DEre vsurers I cha­unced a lyttel befo­re the last fayre to mete with one of yours in especiall, by the way, with whom I had an vnaduised communication concerning your science. And forasmuche as I trusted that it should be profitable to many, if it myght come to your eares, I thought it good to open it vnto you, trustyng that ye wil take it in good woorth, vntyll God send vs better. Thus fare ye well in haste.

What make shift do I fynde the here.

A ha frende Pasquill where am I not founde?

Go to, thou wilt be founde one daye, where thy frendes woulde thynke full lytell to haue founde the.

Why so I praye the? where is that as thou thynkest?

In the deuels chymeny or smokinge hole, as I do coniec­ture, I dare saye none otherwyse.

Oh Pasquill God forbidde it, I trust not that I haue de­serued it.

No? thinkest thou so? I warraunt [Page] the thou arte not lyke vnto hym that stōdeth behinde the dore. Well take hede, bele­ue me, it wilbe founde either in the dust or elles in y ^e swipings. But whither arte thou nowe bounde.

Why doest thou aske? kno­west thou not, that it is tyme to go to the fayre at Francke­forde?

Ah wilt thou thether. Oh howe manye good fellowes wilt thou there cut by the throte, I thought the haruest had ben in already, wilt thou nowe fyrst begynne to reape? But I thinke thou reapest both win­ter and Sommer, where thou sowest but lytell. Thou shalt one daye, (as I sayde before) be [Page] caried home to the deuell with thy frutes which thou hast reaped so longe. Thinkest thou that thou canst not be forborne at Franckeforth? Beleue me, of a suertie, there is many a good man at the fayre, that would rather see an olde wol­fe, then the.

Why so Pasquill? I hurte no man.

Neither doest thou good to any man, for naught: Whiche thynge many a good man at Franckeforth shall fynde ful­well, smally for their profyte.

What hast thou elles to do at Franckeforth? Wilt thou shea­re the shepe? It is towarde winter.

What shoulde I do there? what do other men there? I care my wares thither, sell thē and go my wayes agayne.

What wares cariest thou thither?

I carrie thither gownes of marterns.

What? cariest thou thyther gownes of marterns? The deuell taught the that occupa­cion. I am sure thou geuest them good cheape. But wo vnto those that are so oppressed by the reason of wynter, that they haue nede of thy gonnes. I would rather be a colde vn­tyll my tethe should clatter in my heade, then I woulde take payne to couer my body wyth [Page] thy gownes. I beleue that many in thy gownes are in suche perplexite, that it were no marueyll though they shoulde de­fyle them bothe behynde and before. But I praye the canst thou sell them well? Thou co­mest nowe very late.

Tush not a wit, I come yet soone ynough. Though I ca­me thither but at the goynge out of the fayre yet shoulde I come tyme ynough. For then haue I moste commonly the best market.

Hast thou so? I perceyue when the marchauntes are bounde homewardes agayne, and feare the colde wether, thē are thy gownes of marterns acceptable, howe deare soeuer [Page] some do bye them. Thou war­nest many one with thy gow­nes in one winter, that they a­re afterwardes a colde bothe winter and sommer. I praye the, why doest thou not also weare a good thicke, warme gowne, that thou nedest not to be couered so exceding warm, when men wyll haue a droppe of thy sweate? But what doest thou bye agayne, whan thou hast taken money.

Nothinge in especiall. I bye certayne skynnes of marterns that I maye haue woorke a­gainst the next fayre. And the ouerplus of the money whiche I haue then left do I lende vn­to some good fellowe suffering hym to do his profite withall vntyll I come home, and then [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] do I receiue it againe.

How doest thou suffre hym to do thy profite with it?

I saye his profite and com­moditie, what profite can he do me with it.

Oh God, saue me from that profite and cōmoditie. I praye God kepe thy gownes, thy momey, and thy lendinge out of ny trade: For they should sone do me such profite and commo­ditie therin, that there shoulde but littell remayne. I knowe that profite and cōmoditie full well good fellowe, tell me not of it I praye the.

I praye the good Pasquil. [Page] Let this passe, we will talke of other matters, I perceyue right well where about thou goest. Thou inuaiest against v­surye, & yet knowest not what vsurye meaneth. I was aba­shed as soone as euer I sawe the, for I thought wel ynough that thou wouldest not let me alone, because thou art always ready to comptrolle euery mā. Tell vs some newes I praye the.

Nay hearest thou, thou art not yet rid of me. Thou must at it first a litell better. I holde the a grote, I will tel the what vsurye is, except thou wilt not vnderstande me.

Alas good Pasquill, I am nothing afrayde of the. I kno­we [Page] as muche of that as thou canst tell me. I wyll geue the worcke ynough, if thou be so disposed. But thou wylt vn­derstande no reason, wherfore I coulde rather be content to talke with the of other mat­ters.

Yea thou knowest so much of it, that bothe God and man may lamēte it. Thou knowest so many shiftes, that a very subtill and large inhibition cō ­cerning vsurye must be made for the, if thou shouldest not fynde the way to make a great frendshyppe of moste abhomi­nable vsurye.

Be content good Pasquill, my knowledge, shall neyther displease God nor yet man, for [Page] I hurte no man with it.

In dede the knowledge myght be suffered, yf the dede folowed not.

Tush Pasquill of a trueth thou art ignoraunt of the mat­ter. Thou wilt haue to do with vsurye against his wyll, but it is not to be scanded as thou thinkest, for thou art not expert in y ^e trades of marchaū ­dise: Howe should tel the what vsurye meaneth? for I thinke thou arte not so depely sene in the holy scriptures, nor yet in the lawes, that thou shouldest knowe so properly and exacte­ly to discusse and to iudge of it. There are many poinctes be­longinge to it. Many crye out vpon vsurye, Luther hath also [Page] writtē fearcely against it, but it is good to see howe they hit it. Yea I knowe certaynely that if thou shouldest nowe tell me what vsurye is or meaneth, thou shuldest be to seke in it, I omitte that thou shouldest ex­actely dispute of it.

Wel go to, I haue not studied in holy scripture in dede, very much nor yet in y ^e lawes. Nei­ther is it possible for me to reci­te, vnderstond or to nōbre all & synguler inuencions and prac­tises, of the, and of the theuish, deuelyshe commyng, and sub­till felloweshippe, yet dare I vndertake to tell the what vsury is, neither wil I misse the o­ne strawe breadth from the holy scripture, and the true sense thereof. But I praye the, hast [Page] thou redde▪ Luthers booke whereof thou hast made men­cion? yf thou haue, I doubte not but he hath sufficiētly told it the. And although it please not the, I thynke that Luther wrote it not to thintent that it shoulde please the and suche as thou arte. I haue hearde dy­uers other whiche sayde that he vnderstode it not. But I thinke ye wil not vnderstande it. Yf he haue not noted, speci­fied and confuted all your excuses and shifting holes (as it is impossible for any mā to know or to remember them all) yet hath he laide such a foundaciō, that ye can not ouerthrowe it, no though ye knewe and had the subtiltie and craft of all the deuilles in hell. Therfore it skilleth not, although thou and [Page] suche lyke helhoundes be not pleased with it.

What good fellowe, thou nedest not to call me, and my con­sortes helhoundes, because I am not pleased with Luthers booke, for I knowe if thou thy selfe shouldest rede it and pon­dre it accordyngly, thou shoul­dest not be pleased with it, for he will haue it in al poinctes so strayt as a lyne. But he hath not wayed it with further ad­uisement.

What I praye the, hath he drawen the nette to streight for the? thinkest thou so? thou thoughtest he shoulde haue fa­uoured the, the breadth of a finger, that thou mightest find a stertyng hole, as thou doest.

Yea I wis is it drawē to narrowe & to straight, as also the wise Iuristes of Wittenbergh disputed of late, that yf a man should take fyue or syxe in the hundred by the yere, it shoulde be sinne and vsurye: Thynke ye that it was not well spoken of wyse men?

Yea I haue also hearde of the same, Art thou not pleased with it? Would to God that that man whiche disputed the same had so muche y ^t he might write of it, his vnwyse reason shoulde so spreade it out, that thou and all thy felloweshyppe shoulde haue yet lesse pleasure in it. I praye the thinkest thou that it is so vnwysely spoken, to saye that but fyue or syxe of [Page] the hundred is synne and vsu­rye? Howe doeth it then please the, that the same disputacion affirmeth moreouer, saing that if a man take a draught of cold water more then he hath lent, it is and ought to be called vsurye? Howe thinkest thou by that?

What should I thinke by it? It is folye. They vnderstonde it not, where should they haue learned it? I would gladly reason with one of them of it. And Pasquill, if I shoulde reason with the of it at large, I would tell the so muche, and laye be­fore the suche inuincible argu­mentes and conclusions, that thou shouldest be constrayned thy selfe to graunte and to confesse, that vsurye maye not be [Page] tyed vp so shorte nor be so nar­rowely cōprehended, how sore soeuer thou be nowe againste it. And woulde also decently proue vnto the that suche vsu­rye (as thou doest call it) is no sinne.

If I had nowe foure eares more then I haue, I would set them all open with nose and mouth to herkē vnto the, ther­fore go to with it, & spare not. If thou couldest persuade me that Luther and the high learned and experte Iuristes dyd not vnderstande it, and that suche vsurie were no synne, I would holde somwhat of the, and would then also playe the vsurer in suche sorte that no­thynge shoulde cause me to re­frayne it, sauing lacke of head [Page] money.

But I speake not of very great vsurye, as thou thinkest, but of a reasonable and decent gaynes.

Thy reasonable and decent is vnto the younge occupiers and beginners, euen as the playenge of the catte is vnto the mouse. But I praye the saye on, thynkest thou that vsurye ought not to be so straightely tyed, and that it is no sinne?

Wel seing thou hast a minde to it, I wyll talke with the fur­ther of it, and fyrst I will con­clude on this maner. Whatsoe­uer maye not be forborne for the mayntenaunce of the com­mon [Page] welth both in citie and cō ­trey, of mutuall felloweshyp, & of all maner of necessaries per­taynynge to the natural life of man, is not imputed vnto vs of God for synne, yea and the hyer powers ought not onely not to hynder it, but also to furder and helpe to maintayne it. For God wil haue the mutual conuersation among men pre­serued and entretayned in due ordre. Now it is manifest that vsurye can not be forborne for the vpholdynge of the premis­ses: Therefore can it not be synne, & reason requireth that it be let alone, C ae ff▪ de Vsuris pertotū. but it shall be founde contrary according as the temporall lawes writen haue letten it passe, as I am infour­med.

The fyrst parte, wyll I passe [Page] ouer and let it remayne in his force, Exemp. sunt in Deut. C. 18. Vbi iudeis spe­cialiter cō ceditur. Vsurari. et in Da­uid, 1. Re. 21 et in Euangel. Marci. C. 2. for doubteles whatsoe­uer among men can not be for­borne, shall not be imputed of God for synne, for elles therof shoulde followe a greate inconuenience, wherfore I wyl here make no farther searce of it.

But the other, where thou sa­yest, that vsurye can not be for borne for the same, I do not yet sufficiently vnderstande, neither wyll I graunte it the, oneles thou infourme me bet­ter of it. If thou canst proue it me, I will graunte the the con­sequence the thirde parte, and do as I haue saide before. But as longe as thou doest not pro­ue the same, I wyll in no wyse graunt the the third parte.

That vsury can not be for­borne, [Page] wyll I proue on this wyse.

The trades of Marchaun­dise can not be forborne. Wher­fore also those thynges that helpe to vpholde & maintayne the trades of marchaundyse can not be forborne.

That the trade of marchaū dise can not be forborne is eui­dent. For euery husbandman can not runne thither where all thynges necessary growe and are made. Neither is ther any lande, that hath al thinges necessary for mā, therfore must there nedes be some mē to car­rye all maner of necessaryes, from lande to lande and from one contrey to another. As it is manifest in the lawes.

Therfore must it also follo­we, that the thinge can not be [Page] forborne whiche helpeth too maintayne the trades of mar­chaundise. Callistra­ [...]usin l [...]j ff. de Nū ­dinis. Ex pl [...]tonc. Vide Dn. Budcum hic pul­chre. For lyke as I can not forbeare an house in wyn­ter, euen so can I not forbeare the thynge whiche sustayneth and kepeth vp the house from fallyng. In lyke manner, if the thynge be not, or elles ceasseth, whiche beareth and susteyneth the trades of marchaundise, then must also the trades of marchaundyse fall and ceasse.

Thou nedest not to make half so many wordes. I knowe aforehande, that whansoeuer thou affirmest any thynge ha­uing some fondacion, thou se­kest all vauntage that can bee sought. That the trades of marchaundise can not be for­borne, this do I knowe very [Page] wel. I knowe also on the other parte, that dyuers trades of marchaundise might as well be forborne, as some cannot be forborne. Whereof I coulde shewe the sufficiēt proues, but we wyll not nowe so farre di­gresse from oure purpose. I knowe (I saye) precysely, that the trades of marchaūdise can not be forborne. I do also vn­derstande and graūte, that the thynge can not bee forborne whiche susteyneth and vphol­deth the necessarye trades of marchaundise. But what wilt thou conclude of this?

Soft I pray the, thou shalt heare it well ynough. I proce­de nowe, sayenge.

What soeuer susteyneth and vpholdeth the necessarye tra­des [Page] of marchaūdise, can not be forborne, neither is it any sinne lendyng and borrowynge vp­holdeth the necessary trades of marchaundise.

Therfore can not lendynge and borrowinge be forborne, neither is it any synne.

Concedo totum argumentū, I graunte all the whole argu­ment. But see, howe connyng­ly he goeth aboute the matter, euen as the catte goeth about a mease of hoate potage. Oh, I perceiue so pretely wherabout thou goest. If thou get muche by this, I am sory for it. But I praye the, go to, saye on, let vs se what thou wilt make of it.

What should I make of it? I wil nowe procede further, and [Page] conclude on this wise.

Lendynge and borrowinge may not be forborne, neither is it any synne.

Wherefore also the occasion of lendynge and borrowynge, and the thynge whiche vphol­deth lendyng and borrowyng, may not be forborne, neither is it any synne.

Ha ha he, this maketh me to laughe, I praye the where hast thou learned this goodly ma­ner, that thou cōmest in so rus­shynge smothely ouer newe market heath? For thou migh­test haue comē nere to the matter a great deale. But thou wilt saye a good foundacion for thy matter, for the buylding is heauy, and hath muche nede of it, but digge not to depe, or els [Page] thou shalt fynde water. Oh what a sortee of dogges flyes hast thou about the, although it be not about midsomer. Whē didest thou euer heare me saye that lendyng and borrowinge is euill? Luc. Vi. Deu xxV Matt. V. Ecclisia▪ xxViii. Is it not commanded in the holy scripture? If so be that prayse vnto the lendinge and borrowyng, howe shoulde I dispraise the cause of lending and borrowyng? But on I praye the, I wyl mete with the anone, oute with it, go to, I wil tell the anone of that occasion.

Well, then will I procede, & saye for a conclusion.

The occasion of lending and borrowyng cā not be forborne, neither is it any synne.

Vsury is occasion of lending and borrowinge.

Therfore can not vsurye be forborne, neither is that also any synne.

Ergo, ideo, igitur, quare, quamobrem propterca. Here of followeth vsurye so mighte­ly, & cleaueth so fast to lendinge and borrowinge, that no Lo­gician is able to moue the con­sequence neither is there any Alchimist so cōnynge, nor any water so stronge, that is able to seperate them. What waye shal I now tourne me selfe? There hast thou hit me in dede.

Thou art full of pratynges and mockes, but yet thou canst not leape ouer it.

No in dede if a loode of haye [Page] stode in my waye I could not, but I praye y ^t who hath taught the that high logike? wher hast thou studied it? Where hast thou redde that vsurye is the occasion of lendinge and borro­wynge? specially of that len­dynge and borrowynge which is magnified and praysed of the scripture. I thought thou haddest vnderstanded me, that I speake of lendinge and borro­wynge whiche the scripture prayseth. Eccli. 29. C. But I must tell it the playne. There are two ma­ner of lendynges and borro­wings. The one is that which is done of Christian charite & mercifulnes frely without re­specte of any rewarde. The other is that whiche is done of couetousnes for gaynes and rewardes sake. Whether of both [Page] these (thinkest thou) is praised of holy scripture? Whether of both (thinkest thou) can not be forborne? I am sure that len­ding & borrowinge for nought of more loue and mercy, D.C. 29, Eccli. with out respect of any rewarde, is praysed in the scripture. And this maye not be forborne, this also is not onely no synne, but a Christian good worke, which God will rewarde, the occasiō whereof is the Christian loue, not to be forborne nor dispray­sed, for she is a tree ful of many good frutes. And here do I graunte the, that this lending and borrowynge with his oc­casion maye not be forborne, & that it is no synne. But where wilt thou become with y ^e other lending & borrowynge which procedeth of couetousnes for [Page] lucres sake? Thinkest thou that this also maye not be for­borne, and that it is no synne?

It is certayne that it maye not be forborne. Seynge then that it can not be forborne, it can not be synne, nor yet hys occasion, wherfore my conclu­sion must nedes stande sure.

Well if thou canst proue me, that suche lendynge whiche is done for lucres sake can not be forborne, then must I byte in a foure apple, and yelde me selfe, to be almoste ouercome.

That it cannot be forborne, it is euident, thou cōfessest thy self, and it is also manifest, that lendinge and borrowynge can [Page] not be forborne, & nowe, thou makest two kyndes of lending and borrowynge, wherewith I am content, neither do I di­sprayse the same diuision. But when the one ceasseth, if so be that lendinge and borrowinge shall continue then must the o­ther nedes succede. Thou seest with thyne owne eyes, that no man will lende for nought, & there muste nedes be lending and borrowynge what waye soeuer it come. Therfore must nedes the other succede in the rowme of the firste, and can in no wise be forborne. Nowe se­ynge it can not be forborne, the thynge ought also to be suffe­red whiche is the occasiō wherby lendynge and borrowynge is maintayned, least occupieng decaye and perysh by the, both [Page] in citie and towne as is afore mencioned. For certayne it is, that yf lendynge and borro­winge should ceasse, occupieng must nedes decaye and fal, and many men should peryshe and dye for honger. If then lēding for aduaūtage were forbiddē, or were made so greate a sinne, it shoulde ceasse, and lendynge for nought is ceassed and gone already, what an hurlyburly & inconuenience shoulde followe of it maye be easely perceiued.

Beholde I praye the, who would haue beleued that thou haddest ben so good an archer, that thou shouldest so iustely haue hit the pricke? Thou hast hit it euen as he that woulde stryke the cowe on the heade, and hit her on the tayle. I maruaill [Page] whether thou doest wyl­fully deceyue the selfe or that thy maister the deuell hath so blynded the, that thou canst or wilt not vnderstande thy selfe what thou speakest. Thy mea­nynge is this as I vnderstan­de thy wordes, forasmuche as no man wyll lende for nought, lendyng for aduauntage must nedes be suffered and not bee counted for synne, that the or­dinary felloweshyp and occu­pienge amonge men maye bee entretayned. What meaneth this elles? then, no man will do good, therefore must God suf­fre all abhominacion, and coūte it for no synne, or els he should be fayne to be in heauen alone. Or whan the wolfe hath eaten one shepe, whyle he wyll not be so cōtented, he doth not amisse, [Page] though he take another▪ either the deuell hym selfe hath blyn­ded the, and spoyled the of thy wittes, or elles thou wilt ne­des go the wrong way against the deuilles wyll. A blynde mā maye fele, howe this agreeth, no man will do good, therefore must wronge dealynge be praysed. Thou sayest, and alas it is to true, that no man will lende for nought. But what is the cause? Is it not that detestable vnsaciable couetousnes? If that were not the first lending shoulde not ceasse but followe mightely. But when couetousnes is present, and doth hinder it, is it then Goddes seruice? Wilt thou therefore conclude, couetousnes hyndereth Chri­stian charite, therfore must co­uetousnes haue his course? [Page] Yea sayest thou I graunt that it were better and more godly done, to lende for nought, but seyng the same is not done, the other can not be forborne, and seynge it can not be forborne, the occasion maye not be taken awaye, least it be dasshed alto­gether. Lo thou puttest here two partes, the one that len­dinge for aduauntage can not be forborne, the other is the cō ­sequence wherfore the same is no synne. So that thou repe­test all that thou hast sayde. Nowe wyll I aunswere the more playner. First that the lendynge for vsurye can not be forborne doest thou proue by this, because that lendinge without rewarde ceasseth, and that yet for all that lendynge and borrowinge may not be away. Whervpon [Page] I haue aunswered the that wronge dealynge can not be good, because no man wyll deale vprightely. Therfore must thou haue a respect to the occasion of the same ceassinge, & let it be synne, namely couetousnes, and then shalt easely iudge the other parte, that is to saye, whether lendynge for aduauntage by synne or not. And I thynke also that thou wilt iud­ge thy selfe that all is not well, sauyng only that necessite cau­seth the to affirme the contra­ry. For thou sayest that nede requireth it to be suffered, least lendinge and borrowynge do decaye. Here will I aske the a questiō: Who is it that can not forbeare this lendynge vpon vsurye? Thinkest thou that those pore fellowes whiche are [Page] in necessitie can not forbeare it? Yes yes very well, yf they can not forbeare lending, they may forbeare vsurye so muche the better. Yea sayest thou, if they can not forbeare lendyng then must also vsury nedes haue his course. Yea they are sory ynough for it, that it hath hys course, for they coulde forbeare it well ynough. Who is it then that can not forbeare it? The vsurers? Yea verely, because they can not be filled nor satis­fied, elles coulde they forbeare it well ynough. Therfore maye vsurye on euery syde be forborne well ynough, neither is there any necessite that can make it good.

Pasquill thou doest not well vnderstande me. Howe be it [Page] thou hast sayd so much in dede that it maye be perceiued, that the faute is nowhere but in the will. And indede a man might as well lende for nought as for lukers sake, if he woulde do it. But I wil be here, thou talkest muche of Christen loue, but it wilbe longe or thou shalt bring it into all marchauntes. Ther­fore do I suppose, that vsurye can not be cleane taken awaye in the trades of marchaundise. For then those trades must de­caye remedyles.

Yes, I vnderstande the well and fyne, nowe better then be­fore. Thou wilt graunte me I am sure, that it is not wel done not to lende for nought.

I graunte in dede that it were better and Godlyer, yf men dyd so. But that it should be so euill done to take a reaso­nable rewarde for it, this can not I beleue.

Well that shall come after: I wyll not nowe digresse from thy purpose, but will reasone with the of that, where thou thynkest, that vsurye may not be whole taken awaye, because of this necessite, that occupiēg shoulde fall and decaye. Of the synne wil we talke afterward. If vsurye were nowe forbyd­den quyte and cleane, in suche wyse that no man durst take any more then he had lent (I speake of vsurye and not of rentes whiche maye be redemed agayne) what thynkest thou [Page] woulde folowe of it?

Tusshe, that is impossible to be done, what shoulde follo­we of it, no man woulde lende or truste any more to other, & so must occupienge nedes de­caye.

Oh, would to God that many of those trades of occupiēg had neuer bene inuented nor brought vp. But hearest thou, I must somewhat tell the of that lendynge and borrowing whiche maye not be forborne. There must nedes be lendyng and trusting, to thyntent that many a pore fellowe maye ha­ue where withall to begynne, truthe it is that many one is able to occupie for the profite [Page] of the commō welth although he haue not alwaies ready money. But if it were forboden (as in dede it is forboden suffi­ciently) that no man should sell his wares whiche he trusteth, any dearer, then he doth when he selleth them for ready mo­ney, thinkest thou that lending and trustynge woulde vtterly decaye? no verely. The great occupiers woulde neuer suffre that lacke in their occupienge. They shoulde not alwayes fynde suche marchauntes as would brynge them great bagges full of dubbell ducates.

Wherfore yf they woulde sell their wares they shoulde bee fayne to truste then as well as nowe. And although they woulde not truste many one whome they truste nowe, yet [Page] woulde they truste some of thē rather then they woulde kepe their wares & lose their freshe occupienge. And then must many a man occupie as farre as his purse woulde reache, and stretche out his legges accor­dynge to the length of his co­uerlet. He must occupie so mu­che the lesse, go fayre and ease­ly, and not flye before his fe­thers were growen. Then shoulde he also haue this ad­uauntage, that he shoulde bye so muche the better cheape, & shoulde not nede to take nau­ghty, olde, myngled and decei­uable wares, wherby he might warraunt them agayne vnto other, and nede not to deceiue any man. Whiche shoulde be vnto him an occasion of a good name whereby his occupieng [Page] should greatly increace. Now adayes, yf a man be trusted, he must geue so muche more in euery poūde, and besydes this he must take naughty and rot­ten wares, whereby the com­mon people is enhaunced and deceiued. For he must nedes sell hys false borrowed wares agayne so muche the dearer, if he wyll recouer his head mo­ney, and haue a lyuing by it. Wherfore if this enhauncynge were forboden, the marchaun­tes shoulde be constrayned to lende and to truste euē as well then as nowe, yf they woulde occupie, and lendyng and bor­rowynge should then kepe his course better and more cōmo­diously than it doth nowe.

Paraduenture thou wilt saye, that cā not be done, who shuld [Page] looke vpon it, or who can be in all occupacions, and at all bar­gaines? To this answere, that the borrowers and suche as shoulde be trusted, woulde ta­ke good hede to it, and woulde also inquire diligently, howe wares are solde for ready mo­ney. Therefore this is sure, that although suche enhaun­cynge and raysyng of prices in lendynge or trustynge were strayghtely forbodē, yet shoud good trades of marchaundyse and occupatiōs kepe their course neuerthelesse. And yf thou thynkest that the occupiers woulde also kepe vp their wa­res for ready money, thou ma­yest be sure, that yf one come & bryng ready money, yf so be that the occupier wyll not let hym haue hys wares for a reasonable [Page] pryce, he wyll go to another, whiche wilbe glad to let hym haue it for a price reasonable. Whosoeuer wyll make money of hys wares, must also re­ceyue money for them. The marchauntes and sellers are expert ynough in that feate, yf a man come vnto them & bring a bagge of money in his hand, they are loth to sende hym a­waye.

In lyke maner we conclude of lending. Where as one marchaunt lēdeth to another, or a riche Iewe hauyng much mo­ney lendeth to this man or to that man for money. If this were forbidden, as in dede it is forboden in all lawes, that no-man shoulde take more againe then he had lent, shoulde occu­pienge then decaye? No for­sothe. [Page] One good neighboure woulde lende to another ne­uertheles a crowne or twayne at his nede. If then one ryche man woulde not lende to ano­ther, so must the nedy leaue muche pryde, deceyte and braggynge. If the ryche would not lende vnto the pore marchaū ­tes, and specially to yonge be­ginners, then must euery man order him selfe thereafter, and occupie faire & softely, he must not crye ho before he were o­uer the dyche, nor make larger cloakes then the cloth woulde geue, and it were better and more profitable for the occu­piers and the common welth, that it is nowe when vsurye & suche greate lendyng is occu­pied.

It were better for the occu­piers, [Page] for then shoulde not eue­ry one that is not worth one hundred crownes be so ready to borrowe for .iij. thousande crownes wares, trustynge to the vsurers. Item it chaūceth many tymes when a man hath occupied for a season, and hath bene trusted of many an honest mā, which haue lent hym their wares, that an vsurer cōmeth after them, and eateth hym vp cleane, so that of flesshe and bo­nes he becommeth yron, in the deuils name, and payeth no­thynge to nomā. And though it were not greatly for the pro­fite of y ^e great occupiers which lende so muche money vpon vsurye, yet haue they no nede of it, neyther shoulde their oc­cupienge decaye by the reason thereof, and it shoulde be for [Page] the commodite of the meane sorte, that they should not be so deceiued, and also for the yong beginners, for then they shuld learne to take hede to them selues, and to occupie after their abilitie, that they shoulde not clyme so hygh in one yere, that that they shoulde afterwarde be constrayned to fall so muche the hier with shame, they shuld also knowe their gaynes, and that they gette it for them sel­ues and not for the vsurers. It shoulde be for the common weith, that God were not so offended with vsurye, that there chaunced not so many cōplain­tes of decayed marchauntes, that euery man must occupie according to his purpose, & not aboue hys abylite, least hee might bee occasioned to take [Page] muche vpon vsurye, by the reason whereof he should be fayne to rayse the pryces of his wa­res agayne, and to sell so much the dearer. If princes and ci­ties had not one or twayne that were ryche alone and ma­de a hūdred men pore or more the hygh Potentates and also their poore commons shoulde not so fore be burthened in ty­me of nede, they shoulde learne also to auoide some daungers. Wherfore it were better that vsurye were forboden, for ne­cessarye occupienge should re­mayne neuertheles in his course. And although it gaue the occupiers a blowe, (for many of them shoulde not haue so great a trade, neither shoulde there bee so many occupiers) yet can not I perceyue wherin [Page] it shoulde be preiudiciall or hurtefull to the common welth. For it shoulde profite the com­mon welth in those thynges whiche I haue recited before.

Parauenture thou wilt say vnto me, it is a thynge whiche perchaunce myght be brought to passe in suche thynges as shalbe done & contracted here­after, but howe should it agree with that whiche is in occu­pienge all ready? One man is indebted to another, euery mā wylbe payde, if his debter ha­ue no money there must nedes be some body to lende hym, for his creditour hath made hys rekenynge vpon it. Wherfore if vsurye were forbydden, he shoulde fynde no man that woulde lende hym.

To this I aunswere. That [Page] one must beare with another from the least vnto the moost, for they maye tarye well ynough. If they will not, Eccli. 29. they may go their wayes from the doores. If complaynte be ma­de then must the hyer powers helpe and counsayle according as the matter requireth. Yea I can be contente to graunte that it woulde geue the occu­piers a blowe, but wherein shoulde it hynder the common welth? The marchauntes also shoulde fynde the meanes wel ynough, that the trades of oc­cupienge shoulde not be great­ly hindred by it. But they let it not come to that, for it woulde seme very greuous them, but if it were ones put in vre, no man shoulde fele any hurte by it except the vsurers, neyther [Page] shoulde any man be the worse by it sauyng the chief marchaū tes, and that coulde make no greate matter. For within the space of a yeare or twayne it might be brought to that passe that all shoulde be forgotten, and there should be an vpright and true dealynge in al trades of occupienge. In dede it is a greate matter to speake of, yea and I knowe right well that all marchauntes thynke it vn­possible, but yet if they were so disposed, hauynge a mynde to it, and would helpe thereunto, they should finde it otherwise. This do I not speake because I woulde teache the hyer po­wers what they shoulde for­bidde, or because I thinke that lendynge and trusting may be altogether forborne. But to [Page] shewe the my minde howe vsurye may be right wel forborne, and that, although it were sharpely forbydden, the common welth shoulde not be onely not hyndered by it, but also greately furthered. Sicut ipse Impera­tor facitin L. I. § fin. C. de. cad. tollen And although it were somewhat preiudiciall to certayne fatte Cobbes, yet ought rather a respecte to bee hadde to the furtheraunce of the common welth, then to the priuate welth of certayne pri­uate and synfull persons. Sū ­ma GOD forbiddeth vs no­thinge that for the maintenaū ce of a decent order and for the necessite of mutuall conuersa­cion & lyuinge betwene man & man can not be forborne. But God hath forbidden vsurye. Vt infra patebit. Wherfore it is certayne and cleare, that it maye well be for­borne. [Page] Also that the abolishing of it semeth to be suche a busy pece of worke, is for lacke of a good will towardes the same, for the faute of it is nowhere elles but in the will, wherfore I saye, that the obiectiō of the great occupiers and specially of the vsurers is nothynge worth, whiche saye, that vsury can not be abrogated, though there be neuer so much cryeng and writinge against it, becau­se that for the maintenaūce of the trades of marchaundise it can not be forborne. In dede they that be vsurers, and such as haue a profite by it, thinke that they can not forbeare it, yea many of them (I thynke) would go nygh to hange them selues, yf it should be forbiddē, or rather more then forbidden, [Page] but the common welth might forbeare it wel ynough, for the necessary trades & occupiēges, shoulde kepe their course ne­uertheles, as farrefurth as they are necessary and profita­ble for the common welth, and can not be forborne.

Of a truthe Pasquill thou art able to bringe a man in a doubte. In dede it is true that the faulte is but in the will, for elles it coulde not be so impossible to be done, But to brynge men to this will is very harde to be done. There are very many of this opinion, yea and I my selfe haue bene of this iud­gement, that vsurye ought to be permitted, and not to be abolyshed, because of the trades of marchaundise. But nowe ve­rely [Page] I knowe not what I shoulde saye. Truely I wyl lo­ke better vpon the matter.

Remember thy selfe and studye aboute it, and thou shalt fynde that the faute is in the will onely, and not in the possi­bilite, as pertayninge to the marchauntes. I knowe that not a fewe, vnto whome this our communication shal come, wil be very sore offended with al, thinkinge that heauē would fall, and the worlde peryshe, yf vsurye shoulde be abolyshed & taken away, notwithstanding euery man is bounde to coun­sayle, to saye, and to do the best for the profite of the common welth. But if there were any wyse man among them being perswaded and certified by [Page] hys learnynge that vsurye myght not be forborne, for the mayntenaunce of occupieng & for the profite of the common welth, that woulde write a­gainst me? Howe shoulde I do then? But I do not greately feare it, I trust to God that I shall gette neuer a white heare for it. For they are asshamed of their occupacion, neither wyll any of them lyghtely crye Cuckowe.

No faith Pasquill, thou ne­dest not to feare that matter neuertheles yf it should chaū ­ce, whiche God forbidde, I doubte not, but thou wouldest fynde an aunswere for hym.

But I will loke better vpon it my selfe, and at this tyme we wyl procede, and talke further [Page] of the matter that I spake of before. I will graunte the that it were more Godly and Chri­stenly done, if one would lende to another for nought, yea I permitte also y ^e vsurye myght be forborne for a nede. But thinkest thou, I praye the, that a man is so bounde to lende for nought, that it should be sinne, yf he did it not? Maye not one vse his goodes for his most aduauntage? Who will compell a man to lende awaye his goo­des for nought, whiche he myght occupie hym selfe?

Thou puttest here thre ma­ner of questiōs. First, whether a man be bounde to lende vnto his neighbour: Secōdly whe­ther it bee synne to take any thynge for it. Thirdely whe­ther [Page] a man maye not occupye his goodes to his moste ad­uauntage. To the first wyll I answere the with Doctor Lu­ther, that the tēporall powers doth not compell the to lende awaye thyne owne, wherfore also the tēporall powers doth not correcte the if thou do it not, neither can they saye that thereby thou hast offended a­gainst thē. But whether thou be bounde to it before God, & whether it be sinne before god, nedest thou not to aske me, for it is written. Whosoeuer hath this worldes good, i. Iohn. iij. and seeth his brother haue nede, & shut­teth vp his compassion from hym, howe abydeth the loue of God in hym. Is not loue com­maunded in many places of holy scripture? and also her wor­kes? [Page] Sayth not the scripture, I. Ioh. iiij beloued, yf God so loued vs, that he gaue his onely begottē sonne for vs, and sent hym into the worlde, that we might ly­ue through hym, we ought al­so to loue one another. If we loue one another, God dwel­leth in vs. Ibidem. Item this cōmaun­dement haue we of hym, that he whiche loueth God shoulde loue his brother also. Leuit. xix Item thou shalt loue thy neighboure as thy selfe. Gal. V. Item se that ye lo­ue one another with a pure harte feruently. I. Pet. I. Item, this is my commaundement, that ye loue one another. Iohn. xV. Lo, thou art bounde to loue thy neighbour as thy selfe, arte thou not then bounde to helpe hym to coun­saill hym, and to profyte hym, as thy selfe? Yea yf thou must [Page] do to other as thou wouldest be done to if thou were in ne­cessite, Luc. VI. Mat. Vij. and yf thou mightest be holpen with money, and kne­weth that thy neighbour had ynough, wouldest thou not be glad that he woulde helpe and succour the? Rom. xij. Thynkes thou that loue is called the fulfilling of the lawe in vayne? Wylt thou then be a Christian? wilt thou walke in the lawe? Wilt thou dwell in God? And wilt not abyde and walke in loue? Sayth not the lorde Christe, I. Iohn iiij Mat. V. Deut. xV. tourne not awaye from hym that woulde borrowe of the? Item. When one of thy bre­thren amōg you is waxed pore se that thou harden not thyne harte, nor shut to thyne hande from thy pore brother, but opē thyne hande to hym and lende [Page] hym sufficiente for hys nede whiche he hath. Lo thynkest thou that thou arte not suffi­ciently commaunded to lende vnto thy brother? Thynkest thou yet that thou arte not boūde to it? Yea is not by this also thy seconde question suffi­ciently answered, where thou demaūdest whether it be sinne to take ought for it? Beholde, yf the lendynge of a Christen man, be a dede of charite and mercy, should then the sellyng of thy wares to a man for mo­ney be also a dede of charite? What doest thou geue hym for goddes sake I praye the? Luc. vi. Sayeth not Christe, that thou shuldest lēde loking for nothīg therof again? He saith lokinge for nothing, I omitte taking a­ny thing. Shuld this also be a Godly worke, when thou len­dest [Page] & art payde dere ynough for thy labour? Do not sinners also lende synners, as Christe saith in the same place? Wilt thou aske yet whether it bee synne to take any more than thou hast lent? Is it not vsu­rye? Do noth both the Spiri­tuall and temporall lawes call all that vsurye, whatsoeuer is taken aboue the head summe? i. iiij. iiij. q C pleri (que). Cum. c. se­quen. A. xx. C. de Vsuris in Sum. ae. Communiter. Not onely the money which is that aboue, but also whatsoeuer it be, D. xiiij. q. iij. C. si fe­neraueris. C. sequen. D. C. ple­ri (que). &c. fin. as meate, drinke, raymēt cloth or any thing els. Yea also the only desyre or ho­pe to haue any lucre or gaynes by it is vsurye, and whosoeuer lendeth ought after this sorte is called an vsurer in the spiri­tual lawes. c. For it is written, Mutuum date nihil inde spe­rantes. Se that ye lēde loking [Page] for nothynge thereof agayne. D.C. Foe­nerarius. et de Vsuris C. Consuluit. D. C. 6. Luc. Excipe casus in. 6. Conque­stus. c. Sa­lubriter. et i. Ex de Vsurisquo rum (que) so­lutiones sunt in glossis. et in Interes­se de quo. i. Seinge then that it is vsurye whatsoeuer is desired and ta­ken aboue the head summe, as it is without any doubte; and is also so taken in all places in the lawes, doest thou yet de­maunde I saye, whether it be synne to take any thynge for it? Is not vsurye forbydden harde ynough bothe in the spi­rituall lawes, and also in the tē porall lawes? Is not this a playne texte of Christe whiche I haue nowe certayne tymes aledged out of the sixt chapter of Luke, where oure sauioure hymselfe cōmaundeth sayeng, se that ye lende lokynge for nothyng agayn? nothyng is not some thinge, neither is some thinge, nothing. What sayeth the Psalme? Lorde who shall [Page] dwell in thy tabernacle? Who shall rest vpon thy holy hyll? Euen he that leadeth an vncorrupt lyfe, and lendeth not hys money vpon vsurye.

Where shall he than become that geueth his money vpon vsury? Euen without the do­res. In that heauē, where the deuilles chace one another with dōge forkes. Exo. xxij. What saieth the lorde in the seconde boke of Moses? If thou lende money to any of my people, thou shalt not oppresse hym with vsury. Ezech. 18. Item Ezechiel nūbreth those amonge the righteous that receiue no vsurye, Leu. xxV nor any thyng ouer. Item in the third booke of moses. Thou shalt not take vsurye of thy brother, nor yet vantage. Thou shalt not lende hym thy money vpon vsurye, [Page] nor lende hym of thy fode to haue aduaūtage by it, but shalt feare thy God. Lo, if thou must feare thy God concernyng vsurye, thē must it nedes be synne. Item in the fifth boke of Mo­ses. Deu. xxiij Thou shalt be no vsurer vnto thy brother, neither in money, nor in fode, nor in any maner of thynge that is lent vpon vsury, that the lord may blesse the. That is least he course and condempne the yf thou do the contrary. xiiij q. iiij i.c. et q. § c. quod de­betur. etc. nec hoc d. q. iiij. etex. de Vsuris c. 1. & ij. & in alijs locis. In lyke maner is vsurye forbidden in the spiritual lawes written, so that it is not lawfull to com­mitte vsury neither for priests nor yet for laye men. And the temporall power submitteth her selfe vnto the spiritualtie in such cases as drawe to sinne and disquiete the conscience. [Page] Willyng men therein to obeye the spiritualtie. Authen. de Eccle­siast. titu­lus. Anno M. D. & Anno. M. D. xxx. auguste Vind. licorum. Whereby she will also haue vsurye forboden and abolyshed. Yea besydes the holsome lawes & statutes of this realme, the moste puys­saunt emperour Charles now reignyng and all the states of thempire together assembled at sundry generall counsailes, haue earnestly forbidden, abrogated and besides that know­ledged to be of none effecte all maner of contractes agreemē tes and bargaynes, myxt with vsury. Lo, doest thou yet aske whether it be synne to receyue more then thou hast lēt? Thou hearest and seest by many eui­dent and playne textes of holy scripture, and by many places alledged out of the lawes, that it is against God and the hyer [Page] powers both spiritual and temporall, thinkest thou then that if suche vsurers as haue taken so muche vsurye of many one, were depriued of their head money, were serued amisse? And that it were cōmaunded, that whosoeuer had geuen so muche vsurye as the head som me amounteth, should neither geue any more vsurye nor yet returne the head summe? For vsurye is forbidden, & the vsu­rers haue had warning ynou­gh. And yf nowe the hyer po­wers and magistrates would earnestly and openly proclai­me al maner of cōtractes mixt with vsurye to be voyde and of none effecte, and to put in execution the forsayd ordinaū ­ces contayned in Goddes bo­ke and the holsome lawes and [Page] statutes of this realme agrea­ble to the same, thynkest thou that it were not well done? Haue not those helhundes had warnyng ynough? Haue they not bene sufficiently admony­shed, both by open textes of holy scripture, and also by holso­me lawes and statutes before mencioned?

Tushe Pasquill, thou art to tediouse for me, I can holde my peace no longer. I haue herkened vnto y ^e till I sweate agayne. Thou hast tolde me so muche, that I muste nedes graunte that it were better & more godly, if one would lende to another for nought, then for money, neither can I chuse, but must nedes confesse that it is synne also, yf a mā take more [Page] than he dyd lende, for both the spirituall and temporall lawe sayth that it is vsurye, howe littell or whatsoeuer it be, and agayne the holy scripture and our Lord and sauiour Christe hymselfe, and besydes this the spirituall and temporall magi­strates do forbidde vsury. If so be then that God doth coū ­te it for greate synne whatsoe­uer is committed againste the commaundementes and ordi­naunces of the hyer powers onely, howe muche more wyll he counte it synne, and greuously punyshe whatsoeuer is cō ­mitted against his diuine maiestie his onely begotten sonne Iesus Christe, his worde, and agaynst the hyer powers both spirituall and temporall also? Therfore must vsurye nedes [Page] be a greate synne doubtles. But yet there are certayne ca­ses in the lawes, wherin a man may take somewhat more thē he hath lent? Wherfore I bele­ue, that in this lendynge wherof thou speakest are many ca­ses and exceptions wherein it is no synne at all.

In dede, there are certayne cases, wherein the surplus is not taken for vsurye, Gloss. in c. quoniā multi. xiiij q. iiij. as where the surplus is taken for auoy­dinge of dammage, for there it is counted and taken for an in­terest, and not for vsurye. What vsurp is For vsurye is, when any thynge is taken aboue the head summe, the creditour remayning har­meles, & the head summe not beinge diminished. But this is not vsurye, when a thynge is [Page] taken away from the one ende and put to agayne to the other ende, as I wil declare vnto y ^e.

Forasmuche as thou hast brought me into this disputa­cion, I can not yet ceasse from it. Thou speakest here of In­terest, I pray the tell me, is not Interest vsury, surplus and suche other all one? Or what difference is there among them?

(aduauntage) Cum per id proba­t [...]r dom. et possess. l. ij. C. de arg. et ret. possess.Well, seynge thou art dispo­sed, I take it also for a pastime, and wyll gladly talke with the further in the matter. But of Interest wyll I tell the after­wardes. It is farre another maner of thynge then vsurye, although it be a couerynge for muche vsury. I wyll fyrst ans­were [Page] the to thy thirde questiō, Cum quis que sue rei moderator & arbiter sit. l. In re mandata, c mandat i. (Losse &) hinderaū ce. whiche thou mouedest before, namely whether it be not law­ful for a man to occupie and vse his goodes as he maye best for his aduauntage, for thou shouldest elles buylde vpō it againe. Arg. l. Iu­sticia § Iuris precepta, ff. de Iustit. & iu­re. & sic secundum. l. Nam hoc natura. ff. de cōdict. indeb. l. Iure naturae. ff. de reg. Iur. Wherefore thou shalt vnder­stande that the temporall po­wers and their lawes do not forbydde the the vse of thy goodes accordynge to thy wyll & pleasure for thy most profite & aduaūtage. Notwithstanding although the same power in generall wyll and graunteth the the vse of it after thy mynde without any mans losse or hynderaunce, for thy moste profite and aduaūtage, yet doth it not extende so farre and so straightely against thy questiō as the holy scripture doth. Howebeit [Page] the temporall power dothe so L. si quis §. fin ff. de Instito. act l. si pupilli. §. sed & si quis ff. de nego gest d. ll. nam hoc. nat. & iure. naturae. straightely and narrowely cōprehende the vse of thy goo­des, that thou canst not buylde vsury vpon this question. For neither the spirituall nor tem­poral powers do permitte vn­to the the vse of thy goodes a­ny further, then as farre as it is not agaynst God and his la­wes. If so be then that they forbidde the the vse of them. arg ab of ficio Ma­gistratus et possint adduci in numerabi lia exem­pla exutro que iure. as it is against God and his la­wes, thē do they also forbidde the the same in vsury. For that is against God and the lawes as thou hast hearde before.

But yet the holy scripture go­eth further, and cōprehendeth the vse of them more straitely. For the hier powers suffre the to applye the vse of them for thy moste profite and aduaun­tage [Page] so that thou do not hyn­der nor harme any man wyth them, nor attempte any forbo­den thynge therere with. But the holy scripture wadeth fur­ther, and wyll also that thou shalt do good with them. The temporall powers in generall are content with the although thou do no good with them, so that thou do no hurte or harm with them. But the holy scri­pture taketh better holde of thyne aucthoritie whiche thou wylt haue in thy goodes. As hath ben declared abo­ue. And wyll that thou shalt not onely do no harme with them but also that thou shalt and must do good with them, yf so be that thou wilt be a Christian, & the chylde of God, and not a pa­nyme or a Turke. Thou arte forbydden to cōmitte any vsu­rye [Page] with them, and thou arte commaunded to serue and suc­coure thy neyghboure wyth them, as thou hast hearde be­fore. Therefore shalt thou vnderstande and take this auns­were concernynge thy thyrde question, that it is not lawfull for the without any difference to occupie and vse thy goodes at thyne owne pleasure, as thou canst best, for if thou wouldest occupye and vse them in matters contrary to God and his lawes, thou hast none auc­torite to do it, for thou art for­bidden so to do bothe by God & also by the hye powers whō thou must obeye, or elles thou art the childe of the deuel both body and soule, for God is thy creatour, Rom. xiij. and the hyer power is thy defender vnder God. Gen. i.

Of a truthe Pasquill this same is a good Instructiō, nei­ther do I thinke that any man can reproue it. And I assure the that I haue oftentymes hearde this obiection, that a man is lord and maister of his owne goodes and hath aucto­rite to vse them for his commodite and profite, thinking therby to make vsury lawfull, or at least that a mā were not boūde to lēde his goodes for nought. But nowe I perceyue ryght wel that a man not onely hath none auctorite to vse his mo­ney in vsurye or in any other thinge agaynst God and the lawes, but also that he is boūd of very dutye to serue other with it for nought, accordynge to y ^e manifest instructiō whiche [Page] thou hast geuen me out of the holy scripture. But I pray the nowe tell me some, what of the Interest, for there will also be­fall some questions.

Truely of this Interest hath Doctor Martyne Luther ge­uen the sufficient instructiō in his boke by the before mencio­ned, wherewith thou oughtest (yf thou were not so ful of hoū ­des flyes) to be satisfyed. But to thintent thou mayest haue occasion to demaūde more questions, I will repete it agayne.

Phil. Det. in l. Vnica C. desen (que) pro eo quod int. prof.This worde Interest hath many significations amonge the lawyers: But they serue not al for our purpose, wherfor I speake of that, whereof thou demaundest.

And the same is nothynge [Page] elles but amendes making for the losse and hinderaūce which the creditour maye haue sustained by y ^e reason of the debters none payment at his daye a­pointed. And this is called elegantly of doctor Martine Luther, a scathe watche, for it is nothynge elles. And yf there be no scathe wache (that is, no­table losse or damage sustained by the creditour) there can be no Interest, but it turneth to vsury whatsoeuer is taken a­boue the head summe.

This losse or dammage may happen to a man two maner of wayes. quo ad nostrum propositum. ut. sup.

First if thou lende me twen­ty poundes, and I promise the to repaye the same at a certayn daye and place apointed. The daye beyng expired. I breake [Page] promise with the. By the rea­son whereof thy creditours oppresse the, and put the to trou­ble and losse. And if I had kept promise with the thou shuldest not haue neded to suffre any dammage, but myghtest haue pleased thy creditour without any further costes & charges.

Secondely, when I haue lent the my money, and thou hauynge promised and appointed me a daye of payment, fay­lest in thy promyse and brea­kest thyne appointement with me, I may chaūce vpon a bar­gayne, by the whiche I myght haue gottē somewhat toward my lyuynge, but thou by the promyse breakynge causest me to lose the bargaine, and so hinderest me in myne occupienge, and liuinge.

Lo here are twoo maner of losses. Wherefore the Interest is elegantly called amonge the lawyers a wasshinge of scate, or an hyndering and ceassinge of gaynes. Glos. in Ver. Pos­sibile, ibi Det. & com. d. l. Vnica. d. tit.

Nowe this losse or scathe maye happen vnto a man two maner of wayes as cōcerninge the time or day apointed. First when I do not kepe promyse with the, as it is sayde before. Secondely also before my day is expyred. For it may chaunce that thy creditour may arreste the and put y ^e to hynderaūce, before my dayes come and peraduenture before thou wast ware of hym. Or thou mayest chaunce vpon a bargayne, in the meane season wherby thou mightest do good, but forsomuche as I haue thy money in [Page] hande, hauyng apoicnted the a daye of payment, whiche is not yet come, thou must forgo the sayde bargayne. Thus I saye maye this losse or scathe chaū ­ce two maner of wayes, that is to saye, before, or after the time apointed.

Well go to then, what sayest thou to the fyrst waye, when the losse chaūceth after the day apointed? That is, when thou by thy breakynge of promyse with me, causest me to incurre into losse and dammage?

Truely thys requireth no greate disputacion, Natura n. aequum est ut be­nefacia­mus Ba [...]ath. in l. Ex hoc iure. ff. de iust. & iur. Instituti ste in tt. de obligat. Vbi de oblig. ad. an thitoradi. for if so bee that thou hast layde out for me and lent me thy money at my nede, and hast gentely and lo­uingly [Page] serued and succoured me with it, the lawe of nature and also the lawes written graunte no lesse than that I must be .a. thankefull vnto the, and as muche as lyeth in me, kepe & saue the harmeles ney­ther is this repugnaunt to the lawe of God, for God wyll not that I shal be vnthankeful neither wyll he that I shall enda­mage any man. Howbeit, (Harmeles) Siue stipulatus sint Siue non. per Iura uulg. d. dam. etc. yet were it good and Godly, that euery creditour and debtoure as then woulde haue respecte to the qualite of the persone, of the tyme, and of the matter, & temper it after suche sorte, as it might be conformable to the Christian loue. Many thinges myght be here inferred and disputed concernynge the same, but the cases and qualities of [Page] all circumstaunces are diuers, and in, or by one man otherwi­se then in or by another. Luc. Vi. Wher­fore the concience must partely be charged, with Christian charite, and with these wordes of Christe, whatsoeuer ye would that other men shoulde do to you, do ye euē the same to thē: by these thynges ought the matter to be iudged and determined.

It must nedes be good rea­son that thou shouldest thankefully contente me. But I must tell the this also, yf I were ry­che and thou pore, and that thy wyll were good, but thou we­rest not able to paye me, not­witstandynge that thou had­dest not bene slacke to ende­uour [Page] thy selfe with all diligen­ce possible for to come oute of my debte, not hauing leawde­ly nor wastfully consumed nor spent thy substaunce, or if thou haddest had some mischaunce, whiche were no greate losse & hynderaunce vnto me, but vn­to the a great deale, forsomuch as I were more able to beare it thē thou, here thynkest thou that I ought to haue respecte to the condicion and qualitie of the matter, & vse it accordinge to the cōscience, and not accor­dinge to extremite.

Yea forsothe, thynke I in dede, all men knowledge and graunte it to be good reason, yea & it is but reason in dede, that thou shuldest be kept har­meles, and be recompenced for [Page] thy losse and hynderaunce, D. c. Luc. Vi. Math. 5. c Cum om­nes de Cō stitut. Ex l. i. ff. quod quis que uiris. etc. i. Pet. iiij. Matth. V Eccli. c. xxix. Pulcherri me de hac nostra materia. For no mā ought to be en­coura­ged nor occasio­ned to cō tinue in vngodlynes. but whatsoeuer thou doest thy self thou doest it to the lorde. Eue­ry man ought to vse hymselfe in all thinges, as he woulde be vsed hym selfe. Euery man ought to shewe loue and amite to his neighbour, & to be mer­ciful when necessite requireth. But this I saye agayne, if so be, that I had layed oute and lent my money to a man gent­ly and louingly, for his commodite and profite at his nede, & he were afterwarde slouthfull and slacke or ydell, or a Ryo­tour, a dronkarde, and horemonger, a player, or suche lyke, and by his owne wyl or at the least thorough his owne negligen­ce shoulde put me to losse and hynderaunce, wyth suche a mā I cānot beare, but must nedes [Page] go agaynst hym, Vide [...]he­sum Sy­rach. xij. tyll he stynke agayne. And I trust that in so doynge, I shoulde do well and Godly. But in necessite and innocencie, let a Christen man, be a Christen man.

But what sayest thou of the seconde waye after the daye of payment be expired? That is to saye, when thou hynderest me of some good bargayne by the reason of thy promyse breakinge and none payment.

Here must I nedes make a distinction: Or els thou woul­dest some fynde an hole to flye out at. And I saye that he vn­to whom thou hast gently lent thy money vpon his promyse doth not well to hynder the of [Page] thy lyuinge. For if he do he is worthy to receyue punyshmēt for hys ingratitude, and to make the amēdes. But adde, Ni­hil nisi quod in veritate inter­est, no more than thou hast lost by it in dede. Therfore I say? must a distructiō be made and as here Doctor Martyne Luther sayeth also, a concionable respecte and remembraunce must be had, whether, and if suche a bargayne dyd chaunce in dede, whether thou also myghtest haue had the same bargain in case thou haddest had thy money. And whether it was suche a bargayne in dede as myght haue bene lawfully contracted whereunto belongeth many thynges, whether it had bene profitable for the or not. Item wether thou couldest [Page] not haue forborne thy money for it, these and suche lyke cir­cumstaunces ought to be pon­dered and remembred least thou desire or take any more then thou hast suffered losse in dede, or elles it is no Interest, but theft and vsurye. For vn­der this pretence thou robbest thy pore brother. Therefore oughtest thou not onely to re­membre all these thynges, but also to haue respecte to the condicion and qualite of the per­son, of the tyme, and of the matter, as it is mencioned aboue in the fyrst waye. Whether the debter was able to do it, and to paye the, whether he haue wilfully neglected it or not, whe­ther he haue suffered any losse or misfortune, whether thou hast more losse be it then he or [Page] not or whether he haue suffe­red any losse or misfortune, whether thou hast more losse be it then he or not, or whether thou haue littell hynderaunce by it and he a greate deale, or not, whether thou myghtest as soone haue loost by the bar­gaine, as haue gottē any thing by it, whether thou myghtest haue bought the same bargain with a cleare conscience, and with honeste, and summa thou oughtest so to studie & to waye the matter, that thou become not a thefe & an vsurer. That thou mayest so deale with o­ther as thou wouldest be dealt wyth all. That thou measure not to sharpe, to thintent thou mayest obtayne agayne a full, Matth. V Eccli. xij. shaken and heaped measure in to thy bosome. And that thou [Page] mayest againe in tyme of nede obtaine mercy and become not an vnmercifull, false, deceitfull Turke, Panyme and Iewe, to thy Christen brother.

Of a truthe Pasquill thou concludest very narrowely.

Howe beit, in dede I can fynde no greate faute with it yf so be that I wylbe a Chrstian, But yf I wylbe an vsurer, a lyar, & a thefe, then haue I nothynge to do with all this busynes. I passe not of it, but let it go, whatsouer I gette I haue it, whatsoeuer or whatsoeuer I am called, yf I maye gette it I take it. But if I wil be a Chri­stian (I saye) surely then I can not correcte y ^e in thy saienges. For yf so be that I do not so pondre and waighe the losse, [Page] but require and take it with­out any consideracion of al the circumstaunces, it can not fay­le, but I must nedes (as it is sayde before) become a thefe & an vsurer, robbyng my neigh­bour by lyenge and deceiuing▪ neither shal ignoraunce excuse me in this matter, though I saye for mine excuse that I did it not wyttyngly but againste my wyll, for I myght take bet­ter hede, and if I had ponde­red and remembred it with as muche diligence as I ought to haue done, and as thā yet had put hym to ouermuche wrong without my wil & knowledge, it might be saide, transeat cum ceteris erroribus. And I must committe the matter to God.

Yea that must do as well as [Page] it maye. But yet there maye be no knauerye hid vnder the fame knowynge & willing. &c.

Well go to, tell me nowe of the losse sustayned by the creditour before the daie of paimēt. As when my creditours trou­ble me before the daye be come whiche thou hast appoincted me that I shoulde be payde?

Here must I make another distinction. If so be that thou haue layed out thy money for me at my nede, and hast decla­red vnto me what feare & care thou tokest for thy creditours wherupon I haue promised to saue the harmeles, or to tourne vnto the thy money agayne, why shoulde I not be bounde [Page] to do it? For besydes this that reason doth require it, I haue also made the promise to do it, by the onely reason wherof he were sufficiently obliged. Vt supra. And here doth the Lawe of God & also the lawe of man graunte the no lesse, thē that thou oughtest to be saued harmeles, only adde to this, euē the same that thou oughtest to adde in the first waye after the daye of paiment, thus doynge thou shalt not onely do no wronge, but also deale vprightely and Godly

But if so be, that I haue promised the nothinge but onely for lacke of payment at my day and terme apointed forsomuch as thou wast not ware of this trouble, what wilt thou then gette of me by the lawe? For I haue promised the nothynge, [Page] neither diddest thou motione any suche thynges vnto me, nor cast any such doubtes, also thou myghtest haue bestowed thy money aboute some other thynges whereof thou shoul­dest haue none assuraunce to be profitable vnto the or not. Yea thy money might also ha­ue tourned the to losse that no man had knowen of it. What can I do with thy misfortune? I myght also paraduēture ha­ue founde some other frende that woulde haue lent me so muche without any suche bu­synes. Therfore after the ex­tremite of the lawe, I owe the nought. But after the lawe of nature I am bounde to rendre the thankes, wherfore I thin­ke it good reason that I do helpe the to beare thy losse. For [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] thou mightest haue kept thi money in thy coffre, or mightest haue done good with it some other wayes, and haue abyden the auenture as wel of fortune as of misfortune. Seyng then that thou hast gentely lent me thy money and holpen me out of my nedes, I wil not, neither ought I to be so vnkynde that I woulde suffre the to incurre any losse for my sake, but will rather helpe the agayne and beare parte of losses and char­ges with the for so would I be dealt withall of other. Howebeit thou maiest not vse fals­hede with me, and brynge in more losse then thou hast suffe­red in dede, thou mayest not so ordre the matter y ^t thou shoul­dest go fre thy selfe, and laye al the burden vpon my backe, for [Page] I will beare with the, and not alone. Forsomuche as I wyll be thankefull and helpe the to beare thy losse without cōpul­sion, it shall become the in lyke-maner to be thanckfull and not to begyle me, nor to vse any thefte or vsurye with me. But yf so be that I shall beare the losse alone, then wyll I paye it no more, for thou maiest not lawfully with one syster make two brethren in lawe. &c. for I haue paide thy losse according to thy promyse.

In good fayth Pasquill I must nedes alowe thy reason, when I pondre and perpende thy sayenges and meanynge accordyngly. But howe thyn­kest thou by the other waye before the daye apoincted? As [Page] when a bargayne cometh to my handes before thy daye of payment become, whiche bar­gayn I must for go because my ready money is out of my han­des, in thy handes.

Here do I saye first as I sayde before. If I haue promi­sed the to saue the harmeles, & to beare thy losse all the whyle I haue had thy money, then is it reason that I make the amē ­des for so muche as thou hast lost in dede, but yet thou must be ware y ^t thou vse no deceite, and that thou vse the selfe in alwayes, as it hath bene sayde aboue in the other waye, after the daye apointed, remēbring, perpending and inquiringe all and singuler circumstaunces, condicions and qualities least [Page] thou become a thefe or an vsu­rer on my behalfe, and then wil I and also ought to satisfie my promyse and reason, and saue the harmeles.

But yf I haue made the no further promyse then vpon cō ­dicion, that if I kepe not touch with the, what wilt thou then get of me by y ^e lawe? For thou wast agreed with me. But yf thou chaūce to suffre any losse or dammage by the reason of my promyse breakyng and not kepynge touche with the, whe­ther. I haue promysed the or not, I ought must and will cō ­sidre and ease the same, and thē will I owe the no more but lo­ue and fauoure. Notwithstan­dinge, yf thou wilt consydre & remembre all circumstaunces, as hath bene sayd aboue in the [Page] seconde waye after the daye apointed, and wilt be no dissembler, if I do then perceiue, that thou arte hyndered because of my money, I wyll vse me selfe, as I would y ^e another shoulde vse hymselfe towardes me.

But in any wyse, become not thou a dissembler, thefe or vsu­rer on my behalfe. Summa, whensoeuer any man putteth the to losse or hinderaūce with out thy deseruynge, thou syn­nest not, yf thou aske and recei­ue amendes, neither is that a­ny vsury, but an Interest. But wheresoeuer is no lesse, there is also no Interest, but it is vsurye whatsoeuer is demaūded or receiued.

(Losse) Possit ad­di. nec pe­riculum sed uide­tur pro parte cō. CC. c. na­uig. de V­suris.Lo this is an Interest, as muche as pertayneth to len­dinge and borrowing. And by [Page] this maiest thou take in all ca­ses of lendyng and borrowing a sufficient instruction, to do vpryghtely.

O lorde God, yf all that be vsury, and so great synne that hath bene taken, and yet dayly is taken otherwyse, and after another sorte, then thou hast nowe declared of the Interest frende Pasquill, where shall then many an honest man be­come?

Mary without the doores shal they stande, as I haue said before, in that heauen, where the blacke men chace one ano­ther with dong forkes, yea where a lode of hote burninge coles is worth but one half pe­ny. [Page] What wilt thou speake of honest men? There is neither honestie nor vertue, where as vsury beareth any rule. Whe­re as the cōmaundement both of God, and also of the hyer powers is despised, body & soule for wicked Mammōs sake put in ieoperdy, and where oure neighbour is spoyled and rob­bed of his sweate and blowde, what wilt thou there speake of honestie?

Well Pasquil it is an heauy matter God wote, as thou sa­yest. Trueth it is that thou hast layde suche a sure founda­cion that I cānot ouerthrowe it, notwithstanding I must yet aske somewhat more. It so be that I lende a man money, no­ne otherwise but for nought, & [Page] vpon this cōdicion that he shal saue me harmeles, and yf he do presente me with some present or gifte, might I not receyue it with honestie?

Lo, whence commest thou with that? Hath not Doctor Luther geuen the a sufficient reason therof? If any man ge­ue the ought, why shoulde it not be lawfull for the to receiue the same shameles and blame­les? But what callest thou a gyft or a present? I: donari ff. de Donationib. A. xx. in Sua Sum­ma. eo. t. etc. A gyft or a present is that whiche is geuē frely without compulsion pro­cedynge of a thankefull harte, or of some other good inclina­tion and fauourable disposiciō. Not that any man must geue the somewhat if he wyll haue thy money, and that thou hast [Page] no money to helpe thy neigh­bour withall, oneles thou fele hym with some present or gift, nor yet this, whan I saye, yf thou wilt geue me a couple of crownes, or if thou wilt geue my wyfe or my chyldren thys or that, to drinke, I wil se what I can do. Nullo mō cogent [...] ut dicit [...]l do­nari ff de Reg. Iur. But it must procede of a fre wyll without any ma­ner compulsion, or elles suche gift and present whereof thou speakest is no gift, but playne vsury, and maketh the a thefe, and an vsurer.

Pasquill thou wylt not lea­ue. But what and if I do a mā great pleasure and high serui­ce with it, & he doth also take it for no lesse, & woulde not ta­ke twyse or thryse so muche as he geueth me that he woulde [Page] forbeare the money, dec. scienti. de reg. Iur. ut in. notwith­standinge he cōmeth & praieth me howe can I be against that thynge whiche he doeth with his good will?

Thou singest stil thyne olde songe. Doctor Luther hath sufficiently tolde the all these thynges, what speakest thou of hygh seruice, and his good will? If nede did not presse him, he woulde desyre none of thy hinnes nor yet of thy gese. Neither would he geue the so muche as the tayle of a peare, nor yet begge of the so muche as a littell pece of breade. For nede maketh an olde horse to tratte. Whatsoeuer a mā must nedes do, can not be done by his good wyll. Therfore ceasse to speake of good wyll har­dely.

It is true indede Pasquill, many one geueth oftentymes great giftes to another to thintente he myght obtayne some money lent of hym, which if he had no nede of hym would not geue him one halfpeny for goddes sake, in hys mooste mise­rye. Wherfore I may cease to speake of God wyll for it is a nedy wyll.

Yea, verely, as pertaynyng to hym that giueth the gifte, it is a nede will, and no free will. But as touching hym that re­ceyueth the gyfte, it is vsurye and robberye. Notwithstan­ding yf any mā geue me ought of thankefulnes, or otherwise: of frendshipp, whether it were before the lendynge or after. I [Page] would trust to receiue it with­out offēce: but I must beware that I haue no dissembler nor vsurer in my herte.

I must handle the better yet or I go, Pasquill. What and if I be an occupier, and haue not so muche money but I coulde occupie it all my selfe in myne owne science and gette some what by it. Notwithstanding a good fellowe being in necessi­te praieth me to lende hym .xl. or .l. crownes, whom I would be loth to leaue in nede, and yet if I should lende hym I should hinder myne owne occupieng. Might I not lawfully & with honestie take here fyue or syxe in the hundred for amendes?

Ah Syr, here must I nedes arreste & stande a while. Wherfore I praye the geue eare to that whiche I shal speake. Li­ke as the Cuckowe bewraieth hym selfe and crieth sorth hys owne name, euē so doest thou. For the Cuckowe cryeth no­thinge but Cuckowe, and that is his name. Euē so criest thou all into my bagge, neuer full, neuer full, and that is thy na­me. Thou wilt be very merci­full and iust, and wouldest be loth to leaue thy neighbour in necessite, & specially thy frende and fellowe, whiche is a good waye to begynne: But that fearefull crye which foloweth, soundinge on this wyse, it hin­dereth me, I must die for hon­ger yf the bagge be not soone full, is the deuill, and suffereth [Page] the not to performe thy good enterprise. I haue sufficiently declared vnto the out of the holy scripture, aboue where this questiō is also, in a maner, that thou arte boūde to do vnto thy neighbour as thou wouldest be done to, in lendynge in hel­pynge and in counsaylynge. And thou grauntest thy selfe, that it is no reason, that thou shouldest leaue thy frende or neighbour in daunger. Ther­fore yf thou haue it, Vt supra clare. and doest it not, then art thou an vnmer­cifull Turke, and doest against God, against christian charite, (Impos­sible) Dec. Ne­mo potest de Reg. Jur. inui l. impossibil. ff. cod tit. and against thyne owne cons­cience. But if thou haue it not, and arte not able to do it, then doth neither God nor yet the worlde compel the to it, For to thynges impossible is no man [Page] bounde. Paraduenture thou wilt saye, I haue it well, and coulde also do it (thanked bee God) but not without my hin­deraunce, for I haue nede of it my selfe. Alas good Neuerful, canst thou do it, and canst also not do it? If so muche losse en­sue thereof vnto the, because that paraduenture thyne occupienge is but slender, and may not beare the lacke of so muche money without the hurte of thyne occupienge and liuinge, why saiest thou then that thou canst not do it? For thou oughtest to saye I woulde be gladly do it, but I am nedy my selfe, I must kepe my wyfe and chyl­dren, and prouide for thē fode and other necessaryes as the Lorde hath commaunded me, wherfore I can not do it. If it [Page] be so that one must nedes suf­fre penury, In this casis. [...]l [...]asnon sint discrimine. i. Iohn. iij. Eccl. xxix et sup. satis. let hym suffre it vnto whome God hath sent it. Trueth it is that one Christen man is boūde to helpe another bothe with his body and goo­des, howe be it the necessite is not here so greate. Besides this, y ^u hast perchaūce brought thy self into the breers, so that it is thine owne doinge. Thou mightest haue occupied a whi­le by the hundred wel ynough vntill the thousande had bene growen. But thou wouldest haue fyue corners of the sacke, where thou myghtest fulwell haue bene content with foure, as other do is ones. Wherfore if thy Creditour haue trusted the with muche and that tho­rough couetousnes, and besy­des that paraduenture hath [Page] deliuered y ^e naughty olde, rot­ten, and deceyuable wares, & peraduenture also to dere, let him care howe he may be paid of the. And let hym take this for his punishement, that thou art not able nowe to paye him. If any man haue hindered the with his naughty and enhaū ­ced wares, let hym take parte with the, and receyue accor­ding to his deseruing. If some vsurer haue sucte the vp, then hath he already all that thou wast able to do, wherefore he maye take his amendes in his owne handes. Thou wilt saye I am be giled enhaūced, or eatē vp with vsury, and yet must I beare the burthen, for he wilbe payde, and putteth me to trouble & losse. Hast thou not heard what I haue tolde the? If so [Page] be (I saye) that y ^u hast brought the selfe into y ^e breers through thyne owne couetousnes, or by negligence, slouthfulnes, rio­tinge or playenge, then arte thou serued wel ynough, accordynge to thy deseruyng. Why dydest thou not occupie after thyne habilite? If thou seest that it is to dere for the, & that the vsury putteth the to hyn­deraunce, why doest thou not ordre thy self therafter? Thou wilt saye, I would fayne gette somewhat as well as other, & would faine also go with other mē. Alas good fellowe, runne thou with thē as farre as thou canst. But I would rather go faire & softely, thynkynge that of sufferaunce commeth ease. What profite is it for the, to get a quarter of meale whiche [Page] perchaunce will yelde the .xxx or .xl. fayre housholde loues when scant one of thē is thyne owne? And the rest belonging to thy creditours or lēders, to thy destroyers and robbers the vsurers? Should I nowe abate my lyuinge for thy sake? Truely I can not do it. But if so be, that thou hast had any mischaunce without thy deseruynge, shewe it vnto the ma­gistrates whāsoeuer thou arte sued, and let those ryche Cob­bes haue pacience with the, it can lesse hurte them then the. Lo thus myght a man knowe that thou canst not do it, and nedest not to say that thou cāst do it wel ynough, but not with out thyne hynderaūce. Wher­fore I saye, if thou canst not do it why sayest thou then that [Page] thou canst do it? And agayne, if thou canst do it, why sayest thou then that thou canst not do it? If thyne occupienge be so greate that thyne gaynes cō tinue neuertheles after a reasonable fashion, although thou shuldest kepe backe from it .xx. or .xxx. poundes, why art thou then such an helles mouth and neuer full, that thou wilt not helpe thy frende or neyghbour with all. Howe knowest thou whether they woulde haue tourned the to good lucke or to losse though thou haddest bestowed them? Howe can tell whether God will not prosper the so muche the better with the reste? For he will leaue no good dede vnrewarded. So­me peraduenture wyll saye, I haue holpen, counsaylled and [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] geuen many a good fellowe, & I am neuer the rycher for it. Prou. xxi But howe knowest thou what thou shouldest be yf thou had­dest not done it? Accor­ding as it is written▪ whosoeuer stoppeth his eare at the crieng of the poore he shal crye hymselfe and not be heard. Thou mygh­test as soone haue fallen in po­uertie, as continued in thyne estate. Wilt thou make God a lyar? Hath not he sayde that he will not leaue a draught of colde water vnrewarded? Beleue surely that if thou lende thy neighbour the odde of .xx. poundes or whatsoeuer it be that thou maiest forbeare with out losse and hynderaunce of thy necessary lyuinge, quimisere tur pauperi fenera­tur dnō. God wil not leaue it vnrewarded, and thou shalt prosper so much the better with the rest, yea thou shalt gette more at the lordes hande by lendynge vpon vsu­ry vnto hym after this sorte, [Page] then by bestowynge foure ty­mes as much more in any kind of marchaundise. Prou. xix For it is written, he that hath pitie vpon the pore, lendeth vpon vsury vnto the lorde: And looke what he layeth out it shalbe payde hym agayne. What knowest thou whence prosperite commeth or aduersite? Or wherefore the one cōmeth and not the other? Therefore I saye, why sayest thou that thou canst do it and yet canst not do it? If thou cāst not do it, as hath bene sayde, why doest thou saye it then? yf thou canst do it, as nowe hath bene sayde, why doest thou thē denye it?

In dede Pasquill, it is true, as thou sayest. No man kno­weth wherfore he hath prosperite [Page] or aduersite. If a man be not able to lende, then he can not do it: But yf he maye do it without any special losse or hinderaūce, I beleue that he doth to hym selfe more hurte then good. For as thou hast sayde, God wyll not leaue any good dede vnrewarded, nor any wicked dede vnpunyshed, neyther doth any man knowe, whence prosperite or aduersite happe­neth vnto hym in hys occu­pienge. Although I thynke in my minde that I maye gayne, and also do gayn a great deale with the ouerplus of my mo­ney, yet do not I knowe what lucke or prosperite I might haue had, yf I had lent it to yon­der nedy persone. And where as some wil saye, I had rather a lyttel birde in my hande thē [Page] a greate many flyenge in the woodes: This is an heathe­nysshe sayenge, for there God is not trusted, but made a lyar, wherfore a christen man ought to be ashamed of suche communicacions. Yea and I thynke it mete also and good reason, to take hede vnto whome we lende and truste, what nede he hath, whence it procedeth, and that a yonge beginner occupye wysely and circumspectely, vn­tyll he be better at ease: And that he do rather seke to gette a pece of breade for hym selfe, then a great deale for another, that kenneth hym no thanke for it, and suffereth hym to ta­ke greate care sorowe and paynes for it. But yet I must aske one thynge more.

If I were a great occupier, [Page] or els some ryche man, hauing muche rusty money lyenge by me: And a good fellowe came to me, and sayde I praye the lende me .xl. markes, or a cer­tayn summe of money, I may haue a bargayne, whereby I maye gette thus muche or so muche. Or I put case, that he maye gette thryse as much by it, as geueth me, thynkest thou that I might not also lawfully take a reasonable rewarde?

He must I aske the another question, it is not vnknowen to all occupiers, howe vnstable and vncertayne the trades of byenge and sellyng are for the moste parte in so muche that a man may so sone misse as hitte, and maye as sone lose by a bar game as gette by it. Yea there [Page] may sone happen a mischaunce or some other casualtie vpō it, that a man maye as soone get the scratchinge behynde hys eare, as the ryngynge in hys purse. Wherfore I say, if thou haddest lent a mā some money in suche wyse as thou hast de­maunded, and he should gette some mischaunce, that his wa­res did peryshe, or that his money were stolen, & that he were robbed, or that the price of that wares dyd fall, or were enda­maged some other waye suffe­rynge losse either in the head summe, or elles in his gaynes▪ wouldest thou then beare any losse with hym? wouldest thou be content then to abate some thynge of thy head money, or elles of thy lucre?

No mary I, who woulde counsayll me that? He came to me, and prayed me, & besydes this he him selfe offered me su­che gaynes without any as­kynge, so that I haue lent him my money at his owne request and desyre, without any com­pulsion or constraining: Wherfore then shoulde I suffre any abatement of my money, seyng I myght haue kept it when I had it?

Lo there arte thou caught in thyne owne snare, as tricke as can be possible. If the mo­ney be lent which thou hast de­lyuered to a good fellowe, whē ce commeth then the odde mo­ney, or gaines? I am sure thou hast hearde aboue sufficiently what lendinge is, and Doctor [Page] Luther hath tolde it the yet more clearer, where he sayeth: Lending is this, when I deli­uer my money, goodes or stuffe to any man, to occupye it as longe as he hath nede of it, or as longe as I can and wyl for­beare it, that he maye rēdre the same to me agayne in due sea­son, as good as I lent it hym, euen as one neighbour lēdeth to another, disshes pottes, pannes, beddinges, clothes, and in lyke maner money, or money worth. Hec ille. Nowe if it be lent, or called lendyng, whence commeth then this vsurye? For whatsoeuer is taken more is called vsury in al the lawes. If so bee that thou takest any thynge for it, then is it not cal­led lendyng, but lettinge, ther­fore can it be no lendyng. Also [Page] thou doest it not for to succour or to profite hym by thy len­ding, but thou doest it for thine owne cōmodite, for thyne own lukers sake, for els y ^u wouldest let hym go by well ynough.

Nowe if it be no lendynge, as in dede it can not be, forso­muche as lendynge is a Chri­stian dede of charitie, but this is a deade of auarice, what shoulde it be then? Shoulde it be called occupienge? or bar­gayninge? yea forsothe. What hast thou then layde in with hym, thou thy money and he his labour vpon this condiciō, that the gaynes or losse com­minge of the same shalbe equally diuided betwene you, or is there any certayne gaines and losse named & agreed betwene you? No. We be agreed vpō a [Page] certayne gaynes, and that I shall haue my head money a­gaine whole and sounde, & not vpon any losse. Whether he do wynne or lose, I wyll haue my gaynes vndminyshed, and also my head money agayne whole and sounde. Sayest thou so? thā art thou in the right way, Ironice. and here doth it appeare what thou arte. This is euen the fa­shion of all stoole robbers. For thou sittest at home behynde the ouen tournyng the apples and peares for burnynge, and thy money is assured or pled­ged (for an vsurer is very sel­dome so neglygent that he wil open his hād, except he knowe where to be sure of his money agayne) So that it is as good as though it laye styll at home in thy cubborde. In somuche [Page] that neither thou, nor thy mo­ney sustayneth any losse, feare, labour nor paynes. Where as yonder poore soule must beare suffre and take, runnynge, and catchinge, care, paynes, feare, losse and sorrowe. Yea he must take more care and thoughte, for thy lukers sake, & enhaūce his wares and deceiue the people more for thy sake, then for his owne sake. If he might ha­ue his owne gaynes, whereby he myght haue a competent li­uinge, he myght be at rest, but now must he first take thought for thy liuinge. And although he should lose al his owne gai­nes, yet must he take thought neuertheles for thyne, for thou wylt in no wyse lacke it. Al­though he haue had losse in his occupienge, yet comest thou & [Page] wylt haue thy full gaynes and head money. If he haue it not, thou puttest hym to trouble & hynderaunce. But if he winne and gette by his occupienge, then hath he wonne and gotē it for the, and thou spoilest and robbest hym of hys labour, ca­re, feare, sorowe and sweate, & yet wylt haue this called len­dynge, and wylt take it with a good conscience. Should this be called a fellowshyppe, or bargayninge? yea it is a rauening and theuyshe felloweshippe, Cassi. in l. sinon fue­rit. ff. pro Socio. as the lawes do call it. Therfore can this thy lendyng (if I may so calle it) be no more called a felloweshippe or bargaynyng, that it maye be called lending.

What is it then? Mary vsury & robbery is it, as thou hast nowe sufficiently hearde and [Page] as all men perpende and per­ceyue ryght well. For thou stealest and robbest him of hys paynefull sweate and labour, as it hath bene sayde.

Thou wilt haue all thinges so plainely and exactely discus­sed, that nothynge shall escape the. But howe thynkest thou by this yf I shoulde lende my money to a man and suffre him to haue the occupienge of it v­pon this condicion, that if he gotte ought I woulde take parte with hym. If not, I woulde take my heade money agayne, and be content.

Instit. de Soci et. § nam et itaSuche Contractes are not reproued in the temporall la­wes, but are left as indifferēt. [Page] Howe be it, when the gaynes shoulde be parted, then all the costes and charges ought to be deducted from thē, and then ought the resydue of the gay­nes to be diuined, & this might be borne, for he may bring that thynge to passe with thy mo­ney, which otherwise he could not haue done. But what, and if he do not onely winne no­thyng, but also suffereth losse?

Whether he wynne or lose, I haue nought to do withall. If he wynne, I will haue halfe part, or a certayn summe apointed betwene vs. If he wynne nothinge, or elles be a loser, I will haue my head money har­meles, and without any losse.

This is a good neighbour­ly touche. Thou wylt loke for gaynes, but thou wilt beare no losse. Is thy money better and more precious, then his body and lyfe? Was the money ma­de for mans sake, or mā for mo­neys sake? If it be a fellowe­shippe, there must an equal proportiō be kept, and not the one to stande to the gaynes onely, and the other to y ^e losse alone. Yea thou with thy money ou­ghtest rather to the losse then he with his body. For thou mayest gette other money, but he can not gette another body, nor yet his health so easely, yf he chaūce to be beatē, or other­wyse to be diseased for takyng of thought or feare or suche li­ke. And albeit that the lawes in this case do graunte, that he [Page] shall kepe touche with the ac­cordinge to his promise, yet do not they speake it because they prayse or allowe suche felloweshippe (for they call it playne robberye, and a theuyshe fello­shyppe as hath bene declared aboue) but because he hath made a promise, whiche he ought to kepe. And because no man shoulde lyghtely presume to breake his promyse. If a man maye sell all his goodes, Vid. Institutistas d. §. nam & ita. In­st. de So▪ etc. rygh­tes titels and interestes of the same, accordinge as the case requireth, why shoulde it not be lawful for him also to make su­che a cōtract as this is? Wherfore if he do make it, why shuld he not kepe it? But this clause woulde do very wel by it, that he did it with his owne good wyll. For I feare least he haue [Page] done it against his wyl, and haue bene compelled to do it for the obtayninge of thy money. So that it be therfore turned agayne into violence, and rob­bery. If he haue done it with his good will, it is reason that he kepe it, and if he haue bene constrained to do it, not tho­rough any compulsion, but for his lukers and profites sake, then must he nedes stande to it and kepe it. But take thou hede howe thy conscience is in quiete. Thou biest of him with thy money his sweate and la­boure. If thou wilt perpende the matter accordingly, thou shalt fynde whether thou couldest be content thy self to be so dealth withall, or not. Bothe the spirituall lawe and also the temporall lawe concludeth by [Page] the lawe of nature, y ^t he which wil haue profite and cōmodite, must also beare parte of heaui­nes. Wherfore yf thou wilt haue gaynes, then must thou also abide the daunger of it, or els it is but more vsurye and rob­berye. But this were honest, if thou wouldest lende a manthy money, or put it into his han­des, and saye, my frende, occupie this with all diligence possible, doynge thyne endeuour to the vttermoste of thy pouer, yf thou gette ought with it, then will I haue thus muche of the gaynes accordinge to the pro­portiō of y ^e summe. If thou get nothynge, then will I gette nothynge. But if thou be a loser by it, and the faulte be in the, beare it alone. But if the faulte be not in the, & that some mis­rfotune [Page] or other casualtie hap­pē vnto it, thē wil I beare part agayne of the losse. For if thou wilt beare no losse nor stande in any daunger at all, what is it elles but vsurye whatsoeuer thou takest more thē thou hast lent? What is suche a contract elles but a putting furth of thy money for a certayne aduaun­tage, as other vsurers do? yea & although thou adde vnto it, if he get nought, I get nought also, yet doest thou hope for v­sury & that is vsury, although it be somewhat more honest & clenlyer.

What and if I shoulde take somuche the lesse gaynes to thintent that he shoulde beare the losse alone, yf any misfor­tune [Page] shoulde chaunce?

Of this hast thou hearde a­boue. Whatsoeuer thou takest, if thou stande in no daūger, but sittest at home in thy chyer, or if thy money be assured vnto y ^t then is thy money lent vpon vsury. For all be it that a mans labour and paynes maye be re­compenced with money, yet are not all thinges cleare, al­though it be done here after a sorte, for thou hast a dissembler in thy bosome, called Auarice, whiche resisteth the strongely. If thou do paye hym for hys paynes, sorowe and care, inde­de then I let it passe. But if thou do it not, thou art an vsurer. But howe canst thou bye of a man his fortune, and paye him for his chaūces or mischaū ces [Page] which neither thou nor he knoweth as yet? He maye promyse it the and if he do, he must perfourme it, but cōsidre thou the case and iudge in thy con­science whether thou wouldest thinke it good reason, yf the ly­ke shuld chaunce vnto the. He must nedes kepe touche because of his promise by the vertue of the contracte, But knowest thou not that a strayght lawe is oftentymes tourned into a large wronge? And that to sharpe causeth oftē many gap­pes? As Doctor Luthers wordes do sounde. Therefore I saye, it is very straunge and also very daungerous for thy cō science to occupie after that sorte. Howe be it thou mygh­test make suche a cōtracte and also kepe it vntill thou sawest [Page] some misfortune, but thou ma­yest be no dissembler as hath bene often sayde. If thou wilt be an vsurer, thou mayest here brynge it to passe well ynough without correction of the hyer powers. But God is a rygh­teous iudge.

Truely Pasquill, thou hast layde suche a foundacion, that whosoeuer then buyldest theron must stande. Thou hast ge­uen me instruction out of the lawes, what vsurye is, (Desi­red.) quiae spes & expectatio lucri facit Vsurariū. de si faenera­ueris 14. q. 3. ex de Vsuris c. Constituit name­ly, whatsoeuer is desyred or taken aboue the head summe, makyng no maner exception, thē where there is auenture or la­bour concurring. Whatsoeuer I do obiecte, there is no case so straunge, but it maye be iud­ged thereafter. For thou hast [Page] layde by it a good pair of balaū ces, namely the conscience. He that wylbe an vsurer, maye do it, neither is it possible for the magistrates so narrowely to loke vpon it, that all practises and subtelties shoulde be left.

But he that wilbe good, and no vsurer, maye by this our cō munication, take a sufficient instruction.

In dede it is cleare & plaine ynough for hym that wyll see, marke, and receyue, and wyll amende his lyfe.

Verely it is a piteous case to se that this enormitie is so generall. But I praye the tell me one thynge, I haue sufficiently perceyued by the [Page] scriptures of God and also by the constitucions of mannes lawes, that it is forbidden, but is there any paine or penaltie prescribed.

Askest thou yet whether there be any penaltie prescri­bed or not? thinkest thou that although there were no payne at all named, that thou nede­dest not to feare ynough, considerynge that thou hast heard so euidently and knowest so surely, y ^t it is bothe against God and against the hyer powers? Thou arte not ignoraunt I am sure, what he deserueth y ^e wittingly doth against the cō ­maundementes and manifest will of God. Thou knowest it I saye, yf thou wouldest beleue it. But beholde I wyll name [Page] the saide punyshementes and paynes vnto the.

The Emperours Maiestie hath concluded and commaunded by thaduise and will of the whole Empire in the parlia­ment holden at Ausburgh in the yere of our lord .MD.xxx That no maner contracte participatinge or hauinge any fel­loweshippe with vsury should be admitted & also that all the same should be taken as voyde and of none effecte. And that if any man dyd make or vse a­ny suche contracte shoulde for­fait to his magistrate y ^e fourth parte of his head summe with out redemption, and should al­so be punyshed. Lo this is but a money payne But howe, and if I proue vnto the that an vsurer is a robber? For whatsoe­uer [Page] is taken from any man vn­deserued against his will, the same is robbery. But the vsu­rers take a mans goodes or money from hym by compul­sion against his wyll, therfore are they robbers. That they do compel a man to geue them his money and take it by vio­lence is manifest, for the poore man is loth to do it, and yet he can not chuse, but must do it for the vsurers do compel hym to it, and not his nede. His nede compelleth hym to borrowe. Nowe he might borrowe well ynough (as pertainynge to his wyll) without paynge any vsurye, yea and he woulde also do it fulfayne. But then commeth the vsurer and compelleth him to the geuing of vsury, and violently taketh his goodes from [Page] hym. Nede constrayneth hym to borrowe, and this is no lesse to hym, but vsury putteth him to losse. For yf he will borrowe he doth it of necessite, but the vsurer compelleth hym to ge­ue money for it, Iesus Sprach calleth suche fello­wes murtherers, and not worthy to kepe cōpany with christen men not by playne and manifest violence, but by subtell meanes and necessities. Therfore is an vsurer a rob­ber, as thou hast hearde aboue, and is also worthy to haue a robbers punyshement. Item an vsurer is a thefe, wherfore he hath deserued hangynge. That he is a thefe is manifest by the dede, as hereafter apea­reth playnely in the vsurers confession. Wherfore he is worthy also to haue the punyshe­ment of a thefe. Therfore yf he be lyke vnto them both, as he is in dede, than is he also [Page] accursed and not worthy to eate or to drynke with any ho­nest man: And these are the punyshementes of the temporall lawes. De Vsu­ris in ut etc. The ecclesiasticall la­wes sayeth y ^t an vsurer ought not be buried with & as other Christen men, vntyll he haue made restitucion of al thynges gotten by the waye of vsurye. And that although he shoulde commaunde his executours in his dead bedde to do the same, yet ought he to remayne vn­buried, or not to be buried by & as other Christen men, vntil it were done in dede or elles sufficient assuraunce were made cō cernyng the same. The same lawe shewed also howe, when and howe farre the same resti­tucion must be made, namely as farre as all hys goodes ex­tende. [Page] But I feare that this wil not so sodēly come to passe. Also a mans owne conscience doth sufficiently instructe him, and it is sufficient that the vsurer knoweth, y ^t he is not wor­thy buried by other Christen men, before he haue made restitucion of al, wherfore I thinke it not necessary here to be spokē at this time. Furthermore the ecclesiasticall lawes wil that no vsurer should be absolued nor admitted to beare witnes in a­ny matter, nor make any testa­ment or last wil, nor suffered to haue any fellowshyppe with other Christians, C. quia in omnib. ex de Vsuris C. Prete­rea ex de Vsuris. Glos. in de. si quis. in the vse of the sacramētes or otherwyse. But shuld be excōmunicated & accursed out of al Christen fel­lowshippes, and here is he ma­de a thefe and a robber. Lo, is [Page] not this also shame ynough? Is not this punyshement, of the ecclesiasticall lawes suffi­ent?

But what is the punyshmēt of God? Euen hell syre, and e­uerlastinge damnation. For it is euident ynough that whosoeuer doth wittingly agaynst his sonne Iesus Christe, and against his holy worde, and besydes that against the hier po­wers, becommeth no Archaū ­gell, but perpetual kynsman of the deuill in hell fyre, as it is taught in diuers places of ho­ly scriptur. Nowe is it certain and sure, that an vsurer dothe wittingly against all these, as hath bene sufficiently declared aboue both out of holy scriptur and also out of the lawes both temporall & also ecclesiasticall, [Page] wherefore there is no doubte, but he goeth after this lyfe strayght waye to the deuill. What sayeth the lorde by the mouthe of the Prophete Eze­chiell? Ezec. 18 If any man lende vpon vsury and take more ouer, Ezec. xxij shal he lyue? He that will not be mo­ued by this text, onely v­pon hym is all la­bour lost for y ^e de­uill hath surely taken hym bodely & blynded him with couetousnes. He shall not lyue, but shall dye, and his bloude shal be vpon hym, saith the lord. And agayne, thou hast taken vsury and increace, thou hast oppres­sed thy neyghbours by extor­cion, and forgottē me saith the lorde God. Behold I haue smiten my handes vpon thy coue­tousnes that thou hast vsed. Is thy harte able to endure it, or may thy handes defende them selues in the tyme that I shall brynge vpon the? Euen I the lorde that spake it will bring it also to passe. I wyll scatter the [Page] amonge heathen & strowe the about in the landes and wyll cause thy fylthines to cease out of the: yea and I will haue the possessiō in the sight of the Heathen, that thou mayest knowe that I am the lorde. Lo if God be so wroth with his owne chosen people for vsuries and couetousnes sake threateninge thē with so cruell punyshemente what shall happen vnto the be­inge a straunger? By this ma­yest thou perceiue easely what punishement God hath ordey­ned for vsurers, namely, hell fyre, and euerlastyng payne, as thou hast hearde playnely.

Of a trueth Pasquill, thou makest me to sweate. For after this maner should be nothyng worse, nor more pernicious [Page] more execrable, detestable and synful then an vsurer. In dede it is cleare and manifest that vsury is against the lawe of nature, the lawe of God written, and against the lawes both tē ­porall and ecclesiasticall. Thou hast also partely rehersed vnto me the punishementes belon­ginge to the same. Insomuche that a man might be afraied of an vsurer, neither were it any maruail though mendid spitte at hym in the stretes. If the lawes take an vsurer for a mur­therer a robber, a thefe, a vilay­ne, and a damnable persone, as it is manifest by the scripture & also by the lawes. A mā might rather haue to do with a Tur­ke, and a Panyme then with a great vsurer. But thou saidest euen now, that they ought not [Page] to be buryed among other christians, where shoulde they be­come then?

Knowest thou not this pro­uerbe, Similis similē sibi que­rit. Lyke wyll to lyke sayd the deuill to the Coiller, for they were both black. The lord cal­leth them in Ezechiel extorcio­ners, wherfor it is not against their dignitie to be buried a­monge theues & robbers. For seyng they are not worthy to lye amonge other Christians, they must nedes be layde in so­me place agreinge to their qualities.

Pasquil it were no maruail though one did despayre. I haue gotten many a fayre penny [Page] by vsury, yet woulde I neuer haue thought, that it had bene so great a synne, and suche an heathenyshe, vngodly execra­ble and damnable thyng. I ha­ue serued many one vnder the pretence of frenshyp, that he hath afterwardes felt it full well doubteles, and haue vn­der the pretence of a gifte suc­ked many a mans sweate.

When I lent a man my money I lent it hym but from one fayre to another, and whan I to­ke hym the money, I deducted the encrease before hande, and made hym to seale me an obli­gacion for the hole summe, as though I had lent hym so mu­che and he was bounde to ren­dre me no lesse, so that no man founde any vsury nor increasse in my writynges. For I had [Page] receyued it afore hande. And thys dyd I from one fayre to another. For if I shoulde haue lent it hym for the space of an hole yere, an should haue required so muche at one tyme, it should haue had some apearaū ce of vsury. Wherfore I take it thryse, or foure tymes a yere, & alwayes as muche in a maner as men were wont to take for an whole yere. Nowe yf I ca­me into the fayre and required my money, my debter was bounde to pay it me: yf then he had so muche nede of it that I might perceiue it, then was he fayne to grease my hande, yea many one hath ben compelled to geue it me againe, y ^t I kept it but one daye, least he should haue bene suspected, and then I lent it hym agayne as I dyd [Page] before. Somtyme I dyd set hym a daye after the fayre, not past a fourtenight or three or foure wekes at the moste, and where as he was bounde afore to paye me nobles, he was boū de at that daye to paye me an­gellottes. And then I lēt hym my money agayne, as before. So that I haue oftentymes made thyrty of the hundred or rather more. Yea often haue I lent in suche wyse that my det­ter was not excused with forty crownes in a yere, & yet coulde I make it a pretence and appearaunce of frenshyppe, amitie & loue, as suche my practises of bad & good money are almost knowen to all the worlde, and also partely set in printe, if amā would loke ouer al the bookes that of late haue bene written [Page] against vsury, as the two boo­kes of Doctor Martyn Luther, the one of marchaundise and vsury, and the other to the Curates and Pastours, of vsury, the boke of doctor Hepium vpon the .xv. Psalme, the boke of doctor Iames schenken of the couetousnes of Iudas, the boke of Iohn Spangenbergh of almose and others, and also this our communication. So y ^t it were no maruayll, though an vsurer shoulde dispayre, & hange hym selfe by the necke, or that an other man shoulde spitte al vsurers in their faces. Whiche in dede Pasquill gre­ueth my very sore, not kno­wing howe to behaue my selfe. I am afrayd truely that I shal neuer come to God. So much do I fele already.

Ah good fellowe what speakest thou of thy grefe? Ezech. XViij. yf thou wilt be good, if thou wilt be sa­ued returne. Saieth not the lorde, turne and ye shal liue? If thy grefe be so greate, then re­turne, rendre agayn that thou hast stolen, and be a good man, & God wilbe merciful vnto y ^e.

Alas Pasquil I would ceasse with a good will, but the rendrynge agayne is to harde.

Aha, I thought as muche, that it was but a fayned repentaunce thou arte afrayde, & be­cause of that feare doest thou repente. But thou kepest fast y ^e goodes of vsury, & lettest the feare passe, yea y ^e goodes are in [Page] thy waye, so that thou cāst not passeouer thē. Well then get y ^e hence to the deuill in the name of al deuils. And there an end. I can no lōger talke with the, For all is but labour lost. Yet will I in time conuenient ones more geue to the vsurers a bō ­del of roddes, yf God lende me witte and discrecion. Thou knowest that I haue had this my communication with the vnaduisedly, in hast, which not withstāding I wil also setfurth to thintent that thou and thy frendes maye haue something to passe the tyme withall. And it shalbe geuen to the and all vsurers for a breakefast, vntill by the grace of God, it shall be a­mended in ty­me conue­nient.