The defence of Iob Throkmorton against the slaunders of Maister Sutcliffe taken out of a copye of his owne hande as it was written to an honorable personage.

¶ The defence of Iob Throkmorton, againſt the ſlaunders of Maiſter Sutcliffe.

GOOD Madame, I thinke my ſelfe much bounde vnto your La. that you would vouchſafe to make ſome pauſe, and to ſuſpende your iudgement before you paſſed anie abſolute verdicte againſt me. It is much I cōfeſſe in this ſwift cenſuring and preiudiciall age of ours, wherein mens willes & affections ſtande for ſtatutes. Seeing then you are ſo deſirous to know the trueth, I will not (I aſſure you) hyde any thing from you that I can call to minde. And howe ſo euer for want of memorie (things being paſſed ſo long agoe) I may happelie faile in ſome wordes, time, or circumſtance that are not materiall. I dare auowe vnto your La. that for the ſubſtance of the thing it ſelf there is no vntrueth in it at all: But euen that which I will iuſtifie vppon mine othe, if I ſhould be therevnto called before the Parleament, or before the Lordes, which for my better clearing herein (being by this falſe and ſlaunderous accuſation ſo much iniured as I am) is the thing I doe deſire: proteſtinge vnto you, that I was ſo farre from beeing acquainted with anie of the lewde practiſes of Hacket and his accomplices, (as Maiſter Sutcliffe and the Pretended Conſpiracie would ſeeme to inſinuate) that I doe not remember that euer I did ſo much as ſee the man aboue once in my life.

As for Copinger (though I confeſſe, I had heard of him before by my couſine Middlemore, that dead is, who had in part diſcried vnto me the humour of the man, and the ſickneſſe of his braine) yet the firſt time that euer I ſawe him, or had anie acquaintance with him, was on a Sabbath in Hillarie teaime before his fall 1590. At which time meeting him at the Blacke friers in the after noone, when the Lecture was done, he called me aſide, telling me that hee would gladly ſpeak with me, that his name was Copinger. I aſked him what kinne he was to Maiſter Ambroſe Copinger that ſerued ſometime the Earle of Warwike, he ſaid, his owne brother, I tolde him I loued him the better for that. And ſo he would needes drawe me on with him to his lodging.

By the way, as we went, he aſked me ſundrie queſtions concerning my trouble, & the matter of my endightment, and howe I ſpedde. I tolde him, I hoped well, the rather becauſe mine owne heart was a witneſſe to me of mine innocencie. And then he fell from that to other matters, wherein he made me remember my couſine Middlemore his wordes: for me thought he beganne to talke ſomethinge wildly and ſtrangely of th'ouerthrow of the BB. and th'expelling of dumme miniſters all at one clappe, with ſundrie other reeling vagaries without ſence, whereof I can not nowe call to minde euerie particular. But this among the reſt I wel remember, that he tolde me he was in good hope, ere it were long, to bring my L. Treaſurer about to lyke of his deviſe, •• to which effect he ſaied, he had written to his Honor of late, and looked for anſwere ſhortlie, vnto all which (muſinge with my ſelfe that he would thus boldlie ruſhe vpon theſe matters, eſpeciallie to a man that hee neuer ſawe before) I ſaide little, Onelie I wiſhed that in ſo great and waightie affaires as thoſe, he would be ſure of his grounde and warrant before he attempted anie thing, and doo nothing of his owne head without th'adviſe of thoſe that were wiſe and feared God. I warrant you (ſayeth he) I will be ſure of my grounde: I will looke to that.

When he came to his lodging, he tolde me it was a day of priuate faſt with him, and therevppon was verie importunate with me to haue prayed: which when I refuſed, becauſe (as I tolde him) I would bee loth to take anie ſuch thing in hande vpon a ſuddaine without premeditation, he caſting me a cuſſhen to kneele on, fell him ſelfe to pray after his manner: a thing wherein my Couſine Middlemore had tolde me before he tooke a ſingular delight, hauinge ſome conceite and opinion of his gifte that way.

Loth I am (my good Lady) to be an ouerſwift and haſtie cenſurer of anie mans praier, eſpeciallie in this cold and prophane age of ours, wherein men let not blaſphemouſlie to ſcorne and deride, as it were, the verie giftes and graces of Gods ſpirit. But, if I ſhall tell you ſimplie and plainlie what I thinke, this prayer of Maiſter Copingers (though it were full of outwarde zeale and fernentneſſe, if not too feruent, becauſe he vſed many of theſe ohes, loude ſighes and groninges, when as I conceiued the matter in weight, did nothing anſwere thoſe patheticall outcries) was not, me thought, ſquared after the rule of knowledge, neither in methode, matter nor manner, nor yet ſavouring of that humilitie and diſcretion, as were to bee wiſhed in ſo zealous a profeſſour as he made ſhewe of. It was very long and tedious, peſtered with many impertinent diſcourſes and needleſſe repetitions of one and the ſame thing, ſtuffed and enterlarded with ſundrie bitter imprecations, about which he and I had no ſmall adoe, and ſome hote bickering within a while after. But the iſſue was, that hauinge caught ſome colde, and beeing nothing well before, this long kneeling and late tarying in that ſnowie and froſtie ſeaſon, did not helpe anie with to diminiſhe, but rather to increaſe my griefe, and brought me to a fitte of an ague.

Not long after this, when I had ſomething recouered my ſelfe, I went to viſite Maiſter Cart. in the Fleete, vnto whom I ſignified what had paſſed betwixt Maiſter Copinger and me, and of the newe acquaintance that he would needes faſten and enforce vpon me. But he bade me in anie wiſe beware and take heed of him, for he feared him greatlie that certeinlie all was not well with him, and that he hadThat is, ſome crazing of the braine. laeſum principium, at the leaſt, telling me howe faine he would haue propounded & faſtened ſome of his fooleries and phantaſticall reuelations vpon him. But (ſayeth he) I haue returned him ſuch an anſwere, as I beleeue hee will not greatlie like of, neither ſeeke to me in haste againe for reſolution.

After this hauing beene in the countrie, when I came vp againe to London, Maiſter Copinger meeting me in the ſtreetes, tolde me that he had bene ſundrie times at my lodging to ſeeke me, but nowe I was come, he would viſite me one of theſe dayes, and therevpon would needes knowe of me when he ſhould be ſure to haue me within. I tolde him I had much buſines, and therefore could not well ſet him downe anie certeine time, but ſeeing I was a Legier heere, there would be time enough to meete before the Tearme were done. But he not ſatisfied heerewith, did not giue ouer, in a maner day by day, yea and ſometimes, as I vnderſtoode, three of foure times a day, to ſeeke me at my lodging. Nowe perceyuing belike that I did as much as in me lay, of purpoſe to ſhunne and avoid him (as in deede vpon the warning of Maiſter Cart. and the former ſpeeces of my Couſine Middlemore I did) he came one morning betime to my lodging before I was out of my bedde, and there he tolde me he had diuers things to ſhewe me of importance You ſhall ſee (ſayeth he) that I haue not dallied or ſlept this geare, for I haue dealt, I tell you, with the highest. And therevppon hee pulles me out of his boſome a bundle of papers, whiche were, the moſt of them, the copies of ſuch letters, as he had eyther alreadie written, or els had a purpoſe to write to ſeueral perſons for the furtherance of the cauſe, as he tearmed it. Among the which I remember there was one to my L. Treaſurer, one to the Counteſſe of Warwicke, and within that, one to her maieſtie. Th'effect of all which, to my remembrance, was of certaine horrible practiſes, treaſons, & conſpiracies intended againſt the Queene. And all theſe were onely indefinitlie ſet downe in a kinde of generalitie, without naminge or pointinge at anie particular, eyther of time, place, perſon or circumſtance. More hee had recorded among thoſe papers of his, th'aunſwere that he tolde me he had receiued by woord of mouth, both from my L. Treaſurer and the Counteſſe to this effecte, as I remember, Let not Copinger builde vs castels in th'ayre, or feede vs with phanſies, fables, or dreames, but let him bring vs ſome grounded matter wherevpon we may worke, and he ſhall well perceyue, he ſhall be backed against the greateſt ſubiect in the lande, &c. Withall I remember he tolde me that that Letter to her Maieſtie the Counteſſe kept ſtill in her handes, and would in no wiſe deliuer it, till ſhee ſawe ſome better matter to ground vpon. Sundrie other copies of letters he ſhewed me at that time, as namelie one as I thinke to his ſiſter Randoll, one to Maiſt. Egerton, one to Maiſter Cart. one to Maiſter Fuller, another to Maiſter Lancaſter, two to Maiſt. Vdall, with ſome others that I can not nowe call to minde. Neither, to ſpeake the trueth, did I giue any great eare vnto them, hauing at that inſtant ſome ſpeciall buſines, and therefore could the more willinglie haue ſpared his cōpanie. Yet this I noted among th 〈◊〉 reſt, that there were fewe of thoſe letters of his without ſome piece of imprecation or other, which ſounded ſtrange in mine eares.

Nowe after he had thus ſhuffled ouer his letters and papers vnto me, he fell to diſcourſe with me at large of certeine ſtraunge revelations and apparitions that he had of late, as namely, Once in his bedde when his brother Maiſter Ambroſe Copinger, and another Gentleman lay by him, He tolde me him ſelfe, that they that lay by him beeing awaked with the loude noiſe and groaning that hee made, as men ſomething amazed at the ſtrangeneſſe thereof, did call on him aloude, verely thinking him not to bee well in his wittes, Whereas in trueth (ſayeth he) I was inwardlie rauiſhed in ſpirit, did groane in ſoule, and was talking with my God, who did most comfortably and gloriouſlie appeare vnto me: yet they would by no meanes beleeue it, but thought verely I had bene beſide my ſelfe, &c. And then he fell to vſe many proteſtations, yea and imprecations vnto me, to perſwade me of the trueth hereof: namely, that he for his part was as ſure that the Lorde had reuealed ſundrie thinges vnto him, poore worme of th'earth (for thoſe were his words) as he was ſure of his death. And euen here it was that I tooke occaſion to deale with him ſo roundlie about thoſe kinde of curſinges and imprecations that were ſo vſuall with him, aſwell in his prayer, letters and ſpeaches, as, The Lorde confounde me, Let vengeaunce conſume me, Let th'earth open and ſwallowe me, &c. Whereof I was ſo farre (I tolde him) from ſeeing any warrant or exāple in the worde, that on the contrarie I thought they could not be vſed without a grieuous ſinne and offence vnto the Maieſtie of God. Concerning all which his defence, me thought, was moſt ſilie and pitifull, hauing nothing in the worlde to ſalue it with but onely Extraordinarie, Extraordinarie.

Wherevpon he fell in ſome earneſt manner to queſtion and expoſtulate with me, what I thought, whether all extraordinarie callings were nowe ceaſed, & whether it w ••• not poſſible that a man ſhould haue anie particular reuelations in this age, aſwell as in former times, greatly comp • ayning that Maiſter Cart. and Maiſter Egerton, with all • he godlie preachers about the Citie, aſwell thoſe in priſon, as at libertie, ſhould be of that iudgement, That we were not to rest vpon anie of thoſe extraordinarie reuelations in this age, but rather to accompt of them as deceitfull ſuggestions of Sathan, &c.

To which effecte I remember, as his cuſtome was to haue his boſome full of papers, copies of letters, and ſuch like, (becauſe he ſaied he loued to keepe his reckonings about him, that he might walke ſurelie) he drewe out certeyne notes, either of his owne hande, or of ſome of theirs, wherby was manifeſtlie refuted that fond opinion of his concerning reuelations: all which, as he ſhewed me one by one, ſo he forgate not to tell me ſtill by the way, howe weake their reaſons were, to this end (as it ſhould ſeeme) that he might thereby, with more eaſe, faſten this conceite vppon me, and drawe me, if he could, to be of his minde.

Wherein, Madame, as in manie other things, albeit there bee good cauſe why I ſhould be reaſonably acquainted with mine owne weakeneſſe, yet finding my ſelfe (vpon the conference I had with Maiſter Cart. and others) ſufficientlie armed, as I thought, to withſtande a greater aſſault then this, I dealt plainlie and roundly with Maiſter Copinger, and did aſſure him for a full and flatte reſolution, that for mine owne part I was altogither of the iudgement of thoſe godlie Miniſters he ſpake of, not that I did therein or in anie thing els, relye my ſelfe wholy vpon men, were they neuer ſo reuerend, but that I ſawe no warrāt for thoſe his dreames and imaginations out of the worde. And nowe that the Lord had thus at large reuealed his will vnto vs, euen ſufficient to make the man of God perfect, if mine owne Father were aliue and ſhould tell me of anie other reuelations then that, I durſt not hearken or giue eare vnto him, being a thing verie daungerous and deceitfull for anie man to ground vppon. And therefore if I were as you, Maiſter Copinger (for thoſe, I aſſure you, were my wordes vnto him) I would rather ſuſpecte this that you ſpeake of to be ſome meere illuſion of the Deuill, then any ſounde reuelation from God, &c. Well, ſaith he, Maiſter Throk. (ſtriking his hande vpon the deſke that was by me) what ſo euer you and others doe thinke of the ſtrangeneſſe and impoſſibilitie hereof, I am out of doubt of the trueth of it, being more then once, or twice, and that after many conflictes, agonies and trialls, aſſured thereof, euen by the holy ghoſt him ſelfe from heauen: and that the Lorde him ſelfe hath appointed me, for ſome ſpeciall work of his to his glorie: In which ſpeeches of his me thought I ſawe ſome wilde and ſtrange caſt of his countenance.

Nowe when he ſawe that after all theſe his perſwaſions, proteſtations, and fearfull imprecations, he could by no meanes faſten vpon me any liking of theſe his extraordinarie reuelations (though he often alleadged Maiſter Knox, and ſome others vnto me) he grew in th'end to this, that there was a worke to be done, for the Church, which the Lord would not haue wrought by ſuch men of great giftes as Maiſter Egerton, Maiſter Cart. and my ſelfe were (for ſo it pleaſed him to couple vs togither.) But this muſt be effected, forſooth, by men of baſe accompte, of no giftes, & ſuch as are (as it were) the verie abiectes of th'earth: For euer, ſaieth he, the Lorde woorketh the greateſt woorkes by the weakeſt inſtruments. And herevpon it was that he began to commende and extoll this Hacket vnto me, as a very rare & notable man, and yet ſuch a one as could not reade a letter on the booke: One that in deede had bene (as he ſaied) a vile and prophane wretch in his dayes, but was wonderfullie altered and come home. A man that would not ſticke in all humilitie to acknowledge the ſinne of his former life with deteſtation, and was nowe become a conuert, forſooth, and a diligent hearer of the woord. To this effect (I aſſure you) and with manie moe wordes then I can well vtter, did he blaze out the praiſes of this newe prophet of his. And then, ſeeing ſome others come vp to me about buſines, he ſnatched vp his papers, and thruſting them into his boſome, he tooke his leaue for that time.

But you muſt vnderſtande, Madame, that before this conference of ours, he wrote vnto me, and finding belike that my anſwere was not to his ſatisfaction, he founde this meanes to ſteale vpon me, as I haue deſcribed. His letter was to the very ſame effecte as his ſpeeches were, to witte: That he hoped to liue to doo ſome ſeruice to the Church of God. That what ſo euer perſwaſions men vſed vnto him to deſiſt and breake off his courſe, yet he had no cauſe to be diſcouraged, becauſe he had his warrant from heauen: Further, that with the Lorde the greatest workes were euer brought to paſſe by the weakeſt inſtrumentes, &c.

Implying & enforcing ſtill that this Hacket, forſooth (whom all this while I neuer ſawe nor heard of, but by Copingers report) muſt be the man that muſt doe the feate, becauſe hee was a weake one and vnlearned.

Vnto this letter of his (purpoſelie to aduiſe him to beware what he did, and to looke before he leapt) I wrote him that anſwere which they haue nowe in their handes, and which Maiſter Copinger kept in his boſome among other papers, euen the ſame that deſperate Maiſter Sutcliffe, and the Pretended conſpiracie, haue thus printed and publiſhed by patches and pieces, with ſo manie &c. I muſe they would not publiſhe it altogither, as it was, vnmangled, It had ſure bene a great deale fairer play, eſpeciallie in a cauſe that concernes (as is pretended) a mans life, credite and good name. I thanke God, Madame, if they doe not adde or enlarge, or if they doe not curtaile it, clippe it, enterline it, and tranſforme it, I doe not feare the view of that letter to be preſented at anie time, before the Lordes, and my ſelfe to be cenſured and puniſhed, as they in their wiſedomes ſhall thinke my ouerſight that way to deſerue. For vnleſſe I greatlie deceyue my ſelfe, the very ſhreades of that letter, which they haue thus diſmembred, renting one clauſe from another, yea, and, by their leaue, altering and ouerſtrayninge ſome wordes too, doe notwithſtāding (if they be rightly weighed) ſufficienlie cleare me in th'eies of all vnpartiall and indifferent minded men. And yet it may be they knowe that the whole letter would haue cleared the ſuſpicion much more, Therefore vtterly to ſuppreſſe that whiche would cleare a Puritane moſt was for them the wiſeſt though peraduenture not the conſcionableſt courſe.

It may be (and it is like enough if they haue all his papers) that they haue alſo another ſhort letter of mine in aunſwere to another of Maiſter Copingers, who writing vnto me thus: Deare brother, I hope, ere it be long, you ſhall ſee an alteration: I anſwered him euen vnder the ſame letter, both in one paper thus: Such an alteration as would breede a reformation and not a confuſion, I would be hartilie glad of, and I doe daily pray for. Seeing they are ſo ful of their printing, I would wiſhe they had bene ſo kind-harted to haue printed this too.

Nowe that your Honor may the better iudge, whether I be herein injured or no, or whether it be vpon the ſpleene (as it were) without cauſe, that I doe thus complaine, It may pleaſe you a little to conſider with me of theſe fewe particulars enſuing.

Firſt, whereas Maiſter Copinger in his letter ſeemed to be ſorie that I ſhould be one of thoſe that did condemne his courſe, and I aſſured him that as I was not ouer haſtie to condemne him in a matter that I knew not of, nor had anie acquaintance with, but only hearde of at the ſecond hand, as it were, by certeine buzzes & flying reportes abroad, &c. All that former part of my letter, & thoſe wordes that make ſo manifeſtly and apparauntlie for my clearing, and wherein I doe vtterlie diſavowe all knowledge and acquaintance with thoſe courſes of his (becauſe they would ſo faine haue me ſeeme guiltie) is quite left out & ſuppreſſed: not a word of that I warrant you.

Then whereas the whole drift and ſcope of my letter is a meere diſſwaſion of Maiſter Copinger to goe on with anie ſole or ſingular courſe of his owne head, and that hee take both his eyes in his handes, and be ſure of his grounde before he ſtriue to put any thing in execution: they haue laboured to invert all, ſtrayning and ſtretchinge both my words and meaning quite againſt the haire, as may appeare by their marginall note ſtriue to put in execution? whereby they would make the world beleeue (if they could) that Throk. was no diſſwader, but rather an encourager and egger on of Copinger, to put in execution that which before he had conceiued in his braine.

And nowe to mende the matter, in the necke of this comes Maiſter Su • cliffe with his vie, offring me full as hard meaſure as all this comes too, and thereof I make your La. the iudge. For whereas in the feeling and experience of mine owne weakneſſe and wantes, I dare not boaſt nor take vppon me the name of a ſanctified heart, he verie kindly, I thanke him, ſettes his brand vpon me in the margine in this manner: A ſanctified Puritane. The thing that I doe apparantlie diſavowe and renounce as not daring to boaſt of, it pleaſeth him, in his girding manner, to vpbraied me with, as if I did arrogantlie aſſume it vnto my ſelfe: ſo that you ſee I can eſcape him no way. Nay it ſeemeth he is ſo eger and ſharpe ſett to ſnappe and bite at me, that he will not giue me leaue to ſpeak ſometimes the very language of Chanaan: no not as the holy Ghoſt him ſelfe ſpeaketh in the Scripture, but I ſhall beare a blowe for it. Him ſelfe knoweth (I doubt not) better then I, that it is th'vſuall phraſe with the Hebrewes to ſay, The first Moneth: The fifte Moneth-The ſeauenth Moneth: The nienth Moneth. And albeit I holde it not vnlawfull to name and write the Monethes as we vſuallie doe, as March, Aprill, May, &c. So yet for a man once or twice in his life to vſe the phraſe of the holy Scripture, and ſay, The fift Moneth, ſhould not, me thinkes, in equitie (if it be rightly weighed) deſerue ſo great a reproch. And I muſe if Maiſter Sutcliffe ſhould comment vpon the tenth chapter of Ezra, where it is ſaid, That the people ſate downe and trembled before the Lorde the twentieth day of the nienth moneth. And againe, Th'auncient heades ſate downe to examine the matter, the firſt day of the tenth Moneth. I muſe, I ſaye, if he ſhould comment vpon this, whether he would therevpon make ſuch a marginall gloſſe, as he hath done vpon my poore letter, This is the newe abſurde Conſiſtorian ſtile.

Wherein yet your La. may ſee howe eaſelie a wiſe man may ouerſlip him ſelfe in his diſtemperature. For if it be true that this manner of writinge, The fourth Moneth, The fift Moneth, The eight Moneth, &c. (which is ſo ill taken and ſo ſcornefullie diſgeaſted by Maiſter Sutcliffe) bee not onely the phraſe of poore Maiſter Caluin, or Beza, or barelie a Geneuian deuiſe (for then, I feare me, he would goe nighe to treade it vnder his feete, and rent the record with his teeth,) but alſo th'uſuall phraſe of the Biſhops them ſelues, in the tranſlation of their great Bibles, commaunded and enioyned to be reade in Churches. If this, I ſay, may be prooued (as it is manifeſt and apparaunt to all that will not wilfullie muffle them ſelues) then muſt it needs be that he hath herein, in a ſorte, done him ſelfe a piece of iniurie, and that in leueling thus greedilie at me, he hath vnaduiſedly ruſhed vppon ſome of his deareſt friendes, whom I am ſure he would be loth to offende. If he ſay that they doe but tranſlate ſo, and I doe write ſo: It will be but a ſilie & ſlender voydance of the matter. For, I hope, he will not ſay that his Graue fathers doe either in their writing or in their trrnſlation vſe anie, Newe, abſurde, Puritane or Conſistorian ſtile, which, hee knowes, they might eaſelie avoied, if there were anie ſuch abſurditie in the matter as hee would beare vs in hande, and tranſlate for The firſt Moneth, March. For the ſeconde Aprill, and ſo of the reſt, if it pleaſed them. Therefore if Maiſter Sutcliffe ſhould ſay neuer ſo conſtantly, nay if hee ſhould ſweare vnto me, that this maner of writing were abſurd and Conſistorianlike, he muſt pardon me, I could not beleeue it, my reaſon is, becauſe the Biſhops them ſelues doe vſe it. And where doe they vſe it? Euen there, where I preſume they would be moſt afraied to vſe anie ſtraunge, abſurd, or vnwarrantable ſpeach, to wit, in the holy ſcriptures of God, which they know are to bee handled with all pietie and reuerence, as may moſt tende to th'edification of the people of God. If then it be in no ſorte abſurde in them, no more, ſay I, can it be in me, ſeeing the very ſame phraſe that I haue vſed but once onely in my Letter, they haue vſed in their tranſlation aboue twentie times, and yet it were heard, he knowes, to coumpt them eyther Preciſians or Diſciplinarians for all that.

By this, Madame, and the reſt, your La. may eaſilie ſee, that I am both vncharitablie and vnchriſtianlie dealt with. And yet to ſpeak indifferentlie, I ought not in ſome regard to thinke much of it, or take it to harte, when ſo reuerend a man as Maiſter Egerton is, (for whoſe holy prayers I doe not doubt but her Maieſtie and the whole State doeth proſper the better) can by no meanes eſcape the ſtinge of their envenomed mouthes.

It may be your La. hath heard howe learnedly & roundlie Maiſter Sutcliffe did confute him of late in Pawles, euen ſince the publiſhing of his laſt declamation, and that to his face before D. White, and others. I was not by my ſelfe, but if it be as I haue heard, the ſpeeches were ſo opprobrious, as I am halfe aſhamed to ſet downe with my penne, remembring the perſon againſt whom they were vttered. They were neither Greeke nor Hebrewe, nor yet ſcarce any congruitie of good manner, but (ſauing your reuerence, (Madame) plaine Scabbe, and ſcurvey Iacke. In which veine of kitchen rhetorike, if they would giue me leaue alſo to followe the ſway of fleſhe and bloud, me thinkes I could eaſilie without anie great ſweate or paines (if there were no boundes of modeſtie to reſtraine me) learne to confute the honeſteſt man, and the greateſt Clarke in Chriſtendome.

But this is not all: For both he and the Conſpiracie doe dreſſe him another way, though in words nothing ſo groſlie, yet in weight and conſequent full as bytingly as this, & that by a certeine pretie conveiance or ſleight of a finger called Inverſio. For whereas Maiſter Egertons perſwaſion to Maiſter Copinger was (as I haue heard) to this effecte and in this forme, to wit, That albeit he would bee loth to quenche the Spirit, or kill any zeale in him, eſpecially in this colde and froſen age of ours, wherein for the moſt parte men had ſo litle hunger and thirſt after the worde: yet he was certeinly perſwaded that thoſe ſuppoſed reuelations of his were nothing els but meere illuſions of Satan, whoſe ſubtilitie he ſhould in anie wiſe beware of, leaſt he were ſeduced and miſleade by him, &c. Whereas, I ſay, his ſpeeces were thus framed, howe doeth Maiſter Sutcliffe and The pretended Conſpiracie handle the matter? Why, euen thus Madame, and I pray you marke it for your learninge, becauſe it may ſerue your La. for a handſome paterne to meaſure all the reſt by. They play Hyſteron proteron with him, that is, they turne the catte into the panne, ſetting the cart before the horſe, bringing in that firſt which ſhould be laſt, and that laſt whiche ſhould be firſt, to wit, That he ſhould wiſely and circumſpectlie take heed he were not miſlead by the ſubtilty of Sathan, &c. But withall (ſay they) the ſaied Maiſter Egerton concluded, that he would be loth to quenche the ſpirit of God in him, or hinder his zeale. And why trowe you was this brought in laſt for a concluſion, which was in deede as the preamble and firſt entrance into his ſpeach? Becauſe otherwiſe, it may be, it would not haue wounded this Renowmed Paraphraſt deepe inough, nor haue ſtucke by his ribbes ſo long. But nowe martialled, as it is, in the rereward and ſo laſt in the eie, It is like enough to leaue the deeper impreſſion and remembraunce in mens breaſts, that certeinlie, this Egerton (though he vſed a little faire floriſhe in the beginning) was yet verie vnwilling that Copinger ſhould deſiſt and giue ouer his courſe, and therefore it was that he would quenche no zeale in him. And howe thinke you, Madame, was not this nimbly and charitably contriued againſt ſo reuerend a Miniſter of the word.

But yet me thinke that which doeth exceede all the reſt in weight of malice, and doeth moſt lay open the very ſting and venime of the heart is this, that Maiſter Sutcliffe will needes make him a miſliker, and, as it were, an envier of her Maieſties Honorable, Princelike, and Roiall apparance in the beginning of the Parliament: A thing that I dare ſweare is farre from his heart, and therefore what ſo euer it ſhall pleaſe Maiſter Sutcliffe to ſaye in this regarde, (yea though he ſhould heerein write againſt him till his eyes were dimme) yet I am perſwaded he ſhall neuer while hee liues, gette anie man of conſcience and iudgement, that knowes the man, to beleeue it: Nay, I durſt, me thinkes, pawne my life vpon it (and ſo I doubt not would many of my betters) that there is no man liuinge vnder the ſunne, that doeth more from his heart deſire the true bleſſedneſſe of her Maieſtie, namelie, that ſhee might bee beloued of God, and highlie honored in th'eies of men, then doeth Maiſter Egerton, as may ſufficientlie appeare, both by his daily teaching and prayers, whereof there are witneſſes enough, though I ſhould be ſilent. Notwithſtandinge all which Maiſter Sutcliffe (as a man that cares not what he ſay, ſo he may be byting) will proue it otherwiſe, you ſhall ſee, and that forſooth out of his owne Letter to his brother Fenne, pag. • 9 9. For doeth he not ſaye there, That ſhee went thither meta polles phantasias, that is, (as he interpretes it) with great ostentation and pompe. Which wordes (ſayeth he) Sainct Paul vſeth condemning the vanitie of Agrippa and Beronice. Wherein, Madame, eyther through his haſt, or through the heate and vnrulineſſe of his paſſions. (for I will neuer attribute it to his want of iudgement) he hath made vs at the leaſt two or three foule vnavoydable ſlippes. For firſte, whereas hee will needes haue the woordes to bee Saint Paules, he muſt giue vs leaue for once (becauſe he is a traueler) to aunſwere him with the ſauf vostre grace Monſieur, Saint Paule, we dare warrant, hath no ſuch woordes: The wordes in deede that he hath there quoted, are Saint Lukes. Who, I take it, was the penner of the ſtorie of th'actes and not Saint Paule. Secondlie, to omitte 〈◊〉 ſlippe of Beronice (who dwelles ſure either in Rome or in Portugale, for in Ieruſalem or in the Scripture there is none ſuch to be founde I beleeue) where he ſayeth the wordes are vſed by Saint Paule in condemnation of the vanitie of Agrippa, by his fauour and vnder correction we denie that, that, we ſay, is but his owne comment and conceite, neither are the woordes, as we thinke, vſed to anie ſuch end as he ſuppoſeth, to wit, to reprooue and reproche the king with, but onely as a bare and plaine declaration and laying open of the trueth of that Roiall pompe and magnificence, whiche is both vſuall and allowable in great Princes and States in their ſolemne aſſemblies. And that this is true, (if poore Maiſter Beza, Iunius, Villerius, Camerarius, and ſuch as they be, were not of late by ſtraunge miſhappe flatlie excommunicated by Maiſter Sutcliffe for their ignorance and want of iudgement) I could eaſilie put him out of doubt. For Maiſter Bezaes woordes vpon the place be theſe: Hic quidem certum est hoc nomine declarari ſpecioſum regiae magnificentia ſplendorem in ſpectantium oculos incurrentem, &c. that is to ſay, Heere it is manifeſt, that in this worde phantasias is layed open vnto vs the beautifull glittering and glorious excellencie of that Royall Magnificence, that doeth flaſhe, as it were, into the eies of the beholders, &c. Further in the marginall note vpon Tremelius, publiſhed, as I thinke, by allowance of the ſtate, this worde phantasias is thus interpreted, id est Regio apparatu, that is, in Princely preparation and furniture, which can in no ſort be taken in ill ſenſe. All which Maiſter Beza ſeemes to fortifie and confirme by th'authoritie and teſtimonie of ſundrie auncient and learned Greeke writters, as namelie, Aristotel, Hippocrates, Poſsidonius. And if this be ſo, Madame, then iudge you, I pray you, who was more to blame he which ſimplie and barelie laies downe the wordes of the ſtorie (which the verie beſt interpreters doe take in good ſenſe) or hee that thus vnconſcionablie wreaſteth and wringeth them to make a man ſo well deſeruing of Gods Church, ſeeme thrice odious and hatefull to the State.

All which conſidered, it ſeemes more then ſtraunge to me, that Sutcliffe ſhould be ſo egle-eieda cenſurer of other mens labours, and in the meane ſeaſon, eitheir thorough th'inflamation of the ſtomacke, or through the heate and vnrulineſſe of his affections, lay him ſelfe open to ſo manie 〈◊〉 palpaple advantages as he doeth. I confeſſe my ſelfe to be no match for him, neither haue I anie purpoſe to buckle with him that way, being as he is, a great deale to hotte and to harde for me, and it may be, much better armed to mainteine an error, then ſuch a one as I to defende a trueth. But yet as a ſtander-by and not as one that hath anie ſkill to handle the weapon my ſelfe, me thinkes I could eaſelie ſpie a farre of, where he might be caught and croſſebiten, if anie man of abilitie and iudgement would vouchſafe to take him in hande. For proofe whereof in the verie firſt leafe of that invectiue preface of his to my L. Anderſon, where he ſo ſtrayneth and ſtriueth to make Maiſter Fenners and Maiſter Cartwrightes diuinite no better then heriſie, You may eaſilie diſcerne (if you pleaſe Madame) howe the maiſter countroller of others, hath manifeſtlie broached vs, a piece of ſtraunge and new-founde diuinitie him ſelfe. All religions (ſayeth hee) teache that the Sonne is borne of the Father, which is the Characteristicall difference of that perſon. Can you tell what to make of this, Madame? If you can not, no more, I beleeue, can hee that coined it. I confeſſe I haue read in my dayes (and it is a parte of my faith ſtill) That the Sonne was bègotten of the Father before all worldes: But borne of the Father (as we in our Engliſhe tongue vnderſtande it) I doe not beleeue is to be founde in anie creede in the world, but onelie in this newe Sutclivian Creede of ours. Further, I can not but muze that 〈◊〉 being a ſcholler, as hee is would euer ſuffer Difference of the Perſon to paſſe the print, without ſome revocation, razure, or correction, ſeeinge it was neuer heard of, I trowe, before nowe that in the Godhead, there ſhould be anie difference of the perſons at all, but onelie a distinction. Sure if one of theſe Puritanes had written thus, we ſhould haue had olde adoo, I beleeue. As to that other newe refined and farre fette phraſe of his of Characteristicall, being ſo pregnant and proper for the place where it is ſette, becauſe I ſee neither diuinitie nor ſenſe in it, nor am able to diſcerne why it ſhould come in ruſteling heere, vnleſſe it be onely for the bare noiſe and ſounde of it, I willinglie leaue it to thoſe that be of a deeper reache then my ſelfe to make ſomewhat of it. But one of the ſpeciall thinges that I would wiſhe your La. and all others to note in Maiſter Sutcliffe is this, that among the writers of our age, you ſhall not lightlie finde a more bolde, peremptorie and reſolute man in the worlde then hee. For proofe whereof, marke I pray you, howe of one of the worthieſt and moſt accompliſhed diuines of our age, and of that conference that for th'exellencie of the woorke, is thought by the learned to be vnmatchable, (as if his worde, or a caſt of his countenance were ſufficient to change the face of the heauens, and to turne light into darkeneſſe) he giueth this ſlight and braſen cenſure, to witte, That it was long forſooth and without effecte. What muſt ſuch men as I looke for at his handes, when ſuch workes as that is and ſuch men as Maiſter Raynolds is, are of no greater accompt and eſtimation in his eyes? But I doo not thinke Madame, that there is anie man in the worlde (if he be not ſmitten with the giddineſſe of the braine) that is of his iudgment concerning that Conference. Neither doo I ſee for mine owne part (if the matters therein handeled with the circumſtances be adviſedlie looked into) howe he could poſſiblie haue bin ſhorter, but he muſt withall haue bene much darker and intricat. As to the litle effecte he ſpeakes of, Ma. Sutcliffe muſt pardon me, I will neuer beleue, that all that euer he hath written or can write while he liues, will euer worke the like effecte in the hartes of men for the confutation of poperie, & the confirmation of the Princes true and lawfull Supremacie, as that one worke alone hath done. But, alas, Madame, howe ſhall we doe nowe? Maiſter Sutcliffe thinkes not ſo, and where be we then? For what ſoeuer he avoucheth true or falſe, right or wrong, blacke or white, It is bound ſtraight (if you marke it) with All Antiquitie, All the Fathers, All Diuinitie: If he ſay it once, there muſt bee no ſtraggering at it, we muſt receyue it foorthwith as an oracle from his mouth, be it neuer ſo ſottiſh: As your Honor may plainlie ſee by this newe Characteriſticall ſentence of his, to witte; That the Sonne was borne of the Father: Which is (ſayeth he) the Characteristicall difference of that perſon. What can be more abſurd and ſenſeles then this? And yet 〈…〉 countenanced and guidoned as it is, with Maiſter Sutcliffes coulers, that is, with All Religion ſaieth it, All Religion ſaith it, It muſt, you ſee, marche on without an encounter, or els there will be no hoe with him.

And yet for his owne ſake I would this were the worſt thing in him, then ſhould neuer, I trowe, ſo many innocent and guiltleſſe haue bene thus vily and iniuriouſſie bee beſprinkled with the gall and vineger of his penne, as haue bene of late to the triumphe and reioycing of th'adverſarie, and to the griefe of thoſe that loue the trueth. And ſurelie, Madame, when I lay before me this deadly ſting and bloudie minded drift of Maiſter Sutcliffes (for I can call it no better) in that he would ſo faine haue Maiſter Cart. and Maiſter Egerton, with ſo manie woorthie men, to be traitours & conſpiratours with Hacket, and Maiſter Vdall (for the pure loue he beares him) honored with the gibbet, I could, me thinkes, in 〈◊〉 regard (if I had anie acquaintance with him) finde in my harte to befriende him a little with my poore adviſe, if I thought hee would take it well at my handes, to witte, That ſeeing the Revenger of th'innocent and afflicted is mightie, and able, as he knowes, to grinde their oppreſſors and backbitors into pouder, he would (for all this huffing and heate of diſtemperature) at length yet bethinke him ſelfe, and beware howe he goes on anie further in his vnchriſtianlike veine of bytinge and bitterneſſe, eſpeciallie againſt ſuch men whom their greateſt adverſaries (if they haue not quite abandoned all modeſtie and ſhamefaſtneſſe) doe yet ſometimes reverentlie accoumpt of: as may appeare by the late politicke treatiſe of Mai. Hookers, who (though hee bee aſmuch diſtaſted with the Diſcipline, and, for anie thing I ſee, as ſtronglie bewitched, and euerie way as deepelie intereſſed in the caſe of the Hierarchie, as Maiſter Sutc.) doeth yet in wordes at leaſt (and I hope from his hearte) vouchſafe to honor them and bebleſſe them with manie reuerent and brotherlie tearmes, as Right well affected, and most religiouſlie inclined mindes, and ſuch like: And yet me thinkes, to ſpeake indifferentlie, they ſhould not bee verie well affected neither if they ſhould be as Maiſter Sutcliffe would haue them, that is, guiltie of anie practiſe or conſpiracie againſt her Maieſtie. Wherevpon, if I might, I would gladlie knowe for my learning, what point of Coſmographie Maiſter Sutcliffe holdes this to bee, namelie, to preſſe men ſo egerly (as he doeth) to the defence of the cauſe, aſking them whether they be quite ſpent, and haue nothing to ſay, but muſt be faine (poore men) to ſende ouer to Geneua for helpe, and in the meane ſeaſon by the verdure and venime of his penne to drawe, as it were, a kinde of endightment of treaſon and conſpiracie againſt them, and ſo to put them to the iumpe and defence of their liues. A good round readie way to ſilence and refute men, I trowe: As if it were wiſedome or godlie policie for a State to ſuffer traitours and conſpiratours eyther to write bookes, or defend anie thing by diſputation: Yet me thinkes, it were much fairer play and an evener courſe, a great deale, to cleare them of treaſon firſte, and then to tender them the chalendge and diſputation afterwardes, then thus to throw out the gauntlet and chartell of defiance with one hande, and to ſhake the halter and ſhewe the hatchet with th'other, or rather in plaine tearmes to doo what in him lieth to cut in ſunder their windpipe firſt, and then to aſke them why they whoppe not or lewre not afterward.

For this cauſe if I thought there were anie man to be founde in this age, ſo ſober and well qualified, that might heerein be a director to a man of Maiſter Sutcliffes conſtitution, I would then entreate him, that when hee writes againe, he would make either Maiſter Hooker, or ſome one diſcreete man of his owne ſide, his glaſſe and diall or direction, for the better temperature of his penne, beinge enough and enough, euen in conſcience (if not more then enough) that he hath thus runne him ſelfe out of breath allreadie: and vnleſſe hee ſhould burne a newe the temple of Diana, I doe not ſee howe hee can make him ſelfe more famous then he hath done by this newe emblaſure of his. In which regard it is ſure to ſomebody, I trowe, that Maiſter Hooker writes, whē he ſo ſolemnely adviſeth & admoniſheth men, To lay aſide the gall of that bitterneſſe wherein their mindes haue hitherto ouer abounded, and with meekneſſe to ſeeke the trueth, &c. Yea and it ſeemeth by the whole courſe of his booke, that there is no man in the worlde (if we may beleue him) more out of loue with an envenomed penne, which is the diſcrier of the poiſon of the heart, then he. And therfore if in this good counſell of his, he did not ſpeciallie and particularlie, and as it were, by name leuell at his brother Sutcliffe aboue others, I muſt needes ſay hee was to harde and partially bounde about th'eies. For though for mine owne part I be ſufficientlie perſwaded, and my heart thoroughlie ſettled in the trueth of the cauſe, notwithſtanding a whole librarie of bookes ſhould be written againſt it (and the more that is written in that kinde, and the more diſgraces that are thus maliciouſlie diſgorged out againſt the defendours thereof, the more I am confirmed) yet dare I paſſe this promiſe to Maiſter Hooker, or to any man living of his complexion, that if among all thoſe that haue hitherto ſued for reformation, he can picke me out but one that is comparable to Maiſter Sutcliffe, in that ſea of bitterneſſe, and ouerflowing of the gall he ſpeakes of, I will forth with yeeld him the bucklers, and paſſe him my recantation vnder ſeale. So 〈◊〉 ſhall be ſure to ſay that which I beleeue Maiſter Sutcliffe will neuer be able to ſay, 〈◊〉 , that hee hath wonne one Diſciplinarian to the faith of the Hierarchie. All which conſidered, I could wiſh that Maiſter Sutcliffe would ſomething recall him ſelfe while he hath time and ſpace, and in remorſe of that which is paſt, ſtrike his hande vpon his breaſt, to ſome bluſſhinge and repentance (if it might be) before the day of his viſitation, remembring that one of the ſpeciall things that the holy ghoſt marketh out as abhorred of the Lorde, is, A proude heart, a lying tongue, and handes that are ſwifte to ſheade innocent bloud.

I come nowe againe to Maiſter Copinger, who after hee had thus written vnto me, and I had thus anſwered him as before is ſet downe, found meanes to ſteale vpon me once more at my lodging, preſſing me very earneſtlie to be acquainted with that man (meaning Hacket) whom he had before ſo highlie commended vnto me, redoublinge his ſpeaches loading me with a newe ſupplie of his prayſes, eſpeciallie of his gift in prayer beyond all that euer he heard. He tolde me that he was nowe in the towne, and that hee would bring me to him if I would, his lodginge was not farre from Smithfield: I tolde him I was ſo troubled, and in a maner oppreſſed with buſines, that I could not be at anie leiſure, neither could I appoint him anie time, as he would faine haue had me. Well yet (ſayeth he) doe me that fauour as but heare him pray once before you go out of the town. I can not certeinlie promiſe you that neither (ſaied I) but if I be at anie leiſure, and may convenientlie, I will, and ſo we parted.

But heere by the way, I had like to haue forgotten that which of all others is moſt woorthie the remembraunce, namely, his diſcourſe of the firſt greeting and meeting betwixt him & this newe Sainct of his, which, to my remembrance was thus: That he hearing of th'vnfaigned converſion of the man, with the ſimplicitie of his heart, and the rare giftes that God had lent him, being a man vnlearned, did write him a letter to come vp: Which Hacket accompliſhed accordinglie. As ſoone as they mette, after ſome ſalutations, Copinger ſignified vnto him what revelations he had had of late, howe the Lord had ſundrie times appeared vnto him from heauen, but he could gette no man hereabouts to beleeue him, that there was anie ſuch thing in trueth, but that all was a meere illuſion of Sathan. No (ſayeth Hacket) will they not beleeue it? But I 〈◊〉 beleeue it, and will prooue it to them, for I my ſelfe haue had reuelations, and ſtraunge revelations too. Wherevpon I remember Maiſter Copinger glaunced a little at Maiſter Egerton and Maiſter Cart. that they would by no meanes be perſwaded of the trueth of theſe thinges, whereas this ſimple man did at the firſte both conceiue of it, giue credite to it, and was readie by his owne experience to iuſtifie it. And this verifies (ſayeth he) that which I tolde you before, that the Lord will not haue this worke brought to paſſe by anie other then by the ſimpleſt and weakeſt. And then he tolde me howe that vpon theſe ſpeaches of Hacket, he burning in deſire to knowe what thoſe revelations of his were, preſſed him verie earneſtlie to tell him. But Hacket, ſeeing him ſo ſharpe ſett, to giue him, as it were, the keener edge, and the greater longing, did purpoſelie (as it ſhould ſeeme) keepe him faſting, and helde of telling him, that there was a time for all things, he had not nowe long to ſtaye in the towne, but he ſhould knowe more ſhortlie, for the preſent let this ſuffiſe him, That there were manie ſtrange practiſes and wonderfull treaſons a brewing against the Queene.

Heerevpon it was that Copinger, after Hacket was gone downe into the Countrie, wrote thoſe ſame letters that I before mentioned, to witte, vnto her Maieſtie, the Counteſſe of Warwicke, and my L. Treaſurer, from whom hauing receyued that anſwere that I haue heere ſet downe, namelie, That he ſhould bring with him ſome grounded matter to worke vpon, he writes me againe in all poſt haſte to his newe prophet, willing him to come vp, with all poſſible ſpeede, for he had broken the yee, forſooth, nowe was the time or neuer. Wherevpon Haket came vp, and was by his meanes (as he tolde me) brought before my Lo. Treaſurer. In whoſe preſence he ſo behaued him ſelfe, falling flatte on his face, groueling, groaning, and foming at the mouth, that my L. ſeeing him, ſhould ſay: What hath Copinger brought me, a mad man heere? My Lord (ſaied he) thought he had bin madde, whereas he, no doubt, was inwardlie raviſhed in ſoule, and rapt vp into the third heauen as Paul was: whereat ſmiling w •• h my ſelfe, I aſked him what became in the meane ſeaſon of all thoſe great treaſons and practiſes that were thus extraordinarilie revealed vnto Hacket, and he vpon Hackets worde, had thus ventured to make knowne to thoſe great perſonages. I looked (ſaied I) that vpon this appearaunce before my Lo. Treaſurer, we ſhould haue heard newes of them. He tolde me, that if they could haue obteyned that they hoped for, namelie a warrant & commiſſion to ſearch and bolt out the trueth of thinges, we ſhould haue hearde more ere this, being perſwaded in his ſoule, that it would haue fallen out, to haue bene one of the beſt ſeruices that euer was vndertaken for the Lande. Wherevpon when I told him that it ſeemed ſtrange vnto me, that a man ſhould take in hande to waken th'eares of great Counſellours with I knowe not what noiſe of complottes & conſpiracies firſt, and then to ſue for a commiſſion to enquire afterwardes: He choked me ſtraight with his old cōmon place of Extraordinarie, Extraordinarie, telling me that we were not to draw preſidents of thoſe things wherof there was no rule: whervnto I replied, that though their ſuppoſed revelations were (as they ſaied) Extraordinary, yet the cōmiſſion to enquire, that they would ſo faine haue had, was Ordinarie: and therfore I muſed that ſuch extraordinarie men as they, would flie to ſuch common and ordinarie helpes. Well (ſaieth he) it may be you ſhall heare more when the time comes. And ſo he departed.

After this, hauing bene to ſeeke Maiſter D. Chippingdale, Copinger meetes me by chaunce in Pawles Chaine, and taking me by the arme, whiſpered me in th'eare, tellinge me that the man he ſpake to me of, was nowe harde by, remoued from his olde lodging into Knightrider ſtreete. I tolde him I had much buſineſſe, he ſayed I ſhould not ſtay, but onely ſee the man, & iudge of his gifte in prayer, if I would, which he knewe I would admire. Vpon his importunacie (I ſpeake it not Madame, in anie great praiſe of my ſelf, becauſe hauing ſuch warning as I had, I might haue bene better adviſed) yet thinking it ſtrange that a man, not able to reade, ſhould haue ſuch an extraordinarie gifte as he ſpake of (though vpon the former taſte of Maiſter Copingers poore iudgement, I did partlie feare before hande, what I ſhould finde) I went, I confeſſe, with him. And this was the firſt & the laſt time that euer I ſawe Hacket in my life. And to ſpeak the trueth, this verie once was enough to diſtaſte anie man of neuer ſo meane iudgement, I beleeue, vnleſſe he were bewitched, becauſe the verie puffing and ſweilinge of his face, the ſtaring and gogling of his eyes, with his gahſtlie countenance, did, me thought, ſufficientlie decipher out vnto me, what was in the man, at the firſt ſight. And heere alſo at this time I founde Arthington, whom to my remembrance I neuer ſawe aboue once before in my life. But conference I neuer had anie with him, as hee him ſelfe beſt knowes, who is yet liuing to witneſſe whether I lie or no. When I was come vp to the chamber, Copinger tolde Hacket that the Gentleman could not ſtay, and therefore deſired him he might be partaker of his prayer. Wherevppon Hacket clapping to the dore, fell without anie more adoe, to his prayer, euen (for all the worlde) as a man ſhould haue fallen to his ſworde and buckler.

But if I ſhall not lie vnto you, Madame, ſuch a piece of prayers did no man liuing, I thinke, euer heare. It was much like the wildegooſe chaſe, neither heade nor foote, rime nor reaſon. In ſteede of deſiring God to be preſent with vs, he deſired him to be abſent from vs, and ſo, for anie thinge I knowe, he was, vnleſſe it were in his hande of iudgement to puniſhe vs: for concerning anie bleſſing to befall vs, ſure I am, he was not preſent with vs, at that time. Many ſtrange ſtoppes and pawſes he had in his prayer • , and that a preatie while togither, ſaying nothing but onelie groaned & murmured to him ſelfe, and then he would ſuddainlie burſt out into ſome paſſionate outcrie and exclamation againſt thoſe wicked Hamans and Traytours to God and the Queene, for that was a great woord with him. As to his maner and geſture, it was, me thought, full as ſtrange as the prayer it ſelf, ſpeaking ſometimes in a kinde of lowe and baſe voice, and ſometimes againe in ſo high a voice, that I thinke he might eaſelie haue bene heard into the ſtreetes: yet were the moſt of his wordes vttered with much earneſtnes and fervencie, with puffinges and bearinges in a kinde of ſnatching manner, as if he had bene halfe vvindleſſe, and out of breath. And howſoeuer other men iudge of him, I muſt confeſſe I haue liued to ſee him a kinde of prophet in deede in the right ſucceſſe and event that his prayer had. For as execrations and imprecations were vſuall with him, ſo I remember this ſweete ſentence among the reſt, O Lorde thou knowest, thou hast revealed ſundrie thinges to me, which thou hast kept backe from the mightie enes of the worlde, and if this be not true, let thy vengeance and viſible confuſion fall vpon me. This I ſay, I expreſlie noted. And hauinge liued to ſee that I haue done, namely, ſuch a ſenſible hande of God vpon him, in giuing him ouer to ende his dayes in that moſt ſhamefull and deſperate manner as he did, with ſo manie horrible blaſphemies without repentance. Who can denie but that Hacket was a right reader of deſtinies, and concerning him ſelfe a prophet? While he was in his prayer, Copinger and Arthington did beſtowe the moſt of the time in a ſtraunge kinde of ſighing, humming and groaning, & that manie times verie loude. When his prayer was done, which to mee was a great deale to long, vnleſſe it had bene more ſavorie (and to tell you the verie trueth, Madame, I ſate, me thought, vpon thornes, and was not quiet in my ſelfe, till I was out of the chamber, fearing, when I heard him thunder and curſe in that maner, leaſt the floore ſhould haue fallē on our heads) I tolde them I had haſtie buſines, and ſo tooke my leaue & gladd in my heart that I was gone. I remember Hackets laſt wordes to me at my farewell, were theſe, I ſhould heare more ſhortlie, and ſo in deede I did. For the next newes I heard, was, that they were vp in a cart in Cheape-ſide, and ſo were apprehended, and their great Mahomet brought to that end, as all men knowe, and he beſt deſerued.

Now when I was come my way from hearing this man of the rare gift, Maiſter Copinger followed me, and bringing me a little a long the ſtreete, he iogged me on th'elbow, and aſked me in mine eare, what I thought of the mans gifte, & whether he were not an excellent fellowe: I tolde him, I muſed what ſhould moue him to thinke ſo, becauſe I ſawe no order at all in his prayer, but a meere confuſed heape of wordes without ſappe. And then I beganne to enter into ſome particulars with him, as what ſhould be the reaſon, or howe it might be iuſtified, that a man ſhould dare to offer vp his prayers to God without anie acknowledgement of his ſinne and vnworthineſſe, as at that time Hacket neuer did, neither in generall nor in particular. Againe, I aſked him what warrant anie man had to vſe anie of thoſe imprecations and bitter curſſinges of him ſelfe in his prayer, whereof there was neither rule nor warrant in the whole Scripture of God. Vnto all which his aunſwere was ſtill one and the ſame, not vnlike to the reſt of his reſolutions: Oh (ſayeth he) you must conſider it is extraordinarie, extraordinarie: And I am verely perſwaded, Maiſter Throkmorton, that as Iohn Baptist was the fore-runner of our Saviour in the fleaſhe: So this man is the very fore-runner of our Saviour in iudgement. At which wordes of his, I confeſſe, I was ſomething amazed, and looking vpon him (remembring Maiſter Cartwrightes former ſpeaches vnto me) I could not but pitie the man, with this reſolution, neuer to come at him againe, nor anie of his confederates (if I could avoid them) while I liued. And thus parted Maiſter Copinger and I, being the laſt time that euer I ſawe him: who, as farre as I coniecture, returned backe againe at that verie inſtant to Hacket, becauſe I ſawe him bende that way.

Not long after this I went to Enfielde to viſite my couſin Middlemore, that then was verie yll, vnto whom I reported at large the trueth of the whole, as I haue heere ſet downe, and howe at Maiſter Copingers earneſt intreatie I heard Hacket pray, and of the maner of his prayer, &c. And I remember his wordes, and ſhall doo while I liue, to witte, That he feared he would come to ſome ill ende, whiche hee gathered by thoſe bitter curſinges and execrations that were ſo vſuall with him.

Nowe when I came backe againe to London, I founde this ſhort letter at my lodginge, which Ma. Copinger wrote vnto me from Knightrider ſtreete, and which Maiſter Sutcliffe (I thanke him) hath taken the paines to print and reprint, to wit, That much hath bene done ſince they ſawe me, which I would reioyce to heare of, That they deſire conference with mee, That the buſines is the Lords owne, That ſome of the enemies of God beganne to be hottely purſued by Sathan, &c. For ſo was it in my letter, though in their printed copie it be purſued by God, &c. That I receyued ſuch a letter I denie not, but you muſt vnderſtand, Madame, that they had bene preaching in the cart, and were apprehended before this letter came to my handes. But what could I doo withall, if Maiſter Copinger did write thus vnto me? It is knowne he did write letters to other maner of men then I. I confeſſe, hee did wonderfullie ſeeke me, and labour to haue drawne me to the bent of his bowe. And albeit I may truely ſay that his vnſenſible perſwaſions had neuer anie taſte or reliſh in my breaſt, neither did I euer feele ſo much as anie inclination to bee drawne away by him, yet doo I not, nor dare I not attribute the leaſt parte of this reſiſtance to mine own ſtrength, becauſe the Lorde might iuſtlie haue giuen me ouer to a weaker aſſault then this, if it had pleaſed him. But what will Maiſter Sutcliffe make of this? Copinger wrote vnto me twice or thrice. True, I denie it not, and good leaue haue he to make his advantage of it, let him hardlie preſſe it and ſtraine it to th'vttermoſt, it ſhall not offende me. What then? Why then, forſooth he concludeth, that Throk, is not onelie an acceſſarie and a concealer of their treacherous practiſes, but alſo a principall actor in the Pagent, and deepely guiltie of the conſpiracie.

This haulting conſequent I leaue to be refuted by Maiſter Sutcliffe him ſelfe, when he is ſober and not all out ſo diſtempered as it may be he was when he wrote the booke. He knowes well enough it were great pitie that all they that wrote and receyued letters from Copinger, or had anie conference with him, or anie view of Hacket, ſhould forthwith be reputed traitors and conſpirators for that. For the reſt I would Maiſter Sutcliffe knewe, that I holde it not onelie lawfull but euen my bounden dutie to reveale anie practiſe or treaſon intended againſt my Soveraine, and that of conſcience, if there were no lawe to binde me too it but the lawe of God. Of which ſinne, I hope, I may without offence pleade guiltleſſe, not onelie before men, but (for anie thing I knowe) before the tribunall ſeate of Chriſt.

And if probable collections bee in th'eies of indifferent Iudges of as great force for a mans clearing and defence as they are for a mans guiltineſſe and condemnation, then mine innocencie, I hope (though it bee neuer ſo much ſhotte at by the dartes of envenomed mouthes) ſhall yet by Gods aſſiſtance, eſcape vntouched and vnbleamiſhed in the ende.

If anie man ſhould demaunde (ſayeth Arthington) why I did not diſcouer Hackets intended villainous practiſes against the Queene and the State, Arth. •• duct. and repent. pag. 21. ſeeing hee was knowne to bee a ſorcerer, and condemned for high treaſon againſt her Maieſtie truelie, as I meane to be ſaued at the laſt day, both theſe matters were vnknowne to me ſo long as he liued, and to Maiſter Copinger too, as I thinke. Neither was I euer any farther acquainted with anie viſions or ſpeeches touching theſe matters, then as before in ſubſtance is declared, &c. Therefore as on the one ſide, I ſhould deepely offende the Maieſtie of God, if I ſhould conceale any daunger intended againſt her Maieſtie (falling within the compaſſe of my knowledge:) So ſhould I diſpleaſe the Lorde on the other ſide, by ſpeaking more then a trueth of anie: yea were it of the Devill himſelfe, protesting thus much in the preſence of God, that if I were privie to one evill woorde ſpoken againſt her Maieſtie, &c.

This booke of Arthingtons, Madame, hath, wee ſee, th'alowance and approbation of the State: And if hee that was one of the three, naming him ſelfe the prophet of iudgement, ſo manie times converſant with Hacket, aſwell in prayer as in conference, be thus publikelie cleared by his proteſtation, and that taken and accepted of for payement, It goeth harde, me thinkes, that another man, that neuer ſaw Hacket but once in his life, that wrote and laboured to Maiſter Copinger to deſiſt, as one altogither diſtaſted with his courſes, ſhould not haue the ſame libertie to pawne his proteſtation for his defence.

If then Maiſter Sutcliffe, or anie of his humour doo aſke of Iob Throk. why he did nor reueale the treaſons & practiſes of Hacket and his accomplices, he aunſwereth in a worde (and that with proteſtation before the Lorde of heauen and earth) Becauſe he knewe not of anie, neither euer heard ſo much as the least noyſe or ſounde of anie, And that Maiſter Sutcliffe him ſelfe (for anie thing he knowes) was full as guiltie, and euerie way as acceſſarie to thoſe conſpiracies 〈1 page duplicate〉〈1 page duplicate〉 as he.

If it be demanded further, why he did not reueale ſo much as he knew, namelie of their prayers, imprecations, and ſuppoſed revelations? He anſwereth, that the ſame reaſon that moued that honorable Counteſſe to deteine ſtill in her handes Mai. Copingers letter vnto her Maieſtie, without deliuerie, namelie, that there was no grounde of his information, but only his phanſie, moued alſo Throk. not to make the Magiſtrate acquainted with anie of thoſe toyes and fooleries, without ſome better grounde • thinking them altogither vnworthie of their preſence & eares, and fearing (vnleſſe he would haue foreſeene into th'event aforehande) that he had bene liker a great deale (for troubling their Honors with ſuch a headleſſe information) to haue bin rather returned home againe as wiſe as he came, with ſome checke or reproche for his follie, then with anie thanke or rewarde for his paines.

Touching Marten, whatſoeuer it pleaſeth Ma. Sutcliffe to ſay, I hope thoſe that are in Authoritie, & Ma. Sutcliffes betters, are ſufficientlie perſwaded of mine innocencie that way. And ſeeing the gentleman hath giuen him ſelfe a commiſſion to ſpeake his pleaſure of my betters, there is good reaſon that ſo meane a man as I ſhould allow him a litle to ſpeake per Hyperbolen, or licentiâ poetica, as he doeth of Maiſter Cart. when he chargeth him with th'execution of his brother Stubbes hisHe is not ſo much as once named in his will. will, a thing that I haue heard him ſay he neuer dealt in in anie ſorte, in all his life. And I doo the rather beleeue it, in that in one of his bookes he bringeth teſtimonie (as I remember) out of one of th'auncient Fathers, that it is either vnmete or vnlawfull for a Miniſter of the worde, to be ſo much as an Executor, much leſſe that he ſhould be encombred with anie ciuill office. And ſuch another like tale is that of the ſale of his cotaige, and the purchaſe of his three or foure manours: which is ſo apparant a ſlaunder, as I doubt not but he may be convinced by hundreds that are yet aliue, and I thinke fewe of his owne ſide ſo immodeſt to beleeue it. As for my ſelfe and his charge of Martiniſme, if Maiſter Sutcliffe were the man that had neuer tolde vntrueth in his life, I could eaſilie in this caſe (if need were) make ſome advantage of him for my clearing & defence. For though in one of his Queres pag. 202. he lay all vppon me, I thanke him, Theſes, Protestations, Dialogues, & all (and ſo to ſpeake the trueth, he may aſwell all as one) yet in his better moode, when it may be, hee had ſlept better all night, he franklie cleareth me againe, diſburdeninge me of that charge, and letteth not to ſay, pag. 78. that the noble Martin was Iohn Penry, Iohn Vdall, Iohn Field, all Iohns, ſayeth he, as for me he doeth but bring me in at the later ende as a candle holder: and no more in deede I am not, in regard of ſome of thoſe Reuerend men.

But becauſe, Madame, I am to render accompt of my dooings before other manner of men then Maiſter Sutcliffe. Seeing an oth (as th'Apoſtle ſayeth) ought to bee th'ende of all ſtrife, I will for my finall clearing heerein (when ſo euer it ſhall be thought ſo good by the State) willinglie take this oth, as I haue heeretofore offered, to witte, That I am not Martin, I knewe not Martin, And concerning that I ſtande endighted of, I am as cleare as the childe vnborne.

For the reſt, that I liue vnder a moſt gratious Princeſſe and a mercifull gouernement, I were greatlie to blame, if I would not in all humbleneſſe acknowledge: and if I haue not bene thankfull to God for it, my ſinne ſure hath bene the greater. But what Prince and gouernement liueth Maiſter Sutcliffe vnder, trowe you? If it be the ſame that I liue vnder (and I hope howe farre ſo euer hee hath traueled, he hath none other) then, if I be not deceiued, (vnleſſe hee haue ſome charter of priuiledge that I knowe not of) his band & recognoiſance is full as great as mine, and he as deepely engaged this way as my ſelfe. And if it be true that a reuerend Iudge in this lande did once tell my Lo. Chancelour, that dead is, That the matter of th'indightment that paſſed against Throk. at Warwicke, was in trueth but a friuelous matter, and a thing that hee would eaſelie auoied. And if it be alſo true that the ſaied Lorde Chauncelour (who, if I be not deceiued, was able to ſee as farre into a man as Maiſter Sutcliffe) did ſaye not onelie priuately in his houſe, but euen to her Maieſtie (who cauſed the ſame to bee ſignified vnto me, that I might therein be thankfull vnto my Lorde) and more then that, if the ſaied Lo. Chauncelour did openlie in Parleament (whereof there are yet liuing witneſſes enow) pronoūce, that he knew the ſaied Iob Throkmorton to be an honest man: If all theſe, I ſay, be true, I thinke I may ſafelie conclude in defence of my ſelfe againſt Maiſter Sutcliffe, the Pretended Conſpiracie, and all others, that this ſparinge courſe that hath bene hitherto helde with me, hath rather (to ſpeake the trueth) bene a courſe of Iuſtice, thē a courſe of mercie, And that if all things be rightly conſidered, it is a farre greater mercie & patience to ſuſter Ma. Sutcliffe and ſuch as he is, thus ſhamefully to traduce whole Churches and to ſett his colebrand of infamie vpon the moſt reuerend men that euer wrote, then to ſuffer Iob Throkmorton, to goe in peace. Who ſo long as he hath his owne innocencie and vnguiltineſſe for his clearinge, maketh no doubt (notwithſtanding all this racking, wreaſting and libelling againſt him) but he ſhal haue alwayes the lawes of God and her Maieſtie for his ſufficient ſhelter and defence.

Thus Madame haue I endeuoured my ſelfe in that meaſure I could, to ſatisfie your earneſt requeſt, wherin what other defectes ſo euer there bee, I would bee loth, there ſhould be founde anie vntrueth: if your Honor thinke good to make it knowne abroade to others, I am not againſt it: Seeing my defacing hath bene publike, I hope no man will blame me, if I deſire that my clearing might alſo be publicke. The blotte and bleamiſh of my good name, hath bene, as you ſee, publiklie ſpread and proclaimed, as it were, ouer the whole lande, and my ſelfe no leſſe wounded then in capite, that is in my allegeance to my Prince, and I by this their wreaſting, curtayling, and implying, made little better then a traytor and conſpiratour in th'eies of the worlde. A thing that, if I remember my ſelfe well, ought, no doubt, to humble me and pull me downe (if it were poſſible) to the verie centre of th'earth. In which regarde when I looke backe to the ſinnes of my former life, I muſt needes acknowledge it to be iuſt with God, howe ſo euer it bee vnrighteous with men. I knowe right well, Madame, what the Prophet Dauid did in like caſe, who when he was reviled and railed vppon by Shimei, did neither frette at this nor at that, as commonlie men doo, nor yet looke vppon the perſon or vileneſſe of the man, with any frowning aſpect or revengefull countenance, but on the contrarie did foorthwith caſt his eies 〈◊〉 to heauen, acknowledging it to be the hande of the great God, and to be his dooing: He curſeth, ſayeth he, euen becauſe the Lorde hath bidden him curſe Dauid, &c. I confeſſe, Madame, I ought to be thus affected too, if I were as I ſhould be: But fallinge ſhort of this, my onelie deſire (if it might be) for all the malice I beare to Maiſter Sutcliffe is this, that in this caſe I might be credited, and he not. And I thinke, Madame, I haue reaſon to deſire it. In deede if I came to appeach or accuſe, there were ſome reaſon for a perſon of your place to make a pawſe, and not to be ouerſwift in lendinge an 〈1 page duplicate〉〈1 page duplicate〉 eare vnto me. But comming as I doo, in defence of th'innocent, & to ſaue the guiltleſſe from obloquie & ſclaunder, me thinks I may by all lawes Heathen and Chriſtian (and that without offence) chalenge as it were a day of favourable hearing & credence before mine adverſarie.

I remember the fellons and malefactours ſtanding at the barre, one of the laſt thinges that the Iudge doeth aſke of them before he procede to ſentence is this: What hast thou to ſay for thy ſelfe, why thou mayest not haue iudgement, &c. I could wiſhe Madame, and my humble ſute vnto your Honor, and to all others that ſhall reade theſe printed accuſations againſt me, is, that ye would in this caſe playe ſtill th'vpright Iudges with me, and afoord me but that fauour, which is not denied, you ſee, to verie thieves and felons at the barre, namelie, that yee would not paſſe anie reſolute ſentence of credite or condemnation againſt me, before you haue made enquirie, What Throkmorton can ſaye for him ſelfe, why he may not bee reputed a Traytour and Conſpiratour as well as Hacket. And if I may be but thus charitably dealt with, that is, if none of theſe ſlaunders may make anie impreſſion againſt me in the breaſtes and conceites of men, before I bee duelie and patientlie heard what I can ſay for my ſelfe, aſſure your ſelfe, Madame, I will neuer craue a Pſalme of Miſerere for my deliuerance while I liue. But rather, if I bee aſked what I haue to ſay for my ſelfe, I will by Gods grace, ſaye, euen as I haue ſayed, and is heere alreadie layed downe to your La. in all plaineneſſe, and trueth, which I hope is ſufficient to cleare me in the face of anie righteous Iudge vnder heauen.

Th'iſſue therefore of the whole is this, that when things haue bene neuer ſo much wrenched and writhed, yea and as it were ſtrangelie tenter ſtretched againſt me, to bring me not onely in diſgrace, but in queſtion of my life: Yet if euer it bee prooued, Madame, by anie acte, witneſſe, or recorde vnder the ſunne, that Throk. was anie wayes acceſſarie, weeting, privie or conſenting to anie of thoſe vile practiſes of Hacket, and his accomplices: Nay more, not onelie in this, but in any other action, attempte or conſultation whatſoeuer, if, I ſay, it may be prooued that euer he had anie hande in anie vngodlie practiſe againſt his dreade Souueraigne, from the beginning of the worlde to this daye, he craueth none other fauour, then to be made a publicke ſpectacle, and a notable example of iuſtice to all poſteritie. Nay hee ſayeth further in his owne clearing and defence, that if his verie harte were arraigned in the preſence of God and men, he may ſafelie proteſt, that he is ſo farre from being guiltie of that wherewith he is thus wrongfullie and iniuriouſlie ſlaundered, that he is not privie to him ſelf of ſo much as anie felonious or deloiall thought of her Maieſtie. If he be, let him not die the death of the righteous.

J. Throkmorton.