Hee saith,

1 THat because he percei­ueth, that diuers excepti­ons are taken against his late letter written to Car­dinall Bellarmine; he is wil­ling to set downe his iudg­ment more fully, concer­ning the duetie which all Subiects doe owe to their Soueraigne Lords, vnder whom they were borne; and consequently all Catholickes English­men, vnto his Maiestie KING IAMES.

2 First hee saith, vpon certaine demaunds propounded vnto him, That he acknowledgeth all the precepts in the New Testament, as touch­ing [Page 2] obedience to Emperours, Kings, and Ciuil Magistrates, to be perpetuall, and may not be changed or qualified by any authoritie whatsoe­uer, either Ecclesiasticall or Ciuil: and that what Subiect soeuer, aswell Ecclesiasticall, as Lay doeth violate any of them, vpon any occasion, o [...] at any time, or by vertue of any dispensation, or o [...] any intent, to profit thereby the Catholike cause and aduance Religion, or for any other cause whatsoeuer, he doeth therein sinne mortally: [...] euer being vnlawfull to do euil, that good might come of it.

3 That hee vtterly condemneth all those who shall presume to affirme, that either Christ or his Apostles did temporize in the said precepts as meaning that Subiects were no longer bound to obey the Emperour, Kings, and souereign Princes, being wicked, Apostatas, or heretiques then vntill they were able by force of Armes to suppresse them: that impious conceit in those dayes being farre in his iudgement from the god­ly Bishops and Christians then liuing.

4 That whereas in the Apostles times, and so afterwards for the space of about 300. yeeres the Emperors were not only Pagans themselue (except it were one of them) and refused to em­brace the Gospel, but likewise endeauoured by all the meanes they could, of crueltie, and mo [...] bloodie persecution, to suppresse the propaga­tion of it; forasmuch as the godly Bishops, Fa­thers, and Christians in those dayes, hauing lear­ned [Page 3] their duties of obedience from Christ and his Apostles, neither taught nor put in practise any course of disobedience, nor bare armes against them, though (as Tertullian saith) they had suffi­cient Tertull in A­polog. cap. 37. force so to haue done: he this Examinate doeth greatly approoue such their dutifull obedi­ence; affirming, that in his iudgement they had sinned mortally, if they had done otherwise.

5 That euen in the case of Iulian (who, ha­uing first embraced the Gospel, became after­wards an Apostata) the godly Bishops, Fathers, and Christians in those times, although some writ bitterly against him, yet they did not excite his Subiects to beare armes against him, nor did themselues enter into any rebellion: either of which courses, if they had attempted, this Exa­minate thinketh (as before) that they had greatly offended God, and broken the precepts of Christ and his Apostles: adding, that therein he ioyned with S. Augustine, where he speaketh of the duty Augustine in Psal. 124. which Christians performed to Iulian, though he were an Apostata: Iulianus extitit infidelis Impera­tor. Nonne extitit Apostata, iniquus, Idololatra? Mili­tes Christiani seruiebant Imperatori infideli. Vbi veni­ebatur ad causam Christi, non agnoscebant nisi illum, qui in coelo erat. Quando volebat, vt Idola colerent, vt thurificarent; praeponebant illi Deum: quando au­tem dicebat, Producite aciem, ite contra illam gentem, statim obtemperabant. Distinguebant Dominum aeter­tum à domino temporali: & tamen subditi erant, propter Dominum aeternum, etiam domino temporali. [Page 4] That is, Iulian was an vnbeleeuing Emperour. Was hee not an Apostata, an oppressour, and an Idolater? Christian Souldiers serued an vnbeleeuing Emperour: when it came to the cause of CHRIST, they did ac­knowledge none but him, that was in Heauen. When he would haue them to worship Images; and to sacrifice, they preferred God before him: but when he said, Bring forth an Army, goe against such a Nation, they foorth­with obeyed. They distinguished the eternall Lord from the temporall, and yet were subiect vnto the temporall lord, for the Eternall.

6 This Examinate hauing thus declared his iudgement in the premises; it was demanded of him, whether he had seene the Popes last Breue, dated at Rome, 10. Calend. Septemb. 1607. begin­ning, Renunciatum est &c. and what, vpon the sight therof, his iudgement now was, as touching the lawfulnesse of the oath of Allegeance before by him taken. Whereupon he sayeth, that hee hath onely seene a Copie of the said last Breue: that he hath very carefully perused, and weighed euery sentence and clause in it, and that neuer­thelesse he remaineth stedfastly in his former opi­nion and iudgement, viz. That it is lawful for all Catholickes in England to take the said oath of Allegeance, published the last Session but one of this present Parliament, and that he constantly is fetled, as touching euery part and member of the said oath, formerly by him taken, that they are true: and that this he doth acknowledge, with­out any equiuocation, or mentall euasion, or se­cret [Page 5] reseruation whatsoeuer, to all intents and purposes, as if he should here againe haue repea­ted the said oath at large.

7 This Examinate being here required, for­asmuch as in his iustification of the said oath, and of his taking of it, since his sight of the last Breue, he doth relie vpon his former opinion and iudge­ment; which notwithstanding in the Letter written to Cardinall Bellarmine, he doeth strangely qualifie (contrary to the expectation had of him heere for his plaine dealing and sinceritie:) that therefore he should deliuer the grounds and rea­sons of his said iudgement, why he first aduised the Romish Catholicks to take that oath, with an assurance giuen by vertue of his authoritie, that it was lawfull for them so to doe: for answere hereunto he saith, that the effect of the reasons sent by him to Rome (as he said in his Examinati­on now published in Print, and a briefe abstract whereof he deliuered to certaine of the Lords of his Maiesties most honourable priuse Counsell) was grounded vpon the points following.

8 It is well knowen (saith he) to all that be learned, and will be graunted without any con­tradiction, that the Pope may not proceede with Princes, otherwise then is behoouefull for the Church. Forasmuch then as he may be oftētimes ignorant (as Alphonsus Mendoza faith) whether Alphons. Men­doza. the order and proportion of temporall things do indeede tend directly and truely in finem spiritua­lem, to a spirituall end, and for the good of the [Page 6] Catholicke Church; and that he cannot other­wise discerne of such circumstances, but secundùm humanum intelligentiaemodū, according to the mea­sure of humane intelligence: and besides, for that he may erre in hijs iudicijs quae ad particularia facta pertinent, in those iudgements which concerne particular facts, (as Couarruuias affirmeth) and the rather because the Pope (as this Examinate fea­reth) Couarruu. tom. 1. pag. 184. though hee hath all things at commande­ment, doeth yet stand in these dayes in neede of one thing, obserued heretofore by a graue Bi­shop, viz. of a faithfull Counsellor alwayes at hand to tell him the trueth: for it may bee doubted, lest Rodericus E­piscopus Za­morae in spe­clo humanae vitae. lib. 2. cap. 3. now it happen, as it did in the sayd Bishoppes dayes, that from the highest to the lowest, euery one is giuen to soothe him vp: they tell him smooth tales, but many doe deceiue him: in these respects therefore this Examinate is of opinion, that the Popes proceedings may oftentimes be iustly misliked, and refused.

9. And to this purpose, this Examinate fur­ther Summa Syl­uest. in verbo obedientia num. 5. saith, that he is fully of Syluesters minde and iudgement, where he truely saith, and resolutely affirmeth, that if the Pope should command any thing that doth sapere peccatum, sauour of sin, were it but a veniall sinne, (the Pope supposing his commandement to be iust) he were not to be obeyed therein, when those that are so commanded by him, doe know his comman­dement to be vniust: that if by obeying the Pope it may be vehemently presumed, that great trouble will ensue to the state of the Church, or that some other [Page 7] euill or future scandall may thereby arise: the Pope in that case is not to be obeyed, although his commaunde­ment be enioyned to be obserued sub poenâ excommuni­cationis latae sententiae: vnder paine of excommu­nication ipso facto. And againe, that if the Pope should commaund a thing vnder paine of Excommuni­cation, ex cuius executione praesumitur scanda­lum animarum vel corporum futurum in ciuita­te; non est ei obediendum: by the execution where­of it is presumed that some detriment will insue in that citie, vnto the soules, or bodies of men: he is not therein to be obeyed;

10. Out of which the premisses (being well considered) this Examinate saith, that the State of ENGLAND weighed, as now it is, if the Pope vpon any instigation should excommunicate his Maiestie, depose him from his Crowne, release his Subiects from their obedience, and command them vnder paine of Excommunication to beare armes against him, &c. although he the said Pope were perswaded, that such his proceedings and commandements were iust: yet forasmuch as the Catholickes here in England of any vnderstan­ding, might easily perceiue and discerne, that such an Excommunication should sapere pecca­tum, or might vehemently be suspected, that it would procure a great perturbation of the state of the Church, or produce some other euill, or future scandall; and that the execution of it would bring with it (by presumption) a great de­triment or scandall to the soules or bodies of Ca­tholickes: [Page 8] they were not bound in those cases, to regard the said Excommunication, or any thing therein contained, at the least, to put the same in execution: it being a generall and a true rule, that Peters power was giuen him onely, ad aedificatio­nem, to edification: quod alijs verbes solet dici, claue non errante: which in other words is vsually said, the key not erring, as Salmeron hath well obserued: for as he further saith, if it be vsed in destructionem, Salmer. tom. 4. pag. 416. & 420. to destruction, non est potestas, aut potentia, sed impo­tentia, & defectus: hoc possumus, quod iure possumus: It is not ability or power, but impotencie and de­fect: wee can doe that, which we can iustly doe: as this Examinate hath written in his Letter to the Cardinall.

11 And with relation to the Popes humane intelligence, Syluester his positions, with the other circumstances and cautions mentioned, this Exa­minate saith, that he writ to Cardinall Bellarmine in this sort, viz. that the Pope hath no power to depose his Maiestie, quia inde perturbatio Ecclesiae, & euer sio Catholicorum nostrorum in bonis & posses­sionibus, & detrimenta plurimarum animarum proue­nirent: because the perturbation of the Church, and the ouerthrow of the Catholickes with vs, in their goods and possessions, and the da­mage of very many soules would thereby en­sue, And againe, Si Amplitudinis vestrae mitissi­ma dispositio vel minimâ ex parte conciperet rui­nas familiarum Catholicarum, quas inferret recu­satio iuramenti; certè non dissentiret à nobis, qui ex [Page 9] luctuosissimis spectaculis videmus, inde profecturam esse non modò iacturam animarum, sed etiam totius sta­tus Catholici apud nos lamentabilem extirpationem. That is, If your Amplitudes most milde disposition did but in the least part conceiue the ruines of Catholick fa­milies, which the refusall of that oath would bring vpon vs, surely you would not dissent from vs, who by most wofull spectacles do finde, that from thenee were like to proceede, not onely the hazard and losse of many soules, but the most lamentable extirpation of the whole Catho­plicke state amongst vs. And presently after, Deositie Regisnostri non esset, in ordine ad spiritualia promouen­da, sed euertenda: That is, the deposition of our King would not tend to the order of promoting matters spiri­tual, but of ouerthrowing them. Moreouer, Qui aequo oculo pericula nostra intueretur, facilè aduerteret, po­testatem summi Pontificis, in depositione Regis nostri, iam contineri non posse intra fines ordinis ad spiritualia subleuanda, sed excurrere ad supprimenda omnia, quae hactenus in spiritualibus benè posita fuerunt. That is, Who so should with an indifferent eye behold the dangers we are in, would easily perceiue, that the Popes power in deposing our King, cannot as the case standeth, be conteined within the bounds of any order for the ad­uancing of spirituall matters, but doeth rather breake forth to the suppressing of all, which hath beene hitherto well setled in things spirituall.

12. Now vpon these said grounds and some others, (needlesse then to haue bene sent to Rome) he this Examinate saith, that he doubteth not, but that all Catholickes in England might and [Page 10] may still take the said oath of Allegeance, there being no one clause in it, which, by the doctrine and exceptions here aboue mentioned, may not well and truely be iustified. Besides, this Exami­nate saith, hee did then chiefly stand vpon the grounds mentioned, because they were most per­spicuous and apparant, euen to the simplest sort of Catholicks, and were likely to find some good acceptation at Rome, the same being in euery branch of them agreeable to the doctrine, in this behalfe there allowed and maintained.

13 Of the insufficiencie of this answere, it was told him, he should afterwards heare more. In the meane time it being demanded of this Ex­aminate, why he himselfe, at the time that he tooke the said oath, did seeme to relie vpon his Maiesties speeches, deliuered in Parliament 19. of May 1603: whereas he had before taught the Romish Catholicks, and sent his reasons to Rome to that end, to prooue it to be lawfull for them to take that oath, without any such reference to his Maiesties speaches: he answering saith, 1. that before hee euer resolued any Catholicke of the lawfulnesse of that oath, he had heard of his Ma­iesties sayd speaches, though he did not alledge and specifie them to any, before he came him­selfe to take that oath. 2. that at his owne ta­king of the oath, he did in part relye vpon them, and so professed, because he supposed, that there­by he should stay some mens ouer hastie, and pre­cipitate conceits of his taking that oath, and sus­pend [Page 11] their opinions of his meaning therein, fore­seeing what great opposition was like to be made against him (as he touched in his sixth Exami­nation already in print) for yeelding thereunto, especially after the diuulging of the Popes first Breue, and some other letters, aduising all Catho­licks to the contrary. 3. that being in prison, he thought it his best course (if he could) both to satisfie the State, and to content the Catholicks; which made him to take hold of any fit occasion, that might auaile him to that end, doing nothing therein against the trueth, though he concealed by that meanes some part of it, which now hee perceiueth will bee drawen from him, to some mens dislike he feareth, but (as he hopeth) to Gods glory, the discharge of his conscience, and the good of all graue and moderate Catholicks.

14. Here, vpon occasion, because this Exami­nate found, that it was ascribed vnto him, as a fault, in that he being a prisoner should write to a man of Cardinall Bellarmines ranke, without no­tice first giuen thereof to the State: he was very earnest, before any more questions were deman­ded of him, that he might haue license to deliuer his mind in that behalfe. Which being yeelded vnto, he sayth: that being charged by the Cardi­nall to haue in a sort denied the Popes Supremacy, in that he tooke the oath of Allegeance: and ha­uing certaine places vrged against him to that purpose out of Leo and Saint Gregorie: foras­much as he this Examinate perceiueth thereby, [Page 12] that the said Cardinall did not distinguish betwixt the oath of the Kings Supremacy (so termed) made 1. Eliz. and the oath of Allegeanee set out 3. of his Maiestie; the first being ordeined for the abo­lishing altogether of the authoritie in causes Ec­clesiasticall, out of this Realme, and the second, without any relation at all to the former, onely seeking to preuent certaine inferences therein mentioned, which were supposed might ensue, by vertue of an Excommunication, and did tend to the great hazard, and endangering of his Ma­iesties person (as it is supposed) and to the mis­leading and ouerthrow of many of his Subiects: hee this Examinate thought himselfe bound in conscience to write an answere to the said Cardi­nall, as well for the clearing of himselfe in that point (he being readie, if he had twentie liues, to yeeld them all in defence of the Popes suprema­cie in causes Ecclesiasticall) as also for the satis­faction of so great a person, for whose hard opi­nion of him he would be right sorie. And there­fore touching his fact herein, if it be thought amisse of, he humbly craueth pardon.

15. Now as concerning the insufficiencie of this Examinates answere, touching his reasons sent to Rome, for the lawfulnesse of taking the oath of Allegeance, consisting of the Popes hu­mane intelligence subiect to errour, Syluesters reso­lutions, how no such course, as is pretended in the oath of Allegeance could bee vndertaken a­gainst his Maiestie by the Pope, (the present state [Page 13] of England considered) because the same should tend, not to edification but to destruction: it was told this Examinate, that all these points so well by him enlarged, did come farre short of the mea­ning of the said oath: because it is very vncer­taine, what the Romish Catholickes in England would doe, if the Pope should de facto proceede with his Maiestie, as some of his predecessours did with the late Queene of worthy memorie; which vncertaintie the State may not endure. For although the wiser, and more prouident sort of Romish Catholickes might in that case for a time draw backe: yet what the seduced multi­tude were like enough to doe, if they were able; that is to be foreseene and prouided for. Besides, it may well be doubted, what the said tempoti­zers would doe, if a fit opportunitie ferued them. Moreouer, of what force this conceite was to re­straine the late most horrible Traitours, Catesby, Garnet, and the rest, from their most barbarous and sauage designements, it is apparant. It is the trueth without colour, that must either direct mens consciences, or else it is but daubing with vntempered morter: nothing but mischiefe is to bee expected from them. Howbeit suppose the best of this deuise and euasion. If the Pope well assisted, did account and determine any extre­mitie to be vndertaken against his Maiestie, to be in ordine ad spiritualia, it is more then probable, that his word and iudgement would bee rather accepted of by the greater number, then that pri­uate [Page 14] mens exceptions and limitations would at such a time be able to preuaile, or be of any mo­ment. For the preuenting of all which kind of mischiefes, it is most apparant, that amongst o­ther respects for the preseruation of his Maiestie and the State, the said oath (vpon the said most barbarous occasion, that euer was giuen to any King, either heathen or Christian) was or­deined.

16 And therefore this Examinat being here required, that for the better contentment of the State in whose hands hee is, and for the trueth sake, wherewith God is honoured, he should o­pen his minde simply and plainely, why in wri­ting to the Cardinall, he telleth him, that he tooke the oath in this sense: Summum Pontificem non habere Imperialem & Ciuilem potestatem ad libi­tum, & ex suo appetitu deponendi Regem nostrum: That the Pope hath not an Imperiall and Ciuill power, to depose our King, when he pleaseth, and at his owne appetite: suggesting, that the said oath had no other meaning: and that this sense was thrice insisted vpon (before hee this Examinat tooke the said oath) and allowed of by the Ma­gistrate: whereas the words of the oath (which he this Examinat tooke, for ought that appea­red to the contrarie, without any equiuocation, or mentall euasion whatsoeuer) are cleare and manifest, viz. That the Pope neither of himselfe, nor by any authoritie of the Church or See of Rome, hath any power or authoritie to depose the King. The oath [Page 15] saith, that the Pope hath no power by any autho­ritie of the Church or See of Rome, viz: neither Imperiall, Ciuill, nor Ecclesiasticall, whereas this Ex­aminat telleth the Cardinall, that he onely sware against his Imperiall, and Ciuill power, whereby he might not so proceede with his Maiestie.

17. With these particular exceptions, this Examinate being somewhat troubled, desired a­gaine, that before he came to the answering of them, he might a little (as by the way) bewayle himselfe, and his present estate: which he did in manner as followeth, saying:

That it was no little griefe vnto him to be ap­prehended, and cast into prison; that thereupon he hoped his former troubles and oppositions a­gainst him would haue ceased: that notwith­standing, as matters are prosecuted, and his pro­ceedings interpreted, hee receiueth nothing but discomfort from each side: that his friendes might haue bene content, to haue expounded his oath in the best part, and the rather, because they perceiued hee found thereby, that he had giuen some reasonable contentmēt to the State, for the ease of his imprisonment (being an old man, and troubled with many bodily infirmities) and for the auoyding of some further extremities: that Cardinall Bellarmine might well haue forborne his Letter vnto him. as also his sharpe censures of him, as if by taking the said oath hee had fallen with Peter, in denying his Master, and with Mar­cellinus, who offered a false sacrifice, and that [Page 16] thereby he this Examinate had brought in question one of the chiefe heads of faith, and foundations of Ca­tholicke religion: that hee the said Cardinall might easily haue foreseene, that albeit there had beene no copies of his Letter taken, before it came to him this Examinate, yet that such a vigilant eye is had ouer him in prison, as that it is almost im­possible for him to haue kept it vndiscouered, especially there being such bruites of it cast a­broad, as there were, euen by those that should haue concealed it: that likewise the said Cardinall might not onely well haue thought, that if it happened his Letter to be diuulged, more hurt then good was likely thereof to ensue, except he thought it fit to bring him (this Examinate) into greater hatred, then he was before (which could not auaile the common cause) and to prouoke his Maiestie to some greater extremities, then of his most milde and temperate disposition he is in­clined vnto; but likewise that it was his this Exa­minates part in all duety to answere his Letter, which would be also (as it hath now fallen out) as impossible (his case considered) for him this Examinate to performe with any secrecie, as it was, that his the said Cardinals Letter should come vndiscryed vnto this Examinate: that as hee greatly suspecteth, the Cardinals said Letter was cunningly opened, before it came to his this Examinates hands; so he is perswaded, that his answere vnto it will be vsed in the like sort, be­fore it come to the Cardinall: and the rather he so [Page 17] thinketh, for that he findeth alreadie the copie of it by skill and practise, to be as soone published a­broad here in England, as this Examinate could dispatch it for Rome; which doth greatly perplexe him, and what may be the issue of it, he knoweth not, but feareth (as he saith) the worst at al hands: that notwithstanding, come what shall come, his hopes being past (which were neuer great) his libertie restrained, (neuer to be recouered) the graue expecting him (which he most desireth) no ioyes, nor comforts but in his blessed Sauiour, he is resolued with patience to expect and vnder­goe it: that these and many other such courses held with him, do oftentimes exceedingly grieue and trouble him, in that men abroad and at li­bertie, haue no more care of poore men, impri­soned for those causes, which they would seeme most earnestly to affect: and that thus hauing eased a litle his heart, and referring himselfe, and his cause to God, he will now addresse himselfe to answere all the partes of the obiection aboue mentioned, syncerely and truely from the bot­tome of his heart, as becommeth a true Catho­licke priest, and as he is perswaded in his consci­ence, without any equiuocation, or euasion, and without regard or feare of any mens persons, or of any inconuenience, or further danger, that might thereby ensue vnto him, or of any slan­derous imputations, which he doth easily foresee will be heaped vpon him, of purpose to discre­dite both him, and that which he findeth he must [Page 18] needes acknowledge, except he should wilfully denie the trueth, or shew himselfe obstinate and peruerse against lawfull authority, which his pre­sent estate, and conscience will not permit.

18 And therefore now as touching his this Examinats signification vnto Cardinall Bellar­mine, that the effect of his oath was: Summum Pontificem non habere Imperialem & ciuilem pote­statem ad libitum, & ex suo appetitu deponendi Re­gem nostrum: That the Pope hath not an Impe­riall and ciuill power to depose our King, when he pleaseth, and at his owne appetite: he will (as he saith) answere the same, not in grosse, but by degrees, saying first; That amongst diuers prero­gatiues attributed to the Pope in temporalibus in temporalties, this is one, which cannot be well denied by any, viz. that the Pope is truely lord of all the temporalties belonging to the Bishop­ricke of Rome. Within the compasse whereof there are some who haue included England and Ireland, and one especially, whose memorie this Examinate doth greatly honour: but yet he must needes acknowledge his ouersight in that point. Thus hee writeth: Without the approbation of the See Apostolicke, none can be lawfull King or Queene Admonit. to the Nobilitie by Card. Allen 1588. pag. 8. of England, by reason of the ancient accord, made be­tweene Alexander the third, the yeere 1171. and Henry the second, then King, when he was absolued for the death of Saint Thomas of Canterbury: that no man might lawfully take that Crowne, nor bee ac­counted as King, till hee were confirmed by the Soue­raigne [Page 19] Pastor of our soules, which for the time should be: this accord afterwards being renewed about the yeere 1210, by king Iohn, who confirmed the same by oath to Pandulphus the Popes Legate, at the special request and procurement of the Lords and Commons, as a thing most necessary, for preseruation of the Realme from vn­iust vsurpation of Tyrants, and auoyding other incon­ueniences, which they had proued, and might easily fall againe, by the disorder of some wicked king. Vnto this report, as it seemeth, and to some other idle conceits a Polonian of late hauing relation, and making mention of the purpose aforesaid, of king Henry the second, and of king Iohn, he wri­teth (this Examinate saith) in this sort, speaking of the Parliament, and of the oath of Allegeance: Illud impiè legislatores per iusiurandum extorquent à Stanisla. Cri­stanouie Exa­men Cathol. fol. 34. Catholicis, vt negent posse à Pontifice Regem deponi, & de ipsius Regnis & ditionibus disponi. Si enim hono­rariè & piè tributarium regnum Pontifici, quare dispo­nere, quare refractarium, & inobedientem Principem deponere nequit? That is, The law-makers doe im­piously by an oath extort this from the Catholicks, to de­nie that the King may be deposed by the Pope, and his kingdomes and countries by him disposed of. For if by an honourable and pious graunt, the kingdome haue be­come tributarie to the Pope: why may he not dispose of it? why may he not depose the Prince, being refracta­rie and disobedient?

19 Concerning the which aforesaid asserti­ons, touching both the said kings, this Examinate affirmeth, they are vntrue. Henry the second ne­uer [Page 20] made any such accord with Alexander the 3. as is aboue mentioned, for ought this Examinate could euer reade in any Chronicle of credite. He sware to Pope Alexander, that he (for his owne part) would not depart from him, or his succes­sors, Ro. Houeden Annal fol. 303 quamdiu ipsum sicut Regem Catholicum habue­rint: so long as they should entreate him as a Ca­tholicke king. And touching king Iohn, inasmuch as his fact that way is of some more probabilitie, but of as little trueth, and that from the said re­portes of them both, Stanislaus Cristanouic doth inferre, that the Pope may depose his Maie­stie, being but a tributarie King vnto him; he this Examinate, by taking his oath, that the Pope had no Imperiall, or Ciuill power ouer the king, to depose him, did thereby discharge his conscience, for the iustifying of a trueth against the said false reports; that of king Iohn being as vn­true as the former. Which this Examinate saith he doth the more boldly affirme, because he hath one of no small account, (in that he died for the Popes supremacie) to take his part therein: be­sides some other rules of regalitie in that behalfe. Thus Sir Thomas More writeth against the au­thor of the Beggers Supplication, in king Henry the 8. time: If he (the authour of that supplication) Sir Tho. More supplic of soules pag. 296. say, as indeede some writers say, that king Iohn made England and Ireland tributarie to the Pope and the See Apostolike, by the grant of a thousand markes: wee dare surely say againe, that it is vntrue, and that all Rome neither can shew such a grant, nor neuer could: [Page 21] and if they could, it were nothing worth: For neuer could any king of England giue away the Realme to the Pope, or make the land tributarie, though he would. And this to bee agreeable to this Examinates owne iudgement, hee doeth acknowledge (as he saith) with all his heart; hoping that the same shal no way preiudice his constant resolution, as tou­ching the Popes supremacie, nor offend any that loueth the Crowne and State of England.

20 And as concerning his relying vpon his Maiesties words, in the sense, approoued by the Ma­gistrate, when he this Examinate tooke the oath of Allegeance, and insinuating to Cardinall Bellar­mine, that the summe of it was accordingly: Summum Pontificem non habere Imperialem & ci­uilem potestatem ad libitum, & ex suo appetitu de­ponendi Regem nostrum: that the Pope hath not an Imperiall and ciuill power to depose our King, when he pleaseth, and at his owne appetite: he ho­peth likewise to giue therein some reasonable contentment. For which purpose he saith, it is to be obserued, that there is an opinion long since broached by the Canonists, which hath begun of later times to be more stiffely, and with greater heate prosecuted and maintained, then hereto­fore, concerning the Popes authoritie in causes temporall: the authors whereof doe with great confidence affirme, that the Pope is as directly Lord of the whole world in temporalibus, in tem­poralties, as hee is the head of the vniuersall Church in spiritualibus, in matters spirituall: and [Page 22] that hee hath directly as souereigne an authoritie, in respect of such his worldly dominion, ouer all Emperours, Kings, and Princes, to dispose of them and their kingdomes, when occasion shall require; as hee hath, in regard of his spirituall su­premacie, ouer all Bishops and Cleargie men, to aduance and depriue them, when hee thinketh it conuenient, and that they deserue it. The chiefe patrons of this opinion are noted by Cardinall Bellarmine to be these, Augustinus Triumphus, Al­uarus [...] Pelagius, Hostiensis, Panormitane, and Sylue­ster: to whom this Examinate doeth adde, Hen­ricus Gandauensis, Redericus Sancius, Alexander Alen­sis, Celsus Mancinus, Tho. Bozius, Franciscus Bozius, Isidorus Mosconius, Card Baronius, Laelius Zecchus, and Alexander Carerius, who nameth diuers o­thers as principall defenders of that opinion; and [...] is himselfe so violent therein, as hee doeth in ef­fect anathematize all, that do oppose themselues against it, not sparing Cardinall Bellarmine him­selfe: against whom, forasmuch as his drift is principally, throughout his whole booke, hee was much to blame (this Examinate thinketh) to entitle it to be written aduersus impios politicos, & nostritemporis haereticos, against the wicked poli­tickes & hereticks of our time. With this Carerius, [...] such as are on that side doe resolutely concurre: insomuch as they doubt not (this Examinat con­sesseth) to renew againe the long disliked, and im­pugned assertions of the old Canonists, and to pub­lish them now vnto the world more eagerly, then [Page 23] heretofore (as aboue he hath touched) for sound and Catholicke doctrine; they saying:

21 That Dauid did foretell, that the Priesthood of [...] Anno 57. pag. 432. Christ, should be according to the order of Melchise­dech: That when Christ, being a King and a Priest, receiued all iudgement of the Father, that is, most full iudiciall power: hee ioyning the same with his priest­hood, did institute in the Church a Regall priesthood, Bar. Ibidem pag. 433. translating in suos, (that is, to S. Peter and his suc­cessours) all the power hee had of his father: That Franc Bezi­us de temporall Ecclesiae Mo­narchia, in praesat. ad Cle­men. S. except there should bee one supreme Monarch in the Church in all things, the vnitie of the Church could not be preserued: for seeing the Church, by diuine in­stitution, doth consist of a Kingdome, and a Priesthood; is it were otherwise, there should bee in the same abso­lutely one Monarch of the Kingdome, and another of the Priesthood: That if, for the auoiding of the dissen­sions about sacred causes, one supreme head is appointed; why not in the same maner of the Kingdome, that there should bee one and the same head both of the Kingdome and Priesthood, lest in like sort there should be dissension betwixt them? that therfore it is the rather to be held, that Peter doeth supply Christs place, not onely in the Priesthood, but in the Kingdome, that he might bee a King and likewise a Priest, according to the order of Melchisedech, who was both a King and a Priest.

22 That if Christ be King of kings, and Lord of Tho. Bozius de iure status praefat. ad Al­dehrard. lords; in like sort the Church must be Queene and Lady; and if he be the Lord of all temporalities, shee likewise must be the Lady: That all temporall regall power doeth reside first in the soule of Christ, and then in the Idem ibi­dem. [Page 24] Church his spouse, the Queene of the world, and from her is deriued to others, (faithfull or infidels) as out of a fountaine: That the Church, the spouse of Christ and Idem lib. 1. cap. 6 sol. 36. Queene of the world, may as oft as the order of the whole doeth require, &c. transferre the proper rights of one vnto another, as a secular Prince may cast downe priuate mens houses, for the beautifying of the Citie, or impose tribute, for the weale publike; that he may thus iustly doe, although he hath not erred, from whom such rights are transferred vnto another: so the Pope gaue the Spaniards the Indians: That the Pontificall and Isidor. Mos­con. de ma­iest. milit. Eccle. pag. 91. Idem pag. 656. Regall power, and all other powers are most plentifull in the Pope, and doe reside in the Pontificall dignitie: that all Dominions whatsoeuer doe depend vpon the Church, and vpon the Pope, as the head of the Church: and that in the Pope, authoritie is considered, in Em­perours, Idem pag. 670. and Kings power, and thence it is, that pow­er doeth depend vpon authoritie.

23 That true, iust, ordeined by God, and meere Carer. de po­test. Rom. Pon­ti. pag. 9. dominion, aswell in spirituall things as in temporall, was brought foorth by Christ, and the same was com­mitted to S. Peter and his successours: That Christ Idem pag. 111. was Lord ouer all inferiours, not onely as God, but like­wise as man, hauing euen then dominion in the earth; and that therefore, as the dominion of the world was in Christ both diuine and humane, so it must be confessed, that it was in the Pope, his Vicar: That as God in a secondarie maner, may bee called a temporall ruler and Idem pag. 112. Monarch of the world, although in himselfe, hee is not principally worldly, or temporall: so the Pope may be cal­led a temporall Lord, and Monarch, although his power [Page 25] be a certaine spirituall thing: That the mysterie of Idem pag. 120. redemption being accomplished, Christ as a king, gaue vnto Peter the administration of his kingdome, and S. Peter did execute that his power against Ananias and Saphira: That Christ as hee is man, is directly Idem pag. 124. the Lord ouer all the world in temporalties, and that therefore the Pope is so likewise, in that he is his Vicar: That the supreme power of iudging all, and the top of Idem pag. 126. dignities, and the height of both powers are found in Christs vicar.

24 That there is one principalitie, and one su­preme Rodericus Sancius apud Carer. pa. 132. Prince ouer all the world, who is Christs vicar, according to that of Daniel, chap. 8. He hath giuen him power, and honour and rule, and all people and tongues shall serue him: and that in him there­fore is the fountaine and spring of all principalitie, and from him all other powers doe flow: That the Bishop of Idem ibidem pag. 131. 132. Rome in place of Christ is set as a Prince ouer the whole world in spiritualties and temporalties, and that it is naturally, morally, and by the law of God to be held with a right faith, that the principalitie of the Bishop of Rome is the true, and onely immediate principalitie of the whole world, not onely as touching things spiritu­all, but likewise temporall; and that the Imperiall prin­cipalitie is depending vpon it, as being mediate, mini­steriall, and instrumentall, ministring and seruing it; and that it is ordeined and instituted by it; and at the commandement of the Papall principalitie is moouea­ble, reuocable, corrigible, and punishable.

25 That as the diuine and humane dominion were Carerius de potest. Rom. Pont. pag. 150. in Christ: so in Christs stead the dominion of the world [Page 26] in the Pope, is both spirituall and temporall, diuine and humane: That the vnremooueable trueth doeth designe, Idem pag. 151. by Peters onely comming vpon the water to Christ, that the whole dominion, which is signified by the Sea, is committed to S. Peter and his successors. And that as the Pope cannot say, that he is not Christs vicar vp­on Idem pag. 155. earth, so he cannot deny, but that he is Lord ouer all things, because the earth is the Lords and the fulnesse thereof, whereby all things, heauenly, earthly, and in­fernall are subiect vnto Christ the Lord: and thence it is, that he did commit vnto the Pope (who doeth supply his place vpon earth) the right of the heauenly and ter­rene Empire. That the Pope by the Law of God hath Iael. Zecchan tract. Theolog. pag. 81. power and temporall dominion ouer the whole world: that the same is prooued by the words of Luc. 22. Be­hold, here are two swords, which signifie the pow­er temporall and spirituall: and because Christ, whose vicar the Pope is, hath both powers, according to the words, Matth. vlt. All power is giuen vnto me in heauen and in earth; That thence it may be deduced, that the Pope is absolutely the Lord of all the Christian world; and Kings and Christian princes are to acknow­ledge, that they holde of him their Empires and king­domes, and all that are faithfull ought to be subiect vn­to him: And that as oft as such princes doe any great hurt in the Church, the Pope may depriue them of their kingdomes, and transferre their right to others.

26 It is here to be obserued, of what great re­putation in Rome and Italy the authors are, whose opinions this Examinate doeth dislike. For to o­mit Baronius the late Cardinall, Francis Bozius his [Page 27] booke was approued in Rome very authentically to be printed; as conteining nothing in it aduerse to the Catholicke faith: and with the like appro­bation, the booke of Thomas Bozius was printed in Rome: and so was that of Celsus Mancinus. Mos­conius his booke was printed at Venice, before the stirres betwixt them and the Pope: and the tra­ctate of Laelius Zecchus was printed at Brixia. Ca­rerius a Doctor of Padua, had his booke approo­ued at Padua, though it was afterwards printed at Colein. Whereupon it was thought meete, by the Examiner, (for whom it was thought as law­full, to obiect what he thought fit, as sor Master Blakwell to frame his owne answeres, according to his owne minde) to offer vnto his further con­sideration sundry other speeches of his said au­thors, and some others of the like authoritie, the same being as pertinent to his purpose, as the for­mer by himselfe alledged; where they say, as fol­loweth:

27 That the supreme Iurisdiction temporall Franc. Bozi­us de tempo­rali Ecclesiae Monarchia. lib. 1. cap. 3. fol. 52. Idem lib. 1. cap. 7. fol. 98. throughout all the world, doeth belong to S. Peters suc­cessors: so as one and the same is the Hierarch and Mo­narch in all things: That Christ left the Church to be gouerned by the best forme of gouernment: but the best forme of gouernment is the absolute Monarchie, euen in all temporall things; therefore Christ left his Church so to be gouerned: That the keyes of heauen Idem lib. 2. cap. 14. Idem lib. 3. cap. 1 fol. 394. were giuen to Peter; therfore of all the earth: That the right of dominion, and prelation of infidels may iustly, by the sentence and ordination of the Church, [Page 28] be taken away; because Infidels, by reason of their in­fidelitie, do deserue to lose their power ouer the faith­full: That the Church hath receiued that power ouer Idem ibidem cap. 14 fol. 530. nations, which Christ according to his humane nature receiued of the Father: but Christ receiued absolutely of the Father all power in temporalibus; therefore the Church likewise receiued it by participation of his fulnesse: That the supreme power coactiue in all Idem ibidem cap. 16. fol. 537. temporall things belongeth to Ecclesiasticall persons, by the diuine lawe, reuealed and expressed in the Scrip­tures: That kings anointed with holy oyle are called Idem fol. 676. Idem lib. 5. fol. 823. as vassals of the Church: That by reason of the su­preme Monarchie in all things, temporall lawes may be made by the Church, and kingdomes taken away for iust causes.

28. That kings and principall Seculars are not immediatly of GOD, but by the interposition of holy Tho. B [...]zius de iure status, lib. 1. cap. 6. fol. 37. Idem ibidem fol 52. Idem lib. 3. cap. 5. fol. 277. Church, and of her chiefe Bishops: That warlike and militarie compulsiue power is giuen to the Church ouer kings and princes: That if it be found sometimes, that certaine Emperours haue giuen some temporalties to the highest Bishops, as Constantine gaue vnto Sylue­ster, this is not to bee vnderstood, that they gaue any thing which was their owne, but restored that which was vntustly, and tyrannically taken from the said Bi­shops: That Christ committed to Saint Peter (the carrier of the keyes of eternall life) the right both of the Idem lib. 4. cap. 1. fol. 319. terrene, and celestiall Empire, as Pope Nicholas saith; from whom we haue it, that he is without doubt an he­reticke, that taketh away the rights of the terrene and celestiall Empire, committed by Christ to the Church of [Page 29] Rome, and saith it is lawfull so to doe; and for that he shall be an hereticke in such his assertions.

29 That the Pope is called vniuersall iudge, king Isidor. Mosc. de maiest mili­tant. Ecclesiae. pag. 27. Idem pag 77. Idem. pag. 95. of kings, and lord of lords: That the Pope is consecra­ted, as the great Priest, and crowned as a king, because he hath both powers: That the Pope doeth vse his power after two sorts, either absolutely or ordinarily; absolutely, when he derogateth from lawes, in abolishing them; ordinarily, when he vseth lawes. Whence this rule is giuen, that the Pope vseth the Counsell of his Cardinalles, when he will liue by his lawes: But if hee will vse the plenitude of his power, then he disposeth of matters, without the Counsell of his Cardinals, sith his power is of God, and not of the Colledge of Cardinals: That not onely all faithfull people, but likewise Infi­dels, Idem pag. 96 and euery naturall creature is subiect to the com­mandement of the Pope; he is to bee worshipped of all men: and for this cause he receiueth of all the faithfull adorations, prostrations, and kissings of his feete: That Idem pag. 92. vnto the Pope, as to the Pastor of the Church, and the Bishop of that holy See, and by reason of his Dominion, and excellencie, is giuen adoratio duliae, the worship giuen to Images and Saints: That the Bishop of Idem pag. 99. Rome in signe of his Empire and kingdome, doth vse vpon his head a Regall Diademe, and in token of his Priesthood and Pontificall Maiestie, a Miter: That Idem pag. 677. Emperors and Kings may bee compelled to keepe their oathes taken in their coronation and confirmation, in that by vertue of such an oath, they are made the Popes subiects.

30 That by the law of God and nature, the Priest­hood [Page 30] doeth ouer-top the Empire: and both Iurisdicti­ons Henrie Gan­dauen. apud Carer. pag. 128 ouer spiritualties and temporalties, and the imme­diate execution likewise of them both, depend vpon the Priesthood, both by the law of God and of nature: That Antoninus a­pud Carer. pag. 130. they which say, the Pope hath dominion ouer all the world in spiritualties, but not in temporalties, are like the Counsellers of the king of Syria, who said: The Gods of the mountaines are their gods: and therefore they haue ouercome vs: let vs fight with them in the plaines and valleyes, where their gods dwel not, and we shall preuaile against them. 3. Reg. 20. That the sonne of God hath decla­red the altitude of the Ecclesiasticall power, being as it Aug. Triumph. apud Carer. pag. 130. were founded vpon a rocke, to be aboue all principalitie and power; that vnto it all knees should bee bowed of things, in heauen, in earth, and vnder the earth, or in Idem ibidem pag. 132. hell: That secular powers were not necessarie, but that Princes might performe that, through terrour of discipline, which the Priest cannot effect by power of doctrine: and that therefore, if the Church could pu­nish euill men, Imperiall and secular principalitie were not necessarie, the same being included potentially, in the principalitie Apostolicall.

31 That there are diuers powers of men giuen by Carer. de pot. Rom. Pont. pag. 142. God, and diuerse authorities, all which doe depend vpon the highest authoritie (meaning the Popes) and thence as the starres from the sunne doe receiue their light: That the Imperiall power, concerning the ad­ministration Idem pag. 145. of temporall matters, doeth proceed from the Pontificall power, as the light of the Moone doeth from the light of the sunne: That as God is the su­preme Idem pag. 150. [Page 31] Monarch of the world, and the gouernour of all temporalties, productiuè & gubernatiuè, by produ­cing and gouerning them, though of himselfe he be not temporall and of the world: so it must be confessed, that although his Vicar the Pope hath originally, and of himselfe the dominion ouer all temporalties: yet he hath it not by immediate execution, but doeth by his vni­uersall Iurisdiction commit the same vnto the Empe­rour: That the Bishop of Rome is the highest father Idem pag. 152. and man of the world, and the vniuersall Vicar and Lord of the world, and that all others doe depend vpon him, as their builder, and that otherwise, if one should place the Emperour by himselfe, in respect of his tem­poralties, he should grant two beginnings, which were heresie: That the Empire of Rome, before it was Idem pag. 161. conuerted to Christ, was a Dominion vsurped and ty­rannicall, because the true dominion was in the line of Christ: That the Emperour is the Popes minister: for Idem ibidem. God did appoint him, tanquam summi sacerdotis ministrum, to be as a minister of the highest Priest: That the Imperiall power doth depend vpon God, by the Idem pag. 162. & 163. interposition of his Vicar, to make it complete and for­mall, and that the Emperour ought so to receiue it: That no King or Emperour hath Iurisdiction, or domi­nion, Idem pag. 172. but from Christ, and by consequence can haue none at all, but from his Vicar.

32 That in the highest Bishop, both the powers and [...]ls. Mancinus lib. 3. cap. 1. & Carer. pag. 133. Iurisdictions are, spirituall and temporall, and that as he is the most eminent person of all men in spirituall power, so is he in temporall: so that it may lawfully bee affirmed of Christs Vicar, by a certaine similitude, that [Page 32] Plato in Timaeus said of God: asking in Timaeus, what was God: he answereth, he is not a man, nor hea­uen, nor good, but something better: if one aske whe­ther the highest Bishop be a Duke, a king, an Emperor, or a Prince, he shall answere warily, if by denying hee affirme, the Pope to be quid praestantius, quidue emi­nentius, some thing more excellent and more eminent. That the Bishop of Rome is called Papa of Papae an Isidor. Mos­con pag. 22. interiection of admiration: because his dignitie and power is admirable to all men, and is as it were the a­mazement of the world, according to the glosse, in the proeme of the Clementines, where it is read in these words, Papa stupor mundi, non Deus, non homo, sed vtrumque: the Pope is the wonderment of the world, not God, nor man, but both. That the Pope Ibidem. doeth execute ordinarily his iurisdiction (temporall) in S. Peters patrimonie, but casually in all kingdomes: That the holy historiographer in the old lawe, made the Idem pag 63. priesthood an adiectiue to the kingdome; but S. Peter made the kingdom an adiectiue to the priesthood: That if we will follow the phrase of Scriptures, and attend the Greeke copie, and that tongue: it must needs be con­fessed, Idem pag. 66. that our Sauiour Iesus in those words: Feede, Feede, Feede my sheepe, did ordeine his vicar, and committed vnto him temporall and spirituall power: That all temporall Iurisdict on must be exercised, not Idem pag 80. at the Popes commandement, but at his becke. Princes will, charge, command; God who is lord of all, doeth by his becke command, according to that saying.

Dixcrat & nutu totum tremefecit Olympum: And that Christ had ful Iurisdiction ouer all the world, Idem pag. 85. [Page 33] and all creatures, and therefore the Pope his vicar, hath so.

33 With the offring of these speeches to this Examinates consideration, he was much offen­ded, saying, that now he perceiueth, it is more sought to bring him into hatred, then to make proofe of his true Allegeance: because these things are onely produced in scorne of his Hol. (as he conceiueth) in defence of whose Suprema­cie in spirituall causes, he is readie to yeeld his life: and therefore answered plainely, that he thought himselfe very hardly dealt with in this point. But reply being made, that his said offence taken, and discontentment thereupon vttered seemed very strange, how it was come to passe with him, that those things which are published to the world by so many, and with so great an appro­bation in Rome, to no other end, but that all the world should take notice of them, so much dis­quiet and trouble him, by the very repetition of them.

34 Wherunto this Examinate saith, that the repeating of the said speaches doeth not so much moue him, as the drift whereat they aime. For if that which is sufficient might giue contentment, (these speaches, produced out of the authors by him cited, agreeing in effect, with that which he himselfe had alledged out of them) he did before declare his opinion of them; when hee termed them, the long-since disliked and impugned assertions of the Canonists: and more (he saith) by the offe­ring [Page 34] of them to his consideration, cannot well be required of him, it being no way apperteining a­ny more vnto him, to censure the flatterers of the Pope, then of Kings and Princes, who to please them, doe oftentimes no doubt say more then is true. Whereupon he addeth, that whatsoeuer he did cite out of the said authors, he did it with much griefe, and would not so farre haue enlar­ged himselfe therein, had he not conceiued, that his Maiestie had an especiall respect vnto this o­pinion of the Popes direct authoritie in tempora­libus, so highly aduanced aboue all kings and Emperours, when hee vsed in Parliament these wordes in effect: viz. that by the doctrine of the Popes supremacie he (the said Pope) doth not onely claime to be spirituall head of all Christians, but also to haue an Imperiall Ciuill power ouer all Kings and Emperours, dethroning and decrowning princes with his foote, as pleaseth him, and dispensing and dispo­sing of all kingdomes and Empires at his appetite: and that another point, which they (meaning the Ca­tholicks) obserue in continuall practise, is the assassi­nates and murthers of kings, thinking it no sinne, but rather a matter of saluation, to doe all actions of rebel­lion and hostilitie against their naturall Soueraigne Lord, if he be once cursed, his subiects discharged of their fidelitie, and his kingdome giuen a praye to their three crowned Monarch. Through the which his Maiesties speach, this Examinate did verily think, that the oath of Allegeance was ordeined, to meete with such mischiefes, as the Parliament [Page 35] supposed (according to his Maiesties said words) to be dangerous consequences of this forenamed opinion: which hee this Examinate signified, when hee tooke that oath, and mentioned (as is aforesaid) in his letter to the Cardinall. Wherein he seeth not (as he saith) what iust offence can be taken, in that he told the Cardinall, how he had sworne, that the Bishop of Rome had no Imperiall and Ciuil power, to depose at his pleasure the kings Maiestie. For as he then sware, so he doth now constantly affirme, that he holdeth the opinion before spoken of, concerning the Popes direct Dominion, and supreme authoritie ouer all the world in temperalibus, to be vntrue, notwithstan­ding the peremptory resolution, and vehemency shewed by the authors of it, affirming (but false­ly) that it is the more common opinion of Di­uines, to be held by the law of God cum recta fide, with a right faith.

35 But here it being obiected, that although the said oath was framed to meete with the opi­nion before by him mentioned; yet that this his restraining of it thereunto, doeth not attaine to that, which he knew was intended by it. For in his said letter to the Cardinall he doth cite sun­dry authors, which speake of another kinde of authoritie, ascribed to the Pope, and tending by a nice distinction to this effect: that in ordine ad spiritualia, in order to things spirituall, and indi­rectly all kings and princes, with their kingdomes and countries, are subordinate, and subiect vnto [Page 36] him; insomuch as if he see cause, and that kings and princes will not be aduised by him, in mat­ters of the Church apperteining to their saluati­on, he may not onely Excommunicate them, but proceeding by degrees, depose them, absolue their subiects from their oathes of Allegeance, and rightfully commaund them (if neede be) to beare armes against them: which is as lewd and traiterous an opinion, as the former, and doeth tend to the same end with it, though vnder diuers pretences. So as if hee tooke the oath, but with relation onely to the first opinion, leauing him­selfe free as touching the second, it was all one, as if he had not taken it at all: and therefore be­ing pressed to cleare this point, he answereth, as hereafter followeth.

36 First, he doth acknowledge the obiection to be very pertinent, and rightly collected out of his letter, confessing this second opinion, not to come behinde the first, either for the earnestnesse of those, that defend it, or for their learning and sufficiencie, being such indeede, as doe in credite farre ouersway the estimation of their opposites. Cardinall Bellarmine himselfe hath laboured much in it, and these authors following doe ioyne with him in that point, Henricus, Iohannes Driedo, Io­hannes de Turre crematâ, Albertus Pighius, Thomas Waldensis, Petrus de Palude, Cardinall Caietane, Franciscus Victoria, Dominicus Soto, Nicolaus San­derus: to which number this Examinate saith, he could adde diuers others, as Martinus Aspilcueta, [Page 37] Couarruuias, &c. Of which opinion Cardinall Bellarmine saith, that it is communis sententia Catho­licorum Theologorum: the common opinion of Catholicke Diuines: albeit Alexander Carerius, and Rodericke Sancius doe affirme as much for the other. In this number, this Examinate confes­seth, that he did range himselfe in his late letter to the said Cardinall, as inclining rather to his side, then to the other: being notwithstanding bound to neither of them, vpon any danger of declining from the Catholicke faith. So as if now hee vse his libertie therein as touching his Maiestie, hee hath (as he supposeth) Cardinall Bellarmine him­selfe for his author therein.

37 For where there is this clause in the oath of Allegeance, I doe further sweare, that I doe from my heart detest and abiure, as impious and hereticall, this damnable doctrine and position; that Princes which be excommunicated or depriued by the Pope, may be de­posed, or murthered by their Subiects, or any other whatsoeuer: Cardinall Bellarmine saith, that it was neuer heard of ab intio nascentis Ecclesiae vsque ad haec nostra tempora, vt vllus Pontifex Maximus Prin­cipem vllum quamuis haereticum, quamuis Ethnicum, quamuis persecutorem caedi mandauerit: from the first birth of the Church, vnto these our times, that any Pope euer commaunded any prince, though an heretick, though an Ethnicke, though a persecuter, to be slaine: And that therefore the feare which is pretended of the Kings life (if the Bishop of Rome had the same authoritie in En­gland, [Page 38] which hee hath in other Christian king­domes) is vaine, and that all pretences tending that way, are but stratagemata Satanae, the deceits of Sathan. The which affirmations of the Car­dinals being true, the same for ought this Exami­nate seeth, doe iustifie the said part of the oath by him taken, euen the very same, which of all other parts in it, is most misliked by many Ca­tholickes in England. For it must needs be gran­ted generally, that were it not in respect of the Popes excommunication of Kings and princes, his deposing of them from their Crownes, and his absoluing of their subiects from their Alle­geance, it could neuer be lawfull for any of them to rise vp against their lawfull kings and Soue­raignes vnder whom they were borne. And it is all one (in this Examinats iudgment) for the Pope to command a king to be murthered, as to doe, and commaund that, whereby the same is by o­thers of duetie to be effected. And then it fol­loweth out of the Cardinals words, that it can ne­uer be lawfull by the Popes authoritie, either di­rect or indirect, for any subiect (vpon any pre­tence whatsoeuer, or vnder the countenance of any authoritie, to excommunicate, and depose Kings, or absolue their Subiects from their Al­legeance) to lay violent hands vpon his Soue­reigne, which is in effect that part of the oath a­boue mentioned, whereunto this Examinate did sweare.

38 Furthermore, because it was againe tolde [Page 39] this Examinate, that this his last answere to part of the said oath, stood after a sort but vpon an inference of the Cardinals meaning, and was no way sufficient to satisfie the aforesaid obiection; hee this Examinate renued his former desire of proceeding by such degrees, as hee himselfe thought most fit, for the discharge of his duety both to God and his Maiestie: and thereupon saith; that he beleeueth in his conscience, that the Pope is S. Peters successour, and the head of the Catholick Church: and that although materiall and worldly keyes may open and shut, vpon fa­uour and friendship; yet the keyes of the king­dome of heauen doe respect no mens persons, be they poore or rich, noble or ignoble, high or low, kings or subiects: so as in his iudgement none may be exempted from the Popes Excom­munication, when there is iust cause (vpon due consideration of all circumstances) to inflict it: adding thereunto, that hee holdeth it to be the duety of all Christian kings and princes, to sub­mit themselues in causes of religion to the Bishop of Rome, as vnto their chiefe Bishop and Pastor of their soules. Which profession thus made, this Examinate desired, that one point in his for­mer Examination published in print, might here be receiued, as part of his answere to the obiecti­on aboue specified. Sect. 16.

39 For there this Examinat (as he truly saith) M Blakwels Exam. pag. 18, 19. Being vrged to explicate himselfe, touching the sence he relied vpon, out of his Maiesties words, [Page 40] when he took the oth of Allegeance, in that it was said, hee might so vnderstand them, as not with­standing his oath, that dutie which was expected, was no way satisfied: because his Maiesties mea­ning was euident, that hee did account it to pro­ceed from appetite and rashnesse in any of the Bishops of Rome whosoeuer, who presuming to Excommunicate any King, should by the same either absolue his Subiects from their obedience, or excite them to beare Armes against him, or authorize them to lay violent hands vpon his person, or to stirre vp any sedition or tumult with­in his Kingdom, or to assist any that should make such attempts either against the King, or the State of the Kingdome: he this Examinate an­swereth now, as he answered then for the fur­ther opening of his meaning, saying, his iudge­ment is, that no lawfull Excommunication (ter­med either Excommunicatio maior, the grea­ter Excommunication, or Ecclesiasticall curse of Anathematization) can produce such effects, or ought to enforce the same; and that hee agreeth therein with many sound Catholike writers (as he thinketh) and particularly with these follow­ing: and so drawing out his pocket-notes (as oft, vpon sundry occasions he did) hee caused their words to bee set downe for the better declarati­on [Page 41] of his duetie. Excommunicatio non nisi excom­municatum facere potest, ea (que) fulminatur in Principes, non vt tyranni fiant, ne (que) vt suis ditionibus remouean­tur, ne (que) vt subiectis laxentur habene, vel juratâ fide liberentur: That is, An Excommunication can but make a man Excommunicate: and it is thundred a­gainst Princes, not to the end, that they should thereby become tyrants, or bee remooued from their Domini­ons, or that the ruines should be loosed vnto Subiects or they bee freed from the oath of their fidelitie. Ludou, Richeome in Apologet. pa 175. And againe Soto Medina in pri­mam secundae pag. 513. q 96. art. 4. saith, as Medina doeth alleadge him; Quod Ex­communicatio non est priuatio alicuius boni proprij, quod transgressor legis prius posseder at: sed est priuatio bonorum communium, quae ab Ecclesia crat percep­turus, vt communionis spiritualis, & receptionis Sa­cramentorum: That is, Excommunication is not the priuation of any proper or peculiar good, whereof the transgressor of the law was formerly possessèd: but of those common benefits, which hee should haue reaped from the Church, as of the spirituall Communion, and receiuing of the Sacraments. And S. Thomas saith: Tho. Aquin. se­cunda secuudae. q. 11. art. 3. Aliud est Excommunicatio, & aliud Eradicatio: Excommunication is one thing, and Eradication another: which is set downe in the Canon Law of an Epistle of Pope Vrbane, where it is said: Liquidò apparet, aliud esse excommunicationem, aliud eradicationem. Qui enim excommunicatur (vt Apo­stolus Decret. 2. parte caus. 24. q. 3. cap. 37. ait) ad hoc excommunicatur, vt spiritus eius salnus fiat in die Domini. Disciplina enim est Excom­municatio, & non eradicatio. That is; It doeth [Page 42] plainely appeare, that Excommunication is one thing, and Eradication another. For he which is Excommu­nicated, is (as the Apostle saith) to this end Excommu­nicated, that his soule may bee saued in the day of the Lord. For Excommunication is a correction, and not an extirpation. So as this Examinate here saith, that for as much as hee hath before acknowled­ged, that the Kingdome of England, is no part of the Popes possessions, nor any more subiect vn­to him, then other Christian Kingdomes are: that the Pope hath no Imperiall or Ciuill authori­tie to depose his Maiestie: and that the Popes Excommunication (which is the chiefe censure of his spirituall authoritie) can bring foorth no such effects, as are supposed in the said oath of Alleageance, viz. neither deposition, eradicati­on, absolution of Subiects from their obedience, nor any sufficient warant either to rebel, or to lay violent hands vpon any King: he this Examinat is perswaded, that litle more can bee required at his hands, in answere of the said maine obiecti­on, touching the sense of that oath, according to the effect of his Maiesties speeches, insinuated (as is aboue said) by him this Examinate vnto the Cardinall.

40 Before the further pressing of the insuffi­ciencie of all that hitherto he hath saide for the clearing of the said obiection, Sect. 35. for as much as in his last speeches, touching Excom­munication, hee said that Excommunication could bring forth no such fruits as he there reci­ted: [Page 43] it was demanded of him, how that his as­sertion could agree with these points of Popish doctrine, published by a classicall author of the Romish sect; where hee laboureth to prooue by sundry reasons, that Henry. 3. being king of France stood diuerse yeeres excommunicated, before he was murthered, as hauing committed many of­fences, which were subiect ipso iure to diuerse Ex­communications, as namely that of the Bull Coenae Dominicae: some of which faults he setteth downe to be these following: shewing the saide king to haue bene excommunicated ipso facto, for De Iusta abdic, Hen. 3. l. 2. cap. 35. euery one of them: for example, 1. quod haereti­cis fauebat. 2. quod 8imoniacus. 3. quod cum haereticis (Reginâ Angliae & Nauarro) foedus inierat. 4. quod bona Ecclesiae, Pontifice inconsulto, occupauerat, &c. 1. for that hee was a fauourer of hereticks. 2. for that he was a Simonist. 3. for that he had entered into league with hereticks, (the Queene of Eng­land, and the Nauarrian.) 4. for that without the Popes priuitie he had seized the possessions of the Church. Whereupon after many other dis­courses and allegations of Scriptures, fathers, hi­stories, and what not, he falleth vpon this con­clusion, that the said king was lawfully murthe­red, before any Excommunication of him was published, saying, Non percipit formulam publicus Ibid. lib. 4. c. 2. dolor: Common griefe is not capable of forme. And that albeit in occulto crimine in a hidden crime no man ought to bee condemned indictâ causâ, or before he be cited and called: yet in pub­lique [Page 44] and notorious crimes, such as by no tergi­uersation can be hid, Euidens notitia facti s [...]ntentiae Idem ibidem. locum tenet: Euident notice of the fact is in place of a Sentence. All which particulars doe crosse this Examinates former opinion, how excom­munication had no power to depriue any King from his kingdome, and could much lesse giue authoritie to murther him.

41 Whereunto this Examinate answereth, that what priuate men write, ought neither to be imputed to the doctrine of the Catholique Church, nor to any other mans preiudice, who is of another iudgment: and yet he saith, that these points propounded out of the said author are so farre out of ioint and so intolerable, as he hol­deth them in his iudgement to be most false, and dangerous, not onely to all protestant Kings and princes, but in like manner to those that are Ca­tholiques. For (saith he) if all of them may bee so dealt with by their subiects, who stand excom­municated ipsoiure, by many excommunications, but especially by the Bull Coenae Doviinicae, hee knoweth no king liuing, who may be secure, ei­ther of his kingdome, or of his life

42 It being here againe obiected vnto this Examinate, that because it is apparant, that all Kings and Princes who haue reiected the Popes supremacie, though otherwise they embrace the Gospel, are generally accounted by all Romish Catholickes to be heretickes: he this Examinate must, in the duety of his Allegeance, necessarily [Page 45] answere, concerning the positions following, whether he doeth allow them, or disallow them; the same being the effects of the Popes Excom­munications, euen ante Sententiam latam, before Sentence denounced, which are likewise contra­ry to his former iudgement

43 The Canon Lawes (sayth no meane man) Card. Allen a­gainst the execu­tion of Iustice. pa. 87. being authenticall in the lawfull tribunals of the Chri­stian world doe make all heretikes (not onely after they bee namely and particularly denounced, but by the Law it selfe ipso facto, as soone as they bee heretikes, or de iure, excommunicated for the same) to bee depriued of their Dominions. And another of little lesse cre­dit then the former, writeth thus: Hinc inferatur, Philop. pag. 194. vniuersa Theologorum at Iurisconsultorum Ecclesia­sticorum Schola, & est certum, & de fide, quamcun (que) Principem Christianum, si a Religione Catholicâ mane­festè deflexerit, & alios auocare voluerit, excidere sta­tim omni potestate ac dignitate, ex ipsâ vi iuris, tum humani, tum diuini, hoc (que) ante omnem sententiam Su­premi Pastoris ac Iudicis contra ipsos prolatam; & sub­ditos quoscun (que) liberos esse ab omni iuramenti obligati­one, quodei de obedientia, tanquam Principi legitimo, praestitissent: posse (que) & debere (stvires habeant) isti­usmodi hominem, tanquam Apostatam, haereticum, ac Christi Domini desertorem & reipub. inimicum, he­stem (que), ex hominum Christianorum dominatu oijcere, ne alios inficiat, vel suo exemplo, aut imperio à fide auer­tat. Atque haec certa, definita, & indubitata virorum doctissimorum sententia doctrinae Apostolicae conformis planè ac consona est: That is; Hereupon the whole [Page 46] Schoole of Diuines and Canonists doth inferre, and it is certaine, and of faith: that any Christian Prince what­soeuer, if hee shall manifestly deflect from the Catholicke Religion, and endeuour to withdraw others from the same, doeth presently fall from all power and dignitie, by the very force of humane and diuine law; and that also before any Sentence of the Supreme Pastour and Iudge against him denounced: and that his subiect: whatso­euer are free from all obligation of that oath, which they had performed for their allegeance vnto him, as to their lawfull Prince: and that they may and ought (if they haue forces) to eiect such a man as an Apostata, an hereticke, and a backslider from the Lord Christ, and an enemy to the Common wealth, out of all dominion ouer Christians, lest hee infect others, or by his example, or commandements auert others from the faith. And this certaine, definite, and vndoubted opinion of the best learned men, is wholy agreeable and consonant to the Apostolicall doctrine. And to this purpose diuers others of the same humour might be alledged.

44 Whereupon this Examinate at the last (though he was hardly drawen vnto it, in respect of the persons, whose wordes were cited, much honoured and reuerenced by him) did giue this answere, saying in effect, as he did concerning the authors whose assertions were propounded vnto him in the next precedent obiection, viz. That these men had their particular opinions, as hee hath his; but confesseth that these their assertions last mentioned are farre from his iudgement, vt­terly denying them to bee the inferences of the [Page 47] schoole of all Diuines, and Ecclesiasticall Law­yeers, or that they are either de fide of faith, or cer­taine, or defined, or the vndoubted opinions of the most learned men, agreeable to the doctrine of the Apostles. Besides, whatsoeuer this Exa­minate hath formerly said touching his reasons sent to Rome, or out of Syluester, or touching the present estate of this Kingdome, or his former iudgement, that an Excommunication cannot warrant any such kinde of proceedings of sub­iects against their Princes (be they Hereticks or Apostates, or whatsoeuer they be) doth iustle di­rectly with these assertions: and therefore hee saith, that hee doth vtterly reiect them, accoun­ting them great staines and blemishes vnto Ex­communication, if they bee made the effectes thereof.

45 Here it falling out aptly to come to the point indeed (mentioned Sect. 35.) the same was pressed. For whereas it is cleare by this Exami­nates confession, that they of the Romish church haue not onely amongst them Excommunicati­on of Princes, but likewise (as hee hath before shewed out of certaine their authenticall writers) an Eradication and vtter extirpation, which must (as it appeareth) be effected not by Excommuni­cation, but by vertue of the Popes authority, ei­ther as he is directly Dominus Temporalium, that is, the chiefe Temporall Lord vnder Christ ouer all the world, or indirectly, in ordine ad spiritualia, in order to things spirituall: forasmuch as both of [Page 48] them doe tend to one end, and are equally perni­cious and trayterous to all Regall Principalitie and authoritie; it being litle to the purpose to de­tract from Excommunication, that it hath no power to depose kings, or to absolue their sub­iects from their Allegeance, if there be left in the Pope another kinde of power, after that by his Excommunication he hath cast kings to the de­uill (in his owne idle conceit) then to eradicate them likewise and throw them out of their king­domes, and to authorize and incite their subiects to all secret conspiracies, treasons, rebellions and trecheries against their Soueraignes: this Exa­minate was heere againe vrged vpon his allege­ance to his Maiestie, and as there was any trueth to bee expected at his hands, to set downe his iudgement, touching this point of the Popes pre­tended Soueraigne power in Temporalibus, in or­dine ad spiritualia, in order to things spirituall, as he hath done before, concerning the other pre­tence of his direct authoritie.

46 With this point this Examinate (as it see­med) being much perplexed said, that now in­deed the matter was followed to the quicke: and therefore desired that it might be sufficient for him to acknowledge, that in his iudgement the Pope hath authoritie to Excommunicate (when there is cause) the greatest King in the world, profesing Christianitie; but (sayth hee) for his other power, in ordine ad spiritualia, in order to things spirituall, it cannot touch his Maiestie.

[Page 49] 47 Hereupon, for that this Examinate had often before desired, that hee might speake of things by degrees & not in grosse, it was thought fit to proceed herein with him accordingly. And therefore hee was first put in minde, what he had before said in the beginning of this his Exami­nation, concerning his iudgement of the obedi­ence due to princes by the precepts of Christ and his Apostles, Sect. 2: of the continuance of the said precepts: of his dislike, that any should ima­gine, either Christ or his Apostles in their said precepts to haue temporized, as willing Christi­ans, then liuing vnder persecuting Emperours, to obey no longer, but vntill they were able by force to suppresse them, Sect. 3 (and so as aboue more at large it doth appeare:) and being there­upon demaunded, whether hee continued still in the same iudgement, without any equiuocation or euasion whatsoeuer; he thereunto answering resolutely, that he did; and that in so affirming, hee deliuered his conscience clearely as in the sight of God: he was required, for the better assu­rance to be giuen thereof, to signifie his iudge­ment sincerely and truely, what hee thinketh of the assertions following, which doe thwart di­rectly his iudgement, so setled as he hath profes­sed, touching the first 300. yeeres after Christ.

48 Nos illa non mouent, quòd Martyres dicuntur De abdic. Hen. 3. lib. 1. cap. 3. mortem tolerâsse, & vt Tyrannos Ecclesiae infestos de­ponerent, minimè sategisse. Quia vt laudabile est, cùm resistere nequeas, ita vbi possis resistere religionis ac pa­triae [Page 50] bosti, nolle, nefarium & perniciosum est. That is, Those things mooue vs not, that Martyrs are sayd to haue endured death, and not endeuoured any wayes to depose Tyrants, being enemies to the Church. For, as not to resist the enemie of your religion and countrey, when you are not able, is commendable: so when you are able, not to do it, is wicked, and pernicious.

The holy Bishops might most lawfully haue excom­municated Allen defence against the Iust. of Eng­land. cap. 5. pag. 107. the Arrian Emperours, and haue warranted their Catholick subiects to haue defended themselues by armes against them; but they did not so, by reason of greater forces of the persecutors.

Moreouer, there is no question, but the Emperours Idem ibidem. Constantius, Valens, Iulian, and others, might haue beene, by the Bishops excommunicated, deposed, and all their people released from their obedience; if the Church, or Catholickes had had competent forces to haue resisted.

And to the purpose last mentioned: Quòd si Christiani olim non deposuerunt Neronem, & Dio­cletianum, Bellar. de Rom. Pontif. lib. 5. cap. 7. & Iulianū Apostatam, at (que) Valentem Arrianum, & similes, id fuit, quia deerant vires tēporales Christianis. Nam alioqui jure poterant id fa­cere. That is, If the Christians of ancient times did not depose Nero, and Diocletian, and Iulian the Apo­stata, and Valens the Arrian, and such like, it was, because temporal forces were then wanting to the Chri­stians; for otherwise they might lawfully haue done it.

49 To these Assertions (being thus pressed vpon him) after sundry tergiuersations, in respect of the dignitie of the persons, whose words [Page 51] were before mentioned, and of the discredit and danger he should cast himselfe into, by intermed­ling with their opinions; yet in regard of his due­tie to God, to his Maiestie, and to the trueth, (so farre as he is able to discerne it) at the last he an­swereth: that howsoeuer the said assertions may be politicall, yet surely in his iudgement they are not Theologicall: that hee wondreth how it commeth to passe, that these and the like sayings are so frequent of late dayes in many writers, con­sidering that neither in the bookes of godly mar­tyrs, during the first 300. yeeres after Christ, nor in the writings of the most principall ancient fa­thers, for many yeeres after, there is so much as a syllable (to this Examinates remembrance) that tendeth that way.

50 Besides, hee saith, that if these conceits should grow to be in credit, the reputation of the Apostles must needes decrease, as hauing bene in their times but Temporizers; which M. Black­wood, a sound Catholicke, doth collect out of certaine words of Buchanans, tending in effect to the same purpose with the former assertions: where shewing, that the Christians in Tertullians time (notwithstanding they had sufficient forces) did not thinke it lawfull to beare armes against their Emperors (as aboue this Examinate hath said) he the said M. Blackwood writeth in this sort: Blackuodei Apolog. pro Re­gibus. pag. 259. Paulus vtendum foro praecepit? Larurtam hypocrisn, sub personâ religionis, latêre voluit? Potestatibus obe­dientiam edixit, quia resisti non posset? Christianos [Page 52] viribus auctos, ad armacessantes, ad arma concitat, Im­perium (que) franget? That is, Did Paul commaund men to temporize? Was it his meaning, that masked hypocrisie should lurke vnder the semblance of religion? Did hee iniayne them obedience to higher powers, be­cause they could not resist? Did he excite Christi­ans, being once increased in strength to take armes, and ouerthrow the Empire? And a little after, he shew­eth out of Clemens, Peters disciple, speaking of the great tumult that Caiphas made in Ierusalem, that the Christians, etsi numero plures, virtute potiores, propter Numinis obedientiam, occidi maluisse quàm occidere: though more in number, and mightier in power, yet for their obedience to God, they chose rather to be killed then to kill: and there­upon doth describe the duety of subiects, and the armour of Christians, which are prayers and teares.

51 Moreouer, this Examinate doubteth not (as he saith) but that the Bishops of Rome in Ter­tullians time, and afterwards, were as godly and zealous Popes, as any haue liued since; that they very well knew, what authority did belong vnto them: and that if the aforesaid assertions had bene good Diuinitie then, considering the num­bers, force and abilitie of Christians in those dayes, the said Popes out of question would haue left some monument of their zeale, in the execu­tion of their authority and of the Christians rea­dinesse (hauing force) to resist their Emperors; whereas none such indeed are to bee found For [Page 53] these and many other such reasons, as might bee brought for this purpose, this Examinate saith, that he doth wholy disallow the said assertions, propounded vnto him as tentations to try him: and that therefore he doth rest in the iudgement before by him set downe, without all kinde of euasions and equiuocations whatsoeuer, profes­sing, that if he could set downe his minde more plainely herein, he would haue bene very willing thereunto.

52 Againe this Examinate being required, that because he had formerly inuolued himselfe into sundry difficulties, to the distaste of his Ma­iestie and the State, by some his intricate, and vn­certaine answeres heretofore made, he should to the point now propounded vnto him, answere directly, and vpon his learning, credit, and repu­tation: he saith, that indeede hee doth not re­member that euer any Pope vntill Gregorie the se­uenth, did adde to Excommunication any clause of their authoritie to depose Emperors, or kings, or to absolue their subiects from their allegeance, or to commaund them vnder paine of Excom­munication to beare armes against them; and D. Thomas handling this point, doth onely relie Tho Aquin. 2 [...]. 2 [...] quaest. 12. art. 2. therein vpon Gregorie the seuenth. Also he con­fesseth, that when Gregorie so dealt with the Em­perour, there was great dislike and repining at it, as it may appeare by Otho Frisingensis and Sigeber­tus; Otho Frising. lib. 6 cap. 35. whom he would not haue named (hee saith) because Baronius hath laid a touch vpon them of [Page 54] Schisme (as rather enclining to the Emperours, then to the Popes, when there was dissention be­twixt Idem de gestu Frid. lib. 1. cap. 1. Sigebert. in Anno 1088. them) had it not bene, that Vincentius in his Historiale had testified as much: where hauing spoken of the abuse of the keyes, he sayth, (with relation to Gregorie, and his next Successour but one, Vrbanus,) Vt pace omnium bonorum dixerim, haec Vincent. in spec. Histor. lib. 15 cap. 84. sola nouitas (ne dicam haeresis) necdum è mundo emerse­rat, vt Sacerdotes eius, qui dicit Regi, Apostata, & qui regnare facit hypocritam, propter peccata populi, doceant populum, quòd malis Regibus nullam debeant subiectionem; & licet ei sacramentum fidelitatis fece­rant, nullam tamen debeant fidelitatem, nec periuri di­cantur, qui contra Regem senserint, imò, qui Regi paru­erit pro Excommunicato habeatur, qui contra Regem fecerit, à noxâ iniustitiae periurij absoluatur. That is, That I may speake it with the fauour of all good men; this meere noueltie (that I say not Heresie,) was not as yet sprung vp in the world, that his Priests, who saith vnto the king, Apostata, and who maketh the Hypo­crite to reigne for the sinnes of the people, should teach subiects, that they owe no subiection vnto wicked kings; that albeit they haue taken an oath of fidelity vnto such a one, yet they are not bound in allegeance vnto him; and that such as shall take part against their king, may not be sayd to be periured: nay, that they who performe obedience vnto him, are to be held as excommunicated: and such as rebell against him, are to be acquited from all guilt of the crime of periurie. Which report & te­stimony made by so worthy a Bishop aboue 350. yeeres since, this Examinate saith, hee may not [Page 55] impugne or dislike, though Vincentius receiueth it from Sigebert; this Examinate no way approo­uing the discrediting of ancient Catholicke wri­ters, vnder pretence of their fauour towards this Emperor or that Emperor; because it giueth oc­casion to some, to empeach many other worthy mens writings in like sort, vpon colour of their partialitie towards the Bishop of Rome. Besides, it is apparant, that some of the best and most sincere Catholicks were much troubled with that fact of Gregorie, there being then many, who plainely denied, that the Apostolicall See had authoritie to depose (as he did) Henry the Emperor, and to absolue his subiects from their oath of fidelitie vnto him: in so much as the Bishop of Metz writ Gregorie 7. Epist. 21. lib. 8. apud Seue­rinum de Con­cilijs. vnto Gregorie, desiring him (being in great fauour with him) to assist and arme him with his reasons of such his proceedings with the Emperour, that he might be the better able thereby to withstand those, that spake against them.

53 Furthermore this Examinate (the premis­ses considered) being againe mooued, for the full clearing of his sinceritie, to deliuer his minde concerning the point, which he said touched the quicke, Sect 45. viz. of the Popes so great an au­thoritie in temporalibus, in temporalties, as that he may, by any distinction whatsoeuer, deale with Emperors or kings, as is aforesaid: he desi­ring Sect. 35. & 45. to see one of Cardinall Bellarmines bookes de Romano Pontifice, did deliuer out of him, his this Examinates iudgement, saying that he was veri­ly [Page 56] perswaded, as followeth, viz.

That the Pope is not Lord of those possessions which Bell. de Rom. Pontif. lib. 5. cap. 2. Infidels hold: that Infidell Princes, are the true and su­preme princes of their owne Kingdoms: that dominion is not founded in grace, or in faith: that S. Paul doeth bid vs to obey Ethnick Princes, for conscience sake: that wee were not bound to obey such Princes, if they were not true Princes: that Princes are not the Popes vi­cars: that the Pope would willingly, if hee could, giue the Kingdomes of Infidels vnto faithfull Princes: that it is a ridiculous conceit, to imagine, that God hath gi­uen to the Pope a right ouer all the kingdomes of the world, and not to haue giuen him at any time a faculty of vsing such a right: that Alexander 6. did not di­uide the late new found world vnto the kings of Spaine and Portugall, to that end that they should haue gone thither, to haue subdued the Infidell kings of that new World, or to haue taken to themselues their kingdomes; but onely that they should haue procured preachers of Christian faith, to haue been sent thither, and to haue protected and defended both those prea­chers, and the Christians conuerted by them; and that withall hee the said Alexander might preuent, the contentions and warres of other Christian princes, who would haue vsed traffique in those new regions.

54 That the Pope is not lord of the whole Christian Bell. ibidem cap. 3. world: that if hee were the lord of the whole Christian world iure diuino, the same would appeare in the Scriptures, or by some Apostolicall tradition: that in the Scriptures there is nothing, but that the keyes of the kingdome of heauen are giuen to the Pope, without any [Page 57] mention of the keyes of the kingdome of the world: that none doeth pretend any Apostolicall tradition to that purpose: that Christ neither did, nor doeth take kingdoms from those, to whom they doe appertaine: that Christ came not to destroy those things that were well setled, but to make them more perfect: that when the king becommeth a Christian, he doeth not lose his earth­ly kingdome, which by law he had before, but obtaineth thereby a new interest to the kingdome of heauen; otherwise the benefite of Christ should be hurtfull to kings, and grace should destroy nature: that it is no true assertion, to say that the Pope hath both powers, but comitteth the execution of one of them vnto others: that what authoritie soeuer the Emperours haue, they haue it from Christ: that if the Pope, as being the su­preme King and Emperour, might take from kings the execution of their regall authoritie, hee were greater then Christ: that although Innocentius doeth com­pare the Pope to the Sunne, and the Emperour to the Moone, yet it is to be obserued, that the Sunne and the Moone are not one Starre; that as the Sunne doeth not make the Moone, but God; so the Popedome and the Empire are not one, nor doe depend the one vpon the o­ther: that although the Pope alone, hath full authoritie in the temporalties belonging to the Patrimonie of the Church, yet in other Regions he hath not so.

55 That the Pope iure diuino, by the diuine Law Idem ibidem cap. 4. hath no temporall dominion directly of any one place: that Christ as he was man, whiles hee liued vpon the earth, did not, nor would receiue any temporall domi­nion: that the Pope is Christs vicar, and doeth represent [Page 58] him vnto vs, as he liued here amongst men: that there­fore, as he is Christs vicar and the highest Bishop, hee hath no temporall dominion: that it proceedeth from a false principle to say, that the Pope, who is Christs vicar, is both a temporall king and a Priest: that Christ was al­wayes the sonne of God, the king and Lord of all crea­tures, as God the Father is; but this kingdome is eternall and diuine, and doeth not take away the Dominions of men, nor agreeth to the Pope: that Christ as man, is the spirituall king of all men, and hath a most ample spiri­tuall power ouer all, as well faithfull as Infidels: that this spirituall kingdome of Christ, after the day of Iudg­ment, shall be sensible and manifest; and that the glory of this kingdome was begun in Christ our head, quan­do à mortuis resurrexit, when hee arose from the dead: that this Spirituall kingdome is not a temporall Kingdome, such as kings enioy, nor can be communi­cated to the Pope, because this spirituall kingdome, pre­supposeth the resurrection: that Christ as man, might if he would, or had thought it expedient, haue taken to himselfe a Regall authoritie, but hee would not; and therefore did neither receiue, nor had either the execu­tion or authoritie or power of any temporall Dominion, or kingdome: that all kingdomes are gotten, either by succession, or by election, or by the sword, or by gift; but Christ had no temporall kingdome by any of these meanes: that Christ did neuer execute any Regall au­thoritie in the world: that Christ came to minister, not to be ministred vnto, to bee iudged, not to iudge: that hee should haue receiued such a Regall authoritie in vaine, hauing neuer any vse of it: it being a vaine [Page 59] power, quae nunquam redigitur in actum, which is neuer brought into act: that Christ did not cast out of the Temple the buyers and sellers of Oxen and Sheepe, by any Pontificall or Regall power, sed more Prophe­tarum, zelo quodam diuino: but after the maner of the Prophets by a certaine diuine zeale: that kingly au­thoritie was not necessarie for Christ, nor profitable, but plainely superfluous and vnprofitable: that the ende of Christs comming into the world, was the redemption of mankind, to which end, spirituall power was onely necessarie, and not temporall that that power meere­ly temporall was vnprofitable for Christ, is apparant, because he was to perswade men to contempt of glory, delicacies, riches, and of all temporall things, where­with kings of this world doe most abound: that all the places almost of Scriptures, which speake of the king­dome of Christ, must needes be vnderstood of his spiri­tuall and eternall kingdome, but temporall kingdomes are not eternall: that Christ was not a temporall king of the Iewes, but a spirituall king of the Church: that although the Pope is said to haue that office, which Christ himselfe enioyed, when he was among men; yet those offices cannot be ascribed to the Pope, which Christ had, as God, or as hee is now an immortall and glorious man, but onely those (and yet not all of them) which he held as a mortall man: that Christ, because he was God and man, habuit quandam potestatē, quam dicunt excellentiae; had a certaine power of excellencie (as they call it) whereby he gouerned both faithfull and In­fidels, whereas hee committed his sheepe onely, that is, the faithfull, to the Pope: that Christ, as hee was man, [Page 60] had power to institute Sacraments, and worke miracles by his owne authoritie; which power the Pope hath not: that Christ could absolue men from their sinnes with­out Sacraments, which the Pope cannot doe: that Christ doeth communicate that power to the Pope, which might bee communicated puro homini, to a meere man; which was necessarie for the gouernement of the faithfull, so as without impediment, they might ob­taine the kingdome of heauen.

56 That these places and authorities: Data est Idem ibidem cap. 5. mihi omnis potestas in coelo & in terrâ, Matth. 8. All power is giuen vnto me in heauen and earth. Chri­stus beato Petro vitae aeternae clauigero, terreni si­mul, & coelestis Imperij iura commisit: Christ com­mitted to S. Peter the key-carier of eternall life, the Nicol. Pap. epist. ad Mi­chael. rights, both of the terrene and celestiall Empire: Ecce duo gladij, Luc. 22. Beholde here are two swords, doe no way preiudice the former doctrine: that the Popes power to decide temporall suits and questions, Can. caus. 11. quaest. 1. Quicunque litem, was granted vnto him by Theodosius, ex pietate, non ex debito, of deuotion not of duetie: that Christ, for the preseruation of humilitie, ordeined, that the Pope should haue need of the Emperours defence in temporalibus, Idem ibidem cap. 10. and that the Emperour also should need the Popes dire­ction in spiritualibus, and that therefore he left the Empire to Tiberius, and bestowed the Popedome vpon Peter.

57 That as touching the temporall principalities Idem ibidem cap. 9. (which they haue indeed) the same were giuen to the Bishops of Rome, and other Bishops, by godly men, such [Page 61] as Constantine, Charles the great, and Lewis his sonne, were: that although it were peraduenture abso­lutely better, that the Bishops of Rome should onely in­termeddle with spirituall matters, and kings with tem­porall; yet through the malice of time, experience tea­cheth it to be both profitable and necessarie, that as in the old Testament, the high Priests were long sine Im­perio temporali, without a temporal gouernment, and yet in those last times religion could not haue consi­sted and bene defended, except the high Priests had bin likewise kings, as in the time of the Maccabees; euen so it hath come to passe with the Church, that she, who in the beginning did need no temporall principalitie, doth now seeme to haue need thereof necessarily.

58 All the premisses being in this maner al­ledged out of Bellarmine, in effect word for word, by this Examinate, it was told him, that except he could be content, to open and enlarge himselfe further then after this sort, forasmuch as Bellar­mine (notwithstanding all that this Examinate hath repeated out of him, for the expressing of his owne iudgement) doeth afterward clearely attribute such an indirect powre to the Pope ordine adspiritualia, in order to things spirituall, as doth giue him authority, when he thinketh fit, to deale with Emperours and Kings, as if all the world were at his commandement (directly or in­directly it forceth not) for the eradicating of them, deposing of them, absoluing their subiects from their obedience, and plotting against them by his firebrands and Assassins, as times and places may [Page 62] serue his turne (as it hath beene touched Sect. 35. and 45:) hee this Examinate should leaue the matter worse then when hee began, and shew most manifestly, that when he tooke the oath of Alleageance, hee did dally and dissemble aboue measure, otherwise then became any dutiful sub­iect liuing, in a case so neerely concerning his Maiesty, and the State of the Kingdome.

59 Vnto this point this Examinate for his answere saith, that he maketh no doubt, but that he hath sufficiently so opened his minde, and en­larged himselfe, as that there can bee no question of his sincericie toward his Maiestie; in that hee hath twice, Sect. 4. & 47. shewed his iudgement, touching the practise of the primitiue Church, for the first three hundred yeres after Christ; like­wise his vtter dislike of sundry assertions pro­pounded vnto him, Sect. 49; some whereof main­taine, contrary to Tertullians relation (how Chri­stians stood then affected) that in those dayes, armes might lawfully haue beene borne against the Emperours, if the professors of the Name of Christ had beene able: and some, as touching sundry other vnsound and vncatholike matters in them contained, concerning the losse of King­domes, &c. vpon excommunications, Sect. 39; and also his opinion of the time, when the depo­sing of Kings and absoluing their subiects from their alleageance were first made adiuncts to ex­communication for ought he hath read, Sect. 52. But yet he is contented, as he saith, a little further [Page 63] to enlarge himselfe, according to the motion propounded, and to that end affirmeth, that hee doeth concurre in iudgement with these authors following; and so out of his pocket-notes set downe their words in this maner:

60 Apostoli nihil vi gerebant, tantùm vtebantur gladio spiritus: neminem agebant in exilium; nullius inuadebant facultates Haec omnie Erasmus non minùs disertè, quàm verè: That is, The Apostles did no­thing by force, they onely vsed the sword of the spirit; they draue no man into exile; they entered vpon no mans possessions. All this, saith Erasmus, no lesse ele­gantly, then truely, Costerus in fidei demonstrat. pag. 96.

Si aliqui Reges cum populo se tradiderunt Romanis Pontificibus, vt traditur de Anglis, nihil ad nos. Non tamen opinor, quòd Angli vllo modo permitterent, Pon­tificem destituere suum Regem, & alium constituere: nunquam enim aliquem Romanorum Pontificum hoc facere permiserunt: That is, If any Kings with their people haue subiected themselues to the Bishoppes of Rome, as it is reported of the English, (but vntrue­ly, as this Examinate hath before shewed) that tou­cheth not vs. And yet I doe not thinke, that the Eng­lish would by any meanes permit the Pope to depose their King, and constitute another: for they neuer suffered any of the Bishops of Rome, so to doe. Iohan. Maior in 4. Sentent. distinct. 24. quaest. 3.

De ratione potestatis laicae est, poenam ciuilem posse infligere, vt sunt mors, exilium, bonorum priuatio, &c. sed nullam talem poenam, ex institutione diuiná, infli­gere [Page 64] potest Ecclesiastica potestas: imò nec incarcerare, vt plaeris (que) doctoribus placet, sed ad solam poenam spiri­tualem extenditur, vtpotè excommunicationem. Reli­quae autem poenae quibus vtitur, ex iure purè positiuo sunt: That is, It is of the nature of lay power, to bee able to inflict ciuill punishments as are death, exile, losse of goods, &c. but the Ecclesiasticall power cannot by the diuine ordinance, impose any such punishment: nay not imprison, as the most Doctors doe hold; but is extended to spirituall punishment alone, as Excommunication. The other punishments which it vseth, are meerely out of positiue Law. Iacobus. Almain. de Dominio naturali & ciuili, in vltima editione Gersonis. pag. 696.

61. Here this Examinat being tolde, that al­though he hath to some good purpose repeated, what he had formerly said, and a litle more enlar­ged himselfe then before; in that hee hath ac­knowledged, that what the Pope can doe, more then Excommunicate, he hath it ex iure purè posi­tiuo, meerely by positiue Law: yet considering, that he made no scruple, to shew his dislike of the opiniō, touching the Popes pretended authoritie in temporalibus directly, in the 20. Sect: but seemed loath to deliuer his iudgement, concerning the other opinion of the Popes authoritie in Tempo­ralibus in ordine ad Spiritualia, indirectly in order to things spiritual; it was further vrged against him, that if he be indeed of Bellarmines minde in the points by him cited out of his booke, it seemeth to be impossible, that he this Examinat, being a [Page 65] graue and learned man, should thinke, that that which Bellarmine hath said (vpon very weake and simple grounds God knoweth) for proofe of the Popes indirect authority in ordine ad Spiritualia, is of sufficient force, and moment, to ouerthrow all that hee hath written before, in his second, third, fourth, and fifth Chapters of his said booke (one of them being countenanced, for offending too much, with the word directè, his arguments being in effect simple and absolute:) because it is most apparant to euery man, that will not wilful­ly hoodwinke himselfe, that hee the said Bellar­mine hath giuen the Pope such a blow, and dead­ly wound, by many his so sound and substantiall arguments against his pretended direct authority, as all the courses, how indirect soeuer, that can be deuised by the finest wits, will neuer bee able to salue and cure it. And therefore this Exami­nate was required very strictly, herein to expresse himselfe more clearely.

62 Whereupon this Examinate saith, that he must indeed needs confesse and acknowledge, that he hath wished, with all his heart, that either Cardinall Bellarmine had not intermedled with that question of the Popes authoritie in tempora­libus indirectly, or els that hee had bene able (if it haue any trueth in it) to haue handled it more pithily, and throughly: that the weakenes of his arguments for that point compared with the po­sitions set downe by this Examinat out of his said booke (as is aforesaid) hath beene an especiall [Page 66] cause (as he thinketh) why many of later times doe so earnestly labour to refell them; as foresee­ing, that if the Popes authority in temporalibus, to depose Kings, &c. should stand vpon this point, viz. that he had it but indirectly, the same would be subiect to great hazard, considering the oppo­sitions in these dayes to the Church of Rome: and that therefore, insomuch as the thing it selfe (viz. whether the Pope hath any authoritie at all to eradicate and depose Emperours and Kings for any cause) which is aimed at on both sides, aswell by them who affirme, that he hath such an autho­ritie directly, as by those, who say hee hath it not directly, but indirectly, is notwithstanding left as yet vndetermined by the Church: hee this Exa­minate desireth, that hee may not bee further vr­ged to interpose his opinion, otherwise then he hath done already, in matters of so great mo­ment and difficultie.

63 This onely (as appertaining hereunto) he saith, that he is much grieued to see the Popes Supreme authority in causes Ecclesiasticall, so much entangled with these pretences of another supreme authority in temporalibus; to be held di­rectly and immediatly of Christ, or indirectly, per ac­cidens, and by a certaine consequence: as if other­wise Christ should not haue sufficiently prouided for the necessitie of the Church, nor furnished the Pope with abilitie to discharge his duetie; consi­dering that without these deuises, so much insi­sted vpon, though with very great vncertaintie [Page 67] (to the great in dangering of the Popes vniuersall charge ouer all Churches in Spiritualibus) Saint Peter and his successors did sufficiently prouide for the necessitie of the Church, when the Em­perors and ciuill Magistrates were vtter enemies vnto it, and sought by all the meanes that possi­bly they could deuise, to haue quite abolished and extinguished the name and memory of all Christianity.

64 This Examinate being heere againe de­maunded, how hee can make it appeare, that the point aboue by him specified, is not as yet deter­mined by the Church: saith, That hee is now from his bookes; but taketh the same to bee so euident, as he feared not, in his letter to Cardinall Bellarmine, to say, that this proposition, scil. Papa habet potestatem deponendi Reges indirectè: The Pope hath power indirectly to depose kings, was not yet defined, tanquam res fidei formaliter, as a matter of faith formally: and well remembreth that Couaruuias in the second part of his booke of the last edition at Lyons, pag. 504. doth set downe the names of diuers worthy persons, that con­curre with him (this Examinate) herein. Besides he saith, that this doth further appeare by Cardi­nall Allen: where he affirmeth, that this propo­sition or any other equiualent vnto it, viz. That Card. Allen a­gainst Defence of English Iu­stice cap. 4. pag 72. the Pope hath power to excommunicate, or de­priue a Prince in case of heresie, or Apostasie, and consequently to absolue his subiects from their oath and obedience to him, is a meere matter of [Page 68] Diuinitie, if not defined (saith he) for vs, yet at the Alan [...]s ad persecutor. An­gios. sol. 326. least disputable in schoole: or as it is in the Latin co­pie, Est quidem planè Theologica, & cum religione Christianá arctissimè cohaerens, de quâ si for san non de­finitè pro parte nostrâ pronunciatum sit, posse tamen & solere Theologicis argumentis in vtram (que) partem di­sputari, ipsi quidem aduersarij, qui quicquam sciunt, ignorare non possunt.

65 Here it being obiected, that seeing (as it seemeth) it is not yet determined by the Church of Rome, either that the Pope is Dominus tempora­lium, directly, or only, in ordine ad spiritualia, indi­rectly, or that hee hath any such authority at all, whereabouts the authors of the two first opini­ons doe so hotly contend: and for that also he (this Examinate) hath professed before, that he Sect. 36. was not bound to either of the said opinions, vp­on any danger of declining from the Catholike Church, but would vse now his liberty, albeit in his letter to Cardinal Bellarmine he inclined to his side: and that therefore it seemed strange, why he is so loth to expresse his mind apparantly, and without any circumstances, what his sincere iudgement is, (without respect of any mens per­sons) as touching the Cardinals assertion for the Popes authority in temporalibus, in ordine ad spiritu­alia, in order to things spirituall; considering what dangerous consequences thereupon may ensue to his Maiestie and the State here: in re­spect whereof this Examinate, being eftsoones vrged, vpon his duetie towards God, and his [Page 69] Allegeance to his Maiestie, to deliuer his iudge­ment, touching this point, truely and sincerely: answereth, that because hee is still so pressed in his Maiesties name, and in his name also, who faith, Ego sum Veritas, I am the Trueth, to deale herein plainely and sincerely, and finding that o­therwise, hee shall not be able, to giue such satis­faction, as hee thinketh in his conscience hee is bound to doe, hee answereth to the premisses, in maner as followeth; viz.

66 That it is true, that none of the said three points obiected, are as yet determined: that hee must of necessitie acknowledge it to bee subiect to some reasonable exceptions, why, before it be concluded, whether the Pope hath at all any au­thority to eradicate and depose Kings and Prin­ces, &c. there is so earnest disputation of the ma­ner, how he receiued it from Christ, whether di­rectly or indirectly: that touching his former in­clination to Cardinall Bellarmines opinion, foras­much as the same is more generally receiued, hee held it his duetie not to dissent from him in ap­parance, it being the propertie of turbulent spi­rits, to quarrell at things conueniently setled for the good of the Church; and against the com­mon rule, Malum bene positum, non esse mouendum, things subiect to some exceptions, are not alwaies to be ruffled in, especially when they may tend to the preiudice of Christian tranquillity; and that he would stil haue concealed his own iudge­ment to himselfe touching these points, had hee [Page 70] not been so greatly vrged (as in diuers parts of this his Examination it may appeare) to de­clare it.

67 That (as it were by the way, but very per­tinent to this Examinates cause) forasmuch as by the premisses it is not onely euident, that the points contained in the Oath of Allegeance, are left as yet to bee disputed on in vtramque partem, (as Cardinall Allen affirmeth) but is also as plaine and manifest, that when Cardinall Bellarmine writ to this Examinate, that one of the chiefe heads of faith & foundations of Catholike Religion was brought into danger by this Examinates taking of the said Oath: hee, the said Cardinall was vtterly mis-in­formed, as supposing the same to bee against the Popes Supremacie in causes Ecclesiastical; where­unto that Oath, (as before he hath said) had no maner of relation: for otherwise it is apparant, that his taking of that Oath, can no way endan­ger any head or foundation either of faith, or of Christian Religion; there being no such heads, or foundations yet agreed vpon or laide in that behalfe.

68 That therefore as he hath acknowledged his libertie (without danger of declining from the Catholicke Church) to expresse his iudge­ment, as well of this opinion so much vrged a­gainst him concerning the Popes authoritie in temporalibus indirectè, as he hath done before of the other, viz. that the Pope (as he thinketh) is not Dominus temporalium, directè; so this Exami­nate [Page 71] will now at the last vse that his libertie at this time, because hee doeth finde it to be as lawfull for him to refuse the one as the other: and doeth thereupon accordingly professe with all trueth and sinceritie, that (as he thinketh) neither of the said opinions is true: that what he this Examinate hath before set downe at large out of Cardinall Bellarmine, he thinketh in his conscience is sound and Catholicke, and cannot be impeached either by the Canonists, and those their assistants, that lately haue taken their parts so eagerly, for the Popes direct power, or by the other side, who to the same end for his dealing with Emperours, Kings, and Princes, as is aforesaid, doe attribute the same vnto him, though indirectly: and that he is the bolder in this sort to declare his minde con­cerning the said two opposite opinions, because it is not yet defined (as hee hath said) by the Church, whether Christ hath left to the Pope any such authoritie at all, to eradicate and depose Emperors and Kings, as they contend for prepo­sterously, in labouring (before it be resolued whether hee hath any such authoritie, or not) to perswade men in what maner the same was giuen vnto him, directly saith the one side, indirectly saith the other.

69 That hee verily supposeth, that Cardinall Bellarmine, being so worthy and eminent a man for iudgement and learning, hath not been so peremptorie in the handling of the two said points, whether the Pope hath the said surmised [Page 72] authoritie directly or indirectly: but that hee hath left vnto himselfe some sufficient warrant and li­bertie, to varie (if there be occasion) in the said third point, viz. whether Christ gaue to S. Peter any such authoritie at all, or no. For whereas hee (the said Cardinall) doeth plainely affirme, that Papa, vt Papa, ordinariè Temporales Principes depo­nere Bellar. lib. 5. de Rom. Pont. cap. 6. etiam iustâ de causâ non potest: tamen potest regna mutare, & vni auferre, & alteri conferre tanquam summus Princeps spiritualis, si idnecessarium sit ad a­nimarum salutem: That is, The Pope cannot, as he is Pope, (though there be iust cause) by his ordinarie power depose ciuill Princes, yet as he is the supreme spiritual Prince he may translate Kingdomes, and take them from one, and conferre them vpon another, if need so require, for the sauing of soules: he saith in effect nothing else, though couertly, but that the Pope hath no power at all to depose Kings. For S. Pe­ter neither did, nor could transferre any authori­tie vnto his Successor, but ordinarie: for which cause it is commonly held, that the rest of the A­postles could not deriue the plenitude of their power to their successors, as S. Peter did, because the same in them was not ordinary, as in S Peter, but extraordinary: Extraordinaria enim potestas non transit in successorem. For an extraordinarie pow­er doeth not descend vnto the successours. And at this point this Examinate saith he did aime (as farre as he durst presume) in his letter to the Car­dinall, where hauing cited his words abouesaid; Non potest, Papa, vt Papa, &c. hee writ after this [Page 73] sort: Verba iuramenti sunt, Papam non habere autho­ritatem deponendi Regem, & disponendi de regnis & dominijs Maiestatis suae: Et communis intellectus apud Magistratum ad nullum alium conceptum propendet, quàm ad hunc, viz. Papam, vt Papa est. Nam non potest pertingere ad illum conceptum, viz. tanquam summum Principem spiritualem. Et cùm propo­nitur iuramentum suscipiendum, illius sensus, cogni­tus à Magistratu, restringitur ad ordinariam potesta­tem. Nam qui proponunt iuramentum, illi remotissi­mi sunt à cogitatione extra ordinariae aut indirectae potestatis in Papâ residentis. That is, The words of the oath are, that the Pope hath not authoritie to depose the King, and to dispose of his kingdomes and Dominions: And the common vnderstanding thereof doth with the Magistrate incline to no other conceite, but to this; viz. the Pope, as he is Pope: For it cannot reach vn­to that construction, viz: as he is the supreme spiri­tual Prince. And when the oath is exhibited to be ta­ken, the sense thereof, apprehended by the Magistrate, is restrained vnto an ordinarie power. For they that minister the oath, are as farre as may bee from the thought of any extraordinarie, or indirect power, re­siding in the Pope. Besides, it is apparant that the Pope is not otherwise the highest spiritual Prince but as hee is Pope, so as what he cannot doe as Pope, he cannot do as the chiefe spiritual Prince. And out of question Carerius hath gotten an ad­uantage Carer. depot. Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 8. of the Cardinall by reason of his said for­mer assertion: where he the said Carerius labour­eth to prooue, that Christi vicarius propriè dicitur, [Page 74] Papa, Christs vicar is properly called, the Pope: and doth presse it hardly to this effect; that either the Pope is not Christs vicar, or else that hee doeth iudge inferiores Potestates, vt Papa, as he is Pope.

70 That the contents of the 39. 66. 68. and 69. Sections of this his Examination, being well weighed and considered, together with diuers o­ther points by him set downe in the said Exami­nation: his answere (this Examinat saith againe) to the Cardinals letter, touching the clause most excepted against, doeth reach as farre, as by the oath of Allegeance was intended. For whereas (saith this Examinate) if the Pope should haue any authoritie to depose and eradicate Kings, he hath it not by vertue of his power to Excommu­nicate, but must haue it of necessitie, either as he is supposed to be Dominus in temporalibus directè, the Lord of temporalties directly, or Dominus in temporalibus indirectè, the Lord of temporalties in­directly: and that Cardinall Bellarmine is perem­ptorie, that the Pope cannot depose kings by any ordinarie iurisdiction, that he hath, as he is Pope; and Carerius, with all his vpholders on the other side, are as confident & resolute, that if the Pope hath not ordinarie authoritie, as he is Pope, to de­pose kings, he hath no such authoritie at all: for as much as what hee this Examinate hath be­fore affirmed, how in his opinion (as hee saith) the Pope hath no authoritie to depose Kings, either as he is Dominus in temporalibus directly, or indirectly: the same is nothing else then what he [Page 75] deposed vnto, when he sware, that in his consci­ence, the Pope neither of himselfe, nor by any authority of the Church or See of Rome, or by any other meanes with any other, hath any power or authoritie to depose the King, &c. And because also, that whether he should haue had authoritie to depose Kings or not, he must haue had it by some imperiall or ciuill authoritie, either as hee is Dominus in Temporali­bus directly or indirectly: considering that to be Dominus in temporalibus in any of the said two re­spects, is to haue an imperiall and ciuill authoritie: hee this Examinate saith, that these points well weighed, it is plaine, that when hee writ to the Cardinall: Summum Pontificem non habere impe­rialem & ciuilem potestatem deponendi Regem no­strum: that the Pope hath not an imperiall or ciuill power to depose our King: he told the Cardi­nall in effect as much, as if he had said vnto him, that the Pope hath no authoritie at all to depose his Maiestie.

71 That for the further clearing of his (this Examinates) relying vpon his Maiesties speeches in Parliament, when he tooke the oath of Allea­geance, and his mentioning of it likewise to the Cardinall; he this Examinate saith, that except it be thought a fault, to answere truely to a matter propounded, when he speaketh not all the truth, that doeth thereunto appertaine, (which were a strange conceit; the order neither of Schooles, nor of any iudiciall Courts in the world, binding any man to proceed further in his answere to any [Page 76] question or interrogatorie, then the same doeth leade him:) hee this Examinate seeth not (hee sayth) what can be subiect to any iust reprehensi­on, in his answere to the Cardinals letter, the sub­stance thereof being grounded vpō this conceit, that he this Examinate, in taking the oath of Al­legeance, had sworne against the Popes supre­macie in causes Ecclesiasticall.

72 For answere vnto which erroneous con­ceit, hee this Examinate sayth, that when hee writ, that hee tooke the oath in this sense, viz. That the Pope had no imperiall and ciuill authority to depose his Maiestie, the same is true, whether it be attributed to the Pope, either directly or indirect­ly: also when he writ, That the Pope had no impe­riall and ciuill authoritie to depose the King at his pleasure, and vpon his appetite; the same also is as cuident, though the Pope had as great authori­tie, as they pretend hee hath, who say he is Domi­nus in Temporalibus directly: that where hee this Examinate, hauing cited diuers authours to this effect, that the Pope hath authoritie indirectly in ordine ad spiritualia, did thereupon inferre, that the Pope could not depose his Maiestie, because if he should so doe, he should vse that his autho­ritie, non ad spiritualia promouenda, sed euertenda: not to the furtherance of spiritual matters, but to the ouerthrow of them; and therupon did adde, that he held nothing els therein, quàm quod vbig Theologi in suas conclusiones compegerunt, then what was generally concluded amongst Diuines: he [Page 77] said (as he thinketh) therein also truly, for that the cōmon opinion is, that the Pope hath no authori­tie, ad destructionem, to destruction. So that albeit he might (as he saith) haue answered to euery point of the Cardinals letter more throughly, yet that which he writ, being sufficient to answere it: he thought it his best course to write, as he did.

73 It being heere againe obiected, that not­withstanding he this Examinate hath very well declared his iudgement, to any mans content­ment, who is ignorant of the new deceitfull shifts of equiuocation: yet because Cardinall Bellarmine holdeth, that albeit the Pope cannot depose a king by his ordinary authority directly, as hee is Pope: he may neuerthelesse mutare Regna & vni Bell. de Rom. Pont. lib 5. cap. 6. auferre atque alteri conferre, tanquam summus Prin­ceps spiritualis, alter Kingdomes, and take them from one, and giue them to another, as he is the highest spirituall Prince, as hauing authority in temporalibus, in ordine ad spiritualia: forasmuch as yet it may well be doubted, whether he this Exa­minate, when hee saith, that the Pope hath no Imperiall or Ciuill authority, nor any power in temporalibus either directly or indirectly to depose and eradicate kings, to absolue their subiects of their allegeance, or to authorize them to beare armes against them, hath not this, or some such like cuasion, viz. that it may truely be affirmed, that the Pope hath no such authority, to bee ter­med properly either Imperiall, or Ciuill, because whether he hath it in temporalibus directly, or in­directly, [Page 78] yet the authority in it selfe, being em­ployed for the deposition of Kings &c. is to bee named, according to the end, wherefore it is so vsed; which being for the good of the Church, (that is spirituall) the said authority is not to be called a Temporall, but a Spirituall authoritie; whereby all which hee this Examinate hath hi­therto said may be eluded, and made frustrate by this, or some such shift, viz: The Pope hath no Imperiall, and Ciuill authority to depose the king, that is, he cannot depose him by his Ciuill autho­rity, as it is Ciuill, but as it is Spirituall: and againe to the same effect, the Pope hath no authority in temporalibus, either directly or indirectly, to de­pose kings; verum est, the authoritie which the Pope hath in Temporalibus, to depose kings, is to be termed Ecclesiasticall and not Temporall, as it is truely called, when Kings and Princes doe vse it to an end which is Ciuill: he this Examinate was vrged to expedite this difficultie with some rea­sonable plainnesse and perspicuity.

74 Whereupon this Examinate being grie­ued (as he professed) that nothing would be ac­cepted in satisfaction of his duetie (as he feareth,) said, that assuredly there should be no defect in his sinceritie, howsoeuer the same might be wre­sted: and therefore to the said obiection briefly answereth, That although hee doeth acknow­ledge that there are some, who say, that when Boct. Epon. He­roie. & Eccle­siastic. quaest. pag. 185. the Pope doth inflict Temporall punishments, for the better preseruation of his Spirituall au­thority, [Page 79] nullâ dicetur vti Iurisdictione temporali, sed merè spirituali, cùm totum hoc ad animarum salu­tem, coeleste (que) regnum referatur: he shall not there­in be said to vse temporall Iurisdiction, but mere­ly Spirituall, sith this whole action hath respect to the saluation of soules, and to the kingdome of heauen: yet because the most that write after this sort, doe qualifie their speeches therein, with a quasi, or dici potest, or magis, or aliquo modo; it is apparant that their meaning is not, that such a temporall authority vsed to a spirituall end, is in very deede, and in trueth a meere spirituall au­thoritie.

75 Besides, he this Examinat further addeth, that to his vnderstanding, the deposing of Kings, and the exciting of their subiects, to beare armes against him; will hardly be raunged amongst spi­rituall actions. In summe therefore this Exami­nate saith, that in his iudgement, the Popes spi­rituall authoritie ought not to be extended, be­yond the power of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen, and of the censures of the Church, pro­perly so called: and that the Pope hath no autho­ritie at all in temporalibus either directly or indirect­ly to depose Kings, &c. by what name or title so­euer the said power, when he putteth it in practise in ordine ad spiritualia in order to things spirituall (as he the said Pope supposeth) may bee termed, whether spirituall or temporall; or whether the end hee aimeth at, by such his proceedings with any King or Prince, be spiritual or supernaturall, [Page 80] that is, bee pretended to bee vndertaken for the good of the Church, and promoting of Christia­nitie: the same in this Examinats iudgement (as hee saith) being neither Apostolicall, nor agree­able to the practise of the most worthy Bishops of Rome in the Primitiue Church, and for a long time after, nor auaileable in truth to the Catho­licke Church, but rather hurtfull, and great hin­derances thereunto.

76 And here this Examinate further saieth, that the premisses considered, viz: vpon what vn­certainties the maintenance of the Popes autho­ritie, not to excommunicate, but to depose Prin­ces, doth consist: hee confesseth that hee cannot chuse but acknowledge, that he much wondreth, and in that cogitation is also exceedingly grie­ued, that euer Gregorie the seuenth, or any Pope since did in their Excommunications of certaine Emperours, Kings and Princes, take vpon them in the same, to denounce them deposed from their kingdomes, to release their Subiects of the othes of their Allegeance, and to authorize them no longer to obey their Soueraignes, vnder paine of Excommunication: as also that many men, aswell Emperours, Kings, Princes, and their sub­iects haue thereby receiued great detriment, es­pecially subiects, who haue spent their liues, as supposing the cause was iust, which they vnder­tooke, this in the meane while being indeed their case, that as what they did therein, was in truth wicked, and rebellious, so when either that, [Page 81] which they took in hand had not good successe, or when afterwards the Pope and such Princes grew to an agreement, they were euer for the most part reputed (according to their deserts) for Rebels and Traitours, vnder pretence of some thing or other, that was amisse in their procee­dings: and that therefore he hopeth, that in time all Catholickes will hereafter by other mens harmes learne to beware, and not bee drawen to any disobedience against their Soueraignes vn­der any pretence whatsoeuer.

77 The authours of the late most wicked, and barbarous treason, commonly termed the Gun-powder treason, had (as this Examinate verily thin­keth) some intendment to haue aduanced there­by the Catholicke cause: for that his Maiestie did still persist in the same course, which was held by the late Queene his predecessor, or by what other inducements, this Examinate knoweth not. Howbeit, as this was their iust reward here, that they were condemned, and executed for trai­tours; so doe they worthily reape amongst all dis­creete Catholikes and wise men abroad in other Countries, nothing but shame and infamy to the memorie of their owne names and posteritie: which this Examinate wisheth from the bottome of his heart, may euer be the successe of all man­ner of persons whatsoeuer, that shall imagine, or seeke to contriue any hurt to his Maiestie, the Prince, or any other of his Highnesse posteritie, or to the present state of this kingdome, vnder a­ny [Page 82] colour or pretence of conscience, religion, fa­uour towards the Bishops of Rome, or any thing els whatsoeuer. Only this Examinat here addeth, that as he doth very well approue, that Catesby with his fellowes should bee chronicled for trai­tours by any or wheresoeuer: so he disliketh, that the said Cristanouic also, who is aboue named, should endeuour after a sort to qualifie their of­fence, by casting an vntrue and shamefull scandall vpon this whole nation: where after a long dis­course to prooue, that English men haue from time to time conspited against their kings, not for religion, but in respect of their owne rebellious nature: he concludeth thus, with relation to the said Gun-powder traitors: Causam tenes, lector, con­iurationum Anglicanarum, quarum furorem falsò reli­gioni Stanista. Cri­stanouic. exam. Cath. fol. 18. Catholicae legislatores tribuunt: that is, Thus (Reader) you haue the true cause of the English conspi­racies; the furie whereof, their Law-makers doe falsly impute to the Catholique religion. And againe, Non ergo Catholicum sed Anglicanum ingenium, Reges Ibidem. Angliae non sinit securos esse: that is, It is not therefore the Catholique, but the English humor, which will not suffer the Kings of England to liue secure. For (as this Examinate saith) what this fellow affirmeth of English men, may bee as well iustified of any nation in Christendome, if such a rash iudgement might be grounded vpon such like arguments as he hath vsed: But here this Examinate remem­bring his drift, wisheth in his heart, that it might be neuer forgotten by any Catholiques, or other [Page 83] English men whosoeuer, what guerdon, com­mendation, and infamous renowme they may iustly expect, that for any cause whatsoeuer (as is aforesaid) shall attempt any thing against their Soueraigne.

78 Thus farre this Examinate hauing opened his iudgement, vpon such occasions as were mi­nistred vnto him: he vsed sundry speeches, how much it troubled him, that either his Maiestie, or the State should doubt of his sinceritie, and Al­legeance, and therefore for a conclusion, and as it were to adde his seale, to all that before he hath said, he further affirmeth, viz:

That he doeth truely and sincerely, from the bottome of his heart acknowledge, professe, te­stifie and declare in his conscience before God and the world, that King Iames his Soueraigne lord, is iure diuino, and by the positiue lawes of this realme, lawfull and rightfull King of this realme, and of all other his Maiesties Domini­ons, and Countries, both de facto, and de iure: and that it was not lawfull, either for his Maiesties Subiects, to haue withstood him by force, from being their king, nor euer can be lawful for them, now that he is their king, to rise vp against him, or seeke by any wayes or meanes to hurt him, ei­ther in his health, or in his regall estate; although he denieth the Popes supremacie in causes Ec­clesiasticall, and seeketh (as he may) to suppresse all those, that dissent from him in those points of Religion, which hee imbraceth: and though [Page 84] likewise they (his said subiects) being either Ca­tholikes or Protestants, had sufficient numbers, forces, and ability so to doe, without any scandall to the Catholike cause, and without any danger to themselues either in their goods or liues.

79 That the Pope iure diuino, by the lawe of God, neither of himselfe, nor by any authority of the Church, or See of Rome, or by any other meanes with any other hath any power or au­thority, either directly or indirectly, in ordine ad spi­ritualia, (whether the said authoritie bee termed spiritual or temporall, or mixt, or howsoeuer it is, or may be termed) to depose the King, or to dispose any of his Maiesties kingdomes or dominions, or to authorize any forreine Prince to inuade or annoy him, or his countreys: or to discharge any of his subiects of their Allegeance and obedience to his Maiestie; or to giue license or leaue to any of them to beare armes, raise tumult, or to offer a­ny violence or hurt to his Maiesties Roial person, State, or gouernment, or to any of his Maiesties subiects within his Maiesties dominions.

80 That he doeth also affirme from his heart, that notwithstanding any declaration, or Sen­tence of Excommunication, or depriuation made or graunted, or to bee made or graunted by the Pope or his successours, or by any au­thoritie deriued, or pretended to be deriued from him or his See, against the said King, his heires, or successours, or any absolution of the said subiects from their obedience: hee will beare [Page 85] faith and true alleageance to his Maiestie, his Heires and Successours, and him and them will defend to the vttermost of his power against all conspiracies and attempts whatsoeuer, which shall bee made against his, or their persons, their crowne and dignitie, by reason or colour of any such sentence or declaration, or otherwise, by reason or colour of any authoritie or power, a­scribed to the Pope in temporalibus, directly or in­directly, in ordine ad spiritualia, whether the said au­thoritie be termed spirituall or temporall, or mixt, or howsoeuer it is, or may be termed, and will do his best endeauour to disclose and make knowen vnto his Maiestie, his Heires and Successours, all treasons and traiterous conspiracies, which hee shall know or heare of, to bee against him, or any of them.

81 That furthermore he doeth auow it from his heart, that hee doeth abhorre, detest and ab­iure, as impious and hereticall this damnable do­ctrine and position: that Princes which be ex­communicated by the Pope, or are depriued by him of their kingdomes, by this pretended au­thoritie in Temporalibus, either directly or indirect­ly, in ordine ad spiritualia, (whether the said autho­ritie be termed spirituall or temporall, or mixt, or howsoeuer it is or may be termed) may be depo­sed or murthered by their subiects, or any other whatsoeuer, notwithstanding any commaunde­ment, direction or aduise, directly or indirectly giuen to the contrary, by any manner of per­son [Page 86] whosoeuer, and notwithstanding any expo­sition, or declaration of the Popes interpretatiue will, that if any in zeale, by reason either of the said Excommunication, or depriuation, or of them both, wil either aduenture to take vp armes against such a King, or to lay violent hands vpon his person, the Pope is bound by his office to approue it, because the same did tend to the exe­cution of his Sentence, and to the promoting of the end, he aimed at.

82 That hee also doeth beleeue, and is in his conscience resolued, that neither the Pope, nor any person whatsoeuer, hath power to absolue him of this oath, or of any part thereof, whereby he might truely thinke himselfe discharged in a­ny one point of his Allegeance before by him professed: and that therefore hee doeth re­nounce all Pardons and Dispensations in that behalfe.

83 And that lastly hee doeth plainely and sin­cerely acknowledge, as in the presence of God, and vpon his Allegeance to his Maiestie, that what hee this Examinate hath deliuered, and is here set downe in this his Examination, the same doeth conteine his true iudgement, so farre as his learning reacheth, without any equiuocation, or mentall cuasion, or secret reseruation whatsoe­uer: and is to be vnderstood, according to the expresse words, as they are set downe, and accor­ding to the plaine and commonsense and vnder­standing of the same.

[Page 87] 84 But heere againe it being obiected, that albeit he this Examinate hath very well dischar­ged his duetie, as well in his expressing his iudg­ment, in the points aboue propounded vnto him (that of the Popes Supremacie in causes Ecclesi­astical, & some other touches of certaine things, not appertaining to the oath of Alleageance ex­cepted:) yet forasmuch as the same doeth de­pend vpon this vncertaintie, whether the Pope will define it, to bee a matter of faith, and accor­dingly then to be acknowledged by Popish Ca­tholickes, that hee may depose Kings, and deale with their subiects, as is aforesaid; and that there­by his Maiestie, and all other Christian Kings and Princes (as their occasions fall out) shall still rest vnassured of the loyaltie of their subiects, and of their owne safeties: it was necessary, that hee this Examinate should also cleare this point: for answere whereunto he saith as followeth.

85 That hee did not imagine any such matter would haue bene propounded vnto him because it is well knowen to all that bee learned, that no man can iudge before hand de futuris contingenti­bus, of future contingents, and therefore he desi­red that he might be forborne.

86 But hereunto this reply being made, that although there can bee no certaine iudgement de futur is contingentibus, soil: contingant vel non contin­gant: whether they shall happen or not happen; yet of a certaine and determinate thing propoun­ded, what might be thought of it, if it should hap­pen, [Page 88] there may before hand a direct and sure iudgement be giuen: For example: it is futurum contingens, whether euer any King, and Parlia­ment in ENGLAND will make a Statute to re­store to the Pope his Supremacie here, as fully as euer he had it: and yet it is not to bee doubted, but that he this Examinat, if he were now asked, whether in his iudgement, such a Statute were lawfull and iust, or not, and might accordingly be put in execution: he would out of question an­swere before hand affirmatiuely: and euen so it being told this Examinate, that hee might doe in the case propounded; after some deliberation, thus he answered, viz:

87 That (as hee writ vnto the Cardinall) al­though it should be determined to be a point fidei formaliter, of faith formally, that the Pope might deale with Princes, as is aforesaid, and were ac­cordingly so to be receiued in thesi in the generall position: yet this question propounded in hypo­thesi, by way of particular supposition an Papa ha­beat potestatem deponendi Regem nostrum, rebus in co statu, quo nunc sunt, permanentibus apud nos, whe­ther the Pope haue power to depose our King, matters continuing with vs in the state, wherein now they are: he this Examinat saith now, as he writ then, that the determination of this questi­on, touching his Maiestie should only be of that, which is fidei materialiter, of faith materially: quia esset determinatio de quaestione, quae in rebus creditis accidit, & proinde non diceretur determinatio de fide, [Page 89] sed de tali materiâ: because it should bee the deci­sion of a question which hapneth about things beleeued, and therefore is not to be said to bee a determination touching Faith, but concerning such or such a matter: wherein, because (as hee hath before obserued out of Syluester, and Couar­ruuias) the Pope may be deceiued; hee this Exa­minat saith, that in his iudgment, let them define at Rome, what they list in this matter; yet if the same should be offered to be practised against his Maiestie, it ought not to bee entertained, recei­ued, or obeyed by any of his Maiesties subiects, the same tending not to edification, but to destru­ction.

88 Against this answere such exceptions be­ing taken, as are before set downe: after some fur­ther enforcing of them with many circumstan­ces, and repetitions of sundry points, by him be­fore acknowledged: hee was at the last content further to enlarge himselfe in maner hereafter en­suing: affirming: viz:

That in his iudgement, the Pope will neuer determine it to bee a matter of faith, for Catho­lickes to beleeue, that hee hath authoritie to de­pose Emperours, or Kings, to absolue their sub­iects from their Allegeance, and to authorize them, either to disobey them, or to beare armes against them: because hitherto, when it might haue beene better done, and with lesse scandall, and inconuenience, it hath not beene so defined; notwithstanding that the Popes themselues in [Page 90] their owne persons, and the citie of Rome it selfe haue bene in greater danger and perill, then they now are: and this Examinatis fully resolued, that the present Pope, and the Cardinals his assistants are as graue, wise, and prouident now, to foresee what euill, and inconuenience might grow to the Church by such a resolution, as euer any of their predecessors were in times past.

89 That he is fully perswaded, that as it doth tend to the expressing of the supereminent ex­cellencie of the iustice of God, to say, that he can­not doe any thing, that is vniust; and of the great honour and dignitie of Kings and Princes, to af­firme of them, that Reges non possunt esse serui: So­ueraignes cannot bee vassals: so it doth no way derogate from the high dignitie and calling of the Bishop of Rome, but rather doth greatly aduaunce it, to say, that because hee cannot erre, there are therefore many things which hee cannot doe, For example, euen in the point questioned, as the Pope cannot determine it to be lawfull, vnder a­ny pretence whatsoeuer, for a man to commit ad­ultery with his neighbours wife: no more can he determine it to bee lawfull vnder any pretence whatsoeuer, for any of his Maiesties subiects to beare armes against him; both of them being a­gainst the morall law of God, which the Gospel doeth in no one point preiudice. Nor as he can­not by any determination or resolution, vpon a­ny pretence whatsoeuer, make a sonne to bee no sonne, during the life of his father: no more can [Page 91] he make the borne subiect of any king, not to be his subiect, so long as the king liueth.

90 That he is also altogether of this opinion, that whereas the defining of the Popes said vn­determined authoritie to depose kings &c. stan­ding vpon this issue, that either he hath indeede no such authoritie at all, or else, that he hath it, as being dominus temporalium directè, the lorde of temporall things directly, or as dominus temporali­um, in ordine ad spiritualia indirectè, the lord of temporall things, in an order vnto spirituall things indirectly; forasmuch as such a determina­tion must of necessity include the condemnation of the opinion either of Cardinall Bellarmine, and of that strong side that taketh his part (which may breede some further trouble,) or of Cardi­nall Baronius, and those that ioine with him, be­ing many and increasing dayly more and more, with great confidency, that they haue the trueth, (which no doubt will bee found inconuenient, considering that their positions doe much more tend to the honour of the Church of Rome, then those that are mainteined, as peremptorily by the other side:) he this Examinate is of this opinion (as he saith) that there will neuer be any such de­termination, as hath bene obiected, or at least, that it will not bee for many yeeres yet to come, whilest there is so strong opposition, concerning the manner, how and in what sort Christ gaue Saint Peter that authority (if he gaue it him at all) viz: whether directly, or indirectly, immediatly, [Page 92] or by a certaine consequence: except it may bee held to be sufficient (leauing both the sides men­tioned contending amongst themselues) without any certaine grounds, firme reasons, impregna­ble testimonies either of Scriptures or Ancient Fathers, first agreed vpon by the Church and concluded, so to define, as is imagined: which this Examinate is fully assured, the Pope and Cardinals, being men of such excellencie and wisedome, will neuer attempt.

91 That although it may peraduenture bee confidently giuen out (as it hath bene vntruely by many already) that the Pope to haue autho­ritie to depose kings &c. is defined at Rome, to be held as a point of faith; thereby still to keepe on foote the ancient opinion since Gregorie the se­uenths time of the Popes authoritie in that be­halfe, for the good of Christian kings and Prin­ces, that they might be the rather induced to con­tinue in some awe and feare, if they did not their dueties belonging to Christianitie: yet hee this Examinate thinketh it very necessary, that no Ca­tholicke should giue any faith to that report, ex­cept he may see the same authentically so confir­med and euident, as the Canon lawes in a case of such importance doe require: which this Exami­nate is fully perswaded, they shall neuer see: or that if any such thing should happen to fall out, this Examinate is verily perswaded, it will not bee a generall resolution, touching the Popes authoritie to depose kings &c: but onely to the [Page 93] point in question nowe amongst Catholickes here in England, that it is not lawfull to take the said oath of Allegeance, and then this Examinate further saith, that the same will bee built vpon this false ground, that the oath of Allegeance doeth include the oath against the Popes supre­macie in causes Ecclesiasticall, as he foreseeth al­ready by the Cardinals letter vnto him, and by the said Cristanouic, who hauing set down the said oth at large, writeth thus: Quod iuramentum? De Pri­matu Regis in spiritualibus: And what oath? Of the kings Supremacy in causes spiritual, & that ther­fore if any such resolution come authentically, as is aforesaid, the same (as all Catholickes are to iudge of the Popes sinceritie) being procured by surreption, and false suggestions ad destructionem, to destruction, no Catholicke is bound to be o­uer-ruled by it, but the same notwithstanding, euery Catholicke may safely and lawfully take the saide oath of Allegeance, if according to the Statute in that behalfe made, hee be required so to doe.

92 That also whatsoeuer may fall out at Rome, either touching the said oath of Allegeance, or the Popes authoritie in temporalibus, without any mention of it therin, whether he hath it dire­ctly or indirectly, the same will not be more amply set out and declared, then it was before by Boni­face Bonifac. de ma­ior. & obedi­entia. vnam sanctam. the 8. where he writeth in this sort: In hac e­iusdem potestate duos esse gladios, spiritualem viz: & temporalem, Euangelicis dictis instruimur. Nam dicen­tibus [Page 94] Apostolis: Ecce duo gladij hîc; (in Ecclesiâ scil: cùm Apostoli loquerentur) non respondit Domi­nus, nimis est, sed satis. Certè qui in potestate Petri temporalem gladium esse negat, malè verbum attendit Domini proferentis: Conuerte gladium tuum in vaginam. Vter (que) ergo est in potestate Ecclesiae, spiri­tualis scil & materialis: That is, We are warranted by the wòrds of the Gospel, that in his power were two swords; the one spirituall, the other temporall. For when the Apostles saide, Beholde, here are two swords, (meaning in the Church, sith the Apostles spake it) Christ replied not, it is too much, but it is e­nough. Assuredly, whosoeuer denieth, that the tempo­rall sword is in S. Peters power, he doth not wel marke the speech of Christ, saying, Put vp thy sword into the sheath: Therefore both swords are in the power of the Church, as well the temporall as the spirituall. And a little after: Veritate testante, spiritualis po­testas terrena instituere habet, & iudicare. That is, Trueth it selfe testifying, that the spirituall power is to order and to iudge earthly affaires; according to the prophet Ieremies words: Ego constituite hodie super gentes, & regna, & caetera, quae sequuntur. I haue set thee this day ouer nations and kingdomes, &c: All which particulars not­withstanding, for the setting out of that Consti­tution, purposely made against the king of France; Clemens the fift shortly after made ano­ther constitution to the empeachment of the for­mer; wherein he writeth thus: Nos Regi & regno per definitionem & declarationem bonae memoriae Bo­nifacij [Page 95] Papae 8 praedecessoris nostri, quae incipit, Vnam Sanctam, nullum volumus, vel intendimus praeiudici­um generari: nec quod per illam Rex regnum, & reg­nicolae praelibati, amplius Ecclesiae sint subiecti Roma­nae, quàm antea existebant, Sed omnia intelligantur in eodem esse statu, quo erant ante definitionem prafatam: That is, Wee will not, neither is it our purpose, that any preiudice come vnto the King or the kingdome by that definitiue sentence and declaration of Pope Bo­niface the 8. of worthy memorie, our predeccssour, beginning thus, Vnam Sanctam; nor that by force thereof, the King, the kingdome, and people aforesaid should be subiect to the Church of Rome, more then for­merly they were: But that all things be vnderstood, to be in the very some state, as they were before the afore­said definitiue sentence was giuen.

93 Moreouer also this Examinate saith to the same purpose next before spoken of, that besides the said Clement, diuers other men of meaner cal­ling, haue beene bold to refell some of the argu­ments, whereupon the said Constitution was built, as Cardinall Bellarmine, that of the two swords: and diuers moe, though this Examinate cannot now set down their words: only he saith, he is well assured, that Huge Cardinalis doeth make a better exposition (to this Examinates vnder­standing) of the said place of Ieremie, then Boni­face did. So as if it happen, that the present Pope doe make any resolution against the said oath of Allegeance, besides the exceptions ta­ken before vnto it by this Examinate, he further [Page 96] addeth how it may well come to passe, that the next Pope will alter it: and that in the meane time, it may be as lawfull, for graue and learned Catholickes, to take exceptions vnto it, as it hath beene for any other, to empeach the said Constitu­tion of Boniface, or any part thereof. But this Ex­aminate doeth well hope, that the present Pope in his great wisedome will preuent this course, and approoue the graue iudgement of Petrus de Alliaco Cardinall of Cambray, who in his Trea­tise of the Reformation of the Church of Rome, offered to the Councell of Constance, begun Anno 1414. doeth write in this sort: In hoc non debet Pet. de Alliaco de reform. Ro­ma. ecclesiae. Papa, aut eius Curia, &c. Herein (as touching the Reformation of the body of the whole Church, and of the particular Church of Rome) the Pope or his Consistorie, ought not to reiect the deliberation of a generall Councell, because, as the glosse 19. distinct. super cap. Anastasius saith, the Pope is bound to re­quire a Councell of Bishops, when any point of faith is to be handled: quod non solum intelligo, &c. which I doe not onely vnderstand, of the Articles of faith, but of difficult matters, that touch the vniuersall state of the faithfull Church: which Archidiaconus 15. dist. c. Sicut. noteth, where approouing the said glosse, he addeth: qòod nimis periculosum esset fidem no­stram committere arbitrio vnius hominis: that it were too dangerous a matter to commit our faith to the arbitrement of one man: and that therefore the Pope in new and hard cases was accustomed to haue recourse to the deliberation of a Councell. That it is a matter of [Page 97] great difficultie and importance, and such, as doeth very greatly concerne the whole Church, whether the Pope will hold it fit to determine ei­ther generally, that he hath no authoritie inspiri­tualibus, or particularly, that it is not lawfull for Catholickes in England to take the said oath of Allegeance; this Examinate is out of doubt; and is therefore so farre of the said Cardinals minde, that neither of the said points are to be discussed and concluded, without some great and mature deli­beration.

94 This Examinate being here demaunded, whether he had seene a Booke lately come forth, intituled, A Treatise tending to mitigation towards Catholicke Subiects in England, and amongst diuers things in it, whether hee had considered of cer­taine words vsed by the Earle of Salisburie, as they are set downe in the Preface of the said Treatise, and of the Authour of that Booke his answere vnto them: he confesseth in euery particular, that he hath. The Earles words are there cited thus; that hee hath beene a long time sorie, that some cleare P. R. his trea­tise tending to mitigation. Praefat. pag. 20 explication of the Papall authoritie hath not beene made, by some publike and definitiue sentence Ortho­doxall, &c. that not onely those Princes, which doe ac­knowledge this authoritie (meaning the Popes) might be secured from feares and ielousies of continuall Treasons, and bloody assassinates against their persons: but those Kings also, which doe not approoue the same, and yet would faine reserue a charitable opinion of their Subiects, might know how farre to repose themselues in [Page 98] their fidelitie, in ciuill obedience, howsoeuer they seeme diuided from them, in point of conscience.

95 These words hauing bene in this sort laide before this Examinate, after he had well marked both them, and the answere vnto them: hee was with some difficultie at the last induced to deliuer his iudgement, as touching the said answere, say­ing: that hee liked very well of the first and third part thereof, as touching the Popes authoritie, so farre forth as it concerneth his power and charge, to looke to all Christs sheepe, without exception of great or small, people or Potentates, not one­ly for their instruction and direction in spirituali­bus, but likewise, (if neede require) for their spiri­tuall castigation, by the censures of the Church, interdiction and Excommunication, not to bee decreed or published without iust cause, graue and vrgent motiues, and due forme also of pro­ceeding, by admonition, preuention, intercessi­on, and other like preambles, prescribed by Ec­clesiasticall Canons to be obserued.

96 But as touching the second part of his an­swere, this Examinate doubteth, how it may ei­ther satisfie the said Earle, or any other, that is of sound iudgement. For whereas the said authour faith, that although there be a question betwixt the Canonists, and the Catholicke diuines, whe­ther the Pope haue such an authoritie in tempo­ralibus, directly or indirectly, as by them is disputed of, and by this authour is briefly touched: yet both parts doe fully agree, that there is such an [Page 99] authoritie left by Christ in his Church, for reme­die of vrgent causes: for that otherwise he should not haue sufficiently prouided for the necessitie thereof: hee this Examinate doeth see, and ac­knowledge the trueth and importance of the iust exceptions that are alreadie and may hereafter peraduenture be taken to that answere.

97 For where the Earle of Salisburie wished some cleare explication of the Popes authoritie by some publicke and definitiue sentence: the said authours answere is insufficient, when hee saith, that both parts, viz: the one defending the Popes authori­tie directly, and the other indirectly, were fully a­greed for the said authoritie, &c. but onely diffe­red about the manner, how and in what sort it was giuen vnto him by Christ: which wordes might seeme to import as much as the Earle desi­red, whereas in deede the authoritie which this authour saith, both parts are agreed vpon, is not yet determined. For Cardinall Bellarmine and his Bellar. de Rom. Pont. lib. 5. cap. 4. side are fully resolued, that the Pope hath no such authoritie directly, and that consequently he must either haue it indirectly, in ordine ad spiritualia, or not at all: and è contra the authours, who oppose themselues to that opinion, are as confident, that he hath no authoritie in temporalibus, except hee haue it directly: so as how can it be said they are Carer. de au­thorit. Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 5. & 8. agreed, when both sides are so peremptorie, that he hath no such authoritie at all, except he haue it, saith the one side, directly, saith the other side, indirectly? And for his further answere hereunto, [Page 100] he referreth himselfe to that which before hee hath set downe in the 63, 68, 69, 76, 88, 90, and 91 Sections.

98 As it was obserued in the 42. Section: that all princes for denying the Popes supremacie, though otherwise they professe the Gospell, are tearmed heretickes by the Romish Catholickes: so although they liue neuer so orderly according to their lawes, without inflicting any other pu­nishments vpon offenders, then are agreed vpon by the Common-wealth, they are accounted ty­rants, if for the repressing of Popish errours, they doe at some times giue way to the execution of such Lawes, as are made against them. And none are more violent herein, then such as were borne and bred vp amongst vs in England, as Stapleton, and William Raynolds, (if they were the authors of the two bookes, intituled De iusta abdicatione Hen­ric. 3. and, De iusta Reipuh. Christianae in Reges im­pios, & haereticos authoritate:) who affirme, that all power at this day, which is auerse from religion, De iusta abdic. pag. 11. Rossaeus pag. 106. (meaning the Romish religion) is tyrannie, and that they are tyrants, that doe vse their kingly power, to the imposing vpon their Subiects of that faith, which they terme hereticall: and for example of such tyrants, one of them alledgeth K. Henry the 8. Edward the 6. and Queene Elizabeth. The consequences of which assertions are, as Idem pag. 157. well in their opinions, as in the opinion of many other, that are of that sect, that euery such tyrant may be depriued of his kingdome, and (if neede [Page 101] be) murthered by his Subiects, yea by euery pri­uate man, if hee haue fit opportunitie, after that he is declared by the Common-wealth, as some say, to be a tyrant, or by the Pope, as others af­firme. Whereby all kings and princes, that mis­like the Popes tyrannie, and sundrie his corrup­tions, are by him and his priests infinitely disho­noured, and no one way more, then by inciting their subiects to rebellion, vnder pretence of reli­gion, which ought to be the surest band of duety and obedience. In consideration whereof, it be­ing told this Examinate, that it was all one to his Maiestie, whether (by the Popes doctrine) hee were to be deposed from his Crowne, vnder ei­ther of these false pretences, that he is an here­ticke, or that he is a tyrant, and that thereby his Subiects are no longer to obey him, but may beare armes against him, and offer violence vnto his sacred person, as well in the one case as in the other: and that therefore it stood him in hand, seeing he professeth himselfe to be a true subiect, to deliuer himselfe from these traiterous con­ceits: he the said Examinate answered as follow­eth, saying:

99 That in his iudgement, if it be true (as this Examinat beleeueth it is) that the Pope hath no authoritie by any Sentence whatsoeuer, to de­pose a King for heresie (as before he hath at large declared) nor to absolue his subiects from their Allegeance: it is also as true a fortiori, that hee hath no authoritie by any Sentence or iudgment [Page 102] whatsoeuer, so to determine any king to be a ty­rant, as that thereby his right to his kingdome, should in any sort be empeached, or his subiects set at liberty to rebell against him, or to offer any hurt vnto his person.

100 That he knoweth, what diuers haue writ­ten as touching tyrants, wherewith hee saith, it is impertinent for him now to intermeddle: affir­ming notwithstanding, that (in his iudgement) no king, who in the course of his gouernement doth obserue the lawes, established in his king­dome, and doth not otherwise afflict his subiects, either by violence, rapine, crueltie, impositions, exactions, or by any other vnlawfull meanes, but (as he is bound) giueth way to the execution of his lawes, and onely vseth the ancient preroga­tiue of his Crowne, can in any true construction be rightly iudged a tyrant, though some of his said lawes, doe tend to the punishment of Catho­lickes, and to the maintenance of the religion, which he professeth: diuers Emperours being in their times notable gouernours, and promoters of their Empire, to the great good of their sub­iects in temporall causes, though otherwise they were great enemies to Christianitie.

101 That no King, who commeth to his Crowne by succession, as being the right heire thereof, may lawfully, vnder any pretence of ty­rannie, bee deposed, or resisted by his subiects, either iointly assembled together, or otherwise by any secret machinations or treacheries of ma­nie, [Page 103] few, or of any one: and that as touching this point, either of iudging a king to be a tyrant, or dealing with him thereupon, as is before menti­oned, he is altogether of Master Blackwood his o­pinion: who writing against sundry traiterous positions of Buchanans, tending to the effect be­fore obiected, doth proue very sufficiently these points that ensue, viz:

102 That no subiects can arrogate to themselues Blackuodaei Apolog pro Re­gibus. pag. 56. any part of Regall authority without committing of treason, except the same bee delegated vnto them by the King: and that then also, they are to vse the same authority, no otherwise then in such sort, and so long, as the King doeth willingly permit them: That our Kings here in this land are no way ob­liged Pag. 106. to the people for their kingdome, but haue all their power and Empire from God, and are onely bound to giue an account to him of the discharge of their office and duetie, their kingdomes belonging to them iure haereditario, by right of inheritance, so as no sooner Pag. 178. is one King dead, but the next heire is actually king: no ceremonie or Coronation, or other circumstances adding more to his right, then hee had before: That the Oath itselfe which they take at their Coronation, being made to God, and not to the people, doeth not Pag. 221. any way empeach the interest they haue iure sangui­nis, Pag. 224. by their birth.

103 That, forasmuch as the kings subiects, his Pag. 211. &c. Clergie, Nobles, and Commons cannot assemble toge­ther in Parliament, without the kings Writte, vnder paine of treason by the olde lawes, nor when they are [Page 104] come together, determine any matter, or make any Lawes without the Kings Royall assent, nor continue any longer together after the King doeth dismisse them: it is apparant, that they haue no authoritie ei­ther to iudge the king a tyrant, or to remooue him: and that much lesse any priuate persons, his na­turall borne subiects, haue authority to rise vp a­gainst him, whatsoeuer may bee pretended, vn­der any colour, cause, or glosse whatsoeuer: That amongst the three orders, which deposed the Pag. 213. late Queene of Scotland, there were scarse any, but three thecues, three traitours to their countrey, and three murtherers, with their abettors: resembling the three-formed monster, with the lions head, breathing out fire, the belly of a goate, and the taile of a dragon.

104 Whereunto this Examinate addethout of the said M. Blackwood, that which hee himselfe hath set downe before in effect in the beginning of his Examination, and may wel serue for a The­ologicall conclusion of this point: Quotquot in­stituto Christi vixerunt, &c. As many as since Christs Pag. 241. time haue liued according to his institution, did neuer decline the gouernement of Tyrants, and much lesse did resist them by force: they followed therein their Prince (Christ himselfe) who although hee could haue withstood the iniuries of the people, of the high Priest, and of Pilate the lieutenant, with many legions of Angels: yet hee yeelded himselfe to death, that hee might thereby confirme that which he had taught in his life time, viz that an iniurie is to be borne gently and mildely, and not by force to be repelled. And againe, Pag. 242. [Page 105] Paulus simulat (que) &c. As soone as Paul became a Christian souldier, his seditious and bloody spirit being changed into the desire of peace and quietnes, he honou­red Agrippa, Foelix, and Lysias the Roman Procon­suls, in respect of their offices, vt doctrinam suam ex­emplo vitae sanciret, that he might ratifie his doctrine, by his example of life. To this purpose this Exami­nate saith he could alledge much more, in his de­sire to shew the freedome of his iudgement from such mens imaginations, as are named in this ob­iection: but the remembring onely of Cathari­nus vpon the 13. to the Romanes, together with the premisses, may (as he hopeth) giue sufficient contentment.

105 Whereas this Examinate speaking of the Popes authority in temporalibus, indirectly, Sect. 63. did adde these other equiualent phrases to the word indirectly, viz per accidens, and by a certaine consequence, but refused to insert there the word casualiter, and vpon some other occasions did let fall from him, that the Pope had no inherent au­thoritie in temporalibus, either directly, or indirect­ly in ordine adspiritualia, or per accidens, or by any consequence, but that which he had, he had it ca­sually: forasmuch as this word casually may so bee vnderstood, as that it may quite dash and ouer­throwe all that formerly hath been said by this Examinate for the clearing of his Allegeance to his Maiestie, he was straightly vrged, to open this mystery sincerely and truely. Theeues haue no ordinary power to spoile houses, that are well [Page 106] guarded, or rob men by the highway side, who are strongly accompanied, but they haue often­times casually power to doe both; as when they finde either houses weakely prouided for, or men in their iourneys not sufficiently furnished. And it was told this Examinate, that hee might haue the like causion in behalfe of the Pope, that then hee hath authority to depose kings, and deale with them, as in the Oath of Allegeance is proui­ded for to be preuented, when hee may haue po­wer so to doe casually, that is, when he may either by his owne forces, or by the forces of any other, or by any practises of his agents, secretly, or by any hap, or casualty, when kings least suspect it, or are altogether vnprouided to resist it, that then he may work or procure their vtter ruine and de­struction. Which were to make the Pope the scholer of Machiauel, taking vpon him at some times to play the lion, and at other times to be­come a foxe, alwayes practising mischieuously against those Kings that offend him, as casually he might be able to effect his designements, by pray­ing vpon them or deuouring them.

106 Whereunto this Examinate answering saith, God forbid, God forbid, that euer he should haue such an imagination against his Maiestie, or that euer he should haue intended, by the word casualiter, to haue sought for such an euasion, as aboue is pretended: and besides hopeth, that the Pope will neuer giue occasion for any of his Maiesties subiects, to resemble him either to a [Page 107] lion, or to a foxe; which this Examinate saith, vpon the occasion giuen, hee could not omit to obserue. But being heere pressed to come to the point, as touching this word casualiter; after some long debatement of sundry particulars thereunto appertaining, which will appeare by his answers, he saith as followeth:

107 That hee must indeed confesse, the word casualiter to bee diuersly vsed by sundry writers; and that some doe take it in that sense, which might iustly beget the former obiection and col­lections. They which hold, that the Pope is the Lord of all temporalties throughout the world directly, doe affirme: that such his authoritie and iurisdiction is as really and actually inhering in his person, being Christs Vicar, as is his supre­macie in causes Ecclesiasticall: but yet the pra­ctise of it, they hold is but casuall, out of S. Peters patrimony. And on the other side, as they which maintaine, that the Pope hath no authoritie in temporalibus directly, but indirectly, in ordine adspi­ritualia, amongst other phrases, which they haue to expresse their minds, besides indirectly, per acci­dens, and by a certaine consequence, they likewise say, that he hath it incidently, secundùm quid, secun­dariò, per consecutionem, and accessoriè: so when they speake of the practise of that authoritie out of the bounds of S. Peters patrimony, they doe also vse the word casualiter. For the better mani­festation of which particulars, this Examinate saith, he doth acknowledge that Celsus Mancinus, [Page 108] agreeing with the rest who pleade for the Popes inherent authoritie, doth write thereof in this sort:

108 The Popes Iurisdiction (saith Mancinus) may be taken either for that, which hee hath potestate aut Cels. Mancinus de iuribus principatuum. pag. 94. actu, potentially or actually, and actually in two sorts, either ordinarily or casually. If the authoritie, and Iu­risdiction of the Pope, be taken for that which hee hath potestate potentially, it extendeth it selfe ouer all the world: but if his actuall Iurisdiction be taken, not or­dinarily, but casually, forasmuch as it onely hath vse in the Christian world, it is said to bee as great as the whole Christian world, and ordinarily as great as is S. Peters Patrimonie. Againe, speaking of this Idem ibidem pag. 89. great and regall authoritie so inherent in the Pope, hee saith, it did lie hid in the first Bishops of Rome in the Primitiue Church vntill the vineyard of the Lord had taken deepe roote, and that the spouse of Christ, which at the first had no papps, became to bee of mature age, and that all that while, for the space of 350. yeeres, the said power did lie in Martyrdome, and blood, vntill afterwards the foundations were laid, and the walles were built vp, and that then the same began to shew it selfe in blessed Syluester and his Successors. But withall he addeth, that the vse and exercise of the Popes said actuall and casuall authoritie and iuris­diction is not great in the Pope: That if we consider the Idem ibidem. pag. 89. Popes care of spirituall things, he is so occupied in them, being heauenly matters, as hee can scarcely intende to those things, that bee terrestriall: That in Kings and Emperours the vse of temporall power is more frequent; [Page 109] because the matters that they deale in, are not heauen­ly, but terrene. Mary (saith hee) their swords not­withstanding, Idem ibidem. pag. 98. and all their temporall power are at the Popes commaundement, in that hee is the Lord of the whole Christian world, to whose iurisdiction, all other iurisdictions are subiect, and referred, as to the first fountaine, from whence they flow. And in another place likewise he saith, that the preseruation both of particular and vniuersall iustice belonging to the Popes Idem ibidem. pag. 105. & 106. office; for asmuch as he cannot be attentiue to such ter­rene affaires, lest applying himselfe to these small mat­ters, hee might leaue celestiall things vndone: hee dea­leth in such sort with Emperours, Kings and Princes for his owne assistance, as Iethro taught Moses, who following Iethroes counsell did appoint Iudges, to deale in temporall causes, that hee might more freely apply himselfe to those that were spirituall; he (the said Pope) hauing notwithstanding in himselfe power and authoritie to correct the errours of such Emperours, Idem ibidem. pag. 98. Kings and Princes, and to iudge of their excesses, as there should bee cause. For (saieth Mancinus fur­ther) though Princes are free within their proper ter­ritories, Idem ibidem. pag. 120. and may freely vse their power and authori­tie: yet they haue their boundes and limits, which they must not passe, and there is a meane in the vse of it, which they are bound to obserue: but if they ex­ceede their measure, and passe their line, then it is the part of Christs vicar, in whom is the top of both autho­rities, to take knowledge of their proceedings, and to re­medie them: and that in matters of greater difficultie and weight, Appeales doe therefore lie from all Kings [Page 110] to the Pope; as when mens rights are ouerthrowen, they are to flie to the supreme Iudge, whose office is to iudge such causes.

109 So as (this Examinate saith) hauing thus deliuered truely the effect and substance of Man­cinus iudgement, touching this point set downe by him (the said Mancinus) at large, and with great varietie, according to their opinions who concurre with him, concerning the Popes inhe­rent authority, and iurisdiction ouer all the world directly, in causes temporall: it doth appeare, what his and their conceit is of the casuall practise of that great authority. And he confesseth it to be this in effect: viz: that Emperours and Kings hol­ding their authority as from the Pope, they are to him as Moses his Iudges and rulers were vnto him: and that therefore, when it happeneth, or falleth out casualiter, that the Pope holdeth it fit to depose any King from his Crowne and king­dome; to absolue his subiects from their Allege­ance, to authorize them to beare armes against their King so deposed, to command them vnder paine of Excommunication so to doe, in that be­ing deposed he is no more their King: or other­wise when hee holdeth it conuenient to correct and punish any other Kings for dealing vniustly with their subiects, vpon complaint made vnto him, as vnto the chiefe Iudge, if they persist in so doing, he may so deale and proceede with them, euen as Moses might haue done, vpon any com­plaint brought vnto him in some such like cases, [Page 111] against any of his Iudges and rulers deputed vn­der him: And furthermore, that if a King so de­posed by the Pope, will needs keepe his King­dome still, if his subiects (notwithstanding the Popes commandement to the contrary) will not be induced to beare armes against him, nor to withdraw their obedience from him, but will still honour, obey, and serue him; or if other Kings will so far contemne the Popes authority, when vpon Appeales made vnto him, they doe persist in oppressing their subiects, so as the Pope is dri­uen vpon their contempts, to take the like course with them: then in those and the like cases, saith Mancinus and others, the Pope being the highest Mancinus ibi­dem pag. 232. Bishop, and Christs vicar, and glistering with re­gall dignitie, may without all doubt (if hee will) moue armes, proclaime warre, and excite men himselfe to battaile; and it is also generally by these men held, that the Emperour, and all other Christian Kings and Princes, are at the Popes commandement, and beck to draw their swords, and to vse all their forces for the putting in exe­cution of his said Sentences, to the suppressing of the said obstinate Kings, and the transferring of their kingdomes vnto some others.

110 Here this Examinate being asked, what difference there was betwixt these mens opini­ons, who hold that the Pope may thus proceede with Kings and princes, by vertue of his authori­tie in all temporall causes directly, but casualiter; that is, in such cases as are aboue expressed, when [Page 112] casually they happen: and the other side, who al­though they deny, that the Pope hath any such authoritie directly; yet they affirme (as it hath beene oft aboue mentioned) that he hath power to depose kings and to transferre kingdomes in ordine ad spiritualia, indirectly, per accidens, by a cer­taine consequence, incidently, secundùm quid, secun­dariò, per consecutionem, accessorily, and casualiter: that is, when such occasions are offered: hee this Examinate answoreth, that he must needes con­fesse, there is no difference at all betwixt them, in respect of their iudgement, touching the lawful­nesse of the Popes authoritie, to proceede casua­liter, as is aforesaid, with such obstinate princes, but onely this, that the one part supposeth this authoritie to be inherent in the Pope, as hee is Christs vicar, which the other denyeth, but saith notwithstanding, that he hath it, though not in­herent in him, yet indirectly, & by a consequence; because all kings and princes when they are bap­tized, doe promise and vndertake inclusiuè, that they will for euer maintaine the Church, be obe­dient to the Pope, and at his commandement, for the suppressing of all such persons whosoe­uer, as shall oppose themselues against the Ca­tholicke faith. Insomuch that Cardinall Bellar­mine, Bell. de Rom. Pon. lib. 5. cap. 6. euen in the same Chap. where hee remem­breth the Popes dealing in temporall causes inci­denter & càsualiter, incidently and casually, al­though he acknowledgeth, that the Pope, as hee is Pope, cannot ordinarily depose princes, euen for [Page 113] a iust cause; yet hee saith, that the Pope may change kingdomes, and take them from one and giue them to another, not as he is princeps Ecclesia politicus, but as hee is summus princeps spiritualis, when they hinder religion, & taking that course, which bringeth detriment to mens soules, will not otherwise be reclaimed.

111 Vpon this declaration made by this Exa­minate vpon such apparant grounds and colle­ctions, as he could not denie, it was demanded of him, what his iudgement was, as touching the contents of it. Whereunto he answereth, that he hath elswhere sufficiently opened his mind in that behalfe, where he hath often said, that in his iudg­ment the Pope iure diuino, hath no authoritie in­herent in him, or not inherent directly or indirect­ly, whether it be termed spirituall or temporall, or a mixt authoritie, or howsoeuer it is, or may be called, to depose kings either for heresie or A­postasie, or for any other cause whatsoeuer, or to release their subiects from their obedience, or to authorize them to beare armes against them, or to excommunicate the subiects of any such kings that refuse to enter into any such disobedient, re­bellious, and traiterous courses, but continue their faithfull and loyall subiects, notwithstan­ding, hee should tell them neuer so confidently, that such their former kings, being by him depo­sed, were no longer their kings, or any other al­lurements or perswasions whatsoeuer to the con­trary. Whereunto this Examinate now addeth, [Page 114] that in his iudgement, it is a vaine conceit and re­pugnant to the Scripture, for any to affirme, that the Pope hath any power, authoritie, or iurisdi­ction, either potentially or actually, ordinary or casuall, to deale with kings or princes, or with their subiects, as is aboue mentioned, or to holde and maintaine, that kings and soueraigne princes haue their regall authoritie from the Pope, or that they are to him, as the rulers and Iudges a­mongst the Israelites were to Moses, or that hee hath any authoritie at all, as he is Christs vicar, and S. Peters successour, to deale with kings and princes for any cause, or at any time, further then concerneth the health of their soules, and the maintenance of the Catholicke faith, by admo­nitions, perswasions, and good counsell: and (if those will not serue) then by the spirituall cen­sures of the Church, and by S. Peters keyes only; and not so neither, but when it is apparant, that such spirituall censures may in deede and truely turne to edification, and not to destruction, and that they may be vsed without hurt or danger of Ca­tholickes either in their bodies, goods, or liues. All further proceedings of the Pope with kings and soueraigne princes, as the chiefe pastour of their soules, this Examinate saith, hee doeth vt­terly dislike, and prayeth from the bottome of his heart, that hereafter they may neuer be pra­ctised.

112 But heere this Examinate being put in mind of his own words aboue specified, wher he [Page 115] acknowledged the Pope to haue casualiter some authoritie in temporalibus, without the limits of S. Peters patrimonie, though the same were not in­herent in him; and thereupon required to declare his meaning therein, he saith that he neither had nor hath any other meaning then this: that when any questions or controuersies arise amongst Kings, Princes, and such other great persons, as they cannot amongst themselues compound, but yet are contented to referre the decision or com­pounding of them vnto the Pope, (vnto whome they are all subiect in Spirituall matters) hee (the said Pope) may lawfully, in this Examinates iudgement, vpon this occasion, and so casualiter intermedle and deale in the said questions and controuersies, and order them, for the establish­ing of vnitie, friendship, and concord betwixt the said parties, although the particulars so questio­ned, or controuerted, be meerely and altogether of temporall conusance. And also this Exami­nate further saith, that the Pope may so deale (as he thinketh) when any King, Prince, or other great person will bee content, for the strength­ning of his owne purposes in some especiall mat­ter, to desire the Popes approbation of it. For example, the King of Fraunce hauing left his for­mer wife, and married another, had by her a Decretal. lib. 4. cap. 13 qui filij sunt legitimi. sonne and a daughter: and being, as it seemed, in doubt, that his sonne after him might in that re­spect, receiue some preiudice in his Title to suc­ceede him: he (the said King) entreated the Pope, [Page 116] for the legitimation of his issue, whereunto hee yeelded: the deciding of any mans right or inte­rest to a Kingdome, no wayes properly belong­ing to the Pope, but casually, as here it hapned, when the King was contented to referre it vnto him, and might haue done it himselfe, but that he thought when the Pope ioined with him, that which they did together would bee of greater force.

113 This will appeare more plainely by Inno­centius his owne words in an other suite of the same nature made vnto him; where a Gentleman of Montpeliar, hauing likewise put away his wife, and married another, by whom he had children, Ibidem & in glossa. was encouraged, by the example of the King of France, to labour to the Pope, of the legitima­ting of his children in like sort, quatenus eis natali­um obiectio, ceu exceptio non noceret, quo minàs sibi succederent: that the exception against their birth might not hurt them, but that they should bee his heires. But Innocentius denying his suite, amongst some other reasons, why hee so did, vsed these: ‘that the King of Fraunce had no superiour in his Kingdome in Temporall causes, but this Gentle­man was a Subject: that the King of Fraunce might without any mans hurt, referre the said matter to the Pope, which this Gentleman could not doe in his cause: that the King did neede the consent of no man, for the approouing of that which the Pope had done on his behalfe; where­as if he the said Innotentius should legitimate this [Page 117] Gentlemans children, it would not availe him, with­out the assent of the King, or Lord his superiour: that the King had power in that point to submit him­selfe to the Popes iurisdiction, which this Gen­tleman had not: and that the King might (in some mens opinions) of himselfe haue legitimated his said sonne and daughter, without any assistance from the Pope. So as this Gentlemans cause was farre vnlike the Kings.’ Hereof Innocentius himselfe did write to the said Gentleman in this sort: Insuper cùm Rex superiorem in temporalibus mi­nimè Ibidem. Per venerabilem. & citatur à Bellar. de Rom. Pontif. lib. 5. cap. 3. recognoscat, sine iuris alterius loesione, in eo se iu­risdictioni nostrae subijcere potuit, in quo videretur ali­quibus, quòdper seipsum (non tanquam pater cum filijs, sed tanquam Princeps cum subditis) potuit dispensare: tuautem nosceris alijs subiacere, vnde sine-ipsorum for­san iniuriâ, nisi praestarent nobis assensum, in hoc subde­re te non posses: That is, Moreouer inasmuch as the king doth acknowledge no superious in temporall causes, hee might lawfully in that matter, without any mans preiudice, submit himselfe to our iurisdiction, wherein (as some hold) he might by his owne authority, (not as a fa­ther with his children, but as a prince with his subiects) haue himselfe dispensed but you are knowen to be subiect vnto others, and therefore without some iniury perad­uenture vnto them, except they should yeeld their as­sent, you cannot in this case submit your selfe vnto vs: And this is that casuall authoritie, (this Exami­nate saith) which he attributeth to the Pope, out of S. Peters patrimony, in other Princes king­domes, for his dealing in those causes that are [Page 118] temporall, and doe not otherwise belong vnto him, to intermedle with, as he is Christs Vicar, but as they are compromitted and referred vnto him.

114 It was here againe required of this Exa­minate, that he should a little further open his mind in this point, whether in his iudgement, the subjects of any Christian king may lawfully re­ferre any temporall causes, especially such as ei­ther concerne the commonwealth, or their king, vnto the Popes determination, without the kings consent; because it is held by many (as it hath been formerly touched in part out of Mancinus) that they may; when otherwise they can receiue no such ordinary course of Iustice, as they thinke they ought, or when they account it most expe­dient for the Commonwealth. To which pur­pose sundry examples are alledged, and amongst them this particularly, of the proceeding once in France, with their king. Hildericus king of France reigning (as it was thought) vnprofitably, and Pepinus in his gouernement vnder him, greatly contenting the Realme, the chiefe of the Nobili­tie, in their desire to remoue him, and aduance Pepinus vnto his place, being not ignorant, that if they could procure the Pope (who was then in these Westerne parts of great reputation) to con­curre therein with them, it would greatly surther their designement, and the better content, both the people, and the Clergie; did send an Embas­sage 1 [...]. Maior. disi. 24. quaest. 2. [...]. to Pope Zachary, then Bishop of Rome, desi­ring to know of him, an ille deberet regnare, qui otio [Page 119] torpebat, an ille, qui aestum dieiportabat; whether he ought to reigne, who was altogether idle, or he that did indure the heate of the day. To whom the Pope answered: quòd posterior regnare deberet, that the later ought to reigne. Whereupon the Nobilitie deposed Hilderick, and created Pepinus their king.

115 Now forasmuch as this example is com­monly vsed for an argument, that the Pope may thus deale casually, in temporalibus: and that there­upon it is ordinarily concluded, that the Pope by such a casualty may depose kings, and set vp o­thers in their roomes: if hee this Examinate should meane, that such a reference, or compro­mitting of a cause to the Pope, by one side; with­out the assent of the other, (as it is not likely, that Hildericus was euer willing to commit to the Pope his title to the kingdom, whether he should remaine king, or one of his subiects should get it from him) were a lawfull occasion offered, for the Pope to deale casually in temporalibus, as an Arbitrator: that which hee hath before said of his meaning, how the Pope might deale in such like causes casualiter, doeth crosse that which for­merly he hath deliuered, or rather indeed is flat­ly repugnant vnto it. And therefore he this Exa­minate was vrged to explicate this difficulty.

116 Whereunto for answere, he saith, That in his opinion, this was a needelesse doubt, in that his words before were plaine, when he deliuered the answere of Innocentius to the Gentleman of [Page 120] Montpeliar; hee this Examinate hauing neuer heard of such a kind of compromitting a cause to any, by one part, without the consent of the o­ther: and that therefore he holdeth it, as vnlaw­full for the Pope, in such a kind of reference, as a­boue is specified, without the Kings consent, to take any temporall cause into his hands, to be or­dered by him, as it was for him to haue made le­gitimate the children of the said gentleman (as is before mentioned) which Innocentius acknow­ledged he might not doe. And as touching the example alledged, for the deposing of Hildericus, this Examinate further saith, that he concurreth in iudgement with Iohannes de Parisijs, Io. Maior, Iacobus Almain, & Adam Blackwood, with diuers o­thers, Blackwood apol pag. 201. & 202. who writing of that fact, say, that it was not lawfull: that the Pope did yeeld to an iniury, and was not ignorant, the example to be pernicious, so to let slacke the raines to the people for the changing of Scepters, and to preferre a stranger, with the iniury of their own lawfull king: that this fact (being singular) ought to obtaine no force of a law: that wee are to liue by lawes, and not by examples: that we ought not so much to regard what is done, as what ought to be done.

117 That the Nobility of France sent to the Pope, because the Vniuersitie of Paris did not then Ioh. Maior in lib. 4. sent. dist. 24. apud Ger­sonem. flourish; insinuating that if it had, they had gone no further, but relied vpon their iudgement: that where it is said, that Zacharie did depose Hilde­ricke, it is thus to be vnderstood, viz: that he was aliqua causa motiua, a certaine mouing cause, why [Page 121] the Noblemen of France deposed him; that from such particulars, quae ex deuotion ad Ecclesiam, & non debito juris fiunt, which are done of deuotion to the Church, and not by any right of law, nothing is to be drawen in consequence, as neither from many other examples, where Emperours did chuse the Bishops of Rome; and likewise, that some Bishops of Rome had beene deposed by Emperors, and (as the Ecclesiasticall historie reciteth,) many Bishops did referre their com­plaints to Constantine, ex quibus nullum potest sumi argumentum, from which examples no argu­ment can be drawen.

118 That the Canon Alius, dist. 15. q. 6. which Iacobus Al­main de potest. Eccles. & laicâ. quaest. 2. cap. 8. Magna glossa Canon. Alius dist. 15. q. 6. saith that Pope Zacharie deposed the king of France, and placed Pepin the father of Charles in his roome, is thus to bee vnderstood: Zacharias deposuit Re­gem, id est, deponentibus consensit: Zacharie de­posed the king, that is, gaue his consent to them that de­posed him: that then there was no Vniuersity at Paris, the same beeing afterwardes erected in the dayes of Charles the great: and that thereupon there being few learned men in France, they had recourse to the Pope, & sic deposuit, id est, consensit vti possent deponere, & sic non deposuit authoritatiuè, that so he deposed Hildericke, that is, he gaue his consent, that the Nobilitie of France might depose him, and that the Pope did not depose him by any authority.

119 That the Pope did neuer depose the king of Ioh. de Parisiis de potest. regia & Papali. cap. 13. France, except that which Zacharie did, in the de­position of Hildericus, may bee expounded depo­suit, id est, deponentibus consensit, sicut ex­ponit [Page 122] glossa: Zacharie deposed the King, that is, hee gaue his consent to those that did depose him, as the glosse doth expound it: that from such singular facts of deuotion to the Church or to the person, or of fauour, or for some other cause, and not in right of law, arguments may not bee made: that whereas it is read in histories that Boniface obtained of Phocas the Emperour, that the Church of Rome should be the head of all Churches, because the Church of Constantinople did write her­selfe so; it might bee collected by such a like argument, that it appertained to the Emperour to transferre the primacie of one Church to another: as likewise, where­as Isidore saith, that Constantine the Emperour did decree that the See of Rome should hold the principali­tie ouer the foure chiefe Sees, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and Hierusalem: God forbid, that thereupon we should say, that the Church of Rome hath her Primacy ouer Churches, and the disposition of them, from Emperours. So as, this Examinate saith, that which was done, as touching the deposition of Hildericke the king of France, doth no way alter his opinion before shewed touching the Popes authoritie in temporalibus casualiter; when they are lawfully referred vnto him, as in the Sect. 113. he hath specified.

120 Here this Examinate was put in minde of certaine wordes of his, in the said 113. Section; where saying that the Pope, as hee is Christs vicar, could not otherwise deale in temporalibus casuali­ter, then as here he hath said: he seemeth to insi­nuate, that in some other respect hee might deale [Page 123] in temporall causes with Kings, for the deposing of them, and proceeding with their subiects, as hath bene before diuers times mentioned. And the rather it so seemeth, in that he hauing before cited out of Mancinus, how the Pope hath autho­ritie to proclaime warre, and so become a man at armes, did let that point passe him without an­swere vnto it.

121 For satisfaction whereof, this Examinate saith, that in his iudgement, it is as lawfull for the Pope to make warre within his own Territories, which he holdeth as a Temporall Prince, when he is driuen thereunto, through the disobedience of his subiects, or in their defence against other Princes, as it is for any King or ciuill State so to doe, vpon such or the like occasions: and that Ia­cobus Gretzerus saith well (if this Examinate doth rightly vnderstand him) to this purpose, and to the iustification of all in effect, which this Exami­nate hath set downe, throughout the whole course of this his Examination, touching his de­niall of the Popes authoritie (either directly, as he is Pope, or indirectly in ordine ad spiritualia, as he is Summus Princeps spiritualis, the Supreme spiritu­all Prince) to depose Kings, and release their sub­iects from the oathes of their allegeance, &c. where he writeth in this sort: Cogit Pontifex Ro­manus poenis externis spiritualibus, vt Excommunica­tione: Gretzerus de­fens. controuers. Bellar. colum. 1404. item poenis externis temporalibus, & corporali­bus, quà & ipse est Princeps politicus, & quà Prin­cipum politicorum opem implorare potest, vt haeretico­rum [Page 124] petulantiam & licentiam poenis temporalibus compescant: that is, That the Bishop of Rome hath authoritie to compell men by outward spirituall punishments, as by Excommunication, and also by outward temporal and corporal punishments, as he is himselfe a ciuill Prince, and as he may im­plore the assistance of other ciuill Princes, that they may represse by temporall punishments the wantonnesse and liberty of heretikes.

122 And this Examinate also further saieth, that for ought he can Iudge, whereas some ex­ceptions were taken to the Popes sending of cer­taine small forces into Ireland, about the yeere 1580. to assist the Earle of Desmond: Cardinall Allen in answere of them doth politically iustifie that his fact, where hee writeth in this manner: The chiefe Bishops of Christs Church, our supreme Pa­stors in earth, by Gods prouidence, and by the graunts of Card. Allens answere to the English Iustice. pag. 144. our first most Christian Emperours and Kings, and by the humble and zealous deuotion of the faithfull Prin­ces and people afterwards, haue their temporall states, dominions, and patrimonies, whereby they most iustly holde and possesse the same, and are thereby lawfull Princes temporall, and may most rightfully by their So­ueraigntie make warres, in their owne and other mens iust quarrell, as occasion shall vrge them there vnto.

123 By reason of diuers particulars deliuered by this Examinate in this his answere to the last doubt propounded vnto him, it was first deman­ded of him, whether in his iudgement the Pope hath authority to command any king, being held [Page 125] for a Catholicke, to take armes against any his neighbour kings, deemed by him for heretickes, for the suppressing of them by temporall coer­tions, when the Pope shall iudge it fit: because it might seeme very strange for any man to con­ceiue, that Christ euer gaue to S. Peter any iuris­diction, authoritie, or power, in fauour of religi­on, to set kings together by the eares. It might haue some probabilitie, that if a king, who disal­loweth of the Popes supremacie, and of many o­ther corrupt points of popish doctrine, should send his forces into any other temporall princes dominions, to make warres, of purpose to abo­lish the Popes authoritie, and plant there the re­formed religion by him professed; then in this case, the Pope might sollicite some other kings adioyning, to oppose them selues & make warres against him. But to imagine, that when a King proceedeth no further, then to order matters in his owne kingdome, by the aduise of the States thereof both Ecclesiasticall and Temporall, as it shalbe iudged by him and them most expedient: any Bishop or Spirituall person whosoeuer may take vpon him to proclaime or excite warre, and thrust other kings to assaile him by force in his owne kingdome and countrey: euery such con­ceit wanteth authoritie in the new Testament, and hath no example for many yeeres in the pu­rest and best times of the Church, and besides it is repugnant to that which this Examinate hath be­fore deliuered. For kingdomes being neither [Page 126] founded vpon faith nor grace, how can they be shaken, vnder pretence that either of them is im­pugned? Christianitie may well be thought to binde a king, who reckoneth himselfe subiect to the Bishop of Rome in spirituall causes, in them to submit him selfe vnto him: but to command him to make warre, and thereby hazard peraduenture his owne kingdome, or spend the blood either of his owne Subiects, or of the subiects of any other Christian King, when the Pope thinketh good; is a very bloodie and an vnchristian opinion.

124 Vnto this question and the parts thereof, this Examinate saith, that he beleeueth, that all Christian Kings and Princes are bound to doe, what they can for the maintenance of the Ca­tholicke faith, (whether the Pope doeth require them so to doe, or not) against any that doe en­deauour to suppresse it. But he holdeth that such their duetie bindeth them no further, then so to maintaine religion within their owne kingdoms, if need be, and not to make warre in that respect against any, who doe containe themselues and their proceedings aforesaid, within their owne bounds, and doe not seeke by force to suppresse, in any other Countries, that are adiacent vnto them, the Religion there established, otherwise then in his owne. But withall he addeth, that he holdeth it to be the duetie of all such Catholike kings, to do what they can with any King auerse from the Pope, for the winning of him vnto his Holinesse by perswasion, and by euery other [Page 127] good meanes: but in no wise by the sword, or by solliciting his Subiects to rebellion, or to make a part of his owne Kingdome against him, or otherwise to endanger his Person, Crowne, or State. Besides, for as much as (this Examinate saith) he beleeueth, that the Pope hath no inhe­rent authoritie in himselfe in temporalibus, out of S. Peters patrimonie, and that the regall authori­tie is not deriued from the Pope, or held imme­diatly of him; hee doeth not find, how the Pope, as he is either a Spirituall, or a ciuill Prince, hath authoritie to command the sword of any Kings otherwise then by entreatie, and in the cases by him this Examinate aboue specified; or that they are bound by force of their Baptisme, to obey him, if so he doe command them.

125 Secondly, were it granted to this Exa­minate, that the Pope, as a Ciuill Prince, might lawfully haue sent his forces into Ireland as is a­foresaid, and denounce warre when he thinketh it expedient, against any King, as Cardinall Allen hath written: yet it is fit, that this Examinate should open himselfe in his dutie to his Maiestie, whether in his iudgement, when the Pope will needes take vpon him to play the temporall Prince, and become a warriour, hee holdeth it to bee at such times more lawfull, and agreeable to the Scriptures, either for the Pope, or for any of his instruments, to perswade the Subiects of any King, with whom hee contendeth, that because hee is a Protestant (as that generall name is [Page 128] growen in vse) and denieth the Popes suprema­cie, and embraceth the Religion reformed, and purged of sundry grosse errours, and points of superstition, and is thereupon either by name, or in generall termes by vertue of some other Buls, Excommunicated, or because he seeketh to alter the ancient Religion, which formerly they, or their forefathers did professe, therefore it is law­full for them, nay, that they are bound in con­science to renounce their obedience vnto him, and to assist the Popes forces: then it is lawfull for the Emperour, or some other Kings (whose predecessours had made the Pope a Ciuil prince, by bestowing vpon him so large possessions) when they haue resolued of a warlike course a­gainst him, to perswade his Subiects, and autho­rize them, to ioyne with them, and to beare armes against him, vpon these or any other such like suggestions, viz: that the Pope abused his place, and behaued himselfe otherwise, then of ancient times his predecessours had done: that it was neuer the meaning either of their former re­nowmed Emperours, or of any other Kings, or of the most famous Romanes, and Italians their Noble progenitors (who once gouerned the chiefest part of the world) that thereby he should take courage, and boldnesse to encounter (as hee did) with them their successours, or to tyrannize, as his custome was, ouer them his pretended Subiects, and ouer their sometimes so glorious a Citie: and that therefore, if they would ioyne [Page 129] their forces with theirs, they would restore them vnto their ancient honours and libertie.

126 To this question this Examinate saith, that it is a point of State, how and when Princes may make warres, but he is sure, that they ought not so to doe, except the cause be iust. Againe he cōfesseth, that as some hold, the Pope may depose no secular Prince, though he abuse his authoritie in perniciem Christianitatis & fidei, to the destructi­on Iacob. Almain de potest. Ec­clesiasticâ & Laicâ. Quaest. 1. cap. 9. of Christianitie or of the faith: but may onely declare him worthy to be deposed, and therefore forbid his subiects vnder paine of Excommuni­catiō, to performe any dutie vnto him, wherby in effect hee looseth his kingdome, when no man doth regard him: so they doe thinke, that in the same sort, if the Pope doe abuse his authoritie, Idem ibidem. Quaest 2. cap. 8. in detrimentum Reipublicae, to the detriment of the Common wealth, the Emperour may depose him, vnder paine of confiscation of all his tempo­rall goods, which hee holdeth of the Emperour, and of the king as a vassall: and that by vertue of such a Sentence giuen by the Emperour, they to whom it appertaineth, shall in the end bee com­pelled, to remoue him from his authoritie of the high Bishopricke. But of these and such like points, this Examinate saith he wil not take vpon him to iudge: onely hee acknowledgeth that so farre, as his reading and learning stretcheth, hee doth in his conscience verily beleeue, touching the said question to him propounded, as here en­sueth.

[Page 130] 127 That neither the Pope hath any autho­ritie to depose the Emperour, nor the Emperour to depose the Pope: they may deale one with another, for reforming of abuses, but they ought not to proceede to such extremities: that as hee hath before oftentimes said, that the Pope hath no authority at all by any waies or meanes what­soeuer, giuen vnto him Iure diuino, to depose any Protestant king, or Soueraigne Prince, nor to ab­solue his subiects from their Allegeance, nor to authorize them, or command them, to beare armes against him: so neither may hee lawfully, when he commeth or sendeth, as a Ciuill Prince, his forces and men of warre, to assaile any such king in his owne Countrey (though he take that course in defence of Religion) seeke to perswade the subiects of such a King, to rebell against him, by ioyning their forces with the Popes; or if hee or any of his instruments so doe, suggesting, that otherwise they shall incurre the Popes curse, yet they the said subiects ought not to regard it, but remaine still as firmely bound, to obey their King, and take part with him, as if the Pope had neuer conceiued any displeasure against him.

128 That therefore hee must needs confesse, the positions following to be very vnsound, and repugnant vnto the Scriptures, and the ancient Catholicke doctrine, which is alwaies to be pre­ferred, before mens new deuises, be they for their learning and places, neuer so eminent in the Church.

[Page 131] 129 It is godly and honourable to fight in such order Card. Allen. a True de­fence. pag. 103. and time, as we are warranted in conscience, and law by our Supreme Pastours and Priests.

130 In warres, that may at any times happen for re­ligion, Card. Allen. letter to Stan­ley. pag. 37. euery Catholike man is bound in conscience, to employ his person and forces, by direction of such as are vertuous & intelligent in such cases, but especially, &c. of Christs Vicar in earth, whose soueraigne power and authoritie &c. may best instruct and warrant a Christi­an Souldier, how farre, when, and where, either at home, or abroade, in ciuill or forreine warres, made a­gainst the enemies or rebels of Gods Church, he may and must breake with his temporall Soueraigne.

131 Furthermore this Examinate saith, that he cannot chuse, but confesse from his heart, that he doeth dislike and disallow all the Arguments, Card. Allens Admonition to the Nobilitie of England. published in a booke about the yeere 1588. Which did tend to perswade the late Queenes subiects to take part with the forces of the king of Spaine, because she was deposed by the Popes Sentence, and in some other respects therein mentioned: and likewise all the perswasions and resolutions, which were sent into Ireland during the late rebellion of the Earle of Tyrone, either from Salamanca, or from any place else, tending to the same purpose with the former: for ex­ample.

132 That the late Queene being deposed, and her D. Iohn D'A­quila his Pro­clamation. Subiects absolued from the oath of their fidelitie, by the highest Bishop, vnto whom hee that reigneth in the highest, the King of kings had giuen all power, to plucke [Page 132] vp, destroy, plant, and edifie, ita vt ipsos Reges tem­porales, si ad spirituale aedificium expedierit, vs (que) ad depositionem à Regno puniat, so as he may pu­nish temporall kings, if it be auaileable to spirituall edi­fication, be it to the deposition from their kingdomes: the Irish were bound by the commandements of God, and the obedience which they did owe to the highest Bi­shop, to toyne with Don Iohn D'Aquila, sent thithey from the King of Spaine by the Popes intreatie.

133 That for asmuch as the Bishop of Rome had Ibidem. now procured forces to be sent vnto them (the Irish) for the defence of their faith, they should all vpon no­tice of the said Don Iohns proclamation, with all their power come vnto him: and that he would prosecute to death as heretiques and hatefull enemies to the Church all those, who contemning his counsell, should continue their obedience vnto the English.

134 That it was lawfull for the Bishop of Rome, Determinat. Salaman [...]. 1602. by force of armes to punish those, who doe oppugne the Catholtcke faith: that the warre vndertaken by Ty­rone, authoritate summi Pontificis, by the Popes authoritie, against the late Queene, that oppugned the Catholicke faith, was iust: and that all the Catholicks were bound to ioyne with him, with a great merit and hope of the greatest eternall retribution: that they de­serued as much thereby, as if they bare armes against the Turke: that all those Catholickes did sinne mortal­ly, that did follow the tents of the English against Ty­rone: that they could neuer obtaine euerlasting salua­tion, nor bee absolued from their sinnes by any Priest, except they did first repent, and forsake the English: [Page 133] that the same iudgement likewise was to bee giuen of them, who in that warre did fauour the English with armes, and prouision, paid their ancient tributes, or did contribute any thing vnto them: and that they, who fo­lowed Tyrone, were no rebels, nor denied any obedi­ence, that was due, nor did vsurpe vniustly the landes of the Queene, but did rather by a most iust warre, free their Countrey from a wicked Tyrant, and defend the Catholicke faith, as it became Christians and Catho­lickes.

135 With the consideration of these things, this Examinate saith, his very heart is wounded, finding such strength of wit, & pretences of reli­gion so intolerably abused to the effusiō of blood, and for priuate respects, such as in his conscience, God doth not allow, nor the doctrine of the Ca­tholicke Church (agreed vpon) doth approoue. And he is the more moued herewith, (he auow­eth) partly because so many worthy English wri­ters haue of later yeeres, runne into this violent course, labouring to vpholde it with all their strength and abilitie of learning: and partly for that hee feareth (except it may please God, to moue the Popes heart, for the staying of it) what issue it will haue in the end Sanguis petit sangui­nem: blood will haue blood. The Church did encrease by the suffrings of Martyrs: but it may perhaps decrease, by seeking of blood. That hi­therto was neuer accounted the seede of the Church. And touching the reasons from Spaine, carry what colour they shall, yet neuer was it [Page 134] heard of before (for ought this Examinate hath read) that the subiects of any King might not as­sist their Soueraigne in his warres without the Popes allowance. And besides, it is not likely, that the king of Spaine will in his princely iudge­ment approue, that as D. Iohn D'aquila saith, the Pope may depose any king from his Crowne, if it be expedient for the Church. If the Irish had not engaged themselues too farre in the rebelli­on then on foote, before this Spanish Generall his Proclamation, they could neuer out of doubt haue bene much moued with it. It was the con­quering of the Kingdome for his Master, that he aimed at; or otherwise, their faith for him might haue lien in the dust. Kings haue their owne ends in such cases, and not the Popes. Nei­ther was the determination of Salamanca of any greater weight. The authors of it sought to pro­mote their Soueraignes affaires, as if they had bene better Statesmen, then Diuines. For it will hardly appeare either in the Scriptures, or in any ancient Father or Councel, that subiects did euer merite heauen, by bearing of armes against their Soueraignes.

136 Here this Examinate was further put in minde of the charge, which is imposed vpon the Romish priests, now (as it seemeth) vnder his go­uernement, how they are to proceede for the ad­uancement of the Catholicke faith. Thus here­of diuers haue written, being men of great esti­mation.

[Page 135] 137 The zeale and duetie of Gods Priests is notably Card. Allen Admon. pag. 32. & 33. commended vnto vs in the cause of Athalia, &c. whom Ichoiada the high Priest, calling vnto him for­ces both of the Priests and people, caused to be slaine: loe this is the Zeale and authoritie of Priests, for the maintenance of righteousnesse and religion.

138 Priests and Prophets haue bene principall wor­kers Idem ibidem pag. 34. and Gods ministers in the depriuation of princes: wherein the Prophet Elie was so notorious, that to his honour it is thus saide of him in holy writ: Hee cast downe kings and destroyed them: and of Elizeus in the same place, thus: He neuer feared prince, nor could of no man be ouercome. And thus it was in the old Testament.

139 That in the new Testament the Priestes haue Idem ibidem pag. 34. & 35. much more soueraigne authoritie, and the prince, farre streighter charge to obey, loue, and cherish the Church: that now euery kingdome that doeth not serue her, shall perish: and that now Prelats haue authoritie to forbid vs the companie of heretiques, idolaters, blasphemers, and not so much as to salute them, much more not to o­bey them.

140 That when by the impietie of the prince, the Stapleton alias Rossaeus de iustâ Reipub. Christianae au­thoritate, &c. pag. 638. state of religion, and of the Church is brought into dan­ger: then it is the duetie of godly men, and Monkes, peragrare ciuitates &c. to goe from citie to citie, and from prouince to prouince, to admonish, exhort, and sol­licite all Christian men to that manly constancie and fortitude, which doeth not onely consist in wordes, but in deeds, and to preach, that all oathes and couenants made vnto kings against the Catholicke faith, are of no force, [Page 136] nor ought to be obserued by a Christian man.

141 That Priests ought to bee the first, that must Will. Raynolds de iustâ abdi­catione, Henr. 3. pag. 57. & 58. leaue the oppressour of religion, and become therein an example vnto others: that so Iehoiada the Priest, ar­ming the Leuites in the Temple against Athalia, gaue vnto the Centurions, lances, shields, and the targets of king Dauid; and placing without the Temple the people with daggers, commaunded her to bee slaine: that Elie the Prophet did kill 450. false prophets, whe­ther the king and Queene would or not: that Azarias the priest with 80. priests valiant men did resist Oziah then king, the vsurper of the sacred ministerie; and first thrust him out of the Temple, being made a leper, and then out of his kingdome: that the Maccabees, men of the priestly stocke, valiantly fighting against tyrants for the law of God, haue long since giuen a worthy and a notable example vnto priests and Christian preachers, of exciting men to warre and armes against tyrants to religion, whether domesticall or forreigne.

142 And in another place, the saide Stapleton: Stapleton aliâs Rossaeus lib. citato pag. 579. Are Bishops (saith he) bound to instruct such as are committed to their charge, that they should refraine from the conuersation of an hereticall king; that they ought not to assist him, either in warre, or peace; that all men, being ignorant, yea, idiots ought to learne to reason after this sort, Such a man is an heretique, and therefore he hath no power ouer vs that bee Catholiques: and are not noble men likewise bound, to instruct their seruants that they ought to resist such an heretique, now no king, as hee who hath no right to his kingdome, but a tyrant, or a thiefe iniustly vsurping do­minion [Page 137] ouer them? Doeth the holy Ghost teach vs, that the hate of an heretique is to bee offered vnto God for a great sacrifice, and that we are to auoid him as a canker; and yet shall it be held vnlawfull to resist that canker, which endeuoureth to corrupt vs, and to repell his force from vs with our swords, who are commanded to cut off our owne flesh, if it be infected with such a canker?

143 Vpon the hearing of these particulars: Alas, Alas (quoth this Examinate) what meane you to increase my sorrow? I haue said enough before to shew you, how much I doe detest these kinde of positions, as being infected, if not with a canker, yet with many vntrueths. The exam­ples in them are strangely wrested, and doe not proue that which is intended by them. God him­selfe, & not Samuel did appoint, that Dauid should succeed king Saul: but it was farre from both their intentions, that Saul should be deposed: and so he continued king, as long as he liued. Iehoia­da the high Priest tooke part with the kings sonne, the heire apparant to the Crowne, where­in he dealt as a dutifull subiect, and as all Priests and subiects ought to deale in the like case. And what kings did the Prophet Elie cast downe and destroy? He said vnto Achab, as a Prophet inspi­red Lyra super 48. Ecclesiastici. with knowledge, of things to come, that in the place where dogs licked vp the blood of Naboth, they should licke vp his blood also. And in like sort vnto Ochozia; because thou hast sent messengers to aske counsell of Belzebub, the god of Acharon, there­fore thou shalt not descend from the bed, wherupon thou [Page 138] liest, but shalt die. Thus Lyra doth expound those words: and Hugo Cardinalis also to the same ef­fect, Cardinalis in eundem locum. saying: Thou didst cast downe kings (i) deijci­endos praedixisti: thou didst foretell they should bee cast downe; Adperniciem (i) propter perniciem suam: for their wickednes: Et fregisti facilè potentiam ip­sorum, and thou didst easily breake their power, that is, confringendam praedixisti, thou didst fore­tell their power should bee broken. And in like sort, both of them doe expound the words, tou­ching Elizeus, how being a Prophet, hee was not afraid of Iehoshaphat, the king of Iuda, to doe the message of God vnto him, nor of the messengers of the king of Assyria, that came to apprehend him. The prophets that were slaine, were con­uicted miraculously from heauen, to bee false prophets: and thereupon through Elias motion, which was agreeable to the law of God, the peo­ple with the Kings consent (for otherwise it is more then probable he might haue withstood it) did kill them. Whereas therefore it is said that Elias slew them: Lyra saith, that he did it per popu­lum sibi in hoc assistentem, by the people therein as­sisting him; adding therewith, fortè occîdit aliquos manu propriâ, peraduenture he slew some of them with his owne hands. But that is but a gesse: and peraduenture he did not. And touching Azarias, Genebrard. Chronol. de Azarià. being about the 27. yeere of his reigne strucken with leprosie, he liued apart out of Ierusalem, ac­cording to the law. But yet hee continued king 25. yeeres after, the text it selfe making mention [Page 139] of the 38. 39. 50. and 52. yeres, wherein he is said to reigne as king of Iuda, though by reason of his disease Ioathan his sonne gouerned his palace, and the whole land vnder him: the yeeres of whose reigne afterwards began not to bee recko­ned, till his father was dead; and then being (as Theodoret obserueth) haeres regni, the heire of the Theodoret. in lib. 4. Reg. kingdome, he did succeed his father, and reigned 16. yeeres. And concerning the Maccabees, they were in their times great princes, and fought va­liantly both for God and their countrey, against certaine neighbour kings, especially of Egypt and Assyria, who did mightily trouble and afflict the whole land of Canaan, as all true hearted English men were to doe, if any king or prince vpon any pretence whatsoeuer, should attempt by force to subdue his Maiestie, and his dominions, thereby to bring them into seruitude and slauerie.

144 Also for the new Testament (this Exa­minate saith) though the Priesthood cannot be too much magnified (as the humours of men are now adayes) neuerthelesse it hath no such blou­die courses annexed vnto it, as the said authours (otherwise very worthy persons in their times) doe pretend. Christ indeed, and so also his Apo­stles went from place to place, from citie to citie, and from countrey to countrey, preaching and planting the true Catholicke faith, which contai­neth the doctrine of obedience to Kings and So­ueraigne Magistrates. And where there was one Christian then, if there had bene a thousand, and [Page 140] so proportionably for euery one; neither Christ, nor any of his Apostles would haue moued them to any armes, or disobedience against the ciuill Magistrates, although they were at that time ve­ry great persecutors, and impugners of the Gos­pel. The like may also be said for the ages succee­ding: when such going from place to place, and preaching, as doctor Stapleton speaketh of, would of a certeintie haue beene vtterly condemned. And how glad (saith hee this Examinate) should I haue beene, if these kindes of positions, now vrged vpon me, had beene left to Buchananus and such of his followers, as haue runne that race? And therefore he humbly desired, that he might be no further troubled with these vncatholicke and bloudie nouelties, the same being most re­pugnant to the duety and office of a true Catho­licke priest: and the rather, because his intermed­ling so much with them (though hee could not wel choose, except he should haue spoken against his conscience) doeth tend more (he feareth) to his particular discredite, then (as many men doe now stand affected) to any such religious vse or edification, as this Examinate wisheth, that all his words and workes might euer effect, and attaine vnto.

145 Here it being held conuenient to demand of him this Examinate, whether he thought, that vpon the occasion offered vnto him, and charge laid vpon him in his Maiesties name, to deliuer his conscience and iudgement, as well in these [Page 141] last points propounded vnto him, as likewise in all the premisses of this his Examination, hee should by the discharging of his duety therein, grow to any discredite either with priests, or Lay Catholickes: and not rather, that if all he had de­liuered should happen to be published, it would procure him more fauour, and greater reputati­on with them: he answereth, that of the last point (the increase of his credite) he hath small hope, and that he hath alreadie felt some experience of the former, in that there being but a suspicion al­readie cast abroad, that he continueth in the iu­stification of the lawfulnesse to take the oath of Allegeance, the very conceit of it, before they be acquainted with that which hee hath said in this his Examination, doeth much offend many, as hee hath beene informed, and as in his priuate estate he doeth very sensibly feele. Neither can he (as he saith) expect from them any thing else, but discontentment, and grudging against him, whiles the Popes Briefes procured by surreption and false suggestions (as hee thinketh in his con­science) doe preuaile so much with them, or vn­till it shall please God to abate the heate of some spirits, and replenish all their hearts with true knowledge in these matters, and with greater humilitie and patience, then now he saith he can well boast of.

146 Lastly, forasmuch as it is most euident to his Maiestie, and the State, viz: how the Catho­lickes in England doe now stand affected: how [Page 142] they do generally dislike the oath of Allegeance: how of late fewe of the Laitie (in respect of the multitude) will yeeld to take it: how since the Popes Breues came ouer, the priests, all of them almost doe impugne it, and disswade all Catho­lickes from taking of it; and how they labour and trauaile hither and thither, preaching and teaching, that the Pope hath authoritie to de­pose his Maiestie, to absolue his subiects from their oathes of Allegeance, to authorize them thereupon to beare armes against him, and to machinate all the mischiefe they can against his State and Person: that although his Ma­iestie be not excommunicated by name, yet (by their doctrine) hee standeth excommunicate in generall termes by sundry Bulles, in that hee al­loweth not of the Popes Supremacie, &c. and that therefore, if opportunitie serue, they may set on foote any wicked designement against him: And furthermore, how when they pro­fesse obedience vpon any occasion, it is but dis­sembled, and doth bind them no longer, but vn­till they shallbe able, by reason of their numbers and strength, to encounter his Maiestie, without any great daunger to themselues: How there are many youthes daily sent ouer beyond the seas to become Priests, and being Priests, are euery yere sent backe hither, of purpose to increase the num­ber and strength of the said Catholickes: And how all such Priests, by vertue of their office, are bound to draw as many as they can, from their [Page 143] Allegeance to the King, and vpon euery fit oc­casion to stirre vp his subiects to mutinie and re­bellion, as is aboue mentioned: Forasmuch (it was said) as these points and many other such like are very euident and manifest: it was ear­nestly demaunded of this Examinate, hee being a man of yeeres; mature iudgement, and good dis­cretion, as hee was reputed by the Pope himselfe (it seemeth) and many others, when he was made Archpriest of England, and an Apostolicall pro­tonotarie, what course in his wisedome and con­science, he thinketh fit his Maiestie, and the State should holde, being resolued in religion as they are, to withstand those euils, which of necessitie in time must ensue, except either by punishments they be out of hand preuented, or that the Pope doe himselfe reclaime both Priests and Catho­licks from such inordinate, tumultuous, and trai­terous courses, giuing them libertie, so as they re­teine still their opinions of his pretended Supre­macie in spirituall causes, to take the othe of Alle­geance, that thereby they may secure his Maiestie and the State, of their obedience, dutie, and fide­litie both towards him, in all causes and matters temporall, and towards their natiue Countrey.

147 Vnto all which particulars, this Exami­nate answereth, that this is a matter farre aboue his reach: that he knoweth his Maiestie to be a King endowed with many singular vertues, a­mongst the which his mercie and clemencie are very eminent: that his Maiestie and the State [Page 144] are exceeding prouident to preuent all dangers: that the number of Priestes is nothing, if it bee compared to the number of Ministers, which are, and so will continue here in England; that there is no likelihood, that so few Priests in re­spect of the said Ministers should euer bee able to draw so many to the Pope, as they haue power and meanes to withhold men from him: that hee hopeth, if euer the Pope may be truely informed of the State of England, hee will inforce all Ca­tholickes, to holde a dutifull temper towards their Prince: that it may be, that in short time the heate of all disordered inuentions will bee quen­ched: that although men of youth and vigour de­lighting in nouelties, are likely enough to conti­nue a while heady; yet hee hath some hope, that the grauer sort will haue recourse to the ancient practise of the sincerest Catholickes: that gene­rally all the Catholickes in England, howsoeuer they are scrupulous in conscience, and may be a litle mislead, haue sincere & true hearts, vnto his Maiestie, and their Countrey: that he doubteth not, but these deuises, and phrases of deposing of Kings, and exciting of Subiectes to Rebelli­on, will grow both verbally and really out of vse, and bee forgotten: that this Examinate, as long as hee continueth Archpriest, will for his part, doe the vttermost of his power what hee can, to moue all Catholickes to continue their obedience, and duetie towardes his Ma­iestie, and not to giue eare to any thing that may [Page 145] tend to the contrary: that doing what he is able, there can no more bee well expected from him: that he hath in the whole course of this his long examination, deliuered his conscience and iudge­ment sincerely and truely, without any causion of what nature or kind soeuer: so as hee will ne­uer hereafter doubt, but that his Maiestie and the State will euer repute him (as indeede he is, and so will alwayes continue) a most loyall, faithfull, and duetifull subiect. And hereunto he addeth, that the remembrance, and due consideration of all the premisses hath wrought so with him, as he hath euen of conscience and compassion ouer some men otherwise affected, then they ought to bee (in his iudgement) directed his let­ter vnto all the Catholickes of England both Ec­clesiasticall and Lay, to the end, they may bet­ter bethinke themselues touching these points, and conforme all their cogitations and actions to such duety and obedience towards his Maiestie, as by the word of God they are bound: and as all the ancient Christians did, and all good Ca­tholickes still remaine obliged to doe. Where­upon he desired for Gods sake, that thus his Exa­mination might ende, and therein hee had his desire.

VEry Reuerend and my dearest beloued bre­thren, both Priests and people Catholike: four seruant in bands George Blakwell, lately your fel­low-labourer in Christs Vineyard, and your faithfull pastour and Archpriest, doe remember you alwayes in my prayers, that Almighty God, through our Lord Iesus Christ may graunt vnto you peace, patience, humilitie, and true obedi­ence, not onely to those, who haue the espe­ciall charge of your soules: but likewise to [Page 147] Ciuill Magistrates (according to his holy or­dinance) King Iames, our lawfull Soueraignè, and such as be in authoritie vnder him, vnto whom the protection of your bodies, goods, and liues is committed, that you may leade a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie.

You are not ignorant of the oppositions, and parts-taking, concerning the Oath of Al­legeance to his Maiestie, whether with a safe conscience it may be taken or not; nor how I haue bene blamed by diuers, and especially by Cardinal Bellarmine, a worthy and emi­nent man in the Church, for my iudgement, and former proceedings in that behalfe: nei­ther also, what the Popes holinesse hath sig­nified vnto you in his two Briefes, touching that matter. Which may peraduenture make you to wonder, and grow iealous of my sin­ceritie in the Catholicke faith, when you shall finde me, notwithstanding all that hitherto I haue either heard or seene, still to continue in my former opinion, and to acquaint you with it, accounting it my duetie both before God and the world so to doe.

I know what is conuenient, and profitable [Page 148] for the Church, and what authoritie the Bi­shops of Rome haue put in practise, with good successe and approbation, against sun­dry Emperours, Kings, and Princes, for many yeeres: and wish that the same had euer bin so mildly, and temperately vsed, as that it might neuer haue bene impugned, nor called in question by any. But now that this point is so throughly searched into, not only by our aduersaries, but by our selues likewise, & I be­ing pressed, as I haue bin, to deliuer my iudg­ment sincerely and truely, as in the sight of God, & accordingly to take the said oath: & since newly againe more earnestly vrged then before: how could I chuse but acknowledge what I thought, so farre as my learning rea­cheth, except I should haue sinned against mine owne conscience, and incurred there­by the wrath of God, who needeth by no vn­trueths to haue his Church and the honour of it vpheld, and mainteined by any.

It is one thing, what may be yeelded vn­to, and put in practise de facto, and by posi­tiue lawes; and another, what may truely be challenged iure diuino: which second branch is that, which is now amongst our owne bre­thren [Page 149] so controuerted, and diuersly defen­ded, as I feare greater preiudice will grow thereby to Catholicke religion, then is iudi­ciously, as yet foreseene, or prouided for, to be preuented. For it can neuer bee iustified (say what men list) that the doctrine of the Church doeth by any true exposition, or de­duction any way diminish or empeach the Soueraigntie, and honour of Emperors, kings and princes, but doeth indeed confirme and establish them: the contrary conceit where­of was falsly imputed to the Christians in the glorious ages of the Church, which did suc­ceed the Apostles, and ought still to be as much impugned and detested now, as it was then.

That which Cardinall Bellarmine hath writ­ten to this purpose, is sound and Catholicke, and will neuer by any quirke be auoided. Christ (saith he) did not, nor doeth take king­domes Bell. de Rom. Pont. lib. 5. cap. 3. from them, to whom they did belong. For Christ came not to destroy those things which were well setled, but to establish them. And therefore when a King becommeth a Christian, hee doeth not lose his earthly kingdome, which by right hee held, but purchaseth a new interest to an euerla­sting [Page 150] kingdome. Otherwise the benefites receiued by Christ should be hurtfull to Kings, and grace should destroy nature. And againe, Princes infidels are the true and supreme Princes of their Idem ibidem. cap. 2. kingdomes: for dominion is not founded either in grace, or in faith: so as the Pope hath no authori­tie to meddle with them. As long then as kings be Ethnickes, they are sure of their interest in their kingdomes, and of the obedience of their subiects; the very law of Nature doeth ratifie both: and can you conceiue, that as soone as they are become Christians, their case is altered, in the assurance of their tem­porall estates? Must it be pretended, that the benefite receiued by Christ, doeth no way preiudice the interest that Kings haue in their kingdomes: but when they haue submitted themselues to the doctrine of the Gospel, in hope of the kingdome of heauen, and to haue their states bettered, and their subiects setled, as touching their obedience, according to the precepts of Christ and his Apostles, agreea­bly vnto the morall Law of God: must then vpon any occasion, grace destroy nature, or dominion be shaken, which is not founded in faith? Thinke you, that it was euer the in­tent [Page 151] either of Constantine the great, or of any other Kings or Princes, to receiue the Gos­pel, or to ioyne their Regall authoritie with the Ecclesiasticall, thereby to strengthen Bi­shops in the execution of their offices, with any purpose, that the power Ecclesiasticall should swallow vp, depresse, or ouertop their temporall Soueraigntie?

Assuredly (my deare brethren) such cogi­tations as these are scandalous to Christiani­tie, and ought to make no impression in your soules, otherwise then to eschew them. Bap­tisme doth worke no such alteration in kings or any other: it tendeth to the destruction of the kingdome of Sathan, but doeth no way empaire or subiect vnto any their tem­porall estates, otherwise then as they shall be mooued in charitie, and honour, where they haue receiued spirituall blessings, there to be­stow their benefites and fauours temporall. The coniunction of the Church with tem­porall kingdomes to make one Christian bo­die, doeth make no other transmutations, nor confound their gouernments and functions; they doe still remaine distinct as they did be­fore; so as neither can any Emperour, King, [Page 152] or ciuill Magistrate, take vpon him the admi­nistration of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen, nor the execution of any other parts of priestly duties; nor any Priest, Bishop, or the Pope himselfe challenge, in right of the Church, and as they are Bishops, any interest or power in the temporall sword, to manage the same, as they thinke fit, either themselues, or by others at their direction: it being a power giuen onely by God vnto Kings and Princes, to take vengeance on them that doe euill, and to be yeelded vnto, not because of wrath onely, but also for conscience sake.

Neither may the words of God to the Pro­phet Ieremie, where hee saith, I haue set thee Ierem. cap. 1. ouer nations, and ouer kingdomes, to plucke vp, and to throw out, and to destroy, and throw down, to build, and to plant, be truely inforced to giue authoritie to his Holinesse, for the transfer­ring of kingdomes from one to another, or to depose kings, for any cause whatsoeuer, or to absolue their subiects from their allegeance, or to authorize them to beare armes against their Soueraignes, or to roote out, and destroy any kingdome, king, or prince, vnder pre­tence of building, or planting some other. [Page 153] This was farre differing from the meaning of the holy Ghost: which in my iudgement is more truely & syncerely expounded by that worthy Cardinall, Hugo Barcbionensis, about 368. yeeres since, (whether you will take the meaning of it literally or mystically) where he writeth in this sort: I haue placed thee ouer na­tions Hugo. Card. in Iere. cap. 1. and Kingdomes, vt euellas, (i) Iudaeos esse euellendos de terrâ suâ, enuncies: that thou may­est declare, that the Iewes are to be caried by force out of their countrey, & destruas (i) ciuitatem Ierusalem destruendam, & terram eorum, prophetes: that thou mayest foretell, the destru­ction of Ierusalem, and of their countrey: & dis­perdas (i) eos disperdendos à principibus Chaldaeorū, praedices: that thou mayest preach vnto them their dispersion by the princes of the Chaldaeans; & dissipes (i) dissipandum esse praedices regnum Iudaeorum per captiuita­tem, that thou mayest foretell the destruction of the kingdome of the Iewes, through their captiui­tie. And lest the Iewes might haue despaired, therefore he doth not onely foretel their captiuity, but likewise their deliuerance thence; adding & aedifices, (i) ciuitatem reae dificandam nuncies: that thou mayest assure them, their citie shall a­gaine [Page 154] be reedified; & plantes (i) Iudaeos ad­huc plantandos esse in Iudae &, praedices: that thou mayest foretell the Iewes, that they shall bee againe planted in their owne land. Hitherto the Cardinal, for the literall sense of Gods words vnto Ieremie: and then thus of them mysti­cally: That thou mayest pull vp vnprofitable berbes, that is, euill cogitations, by contrition; and destroy hurtfull delights, with pure confession, and dissolue sinnes ill growen together, by compe­tent satisfaction: and breake asunder the bands of euill custome, by good conuersation: and build vpon a sure rocke, by cumulation of merits; and mayest plant the tree of life in thy selfe, and in o­thers virtutum radicatione, by the ingrafting of vertues.

Out of question the Prophet Ieremie, who best vnderstood the meaning of God, when he spake vnto him, did not otherwise ouer­throw kings or kingdomes, or scatter, or de­stroy, or plant, or build vp any kings, people, or nations in his time, then as this worthy Cardinall hath literally expounded the said words: neither may they be further extended either literally or mystically, as of later times they haue been extended, for such their pro­ceedings [Page 155] with kings and princes, as in the Oath of Allegeance, are sought to bee pre­uented.

Not long since Cardinall Bellarmine did write a letter vnto me, in dislike of my yeel­ding to take the said Oath, and perswading of others therein to followe mine example: where unto after my answere was made, such plots were layed by them, who haue their watches ouer me, as the Cardinals letter it selfe, and the copie of my answere vnto it were knowen and had from me; and I was there­upon brought into a long and very strict Exa­mination: wherein I being drawen from point to point, and pressed vpon my duetie both to God, and to his Maiesty, to discharge my conscience, according to my knowledge: I haue dealt as becommeth a true Priest, a duetiful subiect to his Maiestie, a faithfull ser­uant of God, and an obedient childe to the Popes Holines and of the Catholike Church; and doe very humbly pray you (my louing brethren of all sorts) and withall straightly charge you by the mercies of God, and in the bowels of Iesus Christ, as being your Arch-priest, and thereby hauing yet authority (for [Page 156] ought I knowe) ouer you, thus to write vnto you; that if euer my said Examination doe come to your sight (as I am verily perswaded it will) you doe not dislike or impugne it, but wholly conforme your selues, and your con­uersations, by your due obedience to his Ma­iestie, agreeably vnto it.

The yonger sort of Catholickes (I know) such as are subiect to passion and strength of sundry humours, and in whom there is more feruencie, courage, and forwardnesse, then true discretion, iudgement, and experience, will when they see it, mutter, and peraduen­ture exclaime against me. But I am better perswaded of you, who are more iudicious, and of the graue and wiser sort; that no sug­gestions against me, or wrested constructions of any thing by me deliuered either herein, or in my said Examination, may breede in you any offence: being men better grounded, and setled in the truth, touching your obedience to his Maiestie, then that hereafter you will euer giue eare to any of these, or such like o­ther intiseable perswasions of mens alluring reasons; as that you are no longer to obey his Maiestie, as dutifull Subiects are commanded [Page 157] by the Apostles, but vntill you shall bee able without danger either of losse of goods, or of your liues, by reason of your numbers, or of some direction from the Pope; to beare armes against him, or to machinate, or put in pra­ctise any attempt, whatsoeuer, either to the hurt or dishonour of his Maiesties person, or the empeachment of his kingdome and Roy­all authoritie. These conceires likewise I doe assure you from my soule, are in themselues very detestable, repugnant to the Scriptures, and ought by all true, and sound Catholickes to be for euer abandoned.

Bee not dismayed therefore I befeech you, with any letters or Briefes, which doe after a sort insinuate, that the taking of the Oath of Allegeance is either repugnāt to any point of Faith, as yet concluded vpon by the Church, or vnto the Popes Supremacie, being boun­ded as it ought, within the limits and reach of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen. Those keyes doe no way extend themselues iure diuino, vnto kingdomes terrene, to open or shut, or to tosse or turmoile any of them: they haue no wardes in them, either so to turne or ouerturne them, nor to open vnto [Page 158] you any lawfull entrances into such disobedi­ent and vndutifull courses.

That the Pope is the head of the Catho­licke Church, therein I am resolute; as also that Emperours, Kings, and all other Prin­ces, that professe Christianitie, are subiect in some cases vnto his spirituall censures proper­ly so termed, as interdiction, and Excommu­nication: but to eradicate them, or to depose them, by any authoritie he can challenge iure diuino in temporalibus, either directly or indi­rectly, in ordine ad spiritualia, that is vtterly a­gainst my iudgement: and yet (I hope) I con­tinue still, as good a Catholicke, as any that holdeth the contrarie, notwithstanding that Cardinall Bellarmine seemeth to affirme in his Letter to me, that no man can concurre with me in opinion herein, and so yeeld to take the Oath of Allegeance (which only ex­cludeth the Popes authoritie in temporalibus, as well that which is ascribed vnto him direct­ly, as indirectly) but that hee must needes perfidiously denie the primacie of the See Apo­stolicke.

At which his words, were they not groun­ded (I thinke) vpon some misinformation, [Page 159] I should greatly meruaile, considering that thereby hee doeth insinuate, the Popes su­premacie (which ought to bee maintained without any hesitation) to depend a great part of it vpon a wonderfull vncertaintie: For no man knoweth better then himselfe, that it hath not beene hitherto determined by the Church, or iudicially by his Ho­linesse, tanquam ex Cathedrâ, whether the Pope hath any authoritie at all in tempora­libus, further then in those things, that doe appertaine to S. Peters patrimonie, and other temporalties giuen to the See of Rome. And besides, if it shall fall out hereafter, that the Pope shall be found to haue any such au­thoritie, it must haue beene giuen him by Christ either indirectly, as hee the said Cardi­nall with many others his partakers doe re­solutely affirme, or directly, as the opposite part against him doe take vpon them, with as great confidence, to mainteine, (each of them peremptorily denying the others asser­tion:) and because likewise vntill the point be ouerruled against one of the said parts (which will not be done in haste for many respects) it cannot possibly be determined, whether the [Page 160] Pope hath any such authoritie, as either of them holde, or not: it had beene fit in my iudgement for Cardinall Bellarmine, not to haue entangled the Popes supremacie, which is cleare and manifest, with these vncertaine­ties and perplexities, for to haue blamed me either for auoiding them my selfe, or admo­nishing of others to take heed, lest they might be entrapped or snared with them.

But his Amplitude writ vnto me, and censu­red mee as it pleased him: which I could the more easily haue borne, as my duetie requi­red, had he not therby published to as many as shall see his Letter (the Copie whereof is, as I am informed, spread farre and neere) that by taking of the said oath of Allegeance one of the chiefe heads of our faith, and foundations of Catholicke religion in discrimen adducitur, is brought into question and endangered: there beeing indeede no such head or founda­tion hitherto agreed vpon or concluded. So as there is no cause (for ought I know, or can iudge) why I should not still perseuere in the approbation of the lawfulnesse of the said othe, and continue my former admonitions [Page 161] vnto you, for the submitting of your selues vnto it, when it shalbe exacted of you, lest o­therwise you wilfully cast your selues into those miseries, which are likely to fall vpon you, not as so many arguments of happines, and that blessednesse which is promised to those that suffer for the truths sake, but of those iudgements, which are inflicted vpon men, by Kings and superiour gouernours, for their euill behauiour and disobedience.

Deceiue not therefore your selues (bre­thren) such sufferings are not the way to Martyrdome, nor approued of God: neuer might treacherie or rebellion, or the bearing of armes by subiects against their Soue­raignes, or their secret designements against them, or the execution of the same to the en­dangering or hurt of their royall persons, be graced, or honored with that most glorious title, by whomsoeuer they were either autho­rized, vndertaken or practised. Take heede (I do most humbly beseech you) of this kind of leauen: be your lumpe of dough otherwise neuer so pure, sweet, and sincere, this mixture will make it sowre, and corrupt it. Stand fast in the Catholicke faith, and in the true pro­fession [Page 162] thereof, as hitherto you haue done.

Bee not led away with various and strange doctrines of deposing of Kings, of absoluing their subiects from their Allegeance, of autho­rizing them to rebell, to beare armes against them, to plot and lay snares secretly how to entrap them, or to offer hurt or violence to their persons. These things (I thanke God) my heart doeth abhorre, and my spirit with­in me doeth loath and detest them: The voice that bade Peter, Kill and eate, neuer meant that hee should deale so with Princes, cast them out of their seates, and bestow their kingdomes vpon others, or procure them to be killed, that Christians and Catholicke re­ligion might flourish and bee comforted. Meats and drinks may establish our strength; but such proceedings with kings ought to be no foode for our soules. Iames and Iohn, be­cause they would haue had the Samaritanes to haue beene destroyed with fire from hea­uen, for that they would not receiue their master Christ, were sharpely rebuked and told by him, that they knew not of what spi­rit they were. S. Peter drewe his sword, and smote off Malchus eare, in as iust a cause to [Page 163] the eyes of humane wisedome, as was possi­ble; but Christ disliked that his fact, and gaue it for a generall rule or caueat (in my iudge­ment) to all Catholicke priests and people, saying: that all that strike with the sword, shall perish with the sword. These and such like things (my deare brethren) are written out of question to our correption and Catho­licke information.

Beware therefore of them in whose mouthes and actions sanguis nihil est, bloud is nothing: Ecclus. 8. 19. tread not in the steps of ruine, stumble not a­gainst rockes, commit not your selues to such laborious wayes. If your owne children (who are fathers) or your owne fathers (who are children) should perswade you to any of these courses, doe not follow their counsell, for it is not of God: let Buchananus and his fellowes, and whosoeuer else doe follow them, runne alone in these rebellious and wicked races. But inquire you, according to the Prophets direction, and your owne Catholicke profes­sion, of the olde pathes, quae sit via bone, which is the good way, and walke in it. Cer­teinly, be you well assured, these wayes wher­of I will put you in minde, were the olde [Page 164] wayes, I beseech you embrace them; that it may not be said of you, that is said of others in another case: Laudatis semper antiquitatem, Tertul. Apo­loget. cap. 6. & nouè de die viuitis: you alwayes com­mend antiquitie (and therein you doe well) but many of you are too much subiect to no­uelties: which I greatly mislike. Doeth your coine carie the image of K. Iames? then ren­der to K. Iames the things that are K. Iames his, and vnto God the things that are Gods. Let euery soule be subiect to higher powers, for there is no power, but of God. Therefore hee that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordi­nance of God. And they that resist, purchase to themselues damnation. Therefore be sub­iect of necessitie, not onely for wrath, but also for conscience sake. Render to all men their due; tribute, to whom tribute, to whom cu­stome, custome, to whom feare, feare, to whom honour, honour.

I desire first of all things (saith the Apostle) that obsecrations, prayers, postulations, and thankesgiuing be made for all men; for kings, that we may leade a quiet and peaceable life in all pie­tie and chastitie: for this is good and acceptable before our Sauiour God. Bee subiect to euery [Page 165] humane creature for God, whether it be to king, as excelling: or to rulers as sent by him, to the reuenge of male factours, but to the praise of the good: for so is the will of God, that doing well, you may make the ignorance of vnwise men, to be dumbe, as free and not as hauing the freedome, for a cloake of malice, but as the seruants of God. Honour all men. Loue fraternitie. Feare God. Honour the King.

In these Catholike and Apostolicall waies (my louing brethren) the best and most an­cient of all our forefathers did carefully walke and delight: professing that they were the same to the Emperours, that they were to their Tertul. Apo­loget. cap. 36. neighbours: and that they were forbidden equal­ly to wish euill, to doe euill, to speake euill, or to thinke euill of any man: that whatsoeuer was not lawfull for them to doe against the Emperour, the same they might not doe against a­ny: that what they might doe against no man, they might peraduenture the lesse doe against the Emperour, qui per Deum tantus est, who is by Gods ordinance so great a person. That a Chri­stian Tertul. ad Sca­pulam cap. 2. was no mans enemie, much lesse the Empe­rours, whom of necessitie he must loue, reuerence, and honour, and wish long health vnto, as know­ing [Page 166] him to be appointed of God: That they so wor­shipped the Emperour, as they lawfully might and was expedient for him, as a man the second from God, and lesse then God onely: That they did in­uocate the eternall God for the health of their Tertul: Apolog: cap. 30. Emperors, as knowing who gaue them their Em­pire: and that they (the said Emperours) are onely vnder the power of God, à quo sunt se­cundi, post quem, primi, from whome (in tem­porall affaires) they are the second, and after whome, the first: That they did admire in their Emperours the iudgement of God, who placed Ibidem cap. 22. them ouer nations: that they knew that to bee in them, which God would, and that therefore they desired that to be preserued which was according to his ordinance: That they prayed for their Em­perours, for their Ministers and powers, for the estate of the world, and for the quiet of all things.

Now (deare Catholickes) forasmuch as that which the Emperours were to the anci­ent Christians, the same is King IAMES vnto vs; vnder whome our states being farre more tolerable, then theirs were vnder many of them; let vs not bee otherwise affected to­wards his Maiestie, then they were to their said Emperours. The will of God is one and [Page 167] the same for euer: that which was nor lawfull then, is still vnlawfull: what was the duetie of Christians at that time, doth now continue in as full strength to binde vs, as it did them. It is therefore our bounden dueties to yeeld that to our dread Souereigne Lord King Iames within his kingdoms, which they did to their Emperours within the compasse of their Em­pire, and dayly to pray for his Maiestie, as they prayed for their Emperours, that Almigh­ty Tertul. Apol. cap 30. God would grant vnto him viram prolixam, a long life, (which we must not therefore seeke to shorten) imperium secuium, a secure reigne, (which we may not therefore in any sort di­sturbe) domum tutam, safety in his Court, (which wee may nor therefore by any pra­ctises empeach) exercitus fortes, valiant soul­diers, (whose allegeance therfore we may not endeuour to auert) senatum fidelem, a faith­full Councel, (which we may not therefore la­bour to corrupt) populum probum, dutifull subiects, (whome we may not therefore per­swade to beare armes against him) orbem quietum, a quiet kingdome, (which we may not therefore seeke to molest, or extort from him) and all those blessings, and comforts, that his heart [Page 168] can desire, which we may not therefore seeke to hinder or impaire. If these then bee the auncient paths of our forefathers, let vs pur­sue them: if this be the good way, cease not to walke in it. Thinke diligently vpon him, Heb. 12. 3. which sustained of sinners such contradiction against himselfe, that you bee not wearied fain­ting in your mindes. All discipline for the pre­sent certes seemeth not to bee of ioy, but of sor­row: Ibidem. 11. but afterwards it wil render to you (deare Catholickes) that are exercised by it, most peaceable fruit of iustice, and the God of all comfort will in his due time fill your soules with all true consolation, either in this world, or at the least in the world to come.

And agreeably to this sound counsell and wholesome doctrine is that of S. Augustine, where answering such a like question, as per­aduenture some more impatient amongst you then the rest, might here make, (in that I may not with a safe conscience put you in hope of any reliefe from your distresses, by a­ny attempts to be made against his Maiestie, or the State; but that whatsoeuer doth happen vnto you, you must continue in feare, true o­bedience and fidelitie vnto his highnesse, and [Page 169] to your naturall countrey; arming your selues only with patience and prayer:) Nunquid sic August. enar­rat. in Psal. 24. erit semper? shall we alwayes be in this case? he the said holy Father saith; Non sic erit; it shall not be so for euer, veniet tempus, quando vnus agnoscatur Deus, the time shall come, when one God shall bee acknowledged. But it may be asked, when? and that hee answe­reth likewise: Quando vnus Christus in clari­tate suâ apparens &c. when our onely Sauiour Christ, appearing in his brightnesse, shall congre­gate before him all nations, and diuide them, as a Pastor diuideth his goats from his sheepe, and place his sheepe vpon his right hand, and his goats vpon his left: And in the meane while strengthen your hearts with this assured hope, that continuing in the faith of our Lord Iesus Christ, and in the holy obedience of his Church, the King then shall say to you that shall be at his right hand, Come you bles­sed of my Father, possesse you the kingdome pre­pared for you from the foundation of the world.

And in the meane while let vs posiesse our soules in patience, seeking through grace, by our seruice to please God with feare and reuerence: goe we altogether to our Sauiour [Page 170] without the campe carying his reproch, and our Lord Iesus Christ himselfe, and God and our Father which hath loued vs, and hath gi­uen eternall consolation, and good hope in grace, exhort your hearts, and confirme you in euery good worke and word.