A Conference about Re­ligion, betweene Doctour White and me, was occasion that your Maiestie called mee to your Gratious presence, not disdaining to dispute with one so meane and vnworthie B as my selfe, imitating his be­nignitie whose Vicegerent you are, and according to the phrase of holy Scripture, his An­gell. 2. Reg. 14.17. Si­cut Angelus Dei sic est Dominus meus Rex. And as it is the propertie of the good Angell, first to strike feare and terrour into them to whom hee appeares, but in the end, to leaue them full of comfort: In like sort, your Maiestie: For though the first salutation carried a shew of seueritie, yet your dismissing me, was benigne and C gratious, not onely pardoning my earnestnesse, in defending the part of the Catholike Church, but also saying, You liked me the better.

ANSVVER. A

MIrum est, si in facie ho­minis, tantum interuallum inter fron­tem & linguam, vt frons non com­primat linguam: It is strange (saith S ^t. Augustine Aug. c. Iulian. Pelag l. 1. c. 5. that there should be such a great distance betweene the front of a man, and his mouth, that the shame of his forehead B should not represse the impuden­cie of his tongue. It is vntrue, that his Royall Maiestie, at the Cloase of the Conference, (whereof you speake) gaue you any ap­plause, or the least occasion to coniecture, That hee was taken with any passage of your Disputation. For you propounded nothing, to demonstrate your owne Tenet, or to confute ours, worthie of the great Presence to which you were admitted. But you kept your selfe within your Trenches, and sometimes you were driuen to dissemble your owne Tenet, other-while C (according to the Romish manner) by wyre-drawne distin­ctions and euasions, to elude the waight of his Maiesties Argu­ments, making good the saying of Maxentius, Mens contentioni Ap. Bign. in Bi­blioth. to. 4. Indulgens, & non sanari, sed vincere cupiens, auersa ab eis quae rectè dicuntur, tantum intenta est in hoc, vt inueniat quod pro partibus suis loquatur: A contentious mind, desirous of victorie, and not wil­ling to be reformed, but auerse from right sayings, only deuiseth how to elude Truth, and to speake for his owne part. And as for those words of his royal Maiestie ( I like you the better) they were vttered vpon this occasion: When the Iesuit being pressed about D the point of Temporall authoritie, &c. did at the first seeke eua­sions, in the end kneeling downe, he said, I will deale plainly with your Maiestie; vpon this, the King said, I like you the better: wherin hee was so farre, from gracing his whole Disputation, that not long after, his Maiestie told him, He neuer heard a verier, &c.

IESVIT.

The gratefull acknowledgement and admiration of this your Princely clemencie, makes me desire (from the bot­tome E of my soule) that I could fully satisfie your Maie­stie of my dutifull and loyall affection, which is fast tied vnto your sacred person, by a threefold inuiolable bond. Funiculus triplex difficilè rumpitur Ecclesiast. ca. 4. 12. The Law of Nature obligeth me thereunto, as being your [Page] Maiesties borne subiect, the transgression whereof, were A [...], barbarous, inbumane. The Law of God re­quires the like constant and perfect allegiance at my bands, binding mee to regard you, as his Lieutenant, and to ac­knowledge your power and authoritie, as his Ordination. Rom. 13. 1. So that according to the Doctrine of the Catholicke Church, I must not onely out wardly observe, but also admit your Maiesties will and command with reuerence, into the se­cret closet of my inmost conscience and soule. The Consti­tutions B also of the Order, whereof J am an vn worthie Rom. 13. 5. member, doe strictly command me the same, in seuerest manner charging the subiects thereof, no wayes to meddle in State matters, or in Princes affaires: much lesse vnder pretence of Religion, to attempt any thing, or to consent vnto any enterprise, that may disturbe the quiet and tran­quilitie of Kings and Kingdomes. And seeing wee are so deuoted to our owne Jnstitute, that our Aduersaries there­upon C (amongst many other calummiations) lay to our charge, That we more reuerently esteeme, and carefully ob­serue the Constitutions of our Rule, than the Law of God; I shall for your Maiesties fuller satisfaction set downe some Colloquiū de se­cretis Iesuitarum. part of our Constitutions in this point, in maner following.

Vt ab omni specie mali abstineatur, & querelis Decretum 101. Cong. Sanctae ge­neral. & Con. 12. eiusdem & in mo­nitis generalibus, §. 18. etiam ex falsis suspitionibus prouenientibus, quoad fieri poterit occurratur, praecipitur nostris omnibus D in virtute Sanctae obedientiae, & sub poenae inhabi­litatis ad quaeuis officia & dignitates seu praelationes, vocisque tam actiuae quam passiuae priuationis, ne quispiam publicis & secularibus Principum negotijs quae ad rationem status vt vocant pertinent, vlla ra­tione se immiscere, nec etiam quantumuis requisitus & rogatus eiusmodi res politicas tractandi curam sus­cipere Decret. 57. & Can. audeat aut praesumat. Illa autem omnia, quae à spirituali instructione diuersa sunt, negotia status E censeri debeat, qualia sunt quae ad Principum inter se foedera, vel ad regnorum iura, & successiones per­tinent, vel ad bella tam ciuilia, quam externa.

[Page] Iubet Regula 41. vt secularia negotia vtpote quae A In regulis com­munibus Reg, 41. sunt à nostro instituto aliena & vehementer à spiri­tualibus auocant, multum auersemur. Iubentur con­cionatores societatis a reprehensionibus Principum & Magnatum Reipublicae abstinere, & obedientiam In regulis concio­natorum. erga Principes & Magistratus frequenter & serio, suis in concionibus populo commendare.

Iubent constitutiones [...] vatijs in locis, vt o­remus In Constitutioni­bus. speciatim pro Principibus, eorumque spiritua­li B salute praecipua cura procuranda ac promouenda inuigilemus, ob vniuersale bonum, quod ad multos alios, qui eorum authoritatem sequuntur, vel per cos reguntur proueniet.

Extat denique Instructio pro confessarijs Princi­pum, In Instructioni­bus. qua nostris serio interdicitur, ne occasione huius muneris, rebus politicis aut Reipublicae guber­nationi se immisceant: iubenter etiam hanc instru­ctionem C Principibus ostendere, curareque vt ij pla­ne intelligant quid societas ab eo postulet, quem confessarium sibi eligunt, neque per leges nostras licere nobis alijs conditionibus id oneris suscipere.

J humbly craue pardon for offering so many particu­lars of our Rule vnto your Maiesties [...], which J should not haue done, but out of a most strong desire, to giue your Maiestie satisfaction against such wrongfull D aspersions, wherewith maleuolencie and suspition labou­reth to disgrace vs, and to make vs odious to them, whom (howsoeuer disaffected from vs) we must perpetually re­uerence and obey; of whom vnder God, [...] and the successe of our labours doth principally depend. And when I consider your Maiesties gracious disposition, and excel­lent maturitie and sharpenesse of iudgement, to penetrate assuredly into the depth of affaires, together with our in­nocencie, whereof our owne conscience is vnto vs in stead E of a thousand witnesses, and which (as we are persuaded) doth in the course of our actions and whole proceedings, appeare to any that shall vnpartially, and without pas­sion [Page] looke into them: I cannot despaire, but the Prayers A which for this intent, with teares and afflicted hearts wee daily poure foorth, will at last so much preuaile with the soueraigne Gouernour of the world, in whose hands are the Cor Regis in ma­nu Domini, [...]. ca. [...]. v. 1. hearts of Princes, that your Maiestie may conceiue some better opinion of your (without [...] so much calumnia­ted) [...], as to iudge of vs, according as our Consti­tutions frame vs, and our Actions deserue; not as it plea­seth disaffection to paint vs foorth. B

And as your Maiestie is a liuing Monument of that [...] paragon of France, Henry the fourth, and of his wise­dome and other Princely excellencies: So why may wee not entertaine afarre off, an hopefull thought, that your Maie­stie may one day bee better informed against so many male­uolent suggestions, and see that they proceed from another origin, than our desert: as that famous Prince did, there­upon restoring them, whom sinister information had bani­shed C out of his Kingdome; for which fact (saith the [...] reporteth Pe­trus Matthew, Historiographer of France. Historiographer of France) hee receiued thankes from all parts of the world, euen out of Peru, and Chochin, Iapon, Goa, and China, with presents of some singularities of the Countrey. I obserued (saith the same Authour) the plea­sure which he tooke in speaking of the same action, and what content hee receiued, when as a great Cardinall told him, That by this restoring, his Maiestie had gotten two thousand D learned pennes for his seruice, and perpetuall fame.

When as the Iesuits represented vnto him the Catalogue of Col­leagues, and the thankes of the three Prouinces of France, he vsed these words vnto them, which should serue as an Epigraph vpon all their houses: ‘Assurance follows confi­dence, I trust in you, assure your selues of me; with these Papers I receiue the hearts of all your company, and with the effects I will witnesse mine vnto you: I haue alwayes said, That they which feare and loue God well, cannot but E doe well, and are alwayes most faithfull to their Prince. We are now better informed, I did hold you to be otherwise than you are, and you haue found me to bee other than you [Page] held mee. I would it had beene sooner, but there is meanes A to recompence what is past. Loue me, and I will loue you.’

ANSWER.

Your Oratorie in this Preface is plausible Cyril. Chat. 4. [...], &c. Ireneus, li. 3. ca. 15. Suaso­rius & verisimilis est, exquirens [...] Error, sine fu­co autem, est [...]., and God grant you prooue as faithfull in deeds, as you are a wilie Humiliate in words. The three grounds of Loyaltie and Allegiance to our Soueraigne, related by your selfe; and his Princely Clemen­cie, which hath superabounded, euen towards his enemies, are bonds of Adamant, to tye euery honest heart, to a constant re­solution B of thankfulnesse and fidelitie. And although experi­ence hath raught that, which is the generall voyce of the world, Fides Iesuitica, fides punica, and their pretensions of loue to all those which are aduerse to them in Faith, (as his Sacred Maiestie is, and euer must bee) are but semblances, and perso­nations of Truth: yet high transcendent Charitie may some­times suggest Hope, that it is possible, euen for enemies, to be ouercome with goodnesse, Rom. 12.21. And therefore I will suspend odious presages and coniectures.

But it must also be obserued, that Iesuits are zealous propug­ners C of certaine dangerous Positions, most aduerse to the soue­raigne right of Princes, to wit, Of the absolute immunitie of the Clergie, from their Iurisdiction; The temporall dominion of Romane Popes, ouer absolute Kings and States; Papall power of dispensing with oathes, which may open a wide sea of mischiefe, and frustrate all pretended Rules and Constitu­tions of Orders, so as no securitie can thereby accrue to Prin­ces or temporall States, because the grand Lord Paramount may at his pleasure cancell and release them, or interprete them agreeably to the present occasion. Lastly, their perfidious Do­ctrine D of Equiuocation, and Mentall reseruation, playeth fast and loose, and iuggleth vnder board, nay aboue board, when­soeuer aduantage may be thereby made against vs.

But to view a little neerer the flourishes which the Iesuite makes to get entertainement. Whatsoeuer he pretendeth with his Protestations and Complements, of admitting his Maiesties commands, into the secret closet of his inmost brest: Yet in the very Allegations and Proofes, brought for his and his fellowes sin­ceritie, towards his Maiestie, hee layeth open that polt-foote, which he indeauoureth to hide; persuading in this manner: E

Touching the Maior, we haue learned out of your owne Schoole, how easie it is for you to euade. For State matters (according to your Tenet) In ordine ad Deum, and Ad bonum spi­rituale, become spirituall matters, and so may belong to the Ie­suits proper cognisance. Also, Princes affaires, when the Pope pleaseth to declare them no Princes; are not Princes affaires, but Papall and Ecclesiasticall affaires; and then the Iesuits, stati­sing, B are still in their owne Element.

Secondly, a man must be of strong faith to beleeue your Mi­nor to be Defide, or of morall certitude, if such constitutions be vnderstood as the words sound. At least he must be a stranger to the world, and haue liued an Anchoret, or Recluse in some Caue, who neuer heard of Campian, Parsons, Creswell, Garnet, Suares, Bellarmine, &c. Did F. Parsons obserue these constitutions of his Order, when he wrot his Dolman against his Maiesties ti­tle, &c? Did Creswell the same, when he published his Philopa­ter? C Or, Bellarmine, and Suares, when the one wrote his Apo­logie, and the other, his Contra sectam Anglicanam? Did Mari­ana and Garnet this, when the one instructeth how to cure State mischiefes, by applying a dispatching Antidote to the head; and when the other put his annointed finger into the Powder? Now, what further assurance haue we, That this fawning per­suader holdeth himselfe more bound than his fellowes, to such constitutions as he pretendeth, doe oblige the whole Or­der? But the truth is, the Iesuiticall constitutions are of two sorts: Either Open and diuulged precepts, blased ad faciendum D populum; [Mens bona, fama, fides, haec clarè, & vt audiat Hospes. Pers. Sat. 2.

Or else, priuate and secret instructions, to be put in vre as ad­uantage for promoting the Papacie and Catholike cause, shall be offered. These, as higher and more sacred Principles, ouer­rule the former: and so a Iesuit Breaking his rule, obserueth his rule. This distinction seemeth to be implyed in the very title E of instructions here set downe by the Iesuit, being in the mar­gent stiled, Monita generalia, prohibiting them to interrmed­dle with affaires, Quae adrationem status pertinent, there specify­ing, Principum foedera, regnorum iura & successiones. And besides, [Page] nay against these, Generalia monita, they may haue speciall coun­termanding A instructions, inabling them to thrust their sickle in­to the haruest of Kings: or at least, dispensing, pardoning, and accepting such seruices of theirs, if prosperously performed. Neither haue we heard that euer any of that brood was puni­shed by his Superiour, or by the Popes holy Fatherhood, for attempting in this kind, though without successe. In which case, the endeauours of their fierie zeale, are accounted accep­table sacrifice to the Roman deitie, as may appeare by the in­dulgence vsed towards such of that Order, as haue in England, B France, and other countries, either by seditious bookes distur­bed the successions of Kingdomes, or by traiterous proiects en­deauoured the shaking and subuerting of them.

Your other argument of persuasion, is, à posteriori, from an example of the Renowned French King, Henry the fourth, to whom you wish his Maiestie to bee a parrallell. Your refe­rence looketh this way:

Verily, either this Iesuit preuaricateth and pleadeth against his owne Order, or else he by mistake and forgetfulnesse in­farceth D here a rapsodie of some discourse, written in defence and praise of the French Iesuits before Aprill 1610, which euer since that time, hath beene out of date and cassated. An in­stance more vncouth and preposterous, in regard of the issue, he could not haue light vpon. This he saw well enough, when he presumed thus to write to his Maiestie, but he had his aime another way. And what though he paralogize in the seeming direct proposing of his argument, yet he hath his end in men­tioning an instance knowne to the world, Direfull and Tragicall. And so, That troope may hope to intrude by terror, if they cannot creepe E in by fauour. But alas, What poore flashes of proofe doth hee point at? That King bad thanks from the vttermost parts of the world, &c. a deepe deuise for Iesuits farre dispersed to write or procure letters grat ulatorie for the nesting of birds of their [Page] owne feather. I thinke if Iesuits might haue Colledges in Eng­land, A Their remote brethren would thanke vs more than we should doe them: ô, but if the Iesuits were admitted into our bosome, wee should haue (as that King had) presents sent of some Singularities, &c. Rare trinckets, no doubt, for which wee could not pay too deare, though wee sold our Religion and Libertie for them. But in the Example cited, that which sur­passeth, is, The Armie of learned Pennes, which by thousands will march vpon the Plaine of Paper Monuments, for extolling those which nurse vp that brood. But would to God these men did not write sometimes with blood: How they requited that Kings B loue, and what securitie hee enioyed by them, the dolefull Catastrophe shewed.

IESVIT.

No labours would wee spare, nor any indeauours o­mit, nor sticke to venter the losse of any thing deare vnto C vs (except the grace of God, and our eternall saluation) to purchase a small portion of that fauour your Maie­sties meanest Subiects enioy, that wee might in some sort cooperate to the felicitie of the Christian world, which (as wee are persuaded) doth on your Maiesties person singularly depend.

For God (rich in Mercie and Goodnesse) as hee hath made your Maiestie partaker of his Power and Au­thoritis, D in gouerning this inferiour world; so like­wise hee hath adorned you with many excellent gifts, as Wisedome, Learning, Authoritie with forraigne Prin­ces and Common-wealths, made you beloued of your Sub­iects, that on you are cast the eyes of all Christian Coun­treys, as on the Person whom the Prince of Peace hath beyond the rest, inabled to ioyne together againe the parts of Christendome, distracted one from another through E Contiouersies of Religion.

ANSWER. A

It is sufficient, that you haue libertie to deprecate his Gra­tious Maiestie to forget things past, against himselfe and the State, and to thanke his Princely clemencie for the benefit of his mercifull Gouernment, whereof you and others haue ta­sted beyond expectation. But in stead heereof, you discouer in your selues a restlesse minde, neuer to be satisfied, vntill that (like the Serpent) hauing once got in your head, you winde in B all your bodie. Surely, some euill Genius guideth you, other­wise you could not be so impudent, as to sollicite a most iudi­tious and resolute Prince, to be an Apostata from his Faith, and to expose his naturall and loyall Subiects, to the grosse errours and sharking rapine of Romish Harpies. And wherefore must his Maiestie condescend to these heauie conditions? for­sooth, to ioyne together againe, the parts of Christendome distracted, that is, in plaine English, vnder pretext of Reli­gion, to establish lewd Superstition and Roman Tyrannie Zabarel. d. Schism. Quidam summi Pontifices qui magis ad modum [...] Princepum quam Apostolorum Ecclesiam rexerunt, &c. C Math. Paris. Chron. pa. 507. Dicit Rex (Henricus 3) nec volo nec audeo, Domino Papae in aliquibus contradicere..

Libanius the Sophister, in antient time, vpon the like ground, sollicited Iulian the Emperour to Apostasie: but wee say with Saint Hilarie Hilar. c. Au­rent., Speciosum nomen est pacis, & pulchra est opi­nio vnitatis, &c. The name of Peace is specious, and the opi­nion of Vnitie carries a faire shew, but there is no Euangeli­call Peace without Christ (that is, without true Faith and Charitie in Christ.) Saint Augustine Aug. d. ver. Relig. cap. 45. saith, Habet & superbia D appetitum quendam vnitatis, &c. Euen pride it selfe hath a cer­taine desire of vnitie, that it might bee Omnipotent. If Peace bee iust and honest (saith Polybius Polyb. Hist. li. 4. pa. 300.) [...], It is a worthie possession, and most profitable; but if it bee dishonourable and base, [...], it is of all things most shamefull and pernitious.

IESVIT. E

If the requests of the pretended Reformers were such as the Roman Church might yeeld vnto them, without o­uerthrowing the very foundations of the vnitie of Faith: [Page] If in stead of Catholicke Principles mis-liked by them, A they did propose such other of their owne, as she might see some probabilitie, or almost possibilitie of assured con­tinued peace, likely to follow vpon her yeelding in some Points; feeling compassion (in regard of the wound of discord, bleeding in the heart of Christendome) would mooue her to the vttermost approach towards Prote­stants, that the Law of God can permit, though with some disparagement to her honour. B

ANSWER.

You should rather say, If the request of Protestants (a­mong whom the King of Great Britaine is most emment) were such, as that the Romane Prelates might yeeld vnto, with­out hazard of their vsurped Monarchie; If Protestants would consent to sond the holy Scriptures packing, and not reckon the same among Diuine Principles Bosius. d. sig. Eccles. lib. 16. cap. 10. Scriptura non refertur inter hu­iusmodi Princi­pia.; if they would purchase C remission of sinnes, by paying tribute into his Holinesse his Checker Papir. Mascon. d. Episc. vrbis. li, 5. in Bonifac. 8. Prestitit plenam omnium debito­rum remissionem, eis, qui limina A­postolorum inui­sissent. Quo an­no ingens concur­sus, &c. Ioh. vil­laneus se testem facit, auri & diuitiarum, quas Pontifex, populusque Rom. illo anno congescêre., and not seeke to obtaine the same by the merits of the Lambe of God; in a word, if they would permit the Ro­mane Nahash to plucke out their right eye, that their deuo­tion might be framed according to the rule of implicite Faith and blinde Obedience [...] vita Francifci Assis. cap. 6. Caeca obedientia vt quis sit sicut corpus sine anima quod requiescit vbi quis posuerit sine motu.: sensible feeling of her owne re­uiuing greatnesse and lucre, would mooue the Romane Mo­ther (being tender-hearted to them which present her with Red and White Math. Pans Chron. in Henrico 1. pa. 56. Scdis [...] quae nulli deesse consueuit dummodo albi aliquid vel rubei intercedat.) to approach towards Protestants, and to hugge them in her armes, as Apes doe their Whelpes, vn­till with ouer-much kindnesse shee crush out their breath. D

IESVIT.

But so it is, that those that defre her Reformation, bee so many for number, and for Opinions so diuided amongst themselues, that it is impossible shee should satis fie all. E Their Conditions of peace are, That she reforme her selfe, by forsaking definitions of generall Councells, Customes, [Page] Doctrines vniuersally receiued for many ages, time out of A minde confessedly, without any knowne beginning since the Apostles. In stead of these means (so potent to stay stag­gering consciences, and to keepe the Christian world in peace) they present her with the Scriptures vnderstood by priuate illumination (the source of discord, from which an Ocean of strife must needes flow.) These things consi­dered, your most Iuditious Maiestie cannot but see, that her yeelding would not compose debates alreadie begun, but B rather open a wide gap to innumerable new brawles, and bring them into Kingdomes, bitherto (with such dissention) vntoucht.

ANSWER.

The Assumption is manifest, by the repugnancie of Roman Doctrine, against the Faith of the holy Scriptures, and against the Doctrine of the Primatiue Church, which shall hereafter be prooued in euery point of Difference betweene Romists and vs. But as the Synagogue of the Iewes hated reformation, and persisteth in hardnesse of heart to this day, so likewise Baby­lon will not be healed, Ierem. 51.9.

The Iesuit deliuereth three reasons, why the Romane D Church cannot yeeld to reformation.

The first, is taken from the manifold diuisions of Protestants among themselues, &c. But this Argument (to say nothing of the leading part thereof) is inconsequent: for if Romists erre, then they ought to reforme, whosoeuer they are that admo­nish them and conuince them of errour. And when the an­tient Church abounded with Schismes and ruptures Euseb. vita. Constantin. lib. 2. cap. 6. Socrat. Hist. lib. 1. cap. 3. [...]. Hist. lib. 1. cap. 15. & lib. 6. cap. 25. Chrysoft. sup. 1. cap. Ep. ad Galath. Hanc ob causam deridiculo facti sumus, & Gentibus & Iudaeis, dum Ecclesia in mille partes scinditur., a meanes was vsed to restore vnitie, to wit, a common submission to free and lawfull Councells, congregated, not by Romane Popes, but E by Christian and religious Emperours Reade heereafter in [...] Booke, pa. 151. Zabaril. d. Scys. pa. 542. Olim Im­perator congregabat Concilium.: and these comman­ded points of Controuersie to bee decided, according to the [Page] rule of holy Scriptures Read. pa. 8. & pag. 37. (as I shall heereafter make manifest A in this Treatise) yea sometimes the doctrine of one sound member of the Church, hath beene a Soueraigne meanes to conuert errants, and consequently to reforme such as were mis­led by errour. Neither is reformation vnreasonable or impos­sible, although they which reprooue others, are themselues ex­orbitant in some things; because the same must bee perfor­med, not by accomodation to the humor of Reproouers Iren. [...]. 3. ca. 5. Quis autem medicus volens curare aegrotum, faciet secundum [...] aegrotantis & non secundum quod aptum est medici­nae., but according to the diuine rule, wherein all things are straight and perfect. Lastly, when the Roman Church it selfe is in B Schisme and Combustion (which hapned at the Councell of Constance and Basill, and in the dayes of Antipopes,) shall no re­formation be required, because the Parties litigant, being of contrarie opinions, the same cannot be proportioned according to euery ones seuerall humour?

The second reason taken from Councells, Customes, &c. is de­ficient in both the parts. For neither are the Romish doctrines, to wit, Communion in one kind, Popes pardons, Latin Seruice, Purgatorie, Apocryphall Scriptures, Vulgar Translation pre­ferred before the Originall Text, Transubstantiation, &c. defi­ned C by any generall Councell, or deriued from the Apostles or Primitiue Church, by custome and vniuersall consent: And later Councells and Customes must giue place to holy Scrip­ture. Yea according to S. Augustine Aug. c. Do­nat. post. Collat. ca. 15. Quasi E­piscoporum Con­cilia Scripturis Ca­nonicis fuerint a­liquando compa­rata., no vnderstanding man did euer make the Councells of Bishops, equall to Sa­cred Scripture: And some of our learned Aduersaries Drieds. d. Dog. Eccles. li. 2. pa. 58. D Generale Concilium, Papae, Cardinalium Episcoporum in Scripturis Propheticis intelligendis & exponen­dis non est nunc tantae Authoritatis; quantae fuerat olim Apostolorum Collegium. confesse, That a generall Councell of Popes, Cardinalls, and Bishops, is not of equall Authority with the Colledge of the Apostles. Others Read. pag. 154. & 155. Cusanus, Occham, Panormitan, Almain, forus, Cassander. also of them affirme, That such Coun­cels are fallible, and subiect to errour.

The third reason wherein it is affirmed, That Protestants for­saking the common rule of Faith, present the world, with Scrip­tures vnderstood by priuate Illumination; is grounded vpon a false suggestion: for we assume to our selues no other Illumination than only of ordinarie grace; and we maintaine no other expo­sition E of Scripture as diuine, but such as is deliuered by the ho­ly Ghost in the Scripture. And the sence of holy Scripture de­liuered by the Primitiue Church, is followed by Protestants with farre more respect, than by Romists.

[Page] But our Aduerfaries are the men, who dissembling the A same in words, doe in truth maintaine priuate Illumination: For they affirme, That the Bishops of Rome haue infalli­bilitie of Iudgement, by the immediate inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and not by the studie and meditation of holy Scripture Greg. Val. in 3. p. Tho. Disp. 1. q. 1. punct. 7. §. 41. Siue Pontifex in definicndo, studium adhibeat, [...] non adhibeat, modo Controuer­siam definiat, certè [...] definiet. Azor. Instit. Mor. to. 2. lib. 5. cap. 5. q. 3. Si absque Concilio vllo & diligentia rem [...], ant [...] definiat, Spiritum fanctum sibi assistentem peculiariter habet ne labatur & erret, &c. [...]; d. sig. Eccles. lib. 16. cap. 10. Scriptura non refertur inter eiusmodi prin­cipia, quamuis illa sancta & sacra dicatur. Ibid. Siue fidem spectes, sine qua impossibile est placere B Deo, siue Charitatem [...] prima est virtus, Non ad libros, sed ad Ecclesiam membraque eius est con­fugiendum. Ibid. Ipsa Ecclesia propter Arctissimam cum Deo conjunctionem, non veritati inuititur, sed veritas inuititur Ecclesiae. Stapleton, Relect. Contr. 5. q. z. ar. 1. ad. 3. Ecclesia vt corpus & singula membra significat, aedificatur super Apostolos & Prophetas, id est super Doctrinam & praedicationem eorum: Non autem Ecclesia, vt capita & magistros significat. Illorum enim Fundamentum quate­nus talium, est Spiritus Christi illis promissus, non autem praedicatio quam faciunt, aut Doctrina quam tradunt, pag. 506..

IESVIT.

Wherefore, there beeing no possibilitie, that the Catholike part could gaine Peace to Christendome, by C any yeelding vnto our Aduersaries, either reasonable or vnreasonable; whither should louers of Concord turne themselues, but vnto your gracious Maiestie, that haue in your Power the Affections of Protestants, and therefore would bee the fittest Instrument for their Re-vnion with the Romane Church? The God of Charitie hath put into your Maiesties Heart a de­sire of Vnitie of the Church, and in your Hand an D Oliue-Bough-Crowne of Peace, which you may set on the Head of Christendome; which (wearie of end­lesse Contention) poureth foorth vnto your Maiestie her Suppliant Complaint,

And seeing nothing hindereth, but that your selfe are E not yet satisfied in some Doctrines of the Roman Church, particularly in the Nine Points your Maiestie hath set downe in writing; J humbly present vnto your Ma­iestie [Page] these my poore Labours, for your satisfaction, so A much desired of the Christian World. And to the end that this my Answere may be in it selfe more solid, and better accepted of your Maiestie, before J descend vnto particulars, J thinke best first to shew in generall the Romane to bee the onely true Church: For this was the Occasion and Subiect of the Conference betwixt D ^r White, and mee. B

ANSWER.

What a vast and impossible (I will not heere say, impi­ous) enterprise doe you, in the depth of your sublimated wit, cast vpon our Gracious Soueraigne? Must his Maiestie haue the Office of a Proctor, and Factor, for the Court of Rome; nay, of a Lieutenant of the Papall Forces, to re­vnite all Protestants to the Church of Rome? Had you meant the procuring of a Free Generall Coancell of all Chri­stendome, C or (at least) of all the Westerne Church, for the reducing eyther of the Deuiate parts home to the Truth, or the exasperated parts to a more charitable complying, in things indifferent, or tollerable (in which discussion, as well the Papacie it selfe, as other matters, might bee subiect to Tryall;) such a Worke might be fit for a Church-man to mooue, and for his Majestie to affect: than whom, no Prince (no, nor priuate Christian) is more forward in Zeale, and furnished in Wisedome, to purge the Distempers, and heale the Wounds of the Christian Church.

But your former words shew the frensie of the Demand, D when you fore-lay this for a Ground (Satis imperitè, nimis obstinatè) That those particular Enormities that wee Protestants call to haue reformed, are the verie Foundations of the Vnitie of Faith, Catholike Principles, &c. And so this your dreamed Re-vnion must bee, not to come (on your part) one step towards vs, but our running headlong to you; which is no other, than a slauish subjection of all Churches to the Papacie, and the trampling Gods Truth, and Gods People, vnder the foot of the vnerrable, vncontroulable Grand Seig­niour of the seuen-Hilled Citie. E

It seemeth you haue forgotten, or would extinguish the validitie and memorie of his Majesties most judicious Wri­tings, in maintenance of Orthodoxe Religion, and of the [Page] Libertie of Christendome, and shaking the verie Foundations A of Papall Corruptions, and Tyrannie: Otherwise, you ne­uer would thus boldly and leaudly call to so puissant a Cham­pion in the Lords Battailes, to sound Retreat: To whom the state of Christendome (to speake in your phrase) pou­reth foorth her Suppliant Complaint; but to an end opposite to your Projects.

IESVIT.

Thinke best first to shew in generall A the Roman to be the onely true Church. For this was the occasion and subiect of the conference betwixt Dr. WHITE and me, and is the most important, and manifest point of controuersie, in which all other are inuolued.

ANSVVER. B

THe most important? Nei­ther most nor important at all, to all, but onely to those who are either in­uolued in that Church, or vexed by it. If people may attaine saluation without knowing the qualitie of the Romane Church, then it is not of all Questions and Controuersies most important, to know whether C the Romane Church is the true Church or not.

But many people may bee saued without this knowledge, for all they may attaine saluation which are baptised, and which be­leeue [Page 2] and repent, Mark 16, 16. Acts 2, 38. and which haue all A the ordinarie meanes of Saluation, 1. Tim. 2, 4. But without vnderstanding the qualitie of the Romane Church, people may be baptised, beleeue, and repent, and haue all the ordinarie meanes of saluation, as appeareth by the Iewes, Asts 2, 41. and the Eunuch, Acts 8, 37. and Lydia, Acts 16, 14. and many Gentiles Acts 13, 48. and the elect Ladie and her children 2. Iohn v. 1, 2, 4. and the Corinthians, Galatians; Ephesians, and the seuen Chur­ches of Asia, Apoc. 2, 3. &c.

Occham saieth Occham Dial. part. 1. li. 5. ca. 23. Omnis Ecclesia ex­tra quam potest es­se salus potest con­trà fide m errare, extrà Ecclesiā au­tèm Romanam po­test esse salus, quē ­admodum post as­censionem Christi fuit salus ante­quam Romana Ec­clesia inchoaretur. that after Christs ascension many people were saued before the Roman Church had anie being: and AEneas Siluius AEneas Siluius Epist. 288. Ante Concilium Nicenum quisque sibi viuebat, & paruus respectus habebatur ad Ecclesiam Romanam. affir­meth, B That the first 300 yeares, before the Nicene Counsell, small re­gard was had of the Roman Church. Iohannes Maior saieth, Maior C 4. d. 24. q. 3. Indi & Christiani in alijs locis seperati si reliqua ad fidem necessaria crederent, nescij quod Romanus pontifex, fit caput Ecclesiae durum est dicere quod sint in statu damnationis. It were ouer hard to affirme, that the Indians and other Christans, which liue in remote countries, should be in the state of damnation, because they were ig­norant, That the Bishop of Rome is head of the Church, if they beleeue other necessarie Articles of Saluation. And Alchasar saieth, Alchasar Commentar. in Apoc. ca. 20 ver. 1, 2, 3. Annot. 3. Sect. 9. p. 881. Antequam nuptiae cum Romana Ecclesia per receptam publicae Christia­nae fidei consuetudinem celebrarentur, &c. minus frequens cum Roma Communio satis fuit. Francisc. Picus. Mitandul. Theorem. 8. Quod si quis fortè obijciat non videri sibi sanctos illos priscos pontificem veneratos [...] fuisse vt primas illi in vniuersa Ecclesia palàm publice (que) concesserint, sed nequè ad eum pro ambiguis controuer­fisquè fidei rebus, sciscitatum semper miserint, imò & in faciem restiterint atque in scribendis Epistolis non secus cos ac alium quemquam Episcoporum honorare visi sunt respondendum censeo priscae illius Ecclesiae, simplicita­tem fuisse in causa &c. Et addi forraffè poterit temporaria illa bona quae nune Ecclesiastici homines possident occasionem dedisse &c. Illud etiam subdendum quod occupata [...] in rebus Ecclesis, non erat otium de Summi Pontificis primatu curiosè perquirere disputareque, &c. Before such time as the publique nuptials betweene the Roman and other Chur­ches were celebrated, by a common receiued custome, a lesse frequent com­munion with that Church was sufficient.

Seconly, It is no Article of the Apostles Creed, or of any D other ancient Creed, neither is it delinered in any plaine text or sentence of holy Scripture, That all Christian people must receiue their beleefe from the Roman Church; or that the same intirely shall in all ages continue in the doctrine and faith receiued from the Apostles; yea the contrarie is taught in holie Scripture, Rom. 11, 22. But if the doctrine aforesaid were fundamentall, and of greatest importance, the same must haue beene plainely deliue­red either in holy Scripture, August. d. Doctr. Christ. li. 2. c. 9. In ijs quae aper­te in Scriptura posita sunt, inueniuntur illa omnia, quae continent fidem moresque viuen di, &c. Idem d. [...]. E Mer. & Remiss. li. 2. c. 36. Dried. d. Eccles. Dogm. li. 2. c. 3. fol. 60. Gerson. d. vit. Spirit. Lect. 2. Coral. 7. & de Seas. Script. propos. 9. Bellarm. d. verb. Dei li. 4. c. 11. or in all, or some of the auncient Creedes.

IESVIT. A

The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth, 2. Tim. 3, 15. The eminent Rocke and Mountaine filling the whole world, on the top whereof standeth the Tradition of sauing Doctrine conspicuous and immooueable, Ergo, Jt is the most important Controuersie of all other to know, whether the Ro­man Church be the true Church. B

ANSVVER.

Foure texts of Scripture are produced, to proue, that it is the most important controuersie of all other, to know whether the Roman Church be the true Church: but neither are the places of Scripture expounded rightly, neither is the Iesuits islation from them consequent or firme.

1 Although it were granted that the totall certaintie of Chri­stiantie C dependeth vpon the Church, yet because the Roman Church is not the whole Church, but onely a part and member thereof, Rom. 1, 6. and such a member as may erre Franscisc. Pi­cus, Theorem 13. iuxtà [...] quorundam & ju­ris interpretum a­liquornm dogma­ta, fieri posset vt Rom. Ecclesia quae particularis Eccle­sia est contrà [...] distincta, in side aberraret. and proue vn­sound, Rom. 11, 22. The knowledge of the state and qualitie of that Church, cannot be simply necessarie, and consequently not a matter of greatest importance to be vnderstood.

2 The places of Scripture, 1. Tim. 3, 15. Math. 16, 18. Esay 2, 1. Dan. 2, 35. proue not the question. The first place, to wit Math. 16, 18. is expounded by manie interpreters of Christ himselfe, Haimo & Ly­ra super Math. 16. Glesia Gratian. Causa [...]. [...]. 1. cap. Omnibus consid. Super hanc petra id est, Christum. [...]. sup. Ephes. 2. [...]. 20. Super hane petram, id est, su­per me aedificabo Ecclesiam meam. and by the most, of the faith which S. Peter confessed touching Christ. August. d. verb. Dom. Serm. 13. Idem sup. Ioh. [...]. 124. Orig. sup [...]. E [...] Ambr. Epist. 38. [...] in Luc. li. 6. ca 9 [...]. Galath. ca. 1. & sup. Math. Hom. 55. & 83. [...]. d. Trin. li. 2. & 6. Gre­gor. li. 3. Epist. 33. [...] in Ioh. c. 21. The [...] 22. q. 174. ar. 6. Stella in Luc. 9. Concil. Basil. pa. 145. [...] Contr. Schol. 3. And our Sauiour affirmeth not in this Text, that the Ro­man D Church of euerie age is a Rocke; but that the Church of right beleeuers is builded vpon a Rocke, Aug. sup. Psal. 60. vt [...] Ecclesia super petram, qui factus est petra, [...] andi [...], petra [...] erat Christus, in illo ergo aedificati [...]. and so the Church is one thing, and the Rocke another, because nothing is builded vpon it selfe.

The second place 1. Tim. 3, 15. [...], that the Church which is the house of the liuing God is, [...] the pillar and ground of Truth. 1. If by the Church we vnderstand the Catholicke Church, as it containeth the holie Apostles, Occham Dial. li. 1. c. 4. part. 1. Dried. d. Dog Eccles. li. 2. [...]. 58 Generale Concilium Pape, Cardinalium, Episcoporum, Doctorum, in Scripturis propheticis [...], non est [...] authoritatis quantae fucrit [...] Collegium. then this commendation agreeth fully and perfectly to it, in [Page 4] respect of the Apostles, who were led into all Truth, Iohn 16, 13. A and which taught whilest they [...], all Truth, and they do at this present day, in the Scripture, teach the fulnesse of Truth. Aug. sup. Epist. Ioh. tr. 3. Chrys. sup. Ro. Hom. 30. Greg. Mor. l. 18. c. 14. [...]. Offic. l. 1. c. 23. Vincent. Lir. c. Haer. c. 41. 2. If by the Church we vnderstand the Church of Christ, liuing after the Apostles, the same is by office and calling the pillar and ground of Truth in all ages. And some part or other thereof [...] Truth of God [...] to saluati­on. Dried. d. Ec­cles. Dog. li. 2. ca. 3. pa. 58. Glossa Inter­lin. sup. Math. 16. v. 18. Turrecrem. Sum. d. Eccles. li. 2. ca. 91. Alphons. Castro. d. punit. Haer. li. 1. c. 5 But the present Church is not [...] and simply, in all things, the pillar and ground of Truth, but so farre onely as it teacheth the doctrine reuealed by the holie Ghost, and groun­deth her faith vpon the word of God: Lorca. 22ae. Disp. 37. n. 15. Bel­larm. d. verb. Dei li. 4. c. 9. Nihil est de fide nisi quod Deus per Apostolos aut Prophetas reuela­uit. and this is proued, be­cause B the Church Apostolicall was free from all errour, but suc­ceeding Pastors and Doctors may erre in Ecclesiasticall censures, Panormit. in 5. Decret. d. Sent. Excom. ca. 28. Iudi­tium Dei, veritati quae nec fallit nec fallitur semper [...], [...] a­liquandò sequitur [...] quae sae­pèfallit & [...]. in degrees legislatiue, Mych. Medin. d. Rect. in Deum fid. li. 5. c. 11. in sermons, disputations, and other tra­ctats (as our Aduersaries themselues [...]. d. Pon­tif. li. 4. [...]. Carbo. [...]. Theol. li. 4. c. 18 & li. 5. c. 8. Ex [...] Coneilijs [...] illa sunt ni fuerint approbatione [...] munita, nullum [...] omnia hujus generis [...] in omnibus errare possunt. confesse;) and they which propugne the infallible authoritie of the present Church, re­straine the same to the Pope and Councell (of which S. Paul is silent, 1. Tim. 3, 15.) And from hence I inferre, That the Church wherein the Apostles taught and gouerned, was the ground and pillar of Truth, fully, intirely, and in all things: But the present C Church is so, with limitation, conditionally, and so farre forth onely, as it deliuereth the Apostles doctrine. Lastly, the Roman Church can challenge no greater priuiledge of Infallibilitie from this Scripture, than the church of Ephesus, Greg. li. 6. [...]. 37. [...] multisint Apostoli pro ipso tamen principatu sola Apostolorum principis sedes, in authoritate conua­lult, quae in tribus locis [...] est. Ipse enim sublimauit sedem in qua etiam quiescere & presentem vitam finire [...] est. Ipse [...] sedem in qua Euangelistam [...] misit, ipse firmauit sedem in qua septem annis [...] discessurus sedit. Cum ergò vnius atquèvna sit sedes cui ex authoritate diuina tres nunc Episcopi praesidét [...] de vobis boni audio, hoc mihi imputo. of which the Apostle speaketh litterally in the said Text. But although the Church of Ephesus was by office the pillar and ground of Truth, yet the same did afterwards degenerate and depart from the right Faith; which argueth, that particular Churches, such as were the Ro­man, Ephesine, Corinthian, &c. are not in such sort the pillar and ground of Truth, as that they are in no danger of errour Occham Dial. p. 1. li. 2. c. 4. Sancti stante charitate possunt [...] veritatem &c. Error qui [...] non habet, non obuiat sanctitati.. D

The other two places Esay 2, 1. Dan. 2, 35. are principally vn­derstood of Christ Aug. Psalm. 45. Erit in [...] dicbus [...] mons Domini, sed [...] mons super ali­os montes [...]. Quià & Aposto­li montes, portan­tes hunc montem. and his Apostles, and they proue not the Ie­suits position, which is, It is the most important controuersie of all other, to know whether the Roman Church is the true Church; for the present E Church of Rome is a Molehill, and not the Mountaine prophesi­ed of Esay 2. the same filleth not the whole world, but onely a small part of the world; neither did the same antiently, for 500 yeares at the least, fill the whole world, for many people, both in [Page 5] the East and West were Christians, without depending vpon it: A neither is the same alwaies illustrious for Vertue and Truth, but sometimes notorious for Superstition and Vice Francisco Picus Orat. ad. Leo 10. Cerrè exiquus Dei cultus nulla bene viuendi ratio at (que) institutio, nullus pudor, nulla mo­destia, justitia vel in odium vel in gratiam declina­uit, pietas in super­stitioné penè pro­cubuit palamquè in [...] homi­nú ordmibus [...], &c. Sacras aedes & templa Le­nonibus & Cata­mytis commissa quam nesarijs lupis optimi pastoris ouilia demandata &c.. If our Adnersa­ries will contend, That there is in all ages avisible Church, like vnto a great Mountaine filling the whole world, vpon the top whereof standeth the Tradition of all true doctrine, conspicuous and illustrious. 1. The places of Esay and Daniell affirme not this, concerning all times and ages of the Church. 2. The Scrip­tures foretell a large reuolt and apostasie from heauenly trueth 1. Tim 4, 1, 2. 2. Thess. 2, 2.. 3. Our Aduersaries themselues acknowledge, that the outward face of the visible Church, at some times hath beene, and againe B may be, miserably polluted with foule and enormious scandals, and abominations Greg. Vat. 3. pa. 187. Errorum Schysmatum, persecutionum fluctibus ita agitari potest vt imperitis sit [...] difficilis [...] exteriorem pompam habeat. Praefat. O G ad orat. Francise. Pic. Mirandul. Cum infiniti abusus Schysmata quo (que) & Haereses per totum nunc Christianum orbem inualescant. Laurent. Iustinian. d. Compunct. 575. Declinaue­runt prorsus omnes Ecclesiae status: qui spiritualia sunt corporis Christi membra:ex quibus nonnulli alienati sunt ab vtero matris suae, & loquuntur falsa: aliqui verò abierunt retrorsum, carnis defideria sectantes, seipsos aman­tes, & temporalia lucra quaerentes, honorum cupidiscelesti adulteri & miseri. Ista nam (que) vigent, nedum in inferio­ribus, verum etiàm in mediocribus, & sublimioribus membris adeo vt confusa videantur vniuersa vt à planta pe­dis vsque ad verticem capitis, in hoc corpore spiritualis, non appare at sanitas &c. Petrus Leidens. Epist. ad Cle­ment. C 7. antè opera Dionis. Carthus. Quid in Ecclesia non est [...], quid non corruptum, quid non inuer­sum? quid inter Ecclesiasticos integrum hodiè [...] &c.

IESVIT.

If this Church bee ouerthrowne the totall certainetie of Christianitie cannot but with it fall to the ground.

ANSVVER.

The totall certainetie of Christianitie dependeth not vpon a Church illustrious, and conspicuous to the eie of the whole D world, and hauing such externall pompe and Visibilitie as Papals imagine [...]. d. Ec­cles. li. 3 c. 2. Eccle­sia est caetus homi­num ita visibilis & palpabilis, vt est [...] populi Ro­mani, [...] Gal­liae, [...] Respub. [...]. [...] c. Brent. li. 3. pag. 155.. Therefore if such a Church be ouerthrowne, that is, be proued in sundrie Articles to be corrupt and vnfound (which is our Tenet concerning the present Roman Church) the certaintie of Christianitie may still subsist. The Tenet which wee main­taine, touching the qualitie of the present Roman Church, [...] to the reformation of errours, and abuses in the same, and not to the ouerthrowing of the lawfull authoritie of the Visible Church. The certainetie of Religion in the time of the Iewes, did depend as much vpon the authoritie of the Visible Church E of Iuda, as it can in our daies depend vpon the authoritie of the Roman Church, or of any other: for that Church was by office the keeper of the Canonicall Scripture, Rom. 3, 2. the teacher of heauenly trueth, Ezek. 44, 23, Mal. 2, 7. a ministeriall Iudge of con­trouersies, [Page 6] Deut. 17, 9. Ezek. 44, 24. and yet notwithstanding the A said Church was reprooued by the holie Prophets, Mal. 2, 8. 2. Chron. 29.6, 7. Esay 56, 10. Ezek. 34. and the religious kings of Iuda reformed the same, 2. Chron. 14.3, 4. and cap. 17.7, 8, 9. and cap. 29.3. &c. and cap. 34.3, 4. and cap. 33.15. Now like as when a Physition discouereth the diseases of the bodie, and prescri­beth remedies and medecines, he doth thereby heale, and not destroy the state of the bodie; so likewise, they which out of the Oracles of God, haue reuealed the errours and corruptions of the Roman Church, and sought reformation thereof [...] Def. li. d. Offic. [...]. pa. 815. In [...], [...] vni­uersam immeritò [...] multos esse pios viros non minore quam quisquam ipsorum praese serat, reformanda Ecclesiae studio & [...] & superstitionum odio [...]., doe not ouerthrow the certainetie of Christianitie, nor impaire B the lawfull authoritie of the Church, but repaire and establish the same.

IESVIT.

If it be hidden and made inuisible, men must needs wander in the search of the first deliuered Christian Doctrine, with­out C end or hope of euer ariuing at any certaine Issue. And if this Controuersie be not examined and determined in the first place, disputation by Scripture will proue fruitlesse; by the Non ad Scripturas prouocandum nec in eis constituen­dum, certamen in quibus nulla aut parum certa [...], Tertul. in prae­script. ca. 19 sole euidence whereof, no victorie can be gotten against pro­teruious error, or at least not victorie that is verie appa­rant; neither will answers about particular Doctrines satisfie a mind preoccupated with a long continued dislike of them.

ANSVVER. D

In this Section two things are deliuered, First, If the Church be hidden, &c. Secondly: Controuersies cannot be decided by sole Scrip­ture, &c.

To the first I answer, The Church, (that is the societie of Christian people, professing sauing Faith) is at no time totally bidden and inuisible [...] d. [...] in Epist. Dedic. [...] non [...] in se, & [...], vt [...] quoddam est, sed [...] solum, visi­bilem [...] negamus: Et quod hic [...] est [...], id in suis partibus personis, [...], [...] visibile affirma­mus esse. Nec posse [...], [...], & [...], [...]: sed [...] est, sic esse in se, ac inter suos [...] & Antiochi, & aliorum temporibus [...]., but in Persecution, the same may be hidden and vnknowne to them which [...] no will to know it, 2. Cor. 4, 3. or which defire to know it, that they may persecute and oppresse it, Reuelat. 12, 14. E And the same may sometimes cease to be largely, and in a [...] [Page 7] and pompous. manner visible, Math. 10, 23. and 23, 34. A Heb. 11, 38. And in the state of Persecution, when the same is hidden and vnknowne to enemies, the friends of this Church, to whom it is knowne, may by the Ministerie thereof exercised in priuate Acts 1, 13. &c. 12, 12. &c. [...]. Pollidor. d. Inuent. [...] li. 5. c. 6., receiue the certaintie of beleefe: and if it be vnknowne or hidden to any of them, these may by priuat reading, or medi­tation of that which they haue formerly learned, supplie the de­fect of publique Ministerie Occham Dial. li. 5. ca. 34. Fides Cath, Christi pote­rit remanere in Catholicis disper­sis & latitantibus in terris ab infide­libus occupatis &c. Turrian. 22. Disp. 2. Dub. 4. Conditio aliquandò non est immediata propo­sitio per Ecclesiam sed vel per Conci­onatorem vel pa­rentes, qui docent filios., euen as some Christians at this day, being slaues in Turkie or Barbarie, may be saued without ex­ternall Ministerie. And it is also possible for such to be Instru­ments of conuerting and sauing others Acost. d. Proc. Ind. Sal. lib. 2. ca. 9. Ecclesiasticae histo­riae narrant tem­pore Constantini magni, totam Ibe­riam prouinciam quae est Armeniae proxima Christia­nae mulieris capti­uae opera & signis ad Christum esse conuersam., Ruffin. Hist. Eccles. li. 1. B c. 9, & 10. Besides, we do also acknowledge, that the Popish Church, although it were corrupt and vnsound in many things, yet it preserued the Bookes of holie Scripture, and taught the Apostles Creed, and sundrie parts of Diuine veritie collected from the same Libauius c. Gretser. Triumph. c. 13. pa. 103. mansit aliqua lux verbi Dei vt Euangelij lectiones, Symbola, Oratio Dominica & Baptismi sub­stantialia &c. Gomar. Spec. ver. Eccles. pa. 201. Compertum est etiam nunquam in Papatu tam densas [...] D tenebras, quin aliqua fuerit publica in templis Euangelij lectio, & promissionum Euangelij pro concione quam­uis adjunctis erroribus repetitio & [...] non [...] mirandum complures Dei spiritu adjunante ad [...] fidem praeteritis quasi surda aure expositionum vestrarum corruptelis Euangelij voce conuersos.: and by these Principles of Christianitie pre­serued in that Church, iuditious and pious men might with stu­die and diligence find out, what was the first deliuered Christian Doctrine, in such things as are necessarie to Saluation; as in the Iewish Church, when the same was corrupt in manners and do­ctrine, Mal. 2, 8. Esay 56, 10. 2. Kings 16, 11, 16. Marc. 6, 34. C the Bookes of holie Scripture, and many remnants of Diuine truth (which were able to saue Gods elect) remained and were sufficient Principles, from whence all sauing truth might be deri­ued Hieron. Sup. Nah. cap. 3. In aduentu ergo Christi & Sermonis Dei & Doctrinae [...] & consummationis Niniue spe­ciocissimae quondam meritricis: eleuabitur & properabit [...], qui sub magistris ante fuerat consopitus, & ibit and montes Scripturarum: ibi (que) inueniet Montes Moysen, & Iesum filium Naue Montes Prophetas, Montes Noui Testamenti Apostolos & Euangelistas, & cum ad tales Montes confugerit & in hujusmodi montium fuerir lectione versatus si non inuenerit qui eum doceat, messis enim multa operarij autem pauci tunc & illius studium comprobabitur [...] confugerit ad Montes & Magistrorum defidia coarguetur. Espenc. Com. in Epist. Tit. c. 2. pa. 259. Nonne videtur tum Propheta, tum interpres nostri [...], & Pastorum filentium ne [...] ignauiam & populi ante cum eis consopiti, quasi è graui somno excitati studium & ad Sctipturas tum audiendas tum legen­das [...] alacritatem praedicere & quasi digito indicare., and pernitious errours and abuses discouered and refor­med. And thus although the true Church be granted at some­times to be hidden and inuisible, in manner before expressed, well affected people shall not want all meanes to vnderstand what was the first deliuered Christian faith.

The Iesuit in the next passage laboureth to make it appeare E impossible, to end and determine Controuersies of Religion, without the authoritie of a perpetuall visible Church, whose iudgement is alwaies infallible, and free from all error. But if his speech be resolued from a Rhethoricall flourish, into forme of [Page 8] Argument, the loosenesse of it will appeare. For he proceedeth A in this or the like manner:

IESVIT.

By all such meanes as is of it selfe sufficient to declare what was the first deliuered Christian Doctrine apparant, victorie may be gotten against proteruious errour, and minds preoccupated with long dislike of particular Doctrines may be satisfied. By sole Scripture no apparant victorie can B be gotten against proteruious errour, neither can long dislike of particular Doctrines be satisfied: Ergo, sole Scripture is not a sufficient meanes to declare what was the first deliue­red Christian Doctrine.

ANSVVER.

First, If by apparant Victorie, be meant such Victorie, as proteruious errants will confesse, or persuade themselues to C bee a Victorie against them, then the Maior Proposition is false. For when our Sauiour himselfe confuted the Pharisees, by such demonstration as none could be greater, yet they resisted the Truth, and in like sort they resisted S ^t. Stephen, Acts 7, 53. and S. Paul, Acts 28, 23. and in the best Councels of Nice, Ephe­sus, &c. no such apparant Victorie was gotten of proteruious Heretiques Euseb. vit. Con­stant. lib. 2. c. 71. [...] Socrat. Hist. Eccles. lib. 1. c. 6. [...]. D.

Secondly, If by apparant Victorie, be meant a true and suffi­cient confutation and conuiction of Errants, then the Minor is false; for that is a sufficient means to obtaine Victorie, by which our Sauiour himselfe subdued Sathan, Math. 4.4, 7. and the Here­tiques of his time, Math. 12, 3. & 22, 29, 43. and by which S ^t. Paul confuted the Pharisees, and other Aduersaries, Acts 17, 2. and 28, 23. And whereby the Fathers of the Nicene Councell conuicted the Arrians [...] Dial. p. 3 tr. 1. lib. 3. ca. 6. [...]. Cyzicen. in Acta. Concil. Ni­cen. pa. 2., Socrat. Hist. l. 1. c. 6. Exquifitis le­gis diuinae testimonijs. Dist. 15. c. 1. [...]. and which are giuen by inspira­tion to be an effectuall meanes to reprooue and confute error, 2. E Tim. 3, 16. Chrys. d. fid. & leg. nat Quandò haec dicit Haereticus nos à Sancta Scriptura [...] proferamus [...] enim [...] in [...] inimicorum Regis [...]. [...] Orgelit. in Cantic. [...] hac Sancta Scriptura omnis armatura [...]. [...]. [...]. d. Diu. Nom. c. [...]. Nos [...] Scriptura, quasi nor­ma & luce adhibita, constanter ad [...] nostra, pro [...] parte [...].. But the Iesuit may cauil, saying, [Page 9] that euen as a sword in the hand of a Giant, is sufficient to [...] A an enemie, but not in the hand of a child who cannot vse it; so the Scriptures are a meanes to conuict proteruious [...], as they were vsed by Christ and his Apostles, and by the [...] Councels or Papall Councels, and the Bishops and Doctors of the Roman Church, &c.

Answ. First, Our Sauiour and his Apostles did both vse the Scriptures themselues, and commanded others, euen simple men to vse them Chrys. Gen. [...]. 37. Christus praecepit dioens scrutemini Scrip­turas, vt nòn tan­tùm [...] lectioni vacemus sed inda­gatis profundis, ve­rum sensum [...] percipere vale­amus, &c., Iohn 5, 39. Ephes. 6, 17. and they are commended who examined Doctrine by them. Acts 17, 11. B

Secondly, they which vnderstand and applie the Scriptures truely, vse them as Christ and his Apostles did, and so the Scrip­ture in their vse is a word of power, and not as a sword in a childs hand.

Thirdly, Scriptures were meanes to conuict Hereticks (as they were vsed by the Fathers of the Church, and other holie Per­sons) before any generall Councells were gathered, to wit the first three hundred yeares, and before the Papall Supremacie was aduanced in the Church.

Fourthly, it is ridiculous to imagine, that the present Roman C Church, and the sole Adheres thereof, according to the Trident Creed, are the only true expositors of holy Scriptures; or that [...] exposition of Scripture, repugnant and diuers from the present Roman Creed, is false or Haereticall: for neither hath the holie Ghost by expresse testimonie, or euident demonstration, appropriated the key of knowledge to this Church, and few He­retickes haue more fouly corrupted and abused the Scriptures. And the pillars of this Church [...] sundrie times been vnskil­full Ideots, vnlettered Gulls, Monsters of mankind, with whom D the holie Spirit vseth not to haue commerce Francisc. Pic. Theo. 18. Persuasissi­mum nobis esse de­bet [...] modò eos qui Doctiores, sed & [...] sunt clarius & exquisitius caeteris, veritatem agnoscere & agnitam [...] &c. Quis enim ambigat, [...] hominem [...] committere, quem probatae perspectaeque [...], quam qui bonitatis expers aut indigus, doctrina [...] pollet. Et D. Ambros. de paradiso [...]: nemi­nem debere se alteri credere, nisi [...] virtutem probauerit., Wisdom. 1. 2. Cor. 6. 15.

Fiftly, the place of Tertul. d. Praescript. c. 19. doth not [...] the imperfection of holie Scripture to conuict proteruious er­ror, according to the latter part of my former distinction; for then he could not haue said, Scripturae plenitudinem adoramus; We E adore the plenitude of the [...], and, Let Hermogenes teach Tert. cont. [...]. cap. 22. [...] Hermogenes scrip­tum esse, si non est scriptum timeat [...] illud, adijcientibus aut detrahentibus destinatum., that it is written: and if it be not written, let him feare the Wo denounced against them which add or detract any thing from the word of God: but be [...] of the Scriptures, according to the first part of my distinction, to wit, That Heretickes blinded with malice, [Page 10] and either denying or corrupting the text [...] Cum ex Scripturis [...] in accusatio­nem [...] ipsarum Scriptura­rum quafi non rectè se habeant, nequè fint ex au­thoritate &c. Iren. li. 3. ca. 2. of the Scriptures, A Tertul. d. Prae­script. c. 17. Ista Hae­tefis non recipit quasdam Scriptu­ras: Et si quas re­cipit adiectionibus & detractionibus ad [...] instituti sui [...], & fi recipit non recipit inte­gras & si aliqua te­nùs integras prae­stat, nihilomin' di­uersas expositiones commentata conuertit. cannot be so conuicted by them, but they will still vse cauils, and by Sophisticall slights borrowed from Philosophers Tertul. d. Praescr. c. 7. & C. Marc. li. 5. c. 19. Chrys. prol. sup. 1. Corinth. Hieron. sup. Esa. c. 19. & [...]. sup. Daniel. elude the euidence of the plaine Texts of Scriptures. But if this argue the Scriptures of imperfection, it will also prooue the Authori­tie of the Church, and of Tradition, to be insufficient, as ap­peares in the Arrians and Donatists. And Heretickes may with no lesse pretext, take exception against Tradition, and Ecclesiasti­call Authoritie, than against the Scripture, Ireneus li. 3. ca. 2. When they are confuted by Scriptures, they accuse them as being not well writ­ten, and destitute of Authoritie, or else so ambiguous that one cannot B find the Truth by them &c. And in like manner when we prouoke them to stand to triall by Tradition, which came from the Apostles Cum autem ad eam iterum Traditionem, quae est ab Apostolis quae per successiones pres­biterorum in Ecclesus custoditur, prouocamus eos, aduersantur Traditioni. &c. they oppose the same &c. And thus they will consent neither to Scrip­ture nor Tradition Euenit itaque nequè Scriptu­ris iam nequè Traditioni eos consentire.. And Gregorie Valence Greg. val. [...]. 3. Disp. 1. p. 1. pa. 36. Reuelatio diuina & propositio C infallibilis Ecclesiae, non minus obscura nobis est quam quilibet alius Articulus fidei credendus. himselfe saith, The in­fallible teaching and proposition of the Church is no lesse obscure vnto vs than any other Article which we are to beleeue.

Sixtly, we acknowledge the lawfull Power and Authoritie of the Church Caluin Insti­tut. li. 4. c. 1. num. 10. Whitak. Duplic. li. 1. c. 9. Christi Eccle­siam summa vene­ratione prosequi­mur, & authoritatem Ecclesie libenter amplectimur: & [...] Christianum nunquam esse arbitrabor, qui testimonium & iuditium Ecclesiae nihili fecerit., about expounding holy Scriptures, and for main­taining Vnitie in right Faith, and appeasing contention, & repres­sing proteruious Errants, Heb. 13.17. Math. 18.17.1. Timoth. 3.15. 2. Thessal. 5.12.

And in particular, first wee beleeue the authority of Councels D General and Nationall, lawfully assembled, and accordingly pro­ceeding, to be sacred. [...]. [...]. Fid. 2d Gra­tian. [...]. Hist. Eccles. l. 1. c. 7. So­crat. Hist. Eccles. l. 1. c. 6. Greg. lib. 1. Ep. 24. [...] Walden. to. 1. li. 2. c. 20. De quatuor conciliis magnis quod Gregorius ea videtur comparare [...], non autem comparar sed similitudi­nem quandam insinuat [...] in Enangelio Christus, [...] perfectificut [...] vester coelest. Matth. 5. And all Councels of this nature we reue­rence with the same honour the ancient Church did, [...]. d. Bapt. l. 1. c. 7. &c. 18. & l. 2. c. 8. D. Andr. C. Apolog. Bellarm. c. 14. Date nobis [...] legitimè congregata & pro­cedentia E in corum sententiam imus statim. Occham. Dialog. part. 3. l. 3. c. 13. affirming that priuate Christians and particular Churches, are to submit their iudgement to the authority of the same, except it bee mani­fest that they depart from Truth.

Secondly, wee highly and reuerently esteeme exposition of Scripture, deliuered by the vnanimous consent of the Prima­tiue [Page 11] Fathers [...]. Epist. ad Micon. Chemnic. Examin. Concil. Trid. part. 1. pag. 78. Caluin. Commentar. Act. 8. ver. 31. Praefat. to BB. Iewells workes last edit. D. Andr. BB. Winch. c. Apo­log. Belarm. c. 14. pa. 333. [...] Respon. ad Perion. pa. 20. [...]. d. Colloq. Ratisbon. pa. 182. Herbrand. Disp. 41. n. 16. Meisuer. Excub. pa. 43.: and although wee yeeld eminent and supreme Au­thoritie A to the holy Scriptures Serran. Apparat. ad Fid. Cath. Summa quidem Dei eiusquè Scripturae authoritas est: verum sua quoquè Ecclesiae iurisdictio, constat sua authoritas., because the same is absolutely diuine, yet when any question ariseth concerning Expositions, we allow not priuate persons D. Bilson. Gouern. of the Church, ca. 13. pa. 280. Meisner. Excub. Papist. pa. 175. Si omnes ab Apostolis per omnia secula patres primarium quoddam & maximè controuersum Scripturae dictum in quo articulus aliquis fidei Christianae fundatur [...] modo adeoquè pleno & vnanimi conseusu exposuerint, tùm sanè ab ista conformi patrum expositione, non est recedendum, meritoquè suspectus esse debet omnis ille sensus, qui tanto patrum consensui directo opponitur. vpon vncertaine or probable rea­sons, to reiect the sence, which hath bin antiently and commonly receiued, and against which no strong or solid exception can be produced. Now this being obserued, and other helps of ex­pounding Scripture vsed, there followeth nothing from our Te­net, whereby Christianitie should be made vncertaine, and Dis­putation from sole Scripture prooue fruitles, or which may hin­der apparent Victorie (by the same) against proteruious Error. B

IESVIT.

Principle 1. No man can be saued without firme and sure appre­hension of supernaturall Truth, concerning his last end, and the meanes to D attaine thereunto.

Secondly, Assurance of this kind is not had by cleere sight Demonstration, humane Discourse, or humane Authoritie, but by Faith grounded vpon Gods Word, reuealing things vnknowne by other meanes.

Thirdly, God reuealed all Supernaturall Truth to Christ, and Christ reuealed the same to the holy Apostles, partly by vocall Prea­ching, but principally by the immediate teaching of his holy Spirit, to this end, that they should deliuer them to mankind, to bee recei­ued and beleeued euerie where ouer the World, euen to the consummation E thereof.

Fourthly, the Apostles fulfilled this preaching to all Nations, and deliuering partly by writing, and partly by word of mouth, the whole entire Doctrine of Saluation; planted an vniuersall Christian com­panie [Page 12] [...], and to deliuer vn­to A [...], all they had [...] from them.

Fiftly, though the Apostles and their Primatiue Hearers be deceased, yet there still remaines in the World a meanes, by which men may assuredly know what the Apostles preached, andthe Prima­tiue Church receiued of them, because the Church, euen to the endof the World, must be founded on the Apostles, and beleeue nothing as matter of Faith, but that which was deliuered by them.

The former grounds being confessed, a question remaineth to be exa­mined: What is the principall infallible meanes whereby a Christian may B know what was, and is the Doctrine of Faith, originally preached by the Apostles, Whether holy Scripture of the Apostles and Euangelists bee that meanes, or perpetuall Tradition vnwritten, deriued by Succession from the Apostles?

ANSVVER.

The Iesuit affirmeth the latter, and produceth foure Argu­ments to prooue his Tenet; and then supposing that he hath prooued the Question, inferreth that the Roman Church is the only true Church, because it is the only faithfull keeper and C teacher of this Tradition.

IESVITS 1. Argument.

If the maine and substantiall points of our Faith are beleeued to bee Apostolicall, because written in the Scrip­ture of the New Testament, and the Scriptures of the New Testament are beleeued to come from the Apostles, vp­on the voice of perpetuall Tradition vnwritten; then our D resolution, That our Faith is Apostolicall, stayeth finally vp­on Tradition vnwritten.

But the maine and substantiall points of our Faith are beleeued to be Apostolicall, because they are written in Scrip­tures, and the Scriptures &c. are beleeued to come from the Apostles by perpetuall Tradition vnwritten.

Ergo, Our resolution that our Faith is Apostolicall, re­steth finally vpon Tradition vnwritten. E

ANSVVER.

If the second part of the Antecedent, to wit, And the Scrip­tures of the new Testament, are beleeued to come from the Apostles [Page 13] vpon the [...] of [...] Tradition vnwritten, bee vnderstood A without any further explication or addition, then the sequell of the Maior is denied: and if onely, or principally, bee added to vn­written Tradition, then the Assumption is false.

First, although the Scriptures of the new Testament, are be­leeued to come from the Apostles, vpon the voyce of perpetuall Tradition, yet because they are not beleeued thus to descend by the said voyce, as vpon the onely or principall ground, therefore it is inconsequent to inferre, our resolution that our faith is Apo­stolicall, stayeth lastly and finally vpon Tradition.

If the Argument be reduced to a Categoricall forme, the de­fect B will easily appeare:

In this Argument the Maior proposition is false, for that is not alwayes the last ground of Resolution, vpon whose voyce and testimony we doe first of all, or prioritate or dinis, vel temporis, in priority of time, or order, beleeue things: because there may be other grounds of beleefe, equall, or of greater authoritie than the first voyce; and the first voyce vpon which we beleeue [...]. d. [...]. Cred. c. 16. [...] sapienti quis [...] sed id nunc [...] vt sapientes [...]. [...] d. Sacr. Doct. & Deo. l. 1. tr. 2. c. 1. [...] d. fid. form. Disp. 3. Sect. 12. n. 13. [...] potest ex humana authoritate generari quandam fidem humanam, praeuiam ad fidem infusam, non tanquam fundamentum vel rationem formalem eius, sed tanquá E conditionem, & applicationem obiecti. p. 135., may be only an introduction or motiue of credibility. For example: One may beleeue that Moses or the Prophets were the Au­thors D of the Scriptures of the old Testament, vpon the voyce and testimony of the Iewes, yet this testimony is not the last ground of resolution, &c. One may beleeue vpon the testimony of Iose­phus, Joseph. Antiq. Iud. l. 18. c. 4. [...]. That Iesus Christ was a wise man, yea more than a man, and that hee wrought many great miracles, and was crucified, and appeared againe the third day aliue, and was honoured by Iewes and Gentiles: yet this voyce and Testimony of Iosephus is not the finall ground of faiths resolution. [Page 14] If [...] bee taken to these [...], that they proceed A [...] from humane [...], whereas the voyce of [...] is [...]; I [...] ere two things.

First, that the [...] and [...] of faith, is not alwayes made into that [...], vpon whose voyce and [...] [...] as appeareth by S ^t. Iohn Baptist, for [...] vpon his voyce and [...], which did not finally and principally [...] their [...] his [...], but into the voyce of Christ him­selfe, Iohn 5. 33, 36.

Secondly, although the vocall Tradition of the Apostles B themselues, concerning the Scriptures of the new Testament, when they deliuered or commended the same Euseb. Eccles. Hist. l. 3. c. 21. Cum trium Euangelista­rum Scripta ad san­ctos iam, & ad ip­sum quoque Iohan­ne [...] pro­basse quidem [...], & veritatis illis de­disse testimonium. to their imme­diate hearers, was totally and perfectly diuine, both in regard of the matter testified, and in respect of their owne persons who were witnesses immediatly sent and inspired of God; yet the subsequent History, and report of this former, made by those which were remote from the Apostles age, is not simply and per­fectly diuine, but onely in part, for when it faithfully reporteth that which the Apostles said and did, it is diuine in regard of the matter and thing testified, but is humane Anton. Perez. Pentateuch. Fid. vol. 3. Dub. 10. c. 9. Comparatione buius (Scripturae) testimo­nium Ecclesiae dici quodammodo potest testimonium bomi­num vtpote quod in rigore sermonis non obtineat [...] & [...] ad rationem verbi Dei. pag 55. col. 2. in regard of the quality C of the witnesses, and the manner of testification, because these suc­ceeding witnesses were not equall in verity to the holy Apostles, [...] free from possibility of errour, nor such as immediatly heard the Apostles. Hereupon Aquinas himselfe holdeth, [...]. l. 12. c. 3. [...] that our faith doth onely rest vpon those reuelations which the Authours of the holy Scriptures published: and Durand [...] with many other Schoole­men [...] saith, that the faith which is grounded vpon the approba­tion of the Church is onely acquisite. [...]. 22. q. 1. Disput. 2. Dub. 3. Fides acquisita semper resoluitur in [...] bumanum. Canus. loc. l. 2. c. 8. [...] per fidem acquisitam ita [...] quin formidemus eum possevel [...] vel [...]. [...]. Picus Mirandul. Theorem. 3. [...] sub esse potest [...] non [...], Deo [...], sed E [...]. And if this be true, then because the credit of vnwritten Traditions, dependeth in respect of vs, vpon the authority of the Church since the Apostles, D (which Churches voyce being not formally diuine, can of it selfe onely produce acquisite faith) the last and finall resolution of di­uine faith, cannot bee made into the voyce of Tradition vnwrit­ten. And thus much concerning the sequel of the Maior pro­position.

But if the Iesuite, when he saith, the Scriptures of the new Testa­ment are beleeued to come from the Apostles, vpon the voyce of perpetu­all Tradition vnwritten, doe means that the said Scriptures are beleeued [Page 15] to [...] from the Apostles, vpon the voyce of vnwritten Tradition, A [...], then the assumption is false: for they are [...] to come from the Apostles by written Tradition, as well as by vnwritten, and more principally vpon the voyce of the A­postles, speaking in and by their Scriptures, than vpon the onely testimony of vnwritten Tradition.

It is vsuall and common for one man to certifie another, of such matters as he desireth he should know, by an Epistle or wri­ting: So likewise the holy Apostles desiring [...] that all the world, for whose instruction they wrote, should know that these Scrip­tures are their worke, haue declared the same by their owne testi­monie, B recorded in those bookes. S ^t. Iohn affirmes, that hee is the Author of his Gospell, and of the Reuelation, Iohn 21, 24. Reuel. 1, 4. S ^t. Paul and other Apostles doe the like concerning the Epistles, Rom. 1, 1. 2. Cor. 10, 10. Collos. 4. 18. 1. Pet. 1, 1. Iam. 1, 1. Iude v. 1. And that the holy Apostles and Euangelists doe speake vnto people of all ages by their bookes and writings, is affirmed by the Fathers: S ^t. August. saith, [...] Ipsum Paulum audi, &c. Heare thou, euen Paul himselfe. S ^t. Chrysost. [...] If thou desirest, thou mayest heare Paul, Peter, Iohn, and the whole company of the Prophets speaking vnto thee, take the bookes of these blessed ones into thine hands, reade their C Scriptures, and thou mayest heare, not Paul onely, but euen Pauls Lord speaking vnto thee by Pauls mouth.

But it is obiected against this, by Bellarmine and others, [...] that counterfeit Authours may speake in the name and person of the Apostles; to wit, a Bastard Hereticke, in the name of S ^t. Bartho­lomew, or S ^t. Peter, &c.

I answere with S ^t. Augustine, [...] E the same may be done in all hu­mane, and ecclesiasticall writings, and yet sufficient meanes are found, partly in the History of times, partly in the writings of euery Authour, to confute Impostors. And concerning the holy D Scriptures, wee haue two meanes to know their Authours: the one Ecclesiasticall, to wit, the perpetuall History of the Church, since the Apostles departure, [...] whereby is produced a morall persuasion and credibilitie, than which none can bee greater in that kinde, by reason of the antiquity, number, consent, and sanctitie of the witnesses which testifie this: the other totally di­uine, [...] to wit, the matter, and forme of Doctrine contained in the [Page 16] [...] the said bookes to be [...] A and if they be [...] can speake in them. And that [...] within those bookes, is affirmed by the [...] [...] Among which [...] [...] are taken from the in­ternall 1. [...]. Prol. ar. 2. Ibid. Giner. pa. 9. [...]. ab Incarnat. Lect. 3. p. 20. Polla. sup. Scot. q. 2. dis­curs. 2. p. 14. matter and maiesty of the bookes; and Gregory Valence [...] [...] contained in the same Scripture, &c. And [...] [...] [...], that the [...] of God is seene by faith in the holy [...] [...] faith, The Scripture is a faire [...] [...]. [...]. [...] [...] You haue before B [...], 2. Pet. 1. 19. And [...] August. [...] C [...]. And therefore, as a [...] or [...] others, by the same light or [...] manifests it selfe [...]: so the holy Scripture inlightning the Church, demonstrates his owne [...] and vertue. And thus [...] we be first directed and holpen by vnwritten Tradition to know the Scriptures, yet the Tradition of the present Church, is [...] the onely last and principall ground whereunto we resolue [...].

If the Iesuits Argument be retorted vpon himselfe, it will demonstrate, that our Faith is finally resolued into holy Scrip­ture, D and not into vnwritten Tradition [...] E; for inuerting [...] order of the [...], and retaining the matter, I argue as followeth.

If the maine and [...] points of Faith are [...] to be [...], because of the [...] of perpetuall Tradition [Page 17] vnwritten, and [...] Tradition vnwritten is beleeued to A be Apostolicall, because of the authoritie of the Scripture; then our resolution, that our Faith is Apostolicall, resteth finally vp­on the Scripture.

But the Antecedent is true, Ergo &c.

The Assumption is confirmed two waies.

First, by the practise of Papals which confirme their doctrine of Tradition, by testimonies of Scripture, alledging, 2. Thess. 2. 15. 1. Tim. 6. 20. & 2. Tim. 1. 16.

Secondly, because the credit of Tradition, in respect of vs, dependeth vpon the authoritie of the Church, and the authori­tie B of the Church vpon the Scriptures.

Both these assertions are maintained by the Papals. First, They say that the authoritie of Tradition, in respect of vs, de­pendeth vpon the Church. Gretsar. Si [...] vnde cognoscat propositionem Ec­clesiae esse infalli­bilem, dicat se, &c. credere fide infalli­bili, tùm ob reuela­tionem Scripturae testimonium per­hibentis Ecclesiae, &c. def. Bellarm. d. verbo Dei, lib. 4. cap. 9. Vitus miletus cont. [...]. loc. 27. Error. 615. Se­condly, They confirme the Churches authoritie by the Scrip­tures, 1. Tim. 3.15. Math. 18.17. Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13, 14. Gregorie Valence tom. 3. disput. 1. punct. 1. pa. 40. & ibid. punct. 7. pa. 327. Dri­edo. Dried. d. Ec­cles. Dcgm. l. 4. part. 3. c. 4. De Ecclesia [...] nùnc est intel­ligendo eam vt praecisam & ab­stractam seu nu­dam, &c. diceret Aug. Ego huius Ec­clesiae homines non agnoscerem esse Ecclesiam Chri­sti, nisi doceret me [...] Euangelistarum authoritas. fol. 239. d. Eccles. dogm. li, 2. c. 3. pa. 59. Stapleton [...]. Tripl. c. 15. [...] vt Ecclesiae credamus, nòn [...] authoritate [...] & [...] ( [...] in genere causae [...]) huius fidei no­strae causa: sed partìm ex Scripturis [...] ad Ecclesiae [...], partìm ex ipso fi­dei Symbolo &c. triplic. c. 15. pa. 179. And thus will they nill they, they are compelled to make holie C Scripture the last and finall resolution of Faith: for if we be­leeue Tradition vpon the authoritie of the Church, and the Churches authoritie for the Scripture, then we must of [...] make the Scripture our last and finall resolution of [...] which is the Tenet of the Fathers. S. Chris. sup. Psal. 95. Si quid dicitur absque Scriptura, auditorum cogitatio [...], [...] annuens, nunc [...], & [...], vt [...], interdùm vt [...], [...] vbi è Scriptura diui­nae vocis prodijt testimonium, & loquentis sermonem, & [...]. August. sup. Psalm. 67. Dormire intèr medios cleros est in [...] Testamenti authoritate [...], vt quandò aliquid ex hijs [...]. When any thing is deliuered without the warrant of Scripture, the hearers thought staggereth, sometimes consenting, and then againe [...], and another while reiecting the same as [...], &c. but when the te­stimonie of Diuine Voice is deliuered out of the Scripture, it both con­firmeth the saying of the Speaker, and mind of the Hearer. D

IESVIT. E

So it is, that the Scripture of the New Testament [...] not be prooued to haue beene deliuered vnto the Church by the Apostles, but by perpetuall Tradition vnderwritten, [Page 18] conserued in the Church succeeding the Apostles: for what A other proofe can be imagined, except one would prooue it by the titles of the Bookes, which were absurd, seeing doubt may be made, Whether those titles were set on the Bookes by the Apostles themselues; of which doubt Tradition only can re­solue vs. Besides, the Gospell of S. Marke, and S. Luke, and also the Acts of the Apostles were not written by any Apostles, but were by their liuely voice and suffrages recommended vnto Christians as sacred, otherwise (as also M ^r. Bilson B noteth) they should neuer haue obtained such eminent autho­ritie in the Church, neither should they be now so esteemed, but vpon the supposall of Apostolicall approbation: but how shall we know the Apostles saw these writings, and recom­mended the same vnto Christian Chnrches, but by Tra­dition?

ANSVVER.

The point which the Aduersarie endeauors to prooue, is, That C the Scriptures of the New Testament are beleeued, by diuine Faith, to come from the Apostles, only and principally by the testimonie of perpetuall Tradition vnwritten: he endeauoreth to performe this by disproouing other meanes, to wit, the titles of the Bookes, &c.

The summe of his argument is,

I answere: It followeth not that Tradition vnwritten is the Oreg. Arimin. 1. d. z. q. 1. Ar. 4. Merè credendū est, quod contenta in sa­cra Scriptura suc­runt à Christo re­uclata. Per nullam enim viam hoc sci­mus, nisi quia hoc credit Ecclesia, & sic audiuimus à patribus nostris, & sic in praedicta Scriptura [...]. only or principall ground whereupon we beleeue the Scriptures of the New Testament to be Apostolicall, although the titles of the Bookes alone are not so; for besides the externall Titles, E there be three other grounds, arguing the said Books to be Apo­stolicall.

[Page 19] First, the inward Subscription (1. Corinth. 16.21. and In­scription, A [...]. 1. Rom. 1. 1.) of many of these Bookes, and namely of all Saint Pauls Epistles (except to the Hebrews Chrysoft. sup. Rom. Hom. 1. Quod autèm in Epistola quae ad Hebraeos est hunc Epistola­ré adiungendi no­minis modum non seruauit singulari factum est pruden­dentia. Quando­quidem enim He­braei non erant a­mico erga paulum animo, ne statim à principio nomen illius audientes, to­ti Epistolae aditum praecluderent, sa­pientèr illi visum est suppresso autho­ris nomine illorum allicere auditum.) together with the Reuelations of Saint Iohn, and the other Canonicall Epistles.

Secondly, In diuers Bookes there is found apparant testimonie, within the same, that the Apostles were the Authors, Iohn 21. 24. 1. Cor. 15. 10. 1. Tim. 1. 13. Renel. 1. 4.

Thirdly, In those Bookes which want such inward inscription or testimonie, the matter and forme of the Bookes, their harmo­nie B with the Scriptures of the Old Testament, and with those other of the New Testament, which haue inscription, and the voice of the holy Ghost speaking in them Aug. Epist. 3. quasi amicus fami­liaris sine fuco ad cor loquitur docto­rū & indoctorum. Serranus, Appar. ad fid. Catholic. pa. 51. Ea vis est Scriptu­rae à Deo inspira­tae, vt Dei majestas in ca eluceat. Etpa. 55. Lux sua se vi, ipsam prodit., will prooue them to be diuine: and if they be diuine, then it followeth, that they are Apostolicall (either by the Apostles owne writing, or ap­probation) because the Church of the New Testament is buil­ded vpon the foundation of the Apostles, Eph. 2. 20. and our Sauiour himselfe did appoint their Doctrine and Ministerie to be the prime rule of Faith, Math. 28. 20. Luc. 10. 16. & c. 24. 48, 49. And whosoeuer in their daies (by preaching, or writing) in­structed C the Church, must receiue approbation from them Aug. c. Faust. li. 28. c. 4. [...]. A­polog. Aug. Ep. 11. Ireneus lib. 3. prol. Prosola vera & vi­uifica fide quam ab Apostolis Ecclesiae accepit & distribu­it filijs suis. Etenim Dominus [...] dedit Apostolis suis potestatem Euan­gelij per quos veritatem hoc est filij doctrinam [...], &c. 228., Gal­lath. 2. 2. 9.

The titles prefixed before the Bookes of the New Testament, being ioined with these three grounds formerly expressed, are sufficient to prooue, that the holy Apostles were the Authors, or Approuers of all the Scriptures of the New Testament: and if these (with other humane motiues of credibilitie) be not, the same doubt which is made concerning them, may with greater probabilitie be made concerning vnwritten Traditions Greg. Val. Analis. fid. li. 5 c. 8. Read be­fore pag. 28.. And secluding the authoritie of the Scripture it selfe, no other diuine D testimonie can be produced, to satisfie them which are doubt­full, touching the veritie of vnwritten Tradition, and the autho­ritie of the present Church. If one will not beleeue the Scrip­tures, because of the authoritie of God [...]. d. Lazaro. hom. 4. [...] E. [...] com. Theol. li. 1. tr. 7. ca. 2. n. 3. itaque qui de hoc Canone [...], excludendus à Theologia, quià aberrat ab ostio, ficut ij qui in scientijs negant principia. speaking in them, nei­ther will he beleeue the present Church consisting of persons, in whom is possibilitie of error.

IESVIT. A

For we may distinguish three properties of the Doctrine of Faith, to wit, to be true, to be reuealed of God, to be prea­ched and deliuered by the Apostles. The highest ground by which I am persuaded and resolued that my Faith is true, is the authoritie of God reuealing it; the highest ground on which I am resolued that my Faith is reuealed, is the credit and authoritie of Christ Iesus and his Apostles, who deliuered B the same as diuine and sacred; but the highest ground that mooueth me to beleeue that my Faith was preached by the Apostles, is the perpetuall Tradition of the Church succee­ding the Apostles, that so teacheth me.

ANSVVER.

The last part of the former distinction is denied. The highest ground meaning diuine, which mooueth vs to beleeue that the C doctrine of Faith was preached by the Apostles, is not the perpe­tuall Tradition of the Church succeeding the Apostles, but the holy Scripture of the New Testament; for the perpetuall Tra­dition of the Church succeeding the Apostles is beleeued, be­cause of the authoritie of the said Church: and whosoeuer be­leeueth that Tradition or Testimonie, must first of all know the Church to be an infallible witnesse. But the word of God only (the greater and most worthie part whereof, by our Aduersaries confession, is contained in the Scriptures [...]. d. Vet­bo Dei l. 1. c. 2. Cum sacra Scriptura re­gula credendi cer­tissima [...] fit. Lib. 4. c. 11. Dico illa omnia scripta esse ab Apostolis quae sunt omnibus necessaria & quae ipsi palam omnibus vulgo praedicanetunt. Idem. Clarissima testimonia Scripturae anteponenda sunt omnibus conciliorum [...].) giueth authoritie to the Church, for the Church is founded vpon the word of God, D Eph. 2.20. and the word of God is the immortall seed which produceth and giueth being to the Church Gregor. Valenc. tom. 3. q. 1. disp. 1. punct. 7. pa. 194. Aug. li. d. pastor. c. 13. & Ep. 48. & Epist. 166. & d. vnit. Ec­clesiae c. 3. & 4 & 16. [...]. Imperf. Math. [...]. 49. Qui [...] quae sit vera Ecclesia, vnde cognoscat [...] per Scripturas. Iren. li. 3. c. 11. [...]. sum. li. 3. tr. 3. ca. 3. Si queritur quare credis hoc vel il­lud, non est [...] vnica responsio, scilicet, quia ita docet prima veritas. Fides enim soli primae veritati nititur, nec [...] medium ad probandum aliquem articulum. [...]. d. vnit. Eccles. c. 16. Remotis ergo omnibus talibus, Ecclesiam suam demonstrent si possunt, non in sermonibus & rumoribus Afrorum, non in Concilijs [...], non in literis [...] disputatorum, non in signis & prodigijs fallacibus, quia [...] contrà ista ver­bo [...] & [...] redditi [...], sed in praescripto legis, in Prophetarum praedictis, in Psalmorum can­tibus, E in ipsius pastoris vocibus, in [...] & [...], hoc est in omnibus Canonicis [...] librorum [...]. Ibid. [...] vtrum ipsi: Ecclesiam reneant, non [...], catio­nicis libris ostendant, quià nec nos proptereà dicimus nobis credere oportere quòd in Ecclesia Christi sumus, quià ipsam quam tenemus commendauit Mileuitanus Optatus, vel Mediolanensis [...] vel [...] nostrae communionis Episcopi, aut quià [...] Collegarum concilijs, ipsa praedicata est, aut quià per totum [...] in locis sanctis quae frequentat nostra communio tanta mirabilia vel exauditionum vel sanitatum fiunt., Luc. 8.11. Ia. 1.18. [Page 21] [...] A [...] [...] [...] [...] it selfe vpon the Apostles [...] word and Doctrine, which is principally contained in the Scripture.

[...].

Into this principle S ^t. Augustine resolued his faith a­gainst B the [...] (who pretended the Scriptures were cor­rupted) confuting them by Tradition of the Church, affirming that he would not beleeue the Gospell, did not the authority of the Catholike Church induce him, assigning this as the last stay of his resolution in this point: for though he beleeued the Go­spel to [...] souer aignely certaine and true, vpon the authority of God [...] it, and that it was reuealed of God, vpon the authority of the Apostles who as sacred preached it: yet C that this Gospel (as we haue it) came incorrupt from the A­postles, he could haue no stronger or more excellent [...], than the testimony of the present Church descended by conti­nued succession of Bishops from the Apostles, neither can we imagine any higher, except we flye to particular and to priuate reuelation, which is absurd.

ANSWER. D

S ^t. Augustines words, C. Epist. Manichei. c. 4. Si inuenires a­liquem qui Euan­gelio nondum cre­dit quid [...] di­centi tibi non cre­do: ego vero non crederem nisi me [...] commoueret [...]. doe not proue, that after he was fully conuerted, he resolued his faith finally and principally into the authority of the Church, succeeding the Apostles.

First, S ^t. Augustine resolued his faith finally and principally, into that which he knew to be infallible and totally diuine. But he was not so persuaded of the Church, succeeding the Apostles, because he thought it possible for the principall members of that Church to [...], and be deceiued [...]. c. Crescon. l. 2. c. 21. Ecclesia­stici Iudices sicut homines [...], [...]., and he prefers the authority of the Scriptures, before the iudgement of Councels and Fa­thers E [...] [...] [...] &c. Et per concilia licere [...] emendari, &c., (in which some of our aduersaries place the [...] [Page 22] of Ecclesiasticall infallibility.) Moreouer it appeareth by Saint A Augustine in the second chapter of this Booke, that he did not make the authority of the Church, the highest ground of resolu­tion of his faith: for he saith that manifest verity is to be preferred before all other tbings, whereby he was held in the Catholike Church Aug. c. Ep. Ma­nich. c. 4. Multa sunt alia, quae in eius graemio me justissime teneant. Tenet consensio populorum, at (que) gentium [...] authoritas, miraculis inchoata, charitate aucta vetustate firmata, &c. apud vos vero nihil est horum, &c. sola personat veritatis pollicitatio. Quae quidem si tàm manifesta monstra­tur vt in dubium venire non possit preponenda est [...] illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneor.: but that whose authority must be preferred before all other things, is the highest ground of faiths resolution.

Secondly, because S ^t. Augustines meaning in this place is ob­scure B and dubious, our aduersaries cannot conclude certainely from hence. 1. Some Schoolemen hold that he speaketh of ac­quisite or Historicall Faith, which is an introductiō to Scot. 3. d. 23. q. 1. Certum est quod in nobis est fides [...] cre­debilium acquifita: quod patet per Aug. c. fundament. Manich, qui dicit, quod non crederet Euang. nisi crede­ret Ecclesiae Ca­tholicae approban­ti & authorizanti libros illos, &c. Gabr. 3. d. 23. q. 2. ar. 2. c. 1. infused faith, and then it is inconsequent to argue, that because Saint Augustine at his first conuersion, and being a Nouice in Faith, did ground his Historicall faith vpon the authority of the Church, therefore the authority of the Church is vniuersally, and after men are conuerted, the highest ground of resolution. Most men are at first induced by externall motiues, to giue credit to the Scriptures, as C the people of Samaria Canus loc. l. 2. c. 8. Negotium Au­gustino erat cum Manichaeis, qui abs (que) controuersia, suo [...] Euan­gelio credi vole­bant & Manich. fi­dem adstruere. Ro­gat [...] August. ecquid [...] sint si in hominem incidant qui non Euangelio quidem credat, quoue genere persuasionis sint eum in [...] sententiam adducturi, certe se affirmat non aliter potuisse adduci vt [...], quam Ecclesiae authoritate victum. Non itaque docet fundatam efse Euangelij fidem in Ecclesiae authoritate, verum simpliciter [...] efse certam viam qua Infideles siue Nouitij, in fide ad Sacros Libros [...], nisi Catholicae Ecclesiae vnum eundem (que) consensum. pa. 35. Al. Hal. 3. q. 78. memb. 2. Ratio & fides quae est ex ratione, se [...] ad fidem gratuitam, ficut preambula dispositio ad formam. Disponit enim animam ad receptionem luminis, quo assentit primae veritati propter se, sed per modum naturae non gratiae, & dicitur ipsum in [...] seta [...] & tunc ratio [...] humana, quando ei non innititur fides introducta. were by the testimony of the woman, to beleeue that Christ was a Prophet, Ioh. 4.42. Altisiodor. summa in prolog. & li. 3. tr. 3.9.4. But as these people afterwards beleeued, because of Christs owne words, so they which by the Churches authority are first persuaded to heare and reade the doctrine of the Scriptures, afterwards by the light of grace doe perceiue the diuine Maiestie, wisedome, efficacie, and verity of the said do­ctrine, and resolue their faith into the diuine authority of the ho­ly Ghost, manifesting himselfe in the Scripture, or doctrine of the Scripture. D

Secondly, other learned Papists hold that S ^t. Augustine, in the place obiected, by the authority of the Church, vnderstood the Church wherein the Apostles themselues gouerned, and of E which they were parts; [...]. dial. p. 1. l. 1. c. 4. Intelligi­tur solum. d. Eccle­sia quae [...] tem­pore [...]. Gabr. lect. [...]. can. missae D. [...]. in sent. l. 1. q. 1. ar. 3. fol. 50. & quest. vesper vtrum Petri Ecclesia fol. 278. & 294. Can. [...]. Colon. p. 69. Dried. d. [...]. Eccl. l. 4. c. 4. fol. 239. Th. Wald. to 1. l. 2. c. 21. Durand. 3. d. 24.4.1. [...]. d. [...]. vit. lect. 2. Coral. 7. Et hic ap­peritur [...] intelligendi [...] Aug. Euangelio non [...] nisi me authoritas Ecclesiae compulisset. [...] enim [...] pro congregatione fidelium, [...] qui Christum audierunt, [...] & ejus testes fuerunt. and then no meruaile if he resolued his [Page 23] faith into the authority of the Church, because in this notion the A Church comprehends the Colledge of the Apostles, whose te­stimony concerning the Scripture was altogether Diuine. And although S ^t. Augustine conioyneth the authority of the latter Church with the former, wherein were the Apostles, yet he did not equally, and with the same manner of beleeuing ground his faith vpon both: for when a Preacher deliuereth Apostolicall doctrine, we beleeue both the Preacher and the Doctrine, and we could not haue knowne the doctrine, but by the Preacher; yet we resolue not our faith, finally and principally into the authority of the Preacher, Turrian. 22. disp. 2. dub. 4. Non solū inter Gentiles, sed etiam inter Christianos, ante­quā quis adhibeat fidem humanā, te­stimonio Ecclesiae, fidem adhibit Con­cionatori, vel pa­rocho, &c. but into the diuine verity it selfe preached by him. B Euery thing by which we are mooued to beleeue, and without whose authority we should not haue beleeued, is not the princi­pall obiect whereunto diuine faith is finally resolued, as appea­reth by miracles, preaching, instruction of Parents, &c.

IESVIT.

Vpon the former place of Saint Augustine, the Ie­suit inferreth: That because we haue no stronger or more excellent proofe than the testimonie of the present Churcb C descended by continuall succession of Bishops from the Apo­stles, to confirme that the Gospell, as wee haue it, came in­corrupt from the Apostles, therefore Saint Augustine re­solued his faith, that it was Apostolicall, finally and princi­pally into the authority of the present Church.

ANSWER.

Saint Augustine deliuers not the former, and therfore the Iesuit cannot inferre the latter: we haue indeed no stronger or more ex­cellent D morall proofe Occbam. dial. part. 3. tr. 1. l. 3. c. 23. [...] possibi­lis & sufficiens, quamuis non sit in­fallibilis., than the perpetual testimony of the Church succeeding the Apostles: but we haue a stronger and more excel­lent diuine proofe, to wit, the Prophesie of Christ and his Apostles, concerning the perpetuall preseruation of the Gospell vnto the end of the world: also that the Aposcolical Scriptures were once incorrupt, is manifest August. d. vtilit. cred. c. 3. Voluit nescio quos cor­ruptores [...] librorum &c. Aug. d. [...]. cred. c. 3. [...] cóuinci po­test [...] Scrip­turas esse falsatas, &c., because they were giuen by diuine inspira­tion. And it is apparant that they were not afterwards corrupted, because no authority or sufficient Argument can be produced to procue them in whole, or in part, to haue been corrupted Aug. Epist. 48. Noque [...] integritas atque notitia literarum vnius quamlibet illustris Episcopi custodiri quema [...] Scriptura Canonica [...] linguarum [...] & ordine & successione cele­branonis Ecclesiastica custoditur, &c. Euseb. Hist. Eccles. l. 3.10. [...]..

Now that which being once knowne by diuine testimony to E haue beene incorrupt, cannot be prooued afterwards to haue been [Page 24] corrupted, doth by diuine testimony appeare to be incorrupt, be­cause A the first diuine testimony standeth still in force.

The Text of the Gospell was once knowne by diuine testi­monie to haue beene incorrupt, and it cannot be prooued to haue beene afterwards corrupted, Ergo,

It doth still appeare by diuine testimonie that the Text of the Gospell is incorrupt, and the resolution of Faith finally and prin­cipally resteth vpon that diuine testimonie, and not vpon the [...] of the present Church.

Lastly, the harmony & coherence of the Gospel, both with the Scriptures of the old Testament, Lu. 24.27. Act. 28.23. and of the B seuerall parts of the Gospel among themselues Scot. prol. 1. Sent. artic. 4. & ib. Damian Giner. pa. 9. Secunda via &c. Ioh. ab Incarna­tione 1. Sen. pro. q. 2. Lect. 3. pag. 20. de secundo &c. Bellar. d. ver. Dei li. 1. ca. 2. Read his words be­fore pag. 27. do manifest that the text of the new Testament is incorrupt. For if the same were corrupted in any part, corruption of words would produce alte­ration and difference of matter: but we find at this day a perfect harmonie of all the parts of the Gospell among themselues, and a perfect agreement of the same with the Scriptures of the old Te­stament: And from the same being an inward Argument, we may collect, that the text of the Gospell is at this day incorrupt.

Now hauing so many Arguments, besides the authoritie of the present Church, to prooue the integritie of the text of the C Gospell, we do not flie, neither is it necessarie to flie to priuat Spirit, or particular Reuelation for assurance: and that which our Aduersaries obiect against vs, saying, that we resolue our Faith and Religion into the priuat Spirit, is a foolish calumniation, for we resolue our Faith into the authoritie of Gods outward word (expoun­ded vnto vs by such helpes and meanes, as both the Scripture it selfe, and the antient Church require) as into the diuine motiue, and obiect of beleefe: and we affirme that his grace and holy Spirit, working by the outward meanes, inableth, draweth, and persuadeth the conscience to assent, Iohn 6.45. & 12.37, 38.1. Cor. D 2.12. &c. 12.3. & 2. Cor. 3.5. Act. 16.14. 1. Iohn 2.20.27. Esay 50.5. And herein we flie to no priuat Spirit or Reuelation, but maintaine the ordinarie assistance of diuine grace, according to the doctrine of the holy Scripture, and of S. Augustine Aug. Ep. [...]. tr. 2. Quicquid illarum Scripturarum est sonat Christū, sed si aures inueniat. Et apperuit eis sen­sum vt intellige­rint Scripturas, &c. Ibid. tr. 3. Interior Magister est qui docet, &c. pa. 741. &c. ep. Manich. c. 14. & ep. 107. & sup. Psal. 126. & d. prae­dest. Sanct. c. 8. & epist. 121. in fine., and the common Tenet of the Scholemen themselues Canus loc. li. 2. ca. 8. [...] 22. q. 1. art. 1. concl. 4. pa. 12. Quantum ad formalem rationem credendi pendet no­stra fides immediate a spirito Sancto illuminante mentes nostras. [...]. Tena. Com. Heb. 11. diff. 1. sect. 5. n. 26. In genere causae efficientis reducitur assensus nostrae fidei in nostrum intellectum, vt instrumentum vitale: In [...] verò internum, & habituale fidei vt in causam propriam & proximam, eleuantem intellectum nostrum ad [...] assensum. [...] d. ver. relig. li. 1. ca. 14. pag. 55. Gillius d. sacra Doctr. & essent. Dei & li. [...]. tract. 2. ca. 2. n. 4. [...]. Tripl. ca. 16. Ipsa diuini Spiritus in corde persuasio principalis causa & [...] resolutio fidei [...] est. [...]. E sup. 1. Corinth. ho. 7. Fideles per Spiritum experientiam affecuti, in absconditis virturem [...]. Aquin. 22. q. 6. at. 1. Capreol. 3. d. 24. q. vnic. pa. 177. Arragon. 22. q. 1. ar. 1. conclus. 6. (dicit) fideles credere res seu misteria fidei, quià Deus illa reuelauit. Quod autém Deus illa [...], immediatè credere, quià interins [...] per specialem [...], iuxtà illud: Qui credit in filium Dei habet restimonium Dei in se. Rich. [...]. 2. dict. 23. q. 2. [...]. 1. Fides non est ex auditu solo, sed principalitèr per [...] interiorem..

IESVITS 2. Argument. A

Secondly, J [...] that common vnlearned people (the greatest part of Christianitie) are persuaded about all sub­stantiall points of Faith, by Tradition, not by Scripture Com­mon vnlearned people haue true Christian Faith in all points necessarie and snfficient vnto Saluation, but they haue not Faith of all these maine and substantiall points grounded on Scripture, for they can neither vnderstand nor read any B Scripture, but translated into vulgar languages; and so if they beleeue vpon Scripture, they beleeue vpon Scripture translated into their mother tongue: but before that they can know that the Scriptures are truely translated euen in all substantiall points, that so they may build of it, they must first know what are the maine and substantiall points, and firmely beleeue them, so that they would not beleeue the Scrip­ture translated against them; for if they knew them not be­fore, C how can they know that Scriptures, in places that con­cerne them, are truely translated: if they do not before hand firmely beleeue them, why should they bee readie to allow tran­slations that agree with them, and to reiect the translations which differ from them? Ergo,

Originally, and before they know any Scripture, they haue Faith grounded on the Tradition of their ancestors, by the light whereof they are able to judge of the truth of Transla­tions D about such substantiall points as they firmely beleeue by Tradition.

ANSVVER.

The question which the Iesuit vndertaketh to prooue in his foure Arguments, is, that our resolution of Faith stayeth finally vpon the perpetuall Tradition of the Church, and not vpon the Scripture. E

His second argument to prooue this, is taken from the man­ner of vulgar and illiterate people in resoluing their Faith: For if these, being the greater part of Christianitie, do ground their Creed (touching all points of doctrine necessarie to Saluation) vpon Tradition of their ancestors, andif they haue true Faith before they know and vn­derstand [Page 26] the Scripture, then Christian Faith (at least-wise among the A greater part of Christians) is resolued finally into the Tradition of an­cestors, and not of the Scriptures.

And he prooueth that these vulgar people haue Faith touch­ing all points necessarie to Saluation, before they know the Scriptures, because it is impossible for them to read or vnderstand Scripture vntill it be translated into their mother tongue: and they are not able to iudge of translations, or know them to be true, vnlesse they first beleeue the principall points of Christian Faith, and by comparing translations of Scripture with the said doctrines of Faith formerly by them beleeued, be inabled to B iudge of the Truth of Translations.

This Paralogisme hath certaine ambiguous or equiuocall termes which must be distinguished, and then I will applie my answer.

First, the terme of Scripture may be taken for the letter and text of the Scripture, together with the names of the seueral Bookes, Authors, and Sections: and secondly it may signifie the doctrine of the Scripture, without mention of the particular Bookes, Iohn 7.38. Rom. 1, 2, 3, 4.

Secondly, Resolution of Faith, is either distinct and explicite Aquinas 3. d. 25. q. 2. [...]. 3. d. 25. q. 3. Gabr. 3. d. 25. q. vnit. No­tab. 2. Occham Dial. part. 2. tract. 1. c. 10. Bannes, Lorca, Tur­rian Malder. 22. q. 2. art. 5. Mych. Me­dina d. recta in Deum fid. li. 4. c. 4. & ca. 10., C wherein beleeuers are able to declare the seueral reasons of their Faith, and to proceed from one reason of beleeuing to another, vntill they ascend by degrees to the principall ground: or else Implicit and Vertuall Ioh. d. Colon. Ex Scoto. Cognos­cere confuse, est cognoscere secun­dum quod expri­mitur per nomen, vel in suo vniuer­sali tantùm. Cog­noscere distinctè, est cognoscete se­cundum quod ex­primitur per defi­nitionem, vel per propria sua princi­pia., wherein beleeuers cannot proceed distinct ly, and with explication of the seuerall reasons and grounds of Faith, but resting themselues vpon one prime and radicall ground, are readie, for the authoritie of the same, to beleeue all other particular reasons and verities of Faith, when they are de­clared vnto them.

Thirdly, Tradition may signifie either doctrine of Faith, and D good manners, not contained or written in holy Scripture, ex­pressely or inuoluedly; or else the same doctrine which is found in holy Scripture, deliuered by Ancestors or Teachers by word of mouth.

These distinctions premised, I answer the obiection, 1. Gran­ting that some vulgar people, and nouices in Faith Ruffin. Eccles. Hist. 1. li. c. 9. &c. 10. Christum esse De­um Dej summi fili­um qui salutem hanc contulerit, docet, eumquè quem authorem suae sciret esse incollumitatis & vitae inuocan­dum docet &c. Adest captiua edocet Deum Christum supplicandi ritum venerandiquè modum &c. [...]. li. 3. c. 4., may at­taine beleefe concerning such verities of Christian Doctrine as are absolutely necessarie to Saluation, by the Tradition of their Ancestors and Teachers, without distinct and explicit resoluing their Faith into the Text of holy Scripture, or the particular E Bookes or Sections thereof. But withall I deny, that they can [Page 27] haue sauing Faith, without resoluing the same into the doctrine A of the Scriptures Card. Camerac. Vesper. recōmend. s. Script. Audite quaeso qualitèr su­per sacrae Scriptu­rae fundamentum [...] domus ad­dificatur & insh ui­tur omnis Ecclesiae caetus, omnis sta­tus, omnis gradus, omnis sexus.. For example, It is an Article of Faith ne­cessarie to be beleeued by all Christians of riper yeres, that Iesus Christ is the [...] of the World, and the same Article is re­uealed and taught in many Texts of holy Scripture. If a simple rurall person beleeue this Article taught him by his parents and other teachers, he beleeueth the Doctrine of the Scripture, and vertually grounds his Faith vpon the Scripture, although hee know not the Bookes of the Scripture, or the particular senten­ces contained in the same. A man which drinketh water flow­ing B from a fountaine, or seeth day light, although he haue no di­stinct knowledge of the fountaine, or sight of the Sunne, which is the cause of light, yet hee receiueth water mediatly from the fountaine it selfe, and his light principally from the Sunne; so likewise rude and illiterate Christians, reape the benefit and fruit of the Scriptures, and vertually ground their Faith vpon them, although they be not able distinctly to looke into them, or to resolue their Faith into the seuerall parts and testimonies con­tained in them Gregor. [...]. li. 30. ca. 12. Iu­menta escam accipiunt dum sacrae Scripturae pabulo, mentes dudum brutae satiuntur. August. sup. Psal. 8. Ex C ore infantium & lactantium perfecisti laudem, vt a fide Scripturarum inciperent, qui cupiunt ad tuae Magnificen­tiae notitiam peruenire..

OBIECTION.

Vulgar andilliterate persons do not know or vnderstand the Scriptures, neither can they be certaine by their owne knowledge, that the same are truely translated in such points as the yare bound to beleeue, therefore they cannot ground their Faith finally and lastly vpon the Scriptures. D

ANSVVER.

1. If this Obiection were good, vulgar people could not ground their diuine Faith vpon Tradition, because they haue not distinct knowledge of Tradition, or of the qualitie or deriuati­on thereof.

Therefore I distinguish of Knowledge out of Bonauenture, [...]. 3. d. 25. q. 3. Cogni­tio potest scire ali­quid in vniuersa­li, & ita [...] quòd non sciat in particulari & ità scire vno modo, & ignorare alio mo­do. [...] potest esse aliquid duplicitur [...] se, vel in alio. Alexander Hall 3. q. 82. m. 4. ar. [...] & 2. that the same is two fold, to wit, either confused and generall, or distinct and speciall, and a thing may be knowne two waies, either in it selfe, or in another. If vulgar and illiterate people could know E and vnderstand the Scriptures, neither confusedly, nor distinctly, neither in themselues, nor in any other thing, then it were im­possible [Page 28] that they should resolue their Faith into them: but if A they may know them by teaching of others, and vnderstand the Doctrine of the Scriptures to be diuine by the light of heauenly veritie resplendent in the same [...]. [...]. tom. 3. sup. Thom. dip. 1. punct. 7. pag. 320. [...] cogni­tio illa sacris ex­pressa literis quam Deus [...] Scriptoribus indi­dit, quamque per illos voluit caeteris scripto patefieri, velut sonorú quod­dam verbum Dei est, quo is, videli­cet, conceptum ae­ternae mentis suae, notitiamque veris­simam, hominibus eloquitur at (que) ma­nifestat., and by the inward testimonie of the holy Spirit co-working with that Doctrine Chrys. sup. 1. Cor. hom. 7. Fideles per [...] assecuti, in absconditis vit­tutem intuentur. Arrag. 2. 2. q. 1. at. 1. c. 6. Fideles cre­dunt res seu miste­ria fidei, quià De­us illa reuelauit. Quod autèm Deus illa reuelauerit, im­mediate credunt, quià interius mo­uentur per specia­lem instinctú, iux­ta illud: Qui D cre­dit in filium Dei habet testimonium Dei in se, 2. Ioh. 5.10., then it is possible for them to resolue their Faith into the Scripture, be­cause they which actually resolue their Faith into the Doctrine of the Scripture, doe virtually and mediatly resolue the same into the verie Scripture, euen as he that actually beleeueth the kings proclamation, doth virtually beleeue the kings authoritie, although he know the king or his authoritie confusedly, and in B generall only.

The Text of holy Scripture, and the distinct sayings and sen­tences thereof, are the principall and finall externall ground, whereupon the whole bodie of the Church must ground their Faith Maclin. in 1. part. Tho. q. 1. ar. 9. Sacra Scriptu­ra omnibus hominibus communitèr proponitur. Aquin. 1. q. 1. artic. 9. Salmeron. tom. 1. prolog. 1. pag. 3. Merito igitur vnica nobis Scriptura commendata est, ad quam ab Ecclesia Catholica atquè Orthodoxa intellecta tanquam ad lapidem Lydium probandi sunt Spiritus doctrinaequè vniuersae, non secus atquè conclusiones per sua principia & actiones per proprium finem dignoscuntur.. But as there is a diuersitie of the members of the Church, 1. Cor. 12.20. so likewise there is a difference betweene them in the manner of resoluing Faith: for the stronger and firmer mem­bers are able to resolue their Faith distinctly into Scripture, but the weaker members whose Faith (as Bonauenture speaketh) is dimi­nuta Li. 3. d. 23. Alex. Hall 3. q. 82. m. 4. art. 1. Ad id de mensura &c., seeble and imperfect in respect of the distinct apprehen­sion C of the obiect of Faith Greg. Nyssen vita Mosis. Mons arduus & assensu difficilis, Theologia est, cujus vix multitudo ad radices ascen­dere potest. Aug. d. Trin. li. 14. ca. 1., are guided by the stronger, as chil­dren by a nurse. And these little ones are taught the truth of hea­uenly Doctrine, 1. By their parents Euseb. Hist. li. 6. c. 2. A patre attenta cura & cogitatione laboratum erat vt sacras literas vna combiberet. Fransc. Picus Theorem 23., or ecclesiasticall teachers, and they know the Scriptures to be truely translated, not by their owne skill, but by crediting others which are able to iudge. But being thus farre directed and persuaded by humane meanes Bannes 22. q. 1. ar. 1. dub. 4. Quemad assentimur primis principijs naturalibus ante notitiam explicitam terminorum, assensu quodam confuso, posteà verò habita [...] assentimur [...]: Ita antequàm infundatur nobis fides assentimur confusè articulis fidei per sidem [...] cis qui res sidei nobis proponunt credendas, posteà verò infundente Deo [...] jam [...] articulis distinctè & immediatè per ipsam sidem quae illos nobis ostendir., then the light of Gods word it selfe, by the power of Grace, persuadeth them as a diuine cause, to yeeld full assent to all such verities as are necessarie to be beleeued by them to saluation.

IESVIT. E

And this is that which Protestants must meane (if they haue any true meaning) when they say that the common [Page 29] people knew Scriptures to be truely translated by the light of A the Doctrine shining in true Translations, to wit, by the light of Doctrine receiued by Tradition of Ancestors, and thereup­on so firmely beleeue, as they will acknowledge Scriptures to be truely translated so farre, and no farther than they per­ceiue them consonant with the Faith deliuered vnto them, so that their last and finall resolution, for substantiall points, is not into Scripture truly translated into their vulgar tongue, but into Tradition, by the light whereof they discerne that B their Translations are true, more or lesse, according to the measure of knowledge they haue by Tradition.

ANSVVER.

The summe of the former obiection is, Vnlearned people are not able without the helpe and instruction of others to resolue their Faith into the Scriptures.

Therefore the Scripture is not the finall and greatest stay and ground of Faith. C

The Argument is denied: for as in Arts and Sciences, an vn­skilfull person cannot resolue his knowledge into the first prin­ciples, vntill he be taught the meaning of words and the sence of rules and precepts; but when he is taught, and vnderstandeth these, then he maketh resolution into the very first principles themselues: So likewise in beleeuing, the Obiect of Faith must be taught, the sence of the words, and matter declared, the grounds and reasons of credibilitie deliuered, and then the be­leeuer principally and immediately, settles the resolution of his Faith not vpon these helps and instruments which are only dis­pofitiue D and adiuuant causes Gillius, d. sa­cra Doctr. & d. Deo li. 1. Tract. 2. c. 2. In­strumentum quod­dam applicans ve­rum motiuum au­thoritatis Diuinae., but vpon the first principles them­selues expressely or deriuatiuely contained in holy Scripture.

And whereas D ^r. Ioh. Wh. is produced, affirming in the behalfe of all Protestants, that common people know Scriptures to be truely translated by the light of the Doctrine shining in true Translations.

First D ^r. Wh. in the place assigned, speaketh not in particular of common people, but of the true Church Way to the Church, pa. 24., in which are found many persons skilfull and learned.

h Lactantius d. vero cultu li. 6. cap. 21. Num igitur Deus & mentis & vocis & mentis [...] disertè lo­qui E non potest &c. Orig. Hom. 2. in Ierem. Cedren. in Ptolomeo Philadelpho. Rex pulchritudinem sacrae Scripturae videns &c. Secondly, he deliuereth other meanes (besides the light of E Doctrine) whereby the Church may know that Translations are true Ib. pag. 25., to wit, knowledge of Tongues, rules of Art, ministerie of the Word, to which I adde analogie of Faith, the testimonie of the [...] Church, and best learned in all ages. All these are helpes and [Page 30] instruments of right Translations, and when the Scriptures are A translated, they manifest their Author and sacred authoritie to such as in a right manner are conuersant in hearing or reading them. And this is not only the Tenet of Protestants, but, besides the antient Fathers, of moderate Papists themselues Serran. Apar. fid. pag. 55. Lux sua se vi ipsam prodit, & in oculis perspi­cacibus est efficax, lucernam qui prae­fert lucem quidem profert, at ipse non lucet, Lucis propri­um est lucere, ho­munis lucem pro­ferre, Ita Scripture lux per se lucet, ho­minum ministerio hominibus efficax &c. Et pa. 51. Ea certè vis est Scripturae à Deo inspiratae vt Dei Maiestas in ea eluceat.. There is (saieth one of them) such power in Scripture inspired of God, that the maiestie of God shineth in it. And this speech is the same in ef­fect with that of Constantine the great, reported by Theoderet, Grecè cap. 25. [...]. Hist. li. 1. ca. 24. Obseruans fidem diuinam, adipiscor lumen veritatis, sequens lumen veritatis, agnosco diuinam fidem, Marking the diuine Faith, I obtaine the light of Truth, and following the light of B Truth, I acknowledge diuine Faith, Quod est manifestatiuum alte­rius, simul potest manifestare seipsum, sicut lux quo actu prodit colores prodit seipsam, & cum ego quicquam loquor, eadem locutione, manifesto rem & loguelam (sayth Petrus de Lorca, 22. q. 1. ar. 1. disp. 4. n. 8.) That which is a manifestator of another thing, may together manifest it selfe, as appeareth inlight which doth manifest it selfe by the same act, whereby it sheweth colours: and by speech, for when I speake, by one and the same speech, I manifest the thing spoken, and mine owne speaking. The same is affirmed by Peresius Peres. Ajala d. Trad. part. 2. pag. 11., Canus Canus loc. li. 2. ca. 8., Fra. Petigianus Fra. Petig. 3. d. 23. pag. 17. Fides praestat assensum reuelationi, vt [...], non per a­liam reuelationem sed per seipsam., and C it is so farre from being vnlikely that the holy Scripture, when it is receiued, doth manifest it selfe, and his author, that it is most absurd to imagine the contrarie: for the Scripture is a diuine light, Psal. 119.105.2. Pet. 1.19.2. Cor. 4. 6. And it is the voice and speech of God Greg. li. 4. E­pist. 40. Scripturam sacram Epistolam quandam esse dici­mus omnipotentis Dei ad creaturam suam. [...]. 2. Thes. hom. 3. Aug. in Psal. 90. De illa ciuitate vnde peregrinamur literae nobis venerunt, ipsae sunt Scripturae., Luc. 1. 71. And the Iesuit cannot persuade any reasonable man to thinke that God almightie who bestowed tongues and voices vpon men, with abilitie so to expresse them­selues, that others might vnderstand their voice and know them by it, should speake himselfe in the Scripture so darkely and se­cretly, that people, when they are eleuated by grace, cannot dis­cerne D the same to be his word or voice. We know other crea­tures to be Gods worke by footsteps Aug. d. Trin. li. 6. c. 10. Alex. Hall. 3. q. 30. m. 2. ar. 3. § 2. Aquinas 1. q. 45. ar. 7. of his power, wisdome, and goodnesse appearing in them. The holy Scripture excelleth all created things in wisdome and perfection, it cannot therefore be destitute of signes and impressions to manifest vnto them which are inspired with grace vnto beleeuing, that God himselfe is the author.

IESVITS 3. Argument. A

If the mayne and substantiall points of Christian faith must be firmely knowne and beleeued, before we can securely reade and truely vnderstand the holy Scriptures: then the mayne and substantiall points of faith are beleeued, not vpon Scripture, but vpon Tradition precedently vnto Scripture.

This is cleare, because true faith is not built, but vpon Scripture truely vnderstood of man: neither can Scripture B vntill it be truely vnderstood of a man, bee to him a ground of assured persuasion: But we cannot vnderstand the Scrip­ture securely, and aright, before wee know the substantiall Articles of faith, which all are bound expresly to beleeue: the summarie comprehension of which point, is tearmed, The rule of faith, Tertul. de prescrip. c. 13.

ANSVVER. C

The sequel of the Maior is denied. It followeth not, that al­though the mayne and substantiall points of faith must be firme­ly knowne and beleeued, before we can securely reade and truely vnderstand the holy Scriptures, in the particular texts and secti­ons thereof: therefore the said substantiall points are not belee­ued vpon Scripture, but vpon Tradition vnwritten. [...] d. Ecclesia pa. 220. Fides in suo exordio adhuc lan­guida, multis eget adminiculis donec astipuletur & sub­mittat se Scriptu­ris. At vbi ad matu­ritaté suam fuerit progressa, amplius haud perindè opus habet illis externis presidijs sed tum veritaté ex ipsamet Scriptura liquidius aspicit, internis quae in ea latent argu­mentis, omni hu­mano modo subli­miorib' ducta at (que) permota, atq, sic fi­des illa [...] confir­mata suo proprio nititur sundaméto nec fulcitur ampli' solis externis ad­miniculis.

The reason of the inconsequence is, for that the mayne and substantiall points of faith, may be knowne and beleeued by the doctrine of the Scripture, touching the said points deliuered to D people, by those which haue faithfully collected the same into a Summarie, out of the particular and distinct sentences of the ho­ly Scriptures. And they that beleeue this doctrine of the Scrip­tures, may attaine the knowledge and faith of substantiall points of Christianity, before themselues can reade and vnderstand the said Bookes: yet they resolue not their faith into vnwritten Tra­dition (according to the Popish meaning, where by vnwritten Tra­dition is vnderstood doctrine of faith, neither expresly nor inuoluedly contained in holy Scripture) but into the doctrine of the Scripture, collected and deliuered vnto them by others, and vertually and E immediately into the holy Scripture it selfe (as I haue formerly shewed, in answer to the second Argument.)

That which followeth in the obiection touching the rule of faith, prooueth not that Christian beliefe is resolued lastly and [Page 32] finally into vnwritten Tradition: because the rule of faith, is not A such vnwritten Tradition, as is neither exprefly, nor by conse­quent contained in Scripture: but a Summarie of the principall Articles of Christian [...] contained in the Apostles Creed; and which may be gathered out of the plaine texts and sentences of holy Scripture Chrys. in symb. Hom. 1. [...]. d. Trinit. c. 1. ca. 9. ar. 9. Aug. d. Temp. Ser. 119. Chrysolog. Serm. 61. In symb. Leo. Serm. 11. d. pas­sione Dom. Alex. Hal. 3. q. 82. m. 5. ar. 2. Creatorem caeli & terrae: à capite Scripturae accipit illud, &c. Qui con­ceptus est de spiri­tu sancto: sumitur iste articulus de Math. 1. Inuenta est habens in vte­ro, &c. Cassian. d. Incarnat. li. 6. c. 3. Quicquid per di­uersum diuinorum voluminū corpus, immensa [...] copia, totum in symboli colligitur breuitate perfecta. Paschas. d. spirit sancto prefat., and therefore all they which resolue their faith into the said rule, refolue the same also into the plaine do­ctrine of the Scripture. And that the rule of faith is such, it ap­peareth.

First, by the branches and Articles of that rule, which are; B I beleeue in God, the Father Almighty, &c. And in Iesus Christ, his onely Sonne our Lord, &c. With the rest of the Articles of the Apostles Creed, reade 1. Cor. 15.1, 2, 3.1. Tim. 3.16. And Tertull. in the place alleaged by the Iesuite Tertul. prae­script. c. 13. Regula est autem fidei, vt iam quid credamus profiteamur. Illa D scilicet, qua credi­tur, vnum omninò deum effe, nec alium preter mundi crearorem, qui vniuersa de nihilo produxerit per verbum suum, primò omnium emissum. Id verbum filium eius appellatum, in nomine Dei varie visum Patriarchis, in Pro­phetis semper auditum, postremò delatum ex spiritu Dei Patris, & virtute in Virginem Mariam, carnem factum in vtero eius, & ex ea natum hominem, & esse Iesum Christum, exindè predicasse nouam legem, & nouam promis­sionem regni caelorum, virtutes fecisse, fixum cruci, tertia die refurexisse: in caelos ereptum sedere, ad dexteram Pa­tris, misisse vicariam vim spiritus Sancti, qui credentes agat, venturum cum claritate, ad sumendos sanctos, in vitae aeternae & promissorum caelestium fructum, & ad prophanos iudicandos igni aeterno, facta vtriusque partis re­suscitatione, cum carnis resurrectione. [...] regula à Christo instituta, &c. Iren. lib. 1. c. 3. August. Enchyr. cap. 56., and in his Booke d. vel. virg. Tertul. d. vel. [...]. c. 1. Regula quidem fidei, vna omninò est, sola immobilis & irreformabilis, credendi seilicet in vnum Deum omnipotentem mundi creatorem, & filium eius Iesum Christum, natum ex Virgine Maria, crucifixum sub Pontio Pilato, terto die resuscitatum, à mortuis receptum in caelis, sedentem nunc ad dexteram Patris, [...] iudicare viuos & mortuos, per carnis etiam Refurrectionem. rehearsing the ancient rule of faith, doth not mention any one Article, which is not expresly or by deriuation contained in holy Scripture.

Secondly, the rule of faith extendeth not it selfe beyond the bounds of the Gospel, Gallath. 1.8. Tertul. de prescript. c. 6. Ibid. cap. 6. Nobis curiositate opus non est post Iesum Christum: nec inquifitione post Euangelium, cum credimus nihil desideramus [...] cre­dere. E Hoc enim prius credimus, non esse quod vltra credere debeamus. but all the mayne and substantiall Articles of faith necessary to bee C beleeued generally to saluation, are contained in the plaine places of Euangelicall Scripture; as both [...]. Augustine August. d. doctrina Christ. lib. 2. cap. 9. In eis quae [...] in Scriptura posita sunt, Inueniuntur illa omnia, quae continent fidem moresque vi­uendi, spem scz. atque charitatem. and learned Pa­pists themselues affirme Bellarm. d. [...] Dei li. 4. c. 11. Scripta sunt ab Apostolis ea omnia quae absolute necessaria sunt ad salutem omnium [...]. [...]. d. Ecclesia dogm. lib. 2. cap. 3. pag. 60. Gerson. d. sensu sacr. Scrip. propos. 9.: wherefore if the rule of faith be only a summarie comprehension of the mayne and substantiall Arti­cles of Christianity, and all these Articles are contained in holy Scripture; then it followeth, that the rule of faith, is not vn­written Tradition alone (according to the Popish meaning) but a Summarie of beleese contained in the plainer sentences of ho­ly Scripture, either expresly, or by deduction.

[Page 33] [...], [...] [...], li. 3. d. doct. Christ. c. 2. saith, Consulat regu­lam fidei, quam de Scripturarum pla­nioribus locis, & Ecclèsiae authori­tate percepit. Let A a man seeke the rule of faith, which he hath learned of [...] places of Scripture, and of the authoritie of the Church: now the plainer places of Scripture, are a part of Scripture; and the authority of the Church exceedeth not the bounds of the Scrip­ture, according to S ^t. Hierom. Ecclesia Christi quae [...] bene & in [...] Ec­clesias possidens, spirit' veritate [...] est, & habet vibes legis [...], [...] & Apostolorū: Non est egessia de fini­bus suis, id est de Scripturis [...], &c. com. Mich. c. 1. And Durand the famous Schooleman, 2. dist. 44. q. 3. n. 9. Ecclesia licet habet dominatio­nem Dei in terris, illa tamen non ex­cedit limitationem Scripturae. Cusanus Concord. Cathol. li. 2. ca. 6. In loco congregatio­nis [...] in [...] ponebantur, Sacra Euan gelia &c. Secundum testimonium [...] decreuit C Synodus.

Out of the former definition of the rule of faith, it follow­eth, That because according to our Aduersaries doctrine, the be­leefe of Christians touching all maine and substantiall points of B faith, is resolued into the rule of faith: and the said rule, excee­deth not the limits of holy Scripture, being onely a summarie comprehension of the principall heads of Christian doctrine, collected from the plainer places of Scripture, and propounded by the authority of the Church confined to Scripture, that therefore the finall resolution of faith is not made into Tradition vnwritten, as the same signifies Doctrine, neither expresly nor in­uoluedly contained in holy Scripture, but into the Scripture, or doctrine of the Scripture it selfe.

IESVITS 4. Argument.

Those that vnderstand the Scriptures aright, must be such as they were to whom the Apostles writ and deliuered the Scriptures, and whose instruction they intended by their wri­ting: But the Apostles, as Dr. Field acknowledgeth, wrote to them they had formerly taught more at large, that were in­structed D and grounded in all substantiall and necessarie points of faith, that knew the common necessary obseruations of Christianitie: Ergo, they that reade, and presume to iuterpret the Scriptures, without first knowing, and firmely beleeuing by Tradition, at the least all necessary & substantiall points of faith, cannot with assurance vnderstand them, but may euen in manifest points mightily mistake: for the blessed Apostles writing to Christians, that were before hand fully taught E and setled in substantiall Christian doctrines and customes, doe ordinarily in their writings suppose such things as aboun­dantly knowne, without declaring them anew, onely tuching them cursorily by the way, and therefore [...], so that the [Page 34] already taught, might well vnderstand their sayings and no A other.

ANSWER.

The question is IESVIT, To which question I answere, That the last and finall reso­lution thoreof, is not [...] Scripture, but into the perpe­tuall Tradition of the Church [...] the Apostles., Whether the last and finall resolution of Faith is made into vnwritten Tradition, and not into Scripture.

The fourth Argument produced by the Aduersarie, to prooue this, is taken from the necessitie of vnwritten Traditian to ex­pound the Scripture. And the summe of the Argument is, With­out B a precedent instruction, or teaching by Tradition vnwritten, the ne­cessarie and substantiall points of Faith; wee cannot be firmely assured that we haue the right sence of the Scripture, as appeareth by the ex­ample of the Primitiue hearers of the Apostles, who were formerly instructed by them, and had the right Faith taught them more at large: and then being thus informed and prepared, they receiued the Scripture: and we haue no reason to promise vnto our selues more vnderstanding than the Apostles immediat hearers. And the Scriptures without Tra­dition are obscure, and do onely cursorily touch matters formerly taught more at large, Ergo,

The last and finall resolution of Faith is made into vnwritten Tradi­tion, C and not into Scripture.

In the Antecedent or leading part of this Argument, some things cannot be admitted without distinction, and some parts hereof are false, and the Argument it selfe is inconsequent.

First, they which in our daies vnderstand the Scripture aright, must be such as they were to whom the Apostles wrote, and deliuered the Scriptures &c. not simply, and in all things (for many things are requisit for the first plantation of Faith, which are not necessarie for the future continuance and propagation thereof,) but in such things onely as are common and ordinarie D for all ages.

Wherefore they which in our daies vnderstand the Scrip­tures aright, must ordinarily haue a preuious introduction by the teaching of others, and also there must be in them a mind de­sirous of Truth August. d. vti­tat. credendi c. 6. Planè ita modifica­ta, vt nemo inde haurire non possit, quod sibi satis est, si modo ad [...], deuotè ac [...], vt vera religio docet, accedat. [...]. in Psalm. 118. serm. 8. Docet Deus & mentes illuminat singulorum & claritatem cognitionis infundit, si tu aperias ostia cordis tui, & [...] gratiae recipias claritatem, & quando dubitas [...] as &c. [...]. Orth. [...]. li. 4. ca. 18. [...]., and a resolution and diligence to vse the meanes appointed by God, to learne the same: but that they must be instructed in the same manner as the Apostles hearers were, or learne all the necessarie points of Faith before they be­gin to read the Scriptures without any certaine vnderstanding, is affirmed by the Aduersarie, but not prooued. Also many of E the Apostles hearers read part of the Scriptures, to wit, the Scrip­tures [Page 35] of the Old Testament with profit, and some right vnder­standing A before they were generally taught all the grounds of the Gospell, for otherwise how could they haue examined the Doctrine of the Apostles by the Scriptures? Acts 17.11. And to what purpose did our Sauiour command the Iewes to search the Scriptures, Ioh. 5.39? August. Psal. 108. [...] jubet, non in superficie pertransire. Chrys. in Gen. hom. 37. August. Epist. 120. Ama Ecclesiasticas legere literas, & non multa inueni­es quae requiras ex me, sed legendo & ruminando, si eti­am purè dominum largitorem bono­rum omniū depre­ceris, omnia quae cognitione digna sunt, aut certè plu­rima, ipso magisin­spirante, quam ho­minum aliquo [...] perdisces. Chrysost. Gen. Hom. 35. Magna diligen­tia Scripturarum lectioni vacemus ita enim scientiam assequemur. Iustinian Com. 2. Tim. 3.15. Christus apud Iohannem ad Scripturarū lecti­onem prouocat Iu­deos, Ioh. 5.39. And why did the Apostles (preaching both to Iewes and Gentiles) confirme their Doctrine by the te­stimonie of the Scriptures, Ro. 9.9, 25, 29, 33. & ca. 10.11.13.16. 19. & ca. 11.2.8.9. & cap. 4.3.6.17. Iam. 2.23. 1. Pet. 2.6, if the people to whom they preached could at all haue no right vnder­standing of the Scriptures before they were fully and perfectly B grounded in the knowledge of all necessarie and substantiall points of Christian Faith?

Secondly, whereas the Iesuit addeth for confirmation of his Antecedent, That the Scriptures without Tradition are obscure, and that the Apostles did in them onely cursorily touch matters formerly taught: both those assertions, according to the Popish meaning, are false.

We acknowledge that many particular Texts and passages of holy Scripture are obscure and hard to be vnderstood Parcus, Com. Gen. 4. Non nega­mus Scripturā ni­hil habere obscu­ritatis &c. Whitak. d. Ecclesia pa. 220. Sunt quae­dam Scripturae, lo­ca de quibus nihil certò statui potest. Beza d. Not. Eccle­siae pa. 137. Philip Morn. d. Ecclesia c. 4. Zanch. d. Script. q. 11. Chemnic. Exam. pa. 57. Fulk. c. Rhem. Pref. fol. 2. Lubbert. d. Script. li. 4. ca. 2. Chimid. d. Script. li. 4. c. 4. D. Field of the Church, lib. 4. ca. 15., 2. Pet. 3. 16. But in such points as are necessarie for Christians to vnder­stand, because they are primarie or fundamentall, and in such C things as are necessary for the declaring and applying that which is fundamentall, the same is not so obscure, but it may by diligent reading, and vsing ordinarie meanes and helpes of knowledge, be rightly vnderstood by the learned, and also in a competent measure by the vnlearned, after the same is expounded and de­clared vnto them: For if the Scripture were generally and ab­solutely obscure to the vnlearned, then God would not haue commanded them to read the same, nor required them to heare the reading thereof, much lesse would he haue said, That by hea­ring the same, they and their children might learne to feare him, D and keepe his commandements, Deut. 31.11, 12, 13. And that the holy Scripture is in this manner perspicuous, the antient Fa­thers constantly affirme Orig. c. Celium. li. 7. [...] viri scrutan­do Scripturam, intellectum eius inuenire poterunt, licet reuera sit multis locis obscura. Ib. Ita diuina prouidentia &c. non solum eruditis Graecis, sed etiàm reliquis condescendit ad idioticum captum auditurae multitudinis, vt con­suetis E verbis apud eos vtendo, imperitos ad auscultandum alliceret, presertìm cum eis facile foret post primam il­lam introductionem, studiose scrutari sensus reconditiores in sacris [...], & peruestigare. Cuiuis enim est per­spicuum, qui modo has legat, quod qui eas diligentèr examinant, multo retrusiora inueniant, quam quae docentur prima specie.. S. Gregorie and S. Bernard Greg. ad Leandr. praefat. Iob c. 4. Quasi quidam est fluuius planus & altus, in quo agnus ambulet & Elephas [...]. Idem in ca. 4. Cant. Bernard. Serm. paru. 64. compare the holy Scriptures to a Riuer wherein the Elephant may swim, and the Lambe may wade: S. Ireneus Ireneus li. 2. ca. 46. Sunt autem haec quae ante [...] nostros occurrunt, & quae cunque apertè & sine ambiguo, ipsis dictionibus posita sunt in Scriptutis. Et ca. 47. saith, that some things in Scripture are apertly and cleerely without ambiguitie manifested to the eyes of our [Page 36] vnderstanding. Saint Augustine Aug. sup. Ioh. [...]. 50. Quaedam in Scripturis tam ma­nifesta sunt vt po­tius auditoré quam [...] desi­derent.: Some things are set downe so A plainely in the Scriptures, that they rather require a hearer than an ex­positar. And in another place, Et Id. sup. psal. 88. Et si quaedam sunt testa misterijs, quaedam tamen sic manifesta, vt ex ip­sis facilime aperi­antur [...]. Although some things are vailed with mysteries, yet againe some things are so manifest, that by the helpe of them, obscure things may bee opened. And againe, In eis quae a­pertè in Scriptura posita sunt, [...] illa omnia quae continent si­dem moresque vi­uendi: spem scilicet atque charitatem. Et d. vtilit. [...]. c. 6. [...] est mihi crede in Scripturis illis altum & diui­num est: [...] om­ninò veritas & re­ficiendis instaurā ­disque animis ac­comodatissima dis­ciplina: & planè [...] modificata, vt nemo inde haurire non possit quod si­bi satis est, [...] modo ad hauriendum de­uotè ac pie vt vera religio docet acce­dat. August. d. vnit. Ec­clesiae c. 4. Nec in aliqua Scripturarū obscuritate fallun­tur, sed notissimis & appertissimis ea­rū testimonijs con­tra dicunt. Et c. 5.6.27. Hoc etiam praedico at (que) propono vt quae (que) aperta & manifesta deligamus: quae si in sanctis Scripturis non inuenerentur, nullo modo esset vnde apperirentur clausa & illustrarentur obscura. All matters which containe faith, and good manners, are found in those things which are manifestly placed in the Scriptures. Saint Chrysostome: In diuine Scriptures all necessary things are plaine Chrys. Hom. 3. Thes. ep. 2. In diuinis Scripturis quaecun (que) necessaria sunt mani­festa sunt.. To the like purpose spea­keth S ^t. Hierom [...]. sup. Esay. c. 19. & in Psal. 86., Fulgentius Fulg. Serm. d. confess., Hugo Victor Hug. Vict. Miscel. 2. l. 1. Tit. 56., Theoderit Theod. in Gen. apud struch. p. 87., Lactantius Lact. l. 6. c. 21., Theophilus Antiochenus Theopb. Antioch. ad Autolich. l. 2. p. 918., Clem. Alexandrinus Clem. Alex. Orat. Adhort. ad Gentes. Cyril. [...]. Iul. l. 7. p. 160. Vt omnibus [...] nota paruis & magnis vtiliter familiari sermone E commendata sunt ita vt nullius captum transcendant., and the same is the common Tenet of the Primatiue Fathers. And Gregory Valence B confesseth that such places of Scriptures as containe Articles of faith absolutely necessary, are almost all of them plaine. The like is affirmed by Aquinas Th. Aq. part. 1. q. 1. ar. 9. c., Vasques Vasq. in Thom. part. 1. disp. 18. c. 4. n. 11., and Gonzales Gonzales in 1. p. Thom. at. 9. pag. 61..

The other clause of the Iesuits speech, to wit, That the Apo­stles in their Scripture did onely touch matters cursorily, for­merly taught, is false.

First, this Assertion is repugnant to Saint Augustine, who spea­king of the doctrine and deeds of our Sauiour, saith, d. cons. [...]. l. 1. c. 35. Quicquid ille de suis factis & dictis nos legere voluit, hoc scribendum illis tanquam manibus suis imperauit: Whatsoeuer Christ would haue vs reade C touching his owne sayings and workes, this hee commanded the Euangelists, as it were his owne hands, to write. And in another place, Aug. sup. [...] tr. 49. sanctus Euangelista testatur dominum Christum, & dixisse, & fecisse quae scripta non sunt: Electa sunt autem quae scribe­rentur, quae saluti [...] sufficere viderentur. Although Christ spake and wrought some things which are not written, yet those things which seemed vnto him sufficient to the salua­tion of beleeuers, were selected to be written. Saint Cyrill also affir­meth, Cyril. Alex. l. 12. Ioh. c. vltimo. Non omnia quae fecit Do­minus conscripta sunt, sed quae scribentes tam ad mores quam ad Dogmata [...] sufficere, vt recta fide, & operibus, & virtute [...], ad regnum [...]. that all things which Christ did are not written, but so much as holy writers iudged sufficient both for good manners and godly faith, to the end, that we shining in right faith, good workes, and vertue, may at­taine the heauenly Kingdome. By the iudgement of these Fathers, the holy Euangelists committed to writing so much of our Saui­ours D Doctrine and deeds as is sufficient for people to know, that they may bee illustrious in faith and vertue; and by the light whereof, they may come to saluation. In these things therefore the Euangelists did not cursorily touch matters, but largely and fully deliuer them.

[Page 37] Secondly, if the Scriptures containe all things sufficient to A saluation, yea, more than is sufficient, then the Apostles in their Scriptures did not cursorily, or by the way onely touch matters: But the first is affirmed, both by the Fathers Basil. praefat in Psa. vberimū quod­dam est & commu­ne promptuarium. Chrys. Gen. hom. 3. Non solum thesau­ro, &c. sed fonti quo (que) largis [...]. Greg. in Cant. c. 5. [...] plenissima, &c. si­ne minoratione ad plenum de [...] imuenitur., and confessed by some learned Papists. Vincent. [...], The Canon of the Scripture is perfit, and in it selfe sufficient for all mat­ters, yea more than sufficient. Antonius Perez, Pentateuch. fidei. vol. 4. c. 21. Vincent. Lir. [...] Haeres. c. 2. Cum [...] perfectus Scriptu­rarū Canon, [...] ad omnia satis su­per (que) sufficiat, &c. b Perez. p. 24. [...] autem comparetur vel [...] Scriptura [...] quae fides docet, tanquam necessaria [...] ad [...] plane redūdans est atque [...] in genere regule, quo­niā multa imo ple­ra (que) sunt in [...], quorū cognitio ne­cessaria non est, &c.. If the Scripture be compared and applied with things which faith teacheth, as necessarie to saluation, the same is appa­rently redundant, and superfluous, according to the nature of a rule: because there be many things, yea most things in the same, the know­ledge B whereof is vnnecessarie. But if the Scripture containe many [...] superfluous, and more than is needfull, it is improbable [...] thinke that it is imperfect in Principals, or deliuereth them [...] onely, or by the way.

Thirdly, the variety and multitude of points and doctrines of faith and good manners, and the often repeating and decla­ring of them in the holy Scriptures, prooueth that the Apostles [...] fully and perfectly deliuer in their writings, the whole [...] of Christian faith, and not onely cursorily touch them.

For all supernaturall veritie concerning the sacred Deitie, C Trinitie, diuine Attributes, and Operations, Creation of the world, &c. is taught in holy Scripture Aug. d. gen. ad lit l. 12. c. 33. Ab [...] diuinarū Scripturarū [...] solis de hac re [...] habenda est, rece­dere non debemus. Theophilact. Act. 1. Non aliquid [...] rerum pretermise­runt, &c.. In like manner, the whole doctrine of faith concerning the Incarnation, Person, and Office of Christ, is reuealed vnto vs by holy Scripture. And for this cause Saint Cyrill Concil. Eph. 1. apud Binium p. 692. Amb. Ser. 57. Qui vult ad Christi peruenire [...] non ingreditur ad illud [...] per [...] Scripturae secretum. Cyril. c. Iulian l. 7. p. 161. Ad sanctas conuertimur Scripturas, in quib' veritatis [...] fulget, & exacta dogmatum cognitio coaceruata est, & omne genus bonorū documentorū, quibus quis statim plenus virtute, & bonorum operū gloria conspicuus euadat. calleth the Scriptures Solos fontes veritatis, The sole fountaines of veritie. All things con­cerning Iustification, Charitie, and good workes ( Damasc. Orthod. fid. l 4. c. 18. [...], &c. being meerely supernaturall) are taught in Scripture. The doctrine of the Law, Gospell, Sacraments, resurrection of the dead, fi­nall iudgement, &c. is intirely and fully reuealed in the holy D Scriptures: and the Church, according to Saint Augustine Aug. sup. ep. Ioh. tr. 3. Est mater Ecclesia & vbera ejus duo testamenta Scripturarū diuinarum, hinc [...] lac omniū Sacramentorū temporaliter pro eterna salute nostra. &c. Don. d. Bapt. l. 3. c. 15., hath onely two brests, wherewith shee feedeth her children, to wit, the Scrip­tures of the Old and New Testament. And that he alwayes vnder­standeth by the Old and New Testament, the Scriptures of both, appeareth by his words vpon Psal. 22. Aug. sup. Psal. 22. Fratres sum', quare [...] non intesta­tus E mortu' est Pater, fecit testamentū & sic mortu' est, &c. [...] haereditate mortuorū, quamdiu [...] proferatur in publicū, & cum testamentū [...] fuerit, [...] omnes vt tabulae repetiantur, & [...], index attentè audit, aduocati silent, [...], [...], vt legantur verba mor­tui, &c. Ille sine sensu jacet in monumento, & valent verba ipsius: sedet Christ' in [...] & [...]. Aperi [...], [...] sumus, [...] noster, non [...] testameto nos dimisit pater. Aperi legamus, &c. [Page 38] Let vs open our Fathers last Testament, and reade it. And [...] A the great [...]. Hist. l. 1. c. 7. Trip. Hist. l. [...]. c. 5: [...] & Apostolice [...] nec non an­tiquorum Prophetarum [...] plane [...] de sensu Nu­minis: The Euangelicall and Apostolicall bookes, toge­ther with the Oracles of the antient Prophets, doe plainely ( [...] euidently) instruct vs, concerning the minde of God. And from all the former, it is manifest, that the Apostles wri­tings are not patches, and shreds onely of Apostolicall Do­ctrine (as our [...] against all antiquitie presumeth to af­firme) but the very substance, [...]. l. 3. c. 1. Non per alios dispositio­nem salutis nostrae [...], quam per cos per quos E­uangeliú per venit ad nos. Quod qui­dem [...] praeconia [...], [...] vero per Dei [...], in Scripturis nobis tradiderunt, sunda­mentum & colum­nam fidei nostrae suturam. Orig. praef. in Ioh. p. 161. Quae praedicauit & dixit (Paulus) haec [...] scripsit. Niceph. Hist. Eccl. l. 2. c. 34. Quae presens oratione sua dilucide docue­rat (Paulus) [...] per compendium absens in memori­am [...] dedit, &c. and marrow of their whole Preaching, containing the summe of the Gospell; by faith and B obedience whereof, wee receiue euerlasting life. And thus much touching the Antecedent of the Iesuits Argument. The sequel of the former Argument, which is, Because without precedent instruction by vnwritten Tradition, wee cannot be firmely assured that wee haue the right sence of the Scripture, therefore the last and finall resolution is made vnto vnwritten Tradition, and not into Scripture, is inconsequent, and the Antecedent proueth not the Consequent: for precedent Tra­dition may bee necessarie, to deliuer vnto vs the text of holy Scripture, and Precpts how to expound and vse the same; and C by Tradition wee may receiue a Commentarie of some texts of holy Scripture: yet euen as a Schollar, although hee re­ceiue the bookes of Euclid and Aristotle from a Master, and precepts in what sort hee shall proceed in his studie, and with­all, a Commentary declaring the meaning of these Authours, yet hee doth not finally (being made learned himselfe) resolue his knowledge into the former, but into the principles of these Arts themselues: so likewise a nouice in faith receiueth the holy. Scripture by Ministerie and Tradition of the Church, and Precepts and Commentaries, whereby hee is D first inabled, and afterwards holpen in the right exposition thereof, yet after this Introduction, by further studie and dili­gence, hee collecteth Arguments from the Scripture it selfe, and being instructed in the sence thereof, he doth not finally resolue his beleefe into the Commentarie and Introduction, but into the text or Doctrine of holy Scripture it selfe.

IESVIT. E

Hence I may further inferre, that Protestants haue not throughly pondered the place of the Apostle vnto Ti­mothie, which they [...] vehemently vrge to prooue the suf­ficiencie [Page 39] of sole Scripture, for euery man, as though he had A said absolutely, that the Scriptures are able to instruct or make men wise vnto Saluation, which he saith not but speaking particularly vnto Timothie, saith, They are able to instruct or make thee wise vnto saluation, [...] [...] hast been aforehand instructed by word of mouth, and doost thereupon firmely beleeue all substantiall Doctrines, and knowest all the necessarie practise of Christian Discipline. B

ANSWER.

The Aduersarie in this passage vseth certaine Arguments to prooue that Protestants misunderstand the Text of S. Paul, 2. Timoth. 3.15, 16. when they vrge the same to maintaine the sufficiencie of sole Scripture, to be a ground for all Christians finally to rest their faith vpon.

His first Argument is, The Apostle saith not absolutely that the Scriptures are able to make all men wise vnto Saluation, but parti­cularly to Timothie, a man instructed aforehand, and formerly [...] C all substantiall grounds of Doctrine and Discipline, they are able [...] to make thee (being such a one, and so prepared) wise &c.

To this I answere, 1. That although sentences of holy Scripture are sometimes restrained to the personall or particu­lar subiect of which they are first spoken, yet this is not gene­rall; and when the same happeneth, it must be prooued by better Arguments than by the bare Emphasis of a word. For God said to Ioshua (a man qualified aboue the ordinarie ranke) I will not leaue thee nor forsake thee, Ioshua 1. 5. yet the promise implied in this Text, is generall and common to all iust per­sons, D Heb. 13.5. Our Sauiour granted ministeriall power to remit sinnes, by speciall commission to the Apostles, and de­liuering this commission to them, he breathed the holy Ghost into them, saying, Receiue yee the holy Ghost, &c. [...] 20.22. Neuer­thelesse our Aduersaries affirme, that this authority was not on­ly granted them, but to other Ministers of Christ which are not personally qualified as the Apostles were.

Secondly, if the particular circumstance of Timothie his per­son, expressed in the single word, Thee, 2. Tim. 3.15. do limit S. Pauls doctrine, concerning the Scripture, in [...] E then, where more circumstances are found in Texts con­cerning Traditions, the same may be answered as the Iesuit doth this place of S. Paules.

For example, 2. Thessal. 2.15. The Apostle saith, Therefore [Page 40] [...] stand fast, and hold the Traditions which [...] haue beene A taught, whether by word or our Epistle. In this Text so vehement­ly vrged by Papists, for vnwritten Tradition, is found a perso­nall circumstance, Tee, [...] Thessalonians which haue beene my im­mediate hearers, 1. Thess. 1. 5. and thereby are infallibly assured that the Tradition which I exhort you to hold is diuine. Also you [...], which haue not receiued as yet a perfect Canon of the New Testament in writing, I say to you, stand fast and hold both writ­ten and vnwritten Tradition.

Thirdly, admitting the Iesuits restraint, and it being gran­ted, that the Scriptures do onely make those people wise to B Saluation, which are instructed aforehand, and haue formerly beene taught the substantiall points of Christian Doctrine, yet this argueth not the insufficiencie of Scripture, to be the onely authenticall rule and ground of Faith, because the said substan­tial Doctrines which in the Apostles daies, before the Canon of the New Testament was finished, were partly contained in Scripture, and partly deliuered by their vocall preaching, were afterwards, when the Canonicall Scripture of the New Testament was finished, and the holy Apostles were de­ceased, wholly for matter of substance contained in the same C Scripture Iren. li. 4. c. 63. Apostolorum Do­ctrina &c. quae peruenit [...] ad nos, custodita sine fictione, Scripturarum tractatione plenissima, nequè addi­tamentum neque [...] recipiens & lectio sine falsatione & secundum Scripturas expositio legitima & diligens &c. [...]. 2. [...]. [...]. 9. Prome (inquit) Scripturas habes, siquid addiscere cupis, hinc poteris..

[...].

Verily the Apostle in that place speaketh onely of the Scriptures of the Old Testament, affirming them sufficient not for euery man, but for Timothie, and not sufficient D for him by themselues alone, but per fidem quae est in Christo Iesu, that is, [...] with the Doctrine of Christi­an Faith, which Timothie had heard and beleeued, vpon [...] liuely voice of Tradition.

ANSWER.

The Apostle in this place speaketh of the Scriptures of the Old Testament, but not onely. Timothie when he was a child E learned onely the Scriptures of the Old Testament, but after his childhood, he read also the Scriptures of the New, 1. Tim. 4. 16. This Epistle was written by S. Paul not long before his death, 2. Tim. 4.6. at which time the greatest part of the Canon [Page 41] of the New Testament was finished Eder. Oicon. Bib. lib. 4. pag. 482. Hanc epistolā om­nium quae scripsit Paulus esse postre­mam, & ab eo iam ex hoc mundo tr̄a­situro, Roma ex vinculis ad Timo­theum fuisse trans­missam, constans omnium ferè San­ctorum est hoc lo­co patrum [...]. Videtur emm tunc eam [...] cum esset proxim' fini: Ego enim in­quit, iam delibor & tempus resolutio­nis meae instat. Et iterum, In priore mea defēsione nul­lus mihi adstitit. Chrys. in 2. Timoth. Hom. 1. [...], &c. Ambros. Theo­dorit. Theophilact. Anselm. in Com­ment.; therefore it is not ne­cessarie A that we should restraine these words, Thou from a child hast knowne the holy Scriptures, onely to the Scriptures of the Old Testament, because Timothie, who in his youth read onely the Old Testament, in the progresse of his yeares read the New Testament also.

And although no Scripture is able to make wise to saluation, without Faith in Christ Iesus, yet this prooueth not the holy Scripture to be an imperfect Rule; because if Tradition be ad­ded to Scripture, yet both these are not able to make people wise to saluation, without Faith. Heb. 4. 2. B

But admitting, that the Apostle in the first Clause, Thou from a Child hast knowne the holy Scriptures, speaketh of the Scriptures of the Old Testament; yet adding to the same in the latter part of his speech, through Faith which is in Christ Iesus: if by Faith wee vnderstand the doctrine of Faith, reuealed in the New Te­stament, there is no materiall or necessarie part of doctrine, touching Christ Iesus, which is not contained in the Scripture. 1. Cor. 15. 1, 2, 3, 4. And this was the Tenet of the antient Ca­tholike Church, as appeareth by S. Augustine, C. Petil. Lib. 3. cap. 6. who saith: Proinde siue de Christo siue de Ecclesia, siue de C quacunque alia re, quae pertinet ad fidem vitamque nostram, non di­cam nos nequaquam comparandi ei qui dixit, licet si nos, sed om­nino quod secutus adiecit, si Angelus de Coelo vobis annunciauerit, prae­terquam quod in Scripturis Legalibus & Euangelicis accepistis Ana­thema sit. I will not say, if wee vnworthie to be compared to him that spake so; but if an Angell from Heauen shall teach any thing, either concerning Christ, or the Church, or concer­ning any other matter pertaining to Faith, or good life, besides that which you haue receiued in the Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures, let him be Anathema. D

IESVIT.

And in the consequent words of the Apostle, so much insisted vpon, All Scripture inspired of God, is profita­ble to teach, &c. And if Protestants could so metamor­phise the word Profitable, as to make it signifie the same with the word Sufficient, which is very hard; yet were E the Text much ouer-short, to prooue their intent, That Scripture alone is sufficient for euerie man, seeing the Apo­stle speakes not of euerie man, but expressely of him who [Page 42] is Homo Dei, the Man of God, that is, one alreadie A fully instructed and firmely setled by Tradition in all the maine points of Christian Faith, and godly Life, such a one as Timothie was. The Scriptures for men in this manner afore taught, and grounded in Faith, are abun­dantly sufficient, who will denie it? But this prooueth at the most the sufficiencie of the Scripture, ioyned with Tradition; not of Scripture alone, or of onely, onely, onely Scripture [...]. [...]. Def. pag. 341., as Protestants Bookes in great Letters very B earnestly affirme.

ANSWER.

S. Paul himselfe vseth both the word Profitable, Vers. 16. and the word [...], are able to make wise to saluation, which is equiualent to Sufficient, Verse 15. And Protestants alone are not the men which expound the word Profitable, by Sufficient; for both the Fathers and many learned Papists doe the like. C Vincent. Lirinensis Vincent. Lirin. Cum sit perfectus Scripturae Canon, fibique ad omnia satis superque suf­ficiat, &c., C. Haeres. cap. 2. The Canon of the Scripture is sufficient, and more than sufficient. Cyril of Alexandria Cyril. Alex. Suf­ficit Diuina Scrip­tura ad faciendum eos qui in illa edu­cati sunt sapientes & probatissimos & sufficientissimā ha­bentes intelligen­tiam, &c., C. Iulian. Lib. 7. pag. 150. The Scripture is sufficient to make them wise, which are brought vp in it, &c. Anselm. Anselm. Quae literae possunt te [...], id est sufficienter doctū reddere ad aeter­nam salutem con­sequendam. in his Commen­tarie vpon 2. Tim. 3. 16. They are able to make thee sufficiently learned, to obtaine eternall saluation. Gerson Gerson. Scrip­rura nobis tradita est tanquam regula sufficiens & infallibilis, pro regimine totius Ecclesiasistici corporis, & membrorum, vsque in finem seculi. D. Exam. Doctr. Part. 2. Consid. 1. The Scripture is giuen vs as a sufficient Rule, &c. Scotus Scot. [...] homini [...] est sufficienter tradita in [...] sacra., 1. Sent. Prol. q. 2. Supernaturall knowledge, necessarie for a wayfaring man, is sufficiently deliuered in sacred Scripture. The same is affirmed by Espencaeus Espens. Easque posse hominem ad salutem erudire & sufficienter doctum reddere., Commentar. 2. Tim. 3. 16. and D by Bonauenture Bonauent. Breuiloq. cap. 1., Occham Occham. [...]. Part. 1. [...]. 2. cap. 10., Waldensis [...]. Wald. Doctr. Fid. Lib. 2. cap. E 20., and Gabriel Aquin. 3. d. 25. art. 1., Thom. Aquinas Aquin. Com. Ioh. 21. Lect. 6. Si quis Euangelizauerit, &c. Gal. 1. 8. [...] ratio est, quia sola Canonica Scriptura est Regula Fidei. Edit. Paris. An. 1520. per Ioh. d. Porta., Lyra [...], Loc. 16. 29. Illi [...] Mosen qui docuit moralia agenda: & Propheras qui docuerunt mystica & eredenda & [...] sufficiunt ad salutem, ideo sequitur [...] illos., Durand. Durand. 3. dist 26. q. 2. n. 7. [...], in [...] sacra diffuse contineatur, &c. &c.

But the Aduersarie saith, That graunting the word (Profita­ble) did signifie Sufficient, yet S. Pauls Text still falleth short, of proouing the Scripture the onely Rule, because it is not said to be suffi­cient for all men, but for the man of God; and it is not sufficient a­lone, and by it selfe, but being ioyned with Tradition.

[Page 43] I answere first, That which is Sufficient in genere regulae, as a A Rule for the man of God, either Minister, 1. Tim. 6. 12. or o­ther spirituall man, 1. Cor. 2.15. is sufficient for all men, because there is but one common Obiect and Rule of Faith for the whole Church, and all the members thereof Alex. Hal. 3. q. 12. m. 2. ar. 3. q 2. Fides quantum ad id quod creditur, est cadem numero in omnibus sanctis qui sunt membra Ecclesiae, &c. Isio­dor d. Summ. Bon. Lib. 1. cap. 18. vtris­que maner com­munis & paruulis & perfectis., contayning strong Meat for the Learned, and Milke or plaine Doctrine for Babes. And therefore, if the Scripture be a Rule, and a sufficient Rule, it is such in common, and in respect of all peo­ple, although the manner of applying and vsing the same, may differ.

Secondly, That which is Profitable, to make the man of God B perfect, and throughly furnished to euerie good worke, is both a sufficient Rule and an onely Rule. First, it is sufficient, be­cause it makes people which receiuc it by Faith and Obedience, meet for the kingdome of God: Secondly, it is alone suffici­ent; Qui effectus pluri­bus debetur perpe­ram ascribitur vni. otherwise, this effect of making the man of God perfect, and throughly instructed, could not be ascribed to it alone, as it is manifestly done in the Apostles speech.

When two persons equally co-worke, we cannot ascribe the whole worke to one of them alone, but to both. Bread alone being one part of Food, is not sufficient to all kind of Nutri­ment. C The Apostle in the Text alledged affirming, first, That the Scripture is able to make wise vnto saluation: secondly af­firming, That [...], the whole Scripture (as Dionysius Carthu­sian expoundeth it [...]. Com. Omnis Scriptura &c. id est, tota Ca­nonica Scriptura, &c. Chrysost. 2. Tim. Hom. 9 Si quid vel discere vel ignora­re op' fit ex illis ad discemus, si argu­ere falsitatem inde hauriemus: si cor­rigi, si castigari ad exhortationem & solatium si quid desit & oporteat addipisci, ex [...] dis­cemus.) giuen by inspiration, is profitable to teach, confute, instruct, reproue; and then declaring the great­nesse of the vtilitic, which is, to make the man of God perfect, and throughly instructed to euerie good worke Oecumen. [...].: This effect cannot be ascribed to a partiall cause, neither can the Apostle meane, that the whole Scripture is profitable, or sufficient onely as one part of Diuine Reuelation, but because it containeth the D whole Rule of Faith.

If any shall pretend, That the Scripture is not sufficient of it selfe to these effects, because Diuine Grace, Ecclesiasticall Mi­nisterie, Docilitie in the Hearer or Reader, are necessarie (toge­ther with the Scripture) to make the man of God perfect; they must vnderstand, that our question is, Whether holy Scripture alone be a sufficient rule of Faith? Not whether other adiu­uant causes be necessarie for the receiuing and applying there­of, that it may produce Faith. The Earth is sufficient to bring forth food for man, Gen. 1. 29. although Husbandmen and E Grasiers be necessarie. Manna, Quailes, and the water flowing from the Rocke, were sufficient to feed the children of Israel in the Desart; yet Bakers and Cookes were necessarie to prepare and dresse this food, Exod. 16.6.24. Sap. 16.21. Euen so, the [Page 44] holy Scripture is sufficient, as a Rule, to teach all Doctrine ne­cessarie A for our spirituall nourishment, although the Ministerie of man, and Diuine Grace, be needfull also, that wee rightly vse the same. If the Obiection were good, to wit, Holy Scripture is not the onely Rule, because by it alone, without Diuine Grace and Ecclesiasticall Ministerie, &c. wee cannot beleeue, then Tradition and holy Scripture being conioyned, to make vp the Rule of Faith, the same will yet be insufficient, because without Diuine Grace, Ecclesiasticall Ministerie, and Docilitie in the people, neither Scripture nor Tradition can produce Faith. B

IESVIT.

Hence also we may conclude that the many allegations of Fathers, which Protestants bring to prooue the Scrip­ture to be cleere in all substantiall points, are impertinent, because the Fathers speake of men aforehand instructed in all substantiall points, who may by the light of Tradition easily discouer in Scripture, as they that heard Aristotle explicate himselfe by word of mouth, may vnderstand his C Booke of Nature, most difficill to bee vnderstood of them that neuer heard his explication, either out of his owne mouth, or by Tradition of his schollers.

ANSWER.

Out of your owne fancies you may conclude what you please: but from the Fathers nothing can be concluded, repug­nant to that which Protestants hold, concerning the perspicui­ty D of sacred Scripture, euen in it selfe. Ireneus saith Iren. lib. 2. c. 46. Vniuersae Scriptu­rae Propheticae & Euangelicae, in a­perto & sine ambi­guitate, & similitèr ab omnibus audiri possunt., All the Scrip­tures both Propheticall and Euangelicall, are cleere without ambiguity, and may indifferently bee heard of all men. S. Hierom Hieron. super Esa. cap. 19. Mos est Scripturarū obscu­ris manifesta sub­nectere., It is the manner of the Scripture to ioine that which is manifest to such things as are obscure. S. Cyril Cyril. c. Iulian. lib. 7. p. 60. Vt omnibus essent nota paruis & magnis, vtilitèr familiari sermone commen­data E sunt vt nullius captum transcendant., That they may be knowne of all people both small and great, they are profitably commended vnto vs in a famili­ar kind of speaking, that they may exceed the capacitie of none. S. Augustine Aug. ad Volus. Ep. 3. & d. verb. Ap. Serm. 13. & d. vtil. Cred. c. 6. & sup. Psal. 88. Eder. [...]. Bibl. lib. 1. p. 52. Media inter [...] duo veluti extrema sententia D. est August. Epist. ad Volus. Vbi literas sacras non quidem vsquè adeò difficiles esse, quin ex ijs studio & diligentia tantum quisquè possit assequi quantum ci ad salutem, vtile sit atquè necessarium., Plaine places are found in them to expound and open the darke and hard. S. Gregorie Greg. Praefat. Iob. ad Leandr. ca. 4. Habet in publico vndè paruulos nutriat, &c., The Scripture hath so much in [Page 45] open [...] as may feed little ones. S. Chrysoft. Chrys. d. verb. Eia. Hom. 2. Scrip­turae non sunt me­ralla quae indigent operarijs, sed the­saurū praebent pa­ratum [...] qui quae­runt opes in [...] reconditas. Satis est enim introspex­isse vt omni expleti fructu [...]. Satis est [...] a­peruisse vt illicò videas gemmarum splendorem. [...]. d. Sum. Bon. li. 1. [...]. 18. Simplices inue­niunt modicos in­tellectus ad quos ipsi humiles refu­giunt. [...]. Ex­plic. Euang. Lectio­nis sacrae [...] imbecillis bacculū meruosis arma mi­nistrat, &c. Acost. d. Christ. Reuel. lib. 2. cap. 2. Ita prouidit dulcis pater vt mul­ta sint in sacris li­teris aperta, histo­rica, [...], &c. At­què hoc est in diui­na Scriptura om­ninò mirabile, ne­minē esse tàm ru­dem & imperitum quin si humilitèr legat multa illic v­tilia veraquè intel­ligat., Scriptures are [...] A like mettals, which haue need of workemen to digge them out, but they deliuer a treasure readie at hand, for them which seeke hidden riches in them. It is sufficient to looke into them, that you may depart repleni­shed with all fruit, it is sufficient onely to open them, that you may pre­sently behold the splendor of their pearles. And although the anti­ent Fathers do many times referre people to Tradition Cassandr. Def. D lib. d. Offic. Bon. viri, pa. 820. Intelligentia Scripturae quae ex Traditione percipitur, non est ab ipsa. Scriptu­ra seperanda, cum in [...] continentur vel tanquam definitio in definito vel tanquam [...] in [...]. Cum [...] huic seu Traditioni Cathol. seu [...], non scripta authoritas in [...] dijudicatione [...], nihil ipsi Scripturae subtrahitur, cum nihil aliud sit quam mens & intelligentia Scripturae antiquitus nobis tradi­ta quae vt scripta non sit in eis tamen quae sctipta sunt continetur. espe­cially in three cases: First, For the testifying of the number and integritie of the Bookes of Canonical Scripture: Second­ly, For the cleering of some hard or ambiguous Texts of Scrip­ture, from the new and forged expositions of Heretickes: B Thirdly, For externall rites and ceremonies: yet neither the Fathers, nor the more learned Papists themselues [...]. [...]. Com. sup. Genes. [...]. C. Luther, at. 18. Abul. Defens. part. 2. ca. 18. pa. 39. [...] 22. q. 1. [...]. [...], pag. 38. [...]. 4. d. 5. q. 1. [...]. 1., do hold that there is a large and general Commentarie of all the Scriptures, or of all the difficill places thereof, receiued from the Apo­stles, and preserued vntill our daies; neither doe the Fathers [...]. Lir. c. Haer. cap. 39. Quae tamen antiquorum patrum sententia non in omnibus diuinae [...], sed solùm certè praecipuè, in fidei regula magno nobis studio & [...] est & [...]. [...] ca. 41. Vt ad vnam Ecclesiastici sensus regulam Scripturae caelestis intelligentia [...], in [...] praecipuè quae­stionibus quibus totius Catholici Dogmatis [...] nitantur. hold, that people cannot read the holy Scripture with profit, or collect the true meaning of them in points substantiall and necessarie, without such a Commentarie.

First, If such a Commentarie were extant, it must be found in the elder Fathers, Tertullian, Ireneus, Origen, &c. But the Pa­pists C themselues Ioh. Picus. Mirand. Apol. q. 1. Ego hoe dico & firmitèr assero, non valere istam consequentiam, [...] est contrà Aug. [...]. Greg. [...], Ergo est haeretica. Quamuis [...] sanctorum Doctorum Scriptura extrà Canonem Bibliae [...], fit habenda & legenda & non tamèn sunt [...] dicta, ità firmae authoritatis & immobilitatis, vt eis contradicere non liceat. will not alwaies be tied to their Expositi­ons, as appeareth by their forsaking of Tertullian in the Expo­sition of the wordes of the Gospell, Hoc est corpus meum Greg. Val. tom. 4. pag. 1073., This is my bodie; and by their forsaking of Origen Orig. sup. Math. tract. 1. In vnoquoquè perfecto habente congregationem eorum E qui complent [...], verborum, factorum, & sensuum, est quae à Deo aedificatur Ecclesia. Quod si super vnum illum Petrum tantum existimas aedificatam totam Ecclefiam, quid dicturus es de Iohanne filio [...], & Apostolorum vnoquoquè. Vide Genebrard. Collectam in Orig. in many of his Expositions; and againe of Tertullian Tertul. d. pudicit. cap. 21. Si quia dixerit Petro dominus, super hanc petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam, & [...] praesumis, adte deriuasse [...] & aligandi potestatem, id est ad [...] Ecclesiam [...], qualis es [...] atquè commutans mani­festam domini [...], &c. Read [...] in [...] [...]. n. 186. Censuring and condemning this Exposition. in his Expositi­on of Math. 16. 17.

Secondly, The Exposition of Scripture, giuen by the Fa­thers, is many times repugnant, and different each of them from other, as Sixtus Senensis in his Bibliotheca, and Cardinall [Page 46] [...] in his Commentaries, and other Pontificians doe shew, [...] in Gen. l. 3. c. 2. q. 5. [...]. in 1. p. Tho. disput. 8. p-49. [...]. an. 34. n. 213. [...] [...]. l. 11. c. 6. [...]. c. Caje­tan. Gillius com. Theol. d. [...]. & d. Deo. l. 1. tr. 7. c. 11. [...]. loc. l. 5. c. 3. [...]. [...]. Quest. in 1. sent. q. 5. A but if there had beene a large and generall Commentarie of Scripture, or of all, or most of the harder places of Scripture, the antient Fathers, [...] nearest vpon the Apostles, must haue knowne and followed that, and so could neither haue er­red in exposition, nor differed one for the other.

Thirdly, the Fathers affirme; that the Scripture expounds it selfe; Aug. d. verb. [...]. Serm. 2. Aug. Ipsa ver­ba Euangelica se­cum portant expo­sitiones suas. Idem. d. doct. Christ. l. 2. c. 6. Nihil ferè de illis obscuritatibus eruitur, quod non [...] dictum alibi reperitur. & d. vnit. Eccles. c. 5. p. 427. Chrys. sup. Gen. Hom. 13. Chrys. Sacra Scriptura seipsam [...]. Basil. l. 2. d. Bapt. Eorum quae ab ipso dicta sunt ex his quae in alio loco dicta sunt ve­ritatem ac salutare discamus. Greg. sup. Ezech. Hom. 7. Di­uina eloquia, cum legente [...] nam [...] illa quis (que) [...] intel­ligit, [...] in eis alti' [...]. Acost. d. Christ. Reuel. l. 3. c. 21. Nihil mihi vi­detur sic [...], vt [...]. [...]; diligens, attenta, frequens [...] tum medita­tio & collatio Scrip­turarū, omniū [...] regula, ad intelligendū semper est visa, nam ex alijs Scripturis aliae optimè intelliguntur: tum phrasis ipsa, tum [...] familiaris [...] vt assuetis jam [...] intelligcntia pateat. Ita (que) obscurā aperta, dubiā certa interpretātur. E And they doe not alwayes referre men to Tradition, concerning exposition of Scripture, but pre­scribe other rules and meanes also. Aug. d, Doctr. Christ. l. 4. c. 30. B &c. Chrys. sup. Gen. Hom. 21. & sup. Rom. Hom. 13. & sup. Iohn Hom. 39. Tertul. c. prax. Hilar d. Trinit. l. 5. Ambros. [...]. Psal. 118. Serm. 8. Origen. Mat. Hom. 25.

Fourthly, that which the Aduersarie affirmeth touching the Fathers, to wit, that they held the Scriptures to be cleare in all substantiall points, onely to men beforehand instructed, by the light of Tradition, is vntrue; neither doe the Fathers speake of Tradition according to the Romish acceptation.

First, sometimes the Fathers exhort heathen men, which were not instructed by Tradition, to reade the Scriptures. Theo­philus C Antiochenus saith to Autolicus, [...]. [...]. Tom. 1. p. 898. l. 1. ad [...]. being as then a Pagan, Ve­rum tu ipse si placet consule liter as sacras: But doe thou thy selfe if it seeme good vnto thee, consult with the holy Scriptures. Also they prouoke Heretikes, which denied the Tradition of the Church, to examine truth by Scriptures: August. d. vnit. Ec­cles. c. 2.3.16. & contra Maxim. Arrian. l. 3. c. 14. Socrates Hist. lib. 1. cap. 6.

Secondly, by Tradition they vnderstand not the fabulous dreames and inuentions of Papals, Gerson. d. fig. Ruin. Eccl. sig. 8. Fabulae sunt & non sanae Doctrinae, &c. Idem. d. spir. vit. anim. l. 2. Has vero Traditiones hominum quis cunctas dinumeret in Canonibus summorū pontificum in constitutionibus Synodalibus prouinciarum aut Diocesium, in Religionum regulis. [...]. Bacon. l. 3. sent. [...]. who like the Pharisees cor­rupt the right sence of Scripture, by their vnwritten Traditi­ons, D and affirme those things to bee Apostolicall, which agree with the confessed Doctrine of the Apostles, like darkenesse with light: But the Fathers by Tradition, vnderstand such ex­position of Scripture, as was vniformely receiued, and com­mended for Apostolicall, by the Primatiue Church, and which besides antiquitie, or the report of men, appeared to bee Apo­stolicall, by an exact harmonie and consent with the Text of the holy Scripture, to which it was applied. S ^t. August. Aug. Quod autem nos admonet vt ad fontem recurramus, id est ad Apostolicā Traditionē & in­de [...] in nostra tempora dirigamꝰ, optimū est & sine dubitatione faciendū. Traditū est ergo nobis sicut ipse comemorat Apostolꝰ, quod sit vnus Christus & vnꝰ Deus & vna spes, & vna fides, & vna Ecclesia & Baptisma vnū. d. [Page 47] Bapt. c. Donatist. l.5, c.26. S ^t. Cyprian. Epist. 74. Tertul. d. prae­script. c.21. Ruffin. Hist. Ecclesiast. l.2. c.9. A

IESVIT.

I hope I haue in the opinion of your most learned Maie­stie, sufficiently demonstrated the first ground of Catho­licke faith, to wit, that a Christian is originally and funda­mentally built vpon the word of God, not as written [...] Scriptures, but as deliuered by the Tradition of the Church, B successiuely from the Primatiue, vpon the authority where­of we beleeue, that both Scriptures and all other substan­tiall Articles of Faith were deliuered by the Apostles, thence further ascending and inferring they came from Christ, and so from God the prime veritie and Authour of truth.

ANSVVER. C

You haue played the Paralogist, and weaued a spiders web, which is fitter to catch flyes, than to persuade so religious, lear­ned, iudicious, and resolute a king, who is like an Angell of God, know­ing good and euill. Your obiections being weighed in the bal­lance of the Sanctuarie, are found light, they are Funiculus va­nitatis, a coard and bundle of vanitie, a potsheard couered ouer with the drosse of siluer. His most learned Maiestie (as you truly stile him) honoureth genuine and Orthodox all Tradition, as no re­ligious king, or good Christian can doe more, and hereupon, to D wit, vpon the testimony of Tradition (besides other Argu­ments) he beleeueth that you and your consorts are deceiued, [...]. [...] Tom. 1. an. 53. n. 11. Greg. Val. To. 3. p. 347. Posseu. [...]. 1. 2. c. 25. [...]. loc. 3. when you hold that a Christian is originally and fundamen­tally built vpon the word of God, not as written in Scripture, but as deliuered by Tradition, &c. For if the Scripture, accor­ding to the doctrine and Tradition of the Primatiue Church, is eminentissimae authoritatis Anton. Perez. Pentateuch. Fid. vol. 3. disp. 15. c. 12. Respondeo vere ac jure authoritatem Scripturae, praelatā omninò efse autho­ritati Ecclesiae, tanquam verbum Dei, omni alio verbo creato, etiam irrefragabili, quia longe majus est Deum per seipsum loqui, quam [...] Ecclesiae infallibiter loquenti, [...] dirigere ne aberret. p. 101. col. 2. [...] praef. prol. sup. 1. sent. Scientia sacrae Scripturae habet prae caeteris dignitatem eminentiae, quasi [...]. Sicut enim principium dignius est alijs propositionibus in scientia, vnde & dignitas [...]: sic recte [...] scien­tia [...] est, & inter ipsas [...] principatum. of most eminent authoritie: If it be the seed, of which faith is first of all conceiued: if it is the Rocke, whereupon the Church is built: if the authoritie of vn­written Tradition dependeth vpon it, and must bee examined E [Page 48] by it. If the Churches authoritie is [...] from it, then a A Christian is originally and fundamentally built vpon it.

First, That which is most excellent in euery kind, is the mo­dell and paterne of all the rest Aristot. Me­taph. li. 2. cap. 2. A­quin. p. 3. q. 56. ad. 3. Sempèr id quod est [...], est exemplat [...] quod est minus [...], secundum eius mo­dum. but I trow you will grant the Scripture to be the most excellent part of Gods word Card. [...]. In Vesper. Re­com. Script. In cu­ius montis vertice, Christus suum ha­bitaculum praedis­ponens ibi Eccle­siae suae fundamen­tum posuit & in al­tissimo veritatis [...], sacrae scrip­turae veritate, fun­dauit ipsam., 2. Pet. 1. [...]. S. [...] c. [...]. Manich. li. 11 cap. 5. & d. Ciuit. Dei, lib. 11. cap. 3. & Ibid. [...]. 14. cap. 7. & d. Vnit. Eccles. Aug. d. vnit. Eccles. ca. 16. Haec sunt causae nostrae [...], hec sun­damenta, haec fir­mamenta. Legimus in Actibus Aposto­lorum dictum de quibusdā credenti­bus quod quotidiè scrutarentur Scrip­turas, an haec ita se haberent. Quas ita­què Scripturas nisi Canonicas legis & Prophetarum? Huc accesserunt [...] Apostolicae [...], Actus Apostolorū, Apocal Iohannis, scrutami­ni haec omnia & eruite aliquid manifestum quo demonstretis Ecclesiam. 16. Chris. d. [...]. Hom. 4. Oecumen. sup. 2. Tim. 3. Ansel. sup. 2. Tim. 3.

Secondly, A Christian is fundamentally built vpon the rock, but the Scripture is a rocke. Cardinalis Camaracensis [...]. vespert. [...]. sacrae Scripturae Card. Camerac. Sacra Scriptura D Christi testimonijs in [...] fundata spiritualitèr intelligi potest, illa firma petra supra quam aedificata est Ec­clesia. Idem. In quolibet aedificio rationabilitèr ordinato, primò praecedit fundatio, secundò procedit aedificatio, [...] succedit consummatio, hoc igitur modo [...] omnium [...], super Scripturae sacrae petram [...] suam aedificauit. Idem. Christus Dei virtus & Dei sapientia Ecclesiae suae domum quam interna mente concepit, super sacrae Scripturae fundamentum temporali aedificatione compleuit. Chrys. Math. Hom. 46. Hieru­salem hic semper Ecclefiam intellige, quae dicitur ciuitas pacis cujus sundamenta posita sunt super montes Scrip­turarum., In euery building orderly framed, the foun­dation B hath precedence, then followeth superedification, and lastly con­summation. According to this order, Christ the most exact Architect did build his Church vpon the rocke of holy Scripture.

Thirdly, The seed of Faith is the root and foundation of [...] Christian, the Scripture is the seed of Faith Aug. d. Ciuit. Dei, lib. 19. ca. 18. Credit Scripturis Sanctis veteribus & nouis, quas Canonicas appellamus, vnde fides ipsa concepta est, qua [...] viuit. ( Iohn 20. 41.) for it is the word of God, Luc. 8.11. Iam. 1.18. 1. Cor. 4, 15. And were the Popish Tenet true, that the Scripture is not the whole word of God, but only a part thereof, yet a Chri­stian must be originally and fundamentally built vpon it, toge­ther with Tradition Vinc. Lir. c. Haer. ca. 1. Duplici modo munire fidem, primo scilicet Diuinae legis authoritate deindè Catholicae Ecclesiae Traditione. Ib. c. 41. And Tradition according to the Tenet of C our Aduersarie in this place, cannot be the sole foundation of Christianitie, but only a part of the foundation.

Fourthly, All Scripture giuen by diuine Inspiration is sim­ply and without exception to be receiued: and all Tradition repugnant to Scripture is to be refused Basselis. Praef. prol. sup. 1. sent. Scriptura est veritas aliarum exemplaris, &c.. From hence it fol­loweth, that Scripture is a rule of Tradition, and not Tradition of Scripture; and Scripture is the highest rule (as both the Fathers Athan. d. Synod. [...]. Et Se­leuc. pa. 673. Hieron. sup. Galath. ca. 1. and many Papists Aug. Triumph. d. Pot. Ecclef. q. 100. ar. 1. Primum locum autho­ritatis tenet Scriptura veteris & noui Testamenti. Andrad. Def. li. 2. pa. 171. Neminem inficiare diuinorum [...] cognitionem ex [...] literis [...] petendam [...], illasquè imprimis consulendas, cum res [...] in [...] questionemquè vocatur &c. Anton. Perez. Pentateuch. Fid. vol. 3. Dub. 18. ca. 14. Vndè com­paratione E hujus (Scripturae) testimonium Ecclesiae, dici quodammodò potest testimonium hominum [...] quod in rigore Sermonis non obtinet proprietates & [...] ad rationem verbi Dei, & proindè respectu etiàm illius intelligi potest id quod a beato Iohanne scriptum est [...] hominum accipitis, testimonium Deimajus est. [...] c. 15. Testimonium Scripturae in seipso [...] & [...] est quam testimonium [...] quià illud ab intrinseco est verbum Dei, hoc vero ab [...]. Caiet. d. Author. Pap. & Concil. p. 2. ca. 4. & Apolog. c. [...]. ca. 23. ad. 5. themselues affirme) and thus it is [Page 49] certaine, that a Christian is orignally and fundamentally built A vpon the holy Scripture.

IESVITS 2 ^d, Ground.

That there is a visible Church alwaies in the world, to whose Traditions men are to cleaue, and the Church is one Vniuersall, Apostolicall, Holy.

ANSWER. B

The subiect of this Proposition, to wit, Ecclesia, the Church is a word or terme of diuers significations Suar. d. Fid. disp. 5. sect. 6. Eccle­siae nomen varias habet significatio­nes. Card. Monilian. Theol. Instit. Com­pend. c. 34. Ne labo­remus in [...] est de sin­gulis [...] signi­ficatis. [...]. Sum. d. Ecclel. lib. 1. cap. 2. [...]. Quest. Vesp. Recom. Scrip. cap. 3. d. 2. Gabriel. Can. Miss. lect. 21. & lect. 75. Occham. Dialog. p. 1. li. 1. c. 4., and therefore the Iesuit should haue declared in what notion he taketh the same, when he saieth, There is a visible Church, &c. First Car­dinall Bellarmine Bellarm. d. Eccles. lib. 3. ca. 2. Ecclesia est caetus [...] fidei Christianae [...], & [...] Sacramentorum communione colligatum, sub regimine [...] pastorum, ac praecipuè [...] Christi in [...] Vicarij Romani [...]. Tres sunt partes [...]: professio verae fidei: Sacramentorum communio & subiectio ad [...] Pastorem Rom. Pontificem., with other Pontificians Greg. [...]. Analys. fid. li. 6. ca. 1. Martin. Eisengren. li. d. Eccles. Cath. ca. 1., saith, that the Church whereof he disputes, is a companie of people linked together by the same profession of Faith, and Communion of Sacraments vnder lawfull pastros, [...] vnder the Roman Bishop, who is Christs Vicar. C

Secondly, The terme (Church) is taken in the holy Scripture for the vniuersall number of holy beleeuers in all ages; and more strictly, for the whole number of holy beleeuers vnder the New Testament, Heb. 12.23. Apoc. 5.9. Ephes. 5.25.27. D and thus it comprehendeth both the Church Militant, and Triumphant Aug. [...]. c. 56. Quae tota hic accipienda est, non solú ex parte qua [...] terris, &c. Verum etiam ex illa quae in coelis, &c. Templú Dej hoc est totius summae illius Trinitatis sancta est Ecclesia, [...], vniuersa in Coelo & in terra Id. sup. Psalm. 56. Nec [...] quae [...] est in hominibus qui presentem vitam agunt, sed ad eam [...], etiam his qui fuerunt antè [...], & futuri sunt post nos vsquè ad [...] Seculi. Id. sup. Psal. 90. conc. 2. Orig. in [...]. Hom. 2. Greg. Mor. li. 28. c. 6. & in Psal. 5. Paenit. [...]. Resol. li. 4. c. 14. n. 10..

Thirdly, the Church is taken for the common and vniuersall multitude of Christian people, of any one or more ages, which are baptised, and externally professe Christianitie. And accor­ding E to this notion, it comprehendeth both the good and the bad, the cleane and the vncleane Aug. d. Ciuit. Dei li. 18. cap. 49. & sup. [...]. tr. 6. & d. V­nit. Eccles. c. 13. [...]. Ep. 51. & Ep. 52. Hieron. c. Luci­fer. [...]. d. Fid. ad Petr. ca. 43. [...]. Naz. c. Iulian. Orat. 1. 1. [...]. d. Sacer. li. 3. Greg. in [...] Hom. 11. Chrysolog. Serm. 47. Franc. Pic. Mirand. Theor. 13. of that profession, 2. Tim. 2. 20. Math. 13.25.47. Math. 3.12. &c. 22.10.

[Page 50] [...], it is taken for Particular Societies, and congregations A of Christians, Apoc. 1.4. & 2.1. and sometimes it is taken for the Pastors of particular Churches, Math. 18.17. sometimes for the People, Acts 20.28. sometimes for the whole Flocke, consisting of Pastors and People cyprian. Epist. 69. Illi sunt Eccle­fia, plebs Sacerdoti adunita & pastori suo grex adhaerens., Apoc. 3.6. But it is neuer taken in holy Scripture for the Pope and Councell camer. Quest. Vesp. Recom. script. p. 278. Gabriel. sup. Can. Miss. lect. 75.. If the Iesuit in his Proposition, There is a visible Church alwaies in the world, &c. understand the [...] (Church) in the first Notion, then it is de­nied that we are absolutely to adhere to the Traditions of this Church, or that the same is alwaies and intirely, One, Vniuersal, Apostolicall, Holy, according to the meaning of the Apostles, B and Nicene Franc. Picus, Theor. 4. In Sym­bolo edito Nicece, &c. [...]. Creed.

Secondly, according to the second Notion, the Church is not visible, for a principall part thereof is in heauen, and the other moetie militant vpon earth, being considered as elect and holy, is knowne intuitiuely to God only, 2. Tim. 2.19. and mo­rally, coniecturally, and according to the iudgement of Chari­tie to men in this world, 2. Thess. 2.13. Tertul. d. prae­script. c. 3. Tu vt ho­mo [...] vnumquenquè nosti, putas quod vides, Vides autem quousquè oculos habes. Sed oculi [...] C alti. Homo in faciem Deus in praecordia contemplatur. Et ideo cognoscit Dominus qui sunt eius, &c. Cusan. Con­cord. Cath. li. 1. ca. 4. Nullum est iudicium certum, de membris Ecclefiae, nisi in modò renatis infantibus.

Thirdly, according to the third Notion, the Church is visi­ble in all ages, and some part thereof teacheth and professeth right Faith in all substantiall and fundamentall articles. And we are to cleaue to the Traditions of the same, so farre as in the deliuerie thereof it exceedeth and transgresseth not the bounds of lawfull authoritie [...]. 2. d. 44. q. 3. nu. 9. Eccle­sia licet habet in terris dominationé Dei illa tamen non excedit limitationé Scripturae., and teacheth according to the rule of Gods word. S. Chrysostome saith, Because Seducers are often found even in true Churches, we are not to beleeue, vnlesse they D speake and do that which is consonant to the Scriptures Chrys. imperf­in Math. 49. Nec ip­fis [...] (Eccle­sijs) oredendum est, nisi ea dicant vel faciant quae conue­nientia sunt Scrip­turis.. And in another place Id. in 2. Tim. Hom. 2. Plus aliquid dicam, ne paulò quidem [...] fi quid [...], fi quid humamam, sed Apo­stolo Christum in fe loquentem circumferenti. E, [...]. If the Priest teach any peruerse Doctrine, giue no credit, yea though he were an Angell. Nay I will presume to say more than this, [...], one ought not beleeue Paul, if he should preach any thing humane, or of himselfe, but as he is an Apostle, and hath Christ speaking in him.

Lastly, according to the fourth Acceptation, there are euer in the world particular Churches and societies of Christians, and euery one of these Churches professe some portion of di­uine veritie. But we must enquire by the rule of Gods word, [Page 51] which of these are pure and orthodoxall, and on the contra­rie, A which of them are infected with errors Hilar. in Matth. Canon. 8. Ecclesiae inter quas verbum Der non [...] Ora. 1. c. Arrian. Bonum est, vel potius necessarium, optare gratiam discerquos abijcere, vt [...] cognoscat, secudum Ioannis Praeceptum (1. [...]. 4. 1.) quos abijcere, [...] vt amicos, & qui ciusdem naturae [...], recipere [...]., and imbrace the Doctrine of the one, and auoid the Corruptions of the other.

Remarkable Obseruations concer­ning the Church.
OBSERVATION I. B

THe externall visible Church is an intermixed August. d. [...]. Christ. Lib. 3. [...]. [...]. de corpore Domini vero atque [...], &c. or com­pounded societie, bodie, and state of Christian people professing the faith and worship of Christ, in which are found sheepe and goats, wheat and tares, gold and drosse, good fishes and bad, and vessels of honour and dishonour.

This common and generall societie and bodie consisteth of diuers particular Churches, consenting and agreeing in the professing of some part of diuine veritie: and of these Chur­ches some are orthodoxall, some are impure in faith and religi­on, C and also these being compared are respectiuely purer or im­purer. And within the compasse of each particular Church the members are better or worse, more or lesse holy or corrupt.

OBSERVAT. II.

Whereas the Church hath many Titles and Properties be­longing to it, and Christ Iesus the Head thereof hath made sun­drie Promises, and conferred diuerse Graces vpon it; wee must consider, which part of the Church is the proper subiect of these Qualities, Promises, and Graces August. Praef. in Psal. 47. Secundam Sabbathi non debe­mus intelligere nisi Ecclesiam Christi, sed Ecclesiā Christi in sanctis, Ecclesiam Christi in hijs qui scripti [...] in [...], Ecclesiam Christi in hijs qui tentati­onibus mundi non cedunt. Ipsi enim digni sunt nomine firmamenti. Ergo Ecclesia Christi in hijs qui firmi sunt, de quibus dicit Apostolus, debemus autem nos firmi infirmitatem infirmortum suftinere, Rom. 15. appellata est firmamentum. Tho. [...]. 10. 1. h. 2. E ar. 2. c. 11. Vocabula summx laudis & excellentiae tituli quamuis indistinctè per Scriptturas de tota [...] Ec­clesia tamen de sola gloriofa parte eius debent intelligi. Aug. c. Don. li. 5. ca. 27. Quod in Cant. Cantic. Ecclesia sic describitur, Hortus conclusus, [...] mea sponsa, sons [...], puteus aquae vinae, Paradisus cum cum fructu pomorum, hoc intelligere non audeo, nisi in iustis & sanctis. Bernard. sup. Cantic. Ser. 68. Et quid sponsa, [...] congre­gatio [...]? quid ipsa, [...] generatio [...] Dominum, [...] sponfi?: For it is apparant, That D as Sheepe and Goats, Chaffe and Wheat, Gold and Drosse, are of a contrarie kind, although they are intermixed; so likewise the Affections and Attributes of the same, although they are spoken in generall of the whole Subiect (as an Heape which hath Wheat and Chaffe, a Field which hath Wheat and Tares, are called an Heape of Graine, a Field of Wheat) yet many of them appertaine formally, and indeed, onely to the better part of the common Subiect.

OBSERVAT. III. A

In the visible societie of Christian people, there are found (according to S. Augustine Aug. [...]. Psal. 61. [...] d. Doctr. [...]. [...]. 3. c. 37. Est enim ipse (Dia­bolus) caput impi­orum, qui sunt erus quodammodo cor­pus, ituri cum illo in supplieium ae­terni ignis: Sicut Christus caput est Ecclesiae, quae est corpus [...] cum illo in regno & gloria sempiterna. B) Citizens of the heauenly Hieru­salem, and also Inhabitants of Babylon. And (as the same Fa­ther teacheth) Notum est ciues malae Ciuitatis, administrare quos­dam actus, [...] Ciuitatis: It is manifest, that (in the visible Church) Burgers of the wicked Citie Babylon, doe administer some Functions of the holy Citie Hierusalem. Ioh. 12.6. 2. Ti­moth. 4.10. Apoc. 3.14, 15. Phil. [...]). Ioh. 3.9.

The Promises of Christ made to the Church concerning his August. Ioh. tr. 11. Quomodo in [...], non obfuit illis [...] de ancillis nati [...], quo min' tenerent regnum, & terram promissi­onis cum fratribus, ex [...] acciperent non illis obsuerant natales ancillarum sed praeualuit semé paternum: sic qui­cunque per malos C baptizantur, tanquam de ancillis videntur nati, tamen quia ex [...] verbi Dei quod figuratur in Iacob, simul cum fratribus haredittatem [...]. August. ibid. tr. 5. Spiritualis virtus Sacramenti ita est vt lux, ab illuminandis pura accipitur, & si per [...] transeat, non [...]. Idem, ep 3. ad [...]. tants est diuina potentia gratiae vt per malos acquirat bonos, & per reprobos & improbos, acquirat & colligat probos. Idem, contra Parmen. Lib. 2. cap. 8. Verba bona quae pro populo dicuntur in precibus, etiamsi a malis dicantur, Episcopis exaudiuntur tamen non pro peruersitate praepositorum sed pro deuotione populorum. cbrysof. sup. Ioh. Hom. 85. & sup. 1. [...]. Hom. 8. pag. 383. Scot. 4. d. 5. -d. 1. presence and assistance, to his Word and Sacraments, preached and administred according to his commandement, are fulfilled, when wicked persons execute the office, and performe the worke of outward [...]. For although wicked persons, like the Carpenters of Noahs Arke, reape no benefit to them­selues, yet God Almightie concurreth with their Ministerie (being his owne Ordinance) for the saluation of all deuout and worthie Communicants.

OBSERVAT. IIII.

Some things are spoken of the Church in common, or gene­rall tearmes, to shew what the whole is in respect of Gods out­ward D vocation, or what the office and dutie of the whole Church is: but the same promises, properties, and priuiledges are really fulfilled or found in the better and sounder part there­of onely [...]. Lapid. [...]. [...]. ca. 2. v. 4. [...] vel Ecclesiae promittit, quantumuis amplis & vniuersalibus verbis, id tamen de [...] cum Deo promittente & paciscente seruant intelligendum esse. [...]. 71..

When our Sauiour promiseth, that the gates of Hell shall not preuaile against the Church ( Matth. 16.18.) he vnderstan­deth such a Church as heareth and obeyeth his word [...]. d. [...]. 3. E Obiect, Lex & [...] Dei absoluta insallibiliter [...] non sit dispositio ex parte nostra [...]. 16. 17. & 28. 20. &c. Resp. [...] est [...] solum in [...] decretis dei dei absolutis, super co quod [...] est sine nobis, vel sine [...] actionum [...], non est aurem [...] antecedens in his [...], etiamsi sint acti­ons publicae, siue communes Papae & [...] in [...], [...] tales promissiones intelliguntur quod implebuntur secundum nostram dispositionem., and not [Page 53] a visible companie or Hierarchie of Prelates, which forsake his A word, and doe what they list. August. d. Vnit. Ecclesiae, cap. 18. Ecclesia in his est qui adificant supra Petram, id est qui credunt ver­bum Christi, & faciunt, & d. Baptismo, Lib. 6. cap. 24. Nonne illi sunt in Ecclefia, qui sunt in Petra? Qui autem in Petra non sunt, nec in Ecclesia sunt, iam ergò videamus, vtrum super Petram aedifici­um suum constituant, qui audiunt Christi verba & non faciant. Saint Augustine in these words deliuereth three things: first, The Church is in them which build vpon the Rocke: secondly, They are not in the Church, which are not in the Rocke: third­ly, They onely build vpon the Rocke, and are in the Rocke, B which beleeue and obey the word of Christ Orig. in [...]. Hom. 1. Petra est omnis qui imitator est Christi & super omnes [...], aedificatur Ecclesia Dei. Aug. c. Don. Lib. 3. cap. 18. Petra tenet, Petra dimittit, columba tenet, columna di­mittit, vnitas tenet, vnitas dimittit, pax autem huius vnitatis in solis bonis est, vel iam spirituahbus, vel ad spi­ritualia concordi vnitate, proficientibus, [...] malis, autem non est, &c. Ibid. Lib. 6. cap. 3. & Lib 7. cap. 51. Idem d. vnit. Eccles. cap. 16. Ego ipsam Ecclesiam requiro vbi sit, quae audiendo verba Christi, & faciendo aedificat supra Petram.. And this Do­ctrine of S. Augustine is taken out of the holy Scripture. Matth. 7.24. 1. Cor. 3.11. & 10.4.

Also when S. Paul saith, The Church is the ground and pillar of Truth Hieron. Sup. [...]. 26. Ipsa Eccle­sia quae est sancto­rum omnium con­gregatio, pro aeter­na sibi in Domino stabilitate, colum­na, & firmamen­tum, dicitur verita­tis. August. Praef. Psal. 47. Ecclesiam Christi in sanctis, Ecclesiam Christi in hijs qui scripti sunt in caelo &c. ipsi digni sunt nomine firmamenti Eccle­sia Christi in hijs qui sunt firmi &c. eam firmamentum Apostolicis [...] appellatam audi & agnosce. 1. Timoth. 3.15., 1. Tim. 3. 15. by the Church, hee vnderstandeth the C House of the liuing God, as the precedent part of his speech sheweth, to wit, If I tarrie long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behaue thy selfe in the House of God, &c. But they alone are verily and indeed the House of God, which beleeue and loue the Truth. S. August. Enchirid. c. 5.6. &c. Donatist. Lib. 7. cap. 50. Wicked people may be called Gods House, because of externall cal­ling, and visible profession, 2. Tim. 2. 20. Sed non sunt de compage domus, They are not of the frame of the House Gregor. Moral. Lib. 28. cap. 9. Intra has mensuras sunt omnes electi, extra has omnes Reprobi, etiamsi intra fidei limitem esse videantur., Heb. 3. 6. August. d. Bapt. Lib. 7. cap. 50. All they which couet earthly things, D preferring worldly felicitie before God; they which seeke their owne, and not those things which are Iesus Christs, ad vnam Ciuitatem illam pertinent, quae dicitur Babylonia mystice, & habet Regem Dia­bolum, belong onely to that Citie, which in a mysterie is called Baby­lon, and hath the Deuill the Head. Aug. sup. Psal. 61.

Wicked persons August. c. Don. Lib. 1. cap. 9 & 17. & Lib. 4. c. 4. &c. 7. E & Lib. 5. c. 16. & 19. & 24. & 26. & Lib. 6. c. 3. & 24. & Lib. 7. c. 50. Id. c. Petil. Lib. 2. c. 108. Id. Enchir. c. 56. Id. sup. Ioh. tr. 45. Id. sup. Psal. 47. & 106. Id d. vnit. Eccles. c. 19. Id. Ep. 51. Cyprian. Epist. 55. Orig. in Genes. Hom. 1. & [...] Ierem. Hom. 3. Basil. in Psal. 44. Chrysost. 2. Timoth. Hom. 5. Ambros. in Psal. 35. Hieron. in Iob. 26. & sup. Ephes. c. 5. Gregor. in Enang. Hom. 38. & Lib. 4. Moral. c. 9. &c. 15. & Lib. 20. c. 11. & Lib. 14. c. 19. & Lib. 16. c. 10. & sup. 5. Psal. Poenitent. Bernard. in Cantic. Serm. 68. (saith S. Augustine, Epist. 50.) figuram mem­bri tenent, retaine the figure or outward shape of a member, sed [Page 54] reuera corpus Domini non sunt, but they are not in truth the bo­die A of Christ ( August. d. Doct. Christ. Lib. 3. cap. 32.) In corpore Christi non sunt, quod est Ecclesia; They are not in the bodie of Christ, which is the Church. ( August. c. Crescon. Lib. 2. cap. 21.)

But they which are not of the Body of Christ, nor of the house of God, really, and in truth, doe not constantly preserue, or faithfully deliuer Apostolicall Traditions; neither are they one, or holy, nor yet such as the Spirit of God infallibly, and alwayes directeth in their publicke Doctrine.

OBSERVAT. V. B

The qualities of vnitie, holinesse, veritie, Apostolicall suc­cession, and other the like, are not alwayes found in the true Church equally, or in the same degree and measure of per­fection; but according to a latitude, and inequalitie of inten­sion and remission, and more or lesse: so that although the sounder part of the Church, hath alwayes the substance of truth, sanctitie, and vnitie; yet this veritie of Doctrine, vnitie of Charitie, sanctitie of Manners, is greater, larger, and more sincere and perfect in some persons and ages of the Church, C than in others. These qualities were in their greatest perfecti­on, when the Apostles themselues liued Euseb. Hist. Eccles. l. 3. c. 26. Ad illa vsque tempora, &c. Ecclesia inte­gra & incorrupta permanserat caete­rum postquam sa­cer Apostolorum Chorus varium vitae exitum & diuersa mortis genera, pertulerat, praeterierat (que) illorum aetas, quibus à Christo donatum erat vt auribus diuinam ipsius sapientiam coram acciperent: tunc certe falsa & veteratoria impij erro­ris conspiratio exordium caepit, idque illorum fraude & astutia qui doctrinam à veritate penitus alienam disse­minare laborarent: quique cum nemini Apostolorum amplius vita suppeteret, de caetero jam nudo capite (vt aiunt) syn cero veritatis sermoni falsam & commentitiam doctrinam ex aduerso opponere pro viribus [...]. D, they were in great measure, in the ages immediately abutting vpon the Apostles: But the holy Fathers complaine of the decrease and decay of them in after times Cyprian. Ep. 8. & d. lapsis num. 4. Chrys. 1. Cor. Hom. 36. & Math. imperf. Hom. 49. Hieron. Esay. c. 24. & sup. Mych. c. 7. & sup. Soph. c. 2. Saluian. d. gubernat. Dei l. 3. Greg. Euang. Hom. 17. & sup. Reg. l. 4.: And Papists deplore the extreme dimi­nution of them in their dayes Gerson. d. Circumcis. Serm. 1. confid. 1. & d. potest. Eccles. lect. 10. & Epist. Brugis scripta. Aluar. Pelag. d. planct. Eccles. [...] Eccles. Concil. Basil. apud [...]. p. 139. & p. 266. p. 267. & 275. & p. 523..

OBSERVAT. VI.

It falleth out sometimes in the outward state of the visible Church, that wicked persons (which are not sound parts of Gods house, nor liuing members of Christs mysticall bodie, E being more in number Onus Eccles. cap. 43. §. 1. Nunc in Ecclesia copio­fior Proh pudor, est numerus malo­rum quam bonorum, & praeualet impius aduersus justum. and greater in power) doe possesse the chiefe places of publicke Iudicature, and Ecclesiasticall go­uernment: and being thus exalted, and withall abetted by [Page 55] worldly power, and swarmes of time-feruers Occham. dial. p. 3. tr. 1. l. 3. [...]. 13. Quando multitudo clericorum, per a­uaritiam ambitio­nem, symoniam & adias vias prauas, ad ordines dignitates & beneficia, Eccle­siastica peruenisset, &c. Propter quod procliuiores essent clerici, ad assenti­endum errori Papae & generalis Con­cilij, quia humani moris est illum ve­reri, cuius iudicio & voluntate, nunc erigitur nunc deprimitur. Onus Eccles. c. 42. Et habebant caudas scil. assentatores, vel sequa­ces similes scorpionum & aculei erant in caudis earum., whom they A aduance and honour, to accomplish their owne ends: it may heereby fall out, that the outward state of the visible Church, shall be ordered and swayed, according to the lust and will of wicked rulers Hildegard. part. 2. l. diu. oper. citatur. Onus Eccles. c. 4. §. 5.: And then good men may be disgraced, depres­sed, and persecuted: the simple, and they which are negligent, Auentin. annal. Bojor. l. 6. proem. p. 479. Math. Paris: Chron. p. 7. Clerici & ordinati adeo literatura ca­rebant, vt caeteris effet [...], qui Grammaticam didicisset. vnlearned, and secure, may be deluded, and errour and super­stition, craftily and couertly be brought in, and that is fulfilled which Gregory saith; Dum mali praepositi, suam contra veritatem honorem exigunt, ab omni rectitudine corda sequentium abducunt Aug. sup. Psalm. 8. Qui gloriam suam potius quam salutem hominum attenderunt, sine spiritu sancto locuti sunt.: When wicked rulers seeke their owne glory more than truth, they mis­leade B their followers from all course of righteousnesse.

This happened in the Iewish Church, when the Scribes and Pharises and other hypocrites and errants were, [...], ma­ster-builders, Math. 21.41. And the euill seruant beareth rule C in the houshold, and oppresseth his fellow-seruants, Matth. 24. 49. Diotrophes excommunicates and vsurpes according to his owne will Cassand. Consult. p. 929. Ecclesiae, gu. bernatoribus quos aliquando hostes Dei esse contingit, &c. Nam vt inquit August. sunt & intus hostes Dei quorum pectora obsedit, spiritus Antichristi & tamen gerunt spiritualia & diuina.: 3. Ep. Ioh. 9. 10. The Arrians in the dayes of Constantius and Valence did all the former, in the greater part of the Christian world Hieron. c. Lucif. & sup. Gal. c. 5. Ingenuit totus orbis & se Arianum esse miratus est. I­dem. sup. Psal. 133. Ante annos quindecem aut viginti, &c. Omnes Ecclesias has Haeretici possidebant. Idem. Chron. Anno 364. omnes pene toto orbe Ecclesiae, sub nomine pacis & Regis Arianorum consortio polluebantur. Basil. Epist. 17. Nobis jam dicere licet, quod in hoc tempore non sit, neque Princeps, neque Propheta, ne (que) praeses, ne (que) D oblatio, neque incensum, ne (que) locus in quo coram Domino possit offerri sacrificium, &c. Athanas. l. ad. solitar. vir. agent. Quae nunc Ecclesia libere Christum adorat? nam si alicubi sunt pij, & Christi studiosi (sunt autem plurimi illi itidem, vt magnus ille Propheta Elias absconduntur, & in speluncas & cauernas terrae sese abstrudunt, aut in­solitudine oberrantes, commorantur. [...]. Lir. c. Haer. c. 6. Arianorum venenum non jam portiunculam quan­dam sed pene totum orbem contaminauerat: adeo vt prope cunctis latini nominis Episcopis, partim vi partim fraude deceptis, caligo quaedam mentibus offunderetur..

The same happened in the Church of Rome, especially af­ter the thousand yeere, one man vsurped ouer the Christian world, making himselfe on earth, chiefe and sole commander ouer things diuine and humane Auentin. annal. Bojor lib. 5. pa. 447. Gregorius septimus E qui & Hildebrandus, &c. Primus contra morem majorum, contempta Imperatoris authoritate pontificatum maximum occupauit: [...] sibi [...] esse à Christo, se [...]; vt liberet ligare & soluere posse, &c. Ibid. [...] Imperium [...], quod successores per 450. continenter annos inuito mun­do, inuitis Imperatoribus adeo duxere, vt inferos superos, in seruiturem redegerint, [...]; sub jugum miserint, at (que) cuncta fulmine perterritent: Quo bruta, tellus & vaga [...]: Quo Stix & [...] horrida [...] sedes Ath­lanteusq, [...]; [...].: his power was so exorbitant [Page 56] and boundlesse, that he trode vpon the necke of kings Nancler. Gene­rat. 40. summus pentifex Imperato­ris collū pede [...], &c. Math. Paris. Chron. p. 223. Papa definiuit, vt rex Anglorum Io­hannes, à solio reg­ni deponeretur, & alius, Papa procu­rante succederes qui dignior haberetur. Ad hujus quoque sententiae executionem sctipsit Dominus Papa potentissimo Regi Fran­corum Phillipo, quatenus in remissionem omnium suorum peccatorum hunc laborem assumeret, &c. Papir. Masson. d. Episcop. vibis l. 5. in vit. Bonifacij 8. Sander. d. visib. Monarch. Tam sacerdotalis quam regia potestas communicata B est pastoribus Ecclesia., thro­ning A and dethroning, crowning and decrowning them, as him­selfe listed, his dominion was so absolute and vast, as that no man might reprooue or withstand him [...]. 40. c. 6. Si Papa, &c. Iacob. Graph. Decis. Aur. part. 1. l. 2. Omnia regit disponit & judicat, pro vt sibi placet, &c. Apud. eum est pro ratione voluntas, & quod ei placet legis habeat vigorem. [...]. Ancona. sum. d. Eccles. q. 63. ar. 1. Magis ligat praeceptum Papae quam ligamen legis naturae, &c. Baron. Anno 373. num. 21. vt plane apareat ex arbitrio dependisse Rom. Pontificis fidei decreta sancita, & sancita mutare.. All men were repu­ted heretickes or schismatickes, which would not say and sweare as he commanded Fazel. d. reb. [...]. l. 8. c. 2. Haereseos incusatur & damnatur Fredericus, quod inter alia Romanum pontificem, ipsum ana­thematis vinculo astringere non potuisse dixerit. Abbas. Vsperg. Anno 1012. p. 241.: in Synods and Councels, causes were transacted according to his will Bosius. d. sig. Eccles. l. 5. c. 9. Did. Nugnus. in 3. Thom. Addit. q. 20. ar. 3. Bellarm. d. Concil. l. 2. c. 11. Greg. Val. Tom. 3. d. 1. q. 1. p. 7. pa. 365. [...]. Bannes 22. q. 1. ar. 10. fo. 70.: and remission of sinnes, and right to life eternall, were intailed to his chaire Math. Paris. Chron. pa. 223. Quatenus in remissionem omnium suorum peccato­rum hunc laborem assumeret. Bell. d. Eccles. l. 3. c. 5..

IESVIT. C

This principle is consequent vpon the former: and out of it, sixe things may be clearely prooued. First, that there is alwayes a true Church of Christ in the world: for if there be no meanes for men to know that Scriptures and other substantiall Articles came from Christ and his Apostles, and so consequently from God, but the Tradition of the Church; then there must needs be in all ages a Church, receiuing and deliuering these Traditions: else men in some ages since Christ D should haue beene destitute of the ordinarie meanes of sal­uation, because they had not meanes to know assuredly the substantiall Articles of Christianitie, without assured faith whereof no man is saued.

ANSVVER.

By true Church, we may vnderstand, either an vniuersall maltitude of Beleeuers, totally in respect of all persons, or di­stributiuely, E in regard of them which principally rule and com­mand, free from errour in publicke doctrine: Or else a choise and select number of Beleeuers, liuing either in the common fellowship of the generall visible Church, or vnited in parti­cular Congregations, by themselues, teaching and professing [Page 57] right Faith in all capitall points, and readie to imbrace all di­uine A Truth, when the same is manifested vnto them.

If the name of true Church be taken in the first sense, or for an Hierarchicall Church, wherein the principall commanders teach and maintaine truth intirely and sincerely, then the Pro­position, to wit, There is alwayes a true Church of Christ in the world, is denied; for it is possible, that the greater Prelates, to wit, Popes, Cardinals, mitred Bishops, and Abbots (of which the Hierarchicall Church principally consisteth) shall bee repro­bates Aliaco. l. d. Re­form. Rom. Eccl. tit. d. ref. relig. Ad hunc statum venisse Ec­clesiam vt non sit digna regi nisi à re­probis., blinde guides Occham. Dial. p. 1. l. 2. c. 28. A tem­pore Innocent. ter­tij non fuerunt ali­qui pontifices in sa­crarum literarum peritia excellentes. Alphons. Castro. c. Haeres. l. 1. c. 4. Cum constet plures [...] adeo illitera­tos esse, vt Gram­maticā penitus ig­norent: Printed by Badius. Anno 1533., a generation of vipers, wolues in sheepes cloathing, and such as being armed with the title of the B Church, persecute the true Church Leo. Epist. 81. Ecclesiae nomine armamini & contra Ecclesiā dimicatis. Cyprianus. d. simpli­cit. Praelat. Diabo­lus excogitauit no­uam fraudem, vt sub ipso nominis Christiani titulo fallat incautos.. And that this is possible, it appeareth: First, by the example of the arch-rulers of the Iewish Church, which in some ages, corrupted true Religion, and persecuted the seruants of God, 2. Chron. 36. 14. More­ouer all the chiefe of the Priests, and the people, transgressed very much, after all the abominations of the heathen, and polluted the house of the Lord, &c. v. 16. They mocked the messengers of God, and do­spised his word, and misused his Prophets, &c. Reade 2. Kings. 16. 11, 16. Ierem. 2.8. Esay. 56.10. Malach. 2.8. Ierem. 20.1. & 23.1. 2. Machab. 4.10. Ezek. 34.4. Mark. 6.35. Math. 3.7. C Matth. 23. 13. Luk. 12. 1. Matth. 16. 12. Iohn. 10. 8. Ezek. 22. 26.

Secondly, the same apeareth to be true, both by the exam­ple of the greater Prelates of the Asian Churches, which cor­rupted true Doctrine and worship, and prouoked the Almightie so much, that he remooued their Candlesticke out of his place: and also by the example of the West Church it selfe, wherein Popes and greater Prelates, haue been illiterate, Monsters, Di­uels incarnate, Apostataes, men defiled with all wickednesse, and abominable sinnes (as Papists themselues report Genebrard. Chron. l. 4. anno 991. p. 553. per annos ferè 150. Pontifices circiter 50, &c. à vir­tute majorum prorsus defecerunt, [...] Iob. Sarisbur. Policrat. l. 6. c. 24. Rom. Ec­clesia quae mater [...] Ecclesiarum est, se non tam matrem [...] quam nouercam: sedent in ea Scribae & Pharisei, &c. [...]. in Benedicto 4. Hac monstra, haec portenta, à quibus ambitione, & largitione sanctis­sima Petri sedes occupata est. Concil. Const. sess. 11. ar. 5. Foex vitiorum, [...] incarnarus. Fascic. Temp. anno 1424. Iam con, cum sci, de conscientia abrasis, solum entia sponsam Christi gubernare videmus: personas vide­licet, conscientia scientiaque carentes, & velut entia insensibilia. [...]. d. Casal. cited by Onus Eccles. c. 43. n. 9. Carnalis jam Ecclesia dicitur noua Babilon & meretrix magna, quia in ea, vtpote in pluribus & potioribus membris, ordo virtutum per deordinationem vitiorum [...] est confusus, nec non sui sponsi Iesu amor tur­piter adulteratus & eius cultus nequiter neglectus, modica quidem grana tritici, sunt in immenso palearum cumulo, quoniam instorum Spiritus hoc tempore à malis [...] vsque adeò, vt prae multitudine peruer­sorum E justus cogarur seruire Babiloni in plerisque [...] actibus, Ecclesia [...] quasi ancilla facta est, [...] quondam silij Israel propter peccata multorum, capiti in Babilone seruire compulsi sunt. [...]. d. planct. Eccles. lib. 2. ar. 5. Nunc autem ex quo in Ecclesijs sicut in Romano Imperio creuit [...]: perijt lex de Sacerdotibus & visio de Propheta: & ad literam hodie in Ecclesia deficit Spiritus Prophe­tiae: &c adimpletur quod scribitur, 3. Reg. 22. Egrediar & cro spiritus mendea in [...] omnium Prophe­carum..) And con­cerning D [Page 58] Doctrine, it is euident, by comparing their decrees A with the Scriptures, and the ancient Fathers and Councels, that they are in many things departed from the truth. And Occham Occham. dial. part. 1. [...]. c. 26. [...]. Disp. cum [...]. Si coire ne­queant partes erro­ris cum virtute, multo minus con­uenerint veritas & vicium. Origen. in Math. [...]. Haec alterutrum se sequuntur & non seperantur ab in vicem, sermo mundus in anima, & vita irreprehensibilis. saith: Omnis congregatio quae potest errare contra bonos mores, potest errare contra fidem: quia mali mores excacant intellectum: Because euill manners blinde the iudgement, therefore euery assembly which may erre notoriously in manners, may erre against the Faith.

But if, by true Church, we vnderstand a number of Belee­uers, B smaller or greater, teaching and professing right Faith, in all substantiall and capitall points, and willing to imbrace and teach all other diuine veritie, when the same is made knowne vnto them: then it is granted, that there is a true Church of Christ alwayes in the world. And this kind of Beleeuers, doe either teach and professe their Faith and Religion in congrega­tions apart, or in the externall fellowship and common societie of corrupt Beleeuers: as appeareth by the example of the Iewes, in the dayes of their wicked Kings and Priests: and in C the time of the Pharisees. The open and publicke ministerie of Priests was corrupt in those dayes, yet God had a remnant of people, and small Church, in the middest of this blindnesse, Esay 1.9.

In the other part of this Section, the Iesuite produceth an Argument to prooue, That there is alwayes a true Church of Christ in the world. The summe of his Argument is:

ANSVVER.

It is lost labour to spend time in proouing against vs, that E there is alwayes in the world a true Church [...]. d. Ec­cles. l. 3. c. 13. Notan­dum est multos ex nostris, tempus terrere dum probant absolutè Ecclesiam non posse deficere, nam Caluinus & caeteri Haeretici id concedunt. Gerbard. loc. com. [...]. 5. d. Eccles. num. 107. Ecclesiam perpetuo durasse & perpetuo duraturum esse extra controuersiam ponimus.: for wee haue [Page 59] euer acknowledged this. The thing that we denie, is, that al­though A there bee alwaies in the world a Church, the [...] members whereof are free from damnable and [...] errour; yet there is not alwaies a true Church in the world whose commanding Prelates are free from all error, or [...] part of it from malicious error.

Secondly, It is granted that Christ doth not according to his antecedent will, leaue the world destitute of the meanes of Saluation, Math. 23.37. 1. Timoth. 2.4. 2. Pet. 3.9. But notwith­standing this will of Christ [...]. Orth. fid. lib. 2. ca. 29. &c. Manich. Aquinas p. 1. q. 19. ar. 6. Bonauent. 1. q. 47. art. Vnic. Scot. 1. d. 46. q. Vnic. Occham Ri­chardus. Greg. [...]. Durand. Gabrul. [...], [...]. d. Auxil. dips. 34. [...]. in 1. p. [...]. q. 19 [...]. 56. num. 17.18., many people may be actually destitute of the meanes of Saluation, by the negligence of B Preachers Gre. li. 5. Epist. 59. Anglorum gentem, Deo annuente velle fieri Christianam, sed Sacerdotes qui in vicino sunt, pa­storalem ergà [...] sollicitudinem non habete., and through their owne negligence or malice, contemning or repelling the said meanes, when they are offe­red vnto them, Acts 13.46.

Thirdly, A corrupt visible Church may truely deliuer some parts of sacred Truth, and among other verities, it may deliuer the Apostles Tradition touching the Canon of the Scripture, C and also the rule of Faith contained in the Apostles Creed. This appeareth by the Churches of the Nestorians at this day, and also of old by the Iewish Church, which at such times as it was Idolatrous and vnsound, preserued the Canon of the Scriptures of the Old Testament, and by transcribing and rea­ding, deliuered the whole Text thereof truely, Rom. 3.2. and Acts 15.21.

Fourthly, If we should grant (which is false, as appeareth by the Greeke Church) that there was in some ages past, no other Church but the Roman, and the adheres thereof, and af­firme D withall that the chiefe Prelats thereof, and their faction, maintained sundrie erronious and superstitious doctrines; yet because all Doctors and people (liuing within the externall communion of that Church) were not equally poysoned and surprised with error Occham. Dial. p. 1. li. 5. c. 28. Quod si consilium in Haeresin labererur, [...] Catholici, qui occultè vel publicè [...] expediret, auderent fidem defendere orthodoxam. Ille autèm qui reprobatis filijs earnalibus Abrahae potest de lapidibus suscitare fi­lios Abrahae spirituales, potensest & omnibus in generade [...] conuenientibus in [...] lapsis, imò [...] mundi, & potentibus secularibus [...] damnatis, de lapidibus, id est, [...] rudibus & abiectis panperibus & despectis Catholicis, Dei filios suscitare. Frans. Picus. Mirand. Theorem. 23. Hoc autèm verbo pernitiosè vsi in [...] sumus, ob id quod [...] quempiam errare Deus (occulto suo [...]) E [...] id [...], adest [...] voluntatis viris diui­na protectio, quae noxium peccati virus [...] à conscientia, immunes & illaesas sanctorum virorum animas cu­stodit & seruat. Multi enim erroribus & de mille annis & de iteratione Baptismi maculati, beatitudine tamen do­nati sunt, & ab Ecclefia celebrati [...], Papias Episoopus, [...] Pictauiensis, Irinaeus Lugdunensis; & alij., but many among them firmely belee­uing [Page 60] all fundamentall [...], were [...] by adeu out and [...] A [...] in some other points. It followeth not that the world should be destitutes of all meanes of saluation: for these founder members, lining in the visible Roman Church, might deliuer the maine and capitall Articles of Christiani­tie, and their ignorance and error in other matters, was in those daies pardonable, because they offended in simplicitie, and were [...] unawares.

IESVIT. B

Secondly, this Church must be alwaies visible and conspicious, for the Traditions of the Church must euer bee famous, glorious, and notoriously knowne in the world, that a Christian may say with S. Augustine, I beleeue no­thing but the consent of Nations and Countries, and most celebrious fame. Now if the Church were hidden in se­cret, invisible in any age, then her Traditions could not bee Doctrines, euer illustriously known, but rather obscure, hid­den, C Apochriphall, Ergo the Church the mistris pillar and foundation of Truth must bee alwaies visible and conspi­cuous, which if need bee, may be further prooued most euidently.

ANSVVER.

The Church according to the Popish Tenet, is said to be Vi­sible, because it alwaies hath such an outward forme and ap­pearance in the eyes of the world, as that people are able by D sence or common reason to know the same materially, and to distinguish it from other societies of infidels and Hereticks Anton. Perez. Pentateuch. fid. pa. 1. du. 1. c. 2. Si igitùr nequè ad sensum Ecclesia potest latere, consequens est, vt in omnium occulos incurrat, Et proinde quod veritas illius, non solum percipiatur mente sed etiam sensu..

And by the Church in this question, they vnderstand, a com­panie of beleeuers, professing Christian Faith without error, submitting themselues to the Bishop of Rome, as to their vni­uersall Visible head Azer. Moral. [...]. part. 2. li. 5. c. [...]. Ecclesia dicitur visibilis, quia in v­nius, & ciusdem fidei professione consistit, sub vno capite visibili, videlicet, summo Christi Vicario Rom. pontifice, &c.. And they affirme concerning the said Church, that it may at all times be sensibly knowne and discer­ned E Stapl. Rel. c. 1. q. 3. ar. 1. pa. 33. Aspectabilis & sensibus [...]. Brellar. d. Eccles. li. 3. ca. 15. Greg. Val. [...]. 3. pa. 88. Ecclesiam omni tempore visibilem, id est, cognitu [...]. Jb. pa. 185. Euidentèr potest [...] seculo conspici & [...] & quasi digito demonstrari., and that the place of aboad, and the principall members [Page 61] thereof are openly knowne, and the externall actions of the A same, to wit, Preaching, Praying, administration of [...] may bee alwaies heard and seene, and that the same is perpetually sensible and [...], like vnto earthly kingdomes and common weales [...].

Some few of them acknowledge, that it is possible for the same, for some short season, to loose part of the externall am­plitude and glorie, and to be ouershadowed with clouds and B stormes of Heresies, Scismes, and Persecutions [...]. [...]. [...]. 3. pa. 187. [...]. Re­lect. p. 30.: but yet they all [...] that euen in those tempestuous seasons, it is con­spicuous to the world, in regard of the principall members [...] & turgidis granis est perpetuò [...] & [...]., and that the common and ordinarie condition of the true Church is to be amply, famously, and in a glorious manner visible [...]. [...]. pa. 111. [...]. [...] [...]. fid. vol. 1. dub. 1. c. 1. [...] illustrior..

But our Tenet is, First, That the true Church abideth often­times C in persecution, either of [...] and externall enemies, or of domesticall foes [...] Ecclesiae [...] fuit &c. Altera per­secutio fraudulen­ta &c. [...] super­est per [...] D ventura, qua [...] est perniciosius quoniàm & [...] & fraudulenta erit. Bernard Serm. d. [...]. S. Pauli. Videbatur [...] cessasse [...], &c. sed [...] quod [...] est, ipsi. [...], qui ab [...] Christiani [...]. Amici [...] Deus & proximi [...] te [...], &c. Jd. in Psal. Qui hab­serm. 6. & sup. Cantic. serm. 33.. And in time of persecution, by ei­ther of [...] enemies, it may be reputed a false Church, or im­pious Sect by the multitude [...]. in [...] c. 16. [...] Christiani genus [...] nouae & [...]. [...]. [...]. annal. li. 15., and consequently be vnknown to, the wicked world, vnder the Notion of holy and true: and in such persecutions the loue of many may waxe cold, Math. 24.12. and iniquitie and infidelitie so abound, Luc. 17.26. & cap. 18.8. that the number of right beleeuers shall be few, and the same may bee compelled to exercise their religion in [...] [...]. in Luc. li. 10. c. 21. [...]. [...] & Lacus, & Carceres & [...], in illis [...]. Symbol. ar. 2. pa. 378. [...] Cryptis, &c. [...] 18. c. 7. numb. 64. Cultus diuinus & iuge sacrificium, [...] temporis, cessent in [...] & patentibus [...] non [...] in abditis & [...]..

Secondly, We deny that a naturall man is able infallibly to iudge and discerne by sence and common reason, or human prudence only, which is the true Church of Christ [...] sup. 3. c. [...]., where­unto E euery one that wil be saued must vnite and ioine himselfe, 1. Cor. 2.11.14.

Now the reasons for which we reiect or limit the Popish Doctrine, concerning the Churches visibilitie, are these.

[Page 62] [...] A [...] [...] [...], [...]. 1.8.1. Thess. [...]. [...]. Lib. 3. [...] princi­palitatem, necesse est [...] om­nem Ecclesiā, hoe est cos qui sunt vn­di (que) fideles, in qua semper ab eis qui [...] ab [...] est [...]. and not what the same must be perpetually. Some teach what the same is by outward calling, and consequently what in right, by precept and dutie, it ought to be. Some Matth. 5. 18. [...]. Lirin. c. [...]. c. Sedula & canta apud se dogmatum custos, &c. Texts of holy Scripture de­scribe the inward and spirituall beautie of the sounder part of the Church, by Allegories and similitudes, taken from externall and worldly pompe and glorie: Psalm. 45. 9. Esay 35.2. & Esay [...] Some places shew what [...] ought to performe, when the publike and common Mi­nisterie B of the Church is incorrupt, and ordinarie Pastors in Doctrine and Discipline proceed according to the Ordinance of Christ. [...] Lastly, some of the Fathers liuing in Ages wherein the outward face of the Church was externally glorious, & not foreseeing what was imminent and future, might probably sup­pose, that the same should alwayes retaine the like beautie. And yet S. Augustine, who because of the Donatists, speaketh most largely in this kind, August. c. Crescon. lib. 2. c. 36. &c. Petil. lib. a. c. 104. & contra Faust. lib. 13. c 13. & [...] vnit. [...]. cap. 25. vseth words of limitation and ex­ception, and affirmeth, that the splendor of the Church in time of Persecution may be eclipsed, and the glorie thereof ouer­shadowed. C [...]

Secondly, The Arguments against the glorious and perpetu­all Visibilitie of the true Church (according to our aduersaries D Tenet) are weightie. First, The best and worthiest members of the said Church may be persecuted, disgraced, and condem­ned as Heretikes, and impious persons: as appeareth by the ex­ample of [...] Athanasius, Hilarius, Ambrosius, &c. And this may be done by great multitudes, and by learned persons, and by such as are potent in worldly and Ecclesiasticall power: and in such times the true Church, vnder the notion of a true Church, cannot be generally and gloriously visible. Secondly, The prime Rulers and Commanders in the visible Church doe at some times by Ambition, and other enormious Vices, become E enemies vnto Truth, [...]. [...]. d. Planct. Eccles. lib. 1. ar. 5. Principes Ecclesiae sunt exercitus daemonum, cum deberent esse [...]. Lira, [...]. 16. Multi principes & [...], & alij [...] a side, &c. [...]. as our aduersaries themselues acknow­ledge, [Page 63] concerning all other Bishops, but onely the Roman and A his adheres; and that the Roman Popes and Prelates haue de­parted from right Faith, and exceeded others in monstrous ambition, and wickednesse, is reported by many amongst them­selues. Now when these Master-builders fall, innumerable multitudes of inferiour ranke, for hope, fauour, feare, and other humane and carnall respects, concurre with them; Occham, Dial. p. 1. Lib. 7. cap. 48. Fabulas & errores Papae Haeretici, multitudo praeci­pue magistrorum ambitiosorum, & [...] sequi­tur. and then the number of Infidels, which remaine without the Church, being added to the Church malignant; the totall summe of both amounteth to a great number, and in comparison of them, right beleeuers may be few, Onus Ecclesiae, c. 43. §. 1. Nunc in Ecclesia copio­sior (proh dolor) est numerus [...] quam bonorū, & praeualet impius aduersus bonum. Aluar. Petag. d. Planct. Eccles. li. 2. art. 5. Mistica Sy­on Ecclesia cali­gine peccati & er­toris & ignorantiae [...], quae tantis muneribus in Ec­clesia primitiua, [...] suo sponso ditabatur, &c. Ad terram de coelo proiectam conspicimus quia quasi inhabitata & deserta est: Et fi qui supersunt cultores, quasi Arabes & Saraceni sunt. and their reputation in the world so B meane, as that they shall not be generally knowne the true Church. And if they be not knowne, and esteemed a true Church by the greatest part of the world, then they are not famously visible at all times, as our aduersarie maintaines. Thirdly, The Scriptures foretell a comming and reigne of An­tichrist, a large Apostasie and reuolt from the right Faith, a ra­ritie of true beleeuers, and decay of Charitie, a flying of the true Church into the Wildernesse, and grieuous persecutions of Gods Elect, before the finall consummation of the World. 2. Thess. 2.3. &c. 1. Tim. 4.1. 2. Tim. 3.1. &c. Luc. 18.8. Matth. C 24. 12, 24. Reuel. 12.6. Aluar. Pelag. d. [...]. Eccles. Lib. 2. art. 5. Nunc autem ex quo in Ecclesia sicut in Rom, Imperio creuit auaritia, perijt Lex de Sacerdotibus, & visie de Prophetis, & ad terram defecit hodie in Ecclesia spiritus Prophetiae, & [...] quod scribitur. 3. Reg. 22. Egrediar & [...] spiritus mendax in ore omnium Prophetarum. But such a perpetuall visibilitie of the Church as Romists imagine, is not compatible with the precedent Predictions. But the Iesuit saith,

IESVIT. D

Because the Tradition of the Church must be at all times famous, glorious, and notoriously knowne in the World: therefore the true Church, which is the Teacher, Pillar, and Foundation of Tradition, must be at all times famously visible to the eye of the World.

ANSWER. E

Neither the Antecedent nor Consequent of this Argument are firme. It is not alwayes true, that those things are visible, which make other things famous, glorious, and notoriously knowne; for that which is innisible to the eye of the World, [Page 64] may cause other things to be famous: as wee see in God him­selfe, A in Christ, in the holy Apostles, &c. Also persons liuing in disgrace, and persecution, may by writing from Exile, Prison, or vnknowne Habitations, make Diuine Truth notoriously knowne, to the making of the enemies thereof inexcusable, and the conuersion of others, as appeareth in Athanasius.

Secondly, The Antecedent is false: If the Iesuit, by the word (Must) vnderstand that, which by an immutable proui­dence of the Almightie shall infallibly in all ages be fulfilled; it is not decreed by the Almightie, that the Doctrine and Tra­dition of Diuine Veritie shall in all Ages be generally famous, B and notoriously knowne to the World; the same must alwayes (in matters substantiall and necessarie) be sufficiently knowne to some part of the World.

But many people, for sundrie Ages, haue beene ignorant of Christ Prosp. d. voc. Gent. Lib. 2. cap. 6. Acosta, d. Proc. In­dor. Salur. Li. 1. c. 5. pa. 133. August. d. confens. Euang. li. 1. cap. 31. Per multos annos Ecclesia, quae C futura erat in omnibus gentibus in [...] suis, hoc est in sanctis suis, non [...], &c. Et d. vnit. Eccles. cap. 14. [...]. d. Pontif. Rom. l. 3. ca. 4. Antechristus nondum venit, quia Euangelium nondum suit [...] in [...] mundo., and of the whole Tradition and Doctrine of the A­postles, and a large tract of the World remaineth at this present day in Heathenish and damnable ignorance Concil. Lateran. sub. Leo. 10. Sess. 8. Iacet desolata Afia, iacet Africa, iacet AEgyptus, ac bona Eu­ropae [...] deserta, abiecta fine lege, sine moribus, sine [...] Christianae legis consortio, p. 599. [...], to. 4.; and consequent­ly, to a large part of the World, Tradition is not in a famous and glorious manner notoriously knowne.

IESVIT.

Thirdly, The Church is Apostolicall, and that apparantly descending from the Apostolicall Sea, by succession of Bi­shops, Aug. li. d. vtil. Cred. c. 17. vsque ad confessionem generis humani, euen D to the acknowledgement of humane kind, as S. Augustine speaketh.

ANSWER.

The true visible Church is named Apostolicall, not because of locall and personall succession of Bishops (onely or princi­pally) but because it retaineth the Faith and Doctrine of the holy Apostles, Eph. 2. 20. Ambros. Hugo Lira, in Comment. sup. Fundamentum Apostol. 1. c. sup. Doctrinam. Reuel. 21.14. Albert. Com. Apocal. cap. 21. Fundamenta, &c. [...] sunt super quo­rum fidem, & doctrinam [...] Ecclesia fundata est. Tertullian. d. Pra­script. cap. 32. affirmeth Ad [...] [...] prouocabunur ab alijs [...] quae licet nullum ex Apostolis aut Apostolicis, Authorem suum proserant, vt [...], quae denique quo­tidie instituuntur tamen in cadem side conspirantes, non minus Apostolicae [...] pro [...] Doctrinae., That Churches which are able to produce E [Page 65] none of the Apostles, or other Apostolicall men for their first planters, A are notwithstanding Apostolicall, for consent of Faith, and consan­guinitie of Doctrine. And many learned Papists, antient and moderne, say Cordub. Arma. fid. q. 1. prop. 2. Di­citur Apostolica, quia fundata est in doctrina Aposto­sorum, quo ad fidem legem & Sacramenta, neque aliam contrariam doctrinam habet, Eph. 2. 20. Occham. Dial. pa. 1. li. 5. c. 24. [...]. to. 1. serm, in Concil. Generali. p. 369. [...]. summa. d. Ecclesia l. 1. c. 18. [...]. mo­ral. Institut. p. 2. l. 5. c. 21. The Church is called Apostolicall, because it is grounded vpon the Doctrine of the Apostles, in respect of Faith, Lawes, and Sacraments.

But personall or locall succession onely, and in it selfe, ma­keth B not the Church Apostolicall, because hirelings and wolues may lineally succeed lawfull and orthodoxe Pastours, Act. 20.29, 30. Euen as sicknesse succeedeth health, and darkenesse light, and a tempest faire weather, as Gregorie Nazianzen affirmeth. Orat. d. laud. Athanasij Nazian. Orat. 21. [...]. pa. 377..

That which is common and separable, cannot of it selfe de­monstrate the true Church. And the notes of the Church C must be proper and inseparable, agreeing to all times, to euery true Church (as Bellarmine Bel. d. Eccles. l. 4. c. 2. Notae debent esse propriae non communes. 2. no­tiores ca re cujus sunt notae. 3. inse­parabiles à vera Ecclesia. affirmeth.) Also, the same must be so conspicuous, as that they cannot easily bee pretended by Aduersaries Stapl. Rel. c. 1. q. 4. ar. 5. p. 114. No­tae debent esse ita perspicuae vt nec ab Aduersarijs fa­cile D praetexi queant, nec vllo modo dubiae, aut controuersae sunt. [...] confess. c. 20. Notae quibus omnis de Ec­clesia penes quos ea sit dubitatio tolli possit, ita Ecclesiae propriae vt eas sibi nequaquam vsurpare possint [...]., or be at all controuerted or doubtfull. But per­sonall succession may bee found in a false Church, as appeareth by the Iewish Church, in the time of the Pharisees, and by the Churches of the East in the dayes of the Arrians: and our Aduersaries affirme the Greeke Church to be vnsound, not­withstanding it is apparently descended from the Apostles Niceph. Chron. l. 8. c. 6. Stapl. princip. Doctr. l. 13. c. 16. Graecae Ecclesiae ab ipsis Apostolorum fundamentis perso­nalem successionem demonstrare possunt. Anton. Perez. vol. 1. Du. 24. c. 14. p. 70. Baron. An. 44. nu. 12. ex ep. Agapeti. Horant. loc. l. 6. c. 7. Turrian. Resp. ad Sadael p. 124., by a lineall succession of Bishops.

Cardinall Bellarmine Bellarm. d. Ec­cles. lib. 4. c. 6. Ar­gumentum à suc­cessione legitima adfertur à nobis precipue ad pro­bandam non esse Ecclesiam, vbi non est haec successio, quod quidem euidens est: ex quo tamen non colligitur necessariò ibi esse Ecclesiam vbi est successio. perceiuing the weight of the former Argument, departeth from the common opinion of other Pa­pists, saying: That although personall succession alone, or by it selfe, is not a proper note of a true Church, yet the ab­sence thereof, prooueth a nullitie of the Church in them which E want it.

[Page 66] But if this be so, then personall and locall succession must A bee expuged out of the Calendar of Churches notes: for all proper notes argue and demonstrate their subiect, both [...] and negatiuely: also, they demonstrate the same of themselues, without the assistance of other things. If there­fore externall succession prooueth not a true Church, except right Faith bee concurring; and if (as Bellarmine teacheth) it rather serueth to prooue there is not the true Church where it wanteth, than to argue a true Church where it is: then the same is not proper and conuertible, and consequently it is no essentiall marke, because to bee proper and conuertible, B are of the being of notes, according to the Cardinals Supra. Bellarm. Stapl. [...] lit. a. owne description.

It is likewise remarkeable, that the ancient Fathers Iren. l. 4. c. 43. lis qui in Ecclesijs sunt Presbyteris [...], qui successione ha­bent [...] Apostolis quicunque cum E­piscopatus succes­sione charisma ve­ritatis certum se­cundum placitum patris acceperunt. Id. cap. 44. Ad hae­rere his qui & Apo­stolorum Doctrinā custodiunt, & cum Praesbyterij ordine sermonem sanum & conuersationem sine offensa praestant. Tertul. c. Haeres. c. 32. Ipsa doctrina eorum cum Apostolica comparata ex diuersitate & [...], neque Apostolici alicuius Authoris effe, ne (que) Apostoli. doe not onely or principally vnderstand personall succession, when they mention succession in their writings: because they argue affir­matiuely from succession, and not negatiuely onely. Therefore Romists in this disputation, shall doe well to begin with the questions which concerne Doctrine, and prooue that they haue succession of Doctrine, in all those Articles wherein they op­pose C other Churches, before they mention locall and perso­nall succession: but the manner of these men is to obserue a contrarie proceeding, and from the latter to conclude the for­mer, Baron. Anno 31. [...]. 52. (Ait) magnam esse successionis vim cum ex cujusuis hominis qui compos sit rationis sententia certum exploratumque habeatur illic esse legitimum [...], ipsum inquam Catholicam Ecclesiam apud quam [...] exordio est legitimè conseruata. Hosius confess. c. 28. Didicimus jam ibi esse Aposto­licā Ecclesiā vbi est Doctrina Apostolorū, porro Doctrina Apostolorū ibi est, vbi est legitima Episcoporú successio, D &c. Idem. c. Brent. l. 2. p. 76. Ibi est Ecclesia vbi est legitima Sacerdotum & Episcoporum successio & ab hac suc­cessione semper veritas est petita. [...] Defens. Cath. p. 991. which is against good reason, and against the Custome and manner of the ancient Fathers Aug. d. vnit. Eccles. c. 16. Sed vtrùm ipsi Ecclesiā teneant, non nisi diuinarum Canonicis libris ostendant, quia nec nos proptereà dicimus nobis credere oportere, quòd in Ecclesia Christi sumus quiaipsam quam tenemus commendauit Mileuitanus optatus, vel Mediolanensis Ambrosius, vel alij inumerabiles nostrae communionis Episcopi, aut quià nostrorum Collegarum Cóncilijs ipsa predicata est..

IESVIT.

For how can the Tradition of Christian doctrine be emi­nently and notoriously Apostolicall, if the Church deliuering E the same, hath not a manifest and conspicuous pedigree or deriuation from the Apostles, which is a conuincing argu­ment vsed by Saint Augustine; how can we thinke that we [Page 67] [...] receiued manifestly Christ, if wee [...] not also [...] A manifestly his Church? It is a Principle of Phylosophie, Propter quod vnumquodque tale & illud magis. But the name of Christ his glory, his vertue and miracles, are to the world famously knowne from age to age, by rea­son of the Church, and her preaching, that in her first Pa­stours saw them with their eyes. Ergo, This Church must needes be more famous, more illustrious, as able to giue fame vnto the being, and Doctrine, and actions of B Christ.

ANSVVER.

I haue shewed in the former Section, that the visible Church is principally called Apostolicall, because it imbraceth the do­ctrine of the holy Apostles. And euerie Church is Aposto­licall, so farre foorth onely, as it consenteth with the Apostles in Doctrine, Sacraments, Inuocation, and in that which is sub­stantiall in Ecclesiasticall policie. And in a precedent Section C I haue declared, That the visible Church may at some times bee more or lesse Apostolicall, holy, &c. But it is not at any time simply or principally Apostolicall, because it hath exter­nall personall succession. Occham, a famous Schooleman, and some others with him affirme, That a true and Apostolicall Church may consist of a few lay people, Occham. Dial. p. 1. l. 4. c. 9. & l. 5. c. 3. &c. 8. &c. 23. and if all the Prelates and Clerkes throughout the world should become hereticall, God may raise vp Pa­stours, either extraordinarily, Ibid. c. 28. Ille qui reprobatis filijs carnalibus Abrahae D potest de lapidibus suscitare Filios Abrahae spirituales, potens est & omnibus ad generale Conciliū conuenientibus in [...] lapsis, imo omnibus Clericis mundi falsitate Haeretica [...], de [...] id est Laicis rudibus & abjectis pauperibus, & despectis Catholicis Dei filios suscitare. [...] enim in [...] ( [...] & religiosis ac magistratibus repudiatis) fidem primitus fundauit Catholicam, ita & omnibus [...] & potentibus datis in re­probum sensum, potest dare pauperes simplices illiteratos & rusticos, in [...] Ecclesiae Orthodoxae. or else hereticall Bishops [...] Pastours, the Church may be reformed by them.

First, if the same were wholly granted, nothing could bee concluded against the Church of England from it, because the Bishops and Pastours of this Church, are able to exhibite a Pedigree or deriuation, both of their Ministerie and Doctrine E from the Apostles.

1. Of Ministerie, in that they haue for substance, the same descent of externall Ordination which the Romane Church hath.

[Page 68] 2. Of Doctrine, because they maintaine the Primitiue Faith, A and accord in the same with the soundest part of the Catho­licke Church in all ages. And where we may seeme to discent from the Antient, the same is either in things humane and adia­phorous [...] Dial. p. 1. li. 2. ca. 4. Sancti aliqua tanquā Ca­tholica quaedā tan­quam ad fidem ne­cessariò spectantia, nonnulla verò tan­quam probata tra­diderunt., or in matters which were not fully discussed, or in points which were not deliuered by an vnanimous consent, or in things which are reprooued by plaine demonstration of ho­ly Scripture [...]. Carmeld. [...]. ca. 7. Quamuis sanctorum Doctorum scripta, extrà Canonem Biblie sunt legenda, &c. Cum debita [...]; non tamen sunt [...] firmae authoritatis & immobilitatis, quin liceat B [...] contradicere, & circà ea dubitare vbi per Scripturam sanctam euidentèr & expressè non probatur, &c., and wherein the Fathers permit libertie of dis­senting, and the Papists themselues take the like libertie Aug. d. pers. Sanctorum ca. 21. Neminem velim sic amplecti mea omnia, vt me sequatur, nisi in eis qui­bus me non errare perspexerit, epist. 48. Hoc genus literarum ab authoritate Canonis distinguen dum est, & epist. 111. & epist. 112. Nolo authoritatem [...] sequaris, &c. & proem. li. 3. d. Trinit. Iob. Driedo. d. Dogm. Eccles. lib. 4. part. 5. c. 6. Nequè ipsi omnes suas sententias suis libris dictas tradiderunt nobis, tanquā fidei sententias dicentes quidem vel per [...], vel per opinionem, vel per rationem, solum ipsis probabilem, ac verisimilem super rebus gestis innixi interdùm solis hominum quorundam testimonijs quos crediderunt veraces, & tamèn potuisse falli & fallere..

Secondly, the Iesuits Interrogation (How can the Tradition of Christian Doctrine be eminently and notoriously Apostolicall, if the Church deliuering the same hath not a manifest and perspicuous pedi­gree or deriuation from the Apostles?) is answered: this may be C performed two waies. 1. By the historie and monuments of the Primatiue Church, whose descent and pedigree from the Apostles was perspicuous. 2. The same may be made mani­fest by the Scriptures of the Apostles, which are diuine and authenticall Records of all Apostolicall Doctrine, and contain in themselues many liuely and effectuall Arguments, proouing to such as read and examine them with diligence and vnder­standing, that they are the Doctrine of the holy Ghost, and consequently the worke of the Apostles. And the maiestie and lustre of heauenly Doctrine is such, that if it be propounded D by meane and obscure persons, it will appeare illustrious, euen as a rich Iewell, if the same be deliuered by a poore Artificer, doth manifest his owne worth: and therefore the sequell of the Iesuits Argument is denied; for it followeth not because the Doctrine of Christ must be illustrious, that the Church which deliuereth the same, must be alwaies so.

Thirdly, S. Augustine in the place obiected, Epist. 48. confu­teth the Donatists, which confined the Church vniuersall to one countrie only, excluding the rest of the world from the communion thereof: against this error he saith, How can wee E thinke that we haue receiued Christ made manifest, if we haue not also receiued his Church made manifest? From hence nothing can be inferred, but that we receiue the true Church, not only at one time, or in one place, but at all times, and in all places where it [Page 69] is manifest, and that Christ is reuealed and made manifest by A the Doctrine of the Apostles, and that this Doctrine must be preached (although not at one time, yet successiuely) through­out the whole world. But all this which S. Augustine spea­keth being granted, prooueth not that the true Church shall be notoriously eminent and visible at all times: neither doth this Father say, that Christ cannot bee manifest but by such a Church only, as can lineally deriue her pedigree by Records and Tables from the Apostles. And howsoeuer Papists boast of their owne pedigree, yet when their Catalogue of descent is duely examined, all the passages are not so currant in it as B they pretend.

Fourthly, the principle of Aristotle Aristot. Anal. Poster. li. 1. ca. [...] [...]. vpon which the last Argument is grounded, admitteth many exceptions, Zabarel. com. ib. Text. 15. & 16. Multas videtur pa­ti difficultates, &c. Aquin. [...] Quest. 87. ar. 2. ad. 3. [...] habet si intel­ligatur in his quae sunt vnius ordinis, &c. Idem. [...]. Sent. d. 12. ar. 2. ad. 2. Quan­dò [...] est causa alterius essentiali ordine. That, be­cause of which another thing is such, is it selfe much more such, when both things are of the same order, and pertake the same affecti­on, as Christ which sanctifieth is more holy than they which are sanctified. Fire is hotter than water, and other things war­med by it, &c. But it holdeth not in causes equiuocall or par­tiall, or in causes by accident, or of diuers order. The Sunne causeth life in plants, and yet the Sunne is without life. A whet­stone C sharpeneth tooles, and yet is dull it selfe. Euill manners cause good lawes, and yet euill manners are not good. Daniels wisdome is reuealed to Baltasar by the queene, Dan. 5. 10, 11. yet Daniell is not made a [...] man, nor onely knowne to be such, by that report: so likewise the name of Christ, his glo­rie, his vertue, and miracles are famously knowne of belecuers from age to age, by reason of the Church and her preaching, &c. But all this concerning Christ is neither principally nor only made knowne to the world by the present Church, nor by D the Roman Church, more effectually than by other Churches, and the Church is a caufe of one kind and order, and the Scrip­ture of another. The Church is veluti Preco & Nuntius, like a Cryer and Messenger, but the holy Scripture is the Word, Handwriting, [...] tom. 5. Hom. d. sui Expuls. [...] manum eius ipsa, mihi murus inexpugnabilis. and Epistle of Christ, Jdem 2. Thess. Hom. 3. Epistolae quotidiè de Coelis venientes legūtut. Audiui lectas hic regias Epistolas. into whose voice and authoritie all the faithfull resolue their beleese concerning Christ and all his actions: and according to S. Agustine, In sanctis libris manifestatur Dominus, & ibi eius Ecclesia declaratur, Aug. Epift. 50. In the holy bookes of Scripture the Lord is made manifest, and in the same also his Church is declared: and in another E place, Aug. Ep. 166. [...] d. vnit. [...]. c. 3. Sunt certè libri Dominici, quorum authoritati [...] consentimus, [...], vtri­què seruimus, ibi quaeramus Ecclesiam, ibi discutiamus causam nostram. In Scripturis diuinis Christum, in Scripturis didicimus Ec­clesiam, In the Scriptures we haue learned Christ, and in the Scriptures we haue learned the Church. Now if the Scriptures [Page 70] manifest Christ, and demonstrate his Church, they are of grea­ter A authoritie [...]. [...]. Pentateuch. Fid. vol. 3. Dub. 10. c. 14. Comparatione hu­ius (id est) Scrip­turae, testimonium Ecclesiae dici [...] potest testimonium hominum, vtpote quod in rigore sermonis non obtinet proprie­tates & requisita ad rationem verbi Dei, &c. Ca. 15. Illud [...] est verbum Dei (quoad omnia & singu­la) ca. 14. Hoc verò ab extrinseco, &c., and consequently more credible, famous, and illustrious than the Church, according to the Iesuits Theorem out of Aristotle, Propter quod vnum quodquè tale est, & illud magis.

IESVIT. B

Fourthly, the Church is one, that is, all the Pastors and Preachers thereof deliuer, and consequently all her profes­sors and children beleeue, one and the same Faith.

ANSWER.

The visible Church in regard of the sound and liuing part thereof, is one both in Faith and Charitie Aug. c. Petil. Don. li. 2. c. 77. Te­nemus charitatem si amplectimur vni­tatem amplectimur autèm vnitatē, si ea non per verba nostra non in parte confingim', sed per verba Christi in vnitate cognoscimus. Id. Membra Christi per vnitatis charitatem sibi copulantur, & per eandem capiti suo cohaerent quod est Christus Iesus, &c. Theoder. Expos. Psal. 47. Communitèr omnes in vnam domum rediguntur ob consonantium veterum Dogmatum., Ephes. 4.3.4. &c. But this vnitie is more or lesse perfect Anton. Perez. Pentateuch. Fid. Vol. 1. Dub. 19. c. 3. Vnitas formalis & substantialis & vnitas perfectiua. at some times, and in C some persons than in other.

Vnitie in all Veritie, and in all sanctitie of Vertue and Cha­ritie is necessarie to Saluation, in praeparatione animi, in the pur­pose and intention of heart, Rom. 12. 18. and actuall Vnitie in fundamentall points of Faith, and in the maine offices of Cha­ritie D is simply necessarie to Saluation, Heb. 12.14. but perfect cōcord, excluding all discord, is not perpetually found amongst the best members of the visible Church Aug. c. Iul. li. 1. ca. 2. Alia sunt in quibus inter se [...] etiam do­ctissimi atquè opti­mi regulae Catho­licae defensoris, sal­ua fidei compage, non consentiunt & alius alio de vna re melius & verius di­cit. Hoc autèm vn­dè E nunc agimus ad ipsa fidei [...] fundamenta. Idem sup. Psal. 45. Anton. Perez. Pentateuch. Fid. p. 1. dub. 8. ca. 3. Cyprian. tr. d. laps. Inter alia peccata reperta in hominibus ad Ecclesiam [...] recenset animo­rum discordias & controuerfias.. There was conten­tion among the Disciples, Luc. 22.24. and the Affrican and Eu­ropean Churches were diuided concerning rebaptising Concil. Carthag. apud Cypt. & Ib. Pamel. Id. ep. 72. & 73. & 74. & 75. Eu­seb. Hist. Eccles. li. 7. c. 2.3, 4., and the Eastrne and Westerne Churches about the day of Easter Idem li. 5. c. 23.. S. Augustine saith, That good men being but proficients, may be at strife Aug. Proficientes autèm nondumquè perfecti, &c. d. [...] Dei, li. 15. ca. 5.. Aquinas affirmeth, That discord is not a sinne vnlesse it ouer­throw Charity, or be corrupted with error concerning matters of Faith which are necessarie to bee knowne to Saluation, or in smaller points [Page 71] with [...] Aquin. 22. q. 37. ar. 1. Cum intentio aliquorum fit ad a­liquod bonū, quod [...] ad honorē [...] accidens contra bonum [...] vel [...].. Also discord may happen in the visible A [...] by the pride, ambition, and faction of the [...] in which case, [...] persons, although they [...] and [...] all lawfull peace and [...], yet through the [...] of those which are enemies to peace [...] Hist. [...] Lib. 6. cap. 4. & [...] Constantini, Lib. 2. cap. 60. & 61. Greg. Nazianz. [...]. 12. [...], &c. Aug. sup. [...]. 45. Nondum [...] B nondum completum est. [...]. sup. Ezech. c. 4. Vereor ne ista [...] in nostra [...], in qua visio pacis cernitur, quam conteret Dominus quando irascitur, & indignos nos [...] &c. deficiente autem pane & [...] Ecclesiae [...] vir contra [...], & [...] discordia est, [...] nobis Christi tunicam, quam nec milites in passione saluatoris nisi sunt, &c., they cannot [...] it. [...]. 120.5, 6, 7.

IESVIT.

For if the Preachers and Pastors of the Church dis­agree about matters which they preach, as necessarie points of Faith, how can their Tradition and Testimonie be of Credit therein, or haue any Authoritie to persuade? who C will or canfirmely [...] disagreeing witnesses vpon their words?

ANSWER.

First, They which disagree in part, and accord in the maine, may haue substantiall [...], although they want the prefection of vnitie, and these are of credit, and may persuade in those things wherein they consent: as appeareth by S. Cyprian and his. Colleagues, disagreeing with the Romans touching Ap­peales D and [...], and yet conuerting many people to godlinesse.

Secondly, When there is discord betweene [...] in [...] matters, the Orthodox partie, [...] many ( [...] all those whose hearts the Lord [...] and mooueth Aug. d. Doctr. Christ. Lib. 4. c. 16. Ipsis quoque mini­stris sanctis homi­nibus vel etiam sanctis Angelis o­perantibus, nemo E recte discit quae pertinent ad [...] Deo nisi fiat a [...] docilis, &c. [...], Doctrinae tum prosunt [...] per [...] cum Dem [...] vt prosint, &c.) to dis­cerne and obey the truth: Otherwise, in the great Dissentions of the antient Church, reported by Eusebius, Lib. 2. cap. 60. & 61. d. vita Constantini [...]. Eo vsque diffudit sese vti non [...] hominum [...] licuisset. Eo [...] [...] Theatris [...] [...]., no people should haue beene conuer­ted to God.

[Page] Thirdly, If [...], take away all possibilitie of persua­ding, A from the Pastors of the Church, then the Romans, which [...] with [...] Ancestors in many points of Doctrine, and haue had so many Schismes (whereof some haue beene most bloudie and pernicious to the Christian World [...] Vno die centum & triginta septem cadauera peremptorum. Othe Frising. Chron. Lib. 6. cap. 22.) must want power to persuade. The efficacie of persuasion dependeth vp­on absolute concord onely, as vpon a greater motiue of credi­bilitie, and not as vpon a proper efficient: and although Prea­chers should be contentious, and factious, yet the Word of Christ truly deliuered by any of them, is in it selfe mightie in operation, and able to persuade August. d. Doctr. Christ. Lib. 4. cap. 27. Boni sideles non quemlibet hominum, sed ipsum Deum obedienter audiunt, &c. and conuert soules: and God B Almightie many times shewes his power in the Ministerie of infirme and imperfect Instruments. Phil. 1. 16, 17.

IESVIT.

And this consent must be conspicuous and euident: For if in outward appearance and shew, Preachers dissent one C from another in maine and materiall Doctrines, their Au­thoritie is crazed, and their Testimonie of no esteeme. Howsoeuer, perchance their Dissentions may by some distin­ctions so be coloured, that one cannot conuince him that would boldly vndertake to defend (as D. Field vnder­takes for Protestants) that their Dissentions are but ver­ball. But what is this to the purpose? Doe the accused Dissentioners allow this Doctors Reconciliation? [...] D they giue ouer Contention hereupon? No: but confesse that such Reconcilers misse of their meaning, and that they dis­agree substantially about the very prime Articles of Faith. How can these men be witnesses of Credit for substantiall Articles, concerning which there is open confessed and pro­fessed Dissention among them.

ANSVVER. E

The consent of Pastors according to one sence, to wit, ex­pounding Must, for [...], Ought (as 1. Tim. 3.2.) is to be con­spicuous and euident, both in Faith and in Charitie: and when this is fulfilled, the testimonie of Pastors is of greater weight [Page 73] and credit among men. But this perfection of Visitie is [...]: A and therefore although the same be [...] in part, the Pastors of the Church are not despoyled of all Authoritie and credit in deliuering Christs Word [...]. Alexandr. Strom. Lib. 7. f. 541. Primum ergo hoc aduersus nos addu­cunt dicentes non oportere credere, [...], &c. Fore [...] in [...] seminentur [...] vt in fi [...] Prophetice a Domino dictumest, & fieti non potest, vt non fiat id quod praedictum est esse futurum, &c. Num quispiam aegrotans, & qui vt curetur o­pus habet, non admittit Medicum propter eas quae sunt in medicina haereses, &c. Neque fi appositus sit fru­ctus, vnus quidem verus & maturus, a­lius vero factus ex cera quam maxime similis, propter simi­litudinem est absti­nendū ab vtroque, &c. Et quemadmo­dum si vna sit via Regia, & multae etiam aliae, ex quibus aliquae ferunt in praecipitium, &c. Cum oleribus. Hortensibus vna [...] nascutitur herbae, &c., if the better part of them obserue Vnitie in the Bond of Peace, in things essentiall, and in the common Rule of Faith. And although the qualitie of Teachers be a motiue of credibilitie, yet the power of per­suasion dependeth properly vpon the Word of Christ; and they which disagree in other matters, and with a common con­sent teach the maine and principall Doctrine of Faith, must therein be credited, because of the prime Author himselfe Bellarm. d. Concil. li. 2. c. 19. Non nititur salus Ecclesiae praecipue humana industria sed [...] Dei cum eius Rex sit Deus, &c.. B If humane frailetie, discord, and error in some things, should totally discredit the Authoritie of Teachers, the World must receiue no Diuine Veritie by the Ministerie of men, because a­mongst men, Non germinat granum Veritatis, sine palea Vanitatis, The good Seed of Veritie, springeth not without some Chaffe of Vanitie Gerson. d. Pace. consid. 3. Dried. d. Eccles. Dog. lib. 4. cap. 2. pa. 224. Ecclesia sub hac peregrinatione constituta, &c. nondum sine paleis & Zizanijs, &c. etiam in membris vi­uis. D. S. Cyprian, S. Augustine, S. Hierome, &c. disagree in some things, and Tertullian and Origen haue many errors, and therein are reprooued by others; and yet the rest of their Do­ctrine (wherein they teach truly) receiueth no preiudice from their contrarie errors. The Iesuits and Dominicans, and other C Scholasticks Cornel. Mus. com. Rom. 6. pag. 279. Vigebat Spinosa & molesta nescio quae Theologia de [...], de Relationibus, de Quidditatibus, &c. Tota pene aetas in hominum decretis quae inter se pugnantia [...], nullo tempore [...], alunt perpetuum per secula litem, conterebatur, &c. Is sublimis Theologus habebatur, qui maiora portenta pro suis Traditiunculis fingere sciat, &c. Hinc Sexcentae Sectae, Thomistae, Scotistae, Occha­mistae, Albertistae, Egidiani, Alexandrei, &c. O scelus, posthabebantur Euangelia, Epistolae, Christiana sapientia delitescebat, a paucissimis tradebatur, sed frigide, non dicam infincere, &c., desire to be esteemed credible Witnesses, and yet there is no small contention betwixt them, concerning sundrie Questions. Although therefore some dissention bee found among Teachers, yet their whole Doctrine is not there­by made incredible, neyther is there perpetually in the true Church a visible and perspicuous concord in all things.

In the words ensuing, the Aduersarie questioneth Doctor Field, because hee affirmeth, That Protestants Dissentions are not reall, but apparent and verball. Against this hee affirmeth, Greg. Naz. Orat. 13. Contentio inter nos fuit, male id quidem non [...] inficiabor (nec [...] Diabolo adi­tum [...] aut ansam nec improbis linguis libertatem dari oportuit) non [...] tanta quanta ijs [...], qui [...] nostras per calumniam insectantur. That so long as Contentioners rest vnsatisfied, and admit no Recon­ciliation, E saying, That Reconcilers haue missed of their meaning; it is vaine by distinctions to colour their Discord, &c.

[Page 74] [...]. First, To [...] Discord by distinctions, is no meanes A of true [...] but by [...] to discouer and manifest, that Contentioners [...] other, and whereas they speake diuersty in [...], yet they maintaine the same Veritie in sub­stance, this may be to good purpose.

Secondly, Although A [...] are many times froward, and will not for the present admit the charitable constructions of moderate persons Greg. Naz. Orat. 14. [...]. Quicunque [...] paci student, mediosque se profitentur, ab [...] male mulctantur, vtpote qui vel contemptui sint, vel etiam bello [...]., [...] to reconcile them, Exod. 2. 14. Act. 7.27. yet at the last, Vnitie may be effected by this meanes, and peaceable and moderate Christians ought in the B meane season to gather the faire Lilly of sauing Veritie, grow­ing amidst the Thornes of humane Infirmitie.

IESVIT.

Fiftly, I inferre, That this Church is vniuersall, spread ouer all Nations, that she may be said to be euery where mo­rally speaking, that the whole knowne World may take no­tice of her, as of a worthie and credible witnesse of Christian C Tradition, howsoeuer her outward glory and splendor, peace and tranquilitie, be sometimes obscured in some places, more or lesse, and not euer in all places at once.

ANSVVER.

The Church is vniuerfall: First, Because of time: for it con­tinueth successiuely in all Ages, Matth. 28.20. Luc. 1.33.

Secondly, In regard of Persons and Places, because no Countrey, Nation, State, Age, or Sex of People, are excluded D from being part of it, Galat. 3.20. Act. 10.34. Apoc. 5.9.

Thirdly, In respect of Faith, because Diuine Veritie, consti­tutiue, and which giueth being to the true Church, continueth throughout all Ages, 1. Pet. 1.25. Reuel. 14.6. and is found in all the parts of the true Church.

But notwithstanding this, the true Church is not perpetually vniuersall, in regard of actuall amplitude, and diffusion of visible Congregations, throughout all Nations, and inhabited. Coun­treyes of the World Card. [...]. Compend. cap. 37. [...] nostra, [...] a sul exordio, fuerit semper Cath & [...], vniuersitate puritatis, sanctitatis, & veritatis, non tamen vniuersitate dilatationis, &c.; for it may in some Ages, in actu exercito, and in regard of actuall residence, remaine onely in a few E Countreyes: and Cardinall Bellarmine Bellarm. d. Eccles. li. 4. c. 7. Quod [...] sola vna Prouincia retineret veram [...] adhuc vere & proprie Ecclesia diceretur Ca­tholica, dummodo clare ostenderetur, [...] esse vnam & candem cum illa quae fuit aliquo tempore vel diuersis, in toto mundo. graunteth, That if one [Page 75] sole Prouince of the World should retaine true Faith, yet the Church A might then be truly and properly called vniuersall, if it could manifestly be shewed that the same were one with that Church which was once vni­uersally spred ouer the world. And although Deiure, by right and according to the diuine Precept, the true Church should at all times remaine and continue in those regions where it was once planted; yet it happeneth by the malice and iniquitie of man, that those places which once were a Sanctuarie of holinesse, are afterwards changed into the habitation of Satan, Dried. d. Eccl. dog. li. 4. p. 2. c. 2. Per Haereticos A­rium, B Nestorium, Eunomium, Mahumetam, major pars veram Ecclesiam de seruit ad dogmata à traditione san­ctorum patrum aliena. and into a cage of vncleane Birds.

The Iesuit perceiuing that it is impossible to defend a perpe­tuall actuall vniuersalitie of the Church, presenteth vnto vs an imaginarie vniuersalitie: his words are, She may be said to be eue­rie where morally speaking, &c.

I answere: Morally speaking, the Church cannot be said to be, where it is altogether vnknowne, and where no meanes are vsed, or actions performed, which are sufficient to make it knowne. A king may morally be said to be in euery part of C his kingdome [...]. Mirand. Apol. q. 1. Rex ex­istens in Palatio, di­citur esse in alio lo­co prouinciae, vbi authoritate pote­statis suae, & impe­rio suo aliquid [...] operatur., because his lawes, ministers, and gouernment are extended throughout all his kingdome, and king Richard the first, when hee was in Syria Roger. Houeden. Annal. pars poster. in Richard. 1., might be said to be morally in England. But the true Church, in many ages, hath no com­merce with Infidels in things spirituall, mediate or immediate: the Faith, Preaching, and authoritie thereof, is altogether vn­knowne to many people, to wit, to the inhabitants of America for 1400. yeeres: to many other nations of Affrica and Eu­rope, for 600. yeeres, &c. And many people, which heare the fame of Christians in generall, as they doe of the Iewes, haue D no meanes to distinguish Orthodoxe Beleeuers from Here­tickes: and they which vnderstand not the Doctrine of the true Church, cannot take notice of her, as of a worthie and credible witnesse of diuine Tradition.

IESVIT.

A truth so cleare, that it may be euidently prooued out of Scripture, that euen in Antichrists dayes the Church E Apoc. 18. v. 8. shall be visibly vniuersall: for shee shall then bee euerie where persecuted; which could not bee, except shee were euerie where visible, and conspicuous euen to the wicked.

ANSVVER. A

Your former Proposition, concerning the perpetuall locall vniuersalitie of the Church, is as cleare, as the Sunne-shine at midnight; and the Arguments whereby you labour to prooue it, are of no force.

First, if it were granted that the true Church, in the raigne of Antichrist, should bee visibly vniuersall; yet it is inconse­quent: Ergo, The true Chnrch is perpetually and in all ages B visibly vniuersall. Separable accidents are sometimes present to the subiect, and sometimes absent: but visible vniuersalitie is a separable accident, as appeareth by the state of the true Church, in the first hundred yeere Card. [...]. Theolog. institut. compend. c. 37. Ecclesia tamen nostra licet à sui exordio semper fuerit Catholica & vniuersalis, vniuersitate puri­tatis, sanctitatis, & veritatis: non tamen [...] dilatationis..

Secondly, the words of Saint Iohn, Apoc. 20. 8. are: And when the thousand yeeres shall be consummate, Satan shall be loosed out C of his prison, and shall goe foorth and seduce the nations which are vp­on the foure corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, and shall gather them into battell, the number of whom is as the sand of the Sea.

In this Prophesie, nothing is deliuered which doth expresly or by consequence argue the visible vniuersalitie of the true Church in all ages. 1. The nations which are vpon the foure corners of the earth seduced by Satan, may be Infidels Riber. in Apoc. c. 20. p. 399. Seducet [...] ex vni­uersis orbis partib' multos, & in ijs Gog & Magog, &c., at least a great part of them, as well as Christians: and although Satan possessed & deceiued them before, yet now when he is loosed, he doth in a new manner, and by a greater efficacie of errour de­ceiue D them Dionis. Carthus. in Apoc. 20. ar. 21.. 2. The true Church may be persecuted vni­uersally by multitudes of enemies dispersed euery where, and yet remaine it selfe, in one or in few places; and it may also be persecuted, when it professeth and exerciseth religion in secret, Apoc. 12.14, 15. 3. Many learned Papists affirme, that in the dayes of Antichrist, true beleeuers shall cease to bee in many places, and the number of orthodoxall people shall be small, and the same shall professe their faith in secret, August. Tri­umph, Aug. [...]. Illo [...], Glossa dicit, par­ticulares Ecclesiae vndique per orbem diffusae subtrahent se ab obedientia Romani Pontificis, ita [...] pauci ei obediant & Papa tunc temporis circa partes Italiae se recludet cum paucis, alijs ab obedientia eius substractis. sum. d. Eccles. pot. q. 21. ar. 4. At that time particular Churches diffused farre and neere ouer the world, shall withdraw them­selwes E from the obedience of the Romane Pope, and few shall obey him, and the Pope himselfe at that time, shall with a few keepe himselfe [Page 77] [...] the [...] of [...], others being [...] from his [...]. A The like is affirmed by Occham Occham. dial. p. 1. l. 5. c. 30., [...] [...]. sum. d. [...]. c. 30., [...] Caiet. Luc. 18. v. 8. [...] [...]. d. Antichristo li. 8. c. 8. 9.12., and Barradias Barrad. Harm. Euang. tb. 3. lib. 4. cap. 12. Hieron. sup.-Soph. c. 2. De Ecclesia videtur prima fronte esse blasphemum, quod ea futura fit inuia, & de­serta B & bestiae habitent in ea, &c. Sed si quis considerauerir [...] Apostolicum in quo dicitur, in nouisimis temporibus instabunt tempora pesima, &c. Necnon quod in Euangelio Scriptum est, quod multiplicata iniqui­tate [...] charitas multorum, in tantum vt illo tempore compleatur verumamen veniens filius homi­nis putas [...] fidem super terram? non mirabitur de extrema Ecclesiae vestitate quae regnante Antichristo tradenda sit in solitudinem, &c.. Now this former affertion, which is the common Tener of Papists, agreeth not with the speech of our Aduersarie, when he saith, That in the dayes of Antichrist, the Church shall be euerie where visible and con­spicuous, euen to the wicked: and he must reuoke his bold [...] in his first words; A truth so cleare that it may euidently be prooued, &c.

IESVIT.

The reason of this perpetuall visible vniuersalitie is, because the Tradition of the Church, is as I haue proo­ued, C the sole ordinarie meanes to ground faith on for substantiall points. Wherefore this Tradition must bee so deliuered, as that it may bee knowne to all men, see­ing God will haue all men (without any exception of nation) to bee saued, and to come to the knowledge of Truth, 1. Timothie 2. 4. But if the Church were not still so diffused in the world, that all knowne nations may take notice of her, all men could not be saued. D

ANSWER.

Although the teaching and Tradition of the Church, is the first Introduction, to leade people vnto the knowledge of the grounds of saluation, and the ordinarie meanes whereby they receiue the holy Scriptures, and rule of Faith contai­ned in the same (which is all you haue or can prooue Cassand. def. Iib. d. Offic. Pij. Viri. pag. 821. A quibus hanc Tra­ditionem accepimus, testes sunt [...], caelestis Doctrinae.) yet hence it followeth not, that the true Church is visibly vniuer­sall E in all places of the world.

First, you are reprooued by the example of the Indians, and [Page 78] people inhabiting the New found World who are Gods crea­tures A and reasonable men, formed [...] his image, capable of grace and [...] as well as other men, and included within the latitude of [...] promises, [...]. [...] recte dici [...] iftos ad promissio­nem Dei [...] per­tinere. Non enim Romanos sed om­nes genres Domi­nus, semini [...], media [...] iuratione [...]. Math. 28.19. Marc. 16.15. Call. 2.28. Call. 3.11, and the Apostles speech, 1. [...]. [...]. 4. God will [...] all men to be [...] &c, [...] them as well as others. And yet notwithstanding, the true Church whose Tradition (according to your position) is the sole ordinarie meanes to ground Faith on, was not for many ages either Actu­ally or Moraily visible, vniuersall, or any waies made knowne to them. B

It seemes by the conclusion of your Argument, wherein you insert these words, That all knowne nations, &c. that you obserued this, but you are no way able to cleere the difficultie: for if because S. Paul saith, God wil haue all men to be saued, and come to the knowledge of the Truth, the true Church must in all age be visibly vniuersall, then the same must be so in regard of the na­tions inhabiting the New found world, because S. Pauls words, God will haue all men to be saued, and come to the knowledge of the Truth, are vniuersall (according to your exposition) and must be vnderstood without limitation, or respect of persons. C

Secondly, when S. Paul saith, God wil haue all men to be saued, &c. He [...] according to the antecedent wil of God (as learned Papists commonly maintaine.) But Aquinas p. 1. q. 19. ar. 6. ad. 1. & 1. sent. d. 47. ar. 2. & d. verit. q. 23. ar. 3. Ri­chard. 1.47. ar. 1. q. 1. Scot. 1. d. 46. q. vnic. Occham, Gabriel. lb. q. 1. Bonauent. Du­rand. Herueus, Ca­preolus. this antecedent Will (ac­cording to some learned Papists) is no formall Will in God, but is only improperly and metaphorically so called Soto. Maior. com. 1. Tim. 2.4. pa. 274. De voluntate antecedenti, id est imaginaria & secū ­dum quid, impro­priè vel metapho­ricè dicta. Bannes 1. q. 19. art. 6. Zumel. 1. q. 19. art. 6. and ac­cording to others, which say it is a formall Will, the same pro­duceth not vniuersally either grace of outward calling to Saluation, or inward grace in them that are externally called, and therefore it is inconsequent to argue, from this manner of D Gods willing all men to be saued, That the true Church is in all ages visibly vniuersall. 1. Aquinas, and others say, that the antecedent will of God is only a velleitie [...] 1. q. [...]. ar. 6. ad. 1. Magis dici [...]. [...]. lb. pa. 595. Voluntas E [...] semper est voluntas inefficax, siue secundum quid, quae vocatur velleitas. or wishing that the thing might be, a complacencie in a thing considered ab­stractiuely and without other circumstances [...]. in. 1. p. Tho. q. 19. [...]. 6. Disp. 56. nu. 18. Pius d. Ponte Ibid. dub. 3. Cordub. lib. 1. q. 56. Aluar. d. Auxil. disp. 34. nu. 3. Meclin. in. 1. p. Tho. q. 19. art. 6. sect. 2., and that vpon it alone the Saluation of no man followeth. 2. The same is ge­nerall in respect of all Chrys. sup. Rom. Serm. 2. Quemadmodùm enim in Sole & Lu­na, [...], vbi neque [...] neque [...] amplius aliquid contributum est, sed aequa omnibus concessa fruitio: ita & in Euangelica doctrina, imò in hac tantò plenius quantò illa reliquis om­nibus necessaria magis [...]. and euery singular and indiuiduall per­son, and God by his antecedent will wisheth the Saluation of [Page 79] [...] A [...] by experience, that [...] Will, all [...] and singular persons: [...] by the ministerie of the true Church and that whole countries and nations for [...] ages [...] of the same, Prosper. d. lib. arb. ad Ruffin. Ne­que enim remotum est ab inspectione communi quot se­culis, quam innu­mera [...] lia [...] vera cognitione defecerint. Aug. epist. 80. Sunt apud nos hoc est in Africa Barbarae [...] gentes, in quibus nondum est praedicatum [...]. Id. [...]. 78. Quantae [...] adhuc [...] sine [...] Euangelio, &c. Quod remansit gentium, vbi nondum est Euangelium praedicatum. Origen. in Math. [...]. 28. [...] non [...], sed etiam nostrarum gentium, [...] nunc non [...] Christianitatis verbunt. Non­dum est praedicatum Euangelium regni in [...] orbe. Quid autem dicamus de Britannis, [...] Germanis, qui [...] circa [...] apud Barbaros, Dacos, & [...], & Scythas, quorum [...] audierunt [...] gelij verbum, &c. and some countries [...] the preaching of the Gospell sooner, and others latter, some haue been [...] in one age, and some in another. 4. Gods antecedent Will is alwaies the same: and [...] to it he [...] the Saluation of all men in the time of the Old Testa­ment, Ezek. 33.11. B

Now from the former positions, it followeth, that S. Pauls words, 1. Tim. 2.4. God will haue all men to be saued, &c. do not [...] that the true Church is visibly vniuersall in all C ages, since the Ascension of Christ, and the preaching of the Apostles.

For if the antecedent will of God (of which S. Paul spea­keth, 1. Tim. 2.4.) be onely a velleitie and complacencie about mans Saluation abstractiuely considered [...]. d. [...] disp. 34. nu. 3. Si consideretur falus reproborum secun­dum se & absolutè sic est à Deo [...]. Si autem [...] quod [...] pri­uationem, [...] splendoris [...] eius in electis sic non est volita à Deo. and if it respect sin­gular and indiuiduall persons as well as whole nations, and not­withstanding the same, many singular persons and whole nati­ons haue beene destitute (and that for a long space of time) of all meanes of conuersion and outward calling to Christianitie: and if the same Will, for some large tract of time, produceth D no external effect sufficient to conuert Infidels Lichet 2. sent. d. 47. q. vnic. Velle [...] quo ita placet volitum, quod tamen voluntas tale volitum non ponat in esse licet posset ponere illud in esse., then it follow­eth that the true Church, which is the onely ordinarie teacher of sauing veritie, is not visibly vniuersall in all places of the world in euery age.

The minor is prooued from the foure propositions former­ly deliuered. E

The sequell is euident by the exposition which our Aduer­saries deliuer of S. Pauls text, vnderstanding the same of the antecedent will of God, and from the position of the [...] deliuered in this section, which is, That the Tradition and Prea­ching of the true visible Church, is the sole ordinarie meanes to leade [Page 80] people to the knowledge of sauing Truth. For if the antecedent will A of God is not a certaine and infallible cause, that all people shal at all times haue the preaching of sauing Veritie by the mini­sterie of the true visible Church: then it is not necessarie, that because God will haue all men to be saued by his antecedent will, therefore the true Church must in all ages be visibly vni­uersall.

A contingent cause vndetermined, doth not produce or argue a constant, certaine, and necessarie effect.

The antecedent will of God is a contingent cause [...]. quest. 1. Schol. d. diu. vol. ar. 7. nu. 5. Cōtingentia dicitur de omni [...] quod potest esse & non esse, &c. Nequè opus est vt in hac latitudine denotet imperfectionem aliquam seu mutabilitatem, sed causam ità potentem operari vt in eius voluntate sit operari, aut non operari, Scotus. dist. 39. q. Vnic. Voluntas diuina nihil aliud re­spicit necessario pro obiecto, ab essentia sua: ad quodlibet igitur aliud contingentèr se habet. in respect of the perpetuall visible vniuersalitie of the Church. Ergo B

The antecedent will of God doth not produce or argue a perpetuall visible vniuersalitie of the Church.

For if notwithstanding the antecedent will of God, many singular persons and whole nations may be for some space of time destitute of outward calling by the ministerie of the C Church, and of all morall possibilitie for that space of time of the hauing thereof, and are not guiltie of the sinne of infideli­tie, because without any speciall demerit of their owne, they are destitute of the word of Faith, (as it is maintained by Aqui­nas Aquinas. 22. q. 10. ar. 1. Bannes. lb. Victoria. d. Indis. Relect. 5. nu. 8. and his followers) then the antecedent will of God is only a contingent cause, in respect of producing & arguing out­ward calling by the ministerie of the Church, and consequent­ly of the perpetuall visible vniuersalitie of the true Church.

But the first is true, as appeareth by the Indies Acosta. d. proc. Indorum. Sal. li. 1. c. 5. p. 133. Multos esse homines suis tene­bris relictos, occul­to Dei, veroquè [...], negare non possumus, ne (que) ho­mines modo, sed & familias, & vrbes, & integras saepe prouincias & gentes. Qui & olim fuerunt & nunc vsquè sunt sine Chri­sto, &c. before Co­lumbus arriuing in their coasts, and by many barbarous people D and nations liuing in remote regions, and hauing no preachers of the Gospell sent vnto them, before the two hundred, fiue hundred, or six hundred yeare after Christ, Ergo,

The latter is also true.

IESVIT.

Sixtly, this Church is holy both in life and doctrine: ho­ly E for life, shining in all excellent and wonderfull sanctitie, such as the Apostles gaue example of, as Pouertie, Chasti­tie, Obedience, Virginitie, Charitie, in vndergoing labours for the helpe of Soules, Fortitude, in suffering heroicall [Page 81] Martyredomes, Zeale and Patience in the rigorous trea­tie A of their bodies, by miraculous Fasting, and other au­sterities.

ANSVVER.

Sanctitie is a propertie and inseperable qualitie of the true Church in respect of all the liuing members thereof, Cant. 4. 7. Eph. 5.26, 27. 1. Cor. 14.33. Rom. 1.7. Eph. 1.18. & c. 4.12. Phil. 4.21. Coll. 1.12. 1. Cor. 6.11. 1. Iohn 3.18. B

And the same is called holy. First, Because it is clensed and washed from the guiltinesse of sinne by the immaculate blood of Christ Turrecr. sum, d. Eccles. lib. 1. ca. 9. Sanctum idem est quod sanguine tin­ctum vel [...] siue emundatū &c. Huius significatio­nis genere, maxime Dei Ecclesia sancta appellanda venit, quae sanguine Chri­sti respersa, purifi­cationem peccato­rum accepit, & de­corem induit san­ctitatis. Card. Moni­lian. Theolog. com­pend. c. 36. Dicitur sancta quasi san­guine Christi tincta: Christus enim eam lauit à peccatis suis, in sanguine suo. Eph. 5.26., Apoc. 1.5. Heb. 10.10. & c. 13.12. Secondly, Be­cause it is pertaker of the holinesse of Christ the head thereof by Grace, 1. Cor. 1.30. Ephes. 5.30. Iohn 17.19. Heb. 12.10. and because of the speciall inhabitation and operation of the holy Ghost August. sup. Psalm. 45., Ephes. 1.13. 1. Cor. 3.17. 1. Thessal. 4.8. 2. Tim. 1. 14. Thirdly, Because it is called and consecrated vnto holi­nesse, 2. Tim. 1.9. 1. Pet. 2.9. 1. Thessal. 4.7. Apoc. 1.6. Fourth­ly, Because the Faith, Doctrine, Lawes, Sacraments, and Reli­gion C thereof are holy Cordub. Arma. Fid. q. 1. Propos. 2. Bellarm. d. Ecclesia li. 4. ca. 11. Greg. Val. tom. 3. disp. 1. punct. 7. Bannes 22. q. 1. ar. 10. fo. 100. August. sup. Psal. 85. Accepit gratiam sanctitatis, [...] Baptismi, & [...] pec­catorum.. Iud. v. 20. 2. Pet. 2.20. Tit. 3.5. Fiftly, Because the vertues and actions thereof are truely and indeed holy, whereas the vertues of Infidels which liue out of the Church are prophane and vnholy, as bearing the image of ver­tue, but wanting the true forme and fruit thereof Aug. d. Ciuit. Dei, lib. 5. cap. 10. & li. 19. c. 25. & Enchir. c. 75. & sup. Ioh. tr. 76. & d. fid. & operib. c. 7. & d. verb. Dom. Serm. 12. & d. Temp. s. 32. Prosp. sent. 106. & d. Vit. Contempl. li. 3. c. 1. & d. voc. Gent. li. 1. c. 3. & d. lib. Arb. ad Ruffin. &c. Collator. pa. 149. Gregor. Armin. 2. d. 26. q. 1. Capreol. 2. d. 28. ad. 3. & d. 41. pa. 569. Cassalius, d. D quadrip. Iust. li. 1. c. 3. pa. 157..

But our Aduersarie passeth by these causes and reasons of the sanctitie of the Church, being proper and essentiall (which are deliuered in the holy Scripture) and will haue the same to be reputed holy, because of monasticall vowes of Pouertie, Obedience, and Chastitie, and for externall Fastings, Whip­pings, wearing of Haire-cloth, and other bodily exercises which some Heremites and Cloysterers performe in the Ro­man Church.

Touching this Assertion we are to obserue. E

First that the Iesuit doth onely affirme these things, but bringeth no proofe, and therefore it were sufficient for me to say with S. Hierom [...]. [...]. sup. Mat. c. 23. Quod de Scripturis non habet authoritatem eadem facilitate contemnitur qua probatur, That which wanteth [Page 82] authoritie from the Scriptures, may as well bee despised, as A receiued.

Secondly, when the principall Doctors of the Romish Church, deliuer the causes why the true Church is stiled Holy, they either omit these externall exercises, or else onely men­tion them as accessarie, Turrccrem. sum. d. Eccles. l. 1. c. 9. Cordub. Arma. fid. q. 1. propos. 2. Bannes. 22. q. 1. ar. 10. Bellarm. d. Ec­cles. l. 4. c. 11. Greg. Val. to. 3. Disp. 1. punct. 7.

Thirdly, these exercises are common to hypocrites and he­retickes, and they make not people holy and good which vse B them, and the Church may bee holy without them, and there­fore they are no constitutiue parts, or essentiall properties of the sanctitie of the Church. That the same are common, ap­peareth by the example of the Pharisees Epiph. c. Haer. c. 16. Quidā decé, &c. sibi annorū spaciū praefigebant quibus [...] aut ca­stitatem colorent: hoc tempus conti­nuis precibus tra­ducebant, & id cer­taminis frequenti restaurabant, &c. Alij super tabulas dodrantales, &c. Alij super pauimen­tum, & alij collectos calculos substerne­bant, &c. Alij spi­nas, &c., and of many He­retickes Montanistae. Euchitae. Apostolici., which vsed these exercises with great austeritie, and yet they were no sound parts of the holy Catholicke Church. And that the Church may be holy without these exercises, is manifest, by reason and example. The Church which wanteth these things, may haue all the causes of sanctitie, to wit, Faith, Hope, Charitie, Regeneration, remission of sinnes, &c. There­fore it may bee holy without them. And the Church of the C Hebrews, to which Saint Paul wrote his Epistle, was an holy Church, yet Saint Chrysostome Chrys. [...]. 25. in moral. sup. Ep. Heb. saith: [...], &c. There was not so much as any footstep of a Monke, &c.

Fourthly, these monasticall vowes haue many times distai­ned and corrupted the Church: and therefore they are no mayne or proper actions of holinesse. Aluares Pelagius Planct. Eccles. li. 2. Ar. 54. fol. 176. col. 3. saith of the Monkes and Cloysterers of his age: that they were Paupertatis professores, sed haereditatum successores: Professours of pouertie, and heires apparant to euerie mans land. Ma­thew D Paris In Henrico 3. fol. 592. saith, That the Mendicants in England raised stately buildings, equall to Princes palaces, and they hoorded vp inualua­ble treasure, &c. And Papirius Masson d. Episc. vrbis. l. 6. in Clement. 5. saith, Pouertie which re­ligious Orders seeme to professe, is more hatefull to them than to any other sort of men.

The vow of Chastitie made the most of them more im­pure than dogs, and to stinke before God and men. That many of them were Sodomites, is affirmed by no meaner man than Saint Bernard Bernard. d. con­uers. ad Cleric. c. 29. Post fornicationes, post adulteria, post incestus, nec ipsa quidem apud ali­quos ignominiae passiones & [...] opera desunt, &c. Nunquid non [...] ciuitates illae huius spur citiae ma­tres, diuino prae damnatae iuditio & incendio de letae [...], &c. Multi nec latere queunt prae multitudine nec prae impudentia quaerunt., who saith, Besides fornication, a­dulterie, E and incest, the deedes of ignominie and turpitude, for which the cities of Sodome and Gomorrha were predamned, are not [Page 83] wanting, &c. Rodericus, a famous Bishop, saith Rodericus, spe­cul. hum. vitae, lib. 2. c. 19. Nec vna vni sufficit muliercula, nisi retentam ha­beat domi vt vxo­rem, Concubinas vero & Adolescen­tulas quarum non est numerus, pag. 305., That Votaries A and Regulars were not satisfied with one woman, but kept Concubines and young Damosells sans number. Alphonsus Castro saith Alphons. [...]. d. Haer-punit. lib. 3. c. 5. Tam frequens [...] est Sacerdotum incontinentia vt si quis illorum castus esse sciatur, quam­uis multa alia illi desint necessaria, ob hoc solum, sanctus a populo habeatur., The incontinencie of Priests is in these dayes so frequent, that if but one of them be knowne to liue chastly, although many other necessarie [...] lities be wanting in him, he is esteemed a holy man by the people for this one qualitie. Aluares Pelagius saith Aluar. Pelag. d. planct. Eccles. lib. 2. art. 51. Sed hodie Cellulae nostrorum Anachoritarū Hy­pochriticarum, à mulierculis visitan­tur: quod eis saepe, &c., That the Cells of An­chorites were dayly visited by women. And in another place Artic. 27. Per plurimos annos de latere Concubinae qualibet die surgunt., Priests for many yeeres together doe arise euerie day from their Con­cubines sides, and without going to Confession, say Masse. And in B another place Artic. 7. Apoc. 18. Custodia omnis immundi spiritus: quia intra Ecclesiam omnia peccata inueniuntur hodie quae immunda dicun­tur, &c. Quis enim Clericorum intra sanctam Ecclesiam Castitatem seruat per pauci sunt hodie Presbyteri, maxime in Hispania & regno Apuliae, qui cum sint publici Concubinarij, &c. Nihilominus tota die celebrant, & dant Ecclesiastica Sacramenta., Quis Clericorum intra sanctam Ecclesiam, Casti­tatem seruat? What Clerke is there within the holy Church, which obserueth Chastitie? And againe, There be few Priests in these dayes, in Spaine and Apulia, which doe not openly foster Con­cubines. Dionysius Carthusian saith Dionys. Carthus. c. Plural. Ben. art. 13. Pet. Blesen. Serm. in Synodo. Quidam focarias habent, quidam alienis abutuntur vxoribus, sicut trahit sua quemque voluptas. Idem. Serm. ad Sacerd. Videmus hodie Sacerdotes cum filijs Eli fuscinulas tenentes & cum mulieribus in atrio Tabernaculi, excubantes: & facti sunt equi Emissarij. Vnusquisque ad vxorem proximi hinniebat. Videmus hodie Sacerdotes sedentes cum Baltazar in Conniuijs cum Vxoribus & Concubinis abutentes vasis Domino consecratis., Paucissimi eorum proh dolor, continenter viuunt; Few of them (out alas) liue continently. And S. Bridget the Nunne in her Reuelation saith Re­uel. Bridg. l. 6. c. 35. Paucissimi inueniuntur alij & tam pauci vt vix vnus reperitur in centum., Not one among a hundred. And the same Bridget speaking of Nunnes, saith Lib. 4. c. 33. Portae indifferenter Clericis & Laicis quibus placet sororibus introitum dare etiam in ipsis noctibus sunt apertae. Et ideo talia loca fimiliora sunt Lupanaribus quam sanctis Claustris. Gerson. to. 1. declar. def. Ecclesiae, pag. 208. D Oculos apperite & inquirite, si quae hodie Claustra Monialium facta sunt quasi prostibula meretricum. Nichol. Clemang. d. corrup. stat. Eccles. Quid obsecro aliud sunt hoc tempore puellarum [...], nisi quaedam non dico Dei Sanctuaria, sed veneris execranda prostibula, sed lasciuorum [...] ad libidines explendas recepta­cula, vt idem sit hodie puellam velare quod & publice ad scortandum impellere. Onus, Eccles. c. 22. §. 12. Adeo propatula, vt ipsa loca veneris prostibulo sint similiora quam Dei sacrario: hinc procacitas, stuprum, incestus [...] sacratarum., Talia loca similiora sunt Lupanaribus, quam sanctis Cellis; Such places are more like Brothelhouses and common Stewes, than holy Cells. C

The Vow of Pouertie brought forth perpetuall Theft and Rapine, and that from the Widow and fatherlesse. The Vow of Chastitie filled all the Earth with the steame of Brothel­some impuritie: and the Vow of blind Obedience, caused hatefull and direfull Murthers, euen of Kings, and Gods an­nointed; E Concerning whom, the holy Prophet saith, Touch not mine annointed: and the sacred Historie reports to all po­steritie, That Dauids heart smote him, because he cut off a piece of the Kings Garment.

[Page 84] These voluntarie Exercises and Deuotions carrie a great A shew of perfection and merit among worldly people, euen as the Pharisaicall will-worship in ancient time did: But yet ex­perience taught them (which beheld these things in the height of their pride) that the more these Vowes and religious Or­ders encreased, the more Ignorance, Infidelitie, Iniquitie, and all manner of Plagues multiplyed in the World. Antonin. sum. Histor. p. 3. tit. 23. c. 9. §. 5 [...]. [...] Quidam dixit Vincentio, quid fuit quod postquam fratres praedicatores, & minores venerunt in mundum nunquam fuit bonum tempus, &c. [...], Eccles. c. 8. §. 4. Abbas Ioach. Vbertinus, d. Casalis. Bridget. Reuel. Extrauag. c. 83. B.

IESVIT.

This sanctitie shineth not in all the Children of the Church, but in the more eminent Preachers, and Profes­sors: which kind of sanctitie, together with Miracles, if the Church did want, she could not be a sufficient Witnesse of Truth vnto Infidels, who commonly neuer begin to af­fect C and admire Christianitie, but vpon the fight [...] sucb wonders of sanctitie, and other extraordinarie workes.

ANSWER.

Sanctitie of Grace (which is a perpetuall propertie of the true Church) shineth in all the sound and liuing members of the Church, Phil. 2. 15. And whereas the measure and degrees thereof are [...], the most eminent degree of sanctitie is not D alwayes found in Preachers, or in Popes, and greater Prelates, or in persons professing Monasticall life; but the same may be equall, or greater, in Lay persons, or in people of meane e­steeme: as appeareth by the state of the Iewish Church, in the dayes of Esay, cap. 1.9. and of the Pharisees, at such time as our Sauiour was incarnate. Dominicus Bannes, a famous Schoole-man, treating of the sanctitie of the Church, saith Bannes. 22. q. 1. ar. 10. p. 101. Sum­mus Pontifex rati­one status & obli­gationis dicitursan­ctissimus licet actu non sit talis. Sym­mechus, Papa, d. 40. cap. 1. Non nos. [...]. Can. Miss. Lect. 49. &c., That the supreame Bishop, the Pope, is said to be most holy, because of his State and Office, although indeed hee is not so. Rode­ricus speaking of the Clergie of his times, saith [...]. Episc. Zamor. Speculum, vit. Lib. 2. cap. 20. pag. 316., Rectores E moderni, non Pastores, sed raptores, ouium tonsores, non ad viridia pascua ductores, non piscatores, sed negotiatores, non dispensatores [Page 85] bonorum crucifixi, sed voratores, &c. Our moderne Church-men A are not Pastors, but Raueners; they fleece their Sheepe, and lead them not to the greene Pastures; they are not stewards, but deuourers of the goods of Christ crucified, &c. And Laurent. Iustinianus saith Laur. Iust. d. compunct & planct. Christi, pag. 575. Clericorum [...] maxima pars, [...] iacet voluptatibus, & be­stiarum more, quasi degentium parum ab illa secularium illorum conuersatio distat. Incedunt quotidie per plateas, &c. Theatris & spectaculis intersunt & [...] vacant & nugis, &c. tanquam extranei vineam Domini derelinquunt, inemendabiles permanent, [...] gerunt cor, obturatas habent aures, sine intellectu sunt syllabarum, tantum proferentes [...], ab omni spi­rituali deficiunt gustu., The greatest part of Priests and Clerkes in our dayes liue voluptuously, and after the manner of Beasts. Paucissimi reperiuntur qui honestè viuunt, rariores autem, qui pabulum salutis gregibus valeant praebere fidelium; Verie few are found, which lead an honest life; and a farre smaller number of such, as are able to minister the food of saluation to their flockes. B

In the next words our Iesuit affirmeth, That if the Church wanted the sanctitie aforesaid, together with Miracles, shee could not be a sufficient witnesse of Truth to Infidels, &c.

This Assertion, concerning the perpetuitie, and absolute ne­cessitie C of Miracles in all Ages, is repugnant to the Fathers August. sup. [...]. 130. Nec ideo mo­do non datur spiri­tus sanctus, quia linguis non loquuntur qui credunt. Ideo enim [...] oportebat vt linguis loquerentur, vt significarent omnes gen­tes credituras, vbi impletum est quod significabatur, miraculum ablatum est., and to many learned Papists, and it is voluntarily affirmed by our Aduersarie.

First, If the gift and power of Miracles were perpetuall, and inseparable from the true [...] in all Ages, this would appeare by some reuelation, or promise of holy Scripture, as well as other gifts and priuiledges of the same. But there is no D reuelation, or promise, concerning perpetuitie of the gift of Miracles, more than of the gift of Tongues, or of Prophesie, or the giuing of the Holy Ghost, by imposition of Hands August. c. Don­lib. 3. c. 16. Neque [...] & [...] attestantibus, per manus [...] modo datur Spiritus Sanctus, &c. Xauer. lib. 3. ep. 5. Si nos linguam calleremus Iaponicam, non [...] quin [...] fierent Christiani, faxit Deus vt breui eam addiscamus, tum demum aliquam Christianae Rei [...] operam, nam [...] quidem inter eos tanquam mutae [...] versamur. Greg. Moral. lib. 34. c. 3. Stunic. d. Relig. lib. 1. c. 14. Modo a nobis signa atque Prodigia non sunt postulanda, &c. [...]. Summa. praedic. Ver. Fides, E art. 9. Delrio. Disq. Mag. to. 2. lib. 4. c. 4. quaest. 5. sect. 2. pa. 683., &c. And these gifts were neuer promised in the Scripture to be perpetuall, and are long since ceased. August. Retrac. Lib. 1. cap. 13.

Secondly, The Fathers which liued since the foure hundreth yeere, affirme, That outward Miracles, such as the Apostles [Page 86] wrought, were [...] Chrys. in 1. Co­rinth. Hom. 6. Mo­ral. Quanto certio­res & magis neces­sariae res sunt, tanto fides est minor, & hoc est [...] signa in praesentia non fiant. Idem, sup. Ioh. Hom. 23. Sunt sane & hac nostra aetate qui quaerant, quare & nunc figna non fiunt? Si fidelis es vt [...], si Chri­stum diligis vt diligendus est, non indiges signis, signa enim in credulis dantur. in their dayes, and not absolutely neces­sarie A for after times: Gregor. Moral. 27. cap. 11. & Lib. 34. cap. 2. & super Euang. Hom. 29. August. d. vera Relig. cap. 25. & d. Ciuit. Dei, Lib. 22. cap. 8. & sup. Psal. 130. Chrysost. in Matth. Hom. 4. & Imperfect. in Matth. Hom. 49. & sup. 1. Timoth. Hom. 10.

Thirdly, Many learned Papists hold, That the gift of Mira­cles B is rare, and vnnecessarie, in these later times: Abulensis, Le­uit. cap. 9. q. 14 Abul. Leuit. 9. q. 14. In [...] Ecclesia [...] ista necessaria, ad intro­ducendam fidé E­uangelij, nunc au­tem quia sufficien­ter introducta est, non oportet mira­cula vlla esse., Trithemias Abbas, Lib. 8. Q. ad Imperat. Max. q. 3. Roffensis, c. Luther. a. Captiu. Babylon. c. 10. n. 4. pag. 81. Acosta, d. Procur. Indorum Salut. Lib. 2. cap. 8. pag. 218 Acosta. Non so­lum Signorum vis C nostris temporibus deest, verum pro ijs etiam scelera vbique vigent.. Stella in Luc. cap. 11. Cornel. Muss. Conc. Dominic. Pentecost. pag. 412. And some of them censure the reporters of Miracles, as Im­postors, and grosse Fabulers and Lyars. Gerson. Lib. c. Sect. Flagellantium. Canus, Loc. Lib. 11. cap. 6 [...]. Nec ego hic libri illius authorem excuso qui speculum exemplorum scribitur, nec historiae eius quae Legenda aurea nuncupatur. In illo enim mira­culorum monstra saepius quam vera miracula legas. Hanc scripsit homo ferrei oris & plumbei pectoris.. Ludouicus Viues, Erasmus, Occham, Espenceus Espenc. in 2. Timoth. 4. Digr. 21. pa. 150. &c..

Fourthly, If Infidels cannot be assured, that the Wonders which they outwardly behold, are the workes of the true God Acost. d. Proc. Indor. Sal. li. 2. c. 9. Et si in praesentia signa viderentur, quis tamen persua­deret? quis exter­norum aures nobis accomodaret, cum tantopere increbre­scat malitia?, and if the same may be the illusions of the Deuill [...]. sup. Ex­od. cap. 7. [...] p. 11. Hinc aperte cognoscitur, multa videri miracula, quae non sunt, & proprium esse Diaboli, &c. simulare Prophetiam, & miracula.; then the operations of such Miracles can be no infallible argu­ment of Veritie, and consequently, no meanes of conuerting Infidels. But Bellarmine affirmeth Bellarm. d. Eccles. lib. 4. cap. 14. Ante probationem Ecclesiae non est euidens aut certum, [...] fidei de vilo [...], quod sit verum miraculum. Non constat [...] certitudine cui non possit subesse falsum non esse illusionem [...]. Acosta, d. Proc. Indor. Sal. lib. 2. cap. 9. Denique quid magnorum signorum consirmatione opus est, vbi potius [...] acutior [...], quae altitudinem doctrinae nostrae aliqua [...]? Greg. val. sup. Thom. tom. 3. Disp. 1. q. 1. punct. 4. pag. 99. Ipsa miracula per se, non ef­ficiunt certitudinem infallibilem de doctrina, &c. Biel. in Can. [...]. Lect. 49. X. Miracula [...] E fiunt operatione Daemonum, ad fallendum inordinatos cultores, Deo permittente, & exigente talium infide­litate., That before the approba­tion D of the Church (which Infidels know not) it is not euident and certaine by Faith, concerning any Miracle, that the same is true, and Diuine; and it is possible for the same to be an illusion of Sathan.

IESVIT. A

Holy for doctrine, in regard her Traditions be diuine and holy, without any mixture of errour.

ANSVVER.

The Church which buildeth it selfe vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, Eph. 2.20. And which heareth the voyce of Christ, Iohn 10.27. is holy, both for life and doctrine. B But as holinesse of life is compatible with some kind of sinne, 1. Iohn 1.8. Euen so sanctitie of doctrine excludeth not all er­rour. S ^t. Augustine, a man as holy as any since the Apostles, saith, August. d. A­nimi. orig. c. 1. Ne­que enim negare debeo sicut in ipsis moribus, ita multa esse in tam multis opusculis meis, quae possunt iusto iuditio & nulla temeritate culpari. I must not deny, but that as in my manners; euen so in my workes and writings, many things may iustly, and without any temeritie be reprehended.

IESVIT. C

For if the Church could deliuer, by consent of Ancestors: together with truth, some errours; her Traditions, euen about truth, were questionable, and could not bee beleeued vpon the warrant of her Tradition.

ANSWER.

If Ancestors may erre and be deceiued, then the later Church may vpon their reports deliuer some errours, together with D truth, and yet the Tradition thereof, concerning matters which are grounded vpon diuine Testimonie, is infallible Hieron. sup. Ag­geum c. 1. Nec [...] nec maio­rum error sequen­dus est, sed autho­ritas scripturarum, & Dei docentis Im­perium.. The Church may speake of it selfe, and vpon report of them whose Testimonie is humane and fallible: And it speaketh also vpon the authoritie of Gods word. In the first, it may erre and bee Maioranus. d. vero Dei cultu. l. 2. c. 28. Quid igitut agere debem' cum quispiam ex patri­bus nostris siue v­nus siue plures ali­quid asserrere com­perimus quod Ca­tholicae fidei non sit consentaneum? [...] illud con­temnendum est: vtique, &c. At quid de patribus illis, num & ipsi quo (que) repudiandi sunt? Nequaquam, sed in cae­teris omnibus amplectendi sunt & audiend. Etenim quamuis errarunt, errare tamen [...]. [...] in omnibus, neque semper errauerunt. Greg. Moral. l. 2. c. 41. Abulens. 2. Reg. c. 7. q. 6. deceiued, and consequently the Testimonie thereof absolutely bindeth not people to beleeue. But when it confirmeth her doctrine and Tradition by diuine Testimonie, the Tradition thereof, is the Tradition and voyce of God himselfe, worthy of all acceptation. Neither is her Testimonie fallible and doubtfull in this latter kinde, because of errour in the first, any E more than the Prophesie of Nathan was fallible, when he spake [Page 88] by inspiration to Dauid, 2. Sam. 7.5. Although when he former­ly A answered by a humane spirit, he was deceiued. Balaam is a credible witnesse in all those verities which God put into his mouth, Numb. 23.5, 18. & 24. 1. And yet in other matters which proceeded from himselfe, he was fallible. And Iosephus a Iew is credited in the Testimonie which hee gaue of Christ, Antiq. lib. 18. c. 4 [...], &c.. although in many other reports he was de­ceiued. The antient Fathers, Iustin Martyr, Ireneus, Origen, S ^t. Cyprian, erred in some things Francisc. Picus. Theorem. 23. Multi erroribus de mille annis, & de itera­tione Baptismi, &c. Maculati, beatitu­dine sunt donati, & ab Ecclesia celebra­ti: vti Papias, Cy­prianus, Victorinus, Ireneus, &c., and yet their authoritie in other matters, which they deliuered consonantly to holy Scripture, is credible. Our Aduersaries confesse, that their B Popes may erre personally, and that their Popes and Councels may erre in the Premises and Arguments Canus loc. l. 6. c. 8. Stapl. princip. Doct. l. 8. c. 15. & Relect. c. 4. q. 2. p. 467. & 469. [...]. Tena. Isagog. script. difficul. 1. sect. 4. [...]. C Introduct. Theol. l. 5. c. 7. p. 598., from which they deduce conclusions of Faith, and yet they will haue their defi­nitiue sentences to be of infallible authoritie. Cardinall Ia­cobatius [...]. d. Concil. l. 5. ar. 10. p. 293. Etsi possit errare, non sequitur [...] prop­teria possit recusari, vt suspectum: vt in simili [...] in matrimonio. in ca. Tenor, & ca. Lator. & ca. consanguinei. d. re iudic. cùm simil., speaking in the Popes defence, saith; That it follow­eth not, because one hath erred, that therefore his testimonie is altoge­ther inualid, and to be refused: And hee confirmeth this assertion by diuers Texts of the Canon Law.

IESVIT.

And whereas some Protestants affirme that the Church cannot erre in fundamentall points, but onely in things of lesse moment. The truth is, that in her perpetuall Tradi­tions, D. Feeld 4. Booke of the Church, ca. 3. and others. she cannot erre at all. If the Tradition of the Church D deliuering a small thing, as receiued from the Apostles, may be false, one may call into question her Traditions of moment, especially if he please to thinke them not to be of moment for like as if we admit in the Scriptures errours in small mat­ters, wee cannot be sure of its infallibitie in substantiall A proofe that the perpetuall Tradi­tion of the true Church cannot be false in any the least point of faith. See S. Aug. ep. 19. ad Hieronimum. matters. So likewise, if we grant Tradition perpetuall to be false in things of lesse importance, we haue no solid ground to defend her Traditions, as assured in other of moment: wherefore as he that should say, That Gods written word E is false in some lesser matters; as when it sayes, That S. Paul left his cloake at Troas, erreth fundamentally, by rea­son of the consequence, which giueth occasion to doubt of [Page 89] the truth of euery thing in Scripture: Euen so hee that A granteth that some part of Traditions, or of the word of God vnwritten, may bee false, erreth substantially; be­cause he giueth cause to doubt of any Tradition; which yet, as I haue shewed, is the prime originall ground of Faith, more fundamentall than the verie Scripture, which is not knowne to be Apostolicall but by Tradition: whereas a per­petuall Tradition is knowne to come from the Apostles by its owne light. For what more euident than that, that is B from the Apostles, which is deliuered as Apostolicall, by per­petuall succession of Bishops, consenting therein.

ANSWER.

The true Church in her sounder members, erreth not in points fundamentall, nor yet in matters of lesse moment, ma­liciously, or with pertinacie Occham. Dial. p. 1. l. 5. c. 28. In Ec­clesia militante est C certum iuditium quantum ad ea quae necesse est credere explicite ad salutem aeternam consequendam, quia sem­per vsque ad finem mundi erunt aliqui Catholici qui tali modo in vera [...] explicite permanebunt.: But the same may be ignorant, and also erre in secondarie Articles Sed circa illa quae non sunt necessaria explicite credere non est necesse quod semper in Ecclesia Catholica sit tale iudicium, quìa multa sunt de quibus melius est pie dubitare, quam vnam partem contradictionis vel [...] temere affirmare. Nequaquam tamen circa quae cun (que) talia, Catholici omnes aut pertinaciter errabunt aut pertinaciter dubitabunt, &c. pa. 497. Idem pa. 1. l. 2. c. 4. Error qui pertinaciam non habet, non obuiat sanctitati. [...]. summ. d. Eccl. l. 2. c. 112. Quamuis Ecclesia dono & authoritate diuina fulciatur, tamen in quantum est hominum congregatio aliquid ex defectu humano in actibus suis prouenit, quod non est diuinum. Lombard. l. 4. dist. 18. f. Ita & hic aperte ostenditur, quod non semper sequitur Deus, Ecclesiae iudicium, quae per [...] & ignorantiam interdum iudicat. Francisc. Picus. Theorem. 23. Fieri potest, vt vicarium caput aegrotet, quemad. & naturale, & sicut hoc noxios humores, ita illud praua dogmata, immittat in corpus..

The reason of the first is, because the same should then cease D to bee the true Church, by corrupting the substance of right faith, expresly or vertually; and consequently, there should re­maine no true Church vpon earth, which is impossible.

The reason of the second is, because the Church, since the Apostles, is not guided by immediate inspiration, or by Pro­pheticall reuelation, but by an ordinarie assistance of grace, ac­companying the vse of right meanes, which remooueth not possibilitie of errour, but leaueth space for humane iudgement, being regenerate onely in part, Heb. 5.2. Gal. 5.17. Aug. Enchir. c. 63. to worke by his proper force and power.

Secondly, the Church hath no perpetuall Traditions, but E such as are either contained in holy Scripture [...]. [...]. 74. [...] Traditio, &c. Si in Euangclio precipitur aut in Apostolorum Epistolis, aut actibus continetur, &c. obseruetur diuina haec & sancta [...]. Idem. serm. d. [...]. Christiana religio inuenit [...] Scriptura, [...] doctrinarum regulas emanasse, & hic nasci & [...], quic quid Ecclesiastica [...] disciplina., or which are [Page 90] subseruient to maintaine the faith, veritie, and authoritie of the A holy Scriptures, and the doctrine thereof.

Thirdly, whereas the Iesuit saith: That euen as no vntruth can be admitted in the holy Scripture, in regard of such things as are of the least moment, without ouerthrowing the totall authoritie thereof: so likewise no errour, great or small, can bee admitted in the doctrine and Tradition of the present Church, because vpon the same will follow the subuersion of all her Tradition, euen in matters essentiall.

I answere: That there is not the same reason of the Scrip­ture and the Church, for the Scripture is totally and perfectly diuine, and must alwayes bee so esteemed; and to admit any B errour or possibilitie thereof in Scripture, were to make God a lyar, and consequently, to ouerthrow all faith Aug. d. Doctr. Christiana lib. 1. ca. 37. Titubabit auté fides si Scripturarú vaccillat authoritas [...]. in Math. hom. 1.. But the pre­sent Church is onely the seruant of God, and of his word Chrys. d. La­zaro. hom. 4. Etiam fi mortuus reniuis­cat, etiam si Ange­lus de Coelo descé­dat maxime omni­um credendum est Scripturis, nam Angelorum herus, mortuorum paritèr ac viuentium Dominus ipse eas con­di dit., Iohn 10.27. and hath no credit or authoritie but from it, and al­though the same may erre in some things, yet there remaineth alwaies a higher and more soueraigne Iudge Aug. c. Faust. Manich. li. 11. ca. 5. Tanquam in sede quadam sublimitur constituta est, cui [...] omnis fidelis & pius intellectus., to wit, the holy Ghost speaking in and by the Scriptures, to whom Christians, desirous of truth, may appeale Aug. in Psalm. 22. Optatus Mileuitanus c. Parmen. li. 5. De Coelo, quaerendus est Iudex, & qui in tumulo quiescit tacitis tabulis loquitur viuus, voluntas eius velut in testamen­to sic inquiratur., and by whose sentence the Doctrine and Traditions of the present Church are to bee iudged. C

Whosoeuer admitteth any errour or vntruth in the holy Scripture, taketh away all authoritie from that which is the prime foundation of supernaturall veritie Aug. d Trinit. lib. 3. ca. 11. Nec re­licto solidaméto di­uini eloquij &c.. But he that admit­teth error or fallibilitie of iudgement in some Traditions and Doctrines of the Pastours of the present Church, doth onely D make the credit of a secondarie and inferior witnesse, subiect to triall and examination of an higher Iudge. And euen as in buil­ding the rule and measure of proportion must alwaies be euen and right in it selfe, but the workemans hand may possibly leane or shake, and applie his rule amisse: so likewise the holy Scriptures which are the principles of Theologie Cameracensis 1. Sent. q. 1. Art. 1. Principia Theolo­gica sunt ipsae sacri Canonis veritates, quoniam ad ipsas fit vltimata resolu­tio [...], & ex eis [...] singulae propositiones, Theologiae deducuntur., and the most exact ballance and measure of diuine Veritie (as S. Chrysostome speaketh Chrys. 2. Cor. hom. 13. [...]. Aug. c. Don. lib. 2. ca. 6. Afferamus diuinam stateram de Scripturis sanctis. [...] serm. d. Bapt. Christiana religio inuenit ex hac Scriptura, omnium Doctrina­rum regulas emanasse, & hic nasci, & huc [...] quicquid Ecclesiastica continet disciplina.) must be free from all obliquitie of error, and to ad­mit the least error in the Scripture ouerthroweth the founda­tion of Faith. But the Ministerie and Tradition of the Church E [Page 91] is like an Artificers hand, which may sometimes leane and goe A awrie, and yet the foundation of Veritie abideth firme in the prime authenticall rule, and by the same, the errour of mens Tradition and Doctrine may be corrected.

Fourthly the Iesuit affirmeth, That Tradition (to wit, of the Church since the Apostles) is the prime originall ground of Faith, more fundamentall than the Scripture. This assertion is Antichri­stian and impudent Hieron. sup. Aggeum. c. 1. Quae absque authoritate & testimonio scrip­turarum quasi Tra­ditione Apostolica sponte reperiút at­què confingunt, percutit gladi Dei., for can any thing be more fundamentall than the foundation Bassolis, praef. Prolog. sup. Sent. Quartum principa­le. De primo nota quod fundamenta eius in montibus sanctis. Fundamen­tum enìm Scriptu­rae sacrae, Christus est, petra solidissi­ma supra quā fun­data est veritas Scripturae., or of greater authoritie than the word of God? S. Peter speaking of the Propheticall Scriptures, equalleth the same to the sensible voice of God, which was B vttered in the Apostles audience from heauen, Math. 3.17. & c. 17.5. saying, [...], We haue the most sure word of Prophesie, &c. vpon these words S. Augustine d. verb. Apostoli, serm. 29. commenteth as followeth: Et cum dixisset hanc vocem audiuimus de Coelo delatam, subiunxit atque ait, habemus certiorem propheticum sermonem, sonuit illa vox de Coelo, certior est propheticus sermo, when the Apostle had said, We heard this voice from heauen; he addeth further, and saith, We haue a more sure word of prophesie. That voice sounded from heauen; and yet the propheticall word is more sure: he C said more sure, not better or truer, because that word from heauen was as good and as profitable as the word of prophe­sie; Why therefore more sure? Because the hearer was more confirmed by it Certioré sane dixit certiorem nō meliorem non ve­riorem. Tam enim verus ille sermo de Coelo, quam sermo Propheticus, tàm bonus tàm vtilis. Quid est ergo certiorem, nisi in quo magis confirmetur Auditor..

Our Sauiour himselfe in the Gospell examineth the Tradi­tions of the Pharises, and of the Iewish Church then being, by the Scriptures, Math. 5.6. and 7. & Ch. 12.5. & c. 15.4. & D 19.4. And the holy Ghost in the new Testament, both in the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, confirmeth the Truth which was taught, by the authoritie of the Scriptures, and Christ Iesus perpetually submitteth himselfe and his doctrine to the triall of the Scriptures, and the Apostles after him did the like, Acts 26.22. The antient Fathers affirme, that the Scriptures are of most eminent authoritie Aug. d. [...]. Dei, li. 11. c. 3. & lib. 14. ca. 7., and that wee are aboue all things to giue credit to them Chrys. d. Laza­ro Hom. 4., and that they are the mouth of God Rupert in Mat. lib. 4. cap. 5. ver. 2. Quod est illud os Domini, nisi [...] per quas nobis loquitur [...], and the verie hand of God Chrys. Hom. d. Expuls. ipsius. Lego manum cius, &c. Aug. [...]. 144. Quoddam Chyrographum Dei quod omines transeuntes legerent & viam promissio­nis [...] tenerent., and Paul, and Peter, and Iohn, and the whole companie of the Prophets E do speake with vs by them Chrys. in Rom. hom. 30., and that Faith it selfe, by which [Page 92] a iust man liueth, is conceiued by them Aug. d. Ciuit-Dei li. 19. ca. 18., and the Church it A selfe is demonstrated (to wit, tanquam à priori) by them Idem ep. 50. & d. vnit. Eccles. c. 3.. But on the contrarie, Traditions receiue their authoritie from the Scriptures, and may not be admitted vnlesse they agree with the Scriptures: And in our Aduersaries Tenet, men must first beleeue the authoritie of the Church before they can receiue or beleeue Tradition: from all which it followeth, that Tradi­tion of the present Church is neither the prime originall ground of Faith, nor yet more fundamentall, concerning Faith, than the Scripture.

The Trident Councell held it sufficient to equall Tradition B with the Scriptures. This new master with Baronius Annal. tom. 1. Anno. 53. n. 11. & Pighius Pighius con­crouers. 3. preferreth them before the Scriptures. These men perceiue that the Roman Faith cannot subsist, vnlesse they depresse the written word of God, and exalt the prophane, bastardly, and Apocriphall Traditions of the Pope. They say the Scripture is a breathlesse lumpe Coster. Enchi­rid. loc. d. Pontif. pa. 135. a nose of wax Pigh. contro­uers. 3. pa. 92. Idem Hierarch. Epistol. Nuncupator. [...]. disp. 2. d. fid. pag. 21. Ipsae Scripturae quoad bonam par­tem, difficiles sunt, obscurae & ambi­guae, inflar nasi ce­rei, & regulae lesbiae, susque deque tra­hi possunt ab im­pijs., a leaden rule Andrad. de­fens. lib. 2. pag. 257. Neque in libris ip­sis quib' sacra my­steria cōscripta sút, quicquam inest di­uinitatis, quae nos ad credendum quae illis continentur, re­ligiono aliqua constringat, &c. Bannes 22. q. 1. ar. 10. pag. 181. Cum sitelinguis & mortua, seipsam [...] non valet.. Andradius wri­teth, That in the Books of the Scriptures themselues, there is no diuini­tie or any thing else binding vs to beleeue Stapl. Princip. Doctr. lib. 12. ca. 2. pa. 444.. Stapleton saith, That being considered as written, it can no way be called the Temple or Tabernacle C of the holy Ghost Bos. d. Signis Eccles. tom. 2. lib. 16. ca. 10.. Bosius saith, The holy Ghost resideth in the Church more effectually and nobly than in the Bookes of the Scripture Ma­ioranus Clyp. lib. 2. cap. 28. Vnus Ecclesiae consensus qui nunquam caruit spiritu Deipluris apud nos esse debet, quā omnes elingues, & muti codices, & quotquot fuerunt sunt & erunt, vnquam scripta volumina, quae homi­num ingenijs semper materiam contentionis prebuerunt.. And Majoranus hath these words, The consent of the Church alone which neuer wanted the spirit of God, ought to be of greater esteeme with vs, than all mute and tonguelesse Bookes, and than all the written volumes which are or euer were, and which haue in all ages ministred fuell of contention to the wits of men [...]. Def. [...]. d. verb. Dei, lib. 4. cap. 4. & cap. 12. Putasnè plures haereses & sectas exorituras fuisse, si nulla penitus Scriptura extitisset, quam E nunc cum Scriptura mortalibus è Coelo data est? Ego certe propior sum existimanti, pauciores, [...] futu­ras.. And Gretsar the Iesuit, There would haue beene fewer contentions in the world (as I supose) if there had beene no Scripture at all. Iacob Brower a Reader of Do­way Clauis, Apostolica ar. 8. Nomine Ecclesiae aptè intelligi potest, ipse vniuersalis Ecclesiae pastor, &c. atquè adeo dictum Augustini est, Idem ac si diceret Euangelio non crederem, nisi me [...] quinti aut alterius Pontificis moueret authoritas. saith, I would not beleeue the Gospell, did not the authoritie of Pope Paul the fift mooue me. And lastly it is one of the dictates of D Pope Hildebrand, canonised by Baronius Baron. Annal. tom. 11. Anno 1076. n. 33. Quod [...] capitulum nullus­què liber [...] habeatur, absquè illius authoritate., That no Chapter or Booke of Scripture must bee esteemed canonicall without his au­thoritie.

I doubt not but that Romists are able with faire glosses and [Page 93] distinctions to salue these blasphemies [...] Animaduers. c. Par. Disp. 1. c. 2. Thes. 7. pag. 12., and to reconcile dark A nesse with light, but he that diggeth a pit for people to fall in­to (althought he couer the same with some superficiall tecture) is accused by the antient sentence of diuine Law. Exod. 21.33.

Towards the end of this Section, the Iesuit addeth,

First, That the Scripture is not knowne to bee Apostolicall but by Tradition. This is false, for the Scripture is knowne to come from the Apostles, by inward grounds and testimonies contai­ned in it selfe, and by the vertue and effects of it, as well as by the Tradition of the Church.

Secondly, it is most vntrue, that Tradition is knowne to come B from the Apostles by it owne light, but not Scripture: for what internall light hath Tradition more than, or aboue the Scrip­ture? If it haue, then the articles of Popish Tradition, Purga­torie, adoration of Images, &c. are more manifest than the ar­ticles which Scripture teacheth concerning the incarnation and resurrection of Christ, than Heauen and Hell, &c. Also sa­cred Scripture is receiued as diuine by all Christians, Popish Tradition onely by some. The Catalogue of Romish Tra­dition could neuer to this day be specified, and distinctly as­signed [...]. Lo. com. d. Script. n. 66. Nec dum Pontificij integram farraginē Traditionum suarū enumerare vel po­tuerunt vel volue­runt (qua de re Colloq. Ratisbon) verùm quasi communem hanc topicam solum seruant, vt quicquid ex Scriptura probare non possunt, ex Tradi­tione ortum esse dicant., but the Canon of holy Scripture may. Moreouer, C holie Scripture hath the perpetuall and vnanimous consent of the Primitiue Church, Popish Tradition hath not. Againe, Bel­larmine confesseth Bellarm. d. verb. Dei, li. 1. ca. 2. At [...] is Scripturis quae Propheticis & [...] literis continentur, nihil est notius, nihil est certius., that nothing is better knowne, and more certaine than holy Scripture: but if nothing be better known, then nothing hath clearer light.

Thirdly, the confirmation of the former (to wit, What more D euident, &c.) is insufficient, because that which is known to come from the Apostles by their owne immediat testimonie in wri­ting, is more euidently knowne to come from them, than that which is affirmed to come from them, onely by the report of men which are deceiueable. Diuine testimonie maketh things more certaine and infallible than humane. The testimonie of the Apostles extant in writing is totally diuine, the report of Bishops is in part humane Lombard. sent. lib. 4. d. 18. F. Non sempèr Deus sequitur Ecclesiae iudicium, quae per surreptionem & ignorantiam interdum iudicat, Deus autèm semper iudicat secundùm veritatem. Panormitan in Decret. 5. d. sent. Excom. c. 28. Iudicium Ecclesiae aliquan­dò E [...] opinionem, quae saepè fallit & fallitur. Veritas quandoquè later Ecclesiam..

IESVIT. A

And this may bee clearely prooued, to omit other preg­nant testimonies, by the words of our Sauiour in the last of Matthew: Going into the whole world, teaching all nations, baptizing them, In the Name of the Father, and of the Sonne, and of the holy Ghost: teaching them to keepe all that I haue commanded you all dayes, euen to the con­summation of the world. A promise of wonderfull comfort B vnto them that pawne their soules and saluation vpon Gods word, deliuered by perpetuall Tradition. For in this sentence, appeare these fixe things: First, That there is still a Christian Church all dayes, not wanting in the world, so much as one day, till the consummation of the world.

ANSWER.

The place of Saint Matthew, chapter 28. 19, 20. prooueth: C First, that the holy Apostles receiued a Commission and Man­date from Christ, to preach the Gospell to all nations, both Iewes and Gentiles, and to baptise them, In the name of the Fa­ther, Sonne, and holy Ghost. Marke 16. 15, 16. Luke 24.27. Acts 1.8. Rom. 1.14.

Secondly, that our Sauiour promised his Apostles a perpe­tuall Gratia gratis data. Gratia gratum fa­ciens. Aquin. 1.2. q. 111. ar. 1. Cum gratia D ad hoc ordinetur vt homo reducatur in Deum, ordine quodam hoc agitur, vt scilicet quidam per alios in Deum reducantur. Secundum hoc igitur duplex eft gratia: vna quidem per quam ipse homo Deo coniungitur, quae vo­catur gratia gratum faciens. àlia vero per quam vnus homo cooperatur alteri, ad hoc quod ad Deum reducatur: hoc autem donum vocatur gratia gratisdata. presence, and assistance of his diuine power and grace, both in regard of the gifts of edification, Acts 2. 4. And in respect of the grace of inward sanctification, Iohn 17.17.

Thirdly, because the Apostles were mortall, and not to re­maine alwayes personally vpon earth, and other Pastors Aug. Ep. 80. & in Psal. 56. [...]. Math. c. 28. must succeed in the office of Ministerie, the promise of Christ tou­ching his spirituall presence, and assistance of grace, is extended to these successours, and when they teach and baptise in such manner as Christ commanded, diuine grace is present to their E Ministeriall actions Leo Epist. 69. Ego vobiscum sum vsque ad consum­mationē seculi: vt si quid perseruitutem, nostram, bono ordine & gratulanti impletur affectu, non ambigamus per Spiritum sanctum [...] donatum., and the holy Ghost co-worketh with them.

[Page 95] Fourthly, But yet succeeding Pastors receiued not the A same measure of diuine Grace with the Apostles [...]. cp. 19. [...]. in Ps. 86. Fundamenta [...] in montibus fan­ctis. Quos nos di­cere [...] fun­damenta? Aposto­los, in [...] erant fundamenta, &c. [...] quia [...], [...] fun­damento alius au­rum alius argentum, &c. Diligit Dominus Portas Syon super omnia Tabernacula, &c.: neyther had they immediate and Propheticall reuelation, but onely a measure of Grace, ordinarie, mediate, and in some sort con­ditionall. Also, the said Promise, Matth. 28. 20. was com­mon and equall to all the Apostles, and to the successors of one Apostle, as well as of another: to the successors of Saint Iames, and Saint Iohn, &c. as well as to the successors of Saint Peter Orig. in [...]. B tr. 1. Quod si super vnum illum Petrum tantum existimas [...] totam Ecclesiam, quid [...] es de [...], & Apostolorum vnoquoque? Alioqui num audebimus dicere, quod aduersus [...] non prae­ualiturae sint portae inferorum, aduersus caeteros autem Apostolos & praesectos [...] sint, ac non potius, in omnibus, & singulis corum, &c..

Fifthly, Notwithstanding the said promise, Bishops and Pastors succeeding the Apostles, were in respect of them­selues subiect to errors Hieron. in Psal. 86. Et principum, hoc est Apostolo­rum & Euangeli­starum horum qui fuerunt, in ea, vi­dete quid dicat, Qui fuerunt, non qui sunt, vt excep­tis Apostolis quod­cunque aliud po­steal [...], ab­scindatur, non ha­beat postea autho­ritatem. Quamuis ergo [...] sit ali­quis post Aposto­los, quamuis diser­tus non. [...] au­thoritatem, Quo­niam Domin' nar­rat in Scriptura po­pulorum, & Prin­cipum qui fuerunt in ca., and their iudgement in matters of Faith was not absolutely infallible, like the Apostles; but so farre forth onely, as they walked in the footsteps, and fol­lowed the Doctrine deliuered by the Apostles. Our Sauiour C promised, that he would be alwayes with the Apostles, euen to the consummation of the World; partly, in their personall Teaching, whiles they themselues liued in the World; and partly, in their permanent Doctrine, contained in the Scrip­tures of the New Testament Cyril. in Esaiam, lib. 2. c. 12. [...] scripta [...] (Apost.) nos [...], ac [...] & constantia fidei, & [...], pag. 103., when the same was truly deli­uered by their successors. And he will be also with succee­ding Pastors all Ages, according to such a measure of Grace and assistance, as is sufficient for the edifying of the Church, if they for their owne part Cordub. Arm. Fid. Quaest. 2. Prop. 9. Promissiones Dei generales, de co [...] ipse non solus, sed [...] & cum [...] nostris concurrendo in nobis facturus est, sub hac condi­tione sunt intelligendae, si videlicet homo faciat quod in se est, ad talem finem & effectum. be studious to learne diuine Truth from the holy Apostles, and carefull to preach the same to D others: But his promise concerning immunitie from error, and mortall offences, is not so absolute to successors, as it was to the Apostles themselues.

Sixtly, Many antient Expositors affirme, That the Promise E of Christ, Matth. 28.20. is especially made to the iust and faith­full Leo. serm. 2. c. 3. d. Resurrect. Chrys. Matth. Hom. 91. Hieron. sup. Matth. 28. Basil. Hom. 29.; and some of them say, to the Elect Druthmar. Matth. 28. Est etiam cum Reprob is [...], &c. Sed aliter est cum [...], &c. Paschas. [...]. in Matth. 28. Se cum suis elecus in [...]. onely. And Oc­cham [Page 96] affirmeth, That if there should be found in the whole World A but one Orthodox Bishop, or but one such Priest [...], Dial. p. 1. lib. 5. c. 31., and a small num­ber of Lay people Id. lib. 2. c. 25. & lib. 4. c. 9. & lib. 5. c. 3. Non est neces­sarium credere im­plicite nec expli­cite, multitudinem Christianorum non errare nec errasse in fide, nec maiorem partem: pro eo quod, fides Catholica in [...] potest seruari, pag. 451. Fides quam B. [...], praedicauir & docuit, nunquam deficiet, sed in aliquibus Chri­stianis Clericis vel Laicis, [...] vel mulieribus, vsque ad finem seculi perdurabit. 473. Quamuis maior pars, immo tota fere multitudo Cloricorum, possit contra fidem errare, & fidem Catholicam pertinaciter [...], tamen semper [...] saltim [...] Episcopus sacerdos Catholicus, qui illa quae ordinis sunt, licite valeat exercere. 502. Sicut in Idiotis (Sacerdotibus ac Religiosis & Magistratibus repudiatis) fidem primitus fundauit Catholi­cam: B Ita omnibus literatis & potentibus datis in reprobum sensum, potest dare [...] simplices illiteratos & rusticos, in aedificationem Ecclesiae Orthodoxae. 498., professing right Faith in Articles essentiall, and willing to embrace all other Diuine Vertie, when the same should be manifested vnto them, this were sufficient to make good, Christ his Promise. Matth. 28.20.

In the next passage, our Aduersarie inferreth and deri­ueth certaine Propositions from the former Text of Matth. 28. 20.

First hee saith, There is still a Christian Church all dayes, not wanting so much as one day in the World, till the consummation thereof.

I answer, That there is still in the World a common Chri­stian C Church, wherein some beleeuers hold the substance of right Faith: But there is not perpetually in the World a Church, the more potent and maior part whereof beleeueth and professeth right Faith, without error, in all points, and so infallible in all her Doctrine, as was the Primitiue Church Kling. Loc. Com. lib. 3. cap. 32. Apud viros bonos & aequos maioris authoritatis est iu­dicium illorum Scripturae qui sanctis illis Apostolis ac Martyribus viciniores [...], quorum vita & affectio erat purior & multo sanctior, quam huius populi nunc superstitis, qui certe vix rationem [...] habet ad purum Vi­num D si cum priori illo conferatur., which enioyed the immediate and actuall preaching of the Apostles.

IESVIT.

Secondly, This Church is euer visible and conspicuous: For the Church which alwayes teacheth and christeneth all Nations, to which Christ saith, I am alwayes with you, not with you sitting in corners, or hidden vnder ground, but with you, exercising the Office enioyned you in the words precedent, Docete omnes gentes, baptizantes eos, E &c.

ANSWER.

The Church is euer visible, according to some degree of [Page 97] visibilitie: but this Scripture teacheth not, that the true A Church is alwayes largely and gloriously visible. The same doth not actually in euerie Age teach and christen all Nati­ons; and the Roman Church for sundrie Ages past, teacheth and christeneth few or none within Natolia, and other large Prouinces, liuing in subiection to the Grand Seignior, or Em­perour of Constantinople. And as Christ doth not say ver­bally in this Text, I am alwayes with you, sitting in corners, so he doth not say, I am alwayes with you, when you are carryed vpon mens shoulders, and tread vpon Emperours neckes, and diuide and share the Kingdomes of the World, and gather B endlesse Riches, by selling Pardons, and preaching Pur­gatorie.

But yet of the two, it is farre more agreeable to the Diuine Goodnesse (who is a Father of the poore and oppressed) to be present to his little flocke in persecution, and when it flyeth as a Lambe from the Wolfe, and hideth it selfe from the Op­pressor, Apoc. 12. 14, than that hee hath entayled his perpe­tuall presence vpon ambitious and oppressing Tyrants, which stiled themselues Pastors, and were rauening Wolues, Scribes and Pharisees, imposing insupportable burthens vpon others, C and not moouing them with one of their owne Ioh. Sarisbur. Policrat. lib. 6. ca. 24. Romana Ec­clesia quae mater omnium Ecclesia­rum est, se non tam matrem exhi­bet quam nouer­ram. Sedent in ea Scribae & Phara­saei, ponentes one­ra importabilia, in humeris hominum: quae digito non contingunt. Dominantur in Clero, nec forma sunt [...], &c. Con­cutiunt D Ecclesias, [...] excitant, collidunt Clericos, & popularium laboribus, & miserijs afflictorum nequa­quam compatiuntur: Ecclesiarum laetantur spolijs, & quaestum reputant pietatem, iustitiam, non tam veri­tate quam pretio redimunt. Nocent saepius & eo Daemonas imitantur, tunc prodesse putantur cum no­cere desistunt. Ipse Romanus Pontifex omnibus grauis & intolerabilis est. Iacob. Almain. Quaest. Vesp. Vtinam Zelus Domus Dei, nostri temporis Praelatos comederet, & Zelarent salutem Christi fidelium plus­quam pecuniam? Ibid. Cum caput ac si esset in destructionem, sibi potestas data, & non in aedificatio­nem, in eos qui salutem corpotis intendunt saeuire videatur, & pro eo quod bene arguunt plectere paena. Sext. Decretal. c. Fundamenta. Gloss. Roma fundata a praedonibus, adhuc de primordijs retinet, dicta Roma quasi rodens manus. Roma manus rodit, quod rodere non valet odit. Auentin. Annal. Boior. lib. 4. pag. 322. Faxit Deus Opt. Max. & meliorem mentem det Pontif. nostris, vti omisso luxu fastuque diuitem Princi­pem [...], sequi desinant, fallacissimi mundi huius caduca atque fragilia bona fastidiant. Christum pauperem [...], [...] bibere, & eius crucem humeris portare, tandem discant. Ita fiet, vt vulgo male vltra non audiant, atque castigentur, quod gregem Christianum populum Dei peculiarem E compilent, [...], [...], & tanquam escam [...] denorent, adeo vt tolerabilior miseris foret con­ditio sub Imperio Turcarum. fingers. And there is no cause, why the good God, which was pre­sent with Daniel in the Lyons Denne, and with Ionas in the Whales Belly, and with Ioseph in the Dungeon, and with Iob vpon the Dunghill, should in the dayes of the oppres­sing Antichrist, withdraw his presence and assistance from his poore flocke, yea, although it were sitting in corners, and hidden vnder ground.

IESVIT. A

Thirdly, This Church is euer Apostolicall: for to his Apostles Christ said, I am alwayes with you vntill the consummation of the World; not with you in your owne persons, but with you in your successors, in whom you shall continue to the Worlds end: Ergo, a lawfull companie of Bishops, Pastors, and Doctors, succeeding the B Apostles, must be perpetually in the World.

ANSVVER.

First, The Church may be called Apostolicall, because of Faith, Plantation, and Externall Ordination of Pastors.

According to Faith and Doctrine, in all the maine and sub­stantiall Articles, the true Church is euer Apostolicall.

In regard of Plantation, the Primitiue Church was Apo­stolicall, C because it was immediately planted and watered by the holy Apostles. But Tertullian affirmeth, That many par­ticular Tertullian. d. Prae­script. Ca. 32. Ad [...] pro­uocabuntur ab illis Ecclesijs, quae licet nullum ex Aposto­lis, vel Apostolicis authorem suum proferant, vt multo posteriores, quae denique quotidie instituuntur: tamen in [...] fide conspirantes, non minus Apostolicae deputantur pro consanguinitate doctrinae. Churches were not thus planted by Apostles, or A­postolicall persons, and yet they were truly Apostolicall, by reason of consanguinitie of Doctrine with the holy Apostles.

According to the third manner, to wit, in respect of Exter­nall D Ordination, and Imposition of Hands, receiued from Bishops, lineally succeeding the Apostles, a false and corrupt Church may be Apostolicall (as I haue formerly prooued.) And it is not impossible for a true Church to succeed or come out of a false, or for a corrupt Church to reforme it selfe. And if this happen, there is required no new Ordination of Pastors, [...] any Miracles, to confirme their Vocation; but they which [...] ordained in a corrupt Church, returning to the right Faith and worship of God, make their former Ordination more legitimate, holy, and effectuall. E

The Iesuit in the words ensuing, collecteth from our Saui­ours promise, I will be with you, &c. that there must euer bee a companie of Bishops and Pastours, succeeding the Apostles, because Christ said to them and their successours, I will bee with [Page 99] you, &c. But if this collection be good, then euerie one of the A Apostles must haue Bishops, Pastours, and Doctours, succee­ding them in right faith, to the end of the world, for Christ spake to them all in generall, and also distributiuely to euerie of them, &c. But the Papals themselues at this day, exclude all the successours of other Apostles, excepting Saint Peter. Nei­ther yet doth our Sauiour limit his presence and assistance to generall Councels, or definitiue sentences of Popes, but hee speaketh of Preaching and Baptising: and therefore if his pre­sence with Pastours and Bishops, doe free them from all errour, it must free them in Preaching and writing Bookes, as well as B sitting in Councell. Also they to whom Christ is alwayes pre­sent, are not of infallible iudgement, or free from errour in all matters, but onely from damnable and malicious errour, as ap­peareth by Saint Cyprian, Saint Augustine, and all the elect of God.

Wherefore this promise, in regard of the perfection there­of, did appertaine to the Apostles themselues: and in regard of the veritie of it, and for such a measure of assistance as is neces­sarie to constitute a number of faithfull people, more or lesse, in euery age to serue Christ truely, in the substance of faith C and pietie, it is fulfilled alwayes, euen to the end of the world.

But because our Aduersaries insist so much vpon this Text, to raise their visible and personall succession; I will reduce the Argument which they draw out of it, into forme, and then accommodate mine Answere.

First, if the consequence of this Argument were good, then all and euerie one of the Apostles must continue allwayes, to the consummation of the world, in Bishops, Pastours, and Doctours, lineally succeeding them, which Papals themselues denie [...]. d. Ec­clesia l. 4. c. 8. Om­nes Ecclesiae Patriarchales, habuerunt per longa tempora Episcopos manifeste Haereticos, & proindè interupta E est [...] successio. [...]. Princip. Doctr. l. 4. c. 18..

Secondly, lineall and personall succession, is not the sole meanes, by which the Apostles, after their decease, remaine in the world; but they remaine also in the world by their Scrip­tures, [Page 100] and also by the faith of Beleeuers, receiuing and obeying A their doctrine [...]. Com. Math. 28.20. Ex hoc intelligitur quod vsque ad finem seculi, non sunt [...] in mundo qui diuina mansione & in habitatione sunt digni. Chrys. in Math. [...]. [...]. De functi quoque multum valent prodesse hijs, qui eorum imperio paruerint. Bell. d. [...]. Beat. li. 1. c. 6. B. Paulus adhuc bene operatur, exemplo & Scriptis..

Thirdly, that which is promised vpon condition, is not ab­solute, vntill the condition be fulfilled. The presence of Christ is promised to the Apostles successours conditionally, Orig. in Math. Hom. 1. Quoniam qui Episcoporum locum sibi vendi­cant vtuntur eo di­cto sicut Petrus, & Claues regni caelo­rum à saluatore ac­ceperunt, docent (que) ea, quae ab illis li­gata fuerint, hoc est cōdemnata ea­dem, & in caelis ligata, rurfus ea quae soluta fuerint ab ipsis, eadem & in caelis esse soluta, dicendum est illos rectè loqui, si pariter & facta habuerint ob quae dictum est illi qui erat Petrus, tu es Petrus: sique tales fuerint, vt à Christo super eos aedificetur Ecclesia, & ad eos illud iure referri possit. Nichol. Clemang. Disp. [...]. mater. Concil. General. Illis adest spiritus, illos dirigit, atque ad finem ducit salutarem, qui dignum in se hospitium illi paraue­runt, seque eius aspiratione arque visitatione (quantum in eis erat) per bona opera dignos fecerunt. Illos au­tem quomodo audiat, aut vifiter aut illustrer, qui sibi aduersantur, illumque cum in se non possident, in alijs extin­guere C nituntur, qui pro igne charitatis, ardore sunt ambitionis inflammati. and as they were one with the Apostles by imitation, and subordina­tion: that is, so farre as they walked in their steps, and confor­med their Doctrine and Ministerie to the patterne receiued B from them. But successours did not alwayes performe this condition: neither did the promise inable them to doe it, with­out their owne care and indeuour, which was contingent and separable, and therefore many times deficient.

Fourthly, Christs presence alwayes to the consummation of the world, with some Bishops, Pastours, and Doctours, li­neally succeeding the Apostles, prooueth not that these Bi­shops and Pastours, cannot erre in any part of their Doctrine; for then no particular Bishops, hauing Apostolicall ordination, could fall into any errour: but it sheweth onely, that Christ co-operates with them, in such Ministeriall duties and acti­ons as they performe according to his Ordinance: And when D they preach his Doctrine, and administer his Sacraments, hee himselfe will adde vertue and grace to their actions, being duly performed Greg. [...]. Catech. cap. 33. In spirituali modo regenerationis promisit se ad futurum his quae facta sunt, & imprimit operi [...] suam, volun­tate nostra accedente ad id quod intenditur. Atque id quod dixit Christus, inprimis videtur referendum esse, ad [...] suam in [...] & [...] operibus, in quibus quod cernitur corruptibile est, quod latet [...]..

IESVIT.

Fourthly, this Church is vniuersall, [...] in mun­dum E vniuersum, Marc. 16. 15. where I will be alwayes with you.

ANSWER. A

The true Church is vniuersall, according to the manner for­merly declared. But the Argument taken out of Saint Marke 16.15. prooueth not, that it is euer actually vniuersall, in re­spect of place, and multitude of professours. For as it follow­eth not, that because Christ said he would be with Saint Paul when he preached at Corinth, ( Act. 18.10.) therefore he will be euer at Corinth: So likewise it is inconsequent to inferre, Christ said he would be present in all places of the world with the Apostles, when they baptised and preached as he comman­ded B them: Ergo, he will alwayes be present in those places, al­though their successours neglect his commandement. Is God euer in the dungeon in Egypt, because he was euer there, whilst Ioseph, a iust person, continued in prison. The promise of spi­rituall presence, is annexed to the worke of Preaching and Bap­tising, wheresoeuer it is performed, according to the Diuine Ordinance: but that which in some ages, hath beene done in many places, may at other times be performed in few.

IESVIT. C

Fiftly, the Church is one, not diuided into parts, because it teacheth and beleeueth vniformely, all that Christ deliuered and commanded, without factions, Sects or parts, about matters of faith.

ANSWER.

It is not affirmed, neither can it be concluded out of Mat. 28. that the visible Church in all ages of the world, teacheth and beleeueth, either vniformely, Cusan. Concord. Cath. l. 1. c. 5. Licet fides vna sit funi­culus [...], tamen aliquando varietas opinionū absque pertinacia, stat, cum vnitate. or expresly and distinctly, all D that Christ deliuered or commanded: and in the same Chur­ches which were planted by the Apostles, there was discord, among infirme Christians, 1. Cor. 1.11.

IESVIT.

Sixtly, this Church is alwayes holy for doctrine, neuer de­liuering or teaching any falshood: I who am the truth, am alwayes with you, teaching all nations. Holy also for life, Christ the Holy of Holies, assisting and making her able to E conuert Infidels, which it could not well doe, without signes and tokens of wonderfull sanctitie, at the least, in her more eminent Preachers.

ANSVVER. A

Although the true Church is alwaies holy for Doctrine, yet it is not perfectly and in the highest degree euer so [...]. Relect. c. 1. quaest. 4. ar. 5. notab. 1. Est quo (que) & vocatur interdū vera Ecclesia prop­ter ipsam doctrinae perfectissimam pu­ritatem & Sacra­mentorū vsum re­ligiosissimum. Quae sanè perfectio non est omnium tem­porum & locorum: quia & iuxtà Ca­tholicum intellectū de quibusdam do­ctrinae partibus du­bitari interdùm po­test, & a magnis vi­ris erratum est, ma­nente etiàm penes tales vera Ecclesia.. And it is most inconsequent to argue, Christ which is the Truth is euer with the Church, Ergo the Church cannot erre or teach any falshood, for Christ is alwaies with the faithfull, Ephes. 3. 17. yet iust and faithfull people may erre. Because Christ was with the Apostles by miraculous inspiration, therefore they could not erre, or deliuer any falshood great or small, but he is present with the sounder part of the Church militant since B the Apostles by ordinarie grace and assistance, which freeth the same from damnable and malicious errour, but not from all er­rour. And this assistance of Grace is greater or lesse, according to the good pleasure of Christ, and the disposition of his people Chrys. Serm. 20. sup. Rom. Tametsi enim gratia sit & ipsa, non tamen simplicitèr ef­funditur sed mensuram à recipientibus se accipiens, [...] quantum inuenerit sibi oblatum fidei C vasculum., which are compassed about with ignorance and in­firmitie, and at some times better or worse qualified than at other.

Also the true Church, in firmissimis suis, in her firmest mem­bers, is [...] holy for life, because the Holy of Holiest sancti­fieth and purgeth the same by his Word, Sacraments, and Grace, Eph. 5.26. Tit. 3.5, 6. But it is not absolute in holinesse, Iam. 3.2. 1. Ioh. 1.8. Bernard. in Psalm. Qui. hab. Serm. 10. Nisi esset hic, quaedam vt ita [...] &c. nor yet in euery age so remarkeably ho­ly, that it is thereby able to conuert Infidels [...] sunt Christiani &c. Maior continentia inuenitur apud il­los qui sūt in Schis­mate. Id. 1. Cor. ho. 36. Cyprian. d. Laps. n. [...]. [...]. d. [...]. Dei lib. 3. Ipsa Dei Ecclesia quae in omnibus debet esse placatrix Dei, quid est aliud, [...] quid est aliud pene omnis coetus [...], quam sentina vitiorum?. And the true Church hath not in all ages the gift of Miracles Chrys. Imp. Math. Hom. 49. Nunc autem E signorum operatio [...] sunt Christiani. Greg. Mor. lib. 34. ca. 3. A sancta Ecclesia [...]., and the pretext of Miracles is common to deceiuers, Math. 24.24, 25. 2. Thessal. 2.9. Apoc. 13.13. And Suares Suar. Def. Fid. Cath. lib. 1. ca. 7. [...] cap. 44. [...] de authoritate [...] do­ctoris haeretici, illos [...] &c. quasi nec hoc scriptum sit, venturos multos, qui [...] virtutes maximas aederent, ad fallaciam muniendam corruptae praedicationis, &c. the Iesuit saith, D Haec adulterari possunt, & ita exterius fingi vt non sint necessaria signa verae Fidei, Miracles may so be adulterated and external­ly feigned, that they may not be necessarie signes of Faith. And Canus [...] loc. lib. 11. ca. 6. speaking of Popish miracles and legends, saith, Nostri pleriquè de industria, ita multa [...] vt eorum me pudeat & tae­deat, sundrie of our men do so wilfully coine many things (in their report of Miracles) that I am ashamed and irked of them.

IESVIT. A

That the Roman is the One, Holy, Catholicke, Apostolicall Church, from and by which we are to receiue the Tradition of Christian Doctrine.

These grounds being laid, it is apparant that the Ro­man Church (that is, the multitude of Christians spread ouer the world, cleauing to the Doctrine and Tradition of B the Church of Rome) is the One, Holy, Catholicke, and Apo­stolicall Church.

ANSVVER.

The former grounds (according to your deliuerie, and expo­sition of them) are partly false, and partly ambiguous and cap­tious, and therefore it cannot be made apparant from them, That the moderne Roman Church, is the One, Holy, Catholicke, and Apo­stolicall C Church, from which we are absolutely to receiue the whole Tradition of Christian Doctrine.

IESVITS 1. Argument.

There mnst be alwaies in the world One, Holy, Catho­licke, and Apostolicall Church, that is, a Church deliuering Doctrine vniformely, therby making them credible: Vni­uersally, thereby making them famously knowne to man­kind: Holily, so making them certain, and such as on them D we may securely rely: Apostolically, so making them perpe­tually flow without change vnto the present Christianitie in the Channell of neuer interrupted succession of Bishops from the Apostles. And this Church must either be the Ro­man, or the Protestants, or some other opposit to both. Pro­testants cannot say, a Church opposite to both, for then they should be condemned in their owne judgement, and bound to conforme themselues to that Church; which can be no E other but the Graecian, a Church holding as many or more Doctrines, which Protestants dislike, than doth the Church of Rome, as J can demonstrate if need be.

ANSVVER. A

There must be alwaies in the world a Church, One, Holy, Catholicke, and Apostolicall, that is, A number of Christians belee­uing and [...], & professing Christianitie; to the sounder part wher­of the properties of One, Holy, Catholicke, Apostolicall, belong. But there is not alwaies in the world an Hierarchiall visible Church, consisting of Prelates and people, vnited in one externall forme of Policie, and profession of Religion, vnder an vniuersall Pope, B to which alone, these foure titles are proper, or principally be­longing. And there may bee an Orthodoxall Apostolicall Church consisting of a small number of inferiour Pastors, and right beleeuing Christians, opposed and persecuted by the Hierarchiall part of the visible Church: euen as in the raigne of king Manasses, and other idolatrous kings of Iuda Occham. Dial. part. 1. lib. 5. cap. 5. Quod autèm Sa­cerdotes summi ve­teris legis, & etiam Iudices principales poterant contrà le­gem iubere, & [...] C [...] veritatem errare, constat ex hoc, quod plures eorum à veritate iudicij & fidei [...], ficut per plura exempla posset ostendi, quod plures summi Pontifices, Sacerdotes, circa tempora Machabeorum legem Domini reliquerunt. Vrias etiàm Sacerdos obediens Regi Achaz, contra legem erexit altare, sicut habetur 4. Reg. 16. Summi etiàm Sacerdotes tempore Christi in multis contrà legem errauerunt. Iudices etiàm Hebreorum nonnulli post Iosue, contrà legem egerunt, & omnes Reges praetèr Dauid, Ezechiam, & Iosiam idololarriam com­miserunt. Quarè & summi Sacerdotes & Iudices in vetere lege contra legem potuerunt iubere., when Idolatrie preuailed among the Priests and generall multitude, there was a remnant of holy people, worshipping God accor­ding to his word, and not defiled with the impietie of those times.

Now concerning the disiunctiue part of the Iesuits Argu­ment, which is, This Church must either be the Roman, or the Pro­testants, or some other opposite to both. It is answered: The Prote­stant Church, is that true and Orthodoxall Church, which is One, Holy, Apostolicke, and a sound part of the Catholicke. D For although the same may be supposed, to haue had beginning in Luthers age, yet this is vntrue, concerning the essence, and kind, and is true onely touching the name, and some things ac­cidentall. For in all ages, and before Luther, some persons held the substantiall articles of our Religion, both in the Roman and Graecian Church. And by name, the Graecians maintained these articles in common with vs, That the Roman Church hath not primacie of Iurisdiction, Authoritie, and Grace aboue or ouer all other Churches: neither is the same infallible in her definitions of Faith. They denie Purgatorie, priuate E Masses, Sacrifice for the dead, and they propugne the mariage of Priests.

In this Westerne part of the world, the Waldenses, Tabo­rites of Bohemia, the Scholers of Wiclife, called in England [Page 105] Lollards, maintained the same doctrine in substance, with the A moderne Protestants, as appeareth by the confession of their Faith Consess. Tabor c. Rokensan, Anno Dom. 1431. Et qui merindoli, Agriae, Costae, &c. Habita­bant ediderunt cōfessionem suā, &c. in qua continentur hij articuli: 1. [...] credendum esse in cis quae ad salutem [...], &c. 2. Sacras literas integrè continere omnia, &c. 3. [...] tantùm esse [...] nec invocandos Sanctos, &c. 4. Purgatorium nullum esse, &c. 5. [...] B esse [...]. 6. Missas quae pro mortuis canuntur impias esse, &c. 7. Traditiones humanas pro neces­sarijs ad [...] habendas non esse. 8. Ieiunia in ciborum discrimine, monochatum Papisticum, Benedictiones creaturarum, &c. perigrinationes, &c. esse humanum inuentum. 9. Primatum Papae super omnes Ecclesias re­ijciunt. 10. Rom. Ecclesiam esse Babilonem in Apocalipsi. 11. Communionem in [...] specie, &c. 12. [...] Papales [...]. 13. Coniugium Sacerdotum esse sanctum, &c., and by the testimonie of some learned Pontificians [...] Hist. li. 5. pa. 460. Tamen ex­titere sempèr per interualla qui eorum doctrinam intermortuam renouarent, Ioh. Wiclevus in Anglia, Ioh. Hus & Hier. Pragensis: nostra verò aetate postquam Lutheri doctrina, obuio tam multorum fauore accepta est, reli­quiae eorum vbiquè sparsae colligi, & crescente Lutheri nomine vires & authoritatem sumere caeperunt, &c. [...], Hist. [...]. lib. 3. & li. 12. Guicciard. Hist. [...]. lib. 13. Anno Dom. 1520. Ex Martini Lutheri, &c. maxima ex parte veteris Bohemorum sectae, quae, &c. diu intrà Bohemiae fines inclusa fuerat, excitatoris, originem habuit.. And concerning certaine differences obiected to haue beene betweene them and vs, we shall afterward shew, that the same are no greater, than such as haue beene antiently among the Fathers, and there are as great differences betweene the Elder and moderne Romists in many passages of their doctrine.

But now on the contrarie, if it were so that we could not (for certaine ages past) nominate or assigne out of historie any C other visible Church besides the Roman or Grecian: yet be­cause right Faith may be preserued in persons liuing in a cor­rupt visible Church, as Wheat among Tares, 1. King. 19. 11. and because God hath promised there shall be alwaies in the world a true Church (hauing either a larger or smaller number of professors;) if Protestants be able to demonstrate that they maintaine the same Faith [...]. d. pre­script. c. Haer. ca. 32. In eadem fide con­spirantes, &c. Apo­stolicae deputantur pro consanguinitate doctrinae. Jb. ca. 37. Veritas nobis adiudicetur, quicunquè in ea regula D incedimus, quam Ecclesia ab Apostolis, [...] à Christo, Christus à Deotradidit. and Religion which the holy Apostles taught, this alone is sufficient to prooue they are the true Church.

IESVIT.

It is also most manifest and vndeniable, that Prote­stants are not such a Church, nor part of such a Church, since their reuoult and separation from the Roman; seeing confessedly they changed their Doctrines they once held, for­sooke E the bodie whereof they were members, broke off from the stocke of that tree whereof they were branches. Nei­ther did they (departing from the Roman) ioine themselues with any other Church professing their particular doctrines, [Page 106] dissonant from it: Ergo, The Romane is the one, holy, Ca­tholicke A and Apostolicall Church, &c.

ANSVVER.

Bold words, ( It is most manifest and vndenyable) miserable proofes (they changed their Doctrine they once held, &c.) If the Pharisees had argued in this manner against Saint Paul, or the Manichees and Pelagians Aug. d. prae dest. sanctor. c. 3. Quem meum [...] opuscula mea satis indicant scrip­ta ante [...] meum. against Saint Augustine, the one would haue told them, That it was no fault to forsake the B leauen of Traditions, to imbrace the Doctrine of the Gospell confirmed by the Prophets; and the other would haue plea­ded most iustly, That it is a vertue and honour, to forsake errour, and to imbrace veritie. Gods people are comman­ded, vpon a grieuous penaltie, to depart out of Babylon and spirituall Sodome, Apoc. 18.4. and Chap. 11.8. Saint Paul, speaking of such as teach diuerse doctrine from the Apostles, saith, [...], Depart from such, from their as­sembly and Church: Reade Acts 19. 8. 1. Corinth. 10. 14. 2. Cor. 6. 14, 15, 17. Hos. 10. 17. The Roman Church, in C those things wherein wee departed from it, was shamefully corrupted; it did not onely forsake, bur depraue and perse­cute the truth of God: the leprosie thereof was incurable, for it would not iudge it selfe, nor bee reprooued by others, nor reforme the least errour, but desperately followed the Ca­non, Si Papa, &c 40. Si Papa suae & fraternae salutis negligens [...], inutilis & remissus in operibus, & insuper à bono taciturnus, quod magis officit sibi & omnibus, nihilominus innumera­biles populos cateruatim secum ducit ad Gehennam cum ipso plagis multis in aeternum vapulatures: huius cul­pas istic redargurere praesumat mortalium nullus, quia cunctos [...] iudicaturus, à nemine est iudicandus.. And none might inioy life and breath within her Precincts, which would not obey her Traditions Tho. D Waldens. Doctrinal. Prefat. ad Martin. 5. Statutum publicum emanauit, quod omnes [...], sicut Dei proditores essent, sic proditores Regis proscriptis bonis censerentur, & regni, duplici poenae dandi, incendio propter Deum, suspendio propter regem..

These Romuleans (vnlesse they were blinded like Elymas) could not be ignorant, at least, of some of their errours and cor­ruptions: but they chose rather in their Tridentine Synode, to proclaime and propugne, apertly or couertly, all their an­tient forgeries, than to compassionate the distressed and [...] Christian world, by mittigating or condescending, ac­cording E to truth, in the smallest matters. It had beene most fa­cile for them, without any preiudice or dammage to them­selues, to haue permitted the Communion of the holy Eucha­rist, in both kindes; the publicke [...] of God in a knowne [Page 107] and vnderstood Language [...] Syluius Hist. Bohem. c. 13-Quum Episcopus qui Slauos [...] ad [...] octauo, sup­plicaret, vt illis sua Lingua in Sacris, vti liceret &c. Au­dita est Vox de Coelo, omnis spi­ritus laudet Domi­num & omnis vox confiteatur ei., to haue abolished the adoration A of Images, &c. But their Luciferian pride and mallice was so transcendent, that they rather presumed to obtrude new Scan­dalls vpon the Christian World, than to vse the least Mode­ration, for the peace of the Church. And euer since that Sy­nod, they haue proceeded from euill to worse, obscuring and out-facing the Truth with Forgerie and Sophistrie: They haue conspired against Kingdomes, and States; they haue surpassed professed Infidels, in perfidious Stratagemes, and immane Crueltie The Massacre of Paris. [...]. Hist. lib. 52. & lib. 53. Nullum similis [...] exemplum, in tota antiquitate reperiri. Natal. Comes. Histor. lib. 25. pa. 508. [...] sexaginta mil­lia hominum, va­rijs in locis per illud tempus, trucidata fuisse dicta sunt in Gallia, &c.. Lastly, whereas they expelled vs by Excommunication, and chased vs away from them by B Persecution; yet this Romane Aduocate taxeth vs of Schisme, and Apostasie, neuer remembring what S. Augu­stine long since deliuered: The Sacriledge of Schisme is then committed, when there is no iust cause of separation August. c. Donat. lib. 5. cap. 1. Apertissi­mum C Sacrilegium Schismatis eminet, si nulla fuit causa separationis.: Or what some of his owne part haue said Dried. d. Eccles. Dogm. lib. 4. cap. 4. Neque tenentur Oues sub esse Pastori vlli qui iam factus est, aut ex. Pastore Lupus, aut saluti gregis contrarius. Francisc. Picus, Mirand. Theor. 23. Capitis autem male sani & deliri contagia vitanda sunt, ne & ipsi artus pestilenti humore tabefierent., The Sheepe are not bound to be subiect to any Shepheard, which is become a Wolfe, or is aduerse to the saluation of the Flocke.

IESVIT.

Which also plainely will appeare to any man of vn­derstanding, that casts vpon her an impartiall eye: For is she not conspicuously one, the professors thereof agreeing D in all points of Faith, howsoeuer they differ about small vndefined Questions.

ANSVVER.

Externall Vnitie is found amongst Infidels: and the Turkes, being more in number than Papists, neuer disagree amongst themselues, touching matters of their Religion: Shall wee then say as the Iesuit doth, It will plainely ap­peare E to any man of vnderstanding, that casts his eye vpon Turkie, that the same hath Veritie, because it is conspi­cuously one?

Saint Augustine saith, That Iewes, Heretikes, and Infidels ob­serue [Page 108] Vnitie against Vnitie [...]. d. verb. [...] [...] & Pa­gani, [...] fe­cerunt, contra [...].. S. Bernard Bernard. As­sump. Mariae, Serm. 5. Sciendum, quod alia est vnitas san­ctorum, quam ex Scripturis commendauimus: Alia est facinorosorum, quae nihilominus ex ipsis Scriptui is, [...] & impro­batur. Psal. 2. 2. Matth. 22. 15., Alia est vnitas A Sanctorum, alia facinorosorum; The Vnitie of Saints is one thing, and the Vnitie of wicked men (Deceiuers) another. S. Hilarie Hilar. lib. ad Constant. Per speciosum nomen pacis, in vnitatem per fidiae subrepimus, &c. pag. 28., Vnitas fidei, & vnitas perfidiae; There is Vnitie of Faith, and there is likewise perfidious and faithlesse Vnitie. S. Gregorie saith Gregor. Moral. lib. 33. cap. 24. B, That the ministers of Antichrist shall cleaue to­gether like the skales of Leuiathan.

Therefore, because externall Vnitie is in it selfe a thing common, and Iewes and Mahometists enioy the same more apparently than many Christians; our Aduersarie must prooue that his Church hath Veritie, before his argument taken from externall Vnitie, can be of any force.

Neither is Papisticall Vnitie so entire and absolute, as this man gloryeth: for Papalls disagree both in Doctrine and Manners. They differ concerning the supreame Authoritie of the Church, Whether it be in the Pope, or in the Ge­nerall C Councell Francisc. Picus. Theorem. 16. Fu­ere qui dicerent, Concilium in cau­sa fidei prae esse Pontifici, fuere qui Pontificem Conci­lio praeponerent: & circa ipsius Sy­nodi collectionem, alia etiam quaestio, vtrum sine Ponti­fice, vtrum eo re­fragante conuocari colligique possit.. They differ in the matter of Free­will, and Grace: They differ concerning the manner of the Conception of the Virgin Marie. There are three Opinions among them, concerning the Temporall dominion of Popes: Some say, he hath direct Temporall power Aluares Pelag. d. Planct. Eccles. lib. 1. ar. 13. August. Anchona Summa, d. Eccles. Pot. qu. 36. art. 2. Carerius, Francisc. Bosius, & alij.; some say, indirect [...]. d. Pontif. Rom. lib. 5. cap. 6. & 7. Aquinas 22. q. 12.; some say hee hath none Hugo Victor. d. Sacrament. lib. 2. par. 2. cap. 7. [...] Patauin. Occham, &c. Ferus, in Matth. cap. 16. Bernard. d. Consid. ad Eugen. lib. 1., but by the free Donation of Princes; and, that Princes were euill aduised, in yeelding him so much Petrus, d. Ferrar. E Singui. Pract. Form. Resp. Rei. Conuent. fol. 45. Male ergo & pessime faciunt Imperatores sustinere quod habeant merum & mixtum Imperium, quia Dominus dixit Petro, conuerte gladium in locum suum, pro­hibens sibi expresse, quod de his se non intromitteret.. And moderne Popes dis­agree with the antient, concerning the Dignitie of vniuer­fall Bishop, adoration of Images, Transubstantiation, Com­munion D in both kinds, and the merit of Good workes. Also, they themselues complaine of grieuous hatred and discord, reigning generally among them; and some of them say, There is greater Concord among Gentiles Ferus, Postil. Serm. 3. d. Coen. Domin. In omnibus gentibus maior nunc est concordia quam inter Christianos.. And when they colour these palpable Dissentions, pretending, that they are readie to submit themselues to the iudge­ment of the Pope: First, this Iudge and Vmpire is many [Page 109] times a Peace-breaker Azor. Instit. Mor. tom. 2. lib. 5. cap. 43. Iohannes Decimus, Leo No­nus, Innocentius Se­cundus, Gregorius Sextus, Iulius Se­cundus, Vrbanus Quartus, ex Sabel­lic. & Bergom., and no Peace-maker Aluar. d. planct. Eccles. Lib. 2. art. 5. Nec sunt hodie Praelati, Principes pacis, sicut Chri­stus, Esay 9. sed Guerrae. Sigebert. Anno 1085. Matth. Paris. Chronic. Greg. Papa, confessus est suadente Diabolo se iram & odium inter huma­num genus concitasse. Otho Frising. Chron. lib. 6. cap. 33. Quos dum Leo Papa, cum militia ad vrbem rediens Ecclesiae & Imperij finibus arcere vult, Tanta strages facta fuit, quod acerus ex ossibus mortuorum compactus hactenus ab indiginis illic monstratur. Ibid. cap. 36. Quanta mala quot bella, bellorumque discrimina vnde secuta sunt, quoties misera Roma obsessa, capta vastata, quod Papa super Papam sicut Rex super Regem positus fuerit tedet memorare. Auentin. Annal. Boiorum, lib. 6. pag. 480. per triginta tres annos à Gregorio & Vrbano con­tinenter sanguine, [...] belligeratum est. Nauclerus ex Hermanno. Guelphorum & Gibellinorum factiones, &c. quae deinceps a Gregorio 9. nutritae, adeo late serpsere vt nulla ciuitas nullum oppidum, nullus populus, ea tabe perniciosissima intactus remanserit, vrbs enim in vibem, Prouincia in Prouinciam, haec populi pars in al­teram, nulla impellente alia quam harum partium causa, vsque ad haec nostra tempora miro [...] inter se sae­uiere. Abbas Vsperg. in Philip. Imper. Tunc coeperunt multiplicari mala in terris. Ortae sunt siquidem in C hominibus, simultates doli perfidiae vt se inuicem tradant in mortem & interitum, Rapina deprae dationes, depo­pulationes terrarum vastationes incendia, seditiones bella & rapinae siue in stratis siue in latrocinijs iustificatae sunt, vt omnis homo iam sit periurus, & praedictis facinoribus implicatus, vt vix excusari possit, quin sit in [...] ficut populus sic Sacerdos, tribulatio magna prohibuit hoc, vt nec quis de villa sua possit procedere secure [...] in proximam villam., an Ismael in A the Christian World, whose hand is against euerie man, and euerie mans hand is against him. Secondly, Vnitie which is founded on blind Obedience, is onely an Vnitie of Pollicie, and not of true Faith. Thirdly, this submission maketh not actuall Concord: and miserable Dissention, both intestine and forraine, at home and abroad, rageth betweene Popes and Princes, and betweene one Popish Faction and another. The Guelphes and Gibellines, the Papalls and Imperialls, are as famous in Histories for their Discord, as the sonnes of Cadmus; and when Papistrie was most potent, the Chri­stian B World was most distracted.

IESVIT.

Apparently vniuersall, so spread ouer the World, with Credit and Authoritie, that whole Mankind may take suf­ficient notice of her, and her Doctrine, for the embra­cing D thereof.

ANSWER.

The Roman is a particular Church, and not vniuersall: it is onely an vnsound member of the whole, and not the whole. Rom. 1. 6. S. Paul saith: [...] Chrys. ad Rom. Hom. 1. Romanis scribens qui velut in quodam totius Orbis, vertice constituti erant, nihil prae reliquis gentibus illis praecipui ad­scribit. Neque enim ideo quod tum potentes erant & regnabant plus [...] spiritualium eos habere dicit: sed quemadmodum inquit omnibus gentibus praedicamus ita & vobis, connumerans [...] & Scythis, ac Thracibus, nisi enim hoc significare voluisset superfluum erat dicere in quibus estis & vos. Theodoret. sup. Rom. cap. 1. Eos, non E vt qui totius Orbis terrarum Dominium obtinerent, ab alijs gentibus secreuit, sed alijs commiscuit. Theophilact. ibid. Hic tollit eorum cogitationem de Primatu. Non enim inquit alias antecellitis gentes, [...] Imperium vo­bis vsurpetis: verum enim perinde ac caeteris, sic vobis praedicamus, ne igitur turgeatis fastu. Oecumen. ibid. [...]., Among whom, are yee also. [Page 110] But a Church which is but one amongst the rest, cannot be the A whole and vniuersall Church. It is as absurd to say, that the Romane Church is the vniuersall Church, as to affirme that England is the vniuersall World.

If the vniuersall Church be taken properly, or absolute­ly, it comprehendeth both the Triumphant and Militant Church: Augustine Enchir. cap. 56. and 61. Couaruuias, Resol. Lib. 4. cap. 14. If it be taken restrictiuely, it is the whole Church Militant of each Age. If Catholike be taken for that which is Orthodoxall in Faith, and which holdeth no diuision with the common Bodie of Christianitie (accor­ding B to which notion, the Fathers tearme particular Chur­ches Catholike Cyprian. Epist. 64. & Epist. 69. & Epist. 73. Constan­tius, ap. Socrat. Hist. Eccles. Lib. 1. cap. 6. & Lib. 2. cap. 2. Greg. Naz. in Testam. apud Brisson. d. form. Lib. 7. Vincent. Lyr. contr. Haer. cap. 25.) then neyther is this Title proper to the Romane Church alone, neyther can Papists iustly assume the name of Catholike, vntill they haue proued their Faith to be Orthodoxall, and iustified themselues from being the Authors of Discord in the Christian World.

And to answere that which followeth; although the Ro­mane Church is spread ouer sundrie parts of the World, C because some people professing the Romane Faith, trauaile or reside in many Countreyes, and exercise their Religion where they trauaile, or liue; yet this will not demonstrate, that it is the Church vniuersall: For both the Iewes, and also sundrie Christians The Syrians, or Melchites, Geor­gians, Russians, Nestorians, Christi­ans of S. Thomas in India, Iacobites, Copthi, Habas­sines, Armenians, Maronites., which are no Romists, are largely diffused ouer the World, and exercise their Religion in pla­ces where they make their abode; and there is nothing more presumptuous, than to make externall Fame and Ampli­tude Greg. Nazian. Orat. d. Seipso, c. Arrian. Vbi illi sunt, qui Ecclesiam multitudine definiunt. Chrysost. ad Pop. Antioch. Hom. 40. August. sup. Psal. 39. (which are things common, and separable) proper notes of a true Church; and vpon this ground, to reiect D and censure smaller Churches, which haue lesse fame in the World, but more Veritie.

IESVIT.

Most manifestly Holy, in all kind of high extraor­dinarie E Sanctitie, giuing notorious signes and tokens thereof, striking admiration into carnall men, that are not altogether prophane, and diffusing abroad, among [Page 111] Infidels, the sweete Odour of Christ, and the Christi­an A Name.

ANSWER.

Passing by your boasting of Manifestly Holy, in all kind of high and extraordinarie Holinesse, notorious, striking admiration, &c. And putting you in mind of Solomons Prouerbe: There is a man that boasteth himselfe to be rich, and yet hath nothing: Prou. 13. 7.

I answere the matter, first, You must be aduertised that Gre­gory, B Moral. l. 33. c. 26. saith, Praedicatores Antichristi sanctitatis sibi speciem arrogant, sed tamen opera iniquitatis exercent: Anti­christs Preachers arrogate vnto themselues a shew of holinesse, and practise the workes of iniquitie. This will be verified in such as you are, if your forme of externall holinesse bee not conioyned with holy and Orthodoxall Doctrine. You must therefore first of all prooue your doctrine to be Orthodoxall, in the Articles in question betweene the reformed Churches and you, before your miracles and specious holinesse can stand C you in any stead: And there is no kind of externall holinesse, which heretickes haue not pretended, and practised in shew be­fore men.

Secondly, your owne friends and followers testifie, That your Church hath beene for many ages, notoriously defiled with the enormitie of vices: Some of them say Gerson. to. 4. [...]. Brugis scripta. p. 51. in generall tearmes, that from the crowne of the head to the sole of the foot, the vlcerous matter of enormous sinne, hath defiled and deformed the whole body and state of Christianitie, liuing vnder your profession. Others affirme, that all Ecclesiasticall Concil. Basil. Resp. Synodal. p. 139. Surius. and Christian discipline, was in a man­ner D extinguished in euery place. Others say, that oppression, Concil. Lateran. sub Iulio 2. Oratio [...]. Surius tom. 4. pag. 520. Ita in sanctam nauiculam impetum facere vt penè [...] flu­ctibus illa latus de­derit, & prope mer­ia & pessundata [...] rapine, adulterie, incest, and all pestilent vice, did confound all sacred and pro­phane things, and that the same beat S. Peters ship so impetuously, that it began to hull or wallow vpon the to-side. Others, [...] in Mar­cellino primo. that vices were so exalted and multiplied, that they hardly left any space to Gods mercie. Others say, [...]. disp. d. Repub. lib. 1. cap. 12. pag. 73. Espenc. com. T t. cap. 1. pag. 71. Tot in Ecclesiam abusus, & grauissimos morbos irrupisse, quibus ad [...], & [...] fama ad in fideles vsque dimanet Christianismum deridentes, &c. there is no place wherein is found so little pietie and Religion, as in those people which dwell neerest to Rome. Others say, [...] [...] in adag. Dulce belium inexpertis. that you haue not onely imitated and matched, but surpassed all the auarice, ambition, lubricitie, and tyrannie, that was euer heard of amongst the heathen. Sundrie of your owne part Aluar. Pelag. d. planct. Ecclesiae Nichol. Clemang. Onus [...]. Poth. d. stat. Domus Dei. haue writ­ten E volumes, containing Narrations of the outragious wicked­nesse [Page 112] which raigned among [...] They haue stiled your grand A fathers, Monsters of mankind [...] in Ioh. 13., The dregs of vice, Incarnate deuils, &c Concil. Constant. Seff. 11. ar. 5.. One saith, Auentin Anal. Boiorum l. 3. p. 211. Nothing was more luxurious, coue­tous and proud, than Priests; they spent the Churches patrimonie, in gluttonie, ryot, vpon dogs, and queanes, and all their preaching was to [...]. Matthew Paris saith, Chron. in Hen­rico 3. pag. 535. The [...] of Rome seeke not to make people deuout; but to fill their coffers with treasure; they studie not to win soules, but to [...] vpon o­ther mens reuenues; they oppresse the godly, and impudently vsurpe other mens right; they haue no care of honestie or right. King Iohn of England, Math. Paris. ib. anno 1213. p. 327 from whom Pope Innocent extorted fortie thou­sand B markes at once, and twelue thousand annually, to absolue his kingdome, being interdicted, said, That he had learned by wo­full experience, that the Pope was ambitious, beyond all men liuing, an insatiable, gulfe, and thirster after monie, and readie for hope of gaine, like waxe, to be [...] to any kind or degree of [...]. Aluares hath these words, Aluar. d. planct. Eccles. lib. 2. art. 5. litera Aleph. Vid. Surium. tom. 4. Con­cil. pag. 820. 824. 569. 579. 642. Ab­bas Vsperg. an. 99. Luithprand. vit. Pap. lib. 6. c. 6. Dionys. Carthus. Ep. in fine commentar. Apoc. Naclantus. Medulla script. in praelud. c. 4. Petrus [...]. pag. 39. & 40. Berchor. Dictionar. v. [...]. The mysticall Sion, the Church, which in her primitiue state was adorned of her spouse, with such, and so many royall graces, is now clouded and eclipsed, with the blacke mist of ig­norance, iniquitie, and errour, and we behold her cast downe from hea­uen, and as a desart vnhabited of vertue, and if any godly people re­maine, C they are esteemed as Arabians and Saracens. And in the same place Ibid. art. 17. Roderic. spec. pag. 316. Dies. postil: Ser. 4. d. Nat. Dom. pag. 363. Thom. Frater lib. d. Condit. Praelat. The Prelates of the Church are an armie of deuils: Po­tius depraedandis & spoliandis & scandalizandis hominibus quam lu­cris animarum operam dantes: They rather labour to rob, spoile, and scandalise men, than to win soules.

Honorius Angustodonensis Honor. Angust. Dial. d. [...]. & lib. [...]. Verte te ad Ciues Babyloniae, & vide quales sint & per quas tendant plateas, &c. Vide veni huc ad supercilium mon­tis, & cuncta possis aedificia cemere damnatae ciuitatis, Intuere Principes eius & Iudices (nempe Cardinales [...], &c.) Ecce posita est in eis bestiae sedes. Omni tempore ad malum sunt intenti semper negotijs iniquitatis inexplebiliter occupati, flagitia non solum faciunt, sed & alios facere instruunt: sancta vendunt scelera emunt totis [...] laborant, ne soli ad Tartara veniant. Verte te ad Clerum, & videbis in eis Bestiae [...], Dei seruitium negligunt, terrenis lucris inseruiunt, Sacerdotium per immunditiem polluunt, popu­lum per [...] seducunt, Deum per mala opera ab negant omnes Scripturas ad salutem pertinentes ab­dicam, omnibus modes laqueos ad ruinam populo substernunt, quem caecum ipsi caeci ad interitum praece­dunt. Contemplare & Monachorum conciliabula, & videbis in eis Bestiae Tabernacula per fictam professionem Deum irridentes iram eius prouocant normam regularem moribus & vita calcant, per habitum seculum fallunt, [...] deceptos decepti ipsi decipiunt, secularibus negotijs impliciti sunt, [...] seruitio Dei desides existunt: pleri­que E illorum gulae & [...] dediti sunt, quidam in immunditiae sorde computrescunt. Aspice etiam habita­cula monialium & cernes in eis Bestiae praeparatum Thalamum. Hae à tenera aetate impudicitiam discunt com­plices sibi plurimas ad cumulum suae damnationis adsciscunt, vel se operire festinant quo magis fiaena [...] laxare queant. Omnibus fornicarijs peius prosternuntur, & vt insatiabilis Charybdis nunquam stercore immun­ditiae replentur. Hae animas [...] illaqueant, & gaudent si plures illaqueant: atque haec vult palmam vi­ctoriae quae alijs praeualet in scelere., who liued in the yeere 1120. D hath these words: Turne thee to the citisens of Babylon, and obserue what manner of people they be, and by what streetes they walke; come hi­ther [Page 113] to the top of the mountaine, that thou mayest behold all the habi­tations A of the damned citie. Looke vpon her Princes and Iudges (Popes, Cardinals, Prelates) the verie seate of the beast is placed in them. All dayes they are intent to euill, [...] occupied (without satietie) in the works of iniquitie: they not onely themselues act, but instruct others to fla­gitious wickednesse; they make port-sale of things sacred, they pur­chase that which is wicked, and labour with all their might, that they may not descend alone to hell. Turne thy selfe to the Clergie, and thou shalt see in them the tent of the beast: they neglect Gods seruice, they are slaues to worldly lucre, they defile their Priesthood through vn­cleannesse, B they seduce the people by hypocrisie, they deny God by euill workes, they abandon all the Scriptures appointed for mans saluation, they lay snares all manner of wayes to ruine the people, and are blind guides, going before the blinde to perdition. Contemplate also the so­cieties of Monkes, and thou shalt discerne in them the tabernacles of the Beast: by faigned profession, they mocke God, and prouoke his wrath, they betrample their rule with vile manners, they deceiue the world by their habit, &c. Many of them are deuoted to gluttonie, and sensuall appetite: they putrifie in the filth of vncleannesse. Be­hold the habitation of Nunnes, and thou shalt obserue in them, a Bride­chamber C prepared for the Beast: These from their tender yeeres learne leaudnesse, they associate many to them, to accumulate their damnation; They make haste to bee vailed, that they may more freely let loose the reines of luxurie; they are prostituted worse than any Harlots, like an insatiable gulfe, they are neuer satisfied with the dung of vnclean­nesse: These insnare the soules of yong men, and shee among them which transcendeth her fellowes in leaudnesse, beares away the bell.

b [...]. Annal. Boior. l. 7. p. 530. Quemcun que sceleris obnoxium, parricidio, incestu, sacrilegio, pol­lutum, continuo vbi cruciculam vesti assuisset, solutum esse & crimine & poena declamitabant, quippe his aliter ab E auditoribus vt fit acceptis, maximam foenestram ad ne quitiam patefecerunt: plerique ansa hinc accepta inimicos suos prius tollebant, hinc in militiam sacram nomina dabant. [...]. com. Tit. 1. p. 67. Prostat & in quaestu pro me­retrice sedet, liber palam ac publice, hic impressus, hodie que vt olim venalis Taxa Camerae, siue Cancellariae A­postolicae, in scriptus, in quo plus scelerum discas licet, quam in omnibus vitiorum [...], & summarijs & plu­rimis quidem licentia, omnibus autem absolutio empturientibus, proposita. pa. 68. Habeat iam Roma pudorem, & [...] nullius frontis criminum, omne genus catalogum, prostituere desinat. Thirdly, the Roman Church hath many passages in the ve­rie course of Doctrine, to destroy or corrupt holinesse: for to omit their grosse superstitions, Pharisaicall Traditions, and D other impieties against God: First, They depriue people of the reading and hearing of the holy Scripture, which is a prin­cipall meanes to destroy Vice, and kindle Vertue Ambr. Hexam. l. 1. c. 8. Chrys. sup. Ioh. ho. 58. & ad Pop. Antioch. Ho. 1. & sup. Genes. Ho. 10. & Hom. 35. Am­bros. ser. 35. Cyril. c­lulian. lib. 7. p. 160. Fran. Picus. Theo­rem. 5., Deut. 31. 21. Secondly, Their doctrine of Pardons ministred daily oc­casion of intollerable wickednesse. For although their Schole­men plastered the same with subtle distinctions, yet the people entertained them according to the outward letter, and practi­sed accordingly. Thirdly, By some part of their doctrine they [Page 114] [...] people to commit sinne. Equiuocation is a doctrine of A Periurie. To affirme that it is lawfull to depose Princes, and take away their [...] in case of Heresie, is a plaine doctrine of [...] worse than murder; and if the Pope may command murder, why may he not also command adulterie, theft, and blasphemie. The doctrine of the Popes authoritie, to dispence with oathes Walsingham. Edwar. 1. p. 61. Ob­tinuit rex a Domi­no Papa absolutio­nem à iuramento, &c. vsus consuetudine & caurela paterna qui quoties instabat necessitas, de faciliiurare voluit se [...] suorum & eadem [...] voluit [...] quoties sibi tempus commodior accideret, B praetendens Papalem absol. à [...]., is perilous and pernitio us to the safetie of man­kind, making way to all kind of fraud and iniustice.

If the Roman Church be so apparantly and infinitly holy, why doth it openly maintaine Stewes, and receiue yearely tri­bute Constit. Otho. d. Concub. Cler. rem. Videtur quod crimen Meretricij Ecclesia sub dissi­mulatione transire debeat, nam & Ma­rischallus Papae de facto exigit tribu­tum a meretricib'., and part stake with Harlots? and wherefore are Sanctu­aries the harbours and dennes of Assisines, and other enormous delinquents, tollerated and supported by this Church? It is a monstrous doctrine which was hatched by Pope Vrban Inocent. part. 10. c. 34. Grat. Caus. 23. q. 5. cap. 47. Ex­communicatorum., and approoued by Baronius Baron. Anno 1089. n. 11. Non eos homicidas arbitra­mur, qui aduersus excommunicatos zelo Catholicae matris ardentes, eorum quosdam trucidare contigerit., That they are not to be iudged murthe­rers which slay excommunicate persons. The exemption of [...] from being tried in Causes Criminall, before Christi­an C Magistrates, is a doctrine which maketh way to most outra­gious offences, Gulielmus Nubrigensis, lib. 2. cap. 16. Roger. Houeden. Annal. part. Poster. [...] volebat Presbiteros, Diaconos, Subdiaconos, & alios Ecclesiae Rectores, si comprehensi fuissent in latrocinio, vel murdra, vel felonia, vel iniqua combustione, vel in hijs similibus, ducere ad Secularia examina, & punire, sicut & Laicum. Contrà quod Archiepiseopus dicebat &c. D The Iudges complained that there were many robberies, and rapes, and murthers, to the number of an hundred then presently committed within the realme by Ecclesiasticall persons (vpon presumption of exempti­on from the censure of the lawes.)

We cannot be persuaded that the Roman Church is holy in such high and extrordinarie manner as our Aduersarie boa­steth, because the greatest Clerkes of that societie, vndertake the defence of such impieties as are detestable in Nature, and condemned by the light of common Reason. Garnets Powder­plot hath many Patrons. Cardinall Baronius commendeth to Baron. Anno 1106. n. 14. Quis negare [...] summū fu­isse hoc pietatis ge­nus in hoc se exhi­buisse crudelem? Immo ex eo quod non [...] vinculis strinxerit &c. nihil habes in quo damnes [...], magis quam si vehementi faebre phre­netico, deliranti, [...], furentique, pius filius [...] vincula [...], si vere intuitu pietatis, vt facere prae se tulit ea omnia prestitit. the skies, yong Henrie the Emperors sonne for rebelling against his naturall father, for deposing, imprisoning, and bringing him with sorrow to the graue: what Turke or Sauage would be the encomiast of such vnnaturall and enormous villanie? E

IESVIT. A

Most [...] Apostolicall, [...] a most glorious succession of Bishops and Pastors from the Apostles, fa­mous in all monuments of Historie and Antiquitie, who were neuer noted as deliuering [...] doctrines the one to the other. In which proofe that these properties agree to the Roman, and be wanting in the Protestant Church, J B will not inlarge my selfe as I otherwise might, as well not to wearie your Maiestie, as also not to seeme to diffide (the matter being most cleere) of your Maiesties judgement: wherefore it is more than cleere, That the Roman Church is the One, Holy, Catholicke, Apostolicke Church, by whose Tradition Christian Religion hath beene, is, and shall be euer continued from the Apostles to the worlds end.

ANSVVER. C

First, If the present Roman Church do want the life and soule of Apostolicall Succession, to wit, Apostolicall Doctrine, locall and titular Succession is only a Pharisaicall cloake, or a painted wall, Acts 23.3. and common to Caiaphas, Paul Sa­mosaten, Nestorius, and to many other notorious Heretickes Anton. Perez. Pentateuch. fid. vol. [...]. du. 24. c. 14. [...] haeresis, ibi fides [...], & proindè ratio verae Ecclesiae [...]: quia forma constitutiua Ecclesiae est vera fides. Vndè cum constet Ecclesiam. Graecam carere verae [...] successio, ad tuendam atquè arguendam pro ea rationem verae Ecclesiae. Bosius, d. sig. [...]. lib. 17 ca. 5. Qua in re maxime obseruan­dum, non esse perpetuum in ijs Ecclesijs ordinem ( [...]) [...], qui fuerit interruptus ab Episco­pis D qui haeretica decreuerint. 416. Stapl. princip. Doctr. li. 13. ca. 6. Nec vbi adhuc durat talis personalis successio, Catholicae tamèn successioni quicquam habet affine aut simile, quia proptèr haereses quas tenent, & scisma quod faciunt, legitima illa successio non est. Ambros. d. [...]. li. 1. ca. 6. Non habent haereditatem Petri, qui fidem Petri non habent..

Secondly, The visible Succession of the Bishops and Pastors of the said Church from the Apostles, is not most glorious and famous, by the report of all monuments of Historie and Anti­quitie Abbas. Vsperg. Cron. pag. 307. Vix remansit aliquis E­piscopatus, siuè dignitas Ecclesiastica, quae non [...] litigiosa, & Romam deduceretur ipsa causa, sed non [...] thesaurorum in terra, vt ad te E [...], & aggeres [...] in [...] copia. [...] supèr iniquitate filiorum hominum, quoniam in recompensationem [...] malorum [...] tibi [...]. Iocundare super [...] tua discordia, quià erupit de puteo infernalis abissi, vt accumulentur tibi multa pecuniarum praemia. Habes quod sempèr sitisti, decanta [...] trahit homines, non ipsorum de­uotio aut pura conscientia, sed scelerum multiplicium perpetratio, & litium decisio praecio [...].: but the same hath beene notoriously distained in lat­ter times, by Simoniacall entrance of Popes and Prelats, by [Page 116] Schysmaticall intrusions, and by commutation of the forme A of election of Pastors appointed by the Apostles, and exerci­sed in the Primatiue Church. And whereas the Aduersarie contendeth that Roman Bishops and Pastours hane Succession of doctrine, because Ecclesiasticall Historie is silent, in noting latter Popes for deliuering contrarie doctrines the one to the other, both the Illation it selfe, and the antecedent, or ground of the Illation are false.

First, it is inconsequent to inserre negatiuely from humane Historie, and to say Histories are silent, and therefore no such matter was. Our Sauiour prooueth the Pharisees and Saddu­ces B to be errants, because their present doctrine was repugnant to the Scripture: and had the Pharisees or Sadduces replied, That their doctrine was the same which Moses & the Prophets taught, because they had Snccession, and Histories were silent when they changed the antient Faith; they had iustified them­selues vpon as good grounds as Papals do.

Secondly, it is false, which this disputer venteth so confi­dently, That Histories and antient Monuments are altogether silent of the Innouations which were made by latter Popes: and we are able (as in due place it shall appeare) to produce te­stimonies C of Historie to the contrarie.

IESVITS 2. Argument.

Protestants haue the holy Scriptures deliuered vnto them by and from the One, Holy, Catholicke, and Apostolical Church: but they receiued them from no other Church than the Roman, Ergo the Roman is the One, Holy, Catholicke, and Apostolicke Church. D

ANSVVER.

This Sillogisme is peccant in forme, and both the propositi­ons are affirmatiue in the second figure; which I note the ra­ther, because the Aduersarie at the end of his Argument cry­eth Victoria, saying, An Argument conuicting and vnanswerable. I must therefore reduce the same to a lawfull forme, and then answer.

First, If this Argument be conuicting and vnanswerable, as the Iesuit boasteth, then these which follow are such.

The deliuerie of the Text of the holy Scriptures is common to the true, and corrupt Church, and not proper to the Only, C Holy, Catholicke, and Apostolicke Church: as appeareth by the Synagogue, which being a corrupt Church at the time of our Sauiours Aduent, yet by the speciall prouidence of God, preserued and deliuered the Text of the old Testament, Rom. 3.2. And S. Agustine Aug sup. Psal. 41. Modò nobis ser­uiunt Iudaei, tan­quam Capsarij no­stri sunt, studenti­bus nobis codices portant. Id. d. Con­sens. D Euang. lib. 1. c. 26. testifieth of the Iewes, That they were Li­brarie keepers Aug. sup. Psal. 56. Codicem portat [...] vndè credat Christianus: Librarij no­stri facti sunt &c. Idem d. Diuinat. Daem. ca. 7. to Christians, of the Bookes of the Law and Prophets. And S. Hierom saith Hierom. sup. [...] saiam c. 6. [...] si aliquis dixerit Hebraeos Libros posteà à Iudaeis esse falsatos, audiat Originem quid in octauo volumine explanationum Esaiae, huic re­spondeat quaestiunculae, quod nunquam Dominus & Apostoli qui caetera crimina arguunt in Scribis & Pharisaeis, de hoc crimine quod erar maximum [...]: sin autèm dixerint post [...], & praedicatio­nem Apostolorum Libros [...] falsatos chachinnum tenere non potero, [...] Saluator & Euangelistae & Apostoli ita testimonia protulerint, vt Iudaei posteà falsaturi erant. Ioseph. c. Appion. li. 1. Euseb. Hist. Eccles. lib. 3. cap. 9. [...]. Id. d. Praep. Euang. li. 8. ca. 2. Ex Philone. [...] annorum millibus, [...] maiore tempore iàm transacto, nec verbum vnum in lege illius esse immutatum, sed centies vnusquisquè [...] morietur potiùs quam legi Mosaicae derogabit, pa 141., That the Hebrews did not corrupt the Text of the old Testament. Also the Donatists and Nouatians deliue­red the incorrupt Text of holy Scripture to their followers.

Secondly, the proposition of the former Argument hath E another defect. The Text of holy Scriptures may be deliue­red by a particular Church, which is but a member of the vni­uersall, and therefore it is inconsequent to conclude, That be­cause the Protestants receiued the Scriptures from the Roman [Page 118] Church, therefore they receiued them, to wit, immediatly from A the vniuersall Church.

The Minor proposition, to wit, the Protestants receiued the Scriptures, from no other Church than from the Romane, may be taken in a double sence.

For either it may be vnderstood originally, and by way of au­thoritie: that is: The Protestants receiued the Scriptures, both originally and deriuatiuely, from, and by the authoritie of the Romane Church onely; or else it may bee vnderstood indi­catiuely:

The Protestants receiued the Scriptures by the hand of the B Romane Church, and were first of all instructed, and told by that Church, that the same were diuine Bookes: yet they re­ceiued them not onely or principally from that church, but al­so, from the Primitiue Church, which led them originally to the Apostles themselues Aug. c. Faust. Manich. lib. 11. ca. 2. Palam est quantum in re dubia ad fidem & certitudinem valeat Catholicae Ecclesiae Authoritas, quae ab ipsis fun­datissimis sedibus Apostolorum vs (que) in hodiernum diem, succedentibus sibimet Episcopis, secundum seriem suc­cessionis & tot populorum consensione [...]. Driedo. d. Eccles. Dogmat. l. 2. c. 3. Scriptura cognoscebatur esse Sacra & vera, ex ea quae tunc erat Ecclesia, cui ipse Christus perhibuit testimonium, viua voce Signorū & pro­digiorum attestatione. Proinde fides tunc ex persona probanda veniebat. In Ecclesia autem quae [...] est, Chri­stus nec sic praesens propria voce loquitur, nec se loqui ostendit sub attestatione prodigiorum & signorum, nec C spiritus Sanctus in ea iam ita manifestus apparet in signorum & prodigiorum attestationibus, quibus nunc non opus est, ad corroborandum Euangeliorum doctrinam, olim multifariam & sufficienter corroboratam. Proinde fi­des non amplius ex personis probanda venit, sed contrario ex sua fide probantur personae, sicut & ex [...] Sacris cognoscitur ea quae nunc est Ecclesia..

And besides the former Tradition, by reading and studying the holy Scriptures, they learned sufficient matter, out of those heauenly bookes, to confirme them, that they were diuine, and of God. Philemon receiued S. Pauls Epistle by the hand of One­simus, he did not esteeme Onesimus a seruant, who had beene a fugitiue, an infallible witnesse in himselfe: but the argument D and contents of S. Pauls Epistle, persuaded him that S. Paul was the Author. A man may receiue the Kings Proclamation, from off a pillar, or his great Seale by the hand of a meane clarke: So likewise the bookes of holy Scriptures are first conueyed vnto vs by Ecclesiasticall testimonie and Tradition: but they con­taine heauenly veritie, and doctrine within themselues, which persuade the diligent readers and learners of them, that they are diuine.

IESVIT. E

The Maior I prooue. If Protestants haue not the Text of Scripture, by and from, the one, holy, Catholicke and Apostolicke Church, they cannot be certaine they haue [Page 119] the true incorrupt Text the Apostles deliuered, and re­commended A as Diuine, to the first [...]; seeing the Tradition of any other Church is fallible, and may de­ceiue. And if it may deceiue, how can they be certaine that they are not deceiued, seeing they themselues liued not in the Apostles dayes, to see with their owne eyes what Copies the Apostles deliuered. But Protestants, as they pretend, be certaine that they haue the true incorrupt Apostolicall Text of Scripture: Ergo, they haue it vpon B the Authoritie of the holy Catholike Apostolike Church.

ANSWER.

The Argument whereby the Aduersarie confirmeth his Maior, is this:

If the Protestants receiue the Scriptures from any other, but the Holy Catholique Church, they cannot be certaine that the same are in­corrupt, because a fallible Witnesse may deceiue.

Answ. They which receiue the Scriptures from the hands C of a corrupt Church, may be deceiued, if there be not some other infallible meanes, besides the Testimonie of that Church, to assure them. But if that Church be onely a Messenger, to deliuer, and there be found in the thing deliuered that which is certaine and infallible in it selfe, to wit, the Testimonie of the Apostles, and of the Spirit of God, speaking in and by those Scriptures Gregor. Moral. Lib. 16. cap. 17. In Scriptura eius quasi os eius intuentur; quia Deus per e­am loquitur omne quod vult. ( Acts 24. 25.) then they which immedi­ately receiue the Text of the Scripture from a fallible Church, may be certaine that they are not deceiued.

It is not necessarie, that the Messenger, by and from whose D hands wee receiue immediately the Text of the Scriptures, should be infallible in all things; for then wee must receiue them from the hands of no particular Church, or particular Councell, vnconfirmed by the Pope, or from any particular Pastour of the Church, because these are fallible: And ac­cording to our Aduersaries Tenet, infallibilitie of Iudge­ment is found onely in the Pope, and Councell confirmed by him Greg. Val. to. 3. Disp. 2. Punct. 2. pag. 30. Bellarm. d. Concil. lib. 2. c. 2..

And from hence it will in like sort follow, that for the E first two or three hundred yeeres (beginning from the death of the Apostles) in which time there was no generall Coun­cell Bellarm. d. Con­cil. lib. 1. c. 10. Pri­mis trecentis annis caruit Ecclesia [...] generalibus., yea, for certaine Ages, after generall Councels began, vntill the Canon of the Scripture was expressely assigned by some generall or particular Councell, confirmed by the Pope, [Page 120] Christians should haue remained vncertaine, touching the sa­cred A Authoritie of Diuine Scripture, because the meanes by which they receiued them immediately, were fallible.

The Authoritie of the holy Scripture dependeth vpon the immediate Messenger which deliuereth the Bookes vnto vs, no more than the Authoritie of the Kings Proclamation de­pendeth vpon the Sergeant who proclaymes it, or sets it vpon a Pillar, to be read of all men, but vpon the first Diuine Wit­nesses, which wee know to be the Authors of the Scripture: not because Pope Paul the fifth, or Clement the eight say so, but because the Witnesses themselues affirme it in their Scrip­ture, Read before, pag. 13. &c. B or deliuer that in their Scripture, by which it is prooued, to such as are eleuated by Grace, and taught of God.

IESVIT.