WEll met Sir, let vs two walke and talke toge­ther (as those two Luk. 24. 14 Disciples of Christ did, that went from Ierusalem to Enimaus) of the thinges which are come to passe in these our daies.

What thinges?

Art thou onely a stranger in England, and hast not knowne the thinges which are come to passe therein in these daies? hast thou not heard of a Scismaticall and vndiscreete companie, that resemble the Anabaptists in Germanie?

I haue read in one of your English writers, that Perkins in his treatise of applying gods word to the cō ­science. page v [...]. there is in England a Scismatical and vndiscreete company, that would s [...]eme to crie out for discipline, their whole talke is of it, and yet they neither knowe it, nor will be reformed by it: that they are ful of pride, thinking thēselues to be ful [Page 2] when they are emptie: to haue al knowledge, when they are ignorant, and had neede to be catechized: that the poyson of Aspes is vnder their lippes, and that they refuse not to speake euill of the blessed seruants of God. Are these they that resemble our Anabaptists?

Yes, if you please to relate the opinions, qualities, and practises of your Anabaptists, you shall see plainely, that our Puritanes doe shake hands with them.

I will with all my heart.

Then begin when you will.

The 1. sem­blance. A Vide Sleidan libe 4, & 6. Bout sixe yeares after that Martin Luther began to preach the Gospel, the Deuil (to disturbe this worke) stirred vp certaine rash-pates and giddy-headed preachers, that misliked not onely the Doctrine of the Pope, but of Luther also.

When Queene Elizabeth (whose memoriall be bles­sed for euer) came to her Crowne, she found the church of Englād (as Inueni late­ritiam, reliqu [...] mar [...]rean [...]. Augustus did the Citie of Rome) of brick, she turned it into marble: she found it in the sands, she set it vppon a Rocke, the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles. Yea, she caused the euerlasting Gospell to be preached throughout al her Realmes & Dominions, and restored both the letter of the Bible to a vulgar lan­guage, and al her people to freedome of conscience, who might not reade it before, but priuily and by stealth, as men eate stolne bread. But the Deuill (to disturbe this worke) stirred vp certaine hot-brained, inconsiderate, & [Page 3] importune Preachers, who neither liked of the Pope, nor of the present estate of the Church, for want of some pu­ritie, as they fancied. Yea no sooner had snee taken the Scepter into her Princely hand, but some of these auda­cious spirits (being then beyond the seas) sent word into England, that their pretended holy see their ex­hortation to England prin­ted at Genena Anno Dom. 1559. discipline ought to be set vp: that all Princes ought to submit themselues vnder the yoake of it, that what Prince soeuer did disanull it, was to bee reputed Gods enemie, and to bee held vnworthy to raigne aboue his people. And not long after some of them returned home and spake very homely against the book of common prayer, and against the rites and ceremonies of the Church of England. But they being then (as they haue beene euer since) ouer matched by the reuerend Fa­thers of our Church, childishly made their complaint to Maister Beza, as appeare [...]h by an Epist. 8. Epistle of his, which he wrote to Doct. Grindal, in the yere of our Lord. 1556 and by an other Epist. 12. Epistle, which hee wrote about a yeare after, where he hath these words: Being saepe multū ­ (que)s. &c. often and great­lye desired of my dearest belooued Bretheren of the Churchof England, that in their miserable estate I would giue them some counsell whereuupon their consciences might rest: (Diuersmen holding diuers opinions) a long time I deferred for diuers waightie causes so to doe: and I protest, that moste willingly I would yet haue been silent, but that I suppose I should greately offend, if I should still r [...]ect their so many petitions, and pittifull gro [...]ings. By this it appeareth, that these groaners disliked not onely the Church of Rome, but the Church of England also. Now let vs see the cause of their dislike?

The 2. sem­blance. The Anabaptists disliked the Church of Germanie, because it was not so perfect, nor serued so fitly for the planting of puritie, as they thought requisite. And for this cause M. Caluin. ad­uers. Anabap. Caluin doth not vnfitly resemble them to [Page 4] the Puritanes in former ages. In times past (saith he) there were two sects of Heretickes, which troubled the Church greatelye: the one sect of them were commonly called Pu­ritanes, the other Donatists. And both of them were in the same errour that these dreamers are in: seeking for a church, wherein there should want nothing that might bee desired.

T. C. Repl. page. 17. sect. 4And in the same error was one T. C. a chiefe founder of the Pnr [...]tan-factiō. I will acquaint you with his words: The Church in the whole and generall gouernment and outward pollicie of it, may be pure and vnspotted. And to this his error doth his Proselytes also incline ouer-farre. For which cause, we may iustly tearme them Anabapti­sticall, proud, and Hypocritical Puritanes, and say vnto them, as Caluin. ad­uers. Anabapte art. 2. Maister Caluin said to the Anabaptists in his time: Cum sub specie studij perfectionis, imperfectionē nul­lā tolerare possumus, aut in corpore, aut in mēbris Ecclesiae: tunc diabolum nos tumefacere superbia, et hipocrisi seàu­cere, moneamur: VVhere as vnder the colour of a desire of perfection, wee can tolerate no imperfection, eyther in the body, or in the members of the Church, then may we bee ad­monished that it is the Deuill which puffeth vs vp with pride, and seduceth vs with Hypocrisie. But to proceede: were there many of these Sectaries in Germanie?

Vide Sleid. Lib. 4. et 6. There were but very few of them at the first, but af­terwards they did grow to such a multitude, as that there arose vp in armes aboue an hundred thousand of them at once, who sacked sundrie townes tn Germany, murthe­red some of the Nobilitie, and committed many other outragious villanies. Yea their factious teachers by their continuall clamours, Philippickes, and inuectiue decla­mations against the enormities (as they supposed) both of the state ecclesiastical & ciuill, had so whetted them on, [Page 5] as that they could not wholy be vanquished, vntill Sleidan lib. 7 paulo p [...]st me­dium. al­moste an hundred thousand of them were slaine by the vnited forces of the Princes of the Empire.

How did they grow to such a multitude?

THey had their priuate conuenticles, where they The 3. sem­blance. linked themselues together, and gaue mutuall faith and oath each of them to sticke to other.

So holde our Sectaries also their conuenticles in pri­uate houses, and in secret corners, which Veritai non [...]rit angulos truth seldome seeketh. For example sake, and for veryfying what I haue said, I will acquaint you with some of them.

It was at a priuate Anno, 1572, conuenticle, where the admonitors agreed, that the admonition (which the late Arch­bishop confuted) should be compiled and offered to the Parliament approaching.

It was at their priuate conuenticles, where they framed the said platforme.

It was at their priuate conuenticles, where they conclu­ded, that their said giddy fancies should bee committed to one of the chiefest of them, to bee corrected against an other Parliament, which Anno, 29, Reg Eliz. then approached.

It was at a priuate In Conuent Anno, 1588 conuenticle, where conference was had againe about this second corrected platforme.

It was at a priuate conuenticle, where the doubts which grew at their former assemblie, were debated.

It was at a priuate conuenticle, where it was concluded ( T. C. being present) that their platforme was an essenti­all forme of discipline: and where they subscribed to the greatest part of it, without any further expecting the Magistrates pleasure.

[Page 6]It was at a priuate In Conuent. Anno. 1588. conuenticle, where those thinges which in their fore-named subscription they expected, were discussed, and reserued to bee examined by certaine breheren in an other assemblie.

It was at a priuate In cantab. Anno. 1599. conuenticle, where T. C. with his adherents, corrected, altered, and amended the said booke of discipline.

It was at a priuate conuenticle, where they did (as the B. examined in the Starr [...]-chamber. examinate remembred) agree amongst themselues, that so many as would, should subscribe to the said booke of discipline

It was the departure from a priuate conuenticle, for the which G. craued pardon G. to F. Touching my departure (saith he) from that holy assembly I craue pardon.

It was at a priuate conuenticle, where L. was to giue notice. L. to F. T▪ C. saith, that at your late being at Wroxall, you determined your next meeting should bee at Warwicke, at the Quarter Sessions: that Tuesday for the humbling of our selues, & the next following to consult of other matters: his request is, that you would giue notice thereof to the Bre­theren of our conference.

It was at a priuate Anno. 1584 conuenticle, which nine of this fa­ction craued to be had about certaine matters that were to [...]e presented to the Parliament▪ We (say they) haue as yet no new matters to performe vnto you, but as sonne as we haue concluded any thing: wee will foorthwith send vnto you the same and others.

It was at a priuate See the [...]ur­uey. Cap. 4. conuenticle, where these questions were propounded to be determined, viz:

• 1. Whether there ought to be Doctors in euery Church?
• 2. Whether the Doctors may administer the Sacra­ment?
• 3. Whether there ought to be women Deacons in euery reformed Church?
• 4. Whether the Presbytery bee not described too gene­rally, and very imperfectly?
• [Page 7]5. Whether suspension may bee prooued to be a censure of the Church?
• 6. Whether the Elders ought not to bee perpetuall, as the pastors are?
• 7. Whether men must stand to the sentence of the greatest part of the Consistorie?
• 8. Whether Mariages and Spousals, and things concer­ning them, doe belong to the Ministers?
• 9. Whether there should be sureties in baptisme?
• 10. Whether there ought to be no restraining from, or no­ting of such a one, as for disobedience to the consistories Ad­monition, is in the way of excommunication?

It was at a priuate conuenticle, where T. S. one of this cousening crew requested, that this doubt might be resol­ued, viz: Whether he himselfe (being greatly indebted, and hauing not sufficient to discharge the same) should pay his Godly creditours first, or his prophane?

It was at a priuate Anno. 1586 conuenticle, where P. craued F. to mooue another such like question, and his wordes were these: Mooue T. C. and the other our reuerend Bretheren, to deliuer their iudgements, wether all laying out of haire be forbidden to all women: especially at their repaire to the pub­lique meetings of the Church?

It was at a priuate Anno. 1587. conuenticle, where it was questioned Whether it were in any respect tolerable for women that pro­fes Religiō & the reformation, to weare doublets: little hats with feathers, great gownes after the Frēch and outlandis [...] fashion: great Ruffes, & haire frisled, or set out vpon wyer?

Yea, there was a priuate conuenticle, or an assembly of three Ministers, appointed out of Essex, Cambridgeshire, and Norfolk, to meete the 8. of May, 1582. at Cockefield, there to confer of the Communion Booke, what might be tollerated, and what necessarily to be refused, in euerye point of it: apparel, matter, forme, daies, fastings, iniunctions. &c.

But what neede I mention these things that were done in the daies of Queene Elizabeth?

[Page 8]It is moste apparrently known to al mē, that they haue neuer ceased since his Maiesties most happie entrye into this Realme, vntill this day, to meete together in priuate houses, & there to meddle with matters too high for thē. To insist onely in one particular, did not H. I. send a let­ter from Woodstreete in London, Iune. 30. 1603. (& ther­in inclosed the forme, to bee subscribed vnto) to one in Oxford; desiring so many hands therunto, as conuenient­ly he could get? Now where was this platforme framed, which H. I. inclosed in his letter? was it not at a Classical Assemblie? And was not the voice Iaacobs voice, & the hands the hands of Esau?

And thus by their plotting & plodding together, they (being few in number at the first) are growne to such a multitude, as that one of their owne preachers said openly in a Pulpit, he was persawded that there were 10000. of thē in England, & that the number of thē increased daily in e­uery place of al states & degrees. For the proofe hereof, I re­fer you to one of their owne Page 3. & 4 Bookes, entituled, The state of the Church of Englād, laide open in a conference between Diotrephes a Bishop, Tertullus a Papist, Demetrius an V­surer, Pandochus an Inne-keeper, and Paul a Preacher of the word of God. But what neede I send you to the infect­ious writings of factious writers? who knoweth not, that the Puritan-Preachers haue infected all the parts of the Land, & distracted millions of the vulgar sort from their loue & liking of the present state? yea, these their factious leaders haue so set them on fire, as that they are become scalding hot in desire of innouation.

And although our gracious Soueraigne hath continu­ally laboured since his Maiesties entrie into this Realme, vntil this present time, by what meanes he possibly could deuise, to extinguish and quench their raging heate: yet so fierie are many of these factious spirits, as that no liquor will quench their furious flames. But his Maiestie will (I hope) keepe them from kindling againe, least a greater [Page 9] mischiefe doe [...]as [...]e therupon. For as a fire tha [...] i [...] kept downe▪ if it breake for [...]h againe, doth burne more fierec­ly: so these, fiery spirits that haue of late been kept down, if they breake foorth againe, they wil rage more furiously.

But not to digresse any suithe [...] ▪ shew me (I pray you) more at large, how the Anabaptists did spend the in time at their priuate conuenticles?

The 4. sem­blance. THey spent it not in Gluttony and drunkennes; but in fasting, in praying, and in hum [...]ling of themselues: a Vide Bulling. Fol. 11. & 17. And by these their Hypocriticall fastes, they seduced many of the vulgar sorte.

Although extraordinary fasts, had alwaies their [...]ma­nation from publique persons, as appereth by these places of Scripture: Num. 10. 8. Iud. 20. 2. 26. 1. Reg. 21. 8. 2. Chron. 20. 3. 1. Sam. 7. 6. Ezra. 8. 21. Esther. 4. 16. Though the keeping of them without the knowledge & authorizement of the Magistrate, bee a minishing of his authoritie, by preuenting his decree, and controuling (as it were) his gouernment; though it be a preiudice against him, eyther that he dooth not know the conueniencie & necessity of extraordinarye humbling of mens soules, or that hee is too slack and ouer-colde in Religion; though it argueth an affectation of singularitie, and giueth sen­tence against all the Land besides of negligence in Gods affaires: yet it hath beene an ordinary thing with our Sectaries, to keepe such extraordinary fasts, whereunto the authorizement of the Prince was not had.

They haue often (as a credible man reporteth) runne to Fasts, which were kept with a manifest disobedience to the powers that God hath ordained. His words are these: King vpō Io­nas▪ Lect. 35. In many the daungers of our land, both at home & abroad, many the members and subiects thereof, as if our countrie had no more Orators, and there were none to stand in the gappe but themselues, haue assembled together, eyther in [Page 10] Townes [...], and some time in a priuate [...]use to fast. But if you will not beleeue his repor [...]e, I will shewe you their owne hand writing, and acquaint you with a let­ter which nine of our Sectaries wrote to F. Anno. Dom. 1584. wherein it is thus written: Being perswaded that you and our Bretheren with you, haue determined what course is to bee taken, and vsed for the procuring some good to bee done at the Parliament: wee thought it necessary to write vnto you, that wee might be certified of your pur­poses heerein: whither you minde to bee exercised in prayer and fasting, & vpon what day, or what things else you would wish to be performed, by vs that may stād the church in stead. This also was Hackets practise, as appeareth in a post­script of a Letter to T. C. I will humble my selfe S [...]e the con­spiracie for re­formation▪ Page. 16. (saith he) before his Maiestie in fasting and prayer, & I hope that God will stirre vp some others to ioyne with me in spirit, though fewe or non [...] in person doe, onely one I am assured of.

It is likewise In the consp. Page. 10. reported, that Coppinger requested two of his familiar acquaintance, to f [...]st and pray with him, for the obtaining of a Widd [...]we, to whome hee was a su­ter. This Coppinger (though some say the contrary) was one of the Puritan-faction, as appeareth by these wordes, which are found in a letter which hee wrote to Hacket: Conspir. pag. 23. The zealous Preachers (saith hee, speaking of a certaine factious Ministers that could not digest the orders of the Church) are to bee in the Starre-Chamber to morrow. &c. my selfe (if I can get in) am mooued to be there, and I feare (if sentence with seueritie be giuen) I shall bee forced (in the name of the great and fearefull God of heauen) to protest a­gainst it.

But what neede I make this digression? They them­selues cannot denie but that they haue drawne the people from their worke, called solemne assemblies, and proclai­med fasts without the knowledge and authorizement of the Magistrate. And by these their Fastes (which were indeede plausible in the sight of men) haue they com­mended [Page 11] themselues to the people, we one credit to their faction, and seduced a number.

Yea, but our Sectaries had many other sleights besides this.

What other?

The 5. sem­blance. ASke you mee this question? Is it not recorded in Bulling. ad­uers. Anabap. Lib. 6. cap, 10, [...]t Gualther in 1. Cor. Epist. dedicat. Bookes extant to the view of the world, that they disturbed the Church of Germany, vnder the pretence of reforming it? And thus when they did intend euill, they did pretend good.

So haue our Sectaries also their pretences & cloakes to shadowe their contentions withall: for they pretend the glory of God, & the reformatiō of the church, as appea­reth by a Petitiō, which they lately exhibited to the Kings Maiestie: wherin they tearme thēselues his Maiesties most humble subiects, the Ministers of the Gospel, that desire not a disorderly innouation, but a due and godly reformation.

Loe heere, they presumed to tell his Highnes, that they sought to reforme the church; when indeed they went a­bout to deforme it. But tel me, had your Anabaptists any other sleights?

The 6. sem­blance. YEs, Quia nulla specie illustrio­re seduci pos­sunt miseri Christiani. &c Caluin aduers. Anabapt. because fillye Christians, which with zeale doe follow God, cannot by any other more notable shew be se­duced, then when the word of God is pretended: the Anabap­tists (against whome we write) haue that euermore in their mouthes, and alwaies talke of it.

Hee that did trans-forme himselfe into an Angell of light, being a fiend of darknes, hath also taught our Secta­ries [Page 12] to informe the common people, that the word of God is on their side, it being against them. But heereof we wil speake more afterward. Now let mee intreate you, that if you haue obserued any other policy in your Sectaries, you would vouchsafe to rel [...]te it.

The 7. sem­blance. YEs, Gastius de er­roribus Cata­bapt. I haue obserued with Gastius, that vnder pretence of zeale, they subuert whatsoeuer other men haue builded & with Zuinglius, that Zuinglius in Ecclesiast. whatsoeuer they speake, they speake it of zeale.

Our gracious Soueraigne (whom the Lord tender as the apple of his owne eye) hath obserued the like zeale in our Sectaries, as appeareth by these his words:

See the pro­clamation for the authori­sing of an vni­formitie. At our very first entrie into this Realme, being enter­tained and importuned with the informations of sundry mi­nisters, complayning of the errors, and imperfections of the Church here, aswel in matters of Doctrine, as of Discipline: Although we had no reason to presume that thinges were so farre amisse, as was pretended, because wee had seene the Kingdome vnder that forme of Religion which by law was established in the daies of the late Queene of famous memo­rie, blessed with a peace and prosperitie, both extraordinary and of many yeares continuance (a strong euidence that God was therewith well pleased.) Yet because the importunitie of the complainers was great, their affirmations was vehement, and the zeale wherewith the same did seeme to be accompa­nied, very specious: We were mooued thereby to make it our occasion to discharge that duety which is the chiefest of all Kingly dueties, That is, to settle the affaires of Religion, and the seruice of God before their owne. &c. The 8. sem­blance.

I Haue also obserued with Zuinglius in Elencho cōtra Anabapt. Zuinglius, that it was Me­lancholy and wrath, and not true zeale, which the Ana­baptists [Page 13] made shew of.

I wil not any way preiudice the zeale of alour obstinate Ministers but I must needes tell you this, that in many of them I finde a preposterous, an inconsiderate, and a braine-sicke zeale, or (to vse Zuing. L. de Baptism. Zuinglius his words) satur­ninam quandam & Melancholicā ingeniorum contumaci­am: But let vs leaue this their pretended zeale, and come to some other particulars: had they no other sleights be­sides these that you haue already mencioned?

The 9. sem­blance. YEs, Sleidan. in C [...]m. 5. there was one Thomas Muncer a Preacher, who (as Sleidan and other Germaine-writers reporte) did greately labour both by his conferences in priuate, & by his Sermons in publike, to draw the common people from their liking of the present estate.

It hath likewise beene the practise of our factious prea­chers in their verball Sermons, to speake against the stat [...] ecclesiasticall, the book of common prayer, & the rites & ceremonies of the Church of England. For the proofe heereof I referre you to the very confession of their owne lippes. On Tuesday (saith Anno 1586. one of their owne side) T. C. kept Maister Fens Lecture: the Text, Psalme▪ 122▪ 4. Ʋn­to the end: taking thornes as T [...]emelius doth, and vrging the discipline: the want whereof he affirmed to be the cause, that some friendes for sooke our Church.

And as this is the practise of some of our factious Mini­sters in England: so is it also the practise of the same fa­ction in Scotland. Yea, [...] Page▪ 38. 39. they snapper out grosselye with the truth of their intentions: informing the people, that all Kinges and Princes are naturally enemies to the libertye of the Church: and can neuer patientlye beare the yoake of [Page 14] Christ: with such sound Doctrine fed they their flockes.

The 10. Sē ­blance. THe Anabaptists did not content themselues there­withal; but to the end they might doe y ^• more harme, they published factious Bookes to the view of the world, as may bee gathered by this speech of Maister Zuinglius to the Magistrates in his time: Zuinglius. de Baptism. Si hoc cuiuis hominum impune facere licebit, vt quae priuato suae rationis consilio ad­inuenit, in vulgus spergat, inconsulta, imo resistente etiam v­niuersatotius ecclesiae authoritate, breui plus errorum quam fidelium & Christianorum in ecclesia erit cernere: If it bee lawfull for euery man to publish abroad among the people, those thinges which he hath deuised of his owne head, before he hath consulted with the Church, nay against the autho­ritie of the whole Church: in short time we shall see more er­rours in the Church, then there be faithful men and Christi­ans. And in an other place: Si hoc permittamus, vt capitosus quis (que) & male-feriatus homo, &c. If we suffer e­uery headie & braineles fellow so soone as he hath conceiued any new thing in his minde, to publish it abroad, gather dis­ciples, and make a new sect: in short time we shall haue so many sects & factions, that Christ which scarse with a great paine and labour is brought to vnitie in euery church, should be deuided againe into many parts.

Neyther did our Puritanes therewithall content them­selues; but that their poyson might ranckle the farther, to the disturbance & perrill both of the Church & com­mon-wealth, they haue published a great number of Bookes, which are as fit for the fire as the Bookes of curi­ous Artes, Act. 19. Yea, and they haue also exhorted the common-people to peruse these their sedicious Pam­phlets. I pray you (say they) In a Booke of theirs entitu­led, the state of the church of England. &c. Page, 10. when you come to London, see if you can get these bookes: The Ecclesiastical Discipline: [Page 15] A learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment▪ The Counterpoyson. A Se [...]mon on the 12. to the Romans▪ and Ma [...]ster Cartwights last reply: some of which bookes haue been extant this dozen yeares, and yet are not them an­swered: and you shall there finde that the gouernment of the Church is contrary to the word of God.

But not to speake onely of their Bookes in g [...]nerall, l [...]t vs take a view of the Contents thereof in particular.

Our Sectaries did stuffe their bookes with inuectiues and out-cries, both against the Magistracie and the Mi­nisterie.

TO begin with the Magistracie, they taught (as Mai­ster The 11. sē ­blance. Bulling. ad­uers. Anabap. Fol. 19. Bullinger also recordeth) that the Ci [...]il Magi­strate, hath no authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters: and that hee ought not to meddle in causes of Religion and Faith.

Our Sectaries come not farre behinde them heerein, as appeareth by these their spee [...]hes: T. C. lib. 1. Page. 192 for the making of or­ders and ceremonies in the Church (saith T. C.) they doe (where there is a constituted & ordered Church) pertaine vnto the Ministers of the church, and to the Ecclesiasticall gouernours: and that as they meddle not with the making of ciuill Lawes, and Lawes for the common-wealth: so the ciuill Magistrate hath not to ordaine ceremonies partai­ning to the Church.

T. C, lib, 2, Page, 1 [...]5. And againe, No ciuil Magistrates in councels or assem­blies for Church-matters, can eyther be chiefe moderator, ouer-ruler, Iudge or d [...]t [...]rminer. Admon. 2 No ciuil Magistrate (say the admonitors) hath such authoritie, as that without his consent it should not be lawfull for ecclesiasticall persons, to make any church-order or ceremonie. Admon▪ 1 And againe: To these three ioyntlie, that is, the Ministers, Seniors and D [...]a­cons▪ [Page 16] is the whole regiment of the Church to be committed.

By this you may see, that our Sectaries doe shake hands both with the Anabaptists & the Papists. But albeit these three contrary factions haue vnited & ioyned themselues together, and doe al ioyntly oppugne the Princes autho­ritie in causes [...]cclesiasticall: yet the authoritie of the sa­cred Scriptures, the judgement of the auncient Fath [...]rs, the decisions of auncient Counsels, and the practi [...]e of Christian Princes in the p [...]imatiue Church, are able to se­uer and dis-ioyne all their forces.

To beginne with the Scriptures, they giue sufficient warrant to ciuill Gouernours to ordaine Lawes in Eccle­siastical causes; and doe expressely teach, that 2. Reg, 12, 4, 2, Chro. 19. 4. Ibid [...]m. 30▪ 1 & 34. 3. Iehosaphat, Hezekias and Iosias, did make Lawes for the recalling & excercising of the Seruice of God.

As for the Fathers, they holde it to bee an Oracle for truth, that Aug. Epi. 48 Kinges doe serue Christ, in making lawes for Christ. Yea, Aug. Epi. 50 Rex aliter seruit Domino (saith Saint Augu­stine) quia homo est, aliter quia etiam Rex est. Quia ho­mo est, ei seruit viuendo fideliter: quia vero Rex est, seruit leges iust a praecipientes & contraria prohibentes conuenien­ti vigore sanciendo: A King serueth the Lord one way as he is a man, and an other way as he is a King. As hee is a man, he serueth him by liuing faithfully. As he is a King, he serueth him by making lawes with conuenient vigor, to cō ­maunde that which is right, and forbid the contary.

But not to insist onely vpon Saint Augustins iudge­ment, The Vide Sozo­men. lib. 1. cap 17. Bishops that came to the counsell of Nice, gaue to the Emperour supreame authoritie in making ec­clesiasticall orders; & committed the hearing and deter­mining of their controuersies to his highnesse.

Christian Princes also haue euer exercised this their authoritie. Euseb. lib. 4. [...]e vita con­stant. Constantine called himselfe a Bishoppe out of the Church, and hee made lawes (as Euseb lib. 2. de vita Const▪ Eusebius recordeth) in thinges pertaining to holinesse towards God, & to the appointing of meete thinges for the Church of God. [Page 17] Th [...]odosius his successor tooke the same course. Sozomen. lib 7, 12. Hee made moste seuere Lawes against all those that crossed the streame of Christian Religion. Yea, Vi [...]elib. 1. & 2, Legum Franciae. all Princes and Potentates retained this their prerogatiue vntill the time of Charles the great, and Lodouicus after him. But by what other meanes did your lawlesse Anabaptists op­pugne the Mgistrates authoritie?

OVr Maisterlesse and lawlesse Anabaptists, in pro­cesse The 12. sē ­blance. of time, began to strike at the head of Go­uernment in generall, & would haue framed a bodye of men, like the body of Polyphemus, without his eye; or like the confused Chaos of olde time, when height & depth, light and darkenes, were mingled together: for they at­tempted (as Hemīgius et Bullinger ad­uersus Anaba. Gastius de [...]r­ro [...]ibu [...] cata­baptist. Hemingius, Bullinger and Gastius doe re­corde) a paritie and equalitie of ciuill estates.

The Lord who made two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, the lesser light to rule the night, and who in the beginning established a superioritie in al creatures: his will is, that there should bee a Maisterie and Domi­on in euery order of men: and that paritie in a Christian Common-wealth, should moste carefullye bee shunned, as being the Mother of Anarchy and confusion.

Neuerthelesse our Sectaries also (as heereafter shall be shewed) haue attempted paritie in the Ministrie: and I feare that equalitie of Ministers would pull on equalitye in the other estates. I feare (I say) and that not without cause, for the chiefest amongst them saith flatlie in a book extant to the view of the world, that T. C. page. 144. sect. 1. The gouennment of the Common-wealth, must bee framed according to the gouernment of the Church. From which wordes I reason thus: The gouernment of the Common-wealth must be fra­med [Page 18] according to the gouernment of the Church: but there must be equalitie (by T. C. his confession) in the Church: ergo. But to returne to your Anabaptists; did they thus seeke to ouerthrow your common-weale and state of go­uernment?

YEs, and yet they in words protested, that they ende­uoured The 13. sē ­blance. to take no au [...]horitie frō the ciuil Magistrate, as appeareth by these words of Zuinglius in Ecclesiast. Zuinglius: Though they protest and by oath deme, that they take any authoritie from Magistrates, yet shortly after wee should haue seene it come to passe, that they would haue beene disobedient to all lawes of Magistrates, if once they had increased to that nū ­ber that they might haue trusted to their owne strength.

Our Puritanes will make as solemne protestations as any men can doe, & by oath denye that which your Ana­baptists did; but I protest (to vse his maiesties words) [...], L. 2. page. 42. that ye shal neuer finde with any highlād or border theeues, more lies and vile periuries, then with these phanaticke spirits, & we may well say of them as Zuinglius said of your Anabap­tists: Though they protest, and by oath denie, that they take any authoritie from Magistrates, yet shortly after should we haue seene it come to passe. &c. But I maruaile they would attempt to ouerthrow the Magistracie?

IT is not to be maruelled at, for they sought (as Maister The 14. sē ­blance. Bullinger saith) Bulling. ad­uers. Anabapt. [...]ol. 95. to bee free from all Lawes, and to doe what they listed. Their talke vttereth nothing else (saith Gastius de erroribus Ca­tabapt. Gastius) but libertie in externall thinges. Yea, It was their opinion (as one of your owne H [...]oker of ecclesiastical pollicie. writers hath ob­serued) that a Christian mans libertie is lost: and the soule of man redeemed by Christ, is iniuriously drawne into serui­tude [Page 19] vnder the Yoake of humaine power, if any lawe be now [...] imposed besides, [...]he Gospell of Iesus Christ.

Lawes made without contradiction to positine Lawes in Scriptures, and receiued by a whol [...] Church, are such, as that they which li [...]e within the bosome of that same Church must not thinke it a matter indifferent, eyther to yeild or not to yeild obedience. For (as Maister Perkins in his treatise of conscience. Perkins sai [...]h) wholesome Lawes of men, made of thinges indifferent, so far foorth binde conscience, by vertue of the generall com­maundement of God, which ordaineth the Magistrates au­thority: that whosoeuer shall wittingly and willingly, with a disloyall minde, eyther breake, or omit such Lawes, is guil­tie of sinne before God. Yea, the very lawes of men may af­ter a sort be tearmed the law of God. The Emperours (saith Saint Aug. Epist. 166. lib. [...]. con­tra secundum Gandentii e­pistolam. Augustin) when they commaund good, it is none but Christ who commaundeth by them. Notwithstanding all this, our Puritanes (vpon my knowledge) thinke, that a Christian mans libertie is to liue as hee list, and for this cause some of them haue refused to receiue the Lords sup­per kneeling. &c. They will not (forsooth) haue their soules drawne vnder the yoake of humane power. And a thousand of the Clergy did not long since See their sur­plicatiō to the King▪ groane vnder the burden of humane rites and ceremonies.

Thus you see that our Sectaries thinke it seruitude and an vnsupportable burthen, to submitte their neckes and soules to the yoake of humane obedience in thinges in­different: which (as our Gracious Soueraigne hath well obserued) See the sum of the conference. page. 71 smelleth very ranckly of Anabaptisme: com­paring it vnto the vsage of a Beardlesse Boy, (one Iohn Blacke) who the last conference his Majestye had with the Ministers in Scotland, in December 1602. tolde him that he would hold conformity with his Maiesties Ordinan­ces for matters of Doctrine: but for matters of ceremonie, they were to be left in Christian libertie, vnto euery man, [Page 20] as he receiued more and more light from the illumination of Gods spirit, euen till they goe madde quoth the King, with their owne light: but I will none of that, I will haue one Doctrine and one Discipline, one Religion in substance, and one in ceremanie. But what other thinges haue you obser­ued in these your peeuish and peruerse Scismatickes?

I Haue obserued, that they were of such a peruerse na­ture, The 15. sē ­blance. as that they would not onely take vnto themselues libertie in thinges indifferent, and therein omit their due­tie: Gastius d [...] erroribus ca­tabapt. but they endeauoured to the vtmost of their power, to commit the quite contrary, that so they might crosse the Magistrate.

That which you say was the custome of your Anabap­tists hath beene the custome of Heretickes and Scisma­tickes, in all ages. The Eunomian Heretickes in dishonor of the blessed Trinitie, brought in the laying on of water in baptisme but once, to crosse the custom of the church, which did it thrice: other Heretickes which held the T [...]initie to bee three distinct, not Persons, but natures, abused the cereremonie of three times laying on of water, to the strengthning of their Heresie, and to the crossing of the custome of the Church in their times.

The selfe same thing hath beene practised by our Scismatickes: for some of them haue sent their Seruants to the Plough and Cart, vpon the verye f [...]ast of the Nati­uitie of Christ, to crosse the custome of our Church, which keepeth it holy. Others (as the reuerend Fathers in Oxford were credibly informed) did Oxfords an­swere to the Peti [...]ion. spend the fift of August last in fasting▪ to crosse that authoritie which cō ­maunded them to celebrate it with ioy and thankefulnes for his Maiesties moste strange and wonderfull deliue­rance from the conspira [...]ie of the Earle of Gowrie. King vpon I [...] ­nas▪ [...]ect. 36. And I heard of a nation of m [...]n (saith Doctor King) when their [Page 21] King had intended a feast for the honour of his country, they on the contrary side proclaimed a Fast, as if God had sent them an Embassador of the last iudgement. And I know a societie of men, who in the time of Lent, were wont to eate Flesh-meate seauen daies in the weeke, though out of Lent but fiue daies. I thinke they did it for no other end, but onely to crosse the authoritie of that power which in­ioyneth vs to abstaine from Flesh-meate at that season of the yeare. Thus doe they behaue themselues much like them, vnto whome it was said by Christ in the behalfe of all painefull Apostles and Ministers: Wee haue piped to you, and ye haue not daunced: wee haue mourned to you, & ye haue not wept. To conclude, they will euer be in an ex­treame: for when we Feast, they will Fast, & when wee Fast, they will Feast. But tell mee Sir, did they not also speake euill of them that were in authoritie?

The 16. sē ­blance. YEs, they did (as Zuinglius reporteth) speake euill of the a Zuinglius in [...]lencho contra Anabap. ciuill Magistrate, & if at any time heere prooued thē, then they straight way said, that therefore hee was an ene­mie vnto them, because they did tell him of his faults.

Your Anabaptists come far short of our Sectaries in this point: for many of them haue reposed a great part of their Christian profession & zeale, in the reproaching and odious traducing of them that are in authoritie.

Exhortat. to England. Page 92. They haue exhorted the common people, to repute those Princes that liue not vnder the Yoake of the pre­tended holy Discipline, for Gods enemies: [...]. Page. 39. They haue informed them, That all Kinges and Princes are naturally enemies to the liberties of the Church. Yea, they made com­plaint to his Highnesse, that our late Soueraigne made their yoake greeuous: & that she had laide vpon them an heauie burden of humaine rites and ceremonies. They [Page 22] haue depraued and slaundered not onely the Communiō Booke, but the whole estate of the Church, as it was re­formed by her Maiestie: Yea in her Highnes life time, the state of this Church of England was so depraued beyond the Seas, by these our disciplinairians, as that it hath beene conceiued by Godly men in forraigne Countries, that we haue Gualther e­piscop [...], Eliens. Anno. 1574. No lawes, no good orders, no discipline, but that eue­ry mā may doe what he list. But I pray you tel me, were not your Anabaptists punished for these their vile attempts?

The 17. sē ­blance. YEs, but they greatly compla [...]ned, that Bulling. ad­uers. Anabapt Fol. 11. nothing was v­sed but violence.

So haue our Secta [...]ies also complained to the Kinges Maiesty, that Petition ex­hibited to the Kings Maiesty they haue beene suspended, silenced, dis­graced, and imprisoned for mens traditions.

Well, let vs leaue this their impugning of the Magist­racie, & come to their oppugning of the Ministerie. And let vs beginne with the Vniuersities, because they are the ordinarie meanes to maintaine the Ministerie.

With the Vniuersities? why? I hope they did not op­pose themselues against the fountaines and Wel-springs of good learning.

The 18. sē ­blance. YEs, The Author of the Suruey. cap. 26. your owne writers can te [...]l you, that they wrote very scornefully against the Vniuersitie degrees.

And to tell you the truth, so did our Sectaries too. These words I found in a Manu-script of theirs. Doctors in Theologie (say they) is vnlawfull: It is mans ordinance without t [...] [...]ord of God: it cannot be taken with­out [Page 23] an idle oath▪ it is offenciue to the Church of God: it is a matter of distinction of the mindes of the Ministers: it is one of the swelling titles forbiddin to Ministers: it is a Re­lique of Rome, as are Priestes, Deacons, Archbishoppes: it is in regard of the forme thereof, a manifest abuse of Gods ordinance of his Ministers, after an apish manner, giuing authoritie of preaching: it is an idle name to bee called Doctors, except they haue Schollers and doe teach them &c. But what neede I produce their Manu-scripts? It is See their ad­dition to the first part of the Admon. and T. C. Lib. 2. page 2 [...]. apparent enough in their Bookes extant, that they mislike the degrees of Doctors and Batchelors in Diuinitie.

The 19. sē ­blance. YEa, but our Sectaries misliked not onely degrees in the Vniuersitie, but in the Ministerie also. For the proofe hereof I refer you to the expresse words of Gerlach. in Hyper. Dan. Page. 3. Gerla­chius a learned mā of Tubing. Li [...]et (saith he) titulos, &c. Although thou beholdest with disdaine (as it were from a­boue) the titles & orders, after the fashion of the Hypocrites & Anabaptists: yet with a vaine perswasion of knowledge & foolish arrogancie, whereby thou contemnest our Country­men in respect of thy selfe, and doost challenge especiall knowledge to thee and thy fellowes onely: Plus turg [...]s quam omnes Doctores et Superintendentes nostri: Thou swellest more with pride then all our Doctors and Superin­tendents. And what commeth into thy minde, that thou shouldest cauill at the degrees of Ministers, as though it were not lawfull to ordaine such degrees for the building & gouernment of the Church? Did not God himselfe in the olde Testament, appoint cheefe Priestes and Leuites? and in the New Testament, gaue hee not some Apostles, some E­uangelistes, and some Pastors and Doctors? You see heere that the Anabaptists contemned our Superintendents & beheld with disdaine their Titles and Offices.

The Titles and Offices of Arch-bishoppes, and [Page 24] Bishops, are more auncient and necessarye, then the Titles and Offices of Superintendents are: for the A­postle Peter did (as Clemens hath obserued) appoint in Clemens in Compēdiario Christiana Re­ligion. euery Prouince, one Arch-bishop, whome all other Bishops of the Prouince should obey. And wee reade that Dyonisius Areopagita was Volusus epist ad Nichol. 1. Archbishoppe of A­thens, and appointed thereunto by Saint Paul: that Ti­mothie was Chrysost. in 1. Timoth. 5. Bishoppe of Ephesus: that Titus was Chrysost. in 1. Tit. Bi­shop of Creta: that Saint Iohn Euseb. lib. 3 cap. 23. gouerned the Church in Asia, after his returne from Pathmos that Iames was Euseb. lib. 2. cap. 23. Bi­shoppe of Ierusalem: that Polycarpe was Tertul. de Prescript. Bishoppe of Smirna: that Demetrius was Euseb. lib. 6 cap. 1 Bishoppe of Alexandria: that Saint Cyprian was cyprian. lib 4 Epist. 8. Bishoppe of Carthage: that Saint Gregory was Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 14. Bishop of Pontus: that Saint Chrysostome was Theod. lib. 5. cap. 28. Archbishoppe of Constantinople: that Theodoret was Theod. epist ad Leon. Bishoppe of Cyprus. And in Elutherius his time which was Anno Dom. 180. when this Realme was first conuerted to Christianitie, there was (as Maister Fox Tom. 1. page 146. acknowledgeth) appointed in the same, three Archbi­shoppes and 28. Bishops. All which notwithstanding, the fauourites of the new fangle-faction, would haue (in­stead of Arch-bishoppes) an equalitie of Ministers. If you wi [...] restore the Church (say the Admonitors) to his aun­cient Officers, this you must doe, instead of an Arch-bishoppe or Lord Bishoppe, you must make equalitie of Ministers. Yea, T. C. lib, 2, page. 438. the learnedst of them is not ashamed to write, that Archbishops and Bishoppes are new Ministeries neuer ordained by God.

The 20. sē ­blance. A Although Gerlachius. in Hyper. Dan. page. 30. the Anabaptists pretended the forena­med equalitie, yet they sought Dominion, & labou­red onely to pull the rule from others; that the rule might haue bo [...]e in their owne handes, and that they onelye might haue borne the sway.

That our Puritanes doe the like, I prooue it by the late Archbishops experience. You desire (saith In his desēce of the answere to the Admo­nition, page 459. hee) this equalitie, not because you would not rule (for it is manifest that you seeke it moste ambitiously in your manner) but be­cause you condemne and disdaine to bee ruled, and to bee in subiection. Indeede your meaning is (as I said before) to rule and not to be ruled, to doe what you list in your seuerall cures, without controlement of Prince, Bishoppe, or any other. And therefore pretending equalitie, most disorderly you seek Dominion. I speake that I knowe by experience in some of you. But let vs see what other speeches they deliuered a­gainst your ecclesiasticall Magistrates. The 21. sē ­blance.

VVHat needes so many wordes? Gerlacius in Hyper, Dan. Page. 30. Gerlachius telleth you, that they disdained them, scorned them, & rayled on them.

Yea, but they haue not come neere our Puritanes in this point. I will acquaint you with some of their speeches which they haue belched out against the Reuerend Fa­thers of our Church. They See their Booke inituled Hay yee any worke, page. 14. 15. 20. 21 blush not to say, that Arch­bishoppes and Bishops are superfluous members of the body of Christ: that they maime and deforme his body, making it by that meanes a Monster: that they are vnlawfull, false, and bastardly gouernours of the Church: that they are ordinances of the Deuill: that they are in respect of their places, enemies of God: that they are Petty Popes, pettie An­tichristes, Bishoppes of the Deuill: that the lawes that main­taine Archbishops & Bishops, are no more to be accounted of, then the lawes that maintaine stewes: & that the true church of God ought to haue no more to doe with them & their Si­nagogues, then with the sinagogues of Sathan. But not to interrupt your speech any longer, what was the c [...]use that the Anabaptists railed on your church-gouernors?

The 22. sē-blance. SVrely Bulling. ad­vers. Anabap. Fol. 19. 95. 242. because they endeuoured to bring them to con­formitie by compulsion.

By the orders of our Church, and lawes of the Realme, there is required of our Ministers a subscriptiō to his Ma­jestres lawfull authority in causes Ecclesiasticall, to the Articles of Religion, to the Booke of Common Prayer, and to the orders, Rites & Ceremonies of our Church.

Now because our Church-gouernours do (according to their duetie) depriue those of their liuings, that refuse to subscribe heerunto: The Puritanes doe complaine of rigor, and reuile Gods high Priest, which Saint Act. 23. 5. Paul repented hee had ignorantly done, though that high Priest was an vsurper.

I confesse indeede that they haue yeilded to subscribe to See their pe­tition to the King. the Articles of Religion, and to the Kings suprmacie; but this is not sufficient: for it is a thing too manifest, with what libelling and rayling, the forme of our Seruice, of our Ceremonies, of our apparell &c. hath beene depra­ued and shamefully slaundered by these factious Sprits. They haue blazed and diuulged abroade (as shall heere­after be shewed more at large) that the Communion Booke was culled and picked out of the Popish dunghill, the Masse Booke: that it is Papisticall: that it were better to con­forme our selues in outward thinges to the Turkes, then to the Papists. It behooueth therfore the reuerend Fathers of our Church, to compell them to subscribe, not onely to the Articles of Religion, and to the Kinges supremacy, but to the Communion Booke also, and to the Discipline of our Church.

Neyther ought they to thinke, that they are too rigo­rously dealt withal, if that they be compelled & vrged to shew their conformitie in all thinges; seeing that the same course is taken in all other Churches for the repressing of schisme. To insist onely in one particular, whosoeuer is [Page 27] made Minister at Geneua, he sweareth to keepe Vide leges Geneuens. Fol. 3. all their Ecclesiasticall ordinances. Yea, we reade Vide Bezam in vita Caluin that Maister Caluin procured a generall oath to be taken through out the whole Cittie of Geneua, for the approbation therof. Now why should not our Reuerend Bishops haue as free libertie to doe the like? But tell mee, did not your A­nabaptists require a secret subscription of their followers?

Yes, although they would not yeild their conformitie with vs in obseruing the good lawes and ordinances of our Church: yet priuatlie (as Sleidan. L. 6 Sleidan reporteth) they gaue their mutuall faith, and oath each to other.

The 23. sē ­blance. SO haue our Sectaries also required a secret subscrip­tion vnto such a new forme of Discipline, as T. C. with his adherents (after many meetings, plottings and plod­dings) had deuised. To veryfie what I haue sayd, at a Anno. Dom. 1588. Conuenticle in Couentry they subscribed vnto the pract­ice of the greatest part of their platforme. And at a Anno Dom. 1589. Con­uenticle in Cambridge (where they corrected, altered, a­mended and perfected their Booke of Discipline) they voluntarily agreed amongst themselues, that so many as would, should subscrible to the said Booke. Yea, in their Booke of pretended holy Discipline, it is ordayned, that the Ministers shall admit none to the holy Communion, except they submit themselues to their Discipline.

Thus you see that although our Sectaries refuse to sub­scribe to the good orders of our Church: yet, they them­selues require a subscription, both of the Clergie and the Laytie. But I pray you, what were the thinges which they refused to subscribe vnto? were they matters substantiall, or accidentall and ceremoniall? The 24. sē ­blance.

WHat need you aske me this question? Maister Zuinglius de Baptism. Zuinglius telleth you, that they went about inno­uations [Page 28] of their owne priuate authoritie in those Churches, where the Gospell is [...], and [...] in externall thinges. Zuinglius in Ecclesiast. Againe, he calleth them authors of contentions, and troublers of the Church, because they stroue about ex­ternall matters. Maister Bulling. ad­vers. Anabaps. Bullinger also prooueth them to be contentious, because they troubled and diuided the Church for externall▪ matters: grounding his argument uppon these wordes of Saint Paul: 1. Cor. 11. 16 If any man lust to be contentious, wee haue noe such custome, neyther the Churches of God.

Our, Puritanes likewise dissent from vs in thinges accidentall and ceremoniall: As for example, the Cap, the Surplesse &c. are (as both Peter Martir in Epist. 3. Peter Martir, and Beza in Epist 8. & 12. Theodore Beza doe confesse) adiaphora, that is, things in their owne nature indifferent: and yet neuer-thelesse, wee haue many Ministers in England, that are of so p [...]ruerse a nature, as that they will rather loose their liuinges, and for-sake their callinges, then weare them. But in so doing, what doe they else but make knowne to the world their insolencie and folly? For Whitaker. de Eeclesi, con­trouers. 2. quest. 4 in respons. ad vl­timum Bella­rmini arg. (as Doctor Whitakers speaketh in our behalfe) In rebus adiapho­ris non improbandum esse communem ecclesiae cons [...]etudi­nem concedimus, & eam improbare, insolens & insanum esse dicimus cum Augustino: Wee graunt that the cu­stome of the Church, is not to be disalowed in thinges in­different, yea, wee auouch with Saint Augustin, that it is insol [...]ncy and meere madnesse to [...]isalowe the same. But proceede.

Hauing shewed their dealing with our Arch-ministers: it remayneth that now I come to their practises against our inferiour Ministers, the learned and obedient Clergy of the Church in Germanie.

What did they quarrell with them too?

The 25. sē ­blance. YEs, they bitterly inueighed against them, saying, Bulling. Fol. 1. 11. 18. that they were not ordinarily & lawfully called, because they were not called by the common people.

Our Admonitors say likewise in plaine tearmes, that we Admon. 1. Fol. 1. haue neyther a right Ministerie of God, nor a right gouernment of the Church. And they doe also with your Anabaptistes pretend this to bee a speciall greeuance of theirs: namely, that the common people of euery congre­gation may not elect their owne Ministers. Yea, reade these places, T. C. Lib. 1. page. 35. Lib. 2 page. 121. 122▪ 125. 126. 229. &c of T. C. his writings, and you shal see what a plausible course hee taketh, to winne the fauour of the vulgar sort. He telleth them that they are iniured in ma­ny thinges, and intituleth them to a great interest in sun­dry Church-matters, viz: that they ought to choose their Ministers: that imposition of handes should bee in their names: that the censures of the Church should be executed with the peoples consent, &c. But what other thinges haue you obserued in these your quarelsome Sectaries?

The 26. sē ­blance. THey cried out against beneficed men, and said, that they had Bulling. ad­uers. Anabapt Fol. 18. 102. stipends & laboured not: that they were ven­tris Ministri, Ministers of the belly: and that they could not teach truely, because they had great liuings▪

Soe doe our Sectaries likewise beate the Pulpit, and crye out against Non-refidents, & double beneficed mē, and tell the people, that they are Isai. 56, 10. Ezekiel, 3, 18 I doll Sheyheards, dumbe Dogges, no Ministers: and that they doe fleece, but not feede [Page] their flockes. And this they doe, not to reforme them, (for they speake it vsually behind their backes) but to de­fame them: not to promote the Gospell, but to bring them into hatred with the people, that therby they them­selues may the rather preuaile in their enterprises.

I would not haue you thinke, that I allowe eyther of dumbe and greedy Dogges, which the sacred Ier. 48. 10. Isai. 62. 6. Act. 20. 28. 1. Peter. 5. 2. Scriptures doe disalowe; or of negligent Preachers, whome Concil. chal­cedon. can. 10. concil, Con­stantinopol. can. 24. Gods word also doth condemne; or of Non-residents, whome the conci, Sardi­cens. can. 14. Cannons of councels, the canon. 18. Apost. Cannons of the A­postles, and the Distinct. 39. can. Siquis vul [...] &c. Cannon-lawe doth reproue: but I one­ly dislike their Anabaptisticall maner of Preaching, viz: Their speaking against the sinnes of Magistrates, when there are none in presence▪ and their girding at their fel­lowe-Ministers, when there is not a Minister in their con­gregation besides themselues. This (I take it) is not that right diuiding of the word, which Saint Paul commen­deth to Timothye: this is not that giuing vnto euery one his portion and meat in due-season; which the Minister of the Gospell, as a faithful dispenser, and steward in the Lords house, ought to knowe. But why did your Anabap­tists thus crye out against benificed men?

THe onely thing which they [...]ymed at, was that the Pastors might be expelled, that so they might suc­ceede them. They teach Zuinglins in Ecclesiast. (saith Zuinglius) that such can­not preach the Gospell sincerely, which haue benifices: but their hope is to haue the true Pastors expelled, that they may succeede in their places: and yet they publikely protest, that they seeke for no liuing.

There were a thousand of our Ministers that exhibi­ted a supplication to the Kinges Majestie, and therein craued, that double benificed men should not be suffered to hold, some two, some three benefices with cure.

[Page 31]This their Petition I greatly misliked not: for I am not ignorant, how that it was decreed by the auncient Fa­thers assembled at the Councell of Chalcedon, that noe man should bee ordayned Minister of two seuerall Churches, in two seuerall places. I will giue you thei [...] wordes: Con. chaleed [...]an. 10. Let no man be ordained Minister of two seuerall Churches, in two seuerall Citties: but let him remaine in that, vnto which he was first called. And if for vaine glorie hee shall afterwards goe to a greater Congregation, let him immediately be recalled to his first charge, & in that onely exercise his Ministerie. But if one be called to an other charge, let him simply giue ouer the former, and haue no in­terest in the same.

That which I misliked, was the Anabaptisticall intent of some of them, who (to my knowledge) set their hands to the said Supplication. I am in good hope (said one of them) that double and triple beneficed men shall now by our meanes be remooued, and that others of our fellowe-Mini­sters (he meant his factious fellowes) shall succeede them. But to leaue this particular, did they not seeke to take a­way their good name, as well as their liuinges?

YEs, they cried out against our Ministers in Germanie, The 28. sē ­blance. and said, that they did not themselues those thinges, which they taught vnto others.

So doe our factious Ministers likewise beare the world in hand, that all Ministers besides themselues, See their Pe­tition to the King. doe seeke onely their owne quiet, profit and credit in the world. But what was the cause I pray you, that your Anabaptists did thus reuile, back-bite, and slaunder your Ministers?

SV [...]ely, it was onely because they opposed themselues against them, and their factious proceedings. And [Page 32] this made Zuinglius (being to enter the lists against them) to say thus: Zuinglius de Baptism. Scio quibus conuitijs et quantis furoribus il­lorum hic me exponam: I knowe to what reproaches and to how great rages of theirs I make my selfe subiect. And a­gaine: Although they maruelously slaunder vs, and dayly with new clamours reuile and backe-bite vs, yet will I ne­uer leaue off the defence of the truth, before their contuma­ey be made knowne to all men.

The selfesame cause mooued our Sectaries also to re­uile, backe-bire, and slaunder our Ministers. I will not name the slaunderous reports, the vnchristian taunts and contumelies that Martin Mar-prelate, the Dis­player of men in their colours, Doctor Somes Painter, and other blacke-mouthed Puritanes, haue laden the faith­full Seruants of God with. Take a view onely of T. C. his Bookes, and you shall finde that hee vttereth almost nothing else, but speeches of disdayne and reproach. The especiall grace hee had in writing, was in bitter inuectiues against a Reuerend man, whome hee ought to haue reuereced.

How often doth he report Master Doctor in one In his first reply. book, in contempt eyther of the degree, or of the person? 370. times is the least. And for this very cause doth the said learned Doctor Whit-gift in his pre­face to the Reader. Doctor compare the Puritanes to your A­nabaptists. His wordes are these: Those that be in the Ec­clesiasticall estate (and desirous to keepe the peace of the Church) I haue to adm [...]nish, that they be not discouraged from doing their duties, because of the slaunderous reports, & vnchristian taunts & contumelies, that our vnquiet bre­theren lade them with▪ knowing that it hath been the vsuall practice of all Sectaries and especially of the Anabaptists. But to proceed, to what end did they thus slaunder them?

The 30. sē ­blance. THeir end and porpose in slaundering and reuiling of their bretheren, was ( Zuinglius in Ecclesiast. as Zuinglius testifieth) to winne credit vnto them selues, and to discredit those that set them selues against them.

At the selfe same marke haue our rayling Sectaries aymed. But tell me, why did your Sectaries seeke to winne credit vnto them selues? The 3. 1. sē ­blance.

WHy? Surely, because (as Bulling. ad­uers. Anabapt Bullinger recordeth) they attributed much vnto themselves, and pleased themselues verie well: but other men they condemned, and therfore their mindes were full of pride, and contempt.

Your Anabaptists come not neere our Sectaries in Pride and contempt: for euerie young vpstart doth think himselfe to bee farre wiser, then the grauest man in the land. They did not long When they conferred a­bout the Peti­tion to the Kinges Maiesty. since, single themselues from their fellowe labourers in the Countrye, and thought them not worthy to be acquainted with their enterprises. None (forsooth) but such as were of their Pares cum­paribus facilli­me congregan­tur. owne humor were called to their assemblies, or rather conuēticles. But what do I mention their contempt of their fellow Parish­priestes? They are so full of seditious singularitie, and ouer-weening contempt, as that they contemne the reue­rend Fathers of our Church, and grudge that▪ Bishops are allowed to be of the vpper house of Parliament. The Authour of the Humble motion wisheth, that in Humble mo­tion▪ Page. 52. steed of the Bishops there might be present in the Parliament­house, some wise (they account Bishops fooles) and graue Ministers of especiall giftes and learning, s [...]rted out of all the land &c.

The 32. sē ­blance. YEa, but out Anabaptists were so arrogant, as that they bragged, that they would defend their cause, not one­ly with words, but with the shedding of their bloud also.

So haue our Sectaries too. Certaine of the thinges (say T. C. Reply page. 5▪ sect. vlt. they) which we stand vpon, are such, as that if euery haire of our head were a l [...]fe, we ought to afford them for the de­fence of them.

Your Sectaries (I see) were verie audatious; but yet ours did farre surpasse them.

Wherin I pray you?

The 33. sē ­blance. A Great number of ours assembled themselues toge­ther, and set downe (as Sleidan Lib. 5. Sleidan witnesseth) certaine thinges which they required the Princes and Magistrates of the Prouinces of Germanie to reforme. Did your Secta­ries euer attempt the like?

Yes, to the number of more then a thousand of our Ministers, all groaning as vnder a common burden of humane rites and ceremonies, did not long since humble themselues at his Majesties feet, to be eased and releiued in this behalfe: and set downe likewise (as your Anabaptists did) certaine points, which they required his Majestie to reforme. But to proceed in order, did any of your Mi­nisters joyne with your Anabaptists that were before con­formable to the orders of your Church?

The 34. sē ­blance. YEs, it hapned, that one Bernard Rotman (who be­fore had preached against them) vide Sleidan Lib. 10. fell away from the [Page 35] truth, and began to shew himselfe a fauourer of their op­nions: which thing gaue so great encouragement vnto them, as that they challenged the sound Preachers to dis­putation.

It hapened also amongst vs, that diuers Ministers, who (as they In their Pe­tition to the King. themselues haue confessed) had subscri­bed to the orders of our Church, fell away from their for­mer loue, and liking therof, and joyned with the Puri­tane-faction. But you tell mee, that your Anabaptists did challenge your Preachers to dispute with them: was there any publique disputation graunted them?

NO, and for this cause they greatly complayned and The 35. sē ­blance. cryed out, that the truth was oppressed: that inno­cent and Godly men which would haue had all things re­formed according to the word of God, could not be heard nor haue libertie to speake: and that Maister Zuinglius stopped their mouthes, and defended his cause, not by the word of God, but by the authoritie of the Magistrate.

See their Book intituled the State of the Church of England. Page. 38. So doe our Sectaries likewise crye out, that the Clincke, the Gate-house, the White-lyon, and the Fleete, haue beene our onely arguments, wherby wee haue prooued our cause these many yeares. But I pray you did your Ministers conferre with your Anabaptists? did they vse no meanes to reclaime them?

Yes, although there was no publique disputatiō gran­ted them, yet did they conferre with them from time to time, therby to reclaime them from their errors.

I pray you what kinde of arguments vsed they?

Truely, insteed of sound and sustantiall arguments, they vsed sophisticall fallacies.

I doe thinke that your Anabaptists doe not come neere our Puritanes in this point.

Why doe you not thinke it?

Because our Puritanes doe thinke, that they haue Logicke enough, when they haue read and conned ouer Ramus his Logicke: and so consequently, they often vse fallacies, before euer they be aware. They cannot (for­sooth.) endure to read Aristotles golden Booke de so­phisticis Elanchis.

What? are some of your Students trained vp in Peter Ramus?

Yes, as it was the wisdome of the Dan. 1. 41▪ King of Babylon, to take young Children of Israell, whome hee might teach the learning and tongue of Chaldea rather then their olde men: so it is the wisdome of some Ramisticall Tutors, to season our greene vessels with this liquor of Purita­nisme, that they may keepe the taste thereof while life re­maineth. But not to interrupt your speech, what falla­cies vsed they?

The 36. sē ­blance. THey vsually reasoned ab eo quod est secundum quid, ad [...]d quod est simpliciter.

I must intreate you to expresse your minde more plainely, that I may vnderstand your meaning.

My meaning is this, they vsually reasoned after this manner: vide Bulling. aduers. ana­bap. fol. 9. & 18. Such and such thinges were not in the Apostles dayes: therfore they ought not to be in these dayes.

This fallacie hath been the originall and Wel-spring of many both olde and new schismes: of olde, as of them that called themselues Apostolicos, and of the Aerians: of new, as of the Anabaptists, Brownists, Puritanes, and o­thers. To insist onely in the Puritanes, we must (say Admon. 1. Page. 105 they) haue Surplesses deuised by Pope Ardian: Interrogatories ministred to the Infant: God-fathers and God-mothers brought in by Higinus: holy Fonts inuented by Pope Pius: crossing & such like pieces of popery, which the Church of God in the Apostles time neuer knewe: and therfore they are not to be vsed.

The 37. sē ­blance. OVr Arist. de so­phisticis. E­lench. Lib. 1. cap. 5. Anabaptists vsed an other erronious kinde of reasoning, which Aristotle calleth To en arche aiteisthai: which is, when a man frameth vnto himselfe certaine principles of his owne deuising; grounded ney­ther vpon authoritie, neyther yet vpon substantiall rea­son, and then vpon the same will conclude his purpose.

This fallacie hath also been the foundation of many both olde and new schismes: of olde, as of the Aerians, who forsooke the Church, because therein were some thinges vsed, which Heritickes had abused: of new, as of the Anabaptists, Brownists, Puritanes and others.

To insist againe in the Puritanes onely, they commit this fallacie in vsing these two false Principles: the one, when they say that to be inuented by the late Popes, which was not inuented by them: the other, when they say, that nothing may be vsed in the Church of Christ, which is vsed in the Church of Rome.

[Page 38]To begin with the first, they commit this fallacie, when they say that the Surplesse was deuised by Pope Adrian: for the Godly Fathers of the Church, in the purest estate thereof, haue left it in writing, how that the Ministers in their times did vsually put on white garments, in the exe­cution of diuine Seruice, and in the celebration of the blessed Sacraments. For proofe heereof, I referre you to Saint Chrysost. ad Populum An­tiochē Hom. 6. Chrisostome, to Saint Hieron. Lib. 13. in Ezchiel. 44. et in Lib. 1. aduers. Pelagi­um cap. 9. Ierome, and to the Concil. Car­thaginens. can. 46. Coun­cell of Carthage, at which were present, two hundred fourteene Bishops.

But what do I mention these times? it was vsed in the very dayes of the Apostles, as is aparant by the testimo­nie of Hegesippus, who (as Saint Hierom. de sriptorib. Ecclesiast. Ierome saith) liued neere the Apostles time. His testimony is this: Hegesip. lib. 5. Comment. when Iames, who was sir-named Iustus, went into the Temple, he was Linea non lá­nea veste in duebatur. appareled with a linnen, not with wollen vesture.

Againe, they commit this fallacie, when they say, that God-fathers & God-mothers were brought in by Higinus: for they were in Dyonis. Are­opag. lib. 7. de Ecclesiast. Hie­rarchia. Dyonis. Areopagita his time, who liued in the time of the Apostles; & they haue continued in all pure times since, as apeareth by sundry learned Tertul. ad­uers. Marcionē lib. 3. Idem de praescrip. ad­uers hareticos▪ at in lib. de re­surrectione carnis. Chrysost. in Psal. 14 [...] Cyprian lib. 1. post, 6. August. epist. ad Bo­nifacium et lib. de Rectitud. Catholica conuersationis. Isider. de officij ecclesiast. writers.

They do also commit this fallacie, when they say, that crossing in Baptisme is a piece of Poperie: for it was vsed in the Church of God, within the compasse of three hun­dred yeares after Christ: which was long before the My­sterie of iniquitie bid begin to worke: and hath beene v­sed in the Church of God euer since.

For the justifying of what I haue said, I referre you to the writings of Tertull. de corona miletis et lib. 3. aduersus Marc. [...]. Tertullian, Iustin. Martyr ad Or­thodox quast. 1. 18. Iustine Martyr, Cyprian. epist. [...]6. ad Th [...]barita [...]o [...] et in lib. de vnitate Ecclesiae. Cyprian, [Page 39] Orig. serm. 8. in diuers. et in psal. 38. h [...]. 2. Origen, Gregor. Niz. in oratione ad­uersus eos qui differunt bap­tismum. Gregorie Nizen, Basil. de spi­ritis sancto. cap. 27 Basil, Ambros. in l. de ii [...] qui mist eriis i [...]itiātur. Ambrose, Hierom. in Ezech. [...]. Ieroni, Rabanus lib 4. de [...]ctitut. clericor. cap. 5 Rabanus & Goulart in Cyprianum. Goulart. But what do I cite these Fathers? Dyonis. Are­opag. de eccle­siast. Hierarch cap. de baptis­m [...]. Dionisius Areopagita, who liued in the Apostles time, maketh mention of the crosse in Baptisme.

The Petitioners also committed this fallacie, when they tolde his Majestie that see their Pe­tition to the King. the restraint of Mariage is a Popish Cannon: for it is a Cannon of an auncient Prouin­ciall Synod. Lao­dicen. can. 52. Synode, which was confirmed in the sixt generall Synode held in Trullo.

But to come to their second Principle, they do (I say) commit the fore-named fallacie, in vsing a second false Principle, viz: when they teach, that we may not vse that in our Church, which is vsed in the Church of Rome. How false this their Principle is, I appeale to Caluin in Exid. cap. 23. vers. 24. Caluin Iunius in Academ. Iuius, Peter Martir in an Epistle to H [...]per. Peter Martyr, Gualthe [...] to N. and M. Gualther, and all other writers of note.

Yea, one of their owne principle writers ouer-throw­eth this their common Principle. These are his expresse words: T. C. in his Epist. pr [...]fixed before his second Book. If amongst the filth of their herisses, there may be found any good thing (as it were a graine of good corne in a great deale of darnell) that we willingly receiue, not as theirs, but as the Iewes did the holy Arke from the Phi­listines, whereof they were vniust owners. For heerin it is true that is said: the sheepe must not lay downe her fell, be­cause she seeth the Wolfe cloathed with it. Yea, it may come to passe, that the Synagogue of Sathan, may haue some one thing at some time with more conuenience, then the true and Catholike Church of Christ. Such was the ceremonie of powring water once onely vpon the Child in Baptisme vsed with vs, and in the most reformed Churches: which in some age was vsed by those of the Eunomion heresie.

Loe heere, I haue wounded their Goliah with his owne sword. Let vs goe on.

The 38. sē ­blance. THe Anabaptists vsed a third fallacie, which Anst. de so­phist. Elench. Lib. 1. cap. 5. Aristotle calleth to para (to) to me aition, os aition tithenai, that is, the taking of that for the cause of a thing, which is not the cause. For they reasoned (as both Bulling. ad­uers. Anabap. Bullinger Zuinglius in Ecclesiast. & Zuing­lius doth report) on this manner: your Ministers cannot teach truely, because they haue great liuings.

Our Puritanes haue commited the same fault in sundry places of their writinges: as namely, when they cōdemne Surplesses and other particulars, because (as they say) Admon. pag. 241. sect. 2. they worke discord, and do hinder the preaching of the Gos­pell, when as the apparell is not the cause therof; but it is the sinister affection, the contentious minde, the peruerse and the rebellious nature of man.

Againe, they vse this fallacie, whē they say that Admon. pag. 42. sect. 2 3. Mini­sters do now run, and ride for benefices, and by vnlawfull sute and buying, preuent other suters, because the congregation hath not authoritie to call Ministers: For it is not the fault of the calling, but of the man.

And againe, the Booke of ordring of Ministers and Deacons set forth by this Church of England, requireth, that whosoeuer is to be admitted into the Ministry, should be so tryed both for learning and life, as Saint Paul requi­reth 1 Timoth. 3. and Titus 1. Now the Admō. pag. 36. sect. 1. Puritanes do ascribe the neglect of this dutie to the rule appointed, as if wee should call the Law euill, because some Lawyers in their office doe swa [...] from it.

T. C. also played the Sophister when hee condemned our prescript forme of seruice or Liturgie, T. C. reply. page. 104. sect. 3. because (as he said) it maintayneth an vnpreaching, an [...] and vn­lafwul ministerie, for it is not the prescript forme of seruice that maintayneth vnleraned Ministers, noe more then it is the word of God that engendreth heresies.

But what other fallacie committed your Ana­baptists?

The 39. sē ­blance. THey committed (as you may read in our Germaine writers) an other faulte in reasoning, which Aristotle [...]rist▪ de so­phisticis e­lench▪ lib 1. cap. [...]. calleth sophisma para to [...]pomenon, that is, when eyther there is an erroneous consequence, or els none at all. They did licentiously wring▪ or wrest the Scriptures to serue their owne [...]utne, and quoted many places of Scripture, from which they could inferre nothing by necessarie cons [...]quence.

It hath been the tricke of Heretickes & Schismatikes in all ages, to fill the margents of their Bookes full of plac [...]s of Scripture, that by this meanes they might the more easily deceaue the simple p [...]ople, and make them thinke, their whole Bookes to be Scripture and nothing els but Scripture; wh [...]n as in deed they wrung from the Scripture that s [...]nce, which the wordes themselues would not beare.

To insist onely in our owne Schismatikes, they ney­ther care for maior, minor, nor conclusion, so they saye something. Take a view of their m [...]rgents, & you shall see how vainely they haue painted them with shamefull abusing of the Scriptures.

To prooue that ministring of interrogatories to In­fants is a mocking of God, and a foolish toy▪ they quote, Galat. Admonition 1. page, 192. Sect. 2 6. 7. Be not ye deceiued▪ [...] [...]ocked: for whatsoeuer a man soweth▪ [...] shall he reape.

To prooue [...]h [...] is not in the God-fathers & God­mothers▪ [...]perfor [...]e that which they promise, Ibidem. they quote Rom. 7. 15. [...]allowe not that which I doe: for what I would, that I doe not: but what I hate that doe I. And verse 18. for I knowe, that in mee, that is in my flesh, dwelleeh no good thing: for to will is present with mee: but I finde no meanes to performe that which is good. And vers. 21. I find [Page 42] then by the Lawe, that when I would doe good, e [...]i [...] is pre­sent with me.

To prooue that wee should not receiue the Commu­nion kneeling▪ Admon. [...]ag 182. sect. 1. they qu [...]te, Exod. 20. 5. Thou shalt not bowe downe to them nor▪ worshipe them.

To prooue that Ministers are not [...]yed to any forme of Prayer inuented by man, Admon. pag. 77. sect. 3. they quote, 1. Timo. 1. 2. vnto Timothy my naturall Sonne in the faith, grace, mercy, and peac [...] from God our Father and Christ Iesus our Lord.

To prooue that Arch-bishops &c. and their Offi­ces came out of the Popes shoppe, Admon. pag. 209. they quote▪ Luke 16. 25. But Abraham said, Sonne remember that thou in thy life time receiuedst thy pleasures, and likewise Lazarus paines▪ now therefore is hee comforted and thou art tor­mented.

To prooue that there ought to be an [...]quality of Mini­sters Amon. 1. page. 124. sect. 1. they quote in their Margent, 2. Cor. 10. 7. Looke yee on thinges after the appearance? If any trust in himselfe, that he is Christes, let him consider this againe of himselfe that as he is Christes, euen s [...] [...]re [...]e Christes.

To prooue that Ministers should not weare Cappes, Gownes, &c▪ but that they should bee knowne by their voice, learning and Doctrine, Admon. 1. page, 53. sect. vit▪ they quote▪ Math. 26. 48. Now hee that betrayed him, had giuen them a token, saying: whosoeuer I shall kisse, that is hee, lay holde on him. And verse 73. They that stoode by said vnto Peter, surely thou art also one of thē: for euen thy speech be [...]rayeth thee.

To prooue that tyranous Lordshipe, (as it pleaseth them to call it) cannot stand with Christes King▪dome, In the pre­face of the Ad­monition. they quote, Math. 15. 23. But [...] her not a word. Then came to him his Disciples, [...]d besought him saying: send her away, for the cryeth after vs. And Luke 16. 15. Then he sayd vnto them, ye are they which iustifie your selues before men, but God knoweth your hearts.

To prooue that e [...]ry congregation ha [...] their De [...] ­cons, [Page 43] Admon. pag. 114. sect. 2. they quote Iohn 13. 27. And after the soppe▪ Sa­than entred into him. Then said Iesus vnto him, That thou doest, doe quickely.

To prooue that ciuill offices, joyned to the Ecclesiasti­call, are against the word of God, Admon. pag. 216. sect. 1. they quote. Luke. 9. 60. 61. And Iesus said vnto him, let the dead bury the dead &c. And 1. Timoth. 6. 11. But thou ô man of God, flee these thinges, and followe after righteousnesse, Godlinesse, faith, loue, patience and meekenesse.

To prooue that no ceremonie, order, discipline, or kinde of gouernement may bee in the Church of God, which the Scripture hath not in particular set downe, T. C. T. C. page 41. sect. 1. quoteth 1, Cor▪ 10. 31. Whether ye eate or drink▪ or whatsoeuer ye doe, doe all to the glory of God. with these & a thousād such like places, are their Margents pestred.

Now r [...]duce euery one of these into a Syllogisticall forme, and you shall see many a rediculous sequele.

I see alreadie how ridiculous they are▪

Well then, proceed to an other matter.

The 40. sē ­blance. OVr A [...]tists vsed an other falla [...]ie, which Arist. de So­phist. Elench. lib. 1. cap. 5. A­ristotle calleth agn [...]antou elegchou▪ which is com­mitted, when eyther the st [...]te of the question is changed, or when the aduersarie, i [...] opposing, doth violate the lawe of oposition, and disput [...]th not ad idem. To make this plaine, Zuinglius tooke vpon him to defend, that some externall things, may be brought into the Church, which are not expressed in the Scriptures▪ and they replyed, as if he had said, that some thinges necessary to saluation, might haue been brought into the Church, which are not in the Scriptures▪ For they alleag [...]d, Math. 1 [...]. 19. To [Page 44] which reply of theirs▪ Zuingli [...]s thus answereth▪ Zuingliu [...] d [...] Baptism [...]. I speake not as you say me to speake, I speake onely of externall and in­different thinges, wherof there be many which are neyther commaunded nor forbiddē ▪ by any expresse word of God &c. and againe: for this that w [...] speake of▪ is not necessarie vnto saluation, but it is externall &c.

T. C. pag. 79. sect. vlt. T. C. objected vnto the late Arch-bishope the selfe same text for the selfe same purpose: to which ob­jection of his, the fore-named reuerend man answereth with Zuinglius.

The Admon. pag. 30. sect. 2. admonitors also to prooue that those thinges onely are to be placed in Gods Church, which God him­selfe in his word commaundeth, do quote, De [...]t. 4. 2. Ye shall put nothing to the word which I comma [...]d you, & [...]. And Deut. 12. 32. Whatsoeuer I commaund you, take heed ye doe it: thou shalt put nothing thereto.

Thus you see, that wheras we defend that matters of order, gouernement and Discipline &c. may bee vsed in the Church, though they be not laide downe in the Scrip­tures: they aleadge places against vs, which onely prooue that we must not, in matters of saluation adde any thing, which may not bee gathered from the sacred Scriptures. But what other false arguments vsed they?

The 41. sē ­blance. THey drewe arguments from the authori [...]e of the Scripture negatiuely: for which cause Zuinglius in Elencho. Zuinglius thus reprooueth them: You can finde no hole to escape at: for you foolishly reason negati [...]ely &c. And againe, you make the negatiue onely your foundation.

A testimoni [...] diuino valet argumentum af­firmat [...]é & negatiuè Kec­k [...]em. lib. 3. System. Logic▪ cap. 16. A testimonie drawne from the authoritie of the Scrip­tures, holdeth (saith a late learned▪ L [...]itian) both af­firmatiuely [Page 45] and negatiuely; but this maxime of his must be thus limited: tenet in rebus subst antialibus, non in accidentalibus, that is, an argument drawne from the au­thoritie of the Scriptures, in reasoning about things sub­stantiall, or matters of saluation and damnation, holdeth both affirmatiuely and negatiuely: as for example, God hath not layd downe this or that thing in scripture, as a mat­ter of saluation: therfore it is not a matter of saluation. But an argument drawne from the authority of the Scrip­tures negatiuely, in reasoning about thinges accidentall or ceremoniall, is of noe force. And yet our Sectaries haue commonly vsed this kind of reasoning: for which cause our late In his de­fence of the an­swere to the Admon. page 590. 591. reuerend Arch-bishop compared them to your Anabaptists. But to leaue this particular, what other so­phistrie vsed your Anabaptists?

What other? Truely, they immitated the Deuill that graund Sophister.

The Deuill? Wherin I pray you?

When the Deuill had taken vp Christ into the holy Cittie, and had set him on a pinacle of the Temple, he be­gan to dispute with him, saying: Math. 4▪5. If thou be the sonne of God, cast thy selfe downe: for it is written, that he will giue his Angels charge ouer thee, and with their hands they shal lift thee vp, least at any time thou shouldest dash thy foote against a stone.

Loe, heere the Deuill tooke vpon him to prooue, that Christ could not possibly breake his neck, though hee should throw himselfe head-long from the pinacle of the Temple. The place which he aleaged for the proofe ther­of [Page 46] is that place of th [...] Psalme, Hee shall giue his Angels Psal. 91. 11 charge ouer thee to keepe thee in all thy waies; that is, so long as thou keepest thy selfe within the wayes of thy cal­ling, so long shall my Angels preserue thee.

Now compare these two places together, and you shal see, that the Deuill quoted the Scriptures very Sophisti­cally and subtilly: alleadging onely so much as serued for his turne, and leauing out that which made against him, viz▪ to keepe thee in all thy waies.

And did your Anabaptists the like?

The 42. sē ­blance. YEs, as appeareth by this speech of Zuinglius de Baptisme. Zuinglius: They haue not thing else in their mouthes, but onely this: docete et baptizate, teach and baptize. Behold (say they) the com­mandement of Christ. In the meane time they doe not mark▪ nay indeede they will not marke, that the same thing which they so much crye vppon, doctrine, is afterward also set after, when as he saith, docentes eos seruare. &c. And againe: we haue the word of God more cleere and plaine then yours, which is, teaching you to obserue all thinges which I haue commaunded you, and th [...]se words are put after and not be­fore Baptisme.

Our Admonitors vsed the same Diabolicall Sophist­rye, for to prooue that there ought to bee a paritie of Mi­nisters, Admō. pag [...] 124 sect. 1. they doe quote 2. Cor. 10, 7. but they con­ceale the words immediately following, which bee these: For though I should boast some-what more of our autho­ritie &c. I should haue no shame. Our of these wordes, which they in their quotation doe leaue out, Maister Cal­uin gathereth the quite contrary. caluin i [...] Cor. 10. 7▪ It was for modestye (saith hee) that he ioyned himselfe to their number, whome he did farre excell: and yet hee would not be so modest, but [Page 47] that he would keepe his authoritie safe▪ therefore he addeth that he spak [...] lesse then of right hee might haue done. For he was not of the common sorte of Ministers, but one of the chiefe among the Apostles: and therefore hee saith, if I boast more, I neede not be ashamed, for I haue a good cause. And againe: although the selfe same office bee common to all the Ministers of the word▪ yet there be degrees of honour.

But what other false quotations of theirs haue you ob­serued?

The 43. sē ­blance. OVr Anabaptists, for the establishing of their kinde of discipline by excommunication, quoted Mat. 18. 15. for which cause Maister Caluin reprooueth them, say­ing: Caluin. ad­uers. Anabapt. but they are againe deceiued, in that they consider not, that the Lord speaketh in that place of secret faults: for as for those which are manifest, and giue vnto the people cause of offence, they are to bee corrected by other meanes then by secret admonitions.

So did our late Reuerend Arch-bishop also reprooue T. C. for alleadging the selfe same place, to the establish­ing of his pretended holy discipline. In his defence of the answere to the Admo­nition. page. [...]0. Where haue you learned (saith he) that Christ in the 18. of Mathew, dooth appoint any generall rule for publique offences, such as neg­ligence and contempt in frequenting publique prayers, and hearing the word of God is? the verie wordes of Christ, If thy Brother trespasse against thee, &c. Do teach that be meaneth not thereof open and knowne, but of secret and particular sinnes, &c. To conclude, thus in euery page of their Bookes alleadge they the Scriptures; not consi­dering that diuine Axiome, which a late Keckerman. in lib. 3. Systē. logici. cap. 16, Logitian hath gathered out of the auncient▪ Fathers, viz: Testimonium Dei alieno sensu acceptum nulla [...] in probando vi [...] habet.

But what other manner of reasoning vsed they?

The 44. sē ­blance. THey did also vsually reason (as Zuinglius in Elencho con­tra Catabapt.

Our Sectaries vse the selfe same vitious and Anabap­tisticall kinde of reasoning: for if you conferre or dispute with them, eyther about our Discipline, or about the cere­monies vsed in our Church, they will immediately reason thus:

Argum▪ [...] fact [...] ad i [...]s. This or that Discipline is vsed in reformed Churches, beyond the Seas: ergo we must vse the same.

Argum, [...] non fact [...] ad n [...] ius. Or thus: this or that ceremonie is not vsed in the church of Geneua: ergo we must not vse it.

This kinde of reasoning the Admonitors vsed in their preface to the Admonition: and it is also now adaies v­sed of their Proselytes and followers, who like of nothing well but of that which cōmeth from Geneua: I will ther­fore send them to Geneua for an answere. Beza contra Sarrau▪ page 127. We of Geneua (saith a learned mā of the church, speaking of this church of England) doe not prescribe to any Church to followe our pec [...]liar example, like vnto ignorant men▪ who thinke no­thing well, but that which they doe themselues.

But to leaue this their Sophistrie, did not your Ana­baptists yeelde to the truth, when they heard it demōstra­ted vnto them, and these their sophisimes confuted?

The 45. sē ­blance. NO, they were (as Bullinger. ad­uers. Anabap. Fo [...]. 78. & 244. Bullinger reporteth) stubborne and wilfull, and would not recant, though they were conuicted by disputation.

Our gracious Soueraigne was at his first entrie into this Realme, See the Pro­clamation for the auth [...]z. entertained & importuned with informations of sundrie ministers, cōplaining of the errors, and imperfections of the church heere, as wel in matters of Doctrin [...] as of Dis­cipline, [Page 49] And because the importunity of the complainers was great, their affirmations vehement, and the zeale where­with the same did seeme to be accompained, very specious: His Highnes caused a conference to bee had at his Honor of Hampton Court, in the month of Ianuary last: where before his Maiestie and his priuie Counsell were assembled, many of the greatest Bishops and Prelates, and many other learned men, as well of those that were conformable to the state of the Church establ [...]shed, as of those which dissented.

The sucesse of this conference was such, as happeneth to many other thinges, which mooue great expectation before they be entred into, but in their Pariuriunt montes, nasce­tur ridiculus mus. issut produce small effects.

For his Highnesse and his Honorable priuie Counsell found mighty and vehement informations supported with so weake and slender proofes, as it appeared vnto his Royall Majestie & his Honorable priuie Counsell, that there was no cause why any change should bee at all in that which was moste impugned, the Booke of Common prayer, containing the forme of the publique seruice of God heere established, neyther in the Doctrine, which appeared to be sincere, nor in the formes and rites which were iustified out of the pract­ise of the primitiue Church.

All which not-withstanding, there are yet some a­mongst vs, who continue still in their forwardnesse and way wardnes; of whome wee may say, as Saint Austen did of Caecilian & his confederates. August. Epist. 8. Noluerunt veritati con­cedere ne victi quidem. And thus you see that our Secta­ries doe resemble your Anabaptists in obstinancie.

The 46. sē ­blance. YEa, but our Anabaptists changed sower into sweete, e­uill into good, vice into vertue. They did (I meane) Vide Bulling aduers. Ana­bap. Fol. 78. 224. call their stubbornenesse and wilfulnesse by the name of constancie.

The Deuill that hath euer taught Harlots to cloath [Page 50] them-selues like honest Matrons, and vices to disguise them-selues vnder the habite of vertues, hath also taught our obstinate Sectaries, to call their obstinacie by the name of constancie.

They will not recant (forsooth) These are their vsuall speeches. least their followers should thinke them to be inconstant.

They are now ashamed to subscribe to the Orders, Rites and Ceremonies of our Church, because they haue euer hitherto constantly withstood them.

But to these may we fi [...]ly say, as S. Austen said to the like in his time: August. Epist 48. Est confusio adducens peccatū, et est con­fusio adducens gratiam & gloriam. Confusio adducit pecc [...] ­tum cum errubescit quisθ mutare sententiam, ne aut incon­stan [...] putetur, aut diu errasse seipso iudice teneatur. Confusio autem adducit gratiam et gloriam, cum erubescit quis (que) de propria iniquitate, et paenitendo in melius cōmutatur. Quid ergo ad huc dubitas tenere quod sentis, nisi quia ad it quod non sentis, re [...]aliquando sensisse confunderis, & dum eru­bescis corrigere errorem, non erubescis permanere in erro­re, quod vti (que) potius erubescendum fuit?

Your Sectaries did (as it seemeth by your late spee­ches) lately impugne your Booke of Common prayer: I will therefore now in the next place (taking occasion heerby) speake of prayer.

What? did they impugne your prescript forme of prayer too?

The 47. sē ­blance. YEs, as ye may read in Gastius de [...]rr [...]r. [...]atabap. Gastius, and in other of our Germain-writers.

So doe our Sectaries also impugne our prescript forme of prayers: for they complaine and crye out, that they Amon. page, 77. sest, 3 are tyed to a forme of prayers inuented by man.

The 48. sē ­blance. ALthough our Sectaries disliked our prescript forme of praier, yet they disliked not other formes of pray­ers, which they had framed to them selues.

No more doe our Sectaries: for albeit they dislike our forme of publique seruice, yet they Se [...] the Pro­clamation for the authorize­ment of an Vniformitie. vsed (and that since his Majesties entrie into the Realme) certaine formes of the publique seruice of God not heere allowed.

What a bolde attempt was that? how durst they vse a forme of publique seruice, where-vnto their Soueraignes authorizement was not first pr [...]cured? Suppose that his Highnes would haue allowed their Liturgie, yet what a poynt of disorder & confusion was it, that the feet should runne without the head? It was decreed in the Counsell of Concil. Car­thanuns. can. 23. Carthage, that no man should vse the formes of pray­er, which he frameth to himselfe, without conference with the bretheren, which are better learned. How durst they then vse their forme of seruice, before they had conferred with your learned & obedient Cleargie about it?

Well, let that passe, and let vs come now to some o­ther matter.

To what other matter?

Hauing shewed their oppugning of your forme of publique praier, it remaineth that you relate their oppug­ning of your administration of the Sacraments.

What Methode should I obserue in speaking of the Sacraments?

Wheras there are two Sacraments, viz: Baptisme, & the Lords Supper: order requireth that you first speake [Page 52] generally of them both together, and then particularly o [...] either of them.

Well, I am content.

Proceed then when you please.

The 49. sē ­blance. OVr Anabaptists taught, that the word of God must of necessitie be preached, before the administration of the Sacraments: alleadging (as Zuinglius d [...] Baptism. Zuinglius reporteth) Math. 5. 12. to proue the same.

Our Admon. pag. 4 [...]. Admonitors do in effect say the same thing, and doe quote the selfe-same place of Scripture for the proofe therof. Yea, T. C. reply. page. 125. T. C. saith flatly, that there must of necessity the worde of God be (not read, but) preached vnto the peo­ple, amongest whome the Sacraments are ministred.

And doe you holde this doctrine to be erroneous?

We holde, that preaching before the administration of Baptisme, and the Lords Supper, is not (as T. C. & your Anabaptists would haue it) de necessitate Sacramenti, that is, so necessarily joyned with the administration of these Sacraments, as that they may not be rightly administred, though the worde be not at the same time preached. But to leaue this discourse of the Sacraments in generall: let vs now speake of either of them [...]n particular. And first of all, let me request you that you would vouchsafe to re­late The 50. sē ­blance. their opinions concerning Baptisme.

THeir opinions concerning Baptisme, were these: 1. they held, that the Minister is, Zuingli. de Baptismo. & Caluī ▪ de Insti. Lib. 4. cap. 1 [...] Sect. 16. de ipsa Baptismi essen­tia, of the essence of Baptisme, that is, that the being of the [Page 53] Sacrament doth so depend vpon the Minister, as that it is no Sacrament, if it be not celebrated by a Minister.

We holde that the Sacrament (to vse Master Caluin. in loco citato. Caluint wordes) is not to be esteemed of his hand by whome it is mi­nistred, but as it were of the hand of God, from whome it certainly cōmeth. And therfore among men if a Lettter be sent, so that the hand and Seale be knowne, it skilleth not who, or what manner of person carrieth it: euen so it is suf­ficient for vs, to knowe the hand and Seale of the Lord in his Sacraments, by whome soeuer they be deliuered. Heerby is the error of the Donatists confuted, who measured the ver­tue & worthinesse of the Sacrament, by the worthinesse of the Minister.

Heerby also is confuted the error of T. C. who auou­cheth that T. C. page, 113. on this point, whether he be a Minister or no, dependeth not onely the dignitie, but also the being of the Sacrament.

The 51. sē ­blance. THis their fore-named opinion, made our Anabaptists (as M. Caluin saith) Caluī. Insti. 1. L. 4. cap. 15 Sect. 16. furiously to vrge rebaptization, denying vs to be rightly baptized, because we were baptized by wicked & idolatrous persons in the Popes Church.

This also made them to holde, that Baptisme minist­red by lay-men, or by women, was not effectuall.

Our Sectaries holde, that the Baptisme of women, is T. C. page. 113. no more the holy Sacrament of Baptisme, then any other daily or ordinary washing of the Childe: & that those which haue beene baptized by women, ought to be rebaptized: against whose folly (to vse M. Caluins wordes) we shall Ibidem. sufficiently be defended, if we thinke that we were baptized, not in the name of any man, but in the name of the Father, of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost.

Let not this my speech cause you to thinke, that wo­men are permitted with vs to baptize, as some slaunderous [Page 54] Puritanes haue informed some reuerend men be­yond the Seas; nor that I goe about to prooue that wo­men may lawfully baptize. For God forbid that I should teach them to vsurpe an office whereunto they be not cal­led: Onely I withstand this errour, viz: that baptisme mi­nistered by no women, is no more the holy Sacrament of Baptisme, then daily or ordinarie washing: for I hold that al­though (to vse S. Augustines wordes) August. lib. 2. contra epist. Parmen. c. 13. it be vsurped without necessitie, and is giuen of any man, to any man: yet that which is giuen cannot be saide not to be giuen, albeit it may rightly be said, not to be rightly giuen. The 52. Sē ­blance.

OVr Anabaptists by vrging these things before na­med, brought (as Bucer in his censure vpon the com. Book. Bucer truely reporteth) Baptisme into contempt.

Our Puritanes by their teaching, that Ministers are de ipsa baptismi essentia, of the being of baptisme, by their auouching that the word of God must of necessitie be preached before the Administration of Baptisme; and by their denying the necessitie of Baptisme, haue made men thinke, that the externall signes of this Sacrament is but a bare ceremony, and in no sense necessarie to salua­tion. Thus doth their Doctrine tend to the derogation of this holy Sacrament. Therefore I may say of these our factious Teachers, as Caluin. ad­uers. Anabapt▪ Caluin doth of your Anabap­tists: Though they say, that the grace of God towards vs, is not diminshed if Infants bee not admitted to Baptisme: yet I will shewe that it is much diminished: for wee must e­steeme the grace of God, especially by the declaration thereof, which he maketh both by his word and Sacraments. Seeing therefore that Baptisme is now ordayned, that the promise of saluation may be sealed in our bodies, as it was in times past in the people of the Iewes: Christians should be depri­ued of a singular consolation, if their children should be se­cluded from this confirmation, which all the faithfull haue at [Page 55] all times inioyed, that they should haue the visible signe, whereby the Lord doth shewe and witnesse, that he receiueth their chil­dren into the fellowship of the Church.

The 53. Sē ­blance. ALthough our Anabaptists taught, that Infants ought not to be baptized: yet before they broached this their heresie, they found fault only with ceremonies vsed in Baptisme, and namely, they said that Bulling. Fol 10▪ 214. interroga­tories ministred to sucking Infants, are meere fooleries.

Your Anabaptists then fell from schisme, into heresie: for first (as you say) they scorned interrogatories and o­ther ceremonies vsed in baptizing of Infants, and then afterwards did vtterly condemne baptizing of them.

I pray God that our Puritanes do not the like: for they haue alreadie requested, that In their petiti­on exhibited to the Kinges Maiestie. interrogatories mini­stred to Infants, &c. as superfluous may be taken away. Yea T. C. hath euen in scornfull tearmes vttered against in­terrogatories, ioyned with the Anabaptists. T. C. page: 134. sect vlt. This que­stioning (saith he) can be little better tearmed, then a very tri­fling and toying.

But farre otherwise speaketh Maister Perkins in his exposition of the cre [...]d. fol. 4 Perkins of it: for he saith, that this manner of questioning, was vsed euen from the time of the Apostles.

I wonder then, with what face our Puritanes can tearme this questioning, trifling and toying: the which was vsed both in the dayes of the Apostles, and in the next age after them, as appeareth by the writings of Dyonis, Are­opag. de eccle­siast, Hirarch. lib 7. Dyoni­sius Areopagita, Iustin. Mart. 1 Apol. Iusti [...] Martyr, Tertul. de co­rona militis. Tertullian, cyprian epist. 6. & 12. Cypri­an, Orig. homil. 5. & 12. in numer. Origen, Basil. despir. sancto cap. 27. Basil, Ambros. de Sacram. Lib. 1. cap. 2. & lib. 2. cap, 7. & hexam lib. 1. cap. 4. Ambrose, Chrysost. Homil. [...]1. a [...] populum A [...]tioch. Chrisostome, C [...]s. de incarnat. Lib. [...]. cap. 5. Cassi [...] ­nus, August. epist. ad Bonifaci­um. Augustine, Gyr [...]l. in catech [...]si mystagogica. Cyrill, Isidor. de officiis ecclesiast. Lib. 1. Isidore, Raban, de institut. clericorum, cap. 10. Rabanus and o­thers.

[Page 56]But to leaue your administration of Baptisme, did your Anabaptists finde any fault with your celebration of the Lords Supper.

The 54. Sē ­blance. YEs, they cried out (as Bullinger. Fol. 9. 18. Bullinger also relateth) that the Lords supper was not sincerely ministred in Germa­nie, according to the custome of the Apostolike Church.

Our Puritanes likewise say, that our Admon. 2 Fol. 42 43 Sacraments are wickedly mangled and prophaned, yea and wickedly ministred Yea, they crie out with your Anabaptists, Admon. 1 page. 95. sect. 3 that things are not reduced to the Apostolike Church: that in the Apostles time they read not the Nicene creede in their communion, nor fragments of the Epistle and Gospell: Admon. 95 [...] sect. r that they recey­ued it sitting: Admon. page 99 that then it was deliuered generally and indefi­nitely, Take yee end eate yee: not particularly and singular­lie, Take thou, and eate thou: Admon. page 100 that they ministred the Sa­craments plainely, not pompouslie, with Singing, Piping, Sur­plesse and Cope wearing Admon. page 103. 104 that they ministred them simply, as they receiued it from the Lorde: wee sinnefully, mixt with mans inuentions and deuises.

Loe, this is their rayling against our sincere admini­stration of the Lords Supper. Did your Sectaries come neare them.

The 55. Sē ­blance. Yes, ours said, that wee were so farre from imitating the Apostles in these things, as that indeede Bulling. fol, 9, 18, wee con­formed our selues to the Papists.

So doe our Puritanes too: for they say, that wee haue Admon. page 94 an Introite brought in by Pope Celestinus: that Admon. page 97 wee mi­nister it with Wafer Cakes, brought in by Pope Alexander▪ beeing in forme, fashion, and substance like their God of the Altar: that we Admon. page 95 receiue it kneeling, according to Honorius decree: that Admon. page 101 we borrow from Papists these wordes: the bo­die of our Lord Iesus Christ, which was giuen for thee, &c. [Page 57] and that we haue Gloria in exceisis brought in by Teles­phorus. But to proceede on in these matters concerning a Admon. page 10. 2. the Lords Supper, what other opinions held they?

The 56. Sē ­blance. THey held that we must not receiue the Lordes sup­per with wicked men. And for proofe thereof they alleaged 1. Cor. 5. 11. to which place Maister Cal [...]in. ad. [...] ▪ Anabapt. Cal­uin answereth thus: Paul doth forbid to eate with those that liue dissolutely. That pertaineth to priuate conuersation, not to the publike Communion. But will some say, if it bee not law­full for a Chrictian man to keepe companie with him that is wicked, for corporall meate, much lesse may bee receiue with him the Lordes bread: I answere, that it is in our power, whether we [...] may be familiarly conuersant with the wicked, or no, and therefore ought euery one to [...]he from them: but it is not so in our power to receiue the Communion, or not to receiue it, therefore the reason is not all one: wee must there­fore note, that if the Church doe tollerate and suffer an vn­worthy man, he shall doe well, that (knowing him to be such a one) doth abstaine from his companie as much as hee can: so that his doing make no schisme or separation in the Church.

The Admon. page 102. Admonitors obiected the selfe same place, to the same ende and purpose, that your Anabaptists did, and our late In his defence of the answere to the Admon, Page. 603. Archbishoppe answerod them, as Maister Cal­uin answered the Anabaptists. But not to discourse any longer about the administration of the Sacraments, did not your Anabaptists finde fault with your solemnizati­on of Matrimony?

Yes they did indeede.

What I pray you?

The 57. Sē ­blance. SAint Chrisost. in 1. ad Tim. ho­mil. 9. Chrysostome an auncient Father reporteth, how that in his daies those Maidens that kept their virgini­tie, vsed to weare a Garland vpon the day of their marri­ages, in token that they had ouercome the flesh, and the lustes thereof.

This ceremonie (as Zanchius de matrim, cap, 2. Zanchius truly relateth, we re­taine still in Germany, and that for these three speciall cau­se:, viz.

• 1. Because it is (as hath beene proued by the testimo­ny of S. Chrysostome) of great antiquitie in the Church of God.
• 2. Because experience teacheth vs, that it doth much good in our Countrie: for Maidens with vs doe striue for the Garland: and so consequently, to keepe themselues Virgins, least they should bee married without a Gar­land.
• 3. Because it hath for a long time beene vsed in our countrie: and therefore none (our Sectaries excepted) doe speak against it: for (as
  Ibid,
  Zanchius speaketh in our be­halfe) res externae &c. thinges externall which are not repug­na [...]t to the word of God, & which neither are superstitious nor obsceane: are to be ebserued according to the custome of the Countrie wherein we liue.

The Ring in Matrimonie is as auncient a ceremonie, as the Garland is: for Tertul, in ap­pol. cap. 6. Tertullian (who liued almost two hundred yeares before S. Chrysostome his time) maketh mention of it. Yea, I make no question, but that it was in vse in the very daies of our Sauiour Christ: for Christ himselfe (as S. Iubet annulū reddi, despon­sationis in signe et nuptiarum pignus, chry­sost. in Homil, de patre et duo­bus filiis, Chrysostome hath well obserued) alludeth vnto it, in that part of the Parable, Luke. 15. 22. then the Father said to his seruant, bring forth the bestrobe and put it on him, and put a Ring on his hand.

All which notwith-standing our Sectaries do not rest [Page 59] satisfied, but do make sute See their pe­tition to the King. that the Ring in Mariage may be corrected.

But to leaue the solemnization of Matrimony, what did your Anabaptists teach concerning excommunica­tion?

THey taught, that Excommunication is a matter of The 58. Sē ­blance. saluation, and that there is no true Church, where no Excommunication is. This the Anabaptists doe vrge, saith Bullinger lib. 6. aduers. Ana­bapt. Bullinger, that there is no true Church acceptable vnto God where there is no Excommunication &c. To these therefore we answere, that the Church of Corinth was a true Church, and so acknowledged of Saint Paul to be 1. Cor. 1. before there was any vse of Excommunication in it.

Our Puritanes doe herein (as it seemeth little differ from your Anabaptists: for their chiefe Doctor T, C. reply. page. 14. faith, that excōmunication, and other censures of the Church, are matters of saluation. But what other faults found your Anabaptists with the Church of Germanie?

The 59. Sē ­blance. WHat others truly, they Vide Bulling. fol. 18. held it to be no Church at all, and said in plaine tearmes, that it was not the true. Church of Christ.

So haue our Sectaries likewise saide, that our Church is not the true Church of Christ. I will acquaint you with their words: Adm. 1. page. 34. May it please your wisdoms to vnderstand, that we in England are so farre off from hauing a Church refor­med, according to the prescript of Gods word, that as yet wee are not come to the outward face of the same. But tell me I pray you, had your Sectaries no cause at all to find fault with your Church? was there no olde Popish trash re­maining in it? Had you no Reliques of superstition a­mongst you?

The 60. Sē ­blance. No, but they construed indeede euery thing in the [Page 60] worst part: for which cause Zuinglius saith thus of them: Zuinglius in ecclesiast. If they were sent of God, they would haue construed in the best part these externall things. &c.

The like may we say of our Sectaries: for ther is scarce any thing in our booke of common Prayer, which they haue not construed in the worst part.

To acquaint you with some particulars, they make sim­ple people beleeue, that we absolue men from their sins; when as indeed we doe onely in the name of God accor­ding to his Iehn. 20. 23 word, pronounce to a penitēt sinner, that he is absolued, pardoned, and forgiuen.

They do also beare the world in hand, that we vse con­firmation as a Sacrament, & that we adde it to make Bap­tisme perfect; when as they know (I appeale to their own consciences) that confirmation now vsed in our Church, is not to make Baptisme perfect, but partly, to try how the suerties haue performed that which was enioyned them, when the children were baptized: and partly, that the children themselues (being once of discretion) may with their owne mouth, and with their owne consent, o­penly before the Church, confirme the same: and also promise, that by the Grace of God, they will euermore endeuour themselues faithfully to obserue such thinges, as they by their owne confession haue assented vnto.

Againe, they say, that we Admon. page 195. make the maried ma [...] to make an Idoll of his wife; saying with my body I thee worship: when as our meaning onely is, that the man should (as the A­postle biddeth him) 1. Peter. 3. 7. giue honour vnto the woman as vnto the weaker vessell.

To conclude, this construing of things in the worst part, was a thing very common at the late conference, as appeareth by these his Maiesties words: See the Pro­clamation for the authoriz. We thought meet [...], with the consent of the Bishops and other learned m [...]n there present, that some small thinges might rather bee explained, then changed; not that the same [...]ight not verie [Page 61] well haue beene borne with, by men who would haue made reasonable construction of them, &c. But to proceede to some other matters, what other opinions held your Ana­babtists?

The 61. Sē ­blance. VVHy do you thus wearyme with relating their o­pinions? Maister Bullinger. fol. 18. Bullinger telleth you that there was no stay in them, but that daily they inuen­ted new opinions, and did runne from errour to errour.

How new-fangle likewise our Nouellists are, it appea­reth by their often correcting, altering, and amending of their plat-forme of Discipline.

But what need I produce any arguments to proue this? T. C. and his adherents, in one of their examinations in the Starre-chamber, did confesse and auouch it vpon their oathes, See the Sur­vey of pretēded holy discipline. that there were then (after many meetings which they had) some things in their draught of discipline, wherein they were not resolued. And I verily perswade my selfe, that if our obstinate Ministers were pressed vpon their oathes, they would (notwithstanding all their plod­dings together) acknowledge that they are not resolued in all points what they would haue.

Yea, this their affectation of noueltie was such, as that it moued the Kings Maiestie, to giue this admonition to all his Subiects: See the pro­clamation be­fore alleadged. We do admonish all men, that here­after they shall not expect nor attempt any further altera­tion in the common and publique forme of Gods seruice, from this which is now established: for that neither will wee giue way to any to presume, that our iudgement hauing determi­ned in a matter of this waight, shall be swayed to alterati­on by the friuolous suggestions of any light spirits: neyther are we ignorant of the inconueniences that doe arise in go­uernment, by admitting innouation in things once setled by mature deliberation: and how necessarie it is to vse constan­cie in the vpholding of the publike determinations of States: [Page 62] for that such is the vnquietnes and vnstedfastnes of some dis­positions, affecting euerie yere new formes of things, as if they should, be followed in their inconstancy, would make all acti­ons of states ridiculous and contemptible. &c.

And thus you see, how that our Sectaries doe affect new formes of thinges, inuent new opinions, & runne from error to error, as your Anabaptists did.

But what doe you coniecture to be the cause, that these your Sectaries did thus runne from one new opinion to an other, & were not of a more stayed & settled iudgement?

The 62. sē ­blance.TRuely, it was (as I coniecture) because they contem­ned & disdained the old fathers of the church, and thought it the loosing of good houres, to peruse their wri­tings.

It greeueth me to see how lightly our Sectaries also est­eeme of the classicall & principal Doctours of the church (next the Apostles of Christ, and their next succeeders) whome they ought to Ego illos [...] ­ [...]eror & ta [...] nominibus reuerence, & to doe a kinde of ho­mage to their very names, and to acknowledge that of them all, which was said of Sencea. lib. 8. Epist. 65 two of thē, viz: that they are euen the hammers of Hereticks, & the eyes of the world.

Why? how doe they account of these Starres and Orna­ments of learning?

How lightlye they account of them, the verye worde [...] of T. C. doe make proofe: who (when he was vrged with the testimonies of Ignatius, Tertulliā, Cypriā, Ierome, Au­gustine, [...]nd others) cryed out, that T. C. lib. 1 pag. 154 truth was measured by the crooked yard of time, Yea, he tearmeth the seeking into the Fathers writings T. C. lib. 1: page 114▪ araking in Ditches.

And doe they make the same reckoning too of aunci­ent Councels and Synodes?

The 63. sē ­blance. YEs, the Councell of Nice, of Neosesarea, of Gangren, and of Orleance, being quoted to proue the authoritie of the Church in thinges indifferent: T. C. complained, T. C. Lib, 1 pag. 29. 32 that he was pestered with such a kinde of authoritie, insteed of Isai, Ieremie. S. Paul, and S. Peter.

It is likely that they esteemed very lightly of the wri­tings of heathē writers, seeing that they made so small rec­coning of auncient Councels and Synodes.

True, & did your Sectaries make any greater account of them?

Ours? no, there was one Iohn Mathew their principal prophet, that commaunded (as Sleidan testifieth) euery Sleidan lib, 10, one of his followers, to bring all his bookes whatsoeuer, (sauing the Bible) to be publiquely burned, which was accordingly performed.

Belike then they were of opinion, that all Gentile lear­ning should be abandoned from the lips of Christians.

The 64. sē ­blance. YEs, and especially from the lips of Preachers.

Saint Augustine writing against Petilian, telleth vs, Aug: lib▪ 3. contra Petilian cap. 16. that the said Petilian his aduersatie did accuse him for a L [...]gi [...]ian, and did bring Logicke it selfe to her try all before the people, as the mistresse of forgery and lying▪ and because he shewed some Rhethorike, did note him by the name of Tertullus the Orator, and charged him with the damnable wit of Carneades the Academicke. Your Anabaptists (I see) were of Petilian his humor.

True, and are not your Sectaries so too?

Yes, My heart (saith one of them, in a certaine Schismati­cal Intittled, the State of the church of Eng­land. pag, 25 Booke that is very rife amongst our Puritans) waxeth colde, & my flesh trembleth to heare you say, that a Preacher should confirme his matter out of the Fathers and humaine writers: doth preaching consist in quoting of Doct­ors, & alleadging of Poets & Philosophers? In what part of his commission hath a Minister warrant so to doe?

In what part! doth not S. Paul himself aledge Act▪ 17. 28 Aratus, 1, cor, 15, 33 Menander, & Tit, 1, 12 Epimenides, who were all heathen Poets? Is not this a sufficient warrant for a Minister? But I see the reason, why both your Sectaries and ours, doe take such vehement exceptions against Poets & Philosophers.

What is the reason?

The 65. sē ­blance. SVrely, as Vide August: lib. 3. contra P [...]til cap. 16 Petilian dispraised Logick & Rhethoricke, because he himself was igno [...]āt in those arts: so doe our Sectaries contemne all Gentile learning, and blame men that make vse of it, because they themselues are ignorant therein.

Is this the cause thinke you?

Yes, doubtles: for (as Greg, Nizi­anz. in M [...]n [...]d. Nazianzene saith) non vlla dis­picienda disciplina cognitio, cum de genere bonorum scientia sit omnis &c. There is [...]ot any knowledge of learning to be dispised, seeing that all science what-soeuer, is in the nature and kinde of good thinges. Rather those that Ipsam sper­mentes rusti­ [...]os et plane ig­naues existi­mare de be [...]. dispise it, we must repute clownish and fluggish altogether, who would be glad that all men were ignorant, that their owne ignorance lying in the common heap might not be espyed.

Well, then they are like the Foxe that despiseth the Grapes, which himselfe cannot reach.

Nay, they are rather like that olde Foxe, V [...]lpec [...]l [...] (c [...] amis­sa) reliquis [...]lp [...]bus calli­ [...] ▪ p [...]rsuasit, vt similiter et ip­sa ca [...]das rese­carent, [...] sola [...]rpis et defor­ [...] in su [...] ge­ner [...] vider [...] ­ [...]r, Melanct. who hauing had a mischance and lost his tayle, went straight way to the Beastes of the same kinde, and fell to perswade thē euery one to cut of his tayle; pleading the waightines and combersomnes of it, with many the like circumstan­ces: but the matter comming throughly to bee exami­ned and scand, it was found, that the craftie Foxe did it▪ onely to couer his owne deformitie, which (if to be with­out tayles had once become a fashion) should neuer haue beene [...]spied.

But to speake in earnest, there were other reasons be­sides this, why our S [...]ctaries dispise all Gentile and Pro­phane learning.

What other?

IT appeareth by the preface of Luther vpon the Epistle The 66. sē ­blance. to the Galathians, that our Anabaptistes condēned the graces and workes of God, for the in digni [...]ie and vnwor­thynesse of the persons and subiects in whome they were found.

So doe our Puritanes likewise contemne the writinge [...] of the Gentiles, because the authors thereof were wicked, prophane, and superstitious Idolaters. I speake what I knowe to be the opinion of some of them.

To such may you fitly say, as Ierome said to Ruffinus in his time, volo sis api argumentos [...] similis. &c. I would haue thee like the wittie discoursing Bee, which from a nettle ga­thereth hony. But let vs leaue this particular, and proceed in order to some other matter.

No▪ before I leaue this particular, let me shew you how greately they esteeme of their owne writers.

The 67. sē ­blance. VVHat? doe they preferre them (as our Anabaptists did theirs) before the auncient fathers who were the verie pillers of Religion & Christianity in their daies?

Yes, & before all the best late writers too. For the iusti­fying of wha [...] I haue said, I will acquaint you with the ex­presse wordes of some of T. C. his proselytes and follow­ers. I thanke God (quoth one F. to 1, A [...] Dom. 1586 of them) I haue satisfied in part my longing with T. C. of whome I thinke, at she [...] did of Salomon. Wee want Bookes F▪ to G, A [...] Dom. [...]58 [...] (said an other) wher­by we may come to the knowledge of the truth, I meane T. C his Bookes. Yea T. C. saith the DISPLAYER OF MEN IN THEIR COLOVRS) is a man as well able to iudge, as all the Lord Bishops in Christendom [...].

But to proceede, howsoeuer his Proselites account of his Bookes, it is moste true, that they are Puritan popish, and tha [...] they haue indeede beene Viru [...] eccles. [...]t r [...]i [...]. the verye poyson of Church and Common-wealth.

Not to conceale Doctor Whitaker his iudgement touch­ing this point: Quem C [...]rtwrightus (saith he, speaking of his second reply) [...]per emisit libellum, [...] magnam par­tem perlegi. Ne viuamsi quid vnquam viderim dissolu­tius, ac paene puerilius. Verborū sati [...] ille quidem lautam ac nouam supellectilem habet, rerū omnino, nullam quantum [...] ­go iudicare poss [...]m. Deinde nō modo per [...]ersse de Principis in rebus s [...]cris at (que) ecclesiasticis authoritate sentit: sed in papistar [...] etiam castra transfugit, a quibus tamē videri vult idi [...] capitali dissidere. Ʋer [...]mne in hac causa ferendus, et alijs etiam in partibus tela a papistis m [...]t [...]atur▪ Deni (que) (vt d [...] Ambrosi [...] dixit Hi [...]ronim [...]s) verbis [...]dit plan [...] (que) [Page 67] indignus est, qui a quop▪ ā docto confutetur. That is, I haue read ouer a great part of that Book which Cart wright hath lately published. I pray God I liue not, if euer I sa [...] any thing more dissolute and almost more childish. He hath in­great store of plausible wordes, but no substance as farre as I can iudge. Furthermore, he thinketh not onely perue [...]sly of the Princes authoritie in ecclesiasticall affaires: but he fly­eth into the very tents of the Papists, from whome he would be thought to dissent with a deadly ha [...]red. But he is not to be suffered in▪ this cause, and in other partes he borroweth weapons from the Papists. To conclude (as Ie [...]ome said of Ambrose) he playeth with wordes, and is flatly vnworthy to be confuted of any learned man.

Loe, this is the iudgement which this learned & iudi­cious diuine gaue of T. C. his bookes, which many now a dayes doe make as great account of as of Oracles.

And thus much concerning our Puritan-Popish tea­chers: now let vs come to their Proselytes & followers.

To their Proselytes? what! haue they any Proselites?

Yes, they haue compassed sea and land, & haue made many their Proselites, & the children of error, as deeply as themsel [...]es.

And indeed so did our Anabaptists too.

Of what sorte I pray you, were their Proselytes and followers?

The 6 [...]. sē ­blance. OF what▪sorte? Master Bullinger telleth you, that such of the vulger sort a [...] were of contentious natures▪ Bullinger ad­ [...]ers. [...]nab [...]p. ioyned with them▪ and commended their doings. Amongst the rest, there was one Iohn of Leyden, a Towne in Hol­land (hauing none other name, by reason of his ignobility, being but a Cobler by his occupation) who came into [Page 68] the Citie of Munster, which is the principall Citie of Westphalia a Pouince in Germany, and there became an egregious Anabaptist.

What! were your chiefe Cities pestred with Anabap­tists?

The 69. sē ­blance. YEs, for our Anabaptists went not to preach, in such places where the Gospel was not planted; but they in­sinuated themselues into those places, wherin the Gospel had beene diligently preached: and where godly and quiet men were, there they made a sturre, raysed vp facti­ons, and bred discord, as you may reade at large in our Germaine writers.

And to tell you the truth, so haue our Sectaries likewise insinuated themselues into those places, where the Gos­pell, without them, and before them was planted: and they haue disquieted the Church, and sowne the seede of contention euen▪ in our chiefe Cities, where Godlye and quiet men were, before they broached their opinions a­mongst them.

But you tell me not of what sorte their proselytes [...]re.

Truly, they are (for the greatest parte of them) Sow­ters, Coblers, and such like meane fellowes as your Iohn of Leyden was.

And I pray you, what were the qualities and condi­tions of these fellowes?

The 70. s [...] ­blance. SVrely, according to that Image of the worlde which I haue seene pictured, with the feete vpwards, [...]o nore that all thinges are turned vpside downe, doe [Page 69] their Prosolites and followers behaue themselues.

The very Sow [...]er and Cobler now a daies, though his arte goeth not aboue the latchet, will finde fault with the thigh of the picture.

The Butcher though his skill onely bee in opening an Oxe, wil take vpon him to cut the Anatomy of a man.

The Taylor, though his arte be in shaping of garments, will teach Ministers how to shape their Sermons to sute his affections.

The Cooke, though all his learning bee in the Larder­house, and in the Kitchin, yet will hee bee saucing the or­ders, rites, and ceremonies of the Church, and speake ve­ry saucily against them.

The Smith, though all his learning bee in his forge, yet [...] hee aduenture to blow the coales of contention in the Church, and to forge new opinions vppon the Anuill of errour.

The Farriour, whose greatest skill is in giuing a drench to a diseased horse, will take vpon him to minister Phisick to a sicke patient.

The Harper, if he be not harping vpon this string, (the gouernment of the church) his Harpe is quite out of tune.

1. Samuel. 6. The men of Bethshemesh will prie into the Arke of God though they die for it.

2. Samuel. [...] Ʋzza will put his hand to holde vp the said Arke, though he ouerthrowe himselfe by it.

Le [...]iticus. 10. Nadab and Abih [...] will offer strange fire, thought they burne in the flames of it.

Numb. 16 Korah and his complices, will challenge vnto them­selues: the calling and office of Moses: though the earth open her mouth, and swallow them vp for it.

Act. 19 The Exorcists will take vpon them to coniure euill spi­rits in the name of Iesus, though they be ouercome by the same spirits.

Mark [...]. 14. Peter will go [...] beyond the limits of his calling, and warme himselfe at the High Priestes fire; though hee be [Page 70] brought to deny his Maister by it.

1. Iudges▪ 1 [...] Sampson also will go [...] beyond the Precincts of his cal­ling, and breake the vow of Nazaret, though he loose his strength for it.

1. Io [...]ab. 1. And Ionas will shake of his calling too, though he bee shaken, and tossed in a tempest, and cast out of the Shippe for it.

O that our lay-Puritanes, that meddle so much in other mens callings, & so little in their owne, would learne by these feareful examples, how dāgerous a thing it is to goe beyōd the limits & precincts, of their callings! God will surely require of thē, for doing more then they should, as he did of the Iewes for dooing lesse Isa [...]. 1. 12 Who required this of your hāds, 1. Cor. 12. 4. 5. 6. there are diuersities of gifts & diuersities of ope­ratiōs, though the Ibid▪ spirit be but one, & God the same that worketh al in all. 1. Cor. 12. 29 30 Are al Aposlles? are all Prophets? are all teachers? are all doers of miracles? haue all the giftes of healing? doe all speake with tongues? doe all interpre [...]? Rom. 12. 4. We haue many members in one body, and all members haue one office, 1. Cor. 12. 17 If the whole bodye were an eye: wher [...] were the hea­ring? or if the whole were an eare, where were the smelling Rom. 2. 6. 7, [...] Seeing thē that we haue gifts which are diuers, according to grace that is giuen vnto vs, whether we haue prophesie let vs prophecie according to the proportion of faith [...]or whe­ther an Office, let vs waite on the Office; he that teacheth on teaching; he that exhorteth on exhortation.

And thus I conclude this point; beseeching God to giue them grace to containe themselues within the limits & lists of their owne duetie. Now let me intreate you that if you haue obserued the like in your Sectaries, you would vouchsafe to relate it.

Yes, Sleidan. [...]. [...]. Sleidan telleth you that our common people too did not keepe themselues within the compasse of their callings, but were very hot in seeking of reformation, and claimed interest in Church-matters.

But what other bad qualities had they?

The 71, sē ­blance. THey were so wedded to their owne opinions, as that they would not endure to heare eyther contradiction or argument to the contrary. Yea Iohn of L [...]yden, Vide Sleidan lib. 10. whē he heard one of the Preachers of M [...]nster begin to speake against his opinions, hee runne straight out of the place, where the Preacher was, & would not vouclisafe to heare what might be said against him.

These eyes haue seene many of the Puritan-faction immitate your Iohn of Leyden; or rather the deafe Adder, which as the Psalmist saith) stoppeth his [...]are at the voice of the Charmer, charme he neuer so wisely.

They haue seene (I say) many runne out of the Church when as their Preacher did but glaunce at the late facti­ous proceedings of factious Ministers: thinking it be­like a tempting of God, to heare what might be faid a­gainst them. God Almighty mollifie their preiudicial & obstinate mindes, that they may be content first to trye al thinges: and then to holde fast that which is good, as the Apostle admonisheth them.

Notwithstanding all this, our Sectaries are farre worse then yours.

Why?

Bullinger. [...]ol. 77. Ours would not communicate with them at al, that were not of their sect.

What! neyther in the hearing of the word of God, nor in receiuing of the Lords Supper?

YEa, in neyther of them both. The 72. sē ­blance.

No more will some of our Lay-Puritanes. To insist in some particulars, there was one See the con­spi [...]. page. 4. Hacket of Oundell in Northamptonshire, who could not endure to frequent the Sermons which M. Ray the Minister of that Towne did preach, because he was conformable to the orders of the Church; but went to a place called Stoake, where the Mi­nister fitted his humor better [...] & yet, there would not goe into the church, vntill he had heard the Psalme begun be­fore the Sermon, for feare hee should haue beene poluted with their prayers. And there are yet many also now a daies, who (to my knowledge) wil not vouchsafe to heare their owne preachers, but wil goe fixe or seauen miles to heare one of their new fangle faction.

Yea, some of them, (to my knowledge) haue refused to receaue the Lords Supper at the hands of their owne Mi­nister, because hee would not suffer them to receiue it sit­ting; but went to an other Q. Minister that ministred it ac­cording to their owne liking.

The 73. sē ­blance. YEa, but I hope they did not account all men wicked that were not of their sect, as our Anabaptists Bullinger. Fol. 1. did.

Yes, our Puritanes contemne and dispise all those that bee not of their faction as poluted, and not worthye to be saluted or kept companye with: and therefore some of them (as our late in his defenet of the Answere to the Ad [...]o [...]. Arch-bishop testifieth) meeting their olde acquaintance being Godlye Preachers, haue not onely refused to salute them, but spit in their faces, wishing the plagne of God to light vpon them, and saying that they were da [...]ed, and that God had taken his spirit from them: and all this because they did were asquare Cappe.

[Page 73]But what other lewde qualities haue you obserued in your Anabaptists?

The 74. sē ­blance. WHat other? it is not vnknowne to any that hath pe [...]used the writinges of Germain-writers, how that the Anabaptists haue veryfied the olde prouerbe, in strayning at Gnats; and swallowing downe Camels.

And it is not vnknowne to all the orders and compa­nies of this Realme, how that our Puritanes haue ver [...]fied the same prouerbe. For albeit their throates be sometimes so strait as that they wil not swallow downe a Gnat, yet at other times they are so wide as that they will swallowe downe a Camel. But not to insist in a matter so manifest. What other vile qualities had they?

The 75. sē ­blance. TRuely this, they did so slaunder and reuile our Mi­nisters, as that they ought (to vse Zuinglius in Ecclesiast. Zuinglius his words) to be suspected & hated of al Godly mē, euen for their slaun­derous and cursed speaking.

But your Anabaptists come not neere our lay-Puri­tanes, in abusing of their Ministers.

No!

No verily: for they haue imitated the vnbeleeuing Iewes in the Act. 17. 5 Actes, who tooke vnto them a company of wandring companions, such as stood idle in the market­place, wicked men, and gathered a multitude, and made an vprore in the whole Cittie, and came to the house of Iason, to fetch out Paul and Silas.

What! haue there beene any so fauyce with Gods Messengers?

Yes, there are some, who (to my knowledge) did not long since take vnto themselues, a company of idle fel­low [...]s, such as the vnbeleeuing Iewes did, and gathered a multitude of their factious [...]rue, and came in [...]o the v [...]rye house of God, there to checke and controle their Mini­ster, because he had often preached against their factious proceedings, and other their impieties.

But not to i [...]sist onely in their reuyling of Ministers, haue they any thing else in their mouths, but contumel [...]s▪ slaunders, defamations, opprobrious detractions, super­cilious, insolent and vncharitable accusations of all states and conditions of men that haue any way hindred their pretended reformation?

When I consider this, I finde that the Epigramme dooth well beseeme them, which Corneli [...]s Agrippa wrote of him-selfe.

But to interrupt you, and to stay you from vttering [Page 75] the last ve [...]se of that Epigrame: I will acquaint you with [...] common vice of our Anabaptists.

What is that I pray you?

TRuely this, albeit they speake much of mortification, The 76. sē ­blance. yet were they greatly giuen to lustfull carnalitie and vncleannes. And for further proofe heereof, I refer you to Stanhusius his Booke of Meteors, where he hath these wordes: Stanhusius. Lib. 2. de me­teor, tracta [...], de C [...]etis. Anabaptiste, omni sublat [...] disciplina et honestate, omnia libidinis genera exe [...]e [...]runt. Now what say you to this matter? doe your Puritanes heerein resemble your Anabaptist [...]?

I say of four Puritanes, as Saint Paul said of the Corin­thians: 1. Cor. 5. 1 It is heard certainelye that there is for [...]ication a­mong them.

But what neede I goe by heare-say? I haue seene the man that laide Hagar in his bosome, because Sara was barren. Yea, I will not acquaint you with the tenth part of what I knowe, and am able to iustifie.

Let vs see what other thing you haue obserued in your Anabaptists?

The 77. sē ­blance. I Haue obserued, that albeit they were thus vicious, yet they vsually obiected against our Germaine▪ Ministers that Vide Bulling Lib. 1. aduers. Anabap [...]. in their congregation there was a manifest amend­ment of life, but in ours none at all.

The preaching of the word of God, (praysed bee his holy name) hath beene effectuall in England, and hath brought multitudes from superstition, and palpable darkenes, to the true knowledge of god, &c. yet notwith­standing some of our [...], C. Reply. page 34, & 47 Sectaries haue vsed the selfe [...]me [Page 76] obiection against our Church. But to leaue this pa [...]ticu­lar, how did they cloake these their vices?

The 78. sē ­blance. TRuely, they did beare the world in hand, as Zuinglius in Ecclesiast. Zuing­lius testifieth, that whatsoeuer they did, they did it be­ing thereunto mooued by the spirit.

So did one of our Sectaries in a lett [...] to Ha [...]k [...], wher­in he vsed these speeches: See the Con­spir. page. 23. If his moste holy spirit direct you to come, come: if not▪ stay. And againe, the working of his moste holy spirit in m [...] since your departure, is mighti [...] & great: yea, [...] zeale of spirit [...] like fire.

But not to wearie ou [...] selues any longer, let v [...] heere (though abruptly) breake off this our conference.

No, giue me leaue I pray▪ you to relate the abhomina­ble opinions, detestable qualities▪ and execrable treache­ries of some of our Anabaptists, and then wee will con­clude.

Well, proceede.

The 79. sē ­blance. THe [...]e was one Th [...]m [...] Mu [...]cer in Germanye, who taught, that God euen in these daies doth reueale his will by d [...]eames, visions and reuelations Ipseme [...] mi­hi coram pr [...] ­misit &c. Sl [...] ­dan C [...]. [...]. God (saith hee) hath wa [...]āted [...]e face to face, he that cannot lye hath com­maunded me, to attempt the change by these meanes, euen by killing the Magistr [...]tes.

And Phifer his lewde companion, did but dreame in the night time, of the killing of many Mice, & present [...]ye expounded his dreame of murthering the Nobles. Yea, at Sangall [...] a Towne in Switherland, one of our Ana­baptists, did (as Suriu [...] in coment. S [...]ius reporteth) cut off the head of his owne natural Brother, the Parents to them both standing [Page 78] by And the reason which hee had for dooing it, wa [...] (forsooth) because it was commaunded him from aboue. Now tell mee, was there euer any such fellowes in Eng­land?

Yes, there was one See the con­sp [...]. Page. 42. Hacket that tolde the people that God had reuealed his will vnto him extraordinarily; and that he had receiued an imediate calling from God, to re­forme the Church, and to cal the whole world to repen­tance.

There was also a Conspir. pag 14. Puritan preacher, that informed the said Hacket, that God doth, & wil from time to time, rayse vp extraordinary workes and helpers to his Church, as Apostles, Euang elist [...], and Prophets, where neede requi­reth. And for the proofe of this his opinion, hee produ­ced the example of one that cryedvp and downe the streetes in Ierusalem before it was besiedged.

Yea, but was this Hacket a Puritane? your Puritanes happily will not acknowledge him to be one of their side.

Yes, that hee was a Puritane, it may appeare by these his Puritane trickes, viz▪

• 1.
  For the proof of al these par­ticulars follow­ing, I referre you to a Booke extant, enti [...] ­led the conspi­racie of pretē ­ded reformati­on page. 4. 1 [...] 14. 34. 3 [...].
  He followed such Preachers, at did fitte his humor, and would not heare Maister Ray the Preacher of the Townew here he dwelt.
• 2. Hee burned in desire of reforming the Church and Common-wealth▪
• 3. Hee had some of the Bretheren to fast with him, be­fore he attempted his reformation.
• 4. Hee purposed to plant in euery congr [...]gation, an cl­der shippe or consistone of Doctors, Past [...]rs, Lay- [...]lders, and widowes.
• [Page 79]5 He rayled on the Bishops, and on all other that with­stood this his reformation.

But what need I stand to proue this? who knoweth not, how that hee and his two counterfet Prophets, the selfe-same day they arose in Cheap-side, tolde the said Puritan-preacher in the morning, that reformation and the Lords discipline, should then forth-with he established? They did also charge him to put all Christians in com­forte, that they should shortly see a ioyfull alteration in the state of the Church-gouernment.

Thus you see, how that we haue confitentemreum, the confession of his owne lips against him-selfe, so that there needs no more to doe; as Dauid spake to the young man that brought newes of the death of Saul, Os tuum contra te loqutum est: thine owne mouth hath spoken against thee.

Yea, but was that Preacher a Puritane, that auouched extraordinary callings, by the example of him that cryed vp and downe the streetes of Hierusalem, before it was besiedged?

Yes, for hee was See the con­spir. pag. 2 Vicar of S [...]dbergo and Dent in the Northern partes; and for his intolerable insolencies, and contempt of the gouernment of the Church, was both de­priued of that his Benefice, and deposed from the Mini­sterie, by the authoritie of our late Soueraignes Commis­sion for causes Ecclesiasticall.

But to proceede in order, did there euer arise vp a­mongest the Anabaptists any such like Prophets as these were?

Yes, in the month of Iuly; Anno Dom. 1533. a new Prophet (beeing a Gold-smith by his trade) arose vp a­mongst them: who called the multitude together into the market-place, and signified vnto them, that it was the [Page 80] will of God, that Iohn of L [...]yden should be Emperour of all the Earth; and that hee should destroye all Princes and Potentates, but spare the common people that loued sinceritie.

As your Iohn of Leyden was Proclaimed Emperour by the Golde-smith Anno Dom. 1533. so was See the con­spir. Page. 66. Hacket proclamed King by his counterfet Prophets, the 33. yere of the Raigne of our late Soueraigne Queene of famous memory. But proceed on I pray you in this matter.

IN the said yere of our Lord, about the end of Decem­ber, The 81. sē ­blance. one of our Anabaptists, pretending himselfe to be diuinely inspired, and rauished in spirit, did goe through the street of the Citie of Munster crying; Repent, repent, and be againe Baptized, or else the iudgement and wrath of God will quickely or suddenly fall vpon you.

So in the said yeere of our late Queenes raigne, vpon the 16. of Iuly in the morning, did See the consp. pag. 55. 56. & the Annales of England, colle­cted by Iohn Stowe, pag. 1288. Hackets said Pro­phets goe from one Walkers house neere vnto Broken-Wharfe in London, and going from thence by Watling­streete & Olde-Change, toward Cheapside, cryed out and said: Christ Iesus is come with his Fanne in his hand, to iudge the earth: Repent England repent, repent.

But now to conclude this whole discourse, what other outragious villanie committed your Anabaptists?

The 82. sē ­blance. Truely, they joyned their forces together, and made an insurrection, as you may read in Sleidan and in other of our Germaine writers.

So did Hacket likewise commit Treason against our [Page 81] late Queenes Majestie, in the three and thirtith yeare of her Raigne: and for the same was arraigned on the 26. of Iuly immediately following, and See the An­nales of Eng­land pag. 1289 by tw [...] seuerall in­ditements found guiltie: as to haue vttered and spoken di­uers moste false & trayterous wordes against her Maiesty, to haue raced and defaced her Maiesties Armes, as also a certaine Picture of the Queenes Maiestie, and did malici­onsly and trayterously, thrust an iron instrument into that parte of the said Picture that did represent the Breast and Heart of the Queens Maiestie.

God Almightle, who preserued her Majestie from the Trayterous stratagems of all her enemies, and gathe­red her to her Fathers in peace, Preserue him likewise that sitteth on her Throne after her: and when he is gathered to his Fathers, (the woe whereof fall vpon an other age) let him goe to rest with greater tokens of his fa­uour, then euer to fall into the handes of such Anabaptisticall Puritanes, o [...] any other Trayterous enemies.

Euen so Lord Iesu: Amen, Amen▪