I Was verye yll aduyſed, when I procured Mondayn to heare oure diſputacion. In mine opinion he is a very wicked man: it is to be feared that he wyll vtter all oure communication vnto the Maieſtrates. Wel, an other tyme I wyll be better aduyſed. I wyll make ſpede to cal Ireneus: he is accuſtomed about this tyme of the daye commonlye to be at home. I wyll ſee yf he be there.

Some body knocketh at the gate. Boye, go open the dore.

What doeſt thou Ireneus?

Nothing, but loke here in an olde boke.

For aſmuch as thou haſt no great buſynes, would it not pleaſe thee to accompanye me to the houſe of Euſebius?

What to do?

To deuyſe and commune together.

Paraduenture he is not at leaſure.

Yes, that he is. And in ſo doyng thou ſhalt do him great pleaſure.

Well, I wyl go with thee, I wyl not refuſe the company and communicati • of honeſt mē.

I wyll go in before to leade thee the waye, for I am better acquaynted with thys houſe then thou. I am here Euſebie, and here is alſo Ireneus. Yf there be nothing happened ſince, let vs purſew our former communication.

There is ſome thing happened ſince youre beyng here, but what then? it behoueth vs alway • s to prefarre thoſe thinges that concerne our ſaluacion, before all other matters.

Yf there be any ſecrete matter betwixt you, I wyll withdraw my ſelfe?

There is nothinge ſo ſecrete amongeſt vs, but we can be contented to communicate theſame vnto thee. We began not long ago to diſpute: yf it be lawfull for a man, knowing the worde of God, to be preſent at the papiſticall ſeruices. And this queſtion was fyrſte moued by oure frend here Temporiſour, and for thys cauſe is he come hyther nowe, to vnderſtande myne aduyſe herein.

Ye knowe righte well both of you, howe I haue alwayes behaued my ſelfe in this variete of religion. Seking nothing ſo much as to liue in peace and quietneſſe, for the mayntenaunce whereof I haue contemned neither of the parties: but vſed my ſelfe with indifferencye towardes them both, hauinge alwayes thys deſire, that by ſome good meanes theſe quarelles might be qualified, and cōtencions accorded, that ſo much do alienate the hartes of the faith full, and cauſe the wycked an vnbeleuers to mocke our chriſtianite. And with the like good wyll I wyll be preſent at this your collatiō, yf it pleaſe you.

Syt here then. Aſſiſte vs O Chriſt by thy holy ſpyryte.

Now yf it pleaſe thee Euſebie, cōſider dyligently the matter, whereof we talked a lyttle before.

I wyl do it gladly, with this conditiō, that ye both with me, wyl dyligently conſyder this matter, not as a thinge particularely appertey ninge vnto one, but as a matter common to all perſones, to thende that priuate affection and ſelfe loue, do leade vs to nothinge beſyde the trueth. And for aſmuch as by this our collatiō our purpoſe is not to ſearche out abare knowledge without effecte, but rather a perfect obedience, ſuche as apperteyneth to God and to his trueth: Tell me therfore (I pray thee) Temporiſour, before we go any further in this matter:Nota. what reuerence thou wilte beare vnto the trueth, when thou ſhalt be made to knowe theſame, without any contradiction?

Wherto ſerueth this queſtion?

Whereto? I wyl tell thee at ones. To thend we would not labour in vayne, for the glorye of God, and thy ſaluation: for wherto ſhall it ſerue to beate the eyre with our wordes? Yf yu be not reſolued in thy conſcience, (after thou knoweſt the truth) to frame thy lyfe according vnto the ſame in refuſing al vnlawful thinges? Whereto ſhall we ſpende ſo manye wordes in vayne: And not onelye in vayne, but rather to prouoke the iudgemente of God to fall more greuouſly vpon thee, and to incenſe his indignation agaynſt the. Art thou ignoraunt of this ſayinge of Chriſt: The ſeruaunt knowing, and not doyng, ſhalbe greuouſly puniſhed? & therfore fyrſt of all determyne with thy ſelfe what thou wylte do, when thou ſhalte knowe, what thing is commaunded, and what thinge is inhybited.

Now can I promyſe any thing before hand what I wyll do, ſeynge it is not in myne owne power, but cometh of the grace of god: Leaue that then to the grace of God, and beginne as I haue deſyred thee, to conſydre and examyne this matter.

I do not demaund (O Temporiſour) what thing thou wylt do, hauing knowen the truth, but wherto thou art preſently inclyned? I demaund not of the thing to come, but what the intencion of thyne harte is nowe. It is two thinges, to ſay what thou purpoſeſt to do, and to ſay what thou ſhalt do. As touchīg thinges to come: It behoueth him that hath a good wil and is already inclined to godlines, to aſke the grace of God for the performaūce of the ſame. But where as there is no wyl, nor determined purpoſe, to do the thinges that are godli: it behoueth him fyrſte of all to deſyre God to geue him a wyll to do well, who onelye (as witneſſeth the Apoſtle) accompliſheth and worketh in vs as well the wyl, as the dede. Proteſt and expreſſe therfore here (O Temporiſour) what wyl thou haſt preſently, to thend that I knowing and vnderſtanding the ſame, may wade in this matter accordingly. I pray thee Ireneus, is not this my requeſt reaſonable? Ireneus.

I cānot denye it. For who is ſo much a beaſt that doeth not well perceyue the great follye yt reſteth in him that is ſycke, who continuallye calleth for the phiſition, and whē he hath him, wyl not folow his counſayl? Temporiſour.

Yet I cannot expreſſe, what I haue purpoſed to do, ſo much am I perplexed in my mind, which is as yet inclyned hether and thether, without any reſolued determinatiō. God peraduenture wyll ſettle my mynde to ſome good ende, after that I am aduertyſed and reſolued of the truth: & therfore I pray the (O Euſebie) proceade vnto the matter. Euſebius.

The condition of mans mynde is very miſerable, when that onely we knowe not what we ſhall do hereafter, but that leaſt is, we are ignoraunt of that we wyll preſentlye. But go to my frende Temporiſour, for aſmuche as thou art not able to make declaration of thy wyl, at leaſt wayes declare vnto vs, what it is that yu deſyreſt withall thy hart: thou ſhalt fynde dyuers that do complayne that they cannot feale in themſelues no determyned purpoſe & wyll: and therfore do vnfaynedly wiſhe and deſyre, that they maye haue ſuche a purpoſed wyll as they do not as yet feale in theyr hartes.

I do moſt earneſtly deſyre a ſtabliſhed purpoſe and wyll. But to affirme that I haue theſame all ready in my harte, I dare not.

Yf thy deſire be ſuche, that thou mayſt ones ſettle thy harte and mynde thorowely, in that thing, wherin it is not as yet ſtabliſhed, • hou haſte no cauſe to diſpayre, but rather to praye vnto God oure father, to ſtabliſhe in thy harte this purpoſe to wyll well, and fynally to leade thee vnto the trew and perfect deſyre and ſtudye of godlynes by wel doyng.

I wyl dyligently fo • ow thy counſayl: wherin I deſyre thee to helpe me with thy prayers. But I pray thee now beginne to aunſwere my preſent queſtion. Euſebius.

I wyll moſt gladly ſatiſfye thy requeſte in both.Thre maner of cō munications. Fyrſt of all it is moſt certayn, that there are three maner of communications in religiō. The one is neceſſary and of neceſſitie. The other is indifferent and lawefull. The thyrd is neyther lawefull nor indifferent, but all together vnlawful and prohibyted. In the firſt are compryſed al thoſe thinges without the which no man can be ſaued: and in this part, this queſtiō hath no place, to wytte, whether the thing be lawfull, or no? Temporiſour.

I confeſſe the ſame. But what are thoſe thinges that are of neceſſitie neceſſary?Thynges neceſſary

The trew and perfect knowledge of God ye father, and of his ſonne whom he hath ſente, Ieſus Chriſt. The trewe lyuely fayth, and the confeſſion of the ſame, vnfayned repentaunce, lawfull obedience, feare and reuerence of god, inuocation & prayer with faith, hope of good thinges to come, patience in perſecution and affliction, trewe and perfect loue of God, and of our neyghbours,Out of ye church ther is no ſaluation & other lyke thinges, with out the which we cannot be ſaued. For by the communicating of theſe thinges, we do communicate with all the electe of God, without whoſe company and felowſhip there is no ſaluation to be hoped for. Ireneus.

There are very few Euſebie that do enquire after this maner of cōmunication. Euſebius

So much is the world blinded. The ſeconde maner of communication is, as I ſayd before, indifferent, tollerable, and lawfull, herein are compryſed all thoſe thinges, that are free, indifferent and lawfull. Temporiſour.

What are they? Euſebius.

All thoſe thinges that are not of them ſelues agaynſt the worde of grace, which is the goſpell: to wyte, meate, drinke, clothing, obſeruation of dayes, and all other obſeruations, by ye which the puritie of the chriſtian fayth is not violated nor defyled. To communicate in theſe thinges with the faythfull, yf it be free, it is alſo lawfull: and yf it tende to charitie, it is alſo expedient.

It is trewe, that the Apoſtle ſpeaketh there of the obſeruation of the lawe: but I pray thee conſydre, yf there be anye reaſon, to bynde the conſciences of men by the commaundementes of Biſhops: ſeyng that the commaundemētes of the lawe do not bynd them, which were not eſtabliſhed by men, but by God? Ireneus.

I maynteyne nothing: but I haue alledged that nowe, that here tofore I haue heard of other men, onely adding there vnto this worde. That thoſe commaundementes that thou calleſt the Biſhoppes cōmaundemētes,Cōmaundements of the Church. other mē cal them the commaundementes of the church, and therfore neceſſarye.

Of what church?

That inquyre thou of them.

But thou Temporiſour, what is thyne opinion herein?

No church of Chriſt hath any auctorite to commaunde in the houſe of God,Nota. but onely to obeye. For ſhe is the wyfe, and not myſtreſſe.

As a wyfe ſhe is ſubiecte to obeye her huſband, who is Ieſus Chriſt: and yet for all that ſhe ceaſeth not to haue auctoritie ouer hyr chyldren, to commaunde them: ſo ſay our Doctors.

I know it well ynough. But I praye thee, which be hyr chyldren to whom ſhe may commaunde?

I thinke, all thoſe that be Chriſtians.

Who is then, this commaundinge church, yf al chyldrē are but the chyldrē of the church? I ſuppoſed that the church is ſo compyled and and knyt together of Chriſtians, as the bodye is, of certayn mēbres. But theſe people ſpeake as yf there were ſome one churche by it ſelfe, yt hath auctoritie to commaunde all chriſtiā people, as hyr chyldren. Ireneus.

They call this church Catholyke and Apoſtolicall.The Catholyke church.

In this church is comprehended al chriſtiā people. Yf this be the church that they meane, I would gladly know in what place was there euer this catholyke and vniuerſall aſſemble of chriſtians: in the whiche was ordeyned theſe commaundementes, that they cal the cōmaundementes of the church? Ireneus.

It is not poſſible that all Chriſtian people could aſſemble together in one place. But they ſay: that the Romayne church is abled into the place therof, ſo that all that euer ſhe ordeyned, is auctoryſed as yf it were done by the vniuerſall church. Euſebius.

They ſaye ſo: but howe do they proue it? Who hath geuen the Churche of Rome thys power?

We go cleane frō our matter: let vs referre this queſtion of the auctoritie of the churche vnto another tyme, and returne to oure former purpoſe, from the which we haue ſtrayed.

Thou ſayeſt wel. Tel me thē Temporiſour, doeſt thou reken and place the papiſticall ſeruices amongeſt thoſe thinges that are free, indifferent, and lawefull, or no?

The papiſtes themſelues do not ſaye, that thei are free and indifferent, but neceſſary: but as for me, I do not exteme them amōgeſt thoſe thinges that are lawful and free, but rather amongeſt thoſe that are prohybyted.

Thou haſt geuen a good iudgement. Let vs now come to the thyrd maner of communicatiō the which we call prohibyted or forbodē. Here in are compryſed all thoſe thinges that are cō trary to the worde of God, as are all falſe ſeruyces, ſuperſticions, mennes decrees without the auctoritie of the worde, inuocation of deadſaynctes, and ſuche other lyke conſtitucions.

Amongeſt the which noumbre, I iudge the papiſtical ſeruyces to haue place, of the which now we are in queſtion, wherfore tell me yf it be lawfull by any meanes to participate at the ſame?

I geue you leaue to iudge in theſe thinges as it ſhall ſeme vnto you good, although I can not accorde there vnto with you, yet I am contentend to heare what concluſion you wyl make of this queſtion.

I cōmende thy modefiye, Irenie: but come on Temporiſour, thou aſkeſt yf it be lawful by any meanes to communicate and be preſent at vnlawfull ſeruyces. Fyrſte tell me what thou meaneſt by this, by any meanes? wherfore rather doeſt not thou playnly demaunde, yf it be all together lawfull to communicate all maner of wayes at theſe vnlawfull ſeruyces.

Thinkeſt thou that thou doeſt not ſinne at all, by this outward ſociete and coniunction wt the vngodly in their ſuperſticiōs, becauſe thou doeſt not inwardly conſent thereunto?

I ſuppoſe ſo: and therefore I make inquiſition thereof.

Geue me leaue Temporiſour, to ſaye myne opinion. Thou ſemeſt vnto me to do in this behalfe, as yf one beyng apprehended amongeſt theues in cōmitting of theyr robberyes, would excuſe himſelf before the iudge that he dyd not ſteale, alledging that he ſtale with thē agaynſt hys harte and mynd.

Thou ſpeakeſt very rudelye: and yet neuertheleſſe, thou cōmunicateſt aſwel as I, at theſe papiſtical ſeruices, outw • rdly.

It is trew, & inwardly alſo, & doe not condemne my ſelf in ſo doynge, for I exteme that to be laweful, that ye ſay to be vnlawful.

No, although I were conſtrayned.

Wherefore?

Becauſe I could not be there without ſinne.

Thou canneſt not be without ſinne (as thou confeſſeſt thy ſelfe) in beynge preſent and aſſiſting of them that offend agaynſt the ſeconde table, and yet thou aſkeſt yf it be lawful to cō municate with thoſe that ſinne, (not agaynſt ye ſeconde table) but that worſte is, agaynſte the fyrſt.

Truth it is, that they doe ſinne agaynſt the fyrſt table through theyr ſuperſticion, & impiete of their hartes,and what is it that gydeth ye body thither. but I doe not ſo, for aſmuch as I do not communicate with them in harte & mynde, but only in body and outward ieſture. But in the ſociete and felowſhip of adulterers and theues, I cannot outwardly ioyne my ſelf thereunto without ſinne:who euer ſaw a body wtout a hart come to the Maſſe? for then I ſhould do agaynſt the commaundemētes of God, which doe not onelye condemne the affections of the • nynde, but alſo the outward facte of the body.

I thinke ſo in dede.

Tell me thē: yf thou hadſt liued in the tyme of Daniel, what other counſayl wouldeſt thou haue geuē to the thre yong men, thē that, which thou thinkeſt preſently to be lawfull? or els yf thou hadſt bene in theyr place, wouldeſt thou not haue done, as yu doeſt now? Thou wouldſt haue obeyed the Kynges commaundemēt, and haue kneled downe with the reſte.

No that I would not, for yf I had done ſo, it had bene ſynne.

Wherfore? Couldeſt thou not outwardlye haue ſatiſfyed the Kynges commaundemente by outward ieſture & worſhipping, reſeruinge alwayes vnto god the adoration and worſhipping of thy hart?

Yf I ſhould ſay: that they might outwardly haue obeyed the Kynges commaundemente with the reſt, I am afrayde to condemne thoſe m • rtyrs of God, that withoute anye neceſſitie they dyd abandon theyr lyuēs into daunger: & therfore it is better to confeſſe the trueth.

Thou confeſſeſt then, that in all falſe ſeruyces of Idolatrye, they do not onely ſynne, that beyng ſeduced through the errour of theyr vnderſtandinge, conſente there vnto with theyr hart, but all thoſe alſo that by outward ieſture do communicate with them?

I confeſſe thy ſayinge to be trewe in the example of the three young men, which thou alledgeſt, but not in my doynges.

Wherfore?It is all one, for ye adoratyō of al creatures is generally prohibited.

For there it behoued them to worſhippe the Image of a Panym and Heathen Prince: but our worſhippīg (as diuers affirme) is another kynde of adoration.

As touching that poynt we wyll debate the ſame more amplye here afterwardes in tyme & place whē occaſion ſhall better ſerue. But now the queſtion is, yf that which thou doeſt, may be excuſed, by that thou doeſt communicate at the papiſticall ſeruyces, not with thy mynde, but with the body onely. I haue gladly cōfarred this thine excuſe, with thē example of thoſe thre yong mē, to thend thou mighteſt perceyue that thing not to be lawful, which thou ſuppoſeſt to be laweful.

I am almoſt caught.

What aunſwereſt thou to that which the Apoſtle ſayth:Rom. 14. the .xiiij. to the Romaynes: what ſoeuer is not of fayth, the ſame is ſinne? Thou canſt not in fayth be preſent and communicate at thoſe ſeruyces which thou condēneſt: wherfore all thy doynges therein is ſinne, becauſe yu doeſt not the ſame in fayth.

Howe can I commnnicate in fayth at that thing, which clearely repungneth agaynſt the word of God, which is the onely ground and foundation of fayth?

Thou ſayeſt trewe: for vndoubtedlye thou canſt not communicate in fayth at that thinge which thy conſcience condemneth.

I condemne it truely.

Then arte thou alſo condemned in aſmuche as that thou doeſt, is not of fayth.

Geue me the new Teſtamēt that I my ſelfe may ſee that texte.

Holde, and reade it: it is in the ende of the Chapter.

Harken what the Apoſtle ſayth: Happy is he that condemneth not him ſelf, in the thinge which he alloweth, for he that maketh cōſciēce to eate, is damned yf he eate, becauſe he eateth not of fayth: for whatſoeuer is not of fayth the ſame is ſynne. In myne opinion, the Apoſtle doeth not ſpeake here of vnlawful thinges, but of thinges free and lawfull, to wyte of meates which may be vſed with a ſafe conſcience. And yf any do vſe the ſame agaynſt his cōſcience in that he thinketh not the facte lawful, that perſon condemneth hym ſelf, for aſmuch as he eareth not in fayth. But what ſerueth this to our queſtion, which is not of indifferent and lawful thinges, but of thoſe thinges that are of thē ſelfes vnlaweful? & as for me, in my doynges I do not condemne my ſelf although I do not inwardly approue theſe papiſticall ſeruices.

Me thinketh that the obiection of Temporiſour is ſomewhat pithy and ſtronge.

Truth it is, that the Apoſtle ſpeaketh there but of thinges lawful and free. But for al that conſidre (I pray thee) yf he be condmned that doeth a lawfull and free thing without fayth, becauſe he doeth not alowe theſame, but condmneth it, and might for all that doe the ſame withoute ſinne, yf he dyd alowe it, and dyd it in fayth: what ſhall we ſaye of thoſe that doe thinges, that are of them ſelues al together vnlawful, which alſo they condemne? In the doynge wherof they cā haue no fayth, for aſmuch as they do not allowe the ſame. Yf a medecyne that of it ſelfe is good, becometh hurtfull thorough the occaſion of hym that taketh it, what woulde poyſon be to him, yf he receyued theſame? For yf the medecyne euyll taken maye anoye, how much more poyſon?

I confeſſe that there is poyſon in the papiſticall ſeruices: but my ſoule toucheth it not, but my body onely.

That is trew becauſe they do condemne thē ſelues in theyr doynges: but as for me, I doe not condemne my ſelfe in my doynges, neither yet condemne my fact.

This aunſwere woulde ſerue thee well, yf our queſtion were of indifferent and lawefull thinges. But for all that thou doeſt not condē ne thy ſelfe in the facte of vnlawful & prohibited thinges: thou art neuer the better thereby, but worſe a great deale, then thoſe that beynge blynded with erroure, do not condemne theyr doynges: as peraduenture they would yf they vnderſtode by the worde of God, aſmuche as thou knoweſt.

Yf I knew this to be trew that you ſaye: I woulde neuer be perſwaded to communicate with them.

Yet agayne I am caught, without knowing any waye to eſcape. The ſaying of the Apoſtle doeth conuince me.

Thou canneſt not fynd a better waye to eſcape, then to geue prayſe vnto the veritie, and chaunge thyne opiniō. What aunſwereſt thou I pray thee vnto this generall ſentence: al that is not of fayth is ſynne?Rom. 14. By this ſentēce is not onely condemned all maner of eating without fayth, but alſo generallye all that euer is done without fayth. Where is now become your exteriour communication and coniunction at the papiſticall ſeruices, which thou and other thy ſemblables do vſe, beyng ſo dyrecte contrarye vnto the worde of God, as your owne conſciē ces do teſtifye in condemning of the ſame?

Yf this be trewe, ſuche people are in greate daunger.

When I go to the papiſticall ſeruyces,The cogitacion of diſſemblers. I iudge it no great matterto diſſeble outwardli, ſeynge I do reſerue faith perfectly in my hart. I pray thee Euſebie, tel me, what ſemeth vnto thee of this cogitacion?

For the fyrſt part: Yf thou haue fayth in thy harte, tell me, howe can the ſame be counſeled and hyd? Thinkeſte thou that fayth is anydle thing and without facte, and that ſhe maye be ſo hyd in the harte, that ſhe cannot appeare out wardly? Fayth is a fyre: it is impoſſible ether to hide her, or incloſe her, but that ſhe wil ether caſt forth flame or ſmoke.Pſa. cxv. The Prophete ſayth and likewiſe the Apoſtle after him. I haue beleued and therfore haue I ſpoken. The fayth of the harte is not dombe, but her violence breaketh the barres of the mouth: for of the abundaunce of the harte, the mouth ſpeaketh ſayth Chriſt.Math. xij And the Apoſtle affyrmeth, that to beleue with the harte,Roma. x. iuſtifyeth: but to acknowledge with the mouth, maketh a man ſafe. Take away the confeſſion of the mouth, and then is fayth dead. Wherefore take hede and beware that thy diſſimulation and cōmunication with the papiſtry, do not ſo thorowly hide thy faith that it quenche not al together that litle ſparke of fayth that is in thee. For as the fyre loueth & deſireth a freedom & abundaunce of ayre, euen ſo doth fayth deſyre to be knowen euery wher.

And I feare the contrary. That yf I manifeſt my fayth vnto the wicked, that then it wyl happen vnto me, as vnto thoſe that ſhow their treaſure and money vnto theues.Math. v. And more ouer Chriſte himſelfe doeth admoniſhe vs, that we ſhould not caſt yt (that is holy) vnto dogges and ſwyne, whereby I am perſwaded that it is better to hyde priuelye this treaſure of faith then that it ſhoulde be knowen of the wycked, (who are to be cōpared vnto dogges & ſwyne) leaſt haply they do treade the ſame vnder their feete, and deſtroy me.

Thou art then afrayde of thy fayth, as yf it lay in the power of the wicked, to take it away from thee. Trueth it is, that theues and robbers may take away oure treaſure and ryches, but the fayth which is in our hartes, cannot be imbeſelled nor ſtollen, no, not of the gates of hell.Math. 16 The confeſſion of the mouth, cauſeth the fayth (that is in the harte) to be knowen: but it neyther deſtroyeth it, nor loſeth it, but rather enterteyneth it, & preſerueth it. For fayth is of ſuche a nature, that yf it be not communicated, it periſheth: ſo much wanteth it that in hydinge it, thou ſhalt preſerue it. Furthermore is it not a greate follye of thee to thinke to hyde thy fayth by diſſimulation: ſeynge that for the ſpace of theſe twentie yeares thou haſt alreadi inanifeſted the ſame to al people? Thinkeſte thou that all thy neyghbours are ſo brutiſhe and ignoraunte that they doe not knowe, that this yt thou doeſt, is no alteration of thine opinion in religion, but rather a certayne diſſimulation? yea, and that not voluntarye, but by violence and feare of the Maieſtrates? Thou feareſt more this thinge, then the loſſe of thy fayth.

In doyng the ſame (Euſebie) I do obey the counſayl of Chriſt,Math. 10 who ſayeth: beware of mē, for they ſhall delyuer you vp, &c. As alſo, be wyſe as ſerpentes, withoute omittinge of that which I reſyted before: caſt not pearles before dogges and ſwyne, leaſte they treade theſame vnder theyr feete, and after retourne and deuour you. Thou knoweſt yt theſe thinges were ſpokē of chriſt, to his faythful flocke, to thende they ſhould more diligentlye take hede to them ſelfes. Wherfore I ſe not why I ſhould be reprehēded in keping ſecrete my preciouſe pearles, and in takinge hede to my ſelfe, leaſt I fall into the handes of the wicked.

I know well ynough the ſayinges of chriſt, which thou haſt alledged for thy defence: wiſſhing withall my harte that we all dyd knowe the ſpyryte of Chriſt. Yf it be not tediouſe vnto the Temporiſour. I wyll declare vnto thee, how thou doeſt abuſe thy ſelfe in the allegatiō of theſe ſcriptures.

Ye ſee howe I am prepared to entertayne my frendes, neuertheleſſe yf it pleaſe you to be partaker of ſuche as God ſendeth (wyth me) tarye. And I wyll forthwith cauſe ſome thing to be prepared for ſupper.

It ſhall not nede Euſebie, that we ſhould ſo many wayes moleſte thee, it hath ſuffiſed that thou haſt paciently heard our fonde communication: we thanke thee for thy good wyll. Neuertheleſſe, to thende I forget not my ſelfe, I praye thee (yf to morowe thou haue no greater affayres) that it would pleaſe thee to geue me leaue to haue acceſſe vnto thee for an houre or two, to ende our diſputacion.

Withal my hart, I am contented. Wherfore yf it ſeme good vnto thee Temporiſour, to morowe we wyll mete in thy gardyne. And thou Irenie yf it pleaſe thee, I pray thee be there alſo.

I am contente.

Although I ſerue nothing to further youre cōmunication, yet God willing I wyl be ther.

Fare well then Euſebie.

Fare well.

God be with you both.

IT behoueth me to go betymes to open the gardyne, and tarye there to receyue my frendes, as it apperteyneth.

Me thinketh, the gardyne is opened, peraduenture I haue taryed longeſt.

Come in hether Irenie, haſte thou not ſene Euſebius?

No. I feared to haue come to late.

Thou comeſt tymeynough: how lykeſt thou this garden.

It is very pleaſaunte. Thinkeſte thou that, that thou ſhalt not offend Euſebius with theſe delectacions? for as farre as I can deſerne he is nor the man that taketh any greate pleaſure in theſe thinges.

Ther is no daūger, he knoweth wel ynough this gardē, and furthermore as thou heardeſt, he choſe this place, wherin we might come to gether.

It is very wel: for it is my chefe deſyre, that nothing be done, whereby any man may be offended, and therfore. I praye thee take in good part, all that I haue ſayd vnto thee concerning theſame. But ſee, he is here at hande, let vs go to mere him.

Thou doeſte me great pleaſure Euſebie, in coming hether. I feared leaſt ſome let or trouble had happened vnto the, that thou couldeſt not come.

There is nothing happened: but (that in coming) I thoughte vpon our queſtion, in debating the ſame with my ſelf, wherby I came the more ſlowely: Wherein (I praye you,) pardon me.

You dyd well: and neuertheleſſe, we haue not taryed long for you.

Chuſe whether ye wyll walke vnder thy • vy •• , or ſyt downe at this table, to fyniſhe our c • llation.

Seynge we are three, me thinketh it better for vs to ſyt downe: to thende euery one maye the better heare, and aunſwere: and alſo propone more deliberately, the which thinge cannot ſo wel be done in walking. But yf your deſy • e be to walke, I am contented.

You haue deuyſed the beſt waye.

And ſo it ſemeth vnto me.

Pardon me, although I beginne fyrſte: for aſmuch as I haue promyſed to aunſwere vnto the obiections of Temporiſour alledged out of the .x. and . • ej. Chapters of G. Mathew. Yf ſo it be your pleaſures:

I thinke it good Euſebie, in purſuynge thy promiſe, that thou do proue vnto vs, whether I haue alledged thoſe ſcriptures, well, or no.

I wyll fyrſt declare, what is the trew ſence of the wordes of Chriſt,Expoſitiō vpon the paſſage of S. Math. the. 7. cha. and then we ſhall ſee howe well to the purpoſe thou haſte alledged them. It is playne that by dogges & hogges, he doeth meane, all carnall, fleſhely, cruell and bloudthurſtye men: to whom in no reſpect appertayneth holy thinges, nomore then pearles to hogges. And therefore the Lorde wylleth, that we do not wittingly manifeſt and declare the ſecretes of his Kingdome to ſuche people, confyaminge theſame by two pro •• able argumentes and reaſons. The one, for the conſeruation of the worde and doctryne. And the other for the preſeruatiō of the preachers & teachers of theſame word. Leaſt haplye (ſayth he) they doe • reade them vnder theyr feete, and in retourning do deuoure you. That which he ſpeaketh of treading vnder theyr feete, is meant of the worde of God, but that which he rehearſeth of tenring or deuouring, is meante of the myniſters and preachers thereof. So that by theſe wordes hys wyll is not, that the ſecrete myſteries of the Kyngdomme of GOD ſhoulde not be publyſſhed vnto the worlde, or that we ſhould not freely and expreſſely confeſſe the veryfie of the Goſpell of God before the Maieſtrates when we are called therunto. As haue done the Apoſtles & an infynite noū bre of martyrs before vs. But rather, he doeth adliyſe and perſwade vs by theſe ſayinges: yt it is not good nor cōuenient raſhely to declare vnto wicked and carnall men, the miſteries of the chriſtian fayth, whereby comenly enſueth nothing els but contempt and deri • io • of theſame, with manifeſte daunger of theyr lyues. And to theſame ende & purpoſe he vſeth theſe wordes in the .x. of S. Matheme. Beware of men, and be wyſe as ſerpentes. Doeſt not thou acknowledge and confeſſe, Temporiſour, that this is the trew ſence & meaning of the wordes of Chriſt?

I cannot denye it.

Let 〈◊〉 ſeenow then yf thou haue rightfully alledg • • hem for thy purpoſe, or no Chriſt commaundeth that thou doe not throwe forth they pearles before wicked and fleſhely people. But he doeth not wyll thee ſo to 〈◊〉 them in the ground, that the church neuer ſee them: for thou thinkeſt that thou mayſt lawfully diſſemble alwayes, before all maner of men, Further •• ore Chriſt doeth not thereby inhibite the cō feſſion of the veritie, but rather earneſtly commaūdeth and requyreth the fame of euery chriſtian mā, and chefely when they are called before the Maieſtrates. But thou, becouſe thou • ilte auoyde the daunger thereof, thou doeſte not only diſſemble and hyd thy fayth, but that worſt is, thou doeſt by diſſimulation contrary to thy fayth and knowledge in communicating at vnlawful ſeruice • If this mean • s 〈◊〉 eſcape were lawful, then ſhould we haue no martyrs in the Church of God, neyther yet any publike confeſſion of the veritie of the Goſpel, ſo often cōmaunded and practyſed by Chriſte and hy • Apoſtles.

What is there then to be done?

What? That which thouſe eſt me do. I abhore & deteſt as a moſt ſtinking carrion, their preſent eſtabliſhed religion, beyng wholy corrupted by the vngodly Biſhops through oure demerites and ſumes. I abſta • e frō theſame both in body and mynd, withall my famylie, & at home. I inſtructe my houſholde in the pure doctryne of Chriſte and in his trew religion eſtabliſhed by his worde. And to this ende we dayly reade at table the holye ſcriptures: & the better to confyrme and augment out fayth, we ſinge certayne Pſalines & holy ſonges. Euery day we do reſyte amongeſt vs, the ten cōmaundementes of almightye God: the Crede of the Apoſtles, without forgettinge the mayer that the Lord taught vs, to geue him thankes for al his benefytes. This doe I dayly in my houſe. And yet I go not through myne owne mocron vnto the Maieſtrate, to declare vnto hym my fayth, nor yet wittingly to caſt before dogges and ſwyne, the holy thinges of God: but yf • caninduce any one into the waye of the truth, or els reduce anye yt is ſteayed out of the ſame, I do it as dyligently & as ſafely as I can. And furthermore, I am alwayes readye to geue an aunſwere of my fayth to eueryman, & chefely to the Maieſtrate, whē. I ſhalbe required ther vnto, being wel contented to ſuffre & indure al that the Lord hath ordeined for me, in that behalf. This is a moſte ſimple & chriſtian maner of lyuing, not only to obey chriſt in his worde, but alſo to kepe the conſcience pure, & to geue an aunſwere & reaſon of the hope that is in vs.

I condemne nor blame not thy purpoſe and doynges Euſebie, ſeyng thy fayth is ſuch, and truely I would doe lykewyſe yf I dyd beleue as thou doeſt. For although I do not agree 〈◊〉 you in opinion, yet I cannot cōmend and alow any of thoſe that through feare doe diſſemble in theyr religion, thereby not onely wounding theyr owne conſcience, but alſo leadinge other by theyr example into extreame daunger, the which thinge myghte be eaſelyer remedied yf they dydde proceade therein more gentlye and humblye.

I knowe well ynough Irenie, thy modeſte and peaceable mynde, and therefore I was the more deſyreous to bringe thee with me to this collation.

Thou haſte nowe, Temporiſour, my • e example, • owe I doe vſe my ſelfe and my famylye in theſe troubleſome dayes, the whiche is not onely myne, but alſo the example of the Apoſtles, & of al thoſe that feare God, by whoſe conuerſacion thou mayeſt eaſelye know what thou oughteſt to do, and whether thou canneſt defende thy facte by the wordes of Chriſt.

I heare it and vnderſtande it: I do alſo allowe this conſtancye of thy mynde, the which I would gladly imitate and folow • yf I were not letted: for I declared vnto theem our fyrſt collation what thinges impeached & hindered me in the attempting thereof. And I ſuppoſed verely that I dyd not ſynne in communicating with the body onely at the papiſtical ſeruices, ſeyng that I dyd retayne alwayes in my harte the veritie and trueth. Thou haſt as touchinge this matter, alledged dyuers probable argumentes, ſo that I ſee no way to replye agaynſt the ſame. And chefely amongeſt other thinges thou obiecteſt againſt me, that I do vſe a great diſſimulaciō, the which truely as yet, I do not fele in my ſelf ſuch, as therby my doynges deſerue to be condēned. For I do not cōmunicate at the papiſtical ſeruices, to thende yt I would ſeme to other to approue & alowe theſame, or yt I ſefe prayſe therby, or to abuſe or diſceyue any mā by my preſence, but only becauſe that in obeying the cōmaundemēt of the Maieſtrates I may auoyde al dan̄ger. He truely ſemeth vnto me properly a diſſēbler, yt through his diſſimulatiō ſeketh to abuſe al thoſe yt ether behold him or heare him: in ſeking his own comodite, wt the detrement & domage of other. But as for me I do none of al theſe thīges to any ſuch end I do not deſire to be reputed a papiſt, 〈◊〉 cō tented alſo that all people do know that Iowe no good wyll vnto theyr relygion, ſo that the Maieſtrate gather no matter agaynſte me of rebellion, that is my onely care.

Hetherto thou haſt diligently laboured to excuſe thy ſelfe, to thende thou wouldeſte not be iudged a diſſembler, or abuſer of other inē: but for all that thou cāneſt not eſcape, but that thy outwarde facte is iudged of all me • for a mere diſſimulation. For although thou doeſte not ſeke to abuſe any man by thy diſſu •• latiō, yet for all that, thy outwarde facre beying diſagreable from thy hart, (in cauſing outwardly to appeare vnto the communicantes another thing of thee, then the trueth is inwardlye) can not, nor ought not to be reputed ſuche as it ſemeth to be outwardly. And furthermore thou art not certayne whether thou doeſt abuſe any mā, or no, with thi outward preſence, for thoſe that are aſſembled there wt the, euen as they be ſimple and rude people, ſo do they thinke that thy comming thither, is to the ſame iud • & purpoſe, that theya • is. Thinkeſt thou, that thyne opiniō, which thou hideſt ſo ſecretly, is 〈◊〉 to euery one, ſo that thou doeſt abuſe no maner of perſon in aſſiſtinge at the papiſticall ſeruyces, with the lyke ieſtur • and countenaunce as they doe?

How can I abuſe any one of all my neyghbours, ſeyng that it is euydently knowen vnto them al, what fayth and zeale I haue had vnto the Goſpell of God in deteſting 〈…〉 for the ſpace of . • x. yeares paſte?

Yea marye: yf dyuers of late had not onely chaunged theyr outward maner of lyfe, but alſo they: harte & opinion: and are fallen ſo farre that now they doe not onely condemne, but alſo ſharpelye perſecute that, which latelye they dyd extoll vnto the heauens, I coulde redelye name dyuers ſuch examples.

I cannot denye it: I knowe ſome ſuche. But I am of another opinion and mynde.

I beleue the ſame: but tell me withoute fayuing, doeſt thou thinke that al men do certaynly know this thy mynde and opinion?

I coulde be contented it were knowen: but whether it be or no, I am not ſure.

I am ſure thou canneſt not tell: my mynde geueth me that Euſebius ſayth wel. For what iudgement can I haue of any man, but only by his preſent fac • . To iudge after thinges paſte, is no ſure iudgement, touching the doynges of men, but moſt certayn of God, in aſmuch as he is not mutable lyke vnto men.

Thou vnderſtandeſt the thing wel, Ireuie: and thou canſt not deuye it Temporiſour.

I confeſſe it.

Agreeſt thou then, that in aſſiſting at the • apiſticall ſeruices, tho • doeſt a •• uſe 〈…〉 in leadinge them ſo farre thereby that they doe thinke thine opinion to be lyke vnto theyrs, although it do differ •

I haue ſayd it, and I cannot 〈◊〉 ſay it: & that more is, I do not only confuſſe theſame to be poſſible: but I doubt me greatlye, leaſt it ſo happen vnto dyuers, my cōſcience cōſtreayneth me to confeſſe it.

Seyng thou vnderſ • and eſt their • ell me, yf thou perceyueſt not alſo aſwell the great euyll that thou doeſt to thoſe, whō thou abuſe ſte by diſſimulatiō, as the great offence againſt God and his church?

No, I perceyue it not.

Other men might make that aunſwere, that feleth not the prie • t of conſcience, as doeth the Temporiſour.

I wyll make thee vnderſtand and perceyue what I meane Tēporiſour, to thende that thou knowing the ſame, mayſt amende it.

And I wyl geue dyligent eare thereunto.

Firſte of al, put the caſe, that I were one of thoſe rude ignoraūt people, that nether vnderſtode the cauſe that is in diſputaciō, nether ye • thy mynd in that behalf. Tel me (I pray the) in the name of the liuing God, whē I ſhal ſe thee at the Tēple of Idols, at the • ultar, at their ſacrifices, at their maſſes, in aſſiſtinge the wt thy preſence at althoſe, in puttinge of thy cap, making reuerēce, & kneling downe with thē, what other thing thē can I thinke & iudge of the, but that yu doeſt likewyſe reuerēce & worſhip thoſe ſeruices, as I do? And what other thing doth this thine exāple worke in me, but only a cōfirmaciō in myne errour, in wtdrawingine therby frō the trueth of the goſpel? For I ſhall thinke this wt my ſelf: what, behold yonder the Tēporiſour, who hath ſo many yeres fauoured thys new opiniō, yt is now ſuppreſſed & ouerthrowē it cannot be choſen but yt he knoweth al ye ſecretes therof, & yet ſe now he chaūgeth his opiniō & cōuerteth vnto vs, yt which truely he woulde not do, yf he wer • not thorowly perſwaded, yt he was ſeduced & abuſed by ye new goſpel whiche he lately profeſſed, & now knoweth certainly yt we haue ye trew goſpel, & yt we are the trew church: god defēde yt euer I ſhould forſake this church and religion: yea, we ſhal wel perceyue ſhortly yt al thoſe yt are ſeduced wil come home agayn to their mother holy church frō yt which thei haue ſo lōge ſtraied. Cōſidre here, Tēporſour, what great occaſiō of euil thou geueſt by this thine exāple vnto the ſimple & ignoran •• te people, who haue ye zeale of god, but not according to knowledge. For to what other end tendeth theſe wordes of Ieſus Chriſte; but • o thy cōdemnatiō,Nota. Math. 18 wheras he ſaith: who ſoeuer doth offēd or cauſe to ſtūble one of theſe litle ones ye beleue in me, it were better for him that a mylſtone were hanged aboute his necke, & ſo to be caſt into ye middes of ye ſea. For this thine example doth not only cōfirme the blind papiſtes in their errour, in hindring thē therby to come to ye knowledge of the trueth, but alſo that worſt i • it doeth hinder and trouble the feyth of thoſe little 〈◊〉 , who haue onely begon to beleue in Chriſt, in putting them in daunger to retourne to the papiſi • e agayne: ſo that by thyne example the co •• ſt of theyr fayth is hindered: perceyueſt thou theſe thinges?

Yea: to much.

I would to God that thou dyddeſt thorowly perceyue it. Harken nowe wherin thou arte offenſyue vnto the religion of God, and vnto • ll the trew profeſſours and conſtant maynte • ers of theſame. Fyrſt of all, thou cauſeſt that the wicked do ſo boldly ſpeake euyl of ſo good a thing, in vtteringe innumerable reproches againſt the ſame, to thende it may ſeme the more • dious and hateful vnto al people. Vnderſtā deſte thou not, that, the more the noumbre are that conſente to vntrueth, (although it be but by diſſumulation) ſo muche the greater is hys power? And the more that vntrueth is maynteyned, ſo much the more is veritie vilipended and oppreſſed? Furthermore by thys meanes the wicked become more importunate, bloudtherſty and cruell, agaynſt the trew religiō of God to confound it, and all thoſe that wyl not abandō theſame. And ſo much the more cruelly do they execute theyr tyranny vpon thē that are conſtāt, as they ſe theyr noumbre increaſed by thoſe that forſake the trueth. Theſe are Tē poriſour, no newfound ymaginacions nor yet vayne cogitacions, but the thing of it ſelf is to notorious & manyfeſt, by the dayly experience, that we haue hereof. How canneſt thou no we ymagine and thinke, that thou offendeſte and hur • eſte nom •• by thyne example, when thou doeſt anoye it moleſte all men thereby, euē the papiſt, the weake chriſtian and me, and ſuche other as I ami for this thy fac • e tourneth alſo to our great preiudice, in bringinge vs into extreame daunger, becauſe we wyll not doe as thou doeſt.

God defend that I ſhould be the cauſe of ſo many great euyls.

I heare horrible thinges.

I do not ſpeake in parables, but do playnely propoſe the thing, as it is to be conſydered. And thou doeſt well, my frende Temporiſour, to deſyre God to preſerue thee from beyng the cauſe of ſo many euyls. But beware, leaſt thou onely requyre theſame with ye mouth, without the conſent of thy harte, & purpoſe to amende.

As farre as I can perceyue, thou conſtrayneſt me, to communicate no more at the papiſticall ſeruyces, oneleſſe I wyll damne my ſelfe wyllingly, and alſo miniſter greuous offences vnto other.

Euen ſo I do exhorte and counſay I thee.

But I know dyuers that haue another maner of iudgement. Some hold opinion that yf I wente not to theſe papiſticall aſſembles, I ſhoulde myniſter occaſion of offence vnto the weake & ſimple. It is not me • e (ſaye they) that • e do gewe offence vnto the rude & ignoraunt: but it is an offence to contemne the common & ue • ine ſeruices. For the ſimple by this occaſiō do thinke euyl of vs, as mocker • • f the chriſtiā religion, exteming vs to be he rety • es, and enemyes of the Churche. Or at leaſte wyſe they are prouoked by oure example to leaue theyr publyke ſeruyces, whiche they as yet exteme to be holy and lawefull, and in ſo doyng ſinne agaynſt theyr conſciences. To thende therfore that we doe not myniſter ſuche occaſion of offence, we oughte to go to theyr ſeruyces, tyll ſuche tyme as they are more playnelye inſtructed in the trueth of Gods worde, and doe abandon theſame by theyr owne proper conſent, as we haue done. Furthermore ſome doe ſtaye them ſelues vpon the facte and example of Naaman the Syrian, Nicodemus and Ioſeph, who were the ſecrete diſciples of Ieſus Chriſt. Yf it were not greuous vnto the, Euſebie, I would deſyre thee herein to heare thyne aduyſe.

It is eaſye to aunſwere vnto theyr dreames. As touching the offence, which thou pretēdeſt, It behoueth vs fyrſt of al to obſerue the difference betwixt the offence that is takē without any iuſt occaſion, and the offence that is geuē, whether it be takē, or no: To know (I ſay) whiche of theſe two is ſinne. The offence, taken wt out occaſiō miniſtred, is, whē that any man is offended wt that which of it ſelf is both good & lawful, as whē the facte is ſuch yt thereby thou oughteſt rather to imitate the ſame, then to be offēded ther wt. And this is the offence yt thoſe do alledge for their excuſe ye purpoſe to accōpany the papiſtes at their ſeruices, leſt haply the ſimple & ignoraūt people would be offēded yf ther did not come thither. But (I affyrme) yt • e that doth not come to theſe papiſtical ſeruices, he doth ye thing yt is neceſſarely required to his ſaluatiō, & worthy the zeale of a chriſtiā. And this exāple is ſuch, that it hindereth not: & although ſome do find thē ſelfes greued & offended therwt, it is theyr fault, & procedeth frō thē ſelfes, & not frō the example geuē: for they may not leaue the thing ye apperteyneth to their ſaluatiō, for any offēce ye other may gather therby For yf we ſhould leaue vndone al thoſe thiges, wherof the wicked gather offence, thē muſt we bandon the pacience & benignite of almightye god, the which alſo the impenitent do abuſe to their owne dānation. We muſt alſo laye a ſyde the great liberalite of ye father of houſhold, mē cioned of in the goſpel, who gaue aſmuch vnto him yt wrought but one houre in his vineyard, as he yt cōtinued al the day, nothing regarding the offence yt the wicked & enuious perſons did gather therof. Let thē alſo accuſe ye prophetes, Chriſte, the Apoſtles & martyrs, becauſe they did not accōmodate & frame themſelues, to the vulgare & common doynges of other. And fynallye becauſe that the wicked maye gather no offence: is it therfore lawful that the godly do renounce and forſake the bountie of the deuine maieſtie, in prouoking his indignacion againſt thē ſelues: were this expedient thinkeſt thou? Wherefore yf I refrayne to damne my ſelfe, with thoſe that reſiſte the trueth, and prouoke the pacience of God, do I euyll? God forbyd. Yf we maye not do euyll,Roma. iij that good may come thereof, howe muche leſſe then oughte we to doe euyll, whē no goodnes can proceade thereof, but rather much euyll: aſwell to them that doe it, as to thoſe that ſee it? The offence that is geuen, whether it be taken or no, is, when we do any vnlawefull thinge, or els thoſe thinges that are indifferent, whē they are ſo done that they do offend the infyrme & weake, for whoſe ſake we ought to abſtaine, although otherwiſe it lyeth in our powers to doe them, not onelye voyde of ſinne, but alſo vnto edification. This kynde of offence beyng geuē, is very haynous, although noman be offended therewith: for yf • oman be offended, that is rather to be imputed vnto the free conſcience of the beholders, (who mighte yf they would, haue gathered an offence thereof,) and not vnto him, that on his behalfe dyd myniſtre the occaſion of offence: vnderſtandeſt thou Temporiſour, thys difference of offence?

Verye well.

Vnderſtandeſte thou alſo, whiche is euyll, and which is not?

Suffycyentlye.

You put me nowe in remembraunce of dyuers that are offended at the mariage of Preſtes, but none are offended, that for the moſte parte they are all geuē ouer vnto filthy whoredom, and common adulterye without al ſhame leauinge dyuers deteſtable examples thereof, by the which all degrees of people are greately corrupted, and cauſeth the common tyttle of oure Chriſtianite to be infamed and yll repo • red of, euen amongeſt the infydelles. This is the thinge, that alwayes hath greued me.

Thou ſpeakeſte wel, Irenie. Is it mete, that • Chriſtian man fearinge GOD, do avſtrayne from lawefull mariage, becauſe he would not offende the ignoraunte: and in the meane tyme polute him ſelfe wyth whoredome, the nexte waye to depryue himſelfe from the Kyngdom of GOD? What greater follye coulde there be? Herein may ye beholde the excuſe of thoſe that would haue vs go into the aſſemble of the papiſtes at theyr ſuperſtitious ſeruyces, becauſe we ſhould not offend the papiſtes: but oure duery is, to doe directelye contrarye, as it hath bene ſayde before.

Hetherto Euſebie, thou haſte ſufficientlye proued, that the excuſes (the which I haue alledged) to auoyde offence, ſerueth nothinge to this purpoſe. I woulde gladlye heare nowe thyne aduyſe, as touchinge the examples of Naaman, Ioſeph, and Nicodemus: for theſe examples are alledged of all thoſe, that wyth me do communicate at the papiſtical ſeruices, onely with the body, and not with the ſpyryte, and truely for my part when my cōſcience dyd accuſe me of my doynge in this behalfe, I alwayes called to my remembraunce the example of theſe men, for the probation of my facte.

It is requyſite that theſe examples be diligently wayed and conſidered, the which thing cannot be forthwith accompliſhed: wherefore myne aduiſe is that we do refarre the ſame vntyll oure next meting and collation.

I am therewith very well contented, for I haue nowe certayne buſynes that calleth me home, that beyng done, I wyl retourne agayn: when, and where, it ſhall pleaſe you.

Seyng you both haue thus determyned, I wyl not gayne ſay it: but tell me Euſebie, whē maye we come together agayne to fyniſhe and ende this queſtion?

To morow at this tyme, yf it pleaſe you.

I am contented. To morowe then, ye ſhall fynd me (God willing) in this place at ye houre appoynted.

The tyme, and the place, pleaſeth me well.

I thanke you both of your good wyll, yf euer it lye in my facultie, the occaſion ſo myniſtring, I wyll ſhowe you the lyke.

I wyll go before. Folowe you at your pleaſure, God be with you both.

God kepe thee my frend, Irenie, we wyl folowe thee by and by.

YF theſe examples of Nycodemus, Ioſeph of Ara •• thia, and Naaman the Sirian, the which I, and my ſemblables are accuſtomed to vſe, do not bring vnto me ſome preſent conſolation, I am vtterly vanquiſhed and ouercome, I know thē no way to eſcape. I cannot tell, howe hereafter wardes to excuſe my ſelfe, neyther towardes God, nor my conſcience. And I doubt greatly that they beyng narowly ſcanned and conſidered, wyll lyttle ſerue for my purpoſe. For here before when I began to vſe them for myne excuſe, me thought alwayes they ſemed vnto me to weake, to defend this my diſſimulacion: yet we dyd alwayes alledge them agaynſte thoſe that dydde reproue oure doynges, fearinge to leaue oure wickedneſſe vncouered and naked. This is the cuſtome of oure fleſhe,The cuſtome of the fleſhe. for ſhe can not abyde the reprofe of ſhame, althoughe ſhe do both feele and knowe hyr nakednes, but ſeketh all poſſible meanes to couer the ſame. But yonder me thinke I ſee comming both Euſebius and Ireneus. I am happy that I dyd accō pany my ſelf with them, for they are both tractable and gentle: and therefore I wyll not be affrayde to purſew this matter both boldly & freely. What my frendes are ye come already? I came but euen nowe hether to prepare thys place for your comminge.

There neded no ſuch diligēce, for the place of it ſelf is very commodious and pleaſaunt.

That is trew. But herein I thought it good to ſhow my good wyl towardes you. But thou Euſebius, as farre as I can perceyue, yu comeſt not vnarmed.

Not ſo muche as hauinge about me a little knyfe, neyther doe I prepare my ſelfe vnto the warre, but vnto a louing and frendly collatiō.

And yet me thinke thou arte not withoute weapons for the ſame, for eyther I doe abuſe my ſelfe, or els the boke that thou haſte in thy hande, is a ſworde of the ſpyryte.

Now I vnderſtand what thou meaneſt Tē poriſour, I was yeſterdaye lykewiſe armed wt theſame, although as then I had not this bugget, the which I haue now brought, therby the more dyligently to examyne by the ſcriptures the examples of Nycodemus, Ioſeph, and Naaman the Syrian.

Theſe weapons Ireneus, were more meter for your Biſhoppes, thē thoſe which they haue vſed of late yeres to murther ye ſhepe of chriſt.

When we do reprehende theſe vyces wyth innumerable other, through ye which ye church of Chriſt is deſtroyed, thē are we by thoſe Biſhoppes condemned for heretikes, and iudged to ye fyre, but now tyme ſerueth not to bewayle thoſe thinges, as alſo we ſhall profyte nothing therin:Math. v. for ſalte ones beynge corrupted cannot be reſtored to perfection agayne. The Lorde wyll come ſhortely into iudgement, and reken with thoſe wicked ſeruauntes to theyr eternal damnacion.

Let vs refarre thoſe people vnto the iudgemente of God: and yf it pleaſe thee, Euſebie, I praye declare to what ende theſe examples of Nicodemus, Ioſeph, and Naamā the Syrian tende vnto: the which, not onely I my ſelf but alſo all moſt all other doe alledge for their excuſe, namelye thoſe that for feare of puniſhmente of the hygher powers doe go vnto the papiſticall ſeruices.

I am right well content. But declare fyrſte of al, howe you do alledge theſe examples for your purpoſe and profyte.

Wheras for feare of the wicked, we diſſemble our opinion touchinge the papiſticall religion, in communicating with them at the ſame: we thinke we may lawfully doe it, and oughte not therof to be reprehended as of an vnlawfull fact: ſeyng that it is manyfeſt that the like hath bene done by dyuerſe godlye men before vs,Iohn. iij. as witneſſeth the Scriptures, who as we rede,Nicodemus. were neyther reproued nor condemned therfore. Nicodemus was not ignoraunt of ye trueth, and he loued very well Ieſus Chriſte, who alſo had him in good reputacion, and yet all this notwithſtāding, he fearing the Iewes dyd diſſemble theſe thinges, neyther dyd he withdrawe him ſelfe from the company of the enemies of chriſt.Iohn. xix. Ioſeph. The lyke thing is mencioned of Ioſeph of Aramathia, who as ſayth ye ſcriptures was a ſecret diſciple of Ieſus chriſt, & yt for feare of the Iewes, amōgeſt whō he liued. It is lykewyſe ſpecifyed of Naamā ye Siriā. That the Prophete Elizeus dyd graunte hym leaue,4. Reg. 5. Naaman that he beyng in the Temple of Remmō before ſtraunge Goddes, for the aſſiſtaunce of his Kyng, to knele downe, notwithſtanding yt by an excellent myracle, he was lately come to the knowledge of one only trew God: yf theſe men mighte then lyue ſo withoute offence, I would gladly vnderſtand from thee, wherfore theyr examples, doeth nothing helpe our matter? They kept theyr fayth ſecrete in their hart, and outwardlye dyd communicate with thoſe whō they knew to be aduerſaryes to the truth. They dyd thē in al thinges like as we do now: I meane, I and my ſemblables. Yf this diſſimulatiō (as thou calleſt it) did not hinder their ſaluation, wherefore then is it damnable vnto vs? is God chaunged, in condemning now, the thing that he before ſuffred in his children? I thinke it not to be trewe. For euen as he is alwayes one, and immutable, euen ſo cannot his determinacion chaunge more at one tyme, then at another.

Thou reaſoneſt ſtrongely, Temporiſour.

Thou thinkeſt ſo: but haue a lyttle pacience and thou ſhalt iudge otherwyſe.

Myne argumentes are ſuche Euſebie, as dyuers doe thinke them very ſtronge.

Becauſe that they are pleaſaunte vnto the ſy •• efull fleſhe, therefore do ye gredelye imbrace them, and deſire more that they might be fyrme and ſtronge, then that ye thinke them ſo in dede. For eyther I am greatly abuſed, or els ye do wittingly deceyue your ſelues. But now let vs come to youre argumentes, and to begin withall, I do admoniſhe you of one thing: that is, that all thoſe that vſe to alledge theſe argumētes for theyr excuſe, are not in one lyke ſtate and condicion, although they do acknowledge theſame trueth that we doe. With the harte ye loue the goſpel of God, but outwardly ye communicate with the papiſtes: hytherto ye agree together, but on the other ſide there is a difference, for ſome of you haue publykely renounced the papiſme, and haue theſe certaine yeres freely approued the doctryne of the Goſpel, as I, and other haue done. But nowe temptacion beyng come, they leaue the euāgelike churches and retourne to the papiſme and papiſtrye, to thende they may lyue the more without daunger in this world: and thou arte Temporiſour, one of this company. The other ſort, although in theyr hart they acknowledge the trueth,Inglande cannot pleat this excuſe. yet dyd they neuer publykely confeſſe the ſame nor maynteyne it, neyther yet renounced the exteriour communication with the papiſtes, but ſtyll perſeuer in theſame hytherto, of whiche ſorte there is in the world no ſmall noumbre: & namely in this lād of Almany. Who is he that doeth not now perceyue the great difference yt is betwixt theſe two ſortes of people, and that to no purpoſe, they doe both alledge for them ſelues the examples of Nycodemus, Ioſeph, and Naaman the Syrian? And fyrſte, as touchinge thee, Temporiſour, and thoſe that are lyke vnto thee: who haue preſently forſakē the trew religiō,The trew Image of Ingland. ye which ye haue publikely mayntayned, and are now reuoulted & tourned backwarde into theſame myre and puddle, frō the which ſometyme ye were yſſewed out, & delyuered. Truelye theſe exāples of Nicodemus & of the other two, do nothing ſerue for your excuſe, nether do ye in any reſpecte imitate theyr doynges. For yf theſe exāples might ſerue for the defence of any diſſimulacion, yet ſhould it not ſerue for your ſyde: but rather for thē of ye other party. Who, as they did neuer publikely profeſſe the goſpell, ſo can they not be accuſed of any reuoulting or renoūcing in that behalf. The thing is apparaūt & without cōtradictiō. For whē as Nicodemus & Ioſeph dyd diſſemble theyr fayth for feare of ye Iewes, they were but newly come vnto this doctrine, hauing the ſame onely inwardly incered in theyr hartes, without ether as yet forſakinge the iudeiſme, or els publikely ioyning thēſelues to the fayth ful cōgregaciō of Chriſt. What lyke thing find they now here in the example of theſe two mē wherby thei may iuſtely excuſe their doinges: thoſe (I ſaye) that of late dyd publykelye auouche the Goſpell and are nowe reuoulted from theſame, in tourninge to the papiſticall ſuperſticions, as dogges vnto theyr vomete? And that which I haue ſpoken of Nicodemus and Ioſeph maye alſo be veryfyed of Naaman the Syrian. Who beynge a Panim was newly come vnto the knowledge of God, with out euer beynge vnited vnto the ſociete of the people of God and theyr religion: yea, he was altogether newe and younge in his fayth and in the knowledge of god, who had healed him. Conſydre now I praye you, howe much thys his example ſerueth to couer the facte of oure diſſembling Chriſtians: who not onely for the ſpace of many yeares haue bene perfectely inſtructed in the trueth, by ſincere doctryne, but alſo vnyted and knytte vnto the ſame by holye Sacramentes purely myniſtred? Is ther any apperaunce or lykelyhode herein?

As farre as I perceyue by thy communicacion, they defende them ſelues very poorely.

I harken, and vnderſtande all.

I pray thee my frend Tēporiſour, tel me by thi cōſcience. In the beginning whē thou didſt tourne frō the papiſme, dydſt thou neuer call to thy remembraunce theſe examples? werre thou not then as ingenious and wytty to ſowe figge leaues together to couer thy ſelf, as thou art nowe? And wherefore? for (thou ſayeſt) it was not then nedefull: for the reuoultinge frō the papiſme, required no ſuch defence and coueringe. But nowe yf ye mighte retourne agayne to the papiſme withoute ſynne by outwarde communicacion, contentynge youre ſelfes to beleue onelye wythe the harte, ye mighte more iuſtelye haue remayned in the papiſme withoute forſaking theſame,A greate cōdēnaciō to al thē yt haue refuſed ye papiſme, and now ioine thē ſelues ther vnto agayne. in reſeruing your fayth ſecretely in your hart, and aſwell might ye haue defended then youre diſſimulatiō by theſe examples, as ye do now. Who compelled you to forſake your auncient religion? Truely the feare wherewith preſentlye ye are aſtonied, doth moue ye more to retourne agayne to the ſuperſticions ones forſaken, then dyd at the firſt, the charitie and deſyre of vniō moue you to come to the trueth: in aſmuche as agaynſt your conſcience ye are nowe declyned agayne to your former communicacion, of ſuperſticions and falſe ſeruices.

Thoſe then are not culpable, that haue not as yet forſaken the outward ſociete and felowſhip of the papiſtes, although they haue vnderſtanding of the trueth, but do perſeuer ſtyll in this communicacion, the which not withſtanding they do not allow in theyr hartes?

I ſaye not ſo Temporiſour: But rather by this communicacion do labore to admoniſhe you, how vnaptly ye do applye to your behofe theſe examples of Nycodemus and Ioſeph.Ingliſhe diſſemblers can not iuſtly alledge ye exāple of Nycodemus for theyr excuſe. As touchīg the Nicodemiſtes herein they differ from you, that although they be not voyde of ſinne, yet (I ſuppoſe,) that they doe not ſynne ſo greuouſly as ye doe. Wherfore to the ende ye may more playnely perceyue that your facte cānot be excuſed by theſe examples. I wil leaue you, and examyne the cauſe of thoſe that more iuſtly may be called Nicodemiſtes, then you. Who, yf they cannot be excuſed by theſe examples, as it ſhall notably appeare: thē may we eaſely deſerne and iudge how litle theſame ſerueth for your defence. For yf theyr doynges be damnable, & can fynde none excuſe by theſe examples, there is no man ſo voyde of vnderſtanding that doeth not eaſelye perceyue, that much leſſe is your facte excuſable, and cannot be compared to the examples of Nicodemus, Ioſeph, and Naaman the Sirian.

I perceyue well to what ende thou pretendeſt Euſebie. Thou ſhalt do me great pleaſure to examine this matter narowly.

Let vs fyrſt conſydre the doynges of Nycodemus and Ioſeph.Where to tende the examples of Nicodemus & Ioſeph. In theſe examples there is ſomethinge to be reprehended, ſomethinge to be excuſed, and ſomethinge to be prayſed and commended. This thing is to be reprehended, that they fearing the Iewes, more thē God, durſt not confeſſe the trueth which they dyd know, and durſt not ioyne them ſelues to Chriſt amōgeſt his faythful flocke, but hiding almoſt theyr fayth, dyd yet communicate with the enemies of Chriſt. Confeſſeſt yu this poynt Temporiſour?

Yea: proceade.

This thing in their doynges was excuſable: that the ſeruyces whereat they dyd communicate were not the ordinaunces of men, but of God, and therefore not vtterly to be diſpyſed as thinges odious and ſuperſticious, and all though the tyme dyd approche wherein they ſhould be aboliſhed: yet, as then it was not manifeſted & openly knowē, but remayned ſo obſcured & hyd, that many yeares after the reuelaciō of the goſpel, the multitude of the faythfull in Ieruſalē were yet deteyned vnder theſe legall obſeruacions, as it playnely appeareth in the boke of the Actes the .xi. Chap. Thou agreeſt to theſe thinges alſo Temporiſour?

I cannot gayne ſaye it.

Fyrſt of al then, this thing in thē was worthy prayſe, for that in theyr hartes they dyd approue and allowe the veritie, which other princes dyd impunge and condemne: furthermore alſo for that they dyd not conſent and agre wt the Phariſeis in theyr Sinagoges, conſulting agaynſt Chriſt, but dyd withſtande theyr determinaciōs to the vttermoſt of theyr powers. As S. Luke mencioneth of Ioſeph of Aramathia in his .xxiij. Chap. and S. Iohan of Nicodemus in his .vij. Chapter. Thyrdely when as the maieſtie and glorie of the goſpell of God, ſemed to the outward appearaunce to be vtterly ſubdued and ouerthrowen: to wyte, whē as Chriſt was crucified & dead, & his Apoſtles, the one hauing betrayed him, the other denied him, and the reſt forſaken him, al this not with ſtanding, theſe worthy perſons wtout any maner of diſſimulaciō did thē boldly declare both to Pilate, & to the highe Preſtes & Phariſeis, theyr fayth & confidence, in him whō they had crucifyed by the begging of his body, & buryinge theſame ſo honorablye as was poſſible, Canſt thou impunge, or haſte thou any thinge to replye againſt theſe thinges, Temporiſour?

Nothing at all. But do meruayle greately, where about thou goeſt?

That is eaſye to be perceyued.

Harken, and I wyl tel thee whether I pretende: we haue peruſed and conſydered what it is of the example of Nicodemus & Ioſeph, wherby dyuers thinke to couer ye diſſimulaciō of theyr religion,Nicodemiſtes. whō we wyl call Nicodemiſtes, becauſe it ſhall not nede often to vſe anye circumlocucion. This example conteyneth thre thinges. The firſt is, reprehenſible, the ſecond excuſable, and the thyrd commendable. Now I demaund of thee Tēporiſour, which of theſe thinkeſt thou, that a man fearing God, oughte to folowe?

The aunſwere is ready: to wyte, the thyrd, the which euery chriſtiā harte acknowledgeth to be onely commendable, both before God & man.

Thou aunſwereſt well. For to this end ſerueth all examples, namelye, to ſtyre vp in vs a certayne imitacion and folowing. But we may not imitate and folowe theſe thinges that nether are of them ſelues, nor yet cannot bee in vs commendable and prayſe worthye. And therfore it behoueth vs to vſe a great diſcreciō in folowing the examples of Saynctes, to deſerne betwene the doynges that are commendable, and thoſe that are vyciouſe & culpable: hauinge nede of pardon by the grace and mercy of God in Ieſu Chriſt. For it were a prepoſterous & pernitious imitaciō that a Publicane ſhould alledge for his excuſe the exāple of S. Mathew: or an adulterer, the example of Dauid: a reuoulter and denyer of the truth, the example of S. Peter: or a dronkarde the dronkenes of Noah, for to couer theyr ſynnes by the examples and dedes of the Sayntes. Why rather doe they not folowe the conuerſion of S. Mathew, the great repentaunce of Dauid and Peter, & ſobriete of Noah? But let vs ſe what thing the Nicodemiſtes do folowe in the exā ple of Nicodemus, and for what purpoſe they doe alledge theſame. Truely they doe it for nothing els, but thereby to excuſe theyr facte: but that thing nedeth no excuſe, that deſerueth no blame, but is worthy prayſe: as when they doe receyue into theyr hartes, with them, the veritie of Chriſte, the whiche the Princes of thys world do ſo extremely perſecute, and do not by any meanes agree and conſent with thē to ſubdue & ſuppreſſe theſame. But herein they pretend theyr excuſe, in that they fearing mē more then God, do not vnitie and ioyne them ſelues publikely to the truth, according to theyr faith and knowledge, in renouncing and forſakinge the papiſticall ſeruyces, which they condemne in theyr hartes: but by a wicked diſſimulation do communicate at theſame agaynſt theyr conſciēces. And for to excuſe this theyr ſimulatiō, they do alledge the examples of Nicodemus & Ioſeph, not in that thinge, that they dyd worthy prayſe, but in that thing, wherin they ſynned: namely in theyr diſſimulatiō and feare of man. As yf the ſynnes of the Sayntes, mighte ſerue to excuſe oures. Vnderſtandeſt thou Tē poriſour?

Yea.

Agreeſt thou alſo there vnto?

Truely I do not allowe thoſe, that doe rather alledge for examples the thing that is wicked, then that which is cōmendable: but for all that I thinke it cannot be denyed, but that we may excuſe the infirmitie of our fayth, by the infirmitie of the Sayntes, without being iudged and condemned for wicked, more thē they: or as people hauing renoūced the knowē veritie, becauſe we dare not publykelye confeſſe theſame.

Thou acknowledgeſt and confeſſeſt the infyrmitie of fayth that reſteth in the Nicodemiſtes: but now is it mete & conuenient I pray the, that weakelinges, do alledge the infirmite of the Sayntes, therby to excuſe theyr ſynne & infyrmitie? or rather oughte they not to accuſe them ſelues, and with plentie of teares and all humilitie to haue recourſe vnto the throne of grace, thereby to obtayne remiſſion of theyr ſinnes, and confirmacion of fayth?

Thy reaſon is ſtrōge, Euſebie, I cannot replye agaynſt it.

Truely Euſebie, I do not heare theſe thinges vnwillingly.

Lette vs conſydre furthermore thys one thing: that Nicodemus and Ioſeph dyd communicate at the ſeruyces and ceremonies of ye lawe, according vnto the commaundemente of God: in the which ſeruyces there was no impiete, ſuperſticion nor falſyte: but the Nicodemiſtes of our tyme, do communicate at the papiſtrye, beyng full of the falſe ſeruyces of the ſayntes departed, of Aungelles and of Idols, with an infinite noumbre of other ſuperſticions, that dayly prouoke vnto wrath the longe pacience and benignitie of almightie GOD. Wherefore I praye thee Temporiſour, what agreement is there thinkeſt thou, betwene the doynges of Nichodemus and Ioſeph, & oure counterfeyte Nicodemiſtes?

In myne opiniō, none at all, for I perceyue now wel ynough, the greate difference that is betwene them. But for all that dyuerſe men, (therby the better to couer theyr fact) do apply the thing that is worthye reprehenſion in the papiſtical ſeruices vnto a good vſe, ſayinge: yt the principall effecte thereof is dyrected vnto God, and to his ſonne Chriſte. And although there be dyuers humayne inuencions to much ſuperſticiouſli added thereunto, yet for al that the trew and perfect ſeruice remayneth whole and ſound.

Howe maye that be?

Paraduenture, Irenius can tell thee better thē I: for I neuer had them as yet in ſuch eſtimacion as I thought them worthy, to be commended to memorye.

Aſmuch as I can remembre, I wyll reſyte. Fyrſt of al they ſaye,Of ye papiſticall baptiſme and affyrme that the papiſticall baptiſme maye be ſupported as it is miniſtred, becauſe that the ſubſtaunce of the ſame: to wyte, the worde and the water remayneth, notwithſtandinge the ſuperſticions annexing thereunto of oyle, ſpittle, creame, ſalte, candle, cryſome, and exorcyſme: not withſtanding alſo the latyne interrogations after the ſymbole of the Apoſtles, and the ignoraunte aūſweres of the witneſſes or god fathers there preſent in the behalf of the chylde, beynge all together done in a foreyne language not vnderſtanded of the aſſyſtaunces. As tonchinge the Maſſe,the maſſe they ſaye that they maye go there vnto without ſynne, for although it be repleniſhed with diuerſe ſuperſticious ceremonies inuented by the biſhops: yet notwithſtādinge it doth ſtyl retayne the principall effecte of the inſtitucion of Chriſt: to wyte, the Sacrament of the bodye and bloude of the Lord. As concerning Idols, they aūſwere,Of ydols yt they paſſe not of the Images of wood, of ſtone, of golde, nor of ſiluer. The which they knowe well ynough, by the worde of God, ought not to be worſhipped: neyther are they ſet vp, to be ſerued & honoured, but onely to helpe the memorie, to the ende that the laye and ignoraunt people maye be prouoked by the remēbraūce of the ſayntes, to imitate theyr liues.Of ſinginge. As touching their chaū ting and ſinging, they lytle paſſe and regarde, wherfore or to what end the papiſtes do ſing: for they in the meane tyme do pray vnto God, according to theyr fayth in commending themſelues vnto him. This is almoſt the effect of al that euer thy alledge for theyr excuſe.

Yf it were not for the preſent queſtion that I haue to aūſwere, I would Ireneus, examine theſe theyr particular excuſes, and proue manifeſtly, that they in ſo doyng, doe ſynne more greuouſly then any other. But thou Temporiſour, knoweſt thou not that theſe theyr excuſes are moſt deteſtable and wicked?

I confeſſe. I know the ſame to be moſt trew.

Another tyme, the lyke occaſion beyng myniſtred, I wyll declare my iudgemente in that behalfe.It is neceſſari for vs to knowe wt what churche we do communicate. In the meane tyme cōſidre a lytle this one thinge. Theſe fooles paſſe nothinge at al • with what Church they do communicate, ney • ther with what Prelates, and Preſtes they d • aſſociate them ſelues, at theyr deuyne ſeruices • They thinke it ſufficiēt to reteyne ye ſubſtaūc • thereof, although the appendaunces annexed thereunto be manifeſtly wicked. For whereto ſerueth all theyr ceremonies in theyr Temple, but onelye to ſeduce theyr auditore, in makinge them lyke vnto themſelfes: to wytte, ſimoniacques, fornicatours, ydle bellies, • koffers, and ſlaughtermē of ye poore ſhepe of Chriſt, beyng condemned by theyr owne decrees, that whoſoeuer heareth the maſſe of ſuch a one, he committeth moſt abhominable and greuous ydolatrie, nether do they paſſe any thing at all of yt which is ſpoken by the mouth of the prophete. I haue hated the congregation of the vngodly: Neyther wyll I ſytte downe with the wycked. But let vs leaue them there, and retourne to our matter. I praye thee now Temporiſour tell me, is this example of Nicodemus & Ioſeph ſufficiently examined, or deſireſt thou yet to know any other thing therein?

Nomore, for this preſent.

Lette vs come nowe then to the example of Naaman the Syrian.Naaman

We thinke our ſelues to haue herein a great ſtaye.

Let vs conſydre now, whether it ſerueth any thing for your purpoſe, or no. Let vs ſe the ſtorye which is in the .iiij. boke of the Kinges, the .v. Chapter. This example is alſo partelye commendable, partely excuſable, and partelye reprehenſible: it is cōmendable, in that he doth not attribute ye power of his myraculous healing of his leproſye, nether vnto the water, nether vnto Eliſeus: but vnto the onelye God of Iſrael. And furthermore he dyd immediatlye acknowledge and cōfeſſe, that there was none other God, but the God of Iſrael: by this confeſſion reprouing all other Goddes, as vayne and falſe. And thyrdly in that he proteſted and purpoſed to do no more ſacrifice vnto none other Goddes, but onely vnto the Lorde, in vtterly renouncing the ſuperſticious ſeruyces of al ſtraūge goddes, the which he had ſerued in tyme paſt, in aſmuch as he was thē fully perſwaded, yt they were no Goddes, but ye workes of mens hādes. Theſe are his doynges, where in he is to be cōmended & prayſed, beſyde that he dyd not ſhowe him ſelfe ingrate & vnthākefull towardes the Prophete. This is excuſable in his fact, in that he requyreth to haue the burthen of two moylles, of the earth of Iſrael, for to make an aulter, vpō the which he mighte ſacrifice vnto the god of Iſrael. God truly hath no regarde vnto thoſe thinges. But in aſmuch as in that tyme the people ſerued God by outwarde ſacrifyces, thys good man knewe not howe to ſhowe forth hys fayth and newe religion of hys harte, then by doyng ſo as he ſaw it requyſyte amongeſte the Iſraelytes. But thys is reprehenſible,Vnderſtā de this ſo farre, as that he could not dwel and ſerue him ther, with out offending of ye Lorde. that he hauing acknowledged and confeſſed one onely trewe GOD, dyd not forthwith withdrawe hym ſelfe, from the courte and ſeruyce of hys King and mayſter: but (remayning ſtyl in hys eſtate) dyd his accuſtomed ſeruyce towardes the Kyng: yea, and that namelye in the Temple, where as ſtraūge Goddes were worſhypped, the which aboue all other thinge he oughte to haue deteſted and abhorred, conſyderinge hys former proteſtacion and promyſe. This faulte alſo he hym ſelfe acknowledged and confeſſed in hys facte. For marke what he ſayd vnto the Prophete. There is one thing, for the which I deſyre thee to praye the LORDE for thy ſeruaunte, that when my mayſter goeth into the Temple of Remmon for to worſhippe, and he leaninge vpon myne arme, yf I doe worſhyppe alſo, that the LORDE wyll be mercyfull vnto his ſeruaunt, becauſe of this thing. Theſe wordes declare euydentlye, that he dyd knowe, that he coulde not wythoute offence, from thence forthe bowe hys knee in the Temple of Remmon: no, not for the ſeruyce of the Kynge hys mayſter, in aſmuche as he had proteſted before to worſhyppe none other, but the one onely trew GOD of Iſrael: and therefore he deſyred the Prophete, that he woulde praye to God for him. He did not as then thorowly purpoſe and determyne wyth him ſelfe to doe ſo:Nota. that is, to worſhyppe in the Temple, but fearinge, leaſte he ſhoulde not be ſuffered to exempte hym ſelfe from hys offyce, he ſayd not, I wyll worſhyppe: but, yf I doe worſhyppe in the Temple of Remmon, that is to ſaye: yf I cannot relinquiſſhe and forſake myne offyce. Alſo I vnderſtande thys ſeruice of hys to bee an inclynacion and ſubmiſſion that he vſed towardes the Kinge, and not a ſeruyce that he purpoſed to doe vnto ſtraunge Goddes: which thing is eaſye to be vnderſtanded by the circumſtaunce of the text, for he did not ſaye abſolutely, yf I do worſhip in the Tē ple of Remmon: but, when that my Lorde the Kyng doeth entre for to worſhip, etc. The Ebrew worde, which we call (worſhippe) ſignifyeth properlye, to inclyne and bowe the knee. This good faythful man had now no deſyre to worſhip any more the God Remmon, but for aſmuche as he knew that it was not ſufficient, to abſtayne onelye from the worſhippinge of ſtraunge Goddes in his harte, oneleſſe he dyd alſo abſtayne from all outwarde appearaunce of adoration; therefore he aſketh pardon of the ſame, praying that the Lorde would diſpence with him in his facte. Theſe thinges are ſo manifeſt in this hyſtorie, that euery one that readeth it, doeth forthwith perceyue it, excepte it be the Nicodemiſtes. Now I pray thee, Temporiſour, what thing is there herein that maye ſerue for thy defence, and other thy felowes?

This thing truely maketh for vs, in that, all though he did acknowledge the trew God, yet neuertheleſſe, he fearing to offend his Kynge, dyd accordinge to his accuſtomed maner, (all though it were nowe agaynſte his wyll) worſhip in the Temple of Remmon in aſſiſting at vnlawfull ſeruyces.

But that is not certaynly knowen whether he dyd ſo, or no▪ For he ſayd: yf I worſhip in ye Temple of Remmon. And yet ye conclude that he dyd as welworſhip after his conuerſion as he dyd before: what maner of conſequence is this? (becauſe he ſay dyf I do worſhip) therby to conclude that he dyd worſhip▪ But I admyt he dyd worſhippe: yet were 〈◊〉 but a 〈◊〉 reprehenſible: the which, as I haue declared before, yt ought not to alledge any example of any reprehenſible facte of any Saync • e, to imitate & folow theſame. And yf ye wyl all gates be the folowers of the thing that is reprehenſible, at leaſt wayes ioyne this alſo therunto, (pray ye the Lord to pardon youre diſſimulacion,) but ye cannot doe that, oneleſſe fyr • te of all ye confeſſe the faulte, and then ſorowe earneſtlye in repentaunce: but this laſt part • hindereth you greatly to aſke pardō, for ye your ſelfes know that ye ought not to hope for pardon of anye ſynne, with •• t repentinge the 〈◊〉 , and yf ye dyd vnfaynedly repent it then would ye indeuour your ſelues to leaue it.

We extem • this fault (yf at leaſtwyſe there be any) to be very lighte and tollerable, and to be amongeſt the noūbre of the ſynnes, that are called veniall.

Ye do then 〈…〉 your ſynnes, whē that ye cannot all together couer them.we ought not to couer oure offences. But howe much better were it to waye them a litle more, to the ende ye mighte the rather be occaſioned thereby to leaue your faultes, • nd more ſurely obtayne pardon for the ſame? It is not the propertie of a noble and faythfull harte, to ex ••• nuate and mitigate his owne faultes.

But the Prophete him ſelf dyd not make ſo much a doe aboute this matter, as I perceyue thou doeſt.

How ſo?

Open the boke, and reade therein, what aū ſwere he made vnto him.

I wyll reade it. The texte ſayth thus, (vnto whō he ſaid: Go in peace.) What thing gathereſt thou hereof?

What? That the Prophete dyd not iudge, that Naaman ſhould ſynne, yf for the fauoure of his mayſter he dyd worſhyp in the Temple of Remmon, orels that his ſynne was ſo ligh • and venial, that God would eaſelye pardō the ſame▪

This is your expoſicion, becauſe it pleaſeth you beſt, in aſmuch as it ſemeth to permit your ſinnes to remayne vnpuniſhed. But I pray the my frende Temporiſour, what did this Syriā demaund of the Prophete?

That he would pray vnto the Lord for him that he would pardon him, yf euer he did worſhyp in the Temple of Remmon.

What aunſwered the Prophete?

Yea forſoth, to that which he demaunded. He aunſwereth not concerninge the pardon, which is only in the handes of God, but onely concerning his prayer: to were, that he would praye vnto the Lord for him, according to hys requeſte. So that we cannot hereby conclude, that ſuch kynd of worſhipping ſhould be voyd of ſinne. The which thing, yf it had bene trew, aſſure your ſelfe, the Prophete would playnelye haue tolde him theſame, to thende that he ſhould make no conſcience of ſynne in ye, where in there was no ſynne.

In this poynt I agree with thee.

Thou ſeeſte then, that there is ſynne, in ſo doyng.

I confeſſe it.

But yu eſtemeſt it to be ſuch, as the lord wyll eaſely pardon the ſame?

Euen ſo ſemeth to ſignifye the conſentement of the Prophete.

It behoueth vs diligentelye to conſydre in the perſonne of this Syrian, certayne circumſtaunces and cauſes, (which diffre greatly frō you,) which alſo moued the Prophet to accord ſo eaſely vnto him his demaund, in ſuffering him to departe in peace. The which nothing agreeth wt your diſſimulacion, although you do alledge this exāple neuer ſo oftē, thereby to couer your ſynful ypocriſie withall.

I haue touched them partelye here before. Fyrſt he was a ſtraunger, a Syrian, a Panim, and one that was in high eſtate & greate reputacion with his Kynge and countrey,A compariſon betwene Naaman and oure Temporiſours. & newly come to the acknowledge of God: yea, he was a new and tender plant in the fayth of one onelye trew God, and was not as yet vnyted and ioyned with the people of God by any Sacramentes, wherby he could not, nor ought not to be burthened wt ſo great & wayghtye thinges, as thoſe that were more ſtronger and perfect: beyng inſtructed and noriſhed of long tyme in the trew fayth amongeſte the people of God. Furthermore he dyd proteſte and ſweare that he would neuer ſerue more any ſtraūge Gods, but the onelye God of Iſraell: in teſtimonye wherof, he toke the burthen of two ••• oylles, of the earth of that laud, for to make therwith an aulter vnto the God of Iſrael: the which thing the Prophete would not a permitted and ſuffered an Iſraelit •• to haue done, in aſmuche as it was not lawfull for a Iewe to ſacrifice vnto God in any other place, thē in yt which he had appointed and choſen. Wherfore as vnto a Pany • & not vnto 〈◊〉 Iſraelite: he permitted vnto him that thing, wh •• h he would not haue gra 〈◊〉 ̄ ted vnto an Iſraelite. For the Prophete exte ••• d it a greate •••• rdnes in the Syrian, that in condemning all other ſtraunge Goddes, he had acknowledged & confeſſed the onely trewe god of Iſrael, in proteſting to ſerue him only. It was not (I ſaye) withoute a cauſe that the Prophete dyd ſo greatlye exteme theſe beginninges in the conuerſion of a Panim. And that as touching the reſte, he did ſo well incourage him, promyſing to demaund of God pardō for him. I pray thee Temporiſour, what wouldeſt thou do, yf that ſome great Lorde out of Turkye, for the lyke occaſion came hyther amōgeſt vs: and he, by ſome lyke myracle beyng cōuerted to the chriſtian faythe, and to the acknowledginge and confeſſinge of one onelye Ieſus Chriſte, the onely ſonne of God, and onely redemer of mankynde: and then would proteſt & ſweare, that frō thence forth he woulde cōtemne the Mahometicall religion as falſe, & cleue vnto the onely religion of Chriſte. And yet not withſtanding, would requyre that it might be pardoned hym, yf at any tyme through the occaſion of his office, he dyd come with his prince vnto the Temple of Mahomet, and there he leaning vpon his arme ſhould alſo be conſtrayned to knele downe with him? What thing (I ſay) wouldeſt thou doe in this caſe? wouldeſt thou not aunſwere the ſelf ſame thing that the Prophete here aunſwereth vnto the requeſt of the Syrian?

Pardon me, Temporiſour, in that I ſpeake my conſcience. Truely thou ſhouldeſt doe very foliſhlye and vngentillye yf thou dyddeſt not aunſwere euen as the Prophete dyd.

But now conſydre on the otherſyd, yf ther be any reaſon of excuſe for a Chriſtian: that after he hath longe tyme cōmunicated wt the myſteries of Chriſt, & beyng perfectely inſtructed in the knowledge of the Kingdō of God, & of the grace of ye Goſpel, would require the ſame to be graūted vnto him, that the Prophet hath permitted vnto this ſtraūge Syrian, and that thou lykewyſe wouldeſt permit vnto the Turkiſhe Lord, after thou hadſt wayed the circumſtaūce of the cauſe and perſon? Thinkeſt thou that your ſinne is to be compared vnto the infirmitie and frayltie of Naaman the Syrian? Doeſt thou not remēbre this ſentence: to whō much is geuen, much of him ſhalbe requyred? What man is ſo farre depriued of vnderſtanding, that wyll requyre aſmuch of a chylde, as of a mā? or of a young plant, as of an old tree? Euen ſo truely, hath piete and godlynes their increaſinges & growinges: for we doe a greate deale more eaſelye ſupporte the infyrmitie of thoſe that are beginners, then the remiſſe negligence of thoſe that are, or ought to be further inſtructed. What ſayeſt thou here vnto, Temporiſour?

I agree vnto all that thou ſayeſt: I am vanquīſhed and ouercome by the manyfeſt trueth.

Doeſt thou acknowledge thē, that theſe Nicodemiſtes haue nothing now in the examples of Nicodemus, Ioſeph, & Naamā the Syriā to couer theyr ypocriſie withall, but contraryewyſe, that the infyrme & new fayth of theſe i .ij is a greate deale greater & more better, then is theyrs?

I do acknowledge it, & cannot withſtād it.

Tell me then, yf that thoſe whiche haue not as yet outwardely renounced the papiſme (all though that in theyr harte they do fauour & allow the goſpel, yet for al that they haue not as yet publikeli cōfeſſed theſame) yf thoſe (I ſay) do not fynd in theſe examples any thing to excuſe theyr diſſimulacion, as before I haue proued? how then canſt thou and thy ſemblables, who haue of long tyme publykely cōfeſſed the Goſpell, and renounced the papiſme, couer or defend by theſe examples youre great ypocriſye in declyning from the trueth?

I cōfeſſe vnfaynedly, that there is nothing in theſe exāples that maketh for oure purpoſe, in aſmuch as our cauſe is waightier thē theirs: ſo much the leſſe then, do theſe examples ſerue vs, then them. But tell me, what ſhall I doe?

What is it yt thou aſteſt of me? did I not ſhow thee before?The laſ • e counſayl. My counſayl is that thou doe as thou ſeeſt me do. I admoniſhe the in ye name of Ieſus chriſt, yt thou ſearche nomore excuſes for thy ſinnes: but cōfeſſe thy fante, and forſaking the ſociete of all vnlawefull and ſuperſticious ſeruyces, ioyne thy ſelfe wyth thoſe that walke dy • ectely in the trew religion of Chriſt. Praye alſo the Lorde to pardon thy tranſgreſſion, in that thou haſte abuſed by thyne example thy weake brethren, offended the ſtronger, and confyrmed the ydolater in his ydolatrye. Thou haſt hereof many notable examples, for to appeace and aſſure thy conſcience agaynſte all the barkinges of the wicked and vngodlye: which ſhall ſerue thee for thy better confyrmacion, then thoſe abuſed examples that thou haſt hytherto alledged. Folowe rather the example of the Prophetes and Apoſtles, and dyuers other godli men, that haue alwaies by outward fact declared the inward fayth of theyr harte: and dyd not as yet make any ſeparatiō betwen the interiour and exteriour communicacion in religion. Why rather doeſt not thou allow and folowe the example of Tobias in the which is no reprehenſiō,Tobias. thē thoſe which hyther 〈◊〉 thou haſt alledged to couer thy ſynnes withall? Tobias, although he was the yōgeſt of his 〈◊〉 be and lynage, and although the Iewes of the .xij Tribes went to the golde Calues of 〈◊〉 , he fled from al theyr companies, and went vnto Ieruſalem, vnto the Temple of the Lorde, wheras he dyd worſhip (according to the law) the Lorde God of Iſraell. Thoſe whoſe companye he auoyded, were alſo Iſraely • es aſwel as he, and dyd boaſt of the trew God▪ & of his trew ſeruice, aſwel as he, in cōdēning al thoſe▪ that for to ſerue the Lord, woulde go to Ieruſalem, (in aſmuch as the Lorde was no accepter of perſones nor places.) I praye thee Temporiſour, tell me, why dyddeſt thou not aſwell choſe this example, wherin there is no vice nor thing worthye of reprehenſion (but cōmended by the ſcriptures) aſwel as the other?

What is it that thou enquyreſt, Euſebie? the aunſwere is readye. Nicodemus, Ioſeph, and Naamā dyd pleaſe vs better, becauſe that theyr exāples ſemed better to agree wt the eaſe of oure fleſhe, & to cōtinue • s in a more worldly ſecuritie, then the example of Tobias.

For aſmuch now, as thou vnderſtādeſt that poynt ſufficiētly. Tell me what doeſt thou frō hence forth purpoſe to do?

I purpoſe by Goddes grace to withdrawe my ſelfe from all Ipocriſye and ſuperſticion, vnto the confeſſion of the trueth, & for aſmuch as this determinaciō is mixte with many daū gers: I moſt inſtantly deſyre the Lord to pardon and forgeue me myne offences paſte: as alſo that he wyll vouchſafe from hence forth to fortyfye my fayth agaynſt all the aſſaultes of the deuyll.

The Lorde confyrme thee in this thy purpoſe: That agayne at the fyrſte brunt thou doe not recule backe and geue place vnto the enemy, as one vtterly diſmayed and aſtonied. Remembre alwayes the thinge that I dyd admoniſhe thee of in our fyrſt collaciō, to wyte, that thou do in tyme withdraw thy ſelfe from this diſſimulacion: otherwyſe thou art in daunger to loſe the pricke of thy conſcience, that doeth as yet continually admoniſhe thee, & ſo to fall into an obſtinate blyndneſſe,We muſt in time wt draw our ſelfes frō al papiſtical ſuperſticiōs, ether by lyfe or by exile and flighte, yf we wyl anoyde deſperacion the end of diſſimulacion. and hardneſſe of harte, & finallye into deſperacion. For I praye thee Temporiſour (conſydre dyligentlye with thy ſelf) what other thing can they attend and loke for, that beyng ſo vtterly abaſhed & afraid at the threateninges of a miſerable & corruptible man, do agaynſt theyr owne cōſciences cō municate at vnlawfull ſeruyces: but that alſo whē the deuyl ſhal aſſault them more greuouſly and cruelly, they muſt nedes be ouerthrowē blynded, and brought into extreme deſperacion? Thou knoweſt yt fall of theHofmaiſter the munke in germany. Frauncis Spera in Italy. Mayſter Hayles in Inglād are the terrible exā ples of Goddes iuſtice vnto althoſe that do any thinge agaynſt ye teſtimoni of theyr cōſciēces. Mōcke Hofmayſter, in this land of Germanie: & of Fraū cis Spera in Italie, who are the greate admonicions of God, to thoſe nacions, to be vygilant in the worke of the Lord, cōſtant in fayth, pacient in afflictiō, and by no meanes agaynſt theyr conſciences to denye the truth. Happy is he, that can be warned by other mennes daungers.

I geue thee hartie thankes of this thy great diligence vſed towardes me. In that thou haſt vouchſaued to preſerue & wt draw frō ye mouth of ye wolf, a poore ſtrayed ſhepe.

For aſmuch as thy cōſcience is ſuch Tēporiſour, I cānot geue the beter cōſayl, thē vtterly to deuide & wt draw thy ſelf frō our aſſembles, tyl ſuch tyme as thou wayſt vnderſtand more playnly, yt therein is nothinge contayned that may hindre thy ſaluaciō: & euē as I do coūſayl thee, ſo would I do my ſelf, yf I were ſo perſwaded as thou art.

Thou doeſt Irenie, as a mā of a modeſte & mylde nature. I would to the lord yt thou didſt thorowly vnderſtād this cōtrouerſie in religiō I wil not refuſe at any tyme whē it ſhal pleaſe the, to cōfarre wt the in this behalf, to thy further edificacion.

I thāke the Euſebie, as yet I do not greatly fantaſye ye matter: but yf hereafter at any time my hart be inclined thereunto, I wyll not forget thy great modeſtie & fidelite, but ſo muche the rather deſyre thy cōpany.

My frende Euſebie, for aſmuche as by the prouidēce of God, I am by thy meanes induced to relinquiſhe & forſake al pap • ſtry, I pray thee do not leaue oftē to come & viſite me at my houſe, cōtinually to aſſiſt myne infirmite with ſome comfortable Scripture of the grace of Chriſt.

I wyll doe it gladly. The Lorde confyrme thee.

His peace, make an ende of all this controuerſye, that ſo much troubleth the church.

Amē, euen ſo be it. Amē. The peace of chriſt is not of this worlde, ſhe is not voyde of the verytie of GOD, ſhe defendeth no errours, ſuperſticions, falſe ſeruyces nor any other execrable ſynnes, nor yet the Tyrannye of falſe Chriſtians, but contrarywyſe ſhe doeth pacifye the conſciences of the faythfull towardes GOD, and then amongeſt them ſelues. The ſame peace my frende, Irenie, make the • a trew and perfect Irenie, that is to ſay, peaceable and a louer of peace.

I deſyre it withall my harte.

I thanke ye both, that it hath pleaſed you to aſſemble here, at myne inſtance. I offer you my ſeruyce, and commende my ſelfe vnto your prayers.

Let vs praye God, one for another, I wyll go home to my houſe, you maye folow when it ſhall pleaſe you.