The furst chapyter

¶The letter of credence sent from hys frende by a trusty secret messenger [...] wyth the letter of y ^e authore answeryng y ^e same. The declara [...]yō of of y ^e credence by the mouth of y ^e messenger whereuppon the mater of all the hole worke dependeth.

¶The second chapyter

¶ Here sūmaryly is declared what order the Author intendyth to trete of the matters purposyd vnto hym. wherof because the fyrst was an oppynyon conceyued in some mennys heddes that a certayn parsōlate ab­iured [Page vi] of heresy for preching against pilgrymagys & ymagis and prayers made to sayntꝭ was therin greately wronged / y ^e author breuely declareth hys mynde concernyng the confuta­cyon of those perylouse and perny­cyouse opy [...]yons.

ON y ^• morow whan he was cū ­men agayne sumwhat before vii. of the clocke (for so I ap­poynted hym) takyng hym wyth me in to my stody / and my saruantys war­ned that yf any other shulde happen to desyre to speke wyth me / certayne excepte of whome I gaue theym knowlege / they shulde dy [...]erre theym tyll a nother leysor / I sett hym downe wyth me at a litle table. And then I shewed vnto hym that where he had purposed on your byhalf in short wordys many long thyngꝭ wherof the rehersall were losse of tyme to hym that so well knew theym all redy / I wolde all suꝑ [...]iuous recapytulacyon sett aparte / as brefely as I conuenyently coulde / shew hym my mynde in theym all. And fyrst by­gyn where he bygan at the abiuracy­on of the man he spake. Secūdly wold I touche the condempnacyon and burnyng of y ^e new testament traunslated by Tyndale. Thyrdly sumwhat wold I speke of Luther & hys secte in generall. Forthly and fynally y ^e thyng that he touched laste that is to wytt y ^• wart and fyghtyng agaynst infydelys wyth the condemnacyō of heretyques vnto deth / whych twoo poynty [...] hym selfe had combyned and knytte to gether. ¶And fyrst as touchyng the mater of the mannes ab [...]racyon where it is reported that the spyrytualtye dyd hym wrong. And for to make that seme lykly there is layed in theym displeasure / malice & [...]y toward hym [...]or peech [...]ng as ye say quod I agaynst theyer vycyouse lyuyng / And in hym is on the tother syde alegyd myche connyng ver­tue and goodnes. I wyll neyther enter in to the prayse of theym nor in to the dyspreyse of hym / wherein standyth nothyng theffecte of thys mater / For if the [...]e dyd / I wold not passe ouer sū parte therof so shortely.

¶But now for thys mater all though the hole spyrytualtye / wherin no man dowtith to be [...] [...]any a ryght vertuous and godly man / were in theyre lyuyng farr wors than deuyllꝭ / yet yf they did that mā no wrong / there hath for this matter no man agaynst them eny caus to cōplayn. And ouer thys yf that man were in all hys other lyuynge as inno­cent as a saynt / yet yf he were infected & fautye in these herysyes / he had than in thys matter no wrong. And yet be­syde all thys yf he not onely were in all other thyngꝭ very vertuous / but also were of all thoese heresyes whereof he was detected vtterly clene and fautles / yet yf it were by suffycyent wytnes / were they neuer so fals in dede / seming honest and lykely to say trew / prouyd in opyn courte that he was fauty ther in / albeyt in suche case hys wytnessys had wronged hym / yet had hys iudges done hym but ryght. And therfore let­ting passe as I say y ^• praysse or dysprayse of either hys iudgꝭ or him / as thyng­ys impertinent to y ^• point / I will shew you y ^t they not onely dyd hym no wrong / but also shewed hym / in my mynd the gretest fauour / And vsed toward hym the most charytable [...]rcy y ^t euer I wy [...] vsyd to eny man in [...]uch case. And fyrst as for any wron [...] y ^t hys iudgi [...] did hy [...]/I mer [...]ell me [...] wher in they that report yt could assygn [...] it. for yf [...]ny were done him [...]it must n [...]ꝭ [Page] haue ben in one of the twoo thyngys / eyther in that he was vntruly iudgyd to haue pchyd such artycles as he was detectyd of where he pchyd none such in dede / or ellys in that sum such arty­cles as he prechyd were iudeged & con­demned for heresyes where they were none in dede. Excepte that any man wolde say that though he were proued and conuyctyd of heresye yet he shuld haue bene put to no penaunce at all or ellys to no such as he was. And of that poynt if eny mā so thynk / I shall speke in y ^• fourth parte where we shall towch in generall the ordre that the chyrche takyth in the condemnacyon of herytyques. But as for the tother poyntys fyrst if eny preest wrote owte of londō in to your cuntraye that eny such artycle of hys prechyng was by hys iude­ges declared for herysy as were in dede good & not ageynst the fayth of crystys chyrch / lett hym name what artycle / And eyther ye shall fynde that he shall name you such as y ^• man was not charged wyth all / or ellys shall ye fynde y ^t such as he shall name you were such in dede as your selfe shall pceyue for heresyes at your ere / For y ^• artycles where wyth he was chargede were y ^t we shuld do no worshyppe to eny ymages / nor pray to enyseyntys / or go on pylgry­magys / whyth thyngys I suppose eue­ry good crystyn man wyll agre for he­resyes. And therfore we shall lett that poynt passe and so resort to the secund [...]o se why [...]her it were well prouy [...] that he preched them or no. Syr quod your [...]end I wold for my parte well agree theym for [...]rysys / but yet haue I ha [...] some or thy [...] that wold not d [...] so [...] And therfore w [...]an we [...]all they [...] herysye [...] it were well [...] to tell why / [...]ythse [...] men wold (I we [...]e yf they myghte [...] hard) [...]tyffly say nay / whych now hold theyre pease & bere theym selfe full col­dely that wold take y ^e mater more hote saue for burnīg of theyr lyppys. Now forsoth quod I who so euer wyll say y ^t these be no heresyes / he shall not haue me to dispute it which haue no cūning in such maters / but as it best becūmyth a ley man to do in all thyngys / lene & cleue to the comem fayth / and byleue of crystꝭ chyrch. And therby do I plaī ­ly know it for an herysye / if an herysye be a secte and a syde way takyn by any part of such as bene bap [...]ysyd and bete the name of crystyn men frō the comē fayth and byleefe of the hole chyrch besyde. For thys am I very sure and per­ceyue it well not only by experyens of myne one tyme & the placys were my selfe hath bene wyth commen report of other honest mē from all other placys of crystyndome / but by bokys also & rememberauncys lefte of long tyme wyth wrytyng of the olde holy fathers and now sayntys in heuyn / that from thappostles tyme hytherto this maner hath ben vsyd / taught & allowed / and the contrary comōly condenyd throgh y ^e hole flok of all good crysten people. ¶And as touchyng such textꝭ as thes [...] heretykys allege agaynst the worshyp­pyng of ymagys / prayeng to sayntys / and goyng ō pylgrymages / as they ley the law geuen to the Iewes. Non faci­es tibi s [...]u [...]p [...]e / [...]how shalt carue the none ymag [...]. And the psalme. In e [...]i [...]u Israell [...] de egipto / And s [...]l [...] deo honor et gloria / only to god be honor & glory. And ma [...] dictus [...]ui cōfidit in homine. Accursed is he that putteth hys truste in man wyth many suche other lyke / whych herytyques haue of old euer ha [...] ked agaynst chrystys catholyk chyrch / very su [...]e am I y ^t saynt Austen / saynt [...] [Page vii] hierome / saint basyle / saint gregory w ^t so many a godly cunnyng mā as hath ben in crystis church from y ^e begynyng hytherto / vnderstod those textꝭ as wel as dyd those heretyques / Namely ha­uyng as good wittꝭ / beyng farr better lernid / vsing in stody more diligence / beyng an hepe to an handfull / & which most ys of all hauyng / as god by many myracles beryth wytnes / besyde theyr lernyng the lyght and clerenes of hys especyall grace / by whych they were in­wardly taught of hys only spyryt to ꝑceyue that the word is spokyn in the old law to the iewys people prone to Idolatry / and yet not to all theym nether / For the preestys than had the ymagis of thangell cherubin in the secret place of the temple / shulde haue no place to forbyd imagis among his crysten flok / where hys pleasure wold be to haue y ^e ymage of hys blessed body hāgyng on hys holy crosse / had in honour and re­uerent remembraunce. where [...] wold vouchsaufe to send vnto the kyng abiagarus the ymage of hys owne face / where he lykyd to leue the holy verna­cle thexpresse ymage also of hys blessid vysage as a token to remayn ī honour amōg such as louyd hym from y ^e tyme of hys bytter passyon hytherto. whych as it was by the myracle of hys blessid holy hād expressed and lefte ī y ^• sudari / so hath yt bene by lyke myracle in that thyn corruptyble cloth kepte and pre­seruyd vncorrupted thys .xv.C. yere freshe and well perceyued to y ^e īwarde cumfort / spyrytuall reioysyng & grete encreace of feruoure and deuocyon in the hartꝭ of good crysten people. Crist also taught hys holy euangelyst saynt luke to haue an nother maner mynde toward ymagis than haue these here­tyques / whan he put in hys mynde to counterfete and expresse in a table the louely vysage of oure blessed lady hys mother. He taught also saynt amphibalus the mayster and techer of the holy fyrst martyr of englond saynt albane to bere about and worshyppe y ^• crucy­fyx. who shewed also saynt albane him self in a vysyon y ^e ymage of y ^e crucyfyx but god: whych thyng wrought ī that holy man so strongly / that he with few wordꝭ of saynt amphybalus at y ^• sight of that blessed ymage whych our lorde had before shewid hym ī hys slepe was clene turned to chrystendome / And in the worshyping of y ^• same ymage was taken and brought forth to iudgemēt & afterward to marterdome.

¶And there ys no man but yf he loue a nother he delitith ī his ymage or enythyng of hys. And these heretyques y ^t be so sore agaynst the ymagis of god & hys holy sayntis wold be yet ryght angry with [...]n y ^t wold dishonestly han­dle an ymage made in remembraunce of hī self / where y ^• wrethis forbere not vilanously to handle and to cast dyrte in dispyte vppon the holy crucyfyx an­ymage made in remembraunce of our sauiour hym selfe / and not only of his most blessyd ꝑson but also of hys most bytter passion.

¶Now as touching prayer made vn­to the sayntis and worshyp done vnto theym / mich meruayle is it what cause of malice these heretykꝭ haue to them. we se yt commen in the wreched cōdy­cyon of thys world that one man of a pride in him self hath enuy at a nother or for displasure done / beryth to some other malyce and euyll wyll. But this must nedꝭ be a deuelish hatred to hate him whom thou neuer knewist / which neuer did the harme / which if he could now do y ^t no good where he is / yet ey­ther [Page] wyth hys good ensample gone before the / or hys good doctryne lefte by­hynde hym / doth the / but if thou be very nought of thy self / gret good ī this worlde for thy iorney toward heuyn. And thys muste nedys be an enuy cū myng of an hye deuelyshe pryde and far passyng thenuye of the deuyll hymself / for he neuer enuyed but such as he saw & was conuersaunt wyth / as whā he saw man and the glory of god. But these herytyques enuye theym whome they neuer saw nor neuer shall se but whan they shalbe sory and ashamed in theym self of y ^t gloryouse syght / ¶For where they pretend the zele of goddys honour hī [...]elf / as though god to whō only all honour and glory is to be ge­uen / were dyshonored in that sum ho­nour is done to hys holy sayntys / they be not so mad nor so chyldyshe as they make theim self. For if all honour were so to be geuen only to god y ^t we shulde gyue none to no creature / where were than goddys precepte of honour to be geuyn to our father & mother / to pryncys / gouernours & rulers here in erthe / And as saynt Poule sayth euery man to other ¶And well they wote that the chyrch worshyppeth not saītys as god but as goddis good saruauntis / & therfore the honour that is done to theym redoundeth pryncypally to y ^e honour of theyr mayster / lyke as in comē custū of people we do reuerence sumtyme & make great chere to sum men for theyr maysters sakes whome ellys we wold not happely byd ones good morow. ¶And surely if eny benefite or almes done to one of crystꝭ pore folke for hys sake / be by hys hygh goodnes reputed and accepted as done vnto hym self / And that who so receyuyth one of hys aposteles or dyscyples receyuyth hym selfe / euery wyse man may well cōsy­der that in lyke wyse who so doth ho­nour hys holy sayntis for his sake doth honour hym self / Excepte these herytyques wene y ^t god were as enuyouse as they be theym selfe / And y ^t he wolde be wroth to haue eny honour done to eny other though it therby redounded vnto hymselfe. whereof our sauyoure cryste well declareth the contrary / for he sheweth hym self so well cōtent, that hys holy sayntys shalbe pertyners of hys honoure / that he promysyth his a­posteles / that at y ^e dredfull dome whā he shall cum in hys hygh maiestye they shall haue theyr honourable seetis and sytte wyth hym selfe vppon the iudegement of the worlde ¶Cryste also ꝓmised that saynt mary magdalene shulde be worshyped thorow the worlde and haue here an honorable remembraūce for that she bestowed y ^t precyouse oyntement vppon hys holy hed. whych thyng whan I consyder it makyth me meruayle of the madnes of these here­tiques that barke agaynst the old aūcient customes of crystys chyrch / moc­kyng the settyng vppe of cādellys and wyth folyshe facecyes & blasphemous mockery demaunde whyther god and hys sayntys lak lyght or whyther yt be nyght wyth theym that they can not see wythoute candle. They myght as well aske what good dyd that oynte­mēt to christꝭ hed. But the heretyques gruge at the coste now / as theyre bro­ther Iudas dyd than / And say it were better spent in almys vppon pore folk And thys say many of theym whyche can neyther fynde in theyre harte to spēd vppon y ^• one nor the tother. And sum spend sometyme vppon the tone for none other entent but to thēd that they may the more boldely rebuke and [Page viii] rayle agaynste the tother. But let thē all by that ensample of y ^e holy woman and by those wordys of our sauyour / lerne y ^t god delyteth to se y ^e feruēt hete of y [...] hartꝭ deuociō boyl out by y ^e body / And to do hī seruyse w ^t all such goodꝭ of fortūe as god hath geuī mā ¶what ryches deuysed our lord god hym selfe in the making & garnishyng of y ^• tēple & in the ornamentes of y ^e auter and the prestes apparayle / what was him selfe the better for all thys? what for y ^e bestꝭ y ^t hym self cōmaūded to be offred hym in sacryfyce? what for y ^e swete odours and frankensence? why do these heretiques more mocke at y ^e maner of crystꝭ chyrche than they do at y ^e maner of y ^e iewes synagoge but yf they be beter iewes thā crysten mē? ¶If mē wyll say that the mony were better spent amōg poore folke by whō he more setteth / be­yng the quycke temples of y ^e holy goste made by hys owne hand / than by the temples of stone made by the hand of man / Thys wold be percase very trew if there were so lytle to do yt wyth that we shuld be dreuyn of necessyte to leue y ^e tone vndōe. But god geuyth inough for both / And geuyth dyuerse men dy­uers kyndys of deuocyō and all to hys pleasure. In which as thapostle Poule sayth let euery mā for hys parte aboū de & be plentuouse in y ^t kynde of vertu y ^t the spyryte of god guydeth hym to. & not to be of the folyshe mynde y ^• luther is / which wisheth in a sermō of his y ^t he had in hys hād all the perys of the holy crosse / And saith y ^t yf he so had he wold throw them there as neuer sonne shuld shyne on thē. And for what worshup full reasō wold y ^e wreche do such vela­ny to y ^e crosse of chryst? by cause as he sayth that there is so mych golde now bestowed aboute y ^e garneshyng of the pyecys of the crosse that there is none lefte for pore folke. Is not thys ā high reason? as though all y ^e golde y ^t is now bestowed aboute the pecys of the holy crosse wolde not haue faylede to haue bē geuen to pore mē if they had not bē bestowed abowte the garneshīg of the crosse / And as though ther were nothīg lost but y ^t is bestowd about cristꝭ cros ¶Take all y ^e gold y ^t is spent about all y ^e pecys of chrystꝭ crosse thorow chris­tendome / albe it many a good chrystē prince and other godly people hath honourably garnyshed many peces therof / yet yf all y ^t golde were gathered together / yt wold appere a pore porcyon in comparison of y ^e gold y ^t is bestowed vppon cuppys / what speke we of cup­pys? in whych y ^e gold albeit y ^t it be not geuen to pore men yet ys it saued and may be geuen in almouse whan men wyll whych they neuer wyll / how smal a porcyon wene we were y ^e gold about all y ^e pecys of chrystys crosse yf yt were compared with y ^e gold y ^t is quyte cast a way about y ^e giltīg of kniuis / swordꝭ / sporys / arrace / & paynted clothes: and as though these thyngis could not cō ­sume gold fast inough y ^• gyltīg of pos­tys & hole rofes / not only in the palacꝭ of princys and great prelatis / but also many ryght mene mēnes housis. And yet amōg all these thingis coud luther spy no gold y ^t greuously glyterid ī his bleryd eyes but onely aboute y ^e cros of chryst. y ^t gold yf yt were thēs the wyse man wenyth yt wold de streyght geuē to pore mē. and y ^t where he dayly seeth y ^t such as haue theyr purs full of golde geue to y ^e pore not one pece therof but yf they gyue ought they ransake the botome among all y ^e gold to seke out here an half peny or in his countrey a braspeny wherof four make a ferthing / such goodly causes fīd they y ^t ptend holines for y ^e colour of theyr cloked heresyes.

The thyrd chapiter

¶Thobieccions of y ^e messēger made agaynst prayeng to sayntys / wor­shyppyng of ymagys / and goyng in pylgrymagys wyth the answere of the author vnto the same. And incydently is it by y ^e messenger mo­ued that there shuld seme no necessyte for chrysten folke to resort to eny chyrchys / but y ^t all were one to pray thens or there. And that opynyon by y ^e author answered and cōfuted.

AT thys poynt your frend desyryng me that what so euer he shuld say I shuld not rekē it as spoken of hys own opynyon / but that he wold partely shew me what he had hard sum other say therin / to thende that he my­ght the better answere theym wyth y ^t he shuld here of me. Thys protestacyō and prefacyon made / he sayd that albe it no good man wolde agre y ^t it were well done to do [...]nto sayntys or theyr ymagꝭ dyspyte or dyshonor / yet to go in pylgrymagꝭ to theym or to pray to theym not only semyd in vayne consy­deryng y ^• all they yf they can eny thing do / can yet do no more for vs among theym all than chryste can hym selfe a­lone that can do all / nor be not so redy at our hand to here vs if they here vs at all as chryste y ^t is euery where / nor bere vs halfe the loue and lōgyng to helpe vs that doth our sauyour y ^t died for vs / whome as saynt Poule sayth we haue for our aduocate afore the fa­ther / But ouer thys it semyth to smell of Idolatry whā we go ō pylgrymage to thys place & that place / As though god were not lyke strong or not lyke present in euery place / But as the de­uylys were of olde vnder y ^e false name of goddys present and assystent in the Idollys & māmetys of the paganys / so wolde we make it seme that god and hys saitꝭ stode ī thys place & y ^t place to thys post & that post cutte out and car­uyd in imagys. For whā we rekyn our self to be better herd wyth our lord in kent than at Cambryge / at the north dore of Poules than at the south dore / at one ymage of our Lady than at a nother / is it not an euydēt token and in maner a playne proofe that we put our trust and confydence in the ymage selfe & not in god or our lady? whych is as good ī y ^e tone place as the tother and the tone ymage no more lyke her than y ^e to [...]her / nor cause why she shuld fauour the tone bifore the tother. But we blynde peple in stede of god & hys holy sayntys theym selfe cast our affeccyons to the ymagys selfe and therto make our prayers / therto make oure offryngys / & wene these ymagys were y ^e very sayntys selfe of whom our help & helth shuld grow / puttyng our full trust in thys place & y ^• place as negro­mācers put theyr trust in theyr cercles wyth whyche they thynke theym selfe sure agaynst all y ^e deuyllys ī hell / And wene yf they were one ynch wythout / that than the deuyl wold pull theim in pesys / but as for the cercle he dare not for hys erys onys put ouer hys nose. ¶And men reken that the clergye is gladde to fauour thys ways & to no­ryshe thys suꝑstycyon vnder y ^e name & colour of deuocyō to y ^e ꝑell of y ^e peples soules for the lucre & tēporall aduauntage y ^t theym self receyue of y ^e offrigis. ¶whan I had hard him say what hym lyked I demaunded if he minded euer to be pre [...]e / wherunto he answerede nay verely / for me thynketh q he that therbe preestys to many all redy but if they were better. And therfore whā god shall sēde time I purpose he sayd [Page ix] to marry. well sayd I than syth I am all redy married twise & therfore neuer can be pre [...]st / and ye be so set in mynde of marriage y ^t ye neuer wyll be preest / we two be not the most metely to pon­dre what myght be said in thys matter for y ^e preestys parte. ¶ [...]ow be it whan I consyder yt / me thynkyth surely that yf the thyng were sych as ye say so far from all frame of ryght relygyon / and so perelous to men soull ys / I can not perceue why that the clergy wold for y ^e gayn they get thereby / suffer such abusyon to contynew. For fyrst yf yt were trew that no pylgrymage ought to be vsyd / non ymage offred vnto / nor worship done / nor prayour made vnto eny saynt / Than yf none of all these thīgꝭ had euer bene ī vre or now were all vn­done / If that were the ryght way / as I wote well it were wrong / than were it to me lytle question but crysten people beyng in the trew fayth and in y ^e right way to god w [...]rd / wold therby nothīg slake theyr good midꝭ toward the minysters of hys chyrch / but theyr deuocion shuld towarde theym more & more encrese. So y ^t yf they now get by thys way one peny / theye shulde yf thys be wrong and the tother ryght / not fayle ī stede of one peny now / thā to receyue a grote. And so shulde no lucre gyue theym cause to fauour this way and it be wrong / whyle they coud not fayle to wyn more by y ^e right. ¶Morouer loke me thorow christēdome & I suppose ye shal fīd y ^e frute of those offerīgꝭ & right small parte of the lyuyng of the clergy / And such as though sū few placꝭ wold be glad to retayne / yet the hole body might without any notable l [...]sse easily forbere.

¶Let vs cōsidre oure owne cūtre he [...]e / & we shal fīd of these pilgri [...]ꝭ [...] most parte in y ^e hādꝭ of such relygyous ꝑsones or suche pore ꝑryshis as bere no grete rule ī y ^e cōuocacōns [...] & besidꝭ thys ye shal not fīd I supopse y ^t eny bishope ī ēglād hath y ^e ꝓfite of one grote of eny such offryng wythin hys diocyse. Now standeth then the continuaunce or the brekynge of thys maner and custome specyally in them whych take no pro­fyte therby. whych if they beleuid it to be such as ye call it superstyciouse and wykkyd / wold neuer suffer it contynue to the peryshynge of mennys soules / whereby them selfe shuld distroye their owne soules / and neyther in body nor goodys take any cōmodyte. And ouer thys we see that the bysshopp [...] y [...] and prelatys them seluys visite those holy placys and pylgrimages wyth as large offryngys / and as grete cost in cōmīg and goīge as other people do / so y ^t they not only take no temporall aduātage therof / but also bestowe of ther owne therin.

¶And surely I beleue this deuocyō so plantyd by goddes owne hand in the hartꝭ of the hole chyrch / that is to wyt not the clergy [...] only but the hole con­gregacyon of all crystyn peple / that yf the spyrytualtye were of the mynde to leue it / yet wold not the temporaltye suffer it.

¶Now yf it so were that pilgrymagꝭ hanged only vppō y ^e couytyse of euyll prestꝭ / for euyll must they be that wold for couytyse helpe the people forward to idolatrye / than wold not good prestys and good bysshoppys haue vsed thē theyre selues. But I am very su [...]e that many an holy bisshop / & therwith excell [...]ntely well lernyd in scrypture / & the law of god haue had hygh deuocy­on therto.

¶For where as ye say [...] that [Page] yt smelleth of Idolatrye to vysyt this place & that place / as though god were more myghty or more present in oone place then a nother / or that god or his sayntys hade bounden them selues to stand at thys Image or that Image / and that by mēnes demeanure therby shuld appere that the pylgrymys put theyr trust in y ^e place or the Image yt selfe takyng that for very god / or for the very saynt of whom they seke for helpe / and so fare lyke necromancers that put theyr trust ī y ^e cercle / Surely syr holy saynt Austen man epystyll of hys whych he wrote to the clergy and the people takethe pylgrimagys for a more erenest thynge. And sayeth that though the cause be to vs vnknowen why god doth in some place miracles & in sum place none / yet is it no doute but he so dothe. And therin hade that good holy doctor so grete confydence that as he [...]ayeth him self / he sēt twoo of hys prestys in pylgrymage for the tryall of the trouth of a grete matter in contencyon and debate betwene them out of Hyppona in affryke vnto saynt Stephens chyrche in myllayn / where many myracles werre wont to be shewed / to thend that god myght there by sum meanes / cause the truth to be declared and made open by hys power / whych by noo meane knowen to man he could well fynde out /

¶Nor they y ^t goone on pylgrymage do nothynge lyke to those necroman­cers to whom ye resemble them that put theyre confydence in the rundell & cercle on y ^e groūd / for a specyall beloue that they haue in the c [...]pa [...]e of that ground by reason of folyshe [...] and fygure [...] about it withe inuocacyons of euyll spyrytys and famylyary­t [...] with deuy [...]i [...] beyng enmys to god / & the crafte & ways of all that warke by god hym selfe prohibyted and forbodē and that vppon the payn of deth / what lyknes hath y ^• vnto the goyng of good men vnto holy placys not by enchaūtmēte dedicat to y ^e deuyl / but by goddꝭ holy ordynaunce wyth his holy wordꝭ consecratyd vnto hym self. which two thingys yf ye wold resemble to gyther so myght ye blaspheme and haue ī dy­rision all the deuout rytꝭ & cerymonys of the chyrch / both in the deuine seruice as encensyng / haloyng of the fyre / of y ^e funt / of the pascall lambe / and ouer y ^• the exorcysmys / benedyccyons / and holy straunge gesturys vsid in consecra­cyon or mynystracyon of the blesyd sacramētys / all whych holy thyngys gret parte wherof was frome hand to hand left in the chyrch from the tyme of cris­tys apostles and by them left vnto vs as yt was by god taught vnto them / men myght now folyly myslyken vn­to y ^e superstycyous demeanure & fond fassyon of iuglery. Nor the flok of cryst ys not so folyshe as those heretyques bere them ī hand / that where as there ys no dogg so mad but he knoweth a very cony from a cony carued & payn­ted / crysten peple that haue reason in theyre heddꝭ & therto the light of fayth in theyr soulys shuld wene that thimagys of our lady were our lady her self. Nay they be not I trust so madde but they do reuerence to thymage for y ^e honour of the person whom yt represen­tyth / as eury mā delytyth ī thymage & remembraūs of hys frend. And al [...]e yt that euery good crysten man hath a remembryng of crystys passyon in hys mīd & cō [...]yuith by deuout meditaciō a forme & fassyō therof in hys hart / yet is the [...]e no mā I [...] so good nor so well ler [...]ed nor ī meditacyō so well accustomyd [Page x] /but that he fyndyth hym selfe more mouid to pite and compassi­on vppon the beholdynge of the holy crucifyxe than whan he lakkith it / And yf ther be any that for the maītenaūce of hys opynyon wyll perauenture saye that he fyndeth it otherwyse in hym self / he shuld giue me cause to fere that he hath of crystys passyon neyther the tone way nor the tother but a very faīt felynge / syth that the holy fathers be­fore vs dyd / and all deuoute people aboute vs do fynde and fele in thē selfe the contrary

¶Nowe for the reason that you alege quod I / where ye saye that in resorting to thys place and that place / this image and that image / we seme to reken as though god were not ī euery place like myghty or not lyke presēt / thys reasō procedeth no more against pilgryma­gys thā agaīst all the chyrchys ī crysten dōe. For god is as mighty ī the stable as in y ^e tēple. And as he is not cōphēsible nor circūscrybed no where / so is he present euery where / But thys letteth not heuen / be it a corporall thynge or not / to be the place of a speciall manere and kynde of hys presence / in whych hyt lykyth hym to shewe hys glorious magestye to hys blessyd heuenly cōpany which he sheweth not vnto damp­ned wretches in hell / and yet ys he ne­uer thense. So li [...]id it his goodnes to go wyth hys chosen people thorough the deserte ī the cloude by day and the pyler of fyre by nyght / yet was he not bounden as ye resemble it lyke the dā ­ned spyrytys to the olde Idolys of the panyms /

¶It likid him also to chese the arche y ^t was caryed wyth hys people / at which arche specially by miracle he diuers tymes declared hys especyall assystence the arche beyng traunslatyd fro place to place. was it not also his pleasure to be specyally present in hys temple of Ierusalē tyll he suffred it to be distroyed for theyr synne. And in stede of that oone place of prayer to which he wold byfore that all hys people shuld come he hath vouchsaffyd to sprede hym self abrode in to many tēples / and ī more acceptable wyse to be worshypped in many templys thorow oute hys cris­tyn flokke /

¶Here sayde your fr [...]nd that the temp­le of cryste is as saynt poule sayeth mā nis harte / and that god is not included nor shytte in any place / And so hī selfe sayd to the woman of Samarie / that very worshyppers shulde worshyp in spyryte / and in truthe / not ī the hyll or in hyerusal [...]m or any other temple of stone /

¶whervnto I shewed hī that I wold well agre / that no t [...]mple of stone was vnto god so plesaunt as the temple of mannys harte / But yet that nothyng letteth or wythstandyth but that god wyll that hys crystē people haue ī sundry placys sundry tēples and chyrchis to whych they shulde besyde theyr pry­uat prayours assemble solemply / and resorte in company to worshyp him to gether such as dwell so nere to gether that they may conueniently resorte to one place.

¶For albe it oure sauyour sayed quod I vnto the woman of whom ye spake that the tyme shulde come ī which they shulde neyther worshyp god ī that hill of Gezara not in hyerusalem neyther / whych places were after dystroied and desolate / and the Pagane manere of worshyppīg of y ^e tone / & y ^e Iues maner of worshippīg in y ^e tother turnyd both in to the maner of worshypīg of cristē [Page] Fayth and religyon / yet said he not to her y ^t they shulde neuer after worship god ī none other temple / But he said that the time shuld come / and thā was comen all redy whan the very trewe worshyppers shulde worshyp god in spyryt and truth / And that as god is a spyrytuall substaunce / so lokyd he for worshypers that shuld ī such wyse worshyp hym. In whych wordys our sauyour reprouyd all false worship as was vsyd after paganysme ī that hyll in Samaria / and all suche worshyp as was done ī any place wyth opyniō that god myght not be worshyppyd els where. Those y ^t so byleue they be such as bynde god to a place / whych oure Lorde reprouyth / shewyng that god may in hart truly and spyrytual­ly be worshipid euery where. But this excludyth not that besidis that he wil be worshyppyd in hys holy temple / no more thā whan he gaue coūcell that for auoydyng of vaynglorye a man shall not stand and praye in the strete to gather worldely prayse / but rather secretly pray in hys chamber / Thys counsell forbadde not the Iewes to whom he gaue it that they shuld neuer after cum in to the temple / and pray.

¶And suerly albeit that sū good mā here and there one among .x. thousād as saynt Poule and seynt Antony / & a fewe such other lyke / do lyue all he­uenly far out of all fleshly cumpany / as far from all occasyō of worldly wrechednes / as from the comen temple or parysh chyrch / yet if chyrches & cōgre­gacyōs of crystyn peple resortīg to gether to goddꝭ seruyce were onis abo­leshed and put away / we were lyke to haue few good tēples of god ī mēnys soules / but all wolde wythin a whyle weare away clene and clerely fall to nought. And thys preue we by exper [...] ­ence / that those which be the best tēples of god in their soules / they most vse to cum to the temple of stone / And those that lest cum there be well knowen for very rebaudys and vnthryftys / and opēly perseyuyd for temples of the de­uyll / And thys not in our dayes only / but so hath been from Crystys dayes hether / I trowe no man doutyth but that Crystys appostyls were holy tēp­les of god in theyr soules / And well vnderstode y ^e wordis of theyr master spo­kyn to the woman of Samary / as the thyng whych theyre mayster after told them hym selfe / or elles how colde sum of them haue wrytyn that cōmunyca­cyon whyche none of them hard as apperyth by the gospell. But they not in theyr maysters days ōly / but also after his resurrexyō and after that they had reseyuyd the holy gost / and were by hī instructyd of euery truth longyng to y ^e necessyte of theyr saluacyō / were not content only to pray secretly by them self in theyer chambers / but also resortyd to y ^e tēple to make theyre prayers / And ī y ^• place as a place plesāt to god dyd they pray in spyryte and in truth / As well apperyth in the boke of saynt Luke wryttyn of the Actys of Crystes holy Apostellys / So that no doute ys there / but that yet vnto thys day and so forth to the worldys ende / it is and shalbe plesaūte vnto god / that hys chosen people pray to hym and call vppō hym in temple and chyrch. whereof hī selfe wytnessyth wyth the Prophete / Domus mea domus orationis vocabitur. My house shalbe called ā house of prayer. ¶Now makith your reason as I sayed no more agaynst pylgrymagꝭ than agaynst euery chirch. For as god is not bounden to the place / nor oure [Page xi] confydence bounden to the place but vnto god though we rekē our prayour more plesaunt to god in the chyrch thā wythout / by cause hys hygh goodnes accepteth it so / in lyke wyse do not we reken our lorde bounden to y ^e place or image where y ^e pylgrymage is though we worshyp god ther bycause hym self lykyth so to haue it.

¶The .iiii. chapiter.

¶Th [...] author declareth in y ^e cōpro­bacyon of pylgrymagys that yt ys the pleasure of god to be specyally soughte & worshypped in some one place byfore a nother. And albe that we can not attayne to y ^e knowledge of the cause why god doth so / yet y ^e author proueth by greatte authoryte that god by myracle testyfyeth yt ys so.

wyth thys your frēd asked me what reson were there y ^• god wold sette more by one place than by a nother / or how know we y ^t he so doth namely yf the t [...]ne be a chyrch as well as the tother. ¶whereunto I answered that why god wold do yt I coulde make hym no answere no more thā saynte austen sayeth that he coud. I was neuer so nere of his coūsell nor dare not be so bold to ask hym / but that he so doth in dede y ^t I ā sure Inoughe. yet not for that he settyth more by that place for the soyle and pauement of y ^e place / but that hys pleasure in some place is to shewe more hys assystence and to be more specyally sought vnto than in sum other. ¶Thā he as [...]ed me wherby was I so sure of y ^t. wheruppon I demaunded hym that yf it so were y ^t the thyng stādyng in debate & questyō / it wold lyke our lord to shew a myracle for the proffe of the tone parte / wolde ye not quod I reken than the questyon were decyded / & y ^e dowte assoyled / and y ^t parte suffycyently proued [...] yes mary quod he that wold I. well quod I than ys thys matter oute of doute lōg a go. for god hath ꝓued my parte in dyuerse pylgrymagꝭ by the workyng of many moo thā a thousād myracles one tyme and other. In the gospell of Iohn the fyft chapiter where we rede that the angell moued the water / & who so next went in was cured of hys dysease / was it not a suffycyent profe that god wold they shuld cum thether for theyr helth / Albe yt no man can telle why he sentt thāgell rather thyther & there dyd hys myracles than in a nother water? But whan so euer oure lorde hathe in any place wrought a myracle / all though he nothīg do it for y ^e place / but for y ^e honor of y ^e saynt whom he wyll haue honored in y ^t place / or for y ^e fayeth y ^t he fyndeth wyth some that prayeth in that place / or for thencrease of fayeth whych he fyndeth fallynge and decayed in that place nedyng the shewe of sō myracles for the reuyuyng / what so euer y ^e cause be / yet I thynke thaffeccyon is to be cō mended of men and women y ^t w ^t good deu [...]cyon rōne thether where they see or here that our lord sheweth a demōstracyon of hys specyall assystēce. And whan he sheweth many in [...]one place / it ys a good tokē y ^t he wold be sought vppon and worshypped there. Many iewes were ther that cā to hyerusalem to se y ^e myracle that chryst had wroght vppon lazare as the gospell reherseth. and suerly we were worse than iewes yf we wold be so neclygent that where god worketh myracles / we lyste not [...]ons go moue our fote thetherwarde. we marueyle moch that god shewethe [...]omoo myracles nowe a dayes / whan [Page] yt ys mych more maruell that he doth vouchsaufe to shewe any at all among such vnkynde slouthfull dedely people as lyst not oones lyfte vp theyr heddꝭ to loke theron / or y ^t our incredulyte cā suffer hym nowe adays to worke eny.

¶The .v. chapiter.

¶Because pylgrimagꝭ be amōg o­ther ꝓuys testyfyed by myracles / y ^e messēger doth make obieccyō agaīst those myracles / partely lest they be faynyd & vntrew / partly lest they be done by y ^e deuill if they be dōe at all

THā sayd your frēd / well I ꝑseue thē y ^• force & effect of all y ^e ꝓfe stādyth all in myracles / whych I wyll agree to be a strōg ꝓfe yf I saw thē dō and wer sure y ^• god or good sayntꝭ did them / But fyrst syth y ^e mē may & hap­pely do of myracles make many a lye / we must not proue thys matter by the myracles / but yf we furste proue y ^t the myracles were trew. And ouer thys yf they were doon in ded / yet sith y ^e āgell of darknes may trāsforme & trāsfigure hym self / in to an āgell of lyght / howe shall we know whether y ^e myracle were don by god to thēcrease of crystē deuocyō / or dō by y ^e craft of y ^e deuyl to thaduaūcemēt of mysbyleue & idolatrye / in settyng mēnys hartys vppon stokkys & stones in stede of sayntys / or vppon sayntys them self that are but creatu­res in stede of god hym self.

¶I answered hym that the force off my tale was not the myracles / but y ^e thyng y ^t I hold stronger thē any myra­cles / whych as I sayed in y ^e begynyng I rekē so sure & fast & therw ^t so playne & euydēt vnto euery crystē mā / y ^t it ne­deth no other profe / and y ^e thyng is as I layed afore y ^e fayth of chrystꝭ chyrch by y ^e comē cōsent wherof these maters be decyded & well knowē y ^t y ^e worshyp of sayntys & imagys been allowed apꝓbate & accustumed for good chrysten & merytoryous vertues. and y ^e cōtrary opynyon not only reproued by many holy doctours / but also cōdēpned for heresyes by sundry generall coūsayls. And thys in y ^e begynyng I told you q I was & shuld be y ^e force & strēgh of my tale / Albe yt of trouthe I sayed vnto you besyde / y ^t me thoght y ^t y ^e myracles wrought by god were suffycyēt profe & auctoryte therefore all though there were none other. whych thyng syth ye seme to inpugne / I shall as I cā make you āswer therunto. ¶Nay syr sayꝭ he I pray you take me not soo as though y ^t I dyd impugne it but as I shewd ye beefore / I rehersyd you what I haue hard som other saye. In good tyme q I. Thā becaus they be not here I prey you defēd & bere out theyr ꝑte w ^t all y ^t ye haue hard thē saye / And sett therto also all y ^t euer your own mynd geueth you y ^t they may more heraftyr saye lest you retorn not fully furnishid for your purpose.

The .vi chapiter

¶Because y ^e messenger thynkyth y ^t he may well mystrust and deny the myracles / bycause reason and na­ture telle hym that they can not be dō / therfore fyrst y ^• author sheweth what vnresonablenes wold ensue / if folke wold stand so styffe agaynst all credence to be geuen to any such thyng as reason and nature shuld seme to gayne saye.

ANd fyrst where ye say. Nay quod he where they saye. well quod I soo be it where they saye / For here euer my tonge tryppythe. But now therfore fyrste where they saye y ^t they neuer sawe any of these myracles theym self / and therfore the myracles [Page xii] be no profe to them whych whyle they neuer sawe them are not boundē to be leue them / they seme eyther very necli­gent yf they nothyng [...]uere whā they mystrust & dout of the trouth in such a wayghty matter / or yf they haue dyly­gētly made enserche than must it nedꝭ be y ^t they haue hard of so many tolde & rehersyd by the mou [...]hes & the writing of so good and credyble personis / that the ye seeme vnreasonably suspycyous yf they thynke all to gether lyes that so many tre [...] mē or mē like to be trew so faythfully do report. If these mē were [...]uggys fewe maters wold take ēde at theyr hād / or at y ^e le [...]t y ^• playntife shuld haue well spede if they wold bileue no thyng but that were proued / nor rekē nothīg proued but y ^t they se them selfe. ¶Thus may euery man rekē him selfe vnsure of hys owne father if he beleue no mā / or bycause all y ^e profe therof stā dyth but vpō one woman / And y ^t vpō her whych though she can tell best / yet yf yt be wrong hath gr [...]test cause to ly. Let y ^e knowlege of y ^• father alone ther fore amōg our wy [...]y [...] mysteries / And lett vs se yf we beleue nothynge but y ^• we se our self. who cā rekē him self sure of hys own mother / for pos [...]ble it were y ^• he were chaunged in y ^e cradell / and a [...]yche mānis [...] bring hō [...] h [...]r owne chylde for her masters / & kepe her mas­ters for her own to make her o [...] a gē tylmā good [...]h [...]pe. And thys were no grete mastery / whyle y ^e mother hath of her owne child no [...]re marke. ¶Sir q your frend yf I shuld [...] & by thes exāples proue thē y ^t they wer of reasō boūdē to beleue [...] [...]les as were reportyd bycause many [...]dyble mē tell thē / for as mo [...] as [...]ys we shuld bileue nothīg but that [...] [...]e our self / and than were all the [...]rld full of cō [...]u [...]yon / nor no iudgmēt could be geu [...]/but vppō thyngys [...] iudgꝭ [...]ight / I shuld I fere me very [...]ebly sa­ty [...]y them. For they wolde [...] say y ^t t [...]ē samples be nothynge like y ^• mater. But as it is reasō y ^t I shuld beleue honeste mē in all such thyngꝭ as may be trew / & whereī I se no cause why they shuld lye / so were agayn [...] all reasō to bileue mē be they neuer so many / seme they neuer so credible / where as reasō & nature (of whych tw [...]yne euery one ys alone more credyble then they all) sheweth me plainly y ^t theyre tal [...] is vntrew / as yt muste nedy [...] yf the matter be unpossyble as it is in all [...]hes myr [...] cles. And in such case though I can [...] seue no ꝓfit y ^t they cā receyue therby / yet wh [...] I wel se y ^t it coud not be trew I must well se that it [...] not tre [...]. And therby must I nedi [...] [...]owe y ^t y [...] they can take no profyt by lying / they ly not for eny coueryer / but euē ōly for theyr specyall pleasure. ¶Forsoth q I thys is right meryly āswered. & to say the trothe / as far as we be yet gone in the matter of these myracles not my [...] amysse / nor very far fro y ^e poynt. But syth thys thyng ys mych materyal [...] as wheruppō many grete thy [...]ys do depend / we shall no [...] so shortely sha [...]e y [...] of / but we shall cum one [...]ep or [...] nere to y ^• matter. And fyr [...] I wy [...] say to thē that it were hard for them & n [...] very sure to beleue y ^t euery [...]ā lyeth / why [...]h tellyth thē a tale for trew y ^e re [...] & nature semyth to she [...] thē to be fals & īpossible. For ī this w [...]e shall they in many thīgys erre & clerely deceyue th [...] ̄ self. And [...]tyme [...] they make th [...] ̄ selfe sure [...] y ^• wrōg syde yf they wol [...] [...] [Page] [...] [Page xiii] done beleue no man that tell yt them / able yt y ^t yt be no perell to theyr soule / yet so much haue they knowlege y ^e les / & vnresonably stande in theyr [...]our [...]horow the mystrustyng of the trewth. ¶It ys not yet fyfty yeres a goo syns y ^• furst man as far as mē haue hard / cāe to lōdon that euer parted y ^• gylt from the syluer consumyng shorte [...]y the syl­uer into dust with a very fayer water / In so farr forth that whan the fyners and goldsmythes of london hard fy [...]st therof they nothynge wondred therof but laughed thereat as at an impossy­ble ly / ī which perswasions if they had cōtynued styll [...]hey had yet at this day la [...]ed all that connyng. ¶yet wyll I not say nay but that a man may be to lyght in beleue / and be by such ensam­ples brought into beleue to farr. As [...] good fe [...]ow and frend of myne late ī talkyng of this matter of marueylys & miracles entending merely to make me beleue for a trouth a thyng y ^t could neuer be / fyrst brought in what a force the fyre hath that will make two peces of yron able to be ioyned and cleue to gyther / and wyth the helpe of y ^e h [...]me [...] [...]e made both one which no h [...]meryng could do wythout the fyre / whych thīg because I dayly see I assented. Than sayed he ferther / y ^t yet was more maruayle that the fyer shall make [...]en to [...]ōne as syluer or lead doth / & make it take a prynt. whych thyng I told hym I had neuer sene / but byc [...]use he sayed he had sene it I thought it to be trew. Sone after thys / he wold haue me to beleue y ^t he had sene a pece of syluer of twoo or thre inchys aboute & in lēgth leesse than afote drawē by mānes hād thorowe strayte holes made in a irone tyll it was brought in thyknesse not halfe a inche aboute / & ī lēgth drawē oute I cannot tell how many yardys. And whē I hard hī say y ^t he sawe thys hī selfe thā I wyst well he was merely dysposed. Mary syr q your frēde it was hye time to gyue him ouer whā he cā to y ^•. well said I what yf I shuld tell you now y ^t I had seen y ^e same / by my faythe q he merely I wold beleue it at leysour whan I had seen the same / and in y ^e meane whyle I could not let you to say your pleasure ī your own house but I wold thynk that ye were dyspo­sed merely to make me a fole. wel seyd I / what yf there wold besydys me / ten or .xx. good honest men tell you y ^e same tale / and that they had all seen the thīg done them self. In fayth quod he syth I am sēt hyther to beleue you / I wold in that poynt beleue your self alone / as well as them all. well quod I ye mean ye wold beleue vs all a lyke. But what wold you than say yf one or twayne of them wold say more. Mary q he than wold I beleue them lesse. what yf they wold q I shew you y ^t they haue seene that the pece of syluer was ouer gylt. & the same pece beyng styll drawen tho­row the holes y ^e gylt not rubbyd of but styll goo forth ī lenght wyth the syluer so that all y ^e lenght of many yerdꝭ was gylted of the gyltynge of the fyrst pece not a fote longe? Surely syr quod he those twayne y ^t wold tell me so moche more I wold saye were not so cūnyng in the mayntenāce of a lye as was the pylgrymys companyon whyth whan hys felowe had told at yorke y ^t he had seene of late at londō / a byrde that keuered all poules chyrch yarde w ^t hys wyngys: commynge to the same place on the morowe sayd that he sawe not that byrde: but he harde mych speeche therof / but he saw in Powles chyrche yard an egge so greate that .x. menne [Page] could scant moue yt wyth leuers / thys felowe could help it forth wyth a pro­per syde way / But he were no good vnder propper of a lye that wold mynyshe hys credence wyth afyrmyng all the fy [...]st and settyng a lowder lye therto. well sayd I thā I haue espied if .x. shuld tell you so ye wold not beleue thē. No quod he not if .xx. shuld. what yf an hū dred wold quod I that semed good and credable. if they were q he ten thousand they were not of credēce wyth me whan they shuld tell me that they sawe y ^e thīg that my self knoweth by nature & reasō vnpossyble For whan I know it could not be donne / I knowe well that they lye all / be they neuer so many that say they sawe it done. well quod I syth I se well ye wold not in thys poynt beleue a hole towne / ye haue put me to sy­lence / that I dare not now be bol [...]e to tell you that I haue seen yt my s [...]lfe. But surely if wytnes wold haue ser­uede me I wene I myght haue broght you a grete meny good men that wold saye and swere to that they haue sene it thē self. But nowe shall I ꝓuide me to morowe peraduenture a cople of wytnes of whom I wote well ye wyll myst [...]uste neyther nother. who be they quod he for yt were hard to fynde whō I could better trust thē your self / whō what soo euer I haue merely sayed I cold not in good fayth but beleue you in that ye shuld tell me ernestly vppon your owne knowlege. But ye vse my master sayeth to loke so sadly / whā ye meane merely / that many tymes men dowte whether ye speke in sport whā ye mene good erneste. In good fayth quod I / I meane good ernest now / & yet as well as ye dare trust me I shall as I sayed yf ye wyll go wyth me pro­uyde a couple of wytnesse of whom ye wyll beleue any one better thā twayne of me / for they be your nerre frendys / and ye haue bene better acquaynted w ^t them / and such as I dare say for them be not often wont to lye. who be they q he I pray you. Mary quod I your owne twoo eyn / for I shall if you wyll brynge you where ye shall se it / no fer­ther hens than euyn here in london. And as for iron & laten to be so drawē in lēgth ye shall se it dōe in .xx shoppꝭ almost in one strete. Mary syr quod he these wytnes in dede wyll not lye / As the pore man sayed by the preste if I may be so hōly to tell you a mery tale by the waye. A mery tale quod I cummyth neuer a mys to me. The pore mā quod he had found the preste ouer fa­mylyer wyth hys wyffe / and because he spake hy [...] a brode and coulde not proue it the prest sued hym before the bysshoppys offycyall for dy [...]famacyō / where the pore man vppō payne of cursyng was cōmaunded that in hys pa­ryshe chyrch he shuld vpon the sonday at hygh masse tyme / stand vp and saye mou [...]h thou lyest. whereuppon for ful­fyllyng of hys penaunce vpp was the pore soule sett in a pew that y ^e people myght wonder on hym and here what he sayed / And ther all a lowd whan he had rehersyd what he had reportyd by y ^e prest / than he sett hys handys on his mouth / & sayd mouth mouth thou liest. And by & by theruppon he sett hys hād vpon both hys eyen & sayed / but eyen eyen quod he by the masse ye lye not a whytte And so syr in dede / & ye bryng me those wyttnes they wyll not lye a whyt ¶How be it syr and though thys be trewe / as in good fayth I beleue & am sure that it ys / yet am I neuer the more bounden by reason to beleue thē y ^• wolde tell me a miracle. For though [Page xiiii] thys thyng be incredyble to hym that hereth it / and straunge and meruelus to hym that seeth yt / yet is it a thynge that may be done / But he that telleth me a myracle / telleth me a thynge that can not be don. I shewed you quod I thys ensāple to put you in mynd that in beyng ouer hard of byleue of thyn­ges tha [...] by reason and nature seme & apere īpossyble / where they be repottyd by credyble witnes hauing no cause to lye / ther is as moch peryll of errour as where men be to light of credēce / And thus much haue I proued you ōwarde that if ye beleue no man in such thīgꝭ as may not be / than must it folow that ye ought to beleue no man in many thyngys that may be / for all is oone to you / whyther they may be or may not be / yf it seme to you that they may not be. And of truthe ye cānot tell whether they may be or may not be / except they be two such thyngys as imply cōtradiccion / as oone selfe thyng in oone selfe parte to be both whyte & blakke. For ellys many thyngys shall seme to you such as all reson wyll resyste / and nature wyll in no wyse admytte / And yet they shall be done well inoughe / And be in some other place in comen vse & custome. But nowe bycause / all your shyfte standeth ī thys that of a myracle tolde you ye may wyth reason byleue that all men lye bycause reasō and na­ture beyng more to be beleuyd than all they / telleth you that they say wronge in that the thyng reportyd for a myra­cle can not be donne / I haue shewed you that nature / and reasō doth shew you y ^t many thyngys may not be don whych yet in dede be done so ferforth y ^• when ye se theym done ye may right well accompte thē as miracles for any thyng that reason or nature can shew you by what naturall order and cause yt could be done / but that ye shall styll se reason stand quyte agaynst yt as in the drawynge of the syluer or iron.

¶The .vii. chapiter.

¶The Author sheweth that nether nature nor reson do deny the myracles to be trew / nor do not gayn say but y ^t they may be well & easly done.

SIr sayth he yet hytte we not the poynt / for albe it y ^t many thīgꝭ be well done / & by nature / whych ney­ther my wytte nor happely no mannys ellys can attayn so nere to natures coū sell that we can therī ꝑceyue her crafte / But like as sū rude people / muse vppō a clokke / y ^t hath y ^e spryng whych is the cause of hys mouyng secretly cōueyed and closed in the barrell / so marueyle we & wonder on her worke / yet allway all those thyngys dyffer and be vnlyke to myracles. In that your self wyll agre with me y ^t whan I beleue y ^t reason and nature techeth me surely that miracles be thyngys that can not be done / I am not ī this deceyuyd thogh I may be ī such other thīgꝭ deceyued as seme impossyble and yet may be done. And therfor as cōcernyng myracles ī which your self wyll agre that I am not by any mystakyng of reasō and nature de­ceyued / ye may not your self me thyn­keth say nay / but y ^t I may well with reason beleue theym twayne agaynst all theym that wyll tell me they haue sene such thyngys don as your self doth agre / that they twayne that ys to wytte nature and reason dothe verely and trewly shew me can not be don. what maner of thingys be those q I. Mary myracles quod he such as your self [...] wyll agre to be don agaynst nature. Geue vs therof quod I sum ēsample. As yf mē quod he wold now cum tell [Page] me y ^t at oure lady of rouncyuale / there were a dede chylde restored agayne to lyffe / lett that quod I be oone / and lett a nother be y ^t a bysshop in the byldyng of hys chyrch fyndyng one beame cutt a greate dele to shorte for hys worke / drewe it forth betwene a nother man & hym foure fote (& ye wyll) lenger than it was and so made it serue / Be yt by my trouth q he. wyll we quod I take for the thyrde / y ^t a mā was by myracle in a pater noster whyle / cōueyd a myle of from oone place to a nother. be hit so quod he. Nowe they that shuld tell me quod he that they had seene these thre myracles were I bound to beleue thē? whether ye were boūdē quod I or no / we shall see ferther after / But now whye shuld ye not of reasō trust them yf the men be credyble / and ernestly reporte yt / and peraduenture on there othes depose it / hauīg no cause to fayne it nor lykely to lye and be forswornen for nought. I wyll quod he not beleue them bycause that nature and reasone are twoo recordys more to be byleued thā all they that bere wytnesse agaynst them. why quod I what doth reason & nature tell you. They twayne tell me quod he y ^t those .iii. thyngys cā not be done / whych those men sey they sawe done. wote you quod I that reasō and nature tell you so. ye mary quod he y ^t I wote well they do / & I thynke youre self wyll agre that they tell me so. Nay by saynt Mary syt quod I that wyll I not [...] for I thynke that neyther reson nor nature telleth you so / but rather both twoo tell you clene the contrary / that ys to wyte that they both bere witnesse that those thre thyngys and such other lyke be thingys that may be well [...]nd easly done / ye quod he: mary thys ys a nother way. Thē haue we walked wrong a whyle yf ye proue that. Me thynketh quod I no thyng more easy to proue than that / For I pray you tell me quod I do reasō and nature shewe you that there ys a god or not? Fayth sheweth me y ^t surely quod he / but whyther nature and resō shew [...] me or no that I doute / syth grete reasoned men and phylosophers haue dowted therof And some of them playnly perswaded and in beleue that there was none at all / and the hole people of the world in effecte fallen from knowlege or be­leue of god in to Idolatry & worshype of mammottys. Nay quod I there ys lytle dowte I trowe [...]but that nature & reason geueth vs good knowlege that there is a god. for albe it the gentylys worshypped among them a thousand false goddis / yet all that proueth y ^t ther was and ys in all mennes heddys a secrete consent of nature that god there is or ellys they wold haue worshypped nōe at all. Now as for y ^e philosophers though a very fewe dowted / and one or twayne thought ther was none / yet as oone swalow maketh not somer so y ^e foly of so fewe maketh no chaunge of the matter agaynst all the hole noumber of the olde philosophers. whych as saynt Poule confessyth found owt by nature and reasō that ther was a god eyther maker or gouernour or both of all thys hole ēgyne of the world. The maruelouse bewtye & constant course whereof / sheweth well that it neyther was made nor gouerned by chaunce. But whan they had by these vysyble thyngys knowlege of hys inuysyble magestye / thā dyd they / as we do / fell from the worshyp of hym to y ^e worship of Idoles as now do chrysten mē / not as herytyques lay to y ^e charge of good people in doyng reuerence to sayntys [Page xv] [...] [Page] /he wrought it not to the vttermo [...]s of hys power / but with sych degrees of goodnes as his hye plesure lyked to ly­myt. For els were hys work of as infy­nyte ꝑfeccy [...]n as hym self. And of such infynyte eg [...]ll ꝑ [...]eccyō was ther by god brought forth nothyng but only y ^e two ꝑsons of the trynyte / y ^t is to wyt y ^e sōne & the holy goste. of which two the sonne was furste by the father begotten / & af­ter the holye goste by the father and the sonne / after I say ī order of beginning but not in tyme producyd and brought forth. And in thys hye generacyon and produccyon dyd the doers work bothe wyllyngly & naturally / & after the vtte­rest parfeccyon of them self / which they dyd only therin [...] in none other thyng. And therefore god myght breke vp the hole worlde yf he wolde & make a beter by & by. and not onely chaūge in the n [...] turall cours of thys world sum thyngꝭ to the beter. How be it god in workyng of myracles doth nothyng agaynst na­ture / but some specyall benefyte aboue nature. And he doth not agaynste you that doth a nother a good torne whych ye be not able to do. And therfore syth god may do what he wyll beīg almyghty / and in doynge of myracles he dothe for the beter / neyther reson nor nature shewyth you that they whych saye they saw such myracles / do tell you a thyng y ^t can not be done / syth ye haue no rea­son to proue that god either can not do yt or wyll not do yt. For syth he cā do it and yt may be that he wyll do yt / why shuld we mystruste good & h [...]nest men that say they saw hym do yt.

The .ix. chapyter.

¶The author shewyth [...] albe yt men m [...]y mystruste some of the p [...] ­tyculer myracle [...]/yet c [...] there no resonable [...] neyther deny nor [...]/but that [...]any myracles hath there bene done and wrought.

FOrsothe quod he & yet [...] for myracles I were notte for all thys boūdē to beleue any. for I spake n [...]uer yet w ^t any man y ^t cou [...]e tell me that euer he saw any ¶It may q I fortune you to lyue so lōg that yt shall fynde no mā that was by at your crystenyng / nor when ye were bishop­ped neyther. ¶Mary q he for ought [...] I wot I haue lyued so longe all redy. ¶why dout we not than q I whyther ye were euer crystenyd or not? ¶ For euery man quod he presumyth & bele­ueth that I ā crystenyd / as a thyng so comenly done / that we reken our selfe sure y ^t no man leuyth yt [...]ndone. ¶I [...] the comen presumpsyon quod I suffy­cyently serue you to set your mynd in surete / than albeit myracles be nothīg comenly & customably done / nor that no presumpcyon can suffy [...]ently serue for y ^e profe of thys myracle or that / yet hathe there euer from the begynnyng of the world in euery nacyon crysten [...] he then / and almost euery town at so [...] dry times so many myracles and m [...] uayls bene wrought besyde the come [...] cour [...] of nature / that I thynk thorow y ^e world yt is as well beleuyd vnyuer­sally that miracles and maruayl [...] the [...] be / as any thyng ys beleuyd that men loke vppon. So that if comen presūpsiō serue you / ye may as I sayd as w [...]l beleue that myracles be done / [...] that youre selfe was euer cry [...]enyd. For I dare well say that the [...]e [...]r a thousand y ^t bele [...]e ther hath bene myracles dōe / against one that beleuyth that ye wer euer cry [...]enyd / or euer wyst whether ye were borne or n [...]t. ¶Nor y ^e doctors of Cry [...]ys chyrch dyd n [...]u [...]r mystrus [...] y ^e wonders & m [...]r [...]yl [...] t [...]t the [...] ­nymes [Page xvi] telle and wryte too ha [...]e beene done by theyr false goddis / but assyg­neth them to haue ben done by the de­uyll thorow goddꝭ sufferaūce for thyl­lusyon of them that with idolatry had deserued to be deluded. And whyther they be myracles by whyche name we cōmenly call the wonders wrought by god or merueyles done by the deuel it forseth not for thys purpose of ours. For yf ye graunt that the deu [...]ll may do any by goddis sufferāce / ye can not say nay but god may much more [...]asi­ly do hym self. ¶And sith ye be a chris­ten mā and receyue scripture I might ī this matter quod I haue choked you long a go / wyth the manyfold myra­cles and meruailes y ^t be shewed there.

¶The .x. chapiter.

¶Thauthor prouyth y ^t many thīgꝭ dayly don by nature or craft wher­of we nothynge merueyle at all / be more meruelous and more wōder­full in dede than be the myracles y ^t we mooste marueyle of and repute most incredyble.

NAy quod he suerly though it hath doone me good to here what ye wold say / yet I ne­ther dout nor I suppose no good man ellys / but that god hath besyde the co­men course of nature wrought many myracles. But yet of those that men tell of / as done in our tyme / by whych ye wold it shuld seme that it were well prouyd that the prayng to sayntys / goyng on pylgrymagys / & worshyppyng of ymagys were well and suffycyently prouyd / all though there were none o­ther profe theruppō / of these myracles dyd I mene / in the report of whych me thynkyth I neede not beleue a comen fame of [...]hys myracle and that begon by such sily womā sekīg saynt Sythe whē [...]he syghyth for myscastyng other [...]ays. Of these myracles I speke / & all such as men say now adays be done at dyuers pylgrymagꝭ by dyuers sayntꝭ or dyuers ymagys / in whych the thyn­kyth y ^t such as be told to be don which nature and reson sayth be impossyble / I may well mystrust y ^e tellers. Or ells how many of thē shall make me a suf­fycyent profe of an impossyble mater? One or two or thre eyther semyth me to few to trust theyr credence in a thīg so incredible. And if I shall not beleue theym tyll I fynde many recordys / I wene I were fayne to wander y ^e world about or I ꝓuyd many myracles suf­fyciently / of such I say as ye ꝓue your pylgrymages by. ¶youre few wordys q I haue wrappyd in them many thingys that seme somwhat as they be couchyd to geder. which when we se them vnfoldyd and consyder ech part a son­der / than may we better examyn th [...]m & better se wherof they serue. ¶Furste ye speke of sekīg to sayntys for sleyght causys. as for y ^e losse or mysse of kyttis ka [...]s. Than ye wolde wyt how many ye must here say they saw a myracle or ye shuld of reason beleue yt. Thyrdly ye thynk ye were lyke to go long or ye shuld fynde any prouyd trew. Fynally whan ye say that ye meane onely those myracles that men tell of / as doone at pylgr [...]magys / ye seme to put styll a differēs betwene those myracles wroght in pylgrymag [...] & such as are wrought by god otherwyse / The cause wherof I must ferther aske you after. For I perceyue not well what ye meane by y ^t / ¶But fyrst where as ye speke styll as though ye myght mistrust thē were they neuer so many: because they tell you a thyng that reasō & nature sayeth is impossyble / me thynketh y ^t ye shuld [Page] now chaunge that worde. For I haue all redy / ꝓuyd that reasō & nature say not that a myracle ys īpossible / but on­ly that it is impossyble to nature. And they cōfesse both that myracles be pos­syble to god and they that report them do report them for such. And therfore they do report you none īpossible tale. For the clerer cōsyderacion wherof / let vs resort to y ^e miracles which we were agreed shuld stand for examples / And fyrst yf men shuld tell you y ^t they sawe before an ymage / of the crucifix a dede man raysid to lyfe / ye wold much mer­ua [...]le therof / and so myght ye well. yet could I tell you sum what that I haue seen my selfe that me thynketh as gret a meruayle / but I haue no lyst to tell you because that ye be so circumspect and ware in beleue of any myracles / y ^t ye wold not beleue yt for me but mys­trust me for it. Nay sir quod he ī good fayth / yf a thīg semed me neuer so farr vnlykly / yet yf ye wolde ernystly say y ^t your selfe haue seen yt / I neyther wold nor could mystrust yt, well quod I thā ye make me the bolder to tel you. And yet wyll I tell you nothing / but that I wold yf nede were find you good wit­nes to proue it. It shall not nede syr q he / but I besech you let me here it. For soth quod I because we speke of a mā raysyd from deth to lyfe. There was ī the parish of saynt steuenes ī walbrok in lōdō where I dwellid before I came to chelsyth / a mā and a woman which at yet quyk and quethynge and yonge were they both. The eldyst I am sure passyd not .xxiiii. It happed them as doth among yong folke / y ^e tone to cast a mynd to the tother. And after many lettis / for y ^• maydēs mother was mich agaynst yt / at last they came to gether and were maryed in saynt Stephens chirch which is not gretly famouse for any myracles / but yet yerely on saynt steuyn day it is sōwhat sought vnto / & vysyted with folkis deuociō. But now short tale to make / thys yong woman as the maner is in brydis ye wote well was at nyght brought to bed with ho­nest womē. And than after that went the bryde grome to bed. And euery body wēt theyr wayes & left them twayn there alone. And that same nyght / yet abide let me not lye. now ī faith to say the trouth I am not very sure of the time / but suerly as it aperid afterward yt was of lyklyhod y ^• same nyght or sū other tyme sone after except yt happe­ned a lytle afore. No force for the tyme quod he. Troth quod I / and as for the matter all the paryshe wyll testefye for trewth the woman was knowen for so honest. But for the conclusion the seed of them twayn / turned in the womans body / fyrst into bloode / and after into shape of man chylde. And than waxed quyk and she gret therwyth. And was within y ^• yere delyuered of a fayr boy / and forsoth yt was not than (for I saw yt myselfe) passing the lenght of a fote. And I am sure he is growen nowe an ynch lenger than I. How long ys yt agoo quod he. By my fayth q I / about xxi. yeres. Tush quod he this is a worthy myracle. In good faith quod I neuer wyst I that any mā could tell that he had any other begynnyng. And me thynkyth that thys ys as gret a myra­cle as the reysyng of a dede man. ¶If yt seme so q he to you / than haue you a maruelouse semynge / for I wene yt semyth so to no man els. ¶No quod I cā ye tell what is y ^e cause? None other surely but that the acquayntaūce and dayly beholdyng takyth a way the wō deryng / as we nothyng wonder at the [Page xvii] ebbyng and flowyng of the see / or the thamys bycause we dayly se it. But he that had neuer seene it nor hard therof wolde at the fyrste syght wonder sore the [...]at to se that great water cum wa­lowyng vp agaynst the wynde keping a cōmen course to and fro / no cause ꝑ­seyued y ^t dryueth hym. If a mā borne blynde had sodēly hys syght what woū der wold he make to see the sonne the mone / and the starres / where as one y ^t hathe sene them syxtene yere to gether marueylyth not so moche of thē all / as he wolde wonder at the fyrst syght of a pecokkys tayle. And veryly cause can I se none / why we shulde of reasō mo [...]e maruayle of y ^e reuyuyng of a dede mā than of the bredyng / bryngyng forthe and growyng of a chyl [...]e vnto y ^e state of a man. No more meruelouse ys a koko thā a cokk / though y ^e tone be sene but in somer and the [...]other all y ^e yere. And I am sure yf ye sawe dede mē as cōmenly called a gayne by myracle / as ye se men brought forth by nature / ye wolde rekē yt lesse maruayle to bryng the soule agayne into the body / kepīg yet styll hys shappe and hys organys not moch pereshyd / thā of a lytle seede to make all that gere new / and make a newe soule therto. Now yf ye neuer had sene any gonne in youre days nor herd of any before / yf .ii. men shuld tell you the tone that he had wyst a mā in a pater noster while conueyd & caryed a mile of from one place to a nother by myracle / & y ^e tother shulde tell you y ^t he had sene a stone more than a mannys weyght caryed more than a myle in as lyttyll space by craft / whych of these wolde you by your faythe take for the more incredyble? ¶Surely q he both twayne were very strange. But yet I could not chese but thynke yt were ra­ther trewe y ^• god dyd y ^e tone / than that any crafte of mā coulde do the tother. well quod I let vs than to oure thryde ensample. If it were shewed you that saynt Etkenwalde or hys s [...]ster drewe out a pece of tīber y ^t was cut to shorte for the rofe ī makyng barkyng abbey / shulde thys be so incredyble to you to beleue that they drewe in lenght a pece of wood by y ^e power and helpe of goddys hād / whā we se dayly a grete pece of syluer brasse / laten or iren drawen a lenght īto smale wyer / as wōderfully by mannys hand

¶The .xi. chapiter

¶The author shewyth that a myracle is not to be mystrustyd thogh yt be done in a small mater and semith vppon a sleyght occasyon.

NOw though ye wold parad­uenture as ye seme to do / reken thys cause very sleyght for god to shew sych an hygh myracle / syth there myght haue bene w ^tout my­racle a lenger pece of tymber gotten / & so ye wold happely mystrust yt for the slender occasion / resemblyng yt to the myscastynge of some good huswyuys kays / god hath I wene so much wyt of hym selfe / y ^t he nedyth not our aduyce to ēforme hym what thyng were suffycyent occasyon to worke hys wonders for. But & if ye rede in y ^e bokys of Cas­syan / saynte Gregory / saynt Austyne / saynt Hyerom / & many other holy vertuous men / ye shall (excepte ye beleue thē not) lerne & know that god hath for hys saruantys don many a gret myracle in very small maters. And so mych y ^e more ar we boundē to hys goodnes in y ^t he vouchesauyth so famylyerly in smal thīgꝭ to shew vs so gret a tokē of his mighty godhed. & no resō wer it to w ^tdraw his thāk & honor because of his [Page] famylyer goodnes. And yf ye parauē ­ture wold not beleue theyr wrytyngꝭ / go to Crystꝭ gospell & loke on hys fyrst myracle whether he myght not haue ꝓuydyd for wine without miracle. But such was his pleasure in a small mater to do a greate myracle for sum shew of hys godhed amōg them whō he vouch saufyd / where on the tother syde afore Herode that wold fayn haue sene sum myracle where yt stode vppon his lyfe & myght haue delyueryd hym from the iewes / yet wolde he not vouchsafe ey­ther to shew the proud curyouse kyng one myracle / or speke one word. So y ^t tymys placys & occasyons / reason is y ^t we suffer to rest in hys arbyterment. & not loke to prescrybe & appoynt at our pleasure / and ellys blaspheme theym & say we wyll not beleue them.

¶The .xii. chapiter.

¶The author sumwhat notyth the froward myndys of many folk that wold be very hard to beleue a man in a myracle vppon his othe / & very light in a shrewd tale to beleue a woman on her word.

NOw where ye requyre how many witnes shuld be requisite and suffice to make you thynk your self in reson to haue good cause to beleue so strange a thyng / me thynkyth y ^t ryght few were suffycyent of them that wold say they saw a grete good thyng done by the power & goodnes of god. except it be harde for vs to beleue eyther that god ys so myghty y ^t he may do it or so good y ^t he wold do it ¶But because ye wold wit of me how many recordys were requysyte / y ^e thīg standyth not so much in nomber as in weyght. Some twayn be more credy­ble than sum .x. And albe yt y ^• I se not greatly why I shuld mystrust any one that semith honest & tellith a good tale of god in whych there apperyth no specyall cause of lyeng / yet yf any wytnes wyll serue you / thā wold I wyt of you how many your self wold agre. For I now put case y ^t there cam .x. dyuers honest men of good substaunce out of .x. dyuers partyes of the realme / [...]che off them wyth an offeryng at one pylgry­mage / as for ensample at our Lady of Ipswych / & ech one of them affyrming vppon theyr othe a myracle don vppō them self in sum grete so dayn help wel apperyng to passe the power of crafte or nature / wold ye not beleue y ^t amōg them all at the lestwyse twayn of those .x. sayd trew? ¶No by oure lady q he not & they were .x. and .xx. ¶why so q I. ¶Mary quod he for wer they neuer so many hauyng none other wytnesse but eche man tellyng hys tale for hym selfe / they be but syngle all & lesse than syngle. for euery myracle hath but one record / and yet he not credable in hys owne cause. & so neuer a myracle well ꝓuyd. ¶well sayd I / I lyke well your wysdome y ^t ye be so cyrcumspect that ye wyll nothyng beleue without good suffycyent & full profe. I put you than quod I a nother case that .x. yong wo­mē not very specially known for good but takē out at auēture / dwellyng all in one towne / wold report & tell that a frere of good fame heryng theyr con­fessyons at a pardon / wold haue geuē them in penaunce to let hym lye wyth them / on youre fayth wolde ye not be­leue y ^t among so many sum of thē said trew? yes y ^t I wold quod he by y ^e mary mas beleue they said trew all .x. & durst well swere for them & they were but .ii. whi so q I they be as sigle witnes as y ^e other of whō I told you before. for nōe of thē cā tell what was sayd to ā other [Page xviii] & yet they be vnsworn also / & therwyth be they but womē whych be more light & lesse to be regardyd / dwellyng all in one towne also / & therby myght they y ^e more easely conspyre a false tale. They be q he wytnes good ynogh for such a mater / the thyng ys so lykely of yt selfe that a freer wylbe womanysh loke the holy horeson neuer so sayntly. ¶ye deny not q I but god may as easly do a good turn by myracle as any mā may do an yuell by nature. That is trew q he & he lyst. well quod I se now what a good way ye be in / y ^t ar of your owne good godly mīde more redy to beleue ii. sīple womē y ^t a man wyll do noght / than .x. or .xx. men y ^t god wyll do good

The .xiii. chapiter.

¶Thauthor sheweth y ^t vntowarde mīd of many mē / which in miracles so hyely touchyng y ^e honor of god & wele of theyr own soulys / wyll ney­ther beleue other folk y ^t tell thē / nor thē self vouchsafe to go preue thē. BUt syth y ^t thys kynde of profe wyll not suffyse you / I dare say if ye wold seke & enquere / ye shuld fīde many done in your days in y ^e presence of mych peple. wher shuld I se y ^• q he? ye myght q I vppō good friday euery yere this .ii.C. yere till w ^tin this .v. yere y ^t the turkys haue take the town / haue sene one of y ^e thornys y ^t was in Crystꝭ crown / bud & bryng forth flowrys in y ^e seruyse tyme / if ye wold haue gon to y ^e Rodys: So far q he [...]ay yet had I leuer haue goddys blessyng to beleeue y ^t I se not / than go so far therfore. I am well apayd q I therof. for yf ye had le­uer beleue than take the payn of a lōg pylgrymage / ye will neuer be so styf in any opynyon y ^t ye wyll put your self in ieoꝑdy for ꝑtynacy & stoborne stādyng by your parte. No mary q he I warāt you I will neuer be so mad to hold till it wax to hote. For I haue such a fond fansy of myne owne y ^t I had leuer shy­uer & shake for cold in y ^• myddys of so­mer / than be burnyd ī y ^• myddꝭ of winter. Merely sayd q I. but yet in ernest wher such a solemne yerely myracle is wrought so wōdersly in the face of the world before so gret a multytude / it is a gret vntowardnes in a thīg so hyly touchyng y ^e honor of god & helth of our own soule / both to mistrust all thē y ^t sey they haue sene it / & eyther of slouth or incrudelyte not vouchsafe hym self to proue it. If I shuld haue gon quod he & foūd it a ly / thā had I walkyd a wyse iorney. & ō y ^e tother side if I shuld haue sene ther such a thing my self / yet coud I scantly rekē my selfe sure. No q I y ^t were a strange case. Not very strange q he. For where ye speke of myracles done before a multyrude / a man may be dysseyuyd therin ryghte well.

The .xiiii. chapiter.

¶The messēger makyth obieccyō y ^• myracles shewed byfore a multitude may be fayned / & by y ^e author shewd how y ^• goodnes of god brīgyth shortly y ^• truth of such falshed to lyght / w ^t ēsāples therof one or two rehersed. & farther shewed that many myracles therebe whych no good crysten man may deny to be trew.

SOme pteste to bryng vp a pyl­grymage in hys ꝑyshe may deuyse sū false felowe faynyng hym self to com seke a saynt in his chyrch / And there sodenly saye that he hath gotten hys syghte. Then shall ye haue the bellys rongē for a myracle / And y ^e fōd folke of the countre soone made foles. Than women cōming thether w ^t their cādells. & the persō byyng of sum la [...]e begger .iii. or .iiii. payre of theyre olde [Page] [...]rutches w ^t .xii. pennes spent ī mē & womē of wex thrust thorow dyuers placꝭ some w ^t arrowes / & sū w ^t rusty knyuys wyll make hys offeryngys for one .vii. yere worth twyse hys tythes. Thys ys q I very truth that such thyngys may be & sūtime [...]o be ī dede [...] As I remēber me that I haue hard my father tell of a begger y ^t in kynge Edwardꝭ dayes y ^• fourth cam wyth hys wyffe to saynt Albonys / And there was walkyng aboute the towne beggyng a fyue or six dayes before y ^e kyngꝭ cōmyng th [...]ther sayng y ^t he was borne blynde / & neuer sawe in hys lyfe / And was warned in hys dreame y ^• he shuld cō oute of Ber­wyke where he sayed he had euer dwelled to seke saynte albō / And y ^• he hade bene at hys shryne and had not been holpen / And therfore he wold go seke hī at some other place / for he had hard some say synne he cā / y ^• saynt albonys body shuld be at Colon / And in dede such a cōtēcyō hath ther beene. But of trouth as I am surly īformed he lyeth here at saynt albonys / sauyng some relyques of hym whych they there shew shryned. But to tell you forth whā the kyng was cūmē & y ^• towne full / sodaynly thys blynde man at saynt Albonys shryne had hys syght agayne / And a myracl [...] solemply rongē / and Te deū songen / so that nothyng was talked of in all the towne but thys myracle. So happened it than that duke hūfrey of gloucester a great wise mā & very well lerned / hauyng greate Ioy to se such a myracle / called y ^• pore mā vnto hym And fyrst shewyng hym selfe ioyouse of goddys glory so shewed ī y ^• gettyng of hys syght / & exortyng hym to mekenes & to none ascrybyng of any parte y ^• worshyp to hym self / nor to be proud of the peoples prayse whych wolde call hym a good & a godly man therby / At last he loked well vppon hys eyen and asked whyther he coud neuer se nothīg at all in all hys lyfe before. And whan as well hys wyfe as hym self affermed fastely no / than he loked aduysedly vppō hys eyen agayne / & sayed I beleue you very well / for me thynketh y ^t ye cā not see well yet. yes syr q he I thanke god & hys holy marter I can se now as well as any man. ye cā quod the duke / what colour is my gowne? Thā anō y ^• begger told hī. what color q he is thys mānys gown? he told hī also [...] & so furth wythoute any stykkyng / he told hym the names of all the colours that could be shewed hym. And whē my lord saw that / he bad hym walk faytoure / And made hym be sett openly in y ^e stokkys. For though he could haue seen [...]oodēly by myracle y ^e dy [...]ference bytweene dy­uerse colors / yet coud he not by y ^e sight so sodenly tell y ^e names of all thees co­lours but yf he had knowen thē before nomore thā y ^• names of all y ^• men that he shulde sodēly se. Lo therfore I saye quod youre frende who may be sure of such thyngys whan such pageantys be played before all y ^• towne. I remēber me now what a worke I haue hard of that was at lempster ī y ^• kyngꝭ fathers dayes where y ^e pryour brought preuyly a straūge wēche īto y ^e chyrch y ^t sayd she was sent thyther by god / & wold not ly oute of y ^e chyrch / And aftere she was gratid w ^tī irē gratꝭ aboue ī y ^• rood loft where it was byleued y ^t she liued w ^tout any mete or drynke ōly by āgels fode. And dyuers tymes she was houseled ī syght of y ^e peopl [...] w ^t ā hoste vncōse­crate / & all y ^e peple lokīg vpō / ther was w ^t a small here y ^t cōueyd y ^e hoste from y ^e patē of y ^e chalyce out of y ^e pryours hā ­dꝭ īto her mouth as thogh it cā alone / [Page xix] so that all the people not of the towne only / but also of y ^• con [...]rey about / toke her for a very quyk saynte / and dayly soughte so thyk to se her / that many y ^t coud not come nere to her cryed owte alowd / [...]oly mayden Elyzabeth helpe me [...] and were fayn to throw theyr offe­rīg ouer theyr felows heddꝭ for prece. Now lay the pryour wyth holy maydē Elyzabeth nyghtly in the roode lofte / tyll she was a [...]ter taken out & tryed in the kepyng of my lady the kyngys mother. And by the longynge for mete w ^t voydaunce of that she had etyn which had no sayntly sauour / she was parceyuyd for no saynte and confessyd all the mater. In fayth q I it had bene gret aluies y ^e pryour & she had bene burnyd to gether at one stake. what cam of the pryour? ¶Quod he that cā I not tell / But I weene he was put to suche po­nishment as the pore nunne was / that had gyuen her in penaunce to say this verse. Miserere mei deus / quoniam conculcauit me homo. w ^t a grete thre [...]e that and she dyd so any more she shuld say y ^e hole psalme. But as for holy may den Elsabeth I harde say she lyuyd & faryd well / & was a comē harlot at Calyce many a fayre day after / where she laughed at the mater full merely. The more pyte q I that she was so let pas. ¶That ys trouth quod he. But now what say you what trust can we haue / or at lest way what suerte can we haue in such thyngys whan we se thē faynid so shamfully in the face of the world / & so mych people abusyd so far / that they wold not haue lettyd to swere / & some to ieopard theyr lyuys theron / that all this work was wroght by goddys hād tyll the troth cam to lyght / and y ^t drab dryuen out of the chyrch in the dyuyls name. ¶Uerely sayd I there was abusyon in the tone syde / & grete foly in y ^e tother syde. And as y ^• noble duke Hū ­frey wysely found out the falshed of y ^t blyson begger / so dyd that noble lady the kyngys mother prudētly decypher & founde out that bestely fylth. And to say the trouth there was cause inough in both these partyes wherof the peple myght resonably gather so mych suspicyon / y ^t yf they had made theruppō suffycyent inquysycion & serch / they coud neuer haue beene so far [...]e abusyd. For both myght they well mystruste a beg­gers worde whom they had but newly known & well lykly to ly for to wynne fu [...]st fauour & after money / And also men might well thynk that a yong she saynte was not metely to be shrynyd quyk in a monastery among a meyny of monkys. And yet in conclusyon be­cause no such faynyd wonders shulde ēfane goddꝭ very myracles / his goodnes shortly broght them both to knowlege. And so doth hys especyall cure & prouydence bryng euer shortely suche falshed and faytery to lyghte to theyre shame and confusyon. And as he dyd in Berna a gret cyte in Almayne brīg to knowlege y ^e fals myracles / wherby certayne frerys abusyd the people / for whych they were openly burnyd. And so god alway bryngyth such fals myracles to lyght. ¶Nay nay q he there be many such I warrant you y ^t neuer [...]ū to light / & ar styll taken for very good ¶ye cannot very well warant yt q I. For syth god brought to lyghte y ^• false faynyd myracle of y ^e prestꝭ of the ydoll Bell in y ^• old tyme / as appetyth in the xiiii. chapter of y ^• prophet Danyell / yt is more likly y ^• amōg crystē mē he wyl suffer no suche thyngys longe lye hyd. And also howe can ye warraunte that many of th [...]se myracles be false.

[Page]For whyle ther is no dowte but many be trew / and ye knowe not eny which ye precysely knowe for false / ye be not sure whyther eny be such or not. Mary quod he y ^• reasō holdeth as well on the tother side. For syth I knowe not any whych I precysely knowe for trewe / I know not whither eny be trew or not. Nay quod I that argument wyll not serue you so. For though no mā bidith you to beleue y ^t euery thyng ys trewe y ^t ys told for a myracle / yet sū there be of whych ye must nedys rekē your selfe sure / and of whych ye can not yf ye be a chrystē mā haue any scruple or dowte. ye quod he? Fayne wold I wit whych were one of those. Mary quod I all y ^• are wrytten in the gospell. Mary quod he that wote I well / but them we speke not of / for they were done by god hym selfe. why q I be they not so all. If ye wyll not agre y ^• ye be not sure of any which be told by sayntꝭ / whatsaye you by the myracles of thapostels wryten by saynt luke. Nay q he ye mysse take me yet / for I do not mean eny mistrust in the myracles dō of old tyme by god for hys appostellys or holy marters in coraboracyon and settyng forth of the fayth. I mene ōly these myracles that men tell and talke of nowe a dayes / to be don at those Imagys where these pylgrymagys be / and where we see sū of them our selfe proued playnly false / And yet told for so trew / and so many false shrewes affyrme it / so many siple soules trust it / so mych folyshe folke be lyue it / that a mā may well with reasō mystrust all y ^e remnant. Ueryly quod I and yet I thynke that [...]ryste amōge chryste people suffreth not such thīgys to happē ofte / nor such delusyō to last long / but shortely (to theyre shame as yt hath appered in some) doth vt [...]r [...] make open theyre falshed as hym selfe sayed of all such. That ye whysper one in an others ere shalbe preched oute a lowd vppon the rygge of y ^• house rofe.

¶The .xv. chapiter

¶The author sheweth y ^t yf of those miracles that are told and wrytten to be done at dyuers pylgrymagys & cōmynly beleuyd for very trewe / we certeynly knew some falsly fay­ned / yet were that no cause to mys­trust the remnaunt.

But be yt y ^t amonge so many my­racles as be dayly told & wrytē dō at diuers pilgrimagꝭ / betwē which myracles and other why ye put a defe­rence we shall as I sayd before knowe ferther your mīd hereafter / And be it also that of such as long haue be repu­ted and styll taken for trew / your selfe vndoutedly knewe sum for very false / wold ye therfore thynk that among all y ^• remnaūt / ther were neuer one trew? what if ye fynd som fayer womā paynted whose colour ye had went wer na­turall / wyll ye neuer after beleue that any woman in the worlde hath a fayre colour of her selfe? If ye fynd som fals flatterers that long semed frēdly wyll ye take euer after all y ^• world for suche? If some proue starke ipochrytes whō the world wold haue sworn for good & godly mē / shall we therfore mystruste all other for theyr sake and wene there wer none good at all? By my troth q he I rode ons ī good cōpany / & to say y ^• troth for good cōpany to walsynghā in pylg [...]mage / where a good felows hors so fell in haltynge y ^t he was fayne to hyer a nother and let hym goo lose / whych was so lene and so pore and hallted so sore y ^• empty as he was he could scant kepe fote with vs. And when we had went we shuld haue left hī behīde / [Page xx] sodenly he spyed a mare / and forth he lymped on thre legges so lustely / that hys masters hors wyth foure fete coud [...]āt ouer take hī. But whā he caught hym & cam agayne / he sware in greate anger all the othys he myght swere y ^t he wold trust haltyng syr Thomas the worse whyle he lyuyd. what was that haltīg syr thomas quod I. Mary q he theyr paryshe preste as he told vs / as lene and as pore and as haltynge as hys horse / and as holy to. But syn he wold whyle he lyued mystrust y ^• haltīg preste for hys haltīg horse / yf I fynde an holy horeson halte in ypochrysye / I shall not fayle while I lyue to trust all hys felowes the worse. well quod I ye speke merely / but I wot well ye wyll do better what so euer ye lay. Nor I ā sure though ye se sum whyte safyre or byrall soo well counterfete / and so set in a ryng y ^t a ryght goode iueller wyll take it for a dyomound / yet wyl ye not dowt for all y ^t but y ^t there be in many other ryngꝭ all redy set right diamoūtꝭ in dede. Nor ye wyll not mystrust saīt Peter for iudas. Nor thoughe the iues were many so noughty that they put chryst to deth [...] yet ye be wyser I wot [...] well than the gētyllwomā was / whych in talkyng ones wyth my father when she harde saye y ^t our lady was a iewe / fyrst could not beleue it / but sayd what ye mok I wylle I pray you tell trouth. And when it was so fully affermede y ^• she at last beleued it / & was she a Iewe quod she so helpe me god and halydō I shall loue her y ^• worse whyle I lyue. I ā sure ye wyll not do so / nor mistrust all for some neyther men nor myracles

The .xvi. chapiter

¶Thauthor sheweth that who soo wold enquere shuld sone fynd that at pylgrymagys bene dayly many gret & vndowted myracles wroght and well knowen. And specyally he speketh of the great & open myracle shewed at our lady of Ippyl wyche of late vppon the doughter of Syr Roger went worthe knyghte.

ANd as for y ^• poynt y ^• we spake of concernyng myracles done in our dayes at diuerse imagys where these pylgrymagys be / yet could I tell you some such done so openly / so farre from all cause of suspycyō / and therto testyfyed in such suf [...]ycyent wyse / that he myght seme allmost madde y ^t her [...]g y ^• hole mater will mystrust y ^e miracles. Amonge whych I durste boldelye tell you for one the wōderfull work of god that was w ^tyn these few yeres wroght in the house of a ryghte worshypfull knyght syr Roger wentworth vppon dyuerse of hys chyldern / and specyally one of hys doughters a very fayr yōge gentyll woman of .xii. yeres of age in maruelouse maner vexyd & turmē [...]yd by our gostely ennemy the deuyll / her mynd alienated & rauyng w ^t dyspisyng and blasphemye of god / and hatered of all halowed thyngꝭ / wyth knowleg and perse [...]uynge of the halowed from the vnhalowed / all were she nothyng warned therof. And after that moued in her owne mynde and moneshed by the wyll of god to goo to oure ladye of Ippyswyche. In the waye of whyche pylgrymage she prophesyed and tolde many thyngys done and sayed at the same tyme ī other placys whyche were proued trew / and many thyngꝭ sayed lyyng in her traunce of such wysoome and letnyng that ryght connyng men hyghly marueyled to here of so yong an vnlernede mayden whan her selfe wyst not what she sayde / such thyngys vttred and spoken as well lerned men [Page] myght haue myssed wyth a lōge study, and fynally beyng brought and layed before the ymage of our blessed lady / [...]as there ī y ^e syght of many worshyp­full people so greuouslye turmentede / and in face eyene loke & countenaūce so grysely chaunged wyth her mouth drawen asyde / and her eyene leyd oute vppon her chekys y ^t yt was a terryble syght to behold. And after many maruelouse thyngys at y ^e sāe tyme shewed vppon dyuers parssones by the deuyll thorow goddys sufferaūce / as well all the remnant as the mayden herself in the presence of all the cūpany restored to theyre goode state perfitely cured & sodēly. And ī thys matter no pretexte of beggyng / no suspycyō of faynyng / no possybylyte of counterfettyng / no symplenesse ī the seers / her father and mother ryght honorable and rych sore abashed to se such chaunces in theyre chylderne / the wytnes / grete noūber / and many of grete worshyp / wysdome and good experyēce / the mayd her self to yong to fayne / and y ^e fashyon it self to straūge for any man to fayne / And the ende of the matter vertuouse / the vyrgyne so mouyd ī her mynde w ^t the myracle / that she forthwyth for ought her father could do / forsoke the world and professed relygyon in a very good and godly cumpanye at the mynoresse where she hath lyued well & graciously euer syns.

The .xvii. chapiter

¶The messenger laythe forth obieccyons agaynst myracles dōe at pylgrymagys / of whych he confessyth many to be trew. but he layth causes and reasōs wherby he seyth y ^t many men be moued to beleue and thynk that those myracles y ^t be don there be dōe by y ^e deuyll to sett our hartꝭ vppon ydolatry by y ^e worshyppyng of ymagys in stede of god.

BUt nowe albe yt as I sayed y ^t I myght allege you thys myracle and proue yt you in such wyse that I wot well ye wold be as far owte of all dowte therof as ye wold be depe in the maruayle of the myracle / And peraduēture dyuerse other could I shewe you done of late at dyuerse pylgryma­gys / and proue them well to / yet wold I fayn fyrst here of you / what dystynccyon and dyfferēce ys y ^t that ye make / and wherfore ye make it bitwene y ^e myracles don of olde tyme / and these that be now adayes don at these pylgrymagys. Syr quod he sum what a lytle I towched yt in the begynnyng & made in maner a glaunce therat. But loth wer I to hyt yt wyth a full shot and a sharpe as I haue sene sum wyth suche reasons cleeue the pryk in twayne / y ^t they semyd to bere ouer the but And all [...]whych reasons I wolde be loth in so sore maner to allege / lest I myght happely gyue you sū occasyō to thynk that eyther I set to sumwhat of myne owne / or elles at the leste wyse lyked well that syde and wer a fauorer of y ^e factyō / Nay nay quod I fere not that hardely / for neyther ā I so suspecyouse to mystrust that one thynkyth euyll because he defēdeth the worse parte well by way of argumente and reasonyng / And also I truste that all theyr shottꝭ shalbe so far to feble to bere ouer y ^t but that few of them shall towche y ^e mark / many to faynt to perce the paper / And sum to hygh / and sum to shorte / And some walk to wyde of y ^t but by a bow. And therfore I requyre you spare not to bryng forth all y ^t euer ye haue harde [...]or that ye thynke may be sayde in the mater. ¶Syr quod he syth ye can here [Page xxi] yt so indyfferently / I shall not spare to speke it. And suerly to begynne w ^tall y ^t I thynk trew I wyll not fayle to con­fesse. For albe yt that I haue long styc­ked wyth you to wythstand any cre­dence to be geuē to myracles dō now adayes / in whych I haue moch y ^e lēget stykked bycause of sum whom I haue knowē ere thys so farre from y ^e byleue of any myracles at all / y ^t in good feyth they put me half ī dowte whether they beleue that there wer god at all / if they du [...]st for drede & shame haue sayd all y ^t they semed to thynk / yet to saye the truth I neuer hard any thyng sayd so sore therin y ^t euer moued me to thynk y ^t any reason wold bere the importune mystrust of them / that amōg so many ā open myracle as ys dayly in dyuers placys doon / wolde wene that none at all wer trew. But veryly as I begōne a lytell to touche in the begynnynge whether these myracles be made by god & for good sayntys or by y ^e deuyll for oure deceyt and delusyon / albeyt I beleue & euer wyll as the chyrch doth / yet sum men among sum such thyngꝭ say therin that I am dryuē to doo as I do in other articlys of the fayth / lene fast vnto belefe for any reason that I fynde to make them āswere wyth. For fyrst they take for a groūde y ^t the deuill may do myracles / Or yf we lyst / not to suffer thē callyd by y ^t name / the mater shalbe therby nothyng amēded. for yf we wyll haue only called by the name of myracles thyngys by god dō aboue nature / yet wyll we not deny but that god sufferethe y ^e deuyll to worke won­ders whych the people cā not dyscerne from myracles. And therfore whē they se them / myracles shall they call them / and for myracles shall they take them. Now syth yt so is that the deuyll may do suche thyngys / whereby shall we be [...]ure that god doth them? And syth the dyuyll may do theym / & we be not sure that god doth them / why may not we aswell beleue that y ^e dyuyll doth them ¶Mary sayd I ye told me that ye sett noght by Logyk / but now ye play the Logycyen out ryghte. Howe be yt that argument men may torne ō the tother syde & saye / that syth god may do them mych beter than the dyuyll / and we be not sure that the dyuyll doth thē / why shulde we not rather beleeue that god doth them / whych may do them beter. And myche more reason yt ys where a wonderfull work ys wrought there / to ascrybe yt to god the master of all mastryes / rathere than the dyuyll that can do nothyng but by su [...]fraunce / excepte we se some cause that cānot suffer that work to be rekenyd goddys. ¶well q he / than is yt reason that we shew you sum such cause. It ys quod he cause y­noughe in that we se that god hath yn scrypture forboden suche ymagry / and that vnder great maledyccyon / As yn the law. Non facies tib [...] sculptile. And ī the psalme. In exitu israel de egipto / where he furst by the mouth of the Prophete / dyscrybyth the folye of suche as worshyppyth those imagys / that hath crys and cannot here / handis and can not feele / fete and cannot go / mouth & cannot speke. All whych absurdytees & vnresonable folyes apperyth aswell in the worshyp of our imagꝭ as in the panyms idollys. And after he shewith the maledyccion y ^t shall fall theruppō / Seynge lyke mote they be to them all such as make them / & all suche as put­tyth theyr trust in thē. And forthwyth he declareth in whom good men haue theyr trust / and the profyte that proce­dyth theruppon saynge. Domus israel [Page] sperauit in domino adiutor eorū et ꝓ­tector eorumest / The house of Israell hath put theyre truste in our lorde the helper and defender of thē ys he. Now when the wordys of god be clere / open and playne vppon thys syde / what re­ason ys yt to beleue the cōmentys and glosys of menne wherewyth ye wold wynde owt agaynst she trew textys of god? what shulde we gyue credens to thēnsample of mēnys doyngꝭ ageynst the playne commaūdement of goddys wrytyngys. And whē that ōly chryste ys our sauyour and our medyatour to bryng our nature agayne to god / and our oonly proctour and aduocat afore hys father and may helpe vs best and will helpe vs most / what shall we make eyther our lady or ēny other creature our aduocat or praye to thē whych of lykelyhod here vs not / For there can none of them be present at so many placys at onys as they be callede vppon. and if they were / yet arte they no nere vs then god hī selfe / nor so fayne wold that we dyd well as he y ^t dyed for vs. and therfore whā we not only doo thē reuerence (whyche I were contēt wer done them for goddes sake as ye sayd before) but also praye to them / we doo chryste and god great Iniury. For yf we pray to thē as medytours & aduocatꝭ for vs / we take fro Cryste hys office & gyue yt them. yf we aske helpe & helth of them / then make we thē playne god dys and betake to them the power of y ^e godhed. For only god ys yt y ^t geuethe all good as wytnessyth saynt Iames. Euery good and very perfyte gyfte cō meth from aboue descendyng from the father of lyghtys. And suerly yf we cō ­syder how we behaue vs to thē though ye saye that all the honoure geuen to sayntes redoundeth vnto god / syth yt ys doon as ye saye not for theyr owne sakys but for hys / yet wold not I wene that god be well cōtent that we shuld for hys sake do to any creature lyke honour as to hym selfe. For scrypture sayeth that he wyll not gyue hys glory frō hym nor to any other creature lyke honoure as to hym selfe / And therfore y ^e scolys as I here saye deuyse a treble dyfference in worshyppyng / callyng y ^e one dulya the reuerence or worshyp y ^t man dothe to man / as the bonde man to the lorde. The second yꝑdulya that a man doth to a more excellent crea­ture as to angellys or sayntys. The thyrde latria the veneracyon honoure and adoracyon that cretures doth ōly to god. In whych of these partyes ye put the worshypping of imagys / I am neyther so well sene therin to tell / nor so curyouse gretly to care. But thys I se well yf any of all these .iii. kyndes of worshyp be better thē other / thymagꝭ hath yt. For they haue all that euer we cā doo. For what do wee to god when we doo worshyp hym in that fassyon y ^t they call latria / but we doo the same to sayntys and ymagys bothe? yf yt stande in knelyng / we knele to saintys and theyre ymagys. yf in prayeng / we praye as bytterly to them as to god. yf in sensyng and settyng vp of cādyllys we cense them also and sett some saynt vii. candelles agaynst god one. So y ^t what so euer fassyon of worshyppyng latria be / the same ys as largely don to sayntys and ymagꝭ as to god / And thys not vnto ymagys only (whyche though they haue no lyfe haue yet som shappe and fassyon after man) but as menne wene vnto pyggys bonys also sumtyme. For what reuerent honour ys there dayly don vnder y ^e name and oppynyon of a sayntys relyke / to sum [Page xxii] old rotton bone that was happely sumtyme as Chaucer sayth a bone of some holy Iewes shepe. Se we not y ^t someone sayntys hed ys shewid ī .iii. placys And some one hoole sayntys body ly­eth in dyuers contres / yf we beleue the lyes of y ^e people. And in bothe the pla­cys ys y ^t one body worshypped where the one or the other ys false / and one body mystakyn for a nother / an euyll man happely for a good. And yet wyll the prestes of both placys take offryn­gꝭ and toll men theder wyth myracles to. In whych case eyther must ye saye that the myracles of the one place bee false and feynid / or elles that myracles make not your matter good nor proue your pilgrimagꝭ trew. & yet myght all this gere be mich y ^e beter born if it wer trew y ^e ye defend the thyngꝭ w ^tall / whē ye saye that in worshyppyng of sayntꝭ and ymagis men worshyp neyther the tone nor y ^e tother as goddys / but thyn­gys for the sayntys and the sayntis for god. But now as yt semeth the matter ys ī dede far otherwyse / For the peple pray to the sayntys for theyre necessy­tys / puttynge thereto truste for theyre petycyons in the sayntys them selfe as though god gaue yt not but they. And in the ymagys putte the people theyre truste in stede of the sayntys self / For albe yt that yt myght stande wyth reasō as ye haue āswered me that presup­posed the myracles in these pylgrymagys to be doon by god / y ^e peple myght then wyth reason goo seke and vysyte such placys as god by miracle declared that he wolde haue hym selfe or hys holy sayntys sought and honored in / yet now thys answere to wcheth the poynt but in parte & matcheth not the hoole matter / For the people doo not onlye vysyte these placys and ther do all the worshyp to the sayntys y ^• they can possyble doo to god (wyth hope of theyre helpe from the sayntys self / whych they shuld well wyt ōly to be geuin by god / and thus by thys demenour make the sayntys goddys fellawes / y ^t [...]s to saye the seruantys matches w ^t theyr master and the creaturs matys to the maker) but also vse them selfe in as relygyous fassyon / and as feruent affeccyō to the ymagꝭ of stone or tre / as eyther to sait or god. And playnly take these ymagꝭ for the sayntys selfe and for god hym selfe. And put in these ymagꝭ of theyr pylgrymagys theyre full hope & hoole trust y ^t they shuld put in god. ¶whych besydes that I haue sayd byfore apperyth well in thys / that they wyll make comparysōs betwene our lady of Ips­wych and our lady of walsyngam / As weenyng y ^e one ymage more of power thē the tother / whych they wold neuer doo / but if ī stede of our lady they put theyre truste in the Image selfe. And the people in spekyng of our lady / Of all our ladyes sayeth one / I loue beste our lady of walsingham / And I sayth the other oure lady of Ipeswyche. In whyche wordys what menyth she but her loue and her affeccyon to the sto [...] that standyth in y ^e chapell at walsyng­ham or Ipswych.

¶what say you whā the peple speke of thys fassyon in theyr paynys & parellis Helpe holye crosse of Bradinan. Helpe our dere lady of walsyngham. Doth yt not playnly appere y ^t eyther they trust in the imagys in Crystys stede & oure ladys / lettyng Cryst and our lady go / or take at the leste wyse those ymagys so / that they wene they were verely the tone Cryst the tother our lady her self [...] And so euery way the fayth and deuocion wythdrawen frō god that shulde [Page] haue yt & our hartys by these ymagys blynded and set vppō the dede stockꝭ and stonys. Now se the good frute al­so y ^t foloweth theruppon. I lett passe ouer the faytery and falsehede that ys therein vsed amonge / sumtyme by the prestes / sūtyme by beggers in faynīg of false myracles. Loke what deuocyon men come thyther wyth. wyth the moste com they that moste abuse them selfe / such I mene as moste trust haue and blynde fayth in these blynde ymagys. But the most part y ^t cōmeth / commyth for no deuocyon at all / but only for good cōpany to bable thyderward and drynke dronk there / and daunce & rele homward. And yet here is not all For I tell you nothyng now of many a noughty pak / many a flekke and hys make that maketh theyre metyngꝭ at these holsum hallows. And many that semeth an honeste huswyfe at home / hath helpe of a bawde to bryng her to myschefe as she walketh abrode about her pylgrymagys. I harde onys when I was a chylde the good scottysh freer father d [...]ld whom I reken suerly for a saynt yf there be eny ī heuyn / I hard hym prech at powlys crosse that our la­dy was a vyrgyn and yet at the pilgrymagꝭ be made many a foule metyng. And loude he cryed out. ye mē of lōdō gang on your selfe wyth your wyffys to wyllesoon in the deuylles name or ellys kepe thē at heme wyth you wyth sorow. And surely so many good men wene yt were best / cōsyderyng y ^t those vyagys bene but wanderyng abowte vanyte or supersticyous deuocyō / and the nexte dore to Idoletry when men haue theyre af [...]eccyons in stede of god bounden to blokkys and stonys / And now syth that thys gere ys such / what marueyle ys yt though (as I sayd be­fore) the deuyll be gladde to geue attē ­daunce theron / and doo for hys parte what he maye to helpe hys owne deuycys forward? Or what marueyle ys yt though god in thys cursyd world whē we fall from hym to other / and from y ^t honoure of hym selfe to hys sayntys / when we doo as the Paynyms dyd in stede of god worshyp māmottys / and all thys by fallynge to folowe mennys glosys before hys one textꝭ / what wō der ys yt though god agayn serue vs as he seruyd thē / and suffer the deuyll delude vs as he dyd them / and make vs lene to fals miracles as we fall wylfully to fals goddys? Thus say they q he that speke on y ^t syde / And yet moch more then I cā call to mynd. But suerly syth ye willyd me to forbere nothīg / I haue as I coud rather set to sūwhat not of myn owne opynyō / but of myn owne inuencyon / then any thyng left owt that I coulde remember whyche I had euer hard any man ley / to ꝓue the myracles done at pylgrymagys to be vncertayn by whō they be wroght / or rather to proue that they shulde not be goddes myracles but the deuyllys wonders.

The .xviii. chapiter

¶The author dyfferreth thanswere to the forsayde obieccyons. & fyrst by scrypture he proueth y ^t y ^e chyrche of chryste can not erre in eny necessary artycle of chrystys fayth. And in thys chapyter bee those wordys of cryst specyally touched. Suꝑ cathe­dram Moysi sederūt. &c. Que dicūt vobis facite. que autem faciunt no­lite facere / cōcernyng the authoryte of the chyrch.

SUerly quod I for my parte I cā you very good thāk for ye haue not fayntely defendyd youre parte as [Page xxiii] though yt were a corruptyd aduocate y ^t wold by colusyon hādell hys clyentꝭ mater feebly for the pleasure of hys ad­uersary / but ye haue sayd therin / I cā tell whe [...]her as mych as any man may say / but certenly I suppose as mich as ye eyther haue hard any man say or cā your self say / And at y ^e lest wyse much more than I haue hard of any mā els / or coud haue sayd of my self. And vn­dowtyd as ye spake of shotyng in the begynnīg / thys gere how nere it goeth to the pryk we shall see after. But thys I promyse you yt wold fayn bere ouer the but & all. For if yt myght hold & be bidden by / and were as well ab [...]e to be prouyd trew as I trust to ꝓue yt fals / the but we shote at were quite gon for any suerte y ^t we coud rekē of our fayth & cristendome. But now to cum to the poynte / Syth yt is agreed all redy be­twene vs / that at these ymagys & pyl­grymagys myracles bene there / eyther shewyd by god for the comprobacyon of hys plesure theryn / or wōders wro­ught by the dyuyll for oure delusyon & dampnacyon / If it may eyther appere to vs y ^t they be not done by the dyuell / then wyll yt well folow y ^t they be done by god. Or yf it be prouyd to be done by god for the good of hys chirch / then wyll it be clere ynough that they be no wonders wrought by the dyuell to the dysceyt of crysten peple. And syth that eyther other of [...]these partyes prouyd / implyeth the reprofe of your purpose / I wyll assay to shew / & trust ryght well to proue you the trouth of our syde by sum one of these ways or paraduēture by both / that ys to wete aswell in pro­uyng that god doth these myracles / as in reprouing & confutyng y ^t they shuld be done by the dyuell. And furst wold I fayne mete wyth your obieccyons & answer them forthwyth whyle they be fresh / sauyng that me semith better for the whyle to differ them / forasmuch as sum thyngꝭ therbe / wheruppon it wyll be requisyte y ^t we furst be both agreed: wythout whych we were lyke to walke wyde in wordys & ronne at all ryot so lose / that our mater could nother haue ground / order / nor ende. ¶Now yf I wer in thys mater to dyspute w ^t a pay­nym that wolde make the questyon betw [...]ne theyr myracles & ours / albeyt I shuld haue a clere mater in thend / yet must it nedys be a longe mater & much entryked or yt shuld cū at thend. And hole bokys wold yt hold / both the con­futyng of theyrs & vnto them thassertacyō of our own / specyally for that they receyue not oure scrypture / & betwene them & vs nothyng cōmune to groūd vppon but reason. And yf we shoulde dyspute w ^t a iew lesse labour shuld we haue / syth that we shulde haue w ^t hym thogh he deny the new testamente / yet reson & y ^e old testament agreed vppō / wherin we shuld not [...]ary for the text but for y ^e sentence and vnderstanding. For therein we shulde haue hym styfly wythstande vs. ¶But now syth wee shall in our mater dyspute and reason wyth those that agree theym selfe for crysten menne / oure dyspycyons ys so much the shorter in that we muste ne­dys aggree to gether in moo thyngy [...]. For wee muste agree in reason where fayth refusyth yt not. And ouer that wee shall agree vppon the hole corpus of scrypture / aswell the new testament as the olde. But in the interpretacyon wee maye paraduenture stykke. Is yt not so? ¶yes quod he. ¶well quod I / ys there any other thynge wherein ye thynke that wee shall vary / but the [Page] interpretacyō of the scrypture. ¶Not that I remember quod he / except the scrypture yt self wheruppō we talk / as of the worshyppyng of ymagꝭ or pray­eng to sayntys / in whych men thynke there can be no greate questyon yf the scrypture be well interpretyd. ¶ ye do q I agre that such thyngys as arn mē cyonyd in the gospell spokyn by Cryst vnto saynt Peter & other hys apostels & dyscyples / were not only sayd to thē self / nor onely for them selfe / but to thē for theyer successours in Crystys flok / And by them to vs all / that ys to wete euery man as shall appertayne to hys parte. ¶whereby mene you that q he. ¶I mene quod I as for ēsample whā he sayd / Nisi abundauerit iusticia ve­stra plusquam Scribarū & phariseo (rum) / non intrabitis i [...] regnū celo (rum). Except your iustyce abound & excede y ^e iustyce of the Scrybys & pharesyes / ye shall neuer cū in heuyn. And where he saith If thou wylt enter into the kyngdome of heuyn kepe the cōmaundementys / dyd he not say such thyngys to theym for all crystyn men y ^t shuld come after? ¶I thynke yes quod he for the seconde word concernyng the cōmaūdmentꝭ. But as for the furst / that theyr iustyce shulde be better than the iustyce of the scrybys & pharesyes / paraduenture he spake specyally to hys appostels them self / y ^t they shuld not be lyke y ^e scrybys & pharesyes / whych comaundyd other many thyngys / & dyd nothyng theym selfe. ¶That ys in my mynde quod I well taken. and so doth holy saynt Au­gustyne expoune it. But syth ye think he sayd that word to hys appostels specyally rather than to all hys hole flok / whether thīk you that he sayd yt onely to them / or els to all other also y ^t shuld after come in theyr placis & succede thē in offyce? ¶Nay for god q he to all y ^e byshoppys he sayd yt & prelatꝭ & spyrytuall rulers of hys chirch y ^t euer shalbe in y ^e chyrch / forbyddyng them to binde & lay vppon other pore mennys bakkꝭ importunable burdeyns / to the bering wherof thē self wyll not onys put forth a fynger. ¶Uery well sayd q I. what thynke you than of that he sayd / Do ye suche thyngys as they byd you do / but do not as ye se thē do? ¶In that wold our lord quod he y ^t all the people shuld do all that the prelatys shuld cōmaūd as far as was cōmaundyd in the lawe by god / but he mente no further. And therfore he sayed that they sat vppon y ^e chayr of Moyses. & he wyllyd that they shuld for y ^e cause be obeyd. And therin he ment in such thyngys onely as they shuld cōmaund / that were by god commaundyd the people in the law gyuen vnto Moyses. And that crystyn men in lykewise shall obey the byshoppys & prelatys / commaundynge onely suche thyngys as hym self hath cōmaundyd hys people in hys gospell & hys owne law. ¶And in nothyng els q I? what meanyth yt than that our Lorde in the parable of the Samarytane / beryng y ^e woūdyd mā into y ^e inne of hys church / and delyueryng hym to the hoste after that hym self had dressyd hys woundꝭ wythe wyne and oyle / & lef [...]e wyth the hoste the .ii. grotys of the two testamē tys / promysyd the hoste besyde / y ^e what so euer the hoste wolde bestowe vppon him more / he wold when he cam agayn recompense hym therfore? And also in that place that we spake of our Sauyour sayd that the Scrybys and pharesyes besyde y ^e law of Moyses on whose sete they satt / dyd lay greate fardellys and faste bounde them on other men­nys bakkis / to the beryng wherof they [Page xxiiii] wold not moue a fynger thē self. And yet for all that he bad y ^• peple do what theyr prelatys wold byd them / though the burden were heuy / And let not to do yt though they shuld se the bydders do clene the contrary. for whych he ad­dyd / but as they do / do not you. ¶By oure lady q he I lyke not thys glose. For yt makyth all for the bo [...]dys / by which the laws of the church bynde vs to more a do thā y ^e iewes were almost wyth Moyses lawe. And I wote well Cryst sayd cum to me ye that be ouer­chargyd and I shall refreshe you. And hys appostels sayd / that the bare lawe of Moyses beside the ceremonys that were set to by the scrybys & the phare­syes / were more than euer theye were able to bere and fulfyll. And therefore cryst cā to call vs into a law of liberte. And y ^t was in takyng away the bande of those wery ceremoniall lawes. And therfore sayth our sauyour of the law y ^t he callyth vs vnto / My yoke (saythe he) ys fyt and easy / & my burdeyn but lyght. wherby yt apperyth that he mēt to take away the strayte yoke & put on a more easy. And to take of the heuy burdeyne & lay on a lyghter. whyche he had not done yf he wold lade vs wyth a fardell full of mennys lawes mo thā a carte can cary away. ¶The lawes of Cryste quod I be made by hym selfe & hys holy spyryte for the gouernaunce of hys people / and bee not in hardnes & dyffyculte of kepyng any thyng lyke to the lawes of Moyses. And thereof durst I for nede make your self iudge. For yf ye bethynk you well / I wene if ye were at thys age now to chose / yow wold rather be bounden to many of y ^e lawes of Crystys chyrch than to y ^e cyr­cumcysyō alone. Nor to as much ease as we wene that Cryste callyd vs / yet be not y ^e laws y ^t haue [...]ne made by his chyrch of halfe the payne nor halfe the dyffyculte that hys own be / whych him self puttyth in the gospell / though wee set asyde the councellys. It ys I trow more hard not to swere at all thā to forswere / to forbere ech angry word than not to [...]ill / cōtinuall wa [...]h & prayer thē a few days appoyntid. Than what an anxyete & solicytude is there in y ^e forberīg of euery ydyll word? what an hard thret after the worldly cōpt for a small matter? Neuer was there almoste so sore a worde sayed vnto the Iues by Moyses / as ys to vs by Cryste in that worde alone where he sayethe that we shall of euery ydle worde gyue accōpt at the day of iugmente. what saye ye then by deuorsys restraynyd & lybertie of dyuerse wyuys wythdrawen / wher they hade lyberte to wedde for theyre pleasure yf they cast a fantesy to any y ^t they toke ī the warr. ¶One of y ^e ware ys ynoughe quod he to make any one mā warre. ¶Now that is merily sayd q I / but though one eye were inough for a fletcher / yet ys he for store cōtent to kepe twayn / and wold though they were sumtyme sore both and shuld put hym to sū payn / what ease also call you thys that we be bounden to abyde all sorow and shamefull deth and all marterdum vppō payne of perpetuall dāpnacyon for the professyon of our fayth. Trowe ye y ^t these easy wordys of hys easy yoke and lyght burden were not as well spoken to hys apposteles as to you. and yet what ease called he them to. Called he not them to watchynge / fastyng / prayeng / preching / walkyng / hunger / thurst / cold / and hete / betyng / scorgynge / prysonemente / paynefull & shamefull deth. The ease of hys yoke stādeth not ī bodely ease / nor the lyghtnes of his burden standeth nott in the [Page] slaknes of any bodely payne (excepte we be so want on that where hym selfe had not heuyn w ^tout payne / we loke to cum thether w ^t playe) but yt stādeth in the swetnes of hope / wherby we fele in our payne a plesaunt taste of h [...]uyne. Thys ys y ^e thyng as holy saynt Gregory Nazanzeno declareth y ^t refresshyth men y ^t arn ladid / & maketh our yoke easy & our burdeyn light. not any delyueryng frō y ^e lawes of y ^e church or frō any good tēꝑall lawes eyther / in to a lewd lyberte of slouthfull reste. For y ^t were not a easy yoke / but a pullyng of y ^e hed owt of y ^e yoke. Nor it were not a lyght burdeyn / but all y ^e burden dyschargyd cōtrary to y ^e wordis of saint poule and saynt Peter both / which as well vnderstode the wordys of theyr mayster as these men doo. And as a thīg cōsonant & well aggreable therw ^t doo cōmaūde vs obedience to our superiors & rulers one & other ī thyngis by god not forboden all though they bene harde & sore. ¶But see for goddes sake how we be ronne a gret way further thē I thoght to go whē I begane / & haue lefte y ^t we shuld go forth wyth all. It ys no losse quod he for there is a good thyng well towched by y ^e waye. well q I let vs go bak agayne where we left. syth ye agre y ^t chryste spake hys wordys not to hys appostels onely for theyr owne tyme / but suche thyngys as he sayd to thē he ment to al y ^t shuld folow thē / And ther of sūwhat he spake to thē for y ^e prestys & bysshoppys onely / As when he sayd / vos estꝭ sal terre / ye be y ^e salt of y ^e erth / & sūwhat to y ^e hole flokke as when he sayd / Mandatū nouū do vobis vt diligatis inuicem sicut ego dilexi vos. I geue you a new cōmaundment y ^t you loue to gethere as I haue louyd you / Tell me thē I requyre you / whā chryst sayd to saynt Peter / sathanas hath de­syred to sy [...]e y ^t as men syfte corne / but I haue prayd for y ^• y ^t thy faith shall not fayle / sayde he thys to h [...] as a promyse of y ^e fayth to be by goddes helpe ꝑpetually kepte & preseruyd in saynte peter only / or elles in y ^e hole churche / that ys to wete y ^e hole cōgregacyō of chrysten people professyng his name & his fayth & abydyng in y ^e body of the same / not being precided & cut of / meanyng y ^t his fayth shuld neuer so vtterly fayle [...] his church / but y ^t yt shulde hole & entyere abide & remayn therī? Mary q he this ys good to be aduysed of. For though chryste for y ^t more parte suche thyngys as he spake to ōe spake to all / accordīg to hys owne wordes / q vm dico ōnibꝰ dico / y ^t I say to one I say to all / yet sū thyngis he sayd & ment perticulerly as he spake it. As when he bad saint peter cū vpō y ^e water to hym / he bad not the remenaunte com so. And so may yt ꝑ­aduenture be y ^t thys word was spoken and ment toward Peter alone. That wylbe q I very harde to hold. For his faythe after fayled. But syth that vp­pon hys fyrst confessyon of the ryghte fayth that chryste was goddes sō / our lorde made hym hys vniuersall vicare / and vndere hym hed of hys churche / And y ^t for hys successour he shuld be y ^e fyrst vppō whō & whose ferme cōfessed fayth he wolde bylde hys churche / & of any y ^t was ōly mā make hym y ^e fyrste & chefe hed and ruler therof / therfore he shewyd hym that hys faythe / that is to wete the fayth by hym confessed / shuld neuer fayle in hys churche nor / neuer dyd yt / not wythstādyng hys denyēg. For yet stode styll the lyghte of faythe in our lady / of whom wee rede in the gospell contynewall assystence to her swetest son wythout fleyng or flyttīg [Page xxv] And in all other we fynde eyther [...]rīg from hym one tyme or other / or ellys doute of his resurreccyō after hys deth (hys dere mother only excepte) For y ^e sygnyfycacyon and rememberaunce wherof the church yerely in the [...]enebre lessons leueth her cādyll burnyng styll when all the remnaunt that signyfyeth hys appostels and dyscyples be one by one put out. And syth his fayth ī e [...]tect fayled / and yet the faythe y ^t he ꝓfessyd abode styll in our lady / y ^e promyse that god made was (as it semith) ment not to hym / but as hed of the churche. And therfore our lorde added therto / And thou beyng one of these dayes conuertyd / conferme & strength thy brethern. In whych by these wordꝭ our sauyour mēt & ꝓmysed that y ^e fayth shuld stand foreuer. So y ^t the gates of hell shulde not preuayle there agaynste. Or elles myght ye say y ^t these wordys spoken to saynt peter / fede my shepe / was mēt but for hym selfe / & no cōmaundmente to any successour of his or any bysshop or prelate. Andby that mean myght ye say also that these wordes of Chrystys promyse made vnto his dyssyples that the holy goste shuld enstructe them of all thyngys / were only mente for them selfe in theyre owne parsons. And not that euer he shulde ēstructe his church af [...]ere theyre dayes. And whenne he sayd wherso euer be.ii.or.iii.gathered to gether in my name there ā I my self among them / we shall say by thys meanes that he ment but of hys own dys­cyples in his owne tyme whyle he was here wyth them / and not that he wold be lyke wyse present wyth suche othere congregacyons ī his chyrch after. And fynally thē were these wordys frustrat where he sayd. Lo I am wyth you all y ^e dayes to y ^e worldes ende. yf he shude mene yt but wyth them that hard hym speke yt / then shuld yt appere y ^t he had intendyd a chyrche onely of them and for theyr tyme / And them from theyr dethe hether all were don. ¶Uerely syr quod he I can well agre that all suche thyngys was spoken by christ to make them sure that the faythe shulde neuer fayle ī his churche / How be it if I durst doute in that poynt one thyng is there that sumwhat styckethe in my mynd. Doute on quod I betwene vs twayn & spare not nor let not to tell me what moueth you. Syr q he I thynk y ^t god setteth no more by fayth thē he doth by charyte. but as for charyte & good wor [...]ꝭ with vertuous lyuyng shall coole & decaye in the churche as our sauyoure sayth ī the .xxiiii.chapyter of mathew. Because iniquite shall aboūd / y ^t charyte of many men shall coole. And sure­ly me thynkythe it is well nere all gon all redy. God forbede quod I. For all be yt y ^t yt gretly day by day decayeth and moche people nought / yet be ther many good men abowte / & shalbe all­wey thoughe they be few in cōparyson of the multytude. And yet is yt not all one of other vertuous and of faythe / y ^t ys to wete of knowlege and byleue of tharticles of our fayth. I mene of such artycles as we be of necessyte bounden to beleue. For albe yt that the flokke of chryste shall neuer lake good & deuout vertuouse people / yet shall both y ^e best be synners / and also moch more y ^e multytude shall euer haue the faythe that I speke of / thā shall haue the goodnes of liuing. why so q he. For.ii.causes q I. one y ^• malyce of y ^e peple wherby they wyll not be so redye to lyue well as to beleue well. for y ^e peple thē self wyll better kepe y ^e fayth thē ot [...]er vertues / syth it is a thīg of l [...]s labour to know what [Page] they shuld byleue / and to beleue yt all so when they knowe yt / then yt ys to worke well. For though the knowlege and byleue bryng many men to the laboure of good workys / yet the worlde cōmenly and the fraylete of our flesshe wyth thētycement of our gostly ēmys make vs wyllīgly and wyttyngly well knowyng and beleuyng the good / yet to walke in the worse. as doth sūtyme the syk man that byleuynge hys phisy­cyon / and hauyng had also ryght often good profe by his owne experyence to hys payne before / that sū certeyn mete or drynke shall doo hym harme / doth yet of an inportune apetyte fall for his lytell pleasure to hys great payne and hurte. A nother cause ys q I y ^e good­nes of god / whyche how far so euer his people fall from the vse of vertu / shall not yet as hym selfe hath promysed suffer them to fall from the knowlege of vertu / not oonly for the manyfestacyō of hys iustyse y ^t theyre owne cōscyence may condempne them ī doyng y ^e thīgꝭ that them selfe know to be nought / but also to thentent they may styll haue a­monge them a perpetuall occasyon of amēdment. For yf the fayth were onis gone and the churche of cryste fallen in that errour that they beleuyd vyce to be vertu / and Idolatrye to be y ^e ryght way of goddys worshyp / thē had they no rule to gyde thē to better. And therfore whyle we be not ī errour of vnderstandyng & faythe / how so euer we fall or how often so euer we synne / we see the waye to turne agayne by grace to goddꝭ mercy. But if fayth were gone all were gone / and then had god here no church at all.

¶The .xix. chapiter.

¶Thauthor ꝓueth y ^t yf y ^e worshyp of ymagys were ydolatrye than the chyrch byleuyng hyt to be lawfull & plesaunt to god / were in a mysse byleue and in a dedely errour. and thā were the fayth fayled in the chyrche wherof chryste hath promysede the contrary as ys proued in the chapy­ter before.

SUerly syr quod he that god made not hys churche for a whyle but to endure tyll the worldys end / that ys there no chrysten man but he wyll well agree. And sythe hys chyrche can not stande wyth owte fayth whyche ys the entre into chrystē dom. for as saynt poule sayth / accedētē ad deum oportet credere / who so will cum to god must nedys byleue / no mā wyll denye but that fayth ys & allwey shalbe in hys church. And y ^t his church not in fayth only and the knowlege of the truthes necessary to be knowen for oure soule helth / but also to the doyng of good workys & auoydyng of euills / ys / hath ben and euer shalbe specyally gyded and gouernede by god and the secrete inspyracyō of hys holy spiryte. well quod I then yf the chyrche haue fayth yt erreth not in byleue. That ys trouth quod he. It shulde erre quod I yf yt byleuyd not all the truthes that we be bounde to beleue. what elles q he. what & we beleuyd quod I all that ys trew / & ouer y ^• sum other thyng not only false but also dysplesaunt to god / dyd we not then erre in our necessary byleue? wherby meane you that quod he. As thus quod I / yf y ^t one byleuid in all the thre persons of the trynyte / y ^e fader the sō and y ^e holy goste / and ther wyth wer perswaded that ther were a fourth person besyde / equall & one god wyth thē. He muste quod he nedis erre in hys necessary byleue / by whych he is bounden to beleue in the trynite. And [Page xxvi] that felow beleuyth in a quaternyte y ^t ys quod I the hoole trynyte and oone moo. But we be not only not boundē quod he to byleue in any mo / but also bounden not to beleue ī any mo. Uery well quod I. then erreth he as moche & as far lakketh hys ryght beleue that byleuyth to moche as he that byleueth to lytle / and he that byleueth sum thynge y ^t he shuld not / as he y ^t beleuyth not sō thīg y ^t he shuld. what els quod he and what then. Mary thys quod I. yf we byleue that yt were lawfull & well don to pray to sayntys / and to reuerence theyr ymagꝭ / and do honour to theyr relyques and vysyt pylgrymagꝭ / And than where we do these thyngys they were in dede not well dō but were dyspleasaunt to god / and by hym reputed as a mynysshement and a wythdraw­yng of the honour dew to hymselfe / & therfore afore hys mageste reproued & odyous and taken as Idolatrye / were not thys opynyon a dedly pestylent errour in vs & a playn lak of ryght fai [...]h? yes for god q he. But ye graunte q I that the churche can not erre in the ryght fayth necessarye to be byleuyde / whych ys geuen and allwey kept ī the church by god. Truth quod he. Than foloweth it quod I that the churche in that yt byleuyth sayntys to be prayed vnto / relyquys and ymagꝭ to be worshypped / and pylgrymagys to be vy­syted and sought / ys not deceyued nor doth not erre / but that the byleue of y ^e churche ys trewe therin. And therup­pon also folowith that the wonderfull workys done aboue nature at suche y­magys and pylgrymagys at holy relyques by prayours made vnto sayntꝭ / be not done by the deuyll to delude the churche of chryste therwyth / sythe the thyng that the church doth / ys well dō and not Idolatrye. But by the grete honoure dō vnto sayntys god hym se [...]f the more hyghly honored in that hys seruantys haue so moch honour for his sake. And therof foloweth yt that him selfe makyth the myracles in compro­bacyō therof. Also if it be trew that ye haue grauntyd that god kepyth & euer shall kepe in hys churche y ^e ryght fayth & rygh byleue by the helpe of hys owne hande that hath plantyd yt / then can it not be that he shall suffer the deuyll to worke wonders lyke vnto hys owne myracles to brynge hys hole church in to a wronge faythe. And then yf those thyngys be not doon by the deuyll / I trowe ye wyll not then denye but they be doon by god. And so ys yet agayn our purpose double prouyd. Fyrst in y ^• ye graunt that god wyll nat suffer his church to erre ī his ryght faith / secūdly whyche pursueth theruppō by that he hath by many a vysable myracle declared y ^t thys fayth & maner of obseruaūce ys very plesaunte and acceptable vnto hym. whyche myracles sythe they bene prouyd to be don vppon good ground and cause / appere well to be dō by god and not by our gostely enmy.

The .xx. chapiter

¶The messenger alleggythe that y ^e perpetuall beynge and assystence of chryste wyth hys chyrch to kepe yt owte of all damnable errours / ys nothyng ellys but hys being wyth his churche in holy scrypture. wherof the authore declareth the cōtrary.

HOw thynke you quod I ys there any thyng in thys mater amysse. ¶I can not well tell q he what I myght answere there­to. But yet me thynkyth that I come to thys poynte by some ouersyght in grauntyng. ¶well quod I menne say [Page] sumtyme when they wolde say or doo a thyng and cannot well come theron but mysse and ouer se them selfe in the assay / yt makyth no matter they saye ye may begyn agayn and mend yt for it is nother masse nor mattins. And al be yt in thys matter ye haue nothyng graunted but that ys in my mynde as trew as the matein [...] or y ^• masse eyther / yet yf ye reken your selfe ouer swyfte ī graunting / I geue you leue to go bak and call agayn what ye wyll. In good fayth quod he full hard wer it in myne own mynd otherwyse to thynk / but y ^e god shall allway kepe the ryght byleue in hys churche. But yet sythe we come to thys conclusyon by the grauntyng therof / let vs loke onys agayne there­uppon. And what yf m [...] wold saye as I hard onys owne saye my self / y ^e god doth peraduenture not kepe alwaye fayth in hys churche / to gyue thē war­nyng wyth when they doo well & whē the contrary / But syth he hath geuen the [...]m and lefte wyth theym the scryp­ture ī whyche they may suffycyētly see / both what they shuld byleue and what they shuld doo / he letteth theym alone therwyth wythoute any other specyall cure of hys vppon theyre fayth and by lefe. For therein they may see all y ^t thē nedyth if they wyll loke & labour therī. And if they wyll not / y ^e faulte is theyr owne slouth and foly. And who so bee wyllyng to mend and be better / maye alway haue light to se how / by recours to the redyng of holy scrypture / whych shall stande hym ī lyke stede as ye sayd byfore y ^e god kepte the fayth for / by hys specyall menys in hys chyrch. ¶yf this q I were thus / wherof shuld chrystes promyse serue? Ego vobiscū sum ōni­bus diebus vsque ad finem secult. I ā wyth you all the dayes tyll thende of y ^• worlde? wherefore shold he be here w ^t hys churche / yf hys beyng here shulde not kepe his ryght fayth and byleue in hys churche? Mary q he these wordys well agreeth wyth all. for god ys & shal be vntyll the worldes ende wythe hys churche in his holy scripture. As Abraham answerd the ryche man in hell seyeng they haue Moyses and the prophites / not meanyng that they had thē all at that tyme present wyth thē but only y ^t they had theyr boyks. And so chryst for asmoche as the scrypture hath hys fayth comprehendyd therin according to his own wordes / Scrutamini scripturas / quia scripture sunt qtestimoni­um perhibent de me / Serche you the scryptures for they bere witnes of me. therfore he sayd / Ego vobiscum sum vsque ad finem seculi / I am wyth you to thend of the world / because his holy scrypture shall neuer fayle as long as the worlde endureth. Heuyn and yerth sayth he shall passe away but my wor­des shall neuer passe away. And ther­fore ī his holy wrytīg is he w ^t vs styll / and therī he kepyth and techeth vs his ryght fayth yf we lyste to loke for yt / & ellys as I sayde our owne fawte and foly yt ys. ¶yf god quod I be none o­therwyse wyth vs but ī holy scripture / then be those wordys of chryste / I am wythe you to y ^• worldes ende / sūwhat straungely spoken / and vnlyke y ^e wordes of Abraham whereunto ye resem­ble thē. For chryst left neuer a boke behynde hym of hys owne makynge as Moyses did and the profytis. And in theyr bokys was he spokī of as he was in the gospell. wherfore if he had spokē and ment of scrypture / he wold haue sayd that they shuld haue wyth them styll hys euangelystes and wryters of his gospels as Abrahā sayd they haue [Page xxvii] moyses and the prophetis / whych were the writers of the bok [...]s that the ie [...]es had. Chryst also sayd / I am wyth you tyll thend of the worlde / not I shalbe / but am. whyche ys the word apꝓp [...]yed to hys godhed. And therfor that word am / is y ^e name by whych our lord [...]d [...]s he tolde Moyses / be named vnto pharao / as a name whyche from all cretures (syth they be all subget to tyme) clerly dyscernyth hys godhed / whyche ys euer beyng and present wythowte dyfference of tyme paste or to come. In whych wyse he was not in his holy scrypture / for y ^t had begynnyng. And at those wordys spoken / was not yet all wryten. For of the chefe part which ys the new testament / ther was yet at that time neuer on word wreten. And also we be not sure bi any ꝓmis made that the scrypture shall enoure to the worldes ende / albeit I thynk verely y ^e substaunce shall. But yet as I saye / ꝓmise haue we none thereof. For where our lorde sayth y ^t hys wordes shall not passe away / nor one [...]ote therof be lost / he spake of his promyses made in de [...]e as hys faythe and doctryne taught by mouth and inspyracion / Not that the wrytyng shuld neuer be lost / o [...] whyth sum partyes be all redy loste / more per aduenture then we can tell of. And of that we haue / the bokys in sum part [...] corrupted wyth mysse wrytynge. And yet the substance of those wordys that he ment ben knowen / wher sum parte of the wrytyng ys vnknown. He sayth also that hys father and he shulde send the holye goste / and also that he w [...]lde cō hym selfe. wherto all thys yf he mēt no more but to leue the bokys b [...]hynd them and go theyre way? Chryste is al so present am [...]ng vs bodyly ī the holy sacramente / And ys he there presente wyth vs for nothyng? The holy goste taught many thyngꝭ / I thynk vnwryten / and wherof sum parte was neuer comprysyd ī y ^e scrypture yet vnto thys daye / as the artycle whyche no goode chrysten man wyll doute [...]f / that oure blessyd lady was a perp [...]tuall vyrgyn aswell after the byrthe of chryste as a­fore. Owre sauiour [...]lso s [...]y [...] vnto his Apposteles / that whē they shuld be accused and brought in Iugement / they shuld not nede to care for answere / yt shulde euen thē he put ī ther myndes. And that he mente not only the remē ­braunce of holy scripture / which before the paynym iugꝭ were but a colde and bare allegyng / but suche wordes newe geuen them by god inspyred in theyre hertꝭ so effectuall / and cōfermid wyth myracles / y ^t theyr aduersaries though they were angry therat / yet shuld not bee able to resyste yt. And thus wythe secret helpe and inspiracion ys chryste wyth hys churche / and wylbe to y ^e worldes ende present and assystent. Not ō ­ly spoken of in wrytyng.

¶The .xxi. chapyter

¶The author sheweth that yf yt so were in dede as the messenger sayd / that is to wytt that chryste cōtynu­ed wyth hys chyrch none other wise but only by the leuynge of hys holye scrypture to theym / and that all the fayth also were ōly therin / thā shuld it yet folow that as far as y ^e necessyte of our saluacyon requyreth / god geueth the chyrch y ^e ryght vnde [...]stā dyng therof. And theruppon foloweth [...]arther that the chyrche can not err in the tyght fayth. whereuppon is inferred e [...]te sone / all y ^t the messē ger wold haue fled fro byfore. And ther [...]n also specially followeth / that [...]ll th [...] tex [...]ꝭ of holy scripture whych [Page] herytyques alledge agaynst ymagꝭ or eny poynt of the comen byleue of Chrystys catholique church / can no thyng serue theyre purpose.

BUt now wold I wytte / syth ye reken hym none other wyse present thē in holy scrypture / whether thē doth he gyue hys churche the ryght vnderstandyng of holy scrypture or not? ¶what yf he do not quod he. ¶Mary quod I then your selfe seeth well / that they were as well wythowte. And so shulde the scrypture stand them in as goode stede / as a payre of spectacles shulde stande a blynde freer. ¶That ys very truthe quod he. But therefore hath hys wysdom and goodnes prouyded yt so to be wreten / that yt may be well vnderstāden by the collacyō and consyderacyon of one texte wyth a nothere. ¶May yt not also be q I that sum of them whych do rede it dilygently / and dylygently compare and consyder euery texte how yt may stand with othe [...] may yet for all that mistake and mysunderstande yt? ¶yes quod he yt may be so. For elles had there not ben so many herytykes as ther hathe ben. ¶Uery truthe quod I. But now yf all the fayth be in holy scrypture / and no parte therof any where elles / but that yt must be therin all to gether lernyd / were yt then suffycyent to vnderstand sum parte aryght and sum other parte wronge in the necessary poyntꝭ of our fayth / or must we as farforth as cōcer­nith y ^e necessyte therof mysunderstand no parte? ¶we must q he mystake no parte as farre as necessaryly cōcernith our faythe. But we muste haue so the ryght vnderstanding of all to gether / that we conceyue no damnable errour ¶well sayd quod I. Then yf we must we maye. For yf we may not we muste not. For our lord byndyth no mā to ā īpossybylyte. we way q he. If we may q I / thē may we ether by good hap fall in the ryght vnderstandyng / or els by naturall reson cū to it / or els by suꝑnaturall grace be ledd into it. ¶That is tr [...]th q he nedꝭ must it be one of these way [...]. well q I we wyll not yet ēserch whych. But I wold furst wyt whether Cryst haue a chyrch in the world cōty­nually / & so shall haue to y ^e worldꝭ ēd / or els hath one sumtyme & sūtyme nōe at all. As we might thynk y ^t he had on [...] whyle he was here hym self & ꝑaduen­ture a whyle after / & hapely none at all neuer sythȳs / nor shall not agayne we wot nere when. Nay q he y ^t can not be in no wyse / but y ^t he muste nedys haue hys church cōtynew styll sū where. for els how coud he be w ^t them cōtynually to y ^e worldys end in scrypture or other wyse / yf they w ^t whō he promisyd to b [...] & contynew to the worldys end / shulde not contynually so longe endure? Or how could those wordꝭ of cryst be trew Lo I am w ^t you all y ^e days to the worldys end / yf before y ^e worldꝭ end he wer away sum days / as he wer in dede fro y ^e church sum days / if in sū days he had no church. well quod I yet wold I wit one thyng more. Can he haue a church w ^tout faythe. Nay quod he that were ī possyble. Forsoth quod I so were it. for hys church is a congregacyō of people gatheryd into hys fayth And fayth is the furst substācyall dyfference dyscer­nyng crysten men from hethen / as reason is the diff [...]rence deuydyng mā frō all the kyndys of brute be [...]ys. Now then if hys churche be and euer shalbe contynuall wythoute any tymes be­twene / in whyche there shall be none / and wythoute fayth yt may neuer bee / and no parte of the fayth is as ye saye [Page xxviii] ellys where had but in holy scrypture and all yt must be had / and also as we were agreyd a [...]ytyll whyle afore / there must be non errour adioynid therto / & therfore as far as toucheth the necessy­te of feyth no part of scrypture may be misse taken / but all must be vnderstanden ryght / and may be ryght vnderstā den eyther by happe reason our helpe of grace / yt necessaryly folowethe that by one or other of these ways / y ^e chyrch of Cryste hath alway & neuer faylethe the ryght vnderstādyng of scrypture / as fare as longethe for oure necessyte. ¶That foloweth in dede q he. ¶well quod I / let passe for the whyle. what foloueth further? And [...]yth the church so hath / let vs fyrste aggree by whyche of these .iii. wayes the church hath it. why there by happe / reason / or grace. ¶By happe quod he were a poore hauyng. For so myghte yt hap to haue and hap to fayle. ¶Then quod I sythe yt hathe yt euer / it can not be by hap. what thī [...] you then of reasone? ¶As lytell quod he as any man thynkethe. For I take that for playne enmye to faythe. ¶ye take paraduēture wrong quod I. But thereof shall we se further aftere. But now syth ye so thynk / ye leue but the thirde way / whych is the help of grace. ¶No surly quod he. ¶Ueryly quod I where reson may betwene dyuers textys stand in greate doute whych way to lene / I thynk that god wyth hys holy spyryt ledeth hys church into the cō sent of the trouthe / As hym selfe sayd / that the holy goste whō he wold send / shulde lede theym ī to all trouth. And thus by the helpe off hys grace as yee graūt / y ^e ryght vnderstandīg of scryp­ture is euer preserued ī hys church frō all suche mystakyng / wherof myght folow any damnable errour concernyng the fayth. And therof doth ther fyrst folow / that besyde the scrypture self ther is an other present assystence & speciall cure of god / perpetuall with his church to kepe yt ī the right fayth / that it erre not by mysse vnderstandynge of holy scrypture / contrary to thoppyniō that ye purposyd / when ye sayde y ^t Chrys­tys beyng wyth hys churche was only the leuyng of hys holy scrypture to vs. And ouer thys yf god were no nother wyse present then ye speke of / yet syth yt ys proued that hys church for all y ^t / euer hath the ryght vnderstandyng of scrypture / we be cōmen to y ^• same poīt agayne that ye wold so fayne flyt frō. For yf the scrypture and nothyng but y ^e scrypture doth contayn all thīg y ^t we be bounden to byleue and to do and to forbere / and y ^t god also therfore prouydeth for hys church the ryght vnde [...] standyng therof / cōcernyng euery thīg necessary for vs that is cōteynid ī scripture / thē must there nedes folow ther­uppon the thyng y ^t ye feryd / lest ye had wronge and vnaduysydly grauntyd / that ys to wyt / that god alway kepyth the ryght fayth in his church. And theruppō foloweth further the remanant of all that ys in questyon bytwene vs / that the faythe of the chyrche in y ^e wor­shyp that yt beleuyth to be well geuyn vnto sayntys / relyques and ymagys / ys not erronyous but ryght. And ther uppon foloweth also that the myracles done at such places ben none illusyōs of dampned sprytys / but the myghtye hande of god / to shew hys pleasure in the corroboracyon thereof / and in the excytacyon of oure deu [...]cyon therto. ¶In dede quod he we be cū bakk here wyth goyng forwarde / as men walke in a mase. ¶ye haue not yet quod I lost all that labour. For thogh ye haue [Page] half a chek in thys poynte / yet haue ye yf ye perceyue yt matyd me in a nother poynte / by one thyng that ys aggreed bytwene vs now. ¶what is that quod he / ¶Thys quod I y ^t I haue aggreed aswell as you that god hath geuyn his churche the ryght vnderstandynge of scrypture in as farforthe as longeth to the necessyte of saluacyon. ¶In what poynte quod he hath that matyd you? ¶why quod I se you not y ^t? Nay then wyll I not tell you but yf ye hyre me / or yf I tell you yet shall ye not wynne the game therby. For syth ye se yt not your selfe / yt ys but a blynde mate. ¶Lett me knowe yt yet quod he / and I am aggreyd to take none aduaun­tage therof. ¶On that bargeyn be yt quod I. ¶ye wote well quod I that ageynst the worshyppyng of ymagys & prayng to sayntys / ye layd certeyn textys of scrypture to proue it forboden & reputed of god for y [...]olatrye. For an­swer wherof when I leyd the sentence that the churche and holy doctors / ther of gyue to those textys / ye sayed they were but mennys false gloses agaynst goddes trew textys. And now syth ye graunt and I also that the churche can not mysunderstand the scrypture to y ^e hynderaunce of y ^e ryght fayth ī thyngꝭ of necessite / and that ye also knowlege thys matter to be suche / that yt muste eyther be the ryght bileue and acceptable seruyce to god / or ellys a wronge and erronyous oppynyon and playne ydolatry / yt foloweth of necessyte that the churche doth not mys vnderstan [...]e those textys that ye or any other can allege and bryng forth for that purpose / But that all these textys be so to be taken and vnderstandē / as they nothing make agaynst y ^e church / but all against your own oppynyō ī thys mater. And this haue ye sodenly answerd your self to all those textys owt of hand / wyth a glose of your own as trew as any text in the byble / and whyche all the worlde wyll neuer aduoyde excepte they wold make the scrypture serue the church of naught / or rather to theyr hīderaunce then fortheraunce in the faythe. Fo [...] [...] were yt yf yt myght be / y ^t god geueth them not the good vnderstādyng therof / but suffreth thē to be deceyuyd and deluded in errors / by the misse takyng of the letter. ¶Mary quod he thys is a blynde mate in dede. ¶Suerly quod I these .ii. thyngys seme to me two as trewe poyntys & as playne to a chrystē man as any petycyon of Euclidis geometry ys to a reasonable man. For as trewe as yt ys that euery hole thynge ys more then hys owne halfe / as trew is yt in dede / and to euery chrystē man fayth makyth yt as certeyne / Fyrst y ^e Chrystys churche can not erre in any such artycle as god vppō payn of losse of heuyne wyll that wee byleue. And thereuppon necessaryly folowyth / that there is no texte of scrypture well vn­derstanden / by whyche crystyn people arn cōmaūdyd to do the thyng whych the church beleuyth y ^t they may lefully leue vndone / nor any text wherby we be forbodē any thyng / whych y ^e church beleueth that they may laufully do.

The .xxii. chapyter

¶Bycause the messenger had in y ^• bygynnynge shewed hym selfe de­syrouse and gredy vppon the texte of scrypture wythe lytle force of the old fathers glosys / & wyth dysprays of phylosophy and almost all y ^• .vii. lyberall scyences / y ^e author therfore incydētly sheweth what harm hath happed sumtyme fall to dyuerse of those yong mē whō he hath known [Page xxix] to geue theyr study to the scrypture onely / wythe contempte of Logyke and other seculer science / and lytyll regarde of the olde interpretours. wherefore the authore sheweth that in the studye of scrypture / the sure way is wyth vertewe and prayour / furste to vse the iuggement of na­turall reason / wherunto seculer lyt­terature helpyth mych / And secōdly the cōmentꝭ of holy doctours / And thyrdly aboue all thyng the artycles of the catholyque faythe receyuyde and beeleuyd thorow the chyrch of Cryste.

ANd for because wee speke oft scrypture now / & y ^t the churche in thyngys nedely requysyte to salua­cyon hathe the ryghte vnderstandyng of holy scrypture / wherein I parceyue ye be studyouse of the text alone wythout great force of the old fathers inte [...] pretaciōs or eny other scyēce / of whych ye reken all.vii.saue gramer almost to sarue for noght / I haue of you so good oppynyon / that I trust all your study shall torne you to good. But suerly I haue sene to sum folk so mych harm to grow therof / that I neuer wold aduise any man els in the studye of scrypture to take that way. ¶why so quod he. ¶For I haue known q I ryght good wyttys that hath set all other lernynge asyde / partely for slouth refusynge the labour and payne to be susteynyd in y ^t lernynge / partely for pryde by whyche they coud not endure the redargucyon that shuld sometime fall to theyr parte in dyspycyons. whych affeccions theyr inward secret fauoure toward thē sel­fys coueryd and cloked vnder the pre­text of symplycyte / & good crystē deuocyon borne to y ^e loue of holy scrypture alone. But in lytell whyle after y ^e dāp­nable spyryte of pryde y ^e vnware to thē self lurked in theyr hartes / hath begon to put oute hys hornys and shew hymself. For then haue they longed vnder the prayse of holy scrypture to set oute to the shewe theyr owne study. whyche because they wolde haue [...] the more to be set bye / they haue furste fallen to the dysprays and derysion of all other dyscyply [...]es. And because in spekynge or prechyng of such commune thyngis as all crystē men know / they coud not seme excellente / nor make it appere ād seme y ^t in theyr study they had don any gret mastry / to shew themself [...]therfore maruelouse / they set out paradoxis ād straung oppynions agaynste the comē fayth of Crystys hole chyrche. And be­cause they haue therin the old holy doctours agaynst them / they fall to the cō tempte and dysprayse of them / eyther preferrynge the [...]re owne fonde gloses agaynste the olde cunnynge and bles­syd fathers interpretacyōs / or els lene to some wordes of holy scrypture that seme to say for them / against many motextis that playnly make agaynst thē / wythout receyuyng or ere gyuyng to any reasone or authoryte of any man quykke or dede / or of the hole chyrch of Cryste to the contrary. And thus onys proudely parswaded a wronge waye / theye take the brydell in the teeth and renne forthe lyke a hed stronge horse / that all the worlde cannot pluk theym bakke. But wyth sowynge sedycyon / settyng forth of errours and heresyes / and spycyng theyre prechyng wyth re­bukynge of preesthod and prelacye for the peoples pleasure / they turne many a man to ruyne and theym selfe also. And [...]hen the dyuell dysseyuyth them in theyre blynde affeccyons. ¶They [Page] take for good zele to the people theyre malycyous enuy / And for a great ver­tew theyre ardente appetyte to preche / wherin they haue so gret pryde for the peoples prayse / that prech I wene they wold thogh god wold hys own mouth cōmaund thē the cōtrary. ¶why shuld ye wene so quod he / or whereby can ye be sure that ye do not now mysconster theyr good mynde? hard is it oftymys to iuge an other mannys dede y ^t hathe sum apparēce of yuell / because the purpose and entente may make it good. And whatt parell is it then where the dede apperyth good / there to iuge the mynde and entent for nought / whych who can se but god? As the scrypture saythe / Dominus autem intuetur cor. Onely god beholdyth the harte. And therfore sayth our sauyouriuge not before the time. ¶I iuge not quod I but vppon opē thingꝭ and well apparant. For I speke but of those whose erronyous oppynyons in theyr prechyng / ād theyr obstynate pryde in the defence of theyr worldely worshyp well declaryth theyre myndys. And sum haue I sene whych when they haue for theyr pary­lous prechynge bene by theyr prelatys prohybytyd to preche / haue that not w ^t standyng proceded on styll. And for y ^e mayntenaunce of theyr dysobedience / haue amendyd the mater wyth ā here­sy / boldly and stubburnly defendyng / that syth they had connynge to preche / theye were by god bounden to preche / And that no man nor no law that was made or coud be made / had any authoryte to forbede theym. And thys they thought suffycyencly ꝓuyd by the wordꝭ of thappostell / Oportet magis obe­dire deo quam hominibus. As though these mē were appostels now specyally sent by god to preche heresies and sow sedycyon amonge crysten men / as the very appostels were in dede sente and cōmaundyd by god / to preche his very fayth to the iewes. One of thys sort of thys new kynde of prechers beinge demaundyd why y ^t he vsyd to say in hys sermons about / that now a days men prechyd not well the gospell / answered that he thought so because he saw not the prechers parsecutyd / nor no stryfe nor bysynes aryse vppō theyr prechīg. whych thyngys he sayd ād wrote was the frute of the gospell / because Cryste sayd / Non vem pacem mittere sed gladium. I am not come to send peace in to the worlde but the sword. was not thys a worshypfull vnderstandynge / y ^t because Cryste wolde make a deuision among infidels / from the remanaunt of them to wynne some / therfore these appostels wolde sow some cocle of dyssension among y ^e cristen people / where by Chyste might lese som of them? For the frute of strife amonge the herers & parsecuciō of the precher cannot lightly grow among crysten menne / but by the prechinge of some straunge newel­ties / and bringynge vp of some new fā gell heresies to the infecciō of our olde faythe. ¶One wyst I that was for hys partinacie in that oppyniō / y ^t he wold and might and was boūden to preche any prohibicyon not wythstandynge / when he was aftere dyuers bolde and open defēce thereof at laste before folk honorable & fewe / reasoned withall / & not onely the lawe shewed hym to the contrary of hys oppynion / whych law was made at a generall coūcell / but also by playne authoryte of holye scryp­ture prouyd that hys oppinion was erronyous / he so parceyued hym selfe satysfyed y ^t he mekely knolegyd hys er­rour / & offryd to abiure it & to submyt [Page xxx] hymself to penaunce. But on the mo­row when he cam forth in open presēce of the peple / and there saw many that had oft hard hym preche / of hys secrete pryde he fell in such an open passion of shame / that those shulde heere hym go bak wyth hys worde whych had before had hys sermons in grete estymacyō / that at the fyrst syghte of the people he reuokyd hys reuocacion and sayd out alowd that he myghte well be harde / y ^t hys oppynyon was trewe / and that he was y ^t day beefore deceyuyd in that he had confessyd yt for false. And thus he held hys own stubburnly wythout reason tyll the bookys were shewyd hym agayn / and him self red them before all the people / so that he parceyuyd the audyence that stode about hym to feele & vnderstand hys proude foly in the de­fence of hys indefensyble erroure. And theruppon at the last yelded hym selfe agayne. Suche secret pryde had oure gostely enemy conueyd in to the harte of hym / whych I ensure you semyd in all hys other outward maner as meke a symple soule as a manne shuld haue sene in a somers day. And some of thē let not wyth lyes and pariury to defēd them self / and some to stande in defēce of theyre errours or false denyenge of theyr owne dede / to theyr great parell of the fyre / yf theyre iudges were nott more marcyfull then theyre malyce de­seruyth. And all thys do [...]ne because (as them selfe doth at last cōfesse) they thynke yf theye abiure / theye shall not after be suffred to preche agayn. Such a scabbyd ych of vayn glory catch they in theyr prechynge / that though all the world were the worse for yt and theyre own lyfe lye theron / yet wold they lōg to be pulpetyd. And thys I saye hathe comen of sū that haue wyth contempt of all other lernyng geuen thē to scrypture alone. whose affeccyons of pryde and slouth hath not in the begynnyng bene parceyuid to them selfe / but haue accomptyd theyr vycys for deuocyon. ¶wold ye then quod he condempne y ^• maner of study by whych a man hathe so gret affeccyon to y ^e scripture alone / that he for the delyte therof felyth lytle sauoure in any thyng [...]ls / but that we shuld lese tyme in phylosophy the mo­ther of heresyes & let scrypture alone? ¶Naye quod I that mynde am I not of. There was neuer thyng wryten in thys worlde that canne in any wyse be cōparable wyth any parte of holy scripture. And yet I thynke other lyberall scyence a gyfte of god also / and not to be cast away / but worthy to wayte ād as handemaydys to gyue attendaūce vppon diuinite. And of diuinyte rek [...] ̄ I the best parte to be cōteynyd in holy scripture. And thys I say for him that shall haue time thereto / and frō youth entendeth to the churche ward / and to make him self wyth goddys help met [...] for thoffyce of a precher. How beyt if [...] ny man eyther happē to begyn so late / y ^t he shall paraduentu [...]e haue no tyme therto / or els any mā of youth to haue that feruent appetyte vnto scrypture y ^t he cannot fynd in his hart to rede any thyng els (whych affeccion who so ha­peth to haue gyuen him / is very fortu­nate if he w ^t grace and meekenes gyde it well) then wolde I councell him spe­cyally to study for the vertuouse fra­myng of hys owne affeccyons / and v­synge greate moderacyon and tempe­raunce in the prechynge to other men. And in all thynge to flee the desyre of prayse and shew of cōnyng / euer mys­trustyng hys owne inclynacyons / and lyue in drede and feare of the dyuyllis [Page] subtell sleyghte & inuencions. who tho­ugh he lye in contynuall awayt vppon euery prechour to cach hym into pryde yf he can / yet hys hyest enterpryse and proudyst tryumph standyth in y ^e bryn­gyng of a mā to the most abuse of that thynge / y ^t ys of hys own nature y ^e best. And therfore gret labour makyth he & grete bost / if he bryng it aboute / that a good wyt may abuse hys labour bestowed vppō the [...]udy of holy scrypture. ¶For the sure auoydyng wherof / my poor aduyce were in y ^e study therof / to haue a specyall regard to the wrytingꝭ & cōmentys of olde holy fathers. And yet or he fall in hand wyth the tone or the tother next grace & helpe of god to be gotē w ^t abstynēs & prayour & clēnes of lyuīg / afore all thing were it necessary to come well & surely enstructyd in all such poyntys & artycles as y ^e church beleuyth. whych thyngys onys fyrmly had ād fastely for vndowtyd trouthes presupposyd / then shall reson & they be two good rulys to examyne & expown [...]ll doutfull textis by / syth y ^e reder shall be sure that no texte ys so to be vnder­ [...]andē as it standeth agaynst thē both or agaynst any poynt of the catholyke [...]ayth of Crystys church. And therfore yf yt seme to stand agaynst any of thē / [...]yther shall the lyght of naturall reasō wyth the collacyō of other textys / help to fynde out the truth / or els (whych is y ^e surest way) he shall ꝑceyue y ^e trouthe in y ^e cōmētys of the good holy doctors of old / to whō god hath gyuen y ^e grace of vnderstandynge. Or fynally if all y ^t he can ether fynde in other mēny [...] workys / or inuent by goddys ayde of hys owne study / can not suffyce to satysfy / but y ^t any text yet seme vnto hym con­trary to any poynt of y ^e churchys fayth & belefe / let hym then as saynt Augus­tyne sayth / make hym selfe very sure y ^t there is some [...]aut eyther in the trāsla­tour / or in the wryter / or now a days ī y ^e prynter / or fynally that for some one lett or othe [...] he vnderstandeth yt not a ryght. And so let hym reuerētly knowlege hys ignoraunce / lene & cleue to y ^e fayth of the chyrch as to an vndoutyd trothe / leuing y ^e text to be beter parceyuyd whan it shall please our lord wyth his lyght to reuele & disclose it. And in thys wyse shall he take for a sure way / by whyche he shalbe sure of one of two thyngys / that ys to wyt eyther to par­ceyue & vnderstād the scrypture right / or els at the lest wise neuer in such wise to take it wrong / that euer may turne hys soule to parell.

The .xxiii. chapyter

¶The messenger obiectyth agaynst the councell of the author / in that he wold y ^t the studēt of scrypture shuld lene to the cōmentours & vnto naturall reson / whych he callyth enmy to fayth. And theruppon thanswere of thauthor to those obiectyons / specyally prouyng y ^• reason is seruant to fayth & not enmy / & must with fayth & interpretacyon of scrypture nedys be concurraunt.

SIr quod he I wyll not say naye but thys way will do well. Howbeyt I fere me y ^t we were lykly to byld vp many errors / if we square our tymber & stonys by these .iii. rulys / mēnys glosys / reason / and fayth not that we fynde in scrypture / but that we brynge wyth vs to scrypture. For furste as for the cōmentours that y [...] speke of / ether theyr commentys tell vs the same tale that the texte doth / or els a nother. If they tell me the same / I beleeue theym onely because the texte sayth the same. [Page xxxi] & yf they tell me a nother / than beleue I them not at all nor nought I shulde / except I shuld beleue men better than god. And for as for reson / what greter enmy can ye fynde to fayth thā reason is / whych counterpledyth fayth in euery poynt. And wolde ye then send thē twayn forth to scole to gether that can neuer agree to gether / but bee redy to fyght to gether & eyther scratch out o­thers eyes by the waye? It semyth also sumwhat strange / that when god hath left vs in hys holy scrypture well and suffycyently hys doctryne / wherby he wold we shuld h [...]ue warnīg of all such thyng as he wold we shuld beleue and go or leue vndone / and hath left vs the scrypture for none other cause but for y ^t yt shuld stād vnto vs for the wytnes of hys wyll declared vs by wrytyng / y ^t we shuld not say nay but we wer war­ned / & nōe other cause why y ^e scrypture shuld be gyuē vs but to tell vs hys plesure & styr vs to fulfull it / we shal now not shape our fayth after y ^e scrypture / but furst frame vs a f [...]yth our selfe / ād thē shape the scrypture of god therby / and make yt agree therto. Thys wer ī dede a good easy waye for a slouthfull mason that wer an euyll work man to make him a squyer and a ruler of lede / that when he lyste not to take y ^e lobour to he we the stone to the squyer he may bende the squyer to the stone / and soo shall he yet brynge them to geder at y ^e leste wayes. ¶As for the olde cōmen­tours quod I they tell you y ^e same tale that the texte doth / but they tell yt you more playne as we shall more talke of after. But surly ye begyld me now in that ye set reason so shorte. for veryly I wold neuer haue went that ye wold in scrypture lyke worse a wyse mā thē an vnresonable reder. Nor I cā not se why ye shuld reken reasō for an enemy to faythe / excepte ye reken euery man for your enemye that is youre better & hurteth you not. Thus wer ōe of your .v. wytys enemy to a nother. And our feling shuld abhorre our sight / because we may se further by .iiii. myle thē we may fele. How can reasō (but yf reason be vnresonable) haue more dysdayne to here y ^e trouth of eny poynt of fayth / then to se the profe of many thyngꝭ naturall / wherof reasō cā no more attayn to the cause / then it can in the Artycle of the fayth. But styll for eny power y ^e reason hath to perceyue the cause / she shall iuge it impossible after she proue it trew / but if she byleue her eye better then her wytt. ¶when ye se y ^e adamant stone drawe iren to it / it greueth not reason to loke theron / but reason hath a pleasure to beholde the thing that pas­seth her power to perceyue. For it is as playne agaynst the rule of reason that an heuy body shulde moue alone any other mocyon then dounward / or that any bodely thyng shuld drawe a nother wythoute touchyng / as ys any artycle of the fayth. Nor neuer was there yet cause by reason assigned that mē may perseyue for probable / but only that it ys a secret properte of the stone / which is as moch to say as I wot nere what. And yet as I saye reason can byleue [...] y ^t thing well ynoughe / and be not angry therwyth nor stryue agaynste yt. And yet all the rulys y ^t euer she lernyd tell her styll that it may not be / [...] ye quod he but a mannys own eyen tell hym y ^t yt may be. & that must nedys contente hym. ¶May a man then better truste hys eyes quod I thē hys wyt? ¶ye ma­ry q he / what may he better trust then his eyē? ¶Hys eyen may q I be deceyuyd & wene they se y ^t they se not if resō [Page] gyue ouer hys holde / excepte ye thynk the iugler blow hys gallys through the goblettys bottom / or cut your gerdell afore your face in .xx. pecys and make it hole agayn / and put a knyfe into his eye and se neuer the worse / And turne a plum into a doggꝭ tord into a boyes mouth. ¶Now happenyd yt madly y ^t euyn wyth thys worde cam one of my folke and askede whethere they shulde make redy for dyner. ¶Abyde quod I let vs haue better meate furste. And therwyth your frende and I began to laugh. ¶well quod I make none haste yet for a lytle whyle. And so wente hee hys waye halfe owte of countenaunce / wenyng that he had done or sayd sum what lyke a fole / as he was one y ^t was not very wyse in dede and wont soo to doo. And then sayd I to your frende. Now ye se that reason ys not so proud a dame as ye take her for. She seeth done in dede by nature that she cānot perseyue how / and ys well contentyde therewyth. She seeth a fonde felowe deceyue her syght and her wytt therw ^t / and takyth yt well and meryly and ys not angry y ^t y ^e iougeler wyll not teche euery man hys craft. And wene ye thē that she wyll take yt so hyely that god hym self her master and maker shulde do what hym lyst / & than tell her what & tell her not how? I pray you quod I that oure lord was borne of a vyrgyn how know you? ¶Mary q he by scrypture. ¶How know you quod I that ye shuld beleue y ^e scripture? ¶Mary q he by fayth. ¶ why q I what doth faythe tell you therin? ¶Faith quod he tellith mee that holy scrypture ys thyngys of trouth wryten by the secret techyng of god. ¶And wherby know you quod I that ye shuld beleue god? ¶wherby q he? thys ys a strange questyon. Euery m [...]n q he may well wete that. ¶That is troth quod I. But is there any hors or any asse that wottyth that? ¶None quod he that I wot of / but yf Dalams asse any thyng vnderstode therof. For he spake lyke a good reasonable asse. ¶If no br [...]te best can wytt that quod I / & euery man may / what is the cause why that man may & other bestys may not? ¶Mary quod he for mā hath resō & al they haue none. ¶A well thē quod I reason must he nedys haue then that shall parceyue what he shulde beleue. And so must reson not resy [...] fayth but walk wyth her / & as her handmayd so wayt vppō her / that as contrary as ye take her / yet of a trouth fayth goth ne­uer wythout her. But lykewyse as if a mayd be suffred to ronne on the brydle or be cup shoten or wax to proude / she wyll then wax copious and chop logyk wyth her mastres / & fare sometyme as she were frātyk / so if reason be suffred to ren out at ryot & wax ouer hye har­tyd & proude / she wyll not fayle to fall in rebellyō toward her mastres fayth. But on y ^e other syde if she be well bro­ught vp & well gydyd and kept ī good temper / she shall neuer disobey faythe beyng in her right mīde. And therfore let resō be well gyded / for surely fayth goth neuer wythout her.

¶Now in the study of scrypture / ī de­uysyng vppon the sentence / in consy­deryng what ye rede / in ponderyng y ^e purpose of dyuers cōmentys / in cōpa­ryng to gether dyuers textꝭ that seme cōtrary and be not / albeyt I deny not but that grace & goddys especyall help ys the grete thyng theryn / yet vsyth he for an instrument mannys reson ther­to. God helpyth vs to ete also / but yet not wythout our mouth. Now as the hand ys the more nymble by the vse of [Page xxxii] sum featys / & the leggys and fete more swyft and sure by the custum of going and rennyng / & the hole body the more wyeldy & lusty by some kynde of excercyse / so ys yt no doute but that reason ys by study / labour & excercyse of Lo­gyk / Phylosophy & other lyberall artꝭ corroborate and quykkenyd / and the iugemēt both in them and also in ora­tours / laws & storys mych rypyd. And albeyt poettys ben wyth many men taken but for payntyd wordys / yett doo they moch help the iugement & make a mā amōg other thīgis well furnyshed of one specyall thyng / w ^tout whych all lernyng ys half lame. ¶what is that q he? ¶Mary q I a good mother wytt. And therfore ar ī myne oppynyō these Lutheranys in a mad mynde / y ^t wold now haue all lernynge saue scrypture onely clene cast aw [...]y. whych thyngys (yf the tyme wyll serue) be as me thynketh to be taken and had / & with reson brought as I sayd before into the ser­uyce of dyuynyte. And as holy seynte Iherom sayth / The Ebrues welle dys­poyle the Egipcyens / when crystys lernyd men take out of the pagame wry­ters the ryches and lerning & wysdom that god gaue vnto them / & employe y ^e same in the seruyse of diuynyte about the profyte of goddys chosyn chyldern of Israel the chyrch of Cryst / whych he hath of the harde stony paynims made the chylderne of Abraham.

The .xxiiii. chapyter

¶The messenger make the obieccy­ons agaynste the author / in that he counceyled the student of scrypture to brynge thartycles of our faythe wyth hym for a specyall rule to conster the scrypture by. And y ^e author confyrmythe hys counsayle geuen in that byhalfe / declarynge y ^t wyth out that rule / men may sone fall in to greate errours in y ^e study of holy scrypture.

wyth this your frende held as he sayd hym selfe somewhat cōtet that reasō was not so greate an enmy to fayth as she semyd. But yet he thought that he shuld haue nede rather to be well brydelyd / thā to bere much rule in y ^e interpretacyon of scrypture. But as for y ^e tother poynt y ^t we shulde nedys bryng the fayth wyth vs all redy / as a rule to lerne the scryp­ture by / whē we come to the scrypture to lerne the faythe by / that he thought in no wyse conuenyent / but a thyng he sayd which like as if we wold go make the cart to draw the horse. ¶well quod I wee shall see anon whether the carte drawe the horse or the horse the carte. Or whether we be yet hapely so blinde that we se not well whic [...] is the carte. which is the horse. ¶Firste quod I tell me how olde wolde ye y ^e one were ere he come to y ^e study of scripture. ¶By my faythe he. I wolde haue a chrysten mannys child begyn therin very yōg / and therin contynew all his lyfe. ¶In good fayth quod I y ^t lyke I not amys / so that ye doo not mene that ye wolde haue him all his life lerne nothing els: And yet that could I suffer to & allow ryghte well in some. But yet if he did neuer in his life lerne oughte els / how olde think ye that he shuld be or he ler­ned the articles of his belefe in y ^e bible? ¶I can nott redely tell quod he / for I haue not sene it assayed. ¶well quod I sith we be not sure how long it wolde be in lernynge there / were it not beste then y ^t for y ^e whyle he were tought hys crede before in his own mother tong? ¶I demē not y ^• q he / y ^t he shuld conne hys crede byfore / because euery chrystē [Page] mannys chylde by the law shuld know hys fayth as sone as he coud / but I say he shuld not therwith take vppon hym to iudge and examyne holy scrypture therby. ¶well quod I let thys crysten chylde of ours alone for a whyle. And let vs cōsyder yf there were a good old ydolater that neuer had hard in all his lyfe any thyng of our belefe or of other god thē only the man in y ^• mone / whō he had watched ād worshypped euery frosty night. If thys mā myght sodēly haue y ^• hole byble turned into his own tong & rede yt ouer / thynke ye that he shuld therby lerne all the artycles of y ^• fayth? ¶I thynk quod he y ^• he myght. ¶Thīk ye so q I? I put case y ^t he bele­uyd y ^t all y ^• boke were lyes? ¶Mary q he that may he by y ^• book hym self lern y ^e cōtrary. For the boke in tellyng hys tale affyrmyth hys tale & techyth yt to be trew. ¶ye say very trothe quod I if yt were all one to rede a thyng & lerne a thynge. But now myght there be an other boke made also wyth lesse won­ders & fewer & therby lesse vnlykly / ād yett all vntrewe. And how should hys mynde geue hym than that thys boke tellyng so incredible wonders shuld be trew? ¶Nay quod he that thyng must he nedys beleue or els he can parceyue nothynge. ¶well quod I then is there one poynt of fayth one gret lessō to be lernyd without the boke / that must be lernyd sum where ether by god or mā / or els y ^• hole boke wyll do vs lytyll ser­uice. And of whom we shall lern that / we shall se herafter. But now suppose that thys olde ydolater were thorouly perswadyd in hys mynd y ^t all the boke were trew / thynk you thā that he shuld fynd out theryn all the artycles of our fayth? ¶I thynk quod he that he shuld ¶Thynk ye so q I? beyt so than. But thynk ye that he shall fynde them out [...] all in a weke? ¶Nay quod he y ^t can he not do. ¶well quod I than sith he shall not at the lest wyse fynde them out all on a day / let vs leue hym a lytyll while in sekyng / & we shall retorne agayn after to hym and loke what he shall haue founden. And in the meane season we shall go loke agayn vppon oure good lytell godsō the boy parde y ^t we cryste­ned ryght now & taught hym his crede & sett hym to scrypture. were it nede y ^• thys chyld knew no more of hys fayth but his crede before he go to scripture? ¶Me thynketh quod he that yt were ynoughe. ¶Be it so than quod I.

¶ whatt yf yt shoulde fortune hym to fynde some text of scripture that shuld seme to him to be cōtrary to his crede. As for ensample yf he happened vppō the redyng of these wordys / Dij estis & filij excelsi omnes / Goddys be ye all & the chyldern of the hye god. what yf he wolde wene that syth in these wordys it ys sayd all good mē be the chyldern of god / oure sauyour Cryste were not goddys onely begoten sonne / but hys sōne in such wyse as god by y ^• prophet callyth all good men? ¶That coud he not thynke q he. For he shuld in [...] other partes of scrypture fynd many placys y ^t shuld shew hym well the contrary.

¶well sayd quod I & very truth. But now in the mene tyme wyll ye that he shal beleue as y ^t text shall seme to soūd to hym agaynst hys crede tyll he haue found a nother texte in scrypture that answeryth yt & seemyth to hym to saye more playnly y ^e cōtrary? ¶Nay quod he not one houre. For he seeth / y ^t thogh other good men be callyd goddys chyldern & goddys / yet as they be not very goddys / so be they not goddꝭ very na­turall chyldern by generacyon but by [Page xxxiii] acceptacyon / where as the crede sayeth of our sauyour / that he is goddes onely bygotten sone / that sygnyfyeth him to be hys sōne by generacyon. ¶That is quod I very trew and well and resonably consyderyd / and accordynge vnto the very ryght fayth. But now consyder that ye make hym by and by fall to the squaryng of his stones lyke that slowthfull masō that ye spake of wyth hys leden rule. For now ye make hym to examyne the trouth of thys texte of the psalme by the artycle of the faythe / whych he brought wyth hym / and by a collecciō and discourse of reason. And so forthwyth ye finde both these rules necessarie to the discussiō of scrypture. Of whych twayne ye wolde in the byginnyng admit nether nother. ¶But now goo ferther. what yf he wolde vppon thys texte / homines & iumenta sal uabis deus / God thou shalt saue both men and bestys / wene that bestys had immortall soulis as menne haue / and that mā and beste shuld be both saued at laste / and so y ^• no dedely sinne shuld be ponyshed wyth euerlasting payne / [...]ll he cam to other textys that shulde proue well the contrarye / were y ^e beste or ellys were it better that bysyde hys crede he had knowlege bifore of these artycles of our feythe / that onely oure soules be in mortall and not bestys al so / And that y ^e payne of hell shalbe for synners euer lastīg / And that he may therby wyth reason ioyned therto / perceyue that this text / Thou shalte saue bothe men and bestꝭ / is mente by som other kinde of sauing and preseruyng here in thys world / and not of bryng­yng both to heuen? ¶All thys may he know quod he by scripture selfe well I [...]ough. ¶That wot I well q I. And yet as playne as christe speketh of hell ī the gospell / Origene for all y ^•/which neyther was a nawghty mā nor vnler­ned in scrypture / could not so clerly se it but that he sayed the contrary. And toke the wordes of Chryste in a wrōg sense. And wolde perauenture wythe one that wolde stykke onely vppon y ^e the wordys of scripture leuyng y ^e right sense therof / whych god and hys holly spryt hath tawght his churche / brynge hym to a baye therin / that he shuld be fayne not our chylde onely / but also a well elderly man and in scripture well forwarde / to take hym in conclusyon to y ^• fayth of Chrystys church. ¶Now if our childe sholde rede on the texte of scrypture wythout care of the commē tis / and wythout enny further enstruccyon of the poyntis of our faythe than be specyfyd in our commē [...]rede / made in the begynyng as a brefe remēbrans by the appostellys / not settyng out in so short a thyng and clerely declaring all that we be bounden to bileue / albeit y ^t he shuld well finde in scripture many playne and open textys wherbye y ^e godhed of our sauyour and his egaly­te w ^t his father may well & suffycyētly be prouyd / yet were he not vnlykly by such other textys as seme to shew hym to be lesse then his father / to fall into y ^e sect and heresy of y ^e Arryanys. And a­gaynst those other textys prouyng his egall godhed / to deuyse such false glo­sys as they did / where as being before taught and confyrmed by the fayth of y ^• chyrch y ^• our sauyour is one god and one egall substaūce w ^t his father / shall well perceyue and vnderstand therby / y ^t all y ^• textis y ^t seme to make him lesse / be nothyng to be vnderstanden of hys godhed but of his manhod onely. As when we comenly speke of our self ād of our owne nature / and say wee shall [Page] dye & wormys ete vs vpp & turne all to dust / we mene all thys by our body ōly and nothyng entend thereby to denye the immortalyte of our soule. we may not dyne to day yf I shulde reken you the tenth parte of such thyngys as we muste nedys vppon losse of heuyn byleue / whyche neyther oure chylde wyth hys only crede / and mych lesse our olde idolater wythout crede shuld so finde oute by scrypture / but that they were bothe well lykely to take the scrypture to the wrong parte / excepte we take w ^t vs for a rule of interpretacyon the articles of our fayth.

¶The .xxv. chapyter

¶The authour takyng occacyō vppon certayn wordes of the messēger / declareth y ^• preeminence / nec [...]ssite / and profite of holy scrypture / shewynge nathelesse that many thyngys haue bene taught by god wythoute wrytyng. And many great thyngꝭ so remayne yet vnwrytten of trew­thys necessarye to be bileued. And y ^t the new law of Christe is the law so wrytten in the hart / that yt shall ne­uer out of hys chyrche. And that the law there wryt [...]en by god / is a right rule to interprete the wordis writtē in hys holy / scrypture. whych rule w ^t reason and the olde interpretours / the author sheweth to be y ^e very sure waye to wade wythe / in the greate streme of holy scrypture.

wHy than quod he thys were as myche to say / as that god had not well wrytten his holy scrypture / if he haue caused yt to be wrytten so / as men may be so sone de­ceyued therin / that they were as likely and (as it semyth by you) more likely to fall in to a false wey thā fynde out y ^• [...]rew. And better were yt thā that god hade not geuen vs the scripture at all / than to gyue vs a way to walke / wher in we were more lykely to synke than saue our self. ¶holy scripture quod I / bothe is such as I haue sayed / and yet nothing followeth it theruppon / that god hathe not caused it to be wrytten well / or that it had bene better to haue kepte it frome vs. And albe it y ^t in this poynte were a great occasyō of a long tale / in declaryng and making open y ^• god hath in y ^t writing of holy scripture vsede so hygh wysedome and shewed such a wonderfull temperaunce / y ^t the very straunge famylyare fashyon the [...] of / may to good mē and wyse well de­clare / that as it was written by mē / so was it indyted by god / yet passīg ouer t [...]e prayse I wyll speke one worde or twayne for y ^e answer of suche blame as ye lay therto. For it is almost a comen thyng among men so to speke sūtyme as though they coud amēd the workis of god. And few men be there I wene but they thynke y ^t yf they had beene of goddys councell in the makyng of the world / though they dare not be so bold to say y ^t they coud haue made it beter / yet yf theye myghte haue ruled yt / hee shulde haue made many thyngys of a nother fassion. And for all y ^t if he wold yet call vs all to councell / and chaunge nothynge tyll wee were vppon euery thyng all agreed / y ^e world were well likly tyll domys day to go forth on as yt goth all redy / sauīg y ^• I wot nere whe­ther we wolde all agree to be wynged. ¶But as for y ^e scrypture shortely god hath so deuysed it / that he hath geuyn the world therin ā inestimable tresure as the case standeth. And yet we shuld happely nothyng haue neded therof if y ^• woundes of our own foly had not of oure greate necessyte & goddys greate [Page xxxiiii] goodnes requyred it. For at oure creacion he gaue but [...]wo preceptꝭ or thre by hys own holy mouth to our fyrst parentys. And as for all y ^t was for theym to do bysyde / the reason whiche he had planted ī theyre soules gaue them suf­fycient warnynge / wherof y ^• hole some stode in effecte / in the honoure of god & goddys frendys / wyth loue of eche to the other and to theyre ofspryng and linage. But the preceptis y ^• he gaue by mouth was thre. Twayne cōmaūdīg generacion and etynge / y ^• thyrd forbe­dyng the tre of knowlege. And y ^t was for them contynuall / where the tother twayn albe it they were therto boundē by the precepte / yet were not they and theyre posteryte bounden therto at all owers and all placis. But nede was it in the beginning to gyue theym kow­lege therof / for as mich as they had no hunger to warne theym of y ^e tone / nor sensuall rebellyouse appetite to warne theym of the tother. But after y ^t they were by god onis admonished therof / thā dyd reason enterprete y ^e rēnaunt / wherby they wyste y ^t they shuld ete for conseruacyon of theyre bodies / and in gender for propagaciō of theyr kinde. An [...] syth they perceyued that these .ii. thīgys was thēd & ētent of those com­maundementꝭ / they therby cōsequently knew whan it was tyme and place & occacyō cōuenient to fullfyll theym. But whan they had onys at y ^e subtell swasyon of the deuyll / brokē the thyrd commaundement in tasting y ^• forbedē fruyt / beyng than expelled out of paradise / than cōcernyng theyre foode and engenderinge / not ōly reasō ofte shew [...]d theym what was honeste & profyta­ble / but also sēsualyte what was bestely and plesaunte / whyche sensualyte labored so bysyly to cause man to sett by delyte aboue good and conueniente / y ^t for the resystence therof it then bycam to be the spyrytuall bysynesse & occupacion of man / so to preserue and bring vp the body / y ^t it were not suffered to maister y ^• soule / and so to rule & bridell sensualyte / y ^• it were subiecte and obe­dyent vnto reason / as god wylled the woman to be subiecte and obedyencer of man. wherin god wolde y ^t we were lerned rather to suffer our sēsuall ꝑtys playne and morne / thā to folow theyr own hurte & owers to. As it hade bene better for oure father Adame & vs all / that he had suffered hys wyffe our mother Eue / to be sad and angry bothe & lyke a womā to weepe to / than to haue eten thapple for f [...]leshype to please her wythe all. Now dyd all the syn anon springe vp for the more parte vppon y ^• occacyon of fedyng and ēgenderynge. wherof spronge couytouse / glotenye / [...]louth / wroth / & lechery. And many tymes pryde & ēuye as one / perceyuyng hym selfe in these thyngys in better cō dycyō or worse thā a nother / so bygan to cōceyue a settynge by hym selfe / w ^t-tō tempte of other or ēuye & hatered to some other (sauyng y ^e pryde sometime also sprang out of the soule) & so liked it selfe y ^t it ēuyed the better as Cayme dyd Abell / & for to be the more set by / pryde lōged superfluously to get by cou [...]tyse & gredynes many folkys lyuy [...] gys in hys own hādes / to make other fol [...]ys serue hym & honour & hāge vp­pon hym for necessite. And of all these myschie [...]fes was alway sēsualyte redy to mynyster mater / & by all the dorys & windous of the body by felynge / tastīg / smellīg / syght & heeryng / ceased neuer to sēde in occasyōs to y ^• soule / nor y ^e deuyll neuer ceacyd for hys [...] parte dylygētly to put forward. Agaynst whō [Page] did reasō resiste / wyth good counsayle geuyn to y ^e soule / & good spritꝭ appoynted by god / gaue theyr helpe also / and god assysted wyth hys ayde and grace where he founde the person wyllynge to worke therwyth. And ī this maner continued man long tyme / not wythe oute reuelacyō of Chryste onys to cū. whyche faythe delyuered to the father / went by mouthe to the sonne / And so frō chylde to chylde herd and byleued among theym. And what so were god dys pleasure bysyde / that nature and r [...]ason could not playnly shew theym / god of his goodnes by speciall mesage gaue theym vndouted knowlege as he did to Noe / Loth and Abraham / and diuerse other / wherof some be synnys wrytten and comprised ī scripture / & of lykelyhed not all. For well probable is it that y ^e patryarkys in dyuerse thingꝭ that they dyd / as in theyre dyuerse maryagys and sum such other thyngys as than were by theym well done for the time / were to theim appoynted specially by god for causys well knowene to hym selfe and vnknowen to vs / and y ^e thyngis now forbeden vs and therfore to vs vnlefull / excepte goddys lyke ordinaunce or dispensacyon shulde herafter in generall or pertyculer be reueled to the contrary. ¶But so was yt after that the worlde waxynge worse / ryght good and vertuouse linagys declynid and decayed. And by the the lewde cō ­uersacyon of euyll people fell by dysorder in suche a blyndnes / y ^• albe it some were there alway that perceyued well theyre dutye / yet were y ^e cōmen people of y ^• chyldern of Israell by custome of syn so darked in theyre naturall knowlege / that they lacked in many thingis the ryght perceyuyng / that reasō (had it not bene by euyll custōe corrupted) might verily well haue shewed theym. For y ^e remedy whereof god of hys endlesse mercy / by the law wrytten wythe his own fīger vnto Moyses ī y ^e tables of stone / by the .x. cōmaundementys / put in remēberaunce agayne certeyne cōclusyons of the law of nature / which theyre reason (ouerwhelmed wyth sensualytye) had than forgotten. And to thende that they shuld kepe his bihestꝭ y ^e better / he gaue theym a greate hepe of the lawes and cerymoneys moo / to kepe theym in strayte for strayynge a­brode in ryot. And wroughte greate wonders that theye shulde well se that those thyngys were hys owne deede / wherby they myght haue y ^e more drede to transgresse them. And there in wrytyng he gaue a warnyng also of cryst / that god wolde onys send them, spryngyng of themself / to whom they shuld gyue herynge in stede of Moyses. Of whō also as well before as after by Patryarkes and prophetys / by fygures & prophesyes / god ceaced not ī such wise to foreshew hys cummyng / hys cause / hys lyuyng / hys deyng / hys resurreccyon and hys holy actys / that yf pryde & enuy had not lettyd it / the fygurys ād prophysyes sett & comparyd wyth hys cummyng / conuersacyon & doyngys / myghte well haue made all the Iewes to know hym. And for the parceyuyng and good vnderstandyng of the lawe wryten / he sent alway sum good men / whose wordys / well lyuyng / and sum­tyme also manyfeste myracles shewed therwyth / neuer left them destytute of suffycyent knolege that lōgyd to lern the lawe. Not to plete it and for glory to dyspute itt / but to teche ytt agayne mekely. And as mannys fraylte could suffer it / specyally to fulfyll & kepe it. ¶yet after all thys whē the world was [Page xxxv] in a more decay & ruyne of all vertew / than cā our sauyour Cryste to redeme vs w ^t hys deth / & leue vs hys new law / wherof was long before prophecied by the prophete Hyeromy. Lo the days be comyng sayth our lord / whā I shall or­der & dyspose to the house of Israell & y ^e house of Iuda / a new couenaūt or tes­tament. I shall gyue my law in theyre myndys. And I shall wryte yt in theyr hart. & I wylbe theyr lord & they shalbe my people. Thys law wrytē in mēnys hartys / was accordyng to y ^e wordys of the ꝓphet fu [...]st broght by our sauyour to y ^e house of Israell & y ^e house of Iuda to whō as hym self sayth he was specy­ally sent. I am not sēt sayth our lorde but vnto y ^e shepe y ^t are peryshyd of the house of Israell. And also he sayd it ys not good to take y ^e brede fro y ^e borde of y ^e chyldern & cast yt to doggꝭ. But yet not onely the redy towardnes of sum other caus [...]d thē to be partetakers of y ^e brede / but also sone after y ^e stubbernes & obstynate infydelyte of y ^e iewes / cau­syd seynt poule & thappostels to say vnto their face / The gospell of Crist was ordenyd by god to be furst prechyd vnto you / But syth y ^t ye refuse yt / Lo we depart frō you to the gentylys. And so was in theyr stede the chyrch gatheryd of all the world abrode. All whych not wythstandyng both were there at that tyme out of y ^e Iewes cōuertyd & made many a good crysten man / & manye of y ^e same peple turnyd vnto Cryst syns / & in conclusyō the tyme shall cū / whē y ^e remnaūt y ^t shalbe than lefte / shall saue them selfe by the same faythe. Thys ys callyd the law of Crystis fayth / the law of hys holye gospell. I mene not onely the wordys wryten in the bokys of his euangelistys / but mych more specyally y ^e substaunce of our fayth yt self / whych our lorde sayd he wolde wryte in men­nys hartys / not onely because of the secrete operacyon of god & hys holy spy­ryte / in iustyfyēg the good crystē ether by the workīg with mānys good wyll / to the ꝑfeccyon of fayth in his soule / or wyth the good intent of the offerers to the secret infusyon of that vertew into the soule of an innocēt infant / but also for y ^t he furst wythout wryting reueled those heuenly mysteryes by hys blessed mouth thorow the erys of hys apostels & dyscyples ī to theyr holy hartys. And by them in lyke maner / furst wythowt wrytyng by onely wordys & prechyng so spredde yt abrode in the world / that hys faythe was by the mouthys of hys holy messengers put into mēnys erys / and by hys holy hande wryten in men­nys hartys or euer eny worde thereof almoste was wrytten in the boke. And so was it conuenyēt for the law of lyfe / rather to be wryten in the lyuely myn­dys off men / than in the dede skynnys of bestys. And I nothynge dowt but all had ytt so beene / that neuer gospell had bene wrytten / yet shoulde the sub­staunce of thys faythe neuer haue fal­len oute of chrysten folkys hartys / but the same spyryte that plantyde yt / the same shulde haue wateryd it / the same shulde haue kepte yt / the same shoulde haue encreased yt. ¶But so hath yt ly­ked oure lorde after hys hye wysdome to prouyde that some of his dyscyples haue writen many thingys of his holy lyfe / doctryne and fayth / and yet farre from all / which (as saynt Iohn sayth) the worlde coude not haue comprehen hyd. ¶These bokis ar tempryd by the secrete coūcell of the holy gost so playn and symple / that euery man may fynd in theym that he may parceyue [...] And yet so highe agayne and so harde that [Page] no mā ys there so connyng but he may fynde in them thyngys farr aboue hys reche / farre to profound to perce vnto. Now were to y ^e crysten peple the poyntys of Crystꝭ fayth (wyth whych poyntys our lord wold haue them chargyd) knowen as I say and plantyd before / and by reson therof they farr the beter vnderstode those bokꝭ. And all thogh there myghte happely be some textys / whych were not yet of necessyte for thē to parceyue / yet by the poyntꝭ of theyr fayth were they warnyd / that no texte myghte there be constrewyd contrary to theyr fayth. ¶And none Euāgelyst was there nor none Appostle / that by wrytyng euer sent the fayth to eny na­cyon / but yf they were furst enformyd by worde / and that god had begon his church in y ^• place. ¶And for my parte I wolde lytyll dout / but that the euangelystys and appostels bothe / of many gret and secrete mysteryes spake much more openly & much more playnely by mouth amōg the peple than euer they put yt ī wrytyng / for as much as theyr wrytyngys were lykly ynough at that tyme / to come into the handys of paganys & paynyms / such hoggys & doggꝭ as were not metely to haue those precyous perlys put vppon theyre nose / nor that holy foode to be dashyd in theyre teeth. For whych cause saynt Peter in hys furste sermon vnto the Iewes / ab­staynyd f [...]ō the declaracyon of Crystis godhed & egalytee wyth hys father / as our sauiour him self (when the Iewes y ^t were vnworthy to here yt / were offē ­dyd wyth that he told them playnly y ^t he was the sonne of god) wythdrewe y ^e doctryne from them agayn / & coueryd yt wyth the verse of y ^e prophete / I haue sayd ye be goddys & sonnys of the hye god all / as though he wol [...]e say / what greuyth it you that name in me / which name god by y ^t prophet hath gyuen to all good men. In which demeanure he denyed not the trouth y ^t he had sayd of him self / but he blyndyd theyr wylfully wynkyng eyes / ī hydyng & puttyng vp agayn the iewell y ^t he began to brynge forth & shew thē [...] the bryght lustre whero [...] theyr bleryd eyes myght not endure to be [...]old. ¶And what maruell thogh thappostels thus did in theyr speche a­fore infydels / or wrytyng y ^t myghte cū into pagans hādys / whan it apperyth vppō the epystels of saynt Pou [...]e that amōg the crysten flok where he taught thē by mouth / he told thē not all y ^e tro­thys at one tale / Not ōly for y ^t yt were to lōg / but also for y ^t in the begynnyng they coud not happely well abyden yt. And therfore as Cryste sayd to his dyscyples / I haue more to say to you / but ye be not able to bere yt yet / whyche o­nys apperyd what tyme y ^• vppon y ^e dysclosyng of the grete mystery of the holy sacrament the holy flesh of hys body / y ^• herers sayd who can abyde thys harde worde / & therw ^t wente almost all theyre waye / so did saynte Poule I say by the Corynthians not teche thē all at onys. And therfore he sayth in hys epistle to them / I haue geuen yow hetherto but mylk & not strōg mete. And wysdome speke we (sayth he) amōg folk y ^• be par­ [...]yt. Nor I mene not this y ^t there were eny poyntis of the substaūce of y ^• fayth whych he shewyd to y ^e clargy y ^t he kept frō the lay people / or shewyd vnto one man y ^t he kept frō a nother / but y ^• to no mā lyghtly he shewed all at onys. But because sum cā frō the Iewes and sum cā of y ^• gentylys / therfore as they were so were they hādelyd / not ōly by grace but also by wysdome. & not only in the poyntys of y ^e fayth / but also in y ^e rytys [Page xxxvi] [...]nd [...]eremonyes / eyther of the churche or of Moyses lawe. whereof some ce­r [...]monyes were forthwyth abolyshed / some nott by and by / and some taken ī to the church of Cryste and obseruyd styll. But in conclusyō when they were mete therefore / they were all taughte / all that god wold haue them bounden to beleue. And than dout I nothyng / but y ^e many thyngis that now be very darke in holy scrypture / were by thap­postels (to whō oure lord openyd theyr wyttys y ^• they myght vnderstand scripture) so playnly declaryd / y ^t they were by the people well and clerely vnder­stāden. I say not all the hole scripture / in whych it may be that many a secrete mystery lyeth yet coueryd cōcernynge the comyng of Antecryste / & y ^e day ma­ner & fassyon of the fynall iudgement. whyche shall neuer be fully dysclosyd / tyll the tymys appoyntyd by goddys hye prouydence mete & conuenient for them. And from tyme to tyme as yt lykyth hys maieste to haue thyngys knowen or done in hys chyrche / so ys yt no dout but he temperyth hys reuelacyōs & in such wyse doth insumate & inspyre them into the brestys of hys crysten people / that by the secrete instynct of the holy gost / they consent and agre to gether ī one / except heretykys that rebell and refuse to be obedyent to god & his chirch [...] who be therby cut of frō y ^e liuely tre of that vyne / and waxing withered braunches / be kept but for the fire furst here & after in hell / except they repent & call for grace that may graft them into the stok agayne. But as it may be that many thyngys be there not all at onys reuelyd & vnderstāden in y ^• scrypture / but by sōdry tymys & agys mo thyngꝭ and mo by god vnto hys chyrch dysclosyd / and that as yt shall lyke hys hygh goodnes & wysdome to dyspence and dyspose / so in thyngys to be done may fall in hys chyrche varyete mutacyon & chaunge / so am I very sure that the holy goste that god sent into hys chyrch / & Cryste hym self that hath promisyd vnto thende of the world to perseuer and abyde in hys church / shall neuer suffer hys catholyk chyrch neyther to agree to the makynge of any law that shalbe to god dampnably dysplesaūt / nor of eny trewth that god wolde were beluyd to determyne or beleue the contrary. For than had Cryste whych ys all trouthe / broken hys promyse / and (whych were blasphemy ād abhomynable to thynk) were waxē vntrew. And therfore ouer thys as it may be that as I sayd before some thyngys in holy scrypture be not yet fully parceyuyd and vnderstandē / so am I very su [...]e that the chyrch ney­ther doth nor can do dāpnably conster, yt wrong. whych yt shuld yf they shuld conster yt so as yt shuld make an arty­cle of mysbelyefe and of a false errony­ous faythe. As yf they shulde by mysseconstruccyō of the scrypture bryng vp and beleue / that Cryste were one god and egall wyth hys father and wyth y ^e holy goste / yf y ^e trouth were otherwyse in dede. And therefore syth the chyrche in whych Cryste ys assystente and hys holy spyryte / cānot to goddes displea­sure and theyre dampnacyō fall in any false beleefe in eny suche substauncyall poynte of the fayth / yt muste nedys be th [...]rfore / that Arrius and all other he­retykes be drowned in dampnable er­rours. The cōtrary oppynyō of whose execrable heresyes / the church was in y ^e begynninge taughte by the mouthe of Cryst hym self. And after of his blissed appostels / whyche redde & declaryd the scrypturs amōg y ^e peple in theyr tyme / [Page] shewyng them in what wyse y ^e wordis of holy scrypture prouyd the trouth of such artycles of y ^e fayth as they taught them by mouth. And how such textys as semyd the contrary were not contrary in dede. And therwyth declaryd thē of those textys y ^e ryght vnderstādyng. ¶And albeyt y ^t our sauyour shewyd & playnly prouyd y ^t in the scrypture was geuen good tokens & suffycyent knowlege of hym / yet to thentent we shulde well know that hys own word & ordy­naunce nedyth none othere authoryte but hym self / but ys to be beleuyd and obeyd be it wryten or not wryten / sum thyngys dyd he therfore byd to be dō / & sū thyngys also to be beleuyd / wher­of we haue in holy scripture no wrytīg in the world. Saynt Poule cōmaun­dyth the people of Thessalonica in his epystle to kepe the tradycyons that he t [...]ke them eyther by hys wrytyng or by hys bare word. For y ^e wordis y ^t he sayd among them / our lorde had told them hym for them. And therfore he writeth vnto the Corynthyes / that of the holy howsell the sacramente of the auter he had shewyd them the mater & y ^e maner by mouth / as our lord had hym self ta­ught yt to hī. And therfore no dout ys there / but that by thappostels was the chyrche more fully taughte of y ^e mater / than euer was wryten in all the scryp­ture. There was lernid the maner and forme of consecracyon. There was lernyd mych of the mystycall gesturys ād ceremonyes vsyd in the masse. And yf any man dout therof / let hym cōsyder where shuld we els haue the begynnig of the water put wyth the wyne into y ^e chalyce. For well we wot y ^t y ^e scrypture byddyth yt not. And euery wyse man may well wyt thā whan the gospell spekyth onely of wy [...]e / there durst no mā in thys world haue bene so bold to [...]ut eny thing els therto. For whē y ^e gospell spekyth of wine onely tornyd into hys precyous blood / what man wold aduē ture to make any myxture of water? And now ys y ^e chyrch so well acertenid of goddys pleasure theryn w ^toute any scrypture / y ^t they not onely dare put in water / but also dare not leue yt oute. And wherby knew y ^e chyrch this thing but by god & hys holy appostels whych taught in theyr tyme? And so wente yt forth from age to age / contynued in y ^e chyrch vntyll thys day / begon by god ī the begynnyng without any mencyon made ī holy scripture. ¶How beit Lu­ther sayth because yt ys not cōmaūdyd by scrypture / wee maye chese therefore whether we wyll do yt or leue yt. For this one poynt ys y ^e very fōd foūdaciō & groūd of all hys greate heresyes / y ^t a man is not boūdē to beleue eny thyng but if yt may be ꝓuyd euidētly by scripture. And theruppō goth he so farforth y ^t no scrypture cā be euidēt to ꝓue eny [...]hyng y ^t he lyst to deny. For [...]e will not agre it for euydēt be it neuer so playn. And he wyll call euidēt for him y ^t text / y ^t ys euydēt agaīst hī. And sūtime if it be to playn agaīst him / thā wyll he call it no scrypture / as he playth w ^t y ^e pystle of saynt Iamys. And because the olde holy doctors be full & hole against him / he settyth thē all at nought. And wyth these worshipfull wyse ways he procla­myth hī self a cōquerour / where besidꝭ all y ^e rēnaūt / wherin euery chylde may se hys proud frātyk foly he ys shāfully put to flyght in y ^e furst poynt / y ^t had at y ^e furst face sum vysage of ꝓbabylyte. How be it to say the trouthe / he were a lewde lorell that wolde nothynge doo that hys master wold byd hym / nor no thyng beleue but that his master wold [Page xxxvii] tell hym / but yf he take yt hym in wry­tyng / as Luther playth wyth Cryste. Of whose wordys or actys he wyll be­leue nothīg / except he fynde yt in scripture / and that playne & euident. Now must he by that meanys condemne the chyrch of Cryste / for that they sayntyfy not the saturday which was the sabba­othe day instytute by god amonge the Iewes / cōmaundyng the sabbat daye to be kept holy. And albeyt the matter of y ^e precepte ys morall & the day legall so y ^t yt may be chaunged / yet wyll ther I weene no man thynke / that euer the chyrch wold take vppon thē to chaūge yt wythout specyall ordynaūce of god. wherof we fynd no remēbraunce at all in holy scripture. By what scripture is euydētly knowen y ^t euery mā & womā hath power to mynyster the sacramēt of baptysme? Let yt be shewyd / eyther cōmaundment / councell / lycence or example expressyd in scrypture. ¶Many thyngys ar there lyke / whyche as holy doctours agree / were taught thappos­tels by Cryste / & the church by thappostels / and so comen downe to our days by cōtynuall successyō fro theyrs. But I wyll lette all other passe ouer & speke but of one. ¶Euery good cristen man I dout not beleuyth that oure blessyd Lady was a perpetuall vyrgyn aswell after the byrth of Cryste as before. For yt were a straunge thynge y ^t she shuld after that blessyd byrth be lesse myndid to clennes & puryte / and set lesse by her holy purpose & ꝓmyse of chastyte vowed and dedycate vnto god / thē she dyd before. For suerly who so consyderyth y ^e wordys of the gospell in saynt Luke / shall well ꝑceyue that shee had vowyd vyrginite. For when y ^e angell had sayd vnto her / Lo thou shalt cōceyue in thy wōbe & bryng forth a chylde / and thou shalt call his name Iesus / she answerd hym / how may thys be? for as for man I know none. whych though yt be spoken but for the tyme than present / yett muste yt nedys sygnyfy that she neuer wolde knowe none after the maner of spekynge. By whych a nunne myghte say / as for man there medelyth none w ^t me. sygnyfieng that neuer there shall. And in commen speche ys that fygure mych in vse. By which a woman sayth of one whom she is determynyd neuer to mary / we maye well talke to gether but we wed not to gether / meanyng y ^t they neuer shall wed to gether. And in such wise ment our lady whē she sayd / how may thys be for I know no man / meanyng that she neuer wolde medle wyth man. Or els had her answere no thyng bene to purpose. For the angell sayd not / Lo thou art cōceyuyd. which yf he had sayde / shee myghte well haue maruelyd onely for y ^t she knew no man all redy. But when he sayd thou shalte cōceyue / thys coud be no maruell vnto her for that she knew no man all redy. And therfore syth she maruaylyd how it myghte be y ^t euer she shuld cōceyue & haue a chylde / it muste nedys bee y ^t her answer mēt y ^t she neuer wold medle w ^t man. And therefore shee maruelyd be­cause he said it shuld be & she knew not how it coude be / but y ^t ways by whych she was at full poīt w ^t her self y ^t it shuld neuer be. so y ^t thē he shewyd her how it shuld cū about by y ^e holy gost cūmyng into her / & y ^e power of god on hygh shadoyng her. & thē she assētyd & sayd / Lo here y ^e handmayd of god / be yt done to me after thy worde as thou tellyst me. And thus appereth yt euydently y ^t she had than a full determinyd purpose of vyrgynyte. And that as it semith such as she thought not lawfull to change.. [Page] For ellys whā y ^e angell did y ^e message / she might haue enclined therto though she had byfore bene in a nother minde. Now whan she had then so full & faste a purpose of ꝑpetuall vyrginite bifore the birthe of her blessyd chylde / whiche cam among his other heuinly doctrine to call and exorte the worlde frome all pleasure of y ^e fleshe to y ^e purytye & clennes of the body and soule / and from y ^e desyre of carnall generacyō to a gost­ly regeneracion in grace / more [...] were it then wonder if she shul [...] haue thē more regarde of fleshely delyte / or cure of wordly procreacyon than euer she had before her celestyall concepcyon of her maker made mā in her blessed womb? Or what man coud thynk yt that euer god wold suffer any erthly man after / to be conceyuyd in that holy closet ta­ken vp and consecrate so specyally to god? Thys reuerent artycle of our la­dys perpetuall vyrgynyte / the chyrche of Cryste beyng taught the trouthe by Cryste / perpetually hath beleuyd syns the tyme of Cryste. And yet is ther no worde therof in Crystys gospell wry­ten / but rather dyuers textys so sown­ning to the contrary / that by the wrōg vnderstangyng of them / the heretyke Eluydyus toke the occasyon of hys herysy / by whych he wold that oure lady after the byrth of Cryst had other chyl­dern by Ioseph. How can we than say that we could wythout the lernynge of the fayth before / fynde out all the poyntys in the scrypture / when there be sū that all crystendome beleue / ād beleue them self bounden to beleue / wherof y ^e scrypture geueth no playne doctryne but rather semyth to say the contrary. ¶But as I began to say / the holy ap­postels beynge taughte by theyr grete master Cryste / did reche vnto y ^e chyrch as well the artycles of the fayth / as the vnd [...]rstandyng of such textys of scrypture as was meete and conuenient for the matter. wherby it is not vnlykly y ^t the gospell of saynt Iohn / & the epistels of saynt Poule / were than beter vnderstanden among the comen people / thā they be paraduenture now wyth some that take them selfe for greate clerkys. And as thappostels at y ^t tyme taughte the people / so dyd euer some of them y ^t hard thē tech forth and leue theyr doc­tryne and tradycyons to other that cā after. By resō whereof not onely cam the rytys and sacramentys and the ar­tycles of our fayth frō hād to hand / frō Cryste & his appostels vnto our days / but also the greate parte of the ryghte vnderstandynge of holy scrypture by good and godly writers of sundry tymys. By whose good & holesome doc­tryne set forthe by theyre vertew wyth goddys good inspyracyon grace and h [...]lp of the holy goste / we haue also the knowlege & parceyuynge what was y ^e fayth of Crystys church in euery tyme syns. And thereby parceyue we y ^t these hereti [...]ys be not only barkers agaynst y ^e fayth that now is / but also that hath bene euer synnys Cryste dyed. ¶And therefore is holy scrypture as I sayd y ^e hyest & the best lernynge that eny man can haue / yf one take the ryght way in the lernynge. ¶It ys (as a good ho­ly saynte saythe) so maruelously tem­peryd / that a mouse may wade therin / and an olyphaunt be drownyd therin. For ther is no mā so low / but if he will seke his way wyth the staff of his faith in hys hande / and holde that faste and serche the way therwyth / and haue the olde holy fathers also for his gidis / goynge ō wyth a good purpose & a low­ly harte / vsyng reason and refusinge [Page xxxviii] no good lerninge / with calling of god for wysdome grace & help that he may well kepe his way and follow his good gidys / thā shall he neuer fall in parell / but well and suerly wade thorow and cum to suche ende of his iorney as him self wolde well wyshe. But suerly if he be as long as Longius / & haue an hye harte and truste vppon hys one wytt (as he doth loke he neuer so louly / that settethe all the olde holy fathers att noughte) that fellow shall not fayle to synk ouer the eris and droune. And of all wreches warst shall he walke / y ^t for­cīg litle of the fayth of Christꝭ church / cūmeth to the scrypture of god to loke and trye therin whyther the chyrche by leue a right or not. For either douteth he whyther Chryste teche hys chyrche trew / or ellys whyther Chryste techeth it at all or not. And thā he doutith whither Christ ī his wordis did say trewe / whan he sayde he wolde be wythe hys chyrch tyll the ende of the worlde. And surely the thynge y ^t made Arrius Pe­lagius / Faustus / Manicheꝰ / Donatꝰ / Eluidius & all y ^e table of the old herytikes to drown them self in those dāpnable herysyes / was nothynge but hygh pride of theyre lernynge in scrypture / wherin they folowed there owne wyt­tys and lefte the cōmen faythe of the catholyke chyrche / preferrynge theyre own gay glosys bifore the ryght catholyke fayth of all Christis chirch / which cā neuer erre in eny substāciall poynte that god wolde haue vs boundē to byleue. And therfore to ende wher we bygan / who so wyll not vnto the study of scrypture take the poyntꝭ of y ^e catholyque fayth as a rule of interpretacyon / but of dyffydens and mystruste study to seke in scrypture whyther the fayth of the chyrch be trew or not / he cā not fayle to fall in worse errors & farr more ieoperdous than eny mā can do by phylosophy / wherof the reasons and argu­mentys in maters of our faythe haue nothyng the lyke authorytye.

¶The .xxvi. chapyter

¶The messenger sayenge that hym semed he shulde not byleue y ^e chyrch if he saw the chyrche saye one thyng and holy scrypture a nother thynge because the scrypture is the word of god / the author she wyth y ^t the fayth of the chyrch ys the word of god as well as the scrypture / ād therfore as well to be beleuyd. And y ^t the fayth & the scrypture well vnde [...]stāden be neuer cōtrary. And farther she with y ^t vppon all doutys rysynge vppon holy scrypture concernynge any ne­cessary artycle of the faythe / he that cannot vppon all that he cā here in the mater ō both the sydys parceyue y ^e beter & trewer parte / hath a sure & vndoutable refuge ꝓuydyd him by the goodnes of god to brynge hym out of all ꝑplexyte / in that god hath cōmaundyd hym in all such doutys to beleue hys chyrch.

TRuly syr q he me thynketh it is well sayed that ye haue sayed. And in good faythe to say the truth I se not what I shuld answere yt wythall. And yet whan I loke bak agayne vppō holy scrypture / and consyder that yt ys goddys owne wordys whyche I wote well ye wyll graunte / I fynde it harde ī myne har [...] to beleue all the mē yn the hole world / yf they wolde say eny thyng wherof I shuld se that the hol [...] scrypture sayth y ^e contrary / sythe yt ys reason that I be­leue god alone far better than thē all. ¶In that quod I ye say very trouthe. But nowe I putt case that god wolde [Page] tell you .ii. thyngys whether of theym wolde ye beleue best. ¶Nether nother q he / but I wolde byleue theym bothe firmly & both a like ¶. what if neyther nother quod I were lykely to be trew but semede bothe twayne impossyble. ¶That shold quod he make litle force to me. For that onis knowen that god telleth theym / semed they neuer so far vnlikly nor neuer so far impossible / I neyther shuld nor could haue eny dout but that they were both twayne trew. ¶That ys well sayde q I. But now and yt so were that those .ii. thyngis semed the tone to the tother clene cōtrary / what wolde ye than thynk & which wolde ye thā byleue? ¶yet could I not quod he dout eny thyng but that they were very trew bothe / but I wolde veryly thynke that I dyd not well vnder stande the tone of theym. ¶what wold ye than do quod I if he bad you bileue theym bothe. ¶Mary q he than wold I praye hym tell me furste how he vn­derstandeth theym bothe. For though I bileue that they be both trew in that sense and purpose that he takythe hys owne wordes / and may in that maner vnderstanden / well stande and agree to gether / yet can I not byleue theym both in that sense and vnderstandyng wherin they repugne and be directely cōtrary eche to other. ¶That is quod I so well sayd y ^t in my mynde no man cā amend yt. ¶But now wold I wytt quod I whyther that the faythe of the chyrche be the worde of god / & by god spoken to the chyrche or not. ¶yes q he god speketh to hys chyrche in y ^e scripture. And ys nothyng goddes wordꝭ. q I but scrypture? The wordys y ^t god spake to Moyses were theye not god­dys wordys all tyll they were wryttē? And the wordys of Chryste to hys a­posteles were they not hys wordys till they were wryttē? ¶yes than quod he. But now sythe he hathe perfyted and finished the corpus of holy scrypture / all thynge that he wold chrystē people shulde byleue / and all that he wold the chyrche wold do / and all that he wold the churche shuld eschew / all thys hath he lefte theym hys mynde suffycyently in holy scrypture. ¶And none other wyse quod I bysyde? I had wentt we had bene at a nother poynt / in that ye se y ^e sabbat day chaunged in to sōday wythoute eny worde of scrypture / ge­uyng eny cōmaūdement of y ^e chaunge in the new testement / from the cōmaū demente geuyn for the saterday in the olde. And also for the poynte that we spake of / towchinge the perpetuall virginite of our lady wherof ys no worde wrytten in scrypture. But syth I per­ceyue that the grete affeccyō and reuerence that ye bere to the scrypture of god / not wythout greate cause but w ^t ­out eny mesure / makethe you in the case that ye take all authoryte and credence from euery word of god spoken besyde the scrypture / I wolde ask yow therfore thys questyon. If god yn holy scrypture tell you .ii. thyngꝭ that seme the tone contrary to the to [...]here / as for ensample yf he tell yow in one place y ^• he ys lesse than hys father / and in a no there place that he and his father be all one / whych of these wyll you beleue?

¶Mary quod he both twayn. for they may stande to gether well inough. For he was lesse as man / & was all one & e­gall as god. ¶Uery trouth yt ys quod I that ye say. But now yf ye had bene born in y ^e days of Arrius the heretyke / he wolde not haue receyuyd nor holde hym self contente wyth thys answere / but he wold haue agreed you the furst [Page xxxix] parte and put you ferther to proue the secunde parte. And vnto that t [...]te he wolde haue made you a glose that hys father & he were one not in substaunce but in wyll. And that glose he wolde haue fortyfyed & made sūwhat semely wyth a nother word of Chryste ī which he prayed hys father sayyng / as thou & and I be bothe one so make thou that they & we may be made one / menīg by hys chrysten peole whyche shall neuer be one wyth hym in substance. So y ^t for the inequalitie of Chryst by reason of hys māhed / ye must agre wyth him. But for vnyte of godhed / he wyll not agree wythe hym but putt you alway to proue it. ¶well quod he and thoghe he so dyd yet yf I were prouydid there fore / therbe textis ynowe that playnly proue yt. ¶That is quod I very truth But yet ys there none but he shall al­way set you a nother agaynste yt / and a glose as faste for yours as ye shall haue an answere for hys / in such wyse as he may abuse a right wyse and well lernyd man as he dyd ī hys owne days & many dayes after many a thousād. Than yf yt so were that in that dyspy­cyons ye coude not make youre audy­ence to dyscerne the truthe / nor perad­uenture persuade theym to byleue the truthe / bycause the false parte myghte happe to haue to the myndys of many a more face of trewth / as it had at that tyme to manye that than were of that secte / what way wold ye wynde oute? ¶Mary quod he I wolde byleue well my selfe the trewthe & go to god / and lett theym that wolde byleue the false parte go to the deuyll / ¶ye shulde q I haue takyn therin a good sure way. But now yf ye had bene in that tyme (albe yt ye be now faste and sure in the trewthe) ye myght haue happed whyle the matter was in questyone / & many greate clarkys & well scryptured men / and some semyng ryght holy / sett on the wronge syde / ye myghte haue hap­ped I say so to haue bene moued wi [...]h the reasons on bothe the sides / that ye shulde not haue wyste on whych parte to determyne your byleue. And what wolde ye than haue done? ¶Quod he ye put me now to a pynch / and I shall ans [...]ere you as I haue harde say that doctor Mayo sumtyme almoigner to kyng henry y ^• seuynth answered onys the kynge at hys table. It happed that ther was fallen in cōmunicaciō y ^• story of Ioseph how his masters Putiphers wyfe a greate mā w ^t y ^• kyng of Egipt / wold haue pullid hym to bed / & he fled away. Now master Mayo ( q y ^e kingꝭ grace) ye be a tall stronge man on the tone syde / and a cunnynge doctor on y ^e tother syde / what wold ye haue done yf ye had bene not Iosephe but in Io­sephes stede? By my trouthe syr q he and yt lyke your grace / I can not tell you what I wold haue don but I can tell you well what I shulde haue don.

By my trouthe quod the kynge that was very well answerid. And sith that answere serued hym well there / I shall make y ^e same serue me here. For surely if I had bene in Arrius days ī y ^e poynt that ye speke of / what I wold haue dō that wot I nere. But what I shulde haue done that can I well tel you and surely trust I wolde haue done so too. ¶what ys y ^t quod I. ¶Mary I wolde haue byleued the beste quod he. ¶The best quod I? that were beste in dede yf ye wyst whych yt were. But the case ys put / that the reasons grounded vppon scrypture semyd vnto you in such wise eche to impugne and answere other / y ^t ye stode in such a dout / that ye coud in [Page] no wy [...]e dyscerne whythere syde sayde best. ¶By god quod he I had forgotē that. well than were it beste quod he / and so wolde I haue done I thynke / knele me downe and make my speciall prayour to god y ^t yt myght please hys goodnes ī so great a parell not to leue me ꝑplexed / but vouchesafe to enclyne myne assent vnto that syde y ^t he knew were trew / and wolde I shulde byleue to be trew. And then wold I boldly byleue the tone whyche god shulde haue put in my mynde. Had not thys bene y ^e best way? ¶If yt were not quod I the best / yt myght paraduenture serue for a seconde. ¶A secunde quod he thā ye take yt for noughte. ¶Nay quod I / ther be two secondys after two maner countyngys. One nexte vnto y ^• worst / a nother nexte vnto y ^e beste. And your way ys surely far fro y ^• worste. But yet dare I not assent that yt were the beste tyll I vnderstand yt better. And ther­fore I pray you tell me thys. If after your speciall prayours made / ye wrote the tone parte in one paper and the tother parte ī a nother and layed theym both on the grounde / and then sett vp ā staffe bytwene theym both / wolde ye be then indefferent to take y ^• tone side or y ^• tother after / as yt shulde hap your staffe to fall? ¶why not quod he. Or ellys put yt vppon two lottys / and than at auenture drawe the tone & take yt. For whē I haue done as mych as mine owne wyt wyll serue / and haue harde therto all that I can of other mē / and yet by neyther can perceyue the better opiniō / what shuld I do or what could I do ferther thā pray for grace to gide my choyce / and so at auenture bol [...]dly take y ^e tone and holde it fast / dowtyng nothynge but god assysted my choyce / yf I haue a ferm fayth in hys promyse by whyche he promyseth that yf we as [...] we shall haue askyng as saynt Iamys sayeth wythout any dowte. And why shulde not I in suche perplexed case after help callid for of god / take the tone parte at aduenture by lot as dyd thappostels in the chesyng of a new / to fulfyll y ^• place of y ^• tratour Iudas? ¶Lottys quod I be well lawfull ī the choyse of such two thyngꝭ as be both so good y ^t we be lykly to chose well inough why there so euer we take. But now yf ye were in the case that I haue harde my father meryly say euery man ys at the choyse of hys wyfe / that ye shulde put your hande in to a blynde bagg full of snakys & elys to gether .vii. snakis for ōe ele / ye wold I wene rekē it a ꝑilous choyse to take vppe one at aduenture though ye had made your speciall prayour to spede well. Nor ye ought not in suche case to aduenture it vppon your prayour and trust of god wythout ne­cessytye. ¶That ys ꝑaduēture trouth quod he. But in our case there ys necessytye. For there were none othere way to auoyde the ꝑplexitie / but euyn take the tone by prayour and ferm truste in god / whyche neuer deceyued theym y ^t truste in hym. ¶If there were quod I none other way sumwhat were it than y ^t ye say. But now consyder your case agayne. And whan yt so were that ye coulde not vppon that ye hard the Ar­ryanys and the catholyke parte argue to gether / parceyue whyther part were the better / and therfore of those two talys tolde you by god in many textis of holy scrypture / some semynge playnely to say that Cryste was not egall wyth hys father / some semynge as playnely to say the contrary / ye coud in no wise fynde ony reason / whereby ye coulde finde your self moued to take the tone [Page xl] parte for more probable than y ^• tother. I put case than that god wold hym self saye to you I haue shewed the trouthe of this mater to suche a man / and how my scrypture ys to be vnderstandē cō ­cernyng the same. Go thy wayes ther­fore to hym. And that thyng y ^t he shall tell the that thyng byleue thou. wolde ye saye nay good lorde I wyll aske no man but thy self / and therefore tell me thyne owne mouth / or els I wyll take the tone parte at all aduentures / and thynke that thou wolde haue yt so / or ellys wold ye thynke y ^t god were your good lorde & had done myche for you in that it lykyde hym so graciously for your surete to brynge you oute of such a great perplexitye / wherby ye shulde for your owne mynde haue remayned in an insoluble dowte ī a mater of the fayth / whereī it ys damnable to dwell in dowte or (whyche y [...]t myche worse were) haue declyned peraduenture in to an inuyncyble errour? ¶Ueryly q he greate cause shuld I haue had lightly to thanke god. ¶ ye wolde not than quod I fyrste make your prayour and than wyth good hope that grace shall guyde your fortune take y ^• tone parte at auēture by lot / but ye wold in your prayour thank god for that prouysiō. And thē wold ye get you to that man as faste as ye coulde. ¶Uery trouthe quod he. ¶Than yf y ^t man shulde tell you that Arryus and his cūpany were herytyques all and toke textis of scripture wronge ye wold bileue hym? ¶ye veryly quod he y ^t wold I. ¶I put case quod I that ye had not dowted byfore b [...]t had bene ī your self at clere poynte y ^t y ^• Arryans opynyō were the trouth / [...]et ye wolde agaynste Arrius and all hys / and agaynst your own mynd also lene vnto hys worde / whome god had beden you bylefe. ¶what els quod he? ¶what yf ye asked hym q I whythere god haue suffycyently shewed y ^t poynt in scrypture / so that yt may by the wordys of holy wrytt well and euydentlye be proued / and y ^t he tolde you ye / And that theruppon he wolde brynge in all the textys that ye had well in remem­braunce all redy / & y ^t ye layed agaynste theym all that you coulde lay for the cō trary / so ferforth that whā eche of you had layed all your textys and all your glosys that eyther of you bothe could brynge forthe tyll ye bothe confessyd y ^t neyther of ye bothe coulde eny ferther thyng fynde therin / he sayenge styll y ^t hys way were the truthe and y ^t he had by sc [...]ypture well proued yt vnto you / and your selfe on the tother side for all that euer ye had hard hym say / parcey­uyng in your owne mynde none other but that ye had by scrypture better prouyd the tother ꝑte / which wold ye now bileue / that way that as far [...]e as ye see god sayth him self in holy scrypture / or els that man whom god sente you to & bade you beleue? ¶Nay verely q he I wolde byleue hym. ¶well sayde quod I. But whether wold ye onely beleeue him that the trowth of the mater were agaynst the Arryans / or els wold you beleue hym ferther in y ^t he sayd he had so prouyd yt vnto you by scrypture. ¶I wold q he beleue hym therin also. For syth god so had cōmaunded me / & had shewed me that he had him selfe instructyd that mā in what sence y ^• scrypture were to be vnderstanden / I coud none otherwyse thynke / but that were trew / and thowgh it apperyd to myne own reason the contrary. ¶Uery well sayd q I. Now if god had sayed vnto you that ye shulde byleue that man cō ­cerning the matter selfe / & of scrypture [Page] had nothyng spokē / than wold ye haue byleuyd hym yet in the mater? wold ye not all though he shuld haue tolde you that he vnderstode no scripture at all? ¶That ys trew quod he. ¶Now yf he sholde then haue tolde you that the Arryanys were herytyques in y ^t poynte and theyre opynion erroniouse & false / ye wolde haue byleuede hym? ¶what els q he. ¶what if he had told you ther wyth quod I that he wyste nere why­ther yt myght be well proued by scrypture or not? ¶yet wolde I quod he ne­uerthelesse byleue to be trewe the ma­ter selfe that he had tolde me. ¶ what wolde you than think quod I of those textys that ye reken byfore well & plaī ly to proue the contrary? ¶I wolde q he than reken that they were mente sū other wayes thā I could vnderstand. For I could not doute but beīg trewly vnderstanden / theye coulde neuer wytnes agaynste y ^• trouh. ¶In good faith quod I ye say maruelously well. Doo ye nott quod I take yt for all one whyther god byd you do a thynge hys owne mouthe or byd you by holy scrypture? ¶yes quod he sauīg / that I take the byddinge by scrypture for the more sure. For there wot I wel god speketh & I can not be illuded. ¶Now quod I thys man that god byddeth you go to & in all thyng byleue hym wyll it make [...]ny chaunge in our mater whyther yt be man or woman? ¶No chaunge at all quod he. what yf yt were a certeyn knowen cumpany of men and women to gether quod I wold that make eny dyfference. ¶Neuer a whyt quod he. ¶Than quod I in case yt apere vnto you as I suppose it doth to you and to euery christen man els / y ^t in all poyntꝭ of fayth both in thyngys to be byleued aboue nature / and in thyngꝭ also that ar of nece [...]itie to be knowē & byleuyd / whych may be perceyued by reason geuyn vs wyth nature / god geueth vs in cōmaūdement that we shall byleue his chyrch / than are ye full answered. For than haue ye the man that ye muste nedys resorte vnto for your fynall āswer and solusyon of all poyntys and dow­tys / in eny wyse concernynge the saluacyon of your soule. of whyche poyntys no man can denye / but one of the most especiall poynte is to take in holy scripture alway the ryght sense. Or ellys yf we cannot attayne the ryght vnderstā dynge / yet than at the leste wyse to be sure that we shall auoyde and eschewe all such misse takyng as myght brynge vs in to eny damnable errour.

¶The .xxvii. chapyter

¶Thauthor prouyth that god hath cōmaūdid vs in all thyng necessary to saluacion to gyue ferme credence and full obedyence vnto his church. And a cause why god wyll haue vs bounden to byleue.

THat is trothe quod he if this may appere. But where shal it appere that god cōmaundyth vs in all such thyngys to beleue y ^e chyrch? For furste me thynkyth y ^t were a very strange maner of cōmaū [...]yng. For of the church be all we that shulde as ye say bee by god cōmaunded to beleue the chyrche / And all we to gether make the hole chyrch. And what reasō were yt than to cōmaund vs to beleue the chyrche. whych were no more in ef­fect / but to byd vs all beleue vs all / or eche of vs to beleue other. And then yf we fell at dyuers oppyniōs / why shuld the tone parte more beleue the tother / thā be beleuyd of the tother / sith bothe the partys be of the chyrch and make y ^e chyrch amōg them? sauyng that alwey [Page xlii] that parte semeth to byleue whych best and moste clerely can alledge y ^• scryp­ture for theyre opynyō. For the wordes of god must breke y ^e stryfe. He is onely to byleued & hys onely sonne of whom him self commaunded. Ipsum audite / here hym sayd the father at the tyme of hys baptysme. And therfore the mā y ^• ye speke of whome god sendeth me to / and whom he byddeth me here and byleue / ys our sauyour Cryst onely / and not eny congregacyon of men. whose wordes yf we byleue byfore y ^e wordes of god / and in the s [...]ede of the scripture of god put our truste and con [...]ydence in y ^e doctryne & ordynaūce of y ^e chyrch / it were happely to be fered / lest we fall in the reprofe that ys touched in y ^e gos­pell where is sayed / in vayne wurshup they me wyth the doctryne of mē / and where our sauyour also reproueth the scrybes & the pharesyes saynge vnto theym / wherfore do you breke & trans­gresse the cōmaūdemēt of god for your tradycyons. ¶I trust q I yet at laste we shall agre. But myche a do me thī ­keth it ys to cū to it. But syth we must as ye say and treuth yt ys / here our sa­uyour Chryste and byleue hym / ys yt ynough to here hym and byleue hym / or be we bysydes that also bounden to obay hym? ¶To obay hym also q he. For els were he better vnherd. ¶well sayd quod I. But whyther are we boū den to here hym and obay hym in som thynges or in all thinges? ¶In all thī ­ges quod he wythout excepcyō that he cōmaūdeth vs to do. ¶Thā yf Chryst quod I bydde vs byleue and obay hys chyrch / be we not boūdē so to do. ¶yes quod he? &Than may we quod [...] no more dowt to be trew what so y ^• chy [...]ch byddeth vs byleue / than the thynge y ^t our sauyour hym self byddeth vs byle­ue / yf he bydde vs here hys chyrche as his father bad vs here hym. ¶That is trouth q he yf he so do / but me thyn­keth yt were a straunge byddyng as I sayd to byd eche of vs of bileue other. ¶It seme [...] not q I so straūge a thīg to Seynt Poule. For he meruelouse effectually besecheth Chrysten people to agree to gether all in one mynde / and in the fayth to tell one tale / suffe­ryng no sectis or scismes amōg theym. whych agrement & consent cā neuer be where no mā geueth credēce to other. But amōg Christē people yt w [...]ll sone be / yf euery man geue credence to the chirch. ¶But yet q he syth all be of the chyrch of dyuerse parties / whych shall byleue whych? ¶ye take y ^• quod I for a grete dowt & a thīg very ꝑplex / whych semeth me very playn. For eyther fi [...]st y ^• chyrche hath y ^e treuth & byleue all one way tyll som one or som fewe begynne y ^t chaunge / and than though all be yet of y ^• chyrch tyll som by theyr obstynacie be gone oute or put oute / yet ys yt no [...]owt but yf I wyll byleue y ^• chyrche I must byleue theym y ^t styll byleue that way whych all y ^e hole byleued byfore / or els yf there were eny thynge y ^t was ꝑaduēture such / y ^t in y ^• church somtym was dowted & reputed for vnreueled & vnknowē / yf after y ^t y ^e holy chryche fall ī one cōsēt vppō y ^e tone syde / eyther by cōmē determynacyō at a generall coū sayle or by a ꝑfyte perswasyō & bylyefe so receyued thorough christendō y ^t the Chrystē peple thīk it a dāpnable errour to byleue y ^e cōtrary / thā yf eny wold after y ^t take y ^e cōtrary way were it one or moo / were yt fewe or many / were they lerned or vnlerned / were they ley peple or of y ^e clergie / yet cā I nothīg dowte whych ꝑ [...]e to bileue yf I wyl bileue the chirch. ¶y ^t is trouht q he. But ye ꝓue [Page] me not yet that god hath boden me by­leue the chyrche. ¶ ye sumwhat inter­rupted me quod I with your other subtylty / by whych ye wold yt shold seme an absurdytye to bydde vs byleue the chyrch / For as mych as therby ye sayd yt shulde seme y ^t we were cōmaunded nothyng els but eche to byleue other / and than in dyuerse opynyons taken we coud not wyt whyche parte shulde byleue whych. wherof syth I haue she­wed you the contrary and remoued y ^e blocke oute of the way for stumblyng / we shall I thīk sone se y ^t tother poynt / that Cryst cōmaūdith vs to byleue his chyrch. For as hys father sayd of hī self here hym / so sayd he of hys chyrch whā he sent it abrode to be spred forth. For whā he had gathered hys chyrch of hys apostles & hys dyscyples and theruppō set theym forth to preche / sayed he not vnto theym / he that hereth you hereth me? Dyd he not also cōmaunde y ^t who so wolde not here the chyrche shulde be reputed and taken as paynyms and publycanys? ¶That was q he where men wold not amende theyre lyuyng. ¶was yt not q I generall where a mā wold not amīde eny dampnable faw­te? ¶yes q he. ¶Is mysbelefe quod I none suche? ¶yes mary q he. ¶Than ys quod I the chyrche hys Iudge vppō hys byleue / to shew hym whyther it be trew or false. ¶So yt semeth quod he. ¶Hath hys lyuyng quod I no thynge a do wyth fayth? ¶How meane you y ^t quod he? ¶Thus quod I as yf Luther late a frere and hauyng now wedded a Nūne / were cōmaunded to amende hys lewde lyuyng and put away that harlot whome he abuseth in cōtynuall inceste and sacrylege vnder y ^e name of a wyfe / and he wolde say y ^t he dyd well ynough / and that theyr vowes coude not bynde theym / were he not boundē to byleue y ^e chyrche and obay therto as well cōcernīg hys bylefe as his lyuīg? ¶yes veryly quod he. ¶Thā appereth yt quod I that we be by Cryst cōmaū ­ded to here / byleue & obay y ^t chyrche as well in maters of fayth as of maners. whych thīg well appereth also by y ^• our lorde wold y ^• who so were dysobedyēt shulde be taken as a paynyme or a pu­blycane. Of whych .ii. y ^• tone offēded ī mys [...]yleue the tother in lewd lyuīg. & thus yt appereth y ^t not onely Cryst ys the mā y ^t ye be sēt vnto & cōmaūded be god to byleue & obay / but also y ^e chyrch ys the ꝑsone whom ye be by Cryste cō ­maūded to here and byleue and obay. And therfore yf ye wyll in fayth or ly­uīg or a voydīg of all dāpnable errour y ^t ye myght fall in by mysse vnderstā ­dīg of scriptur take a sure & vnfallyble way / ye must in all these thynges her [...]/byleue and obay the chyrch / whyche ys as I say the persone whom Cryst sen­deth you to for the sure solucyon of all suche doutys / as to the man in whose mouth he speketh hym selfe and the holy spyryte of hys father in heuī. ¶And surely thys ys mych to be marked. For yt ys the perpetuall order whyche our lord hath contynued in the gouernaū ­ce of good men frome the bygynnyg / y ^e lyke as our nature fyrst fell by pryde to y ^e dysobedyēce of god w ^t inordyna­te desyre of knowlege lyke vnto god / so hath god euer kept mā ī humilytye / straynīg hym w ^t y ^e knowlege & cōfessyō of hys ygnoraūnce / and byndīg hym to y ^t obedyēnce of bylyue of certayn thīges wherof his own wit wold verely wene y ^t cōtrary. & therfore are we boūdē not ōly to bileue agaīst our own resō y ^• poī ­tꝭ y ^t god sheweth vs ī scriptur / but also y ^t god techith his chirch w ^tout scriptur & [Page xlii] agaynst our owne mīde also / to gyue dylygent heryng / ferme credence / and faythfull obediēce to y ^t chyrch of chryst / concernyng the sence & vnderstādyng of holy scripture. Not dowtīg but sith he hath cōmāded his shepe to be fedde / he hath prouyded for theym holesome mete and trewe doctryne. And that he hath therfore so farre inspyred the olde holy doctours of his chyrch w ^t the lyght of his grace for our instruc [...]yō / that y ^e doctrine wherin they haue agreed and by many agys consēted / is y ^t very true fayth and ryght way to heuyn / beyng put in theyr myndes by the holy hād of hym / qui facit vnanimes ī domo / y ^t maketh y ^• chyrch of Cryst all of one mynd.

The .xxviii. chapyter

¶The messenger eft sonys obiected agaynst thys / that we shulde byleue y ^• chyrch ī any thyng where we fynd y ^e wordes of scrypture semīg play­nely to say the contrary / or byleue y ^• olde doctours interpretacyons in any necessary artycle / where they seme to vs to say cōtrary to y ^e texte. shewīg y ^t we may ꝑceyue y ^• scripture aswel as they might. & y ^e answer of y ^e author ꝓuīg y ^e authorite of y ^e old interpters & y ^e infallible authorite of y ^e chirch ī y ^• god techith it euery truthe requysite to y ^e necessite of mānys saluacyō. which he ꝓueth by a deducey ō ꝑtely depēdīg vppō naturall resō.

IT semeth me quod he that all thys goth well that we shulde byleue the chyrch as chryst / as longe as they say as Cryst sayth / for some thynkethe ment our lorde. ¶But now yf they tel me talis of theyr owne wherof Cryst neuer spake worde nor mencyō made therof in holy scrypture I may thā say w ^t y ^e ꝓphet Hieremie / nō mittebā prophetas et ipsi currebant. Non loquebar ad eds et ipsi propheta­bant / those prophetis (quod our lord) ranne forthe of theyre owne hed and I sent theym not / And ꝓphecyed of theyr owne heddes whā I spake nothyng to theym. And than how myche may I more say so / yf they say me a thynge wherof Cryste or holy scrypture sayth the contrary / shall I byleue the chyrch aboue chyrste? were that a good hu­mylyte to be obedyent more to menne than to god? More ought I me thyn­keth to byleue god aboue spekynge in hys holy scrypture hym selfe / than all the olde fathers yf they make a glose agaynste the texte. Nor they doo nott theym selfe for theyre opynyons say & wryte / that they haue theym by inspy­racyon / or by reuelacyon / or by myra­cle. But by wysedome / studye / dyly­gence / and collacyō of one texte wyth a nother. By all whych meanys men may now perceyue the sentēce of scrypture as well as they myght than. And yf ye wyll peraduenture say that grace holpe the [...]m whych I wyll well agree / than wyll I say agayne that goddys grace is not so farre worn oute yet / but y ^• yt may as well helpe vs as yt holpe theym / and so may we be for the ryght vnderstandynge of scrypture equall wyth theym / and peraduenture one ace aboue theym. wherby whan we ꝓ­ceyue that they went wrong and other after theym / shall we than call yt hu­mylyte so to captyue & subdue our vn­derstandynge / wherby god hath hap­pely geuen vs lyght to perceyue theyr errours / y ^t without thank geuyn him therfore we shall so sett hys gyfte at nought / that we shall byleue theym byfore hym selfe / & tell hym y ^t hym self bad so [...] [...] therfore me thīke where y ^• old doctours or the holy chyrche telleth me [Page] the tale that god doth / ther he byddeth me byleue theym. But where god say­eth one thynge in scrypture and they tell me a nother / yt thynkith me that I shuld in no wyse byleue theym. ¶well quod I than in sūwhat ye saye ye will bileue the chirch but not in all. In eny thynge bysyde scrypture ye wyll not / nor in the interpretacion of scrypture ye wyll not. And so where ye sayed y ^t ye byleue y ^e chyrch in sūwhat / in very dede ye beleue y ^e church ī right nought. For wherein wyll ye byleue yt yf ye byleue it not in the interpretaciō of scripture? For as touchynge the texte ye byleue the scrypture self and not y ^e chirch ¶Me thynketh q he the text ys good ynough and playne ynough nedynge no glose yf yt be well consydered & euery parte compared with other. ¶Hard yt were quod I to fynde eny thynge so playne that yt shulde nede no glose at all. ¶In faythe quod he theye make a glo [...]e to sū textys / y ^t be as playne as yt is y ^• twise two make four. ¶why quod I nedeth y ^t no glose at all? ¶I trow so quod he. Or els the deuyll ys ō yt / ¶I wysse quod I / and yet though ye wole bileue one y ^t wold tell you y ^t twise two gāders made alway foure gese / yet ye wolde be aduysed ere ye byleued hym that wolde tell you y ^t twyse two geese made alway foure ganders. For ther­ī might ye be deceyued. And him wold ye not byleue at all that wolde tell you that twise two gese wold alway make foure horse. ¶Tut quod he thys ys a mery mater. They must be all y ^t twyse twayne alway of one kynde. But gese and horse be of dyuerse. ¶well quod I than euery man that ys neythere gose nor horsese [...]th well y ^t there is one glose yet. But nowe quod I the geese and y ^e ganders be both of one kynde and yet twyse two gese make not alway foure ganders. ¶A swete mater quod he / ye wote what I meane well ynough. ¶I thynke I do quod I [...] but I thinke if ye bryng yt furth yt wyll make a nothere glose to your texte as playne as youre texte ys / and ye wyll in all holy scryp­ture haue no glose at all. And yet wyll ye haue colla [...]yon made of one texte w ^t a nother / and shew how they may be agreed to gether as thogh all that were no glose. ¶ye quod he but wold you y ^t we shulde byleue the chyrch yf yt se [...]t a glose that wyll in no wyse agree wyth y ^e text / but that it aperyth playnly that the texte well consydered sayeth clene the contrary? ¶To whō dothe y ^t apere quod I so playnly / whā yt aperyth one to you / and to the hole chirch a nother? ¶yet yf I se yt so quod he / though ho­ly doctours & all the hole chyrch wolde tell me the contrarye / me thynkythe I were no more bounden to bileue them all y ^t the scrypture menith as they take yt / than if they wolde all tell me that a thynge were whyte whych I se my self ys blak. ¶Of late quod I ye wolde byleue y ^e chirch in sum thynge. And now not onely ye wold byleue it in nothīg / but also where as god wold the church shulde be your iudge / ye wold now be iudge ouer the chirche. And ye wyll by your wyt be iudge whyther the chyrch in the vnderstādynge of holy scripture y ^t god hath wryten to hys chyrche / do iuge a right or erre. As for your white & blak / neuer shall it be y ^t ye shall se the thīg blak y ^t all other shal se white. But ye may be sure y ^t yf all other se it white & ye take it for blak / your eyene be sore deceyuyd. For y ^e chirch wyll not I thīk agree to call it other than yt semyth to thē. And mych maruayle were yt y [...] ye shuld ī holy scripture se beter thā y ^e old [Page xliii] holy doctors and Crystys hole chyrch. ¶But furste quod I ye must consyder that ye and I do not talke of one doc­tour or twayne / but of the consent and comen agrement of y ^e old holy fathers. Nor that we speke not of the doctryne of one man or two in the chyrch / but of of the comen consent of the chyrche. we speke nott also of any sentēce taken in eny text of holy scrypture / wherby ry­syth no dout or question of eny necessary artycle of oure fayth or rule of oure lyuynge / For in other bye maters may there be taken of one text .x. sensys paraduenture and all good ynough wythout warātyse of the best / But we speke of suche two dyuers and contrary sen­sys taken / as yf the tone be trew the tother must nedys be false / and that as I say concerning some necessary poynte of oure faythe or rule of oure lyuynge / whych is also dependyng vppon fayth and reducyble therto. As yf one wolde boldely breke his vow for y ^t he thought that no man were boūdē to kepe any. Sych poyntys I saye lett vs consyder they be that wee speke of. And thys re­membryd betwene vs / than wyll we sū what se what your sayng doth proue. I shall not myche nede quod I to styk wyth you in dysputīg by what meanis the scrypture ys vnderstanden / syth ye be agreed wyth nature and dylygence the grace of god must nedys go / or els no dylygence or help of nature can preuayle. Nor I wyll nothyng deny you / but that god may and wyll also / gyue hys grace now to vs as he gaue of old to hys holy doctors / if there be as mich towardnes and no more let or impedymente in our selfe than was in them. I wyll also graūt yow that we may now by y ^e same menis by whych they might than / vnderstand the scripture as well as they dyd than / and I wyll not mic [...] styk wyth you for one a [...]e better. And were it not for the synnys that we sink in / we myghte parcase vnderstande yt beter by quater tredeuce / hauīg theyr labours therin & oure owne therwyth. But syth I am so gentyll to graūt you so many thyngꝭ / I trust ye wyll graūt me thys one / that yf any such poynt of our fayth as god wolde haue mē bounden to beleue / they dyd vnderstande y ^e scripture one way and we a nother / beyng the tone to the tother so clene con­trary y ^t yf the tone were trewe y ^e tother must nedꝭ be false / ye will thā graunt [...] I say y ^t either they erre or we. ¶That muste nedys be quod he. ¶ye wyll also graunt quod I that in such poyntis as we speke of / the erroure were dampnable. For we speke of those poyntys onely / to the beleefe wherof god wyll haue vs bounden. ¶I graunt quod he. For dampnable were yt in suche case to beleue wrong. And wrong shuld they or we beleue if they or we beleued a wrōg artycle / because they or we thoughte y ^t the scrypture affyrmyd yt. And as dāpnable were yt and yet mich more / if we beleuyd a thyng wherof we beleuyd y ^t the scrypture affyrmyth y ^e cōtrary. For thē beleuyd we that the scrypture were false. ¶Thys is q I very well sayde. [...]But for the more playnnes let vs put one exāple or twayn. And what poynt rather than the ar [...]ycle towchynge the equalite ī godhed of our sauiour cryste w ^t hys [...]ather? For yf the cōtrary belef [...] were trew / than were this alway dam­nable & playne idolatry. ¶Uery trothe quod he. ¶May not quod I the tothe [...] example be the matter that we haue in hand / cōcernīg sayntꝭ reliques / imagꝭ & pylgrymagꝭ. whych thyngys yf yt be (as ye say many reken yt) ydolatrye / [Page] thā ys yt yet worse to do therin as we do / than yf our byleefe were wrong in the tothere poynte. And that as myche worse / as the sayntys or the ymagys eyther / be worse than y ^e holy manhode of Christe. ¶That ys q he very trew. ¶Thā q I let the furst point alone because therein wee be all agreed / & speke of the second yf tholde fathers toke the scryptures one way & we the contrary. Though yt myghte be y ^t we were able to vnderstād the scryptures as well as they / yet yf they so vnderstode theim y ^t thei thoght this kīd of worship not for beden but cōmaūdid & plesaūt to god / & we new men ō the tother syde thoght yt vtterly forbeden & holden for ydola­try / the tone ꝑte did not in dede vnderstand the scrypture ryght / but were in a dampnable erroure. ¶That wyll no mā deny q he. ¶I doute not now q I but y ^t your self seeth very well how many thīgys I might here lay for them to proue you y ^t they erryd nott so. Furste theyr wyttys as mych as our new mē ­nys / theyr [...]ylygēce as grete / theyr erudycyon [...] theyr study as faruent / theyr deuocion hoter / theyr nōber farr greter / theyr tyme cōtynued lenger by many agys parseueryng / the contrary oppynyōs in few & those alway sone fadyd / they taken alway for catholyke / y ^e cōtrary ꝑte for heretykys. Here myght I lay you the holynes of theyre lyfe & y ^e plentye of theyr grace well apperynge therby. And y ^t our lorde therfore ope­nyd theyr eyen & suffred & causyd them to se y ^e trothe. And albeyt he vsed therī none open myracle nor sensyble reuelacyō / wherof as ye say they none allege or pretēd for the profe of theyr opyniōs in theyr interpretacyons of holy scrypture / yet vsyd he the secret suꝑnaturall meane / by whych his grace assystent w ^t good mē y ^• labour therfore / by mociōs insensyble to them self / inclynyth theyr assent vnto the trewe syde / & that thus the old holy fathers dyd in the poynt y ^t we speke of & in such other / parceyue y ^e ryght sēce of holy scrypture so farforth at the lest wyse / as they well knew y ^t yt was not cōtrary to theyr beleefe. And here myghte I lay you also y ^t yf yt had bene otherwyse & y ^t they had therin dā nably bene deceyuid / than liuyng & dyēg in dampnable errour they coud not haue beene sayntys / as god god hathe shewyd thē to be by many a thousand miracle both ī theyr lyuys & after theyr dethys. wyth thys might I also lay & very well cōclude / that syth those holy doctors and the chyrch / be (as by theyr bookys playnely apperethe) all of one fayth in thys poynt & such other / y ^t ther by well apperyth y ^t the chyrche is in the treuth / & ys not in the vnderstandyng of y ^e scrypture y ^t spekyth of y ^e mater eny thing deceyuyd / but they clerely deceyuyd y ^t do vnderstand those textꝭ of ho­ly scrypture to the contrary. These thī [...]gys as I saye and yett many other mo myght I lay. But syth ye dyd your self put the chyrch & them both in one case / & so they be in dede / I wyll rather ꝓue you the treuth of them by the treuth of the chyrch / than y ^e treuth of y ^e chyrch by the treuthe of thē. & so semyth me good reason. For surely syth they were but mēbers of hys chyrch / god had hys spe­cyall cure vppon them moste especyall for the profyte of his churche / by whose hole corps he more settyth than by eny member therof / saynt / apostle / euangelyst / or other. And therfore must I yet ask you agayn whether the chyrch may haue eny dampnable errour in y ^e fayth by mystakīg of scripture or otherwise. ¶That ys q he sumwhat hard to tell. ¶Now quod I sumwhat I meruayle that ye remember not y ^t your self hath [Page xliiii] agred all redy / y ^t these wordꝭ of Christ spoken vnto Peter I haue prayd that thy fayth shall neuer fayle / were not ō ­ly ment by the fayth ī Peter hys owne persō / but also by the fayth of y ^e chyrch. For to hym was yt spoken as hed of y ^e chyrche? ¶yes I remember q he ryght well y ^t I agreede yt. But I remember also y ^t notw ^tstanding mine agremente ye were content y ^t we shulde enserch agayn and agayne y ^e matere otherwyse bysyde / wherin myne agrement shuld not binde me. ¶Lo quod I that had I forgottē agayne But let it thā alone for y ^e whyle and tell me this. Dyde not Chryste entende to gader a floke & congregacyon of peole y ^t shulde serue god and be hys specyall people? ¶yes quod he that ys very trouthe / For so sayethe playne scrypture of Christe in sondry placys. As where the fathere of heuen sayeth vnto Chryste in y ^e psalme / Pos­tula a me & dabo tibi gen [...]es heredita­tem tuam / aske of me and I shall giue the paynym people for thyne enhery­taunce. & many other placys. And els vndowtedly hys hole cōmīg had bene in maner frustrate & in vayne. ¶That people quod I whych shulde be ā ēherytaunce [...]yd he entende shulde endure for hys owne dayes ōly while he lyued her [...]/or els that y [...] shulde go forth & cō tynue long after. ¶Nay quod he that shall cōtynue whyle the worlde lasteth here tyll domys daye / & after in heuen eternally. ¶Shall this peple q I haue amonge theym the knowlege & vnder­standynge what he wolde they shulde do to please god wythe all? ¶ye q he. ¶why [...]her shall they quod I haue thys knowlege for a while ī the bygynnyng & than lese yt / or shall they haue it styll as longe as they contynue? ¶Here he bygā a litle to stagger. why quod I cā ye call th [...] hys peple any lenger yf they lese y ^e knowlege how to serue hym and please hym? yf they for sloth to do theyr dutye as slake seruauntys sūtyme do / yet may they mend & do beter a nother tyme. But yf they lese the knolege of theyre dutye / t [...]ā wot they nere which way to mend / As he that knoweth fornicacyon for syn / may fall by frayletye to fornycacyon. But syth he knowethe yt for nought / thoughe he sinnid more in y ^e doyng than yf he had not knowen the prohybycyon / yet doth y ^e knowlege gyue hym warnynge and occacyon of repentaunce and amendment / whych must nedys lack yf he had lost y ^e know­lege. ¶Uppō this he graūted y ^t it must nedys be that thys peple muste nedys haue alwaye the knolege how to serue and please our lorde / or els they ceaced to be hys peple. ¶Is not this peple q I called y ^e chirch? ¶yes quod he. ¶Thā the chyr [...]h quod I alway hath & [...]lway shall by your reasō haue the knowlege & vnderstādīg / how god may be seruid and plesed. ¶Trouth q he ¶Is quod I that knolege fully had w ^tout the knolege of such thingꝭ as god bīdeth vs to bileue? Nay q he. what if we knew thē ī such wise q I as we could rehe [...]se thē ō our fīgers ēdys & yet byleuyd theym not to be trewe / wolde thys knowlege serue? ¶In no wyse q he. for yf ye by­leued the to be false / thogh ye so knew thē y ^t ye could reherse theym by rowe / ye coud take no warnīg by thē to plese & serue god with thē / which is the caus [...] wherfore the chyrch shulde of necessyt [...] know thē. This is q I v [...]ry well sayd. thā sith ye graūt y ^t y ^e chyrch shall euer ē dure / & y ^t it coud not [...]dure w ^tout y ^e knolege of sich thīgꝭ as may plese god / nor thos thīgꝭ can be all known if knolege laked of those thīgꝭ y ^t god byndeth vs to bileue / nor y ^e knolege of thē eny thīg sarue to the knolege & warnīg geuē vs [Page] of goddys pleasure but yf we not only can tell theym but also byleue theym / whyche bylyefe ye graunte ys callede fayth / of thys yt cōsequently foloweth that the chyrche alwayes hathe and all ways shall haue the knowlege and by­lyefe of such thyngys as god wyll haue yt boundē to byleue. ¶That is trouth q he because god hath lefte holy scryp­ture to y ^e chyrch / and therin ys all / and y ^e chyrch byleuyth that to be trew. and therfore therin & therby hath the chirch all that warnyng and lernyng of god­des pleasure that ye speke of / wythout whych yt cā not endure. ¶what if god quod I had lefte y ^e scripture to y ^e chirch lokked vp in a close cheste / and that no man shuld loke therin / wold that haue seruyd? ¶ Nay ꝑde quod he. ¶what if he had lefte hyt open & wrytten in such wyse that no mā coud rede yt? ¶That were all one quod he. ¶what yf euery man quod I could rede yt and no man vnderstād yt? ¶As lytle wold yt serue quod he as the tother. ¶Than quod I syth yt seruyth the chyrch to lerne goddys pleasure therī / and that can yt not as ye graunte your self but yf y ^e chyrch vnderstande yt / yt foloweth of thys y ^t the chyrch vnderstandeth it. And thus euery way for the fayth and knowlege of goddys pleasure yf yt be as ye saye all knowen by the scrypture & no parte otherwyse / yet alway to this poynt ye bryng yt in the ende / y ^t the chyrch hath the sure knowlege thereof. And than yf y ^t be so / ye shall not as ye lately sayd ye shulde / in eny dyuerse textꝭ of scripture seming to make a dowtouse artycle of our fayth / and to brynge in questyone what we be bounden to byleue / after ye haue red ī scripture all that cā be red / and herd on both sydes all that can be sayd / than take whyche parte semeth to your self moste probable. Nor yf ye stand styll for all y ^t in a dowt / thā after your bytter prayers made to god for hys grace & gyde ī y ^e choyse / go take you the tone parte at aduenture and cleue therto / as though ye were sure by your confidence in god / that his grace had inclined your assēt to y ^e surer syde. But sith he hath shewyd yow playne­ly by reasone that he hathe geuyn hys chyrch in all such thyngꝭ knowlege of the trouthe / ye wyll take the sure way and put your self out of all perplexitie / yf in the poynte yt self & the scryptures that touch it / ye take for the truth that way that the chyrch tecythe you therī / how so euer the mater seme bysyde vnto your selfe or to eny man els.

The .xxix. chapyter

¶The author proueth by scrypture that god instructethe the chyrche of Chryste / in euery trouthe necessaryly requesyte for our saluacyon.

TRuly q he ye wynde yt well aboute. But yet ye made as though ye wolde haue shew­ed that god had in scrypture told me / that he had & euer wold tell hys chyrch the trouthe in all suche maters. And now ye brynge yt to the poynte / not y ^• holy scrypture tellythe me the tale but mānys reasō. And suerly as I shewed you byfore / I dare not well truste rea­sone in maters of fayth & of holy scryp­ture. ¶I bygane quod I to proue yt you by scrypture / and ye than put me out in the bygynnyng. How be yt thys reason hath scrypture for hys founda­cyon and grounde. And thogh yt sum what bilde farther theron / yet is it not reason alway to be mystrusted where fayth standyth not agaynst it / nor god sayeth not the contrary. Excepte reasō be so farr out of credēce with you that [Page xlv] ye wyll not nowe byleue hym yf he tell you that twyse twayne make foure. I wene ye wyll fare by reson as one dyd ōs by a [...]alse shrew. he sware y ^t he wold not for .xx.li. heere hym say hys crede. For he knew him for such a lyer that he thoght he shuld neuer bileue hys crede after / yf he hard yt onys of his mouth. How be yt quod I lett vs yet see why­ther god hym self in scrypture tell you the same tale or no. God tellyth you in scrypture y ^t he wold be wyth his chirch to the ende of the worlde. I thynke ye dowte not therof / but those wordys he spake to the hole chyrch that than was and that euer shalbe from thappostels dayes cōtinued tyll y ^e ende of y ^e world. ¶That ī good fayth quod he must ne­dys be so. Thā were thys ī good fayth ynough quod I for oure purpose / syth no mā dowte [...]h wherfore he wyll be w ^t his chyrch / excepte we shulde thynke y ^t he wolde be therwythe for nothynge. wherefore shulde he be wyth yt but to kepe yt & preserue yt wyth thassystence of hys gracyous presēte from spyrytu­all myschiefe specially / and of all other specyally from infidelytie and from i­dolatrye? whych was the specyall thīg from whych he called hys chirch owt of the gentyllys. whych els as for morall ver [...]ews & polytycall yf they had nott lackyd the ryght cause and ende of re­ferrynge theyre actys to god / were many of them not far vnder many of vs. Let vs go ferther. Doth he not ī y ^e .xiiii xv. and .xvi. chapyter of saynte Iohn̄ agayn and agayne repete / that after his goyng he wyll cum agayne to theym / And sayth he wyll not leue them orphanys as fatherles chyldern / but wyll cū to them agayn hym selfe? Let vs adde now therunto the wordys bifore rehersed / that he wylbe wyth theym tyll th [...] worldes ende / and yt aperyth playne y ^t he mente all thys by hys hole chyrche y ^t shulde be to the worldes end. ¶whā he sayd vnto thē I call you frendꝭ / for all that I haue harde of my father I haue made knowene to you / he spake as to hys perpetuall chyrch and not to thap­posteles alone / but if he sayed to them alone these wordys also I cōmaunde that ye loue eche other / so y ^t none shuld loue eche othere after but onely they. Now leste the thyngys that he taught theym shulde by the chyrch after be forgoten / whych was more to be dowted than of theym self that hard it / he sayd vnto theym also / These thyngys quod he haue I spoken to you abidinge here wyth you. But the [...]omforter whych is the holy goste whō me father shall send ī my name / he shall tech you all thyng / and he shall put you in mynde and re­memberaunce of all thyng that I shall haue sayd vnto you. So that here ye se that he shall agayn alway tech y ^e chirch of new / the olde lessons of Chryst. And he sayed also to theym / y ^t thys comfor­ter thys holy gost y ^• spyryte of trouth / shulde be sente to abide wyth them for euer / whych can not be mente but of y ^e hole chyrche. For the holy gooste was not sente hyther into the erthe here to dwell wythe the appostels for euer / for they dwelled not so long here. Now yf the spryte of trouthe shall dwell in the chyrche for euer / how cā y ^e chyrche erre in perceyuynge of the trouthe / in such thyngys I mene as god wyll bynd thē to know or shalbe necessary for theym to know? For onely of such thīgꝭ mēt oure lord / whan he sayed that the holy goste shall teche theym all thynge. For as saynte Poule sayeth / the manife [...]acyon and shewynge of y ^e spyryte / ys to the vtilitie & profyt. This holy spyrite [Page] also was not promysed by our sauiour chryst / y ^t he shulde onely tell hys chyrch agayne hys wordes / but he sayd fer­ther / I haue quod he besydes all thys many thynges to say to you / but ye be not able to bere theym now. But whā he shall cum y ^t is the spyryte of trouth / he shall lede you in to all trouthe. Lo our lord sayed not that the holy goost shuld write vnto his chyrch all trouth / but that he shuld lede theym by secrete insperacyon and inclynacyon of theyr hartes in to all trouth / in whyche must nedes be conceyued bothe informacyō and ryghte byleue of euery necessary artycle / and of the ryght and trew sēse of holy scrypture / as farre as shall be requysyte to conserue the chyrche from eny dampnable errour. ¶Now whan the holy goost shall by goddes ꝓmyse / be for thys purpose abydynge in the chyrch for euer / and Chryste hym selfe hath also sayd that he wyl not leue hys chyrch as orphanys / but wyll cum hym selfe / & be wyth yt vnto the ende of the world / and sayeth also that hys father ys in hym and he in hys father / and y ^t hys father and he be bothe one thynge / not bothe one persone but bothe one substaunce / and wyth the holy gooste bothe one god / than must yt nedes fo­low that to the worldys ende / there ys wyth the chyrch resydent the hole try­nytye. whose assystence beynge to the chyrche perpetuall / how can yt at any tyme fall from trew fayth to false er­rous and heresyes?

The .xxx. chapyter

¶where as y ^e messēger had thought byfore / that yt were herde to bylyue any thyng certeynly saue holy scrypture though the chyrche dyd agre therin and commaunde yt / the Au­thore sheweth that sauing for thau­thoryte of the chyrch / men coud not knowe what scrypture they sholde byleue. And here ys hyt shewed y ^t god wyll not suffre the chyrch to be deceyued in y ^e choyce of y ^e very scrypture of god from eny counterfete.

NOw ys yt I suppose well & clerely proued by scrypture the thyng that I promysed / that ys to wytt that the chyrche cā not erre in any suche substauncyall artycle as god wyl haue vs boūden to byleue. ¶But yet for as myche as ye regarde nothynge but scrypture onely / thys wolde I fayne wytte of you whyther ye byleue that chryste was borne of a vyrgyn. ¶what els quod he. ¶why by­leue you y ^t quod I? ¶The gospell she­weth me so quod he. ¶what yf yt dyd not quod I / were thā your crede oute of credence but yf he brynge wytnesse wyth hym? ¶The crede quod he ys a thynge by yt selfe. ¶yet ys yt quod I no parte of y ^e gospell as y ^e pater noster ys. And yet I thynke yf gospell had neuer bene wryten / ye wolde haue by­leued your crede. ¶So thynke I to q he. ¶And wherfore q I / but for bycause y ^e chyrch shuld haue shewed you so? But let our crede alone a whyle and go we to the gospel selfe. whych gospel telleth you y ^t cryste was borne of a vyrgyn? ¶The gospel of seynt luke quod he. ¶How knowe you y ^t q I? ¶For I rede yt so quod he in the booke. ¶ye rede q I suche a boke. But how know yow that saynt Luke made yt? ¶How knowe I quod he other bokꝭ / but by y ^t they bere the namys of theyre authors wrytē vppō them? ¶Know you yt wel therby quod I? Many bookes be there that haue false inscrypcyons / and are not the bookes of theym y ^t they be na­med by. ¶That ys trouth q he. But [Page xlvi] yet though men dyd peraduēture erre and fayle ī the name / as if he shulde re­pute a boke of Stories to be made by Titus Liuius whych he neuere made but sū other honest cūnīg mā / yet were the boke nether lesse elygaunt nor lesse trewe therfore. Nor in lyke wyse if the chyrche dyd mysse take the very name of sum euaūgelyste & gospell / yet were the gospell neuer y ^e lesse trew. ¶That ys quod I well sayde. But how be ye sure that the mater of y ^e boke ys trew? ¶Mary quod he for I am. ¶That ys quod I the reasō y ^t a mayde layeth for her owne knowlege of her maydēhed. But she coulde tell a nothere how she knoweth she hath yt / sauynge that she ys lothe to cū so nere as to be a knowen that she coulde tell how she myghte lese yt. But here ys no such fere. Tell me therfore whereby wot ye that y ^e mater of that booke ys trew? ¶I thynke quod he y ^t god sheweth me so. ¶That ys well thought quod I. But he tolde yt you not mouthe to mouth. ¶No q he. But he hath tolde yt to other in the bygynnynge or els yt was well knowen in the bygynnynge whan he wrote yt. And he was knowen and byleuyde by hys liuynge / and the myracles that god dyd for hī. And after that yt was onis knowē / the knowlege went forth fro mā to mā. And god hath so wroght wyth vs that we byleue yt bycause the hole chyrch hath alway done so byfore our dayes. ¶Now cum you quod I to the very poynte. for many thyngys hath bene trew y ^• in procys after hathe lefte to be byleuyd. And many a thing hath in the bygynnynge bene knowen for false / and yet hath after happed to be byleuyd. But the gospels and holy scrypture / god prouydeth that though percase sum of it may perishe & be loste whereby they myghte haue harme but not fall in errour (for the fayth shulde stande though the scrypturys were all gon) yet shall he neuer suffer his chirch to be deceyued in that poynt / that they shall take for holy scripture eny boke y ^t ys not. And therfore sayeth holy saynt Austē / I shuld not byleue the gospell / but yf yt were for the chyrche. And he sayeth good reasone. For were yt not for the spyryte of god keping y ^e trouth therof in hys chyrch / who could be sure whych were the very gospels? There were many that wrot the gospell. And yet hathe the chyrch by secrete instinct of god / reiectyde the remenaunte and chosen oute these foure for the sure vn­dowted trew. ¶That ys quod he sure so. ¶Thys ys quod I so sure so / y ^t Luther hym selfe ys dryuyn of necessytye to graunte thys / or els he perceyuyth y ^t there were none holde nor surtie ī scripture yt selfe / yf the chyrch myght be suffrede by god to be deceyued in y ^t poynt & to take for holy scrypture y ^t wryting that in dede were not. And therfore he confessyth that thys muste nedys be a sure infallyble grounde / that god hath geuyn thys gifte vnto hys chyrch / that hys chyrche cā alway dyscerne y ^e word of god frō the worde of mē. ¶In good faythe quod he that muste nedys be so / or els all wolde fayle. ¶Quod I than ye that wolde byleue the chyrche in nothinge / nor giue sure credence to y ^e tr [...] dycyon of the chyrch but yf yt were p [...]ued by scrypture / now se yt prouyd to you / that ye coulde not byleue y ^e scrypture but yf yt were proued to be scryp­ture by the iudgemente and tradycyō of the chyrch. ¶No quod he but when I haue lerned onys of the chyrch / that yt ys holy scrypture and the worde of god / than I bileue it better than I by­leue [Page] al the chyrche. I myght by a lyght persone sumtyme know a mych more substancyall mā. And yet whā I know hym I wyll byleue hym mych beter thā hym by whome I know hym if they varied ī a tale and were cō [...]rary. ¶Good reason quod I. But the chyrch b [...]ddith you not byleue the cōtrary of that the scrypture sayeth. But he tellythe you y ^t in such placys as ye wold better bileue the scrypture than the chyrche / there ye vnderstand not y ^e scrypture. For what so euer wordys yt spekyth / yet yt meanyth not the contrary of that y ^e chirch techeth you. And the chirch can not be deceyued in any such weghtye poynt. ¶whereby shall I knowe q he? ¶why be we at y ^e poynt yet quod I? haue we so sone forgotten the perpetuall assys­tence of the trynyte in hys chyrch / and the prayoure of Chryste to kepe y ^e fayth of hys chyrche fro faylīge / and the holy gost sen [...]e of purpose to kepe ī y ^e chirch the rememberaunce of Chrystꝭ wordꝭ and to lede them in to all trouth? what wold yt haue profited to haue put you ī [...]he rememberaunce of the assystense of god w ^t the chylderne of Israell wal­kyng wyth thē in the cloude by day / & ī the pyler of fyer by nyght in theyr erthly viage / and therby to haue prouyde you the mych more specyall assystence of god wyth hys christē chyrch in theyr spyrytuall vyage / wherein hys especy­all goodnes well declarith his tender delygence / by that he dothe vouchsafe to assyste and comforte vs wyth the cō tynuall presence of hys preciouse body in the holy sacremente? All this wolde not helpe / yf manyfeste reasone that I made you / and euydent scripture that I rehersyd you / can not yet prynte in your harte a perceyuyng that thassys­tence of god in hys chirche must nedis preserue hys chyrche frō all damnadle errours in y ^e fayth / and giue his chyrch so ferforth the vnderstandynge of scripture / that they may well perceyue y ^• no parte therof well vnderstande / stādith agaynste eny artycle that the chyrche bileuith / as ꝑcell of theyr christē fayth. ¶Naye q he I perceyue yt well whan I remember it / but it was not redy in remēbraunce.

The .xxxi. chapyter

¶In that the chirche can not erre in the choyse of the trew scripture / the author prouythe by the reasō whych the kyngys hyghnes in hys noble & most famous boke obiectith agaīst luther / that the chyrche can not erre in the necessa [...]y vnderstandynge of scrypture. And fynally thauthor in this chapyter doth breuely recapi [...]e certayn of the pryncypall poyntys y ^t be byfore proued. And therwyth endeth the fyrste booke.

yEt wold I quod I aske you one thynge wherfore thinke you wyll no [...] Chryste suffer hys chyrche to be deceyuyde in y ^e descerninge of holy scrypture frome othere wrytynge / and suffer theym to take a boke of hol [...] scrypture / that were none in dede? ¶Leste mē might quod he of sum false boke reputed holy scripture / haue grete occacyon geuyn them to cō ceyue a wronge dyctryne and wronge opinions of y ^e fayth / yf god wold suffer hys chirch to take a false deuysed boke for holy scrypture & for hys owne holy wordys. ¶ye say quod I very trouthe. Now what yf in the very scrypture he shuld suffer hys chyrche mysse take the very sentence in a matter substanciall of our fayth / were they not in lyke ꝑell to fall by false vnderstandyng ī to like errors / as they might by false wrytīg? [Page xlvii] ¶ Yes th [...]t they were qu [...] he. ¶Forsoth q [...]od I so [...] th [...]y and in myche more. For in [...] false [...]ke mys­taken for scrypture th [...]gh they [...]d yt in neuer so hygh re [...]ereine for som [...] good thynges that they foun [...] in yt / and therby sholde haue gr [...]t [...] to byleue the falfe errours wrytten in the same / yet [...]yng [...]s [...]he chyrch alwaye shall haue / the trewe faythe / fyrst in harte they sholde fynde many shyftys to kepe oute the errours. But now yf they falsely shold vnderstand the trewe scrypture / there were no waye to scape frome dampnable er­rours. And therfore may I say to you as the kyngys hyghnes most prudētly layd vnto Luther / syth god wyll not suffre hys [...]hyrche to mystake a booke of scrypture for parell of dampnable errours that myght ensue theron / and lyke parel may there ensue by the my [...] ­construynge of the sentence as by the mystakynge of the boke / yt must nedꝭ folowe that god wyll in thyngys of our fayth no more suffre theym to take a false sentence for trew / than to take a false booke for scrypture. And wyth this reason hys hyghnes cōcluded hym so clerely / that he durst neuer synnys for shame touche that poynt agayne / nor eny colour coulde lay / but that vpō hys owne confessyon in all substaun­cyall poyntys concernynge the faythe or knowlege of vertue pleasaunt to god / the chyrche hath so ryght vnder­standynge of scrypture / that yt well & trewly perceyueth / that no text therin can be ryght vnderstanden / agaynst eny artycle that y ^• chyrche byleueth for thyng to be byleued of necessytye. And this poynt durst he neuer synnys touch [...] ¶S [...]rely quod your [...]rend I [...] not though he dyde not. For this poynt is [...] [...]e cowld not / and I am here in fu [...]ly satysfyed. ¶Than he you q I satysfyed in this also / that the fayth of the chyrche is a ryght rule to ca [...]ry wyth you to the study of [...]rypture / to sh [...]pe you the vnderstandynge of the [...]e [...]tis by / and so to take theym as they maye alwayes agre therewythall. ¶ [...]e yt quod he. ¶Than are ye, quo [...] I also f [...]lly answered in thys that y ^• where ye sayd ye shold not byl [...]ue the chyrche tellyng a tale of theyr owne / but onely tellynge you [...] scrypture / y [...] nowe perceyue that in suche thyngys as we speke of / that is to wytte ne­cessarye poyntys of oure faythe / yf they tell yow a tal [...] whyche yf yt were false were dampnable / ye mus [...]e byleue and maye be sure that sythe the chyrche can not in suche thynges erre / yt is very trewe all that the chyrche in suche thyngys telleth yow. And that yt is not theyre owne worde but the worde of god though [...] yt be not in scrypture. ¶That appereth well quod h [...]. ¶Than are ye q I as fully [...]atys­fyed that where ye lately sayd that y [...] were a dysobedyēce to god & preferrīg of y ^e chyrch before hym self / yf ye shall byleue y ^e chyrch in such thyngꝭ as god in hys holy scrypture saythe hym self [...] [Page] the cōtr [...]ry / ye now perceyue yt [...] in [...] wy [...]e [...] [...]o. But syth hys chyrche in suche thy [...]gys as we [...] can [...]ot [...]rre / yt [...] that y ^e [...]ryp [...]re [...] god [...] [...]e co [...]trary to the f [...]yth of y ^e chyrch [...] ¶That is very [...] qu [...]d [...]e. ¶Than yt is as trew quod I [...]hat ye [...]e ferther f [...]lly answered in the [...]n­cypall poynt / that the scryptures layd agaīst y [...]agys & pylgrymages & wo [...] ­shyp of sayntꝭ / make no thing agaynst theym. And also that those thyngys / ymagys I meane and pylgrymagys & [...]rayeng to sayntys / are thyngys [...]od & to be had [...] honour in Crystyschyrch / syth the chyrch byleueth so. Whych as ye graunt and se cause why ye so shold graunte / can in suche poyntys not be suffred for the specyall assystēce of god and instruc [...]yon of the holy ghoost to fall in error. And so ̄e [...]e we for [...]his [...] ­ter at last wyth mych worke come [...] to [...]n e [...]de. And therfore wyl we now to dyner. And your other obiec [...]yons that y [...] haue layd / by whych ye wolde pro­ [...]e those thingꝭ reꝓuable & make them s [...]me ydolatrye / whych we deferred afore / those wyll we talke of after dy­ner. ¶By my trouthe / quod he I ha­ [...]e a nother tale to tell you y ^t all thys [...]er [...] graūted / turnyth vs yet in to as myth vncertayntye as we were in be­fore. ¶Ye q I th [...] ̄ haue we well wal̄ ­ [...]d after y ^e balade / The ferther I go y ^• more behynde. I pray you what thīg is that. For that long I to here yet ere we go. ¶Nay quod he yt were bettre ye dyne fyrste. My lady wyll I went be angry wyth me / that I kepe you so longe therfro. For I hold yt now well towarde t [...]l [...]e. And yet more angry w [...]lde wa [...]e wyth me yf I sholde ma­ [...] you s [...]t and [...] at your [...]/as yt wolde I wote well m [...] [...]n the [...] ­ter yf ys wy [...]s yt were. ¶Yf I were quod I lyke my wyfe I sholde [...] more theron now & e [...]e no me [...] for longynge to knowe. But come on th [...] and let vs dyne fyrst / and ye shal tell vs after.

¶The fyrst ch [...]pyter.

¶The mes [...]enger recapytelyng cer­tayne thyngys before proued / & for hys parte agreynge that the chyrch of Cryst can not in eny nece [...]ry ar­tycle of y ^e faythf [...]ll in eny d [...]mpna­ble errour / doth put in dowte & que­styon whyche is the very chyrch of Cryst / alledgyng that they peraduē ture whom we call heretyques wyl say that th [...]ym selfe is y ^• chyrch and not we. Wherof the author sh [...]weth the contrary / declaryng wh [...]by we may know y ^t they cā not be y ^e chyrch [...]

AFter dyner we w [...]l­ked in to y ^e gardyn. And there shortely sytting in an [...]ther / [...]egan to go forthe in ou [...] mater / d [...]y­ [...]ynge hym to shew what thynge myght that be / that m [...] ­de our lōge f [...]renone pro [...] fr [...]r [...]t / and lefte vs as vncertayn a [...] we begā. ¶Syr q he that shall I shortly shew you. Where as there w [...]s pryncypally in questy [...]n whyther worshyppyng of ymagys and relyques / and prayeng to sayntys / and goyng on pyl [...]ry [...]ges / were lawfull or not / & that I [...]t you in mynde that mē layd agaynst theym certayne textys of holy scryp [...]ure / and also sayd vnto you y ^t yt semed the textꝭ self whyche be the wordys of g [...]d [...]re of more authoryte agaynst theym thē the glo [...]ys of [...]/that in suche wyse expowne the textys as they may sem [...] to make for theym / ye layd on the o­ther syde the consent and agrement & comē catholyke fayth of the chyrche / whyche ye sayd / and in dede to say the trouth b [...]th by reason and by scrypture ye proued / that yt cowld [...] not be err [...] ­nyouse / and that the chyrch coulde not err [...] in the fayth that god wolde haue kn [...]wen and byleued. Ye proued y ^• ma­ter also by myracles. In whych whan I layd dyuers thynges mouynge men to dowte / partely leste they were not trewe / but specyally leste they were not done by god for corroboracyon of the fayth / but were per [...]ase by goddys sufferaunce done by the deuyll for our delusyon / deseruyng so to be serued by our fallynge frome the worshyppe of god hym selfe to the worshyppe of hys cre [...]turys / ye proued me yet agayne that y ^e myracles were trewe / and that they mu [...] nedys be done by god. And that ye proued me by this that yt shold ellys folowe / that the chyrche had a wronge byleue & a dampnable. Whych [...]fte [...]nys ye proued well and substaū ­cyally to be īpossyble. And for as mych as there fell in the waye / occasyon to s [...]eke of the contraryetye that semed sometyme to fall bytwene the textys of holy scrypture selfe and the comē per [...]syō and fayth of the chyrch / wher [...] I s [...]yd that yt was thought reasona­bl [...] to byleue y ^• scrypture beynge goddꝭ [...] [...]rdys rather than the wordys [...]/yt therin proued that the co­men [...]ayth of the chyrche was as well godd [...]s owne wordꝭ as was holy scrypt [...]e self / and of as grete authoryte / [...] [...]uden [...] in scrypture shold [...] to trye examyn and iudge the [...] fayth of Crystꝭ chyrch by y ^e [Page] [...]/but by the catholyque fayth [...]f Crystys chyrche sholde examy [...]e & [...]xp [...]wne the textys of scrypt [...]r [...]. And that in the study of scrypture this we­ [...] the sure waye / wherein sholde gyue y [...] sayde grete lyght the wrytyng [...] of the olde holy doctours / wherby we [...]e acerteyned that the fayth that the chyrche hath now / is the same faythe and the same poyntes that they had than of olde in euery age and euery tyme. And in this parte ye proued yet agayn by r [...]ason and holy scrypture / that the chyrche hathe by the techynge of god and the holy ghoost the ryght vnder­st [...]ndynge of scrypture / in all poyntys th [...]t are of necessyte to be knowen. And theruppon eftsonys ye deduced & proued that no texte of the scry [...]t [...]e w [...]ll vnderstanden coulde [...] the worsh [...]pynge of [...] & r [...]lyques and the sekynge of [...]/but that all these [...] be [...]ll proued good and pleasaunt [...] to god / and the myracles done in suche placys done by god / syche hys [...] so informeth and [...] hys chyrche in so grett and so [...] cyall an artycle so hyghly [...] the honour or dyshonour of god / [...] yt can not be suffred to fall to sup [...]r [...]ycyon and ydolatry in stede of faythe and honoure done [...] god. And thys is q ge as far as I [...] and effecte of al that hath [...] myght gr [...]unte th [...]t that the chyrche doth not [...]/and that the ch [...]rch h [...]th the ryght faythe / and that the chyr­che doth not mys [...] take the scrypture. And whan all thys were agreed / he myght saye that the chyrche peraduenture do [...]h not [...]yl [...]ue as ye say it doth. For he mygh [...] happely denye the chyr­che to be that people that ye take yt for / and saye that yt is the people that byleu [...]th as he byleueth / th [...]t is to wyte all th [...]se kyndes of worshyppe to be wronge / [...]d that byleueth th [...]m whō ye take for the chyrche to byleue wronge. ¶Yf he and hys company quod I be the chyrche / he must tell where hys fel [...]wes be? ¶Why so q he yf mē shol­de aske you and me where the chyrche as / we co [...]de tel no one place but ma­ny [...]. ¶Let hym quod I in lyke wyse assygne some compa­nyes th [...]t be knowen for congrega­cyons [...]o gether in dyuers countrees. ¶Why quod h [...] in the begynnyng and a good w [...]yle after / y ^e chyrche of Cry [...] in euery pl [...]ce [...]ydde yt selfe / that men [...]owlde not t [...]ll in eny [...] they were / nor [...] oute and [...]hew [...] [...] [Page xlix] [...] [Page] [...] [Page l] [...] [Page] is gone out of the gate of goddys chyrche before actuall excōmunycacyon / & fallē of the body of y ^• vyn [...]y [...]rde. And yf they be secrete / neyther professynge theyr heresyes nor actually beyng ac­cursed and cast out / they be in the chyrche but not perfytly of yt. But in such wyse ī ma [...]er therof be they / as a ded hande is rather a burden in the bodye / than veryly eny membre organe or in­strumēt therof. And therfore sayth s [...]īt Iohn̄ as I sayd before / that the here­tyques be gone out of vs / but they we­re not of vs. For yf they had ben of vs they wolde haue taryed with vs. Mea­nynge therby not as some wolde haue yt seme / y ^t a good man is not of y ^• chyr­che nor in goddys [...]auour whyle he is good / bycause he happeth to wax worse afterwarde. But he meaneth that in y ^• they wente theyre waye from vs / they shewed that they were nought in dede whyle they were w ^t vs. And [...]o though they were wyth vs / yet w [...]re they not of vs. For though heretyques & infy­delys be amōg faythfull and well by­leuynge people / yet be they perd [...] [...] of the [...]. And so it appereth as ye s [...]yd be­fore / that the chyrch of Cryst is before all the chyrches of heretyques / and that all congregacyons of heretyques haue comen out of the chyrch of Cryst ¶That is very true quod he. ¶ [...]ell quod I yf that be true as yt is in dede / thā can no [...] in Bohe [...] be y ^• r [...]ht chyrche. For the chyrch [...] we call the chirch that byleueth as [...] by [...]/was there before all [...]. And neuer a chyrch had [...]ny chyrch of [...] yet / but yt [...]as [...] by [...] [...]rch to theyre handys [...] that yt is [...] that no [...]e of all theym can be [...] chyrche / but Crystys chyrche [...] [...] ­dys be that chyrch y ^• was before theym all / and oute of whyche all they haue s [...]rongen / and synnys seueryd they [...] selfe / whyche is the chyrche y ^• all they deny not / to byleue agaynst them / the poyntys whych we byleue and they reproue.

¶The .iii chapyter.

¶The messenger moueth that y ^e ve­ry chyrch peraduēture is not the p [...] ple y ^• we take for it / but a secrete vnknowē sorte of such onely / as be by god predestynate to be saued. Wher vnto the author answereth and de­clareth that yt can not be so.

PEraduenture q he there myght be sayd / that it nedeth not to a [...] sygne eny place where the very chyrch and true crysten congregacion is. But sythe euery place is indyfferent there vnto / yt may be that all the good men and chosen people of god that [...]e predestynate to be saued / in what ꝑte so euer they be / and how so euer they be sca [...]e­ryd / here [...] and there one / here two & there two / that these be the very chirch of Cryst. And be in this world vn [...] ­ [...] as yet whyle the chyrche doth [...] w [...]nder in y ^• pylgrymage of this short lyfe. ¶Mary q I thys gere groweth [...] worse to worse. And in very dede yet is thys poynt theyr sh [...]te [...]. For fyrst they se playnly that they [...]/that the very chyrche can neyther be deceyued in the ryght fayth [...] my [...]take holy scrypture or mysvn­derstande [...]/to the introduction of in­fidelyes & false byleue. And this [...] fynde all the heretyques theym self so [...] & fa [...]/that they [...] well [...] they wolde openly and vtterly [...] al together / yt [...] not be [...]. And syth th [...]y [...] [Page li] [...] that / and as euydently se therwyth that the chyrche whyche is y ^• very chyrche in dede / [...] all theyr w [...]ye [...]/ [...] syth the chyrch can not erre in dyscernynge the trouth / yt must n [...]dy [...] felowe that they mystake theym selfe all the hole mater / & be quyte in a wrō ge way / therfore be they [...] to de­ny for y ^• chyrch the people that be kno­wen for the chyrche. And go seke a no­ther they neyther knowe what nor where / bylde vp in the [...]yre [...] chyrche all so spyrytuall that they leue therin at length neyther god nor good man. And fyrst where they say that there be none therin but they that be predesty­nate to be saued / yf the questyon were of the chyrch tryumph [...]unt in heuyn / th [...]n sayd they well. But we sp [...] of y ^e chyrch of Cryst [...] h [...]rein [...]. And therfore goth theyr [...] fa [...] wyde fro y ^• place they sholde [...]yt [...]/as heuī & erth stāde a sonder. For fyrst wolde. I wyte yf the chyrche be none but those that be prede [...]ynate / why­ther all that [...]en predestynate be membres therof. ¶Why not q he. ¶Than quod I he that [...] predestynate to be s [...] ued / whyther m [...]y h [...] or not be dy [...] tymes a synner in hys dayes. ¶What yf he may q he? ¶May he not quod I be also dyuers tymes in hys days in a wronge byleue and a false heresy / and after tourne / [...]/ [...]nd amende / & so be saued at [...] god ha [...] prede­stynate hym to be [...] ¶What th [...] q [...] [...] ¶Mary quod I for th [...]n shall yt folo­we that he shal be a member of the very chyrche and so styll cōty [...]e & neuer can be cast out beynge a s [...]a [...]ke herety­que. ¶Yet quod he is he all that whyle a quycke mēbre of the chyrche / by rea­son of goddys pre [...]stynacyon / [...] though he be not sure / yet yt is in dede sure that he is and euer shall be one of the very chyrche. ¶It is quod I sure in dede & wel knowe that he so shall be. But as sure is yt that for the why­le he is not except / that all thyng that euer shall be is all redy present in dede as yt is present to goddys knowlege. and thē were saīt Poule as good whyle he was a ꝑsecutour as whan he was apostle. And as veryly a membre of Crystys chyrche or he was borne / as he is now in heuī. ¶Well q he though that peraduenture all those that be ly­uynge and predestynate to be saued be not in yt / yet may yt be y ^t ther be none other in yt then predestynates. ¶But yt may be quod I that as men be chaū geable / he that is predestynate may be many tymes in hys lyfe nought. And he that wyll at laste fall to synne and wrechednes and so fynally caste hym selfe away / shall in some tyme of hys lyfe be good / and therfore for the tyme in goddys fau [...]re. For god [...] blameth nor hateth no man for y ^t he shal wyll / but for that malycyous wyll that he hath or hath had al redy. And thꝰ shal therby thys reason be good men oute of Crystys chyrche and nowghty men therin / faythful men out of yt and heretyques in yt / and both y ^e tone and y ^e tother wythout reason or good cawse why.

¶The .iiii. chapytre.

¶The messenger moneth y ^t though the chyrch be not y ^e nombre of folke only predestynate to blys [...]/yet may yt peraduēture be y ^e nombre of good and well byleuynge folke here and there vnknowen / whych may be peraduenture those whome we condē ­ [...] for heretyques for holdyng opynyon [Page] agaynst ymagys. wherof the author proueth the contrary.

WEll quod he yet maye yt be / y ^t the very chyrch of Cryst / is all such as bileue a right & liue wel where so euer they be / though y ^e world knowe theym not / and though fewe of theym knowe eche other. For god as saynt Poule sayth / know who be his. And Cryst sayth / y ^• agaynst his chyrch y ^• gatys of hell shall not preuayll / but the gates of hell do preuayll agaynst siners. And therfore yt appereth well that there can be no synners in hys chyrch / nor that there be none of hys chyrch but good folke. And vnto them our lorde is presente and kepeth theym frō errours / and gyueth theym ryght vnderstādyng of hys holy scryptures. And where they be forceth not / how fewe they be to gether maketh no ma­ter. For our sauyour sayth / wher soeuer be two or thre gathered to gether ī my name / there am I also among theym. And so is hys very chyrch here & there of onely good men to the world vnknowē / and to hym selfe well knowē. And though they be fewe in comparyson / yet make they about in all the worlde a good meyny amonge theym. As god sayd whan y ^e chyldren of Israell were fallen to ydolatrye and worshypped y ^e ydoll Baall so ferforth that yt semed all were in the case / and mē knewe not who where otherwyse / yet sayde oure lorde as appereth in the .xix. chapyter the thyrd boke of y ^e kyngys / I shall re­serue for my selfe .vii. M. y ^t haue not bended theyr kne before Baall. So y ^• wher y ^e synagoge and chyrch was thā / yt was vnknowen to man but yt was well knowen to god. And they were not hys chyrch that semed to be / but a company vngathered that no mā was ware of / nor wolde haue went. And so may yt be peraduenture now / that the very chyrche of Cryst is not nor many. dayes hath not ben the people that se­meth to be the chyrche / but some good mē scatered here & there vnknowē / tyll god gather theym to gether and make theym knowē / and happely those that byleue agaynst ymagys & whome we now call heretyques. ¶Thys is q I a reasō that Luther maketh hym self. By whyche he wolde brynge the very chyrch of Cryst out of knowlege / and wold put yt in dowt whyther y ^e saintꝭ that the chyrch honoureth / were good men or not. And wolde that yt myght seme peraduenture nay / but that they were happely not good. But the good men and sayntys in dede / were some other whom the worlde for theyr opē lewde lyuing reputed for nought. But where he sayth that the chyrch or synagoge of the right byleue was than vn­knowen / that is not trew. For yt was well knowen in Hierusalem and Iu­dea / though yt had ben vnknowē who were faythfull in Samaria. And the scrypture also sayth not that these .vii. M. whom he wolde l [...]ue yet in Israell that had not bowed theyr knees befor Baall / were secrete and vnknowen / but he sayth onely that such a nomber of suche folke he wolde leue. But now for our purpose sythe ye wyll haue the very chyrche a secrete vnknowen not company and congregacyō / but a dy­sper [...]led nōbre of onely good mē / wyll you that those good men whych after your rekenynge make the very chyrch / shall haue the same fayth & none other than we haue / whych be now reputed for the chyrch / or ellys a fayth and by­lyef [Page lii] dyfferent? ¶What yf they h [...] y ^e same q he? ¶Mary quod I [...] wyll your newe by [...]lded chyrch [...] thynge helpe your purpose. But they shall [...] fa [...]e conferme the worshyp of ymagꝭ / p [...]y [...]ng to sayntys / and s [...]kyng to pylgrymagys as we. And as depely con­dempne for heresy your opynyon to the cōtrarye. ¶That is very [...]outh q h [...]. But yt may be that of that very chyrch y ^t fayth & bylyef shalbe / that all thys gere is erronyou [...] and as playne ydo­latry as was y ^e worshyppyng of Baal. ¶yf that were so q I than had Cryst not kepe hym .vii. M. from y ^e worshyp of Baall in all the regyons that bere the name of crystendome / except these new folk of Saxony & Bohem whych your self gr [...]t [...] to be the herety [...]s as sectys co [...] out of the chyrch. And more than word [...]e w [...]re yt / yf all th [...] chyrch of Cryst sholde be clene [...] infydelys and heretyques and no p [...] at all therof among the grete vnchaū ­geable [...]rysten countre [...]s / whyche [...] kept theyr fayth in one cōstant [...]hy [...] ̄ deryued īto the begynnynge. For thys am I sure / that in all those regy [...] as I say / yf eny haue eny suche opynyon agaynst ymagys and sayntys / yet co­meth he to y ^e chyrch amōge hys neygh­bours / and there boweth hys knees to Baall yf the ymagys be Baall as hys neyghbours do. But go to let vs forth on a lytell ferther. And supposyng that there were som such secrete good folke as yt speke of that had y ^e ryght bylefe and were the ryght chyrch / & that they were so dyspersed a sondre y ^t they were to the world vnknowen / hath not god set an ordre in hys chyrche that some shall preche to the remenaunt for exortacyon of good lyuynge and inform [...] ­cyon wherein good lyuynge stādeth / as in fayth and good workys. ¶Yes quod he. ¶Had not Cryst quod I sact [...] m [...]te [...]al [...] to be mynistred ī hys chyrch by the preestys of y ^e same? ¶ Yes quod he. ¶ Now quod I yf some infydelys as Turkys or S [...]ysens hauyng herd of Crystys name / dyd long to knowe hys scrypture and his fayth / and herīg that there were many people that pro­fessed theym selfe for crysten mē / hole naciōs but they were al opē ydolatres and in a mysbylefe / and clerely decey­ued and begyled / and that specyally by y ^e clergye y ^t techeth theym / how be yt there were yet a fewe good folke and ryght byleuynge whyche were not de­ceyued / whych among theym be the very trewe chyrche / but who they be / or where they be / or how to aske for thē / or yf he happen on theym / yet where by to know theym that can no mā tell hym / how sholde these infydelys come to the faythe / and of whom shold they here yt. For they being warned before y ^t there were many s [...]ctys of herety­ques and but one trew chyrch / wolde neuer be so madde to lerne of theym y ^t they myght wene were wrong. And how shold they now come to the ryght whan the trew chyrch is vnknowen? ¶They myght q he take y ^e scrypture. ¶They shold quod I be therin lyke to Enuchus that coulde not vnderstande without a reder. And thā yf they toke a wronge reder of a wrong chyrch / all were ma [...]ed. And also they wold not trust the scryptures nor rekē that they had the ryght bokes of scrypture amōg false sectys / but wolde loke to receyue y ^e trew scrypture of y ^e ryght and trewe chyrch. And thus here yt appereth yf it [...] th [...]/god had lefte none ordyn [...] ­ry [Page] way for hys gospell and fayth to be t [...]ught. But let go these infidelys and speke of our self which are (yf this way were trew) as fals [...] as they [...] where be thā prechers of thys very chyrche that sholde preche and teche vs better? For yt is no chyrch yf yt haue no prechours ¶Yt hath quod he som that preche som tyme / but ye wyll not suffre theym. Ye punysshe theym and burne thē. ¶Nay quod I they be wyser thā so they [...]yll not be burned for vs / for they wyll ra­ther swere on a boke y ^t they neuer sayd so / or ellys that they wyll no more say so. And in thys appereth that there is no suche secrete vnknowen chyrche of Cryst / that hauyng such opynyons is y ^e very chyrche. For y ^e very chyrch hath euer had some that hath abydē by theyr fayth and theyr prechynge / and wold neuer go backe wyth goddys worde to dye therfore. And thys chyrch that we be of / that take your chyrch for he­retyques haue had many suche martryris therin / y ^e byleued as we do agaynst your opynyons / as appereth by the hy­storyes and by many of theyr bokes / where as of your secrete chyrche I ne­uer yet foūde or herde of eny one in all my lyfe / but he wolde forswere your faythe to saue hys lyfe. Where be also you preestys & your bysshops? For such must they haue yf they be the chyrch of Cryst. Now such can your chyrch haue none / ye be ech to other vnknowē And though some of suche chyrches haue a false opynyō that euery mā is a preest / and euery woman to / yet thys heresye false as it is wyl not serue this vnknowen chyrch. For y ^e holders of that opy­nyon do put / that no man may for all that take vpon hym to preche or medle as preest / tyll he be chosen by the con­gregacyon. And where can that be [...]t thys y [...]gynary chyrch / of whych n [...] mā know [...]h other? And where as our lord sayth / where soeu [...]r [...]e two or thre gathered to gether in my name there am I w ^t them / he spa [...]e not as thoug [...] euery two or thre what so euer they were sholde make hys chyrch / but that where so euer there came [...]o gether two or thre in hys name that be of his chyrch there is he wyth theym. And s [...] doth the one t [...]xte of the s [...]ryp [...]r [...] in y ^e gospell playnly declare / as yt is well set out and open [...]d by the holy doctour and gloryous martyr saynt Cypryan / in his epystle agaīst No [...]cyā. ¶whā our sauyour sayth also th [...]t he whyche w [...]lde not amende by hys fawte she­wed hym before two or [...] wytnes / sholde be c [...]mplayn [...]d vpp [...]n vnto th [...] chyrch / dyd he meanes secrete chyrch [...] whyc [...] no man wyst where to fynde [...] Now wh [...]n the apostle wryteth vnto the Corynthyens / t [...]t rather thā they sholde ple [...]t [...] and stryue in the lawe before the i [...]ydelys / they shold set such as were in the chyrche lytell set by / to be iudges in theyr tempo [...]ll suytꝭ / of what [...]hyrch dyde he spe [...]/of such one as no mā wyst where to seke yt? This vnknowen chyrch whych they be dre­uen to seke that be lothe to [...]nowe th [...] chyrch / wyll n [...]uer serue. But y ^e chyrch of Cryst is a chyrche well knowē. And hys pleasure was to h [...]e yt knowen and not hyd. And yt is bylded vpon so hygh an [...]yll of y ^e holy st [...]ne / I [...]ane vpon Cryst him self / that yt can not be hyd. No [...] potest absconde c [...]tas supr [...] supra m [...]ntē posit [...]/The cyte can not be hyd that is set [...]e on [...]n hyll. And he wolde haue hys faythe dy [...]ulged and spredde [...]brode openly / not alway [...] [Page liii] whispered ī hukermoker. And therfore he boūd hys pre [...]hours to stād therby & not to reuoke his word for no pain. For he sayd y ^t he dyd not lyght y ^e candel to put yt & hyde yt vnder a busshel / for so wold no mā do / but he had kīdeld a fire which he wold not shold lye & smolder as coles doth in quēche / but he wold yt shold burne & gyue lyght. And therfore foly were it to say y ^e Cryst which wold haue his chirch spred thorow y ^e world / & euery where gathered ī cōpany / wold haue yt turned to a secret vn [...]nowē single sort seue [...]ed a sōder & scatered about ī corners vnknowē to all y ^e world & to thē self to. Now where they say y ^t there is none of y ^e chyrch but only those y ^t be good folk / this wold make y ^e chyrch clerely vnknowē were the peple neuer so many & y ^e pla [...]e neuer so large. For who cā know of y ^e multitude who be good ī dede & who be nought / syth y ^t b [...]d may sodainly be mēded vnware to y ^e world / [...] y ^e good as sodainly waxē wors. Now lay they for y ^e ꝓfe of y ^e opyniō / y ^e wordꝭ of Crist / which luther allegeth also for y ^e same ētēt ī his boke y ^t he made agaīst Ambrosi [...]s Catherina / y ^t is to wyt the wordꝭ wherin our lord sayd vnto saīt Peter / y ^t agaīst his ch [...]rch gates of hel shold not puayle/by whych w [...]dꝭ Lu­ther doth (as he thīketh & sayth hī self) meruelous gayly ꝓue / y ^t th [...] cā be no mā of y ^e chyrch but he y ^t [...]. For [...] h [...]th so many folyes & fautꝭ therī / & so mych īcōuenyēce & absurdyte folowīg thervppō / y ^t it is more thā meruayl y ^t [...] child of one w [...]ꝭ study ī sophistry [...] for shame fynd ī his hart to brīge it in place for eny ernest argumēt. For fyrst yf mē deny hym y ^t y ^e gates of hell do in y ^e place sygnyfy y ^t deuyll then he cā ne­uer ꝓue it / & thā is al his reasō wyped quyte away. Now do there in dede dy­u [...]rs olde [...]mētors & doctors of y ^e chirch take ī y ^t place for y ^e gatꝭ of hel / y ^e gr [...]t [...] tyraūtꝭ & heretyques / by whose ꝑsecu­cions & heresyes as yt w [...]re by two gatys / many a man hath gone in to hell. And our sauyour ꝓmyseth ī y ^e place / y ^t neyther of those two gatꝭ / y ^t is to wyt neyther paynym tyraūt nor crystened heretyque / shold puayl agaīst y ^e chirch [...] For though they haue dystr [...]yed & sh [...]l d [...]stroy many of y ^e chyrch / yet shal th [...]y not be able to distroy y ^e chirch / but th [...] chirch sh [...]l stād & be by god pserued ī d [...] spit of all theyr teth. And thꝰ ye se how son [...] Luthers special arg [...]mēt were o­ [...]rthrowē w ^t trouth. But yf a mā wolde graūt hī y ^t y ^e gates of h [...]l dyd here sygnify y ^e deuyl / yee sh [...]ld we not nede to graūt hī y ^t y ^e de [...] as he is called of go [...] [...] of y ^e pope / ergo they be not y ^e chyrche / [Page] [...]his argumēt ꝓueth y ^t there is ī erth no [...]yrch [...]t all. For what chyrche [...] he fynde or ymagyn in erth that doth n [...] synne / & specyally yf y ^t were true y ^t him selfe sayth amōge hys other heresyes / where he holdeth sty [...]y y ^t all the good wor [...]ꝭ of good mē be sīnes / & y ^t mē sīne ī y ^t they do good? And thꝰ he wold both [...]uē y ^e chyrch to be only a secret vnkn [...] wē sort of folk y ^t do not synne / & yet he [...]ōfesseth y ^t there be none such. And so as he go [...]th about to take away the very c [...]yrch y ^t is well knowē / makynge as though he wold fynde out a better / he leueth ī cōclusyō no chyrch at all. And to such a fōde & false ende must they nedꝭ beīg yt al / y ^t wyl make yt a nōber of only such as be good mē [...] do not synne. For yf he shold be in yt alway whā he i [...] out of synne / & out of yt whā he is in synne / thā shold a mā ꝑaduēture be in yt ī y ^e mornīge & out of yt at none / & in agayn at nyght. So y ^t who were ī yt / or whā / or where yt w [...]re / who coulde [...] out of goddꝭ f [...]uour Cryst him [...]elf said to hys apostles / now be you clene but not all / & yet were they al of his chyrch Albe yt y ^t one of thē was as our s [...]uyor sayd hym self / a deuyl. Dyd I not [...]yd he [...]hese twelf of you / & one of you is a deuyll? And yf there were none of the chirch but good mē as lōg as they were good / thā had saīt Peter bē onꝭ no ꝑte of y ^e chyrch after y ^e Cryst had appoīted hym for chyef. ¶But our lord in thys hys mystycall body of hys chyrche / ca­ryeth hys mēbres / som se [...]e / som hole / & all sekely. Nor they be not for euery synne clene cast of from y ^e body / but yf they be for fe [...] of īfe [...]ciō cut of / or ellꝭ wyllīgly do departe & s [...]perate thē self as do these heretiques / y ^t [...]yther refuse y ^e chyrch wylfully thē self / or ellys for their obstinacy be put out. F [...] tyl their [...]uburne h [...]rtꝭ do shew thē īcurable / y ^e body bereth thē yet about [...]yke & noughty & ca [...] cold as they be / to ꝓue whith [...]r y ^e warmne [...]e of grace goyng th [...]rowe thys hol [...] my [...]ycall body of Crystys chyrch myght get yet & [...] sū lyfe in thē. But whā y ^e tyme sh [...]ll come y ^t thys [...] plesaunt [Page liiii] /some p [...]ynfull / to cure her.

¶The .v. chapyter.

¶The author sheweth & cōcludeth that thys comen knowē multytude of cry [...] ̄ nacyōs not cut of nor fallē of by heresy [...]s / be the very chyrch of Cryst good men and bad together.

ANd fynally to put out of que­stiō which is Crystꝭ very chyrch [...]yth yt is agr [...]ed bytwene vs & graū ­t [...]d thorow crys [...]endom / & a conclusyō very trew / y ^t by the chyrch we know y ^e scrypture / whych chyrch is y ^t by whych ye knowe [...]he scrypture? It is not this cōpany and congregacyon / of all these nacyons / that wythout faccions taken & precysyon from the remenaunt / pro­ [...]es [...]e y ^e name & fayth of Cryst? By thys chyrch know w [...] the scrypture / & thys is the very chyrch / and thy [...] hath [...]gō at Cryst & hath had hym for theyr heed and saynt Peter hys vycar after hym and heed vnder hym / & alway synnys the succes [...]ours of hym contynually / & h [...]ue h [...]d hys holy fayth and hys blys­sed sacramētys & hys holy scryptures delyuered / kep [...] and cōserued therin by god and hys holy spyryte. And all be yt som nacyōs fal away / yet lyke wyse as how many bowys so euer fall from y ^e tre / though they fall more than be left theron / yet th [...]y make no dowte whych is y ^e very tre / all though eche of theym were plāted agayne in a nother place & grew to a gretter thā y ^e stock he came fyrst of / ryght so whyle we se & wel know / y ^t all y ^e cōpanyes & sectys of heretyques & scysmatyques how grete soeuer thei grow cam out of this chirch y ^t I spak of / we know euermore y ^t y ^e heretiques be they y ^t be seuered / & y ^e chirch y ^e stocke that all they came out of. And syth that onely the chyrch of Cryst is y ^e vyne that Cryst spake of in y ^e gospell / whyche he taketh for, hys body mysty­call / and that euery braunche seuered frō y ^e tre leseth hys lyuely nouryshīg / we must nedys well know y ^t all these braunches of heretyques fallen frome the chyrch the vyne of Crystys mysty­call body / seme they neuer so fresshe & gr [...]ne / be yet in dede but wytherlyngꝭ that wyther and shall dry vp / able to seru [...] for nothyng but for the fyre.

¶The .vi. chapyter.

¶The mes [...]enger moueth / y ^• syth the chyrche is this knowē multytude of good men & badde to gether / of whō no man knoweth whych be the tone sort & which be the tother / y ^t yt may be peradueutnre y ^t the good sort of the chyrch be they that byleue y ^e wor [...]hyp of ymages to be ydolatry / and the bad sort they y ^t byleue y ^• cōtrary. Whyche obieccyon the author dooth ans [...]re and confute.

WHan I had sayd. ¶Syr q he ye haue in good faythfully sa­tysfyed me cōcernyng y ^• sure & vn [...]wted knowlege of y ^e very chyrch here ī erth. But yet thynketh me y ^e one lytell dowt remayneth for our pryncypall mater. ¶What is y ^• q I. ¶Mary [...]yr q he yt is thys / y ^t though the very fayth be in the chyrch / & the chyrch can not erre therin / nor y ^e chyrch cā not be deceyued agaynst y ^e fayth in eny texte of scryptur / nor no scrypture is there y ^t beyng well vnderstāden doth or cā do stande agaynst y ^e fayth of y ^e chyrch / & y ^t also the chyrch is none other but as ye say and as I se yt is in dede / but thys hole comen congregacyō of trysten people good and badde / not seperatynge theym self fro frowardnes / nor beyng put [...]t for theyr obstynate fawtꝭ / yet [Page] syth yt appereth well that though the ryght fayth be in y ^e chyrch / yt is not in euery man of the chyrch. And though y ^e chyrche can not erre in such thyngꝭ / yet som of y ^e chyrch may. Now s [...]meth yt to some men that yt may well per­aduenture happen / that the good men well beleuyng & vndeceyued / be those that beleue the worshyp of ymages & prayng to sayntes to be ydolatry. And on y ^e tother syde / that those whythe byleue y ^e cōtrary be that parte of y ^e chyrch that be the naughty mē / mysbyleuers & foule deceyued. ¶That were a very straung werke quod I. ye wold ryght now quod I / that in y ^e chyrch we shold [...]hynk that there were none other but good mē. Wyll ye now agre that there be therin som good men? ¶ye quod be that must nedꝭ be. ¶Well quod I why ther be they good men that do nought? ¶Nay quod he. ¶Do they well q I that do ydolatry in dede though yt be agaynst theyr hartes. ¶Nay quod he. ¶But all quod I come to chyrch and worshyp ymagys / & all pray to sayntꝭ. Wherfore yf that be ydolatry / then y ^e chyrch of Cryst is all nought. For thus do they that be of y ^e contrary syde / for fere of beynge perceyued. Also yf one do well or preche well is [...] a good mā yf he deny yt for fere? ¶Nay quod he. ¶But now q I all y ^• are of that sorte yf they happen to aduēture sōwhat & be spyed / they wyl fyrst ꝑiure thē self / and after abiure theyr opynyon so y ^t yf theyr opynyō were good / yet were thē selfe nought. ¶But yet q he yf theyr opynyons be good / than be not they so euyl in hydīg theyr entētys for fere / as they that agaynst theyr trew opyniōs do and preche openly and p [...]rsue theym [...]or sayng trouth. As som that faynted and fled fromartyrdome / were not so euyll as they that pursued them. ¶Uery trouth quod I yf these mennys opy­nyos were trew. But yet though they were trew / yet were these mē nought. ¶And y ^e tother worse quod he. ¶That is well sayd quod I. But they and the tother be y ^e hole chyrche. And yf yours be nought as ye graunt and must nedꝭ graūt they be / yf y ^e tother w [...]re nought to / thā were in the chyrche [...]one good But your self deny not but in y ^e chyrch yt must nedꝭ be / y ^t there be some good. And there can be none but eyther your parte or y ^e tother. Ergo sythe yours be nought those y ^t be good must nedꝭ be y ^e tother. But none of those y ^t be of y ^e tother could be good mē yf they were ydolaters & ꝑsued your parte for saynge y ^e trouth / & cōpelled thē to deny y ^e trouth / ergo y ^e tother ꝑte be not ydolaters / nor y ^e opynyō of your ꝑte for whyche they ꝑsue your ꝑte be not trew. And thus it appereth as me seme / that good mē of y ^e chyrch be agaynst you / & the nough­ty wyth you.

¶The .vii. chapyter.

¶y ^e author sōwhat doth corroborat y ^e tr [...]uch agaīst y ^e heresyes holdynge agaynst ymagꝭ / & [...]ecapy [...]elyng som what brefly what hath bē ꝓued / so fynessheth & ēdeth y ^e ꝓfe for his ꝑte.

ANd yet speke I nothyng of all y ^e good mē / and well [...]nowē for good mē / & holy mē / & now saintꝭ in heuen / y ^t haue cōdempned your parte and wrytten agaynst you. And your parte therfore be so sore agaīst [...] agay [...]/bycause they se theyr h [...]resyes īp [...]gned & cōdempned by theyr holy wryteigꝭ. Nor be [...]dꝭ thys haue I nothīg spokē of y ^e general coūsaylys cōdēpnīg your ꝑte by good & substa [...]cyall authoryte / [Page lv] cōprobate and corroborate by the hole body of crystēdom / led there vnto both longe before and euer synnys / thorow the s [...]crete operacyon of the holy goost / Who coulde neuer suffer (as your self agreeth) y ^e chyrch of Cryst to contynue so hole & so longe in so damnable ydo­latrye as this were yf yt were super­stycyon and not a parte of very faythe and trew deuout relygyon. Wherfore syth I haue proued you that the chyrch can not erre in so grete a poynte / nor agaynst the ryght faythe mystake the sentence of holy scrypture / and also y ^t these people that beleue ymages to be worshypped be y ^e very chyrch of Cryst / and that of hys chyrche the good and badde both dooth vse yt / and the good mē doth yt trewly / and the bad falsly / and that all the good men of olde hath allowed and vsed thys waye and con­dempned the cōtrary / whych hath also ben declared for false heresy by hole y ^• generall cōsayle of crystendom / approued by the fayth and custome of all the people besyde growīg in to such cōsent by goddis holy spyryte that gouerneth hys chyrch / I neuer nede to go f [...]ther or touch your textys or argumentys to the cōtrary. For thys syde thus proued good / yt must nedys folowe that the tother syde is nought / excepte ye haue agaynst thys eny ferther thyng to say. Whych yf ye haue neuer let to bring it forthe. For I wyll for none haste leue eny corne [...] of the mater vn [...]ansaked / as far as we can eny dowt fynde there in. ¶In good fayth syr quod he I am in thys mater euen at the harde wall / and se not how to go ferther. ¶Now I as [...]ure you q I yf I cowlde my selfe [...]ynde eny ferther obiec [...]yō / I wold not [...]ayle to bring yt in [...] But in good fayth I suppose we be waded in thys mater as ferre as we cā bothe fynde. And I am sure as ferre as euer Luther foūde or eny y ^t euer I haue sene y ^• eny thynge haue sayd or wrytten on that syde.

¶The .viii. chapyter.

¶The author entreth the answere to y ^e obieccyons that had ben before layde by the messenger / agaynst the worshyp of ymagys / and prayng to sayntys / and goynge on pylgryma­gys. And fyrst he answereth in this chapytre thobieccyōs made agaynst praynge to sayntys.

NOw therfore as I saye ferther nede I not to go. But yet wyll I somwhat touch y ^• thyngꝭ whych as ye say do moue many mē to take y ^e worshyp of ymagꝭ for ydolatry. And yt so takē & theyr opynyō so reputed / they teken yt a groūde to thynke y ^e myracles done at y ^e ymagys / or by [...] of sayntys to be yllusyōs of y ^e d [...]uyl. And fyrst wyll we begy [...] at y ^e sayntys them selfe. And by y ^e waye shall we speke of theyr relyques ymagys & pylgrymagꝭ as there shal occasiō ry [...]e in our mater. And for y ^e fyrst in good fayth sauynge that y ^e bokes & writīgꝭ of holy doetors cōdempne these mēnys heresyes / y ^• dy­spleasure & anger wherof setteth them on a fyre to [...]udy for y ^e mynyshynge of theyr estymacyō that so stande in theyr lyght / ellys wold I myth wōtet what these here ty [...]ts mette to impugne the worshyp of sayntꝭ & forbed vs to pray to them. And all [...] [Page] here vs. And yf they do / yet whyther they can helpe vs. And fynally yf they coulde / yet wold they we shold thynke yt soly to dysyre theym bycause god cā do yt better & wyll do yt [...]ouer hym self than they all. Now where they dowt whyther sayntys here vs / I metuayle wherof that dowt aryseth / but yf they thynke theym dede as well in soule as body. For yf theyr holy sowles lyue / there wyll no wyse man wene theym [...]urse and of lesse loue and charyte to men that nede theyr helpe whan they be now in heuen / than they had whan they were here in erthe. For all that whyle were they neuer so good / yet the best was worse thā the worst is now. As our sauyoure sayd by saynt Iohn̄ y ^e baptyste / that there was no womans sone gretter than be / yet the lest that was al redy in heuyn was hys better. We se that the nerer that folke drawe thytherwa [...]d / y ^e more good mynde bere they to men here. And therfore sayn [...] Stephē whan he sawe heuyn open for hym / he began to pray for theim y ^e malycyously kylled hym. And thynke we than that beyng in heuyn he wyll not vou [...]hesaufe to pray for theym that deuoutly honour hym / but hath lesse loue and charyte [...]eyng there / than he had goyng thy therward? yf the tyche mā that laye in hell had yet not onely for fears of encreace of hys owne punysh­ment by hys mothers damynacyō growyng of hys euyll ensample insy [...]ne / but also of a c [...]nall loue & [...] of blyssed charyte in heue [...]/wyll no thyng care for theyr brethren in Cryst whome they se here in thys wreched world? Now yf there be no dout as I trowe none theris / but theyr holy soules be alyue / they wold we dyd well. And as lytle dowte but that they bealyue yf god be theyr god / as he is in dede / and he not the god of dede men but of lyuyng / as our sauyour sayth in the gospell / for all men lyue styll and euer shall / that he hath taken to hym [...]nys gyuē lyue vnto / there rest [...]th thā no ferther tose but whyther they can do vs eny good or no / eyther for y ^t they cā not here vs / or for that they cā not help vs. & fyrst I me [...]uayl mych yf they thīke they cā not helpe vs. For whyle they were tere they coude as appereth in thactys of [...]hapostles. And syth im­be [...]yllyte & lacke of power is here part of our mysery / and strength of plentye of power is one grete parts of welthe / they were well forthered in that poynt yf they were now lesse able to do good to theym whom they sayne wold were holpē / thā they were before. For why­ther they be able there to do yt theym self / or onely by theyr intercessyon made vnto god / thys maketh no forse for our mater / so that by theyr meanes y ^• tone ways or the tother we take helpe by our deuocyon toward theym & pra­yer made vnto them. ¶I thynke q be they may do in dede mythe more than they myght both by power and prayer. But yt is harde somwhat to thynke / that they shold he [...]e vs and se vs / and specyally in so many placys at onys. For though they be not cyrcumscrybed in place for lac [...]e of bodyly dymensyō and men [...]ryng / yet are they and [...] so placed where [Page lvi] they be for the tyme / that they be not at one tyme in dyuerse placys at onys as sayntys be in sundry co [...]ntryes / & very farre asūdre called vppō at onys. ¶ Ye meruayle quod I and thyn [...]e yt harde to be byleued / that sayntys here vs. And I whyle we se that y ^e thyngꝭ we pray for we obtayn / meruayl mych more how men can dowt whyther the prayers be hard or not. Whā s [...]yntys were in thys world at lyberte & myght wal [...]yd the worlde about / wene we y ^t in heuē they stand tyed to a p [...]ste? But the wonder is how they m [...]y se & here in sondry placys at onys. Yf [...] two coulde no more but fele and neyther se nor here / we wolde as well wondre. Or yf we could not wondre therof by cause we co [...]lde not here therof / yet shold we be farre from eny cōceyuyng in our mynde / that it w [...]re [...] for man to se or here ferther th [...] he can fele. For we that proue yt and d [...] se and here in dede / can n [...]t yet se th [...] cause / nor in no wyse cea [...] to won­dre by what reason and meane yt may be / that I sh [...]lde se tw [...] chyrches or two townes eche of th [...] ̄ two [...] myle a sonder / & bothe twayne as farre fr [...] me as eche of theym [...]com [...] other / and measure so grete qu [...]tytyes wyth so small a me [...]sur [...] as is the lytle apple of myn eye. And of h [...]ryng m [...]ny mēnys voycis or eny [...]nys w [...]dꝭ / [...]o [...]ing at onys in to ma [...] me [...]ny [...]rys [...]an­dyng far a s [...]der / h [...]h ly [...] di [...]yculte to cōceyue. And wh [...]n all the reas [...]ns be made eyther of [...]emys s [...]t out frō [...]ur eyen to the thingꝭ that w [...] behold / or the fygure of y ^e thyngis sene / [...]typlyed in the ayre from y ^e thyng [...] to our eye / or of the [...]yre [...]rykē wyth y ^e breth of y ^e speker / and [...]qually [...]lly [...] forth in [...]undels to the eares of the herers / whan all the reasons be herd / yet shall we rather delyte to serche than be able to fynde eny thynge in these maters y ^t were able to make vs ꝑceyue yt. Now whan we may wyth our flesshly eye & ere in thys gr [...]ce b [...]dy se and here thyngys far dystaūt from vs and from sondry placys far dystaunt a sonder / mer­uayll we so mych that blyssed aungels and holy soules / beyng mere spyrytual subst [...]uncys / vncharged of all bourdy­n [...]us flessh [...] and bonys / may in doyng the same as ferre p [...]sse and excede vs & our powers naturall / as y ^e lyuely soule selfe excedeth our deedly body / nor can n [...]t byleue they here vs thoughe we fynde they helpe vs / but yf we percey­ued by what m [...]nes they do yt / as whyther they se and here vs comynge hyther to vs / or our voyce comīg hens [...] to theym / or whyther god here and se all & shewe yt theym / or whyther they b [...]h [...]ld yt in hym as one doth in a boke the thynge that he redeth / or whyther god by some other way dooth vtter yt vnto theym as one dooth in spekyng / except w [...] may knowe the meanes we wyll not ellys byleue the m [...]er? As wyse as were [...]e that wold not byleue [...] can se / bycawse he can not perceyue by what [...] he maye se. ¶Yet se I qu [...]d he no cause or nede why we shold pray [...] theym / syth god can as well & wyll as gladly b [...]th here vs and helpe [...] as eny saynt in heuē. ¶What nede y [...] quod I to praye eny physycyon to helpe your feuer / or pray and [...]ay eny s [...]geon to h [...]le your s [...]re legge / syth god can here you and helpe you bothe as wel as the best / & loueth you better and can do yt soner / and maye aforthe [...] pl [...]sher [...]h [...]tter chepe / & gyue you [Page] more for your word thā they for your mony? ¶But this is his pleasur quod he that I shalbe holpen by the meane of theym as hys instrumentys / though in dede all thys he doth hym selfe [...] syth he gyueth the nature to the thyngys y ^t they do yt wyth. ¶So hath yt quod I pleased god in lyke wyse / that we shal aske help of hys holy sayntꝭ / And pray for helpe to theym. Nor that is not a makyng of theym equal vnto god hym self though they do yt by hys wyl & power / or he at theyr ītercessiō. Though god wyll as reason is / be chyef & haue no matche / yet forbedeth he not one man to pray for helpe of a nother. And thoughe the father hath gyuen all the Iudgemēt to hys sone / yet doth he de­lyte to haue his holy sayntis pertyne [...]s of that honour / and at the day of Iud­gement to haue theym syt wyth hym. Was Helyseus made egall to god by­cause the wydowe prayed hym to re­uyue her dede sone? Were the apostles egall to Cryste bycause that they were prayd vnto for help after hys deth [...] in hys lyfe also? And many thyngy [...] dyd they at fol [...]ys prayer: And some tyme they were prayed vnto and assayed yt also / and yet coulde not do yt / but the parties were fayne to go fro theym to theyr maister therfore. And yet was he content that they were praye [...] vnto. And for profe therof suffred theyin at mennys deuout inst [...]unce and prayer / to do many myracles. And somtym [...] were they prayed to be ītercess [...]s to theyr mayster. As where they cam [...] to Cryst & sayd / Dimitte [...]llam [...] [...]a­mat post nos / dyspache thys woman for she cryeth vppō vs. And thynk you than that he beynge content & gy [...]yng men occasyon to pray to theym [...] they were wyth hym in erthe [...] he wyll be angry yf we do theym as mych worshyp whā they be wyth hym in heuyn? Nay / but I thynke on the tother syde syth his pleasure is to haue hys sayntꝭ had in honoure and prayed vnto / that they may be for vs intecessours to hys hygh mayestye / where vnto ere we presume to approche / yt becometh vs and well behoueth vs to make frendys of suche as he hath in fauoure. He wyll dysdayn / onys to loke at vs yf we be so presumpt [...]se and malapert felowes / that vppon boldnes of famyliaryte w ^t hym selfe / we dysdayn to make our in­tercessours hys especyall byloued frendis. And where saynt Poule exhorteth vs eche to pray for other / & we be glad to thīk yt well done to pray euery pore man to pray for vs / sholde we thynke yt euyll done to pray holy [...]ayntꝭ in he­uen to the same? ¶Why q he by that reasō I myght pray not only to saītꝭ / but also to euery other dede mā. ¶So [...] may ye quod I wyth good reason / y [...] ye se none other lykelyhed but that he [...]yed a good mā. And so fynde we (as I remēbre) in the d [...]alogys of sayu [...] Gregory / y ^• one had helpe by prayou [...] made vnto an holy man late de [...]eaced whych was him self yet in purgatory? So lyked yt our lorde to let the world knowe that he was in hys specyall fa­uoure / though he were yet in payne of hys p [...]rg [...]cyō. For our lo [...]de loued hym neuer the [...]/though he lefte not for hym y ^e order of hys m [...]yfull [...] Iustyce. And therfore let no mā take hys trouble or [...]y [...]ne [...] as a t [...] o [...] goddys hatered but yf he f [...]l [...] hym sel [...] [...]tud­ge and [...]s impacyēt and euyll c [...]nce [...] wyth yt. For thā is ye [...] tokē of wrath and venge [...]ce and [...] to th [...] [...]ere [...] [Page lvii] [...]s frutfull as paynfull. And in effecte noth [...]g ellys but the begynnynge of hys hell euyn here. But on the tother syde yf he take yt pacyētly yt purgeth / yf gladly yt gretly mereteth / and glad may he be that is with m [...]kenes glad of goddys punys [...]ēt. Saynt Austyn as is wrytten by Pos [...]ydo [...]ius lyenge sure seke hym selfe of an a [...]es / cured a [...]other wyth hys prayour / and yet h [...] dyed of his sykenesse hym selfe [...] where in there was to hym more mercy and fauour shewed / than yf hym selfe had ben cured to. For now in [...]ede of helth he had heuē where he shold neuer more be seke agayne. ¶Mary quod he but I haue euer herde yt sayd th [...]t we sholde not pray to eny dede mā but wyth this condycyō / yf thou be a saynt th [...] pray for me. ¶Why so q I more thā praīg to a quycke mā / where I am not boūd to say yf thou be a good man pray for [...]. But syth I may resonably thy [...] hym good whyle I knowe hym not y ^e cōtrary / so m [...]ye I thynke hym that is dede. ¶Why quod he wherof serueth canonysynge than. Yf thys be trewe I am neuer auysed to be canoni [...]ed why [...] I lyue. ¶Ye do the better qu [...]d I / nor seuē yere a [...]ter neyther. For yt w [...]ld be but a busynes for you. ¶But why be they th [...]n canonysed than quod he? ¶These quod I that be not canonised / ye may for the more part both pray for theym & pray to theym. As ye may for and to theym that b [...]n yet alyue. But one that is canonysed ye may praye to hym to pray for you / but ye maye not for hym. For as I remēber saynt Au­steyn saythe that he that prayeth for a martyr doth y ^e martyr i [...]ury. And of euery mā ye may trust well and be sel­dom certayne / but of the canonysed ye may reken you sure.

¶The .ix. chapyter.

¶The messenger yet agayne obi [...] ­cteth agaynst reliques. And putteth grete dow [...]e in canonysyng. Where vnto the author maketh answere [...]

HOw cā I quod he be sure therof [...] May y ^e takyng vppe of a mā [...] b [...]nes / and settyng his ca [...]tas in a g [...] [...]/& thā [...]y [...]ng his [...]re scalpe / make a mā a saynt. And yet are there some vnsheyned / for no man woteth where th [...]y lye. And som that mē do [...] whyther euer th [...]y had eny body at all or not. But ma [...]y to recōpence that [...] all there be som agayne that haue two bodyes / to lend one to som good felow th [...] la [...]eth. For as I sayd before somone body lyeth hole in two placys far a sonder / or ellys the mōkys of y ^e to [...] b [...] begyled. For both y ^e placys playnly aff [...]rme that ye lyeth there. And at ey­th [...]r place they shew the shryne. And in y ^e shryne they shew a body whych they say is the body and boldly byde therby that yt is yt / alledgyng olde wrytyng & myracle [...] also for y ^e profe. Now must w [...] confe [...] that eyther the myra [...] at [...]he ton [...] place b [...] false or done by the deuyll / or ellys that y ^e same saynt had .ii. b [...]dyes in dede. And thā were that in my mynd as gre [...]e a myracle as the gretest of theym all. And therfore is yt lykely sōwhere a bone worshypped for a relyq [...] of som holy saynt / that was peraduēture a bone as Chaucer sayth [...] also somethin y ^e gospel to & [...] ­pro [...]e the ph [...]rysyes for makyng full­she [...] sepulchre [...] of holy prophet [...] and makyng sh [...] of theyr g [...]ys. wh [...]r [...]by yt app [...]reth that he wold [...] worshypped and [Page] set in gay golden shrynes. And yet be­sydys this ye shal fynde many mo worsh [...]pped I wene than shryned / many shryned that ye fynde not canonysed / though ye s [...]ke vp all y ^e regestres in Rome. And whan they be shryned and can [...]nysed to / yet syth the chyrche in the [...]ony [...]acyon vse th [...] meane th [...] [...] begyle theym / for they stande to the recorde of men both of theyr lyues and of theyr myracles / whych mē may per­ [...]uenture lye / why may yt not than [...]/that the chyrch [...] he deceyued in the [...]nonysacyon. And that they may for lacke of trew knowledge byleuynge vntrew mē / canonyse for sayntys such folke sometyme as be full farre there from. I dare not say so mych as sayth saynt Austyn. For he letteth not to say playnly that many bodyes be w [...]shypped for sayntꝭ herein erthe / whose soules [...]e beryed in hel. ¶Ye haue quod I sayd many thyngys very stoutly. But yet let vs fyrst consyder where vnto al to gether wayeth. For yt stretcheth no ferther yf yt were all trewe / but that we myght be deceyued in some that we shold take for say [...]tys. An [...] yt neyther proueth y ^t there be no sayntys / whych I wote well no wyse man wyll saye / nor that yf eny be they sholde not [...]e worshypped nor prayed vnto Excepte ye wolde say that yf we myght by pos­sybylyte mystake some / therfore we sholde worshyp none. And than sholde you by that reason neuer take eny phy­sycyon / syth ye myght happen vppon [...] dogge leche for lacke of knowledge of the connyng. For in recordis of men ye myght he as well deceyued them / as h [...]re. Now suppose than fyrste th [...] of [...]yntꝭ & of [...]aly [...]/some were trew and some were false. Yet the worshyp that y [...] [...] wold we shold do to theym all / shold be bycause (that standyng as they do vnknowen and vndyscerned) ye re [...]ened theym all trew and all for goddys well beloued seruauntes. For yf ye knew of theym which were trew and whyth false / th [...] wolde ye wor­shyp the trew / and trede y ^e false vnder fote. ¶That is no dowt q he. ¶Th [...] q [...]od I yf we were begyled in some [...] I se no grete peryll growe towarde v [...] thereby. For yf there came a gret mea­ny of the kyngys frendys into your cō [...]trye / and ye for hys sake made the y [...] all grete che [...]. Yf there came amonge theym vnware to you some spyes that were hys mortall enemyes / werynge hys badge and semyng to you and so reporte [...]as hys famyly [...]frendꝭ / wheather wolde he blame you [...]or the good there ye made hys enemyes or thanke you for the good che [...]e ye made hys f [...] ̄ dys. ¶He wolde I thynke q he thāke me for the good intreaty [...]ge of theym both / syth doth semed good to me / and both had of me theyr [...]here but for they semed hy [...] frendys and for hys sake: ¶Ye say q I good reason. But I put case now that ye had an [...]lynge or ellys a playne warnyng / that som of them were hys enmyes that semed hys best frendys / but whych they were no man came tell you / what wolde you now do / make theym all chere and h [...] ­nourably entreate theym all / or elles shewyng theym that ye here say playnly that some of theym be nought / there fore dyd theym be walkynge all wyth sorow? ¶Nay quod he no dowt we [...]e yt / but that I shold l [...]ke for thanke yf I cheryshed hys enemyes for hys fren­dys / rather then despytfully to handel hys frendys [...] or hys enemyes. ¶Uery [Page lviii] well quod I. And thys were trew all though ye had warnyng that some of thē w [...]r [...] hys enmyes. But what thāke wold ye then deserue yf ye shold shake of bothe / where ye had no such [...] war­ning at all / but wold say that ye durst not make eny of theym chere / bycause ye thought that peraduēture yt myght b [...] that som were wors thā they were taken for? For in suche case be you h [...]re / ye know not th [...]t eny mā worshypped for a saynt is none / but only ye thynke that ye be not sure whether all be or som not. Yes quod [...]e saynt Austeyn as I tolde you gyueth me warnyng / that many be none. ¶Ye be q I deceyued therin / as I shall tell you after. But in y ^e meane whyl [...] marke me wel this / and let yt stande for a sure grounde / y ^t all your obiecyon yf yt were trewe / serueth not agaynst worshyppy [...]ge of sayntys or sayntys relyques / [...] the worshyppyng of such as were no saynt ys [...] no sayntys rely [...]es. And that [...] out examynacyon. For surely y ^e wordabis; wherof they toke y ^e occasyō whyche he wryteth ī y ^e fyrst boke de ciuitate dei / & repeteth agayne ī hys boke of y ^e cure and care th [...]t men sholde haue for them that be dede / those wordꝭ I say go far wyde frome all such purpose. For there he speketh onely of costely bury [...]nge / & makyng of sumptuoꝰ sepulchres / and doyng y ^e dede corps of ryche mē worldly worshyp in the caryenge for the and ent [...]erynge of the body / as ye playnly and euydently appereth by the mater y ^t he wryteth of. ¶And surely sythe oure lord neuer w [...]ld amōge hys chosen people gyue y ^e glory of hys name to a no­ther / nor neuer so suffred ydolatry a­mong th [...] iewes / but y ^• eyther [...]e forth wyth punyss [...] and pourged yt / or so [...] [Page] wyll haue hym honoured and had for hallowed in hys chyrch here in erth / & thys thyng eyther by them that hath y ^• cure of hys chyrche after suche dylygē ­ce vsed / beyng by y ^• canonysacyon de­clared vnto the people / or ꝑaduenture wythout canonysacyon growen there of (by the holynes well knowen / and myracles many sene) so sure a cōmon ꝑsuasyon / through the hoole people of chrystendom y ^t the person ys acceptyd and reputyd for an vndoubted saynt / be the bonys trāslatyd or not / hys body founden or not / al be yt by possybylyte of nature yt m [...]ught be that men were in suche thyngys deceyued as ye haue sayd / yet we boldyly may and well we ought in thys case / to trust y ^t the grace and ayde of god and hys holy spyryt assystyng hys chyrch / hath go [...]yd the iugemēt of hys mynysters / & enclyned the myndys of hys people to suche con­sent. And y ^t he hath not sufferyd them to cure in a thyng so nerely touchyng hys honor and worshyp / eyther truly to be applyed where hys wyl were yt should / vpō hym self or hy [...] holy sayn­tys for hys [...]/or to be wythdr [...]wen the use and by erronyous mystakyng of trouth [...] mete and cōuenyent to be ꝑceyued of the chyrch for goddes honor (whyche kynde of trouth god sent the holy gost to teche hys chyrch) the same worshyp to be bestowed vpon them whom he wold in no [...] haue yt / but whom he [...] nal shame. For the body [...] or not maketh no doubt of the saynt. No mā doubteth of our lady. No mā doubteth of saynt Iohan theuangely [...] though theyr bodyes be not founden. And yet yf they were / then were there I thynk no good chrystyen man but he wold be contented they were shrynyd and had in honour. ¶For where as ye wold [...] be the reuerence from all relyques by­cause that some be doubtful / in y ^• some one sayntys hed is as ye say and of som y ^• hole body shewed at two sondry p [...] cys / yt may fortu [...]e for all thys that of one hed ther may by sondry [...] and eyther parte in the comē speche of people called the hed. For at A mya [...] saynt Iohn̄s hed the baptist as mē [...] yt in talkyng / euen they that haue ben there and sene yt. But then yf they be askyd further question therof / they [...]ell that y ^e nether iowe lacheth. Thys may well happen also and so doth yt happe in dede / by some saynt of whom in .ii. dyurtse countrees be dyuers shrynes / And there be rekened & reported y ^t its eyther of them be layd the hole body & y ^t pylgrymes at neyther places do loke in to y ^t cofyn o [...] y ^e s [...]iyne to se whether yt be all o [...] pat [...]e. In some place per­adu [...]nture lay y ^• body by & some occa­syon y ^t body [...]an [...]lat [...] the [...] of olde [...] and yet the shryne shewed styll wyth som of the relyques [...]ynynge there in. yt may well happ [...] also that ther [...] were two good holy [...] in dyuerse cō trees bothe of one name. And p [...]a [...] in some place may the [...] [...]e som very relyques vnknowē and [...]ysu [...]ed. For in olde tyme [...] of infydelys dyd [...] [Page] [...] [Page] neuer can begyle them. And that is y ^e assystence of god and y ^e holy goste. For elles myght the chyrch be most easyly begyled in the receyuyng of the very scypture / wherin they take outwardly but the testymonys of [...] from mouth to mouth and hande to hāde / wythout other examynacyō. But y ^e secret meane that enclyneth theyr credulyte to con­sent in the byleuyng all in one poynte whych ys the secret instynete of god / thys is the sure means that neuer can in any necessarye poynte fayle here in Crystys chyrch. For yf yt myght / all were quyte at large. And that poynt onys taken a waye / scrypture and all walketh wyth yt. And in thys mynde as yt seemyth / was very sure and fa­stely confermyd y ^e holy Appostle saynt Poule / Whych in his fyrste epystle to the Corynthyes wryteth in this wyse [...] Obsecro vos fratres per nomen domi­ni nostri Iesu Cristi vt idipsum dicatꝭ omnes / et non [...]nt in vobis scismata / sed sitis integrum corpus eadem mēte et eadem sententia / I beseche you my brothren by the name of our lord Ihū Cryst / that you say all one thyng / and let ther be no scysmes or seuerall sectꝭ among you / but be ye one hole entier [...] body of one mynde and one sentence. Trouth is yt that he taught them and other the ryght way so fersoth / that he boldely forbode an angell of heuyn to be byleuyd / yf any wold come & preche a nother gospell. But yet in this place I note myche / that he calleth vppon them only for agrement / byddynge them only to agre all vppō one thyng / and makyth no mencyon of agrement vppon the beste and vpon the trouth / but only to auoyde all dyscorde & dyuy­syon and by comen consent exho [...]yth them to aggree all in one / meanynge therby as me thynketh / y ^t yf the chyrch of Cryst e [...]dyng well / do all agree vppō eny one thyng cō [...]ernyng goddes honour or mannys so [...]e / yt can not be but that thyng must nedes be tr [...]. For goddes holy spyrit th [...] any [...]teth his chyrch and geueth yt lyfe / wyll neuer suffer yt all consent and agree togeder vppon any [...]. And therfore wold he n [...]ue [...] [...]u [...]er y ^• chyrch so fully to consent [...] in the worshyp of sayntys and reuerence of relyques / yf yt were a thyng suche as s [...]m mē wold haue yt seme that is to wytte a thyng false and fayned. ¶Wherin as myche as ye laye to mynysshe [...] credence / that yt myght [...] seme as yt saye well ynough that some of thē [...]re [...]aynyd / yet wyst I neuer prouyd th [...]t any such so taken and by the chyrche approued / was euer yet hytherto re [...]d / eyther here in Crystys chyrch or amonge the Iewes in theyr synagoge before Cry­stys days / and yet sayntys they had in honour as patryarches and ꝓphetꝭ and theyr bodyes and relyques in re­ue [...]. Now yf of such as s [...]yd good men we neuer had [...] any for ypochrytys / albe yt yt myght be that some were suche / yet wolde we not I thynke suppose that there were any so in dede / yf we neuer had knowen yt tryed and prouyd so. And why shall we then of sayntꝭ or relyq [...]s [...] doubte & mystrust? Of whom beyng receyue [...] by the chyrch for trew / [...] neuer that I coulde [...]yt synne god wrought the worlde tryed and prouyd any of both sortys vntrue / neyth [...]r as I say in the chyrche of Cryst no [...] sy [...]go [...] of the [Page lx] Iewes / whych two sortys [...]ty [...]ere goddes chosen people. And yet [...] as well the Iewes as [...] I sayd in hon [...]r / and theyr relyq [...] in grete [...]/as [...] as well by the gospell as by the [...]lde [...]. ¶Iacob that [...]y patry [...]rche cōm [...]ū ­ded hys chyldren in [...] to [...]ary hys body to the [...]eryall out of th [...]t countrey of Egypte / and so they dyd. And I [...] also [...] that when they shoulde after de [...]rte out of Egypte / they should cary hys b [...] nys wyth them. The dede bonys of y ^• prophet [...] as the byble [...]en [...]y [...] ­neth [...]ysed a dede body to lyfe. And thynke you then that those bonys were not there honoured for holy relyques [...] ¶Nor our [...] Cryst blameth not the Iewys in the gospell for that they garneshed the sepulcres of y ^e olde pro­phetys / wyth whose honoure he was well content / but for y ^t they cōdemp­ned them selfe in folowyng the condy­cyon of them that slewethē / entēdyng to [...]yll Cryst as theyr forefathers dyd hys holy prophetys. For as for y ^e dede bodyes of the holy prophetys that god wold [...] them had in honour and re­uerēce he declared well by that he rey­sed a dede body by the [...] of y ^• dede bonys of the prophets Heliseus as I sayd you byfore. ¶Dyd not [...] l [...]d in the fyndyng of that holy relyque hys holy crosse decl [...] by myracle and ma­ke hys owne crosse knowen from the crosses of the .ii. theues by the reysyng of a dede man wyth the touche therof? Wherin ys to be notyd by the waye / y ^t there was betwen hys and theyres no notable dy [...]erence / but they nayled as he was / or ellys had yt be no doubt [...] vestures? And doubt we then whether g [...]d w [...]lde we shoulde worshyp them when he so well and aboue nature [...] ­wordeth vs for y ^e worshyp we do them [...]

¶The .x. chapyter.

¶The messengre obiecteth many thyngys agaynst pylgrymagis and relyques & worshyppyng of sayntꝭ / bycause of m [...]che superstycyous ma [...]r vsed therin / and vnlyefull pe­tycyo [...]s asked of them / and harme growynge thervppon.

[Page]S [...]r q he ye h [...]ue in my m [...]nd very well touched y ^e mater / co [...]tnynge that yt ys not in vayne to pray to sayntys nor to worshyp th [...] [...]nd to haue theyr relyques in som [...]. But syr all thys ys farre frome the g [...]ete sore, for though say [...]t y [...] m [...]y here vs and h [...]lpe vs to / and acr [...] gladde and wyllyn [...]e so to do / and god also cōtented that they and theyr relyques and ymagys also be hadde in honoure / yes [...] can neyth [...]r he nor they be content wyth the maner of the worshyp, fyrst takynge awaye hys owne worshyp in that we do them the same worshyppe in euery poynt [...] that we do to god. And second [...]ly ta­kynge theyr worshyp from them then also in that we do to theyre ymagys y ^e same y ^t we do to thēself / takīg theyr ymagꝭ for them self and so make not theym selfe onely / but also theyr ymagys felowes and matchys to god / wherwyth [...]s I haue sayde [...]fore / neyther god nor good saynt can nor good man ought to be contente and pleased. ¶ In faythe quod I therin yf yt so be ye say [...] very trewe. ¶What saye we than quod he of the harme y ^t gooth by goynge of pylgrymagys / roylynge aboute in ydlenes / wyth the ropt / reuelynge / and [...]y [...]awd [...]y / [...]l [...] ­tony / wantonnes / waste / and le [...]he­ry? Crowe ye that god and hys holy sayntys had not leuer they sytte stylle at home then thus to come seke them wyth suche worshypfull seruyce?

¶Yes surely quod I. ¶What saye we then quod he to that I spake not of yet / in whyche we do them lytell worshyp whyle we set euery saynt to hys offyce and assygne hym a crafte suche as pleaseth vs. Saynt Loy we m [...] ­ke an horsleche / and must let our horse rather r [...]ne v [...]hodde and marre hys hoo [...]e th [...] to shoe hym o [...] hys daye. Whych we muste for that poynt more relygyously kepe hygh and h [...]y then Este [...] daye. And bycawse one s [...]t [...] is to fewe at a forge / we set [...]ynt [...]polytas to helpe hym. And on saynt St [...] uyn [...] daye we must le [...] all our horses blood wyth a k [...]yf [...]/bycawse sayn [...] Stephen was kylled wyth stones. Saynt Appo [...]lyn we make [...] tothe drawer / and maye speke to her of no thynge but of fore t [...]the. Saynt Sythe women sette to seke theyr keyes. Saynt [...]oke we set to se to the grete sekenes / bycawse he had a sore. And wyth hym they ioyn [...] saynt Sebastyan bycawse he was martyred w ^t arrowes. Some seme for the eye onely. And some for a sore brest. Saynt [...]rmayn only for chyldren. And yet wyll he not onys loke at theym / but yf the mother bryng [...] wyth them a whyte l [...]fe aud a po [...] of good [...]le. And yet is he wyser thē saynt [...]ylge [...]orte / for she good sou­le is as they saye seruyd and content wyth [...]tys. Where of I can not per­ce [...]ne the reason / but yf yt be by­cawse she sh [...]lde prouyde an horse for an euyll husbonde to [...]yde to the de­uyll vppon [...] For that ys the thynge that she is so soughte for as th [...]y s [...]ye In so moche that wom [...]n hath ther­fore chaunged her name / and in ste­de of saynt Wylgefor [...] call her saynt Uncumber / bycawse they teken y ^e for a pek of otys she wyll not fayle to vn­cūber thē of theyr husbōdꝭ. Lōge wor­ke were yt to reherse you the dyust [...]e maner of many praty pylgrymagys / [Page lxi] but one or two wil I tel you / The tone Pontanꝰ spekyth of in hys dyaloges / how saynt Martyn is worshypped. I haue forgot y ^e towne / but the maner I can not forget yt is so straunge. Hys ymage is on hys day borne in proce [...]ō about all the stretꝭ. And yf yt be a fayr day then vse they as he cometh by / to cast rose water and all thyngys of plesaunt sauoure vppon hys ymage. But and it happen to [...]ayne / out poure they pyspottys vppon hys hed / at euery do­re and euery wyndowe. [...]s not thys a swete seruyce and a worshypfull wor­shyp? And thys as I saye Pontanus wryteth and telleth where yt is. But thys that I shall nowe telle yow / I dare as boldely make you sure of / as yf I hadde sene yt my selfe. At saynt Wa [...]eryes here in Pycat [...]y [...] there is a fayre abb [...]y where saynt [...]alerye was monke. And vppon afur [...]ng [...] of or two vp in a wood is there a chapel / in whych the saynt is specyally sought vnto for the stone / not onely in those partyes but also oute of Engl [...]nde. Now was there a yonge gentylm [...]n whyche had maryed a marchauntys wyfe: And hauyng a lytell wantō mo­ney whyche hym thought brennyd out the botom of hys pursin the fyrst yere of hys weddynge / toke hys wyse wyth hym and went ouer the see for none o­ther errande but to se Flaund [...]rs and F [...]aunce and [...]yde oute one somer in those coūtr [...]es. And hauyng one in his company that tolde by the waye ma­ny straunge thyngys of that pylgry­mage / he thoght he wold go somwhat out of his may eyther to se it yf it were trew / or laugh at hys man yf he fo [...]d yt false as he veryly thought sholde haue done in dede. But wh [...] they [...] in to the chapell they founde yt all trewe. And to beholde they founde yt fonder then he hadde tolde. For lyk [...] as in other pylyrymagys ye se h [...]nged vp leggys of waxe or armes or such [...] other partys / so was in that chapell all theyr o [...]ryngys that honge about the wallys / none other thynges but mennys gere and womens gere m [...] ­de in waxe. Then was there besydes thys two rounde tyngys of sylu [...]/the tone moche larger then the tother. Through whyche euery man dyde put his preuy membres at the [...]lters end. Not euery man through bothe / but som through the one and som through the tother. For they were not bothe of a bygnes / but the one larger than th [...] other. Then was there yet a monke stā dynge at the aulter that halowed cer­tayne thredys of venyce golde. And them he delyuered to the [...]ylg [...]ymes / techynge the [...] in what wyse them self or theyr frendys sholde vse those thre­dys agaynst y ^e stone. That they shold [...] knytte yt about theyr get [...]/and say I can not tell you what prayers. An [...] when the monke had declared the ma­ner the gentylman hadde a serua [...] that was a maryed man and yet a m [...] ry fel [...]we / and he thankynge the mō ke for the threde / desyred hym to [...] ­che hym how he shold kny [...]e y [...] about hi [...] wy [...]es gere [...]hy [...]h except y ^e mōke h [...]d som specyal crafte in knyttynge h [...] thought wold be [...]ō [...] bycause her gere [...] sōwhat short. It nede not to tell y [...] y ^e euery man laughed thā / saue y ^e mōk y ^t c [...]st [...] hys tynges & hys thre­dys in a grete angre & we [...] this way [...] was not [...]hys [...] Abyde by god I had al­most fo [...]g [...]ten one thynge that wolde not [...]. As thys gen­tylman [Page] and hys wyfe were knelynge in the chapell there came a good sadde woman to hym / shewynge hym that one the specyall poynte vsed in that pylyrymage and the su [...]est agaynst the [...]ne / she wyste nere whether he were yet aduertysed of. Whyche yf yt were done she du [...]ste lay her lyfe he sholde neuer haue the stone in hys lyfe. And that was she wolde haue the length of hys gere / and that sholde she ma­ke in a ware candell / whyche sholde bren [...]e vp in the chapell / and certayn prayers shold there be sayd the whyle. And thys was agaynst the st [...]ne the very shote anker. Whan he had herde her (and he was one that in ernest fered the stone) he went and asked his wyfe counsayll. But she lyke a good faythfull cry [...]ts woman loued no [...] ­the super [...]ycyons. She could abyde the reman [...]ne well ynough. But whē she h [...]de days of bren [...]ynge vp the candell / she knytte the [...]wes and ernestly blys [...]nge her. Beware in the vertue of god what ye do [...]uod she. [...]e vp quod [...]? mary god forbede. [...]t wolde w [...]t vp your [...]re vpon poy­ [...] of my lyfe. I praye you beware of suche wychecrafte. Is thys kynde of [...]y [...]s and worshyp acceptable and plesaunt vnto god and hys sayntys? [...]ow when people worshyp [...]y [...]ys in suche wyse that they make them be­lowes to god / and y [...]gys in suche wyse that they [...] thē for the [...] self / and them agayn [...]n the other syde honour them wyth / such [...] wayes that the [...] goddys were worshypped wyth no wor [...]/fynally that worst is of al / [...] to [...] vn­lofull thyngys [...] to the [...] the [...] of Chryste to spede them well in theyr to very / and haue foūde hym a name also callynge hym Dysmas I wene and hys felowe [...]ysmas to tyme wythall / thynke you not that thys gere is such amonge the people as rather were ly­kely so to prouoke god and hys sayntꝭ to dyspleasure / that the deuyll shold h [...] ue lycence & lyberty therfore to worke hys won [...]ers in delusyon of our super­styryous ydoltry / then so to lyke and content our lorde that he sholde shew myracles for the comprobacyō of that maner of worshyppynge whyche we may well percyene al treason relygion and vertue reproueth [...]

¶The .xi. chapyter.

¶The author answereth all the ob­i [...]cyons proponed by the messenger in the tenthe chapyter. And some of th [...]y [...] rowched by y ^• messenger more at large in other partes before.

YOur hole tale in e [...]erte guod I rēteynyth thre thyngys. One that the people worshyp the sayntys and theyr ymagys also wyth ly [...] ho [...] as they d [...] god hym self. [...] n [...] that they take the ymagꝭ for the r [...]ngys selfe / whych poyntys do [...]ownes to ydolatry. The thyrde is the supertycyons fasshyon of worshyppe wyth desyre of vnlefull thyngys. And [...]yth th [...] worshyp that the people do to the saynt [...] and [...]y [...]gys be f [...]rthe / y ^• conclude y ^e thyng dyspleasaunt to god and to all halowes / and that yt may the [...]y w [...]ll appere th [...]t the myracles also be [...] y ^• wor [...] (of god but y ^• delu­s [...] of y ^e deuyl. the fy [...] [...] whyth ye haue [...]ow twyse w [...] ys at o­ [...]ys sone & shortly answer [...] for yt ys not [...]. For though [...] he [...] [...] [...] yet [Page lxii] yt ys [...] trew that therfore they wor­shyp them in euery poīt lyke vnto god. ¶What poynte lacke they qu [...]d he. [...] M [...]y the chy [...]f of all quod I That ys y ^• they worshyp god wyth y ^• mynde that he ys god / whych mynd in wor­shyp ys the only thyng that m [...]th yt latri [...] and no certeyne gesture [...] [...]dyly obseruaūce. Not & we wold [...]ollow vpon the grounde vnto Cry [...]/ha­uyng ther [...]yth a mynd that he were the beste man y ^• we coulde de [...]y [...]e and thynkyng hym not god. For yf y ^• lov [...]ly maner of bodyly observaunce were y ^e thyng that wold make latri [...]/thēwer we moch ī p [...]ell of ydolatrye in our curtesye vsyd to pryncys [...]el [...]ꝭ & p [...] pys to whō we vneleas low as to god almyghty / & [...] and somme [...] to touche them / & in the p [...] hys fote. [...] prestys in euery quere be as well [...] ­fyd as y ^e [...] that yf latria y ^t ys specyal he nowe doe to god stode in such thīgys / th [...] ̄ were we grete ydola­tr [...]s / not lowe w [...]rshypdome to [...]y [...]ꝭ [...] nor [...]man neyther / but y ^e they know [...]uy [...] mē from dede stones / & tree from [...]essh & bone. And when they [...]f [...]r [...] as ye spake of our lady at our pylgryma­ges before our lady at a nother / or one [...]oode before a nother / or make theyr i [...]c [...]cyons & vowes some to y ^• t [...] and s [...] to the tother / I we [...]e yt esh [...] to ꝑceyue that they meane none other but that our lord and our lady / or our lord for our lady sh [...] with mo myracles at the one then at the other. And that they intend in theyr pylgrymage to vp syt s [...] of theym one place and som a­nother [...] or partely somtyme as y ^• place lyeth for theim as theyr de [...] ledeth [...] and y [...] not for the place / but for y ^• ye ly [...]eth one lord by [...]nyfest, m [...] [...] [Page] [...] [Page lxiii] lyue in antyete and trouble of mynde for [...]ny fer [...] of [...]/consyderyng that our father in heu [...]n ꝓuydeth meat for the very byrdys of the ayer by whome he settyth nothyng so mych a [...] he doth by vs / yet wylled not he the contrary / but we shold wyth our bodyes labour therfore / hauyng o [...]r hertꝭ all y ^e whyle in heuyn. And wylled also y ^t we sholde as [...]e yt of hym / wythout whose helpe our labour wyl not serue. And th [...]rfore is our dayly foode one of y ^e petycy [...]s of the Pater noster / the prayour that hym self taught hys dyscyples. And y ^e horse he sette not so lytle by / but that rather thē yt shold peryssh / he rekenyd yt no breche of y ^e [...]both day to pull hym out of a pyt. And therfore in d [...]d [...] me semeth the de [...]cyon to r [...]nne som­what to farre / yf y ^e smytth [...] wyll n [...]t for eny necessyte set one a sho [...] vppon saynt Loyes day / & yet lefull ynough to pray for the helpe of a poore mānys horse. But as for your teth [...] I w [...]ne yf they akyd well / ye wolde yo [...] selfe thynke yt a thyng worthy and not to symple to aske helpe of saynt Appolyn and of god to. ¶ [...] mary quod he / and of the deuyll to rather th [...]n fayle / as y ^• Lumbard dyde for the gowte. That when he had long called vppon god & our lady and all the holy company of heuyn and yet felte hym self [...] the better / he began at laste to call as [...]a [...] for helpe vnto the deuyll. And when hys wyfe & hys frendes sore ab [...]sshed and as [...]onyed rebuked hym for calling on the deuyll whych he wyst w [...]ll was naught / and yf that he holp [...] hym yt shold be for no good / he cryed ow [...]e as lowd as he could agayn / [...]/all is good that helpeth. ¶And [...]od I wen [...] wolde I qu [...]d he [...]all [...] the deuyll and all rather than ab [...] in [...]ne. ¶Nay quod I what [...] e [...]er yt say I can not thīke y [...] wold by [...] in the d [...]uyll as that Lu [...]b [...]rd dyde. Ye wolde rather fare ly [...]e a no [...]h [...]/that wh [...]n the f [...]yer apposyd hym in confes [...]on whether he [...] any thī ge wyth wytchecrafte [...] [...]ecro [...]an­cye / or had any byl [...]fe in the deuyll / he ans [...]ered hy [...]/Credere [...]n le dyabl [...] [...] [...]yr no / Io gra [...]id [...]atyge a creder [...] ī d [...] Byleue in the deuy [...] [...] he / [...]ay nay sy [...] I haue wor [...] yn [...]ugh to by­leue in god I. And so wolde I wene y ^t ye were far from all by leuyng in th [...] de [...]yll / ye haue worke ynough to by [...]leue in god. Ye haue so mych worke to byleue in hymselfe / that y [...] be loth me thy [...]k [...] to mydle mych w ^t hys sayntꝭ. ¶ [...]hen he had laug [...]ed a whyle at [...] m [...]ry [...]al [...]s / In good fayth quod I a [...] I was about to tell you / som what in dede yt is that ye say. For [...]uyll yt is / and euyll yt is sufferyd y ^e supers [...]ycyo [...]s maner of worshyp. And as [...]or that ye tolde of saynt Martyn yf yt be true / it hath [...] excuse / but that yt nothyng towcheth our mater. For yt is not [...] worshyppynge but dyspytynge and dysw [...]rshyppynge of sayntys. Tow­chynge the offrynge of brede and al [...] to saynt [...]ermyn / I se nothyng mych [...] myste therin / where y [...] [...]e s [...]me yt v [...]ed I [...]ā not tell. But I h [...] my s [...]lf [...] se [...] often tymys / and yet am I not r [...]m [...]b [...]ed y ^t euer I saw pr [...]te or che [...] fare y ^e better therfore / or [...]nys dryn [...] therof / but yt is geuen to chyldren or poore [...]olke to pray for [...] chylde [...]. And I wold wene yt [...] in suche fasshyone / to [...] vp [...]n [...] are [...] people. But [...]w as for our [...] [Page] [...] [Page lxiiii] no wise mā wyth y ^e Cryst h [...]d not comē [...]ere. Nor yt h [...]d be no ryght y ^• [...] haue left y ^e occasiō of meryt & [...] [...]e y ^e good folke wold w ^t his h [...]lp [...] deser [...]e by hys comyng / for y ^e [...] y ^• wre­ches wold tak [...] therof by th [...]y [...] owne sh [...]uthe & malyce. Nor ī [...] were yt none y ^t al worshyp o [...] s [...]yntꝭ & reuerēce of holy relyques & [...] sayntꝭ ymagꝭ by whych good [...] folke do mych meryte / we sh [...]lde ab [...] ­lysh & put away bycause som [...] a­buse it. Now touchīg y ^e euyl p [...]tyciōs / though they y ^t aske thē were as I tru [...] they be not a grete people / they be not yet so many y ^t aske euyl petycyō [...] of saī tys / as there be y ^t aske y ^e same of god hī self. For what so euer they wyl aske of any good saīt / they wyl aske of god al­so. And comēly ī y ^t wyld yrish & s [...] ̄ ī w [...] lys to as mē say when they go forth in robbyng / they blysse thē & pray [...] sēd them good spede y ^t they may [...] w ^t a good purse & do harm & take nōe. [...] we therfore fynd a faulte w ^t euery mā [...] nys prayer bycause th [...]uys pr [...] for spede in robbery? Thys hath as I say no reasō all though they were a gr [...]e peo­ple y ^t abusyd a good thyng. And where as y ^e worst y ^t ye assygne in [...] mater is y ^t as ye say y ^e people d [...] ydolatrye / in y ^t y [...] say they take y ^e ymagꝭ for y ^e saīt self or y ^e rood for Cryst hym self / whych as I sayd I thynke none doth (for some [...]ood hath no crucyfyr therō / & they by­leue not y ^t the crosse whych they sew [...]s euer at Iherusale [...]/nor y ^t yt was y ^e holy crosse yt self / & mo [...]h less [...] thīke they thē y ^t y ^e ymage y ^t hāgeth theron ys y ^e body of Cryst hymself) and all though som were so made so to thynk / yet [...] yt not as ye call yt y ^e people. For a [...]ew [...] dotyng dam [...]s make not y ^e peple. And ouer thys yf it were as ye wold h [...]ue it see [...]e an hole people in dede / yet wer [...] not a good thyng [...] to be put away for the mysuse of badde f [...]lke.

¶The .xii. chapyter.

[...]

ANd we b [...] very sure y ^t y ^e thing is good / & our way good th [...]rin / & [...]t byleue therin right / not only by resōs & authoryte by which I haue ꝓued it you more thē onys all redy / but also by y ^• all y ^e old holy sayntꝭ & doctors of Crystꝭ chirch as saīt Ier [...]/saynt Augustyn / saynt Basyle / saynt Chrisosto­me / saynt Gregory / w ^t al such other as playnly we rede in theyr [...]/dy [...] as we do therin / & byleued therof as we byleue. And syth we se what they byleued / we nede not to doubt what is be [...] y ^t we byleue. For yf eny se [...]te byleued [...] other / we be sure of [...]he [...] [...]er they / y ^t so wel bileued & lyued ther [Page] wyth / that god hath accepted them for [...]yntys / and by myracles openly declar [...]d that theyr fayth and lyuynge ly­ked hym. [...]he [...] [...] [...]n the tother syde of such as byleued other wyse [...]s were these m [...]nyfold sectys of obstynate he­retyques / we se not one a saynt am [...]ng them / nor one myracle shewed for thē. ¶I wote ne [...]e quod he wheth [...]r thys reason th [...]t ye make wolde surely sa­tysfy y ^e tother syde or no. Fo [...] men m [...]y peraduen [...]re answer you that there is m [...]ny a gloryous saynt in heuen of whom we se no myracles in ert [...]/nor happely neuer herde of theyre name. ¶That may well be quod I / & I sup­pose yt very true. ¶Maye yt not also be quod he that though yt were h [...]rde to thynke / but that of myracles s [...]me amonge so many must nedys be true / [...]t syth some also may be fayned / may yt not be that those bē fayned whych dē tolde to [...] be done by them whō ye rehersed [...] them I mene that of olde h [...]ue wrytē for yo [...]r parte / I mene, those whome y [...] [...]all the olde doctours of the chyrche / and whom the chyrch ta­ [...]th for [...]tys. ¶Thys quod I were worse then eny thynge that we spake of yet to fore. The worst was b [...]fore / that we sholde pray to no sayntys. And now ye wolde eyther that we shold ha­u [...] none / or a [...] the leste that we shold knowe none. ¶Yes quod he ye may ha [...]e sayntys and know for sayntys also many one syth thapostles time / thogh those be none whose wrytyng ye wold [...]thoryse by theyr sāctyfyeng. ¶Thē [...]all you quod I to that poynt agayn / that ye thynke yt may be that y ^e chyrch may take for sayntys and worshyp as sayntys them that ben none. ¶Sure­ly quod he the pro [...]e that y [...] h [...]ue layde vnto the contrary though yt be some­what probable / yet semeth me not very stronge nor able & suffycyent to strayne a m [...]n to consent therto. For though y ^e a [...]y [...]ence of god and hys holy spyryt wyll not s [...]ffer hys hole chyrche to ag­gre [...] to gyder in any dampn [...] ­ble err [...] yet may he suffer them well to erre in the knolege and worshyp of a saynt [...] a [...]d mystake for a saynt on y ^t were a dāpned wreche. For therī were no mo [...] daūger to mannys soule / nor no more honour taken frome god / then when the people do worshyp an hoste vnconsecra [...]e / mystakyng yt through y ^e default of an euyll pr [...]est for the sacred body of our lorde hym self. And this y [...] dowbte not but yt is somtyme done. ¶Forget not now by the way quod I that ye styll agree that god wyll not suffre hys hole chyrche to agr [...]e in eny dampnable erroure and fall in a false faythe. And therwyth remember that though yt were no dampnable erroure to take one for a saynt y ^t were none / or a bone for a relyque that were none / yet were yt a dāpnable errour to wor­shyp eny yf we sholde worshyp none at all. And therfore syth the chyrch by­leueth that we sholde worshyp them / that kynd of byleue cā be none errour / but must n [...]dys be trew: Nor y ^e kynde of worshyp can be none ydolatry / but must nedys be good and acc [...]ptable to god. And so our pryncypall mater standyng styll sure & fast / ¶We shall som­what se forther wherto your wordys wyll way and amount [...]. Y [...] deny [...] not quod I but there be som sayntys & som myracles. ¶No quod he. ¶To what purpose quod I were myracles specyally wrought by god / was yt not [...]o the entent to make hys mes [...]ng [...]rs knowē [Page lxv] [...] [Page] [...] [Page lxvi] token that the matter and substaunce of them ys trewe. For els they were as lykely to be spoken of in mo / syth of the false and lyeng sect ys be so many. And thē also myracles beyng trew & beyng done but in one of all those many com­panyes / eche calling him self y ^e church / yt ys a good profe that the same one in whych onely they be done / is onely the very tr [...]w churche of Cryste to whych hys holy spyryte & maruelouse m [...]ieste geueth hys specyall assystēce. And surely of all myracles that euer god hathe wrought [...]or hys chyrch / I se not in my mynde lyghly a more meruaylous / thē that as many sectys of heretyques as hath sprongē and parted out of Crystꝭ chyrche / and eche of them laboryng to be taken for the very chyrche / yet hath our lorde hetherto neuer suffered ney­ther the deuyll to do any wonder for theym that myght haue the colour and face of a myracle / nor as false as they be theym selfe / yet hath he not sufferyd thē hetherto not so moch to do as fayn a myracle for theyr parte. Whych is to my mynde not onely grete wonder / but also theyr confessyd falshede consy­dered / a very clere profe y ^t they coulde neuer haue ben kept from yt but by the especyall prouydence of god and hys tender cure vppon hys chosen chyrch / whyche yt hath lyked hym hether to / that myracles amonge other thyngys haue ben one good and sure marke be­twene hys chyrche and all those erro­nyous sectys that ben sprongen owte therof / and be not hys chyrch but wold seme to be. For as for Paynyms / tur­kys and sarasyns / whyche by open professyon a [...]ne of a nother flokke / and bere not the name of Cryste nor looke for hym / he suffereth the deuyl some tyme to delude w ^t wonders and meruaylys. But y ^e Iewes that styll gape afte [...] hym / theyr myracles as farre as I cā here be gone / to the entent they maye know y ^t he hath lefte thē and gyuē thē vp / whych was wont to worke all th [...] se wonders for them. Now as for he­retyques whych falsly fayne them self to be hys owne flokke / and presume to [...]ere and professe hys name / he ke­peth thē from the honoure of eny my­racles doynge / to thende th [...]t the lack [...] thereof amonge all theyr settys / and the doyng therof in hys onely chyrch / may be amonge many other thyngys one good marke and sure tokē / where by all the false sectys of theym maye be dyscerned and knowen frome hys very true chyrch / that is to say from y ^e hole congregacyon of true crysten pe­ple in thys world / whych wythout in­termyxtyon of obstynate heresyes / professe y ^e ryght catholyque fayth. ¶Now is yt not onely true that myracles be wrought onely in the chyrche / & therby do shewe whyche is the very chyrche / but also they do shewe that those holy doctors for whō god hath shewed thē / were good mē and of the right bylyef. For yf yt were as ye wold of late haue had yt seme / that yt myght peraduen [...] be so y ^t y ^e holy doctors of our fayth whō we take for sayntys / were in dede no sayntys nor sauyd soules / but happely those were saued soules & sayntꝭ in heuyn though yt were vnknowē here in erthe [...] whyche dyde teche the doctryne here that we now call heresyes / then were yt a wōderous chaung that wher as god amonge the Iewes prouyded y ^t in euery age there were som god men by theyr good lyuīg & his hygh myra­cles so notable & wel knowē to y ^e peple [...] [Page] that men had thē alwaye lyke bryght ly [...]ly starres / whose doctryne they might boldely byleue / & whose lyuyng they might surely folow / he wold now in his specyall chyrch of Cryst / not onely do nothyng lyke / but also do clene y ^e contrary. For yf he shold take y ^e waye that ye saye / to leue euer synnys thap­postles dayes / all the trewe interpre­tours of hys and theyr holy wrytyng and doctours of the very trew [...]aythe lye to the world vnknowē / & thē on y ^e tother syde set forth wyth myracles or suffer so to be set forth w ^t meruayles / y ^t his chirch shold take & accept for saitꝭ such euyl ꝑsons or ypocrytꝭ as cōstrued y ^e scrypture wronge / & euer synne hys apostles days haue taught fals errors / & led his flock out of y ^e ryght waye in a dye pathe to hell warde w ^t wycked heresyes & ydolatrye / then hath not god sent the holy goost / and hym self also taryed styll therin / to teche hys chyrch y ^• trouth as he said he wold. But he had thē holpē to begyle thē hym self / which wer īpossible for god to do / & more thā blasph [...]my for ony mā to thynke. For thys were not lyke y ^e sufferaunce of an vnsecrat host / wherof ye put y ^e sample / wherin the peoples inuyncyble igno­raūce wyth theyr deuout affeccyō may w ^tout harme to theyr soules be suffe­ryd in the thynge that seldom happeth and ēdureth for so short a whyle: But yf god wolde leue all good doctours vnknowē / and suffer hys chyrch to be deceyued with myracles and meruaylꝭ done by theym that taught heresyes & setforthe ydolatrye / then sholde hym selfe as I saye not onely suffer hys ho­nour and ryght fayth and relygyon to be perpetually l [...]st / but helpe also hym self to destroy yt. Whych who so could thynke possyble / were worse then Iu­das / and more madde then eny man in bedlem. And therfore can yt not in no wyse be / that the chyrch can be decey­ued in that they take for sayntys these holy doctours of y ^e chyrch. Nor they so beyng / can yt in ony wyse be that the doctryne wherin they cōsent and agre can be false or vntrue? Amonge which doctryne syth the thyngys wherof we speke / I mene the prayng to sayntys / the worshyp of ymagys / reuerencynge of relyques / and goyng in pylgryma­gys is a parte as by theyr bokys playnly doth appere / we may well and surely cōclude / that none of these thyngys be dampnab [...]e or dyspleasaunt to god / but thyngys hyghly to hys contenta­cyon and pleasure. And syth we fur­ther perceyue that theyr bokys be wryten in dyuers regyons and sondry [...] ­gys / we thereby well perceyue that these thyngys be parcell of the rytes vsagys and byleue of Crystys chyrch / not onely now and of late / but conty­nually from the begynnyng hetherto. And syth yt is playnly prouyd you that the churche can in no wyse be suffred of god to fall into any dampnable errour therby / yt is yet most surely cōcludyd / that these thyngys be none suche. And consequentely prouyd / that no texte of scrypture semynge to sowne to the con­trary / canne be so taken or vnderstan­den. Nor that the chyrch cānot in pre­iudyce of the faythe mysse vnderstand the scrypture. And that the substācyall poyntys of the faythe therefore lernyd of the chyrch / is one of the surest rules that can be founden for the ryghte in­terpretacyon of holye scrypture. And that no secte of heretyques can bee the church of Cryste / but that once churche [Page lxvii] ys y ^• very chyrch. And yt is also clerely proued y ^t the mater of myracles therin dayly done / is neyther feyned by men nor done by the deuyll / but onely by y ^• myghty hand of god. And suche obiec­cyons as ye layde vnto the contrary of eny poynt aforsayde / be as farre as I can se suffycyently answerd / excepte y ^t ye haue eny forther obieccyon to laye therin. Whyche yf ye haue ye gette no thanke to spare. ¶Wherunto he sayd & sware therwyth that he so fully felte hym self answerd and cōtēted therin / that he thought hym selfe able therw ^t to content and satysfye eny man / that he shold happen to mete wyth / y ^t wold holde the contrary. Whervppon for y ^t day we departed tyl a nother tyme / in whyche we appoynted to pervse the remanaunt of the thyngys that he had in the begyn [...]yng purposed.

¶The fyrst chapyter.

¶The messenger hauyng in y ^e mea­ne whyle ben at the vnyuersyte / sheweth vnto the author an obieccyon whych he lernyd there / agaynst one poynt proued in the fyrst boke / that is to wyt that in y ^e necessary poyntꝭ of the fayth / egall credence is to be gyuen to the chyrch and to the scry­pture. Whych obieccyon on the author answereth and dyssolueth.

ABout for tenyght after your frend came agayn in a mornīg newe comen from y ^• vnyuersyte / where he was as ye wote at lernyng ere he cā at you. And there hadde he now as he sayd vysyted som of his olde acquayn­taunce. And vppon occasyon rysynge in cōmunycacyon / had agayne repeted wyth some of them very fresshe lerned men / good parte of our foremare dys­ceptacyon & reasonynge / had bytwene vs before his departyng. Whych as he sayd they toke grete pleasure in / and mych wysshed to haue bē present there at. But surely he sayd that some of thē semed to take very sore to hart / y ^e hard handelyng of y ^e man that ye wryte of / and the burnyng of the new testamēt / and the forbedynge of Luthers bokys to be redde / whych were as som of thē thought / not all thynge so bad as they were made for. And fynally touchyng the burning of heretyques / there were some that thought the clergye therin far out of ryght ordre of charyte. ¶I am q I very glad y ^t yt hath ben your happe to be [...]here. Not so much for eny thynge that ye haue shewed thē of our cōmunycacyō had all redy concernyng the prayng of sayntys / worshypyng of ymages and relyques / and goynge in pylgrymage / wherin I thynke ye told them no newelie / for I doute not but they cowlde haue tolde you more of that maters them selfe than ye haue herd or could here of me / as for that I thynke that amonge them beyng as ye say so well lerned / ye h [...]e eyther herd somwhat wherby ye be in some parte of these maters that we shalt speke of all [...]dy [...]a [...]y [...]fyed / wherby our busy­ [...]esse [...]h [...]in may be the shorter / or ellꝭ ye be the mo [...] [...]trong [...]ly [...]ted for the tother parte / wherby our dysputa­cyon shalbe the fuller / and the maters the more pl [...]ly [...]/for y ^• more ample satysfaccyō of such as your selfe or your mayster shall hereafter happē to fynde in eny dowt of these thyngys that we shall now towche and treate of [...] ¶In dede quod he somwhat haue they shewed me theyr myndys therin / as in some parte of the maters ye shal here whan we happe to come to them. ¶That shall I gladly here quod I / and shape you such answere as my pore wytte wyll serue me. But yet I praye you be playne wyth me in one thynge. Were they satysfayed and helde them self cōtent in those thyngys that were at last wyth myche worke agreed by­twene vs? ¶In good faythe quod he to say the trouthe / all were saue one / & he in all thynge saue one. And to your grete prayse and hygh cōmendacyon / [Page lxviii] they sayd that in these maters [...] ¶Nay q I let theyr prayse passe lest ye make me to prowd. But I pray you tell me / not whych one myslyked one thynge / but what one thyng yt was / and why he myslyked ye. ¶Surely quod he for ought that I could bende vppon hym / he coulde neuer agree that the fayth of the chyrch out of scrypture / shold be as s [...]re and bynde vs to y ^e bylefe therof / as y ^e wordys of holy scrypture. ¶Why quod I yf ye remēbred well what we sayde / ye had ynough to proue hym y ^t. ¶Trouth is yt quod he so had I and so dyde I / and in suche wyse that dyuers wayes I brought hym to the bay / y ^t he wyst not how to voyde. But than sayde he to me y ^t he wolde not do wyth me as I had dont wyth you. Nor yt was he sayd no wysdō for a mā agaīst hys aduersarye to vse alwaye the buc­kler hand. For so must all the parell be his / & hys aduersary stād ī surety. But on the tother syde yf he vse the sworde therwyth and stryke amonge / and dryue y ^• tother to hys defēce / so may he hap to put hym in half the parell. And lyke wyse he sayd that yf I proued my ꝑte so clerely to hym that he could not say nay / yet yf I wolde agayne answere hym another whyle / he myght perad­uenture brynge me to the same poynt on the tother syde / and than shold the mater stande yet at the large. For of two c [...]ntraryes yf bothe the partes be pro­ued / than stande they bothe vnproued. And therfore quod he I praye you an­swer me this a lytle. Whan you byleue the chyrch / wherfore do you bylyue the chyrch? do you not byleue yt bycause yt [...]ayth trouthe? Yes mary q I what ellys. And how know you quod he y ^t the chyrch sayth trouth? Know ye that eny other wyse than by scrypture? Nay mary q I. But than by playne scrypture I knowe yt very well. For y ^e scrypture telleth me that god hath ful­ly taught and techeth hys chyrch and byddeth me byleue hys chyrche. Lo q he for all our longe processe se where to ye be brought now. Ye wold in eny wyse before / & ye semed to proue yt to (all y ^• whyle y ^t ye argued & I answe­red) that the chyrch was in all necessa­ry poyntys of our fayth / as mych to be byleued as the scrypture / and that we sholde not h [...]ue byleued the scrypture but for the authoryte of the chyrch / as ye say saynt Austeyn sayth. And now wh [...]n I argue and ye answer / I haue dreuē you to the wall in thre wordys / & ꝓuyd vnto you y ^t the chyrch is not to be byleued / nor that your self byleueth yt not but for the authoryte of the scrypture. And after that he had thꝰ sayd / y ^t remanaūt y ^t were present alowed it mych / & I was ther w ^t astonyed & sayd I wold aduyse me ferther theron. But he laughed and sayd he wold lend me thys and not to be hasty on me / for he wold gyue me respyte of payment tyll I had spokē with you agayne. ¶Whā your frende had tolde / forsorth q I he delte with you lyke a courteys credy­tour. And syth he hath gyuē you so lōg daye / ye shall not nede I trust to dye in his dette. And to say the trouthe ye owe hym not myche. For ye maye here hym hys owne agayne & tell hym hys money is nought. But I haue espyed yt is as he sayth a grete aduaūtage for hym to oppose. For he hath suche crafte in arguyng / that he wyll sone brynge the answerer to a peryllous poynt / yf he happen on one that wyll answere hym h [...]nsomly as he wolde haue hym. [Page] But on the tother syde yf he had hap­pened on one that had answered hym as frowardly as the boy answered one Caius a peote at Cambryge / than had he by hys opposynge parte / wonne nothynge at all. For Caius for hys plea­sure playenge wyth the boye beynge a yonge sophyster / sayde that he wolde proue the boy an asse. Whych whan y ^e boy denyed / well quod Caiꝰ thou wylt graunt me thys fyrst that euery thyng y ^t hath two erys is an asse. Nay mary mayster wyll I not quod the boy. No wylt thou quod Caius / Ah wyly boy / there thou wentest beyonde me. For & thou woldest haue graunted me that / I wolde haue ꝓued the an asse a none. Mary mayster q the boy so ye myght well / and so might euery fole do. well quod Caius I wyll go nowe a nother way to worke wyth the. Thou wylte graunt me y ^t euery asse hath two erys. Nay mary wyll I not mayster quod y ^e boy. Why so boy q he. Mary mayster quod he for some asse may happe to ha­ue neuer one / for they maye be cutte of both. Nay quod Caius I gyue the ouer for thou art to froward a boy for me. And so yf ye had not graūted what he wolde / he had nothyng wonne at your hand. Why q your frende what thyng dyd I graunte hym that I sholde not? ¶Forsoth quod I no more but al that euer ye graunted. For fyrst whan he asked you whyther y ^e cause why we byleue the chyrch be not bycause it is true that y ^e chyrche telleth you / though your answere whyche ye made therin was not the cause of your redargucyon nor the thynge wherby ye were cōcluded / yet answered ye not well therto whan ye graūted yt. Why quod he wherfore shold I byleue the chyrche or eny man ellys but bycawse they tell me trewe. ¶Some tyme q I yt happeth so / but somtyme yt happeth otherwyse. For yf a knowen lyar tell you a knowen true tale / ye wyl byleue hym bycause he telleth you trewth. But now yf a knowē trew man tell you an vnknowē trouth ye byleue not hym / bycawse the thyng is trouthe / but ye byleue y ^e thyng to be trouth bycause ye byleue the man to be true. And so byleue you y ^e chirch / not bycause it is trouth y ^t y ^e chyrch telleth you but ye byleue the trouth of y ^e thyng bycause y ^e chyrch telleth yt. But yet was not y ^e answere of his as I say y ^e thyng that confoūded you. For now yf ye so sholde haue answered hym as I haue shewed you / though ye shold haue somwhat blenched hym therwyth / yet h [...] myght & wold of lykelyhed haue gon [...] ferther wyth you / and haue asked you wherby ye knowe that ye shold byleue the chyrch. And what answere wolde ye than haue made thervnto? Mary q he than myght I haue sayd that I by­leue y ^e chyrch / bycause that in such ne­cessary poyntys of fayth the chyrch can not erre. ¶That had bē very wel sayd quod I. But he wolde haue asked how ye knowe that ¶Than must I quod he haue sayde the same that I dyde / that I knowe yt by playne and euydent scrypture that the chyrch in such thyn­gys can not saye but trewe. And than wolde I haue layd hym the textes that ye alledged vnto me for the same pur­posed before. Yf ye so had sayd quod I ye had āswerd hym truely but yet not with your most aduaūtage. ¶Why so q he? ¶For quod I your next a [...]swere were to say as trouth is / that ye byleue that the chyrch in such thyngꝭ can not erre / bycawse ye byleue that god hath [Page lxix] taught and tolde y ^e same thyngꝭ to hys chyrch. ¶Thā wold he haue asked me ferther quod your frende what thyng maketh me to bileue y ^t god hath taught & tolde the chyrch those thyngꝭ. ¶So wold he haue asked you quod I / and so myght he wel. ¶Thā were we cōmen quod your frende vnto the same poynt agayne that he shulde haue concluded me as he dyd byfore. ¶Nay q I not yf ye answered therto well. ¶Why q he what coulde I answere ellys / but clerely graūt hym y ^t I byleue y ^t thynge for none other cause but only bycause y ^e scryptur so sheweth me? ¶No could yt q I? what yf neuer scrypture had ben wrytē in this world / shold there neuer haue bene eny chyrch or congregacyon of faythfull & ryght byleuyng people? ¶That wote I nere q he. ¶ No do ye quod I? were there neuer eny folke that byleued in god / & had a true fayth betwene Adam and Noe / of suche as neuer herd god speke them self? ¶Yes quod he I suppose ther were some / but yt shold seme ther were very fewe. For ther were few saued in No [...]s shyppe. ¶The world was at y ^t tyme quod I waxen worse and worse as yt waxeth now. But yt is not vnlykely that ther were many ryght byleuyng people in the meane tyme. ¶ That is quod he lykely ynough. ¶Now as for y ^e dayes quod I of Noe hymselfe / though ther were few saued alyue / yet proueth not that / y ^e people to be all myscreaūtꝭ and without fayth. For yt fared be them as yt faceth now by vs / that there were many that byleued the trouth and had a fayth / but they folowe [...] [...] [...]esshe and san [...] for theyr synne? For there appereth no ferther vppon the story i [...] [...]sis / but y ^t the world w [...] [...]sshed wyth the water of the grete flode for the fylthe of theyr flesshely lyuynge. And all be yt that in the fyrste epystle of saynt Peter / yt myght seme some me [...]edulytye in them / yet may yt be y ^• yt stretched no ferther than to y ^e lakke of fere in the credence of goddꝭ cōmy­n [...]cyon / and o [...]er mych hope and bol­denesse of goddys ferther fauour and sufferaunce wherof they repented after to late for thys psent lyfe / & yet many through goddys mercy not to late for the fynall saluacyon of theyre soules (as appereth by the good & grete clerke Nicolaus de lyra vppon y ^e same place) whyche could in no wyse haue bene so yf they had lakked fayth. Which fayth what scrypture had they to teche thē / or all the menne in effecte y ^t eny fayth had frome Adam thytherto? Was ther also no faythful folke at all from Noe to Moyses / nor hym selfe neyther tyll he had the lawe delyuered hym in wrytyng? Dyd Abraam neuer byleue more but those thyngꝭ that we fynd in scrypture specyally to haue bene tolde hym by god? Was hys father and all hys frēdys infydeles? Were ther no people besyde in all that longe tyme that had a ryght fayth? ¶Yes quod your frende y ^t I thynke veryly there was. ¶That may ye quod I be sure there was. And why dyd eny man thā byleue y ^e chyrche that ys to wytte the nombre and con­gregacyon of good & ryght byleuynge folke / of whose mouth and tradycyon he herde the true byleue / agaynste the wronge and mys [...]e byleue that was in all the world amonge infydeles and Idolaters bysyde? why dyd eny man thys / but bycause they byleued y ^t god hath taught those thyngꝭ to good [...] byfor [...]/and th [...] yt was and w [...]lde [...]e [Page] styll the good lesson of god / and then what thyng made them to byleue that god had taught them so? It was not the scrypture that made thē beleue y ^t / as ye wold that nothynge can tell vs that bylefe but the scrypture. I praye you tell me what scryptur hath taught the chyrch to know whyche bookys be the very scrypture / & to reiecte many other that were wryten of y ^• same ma­ters and that in [...]che wyse wryten / & in the namys of suche men as ( [...]auynge for y ^e spirite of god geuē to hys chyrch) a naturall wyse man had bene lykely ynough / eyther to haue taken both for holy scryptur / or to haue reiected both as none holy scrypture? And surely in the receyte of the tone / and reieccyon of the tother / there wolde haue ben at the lest way suche dyuerse opynyons y ^t the hole chyrch had neuer taken all y ^e tone sorte and reiected all the tother / had not that holy spyryte inspyred that consent / qui facit vnanimes in domo / whyche ma [...]yth the chyrche all of one mynde and accorde. And therfore all be yt that agaynst them that no thyng wyll byleue but scrypture / we proue thauthoryte of y ^e chyrch by scrypture / and in such wyse proue it them by scripture / that they shall be fayne eyther ferther to graunte that they be boūden to byleue the chyrch in thyngꝭ not spe­cyfyed in scrypture / & as fully as they byleue the scrypture selfe / or ellys they shall deny the scrypture & all / yet shold we haue byleued the chyrche yf n [...]uer scripture had ben wrytē / as those good faythfull fol [...]e dyd / that byleued well byfore the scrypture was wryten. And [...] the scrypture selfe maketh vs not byleue the scrypture / but y ^e chyrch ma­k [...]th vs to know y ^e scrypture. And god wythoute scrypture hath taught hys chyrch y ^e knowledge of hys very scrypture frome all counterfete scrypture. For yt is not as I saye the scrypture y ^t maketh vs to byleue the worde of god wrytē in y ^e scrypture (For a mā myght (as happely many doth) rede yt all to gyder and byleue therof neuer a whyt) but yt is the spyryte of god that wyth our owne towardnesse and good ende­uour / worketh in hys chyrch & in euery good membre therof the credulyte and bylyef / wherby we byleue as well the chyrche concernynge goddys wordys taught vs by the chyrch & by god gra­ued in mennys hartys wythout scry­pture / as his holy wordys wrytē in his holy scrypture. And thus ye perceyue that where ye [...] graunted hym that so dyde oppose you / y ^t we byleue y ^t chyrch by none other way but by y ^e scrypture / there dyde ye not answere hym well. For we besyde the scrypture do byleue y ^e chyrch [...] bycause that god hym selfe by secrete inspyracyō of hys holy spyryt / doth (yf we be wyllyng to lerne) teche vs to byleue hys chyrche. And also yf we wyll walk wyth hym / ledeth vs in to the bylyefe therof / by the selfe same meane by which he techeth vs & ledeth vs in to y ^e bylyef of hys holy scryptur. For lyke wyse as whā we here y ^e scry­pture or rede yt / yf we be not rebel­lyous but endeuour ourself to byleue / & captyue & subdew our vnderstādyng to serue & folow fayth / prayng for hys gracyous ayd & help / he than worketh wyth vs / and inwardly doth inclyne our hart in to th [...]ssent of that we rede / and after a lytell spar [...]e of our fayth / encreaceth the credence in our incredulyte / so doth hys goodnes in lykewyse inclyne and moue the mynde of euery [Page lxx] [...] [Page] heretyq [...]. In whych letter he wrote that the [...] [...]we talke of dyd no mor [...] [...]biu [...]e eny heresye / than he had done hym selfe or the man y ^t he wrote vnto. And yet was hys wrytynge as false as god is trew. Wherwyth he la­boured couertly to make the man by­leue / that th [...]pynyons were none he­resyes. And that he whyche was pre­tended to haue abiured them had not so done in dede / but had well auowed them and sty [...]lye a byden by them. Lo thus do suche as are of that secte / set forth theyr m [...]t [...]rs wyth lyes & reasō is yt y ^t they so do. For syth theyr sectys be false / lyes be for them m [...]ste mete. And yet is yt a madde thynge of them to boste of hym. For he forthwyth for­soke them / and euer byfore hys iudges [...] [Page lxxi] [...]ther syde. There ys a mean [...] may ser­u [...] [...] bothe. ¶Ye q he / but wote ye what the wyfe sayd y ^• cōplayned to her gossep of her husbādꝭ frowardnes? She sayde her husbande was so way­ward that he wold neuer be plesed. For yf hys brede quod she [...]e dowe baken / than is he angry. Mary no meruayle q her goss [...]. Mary and wote ye what go [...]p quod she? And yf I [...] yt all to har [...] c [...]lys yet ys he not contente neyther by saynt Iame. No quod her gos [...] ye [...]lde bake y [...] in a meane. In a meane quod she? [...]ary I can not h [...]ppen on yt. And s [...] in a [...]ayer of mary as yt ys moche worke to happen on the meane. And than to saye they [...] to shorte ys lacke of deuocyon. And to saye theym to seryously ys somwhat superstycy [...]se. And therfore the be [...] waye were in mynde / to saye none at all. ¶Y [...] q I / but thā ys god as way­w [...]d a [...] husbād as ye spake of / y ^• wy [...] neyther be contēt w ^t hys br [...]de brēnyd to c [...]lꝭ / nor dough bakē neyther. ¶By our lady q he but be he cōtent or not I wene he h [...]th mych dowgh bakē brede amonge. For the ma [...]s I tell you be in some pl [...]cys so [...]g [...]n faster than I can say thē. ¶Peraduenture q I s [...] were i [...] nede. For yf they sh [...]ld sing m [...] [...]ens no faster thā ye say th [...] ̄ / they shold I wen [...] syng v [...]ry fe [...] [...] in a yere. ¶ In fayth [...] he & som y ^e [...] thē m [...] ke me to do [...]e myth / whether y ^e [...] in theyr hyues vse to say matens among them. For [...] such a nother buzzyng they make. ¶Surely q I y ^t ys as true as yt is euyll done. For as yt is a vyce and s [...]me faw [...]e to [...] in the seruyce of g [...]d superstycyouse in [...] of rely­gyouse / ouer dredefull and scrupulous in stede of [...] and dylygent / so [Page] [...] [Page lxxii] and by wrytyng that were present at all the handelyng [...] of y ^e mater. ¶Well quod I we shall lette theyr wysdom & theyr ler [...]yng alone. But as for theyr honesty shall somwhat shewe yt selfe vppō the trouth or vntrouth of theyre report. Wherin fyrst I pray you could they saye y ^t he was not cōuyct [...]d by as many wytnesses & as good & as credy­ble as the law requyreth? ¶So many q he & such as y ^e law requyreth? wolde god q he that we cowd as easely fynd good men & true / as we maye fyn [...] so many such. For the law doth as I here say requyre but twayne / & yet in cause of heresy careth not mich how bad they be / not though they be heretyques thē self. And is not this a wonderouse case y ^t where as in a mater of lytell money no law receyueth any witnesse but ho­neste & credyble / the lawe made by the chyrche / sholde in so grete a mater / so hyghly towchyng the vtter destruccyō of a man in body & goodis wyth a deth the most paynfull that can be deuysed / admytte and receyue a persone infa­med / and gyue faythe and credence to an infydell whome they haue proued and reproued fals in his fayth to god? Nor me thynketh the excuse but v [...]ry slender y ^t I haue ere thys herde in thys poynt alledged for y ^e chyrch / that suche symple wytnesse are admytted in here­sye / bycause the cryme is so gret and so adyous that therfore yt is worthy to be handled wyth the more rygour and the lesse fauour. And thys thyng wyll I well agre for good reasō in y ^e punyshment [...]f the cryme whan yt is pro [...]d. But for god not in hatred / and persecucyon of the person ere the cryme [...]e proued. ¶But now where as they receyue the wytnesse of so [...]leyghe and f [...]ls [...] [...] ­lowes for a profe / they pursew the person & not the cryme. where as me thyn­keth on y ^e tother syde / the more heygh­nouse / [...]dyouse and abhomynable that the cryme is / the more slow / /shold we be to byleue yt / and the more sure and playn profe shold we haue ere we shold iudge any man for so euyll to commyt yt. ¶ Thre is quod I no dowt / but y ^t the worlde is so bad / that there be ma­ny so naughty / that they wyll be redy ynough to bere false wytnesse. And yet god forbede that yt were so bad as y [...] say / that a man myght soner fynde suche than good men and trewe. And also though the wytnesse were & wold lye / yet whan they be wysely and seuerally examyned / they cā seldom so wel make theyr tale before / but that theyr vntrouth shall in some parte appere. And fynally the law byndeth not the iudge so precysely to the wordys of the wytnes / but that yt leueth many thyngys to be pondered and wayed by hys wysdome. For yt ys in a iudge as yt is in a physycyon / to whom there be ma­ny good b [...]kys wryten / able to gyue good lyght and instruccyon. And yet who so wold so precysely bynde hym to hys boke / that he shold nothyng vse y ^e dyscre [...]ō of his brayne / he shold som­tyme do full euyll seruyce. ¶And yet is it as Arystotle saith wel done ī dede to make the lawes so suffycyēt / that as fewe thyngys as may / shall remayne and be left to the dyscressyon of y ^e iud­ge / sythe that the comen la [...] be con­ [...]antely made by many [...] t [...]n are the p [...]rtyculer iudges / and also many suche as are as wyse as iud [...]. And [...]uer that the lawes [...] to the iud [...] a sure and substaūcyal sh [...]lde / to def [...] and kepe thē from y ^e [...] [Page] ellys wolde folowe theyr sentence on the tone syde or the tother / were theyr iudgement neuer so iuste. For men be so percyall alway to theym selfe / that oure harte euer thynketh the iudge­ment wronge / that wryngeth vs to the worse. For be it neuer so ryght / all reken we wronge wherof we fele har­me. ¶But yet of all thynge specyally the lawe sholde beste content vs / for that yt is ferthest out of all cause of suspycyō. For where as a iudge medleth wyth [...] mater present / & persons whō he seeth & knoweth / wherby there may per [...]as fauour / hatered / hope / or dred / pytye / cruelte / mede / request / or some other affectiō inclyne hym to mysordre hym self in the mater / y ^e lawes alwaye be made for the punyshment of thyngꝭ only that are yet to come / & who shall fall in y ^• parell the makers can not tel. Happely theyr foo [...]/happely theyr frē dys (& as mēnys maners be mutable) peraduenture theym selfe / for whyche cause y ^e ma [...]ers of y ^e law made by y ^e peple in cawses cryminal / can be but in­dy [...]ferent. And therfore I me [...]yle y ^• more / syth y ^• f [...]ut ye fynde now is not in the iudges but in the lawes selfe. Wherin ye thynke yt euyll prouyded that for the hatered of an heyghn [...]use [...]yme / y ^e person peraduenture innocēt shold fall in parell of a paynfull [...]ethe by the more sleyght wytnesse thā wold be [...]kē for su [...]ycyent in a farre sleyghte [...] mater. Somwhat ye sayde in dede yf the [...]te [...]d of the cryme were all y ^• [...]. But therin ye go far wyde. For y ^• chyef cause why that in [...]eyghnous [...] [...]/as thef t [...]/murder / [...]/& heresye / the law taketh such for [...]tne [...] as yt wyll not accept in a [...] other cōtr [...]ct m [...]de betwene two partyes / ys for that ellꝭ all such crymes shold passe sorth vnp [...] ­nisshed / & therby shold y ^e world swarmfull of such myscheuous peple for lacke of profe and tryall in the mater / by­cause that those whych go about suche an heyghnous dede as cōmyng ones to knowledge wolde brynge theym to [...] shamefull deth / do not vse comenly / to take a notary / and honest wytnesse [...] them to make an instrumēt therof / as many men do and all men may do in a contracte or co [...]e [...]unt / but vse yt by s [...]elth as cou [...]tly as they can. By rea­son wherof / re [...]son moneth and neces­syte cōpelleth (except ye wold all haue all go to nought) to receyue suche recordys as they be wonte to make of theyr consayle / whyche be as ye wo [...]e well none but suche as they be theym selfe. And yet sometyme whyche maye s [...]me more straunge / we be contente and r [...] ­son wold we so were / wyth y ^• wytne [...] of the partyes theym selfe. For yf th [...]e .x. theuys robbed foure men at onys in a wood / though all y ^• good that they take a way were / one comē purs of all foure / and wolde all .x. whan they were taken well & sty [...]ly say n [...]e / yet were I theyr iudge (syth all wy [...]e semeth not only to induce a credēce or [...]dulyt [...] in the iuges mynde) I wolde not let (except some other cyrcūstance wyth [...]ode yt) to byleue the .iiii. com­play [...]ys in theyre owne mater aga­ynst all ten defendauntys. And all be yt that percase a iudge myght be in a contracts made bytwene two partyes [...]duced in hys owne mynde wythout any dowte to the con [...]a [...]y to gyue c [...] ­ [...]e ī s [...]ch a poynt to y ^• t [...]ne ꝑte a [...]īst y ^• totherfor the well kn [...]en tr [...]nth & [...] of y ^t t [...]ne / [...] in y ^• tother ꝑ [...]e the [Page lxxiii] [...] [Page] [...] [Page liiii] [...] [Page] [...] [Page lxxv] [...] redy to be pre [...]hed as yt semed yf th [...] world wold so chaunge that the tyme wolde [...]er [...]e yt. And wh [...]n he was in hys ex [...]mynacyō sore preced vppon to tell for what intent he made such a ser­m [...] redy & layed yt vppe so secretely / destytute at last of all excuses y ^t myght be [...] [...]ny coloure of eny good cawse / w [...]ll quod he I se [...] well I muste tell [...]ll / I am lothe to hurt eny body. And thervppon he told how yt was made y ^e mo [...] p [...]te by the man y ^t was abiured / of wh [...]m we specyally speke. So that now s [...]ttynge all thys gere to gether / thys m [...]nys confe [...]yon / hys secrete frende and cōp [...]nyon in such maters / hys olde accusacyons of lyke maters / the heretyques confessyons that foun­ded theyr heresyes in the same maters v [...]on thautoryte of hys sermon / and besydys all thys mo than .xx. wytnessꝭ pl [...]ynly prouynge the mater agaynste hym / I wolde fayne wytte who had ryght yf he had wronge / all though [...] had ben vsed to hym more rygour a g [...]ete dele than therwas.

¶The .v. chapyter.

The author proueth that y ^e spyry­tu [...]ll iudges dyd y ^e man meruylouse fau [...]ur / & alm [...]st more than laufull / in that they admytted hym to such [...] an abiuracyō as they dyd / and that they dyd not rather leue hym to the secular handys.

WHy q he what dyuyll rygoure could they more haue shewed for the fyrst tyme / than make hy [...] ad [...]re and bere a faggot? ¶Yes q [...] I som mā h [...]d l [...]uer bere twayn [...] in hys [...]/than haue one [...]ere hym [...] on a fyre a [...] hys feete. ¶In [...]th qu [...]d he they coud not haue done [...] to hym at the fyrst tyme. ¶No q [Page] I no [...] yf he wyllyngly retourned to y ^e chyrch knoulegynge hys faute / & redy to abiure all heresyes / and penetently submytted hymselfe to penaunce. And ellys yf he proue hym selfe obstynate and impenytent / the chyrch neyther is bounden nor oughte to receyue hym / but vtterly may forsake hym and leue hym to the secular [...] handys. But now was he so obstynate that he wolde not abiure of lōg tyme. And dyuerse dayes were hys iudgꝭ fayne of theyr fauour to geue hym / wyth sufferaunce som his beste frendys & whom he most trusted / to resorte vnto hym. And yet scantely could all thys make hym submytte hī selfe to make hys abiuracyon. And fy­nally were they fayne for sauynge of hys lyfe / to dyuyse a forme of abiura­cyon / wherof I neuer saw y ^• lyke / nor in so playne a case neuer wold we [...]e I y ^• iudg / suffer y ^e lyke here after. ¶what man was that quod he? ¶Mary qu [...]d I hys abiuracyon was suche that he therī abiured & forsware all her [...]sy [...]s / knowlegyng hym selfe lawfully con­uycte. But where as they be wont to cōfesse in theyr owne abiuracyon that they haue holden such heresyes and be gyltye therof / that wolde he do in no wyse / but as clerely as hys f [...]wte was proued / and by as many / yet wolde he not to dye therfore confesse hym selfe fawtye / but alway stode styll vppō yt in vertue of hys othe that all they be­lyed hym. ¶It myght happen quod he that he had forgoten y ^t he so had pched. ¶That were quod I grete wounder. For I am sure whan he had [...]er [...]ed so in so many placys / he had not done yt of a sodayne aduenture / but of a de­lyberat purpose / whych excepte he fell madde / yt were no well pos [...]yble f [...]r hym in so grete a mater to forgete. And bysydꝭ thys yt was also deposed / th [...] ī a place where he pched/he was after the sermon resoned wythall forth [...]. And by an honest ley mā had yt layed vnto hys charge / y ^t he had parelousely preched / shewyng hym wherin. Wher vnto he made answere not that he had not sayed so / nor that he had not ment so / or that they had mysse taken and wrong vnderstanden hys wordis / but that he wold preche there agayne son [...] after / and proue hys prechynge trewe by the olde doctours of the chyrch. And thys happed hym not longe byfore y ^t he was accused. Was yt not possyble by your fayth that he coulde haue for­gote thys? ¶It was quod he possyble ynough that all to gether was false / & that they lyed all. For so myght they do by possybylyte beyng but men / and though they had ben mo thē they were. And then he peraduenture knowynge that they so dyd / why sholde he falslye confes [...] a fawte in hym selfe for the falsehed of other folke? ¶That is q I trew yf he so knew yt. But how could y ^t be so / agaynst so many ꝓuys sworen and dep [...]syng the mater vppon theyr othꝭ / beyng though they were but mē / yet men of wytte and honestye [...] some well lerned also / and men that bare hym no dyspleasur for eny other mater than hys euyll prechyng / men almoste all such as wold h [...]ue none other mater to hym / folke that neuer had other mater wyth hym / and many of them of lytell acqua [...]ntaunce or [...] the one wyth the other / so t [...] the [...]e was n [...] fere of conspyryng to gyder ī one [...] ¶ [...]et quod he were yt possyble y ^t they myght ly [...] all. ¶And what quod I y ^t he had b [...] ̄ accused [...] other placꝭ byfore [...] [Page lxxvi] [...] [Page] both there had gone of l [...]te [...] horse or two / and that he wold so clerely proue yt that yt coulde not be the contrary. yf Sy [...]en sayd and layd hys wager the cōtrary / and than they bothe shold chese vs for iudges / and we comynge all foure in to the way / Wylken wold shew vs on the grounde parte in y ^e clay and part peraduenture in the snow the prent of horse fete and of mennys fete also by a longe way ten myle togyder and ye wyll / tyll they come at a wa­ter wher as went a way by shyp no mā can tell who nor whyther yt forceth not for our wyse case / but now yf Wylken wolde say that he had wonne hys wager / for lo here ye se the prent of y ^e horse fete all thys waye shone and all wyth the very naylys in them / so that yt maye be none other wyse but horse h [...]the gone here / yf Symken after all thys wold say the wager were hys for yt ys not proued that ony horse hadde goone there / for yt myght be that they were geldyngꝭ or ma [...]ꝭ / here were we fallen in a grete questyon of the law / whyther y ^e gray mare maye be y ^e better horse or not / or whither he haue a wyse face or not that loketh as lyke a foole as an ewe loketh lyke a shepe. And in thys question yf the partyes demurred in our iudgement / we myght aske aduyse ferther of lernyd men and iudgis ¶We myght quod he be suyt to be sure of the mater / make yt a cheker cham­ber case. Or sauynge the premunyre / we myght haue yt tryed in the rote at Rome. ¶Uery well q I so that I see wel by your wytte and myn togyder / one shy [...]e or other we shold fynde for a finall ende therin / yf the doute were in that poynte. But nowe yf Symken styc [...]ed not therto / but wold saye thus lo here ye see the men haue g [...]e [...] way / and how can y [...] th [...]n be [...]e that eny horse wente here. For I [...] [...]ayth he that these men whyche went here had horse sh [...]e in theyr [...] made fast vpō longe s [...]elys / and [...] as they went prykked thē downe hath in the grounde [...] Cut quod he this [...] a wy [...]e inuencyon. ¶Ueryly q I to [...] yt wold not seme very gay. But nowe yf Symkyn were contencyous & wold say the wager were hys except yt be so proued that yt can be none other wyse but that horse haue of late gone there & then wyll say to vs lo syrs as ye se it yt may be other wyse. For mē myght make wyth theyr hādys all the prentꝭ of horse shone in the grounde. And thā yf we wolde say that was neuer so / he wolde aske vs how can we be sure therof / whyle we can not say naye but yt myght be so / and thā wold [...]yll prece vppon vs wyth thys questyon maye yt not be so. ¶It may q he by possybylite be so. ¶Than quod I whan we graūt hym onys that yt may be so / than wyll he by and by put case that yt were so. And then yf we graunt hym hys case onys for the possybylyte / than wyll he shortely conclude that the tother parte ys not so surely proued / as yt must be yf Wylken sholde wynne the wager. What sholde we saye to hym now / to whom shold we gyue the wager? ¶In fayth quod he I wote nere what to say to hym. And the mater is so mad that as for the wager what I wolde gyue Wylkyn I wote nere / but as for Symkyn except he better impugned y ^e profe / yf the wager were but a butter flye / I wolde neuer awarde hym one wynge. ¶Surely quod I and you shall rule y ^e m [...]er for me. For yf ye gyue n [...]ught / [Page lxxvii] he getteth as lytell of me. But nowe what yf he waxe angry y ^t his proper inuencyon were no more set by / nor hys wyt no more regarded / and wold ther vppō help forth his parte with his othe and swere vppō a bo [...]e that hymselfe saw when the mē made those pryntys in y ^e grounde wyth horse sh [...]ne h [...]lden in theyr handys / what wolde ye then say? ¶Mary quod he than wold I say & swere to y ^t besyde y ^e losse of his wager he had like a false folysh knaue lost his honeste & his soule to. ¶In good fayth quod I & for aught I se yet I durst be bold to swere w ^t you. And thā lettyng wylken alone w ^t Symken dysputyng theyr sophem them self / let vs retorne [...] agayne to oure owne mater. In which whyle there were so many so clere & open prouys agaīst y ^e mā of whom we speke al this whyle / though it were possyble y ^t all they myght be false / yet coulde there none indyfferent iudge so thynke / except it were so proued / & y ^t by other meanes thā y ^e only othe of y ^e ꝑtie y ^t is accused / swerīg alone agaynst thē all. ¶Yet q he for all y ^t yf he know indede y ^t he dyd it not / he doth but wel to abyde by y ^e trouthe. ¶Uery soth ye say quod I. Nor Symken neyther yf he saw the men prent the horse shone in y ^e hyghe waye though yt semed vs neuer so vnlykely / yet hadde he done well ynough to saye yt & swere yt to & styfly to stycke therby [...] And yet ye remember parde that yf he so wolde haue sworne ye & I both durst ryght now ryght bol­dely haue bileued y ^t he lyed. And might we not wel byleue the same in our case to? ¶Yes quod he y ^t wyll I well. And therfore the iudgys dyd hym but ryght to reken hym as conuycted / and ther­fore to compell hym to [...]. But yet they shewed hym therin no suche fa­uour as ye speke of / in y ^t they admitted hym to hys abiuracyō w ^tout cōfessynge of y ^e faute. For yf they had forced hym therto / they had in my mynd done hym playn & open wrong / bycause yt might be y ^t he sayd and sware true. And then sholde they haue forced hym agaynste his cōscyēce / to say of hym self vntrue. And that shold they do not onely clene agaynst ryght / but also wythout necessytye / cōsyderynge y ^t they myght as in conclusyō they dyd / abiure hym other wyse. And therfore they toke the best way bothe for hym & for them self also But synnꝭ they dyd therin none other wyse thē as they were of duty boūdē / yt well appereth he had therin no such fauour as ye wolde make yt seme that they shewed hym. ¶wel q I syth your self agreeth y ^t he had no wronge / albe yt no fauour hadde bē shewed hym / yet were your erand āswered as far as toucheth his abiuracyō. & now yf I shold proue you y ^t his iudgꝭ shewed hym such fauour / I fere me lest I shold therw ^t sūwhat seme to charge them that they had done though not wrōge / yet very nere wronge / y ^e fauour apperyng to be shewed / yf not agaīst y ^e law / yet at the lest way y ^e lawe for fauour so far stre­ched forth / y ^t y ^e lether could scant hold. But yet these they for me. For sythe I haue sayde yt / I wyll tell you why / and so mych the more boldely bytwene vs twayne / for that I perceyue not in you eny such maner of mynde toward theym / that ye wolde blowe abrode eny fawte of vnlawfull fauour foun­den in theym. ¶Ah well sayde quod he and lawghed. Ye wene I were more redy to reporte theyre rygoure then eny poynt of theyr fauour. ¶well [Page] [...]ken of you quod I. I se well a man cā not haue a good opyniō of you / but your cōscyēce cōstr [...]th it to y ^e cōtrary. But now for y ^e mater / I trowe we be agreed both / y ^t al were it so y ^t y ^e mā had bē fautlesse in dede / yet were y ^e prouys agaīst hym so many / so good / so cle [...]e & euydēt / & so mych more thā suffycyēt / y ^• neyther his iudgꝭ nor our self neyther / nor I thīke his own father neyther yf yf he had herd thē / could haue thought hī other thā very gretely gyltie. ¶Surely q he y ^t is true ¶Now q I y ^t beyng true y ^t they coud non other wyse rekē in hym though he styll sware y ^e cōtrary / must yt not nedꝭ be y ^t in his denyenge in vertue of his othe / y ^e thyngꝭ whych thei coud not but bileue true / they must nedꝭ therw ^t byleue hym all y ^e whyle to lye & be ꝑiured [...] ¶That foloweth q he ¶Now q I whā one is accused & con­uicted of heresy / what thīg wyll y ^e law y ^t y ^e chyrch shal receyue hym to? ¶what thīg q he? mary to mercy. ¶Nay q I mercy is y ^e thyng as it semeth y ^t they receyue him by / not y ^e thīg y ^t they receyue him to. ¶Thē is yt quod he to penaūce. ¶That semeth well sayd q I. For the chyrch by mercy receyueth hym to pe­naūce. ¶But now q I doth y ^e chirch o­pēly receiue to penaūce any ꝑson appering & prouīg him self styl impenytēt? ¶Nay quod he. ¶Appereth not he styl impenytēt q I y ^t styl appereth ꝑiured / & styll standing in periury? And where y ^e fyrst parte of penaunce is cōfessyō & humble knowlegynge of the fau [...]/can the chyrch reken hym penytēt y ^t styll refuseth to cōfesse his faut / y ^• lyeth falsly styll / & falsely forswereth hymselfe? ¶The chyrche quod he can not surely know whyther he swere true or false / and therfore they can not surely iudge hym [...]orsworen. For yt may be by po [...]bylyte that all the wytnesse lyed. ¶It may be to quod I by possybylyte yf we go this way to worke / y ^t all y ^e men lyed y ^t euer haue sayd they came fro Rome / and that al y ^e dryefys and bullys were fayned that euer were supposed to be brought fro thense / for aught that he can tell that neuer cam there him self / For som one mā myght lye & some one bull or bryefe myght be fayned / and so som other & one by one / & so forth of all the remanaūt. For lyke possybylyte is therin euery one as is in eny one. And ꝑaduenture as for your own self haue neuer yet talked wyth .xx. y ^t haue tolde you they haue ben at Rome. ¶No no q he nor I wene w ^t .x. neyther. ¶And how many bullꝭ q I and bryesys haue ye sene that cam thense. ¶By our lady q he b [...]llys very few / and bryf [...] neuer non / for I neuer aske after thē. ¶Thē q I myght you by your own reason as well dowte whyther there were eny Rome or no / as whyther that mā lyed and were forsworn or no. But in this poynt I wyll not lōg styck w ^t you. For surely stādyng the mater in such case y ^t hys iudgis could not otherwyse thynk of hym but y ^t he was fauty of thyngys whych he styll in vertue of his othe de­nyed / all were yt so that they myghte thynke therwyth y ^t by possybylyte they myght be in that mynde deceyued / yet whyle they could not thynke that they could haue none other mynde / but that he (though yt myght by possybylyte be trewe that he sware) yet was for­sworne in dede / and in very ded [...] per­seuered in periury. Nowe the mater I say stādyng in such case / syth he y ^t [...] so playn apperyng periury / standeth in y ^e denyal of his faut & fals de [...]er of hym [Page lxxviii] self cannot be re [...]ned of hys fawte pe­nytēt / & vnto penaunce ought none impenytent ꝑson to be admyttyd / I wyll not say y ^t hys iudgys dyd wronge. But sure [...]y me thynkith I may well say that they shewyd hym grete fauour / in that they receyuyd hym to penaūce w ^tout y ^e cōfessyō of hys faut. And I thynk verely it was a fauorable fassyon of abiuracyon / & so strange y ^t the lyke hath bene very seldō sene yf euer yt were sene be­fore. And y ^t did they in hope y ^t god shal send hym more grace in tyme to come / & so I be [...]ech hī to do. For I ꝓmise you for my parte I neuer can cōceyue good hope of his amēdmēt / all y ^e while y ^t I se y ^e pryde abyde styll in hys hart / y ^t cānot suffer hī for shame to cōfesse hys faut.

The .vi. chapyter.

¶The author shewyth y ^t the person abiured for hys owne honeste worldly / and for the more frute of hys pre­chynge / yf he be suffred to preche in tyme to come / yt were mych better for hym openly & wyllyngly to con­fesse the trothe. And y ^t now by the stā dyng styll in the denyall / he both shamyth hym self / & shuld yf he pr [...]chyd sklaunder the worde of god.

IT ys q he ꝑaduenture better thus. For than shuld he sclaū ­der hym self & the word of god also / if he shuld hereafter preche agayn ¶Nay mary q I than shuld he rather deliuer him self fro sclaūder & the word of god also. For than shuld euery mā se the dyuell cast clene out of hys harte / & hope y ^t he shulde be fro thensforth a ve­ry good man. where now thynkīg hym to parseuer in a proud par [...]ury / we can none other thynk but y ^t he must nedys be very nought styll / though we shulde herafter here him preche neuer so well. & y ^t were a sore sclaūder to the worde of god / y ^t men shuld se hym whō they here preche well / so proud an ypochryte and therw ^t so folysh to / y ^t for a false hope of hys own estymacyō preseruyd / he laboryth as mych as in hym ys to make the worlde wene y ^e .xx. trew men were for­sworn agaynst hym. wherin whyle ther ye no man so mad to beleue hym / he le­ [...]eth (yf he preche in thys plyght) all his hole purpose / & winneth nothīg but the cōtrary / y ^t ys double shame of hys ꝓud ꝑiury & hye malycyous mynde / in stede of the prayse y ^t he lokyth & prechyth for.

The .vii. chapyter.

¶The mesenger moueth a questyō / it a man be sworne by a iudge to say the trouth of hī self in a cryme wher­of he ys had suspect / whether he may not lawfully on hys othe swere vn­trewth / where he thynkyth y ^e treuth cā not be ꝓuyd agaīst hym. wherūto thauthor āsweryth y ^t he is boūdē vppō ꝑell of ꝑiury to say & cōfes trouth And y ^t mych more syn & folye bothe was it thē for y ^e mā y ^t thus was abiuryd to forswere him self in the thīg y ^t he wist well wold be ꝓuid / & a shame lesse foly to stand styll by hys ꝑiury / whā he saw y ^e mater so clerely ꝓued in dede. And w ^t thys fynyshyth he y ^e mater of hys abiuracyon.

IN good fayth q he I begyn in thys mater to be of your mynd For y ^e mater beyng so playn & clerely ꝓued / it was & is both syn & foly to stand ī y ^e deny [...] ̄g. But there cometh a thīg in my mīd thogh it be sūwhat out of our mater / wherin I wolde be glad to here what ye thīk. ¶what thyng ys y ^• q I [...] Mary q he I haue hard sū well lerned men say yf a mā were accused of a faut y ^t were trew in dede / yet if it be secret & cā not be ꝓued / in ā othe put vnto him he may & ought to swere nay because y ^• of secret & vnknowen thyngꝭ no mā [...] be hys iudge. For onely god is iuge of manꝭ harte. And / yf he shold cōfesse it where he nedyth not before [...] cōpetēt [Page] iudge / y ^t is to wyt hys secrete faut opē ly before mē wherof only god is iudge / thā shuld he defame him selfe / & y ^t were, grete syn. For holy scrypture sayth / cu­rā habe de bond noīe. Take hede of thy good name. Et meliorē nomē bonū q diuitie multe. Better ys a good name thē mych rychesse. And yt saythe also / Maledictꝰ homo q negligit famā [...]uā. A cursed ys y ^t man y ^t careth not what mē say of hī. And therfore I haue hard som well lernyd men say / y ^t in this case a man may boldely deny the matere vppon hys othe be yt neuer so trew / so y ^t yt be so secrete as yt be not able to be ꝓued by wytnesse. ¶Forsoth quod I it ys a large & a long mater to speke of ꝑ [...]ury. But as for thys poynt I hold it ī my mynde lytyll questyō. For I holde thys onys for a sure & ā infallible cōclusyō / y ^t a mā may neuer lawfully be for­sworne. Mary trouth it is y ^t a mannys oth receyueth interpretacyō / & is not alway bounden precysely to y ^e wordis. As yf a iuge wold swere me generally in a courte to make trew āswer to such thyngꝭ as shuld be asked of me / & after myne othe gyuen / he wolde aske me certayn questiōs of maters nothing be lōgīg to hym / I were not by myn othe boūden to make hym answere / for as mych as no such thyng was ī myn oth intended. And therfore if a prest y ^t had herd a m̄nys confessyō were called be­fore a iudge & sworne for a wytnes / he myght boldly swere he knew nothynge of y ^e mater. Not for y ^e comē glose y ^t y ^e cō fessyō was not made to hym as to him self but as to goddꝭ mynyster / but for y ^t y ^e law dyschargyth hym of shewīg eny such thīg / no lesse thā yf hys othe were geuē hym in thys maner / what knowe ye of this mater out of cōfessiō. For els yf there were a tyraūt y ^t wolde cōpelle hym by expresse wordys to swere what he knew by y ^• m [...]nys cōfessyō / y ^• cōfessor had in my minde no remedy but to tell hym playnly / syr I wyll not swere for you nor in such mater make you eny ā swere to dye therfore / not for eny thīg y ^t I know in y ^e mā for this mater thogh I tolde you all hys hole cōfessyō a non / but for the euyll y ^t shulde grow by such a precedēt. For yf I shulde now excuse an innocente swerynge truely that I harde no suche thynge in hys confes­syon / I shulde in some other cause ey­ther be forsworne / or by my refusinge to swere I shulde make the man the more suspecte / ī that I refuse to swere as myche for hym as I dyde for a no [...]ther. And therefore wyll I not make eny answere in thys for y ^e perell y ^t may fall in other. And wyth thys answer [...] or such other must he playnly refuse to swere what payn so euer he sholde en­dure therfore. And in lyke wyse yf eny iudge wolde gyue an othe to eny persō to tell hym y ^e truth of eny cryme / which were so secrete as the iudge had neuer hard eny thīg therof / but wold for hys onely pleasure know by the mānys oth whither ther were ꝑaduēture eny such thing or not / y ^e ꝑtie may deny to swere or to make hym answere therin. But ō y ^e tother syde yf he be denoūced or detected vnto hym / eyther by commune fame or other īformacyō / w ^t such cōiertures & lykelyhedꝭ as the law geueth y ^e iudge authorite to gyue y ^e ꝑtie an othe for y ^e ferther serch of y ^e mater / ther is he playnly hoūdē vppō payne of eternall dānacyō w ^t out coueryng or cautell to shew & disclose y ^e playne trouth / & to haue more respect to hys soule thā to hys shame. For as for those textꝭ whych ye alledged / be far from thys poynt. For they nōe other mean / but y ^• a mā shold in hys lyuyng auoyd [...]ot onely synne / but also all occacyōs wherby mē might haue resonable cause falsly to dy [...]fame him. And it was neuer mēt of y ^e shame [Page lxxix] y ^t a man taketh of hys owne cōfessyon for hys synne cōmytted in dede. For by y ^t he lesyth not hys good name / but getteth hys good name amōg good folk. & as for of euyl mēnꝭ wordꝭ ther is no rekenīg. But surely as I say yf a mā had bē as yll as a deuyll / & after repētīg his syn wold for ꝑte of hys penaunce wyl­lyngly offer hym self to y ^e sufferaūce of open shame / ther were no good cristen mā y ^t wold after y ^t lyke y ^e man y ^t wors / but a grete deale y ^e better. And yf all suche opē cōfessyō were synne / there was mych syn vsed amōg good folke many day in Crystꝭ chirch / whā yt was mich better thā yt is now. Lo Achā y ^t had cō mytted sacrylege wherof ys wryten in Iosue / was exorted by Iosue to cōfesse hys faute opēly / & gyue glory to god y ^t had detected him by lottis. And so dyd he / and mekely suffered for hys syn as well the shame & wōder of the worlde / as the payn ād bytternes of deth. And therfore I no more dout of that the [...]e / but that he is a glorioꝰ saint in heuen / thā I dout of y ^t these y ^e cryst promysed Paradyse hangynge on y ^e crosse. And [...]urely yf mēnys old fautys were styll theyr īfamy after theyr amēdemēt / thā was saynt Peter lytell beholdē to saīt Mathew & other of hys felows y ^t haue slaūdred hym in theyr gospels / tellyng how shāfully after all hys crakꝭ he for­soke his mayster & forsware hī both. yf a good man ware naght / y ^e bet [...] he was y ^e more synne it is & y ^e more shame also. And ys yt not thā ī resō ō y ^e tother syde yf a naughty mā wax good / y ^e worse he was y ^e better is for hī & y ^e more worship also? Our lord sayth hī self y ^t for one sī ­ner comīg again to grace / ther is more ioy ī heue than vppō almost an hūdred good folk y ^t neuer sinned. And rekē we then y ^t man shamed by y ^e knolege of his [...]yn here amōg synfull mē / whose hūble cōfessiō & me [...]e amēdemēt wīneth him so mych worship in heuē? Trust me truly whā a mā hath done euyll if he be duly sworē / it is a worshipfull shāe & a ioyfull sorow to cōfesse y ^e treuth and good folke though they abhore y ^e sī / yet loue thei & cōmed y ^e mā / as one y ^t was noght & ys good. And y ^e shame y ^t he cōceyueth ī hys harte afore y ^e worlde / geteth hym grete honour afore god. & y ^e shorte glo­wīg here in his chekis spedely burneth vp & wasteth / y ^t neuer wastyng fyre of hell / standyng hym ferther in stede of grete ꝑte of his purgatory. And therfore to y ^e poynt y ^t we speke of w ^tout longe ꝓcesse I tell you playnly my mynde / y ^t no man can be excused from the ꝑell of ēdlesse dānaciō / y ^t wold vpō boldnes of eny doctors opynyō / hyde or couer hys faute by eny cautell / after a lawfull oth gyuē him to tell y ^e playn trothe therin. And who so wyll say y ^e cōtrary he must nedys hold playn agaynst y ^e law / & say y ^t no iuge may lawfully gyue an othe to the ꝑty. wherof shuld the othe serue yf y ^e party myght lefully forswere hym self? And also yf y ^e iudge may not law­fully giue hym y ^• othe / thā may he refuse to swere / & may not first swere & thā say false. whych euery man must vppō dāpnacyō eschew though he folily take an othe / where he lawfully myght re­fuse yt. ¶Forsothe quod he me thynk­eth ye take the sure way. ¶well q I yf this be so in one y ^t is sworē where y ^e mater as he thinkyth cā not be well ꝓued / how farre wronge went the man that we speke of / to forswere hym selfe in a mater of prechyng / y ^t he wyll well was so opē y ^t it wold be playnly ꝓued what synne was therin / & what synne & foly thereto was there to stycke styll in hys ꝑiury / whā he saw y ^e mater a [...]lredy proued so clerely & by so many / so good / so honest / & so indefferent / y ^t he coulde nothing now wyn by y ^e dē [...]e [...] but euyll opyniō / & almost a dispayre of his amē demēt [Page] in all y ^t euer hatd hī? ¶In good fayth q he all this is very truthe & ther for we shall let him a lone tyll god send hym better mynde.

The .viii. chapyter.

¶The author shewethe why y ^e new testamēt of Tyndals trāslacyō was burned. & she with for a sample certaī wordꝭ euill & of euyll purpos chāgid

BUt now I pray you let me kno your mynd cōcernyng y ^e burnīg of y ^e new testamēt ī ē glish / which Tindal lately trāslated / & (as mē say) right wel / whiche makethe mē mich meruayl of y ^e burnīg ¶It is q I to me gret meruayl / y ^t eny good cris­tē mā hauīg eny drop of wyt ī hys hed / wold eny thīg meruell or cōplayn of y ^e [...]urnīg of y ^e boke if he knowe y ^e mater. which who so callith y ^e new testamēt calleth it by a wrōg name / except they wyl call yt Tyndals testament or Luthers testamēt. For so had tyndall after Lu­thers coūsayle corrupted & chaūged yt frō the good & holsō doctryne of Criste to the deuylysh heresyes of theyr own / y ^t it was clene a cōtrary thing. ¶That were maruayle q your frend y ^t it shuld be so clene cōtraty. For to som y ^t red it yt semed very lyke. ¶It ys q I neuer the lesse cōtrary / & yet y ^e more peryll [...]ꝰ. For like as to a trew siluer grote a fals coꝑ grote is neuer y ^e lesse cōtrary thogh yt be quyk syluered ouer / but so mych y ^e more false show mich it is coūterfeted y ^e more lyke to the trouth / so was y ^e trāslaciō so mich y ^e more cōtrary ī how mich it was cra [...]cely deuysed like / & so mych y ^e more peryllus ī how miche it was to folke vnlernyd more hard to be dysser­nid ¶why q your frēd what fautꝭ wer ther syt? To tell you all / y ^e q I were in a maner to reherse you all y ^e hole hoke / wherin ther were founden and noted wrong & fa [...]ly trāslated aboue a thou­sand textꝭ by tale. ¶I wolde q he fayn here some one. ¶He y ^t shuld q I study for y ^t / shuld study where to finde water in y ^e see. But I wyll shewe you for en­sample two or thre suche as euery one of the thre ys more than thryes thre in one. ¶That were q he very straunge except ye mene more ī weyght. For one cā be but one in nōber. ¶Surely q I as weyghty be they as eny lyghtly can be. But I mene y ^e euery one of them is more thā thryes thre in nōber. ¶That were q he sūwhat lyke a rydel. ¶This rydell q I wyl sone be red. For he hath mystrāslated .iii. wordꝭ of gret weyght & euery ōe of thē is as I suppose more than thryes three tymes repeted and rehersed in y ^e boke. ¶Ah y ^t may well be q he / but y ^t was not well done. But I pray you what wordꝭ be they? ¶The tone ys q I this word prestys. The to ther / y ^e chyrch. The thyrd charyte. For prestis wher so euer he speketh of y ^e pstꝭ of Crystis chirch he neuer calleth them prestes but alway seuyours / the chyrch he calleth alway the congregacyō / and charyte he callyth all [...] loue. Now do these namꝭ in our englysh tōg ney­ther expsse y ^e thyngis y ^t be mēt by thē / & also there appeth (y ^e circūstaūcꝭ well cō sidered) y ^t he had a mischeuoꝰ mind ī y ^e chaūge. For fyrst as for prestꝭ & psthed though that of old they vsed comēly to chese wel elderly mē to be prestꝭ / & therfore in y ^e greke tong prestys wer called presbiteri / as we myght say elder men / yet nether were all prestꝭ chosen old as apperyth by saīte Poule wrytīg to Timotheꝰ / nemo iuuenturē tuā cōtēpnat let no mā cōtēpne thy youth / nor euery elder mā is not a prest. And in our en­glysh tonge thys word senyor sygny­fieth nothīg at al / but is a french word vsed in englysh more than halfe in mockage / whan one wyll call a nother my lord in scorn. And if he mene to take y ^e laten worde senyor / y ^e word ī y ^e latē tōg [Page lxxx] neuer sygnyfyed a prest but only an el­der mā. By whych name of elder mē yf he wold call y ^e prestꝭ ēglishly / thā shold he rather sygnify theyr age thā theyr of fyce. And yet y ^e name doth ī ēglish plaī ly sygnify chaldermen of y ^e cyties / & no­thyng y ^e prestys of y ^e chyrch. And thus may we ꝑceyue y ^t rather than he wolde call a prest by y ^e name of a prest / he wold seke a new word he neyther wyst nor cared what. ¶Now where he calleth the chyrch alway y ^e cōgregacyō / what resō had he therin? For euery mā well seeth y ^e though y ^e chyrch be in dede a cōgregaciō / yet is not euery cōgregaciō y ^e chirch bu [...] a cōgregaciō of cristē peple / whiche cōgregaciō of crysten peple hath ben in [...]glōd alway called & known by the name of y ^e chirch. which name what good cause or colour could he find to torn in to y ^e name of cōgregaciō / whych worde is comē to a cōpany of cristē mē or a cō pany of turkys? ¶Lyke wysdom was there in y ^e chaūge of thys word charyte ī to loue. For though charyte be alway loue / yet is not ye wote well loue all­way charyte. ¶The more pytye by my fayth q your frēd y ^e euer loue was syn. And yet it wold not be so mich so takē if y ^e world were no more suspecioꝰ than they say y ^t good saīt Frācꝭ [...]s / which whā he saw a yong mā [...]is a girle onis ī way of good cōpany / kneled downe & held vp hys handys in to heuen / hygh­ly thanking god y ^t charite was not yet gone oute of thys wreched world. ¶He had quod In good mynde & did lyke a good mā / y ^t demed all thyng to y ^e best. ¶So say I to quod he. But how farr be folke fallen fro y ^e good mynde now. Men be now a dayes waxen so full of mystrust / that sum man wold in fayth wene hys wyfe were noughte / yf he shuld but fynde her in bed wyth a pore frete. ¶Forsothe ye be a wanton quod I. But yet in erneste how lyke you the chaunge of these wordys: ¶Surely q he very naught. And that yt was not well nor wysely done / ther wyl I trow no good wyse man deny. but yet why­ther Hychēs had in y ^e translacyō therof eny malycyous purpose or not / therin wyll I till I se ferther play saynt Fraū cys parte / and iudge the man no wors than the mater requyrethe. ¶Fyrste quod I wolde ye that the boke shulde go forth and be red styll in that fassyō? ¶Nay in goode faythe quod he that wold I not yf he vse yt so very often. ¶with that word quod I ye hytte the nayle on the hed. For surely yf he chaū ged the comen knowen word in to the better / I wolde well alowe yt. If he chaūgid it in to as good I wold suffer yt. yf sum what in to worse so he dyd yt selde I wolde wynke at hyt. But now whā he chaūgeth the known vsuall namys of so grete thingis / in to so far the worse / and that not repeteth seldome / but so oftē & so contynually inculketh / that almost in the hole boke hys lewde chaunge he neuer chaungeth / in thys maner coulde no man deme other / but that the man ment myscheuously / scāt such a good sely soule as wolde wene all were well whan he found hys wyfe where ye sayd ryght now. yf he called charyte somtyme by the bare name of loue / I wolde not stykke therat. But now where as charyte sygnyfyethe in englysh mennys eres / not euery comē loue / but a good vertuoꝰ and well or­drede loue / he that wyll studyously flee fro that name of good loue / & all way speke of loue / & alway leue out good / I wolde surely say that he meanethe n [...]ughte. In good faythe quod he so is it not vnlykely. ¶Tha [...] quod I when ye se more ye shall say it ys mych more th [...]n lykly. ¶For now yt ys to be con­sydered that at the tyme of thys tran [...] lacyon [...]ych [...]ns was wyth Luther in wyttenberge / and set certayne gl [...]sy [...] in the mergent / framed for the settyng [Page] forth of y ^e vngracious sect. ¶By saynt Ioh [...] quod your frende yf that be true that Hychens were at that tyme w ^t Luther / it is a playne token y ^t he wrought sumwhat after hys counsayle / and was wyllynge to helpe hys maters for­warde here. But whyther Luthers matters be so badde as they be made for / that shall we see hereafter. ¶Uery true quod I. But as touchyng the confederacye betwene Luther and hym / is a thyng well knowen & playnly con­fessed / by suche as haue ben taken and conuycted here of herysye comyng frō thense / and some of them sente hyther to sowe that sede aboute here / and to sende worde thyther fro tyme to tyme how yt sprāg. ¶But now y ^e cause why he chaunged the name of charyte & of the chyrche and of presthed / is no very grete dyffyculte to perceyue. For sithe Luther and hys felowes amonge o­ther theyre damnable heresyes haue one / that all our saluacyon standyth in fayth alone / and toward our saluacyō nothynge force of good workys / ther­fore yt semeth that he laboreth of pur­pose to mynyshe that reuerent mynd y ^t men bere to charyte / and therfore he chaungeth that name of holy vertuoꝰ affeccyon / in to the bare name of loue comen to the vertuouse loue that man [...]erith to god / & to the lewd loue that is bytwene flekke & his make. And for bycause that Luther vtterly denyeth the very catholyque chyrche in [...]ri [...]e / and sayth that the chyrch of Crist is but an vnknowen c [...]ngregacyon of sum folke here .ii. & there .iii. no m [...] wot where hauyng the [...]yght fayth / whych he calleth onely hys owne new forgede faythe / therfore [...]chens in the new testament can not abyde the name of the chyrch / but turneth it into the name of congregacyon / wyllyng that yt shuld seme to englysh men / eyther that Cryste in the gospell had neuer spoken of the chirch / or ellys that the chyrche were but such a congregacyon as they myghte haue occasyon to say / that a congregacyon of some such heretyques were y ^e chyrch that god spake of. ¶Now as towchīge the cause why he chaunged the name of preste into senior / ye muste vnderstād that luthere and his adherentys holde thys heresye / that all holy order ys no­thyng. And y ^t a prest is nothyng ellys / but a man chosen among the peple to preche / and that by that choyce to that o [...]yce he is preste by and by wythoute eny more ado / and no preste agayne whan so euer the people chese a nother in hys place / and that a preestys offyce is no thynge but to preche. For as for saynge masse and herynge of confessyō and absolucyon theruppō to be geuen / all thys he sayethe that euery man wo­man and childe may do as well as eny preste. Now doth hychen therfore to [...]et forthe thys opynyon wythall after hys masters herysye putte a waye the name of preste in hys translacyone / as thoughe prestehede were not [...]yng. where so euer the scrypture speketh of the prestys that were amonge the Iewes / there dothe he in hys [...]translacyon call theym styll by the name of prestis. But where so euer y ^e scrypture spek [...]th of the prestys of Christis chyrche / ther [...] doth he put away the name of prest in hys translacyō / bycause he wold make hyt se [...]e that the scrypture dyd neuer speke of eny prestys dyfferent from ley men amonge chrysten peple. And he sayeth playnly in hys boke of obedyēce that presthed and all holy orders amōg crysten peple be but faynyd inuētiōs / & that prestys be nothyng but offycers chosyn to preche / & y ^t all y ^e consecration wherby they be cōsecrate is not hynge worth. And for this cause ī all his trāslacyon where so euer he speketh of thē / [Page lxxxi] the name of pr [...]est whych to vs in oure own tōg hath alway sygnyfyed an en­ [...]ynted persō and wyth holy orders cō ­secrated vnto god / he hath chaungede in to the name of senyor no worde of our language / but eyther vsed halfe in mockage whā we speke frēch in sporte / dieu vous garde senior / or at the [...]er­dest nothynge betokenynge but elder. So that yt ys [...]the to se what he ment in the turnynge of these namys. ¶In good fayth quod your frende it semeth veryly y ^t he ment not well. ¶Surely quod I ye wolde well say so yf y [...] sawe all the placys whych I shall cause you to se when ye wyll / and ye shall soone iudge theym your selfe. For yt were to longe to reherse theym all now. Nor these haue I not rehersed you as for y ^e cheef / but for y ^t they cā fyrst to mynde. For ell [...]s I myght shortely reherse you many thyngys moo / as farre owte of tewne as theese be. For he chaungeth cōmenly the name of grace in to thys worde fauour / where as euery fauour ys not grace in englyshe / for in sū fa­ [...]our is there lytle grace. Confessyone he traunslateth in to knowledgynge. Penaunce in to repentaūce. A cōtryte herte he [...]haūgeth ī to a troubled hart. And many mo thingis lyke / and many [...]rtys vntrewly traūslated for y ^e mayn tenaūce of heresye as I shall shew you same when we loke in the boke. whych thyngis we shall not now reson vppon for they be not worthy to be brought ī questyone. But I telle you thys mych onely for this cause / y ^t ye may pe [...]ceyue that he hath thus vsed hym selfe in hys translacyone / to thentent that he wold sett forthe luthers heresyes & hys owne therby. For fyrst he wold make y ^e peple beleue y ^t we shuld byleue nothyng but playne scrypture / in whych poynt he techeth a playne pestylent heresye. & then wold he wyth hys false trāsla [...]yō make the peple beene ferther / y ^t such artycles of oure fayth as he laboreth to destroy / and which be well proued by holy scripture / were in holy scrypture nothynge spoke [...] of / but y ^t y ^e prech [...]s haue all this xv.C. yere myssreported y ^e gospell and englyshed y ^e scrypture wrong / to lede y ^e people purposely owte of y ^e ryght way.

¶The .ix. chapyter.

¶The author shewethe a nother grete token that the translaciō was ꝑyllous / & made for ā euyll purpose.

BUt to thētēt ye shall yet y ^e lesse doute what good [...]ra [...]te was ī tēded by thys trāslacyō / & easyly iudge your self whyther yt was well worthy to be burned or not / ye shall vnderstād y ^t there hath be synnys y ^e tyme a nother booke made in englysh & impryntyd as it sayeth ī Almayne / a folyshe rayling boke agaynst y ^e clergye and mich parte made in tyme / but y ^e effect therof was all agaynst y ^e masse & y ^e holy sacramētꝭ. In thys boke y ^e maker [...]ayleth vppō all them y ^t causyd Tyndals trāslacyon of the new testamēt to be burned / sayng y ^t they burnyd it bicause y ^t yt destroyed the masse. wherby ye may see that he rekenyd that translacyon very good for theyr purpose toward y ^• destruccyō of the masse. By saynt mary masse quod your frend that boke is a shrewd glose for y ^e tother. For yt shewed a cause for whyche yt was well worthy to be bur­nyd and the maker wyth yt / yf yt were made to destroye the masse. But who made that seconde boke? ¶For so [...] q I yt appereth not in the boke. For the boke ys put forthe namelesse / and was in the begynnyng rekened to be made by Tyndall. And whyther yt so were or not wee be not yet very sure. [...]ow be yt syth that tyme Tindall hath put owte in hys owne name a nother boke [...]tytled Māmona / which boke is [...]er [...] māmona iniquitatis / a very tresoury [Page] and well sprynge of wyckednes. And yet hathe he sythens put forth a wor [...] also named the obedyence of a crysten man / a boke able to make a crystē man that wolde byleue yt / leue of all good crysten vertues and lese the meryte of hys crystendom. In the preface of hys fyrst boke callyd Mammona he saith y ^• one frer [...] [...]erome made y ^e tother boke that we talke of / whych frere Syerome gyuyng vp hys order of the frere obseruauntys cam to hym where he was / shewyng hym that he wold caste of his abyte and leue hys relygyon / & assaye now to serue god / and that afterward he lefte hym and wentte vnto Roy / whyche ys as I thynke ye knowe a nother appostyta / by wose counsale Tyndale sayeth that the frere H [...]ero [...]e made y ^• boke / wherein Tyndall sayeth that he myslykyth hys rymys / and hys ouer mych raylynge. And sayethe also that he fereth leste frere Hyerome shall not well proue all y ^t he promyseth in that boke. ¶why q your frend is y ^t all the fere that he fyndeth in hym selfe and all the fawte that he fyndeth in y ^• frere and hys boke? ¶ye in good fayth quod I euery whytte. ¶Thā fyndethe he q your frende no faut in hys apostasye. ¶No more quod I than I shewe you. ¶Nor findeth he quod your frēde no faute in that the freres boke sayeth that the new testament of Tyndall was burnid bicause it stroyed y ^e masse? ¶Neuer a whytte q I more than you here. ¶And fereth he quod your frend no thyng ellys but leste the frere shuld [...]ayle of performing of sum what y ^t his boke promysythe ¶That is all quod I And what he promysyth therin I fayth I remember not. But yt semeth what so euer yt be / Tyndall wolde yt were well performed. ¶He had quod youre frende mych more cause as me thīketh to fere leste men shulde re [...]en hygh de­faute in hys translacyon / in that he nothynge answereth to those wordys of the [...]reres boke / wherin he sayeth that y ^• new testamente that was bur [...]yd dyd dystroy the masse ¶ye say quod I very trouth in my mynde / and so wold he of lyklyhed yf hym selfe had not mente as the frere sayd. But surely for the trans­lacyon I shall shew you so many textꝭ in suche wyse corruptede / that ye shall not I suppose greately doute what he ment in hys doynge. ¶And therewyth all I shewyd your frēde a boke wyth y ^• placys redy notyd / whych booke I had by lycence a lytyll before lent vnto me for the no [...]ys. wherein he saw so many corrupcyo [...]s / and of such maner sorte / that albeyt vppon some we somewhat resoned in the way / yet at the laste hy [...] self sayd ho / and verely confessyd y ^• the boke in such wyse translated was very nought & nothyng metely to be red.

The .x. chapyter.

¶The author shewyth y ^t y ^e trāsla [...]ō of Tyndal was to bad to be mēded.

BUt yet he sayd that the faw [...] myght be by sū good mē amē ­dyd / & than the boke prityd a­gayn if nothing letted but y ^•. ¶Surely quod I yf we go therto / the fawtys be as ye se so many & so spred through the hole boke / that lyke wyse as yt were as sone done to weue a new web of clothe as to sowe vppe euery hole in a net / so were it almost as litell labour and le [...]e to translate the hole boke all new / as to make in hys translacyon so many chaungys as nede mu [...]e be ere it were made good / besydys thys that there wold no wyse mā I trow take y ^• brede whych he well wyst was of hys enemy­es hand onis poysoned / though he saw his frend after scrape it neuer so clene.

The .xi. chapyter.

[Page lxxxii]¶The messenger fyndeth fawte w ^t the clergye / in y ^• he sayth they haue made a constytucyon prouyncyall y ^• no byble in englysh shold be suffred. And in thys chapyter incydently y ^• messenger mych reproueth y ^• lyuyng of the clergye. Whervnto y ^• author somwhat sheweth his mynd / deffer­rynge for the whyle hys answere to thobye [...]yon made agaynst the con­stytucyon.

S [...]r quod your frende I wyll not gretely s [...]ykke with you in that poynt. But surely the thyng y ^• maketh in this mater the clergye most suspect / and wherin as yt semeth yt wolde be full hard to excuse theym / is this / that they not onely d [...] ̄ [...]ne Tyndals tran­slacyon (wherin there is good cause) but euer that do dampne all other / & a [...] though a lay man were no crysten m [...]n / wyll suffer no ley man haue eny at all. But whan they fynde eny in hys [...]epyng / they lay heresye to hym ther­fo [...]e. And thervppon they burne vppe the boke and somtyme the good man wyth all / alledgyng for the defence of theyr doyng a law of theyr owne ma­kyng a cōstytucyon pro [...]yncyal / wher by they haue prohybyted that eny man shall haue eny vppon payn of heresye. And thys is a lawe very prouyncyall / for yt holdeth but here. For ī all other cūtrees of chrystēdome the people haue the scrypture trāslated īto theyr owne tong / and the clergye th [...]re fyndeth no [...]he fawte therin. Wherfore eyther our people is worste of all people / or ellys our clergye is wor [...]e of all cler­gyes. But by my trouth for aught that I can se here or perc [...]yue by them that ha [...] bene els where / our ley peple be as good & as [...] as be eny [...] And yf eny be other wyse / thoccasyon and exemple cōmeth of the clergy [...]/a­monge whome we se myche more vy [...]e thā among our selfe. ¶Where as they shold gyue vs example of vertue and y ^• lyght of lernyng / now theyr examples what they be we see. And as for ler­nynge / they neyther wyll teche vs but selde / and that shal be but such thyngꝭ as pleaseth theym som gloses of theyr own ma [...]yng / nor suffer vs to lerne by our selfe / but by theyr constytucyō pull Crystys gospell out of crysten peoples handys. I can not well se why but left we shold se the trouth. The Iewes be not letted to red theyr law both lerned and lewd. And yet are there in the old testament thyngys for vnlerned folke farre more straunge and peryllous thā in the new. And why sholde then ou [...] ley men be forboden the gospell / but yf they wyll make vs worse than Ie­wes? Wherin I can in good faith se no scuse they can fynde. For the scrypture is to good folk y ^• nouryssher of vertue / and to theym that be nauh [...] yt is the meane of amendement. And therfore whyle the clergye doth wyth [...] it vs / yf our soules be in good helth / they take a waye o [...]refode / yf our soules be [...]yke they take away y ^• medycyne. And therfore as I sayd the f [...]ut is not in y ^• damnyng of Tyndals translacyō / but in that they haue by an expresse lawe forboden that we shold haue eny at al ¶Your wordys quod I be somwhat poy [...]naūt and sharpe. But surely they pry [...] somwhat more the men th [...]n the mater. For where y [...] towche in effecte two thyngys / [...] the constytucion pr [...] uyncyall by whych yt thynke the cler­g [...] [...] haue euyll pro [...]byted all [...] of sc [...]ypt [...] in to [Page] our tonge / a nother the vycys of y ^e clergye in generall / the fyrst poynt whych in dede towcheth our mater / I can and wyll wyth fewe wordys answere you. But as for y ^• other whych toucheth the men / as where ye accuse the clergye in theyr ꝑsons of very vycious lyuyng as mē mych worse thā ye say that we be / and yet as though theyr owne fautys were to few / charge theym wyth ours to / wherof ye call theym the cause / in thys poynt wyl I kepe no scolys wyth you / nor entre in to dyspycions therof / nor gladly medle wyth the mater. For as I told you in the begynnynge syth we talke but of mennys lernynge / I wyll not medle of mennys lyuynge / nor in y ^e treatyng of thys mater eyther prayse or dysprayse eny mānys maner / except some such as are for theyr here­syes & euyl doctryne cast out of Crystꝭ chyrch / and through all Crystendome dampned & dy [...]famed all redy by theyr owne obstynate malyce. But yet wher ye speke of other contrees / makyng an argumēt that our clergye is the worst of all other / I wote well y ^• hole world is so wreched that spyrytuall and temporall euery where all be bad ynoughe god make vs all better. But yet for y ^t I haue my selfe sene / and by credyble folke haue herd / lyke as ye say by oure temperalytye that we be as good and as honest as eny where elles / so d [...]re I boldely saye that the spyrytualytye of englande / and specyally that p [...]rt [...] in whyche ye fynde most faute / that is to wytte that parte whyche we comenly call the secular clergye / is in lernynge & honest lyuyng well able to m [...]che & (sauyng y ^t cōparysōs be odyoꝰ I wold saye ferther) far able to ouer m [...]tch [...] nomber for nōber the spyrytu [...]lyte of eny nacyon crysten. I wote well there be therin many very lewde & naught. And surely wher so euer there is a multytude / yt is not without myracle wel possyble to be otherwyse. But now yf y ^• bysshopys wolde onys take vnto presthed better ley mē and fewer (for of vs be they made) all the mater were more than half amēded. Now where ye saye that ye se more vyce in theym th [...]n in our selfe / trouth yt is that euery thyng in theym is gretter / bycause they be more bounden to be better. But ellys the thyngys that they mysdo / be y ^• self same that we synne in our selfe which vycys that as ye say we se more in thē than in our selfe / y ^• cause ys I suppose / for we loke more vppon theyrs thā on our own / and fare as Esope sayth in a fable / that euery mā caryeth a dowbl [...] walet on hys sholder / & in to the tone that hangeth at his breste he putteth other folkys fawtys / and therī he tooteth and poreth often / In the tother he layeth vp all hys owne and swyn­geth yt at hys backe / whyche hym self neuer lysteth to loke in / but other that cū after hym cast an eye in to yt amōg. Wold god we were all of the mynde y ^t euery mā thought no man so badde as hym self. For y ^t were the waye to mend bothe theym and vs. Now they blame vs / and we blame thē / and both bl [...]me worthy / and eyther parte more redy to fynde others fawtys than to mende theyr owne. For in reproche of thē we be so studyous / that neyther good nor bad passeth vnreproued. Yf they be fa­mylyer we call them lyght. Yf they be solytary we call theym fantastyke. Yf they be sadde we call theym solempne. Yf they be mery we call theym madde. Yf they be cūprynable we call theym [Page lxxxiii] bycyouse. Yf th [...]y b [...] holy we call them vpocrytys. Yf they kepe few seru [...] ­tys we call them nyggardys. If they kepe many we call them pompose. If a lewd [...] preste do a lewd dede than we say / l [...]se what s [...]mple the clergye gy­ueth vs / as though that preste were y ^e clergye. But th [...]n forgete we to loke wh [...]t good men be theri [...]/and what good counsayle they gyue vs / & what good example they sh [...]we vs. But we fa [...]e as do the r [...]uens and the car [...] crowys that neuer [...]dyll wyth eny [...]uycke flesshe. But where they maye fynde a dede dogge in a dyche / therto they [...]l [...] and theron they fede a pace. So where we se a good man / and here or se a good thyng / there we take lytell hede. But whan we see onys an euyll [...]ede / theron we gape / therof we talke and fede oure selfe all day [...] wyth th [...] fylthy delyte of euyll cōmunycacyo [...] Lette a good man preche / a shorte ta­le shall [...] a preste gyuen lyghte to the people that was but very yonge. ¶Mary quod I god forbede ellys / ye maye se that often and ye wyll. ¶Trewly quod he yt ys pytye that we see suche lyghte so selde / beynge thys wreched worlde in suche darkenesse as yt ys. For I neuer sawe yt but onys. Nor as yt semede fewe of the people n [...]y­ther. For in faythe they wondred as faste theron as thoughe they hadde neuer sene yt byfore. ¶Howe happed that quod I. ¶Mary quod he yt hap­ped that a yonge preste very deuoutel [...] in a processyon / bare a [...]andell byfore the crosse for lyenge wy [...]h a wenche / [...] bare yt lyghte all the longe waye. Wherein the people toke suche spyry­tuall pleasure and inwarde solace / that th [...]y lawhged a [...]. And on [...] mery marchaunte sayde vnto the pre­stys that folowed hym / [...] [Page] whyche fell in to the curse of hys fa­ [...]er Noe / for that he m [...]de a g [...]de & shewed forthe in skorne the secrete members of hys father / that of aduen­ture lay and slepte vncouered / whyche partys Sem and Iaphet the blyssed chylderen [...]rently couered / goynge backward [...] to hym bycause they wold not se hym. And surely we h [...]ue lytell [...]awse to lawghe at theyr lewdnesse. For vndou [...]y yf the clergye be nought we muste nedys be worse / as I herde [...]nys mayster Colett the good deane of powlys preche. For he sayde that yt can be none other / but that we muste [...] be one degree vnder theym. For surely as he sayde yt can be no lye that our sauyours [...]aythe hym selfe / whyche saythe of theym that they be salt of the erthe. And y [...] [...]alte onys ap [...]lle / the worlde [...] were all knowen to go about and tell theym by the pollys / to se whyche syde were the more. And therfor [...] in the menne whyle I truste in god the bet­ter parte ys the gretter. Howe be yt y [...] there were in dede amonge theym ve­ry fewe / yet thynke I veryly that for those fewe all the worlde fa [...]th the better / and ys in theyre ver [...] and praye [...] by goddys grete mercy [...] ­ [...]yned and vpholden / as we fynde in scrypture placys [...] one / [...] ­cla [...]ynge playnely the pro [...]y [...] that an hole synfull [...] some tyme [...] hole regyon / taketh by the prayer of a fewe godly men. And no dow [...] ys there but lyke wyse as he that ys in the clergy [...] nought [...]/ys farre the worse bycawse he ys therin / so he that ther­in ys good / ys fo [...] hys clergye [...] farre the better / and hys prayer to g [...] for hym selfe & all other farre the [...] [...]ylable.

¶The .xii. chapyter.

[...]

[...] [Page lxxxiiii] goodnesse wherof hys nowghtyn [...] can not appayre / that be he neuer so vycyouse and therwyth so impenytent and so farre frome all purpose of amendement / that hys prayers were afore the face of god reiected and abhorred / yet that sacred sacryfyce and swete oblacyon of Crystys holy bodye offred vppe by hys offyce / can take none em­payrynge by the fylthe of hys synne / but hyghly helpeth to the vpholdynge of thys wretched worlde frome the vengeaunce of the wrathe of god / and ys to god as accep [...]able and to vs as auaylable for the thynge yt selfe / as though yt were offred by a better mā / thoughe pe [...]case hys prayers ioyned therwyth neyther mych profytt other / nor the oblacyon hym selfe / as wyth whom god ys the more gretely gre­ued / in that beynge soo badde he dur­ste presume to towche yt. ¶Mary quod your frende yf thys be thus I meruayle than why yt sayde ryghte now that yt were good to make fewer prestys / that they myght be taken o­nely of the better / and the worse refu­sed. For yf theyr mas [...]s be so good for vs be theym selfe neuer so nawght [...]/than semeth yt better for vs to m [...]ke yet mo thoughe they were yet worse / y ^• we myght haue mo mas [...]ys. ¶Th [...]t reason quod I wyll not holde. For though god of hys goodnesse how bad so euer the preste be / well accepteth y ^e oblacyō of Crystys holy body for other folke / yet ys he wyth that prestys pre­sumpcyon hyghly dyscontented. And we neuer ought to seke our own cōmo­dy [...]e with our neyghbours harme. And also we shold of our dute to god / rather forbere y ^e profyte y ^t our selfe myght at­tayne by a masse / thā to se his maieste dysreuerēced / by y ^e bold presūpcyon o [...] of such an odyouse mynyster as he hath forboden to come about hym. Lyke as yf ye sent a psent vnto a prynce whych were very pleasaūt vnto hym / though y ^• messenger mych myslyked hym so far y ^t he had bē forboden y ^e court / yet yf ye were not ware therof / your gyft could not lese his thāk / but his malepert boldenes myght ꝑaduenture be punysshed and well were worthy to be. But on y ^e tother syde yf ye knewe the messenger for suche as the prynce wolde not haue come at hym / ye wold rather kepe your present at home and forbere the thāke / than wyttyngly to sende yt by suche [...] menssenger / or ellys though your pre­sent were very grete / your thāke wold be very lytell. And surely in lyke ma­ner wyse who so surely knoweth a preste to be nawght / vycyouse / and in dedely dyspleasure of god / sholde gete I thynke lytel thanke yf he mad [...] hym saye masse. And therfore well shall the prelatys do / as myche as they maye to prouyde / that god shall ra­ther be more seldome presented wyth the pleasaunte present of the masse / than more often offended wyth a dys­pleasaunte messenger. And veryly were all the bysshoppes of my mynde (as I knowe some that be) ye sholde not of prestys haue the plentye that y [...] haue. The tyme hathe ben whan there were very fewe in a grete cytye / and in a monastery of fyue hundred in one howse / scantely wolde there foure monkys be bolde to be prestys. Than was all holy orders in hyghe honoure. Than fynde we that the de­gre of a de [...]en was a grete thyng and of such dygnyte / that whan one of thē wente sometyme in pylgrymage / he [Page] wolde not be aknowen of hys order / bycause he wolde not that folke sholde do hym worshyppe in the waye. But as for now a dayes yf he be de [...] and preste to / he shall nede to fere no suche pryde / but rather rebuke and vylany. which though yt haue happened by the lacke of vertue amonge theym / and decay of deuocyon amonge vs / yet hath myche of all thys gere growen by the meane of so grete a nomber of prestys & so famylyer among vs. whych thyng nedys must mynysshe on our parte reuerence and estymacyon toward theym / whych we neuer haue but in thyngys rare & scarse. Golde wold we not set by yf yt were as comē as chalke or clay. And wherof is there now such plentie as of prestys? ¶In fayth q he there is more plētie of prestys thā of good mē / & ther be to many but yf they were better chosen. ¶Doutlesse q I there wold be more dylygēce vsed in y ^e choyce / not of theyr lernyng onely / but mych more specyally of theyr lyuynge. For wyth out vertue the better they be lerned y ^e worse they be / sauyng that lernyng is good store agaynst god sende thē grace to mende. Whych ellys yt wold be thā happely to late to loke for / specyally yf y ^e prouerbe were true that ye spake of / that yf a preste be good than he is olde. But thys ys a very suretye that yt ys not well possyble to be wythout many very naught of that company / wherof there is suche a maygne multytude. The tyme was as I say / whan fewe men durst presume to take vppon them the hyghe offyce of a preste / not euen whā they were chosen and called ther vnto. Now ronneth euery rascall and boldely offreth hym self for able. And where the dygnyte passeth al pryncys / and they that lewd be / desyreth yt for worldely wynnynge / yet cometh that sorte therto wyth such a made mynde / that they [...]eken almoost god mych boū den to theym that they vouchesaufe to take yt. But were I pope. ¶By my soule quod he I wold ye were / and my lady your wyfe popesse to. ¶Well q I than shold she deuyse for nonnes. And as for me towchynge the choyce of pre­stys / I wolde not well deuyse better prouysyons than are by the lawes of the chyrche prouyded all redy / yf they were as well kept as they be well ma­de. But for the nomber / I wold surely se suche a way therein / that we sholde not haue suche a rabell / y ^t euery meane man must haue a preste in hys house to wayte vppon hys wyfe / whych no mā all most lacketh now / to the contempt of prestehed in as vyle offyce as hys horse keper. ¶That is quod he trouth in dede and in worse to / for they kepe haukꝭ and doggys. And yet me semeth surely a more honeste seruyce to wayte on an horse than on a dogge. And yet I suppose yf the lawes of the chyrche whyche Luther and Tyndall wolde haue all broken were all well obser­ued and kept / thys gere sholde not be thus / but the nombre of prestys wolde be myche mynyss [...]ed and the remanaūt mych the better. For yt is by the lawes of the chyrche prouyded to the entent no preste sholde vnto the sclaunder of prestehedde be dreuen to lyue in suche lewde maner or worse / there sholde none be admytted vnto prestehed / vn­tyll he haue a tytell of a suffycyent yerely lyuynge / eyther of hys owne patrymony or other wyse. Nor at thys daye they be none otherwyse accepted. ¶Why quod he wherfore go there thā [Page lxxxvi] so many of theym a beggyng? ¶Mary quod I for they delude the law and thē selfe also. For they neuer haue gr [...]unt of a lyuyge that maye serue theym in syght for y ^e purpose / but they secretely dyscharge yt ere they haue yt / or ellys they cowlde not gete yt. And thus the bysshop is blynded by the syght of the wrytyng / & the preste goth a beggyng for all hys graunt of a good lyuynge / and the law is deluded / and the order is rebuked by the prestys beggynge and lewde lyuynge / whyche eyther is fayne to walke at rouers and lyue vppon trentalles or worse / or ellys to serue in a seculer mānys house / whych shold not nede yf thys gappe were stopped. For ye sholde haue prestys fewe ynough yf y ^e law were truely obserued that none were made / but he that were wythout colusyon sure of a lyuyng all redy. ¶Than myght yt h [...]p quod he y ^t ye myght haue to fewe to serue the ro­mys and lyuyngys y ^t be prouyded for theym except / the prelatys wolde pro­uyde that orders were not so comenly gyuen / but alway receyue in to orders as romys & lyuyngꝭ fall v [...]yde to by­stowe theym in and no faster. ¶ [...] ­rely quod I for aught I se sodaynly / that wold not be myche amys [...]e. For so shold they nede no such tytles at al nor shold nede neytheyr ron at rouers / nor lyue in lay mennys howses / by reason wherof there groweth among no lytle corrupcyon in the prestys maners / by the conuersacyon of lay people & cōpa­ny of women in theyr howses. ¶Nay by oure lady quod he I wyll not agree wyth you therin. For I thynke they cā not lyghtly mete wyth mych worse company than theym selfe / and that they rather corrupt vs than we them.

¶The .xiii. chapyter.

¶The messenger moueth y ^t yt wold do well y ^t prestys shold haue wyuys wherunto y ^e author maketh answer.

BUt I wold wene it wold amēd myth ꝑte of this mater / yf they myghte haue wyuys of theyre owne ¶Mary q I so sayth luther & Tyndal also / sauyng y ^t they go sūwhat ferther forth. For Tyndall (whose bookys be nothīg els ī effect but y ^e worst heresyes pyked out of Luthers workys / & Lu­thers worst wordꝭ translated by Tyndall / & put forth in Tyndals own na­me) doth in his frātyke boke of obedyē ce (wherin he rayleth at large agaynst all popes / agaīst all kyngꝭ agaynst all prelatys / all pres [...]ꝭ / all relygyous / all the lawes / all the sayntys / agaynst the sacramētys of Crystꝭ chyrch / al agaīst vertuous workys / agaynst all dyuyne seruyce / and fynally agaynst all thyng in effecte y ^e good is) in that boke I say Tyndal holdeth y ^e prestꝭ must haue wy [...]ys. And y ^t he groundeth wysely vpō y ^e wordys of saynt Poule / where he wryteth to Thimotheus / Oportet episco­pum esse irreprehensibilem vnius vxo­ [...]is virū. That a bysshop must be a mā vnreproueable / and y ^e husbande of one wyfe. And that yt muste be consydered whether he haue well brought vp hys chyldren / and well gouerned hys housholde. By these wordys doth Tyndall after Luther conclude for a playn mater / that prestys must nedys haue wy­ [...]es / and that saynt Poule wold there shold in no wyse be none other prestys but maryed folke. Is yt not now a wō der wyth what spectacles Luther and Tyndall haue spyed thys thynge now in these wordys of saynt Powle. In whyche of so many grete connyng [...] [...] ­thers [Page] and holy sayntys as haue often redde / and depely cōsydered those wor­dys before / there was neuer none that had eyther the wytte or the grace to ꝑceyue that grete specyal cōmaundemēt thys .xv.C. yere / tyll now y ^e god hathe at last by reuelacyō shewed thys hygh secrete mystery to these .ii. goodly crea­tures Luther and Tyndall / leste that holy frere shold haue lost his maryage of that holy nonne / and Tyndall some good maryage that I thynke hym to­warde. Tyndal nothing answereth in his boke to that poynt / but rōneth and rayleth ouer wythout reson / and sayth that the scrypture ys playne therin for hym. And euer he passeth ouer as thouh he herd it not that al the holy doctours that euer were in Crystꝭ chyrch / sayen that the scrypture whych he alledgeth to be very playn for him / is very playn agaynst hym as it is in dede. For saynt poule in that place / for as mych as yet at that tyme excepte none but yong mē shold haue bē prestꝭ / which he thought not comenly conuenyent / ellys coulde they make no prestys then / but suche as eyther were or had ben maryed / ther­fore thappostle hauing in the choyse of prestys a specyall respecte to chastyte / and wyllyng to go as [...]ere to no wyfe as myght be / dyd ordayne as god had instructed hym / that who so euer shold be admytted to presth [...]d / sholde be the husband of one wyfe. Meanyng suche as then had or byfore had had no mo but one / & that neuer had had twayn. He meaned not as mad Luther & Tyndall wold now make the world so [...]d to byleue that a prest must nedys ha [...]e one / nor that he may neuer lac [...]e one / nor y ^t he may haue one after a nothe [...]/ [...]or the onely forbyddyn [...] of twain at onys / but he ment only that non shold be admytted to presthed but onely such a man as neuer had had nor shold haue but onely one. whyche ys the thynge y ^t euer was & hath bene by those wordys vnderstanden. And not onely where saynt Powle taught / but also thorow crystendome / where the other apostles planted the fayth / hath yt euer ben so obserued. Whych is a playne profe that concernynge the prohybycyon / of eny mo wyuys then one / and the forbydi [...]g of bygamy by y ^e weddyng of one wyfe after a nother / was the specyall ordy­naunce of god / and of saynt Powle. whose epystles wherin he wryteth eny thynge of thys mater / was peraduen­ture not comen to the handys of other apostles / whan they toke yet the same order by the same spyryte that taught yt hym. For thys is certayn that euer & euery where in crystendom the byga­my of two wyues eche after other / hath ben a let and impedyment agaynst the the takynge of holy orders / and hath of long tyme ben a let / though the [...]one wyfe had ben maryed and buryed by­fore the mannys baptysme. And nowe these two wyse men agaynst the olde holy fathers and connyng doctours / & agaynst y ^e cōtynuall custume of Crystꝭ chyrch so many hūdred yeres bygōne / and contynued by the spyryte of god / haue spyed at last y ^e saynt Powle sayth and meaneth that a preste maye marye [...]wyse & haue one wyfe after a nother and that he must so haue. For by Tyn­dall a prest must euer haue one wyfe at y ^e lest. And surely yf we leue y ^e trew vnd [...]standyng of saynt Powlys wordꝭ and byleue Tyndall / that yt ys there ment and comaunded bycause of thys worde [...]/that a prest muste haue [Page lxxxvi] one / then may Tyndall as for y ^e place tell vs that a prest ys at lybertye to haue twayne at onys or twentye and he wyll / bycawse saynt Powle saythe no more but that the bysshop muste be the husband of one wyfe. Whych wordys Tyndall maye tell vs be veryfyed / yf he be y ^e husbād of .x. wyuys. For y ^e hus­bād of .x. wyuys were y ^e husbād of one / as y ^e father of ten chyldren is y ^e father of one / yf y ^e wyuys were as cōpatyble as y ^e chyldrē be / as it is no dout but Luther and Tyndall wold sone make thē by scrypture / yf theyr owne interpeta­cyō may be taken for authoryte / agaīst the perceyuing that god hath gyuen to all good crysten people this .xv.C. yere Now as I say vppō Tyndals takyng saīt Poule shold men [...] not that a preste sholde haue b [...]t one wyfe (for y ^t but is not [...] [...]aīt Powlꝭ wo [...]dꝭ) but he sholde mene y ^t a preste muste haue one at the le [...]e / as though saīt Poule had leuer y ^t y ^e preste had .xx. sa [...]e for ouercharging. Yet yt semeth that Tyndall so take yt in dede / and that a preste might haue dyuers wyues at onys / specyally for the grete reason that he setteth therto. For where as saynt Poule syth there was at that [...]yme lytel choyse to make prestꝭ of but maryed men / wylled therfore that in the choyse of the bysshoppe there shold be consydered howe he had gouerned hys owne howsehold / by­cause he that had mystatched his wyfe and hys chyldren / were vnmete for a gret cure / therfore sayth Tyndal that neuer shold ther eny prest be made / but but such as hath a wyfe and chyldren & by the gouernaunce of theym shewed / y ^t he is mete to bere a rule / as thoughe we neuer saw eny man that neuer had wyfe / gouerne an housholde better th [...] ̄ many that haue had fyue. And yf the hauyng & good rulyng of a wyfe be so specyall a profe of a man mete to be a preste as Tyndall taketh yt / then syth saynt Powle after Tyndals interpretacyon can not appere to forbede the hauyng of dyuers wyues togyder / best were yt after Tyndall specyally to make that man a prest that had many wyues and all at onys / and many chyldren by eche of theym / yf he guyde thē all well. For more profe is it of a wyse gouernoure to rule well fyue wyues / than one / & fourty chyldrē then foure. But now that euery chylde may se the wysdom of Tyndall and hys mayster Luther in the construccyō of holy scry­pture / wherof he speketh so myche and vnderstandeth so lytell / I beseche you consyderlyke wordys of saynt Powle in a myche lyke mater. Saynt Powle as he wryteth to Thimotheus that a bysshop must be y ^e husbād of one wyfe / so wryteth he also to him / y ^t no wydow shold be specyally chosen and taken in to be foundē of y ^e goodes of the chyrche that were yonger then .lx. yere / and y ^t she shold be one that had ben the wyfe of one husbande. Nowe set these two [...]e [...]ys togyder of the bysshop and the wydowe / and consyder the wordys of one wyfe in the tone / and one husbād in the tother / yf we shal after Tyndal take the tone wordys for the bysshop / y ^t saynt Powle shold meane not that he haue or haue had but one wyfe / but y ^t he must nedys haue one wyfe / than must we lykewyse take the wordꝭ spo­ken by saynt Powle of the wydowe / as though saynt Powle sholde meane not a wydowe whyche had neuer had mo than one husband / but a wydow y ^t had had one husband / as though saynt [Page] Poule had nothyng fered nor forbode / but lest Timotheus shold take in such a wydow as neuer had no husbande at all. Were not thys wysely construed? Now yf Tyndall wyll agree as he nedys must but yf he be mad / that saynt Powle in gyuyng cōm [...]undemēt that the wydow sholde be suche as had had one husband / ment therby such one as neuer had had mo than one / thē muste he nedys graunt and hys mayster Lu­ther to / that saynt Powle in lykewyse where he sayde that a bysshop must be a good man and y ^e husband of one wyfe / ment that he must neuer haue nor haue had eny mo than one. And not that he must nedys haue one / or that he must haue one at the leste / and myght haue many mo than one / eyther eche after other or all togyder and he lyst. And in thys mater hathe Tyndall no shyfte [...] For sythe thys worde one in one wyfe and one husbande / was not by saynt [...] Poule set in for nought. It must nedꝭ sygnyfye eyther that there sholde be no mo but one / or that there sholde be one at the lest. Yf he shold mene that a bys­shop sholde haue one wyfe at the le [...]te / and that the wydowe sholde h [...]ue had one husbande at the leste / than wolde he rather that they shold haue mo than so fewe / whyche euery man seeth how folysshe that construccyon is. Now yf Tyndall wyll say that by thys worde one / saynt Powle ment there shold be but one wyfe at onys and one husband at onys / thā dyd saynt Powle so speke of the bysshop as though he had sayd / a bysshop must be a good man and haue but one wyfe at onꝭ. In whych wordꝭ Tyndall had loste hys purpose. For so were onely a prohybycyon for eny mo than one / and no cōmaundement but a bare permyssyon for one. And yet were yt lytell to purpose / for in saynt Pou­lys dayes a lay man had but one wyfe at onys. And the foly of thys construc­cyon appereth in the wordys spoken of saint Poule in y ^e choyse of the wydow / wherin Tyndall wolde by thys waye make saynt Poule to say thus. Take & [...]hese in but such a wydow as hath had but one husbande at onys / as thoughe the gyse were in his days that wyuys myght haue two husbandys at onys. ¶ In fayth quod your frend I thynke saynt Powle ment not so. For thē had wyuys ben in his time lytel better thā grasse wydowes be now. For they be yet as seuerall as a barbours chayre / & neuer take but one at onꝭ. ¶In fayth quod I the foly of suche folke doth wel appere that seke in y ^e scrypture of god suche newe construccyons agaynst the very sense that god hathe thys .xv.C. yere so taught his hole chyrch / that ne­uer was there pope so coueytous yet y ^e durst dyspence in this poynt / seyng the consent of Crystys chyrche so full and hole there in / and the mynde of saynt Poule so clere to suffre onely one wyth vtter exclusyon of eny mo than one / y ^• who so euer wold constrew hym other wyse / must nedys fall in to suche open folyes as Tyndall & Luther do. And thus ye se how substauncyally Tyndal and hys mayster cōstrue the scrypture / & wyth what authoryte they conferm [...] thys noble new doctryn [...] of theyrs / b [...] whych they wold cōdempne all Crystē dom as brekers of the lawe of god / as lōge as they suffer not any preste take a wyfe / or rather as longe as they suf­fer hym to be wythout a wyfe. For wyues they must nedys haue by Tyndals tale whyther they wyl or no. ¶By my [Page lxxxviii] trouth quod your frende yf Tyndall & Luther haue none other holde thā that place of saīt poule / they be lykely to take a fall. But I thīk they say more thā that. ¶Surely quod I Tyndall hath a nother reason in dede. He sayth that chastyte is an excedīg seledome gyfte / and vnchastyte excedyng perylous for that estate. And theron he concludeth that prestys muste nedes haue wyues. But now what yf a man wolde deny hym though chastyte be a grete gyfte / y ^t yet yt is a seledome gyft. For though yt be rare and seledome in respecte of y ^e remanaūte of the people that haue yt not / yet is yt not seledome in dede / for many men haue yt. And Cryst sayth y ^e al mē take it not / but he sayth not that no man taketh yt / nor that fewe men take yt. And hyghly he cōmēdeth them that for hys sake do take yt. What in­cōuenyence is yt than to take in to his specyall seruyce men of that sorte that he moste specyally cōmendeth? Or yf we graūted to Tyndal that fewe men can lyue chaste / whych is playne false (for many hath done & doth) but now yf we dyd I saye graūte hym y ^t thyng / though he myght ꝑaduenture thervpō conclude / y ^t there shold not be so many prestys made and bounden to chastyte as coulde not lyue chaste / yet coulde he not cōclude as he now cōcludeth / that no preste shold be suffred to lyue chast / but that euery preste muste nedes haue a wyfe. For thys is hys argumēt. Few mē cā lyue chast / ergo euery prest must take a wyfe. Yf we shold impugne the fourm [...] of thys argument / Tyndall wolde rayle and saye we medle wyth sophystrye / and wyse men wolde say we were Idely occupyed to laboure to shew that foly y ^e so euydently sheweth yt selfe. And therfore we shal lette hi [...] wyse argument alone / syth yt su [...]yseth vs that euery man y ^t any wytte hath / may well se that vppon hys vnreaso­nable reason / one of two thyngis must nedes folowe / eyther y ^• Cryste in com­mendyng ꝑpetuall chastyte / dyd com­mende a thyng not cōmēdable / or elles yf euery prest must nedys haue a wyfe / thā were yt not laufull to make a prest of that sorte y ^t ys of godꝭ owne mouth cōmended. ¶Surely quod your frende me thynke they go ferre therin to say y ^e prestis must nedꝭ haue wyues. But me thynke that thys they myght well say and I to / that yt is not well done to bynde theym wyth a lawe / that they shall haue none / but yt may be well done to suffer theym haue wyues that wolde as they haue in walys. And I here say that in Allmaygne they fynde grete case therin. For lyke as here the good wyfe kepeth her husbād from her maydys / so there the persons wyfe ke­peth her husbād from all the wyuys in the pary [...]he. ¶As for walys quod I ye be wronge enformed / for wyuysha [...]e they not. But trouth yt is y ^e incōty [...]ēte is there in some place lytell loked vn­to / wherof my [...]he harme groweth in y ^e cuntrye. And as for Allmaygne suche parte therof as that is vsed in / whych is onely where Luthers secte is recey­ued / who so consyder well what cōmo­dyte hath cūmen to theym by such vn­godly wayes / I thynke shall haue no grete fantysye to folow theym. ¶Well quod he lette Walys and Allmaygne go / yet prestꝭ had wyuys of olde whē they were better thā they be now. And yet haue in grece where they be better than they be here. ¶ As for the prestys of gre [...]e I wyll not dysprayse theym [Page] quod I / for I knowe theym not. But somewhat was not well there / that god hathe suff [...]ed all that empyre to fall in to hethen mennys handꝭ. And yet be they not there so lose as ye teken theym. For thoughe a wedded mā taken there in to the clergye be not nor can be put frome hys wyfe / but is there suffred to mynyster in the offyce of a preste not w ^tstandynge hys maryage / yet yf he be vnmaryed at the tyme that he taketh prestehed / be than professeth perpetual contynence / and neuer maryeth after / as I haue lerned by suche as haue comen frome thense. ¶Now where ye speke of olde tyme / surely ye shall vnderstand that there maryed not so many as y [...] wold happely wene. ¶ Peraduenture quod he no more there wold now. Some of thē wold haue no wyuys though y ^• law were set at large. For as a good felow sayd onys to hys frendys y ^e mer [...]ayled why he maryed not / and thought hym vnnatural yf he cared not for y ^• cōpany of a woman / he sayd vnto thē y ^t he had leuer lese a fynger thā lacke a woman. But he had leuer lacke y ^e hole hand thā haue a wyfe. So yf y ^e prestys were at lybertye / some of y ^e worst sort wold yet I wene rather haue womē thā wyuꝭ. But other that wolde be more honeste / wolde I suppose be maryed. And yet wolde some peraduenture lyue in per­petuall contynence as fewe do now. ¶ God forbede q I. ¶Well q he they y ^• wold / were not restrayned. But yf I shall be bold to say what I thyn [...]/it semeth me surely a very hard thīge y ^t y ^e chyrche sholde make a lawe to bynde a [...] man to chastyte magry hys te [...]he / to whyche god wolde neuer bynd [...] eny man. ¶The chyrche quod I byndeth no mā to chastyte. ¶That is trouth q he except a preste be a man. ¶ ye mysse take the mater quod I as I shall shew you after. ¶ There wolde quod he ma­ny ha [...]mys be auoyded / & myche good wold there grow therof / yf they might haue wyuys that wolde. ¶ What good or harme quod I wolde come therof the profe wolde shewe / wherin we myght be the more bolde to trust well / were yt not that we nowe fynde yt naught in Saxony where we newly se yt assayed. And as for that ye spake of olde tyme whan the prestys were better / surely as I wolde yf ye had not stopped me haue sayde ferther byfore. we ꝑceyue well by the wryters of olde tyme / that of those good men very few were maryed. And none in effect after that offyce taken. And many suche as had wyuys byfore / wyllyngly wyth theyre wyuys ass [...]nte forbate the car­nall vse of theym. And syth the good or harme growynge of the mater beste apper [...]th by the profe / besyde thexpe­ryence that we haue now in Saxony where thys chaunge ys bygonne wyth an infynyte hepe of heresyes / yt ys ethe to see that the good fathers why­che gaue theyr aduyce to the maky [...]ge of that lawe / wyth the thynge almost receyued in generall custome byfore / and wyth the consente of all crysten­dome in effecte that ratefyed and receyued yt after / hadde a good ꝓfe ther­of / and fownde thys the be [...]te waye byfore the lawe made / and there fore I wyll not dyspute wyth you therevppon. But for as myche as ye laye vnreasonablenesse to theyre charge that made yt / bycawse they bynd men as ye [...]eken agaynst theyr wyll to chastyte / somewhat were yt [Page lxxxix] th [...]t ye saye / yf the chyrche compelled eny mā to be preste. But now whā [...] ry mā [...]s at hys lyb [...]te n [...]t to be prest bu [...] at thys plesure / [...] can eny [...] say that the chyrch layeth a b [...]nde of chastyte in eny mannysn [...] agaynst hys wyll? The chyrch doth in effect [...] ferther but prouyd [...]/that where as m [...] ̄ wyll of theyr owne myndys som lyue ch [...]st and som wyll not / the myny [...] of the sacrament shall be taken of th [...]t sorte only / that wyll be conte [...]t to pr [...]fes [...] chastyte. Wherwyth wh [...]so fyn­deth fawt / blameth not onely the clergye but also the temp [...]ralyte / whyche be and haue ben all thys whyle [...] in the auth [...]ryte of the [...] and conser [...]acyon of thys l [...]we. [...] of there can no m [...]n bla [...]e the [...]syō / but yf he be tyth [...]in that [...] y ^• he thynke that the [...] is no more pleas [...]unte to g [...] [...] the prestys of the temple for the tym [...] of theyr mynystracyon for [...]re theyr owne h [...]use and the company of theyr wy [...]ys. And therfore they s [...]r [...]d the temple by course / as yt well app [...]reth in the begynnyng of saynt Lu [...]ys gospell. So y ^• ch [...]styte was thought both to god and man a thynge m [...]e and cō ­uenyēt for prestys / amon [...] thē whych most magnyfyed carnall generacyon. And th [...]n how myche more specyally now to y ^e pre [...]ys of Cryst / whych was b [...]the borne of a vyrgyn / and lyued [...] dyed [...] [...]rgyn hym self / and exhor [...]ed all hys to the same? whose counsayl i [...] th [...]t poynt [...]ythe some be content to fo­low and [...] to lyue otherwyse / wh [...]t w [...]y w [...]re I say more metely th [...]n to take in to Crystys tēple to serue about th [...] sacr [...]ent / onely such as be of that s [...]r [...] that ar [...] content and mynded to [...] [Page] order of the chyrch therin be better thā the contrary / good men and wyse mē bothe had the profe of bothe byfore the lawe made / & yt well allowed thorow crystendom long tyme synnys. Whych ere I wold assent to chaunge / I wold se a better author therof / than such an heretyque as Luther / and Tyndall / & a better sample than the sedycyous and scysmatyque prestys of Saxony. ¶Surely quod he ye haue well declared the chyrch towchyng that law. But what so euer y ^e cause be / by my trouth nought they be / and as farre worse than we / as they be boundē to be better / and yet be we the worse for theym. ¶There be quod I many ryght good among thē / and ellys were yt wrong [...] wyth vs. And many be there bad also / and some the worse for vs. But whyther parte is the better or the worse / wyll I not dyspute. But thys wyll I say that yt were best that they thought theym selfe the worse / and we our selfe / and euery mā hym selfe [...]. ¶I wolde that we were all in [...] wyth our own [...]tys as my father saythe that we [...] wyth our wyuys. For wh [...]n [...] folke blame wyuy [...] and say that the [...] be so many of theym shrewes / he sayth that they dy [...]ame thē falsely. For he saythe playnly that there is but one [...]ewde wyfe in y ^e worlde / but he sayth in dede that euery man weneth he hathe ben / and that y ^e [...] is hys owne. So wold I fayne that [...]u [...]ry man wolde wene there were [...] one man na [...]ght in all y ^e hole [...] and that [...] hym selfe. And that he wold thervppō [...]o about to [...] that one [...] and th [...] wold all [...]. [...]hych t [...]ng we shold shortly [...] yf we wold [...] our w [...]le [...]/that I tolde you of / and the [...]gge wyth other folkys fawtys cast at our ba [...]ke / and cast the bagge y ^t bereth our owne fawtys caste yt onys by [...]e vs at our breste. It wolde be a goodly brooche for vs to loke on ou [...]e owne fawtys a nother whyle. And I dare boldely say / bothe they & we shold mych the better amend / yf we were so redy eche to pray for other / as we be redy to seke eche others reproche and re­buke. ¶In fayth quod he I trow that b [...] [...]ue and pray god we so may.

¶The .xiiii. chapyter.

¶The author answereth the dou [...]e moued before in the .xi. chapyter / cō ­cernynge the constytucyon prouyn­cyall / and that the clergye is therin [...] fro the f [...]t that is imputed to [...]eym [...]n that poynte / shewyng also [...]at the clergye hathe not forboden [...] byble to be made and redde in [...].

[...] [Page lxxxix] vertuouse and well lerned men translated in to thenglysh tonge / and by good and godly people wyth deuocyon and sobernes wel and reuerently red / toke vppon hym of a malycyouse purpose to translate yt of new. In whych translacyon he purposely corrupted that holy texte / malycyously plātyng therin such wordys / as myghte in the reders erys serue to the profe of suche heresyes as he went about to sowe / whyche he not onely set forth wyth hys owne translacyon of y ^e byble / but also wyth certayn prologes and glosys whyche he made thervppō. And these thyngys he so handeled (whych was no grete maystrye) wy [...]h reasons probable and lykely to lay people & vnlerned / y ^t he corrupted in hys tyme many folke in this reame. And by other yll bokys which he made in laten beynge after borne in to Boheme & there taughte by Iohn̄ Husse & other / he was thoccasyon of the vtter subuersyon of that hole reame bothe in fayth and good lyuyng / wyth the losse also of many a thousand lyuys. And as he began agayn y ^e old heresyes of those auncyent heretyques whom & whose errours the chyrch of Cryst had cōdempned and subdued many dyuers agys afore / so doth Luther agayne begynne to set vp hys. For all that he hath in effecte / he hathe of hym. Sauynge that leste he sholde seme to say nothynge of hys own / he added som thyngꝭ of hym selfe of suche maner sort / as there was neuer heretyque before hys dayes / neyther so wycked that he wold for synne / nor so folish y ^t he durst for shame write / say / or I trow thynk y ^e lyke. ¶I longe quod he to bere som of theym / for y ^• mā is takē for wyser thā to mean so madly as men bere hym in hand. ¶Wel quod I that shall we se sone whan we come therto. Bu for our present purpose / af­ter that yt was perceyued what harme y ^• people toke by the translacyon / pro­logys and glosys of Wyclyff [...]/and also of some other that after hym holpe to set forth hys secte / thā for y ^e cause / and for as myche as yt ys daungerouse to translate the texte of scrypture oute of one tonge in to a nother as holy saynt Hierom testyfyeth / for as myche as in trāslaciō it is hard alwai to kepe y ^e same sentence hole [...]yt was I saye for these causys at a counsayle holden at Oxen­ford / prouyded vppon grete payn that no mā shold frō thense forth translate in to th [...]nglysh tōge or eny other lan­gage of hys own authoryte [...]by waye of boke / lybell / or tretyce / nor no man openly or secretly eny such boke / lybel / or tretyce rede newly made in the tyme of the sayde Iohan wyclyffe or synnys / or y ^t sholde be made eny tyme after / tyll the same translacyō were by the dyocesane / or yf nede sholde so re­quyre by a prouyncyall counsayl approued. And thys ys the law y ^t so many so long haue spokē of / & so few haue in al y ^e whyle rought to seke whyther they say trouth or no. For I trow y ^t in thys law ye se no thīg vnreasonable. For yt neyther forbedeth y ^e trāslaciōs to be red y ^t were all redy well done of old byfore Wyclyffys dayes / nor dāpneth hys by­cause yt was new / but bycause yt was noughte / nor prohybyteth new to be made / but prouydeth y ^t they shall not be redde yf they be mysse made / tyll they be by good examinaciō amēded / excepte they be such trāslaciōs as wyclyf made & Tīdal / y ^t y ^e malicyoꝰ mynd of y ^e trāslator had in such wyse hādled it as it were labor lost to go about to mēd thē [Page] ¶I longe by my trouth quod he & euen syt on thornes / tyll I se that constytu­cyō. For not my self only but euery mā ellys hath euer takē yt far otherwyse / that euer I haue herd spokē therof tyll now. But surely I wyll se yt my selfe ere I slepe. ¶Ye shall be soner eased q I. For I can not suffer to se you syt so longe on thornes. And therfore ye shal se yt by and by.

¶And therwyth I fet hym forthe the constytucyons prouyncyall wyth lyn­wood thervppon / and tornyd hym to the place in y ^e tytle de magistris. which whan hym selfe had redde / he sayde he maruayled mich how it happened that in so playne a mater men be [...]o far ab­used / to reporte yt so farre wronge. ¶ Thys groweth quod I partely by malyce / partely by slouthe and negly­gence / in y ^e folke be more glad to by­leue and tell forth a thynge that maye sowne to the dysprayse of the clergye / thā to serche and be sure whyther they say trewe or no.

¶The .xv. chapyter.

¶The messenger moueth agaynst y ^e clergye / y ^t thoughe they haue made no law therof / yet they wyll in dede suffer non englysh byble in no mānꝭ hand / but vse to burne theym where they fynde theym / and somtyme to to burne the man to. And for ensam­ple he layeth one Rychard hūne / shewyng that the chaūceler of Londō murdered hym in pryson and after hanged hym / faynyng y ^t he hanged hym self / & after cōdempned hym of heresye / bycause he had an englyshe byble / & so burned y ^• byble & hym to­gether wherunto y ^e author āswereth I Suppose quod he that thys opy­nyon is rather growen another way / that ys to wytte by the reason y ^t the clergye though the law serue them not therfore / do yet in dede take all trā slacyons out of euery lay mannꝭ hand. And sometyme wyth those that be bur­ned or cōuycted of heresye / they burne y ^e englysh byble wythout respecte / be y ^e translacyon olde or new / bad or good. ¶Forsoth quod I yf thys were so / thā were yt in my mynde not well done. But I byleue ye mystake yt. Howe be yt what ye haue sene I can not saye. But my selfe haue sene and can shew you byblys fayre and olde wryten in englyshe / whyche haue ben knowen & sene by the byshop of the dyocyse / and lefte in laye mennys handys and wo­mens to suche as he knewe for good and catholyke folk / that vsed yt wyth deuocyon and sobernes. But of trouth all suche as are founden in the handys of heretyques / they vse to take awaye But they do cawse none to be burned as farre as euer I cowlde wytte / but onely such as be foundē fawtye. Wher of many be set forth wyth euyll prolo­gys or glosys malycyously made by wyclyf & other heretykes. For no good mā wold I wene be so mad to burne vp y ^e byble / wherī they foūd no faut / nor on law y ^t letted yt to be loked on & red. ¶Mary quod he but I haue herd good men say that euen here in London not many yerys agoo / in the dayes of the bysshop that last dyed / they burned vp as fayre bybles in englysh as eny man hathe lyghly sene / and therto as faut­lesse for awght that eny man cowlde fynde / as eny byble ys in laten. And yet bysydys thys they burned vppe the dede bodye of the man hym selfe / whome theym selfe hadde hanged in the byshoppys pryson before / makyng [Page xc] as though y ^e man had hāged hymselfe. And of the burnynge of hys body had they no colour / but onely bycause they founde englysshe bybles in hys howse. Wherin they neuer founde other faut / but bycause they were englyssh. ¶who tolde you thys tale quod I? ¶Forsothe dyuers honest mē quod he that saw yt / and specyall one that saw the man hangyng in y ^e bysshops pryson ere he was cutte downe. And he told me y ^t yt was well and clerely proued / y ^t the chaun­celer & hys kepers had kylled the man fyrst / and thā hanged hym after. And that they had layd heresye to hym only for hatred y ^t he sued a pmunyre agaīst dyuers persons / for a suyt taken about a mortuary in the audyence of the ar­chebysshop of cāterbury. And thā they proued the heresye by nothynge ellys / but by the possessyon of a good englysh byble. And vppon heresye so proued a­gaynst hym whome they had hanged / lest he sholde saye for hym selfe / they burned vppe the holy scrypture of god / and the body of a good man therwyth. For I haue herd hym called a very honest person and of a good substaunce. ¶Forsothe quod I of good substaunce he was I thynke well worthe a. M. markys. And of hys worldly conuersacyon among the peple I haue herd non harme. But surely as towchynge hys fayth towarde Cryste / me thynketh I may be bold to say that he was not ho­nest. And as touching trouth ī wordꝭ / he y ^t hath tolde you thys tale was not so honeste in dede as me thynketh ye take hym for. ¶Why q he do ye know y ^e mater well? ¶Forsoth q I so wel I know it frō top to too / y ^t I suppose ther be not very many mē y ^t know yt mych better. For I haue not only ben dyuers tymes present my selfe at certayn exa­mynacyons therof / but haue also dy­uers and many tymes sunderly talked wyth almost all such except the ded mā hym self / as moost knew of the mater. whych mater was many tymes in sundry placys examyned. But specyally at Baynardys castell one day was yt examyned at great length / and by a long tyme euery mā beyng sent for byfore / & redy there all y ^t could be founden y ^t eny thyng could tell or y ^t had sayd they could eny thyng tell in the mater. And thys examynacyō was had byfore dy­uers grete lordys spyrytual and tem­porall and other of the kyngys hono­rable counsayll / sente thyther by his hyghnesse for the nonys of hys blyssed zele and pryncely desyre borne to the serchynge of the trouthe. Whervnto hys gracyous mynde was myche enclyned / & had ben by a ryghte honorable mā enformed / that there was one had shewed a frend of hys y ^t he could go take hym by the sleue y ^t kylled Hūne / for Rychard hūne was hys name whome ye speke of. I was also my self psent at the iudgement gyuē in Powlys / wher vppon hys bokys & hys body were bur­ned. And by all these thyngys I very well knowe / that he of whom ye haue h [...]rd thys mater / hath tolde you talys far from y ^e trouth. ¶In good fayth q your frende / he tolde me one thynge y ^t ye speke of nowe / that there was one that sayde he cowlde go take hym by the sleue that kylled Hunne / and that he dyd so in dede byfore the lordys / and came euen there to the chaunce­ler and sayd my lordys thys ys he. But whā he was asked how he knew it / he cōfessed y ^t yt was by suche and vnlaw­full craft [...] was not takē for a profe. [Page] For it was thei say by necromācie And the bysshops y ^t were there wolde haue had y ^• man burned to for wychecrafte. And told me also y ^t there was a nother whyche had sene meny men y ^t had hanged thē self / a man that had bē long in offyce vnder dyuers of the kyngys al­moygners / to whom y ^e goodys of such men as kylled them self be appoynted by y ^e law / and hys offyce / as deodan­des to be gyuen in almoyse This man as I haue herd saye / shewed vnto the lordys by suche experyence as he had good and playne tokēs / by whych they perceyued well that Hunne dyd neuer hange hym selfe. I haue herd also that a spyrytuall man and one that loued well the chaunceler / and was a labo­rer for that parte / yet coulde not deny before all the lordys but that he hadde tolde a temporall man and a frende of hys / that Hunne had neuer ben accu­sed of heresye yf he had neuer sued the premunyre. And by saynt Mary that was a shrewd worde. How be yt in dede yt went not so nere the mater as the tother two thyngys dyd. ¶ Yes in good faythe quod I all thre lyke nere whan they were all herd. But of trouth many other thyngys were there layd / that vppon the herynge semed myche more suspycyouse than these. Whyche yet whan they were answered / alway loste more than halfe theyr strength. But as for these thre maters I pro­myse you proued very tryfles / and such as yf ye had herd theym ye wolde haue lawghed at theym seuen yere after. ¶ I beseche you quod he lette me here howe they proued. ¶ I am lothe quod I to lette you and lese youre tyme in suche tryfles. How be yt sythe ye longe so sore therfore / rather than ye sh [...]lde lese youre chylde for theym / ye shall haue theym all thre as shortely as I can. Fyrste ye muste vnderstande that bycawse the comynge together of the lordys from Grenewych to Baynardꝭ castell for the tryenge oute of the ma­ter sholde not be frustrate / there was suche dylygence done before / that eue­ry man that aughte hadde sayde ther­in / was redy there agaynste theyre cō ­mynge. where they began wyth the fyrste poynte that ye spake of / as the specyall mocyon whervppon the kyn­gys hyghnesse had sent theym thyther. Wherfore after the rehersall made of the cause of theyr comyng / the grettest temporal lord there present sayd vnto a certayn seruaūt of hys own stādyng there bysyde / syr ye told me y ^e one she­wed you that he could go take hym by y ^e sleue y ^t kylled Hūne [...] haue ye brought hym hyther? Syr q he yf yt lyke your lordshyp this man yt was y ^• told me so / poyntyng to one that he had caused to come thither. Than my lord asked that man howe saye ye syr can ye do as ye sayd ye coulde? Forsothe my lorde quod he and yt lyke youre lordsshyp I sayd not so myche / thys gentylman dyd somwhat mys [...]e take me. But in dede I tolde hym that I had a neyghbour that tolde me that he cowlde do yt. Where ys that neyghboure quod my lorde? Thys man syr quod he / bryn­gynge forthe one whyche had also be warned to be there. Than was he as­ked whyther he had sayd that he could do yt. Nay forsothe quod he my lorde I sayde not that I cowlde do yt my self / but I sayde y ^• one told me that he could do yt. Well q my lord who tolde you so? Forsothe my lorde quod he my neyghbour here. Thā was y ^e mā askyd. [Page xci] Syr knowe you one that can tell who kylled Hunne? Forsoth quod he and yt lyke your lordshyppe I sayd not that I knew one surely y ^t could tell who h [...]d kylled hym / but I sayd in dede th [...]t I knowe one whyche I thought veryly coulde tell who kylled hym. Well quod the lordꝭ at last yet wyth mych worke we come to sōwhat. but wherby thyn [...] you y ^t he can tel? Nay forsoth my lorde q he yt is a womā / I wolde she were here w ^t your lordshyppis now. Well q my lord woman or man all is one / she shall be hadde where so euer she be. By my fayth my lordꝭ q he & she were w ^t you she wold tell you wōders. For by god I haue wyst her tell many maruylouse thyngꝭ ere now. Why q y ^e lor­dis what haue you herd her tolde? For so [...]h my lordꝭ quod he yf a thynge h [...]d bene stolen / she wold haue tolde who h [...]d yt / and therfore I thīke she could as well tell who kyld Hunne as who stale an horse. Surely sayd the lordys so thynke all we to I trow. But how could she tell yt by the deuyll? Nay by my trouth I trow quod he / for I could neuer se her vse eny worse waye than lokyng in onys hande. Therwyth the lordys laughed and asked what is she. Forsoth my lord quod he an egyp [...]yan / and she was lodged euen here at Lambeth / but she ys gone ouer see nowe. How be it I trow she be not ī her own countre / yet for they saye yt ys a grete waye hense / and she wente ouer lytell more than a moneth ago. ¶Now for­soth q your frende thys processe came to a wyse purpose / here was a gret post well thywted to a puddyng pryk. But I pray you to what poynt came the se­cond mater of hym th [...]t had ben in of­fyce vnder so many of the kyngys al­moygners / that he knew by hys owne experyēce & ꝓued y ^• Hūne h [...]d not han­ged hym selfe? ¶Forsoth q I he was called in nexte. And than was he asked wherby he knewe yt. But wold god ye had sene his contenaūce. The mā had of lykelyhed sayd sūwhat to far & was myche amased / & loked as though hys eyen wolde haue fallen oute of hys hed in to the lordys lappys. But to y ^e que­styō he answered and sayd / y ^t he saw y ^• very well / for he sawe hym both ere he was takē down & after. What than q y ^e lordys so dyd there many mo / whych yet vppon the syght could not tel that. No my lordys quod he but I haue a nother in syght insuche thyngꝭ thā other men haue. What in syghte quod they? Forsoth q he yt ys not vnknowen y ^t I haue occupyed a grete whyle vnder dy­uers of y ^e kyngys almoygnyers / & haue sene & consydered many that haue hanged thē self / & therby yf I se one hange I can tell anon whyther he hanged hym self or not. By what tokē can you tell quod the lordys? Forsothe quod he I can not tell y ^e tokēs / but I perceyue yt well ynoughe by myn owne syghte. But whan they herd hym speke of hys owne syghte / and therwyth saw what syght he had / lokynge as thoughe hys eyen wold haue fallen in theyr lappꝭ / there coulde fewe forbere laughynge / and sayd we se wel surely that ye haue a syghte by your selfe. And than sayde one lorde meryly / peraduenture as [...]om mā is s [...] cūnyng by experyēce of iewels that he can perceyue by hys owne eye why [...]er a stone be ryghte or counter­f [...]te though [...] he can not well make a nother man to perceyue the tokens / so thys good felowe thowghe he can not tell vs the markys / yet hath suche an [Page] experyence in hangyng / that hymselfe perceyueth vppon the syght / whyther the man hanged hym selfe or no. Ye forsothe my lorde quod he euer as your lordysshyp sayth. For I knowe yt wel ynough my selfe / I haue sene so many by reason of myn offyce. Why quod a nother lorde meryly your offyce hathe no more experyence in hangyng than hath an hange mā. And yet he can not tell. Naye syr q he and yt lyke your lordshyp he medleth not wyth theym that hange theym selfe as I do. Well q one of the lordys how many of them haue ye medled wyth in youre dayes? Wyth many my lorde quod he / for I haue ben offycer vnder two almoyg­ners and therfore I haue sene many. Howe many quod one of the lordys? I can not tell quod he howe many / but I wote well I haue seene many. Haue ye sene quod one an hundred? Naye quod he not an hundred. Haue ye sene foure score and ten? therat a ly­tell he studyed as one standynge in a doute and that were loth to lye and at laste he sayd / that he thoughte nay not fully foure score & ten. Than was he asked whither he hath sene twenty. And therto wythout eny styckynge he an­swered nay not twenty. Therat y ^e lor­dys lawhged well to se that he was so sure that he had not sene twentye / and was in dout whyther he had sene four score and ten. Than was he asked why ther he had sene .xv. And therto he sayd shortely nay / And in lykewyse of ten. And laste they came to fyue / & fro fyue to foure. And there he bygan to studye agayn. Thā cam they to thre / & thā for shame he was fayn to say y ^t he had sene so many & mo to. But whā he was as­ked / whā / whom / & in what place / necestyte draue him at last vnto y ^• trouth / wherby yt appered that he neuer had sene but one in all hys lyfe. And that was an yrysh felow called croke shank whome he hadde sene hangynge in an olde bar [...]e. And whā all hys connyng was come to thys / he was bad walke lyke hym self. And one sayd vnto hym that bycawse he was not yet cōnynge ynoughe in the crafte of hangynge / y [...] was pytye that he hadde no more expe­ryence therof by one mo. ¶ Forsothe q youre frende thys was a mad felowe. Came y ^e thyrd tale to as wyse a poynt? ¶Ye shall here quod I. The temporal man that had reported yt vpō y ^e mouth of the spyrytual mā / was a good wor­shypfull man / and for hys trouthe and worshyp was in grete credyte. And su­rely the spyrytuall man was a man of worshyp also / & wel knowē both for cō nyng & vertuouse. And therfore y ^e lordꝭ myche meruayled knowīg thē both for suche as they were / that they shold be lyke to fynde / eyther the tone or the tother eyther make an vntrewe reporte or vntrewly denye y ^e trouth. And fyrst the temporall mā before the lordys in the heryng of the spyrytuall person stā dyng by / sayd / my lordys as helpe me god and halydom mayster doctour here sayd vnto me hys owne mouth / that yf Hūne had not sued the premunyre he shold neuer haue bē accused of heresye. How say you master doctour quod the lordys was y ^e trewe or ellys why sayd ye so? Surely my lordys quod he I sayd not all thyng so / but ma [...]y thys I sayd in dede / that yf Hūne had not bē accused of heresye / he wold neuer haue sued the premunyre. Lo my lordys q the tother I am gladde ye fynde me a true man. Wyll ye commaunde me eny [Page xcii] more seruyce? Nay by my trouth q one of y ^e lordꝭ not in this mater / by my wyl ye maye go whan ye wyll. For I haue espyed good mā so y ^t wordꝭ be [...]l one yt maketh no mater to you whyche waye they stand / but all is one to you a horse myl & a myll horse / dīke ere ye go & go e [...]e ye drynke. Naye my lordys quod h [...] I wyll not drynke dod yelde you. And therwyth he made curteyse & wēt hys waye / leuynge some of the lordys lawghynge to se the good playne olde honest man / how that as contrary as theyr two talys were / yet whā he herd thē both agayne / he marked no dyffe­rence bytwene theym / but toke theym bothe for one / bycause y ^e wordys were one. By my trouthe q your frend these thre thyngys came meryly to passe / and I wold not for a good thynge but I had herd theym. For here may a man se that mysse vnderstandynge maketh mysse reportyng. And a tale that [...]eeth thorowe many mouthes / catcheth ma­ny new fethers / whyche whan they be pulled away agayne / leue hym as pyl­led as a coote and somtyme as bare as a byrdys ars. But I thyn [...]e veryly for all thys there was grete euydence gy­uen agaynst the chaūceler / for he was at length endyghted of Hunnys deth / and was a grete whyle in pryson / and in cōclusyō neuer durst abyde the tryal of twelue men for hys acquytayle / but was fayn by frendshyp to gete a ꝑdō. But I beseche you for my myndys sa­ke / shewe me what thought your selfe therin. ¶Of trouth quod I there were dyuerse suspycyouse thyngys layd aga­ynst hym / and al those well and substā cyally answered agayn for hym. How be yt vppon the tellynge of a tale oftē tyme happeth / that wh [...] all [...] that can be sayde therin / yet shall th [...] [...] some thynke one way and some a nother. And therfore though I can not thynke but that the Iury whyche were ryght honest men / found the verd [...]cte as theym selfe thought in theyre owne conscyence to be trouthe / yet in myn owne mynde for oughte that eue [...] I herd therof in my lyfe as helpe god I could neuer thīk yt. ¶Yf he had not ben gyltye quod your frende / he wolde neuer haue sued hys ꝑdon. ¶Yes quod I ryght wyse men haue I herd say ere thys / that they wyll neuer refuse ney­ther goddys pardon nor the kyngys. It were no wysdom in a mater of ma­ny suspycyouse talys be they neuer so false / to stāde on twelue mennys mouthes where one may fynd a surer way. But I thynke veryly that yf he had bē gyltye / he sholde neuer haue goten hys pardon. For al be yt that th [...]re was ne­uer I trowe brought in thys worlde a prynce of more benygne nature / nor of more mercyfull mynde / than ys our so­uerayne lorde that now reygneth and longe mo [...]e reygne vppon vs / wherby neuer kynge coulde fynde in hys hart [...] more frely to forgyue and forgete offē cys done and cōmytted vnto hym self / yet hath hys hyghnesse suche a feruent affe [...]ciō to right & iustyce in other mēnꝭ causys / & such a tēder zele to the conseruaciō of hys subgectꝭ / of whose lyuys hys hygh wysedom consydereth many to stand in parell by the geuyng of per­don to a few wylfull murderers / that neuer was there kyng / I byleue y ^t euer ware the crown in thys realme whych hath in so many yerys geuē vnto such fol [...]e so fewe. And therfore I make my selfe sure that in such a wylfull purpē ­sed [...] cruell dede as thys had [Page] bene yf hyt had bene trew / all the frendys that could haue bene founden for the chauncellour in thys world / could neuer haue goten hys pardon to passe in such wyse / had yt not be that vppon the reporte of all the cyrcumstancys / the kyng [...] hygh prudence whych wyth out flatery perceth as depe in to the bo­ [...]ome of a dowtefull mater as euer I saw man in my lyfe / had well percey­ued hys innocēcye And sythe I [...]e [...]yly byleue that yf he had bene gyltye he neuer coud haue gotten in such an he [...]hnous murder eny pardon of the hy [...] ­ [...]ys hyghnes / I dare make my selfe mych more bold of his innocency now. For ye shall v [...]derstād that he ne­uer sued pardon therfore. B [...]t after longe examyna­cyon of the mater / as well the chauncellour as othe [...]/beynge endyghted of the dede & arrayned v [...]pon the entyghtement in the hy [...] ­gis bench / pled [...]d that they were not [...]yltie. And ther­vppon the kyn [...]ys grace beynge well & suffycyently enformyd of the trouthe / & of hys blyssed dysposycyon not wyllīg that there shold in hys name eny false ma­ter be maynt [...]ynyd / g [...]ue in cōmaūdemēt to hys a [...] ­n [...]y to confesse theyr plees to be trewe wythout [...]ny farther troble. which thing in so faythfull a prynce i [...] a clere declaracyon that the meter layd to the chauncel­lour was [...]urte [...]. And as for my selfe in good fayth as I told you byfore. I neuer hard in my lyfe (and yet haue I herd all I wen [...] y ^t well could be sayed) therin eny thing y ^• moued me after both the partyes herde / to thynke that he shold be gyltye. ¶And bysydys al thys consyde [...]ing that Hunne was (as they that well knowe hym saye he was in dede) though he were a fayre dealer a­mong hys neygbours [...] yet a man hygh mynded and set on the glory of a vyc­tory / whyche he hoped to haue in the premunyre / wherof he mych hosted as they sayed among hys famylyare fren­dys / that he trusted to be spokē of long after his dayes / and haue hys mater in the y [...]rys and termys called Hunnys case. whych whan he perceyued wolde go agaynst his purpose / and that in the temporall law he shold not wynne his spurrys / and ouer that in y ^• spyrytuall law perceyued so myche of hys secrete sorys vnwrapped & dyscouered that he begā to fall in fere of worldly shame / yt ys to me mych more lykely that for werynes of hys lyfe he rydde hym selfe out therof (whych maner of affectyon we se not seldom happē / specyally syth the deuyll myght peraduenture ioyne therw ^t a malycyouse hope of y ^t whyche after happed that the suspycyon of hys deth myth be layed to the charge and parell of the chauncellour) thys ys I say myche more lykely to me / than the thynge wherof I neuer herd the lyke byfore / that the bysshoppys chaunceler shold kyll in the lollardys towre a mā so sore suspect and cōvycte of heresye / wherby he myght brynge hym selfe in besynes / where as yf he hated the man (For kyll hym he wolde not ye wote well yf he loued hym) he myght easely brynge hym to shame and peraduēture to shamefull deth also.

¶In good fayth q your frend wyste I that yt were trew that he was an heretyque in dede / and in parell to be so proued / I wold well thynke that in malyce and dyspayre he hanged hym selfe. ¶God quod I knoweth of all thynge the trouth. But what I haue herd therin that shall I shew you.

¶My selfe was presēt in poulys whā the bysshype in y ^e presence of y ^e Mayre and the aldremen of the cytye cōdempned hym for an heretyque after hys dethe. And then were there redde o [...]ē ­ly y ^e deposyons / by whych yt was well proued that he was conuyc [...]e as well of dyuerse other heresyes as of mysby­leue toward the holy sacrement of the [...]wter. And thervppon was the iudge­ment geuen / that hys body sholde be burned / and so was yt. ¶Now this is quod I to me a full profe. For I assure you the bysshop was a very wyse man a vertuouse and a cūnyng. ¶By saynt mary quod he the profe is the better by so mych. ¶I shall tell you quod I a no­ther thyng [...]/wh [...]che whan ye here ye shall peraduenture byleue yt yet the better. ¶That wolde I gladly know quod he. For as farer as I can here ne­uer man had hym sus [...]ec [...]e of eny suche th [...]e byfore. ¶Forsoth quod I that [Page xciii] can I not tel. But so yt happ [...]d that as I remember syx or seuē yere after that Hūne was thus hanged and hys body burned for an heretyke / there was one in Essex a carpenter that vsed to make pumpes / whyche had entended wyth other suche as he was hym selfe to do grete robbery / and thervppon was he brought vnto the courte. Where by the cōmaundement of the kyngys grace / a grete honourable estate of thys real­me and my selfe had hym in examyna­cyon. Wherin among other thyngys he confessed that he had longe holden dy­uers heresyes / whych he sayd that hys brother beyng [...] clerke of a chyrche had taught bothe hys father and hym. And I promyse you those heresyes were of an heygth. Than he shewed vs what other connynge maysters of that scole he had herd rede / & specyally in a place whych he named vs in Londō / where he sayd y ^t suche heretyques were wont [...]o resorte to theyr redyngys in a cham­ber at mydnyght. And wh [...]n we asked hym y ^e namys of them that were wont to haunte those mydnyghte lecturis / he rehersed vs dyuers / & amonge other he named Rychard hunne. Wherof we somwhat meruayled in oure myndys / but nothynge sayde we therto / but let hym reherse on all such as he could call to mynde. And wh [...]n he stopped and could remember no [...]/than asked we of thē that he had named / what they were and where they dwelled. And he tolde vs of some of them that were cō ­uycted / & some y ^t were [...]edde / and some that were yet at that tyme dwellynge [...]yll in the town. And in the way whā we asked hym what man was y ^t Hūne that he spake of / he tolde vs hys person and hys howse. And where is he now sayd we? Mary q he I went to Tour­ney / and whan I cam thense agayne / than herd I say that he was hanged in the lollardys towre and hys body bur­ned for an heretyque. And thus there lerned we longe after / that Hūne had haunted heretyques lectures by nyght long before / whych we declared vnto the kyngys hyghnesse as he had con­fessed. And hys hyghnesse though he was sory y ^t eny man shold be so lewd / yet hyghly dyd reioyce that y ^e goodnes of god broughte suche hyd myschyefe more and more to lyght. So after had we by the kyngys cōmaundement that mānys brother in examynacyō / which dyd in dede confesse nothyng / neyther of y ^e felonyes nor of the heresyes. But yet his brother dyd abyde by them and anowed theym in hys face / wyth suche markys and tokens as yt myghte well appere that he sayd treuth. And surely meruayle were it yf he wold fasly haue fayned such heyghnouse thyngꝭ agaīst hys owne brother / hys owne father & hym selfe / beynge therto nothynge cō pelled / nor put eyther in payne or fere. Now was the father dede / and other could we not come by / whō we myght ferther examyne of that nyght scole / sauynge that he whych as I told you cō fessed thys mater / shewed vs also at y ^e fyrst tyme of one man in London ta­ken for good and honest / whyche was as he sayd a scoler also of hys brother in those heresyes / whych man for hys honestie we forbare to medle with / tyl we shold haue the tother brother. whō as sone we had in handys / and that he was cōmytted to the marshalsye / thys other man whych was as I tolde you de [...]cted vnto vs for an heretyque and a scoler of hys / came to me to labour & [Page] sue for hym / pretendynge that he dyd yt for cheryte. And for as mych as we thought we could not fayle of him whā we wold haue hym / we forbare ther­fore to examyne hym / tyll we sholde haue examyned the tother whom he labored for But than were we not ware in what wyse we shold be dysapoynted of hym. For so myshapped yt in dede / y ^t after hys beyng at me to labor for him whose scoler ī heresie he was detecte to be / he was in hys own howse sodayn­ly stryken & slayne. And that wreched ende had he. What consyence he dyed wyth god knoweth / for I can tell you no ferther. ¶By saynt Iohn̄ quod your frend but vppon y ^e hole tale / yt semeth to me very clere that Hunne was hym selfe not clere of the mater. ¶Surely quod I so semed yt as far as I cowlde wytte / vnto as many as euer herd yt / and wolde yet I wene haue semed so more clerely / yf they had bē present at thexamynacyōs / and sene vnder what maner the man came forthe therwith. ¶But yet quod your frende as for his englysh byble / thoughe Hunne were hym selfe an heretyque / yet myght the boke be good ynough. And no good reason ys there why a good boke shold be burned wyth an euyll man. ¶Ye call me well home quod I / & put me well in mynd. For y ^t was the thyng wherby ye toke occasyon to talke of Hunne / of whom we talked so longe / that at last I had forgoten wherfore & whervppō we entred in to that communycacyon. And yet make those bokys not a lytell to the mater that we had in hande / I meane toward the perceyuynge what opynyon that Hunne was of. For surely at suche tyme as he was denounced for an heretyque / there lay his englysh byble open / and som other englyshe bokys of hys / that euery man myghte sethe placys noted with his own hande / suche wordys / and in suche wyse / that there wold no wyse man y ^t good were / haue eny grete dowte after the syghte therof / what naughty myndys the mē had / both he that so noted theym / and he that so made them. I remember not now the specyaltees of the mater / nor the formall wordys as they were wryten. But thys I remember well that besydys other thyngys framed for the fauour of dyuers other heresyes / there were in the prologe of that byble such [...] wordys touchynge y ^e blyssed sacramēt / as good crysten mē dyd myche abhorre to here / and whych gaue the reders vndouted occasyō to thynke that the boke was wryten after [...]yclyffs copy / and by hym translated in to our tonge. And yet whyther the boke be burned or se­cretely kept I can not surely saye. But truly were the clergye of my mynd / yt sholde be some where reserued / for the perpetual profe of the mater / ther hath gone so mych suspycyoꝰ rumor therof [...] Whych as I byleue were all well an­swered & the mynde fully satysfyed o [...] eny mā that wyse were & good therw ^t / that onys had ouerloked / red / and ad­uysedly consydered that boke.

¶The .xvi. chapyter.

¶The messenger reherseth som cau­sys whych he hath herd layd by som of the clergye / wherfore y ^e scryptur [...] shold not be suffred in englysh. And the author sheweth hys mynde that yt were conuenyēt to haue the byble in englyshe. And therwyth endeth the thyrd boke.

SYr quod your frende yet for all thys can I se no cawse why the [Page xciiii] clergye shold kepe the byble out of lay mennys handys / that can no more but theyr mother tonge. ¶I had wente q I that I had proued you playnly / that they kepe yt not from thē. For I haue shewed you that they kepe none frome theym / but suche translacyon as be ey­ther not yet approued for good / or such as be all redy reproued for naught / as Wyclyffys was and Tyndals. For as for other olde onys / that were before Wyclyffys days / remayn lawful / and be in some folkys handys had and red. ¶Ye say well quod he. But yet as wo­men say / somwhat yt was alway that y ^e cat wynked whan her eye was oute. Surely so ys yt not for nought that y ^e englysh byble is in so few mennys handys / whan so many wold so fayn haue yt. ¶That ys very trouth q I. For I thynke that though the fauourers of a secte of heretyques be so feruent in the settynge for the of theyr sect / that they let not to lay theyr money togyder and make a purse amonge thē for the pryn­tyng of an euyll made or euyll translated boke / whych though yt happe to be forboden and burned yet som be solde ere they be spyed / & eche of theym lese but theyr parte / yet I thynk ther wyll no prynter lyghtely be so hote to put eny byble in prent at hys own charge / wherof the losse sholde lye hole in hys owne necke / and than hange vppon a doutfull tryall whyther the fyrst copy of hys translacyon was made before Wyclyffys dayes or synnys. For yf yt were made synnys / yt must be appro­ued byfore the pryntynge. And surely howe yt hathe happed that in all thys whyle god hathe eyther not suffred or not prouyded that eny good vertuouse man hath had the mynde in faythfull wyse to translate yt / and thervppō ey­ther the clergye or at the lest wyse somone bysshop to approue yt / thys can no thynge tell. But howe so euer yt be / I haue herd and here so myche spoken in the mater / and so mych dout made ther in / that peraduenture yt wold let and wythdrawe eny one bysshop from the admyttyng therof / wythout the assent of the remanaunt. And where as ma­ny thyngys be layd agaynst yt / yet ys there in my mynde not one thyng that more putteth good men of the clergye in dout to suffer yt / than thys y ^t they se somtyme myche of the worse sort more feruent in the callyng for yt / than thē whom we fynde far better. Whych maketh theym to fere lest such men desyre yt for no good / and lest yf yt were had in euery mānys hand / there wold gret parell aryse / and that sedycyouse peo­ple shold do more harme therwyth / thā god and honest folke sholde take frute therby. Whyche fere I promyse you no thyng fereth me / but that who so euer wolde of theyre malyce or foly take harme of that thynge that ys of yt self ordeyned to do all men good / I wold neuer for thauoydyng of theyr harme / take frome other the profyte whyche they myght take / and no thyng deserue to lese. For ellys yf thabuse of a good thyng shold cause the takynge awaye therof frome other that wolde vse yt well / Cryst shold hym selfe neuer haue ben borne / nor brought hys fayth in to the worlde / nor god sholde neuer haue made yt neyther / yf he shold for y ^e losse of those that wold be dāpned wreches / haue kepte away thoccasyon of reward from theym that wold wyth helpe of hys grace endeuoure theym to deserue yt. ¶I am sure q your frende ye dowt [Page] not but that I am full & hole of youre mynd in thys mater that y ^e byble shold be in our englysh tonge. But yet that y ^e clergye ys of the cōtrary and wold not haue yt so / that appereth well in that they suffre it not to be so. And ouer that I here in euery place almoost where I fynde eny lerned man of theym / theyr myndꝭ all set theron to kepe y ^e scryptur from vs. And they seke oute for y ^e parte euery roten reason that they can fynd / and set them forth solemply to y ^e shew / thoughe fyue of those reasons be not worth a fygge. For they begyn as far as our fyrst father Adam / and shew vs that hys wyfe and he fell out of para­dyse wyth desyre of knowlege and cunning. Now yf this wold serue / it must from y ^e knowlege & studye of scrypture dryue euery man preste and other / leste yt dryue all cut of paradyse. Than say they that god taught hys dyscyples many thyngys aparte / bycawse the peple sholde not here yt. And therfore they wold the people shold not now be suf­fred to rede all. Yet they saye ferther y ^• yt is hard to translate the scrypture out of one tonge in to a nother / & specyally they say in to ours. whyche they call a tonge vulgare & barbarous. But of all thyng specyally they say that scrypture ys the fode of the soule. And that the comen peple be as infantys that must be fedde but wyth mylke and pappe. And yf we haue eny stronger mete yt muste be chammed afore by the nurse and so put in to y ^e babys mouth. But me thynk though the make vs all infantys / they shal fynd many a shrewd brayn amōg vs / y ^• can perceyue chalk fro chese wel ynough and yf they wold onys take vs our mete in our owne hāde. We be not so euyll tothed but y ^• wythin a whyle they shall se vs chamme yt our selfe as well as they. For let them cal vs yong babys & they wul / yet by god they shal for all that well fynde in some of vs y ^• an olde knaue ys no chylde. ¶Sure­ly quod I such thyngys as ye speke / ys the thyng that as I somwhat sayd be­fore putteth good folke in fere to suffer the scrypture in our englysh tōge. Not for the redynge & receyuyng / but for y ^• bysy chammyng therof / and for myche medlyng wyth suche partys therof as lest wyll agre wyth theyr capacytees. For vndoutedly as ye spake of our mo­ther Eue / īordynate appetyte of knowledge in a meane to dryue eny man out of a paradyse. And inordynate ys the apperyte whan men vnlerned though they rede yt in theyr langage / wyll be bysye to enserche and dyspute the grete secrete mysteryes of scrypture / whyche though they here they be not able to ꝑ­ceyue. Thys thynge ys playnly forbo­den vs that be not appoynted nor in­structed therto. And therfore holy saīt Gregory naziazenus that grete solempne doctour sore toucheth and reproueth all suche bolde besy medlers in the scrypture / & sheweth that yt is in Exody by Moyses a scendynge vp vppon the hyll where he spake wyth god and y ^e peple taryeng benethe / y ^e y ^e peple be forbodē to presume to medle w ^t the hygh mysteryes of holy scrypture / but owe to be content to tary bynethe & medle none hygher than ys mete for theym / but receyuynge fro the heyght of the hyll by Moyses that y ^• ys delyuered theym / y ^t ys to wyte the lawys and preceptys y ^t they muste kepe / and the poyntys they must byleue / loke well theruppon / and often / and medle well therwyth. Not to dyspute yt but to fulfyll yt. And as [Page xcv] for the hygh secrete mysteryes of god / & hard textys of hys holy scrypture / let vs know that we be so vnable to asc̄ed vp so hyghe on that hyll / that yt shall bycū vs to say to the preche ours apoynted therto as the peple sayd vnto Moyses / her [...] you god and let vs here you. And surely y ^• bles [...]d holy doctour saīt Hierome gretely complayneth and re­buketh that lewd homely maner / that the comen lay people men and w [...]n were in hys dayes so bolde in the med­lynge / dysputyng / and expownyng of holy scrypture. And sheweth playnely that they shal haue euyll prefe therin / that wyll rekē thēself to vnderstand yt by thē self wythout a reder. For yt is a thyng y ^• requyreth good help / & longe tyme / and an hole mynde gyuen gre­tely therto. And surely syth as the holy appostles saynt Powle in dyuers of his epystle saythe / god hathe by hys holy spyryte so instytute and ordeyned hys chyrche / that he wyll haue some reders and some herers / some techers and som lerners / we do playnely peruerte and turne vp so downe the ryghte order of Crystys chyrche / whan the tone parte medleth wyth the tothers offyce. Pla­to the grete phylosopher specyally for bedeth suche as be not admytted ther­vnto nor men mete therfore / to medle myche and embesy [...] theym selfe in rea­sonyng and dysputyng vppon the tem­porall lawys of the cytie / whych wold not be reasoned vppō but by folke mete therfore and in place conuenyent. For ellys they that can not very well attayne to perceyue theym / begynne to mysse lyke / dysprayse / and contem­pne theym. Wherof foloweth the bre­che of the lawys and dysordre of the people. For tyll a law [...] be chaunged by authoryte / yt rather ought to be obser­ued than contempned. Or ellys the example of [...] law boldly broken and set at nought / waxeth a precedent for the remanaunt t [...] be vsed lyke. And comenly the best lawes shall worst lyk [...] myche of the comen people / whyche moste longe (yf they myghte be herd and folowed) to lyue all at lyberty [...] vnder none at all. Nowe yf Plato so wyse a man so thoughte good in temporall lawys thyngys of mennys ma­kynge / howe myche is yt lesse mete for euery man boldely to medle wyth the exposycyon of holy scrypture / so de­uysed and endyted by y ^• hygh wysdome of god / y ^• yt far excedeth in many placꝭ the capacyte and perceyuyng of mā. It was also prouyded by the emperoure in the lawe cyuyle / that the comen peple shold neuer be so bold to [...]epe dispyciōs vppon the fayth or holy scrypture / nor that eny such thing shold be vsed amōg thē or byfore theym. And therfore as I said before / y ^• specyall fere in thys ma­ter ys / leste we wolde be to besye in chammynge of the [...]crypture our selfe / whyche ye saye we were able ynoughe to do. whyche vndowtely the wyseste and the best lerned / and he that th [...]rin hath by many yerys bestowed his hole mynde / ys yet vnable to do. And than farre more vnable muste [...]e nedꝭ be / y ^• boldely wyll vppon the fyr [...] redynge bycawse he knoweth the wordys / take vppon hym therfore to teche other mē the sentence wyth parell of hys owne sowle and other mennys to / by the bryngynge men in to madde wayes / sectys / and heresyes / suche as here­tyques haue of olde broughte vppe & the chyrche hathe condempned. And thus in these maters yf y ^• comen peple [Page] myght be bold chāme yt as ye say & to dyspute yt / thā shold ye haue y ^• more blynde the more bolde / the more igno­raunt the more bysy / the lesse wyt the more inquysytyfe / the more fole the more talkatyf of grete doutys & hygh questyons of holy scrypture & of goddꝭ grete and secrete mysteryes / and thys not sobrely of eny good affeccyon / but presumptuousely and vnreuerently at mete & at mele. And ther whā y ^• wyne were in & the wyt out / wolde they take vppō thē w ^t folysh wordꝭ & bl [...]sphemie [...]o hādle holy scrypture in more homely maner thā a song of Robyn hode. And som wold as I sayd solemply take vpō thē lyke as they were ordynary reders to interprete y ^• text at theyr pleasure / & therw ^t fall thē self & draw down other w ^t thē in to sedycyouse sectꝭ & heresyes / wherby the scrypture of god shold lese hys honour & reuerence / and be by such vnreuerent and vnsytting demeanure amōg mych peple quyte & clene abused / vnto y ^e contrary of that holy purpose y ^t god ordayned yt for. Where as yf we wolde no ferther medle therwyth but well and deuoutly rede yt / and in that that ys playne and euydent as goddys cōmaundementys and hys holy coun­sayls ende [...]our our self to folow wyth helpe of hys grace asked therunto / and in hys great and meruelouse myracles consyder hys god hed / and in his lowly byrth / hys godly lyfe / and hys bytter passyon / exercyse our self in suche medytacyons / prayour / and vertues / as the mater shal mynyster vs occasyō / knowledgynge our owne ignoraunce where we fynd a dowte / and therin lenynge to the fayth of the chyrche / wrestle w ^t no such texte as myght brynge vs in a d [...] and werestye of eny of those arty­cles wherin euery good crysten man is clere / by thys maner of redyng can no man nor womā take hurt in holy scry­pture. Now than the thyngys on the t [...]ther syde y ^• vnlerned peple can neuer by theym selfe attayne / as in the psal­mys and the prophetys & dyuerse par­tys of the gospell / where the wordys be somtyme sp [...]ken as in the p [...]rson of the prophete hym selfe / somtyme as in the persō of god / somtyme of som other as aungels deuyls or men / & somtyme of our sauyour Cryst / not alway of one fassyon / but somtyme as god / somtyme as mā / somtyme as hed of thys mysty­call body hys chyrch mylytant here in erthe / sometyme as hed of hys chyrche tryumphaunt in heuen / somtyme as in the person of hys sensuall partyes of hys owne body / [...]therwhyle in the persone of some partycular [...] parte of hys body mystycal / and these thyngys wyth many other oftentymes inter­chaunged / and sodaynly sondry thyn­gys of dyuers maters dyuersly mēgled together / all these thyngys whyche ys not possyble for vnlerned men to at­tayne vnt [...]/yt were more than mad­nesse for theym to medle wyth all / but leue all these thyngys to theym whose hole study ys byset thervppon / and to the precheours appoynted therunto / whyche may shewe theym such thyngꝭ in tyme and place conuenyent wyth reuerence and authorite / the sermon so tempered / as may be mete and conue­nyēt alway for y ^• psent audiēce. Wher­unto it appereth y ^• our sauyour hym self & his apostles after hym / had euer a specyal respect. And therfore as I say for­soth I cā ī no wyse agre w ^t you y ^• it were mete for mē vnlerned to be besy w ^t y ^e chāmīg of holy scryptur / but to haue [Page xcvi] yt chāmed vnto theym. For that ys y ^• precheours parte & theyrs / that after longe studye are admytted to rede and expowne it. And to this entēt way all the wordys as far as I perceyue of all holy doctours y ^• eny thynge haue wry­ten in thys mater. But neuer mēt they as I suppose the forbedynge of y ^• byble to be red in eny vulgare tonge. Nor I neuer yet herdeny reason layd / why yt were not cōuenyēt to haue y ^• byble trā ­slated in to thenglysh tōg / but all those reasons semed they neuer so gay & glo­ryouse at y ^• fyrst syghte / yet when they were wel examyned they myght in ef­fect for aught that I can se / as well be layd agaynst y ^• holy wryters y ^• wrote y ^• scrypture in the ebrue tong / & agaynst y ^e blyssed euāgelystꝭ y ^t wrote the scryp­ture in greke / & agaynst al those in lyke wyse that translated yt out of euery of those tougysin to laten / as to theyre charge that wold well and faythfully translate yt owt of laten in to our en­glysh tong. For as for that our tong is called barbarouse / ys but a fantesye. For so is as euery lerned mā knoweth / euery straunge langage to other. And yf they wold call yt barayn of wordꝭ / there ys no doute but yt ys plentuouse ynoughe to expresse our myndys in eny thīg wherof one mā hath vsed to sp [...]ke w ^t a nother. Now as touchyng y ^• dysty [...]ltie which a trāslatour fyndeth in expressyng well & lyuely y ^e sentēce of hys author / whych ys hard alway to do so surely but y ^t he shall sūtyme mynysh [...]yther of y ^e sētēce or of y ^e grace y ^t yt bereth in the formare tōg / y ^• poynt hath lyē in theyr lyght y ^t haue trāslated y ^e scryptu­re all redy eyther out of greke into latē or out of ebrew in to eny of them both / as by many translacyōs which we rede all redy to thē y ^• be lerned appereth. Now as touchynge the harme y ^• may [...] grow by suche blynd bayardys as wyll whā they rede the byble in englysh be more bysy than wyll bycū thē. They y ^t touche y ^• poīt harpe vppō y ^e ryght strynge / & touch truly y ^e grete harme y ^t were lykely to grow to some folke / how be yt not by thoccasyon yet of thenglyshe trāslacyon / but by thoccasyon of theyr owne lewdenes & foly / which yet were not in my mīde a sufficyent cause to ex­clude y ^• trāslacyon & to put other folke frome y ^• benefyte therof / but rather to make puysyon agaynst suche abuse / & let a good thyng go forth. No wyse mā were there y ^• wold put all wepēs away bycause manquellers myste vse theym. Nor this letted not as I sayde y ^• scry­pture to be fyrst wrytē in a vulgar tōg: For y ^e scrypture as I sayde before was not wrytē but in a vulgare tong / such [...] as y ^• hole peple vnderstode / nor ī no se­crete cyphers but such comē letters as almost euery mā coud rede. For neither was y ^e ebrew nor y ^e greke tōg nor y ^e latē neyther / eny other spech thā such as al y ^• peple spake. And therfore yf we shold lay y ^t yt were euyll done to translate y ^• scrypture in to our tong / bycause yt ys vulgare & comē to euery englysh man / thā had yt bē as euyl done to trāslate it in to greke or in to laten / or to wryte [...] new testamēt fyrst ī greke or y ^e old tes [...] mēt in ebrew / bycause both those tōgꝭ were as very vulgare as ours. And yet sholde there by thys reason also not only y ^• scrypture be kept out of our tōg / But ouer y ^• shold y ^• redīg therof be for­boden bothe all suche laye people and all suche prestys to / as can no more than theyr grammer and very scantly that. All whych company though they [Page] can vnderstand the wordys / be yet as far from y ^e perceyuyng of the sentence in hard & doutfull tertys / as were our womē yf the scrypture were translated to our own lāgage. How be it of trouth seldome hath yt ben sene y ^t eny secte of heretyques hath bygonne of such vnlerned folke as nothyng coulde ellys but y ^e langage wherin they red y ^e scrypture / but ther hath alway comēly these sectꝭ sprōgē of y ^e pryde of suche folke / as had w ^t y ^e knowledge of y ^e tōge sū hygh ꝑsu [...] syō in thē self of theyr own lerning by­syde. To whose authoryte sū other folk haue sone after parte of malyce / parte of symplenes / & mych parte of pleasure & delyte in newfāglenes / fallē in & en­creaced y ^e facciō. But y ^t hed hath euer comenly ben eyther some prowde lerned man / or at the le [...]te bysyde the langage some proud smaterer in lernyng. So y ^t yf we shold for fere of heretyques that myght happe to growe therby kepe the sc [...]ypture out of eny tong / or out of vn­lerned mennys hand ys / we sholde for lyke fere be fayne to kepe yt out of all tongys / and out of lerned mēnys han­dys to / and wote not whom we might truste therwyth. Wherfore there ys as me thīketh no remedy but yf eny good thing shal go forward / somwhat must nedys be aduētured. And som folk wyl not fayle to be naught. Agaynst which thyngys prouy [...]y on must be made / y ^t as mych good may grow / & as lytel harm [...]ū as can be deuysed / & not to kepe the hole cōmodyte frō eny hole peple / by­cawse of harme y ^t by theyr owne foly & faw [...]e may cū to som parte. As though a lewde surgeon wold cut of the legge by the kne to kepe y ^t to fro y ^e gout / or cut of a mannys hed by y ^e sholders to kepe hym from tothe ache. There ys no tre­tyce of scrypture so harde but y ^t a good vertuous man or womā eyther / shall sūwhat fynde therin y ^t shall delyte and encreace theyr deuocyō bysydꝭ thys / y ^t euery prechynge shall be y ^e more plea­saūt & fru [...]eful vnto thē whā they haue in theyr mīd y ^t place of scrypture y ^t they shall there here expowned. For though yt be as yt is in dede / grete wysedome for a pre [...]hour to vse dyscreciō in hys p­chyng & to haue a respect vnto y ^e qualy­tees & capacytees of hys audyence / yet letteth y ^t no thing / but y ^t y ^e hole audyēce may w ^tout harme haue red & haue redy y ^e scrypture in mynde / y ^t he shall in hys prechīg declare & expowne. For no dout is there / but y ^e god and his holy spyryte hath so prudently tēpered theyr speche thorow y ^e hole corps of scrypture / y ^t eue­ry man may take good therby & no mā harme / but he y ^t wyll in the study therof / lene prowdly to y ^e foly of hys own [...] wytte. For al be yt y ^• Cryst dyd speke to the peple in parables & expowned them secretely to hys especyall dyscyples / & somtyme forbare to tell sū thyngys to thē also bycawse they were not as yet able to here them / & thappostles in lyke wyse dyd somtyme spare to speke to sū people y ^e thyngys that they dyd not let playnly to speke to sū other / yet letteth all thys nothynge the translacyon of the scrypture in to our owne tonge / no more than in the laten. Nor yt ys no cause to kepe the corps of the scryptur [...] owte of the handys of eny crysten peo­ple so many yerys fastely confermed in faythe / bycawse Cryste and hys ap­postles vsed suche prouysyon in theyre vtteraunce of so straunge and vn­herde mysteryes / eyther vnto Iewes Paynyms or newly crystened folke / excepte we wolde saye that all thexpo­sycyons [Page xcvii] whych Cryste made hym selfe vppon his owne parables vnto his se­crete seruaūtys and disciples w ^tdrawē from the peple / shold now at thys day be kepte in lyke wyse from y ^e cōmens / & no man suffred to rede or here theym but those that in his chyrch represent y ^e state and offyce of his appostles. which there wyll I wote well no wyse man say / consyderynge that those thyngys whych were than comenly most kept frō y ^e peple / be now most necessary for y ^e peple to know. As yt well appereth by all such thyngꝭ ī effecte as our sauyour at y ^e tyme taughte his apostles a parte. Wherof I wold not for my mynde w ^t ­hold the ꝓfyt y ^t one good deuout vnler­nedley man myght take by y ^e redyng / not for y ^e harme that an hūdred herety­ques wold fall in by theyr owne wyl­full abusyon / no more thā our sa [...]you [...] letted for the weale of such as wold be wyth his grace of his lytle chosen [...]ok­ke / to come in to thys world & he l [...]is offensionis / et petra scandali / the stone of stūblyng / and the stone of fallyng / and ruyne to all the wylfull wreches in y ^e worlde besyde. Fynally me thyn­keth that the constytucyon ꝓuyncyall of which we spake ryght now hath de­termyned thys questyon all redy. For whan y ^e clergye therin agreed that the englysh bybles shold remayne whych [...] ware translated afore Wyclyffꝭ dayes / they consequentely dyd agre y ^t to haue the byble in englysh was none hurte. And in y ^t they forbade eny new trāsla­cyon to be redde tyll yt were approued [...]y y ^e bishoppes yt appereth wel therby that theyre entent was y ^t the byshoppe shold approue yt yf he foūde yt fawte­lesse / & also of reason amend yt where yt were fawtye / but yf the man we [...] an heretyque that made yt / or the fawtis suche and so many / as yt were more ethe to make yt all new than mend yt. As yt happed for bothe poyntys in the translacyon of Tyndall.

¶Nowe yf yt so be y ^t yt wold happely be thought not a thyng me [...]ely to be aduentured / to set all on a flushe at onys / & dash rashly out holy scrypture in eue­ry lewde felowys tethe / yet thynketh me there mighte suche a moderacion b [...] takē therin / as neyther good vertuous lay folk shold lacke yt / nor rude & rashe braynes abuse yt. For it might be w ^t dylygēce well and truly trāslated by som good catholyke and well lerned man / or by dyuerse dyuydynge the laboure amonge theym / and after conferryng theyr seuerall partys together eche w ^t other. And after that myght the wor [...] be allowed and approued by the ordy­naryes / and by theyre authorytees so put vnto prent / as all the [...]opyes shold come hole vnto the bysshoppys hande. Whyche he maye after hys dyscrecyon and wysedome delyuer to suche as h [...] perceyueth honest sad and vertuous / w ^t a good monicyō & fatherly counsayl to vse yt reuerently wyth hūble h [...]rt & lowly mynd / rather sekyng therin oc­casyon of deuocyon than of dyspycyon. And prouydyng as mych as may be / y ^• the [...] be after the deceace of the partye brought agayn & reuerētly restored vnto the ordynary. So that as nere as maye be deuysed / no man haue yt bu [...] of the ordynaryes hande / and by hym thought [...] and reputed for suche / as shall belykely to vse yt to goddys ho­nour & meryt [...] of his own soule. Amōg whome yf eny be proued after to haue abused yt / than the vse therof to be forb [...]den hym / eyther for euer / or tyll [Page] he be waxē wyser. ¶By our lady quod youre frende thys way myslyketh not me. But who sholde set the pryce of the boke? ¶For sothe quod I that reken I a thynge of lytell force. For neyther were yt a grete mater for any man in maner to geue a grote or twayne aboue the meane pryce for a boke of so great profyte / nor for y ^• bysshop to gyue them all fre / wherin he myght serue hys dyo [...]yse wyth the coste of .x. li. I thynke or xx. markys. Whyche some I dare saye [...]here is no bysshop but he wold be glad to bestowe about a thynge that myght do hys hole dyocyse so specyall a plea­sure wyth suche a spyrytuall profyte. ¶By my [...]routh quod he yet wene I y ^t the people wolde grudge to haue yt on thys wyse delyuered theym at the bys­shops hand / and had leuer paye for yt to the pr [...]nter thā haue yt of y ^• bysshop fre. ¶It myght so happē wyth some q I. But ye [...] in myne opiniō there were in that maner more wylfulnesse / than wysedom or eny good mynd in such as wold not be content so to receyue them. And therfore I wolde thynke in good fayth y ^t yt wold so fortune ī fewe. But for god the more dowte wolde be / leste the [...] wolde grudge and holde them self sore greued / that wolde requyre yt and were happely denyed yt. Whych I suppose wolde not often happen vnto e [...]y honest howseholder to be by hys dys [...]yo [...] reuerently red in hys howse. But though yt w [...]re not takē to [...]ery lewd ladde in hys own handꝭ to [...]ede a lytel [...]d [...]ly whan he ly [...]/and th [...] [...] th [...] boke at hys helys / or among other such as hym selfe to kepe [...] quo [...]libet & a pot parlement vppon / I tr [...]we there wyll no wyse man fynde a fawte therin. [...]e [...]ake ryghte now [...] of the Iewes / among whome the hole people haue ye say the scrypture in theyr handys. And ye thought yt no reason that we shold reken crysten men les [...]e worthy therto than theym. Wherin I am as ye se of your owne opynyō. But yet wold god we had the lyke reuerēce to y ^e scrypture of god that they haue. For I assure you I haue herd very worsshypful folk say which haue bē in theyr houses / y ^t a mā coud not hyre a Iewe to syt down vpō hys byble of the olde testament / but he taketh yt wyth grete reuerēce in hand whan he wyll rede / & reuerētly layeth yt vp agayn whan he hath done. wher as we god forgyue vs take lytell re­gard to syt downe on our byble wyth the old testament & the new to. Whych homely handlyng as yt procedeth of lytell reuerence / so doth yt more & more engender in the mynde a neclygence & contempt of goddys holy wordys. We fynde also y ^t amonge the iewes though all theyre hole byble was wrytten in theyr vulgare tonge / and those bokys therof wherin theyr lawes were wryten were vsual in euery mānys handꝭ / as thyngs that god wold hau [...] comenly knowē / repeted / and kept in remembraūce / yet were there agayn certayn partys therof whych the comen people of the Iewes of olde tyme / bothe of [...]uerenc [...] and for the dyffycultye dyd forbere to medle wyth. But now sy [...]h [...] the [...]yle of the temple ys broken asunder that dyuyded among the iewes / y ^e p [...]ople from the syght of the secretys / & that god had sente hys holy spyryte to be a [...]ystent w ^t hys hole chyrch to terhe all necessary tro [...]the / though yt maye therfore be the b [...]tter suffered that no p [...]rte of holy scrypture were kept owte of honest lay mēnys hands / yet wolde [Page xxviii] I y ^• no ꝑte therof shold come in theyr / whych to theyr owne harme & happely theyr neyghbours to / wold handle yt ouer homely / and be to bold & besy therwyth. And also though holy scrypture be as ye sayd whyle ere / a medycyn for hym y ^t ys syk / & fode for hym y ^t is hole / yet syth there is many a body sore soule sykke that taketh hym selfe for hole / & in holy scrypture ys an hole feste of so myche dyuers vyaunde / that after the affeccyon & state of sundry stomakys / one may take harme by the self same y ^t shall do a nother good / and syk folke often haue suche a corrupte tallage in theyr taste that they moste lyke y ^t mete that ys most vnholsome for theym / yt were not therfore as me thynketh vn­reasonable that the ordynary whome godhath in the dyocyse appoynted for y ^e chyef physycyō / to dyscerne bytwene the hole and the syk / and bytwene dy­sease and dysease / shold after hys wys­dom and dyscrecyon appoynte euery body theyr parte / as he shold perceyue to be good & holsom for theym. And ther­fore as he shold not fayle to fynde ma­ny a man / to whome he myght cōmyt all the hole / so to say the trouthe I can se none harme therin / though he shold cōmyt vnto some mā y ^e gospell of Ma­thew / Mark or Luke / whom he shold yet forbede the gospell of saynt Iohn̄ / and suffre some to rede the actys of the apostles / whom he wolde not suffer to medle wyth the Apocalyps. Many were there I thynke y ^t shold take mych profyte by saynt Powlys epystle ad Ephesios / wherin he gyueth good coū sayle to euery kynde of people / and y [...]t shold fynd lytell frute for theyr vnderstandyng in hys epystle ad Rom [...]nos / conteynyng such hygh dyffycultyes as very fewe lerned men can very well attayne. And in lyke wyse wolde yt be in dyuers other partys of the byble as well in the olde testament as the new / so that as I saye though the bysshoppe myght vnto som lay man by take & conmytte wyth good aduyse & instrucciō y ^e hole byble to rede / yet myght he to som mā well & wyth reasō restrayn the re­dyng of som parte / and from som bysye body the m [...]dlynge wyth eny parte at all / more th [...]n he shall here in sermons set out and declared vnto hym / and in lyke wyse to take the byble awaye frō suche fo [...] agayne / as be proued by theyr blynde presumpcyon to abuse the occasyon of theyr profete vnto theyre own hurt and harme. And thus maye the bysshop order the scrypture in oure handys / wyth as good reason as the father doth by hys dyscrecyon appoyne which of hys chyldern may for his sad kepe a knyfe to cut hys mete / & whyche for hys wantonnes haue hys knyfe taken from hym for cuttynge of hys fyn­gers. And thus am I bold wythout preiudyce of other mennys iudgement / to shew you my mynd in this mater / how the scrypture myght without grete pa­rell and not wythout grete profyte / be brought in to oure tonge and taken to lay men and women both / not yet me­nyng therby but y ^t y ^e hole byble myght for my mynde be suffred to be spred a­brode in ēglysh. But yf y ^t were so mych dowted that parcase all myght therby be letted thē / wold I rather haue vsed suche moderacyon as I speke of or som suche other as wyser men can better deuyse. How be yt vppon that I red late in the pystle that the kynges hyghnes translated in to englyshe / of hys own whych hys grace made in laten answeryng [Page] to the letter of Luther / my mynd gyueth me y ^t hys maiesteis of hys blyssed zele so mynded to moue thys mater vnto the prela [...]ꝭ of the clergye / amōg whom I haue petreyued / som of y ^e gre­test and of the best of theyr own myn­dys well inclynable therto all redy / that we lay people shall in thys mater ere longe tyme passe excepte the fawte be founden in our selfe / be well & fully satysfyed and contēt. ¶In good fayth quod he that wyll in my mynd be very wel done. And now am I for my mynd in all thys mater fully content & satysfyed. ¶Well quod I than wyll we to dyner / and the remanaunt wyll we fynyshe after. And therwyth went we to mete.

¶The fyrst chapyter.

¶The author sheweth wherfore yt were not well done / to suffer Lu­thers bokis or eny other heretykes / to go abrode and be red amonge the peple / though there were some good thyngys in theym among y ^t bad.

WHen we had after dyner a lytell pau­sed / your frend & I drew our self aside ī to y ^e gardyn. And ther syttyng down in an herber / he bygan to entre forth in to y ^e mater / sayng that he had well perceyued that not in hys cuntre onely but also in the vnyuer syte where he had ben / there were that had none euyll opynyō of Luther / but thoughte that hys bokys were by the clergye forb [...]den of malyce and euyll wyll / to thende that folk sholde not su­rely se and perfaytely percyue what he sayth / or at the leste what thynge he meaneth by hys wordys. whych wyll not appere they thynk by a lyne taken owt in the myddys of a lefe / but by the dylygent consyderacyō of the hole ma­ter. Without whych mē myght impute a wronge blame they sayt / to the beste wryters that euer wrote ī thys world. But they thynke that the clergye wyll not haue hys bokys red / bycawse that in theym lay men may rede the prestys fawtys / whych was they say the very cause of the condempnacyon. For ellys whyther he had wryten well or [...]uyl / yet they say hys bokys had ben kept in mennys handys and red. For there ys they thynke therin though some parte were nought / meny thyngys yet well sayd / wherof ther was no reason that men sholde lese the profyte for the bad. And also reason men thynke yt were / that all were herd that cā be sayd tou­chyng the treuth to be knowen / concernynge the maters of our saluacyon / to thentent that all herd and perceyued / men may for theyr own suretie y ^t better these and hold the ryght way.

¶Forsoth q I yf yt were now dowt­ful and ambyguouse whyther y ^• chyrch of Cryst were in the ryght rule of doc­tryne or not / than were yt very neces­sary to gyue them all good audyence y ^t could and wold eny thynge dyspute on eyther partye for yt or agaynste yt / to thend that yf we were now in a wrōg way / we myghte leue yt and walke in some better. But now on y ^t tother syde yf yt so be as in dede yt is / that Crystꝭ chyrch hath the true doctryne all redy / & the self same that saynt Powle wold not gyue an aungell of heuen audyēce to the contrary / what wysdome were yt now therin to shew our selfe so mys­trustfull and wauerynge / that for to serche whyther our fayth were false or trewe / we shold gyue heryng not to an aungell of heuen / but to a fond frere / to an apostate / to an open incestuouse lechour / a playne lymme of the deuyll / and a manyfest messenger of hell. In whyche wordys yf ye wolde happely thynk that I vse my self to sore to call hym by suche odyouse namys / ye must consyder that he spareth not both vn­truly and wythout necessyte in hys raylyng [Page] bokys / to call by as euyll / theym whō his duty were hyghly to reuerēce / where as I do bytwene vs twayn call hym but as hym self hath shewed hym / in hys wrytynge / in hys lyuynge / and in hys mad maryage. And yet I ney­ther do yt nor wold / were yt not that y ^e mater selfe of reason dothe requyre yt. For my parte ys yt of necessyte to tell how naught he ys / bycause that y ^e wors the man ys the more madnes were yt for wyse men to gyue hys false fables herkenyng agaynst goddys vndouted trewthe / by hys holy spyryte taughte vnto hys chyrche / and by suche multy­tude of myracles / by so myche blode of holy martyrs / by the vertuouse lyuyng of so many blyssed confessours / by the puryte and clennesse of so many chaste wydowes and vndefouled vyrgyns / by the holsom doctryne of so many holy doctours / and fynally by the hole con­sent and agrement of all Crysten peple thys fyften hundred yere confermed. And therfore not eny respect vnto hys raylyng agaynst y ^e clergye / ys as some wold haue it seme the cause of hys con­dempnacyon and suppressyon of hys bokys. For the good men of the clergye be not so sore greued wyth theym that towche the fawtys of the bad / nor the bad theym selfe be not so renderered / that for y ^e onely talkyng of theyr fautꝭ they wolde bannyshe the bokis y ^t were good in other thyngys bysyde. For ellꝭ could not the bokys of many olde holy fathers haue endured so long / wherin the vycys of theym that in the clergye be naught / be very vehemētly rebuked. But the very cause why hys bokys be not suffred to be red / is bycause hys he­resyes be so many / and so abhomyna­ble / and the prouys therwyth he pretē ­deth to make theym probable be so far frome reason and trouth / and so farre agaynst the ryght vnderstandynge of holy scrypture / wherof vnder coloure of grete zele and affeccyon he laboreth to destroye the credence and good vse / and fynally so far stretcheth all thyng agaynst good maner and vertue / pro­uokyng the world to wrong opynions of god and boldenesse in synne & wre­chednes / that there can no good / but myche harme grow by the redyng. For yf there were the substaunce good / and of errour or ouersyght som cocle among the corne / whych myght be syfted ow [...] and the remanaūt stand in stede / men wold haue bē contēt therwyth as they be wyth suche other. But now ys hys not byspryent wyth a few spottys / but with more then halfe venym poysoned the hole wyne / and that right roten of yt selfe. And thys done yf purpose and malyce / not wythout an euyll spyryte in suche wyse walkyng wyth hys wordys / that the contagyon therof were lykely to enfecte a feble soule / as the sauoure of a sykenes sore enfecteth an hole body. Nor the trourth is not to be ler [...]ed of euery mannys mouth. For as Cry [...]t was content not that the deuyll shold cal hī goodꝭ sōne though it were stew so is he not contēt that a deuyls lymme as Luther ys or Tyndal / shold [...]eche hys flokke the trouth / for infec­tyng theym wyth theyr false deuylysh heresyes bysydes. For lyke wyse as the holy scripture of god bycause of y ^e good spyryte that made yt ys of hys owne nature apte to purge and amend the reder / though some that rede yt of theyr inuyncyble malyce turne yt to theyre harme / so do suche wrytyngys as Lu­th [...]rs ys / in the makynge wherof the [Page C] [...]uyll ys of counsayll and gyueth ther­wyth a breth of his as [...]stence / th [...]gh the goodnesse of some men m [...]yster the malyce therof / walkynge harmeles w̄t goddys helpe / as the prophete saythe vppon the serpent and the cocatrye [...]/& tredynge vppon the lyon and the dra­gon / yet be such workys of theym self alway right vnh [...]lsom to medle with / mete and apte to corrupt and infecte y ^e reder. For y ^e profe wherof we nede none other example / than this that we be in hād wythal / yf we cōsyder what good the redynge of hys bokes hath done in Saxony. And thys fynde we m [...]re thā to myche proued here amonge vs / that of .x. that vse to rede hys bokys / ye shal scantly fynd tway [...]/but that they not onely caste of prayer and fastynge and al such godly ver [...] [...]s holy scryptur commendeth / and the chyrch commaū deth / and vertu [...]ꝰ peple haue euer had in grete pryce / but also fall in playne cōtempte and hatered therof. So that what frute sholde gr [...] of the redyng ye may sone gesse.

¶The .ii. chapyter.

¶The author she [...]th many of Luthers heresies to be so ab [...]minable / and som parte also so peuysh / that y ^e very bare rehersall i [...] ynough wyth out eny ferther dyspycion th [...]ppō / to cause eny good man abhor [...]e thē / and to be ashamed also to seme so folyshe as to holde theym. And for a sample y ^e author reherseth dyu [...]rs / wherof some be newe set forthe by Tyndall in hys englyshe bokys / wors yet in som p [...]rte th [...]n hys may­ster Luther ys hym self.

ANd in good fayth I w [...]ld [...]ne that eny good m [...]n except some resonable neces [...] shold co [...]ell hym therto / ellys wolde yf he herd but hys opynyon onys rehersed / be very loth to lose hys tyme in the redyng / eyther of his fonde profe / or of the very tytles & namys therof agayn. ¶Yf they be such in dede quod your frende and that they be not mistaken or mysreported. ¶Me thynketh quod I that the frute whych ye se sprynge of theym / shold suffyse to make you perceyue theym for nought. And ywys a fr [...]rys lyuyng y ^e weddeth a nunne when hys lyuynge ys suche / shold make yt ethe to wyt that hys te­ching is not very good. ¶Surely quod he I can not say nay but that these be shrewde tokens. ¶I shall quod I do more for you. For I shall fynde the meanys that ye shall se his own bokꝭ / and therin perceyue yourself that men belye hym not. ¶I pray you quod he lette me here some of hys opynyons by mouth [...] the whyle / and for the seynge of them in hys owne bokys I shall be thynke me after.

¶Fyrst he bygan quod I wyth pardōs and wyth the popys power / denyenge fynally eny of both to be of eny effect at all.

¶And sone after to shewe what good spyryte moued hym / he denyed all the vii. sacramentys / except baptysme / pe­naūce / and the sacramēt of the awter / sayng playnly that all the remanaunt be but fayned thyngys and of none effecte.

¶Now these y ^t he leueth for good / it ys good to se how he handleth theym. For in penaunce he saythe / that there neyther nedeth contrycyon nor satys­faccyō. Also he sayth that there nedeth no preste for the heryng of confessyon / but that [...]uery man and euery woman to / ys as suffycient to here confession & [Page] assoyle and do all that longeth to a confessoure as ys a preste.

¶Mary syr quod your frend this were an easy way for one thynge. For the sorest thyng that I fynde in confes [...]on / ys that whan I see many confessours at a pardō / yet can I scant lyke one of theym so well vppon the fyght / that I wolde tell eny suche talys to onys in seuen yere & I myghte che [...]e. But now yf I myght after Luthers way be confessed to a fayre woman / I wolde not let to be confessed wekely. ¶Ye wolde q I peraduenture tell her a tale that ye wolde not tell euery man. But yet yf some men told som talys to a fayre woman that they tell in confessyon to a fowle frere / they wold wysh I wene among that they had kept theyr coun­sayle in theyr own brest. ¶Mary quod he that maye happen also in the con­fessyon that ys made vnto a preste. ¶Pos [...]yble yt were in dede quod I. And Tyndall in hys boke of obedyēce or rather dysobedyence sayth / that the curatys do go and shew the bysshops y ^e confessyōs of such as be ryche in theyr paryshes / and that the byshoppys ther­vppon do cyte theym and lay theyr se­crete synnys to theyre charge / & eyther put them to open shamefull penaunce / or cōpell theym to paye at the byshyps pleasure. Now dare I be bold to thy / & I suppose all the honeste men in thys realme wyll say and swere the same / y ^t this is a very folysh falshed ymagyned of hys owne mynde / wherof he neuer saw the sample in hys lyfe. We se in sū rather the cōtrary faut / that not onely the ryche but the pore also / kepe open quenys and lyue in open aduoutry / w ^t out payment or penaūce or [...]ny thyng almoste onys sayde vnto thē. But therwyth fyndeth Tyndall no faut in the bysshops. For he say [...] playnely that y ^e bysshop hath none authoryte to [...] eny such thynge at all. But he letteth not on the tother syde to belye the bys­shops and the curatꝭ to / faynyng that the tone doth vtter folkys confessyon [...] to the tother. And whan he hath so by­lyed them / then forthwyth as though he had proued hys tale true / he taketh the same fals fayned lye for a grounde theruppon to byeld the destruccyon of that holy sacrament of penaunce. For vppon that lye and suche other lyke / he sayth playnly that confessyō to y ^e preste is the worst thyng y ^t euer was founde. Now yf y ^t were trew as yt is as false as he that sayd yt / how happed yt than (whych questyon Luther & he be asked often and alway make as they herd yt not) how happed yt I say y ^t of so many vertuouse wyse and cūning fathers as haue ben in Crystys chyrch in so many hundred yerys / neuer none had y ^e wyt nor the grace to spye thys gret thyng / but all teche confessyon / tyll now that Tyndal ca [...]/whych yet in thys poynt [...] his maister Luther For he saith he wolde in eny wyse haue confessyon stand / but he wold haue yt made at ly­bertye as well to women as men. But Tyndall wyl haue none at al / bycause he lysteth to belye both the byshoppys & the curatys / faynyng that they sholde bytwene them dysclose our confessyōs. ¶In faythe quod your frend that ys a thynge that I neuer herd to haue happened. ¶Nor he neyther quod I that dare I boldely saye. And yet I wote well as ye sayd ryght now / that prestꝭ shold vtter folkys confessyon were wel po [...]yble / and in many of thē nothynge in thys worlde more lykely neyther / [Page Ci] [...]f god and hys holy spyryte were not as yt is assystent and workynge wyth hys holy sacrament. But surely where as there be many thyngys that [...] & clerely proue the sacramēt of cōfe [...]ō t [...] be a thyng instytu [...] & d [...]ysed by god / yet [...] yf all y ^e remanaūt la [...]hed / thys [...] thyngs were vnto me a playne per [...]syon & a full profe [...]whyche thynge I fynde in the noble boke that the kyn­gys hyghnes made agaynste Luther / that ys to wyt that in so commen & custome of confessyon ofter than [...]nys in the yere / where no man letteth bol­dely to tell such hys secretys / as vppō the dyscouerynge or close kepynge therof hys honestye comenly & often tyme hys lyfe also dependeth / so many sym­ple as be of that sorte y ^t here theym / and in all other thynge so lyghte and laues of theyre tonge / and some therwyth so lewde in all theyre lyuynge / that for money they force lytell to stele robbe and murder to / and myght many tymes wyth the dysclosynge of some suche thyngys gete so myche as some of theym wolde kyll a man for less [...]/yet fynde we neuer eny man ta­ke harme by hys confessyon / or cause gyuen of complaynte / thorowe [...]ny suche secretts vttred and shewed by the confessoure. ¶In good fayth [...] quod he thys is very trowthe and a grete thynge in myne opynyon. But vndowtely yf confessyon came [...]ny [...] to womens erys / there wolde be a sore chaunge. For yt wolde be harde for god and the deuyll to / to kepe theyre tongys. ¶Yes yes quod I [...] [...] can kepe a counsayll well ynought. For though she tell a gossyppe she tel­leth yt but in counsayle yet / nor that gosseppe to her gosseppe neyther / and so whan all the gosseppys in the towne [...]nowe yt / yet ys yt but counsayll styll: And therfore I saye yt not for eny harme that wolde come by theym but for the neweltye therof.

¶Nowe in [...]rnest quod yo [...] frende thys was a myche more madde i [...]uen­cyon of Luther / and that Luther is in a maner as madde as Tyndall. For it were as good almoste to haue no [...]nfessyon at all / as to set women to here yt. ¶Forsothe quod I yf yt hadde ben wys [...]dome and not agaynst goddꝭ wyll / yt wolde of lykelyhedde haue b [...] founden by some good men by­fore these dayes / in thys longe tyme of so many hundred yerys. Howe be yt he gooth nere ynoughe to take yt all awaye. And dyuerse of hys scolers bysyde Tyndall do nowe denye yt vt­terly. And hym selfe leueth lytell sub­staunce and lytell frute therin. For he wolde that we sholde not care myche for eny full confessyon of all deedly synnys / nor be very studyouse in the gatherynge of oure fawtys to mynde / nor ponderynge the cyrcumstauncys nor the wryght and grauyte therof / nor takyng eny sorow therfore. Now those thyngys taken away / and the sa­crament of pen [...]unce lefte suche as he wolde haue yt / consyder in your selfe what frute w [...]re a man lykely to fynd in yt / he y ^t taketh a confessoure he for­ceth not wh [...] ̄ / & thē cōfesseth he forceth not what / dysposynge hym to [...]epen­taūce he forceth not how / good wortkꝭ in satysfacciō [...]ompteth for nought / what maner of amēdemēt shal this mā cū to? and specyally yf byside al this he may take to his cōfessour a fayr womā such as a yonge man wolde haue a lust to breke hys mynde vnto / dothe yt not [Page] playn [...]ly appere that thys fonde felow so playeth wyth thys holy sacrament of penaunce / that he [...]o [...]th abowt vt­terly to dystroye yt? [...] yet ys thys one of the th [...] that he loueth / takyng [...] expressely. ¶Surely quod your frende so d [...]th [...]e this to as thynketh me. ¶For [...]th quod I and he han­deled the sacrament of baptysme not myche better. For he magnyfyeth bap­tysme but to the suppressyō of penaūce [...] of all goodlyuyng. For therin he te­cheth that the sacrament self [...] hath no vertue at all / but the fayth onely.

¶Item he techeth that onely faythe suffyseth to our saluacyō wyth our baptysme / wythout good workꝭ. He sayth also that yt ys sacrylege to go abowte to please god wyth eny workys & not wyth fayth onely.

¶Item that no man can do eny good worke.

¶Item that the good and ryghtuou [...] man alway synneth in doyng well.

¶Item that no synne can dampne eny crysten man / but only lac [...]e of bylef. For he sayth that our fayth su [...]eth vp all our synnys how gre [...]e so euer they be.

¶Item he techeth that no man hath no fre wyll / nor can eny thyng do therwyth / not though the helpe of grace be ioyned thervnto / but that euery thyng that we do good and badde / we do no­thyng at all there in our selfe / but onely suffer god to do all thyng in vs good and badde / as were ys wrought in to an ymage or a candell by the mannys hande wythout eny thyng doyng ther to yt self.

¶Item he sayth that god ys as veryly the author and cause of the euyll wyll of Iudas in betrayeng of Cryst / as of the good wyll of Cryst in [...] hys p [...]yon.

¶In matrymony he saythe playn [...]ly that yt [...] s [...]rament / and so s [...]y [...]e Tyndall to.

¶Item that yf a mā be not able to do hys dutye to hys wyfe / he ys bounden secretely wythout sclaūder to prouyde a nother to do yt for hym. ¶Forsoth& abque; your frende thys was courteys [...]y con­sydered of hym / he ys a very gentyl­man I [...] you. It ys no merueyl though hys wyfe be well [...]e [...]mynge yf he make her suche prouysyon. ¶Sure­ly quod I thys wyse deuyse hathe he / and myche other bestelynes [...] he saythe in such thyngys and hys dyscyples af­ter him of such sort as honest erys coud scant abyde the herynge.

¶In the sacramēt of order he sayth / y ^t presthede and all holy orders be but a fayned inuencyon.

¶Item y ^t euery crys [...]e [...] m [...]nand euery crysten woman ys a preste.

¶Item that euery mā may consecrate the body of Cryst. ¶Thys ys a shame­full saynge in good faythe quod you [...]e frend. ¶Abyde ye q I and ye shal here wurse yet. For he ferther y ^t euery woman and chylde may consecrate the body of our lord. ¶Surely quod he thā ys the man m [...] outryght. ¶He sayth quod I ferther yet / that the canon of y ^e masse ys false.

¶Item that y ^e hoste in y ^e masse is none [...]blacyon nor sacryfyce.

¶Item that the masse wyth hys c [...]nō after the fourme that ys and euer hath ben vsed in Crystys chyrche / ys sacry­lege and abomynacyon.

¶And thoughe myche of thys concer­neth hys dāpnable heresyes [...]o [...]thīg y ^• blessyd sacramēt of y ^• auter / yet sayth h [...] [Page Cii] therof many lewd doctrynes m [...]. And amonge other he techeth that yt ys he­resye to byleue that there ys not very brede and very wyne in the sacramēt of the auther ioynyd wyth the bodye & blode of our lorde.

¶Item Swynglius and Ecolam [...] ­dius scolers of Luther haue byteded ferther vppon this vngracyouse groūd of theyr mayster / and teche that the sa­crament of the altare ys not the very body nor blo [...]d of oure lorde at all. And Luther hym selfe all be yt he now wryteth agaynste theym there in / yet (as yt by many thyngys appereth) mynded and intended to putte forthe by laysour the same heresye hym self / tyll he chaunged hys mynde for enuye that he bare towarde theym / whan he saw y ^t they wold be hedys of a secte theym selfe (for that cowlde he suffer no man to be but hym self) But byfore as I saye he dyd entende yt hymselfe. And therfore he made a way towarde yt by these other heresyes that I ha­ue rehersed you / and by dyuerse other mo.

¶For he techeth also that the masse auayleth no man quyck nor dede / but onely to the preste hym selfe.

¶Item he techeth that men sholde go to masse as well after sowper as byfore brake faste / and in hys commen clothes as he g [...]th all daye wythout lyght or eny other honorable ryte vsed therin.

¶Item he saythe yt were beste that men sholde neuer be howe seled / but onys in theyre lyfe. And that ne­uer tyll they lye a dyenge / as they be but onys crystened / and that at theyre begynnynge.

¶Item he techeth that euery man and woman shold take the holy sacramēt / and spare not to touche yt and handell yt as mych as theym lyst.

¶Item he saythe that the blyssed sa­crament of the awter ys ordayned of god to be receyued / but not to be wor­shypped. ¶In fayth quod your frende these thyngys be farre owte of course. ¶Yt see quod I now how he handleth all the blyssed sacramentys.

¶But now hathe he other wylde here­syes at large. For he techeth agaynste scrypture and all reason that no cry­sten man is or can be bounden by eny lawe made amonge men / nor ys not bounden to obserue or kepe eny.

¶Item he techeth that there ys no purgatory.

¶Item that all mēnys soulys lye styll and slepe tyll the daye of dome.

¶Item that no man sholde praye to sayntys nor sette by eny holy relyques nor pylgrymagys.

¶By my trouthe quod youre frende I hadde forgoten / that whan I was n [...]we in the vnyuersyte in the commu­nycacyon y ^t I had w ^t my frendꝭ there in that mater / one of theym obiected agaynste me / that the worshyppe of y­magys haue he ere thys condempned by a grete counsayll in Grece. ¶ Ther was ī dede q I [...] coūsayl onys in gre [...]e gathered by an emperoure / that then was an heretyque there whyche was after in the tyghteth Synode by the generall counsayll dampned and ad­nulled. But thys no more doth to the mater / thē yf there wold now in Saxony and Swych [...]rland and suche other placꝭ such peple as swarne fro y ^e fayth g [...]ther theym selfe together and kepe [...] they wold call yt a generall coun­sayll [Page] /wherin they myght deter [...]yne what they wold. And yet were all that no preiudyce to the ryght byleue of the catholyque chyrche / whych ys alwaye that knowen people that styll perseuer as one body wyth our sauyour Cryst in theyr former fast confermed fayth / frō whych faythfull body these other wy­therynge brawnches be blowne away by the deuyll. And therfore as y ^e cowld make none authoryte agaynst the true [...]ayth of the chyrch / so could that coun­sayle in grete no thynge proue theyre purpose / whyche made none interrup­cyon of the ryghte byleue and godly custume of worshyp done to sayntys & ymages / that yet dyd for all that cōty­nue styll in all the catholyke chyrche of Cryste / and euer synnys hath done. ¶Forsothe quod he that ys trouth.

¶Yet went neuer q I y ^e counsayle in Grece scysmatycal as yt was eny thīg so far as Luther and Tyndall & theyr company whych leue no saynt vnblas­phemed / nor Crystys own mother neyther.

¶For Luther can not abyde the comē anthē of our lady and the most de [...]o [...]t Salue regina / bycause we therin call that blyssed vyrgyn our aduocate.

¶Item euery other woman nowe ly­uyng yf she haue the same fayth maye by prayed vnto as our lady / and wyth her prayer as myche profyte vs.

¶Item he techeth that men sholde do no worshyp to y ^e holy crosse that Cryst dyed on / saynge that yf he had yt hole or all the pyecys therof / he wold caste yt in such a place as no sone shold shyne theron / to thende yt shold neuer be foū den to be worshypped more.

¶Item of all s [...]estys he sayth y ^t he ha­teth the feest of the holy crosse / and y ^e feest of Corpus christi.

¶He techeth also that no man or woman ys bounden to kepe and obser [...]e eny vowe that h [...] hath made to god [...] vyrgynyte / or wydowhed / or other ch [...] styte out of maryage / but y ^t they maye mary at theyr lybertye theyr vowe not wythstandyng. ¶And how proueth [...]e that quod your frend? ¶Mary quod I by the brekyng of hys owne / wh [...]n he maryed the nun [...]e. And now he ray­leth agaynst all cha [...]y [...]/& sayth [...] yf a preste ly [...]e chaste / he ys lyke to the prestys of the ydole [...]ybeles.

¶Longe wold yt be to wryte you all thabomynable heresyes of thys newe secte. But some of theym haue I rehersed / that ye may therby consyder why­ther he that techeth suche thyngys / go not about vtterly to dystroye the hole [...]ayth / relygyon / and vertue of crystendom. And that he is not in eny of these poyntis bylyed / I shall fynde y ^e meane that ye shall se yt in hys owne bokys. And there shall ye se how madly h [...] la­boreth to proue theym. ¶Proue theym quod your frend? the substaūce of these maters be to abomynable to be reaso­ned. And to make hym hated of all good folke / ys ynoughe to here theym rehersed. But I meruayl me mych how he fell in to suche an hepe of hyresyes.

¶The .iii. chapyter.

¶The author sheweth by what oc­casyon that Luther fyrste fell to the deuy [...]ing of these heresyes. And that the occasyon was suche as well de­clareth / that he was prycked therto by malyce / and euer proceded frome euyll to worse / not wyttyng where to hold hym / & y ^t [...]e refuseth to stand to the iudgemēt of eny folke erthely [Page Ciii] concernynge the trenth or falsh [...]d of hys opynyons saue onely hym self.

NOw that is somwhat worth to consyder / how thys lewde frere bygan to fall in these myscheuous ma­ters, Ye shall vnderstande that there was a pardō obtained in Saxony / for whyche pardon as the maner ys ther / Luther was the precheour & preched to the peple / exhortyng them therto / & auauncynge the authoryte therof all y ^t he possyble myght / not w ^tout hys grete aduauntage therfore. So happed yt than sone after / that the settyng forth of the pardon wyth thaduauntage therof / was taken frō hym and set to a no­ther. For angre wherof he fell in to suche a fury / y ^• forthwyth he bygan to wryte agaynst all pardons. How be yt because the mater was new & straūge / he bygan fyrst by way of dowtys and questyons onely / submyttyng hym self & hys wrytynge to the iudgemēt of the pope / & desyryng to be enformed of the trouth wheruppō whā he was by wry­ting answered by y ^e mayster of y ^e popys palays / thā waxed he more wode & fell to raylyng agaynst hym / & made also a nother [...] boke agaynst the power of the pope / affermyng y ^t hys power vppō the chyrch was neuer instytute of god / but ordeyned only by the cōmune cōsent of crystē peple for auoydynge of scysmys. But yet he sayd y ^t all crystē men were bounden to stand and ob [...]y therunto / and that y ^e Bohemes were dampnable heretyques for doyng the cōtrary. But sone after whan he was in suche wyse answered by good and cūnyng men / y ^t he ꝑceyued hym selfe vnable to defend that he had affermed / than fell he from reasonyng to raylyng / and vtterly de­nyed that he had byfore affermed. And thā bygan to wryte that the pope had no power at all / neyther by god nor man. And that the Bohemes whom he had in hys wrytyngys byfore called dāpnable heretykes / were good crystē men / and al theyr opynyons good and catholyque. Than whan he was cyted by the popes holynes to appere / he ap­peled to the nexte generall counsayle / whyche sholde be gathered in the holy goost. So that what so euer generall coūsayle were after assēbled / he myght geste and rayle theron / & saye yt was not it that he appeled vnto / for yt was not assembled in the holy goost. ¶ He toke quod your frend a good wyly way ¶As wyly as yt was q I yet wold he not stand therby / but fledde frō that to a nother. Now shall ye vnderstand / y ^• yet sone after thys in y ^e boke by whych he not answereth but rayleth agaynst that boke wherin our souerayne lord y ^e kynge lyke a moost faythfull vertuous and moost erudyte prynce / euydently & effectually reuynced and confuted the moost venemous and pestylent boke of Luther entyteled the captyuyte of Babylon / in whych he laboreth to destroy the holy sacramētys of Cristis chyrch [...] in that boke I saye Luther whych had byfore appeled to then ex [...]general coū ­sayll / vtterly denyeth the authoryte of all generall counsayllys / and set­teth theym all at nowghte. ¶ By my trouth quod your frend eyther was the man very neclygent byfore / or very naught after / whan he chaungeth so often / and wryteth euer the longer the more contrary / not to hys aduer­sary onely / but also to hym selfe. But I pray you how excuseth he hys incon­staunce? ¶Mary quod I he sayth that he seethe ferther than he sawe before. [Page] whervnto the kyngys grace sheweth hym / that yt were vnlykely / that he shold se better through a payre of euyll spectacles of ire & enuye. ¶Uery true quod your frende by my trouthe. But yet I here saye that he hathe offred to stande at the iudgement of lerned men in all hys maters / yf hys offre had ben takē ī tyme. ¶In dede q I onys he ꝓ­mysed to stande to the iudgement of y ^e vnyuersyte of Parys / & theruppō was there open dyspycyons kepte / and the very wordꝭ wryttē by notaryes sworē for bothe the partyes. But whan hys opynyons were after at Parys by the vnyuersyte condempned / than he refu­sed to stand to theyr iudgement / & fell agayne to hys olde craft of raylynge. ¶He appered also at Wormys before the emperoure and the pryncys of the empyre by a sufeconducte. And there recognysed and knowleged as well the sayde pestylent booke wryten a­gaynste the sacramentys / as many o­ther of lyke sorte to be hys owne / and offred to abyde by theym. Whyche he myght boldely do / beyng by the saufe conducte in good suretye of hym selfe that he coulde take none harme. Than was he moued to dyspycyons vppon y ^e artycles / so that he sholde agree vppon som persons vertuous and wel lerned / y ^t shold be iudgys of that dyspycyons / and that he sholde be content to stand to theyre iudgement vppon the same. Wheruppon he agreed to come to dys­pycyons / but he wold in no wyse agre to make eny mē lyuing iudges vppō it / nor stād to no mānis iudgemēt erthly.

¶The .iiii. chapyter.

¶The author sheweth how y ^t Luther in the boke that hym self made of hys owne actys at the cyte of wormys in almayn / doth so madly ouerse hym selfe / y ^t he dyscloseth vnware certayne folyes of hym self / whych a man wyll well laugh at and mer­uayle mych to se yt.

ANd that these thyngys be true / yt well appereth to all y ^e world in the boke y ^t he made hym selfe of his demeanure / and hys actys at the cytye called Wormys in almayne. Whyche boke who so redeth / shall haue a grete pleasure to se therin / both the frantyke vaynglory of y ^e fond frere / & yet there wythal to se hym caryed out with foly so far from hym selfe / that in a lyne or twayne he dyscouereth all that he wēt abowte to hyde in all the boke bysyde. For ye shall vnderstand that albeyt he made that boke hym self / yet he made it so that he wold yt shold seme to haue ben of some other mannys makynge & not of hys own / to thentent that suche worshypfull wordys as he speketh of hym selfe / myght make hym in therys of the reder / seme some honorable per­son. Whych wordys ellys he wyst well spoken of hys own mouth / all y ^e world wolde wonder on. Now in thys boke bysyde that he leueth out som thyngys there sayde and spoken where the wor­dys wryten in coulde do hym no wor­shyp / and som thyngys recyteth wyth aduauntage for hys parte / rehersyng y ^e tother syde nakedly and barely & pared of to make it seme the more slender / one thynge he obserueth dylygently / that where as spekynge of the emperour he calleth hym neuer but symply and syn­gly charles / he neuer speketh of hym selfe but he setteth forthe hys name in grete capytall letters and solempne tytles / The Mā of God Luther. And where as they that spake agaynst hys [Page Ciiii] errours / he wryteth that they brast out in to vyrulent and venimouse wordꝭ / whan he cometh to hys owne answer / th [...]n he wryteth in thys wyse / but thā D. Martine for hys incredyble huma­nyt [...] & bountye answered in thys wyse benygnely. And somtyme wyth these wordys / the most benygne father most myldely made answere. And fynally he fynysshed and endeth his boke as yt were wyth a Gloria patri to the hole psalme in this wyse / This holy deuout man therfore euen borne to teche and preserue the gospel of god / our lord lōg preserue for hys chyrch wyth hys holy word also Amē. Now who was there euer borne so suspycyoꝰ that euer wold haue suspected that he whyche wrote such gloryous wordys of Luther sh [...]ld be Luther hym selfe. For where shold a man fynde so very a vayngloryouse fole / that wold not in hym self be ash [...] med of hym selfe to thynke suche thyn­gys. But now ye that rede this / I pray you for goddꝭ sake se how vtterly this ych and tyklyng of vanyte and vayn­glory hadde cast hym clene bysyde hys mynd and memorye. For where as all the boke bysyde was so dyuysed & h [...]n­d [...]led / that it sholde seme some other to haue made yt and not hym self / sodeynly the fond felowe bewrayed hym selfe vnware. For in one place forgettynge hym selfe / he speketh in thys wyse / Whan thys was spoken / than the oratour of y ^• empyre in a chydyng maner sayde that I had not answered to the purpose / and that those thyngis whych had ben dampned and determyned in generall counsayls of old / ought not now of newe to be brought agayne in questyon by me / and therfore I sholde gyue a playn answer whyther I wold reuoke myne errours or not. Than vnto this I answered in this wyse. Syth that yt ys so. &c. Lo here may ye se the incredyble humylyte and lowly mynd of thys moste benygne father / whyche vnder the vysour of a straūge herald / bloweth out hym selfe his owne boste. Than may ye se therwyth hys merue­louse profounde prudēce / that had not the wyt to beware that hym selfe be­wrayed not his own so folysh a deuyce / in the vayne auauntyng of hys owne false boste and prayse / that though the wordys had ben true / yet wold almost a very natural fole haue ben ashamed of hym selfe to wryte theym. ¶By my trouthe quod youre frende thys deuyse was madly mynded of Luther / & mad­ly handled / & madly ouersene / to shew hym selfe so fond / but yf pryde as the prouerbe ys must nedys haue a shame.

¶The .v. chapyter.

¶The author sheweth y ^e parpetual inconstaunce of Luther / and hys cō ­traryete and repugnaunce agaynst hym selfe.

NOw as for hys cōstaunce appe­reth quod I by that I haue by­fore rehersed of his contynuall chaūge ī his heresyes fro day to day / fro worse to worse / whych course he kept not onely in the maters aboue rehersed / but almoost in all the remanaunt. For as concerning purgatory / he wrote fyrste that all though it coulde not be proued by euydent scrypture as he affermed / yet was there no dowte but that there ys purgatory / and that thyng he sayd was of all crysten men fermely to be byleued. And than he wrote y ^• he won­dred of the madnes of suche false and folyshe heretyques as were borne w ^tin one hundred yere passed / and are not [Page] ashamed to denye purgatory / whyche the hole chyrche of Cryst hath byleued thys fyftene hundred yere. Now what constaunce ys there in thys frere / that wrote thys of heretyques that denye purgatory / and wythin a whyle after denyeth yt hym selfe / sayng in the ser­mon that he wrote of the ryche man & Lazare / that all mennys sowlys lye styll and slepe tyll domys day.

¶Mary quod your frend thā hath som mā had a slepe of a fayre length. They wyll I wene whan they wake forgete some of theyr dremys. ¶By my fayth quod I he that byleueth Luther y ^t hys soule shall slepe so long / shall whan he dyeth slepe in shrewd reste. ¶I myche meruayle quod your frend what euyll ayled hym to fynd out thys fond foly. ¶To thys opynyon quod I / or rather to the faynyng of thys opynyon (for I veryly thynke that hym selfe thynketh not as he wryteth) he fell for enuye & hatered that he bare to prestehode / by the malyce of whyche hys vngracyous mynde / he rather were cōtent that all the worlde lay in the fyre of purgatory tyll domys daye / than that there were one peny gyuen to a preste to praye for eny sowle. ¶Thys ys quod your frend very lykely.

¶Lyke constaūce quod I hath he vsed in the mater of holy vowes. For in hys boke of the captyuyte of Babylon / he wryteth that neyther mā nor aungell ys able to dyspense w ^t the vowe made by mā to god. And sone after he wrote that no vowe cowlde bynde eny man / but that euery man may boldely breke theym of hys owne hed. But yt well appereth that he wrote the fyrst of angre and malyce towarde the pope / and than chaunged to the second of a lecherous lust to the nunne that he mynded to mary.

¶The .vi. chapyter.

¶The author sheweth howe y ^• Lu­ther hath be fayne for the defence of hys vndefēcyble errours / to go back and forsake all the maner of profe & tryall / whyche he fyrst promysed to stand to. And now lyke a man shamfull and shamelesse / hath no profe in the world but hys owne word / and calleth that the word of god.

HIs inconstaunte wyt and very deuylyshe entent specyally she­wed yt self / by thys also whych I shal now reherse you. In the begynnyng y ^e man had the mynde that comenly such foles haue / he rekened all the worlde wylde gese saue hym selfe / and all the wyt and lernyng to stand in hys own hed. And than wenynge that he sholde fynde no matche / but that he sholde as he lyst be able to proue y ^e mo [...]e made of grene chese / he ꝓfessed in his bokis y ^t he wold for y ^e profe or reproue of hys opy­nyons / stand to naturall reason / to the authoryte of the olde holy fathers / the lawes and canons of Crystys chyrche / and to the holy scrypture of god wyth thinterptacyōs of y ^e old holy doctours. But so [...]e after whā he [...] perceyued hym self in hys opynyon deceyued / and that he saw hym selfe confuted and conclu­ded euydently both by scrypture / natu­rall reason / the lawys and determynacyons of the chyrche / and the hole con­sent of the holy fathers interpretours of holy scrypture / than bygā he to syng a nother songe. For than as for reason he refused to stand to / saynge that the maters of our fayth be thyngys aboue reason / and that reason hyndereth vs in our fayth / & is vnto fayth an enmy. [Page Cv] And as for the lawes of y ^e chyrche / he wyth other blasphemouse heretyques burned vp openly at [...]yttēberge / syn­ [...]nge in derysyon a dyryge about the fyre for y ^e lawys soule. And thā wolde he stād [...]nothyng but only scrypture [...] not to that neyther but yf yt were very playne & euydent. But now yf yt were in questyō whyther the scrypture were euydent [...] for hym or agaynst hym / ther in wold he stand to no mannys iudge­ment but hys owne. For as for the hole fayth of Cryrstys chyrch contynued by so many hundred yerys / he set vtterly at naught / callyng yt mennys deuyeꝭ. And in scrypture the interpretacion of saynt Hierome / saynt Austayne / saynt Ambrose / and all the old holy fathers of so many yerys passed / he no thynge wolde esteme / [...]ut with blasphemouse wordis letted not to wryte / I care not for Austayn / I care not for an hūdred cypryanes / I care not for a thousand Hieromis / I care not but for scrypture alone / and that ys playn on my parte. As though none of these olde holy cū ­nynge men had vnderstand eny scryp­ture tyll he came. Now was he by this vnreasonable maner dreuē to a nother deuylysh deuyce agaynst sayntys. For to thentent that theyr authoryte shold no by the deuocyon and reuerence that all good men bere theym mynysh hys credēce / he was forced to labor to brīg men in y ^e heresye that they shold praye to no sayntys / but wolde haue theyre ymagys drawen downe all / theyr pyl­grymagys left vp / all theyre relyques cast out / all theyr honour and mennys deuocyon toward theym wythdrawē / so ferforth that he could neyther abyde the honoure of our blessed lady / nor the holy crosse / nor Crystys blyssed body / as playnly declareth hys abomynable bokys.

¶The .vii. chapyter.

¶The author sheweth what thyn­gys causyd y ^e people to fall in to Lu­thers fond and furyouse secte. And he sheweth also what myschyef the folowers of that secte haue done in Almayne / Lombardy / & Rome.

IT ys quod your frende a wonder to me / that the people beyng be­fore brought vp in the ryght bylyefe / cowlde fynde in theyre hartys to gyue hym audyence in some suche heresyes as these be. ¶Ye must vnderstand and maye perceyue quod I that he dyd not set forth all at onys. But as Tyndale hath bygonne here in englond wyth y ^e thyng that had a good vysage / though he had corrupted yt and ment nought in dede / puttynge for the fyrst the new te [...]ament in suche wyse handled / that vnlerned folk were lykly to take harm and conceyue dyuers heresyes in theyr hartys / ere they cowlde perceyue hys falshed / and than hath synnys by .ii. other bokys openly shewed hym selfe to lacke nothyng of Luther / but that he hath not yet maryed a nūne / so dyd Luther also put forth in y ^e begynnyng no more but the mater of pardōs as I told you / and therin nothyng a [...]fermed neyther agaynst the determynacion of y ^e chyrch / but submytted hym selfe ther to. Nowe wyth thys demeanure was there no man offended. But yet dyd he that tyme entende a ferther myschyef / whych he lytell and lytell pursued and brought to passe. And one specyal thīg wyth whyche he spyced all the poyson / was the lybartye that he so hyghly cō ­mended vnto the people / brynging thē in byleue that hauīg fayth / they neded [Page] nothynge ellys. For as for fastynge / prayer / and suche other thyngys / he taught theym to neglecte and set at nought as vayn and vnfrutefull cere­monyes / techynge theym also that be­ynge faythfull crystyens / they were so nere cosyns to Cryst / that they be in a full fredome and lybartye dyscharged of all gouernours & all maner lawys spyrytuall or temporall / except the gospell only. And albe yt he sayd that of a specyal ꝑfeccyō yt shold be well done to suffer and bere the rule and authoryte of popys pryncys & other gouernours / whyche rule & authoryte he calleth but onely tyranny / yet he saythe that the people be so fre by fayth / that they be no more bounden therto / then they be bounden to suffre wrong. And this doctryne also techeth Tyndall / as the specyall mater of hys holy boke of dyso­bedyence. Now was thys doctryne in Almayn of the comen vplandysh peple so pleasauntly herde / that yt blynded theym in the lokynge the remenaunt & could not suffer theym to consyder and se what ende the same wold in conclu­syon cū to. The temporall lordys were glad also to here thys gere agaynst the clergye / and the people as glad to here yt agaynst the clergye / and agaynst y ^e lordis to / and agaynst all theyr gouer­nours of euery good towne and cytye. And fynally so far went yt forward / that at the last yt bygan to brast owt and fall to open force and vyolence. For entēdīg to bygyn at y ^e feblest / ther gathered theym together for y ^t settyng forth of these vngracyouse heresyes / a boystyoꝰ cōpany of that vnhappy sect / and fyrste rebelled agaynst an abbot / & after agaynst a bysshop / wherwyth the temporall lordys had good game and sporte and dyssembled the mater / gapynge after the landys of the spyrytualtye / tyll they had almoost played as Esope telleth of the dogge / whyche to snach at the shadow of the chese in the water / let fall and lost y ^e chese that he bare in hys mouthe. For so was yt shortly after that those vplandysh lu­theranys toke so grete boldnes & so by­gā to grow strong / y ^t they set also vppō the temporall lordys. whych had they not set hand therto y ^t soner whyle they loked for other mennys landys / had ben lyke shortely to lese theyre owne. But so quyt they themself / y ^t they slew vppō y ^e poīt of .lxx. thousād lutheranys in one somer / & subdued the remaūt in that parte of Almayn to a ryght my­serable seruytude. How be yt in the meane whyle many myscheuoꝰ dedys they dyd.

¶And yet in dyuerse other partyes of Almayne and swycherlande / thys vn­gracyous secte by the neclygence of y ^e gouernours in grete cytyes / ys so fer­forth grown / that fynally the cōmune peple haue compelled the rulers to fo­low them / whom if they had take hede in tyme / they myght haue ruled & led. ¶And now ys yt to pyteouse a syghte to se the dyspytuous dyspyghtys done there in many placys to god and all good men / wyth y ^t meruelous chaunge frome all face and fasshyon of crysten­dom / in to a very tyrannous persecu­cyon / not onely of all good crysten pe­ple quyck and dede / but also of Cryste hym self. For there shall ye se now the goodly monasteryes destroyed / the placys burned vp / the relygyous peple put out and sent to seke theyr lyuyng / or in many cytyes the placys yet standyng / wyth more dyspyte to god than yf they [Page Cvi] [...] [Page] myche ernest bysynes for to haue some money with her. And whyther he gate [...]ug he or gate naught by that deuyse / he letted not sone after to putt [...] the fa­ther / the mother / the fayre doughter & all the hole howse to new tormentys / to make them tell where eny more money were / were ther eny or none. And some fayled not to take the chylde and bynde yt to a broche / and lay yt to the [...]re to ro [...]/the father and mother lo­kynge on. And th [...]n begyn to comē of [...] pryce for the sparynge of the chylde / askynge fyrst an hundred ducatys / thā fyfty / than fourty / than twenty / than ten / than fyue / than tw [...]yn / whā the sely father had not one lefte / but these tyr [...]untys had all byfore. Than wolde they let the chyld roste to dethe. And yet in derysyon as though they py [...]yed the chylde they wolde saye to the father & the mother / Ahfy fy for shame what mer [...]ayle ys yt though god sende [...] veng [...]ance among you. What vnna­turall people be you that can fynde in your hartys to se your owne chylde ro­sted afore your face / rather thā ye wold out with one ducate to delyuer yt from deth.

¶Thus d [...]uysed these cursed wreches so many dyuers fassyons of exquysyt [...] crueltees / y ^• I wene they haue taught the deuyll new tormentys in hell / that that he neuer knewe byfore / and wyll not fayll to proue hym selfe a good sco­ler / and surely render theym hys lesson whan they come there / where yt ys to be fered that many of them be by this. For sone after that they had in Rome exc [...]rcysed a whyle thys fyerce & cruell tyrāny / and en [...]red in to the holy chyr­chys / spoyled the holy relyques / caste ow [...] the blessyd sacrament / pulled the chalyce frome th [...]u [...]er at mas [...]/slayne prestys in the chyrch / lefte no kynd of cruelte or spyte vndone / but frō howre to howre embruynge theyr handys in blood / & that in such wyse as eny turke or Sarycyne wolde haue pytyed or ab­horted / our lord sent sone after suche a postylence amonge theym that he lest not of them the thyrd parte alyue. For thys purpose I reherse you thys theyr [...] h [...]uy mysche [...]ous delyng / that ye may perceyue by theyre dedys / what good cometh of theyr sect. For as our sauyor saythe ye shall knowe the tree by the frute.

¶The .viii. chapter.

¶The messenger sayth that the m [...] lyce of the men ys not to be imp [...]ted to the sec [...]e / syth that of euery secte som be nought. And the author she­weth that in the lutheranys / y ^e sect [...] selfe ys the cause of the malyce that the men fall to.

SYr quod youre frende in good fayth I neyther cā nor wyll de­fende that secte. But yet reason yt ys to take euery thyng as yt ys. And yf yt be nought / yt hath the les [...]e nede to be made worse. But as for the malycyous cruell dealynge of mē of warre / is not in my mynde to be imputed to the sect [...] of Luther. For ther is no sect so saynt­ly / but they fall to cruelte whan they fall to watre. And of euery secte also be some badde. And therfore y ^e malyce of the m [...]n ys not as me semeth to be imputed vnto y ^e secte. ¶ It ys not q I all one to be sum nought & all nought. But they that fall to this secte / wax [...]ght all the hole mayny. For forth wyth vppon thys sect ones begon / the [...] [...]tockys of suche as were infecte therwyth / [...]ell vnto those myscheuous [Page Cvii] dedys that I byfore rehersed you. And also though mē in warre wax furyou­se and cruel / yet was there neuer none that wente there inso far / & specyally in suche kynde of crueltye as hath ben amonge crysten men in theyre warre alwaye forborne / as ys the dyspytes done to y ^e blessyd sacrament / wherein these bestys were more hote and more busy than wolde the grete Turke / and y ^t bycawse theyre secte is yet in maner worse than hys. More ouer y ^e vnhappy dedys of that secte muste nedys be im­puted to the secte selfe / whyle the doctryne therof techeth and gyueth oc­casyon to theyre euyll dedys. A cry­sten mannys euyll lyuynge can not be imputed to hys crystendome. For hys lyuynge ys contrarye to the doc­tryne and lyuynge of Cryste. But as for the doctryne of thys vnhappy secte and the lyuynge also of the begynners of the same ys suche / as euery wyse man well perceyueth / doth teche and gyue occasyon of theyre euyll dedys. For what good dede shall he studye or laboure to do that byleueth Luther that he hathe no fre wyll of hys own / by whyche he can wyth helpe of grace eyther worke or praye? Shall he not say to hym selfe that he maye syt styll and let god alone?

¶ what harme shall they care to for­bere / y ^• byleue Luther / that god alone wythout theyre wyll worketh all the myschyef that they do them selfe?

¶what shall he care how long he lyue in synne / that byleueth Luther / that he shall after thys lyfe neyther fel [...] well or yll in body nor soule tyll the day of dome? Wyll not he trowe you saye as the Welsheman sayde? Yf thou gyue her that day / by god Dauy wyll haue thy cote to. And this thyng I say but for a sāple. For loke hys opynyons thorow / & ye shall fynd y ^t they playne­ly sette forth all y ^e worlde to wredched lyuynge. If they wold say y ^t we mys [...] constrew theyr wordꝭ / theyr bookꝭ be open / & the wordys playne / & inculked agayne & agayne so often & so openly y ^e men can not erre therin / nor they by eny cloke or colour defende theym.

¶ And bysydys that not only the cōe­naltye of theyr secte shewe the effecte and frute of theyr doctryne by theyre abomynable dealyng as I haue reher­sed you / but also the doctours and the arche heretyques them selfe / well de­clare the holynes of theyr doctryne by theyr own lyuīg. For as they lyue they teche / & as they teche they lyue.

¶The .ix. chapyter.

¶The author sheweth that yt ys a grete token y ^t the worlde ys nere at an ende / whyle we se y ^e peple so far fallē fro god / y ^t they can abyde yt to be cōtent wyth this pestylent fran­tyke sect / which no people crysten or hethen coude haue sufferd afore our days.

IF the worlde were not ne [...]e at an end / & the feruour of deuocyon so sore coled y ^• yt were almost quēched a­mōg crystē people / yt coude neuer haue comē to passe y ^t so many peple shold fall to the folowīg of such a bestly sect. For albe yt y ^t y ^e machometanꝭ beyng a sen­sual & fylthy sect / did in few yerꝭ draw y ^e gret part of y ^e world vnto yt / by y ^e self same ways which now y ^e lutherās vse / that ys to wytte voluptuouse lyuynge and vyolence / offeryng delyte vnto the recey [...]ours and deth to the re [...]usours [...] [Page] yet was there byfore thys abomynable secte neuer eny secte so shamelesse / that wolde styll [...]uowe theym selfe for crysten folke grauntynge the scryp­ture to be trewe / and therwythall so enemyously blaspheme and oppugne y ^e chyrch of Cryst / y ^e sacramētis of Cryst / the sayntis of Cryst / y ^e crosse of Cryst / the mother of Cryst / & the holy body of Cryst / so shamfully lyuyng and open­ly profes [...]ynge a bestyall maner of ly­uynge / clene contrary to the doctryne and lyfe of Cryste. Cha [...]ryanys / the Pelagyanys / the Manytheis / and so forthe euery sorte of heretyques / by­gan of suche as thoughe they wycked­ly erred in substauncyall artycles of the faythe / yet was theyre outwarde fassyon of lyuynge so honest and spy­rytuall in apparence / that mē thought theym selfe bounden the better to by­leue theyre doctryne as crysten / for som spyrytual forme & fassyon of theyr crystē lyuynge. But now y ^e chyefteyns of these execrable heresyes / both teche and vse more sensuall and lycencyous lyuīg / thā euer dyd Machomet. whych though he lycence mē to many wyuis / yet he neuer taught nor suffred his folk to breke theyr chastyce promysed onys and solempnely dedycate to god. wher as L [...]ther not onely techeth monkys [...]re [...]ys and nonnes to ma [...]yage / but also beynge a fre [...]e hathe maryed a [...]unne hym selfe / and wyth her lyueth vnder the name of wedlocke in open incestuouse lechery wythowte care or shame / bycawse he hath procured and gotē so many shamefull and shameles companyons.

¶who coud haue byddē to loke eny mā in y ^e face y ^t shold haue don thus in saynt Hieromes & saint Austyns days? what speke we of saynt Hierom & saynt An­steyn? who durst haue don it for sh [...]e eny tyme synnys Cry [...]ys byrthe vn­tyll our wreched days? Or who syn­nys Adams tyme amonge the chosen people of god? What speke we of the chosen people of god? the very Pay­nyms and Paganys ydolaters kepte theyr chastyte vowed onys to theyr false goddys / and rather ch [...]se to cut of the mēbres with whych they might breke yt than to stande in the ieopardy to breke yt. And in Rome of olde ty­me when they were Paganis / yf eny vestal vyrgyn (for so called they theyr nunnes) were vyola [...]ed / they not only bette the man to deth wyth roddys in the market place / and beryed the wo­man quycke / but also rekened it for a wonderfull monster / and a token of wrath and indygnacyon of theyr god­dys towarde theyr cyte and empyre / puttynge theruppon them selfe in de­uoure wyth open processyons and pra­yers and sacrefyce / to procure the re­couerye of theyr goddys fauour. Ys it not than nowe a wonderouse case to se / synnys that the chastyte promysed [...]nys to god / and also to the false ydols vnder the name of god / hath alwaye ben syth the worlde bygan / amonge crysten and hethen so hyghly estemed / that the brekers therof haue alwaye ben by the comm [...]ne consent of the hole worlde / as a thynge taught by god vnto good men / and by nature to all men taken / reputed / and punys­shed as abomynable wycked wred­ches / is yt not I saye nowe a wonde­rouse thyng to se that in y ^e flok of crystē ple / which by Cryst hymself / by all his [Page Cviii] apostles / by all hys holy martyrs / confessours / and doctours / by all hys hole chyrch / all y ^• hole tyme of these .xv.C. yerꝭ passed / chastyte hath bē more hyghly praysed & estymed than euer yt was of eny other sect syth the world bygan / we shold se now a lewde frere so bolde & so shameles to mary a nunne & byde therby / and be taken styll for a crysten man / and ouer that for a man mete to be the begynner of a new sect / whome eny honest man sholde vouche [...]fe to folowe? Yf our lorde god / whose wys­dom ys infynyte / sholde haue syt and studyed to deuyse a waye / wherby he myght caste in our face the confusyon of our foly / how myght he haue foun­den a more effectuall / openly to shewe vs the shame of our synne / than to suf­fer vs that call our self crysten folk / to se suche a rable sprynge vp amonge vs / as professynge the fayth and relygyon of Cryste / let not to set at nowght all the doctours of Crystys chyrche / and lene to the only authoryte of frere tuk and mad Maryon?

¶The .x. chapyter.

¶The author in [...]yeth against this detestable artycle of thys vngracyꝰ secte / wherby they take awaye the lybertye of mannys fre wyll / and ascrybe all thynge to desteny.

SUrely as I say thys worlde ys eyther after the wordys of saynt Iohn̄ / Cotuspositus in malig­no / all set in malyce / y ^t we be so prone wyttyngly to take so wronge a way / or ellys ys yt in a meruelouse blynd­nesse / yf we can neyther perceyue by y ^e nowghty lyuynge of the persons that theyr secte ys nowght / nor can percey­ [...]e by theyre doctryne that theyr secte must make theyr persōs nought / theyr heresyes beynge suche as ye haue herd. wherby euery mā that eny fayth hath and eny maner knowledge of crysten bylyefe / may well and surely perceyu [...] that Luther and all hys of sprynge / [...] all those that fauour and set forth hys secte / be very lymmes of the deuyll / & open enemyes to the faythe of Cryste. And not onely to the fayth & manhode of our sauyour Cryst / but also agaynst the holy ghoost & the father hym selfe / and vtterly agaynst all goodnes of the godhede / as those that wrechedly laye all the wyght and blame of our synne to the necessyte and constraynt of god­dys ordonaunce / affyrmynge that we do no synne of oure selfe by eny power of our owne wyll / but by the compul­syō and handy worke of god / And that we do not the synne our selfe / but that god dothe the synne in vs hym selfe. And thus these wredched heretyques wyth this blasphemouse heresye alone / lay more vylaynouse rebuke to y ^• grete maieste of god / than euer eny one ry­baulde layed vnto a nother. For who was there euer that layde vnto a no­ther all the par [...]yculere euyll dedys of eny one other man / where these [...]ybawldys laye to the charge and blame of god / all the malyce and mys­chyefe frome the fyrst fawt to the last / that euer was wrought or thought by man woman or d [...]uyll? And by thys gyue they wredches grete boldnesse to folow theyr fowle affeccyons / as thyngys after theyre opynyon more veryly wroughte in theym by god / than the beste myndys be in good menne. And that yt were therfore in vayn for them to resyste theyre synnefull appetytys. And yf they shall be dampned / yet they say yt shal be long or they fele yt. [Page] For Luther sayth y ^t al soules shal slepe & fele neyther good nor bad after thys lyfe tyl domes day [...] and thā they y ^t [...]hal be dampned / shalbe dampned he sayth for no deseruīg of theyr own dedꝭ / but for such euyl dedꝭ as god only forced & cōstreyned thē vnto & wrought in thē hym self / vsyng thē ī all those euyl dedꝭ but as a dede instrument / as a mā he­weth w ^t an hachet. And y ^e god shal dāpne all y ^• shalbe dāpned for his own dedꝭ only which hī self shal haue done ī thē / & fynally for hys only plesure bycause yt lyked hym not to chose thē as he dyd his chosē peple. whō they say y ^t he chose in such wyse byfore y ^e bygynnyng of y ^e world / that they can neuer synne.

¶The .xi. chapyter.

¶The messēger sayth y ^t how so euer Luther & hys folowers in Almayn byleue / yet he cā not thīk y ^t suche as be Lutheranis in England / of whō sū he sayth haue semed good & honest be so mad & vnhappy to byleue y ^t all hāgeth vpō desteny. wheruppō y ^• au­thor sheweth y ^• cōtrary / and y ^t they be noughte in dede seme they neuer so good. & for profe y ^t howe so euer they colour theyr wordꝭ they meane y ^t all depēdeth vppō only desteny / he reherseth a certayn dyspycyō had w ^t an heretyque detected to the bysshop & examyned / the author beynge present / where the heretyque beyng lerned & a prechoure / made many shyf [...]ys to make yt seme that in hys euyll wor­dys he ment but well.

WHā your frēd had herd all thys he sayd at last y ^t albeit y ^• wordꝭ of Luther semed very playn toward y ^e afferming of such opynyōs / yet were y ^e thyngis so far out of all frame / y ^t yt gaue hym occasyō to dowt le [...]t Luther mēt not al thīg so euyl as his w [...] dys seme to way to. And yf he so ment hym self w ^t other of his flok & affynyte in Almayne / yet thought your frend y ^t such as here fauour & folow hys sect in England / of whō sū seme ryght honest & far frō hys maner of lyuīg / do not so take hys wordys nor vnderstāde thē y ^• way / but cōstrue thē to sū better sence. ¶Forsoth q I they cā not but kno his opē lyuīg in lechery w ^t his lewd lēmā y ^• nūne. And y ^t all y ^e captains of y ^e sort / sū late cartusiēces / sū obseruaūtys / sū of other relygiōs / & all now apostatas & wedded / lyue ī lyke maner & teche o­ther the same. And by thys cā they not dout but y ^• theyr doctryne is nought / except thē self alow y ^t way for good. now as for theyr own goodnes ye fynd few y ^t fal to y ^e sect / but y ^• sone after they fal in to y ^e cōtempt of prayer & fastyng & of all good workys vnder y ^e name of cere­monyes. And yf eny do other wyse / yt ys for some purpose for the whyle to blynde the people and kepe theymselfe in fauoure / whyle they may fynde the tyme by leysoure to fassyon and frame them better to theyr purpose / whych in the begynnyng yf they shewed thē self playnely / coulde happely not abyde to here thē. Of whych theyr demeanure / & that in these heresyes they mene here no better thā Luther doth hym self / I haue had good experyēs / and amōg many other thyngꝭ thys y ^t I shall shewe you. It happed me to be lately present / where as one in y ^e Lutheranꝭ bokis depely lerned [...]& of trouth neyther in holy scryptur nor in secular lytterature vn­lerned / as I ꝑceiue not only by y ^e testy­mony of other men and by y ^e degrees y ^t he hadde taken in the vnyuersyte / but [...]o by hys wordys and his wrytyng / [Page Cix] was in the presence of ryghte honora­ble vertuous and very cunnyng persō [...] e [...]ned. For he was at that tyme in warde for heresye / bycause that b [...]yng lerned and vsynge to here confessyons / & amōg many folk met [...]ly wel alowed in prechīg / & therby growyng in good [...]pynyō & fauour of many good sympl [...] people / abused all these o [...]ē & apparent good thyngꝭ / to y ^e secrete sowyng & [...] ­tīg forth of Luthers heresyes. And had for y ^e entēt not only taught & writē & c [...] uertly corrupted dyuers light & lewd ꝑsōs / but also had bought grete nōber of y ^e [...]okꝭ of Luther / & wyclyffe / Hu [...]/& zuynglyꝰ / & such other heretyques / [...] of many one sorte dyuers bokꝭ / to be delyuered [...] he coud fynd occasiō vnto yōg scolers of the vnyuersytees / such as he thoght of iouth & lightnes most lykely to be sone corrupted. This mā I say be­yng examined & lōg kepīg himself close frō dysclosyng of y ^e mater / & more redy to go strayte to y ^e deuyll w ^t [...]ēg & false forswerīg / thā to be aknowē of his e­uyll demeanure & cōfesse y ^e tr [...]th / at y ^e last ꝑceyuīg y ^• maters ꝑtely by y ^e cōfes­syō of other folk / ꝑtely by his own hād wri [...]īg / so ferforth comē to light y ^t they coud ī no wyse be cloked / thā [...]gā he sū what playnely to cōfesse & declare / not only what he had d [...]n for y ^e settīg forth of y ^• secte / but also ꝑtely what opyniōs he & other his felows had holdē & were of. Settīg neuer y ^e les [...] all y ^e colours he coud to make yt seme / y ^e though y ^e w [...] ­dys whyche they spa [...]e or wrote [...] straunge & contrarye to rygh [...] byle [...]/yet the [...]fect of theyr meaning was not mych dyscrepant from the trew fayth [...] of Crystys chyrch. How be yt wh [...] ̄ he was reasoned w ^tal / & saw y ^t he coud [...] [...] so shyfte yt of / but y ^t for eny colour [...] [...] could fynde one parte of hys tale euer contraryed a nother / at last he shewed playnly theyr opyniōs / & layd forth as in parte for his own excuse as thyngꝭ enducyng him therto / all y ^e textꝭ of scrypture / by whych they ptēd to ꝑue theyr [...]pynyōs true. Amōg whyche opynyōs whā he came to thopynyō / by wh [...]che they holde y ^e only fayth alone ys suffy­cyent w ^toute good workys / vnto y ^t he sayd in y ^e begīnīg y ^t they mēt nothyng ellys therby / but y ^e men shold put theyr fayth ī goddꝭ [...]ses & hope to be saued therby & y ^t they shold not put theyr trust ī theyr workꝭ / for y ^t wold turne thē t [...] pryde. ¶Thē was yt āswerd hym y ^t he & hys felows could not mene so. For yf they dyd / thou could they not blame y ^e chyrch as they do / makyng as though y ^e chirch had al this while hid y ^e t [...]e faith frō y ^e peple / & y ^t thē self were now shent for pchyng y ^e [...]spell truely. For yf this were theyr menīg / they thē mēt none other thē euery comē pchor of y ^e chyrch hath alway pched bifore luthers dais. For what pchor hath not told y ^e peple y ^t ꝑable of y ^e pore publycā ashamed of his l [...]nys / & y ^e proud pharysey bostīg of hys vertues? who hath not bod thē do wel [...] And albe yt y ^e god wyll reward thē for theyr good dedꝭ / yet put not theyr trust ī thē self & theyr own dedꝭ / but ī god­dys goodnes [...] who hath not told thē y ^t they shold as god biddeth thē ī y ^e gospel y ^t whā they haue done all y ^t they tā do / yet say to thē self we be but vnꝓsitable seruaū [...]/we haue done but our dutre. These thīgꝭ & such other y ^• chyrch hath alway taught / agaynst y ^e puttyng of a proud trust in our own dedꝭ / bycause y ^t we cā not alway surely iudge our own dedꝭ for y ^e blīd fauor y ^t we [...]ere toward our self & therfore was it sayd to him / [Page] [...]f ye moue but thus as the chyrch m [...] ­ [...]eth / than wolde ye preche but as the chyrche precheth / and not blaspheme y ^e chyrch in your sermons / as thoughe y ^• [...]yg [...]n true prechynge of the gospell / & that the chyrche had hytherto preched false. And also ye must nedys mene sū other thyng. For Luther whose sect ye confesse that ye haue lened vnto / wry­teth in thys mater [...]a [...]re otherwyse. For he sayth playne that faythe alone wythout eny good workys doth iusty­fye vs and suffyseth for our saluacyon. Then answered he that there in they ment none other / but that fayth ys suffycyent alone / yf one happen after he haue fayth and baptysme to dye e [...]e he haue tyme to do eny [...] good workꝭ. Thā was yt sayde vnto hym / yf they sholde [...]che thys opynyon vnder suche wor­ [...]ys for a great secrets mystery newe foūde oute / and therby blame y ^e chyrch for mys [...]hy [...]ge the people / as though y ^e chyrch taught theym to put lesse trust in god and in fayth of Cryste thā they shold do / & induced theym to put theyr trust in them self and theyr own good workys / they vsed theym selfe merue­lously / consyderynge that yf they inēt none other / the chyrche and they ment all one thynge. But they cowlde not mene so. For than why shold they bla­me the chyrche / that sayth not the con­trary. And also yf they ment none o­ther thynge / few wordys wolde serue them. They shold not nede so often to speke therof. For than that tale can do lytell good here or [...]ny where ellys wher folk be crystened ī theyr cradels. For eyther they dye ere they haue time to do good workys / and than they be to yonge to here that sermon / or ellys they ly [...]e & haue tyme to do good wor­kys. And than that sermon were not holsome for theym / that good workys nede not but onely fayth ys suffycyent wythout theym. And when the peple take it as ye speke yt / that fayth alone ys ynough for theym / than ys yt now a bare glose for you to saye that ye m [...] ̄t not so / but onely that fayth alone had bē ynough for them / yf they had dyed in theyr swadlyng clowtis. ¶To this he sayd that they thought also y ^t fayth alone dothe iustyfye a man wythoute [...]ny good workys / not onely in chyldr [...] but also in euery age. For whan so euer a man that hath ben a synner doth re­pent and amend in hys mynde wyth a full faythe in the promysys of god / he ys iustyfyed ere euer he do eny of these good workys / almoyse / fasting / or eny suc [...]e other. For he can not worke well tyll he be good all redy. For as Cryste saythe / Arbor mala non potest bonum [...]ructū [...]acere / an euyll tre can not brīg forth good fruyte / and therfore sythe good workys be good frute / an euyll man can not worke theym. Wherby yt appereth well that the man ys iusty­fyed byfore by hys fayth alone [...]oute the workys / and thē out of that fayth groweth the good frute of good wor­kys. But faythe dyd iustyfye the man byfore / and the man was as good by­fore the workys as he is after. For his fayth dyd iustyfye hym. And as for the workys be but thyngys that the fayth in the man or the mā by the fayth bryngeth forth / as the tree bryngeth forth hys seuys and can do none other / faith beyng in y ^e harte. ¶Then was yt sayd vnto hym that in thys tale he semed to make the good workys to be mych lyke a shadow that the body maketh of ne­ [...] whyle yt standeth in the senne [Page Cx] and ys neuer the better therfore. And then was yt asked hym whyther a [...] must not yf hys fayth shall serue hym [...] charyte therwyth and a purpose to do good workꝭ. [...]s quod he that he must yf he haue age and dyscrecyō the [...] to. Then was yt answered hym that then was all goone that hym selfe had [...]ayd byfore. For than dyd not faythe alone iustyfye the mā / but the charyte wy [...]h the purpose of good workꝭ / m [...] by his owne grauntyng nedys go ther wyth / or ellys wold hys fayth iustyfye nothyng at all. For yf he had neuer so grete [...] fayth and neuer so sure a bylyef in goddys promyses / yet yf he purposed to do no good dedys therwyth / but peraduenture harme / he shold haue lytell iustyfycacyon by hys [...]nly fayth. And therfore yt was false that he had sayd a man ys neuer y ^e better for hys good workys / whyl [...] hys good workys be so taken and rep [...]ted wyth god / that the purpose of them yet vndone so farforth worketh to hys iustyfycacyon / that w ^t out that purpose he cā not be iustyfyed. And yt ys also false that he sayd that [...]aythe alone iustyfyeth a man / wh [...]n hym selfe ys fayn to gra [...] ̄t that fayth wythout charyte and purpose of good workꝭ cā not iustifie / which is a [...] with to say as fayth alone can not iustyfye. ¶To thys he answered y ^t he had sayd that fayth onely was suffycyent / and that fayth alone doth iustyfye / bycause that yf a man had fayth / yt coulde not be but y ^t he sholde worke good workꝭ. For fayth he sayd could ne [...]er be ydel / as the fyre must nedys burne and gy­ [...]e hete. And therfore as a man maye saye the fyre ys ynough to burn [...] a tre though he speke nothynge of hete / and yet the fyre doth yt by h [...]te / and a [...] may say y ^e fyre maketh me se by nyght and yet the fyre dothe yt but by the lyght / so may a mā say that fayth doth saue vs / though fayth do ye wythoute hope and charyte and other vertuouse workys / bycawse that faythe hath al­way good hope and charyte wyth yt / & can not but worke well / no more than the fyre can be wythout h [...]te & lyghte and burne all combustyble thyngys y ^t it may tow [...]he and [...]ary with. ¶Then was yt sayde vnto hym that albeyt a man might so speke by y ^e fyre / yet wold not thys thynge serue theyr sect [...]. For he that sayth fyre alone ys ynough to burne / wolde not say nay to hym that wold say the fyre could not burne but yf had hete. But your secte scorneth & [...]lameth the chyrch / bycause the chyrch saythe that fayth wyll not suffyse but y [...] yt haue charyte and good workys. For ellys ye had no cause in thys mater to preche contrary to the chyrch. More [...]uer where ye say that fayth hath al­waye good hope wyth yt / that semeth not alway trewe. For he that hopeth y ^t by fayth alone he shall be saued wyth out eny good workys / as Lutheranys do byleue in dede / he hath an euyl hope and a damp [...]ble. Now where ye saye that ye pr [...]ch [...]/fayth alone to be suffy­cyent bycawse that fayth hath alwaye charyte ioyned therwyth / yf thys were trewe / why preche ye not as well that charyte alone ys suffycyent / whyche wer [...] as nere the trouth as the t [...]cher. Now where ye make all the grounde vppon thys / that fayth hath euer cha­ryte therwyth / and that yt can not be but that charyte whyche ys in dede y ^e thynge that specyally bryngeth forth good workys mych more properly thā fayth / for [...]th bryngeth theym forth [Page] by charyte whē it is ioyned therwyth / as the apostle sayth / Fides que per di­lectionem operatur / fayth worketh by cheryte where ye saye yt can not be but y ^t thys charyte ys alwaye ioyned vnto fayth / thys grounde wyll fayle you / & make all your foundacyon false / & all your byldyng fall. Thapostell Poule ī many placis of hys epystles sayth the contrary therof. For he sayth that yf a man haue so grete fayth that he myght by the force of hys fayth worke myra­cles / and also such feruent affeccyon to y ^• fayth y ^• he w [...]ld gyue his body to the fyre for the defēce therof / yet yf he lac­ked chary [...]e / all hys fayth suffysed not ¶In good fayth quod your frende he was well and ꝓprely answered. But yet me thīketh he myght haue replyed a lytell agayne to tho [...]e wordys of saīt Poule / and myght haue auoyded them well wyth other wordys of his owne. For where he wryteth also to y ^• Gala­thes / y ^• yf any angell wold com downe from heuen & preche a contrary gospell to that that he had preched all redy / acoursed shold he be and not to be byle­ued / he dyd not in these wordys a [...]fer­me nor entend therby y ^t euer yt shold so be / or coulde so be / that any angell so shold do in dede. For he knew ryght well yt was impossyble that eny angel of heuen shold come downe and tell a false tale. But he sayd yt onely by a maner of speking which is among lerned men called yperbole / for the more ve­hemēt expressyng of a mater [...] no thyng menyng ellys but y ^• the gospell whych he had preched / was the playne sure & vndowtable trouth / against which no man were to be byleued. And in lyke wyse me thynketh the man that ye spe­ [...]e of myght haue sayd / y ^• though saynt Poule sayd / If he had so grete fayth y ^• [...]e were able therby to remoue hyllys / excepte he had cheryte therw ^t yt wolde not serue hym he ment therby no more but to shew y ^• grete nede that men haue to cheryte / and not that yt were possy­ble that faith could be without cherite / no more than he ment that an aungell may come down from heuen to preche a false fayth. And therfore myghte yt yet stande ryghte well wyth all those wordys of saynt Powle / that faythe can not fayle of saluacyon / syth yt can not fayll of charyte. And of trouth m [...] semeth as that man sayd that fayt [...] can not be ydle but yt must nedys wor­ke well. ¶Forsoth quod I the mā lac­ked you there / for he founde not that glose. Whych though he had / yet wold yt not haue serued hym. For bytwene those two placys of saynt Powle y [...] there grete dyfference. For in the t [...]n [...] ys there an impossyble excesse and yper­bole / in the tother is there not so. For aūgels of heuen neuer can come down and teche a false fayth. But fayth may be s [...]uered from charyte. And in y ^• tone place he none other thynge entended than as ye saye to shewe by that great excedynge word / the vndowted trouth of the fayth whyche hym self had pre­ched. But in the tother place hys spe­cy [...]ll purpose was to teche the Gala­th [...]s / that they sholde neyther trust y ^• eny gyft of nature / or gyft of god abo­ue nature / or eny maner vertue / al­m [...]yse dede / fayth / or other / were able to stande them in [...]de wytho [...]t chery­te. And thys dyd he specyally / for that he wold that no man shold be in suche errour / as to reken that eyther excellēt gyfte of eunnynge / great labour spent in prechyng / great almoyse spent [...] on [Page Cxi] pore people / or a very feruent fayth / myght suffyse to theyr saluacyō yf che­ryte lakked. Agaynst whych errour he doth in such wyse exhorte theym to che­ryte / in avoydyng the rankour / which by occasyon of scysmes dyd aryse amōg th [...] that [...]e shewed theym precysely / y ^• wythout cheryte they loste clerely the meryte of all theyr other vertues and gracys y ^• god had geuē theym / cūnyng / almoyse dede / fayth / and all / puttyng thexample by hys owne selfe / whyche though he were a chosen seruaunt and apostle / yet y [...] he were ī langage egall wythall y ^• hole world and w ^t angellys to / and had all y ^• cūnyng that possyble could be had / and the spirite of all pro­phecye therwyth / & wold geue all hys goodys in almoyse / and had also all the full fayth so grete that yt su [...]yced to worke wundres wyth / and so feruent that he wold abyde to be burned for yt / yet yf he laked cheryte / all thys wolde not serue hym. So that ye may se now that your glose wold not haue releued this mā. For though none angell could come downe and teche an vntrouth / & therfore the wordys y ^t ye alledge can be none otherwyse takē than as ye say by way of exce [...] and yperbole / to declare the vehemence of hys mynde in the mater of fayth which he than spake of / yet this other place of saynt poule that was layed agaynst that heretyque that I speke of / as grete and vehement as the wordys be / yet do they playnely proue that the apostle sheweth / y ^• fayth may be wythout cheryte / & that doth so grete that yt may suffyse to y ^• doyng of grete wonders / and so feruent that yt may suffre a paynful deth / and yet for f [...]wte of charyte not suffycyēt to s [...] ­cyon / and that this may happe as wel in fayth as in almoyse dede / whyche y ^• appostle putteth in the same case. And therfore where that man sayde and ye seme to conferme the same / that fayth can not be ydle frō y ^• workyng of good workys / the appostle to shew the con­trary / and that all y ^• workys of faythe though they seme neuer so good / be yet nought in dede yf they be not wrought w ^t charite / cōmēdith only y ^e faith y ^t workyth by charyte / sygnyfyēg y ^t all other workꝭ of fayth be not auaylable. And surely faythe alone wythowt charyte may be bysydys thys not only ydle w ^t oute the busynes of good workys / but also for lacke of good workys yt may be vtterly dede. And therfore as it was there obiected vnto that man / y ^• holy appostle Iames sayth to theym that teken fayth suffycyēt for saluacyō wyth oute good workys / that they be worse thā deuyls. For he sayth y ^t y ^• deuyls do byleue / & tremble for y ^• fere of god. And y ^• men whych by y ^e hope & boldnesse of theyr byleue thynke theyr fayth w ^tout good workꝭ suffycyent / be worse than deuyls / bycawse they stande owt of drede of god / that mana [...]eth vnto thē the paynes of hell except they do good workys. Wythout whyche saynt Ia­mys for a fynall conclusyon sayth that the fayth ys but dede.

¶After suche resonyng the man sayd y ^t he and thother Lutheranys whā they spake that only fayth was suffycyent / they meane not of a dede fayth that ys wythoute charyte and good workys / but a very fayth that ys quycke & worketh by charyte / and that such faythe he thought was suffycyēt. ¶But than was yt answered / that neyther they nor he coulde meane so. For how could they call that thynge fayth onely that [Page] ys ioyned with charyte and good wor­kys? Or howe can yt stande that they meane that faythe whyche by charyte worketh good workys / wh [...]n they say that yt ys suffycyent alone wythoute good workys / and that yt ys as Lu­ther sayth grete synne and sacrylege to to go about to please god by good workys / and not by only fayth? How coud they say that onely fayth suffyseth / yf they shold meane that wythout chary­te and good workys no fayth suffyseth For yt were a mad thynge to saye that faythe alone suffyseth wythoute good workys / & therw ^t to say y ^• w ^t out good workys fayth suffyseth nothyng. And so was yt sayd vnto hym that therfore though they colour theyr maters whā they be examyned / yet it can not be but that he and other Lutheranys where they sowe theyr heresye / meane playn­ly as they speke / y ^• folke nede no more but byleue / and than how so euer they lyue shal make no mater. For no thing as Luther saythe can dampne a crysten man / saue onely lacke of byle­ue [...] For all other synnys yf byleue and fayth stand fast / be quyte absorpte and supped vp he sayth in that fayth.

¶Whan thys man was wyth such re­sonyng and myche better than I do or can reherse you somwhat sore preced vppon / than brought he forth a nother glose and sayd / that they meaned not but that fayth yf yt shold suffyse for saluacyon / must nedys haue wyth yt cha­ryte and good workꝭ / or ellys yt were no very fayth / as a dede man ys no very man. How be it he sayd that though yt be no thyng wythout good workꝭ / yet whan yt ys ioyned wyth good workys / all the meryt cometh of our fayth onely / and no part therof for our wor­kys. So that god gyueth vs heue [...] for our fayth onely / and nothynge for ou [...] workys. For though he gyue it not for our faythe yf we lacke good workys / yet yf we haue both / he regardeth not in hys rewarde our workys eny thyng but onely our fayth. And he sayde that for thys cause they say that only fayth causeth our saluacyon.

¶To thys yt was answered that yf thys opynion were true / yet yt well appered that thys ys not the thynge that they mene. For the wordys of Luther and Pomerane and all the archerety­ques of that secte be very playne. For they saye y ^t yt ys sacrylege to go about to please god by eny good workys but fayth onely. And than why shold good workꝭ be ioyned to fayth / or why shold god exacte good workys of vs? wherof shold they serue / yf they be nothyng pl [...] saunt to god? And whan Luther sayth that nothyng can dampne eny crysten man but onely lacke of byleue / he she­weth manyfestely that we not onely nede no good workys wyth our fayth / but also that so we haue faythe / none euyll workys can hurte vs. And so he meaneth playnely that fayth onely w ^t out eny good workys ioyned therto / and also wyth all kynd of euyll wor­kys ioyned therto / ys suffycyēt to saue vs. And therfore yf ye be of hys secte (was yt sayde to the man) ye can not auoyde but that thys ys your very doctryne how so euer ye colour yt.

¶Than was yt ferther asked hym yf theyr meanyng shold be such as he had sayd / what sholde moue hym and other his felowes so to thynke / that in fayth and good workys ioyned together / the good workys were nothinge worthe / but that all the meryte shold be in the [Page Cxii] fayth / and all the thanke and reward shold be gyuen to the fayth / and ryght [...]ought to the good workys.

¶ [...] he answered that many textys of scrypture enduced theym ther vnto / & specyal textys of saynt Poule / Fides iustificat / fayth iustyfyeth. And Credidu Abraam deo / et reputatū est [...]i ad iusticiam / Abraam byleued god / & yt was accompted in hym for iustyce. Si ex operibus / habet quidem gloriam sed non apud deum / yf he were iusty­fyed by the workys / thā had he glory / but not w ^t god. Si ex operibus / Cristꝰ pro nobis gratis mortuus est. If we be iustyfyed by workꝭ / thā dyd Cryst dye for vs for naught. Gratꝭ redēpti estis / ye be redemed frely. And therby maye we se that oure workys were parte of the cause. And yet specyally these wor­dys of our sauyour Cryst he sayd mych moued them to be of that mynd / wher he sayth Qui crediderit et baptisatus fuerit saluus erit / He that byleueth & ys baptysed shall be saued. where Cryst requyryth nothyng but only fayth.

¶By all these textys he sayd y ^• playnly appered that all our saluacyon cam of faythe / as Abraam was iustyfyed by fayth and not by his workꝭ. And that yf our good workys shold be the cause of our saluacyon / than as saynt Poule sayth Cryst dyed for nought. For he neded not to dye for vs / yf our own wor­kys myght saue vs. Nor we were not redemed frely / yf we shold redeme our selfe wyth the payement of oure owne workys.

¶To this was yt answered that those textys and all other alledged for that purpose / sygnyfye none other but that after the faythe of Cryst brought in to the worlde by the incarnacyon & passyō of our blessyd sauyour / men are no le [...] ­ged boundē to the obseruaunce of Moyses law. Nor that all the law of Moy­ses / nor all the good workys of man / were not able to saue one man of them selfe / nor wythout fayth / and y ^• Cryst frely redemed vs. For neyther had he or euer shall haue eny reward of vs for the bytter paynes taken in hys blyssed passyon for vs. Nor neuer deserued we vnto hym that he sholde so mych do for vs. Nor the fyrste faythe / nor the pre­chynge therof / nor the fyrst iustyfyca­cyon of man therby / nor the sacrament and fruyte of our baptysme / was not gyuen to the world for eny good wor­kys that euer the world had wrought / but only of goddys mere lybetal good­nes. But yet there ys neuer a texte of them nor eny other in all scrypture so mēt / that after the baptysme the fayth onely shall saue vs wythout good wor­kys / yf we lyue and haue reason to do thē. For though it be sayd by the mouth of our sauyour / he that byleueth shall be saued / where he nothyng speketh of eny good workꝭ / yet meaneth he not that he that byleueth shall be saued / wythout good workys yf he lyue to do theym. For ellys why sholde ye not as well say that men shall be saued for kepynge of the commaūdementys wyth out fayth / syth Cryst sayth yf y ^• wyl [...]e entred in to the kyngdome of heuē ke­pe the commaundementys. And sayth also / do that and thou shalt haue lyfe. At whyche tyme he spake no worde of eny fayth. He sayth also in holy scryp­ture / Date clemosinā et omnia mūda sunt vobis / Gyue almoyse / and all ys clene in you. whyche wordys yf men sholde as largely conster for the pre­ [...]mynence of almoyse dede / as ye th [...] [Page] are of Luthers secte constre the textys that speke of fayth / they myght take a false glose and colour to say / that with out faythe or penaunce eyther / or eny other vertue / almoyse dede alone suf­fyseth for saluacyon / how wredehedly so euer we lede our lyfe bysyde. But yf we sholde so saye of almoyse dede / we shold say wrong / as ye do whan ye say so of fayth. For lyke wyse as yt ys vn­derstand that fayth must nedys go w ^t good workys yf they shall be frutfull / though yt be not spokē of in those te [...]tꝭ that speke of good workys / so is yt vn­derstanden that in theym whych after baptysme haue tyme & reason to worke well / good workys must walke wyth fayth and sorow at harte for fawte of good workys / yf the fayth shall aught auayle them. For yf both good workꝭ and fynall repentaunce of the lacke of good workꝭ do fayle vs / hauyng tyme and reason to them / we be lyke to fare myche the worse for our fayth. And y ^t thys ys thus / we maye well know by the textys of holy scrypture yf we set theym together / and take not one text for our part and set a nother at nought. ¶To thys answered he that albe yt these textys set togeth [...]r / do proue that fayth alone doth not suffyse wythoute good workys (whych thynge he sayde that hym selfe denyed not) yet he sayd y ^t none of those textys proue eny thyng the contrary / but that whan fayth and good workys be ioyned together / all y ^• meryte cometh yet of our fayth onely and nothyng of our workys.

¶ Whervnto he was answered that though it so were in dede that no textꝭ of scrypture proued the contrary / yet syth there ys none that sayth so / and y ^• hole chyrch sayth and byleueth the cō ­trary / what reason haue ye to say so / & to gyue the hole meryte vnto fayth / & no parte of the rewarde to good wor­kys? And now haue ye myche les [...] re­son so to do / whan the playne wordys of holy wryt be openly to the contra­ry. For dyd not god saye to Cain / Yf thou do well thou shalte haue well? Sayth not Cryst of theym [...] that dothe almoyse / A good measure shaken toge­ther / heped and runnynge ouer / shall they gyue in to your bosome? Doth not our lorde shewe that in the day of iuge­ment he wyl gyue the kyngdom of he­uen to theym that haue done almoyse / in mete / drynke / clothe / and lodgyng / bycawse of theyr charyte vsed in those dedys? whyche dedys thoughe he wyll not rewarde wyth heuen excepte fayth went w ^t thē / yet yf they were wrought in fayth / he promyseth to reward those workys and not theyr fayth only / and that so ferforth that yt appereth by the wordys of oure sauyoure in the same placys / and by hys wordys whyche he sayd he wold in the daye of iudgement speke to thē that had by fayth wrought wonders in hys name wythout good workys and cheryte / whome he wolde thā bydde / walke workers of wycked­nesse / and tell theym that he knoweth theym not. By these thyngys I saye yt well appereth / that be a mānys fayth neuer so great / yet yf those good wor­kys fayle hym / hys fayth shall fayle of heuen.

¶Than sayd he yet agayne that fayth can neuer be wythoute go [...]d workys. But and yf a mā haue fayth / his fayth shal not fayle nor ceace to bryng forth the fruyte of good workys / as the tre bryngeth forth hys leuys.

¶ Than was yt answered hym y ^• he [Page Cxiii] [...] [Page] [...] [Page Cxiiii] was than all the labour and the payne that thappostles toke in prechynge all naught & synfull? all the tormentys y ^t the martyrs suffered in theyr passyon all together synne? all y ^e dedys of ch [...] ­ryte that Cryst shall as hym self sayth reward wyth euerlastynge lyfe [...]t the g [...]nerall i [...]dgement be they syn̄ all to gether? Saynt Poule rekened it other wyse. For he sayd boldely of hym self / bonū certamen certaui / cursū consum­m [...]i / et nūc superest michi corona iu­ [...]itie / I haue laboured & stryuen a good stryfe / I haue perfourmed my course / now lac [...]eth me no more for me but y ^• crowne of iustyce.

¶ Therunto he answered that saynt Powle wolde not saye that o [...] dedys were suff [...]cyent of theym self / but that all oure suffycyency [...] ys of god. Wher­vnto yt was answered that thys was lytell to the mater. For no more ys our fayth suffycyent of yt selfe / but the suffycyency therof ys also of god / in [...]hat our lord wyth our endeuo [...]r gyueth vs grace to byleue / and in that yt ly [...]eth our lorde of hys goodnes so hyghly to reward yt. For surely as it is very true that saynt Poule sayth th [...]/Non sūt condigne passiones h [...]i [...] vite ad fu­turam gloriam que reuelabitur in no­ [...]is / all that euer we can suffer in thys worlde / ys not worthy the glory to come that shall be shewed in vs (For what thyng cowld a sely wr [...]ched creature do or suffer for god in the brefe ty­me of thys short lyfe / y ^t might of ryght requyre to be rewarded euerlastyngly / wyth suche in [...]ym [...]ble ioy as neyther [...]ye hathe seen nor tonge can expresse / nor hart can ymagyne or conceyue) so y [...] yt also as true th [...]t all the fayth we [...]ue or cā haue can of hys own n [...]ture as lytel or myche lesse deserue heuē / as our other good dedꝭ. For what gret [...] thīg do we to god / or what grete thing coulde we aske hym of ryght / bycause we byleue hī? as though he were mych beholdē vnto vs / in y ^t we vouchesaufe to truste hym / as though hys worshyp hunge in our handys / and hys estyma­cyon lost yf he were out of credence w ^t vs. And therfore amonge many folysh wordys of Luther / as folyshe as euer heretyque spoke / he neuer sp [...]e a more frantyque / thā in that he saythe y ^t god hath nede of our faythe. For he saythe that god hath no nede of our good workys / but he hath nede of our faythe / and hathe nede that we sholde byleue hym. Trouthe ys yt that he nedeth [...] neyther our fayth nor oure workys. But syth that he hath determyned tha [...] he wyll not saue vs wythoute both yf we be of dyscrecyon to haue both / therfore haue we nede of bothe. And yet neyther is there the tone nor the tot [...]er nor they both together bytwene them / that be of theyre owne nature worthy the rewarde of heuen. But as we se [...] y ^• one ounce of gold wherof .x. pownde weyghte were not of hys owne nature toward mā worth one oūce of whete / nor one hundred pownde weyght therof of the nature selfe worthe one sely shepe / ys yet among men by a pryce appoynted and agreed worth many hole shepe / and many a pownde weyght of brede / so hath yt lyked y ^• lyberall good­nes of god to set as well our fayth as oure dedys / whyche were ellys both [...] twayn of theyr owne nature ryght lytell ī value at so hygh a pryce / as non [...] ys able to bye theym and paye for thē but hym self / bycawse we shold work [...] th [...] ̄ only to hym / and haue none other [Page] pay mayster nor notte other chapmā to sell our ware and our worke vnto / but only hym. Except we wolde be so mad & towardys hym so vnkynd y ^t we wold sell yt to a nother for lesse / nather than to hym for more. As some do / that had leuer trauayle far of and sell for lesse / than they wold for more sell to theyre neyghbours at home. And as do these folysh ypocrytꝭ / which rather thā they wold sell theyr worke to god for euer­lastynge ioy of heuen / sell yt all to the world for the peuysh plesure of y ^e vayn prayse puffed out of pore mortall men­nys mouthes wyth a blast of wynde. ¶Unto thys he sayd that very true yt was y ^t all our workys toke theyre va­lue & pryce after thacceptacyō of god / & as he lyst to allowe them. But he sayd that god reiected / dysalowed / and set at nought all the workys of infydelys wrought wythout fayth. For sine fide impossibile est placere deo / w̄tout fayth yt is īpossyble to please god. S [...] o [...] his faythfull chosen peple that byleue and trust in hym / he accepteth & alloweth all the dedys. And that is sayd he / wel proued by the wordys of saynt Iohn̄ / Nichil dānationis est hiis qui sunt in Christo iesu. And albe yt that in the re­hersyng of the cōmunycacyō had wyth thys man / yt may well be y ^t my remē ­braunce maye partely mysse the order / partely peraduenture adde or my [...]ysh in some parte of the mater / yet in thys poynt I assure you faythfully / there ys no maner chaūg or varyaūce from his opynyon / but that after many shyftys he brought yt playnly to thys poynt at last / that he and his felows that were of Luthers secte / were fermely of this opynyon / that they byleued that god worketh all in euery mā good workys and badde. Howe be yt no suche as he foreknoweth to be dāpned / no maner workys be profyfable to them. For god taketh theym for nought be they neuer so good. But on the tother syde in those he hath chosē fro y ^e begynnīg & predestynate to glory / all workꝭ be good ynog [...] For god accepteth and taketh thē well a worth be they neuer so bad.

¶It was asked hym than whyther y ^t the forsakynge of Cryst by Peter was alowed and well approued by Cryste. And whyther y ^t aduour [...]y & māslaugh [...]ter was by god wel alowed in Dauyd. ¶Wherunto he sayd that bycause they were chosē and predestynate / therfore those synnys were not / nor the synnys of any suche men be not imputed vnto theym. But god bycause he hath frome the begynnynge chosen theym to euer­lastyng blysse / therfore he [...]rre [...]teth no blame of theyr dedys vnto theym / but all the workys of a iuste man that ys to saye quod he of a person by god pre­destynate to glory / turne hym to good / how euyll so euer they be. And thys for cōclusyon he declared to be theyr very playn mynde and opynyon / for all the clockys that he set vppon the mater by­fore / to make yt seme that they mened in theyr wordꝭ none harme. And there yt clerely appered / that he and hys f [...] whych in theyr prechyng do couertly & craftely secte oute the dampnable secte of Luther / hoope and ga [...]e alway for some other tyme / in whych they truste opēly & boldely to play the rauenoꝰ w [...]luys & deuoure the shepe & marre y ^e hole flok. And ī y ^t mene s [...]as [...] ̄ be cōtēt to play y ^e wyly foxꝭ & wyrry sīple soulꝭ & pore lā bes / as thei may catch thē stragelīg frō y ^e fold / or rather lyke a false shepeher­dꝭ do [...] y ^t wold but backe ī syght / & s [...]me [Page Cxv] to fetche in y ^e shepe / & yet kyll a lambe in a corner. Men speke of som that bere two facys in one hode. I neuer saw eny y ^t more veryly play y ^t pagaūte / than do thys kynde of suche prech [...] ours. For in prechyng to the peple they make a vy­sage as though they came strayght frō heuen to teche them a new better way & more trew than the chyrche techeth / or hath taught this many hūdred yere. And then to y ^e chyrch in examynacyon they shew thē selfe as pore mē of mydle erth / & as though they taught none o­ther wyse thā y ^e chyrch doth. But in cō ­clusyō whē they be well examyned / & w ^t mych worke that falsehode of theyr cloked collusyō ys pulled of / thē appe­reth there all y ^e malycyous trechery / & what poyson they put forthe vnder the cloke of hony. As thys mā y ^t I tell you of laborynge all y ^t he myghte by many meanes to make yt seme / that in pre­chīg / y ^t faith alon was sufficiēt for our saluacyō / & y ^t good workꝭ were nothīg worth / had nothīg entended but well & accordyng to y ^e doctryne of y ^e chyrch / & y ^t he & hys felowes neuer ment otherwyse thā y ^e chyrch meneth / yet in cōclusyō he playnly shewed hym selfe / y ^t he & hys felows entend therby to brynge y ^e peple to thys poynt at last / y ^t all thyng handgeth onely vppon desteny / & that the lybertye of mānys wyll shold serue of ryght nought / nor mēnys dedꝭ good or bad made no dyfference afore god / but that in hys chosen people nothyng myslyketh hym be yt neuer so bad / and in the tother sort nothyng pleseth hym be yt neuer so good / the very worst and moste my scheuouse heresye y ^t euer was thoughte vppon / and therto the moost madde. For as yt ys sayde vnto hym / yf this were trew / wherto preche they at all? and counsayle eny man o [...] thynge or other? What fruyte cowlde come of theyre exhortacyon yf all shold hange vppon destenye? There were shewed vnto hym many thyngys for the reprofe of that vnreasonable and detestable heresye / and that the textys whyche he alledged / nothynge made for hys purpose. For as for that he al­ledged of saynt Powle / that there ys no dampnacyon to theym that be in Cryste Iesu / was ment of good fayth­full folke that lyue vertuousely / and therefore where he sayth that there ys no dampnacyon to theym that be in Cryste Iesu / yt foloweth forthwyth in the texte / those that walke not after the [...]esshe. Menyng playnly y ^t there is no mā so plāted in Cryst Iesu / but & yf he folow y ^e fleshly ways of hys sensuall appetytys / he shalbe dāpned for all his fayth in Cryst. For ellis it shold folow vpō this false opiniō / if god accept wel all the workys of them that are pre­destynate / than is synne no synne. But in y ^e tother sort whō god hath not pre­destynate. And than ys yt as myche to say as no mā may lawfully be nought no man lawfully do thefte or aduou­tery / nor lawfully be a manquellour / nor lawfully forswere hym selfe but goddys good sonnys and hys specyall chosen chyldren.

¶Now where he alledged the wor­dys of saynt Powle / q iuste omnia co­operantur in bonū / To a iuste man all thyngys worke together to hys wele / yt was sayde that yt ment that all the euylles that men dyd vnto theym / tur­ne them to good & be to good mē occa­sion of theyr meryte / as was to Iob all y ^e tormētys by whych y ^e deuyll assauted hys pacyence / and all the paynys that [Page] P [...]gan tyrau [...]tys dyd vnto the holy martyrs. And somtyme y ^e syn in whych a good man ys by goddys sufferaunce ꝑmytted to fall / ys an occasyon to hym of a gretter good / or of thauoydyng of a gretter syn. As theschewynge of an hyghe spyrytuall pryde / in to whyche peraduenture the contynuall c [...]urse of hys vertuous lyfe might by the deuyls subtyll suggestyon haue brought hym / whereas one foule act of lechery hath shewed hym his f [...]ayletye / and in stede of pryde broughte hym in to penaunce and humylyte / and make hym runne the faster forward in vertue / bycawse he hath letted and syt styll a whyle in syn / and therfore wyll he runne forthe to wynne agayne in hys waye that he byfore caste hym selfe behynde. But yt was not ment that euer theyr synnys so turned thē to good / that they were accepted the more and rewarded the better for theyr euyll dedys. Nor god remytteth not the synnys of his chosen people / nor forbereth not to impute the blame therof vnto them / bycawse they be hys chosen people. For he accepteth not folk for theyr persons but for theyr merytys / but where as they haue syn­ned / he punyssheth as wel theym as o­ther / and somtyme more bycause theyr formare good lyuyng somwhat of congruence deserued that they shold by punysshment be called agayne to grace / and not be for theyr fawte so sone cast clene away / as some other obdurate in maly [...]e and euyll cu [...]ume of synne / deserue to haue y ^e grace of god & hys cal­lyng [...]n neuer more offred vnto them / and vnto som yt ys o [...]red that wyl not receyue yt. God called on [...]a [...]yd by y ^e prophete Nathan / and yet punysshed hys of [...]re. Cryst loked on Peter after he had forsaken and forsworne hym / and Peter therwyth toke repētaunce. God loked on Iudas & kyssed hym to / and he turned to none amendement. Now god frō the begynnyng before y ^e worlde was created / foreseyng in hys dyuyne pseyence or rather in y ^• therny­ [...]e of his godhed presently byholdyng / that Peter wold repent & Iudas wold dyspayre / and that the tone wold take hold of hys grace the tother wolde re­iecte yt / accepted and chose the tone & not the tother / as he wolde haue made the contrary choyce / yf he had forsene in them the contrary chaunge.

¶The .xii. chapyter.

¶The author inueheth agaynst the most pestylent secte of these Luthe­ranys / whych ascrybe our saluacion and dānacyon and all our dedys to desteny.

BUt now for to say as that here­tyque sayd after all hys shyftys at last that all that shall be saued shall be saued only bycause that god frome y ^e begynnynge hath chosen theym / & by­cause of that choyce all theyr dedys be good / or yf they be euyll yet god for cause of hys eternall choyce taketh thē well in wurth and imputeth no blame vnto theym / and that all other people whom god hath created shall be damp­ned onely bycawse he wolde not chose them / and that all theyr dedys eyther be nought or not wel accepted / bycause god lyst not in the begynnyng to chose theym / and that he worketh both in y ^e tone sorte & in the tother all theyr de­des hym selfe alone / and they do no­thyng therin theym selfe / and so that god whose goodnes is īestymable doth dampne so hounge a nomber of people to intollerable and intermynable tormē ­tys [Page Cxvi] only for hys pleasure / and for hys owne dedys wrought in theym onely by hym selfe / thys false opynyon is as the kyngys hyghnes moste vertuo [...]sly wryteth in hys epystle to Luther / the most abomynable heresye y ^t euer was. And surely it is so far agaynst all holy scrypture well vnderstanden / so farre agaynst all naturall reason / so vtterly subuertyng all vertue and all good or­der in the world / so hyghly blasphemīg the goodnes and maieste of almyghty god in heuen / that yt is more than wō der how eny man erthely that hath ey­ther one sparke of wyt in hys hed / or toward god or man one droppe of good wyll in his harte / shold not abhorre to here yt. For thys execrable heresye ma­keth god the cause of all euyl / and such cruell appetyte as neuer tyrannte and tormentour had / ascrybe they to the be­nygne nature of almyghty god. For where as our [...]auyour Cryst toke vppō hym self all our syn / and of hys endles pytye bare the payne of theym for our sake / this dampnable heresye holdeth / that god shold be fyrst so vntrew that he sholde laye vnto vs the wyght and blame of hys owne fawtys / that ys to wyt the euyll workys whyche as they say be not wrought by vs but in vs by god / and therunto they make hym so dyspy [...]uouse & cruell / that for hys own dedꝭ so done he shold haue a perpetual delyte & plesure to tormēt vs. Now turne they y ^• trya [...]le of holy scripture quyte in to poysō. For this false errour onys takē for treuth / wherof sholde all scry­pture serue? wherof shold serue y ^e exhor­tacyōs to good workis yf men neyther eny do / nor eny can do / neyther of thē self nor wyth helpe of grace? or yf eny be done by them whych be not chosen / theyr dedys be not accepted of god / by­cause he hath not chosē theyr persons / wherof shall serue the prechyngys and exhortacyōs to the fayth / yf the herers haue no lyb [...]rtye of theyre owne wyll / by which they may together with god­dys grace laboure to submytte and subdue the rebellyon of theyr reson to the obedyence of fayth and credence of the worde of god? wherof shall serue all y ^e dehortacyons and cōmynacyons and threttys in scrypture / by which god calleth men frō synne and euyll workys / yf the world were onys of mynde that they byleued after Luther / that no mā doth eny euyll dede hym selfe / but god doth theym all hym selfe. And that euery man ys eyther chosen or vnchosen. And yf we be of the chosen sorte / none euyll dede can dampne vs. And yf we be of the vnchosen sorte / no good dede can auayle vs. He that thus byleueth / what careth he what he doth / excepte for the fere of temporall lawys of this worlde. And yet yf hys false faythe he strong / he forceth lytell of theym also. For he shall thynke dyenge in hys bed or on the galows / cometh not after his deseruyng but hangethall vppon destenye. And therfore all lawys they set at nought. And they hold that no man ys bounden to obay [...] eny / but wold be at lybertye to byleue what they lyst / and do what they lyst / as they say that god doth with vs not what we deserue but what hymselfe ly [...]te.

¶Wherof shall reason serue yf mā had no power of hym selfe toward the dy­reccyon of hys owne workys / but that all our workys were brought forth of vs wythout oure wyll / worse than the workys be in dede out of a brute best / by the appetyte of his sensuall macyō / [Page] For oures sholde be by thys opynyon brought forth / as the leues come out of y ^• tre / or as a stone falleth downward / and the smoke vpwarde by the power of nature / so sholde I say all our dedys good or bad ascende or descende by the vyolent hand of god magre our myn­dys and thus y ^e bestys be not ashamed to say / whā they preue howrly by theyr owne experyence in theym selfe / that whan they wyll do a thyng they do yt. And wh [...]n they lyst they leue yt. I say not by theym selfe alone wythout god. But hys assystence ys alway at hand / yf we be wyllyng to worke therwyth / As the lyght is present with y ^e sonne / yf we lyst not wylfully to set our eyen and wynke.

¶Wherof shold serue all lawys? And where were bycome all good order a­mong men / yf euery mysordered wretche myghte alledge that hys mysche­uous dede was he destyny.

¶Yf fre wyll serue for nought / & eue­ry mannys dede ys hys desteny / why do these men complayn vpon eny mā? Except they wyll say they do it bycause yt ys theyr desteny to do so? And why wyll they be angry wyth them that punysh heretyques / except they wyll saye bycawse yt ys theyre desteny to be so [...] For yf they wyll hold theym to theyre own secte / and say men do thē wrong to burne theym for theyre heresyes by­cawse yt was theyr desteny to be here­tyques / they may be then well answe­red wyth theyr owne wordys / as one of theyr sect was serued ī a good town in Almayne whyche when he had rob­bed a man and was brought byfore y ^e iudges he coulde not denye the dedde / but he sayd yt was hys desteny to do yt and therfore they myghte not blame hī / they answered hym after hys own doctryne that yf yt were hys destenye to stele / and that therfore they muste holde hym excused / than yt was also theyr desteny to hange hym / and ther­fore he must as well holde theym ex­cused agayne. And vndowtedly a­monge men these takers awaye of fre wyll maye neuer auoyde that answer by reason. But than fall the wretches to the desperate wayes of deuyls and dampned sowlys. Thā fall they to raylyng and reprouyng the iustyce of god & say that hym selfe he wrought theyr euyll workys / and wrongfully punysshed theym / and cruelly created theym to wrechednes. Our mother Eue layd the wyght of her synne to the serpent / and god was offēded that she toke not her owne parte to her selfe. But these wreches excuse them selfe and y ^e deuyll and all / and lay both theyr own fautꝭ and the deuyls to / to the blame of al­myghty god. But sythe what so they say / they lytell care in dede of hell or of heuen / but wold in thys world lyue in leud lybertye / and haue all runne to ryot. And syth they se that they can not so be suffred / nor theyre secte allowed in iudgement / they deuyse by all the wayes they can to gete so many to fal in to theyr sorte / that they may be able to turne the worlde vp so downe / and defende theyr foly and false heresye by force. And thys they call the lybertye of the gospell / to be dyscharged of all order & of al lawys / and do what they lyst / whych be yt good / be it bad / ys as they saye nothynge but the workys of god wrought in theym. But they hope y ^t by thys mene god shall for the whyle worke in theym many mery pastymes. Wherin yf theyre heresye were onys [Page Cxvii] [...] [Page] neuer bygon wyth vyolence / thoughe they had vsed all the wayes they coud to allecte y ^e peple by prechyng / though they had therw ^t done as Luther dothe now / and as Machomete dyd byfore / brynge vp opynyons pleasaunte to the peple / gyuyng theym lybertye to lewd­nes / yet yf they had set vyo [...] asyde / good crysten people had peraduenture yet vnto thys day / vsed le [...] vyolence toward theym than they do now. And yet were heresye well worthy to be as [...]ore as eny other f [...]ut / syth there ys n [...] fawt that more [...]endeth god. Howe be it whyle they forbare vyolēce / there was lytell vyolēce done to them. And [...]ely thoughe god be able agaynst all persecucyō to pserue and encreace his fayth amonge the people / as he dyd in the begynnyng for all the persecucyon of the Paynyms and the Iewys / yet is yt no reson to loke that crysten pryncys shold suffer the catholyke crysten peple to be oppressed by Turkys / or by heretyques worse then Turkys. ¶By my soule quod your frende I wold all the worlde were all agreed to take all vyolence and compulsyon away vppon all sydys crysten and hethen / and that no man were cōstrayned to bylyue but as he coulde be by grace wysedom and good wordys enduced / and then he y ^• wold go to god go on a goddys [...]/and he that wyll go to the d [...]uyll the deuyll go wyth hym. ¶Forsoth quod I and yf yt so were / yet wold I lytell dowt but y ^• the good seed beyng sowē amonge y ^e peple / shold as wel come vp and be as stronge to saue yt selfe as y ^• [...]o [...]le / and god shold alway be stronger then the de [...]yll. But yet be heretyques and hethen men in two dyuers [...] cases. For in [...] the Turkys [...] and Paynyms wolde suffer y ^e fayth of Cryste to be pesybly preched amōg thē / and that we cryst [...]n mē shold therfore suffer in lyke wyse all theyre sectys to be preched amonge vs / and vyolence taken awaye by a [...]ent on both the sy­dys / I nothyng mystrust that y ^e fayth of Cryst shold mych more encreace th [...] ̄ decay. And albe yt that we sholde fynd among vs / that wold for the lewd ly­bertye of these sectys drawe to the de­uyll / yet so shold we fynde I dowt not amōge theym also many a thousande / that shold be content to le [...]e that bestely plesure & come to the fayth of Cryst / as came in the begynnynge to crysten­dom [...]e of the Paynysmes / that ly­ued as volup [...]uousely as the Tu [...]kys do [...]. But syth vyolence ys vsed on that p [...]e [...]/and Crystys fayth not ther suffered to be preched and taken / he y ^• wolde nowe suffer that secte to be pre­ched or taught amōge crysten men and not punysh & destroy the doers / were a playn enemye to Cryst / as he y ^e were cōtent to suffer Cryst lese hys worshyp in many so [...]lys on this syde / wythout eny one w [...]nne in theyr s [...]ede on the to­ther [...]de. But nowe yf vyolence were wyth [...] wen on that syde then thys way that ye speke of were peraduēture bytwene crystendom and Tu [...]kaye o [...] [...]ganys yf the worlde were a [...]ented thervnto and could hold yt / none [...]yll ways. For sythe we sholde nothyng so myche regard as the honoure of god / & [...] of the cry [...]en [...]ayth / & wynn [...]ge of mennys soules to heuen / we shold [...] to dy [...]h [...]nourg [...]d yf we mystrus [...]ed that hys fayth preched among other [...]ētly wythout dy [...]urbaū ­ce shold not be able to prosper. And by­ [...]yng that yt were / we shold hynd [...] [Page Cxviii] [...] [Page] [...] them punished by deth. w [...]ll may yt be th [...]t as we be all men [...] and not angellys / som of them may [...] some tyme eyther ouer fer [...]t mynd or vn­dyscre [...]e zele / or per [...]as an [...]ngry and a cruell ha [...]te / by whych they m [...]y [...]end god in y ^• selfe same dede / wherof they shold ellys gretely me [...]yt. But surely y ^e ordre of the spyrytuall law therin is doth good / reasonable / [...]/& cha­rytabl [...]/and nothyng desyryng y ^e deth of eny man therin. For [...] y ^e fyrst fawte he ys [...] forswereth all heresies / doth suche [...]enaūce for his fawte as y ^e byshoppe assygneth him. And ys in such wyse gracyously receyued ag [...]yne in to the fauour & suffragis of Cristꝭ chyrch. But & yf he be takē [...]ftesonys wyth the [...]me cryme agayne / than ys he put out of y ^e chrysten [...]okke by excōm [...]nycatiō. And by cause that being such / his con­uersacyon were pe [...]ylou [...]e among chry­sten men / the chrych refuseth hym / and therof the clergy geueth [...]nowledge to the tēporal [...]y [...]/no [...] exha [...]tyng y ^e prync [...] or eny man [...]llys eyther to kyll hym or punysh hym / but onely in the pr [...]sence of the temporal offycer / y ^e spyrytu [...]lty [...] not delyuereth hym but leueth hym to the secular hand / and forsaketh him as one excōmunycate and remoued ou [...] of the chrystē [...]okke. And though y ^e chyrch be not lyght and sodayne in re [...]eyuyng hym agayn [...]/yet at y ^e tyme of his deth vppon his request w ^t tokens of [...]ta­ [...]ce / he is absolued & receyued agayne.

¶The .xiiii. chapyter.

¶The author sū what sheweth that the clergye doth no wrong in leuyng heretyques to secular hand / though theyr deth folowe theron. And he sheweth also tha [...]t yt ys lawfull to resyste the [...] and [...] other in­fydelys / and that pryncys b [...] [...]den therto.

MAry quod your frend bu [...] [...] m [...] thyn [...]eth the byshoppe doth [...] moch as though he kylle [...] hym / wh [...]n he leueth hym to y ^e secular hand in such ty [...]e & plac [...]/as he w [...]eth w [...]l he sh [...]l s [...]n [...] be burned.

¶I wyll not here enter in to the [...]e­ [...]yon quod I whyther a preste myg [...] for eny cause / and yf for eny / whyt [...] th [...] for heresye wythout blame of y [...] re [...]la [...]yte put or cōmaunde eny man to dethe / eyther by expresse wordys or vnder the generall name of ryght and i [...]yce. In whych mater I coulde no [...] [...]ack bothe reason authoryte and exem­pl [...] of holy men. But in this mater that we h [...]ue in hand / yt ys suffycyent that the bysshop neyther dothe yt nor com­ [...]deth yt. For I thynke there wyll n [...] [...]eason bere yt / that whan the here­tique yf he went abrode wold wyth y ^e spredynge of hys erroure infecte other folk / the bysshop shold haue such pytye vppon hym / that he shold rather th [...]n other men shold punysh hys body / suf­ [...] hym to kyll other mennys sowlys. ¶In dede quod I there be some as ye say that eyther of hygh pretended pytye or of a fayned obseruaunce of the counsayle of Cryst / wold that no man shold punyshe eny heretyque or infydele ey­ther / not though they inuaded vs and dyd v [...] all y ^e harme they possyble could. And in thys opynyon ys Luther and [...] folowers / whyche amonge theyr other heresyes holde for a playn concl [...] syon / y ^t yt ys not lyefull to eny crysten m [...]n to fyght agaynst the Turke / or to make agaīst hym [...]ny resystēce / though he come in to crystendom wyth a great [...] to de [...]roy all. For th [...]y [Page Cxix] say that all crystē men are bounden to the coūsayles of Cryst / by whyche they say that we be forboden to defende our self / and that saynt peter was as ye rehersed reproued of our sauyour whā he strake of M [...]lchus ere / albe it y ^t he dyd yt in the defence of hys own mayster / and the moost innocent man that euer was. And vnto this they lay as ye sayd in y ^• begynnyng / that syth the tyme y ^• crysten men fyrst fell to fyghtynge / yt hath ne [...]r encreaced but alwaye my­nysshed and decayed. So that at thys day the Turke hath estrayted vs very nere / & brought yt in wythin a ryghte narrow compare / & narrower shall do say they / as longe as we go aboute to defend crystendō by the sworde. whych they say sholde be as yt was in the be­gynnynge encreaced / so be contynued and preserued only by pacyence & mar­tyrdom. Thus holyly speke these godly fathers of Luthers secte / labourynge to procu [...]e y ^• no man sholde wyth [...]tand y ^• Turke / but let hym wynne all. And whā yf shold come to y ^•/thā wold they as yt [...] wyn all agay [...] by theyr pacyēte / hygh [...]/and [...]/by whyche now they can not suffer to besy [...] [...]yr b [...]e [...]y voluptu [...]nesse / but bro [...] theyr bowes / & take thē har­ [...]ttys vnder the name of wy [...]ys. And where they may not fyght agayn [...] the Turke [...]yse vp ī great plā [...] to [...]yghe agaynst theyr euē crystē. It ys I trow no grete maystry to perceyue whō they labou [...] to please y ^• haue y ^• [...]. And yf y ^• Turke happē to [...] dout whose [...] they wyll [...] and y ^• crysten people [...]elyke [...] none so [...] to ryse vp in rowtys & fyght agai [...]t cr [...]stē mē / & destroy as y ^• sect hath done many a good relygyous house / spoyled / mey­hemed / & slayne many a good vertuous mā / robbed / polluted / & pulled downe many a goodly chyrch of Cryst.

¶And now wher they lay for a profe / y ^• god were not cōtēted w ^t batayl made agaīst infydelꝭ / y ^• losse & mynyshmēt of crystēdō synnꝭ y ^e guyse bygā / they fare as dyd onys an olde sage father fole in Kent at such tyme as dyuers mē of worshyp assēbled old folk of y ^e cūtre to com­mune & deuyse about the amēdemēt of Sādwich hauē. At which time as they bygā fyrst to ēserche by reasō & by y ^e re­port of old mē there about / what thing h [...]d bē thoccasyō y ^t so good an hauē was in so few yerys so sore decayed / & suche sandꝭ rysen / & such shalow [...]a [...]tꝭ made therew ^t / y ^t ryght smal vess [...]ls had now mych worke to come in at dyuers tydꝭ / where grete shyps were w ^tin few yeris passed accustumed to ryde w ^tout dyffy­cultie / And som layng y ^e fawt to Good­wyn sandꝭ / sū to y ^e landis Inned by dyuers owners in y ^e Ile of Tenate out [...] of y ^e ch [...]nell / in which these was won [...] to cūp [...]ce the Isle & brynge the vessels r [...]und about yt / whose course at y ^e ebbe was wont to scoure the h [...]u [...]n / whych n [...]w th [...] see excluded thense / for lack [...] of such course and scouryng ys chouked [...] wyth s [...]nde / as they thus alledged dyuers men dyuers causes / there st [...]rte [...] o [...] good old father & sayd / ye may­sters say euery man what he wyll / cha marked this mater as wel as sū other. & [...] I wote how it waxed nought w [...]ll ynoughe. For I knew yt good / & [...] marked so chaue whā it bygan to wax wors. And what hath hurt it good [...] these g [...]ntylmen [...] By my [Page] fayth maysters q he yonder same ten­ [...]erden stepell & nothyng ellys / that by y ^• masse shold [...] twere a fayre fyshepole. ¶why hath y ^e stepell hurt y ^t hauen good father q they? Nay byr lady maysters q he ych can not tell you wel why / but chote well yt hath. For by god I knew yt a good hauen tyll y ^e steple was byl­ded. And by y ^e Mary masse cha marked yt well yt neuer thr [...]ue synnys. And thus wysely sp [...]ke these holy Luthera­ [...]ys / which sowing scysmes & sedycyōs among crysten people / lay the los [...]e ther o [...] to the wythstandyng of the Turkes inuasyon / & the resystynge of hys ma­lyce / where they sholde rather yf they had eny reason in theyr heddys / lay yt to the contrary. For whan crystē pryncys dyd theyr deuoyre agaīst myscreast [...]is and infydelys / there be storyes and monumentys ynoughe that wytnes [...]e the manyfest ayde and helpe of god in grete vyctoryes gyuen to good crysten pryncis by his almyghty hand. But on the tother syde synnys that thambiciō o [...] crysten rulers desyryng eche others d [...]mynyon / haue set theym at [...]/and dedly dyssenssyon amonge thē self / wherby whyle eche hathe aspyred to then [...]neynge of hys own / they haue [...]ytell forced what came of the comen corps of crystendome / god for the r [...] ̄ ­gynge of theyr inordynate appet [...]/hath wythdrawen hys helpe and she­wed that he careth as lytell / su [...]ynge whyle eche of them laboreth to [...] other / the Turke to prosper and so fer­forth to procede / that yf theyr blynde [...] lo [...]e not therto the [...]/he shall not fayle (whyche oure lor [...] forbede (wythin shorte proce [...]e to swa­lowe thē all.

¶ [...]nd [...]lbe yt Cry [...] forb [...]de saynt Pe­ter beyng a preste / and vnder hymself prynce of hys prestys to fyght wyth y ^e temporall sworde / towarde thempe­chement and resystence of hys fruteful passyon / wheruppō depēded y ^e saluacyō of mankynde / whych affeccyon our sa­uyour had byfore that tyme so sore re­proued and rebuked in hym / that he called hym therfore Sathā / yet ys yt nothyng to y ^e purpose to alledge / y ^• by y ^• ensāple tēperall pryncꝭ shold w ^tout the let of suche spyrytuall profyte & the suffraūce of mych spyrytuall harme suffer theyr people to be inuaded and oppres­sed by infydelys / to theyr vtter vndo­ynge not onely temporall but also of a grete part ꝑpetuall / whych were lyke of theyr frayletye for fere of wordely grefe & incōmodyte / to fall frō y ^e fayth & renye theyr baptysme. In whyche p [...] rell syth our lorde wold not y ^• [...]ny man shold wylfully put hym self / & for y ^• cause aduysed his dyscyples y ^• yf they were pursued in one cytye / they shold not cū forth & f [...]leh [...]rdely put thē self in parel of renyeng Cryst by imp [...]cyēs of som intollerable [...]mētꝭ / but [...]ther [...] thens in to som other place wher they myght serue hym in quyete / tyll he shold suffer thē to fall in suche poynt y ^• th [...]r [...] were no way to escape / & th [...] wold he haue thē abyde by theyr takelīg lyke mygh­ty champyons / wherein they shall not in suche case fayle of hys helpe [...] Now all be yt so that Cryste and hys holy app [...]stles / exhorte euery man to pa­cyent [...] and sufferaunce / wythoute re­quytynge of an euyll dede or makynge eny defen [...]/but vsynge ferther suffe­raūce / & [...] also good for euyll / yet [...] doth this coūsayll [...] mā y ^• he shall of [...] y ^• comen n [...] ture / suffer a nother man caws [...]les [...]e [Page Cxx] to kyll hym / nor letteth not eny man frō y ^e defence of a nother / whō he seeth innocēt and inuaded and oppressed by malyce. In whyche case both nature / reson / & goddys byheste byndeth / fyrst y ^e pryncys to y ^e saufegarde of hys peple with y ^e parell of hym self / as he taught Moyses to know hym self bounden to kyll y ^e Egypcyans in y ^e defence of He­brew / & after he byndeth euery mā to y ^e helpe & defence of hys good & harmles neyghbour [...]agaīst y ^e malyce & crueltye of y ^e wrōg doer. For as y ^e holy scrypture sayth / vnicui (que) dedit deꝰ curā de prori­mo suo / god hath gyuē euery mā charge of his neyghbour to kepe hī frō harme of body and soule / as mych as may lye in hys power. ¶And by thys reson ys not only excusable but also cōmēdable / y ^• comē warre which euery peple ta [...]eth in y ^e defēce of theyr cūtre agaīst [...]myes y ^t wold īuade it / syth y ^t euery mā fygh­teth not for y ^e defēce of hym self of a p­uate affectiō to hym self / but of a crystē charyte / for y ^e saufgarde & [...] of all other. which reason as it ha [...] place in all batayle of defēce / so hath it mo [...] especyally in y ^e batayle by which we defend y ^e crystē c [...] ̄trees agaīst y ^e [...]/in y ^t we defend ech other [...] y ^e mo [...] pa [...]ell and lo [...]/both of [...] sub­staunce / bodyly hurte / and [...]dycyon of mennys soules. And [...] lyefull and enioyned also [...] pry­uate person / how mych [...] yt to pryncis and [...]ler [...]/ [...] yf th [...]y may not [...] ­les wyttyngly suffer [...] whome they [...] in [...] my one to [...] away a [...] may they [...] captyue thē all? And yf they be boundē to y ^e defence and may not do yt alone / what madnes were yt to saye that the people may not helpe theym.