1 He sayethe that certeine of the thinges whiche we stande vpon are suche as if euery heart of our heade were a lyfe, we ought to aforde them for the defence of them: whereby he woulde insi [...]uate that this Churche of Englande dothe mainteine some damnable doctrine Pag. 44.

1 The first daungerous poincte is gathered by insinuation: but direct and plaine dealinge doubtethe of no suche daun­ger. Suerly if there be any trueth on T C. syde be it in neuer so smal a matter, yet beinge the trueth of God, and in Gods matters it ought not to seme a tryfle in mans eyes. There is great diuersitie of matters vttered in the woorde of God, in degrees of weyghtines, but the holy Ghost instru­cteth vs of no tryfles No man that considereth the maiestie of God, doubteth what he ought to suffer, rather then to breake the [...]st of the commandements: our Sauiour sayeth, that no iote nor title of Gods lawe, shall passe, vntill all be fullfilled, and whosoeuer breaketh one of the lest of the commaundementes, and teacheth men so to doe, shalbe cal­led left in the Kingdome of heauen.

Then lett euery indifferent man iudge, whether we ought to aforde ten thousand lyues, rather then to be excluded out of the Kingdome of heauen. But God will not deale so hardly with vs for so small matters, true nor yet for breach of the greatest commaundementes. But the assertion is of the iustice of God & the duety of man, not of man [...] frayelty and God [...] mercye. As for the damnable doctryne supposed, althoughe it be no parte of the assertion but an vncharita­ble collection, yet the Churche of England is no [...] to be charged therwith For in as muche as bothe the parties that holde thes controuersies are members of the Churche and a great manye others [...]lso which take no parte in these disputations: the doctrine of the Churche is that which is trueth in those questions, whether the same be helde by T. C. and those that be of his iudgment, or by Io. Whitgifte, and all that be of his mynde. For yf T. C and as many a [...] take his parte be deceiued, the Churche of England maye not be sayd to be deceiued No more yf Io Whytgift, & his syde be in a wronge opinion, maye the Churche of England beare the blame of their error. To conclude, a damnable do­ [...]ryne maye by sayd in two sences, first generally any [...] [Page 6] [...] is damnable, because it deserueth [...] synne is of yt self damnable, then specially suche fals doctryne as is blasphemous, and holdeth contra­rye to the foundation of our saluation and so all reasonable men mean, when they speake of damnable doctrine, but so doth not T C. chardge his aduersary much lesse the Church of England.

2 He sayeth, that if the Churche be considered in the whole and generall gouernement and outward pollicie of yt, yt maye be pure and vnspotted: whiche smelleth of an Anabaptisticall fancye pag 50.

2 The seconde daungerous poyncte is affyrmed by M D to smell of Anabaptistry▪ Suerly they that haue ther senes exercised to discerne good from euill as well as he and haue better cause to knowe the stynke of Anabaptistry then he, because they haue been nearer to the dounghill of them, then euer he was, can perceiue no such sauor in the assertion. For first he affirmeth yt not absolutely, but for any thinge he knowethe, whiche wordes shoulde haue been added in this accusation, yf yt had been framed with indifferencye. Secondly he addeth yf men would labour to purge yt of the abuses, whiche ought to be according to the worde of God, nowe what letteth the puritie?

But ether the worde of God teacheth not howe to purge the Churche perfectlie, or ells that men can not followe the rules prescribed by the woorde of God throughlie.

Yf you grante imperfection in the worde, all men knowe whereof that smellethe, yf ther wante ability in men, then the rules were not rightly framed for man: yt will be aun­swered, that the lyke is obiected of the lawe by the Pela­gians and Papists: yf no man can kepe the lawe then the lawe was geuen in vayne: but this obiection is soone auoy­ded For the lawe and these rules are not ryghtly compa­red, because they differ in the ende for whiche they were, giuen. The lawe was not geuen that men shoulde fullfill yt but to shewe them ther synne.

These rules were giuen because God woulde haue his Churche in the outward pollicye to be well gouerned. But M D will haue an example of this purytie: what thinketh he of the Churches planted by the Apostells so longe as they contynewed in such order, as the Apostells established in them, were they not pure and vnspotted as touchinge the generall gouernement and outward pollycie of them? were the Apostells also ignoraunt or vnable, or vnwillinge, to bringe this thinge to passe? as for the spottes in the Churche [Page 7] of the Corinthians and Galathians [...] were not lefte by th'Apostell, when he [...] but cast in by fals Apostells that came after [...] they were th [...] f [...]ultes of the men not the imperfection of the orders, whiche if they hadde been ryghtly obserued he neded not to haue written to the one for excommunication of the adulterer, nor to the other for confutinge of ther he­resye: wherefore by thes examples maye be inferred that althoughe the order of gouernement and outward pollycie be neuer so pure and perfecte, yet yf men be negligent to obserue yt, greate enormities maye growe in the Churche, But that there can be no perfecte order for the right gouer­nement of Christe his Churche requireth some other facultye then Logike, to frame a good argument of thes examples Finally men muse why this opinion shoulde be compted so daungerous in T. C whiche is so stoutly defended by the ac­cuser him self in bothe his bookes. For yf ther can be no Churche pure and vnspotted in the whole gouernement and outwarde pollycie, why dothe he so boldly defende the Churche of England, as he pretendethe in her gouernement and outwarde pollicie, that he will acknowledge no spo [...]te nor blemishe thereof, but ether he defendethe yt as bewty­full, or ells remouethe yt as beinge in the men and not in the order of gouernement?

3 He affyrmeth, that many thinges are bothe commaunded and forbidden, of whiche there is no expresse mention in the worde, whiche are as necessarie to be followed or auoyded, as th [...]s whereof expresse mention is made whiche soundethe to the confirmation of the very foundation of all papistrie. pag 77.

3 The third daungerous poyncte of doctryne in M. Whyt­gifte eares soundethe to the confyrmation of Poperye▪ but this his Censure in other mens iudgement soundethe more malicyously then godly or learnedlye: for yt is well knowen howe farre T C is fledde from all Papistrie. And his meaninge in those wordes is euident to any man that is disposed to vnderstande him. That many thinges are com­maunded and forbidden in the worde of God by generall preceptes, whiche are not expressed particularly in there speciall names and kindes. Why shoulde this be noted in the margent for a Papisticall assertion? but afterwarde it is term [...]d most ciuily an vnaduised assertion because M Whyt­gyfte counteth (expressed) as yt pleaseth him, which he maye well doe wh [...]n he interpreteth his owne wordes, but who made him a dictator to determine the sence of other mens wordes. Euery man is best interpreter of his owne wordes▪ [Page 8] [...] fallw, hen a man is accused for speakinge [...] he shall not be admitted to expounde his [...], yet by lawe his aduersary shall not be his ex­pounder, but vir bonus a good and indifferēt man. Yf lawyers be sumwhat captious they are to be born withall when do­ctors of diuinitie permitt vnto them selues suche lybertie of wranglinge▪

4 He holdethe, that the doctrine of free will is not repugnaun [...] to saluation: and yet is yt a doctryne cleane contrary to f [...]e [...] by Christe. pag 82.

4 In the thre former Censures thoughe vncharitably yet in this behalf he hathe dealt more vprightlye, in that he hath sett downe neere the very woordes of T. C but in the fourth Censure he hath sett downe nether his woordes nor his mea­ninge for his woordes be these And yf you meane by matters of faythe and necessary to saluation those without the whiche a [...] can not be saued then the doctryne that teacheth there is no free will or prayer for the deade is not within your compasse. For I doubt not but diuers of the fathers of the greeke Churche, whiche were great patrons of free will are saued holdi [...]ge the foundation of the faythe whiche is Christe. T C dothe not holde that the doctryne of free will is not repugnant to sal­uation, but only obiecteth against that, whiche he supposeth to be M. D meaninge by matters of faythe and necessary to saluation, for he him self so meanethe by matters of faythe and necessary to saluation as he countethe the doctryne that teacheth there is no free will or prayer for the deade to be within the compasse but yet he is perswaded (you will saye) that many patrons of fre will are saued. M D is of the same mynde neuerthelesse he saythe, that he that dyeth in the opinion of free will holdeth not the foundation, by whiche woordes yt semethe he hath had no great conferens with the free will men of our tyme, and that he imagineth that those fathers of the greeke Church dyed not in the opi­nion of free will. But who is able to affyrme that? I doubt not but they repented before they dyed and desyred pardon of all there errours and ignoraunces, as of all there secret and vnknowen synnes: but yet it is most like they dyed in this opinion that they thought free will to be no errour. A Christian man must desire forgiuens of those synnes which he hathe committed not knowinge they were synnes and lykewyse of those errors whiche he holdethe not knowing them to be errors, wherefore they dyed not without repen­taunce althoughe they dyd not reuoke that particuler er­rour.

[Page 9]5 He sayeth, that all the commaundements of [...] Apostells, are needfull for our saluation: whiche is a [...] error pag 103.

5 The fyfte poincte is defyned to be a notorious error and in pag 103. it is quoted for a grosse error, and in the text T C is sayd grosslye to haue erred in affyrminge that all the commaundements of God and the Apostells are needfull for our saluation, with good store of the like Rethorike, but what need all this insultations▪ I woulde require of M. D not a charitable as of a Christian, but a reasonable inter­pretation as of a man, to thes wordes of T. C. All the com­mau [...]dements of God and the Apostels are needfull for our sal­uation For what man (except he were blynded with malyce) woulde not vnderstande this sayinge of suche commaunde­ments as God and the Apostells in Gods name haue giuen to vs, and then what absurditie is in the sayinge? For suche commaundements as were giuen to others are they no com­maundements to vs?

6 He vtterly denyeth, that any Magistrate can saue the lyfe of blasphemers, contemptuous and [...]uberne idolaters, murtherers, adulterers, incestuous persons, and suche like whiche God by his iudiciall lawe hathe commaunded to be put to deathe: whereby he byndeth the ciuill Magistrate to the obseruinge of the iudiciall lawe of Moses, and condemneth this state and gouernment (now vsed in this realme of England) of manifest impietie. pag. 120.

6 The syxte poyncte is accused of two heynous cryme [...] the one of bringinge in of Iudaisme, the other of condem­ning this state of manyfest impietie. but in my iudgement without iuste cause. For T. C. requireth not the obseruation of that lawe, but the substaunce and equitie thereof as the marrowe, whiche is nothinge else but true iustice. Is Gods iustice eternall, nowe become Iudaisme? be not blasphemers, incestuous persons, murderers, traytors, &c. as worthye of deathe nowe as they were in tymes past? Suerly my thinke yf M. Whytgiftes diuinitie be not able to rule his iudgment in these cases, yet humanitie yt self and the light of na­ture shyninge vnto all nations sholde instruct him, that the horrible crymes are woorthye of deathe by the iustice of God. And if it be the iustice of God, how is it lawfull for mā to alter yt? But let vs consyder M. D. reasons. First all the [...] lawes of this lande that be contrarie no the iudicialls of Moses, as he sayeth (but he sholde saye to the iustice of God for he muste not mocke men with the ambiguous and odious terme of the iudiciall lawe of Moses) must be abrogated. Suerly they that are studious of the lawes, confesse as you [Page 10] [...] muste be consonant to the iustice of God▪ [...] poyncte they be not, that they ought to be re­ [...]ormed. And euery Parliament, payns is taken to brynge them as neare therto as can be obteyned. Muche rather a di­uine shoulde require that all lawes be squared accordinge to the iustice of God. The seconde reason: the Prince muste be abridged of the prerogatiue of perdoninge. The question in myn opinion, is not whether a Prince maye forbeare the execution of a sentence vpon good respectes, but whether he maye make a lawe contrarye to Gods eternall iustice. The thirde reason: punishments of deathe for fellonye muste be mitigated, &c. Suerlye suche maye be the circunstaunces that in some cases in conscience they ought to be mitigated, and in some cases they maye be increased. when Dauid pronoun­ced sentence of deathe, accordinge to the case that was put vnto hym by Nathan the prophete 2. Sam. 12. he increased the punishment of fellonye, yet he decreed not contrarye to the iustice of God. The reste that followeth of lawyers ca­stynge awaye ther bookes, and priests becomminge iudges, I take to be but Iestinge, vnsemely for so serious matters: as for the auctorities he alleageth out of Musculus, Hemingius, Caluine, &c. reade them who will with any indifferencye, and he shall fynde nothinge in them contrarye to the asser­tion of T.C but rather agreable to the same: wherefore in my symple iudgment, this doctryne tendeth not to the ouer­throwe of states of Commonwealthe, &c. But rather this assertion of M D printed in great letters ("That the iudiciall lawe is leste to the discrescion of the magistrate to adde to yt or to take from yt, or to alter and chaunge yt as yt shalbe thought moste fytt, &c.") tendethe to the settinge vp of all tyrannie and confusion, and to the ouerthrowe of all well ordered common wealthes. For yf ther be no certayne rule of iustice in that lawe, whiche is immutable (as there be in­finite circunstaunces mutable) it is in the discrescion of the magistrate be he wyse or vnwyse, godly or wicked as yt shalbe thought fytt by hym (for who muste be iudge of the fyttnes but he to whose discrescion yt is lefte?) to decree all thinges at his pleasure, then maye he punysh a trespas of three halfpence damage by treble tormentes of deathe, and assesse a parricide at three halfpence fyne: he may pu­nyshe an incestuous person with a fyllip and persecute a fyllyp giuen with fyer and faggott. He maye chastice an horrible blasphemer with a checke and for a woorde of small reproche put a man to deathe. I knowe M. D. abhor­reth thes absurdities, but when he is so harde an interpreter of other mens wordes you maye see what maye be collected of his owne.

[Page 11]7 He affyrmeth, that in the Churches of Christ [...] dr [...]n [...]kards, nor whoremongers, at the least, whiche [...] whiche assertion sendeth to Anabaptisme. pag. 176.

7 The seuenth assertion is sayde to tende to Anabaptisme, whiche affyrmeth that in the Churches of Christ, ther be no dronkards, nor whormongers at the least which are knowen. Truely yf T. C had added no reasons of this assertion, yet me thynketh an indifferent reader wolde haue vnderstande his meaninge to be of suche Churches where discipline is exercised. But when he ioyneth the reasons, namelye, that suche offenders are there restored by repētaunce, or cast out by excommunication, and so are to be accompted ether as no offenders, or as no members of the Churche: I can not see what occasion is lefte to a Sophister to cauill▪ and therefore I meruayle that M. D. Whytgifte hathe no more regard of charitic then vpon euery vayne surmise to accuse his bro­ther of Anabaptistrye.

8 He sayeth, that whatsoeuer aparell the Magistrate com­maundeth the Mynister to weare, the commaundement can not be without some iniurye doen to the Mynister: whiche is to de­barre the Magistrates from appointinge any kinde of aparell to Ministers. pag. 265.

8 The eighte poyncte is chardged thoughe not in woordes, yet in dede with suspition of Anabaptistrie: for yf it abridge, the lawfull aucthoritie of the Magistrate, it fauoreth the Secte. But in myne opinion yt derogateth nothinge from the lawfull auctoritie of the Magistrates. For (as I concea­ue) he meaneth not, that it is vnlawfull for Magistrates to appoyncte distinction of apparell, to all degrees of men for ciuill respectes: but that the Magistrate oughte not to thinke so euill of the elders of Gods Churche) whiche are woor­thye of that office and so of doble honor) as that they can not order them selues in sober and decent apparrell, exce­pte they be instructed and enforced therto by lawe. As for example euen of those Iustices of bothe the benches whom M D. obiecteth, beinge approued for ther wysdome and grauitie, before they be admitted to that office, yf they were forbidden to weare whyte fethers in ther cappes, or to sytt in shorte Ierkens or to vse barrell bretches, and com­maunded to vse sadd collors and sober fashions in all there apparell, thinke you they woulde not be sorye, that they shoulde be so yll thought of that theye colde not consyder these thinges without commaundement. And I am perswaded [...] D. Whytgifte hym self, if he were in [...]nest, by any that [Page 12] hath auctoritie specially forbidden to were doble ruff [...]s, or yellowe hose, drawne out with blewe and commaunded to weare his garmentes of such collour and makinge as becommeth a man of his callinge: he woulde, thinke a pece of-wronge were offered hym▪ in that he were no better thought of, but that he needed suche kinde of commaundement to kepe hym in order But you will saye, that all mynisters be not of suche wysdome and discrescion that they can order them selues without commaundement. I aunswer that T. C. speaketh not of suche as are, but suche as ought to be, and of the reuerent opinion that the magistrate, as well as others, ought to haue bothe of the office of the mynistery, and of the mynisters them selues.

9 He sayeth, that those mynisteries without the▪ whiche the Churche is fully buylded, and brought to perfection and compleate vnitie, are not to be reteined in the Churche: whiche is a verye daungerous assertion, and maye giue occasion to diuers errors pag. 307.

9 The nynthe is compted a daungerous assertion, giuinge. occasion of diuers heresies, and in the pag 307. it is sayd to tende to the shuttinge out of the Ciuill magistrate, and to be the verye argument of the Anabaptistes againste Chri­stian magistrates. But yf it were sufficient to accuse, who shoulde be innocent? especially if M. Whytgiftes Censure were a sentence, T.C. were in a wofull case But, if you will credite me, when I examine the wordes of T C. as stronglye as I can against hym, this ac [...]sation seemeth to me to haue lesse collor then anye of the former. For what can be col­lected of th [...]se wordes. (Those mynisteryes without the whiche the Churche is fully buyld [...]d, and broughte to perfection and compleate v [...]itie are not to be reteined in the Churche.) but that all superfluous and needles mynisteries are to be remoued? Howe doth this assertion exclude the Ciuill ma­gistrate? except you will make hym an Archbyshop or Arch­deacon, or sume such Ecclesiasticall mynister, It will be sayde that the Ciuill magistrate hathe auctoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall. It is true, but that maketh not hym an Ec­clesiasticall mynister, or his office a mynisterie Ecclesiasti­call. yf T.C had sayd these offices without the whiche, &c. ther might perhaps haue been lefte some collor of quarrel­linge, yet he might reasonablye haue been vnderstand to meane of suche offices as in his whole discourse he spea­keth of, that is Ecclesiasticall, but when he sayeth myniste­ries, by whiche worde men do comonlye without any fur­der addition, vnderstand mynisteries of the Churche, I can [Page 13] not see what accusation M D can haue agaynst hym. As for the differens he putteth of bringinge the Churche to per­fection and preseruing yt therein, is needles in this place, for T, C speaketh not onelye of layinge the foundation of the Churche, but of bringynge it to perfection and com­pleate vnitie in Christe the heade, whiche of force impor­teth continuance to the ende.

10 He holdeth that it were more safe for vs, to conforme oure indifferent ceremonies to the Turkes whiche are farre of, then to the Papiste whiche are so neare: whiche can not be so, for the Turkes vtterly denye Christe, and be voyde of all Christian ce­remonies. pag 475.

10 The tenthe assertion is not chardged with any daunge­rous doctryne but only sayde that yt can not be so, and the­refore it shoulde haue been placed amonge the vntruthes rather then the daungerous poynctes of doctryne: but per­hapes he wolde insinuate that T. C. fauoreth the religion of the Turkes, rather then of the Papistes. Truely I thinke he fauoreth them bothe alyke and yet in some poynctes ther is lesse hurte in the one then in the other. I had rather abhorre all images with the Turkes, then committ idola­trie with the Papistes, and yet I lyke nether of bothe. Suche comparatiue sayinges do not imploy a simple allowinge of ether of the thinges compared, as when they comonlye saye: I had rather be combred with an ague then with a curste wyfe, they meane to cherishe nother the one nor the other, yf they maye chuse. So I am perswaded that T. C. wysheth nether Turkysh ceremonies nor Popishe, and yet ther were lesse hurte in Turkishe ceremonies, then in Po­pishe. to be vsed of vs, because of greater offence growinge in the vse of one, whiche is neare and knowen, then in vse of the other that is farre of and vnknowen. M D noteth in the margent that Gentills and Papistes are not lyke in all res­pectes: nether two kyndes of mylke, nor two eggs are lyke in all respectes. yt sufficeth in simillitudes if they be lyke in those things in whiche they are compared. But from Gen­tils and Turkes we differ wholy in matter and substaunce of relligion, from the Papistes we differ not wholy in mat­ter and substaunce. Truely if Antichrist differ wholy from Christ in matter and substaunce Antichristian religion dif­fereth wholy from Christian religion in matter and sub­staunce. And I truste M. Whytgifte will not saye otherwyse but that the Pope is Antichriste, and Popishe religion is Antichristian, But yet you maye saye we confesse the twelue [...] of faythe, and all the holye Scripture to be [Page 14] true whiche the Papistes holde also, therefore we differe [...] wholy from them. So dothe the dyuels aswell as the Papistes in an historicall beleefe, and yet they are bothe voyde of true faythe. Therefore as we differ wholy in mat­ter and substaunce of oure Religion from the dyuells, so doe we from the Papistes. And in my symple iudgemente, there is more daunger in this assertion of M. D. we differ not w­holy in matter and substaunce of Religion from the Pa­pistes (then this of T C.) yt were more safe to conforme oure ceremonies to the Turkes then to the Papistes. Finally, T C. sayeth, that as farre as maye be, the Religion of God should differ from the Papistes in forme and fashion, not that we maye not haue any thinge comon with them: ot lyke to them whiche M D. vrgeth so earnestly and yet proueth so slenderlye.

11 He affyrmeth, that not only the dignitie, but also the beinge of the sacramente of Baptisme dependeth vpon this, whether he be à Mynister or no, that dothe mynister yt: whiche yf it be true, then be there nombers not baptised, that are supposed to be bap­tised, and it muste of necessitie followe, that they ought to be re­baptized whiche is playne Anabaptisme. pag 518.

11 Concerninge the eleuenth assertion whiche is heynously accused of Anabaptistrie as I do not playnlye vnderstand howe it is ment by T C so do I not see howe it is substaun­cially confuted by M. Whytgifte for whereas he alleadgeth some auctorities to proue that baptisme mynistred by Po­pishe priestes is good and sufficient, the same is also graun­ted by T. C. who compteth them for mynisters, thoughe they be not good and lawfull mynisters, but vsurpers and intruders: the lyke maye be sayde of suche as without ordi­narie callinge counterfayte them selues to be mynisters, and so deceaue the Churche. In these the secret consent of the Churche receyuinge them for mynisters vntill there wicked vsurpation be espied maye be sufficient to auctoryse, there mynisterie, towards others, althoughe they haue no grounde of there callinge in them selues. Nowe, it is another que­stion, whether a woman, or a laye man whiche professeth hym self to be no mynister, yf he presume to baptize doe mynister the Sacrament, or in deede abuse the Sacrament. In this I will determine nothinge my self, but onely I will let you see by certeyne reasons that the matter is not so cleare as M. D. woulde seme to make it First it is manifest that T. C woulde haue no rebaptization: because he c [...]pteth the baptisme of women to be vtterlie no baptisme: and therfore the first beinge none at all the next is no rebaptisme. [Page 15] Secondly I am throughly resolued that nether any laye man or any woman oughte to take vpon them to baptize. For there is no suche necessitie of the outward element that the institut [...]on of Christe shoulde be broken for yt. But yf a wo­man haue presumed to breake the ordinaunce of God, whe­ther she haue mynistred the holye Sacrament is all the doubte. I woulde aske of M. Whytgifte (if I were acquain­ted with hym) yf a woman presume to mynister the Commu­nion whether she giue the bodye and bloude of Christe or no, yf he saye no. I woulde knowe why she shoulde rather giue the one Sacrament then the other, for I suppose he re­iecteth the Popishe opinion of the necessytie of Baptisme, and yet I maye doubt, because of the auctorities whiche he alleadgeth out of Tertulliane, Ambrose, Ierome, Augusti­ne and Zwinglius where he was not best aduised. Moreouer, because he affirmeth that the onely essentiall forme of Baptisme is to baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Sonne, and of the holye Ghost. I woulde haue en­quired also whether yf the element be chaunged as well as the mynister yet the Baptisme is allowable: as there is great question amonge the Papistes, yf Baptisme be myni­stred with wyne, mylke, brothe, and other more vile liquor whether yt be sufficient: but that he seemeth to allowe the Baptisme of sande in the fabulus storye, so water were af­terwarde sprinkled on and then aryseth another dunsicall question: yf those wo [...]des with are the forme of Baptisme be pronounced a twelumoneth before water be powred on whether this be a good Baptisme or no? howbeyt in that example of hym that was baptised with sande, a man would thinke the byshope of Alexandria might aswell haue dis­pensed with the lacke of water, as he did with the lacke of a mynister, or rather he might haue added a mynister as he added water. For I see no reason why one maye not be bap­tised as well without water as without a mynister. Furder­more fot any thinge that I can perceaue the iudgement of D. W. semeth to be repugnaunt to the booke of common prayer, where it prescribeth the order of Baptisme for them that are baptised in priuate houses, In whiche the minister is willed to examine them that bringe any childe to the Churche whiche is baptised at home of these syx interro­gatories. 1. By whom the childe was baptised? 2. Who was present when the childe was baptised? 3. Whether they called vpon God for grace and succor in that necessitie? 4. With what thinge or what matte [...] they did baptise the childe? 5. Whith what wordes the childe [...]as baptised? 6. Whether they thinke the childe to be [...]wfully and perfectelye baptised? By whiche the iudgment [Page 16] of the booke very godlye and soundlye appeareth to re­quire syxe thinges vnto lawfull and perfecte baptisme. First, one that hathe auctoritie to baptise, for els the que­stion were in vayne, yf all men and women might lawfully baptise, secondlye wytnesses or a congregation, which bap­tism ought to be ministred, thirdly, inuocatiō of Gods name, whiche as it dothe consecrate all holye actions so yt ought not to be seuered from the admin [...]stration of the Sacramēt [...]: fourthly, the element of water accordinge to the institution of Christe, and not sande, milke, or suche lyke baggadge. Fyftlye, the wordes of Christes institution that baptisme be mynistred in the name of the holye Trinitie. Lastely fayth in them that haue mynistred the Sacrament, that they maye be assured they haue done all thinges required by the worde of God, for what so euer is not of fayth is synne. ‘And if the mynister shall proue by the aunswers of suche as brought the childe, that all thynges were doone as they ought to be, then shall he not baptise the childe againe, but receiue hym as one of the flocke of Christ, But yf they make an vncertayne aunswere to those questions and saye they can not tell what they thought, did, or sayde, in that feare, &c. He is appoincted to baptise hym in this forme, yf thou be not baptised alreadye then I baptise the in the name of the Father, the Sonne, and the holye Ghoste:’ you see by the iudgement of the booke, that the outward ce­remonye not vsed as it ought to be, or not certaynlye knowen, whether it hathe been rightly vsed, maye be re­peated againe, and yet no rebaptisation commytted, nor A­nabaptistrie allowed. As for example, yf aunswere were made to the fourthe question, that the childe was baptised with sande or with ashes, mylke, wyne, or with any thing but water, yf I were mynister I woulde no more doubte to baptise the childe by the worde of God, and the direction of the booke, then any that hathe had no ceremonie of Ba­ptisme vsed towards hym. And yf aunswere were made to M. D. in the fyfte question, that the childe was baptised into the name of God and our ladye, I suppose he woulde not thinke yt to be rightly baptised, but woulde baptise it hym self into the name of the Father, and of the Sonne, and of the holye Ghoste. And if vnto the last question it were aunswe­red by them that tooke vpon them to baptise, that they coulde not tell whether the childe so baptised by them were lawfully and perfectly baptised. I thinke he woulde baptise it hym self, at least wyse in the conditionall forme before rehearsed. By this you maye see that the matter is not so playne againste T.C. as M. D. woulde seme to make it by the iudgement of the booke, whiche requireth mo [...] [Page 17] thinges to the beinge of the Sacrament then M.D. do [...]he, [...] prescribeth a conditionall forme of Baptisme, for those of [...]hose baptisme it maye be doubted for want or ill vsing of any of those thinges before shewed.

12 He sayeth, that with what lawfullnes men maye offer them selues to the prayers and hearinge of the worde of God, they maye also offer them selues to the Lordes supper: whiche is a palpable error. pag. 532. and pag. 604. he affyrmeth directlye to the contrarie.

12 The twelueth is calleth a palpable error but yf I maye saye as I thinke the Censure is a palpable cauill for T. C. hath thes very wordes [...]her [...]he speakethe of this matter able inoughe to expresse his meaninge (I speake of those whiche are of the Churche and of discrescion to examine them selues.) M.D woulde make hym contrary to hym self, because he sayeth in another place that Papistes and ex­communicate persons must be compelled by the Magistrate to heare sermons, and yet not admitted to the communion so that by his censure these be two assertions directlye con­trarye on to the other. Suche as be of the Churche maye as well offer themselues to the communion as to the prayers and hearinge of the worde, and this: they that be not of the Churche, muste be compelled to heare but not permitted to receiue. Secondlye he makethe instan [...] of suche as be weake in fayth. corrupt in iudgement, ignoraunt in the right vse of the Sacrament, not knowinge howe to examine them selues: but T. C. excludeth all those that be in any suche re­specte vnmeete to examine them selues. I am sorye I haue troubled you with so manye wordes in so playne a matter.

13 He denyethe, that the Churche or any man, maye restrayne the people from bodely labor, in any of the syxe dayes: whiche i [...] to drawe from the Magistrate his lawfull a [...]ctoritie, and to giue carnall libertie to the people. pag 541.

13 The thirtenth assertion is condemned of Anabaptisme in abriging the Magistrat [...] lawfull auctoritie and of liber­tinisme in geuinge the people to muche carnall libertie. But good Lorde howe vniustlye? Hathe the Magistrate law­full auctoritie to commaunde the people to be ydle whiche God expreslye forbyddeth, or can any man ordeyne a reli­gious reste suche as God ordeyned one the Sabbat in the Lawe? For it muste be ether ydlenes or a Sabbat that thes Magistrate shoulde institute. For if the Magistrate or the Churche will cōmmaunde men to [...] from there [...] [Page 18] labors that they maye be imployed in publik affayres, or gi­uen to holye exercises. T. C. will not gaynsay it, as not many tymes before this assertion he affyrmeth playnelye. Nowe towchinge the carnall libertie that this assertion geuithe▪ [...]s M D. sayeth) I promise you I can not imagine what shoulde be mente thereby for I colde neuer conceaue that plowinge, cartinge and other laboringe of men in ther vocations, whe­reof T. C. speaketh, shoulde be compted carnall libertie.

14 He sayeth, that the lyfe of the Sacrament dependethe of the preachinge of the worde: whiche if it be true, then is the sa­crament of Baptisme not to be mynistred to infantes, because they can not heare the worde preached, and in dede this is the gr [...]de of Anabaptisme. pag. 566.

14 The fourtenth assertion is myghtely pressed with the accusation of Anabaptistrye partlye because the metaphor of lyfe is vrged so vehemently by M D and partlye because the speache of T C. in this place is sumwhat vnproper or els perhaps corrupted in the pryntinge. But first it is nether charitable no reasonable to expounde a metaphore too stronglye agaynste hym that vsed it, as yf a man should saye my lyfe is in your hands, it were harde to conclude agaynst hym, ergo it is not in your bodye, and so you are deade and then you muste be buryed, &c. Lykewise wher T C sayeth the lyfe of the Sacraments dependeth of the preachinge of Gods worde, it is an harde conclusion of M. D ergo the Sa­craments ministred without a sermone are deade, and beinge ministred to infants whiche can not vnderstande the sermon is not effectuall But where he sayeth that the lyfe of the Sa­cramentes dependeth of the preachinge of the worde of God. I suppose he meanethe of the worde of God preached and declared, and peraduenture so his wordes were but alte­red by the prynter. For M D assertion of the lyfe of the Sa­cramentes, yf it be not charitablye expounded is as foule an error as he would seme to chardge T. C withall, and woulde brede as great absurdities For he sayethe "that the lyfe of the Sacramentes dependethe vpon Gods promysses expressed in his worde, and n [...]ther vpon preachinge nor readinge." For yf the lyfe of the Sacramentes dependethe vpon Gods promisses, expressed in his word: although the same be neuer read nor preached and declared the Popishe masse maye be counted the Lordes supper althoughe the Lorde [...] deathe be not therin preached and declared, nor yet reade to the edi­feynge of the people. Agayne yf the lyfe of the Sacraments dependethe altogether vpon Gods promysses expressed i [...] his worde, and nothinge at all of preachinge or declaring [...] [Page 19] of the same, they maye be mynistred to infidells, for there can be no fayeth where there is no preachinge of Gods worde. They giue lyfe ex opere operato, of the worke wrought as the Papists saye to all that receaue them, whe­ther they be worthye or vnworthye, within the couenaunte or without it. But I knowe M D. will aunswer that he dothe not exclude preachinge. The lyke maye be sayd of T. C. that he dothe not exclude the promysses of Godes worde, but ioyneth preachinge to them althoughe he dothe not of necessitie require preachinge immediatlye before e­uery action of there administration, but that of necessytie the worde of God must not only be reade, but also preached and declared vnto the people amongest whom the Sacra­ments are mynistred, or els they maye be ministred amonge the Turkes and Iewes So that yf the assertion of T. C. [...]e weyghed with indifferencie it tendeth no more to Anaba­baptistrie, then the assertion of Iho [...] Whytgifte to Papi­strie.

15 He doubteth, whether he maye call hym mynister or no, that can not preache, whiche beinge [...] with his former [...], that the mynister is if the beinge of the Sacramente, it will fall out, that he counteth all those not baptised whiche haue bee [...] baptised by any other than by preachers. pag. 568. and 6 [...].

15 The fyften Censure is a mea [...]e cauill, taken vp by [...] ­kinge a phrase of speakinge contrarie to the speaker. Al­though it semeth that ether M.D. or his printer [...]athe lefte out some wordes pag. 568, whiche T. C is chardged to vse by the Censure in the table. For in the pag. 568. he is made to speake th [...]s, That there shoulde be in steade of a preachinge mynister (yf I maye so call hym) and in steade of preachinge readinge, &c as thoughe he doubted whether a preachinge mynister were a mynister whiche is cleane contrarie to that he is burdened withall in the Censure: But lett it be as the Censure reporteth that his wordes are of a mynister that can not preache, dothe he doubte whether he be in any re­specte a mynister? because he sayeth (yf I maye so call hym) In deede this manner of speakinge declareth that he iudgethe hym that can not preache a man vnworthy to be a mynistre, but he dothe not denye hym altogether Or [...] what saye we to these speaches? Nero a most cruell man▪ yf I maye call hym a man, whiche is so farre from all huma­nitie? Dyd he tha [...] so spake, doubte whether Nero was a man in nature? Iosephus sayethe of Christe in those dayes there was a man called Iesus (yf I maye call hym a man) dothe Iosephus doubte whether he were a naturall [...] [Page 20] One sayethe to his seruaunte, thou wycked seruaunt (yf I maye so call thee whiche behauest thy selfe more lyke a master then a seruaunte dothe he doubte whether he be his seruaunte or no? A man speakethe to his wyfe thou arte a disobedient wyfe, yf I maye call the a wyfe, whiche carest so lytle for they husbande. Doth this man doubte whether the woman were his wyfe? you see what a childish cauill this is, to grounde so great a slaunder of Anabaptistrie vpon it. The lyke fonde quarellinge he vsethe pag 583. wher T. C. hathe these wordes▪ What reason is there that it shoulde be graunted to one that can not preache (beinge as they call hym a mynister (to mynister bothe the Sacramentes when as the same [...] not permitted to a Deacon (as they call hym) whiche is able to preache. M. W. noteth in the margent ‘why? do you ac­count hym no mynister?’ this geare woulde be marked. In deede it woulde be marked or ells M. D. woulde [...] awaye all with cauillinge and slaunderinge. For who seethe not althoughe he haue but one eye that T. C. speaketh of the vnproper vsinge of these termes Mynister and Deacon▪ whiche signifye all one and yet are commonly vsed for di­uers offices, and that whiche is proper to the one as he sayeth made common to the other: not denying, but affyr­ming hym to be a mynister where he sayeth, beinge a my­nister (as they call hym) for these wordes onelye (as they call hym) shoulde be enclosed with the parenthesis, as in the next member of the sentence, where he speaketh of the Deacon (as they call hym) where the phrase is all one.

6 He semeth to be of this iudgement, that onely those whiche be of the famelye of God ought to be baptised: whiche is a daun­gerous error, for not all that be baptised are of the famelye of God. pag 621.

16. The syxtene assertion is counted a daungerous error, and affyrmed in M. D. opinion to sauor very stronglye of heresye, but what heresy he sheweth not. T C sayeth that baptisme is an entrye into the house of God▪ whereby only the famely of God muste enter, and those he countethe to be of the famely of God, whiche be cleane, holy, and within the couenant M.D. replyethe, that no man can tell who be electe and who reprobate: therefore lett hym baptize, the children of Turkes and Iewes, yea the Turkes and Iewes them selues, without conuersion vnto the fayeth, because no man knoweth whether they be electe or reprobate. But it semeth he forgettethe what S. Paule wryteth 1. Cor 7. For there he teacheth vs to knowe who be cleane and who vncleane, who holy and who vnholy, who within the co­uenaunt [Page 21] and who without it, and wher he sayeth that all that be baptised are not of the famelye of God, he is con­trary to hym self in other places, where he countethe all them that are baptised to be Christians pag 518. and ells w­here: and yf they be Christians they be of the famely of God, yet all that are baptised with externall baptisme be not the electe of God, but onely suche as are baptised with the holye Ghost yet all that are baptised maye be counted of the famelye of God, which is the Churche so longe as they nether departe from it nor are iustlye caste out of yt.

17 He secludeth the children of excommunicate persons, and of professed Papistes from the sacrament of Baptisme, vntill they be able to make a confession of there fayth: whiche smelleth very strongly of Anabaptisme, and it is a manifest error pag. 622.

17 The seuententh assertion is chardged to smell very stronglye of Anabaptistrye, and to be a manifeste error. Surely yf it be an error it is not so manifeste as M. W. affyr­meth, but whether yt be an error or no it is farre inoughe from the sauor of Anabaptistry, excepte it be in suche a mans nose that hathe raked so longe in the puddle of Ana­baptistrye to espye yf he coulde fynde his brother drowned in it, that his heade is so stuffed with the stinke of it, that he imagineth all thinges where he commeth to sauour of it, For allthough T. C. affyrme that the children of heretykes and other excommunicate persons ought not to be receiued to baptisme before there parents repente yet yf they be re­ceued, he denyeth not there baptisme nether would he haue them rebaptised, yf they imbrace the Christiane religion which there parentes reiected. yf a man affyrme that matry­monie ought not to be solempnised without the consent of parentes, he doth not deny the matrimonie which is already solempnised or giue the partis leaue to marry others or will them to be maryed agayne. m. D. houldeth that baptisme ought not to be ministred without a surples yet he woulde be lothe to be counted an Anabaptiste as to denye that the baptisme mynistred without a surples is lawefull, and to saye that therefore yt muste be mynistred agayne. Now con­cerninge the error whiche is made so manyfeste and affyr­med to be voyde of all Scripture, reason, and auctoritie▪ suerlye yf it haue not Scripture (as yf it be an error it [...] not) yet it hathe greate apparence of Scripture, and suche as might moue as greate a clearke as D. Whytgifte [...]. For Math 18. Christ willeth that an excommunicate person [...] should be as an heathen or publicane, wher vpon by reason a man will inferre. But the childe of an heathen man [...] [Page 22] not to be receiued to baptisme, therefore nether the childe, of an excommunicate man shoulde be admitted But the iud­gement of Beza is contrarye, I graunt, but yet his reasons are not so cleare that they can satisfye euerye simple man whiche buyldeth vpon these words of our Sauiour Christe math. 18. yf he refuse to heare the Churche lett hym be to thee as an heathen and publicane. Notwithstandinge I hope that for asmuche as T. C. is nowe at Geneua with M Beza (as I heare) of whom he is iudged to be one of the best lear­ned in Europe, that by godly conferens had betwene them ether T. C. shall be willynge to acknowledge his error in this matter, or yf he be able to defende it by the worde of God M Beza hym self will reuoke his iudgement.

18 He sayeth that princes must remember to subiect them selues vnto the Churche, to submit theire Scepters, to throwe downe there crownes, before the Churche, and to lycke the duste of the feete of the Churche: And by the Churche he meaneth the presbyterye and eldershyp: so that he woulde haue Princes in as great bondage to his seniors, as euer they were to the Pope. pag. 645.

18 In the eightenth assertion T. C. is greuously chardged as thoughe he woulde sett vp a newe Popedome, because he sayeth with the prophet Esaye cap. 49. that Princes muste worship the Churche with there [...]aces to the earthe, and lycke the duste of her feete. I meruayle what he maye speake without daunger of heresye M D. beinge his iudge yf he maye not speake the wordes of the Scripture. But M. D. improueth not the sayinge, for then the deuill were on hym but his meaninge, for by the Churche (sayethe he) he meanethe the Presbyterie or Eldership. But who made hym so preuye of his meaninge? forsoothe the pag. 140. by the wordes of Christ, Dic Ecllesiae, tell the Churche, he meane­th the Eldership, therefore alwayes wheresoeuer he spea­keth of the Churche he meanethe the Eldershippe: a pro­per conclusion. So thoughe he speake neuer so well yf M. D. maye interprete his meaninge he can not escape suspicion of heresye. Howbeit in this place as I coulde neuer haue imagined any suche meaninge, so it is euident to all men that he hathe no suche meaninge for his wordes, his reason, the auctoritie of the Prophete whom he cyteth do all te­stifye that he meanethe the Churche in the moste common and vsuall sence, and as it is the bodye of Christe in whose respecte beinge hir heade she oughte to haue all this honor that is spoken of. But m. D. will haue a Prince in no respecte subiecte to the seniors, nor yet to [...] calleth [Page 23] in scorne, whose name and office is yet auctorized by God. And whether he woulde haue hym exempt from discipline I doe not playnlye see, but as farre as I can perceiue he woulde. And then he condemneth Ambrose fo [...] excommuni­catinge the Emperor Theodosius for the murder committed in Thessalonica, and manye other godly fathers whiche dyd exercise discipline vpon Christian princes. And verely the reasons that he vseth maye serue to set a Prince aboue the doctrine, Sacramentes, discipline and all. But he is altogether deceiued for the subiection that is required of Princes is spirituall and not carnall▪ vnto God and not to men, deroga­tinge nothing from there princelye maiestie, nor from the [...]e auctoritie, no not from that auctoritie whiche they haue ouer persons Ecclesiasticall, and in causes Ecclesiasticall. Yf a Prince submitt hym selfe to the doctrine of his Pastor▪ to learne that he knoweth not, to reforme that wherein he is iustlye reproued, to receyue the Sacraments of his hande, to be blessed of hym, to haue his synnes forgiuen by hym (I speake but as Christe speaketh) he is not made as M. D sayeth a seruaunt no master, a subiect no Prince, vnder gouernement no gouernor in matters perteyninge to the Churche: but remaynethe still a master of men thoughe a seruant of God, a prince of people yet a subiect to the Kinge of Kinges, a gouernor in matters pertaininge to the Churche thoughe vnder the gouernement of Christe. Right so, yf he submitt hym selfe to the discipline of the Churche, whiche is no auctoritie of men, but as S. Paule callethe it 1. Cor 5. the power of our Lorde Iesus Christe, he abaseth not hym selfe otherwyse then he ought to doe. For those textes. Quicquid ligaueritis & quicquid ligaueris, matth 16. and 18. whatsoeuer you shall bynde and whatsoeuer thou shalt bynde, whose synnes soeuer you reteyne Iohn 20. Yf any that is called a brother 1. Cor. 5 be so generall, that in myne opinion they make Princes as well as poore men subiect to the discipline of the Churche, whiche is no earthly, ciuill, or humane auctoritie, but the power of our Lorde Iesus Christ for the saluation of there soules 1. Cor 5 As for the auctorytie of master Galter and other Heluetians is of smal waight in this case for they do not onely exempte princes but all other men from discipline of excommunica­tion, whose grosse error seing it is contrarye to our state which alloweth discipline Ecclesiasticall though not suche as T C requirethe I meruayle what master D. meaneth to publishe for good auctoritie.

12 He sayeth, pag 646 that the gouernement of the Common wealthe muste be framed accordinge to the gouernement of the [Page 24] Churche, euen as the hanging to the house: and he affyrmeth that the gouernement of the Churche is Aristocraticall or popu­lare: whiche is a daungerous errour, and springeth of this that he doth not distinguyshe betwixt the essentiall poyntes of the gouernement of the Churche, and the accidentall poyntes of the same: for the essentiall poyntes of Ecclesiasticall gouernement [...] maye well agree with any lawfull state of common wealthe, and ciuill kinde of gouer [...]ement: as the gospell maye be truelye prea­ch [...]d in them all, the Sacrame [...]tes ryghtly mynistred, disci­pline duelye executed and suche lyke: but the accidentall poyntes of gouernement (as the manner of electinge mynisters, the kinde of discipline, accidentall ceremonies, and other suche lyke rytes and circu [...]staunces) maye be varied accordinge to tyme, place, and persons, and are so to be framed, as they maye best agree with the state and gouernement of euery common wealth The ignoraunce of this distinction hath [...]ast T C into a great and perillous error

19 The nynetenth assertion is so violently drawen into an odious calumniation that I am lothe to leese any tyme in aunsweringe, but only to satisfie your request T. C. sayeth that the common wealth muste be made to agree with the Churche, and the gouernement thereof with her gouerne­ment whiche is all one as yf he had sayde the common wealthe muste be made to agree with the worde of God▪ and the gouernement thereof accordinge to the doctrine of the same: wherefore yf there be any thinge in, the common wealthe that agreeth not with the worde of God, the same muste be reformed accordinge to the worde of God, is not this a perilous doctrine? In deede it hath alwayes been ac­cepted so by Epicureans and Atheistes but I neuer hearde a diuine mislyke it before: but I herde a frende of myne once saye that malice is a most subtill sophister. As for the cauill of M D howe vayne it is experience it selfe dothe proue, for euen that gouernement of the Church which T.C requi­reth maye stande with any of the thre good states of a com­mon wealthe, whether it be Monarchye, Aristocratye, or De­mocratye The realme of Scottland is [...] Monarchye, and ther is established this gouernement of the Churche, the lyke also is intended by the Palsgraue whiche is a Monarche in his territorye, the cytties of Sauoye be partlye Aristocrati­call and partlye Democraticall in whiche this gouernement of the Churche hath longe tyme been practised: wherefore it is nether so straunge nor so daungerous a thinge as M▪ W. woulde seme to make it▪ As for the Censure of ignoraunce that he so proudlye obiecteth to hym, were more then nee­ded althoughe yt came from a farr better learned man the M. D. sheweth hym selfe to be.

[Page 25]20 He bothe ioyneth with the Papistes, in takinge from the Ciuill magistrates auctoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters, and also in confyrminge that error by their argumentes, and none other [...] pag 694.

20 The twentith is belyke no assertion of T C. for then he woulde haue sett downe his wordes but one of M. D. colle­ctions, whiche because we haue tryed them so charitable before there is no greate cause why we shoulde nowe be muche moued at them: sauinge that my thinke M. W. should not obiecte to T C. the confirminge of his opinion by the argumentes of the Papistes But to the purpose T.C is accu­sed to take from the ciuill Magistrate auctoritie in Ecclesia­sticall matters. Yt is well that he leaueth hym auctoritie ouer Ecclesiasticall persons. But what auctoritie or in what matters dothe he take from the ciuill Magistrate? Hathe the ciuill Magistrate auctoritie to preache, to mynister the Sacramentes to excommunicate? I am suer he will saye no. What is lefte then, but to prouide that these thinges maye be donne to the glorye of God. I am suer that T C. will not denye this auctoritie. But howe shall he prouide? by lawes, decrees, constitutions How shall these lawes, decrees constitutions be directed? by the worde of God. Of whom shall the ciuill Magistrate be instructed in the worde of God, what and whereof it is expedient that Ecclesiasticall lawes, shoulde be made? by his godlye and learned Cler­gye: except in these matters he be wyser and better learned then all his Cleargye in whiche case he maye and ought to ordeyne whatsoeuer is agreable to the worde of God for the benefyte of his Churche not onlye without, but euen a­gainst the consent of the state Ecclesiasticall. All this T. C. yeldeth vnto and of there by any thinge ells that M. D. can proue to be the lawfull auctoritie of the ciuill Magistrate in causes Ecclesiasticall I doubte not but it shalbe lyke­wise graunted In the meane tyme lett M. W. geue to the ci­uill Magistrate what he will T C. for any thinge that I can perceiue by his wrytinge will take nothing from hym, that is due to hym by the worde of God.

21 He affyrmeth, that the readinge of the Scryptures without the preaching, can not deliuer so muche as one poore shepe from destruction, &c. [...]herein he is also contrary to hym self. pag. 784.

21 In the laste place it is noted for a daungerous poynte of doctryne tha [...] T. C. affyrmeth that bare readinge of the Scriptures without preachinge can not deliuer one poore shepe of destruction. You muste vnderstande that he spea­keth [Page 26] not of attentiue readinge, weyinge, and conferringe, of the Scriptures ioyned, with humble and hartye prayer, but of readinge suche as is vsed in the Churche seruice, and yet he excepteth the extraordinarye workinge of God. The best confutinge of this error hadde been for M. D. to haue brought in some instance of some on Papiste conuerted to the Gospell by onlye readinge in the Churche, or of anye wycked man become a godlye man that hath hadde none other instruction, but as he hathe hearde the Psalmes and chapters reade in the seruice at Churche, whiche yf he can doe I will not defend T.C. error in this poynte. But whereas he makith hym contrarye to hym selfe he dothe hym w­ronge For in the place whiche he quoteth 158. T. C. prefer­reth readinge of Scriptures in the Churche before readinge of homelyes. And that whiche he sayeth of the playnnes and easynes of vnderstandinge of Gods worde is auctorized by the Prophete: whiche is spoken of the nature of Gods worde (as I take it) and not of the aptnes of mens, vnder­standinge whiche is grosse and blinde. The sonne is not lyghte to a blynde man, no more is the worde of God playne to the naturall man For my parte I see no contraryetie in these matters.

NExt followethe a note of vntruthes and falsefied aucto­rities, &c. whereof some be ouersightes and humane slippes which in a brother shoulde not so egerlye be perse­cuted, some be doubtfull and disputable matters and there­fore not to be so rashlye condemned: the moste parte are cauills and wrestinges suche as hathe been detected before. But yf they were all suche as M. D. woulde haue, yet his cause is not ouerthrowne by them therefore no greate vi­ctorye obteyned of them. This nombringe of vntruthes in the B. of Sarum. parlye for the synceritie of his Censures, partlye for the noueltye of the matter, and partlye for the odiousnes of his aduersaryes cause was worthely well thought of, but I can not tell howe it commethe to passe that in M. W. it semethe stale, preiudiciall, and inuidious. The examininge of these notes requireth the iudgement of one, that hath diligently redde ouer the Doctors, or at the leaste hathe a good librarie of them by hym, whereof I haue ne­ther: wherefore you might do well to require the same of some other your frendes that are diuines who can better sa­tisfye you. But because you haue so importunatlye requi­red my simple iudgement, I will do the beste I can to shewe you my opinion.

1 He sayeth, that it appeareth in the eighte chapter of the booke of Nehemias, that the feaste of Tabernacles, whiche was com­maunded of the Lorde to be celebrated euerye yeare, was not ce­lebrated from the dayes of Iosua the sonne of Nun, vntill the retourn of their captiuitie: whiche is a manifest vntruthe as it is euident 1. Esdras 3.. and it is also againste the opinion of all the interpreters. pag 8.

1 Yf the residue of his Censures be lyke the fyrste by whiche as by a gate he letteth vs into the reste, there is more truthe in T. C vntruthes then in M. W. iudgement of vn [...]truthes T. C. sayethe ‘that the feaste of Tahernacles [...] not kepte from the dayes of Iosua the sonne of Nun, vntill the retourne of the people from there captiuitie.’ M D. sayeth it is a manifeste vntruthe, as it is euident 1. Esdr. 3. truelye yf he haue no better euidence to vpholde his cause then to alleadg that whiche was donne after the retourne to proue that it was donne before ther retourn [...] ▪ [Page 28] his cause will sone fall to the grounde. In deede it is recor­ded 1. Esdr. 3. that the feaste of Tabernacles was celebrated, but all men will confesse that it was after there retourne and not before Then see the boldnes and bytternes of this man, and accordinge to this welcome, looke for good enter­taynement at this table of vntruthes of his furnishinge. Yet he sayethe it is against the opinion of all the interpre­tors: suppose you that he hathe reade all the interpreters? for my parte I thinke not for I heare saye that he is vtterly ignoraunt bothe of the Greke and Ebrue tounges thoughe he make some showe of bothe in his booke. And it is not to be thought but some learned Grecians haue commented vpon these bookes of Esdras and Nehemias, and I thinke you remember what our frende M. N sayed of a certayne Rabbine that is an Ebrue interpretor called Rabbi salamon Iarhii, who thinketh it possible that nether in the dayes of Dauid, nor in the dayes of Kinge Salamon, that feaste was celebrated vntill the dayes of Esdras: but yf the place be to be vnderstaunde as M D with all his interpreters expounde it, yet the wordes sounde otherwyse vntill the contrarye be shewed. for it maye be that Esdras and Nehemias speake bothe of one tyme and the other exposition seruethe T. C. purpose euen as well. For in that place the former ages are reproued yf for not omittinge yet for not so solemplye ke­pinge, that feaste as they shoulde haue downe by the Lawe.

2 Iosias is alleadged for Ezechias. pag. 10.

2 This might be the faulte of hym that coppyed out thee fyrst wrytinge, or the faulte of the prynter, or yf it were the faulte of T. C. it is confessed by M D to be a lyght ouer­sight, and suche as he hym selfe hathe triped in once or twyse.

3 This worde (especially) is added to the texte 1. Cor 10. pag. 86.

3 Yt is a great faulte to adde any thinge to the Scriptures. But he that giueth the true meaninge in other wordes dothe nether adde to the Scriptures nor chaunge them. His words [...] these. "That they offende not anye, especiallie the Churche of God." S. Paule sayeth. Be suche as giue no of­fence nether to the Iewes, nor to the grecians, nor to the Churche of God Now whether those that are weake in the Churche of God are especially to be consydered rather then Iewes or Gentills whiche are out of the Churche, is all the question. M. D. sayeth they that are out of the [Page 29] Churche are especiallye to be regarded. But he onelye sayeth it without other reason or auctorytie. For reason of the contrarye syde this maye be sayde: that as charytie is the chiefe rule in auoydinge offences and charytie regar­deth especially those that are of the how shoulde of faythe, so we muste haue especiall care not to offende them. The Apostle also speaketh moste of them teachinge to auoyde offences calling them thy brother, thy weake brother, those for whom Christ dyed, &c Rom 14 1. Cor 8.

4 He opposeth Ignatius and Tertullian, to Ambrose and Au­gustine, as thoughe Ambrose and Augustine shoulde thinke it to be lawefull to faste on the Lords daye, and the other two should wrytte the contrarie: whereas Ambrose and Augustine fullye agree with Ignatius and Tertullian in that matter pag 99.

4 The wordes of T. C. be these. ‘I will not enter nowe to discusse whether it were well donne to faste in al places accordinge to the custome of the place you oppose Ambrose and Augustine. I coulde oppose Ignatius and Tertullian, whereof the one sayeth that it is nefas a detestable thinge to faste vpon the Lordes daye, the other that it is to kill the Lorde, and this is the inconuenience that commeth of suche vnlearned kinde of reasoninge Sainte Ambrose sayethe so, and therfore it is true.’ In the 99 pag this is noted to be an vntruthe procedinge of ignoraunce, but in deede this a false and a proude Censure proceding of malyce and arrogance, as thoughe T. C coulde not tell what difference is betwene the Sabbat and the Lordes daye I shoulde haue reade these wordes an hun­dreth tymes, and neuer vnderstoode that he opposeth Igna­tius and Tertullian to Ambrose and Augustine, but to M. D. Whytgifte, and his kinde of reasoninge as M. Whytgifte op­poseth Ambrose and Augustine to his aduersarye. For yf the auctoryties of Ambrose and Augustine be irrefragable for fastinge one satterdaye, then the auctoryties of Ignatius and Tertullian are the lyke touchinge fastinge one Son­daye: which notwithstanding are meare absurdities But as it is not so haynouse an offence to faste on Sondaye, because Ignatius and Tertullian saye so: So no more is the rule of fastinge one satterdaye true because Ambrose and Augustine saye so.

5 He mangleth sainte Augustines words bothe before, behinde and in the middest pag 107.

5 This is a friuolous quarellinge for T. C. pretendeth not to recyte the wordes of Augustine, nor to translate them [Page 30] into Englysh, but onlye to giue the somme of his meaninge. whiche he dothe sufficientlye to showe that M. D. hathe no greate grounde in that epistell ad Ianuarium, &c.

6 Pag 144 he falsefyeth the woords of saint Paule 1. Tim 3. and vntruelye translateth them.

6 Yt is no smale offence to falsefye the worde of God, and therefore M. W. shoulde be well aduised before he accuse his brother of so horrible a crime. God forbyd that euery one whiche erreth in translation, shoulde be a falsefyer of Godes worde muche lesse he that giueth suche a translation as the originall worde will beare, whiche I thinke T. C. dothe in this place: his wordes are pag. 144. ‘And beinge tryed lett them execute there functions, as longe as theye remaine blameles.’ Firste he translateth not worde for worde, for then he woulde haue sayd, and lett them be tryed fyrste, and then lett them minister beinge blamelesse. So that it maye well be, that he mente onlye to gather an ar­gument of the Apostles wordes, who yf he will not haue Deacons admitted to minister before they be tryed, and in try all founde blameles, no more woulde he haue them per­mitted to remayne in that office yf they do not contynewe blameles. What falsefyinge is here ether of the wordes or of the meaninge of the Apostle. But yf he ment to translate those wordes 'anegclytoi 'ontes so longe as they remaine blameles: Theye are better Grecians then M. D. is compted to be that thinke it maye stand bothe with signification of the worde, and with the circunstaunce of the place, for S. Paule dothe not only speake of election of Deacons: but also of suche qualities as shoulde contynewe in them after they be chosen. Therefore yf it be an errour (whiche wilbe harde for M. D. to proue) it is no errour in matter, but in translation and no falsification: except M. D. wilbe compted a falsefier for reading out of the 12. of the Apocalypse verse 11 and expoundinge it also accordinge to his readinge "by the worde of his testimonie," wher he shoulde haue sayde by the worde of ther testimonye Yt is lyke he dyd reade it out of Erasmus translation, whiche is, propter sermonem te­stimonii sui, whiche yf a man marke not the reciprocation of sui, maye deceaue hym, beinge not a verye cunninge Grammarian. This was vttered within these two or thre yeres in a sermon at Paules crosse, and noted by manye learned man, whiche had there greake Testaments, whereof one syttinge by me sayd, that before that tyme he thought M W had been a verye good Grecian▪ but nowe he percey­ued the contrarye that he coulde not so muche as reade his [Page 31] texte in Greeke, whiche yf he had doen he coulde not haue been deceyued. And yet in my conscience as I am suer he dyd erre in translatinge, so woulde I not iudge hym to be a falsefier of Gods worde, because I thinke he erred of sym­plicitie and not of malice.

7 He sayeth that Israelites when they worshipped the Calfe sayd, that they woulde kepe holly daye to the Lorde Iehoua: which is not true. pag. 151.

7 I praye God nether T. C nor Io. Whytgifte neuer erre more then T. C hathe erred in this poynte, for then I trust they shoulde neuer be deceiued but what is the error? Aa­ron sayde so but not the people, but Aaron was then the heade of the people, and they all consented to kepe holye daye the next morowe accordinge to his proclamation, the­refore the people sayde so, as well as Aaron But M W. obie­ctethe: the people sayde these by thy Gods o Israell, whiche brought thee out of lanee of Egypt They sayde so in deede, but they sayde not so to controll Aarons proclamation, and so to denye that they woulde kepe holye daye to Iehoua. But contrarye wyse euen those there wordes declare that they purposed not to chaunge there God, but to worshipe the same God whiche brought them out of Egypte in that visible forme of a calfe. And because M. D. thinketh there is no wrytter that so dothe take it let hym reade Caluine bothe in his Institution lib. 1. cap. 11, sectione 8. and in his Harmonye vpon Exod. 32.

7 He citeth a place out of Iustinians Code, whiche can not as yet be founde there, nether dothe he faythfully reporte, but sub­tilly suppresse the wordes whiche explane the matter, as they be sett downe by Illyricus of whom he borrowed them. pag 184.

8 Seinge he dothe acknowledge that he hathe the place of Illyricus collections it is no faulte in hym, yf it be wronge quoted, as for the surmyse of suppressinge somme of the wordes is without grownde, for he alleadgeth that consti­tution onlye for this ende, to shewe that the consent of the Churche in the election of there mynister maye stande with the tyme of a Christian magistrate, because Iustinian a Chri­stiane Emperour, decreed, that so often as a mynisters place was voyde, the inhabiters of the Cyttye shoulde chuse three, &c. This is nether vntruthe, nor falsification in alled­ginge auctoritye, to leaue out that, whiche perteyneth no­thinge to the purpose for whiche th'auctoritye is cited.

[Page 32]9 He sayeth that Platina wrytteth, that L [...]dowicke the second [...] commaundeth the Romaines to chose there owne Byshope: whiche is not true, for he only commended them for so doinge, he dyd not commaund them. pag. 186.

9 Commaundinge and commendinge differ but in one let­ter, and therefore this might be the faulte of the wrytter or prynter: or yf it were lapsus memoriae forgetfulnes of the auctor, yet the matter for whiche it is alleadged is true, he commendeth them for chusinge a good Byshope, non expec­tato aliorum voto, &c. not lokinge for others mens voyces, whiche beinge straungers colde not so well tell what was donne, or to be donne in the common weale were they where straungers, and that it apertaineth to the citizens (all whiche M D slyely passeth one) rhet will I not s [...]ye that ye is a fal­sefyer for carpinge at that whiche is not materiall, and sup­pressinge that matter whiche is principally to be regarded for that whiche is in question.

10 He sayeth, that these which wryte the Centuries suspecte the councell of Lacdicea, which forbiddeth the election of mynisters to be committed to the people, and doubte whether it be a ba­starde or not which is vntrue, for the Authors of the Centuryes make no suche doubte. pag 188.

10 The matter is not worth the wagginge of a strawe whe­ther they doubte yf this canon were a bastarde▪ or ells de­creed against the truethe, and those wordes of thers, which M. D alleadgeth concerning this Canon, Mirum qua veri­tare, it is maruayle by what truethe, for any thinge that I see, maye be taken, that ether they thinke the Canon conn­terfeyted, or ells they erred that made it. The one sence is as good for T C. as the other.

11 He sayeth, that Ierome willeth that the people should haue power and a [...]ct [...]iti to chose Clerkes and ministers, which is not so, for Ierom willeth no suche thinge. pag. 203.

11 Here is nether falsification, nor vntruthe for Ierome wordes are not alleadged by T C. therefore not falsefyed, and where he sayethe that Ierome willeth: he meaneth, that Ierome alloweth the people there righte in election. As those wordes do shewe, whiche M D. alleadgeth, out of Ierome ‘Cum ad perfectam [...]atem veneris, si tamen vita comes [...], & te vel populus vel Pontifex ciuitaris in [Page 33] clerum elegerit, agito quae cleri sunt:’ when thou shal [...] come to parfect age, but so that good lyfe be a companion [...] and that ether the people or the byshope of the cytie, chuse thee into the clergie, do those thinges that belonge to a clerke By these wordes it aperithe, that he woulde not haue Rusticus intrude hym se [...]fe, without lawfull election, and that he compted that a lawfull election, whiche is made by the people, and confyrmed by the byshope: but whereas M. D. shoulde make it indifferent, whether he were chosen by the byshope alone, or by the people, because Ierome sayth, ether the people or the byshope, it is without collour of reason For he maye no more gather by those wordes, that the byshope might chuse without the people, then that the people might chuse without the byshope. But the cause of that distinction is, that in that age, somtime the people woulde chuse a minister, whom they thought meere and af­terward bringe hym to the byshop to be admitted by hym, as appeareth in the worke of Chrysostom De sacerdotio, of the chusinge of Basill when Ihon Chrysostom hym self gaue hym the s [...]ypp Sometymes the byshop woulde espye a meere man hym self, & require the consent of the people to chuse as it appearethe by Augustine in the election of Eradius to be his successor. Wherefore this Censure, as manye other might well inoughe haue been spared.

12 He alleadgeth Musculus his wordes in steade of Ieromes [...] and that whiche onlye Musculus sayeth in his common places, [...] ascribeth to Ierome in his Epist to Nepotian e [...]d.

12 Here be the words of Musculus alledged for the words of Ierome, whiche was in dede an ouersght, but it maye be excused by the lacke of bookes. Yf M D. had charged hym with greate negligence, it had been suffycient, but when he vpbraydeth hym with grosse ignorance, it is more then nedeth excepte he accompteth it grosse ignorans in T.C. be­cause he can not saye all Ieromes workes without booke. But touchinge the substaunce of the matter, th'exchaunge of Musculus for Ierome is no greate losse, for Musculus is as well learned, and of sounder iudgement them euer Iero­me was.

13 He sayeth that Nazian. ( [...] oration that he wryteth at the deathe of his father) confuteth these reasons, that seme to [...] der the election of Mynisters by the Churche, and yet is there no suche thinge to be founde in that oration. pag 205.

[Page 34]13 M D. hym selfe confesseth pag 206 as muche as T.C. re­quireth to be proued by this oration, that is, that the peo­ple in that tyme had interest in the election of mynisters. ‘No man (sayeth he denyeth) but that the people at this tyme had interest in the election of the mynister in diuers Churches.’ Therefore the conclusion of T. C. is voyde of vntruthe or falsification. ‘These were learned fathers, and yet thought not that the election of the Pastor or Byshop perteyned to one man alone, but that the Churche had also her interest. Therefore you see all the learned fa­thers are not of that mynde you say they are.’

14 He referreth the reader to the 6.3.7. booke of Eusebius, for examples of elections of the people and clergie confyrmed by the Christian Magistrate, namelye in the byshope of Constanti­nople: and yet there is [...]o suche examples, in these bookes, nether any mention of any byshope of Constantinople. pag. 207.

14 For the election of the Clergie and people mentioned in these two bookes of Eusebius lib. 6 cap 10. & lib. 7. cap. 30. Whiche M. W hym selfe hath founde out, althoughe he pycke manye quarrells vnto them, yet for asmuch as he g [...]aunteth in the ende, that the people in that tyme dyd gaue there consent in the electinge of there Byshope, it shalbe needles to saye any more of it. But herein he tryumpheth excedinglye that there was no suche election confyrmed by the Christian magistrate, namelye in the Byshope of Con­stantinople In this Assertion are three thinges to be consy­dered: one of substaunce, and two of circunstaunce. Of sub­staunce this: whether an example maye be founde, of the whole Churches election of a Byshope confyrmed by the magistrate? Of circunstaunce these two: one whether he were a Christiane magistrate, another whether it were the byshope of Constantinople. And as concerninge the fyrste whiche is the matter of substaunce: in the 7. booke of Eu­sebius cap 24 there is to be sene an example of the election of one Domius whiche was chosen by the whole Churche, and confyrmed by the Emperour Aurelianus. Now for the circumstaunce there is some error to be confessed, but suche as semethe moste probable to procede of the prynter, rather then of the Aucthor For Aurelianus althoughe at that tyme he fauored the Christians, and as Eusebius sayeth decreed moste hollyly in that requeste that was made to hym tou­chinge the Byshopes howse, yet can not properlye be called a Christian magistrate, and that T C knoweth very well, af­fyrming that Constantine was the fyrst christiane Emperour excepte Phillip. Wherfore this worde Christiane semethe to [Page 35] be added by the prynter, to fyll vp his lyne at the latter ende of a page. The other is misnaminge of Constantinople for Antioche, and this is lyke to be the mysreadinge of the prynter, yf the copye were hastelye wrytten in a ronninge hande, because Antino with is a parte of this worde Con­stantinople, hathe some resemblans with Antioche: some let­ters before and behinde beinge blotted and put out. But whereas M. d. iesteth so vnsa [...]earlye, of the buyldinge of Constantinople, Anno 335. and the byshope of Constanti­noples confyrmation fourtye yeres before Constantinople w [...]s: notinge in the margent, a grosse ouersighte of T.C. per­aduenture it bewrayeth as grosse ignoraunce of Io. W. for Constantinople was not fyrst buylded by Constantine anno 335 but bewtifyed and enlarged beinge before a verye aun­cyente and noble cyttie called Byzantium, and had byshops as Nicephorus wytnessethe euer synce the Apostles tyme, lib 8. cap. 6. amonge whom was one Dometius, brother of the emperour Probus. Who succeded Aurelianus, whiche Dometius hadde two sonnes that succeded hym in the by­shopryck. Fyrst Probus, and then Metrophanes, whiche was byshope, when Constantine began his great buyldinge at Constantinople Wherefore it maye be that T. C hathe reade some wheare, of the electinge and confyrminge of these by­shopes, that were so neare of Kynne to the Emperours. [...] hereof I can not pronounce.

15 He fathereth a manifest vntruthe vpon Eusebius lib. 6. touchinge Origens admission into the mynisterie. pag. 209.

15 He speaketh neuer a worde of Origens admission into the mynisterie, as M. d. vnderstandeth the worde mynister, to be the same whom he calleth prieste, and whiche of the common people be called priestes and mynisters. But he sayethe that Origene ‘Was admitted not of one byshope, but af manye byshopes to teache,’ whiche were reproued by Demetrius byshope of Alexandria, ‘because they had admitted hym without the election of the presbyterie of the Churche.’ countinge hym but a laye man, whiche was not so elected, althoughe he were admitted by many by­shopes. Therefore all that M. d. bringeth in to proue that Origene was afterwardes made a mynister, &c. is to no pur­pose for T.C. sayethe not, that he was admitted a mynister at this tyme, but a teacher, and yet counted a laye man by Demetrius, because he lacked the election of the presby­terie. For yf he had been lawfully chosen to be but a reader, he coulde not in that tyme, haue been iustlye compted a laye [Page 36] man, muche lesse yf he had been lawfully chosen to be a teacher, and instructer of the Churche. Wherefore it appea­reth that Demetrius called hym a laye man, because he de­med hym not to be lawfully elected And the Byshops them selues defend not there election, but shewe, that laye men beinge learned, haue been requyred of sondry byshopes to teache the people in presence of the byshop Wherein they aunswere de facto out not de iure, that is they shewe what hathe been doen, but not what ought to be doen. Neuer­theles the chiefe matter that stycketh in M. W. stomacke is, howe it maye be proued, that Demetrius comp [...]ed hym a laye man, that was admitted without the election of the presbyterie. Fot he askethe whether there be any thinge soun­dinge that waye. But yf he had read Eusebius in Greeke, for that which he hath turned (when as yet he was not or­deyned mynister) he might haue giuen it an other sownde and translated it: when as yet he had not obteyned the ele­ction of the presbyterie, for the wordes are th [...]se, Kai toi tes tou presbuteriou xeirotoneias. Oud [...]po te [...]uxekota, auton▪ and where is then this manifest vntrueth fathered vpon Eusebius touchinge Origens admission into the my­nisterie? But it semeth that M. D is better acquainted with the sounde of Lattin then of Greeke for he discusseth not any translation so it will serue his tourne.

16 He leaneth [...]ut the words of the councell of Chalcedon, that open the meaninge of the councell. pag 222.

16 Those wordes that he leaueth out open no matter a­gainst hym. The wordes craftelye lefte out as M. D. sayeth be, he Marturio, he Monasterio whiche signifye, or in some Churche buylded in the memory, of a martyr, or in a mona­sterie. For (sauinge M. W. auctoritie) these were pastorall charges aswell as the other, for monasteries in that tyme, thoughe they were exempt places from other congrega­tions, yet dyd they conteyne a multitude of men, and there­fore were a congregation, whiche had nede of a pastor. And Martyria whether they were Paryshe Churches, or colled­ges, or hospitalles, they had also some people pertayninge to them, and were comp [...]ed seuerall congregations. Where­fore these wordes do rather confyrme then impugne the sayinge of T. C as you shall better perceaue by the whole Cannon. The Councell decreeth, ‘(That none be louslye or absolutlye ordeined Elder or Deacon, or in any Eccle­siasticall degree, except he that is to be ordained, be pro­nounced speciallie or properlie, in a congregation of some cittie or towne, or in a martyrie, or in a monasterie. And as [Page 37] for suche as are ordained absolutelie, the holye Synode hath decre [...]d, that suche imposition of handes be compted voyde, and that they maye mynister in no place, to the shame of hym that ordained them.)’ I blame not M D. wytte thoughe by cau [...]llinge at woordes, he woulde drawe men from consyderinge the matter of this Cannon. But I maruayle what he mean [...]th to seeke the vnderstandinge the­reof, out of the rapsodies of Graciane the Popes proctor, whiche groundeth his exposition vpon a false translation of komeis for possessioni [...], whiche M. D. translated truelye hym self, pag i of a towne or village.

17 He againe ascribeth Musculus his words to Ierome. pag. [...]adem.

17 And yet Ierome in the same Epistle, complayneth that there is no regarde of the election of mynisters. The aucto­ritie of Musculus is as good as of Ierome, but that he is not so auncient.

18 He denyeth that Chrysostome maketh a distinction betwixt Byshops and Elders, when as his words be playne. pag. 226.

18 M. W. in his former booke, alleadgeth Oecumenius ex­poundinge the presbyteri that S Paule speaketh of 1 Tim 4. to be suche Elders, as were also called byshopes, and affyr­meth that Chrysostome sayeth so in lyke manner. T. C. aun­swereth, that by Elders, he meaneth Byshopes, not to seuer those that had the gouernement of the Churche together with the pastor, but to make a difference betwene Elders by age, and Elders by offyce. M. D. for Oecumenius hath no­thinge to replye, and therefore hauing sayde or semed to saye that Chrysostomes woordes, quotinge no place of his woorkes, were all one with Oecumenius his woordes. T. C. might well thinke that in aunsweringe Oecumenivs he had aunswered Chrysostome. But nowe he bringeth other words of Chrysostome, sayinge that Elders dyd not ordaine the byshope, whiche in my mynde muste be vnderstaunde with some distinction, or ells they be contrarye to the woordes of S▪ Paule, who affyrmeth that Timo [...]hye receiued imposition of handes by the Presbyterie or Eldershipe, which woorde as the learned in the Greeke tounge doe testifye, is vsed Luke 22. and Act 22. for the companye of Elders, that had gouernement of the people.

19 He dothe vntruely and corruptly alledge Theodore [...]. pag. 268.

[Page 38]19 T. C. sayeth, ‘(that the place cited by master Bullinger maketh mention of a goulden cope, and that vsed by by­shopes of Hierusalem, and soulde by Cyrill a good by­shope, wherby he declared suffycientlie, his mislikinge of suche garnmentes in the ministerie of the Sacramentes.)’ m. doctor affyrmeth, that Theodorete compteth it but a fa­ble, that Cyrill shoulde make any suche sale. But what yf he dreame of a fable, wher none is talked of yf Theodo­rete be well vnderstande? But be it that he compteth it a fable, yet he maketh mention of sellinge a cope, and therfore no falsification And maste [...] doctor confesseth, that some w­ryters (and namethe Sozomenus) affyrme that he soulde it▪ but he declareth that it was not for any disalowinge of the vesture, but for necessitie of the poore in tyme of famyne. But where dothe Sozomenus declare that it was not for any disalowinge of the vesture? Lett master Whytgifte take hede that he falsefyeth not Sozomenus, otherwyse then he can proue that T.C falsefyeth Theodoretus. For althoughe Cy­rill bestowed the pryce on the poore, yet he shewed by the sale, that he thought it not necessarie, and that is a suffycient myslykinge, to iustefye the woordes of T.C.

20 He sayeth pag. 280. that the two treatise [...] called the Ad­monition were wrytten by diners persons, the one not knowinge the others doinges: the contrarie whereof is manyfestly de­clared.

20 It semeth that T.C. was not pryuie to there wrytinge, and therefore speaketh as farre as he knewe, and the matter is not worthe a Ryshe whether the one knewe of the others doinges or no.

21 He citeth Nicephorus coruptlie. pag. 326.

21 Nicephorus was a Greeke wryter, and therefore yf master Whytgifte, had alleadged his wordes in Greeke, he shoulde better haue shewed the corruption he speaketh of. But yf it were an ouersyght of T. C. to make Nicephorus saye, that Victor in glorye passed all the byshopes before hym, where as he shoulde haue sayde, that Victor in glorye went before all the byshopes of his tyme, yet it is all one to his purpose For it is vntrue that Nicephorus sayeth, because other byshopes were euen as gloryous as Victor byshope of Rome, and in true glorye manye wente before hym.

22 He falsefyeth a place in the fyrst of Iohn, by a false inter­pretation, to make it serue his turne. pag 302.

[Page 39]22 Yt woulde make a man to quake, to heare suche terrible accusations of falsefyinge the wordes, or meaninge of the holy Ghoste, yf he were not a [...]quainted with the wayght of master Whytgiftes censures I haue reade Caluine, Muscu­lus and other, vpon that place of Iohn, and they expounde it euen as T. C. dothe, and especially Caluine whiche al­loweth this to be a good reasone of the Pharesies: yf thou be nether Christe, nor Elyas, nor a Prophet, why doest thou baptise. For yf he had been none of these, he might not haue instituted a newe ceremonie in the Churche. But they were deceiued in this, that they knewe not Iohn to b [...] Elias promi­sed by Malachy, though he were not that Elias whom they dre [...]med of As for m [...]ster doctors coniecture that thei mente the Prophet promised deut 18. lyke to moses is friuolus▪ for there Moses forbyddeth the people to aske councell of wytches and con [...]ure [...]s, because God woulde from tyme to tyme rayse vp a Prophet amonge them: whiche shoulde be inspired of God as Moses was, of whom they shoulde be in­structed in all thinges that were meete for them to knowe. As for the place math 11. were Christe affyrmeth, that Iohn was a Prophet is aunswered by Caluine, and Musculus. For Iohn sayeth he was no Prophet, to tell of thinges to come. Christ sayeth he was more then a Prophet, because he was sent of God, to shewe that Messias was present.

23 He sayeth that the Centuryes alledge a place of Ambrose, out of his booke De dignitate sacerdotali, to proue that the of­fice of an Archbyshope was nor then come into the Churche: whiche is vntrue, for the Centuries alledge no suche place [...]ut of Ambrose for any suche purpose. pag 337.

23 Because the place in the Centuryes is not quoted by T. C. I can saye lyttle to it, but that I thinke he is not so im­pudent, as master doctor woulde make hym, to alledge that whiche is no where wrytten For it is lyke inoughe that the Centuryators, althoughe they shewe in the fourth Centurye, that there were Archbyshopes in S. Ambrose his tyme, and shewe also howe muche they dyffered from the Archby­shopes that followed in the Popishe tymes: yet in some other place, they might alleadge the auctoritie of Ambrose out of his booke de dignitate sacerdotali, to proue that in his tyme the degree of an Archbyshope, was not distinct from the degree of a Byshope in dignitie, but onlye for order sake, because he there deuideth the Clergye into no more degrees, then these three, Byshopes, Elders, and Deacons.

[Page 40]24 He sayeth, that Ierome and Augustine speaketh of Arch­deacons in those places, where they only speake of Deacons pag 346.

24 Vndoubtedlie Ierome speaketh of an Archdeacon in the place quoted by T.C that is in his Epistle to [...]uagrius. Wher fyrst he fyndeth greate faulte that any Deacon should be preferred befor the Elders or Priests, which by the Scri­ptures he proueth to be equale to the Byshopes, and after­ward sheweth howe the Byshope came to be preferred, namlye by consent of the reste of the Elders, for auoydinge contention, as yf the Armye chuse a Capitayne, or the Dea­cons chuse one amonge them selues whom they knowe to be a diligent man, and call hym Archdeacon. So that by Ieroms iudgment the Archdeacon was preferred aboue the Deacons, but not thereby pre [...]erred before Elders. So the falsifycation of Ierome is not to be aduouched. The lyke maye be sayde of Augustine for seinge the Archdeacon in those tymes, was but the cheife Deacon, and so but a Dea­con, whatsoeuer was spoken against the presumptions of the inferior deacons ouer the Elders maye be also sayde of the Archdeacons or cheife deacons. I thinke master Whytgifte (howsoeuer he woulde seme to walke vnder a cloude in this matter) yet he will not saye for shame that the Arch­deacons in sainte Ieroms and sainte Augustines dayes, had auctoritie ouer the Elders and mynisters as they haue nowe, whiche is the thinge in question, and whiche T.C. denyeth.

25 The words of Socrates are falsefyed pag 350.

25 The wordes of Socrates be not falsefyed for they be not alledged nor translated, but his meaninge is faythfully and truely rendered, ‘(that the Byshops of Rome and Ale­xandria, leauinge the sacred function were degenerated into a seculer rule or dominion,)’ which master doctor tran­slateth: that they were passed the limites of priesthode to an outward dominion. What difference is here in the sene. If T. C. take [...]pon hym to translate out of Greeke into Latine or Englyshe, by all lykelyhod he well do it as well as master doctor can doe. It is happy, he can not saye but that the sence is all one thoughe the wordes be not the same. And yet there is no great difference betwene passing and degene­ratinge, the limites of priesthode and the holy [...]unction, se­culer dominion and outward dominion.

26 He vntruely reporteth the words of Cypriane. pag 257.

[Page 41]26 He reporteth no wordes of Cypriane, but onlye affyr­meth a truthe out of Cypriane, that, 90 byshopes of one pro­uince condemned Priuatus an hereticke. master doctor qua­releth at the name of prouince wherbye T. C. meaneth that t [...]ac [...] of the countrye whiche was neare about the Cittie, where these byshops dyd meete. For yf the diocesses had been so large, as commonlie the diocesses of byshopes are nowe, so manye coulde not so often meete in councell, as it is manifest in deede, by that epistle of Cyprian▪ with master doctor citeth lib 1. Epist 3. and manye other: that 40.39.66. byshopes mette in councell, commonly euerye yeare, and peraduenture more then one in the yeare, whiche coulde not be, yf they had dwelled so farre a sounder as byshopes do nowe. As for that he alledgeth out of Masseus of the pa­triarche of Antioche, to proue the lardgnes of one prouince is to little purpose, for there were but fower Patriarches in the worlde, vnder the byshope of Rome, as appeareth in the councell of Laterane, therefore euery one of them muste haue a great manye prouinces vnder hym. Besids that he ex­presseth not, what tyme ther wer so manye byshops subiect▪ to hym, sauing that he semeth to saye, that they are nowe and T C. speaketh of Cyprians tymes, thirten hundreth yeare agoe.

27 He falsefye [...]h the meaninge of Tertullian, alludinge that to ceremonies, that Tertullian meanethe of faythe, and of salua­tion. pag. 370.

27 I neuer knewe a man of suche learninge, so farre to o­uershoote hym self, as master Whytgifte dothe in this place. For he alledgeth a woorke of Tertulliane to proue that his rule as to be vnderstande onlye of matters of faythe, and not of ceremonies or matters of discipline, where he spea­keth onlye and manifestlye of a ceremonie, and a matter of discipline, namelye the coueringe of Virgins in the congre­gation, accordinge to the doctrine of sainte Paule. For w­hereas the contrarie custome was crept into the Churche of Carthage, that Virgins came barre headded into the con­gregation, and had longe continued, he declareth, that Christ and the truthe is moste auncient, and before all customes, and therefore that to be followed, whiche was fyrste, in this matter. And whereas master doctor woulde gather a difference out of Tertulliane, of matter of fayth and matter of discipline. he is muche deceiued For Tertulliane w­rytinge of them, that helde one true sayth whiche is im­mutable, and erred in this matter of discipline, sheweth that althoughe they retayned the rules of fayth vnchaun­geable, [Page 42] yet discipline also▪ yf it were corrupted by euill cu­stome, muste be reformed accordinge to the worde of God. And this is the true meaning of his words, which are alled­ged by master Wgytgifte ‘(this lawe of fayth remaining, other things of discipline and conuersation admitt newnes of correction, the grace of God woorkinge and goinge forwarde euen to the ende.)’ He sayeth not, that they maye be chaunged newely euery daye, but t [...]at they maye be newely corrected, yf they be growen into abuse, and re­formed accordinge to the Scriptures Now lett master doc­tor take h [...]de, that he falsefyeth not the meaninge of Ter­tullian, whiche interpreteth his meaninge cleane contrarie to the scope of his whole booke.

28 He kepeth backe the woords of Theodoret that explane his meaninge. pag 412.

28 The wordes here spoken of in the Censure, are after­ward in the probation pag 413. sayed to be one woorde Tavten This Well put Tavten to that whiche T. C. sayeth, and what is the matter mended? Theodoret sayeth that Chrysostom had the same care of the churche of Thracia Asya and Pontus, that he had of the churche of Constanti­nople, erge he had the same rule and auctoritie. What lod­gike is this? But Theodoret sayeth in plaine woordes, ‘(he gouerned the Churches in Pontus, with those lawes.)’ M. D confesseth the Greeke to be katekosmei tois nomois, that is, he garnished or bewtefyed with lawes But dothe he falsefye Theodoret because he leaueth out Tavtois there? Suerlye there is asmuche subtiltie in leauinge out the other, and greater preiudice, in translatinge katekosmei, he gouerned, then in [...]matting Tavtois these Yet you will saye, yt can not be auoyded, but that he had auctoritye in that Churche, whiche he garnished with lawes. I will not dis­cusse what auctoritie he had, but I thinke this garnishinge with lawes▪ maye be expounded by that promeitheian, or prospection, whiche he speaketh of before, and that the one dothe open the other. That is, that he procured throughe that credit whiche he had with the Emperour, that suche Ecclesiasticall lawes shoulde be established in other Churches, as he sawe to be profytable in his owne, hauinge a speciall chardge of his owne flock, and a generall care of all Churches.

29 An vntruthe concerninge Ire [...]aeus, aucu [...]he [...] out of the fyfth booke of Eusebius cap 3 a [...]d 4 pag. [...]adem.

[Page 43]29 The vntruthe supposed, is that T.C. affyrmeth, that Ire­naeus was sent of the frenche Churches into Phrygia. M D. sayth he was sente onlye to Rome, and not into Phrygia. But it is straunge to see, that such a diligent reader of Aun­cient wryters, as master Whytgifte woulde be thought to be, by carpinge of others, shoulde so muche forget hym self. For euen in the place of Eusebius quoted by T C. it is ma­nifest, that the longe Epistle, wrytten by the Churches of Vienna and Lions, was sente not onlye to Eleutherius the byshope of Rome, but principally to the churches of Asya and Phrygia, and a speciall cause alledged, because that Montanus dyd then spred his heresye. Nowe seing master doctor confesseth, that Irenaeus carryed the letter to Rome, what should leade hym to thinke, that he carryed it not furder into Asya and Phrygia?

30 He peruerteth the woordes of the Greeke scholiaste. pag. 413.

30 M doctor shoulde better haue reproued this peruer­tinge, yf he had alledged the woordes of the Greeke scho­liast in greeke. But lett the woordes be as he translateth, [...]gulas ciuitates suum habere pactorem, that euery cittie should haue hir owne pastor, then followeth it of necessitie (whiche T C. sayeth) that euery pastor should haue his owne citty for his chardge. What peruertinge is this Euery wyfe muste haue hir owne husbande, therefore euery hus­bande muste haue his owne wyfe. For yf it be once graun­ted▪ that euery flocke muste haue ther owne pastor, it muste needes followe, that euery pastor muste haue his owne flocke. For there maye be a flocke without a shepherd, but ther can be no shepherd without a flocke.

31 He auouched aea vntruthe of Theodoret. pag. 415.

31 T C. sayeth, ‘(that the emperours Theodosius and Va­lentinianus wrytt vnto Dioscorus byshope of Alexandria, that they had commaunded Theodoret byshope of Cyrus, that he should kepe hym selfe vnto his owne Churche onlye: wherebye it appeareth, that he medled in more Churches then was me [...]re he should.)’ Master Whytgifte sayeth, this is an vntruthe, and a foule ouersight, and that he hath delt very corruptly in this matter. For the Emperours meaninge was nothinge ells, but that Theodoret shoud kepe hym selfe at home, and not come to the Synode, excepte the whole Synode woulde admitt hym You shall heare the very wordes of the Epistle, whereby you maye iudge what there meaninge was, and what corruption is vsed by T. C. in this [Page 44] matter. ‘(Sacerdotalem enim conuentum, non nisi quis ma [...] propria conscientia sauciatus eu [...]at. Theodoretum san [...] Episcopum Cyri ciuitatis, quem pridem [...]ussimus suae soli vacare Ecclesiae, sancimus non prius ad sanctam Synodum conuenire, nisi vniuerso sancto placuerit conuenienti conci­lio, & ipsum concurrere & pariter interesse.)’ For none wil auoyde the assemblie of Priestes, except he be wounded with his owne euill conscience. In deede Theodoret the byshope of the citty Cyrus, whome before this tyme we haue commaunded to attend vpon his owne Churche onlye, we decree that he come not to the holy Synode, except it shall please all the whole holy councell, that is assembled, that he shall be compted one of them, and be present with them. Here you see that Theodoret is not only forbydden to come to the councell at suche tyme as it was sommoned, but also commaunded to attend wpon his owne Churche onlye before that tyme▪ whereby a reasonable man maye gather reasonably, that he medled with more Churches the [...] his owne, before he was commaunded there contrarie.

32 He vttereth a verye vncharitable vntruthe, of the worthy man M. Iewell byshope of Sarisburye. pag. 422.

32 If that which T.C. teacheth be the doctrine of the Gos­pell, as he is perswaded, then the B. was to blame, to call it wantonnes. And when M. Whytgifte hath proued that it is not the doctrin of the Gospell he maye compt it wantonnes also. But vntill this controuersye be decided, the matter of vntruthe is in suspence.

33 He sayeth, that in the councell of Antioche, it appeareth that the byshope of the Metropolitane seate called Synodes, and propounded the matters, whiche were to be handled, and that it was his office to see, that the byshopes kepte them selues within there owne Diocesse: and he quoteth the 9. Canon where no suche thinge is to be founde. pag 435.

33 It is true that T. C. sayeth of the councell of Antioche▪ and appeareth in diuers Canons, althoughe the quotation be vntrue, which is lyke to be sett out of place, by the printer, because that sone after it should come in, wher it is sayd▪ that the 34 Canon falsly called of the Apostells, is bor­rowed of the councell of Antioche, whiche is in deede the 9 Canon. As for this that T. C. sayeth the Metropolitane dyd call Synodes appeareth in the 14, Canon, and dyd see that byshopes should kepe them within there owne diocesse in the 13. Canon. The same maye be gathered also by other [Page 45] Canons of that councell, and master doctor confesseth that these thinges pertaine to the Metropolitane office, there­fore it is a poore spyte, that he vttereth against the quota­tions in the margent.

34 He h [...]the add [...]th and detracteth from the 34. Canon attri­buted to the Apostells. pag 439.

34 The wordes of the Canon be not recited, and I can not perceiue any addinge or detractinge from the meaninge. The wordes of the Canon be, ‘(The byshopes of euery nation ought to know who is chiefe amonge them: whom lett them esteme as there heade, and do nothinge without his knowledge, beside those thinges only, that pertaine to euery mans owne Parishe. And the townes that are vnder it nether lett hym do anye thinge in ther Parishes, without the knowledge of them all.)’ Of this Canon. T. C. gathe­reth, that the Metropolitane in auncyent tyme, might doe nothinge in other byshopes Parishes without the consent of all the byshopes of his prouince, and that euery byshope might doe that whiche appertaineth to his owne parishe, without the Metropolitane, and he nothinge to doe with hym in it. These laste wordes ‘(And he nothinge to do with hym in it,)’ are sayd to be added to the Canon. The detraction is layde to be of these wordes, ‘(And the places subiect to it,)’ so that where as T. C. sayd that euery by­shope might do that whiche appertained to his owne pa­rishe, he should haue added, ‘(and the places subiect to it.)’ I muste confesse, I can not vnderstand suche insensible col­lections. Iudge you whether the meaninge be chaunged or no.

35 The 17. Canon of the councell of Antioche is vntruely alled­ged. pag 440.

35 A greate vntruthe. The printer in the margent hath sett Canon 17. where he shoulde haue sett Canon 14. But master Whytgifte sayth there is no mention of equalitie in voyces, but only of disagreinge in iudgement amonge the byshopes in that 14. Canon But yet that equalitie of voyces, muste be intended, in case where a byshope standeth to be iudged, For yf the greater parte dyd ether absolue hym or con­dempne hym, there were no neede to call byshopes out of an other prouince to iudge hym.

36 He should saye an Epistle of pope Zacharye to Boniface, and he sayeth an Epistle of Zacharye to pope Boniface, In th [...] [Page 46] which Epistle he sayth that this cause s [...]il. least they should waxe vyle throughe the multitude, it alledged why there should not be a byshope in euery village or little citty, which is vntrue: for ther is no suche cause alleadged there. pag 443.

36 Here againe T. C. muste abye for the printers faulte, which master doctor might haue seene in the margent, when it is called an Epistle o [...] pope Zacharye to Boniface, and yet there is an erratura in the margent, for [...] it quoteth To. 3. in stead of To. 2. O matters worthye of master doctor Whytgiftes Censure. But now is the epistle falsefyed, the wordes whereof be as (master doctor sayth) For you muste remember what we are commaunded by the olde Canons to obserue, that we ought not to ordaine byshopes in villages and small cities, least the name of a byshope should waxe vile T. C. reporteth that it is wrytten in that Epistle, ‘(that it hath been oftentymes decreed, that there should not be a byshope appoynted in euery village or little citty, least they should waxe vile throughe the multitude, whereby it bothe appeareth, that there was wont to be a byshope in euery parishe, and vpon how corrupt and euill considera­tion one byshope was sett ouer a whole diocesse)’ First master doctor accuseth hym (as he dothe often) for falsly alledging the woordes, when he doth not pretend to reherse the wordes but the meaninge. Secondly he asketh how he gathereth that there was wonte to be a byshope placed in euery parishe? belyke of this, that the Canons whereof the Pope speaketh, were made to forbyd that whiche was wonte to be doun, and not that whiche neuer came in any mans heade to doe: and further because it was not one Canon, that so decreed but manye But who false­fyeth the Popes Epistle? When master doctor translateth Menunerimus you muste remember, & in sacris Canonibus by the oulde Canons. It is a good h [...]rse that neuer stom­bled. And somtyme Homer hym selfe taketh [...] nappe. Suerly these translations are as f [...]rre from the words of the Epistle as the reporte of T. C: leste they should waxe vile throughe the multitude: from these woordes of the Epistle, leste the name of a byshope shoulde waxe vile. But multitude is not named, true, but yet multitude is employed, for yf euery vil­lage or little cittie had a byshope, there should be a great multitude more then are, and multitude also maketh thinges contemned.

37 He alledgeth the fyfth Canon concilii Tyronns. for that that can not be found in it. pag. 446.

[Page 47]37 Howsoeuer the quotation in the margent be vntrue▪ master doctor can not denye, but that Councells haue de­creed against the immoderate feastinge of byshopes, which is the matter of the text, and therefore this faulte is scarse woorth the fynding. Master doctor hym selfe hath alledged a woorke of Basills suche as neuer none was, &c.

38 He sayth▪ that another Councell (quotinge the councell of Af­frike) decreed that the Christians, shoulde not celebrate feastes on the byrth dayes of Martyrs, because it was the maner of the heathen: whiche is a ma [...]fest vntrueth, for there is no suche de­cree in that Councell. 479.

38 There is a decre whiche master doctor hym selfe re­porteth pag 479. ‘(This is also to be desired (of the Em­perours) that suche feastes as contrary to the commaun­dement of God are kepte in many places, whiche haue been drawen from the error of the Gentills (so that now Christians are compelled by the Paganns, to celebrate them, whereby another persecution in the tyme of Chri­stiane Emperours semeth couertly to be raysed) might be by there commaundement forbidden, &c especially seinge they ate not afrayd to committ such things in some citties▪ euen vpon the byrthe dayes of blessed Martyrs, and in the holy place.)’ Now who but master Whytgifte woulde saye, that Christians are not forbydden by this Canon to ce­lebrate feastes one the byrth dayes of Martyrs, after the maner of the heathen. He will saye the Pagans are for­bydden. True, but not onlye the Pagans. He will say all tymes they are forbydden. True, but especially on the byrth dayes of Martyrs. He will adde, that for other causes they are forbydden, and not only because the heathen vsed them▪ I graunte, but yet for that cause also, because they were drawen from the error of the Gentills. So that here is no vntruth▪ aduouched by T. C. for he sayth not, that only the Christians, were forbydden to holde those feastes only on▪ byrth dayes of Martyrs, and only because it was the manner of the heathen, but his wordes are as they are reported in the Censure. ‘(That Christians should not celebrate feastes one the byrth dayes of Martyrs, because it was the manner of the heathen.’

39 He sayth, That Tertullian woulde not haue the Christian [...] to syt after they had prayed, because the idolaters dyd so: and he quoteth his booke De anima. where there is no suche thinge wrytten. pag. [...]adem.

[Page 48]39 The place is confessed by master Whytgifte to be in the booke of Tertullian de Oratione, and therefore it muste nedes be the error of the copyer or prynter. But whereas M. doctor pag. 480. will not seme to acknowledge that cause, whiche T C doth alledge, you shall vnderstande, that the wordes of Tertullian be these ‘(Potro cum perinde fa­ciant nationes adotatis sigillaribus suis residendo, vel pro­pterea in nobis reprehendi meretur quod [...]pud idola cele­bratur.)’ But whereas the Gentils do euen the same in syttinge downe after they haue worshipped there puppetts euen therefore this custome deserueth to be reprehended in vs because it is vsed before the idolls.

40 He fathereth an vntrueth of Augustine touchinge bapti­zinge by women, or in priuate howses. pag 522.

40 He fathereth no vntruthe vpon Augustine. Only he sayeth that Augustine doth not allowe ether of baptisme in priuate howses or by women, but when there was daunger the women hasted to carry the children to the Churche which it is lyke they would not haue doen if women might haue baptized, and in priuate howses. Now commeth master Whytgifte and asketh where sainte Augustine doth disal­lowe it? But yf he will proue T. C. a falsefyer, he muste shewe where Augustine doth allowe it T. C. doth not say that Augustine doth dissallow it, but that he doth not al­lowe of it.

41 He alleageth M Beza in his annotations, for that whiche can not be founde in them. pag 584.

41 Though master Whytgifte nor none of his searcher [...] can fynde it yet I am perswaded, that it is not forged by T. C. there be diuerse editions of that woorke perhaps master doctor hath not throughly sought them all, and the place it not materiall, for this is Beza his iudgment that a Deacon [...] should nether preache nor baptize, but only prouide for the poore.

42 He sayeth▪ that yf we will take the nature of the Sacra­ment so straightlye [...] Augucti [...]e d [...]th, and that there be no Sa­cramentes, but when as to the element there commeth the word [...] thē circuncision can be [...]o Sacrament, whiche is a grosse vntruth for in circuncision ther is both the worde, & the element pag 618

42 Master doctor sayth the foreskinn is the element, it maye be aunswered that is vnaptly compared, with water [Page 49] [...]reade and wyne, for they are gyuen, and the foreskynn is taken awaye. But it is nether to nor fro, for the worde of God added to an externall signe, whether it be an element or no, maketh a Sacrament, except Augustine by an element in that place vnderstand an outward sygne.

43 He sayth that the Eldership was moste florishinge in Con­stantines tyme but he noteth no place, where we maye fynde his sayinge to be true. pag 651.

43 He noteth no place where his sayinge maye be founde true therefore this is the thre, and fourteth vntruthe or fal­syfication: a sounde argument and meete for a doctor to vse.

44 He is greatly deceyued about the excommunicatinge of A­pollina [...]ie, and sheweth manifest tokens that ether he hath not hym self read the storye, or that he hath read it very negligentlye as it is playnly declared in the defence. pag 669.

44 He is no more deceiued then master Whytgifte in the same place mistakinge Theodoretus for Theodotus. For althoughe he mistake the circunstaunce of tyme concerning the excommunication of Apollinaris yet those phrases whiche he alleageth out of that chapter serue to proue that althoughe the byshope alone dyd pronounce the sentence of excommunication yet it was not decreed against any man by one byshopes only auctoritie as is moste manifeste to them that knowe the hystorie of that tyme, althoughe it be often sayd that suche a byshope dyd excommunicate, which is none otherwyse to be vnderstande, then these sayinges the Emperoure or the Prince hath made a lawe, whiche n [...]uer­theles is made by the Senate or Parliament, of which the Emperour or Prince is chiefe.

45 He falsefyeth Ambrose, pag. 670.

45 If T.C haue not rightlye collected out of Ambrose▪ that which maketh for his purpose yet he can not be iustlye accused to haue falsefyed Ambrose, there is great diffe­rence betwen a falsyfication and a wronge collection. But letting master Whytgifte haue his vncharitable termes, I see not but that T C doth gather as probably out of Ambrose, that he dyd not alone of his o [...]ne auctorytie excommuni­cate the Emperour Theodosius and more probably too, then mast [...]r Whytgifte dothe affirme that he dyd it alone, be­cause all the prayse is geuen to hym by Theodoret and So­ [...]omene. For yf a Synode were gathered about that matter, [Page 50] as T. C sheweth out of Ambrose, it is not lyke that it was onlye to lament and take the matter in euell parte (as master doctor sayth) but rather to consult hereof, and by whom discipline shold be exercised towarde the Emperour to bring hym to repentaunce, and to take away the offence and the same maye be gathered also out of those wordes of Ambrose, for any thinge that master Whytgifte proueth to the contrarye. (Non erat facti tui absolutio in Ambrosii Communione) The absolution of thy fact was not in the communicatinge with Ambrose. Moreouer the practise of that tyme, fauoreth the collection of T. C for at that tyme and longe after, excommunications were decreed by Sy­nodes.

46 He alleadgeth a place of Tertullian very deceiptfullye. pag 673.

46 After Tertullian hath shewed the maner of the Con­gregations in prayer and preachinge he commeth thirdly to declare what is there discipline in these words. In the same congregation are vsed exhortations, reprehensions, and the diuine Censure. For iudgement is executed with great waighte, as amonge them that are suer they be in the syght of God And it is the greatest conclusyon of the last iudge­ment that shalbe, yf a man haue so offended that he is ba­nished from the communication of prayer, and of the assem­blies, and of all holy affayres. Approued seniors doe gouern (this action) which haue obteined this honor not by monye but by good report. T. C. sayth, ‘(If there be any that hath committed such a faulte that he is to be put awaye from the partakinge of the prayers of the Churche, and from all holye matters. There do beare rule, or be presydents cer­taine of the moste approued Auncients or Elders whiche haue obteined this honor not by monye, but by good re­porte.)’ What deceyte is here? Forsoothe Tertullian maketh a full poynte of these wordes ‘(all holy affaires)’ & beginning a new sentence, sayth ‘(approued seniors, &c.)’ T C. hath ioyned these into one sentence O craftye conue­ [...]nce, it is pitty that he lyueth. But shall I be playne with you? yf euer any man dyd goe aboute to peruerte a wryters meaninge, master Whytgifte dothe so here. When he sayth th [...] it can not be gathered of these wordes that these se­niors dyd excommunicate. I had as leise he tould me the so [...]ne doth not shyne when it is noone tyde. But what nede-furder proffe when he hym selfe geueth it ouer afterward, and sayth he will not denye, but that they had to doe in ex­communication. Then why doth he quarell before, and [Page 51] chardg T.C. with vntruthe for saying that which he hym selfe will not denye.

47 He sayeth, that Augustine in his bookes De bapt. contra Donatistas, sheweth that yf the moste of the people be infected with the faul [...]e with is to be punished, that [...] no excommuni­cation ought to be attempted, for because a suffycient nomber of voyces will not be obteined for the excommunication▪ whe [...]as these wordes. For because a suffycient nomber of voyces, &c. are not to be founde in these bookes of Augustine. pag. 675.

47 Master doctor is allwayes harpinge vpon the wordes when T C. standeth only vpon the matter, and reporteth not the wordes. For althoughe be can not fynde those wordes yet he hath not shewed the contrary out of those bookes, but that sainte Augustine is of that iudgement which. T C. reporteth hym to be.

48 He maketh a [...] vntrue reporte of the 10. Canon of the coun­cell of Antioche. pag. 682.

48 This is a verye false Censure concerninge the 10. Canon of the councell of Antioche as euery man that readeth that Canon will confesse, and master doctor hym selfe also yf it please hym to reade it ouer once againe. But pag 682 is shewed that he dyd mistake the 13. Canon of the Ancyrane councell for the 13 Canon of the councell of Neocesariense, whiche error he might easely fall into, because it is both one nomber of the Canon, and both the counceles were helde neare about one tyme, and no greater error then master do­ctor falleth into euen in the same place whyle he accuseth hym to haue erred in reporting the councell of Antioche where he should haue sayd the Ancyrane councell.

49 He alleadgeth that for making Ecclesiasticall lawes and ceremonies, whiche is [...] of buyldinge and repayringe of Churches▪ [...]ut of Eusebius lib. 2. De vita Constantini. Epist. ad Eusebium. pag [...]98.

49 T C. alleadgeth other auctoryties then that of Eusebius as Sozomene and the councells for prooffe of that he wry [...] ­teth, and therefore master doctor doth hym wronge [...] presse hym with that only place. And yet perhapes the Greeke wordes maye be taken otherwyse then they [...] commonly translated. But whether they maye or no, there be wordes playne inough [...] ▪ to shewe that Churches were then gouerned by byshopes, Elders, and Deacons, whiche beinge a [Page 52] parte of T.C. assertion peraduenture is as much as he would haue proued out of that Epistle, and the rest to be confyr­med by the other auctoryties afterward cyted Therefore I can perceyue no suche grosse ouersyght as is supposed.

50 He affyrmeth that this practise continewed still in the Churchs of God, scil. that nothinge was brought into the Churche to be reade, besides the wordes of God, whereas the contrarie is manifestly proued of the same tyme, whereof he meaneth. pag. 718.

50 He affyrmeth that this practise continewed from the Apostles tyme vntill the tyme of Iustinus Martyr, as it ap­peareth by his apollogie, where Iustinus purposynge to make open to the Emperour, whatsoeuer was donne in the congregation of the Christians (for so muche as they were shamefully slaundered concerninge there assemblyes) de­clareth, that they dyd reade the monumente of the Prophets and Apostells, whereby T. C. gathereth that they dyd reade nothinge ells whiche is not an argument ab autoritate ne­gatiue, yf you consyder the purpose of Iustinus to purge the Christians which he dyd not sufficiently, yf there were any thinge ells sayd or donn amonge them, then that he vttereth. As for that which master doctor alleadgeth out of Eusebius of Dionysius wryting to So [...]er, was after the tyme of Iustinus Martyr, and therefore no reproffe of T. C. affyrmation. For Iustinus was in the dayes of Antoninus pius and Soter was byshope of Rome▪ in the tyme of Lucius Commodus the sonne of Marcus Aurelius whiche raigned eightene yeares after Antoninus.

51 He sayth that saint Iohn in the Apocalyps reprehending the mynisters of di [...]res Churchs, dyd not put to his name vnto his booke, which is a manifest vntruthe, for he addeth his name both in the beginning and in the ende; thrise in the first chapter and once in the laste. pag. 806.

51 T.C. I trow is not ignoraunt of that, therefore I think [...]e he meaneth not of his name Iohn, but of his addition or sur­name whereby it might be knowen which Iohn it was, for [...]her were diuers at that tyme, and learned men do not a [...]ree which Iohn it was.

As for the resydewe of vntruethes and falsyficatio [...] that are not nombered you maye well thinke they be suche as these. In which I haue satisfyed your request to shewe you [...]yne opinion and symple iudgement, leauinge the cause in [Page 53] controuersye betwene them as I founde it. I pray God it maye be ended to his glorye There be godly men and lear­ned on both sydes I wyshe. they might all agree in the truthe: in the meane tyme I woulde haue malice and vn­syncere dealinge hated on both partes.