn vpon you? Is the proceeding of the reuerend Fathers, for the vnitie of the Church, as if Aemilius had faulted, and Rutilius should be beaten? or can you in your own conscience compare it with the perishing of the Iewes, for the not stooping of one Mardochey? assure your selfe none of them are so transported with ambition, nor so incensed with any particuler contempt offe­red vnto themselues, which they could not easily haue remitted, if their remissenesse in this had not ha­zarded the Churches peace. And therefore doubt not but your selfe and others can well testifie that some of them haue dealt with your selfe, and diuers [Page 156] in your case like fathers with their owne children, lea­uing nothing vnattempted to reforme your opinion, before they proceeded to giue sentence. A dutie that lieth vpon their shoulders, with as much indispensable necessitie, as conformitie and obedience vpon ours. Like vnto this surmise, is that which followeth; And say wee cannot confirme in euerie point, you know who said, the varietie of ceremonies did commend the vnitie of faith: But doubtlesse it had beene much better for the Church: more warrantable for your selues: more pleasing to the state: more profitable to your owne families: to haue conformed your selues in e­uerie poynt, then by refusing to hinder the Church of that good, which by your owne confession might haue beene more in one yeare then all the Ceremonies will doe whilest the vvorld standeth. For if any thing be imposed by authoritie contrarie to the word of God, let some men take vpon them to prooue it; and farre be it from vs for any mans cause to main­taine an euicted errour; wee may bee deceiued, and haue our infirmities as other men, but wee are not vnwilling, who will needes bee our aduersa­ries, to account them our maisters, if there bee iust cause.

But if these ceremonies be onely vnlawfull to some men, for want of true resolution, and so contrarie to conscience (which yet is no warrant for disobe­dience) let them learne to know that in things not vnlawfull; It is better to obey, then to offer Sa­crifice. Amongest men of equall authoritie in place of freedome, diuersities of opinions may safely be published without offence, but where men want authority and place to aduise, and when Iawes haue set [Page 157] downe what is though fit, there, to thinke otherwise then the Church doth, it is, as if common passen­gers would sayle to Chyna, by the North-east, when the maisters and gouernours had determined to sayle by the North-west.

Wherein if both partes remayne equally stiffe in their owne opinions, a mutinie must fol­low for want of Discipline: sometimes I confesse va­rietie and alteration of cerimonies are thought fit; both to shew the authoritie of the Church, (for you selfe haue confessed when you read your articles that eue­rie particuler or nationall Church hath authoritie to or­dayne, Articles of 156. Artic. 34. change, and abolish ceremonies, or rites of the Church ordained onely by mans authoritie, so that all things bee done to aedifying.) Secondly, that they are but furthe­rances of deuotion, and no partes of diuine wor­ship.

But when they are established as thought fit for de­cencie, edification, and order, by such as haue au­thoritie from Christ to moderate those thinges: then by inferiour persons (such as wee are) eyther to bee oppugned, misconstrued, despised, or disobeyed, it is daungerouslye, to kindle a fyre of Rebellion in the principall parts of Gods house. But that which followeth, is much worse.

O my good Lord, will it not bee enough to keepe safe and well fenced your Iurisdictions and personall digni­ties? not enough to deuide the Honours to your selues, and labours to vs? Haue the last Canons no other end, but to fence the Iurisdictions, and personall digni­ties vnto the B B. Doubtlesse the diminishing of their honors, which could neuer haue been without wrong [Page 158] vnto the Church, was little to be feared (though the Canons had not beene) where so wise a King ruled ouer vs, who had throughly tasted the cala­mities and miseries of that Church, which placed the greatest part of their Zeale in suppressing of Bishops; and whilest they laboured that none might haue too much, they presently brought it so to passe that scarce any had what was reasonable enough: besides if you knew the vnwearied paines, the in­tollerable burthens, that diuers of the Reuerend Fa­thers, who watch ouer vs dayly, sustayne for the peace and the happinesse of this Church, Episcopi. you would plainely acknowledge preaching not to be the grea­test paines, and that it is a misdeeming of their care to thinke, That they haue deuided the honours to them­selues, and the labours to you. Surely there is no greater or more vehement exercise of faith amon­gest so many perils, then prayers for the publicke peace of the Church, and it is our parts to vnderstand those perils, and to iudge them to appertaine to our owne safeties.

Besides it is our dutie to ascribe to the Magis [...]rates, Wisedome and Iustice, that is, that wee doe not pre­ferre our priuate iudgements before the lawes, and decrees of the Church, but obey them: This ho­nour is most agreeable to publicke peace, not to ca­uill against the lawes, nor to interprete them with Iea­lousie or Enuie; but to couer, to excuse, and mitigate the ouer-sightes of Magistrates and lawes if there be any. This as it is in priuate the ornament of a Christian, so it is in publicke the honour of a good subiect. 1, Cor. 13 Coloss. 3 Loue beareth all things: Loue is the bond of perfection, to pre­uent dissolutions of a Church or a commonwealth. [Page 159] And heerein if the requisite seueritie which the pal­sie of the Church exacteth from the Reuerend Fa­thers, draw them to punish, whom they desire to fa­uour, to aduance and cherish, it is not a casting out of borne Israelites (as you terme it) but a iust repre­hension, setting a marke vpon that sonne, that hath made no conscience to discouer the supposed naked­nesse of his owne father. Cha [...]. In whose place it any wild beasts (Papists you meane) shall multiply, I doubt not but their religious care, will be as readie to suppresse the one, as depriue the other: And if in the ende (as you prophesie) (which God forbid) vnfortunately it happen, that the Bishops shall want you, as King Henry did Cromewell, it shall be much safer to indure the hazard of those times, then to buy an aduan­tage at so deare a price. In the meane time beleeue (which it is fit for you to acknowledge) that if you for­beare vpon the poynt of Conscience, their Lordshipps haue better reasons for that they do, then to stand vpon termes of their owne pleasures. Now to conclude this vnpleasing worke, which wee laid aside, in hope to haue rested without trouble, vntill such time as we saw their bookes of this argument to increase still, and heard that as much of this as was then printed, was by them confuted; wee desire all men to think of vs, as of those that account the infirmities of our brethren our owne harmes, and the modest directions of men as meane as our selues, to be no blemish vnto vs, who propound not victory, A prayer. but truth, and the Churches peace. The God of all loue, and the giuer of all graces multiply his bles­sings vpon this land, let them be poured (O Lord) as an oyntment vpon the Kings head, strengthen the weake hands of the reuerend fathers, the chiefe buil­ders [Page 160] of his Temple; giue vnto vs all vnity and peace, as the bonds and sinewes of the communion of saints; make vs to thinke and to speake the same things; grant vnto you and others that refuse conformitie vpon conscience a better light: peace in your hearts▪ remorse for silencing your selues; comforts against all worldly afflictions: and if it so seeme good to his infinite wisedome (seeing our Church hath so many trayterous and seditious enemies without) that all within her owne bosome, may thinke, loue, desire, and behaue our selues in all things as be. commeth the Saints of God. Amen. Amen.