CHAP. I. The Libellers malice, pride, fraud, and fol­ly detected.

WHat, honest Nick! Wel­come into Sheppy. How fares the noble Knight, and all the true Trojans at home?

I thanke God Sir, all well. My Master remembers his loue to your Worship, to you Master Vicar, and to all his friends in these parts.

We are much bound to him for his kinde remembrance; but I wonder what winde driues you [Page 2] hither? we may strew greene rushes for you; I thinke you were neuer heere since Master Maior tooke his oath.

Sir, you are in the right, but such trouble­some guests come soone enough, like foule weather, before they be sent for.

Nay say not so Nick, the worst dogge in your masters house cannot come vnwelcome to Queen­borough.

That's more of your kindnesse then our merit; but I pray you what's the reason the bowling greene is so emptie vpon so faire a day?

Why man, there is a great Faire at Sitting­burne, thither they are all gone, tag, rag, and long-taile.

Then I feare I am come at an ill time.

Why so?

My master hath sent me for the pyde nagge, hee would haue him runne in Iames parke, lest hee spoile himselfe this drie season: besides, I haue ap­pointed the Smith to bee heere in the afternoone. Now if the Castle-keeper bee gone to buy Hobby-horses too, I am in a faire case.

To put you out of doubt, vpon my know­ledge he is ridde out, more then an houre and a halfe since.

Then it is likely to be darke night before he finde the way home.

Assure your selfe of that; it is a forfeit for a Sheppy-man to come from a Faire till Sunne set.

See the ill lucke; and the worst is, I know [Page 3] not how to spend the time all this liue-long day.

As if I haue not a good dish of Oysters, and a cold pye at home to hold you tacke.

Many thankes good Master Maior: but in very deed I brake my fast so well with our old Gar­diner at Vpberry before I came out, that I shall haue little mawe to any meate till night.

Then what will you doe?

On my little honestie I know not, vnlesse some good bodie would lende mee a Play-booke to make my worship laugh.

Faith Nick I doe not remember any such in my custodie, but our Searcher lent me a merry book which came to his hands the last weeke.

Sir, you meane that squibbing pamphlet against Sir Edward Hoby, which I borrowed of you yesterday morning.

The very same: I would you would take the paines to fetch it.

That labour shall be saued, we neuer parted companies since we met.

Now if you bee kinde gentlemen, let vs sit downe yonder, vpon Secretum & silentium magis disputationibus conuenit, ne ser­mo interp [...]ll [...]tur a tanta vltro ci­tro (que) cunt [...]um hominum & fre­quent [...] & sire­pitu. Pennylesse Bench, and sur­uey it.

Agreed; for I thinke wee shall haue no bo­die in hast come to trouble vs.

What may the title of the booke bee? and who is the Author?

He may be Nicholas nemo, for ought I know, he discouers himselfe only by the marke of Conscia splen­d [...]nt [...]in formi­dat noctua so­lem. I. R.

I dare lay a good wager it is that Ishmael [Page 4] Rabshacheh, whom my Master so hampred in his Coū ­ter-snarle: my minde giues me it is the same Gurgullio, whose late arriuall makes him so much merriment.

Not vnlike: hee hath wonne the spurres for an arch-rayler. The most rauing, and brauing Paf-quil that euer I read. Had he gotten any prize by his last worke, you should haue now seene him out of his maskers sute: he stands close behinde his picture: if it passe currant, he will then peepe out, otherwise he will hide his head in a Bench-hole.

But is this the fashion of professed Illi saciem velant qui se pu­denda dicere cognoscunt, fa­tentur se non di­cenda dicere. Laur. Val. de volupt. lib. 3. Di­uines, to broach Positions which they dare not justi­fie with the subscription of their names, and being namelesse themselues, to perbreake persons of note.

Doe you wonder at that? As if old purse-takers will present themselues in their owne likenes without vizards, and scarfes.

Indeede that were the next way to the Gallowes; but surely this kinde of cunning ioy­ned with so great scurrility (which in my little view I discouered) would make me shrewdly suspect their Non sic Phi­dias qui clypeo Mineruae ima­ginem suam in­sculpsit. sinceritie, who are so intemperate in their owne affections, and regardlesse of better mens credits.

This is the Catholike charitie, and soule-gaining patience practised now adayes; but he is not without his shifts. That he concealeth his name, it is his Page 26. humilitie, as regardlesse of worldly respects. That hee is so tarte, it proceedeth from his zeale of the cause, not any hatred of the person.

In my opinion he needs not feare any great applause▪ for the extraordinary skil of his work. T'is [Page 5] well if he scape in this learned age without reproof· But to make zeale the Patron for his A trimme Minion, one of a merry scof­fing wit, Frier-like. Steph. Win­ton: against G. Ioy. page 2. personall trumps, is intollerable hypocrisie.

Could he shew any such sparkes of perso­nall disdaine, flying from Saint Augustines penne, there were yet some little hope, that hee hath at least a dramme of that Primitiue Spirit: but you shall heare how he contradicts himselfe. Preface Dedicatorie. Saint Augu­stine (saith he) did endeauour to curbe the motions of an­ger, seeking to ouercome his Aduersaries, not by returne of iniurious reproaches, to disgrace their persons, but by cleare Demonstrations of the victorious truth.

Then is hee as like Saint Augustine, as an Owle to an Iuie bush.

And could hee single out no body but my Master to make the Anuill of his malice? I doubt hee hath taken a wrong Sowe by the eare; if his coate be not swingd' well and thriftily, let me bee held for a sowced Gurnet.

Indeede it had beene the wiser way, first to haue beleguered the Castle which he formerly Mast. T. H. lost; and had not either vaine hope of a second voluntarie lapse, or necessarie feare of some foule discouerie, diuerted his force, hee would rather haue followed the chase of his olde prey. Well, hee is not vnlike to haue some hornets about his eares: But for Sir Ed­ward, hee hath passed his word to answere him with contempt.

Silence verily is fittest for a Gentleman of his place, vnlesse his aduersarie were of more worth then this Start-vp.

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I wonder in my heart what Ishmael meant to come vpon him with a fresh reply, hauing publike notice of his resolution.

This was it that animated him; the Knights Counters. pag. 68. Dormitabo secur'd his pen free passage without con­troll.

Nay, then I would my girdle might breake; seeing he will wake a sleeping Lyon, as long as I can hold a Currie-combe in my hand, I will ferret his sides till he crie Pag. 199. Flebo.

I perceiue thou art true bred; such a Whelp is fittest for this game: But how camest thou by thy Latin?

Faith, I waited on a yong Gentleman, at Oxford, some three, or foure yeares, where I got a few broken ends together, enough to patch Rabsh. his Cox-combe with a Sternigogulus.

On my soule thou art a merrie grigge. I would not for the price of a good Breake-fast haue wanted thy companie in the reuiew of this discourse.

Perhaps you will say so, by that time wee haue done; It shall goe hard if I find not Crotchets in this Beetle-head, to descant vpon his plaine song. But I long to heare the bookes name.

It is called Purgatories Doe not Owles har­bour in the Barne of his braine? Triumph ouer Hell.

What! Ishmael the Conqueror? O victo­rious Rabshacheh. In what pompe art thou led to the Capitoll?

Would you know how? his Charriot is drawne with foure grisly Anticques: Sophistrie, Scur­rilitie, Impudencie, and Hypocrisie, and attended with [Page 7] Falshood, Philosophie, Atheisme, and Idolatrie.

If he triumph after the old Roman maner, he must (for the gaining of applause) be very liberall in his gifts to the people.

Hee passeth for that of all that euer I knew. Here he flings a Rams horne, there a Tobacco pipe; here hee bestowes a Mendacium ridiculum & morione dignum Black-more Girle of his owne taking; there hee casts our Ladies Gloues. Asses are his ordina­rie fauours; and as for Wine, Suger, Honniè-sops, Greene Goslings, Cocatrices, Wood-cockes, Cockes egges, and Sal­lets, you would admire his lubberalitie.

Stop there good M. Vicar, Nickes teeth will water, if you talke of any more such Iunckets.

No not if hee gaue Quailes insteede of Wood-cockes; these dainterils haue layen so long vpon his hands, that I feare me they are scarce sweete.

His last Treatise, (if I be well aduised) where­in hee began to fling at the Knight, was Christned, The ouerthrow of the Protestants pulpit Babels.

The Ouerthrow? O Hercules! They must bee Bables indeed if he bee able to moue them. What a braue Lad is this, that dreames of nothing but O­uerthrowes, and Triumphs? No doubt hee rescued many Shauelings in this skirmish. Twas pittie hee was not in England when my Lord De la Ware vnder­tooke his voyage: Then should his Lordship haue had no neede to haue stood to the curtesie of the two Vniuersities. Rabshacheh alone would haue soon brought those poore Sauages, vnder the belt of his Discipline. But had he not great lucke (trow you) to scape Cerberus his fanges, comming so neere the con­fines of Hell?

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He complayneth that he met with a Preface. Cer­berus, meaning the Knights Counter-snarle, Which entertained him with an vnfriendly welcome, and salu­ted his pinnace with a peale of vnlouely termes.

And well worthie, for hee gaue the onset without a challenge, neither came he as a Merchant (according to his colourable pretence) with an Ibid. Oliue branch, towards the hauen of his fauour; but as a man of Warre with a flagge of defiance, to batter the in­vincible Fort of the Knights reputation.

Nay by your leaue, S ^r. Edward cast out his Gloue to any Letter to Mast. T. H. pag. 6. Romified Rennegado.

What was that to I. R.? what needed hee haue fought as the Popes Frustra fati­gando se nihil praeter odium quaerere, extre­mae est deme [...] ­tiae. Salust. Voluntarie, vnder those colours? Had he such interest in the Title, that hee could not forbeare the Claime?

As for that, it had beene pardonable, if in the confidence of his cause, hee had endeauoured to disable the Knights refutation of Purgatorie, by the Dint of argument: but to dart his Porcupine quills to blemish his credit, to snuffe at a Tobacco pipe, to iest with his sword, nay to make him a Pag. 49. 92. 127. Pedler to vent o­ther mens patches, as it argueth rather an aking tooth, then a religious minde, so is it able to driue Sobrietie her selfe into an Preface. arring passion.

Had the Cumaean Virgin, I meane Discretion, beene his guide in that journey; had the respect of the Knights honor, or desire of well-fare of his soule, beene superintendent in his thoughts, hee would haue found another way to the wood. 'Tis strange Rhe­torique to alienate his affections, whose Iudgments we labour to informe.

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Will you haue the right? I haue gotten the length of his foote. Prurit-anus Wilson sees that Ish­mael hath a Wind-mill in his head, therefore hee buzzeth in his eares to set the clapper a iogge, that so he may get a good Grist.

Had there not been some such pecuniary, or sinister ayme, I verily thinke Rabshacheh his pen had beene at a full period. Hee would haue accepted the Knights reasonable satisfaction, and endured a little showre, especially raised by the blustring windes of his owne distemper: hee would not haue prouoked the grimme Porter the second time, whom he found so fell at the first. Somewhat it is that makes him so bray in the eares of his supposed Cerberus, who was well contented to haue taken a nappe, and to let him passe without regard.

Yet would he make the world beleeue hee is so desirous of peace, that hee hath now out of the aboundance of his charity brought him a hony sop to stop his mouth. Mel in ore, verba lactu, fel in corde, fraus in factis.

Trust mee truly, hee comes ouer him with kindnesse; this hony was not fetched from the Bees hiue, but from the Aspes hole, more like to stir choller then to procure rest.

This tricke he learned in his passage of Cha­ron the Ferriman; to looke towards peace with his face, and rowe towards discord with his pen. He sets out the Preface. Oliue branch for a signe, but his vessels are full of gall and wormewood within.

If we may take his owne word in his owne worke, it is the gentle sound of a solid answere, Preface. It is a [Page 10] purgatory sallet to purge his prophane humours, made of fiue medicinable hearbs, wherein he hath powred the oyle of charitable exhortations, mingled with the vineger of sharpe reprehension, yet so sparingly that it cannot be dis­pleasing to his tast.

If hee had presented him with the iuice of Rue, and skymd hony, it had beene more proper for the dimnesse of his sight. It seemes he hath not been brought vp vnder an Apothecary, but rather in a Cookes shop, he is so cunning in dishing out this sau­cy Allegory.

What will ye say then to this? I haue done my best to This Allego­ry was beaten in the mortar of malice, with the pestle of his pestilent wit. Ouerth. p. 52. quench the fire which flashed from the bram­ble bush of your distempered thoughts, not with cold wa­ter of a dull deniall, nor with the oyle of sinners, which might increase the flame, by soothing you in your errour, but with wine and sugar. I hope you will not taxe this to be broken-winded.

I promise you an excellent close. Had my master such a Skull in his kitchin, that would quench the fire with wine and sugar, the Vintners and Gro­cers would soone share his lands: his Pag. 27. patrimony would then be in a dangerous consumption indeed.

Nick, you are somewhat too quicke, his ho­nest meaning is to bee accepted: yet if I haue any iudgement, hee is more elegant in one leafe of this booke▪ then in all the other he wrote before.

Marry hee may thanke Sir Edward for that, whose phrases are so interlaced throughout the whole discourse, that Rabshacheh his stile may seeme to haue put on her holli-day coate.

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This one thing I heard a Gentleman of good quality obserue, that hee hath an extraordinary gift in the retorting of conceipts: And withall protested that he thought Ishmael was begotten on the side of a hill, he so returns word for word like an Eccho.

The truth is, the poore man hath a very weake stomacke, hee casts vp whole periods as they went downe, without digestion or alteration.

If I were his Phisition, I would prescribe him a cup of wine and sugar next his heart, for what with his watching, weeping and Pag. 113. whipping, he hath a very bad stomacke, and a worse braine.

He ill deserues it, who measures other mens liquor, by the shallow panne of his owne wheeling skonce. If hee breake his fast with nymble-brained Wilson somewhat more liberally, hee strait fumbles in the mouth, and tumbles out a double Preface. foole in e­uery answere according to his simple folly.

He was not then mistaken that did Hierogli­phick him by the name of Rabshacheh, which vpō long search he hath found to signifie Pag. 34. Multum Ebrius: as much to say, as Cozen German to Floud the Ignatian, who hath in his time made more razling Indentures, then the best Scriuener in Doway or S ^t. Omers.

Yet as flustred as hee was, when his wench told him that he kissed like a Clowter, hee could text her with Labia Sacerdotis custodiunt sapientiam. And when shee pleaded that it went against her heart, he could protest by the faith of a Catholique, not to come within a Iust the length of a Tobacco Pipe. foote of her conscience.

It seemes indeed he speakes not by guesse [Page 12] like a Nouice, but as one beaten to the trade by ex­perimentall proofe, when he saith, I know that the cu­stome of men that are Pag. 56. tipled is, when they stagger them­selues, to thinke that Churches, and the very heauens ree [...]e about them. Marke how feelingly he speakes euen of the thought.

Let him be what he will, this is no fit Court to draw his Inditement: hee will trauerse it with an Appeale; Let vs rather heare how he bestirs himselfe for Purgatory.

Nay by your leaue Sir, his Apology tou­ching the exceptions in the Counter-snarle must haue the precedence. This hath he cunningly in his first chapter prefixed to a worke; by good probability, long studied, against the Knights first letter, some sixe yeares since directed to M ^r. T.H.

Bee it as it list: seeing wee are come as Au­ditors to sitte vpon his account, let vs first see his charge, and then his discharge.

Indeed equity her selfe cannot prescribe a more indifferent course then this. There is great reason your fiat should stand in these praecincts.

No doubt he hath placed a Lion in the fore-front to make the better way, for the Marshalling of his weaker and more heartlesse troopes.

If he haue the least dramme of Rhetoricall Chiualry, he will be sure to put the best Mallem exer­citum Ceruorum duce Leone, quā Leonum duce Ceruo. legge for­most.

You are both wide; in stead of a Lion, hee hath committed the conduct of his forces to Reynald the foxe, whom hee presents on his paper stage with [Page 13] a Target, to shield him from the imputation of vtte­ring any thing to the Knights reproach.

It must be a nimble Foxe that can shift off so many palpable wrongs; hee had neede haue his ioynts thoroughly annointed with the oyle of lea­zing.

Doubt you not that; his poynts are well tagg'd with fraud. And first, as if hee (good man) meant nothing but pure deuotion, hee deplores the hard hap of his infortunate treatise, in falling vpon so vndeserued misconstruction, wishing that the few lines which concerned the Knight, had beene read by him when he was fasting.

Hee were a wise man would loose a good Breakfast, for better repast then I could euer disco­uer in his Larder. It seemes his booke is somewhat a kinne to an Apothecaries drugge, which requires the attendance of an houre-glasse, and a Spanish seruicio. Hee that dares not but allow a certaine number of Psalms in our Ladies Psalter to be read after supper, is angry if his owne lines bee perused when a man hath dined. If there bee any such danger in taking his receits vpon a full stomack, he should haue done well to prescribe both diet and time.

Vndoubtedly hee hath a reference to the wine and sugar, mentioned in his Preface, which li­quor he saith the Knight loues well. This holy wa­ter runnes from his pen in such aboundance as if he had Bacchus his tunne for a Standish: hee dreames of no body but Pag. 94. Ennius, who in his merry veyne wrote more wise sentences, then euer issued from Rabsha­cheh [Page 14] his most sober thoughts; heerein he displayeth his folly, or rather his malice, in the highest degree. But the best is, he is like to purchase as much thanks of the iudicious Reader, by this his iniurious scan­dall, as Sophocles his vngracious Sonnes got by tradu­cing their old Father for a Quaes [...]it num ill [...]d carmen de­sip [...]ntis? Cato Maior. Dotard, and so vnfit for the management of his estate. The Knight is able to shew him more then a Tragedy to wipe away this blurre: where Malice is the prompter, you must ima­gine Impudency will deliuer a good euidence.

Math. 11.19. Ecce potator vini, Act. 2.13. [...] are no new inuentions, nor grounded truths: as if a Gen­tleman cannot drinke a cup of wine but hee must in­stantly be as wise as staring Iudic. 9.36. Gaal. The Knight is of an affable, and pleasant disposition, yet hee comes not alwaies vp to Hilary Tearme. Vlisses was no Plough-man, though once for a priuate end he fai­ned himselfe a Rusticke, and put his hands to the share. Cato was vpbraided for being all night in a Stapleton. Prompt. Moral. ta­uerne, but how did hee answere for himselfe? You should relate (quoth he) how many daies before I spent at my booke, and neuer budg'd out of my study.

Ishmael cannot heare with that eare: Hee should haue shewed more discretion in shaping his credulous Censures, according to the prescript of this direction; had he Itemd the lampe oyle, as well as hee summed the Spanish wine, his intruding curiosity would haue passed with lesse blame. Nemo omnibus horis sapit. Hee that is lumpish at his meales, will proue but a slug in his more serious affaires.

I am sure the old Frier was of your minde [Page 15] in this; for handling those words Iohn 2.3. Vinum non ha­bent, He made his diuision thus. Here is first vinum, ibi optimus liquor. Secondly, non habent, ibi pessimus clamor.

Gra-mercy Nick, I perceiue thou hast not left all thy Latine shreads at home. But I would gladly know what the Knight mistooke in the perusall of his discourse that he should be thus charged with an inconsiderate suruey.

The Knight (if you be remembred) tooke it in ill part that hee was taxed by the Cecropidan for want of learning, wit, valour, and conscience, as also with the surplussage of selfe-conceit.

And can hee either blame the acceptance, or deny the cause, which is yet extant vnder his own hand?

Yes, hee forsooth doth not simply dero­gate from the Knight in any of these, but compara­tiuely matching them together, giues the prece­dence, where he thinks he had most cause. I did Pag. 2. di­uide (saith he) the three degrees of comparison, betwixt your three most commendable qualities, Valour, Learning, Witte. I gaue the positiue to your valour; The compara­tiue I did assigne to your pen· To your wit I did reserue the superlatiue degree: my conceit did without fraude, sin­cerely aime at your praise. If I did Caecus non iu­dicat de colori­bus. preferre your wit & Learning before your Valour, you haue no iust cause of of­fence.

Were there no more but this, it is more then common Ciuility can well warrant; had hee not bin ill tutord hee might haue learned that comparisons [Page 16] are odious. Might not the Knights commendable qualities say vnto him, Quis te constituit iudicem inter nos? The question de primatu was not allowable a­mongst the Disciples. In this case 1. Regum. c. 3. v. 26. diuidatur, shewes little care of the whole. The Poet might haue in­formed him, Quae non prosunt singula, iuncta iuuant: he that hath but an vnce of each of those former pro­perties, wants not a graine of a worthy man. So that by sundring them he labours to lessen their esteem, and by disparaging that which he seemes to hold in highest regard, hee plainly nullifies the repute of the rest.

Hee that hath but halfe an eye, may easily perceiue his comparatiue praises, to be indeede pri­uatiue disgraces: as you may see by his Peiora nouis­sima primis. Comment vpon his owne text. For wheras he stiled the Knights booke an vnlearned Letter, he now explanes himselfe, that the want of Pag. 9. Philosophicall and Theologicall veri­ties occasioned that censure. Pag. 11. The learning (saith hee) with w [...]nt whereof I charged your Letter, is neither Per­nassian, nor Poeticall, nor Prophane, but Sacred, Holie and Deuine.

Is this the comparatiue degree wherewith hee dubs his pen? Est aliquid prodire tenus: seeing Rabsha­cheh will afford no more, tis well wee haue this. But such a Boone is not like long to be enioyed. I feare Rabshacheh repents himselfe already of his seeming bounty; For as if his pen had beene ouer lauish, hee doth interpret the Pernassian learning formerly ac­knowledged, to signifie Pag. 12. Fustian phrases, Pag. 15. nullity of iudgement without any mediocrity of Logicke, Pag. 13. a slippery [Page 17] veyne of writing, Pag. 36. impertinent and ridiculous annotati­ons, Pag. 12. language that must haue a Parliament to naturalize it, Pag. 16. witlesse cauils, Pag. 169. babbling able to make learned mens heads ake, Pag. 126. speech not so wise as the braying of Balaams Asse, Pag. 2. agaudy stile, Pag. 36. a head blanke without matter, defi­ling, nay Pag. 4. loading his margent withall manner of imperti­nent stuffe, as Pag. 35. vulgar sentences, Ibid. triuiall verses, Ibid. chil­dish authors, Pag. 127. reeling, tottering, and Pag. 35. ridiculous phra­ses, seruing only to wast inke and to blurre paper.

I promise you he hath mended the matter well, these milde censures are able to raise Pag. 2. fus of cho­ler. Is this the Pern [...]ssian Lawrell with which hee is content to crowne my Masters temples? Is this the tune which the Pag. 9. poeticall sisters sing in Apolloes quire? then may the gingling of my Curry-combe passe cur­rant for reasonable good melody. I easily beleeue hee went Ibid. young from Helicon, who can no better iudge of those Christall streames.

If a man should giue Floud this attribute, that he is Ibid. tam Philosophiae, quam theologiae peritus, which (bearing a double construction) may be warranted, albeit he haue beene scarce seasoned with the Prin­ciples of eyther Science, and so a Dullard in both: how could he but hold himselfe ill handled, if after­ward the same party should tell him that he shewed more foolery then Philosophy, more Dunsery then Diui­nity? But the best is, (as I heard the Knight once say) he makes no more reckoning of his praise, in giuing him that hee had not, then of his dispraise, in taking from him that he had; as hauing neither more nor lesse, for either of both.

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Yet this comes short of Rabshacheh his equi­uocating straine. For did hee sincerely ayme at the Knights praise in his grant of Pernassian learning, why doth hee then gainesay it in those his contradictory imputations? or did his mentall entendment seeke the disparagement of the Knights learning (as now the euent hath made apparant) to what ende then doth he protest the Pag. 2. sincerity of his good meaning? Why doth he labour to colour his former frumpe with a distinction of learning, yeilding the lesser arm of that tree to the Knight, and keeping the greater (as purchased by his long Pag. 9. s [...]dy and delight) to himselfe? whereas in fine he dispossesseth him of all, euen of the least leafe of the smallest branch.

Thus is the Foxe now vncased, his Preface. Flag of due respect, and dutifull affection, prooued to bee but the Ensigne of Subtilty: but I would gladly see vpon what ground he buildeth those his derogato­ry and disgracefull termes.

Forsooth he hath gotten the wind of an op­position betweene the Knights poetry▪ and his prose, and that in the first sentence of his Counter-snarle, which he produceth as a Pag. 10. perspectiue vnto the rest. He­resie (saith hee) hath in all ages contriued artificiall sha­dowes, which he iustifieth with this marginall verse. Arti­bus impietas ingeniosa caret? This Rabshacheh reading without an Intergatory saith, that the marginall Muse Ibid. gainsaith the text, whereas the argument is drawne ab impossibili, vizt. that it cannot be that witty Impie­ty should be to seeke of cunning conueighance, then which nothing can bee more sutable to the purpose. [Page 19] But admit there were no dash visible to his squinting eyes, besides the full poynt, yet might his wisdome haue taken it for spoken Ironically, in which accepta­tion it is no lesse then vnicent to the Prose.

Tut, this Make-bate hath no other proiect but to set Ephraim against Manasses, and Manasses a­gainst Ephraim, to cast a bone betweene the Mar­gent, and the Pag. 11. Text, and to set them both together by the eares with the truth: but the best is, the least dash of a pen will easily reconcile them.

Nay this is not all, hee challengeth the Prose also, as Pag. 10. notoriously false, in auerring that the counte­nance of venerable Antiquity is the artificiall colour wher­with Heresie doth paint her selfe, whereas (saith he) He­resie hath in all ages disclaimed the Award of Antiquity.

Then I am sure our Preacher deliuered false doctrine the last Sunday, for hee spake much of Patrem habemus Abrahamum, and I remember hee had such a word as Templum Domini, which was fre­quent (as he said) in the mouth of the Idolatrous and Hypocriticall Iewes. Hee spake somewhat also of the Epipham. Adamians, who vouched nothing but Antiquity, and of the Acephali who Damas. in O­rat. [...]. pleaded the authority of Athanasius and Cyril for the passage of their heresie [...] the particulars are crept out of my slippery braine.

Hee might further haue informed you of the Heretique Dioscorus, who in the open Councell did vant of the Pedegree and descent of his doctrine, from all the ancient Fathers of the Church. Concil. Chal­ced. Act. 1. Ego testimonia habeo sanctorum patrum, Athanasij, Gregorij &c. Ego defendo patrum dogmata. I haue the witnesse [Page 20] (saith hee) of the holy Fathers; I defend the Fathers do­ctrine. Was not Carosus an Heretique? yet forsooth he did beleeue, Con. il. Chal­ced. Act. 4. secundum expositionem trecentorum decem et [...]cto patrum; according to the exposition of the three hundred and eighteene Fathers. If the Plea of An­tiquity were not a glistering varnish, Andreas Barbati­us would not haue gone so high to fetch the descent of his Romish Cardinalls grounding their foundation vpon those words of Hannah, 1. Sam. 2.8. Dominisunt Cardines terrae, et posuit super cos orbem.

Hee might haue shewen himselfe a more skilfull Herauld, and gone neerer the sound, & sence, had he drawne their originall from these wordes of the Apostle 1. Cor. c. 3. ver. 3.: Vos autem carnales estis; but these Ar­cadian; must bee a day or two elder then the Moone, or else they will hold themselues no Gentlemen: their holy water must either flow from Elizaeus, or else it hath but a base current; and could they not fetch the authority of their Monasticke life from the sample of Christ himselfe, they would repute it, as of Pag. 84. an vpstart family.

I applaud their witte; this is not the worst fetch to gaine esteeme. Were I a rich man it should cost me an hundred A [...]ro vaenit honos. pound twice told, but I would haue Saturne or Priamus to stand on the top of my line. I would not sticke to alter two or three letters of my name, to make my selfe of kinne to A Ioue terti­us Aiax. Pantagru­el. Me thinks Horat. Ode 1. Moecenas atauis edite regibus is a state­ly Iambick, it runnes so full in the mouth.

The best iest (the liuely Embleme of his ma­licious spirit) is this that hee playeth vpon the Pag. 36. let­ters [Page 21] which fall in order, without any choice, as di­rects to the marginall notes. Hee had charged the Knight with an vnlearned Letter: heereupon Sir Ed­ward, discouering diuers his Solaecismes and Incongru­ities, (more then were named) to abridge the length of his Letter did margent thus. Si ego indignus (which word hee falsly cited) ha [...]c contumelia, tu indignus qui faceres tamen. This falling vnder the letter, O, Rab­shacheh▪ wittely tells him that, that had reason to cry Pag. 36., O, with which letter it was marked. In like manner he des­cants vpon the letter, T, by which hee vnderstands Throne.

Alas poore man, I beshrew my heart if I do not pitty the penury of his barren conceit. He was neere driuen, (God wot) when hee was faine to ransacke the Wardrope of his witte, for such thred­bare shifts.

What thinke you of this? when the Knight tells him that hee had a spight onely at one page, which lies in the heart of his Letter, hee in the quaintnesse of his nimble Conceipt retorts it thus. Pag. 30. It lies in the heart. Was not here an Eccho farre fetch'd? When the Knight sayes, well flowne Buzzard, he conceited­ly answeres Pag. 2. I did not marke how neere a kinne that soa­ring bird was to a Buzzard. For Miles gloriosus hath beene long since hissed off the stage, he returnes Pag. 3. you play Miles gloriosus: somewhat more Arte hee shewes in putting Cerberus, for Gelons dogge; For a good mans Dogge hath broken his legge ouer a lesse stile, he altering the person saith, Pag. 33. I feare your good dogge hath broken his legge. And as for the Noddy, the Couentree Cappe, [Page 22] and the Tobacco pipe, he bandies them vp and downe, as if the Tennis-court would affoord him no other balls. Thus doth he play Tom Skull, reuerberating according to his Rhetoricall skill the same syllables without any variety of inuention.

Sir, It was well obserued. I now see Nicks report was grounded vpon good warrant. Ishmael is a perfect Atomist, there cannot a Mote passe his fin­gers, he notes the very Pag. 7. number of the lines. Sir Edward cites a part of two verses out of a knowne Poet, onely with alteration of one word, vizt,—stulta est cle­mentia —perituro parcere funi. Whereupon Rab­shacheh tells his reader, that the Knight makes a verse that Page 4. exceedeth no lesse in fury then in feete.

He hath not onely a quarrell to my Masters Poetry, but for want of better stuffe hee scannes his Pag. 27. woods also vpon his fingers, and findes them too short by many feete. Yet I dare vndertake there are Oakes enough left standing to beare a millon of as stout Scar-crowes as Rabshacheh.

That which galleth him is, that the Knight now Pag. 84. possesseth the lands, which were formerly in the Terram inimi­corū possedebitis. tenure of Romish Catholiques.

Now you speak of that, you put me in mind of a merry answere which I heard my Master make touching that point. The Woods (quoth hee) stan­ding vpon holy ground, he hath little reason to find fault if I gaue them prim [...]m Tonsuram; withall hee concluded, that he was not a little glad he had pow­er so to order them; and the rather, for that such Dawes & Puttocks might be disappointed for building their nests there.

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The [...]elling of those Woods▪ (as I haue heard) will be the rai [...]ing of a more charitable work: But of what timber are those fellowes made, who with their goggle eyes prye into euery mans priuate affaires? Is this the next way to further Purgatories Triumph? but amongest other things, I mu [...]e how T. H. scapes his fingers, seeing his reuolt first bredde this quarrell; tis a wonder hee doth so quietly part with his prey, and tread so tenderly in that path, with so kind a respect.

Assure your selfe there is a pad in the straw. It is either for feare of some foule discouery, or for hope of his recouery: hee finds it his best course, to sooth him with the acknowledgement of a Pag. 90. learned and pithy Treatise, and to free him from the vices of vulgar life.

We will not diue so deepe in his thoughts. I warrant the Knight laughes his heart sore at the Pag. 37. 179. Black-moore wench, which Ishmaels inuention hath lately landed on our English coast.

Laugh! I protest there comes not a friend to visit him, but hee tells him of the Negro, & how friendly Rabshakeh hath promised to bring him to the Pag. 38. house where shee is to bee Petrus de Palude in Ser. de Innocent. found: onely hee feares shee is some cast wench; and if the Frier her Ghostly Father, by whom she was conuerted, haue blowne vpon her, hee hath passed his word to turne her ouer to Nick Groome. And shall not I (thinke you) be well promoted with the Iaponians reuersion? But the best is he coniures them all not to acquaint the Ladies by any meanes, lest they suspect his neglect [Page 24] of their attractiue beauties, whose smiles hee holdeth in high esteeme.

If the Knight should make vse of Rabsha­cheh his curtesie in this, he shall haue good cause to confesse that there is a Purgatory indeed. When he shall meet with Plutoes Neece vpon Earth, hee will giue the more credite to those singing flames, and ghastly Ghosts in the after World.

I haue heard good Philosophers affirme, that dreames most commonly arise, either Ex praeuia co­gitatione, so saies Isidor, Petrus de palude in ser. de Inocent. Saepe quae in die cogitamus, in nocte cognoscimus; or Ex cerebri perturbatione, and then, Mira & inaudita somniamus, secundum vaporem cellulam phantasticam inficientem; or else ex sanguinis infectione, and then somniant se ambulare per locà im­munda. Now perhaps I. R. hauing an ill braine, and worse bloud, had beene reading of Ixion, and his Clowde: or of Helides, or else the Poet Nicaeus, who had both faire daughters of Negroes· or of Alexan­der & his Aegyptian Cleopatra, and so hauing a spleen at the Knight, doth with a strong imagination fasten the supposed crimes vpon him, as if hee had bin pec­cant in that kind.

Peccant in that kind; I heard him say one day in the Stable, hee would giue 20. pound Rabshacheh had said troth, wishing that all rich widdowes neere London might read his booke: for then they would hold him fierce, and craue no other testimony for the approbation of his courage and virility.

The like fable the Licaonite coyneth to dis­grace one I. D. whom he describeth to be one of the [Page 25] Knights fellow Pag. 17. tobaccaean Wrighters; who (saith the Cecropidan) with morning and euening deuotions, did prostrate himselfe on the ground to the Picture of his Mi­stresse, with this praier; Illumina tenebras meas: Lighten my darnesse sweet Lady.

O notable figment! this is inuented to cry quittance for our Ladies borrowed face, mentioned in the Letter to the Collapsed Ladies.

As I am a true man, I cannot imagine that so impious an affection can harbor in any Protestant breast: but I remember I met not long since with a pretty Epigram, not altogether dissonant from this purpose, made vpon the credible relation of a Gen­tleman who had trauelled forraine parts: which as neere as I can hit it, runnes thus.

I promise you this is more then an inch beyond the reach of my Latin: I would it were Eng­lished.

On the sudden I cannot render it better then thus.

If my doublet had no better buttons then Pag. 137. Iohn Clements of Bruxels had, I should cracke them all with laughing at this conceipt. I trow Ishmaels darknesse will bee sufficiently enlightned with this more passable probability. If hee haue any sparke of shame he will not heereafter seeke such glow-worms, which show themselues in the blacknesse of vgly vn­truth, when they are once brought to the light of Triall.

Surely his braine is very like the soyle of Africa, which (as Cosmographers say) yeelds euery Moone, a new supply of strange Monsters, and de­formed creatures, not to be paraleld by any former praesidents. But all this while wee haue ouerslipped his positiue degree. What saies he to the Knights va­lour?

In my opinion he might well haue giuen o­uer that chase, as hauing receiued a modest, short suf­ficient, and discreet Counters. page, 19. answere. Yet saith he, Pag. 4. your let­ter gaue me iust cause to suspect your valour. For you con­fesse that the horror of the gun-pouder plot doth liuely re­present before you, euen in your dreames, and imprint in your most serious thoughts, that furious blast, which your selfe, your poor self should haue sensibly felt. Had you trem­bled at the bloudy massacres of many worthy Peeres, such a fit might haue beseemed a Knight: Now the onely cause of your feares and teares was the immoderate feeling of [Page 27] your owne priuate danger; And what if your eies had bin put out with that pouder, should the Common-wealth haue lost any whit of her sight.

It were better the Crowes should picke out the eies of tenne thousand such Ishmaelites, who are not onely as so many motes, but huge Eijce trabem. Luc. 6, 42, beames ble­mishing the sight of the body polliticke. Though he think there is not such a Pag. 66. doting Iustice of peace again in a country, holding him no wiser then Pag. 24. M ^r. T. D. not so politicke as the Non equidem inuideo. Statist deceased, yet it is well knowne his approued sufficiencies neede no such trumpet to commend him in the gates.

You haue no reason to take it in ill part, hee serues all Iustices of peace alike, glauncing at them as Pag. 197. Meaning Inter­gatories to sedi­tious Iesuites. good for nothing but to wast paper and inke in friuolous questions.

Nicke, passion hath almost drawne vs aside from the first Cauill pretended against the Knights courage, which was the immoderate sense of his owne priuate danger.

You say well; he builds vpon that Adage, Degeneres animos timor arguit, which might bee easily salued with that authentique Maxime, Charitas inci­pit à seipso. It is an old saying and a true, Qui sibi ne­quam, cui bonus? Hee that is regardlesse of his owne soule, life, and state, is no fit guardian for a Common­weale. But see how purblind this Pag. 4. eye-maker is; when he hath a purpose to play the counterfet. Hee that was so quick-sighted to spye a marginall note ninty two pages off to serue his owne turne, will not now see that which is directly opposite, beeing directed [Page 28] thereunto with the letter K, wherewith hee hath not beene vnacquainted Pag. 9. since hee could number thrice fiue yeares of his life; for had he but cast his eye (O par­tiall eye) aside, hee might haue seene Lett. to T. H. pag. 3. Lucretius be­dewing his cheekes with this lament, Vna dies dabit exitio, multosque per annos Sustentata ruet moles et ma­china regni. So that if the question be how it could stand with the Knights valour to imprint the horror of that furious blast in his most serious thoughts, he brings in Lucretius epitomizng that, which himself thorow the amazement of a so monstrous proiect was [...] le [...]es [...], ma­ [...]s s [...]upent. vna­ble to particularize to the full: vizt. that the glorious fabrike of this auncient and famous Kingdome should haue lyen flat on the ground.

Hinc illae lachrimae. This winde no doubt raised the storme of the Knights passion, wherof that the reader might entertaine more then a generall, or cursory apprehension, he giues him an hint by him­selfe, and his owne friends, what euery true Brittaine should haue either corporally or relatiuely felt.

Had he made an enumeration of the wor­thy Peeres, whose massacre was murtherously inten­ded, then would he haue charged him (as I heare he doth for his Apology in the behalfe of the most re­nowmed, and euer memorable Pag. 192. Archbishop) with Pag. 195. base deuotion, fawning, flattering conceipts, foolish fid­ling in their praises, and what not? Or else you should haue seene them all summed vp, with one and the same regardlesse account, that had the powder put out these Page 4. Quod singulis congruit id etiā species. I. Is. the Common-wealth had not lost any whit of her sight.

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It is very probable, howsoeuer he speake of some of his owne profession who detest that bloudy plot more, and for higher respects then the Knight, yet it seems this Libeller is none of that number: for albeit there was an impossibility that Sir Edward should haue gone to the pot alone, without the com­pany of many noble Lords, and the rest his worthy associates there assembled, he sticks not to say, that if that pouder had blowne him vp, the Common-wealth should haue had no cause to bewaile her losse. Thus doth the Iabal Rachil bewray his true intention in the [...]. [...]rist. Occon lib. 1. c. 2. particular, which pollicy aduiseth him to colour and conceale in the De similibus idem et iudici [...]. generall.

Iabal Rachil! here is a new Hierogliphicke, spick and spanne, from the mint: you haue on the sodaine giuen him as fit a name as the best Linguist could possibly haue inuented. These two wordes do import as much as Fluuius Detractionis, a Floud of Slaunders; the first of which hath no neerer affinity with his name, then the other with his nature, as be­ing rerum falsarum hamaxarins, so regardlesse of Kiffe and Kinne, that he will be easily drawne, according to the Prouerb Fratrum quo­que gratia rara est. Ʋicta tacet p [...]tas. (with speed) to libell against his own Father and neerest of bloud.

As I am true Groome. I thought M ^r. Mayor had called him Rake-hell, which hee might well haue warranted; For whatsoeuer Malice could inuent, Sophistry suggest, Hypocrisie pretend, or Impudencie maintaine, his crooked finger hath raked together, out of the bogs of Hell, to cramme this his railing Pam­phlet withall.

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You haue not yet heard al he hath to say, for the degrading of the Knights valour, who (saith Ia­bal) sheweth no small want of Pag. 4. nobility and valour, in de­siring that the most superlatiue seuerity might bee practi­sed in the sharpest research of that viperous brood, those merci-lesse hell-hounds, the Priests and Iesuites, whome Mercy it selfe should bee thought cruell euer to for­giue.

Were hee not past all shame, hee would haue swallowed downe that morsell with silence; The more he rubs that sore, the more he renewes the me­mory of that Tragicall ende of Henry the fourth of France, whose princely breast carried to his graue the Characters of their gracelesse, and vngrateful disloy­alty. Their murther of Kings, their garboyles rai­sed in free States, and their alienating the hearts of subiects from their obliged obedience, must not in a­ny hand in them bee held treason, but deuotion; wheras on the contrary it is not Courage, but Cow­ardise, to seeke by the execution of penall lawes (which are now grown rusty for want of vse) to free the country from such Wolues, who make themselues drunke with the bloud of the Saints, playing with imperiall Globes, as Whales do with barrels, which they tosse vp and downe at their pleasures.

Yet as if these things were nifles, no whit preiudiciall to a Common-weale, he complaineth of want of the Knights Charity, Pag. 5. Can any noble bloud (saith hee) harbour in that heart, that is so greedy of In­nocent bloud? The Lion spareth his prostrate enemie, whereas you long to teare out our hearts, in which you can­not [Page 31] finde any sinne, besides an ouer-feruent desire to Viam Verita­tis nescierunt. helpe you to heauen.

An ouer-feruent desire indeede. Calescunt plus satis. Rather then faile, if there be any powder in a Country, they will send fiery Chariots to hoise vs vp into the Clouds.

It were better in my opinion to trauel thi­ther on foot; hee shall bee sure to lose much lether who spurres Cut so fast: but by his leaue I will not hyre such a blind Guide at so deere a rate. When I come to S ^t Omers, Doway or Rome, he will beare mee in hand, that I haue a little further to trauell, as be­ing in the Suburbs of Paradise, whereas (God wot) I shall haue gone so farre out of my way, and then stand in need of a new helpe, to bring mee out of the Deuills mouth.

Wee shall heare anon what ghostly directi­ons hee will giue vs to further vs in this voyage: In the meane season it is not amisse to obserue what skill hee vseth in peruerting the Knights meaning. The Knight indeed professeth irreconcilable dete­station; but of whom? Of the Incendiaries of the Ro­mish forge. Hee proclaimes not warre against the In­ueagled Ladies, and other poore seduced soules; his discretion hath taught him not to bind the nocent and innocent in one bundle. They are Incendiaries whom hee brandeth as worthy perpetuall detestati­on. Et quamdiu tales, as long as they deserue that de­nomination, I cannot see how the most regular Cha­rity dare bid them God speed; neither doth he mali­tiously desire, but rather vpon more then probable [Page 32] coniecture by way of caution foretell the Pag. 6. damnati­on of their soules who second those hellish Pyoners, in those diuellish courses, which are so odious in the sight of God and man. Reason he had to expresse his dislike as pathetically as he could; for that hee feared the like incouragements, and meritorious attributes, to such future attempts from the Papall Sea, by whose Agents that plot is now (in shew) disclaimed; though rather for the Proditionem amant Prodito­res infelices o­disse simulant. contrary successe, then the barbarous immanity thereof.

I am verily perswaded the most Christian Charity would not sticke to professe eternall opposi­tion to that viperous brood, whose hearts harbour dangerous factions, whose tongues are tip'd with malitious scandalls, whose hands are imbrued in a Sea of innocent bloud. If the great Iudge haue Foris canes, Apoc. 22.15. shut the gates of heauen against such inueterate, and im­penitent Murtherers, I cannot see how mercy can be hired by the Popes Indulgences to lend them a key for their entrance into life.

Tempora mutantur. It was no cruelty of yore to cast a poore harmelesse Acts and Mo­numents. infant springing from the scorched womb of the mother, into the fiery flames, there to be consumed; but now the very speech of Parliament seuerity against notorious traytours, and matchlesse Malefactors, argues want of Nobility and valour: the truth is, our Iustices may be wel suspected for both, as being according to Iabals account Pag. 8. taller men of their tongues, then of their hands. Did they im­ploy their authority in suppressing them in their particular Shires, as well as they vse their wits in [Page 33] decreeing against them in the Parliament house, they should gaine more honour, and the Countrey reape farre more good.

Quae supra nos nihil ad nos. I dare say you long till you heare how he laies about him in the defence of Purgatory, but his meaning is to try your patience. The second part of his Apology touching certaine exceptions against himselfe, taketh vp the remain­der of his first Chapter. For the dispatch of these Pag. 11. toyes (so hee tearmes them) as if hee were challen­ging his Copes-mate at tria sequuntur tria, hee doth methodically diuide this sequele into Flies, Fies and Lies.

The rime may well beseeme Skelton the Poet, or There was a wife of Croyden And she rid a stroyden, &c. Elderton the Ballad-maker; but I would gladly see the reason; what meanes he by Flyes?

Sir Edward (I remember) to abate the pride of his spurtling quill in blemishing the worth of o­ther mens lines, giues him a tast of such an indecorum, wouen throughout that work, as would inforce true Literature to blush at the very first sight therof, there being very few leaues wherein the Reader shall not meet with a Cobweb, a Spider or a Flye. Some of which he there paged to saue himselfe a labour in the disco­uery of those many other Solaecismes, Incongruities, and Iobbing Parentheses, which any curious eye with­out the helpe of Spectacles might easily discerne.

And what flappe hath he gotten to free his paper from these magotting creatures, whose blow­ing hath made his periods so vnsauory?

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He doth confesse, and auoid. He forsooth had rather vtter his minde in a crabbed then a new created phrase; as being Pag. 12. more curious that his doctrine be true, then his speech smooth.

Hee that will take vpon him to Minorize the learning of Authors, and to dedicate his workes vnto persons of that extraordinary note, and super­latiue iudgement, must not onely weigh his positi­ons in the ballance of the sanctuary, that they bee consonant to the truth, but Omne tulit [...] qui mis­ [...] v [...]ile dulci. polish them also with a Rhetoricall file, that they want not those comely Oratoris pro­prium, apte, dis­tincte, ornate (que) dicere. ornaments which are requisite in the Professors of Art. The fabricke of Theologicall worke ought to bee raised ex lapidibus politis. Ragged and rugged stones are fitter for the wild Quarry then to stand in the beautifull gate. To runne a poore silly heartlesse Metaphor out of Crambe bis cocta. breath, argues little variety of wit and lesse solidity of iudgement.

Will you see wit play her prize? then listen how pretily Rachil can defend Solacismes. Pag. 14. Such see­ming faults (saith he) are by indicious censures esteemed not to be blemishes, but rather ornaments in the purest Writers. The stile is childish which still feareth the rod, not daring to depart one sillable from the rules of Gram­mar. As in a Consort of sweet voices, a Discord now and then doth make the Musicke more pleasing, so the worthiest writers haue let some iobs passe in their workes, which rather delight then offend a Iudicious Reader.

Heere is a Ladde for the nonce to helpe a lame dogge ouer a stile. O thou rarely patronized Pag. 180. Barbarity, downe on thy marrow-bones, prostrate [Page 35] thy selfe at the foote of this thy valorous Champion borne in Pag. 171. Margent. Brinitania, who hath stretched his fiue wits on the Tenter-hooks to maintaine thy worth. Tis great pitty that this lusty Iuuentus came so raw from the ferula; had he continued a little longer at School by this time he would haue made the Welkin roare.

I know not how other men stand affected: for my owne part, I haue euer held that Fidler wor­thy to bee turned out of doores among the rascall company, (though he haue a badge on his sleeue as broad as my hand) who still harpes vpon one string, and dwells vpon one tune, be it the best horne-pipe, that euer Lincoln-shire affoorded. Doth not one harsh bleating voice disgrace a whole quire? Doth not one vnsauory hearb giue a relish to the whole pot of pot­tage? A discord I grant may be admitted with some grace, but not continued without some intollerable disgust. In a word, if one flye mar a boxe of sweetest ointment, I cannot see what credit this multiplicity of Spiders, Cobwebs, & Flyes can bring to Iabals booke.

I hope we shall find better stuffe in the rest; how doth he shake off the flyes? they sticke I feare so close to his skin, (maugre his Pag. 11. Neapolitan perfume) that they will hardly out of the bone.

He Pag. 15. blusters mainly that the Knight shold crie, Fie vpon his genericall and accidentall Christning of Bells, relatiue honour of Images, and metaphoricall diuision of the Kingdome betweene God and the Virgin.

Is he so impudent as to stand in the defence of these vncouth and ridiculous fopperies, which can shew no other pedegree but heathenish folly, and [Page 36] Idolatrous superstition to countenance them from ex­ploding contempt?

As touching the first practise; he doth not say that Bells are Pag. 15. Formula bapti­zandi campanas apud Durand. de Rit. lib. 1. ca. 22. Christned; but that the Blessing of bells hath some genericall similitude with the Christning of a Child.

Whether it be a similitude, or an Tantundem dat tantidem. Identity I am not so cunning a Logician to distinguish. It skils not much how they please to tear me it, who are dri­uen to their shifts in seeking some colourable man­tle to shroud it from the inglorious note of heathenish bastardy. The question is, quo iure, what warrant he hath for this genericall similitude, (which he confes­seth) betweene the Blessing of Bells, and the Christning of a Child.

Nay there he leaues you to your own search. If you can neither find Scripture, Father, nor ancient Councell to warrant this practise, hee meanes not to be your Informer. It sufficeth him beeing betweene Hawke and Buzzard to turne it ouer with a witlesse and vnciuill iest, which he deuideth betweene his old familiars the Pag. 15. Buzzard and the Asse.

I haue heard some say there was once much adoe about the Eras. Adag. shadow of an Asse: but there beeing store of that breed at Doway, Iabal is now growne so nice, that he will not be seene vpon the backe of his olde animal, wherefore the poore wearied Asse is faine to ride him.

Tis pitty they should part companies; yet did I neuer see man more troubled with the mare in his sleepe; then Rachil is at mid-day with the Asse, [Page 37] of whom he grones to be disburdened. Faine would he haue the Pag. 16. Printer beare part of his luggage; but seeing it is now more then a yeere and a day since the Lazi-as was found as a stray, and cryed in open Mart by Rabshakeh, the custome of the Mannor ( se­cundum vsum Sarum) makes it his owne, without cut­ting off either mane or Pag. 47. tayle.

My masters I am glad to see your wits so frolicke; yet I must needes say it is but Lex talionis: besides, his reasoning approoues more then you say. For admit a Venetian Pander, should put on the Popes robes, his Triple Crowne, his slipper, come with S. Pe­ters keyes, sit downe in the Conclaue on the Chayre ap­propriated to his Holinesse: and that he should in his passage be saluted by the Vulgar as Pope (bea­ring those ensignes with which that Deity alone is dignified) Should he not be sure to be called Coram, and pay deare for this his genericall, and accidentall resemblance? Will it serue his turne to say, Alas no man heard mee say that I was Paulus Quintus, I did but weare his vestiments, and a little counterfeit his state.

I will giue him my word hee shall finde it better to play the Deuill, then so to immitate the Pope.

The case is of the same nature. The bles­sing of Bells is no lesse presumptuously accompani­ed with the sacred rites, and ceremonies of Baptisme, (yea with greater solemnities) then the Christning of Children: so that the Laye people know not how to distinguish them. Now marke how Iabal playes [Page 38] the Pandar, he doth not say that Pag. 15. Bells are Christned, onely this, The blessing of Bells hath some generall re­semblance with Christning. Neither is the Venetian Pandar Pope, though habited like the Pope: Shall he not be sure to haue this peale or the like rung in his eares, by one Eun [...]ch. Act. 3 Scen. 5. Antipho or other. Quo pergis ganeo? vnde emergis, vestitum hunc nactus? quid tibi quaeris? Satin' sanus? quid sibi hic vestitus quaerit? I haue so charitable an opinion of Rachil, that his reuerent res­pect to the Primate of the Romish Sea, would make him say, Fye vpon such a Pope. Yet (see how blind deuotion ouer-swaies th'equity of his iudgement in the like) hee quarrells with the Knight for saying, Fye vpon your genericall and accidentall Christening of Bells.

Sets hee no better glosse vpon his relatiue honour of Images?

He begs the question, and wonders any man should be so Pag. 16. dull, not to vnderstand that which e­uen children conceiue, that honour done to the Image is no iniury to the person, or that a Christian will deny to Christ in his Image, what any honourable person may chal­lenge to his. Pag. 17. You (saith hee) that crye fie vpon the rela­tiue honour of our Sauiour in his Crosse, how would you haue snarled at the noble Ladies of the Primitiue Church, that did licke with their religious tongues the dust of that thrice Venerable Relique. Pag. 18. O glorious cause, which by such Epicureans is impugned, who worship Bacchus or Cupid in their Chambers.

In their Chambers? Tis well he hath got­ten the ground of Imaginary Chamber-worke, to [Page 39] support the glory of his superstitious Church-work.

It would make any pious breast bleede, to recount those infinite and strange pollutions, where­with their religious houses haue beene (as appeareth vpon authentique Records) monstrously infected. I hope our chambers compared with their Monaste­ries, are as Chappells paralell'd with impure Styes.

Sir, it is our happines that he can challenge vs onely with the Pag. 16 & 17 Pulchra puella placet displicet vmbra tibi. pictures of faire Ladies. Had not their Chambers housed the liuing creatures them­selues, I doubt whether he should haue had so great cause to bragge as he doth of the Pag. 195. & 183. workes of deuotion. There was a Benefactor called Satisfactory Pennance, who builded more Hospitalls, &c. then all the Vo­luntaries besides.

Yet put them all together, we are able to in­stance as many charitable Willet his ca­talogue of charitable workes. workes done in England within these 60. yeares, as I thinke were seene in ma­ny more before, especially if you compare the pri­zes, and rates, with those of former and lesse peopled times.

Let not his taunts make vs lose the conclu­sion; Our Relatiue loue of senceles pictures (which he causelesly feareth cannot patronize the Relatiue honour of Images,) Non fas est Christianum per oculos suspensum teneri sed per occupationem mentis. he Idolatrously practiseth, and illiterately defendeth. For if hee challenge no more honour for his Images, then noble persons to their pictures, (as he pretends) we will passe his suite, as a motion sauouring of equity: but it is more then ei­ther a ciuill reuerence, or an historical remembrance for which hee laboureth, wherein his instance of the [Page 40] Matron Paula will not succour him: Hieron. Epi­taph. Paulae. ad Eustochiam Virg. Shee lying pro­strate before the crosse kissed (as S. Hierome saith) the stone of the Sepulcher, which the Angell remooued; yea she licked the place where the Lord had lyen.

This I thinke is not to be disallowed: in the kissing of those sacred Reliques, shee gaue testimo­ny of her holy zeale, faith, and loue to Christ. But did shee deeme them as Instruments, by the touch whereof shee expected any effusion, or influence of grace?

Iabal would [...]aine wrest it to his purpose, by mistranslation: She did vse (saith he) to lye prostrate be­fore the Crosse, therein with a liuely faith adoring Christ: whereas Hieromes wordes runne thus. Prostrating her selfe before the Crosse, she did adore, as if she had seene the Lord hanging thereon. Hierome saith not, shee vsed to lye prostrate before the crosse; but that now beeing come to Hierusalem, where shee met with the reall Crosse, she prostrated her selfe, and how? before it, not vnto it: Neither doth hee say that therein shee adored Christ (there Iabal is out) but Prostrating her selfe be­fore the Crosse of Christ, she did adore, as if she had seene the Lord hanging thereon; that is, shee fixed her re­membrance vpon Christ crucified, whom only shee did adore. So that this being not the Image of the Crosse, but the Crosse it selfe, concludes not that ho­nor of Images, which the Non sunt duae adorationes sed vna. Concil. Ni­cen. 2. Act. 4. Romanists maintaine, who doctrinally auerre, that the Image, and the patterne of the Image, ought to bee honoured with one, and the same honour of Bellar. de cult. Imag. Latria; making the Image par­taker of Diuine worship, (at the least accidentally) [Page 41] whereas Diuine worship is in no part, or semblance, appliable to any, but to a Diuine Essence.

In my conceipt Iabal is desirous to picke a quarrell with the Knight, who doth not condemne all relatiue Adoration, which his owne Church pra­ctiseth in the receiuing of the Communion, where we doe diuinely remember, and adore Christ, as dying vpon the Crosse, that being vnto vs a sacred remem­brance of his death, vntill his comming: but he lay­eth the Fye vpon that Relatiue honour, wherein the dumbe creature, is made more then a demi-god, and honoured with Vowes and Supplications, as if one and the same Saint could be present in all places, where his pictures are worshipped, to take notice of those particular homages, which whilest he was liuing vp­on the earth, he would neuer haue permitted to be done to his owne person. These Praiers and Offe­rings, neither did Paula practise, neither had the Knight reason to allow. Besides, we must beg leaue to put a difference betweene an historicall relation, and a determinatiue position, th'one being de facto, the o­ther de iure.

To take Iabal in his right sence, (I mean his Antemeridian,) I would faine know whether the Pa­gans that worshipped the Images of the heathen Gods did not worship them by a Non materi­as veneramur, non ipsá simula­chra, sed eos in his colimus, quos dedicatio infert sacra. Haec ra­tio à Paganis quoque adferri solebat. Cassan. Consul. Art. 21. pag. 153. relatiue adoration.

Nay vnder your correction, I haue reade in Strabo, and Herodotus, that the Persians did neyther reare Statues, nor Altars to their Gods. The Alex. ab A­lex. lib. 2. c. 22. Aegyp­tians did scoffe at their folly, who represented their Gods by Images. Lycurgus, though otherwise very [Page 42] ceremonious, did vtterly disallow, that the glorious feature of the immortall Gods, should bee counter­feited by any mortall shapes. Yea I haue heard a good Diuine alleage S. Lib. de ciuit. dei. [...]. c. 31. ex Ʋarrone. Augustines authority, that the ancient Romanes for 170. yeares did worshippe their Gods without any Image.

I graunt there was a time, when Images were not at all, at least not so vniuersall; they that were the first founders of them, Aug. ibid. Ciuitatibus suis me­tum dempserunt, et errorem addiderunt: which made those of the deepest reach positiuely forbid them, Ne Deorum maiestas simulachrorum stoliditate contemne­rentur: least the maiesty of the Gods might grow into con­tempt, through the foolish inuentions, and base met­tall, or matter, wherein they were represented; But I speake of those nations, and those times, wherein I­mages were in most request.

Either I heard a lye, or else there was a Phi­losopher, who hauing in his house a wooden Image of Hercules, did so highly esteeme it, that when fiering grew very scarce, hee first cleft it, and then laide it a­long vnder the pot, saying; Epiphan. in Ancorato de Di­agora. Now Hercules thy labors shall amount to a full Bakers dozen: thy [...]centh labour shall bee to seeth a Calfes head for my dinner. This was the relatiue honour, wherewith hee honoured his Idoll.

I can tell you as pretty a Tale as that: there haue not beene yet three moones, since a dainty col­lapsed creature, sold a very faire Crucifixe to buy her selfe a Fanne; and being reproued by a double-chind Mastix, her best answer was this: that shee meant to [Page 43] haue another engrauen vpon the handle, (in stead of her Armes) which should still be in her sight.

I will not say shee made a more vsefull ex­change; for such pictures may well serue as historicall monuments, by way of representation. But their ad­mired Lib. 9. Epist. 9 Indict. 4. Gregory absolutely excludes them from all manner of worship, and adoration. Adorare Imagines omnibus modis deuita. In any case (saith he) beware thou worship not Images. Polyd. Ʋirg. lib. 6. Inuent. c. 13. S. Hierome (if Polidore may be credited) assignes the reason, Ob metum Idololatriae, for feare of Idolatry, which by this meanes hath spred it selfe too farre among the ruder sort.

Then I perceiue the distinction of relatiue, and improper honour, is hatched onely for an euasion, least they seem to oppugne Antiquity, by their ido­latrous practise.

The ghostly Fathers, the Priests, haue long sate vpon it, but yet it is not fledge, Lib. 2. de I­mag. c. 21. & 22. Bellarmine mars all that they haue made; he allowes more then rela­tiue honour. Imagines Christi, et Sanctorum, (saith he) venerandae sunt, non solum per accidens, et impropriè, sed etiam per se, & proprie &c. non solum vt vicem ge­runt exemplaris. The Images of Christ, and of his Saints are to be worshipped, not onely accidentally, and improper­ly, but simply and properly: that is, not onely as they are resemblances of the Prototype, but as they are considered in themselues. On the contrary, Non tantum si quis pre [...]es si­mulachris offe­rat, verum etia cum id aliquis simulat. Aduers. Celsum. lib. 7. vt Cassander con­sult. Art. 2. pag. 153. Quid te ad fal­sas imagines in­clinas? Quid ad inepta simula­chra corpus in curnas &c. In supernis De­um quaere, vt ca­rere inferis pos­si [...]. Claud. Tauri­nen. aduer. The­odem. Origen holds it no better then a foolish and adulterous Prophanation, euen outwardly to seem to worship an Image. How is it possible to set these agreed, that are so much at ods.

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I do not finde that the Cherubins (hauing a diuine and speciall institution) were euer applied by the Iewes vnto holy worship; wherfore there is lesse colour for this relatiue honour of Images, whose e­rection is arbitrary, whose forme hath little or no cer­tainty, whose Quid inter se tam contrarium quam Statuariū dispicere statuam adorare? Senec. in Moral. makers are persons contemptible, and of small regard.

Now you speake of the forme of these Ima­ges, you put mee in minde of the confession of their owne Stapulensis, who in his booke De vna ex tribus Maria, writes thus: Fateor equidem libere, picturae a­liquot caenae Domini mihi displicuere, et etiam ea quae, nisi memoria me fallit, visitur Mediolani, &c. I doe indeede freely confesse, that I haue beene sometimes scarce pleased with certaine pictures of our Lords Supper, euen with that which, if I be not mistaken, is yet to bee seene in a certaine Monastery at Mediolanum; not that I disliked the Pain­ters skill, which was very rare, but because he kept no good decorum: Quandoquidem Iohannem magis puellam refe­rentem, quam virum, et quam Apostolum ad Christi latus collocauit. Forsooth hee placed Iohn by Christs side, more like a maide, then a man, or an Apostle.

We haue the like picture in our Parlour at the Black Friers, but I warrant I should haue looked vpon it till doomes day, before I should haue noted that Quirke. I promise you Faber shewes himselfe a right honest man, to let them see their owne Incon­gruous absurdity.

In my opinion Iabal should haue done well to haue specified the extensiue, and intensiue de­grees of this relatiue honour; for I haue beene infor­med [Page 45] by sundry trauellers, landed in this Port, that one and the same Saint hath not alwaies one and the same degree of honour, beeing more or lesse res­pected, with concourse, offerings, and adorations, according to the Credunt eas sanctiores quae pretiosiores. trimnesse of the forme, richnesse of the matter, or the celebrity of the place, wherein the statue is erected.

This is right like one of our neighbours Girles: if the Baby haue not the holliday partlet, all the fat is in the fire, she is in the powt, all a mort.

Such is the simplicity of ignorant people, they are carried away by these impostors with out­ward shewes: which made the poore Clarke in Saint Omers secretly to remooue the picture of the blessed Virgin, from an obscure seate, into a more conspi­cuous place of the Church: making as if the picture had in discontent of the former neglect, remooued it selfe to a Site fitter for adoration. He saw there was no other feate but this, to improoue his vailes.

And had not Auarice whispered in Rachils eare, his pen would not haue beene halfe so violent in the defence of this heathenish, and relatiue honor, wherein hee shewes himselfe no lesse sencelesse then the braine-lesse pictures, for which hee is hyred to plead.

Well at length wee are arriued at Puddle wharfe, I meane at the last Fye. In this squeamish veine (saith he) you cast a Fye vpon my saying, that by Meta­phor God may be said to haue Diuisum im­perium cum Io­ue Diua tenet. deuided his kingdom with the Virgin: What if I had said God had giuen her his whole Kingdome, his Throne, Scepter; that Christ in person did [Page 46] wait on her, sitting at the table of glory; how would your Carre haue beene madde at these Metaphors?

My Master thought hee had to doe with a Diuine, but I perceiue he hath met with a bangling Sophister.

It seemes Iaball hath not yet put his Pag. 112. nose in­to the sweet cup of Gods glory, who hath so dull a sent in winding heauenly things.

His argument is drawne a minore ad maius, and carries this sence. If all the faithfull seruants of God shall bee partakers of this so great honour, then much more that glorious creature, who hath a preheminence aboue them all. But Christ hath pro­mised the society of the faithfull not onely to Luc. 22. v. 29. Dispono vobis sicut &c. appoint vnto them a kingdom, as his Father had appointed to him: but also to make them sit Luc. 12. v. 37. downe at Table, to come forth to minister vnto them. Therefore the Virgin may be saide to haue his whole Kingdome, Scepter and Throne.

If this collection b [...]e good, euery Christian shall haue the like Soueraignty: for this Charter, as farre as I perceiue, runnes with a vobis. Psal. 149. v. 9. Such honor haue all his Saints. The Mensa hic ac­cipitur pro coele­stis vitae gloria. Gorrand. Mensa rotunda aeternitatis cuius in circuitu eri­mus sicut nouel­lae oliuarum. table which our Sauiour mentioneth is an Embleme of that rest, and satiety of ioyes wherewith we shall at his comming bee all replenished. His seruing vs is not ministerium obse­quij, to bee taken as an act of humility: but rather ministerium suffragij, sen beneficij, as an act of his fa­therly bounty, in Qui in terra fuit dator virtu­tum in coelo est distributor prae­miorum. crowning vs with more high ad­uancement, then if the poorest vassall vpon earth, should haue the greatest Monarch to waite at his [Page 47] trencher. Neither doe I take Sicut to bee a note of e­quality, but of likenesse, either in the order, or in the participation, of so much of his glory, as shall suf­fice for their perfect happinesse.

Iabal makes no question of this; he is not ig­norant, that where it is said, he shall set the Mat. 25.33. sheepe on his right hand, we are to vnderstand the participation not Nulla compa­ratio inter Crea­turas et Deum cadit, quia finiti ad infinitū nulla est Proportio. Petrus Ierem. an equality; much lesse any priority of his glo­ry. He acknowledgeth these to be Pag. 19. Metaphors, wher­with God doth vse to exaggerate the happy estate of meaner Saints then his Mother: neither hath hee a­ny other meaning by this Metaphoricall diuision of the Kingdome, betweene God and the Virgin, but that Ouerth. pag. 168. & 169. Ad dextram po­nere aliquem est honorare perso­nam sicut legitur de Matre Salo­monis. 1. Reg. ca. 2 v. 19. she is in greatest fauor with God: so potent in her intercession, that she deliuereth from dangers, and bestow­eth fauors, and graces on whom she pleaseth; as one who by fauour and friendship, doth both ouer-rule the Court of iu­stice, stopping such processes against vs, as our sinnes doe deserue, and rule the Court of mercy, being able by her in­tercession to obtaine for vs in that Court, whatsoeuer wee do either need, or can reasonably desire.

I haue heard the schollars of Oxford talke much of a non sequitur; were there any of them heere he would put Iabal to prooue this inference. The bles­sed Virgin is in great fauour with God, therefore shee is Queene Regent in the Court of heauen: Gloriam meā alteri non dabo. Isa 42. v. 8. ergo to bee inuo­cated, ergo to be adored.

Indeed this plea could not free the Epiph. in Hae­res. Colli­rydians from the blur of Epiphanius his pen, by which they are branded with the infamous note of heretical Idolatry: and not without iust cause, for albeit the [Page 48] Saints are inuested in the glory of immortality, yet doth the Lord reserue the glory of his diuinity as proper to himselfe, whereof he is so iealous, that hee can in no hand endure such Luciferian spirits as shall attempt to Nemo hunc honorem sumat. rob him of any of his peculiar claymes: as Vowes, Prayers, Sacrifice, and the like religious ho­mages. He it is alone, who searcheth the hearts, and the reines, whose mercy is aboue all his workes. It is honour enough for the blessed Virgin to behold the face of her Sauiour, to haue a prime mansion in that spati­ous house, to cry Alleluiah before the throne: but to erect a Court of speciall Possumus pro­uocare à foro iu­stitiae Dei, ad Cu­riam. B. Maria. Bernardinus in Marial. appeale, to summon su­tors to prostrate themselues before her Si quis à filio terreatur quia Iudex est, Mari­am adeat quia Medicina est Holcot. in lib. Sap. Lect. 36. throne, is more then either Astitit regina a dextris, or Dispono vobis regnum, dare probably auouch. Such positiue conclusions built vpon Metaphoricall grounds, doe proue little better then fallacies, a dicto secundum quid, ad dictum simpliciter.

You say right. For Christs soueraigne pow­er ouer the whole world is incommunicable, and cannot be conueighed to the person of any creature: but the fruit and benefit of this power euery one that is in Christ reapeth in his saluatiō: being exalted thereby, to sit in the heauenly places, as a partaker of Christs glory; & hauing power from thence, euen in his owne person, to triumph ouer Sinne, Death, and Hell, and to breake them in peeces as the Apoc. 2.27. Vessels of a potter. This is the royalty there intended: if Iaball set this string any higher, it will breake, and flye in his face.

The stretching of those Metaphors to reach [Page 49] owne sence occasioned De inuent. l. 6. c. 13. Polydores complaint. Bene multi rudiores (saith hee) imaginibus magis fidunt, quàm Christo. Very many simple folke repose more con­fidence in Images, then in Christ. And that of In Aug. de ci­uit. lib. vlt. c. vlt. Viues, Multi Christiani in re bona plerumque peccant, quod Di­uos Diuasque non aliter venerantur, quam Deum. Many worship the Saints with the same honour, which is due vnto God. Had it not beene for these superstitious, and vnbounded Encomiastiques, and metaphoricall doxologyes, this Idolatry had not found the way into the Church dore: but when the people were taught that God had giuen the Virgin the better halfe of his Kingdome, (which they vnderstood to be a subordi­nate Iurisdiction) then you must thinke they spared no Altaria fu­mant. cost at her Shryne: then were they as willing to set out the picture like a Goldy-locks, with Rebatoes, red Sattin Petticotes, and loose Gownes, as they were to prancke vp her child, with a Veluet Cappe and Fea­ther.

This homage seemes to haue some coun­tenance, from the acknowledgement of the foure and twenty Elders, who speak Apoc. 5.10. thus vnto the Lamb. Thou hast made vs vnto our God, Kings and Priests, and we shall raigne vpon the earth; by which they intimate a kind of Regall Iurisdiction, ouer those that breath vpon this terrestriall Globe, which if it bee granted, there can no cost be thought too much, either in the honour of her statue, or the purchase of her fauour, who by all likelihood, is of highest esteeme in the Court of heauen,

Iabal hath this Ouerth. pag. 168. text by the end, but (God [Page 50] wot) it will stand him in little steed: for those foure and twenty Elders, do not represent the state of the Saints in heauen, but of the Compared with Apoc. c. 1. ver. 6. Church militant vpon earth, Richardus de Sancto Vict. expounds the harpes in their hands, to bee the good works of the Saints, whose sweet harmony and delightfull sound draw­eth others with whom they conuerse, to the con­templation and liking of heauenly things: their or­dinary Glosse vnderstands by them the mortification of the flesh. Their Ignatian Blas. Vieg. in Apo. pag. 247. Viegas takes these harps to signifie the commemoration of Diuine prayses, which (saith he) the foure and twenty Elders doe set forth two maner of waies, viz. mortificatione passionū, & diuini verbi praedicatione: by the mortification of their passions, & the preaching of the diuine word; both which actions are to be performed by the liuing, & no way appliable to the departed, who feele neither the re­luctation of the flesh, nor the Imperfectum abolebitur. defect of knowledge. As for the golden vialls full of odours, hee vnderstands by them the hearts of the Saints, shining and glittering with Charity, wherewith they are so Ausbertus. replenished, that they pray not only for their friends, but also for their ene­mies (which duty our Sauiour imposeth vpon his li­uing Disciples) who are subiect to the Crosse, from which those which are deceased are free.

These expositions seem to ratifie your sence: but how are those Elders then said to bee before the Lambe, to be about the Throne, and to reigne vpon the earth, seeing the children of God are heere Per aenigma. se­positi, & depositi, wanting the glorious Deum nemo vidit vnquam. light of Gods vision, and the preheminence of the worlds graceful Purgamenta mundi. 1. Cor. c. 4. v. 13 estimation?

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The Lord who hath promised not to leaue vs, but to be with vs vnto the end of the world, is dai­ly resident in the middest of his sanctuary; where wee enioy the sweete comforts of his presence, as sensibly as if he were visible amongest vs. Wee offer vnto him from the Vialls of our hearts the sweet o­dours, and pleasing incense of our harty prayers: by vertue also of his spirit wee are enabled to ouercome the Regnabimus super terram id est super corpus nostrum quod de terra est. Gor­rand. concupiscence of the flesh, and all carnall de­sires. Thus doe wee not onely performe the offices of our spirituall Priest-hood, but also by the lawe of vertue Hamo. raigne like Kings vpon the earth; which is the royall praerogatiue there specified.

Then I see Iabals Relatiue honour of Ima­ges, and his figuratiue diuision of Gods kingdome to the Virgin, had neede bespeake a new paire of Stilts, his old Crutches will not carry him out of the reach of that Fye, by which he is iustly attached for no lesse then petty-treason, in adulterating the generall, and genuine sence of holy Writte. The Paper hee hath spent in this pettish veyne, would haue made excel­lent prouender for Pag. 137. Dunne.

Yet will hee make you stoppe your nose a little longer. He presents vs further with a Posye of such ranke flowers, as are able to poyson a quicke sent: We must be faine to trace him one round more about this Dung-hill of vnsauory Fyes, which noy­some Weedes he bindeth vp, as if they were so ma­ny sweet Violets, or wholsom hony-suckles.

I would gladly heare what his Appendix hath to say.

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Pag. 19. You thinke (quoth he) you haue brought mee to a baye, when you force me to confesse that our Church Hymnes are figuratiue Poems: but are not the Psalmes of Dauid the chiefest Hymnes of God his Church? and are not these Poems full of figuratiue speeches? Why then may not a Theologicall inuocation bee vttered in a fuguratiue speech?

My Master hath beene a peece of a Poet in his daies, therefore I cannot thinke hee would de­barre that commendable Science from her most lau­dable vse.

That which the Knight distasted was this: whereas Rabshacheh could not bee ignorant of the generall position, and practise of his fellow Cacoli­ques, in adoring, and inuocating the Virgin Mary with these and the like oraysons. In prosa Mis­sae de concep. Tu spes certa mi­serorum, Vera Mater Orphanorum, Tu leuamen op­pressorum, medicamen infirmorum, omnibus es omnia; And againe, Gaude Matrona caelica &c. Tu ancilla Iesu Christi vocari voluisti, sed vt docet lex diuina, tu ipsius es Iure matris impera. Horar. Secund. chorum. Augustensem. Domina, nam ius habet et ratio matrem prae­esse filio &c. Hee notwithstanding plaies the cow­ard, and leaues Sedulius in the lurch, who doth descant vppon the same playne-song; answering the exceptions taken against his Ouerth. p. 40 Scribanius for the like blasphemies, with this colourable euasi­on. Such is the notorious folly of your Preacher Ouerth. praef. pag. 37. saith hee, that hee gathereth a Gospell out of a Poeme, and that not written historically, or doctrinally, but in pa­theticall verse, full of Metaphors, Metonomies, Apo­strophs, Prosopopeis, and other as well rhethoricall [Page 53] figures, as Poeticall flowers, which to take in a proper and of rigorous sence, is folly, to vrge them as points & articles faith, is such a solemne foolery, that it may seeme the next degree to madnesse. Ouerth. pag. 40. Hee should know the difference be­twixt an Euangelist, and a Poet, a Gospell and a Poeme, rigid trueth, and figuratiue speech, Articles of Faith, and poeticall fancies.

Is not this to shift off their Idolatrous appeales, their mentall, and Ouerth. pag. 44. imaginary petitions to the Poets pen? Doth hee not plainely proclaime their Church Hymnes to be Ibid. figuratiue poems, and poeticall fancies? Thus for all the world did his Grandsire Harding play his prize, saying it was not blasphemy, but spirituall dalliance, to bid the Virgin command her Sonne, and to shew her selfe to be a mother.

Calls hee this dalliance? there is no iesting with edge-tooles: their So he stileth the Author of this poeme. graue, learned, and venera­ble Fathers I see are merrie men, to dally with the Queene of Heauen, as children with puppets, to whom they speake in as sober sadnesse, as if they did vnder­stand what goshipping meant.

Then doth IABAL daunce after his pipe. The verses which Master Crashawe taxed for too much saucinesse were these.

This speech, saith IABAL, is imagined to shew the great familiaritie, betwixt Christ, and his blessed Mother, that she hath a speciall interest in the ioyes, and comforts [Page 54] (metaphorically termed milke) that flow into the Soule, by the deuout contemplation of her blessed breasts; which com­forts are not granted, but to whom she doth singularly fa­uour, nor giuen without her consent.

Nimia familiaritas parit contemptum: this ex­position is farre fetch'd, deare bought, and fit for his Ladies tooth.

Indeed he Ouerth. pag. 40. confesseth that herein the recreation of some Catholiques was especially intended: as if any true Christian heart could take any comfort, to see Christ so degraded, as to become a suppliant to his [...]. Mother: so debarred that hee cannot grant spiri­tuall comforts, but by her consent.

Hee plaies the Tinker vp and downe; hee stops one hole, and makes two.

It is an old saying, Iniquum petas vt aequum fe­ras: Because he would haue no question made, but that the Virgin may be sollicited to be a mediator to her sonne, he takes it for granted, that in contemplati­on Christ may be imagined to sue vnto her; as if reli­gious meditation had no better ground, then impossi­ble and vnwarranted supposition.

What doe you talke of contemplation? For that he puts Ouerth. pag 44. Riccius and Puentes to schoole: Will you heare his positions? When one doth meditate (saith hee) on the Virgins Ouerth. pag. 41. breastes as shee is Gods mother, the obiect is equal to the obiect we thinke of in the wounds and bloud of Christ. And why? Because in the breasts of the Virgin, as shee is Gods mother, we must needes con­template and behold Christ in her Virginall armes. Nay more, For a man to runne to Christs bloud, which was [Page 55] shed to clense sinners; is a token that he doth acknowledge himselfe a sinner, and a needie suppliant: but to Ouerth. pag. 47. approach the Virgins breasts, which were not filled with milke, but only to nurse the Sonne of God, and comfort th'especiall deuoted to Christs blessed child-hood, might seeme to sauor of pride, and arrogancie.

The very relation of these vncouth phrases, is a sufficient confutation. His diuinitie mee thinkes speakes a strange language: The A poeticall conceit, saith he, may be rai­sed of small ground or fan­cie. Ouerth. pa. 47. obiect of the Vir­gins breasts is equall to the obiect of Christs wounds; To runne to Christs bloud is humilitie, to approach the Vir­gins breasts arrogancie; these are new Positions, ney­ther haue they beene long acquainted, for th'one is at daggers drawing with th'other. If the obiects bee equall, they cannot but admit like accesse to a reli­gious minde. But is there no difference betweene that which is an obiect terminatiue per se, as the Scire Chri­stum crucifixum wounds of Christ, and that which is an obiect rela­tiue per accidens, as the Virgins breasts? Is the Finis coronat opus. con­summation, or the Initiation of more esteeme? Quod efficit tale magis est tale. If there were any such ima­ginarie vertue as Iabal supposeth in the Virgins breasts, whence did it proceed, but from the child of her wombe, for whom alone (hee saith) it was prepared? If for him alone, then are they like to find her a drie Nurse and to get a simple sope; that come so long af­ter the weaning. I would gladly bee informed what Scriptures we haue to draw vs to this obiect.

Iabal will not bee found in his Chamber at Pag. 199. Cacopolis, when he should bring in his authoritie; It must be faine to staie vpon the first Ouerth. pag. 44. operation of his [Page 56] owne vnderstanding. His she-pupills must apprehendit, without Ibid. iudging it to be so as they apprehend.

He would faine countenance this his ima­ginarie dreame, with an instance of Ouerth. pag. 41 Saint Austens deuotion, who brake out into these words: In medio positus, quò me vertam nescio: Hinc pascor à vulnere: Hinc lactor ab vbere; where that holy Father was at a stand, Whether hee should more admire his Sauiour blee­ding on the Crosse, or sucking of his mothers Causa sine qua non. breasts. So comfortable, and meritorious was his ineffable hu­militie in th'one, and his matchlesse Charitie in th'o­ther, that hee speaketh Metonymically (naming the breasts for him that suck'd the breasts) it is to bee at­tributed to the like tone and cadence, which his sen­tences doe ordinarily affect: for on the sudden I can­not call to mind where he directs vs to repaire to the Virgins breasts for spirituall comforts.

If it sauour of pride and arrogancie to ap­proach vnto them, we will be content to leaue them to the pontificiall soaring spirits: our humilitie shall content it selfe to know Christ and him crucified. Had not the blessed Virgin her selfe fed vpon this obiect, the milke of her breastes would not haue slaked the thirst of her soule:

Had I beene at his elbow, I could haue hel­ped him to a merrie Fable, which I once heard rela­ted out of Friar In serm. Dom. prim. post. Oct. Epiph. pag. 25. Ieremie. That there was a certaine man, who euery day deuoutly saluted the Virgin with an Aue Marie, dying notwithstanding in mor­tall sin afterwards: And when, (I tremble to speake) the Deuils would haue seized vpon his soule, the [Page 57] Angels, (O comfortable message) bad them staie, till sentence were giuen by Christ. Then were all his sinnes put in one Scale, (marry hee told mee not by whom the Ballance was held) and the Ideo dicit Ec­clesia ad ipsam in Hym. Mon­stra [...]e esse ma­trem. Aue Maries in the other: vpon which the Blessed Virgin no sooner laid her helping hand, but it ouer weiged the first by many ounces. And so the Virgin obtai­ned that hee might be restored to life againe, to doe further pennance. Here had bin a proofe for Iabal, begond D. la. sol.

Vnlesse we were sure of a day, as long Nox facta est longior, Plaut.as Alc­menaes night, we must make more hast. Iabal hath with a pretie slight drawne vs into a Labyrinth: for whereas the Counter snarle branded his Poets penne, with reference to his Ouerthrow. pag. 37. he cunningly fetcheth a Pag. 20. circuit, and meets him pag. 164. and takes that which was quoted of Sedulius the Poet, to be meant of Bernardinus the Preacher.

Rachil knowes how to turne the Cat in the panne, to sing two partes in one, as well as the best Chaunter in the Popes Quire: wherefore that we may at last take our tune in a right Key, let vs heare what he hath to justifie Sedulius his figuratiue inuocation of the All hayle O Crosse. Crosse; What can it say for it selfe, why it should passe without a fye?

He hath gotten a protection from the practise of the Prophet Cap. 45. v. 8. Isayah, who by the like figure, spea­keth to the heauens and clouds, to send downe the Sauiour of Mankind. O you heauens, (saith he) poure downe your dew, and let the cloudes raine downe the Sa­uiour: This praier (saith Iabal) is ment vnto God that [Page 58] ruleth in the Heauens, and the Cloudes; though see­mingly directed to the very Heauens and Cloudes.

He might haue learned from the Counter-snarle to haue distinguished between an hyperboli­call exaggeration and a superstitious obsecration. Yet doth he come ouer my Master with a why not, say­ing, Why may not a Theologicall inuocation be vttered in a figuratiue speech?

First let him prooue Inuocation to bee due to the Pari ratione Adorentur pu [...]l­lae virgines prae­sepia, veteres panni: adorentur naues, adorentur Asini quia Asel­lum insidendo ad Hierusalem vs­que peruenit. Claud. Tauri­nen. Crosse, and then will wee not stand with him for the figure. Figures are to bee vsed as ornaments of the truth, not as shelters of falshood. Did Isaiah fall downe to the Cloudes, and worship them, as they the Crosse? Did he say All haile O Cloudes, as they, All haile O Crosse, increase Iustice and Righteousnesse in god­ly men, and grant pardon to the guiltie. If not, then quor­sum haec? as iust as Germans lippes, nine mile a sun­der.

His Seraphicall Doctor Thomas Thomas su­per Isayam. cap. 45. Aquinas made no such collection out of that text of Isayah: his words are these, Hic describit natiuitatem Cyri sub Metaphora fructus arboris, ad cuius generationem requiri­tur humor terrae & pluuia, & ros de coelo. Here he descri­beth the birth of Cyrus, by the metaphor of the fruit of a tree, to the ripening whereof there must concurre, the moistnes of the earth, & the dew of heauen. The truth is, let him take the words in what sence he will, eyther literally of Cyrus, or according to Saint Hierome, Ti­pically of Christ, the context makes it euident, that the Prophet speakes not in his owne person as a Non sunt ver­ba hominis pre­cantis, sed Dei imperantis. sup­pliant, but in the person of God, whose imperatiue [Page 59] mandamus, for the comfort of all true Israelites, hee there Prophetically recordeth.

If this bee his best colour, a little shoure wil wash it of; We doe not find that the Prophet praied vnto the Angels, wherefore it is not probable, hee would eyther worship or direct religious petitions to the sencelesse Cloudes. Indeed hee Isay c. 1. v. 2. [...]. elsewhere cals vpon the Heauens, and the Earth to heare; but with what intent? only to vpbraid the stupiditie of the gracelesse people, who stopped their eares like the death Adder: Super Isayam. Cap. 45. Inuocatur Creatura (saith Tho­mas) vt arbiter trangressionis in iudicium, quae fuit testis obligationis ad praeceptum.

If this be his doughtie argument it is like to proue but a woodden Crosse. Iabal must cast a bet­ter figure, if he meane to rayse any spirituall adora­tion thereunto. To put no difference betweene speaking to the cloudes, and praying to the Crosse argues a dull Dowist indeed. But are we not yet past his odoriferous Fyes? I verily thinke Augaeus did not put Hercules to more drudgerie in emptying his sta­ble, then he hath done vs, in turning ouer this vnsa­uourie trash.

Yes, he now bringeth in his Compurgators to free him from th'imputation of those slanderous Lyes, wherewith he is iustly charged.

They must be of his owne ranke or else he must giue vs leaue to put them by.

Then must wee expect a goodly Fraterni­tic, rather then faile hee will foist in a Pag. 27 Knight of the Post to backe his false Assertions, or else some of [Page 60] those Fryers, whose portraiture Stephen Gardiner de­lineateth in this forme. The Deuill Against Ioy. pag. 5. quoth he, to haue man idle, and void of good workes, procured out Par­dons from Rome, wherein Heauen was sold for a little monie: And for to retaile that Merchandize, he vsed Fri­ers for his Ministers. Now they be gone, with all their trumpery, both the Merchandize is abhorred, and the Ministers also; We cannot away with the Fryers, ne can a­bide the name. So that wee haue reason to except a­gainst these.

I perswade my selfe he will hardly find any so brazen-faced, as to auerre that In Ouerth. pag 239. England Mini­sters sometimes presume to giue Baptisme in the iuice of hearbes, or flowers, as in Rose water, which Iabal scan­dalously professeth, that he hath credibly heard.

Malice it self cannot be so purblind, as not to discerne in what Limbeck this water was distilled, which hath so strong a relish of a Cretian braine. If this bee not a Lye in Folio, wee must confesse, there can nothing but trueth droppe from a Shauelings penne.

The fume of the holy water, wherewith he besprinckled his Ladies, was in his nose when hee breathed out this notorious fiction. Yet of the twaine, I had rather be dip'd ouer head and eares in Rosewater, then haue such a goatish Gorgonius to spit in my mouth.

There is no remedie but his imaginarie sup­posals must passe as currant Oracles. If the Pope can not erre, you must thinke a Priest cannot lie. If hee taxe our Ministers as being Pag. 27. skilfull in taking of pur­ses, [Page 61] or as ordinary students in Ouerth. pag. 53. impure bookes, his crea­tures vnder peril of a praemunire, are bound to second his leaden Legends, with their credulous assent.

Hee would not bee so busie in blasting our Ministers, did he remember the letter, which a Fry­er brought from hell to certaine Priests of his owne Order; the tenor whereof was this. Principes tene­brarum, Principibus Ecclesiarum Salutem. Gratias vo­bis referimus, quia quot vobis commissi, tot sunt nobis missi.

You say well, Fryer In sermone de f [...]to Sancti [...]las [...] pag. 36. b. Ieremy hath registred it vpon record, wherefore Iabal hath reason to be­leeue it: but I feare the poore Fryer is like to haue but a simple fee for his paines.

Rachil shall be sure to haue my voice for the whetstone; he dwells among such kind neighbours that he hath a credible author alwaies at hand, to set wings vpon his deprauing quill, which he cannot in­dure to be stopped in the praecipitate flight.

It sore grieued the heart of honest Helme­tius to see the prophanesse of that tribe. Henr. Helme­tiu [...] T [...]m. 3. Ser. Se [...]n dic [...]r­ [...]e [...]s. Heu, heu, (saith hee) ipsis lenonibus impudentiores, et carnaliores sunt multi Sacerdotes, et Scurris secleratiores. T'is well he hath nothing to charge vs withal, but that which hee gathereth from factious rumours spread by maleuelous spirits, to bring our persons and do­ctrine into contempt. Yet as if his cares were made of touchston to try the truth, hee stands to iustifie whatsoeu [...]r he hath heard, though it swell ten times bigger by the touch of his venemous penne. Harke how hee takes on with the Knight: You cannot Fides non cogitur. be­leeue [Page 62] (saith hee) that à Gentleman of honour, from my Lord De la Wares owne mouth brought me newes, that he could not get of your Vniuersities, more then one Minister, to go to the Euangelicall voyage of Virginia.

The Knight should bee ill aduised to cope with such a Chimney-sweeper as this Rachil is, from whom he shall get nothing but soot, though he giue him the foyle. What hope can there be of good dea­ling from him, who is neuer destitute of some ho­nourable person or other, to Father his misbegotten fictions? who will not beleeue the testimony of a Gentleman of Honour? the very title gaines credite wheresoeuer it goes. Thus will hee coyne what he please, with th'impresse of his owne sinister imagina­tion. But first let vs haue assurance of his good be­hauiour, if he would haue vs beleeue, that hee hath such a familiar conuerse, with men of that note: o­therwise we cannot but suspect his authors witte, in the prodigall emptying of newes to such a blabbe, who hath no more hold of his tongue, then he wold seeme to haue of his Pag. 27. purse.

Well; because hee shall bee beholding vnto vs, let vs graunt first that the founder was honoura­ble, though perhaps no better man then Iabal: Se­condly that the relation was true, which my Ma­ster doth not gaine-say; what will hee thence in­ferre?

Nay for Logicall deductions let him alone, hee will hale his intent with a Cart-rope of forced Absurdities, rather then faile of his purpose; Witnesse these consequences: Sir Edward is said to loue Preface Wine [Page 63] and Sugar; Ergo when hee wrote, the Pag. 56. single Lampe doubled in his eye, which hapneth to them that loue wine, when they haue their Cup in their hand. Ergo in Father Pag. 94. Ennius case. Againe, Sir Edward can repeat more then a piece of Augustine without a prompter; Ergo he hath the large Pag. 3. Volumes of that learned Father without booke. And his Pag. 85. nose did not smoake so much as his Chimneys, Ergo he hath a big nose: with a million of such sandy Well besee­ming a Bango­ring disputant. Pag. 168. Enthymems.

Is this the Pag. 84. rigour of Logicke? this is right, Baculus stat in angulo. Ergo, Tobies Dogge wagg'd his taile. If this bee the validity of his inuincible argu­ments, he must be faine to sell his Preface. cloth of siluer, and costly merchandize, or else he will hardly maintaine those halt & maimed reasons, which will loose their limbes in this conflict. His best way will bee to giue them a Pasport to beg for releefe.

He professeth that hee did Pag. 13. seriously vnder­take this taske, therefore I would gladly be informed what disparagement can be fastened vpon our Mini­stery, from the Paucity of Virginean Preachers.

Marry want of zeale, as rather Ouerth. pag. 320. conuerting themselues to their wiues, then bringing Heathens, and Sa­uages, vnto God. For my part (saith he) I make no doubt but had there beene a married Ministry in the Church in former ages, most nations had beene vnconuerted at this daie.

As if our Academicks, who are Fellowes of Colledges (whom he vpbraideth) were maried men, then had he spoken somewhat to the purpose: but (not to put him besides his opinionatiue coniecture) [Page 64] hee should rather haue commended their discretion. For though they had neither wiues nor parochiall charges to detaine them, yet might they well think to do little good, the language of that people being not yet vnderstood by those of the first plantation. Moreouer it is not fit that students in Diuinity shold be of Iabalis gadding humour, to runne rashly into forraine parts, without the Campian had order frō his Prouost, as he professeth before hee vn­dertooke his voyage. command of authority; Neither had authority reason to send, before they had lawfull power of command in the Territoryes of the Infidells. As soone as Commerce hath bred greater familiarity, he may assure himselfe, the La­bourers shall not be few. And for the conuersion of the Indies, wherewith he seemes to confront vs, the Christian world hath taken sufficient notice. It was wrought rather ore gladij, then Gladio oris, with the point of the sword, then with the dint of argument; o­therwise their tyrannous and auaricious proiects had beene enough to driue them from the faith; though they had beene somewhat addicted thereunto be­fore.

These and many more reasons might the Knight haue alleaged, which he rather chose to leaue to his manuring, to whose purchase that subiect did apper­taine. The Libellers inquisitiue curiosity, in stuffing his booke with heare-sayes, and reports, was that a­gainst which he did inueigh, as holding it not fit for a priuate obscure fellow, to intermeddle in the Secre­cies of priuy Counsellers, much lesse in the mana­ging of publique affaires, wherin there are many ab­struse mysteries farre aboue common reach.

[Page 65]

But did hee not tearme his Country-men Ouerth. pag 81. Parlamentariens? Did hee not couertly exclude that glorious Queenes Ghost, from the company of her Auncestors? Dares he put a mentiri also vpon these?

Howsoeuer hee vnderstand the word Nec tales ali­bi s [...]cile [...] tot. Aug. Con. Iul. Par­lamentarians, we may count it the great happines of our English nation, that they who deserued the greatest interest in that name, haue testified their re­ligious and well disposed minds in such a kind, as Ia­ball will either vnwillingly heare, or hardly beleeue. S. Margarets Church at Westminster (where vpon the seuenteenth of Aprill last, To the num­ber of 409. that day present. the whole house of Com­mons then arriued, by their owne voluntary order receiued the Communion together) can sufficiently testifie the vnanimity of their consent, the piety, loy­alty, and charity of their affections; Neither was a­ny after admitted into that house, vntill hee had gi­uen testimony of his sincerity by seconding the same.

If this be the fruit of Parlamentarians, then out of doubt the Popes cake is dow: Antichrist will be soone out of heart and hope, for euer displaying his holy banner vpon Britaines Soyle. It is not the suppo­sed rusticity of one mans pen, that can make that na­tion bee reputed either Clownish or infamous, which hath variety of such worthy and well disposed Bur­gesses. But let vs heare how hee shifts off that impli­cite censure, whereby he debarred the late Queenes soule from accompanying her predecessours. His words are yet extant in this forme. This Queene is now gathered to her Father ( Ouerth. pag. 104. I cannot say Fathers) seeing not [Page 66] one of her noble Auncestors besides him, were of her faith, nor he but in part.)

Iabal shewes himselfe a man of valour, hee will not budge an inch from his worde, hee now Pag. 25. bounds this his shameles Parenthesis with a strong fence. Why should his company (saith he) seeme disho­nourable to that Saint? Do you feare he may marry with his daughter in that world, as it is Marke his old Demon­stration. reported hee did in this? Or do you glaunce at the doubtfulnesse of her bloud, that perchance not the King, but some other put to death with her mother, was indeed her true father?

He mends the matter well, and speaks like a graue Diuine: this is a right model of Romish cha­rity. Had Iabals Grandfather blurted out halfe so much, his head would haue beene soone set higher then his hands could haue well reached, his clothes would haue dropped into the hang mans budget.

The wrong complained of was in consor­ting her with her Father, but in sequestring them both from the rest of their royall progenitors, thogh it please him to cast doubts with his wit, for his Ca­tholique partiality to decide. But if none of her fore­fathers were of her Faith, then was there no small iniustice in the Pope to Vide Do­ctor Whites de­fence. ca. 6. Numb. 3. depose, and murther so many of them, by his regular Agents. No maruell if feare compelled many of them to conceale their Faith, where there was such apparance of hazarding their Crownes.

Wee must confesse her Father was a man, and so subiect to infirmities, which yet had bin much lesse, had they not beene fuelled by the Popes tem­porizing [Page 67] dispensations. He was also a potent King, & so subiect to vniust detractions. But were old Bishop Longland his Confessor now aliue, he would take vp Iabal for Hawks-meate, and teach him a tricke for blowing the dust of dead Princes into the eyes of li­uing posterity.

What was the opinion of that reuerend Pre­late, touching that King, whom Iabal collyeth with his sinister and causlesse doubts.

You shall heare him deliuer his mind in his owne In Epist. prae­si [...]. Psal. peni­tent. phrase. Huius eruditio singularis, prudentia sum­ma, moderatio certa, temperantia mira, patientia firma, benignitas absoluta, pietas admiranda, iudicium graue, perspicax, solidum, et perfectum, virtutum omnium ex­ercitatio quotidiana. Thus doth hee extoll that King, whose renowne Iabal seekes so to ecclipse, by the in­terposition of an incestuous crime. Nay he doth not sticke to say, Psalmorum quos Dauid octo beatitudini­bus praeditus conscripsit interpretationes, ad Henricum e­ius nominis Octauum inuictissimum Angliae regem spe­ctant: concluding that whatsoeuer was eminent in Dauids vertues, was euery way appliable to Henry the eight; Cui (saith he) cum caeteris earundem beatitu­dinum candidatis, in octaua illa aetate salus et gloria non dubitanter expectantur. So that till Iabals credit bee held equiualent with the Bishops worth; wee must craue leaue to beleeue him, to whom the King was best knowne.

Had he not named Henry the eight, I should verily haue thought, I had heard a viue descriptiō of that Noble Lady, that Match-lesse Princesse Queen [Page 68] Elizabeth in whom all these rare qualities had such a visible essence: and had her Father beene silent, she should yet haue beene Ex quouis lig­no non fit Mer­curius. more then probablie iud­ged, to be the royal Fortes crean­tur fortibus & bonis. daughter of so great a King.

I would not wish his brother the Iewsewite of Portugall to stir this Pamphletter too much, if hee do he wil not spare to impeach his own mothers ho­nesty to prooue him illegitimate. If all men were of my minde, there should none vow Virginity, seeing there is so little respect of a Virgin Queene.

You see how tender his conscience is, in bolting out his owne coniectures against the dead, the hemme of whose garments hee was vnworthie to touch; What hath hee more to say? Let vs heare him out to the last period.

He will not yeeld that he was hyred by the Pag. 27. Ladies liberall purse-promises; this is a base surmise: Education hath made him too proud, to stoop to such base cares. Hee (good man) is content with the inexhaust trea­sure of his prouidence, who feedeth the birds of the ayre.

Tis wel experience hath yet at last made those honorable Ladies wiser, then to wast their husbands patrimonies vpon such Epicures, whose bellies are deeper then the bottom lesse pit. Let them once rid their hands of these Locustes, and I dare vndertake their Lords wil turn purchasers: Whersoeuer these leane Kine come, they will soone deuoure the fattest Mannor: both head, hide, and hoofe; they will make no bones of a Lordship. It must be an inexhaust trea­sure indeed, that can stop a Popelings mouth; wit­nesse those infinite reuenewes, not farre inferiour to [Page 69] those of the Crowne, which that Antichristian beast did suck, out of this little Ile. I thinke the Popes haue beene well payed for their pretended conuersion of this Land, so that it is now injustice for their hire­lings to Ouerth. pag. 323. twit vs in the teeth therewith any more being answered to the full.

Sure Rachil hath better fortune then all his fellowes, that he is growne so carelesse of coyne: his poore Camragues of Doway (who thinke themselues not inferiour) complaine of their Preface to the Dowy Bi­ble. poore estate in banishment. Had they had Iabals purse, their trans­lation of the old testament should not haue lien so long vpon their hands.

There is great reason they shold Socij laboris participes mer­cedis. part stakes. But do you obserue their iugling? when they would haue their Ladies strech their purse-strings, then they complaine of poore estate, pretending extreame po­uertie; though they haue enough of the old store, to fee the traiterous Agents to weary the presse with scandalous vntruths, & to trouble whole States, with seditious garboiles: but when they are accused as mercenarie hirelings, aiming rather at the disgrace of particular persons, then the trial of the truth; then forsooth they scorne the motion, then Pag. 27. our Mini­sters are more skilfull in taking other mens purses, then they are in keeping their owne.

He professeth, if he may bee credited vpon his word, that he was not a pennie richer by that de­ceased Ladie, who was thought to giue the first pecu­niarie incouragement to his pen.

Me thinkes I smell a Rat, for a wager here [Page 70] is a cast of equiuocation. Hee was not a pennie richer by her. vizt. after shee renounced the Romish trash: and with this reseruation, I dare sweare Rachil speaks truth.

Nay he heard a Well fare Nicholas Nemo he will help at a pinch. Pag. 22. namelesse Knight of bet­ter credit then your Master, auouch that shee died in the Catholike faith.

That is in the faith which Protestants hold to be Catholike: Otherwise shee would neuer haue sought for new seruants, of another lare, to bee pla­ced about her; neyther would she haue heard diuine Seruice (though secretly) according to our English Lyturgie, nor refused confession: happily shee was not throughly resolued in all points, neyther was it Omnis subita mutatio pericu­losa. possible, that an habit so long continued, should be so suddenly remoued. The truth is, shee found her selfe so wearied with the Ignatian fopperies, that she could not indure their accesse, which some of them did not well digest.

Then here is the Catastrophe of this Scene: his next Chapter is wholy Elenchticall; but seeing he can no better defend him selfe, there is no great like­lihood he should much offend vs. By my consent in this his next materiall tract, Ne inquam & inquit saepius interponerentur. Cic. Non tam ser­uiendum venus­tati Dialogorum quam materiae commoditati, cum stultum fo­ret maiorem vti­litatem propter minorem negli­gere. Laur. Val. de. vol. lib. 3 Iabal shal haue a course to speake in his owne person, so shall our Dialogue make a full messe.

Then enter Doctor Iabal, thou shalt haue my good leaue to play the Proloquutor.

CHAP. II. The Macchabees vnthronized.

I Pag. 26. should not match my selfe with such contemptible aduer­saries, by whose ouerthrow, profit (and that eternall) may accrew vnto them, smal praise redound to my selfe, by the conquest of scolding and femi­nine Antagonists; Yet Pag. 3. now seeing you prouoke me there­vnto, I will Pag. 29. boldly suruey the Knights Hell, or Letter against Purgatorie. The Pref. Iudicious Reader will not wonder that your rude hammering with heauie reproa­ches on the Rocke of truth, doth fetch out some liuely sparks of iust disdaine.

What! contemptible aduersaries? Quod efficit tale magis tale. scol­ding & feminine Antagonists? rude hammering? Iust disdaine? so blunt at the first dash? are these your [Page 72] Doway salutations? Tis well, Master Maior, we haue your companie to keepe the peace. Out of doubt the Doctor hath pissed on a nettle: his Nurse was too blame, she should haue giuen him more stamp'd Grunsill in his milke, hee is so exceedingly troubled with the fret.

Surely Sir (with your fauour) I see no such reason for your contemptuous disdaine. If you stand vpon your Schollershippe, I dare say our Vicar hath gone as long to Schoole; If vpon your place, I would you should know, I am not the meanest man in my Corporation; Or if the opinion of your wit, haue blowne vp the emptie bladder of this your swolne conceit, here is honest Nick a boone Lad, one that Nouit & is lepidas audire et reddere voces. knowes how to take, and returne a iest, as well as the best youth in the Parish. I dare vndertake hee shall hold you play to the last cast: alwaies prouided that there doe no Pref. smoakie mists of personall Scoffes against the Knight his Master vampe from your marish mouth, for then hee will bee as hot as a toste, you shall find hee will carrie no coales, if once you touch his copie-hold.

Then shall we not need to decline this sur­uey Singulis pro persona & dig­nitate orationem assignauinius. th'opponent being thus fitted ad omnia qua­re; whether he be material, facete, or verbal, he shalbe met withall vpon equall termes with his owne wea­pons in his owne kind: Wherefore Domine IABAL rem aggredere: what pag. 29. Folly and Falshood can you discouer in the Knights Letter to T. H?

If pag. 30. lying killeth the soule, what are the Knights leaues but a dead letter, wherein there are grosse and in­excusable [Page 73] corruptions of the most learned of the Ancient Fathers, concerning a point of highest importance, to wit the Canonicall authoritie of the Booke of Macchabees, where Purgatorie, and other points of Catholike Doctrine, which you peremptorily denie, are directly proued.

I cannot blame you for so high esteeming the Booke of Macchabees. If that Lock bee once cut off, your strength for the maintenance of Pur­gatorie will soone faile. If that Cesterne yeeld you no water, your tongue will cleaue to the roofe of your mouth, for want of that moysture, which now makes it so glibbe; your Prayer for the dead will bee then soone put to silence, and enforced to begge Pa­tronage from the Legends. Well I doubt not but you wil be driuen from that Holde before this com­bate be at an end. In the meane season you may doe well to acquaint vs with the grosse, and inexcusable corruptions, wherewith you charge the Knights Let­ter, as iniurious to the most learned of the Ancient Fa­thers.

His Pag. 34. Letter to proue that the Machabees were Canonicall in Saint Aug. Iudgment saith in this sort. It is not our surmise, that Saint Augustine seemeth to signifie so much, who elsewhere, to wit, in the Booke De Mirabi­libus sacrae Scripturae doth plainly and determinately saie, That they are not of the diuine Canon.

Nay good Doctor, let vs haue faire play. Shew mee where hee endeauours to proue that the Macchabees were Canonicall? and we wil be easily in­treated to yeeld you the bucklers: hee pleades and proues the contrarie throughout his discourse. Be­sides [Page 74] it is no honest dealing to insert a Parenthesis in­to your Aduersaries text. These wordes (to wit in the Booke De mirabilibus sacrae Scripturae) beare the counterfeit stamp of your owne will. The Knight saith only, that Saint Aug. elsewhere excludeth them from the Diuine Canon; for proofe whereof hee doth in the same page cite his words Contra Gaudent. and for the better passage hereof, he premiseth a testi­monie out of the booke De Mirabilibus, written Anno Domini 627. which he margents with Saint Augu­stines name, as being to bee found only amongest his tomes.

Ouerth. pag. 134. Was not Sir Edward (thinke you) here bobbed by the Bachelor or some Lecturer? He Ouerth. pag. 133. citeth the Booke de Mirabilibus by their directions as Saint Augustines, which all learned men with one consent discard from the number, as a Booke of no account. Can Ouerth. pag. 134. any staine to his Knighthood be greater, then to bee thought so notorious a Falsifier of so great and learned a Father, euen in print?

Is this so inexpiable an errour, that no sa­tisfaction may redeeme? I had thought his manie reasons alleadged in the Counter-snarle would haue giuen content to any judicious eye, but I perceiue malice will hold the least aduantage with tooth and naile.

Did Pag. 34. he only note in the margent where that Booke and sentence might bee found, and not resolute­ly auerre in his text, that it was plainly, and determinate­ly his saying?

I must be your Eccho, He did only note in the [Page 75] margent. And you must know there is great diffe­rence, betweene a cursorie marginall note, and a re­solute textuall assertion. It might haue sufficed you, that that Booke was very neare a thousand yeare old long (as he tels you) before Luther was born; and of such esteeme that it was annexed to his writings, who was then most eminent. So ancient a testimonie could not but giue a great Shake to the Macchabees.

But Pag. 34. why did hee cite it for Saint Augu­stines, against his conscience and knowledge, as hee since confesseth?

You may as well aske Ludouicus Viualdus why in the very text of his Tractate, De Veritate Con­tritionis. pag. 31. he citeth the same father for a say­ing taken out of the Booke De duodecim Abusio­num gradibus, saying, Haec Augustinus: whereas in the 42. page of the said Booke hee maketh this ac­knowledgement of the same worke; Hic liber à qui­busdam ascribitur Hugoni de Sancto Victore, Alij vero tribuunt Cypriano. You might haue done well to haue taken him to schoole, and taught him neuer to haue cited that Booke, without that tedious Appen­dix. So should Augustine haue beene well attended, with a man or two still waiting at his heeles.

Verily the good man would haue taken it ill at his hands who should haue laid Ignorance or Fraude to his charge: To haue taxed him with Pag. 37. Reseruations, and Equiuocations in his writings about matters of Religion, to deceiue his lesse warie Readers, had beene an irrecompensable wrong; Yet is hee in the same praedicament with the Knight. Euerie penne [Page 76] (especially in marginall directs) is not patient at all times of such tedious circumlocutions. The quo­ting of the place where the sentence may bee found, freeth the Author from the suspition of fraudulent trickes. It was neyther his Ignorance nor Fraude that he so quoted it, but a strong presumption of his Ad­uersaries skill, whom hee deemed no stranger to the worst retainor to Saint Augustines workes.

I would gladly be inform'd how you would haue had my master alleage that place. Had the margent been blanke, the coherence perhaps would haue carried it as S. Augustines speech, whereas now the Reader hath a reference to the place, here hee may bee informed, both of the Antiquity and cre­dit of the Author, and so passe his censure as he shall find cause.

Pag. 31. Had it been any discredit to haue confessed those quotations were by some Minister suggested vnto him? your valiant writer and Deane Doctour Morton, was he not driuen dy his aduersaries to acknowledge that he had taken some corrupted testimonies of our Authors vp­on the credit of Iohn Stocke, and R. C?

See how modesty creepes vpon Doctour Smooth-bootes. O how iealous he would seeme to be of my masters credit, which hee spareth not to ouer­lay at his pleasure, with Cart-loades of kitchin-stuffe scraped from the sluttish sides of his owne greazie kettles!

How corrupt the testimonies of your owne Authors are I will not take vpon me to iudge, but (as I haue heard) R. Stock hath satisfied for himselfe, & [Page 77] these eyes haue seene a sufficient discharge for the other in a late learned Encounter against Master Par­sons; so that the Obiector hath little cause to glory, vnlesse it bee in his owne shame. As for the Knight, howsoeuer you may thinke him beholding vnto you Pag. 31. for deuising in his defence such an honourable ex­cuse, hee needeth neither your deuice nor defence, that being no lesse preiudiciall to the sincerity of his entendments, then this In beneficio habendum non est, sub honoris specie contume­liam pati. dishonorable to his perso­nall endowments. Your quaint deuises (fittest for crack'd causes) will I feare be too thinne to fence your owne head from a fatall blow.

He shall not need to Father this quotation vpon any Minister: what will you say Doctor Iabal, if the Knight be able to produce this booke so fathe­red vpon S. Augustine, without your distinction of Pag. 38. Anonymi cuiusdam, euen by your owne disputants? I hope you will then confesse, this Reseruation was worth the concealing, to hit the nayle home to the head at the last blow.

What Iabal! who hath cast milke in your face? neuer change countenance for the matter.

Pag. 30. All learned men by one consent discard it from that number as a booke of no account. It is a most grosse and inexcusable Corruption suggested by some notorious falsificator, trencher Schoole-master, or Mercenary Le­cturer, perchance euen by Master Crashaw himselfe.

Your ayme then is this: whosoeuer allea­geth the booke De Mirabilibus vnder S. Augustines name, is a Notorious &c. But beeing some two mo­neths since with Sir Edward vpon occasion of a Ken­tish [Page 78] Library which was to be sold, he shewed me the same booke so cited, not onely by Confess. Au­gustin. l. 4. c. 10. Sect. 6. Hierom Torren­sis, to prooue Enoch in viuis adhuc esse, et vnemquem (que) recipere spiritum sanctum in baptismo; but also by your renowned Confes. Petri­kon. ca. 80. Hosius, to prooue Esdram restituisse libros legis. Now Nick make you the conclusion.

Ergo Iabals consorts must deuide the Noto­rious falsifier betweene them: Ergo Iabal might haue spared a number of wast words: Ergo these Popini­ans haue more skill of Pag. 33. trenchers then of Authors: Ergo the Church of Rome hath played many such false tricks: Ergo, it was either their Pag. 36. ignorance that indeed they thought that booke was his; or their fraud which made them vtter what they knew was false, to deceiue the Rea­der: Ergo their Editions both auncient and Moderne, doe either not at all, or not so visibly, distinguish these supposititious works from those of the auncient Fa­thers, with Anonymi cuiusdam in euery page, as our Pag. 38. Bibles do disioyne the Apocrypha from the Canoni­call Scriptures; Ergo, if Iabal haue the least graine of wit, or grace, he will giue no more such swinge to his vnruly and pettish pen.

Doctor Iabal, vnlesse you be partiall, these in­ferences must needs be graunted, they are your own vpon the like supposition. Tis fit euery bird should haue her owne feathers. That which you dare not disallow in your owne writers, must not so seuerely be prosecuted against ours. It pitties me to see how you are plunged. The Knight is able to teach twen­ty such fabling disputants. I cannot but smile to thinke how artificially he hath trayn'd you along to [Page 79] bewray your want of Wit, and surplusage of malice. Let this be a warning vnto you, in your next worke to be more considerate. For now the notorious falshood (wherewith you haue beene so inraged) Pag. 41. cleaues so fast to your fingers, that vnlesse you haue somewhat else of greater moment to say, you must be faine to rub them rudely vpon your owne Coat.

The Ibid. second place he brought out of S. Augustine against the booke of Machabees, was a sentence in his book against the Epistle to Gaudentius, against which my accu­sation was that his Minister had added the last sentence, containing the substance of the matter, vnto Saint Au­gustine.

You should rather tell vs how honest and modest an answere you receaued. This last clause (saith he) I wonder how it should passe my sight in the re­view: for perusing my first draught I find go written short in another letter, to distinguish my inference from Augu­stines proofe. It seemeth either my Manuaries hast, or the Printers misprision hath turned go into sed, as if the same had beene continued, which former error made them omit (consequently) in the English reddition.

That there was a short go in his first draught seemes not very probable, for Pag. 42. what likenesse is there betweene go and sed that his Manuary or printer should take the one for the other?

Nay read it with Sed as it was printed; and then you shall hardly find common sence. Machabaeo­rum Scriptura recepta est ab ecclesia non inutiliter, si so­brie legatur, vel audiatur, maxime propter istos Martyres Macchabaeos, sed ob hanc causam in Canone morum non [Page 80] fidei censcriposset, This sed ob hanc causam doth not re­lish of a Schollars penne, which should rather bee, et ob hanc causam. So that you may well thinke the Knight was not so simple, in so grosse a manner wit­tingly to make that sweet Father speake gibbrish in a Dialect so vnlike his owne; you are a happy man whose lines doe passe the Presse without any scarre.

I pray you what likenesse is there between Sacer dotes and Scortatores? yet as I haue heard my master say; in one Edition of the new Testament set out at Coleyn, in steed of these words. 1. Cor. 6.9. Ne (que) Scortato­res regnū dei possidebunt, he hath found it thus printed: Ne (que) Sacerdotes regnum dei possidebunt. I hope you will not challenge the Printer for allusion to your olde trade. I perswade my selfe it was his misprision, though some haue thought hee did it to cry quit­tance with his wiues Confessour. I hope this was more then the change of one poore sillable, the tayle of the g being the same with a Romane s: and a run­ning o. not vnprobably to be supposed to haue lost the head of a d. through hast of a speedy pen. To put vt for at is no such capitall crime.

You should rather demand of him, what like­nesse there is between 34. and 42. 169. and 168. 176. and 172. Such errours are so frequent in his booke, that it must of necessity cause wrong quotations: yet in my conscience I do not thinke the Doctor was ac­cessary to these, or the like scapes wherewith his lines doe abound. Tis like the Printer thought hee had no great good match of your booke: Had hee not misdoubted the currant sale thereof, hee would [Page 81] haue had a more vigilant eye ouer the presse: this his presage made him put Pag. 63. N. 43 lin. 6. giue for deny. Io. lin. 8. Indeleble for vndeniable. Pag. 92: N. 3. Edition for Reddition. Pag. 101. N. 13. Deuised for deuided. Pag. 52. N. 29 long for low. Pag. 129. N. 6. Ioyned for moued. Pag. 180. N. 27, Burned for drowned, Pa. 40. N. 15 was for (his old seruiceable attendant) As. The surplusage, and defect of many other words giues vs iust cause to suspect either the Printers care, or the Authors skill: so that you may well winke at such small faults, as the scape of a Monosyllable or two.

Why Pag. 42. should he make his Inference in Latin, wri­ting in English? what English Author vseth that idle manner of Writing but himselfe?

As if a Schollar being in his owne Element may not be easily carried away with a strong imagi­nation that he is in the Schooles, especially writing to a Schollar about Theologicall questions. This I haue many times obserued in the Knight, that it is yrksom vnto him to write any thing Verbatim, which hath passed his penne before, neither doth hee without vrgent necessity render that authority in English, which hee hath quoted in Latin. All wittes haue not the patience alike to endure the repetition of the same things, and such for the most part take that first, which first offereth it selfe and may bee dis­patched with fewest Characters taking vp the least roome.

Whether his Inference were in Latine or English, it is litigium de forma; I am sure he vouched S. Hieromes In praef. lib. Sal authority, that the Church read the book of Machabees for the edification of the common people, [Page 82] but receaued them not amongst the Canonicall Scriptures, for the authorizing of Ecclesiasticall decrees: which was as much as the Knight intended by secluding them from the Canon of Faith.

This is nothing to the purpose Pag. 43. to proue S. Au­gustine did reiect them, who might bee contrary to S. Hie­rome in this point, not beeing then defined by any generall Councell.

S. Hierome contrary to S. Augustine? Is not this goodly Rhetorique to draw the Ladies to build their faith vpon the writings of the ancient Fathers? Is there any more then one truth? Either the booke of Machabees is Canonicall, or not. You say S. Au­gustine auerrs it; wee proue that S. Hierome, Lyra, Bri­to, Rabanus, Caietan, &c. deny it. Whom shall your Creatures beleeue? Will you suffer them to haue such reeling and tottering Consciences?

Pag. 44. Caietan, whom he citeth, iumps not altogether with your conceit, and though he did, his sayings are not o­racles with vs.

This kind of disputing will neither get you a Miter, nor a Cardinalls Hatte. Set you so light by the head-men of your parish? Good Dctour let vs know to whose verdit you will stand: dare you say to S. Augustines? are all his sayings Oracles in your Church? Nay saith In Act. Apost. cap. 1. p. 9. a. Lorinus, Augustinus incertum putat an Iste Theophilus idem sit, cui Lucas Euangelium et Acta nuncupauerit: Atqui res certa videtur. The Di­uines of [...]. De Trinit. l. 9. c. 2. in Marg. Louane lay Sophistry to his charge. So likewise writeth your Iesuite Comment. in Iohan. 6.53. Maldonate, Augusti­ni et Innocentij primi sententia fuit, quae sexcentos fere [Page 83] annos viguit in ecclesia, Eucharistiam etiam infantibus ne­cessariam esse, quae tandem ab ecclesia reiecta est. The opi­nion of Augustine and Innocentius the first, which was re­ceiued in the Church well nigh sixe hundred yeares, was this: that the Eucharist was necessarily to bee ministred vnto Infants, which at length is reiected by the church. Negare non possumus, saith In Thom. disp 154. cap. 2. & 3. Vazquez, praedictam opi­nionem fuisse Augustini et Fulgentij, a qua non multum Gregorius Magnus abhorret, tamen meo iudicio probabi­lior, eos nulla alia paena quam damni, id est priuatione bea­titudinis, puniri. Albeit we cannot deny that Ser. 14. de verb. Apost. et l. 5. cont. Iuliā. c. 8. Aug. and Fulgentius did teach that Infants dying without Baptisme did presently descend into the place of the damned, to be sensibly tormented in hell-fire, yet notwithstanding in my iudgement it is more probable that they vndergoe no other punishment, then the losse and priuation of beatitude. The like censure doth Concor. E­uang. tom. 1. lib. 7. ca. 8, Barradius passe vpon Euthymius. Hocloco (saith he) Euthymius non recte de Virgine sanctissima haec scripsit: Non credidit sicut Zacharias &c. Procul a Christiano pe­ctore et auribus huiusmodi sint verba. Thus doth your Church spunge out the opinions of the anci­ent Fathers, vpon whom you seem so stedfastlie to relye.

Then it seems the matter is not great, what S. Augustines opinion was touching the Legitimati­on of the Machabees, seeing his words are no Oracles, euen with the Doctors of the Romish Church; and the rather because the booke (according to Iabals confession) was not then naturalized, by the consent of any Occumenicall Couacell.

[Page 84]

This is a prettie slight: The Fathers are but as feathers when they doe not stick to the Pope­lings. I trow Saint Hierome shall find more fauour at your hands.

Saint Pag. 43. Hierome may seeme to speake acoording to the opinion of the Hebrewes, as hee vseth to doe, not in his owne.

This shift is fetch'd beyond the circumfe­rence of all probable Appararance. Hee speakes in the In Pref. l [...]b. Salomonis. present (not in the preterperfect) tense of the Church then being: Legit ECCLESIA, sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit. Yea by way of toleration he deliuers his minde permissiuely thus, Legat Ecclesia ad edificationem plebis, (yet with this Li­mitation) non ad authoritatem dogmatum Ecclesiastico­rum confirmandam. De Ciuit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38. Yea S. Augustine himselfe con­fesseth that one and the same man may write some thinges historica diligentia, which (though proceeding from himselfe) may serue ad vbertatem cognitionis: and other things ex inspiratione diuina, which must be receiued ad authoritatem religionis.

Those Pag. 43. wordes come short of your summe, to proue your Protestant distinction of the Canon of Man­ners, and Canon of faith.

I grant Saint Hieromes sentence doth not deliuer these wordes in so many explicite sillables, yet doth it necessarily imply as much in the impli­cite sence. The Church readeth them for the edification of the people, therefore they are in the Canon of Manners, and serue to the bettering of knowledge: The Church receiueth them not amongest the Canonicall [Page 85] Scriptures, Therefore they are not in the Canon of faith, as tending to th'authoritie of Religion.

Euerie booke Ibid. that may bee read for edifica­tion in the Church, may not bee termed a rule of Man­ners. What is iust with the rule of Manners, is certainly good; But actions aacording to these bookes wee speake of, the Knight granteth may bee wicked. For example, to kill himselfe, is a thing vnlawfull, yet it is conformable to those actions, that he saith are praysed in the Macchabees: How then can they bee the Canon and Rule of Man­ners?

Besides the Primarie and Diuine Canon of Manners, properly so called (I meane the Canonicall Scripture) which is absolutely to bee receiued, as wholy authenticall, by and in it selfe, there is also a Subordinate Ecclesiasticall rule, which by vertue of Concordance, is so farre to bee admitted for a rule, as it is consonant to the first. Thus the Macchabees from So we call that awedge of Gold wherein there is some drosse. the best and greatest part, (which is certainly good) may deriuatiuely receiue the Denomination of the Canon of Manners, albeit some little portion there­of be not leuelled and squared according to the first vnerrable squire. This Deuiation though it exclude not the reading of the rest, which may serue as a Sub­sidiarie promoter of edification, yet can it not but debarre the whole from the Supremacie of In Apocriphis etsi inuenitur a­liqua veritas ta­men propter multa falsa nulla est Canonica autho­ritas. Aug. de Ciuit. Dei. lib. 15. cap. 23. Ca­nonicall esteeme.

Sir, It is your courtesie thus to explane your selfe. Yet vnder correction you doe not well to flie after the Doctors Lure. It is sufficient for you that Saint A Diuo Hiero­nimo extra Ca­nonicos libros supputantur, & inter Apocripha locantur, &c. Ad Hieronimi limā reducenda sunt tam verba Conciliorum quam Doctorum. Caietan. ad fin. comment. in l. hist. Vet. Test. Hieromes vndeniable testimonie hath ex­planed [Page 86] Saint Augustines, Si Sobriè: by which, though the toleration of the Macchabees bee permitted, yet the Canonization is vtterly Maximè propter istos Martyres Ma­chabaeos. disanulled. It be­longeth to his taske to prooue them to bee of the Di­uine Canon, which hee shall more easily attempt, then accomplish, seeing Saint Augustine himselfe confesseth, that the Ancient Iewes (vtriusque tabulae custodes) did not receiue them, as they did the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalmes: So that it will bee a point of no small difficultie (without some Night-Ghosts reuelation) to shew by what warrant or meanes the Church of Christ was after moued to a­dopt them.

I could Pag. 58. ioyne with Saint Augustine other Fa­thers, no lesse ancient then hee, canonizing the same bookes, but his testimonie may suffice alone, which brin­geth with it the authoritie of the Church in his dayes.

Alas poore Doctor Bragge, this is but a cop­pie of your countenance: you will make but a mean liuing, by singing Solus cum Solo; I trowe Master Vi­car wilbee able to vie fathers, as fast as you. Your Mastershippe may perhaps finde a Counter for the Post, but you dare not for your eares bee in at the Payre.

Verily I thinke Clichtoueus was more then halfe a Prophet, hee doth so visibly deschipher the guise of our Disputant, as if hee were here present. Iudocus Cli­ctoueus in Epist. ad Franciscum Molinum. Alij sunt (saith hee) qui non nisi suo credunt con­silio, & quod semel asseruerunt, volunt oraculo solidius vt haberi. Alij autem authoritatula vna, aut vnius scri­bentis dicto, vt equus capistro retinentur, & caeteros as­pernaentur, [Page 87] qui ea de re aut dixerunt aut scripserunt.

Sir, it is faire play to till this gamester on by reseruing the best card till the last tricke. The An­cient records of the Church shall be produced when they shall strike all dead; for the present, I thinke I shall sufficiently discharge my part, if I make good the Knights argument out of S. Augustines ground to ratifie our conclusion.

Herein shall you not bestow your paines amisse.

Then thus: Counters. pa. 41 In Holy Canonicall Scripture there is no Diuine precept or permission to bee found, that either to gaine Immortalitie, or to escape any peril, we may Placuit vt hi qui per ferrum aut praecipitium sibi ipsis mortem inferunt nulla pro illis in obla­tione commemo­ratio fiat. Concil. Bracaren. 1. ca. 34 make away with our selues, But Razias (mentioned in the Macchabees) is commended for a fact of this kind: Er­go His non adhi­betur fides in quibus etiam contra fidem li­brorum Canoni­corum quaedam leguntur. Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38 they are not Canonicall.

It was Pag. 49. farre from Saint Augustines grauitie to read the Macchabees with so little Sobrietie, as to thinke that Razias was praysed for killing himselfe: Pag. 51. writing against the Circumcellians, hee doth often teach, and largely prooue, that Razias was not commendable for that fact, which the Scripture did report, not prayse.

I will not presse you with tautologies, ney­ther would I willingly bring Lyram ad Asinum, vn­lesse you were a better Musitian. Lyraes record is ex­tant, that Lyra in 2. Mach. cap. 14 the Scripture of that Booke which is receiued by the Church to be read for the Informa­tion of Manners, doth not seeme to reprooue Ra­zias, but rather to commend him, for killing him­selfe, &c.

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This is Pag. 51. false, and against the minde of Saint Augustine who denies it expressely, Pag. 49 neyther is Lyraes Doctrine to the purpose.

If you grant that Saint Augustine was one of the principall Doctors of the Church, then listen a while to Ludouicus Viualdus De veritate cōtritiouis. fol. 52. De Razia (saith he) nobilissimo milite legimus in 2. lib. Mach, &c. quòd scip­sum [...]. animose ac magnifice in mortem dederit, cuius mors commendatur, ac landibus extollitur A DOCTO­RIBVS CATHOLICIS, eo quod ob reuerentiam Dei, atque ob salutem boni publici consummata fuerit. We read of Razias, &c. Whose death is commended, and highly extolled by the CATHOLIQVE DOCTORS.

Was this the opinion of Catholique Do­ctors in Viualdus his age? then it seemes Saint Augu­stine was either not well vnderstood, or not reputed in that ranke, or that those Doctors haue since chan­ged their mindes: Howsoeuer the Minor, viz. that Razias is commended for that fact, hath the warrant of the Catholique Doctors, as also of Ludouicus and Lyra, maugre the spurning of your Wilde Asses Pag. 62 Colt: Therefore the conclusion, that the Macchabees are not Canonicall, must by vertue of Augustines ground bee returned with the Pag. 46. Goose and Woodcock vnto your owne keeping.

Saint Ibid. Augustines Eagle hath alreadie pick't out their eyes, and put them to flight; they beginne to droop and hang the wings, so that they will haue little maw to shew their heads any more on this Coast.

Is Pag. 58 it not credible that some fathers who denie [Page 89] these bookes were ignorant of the Churches warrant rather then Saint Aug. so rash and presumptuous as to canonize them without it.

Lord what shift the Doctor makes to get loose! his strugling makes mee remember the com­plaint of an Laurent. Val­la de volup. l. 1. elegant writer which may well be­seeme Master Rachils eares: Quid facias prauis ingenijs quae tergiuer santur, & manifestis rationibus repugnant, nec se à veritate capi sinunt?

Nay on my word hee begins to deale more plainly, then I expected. For whereas before he did set Saint Hierome and Sant Augustine at oddes, ma­king no more account of Caietans pearles then ordi­nary pebbles, it is to be attributed to the chollericke fit, wherewith he was ouertaken: But now vpon bet­ter and more mature deliberation hee speakes by the book, and tels vs that some Fathers deny these books. Yet heerein he is not well aduised, in that to free S Augu­stine from rashnesse and presumption, hee sticks not to charge the rest with ignorance.

In very deede Doctor, you are an vngrati­ous child, not worthy of your Mothers blessing. Wil you make the Fathers of your Church ignorant in the warrant of your Church? Shall they bee admit­ted to teach others in doubtfull controuersies of faith, who are themselues to seeke in the Canon of Hagiographicall Scripture, which is the ground of faith? I cannot thinke, that if the foure first generall Councels had receiued these books into the Canon, they would haue beene eyther so ignorant, or so rash and presumptuous, as to haue disallowed them.

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Why Pag. 50. should not the Bookes of Machabees be sa­cred, though they prayse Razias for this fact, as well as the Booke of Iudges, where Sampson is praysed, who did the like? If this be Saint Augustines sentence which the Knight cites out Ibid. of Lyra, that hee did that fact by speciall instinct of the Holy Ghost, who doth not see that your argument to proue the Machabees not to be Scripture, is not worth a rush?

Whether Saint Augustine were of this mind or no, the Knight referred it to Lyraes report, who there relates (as he Counters. p. 45 sayth) eyther the verie words, or the receiued sence. The Knight doth not perempto­rily take vpon him to iustifie the words to haue pro­ceeded from Augustines pen: hee only presumed so farre vpon the Readers patience, as to write out what Lyra there wrote (without any distinction of Character) touching the general opinion of the com­mendation of Razias his fact: wherein as Lyra Lyra in 2. Mach. cap. 14 speakes, some thought Saint Augustine did beare a part.

Whether it were Augustines assertion, or Lyraes relation, it was sufficient to proue the Minor, viz. That Razias his murther was there praysed. But how will you answer the like of Sampson, which Ia­bal bringeth out of the Booke of Iudges? this maie seeme to inferre a secret addition to Augustine his ground. Where hee sayth No Canonicall Booke doth commend or praise killing ones selfe, Iabal by way of sup­position annexeth this clause, viz. without speciall in­stinct of the Holy Ghost.

Master Vicar you thinke Beggars haue [Page 91] no Lice. VVho would haue looked for this from the Groome? It is fit you should stop this gap.

Had Razias killed himselfe by that speciall instinct, then would not Saint Augustine haue ventu­red to censure this fact as worthie reproofe: but (as you say) he proues against the Circumcellians, that Ra­zias was Pag. 51. not commendable for that fact, which the Scripture did report, not praise. Besides, the text ascribes it to his own choice, saying, Eligens potius nobiliter mo­ri: that he chose rather to die 2. Mach cap. 14. vers 42. nobly. Thomas A­quinas also frees the spirit from that motion in this verdit. Quidam (saith hee) seipsos Secund. 2 Quaest. 64. art. 5. ad Quint. interfecerunt, ae­stimantes se fortiter agere, de quorum numero Razias fuit: non tamen est vera fortitudo, sed magis quaedam mollities animi. Thus doth hee brand it as an aberra­tion from true fortitude, which defect is not inci­dent to that spirit, which leades into all truth.

You may spare your paines for anie further proofe, the Doctor I thinke is of your minde in this. It pleased him by occasion of that report which the Knight laid vpon Lyraes penne, touching some mens construction of Augustines sence, and Razias his fact, to play the Questionist, and to make a doubt of that, wherein it seemes by his silence hee holds himselfe now satisfied.

Then cannot the Booke of Machabees bee sacred, which both by euidence of the text, and th' assent of the Catholique Doctors, doth prayse Ra­zias for that, whch true fortitude doth disclaime, and Canonicall Scripture disallow.

Truly Saint Augustine Pag. 52. doth so often clearly [Page 92] and peremptorily auouch the Charter of the Machabees, which confirmeth Purgatorie, to bee sacred, that I wonder any man that hath read his workes, wil vndertake to proue the contrarie. When he makes the Catalogue of Canonicall Bookes, doth not he ranke these with the rest? Did hee not subscribe to the Councell of Carthage where those Bookes were canonized?

This is that which the Knight did wisely foresee and cautelously labour to preuent. Hee fea­red least his aduersarie might be ouer-swayed by mi­staking of the word Canonicall, which is sometimes taken largely, to signfie aswel the Bookes that might concerne the Rule of Manners, as those which serue for the foundation of the doctrine of Faith, in which sence your Father and Councell are to be vnderstood: whereas the same word in the strict and proper signi­fication, doth only comprehend the Bookes, which agree with the Canon of the Hebrewes, according to the generall consent of the Ancient Fathers of all Churches, before the dayes of Saint Augustine. To this end, hee sent no worse Letter to T.H. pag. 62. Messenger to cleare this doubt; then a person, eminent, both by name and place; I meane that famous Cardinall Cajetan. Ne tur­beris Nouitie (saith he) Si alicubi reperias libros istos in­ter Canonicos supputari. Cum hac distinctione poteris dis­cernere dicta Augustini, & scripta in Concilio Prouin­ciali Carthaginensi. Hee tels you that they are thus to be vnderstood, as also that none but Nouices in the writing of the Ancient Fathers will trouble them­selues, by making any question in so apparāt a truth.

Iabal hath well requited him for his paines: [Page 93] I trow he hath sent the Cardinall away with a flea in his eare. If Caietan had beene Pope, hee would haue beene twice aduised, before he had so rudely reiected his Oracles. My fellow Iack Footeman would haue no great Maw, to carry a Message to such a currish Swaine, from whom hee expects no better entertain­ment.

Caietan I wis, had more wit in his little fin­ger, then Iabal in his whole body, Beati Pacifici was his aime. Should such hot-spurres as our Nouice haue beene made Arbitrators, there would haue beene such a broyle amongst the Fathers as would not be easily reconciled. For if you take away this fauourable & most probable distinction, you should soone see a field pitch'd betweene Vide Admon. praefix. Concord. Bibliorum per haered. Wecheli. Cyril, Cyprian, O­rigen, Si quid extra haec inuenitur, inter adulteri­nos libros nu­merandum est. Greg. Nazian. Nazian zene, Anthonin. Summ. maior. Par [...]. 3. tit. 18. cap. 6. § 2. Hierome, Alij libri sunt qui non Canonici sed Ecclesiastici a maioribus ap­pellati sunt: eius­dem ordinis To­biae, Iudith et Machabaeorum libri. Ruffi. in Symbol. fol. 575. Ruffinus, Epipha­nius, Sunt Cano­nici veteris te­stamenti libri viginti duo l [...]te­ris baebraicis nu­mero par [...]s. A­ [...]ban. ex Synopsi. Athanasius, Eusebius, and Gregory, on th'one side discarding them: and Augustine, the Councell of Carthage, & Trent, on th'other part defending them. When this pitch'd battel should haue beene fought, the Romanists might haue sought our valiant Sanga vnder the Trundle-bedde, till the hurly burly had beene at at end: vnlesse they had pluckt him out by the heeles, no perswasion would haue drawne him to shew his face; they are all so peremptory and plaine, against the Canonizing of these Apogriphall bookes. This was not vnknowne to the Cardinal: who was thereby induced to thinke that S. Augu­stine tooke the word Canonicall in the larger sence, as comprehending the Ecclesiasticall writings, within the verge thereof.

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Had it beene an error an the Iewes not to haue receiued these bookes, as they did the Law, and the Prophets; I cannot thinke, but that Christ or his Apo­stles would surely haue reproued so notable a crime, seeing they were not meale-mouthed in the repre­hension of lesser faults. And whereas we receiue this maine benefit by the Apostacy of the Iewes, that ther­by the world (seeing them enemies vnto the Messi­as) cannot but giue the greater credence to the bookes of th'old Testament, without suspect of par­tiality, which otherwise might haue beene doub­ted: the adopting of these other Apocriphall into the Canon, were as much as in vs lieth to vilifie th'au­thority of their authentique records, who may not improbably be thought to haue taken in those that were adulterine, as well as to haue degraded those that are found to haue beene diuine.

If all other reasons were mute, me thinkes the Author, Matter, and Manner of the history, might well make an ingenuous person very sparing in the defence. The Author, if wee may credit the Vide Zanch. de diuin. attrib. lib. 4. ca. 4. enlar­ging Epitomizer of these bookes, is 2. Mac. 2.23. Iason Cirenaeus a Spiritu sancto inspirati loquuti sunt sancti Dei homines. 2. Pet. cap. 1. v. 21. heathen man (for-sooth) a fit Secretarie for the Court of heauen. It seemes pen-men were then as scanty, (as sometimes 1. Sam. c. 13. v. 19. Smiths) in Palestine. This must needs bee [...] which requireth so much 2. Mac. 2. v. 26. watching, sweating, and pains in the refining. Calamus Scribae velociter scribentis, would haue eased all this toyle, which is not to bee feared, where the Omniscient spirit is the Dictator. As touching the matter, it is wouen in a webbe of such palpable con­tradictions, [Page 95] that a man who regardeth his credit would be sorry at his heart, to bee taken tripping in such contrary tales. One while 1. Mach. c. 6. v. 16. Antiochus died for griefe in Babilon. Another while hee was slaine in the Temple of 2. Mac. c. 1. v. 13. Nanea, where his head was cut off. And yet is not Antiochus out of his paine; As if he had as many liues as a Cat, you shal see him stalke once more vpon this historicall Stage; and then at last fall downe and dye, with a most noysome stin­king smell, consumed with 2. Mach. c. 9. v. 9. Ducit ad inferos & [...] educit. wormes. Indeede I must needs say he is very modest in the deliuery: He writes not Math. 7. v. 29. [...] as one who had the custody of the mint, to warrant the mettle whereunto he had put his stampe, but [...], for the [...]. pleasure, and recreation of the reader. Had he had the warrant of the spirit, hee would haue spared the labour of begging fauor, and suing out a pardon, for which hee is faine to crowch to the Readers gentle­nesse.

Then had the holy Father S. Augustin good cause to say, that they are receiued profitably if they bee read Soberly. For if they should bee read with a precipitate opinion as Canonicall Scriptures in the strict sence: the many leakes which are transparant in them, would goe very neere to sinke th'authority of the rest.

It appeareth by that testimony against the Epistle of Gaudentius, that the Christians gaue that authority to those Pag. 55. bookes, which the Iewes did not grant vnto them: that the Church did set them vp in the throne, from which the Synagogue had kept them; which was the [Page 96] Imperiall throne of sacred Authority. Otherwise S. Au­gustins opposition, The Iews did not, but The Church doth, were vaine.

The opposition (if any) stands not in the de­gree, but rather beareth the sence of a preuention. For as much as the Iewes, from whom the old sacred records were originally deriued, would not enter them into the Diuine Canon, it could not but occa­sion many considerate Christians vtterly to cashere them. For the auoiding heereof S. Augustine, seeing they might tend to some good vse, tells vs that albe­it the Iewes did not receiue them as Canonicall, yet the Church receiued them not vnprofitably, if they bee read soberly. He saith not, that the Church receiued them into higher authority then the Iewes: but as books which might serue to as good purpose, if they were read warily amongst vs, as they did among the Iewes. Neither doth hee say Recipienda est Scriptura Machabeorum, as implying an vndeniable necessity; but recepta est non mutiliter, as noting a voluntary ac­ceptance vpon a probable end, with th'addition of this Prouiso, if they be read soberly: which, howsoeuer you otherwise deeme, cannot be fitly spoken of Ca­nonicall writ, which is necessarily to be embraced, and is alwaies profitable to the Church, which euer­more bringeth Sobriety to the reading thereof: nei­ther is it any lesse behoofull to the Church, though it be peruerted by reprobates to their owne damna­tion. But as for humane writings, the case is other­wise: they are then onely receiued profitably by the Church, when they are read warily. A good man [Page 97] by attributing too much to an vnwarrantable ground (of which sort the sacred writ affoordeth none) may make a faulty inference: which mooued Saint Augustine to insinuate, that there are rocks by which he would haue vs warily to saile.

What if wee admit (for disputation sake) that S. Augustine deliuereth this, as his resolute opi­nion in Iabals sence? I would gladly learne what rea­son hee can yeeld, why this should ouer-sway the ioynt iudgement, and consent, of so many far more ancient Fathers, who teach the contrary.

Pag. 59. Caluin doth allow him the style of the best and most faithfull witnesse of Antiquity: how can hee then be excused from great temerity, if heerein he erred?

Errare humanum est: The spirit of God alone is free from errour. The It was law­ful to contradict the Fathers and doubt of them. Guido de Haeres. c. 7. Church euen in his daies was somewhat clowded with the mists of supersti­tion. Had he not an Eagles eye, he could hardly haue discouered those beames, which Antichrist had then laid in the way: It was hard, if not impossible, for one man to discerne euery mote, which then houered in the aire of the Papall regiment.

Pag. 60. This sentence may suffice alone, to giue any Iu­dicious eare to vnderstand your opposition with S. Au­gustine.

Wee honour his memory as a blessed Saint, from whose pen the Church of God hath receiued ineffable good, and wee account it not the least part of our happinesse, that for one seeming testimony, which you wrest to serue your owne turne, wee are able to shew a million to right our cause.

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Can you deny that S. Augustine taught our Ca­tholique doctrine concerning the point of Merit? Pag. 62. Doth he not say, that as the wages due to sinne is death: so the wages due to righteousnesse is life eternall? And againe, The reward cannot go before merits, nor bee giuen before a man be worthy thereof: yea that God should be vniust, if he that is truly iust be not admitted into his kingdome, Can any Catholique speak more plainly then he doth of Merits?

These places doe not any whit crosse our doctrine against merit: The Analogy which he makes betweene Sinne and Death, Righteousnesse and life, consisteth not in the quality of Desert, but of the Deest gratiae qui [...] quid meritis deputas: Nolo meritum quod gratiam exclu­dit. B [...]n. super. Caen. Ser. 67. effect: Augustine saith not that the wages of righte­ousnesse, which is Heauen, is as due as the wages of sinne, which is death: th' Analogy is in regard of the consequent effect, to signifie, that heauen, the wages which is due to righteousnesse, shall as truly bee be­stowed vpon the faithfull, as Hell or Death, shall bee inflicted vpon the wicked. For if wee consider th'e­quality of desert, and condignity; there is according to the doctrine of S. Augustine, a threefold dispropor­tion. One in respect of the Rewarder, whose rewar­ding of sinne with eternall torment is the proper act of Iustice in it selfe: Whereas his rewarding of Righ­teousnesse, vpon them whom he hath accepted vnto Grace, is only the Iustice of his mercifull In illis opera saa glorificant: In [...]les opera non sua condemnant Fulgen. ad Mon. lib. 1. promise. Secondly in respect of the Subiect: for the Sinne which a wicked man committeth is properly his owne, but the righteousnesse of the Regenerate is the gift Opera bona habemus non ex nobis nata, sed à Deo donata. Fulg. ibidem. of God: so that the reward of death is more properly due to sinne, then is the reward of life vnto [Page 99] righteousnesse: Thirdly in regard of the obiect: be­cause the sinne of the wicked is perfectly imperfect, but the righteousnes of the most godly is imperfect­ly perfect, that is but a stained goodnesse, wherefore there cannot be an equall condignity in both.

We grant that the reward cannot goe before merites, nor bee giuen before a man bee wor­thy thereof: but Iabal must learne that these merits are Mors eius meritum meum. Aug. in Manual. c. 22. Christs, by the Imputation whereof, we that are altogether vnworthy of our selues, are made through Gods gracious acceptance of his sonnes obedience, worthy of this reward. Otherwise Non sunt condig­nae passiones, our greatest sufferings are not worthy of the least degree of glory which shall bee reuealed to the sonnes of God. Ephes. 2. v. 8. Gratia enim saluatis estis, saith the Apostle: For you are saued by Grace through Faith, and that not of your selues.

Fulgentius makes the case plaine in this gol­den sentence De praedest. [...] Mont [...]tum. lib. 1 Vnus Deus est qui gratis et vocat prae­destinatos, et iustificat vocatos, et glorificat iustificatos: and againe, Ibid. Sicut gratiae ipsius opus est cum facit iustos, sic gratiae ipsius erit cum faciet gloriosos Aug. in. Psal. 83. Debitorem se ipse Dominus fecit, saith S. Augustine, non accipiendo, sed promittendo: non ei dicitur, Redde quod accepisli, sed quod promisisti. God hath made himselfe a Debtor, not by receauing any thing from vs, but by the passing of his pro­mise vnto vs: wee say not to him, Render that thou hast receiued, but giue that which thou hast promised. And the same Tract. 3. in Io­han. Father, Non pro merito acciptes vitam aeter­nam, sed pro gratia. Thou shalt not receiue life eternall for merit, but for grace.

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How thinke you now of S. Augustines opi­nion touching merit? were you not vtterly deuoid of all shame, you would neuer haue cited him in this cause, wherein you finde him wholly averse. You were better scanne my Masters Letter, and let S. Au­gustine alone.

How Pag. 61. much reason I had to tearme his Let­ter vnlearned, you may iudge, by his laying together on an heape the points of Catholique Doctrine, which he mislikes. Whereof he thinks Purgatory to be the ground­worke. Is it not a learned enumeration, to make Me­rits, Masses, Vigils, Superaltaries, Noone-day-Lampes, Graines, Holy-water, Oyle, Salt, Spittle, &c. to haue not onely mutuall reference, but fundamentall depen­dance on Purgatory? What hath Salt, Oyle, Spittle, to doe with Purgatory? Though Purgatory should bee ouer­thrown, I see not why the former things, as also Merits, Christning, and Buriall Tapers, might not remaine, and be vsed as they are.

The deeper the foundation, the surer the building. My Master could lay their foundation no lower then Purgatorie, vnlesse he should haue set the corner stones in hell.

The Knight saw how Ieiunely his Aduersary pleaded for Purgatory, wherefore to induce him the better to ransack his vtmost endeauours, he thought fit som what hyperbolically to exaggerate the necessity of that defence, vpon the soliditie whereof so ma­nie other points had their whole dependance.

Sir I perceiue you will stand to your friend at a pinch. But in this case the Knight needs not your [Page 101] helpe. I hope the Doctor wil bee iudged by Eckbertus, who stands as stiffe for Purgatorie, and knew all the Creekes of that Channel, as well as the best Sculler that belongs to that Riuer. Hee writing against the Cathari speakes thus; Eckbertus ad­uers. Cathar. Serm. 1. Non recipiunt (sayth hee) esse purgatorias poenas, &c. Propterea ergo arbitrantur super­sluum et vanum esse orare pro mortuis, Eleemosynas dare, Missas celebrare, & irrident pulsationes campanarum. They doe not hold that there are Purgatorie paines: Therefore they thinke it vaine and superfluous, to praie for the dead, to giue Almes, to celebrate Masses, and they deride the tolling, or chiming of Bels. Who would thinke that the tolling of a Bell had any dependance vpon Purgatorie? Yet doth your owne Authour inferre the derision of them, as a Consequent vpon the refusall of the other, with a propterea ergo, which is more then a single Illatiue, Implying that if they had had any respect of Purgatorie, they would not haue made so light of Dirges and Bells.

It is an old Maxime, vitia, [...]. Maca­rius. Hom. 40 esse concathena­ta. Errors and vices are linked together, like Sampsons Foxes, by one end or other. If you take away Purgato­rie, the charge and paines which manie superstitious persons are at, about Indulgencies, Pilgrimages, Crosse-creepings, Oblations, Satisfactions, Lampes, Graines, Pi­ctures, Holy water, Oyle, and other (which they call ho­ly) vses, for the easement of th'afflicted soules of their deceased friends, would eyther in toto or in tanto bee abated. Besides I doe not thinke the Doctor can shew me any mention of this Riffe Raffe trash (according to the Romish ridiculous practise) till such time as Purga­torie was set on foot.

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What say you to the Macchabees, and the whole Church of God in those dayes that did practise prayers for soules in Purgatorie?

I had thought Master Vicar had put you out of hope of all succour from the Machabees. Will you neuer leaue begging the question? I would you would take the paines to read Macarius his 22. Homi­ly [...], there should you find the opinion of the Church in diebus illis. When the Soule (sayth he) steeteth out of the bodie, if it be guiltie of sinne, the Deuils come, and the powers of darke­nesse take it away: But as for the Saints and children of God, when their soules depart, the Quire of Angels are readie to receiue them, and bring them vnto the Lord. So that the prayer for the dead which you vrge, did not presuppose Purgatorie, as being rather a Commemo­ration and thankesgiuing for the Saints departed, which we doe not denie.

Perhaps Iabal meanes that Church, I mean that Ship which is steered by the supposed Papae stereus aurum putant Arabicum. succes­sor of Peter.

If that be all, Prayer for the dead will not hold out, vnlesse the Quod adimi­tur principali adimitur ac­cessorio. Pope can bee prooued greater then Peter. What Peters charter was, wee find in Bi­shop Longland in Ps. 101. p. 569. B. Longlands records vpon those wordes, Tu es Petrus & super hanc petram, &c. vpon which he com­ments thus. Notanter dixit super hanc petram, non su­per hunc Petrum, id est, non super vnum priuatum homi­nem, sed super hanc petram, hoc est, super stabilem huius fidei firmitatem, quam tu iam confessus es, & super fun­damentum neutiquam vacillans; vel aliter, super eam pe­tram, [Page 103] quam iamiudum confessus est Petrus, nimirum su­per ipsum Christum. So that a Popes Decree may bee fundamentum vacillans, and implies not the laudable practise of the Church.

Now is the Doctor almost besides the sad­dle. He hath lost one of his Stirrops: the authoritie of the Machabees, and the head of his Church haue receiued a foule foyle. Well Doctor, if this beene the first of your fiue Victories, then hath your Purgato­ries Iacke a Lent lost one of his best legges, and now stands vpon foure lame feet. It shall cost me the best point at my hose, but I wil haue one flurt at his Iacket, and turne him on his back.

CHAP. III. Purgatories Deduction Logically and Theo­logically disproued.

MAster Vicar, let mee craue one word in your eare. Me thinks Doctor Triumph stands now like the Embleme of Sure­tiship, with his head out of the little end of the home. Hee had an easie entrance into this argument: but being disappointed of his hold on the Machabees, he stickes by the shol­ders, and cannot get out; you may doe well to lend him your hand, or else this Parle will bee all da­shed.

Sir, seeing you haue taken vpon you Pur­gatories [Page 104] quarrell, and the Motists defence, we would gladly heare what you haue to say against the Knights answere, touching the deduction of Purga­torie from the wordes of Christ, Mat. 12.32. vpon which your fellow Romanists doe especially relie.

Christ in that Pag. 65. place saith of sinne against the Holy Ghost, that it shall be forgiuen neyther in this world, nor in the world to come, whence Catholiques inferre that some sinnes may be pardoned in the next World. For this text containeth both a distinction of two sorts of sinnes, some remissible, others irremissible; and of two places where remission may bee had, namely, in this present world, and the world to come; signifying that some sinnes may be remitted in the one place, some in the other, but Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost in neither. Whence followeth, seing the next world is the time of Iustice, that God doth not there remit sinnes, without exacting and inflicting the due punishment vnto the Authours, which is the Purgatorie the Catholique Church doth, and hath euer taught. This exposition no sooner soundeth in his eare, but his tongue waggeth in this sort. I pro­test I thought as much, you haue turned vp Noddy.

Doubtlesse you read the Knights booke with a perspectiue glasse, otherwise the Noddy which was sixe pages distant from the first proposall of this argument, would not haue sate so close vpon your brow. First, to she the vanitie of this Inference, he tels you that Saint Marke handling the same theame renders Saint Matthewes disiunctiue in this plaine Collectiue, that who so blasphemeth against [Page 105] the Holy Ghost, shall neuer haue forgiuenes, as being culpable of eternal dānation: secondly, to proue that this was (no simple but) an approued glosse in those dayes, he alleadgeth Athanasius, Hierome, Hillarie, and Ambrose, who made no other construction of those wordes, then that this Sinne should bee neuer forgiuen: Thirdly, by way of Concession he giueth allowance (in part) to your Inference, that some sinnes may bee said to bee pardoned in the world to come, viz. per Remissionis promulgationem, And so concludes Letter to T.H. pag. 32. that the Sinne against the Holy Ghost is here exaggerated by opposition to other Sinnes, in the depriuation of that double benefit whereof other Sinners penitent are capable. Now because he saw his Aduer­sarie did put the wordes on the Rack, making them speake that which was farre from the scope of the place, viz. that some Sinnes remissible are pardoned in the world to come, which were not formerly forgiuen in this world, he tels him indeed that in adding this last clause, he had turned vp Noddy; which gaming Meta­phor was not vnfitly applied to so trifling a disputant.

Pag. 65 He discourseth more like a Carpet Knight, then a sober Diuine, shewing more skil at Cardes, then of Scrip­tures.

Indeed he hath taught you a New Cut, viz. to deale more mercifully with the Scriptures, and more charitably with the Soules of your poore brethren. If eyther the rules of Logick, or the ver­dict of Ancients bee of any account, he hath turned this your deduction many specks out. And for ought I see, the more you draw, the further you are gone.

[Page 106]

How absurd the Inference is, it will easily appeare by the scope of the text, and the sence of the words. Our Sauiour there speaketh de reatu peccati, of the guilt of Sinne, saying, (non remittetur) and doth not specifie any paine to bee suffered for such sinnes, whose fault is forgiuen in this present life. Had he said, Hee that sinneth against the Holy Ghost shall not be vnpunished in this world, nor in the world to come, the Inference had not beene amisse: Ergo some sinnes are punished in the world to come, which are not punished in this world. But when hee sayth, it shall bee forgiuen ney­ther in this VVorld nor in the VVorld to come, it is a meere fallacie, to drawe the speech from the guilt to the punishment, inferring that some sinnes shall be punished in the next world, whose offence is forgiuen in this. The remission (from which that Su­perlatiue Sinner is debar'd) is an act of mercie, wher­in man is considered as a Patient, and therefore can­not be sutable to that time, and act of Iustice, where­of the Doctor dreameth▪ neyther can a sinne be said properly to be remitted, the due punishment wher­of th'offender hath condignely sustained. Hee that payes the vtmost farthing, is verie little beholding for the forgiuenesse of his debt. But if you will needs vncase this sentence of the figure wherewith it is beautified, I demaund whether doth our Sauiour speake of the guilt or of the punishment, or of both. If he say the guilt shall not be forgiuen in this world, nor in the world to come, then your deduction must be this, Ergo the guilt of some mortall sinnes shall [Page 107] bee remitted in the next world, which is not remit­ted in this; and so your Purgatorie (presupposing a former assoylement from the guilt) will haue no subsistence. If hee speake of the punishment, you must infer, Ergo some sinnes shall be punished in the next world, which are not punished in this: which as all men confesse, so doth it affoord no aduantage to your cause. If you say that he speaks of both Guilt and Punishment, then as well the Guilt as the Puni­shment of some mortall sinnes shalbe then remitted, which your Pag. 79 Suarez doth disclaime. So that you are verie nimble thus to fetch a crosse caper making the Lord of truth to speake of Guilt in the former, and of Punishment in the latter part, to serue your turne.

I would be loath to fast till Iabal get out of this Maze; should I stay for a solution, the pi [...]d Nag I feare would not come at Iames Parke this grasse. But you were in hand to speake something concer­ning the sence of the words.

Well remembred, I was about to shew the Doctor his error in making the World to come (which signifieth Mar [...]. 1 [...]. [...]. the last day) to note that middle space of time, which is now in present being, As long as time lasteth, this present world continueth: the world to come, commeth not till the date of time be cleane extinct, and then their owne confes­sion (making a full Gaole deliuerie) casheireth Purga­torie, as of no longer vse. Had our Sauiour said, It shall be forgiuen neyther in this life, nor in the life to come, there had beene some better colour for this In­ference, but by mentioning the world to come, [Page 108] (which being opposed to this present world, hath relation to the day of Iudgment, when no remission is to be expected) he implieth a necessarie Nullitie of anie future forgiuenesse after this life.

Vnder correction, I thinke a man might as well reason thus: If the time present be in respect of those that are deceased to bee tearmed the World to come; then much more may that Eternitie bee so cal­led, which followeth the day of the Lords last ad­uent. And so by vertue of this place taken properly in Iabals sence, some sins may then also be forgiuen, which were not formerly remitted: by which kind of pleading, a man might easily merit Origens fee. Besides should it bee granted that some sinnes are remitted in Iabals world, yet is there no necessarie consequence of the Satisfactorie fire of Purgatorie.

You cannot denie but this our Inference and ex­position of the former place is taught by Pag. 66. fiue or sixe Ancient and Holy Doctors, which the T. H. Motist citeth. Will your wisdome tearme them Noddies? Shal Saint Ber­nard, Venerable Bede, Saint Isidore bee put in the num­ber of Noddies? If you be an English Christian you cannot denie Saint Gregorie to be your Father. Heare what hee saith. Wee must beleeue that for some light faults there is a purgatorie fire before the day of Iudgement, because the truth doth say, If any shall vtter Blasphemie against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiuen in this World, nor in the world to come. In which saying we are giuen to vnder­stand that some sinnes may bee forgiuen in this world, and some in the next, for what is denied of one, it is cleare that consequently it is granted of the other. Thus [Page 109] didst thou write (blessed Saint) a thousand yeares agoe, euen when thy heart was fullest of comfort, for the conuer­sion of our Country. It would not a little haue allayed thy ioy hadst thou foreseene that

Such idle Rhetoricians, such seditious Iesu­ites, such superstitious Priests, such pompous succes­sors, such trayterous and bloudy Popinians should haue corrupted that faith, and made that Sea so infa­mous amongst the most remote nations, which both by heart and hand thou tookest so great paines to promote. This would haue allaid his ioy indeed.

As for your fiue or sixe auncient Doctors, you shall haue your answere both in weight and tale. In the meane while for this of Gregory (if it bee his owne) it may more then euidently appeare vnto your second suruey of these his Dialogues; that hee was by certaine idle apparitions and phantasticall Ghosts som what too easily induced (if not seduced) to fauor and further this opinion. Yet if you will bee pleased to let Gregory answere Gregory, listen what he Greg in 7. c. Iob. lib. 8. c. 8. elsewhere speaketh. Cum humani casus tempore siue sanctus, siue malignus spiritus, egredientem animum claustra carnis acceperit, in aeternum secum sine vlla per­mutatione retinebit, vt nec exaltata ad supplicium pro­ruat, nec mer sa aeternis supplicijs vltra ad remedium erep­tionis ascendat. To the same purpose is Gregory allea­ged by Nilus lib. de Purg. Nilus, auerring that the time after this life is for punition, not for purgation. In hac vita tantùm, saith S. Serm. 66. Augustine, poenitentiae patet libertas, post mortem nulla correction is licentia. Hoc tempus est poenitentiae, il­lud iudicij, saith S. In Serm de Euch. in Eucaen. Chrysostome: hoc agonum, illud coro­narum, [Page 110] hoc laboris, illud relaxationis. The same father Hom de Lazar. further tells vs, Dum hic fuerimus, spes habemus prae­claras,simulac vero discesserimus non est postea in nobis situm poenitere, ne (que) commissa diluere. Here we haue hope, but when we are once deceased, it is neither in our power to repent, nor to make satisfaction for those things which we haue done.

What thinke you of that Father whom the Knight named a Pag. 67. marble pillar, that euer-admired Augustine? Thus he writeth vpon our place of Scripture. It could not be truly said of some men, that their sinnes should not be forgiuen in this world, nor in the world to come, vnlesse there should be some men, who though they are not pardo­ned in this world, yet they should bee pardoned in the world to come.

This the Knight remooued with a writ vn­der the hand of Viues, who auerreth that these words are wanting in some ancient copies. So that iust suspi­tion may not improbably deeme them to haue been inserted by a second hand.

Yet Pag. 68.69. Viues addeth, Tamen stilus non abhorret ab Augustiniano: The stile dissenteth not from S. Augustines. Yea further he saith, that either in other copies of Saint Augustine the former wordes are found, or taken from some other worke of this Father they were heere in­serted.

Hee is a very simple Impostour that cannot iumpe with S. Augustines stile for a sentence or two. But is not heere olde handy pandy, when sentences shall be tossed from one place to another, without the Authors aduise? This inserting of sentences in [Page 111] wrong places, raiseth a different sence, and puts all out of ioynt. So that the Knight was not ill aduised to say, that it were ill with the Church if her saith were pinned Let. to T.H. pag. 7 [...]. on S. Augustines sleeue: not that hee misdoubted that holy fathers sincerity, but because he was too well acquainted with these Ioyners inter­lacing subtilty. And haue we not then great reason to stand to the sole trial of the Scriptures? or is it pos­sible these brabbles should haue an ende, as long as such authorities are vrged, which are elsewhere con­tradicted by th' authors themselues?

If we grant that this authority hath the right stampe of S. Augustines penne, yet will it not affoord fuell for the kindling (much lesse the maintai­ning) of Purgatory fire. He tells vs, (as you haue of­ten heard) that the Catholique faith knew but Aug. in lib. 5. [...]ypognost. two receptacles of soules departed, The kingdome of Hea­uen, and Hell. As for any third place hee saith penitus ignoramus, we know none; neither find wee any such mentioned in the holy Scriptures. And in his eigh­teenth Sermon, De verbis Apostoli, Duae habitationes sunt, vna in igne aeterno, altera in regno aeterno. So that howsoeuer there was in his daies some wauering conceit, yet was not the doctrine of Purgatory held then as a matter of Faith. And to that purpose hee Euchirid. c. 69 speaketh saying, It is not incred [...]ble that such a thing should chance after this life, and whether it bee so or no it may be questioned: and againe De ciuit. Dei. lib. 21. cap. 26. non redarguo quia for­san verum est, I do not denye it, because perhaps it is true. Thus haue you purchased a second forsitan to ac­company that which was freely giuen you by Viues [Page 112] his pen. As for other places where it is not expres­sed, it is necessarily to be vnderstood; for had he de­liuered his mind elsewhere positiuely, and apodectically heerein, I cannot see what should mooue him heere to shake his owne foundation, by making others to doubt of that, whereof himselfe was certainely assu­red. The best men (in which number S. Bernard may be reckoned) haue had through the corruption of time their pardonable errours. Sometimes they were led with the blazing starre of coniecture, and not alwaies with the day-starre of truth. So that we haue no warrant further to follow them (though they were Angels) then the guidance of Gods word.

Pag. 70. What can be sacred and certaine amongst Chri­stians, if an vnlearned Knight may be permitted to deride that, which the most famous Diuines, and Fathers of for­mer ages, do without the contradiction of any peremptori­ly deliuer, as an vndoubted verity?

Lord how the Noddy rumbles in Iabals sto­macke! how faine would hee disgorge it on the bo­some of the Fathers, of whom neuer man spake with greater respect then my master! As for those that are of our Doctors ranke, I must needs say hee casts the Noddy amongst them without a forsitan.

Indeed he doth Hierogliphick my name of Preface. I.R. in English, Latin, and Hebrew, making mee in the one Iack Roague, in the other Iscarioth de Rubigine, and Ish­mael Rashacheh in the third, wherwith he ioyneth the Sir­n [...]me of Cecropidan Licaonite.

Hee saw you were I.R.F. Trium literarum homo, therefore (for want of a better god-father) hee made [Page 113] bold to fit your Appellation according to your prae­dominant quality. And seeing there was no one word or single language able sufficiently to expresse your worth, hee thought fit by his variety, to make you knowne for a viperous Sesquipedalian in euery coast, where the frothy Libell of such a namelesse miscre­ant should arriue.

Had you saide (shamelesse) you had giuen him no more then his due. What will he not spare to speake, who dares auerre that the Fathers of former ages doe without the contradiction of any perempto­rily deliuer the doctrine of Purgatory, and the same exposition of this place, touching pardon in the next world? How waueringly S. Augustine speakes, his Forsitan back'd with an Ignoranius doth sufficiently declare. Macarius his dicotomy of two sole receptacles, doth exclude any opinion of a third. Chrysost. tells vs that God In Pre. e. in Isay. quando peccata abolet, nullam reliquam facit cica­tricem: Tertullian ioynes in the same peremptory as­sertion, Tertul. de Ba [...]t. exempt to reatu eximitur et poena. What think you of S. Hierome? doth he deserue to stand in your Kalendar of Fathers? As hee crossed you in your foundation of the Machabees, so doth hee mar your market and raze your whole building with this In Psal. 31. gra­dation. Quod tegitur non videtur, quod non videtur non imputatur, quod non imputatur non punietur. That which is couered, is not seene, that which is not seene, is not impu­ted, that which is not imputed shall not bee punished. Where is now the generality of consent? Is this your certainty without contradiction? Doth S. Chrysostom expound this place of Mathew otherwise then thus? [Page 114] Non effugient poenam, they shall surely be punished. Speaks he one word to countenance your sence? You shold haue shewed your selfe farre more Ingenuous in an­swering to this; as Durandus & Antonius in the behalf of Indulgncees. De Indulgentijs (say they) pauca dici pos­sunt per certitudinē, quia nec scriptura expresse de eis lo­quitur, Sancti etiā patres Ambrosius, Hillarius, Hieroni­mus, Augustinus minime loquuntur de Indulgentijs. Tou­ching Indulgences (the inseparable Per modum Causae. Concomitants of purgatory) little can be said by way of certainty, because nei­ther Scripture doth expresly mention them, neither do the holy Fathers speake of them at all. With the like speech did the Knight present you out of Roff [...]a [...]tic. 18. contra Luth. Lett. to T. H. pag. 77. Roffensis, vizt. whosoeuer shall read the Greeke Fathers, shall finde very rare or no mention of Purgatory.

It seems the Doctor hath either a better paire of spectacles, or a more piercing sight. Shall we ima­gine he hath beene more industrious in the perusall of th'auncient Records, then that eminent Bishop? or haue wee not rather iust cause to thinke him too much deuoted to Lensaeus his lines? which hee ren­dreth word for worde, without any further perusall of the truth. It is the customary Motiue T. H. pag. 169. in M [...]rg. trade of the Roma­nists to vouch opinions when they want the Authors books. The view of the Fathers writings would haue stop­ped the passage, and curtold the Philactery of this his insolent bragge.

How willing they are to misunderstand the Fathers, their like collection in wresting the words of S. Paul, 1. Corin. 3.13. doth sufficiently proclaime. There the Apostle tells vs, that Euery mans worke [Page 115] shall be made manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it shall be reuealed by the fire, and the fire shall try euerie mans worke of what sort it is. From this Metaphoricall speech, they Motiue T. H. pag. 110. would inferre a litterall necessity of Purgatory fire. But their grand Doctor saw so little colour for this, that hee is driuen to put them beside this plancke: Patres aliqui (saith Bellar. de Purg. lib. 2. ca. 1. hee) per ignem non intelligunt ignem purgatorij, sed ignem diuini iudicij. Some of the Fathers doe not by fire vnder stand the fire of Purgatory, but the fire of Diuine Iudgement. When the Auncients speake of this fire, the Catholique spirits traduce their words, and thinke they haue gotten a great purchase. Sure it is the fire whereof S. Paul there speaketh, hath no affinity with the fire of Pur­gatory: for that trieth euery mans worke, this onely purgeth some mens persons: euery mans worke is subiect to that fire, as well gold, siluer, and precious stones, as timber, hay, and stubble, but as for the fire of Purgatory, they make it capable of no other fuell then timber, hay, and stubble, the defilements of veniall and mortall sinnes. S. Pauls fire makes euery mans worke manifest, the Popes fire burning in an obscure place is without all lustre and light. Besides if they vnderstand the Apostle as speaking of a reall fire, they must also grant that hee speakes of mate­riall gold and siluer, &c. If th'one be Metaphoricall, there is no reason they should deny th'other to bee Allegoricall.

Your Inference hath the warrant of Quin­tilian. In Allegoria (saith he) tenendum est illud, vt quo ex genere rerum coeperis eodem desinas, secus Inconse­quentia [Page 116] foedissima erit. But as I remember I haue read sundry fathers alleadged Motiue. T.H. pag. 110. that the Apostle doth there intimate the fire of Purgatory.

Those testimonies of the Fathers which speake of the fire of the day of doome, or of Diuine Iudgement (which is ignis proba [...]s, non purgans) these wrangling Sophisters take with the left hand to sup­port the purging and tormenting flames which the bellowes of their superstition hath kindled in the forge of credulity. As for this fire here specified In Locum. ser­mo Christi est, saith S. Amb. It is the word of Christ: In Psal. 118. Ser. 18.3. opus quod ardere dicitur mala doctrina est, The worke which is said to burne is euill doctrine. S. Bernard (though else­where somewhat ouerswayed with the currant of those times) is yet content to imforme Bern. serm. de Lig. foen. Stipul. vs, That the bitternesse of the soule, the confession of the mouth, the pu­nishment of the body (which are all in this life) are that fire whereby the loose and negligent builder shall bee saued. Lib. 2. aduers. I [...]uin. S. Hierome by this fire vnderstandeth the furnace of tentation, whereby a man is tried in this life.

The fathers may somtimes Pag. 78. bring places of Scrip­ture, which haue other sence, yea perhaps the sence that one or other doth giue may not be the best, which is to erre ac­cording to the Analogy of place, not of faith.

The Knights answere is not yet refelled. If the Doctrine of true faith depend vpon the soliditie of exposition, it cannot be but they, who may errein the Analogy of exposition of place, may likewise faile in the Analogy of faith. Laeso fūdamine nutat Tota dom [...].

This Distinction you Ibid. vnderstand not: when manie Fathers of the Church agree in the same exposition [Page 117] of Scripture without the contradiction of anie, the same is to be thought the vndeniable sence of that place.

The Doctrine of the Romish Church is far more strict then you seeme to allow: If the credit of the Ihesuite Chauasius Profess. orth. sid. §. 37 may beare any sway, you are to stand to that exposition of Scripture (and that vpon oath) which is Secundum vnanimem con­sensum Patrum, whereas you content your selfe with the agreeable consent of manie Ad quem ibimus? Fathers in the same exposition of Scripture. How you will auoid perjurie or what time you had need take, to the ma­king of a Sermon, following this rule, I referre me to your most serious and sober thoughts: he had need haue a good Librarie that will auoid the censure of your Church; yea he may perchance burne all his bookes, before hee shall set them agreed. In this point wee will giue allowance to your position, hauing produced more demonstratiue authorities for the nullifying, then you for the ratifying of Purgatorie. I confesse it will bee no easie mat­ter for vs to prooue a contradiction in the exposi­tion of the place, especially amongest those who ne­uer heard of that Commentitious figment: for how should they gain say that which was not so much as questioned in the more Ancient times? It sufficeth vs that your sence hath no generall iustification in neyther of your grounds, which are otherwise inter­preted by the most, and not peremptorily paraphra­sed for your purpose by anie of the best ranke.

Caluins Pag. 70 Arianizing wit (though hee may find some plausible euasion) cannot be excused of haereti­cali [Page 118] call rashnesse, who dareth expound this text of Scripture Ego & Pater vnum sumus, I and the father are one, of vnitie, of consent, and will, not of nature, and substance; adding that the Ancients did abuse the same, to proue the consubstantialitie of the Sonne of God. Seing the vni­forme consent of Fathers haue canonized that meaning of the words, he cannot be a true Christian, that will not (neyther was Caluin that did not) submit his Iudgement thereunto.

May the Fathers, to proue this or that Catho­lique veritie, bring in places of Scripture that haue other sence, yea maie the sence that one or other doth giue not bee the best, though the Doctrine thereby proued be true? then iudge how base and iniurious an imputation you lay vpon Caluin, fetching him by force within the compasse of hereticall Arianizme, (who was euer most aduerse to that viperous brood) hauing no other crime to challenge him withall, besides a religious modestie in forbearing to rack a parcell of Scripture for the vttering of that euidence, which was more naturally deputed to the deliuery of other places. The sacred writ is so plentifull in proofes for the confutation of that diuellish surmise, that hee held it no good discretion, to rayse a suspition of pe­nurie or doubt, by insisting vpon that, which (being not fully pregnant) might bee auoided by the indif­ferent sence of another clause, where the same phrase did occurre. You may as well challenge Bellarmine, Valentianus, and other Ihesuites, who in their Trea­tises concerning the Trinitie, doe not approoue of manie interpretations of Scripture, which were by [Page 119] the Fathers (somewhat too liberally) produced, a­gainst the same Heresie of Arianisme. As for the place now questioned, the judgement of Caluin is, that the word vnum cannot absolutely euince an In­diuidual vnitie of Essence, because in the seuententh of Iohn vers. 22. Christ prayeth vnto his father concer­ning the elect, that they may be one as we are one, where the word vnum cannot inforce an vnitie of Essence in respect of the elect, and therefore not inferre an Indiuidual vnitie in respect of the father. This In­ducement of Caluin thus grounded vpon Analogie of Scripture, doth at least acquit him from your Taxa­tion of Rashnesse. Might it stand with your leasure to peruse his diuers confutations of Arianisme, you should find him plentifull in alleadging manie other more direct places to that end.

Hee cannot bee a true Christian that would not submit his Iudgement to the vniforme consent of the Fathers.

This is your vsuall ostentation, this is one of the bombasted Articles of your new Romish faith. If this may be allowed as the touch stone of Christia­nitie, all the sort of you will soone appeare to bee most professedly periured aboue all other Votaries in the world. There are diuers places of Scripture expounded with vniforme consent of Fathers (in cases of no small moment) which are at this day D. M [...]rta. de Iurisdict. part. 4. pag. [...]73. Maldon. com. in Mat. 19. Platin. in Steph. vita. re­jected by your Church. When you pull out this beame of Periurie out of your owne eye, you may with better licence point at the mote of Rashnesse, which you cast vpon Caluins brow.

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The vniforme consent of Fathers Pag. 71 doth not require that euerie one, none excepted, should expressely teach the same Doctrine, (for then scarse in anie point could this vniforme consent be proued) seeing all write not of the same point, but it sufficeth that manie haue taught it without the contradiction of the rest: and such is the exposition of this place for Purgatorie, and for the dead in the next world.

O how curious the Doctor is in his limita­tions and preuentions! hee would haue made a good Lawyer, able to set all his neighbours together by the eares: Hee is content to chop Logick with you by the clocke; but to keepe himselfe from push of Pike, he sets a dead hedge, and a double quicke set in the way. When he boasts of vniforme consent, hee meanes not euerie father, none excepted; when hee speakes of teaching, he supposeth it may be collate­rally, and not expresly. Besides he would haue you learne, that all who expound the same place, doe not write of the same point. Nay more, if the corruptions of latter times haue put a Quillet vpon any learned mans pen, vnlesse it bee contradicted by the writers of former ages, (who did not so much as suspect any such vnhatched Nouelties) it must passe as currant not to be opposed whithout the tincture of heretical rashnesse. This I take to be the project of Iabals mazed speech.

By my white Staffe (the earnest of my neigh­bours loue, and the Ensigne of mine office) well no­ted. He would lead vs into a Labyrinth, and wot you what? the taile of his assertion sauors more of absur­ditie, [Page 121] then the whole bodie thereof, which you haue anatomized, viz. Such is the exposition of this place for Purgatorie, and for the dead in the next World. Such is the exposition of the place so spectrically raysed, and so dubitatiuely propounded by the Interpreters themselues, and so thwarted by a whole Iurie of Catholike Doctors (euen of the Latin Church) that it affordeth no setled aboad for his future Remission to repose it selfe.

S. Chrisostomes exposition is Non effugient poenam. not cōtrary to this, for first it is not sure & certain that vniuersally al such sinners are punished in this world, many times they flourish, prosper & spend their whole liues in great Iollity, as diuers persecu­tors, Sodomites Apostates, haue done, which the K ^t. names as sins Irremissible, & cals their autors sinners in grain. Be­sides sin neuer to be remitted, is more then to be punished in this world & in the next: for as S. August. Pag. 71 saies, one may be punished both in this, and in the world to come, and yet haue his sin forgiuen at last. The meaning then of S. Chri­sostome is, they shall be punished in this world without par­don, and in the next world likewise without remission.

Master Rachil you haue made so worthie a speech, that I know not whether I should admire the volubilitie of your tongue, the sublimity of your spirit, or the quintessence of your witte: first be­cause you would haue somewhat to saie, you enfor­me vs that S. Chrisostomes exposition is not contrarie to this; where as it was only related as a different sence, wherewith you might well haue contented your selfe, for asmuch as so worthie a father, and so faith­full an Interpreter, did therein discouer not so much [Page 122] as a glimpse of forgiuenesse in the after-world, which (no doubt) had it beene so necessarily obuious as you pretend, he would in no wise haue omitted. Se­condly, whereas Saint Chrisostome sayth that some capitall Malefactors are both tortured in this life, and tormented in the life to come, You are so saucie as to in­struct him, that this is not vniuersally true, which if it hold in any (as no probabilitie can exempt those Blasphemers, in whome our Sauiour instanceth, at least Infidelitas [...]psa poena mag­na est sib [...]. G [...] 3. cap. Ioan. from the griping of an vnquiet Conscience) the fathers distribution must not bee subject to your checke. Thirdly, such is your quaint conceit that you taxe him for comming short of our Sauiours sence, Sinne neuer to be remitted is more (say you) then to be punished in this World and in the next: which is as much as if you should say. Alas good Father Chriso­stome where is now thy Eagles eyes, wherwith thou wast wont to penetrate the most abstruse mysteries? how farre art thou vnlike thy selfe in thy Commen­tarie vpon this place? Shall Aug. de Ciuit. Dei li. 21. cap. 13 Virgil and Plato by the light of nature find out a Purgatorie, and are thy eyes so dimme not to discerne it in this Disiunctiue? What will become of Pag. 72 Etiam in [...]ac quidem vita mortali purga­tori as poenas essa confitemur. Aug. de Ciuit. Dei. lib. 21. c. 13. Purgatorie- Clemencie if nec in hoc saeculo nec in futuro be thus senced. Hadst thou written thus vpon Marke 3.29. [...]. it had been some­what tolerable, but in ouerslipping such an opportu­nitie of backing vs in the principall ground of so gainefull a position (to say the truth) you were not well aduised. Thus vnkindly, though more couert­ly, doe you handle Saint Chrisostome.

Hee makes some part of amends with his [Page 123] new-found distinction. The meaning of Saint Chriso­stome (if his word may bee taken) is this: They shall bee punished in this World without pardon, and in the World to come likewise without remission.

I haue read of certaine Marinors, who vpon extremitie for want of ropes, were faine to shaue a companie of women, and make Cordage of their haire. To the like exigent is the Doctor driuen. For want of better tackling, hee hath shaued a bald Fryar to borrow the shreads of a silly Distinction, which he hath trimmed without skill, and applied without art.

What difference is there I pray you be­tweene Skil and Art?

As much as betweene Pardon and Remission. The Doctors memorie is answerable to his wit: Ere­while hee said, It is not sure that vniuersally all such sinnes are punished in this World: now he recants, saying They shalbe punished in this world yea without pardon. And to make vp the [...]ime he addes, In the next like­wise without remission; as if some sinnes (not before forgiuen) were then remitted, which is the point now in question. Is not this a neat Extinguisher?

The Knight hath a distinction deuised by himself or his Ministers: which he opposeth against our Catholike exposition. He will grant Pag. 72. sinnes pardoned in the next world, and yet not yeeld one pennie to our Purgatorie boxe. In this world (sayth hee) sinnes are fully pardoned, quoad remission is applicationem, and the selfe same sinnes shall be pardoned in the next World, per Remissionis pro­mulgationem. This hee thinkes is the fiue fingers which [Page 124] will carrie [...]way the sette from the Fathers. Yet I dare say a man that hath beene conuersant in the Scriptures, will iudge it no better then Noddie.

Quod facis Ingrato perit. Your friendly Nod well requites the Knights courtesie. His Aduersarie was desirous to conclude out of the former ground, that Some sinnes were remitted in the world to come. This Sir Edward (for quietnesse sake) was content to admit with the most fauourable construction hee could possibly finde: acknowledging that as sinnes are here loosed by vertue of the Keyes, through the particular application of the generall promises; So at the restauration of the bodie in the last day, the par­don formerly granted shall take full effect, through the promulgation of the last joyfull sentence. As it is here sealed to the conscience, so shall it there be pub­lished to the World. This he proueth by the rule of contraries: the vnbeleeuing Reprobate is Iohn. 3. v. 18. said to be condemned Per excaeca­tionem vel prop­ter certitudi­nem. Gorran. alreadie, yet at the time of his dissolution, he is awarded his paine, nor can it be de­nied by any one acquainted with the Diuine Ora­cles, but that hee shall receiue a further condemna­tion at the generall Doome, when it shall bee said, Mat. 25.41. Discedite à me Maledicti in ignem aeternum. In like manner though the Beleeuer bee here redeemed by the bloud of the immaculate Lambe, yet his Sauiour speaking of the last day, tels him that his Luc. 21.28. redempti­on draweth neare. And as Saint Paul sayth, Rom. 8.23. Wee that haue the first fruites of the Spirit, doe euen sigh wayting for our adoption, euen the Redemption of our bodie.

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The Doctor speakes better then hee is a­ware in terming this distinction the fiue fingers: For the hand of Gods mercy (whereunto it hath refe­rence) in extending grace to his chosen children hath fiue fingers indeed. First, there is Salus decreta, the par­don decreed in the eternall Counsell of God. Secondly there is Salus oblata, Grace offered, in the ministery of the word: Thirdly, there is Salus recepta, the Pardon receiued, by faith, which is the gift of God. Fourthly, there is Salus obsignata, the Pardon sealed, in the due Administration of the Sacraments. And lastly there is Salus consūmata, the pardon proclaimed, at their perfect admission into eternall blisse. All these fingers doth the Lord ordinarily lay on the heads of his elect, be­fore they can be throughly blessed.

Pag. 73. You preach very learnedly as you thinke, though God knowes to little purpose. You can bring no expresse te­stimony of Scripture, that may giue the least colour or pro­bability to this your new fancy.

The purpose I confesse suits not with your humor, which debarres it not from agreement with the truth: My drift was to let you vnderstand that there belongs Nunc recrea­mur continuo i [...]amine medi­caminis, tunc frucmur aeterna plenitudine sa­nitatis. Fulg. de Praedest. ad Mo­nimum lib. 1. more to the absolution of a penitent, then you seeme willing to conceiue; As his sinnes are loosed on earth, so shal they be loosed in heauen. Our pardon is fully and absolutely purchased Agnus occisus ab origine mūd [...]. be­fore wee were, and it is ours potentially in the pur­pose of God, who hath decreed to giue it vs: but as it is not sealed vnto vs actually till wee beleeue, so neither do we fully and plenarily receiue the benefit and effect thereof, till our bodies shall arise at the [Page 126] great and generall day of the Lord, 2. Thes. 1.20. When hee shall come to be glorified in his Saints, & to be made maruellous in all them that beleeue; When the booke of Reu. 20.12. life shall bee opened, and when God shall iudge the Rom. 2.16. secrets of men by Iesus Christ. Though wee haue heere 2. Cor. 5.19. [...]. The word of Reconciliation, yet are we further to expect Rom. 2 5. [...] the day of declaration. Now are we the sonnes of God (saith 1. Iohn. 3.2. Saint Iohn) but yet it doth not appeare what we shall be.

This is a new deuise not back'd by the authority of any Father, which therefore may iustly be suspected. Pag 72, 73. If all sinnes must haue double pardon, one in this world, ano­ther in the next, why should not all sinners haue a double condemnation, one in this world, another in the next?

The pardon is one and the same, the diffe­rence is onely in the manner and time. Quod nunc san­cti credunt, tunc videbunt, saith De praedest. ad Monimum. lib. 1. Fulgentius. That grace and mercy which the Saints do now beleeue, they shall then heare and see. And againe, Iste est in homine ordo diui­nae redemption is &c. Vt nunc iustificatus credat quod tunc glorificatus accipiat. So that besides that assurance of Remission, which we call pignus iustitiae, the pledge of righteousnes, there is also that which S. Paul stileth Coronam iustitiae, the Crowne of Righteousnesse, which is yet reserued for vs in the heauens. S. Augustine cōmenting vpon these words of the Psalmist In Psal. 36. Educet quasi lumen Iustitiam tuam, He will bring forth thy righ­teousnesse as the light, and thy Iudgement as the noone­day, hath these words: Modo abscondita est iustitia tua. In fide res est, et nondum in specie. Thy righteousnesse (which presupposeth Remission) is now hidden, appre­hended [Page 127] by faith, and not as yet by sight. Nondum vides quod credis, cum autem caeperis videre quod credidisti, tunc educetur in Lumine iustitia tua. Thou dost not yet see that which thou beleeuest, but when thou shalt begin to see that which thou hast beleeued, then shall thy righteousnesse (formerly apprehended) bee brought forth in the light. Promissorem adhuc tenes, exhibitorem expectas. To make this point yet more cleere, hee proceedeth in this wise. Quale sit iudicium tuum adhuc non apparet: In isto saeculo quasi nox est; Quando educet Iudicium tuum velut meridiem? Cum Christus apparuerit, vita vestra &c. What thy iudgement is, yet [...]t appeareth not: In this world it is as it were night, when will hee bring forth thy iudgement as the noone day? when Christ your life shall appeare. This is one of those reasons which the Vide Thom. in Sup. 3. part. Qu. 8 [...]. Art. 1. Fathers alleadge why there should be a gene­rall Iudgment, notwithstanding the particular doom which the soule receiueth at the houre of death; that so the sentence of Benediction, and Malediction, which was before priuate and in part, might be then more generall and complete. Haue you forgotten S. Au­gustines ground? De ciuit. Dei. lib. 20. ca. 14. Quaedam diuina vis aderit (saith he) qua fiet vt cuncta peccata in memoriam reuocentur. There will be a certaine diuine power, by which we (euen Peccata [...] ­storum app [...]re­bunt in Coel [...]. Stel. in [...]. c. 21 the elect) shall be then put in mind of all our sinnes. Wher­fore seeing sinnes formerly cancelled shall bee there remembred and Oportet ad hoc quod iusta sententia appa­reat quod omni­bus sententiam cognoscentibus merita & den. e­rita [...] Thom. in Sup. 3. part. Quaest 87. Art. 2. published, it is no new fancy to thinke that the pardon formerly graunted shall bee then also publiquely ratified and acknowledged.

You mistake your Card, and seeme not to know the very principles of Christian Diuinity. Pag. 74. That is not [Page 128] the day of mercy, but of iustice, to giue to euery man accor­ding to his workes, not to forgiue any man his wicked workes. That shall not be the generall Gaole Deliuery as the Knight surmiseth, but rather then shall be the generall fi [...]ing of the Gaole with all sinners, to be locked vp in mise­ry euerlasting.

The Gaole deliuery, of which the Knight speaketh, doth glance at your supposed Purgatory, which by your owne confession shall bee then bro­ken and annihilated: Implying that this Implicati­on of future Remission (if any) may rather be vnder­stood of that generall publication of pardon, when your imaginary flames shall bee cleane extinct; as if our Sauior had said, they shall neither haue the seale of redemption in this world, nor the sentence of ab­solution in the world to come. Besides if you be wel aduised, you may further remember that the Chil­dren of God shall then bee all deliuered from the [...]. Apoc. 7. v. 14. bondage and misery of this world, wherein they are imprisoned.

But is that the day of Iustice, and not of mer­cy? remember the true opposition betwixt the iust and the wicked, and your opinion will be soone altered. In respect of the greater part, it is indeed a dreadful day of seuere iustice, but if we consider the better part, it is the Luc. 21.28. gladsome accomplishment of his most abun­dant mercy. Vnto those it is dies terroris, vnto these it is Esay 26.19. dies laetitiae: vnto those it is a day of perdition, vn­to these a day of Redemption. Will he not then bee made maruellous in the free saluation of his Saints, as well as glorious in the deserued destruction of the [Page 129] wicked. There is 2. Tim. [...].8. laid vp for mee (saith S. Paul) the Crowne of righteousnesse, which the Lord the righteous Iudge shall giue me at that day. Ad mo [...] lib. 1. Gratia est et illa iusta re­tributio saith Fulgenti [...]. That is also a work of Grace which belongs vnto that day. As we find our thoughts Rom. 2.15. accu­sing or excusing vs, so shall wee heare the Lord as­soyling or condemning vs. But not to quarrell a­bout the word. I would gladly vnderstand why it should not be a point of as great iustice to proclaime pardon vnto them, vnto whom it was formerly gran­ted, and by whom it was thankfully embraced, as to denounce sentence of death vpon those, by whome this profered mercy was so gracelesly reiected, Is it not as great Iustice in the Lord to ratifie his word in blessing the one, as in accursing the other. So that this publication of remission doth rather build vp, then destroy, the iustice and equity of the supreame Iudge.

It may Pag. 74. not bee tearmed a Pardon, but rather a Triumph, and victory ouer sinne. If the bare proclamation of Pardon may be tearmed Pardon, I see not why the pro­clamation of Ʋid. Mat. 21.25. Baptisme may not be called Baptisme.

Are not your proclamations of Indulgences called Indulgences and Pardons? Is not a King said to come vnto the Crowne, when hee is proclaimed, though the day of his Coronation be deferd? Is it sencelessnes to vse figuratiue speeches?

May Pag. 75. not they who are absolued in the Court of Conscience be afterwards pardoned in the exteriour Court, by vndergoing publique pennance and humiliation in the face of the Church for a sinne already forgiuen?

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Those Ibid. sins were not fully forgiuen, the penalty of this disgrace being still reserued: so that your expositi­on crosseth the whole course of Scripture, not hauing any congruity with the phrase thereof.

How great a stranger would you seeme to bee in Bellarmines workes? Will it please you to take notice of his Thesis? It is this, De purgato­rio. Culpâ remissâ manet poena luenda. Though the fault be remitted, yet is the pu­nishment to be sustained, Take away this, and what co­lour can you haue for the defence of Purgatory? this your answer puts the nose of your Priestdome clean out of ioynt. When you absolue a penitent, inioy­ning him satisfaction in way of pennance, whether are his sinnes remitted before satisfaction, or not? If they bee not, how can you tearme your forme of Remission an absolution? If they bee remitted, then may sinnes be forgiuen, and a kind of penalty still re­serued. Choose whether part you will; If the first, you haue answered nothing. If the second, you haue thwarted your owne solution, and answered more then you would.

As farre as I am able to conceiue, the point in question may fitly bee explicated thus. A King out of his royall compassion, first granteth, then sig­neth the pardon of a malefactor: yet doth the party remaine in durance, and vndeliuered, till the same be published to the Country, at the Assizes: when it is publiquely read, doth not the Iudge say to the Priso­ner at the barre, Loe heere the King giues thee thy pardon, though it were vnder seale some moneths before? Nay doe not they who are vnacquainted [Page 131] with the Kings former grant, when they see the bolt and fetters stricken off, vse wordes to this purpose, This fellow hath his pardon, or else he had bin trus­sed vp amongst his Mates at the last execution? So likewise an Apprentice, at the expiration of his years is free by couenant; yet is hee not so taken by the Company, neither may hee set vp Shoppe for him­selfe, till he be entred into the Hall-booke, at which time he is said to be made free. Will you say there­fore that th'one had three pardons, or th'other two freedomes? As the pardon, so also the freedome is but one. One and the same act, keepes one and the same denomination: though it bee differenced by more or lesse perspicuity of circumstances, as of time and place. I see no reason why that should be vnap­plyable to the consummation of any thing, which is attributed to the Initiation thereof.

Trust me truly, Nick speakes to good pur­pose, marry you must not vnderstand him of such transient acts, as are both begunne and finished at once without any possibility of Iteration. As for ex­ample, a man aged thirty yeeres cannot properly be said to be then borne, because there is no possibility of a second naturall birth; neither may a true Chri­stian man formerlie initiated with the Sacrament of Baptisme, bee afterward said to bee at anie other time sacramentally baptized, because one and the same person is onelie once capable of that sacred rite. Of these and the like wee speake onelie in praeterito, that such a one was borne and baptized. But in such permanent acts as may be repealed, renewed, or ei­ther [Page 132] in matter or manner, by a proceeding pro­gresse perfected, the case is otherwise: they retaine their prime denomination, till they attaine their full end and consummation. Of this kinde were those instances, which the Groome deliuered, ve­ry agreeable to the Remisson of our sinnes, for which we are euery day petitioners: yea oft times we Ezec. 18.24. depriue our selues of the benefit of our former pardon, and then our suit is to haue it againe confir­med. In a word, the world can take no certaine no­tice of euery particular mans spirituall estate, wher­fore the publication thereof is reserued to the great and generall day, Si nulla pec­cata remitteren­tur in Iudicio illo nouissimo pu­to &c. Aug. cont. Iul. lib. 6. ca. 5. when the hand-writing which was against vs shall be euidently seene to be cancel­led, and our enlargement from the power of sin and Sathan fully accomplished.

Such windings and turnings the Knights Mini­nisters haue taught him to elude the force of Christs words. Pag. 75. And to the end you may the better perceiue his precipitation in censuring our former deduction as Nody, and that the force of our Argument may more ap­peare, I will particularly examine his Cauils.

Now is Dame Purgatory giuing vp the Ghost, oh how she stareth, panteth, strugleth, and gaspeth, as vnwilling to leaue the world: when this pillow is pluck'd from vnder her head she wil be soone out of her paine. Good Doctor speake not so lowd, lest yo call her againe into a second, and more fierce agony.

His first assault is by examples. A Pag. 75.76. Kentish Gentle­mā (saith he) not purposing to make his heire a great Clark saith thus, My eldest Sonne shall neyther bee Student in [Page 133] Oxford nor Cambridge; were not hee an excellent Ar­tist that should thence inferre, Ergo some of his other Sonnes shall goe to Cambridge? Or if he should say, My Sonne shall neyther bee Schollar in Eaton, nor Fellow of Kings Colledge: were not hee out of his wits that should hence conclude, Ergo a man may be Fellow of Kings Col­ledge Being against the founda­tion. that was neuer Schollar of Eaton?

Amongest millions of stones and faces, tis impossible to finde two so a like, that there shall bee no difference. Similitudes are not of equall size in euerie part, tis sufficient if they agree in the maine scope. What can bee more pregnant to shew the fol­lie of your Deduction? The two English Vniuersi­ties, answere the two Worlds, the Gentlemans speech is only touching his eldest Sonne, as our Sa­uiours assertion touching one kind of sinners; the In­ference concerning his other sonnes is against art, your Consequence touching other Sinners (being no part of Christs scope) cannot free it selfe from vn­mannerly intrusion.

He shewes Pag 79. himselfe such an excellent Artist that he brings examples that make against his purpose. For the Kentish Gentlemans speech that his eldest Sonne shall not be Student in Oxford or Cambridge, nor Schol­ler in Eaton, nor Fellow of Kings Colledge, though it doe not import, that eyther his second, or third, or fourth Son shalbe Student in Cambridge, or Fellow of Kings Colledge, yet this doth follow, that some youths may and vse to be stu­dents in Cambridge, some men Fellowes of Kings Colledge, else it were foolish to make that speciall exception against his first Sonne, which is generall to all other mens children.

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See how your wit runnes a wooll-gathe­ring! while you seeke to contradict the Knight, you giue euidence against your selfe. The immediate question betweene the Knight and his Aduersarie in this place, was this: Whether the wordes of our Sa­uiour in this Scripture, did necessarily imply forgiue­nesse in the World to come, touching sinnes of a les­ser growth and degree? You answere to a speech of like nature, that it doth not import, that his second or third sonne, &c. shall bee Student in Cambridge: which is all one as if you should say, Our Sauiours speech doth not determine that Sinners of another nature shall be forgiuen in the world to come, which is as much as we craue.

Yet this seemes to follow, That some youths may and vse to bee Students in Cambridge, &c. else it were foolish to make speciall exception against his first Sonne.

Though it bee true that there are Students there, yet it doth not necessarily follow, from the Gentlemans speech: for hee might send his sonne to bee a Student in Queenborrow Castle, or any other place, where the Artes were neuer read before. In­deed if there were no such place as Cambridge, then his speech might haue seemed absurde. So likewise it followes from our Sauiours speech that there is a world to come: but that other sinnes (not formerly remitted) shall bee there forgiuen, you confesse it doth not import.

Should this Gentleman say, Ibid. My eldest Sonne shal not be an Vniuersitie Schollar, neyther in Oxford nor in [Page 134] Queenborough Castle, were not his speech absurde? Why I pray you, but because Queenborough is no Vniuer­sitie?

You meane when my Master is away: but I can tell you when he is there, you would sweare it is a little Vniuersitie. I may speake it to my credit, I haue often wished those bookish Disputants a good way off, their arguing hath made vs wait so long for our dinner. And when they are risen, it is one bodies worke to runne vp and downe with Bookes to set them agreed.

Tis well done Nick, to stand pro aris & focis, Had we a good Towne-stocke, thou shouldest haue a pension, for thy good spoake.

Nay listen a while to the Doctor, (who was neyther an Vniuersitie Scholler in Oxford, Cam­bridge, nor Queenborrough Castle) how doth hee con­clude? Were not the speech (sayth hee) absurde, seeing Queenborrough Castle is no Vniuersitie? as if there were no difference betweene a Horse-Mill, and a Mill-Horse, betweene a specificall difference crossely ap­plied, and an accidentall attribute figuratiuely conti­nued. The absurditie of your speech sauours of the Mint, where it was coyned; yea it hath little or no agreement, with the phrase in hand. For there is a necessarie succeeding dependance, betweene this world and the next, which is not to bee found be­tweene Oxford and Queenborrough Castle: wherfore the Negatiue is most improper in th'one, which is tollerable and significant in the other. Yet if anie man should so speak, we are probably to vnderstand, [Page 136] that he had no intention to make his sonne an Aca­demick, yea scarce a Countrie Schollar, seeing Queen­borrough is no place of note destinated for that pur­pose. So when our Sauiour sayth, It shall neyther bee forgiuen in this world, nor in the world to come (which is not found capable by the Scriptures prerogatiue, of any such effect) it is plaine, his intent is, that it shall not be forgiuen at all; neyther doth it imply, that o­ther Sinners are there to be forgiuen, as you would wrest the sence, contrarie to your former acknow­ledgement.

Except there bee Pag. 77 some remission of sinnes in the World to come, the speech of Christ should be sencelesse, and absurde against one sinne, that it shall be remitted ney­ther in this world, nor in the next, except some sinnes may be remitted in the world to come: wherefore to make the speech of Christ discreet and wise, wee must needes grant, that some sinnes are pardoned in the world to come.

Itque reditque viam toties. This is right Sellengers round, forward and backward. A great Horse that could trot the Ring so well, were worth much monie. The speech indeede cannot but bee discreete and wise, if it come once to your ma­king.

Hee paceth foot by foot after De Purga­torio. cap. 13 Lensaeus: his wordes are these; Wee say that Christ did not vse this distribution lightly ridiculously, or without weightie reason. And wee say that hee speakes figuratiuely, grauely, and pathetically, [...]. aggrauating the sinne by th'eternitie of remedilesse punishment: excluding [Page 137] it from the present remission, which is incident to o­ther sinnes, and debarring the person so obnoxious from the hope of future joy, which other sinners af­ter their timely repentance are to receiue. It is no vnusuall thing in the Holy Scriptures to put the cause Ezech. 36.27 for the effect; wherefore seeing there is no o­ther place to warrant your construction, I am the ra­ther induced to thinke, that Remission is here put for the fruit and effect thereof, which is peace of consci­ence, ioy in the Holy Ghost, and exemption from penaltie; of all which this notorious sinner is pronounced vn­capable, partly in this, and partly in the next World, which is a sufficient disparitie, differencing him from others which enioy both. Wherefore the last clause in our sence, is not superfluous and sencelesse, as you deeme: seeing it extendeth it selfe to a further effect of the former Remission, whereof the Blasphemer hath no hope.

Were the speech sencelesse, if one should say, that the Doctor buildes Castles in the Ayre? The speech is vsuall amongst the wisest men: should hee not then shew himselfe a worthie Logician, hence to conclude, Ergo materiall Castles may be built in the Ayre, or else the phrase cannot be discreet and wise? If borrowed Elegances were literally, and properly to be construed, then vnlesse the skie fall, wee should haue no Larkes, because the Prouerbe sayth, When the skie falles wee shall haue Larkes. This Doctrine would haue driuen the Larke-taker to seeke a new occupation: and then your Ladies could not say by experience, that the pestle of a Larke were better [Page 138] then the whole bodie of a Ki [...]e.

Doe you not thinke that the Doctor was lap'd in his Mothers smocke? he is so womanish, that he will neuer giue ouer, till he haue the last word. I had thought my master had giuen him his Belly ful, when hee tolde him that Theomisus should bee his Schoole-master, neyther quicke, nor dead; which speech he would not haue so to bee vnderstood, as if Lectures were read to men when they are in their graues.

The Pag. 84 example to illustrate the matter, though it be not against the Logicke hee got in Paruies, yet it would not beseeme the mouth of wisedome: to mee it seemes a spice of Blasphemie, for him to bring his phrases, which hee confesseth are neither in moode nor figure, to declare the speech of Christ, whose wordes are in number, weight and measure.

Tis true, Quot apices, tot sententiae. Euerie sil­l [...]ble issuing from the Word of Wisdome is a sentence. Yet doth hee not alwayes deliuer his minde in explicite Syllogismes; neyther doth moode, and figure, still at­tend the most sanctified and industrious penne. But if it be blasphemie for a man to bring his own phra­ses to declare the speech of Christ, then is Lyra, with the rest of your Cherubicall Expositors, to be put in si­lence: and why? forsooth it is blasphemie to declare Christs speech, by their owne phrases and conse­quently the Doctor when hee hath reade his Text, must come out of the Pulpit, and play least in sight, right mumme budget, making vp the rest with signes and faces, for in no hand must hee declare [Page 139] Christs speech with his owne phrases.

Did I not tell you that Purgatorie was al­most at the last cast? When hee hath no other eua­sion, then hee cries Blasphemie, VVee maie now sit downe, and decline victus throughout all cases.

Nay it will be to our disaduantage, to giue him time to breath, let vs rather spurre him this que­stion, What sinnes they are which are forgiuen in the world to come?

They are such as were not Pag. 77 formally, fully, and perfectly pardoned in this life: for the sinnes that were wholly pardoned in this Life, need no Remission in the next.

See how you are ensnared in your answer. Dare you stand to this? Then I demaund when you absolue a man vpon his death-bed, now giuing vp the Ghost, and guiltie of mortall sinnes, whether, (when he is dead) can he be suiect to Purgatorie tor­ment or not? If he may, then is your Priestly absolu­tion no formall remission of sinne, euen by your owne ground. If he bee not, then doe you vtterly quench the fire of Purgatorie: for how shall hee bee punished, that had his sinnes before formally, fully, and perfectly, remitted? You haue no shift, except you will say that Sinnes mortall are translated into Sinnes veniall, and that eternall punishment belong­ing vnto mortall sin be changed into temporall, which you count proper vnto veniall sinnes. But this were to ouerthrow the Law of God, which cannot but judge that to be mortall which is mortall, and ac­cordingly award punishment eternall.

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Out of Pag. 79 the former text of Scripture it is gathe­red clearely that some sinnes are remitted in the World to come, but what those sinnes be, veniall, or mortall, like­wise the manner of the pardon, whether it be according to the sinne, or penaltie, or both, cannot hence bee proued: but out of other passages of Gods word, these verities are to bee searched.

Hee sends you to seeke a needle in a bottle of hay; by like hee thinkes you want worke, you may doe well to dismisse him to make this search himselfe; when hee hath found these verities, hee shall haue audience; in the meane time let him make a Syllogisme in Celarent.

Honest Nick, I will owe thee a pound of thankes, for an ounce of patience; perhaps hee hath somewhat else to say, touching the Knights other Logicall assaults.

Hee Pag. 78 thinkes to put vs to a plunge, by re­turning our Parologisme (as he termeth it) vpon vs.

Thus Lett. pag. 34 he disputeth. The sinne against the Holy Ghost shall neyther bee forgiuen, quoad culpam, aut quoad poenam, in this World, nor in the World to come: Ergo, according to your Logicall inference, the text equally intending both guilt and punishment, some mortall sinnes shallbe remitted & quoad Culpam & quoad Poenam in the World to come. If you grant this sequel, you crosse the position of Tom. 4. Dis. 45 § 1. pag. 557. Suarez, who tels vs that the remission of mortall sinnes in the world to come cannot be vnderstood as touching the guilt, but in regard of the punishment, and consequently display the inualiditie of your owne Collection.

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Either now or neuer must Iabal shew of what house he comes; now one flash my noble spark. Hath all thy powder taken wet? what not one squib to make a Cracke?

He returnes arguments as children do stones they are not able well to lift, which they let fall on their head or foote.

Profoundly answered.

It is Pag. 78. not against the doctrine of our Church, that some sins are forgiuen in the world to come, & quoad Culpam & poenam, both according to the guilt of sinne, & the guilt of paine. Yea Catholique Diuines commonly teach that veniall sinnes are remitted in the next world, accor­ding to both guilts, though of mortall sinnes Suarez saith, that Remissio mortalium, the remission of mortall sinnes in the next world, cannot be vnderstood, quoad Culpam, according to the sinne, but onely quoad paenam, according to some penalty due vnto it.

If our Sauiour-speake as well (if not more plainly) of mortall as of veniall sinnes, then the con­clusion according to your maner of deduction must indifferently hold, touching mortall sinnes, in both guiltes, which seeing Suarez doth deny, it suffici­ently bewraies the vanity of your partiall inference. It had beene your better course to haue denied Sua­rez authority: for by yeelding that the guilt of pu­nishment remaines in mortall sinnes, to bee done a­way after the remission of the guilt of sinne, you vn­say that, which is yet scarce out of your mouth, viz. that sinnes formally pardoned in this life neede no Remis­sion in the next. So that the stone doth now giue a [Page 142] double bound vpon your pate, weakening the force of your inference, and discountenancing the do­ctrine of your Church; for if the sinne bee remitted in the next world, you confesse it was not formallie forgiuen, in this present life. It would trouble Sisy­phus himselfe to roll away this stone.

Should Pag. 79 a young Gentleman say that hee will nei­ther study in the Innes of Court, nor in the Vniuersities, one may inferre, except the speech bee sencelesse, that in both places studies are professed: but he that would inferre that Common Law is studied in Oxford, or Diuinity pro­fessed in London, were hee not absurd? So likewise the speech of Christ doth only signifie in generall, Remission in the world to come, not distinctly explicate the manner thereof, nor the quality of sinnes there purged.

What Doctor! will you take vpon you to declare Christs speech in your owne phrases? be­ware of blasphemy. But conceiue it aright, the case is not alike; for first you speake of two places; hee onely of one and the next world. Secondly these two places are knowne to be lyable to two different kinds of study, whereas you all confesse, that both the guilt of sinne and punishment are included in the latter part of our Sauiours speech, touching the Blas­phemer, which the Knight doth thus assume. That which is negatiuely spoken of that one sinne, hath, you say, a contrary reference to other mortall and ve­niall sinnes: but the sinne against the holy Ghost shall in neither respect be remitted in the world to come, Ergo, o­ther mortall sinnes shall be then remitted in both, which your Suarez denieth: and so your like inference blee­deth [Page 143] euen to death, with the bruise of this stone. If your young Gentleman should say, I will neither study Seton nor Aristotle in Oxford, presupposing that both were appointed to be read there; it might bee probably inferred, that other Students of the better sort doe peruse th'one, as well as the other.

Fain Pag. 80. would the Knight find some paralel in Scrip­ture, to this speech of our Sauiour. For want of better, hee bringeth that of S. Cap. 1. Mathew concerning Ioseph, That he knew her not, vntill she had brought forth her first born Sonne. If out of this place (saith he) wee should come vpon you, Ergo he knew her after she had borne him, you would thinke that blessed and holy Virgin irrecompensably disparaged. And yet [...] seemeth to imply as much.

With what due respect hee speaketh of that chosen Vessell, I referre the triall to his owne lines, which are the best witnesses of his religious thoughts Farre was hee from giuing any countenance to the Heluidian Inference. Onely he proposeth it to shew, that if Scripture should be interpreted according to the first seeming blush, there would oft times arise an incongruous sence, not vnlike this of yours, which is too seruile to the letter, without the warrant (nay contrary to the tenor) of the whole Scripture, which doth neither generally signifie any future remission, nor distinctly explicate the manner thereof, nor the quality of the sinnes that you suppose there to be purged.

Hee hath Pag. 82. one shift more, which is a rule of Lo­gicke. Quod de vno negatur, non semper de diuersis affir­matur, et é contra. His reason is this, Potest idem praedica­tum de diuersis subiectis praedicari? as thus, Eos qui foris [Page 144] sunt Deus iudicabit; And this is as true, Eos qui intus sunt indicabit Deus: Where subiectum doth differ, the praedicatum beeing all one. Neither may wee argue thus, they are to be iudged of God; Ergo, not by the Magistrate: And yet you (saith he) sticke not to conclude thus. This sin is not remitted in this world, nor in the world to come. Ergo some sinnes shall be forgiuen in the world to come.

What flaw can you find in this?

His Pag. 84. Logicall rule (though the examples where­with he declares it be childish) we deny not to bee true, that what is denied of one thing is not therefore said of a­nother: So by the rigour of Logick it doth not follow, that Remission of sinne in the next world is granted of some sins, when it is denied vnto one kind of sinnes.

This is all we aske, the Helena for which we haue so long contended. Why doe you then vse this kind of arguing, which Logicke the rule of reason dis­alloweth?

It Ibid. followeth by the rules of prudencie, because otherwise such a speech, though not false, yet should be idle and sencelesse, against rules of wisdome.

Shall wee neuer haue done with your idle and senceles repetitions? The speech of Christ must bee idle and Haec cratio defenda videtur [...]bus qui nor [...]ntelligunt. sencelesse, vnlesse it serue for your ad­uantage. Is it not rather rigour in you to take a Prae­d'cate as spoken of one thing not intended, because it is purposely denied of another? What Father hath feed you to sue a diuorce betweene the rules of Lo­gicke, and Prudency, which would not willingly bee sundred? When did euer Prudency open her mouth to vtter that wherein the assent of Hanc artem nun quam doctri­na christiana re­formidat. Aug. cont [...] Craes [...]on. lib 1. cap. 20. Logicall conse­quence [Page 145] did not beare a part? Should you thus an­swere in the Schooles, you would be h [...]ssed out (with your naturall and artificiall Pag. 85. nose) for an imprudent and irrationall Asse. I confesse there are great My­steries (in their owne supernaturall essence) far aboue the reach of Logick; but in their deliuerance and con­ueighance into our vnderstanding they are alwaies attended with one or other instrument of this Arte, which is [...] the most methodical disposer, and faithfullest diuider of the most abstruse mysticall context. Disputationis disciplina (saith S. De doctria. Christ. l. 2. c. 31. Aug.) adomnia genera quaestionū quae in literis sanctis sunt penetranda, et dissoluenda, plurimum valet: & in the latter part of the sentence he toucheth your compeers to the quicke, with this Prouiso, Tantū ibi cauenda est libido rixand, & puerilis quaedā ostentatio decipiendi aduersarium, which is the whole imployment of your Logical fragments.

You giue him this fatherly aduertisment in good time; for me thought I heard him very capti­ous about the examples of the Knights ground, which he tearmed childish.

He talkes Pag. 82. like a great Doctor when he hath an ig­norant reader. Is he not a Nody Logician, a yoūg gamester in that Art, that cannot distinguish betwixt praedicatum, & subiectum, but taketh the one for the other? The praedi­catum in his two propositions is not the same, the sub­iect beeing different, as hee saith, but the contrary, to witte, two different praedicates are spoken of the s [...]me subiect. The thing spoken is, Iudge of those without, Iudge of those within, which are diuers titles, praedi­cates, and properties; the thing of which it is spoken is [Page 146] God, one and the selfe same subiect, on whom both those titles light. And seeing Subiectum in a speech, is that which goeth before the verbe, Praedicatum that which fol­loweth, the boyes of Eaton may serue to laugh him out of his witlesse bragging.

Now doe I beleeue you haue as little Lo­gicke as Diuinity. Vnlesse you had a purpose to shew Midas his eares, and to be hooted out of your Lions skinne, I cannot see what should mooue you thus grossely to bewray your captious folly. The Knight propoundeth his proposition, as it lyes in the text, 1. Cor. 5.13. Eos qui foris sunt deus iudicabit, which hee matcheth with another as true, and so placed, Eos qui intus sunt Deus iudicabit. Now the question is, which is the Praedicate, and which are the subiects, of these two propositions. Let them bee Logically reduced as they lye, and then they stand thus: Nomen ex pluribus [...]ocibus combinatum de­bet ad vnicam simplicem vocem reduci. Ethnici sunt à Or Subijciun­tur iud [...]cio diui­no. Deo iudicandi; Christiani sunt à Deo iudicandi. Is not the Praedicate which commeth after the Copula, the same in both propositions? are not the Subiects (which goe before) different? Is it not spoken as well of those that are without, as of those who are with­in, that they are liable to the iudgement of one and the same God? The thing spoken is to bee iudged of God, which is one selfe-same attribute; the Subiects of which it is spoken are different, viz. those that are without, those that are within. If Iudging those without, Iudging those within, be the Praedicates, then are you to seeke a Copula. Wherefore you should first make your proposition Logicall, according to the Interpretatio facienda est ex dicentis vel ser [...]entis pri­maria intentio­ne. Pro­pounders sence, before you had passed so rash and chil­dish [Page 147] a Censure. I confesse you may by a Cripticall dis­position, and Grammaticall construction, turn the Cat in the panne, and change the places; which made the Knight adde E contra, to the proposall of his ground. But the former enunciation, as it was direct­ly mentioned by the Knight, so is it more Propria prae­dicatio est, quan­do superius de suo inferiore e­nunciatur. proper; the Iudge being superiour to the thing iudged. Be­sides, the Knight did not so much direct his Reader to the placing and marshalling of the words, in the Proposition, as to their order and reference in Argu­mentation, implying that it is no good consequence to argue thus; They that are without shall bee iudged by God, Ergo They that are within shall not be iudged by God: because both are indifferently Illud in pro­positione est ve­rum et naturale Subiectum, quod extra propositio­nem [...] ipsa rerū natura subijcitur subiect to the sen­tence of that great Iudge, whose Iudgement may be most truely spoken of them, as comprizing both within the generality of the verge thereof.

The Doctour is so studious in the rules of Prudency, that he is to seeke euen in the Principles of Logick. Many a one talks of Robin-Hood who neuer shot in his bow: his meaning is to lead vs ouer hedge and ditch (right the wild-goose chace) that so by stoo­ping to these trifles, wee might loose the sent of the question. Doth not my Masters ground, exemplifi­ed with these instances nullifie your deduction?

He must take Pag. 85. 86. to himselfe the Nody he laid vpon our Exposition. That must needs bee the meaning of the words which taken away, leaueth them in an empty sound, void of graue, and full sence: the speech should be absurd, for want of sence or mystery should he expresse a truth in a Disiunctiue speech, one clause whereof is sencelesse; This [Page 148] superfluity of speech, wee take it a great blasphemy in you to suspect in the Doctrine of Christ.

Wee hold it no superfluity, but rather a weighty enforcement of Diuine elegancy. Thus when the Euangelist speaking of Christ, saith Mat. 5.2. Ape­riens os suum àocebat eos, opening his mouth hee taught them: wee may not inferre, that a man may speake without opening his mouth, or else one clause is idle and sencelesse; the setting out of one and the same thing, in a diuers phrase, giueth a Tanquam magna & pro­funda sed aper­ta dicturus. Gorran. weight to that which is spoken. Vbicunque legitur Dominus aperuisse os (saith S. De Serm. do­mini in monte. Augustine) inspiciendum est, quia magna sunt quae sequuntur. Illud diligenter notandum (saith In Psal. 1. Bellarmine) Consuetudinem Dauidis et aliorum Prophe­tarum esse, vt id ipsum bis repetant, ita vt vna pars versi­culi sit repetitio & explicatio alterius. This is diligently to be noted, that it is the custome of Dauid and the other Pro­phets to repeat the same thing twice, so that the one part of a verse is the repetition, and explication of the other. Tis an ordinary phrase in the Scripture to say, Psal. 72. v. 5. As long as the Sunne and Moone endureth. May he hence ima­gine, that therefore the Moone shall endure after the Sunne? or shall we taxe the Prophet for a super­fluous speech? Id ipsum explicat verbis idem significan­tibus, (saith Bellarmine) of the like. Hee expresseth the same thing in other words tending to the same sence. So heere when he saith, nec in hoc saeculo nec in futuro, the words do Rhetorically, and Emphatically, giue life vnto the assertion in the former verse, viz. Mat. 12.31. Non remit­tetur, it shall not be forgiuen him: which this annexed Disiunctiue explayneth to signifie as much as neuer.

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The Doctor I presume is not ignorant, that there were in those dayes not a few highly renow­ned Saduces who denied the Act. 23.8 Resurrection, and by consequence any after-life. Wherefore the addition of the latter part, touching the World to come, were in no sort to be deemed idle, had it only reference to the abating of the courage of these Heretikes, who confining their ioyes and sorrowes within the com­passe of this present life, were not like greatly to passe for any threat, which had no further Extent then the date of this World. Wherefore in this res­pect alone, it were no absurditie for our Sauiour to giue them a Cooling Card, by letting them know, not only that there is a World to come, but also that their obstinate and wilfull Blasphemie shall bee there punished, without expectation of Remission, or hope of ease.

Sir, you haue wonne the spurs, the Doctor is off the hookes, the nose of his Deduction is now set cleane awrie; the supposed Idlenesse of the most Di­uine speech, is demostratiuely remoued; Purgatorie hath fetch'd her last breath. It is in vaine for the Do­ctor to froate the Key-cold Carcasse any longer. If he powre in a pint of Doctor Stephens water, it will not moue a joynt. Me thinkes I see the Mortuarie Suf­frages, and moath-eaten Miracles lamenting about the coarse. Kind hearts; I thinke they are all agreed to Vnica defun­ctas tres conti­net urna sorores. die for companie.

CHAP. IIII. The Scriptures authoritie and sufficiencie warranted, against prayer for the dead, and other Ro­mish Traditions.

THat short and Pag. 90 pithie treatise, which the Knight sought to disgrace with froathie lines, alleadged for Purgato­rie the Custome of the Church to pray for the dead, and their releefe in the Holy Sacrifice of the Altar: which custome he proueth was perpetuall, euen from the blessed Apostles.

What that Authour (then carried with the precipitate motion of your superiour and irregular Spheares) was inforced to write, he hath now vpon his second setled, and more deliberate thoughts, found sufficient cause to disclaime. Your confident suggesting made him somewhat too credulous in beleeuing. Hauing lost his Anchor-hold, he was the more easily driuen vpon those quick-sands, by the violence of a swelling Doli fabrica­tor Epeus. Floud. His stayed Iudgment hath since taught him, to thinke Pigmalion a foole, for doting so much vpon his sencelesse feature, which hath neyther breath nor life.

Giue Iabal leaue to licke his owne whelpe. When hee hath done all he can, it will proue but a deformed lumpe; his apish dandling will hazard the thriuing. Neuer did I see the spawne of a Crab-fish proue good Sturgeon.

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Seeing you attribute such pithinesse to a shaking reede, wee are content to see you brandish your owne speare: the weapons that came out of your own Armorie, may happily serue best for your owne vse; And though wee could wish you to make experiment of your valour in spirituall assaults, yet (rather then our discourse should shrinck in the wet­ting) we are not vnwilling to heare you presse your owne arguments, touching the Churches Pag. 91 perpetuall Tradition to pray for Saints in Purgatorie in the next life.

Saint Cyril Pag. 91 Arch-bishop of Ierusalem, liuing in Constantine the Great his time, writeth of that pra­ctise in this sort. When we offer vp Sacrifice, wee pray for our deceased Fathers and Bishops, and finally for al men de­parted amongst vs, for we beleeue that this is a great help for the soules of them, in whose behalfe wee offer that Holy and fearefull Sacrifice, which is laid vpon the Altar. Saint Chrisostome saith as much, that it was not vnadui­sedly decreed by the Apostles, that in the fearefull My­steries, there should be a commemoration of the dead, for they knew the dead receiued great benefite and vtilitie thereby.

Your Pinfold of Purgatorie is no whit the stronger, for eyther of these testimonies. It is not once named, nor presupposed. If you confesse that the Fathers, Bishops, and all men departed (for whome they) prayed were pinned vp in that Coope, then is your argument of some force. But seeing your Cha­ritie dare not passe so rash a Censure, their generall practise Suffragia [...]u­iusmodi non pro­sunt animabus in vita aeterna. Iniuriam facit Martyri qui o­rat pro Martyre. Pet Ierem. Ser 25. de Suffragijs mortuorum. cannot establish your particular dreame. [Page 152] Saint Chrisostome telles you that these Sacrifices and Prayers, whereof Cyril speaketh, were Commemorati­ons of the dead, which you may be the better induced to beleeue, because they prayed for All: whereof some were Patriarches, some Martyrs, some Confes­sors, and manie of them blessed Saints, alreadie inue­sted with Celestiall glorie. Saint Cyrils Sacrifice in the behalfe of these could be no other, then the Sa­crifice of Prayse; which seeing he attributeth (with­out distinction) to all the faithfull departed alike, your differenced Purgatorie-paines are not at all eased, by this ancient, pious, and laudable practise.

There was a time when the Romanists also Pet. Ieremias ibid. prayed for the Vessels in glorie, in this manner: An­nue nobis Domine vt animae famuli tui Leonis haec prosit oblatio. But being better aduised, (least praying for the Saints in glorie they might nullifie the presup­posall of Purgatorie Indigence) they haue changed it thus, Annue Domine quaesumus intercessione Beati Leonis haec nobis prosit oblatio.

It is most true that the Greeke Church prayed for the dead, yet make they no mention of Purgatorie; Apol. graec. pag. 119. We haue not receiued (say they) from our Doctors, that there is anie such temporarie punishment by fire, and wee know that the East Church neuer thought so.

Yet doth hee produce Cyril, that this is a great helpe for the soules of them, in whose behalfe wee of­fer that Holy Sacrifice.

You shall not neede to haue this knot cut, which may be so easily vntied. It was then generally [Page 153] receiued amongest those ancient Fathers, Bart. Medin. Six. Senens. Bibl. lib. 6. anno. 344. that the soules of the Saints being receiued into an outward Court of Heauen called Abrahams bosome, did not see God vntill the daie of judgement; from this ground­lesse Supposition, proceded their mortuarie oblati­ons, whereby they were petitioners for the hastning of their remoue into the highest Heauen, not for the lessening or mitigation of any scorching agonies, the feare whereof the Popes pecuniarie Hobgoblinets (vnder the conduct of superstitious deuotion) did af­terwards rayse. Your argument drawne from tradi­tion, as it hath error for her originall, so hath it Sophi­strie for the Abettor. They prayed for the Martyrs, and for all the righteous from Abel; and yet you saie with Cyprian, Falce Martyrij omnia peccata creduntur purgata. They prayed for the consummation of their glorie, as De obit. Theo­dos. Ambrose for Theodosius and Valenti­nian, whom he had pronounced as vndoubted heires of the Heauenly Hierusalem: and Augustine for his mother Monica, the safetie of whose soule was not so much as questioned; whereas your oblations are of another Dye, being neyther Congratulations for their present joyes, nor testifications of your Christian hope but imaginarie reliefes from that place, which Scrip­ture doth not specifie, and from those paines which 1. Cor. 13.67. Charitie hath no warrantise to misdoubt.

If they will draw in a Purgatorie perforce, in my mind they should doe better (for the auoiding of partialitie) to let the bodie, (which hath not the least part in the pleasure and fomenting of sin) haue a turne or two in those flames, as well as the soule: [Page 154] Shall the terrestriall part sleepe in peace, and shal the spirituall part pay so deare, for the workes of the flesh? This were to giue the bodie a Pares in culpa. Pares in poena. priuiledge and prerogatiue aboue the soule.

Nick You digresse: I was about to craue his answer to Art. 18. pag. 86. b. Roffensis his relation, who sayth that the Greekes to this day doe not beleeue there is a Purgatorie, and that in their Commentaries there is verie litle or no mention thereof at all. Yea the Latines (saith hee) did not all of them together receiue the truth of this matter, but by litle and litle; Whereunto Polydore also seemeth to assent.

You Pag. 92 omit that which you haue in your Latine Originall, Quantum opinor, as I now thinke or ghesse, sayth that Bishop, which is lesse then a new nothing to hang on your sleeue. For though Roffensis at that time had such a thought, not hauing then so fully perused the Graecian Fathers, yet afterwardes in that verie Booke, when hee commeth to speake of Purgatorie, he doth affirme the con­trarie in expresse tearmes.

He hath a verie simple Naperie, who is faine to wipe his nose with a Foxes taile. Did that Bishop write in such hast, (without perusall) that hee had no leisure to giue a dash to so short a sentence, in a point so materiall, hauing before the finishing of his worke found the bush, that could stoppe so maine a gappe? Did his wisdome giue such reines to his vnru­ly pen, to say and vnsay without a check? What an­cient Greeke Father doth hee nominate to contradict his former opinion?

Whereas Pag. 93 Luther did obiect, that the Greeke [Page 155] Church did not beleeue Purgatorie, he maketh this answer: I take it you meane the vulgar multitude of that Nation, not the Fathers of the Graecian Church; for that the Grae­cian Fathers fauour Purgatorie, the workes they left behind them doe witnesse.

Without all question Purgatorie was great­ly in their fauour, when they could not so much as once vouchsafe to name it, throughout their manie bookes. Had they beeleued it, their Charitie would haue compelled them to reueale it. Your Roffensis I perceiue was then in a desperate case; least Tradition shold be also wrung out of his clutches, he is inforced to trie his wits: and loe how gaily hee distinguisheth, I take it you meane the vulgar multitude of that Nation, not the Fathers, as if they would not haue receiued it, if their Doctors had deliuered it. Is it not a rare Iest, to search for the Records of faith inter Idiotas? Could they haue beene raysed from their graues to testifie that by word of mouth, which they were before vnable to write, the Bishops surmise had beene more reasonable. And what tokens of loue doth he bring from those Fathers to Purgatorie? forsooth they mention Sacrifice and Prayer for the dead; that so the soules departed being yet (as they thought) some­what recluse, might more speedily enjoy the beatifi­call vision of God; as also that condigne prayse might be rendred to the Almightie, by the aide of whose grace they were enabled to die in the faith.

Whereas Ibid. Luther obiecteth that Purgatorie could not be proued out of the Scripture, Roffensis repli­eth, that to pray for soules in Purgatorie is a most Ancient custome of the Church.

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I promise you a wittie answere, and to good purpose. Tis an ill Horse that can neyther wey-hey, nor wagge his taile. Your faction were li­tle beholding to him, if hee would not say that it is a most ancient custome. All the craft lies in the catching of this swift-wing'd proofe. Could the Doctor come to lay salt vpon the taile of it, we should soone haue it in our dish.

Saint Paul who was rapt vp into the third Heauen, should know as much concerning the most abstruse mysteries, as the best. He writing ex professo to the 1. Thes. 4. Thessalonians touching the state of the dead, and prefacing his speech with Nolumus vos ignorare de dormientibus, speakes not one word of this new­found Land, nor of any ransome to bee payed for their enlargement, who are there imprisoned. Yea more, he closeth that discourse with this Epilogue, that hee would haue them comfort one another with these sayings: which had not beene so properly, or seasonably spoken, were there a Purgatorie, and pe­nall satisfaction to be vndergone after this life. The foolish Virgins that cried, Mat. 25.8. Date nobis de oleo vestro, were non-suted with a nenō sufficiat nobis & vobis. So that the deceased estate of your declining Purgato­rie, receiuing so small a subsidiarie supply from that high & sacred Court of the Apostolical Synod, must be faine to stand to Roffensis his temporizing credu­litie.

You Pag. 93. 94 haue the whole Armie of the Christian Church in all ages set in battaile-aray against you: the blessed Apostles with pikes (as I may say) of Diuine au­thoritie standing in the forefront.

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Indeed if Roffensis were an Apostle, the Sett is yours. He saith it is a most auncient custome of the Church; but he falters in his euidence.

To impeach Pag. 91. the authority of the Church is the badge of heresie, to condemne her custome is insolent mad­nesse.

This is your Ladies A.B.C. your Church is as much beholding vnto you, as was Pythagoras to his Schollars. In stead of Ipse dixit, you will haue Ip­sa dixit.

What man Pag. 94. 95. that hath any bit, either of diuinity in his head, or Christianity in his heart, or Sobriety in his tongue, would accuse Catholickes for esteeming the Ipsa dixit of the Church, as much as the Pythagorians did the Ipse dixit of their Master? Why should not this Ipsa, the Mother of Christians, the Spousesse of the Holy Ghost, this Pillar and Foundation of truth, this Daughter of God the Father, washed with the bloud of his Sonne, that shee might in her doctrine haue no blemish of errour: Why should not her word (I say) be more esteemed of by her chil­dren, then the saying of Pythagoras a Pagan Philosopher was with his Schollars?

I aske the banes of matrimony betweene Water and Woort. Doe you think to out-swagger vs with your Rhetorique? then I tell you Doctor, your Romish Church is not the right subiect for those sweet attributes. She is not the Mother of Christians, but the Foster-dame of Heretiques: Not the Spouse of the holy Ghost, but the Minion of Antichrist: Not the Pillar, but the Poller of truth: Not the Daughter of God the Father, but the Bastard of Sathan: Not wa­shed [Page 158] in the bloud of his Sonne, but polluted with the loathsome staines of Heathenish Idolatry. If words will carry it, wee will roll in our figures as well as you.

Oh what Pag. 95. glorious Fathers and Doctors could I name, famous in former ages for sanctity and learning, that submitted their iudgements to the sayings of the Church.

O what a glorious Church were your An­tichristian Synagogue, did it not dissent from that primitiue purity of doctrine, whereunto those fa­mous Doctors, and holy Fathers did subscribe; then were it insolent madnesse in any, to reiect her autho­rity.

Little Pag. 96. Iudgement or piety doe you shew in your iest at our Ladies A. B. C: as if the authority of the Church were not the Alphabet and Christ-Crosse row, in which all Christians ought, and all ancient Christians did learne, to read and beleeue the Scriptures. S. Augustine the Phoenix of wits, the Mirrour of learning, did hee not learne in this booke? Truly (saith he) I would not belieue the Gospell, did not the Churches authority mooue mee vnto it.

Sooner shal you perswade vs that a foule noy­some Stye is a faire princely pallace, then that your Romish Seminary is that Church, of which S. Au­gustine spake. And yet must that holy Father bee Non dispu­tas ad idem. rightly vnderstood; He spekes there of his Introdu­ction to the faith, not of the Foundation thereof. Be­ing before a Manichy, he could not of himselfe haue found the way, out of the darknesse of that blind he­resy, [Page 159] vnlesse the Catholique Church had lent him her hand, to conduct him to those Christall streames, by the Ecclesia propo­suit Euangelium Euangeliu com­posuit fidem. vertue whereof his eyes were opened, and his mynd enlightened. He had beene like enough to haue passed by that Liuing fountaine without regard, had not their Causa sine qua non. direction, who had made triall of the soueraignty therof, persuaded him to make his re­payre thither for the like successe. Wherefore he should haue bene very vngrateful for so irrequitable a benefit, had he concealed the meanes whereby that his so great happines was so luckily occasioned. What good he receyued from the Church, he freely acknowledgeth; yet is he not so vniust as to make his requital with the Scriptures Non dicit, Ni­si me Ecclesiae authoritas Mo­ueret: sed Com­moueret. wronge. Yea so farre is he from subiecting those infallible Oracles to the Iudgement of Men, that in the fourth Chapter of the same Aug. Cont. Epist. funda. booke, he challengeth the Manichyes to produce Scripture, for their opinionatiue error, with protestation that he would then forsake the name of the Church, the Consent of people and Nations, and returne vnto them. So that howsoeuer the authority of the Church was an allectiue inducement, to drawe him to the Ghospell, yet was the Ghospell a farre more potent instrument in the founding, and setling of the spirituall edifice of his faith, vppon the soli­dity whereof he did principally, and most confi­dently depend.

If it had not bene for the tydings of the little 2. Reg. 5.3. Mayd, Naaman had not gone to the Prophet in Sa­maria, by whose praescript he was healed. Shall we therefore saye, that she had any hand in the curing [Page 160] of his leprosy? No doubt her courtesie was not for­gotten; but the mayne homage and rewarde was of­fered to the man of God. Had it not bene for the Ioh. 4.42. Woman, the Samaritans had not come vnto Christ: but they heard him speake, before they knew him to be Christ; then (loe) they beleiued, not because of her wordes, but because themselues had heard him.

The Pag 57. Ladies of your Church learne forsooth of the spirit: they trust to ipse dixit, who will teach them which is the Scripture. They are the sheepe of Christ, and knowe his voice, from that of strangers. Theise are your Ministers faire promises; Yet I dare giue them my worde: though they haue the best spirit that euer possessed any man of your Church, notwithstanding they maie erre damnably, mi­stacke Scripture, thinck that to be true translation, which is indeed erroneous. I see Pag. 98. no remedy for them, if they meane to be saued from the Deluge of errours, but to fly to the Arke of Noe printed at Venice; Your sheepe must learne in an hebrew Grammar, to vnderstand their Pa­stors; they must nibble on those rootes of Iury, wherewith it would be great pitty your rare Creatures should be trou­bled.

As touching our translations of the Bible, though they admit a variety of style and phrase, yet they concurre in a Sympathizing vnity of matter and sence. They all accord in one issue without contra­diction: they all direct by one and the same waye, to one and the same end; so that the most vnlearned, if he haue not a desire to goe astray, cannot tread a­misse. There being but one choice of truth propo­sed, there is hardly any possibility of being deceiued. [Page 161] The Ladyes are not ignorant, with what princely Cost and Care that Worke hath bene lately reuised, by such graue, learned, and industrious persons, who for knowledge in the originall tongues were best e­steemed, and for their sincerity least to be suspected. Wherefore, this hauing past the test of strictest dis­cusse, being allowed by the Church, and vncontrolled by the most prying and Censorious aduersarie, they are assured of the infallible truth thereof. By the sweetnes of the fruite they euidently see, that it sprang from a sound Roote: by the illumination of the 1. Ioh. 2.20. spirit which leadeth into all trueth: by the ministry of the worde of God, ratifyed with the In Euangelijs omnis veritas, & omnis mani­festatio veritatis Origen. agreement, and explaned with the perspicuous reasons, of the Scri­pture it selfe: by the efficacy thereof in captiuating their vnderstandings vnto the diuine will, and their carnall affections to the regiment of a supernaturall lawe: by often reading, which begetteth experience, and by hearty prayer, which hath a promise of ef­fectuating their zealous desires; they are infallibly sure, that their translation is true, and their vnder­standing agreable to the rule of faith. Moreouer, the principles of faith, with are absolutely, and necessa­rily to be knowne, beleiued, and practized of all men, are there blazed with such a Aug de doct. chris. l. 2. c. 9. radiant lustre, that (without affected ignorance) they are obuious to euery eye. Though perhaps the genuine interpreta­tion of some places of lesse consequence be some­tymes mistaken, yet is not the foundation raced; so that their error is neither pernicious, nor damnable.

If our Ladyes thus furnished in their mother [Page 162] tongue, hauing no recourse to the hebrew text, be in such danger of errour; in what a pittifull plight are those creatures, who are tyed to their vulgar latin translation, which they vnderstand not? How shall they trye the spirits of their teachers, hauing so croo­ked a rule, which they know not how to vse? May not such a Pilot as D ^r. Iabal steere their vessells vpon the rockes and sandes? how shall they know that this or that is the sence or Tradition of the Catholique church? I see no remedy for them but to fly to Socra­tes, Zozomen, Eusebius, Theodoret and the other Anti­quaries for releife, and then they must be well skilled in the tongues.

Yf there should be a grammar schoole e­rected for the feminine gender, it would be a braue world: Iabal would sue for the Vsher-shipp; O how featly would he discipline their Albes! There would be Tollo, tollis, sustuli. The Girles will neuer consent to so harsh a motion; they had rather speake true en­glish at home, then make false latin at Schoole, vnder such an yll-faced Tutor.

Had not Pag. 58. Luther the first fruites of the protestants spirit? Yet he erred most grossely: that euen Zuinglius his fellow-witnes against the Pope, doth giue this testimony a­gainst him; Thou Luther doest corrupt the worde of God, thou art seene to be a manifest corrupter of the holy Scrip­tures. If he be so corrupt, what translation or spirit of your church may your Ladies trust?

These are not the first fruites of your witlesse malice, neither was Luther the first Coyner of our protestant faith, which doth carry the right stampe [Page 163] of the most auncient, sacred, and primitiue truth. Let the Scripture be the arbitrator of his wri­tings, then will your slaunder be soone silenced and supprest with shame. As he was a man, he might be subiect to some particular error, which if Zuinglius reproued by warrant of the Scriptures, it proceeded from his loue to the truth, not out of hatred to his person. And haue there not bene worse broyles a­mong your scholasticall Diuines? Haue not the po­sitiue Constitutions of former Councells bene re­pealed by those that succeded? Haue not the Popes Decrees bene censured and discarded by their suc­cessors? Where was your Catholique spirit all that while? It is in vaine to looke for a Foelix qui mi­nimis vrgetur. heauen vppon earth. Shall the whole fabrick be puld downe, be­cause a Wyndowe, or a Chimney, or a Tyle is mis­placed? He is a good Architect that leaues nothing to mend. Zuinglius his reproofe may informe you, that our Church is more deuoted to the Scriptures verity, then to the most prime mans authority.

This is Pag. 98. 99. the felicity of our Catholike Ladies, that by the worde of the Church, they know certainlie, which is the letter of the scripture: Which your Ladyes like stray-sheepe must seeke on the topp of craggy mountaines, as the Knight tearmeth the Hebrew language, not without emi­nent daunger of an eternall downefall.

Here is a doe with the Ladies falling Yf you were their Gentleman Vsher, should they not haue a stout supporter? Stand to your tackling good Doctor.

There is such a Ibid. confusion in your Church, that as [Page 164] Irenaeus noted of auncient Heretikes, one shall scarce find two that will spell the same sence out of the same wordes.

Why hath God giuen such diuersity of guiftes to his Church, but that there should be Quid in diui­nis eloquiis lar­gius & vberius potuit diuinitus prouideri, quam vt e [...]dem verba pluribus inte li­gantur modu. Aug. de Doct. Chris. lib. 3. variety of applications? Is not the Kings Daughter in fimbrijs aureis circumamicta Psal. 45.14. varietatibus: Clad in a vesture wrought about with diuerse colours? If the stuffe be the same, tis no great matter though the lace and embro­dery be not laid in all alike. What contradictions can can you specify in their expositions?

These foure Pag. 99. wordes, Hoc est corpus meum, contayning not aboue fourteene letters, you haue deuised aboue fower times fortie expositions, so different, as the Authors of the one, damne the Fauorers of the other to Hell.

A fitt receptacle for all such loud lyars, who care not what Crudityes they vomit, vppon the bo­some of the most eminent and innocent persons, without either feare or shame.

They that are conuersant in the writings of your Catholique Authors, know that there is allmost as much difference among them, about the three letters of this one sillable, Hoc, as is amongst the Pro­testants, in the whole sentence.

If Mercury himselfe were amongst them with his rodd of truce, all his Rhetorique would hardly teach them their Quid dem? quid non dem? renuis tu, quod iubet alter. Concordes. Iabal forgets how Leo the second condemned Pope In Epist. ad Imperat. ad fin. 6. Synod. Honorius for an Heretique. Had Zuinglius serued Luthers bookes, as Pope Platina in Sa­bin. & Senens. lib. 4. pag. 23. Sabinian did the workes of Gregorie his prede­cessor, wee should haue an outcry against fiery spirits; then he might more tolerably haue demaunded, What shal your poore Ladies do in this combate?

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They may Pag. 99. rashly perswade themselues, that this or that exposition is the best, but certaine of any thing they can neuer bee, till they admit the Catholike Ladies A.B.C. the Churches authoritie, learning of her the sence, of whom they tooke the text.

When the men of Thessalonica Act. 17.11 tried the Apostles Doctrine, whether it were true or no: did they send a Legate to learne the judgement of the Church of Rome? Vnto whom did they repaire, but vnto Scrutabantur Scripturas. him, that had the wordes of life? Our La­dies are not so raw in the Scriptures, but that (if there were such difference amongst our Ministers as you suppose) they can take that which doth best a­gree with the Analogie of Faith, and the Rule of Charitie. The spirit of God is not so fixed to the Doctors chaire, but that it is most free, to make euen them of the lowest forme Super Senes intellexi: quia mandata tua quaesiui, Psa. 119 v. 100. wise vnto saluation:

I haue heard a worthie speech of Panormitan often alleaged to this purpose, that there is more credit to be giuen to one Plus creden­dum viro Laico afferenti Scrip­turas, &c. Laick that bringeth Scripture then to a generall Councell, representing the vniuersall Church, if it haue not the warrant of the word. It is not long time since I read how Paphnutius by this meanes preuai­led against a whole Synode, and stopped the passage of the warrantlesse superstition of single life. And not without great reason. For if antiquitie be to bee respected, or consent to be regarded, the Prophets and Apostles haue the superioririe in both.

Whereas he complaines of confusion and danger of misinterpretation, for the magnifying of Tradition, he forgets the censure of Lib. 3. Cap. 2 Irenaeus vpon [Page 166] the prime Heretiques, for the same quarrell. Difficilis pau­cisque conue­niens eruditis. Aug. aduers. Iulian. l. 5. c. 1 Iulian the Pelagian thought, by objecting the perplexed dif­ficultie of the Scriptures, to haue brought his cause to a forraigne barre. Notable is that speech of Cy­prian, so much applauded by Saint In Epist. ad Pomperanum cont. Epist. Ste­phani. Augustine, In compendio est (sayth hee) apud religiosaes mentes & er­rorem deponere, & inuenire atque erure veritatem. Si ad diuinae traditionis caput & originem reuertamur, ces­sat error humanus. Si canalis aquae deficiat, nonne ad fontem pergitur? Si in aliquo nutauerit veritas, ad origi­nem Dominicam & Euangelicam & Apostolicam tradi­tionem reuertamur. Inde surgat actus nostri ratio, vnde & ordo & origo surrexit. Saint Ambrose denies your pretended difficultie. Paulus (saith hee) in plerisque ita se ipse in suis exponit Sermonibus, vt is qui tractat nihil inueniat quod adijciat suum, aut si velit aliquid dice­re, Grammatici potius quam Disputatoris fungatur mu­nere. When as Cresconius pressed Saint Augustine with Cyprians authoritie, what was his answere? Lite­ras Cypriani (saith Cont. Cres­con. li. 2. c. 32 he) non vt Canonicas habeo, sed eas ex Canonicis censidero, & quod in eis diuinarum Scriptu­rarum authoritati congruit, cum laude eius recipto, quod autem non congruit respuo. The same Father writing vpon the seuen and fiftieth Psalme, shewes the like resolution. Auferantur chartae nostrae, procedatin me­dium Codex Dei. Let our Writings stand aside, and let the booke of God be brought forth. This was that Vm­pier vnto whose authoritatiue sentence Extant Apo­stolici libri & Prophetarum Sanctiones, quae nos erudiunt quid de rebus sacris sent [...]re de­beamus. Theo­doret. lib. c. 7. Constantine wished the Bishops to stand, for the appeasing of the differences which arose amongest them in the Coun­cell of Nice. This is that 2. Pet. 1.19 shining light, whereunto [Page 167] Saint Peter wils vs to attend; and hereunto wee are the rather incouraged, because Christ himselfe hath promised, Ioan. 7. v. 17 that he who hath a faithfull heart, and an obedient mind to doe his will: cognascet de Doctrina vtrum ex Deo sit. So that if the Gospell be hid 2. Cor. 1.3 Non propter ser­uos fidelis sed propter fines diuitiae Scriptu­rarum sub figillo clauduntu [...]. A­quin. in Apoc. cap. 1. ex Am­brosio. it is to them that perish; whose minds the God of this world hath blinded, that the light of the Gospell should not shine vnto them.

You haue giuen him Towe enough for this Distaffe. If I might bee now so bold as to interpose a question, I would request the Doctor to resolue me in this. Our Sauiour at his last Supper gaue the Cup, saying, Mat. 26.27. Bibite ex hoc omnes. The Romish In­terpreters appropriate it, to the Priest only. Saint Paul teacheth that mariage is Heb. 13.4 honourable amongest all men; they say that it is dishonorable to the Clear­gie. Christ tels his Apostles that the Kings of the Nations beare rule ouer them: vos autem non sic; They say that Cardinals are more than Papa Sceptra ligonibus equat. Kings fellowes, and that the Pope hath power in his great toe, to spurne them from their regiments. The Law of God teacheth vs that Images are not to bee worshipped; they make their Proselytes fall prostrate before them. Saint Paul saith, Nemo vos iudicet in cibo & potu: they make it more capital then adulterie, to eat flesh vpon Video precep­tum esse ieiunti [...], quibus autem diebus in Euan­gelicis l [...]teris non video definitum. Aug. Epist. 86 friday. The Scripture is peremptorie that we are iustified by faith, without the works of the Law; they magnifie the sufficiencie, yea the surplussage of workes. Now in this combate, what shall your poore Ladies doe? whom shall they beleeue? If the Church bee Eph. 2.20 built vpon the foundation of the Prophets and A­postles, [Page 168] then are these the Iudges, by whome the truth must be tried.

You Pag. 99 neede I feare the remembrance Zeno gaue to a talker, that was often laughed at for his folly; Loqui lingua in mentem intincta; to speake with your tongue dipped in wit, not in wine.

You haue lapp'd so long (with your saucie tongue) in the Bowle of wit, that you are now faine to feed vpon verie drie conceipts. If your perished braines were taken out and washed in a neat cup of white wine, your wit would bee farre more briske. Haue you forgot the old Fryars complaint,

Doth not your Iouiall Genius fall once a moneth in­to such a veine?

My Masters, I feare we had need send for a Stickler to part the fray; Your iangling will make Master Vicar forget what he was about to say. Mee thought I heard him naming Saint Ambrose.

That which I had thought to produce as an vpshot of the point in hand from that Father, was [Page 169] this. Amb. de virg. lib. 4. Nos noua omnia (saith he) quae Christus non docuit, iure damnabimus, quià Fidelibus Christus via est. Si ergo Christus nō docuit, quod docemus etiam nos, detestabile iu­dicus. S. Chrysostome also tels In Rom. hom. vlt. vs, that there would bee no offences nor differences, vnlesse some opinion were broathed, contrarie to the Apostolicall Doctrine. And In Mat. hom. 25 & similiter in Leuit. cap. 5 Origens wordes are these, Sicut omne aurum quod fuerit extra templum non est sanctificatum: Sic omnis sensus qui fuerit extra diuinam Scripturam, quam­uis admirabilis videatur quibusdam, non est sanctus. As the gold which was without the Temple, was not hallowed: So neyther is the sence, which is without the verge of scrip­ture, to be approued. So that touching prayer for the dead, wee saie with Saint Hierome, Hieron in Titum. Sine authoritate Scripturarum garrulitas non habet fidem. And with S. De officijs l. 1 Ambrose, Quae in Scripturis Sacris non reperimus, quemadmodum volumus vsurpare possimus. And with Tertullian Nobis curiositate opus non est post Iesum Christum, nec inquisitione post Euangelium: Cum credi­mus, nihil desideramus vltra credere. Hoc enim prius credimus, non esse quod vltra credere debemus: And with In Decret. 11 Quaest. 3. Gratian, Is qui praeter voluntatem Dei, vel praeter id quod in Sanctis Scripturis euidenter praecipitur, vel dicit aliquid imperat, tanquam falsus testis Dei aut Sacri­legus habeatur. Which Censure. I can hardly perceiue how the Doctor wil shun seeing that without either euidence of Scripture, or warrant of anie Primitiue Father, he would Stamen flacci­dum arancosi pertexit. Basil. impose vs (vnder the glorious title of his Church) so super-stitious a Custome.

Their Romish Church is Magna Diana Ephesiorum, of more principalitie, then the rest; her au­thority [Page 170] must out-sway Scriptures, Fathers, & what­soeuer else is of most sacred esteeme.

Saint Irenaeus a Pag. 120. most Ancient Bishop and Mar­tyr, who liued immediately after the Apostles dayes, doth giue the former stile to the Roman Church, planted by the most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul Ad quam propter potentiorem principalitatem, necesse est omnem conuenire Ecclesiam; which principalit [...]e you cannot imagine what else it may be, besides the Primacie of Peter, to whome Christ did make subiect all other Pastors and Churches; by the light of which singular priuiledge bestowed on this Church in her first Pastor, shee doth shine, Velut inter ig­nes Luna minores And in this respect the Roman Church may be termed Diana.

It is not vnlike, for shee hath turn'd you into a fugitiue, and sencelesse Creature; If you bee wearied in the Chase, you know whom to thanke.

In my opinion Iabal is taken in his own toile: & tript in his own turne. The Roman Church (saith he) shines, as the Moone amongst the lesser starres. He doth well to say, as the Moone; which is still in the change. Shee that was a beautifull Fuimus Troes. Queene, in the dayes of Irenaeus, is now become a painted Peiora nouissi­ma primis. Harlot, prosti­tuted to all manner of Impuritie? Superstition hath blowne vpon Dianas Nimphes, so that they can now no longer stand vpon tearmes of virginitie. She that was Princesse amongst the Churches is made tribu­tarie to Sathan; her light is ecclipsed with Idolatrous positions, and Antichristian practises. She hath chan­ged her Tune lignei calices & aurei Sacerdotes: Nunc aurei cali­ces & lignei Sacerdotes. Bernard. wodden Chalices; but she hath lost her golden Priests.

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Had Irenaeus taken Principalitie in your sence, for an absolute spirituall, and vniuersall pre­heminence, and jurisdiction, ouer al other Churches, he would not haue beene so bold, as to controle that great Victor, chiefe Superintendent of so predomi­nant a Sea; You may probably imagine he intended no such necessarie subiection thereunto, (as would serue your turne) seeing hee Euseb. li. 5. c. 23 joyned with those, who did communicate with the Asian Churches, notwithstanding the excommunication, which the Pope had denounced against them. The Church of Rome was then in the ful, (glittering with splendencie of Martyrdome) wherefore hee sendeth the Here­tikes, (with whom hee was confronted) thither for light, where the brightest rayes of orient truth were most conspicuous. Had hee liued to see Turbanus that man of sinne (with the furze-bush of superstiti­ous Trumperies at his backe) seated in your Moone, hee would haue blessed himselfe at the sight, of so strange a Metamorphosis.

Heretikes Pag. [...]01 in all ages haue beene condemned, by the Iudgement of the Roman See; by the light of her au­thoritie, they were forced to see the deformitie of their hel­lish pride. This consideration mooued Saint Augustine to say, that the Catholike Church deriued from the Apo­stolike See partly by the authoritie of Councels, partly by the Consent of the World, partly in the Maiestie of Mira­cles, had obtained the height of authoritie, frustra circum la­trantibus haereticis.

Forward Children are seldome long-liued; Wel-fare him that hath a winter-witte long a ripe­ning. [Page 172] Did you euer heare such an vnmellow kind of arguing? That which Saint Augustine speakes of the Catholike Church, hee applies to his Romish Syna­gogue. Admit hee had spoken of Iabals Apostolike See, as it then was; Whence did it obtaine the height of authoritie, but from the Consent of Propter quod vnumquodque tale illud magis tale. Councels, and from the maiestie of truth? Doth this make any thing for the Principalitie of Rome innouated, which is now so farre from taking her authoritie from Councels, that she disanulleth, and ouerswayeth them at her pleasure? So farre from receiuing countenance from the truth, that shee discardeth the most sacred veritie, which beareth not the Impresse of her par­tiall sences. If I bee not deceiued, Heretikes haue beene also confuted, and condemned, by Damascene, Epiphanius, Irenaeus, and other Greeke Fathers as suf­ficiently, as by the Popes of Rome. It were wel if you would now dippe the tippe of your tongue in one dramme of witte, to giue a better relish to your speech.

Whilest Rome (being the most opulent, po­pulous, and eminent Citie of Christendome) helde forth the burning Taper of Gods truth, there was great reason she should bee held in especiall regard; but now, (the Candlesticke being remoued) it is as iust, that her authoritie should bee lessened. Saint Lib. de peccat. merit. & remis. cap. 27. Augustine was not so Parasiticall, as to flatter her in her errours. There was a Case wherein bee did not sticke to say, Magis me mouet authoritas Ecclesia­rum Orientalium. And Aeneas Siluius is not afraid to say, that before the Nicene Councell, there was no [Page 173] great respect had of Rome. So thar it is not the person of Peter, but her Constancy in the faith of Peter, that did make her great. Besides, the greatnes whereof S. Augustine doth speake, is not ascribed to the Roman, but to the whole Catholique Church.

I doe not remember that we receyued either Scriptures, Creede, or the fower first generall Coun­cels, or any foundation of faith from the Roman Church.

Perhaps Pag. 102. your reason is, because these Councells were held, not in Europe but in Greece: but the cause was the purity of one, neuer falling into heresy, and the infe­licity of the other, neuer to be without the inuentors of such Monsters. Those heresies against which such Councells were called, did spring vp in Greece. This was the cause that the Orthodoxall Bishops of Greece in defence of trueth, were often forced to fly for succour to the Roman.

Had there bene such Principality in the Pa­pal Sea as you surmise, those Heretiques would rather haue bene cited to the Romish Consistory, and there receyued their doome. Those worthie Pa­triarches, Athanasius and Paulus, sent not vnto the Pope, as vnto one Supreame vnder God vppon earth, ouer the flock of Christ; but as vnto a Christian Bishop, who was bound to interpose his best ayde, for the Peace of the Church. Besides those of Rome, there also were other Bishops, whose presence was there also required; I hope you will not saie there was a su­periority in all.

Nay In vita Boni­facij 3. Platina tells vs, that the whole Greeke Church was so farre from yeilding to the [Page 174] Popes It differed also in the obser­uation of the feast of Easter. Supremacy, that they complained, when Phocas conferred it vppon Boniface. It is an incredible happines, which you ascribe to the Roman Church, that it neuer fell into heresy, when as the 2. Thes. 2.7. mystery of iniquity began to worke, euen in the age of the A­postles. Then was Iob. Mar. belg. pag 441. Petrarch too blame for calling Rome the Whore of Babylon, and Hist. pag. 535. Mathew Paris for saying, she was a shamelesse, common, and prostituted whore. Did not Marcellinus commit Idolatry, in of­fering sacrifice to Iupiter? Did not Pope Liberius fall into Arianisme, when Athanasius stood vppon his right feete? I am sure you haue heard that Honorius the first was a Monotholite, holding that Christ had but one will, and one nature.

The Pag. 102. sincerity of doctrine, as Ruffinus noteth, is the cause that the Church of Rome did neuer add, any worde or sillable to the Creede: but kept the same intire without ad­dition.

Then you graunt as much as we craue: that those principall Iewells, which the Catholique Church prizest most, came not out of Roomes Trea­sury. Me thincks you should blush, when you name Ruffinus: for how haue you degenerated from that auncient Rome, who haue not bene ashamed to add not only sillables, but more then eleuen articles, to the Apostolicall Creede? Reckon them vppon your fingers, and you shall neither finde the Popes Supre­macy nor Purgatory &c. which you haue added as poyntes of like necessity to be beleiued.

Then haue they litle affinity with the true Church, for Lett. to T. H. pag. 68. she taketh not vppon her to controll the [Page 175] holy Scripture her mother, from whome she drew her first breath: She openeth not her mouth, till her Mother haue deliuered her minde; she commeth not of her owne head▪ with a sleeuelesse arrant.

You Pag 104. describe the Spouse of Christ, as a mannerly young mayd brought vp in Luthers schoole. You deserue a Pag. 106. coate with foure sleeues for this Metaphor, which maketh the Church Scripture Daughter.

Are these the Praef. Cumaean sopps you promi­sed? take heede least you pluck an old house ouer your eares. Such liueries best befitt your indigent followers. Let him weare your fooles-coate with fower sleeues, that is free of your company. You may cutt as large a thonge as you list of your owne hide.

The Metaphor is sacred, and doth not de­serue so ridiculous a weede. S. Peter vseth it, saying, that we are borne a newe, not of mortall seede, but of im­mortall, 1. Pet. 1.23. Rom. 10.17. by the worde of God. I haue begotten you saith S. Paul 1. Cor. 4.15. by the Ghospell. The Church being be­gotten and gathered by the worde, must not stand vppon tearmes of seniority with her progenitor.

The Pag. 107. Church of the old testament, was some thousand yeares before scripture: the Church of the newe testament did flourish many yeares, before any Ghospel was written. S. Irenaeus Pag. 106. 107 writeth that many Churches in his time had neuer read any worde of Scripture, yet did they flourish, by keeping the Tradition of Christian doctrine in their heartes.

A man might pose you; should he demaund what proofe you haue for your Negatiue, that there [Page 176] were no sacred bookes, before those fiue written by Moses: seeing he mentioneth a Num. 21.14 Booke of the warres of the Lord, and the Ioshua. 10.13 Booke of the Iust; what can you shewe to the contrary, why those bookes might not be written, by some of the Patriarches? Doth not St. Verse. 14. Iude alleadge a testimony out of the prophecy of Enoch?

Let vs not contend with him for this. What if we graunt that the vnwritten worde was more auncient? the difference was not in the matter, but in the manner. It was vnto them (being ratifyed by the Prophets, and confirmed by extraordinary reuela­tions) in the nature of a written worde. And when that worde was expressed in visible Caracters, Tradi­tions Mat. 15.3. were of no longer vse. As for the Ghospell, it was written before the Race of eye-witnesses was extinct: & what they preached, the same things they registred. So that it was one and the Proliteris spi­ritus Sancti gra­tiam se illis da­turum repromi­sit. Chrisost. bom. 1. in Mat. same worde, by which the Church in all ages hath bene gathered. For as Euseb. l. 3. 20. Irenaeus saith of Polycarpus, he deliuered those things, which he had learned of them, who had seene the worde of life, [...], wholy agreable to that which is written. The same Fa­ther Irenaeus l. 3. c. 1 also informes vs, that the Apostles left in wri­ting to the Church the same Ghospell, which they had formerly preached by worde of mouth: that it might be a foundation and pillar of our faith; yea of that true and liuely saith, which the Church hath recei­ued from them, and doth prescribe to her Children. As they preached, (saith S. Hierom.) for the confir­mation of faith; so was it necessary they should [Page 177] write, for the confusion of Heretiques. Contra in­sidiosos errores (saith S. In Epist. Ioh. 1. tract. 2. Augustine) voluit Deus pone­re firmamentum in Scripturis. Seeing then the ayme of Gods spirit, in the deliuery of diuine Scripture, (which is 2. Tim. 3.15. able to make a man wise vnto Saluation) was (as Theophilact writeth) to preuent haereses pullu­laturas: what doe they but open a gappe for all he­resyes, which giue waye to vnwritten, vncertayne, and vnnecessary Traditions? Considera quam sit extre­mae dementiae (saith S. Hom. 1. in Mat. Chrisostome) nos qui primam illam dignitatem perdidimus, ne secundo remedio vti velle ad salutem, sed coelestia scripta quasi frustrà ac vanè posita dispicere: Consider what extreme Vide Euseb. lib. 3. cap. 33. de Papiae Paradoxis traditione fulci­tis. madnesse it is, that wee who haue lost that first dignity, (of purity) should re­fuse to vse the second remedy for our Saluation, by contem­ning those heauenly writings, as if they were giuen in vaine, and for no vse. Thus in stead of the folly which you obiect, S. Chrisostome requites you with the note of no lesse then extreme madnesse.

Where is the perpetuall Pag. 104. 105. Virginity of the B. Mo­ther, after the sacred birth of the Sonne of God, written in the Scripture? What is it but à perpetuall tradition of Gods Church? S. Augustine saith it cannot be clearly proued out of Scripture, that Heretiques returning to the Church should not be rebaptized, and yet the Church hath forbid­den the same; Shall we tearme this prohibition sleeuelesse?

The perpetuall Virginity of the blessed Mo­ther, is no matter of saluation, whether we beleiue it or no. Yet are we of that opinion: because as we read not any thing to the contrary, so it sorteth best with her honour, who was the Mother of our Sauiour. As [Page 174] for rebaptizing of those, who were baptized by Efficacia Sa­cramenti est ex institutioni ordi­nansis, non ex sanctitate min [...] ­strantis. Baptismus talis est qual [...]s ille i [...] c [...]ius potestate datur, non quali [...] percuius ministe­rium datur. Aug. in Ioh. [...]. Heretiques, we rather follow Augustine then Cyprian; yet not because he hath taught it, but for that as him selfe saith, Ex Euangelio profero certa documenta: I haue sure Eph 4.5. proofes out of the Ghospell. Yea he pronounceth a Cont. lit. Petil. lib. 3. ca 6. curse vppon all such as teach any thing, either of Christ or his Church, or any other matter of faith be­sides that which is receyued, from the Legall and E­uangelicall Scriptures. I once heard a Papist excee­dingly puzled, with a speeck of his to Ad Max. lib. 3. cap. 14. Maximinus. Ne (que) ego Synodum Nicaenam, nectu Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus afferre. Nec ego huius authorita­te, nec tu illius detineris. Scripturarum auctoritatibus, non quorumcum (que) proprijs, sed vtris (que) communibus testibus, res cum re, causa cum causa, ratio cum ratione certet.

Irenaeus & Tertullian, who had to doe with such refractory Heretiques, as either denyed the pu­rity of the Scriptures, or traduced the perspicuity of them: did both of them appeale to Tradition, because they where challenged at that weapon, by their ad­uersaries. And by what Compasse did they saile? first they proue that alone to be true, and authenticall Tradition, which was deliuered by Christ to the A­postles, and by them to the Church; by whome it was successiuely deriued to posterity. Secondly they stand for no other Traditions, but for the very same articles of faith, which were contayned in the written worde. Peruse Irenae. lib. 1. cap. 2.3. & lib. 3. cap. 4. Tertul. lib. de praescrip. haeret. both their seuerall, and specificall Enumerations of Traditions, which the Church hath successiuely continued, and you shall find them to iumpe in all respects, with the Apostles Creede. Tis [Page 175] true they might haue proued them before compe­tent Iudges, by the authority of Scripture, but as the Case stoode, the authority of the Church was thought more preualent; and the rather, that they might shew the harmony thereof, with the holy Scriptures. Wherefore if you stand for such Tradi­tions as they vrge, it is fit your Bill should passe, other­wise you must not take it ill, if your Grace be stopt.

Doe but Pag. 105. read your learned Author Hierome Zanchius, who will giue you a newer tune, then that you haue piped vnto vs. That Author teacheth that diuerse vn­written Traditions, concerning Doctrine and Manners, are in the Church, which are not only profitable, but in a man­ner necessary, which we must reuerence and obey, else we contemne the authority of the Church, which is very dis­pleasing vnto God. Your D ^r. Feild grauntes that Papists haue good reason to equall their Traditions to the written worde, if they can proue any such vnwritten verities.

Zanchius meaneth not your Lenten fast, your Ecclesiasticall orders of Acolothytes and Exorcists: your Purgatory and Prayer for the dead, which you will sooner proue to be dreames, then Apostolicall Traditions; but the very same which Tertullian and Ire­naeus haue recorded for such. D ^r. Feildes (If) touching the poynt in question, carries the sence of an impossi­ble Supposition: which we haue reason to suspect, till your Purgatory shewe a better pedigree. If you can proue this, to be one of those vnwritten Traditiōs, whereof Zanchius speaketh, then we will (according to D ^r. Feildes aduise) not much dissent from your [Page 180] Conclusion, till then we must craue pardon.

The Pag. 107. places which the Knight alleadgeth to proue the Churches Doctrine in this pointe to be a Sathanicall figment, disgracefull vnto the great mercy of God, and eua­cuating the Crosse of Christ, are many: but either so triuiall and knowne, together with the Catholiques aunsweres, or else so ridiculously applied, wrung and wrested to your pur­pose, that their very sound is able to breake a learned mans head.

Then had you neede of a good head-peice, to beare off the weight of the blowe, whose sound ma­keth so great a battery. Yet if none but learned mens heads be in daunger of breaking, your rough-hewen skonce neede feare the lesse. Well, seeing my M ^r. is arrested for bloud-shed, he meanes to aunswere the action vpon Bayle. And for want of a better Atorney, let me craue a Coppy of your Plea.

Shall Pag. 108. I make the Analisis of his Rhetoricall arguments? They be three Enthymems I thinke. The first, The Gates of Hell shall not preuaile against the Church, er­go there is no Purgatory. The second, The scule of Christ went downe to the nethermost hell; ergo, no Purgatory can be found. The third, Christ bound the strong man, and tooke his Fortresse; ergo, Purgatory must vanish awaye.

The argument that once passeth your fin­gers, is not dismissed without a torne fleece: but seeing we must take it as you present it, let vs heare your exceptions, why it should vndergoe so triuiall and ridiculous a censure.

Can you Ibid. deny but many of your praedestinate and [Page 181] Elect are, for robbing and stealing, and other such crimes, locked vp in London Gaoles? What shall not Hell-gate preuaile against them? & shal the wal of a prison mew them vp? Hath the soule of Christ gone downe into the nether-most Hell, & made no passage through Newgates Limbo, where sometimes your Elect are kept? Hath hee bound the strong man, that hee should not harme, and shall now a Hangman put them to death? You perceiue I hope the va­nitie of your Inferences.

Hee that lookes vpon them through your spectacles, may read Absurdity indeed. But that you may know the falsenesse of your Glasse, by the mi­shapen Representation which it giueth to so well a proportioned face; you must bee aduertised, that the Knights argument was neyther so Wide-mouthed, nor so Goggle-eyed, as the picture which you haue drawne (according to your own Idaea) to resemble it. He speaks of the state of th'elect in the after-world, according to the intendement of the Scriptures alleaged; you wrest it to their corrections in this life, which haue their profitable vse. His scope looks to the satisfying of Gods Iustice, which Christ hath fully accomplished: and not to those Chastisements (which are as spurres to driue men to lay hold vpon that all-suffi­cient Sacrifice) at which your Squint-eyed suppositi­on doth glance.

There are sundrie reasons, why the Lord suffereth his Elect to vndergoe those bodily penal­ties. First, for the manifestation of his owne Iustice: Secondly, for their Correction, humiliation, and a­mendement, that their Spirits may bee saued in the [Page 182] day of the Lord: Thirdly, for the Caution and Ex­ample of others: Fourthly, for the maintenance of publike tranquillitie, and politique Societie, which could not subsist, without these and the like Iudiciall proceedings. But why their soules should be stopt in the passage to eternall blisse, (the Cinders of original Concupiscence being quite extinguished by death, and the Guilt of their former sinnes cleane defaced by the merit of Christ) there can no reason be yeelded, from the warrant of the word, which debarreth the strong man from surprizing, and the gates of Hell from pre­uailing against them which die in the Lord. So that the light of these Illustrations is not so easily ecclip­sed, by the interposition of your Duskish con­ceit.

They that Lett. pag. 87 die in the faith haue peace towards God: they that haue peace towardes God, are iustified by Christ: they that are iustified by Christ are free from the Law: and being free from the Law, Quis accusabit? Who shall late anie thing to their charge?

I could Pag. 109 cast your Elect into Hell from the first step of your Ladder. For they that die in the faith haue not peace towards God, except their faith be ioyned with good workes. Your Protestant faith is so light-footed, or light-headed rather, to beleeue that you shalbe saued, and your Charitie so heauie-heeled to doe good workes, by which men must be saued: that an eternitie of torments may passe, be­fore your workes ouertake your faith.

This shewes vnder whome you serue. Apoc. 9.11 A­b [...]ddon is your Tutor, and hee hath a destroyer (a bad one indeede) to his Pupill. I thought you had [Page 183] not beene so neare a kin to that euill spirit mentioned in Saint Lukes Luc. 4 35. Gospell, who brake the strongest chaines, casting the poore Demoniack downe, sometimes into the fire, and sometimes into the water. All that Sathan himselfe could doe, was to Mat. 4.6.8.9. per­swade our Sauiour to cast himselfe downe: but now wee haue met with a stronger then hee, one that will vndertake to throw the Elect from the highest pinnacle of their assured peace with God, into the fire of Purgatorie.

The amitie that is betweene a Iustifying saith and good workes, is such: that the linckes of their indissoluble coherence cannot possibly (not in thought) admit any separation. Yet doe you contra­rie to the expresse text of Scripture, labour a Diuorce, making a Nullitie of our peace towardes God, albeit wee die in the faith: by intruding a needlesse excep­tion of Ioynt-workes, with which a liuely faith is al­wayes in separably accompanied. Were he not wor­thie to be laughed out of his fooles Coat, that should say the Sunne doth not ripen and refresh the fruites of the earth, except his light be ioyned with heat? The Case is not much vnlike; there being the same impos­sible supposition, that a Christian faith should be de­stitute of good workes, as that the Sunne should want heat. He that dieth in the faith hath not only peace with his owne conscience, arising from the te­stimonie of his godly conuersation: but also peace towards God, through the merit of Christ, vpon whome hee solely and stedfastly relieth. This peace towards God, though it receiue augmentation of cer­taintie, [Page 184] and degree from workes annexed; yet hath it the prime being, and fundamentall Subsistence, from the vertue of the object which is apprehen­ded.

Hee forgets Saint Paules rule of not iudging, when hee takes vpon him to bee the Auditor of our workes. If he would put on his Holliday eyes at his owne home, he may happily there discouer, as great penurie of charitable deuotion, as hee layeth to our charge. You may know these Pharisaicall Trumpe­ters, by their puffed cheekes, swolne tongues, and Rheumatique mouthes: they are full of ostentati­on; but pluck of their sleeues, and you shall find their armes withered, and their handes as drie as the Pumice-stone, which will sooner grate off the skin, then yeeld a drop of anie comfortable moysture.

You say your Pag. 109.110. Elect are free from the Law: If you vnderstand it in Luthers sence, then though they commit whoredomes or murders, a thousand times a day, they need not care; the bloud of Christ freeth them from the Law.

Luther had great reason to attribute as much to the bloud of Christ, as your Ianizaries doe to the Pardons, that are granted by the Pope. Yet is hee farre more sparing: hee giues not encouragement to anie subiect, to lay violent and sacrilegious hands vpon his naturall, sacred, and anointed Prince, with assurance that the bloud of Christ will absolue him, from all danger of the Diuine Law, for so horrible a fact; according to the tenour of your immature, Sinne-kindling, and Soule-killing Indulgences. Hee [Page 185] only administreth a word of comfort in due season, to rayse vp distressed consciences from despaire, assu­ring them (by the authoritie of our Sauiours Pro­clamation) if by true repentance, and a liuely faith they come vnto him their, Ne formides adhuc [...]pes reliquiest, [...]uit I hanne E­uangelista latro­num daci. Eu­seb. lib. 3 cap. 17 burthens shall be eased, their thirst refreshed, and their Soules freed from the condemnation of the Law. I see you haue not yet left your old Spiders qualitie: Were you not of a ve­nemous constitution, you would not draw so pre­sumptuous a Conclusion from so sweete and justifia­ble a Cordiall.

You should vnderstand Pag 110 freedome from the Law in the Catholike sence, that the spirit of Christ ma­keth that yoke easie, and the burthen light, that in the Spirit of loue wee may keepe the Law with great ease, as Saint Iohn saith: His Commaundements are not hard. But I dare say your Protestant faith hath little of that Spirit, that dilateth the heart to runne the waie of Gods precepts, that it will neuer bee able to get vp this Ladder. Let them be indeed iust, let them bee Saints that keepe the Law.

Quis idoneus ad haec? The Spirit I confesse helpeth our infirmitie: the more wee grow in grace, the higher wee climbe; yet as long as the weight of flesh hangeth about vs, there is no such facilitie of climbing this ladder of the law, as you plead. While wee are here vpon this glassie Sea, our feet are set in slipperie places still subiect to slide. One horse Supe [...]a [...]eua­dere ad auras -Hoc opus, hic labor est. will draw faster down a hil, then ten vpward. But if your Saints can so easily keep the law how do they need so often confession, which was not only ordained for [Page 186] veniall, but also for mortall sins? Is not this your sup­posed easinesse in fulfilling the Law, the next way to make Purgatorie of no vse?

Doubtlesse Pag. 10. the iustest man falleth seauen times a day: Who can say that his heart is pure from vaine and impertinent thoughts? His tongue cleane from idle and vnprofitable speech? His handes not defiled at least with emissions in Gods seruice? Doe you see your iust can­not be in this life without dust?

Modo ais, modo negas. What is now become of your Ladder with the steps, whereof your Ca­tholique feet are so inured? Is all come to this, that the iust are but dust? Haue the iustest some drosse to be purged? then if euer you meane to get into Heauen, you must climbe by another Ladder: by the merit and mediation of that sweet-smelling Sacrifice, with­out which we can neuer (through our owne legall o­bedience) be aduanced into the presence of God.

The Doctor may doe well when hee pre­sents my Master with the next Pref. Purgatiue Sallet, to adde these two Ingredients, which are farre better then his Pag. 129 Ladies gloues; I meane the hearbe of grace, and the flower of Iesse: Hee that feedeth well vpon these shall not stand in need of any other Purgation; hee shall bee throughly cleane.

Though wee dare not hold Iustification by the Law, yet doe we not denie the laudable and ne­cessarie vse thereof: being not only Speculum, A Loo­king Glasse to dresse our liues by; but also Spiculum, A Piercing Dart, to let out the wilde bloud of self-con­ceit. Notwithstanding, to disrobe God of his mer­cie, [Page 187] and Christ of his merit, by attributing that to the Law which belongeth to S [...] Christ S [...]a Christ. him, that is the end of the Law, we can finde no reason, vnlesse we would wilfully hinder the Euangelicall progresse of our sal­uation, by labouring to be found in our owne righte­ousnesse.

Saint Paul speaking of the former and present estate of his Corinthians, tels them how they came to bee washed, sanctified, and iustified: viz., not by the workes which they had done, but by the name of the Lord Iesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Thus Pag. 110.111. doth the Knight alleadge Scriptures for his purpose; Hee talkes of washing and cleansing, yet had his lippes still neede to bee purged, which hee seldome wettes (I feare) in the bath of teares and pennance.

What! more Phylacteries! Haue you de­serued such trust as to bee made of his Counsaile? Our Sauiour hath taught him to shut his Chamber doores, against such vain-glorious spies, when he ad­dresseth himselfe to his pious deuotions. His teares are laid vp in a bottle, that is not so full of leakes. Ple­nus rimarumes, [...]àc & illàc diffluis.

Is hee Pag. 111 not skilfull at Scriptures, who applieth that sentence which was spoken of grosse sinnes, as whordome, theft, extortion, and the like, which the Corin­thians before baptisme committed, and from which by bap­tisme they were cleansed, to the daily veniall offences, with­out which the iust man doth not liue.

Vnlesse I haue forgotten my Logick the ar­gument followes affirmatiuely, from the greater to the lesse. If by his bloud our grosse sinnes are purged, [Page 188] then much more by it alone, must those that are ve­niall be cleansed. The bloud of Christ (sayth Saint Iohn) cleanseth vs, ab omni peccato, from all sinne, of what nature, condition or degree soeuer. Neither doth Saint Paul say, that Lett. pag. 85. faith is the ground of those things, that are to be suffered by our selues; but of thinges to be hoped for from Christ.

I perceiue your Pag 111. Protestant faith is verie weake, we must not lay anie great burthen on it, of thinges to bee suffered by your selues, lest it breake; but of thinges to be suffered by others, as much as wee will; You can easily endure that others suffer, so you bee well your selues. I doe not now wonder you haue reiected Fastings, Pilgrimages, Disciplines, Haire-cloathes, Lying on the ground, Rising in the night, Liuing in perpetuall Chastitie, wrestling with the lusts of the flesh; Your faith is not a ground of pen­nance, nor of any mortifications, to be vndergone by your selues.

Our Protestant faith needeth not your su­perstitious supporters, which bend in the hammes, as altogether vnable to beare the massie weight of the least sinne. Scio cui credidi, was Saint Pauls anchor, which staied him amidst the most tempestuous stormes; he desired to know nothing but Christ Iesus and him crucified. Wee content our selues with his wisdome, and build vpon his ground. Wee holde it the most beneficiall Pilgrimage, for a man to trauaile out of the confidence, and loue of himselfe: the best Haire-cloath, is the meditation of his sufferings; the best Chastitie is, not to defile our soules with spiri­tuall fornications, nor our bodies with lawlesse lusts. [Page 189] Though we hold it a necessary fruit of our Faith, to be zealous in the continual practise of prayer, fasting, Discipline, and other goood works, yet doth Christi­an humility teach vs, not to vant of them; and their insufficiency forbids vs, to repose any trust in them. For 1. Tim. 4.6. bodily exercise profiteth nothing: The Abac. 2.4. iust man liueth by his owne faith.

Christ must Pag. 111.122 suffer all for you: you will not be partners with him in his passion, yet you will share with him in his comforts; You will not by your good will, haue your finger ake for his loue, nor taste the least drop of vine­ger to purge your sinnefull humors, yet will you be as bolde as any other, except his Iustice keepe you back, to put your nose into the sweete cuppe of his glory.

Were our resolution no better, then your charitable opinion, it were indeed no small em­peachement to the solidity of our faith. But the Re­cordes of our Iudiciall Courtes, are able to silence your vnmannerly Metaphor. Your botle nose hangs so in your light, that you cannot see the num­berlesse names of those our glorious Martyrs, who were ready not only to be bound, but to suffer the most dreadfull torments, that tyranny and heresie could inuent, for the faith of Christ, and testimony of a good conscience. They kissed the stake, and embra­ced the flames, whereby they were made conforma­ble to the sufferings of our Sauiour; Neither doe I doubt but the same faith would (if occasion so re­quired) still shewe it selfe by the like effects.

True faith is a Ibid. ground not only of hope, but also of feare. As it teacheth vs to expect a full rewarde, if we [Page 190] fullfill gods Commanndements; So likewise to be sure of heauy punishments, if we contemne them.

If you speake of a seruile feare, in regarde of heauy punishments, faith leaueth that to the Lawe, which is the Minister of death. But admitt you meane a filiall seare, though it arise from faith, yet is it as a consequent of hope, from which it is necessarily deriued.

Faith is Ibid. defined the ground of things to be ho­ped for, not of things to be suffered by vs, or of things suf­fered by Christ: because Christes sufferings for vs, and ours in loue and imitation of him, are but meanes to con­duct vs to God, the blessed end hope aymeth at.

I thinke it would trouble Aquinas him­selfe to distill the Quintessence of congruity, from this sentence. First, you confesse that for which wee we haue so long contended: that faith is not the ground of things suffered by Lachrymas Petri lego, satis­factionem non lego. vs. Secondly, you displace Christs sufferings; and why? because they, in loue and imitation of him, are but meanes to conduct vs vnto God. Me-thinks you speake very improperly, con­founding the obiect & the effect. I would you would be your owne Oedipus.

Hope and Pag. 112. Faith being Theologicall vertues, haue for their obiects not Christs sufferings, nor our owne, but God alone; Other things faith and hope doth regard only, as they are pertinent to God.

If you speake of the Ia. 2.19. Deuills faith, then in­deed God alone is the obiect: but if you keepe your selfe to the faith of the Elect, (now questioned) then is Christ Crucified the immediate obiect, and God is [Page 191] the end. Are wee not saued by faith in his bloud? Can we come vnto the Father, but by the Sonne? Hee is the brazen serpent, which the eye of Faith doth prin­cipally behold.

My Pag. 112 answeres I feare are too graue, both for your head and faith: neither will the one vnderstand, nor the other belieue my discourse. I labour in vaine either to build pennance or Purgatory on your faith, or to beat true lear­ning and diuinity into your head.

Nemo suae fortunae faber. We must content our selues with that measure of vnderstanding, which the great Giuer of his vndeserued Talents, hath im­parted vnto vs. It it is sufficient we conceiue how im­properly you speake, and how idely you discourse. Is the Lett. pag. 86 Summer liuery of euerlasting life giuen vnto vs, with this Prouiso, that vnlesse wee play the Taylors our selues, and make it vp by our Purgations, it must neuer come on our backes?

Much doe you Pa. 113 feare I see, least you be forced to play the Taylor with a Discipline, to pleasure therewith your shoulders: and out of the broad-cloath of Christs me­rits, with that sharpe paire of sheeres, to cut out a Purgato­ry garment for your owne backe.

No doubt you would proue a good Spinster, so well doe you lengthen the course threed of this homely Allegorie. The whirle of your wheeling wit casts about beyond admiration.

S. Paul Ibid. was such a Taylor▪ he did not beat the aire, but chastice his body, still carried about with him the mortifications of Iesus Christ; to which participation with Christ in paine he may seeme to exhort, when hee bids vs [Page 192] feele the same in our selues, that wee see in Christ Iesus; who subiected himselfe to the death of the Crosse.

He had (as he saith) the markes of his passion in his flesh, yet was hee not thereby iustified. It is true that one speakes of the penitent theefe: Non promi­sit Paradisum nisi existenti in cruce. Hee promised not Paradise to any but to his Crosse-companion. Yet not­withstanding the torments he there endured, he was faine to come to Domine memento mei. Vnlesse Christ had beene mercifull vnto him, his passion had sor­ted to no better effect, then his fellowes did. So that albeit there be necessarily required a Conformity to his death, (at least by Seminemus hominibus ex­emplum bonum peraperta opera: Seminemus An­gelis gaudium magnum per oc­culla sufpiria. Ber. de benedict. penitentiall workes) which all true Christians ought willingly to vndergoe, yet is it to bee performed as an homage, (the reward whereof shal not through the riches of his abundant grace bee vnrequited) not as a satisfaction to make the least part of attonement, for the least sin; which being against an infinite maiesty, cannot be expiated by anie finite punishment.

I assure Pag 113.114 you that a discipline or a whipping for a quarter of an houre, would make you conceiue more deepely of Christs bitter passion, then euer did any Protestants Ser­mon you heard.

Had my Master knowne your mind, that you loue whipping so well, hee would haue saued you a labour. You should not haue needed to tra­uell so farre as Doway for a ierking; I dare vnder­take he would haue taken order, that the Bedles of Bridewell should haue tawed your hide to the quicke, farre better then any vizarded Substitute, whome [Page 193] your Lay-Catholiques vse to hire, to lash himselfe be­fore the Congregation in their stead.

Had he Ibid. tasted any drop of the sweetnes of Christ crucified, he would neuer haue said, reioycing in his compe­tent patrimony, Ditescit cui Christus dulcescit: he becom­meth rich, to whom Christ crucified becommeth sweet.

Now you cauill against the haire. The com­petency of his patrimony moued him (as hee saith) to seek rather his contentatiō by Theologicall studies, then his profit by the pursuit of politicke affaires. Now lest you shold obiect, that many men are born to greater fortunes of the world then himselfe, hee margents thus, that hee hath riches enough who tasteth the sweetnesse of Christ; a­gainst which saying (no lesse pithy in sence then plea­sant in the originall sound) there is no curre, (vnlesse he came of an Atheisticall litter) would dare to barke.

Many Ibid. born to greater fortuns of the world then he is, voluntarily made themselues so poore, that their only de­meanes was a wildernes, their pallace a hole vnder ground, their meat fasting, their attire contemptible, their musicke praier, their bed the bare groūd, which life they did prefer before being kings in the world: such was the sweetnes they found in Christ crucified: such ioy they had to feele in them­selues some little portion of that paine they beheld in him.

And haue you learned your Cinque à pace? your phrase treads the measures notably well. Legibꝰ nō ▪ exemplis Non minor est virtus quam quarere parti tue [...]i. viuendū. What warrant they had to de­priue thēselues of the means of doing good, or what accōpt they could make vnto him, who trusted them with so many talents, which they committed to the managemēt of others, we wil not debate. My answer is this. [Page 194] When the Pope imitates his Predecessors, leauing his Palace for a Caue, his Cope for a skinne, his Triple crowne for a Cap of wool, then will my Master fol­low these Presidents, and leaue Iabal to be his stew­ard. In the meane Res mihi non me rebus sub­mittere conor. season, as he abounds not in de­licacie, so will hee not hoord or misimploy his su­perfluitie.

They did not Pag. 115. doubt, but the garment of glory, out of the broad-cloth of Christs merits, was to be greater or lesser, according as they had more or lesse conformitie with the crucified Sonne of God; Neither did they beleeue that God giues it to vs ready made to our hands, but that those momentary and light sufferings worke in vs eternall weight of glory.

And great reason they should beleeue the last clause: for euery man shall receiue according to his workes. The more good we doe, the more glory, im­mortality, and peace shall wee receiue. But that the garment of Christs sufferings is giuen vs ready made, there was neuer any doubt made by anie duly con­siderate Christian. That Oblation beeing made once for all, can neither bee augmented nor dimini­shed, in regard of it selfe, though in regard of vs, the benefit is either more or lesse, as we beleeue and ex­presse the vertue of our faith, by the mortification of the flesh, and holie conuersation of life. His War­drope affoords euery beleeuer a complete robe of righteousnes; he that will not take the paines to fit it to his soule, is not worthy to weare it. As we grow in grace, the warmth of this garment increaseth; The neerer we come to his sufferings, the greater shall [Page 195] we be in his glory, not that wee deserue the least de­gree, but because it hath Coronat nos Deus in miseri­cordia et com­miserationibus. Psal. 103. v. 4. pleased him, for the kind­ling of our frozen zeale, to propound the greatest prize to the best runner: for so saith S. Paul. Rom. 9.16. Nec volentis nec currentis. It is neither in him that willeth, nor in him that runneth.

I feare the Knight Pag. 116. playes not the Taylor aright, but cuts out of the Scripture fauourable sentences for him­selfe as this is: Blessed are those that dye in the Lord, that do concerne others, whose liues do not much sute with Interdum vulgus recte vi­det, est vbi pec­cat. Horace. Di­ues daily banquetting, as his seemeth to doe. Let him take heed he find not a garment of another suite set on his back, when his Soule shall depart, more naked of good deedes out of the body, then his body of Garments vnto the Graue.

My Master is beholding to you for your ex­traordinarie care. But if he haue not in all this time learned to play the Tayler aright, by my consent hee shall not be bound Prentize to such a Botcher, who cannot teach him to thred his needle aright. When you fall once to trifling, I perceiue your Vessell runs low; Purgatorie is out at the elbowes.

I would gladlie heare how you answere the Knights arguments. Hee disputes in this manner. Lett. pag. 81.82. The Soules in Purgatory are either punished for those sins, which Christs bloud hath wholly purged, or for those which he hath not wholly purged. If for those which Christ hath wholly purged, then there must needs be iniustice in God to imprison them whose debts are fully discharged. If for sinnes that hee hath not wholly purged, then it followeth, either that he is not the Lambe that taketh a­way [Page 196] the sins of the world; or that mans satisfaction must goe hand in hand with Christs merits.

He buts Pag 117 against Purgatories walls with his hor­ned arguments, which if it haue any force against Purgato­ry, will also breake open the gates of hell, that the damned may come out. For what debts are they kept in prisons Doubtlesse for those for which Christ did offer his pretious bloud; which was a sufficient redemption for the sinnes of the world. Is God then vniust to imprison them in the darke Dungeon for euer, for whose sinnes Christ paid a full and rigorous ransome?

Hath not this Dilemma brought you to a sore plunge? If you come vpon either side, you are sure to bee gored; wherefore to get out of the reach of both, you are faine to creepe downe to hell for an answere. And what is your purchase? The death of Christ, though it is sufficient for all, ex a­bundantia meriti: yet is it not sufficient to saue all, ex defectu fidei, by reason of the want of Faith; whereby that his sufficiencie of merit, is particularlie to be ap­plied. What is this to those that are in Christ, who die in the Lord?

It is Christs Pa. 118. holy will that in sins committed after Baptisme, the whole guilt of pain bee not euer forgiuen, but somtimes he reserueth a cōuenient task of temporal paine.

This you speak confidently: could you proue it as soundly, the day were yours. If temporall paines be reserued, how is the sin wholly forgiuen? Dare you say that God, who is perfection it selfe, performeth the workes of his mercy (which surpasse all the rest) by halfes? Are mortall sinnes with their punish­ments [Page 197] wholly remitted, and must the greatest part of those that are veniall be reserued? The cause being taken away, the effect ceaseth. If the paine of mortall sinnes be remitted, then much more the penaltie of veniall slips.

We daily Pag. 119. see and feele that punishments and pe­nalties may remaine though the sinne bee forgiuen. What are death, hunger, thirst, and other miseries of this life, but effects of originall Sinne? Is not sinne forgiuen vnto Christians in Baptisme? Yet those that are baptized endure the former penalties. God pardo­ned DAVIDS sinne: but did all temporall punish­ment cease together with the sinne? The sinne was remitted with a, But thou shalt endure these and these afflictions, because thou hast made the name of God to bee blasphemed.

These are not properly punishments pro­ceeding from seueritie, but Chastisements sauouring of mercie: for punishments haue respect vnto a person obnoxious to the Law, and to a Iudge not satisfied for the breach of the Law; But these are rather the effects of corrupt nature, then the Tribulatio pio­rum non tam af­flictiua, quam a­moris diuini de­claratiua, virtu­tis promotiua, & culpae futurae cohibitiua. Aqui. punishments of the persons regenerate. Otherwise you must confesse that the Blessed Virgin, because shee died a naturall death, was thereby punished for her origi­nal sin; which you wil not easily be drawne to admit. Were the Childe of God perfectly sanctified, as soone as hee is justified, then were your objection to some purpose: but you must know that not­withstanding Sinne bee remitted, yet Concupis­cence still remaineth; for the mortifying whereof [Page 198] these Chastisements are sent. As it standeth with the wisedome Omnia coope­rantur in bo­num. of God, to beat downe this rebellious Law of our members: So is it disagreable to his iu­stice to Ezek. 18.33. remember anie more the sinnes of the re­pentant; yea such is his goodnesse, that hee repen­teth him of the euill, that hee had intended: So far is he from punishing that Sinne, which he hath for­merly remitted. Neyther indeede is there anie pro­portion betweene temporall punishment, and the sinne that is committed against an infinite Majestie. As for that Chastisement which followed Dauids absolution, it happened, (sayth Saint Augustine) vt pietas hominis in illa humilitate exerceretur: not that he might be Imponit nobis poenam, non de peccato sumens supplicium, sed ad futura nos corrigens. Chrysost. Hom. de Poen. punished, but that his godlinesse might bee thereby proued. It was not inconuenient, that the Childe should die, both in respect of Dauid, that his watchfulnesse against the like sinne might bee increa­sed, and others admonished: as also in regard of those that were without, that their mouthes might be stopped, from blaspheming the justice of God.

I will not Pag. 119 stand to conuince you out of Scriptures, nor out of Fathers, only because the Knight stands vpon Athanasius, whom he calls his Arbitrator, and sayes that he will not affoord vs one sillable to saue our liues: his igno­rance shall receiue doome by his sentence, euen in that verie Treatise. Thus he writeth. There is great difference betwixt Pennance and Baptisme: he that repenteth ceaseth to sinne, but still retaineth the Ergo, opera poenitentialia non sunt satisfa­ctoria. skars of his wound; but he that is baptized, putteth off the old man, is then renewed from hea­uen, and as it were borne againe, by the Spirit of grace. Doe you see how manie sillables this Father lendeth vs?

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They wil scarce make a number. I see not so much as a Cipher, that can stand in your account. He neyther nameth Purgatorie nor anie temporall punishment, after the remission of the guilt of sinne. Nay he rather seemeth to dash these conceits against the wall. For if a man baptized bee renewed from Heauen, and retaine no skarres, then the plaister of Purgatorie may be cast out vpon the dung-hill, as of no vse to those, that continually make their repaire, by a thirsting faith, to those waters of comfort. Ob­serue I pray you how strangely you goe to worke. You haue made a great shew of exhorting vs vnto pennance, and now you bring in Athanasius affir­ming, that he that repenteth, still retaineth the skars of his wound. Time was when you could say, In this Pag. 115 penall Martyrdome, (namely the perpetuall victorie of our selues) if you continue vnto death in the true Ca­tholike Church, I dare warrant you both from Hell and Purgatorie, and grant you an immediate passage vnto Heauen. How comes it now to passe, that notwith­standing this penall Martyrdome, there are skars and woundes still remaining? May we be admitted to passe into Heauen immediately, without these eye-sores in our soules? You should rather for the effectuating of your purpose, haue produced Saint Lib. de poeni. Augustines Panigyrick, Poenitentia langueres sanat, Leprosos curat, Mortuos suscitat. Or that of De Laud. poen. Cum homo com­pungitur Pecca­tum dispungitur. Cyprian: O poenitentia quid de te noui referam. Omnia ligata tu soluis: Omnia clausa tu reseras: Omnia contrita tusanas: Omnia confu­sa tu lucidas, &c. You speake of the Skars verie vnsea­sonably in my mind.

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These Holy Fathers may be easily recon­ciled. Athanasius speakes of Pennance solely consi­dered in it selfe, according to the worke wrought: and in this sence, though a man giue his bodie to bee burned, to satisfie for the sinne of his soule, the skar of his sinne still remaineth. The other two speake of Penance, not as it is opposed to Baptisme, but as it is conjoyned and made operatiue by the vertue there­of; from whence the life and vigour of repentance is deriued. So that Athanasius saies well, that vnlesse a man be renewed from Heauen, and bee borne againe by the Spirit of grace, his pennance how great soeuer, cannot doe awaie the skarres of his wound.

I see not Pag. 120 what else can bee imagined to re­maine after pennance, and not after Baptisme, besides the guilt of temporall paine, which wee must willingly vnder­goe, to satisfie for the sinnes after Baptisme: which skars and wounds, if we heale not in this life by plaisters of pen­nance, they must bee scared in the next by Purgatorie fire.

Then must you bee sure to haue a turne in torrida Zona; for Athanasius tels you, that notwith­standing your penance, you must stil retaine the skarres of your wounds. Your better waie were to flie to the waters of Iordan, where you shall bee sure to haue your leprosie fully cured, then to trust to your owne penall satisfactions. Now (if you loue mee) meddle no more with my Masters Arbitrator; if you doe, your Combe will be soone cut.

Tis wel he wil now at length confesse that the guilt of temporall paine remaineth not after Baptisme. It is [Page 201] not a quarter of an houre, since he was of a contrarie minde. Then Pag. 119 death, hunger, thirst, and other mise­ries, were the penalties of originall sinne, forgiuen vnto Christians in Baptisme. Now he Pag. 120 sees not what else can bee imagined to remaine after pennance, and not after Baptisme, besides the guilt of temporal pain. But that the day weares away, I would bee bold to aske him this question: whether the vertue of Baptisme be not as great, throughout the whole life of a Christian, as it is at that moment, when it is administred? I will not so much vnder-value his sinceritie, as to feare his de­niall. I dare say hee will not make the Sacrament of Regeneration lesse beneficiall vnto vs, then the Mo­ther Earth was vnto her Sonne Antaeus. As oft as hee in the conflict with Hercules touched the earth, his strength was renewed; and as oft as wee bath our Soules in those medicinable waters by a Religious application of the bloud of Christ, we are assured of the remission of our sinnes, as well as if wee were at the instant baptized, in that purifying Lauer. So that the guilt of temporall paine doth no more remaine, after the pious application, then it did after the first initiation; Christ and his ordinances being the same, Yesterday, to day, and for euer. The cause taken away, the effect ceaseth.

This your Ibid. Logicall Axiome faileth in a thou­sand examples. The Sonne is an effect of the Causasociata. Father: Cannot hee liue though his Father bee dead? The fire causeth heat, yet we see that heat doth remaine long time after the fire is put out. That Principle is only true, when not only the first being of the effect dependeth on the cause [Page 202] but also the conseruation thereof: as the light of the Sunne, which the Sunne doth not only bring forth, but also con­serue, vanisheth away together with the same.

As I am a true Aristotelian, I heard him not speake so wise a word this day: The Sonne who is an effect of the Father may liue, Quatenus homo non qua­tenus filius. though his Father bee dead. And yet in these dayes, filius pendet à patre in esse & conseruari; or else they would goe for the most part in thred▪bare coates.

Wee doubt not but the Axiome admits many exceptions, by reason of the diuers properties of causes, some being efficient, some materiall, some formall, and some finall. Amongst Efficients, some per­manent, some transient, some principall, some instru­mentall, some conseruant &c. Yet must you not wind away with your Sophistrie: There is a certaine Cause called, Causa solitaria proxima adaequata, of which sort is Sinne, in regard of punishment; for if the question be why man is punished, it cannot possibly but bee conceiued, that it is Ideo multi in­firmi, &c- 1. Cor. 11.30 Miseros facit homines pecca­tum. Pro. 14.34. vir pro peccato suo. Thren. 3. v. 39. because man hath offended, or else if the punishment be without cause, it should be without justice.

Punishment indeed Pag. 120 is the effect of sinne: no­thing but sinne could produce that guilt in our soule; yet when it is once in the soule, the conseruation dependeth on the will of God. It cannot cease, but when, and in what manner he will haue it cease.

Vnius Zabardib. de med. dem. effectus non est nisi vna causa proxima. When you proue that it is the will of God to re­serue some part of the penaltie, after the remission of sinne, then will we confesse your Axiome. But take [Page 203] heed, least while you coyne a new Will, you deface his olde Iustice, which was euer consonant to his truth. Whensoeuer he said, fides tua te saluum fecit, the bed was presently taken vp. Sinne no more least a worse thing befall thee, shewes there was no feare of smart for the former sinne. The impulsiue Cause being remoued, the effect ceased; for God comes not with anie willing desire, but as it were by compulsi­on to inflict punishment vpon the Modell of his owne Image, which hee hath repaired at so high a price. We denie not but his Pag. 121.122 wisedome hath thought it fit, (in regard of the succession of our daily sinnes) for his honour, and our profit, to enable vs to doe some part of penance our selues, by the helpe of his grace: that so we might conceiue more deeply the malice of sinne, and Gods hatred against it; as also that wee might more care­fully for the time to come auoid Sinne. But that God should require the debt, which hee hath formerly cancelled: or that mans greatest pennance can satisfie his Iustice, for the least transgression, wee desire fur­ther reason to beleeue.

The question is not touching penance for the procuring of pardon for sinnes not remitted, but whether it sort most with Gods will, for his owne glorie and our profit, that wee should be tormented with Purgatorie flames, or bee freely and absolutely deliuered. It cannot be more for our behoofe, see­ing the soules departed are not in via, to receiue anie merit by their sufferings: Neyther can it sute so wel with his grace, (vpon which his glorie is especially reared) seeing that the more remission is scanted, [Page 204] the more is the lustre of his abundant grace lessened. Wherfore it is no lesse then extreme folly, to dreame of more meanes of expiation, when fewer (yea the Non deficit in [...]cessar [...]s nec a­bun [...]at in super­fluis. alone passion of Christ) will Aeque bene. altogether as well serue the turne.

If there be such necessitie of Purgatorie, mee thinkes you should agree vpon the place; whether it bee vnder the Earth, or in the Ayre. Pag. 125. Quod vbi­que nullibi. It is in so manie places that indeede it is in no place.

This is the Knights Pag. 125.126 onset by which hee seekes to beat Purgatorie out of the World. But the Captaine Maior of his argument, if it bee true, is able to beate God into nothing, who cannot be conceiued without Immensi­tie, or a being euery where. But taking your Proposition in the best sence, to wit, that the thing might bee iustly thought not to bee, which learned men cannot tell cer­tainly and determinately where it is, yet is the impietie thereof exceeding great. Doe not Diuines disagree about the place of the Soule, after separation from the bodie? About the part of the world where God sheweth himselfe to his Saints? May one thence inferre, Quod vbique nulli­bi? Doe not learned Christians likewise dissent about the Situation of Hell?

You might haue well annexed to your in­ference, Asse for example: Primus motor was euer exempt from the Confines both of Praedicaments, and Phisicall Axiomes. You should haue done well to haue giuen vs some sublunarie instance, then would we haue applauded your wit. The meanest Gram­mar-Schollar hath, Enter presenter Deus hic & vbi­que [Page 205] potenter, at his fingers ends.

As for Hell, though Learned men exactly know not the site thereof, yet doth the word of God plainly teach, that there is a Hell, and in some sort it shadoweth the torments thereof; so that wee are tied to a necessitie of beleefe. Neyther are Learned men so much to studie where it is, as to take heede they come not there. But as for Purgatorie, it is neyther auerred nor described in the Mappe of Gods word, wherefore we haue reason to suspect the being thereof: and the rather, because the first Founders could not agree where to seat the foundation of it. Must God therefore be beaten into nothing, if a man say that fained Purgatorie is no where? Take heed least from a Papist, you turne Atheist. Such examples sauour of little Religion, and lesse feare of GOD. I hope wee may boldly saie it is nullibi, when the Scripture concludes it to bee nus quam.

Such Atheisticall inferences may chance make him feele where Hell is, ere he be aware. If hee will follow my counsell, hee shall either get some Ellebore to purge his braines, or a warme night-cap to keepe in his wits.

The Knight puts him a question touching the Lett. pag. 50 middle rancke of offenders, who shall suruiue at the comming of Christ, when Purgatorie shall bee cleane extinct; whether they shall bee saued without fur­ther Purgation? Which if hee grant, then must hee admit partiality in the Iudge, in affoording them more fauour, then those who daily depart this life. If hee denie [Page 206] it, then must hee taxe the Lord of vniustice in denying the meanes of purgation vnto them, which hee hath al­wayes affoorded to those of their rancke. But the Do­ctor hath no great mawe to touch eyther of these hornes.

Well, wee had neede of a Saepe etiam est olitor verba op­portuna locutus. Moderator to close this act. I trust hee will make vs amendes for his drie, melancholy, and liuelesse discourse, with more pleasant and delightfull passages, in the main­tenance of his grand Miracles, from which Purgato­rie hath had her best patronage. The Sunne will leaue vs, and therefore Doctor, if you meane wee should see you open the budget of your iugling feats, you must be nimble-handed; wee haue reason looke at last for a fit of mirth.

CHAP. V Lipsian Miracles morterized.

NO where Pag. 127 doth the Knight shew his prophanenesse more, then in scoffing at the Miracles of our bles­sed Ladie of Hall registred by Lip­sius, which hee derides in sorude a manner, as it may well seeme he did both read Lipsius his storie, and write his owne Letter, rosting Crabs by the fire side.

Had not your lippes hung in your light, you might haue easilie discerned the difference, which he [Page 207] putteth between the counterfeit Image, & the glorious person of our blessed Lady. If you meane to make good your iniurious censure, you must take some paines to resolue the Christian worlde, (which you seeke to delude with these miracles) how the same blessed Virgin can bee simul et semel, at one and the same time, at Hall, at Sichem, and in Heauen. One bo­dy cannot bee at one time in more places then one. Some of your Church (I confesse) hold the contra­ry of Christs body; but who euer (sauing your selfe) thought so of the body of the blessed Virgin?

I haue heard that the Ladie at Hall hath a sharper nose, a thinner lippe, and a quicker eye, then she that is worshipped at Sichem: who is much broa­der visaged, and more corpulent then the other; tra­uellers will hardly beleeue they are sisters, so vnlike is their feature. Is it possible for one bodie to bee so vnlike it selfe? you must first agree which of them is our Ladie, and then the other shall bee euer after held as her waiting-woman, which will be no dispa­ragement at all. Vnlesse you haue authority from the Pope to dubbe as many Ladies as you list, it is but follie to say they are Ladies both; this pattent if you could shew, O how welcome a man would you bee to our Chamber-Necessaries. All the prettie Lasses would flocke to Doctor Iabal, yet for your life should you not giue them all content. Madam Susan would pout, that my Ladie Winifred must take the wall. Shee hopeth shee hath Pag. 136 stopt as many mu­stard-pots, as her Ladiship for her heart. Here would be old reuel-rowt.

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Such prophanenes Pag. 116. and want of religion doth the Knight shew in his perpetuall iesting at Miracles, which confirme any point of religion, especially this of Purgatory, which he termeth such graue Miracles, that it would make a horse breake his halter to see them: and in the margent he saies, Yea Bellarmines deuout Mare; which his wanton Hobby named onely to beget a foole on her.

Now is your wit falne within the Circum­ference of my Element. In all your runnagate tra­uels, knew you euer a Hobby to begette a foale on a Mare? and yet I must say it is more probable, then that your Phoenix Garnet should begette a face on a Straw.

If Bellarmines deuout Mare did euer carrie a foole, it was (as your owne stories reporte) vnto the Masse.

He Ibid. might better haue turned his Hobby loose to Balaams Prudent Asse, where perchance hee might haue learned this point of wisedome, that there is a God whome euen bruit beasts feele, and in their manner serue and a­dore, who is able when he pleaseth to make them bray more wisely then you doe speake.

It seemes you haue some commaund ouer the sillie creature which you so willinglie name. You may do well seeing his Master is dead, to lead him to Rome. I know no Prelate fitter to ride him then your Pope. Sure I am there doth none more often curse Gods people then he.

I see no reason why one may not as well say, that the sight of your Miracles would make a horse breake his halter, as that Pag. 137. Iohn Clement brake [Page 209] his doublet in peeces by a Miracle.

Lipsius doth Pag. 127. elegantly and religiously relate a miracle, concerning a Falconer deliuered from death, by the Lady of Hall her mercifull intercession; which the Knight or his Minister doth marre with reeling and let­tering phrases. His [...]g. 102 Lord swore by no beggars that hee would make him looke through a halter, if hee found not the Falcon, &c. Thus doth hee play the Summist of Lipsius.

That hee wrote elegantlie no man denies; the question is, whether his wit might not haue been better imployed then in playing the Scummist of O­uids Metamorphosis. It was your cunning in a despe­rate cause to abuse his eloquence, to the bombasting of your forged and incredible fopperies. Were it not more for the quaintnesse of his stile, then the trueth of his Miracles, his leaues would bee soone turned to the Glouers disposing.

It was a heauie iudgement of God vppon him for his Apostacie, that in his old age he should put his pen to sale, and prostitute the beautie of his wit, to the boulstring of such idolatrous and Com­mentitious trumperies.

Yet I Pag. 128. wonder the Knight omitted a story which followed in the same Chapter with Iohn Swickius, to wit, about another Protestant Swaggerer Iohn Rysselman, who reuiling that blessed Lady, swering that hee would take her towne and burne her picture, publiquely in Bruxells stro­ken with a Bullet, lost the best tongue in his head, the best chinne in his face; and not long after yeelded vp (though a bad one) yet the best soule in his body.

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You say right, they are both birds of a Crimine ab vno disce omnes. fea­ther, and therefore deserue to flye together: but the truth is, one haire is too much in a pen; though Lip­sius was so regardlesse of his credit, as to adde the full period to that Chaos of vntruths, yet was my Ma­sters penne so bashfull, that it was hardlie drawne so much as to mention th'one, so farre was he from re­lating the other; especiallie at the second hand. He that will venture vpon a lye shall shew little witte, vnlesse he be the prime inuentor; the first Author may gaine some of that credit, by the quaintnesse of his inuention, which he loseth by the incredibilitie of his fabulous assertion. It stood with Lipsius his po­licie to ballance his fictions, that so they might seeme to carry the euen waight of truth. Had not Rysselman beene put in the other scale, Swickius his miracle had gone to the ground.

Why may not this miracle of Risselman bee as true, as that of our Ladie at Lucca in Italie? There was a wittie Ladde that had lost all his Counters at Mum chance, & hauing no meanes to renue his stock, he bethought himselfe of this stratagem: He goes out into the backside, & as if hee had bin one of the forlorn hope throws his dice in the face of our Ladies Image that stood there in the Towne-wall; immedi­ately by a nimble slight which he had formerly got­ten, he wreathes his arme backward, & comes in all a mort, as if he had lost the vse of his best cheating in­strument. After some few daies he returnes, as one that had beene stricken with remorse, and prayeth before the Lady (you must imagine shee did winke [Page 211] for feare of the like cast) and loe; his arme was She was glad to be rid of [...]h dangerous mates in­stantly restored. The rumour heereof being blazed abroad as farre as Rome, Pope Clement the eighth takes order, to haue the image remooued (for this notable piece of seruice) into the Church. Will you heare what followed? This Iugler the first founder of this erection, was well greazed by those of the Church with the oyle of Argent, and slides a­way to the triall of other fortunes. But it was not long before his pictures had lost all their faces; his coyne was not so fraudulently gotten, but it was as riotously spent, whereupon being driuen to an exi­gent, he turnes Vltimum, sal­tem penultimum re [...]gium. tapster (I had almost said hangman) in an Inne at Poggio Bunchi, betweene Florence and Siena. As God would haue it, there came into that hostelry, certaine Sr. Tho. Chal­loner. Mr. Tho. Aw [...]ley. noble Countrey men of ours, when my new fill-pot was more then halfe-seas o­uer: being then in his iollity, he breaks out (amongst other panigyricall narrations of his quick-siluer wit) to tel with what lucky successe he had gulled the in­habitants of Lucca, and how much our Ladies image was beholding vnto him, for her warme winter stan­ding; which made the Gentlemen so much mirth, that for that time they thought they might well spare the fidlers company.

Well fare your heart; you haue now payd him interest enough for the forbearance of Rys­selman; story, which is no way comparable to this.

Is it not a wondrous Apud vete­res miracula pro monsiris atque [...]orreadis su­muntur. Donat. miracle that Ryssel­man a Souldier, should be shot through the cheekes with a bullet in a skirmish? forsooth it was for swag­gering [Page 212] with the wooden Image of our Lady. I had thought the blessed Virgin had long agoe learned this lesson of her sonne: to forgiue her enemies; to pray for them that reuile her; and not to shoot bullets through their cheekes; to cut out their tongues; and strike off their noses. If this relation be true, your La­dy of Hall is a hard-hearted Saint. Had the Caruer so little choice, that he must needs make her of such a knotty peece? Did not Lipsius a good daies worke thinke you, when he thus stained her reputation? we tooke her all this while for a kind wench, good at a dead lift. I am verily perswaded your Historian did more harme to that Saint with his penne, then the Image did to Risselmans nose with the shot. If you tell vs whether the Image were Master Gunner, or the Gun­ners Mate, vnder whose Colors, and in what rank it did serue, wee will giue way for feare of a bloudie nose.

I much Pag. 128 doubt whether the aforenamed Ryssel­man, or that famous His heresie was more direct­ly against the personall & hy­postaticall vnion of her sonne, whose two na­tures he deuided Nestorius, an Arch-enemie of Gods mother, which both miraculouslie lost their tongues for blasphemy against her, did more deserue that penall forfeiture then the Knight hath done, who sticketh not to terme the glorious Queene of Angels, whose miracles Lipsius doth professe to write, the mother of God, as her picture with the King of the world in her armes doth wit­nesse, a kinde wench, good at a dead lift, which soundeth of a more foule blasphemy, then euer any heretique before dreamed of.

Wee beleeue that the blessed Virgin Mary is at rest in the kingdome of heauen: wee acknow­ledge [Page 213] her to bee the Mother of God; though no God­desse, nor Queene of Angels, yet a glorious Saint; though no Sauiour, nor Mediatrix, yet worthie of all loue, reuerence and imitation. Our soules with hers Luc. 1▪47 reioyce in God our Sauiour. But as for this liuelesse Image, wee know not whence it is. It may represent one of the Popes Concubines, for ought wee can say to the contrarie. Psal. 135.18 They that make them are like vnto them, and so are all they that put their trust in them.

As sure as we liue, Lipsius was not his crafts master; had he no stranger newes to tell vs, then that a Souldier lost his nose valiantly in the field, with an Instrument of warre? When all was done, the Image had as dull sent as he. If the truth were knowne, I beleeue there is manie a one in Hall, euen amongst the deuout Marianists, who hath lost the best ornament of his face in a worse quarrell, and in a more dishonourable seruice. If Rysselman had spo­ken in the nose, I shold haue liked it worse.

Mercifull Pag. 129 Lord in what a drunken age doe wee liue, that such foule blasphemies against Gods mother may passe to the print? that such witnessed testimonies of Gods infinite power (which had they beene done in Tirus and Sidon would perhaps haue ioyned them to haue done pen­nance in Sackcloath) may be blasphemed, derided, and re­iected, euen in print, as lewd lies, incredible falshoods, with­out anie sillable of proofe or reason in the World, but only because they list not to beleeue them.

You doe well to crie vnto the Lord for mercie, for were you well in your They were long since drowned in the red Sea at Claretto. wits, you would [Page 214] not dare to publish in print, that the woodden Idol of Hall is the blessed mother of God. Had you not a cuppe too much, you would not paralell Lipsius his lying fables with our Sauiours sacred Miracles. Had Simon Magus liued in Lipsius his dayes, it would haue bin a question, whether Simon Peter or he had beene the better man. Elimaes would haue beene a gay subiect for his Omnia commu­tat sise in mira­cula rerum. flying penne. I would aduise you to consider (if your considering Cap bee not at pawne) whether you doe not more dishonour the Blessed Virgin then the Iewes; they defie her, you deifie her. I will say vnto you as Salomon said vnto his Mother touching Adoniah. 1. Reg. 2.22 Why dost thou aske this for the Virgin? Aske for her the Kingdome also. The time will come, when you shall Apoc. 16.10 11. &c. 9.20 Abac. 2.19 gnaw your tongues for sorrow, who worshippe Idols of Golde, of siluer, of brasse, of stone, and of wood, which can neither see, heare, nor goe.

These miracles Pag. 129 which may seeme like the hearb called our Ladies gloues, adorne her Virginall hands, signes they are of her wedding to the eternall King, and of her being crowned Ier. 44.17 Queene of Heauen and Earth.

Her Virginal hands neuer taught Lipsius to strike that key, which makes the worshippe of God sound so much out of tune, euen in the eares of the Iewes. Hee is a verie simple Musician, that cannot make such Iackes as you skip, according to the mo­tion of his fingers. So hee make a sound, you care not how much he neglect the Chords of truth.

Lipsius whom you reuile was like the Swanne, whose dying notes are sweetest; Hee crowned his famous [Page 215] writings with a Historie of her miraculous stories, and hung vp before her Altar his renowned penne▪ the wing of his wit, the flight whereof made him Admiratio ab ignorantia des­cendit Donat. admirable in his age.

Had I beene his Herald, hee should haue borne a Lady cow for his Crest; It had beene a fit Em­bleme for a faire out-side. Though his pen made him admirable in his age, yet did his Dumque mo­ror mirorque si­mul fugit omnis in vndas. miraculous lies make him ridiculous in his dotage.

Then I see you meane not to die in Iabals debt for an Epigram. In lieu of his Ladies gloues you haue returned him a Cow, with two prettie Calues by her side. Lipsius will neuer bee dead as long as they liue.

Among manie Pag. 130 deuises the enemie of Man­kind hath set abroach in this age, to infect the world with Irreligion and Atheisme, none seemeth to mee more po­tent, then the deniall of miracles, together with those shifts which Heresie hath inuented, to discard those [Page 216] both of ancient & fresh memorie, which please not your tast.

That it doth so seeme vnto you, seemes not strange vnto vs, who doe assure our selues of your forwardnesse, in aduancing the state and dignitie of your grand Bel-peor. The point is, whether our Saui­our, his Apostles, and the Fathers of the Church held the deniall of your vpstart Lapsian miracles such a potent meanes, to infect the World with Atheisme and Irreligion? If you will bee tried by these, holde vp your Ecce purissimas meas manus Praeceptor, quoth the boy with the scab­bed fingers. hand? A match. Doth not Moses Deut. 13.2.6 forbid vs to judge of the Doctrine by miracles? Saith hee not that if any man shall giue vs a signe or a wonder which he told of should come to passe, yet we must not hearken vnto him, if he once say, Come and let vs goe serue o­ther Gods? The Ier. 23 Prophet complaines in the person of Almightie God, against these Miracle-mongers, Seduxerunt populum meum in mendacijs suis, & in mi­raculis suis. Our Sauiour Mat. 24. v. 23.24.25 forewarneth vs not to be­leeue such. For there shall arise false Christs, and false Prophets, and they shall shew great signes and wonders, in­somuch that if it were possible they shall deceiue the verie Elect. Saint 2. The. 2.9.10 Paul prophetically auerreth, that the comming of the man of sinne shall be after the wor­king of Sathan, with all powers and signes, and lying wonders: And with all deceiueablenesse of vnrighteous­nesse in them that perish, because they receiued not the loue of the truth that they might be saued. And that for this cause, God shall send strong Delusion, that they should beleeue a lie. What greater contrarietie can be imagined then there is betweene your position, and these textuall verities?

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The Ancient Fathers haue likewise ioyned their forces in the same Encounter. Doth not Saint In Mat. h [...]. 49 Chrysostome manacle these Quack-saluers for play­ing their Leger-de-main trickes? Per signacognosce­batur (saith hee) qui essent veri Christiani, qui falsi. Nunc autem signorum operatio omnino leuata est; magis autem inuenitur apud cos qui falsi sunt Christiani. Saint De Ciuit. Dei. lib. 22. cap. 8 Augustine makes a monster of him who doth now desire wonders, for the kindling of his faith, after so cleare a demonstration of Euangelicall miracles. Con­traistos Mirabiliarios (saith In Iohan. tract. 13. hee) cautum me fecit Deus meus. My God hath armed mee against such. To what end doth hee say, Behold I haue tolde you before, but that his Spouse should not be entrap'd with such Sophisticall miracle,? Yea, hee blasteth both Lipsius and his Shrine, with a Aug. de vnit. Eccles. cap. 19. Remoueantur, Away (saith hee) with this geare, Miracula fiut aliquaado hu­mana procura­tione, aliquando diabolica opera­tione. Al. Hale. Quast. 53. Art. 3 which is eyther the iugling of deceitfull men, or the Illusion of lying Deuils. It is in my opinion the next way to make men Atheists, to see Papists so much distrust the efficacie of the word, and the so­liditie of Euangelicall truthes, that they are euerie day driuen to seeke new supporters of their faith, which they easily discerne to bee hammered by the hand of fraud.

As no Pag. 130 age since the Creation hath beene without prophane fellowes, prone to denie Gods prouidence ouer mankind, to iest and scoffe at his seruants; so likewise the same prouidence hath not permitted anie age to passe with­out Miracles and markes of his power, keeping the impious in awe by punishments, miraculously inflicted vpon their mates, and comforting his true worshippers, with extra­ordinarie [Page 218] fauours and benefits bestowed on them aboue natures reach.

What authoritie you haue to Canonize them, that worship your Ladie of Hall, for true wor­shippers, (as your supposition intendeth) wee will not dispute. It would put you to a plunge to proue Image-worshippers true worshippers. Christ Ioh. 4.23 Da medium lu­nae Solem simul & canis iram. saith that the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and truth: and not the Mother of Hall in stocke or stone. Not to stand vpon this; I doe not see how you can excuse your presumption, in aduentu­ring to teach the A posse ad esse non sequitur ar­gumentum. Almightie, how hee should awe the impious, and comfort his seruants. The state of the Church were in a lamentable case; if there were no other means for the producing of these effects, be­sides the working of new Miracula per­sequentes fu­giunt, fugientes persequuntur. Aeneas Siluius. miracles. The persecutors of Gods people may be stricken with terrour, when they heare the successe which Pharao, Antiochus, Se­nacharib, Herod, and the rest had. If with the Adder they stoppe their eares against these; neyther would they beleeue, though an Angell should come with a fierie sword from Heauen. The Lord is able by his secret Iudgements, to preuent their malice, and con­found their deuices. The patience which hee giueth vnto his seruants is a miracle which more astoni­sheth their Enemies, and addeth a greater measure to their owne glorious reward, then if they were res­cued by a miraculous supply. To you that desire fire and bullets, to strike off the noses of your Ene­mies, I may say with our Sauiour in the like case. Nescitis cuius spiritus sitis.

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In what Pag. 131 age since the comming of Christ hath eyther pietie more needed a spur, or impietie a curbe, then in this we liue in? The Wolfe is said to be so stiffnecked and greedie of his prey, that he neuer looketh back, but when thunder-claps from Heauen affright him. When did such a troupe of stiffnecked Wolues, voide of conscience and feare of God, range so vncontrouledly ouer the Christian World, as now they doe, though in the cloathing of sheepe, vested with the name of Christians?

Doctor you mistake; the proximitie of the right object duls your sence. They beare the names of Iesuites, and Seminarie Priests, that plucke the skinne ouer the eares of the Lords sheep. These were those rauenous Wolues, who gaped so wide in the yeare eightie eight, that it was thought this whole Iland would scarce haue Non missura cutem nisi plena cruoris hirudo. stopped their mouthes. The Parisian Massacre, and the Gun-pow­der Soeuire in sui [...] genus plus quam belluinum. Treason are sufficient witnesses of their bound­lesse crueltie. That they were preuented and subuer­ted, they will not saie it was a miracle; yet did they find and feele to their cost, that the hands of God were not bound. The thunder-clap of Gods iust▪ vengeance, turned backe their Antichristian adherents, and fru­strated their Sathanicall designes. If you long so much after wonders, here is matter of vndeniable admiration. This was the Lords doing, and it is won­derfull in our eyes.

The stiffest-necked Pag. 1 [...]2 Wolues, the prophanest He­retikes, when they heare the miracles done in the Church so great and so witnessed, as those wee stand vpon are, I make no doubt but sometimes they tremble, and though [Page 220] they set a good face on the matter, yet their hearts pant in their breasts. These perchance may be melancholy fits, that Lipsius his storie caused in the Knights breast, which to driue away, hee read his Booke rosting Crabs by the fire side, with a pipe of Tobacco in his hand, still calling for more wine,

The miracles that were done in the true Church, serue vndoubtely for the terrour of all pro­phane persons in future ages. This was the aime of their exhibition Their number, euidence, and suffici­encie was such, that where they are published, they need not be renewed. Where the miracles of Iesus be neglected, Saint-miracles will not be much regar­ded. But whether yours beare the same impresse with those, that is further to be debated.

I should account it no small wonder, if Ia­bal would once learne to speake truth. Doth my Ma­ster say, that Lipsius his story draue him into a me­lancholy fit? Hee deliuers the contrary; that if a man were in a melancholy fit, Lipsius were as good as a Crab feast in a winters night; better then a thousand Sir Iohn Mandeuils, to passe away the time with mirth in graine. What will he not wonder at who makes so strange, that a man holds a Tobacco pipe in his hand? If hee had held it in his foote, that had beene more woorthy the noting. And yet if Iohn Clement had beene prescribed that Phisicke Pag 137 his feete being turned (by a monstrous composition) towards the forepart of his breast, hee had beene as like to haue vsed his toes as his fingers in that seruice. Had it beene but for Lipsius sake, he might haue swallowed the smoak [Page 221] of his tobacco iest. Tis well knowne that he vsed ma­ny a pipe, in the penning of his holy booke. Iabal is of their humour, who will rather loose their friend then their iest; but if hee could as throughly leaue his fiction, as my Master hath that Indian fumigation, his booke would haue had fewer leaues, and his leaues lesse lines.

I would wish Pag. 132. when his smiling sobriety hath gotten a more stayd countenance, he would in sober sadnes set downe, what condition or witnesses are required to make a history credible, which of the conditions doe faile in Lipsius relation; In what other histories they are found, if they want in his.

Since you take vpon you this Priestly graui­ty to Catechise him, that hath more learning and so­briety then his examiner, I will in his stead (though none of your parochiall charge) yeeld you an ac­count of my faith in this point.

Let me be so bold as to saue you that labor; when he moued the question, he looked wistly vpon me. He hath a spi [...]e at the Pag. 123. Ministers pen and the Minstrels pipe, neither am I vnwilling to interrupt my intended silence. To make a true miracle, there are these necessary requisites; first the fact must bee Ʋt illud quod sit, [...] solo Deo sic­ri p [...]ssit. Oliuer Maillard. Serm. de Conuers. Pauli. rarum, arduum, & insolitum, vnusuall and aboue the common or ordinary course of nature: cum in natura nulla sit dispositio propinqua ad susceptionem illius formae. Se­condly, it must bee done by the Almighty power of God in the name of Act. 4. [...]0.30 Mar. 16.17. Ac. 3.6. Christ. Thirdly the end ther­of must be to confirme true Iohn 5.36. Iohn 17.4. doctrine, to draw men to beleeue in Gods word, and to ascribe vnto him al [Page 222] spirituall worship and glory. Fourthly it must bee Mat. 12.33. & 16.1. &. 11.4.5. openly done, there must be neither deceptio visus, nor fascinatio sensus. Lastly it must serue rather for Infi­dels then beleeuers, to gaine their assent to the truth of the word; to which purpose the Apostle saith, that tongues are for a signe, 1. Cor. 14.22 not to the faithfull, but to the vnbeleeuing.

Which of these conditions Pag. 132. do faile in Lipsius his relations?

Nay rather which of them can hee produce to patronize his fables? his miracles do all sauor of a Cretian forge. To instance in the example which you thinke Sobriety cannot deride; When I consider the miracle of the Faulcon, it seemes to me halfe a mi­racle, that any Christian Master should be so heathe­nish, nay more, so sauagely brutish, as to hang his man for so small a scape, as the loosing of a Hawke, hauing no euidence to the contrary, but that the bird tooke flight without his Lure or leaue. Was his Lord a Catholique? then much may bee; Yet wise men make a doubt whether the Lawes of his Countrey would permitte such cruelty. We must also beleeue that his Falconer was of a mild spirit, so patiently to submit himselfe to the hang-mans curtesie. One would haue thought his Master should haue taken some pitty on him, before the Lady of Hall had sent him the Hawke. Wee dare not say the Master and man might bee trim-tram and confederate, in the effecting of this miracle. Yet I hope we may with­out offence aske what there was more in this mira­cle, then was in Mahomets Pigeon, which in the Peo­ples [Page 223] sight would flye to his eare, because hee had ac­customed there to feed her with corne.

Were Lipsius his miracles wrought in the name of Christ, Iabal were more praise-worthy for standing in their defence. But Mary carries away the Bell, I mean her supposed Image, which though it haue a mouth was neuer heard yet to pray. Per­haps she learned this lesson of S. Bernard, not to speak in the Congregation. So that your dumbe Virgine doing these wonders, neither in the name of Iesus, nor by prayer, is no lesse then a forestaller of diuine glory, which the Lord hath protested hee will not giue to Psalm. 42.8. grauen Images. And what are the Do­ctrines which your Hall wonders serue to confirme? are they not Culinarian Theorems which they striue to support? Forsooth they are the buttresses of Pur­gatory, Transubstantiation, Worshipping of Images, Pray­er for the dead, and of that diuine honour, which is sa­crilegiously ascribed to the Virgin Mary. Say we not truelie that these are the doctrines of Diuels? Can it stand with common sence, to giue that adoration to carued images, which the most glorious Angells re­fused? or rather, is it not most apparant that their miracles are the signes of the Antichristian beast?

That which is most worth the noting is this, that all your Ladies prodigies are wrought in angulo, where but few, and those selected are assembled. Sel­dome shall you read that their spirits spake, or that their Images came downe Non qui mira sed qui male a­git odit lucem loan. 3.30. by day. S. Greg. dial. lil. 1. ca. 4. Equitius was guelded by an Angell in his sleepe. The Maid that crusht the Deuill betweene her teeth in the Lettice, [Page 224] had no other witnesse in her mouth, besides her tongue, vnlesse happilie shee had a little Embrio in her wombe. I doe not well remember, whether Ig­natius Layola did in the daie or in the night, open the obstructions of the wench that was troubled with the stone. He was a Souldier, and therefore perhaps durst doe more then ordinarie in the day. This I am sure of, I could neuer hear yet by any credible report what tune it was, which S. Fasciculus temporum de anno. 754. Gingoffs wife did sing with her nether-lippes; whether voluntary, Salengers round, or Hunts-vp. Iabal is a good Musitian, his nose would haue beene as good as a Recorder to haue borne a part; and then his tongue would haue made a more certaine relation, then the Carmelite doth.

A man would hardly beleeue that there were in the Catholique towne of Hall so many Infidels, as Lipsius by his multiplicitie of miracles would make the world beleeue. Were not the greatest part vnbe­leeuers, those many miracles would bee altogether superfluous. Wherefore seeing your Ladies miracles are defectiue in all, and euery of these conditions which giue essence to a true miracle, their motto may be this. Dea picta, Miracula ficta. So that we may say vnto you, as S. Aug. cont. Faustum lib. 13. Augustine spake vnto the Manichyes. Miracula non facitis, quae si faceretis, tamen ipsain vobis caueremus. And no maruell, for either the Sacrist, which is the veriest knaue you can get, plaies his part in the Vestry, or else some beggarlie fellow iumbles vnder the Eaues of the Church.

In what Pag. 132. other histories are they found, if they want in Lipsius?

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In the histories of Moses, the Prophets, the fower Euangelists, and the Acts of the Apostles, Wee Pet. 1.19. haue a most sure word, to the which you shall doe well to take heede. This word (saith the Heb. 2. [...].4 Apostle) at the first began to bee spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed vnto vs by them that heard him. God also bearing them witnesse, hoth with signes and wonders, and with diuers miracles, and gifts of the holy Ghost. So much of Christs miracles and doctrine is written in the holy Scrip­tures, that wee Iohn 20.31. might beleeue that Iesus is the true Christ, the sonne of God, and that beleeuing in him wee might haue eternall life. What can wee desire more? What need is there of Goody Hals miracles? doth the spirit of God purposely omit many of our Sauiours miracles? and may wee plead the necessity of Hals wonders? Are not those that are written sufficient, or rather, are not yours superfluous? If your Lipsia­nists may be beleeued, the dead Image of the Mo­ther hath doubled the miracles of her liuing Sonne.

Lipsius doth Pag. 132.133. protest that hee read the Gests and Records, out of which he chose those which he iudged most worthy of the print; Wil not al men (saith he) beleeue these things, done in the sight of many, confirmed by sworn wit­nesses, &c. If any man after such inquiry, be not moued to beleeue such credible histories, I may apply that vnto him of Homer.

Thou hast eares to heare, that wants both wit and shame.

Homers verse, had I beene his translator, should rather haue run thus

Did your Authour choose such as hee iudged [Page 226] most worthy of the print? It seemes then hee thought some vnworthy. It had beene more for his reputati­on, if he had thought so of all.

Oh not of all; Lipsius protests that some were true.

I might answer with a non sequitur. What grounds hath hee for his protestation? Forsooth he read the Gests and Records; and so haue I Gesta Roma­norum. Their authority is much alike. If there were any difference, the later were in print, whereas Lipsius scraped his out of scribled and moth-eaten Coppies. What hath Lipsius to say for his Hall and Sichem won­ders, which the followers of Antichrist may not al­leadge more probably, in the defence of the strata­gems of their Lord, which by all likelihood are to be more conspicuous? and yet wee are forewarned not to beleeue them.

How much those Saint-canonizing Re­cords are to be suspected, we may iudge by the cau­tion that Gregory giues vs in his Decretals. Greg. 9. lib. 3 Decret. 1. de Re­liquijs et vene­rati me sancto­rum cap. 1. Audiui­mus (saith he) quod quidam intervos diabolica fraude decepti, hominem quendam in potatione et ebrietate occi­sum, quasi sanctum, more Infidelium venerantur. And a­gaine, Ibid. cap. 2. Cum ex eo quod quidam sanctorum reliquias ex­ponunt venales, veleas passim ostendunt, christianae reli­gioni detractum sit saepius: Ne in posterum detrahatur, presenti decreto statuimus, vt antiquae reliquiae amodo extra capsam nullatenus ostendantur &c. And hee con­cludeth, Praelati non admittant eos: The Prelates may not suffer those that come to their Churches to wor­ship, to be deceiued with the variety of figments or [Page 227] false relations, as it is accustomed to bee done in most places for gaines sake. Now if Hall and Sichem be with­in the Site of that continent which Gregory taxeth, there is no doubt but they who were to reape the profit by the concourse of Contributors, would set Lipsius pen in a large field, where he might haue sea-roome enough to hoyse vp all the sailes that his wit could beare. They would bee sure to present him Gests enough, though indeede they were no better then Iests, as all wise men accompt them.

If bare deniall Pag. 133. without proofe, stubborn Incre­dulity without reason, prophane iesting without sobriety, may make histories witnessed by the consent of learned, iu­dicious, and pious nations; what place will be left for hu­mane history, or diuine faith, or religious piety, in humane kind? Haue not heathens in former times, may they not at this resent, ouerthrow the miracles of Christ by these Engines?

They neither haue nor are able to supplant them, though all the powers of the gates of hell should bandy against them. These things were not done in a Corner. The heathen Oracles were inforced to giue place. The Centurions and Romane Souldiers were eye-witnesses: the Eclipse of the Sunne: the mouing of the earth: the dispersion of the Iewes, with other secular histories, are able to stop the mouth of Atheisme in their behalfe. If it bee not more then a spice of blasphemy, to cast these figuratiue doubts, I appeale to the Iudgement of your superiours.

What can Ibid. be said within the composse of humane credibility for the certainty of those stories, wherein Chri­stianity [Page 228] is grounded, which may not most clearely in defence of these?

It may not only be said but prooued, that the penne-men of those sacred histories wrote those things which they had heard and seene, in the pre­sence of many witnesses; their enemies beeing Iudges. Most of them sealed their writings with their bloud; all of them ioyned in one issue. So that to make the least doubt of them, were to question whether the Sunne doth shine at noone day. Were there not a Apoc. 13.5. mouth giuen vnto you to speake great things and blasphemies, you would tremble to match your fabu­lous reports, with those vndeniable verities, which haue the testimony of God, Angels, and men.

Those were done Pag. 134. openly that whole multitudes did behold them, so were these; Those were wrought his enemies being present, the like did happen in many of these. Those were written with circumstances, naming the time, the persons the places, and other particularities, with the like particularities doth Lipsius report the miracles of our Ladie.

Your owne Ouerth. Pag. 126. Bel-wether will stop his Masters mouth. Where God hath his Church, hath not the Deuill his Chappell? Is not Fraus Simia veritatis. fraud the Counterfeit of truth? Is falshood to learn how to contriue circum­stances, to gaine the probability of reall verity? It is hard I confesse to prooue a negatiue; but seeing you grant the certainty of the Euangelicall histories, wee need not trauel far in the inquiry; for as much as the signes of true miracles, which we haue fetched from thence, haue laid your Dagon flat on his face before the Arke.

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Shall I take the Doctor in his owne spell? Let mee heare how hee can disprooue Lib. 1. cap. 29 Aelians like relation. In the field of one Nicippus (saith hee) as the Inhabitants of Coos doe relate, there was an Ewe that did yeane a Lion. And againe; Lib. 4. cap. 17 When Pythagoras passed ouer the Riuer Nessus, he was saluted by the Riuer, saying, Salue Pythagora. These things are verie strange; and why may not they bee as true as Lipsius his reports? Shall they be iustified because no man trauelled into those parts, to discouer them? I hope hee names the places, the persons, the accidents, and the testimonie of the borderers. Shall we therefore crie out, what hu­mane credibilitie can be currant, if these bee capable of the blurre? Aelian is content we should laugh at these, and therefore Lipsius needes not take a poore smile in snuffe.

The storie of Pag. 124 Balaams Asse cannot teach him to make congruitie of this sentence. Iohn Swickius who lost his best nose, could any falshood bee more conspicuous, if hee still kept a good on his face? Lipsius telleth the yeare of our Lord when the same did happen, within thirtie three yeares since the Knights remembrance, the place where he liued in Brussels. How easie would it bee to trace the steps of this storie, and find the falshood thereof were it a fable?

And haue not Aelian and Herodotus the same buttresses, to vphold the bulwarkes of their Hi­stories? Had it pleased God for the punishment of our sinnes, to haue giuen way to the Powder Trea­son, which of these Circumstances would haue beene wanting, to haue made it a Grand-miracle? Your Lip­sians would haue set downe the place Westminster, [Page 230] the day the fift of Nouember, the yeare of our Lord 1605. the persons, his Royall Maiestie, the Yong Prince, the Lords and Commons of Parliament, the witnesses London, Lambeth, and other Townes many miles distant, which would haue trembled with the violence of that infernall clap. Then would you haue deafed the World with this vociferation, How easie would it be to trace the steppes of this storie, and finde the falshood thereof, were it a fable? This is your Engi­ners craft by cunning semblances, to cast such a fog, that their knauerie shall bee hardly espied. It had beene no lesse then death for any man, to haue cal­led the truth of this miracle in question.

I neuer heard before that a milde Ladie did cut off so manie Gentlemens noses. I rather wonder, if this of Swickius bee true in modo & forma, how it came to passe when Popish Idols were suppressed in England, that no one man lost his nose, nor receiued any harme, though many such woodden Ladies then lost their heades! Had they had such a Ge­nerall as Lipsius, they would haue made olde ha­uocke.

This iesting Pag. 134. 135 at miracles done in our Church so credibly reported, ouerthroweth the bulwarke of hu­mane authoritie, which Christianitie doth presuppose, and openeth a wide gappe for Atheisme and Infidelitie to enter.

If a man bee once found false, ei non est credendum, etiamsi per plurimos Deos iurauerit. The Scrip­ture is a sufficient shelter against Atheisme, were the Block-houses of your Miracles battered to the ground [Page 231] If the wayting maide bee Fucata pedisse­qua dominam arguit impudi­cam. painted, the chastitie of the Mistresse will be shrewdly suspected. The Euan­gelicall miracles scorne the attendance of your bable trumperies, by which their sinceritie is more like to be derided, then honoured.

Iabal should doe well to remember, how the holy Maide of Kent (as good a Maide as Dolls bucken tub) was taken napping. Hee forgets how soone the fiue woundes were healed. I doe not thinke but hee hath read how Acts Mon. fol. 648 Duke Humphrie vn­cased a fellow, who came from B [...]rwick, as if hee had beene borne blind, vnto Saint Albons, (where King Henrie the sixt then kept his Court) and there recei­ued his sight. Haue you not heard of the foure Langij Chron. ad annum. 1509 Ia­cobin Fryars who raised Vlcers in the feete, handes, and side, of a simple man, that so they might gette somewhat by the sight of a new Saint Francis? Lib. 9 Slei­dan can tell you how the Cordeliers of Orleance put a Nouice ouer the vault of their Church, pittifully sighing and lamenting, as if hee had beene the soule of the Prouosts wife, who died without giuing anie thing to the Church. Why may not Lipsius his pent­house be thatched with the same Fascinatio nugacitatis. reeds? They are all eiusdem farinae. Had there beene so prudent an Examiner as Duke Humphrie in Hall and Sichem, Ia­bal would not now wonder at so triuiall a figment, which is not worth a strawe, easily blowne awaie with the least blast of a considerate thought.

The greatest sort of Romish miracles are, eyther such as maie bee accomplished by art, or sub­orned by fraude. Yet doth not their tyrannie spare [Page 232] to impose credence vpon Christian soules, for their Coffer-aduantage. Tis not manie monthes since I read in Part. 4. Sum. maior. tit. 14. c 1. 10. de Septemp. purg. §. 7 Antoninus of certaine Fishermen, who drawing their Net to land, found therein a massie peece of Ice, whereof they were not a little glad, be­cause they knew it would bee a welcome present to Theobald their Bishoppe, who was exceedingly tor­mented, with a burning heate in his feete; neyther were they deceiued, for it stood him in great stead. One day amongst the rest, as he was cooling his gou­tie toe, he heard a voyce come out of the Ice, where­vpon he conjures it to tell, who or what it was. The voyce answers, I am a Piscater [...]s ani­marum. soule afflicted for my sinnes in this Ice, and vnlesse you say thirtie Masses for me, thirtie whole dayes together, I shal not be deliuered. Theobald instantly betakes him to his beades, and be­ginnes his taske. Whilest hee was at his worke, there is newes brought of an Armie approaching to sacke the Towne. The Bishoppe is driuen to giue ouer his deuotion for that time. When the hurly burly was past, he fals to his businesse the second time, but with as ill successe; for then there arose a ciuill commoti­on in the Towne. The third time hee meanes to make all sure: but see, (as the Deuill would haue it) the whole Citie with the Bishops Palace, was all on a light fire; His seruants were importunate with him to cast away his booke, and to prouide for his owne safetie. Doe what they could, they could not pre­uaile. All the answere they get is this, that though the Towne should bee burnt to the ground, hee is resolued not to giue ouer, till hee had made an end. [Page 233] To bee short, hee was as good as his word. Would you heare the issue? He had no sooner finished, but the Ice melted, the soule was deliuered, and the fire vanished; neyther was there any dammage at all receiued. If this bee not true aske the Fishermen; poore soules they litle thought, they had taken such a bootie.

There was none in the Towne but must needes take notice of this strange accident. But shall I quit your tale wirh another, out of In fest. Iohan. Euang. ant. port. Lat. Fryar Iere­mie? There was a certaine holy man, who was trou­bled as hee trauelled with a boysterous winde, inso­much that forgetting himselfe, he fals a cursing and poxing Aeolus, for his vncharitable dealing. Well, when hee comes to his journies end, hee bethinkes himselfe what a sinne hee had commited; and is so touched with compunction, that he lockes himselfe vp in an house and casts the The like in the life of S. Eugin. Abbot of Euesham. key into the Sea, vow­ing neuer to come out, till the same key were found. I dare say Iabal would be loath to be pend vp so long; but this was the pennance of that age; and see how it succeeded. Hee had not beene there a yeare and a day, but hee had a fish giuen him, in whose belly this key was found. You must thinke it was a deare morsell to the poore Trowte: no maruell though shee could not swimme awaie, with such an Iron weight.

Had it beene an Estrich, I should sooner haue beleeued it. Wee must imagine it was a verie hungrie season. What jolly Laddes are these? they scorne pettie miracles. It was worthily thought a [Page 234] great matter, that a fish should bring Peter a piece of Mat. 17.2 twentie pence; but Fryar Ieremies nogging fish puts that cleane downe, shee swallowed a whole key at a gobbet. His Sobrietie is of a verie dull tem­per, that cannot finde a laughter for these inchanted deuices. And yet this is nothing to that I once heard a Catholike deliuer, of one Pref [...]n opera Dionis. Areop. Dionisius a Martyr, who when his head was cut off with a sword, tooke it vp in his handes, and went with it in that manner the space of two miles, till he met with a woman, with whome hee left it in trust. Let Nicephorus deliuer it with a Ferunt; you shall haue those that will shew it you, and sweare it is the same head. If he had stum­bled by the way; a good face might perchance haue beene mard.

The persons and Pag. 136. 137 places named in most of Lip­sius his stories are famous, Flanders, Bruxels, Louaine: examine persons and places, wee desire no fauour, truth seekes no corners; For example, the famous miracle of Iohn Clement, that he was lame from his natiuitie, and of a monstrous composition of bodie, his thighes and feet contracted, and turned towardes the forepart of his breast, so as his knees did grow, and sticke thereto, his bo­die was round, or in a manner Sphericall, vnfit to stand, lie, or walke, this the whole Citie of Bruxels can witnes. Being carried to our Ladies Chappell at Sichem in a wa­gon, and hauing confessed his sinnes, and receiued the blessed Sacrament, hee did in the end, finde his contracted and bound feete to bee loosed, and stretched forth with such strength, that his doublet that staied them was bro­ken in peeces, so as presently hee stood on his feet him­selfe, [Page 235] the beholders being amazed thereat.

They would haue beene more astonished had they seene another stand vpon his feet. Tis well your Ladie can make crooked Catholikes stand a­lone. It maie bee the Taylor sowed the seames of Clements doublet, with a hotte needle and a burnt thread.

Can you Ibid. say that this is a Miracle of the maker? You cannot with any truth, except you meane the maker of Mankinde, who by the intercession of his Mother, reformed that monstrous errour of na­ture.

You talke so much of your Ladie, that you will make her right eare glow ere you haue done. They that are acquainted with your Gipsie-trickes, will not at all be amazed, at this setting of Clement on his feet; they will scarce wonder if shee had made him goe on his head. Your fascinations and deuices are such, that they passe common sence. This would bee better prooued by witnesses, then Lipsius his bare assertion.

I haue heard Pag. 138. that those potent, pious, and pru­dent Princes, whom the Knight so commends, did shew this miraculous Creature, and monument of Gods infinite power, and goodnesse, to that noble personage he waited on in that Embassage, assuring him vpon their know­ledge, who knew the partie, both before and after the cure, that the miracle was most vndoubted; at which sight it is very probable the Knight was present.

Nay then wee will no more meddle with your miracles; Haue you the face to beare vs downe, [Page 236] with such shamelesse Quid domini facient, audent cum ta [...]a fures? falshoods? What will hee not vndertake, who thinkes to make a man beleeue hee saw that, which he did not so much as heare? Shall I tell you? vpon my faith and credit, I saw an answere written from that noble Earle of Hertford. Earle vnto my Master, the tenor whereof was this. I receiued your Letter on Sat­terday, by my seruant Gregorie Boys, &c. What you account to be a fauour, I esteeme as a due of honour, to giue witnesse to the truth, when it is questioned, &c. My an­swere vnto your request, for your full satisfastion is this. When it pleased his Maiestie to imploy my seruice in the Lowe Countries, (all thinges considered very vnworthie any way, for such an Embassage vnto those great Persona­ges) the name of Iohn Clement was not knowne to mee by any occasion whatsoeuer, nor I thinke from the best, to the meanest of my troope; much lesse did I heare any word, from the mouth of eyther of those great Princes, the In­fanta, or the Arch-Duke, at any time, no not when I had the freest conuerse with them, which was at the dinner I was inuited vnto by their Highnesses, &c. So that by this you must giue vs leaue to guesse of your since­ritie, in the rest of your ridiculous Legends.

I cannot wonder Pag. 138 enough, at the miraculous im­pudencie of your Ministers, who hauing accused such fa­mous miracles, as ours are, for false, dare set to sale their owne toyes and trifles, as most credible things.

You shall doe well to tell vs who those Ministers be, and what those trifles are.

Ioseph Pag. 138. 139. Hall brings you a miraculous tongue, which hee got in his trauels in the Lowe Countries. A Graphie [...]e told him that a certaine Heretike being con­demned [Page 237] to be burned, went singing to the stake, for which the Magistrate caused his tongue to be cut out; and in pu­nishment heereof, the Magistrates sonne that was borne afterwards, had his tongue hanging down vpon his chinne like a Deere after a long chase.

Mirabilia sunt opera tua domine. The right hand of the Lord bringeth mighty things to passe. Such is his Iustice that he oftentimes retaliateth cruelty in the like kind. An eye for an eye, and a tongue for a tongue. But seeing the Author doth not Iurare in verba ma­gistri, if you will not beleeue it you haue it as good cheape as he; he doth not deny, but that his mother might loose her longing for a neates tongue. That which hee credibly surmizeth is this, that Lypsius would haue made a great matter of a lesse hint, had there bin a shadow of halfe this probability to serue his turne.

Iabals partiality is worth the noting. Wee must beleeue that Capgraue. Austen the Monke obtained by prayer, that certaine men of Dorset, and all their po­sterity should haue tayles, for hanging fish tayles in scorne at his backe; and that Thomas Becket furni­shed our Kentishmen with the like Pickadillies, for cutting off his horse tail. These mushrumps (groun­ded vpon a lesse motiue) may not bee questioned, though nothing so euident as a blareing label-lolling tongue, which without the helpe of a Muffler, could not be so well concealed.

How would Pag. 135. these hennes cackle, could they lay an egge worth the finding, that thus bragge of a shell full of wind?

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Where such demonstrations of Gods iu­stice doe occurre, they are not to bee smothered. When the scout you send into those parts shall dis­proue the relation, wee will say the Graphiere was a knaue: till then we haue reason to conceiue the best; neither do we doubt but the generall good opinion of Doctor Halls sincerity, will turne Lipsius his credit out of the Hall into the Kitchin.

Iohn Foxe brings a Pag. 140. dainty and rare dish, Cran­mers owne heart, which in the fire, his whole body beeing consumed into ashes, was sound whole and intire. which wonder seemeth to me the greater; in regard of the tender­nesse of your Martyrs heart, more flexible then waxe to any religion, which the Prince would haue him bend vnto:

Si satis Seneca. sit accusasse, quis erit innocens? Cran­mers Epistles sent to the Queene, his confession of the true Faith, with detestation of Popery, found in his bosome at the time of his executiō, & the reuenge which he shewed in burning the hand that through frailtie and cruell vsage, had inconsiderately subscri­bed, do sufficiently free him from the suspition, both of irreligious leuity (which the voluntary neglect of his worldly dignities, for the maintenance of the Faith, and a good conscience, doth euidently dis­prooue) as also of all proditory or trecherous en­tendments, wherewith your Garnetian brood is so generally and notoriously inured.

By whom I Pag. 140. 141 pray you was that heart found? by Catholikes? why are they not named? by Protestants? why did they not take it vp? Did they feare to scorch their Pro­testant [Page 239] fingers in the ashes of that fire, that spared a Prote­stant heart? If they tooke it vp, what is become of it? where is it kept?

Tis fit indeed you should be made acquain­ted. Would you serue Cranmers heart as your associ­ates did Bucers bones? If the fire wold not burn it, you would try what the Butchers chopping-knife could doe. I haue heard good Diuines say, that the body of Moses was purposely concealed, least it should haue beene Idolatrouslie worshipped; neither did it stand with the wisedome or safetie of those profes­sors, by whom this heart was discouered, to make proclamation thereof, least the subtiltie or cruelty of your Iesuites might haue exposed it, to a second ig­nominious doome. Wheresoeuer it is, it is safe e­nough from the scorching of your scandalous pen.

Touching this holie mans heart, I will say vnto thee, as the Angell of the Lord spake vnto the Deuill. Zach. 3, 2. The Lord rebuke thee O Sathan, euen the Lord that hath chosen Ierusalem rebuke thee. Is not this a brand pluckt out of the fire?

It is not Pag. 141. wisedome for any mans faith to feede ouerhastily, vpon so dangerous a dish of meat.

Haue we not the like instance of Gods pow­erfull prouidence, in the preseruation of Zuinglius his hart, from the fiery flames? Oswaldus Myconius in the description of his life writeth thus. Hostibus di­gressis, post diem tertium accedunt amantes Zuinglij, si quid reliqutarum eius offenderent, et ecce Cor (mirabile dictu) se offert è medijs cineribus integrum et illaesum. This also doth Henricus Lupulus witnesse in his Epi­taph. [Page 240] Cor cui flamma potens pepercit, et quod pallentem in cinerem nequit resolui &c.

These Reliques wil not relish with Iabals pa­lat, because his Lady of Hall & Sichē had their gloues on, when these things were acted. William And. Capgraue. Malmsb. giues you a daintier morsel, with which your queasie stomach is better acquainted; I meane the Relique which S. Dunstane found, when he tooke vp the bo­die of the Chast Editha. After hee had a while raked in her ashes, what doe you thinke hee found? Her The like of Iohn Trauers his thumb and two forefin­gers. Britannomodia. Pag. 179. thumbe, as beeing most hardned with continuall vse; and what else? Nick will blush to heare it. A Male olet. thing in the Suburbs of her belly, like the Circum­ference of a giants eye. You know what I meane? a peece of a buffe-ierkin. Is not this goodly geere? these are your sweet Reliques, which your Catholike Gallants must adore.

Some of your Pag. 143. Writers, seeing our relations to be authenticall, as none can be more, haue not brazen faces to deny the stories, yet their heart and tongue is no lesse im­pious, not fearing to affirme that these miracles are the miracles of the Deuill, and Antichrists lying wonders.

In fine In Mat. hom. 49. temporis (saith Chrysostome) con­cedenda est potestas Diabolo vt faciat signa vtilia. In the latter times shall there not come strong delusions, such as were those of Exo. 7.12.13. Iannes and Iambres? Is the De­uill thinke you growne a nouice in his old trade? our comfort is this; As Aarons rodde swallowed vp the roddes of the Magicians, so (saith Ad Algasiam Hierom) mendacium Antichristi, Christi veritas deuorabit.

Let their miracles bee brought to the test, [Page 241] and then let the world iudge, whether they bee not either the miracles of the Deuill, or Antichrists lying wonders.

What thinke you of the Merchant; S. Iam. Legend. Numb. 94. who praying to S. Iames to be released out of prison, was so powerfull in his zeale, that the high tower wher­in he was caged, bowed it selfe so low, quod ipsius sub­limitas terrae aequalis fuit, that it lay euen with the ground, and so hee escaped, neither was hee seene by those which pursued him, though they were hard by him. Here was an inuisible miracle; me thinks they might haue followed him by the sent, for surelie he was in a feting case. Was not S. George a mightie man, who made a Maide lead a Dragon in a string? Was S. George. O Strange! hee not of a verie cold constitution, who thought him­selfe in a bath, when Datianus put him in a frying-pan, full of boyling lead? I trow hee had a tough hide. The very Children can tell, how Pope Silue­ster bound vp a dragons mouth with a Is it possible? threed, and signed it with the signe of the crosse. Mary you must thinke it was either a weake Dragon, or a strong thread.

Perhaps the crosse wherewith hee sealed him was a good yron hammer; and yet we read that S. Legend. 137. Iustina with the signe of the crosse, made the De­uill melt like waxe. Was not this a flexible Deuill? she was of a stronger metall, for being put into a pan full of pitch & waxe, presentlie the fire went out, neither haue we anie notice in the history, that she did leak. The best iest is of S. Petrus de Na­talibus. Margaret, shee (forsooth) was swallowed vp of the Deuill, beeing in the forme of a [Page 242] Dragon, and being in his belly, shee made the signe of the Crosse, instantly his bellie brake, and thence came a Saint out of his side. But it was not long be­fore she cried quittance with him; vpon a time shee tooke him at an aduantage, and caught him by the haire of his head, cast him downe, and set her right foot vpon his neck. In those daies they had the Deuil at a becke. S. Daem [...]n fluxu ventris [...]iectus est. Legend. Lob. 213 Genoueua cast him foorth in her close stool. Though it were a kind of sluttish dispossession, yet could not the Deuill complaine of hard lodging. He lay worse when Pet. de Natal. lib. 8. de sanc. cap. 20. Lupus (spying him to be crept into a tub of water) cast a cushion vpon him, & kept him fast in; then sayes my author, tota nocte vlulabat, he roared all night.

Hee screamed worse when Saint Dunstan caught him by the nose with hot burning pincers. This Dunstan was a stout ladd. If a Church stood a­wry, he made no more adoe but put his shoulder to it, and so set it right East and West, as he would haue it stand. One commendable property hee had was this, that he was very musicall: Nay more, his harpe that hung vpon the wall, without the touch of any mans fingers, would play an Antheme, and sing of it selfe this ditty, Gaudent in coelis animae Sanctorum. You must not imagine that any Irish or Welch mon­kish harper plaied on the other side of the wall; for I can tell you S. Dunstans harpe needed no consorts. Amongst other merriments, we must not forget the good deed, that S. Capgraue. Le­gend. Wolstan did to a poore man, who had his stones cut, and his eies put out, by his ene­mies. This forlorne wretch, praying to this Saint, [Page 243] got new stones, and better eies then he had before.

Are these the holy and vndoubted miracles, vnto which our credence must stoope, as Bonellus his Statim Asi­na genua flexit, et capite inclina­to reuerentiam exhibuit. Came not Bellarmines Ma [...] of the same Syre. asse to the consecrated host? If wee deny these, he asketh Pag. 133. What place will be left for humane historie or diuine faith? nay he sticketh not to moue this que­stiō, What can be said within the compasse of humane cre­dibility, for the certainty of those stories whereon Christi­anity is grounded, which may not most cleerely be prooued in defence of these? There is no euasion but wee must be branded with his Cognizance, as brazen-faced he­retiques, if we deny these Pag. 143. Relations to be so authentical as none can be more,

Cassianus Iohan. Cass. Praes. lib. 4. z. A. a. doth highly extoll the humili­tie and obedience of one called holy Iohn, who rai­sed no small admiration by his obsequious confor­mitie to his superiours behe [...]ts. Among other trialls of his loyaltie, the Senior set him this taske. There was in the wood-yard of the Monastery an old stock, which had more then a twelue-moneth before been cut for fiering. This he takes & sets into the ground in the sight of Puny Iohn, and commands him euery day to water it, till it tooke new roote, and began to sprowt. The Nouice is not slacke in the performance of this imposed duetie, no sicknesse, no festiuall stayes him, but as soone as the Sunne was vppe, hee trudges two miles for water, to moysten this rotten plant. To be short, at the end of two yeares the old Monke comes to the place, inquires and askes Iohn whether his stocke had yet taken roote; but heerein Iohn cannot resolue him; wherefore as if hee meant [Page 244] to try the successe of Iohns labour, hee puts to his hand, and at the first plucke pulls it cleane out of the earth, willing him to water it no more. Heere was an end of an olde song. When I read it, I was in doubt whether I should more admire his humility, or his stupidity.

Iabal wonders to what purpose you tell this tale, seeing the miracle failed,

Had hee any wit hee might easily resolue himselfe. How thinke you? Is he not somewhat of kin to puny Iohn? The dry stocke which he hath bin all this while a watering, at the command of his su­periours, is the point of Purgatory and Miracles; a dead stocke God-wotte, fitter for the fire then his paines. He hath with great labour fetched his wa­ter as farre as Hall and Sichem, more then two miles off, yet all to little purpose, the stocke hath neither gained verdure nor iuice, but is as Non proficit hilum. loose in the riuet as before. Wherefore his superiours may doe well, either to set him a more hopefull plant, or to ease him of his bootlesse paines; for all that he shall get by his industry in this kinde, is the opinion of o­bedience: and heerein he hath gotten a Triumph in­deed; which whether it sort more with his credit or shame, I leaue to the censure of more iudicious sur­ueyors.

The sight of Pag. 146 the bleeding wafer-cake at Bruxels, seemeth to haue made the Knights eares glow, but what stories of the like miracles might he read, were hee conuer­sant in ancient Ecclesiasticall histories?

You meane about the adoration of the Di­uine [Page 245] sacrament; but heerin are we satisfied by Part. 4. qu. 53 memb. 4. art. 3. fol. 2 Alex­ander of Hales. In Sacramento (saith he) apparet caro, in­terdum humana procuratione, interdum operatione dia­bolica. In the Sacrament there appeares oftentimes flesh, sometimes by the slight of man, sometimes by the operati­on of the deuill. This In ca. 14. Dan. Lyra confirmeth, as he is [...]itly alleaged by the Knight, Fit aliquando in Ecclesia ma­xima deceptio populi in miraculis fictis à Sacerdotibus, propter lucrum temporale. Wherefore in what Mona­sterie, or on what Altar soeuer you pretend to shew Christ in the flesh (whom wee know to keep his cor­porall residence on the right hand of God, in the highest Heauens) wee are forewarned and forear­med not only to suspect, but vtterly to reiect such fa­bulous vntruths. If anie man shall say vnto vs, Loe Mat. 24. v. 23. here is Christ, we must not beleeue, for there shall arise false Christs and false Prophets, and shall shew great signes and wonders.

Tis time for Iabal to leaue off watering this rotten stocke; nor sixe reasons, nor sixe hundred buc­kets full of Holy water, will make M [...]e ruit sua. it thriue. If hee haue anie thing to say touching our conuersion by Gregorie, or anie excuse for his Delegates insolencie, which hath not beene formerly answered, let him say on. I brake my fast verie early, and now I feele my stomacke beginne to wamble. Perge Domine Doctor.

CHAP. VI. Great Gregories proud Delegate dismounted, and Popish pretended deuotion vncased.

I Might here end Pag. 154 Purgatories Triumph, but that in his Coun­ter-snarle the Knight quarrels with me about the first Conuersi­on of the English Nation vnto Christian Religion, which I said in my Treatise, was performed by Saint Gregorie and those holy Monkes he sent.

If your monstrous Hidra haue yet any more heads, wee shall not want keene weapons to cut them off, as soone as they beginne to sprout. The garland which you haue prepared, may be conuer­ted to some better vse; for Gregories supposed Con­uersion will be no great furtherance to that Trophey, which you haue a desire to reare. If your Roman stage-playes (consisting of dumbe shewes, and colourable miracles) cannot preuaile, the Sabine Ladies will ne­uer be wonne.

Suppose it should bee granted, that the Christian faith of our English Nation was kindled at Romes light; I haue oft seene that Lamp which hath made others to shine, choaked and dimmed, eyther with want or surplussage of Oyle. But this seemeth to me verie strange, that they who teach their Ca­tholike [Page 247] Pupils to build vpon Antiquity, will not suf­fer them now to fetch the Pedigree of their Conuer­sion, beyond the moderne arriuall of Augustine the Monke.

The view of all Ancient Records free vs from the feare of this needlesse supposition. The Let. to T.H. Pag. 92. testimonies of Gildas, Theodoret, Nicephorus, and Baronius haue beene vrged by the Knight to prooue that the Inhabitants of this Iland were conuerted, either by the Apostles, or Apostolike persons. Yea he proueth by the acknowledgement of their owne Of three conuersions. Authour, that from the time of King Lucius, vntill the comming of Augustine, the Brittons did not alter their faith; which was one and the selfe same in all substantiall and materiall points, with that which Augustine brought.

The Pag. 166. Brittons were Christians when Saint Au­gustine came; doth it therefore follow, that the Saxons were not Heathens? The Mountaines vnto which the Brittons retyred, were full of Christian Churches; might not the rest of the Land be full of Idols? is anie man so sil­ly as not to perceiue your Consequent to be ridiculous? Why Pag. 165. might not Saint Augustine conuert the English vnto Christ, though the Brittons were Christians before? And if by his entrance, and preaching hee did conuert them, why should not the same bee stiled the Conuersion of the English Nation? The Pag. 167 Conuersions named by the Knight, truely vnderstood of Brittons only, are impertinentlie brought to proue, that Saint Gregorie and Saint Au­gustine his Delegate were not Authours of Christianitie amongst the English. Suppose Pag. 168. the two thousand of Ban­gor [Page 248] had beene a Million of Monkes, yet beeing Brittons, quid ad Rombum? may he not be iustly thought a Bango­ring disputant that doth thence inferre, that at that time the Saxons were not Heathens?

Did not Augustine finde an Arch-Bishoppe, and seuen Bishops, when he arriued amongst the English Saxons?

These Ibid. were not Professors and Preachers of Christian faith among the English Saxons. They neither preached vnto them, nor liued amongest them, as Saint Gregorie doth expresselie say in his Epistle to Saint Augustine: In Anglorum gente tu solus Episcopus; thou art the onely Bishop among the English. If you Pag. 167 meane that before Augustines arriuall, the Saxons, some of them at least, were Christians, your Assertion is euidently false, against all histories.

Solus & vnus, more Superlatiuorum accipiun­tur. Gregory beeing farre remote, wrote perhaps as he was informed by the Letters of his Agents, whose pens were tipt with partiality, and wholly bent to promote their masters fame, and the suc­cesse of their owne voyage.

That not only in Wales and Scotland, but euen in the vmbilique of the Saxons Domi­nion, there was a conception of Christian faith; I am the rather perswaded of, because King E­thelbert, who then raigned in Kent, had a Christian Ladie to his wife; as also in regard of the Aliquid boni propter vicinum bonum. vicinitie of those bordering Brittons, with whom, both in the time of warre and peace, they could not but haue conuerse. Neither is it probable but that the Saxons, [Page 249] who were to stand to the courtesie of Vortiger, for their peaceable abode, would somewhat conforme themselues to the Religion of the king, vpon whose fauour they were to depend.

Into Pag. 173. what desperate absurdities doth malice a­gainst the Sea of Rome driue you?

The ground of this surmise is originally rai­sed from S. Gregories penne; wee can haue no better witnesse then himselfe, who writing to Theodoricus and Theodibertus Kings of the French, speaketh in this manner. Greg. lib. 5. epist. 158. Peruenit ad nos Anglorum gentem ad fidem Christianam desideranter velle conuerti, sed sacer­dotes tuos è vicino negligere, et desideria eorum cessare sua adhortatione succendere. And writing at the same time to Brunchilda Queene of the French, hee saith thus. Epist. 159. Indicamus ad nos peruenisse Anglorum gen­tem, deo annuente, velle fieri christianam, sed sacerdotes qui in vicino sunt pastoralem erga eos sollicitudinem non habere &c. By which it appeareth, that the Saxons growing weary of their idolatrie (as beeing incited by the example of the Brittanes, among whom Christ was still professed, or by the meanes of Bertha then wife of King Ethelbert, and the Christian companie wherewith shee was attended) had intimated their Ignoti nulla cupido. desire to bee matriculated into the wombe of the Christian Church; as also, that had not the Borde­rers, either for feare or hate, refused to put to their helping hands, your Gregorie had had the least share in this businesse. The first of which will bee more conspicuous, if you call to mind the Veni, vidi, vici. speedie suc­cesse which the Monke found at his arriuall; For first [Page 250] the King takes order that hee should bee furnished with all competent necessaries, then at the hearing of the first Sermon, he giues command for other li­berall entertainment, licencing them by their prea­ching, to ioyne vnto the faith so many as they could; neither was it long before the King himselfe was baptized, which was no small allectiue to the rest of the people. Had not the way beene troden before, could he, thinke you, with so swift steps haue accom­plished his desire? So great a conquest ouer a setled Idolatrous people could hardly haue beene gained, had there not beene a former breach made.

These coniectures are not improbable, nei­ther is the matter great howsoeuer. For if the first place whence the Gospell was deriued, bee therefore to bee magnified beyond other Cities, then should Hierusalem and the Patriarch thereof be most highly esteemed, as beeing incomparablie honoured with the residence, Sermons and Passion of our Sauiour; as also with the Master- miracle of the fiery tongues, whereby the Apostles were enabled to propagate the glad tydings of the Gospell to the most remote na­tions.

This argument puts mee in mind of Saint 1. Cor. 1.12. cap. 3. 4. Pauls care in preuenting such inconueniences as might accrew vpon the like affected Supremacy. Hee would by no means indure that they, whether Paul Cephas or Apollos, whom God had vsed as his instru­ments to gaine others to the profession of Christ, should thereupon arrogate to themselues any opini­on, whereby their partiall Schollers should rather [Page 251] adhere vnto them then vnto others. Yet will you not bee perswaded, but that this part of the world must haue a necessary dependance vpon Rome, from whence it receiued an addition of that light, which at least by a glimmering notion (as I haue proued) it so much coueted. Could you shew that the Bishops of Rome, who after K. Lucius imbraced the faith, did for 400. yeares intrude themselues into the manage­ment of our Countrie affaires, your inference would beare a better glosse; but it is euident by the Epistle of Elutherius to that King, that he neuer dreamed of anie Iurisdiction ouer him or his Realme, albeit as a religious Bishop he willingly condiscended vnto his desire, in furthering him towards the Kingdome of God; neither did the Brittanes seeke to the Sea of Rome for the suppressing of Pelagius his heresie, but to the neighbour Church of Fraunce. It is vnlike Germanus and Lupus would haue aduentured with­out the Popes priuity to interpose their sickle, had the Haruest belonged vnto Rome.

Your instances in my opinion are very preualent, if their supposed originall Conuersion were graunted. But seeing wee are descended not onely of the Saxons, but rather from the Brit­taines, who were the Auncient Inhabitants of this Land; the Heathenisme of the Saxons first en­trance, cannot abrogate the antiquitie of our faith. As our Countrie hath the same denomination, so is the Qu [...] semeles [...] imbuta recens s [...]ruabit odorem Terra dus. descent of our Noble King, and of our Aun­cient nobilitie, lineally drawne from the prime stock of the old Brittanes; neyther is there any likelihood [Page 252] by consent of historie, but that the Brittish bloud runneth in all our History of Cambria by H. [...]boyd. Brittanni Saxones, Nor­mann [...], [...]e per­mi [...]i. Cambden. Brit. veines.

Are you content that First part c. 99. of Cl [...]deueus. Fabians Chronicle shall decide this controuersie? His wordes are these. It appeareth that Christs faith was by a long time hono­red in Brittaine, ere it was honored in France, except that such as hold the foresaid opinion, account the first com­ming of Christs faith into Brittaine, at the first Conuer­sion of the Saxons, when it was preached by Saint Augu­stine and his followers, which is not to the purpose. Was it not to the purpose in the Controuersie betweene France and vs? then will it but a little promote our alleagiance to Rome. I would gladly vnderstand by Iabal, whether he hold himselfe a Brittaine, or no. If hee denie it, his mother I dare say will hold him vn­worthie of his breath, and his Countrie of his being. If he confesse it, then hath his owne mouth giuen sentence against him, that the Brittaines were Chri­stians when Augustine came. The regiment of the Sa­xons had at length a consumption, and then the natu­rall bloud returned into the former and more pro­per parts, from whence it was vnwillingly retired, as being by violence withhelde in too narrow a strait.

Hath the Doctor neuer seene his Maiesties Quos Deus comunxit nemo separet. impresse with this Motto, Faciam eos in gentem v­nam? Why doth hee then goe about seditiously by a friuolous distinction of the heptarchy, to separate that people, whom the prouidence of the Almigh­tie hath miraculously ioyned with one heart, vnder one King? Scotland and Wales are one with vs, and we [Page 253] with them. So that the question being when we re­ceiued the faith, we must haue one and the same re­course to the originall plantation thereof in this Land, and not to the Noua gentium nomina extinctis prioribus oriun­tur. Quotid [...] aliquid in tom magno orbe mutatur. Senec. de cons. ad Albinum. recouerie thereof in some par­ticular parts.

It would be a difficult taske for the Doctor to proue that the Nation of those Saxons, who were entertained by Ethelbert, had not formerly receiued the faith, seeing Saint Colloss. 1.6 Paul saith, that euen in his age the Euangelicall message did fructificare in vni­uerso mundo. If he answere that at their arriuall they were Infidels, the like may bee said of those seuen Churches vnto whom Saint Iohn writeth. If he will not stand vpon the Which Fabiā in the life of Vortiger thinks to be Germany, first conuerted by Lucius of Ci­rene Pauls kins­man and com­panion. Auen­tinus in Annal. Boiorum. Nation, from which in tract of time the Candle-stick might be remoued, but instance in that part of the Land, which they in the state of Infidelitie did subdue; my Master hath prooued by sundrie instances, that this Island was Christian manie yeares, before Gregorie drew his Mothers milke.

Saint Hom. 4. in Ezech. Origen puts that cleane out of doubt. Terra Britanniae (sayth he) consensit in religionem Chri­sti. And againe, Hom. Quod Christus sit Deu [...]. insulae Britanniae extra hoc mare sitae, & in Oceano ipso positae, sensere virtutem verbi Dei.

That which we Pag. 173 affirme is, that Christianitie was neuer in the English Nation, before God by Saint Gregories prayers and Augustines preaching planted the same in their hearts.

It is most likely that Lethardus the French­man, the Queenes Chaplaine, was not idle Bonum est sui d [...]ss [...]st [...]. all the [Page 254] while before Augustine came. Will you say of him as of the Pag. 168 Brittaines, that hee could by no Yet the Bi­shops were brought be­fore Augustine by the meanes of Edelbert. Fab. Part. 5. cap. 119. meanes bee brought to preach the faith of Christ to the Saxons? By all probabilitie, being graced with the Royall coun­tenance of his Mistresse, he had greater Ʋnde scis mu­lier, si virum sal­uum facies. 1. Cor. 7.16 opportuni­tie of beginning this work, then Augustine who came as a stranger, without those meanes, which Lethar­dus could not want.

This is against all Pag. 173. 174 authors of our Countrie. S. Bede saith expresly that the King vpon Augustines comming gaue leaue for the preching of the gospel. A signe that none did nor durst preach, without his leaue, specially one that was so nigh about him as the Queenes Chaplaine, who thereby might bring both himselfe and the Queene in danger.

If you bee so good at signes, you shall doe mee a fauour to hold my Cardes at Mawe. At Au­gustines comming Pag. 173. the King gaue leaue for the prea­ching of the Gospell. Ergo, hee gaue no leaue before, non sequitur.

If he Pag. 174. conuerted any it is most likely they were noble men; but this thing could not haue bin hidden from the King. Had anie beene secretly baptized before S. Augustines arriuall by Lethardus, doubtlesse they would haue manifested themselues at his entrance, when the King granted vnto his Subiects to professe the Christian faith, which had beene a thing remarkeable, and would not haue beene concealed by Bede in his historie.

Are these your coniecturall Demonstrati­ons? In my opinion this consequent had beene more reasonable. Did the King so easily condiscend to a [Page 255] stranger, then could he not be aduerse to the Hi ambo cum in regia suae reli­gionis ritū quo­tidie seruarent haud dubie prin­cipis animum in alta caligine haerentem sensim cael [...]stis lucis ra­dijs illustrare caeperunt, incli­narunt (que) ad E­uangelicam dis­ciplinam quam ille libens m [...]x recepit. Polyd. hist. lib. 4. wife of his bosome, and her Chaplaine who was selected by the French State, as a man most eminent for his dis­cretion and deuotion Did he loue his Queene so ill, as to ingrosse the seruice of the whole Nobilitie to himselfe, allotting none for her attendance? By your leaue sir, there are many noble Gentlemen troubled with Collapsed Ladies, who could find in their harts to turne their popish seruitors out of doores, and yet dare as well take a Beare by the tooth, as giue them a frowne. Haue you neuer heard of Scimmington? I haue knowne him in my time beat the Constable out of doores. And doe you take the French Ladie for a sheepe? especially beeing receiued by the King vpon Fabian. in E­thelbert. 5. part. cap. 119. condition, that hee should suffer her to liue after her owne Law. Lib. 9. Ep. 59. Gregory himselfe graceth her with the title of a second Helena, in respect of the good which her Lord reaped by her christian in­ducements.

This manner Pag. 176. of speaking is a signe that the de­sire, not of truth, but of our disgrace, is the Bias of your tongues: which make you not feare to speake any falshoods, how improbable soeuer.

If you begin blind mans buffe, groping at likeli-hoods, you must not be angry if wee hold you play. Imagination is as free for vs as you. The point is not of any great import, seeing that you grant that our auncestors Galfridus Monumetensis. lib. 8. ca. 4. de Britannorum gestis. the Britaines were Christians, long before Augustine came to alter their Easter feast, The Pope smelt the fatnesse of the land, and therefore he thought by hooke or crooke, to haue his finger in [Page 256] the pye. And who must bee a Superintendent in this expedition, but Insolent Augustine? and what stuffe did he bring? Forsooth a Banner, Crosses, Images, Re­liques, and other friuolous and trifling ceremo­nies.

When S. Pag. 179. Augustine did deliuer his errand to King Edelbert, I finde in S. Bede this tenor thereof; that he came from Rome, and brought a most Fistula dulce canit volucrem dum decipit au­ceps. ioyfull message, which whosoeuer should obey, should haue eternall ioyes in heauen.

No doubt he would set the best face before. He might well promise celestiall ioyes in the land of the liuing, who gaped for the fairest liuing in the land. So he might be hugged in gremio matris; in the best skirts of their mother earth, he would not spare to promise the simple people millions of absolutions and heauenly ioyes in sinu patris, in the bosome of his heauenly Father. If you bee so conuersant in Bede as you would seeme, you may take this note, that the first question which he propoundeth to Gregory, his Master, was Lib. 1. cap. 27 de fidelium oblationibus quae accedunt alta­ri. What should bee done with the peoples offerings. Doe you smell a rat?

These are Pag. 179. grosse vntruths full of ingratitude. Heresie hath made Englishmen more sauage, then those were, whom that blessed Delegate found at his entrance.

Experientia mater stultorum. The Wolfe was then in Sheepes cloathing, and might more easilie deceiue; but since shee hath played her part in her proper kind, & bitten Ictus piscator sapit. Englishmen to the bone: the ayme of your Romish Embassies hath beene long [Page 257] since discouered by the bitter fruit. Considerate quid de gregibus agatur, quando Lupi pastores fiunt, saith S. Gregory; and againe, Custodiam gregis suscipiunt, qui insidiari gregi dominico non metuunt. Susceptae benedi­ctionis ministerium, vertunt ad ambitionis augmentum.

As for the conuersion Pag. 181. 182. of our Country by Saint Albertus Pig­hius translates this glory to Honorius. Ipsius cura et studio, praedicatione au­tem Pauli ab eo missi Episcopi Eudinum Bri­tannorem regem verbum salutis cum sua gente suscepisse. De Act. 6. Synod. Pag. 277. Augustines means, what, not Ciuility alone, but also san­ctity with an heauenly (not humane only) kind of life, he planted amongst vs our histories doe relate, which is such, as I wonder this new Gospell, which Ambition and Emu­lation, Wine and Women gaue the beginning vnto, dare boast of their modesty, ciuility, and sanctity in her pre­sence.

Iabal iumpes as if hee were in one of Simon Fitz-Magus his Irish bogges. If hee had gone but one Parenthesis further, surely he would haue stuck in the middest. There is in his clause not onely, one lye, but also a whole packet of imaginary vntrueths. I thinke he meanes to winne the quick-siluer tongue from Lipsius. Henry Fitz-Simon and he may well part stakes: they are the fittest to write a historie of Gi­ants and inchanted Castles, that euer I knew. If fictions may be admitted, they will outride the Constable; and yet I dare lay a wager Fl [...]gitia quae non inuenit ex­cogitat. Britan­nomachia. pag. 286. Fitz-Magus will bee at Manchester first.

They must needs ride then with Scarfes and Vizards: the one I am sure hath little reason to shew his face there, he hath broached so many opprobri­ous calumnies, in the disgrace of diuers reuerend persons of that quartar, whose learning, paines and blamelesse conuersation, is graced with such gene­rall [Page 258] approbation, that the most settled Papists are ashamed of his impudencie, and doe not sticke to publish their heartie dislike of such shamelesse and iniurious dealing. As for the other, who with a bra­sen face doth not only basely parallell, but also inso­lently ouermatch the foundation, modestie, ciuilitie, and sanctitie of our Religion, I will say vnto him no more but this, If our faith be of men, wine, or women, (as your Minerua doth dictate) then could it not haue withstood those gates of hell, wherewith it hath beene opposed. But if it be miraculously plan­ted by the hand of the Almightie, grounded vpon his sacred word, and embelished with most Christi­an vertues, Thou art then inexcusable, O thou false tongue. To iustifie the wicked, and condemne the innocent, are both abominable.

If the Pag. 192. 193. tree may be iudged by the fruit, what a noble and worthie tree was that conuersion, from the root whereof such innumerable Saints and excellent wor­kers of pietie in such abundance did spring?

Wise men are of opinion, that Papall poli­cie, rather then true Christian pietie, brought forth the greatest part of your gilded deuotion. What would they spare, who were frighted with Purgato­rie, and assured of Heauen for their workes sake? The Scriptures being imprisoned in the Monkes Cell, it could not otherwise be but that Ignorance must be the mother of their deuotion: neither is it e­nough to make an action praise-worthie, that the thing done be [...]onum, but both in manner and end it must be done benè: otherwise it is but spendidum [Page 259] peccatum. The building of the Prophets Sepulchers, though wrought with great expence, did not proue the Iewes to be true Israelites; neither doth the mul­tiplicitie of your Monasteries warrant the integritie of your faith. Nay more, let me be bold to say that which I am able to proue: Had not your Popelings fed vpon the peoples sinnes, there had not beene halfe so many Abbey-lubbers as liued most idly and deliciously in our Cloisters, and suckt the marrow of our Land. To omit other instances: The Chro­nicle writing of Edgars vnlawfull leacherie, as also of the erection of sundry holy-houses, makes this close. For Fabian. part. 6. cap. 193. these insolent and wanton deeds it is said, that by the counsell of S. Dunstane, hee builded and repai­red so many Abbies and houses of Religion as aboue is re­hearsed. By this you may ghesse, whether your de­uotion or ours had▪ the beginning from wine and wo­men.

The Doctor hath ill lucke with his compa­risons. If he will deigne to peruse D. Willets Inuento­rie of religious workes vnder the Gospell, hee shall finde that shee whom hee accounteth barren, hath more children then that Concubine of Antichrist, whose offspring he so much admireth.

Compare the Pag. 193. Monasteries the one builded, with those the other threw downe, the riches which the one gaue, with those the other tooke from Churches and holy vses. Let the Humilitie, Pietie, feare of God, reuerence to his Church, contempt of the world, which the one caused in great and mightie Monarkes, bee paralelled with the con­trarie effects your Religion bred in those Princes that first [Page 260] entertained the same in their Kingdomes.

And what then? Doe you thinke the Tri­umph will be yours? Who I pray you did first put the axe to the tree? Was it not your owne Woolsey. Cardi­nall? Did not he begin to demolish the lesser erecti­ons? Who was the ouerthrow of the In the time of Edw. the Second. Templers? Was it not the French King? and did not your Holy Father giue way to the extirpation of these? How can you perswade the world, that his Holinesse be­leeues there is a Purgatorie, seeing he makes so little conscience of praiers for their soules, by whose de­luded charitie these lesser monuments of deuotion were to that end first founded? As there is no re­spect of persons with God, so is the least mite thrown in his Treasurie, as well accepted as the greatest ta­lent of the most mightie Potentate. Why then should the Pope be so partiall as to neglect the re­liefe of the poorer sort, by passing licence to the am­bitious Cardinall, for the pulling downe of lesser Houses, founded with as great Charitie, to make princely walls for his pride? How will hee escape the dreadfull execrations of the first Founders? A thousand Iabalites will not bayle him. As for Henrie the eight, he is farre more excusable, because he fol­lowed the president of the Popes Legate, whome he thought hee might boldly imitate. And when the lands came to the spoyle, your owne Catholiques had not the least share.

Hee that shall reade the Records of those times, shall finde the villanies of the Monastiques so transcendent, that no religious King could with a [Page 261] safe conscience any longer tolerate them. When you shall call to minde how 6000. many childrens heads Gre­gorie saw at the drawing of a fish-pond, you will thinke he hath small reason to boast of their pietie, feare of God, and contempt of the world. And were your religious persons thus tainted: then must the secular needs be worse infected. When their purse would purchase their pardon with a Quodlibet, they that had the fairest meanes, were likely to harbour the foulest sinnes.

And as for humilitie, which was the second branch of his maimed comparison, as oft as he thinks of Augustines pride, mee thinkes hee should turne his face aside when he names it.

The Pag. 189. chiefe reason that made this blessed Saint to iarre with the British Bishops, was their want of Chri­stian charitie towards the English, not yeelding to preach Christ and Christianitie vnto them.

Tis strange he should be so inconsiderate, as to fall out with them before he heard them speake. Besides, he could not but heare how many worthie Britaines had beene treacherously slaine by Hengystus and his Fabian. part. 1. cap. 89. adherents, both vpon Ambry or Salisburie Plaine, and at a banquet, where they expected a bet­ter welcome. So that his Fatherhood should first haue procured hostages for their safetie, and then if they had gainsaied his religious motion, they had beene more liable to his cholericke censure. That for which his ambition is principally noted, is the stately Prologue of his greeting, in his surly and Pseu­do episcopall cariage towards his poore brethren, who [Page 262] had beene his Seniors in this Seignorie. The counte­nance is a token of the heart.

I confesse Pag. 190. it is so, yet but an vncertaine and fal­lible token, whereupon to frame a resolute and determi­nate iudgement in the condemnation of any, is against Christs expresse Commandement. Doe not iudge accor­ding to the face.

S. Iames explanes our Sauiours meaning, when he admonisheth vs not to reiect the Saepe sub sor­dido palliolo latitat sapientia. poore Saint for the meannesse of his habit, nor to respect the proud deuill for the richnesse of his vesture. Our Sauiours prohibition extendeth it selfe to worldly additaments, and outward hypocriticall semblan­ces; it excludes not the censure of the tree by the fruit, by which he saies wee shall know them. I con­fesse vice doth oft times beare the counterfet of ver­tue, but neuer did I see yet Christian humilitie so base minded, as to stoope to the imitation of pride. They are the agents of Papa nemini mortalium re­uerentiam facit, assurgendo aut caput inclinando seu detegendo. Antichrist, that are pontifi­call in their carriage, and loftie in their lookes. The Disciples of Christ doe learne of him to bee humble and meeke. Though it be rashnesse to iudge of any mans finall estate, before the time of our Lord come, yet it is a point of Christian wisdome to Libritui to­tum te nobis ex­hibent. Aug. in Epist. 9. discerne be­tweene a thistle and an oliue branch.

How oft Pag. 190. do godly and discreet Superiours shew an­ger, state, grauitie, and seueritie in their countenance, when their harts are full of humilitie, compassion, and meeknes?

I perceiue you are better acquainted with State policie, then Church pietie. There may bee iust occasions for Magistrates to be sometimes shar­per [Page 263] in words, and more austere in their countenance, then willingly they would: but if by State you vn­derstand disdainfull insolencie, it is in no hand to be suffered, especially in those that should be parternes to the flocke of Christ. Christianitie doth alwaies presuppose common ciuilitie. Had Minimus Apostolorum. S. Paul beene in Augustines roome, would he haue sate as if he had beene nailed to his chaire? would hee not rather haue prostrated himselfe before them, beseeching them as their seruant in Christ Iesus to bee reconciled? Vnlesse you shut your eies, you may easily iudge of the domineering spirit of this new Delegate.

Either you must condemne the Discite a me, quia mitis sum, & humilis corde ground of holy Scripture, vpon which that worthie and much reuerenced Heremite (to whom they repaired for counsaile) did build his direction, or his iudgement, in the Si homo Dei est, sequimini illum. Si aduen­tantibus ass [...]r­gat, seruus Dei est. inference and application, wherein hee did prophetically diuine of the future euent. Other­wise your Augustine cannot shake of the generally receiued opinion of arrogancie.

Gregorie being wise discouered the hauti­nesse of his disposition well enough, as appeareth by his Lib. 9. Epist. 58 Epistle sent vnto him, and therefore he tooke a safe course, for beeing troubled with him at Rome, to send him into these remote parts, where hee might domineere alone, without check-mate. It would make you smile to read how hee encouraged him in his voyage, when as vpon his returne hee would haue faine staied at home.

Were there no other demonstration of his pride, but the crossing of his Masters charge, that a­lone [Page 264] were sufficient. So that he might set vp his own Ceremonies, he did not much set by Gregories aduer­tisement.

Did not Pag. 184. Gregorie by his Delegate plant the present Romane faith that wee now professe? I thinke you say it more with your tongue, then with your heart.

Gregorie had formerly written to him, that the same Ceremonies were not necessarily to bee exa­cted in all Churches; and hee giues him his reason, Non Bede. lib. 1. cap. 27. pro locis res, sed pro bonis rebus loca amanda sunt. Notwithstanding he abateth not one graine of his violence in changing the obseruation of their Ea­ster-tide.

Is not Gregories doctrine sutable to that which is now holden by the Romanists? Did not hee allow of Images, the Supremacie, and Necessarium est trepidare de merito, religio­sum est gaudere de dono. Leo. merit of good workes, which they so superstitiously main­taine? If not, then it seemes Augustine went beyond the limits of his commission indeed.

For that I will referre you vnto the Appeale, wherein all those points are clearely proued to bee extrauagant digressions from S. Gregories faith. For my selfe, I was neuer so conceited of my owne skill, as to take vpon me to better the dressing of that, Quod alius condiuit Coquus, which is alreadie so well seasoned.

M. Morton Pag, 138. in his Catholike Apologie placeth Gregorie in his lists of Papists.

He that is willing to be deceiued, will easily mistake. He setteth him there downe as he is chal­lenged by the Papists, to haue beene a singular Pa­tron [Page 265] of their now Romish faith, not that hee so dee­med him, whom he proueth to haue beene nothing lesse, in manifold articles, agreeable to our Prote­stant doctrine.

To what end should we spend any more breath vpon him, whose wilfulnesse will indure no end? Seeing Gregories proud Delegate is now dismoun­ted, and their glorious Deuotion vncased, hic terminus esto.

O vnhappy Religion, Pag. 189. the Professors whereof, can finde no hope of saluation, without throwing downe into hell most eminent Saints, and amongst them the Conuer­ters of Nations! O wonderfull obstinacie against truth? that makes Christians that would be so thought, preferre Paganisme before Christian faith.

Salua res est, The Crane now begins to cry quacke. His last weapon is exclamation. M. Mayor, you may doe a deede of charitie to make him the Towne-cryer. He hath a throat for the nonce; and besides, Palmas ad sydera tollit. See how passionate­lie he acts his last scene.

He lookes I thinke for his Chariot, to bee carried away in state: but his reasons haue failed in their attendance, and therefore I thinke a Dung-cart will serue his turne. I may boldlie say he hath hard­ly earned a blew point for his daies worke.

Sir, I would you would take some order with him. Let him be first degraded, and then sent backe vpon his Asse with your pasport, as one of Dunces disciples, to the place from whence he came, there to abide with his Copes-mate Simon Fitz-Ma­gus; [Page 266] till they be both conuerted into a Glouers shop, or a past-board Couer.

You haue giuen him a right doome, (wher­of Iabal hath alreadie Hold the Co­uers of his li­bels against the light, and there shal you find to what vse his Statio­ner hath put his leaues. tasted) and that very seaso­nably; for loe how they returne thicke and three­fold from the fayre. What a noise doe their Iewes-trumpes, pipes, rattles, and fiddles make?

All is for ioy of Iabals Triumph; they make a May-game at his Conquest, and would gladly driue him out of his melancholy mood. It were pitty hee should die of the Sullens.

I see Nick begins to looke towards the Ca­stle; and it is high time for good husbands, to make more hast home; Iabals blazing-star hath now spent it selfe, in an infectious vapour. This dayes chat wil serue as a perfume. He did well to bury his name in the frontispice of his book, as presaging that his Tri­umph should be interred in eternall disgrace.

If God send me life and health, my memo­rie shall much faile me, but I wil make a Clapper of a quill to ring his Knell. Interealoci, vas valete et plaudite.