THere is no mā as I think that hath a natural wirte / but he wil graunte me that thys boke of Rastels makinge is either true or false. If it be false / then how so euer it seme to agre wyth naturall reason it is not to be alowed: yf it be true / then must we approue it. Naturall reason must be ruled by scripture If naturall reason conclude agenst scrypture / so is it false / but if it be agreynge to scripture then is it to be harde.

Of this maye I conclude that if Rastels boke be agreinge to scripture / then is it true and to be alowed / yf it determe contrarye to the scrip­ture then is it false and to be abhorred / how so euer it seme to agre with naturall reason.

Now is there no christen man but he beleueth surelye that if Chryst had not dyed for oure sin nes we shuld all haue bene dampned perpetu­allye and neuer haue entred in to the ioyes of heauen / which thynge is easye to be proued. for paule sayeth Roma. 5. As thorow one mannés [...] sinne that is Adam / ensued deth in all men vnto condemnacyon: Euen so thorow one mannes right wisnes which is christ / came right wysnes in all men vnto the iustificacyon of lyfe. Also Jo. 11. Johan. xi. It it necessarye that one man dye for the people / that all the people perish not: so that we had bene condempned & had perished perpe tuallye if christ had not died for vs. But Rastel wyth hys turcke Gingemin exclude Christ and know not of hys deeth / wherfore all the reasōs that they can make vnto domesdaye can neuer proue purgatorye (excepte they imagyne that we must fyrst go to purgatorye and then after [Page] [...] hell) for this is a playne conclusion that with 1 out christ (whō they exclude) we cā neuer come to heauen. what fondnes were it then to invēt a purgatorye? Now maye you se that Rastels boke is fullye answered and syeth all readye in the dirte / And that hys thirde dialoge is all fal se ād iniurious vnto the bloude of christ. As for the first and seconde dialoge / although there be some erroures both agenst diuinite ād all good philosophye / yet wil I passe them ouer / for they are not so blaspemous agenst god and his christ as the thyrde is.

Not with stondinge I wyll not thus leaue hys boke / although I myght full well / but I wyll declare vnto you what solucyons he ma­keth to these seauen weake reasons whych he hath propounded hym silfe. for he auoydeth thē so slenderlye / that yf a man had any doubte of purgatorie before / it wolde make him swere on a boke that there were none at al. Besides that it hath not onesoluciō but there are in it certē poyntes repugnaunte vnto scripture / so that it is greate shame that any cristen man shulde prē te it / & moch more shame that it shulde be pren­ted with the kinges priuilege.

The first and chefest reason that moueth thys man (yee and all other) to affirme purga­torye is thys / which he putteth both in the first chaptre o [...] hys thirde dialoge ād also in the last ‘Man (sayeth he) is made to serue and honoure [...] god / now if man be negligent aboute the com­maundmentes of god and committe some ve­niall sinne for which he ought to be punyshed by the iustice of god and dye sodenlye with out repentaunce and haue not made suffycyent sa­tisfaccyon vnto god here in the [...] / hys sou [Page] le ought neyther immediatlye to come in to the gloryous place of heauē because it is sum what defouled with sinne / neyther ought it to go to hell vnto eternall dampnacy on: bu [...] by all good [...] of iustice / that soule must be pu [...] g [...]d in a nother place to make [...] for those ef­fences / that it maye afterwarde be rece [...]ued in to the gloryous place of heauē And so by y ^• iusti ce of god there must nedes he a purgatorye.’

[...] this reason hath [...]ome apperaun­re [...] of truth & the similitnde of Wi [...]dom / how be it in dede it is nothinge but mannes imaginacy on and phantasie. For if we cōpare it vnto [...]od des worde then vanisheth it awaye / But we re garde not the worde of the lorde / and therfore chaunceth euen the same thinge vnto vs / that happened before vnto the chyldren of Israell. psal 81. My people regarded not my voyce and [...]. Israell gaue no head vnto me: therfore let I thē go after the appetites of their awne hartes They shall wandre in thyer awne imaginaciōs Now what go they aboute in this their inuen­cyon and imaginacyō of purgatorye / but to pon dre the: ustice of god in the balance of mannes iustice [...] / [...] is no reason that we shulde entre in to heauen which haue not here satisfy [...] vnto god for oure iniquite / excepte that we shuld be tour mēted & purefyed in a nother pla­ce. we were surelie in euell takinge if god were of mānes cōplexyon whych remitteth y ^• faute & reserueth the payne. Naye / naye / [...] is not greadie to be auēged. He tristeth not after oure blonde / but suffered al tourmētes in his awne bodie to deliuer vs frō the paynes y ^• we had de serued. But [...] they [...] their reason so stronge & [...] / I will con [...]ute it with one [Page] [...] y ^• they shall not knowe whether to toue ne thē. But first I will groūd [...] me vppon thys scripture. S. pause [...]. 1. Chessa. 4. on thys 1. thes. 4. maner: we y ^• liue and [...] in y ^• co­minge of the lorde (vnto [...]udgemet) shall not co­me yerte they y ^• slepe / for the [...], de [...] shal descende from heauē with a shute ād y ^e voice of the archangle ād t [...]ompe o [...] god. And y ^• deed in christ shal arise first / thē shall we which [...] & re mayne be caught vp with thē also in y ^• cloudes to mete the lorde in the ayer / and so shall we euer be with y ^• lorde. Now harkē to mi queitiō Those men that shalbe founde alyue at the last [...] daye (for as it was in the time of Noe euen so shall y ^• last daye come u [...]pon vs vnwares & as a thefe in the night. Mat. 24.) those mē I speake Mat. 24. of / shal any of thē be saued or not? There is no man that lyueth but he maye well saye hys pa ter noster / of the which one parte is: forgeue vs lorde oure trespaces as we forgeue them y ^• tres pace agēst vs / therfore is no mā pure and wyth Mat. 6. out all sinne. And this cōfirmeth. S. Jo. sayen­ge / If we saye we haue no sinne / we deceaue ou i. Jo. 1. re selues and the truth is not in vs. i. Iohan. i. what remedie now? shal they al be dāned? The re is no doubte but some of them shall not be verie euell / all though they haue not made suffi cient satisfacciō vnto god in thys worlde & they ought not to go vnto hel to euerlastinge dāpna naciō (as youre a wne reason proueth) & thē shal there be no purgatorie to purge and punish thē Besides y ^• if there were a purgatorie at y ^• time yet coulde they not be cast in to it / for all shal be done i y ^• twiclige of an yie. i. Cor. xv. & thei be ca 1. Cor. 15. ught vp to mete y ^• lord. 1. thess. 4. Is not god as 1. thessa. 4. [...]ust then as he was before? wil he not haue sin [Page] as well then as before / Now se you no euasyo [...] for all youre sotle imaginatiōs / for they are not pure and with out spotte (as you saye) excepte they make satisfaccyon them selues vnto god. But they must be wyth out spotte or wryncle that shall entr [...] in to heauē / as Rastell him sel­fe doth proue in the. ix. chaptre of his thirde dy­aloge. How be it I regarde not his testimonye / but the scrypture affermeth that to be true. Ephe. [...]. &. 5. Now syth they must be pure [...]uen [...]. [...]. with out spotte or wrincle that shall entre in to [...]. 5. heauē / and these persones are yet spotted with sinne and haue neyther place nor space to pur­ge them in: you must nedes conclude whether you wyll or not that they must all be dampned and yet you thinke that vnresonable to.

Se: whether youre argumentes of naturall reason bringe you. But what sayeth the scryp­ture? verelye paule. i. thessa. 4. espyed a nother waye: for he sayeth: & so shall we euer be wyth the lorde: and not dampned. Of this [...]aye we undentlye conclude / that some shalbe saued al­though they be sinners and neuer come in pur­gatorye (there taketh Rastell a falle and all hys fautours) and sith god is as iust and mercyfull now as he shalbe thē: whye shall we go more in to purgatorie thē they? but marke I praye you how properlye that substancyall reason wher­with they go aboute to stablish purgatorye con­cludeth: which condempneth in to hell so many thousandes / yee and euen them whom paule af firmeth to be saued. And yet at the begynninge it semed verye resonable.

Now haue I proued you sufficientlye that this their reason can proue no purgatorye / for as I sai [...]d there shall sinuers entre in to heauen [Page] and neuer come in purgatorie. Here paraduen­ [...]ure you be desirous to know how goddes iusti ce is pacefyed. For all synne by y ^• iustyce of god must nedes be punyshed. Now can the worlde espye no punishment here / & therfore they thou­ght it necessarie to imagine a purgatorie to pur ge ād punish sinne. Here answere I with paule [...]hrist the sonne of god beinge the bryghtnes of his glorie and verye image of hys substaun­ce 3 bearinge vp all thinges with y ^• worde of hys Hebre. [...]. power / hath in his awne person purged our sin nes and is sette on the right hande of god. Be­holde the true purgatorye and consuminge fire which hath fullye burnt vp and consumed our [...] synnes / and hath for euer pacefyed the fathers wrath towardes vs. Marke how he saieth that Christ in his awne person hath purged oure sin nes. If thou yet seke another purgacyon / then arte thou iniuryous vnto y ^• bloud of christ. For if thou thought hys bloude sufficient then wol dest thou seke no nother purgatorye / but geue him all the thankes and all the prayse of thy ho le helth ād saluacion ād reioyce hole in y ^• lorde.

Paule writeth. ephe. 5. on thys maner / Christ 4 loued the congregacion. And what did he for it / sent he it in to purgatorie there to be clensed? Naye verelye but gaue hym selfe for yt that he might sanctefye it and clense it in y ^• fontayne Ephe. 5. of water thorow y ^• worde / to make it vnto hym selfe a glorious congregacion with out spott or wrincle or any such thinge / but y ^t it shuld be ho lie & with out blame. Now if Christ by these me anes haue sanctefyed it & made it with out spot te / wrincle & blame / thē were it agēst all right to cast yt in to purgatorie / wherfore I must nedes conclude y ^t eyther paule sayeth not true whych [Page] affermeth y ^• christ hath so purged hys cōgreg [...] cion / or els y ^t Christ is vnrightwyse if he cast thē in to purgatorye which are with out spotte wrincle and blame in hys syght

Chryst chose vs in hym before y ^• beginninge Ephe. [...]. of the worlde / that we might be holye and with 5 out spotte in his sight. Ephe. i. If thorow hys chosinge and elec [...]yon we be with out spotte in his sight / Alas what blinde vnthankefulnes is that to suppose that he will yet haue vs tour­mēted in purgatorye. 6

Paraduenture euerye man perceau [...]th not what this meaneth y ^t we are ryghtwyse in hys sight s [...]inge y ^t euerye man is a sinner. i. Iohā. i. [...] Jo. [...] Therfore I wyll bryflye declare the meaninge of the apostle. Thys is fi [...]st a clere case that the re lyueth no man vppon y ^• erth with out sinne. Notwithstondinge all they that were chosen in Christ before the fundacions of the worlde we re layed / are with out spotte of sinne in y ^e sight Ephe. [...]. of god. Eph. i. So that they are both synners and ryghtuous. If we consydre the ymperfeccy on of oure fayth and cheryte / If we consydre Gala. 5. the conflycte of the flesh and the sprete. gala. 5. If we consydre oure rebellyous mēbres whych are solde vnder synne. Romanos. 7. then are Roma. 7. we greuous synners. And cōtrarye wyse / yf we beleue that of mercyable favoure god gaue hys most deare sonne to redeme vs from oure syn­ne / If we beleue that he imputeth not oure sin nes vnto vs / but that hys wrath is pacefyed in christ ād hys bloude / If we beleue y ^t he hath fre lye geuē vs his christ & with him all thinges so y ^t we be destitute in no gifte. Ro. 8. then are we Ro. [...]. rightwise in his sight & oure cōscience at peace Ro. [...]. with god / not thorow oure selues / but thorow [Page] oure lorde Jesu christ. Ro. 5. So maist thou per ceaue that thou arte a sinner in the silfe / and yet arte thou rightwise in christ / for thorow him is not thi sinne imputed nor rekened vnto y ^e. And so are they to whom god imputeth not their sin nes / blessed / rightwise / with out spotte / wrincle or blame Roma. 4. psalm 31. And therfore will Roma. 4. he neuer thrust them in to purgatorye. psal. 31.

Paule sayeth there is no [...]. for all ha­ue sinned and lacke the glorie which before god is alowed / but thei are [...]ustified fre [...]e bi his gra te / thorow the redempeyon that is in christ Je­ [...]u. Roma. iii. what saye you now / shall they yet Roma. 3. go in to purgatorie? Lalle ye that iustifi cacyon trelye by hys grace / to lye in the paynes of pur­gatorye? Suerlye that were a new kinde of spe ach which I thinke paule neuer vnd [...]rstode. Ob [...]esey [...]

Paraduenture some man will thinke myne argumentes to be of small pith / and to dissolue them by a dystinctyon sayenge / it is truth that god hath so purged and clensed vs from all ou re iniquytes / neuerthelesse hys mercye / purgin­ge and forgeuenesse haue onlye purefyed vs frō the faute and cryme / but not from the payne whych is due to the cryme.

To thys obie [...]tyon I answere / that if god ofhys mercye & thorow the bloude of his sonne Jesꝰ haue not remitted y ^e payne due vnto y ^e cry me / then shall we all be dampned. for the pay­ne due vnto everye dysobedyence that ys agēst god / ys eternall dampnacyon. And therfore yf thys payne were not forgeuen vs / then are we styll vnder condempnacyon / and so were chri­stes bloude shed in vayne / & coulde saue no man

If they wyll saye that thys euerlastynge Obiec [...]y [...] payne is not hoellye forgeuen vs / but that [Page] [...]t is altered in to the temporall payne of purga torye / out of which the pope maye deliuer them by his pardō / for els haue they no evasiō at all / then maye we sone confute them and that bi d [...] verse reasons. 1

[...]irst / that their wordes are nothinge but euen their awne imaginacion / for they can not confirme their saynges by the scripture / ney­ther ought we to accepte anye thinge as an ar­ticle of oure faith which is not approved by god des worde: for we maye neyther declyne vnto the right hande nor vnto the lifte: but onlye do that the lorde commaundeth vs deuteronomye 4. 5. 12. 13.

And agayne / if a man shulde aske them by what auctorite the pope geueth such pardon. 2 They answere / that it is out of the merites of Christes passion. And so at the last they are cō ­pelled to graunte even agenst them selues / that Christ hath not onlye deserved for vs the for­gevenesse of the cryme but also of the payne. If Christ haue deserved all for vs / who geveth the pope auctorite to reserve a parte of his de­seruinges from me / and to sell me Christes me rites for monye.

Besides that / everye Christen man ought to applye vnto god al thinges which shulde em­ploye his honoure as farre forth as the scriptu­re 3 will suffre. Now seinge it is more vnto the honoure of god y ^t he shulde deliver vs in his bloude both from the crime ād from the payne / and also not repugnaunte vnto the scripture but that he hath relesed vs from the payne as wel as from the sinne: for what entent shul­de we be so vnkinde as to delpolye him of this great honoure / and without anye auctorite of [Page] scripture ymagyne that he hath not delyuered vs from the payne as well as from the sinne?

Moreouer / if he shulde reserue the payne / 4 then were it no full remission and forge venesse / but what blasphemye is that to thinke that Christes bloude was not sufficient to ge [...]e full remission vnto his faithfull?

[...]urthermore / for what entēt shulde the pay 5 ne be reserved? to satisfye towardes god for their offences? Naye verelye / for all men lyvin­ge are not able to satisfye towardes god for one synne. Neyther are al the paynes of hell able to purge one sinne or satisfye for it: for then at the length the dampned soules shulde be deliuered out of hell. [...]inallye / I think y ^t there was ne 6 ver anye temporall punishment institute of god to be any satisfaccion for sinne / but the vse of all temporall paynes ād chefest cause why they were ordyned is this.

Temporall paynes are profitable for the co 1 men welth / that they maye be ensamples to ler ne y ^e vnfaythfull (which els feare not god) that they maye at the lest for feare of punishment ab stayne from committinge like offences / for if their sinne were vnpunished then shulde all vi ce raigne to the vtter subuersion of the comen welth.

They are also profitable for the faithfull / for 2 they trye and purefye the faith of goddes electe / and subdue and mortefye their carnall mem­bres / that they maye be the more able to serve their brethren and to with stande the vehement assautes of temptacion which are ever at han­de: and also lest they shulde waxe prowed and bost them selues for those giftes which they ha ue receyved of god.

[Page] [...]urthermore they set out and avaunce th [...] 3 glorye or god. For after that we be put in remè­braunce and made to feale oure frayle nature y ^• so continuallye displeaseth god oure father: thē haue we occasion to pondre and compare this trāsitorye payne which we here suffre with tho se enormous trespaces that we haue committed and so to espye the infinite mercye and favou­re of god / and even in oure aduersityes to be cō pelled to prayse god oure mercyfull and tendre father which scourgeth vs so favorablie for tho se grevous offences that haue deserved a thou­sande tymes more punishment.

How be it (to saye truth) there is no man y ^t can tak [...] any such profitte of them that mē fay­ne to [...]e punished in purgatorye. For we ney­ther se it nor heare it / neyther haue we anye mē [...]yon made of it in scripture / that we maye be su re that it so is. Now sith we haue no infallible evidēce / but onlye phantasticall imaginaciōs / it [...] pla [...]ne ynough that there was no such thin­ge orleyned neyther to avaunce goddes honoure nor yet to the profite of the cominaltye or els of goddes electe / for then I am sure that Christ ād all his apostles wolde not hau [...] forgoten to ha­ue remembred vs of it.

NOw let vs se some of rast [...]ls reasōs which [...]e sayeth that fonde felowes laye for them selves to prove that there shulde be no pur­gatorye.

‘They saye / (saieth Rastell) that contricion R [...]stels first argu ment which some calle repentaunce is that which is the verye payment and satisfaccion for sinne / and they saye that when a man committeth a sinne and after is repentaunte therfore / that [Page] god of his goodnesse dooth forgeue him & tha [...] that repentaunce is the onlye satisfaccion that god wolde haue made and done for that sinne. And then sith a man by such repentaunce hath made such payment and satisfaccion for his sin ne as god wolde haue to be made therfore / if thē that man shuld go to purgatorye and haue a new punishment after his deeth that repētaun­ce that he had before shulde be but voyde.’

[...]orsouth I thinke that neyther Rastell Frith euer harde any such reason / neyther yet that a­nye man ever wolde be so fonde as to saye that this argument confuted purgatorye / excepte it were one that were clene purged of his witte before. But whose reason so ever it be / whether Rastels or any other mannes / let vs laye it vn to the touchstone / that is the scripture / to pro­ue whether it be golde or copper / vpright or coun trefayte / truth or vntruth. ‘And to be shorte the first proposicion & Maior of his reason is this that contricion or repentaunce is the verye pay ment and satisfaccion for sinne.’ That is a starcke lye to beginne with all. For if we by all oure contricion / repentaunce / sacrifices and workes (I adde more to helpe him) can fullye paye and satisfye for oure sinnes / then is Christ deed in vayne and mought full well haue spar [...]d his bloude. This can no mā denye / but he that will sette at nought both Christ & al the scripture. Rast [...]. Now marke how he proceadeth. ‘And they saye (sayeth Rastell) that when a man committeth a sinne and after is repentaunte therfore / that god of his goodnesse doth forgeue him / and that that repentaunce is the onlye satisfaccion that god wolde haue to be made and done for that sinne.’

[Page]Thys is the nexte parte of his argumēt & con­tayneth Frith. two lyes at once cheyned to gether / for where he sayeth that when a man committeh a sinne and after is repentaunte therfore that god of his goodnesse doth forgeue him: you must first consider that neyther he nor his turc­ke Gingemin knowe any thinge of christ Now if it were not for Christes sak / all the repentaun ce that man can imagyne coulde not move the goodnesse of god to forgeue one sinne. But by his iustice (where Christes deeth hath not effe­cte) he must nedes condemne. The seconde lye is this / that that repentaunce is the only esatisfac cion that god wolde haue made and done for y ^t sinne / for if this be true / then is oure faith falfe. For oure faith holdeth that if Christ had not dyed for vs / we had all perished. Then procea­deth he as though all that he had sayed before were true / on this maner. ‘And thē (saith he) sith Rastell a man by such repentannce hath made such pay ment and satisfaccion for his sinne as god wol­de haue to be made therfore / If then that man shuld go to purgatorye and haue a newe punis­ment after his deeth / that repentaunce that he had before shulde be but voyde.’ Evē iust / if hea ven fell we shulde catch larkes.

Now let vs se how properlye he answereth Frith. vnto his awne question. And you shall finde mo blasphemyes agenst Christ in his answere then preceded in his argument. Thinke you this mā hath not taken greate paynes?

To prepare him silf vnto his matter he brin Thre lyes atonce. geth in thre lyes in the first chaptre. The first is he saieth that onlye the soule suffereth and not the bodye / and maketh Comingo / whom he fay neth to be a Christē man / to graunte it well and [Page] wyselye. Forsouth this is new lerninge in dede. For if this be true / thē Christes bodye suffered no harme / neyther when he was scourged / nēy­ther when he was crouned with thorne neyther when he was nayled on the crosse. But I repor te me vnto youre awne selues if ye cutte but youre fingre / fele ye no payne? and yet I thinke ye will not saye that ye cutte youre soule From hence forwarde if you se a pore man shyverin­ge for colde in the streate / you maye bidde him walke a knave and bere him in hande that he fealeth no harme / for as this man sayeth his bo dye fealeth no harme / and I promysse you of ho neste that his soule catcheth no colde. But what nede I to make mowordes of this matter sith you maye make experience youre selues? The seconde lye is this. ‘That man was created of god to do him honoure and service.’ For if a mā maye saye the truth man was not made for the entent to be a servaunte and do service. For god hath no neade of oure service but was in as full honoure and as wel served before the worlde begane as he now is. So that his honou re / ioye and service is hole in him silfe / and is by vs neyther employed nor diminished.

But the cause why he made man was this that man shulde haue the fruicyon of his ioye why man was made and honoure. Soch was his goodnes / he made vs not that he shuld haue any pleasure by vs / but that we shulde haue pleasure by him. The thirde lye is this / that no nother creature here in erth doth service and honoure vnto god but onlye man. This is also a starke lye: for all creatures honoure god thorow their creacion & beinge / for y ^e hole glorye of their creacion redou neth in to the honoure of god / and what service [Page] can they do better then so to glorefye god? Ney ther yet lett [...]th he them be idle but worketh tho row them mervelous thinges and all to his glo rye. Fyre at his cōmaunde [...]ēt came doune frō Gene. 19. heaven and burnt [...]oodoma and Eomorra. Ge­nesis. Exo. 14 xix. was that no honoure and service? he Mat. 8. made a stronge ad burninge winde to drye vpp and devide the red see Exodi. xiiij. At his voyce the winde and see were obedient and waxed cal me Mat. viij. was this no honoure and service? But a man maye se that his witte was so pur­ged in purgatorye / that he hath not one droppe lefte to espye any truth at all.

But yet let vs se how he answereth the ar­gument / and severallye examine everye parte. ‘The first parte was: that contricion or repen­taunce is the verye payment and satisfacciō for Rastell. sume. To this he answereth / that when thou ta kest repentaunce & askest mercie of god for thy ne offence: No mā ought to be so folishe to thin­ke that god shulde be restrayned or compelled / but that it is at his libertye whether he will for geue or no.’

I wolde be loth to move the man and aske [...]. him what repentaunce is? for surelye as farre as I can gether by his wordes he wott [...]th no­thinge what it meaneth. But I praye you se how substanciallye he answereth the argument It argueth that contrieyon or repentaunce is y ^• verye payment and satisfaccion for sinne. And to that answereth he neyther yee nor naye / for [...]eare of trappinge (albeit the wordes are clene agenst scripture) But he answereth that when thou takest repentaunce and askest mercye of god for thy sinne: no man ought to be so folish to thinke that god shulde be constrayned or cō ­pelled [Page] to forgeue the. But for all that this is su re yuough that if repeutaunce be the verye pay ment and satisfaccion for sinne (as y ^• argumēt falslye supposeth) that god of his iustice must nedes forgeue me when I repent. For then he [...] ue I hoellye payed him his and maye requyre my right even by his iustice. If thou obiecte y ^• god were then restreyned and compelled / I an­swere naye. But it were rather a greate pleasu­re vnto him to forgeue all men if so they could make satisfaccion vnto his iustice bi tepentaun ce / for he reioyseth not in punishinge vs. Then Rastell. addeth Rastell that it is at his libertye alwaye to execute iustice or mercye at his pleasure. ‘To y ^t I answere / y ^t he hath no pleasure to do agēst Frith. his scripture / but therin hath he fullye opened his pleasure.’ His pleasure is to forgeue frelye al them y ^t beleue in his sonne Christ Iesu / and to condemyne them y ^t beleu [...] not. If Rastell mea­ne on this faciō then graunte we him. But if h [...] vnderstonde that god taketh his pleasure and libe [...] tye in ministringe his mercye and iustice / so y ^t he maye condempne him which hath geven y ^• verye payment & full satisfaccion of sinne (as it seameth he shulde meane seigne he denieth not y ^• first parte of y ^• argument) & agayne saue him that beleved not / then will I saye y ^• Rastel run neth ryotte & taketh his awne pleasure. For god hath no power agenst him silse & his scripture / but loke what he hath promised and y ^• he will performe. And therfore in this eā Rastell proue no purgatorye for all that he grondeth him on so many lyes. But yet is it necessarye that we declare vnto you what is the very [...] sa­tisfaccion for sinne and thē shall we se whether purgatorye maye st [...]nde with it or not.

[Page]Paule sayeth Hebre. x. that Christ with one 8 oblacion hath satisfyed for oure sinnes / for we are halowed (saieth he) by the offeringe of y ^e bo­dye Heb. 10. of Christ Iesu which was once done (vppō the crosse) and with that one oblacion hath he made them which are halowed perfeyte for ever. Now if this be true that we are made perfey t [...] by the oblacyon of his awne bodye vppon the crosse / then is purgatorye in vayne. For if he ha ue so purged vs / what nede we a nother purga­cion? If we be made perfeyte thorow him what nede we after this liffe to be purged? If he haue satisfyed for vs / why seke we a nother satisfac­cion? why leave we the fontayne of livinge wa­ter and seke oure refreshinge out of polluted pooles and speciallye sith the heedspringe is so readye at hande?

If we must make satisfaccion vnto god for 9 oure sinnes / then wolde I knowe why Christ dyed? thinke ye y ^• his bloude was shed in vay­ne? This is no doubte / if there were any other waye vnto the father thē thorow Christes blou de / whether purgatorye or sacrfiices or what thou canst imagine / then was his deeth not ne­nessarye. But alas what vnkindenesse is that so to deiecte the precious bloude of Christ and to sette his gracious favoure at nought? If the re be any meanes by the which I maye satisfye for my sinnes / I neade no redemer nor yet any favoure. But maye calle for my r [...]ght and dutye And so were there to nede of Christes bloude mercye and favoure. But what maye be more blasphemous vnto Christes bloude and his fre redempcyon?

Christ is able fullye and for ever to save thē 10 that come vnto god bi him seinge he ever liveth [Page] to make intercession for vs Hebre. vij. If he b [...] able fullye and for [...]uer to saue vs / whye runne we from him and seke a nother purgatorye? If he make intercession for vs / then is it like that he is no cruell stepfather towardes vs / but ra ther that by al meanes he seaketh oure helth. w Heb. [...] hy flye we from him that offereth him silfe so lo vinglye to vs? whye dare we not put oure trust in him / which whē we were his enemyes vouch safed to dye for vs / and to so reconcyle vs vnto his father. Rom. 5. Rom. 5.

Now maketh he Comingo his almayne to bringe in an ensample / and in confutinge that he thinketh to wynne the felde. But we will she we you that his similitude is nothinge like in de de. But if he wil imagine that it be like / thē doth he not confute it but maketh it stronger. The ensample is this: ‘If I owe the an C. li. of true debte / ād humblye desyre the to forgeue / dischar Rastell. ge and pardō me and thou make me a clere rele se therof then am I not bounde to mak y ^• any other payment or satisfaccion.’To proue y ^• the similitude is nought / ād nothinge like to y ^• pur Frith. posse / is verye easye. For the purpose and first parte of the argument was this: that contriciō or repentaunce is the verye payment and satis­faccion for sinne. Therfore if he will haue it like then must he suppose that this humble request of forgevenes / discharge and pardon is the ve­rye payment and satisfaccion for that. C. li. and therfore vppon y ^• shulde they first haue agreed or els can the example serve for nothinge. Now if he make them like ād imagine that this hum ble desyre of forgeuenesse is the verye payment and satisfaccion for that. C. li. then hath he ma­de a rod for his awne arse / for he shall neuer be [Page] able to avoyde it. But let vs se his answere. ‘In the case that you haue put (sayeth Rastell) Rastell. if you desire me forgeuenesse of that. C. li. yet is it at my libertye and gentlenesse whether I wil forgeue the y ^• hole C. li. or els parte therof.’ Uvel [...]rith. hitte Master Johan. If I shulde paye you that C. li. in good curraunte monie were it yet in you re libertye and gentlenesse whether you wolde forgeue me a parte or the hole therof? Trulye I wolde be loth to be one of youre debtoures / if you be so harde to youre creditours. Belike you haue studied some cautell i the lawe. For I [...]. never harde but that if Iowed you an. C. li. ad gaue you the verye paymēt and satisfaccion the rof / thē shuld I be clene discharged whether ye wolde yee or naye / and neyther nede to thanke youre biberalite nor gentlenes. But in youre ca [...] se the request and desyre of forgeuenes is and must be the verye payment and satisfaccion of that C. li. or els it is nothinge like the argumēt / so that you maye put youre similitude in youre purse tyll a nother place ād tyme where it shall [...]. better agre / wherefore I must nedes cōclude / y ^• if I desyre forgeuenes (this stondinge that the sayed desyre of forgevenes is the verye paymēt and satisfaccion of that C. li. (for els as I sayed it is nothinge like) I am clene discharged ād ne­de neyther to thanke youre liberalite nor gent­lenesse.

Now where you obiecte the recompensse for the losse of tyme and damages / hurte and hinde [...]aunce that you haue had for the none payment of that C. li. and so forth / that cā not be applyed vnto god and the renussion of oure sinnes. For there is no soch losse of tyme / damage / hurte or hinderaunce towardes god. For [...]e neyther hur [Page] te nor hinder him although we never aske forge uenesse but be dampned perpetuallye. So that it is oure profyte to aske it / and oure hurte and hinderaunce if we aske it not. If Iowe a man xx. pounde y ^• lēger I kepe it the more is my pro­fyte & the more his losse: but god receaveth vs younge / he receaveth vs at mannes state / he re­ceaveth vs olde / and thinketh it no losse or hur­te then to receave vs / for he sayeth by his pro­phete.

The wykednes of the wyked shall not hurte 11 him in whate daye so ever he tourne from his vngodlinesse Ezechielis. xxxiij. But it shuld su­relye Eze. 33 hurte him if he shulde broyle in purgato­rye for it. wherfore eyther there is no soch payn full purgatorye / or els can not I se how the pro phete / which speaketh these wordes in y ^• person of god / shuld be true. 12

I shall poure vppon you clene water (saieth Eze. 36 god the father) and you shalbe clensed from all youre iniquytyes Ezechie. xxxvj. If we be pur­ged from all / what nede another purgatorye? nede we more purginge when all are clensed?

I will surelye converte Iuda and turne Is­rahell 13 vnto me / and I will purefye them from Hiere. 33. all their iniquytyes wherwith they haue of­fended me Hieremie. xxxiij. If he purefye them from all / what shulde they do in purga­t [...]rye?

I wilbe mercifull vnto their wykednes / and their sinnes will I no more remembre Hiere­mie. 14 xxxj. Hebreo. viij. If he will not remembre Hier. 31. oure sinnes any more / thē maye we be sure that he will not frye vs in y ^• fyre of purgatorye for oure sinnes.

[Page] NOw let vs se his seconde argumēt which The secō ­de argu­ment Rastel is in the fourth chaptre / and is surelye fon de / how be it his soluciō is yet more folysh. The some of his argument is this.

Dan was made and ordeyned to haue an in finite beinge / therfore after this mortalite and deeth he must haue ifinite ioye or infinite payne

I will put you a like argument. A man is or Fr [...]th. deyned in this worlde to be a kinge or a subiecte therfore after he is borne he is ever a kinge or [...]s ever a subiecte. Now maye this be false / for paradventure he maye be borne a subiecte and after made kinge or els he maye be borne a kin ge and after deposed and made a subiecte. Ther fore this argument holdeth not formallye. But it holdeth on this maner / as I shulde saye to an ape: thou must nedes be an ape or an asse / which now is true. But if I shuld saye the ve­rye ☞ same wordes to Master Iohan Rastell / I thinke he wolde be angrye and saye that it we re false. And I suppose oure scolemen will saye that he lyeth / ād put him an ensample of the en­ [...]auntes that dye with out christndome / whiche (as the scolemē saye) shall never haue ioye nor payne. But I will graunte him his argumēt to se how properlye he wil confute it.

Now marke his answere which stondeth in the. v. chaptre

‘There are degrees in sinnes / some sinnes are Rastell. greate and some greater / and therfore must the­re be degrees in punishment / some punishment is greate and some greater. [...] for youre ple asure I [...]m content to graunte you this to But Frith. els were it a matter worthye disputacion what now?’

‘ [...] that a man (saieth Rastel) here in erth Rastell. [Page] hath committed a greate sinne and offence and taken repentaunce wherbye the sinne is forge­ven (marke that he beinge ignoraunt of Christ / saieth thorow repentaunce the sinne is forge­ven) and yet hath not taken such suffycyent repentaunce therfore / nor had any suffycyent punishment which shulde make a full payment and satisfacciō for that sinne / and dyeth before any condigne or full satisfacciō made / god must then of his rightwysnes ordeyne a place of pur gatorye / where his soule shall haue a further pu nishment to make a condigne and full satis fac­cion for that sinne / and so to be purged and pu­refyed before it shalbe able and worthy to be ad mitted to receave the eternall ioye in heaven.’

First brethren you must graunte / that we Frith haue a Christ or no Christ: a redemer or no re [...] mer: a iustefyer or no iustefyar. If there be none such (as Rastell with his turcke Gingemin sup­pose) then al the repentaunce in the worlde coul de not satisfye for one synne / but whosocuer cō mitted a sinne shulde be dampned therfore. So that Rastell speaketh and seyth al in diminu­tyues / for where he shulde of truth spye hell / the re espyeth he but purgatorye. And where he shuld saye that al sinners (if they stick not to Christes bloude) shall be dampned eternallye / there saieth he that they shalbe punished in pur gatorye. And to be shorte / if Rastell saye truth thē is Christ deed in vayne: If he saye not truth why stick you to his reason? But paraduentu­te thou that knowest Christ wilt saye (as manie do) that Christes deeth and redempcion serueth the but for originall sinne / or at most for those sinnes that thou committedst before baptyme. To that I answere with. S. Ioan.

[Page]Children / this do I wryte vnto you y ^• ye sin 25 ne not. And if any mā sinne / yet we haue an ad vocate with the father / Iesus Christ / which is rightwyse. And he it is that obtayneth grace for oure sinnes / not for oure sinnes onlye / but also for the sinnes of all the worlde. To whom wrote. S. Ioā. this epistle? Thinke you that he 1. Ioan. 2. wrote not vnto the christen and them that were all readye baptized? And yet he sayed if any mā sinne / we haue an aduocate with the father / Ie sus Christ which is rightwys [...]: and he it is that obtayneth grace for oure sinnes. Loo he adnum breth him [...] also: for he sayeth we haue an ad vocate: and sayeth agayne / for oure sinnes. [...]e maye se that he meaneth not onlye originall sin ne / neyther yet the sinnes done before baptyme: for I doubte not but he was baptized when he wrote this pistle / and yet sayed he: if we sinne (meaninge after baptyme or when so euer it be) we haue an advocate with the father / Ihesus Christ / this is. S. Ioans lerninge: he knew no nother remedye if we felle in to sinne / but onlye Christ. Not withstandinge oure prelates haue pactized further / for they saye: if any man sin­ne he shall lye in the paynes of purgatorye / vn­till he be delyuered thence by masse pence / the popes pardon or certen other suffragyes / but not with out Monye you maye be sure. 16

Christ saieth (no man cometh vnto the father Jo [...]. 13 but thorow me Iohan. xiii. for (sayeth he) I am the waye. yes lorde / oure prelates haue espyed a nother waye / which although it be more payn full vnto the poore / yet is it more profitable for the prelates.

Come vnto me all ye that laboure and are 17 laden and I will ease you saieth oure savioure Mat. 11 [Page] Christ Iesu. Matthei. xi. wilt thou sende vs lor de in to purgatorye? forsouth there is litle ease / if the fyre be so hote as oure prelates haue fay­ned it.

It is even I that put out thyne iniquytyes 18 for myne awne sake saieth god the father / and Esa [...]e. 43. thy sinnes will I no more remembre Estate. [...]. Ergo then he putteth them not a waye for broy­linge in purgatorye. He addeth also that he will no more remembre oure sinnes: calle ye that no remembraunce to cast vs in to purgatorye for them?

[...]hom god predestinated / them he called / and 19 whom he called / them he iustefyed: and what did Rom. 8. he with them then? Did he cast them in to pur­gatorye there to be clensed? forsouth the apostle maketh no mencion therof / but addeth immedi atlye / whom he iustefyed them he glorefyed Romano. vii [...]. wherfore let not vs put such ob­stacles and be v [...]kinde vnto the gracious fa­voure of god.

Besides that Paule forbiddeth vs to be ca refull for them that slepe (that is to saye for the 20 deed) as they that haue no hope. But surelye if he had knowne of any purgatorye / he wolde ha ue bene carefull for them / sith they fayne them 1. Thes. 4 in such miserable tourmentes. Now seinge he had occasion to make mencyon of the deed / and spake not one worde of purgatorye / it is play­ue ynough y ^t he knew nothinge of it or els was he verye negligent to ouerhippe it. But yet had I lever saye that purgatorye were but a phantasye of mannes imagi­nacyō / then to ascribe such forget tefulnes or negligence vnto that Apostle. ☜

[Page] The thirde reason that Rastell allegeth is in The thirde argu­mente y ^•. vi. chaptre / y ^t summe is this. ‘There are degres of ioye in heauen / and degres of payne in hell. And therfore god maye passe euerye mā and geue hym accordynge to hys deserte / other more or lesse and neuer nede purgatorye’. well letvs graunte these degres for Rastels pleasu­re although the questyon be so dysputable that I am sure he can not defende it. what foloweth on thys? forsouth he bringeth in proper exem ples if they coulde serue for the purpose. But let vs passe ouer to hys solucyon whych is in the ende of the seuenth chaptre.

‘When a man sayeth Rastell is infected whith Rastell a greate mortall sinne and so departe / then hys soule ought not to do seruice in heauē vnto god because it is putrefyed with that foule sinne. But if that man had taken the medicyne of ful repentaunce in hys lyffe / that medycyne wolde haue restored hym agayne to hys soule helth ād vertue’ ‘(But here you must remēbre that chryst Frith is deed in [...]ayne / for if repentaunce be the medy cyne that restoreth agayne the helth ād vertue of the soule / what neadeth Christ)’ Now forth ‘But if he haue taken (sayeth Rastell) some re­pentaunce Rastell for that sinne and not suffycyent / ād had not sufficyēt tyme to make sufficyēt satis­faccy on therfore / yet by the takinge of that me­dicyne of repentaunce / that sinne is expelled ād gone / and the soule of that syckenesse and sinne is clerelye hole / but yet the spottes and tokens of the sinne whych ys a deformyte to the soule do slylie remayne tyll the soule haue a tyme to be purged from those tokēs and spottes to ma ke it pure and clene of that deformyte.’ Frith

This man is euer in one supposiciō which [Page] is both false and iniuryous vnto the precyous bloude of Christ. I wondre who taught hym y ^t conclusyon / and whye he graunteth so sone vn to it / for he wolde not haue it graūted that the­re were a god / neyther that the soule was im­mortall (although they were both true) vntyll he had proued it (as he thought him selfe) by good naturall reason. But as for thys that ys starcke false (that ys to saye) that repentaunc [...] whyle he excludeth chryst / doth satisfie for oure sinne / he neuer putteth in questyon / but graun­teth it by ād bye / be like the turckes haue such an opinion. But let hym go wyth hys turcke / and let vs christen men graunte nothinge con­trarye to the scripture / but euer captiuate ou­re reason vnto that / for it is the infallible rea­son and wysdom of god / and passeth oure rea­son farre [...]

THe fourth reason is propounded in the The fou­rth argu­ment viii. chaptre. whych is thys / y ^t the soule vnpurged maye do some meane and lowe ser­vice to god in heauen / though it be not the hiest Ephe. 5. and best. whych thynge ys false and agenst scrypture. Ephe. 5. Cant. 4. But let vs se what Canti. 4 [...] answere he maketh vnto it. Hys answere be­ginneth Rastell in the. ix. chaptre / ād the summe is this

Heauen ys so pure and clene of nature. that yt must expell all maner of impuryte and vnclennes / neyther can yt suffer any thinge the rin / that ys of any maner vnclennesse or euell / or other thynge vnpleasaunte. So now it folo­weth that when a man hath committed a mor­tall sinne & after taketh repentafice by y ^t which he is healed of y ^t foulè infi [...]nite (Se how he harpeth all of one stringe whych ys also so far re out of tune that I wondre how any mā can [Page] a byde hym. For yf I can heale myne infyrmy­te thorow repentaunce wherfore dyed chryst? Rastell But yet (sayeth he) the spottes and tokens remayne for lacke of full satysfaccyon. Frith

I answere that yt remayneth euerye whytte / synne / spottes / tokens / and all together excepte Chryst had taken yt from of vs / thorow hys [...] and bytter passyon. Therfore sayth Ra stell) god of hys iustyce maye not condempne Rastell his soule to eternall payne in hell for that often ce whych ys purged and putte aways. wher [...] wyth ys yt pnrged and put a waye?

There ys no remyssyon of synne wythout Frith. 21. bloude. Hebre. 9. If ther be no remyssyon wyth out bloude / what shall repentaunce do where the bloude of Chryst ys excluded? yee or what Hebre. 9. shall thy purgatorye do / for there ys no bloud shed. So ys there nothynge that taketh awaye sinne but onlye the bloude of Chryst Iesu / shed for oure redempcyon

And yet sayth Rastell) god by hys iustyce and by his dyscrete wysdō and goodnes ought Rastell not immediatlie to receaue / that soule in to that clene and most pure place in heauen to accom­panye the pure aungelles. &c̄. No marye Frith I warante the / be not afrayde of that for ney ther Gyngemyn thy companyon nor thou neyther shall entre in there / eyther immediatlye or medyatlye / yf ye exclude Chryst as ye haue done hetherto / no not yf ye had taken all the re pentaunce in the worlde / and wolde therto ima gyne a [...] many purgatoryes as wyll pesen in to a monkes coul [...]

But yt ys chryst the lambe of god that ta 22 keth awaye the synne of the worlde. Ioan. 1. It ys he y ^• hath purged oure synne [...] now sit­teth [...]. [Page] on the right hande of the father Hebrew. / Heb. 1. It is he that hath purged oure sinne and hath made vs in his awne sight and in the sight of his father / with out spotte or wrincle Ephesio. j. Ephe. 1. Al be it in oure awne sight we finde oure sel­ves 1. Ioan. 1. sinners. j. Joannis. j. But he maketh Roma. 4. vs blessed and rightwise and imputeth not oure sinnes vnto vs Romano­rum. iiij. Then what nedeth purgatory? ☜

THe fifte argument that he bringeth agēst The fifte argument Rastell purgatorye is touched in his tenth Chap­tre / the somme is this. It shuld seme conveniēt that this purgatorye (if there were one) shuld be in erth: partlye because the bodyewhich offen­deth with the soule might be purged with the soule: and partly [...] to be a good ensample to all men lyvinge to put them in feare to do any like offence / and so shuld cause many to abstayne from committinge any such like offence and sin ne / or els where shuld purgatorye be?

This reason hath no greate pith. Notwith­stondinge Frith. if it were well prosequuted / it wold be to harde for Rastell to avoyde it. For this is no formall argument / it is mete that the bodye which offendeth with the soule shuld be purged with the soule / ergo purgatorye must be vppon the erth. For god maye ioyne the bodye and sou le to gether agayne after they be departed and so punish them to gether although purgatorye were not in erth / even where so ever it be. And therfore thus me thinketh it shulde well folow.

The bodye was folow and pertener with the soule in committinge the cryme and sinne / 23 and shal also be partetaker of the glorye which [Page] is prepared for them that loue god. wherfore it is reason if the soule shuld be purged and puni­shed in purgatorye: y ^t y ^• bodye shuld also suffer with him in purgatorie: fayne y ^t place of purga torie where you will / in heauen / in erth or in hel But wotte ye what Rastell wolde here saye vnto me? for south euen as he did in the first cha pitre of the thirde dialoge. that is to saye: he wolde stoutelye affirme that the bodye suffreth nother well nor woo / ioye nor payne / good nor euell / and therfore it nedeth not go to purgato­rye. And by that reason it is folye that the bo­dye shulde go eyther to heauē or hell. for it ney ther fealeth pleasure nor payne. this is newe lerninge in dede. But I thinke there is no chri sten man so folish as to beleue him.

And as for the seconde poynte that it shul­de be a good ensample to put men in feare for cōmittinge such trespaces / it were sone answe red For we ought not to abstayne from euel be cause of the punishment that foloweth the cryme but onlye for the loue that we haue vn­to god with out any respecte eyther of saluacyō or of damnacyon. If thou abstayne for feare / so arte thou vnder the lawe and vnder condemna cion: The lawe of god and the lawe of man are farre vnlike. for the lawe of man is fulfilled by the exterioure acte although the harte be ferre from it. As if I owe a man. xx. pounde and be compelled by the lawe to paye him at a certen daye: if I them paye it albeit myne harte be ne uer so grugginge and euill willinge / yet haue I fulfilled the lawe so that there shall no processe or sentence passe agenst me. But goddes lawe requireth a thinge to be done with a wel willin ge harte / and euen for pure loue. for if thou do [Page] it for feare or vn willinglye that shall be impu­ted vnto the for sine. If thou do it for feare / thē workest thou not of loue / but rather hatest both the thinge that thou dost / ād also the lawe that constrayneth the vnto it. And if thou do it vn­willingly then willest thou to do the contrarye / and so woldest thou that there were no such la we neyther yet any god that shuld iudge the in so doinge. And sith god iudgeth the after thyne herte & wil / then must he nedes condēne the. for thou willest contrarye vnto his lawe and will: yee and willest in thyne harte contrarye to that thou doest in thyne out warde dede.

Now let vs se his solucyon which is in the xi. chaptre and so folish / that if it were not for the greate length of the chaptre / for losse of ty­me and for the more cost in prentinge / I wolde surelye haue answered vnto it at length / euen that he shulde haue bene ashamed of him silfe. But to be shorte we will touch some of his wordes. The first parte of the argumēt which he entēdeth to answere to is this: that it shuld seme conuenient that purgatorie shulde be he­re on erth because the bodye which offendeth with the soule shulde be purged with the soule This reason is of no value as I haue shewed you before. But what sayeth Rastell [...]

That reason (saieth Rastell) proueth not on Rastelss [...] lucion lye that there is no purgatorye / but also that there shulde be neyther heaucn nor hell. for if a man haue lyued so vertuouslye in erth / that he ought to be saued and go to the ioyes of he­auen (let vs pardon him this lye, for the prophe te saieth that no man shall be iustefyed in the sight of god if he entre in to iudgement with Psal. 14 [...] vs psalme, 143) And yet did neuer meritorious [Page] arte but onlye when the soule was ioyned with the bodye / thē shulde he neuer be rewarded but here in erth whyle his soule is ioyned wyth the bodie. Here maie ye perceaue what Rastell thin [...]. keth of heauen and hell / euen thus that y ^t bodie shall neuer come in heauē nor hell / which poynt I will touch more largelye a none. Fyrst where Comingo in his argumēt saieth / y ^t it shuld sea­me conuenient for purgatorie to be vppon erth there sayeth Rastell that he wolde take awaye the libertye / prerogatyue / and auctorite of god. As by example / yf I wolde saye / It shuld seame conuenyēt that the bysshope of londons palace shulde be in london / partiye because it is y ^• che­fest cytye of his diocesse / ād partlye because it is nye the courte wherto he maye the better resor te to gette further promocyon / there wold Ra­stell saye by and by that I toke awaye y ^• bissho pes libertye / prerogatiue / and auctoryte that he might not sette it where he wolde. belyke thys man hath droncke of a merye cuppe. He after­meth Rastell [...] also y ^t this argument taketh awaye both heauen and hell. why so? Because he supposeth it conuenient that purgatorie shulde be here vp pon erth? [...] it he saye yt ys conuenient / yet sayeth he not that it must nedes [...]. Naye / but there is a nother thinge y ^t Rastels sore yies can not abyde. what is that? verelye for he added y ^• it were most conuenyent that the bodye whych is partetaker in comittinge y ^t crime / shulde also be purged & punished with y ^• soule. And y ^t as ye know plucketh Rastell by y ^t berde / for he went a boute to proue y ^t cōtrarie in y ^• first chaptre / y ^t the bodie hath neyther payne nor pleasure. &c̄. But how shuld this take awaye heauē ād hell? for south on thys maner. Rastell thinketh not [Page] that god can and will ioyne the bodye agayne with y ^t soule after this trāsitorye liffe that they maye together receaue ioye or payne for y ^t pas­seth his naturall philosophie. But thus he ima geneth / when the bodie ād soule are once depar ted / then saye they adieu for euer and adaye. Therfore (thinketh he) if god will punish them in hell together / or saue them together in hea­uen / then must he take them whyles they are he re lyuynge in erth. And so thys supposycyon y ^• the bodye must suffre with the soule (after Ra­stels lerninge) must proue that heauen and hell be here in erth or els there can be none. Se this lerned man y ^t wold proue purgatorye by ^• good phylosophye [...]

The seconde cause / that purgatorye shuld be a good example to the lyuynge to put them in feare to do any lyke offence / is not soluted of Rastell / but I haue soluted yt before ād will yet satysfye you agayne because Rastell leueth yt out. we haue here in the worlde / Moses and the prophetes that is the olde testament / yee and al so christ and his apostles which we call the new testament / now if we beleue not these / thē shall we not surelye beleue although we had purga­torye and hell to amōge vs. And this maye well be gathered of Christes awne wordes luce. xvi. [...]. 16. where he brought in the parable of the rich mā and lazarus / for the rych man beynge in pay­nes desyred Abraham to send lazarus vnto his fyue brothren to warne them that they myght not come in to that fyre: Abraham answered a­gayne / y ^t they had / Moses & the prophetes. And added / let thē heare thē. Thē sayed y ^• tych man Naye father Abrahā / but if any of thē y ^• are de parted appeare vnto thē / thē will they beleue it. [Page] And Abrahā concludeth on this maner: If they beleue not Moses and the prophetes / no more will they beleue if any of the deed shuld rise a­gayne. And therfore maye I like wyse conclude That if they beleue not / neyther yet feare the paynes which Moses and the prophetes / ye and christ [...] his apostles haue prophesied to falle on y ^• vnfaithfull / thē will they not beleue for feare of the paynes of purgatorye.

Now to the last poynte where purgatorye Rastell shulde be / he answereth as you shal heare. First that it is a folish question (for he can not answe re vnto it by his philosophye) And th [...] he saieth that no man can tell / neyther the place neyther Frith yet the maner of the payne. Here maketh he. S. Thomas yee and all oure scolemen foles by cra ste: partelye because they take vppon them to answere vnto this question which he calleth fo lysh / and partelye because they fullye determe that the place of purgatorye is the thirde place in hell / and also assigne fyre to be the maner of the payne. And agayne in this last parte he pro­veth them double foles. Once because they stou telye affirme that thinge which no man can tell (as Rastell sayeth) And agayne because they re strayne god of his lib ertye that assigne any pla ce and make him of lesse auctorite then an in fe­rior iudge / which hath no place assigned him / but ma [...]e do execucion and punish the gytlye in what place he will. I wondre that oure scole­men maye abyde this felow.

And then he saieth that purgatorye is in a Rastell place limitatyue. And wher so euer god doth li­mitt the soule to be purged there is the [...] ue place of that soule and there is the purgato­ [...] of that soule. So that a man maye gather [Page] [...] Rastell that the soules be not limited to one place to be purged and punished. And therto a­greeth also his similitude of y ^• iudge which as­signeth one to be punished in one place / and [...] nother in a nother place / even at his pleasure. If such gere had come from beyonde the see it shuld sone haue bene condemned although it had not bene halfe so grevous agenst oure sco­lemen. But let this passe as it is well worthy / [...] let vs se and examine more of this newfangled philosophye.

NOw are we comen vnto the sixte argumēt which beginneth in the. [...]. chaptre / y ^• effe­cte is this

Bepentaunte is the full payment and satis­faccion Rastels si xte argu­ment of sinne and bringeth remission / therfore as sone as repentaunce is taken / god of his iu­stice must geue temission / and so there ought to be no purgatorye.

This argument is nothinge worth / for the Frith. first parte as we haue often proved is false For if repentaunce were y ^• full paymēt and verye sa tisfaccion for sinne / then died Christ in vayne. Notwithstondinge if he graunte this first par­te to be true / neyther he nor all his folowes shal be able to solute this argument whyle they ly­ve. But because we will be shorte / let vs pas­se ouer to his answere which is in y ^•. xiii. chap.

In solutinge this argument he groundeth Rastell. him on two lyes atonce / y ^• first is y ^• ‘god never geveth remission excepte he se in vs a conveniēt cause countrepaysinge his iustice.’

What cause founde he in y ^• mā y ^• was brought Frith vnot him sicke of y ^• palsaye / to whom he sayed: Mat. [...]. be of good cōforte (sonne) thy sinnes are forge­ven y ^•? Mat. ix. Mar. ii. Luc. v. what cause foun [Page] de he in the thefe that was crucy fyed with him / but y ^• he had bene anvnthrifte all his liffe lon­ge? And yet even the same daye that he suffred with Christ was he partetaker of ioye with him in paradyse Lu. xxiii. where was purgatorie thē [...]. [...] where was the punishment that he shulde haue suffered for his enormytyes? If any man shulde suffer in purgatorye / it is like y ^t this these shul­de haue done it: But he went from deeth to liffe [...] came in purgatorye / wherfore I maye [...] y ^• no man shall come there / if there were any. What cause I praye you doth Paule assi­gne as touchinge oute redēpcion & remission of oure imne? for south no nother but y ^t we were m [...]tched sinners & y ^• verye enemyes of god [...]. v. For saieth paule / if whē we were his enemies we were [...] vnto god thorow y ^• deeth of [...] his sōne / moch more now we are recōcyled / shall we be saued by his liffe. So y ^• in vs is no maner [...] of remission but onlye miserye and sinns

But the hole cause of y ^• remission of oure sin 25 nes [...]d of oure saluaeyō / is the bloude of [...] which hath fullye [...] y ^• iustice of god the father / and hath pacefyed his wrath towar des vs that beleue. He is y ^• verye purgatorye for all faithfull which hath alreadye purged ou [...]. 1. [...] sitteth on the right hand of y ^• father Heb. I. The secōde lye is this / ‘he saieth y ^t god Rastell of his iustice must geue to everye thinge his aw ne / which awne is the thinge that it deserveth to haue.’ If this were true then shuld not one of [...]. vs entre the enheritaunce of heaven / for we ha­ue [...]. [...]. everye one of vs deserved deeth and damp­natyon. For as Paule sayeth Romanorum. iii. we haue [...] sinned and want the glorye which before god is alowed. But we are frelye iuste­fyed thorow his grace by the faith that is in [Page] thrist Iesu. If it be frelye thorow his grace / thē is it not [...] oure owne deservinge / for then gra­ce were no grace. And contrarye wyse if it be by oure awne deservinge / then is it not of gra­ce / for then deseruinge were no deservinge Ro­manorum. Rom. 11 xi. But the truth is this / that god of his mercye had promised vnto oure forefathers his deare sonne Christ that he shuld deliuer thē from all their iniquityes and that all the naci­ons of the worlde shulde be blessed in him Gen xii. This seed he promised of his mercye and fa Gene. 12 voure / whom also he sente in the tyme that he Gala. 4 had ordened Galata. 4. not for oure awne deser­vinges / but for his truthes sake and to fulfill y ^• he had promised. This Christ is become oure 1. Cor. 1 right wysnes. 1. Corin. 1. so that y ^t iustice of god is not to geue vs that we oure selues haue de­served (as Rastell lyeth) but to clothe vs with a nother mannes iustice (that is Christes) and to geue vs that which christ hath deserved for vs And this iustice of god thorow the faith of Ie­su cometh vnto all and vppon all them that be­leue Roma. iii. Now marke a [...]. Rom. 3

Christ humbled him silfe & was made obediēt 26 vnto y ^• deeth: even to y ^• deeth of the crosse Phi. Phil. 2 ii. This obedience and deeth was not for him 2. Cor. [...] silfe but for vs / for he alone suffered and dyed for vs all. ii. Corin. v. Now sith he was obediēt vnto the deeth for vs / that is even as good as though we oure selues had bene obedient ever rye man for him silfe vnto the deeth. And sith he dyed for vs / that is even as god as though we had dyed oure selues for oure awne sinnes. [...] wilt thou haue more of a man thē y ^• he be obediēt vnto god y ^• father evēvnto deeth / yee & dye for his sinnes / wilt thou yet thrust him in to purgatorye?

[...] bringeth hein an answere [Page] which is so confused / intricate & longe y ^• it we­re not onlye folishnes to solute it / but also moch lost laboure & cost to [...]herse it / wherfore I let it passe / for everye childe shall easelye solute it sith his [...]undacion and first stone is taken from him. But yet one thinge is necessarye to be tou­ched. He goeth aboute to proue his purposse with an ensample on this maner.

‘If I do bete thy servaunte or apprentisse & [...]. do mayme him / wherbye thou doest loose his ser vis [...]: and also y ^t this servaunte duringe his li [...]e is not able to gette his lyvinge. If so be y ^t thou do forgeue me y ^• offence done vnto the in that thou hast lost his service: yet am I bounde to make a nother satisfaccion vnto thy servaunt for y ^• hurte I haue done him / which is y ^• cause of y ^• hinderaunce of his lyvinge. And in like ma ner if I haue offended god & my neyghboure / [...]lbeit god forgeue me his deale / yet can he not of iustice forgeue me my neyghboures d [...]ale to / but yet must I make satisfacciō unto my neygh boure. Now in case I wolde & be not able to sa tisfye my neyghboure / & yet he forgeue me not / thē must I suffer in y ^• paynes of purgatorye for it: and those paynes shall stonde my neighboure in profyte for parte of his purgatorye if he co­me there or cls to y ^• encrease of his ioye if he go to heaven.’ This is the summe / but he speaketh it in manye moo wordes. Now because he hath touched y ^• matter of satisfa [...]ion I will shewe you my minde therin. [...]rith.

There are two maner of satisfaccions. The Satisfac­ [...]ō to god one is to god: the tother to my neyghboure. To god can not all y ^• worlde make satisfaccion for one cryme. In so moch y ^t if everye grasse of the grounde were a mā / even as holye as ever was [Page] Paule or Peter & shuld praye vnto god al their lyves longe for one cryme / yet coulde they not make satisfacciō for it. But it is onlye y ^• bloude of Christ y ^t hath made full satisfacciō vnto god for all such crymes Hebre. vij. or cls were there no remedye but we shuld all perysh: as I haue proved before. And he y ^t seketh any other satis­facciō Hebreo. [...] towardes god then Christ oure savioure / he doth wronge vnto his precious bloude.

There is a nother satisfaccion which is vnto Satisfa [...] ­cion to my neyghbou re my neyghboure whom I haue offend [...]d. As if I haue takē any mānes god from him. For then am I bounde to pacefye him other by restoringe it agayne or els by other meanes as we two cā agre. If I haue diffamed him / then am I boun­de to pacefie him / & to restore him vnto his good fame agayne / & so forth. But if I be not able to satisfye him / then must I knowledge my silfe gyl tye & desyre him to forgeue me / & then is he boun de to forgeue me / or els shall he never entre in to heaven. For god hath taught vs to praye. Mat. vj. y ^t he shulde forgeue vs / as we forgeue them Mat. 6. y ^• trespace agenst vs / so y ^t if we forgeue not one a nother then will not god forgeue vs. To this Mat. 18 well agreeth the parable Mat. xviij. The king­dom of heaven is likened vnto a certayne kinge which wolde take accomptes of his servauntes And when he had begunne to reken one was brought vnto him / which ought him ten thou­sand talentes: but when he had nought to paye y ^• lorde cōmaunded him to be solde / & his wyffe & his children / & all y ^t he had / & paymēt to be ma­de. The servaunte fell doune & besought him sa yenge: Sir geue me respite / & I will paye it eve rye whitte. Then had y ^• lorde pytye on the ser­vaunte & lowsed him & forgaue him the debte. [Page] The same servaunte went out & founde one of his felowes / which ought him an. C. pence. And layed hondes on him & toke him by y ^• throte / sa­yēge paye y ^t thou owest. And his felow fell dou ne & besought him sayenge: haue pacience with me & I will paye y ^• all: & he wold not / but went & cast him in to preson tyll he shulde paye y ^• deb­te. Uvhē his other felowes sawe what was do­ne they were verye sorye and came & tolde vnto their lorde all y ^t had happened. Then y ^e lorde call led him & sayed vnto him. O evell servaunte / I forgaue y ^• all y ^t debte / because thou praydest me: was it not mete also y ^t thou shuldest haue had compassion on thy felowe / even as I had pitye on the? And his lorde was wroth and deliuered him to the gaolers / tyll he shuld paye all y ^t was due to him. So like wyse shall youre hevenlye father do vnto you if you will not forgeue with youre hartes [...]ech one to his brother their tres­paces. Here mayest thou se y ^t if you forgeue ha [...] relye y ^• smale debte or offence y ^• thy neyghbou­re hath done agēst the / thē will thy hevenlye fa­ther forgeue the / the hole & greate debte y ^t thou owest him / for y ^• which thou arte well worthye to be damned. And so is it more profitable for y ^• to forgeue it than y ^t thy neyghboure shuld broy le in purgatorye for it / as Rastell fayneth. And cōtrarye wyse if thou forgeue him not / thē shall not god forgeue the thy greate debte / but thou shalt surelye be dāpned / & so shal not thy neygh boures purgatorye profyte y ^• (be it in case there were one and y ^t he shuld go thyther) but it is ra ther the cause of thy dampnacion: but this can not Rastell se.

NOw be we come vnto the seventh reason Rastels se vēth argu ment which is in y ^•. xiiij. chap. The argumēt is this. ‘God is y ^• verye owner of all / ād thy neygh­boure hath no properte / but as a servaunte to [Page] god / as but to make accompte to god.’ Thefore whē thou doest an offence to god & to thy neygh boure / whē god forgeveth it thou nedest no no­ther satisfacciō vnto thy neyghboure And to sta blish his reasō he bringeth in a similitude which is nothinge to y ^• purpose. The similitude is this I put case thou haue a servaunte whō thou put test in trust to occupie for y ^• / to make bargaynes chaunge & sell to thy vse / to take bondes & agay ne to make aquitaunces & releses i his awne na­me. If this servaunte sell parte of thy ware & ta ke an obligacion for y ^• paymēt of. xx. pounde / if thou afterwarde knowinge of this / eyther for lo ve or some other cause w [...]lt make vnto y ^e sayed debtoure a clere relese: I suppose no mā will de nye but y ^t this debtoure is fullye discharged of this. xx. pounde / and is not bounde by any iusti­ce to make any satiffaccion eyther vnto thy ser­vaunte or to any other mā. For thou arte y ^• ve­ [...]ye owner therof / and thy servaunte had but y ^• occupacyon as to geue the accoumptes therof.

This similitude cā not well be applyed vnto Frith. god & mā. For albe it is true y ^• all oure substaun Agge [...]. [...]. ce pertaineth vnto god at it is writē Agg. ij. gol de is myne & siluer is myne: yet hath not god ge­ven it vs to occupie it for his profyte & vse (as y ^• servaunte doth for his master) but onlye y ^• we shuld vse his giftes for y ^• profyte of oure neygh boure & to the vse of y ^• cōgregaciō. 1. Co. 12. And 2. Co [...]. 12 where as he induceth y ^t when god forgeveth vs which is the principalle parte / y ^t thou nedest no nother satisfacciō to thy neyghboure. I answe­re / y ^• god forgeveth no mā which hath offended his neyghboure / vulesse y ^• he make satisfaccion vnto his neigboure / if he be able but if he be not able / yet is he bounde to knowlege his faute vn to his neyghboure / & thē is his neyghboure boū de vnd y ^• payne of dāpnaciō to forgeue him / so y ^t [Page] god [...] forgeveth vntill thy neyghboure be pacefyed in case y ^• cryme extēde vnto thy neygh boure This soluteth both y ^• reason & also impro veth y ^• similitude. Now let vs declare his solu­cion Rastell. [...] so [...].

‘God of him silfe hath two powers: One is an absolute power / & a nother is an ordinarye power. The absolute power is the auctorite y ^• god hath ouer all thinge in y ^• world, by y ^• he ma ye geue to everye creature what pleaseth him / & also forgeue everye offence done by any creatu­re at his pleasure with out any cause. And by this maye he forgeue both y ^• cryme done towar des him silfe / & also towardes my neyghboure. But by his ordinarye power he doth euerye thinge by ordre of iustice ād equite. And by this can he not forgeue the offence done to him and my neyghboure with out satisfaccion.’

Now wolde I fayne wete / whether Rastell [...]. imagine y ^• god by his absolute power maye sa­ve Goddes y ^• vnfaithfull & dāpne the faithfull If he saye absolute power. Naye / thē maye I cōclude y ^• Rastels diffinicyō is false where he sayeth: y ^t god by his absolute power maye geue to everye creature what pleaseth him / & also forgeue everye offence done by any creature at his pleasure with out any cau­se. If he saye yee / thē must I cōclude y ^t god hath power to do cōtrarye to his scripture / for y ^• scripture sayeth: y ^• he that beleveth and is baptized shalbe saved / but he y ^• beleveth not shalbe con­dempned [...]. 16. Mar. xvj. Now if he graunte me y ^• he hath power to do agenst his scripture (sith his scripture is y ^• truth & his awne worde / thē must it nedes folow y ^t he hath power to do agēst his truth: & consequentlye he hath power to be fal­ [...] / & so to sinne. And sith he hath power agenst [Page] his awne worde / and y ^t worde his sonne / the [...] must we graunte him power agenst his sonne / & ven to make him a lyar where he sayed y ^• for­sayed textes Marci. xvj. And sith his sonne is god / then hath god power to do agenst god and Mat. 12. so can not his kingdom endure. Matthei. xij.

Furthermore / if I mighte be bolde with Ra stell / I wold aske him this questiō / whether god haue not an absolute iustice as well as an abso lute power? If god haue also an absolute iusti­ce / then whete [...] can not his absolute power prevayle vn tyl his absolute iustice be fullie countrepaysed. god haue an absolu te iustice [...] And so is it false y ^t Rastell beginneth with all / y ^t god by his absolute power maye forgeue eve rye offence at his pleasure with out any cause. For (as I sayed) his absolute iustice must nedes be satisfyed & fullye countrepaysed. If Rastell dare saye that god hath an absolute power & no absolute iustice / then taketh he his pleasure in dede. For if he make one nocionall in god grea­ter thē a nother (by this worde nocionall which y ^• scolemē vse / I wold you shuld vnderstonde: y ^• goodnes / wysedō / power / iustice & mercye of god & [...].) then shall he make a dissencyō in god & ima­gyne y ^t one nocionall subdueth a nother. yee ād besides y ^• / sith ech one of these nocionalles is ve rie god (for y ^• power of god is nothinge but god him silfe / & y ^• iustice of god is nothinge but god him silfe / & so forth of all the other) thē if his po wer were greater then his iustice / it shuld folo­we y ^• god were greater thē god / & consequētlye we shulde haue a greate god & a litle god & mo goddes thē one / such revell maketh Rastel with his turcke. But y ^• christē beleue y ^t one power of god is no greater thē a nother and y ^t his power is not aboue his iustyce / neyther his iustice abo­ue [Page] his mercye &c̄. And so maye you se that Ra­stels imaginacion of goddes absolute power is but verye childish ād vnsaverye. For he hath no power agenst his scripture and him silfe. Thus [...] his seven reasons with their solucions

But yet that his worke shuld longe endure all tempestes and stormes / he addeth a batelmēt [...]d wether stone to avoyde and shote off the ray ne / for teare it shuld so [...]e in and make his buyl dynge decaye. And therwith cōcludeth his boke

‘To beleue / sayeth he / that there were no pur­gatorye [...] to purge and punish oure sinnes after we be departed / shuld put avaye y ^t drede of god from the most parte of y ^• people and geue them boldnes to cōmitte offences & sinnes. And agay ne / if the people shuld beleue y ^t they neuer neade to make any satisfaction nor restituciō to their nèyghboures for the wronges done vnto them / they shuld neuer force nor care what [...] / [...] / theftes / robberies and murthers they did.’ Finallye if they beleued that such a light re­pentaunce shuld be sufficiēt with out any other satisfaccion to be made / it shuld be an occasion to destroye all vertue and encrease vice ād sinne to y ^• vtter destrucciō of the comen welth & quyet lyuinge of y ^• people. And thus he maketh an [...]

As to the first where he sayeth that it wold [...] put awaye the dreade of god and geue boldnes to sinne / if we thought there were no purgato­rye / we se and maye evidentlye perceaue the con trarye all daye both in yonge and olde of them that beleue there is a purgatorye. The yōge sa ye I will take my pleasure whyle I maye. and if I maye haue but one hou [...]es respite to crye god mercye / I care not. for then shall I go but to purgatorye ād so shall I be sure to be saued. The old saye: I will kepe my goodes as longe [Page] as I maye for I wotte not what nead I shal haue. But when I die I wyll crye god mercye / ād then shall I go but to purgatorye / and myne executours that haue my goodes shall redeme me thence well ynough. And so to beleue purgato­rye / is rather an occasion of rechlesse boldenesse [...] then of the feare of god. Besydes that if they knews that there were no purgatorye / thē [...] de manye the more feare god & do well them sel­ues & not trust to their executoures for feare of dāpnaciō / how be it as I haue saied b [...]fore they y ^• feare not god but for payne whether it be of hell or purgatorye are yet vnder condēpnacion ād not in goddes fauoure. And this dare I bold lye afferme / that they which feare not god but for purgatoryes sake shall neuer come in it / no nor yet in heaven. And therfore it is but folye to imagine purgatorye for that entent.

As cōcerninge y ^• seconde poynte. If the peo­ple [...] beleued y ^t they neded not to make satisfacciō to their neyghboures for their trespaces &c̄ I haue sufficiētlye āswered before / y ^• we must make satisfacciō vnto oure neyghboures if we be able or els will god never forgeue vs. And if we be not able / yet must we knowlege oure offēce and thē is oure neyghboure bounde to forgeue vs vnder y ^• payne of dāpnaciō. And so can this pro ue no purgatorye Now as touchinge y ^• thir de / y ^t if they beleued y ^• such a light repentaunce were sufficiēt with out any other satisfacciō / it shuld be an occasiō of vice & subuersiō of y ^• co­mē welth: I answere / as I haue done before al most in euerie argumēt: sith thou arte ignoraunte of Christes deeth and his satisfaccion vnto the father for vs / that al the repentaunce w­hich we can take is not sufficient to coun­trepayse one cryme / but that if Christ were [Page] not we shuld albe dampned. Here will I leave Rastell & hys turcke Gingemin wyth all thyce naturall phylosophye (whych ys now pro­ued folishnes) for hetherto hath he proued no purgatorye / neyther hath he one good reason nor yet to that varen reasons one good solucy­on / as we haue sufficiētlye declared. But let vs heare [...] what more of goddes worde: and se how purgatorye stondeth wyth that.

Paule sayeth / we must all be brought befo­re 27 the iugement seate of christ / that euery man maye receaue accordinge to the workes of hys bodye / whether yt be good or badde. 2. Cor. 5. yf thys be true / then can there be no purgatorye [...]. Cor. 5. whych shall profyte hym after he is dyssolued from hys bodye / for then shuld he not receaue accordinge to the workes of hys bodye. But rather accordinge to the paynes that he suffered in purgatorye. Now yf thys texte be true then must it folow that all thyne executoures dealin ge / and offeringe of massepence. &c. helpe the not a myte. And by thys texte it is not possible that there shulde be a purgatorye.

Uppon thys texte wolde I fayne dyspute a poynte of sophystrye / whych I wolde gladlye haue dyssolued of them that thinke them selues lerned in phylosophye. My sophisme is / y ^• two contradictoryes maye stonde to gether and be Contrady [...] both true. whych I am sure no sophystre dare graunte / for it hath in tymes past ben condemp ned in oxforde foran [...]eresie. The cōtradictories are these. Euerye man shall receaue accordinge to the workes of hys bodye. And some mā shall not receaue accordinge to the workes of his bo dye / that these two cōtradictoryes be both true I wyll proue. The fyrst proposycyon is paules [Page] 2. Cor. 5. whych no man will denye to be true. And the seconde maye caselye be proued true / whych is / that some man shall not receaue ac­cordinge to the workes of his bodye. For be y [...] in case y ^• there departe a man out of thys worl de which is not clene purged by faith ād y ^• wor de of god neyther hath hys rebellyous mēbres subdued thorow deeth (as they imagyne) but y ^• the spottes and remnauntes of sinne remayne in hym for the whych he is worthye to lye in y ^• paynes of purgatorie for the space of sixe yeare Thys graūted / whych I am sure they wyll not denye / then also put I the case that thys man lyinge in purgatorye by the space of a moneth / haue a frēde whych offereth for hym a peny vnto. S. dominikes boxe (whych hath such power that assone as the tinginge is harde in the boxe so sone the soule is fre in heauen) or that a frende of hys bye a pardon for him which maye absolue him a pena & a culpa for all cometh to one effecte. Thys mā deliuered on that maner doth not receaue accordinge to the workes of his bo dye for by the workes of his bodie he shulde yet lye in purgatorie more then. v. yere? And that doth he not / but is by and by delyuered frō purgatorye. Ergo I maye conclude that some man receaueth not accordynge to the workes of hys bodye / and so are two contradictoryes true or els there can be no such deliueraūce out of pur­gatorye / whych destroyeth all pardons / masse­pence and suffragyes for the deed. This wolde I haue soluted. How be it I wyll not adnum­bre it for an argumēt because the vnlerned peo ple (vnto whō I wryte thys boke) can not well perceaue it. But thys sophisme haue I wryten to stoppe the chatteringe mouthes of the sophi [Page] sters and to cast them a bone to gnawe vppon.

Paule sayeth / you which were in tymes pa 28 ste straungers ād enemyes because youre myn des were sette in euell workes hath he now re­concyled in the bodye of hys flesh thorow deeth to make you holye ād such as no man can com­playne on / ādwyth out faute in his awne sight yf ye continue grounded and stablyshed in the fayeth / and be not moued awaye from the ho­pe of the gospell. Collo. 1. Here paule affermeth that you are reconcyled thorow hys deeth / so that ye are made holye and wyth oute faute in hys sygh [...] (I haue expounded what yt is to be wyth out faut [...] in hys syght in my sixte argu­ment) loke ye yet for a nother purgatorye? are ye so childish and insensyble to imagine that ye must yet go thorow purgatorye / syth ye are all readye wyth out faute in hys syght? Thys is a playne case / god of hys ryghtwysnes will not punysh a man for nothynge: but all that are grounded and stablyshed in y ^• fayeth are in hys syght wyth out faute (for theyr synnes are not imputed vnto them but forgeuen thorow Chri stes bloude) wherfore of necessyte I must con­clude that no faythfull shall euer come there. 29 [...] verye mā y ^t departeth this worlde is eyther faythfull or vnfaythfull if he be faythfull then cometh he not there / as the foresayde argumēt proueth. And if he be vnfaithfull thē cometh he neuer in purgatorye / but is all readie dampned 30 Joā. 3. Marce y ^• last. Now if neyther faithfull nor vnfaythfull entre in to yt then shuld yt be in vayne: but there is nothinge made in vayne wherfore I must cōclude that there ys no soch purgatorye. Paule saith be the spared not hys awne sonne but delyue­red 30 [Page] hym for vs all / how shall he not wyth hym geue vs all thynges also? who shall laye any Ro. thynge to y ^• charge of goddes chosen? Ro, 8. Forsouth lorde god oure prelates laye so sore vnto theyr charge / that they wolde haue them broyle in purgatorye. But lorde be oure protec­toure for it is thou that iustefyest vs / and hast frelye geuen vs all thinge wyth hym. Ro. 8. Paule saieth y ^• lawe of y ^• sprete / wherin is liffe thorow christ Iesu hath deliuered m [...] from the 31 lawe of sinne & deeth. Roma. 8. Seinge we beso delyuered what nead vs seke a nother dely ve­raūce Ro. 8. speciallye sith they make it so paynefull? Seinge we are on that maner deliuered / h [...]w chaūceth it that we áre takē prisoners agayne vnder sinne / that we must be purged a fresh by the fyre of purgatorie? I praye god geue vs grace that we maye be purged from thys oure blinde ignoraunce thorow hys sprete of knowlege / that we maye perceave how yt ys Iesus Christ that purgeth oure sinnes ād hath deliuered vs thorow his bloudeshedynge. So shulde we geue him y ^• prayse whych hath deserved yt. And not be so vnkinde vnto him as we now be.

Paule sayeth that there ys no 32 condemnacyon to them whych are in Chryst Iesu Roma. viii. But yf wee continue fyrme and Ro. 8. stable in Chryst vnto the ende then shall we be Ma. 24. saved Mathe. xxiiii. what neadeth then pur­gatorye? yee and what shuld purgatorye do? Is not Chryst suffycyent? Then ys oure fay eth in vayne. And yf he be suffycyent / then ys gurgatorye in vayne.

Paule saseth yf you be iustified bi y ^e law thē ys Chryst deed in vayne. Now yf the lawe beinge 33 [Page] good iust and holye. Ro. 7. And euen of godden a wne makinge cā not iustefye vs / thinkest thou Roma. 7. to be iustefied by fryinge in purgatorye?

[...]hey that are the chefe patrones and proc 34 toures of purgatorye / do fayne it for no nother entente / But to purge euell workes / and to be as a penaūce to supplye y ^e good workes which we lacked beinge in thys worlde. But all thys can not bringe vs in to heauen: For then were christ deed in vaync. And of thys haue we euy­dent examples / Abraham / Isaac / Iacob / Dauid ād all holye propher [...]s were excluded from hea uen vntill christ had suffered deeth / thys all m [...] testyfye. But yf good workes or penaunce coul de haue brought thē to heauen they shuld not haue taryed out of it so lōge. Therfore I may conclude that it is but vanite to im agine a pur gatorye for to purge euell workes and supplye good. For as I haue shewed / y ^• holpe not the patriarches.

Paraduenture thou wilt saye unto me / shal [...] Good workes I then do no good workes? I answere yes. Thou wilt aske me wherfore? I āswere / thou must do them because god hath cōmaūded thē Thou wilt saye / for what entent hath he com­maunded them? I answere / because thou arte lyuynge in thys worlde and must nedes haue conuersacyon wyth men / therfore hath god appoynted the what thou shalt do to the profyt [...] of they neyghboure ād taminge of thy flesh As paule testifyeth. Eph. 2 we are hys worke Ephc. 2. made in christ Iesu vnto good workes / whych workes god hath prepared that we shulde wal ke in them. These workes god wold haue vs do that the vnfaythfull might se the godlye ād vertuous cōuersasion of his faythfull and the [Page] rebye be cōpelled to glorefie oure father which ys in heauen. Mat. 5. And so are they both pro­fitable Mat. 5. for thy neyghboure and also a testymo­nie vnto the by the whych men maye knowe y ^t thou arte the right sonne of thy heuenlie father and a verye chryst vnto the neyghboure: and euen as oure heuenlye father gaue hys christ v [...] to vs not for anye profyte that he shalde haue therbye / but onlye for oure profyte / lykewyse thou shuldest do al thy good workes not hauin ge respecte what cōmodities thou shalt haue of it / but euer attēdinge thorow cheryte / the welth and profyt of thy neyghboure. Thou wylt yet obiecte / thē se I no greate profite that I shal ha ue by them: I answere / what woldest thou ha ue? Fyrst Christ is geuen the frelie ād with him hast thou all thynges. He is thy wisdome / righ­twysnes / halowinge and redempcyon. 1. Cor. 1. 1. Cor. 1. by hym arte thou made inherytoure of god / ād Roma. 8. felowheyer with christ. Roma. 8. This is frelie geuen the with Chryst before thou wast borne thorow the favoure and eleccyon of god whych eleccyon was done before the fundacyons of y ^• worlde were cast. Ephe. 1. Now were thou ve­rye Ephe. 1. fonde ād vnkinde if thou thoughtest to put chase by thy workes y ^• thinge which is alreadie geuen the. Therfore must thou do thy workes with a single yie / hauinge neither respecte vnto the ioyes of heauē / neither yet to the paynes of hell / but onlye do thē for y ^• profyte of thy neygh boure as god cōmaūdeth y ^• / and let hym alone wyth the resydue [...] 35

[...]o thys well agreeth paule. Eph. 2. sayenge / by grace are ye made saffe thorow faith / ād that cometh not of youre selues / but yt ys the gyfte of god and cometh not of workes lest any man Ephe. [...]. [Page] shulde bost hym selfe. Loo here sayeth paule playnlye that oure saluacion is the gifte of god [...] cometh not of workes / yf it come not of wor kes then are we worse then mad to fayne a put gatorye. For the chefest operacyon of that shuld be but to supplye the workes whych we haue not accomplyshed beynge in thys bodye [...]

Paule sayeth. Roma. xi. The remnaunte 36 [...]. II. whych are lefte at thys tyme / are thorow the eleccyon of grace. If yt be thorow grace then ys yt not by workes / for thē grace were no gra ce. Or yf yt be for the workes sake / so is yt not of favours and grace / accordinge to that whych [...]. 4. he wrote before. Roma. 4. If abraham (sayeth paule) were iustylyed by his workes / then maye he reioyce but not before god. But what sayeth the scrypture: Abraham belcued god and that was unputed vnto him for rightwysnes / for he that worketh reccaueth hys rewarde not of sa­voure but of dutye. Now if it be dutye / then ne deth he not to thanke god / but rather hym selfe for then god geueth hym nothinge but y ^t which ys hys awne of dutye. Where ys then the pray­se and glorye that we owe to god? Therfore yt foloweth in y ^• same texte: vnto him y ^t worketh not / but beleueth in hym that iustefieth the wy ked / ys his faith imputed [...]or ryghtwysenes. Now if oure saluacyon come of fayth and not thorow oure workes & desertes / th [...] is purgato rie shutte out of dore & quite vanisheth awaye [...]

Christ sayeth. So hath god loued the worl­de 37 [...]. 3. that he wolde geue hys onlye sonne that all whych beieue in hym shuld not perish: but that they shulde haue everlastinge liffe. Ioan. 3. Thē what nedeth purgatori [...] Thou wilt paraduen turesay / it is true they shal haue euerlastige life [Page] but they must first go thorow purgatorye. I an swere / naye verelye. But christ affirmeth & that with an oth / that he which heareth his worde & beleveth his father which sent him / hath ever­lastinge liffe. yee & that he is gone alreadye from deeth vnto liffe. Ioan. 5. wilt thou now saye y ^t he shall in to purgatorye? for south if that were true / and the fyre also so hote as our prelates af Ioan. 5. firme / then went he not frō deeth vnto lyffe / but rather from a small deeth vnto a greater deeth.

The prophete sayeth: precious is in the sight 38 of the lorde the deeth of his sayntes. Psal. 116. Psal. 116. And. S. Ioan. sayeth / blessed are the deed which Apoca. 14 dye in the lorde. Apo. 14. but surelye if they shuld go in to y ^• paynfull purgatorye / there to be tour mented of fendes / thē were they not blissed / but rather wretched.

God sayeth by Moses Exodi. 33. I will she­we 39 mercye to whom I shew mercie / and will ha Edodi. 33. ue compassiō on whom I haue cōpassion. Now ifoure saluacion be of mercye and compassion then can there be no soch purgatorye. For y ^• na ture of mercye is to forgeue / but purgatorye wil haue all payde and satis [...]yed so that they tway ne be desperate and can in no wyse agre. And lo ke how manye textes in scripture commēd god­des mercye / even so manye deny this paynfull purgatorye.

The prophete sayeth / he hath not dealt with 40 vs after oure sinnes neyther hath rewarded vs accordinge to oure iniquytyes / but loke how hye heauens are aboue the erth / even so Psal. 103. hye hath he made his mercye to preuayle ouer them that worshuppe him. And loke how farre the east is from the west / even so farre hath he sette oure sinnes from vs. Psal. 103. And before [Page] [...] the same psalme / the prophete exhorteth hys soule to prayse the lorde / sayenge. Prayse the lorde (o my soule) which forgeueth y ^• all thyne iniquityes ād healeth all thy dyseas es. Now yf this be true y ^t he ordoreth vs not accordinge to oure sinnes / but poureth hys mercye so plentu [...]uslic vppō vs / if also he forgeue vs all oure in [...] quityes / why shulde there be any such purgato­rye to purge and tourment the sely soules / and speeyallye sith all was forgeuen them before? 40

wilt thou not calle hym a shrewed creditou [...]e whych after he hath frelye forgeuen hys de [...] toure / wyll yet cast hym in preson for the same debte? I thinke euerye man wold saye on thys maner / It was in hys awne pleasure whether he wolde forgeue it or not / and then of favou­re and compassyon he forgaue it. But now he hath forgeuen yt he doeth vnryghtwyslye to punysh hys debtoure for yt. And all be yt man repent hys forgeuynge and afterwarde sue for hys debte / yet god can never repent hym selfe [...]. of hys mercyable giftes. Roma. xi. And therfore wyll he u [...]uer tourment vs for oure trespaces [...]. [...]. no nor yet once remembre them Ezechyelis. 18. Hebre. 10. 41

[...]yth god forgeueth the greater offen­ces why shall he not also forgeue the lesse? He forgaue frelye moch greater offences vn­to [...]. [...]. the publycane whych knowleged hym sylfe to be a synner. Luce. 18 / then those be for whych men fayne that we must be tourmen ted in purgatorye. For there ys no soule (as they graunte them selves) that suffreth in purgatorye for greate crimes and mortall syn nes. But onlye for lytle preatye peccadu tyans (yf a man maye be boolde to vse [Page] Master Mores worde) and for veniall sinnes. Dis. 25. Cap. qualis. He forgaue moch greater enormityes vnto the thefe / to whom he sayed this daye shalt thou be with me / not in purgato Luce. 23. rye / but in paradyse Luc. xxiij. He forgaue moch Luce. 7. greater vnto Marye Mawdelene. Luce. vij. Is his hande now shortened? Is not his power as greate as it was? Is he not as merciful as ever he was? why leave we the cisterne of lyvinge water / and digge vs pittes of oure a wne which can hold no pure water? Hieremie. ii. why forsa ke we Christ which hath hoellye purged vs an seke a nother purgatorye of oure awne imagi­nacion? If thou beleue that Christes bloude is sufficient to purge thy sinne / why sekest thou a nother purgatorye?

S. Paule sayeth: I desyre to be loosed from 43 this bodye and to be with Christ Phil. 1. Uere­lye Phil. [...]. if he had thought to haue gone thorow pur­gatorye he wolde not haue bene so hastye. For there shuld he haue had an hote broth & an hart lesse / and so might he rather haue desyred longe to have lyved. And therfore I suppose that he knew nothinge of purgatorye but y ^t he rather thought (as the truth is) y ^t deeth shulde finish all his evylles and sorowes ād geue him rest in loosinge him from his rebellious mēbres which were solde and capty ve vnder sinne. 44

All christen men shuld desyre deeth as Pau [...]ow a christe mā shulde de­syre deeth [...] doeth Phililp. 1. not because of their crosse & trouble which they suffer in this present worlde for then they sought them selves and their aw­ne profyte and not the glorye of god. But if we will well desyre deeth / we must first cōsidre how sore sinne displeaseth god oure father / and then oure awne nature and frayltye and oure mem­bres [Page] so bounde vnder sinne that we can not do 2. Cor. 3. nor yet thinke a good thought of oure selues. 2. Cor. 3. Then shall we finde occasion to lament oure liffe / not for the troubles that we suffer in it / but because we be so prone vnto sinne and so continuallye displease god oure father. Uvhat desyreth he that wolde longe lyve / but daylye to hepe sinne vppon sinne? And therfore shuld we haue a will to dye because that in deeth oure sin ne [...] / and then we shall no more displea­se god oure father. Now if we shuld fayne a purgatorye / it were not possible to imagyne a greater obstacle to make vs feare and flye from [...]. For sith everye man must knowlege him silfe a [...]. 1. Joan. 1. And not beleue that chri stes de [...]th were sufficient / but that he must also 1. Jo. 1. go to purgatorye: who shuld departe this worl­de with a quyet minde?

The wiseman sayeth: The soules of y ^• right 45 wise are in y ^• hande of god. They seamed to dye in the yies of y ^e folish & their ende was thought to be payne and affliccion / but they are in peace Sapiencie. iij. There is no man but he must ne­des [...]. 3 graunte me that everye faithfull is right wi [...]. [...]. se in y ^• sight of god as it is wryten Abacuc. ij. y ^• Rom. 5 right wiseman lyveth bi his faith. And Rom. v. because we are iustifyed by faith / we are at pea­ce with god thorow oure lorde Iesus Christ. &c̄. when these faithfull or rightwyse departe / then sayth this texte that they are fooles which thin ke them to be in payne or affliccion: for it affer­meth that they are in peace. Now sith their pu [...] gatorye which they imagyne is payne and afflic cion / and yet fayne that the rightwyse onlye shall entre in to it after their deeth / thē are they foles that suppose there is a purgatorye / or el [...] [Page] [...]his texte can not be true.

Hor what entent will god haue vs tourmen ted in purgatorye / to make satisfaccion for oure 46 sinnes? verelye then is Christ deed in vayne as we haue often proved before. But thinke you not reather that oure purgacion shuld be to en­crease oure faith / or grace / or cherite (for these thre couer the multitude of sinnes) no verelye we can not fayne a purgatorye for any such cau se. For faith springeth by hearinge of the wor­de. Romano. 10. but the pope sendeth them no Rom. 10 preachers thither / ergo their faith can not the­re be encreased. And agayne / payne engendreth and kendleth [...]ate agenst god and not loue or charite. Furthermore. My lorde of Rochestre is compelled to graunte that the soules in purga­torye [...] optayne there neyther more faith nor gra­ce More and mi lorde of Rochestr [...] can not [...] ­gre nor cherite then they brought in with them / and so can I se no resonable cause why there shuld be a purgatorye. Never thelesse Master More sayeth / that both their grace ād cherite is encreased. And so maye you perceave that lyes can never agre how wittye so ever they be that fayne and cloke them For in some poyntes they shall be founde contrarye so that at the length they maye be disclosed.

God is fullye pacefyed with thy will when 47 thou hast no power to accomplish the outwar­de Pro. 23 facte. For the wiseman sayeth proverb. xxiij. sonne geue me thy harte. Now if thy will be v­pright and so y ^• thou haue a desyre to fulfill the lawe / then doth god reken y ^• will vnto the for y ^• full facte. If then thorow the frayltye of thy mē bres thou falle in to sinne / thou mayst well saye with the apostle Romanorū. vij. The good y ^t I wold do / that do I not: y ^t is / I haue a will ād Rom. 7 [Page] desire to fulfill the lawe of god / and not to dis­please my hevenlye father / yet that I do not. But the evyll which I hate / that do I / that is I do cōmitte sinne which in dead I hate. Now if I hate the sinne which I do / then loue I the lawe of god which forbiddeth sinne / and do cō ­sent vnto this lawe that it is good right wyse & holye. And so the sinne which I hate and yet cō mitte it thorow the frayltye of my membres / is not iputed nor rekened vnto me for sinne. Ney ther will S. Paule graunte that it is I which do that sinne / but he sayed: I haue a will to do good / but I can not performe that will. For I do not that good which I wolde / but the evyll which I wolde not that do I. Now if I do y ^t thinge which I wold not do / then is it not I y ^t do it but the sinne that dwelleth with in me. I delight in the lawe of god with myne inwarde man (that is with my will and mynde which is renued with the sprete of god) but I se a no­ther lawe in my membres which rebelleth agēst the lawe of my minde and maketh me bonde vn to the lawe of sinne which is in my membres. So y ^t I my silfe in my will and minde do obeye the lawe of god (hatinge sinne as the lawe com­maundeth me and not consentinge vnto it in my mynde and will) but in my [...]iesh and mem­bres I serve the lawe of sinne / for the fraylt [...]e of my membres compelleth me to sinne Rom. 7.

As by example if I se a poore man which is not of abilite to do me any pleasure / and ne­uerthelesse doth all his diligence to seke my fa­voure and wolde with har [...]e and minde geue me some acceptable present if he were of power beinge also sorye that he can not performe his will and minde towardes me. Now if there be [Page] any poynte of humanite or gentlenesse in me / I will counte this man for my frinde / and accep­te his good will as well / as though he had in de ad performed his will. For his abilite extendeth no further. If his power were better / better shulde I haue. Even so sith we are not of po­wer and abilite to performe the lawe of god / & yet beare a good harte towardes god and his lawe / lamentinge oure imbecillitye that we can do him no further pleasure: thē will god recoun te vs not as his enemyes / but as his deare chil­dren and beloved frendes. Neyther will he after warde thrust vs in to purgatorye / but as a ten­dre father pardone vs oure trespaces / and accep te oure good will for the full dede.

S. Paule exhorteth vs Gal. vj. that we wor 48 ke well whyle we haue tyme / for what so euer a Gala. 6. man doth so we that shall h [...] repe / by this maye we evidentlye preceave that he shall not [...] accordinge to his doinge or suffringe in a nother worlde / and therfore cā there be no purgatorye. The wyseman sayeth Eccle. xiiij. worke rightu 49 ousnes before thy deeth for after this liffe there is no meete / that is to saye succoure to be foun­de. Eccle. 14. There are some which will vnderstonde this place and also the texte in the. xlviij. argument on this maner that there shulde be no place of deservinge / but yet there maye well a be a place of punishment. But this solucion besides that it is not ground [...]d on scripture / is ver [...]e [...]. For I praye you wherfore shuld their invē [...] of purgatorye serve but to be a place of pur ginge / punishment / and penaunce / by the which the soule shuld make satisfaccion / that it might so deserve to entre in to the rest of heaven?

Blessed are the deed which dye in the lorde 50 [Page] from hence forwarde / yee trulye saieth the sprete / that they may rest from their laboures. But their workes folowe with thē. This texte they vse in their soulemasses as though it made for [...]. 14 purgatorye. But surelye me thinketh that it ma keth moch agēst them. For let vs enquyre of all the [...] and fautours of purgatorye / wh [...] ther the soules that must be prayed for / are de­parted in the lorde or not? And they must nedes answere that thy are departed in the lorde / for the vnfaithfull which dye not in the lorde must not be prayed for. And therfore must they be vpright Christen soules which are toutmented / for the other are all dampned. Now saith y ^e tex te that all such deed as dye in the lorde are bles­sed: but what blessednesse were that to broyle in purgatorie? And if they wolde here fayne a glos­se (as their maner is when they are in a strayte ever to seke a starttinge hole) ād saye that they are blessed because they are in a good hope / alt­hough they haue not yet the rest / but must suf­ [...]er before in purgatorye: that evasion will not [...]his texte suffer / for the texte saieth y ^t they rest and are in peace as Esaias also sayeth in y ^e. [...] Esa. 57 that the rightwyse (and everye faithfull man is rightwyse in the sight of god as we haue oftē proved before) whē he departeth resteth in pea­ce Sapi. 3. as in a bedde. And sapiencie. iij. it is sayed y ^t the rightwyse soules are in peace: And so is it not possible that there shulde be such a payne­full purgatorye.

Thus haue we confuted Rastell: both his ar gumentes and also solucions / for all that he wri teth is false and agenst scripture. Furthermore / we haue brought in to proue that there can be no such purgatorye. l. argumentes all grounded [Page] on scripture. And if neade were a mā might ma ke a thousande of which oure cleregie shuld not be able to avoyde on?

Here I thinke some men will wondre that I haue the scripture so full on my syde be­cause that there are certen men / as my lorde of Rochestre and Sir Thomas More / which by scripture go aboute to prove purgatorye: & this is sure that scripture is not contrarye vnto it silfe. Therfore it is necessarye that we examine the textes which they bringe in for their purpos se / markinge y ^e processe both what goeth before and whate cometh after. And thē shall we ease­lye perceave the truthe / and how these two mē haue bene pituouslye deceaved. First I will an­swere vnto Master More which hath in a ma­ner nothinge but that h [...] toke oute of my lorde of Rochestre / although he handle it more sut­tellye. And what so ever is not answered in this parte / shalbe touched and fullye convinced in the thirde / which shal be a severall boke agenst my lorde of Rochestre. ☜

MAster More begineth with the M. More selye soules of purgatorye and maketh them to wayle and la­ment / that they heare the wor [...] de waxe so faynte in the faith of christ that any man shuld ne ade now to prove purgatorye to christē men / or that any man coulde be founde which wold in so greate a thin ge so fullye and fastlye beleued for an vndouted article this. xv. hundred yeare / beginne now to staggar and stande in doubte & [...].

[...]erelye me thinketh it a foule faute so sore [...] to stomble evē at the first. It were agreate blot t [...] for him / if he shuld be compelled by good au­ctorite to cutte of. iiij. hundred of his forsayed numbre Now if we can not onlye proue that he must cutte off that. iiij. hundred yeare / but also bringe witnesse that it was neyther at that ty­me beleued for an article of the faith nor yet for an vndoubted truth: then I thinke ye wold sup pose this man sum whate out of the waye. And that will I proue by goddes grace. S. Augusty­ne was. iiij. hundred yeare after Christ. And yet in his tyme was it not fullye and fastlie beleved for an article of the faith / no nor yet fullye and fastly beleved to be true For he him selfe writeth in his enchiridion on this maner speakinge of purgatorye: After he expounded y ^• place of Pau le. 1. Corin. 3. and had taken this worde fyre not [...]. Cori. 3. for purgatorye / but for temptacion and tribula ciō / he added these wordes in y ^•. 69. chaptre. It is not incredible that such a thinge shuld also chaunce after this liffe / and whether it be so or not it maye be questioned [...]. Of these wor des maye we well perceaue that he counted it [Page] not for an article of the faith neyther yet for an vndoubted truth for if it had bene an article of the faith / or an vndoubted truth: then wolde he not haue sayed / potest etiam queri / that is to sa ye it maye be questioned / doubted or moved: for those holye fathers vsed not to make questions and doubtes in articles of the faith amonge thē selves / neyther yet in soch thinges as were vn­doubted true. They vsed not to dispute whe­ther Christ dyed for oure sinnes and rose agay­ne Roma. 4. for oure iustificacion / but onlye beleued it.

Be sides that the occasion why he wrote y ^• boke entitled enchiridtō was this. There was one Laurencius a christen man which instant­lye requyred of. Sain. Austayne that he wolde wryte him a forme of his belefe which he might continuallye vere in his hande and where vn to he shuld sticke. Uppon this wrote him. S. Austy ne this litle boke / where in he cōmaundeth him not fullye and fastlye to beleue (these are Ma­ster Mores wordes) that there was a purgato­rye: buth sayed that it maye be questioned / doub ted or moued whether there be soch a place or not. Of this haue we playne evidence y ^t it was none article of the faith in. S. Austaynes tyme (which was. iiij. hundred yeare after Christ) ney ther yet vndoubted truth. And so maye all men se that master More is sore deceaved and sette on the sonde even at the first brunte and in the beginninge of his viage.

His second reason that he hath to proue M. more purgatorye is this: ‘The verye miscreauntes ād idolatres / Turkes / Saracenes and paynims ha ue ever for the most parte thought and beleued that after the bodyes are deceased: the soules of such as were neyther deedlye dampned wret­ches [Page] for euer / nor on the tother syde / so good [...] that their offences done in this worlde haue de­served more punishment then they had suffered and sustayned there / were purged and punished by payne aster the deeth / ere ever they were ad­mit [...]ed vnto their welth & rest. And so must the­re nedes be a purgatorye.’

I answere / if it were lawfull to requyre wy Frith. sedom in a man so wyse as Master More is co­unted / here wold I wysh him a litle more witte. for I thinke there is no wyseman that will gra unte this to be a good argument / the Turkes / Saracenes / paynims & Iewes beleue it to be tr ue / ergo we must beleue that it is true: for I wil shew you a like argument. The Turkes / Sara cenes / paynims and Iewes beleue that we haue not the right Christ / but that we are all damp­ned which beleue in Christ. Is it therfore true? shall we turne oure faith because they beleue y ^t we be deceaved? I thinke there is no man so fo lish as to graunte him this. But if Master Mo re will haue his reason holde / he must argue on this man [...]r: The [...] and infidels be­fore named beleue that there is a purgatorye & their beleue is true / therfore we must beleue y ^t there is a purgatorye. Now soloweth this argu ment sum what more formallye. Here might I put him to the profe of his minor / which is / that their belefe (in beleuinge purgatorye) is true: w­hich thinge he shall never be able to proue. But I haue such confidence of the truth on my side [...] I will take vppon me to proue the negaty­ue / Even that their belefe is not true as [...] purgatorye. for these miscreauntes which [...] purgatorye (beleue not y ^t there is a pur­gatorye for vs that be Christen: for they beleue [Page] that we are fallen from al truth & [...]tterlye [...]. But they thinke that there is a purgato­rye for thē selues wherin they shalbe purged ād punished vntill they haue made full satisfacciō for their sinnes committed: but that is false / for neither Turkes / Saracenes paynims nor Iew is which beleue not in Christ haue or euer shall entre in to anye purgatorye / but they are all dāp ned wretches because they bel [...]ue not in [...]esu Christ. Ioan. 3 Now sith they be deceaved / for Ioan. 3. they haue no purgatorye / but are al dāpned as many as beleue not / Alas what blindnes is that to argue that we must solowe them which are both blinde and out of the right waye?

After this disputeth he by naturall reason y ^• there must be a purgatorye, his disputaciō cō ­tinueth a leffe ād an halfe / out of the which Ra [...] toke all his boke And so are all his apparēt reasons disclosed before agenst Rastell. Thē beginneth he with the scripture / on this maner

‘IT semeth verye probable & likelye that y ^• M. More good kinge Ezechias for no nother cause Ezechias wepte at the warninge of his deeth geven him by the prophete / but onlye for the feare of purgatorye. &c̄.’

The storye is writen. 4. Reg. 2. And. Esai. 38 Ezechias was sike vnto y ^• deeth. And Esai the prophete & sonne of Amos came vnto him sayē ­ge / this sayeth y ^• lord / dispose thy house for thou Frith. shalt dye / and not ly ve. he tourned his face vnto 4. Regū. 2 the walle ād prayed the lorde sayenge / I besech Esaye. [...]. the lorde / remembre I praye the / how I haue walked before the in the truth and in a per­feyte harte / and haue done that thinge which is pleasaunte and acceptable before the.

Then Ezechias wepte with greate cryenge. [Page] these are the wordes of the texte. we can not pe [...] ceaue by the texte that he was a greate sinner / but rather the contrarye. for he sayeth that he hath walked before the lorde in truth and in a perfeyte harte / and hath done y ^t thinge which is pleasaunte and acceptable before the lorde. And therfore it is nothinge like that he shuld feare purgatorye neyther yet hell. Thou wilt A question to Master More paradventure aske me / if he wepte not for fea­re of purgatorye / why did he then wepe? I will also aske you a question / and then will I shewe you my minde. Christ did not onlye wepe / but feared so sore y ^t he swette like droppes of blou­de [...] doune vppon the erth / which was more then to wepe. Now if I shuld aske you why Christ feared aud swette so sore: what wol de you answere me? that it was for feare of the paynes of purgatorye? forsouth he that wolde so answere shulde be laughed to skorne of all y ^• worlde / as he were well worthye. wherfore was it thē? verelye even for feare of deeth / as it play nlye appeareth after: for he prayed vnto his fa­ther Math. 26 sayenge: my father if it be possible let this deeth [...]asie fro me. Mat. 26. so fearful a thinge is deeth even vnto the most purest flesh. And even the same cause will I assigne in Ezechias that he wepte for feare of deeth / and not for pur gatorye. Now proceadeth he further and pro­miseth to proue it by playne evident textes / as it is verye nedefull. for the texte that he alleged before is sum what to farre wrested and yet wil it not serve him

‘Haue ye not (saieth he) the wordes of scrip­ture M. More writen in the boke of the kinges / dominus deducit ad inferos er reducit: Oure lorde brin­geth folke doune in to [...]hell / and bringeth them [Page] thence agayne? But they that be in that where the dāpned soules be / they be neuer delyuered thence agayne. wherfore yt apparesh well that they whom god deliuereth and bringeth thence agayne / be in that parte of hell that ys called purgatorye.’

[...]hys texte is writen in the first boke of y ^• Frith kynges and in the ii. chaptre / and they are the 1. Re. 2. wordes of Anna which sayeth: The lorde doth kylle and quicken agayne: he ledeth doune in to hell and bringeth agayne. Here he thinketh to haue good holde. But surelye his holde will fay le him / for in this one texte he sheweth him selfe twyse ignoraūte. First because he knoweth not that the hebrue worde / sheol / doth not signyfye hell / but a graue or pitte that is digged. As it is written geneses. 42. Si quid aduersitatis acci Gene. 42. derit ei in terra ad quā pergitis / deducetis canos meos cū dolore ad iferos / y ^t is / If any evil chaū ce vnto my sonne beniamin in y ^• londe whether you go / you shall brynge doune min hoore hea­ [...]es wyth sorow vnto my graue / not vnto hell nor yet vnto purgatorie / for he thought neither to go to hell nor purgatorye for hys sonne / but thought y ^t he shuld dye for sorow yf hys sonne had any myschaunce.

Besides y ^t he is clene ignoraūte of y ^• comē ma­ner of all prophetes whych for y ^• most parte in all psalmes / himnes ād other songes of prayse (as this is) make y ^• first ende of the verse to ex poūde y ^• last ād the last to expoūde the first. He that obserueth this rule shall understonde verie moch in y ^• scripture although he be ignoraūte in the hebrue. So doth this place full well expoun de it selfe with out any imaginacion of pugato [...]. Conferre the first parte of y ^• verse vnto the [Page] last and you shall easelye perceaue it. The first parte of the halfe verse is thys. The lorde doth uylle / and that expoundeth the tother halfe of this verse where she sayeth / he leadeth doune to hell / so that in thys place to kille and to lea­de doune to hell ys all one thinge. And likewise in the seconde parte of the halfe verse / to quyc­ [...]en agayne ād bringe agayneis all one thynge. Now yt any man be so supersticious y ^t he dare not vnderstonde this thinge as fyguratelie spo [...] / then maye he verefye yt vppon them y ^t god raysed from naturall deeth as he dyd lazatum Io. 11. Ioan. xi. And albe yt no man can denye but y ^t this sence ys good ād y ^t the texte maye so be vn derstonde / yet in my minde we shal go more nye vnto the verye and pure truth / yf we expoun­de yt thus. The lorde doth kyll and quycken a­gayne / he leadeth doune to hell and bringeth agayne: that ys / he bringeth men in to extreme afflyccyon and miserye (which is sygnyfyed by deeth and hell) and after tourneth his face vnto them and maketh them to folowe hym. And to this well agreeth the. 78. psame y ^t speaketh of y ^• [...]. 78. chyldren of Israell (whych figure hys electe church and congregacion) Theyr yeares passed ouer in perpetuall trouble / when he distroyed [...] killed thē / then they sought hym / they tourned ād besought hym beselye. He meaneth not here that he had f [...]rst killed them by temporall deeth and after theyr deeth made them to seke hym: but that he had wropped them in extreme afflic cions and perpetuall troubles / and that he sore scourged them when they brake his commaun­demētes ād yet after turned his mercifull face vnto them.

[...] / if you will haue y ^• pure vndersto [...] [Page] [...]inge of this place / note y ^• wordes of y ^•. 3. childrē dani. 3. which were cast in to the fornace of fyre Dani. 1. ād yet preserued frō deeth thorow y ^• mightie hā de of god / their wordes ād songe was this: Be­nedicite anania / azaria / misael domino / laudate et superexaltate eū in secula: quia eruit nos de inferno / & saluos fecit de manu mortis / & libera uit nos de medio ardētis flāme / et de medio ig­nis eruit nos. That is: blisse ye anania / azaria / and misael the lorde: prayse ād avaunce him for euer. For he hath plucked vs out of hell / & hath saued vs trō y ^• power of deeth. He hath deliue red vs frō the middes of the burninge flame / ād hath plucked vs out from the middes of the fy re. Here maie you se the same maner of speakin ge and how the last ende expoundeth the begin ninge. These children saye that god hath pluc­ked them out of hell / and yet were they neyther dampned nor in purgatorye nor deed. But the nexte parte of this verse expoūdeth theyr mea­ninge which sayeth he hath saved vs from the hand or power of deeth. So maye ye know that to be plucked out of hel / ād to be saved frō y ^• po­wer of deeth / are al one thinge. And againe whe re they saye that god hath delyvered thē frō y ^e burninge flame / & that he hath plucked thē frō y ^t middes of y ^• fire / is all one sense as euerye childe maye well perceyue: ād therfore is M. More to blame to be so busie seinge he vnderstōdeth not y ^• phrase & maner of speach of the scrypture.

THē brigeth he in y ^• prophete zacharie why M More zacharye ch sayeth. ‘Tu quoqz i sanguine testamēti tui eduxisti victos tuos de lacu i quo nō erat a­qua. Thou hast in y ^• bloude of thy testamēt bro ught out thy boūdē prisoners out of y ^• pitte or lake i which there was no water. Now in hel is [Page] there no redempcion / and in limbo patrum the soule [...] were in rest? wherfore yt appereth clere­lye that those prysoners which he brought out of theyr payne / he brought onlye out of purga­torye’

Thys texte is spoke zacharie. 9. for a full an [...] swere of this texte I neded no more but to brin [...]. 9. ge the auctorite of my lorde of Rochestre agēst him. For he expoundeth the place of y ^• spalme [...]sal. 66 66. for purgatorie / whych sayeth. [...] per ignē et aquam et [...] nos in refrigeriū we haue gone thorow fyre and water and thou hast brought vs in to colonesse: If thys texte of the [...] serve for purgatorye whych say­eth that there ys both fyre and water / as my lorde of Rochestre doth afferme and bryngeth also orygene to conferme yt / then can not this place of zacharye serve / whych sayeth that there ys no water. And so must Master Mo More [...]d [...] can not a [...] re nedes be ouersene / for Orygene and Ro­chestre be able to waye vpp hym. Here myght I saye vnto them both that they shul­de fyrst agre wyth in them selves and then wolde I shape them an answere. How be yt I know my parte so sure that I wyll confu te them both / and proue that neyther nother place speaketh any thynge of this painfull pur gatorye that they descrybe. But My lorde of Rochesters auctoryte shalbe dyfferred vntill the thyrde parte whych shalbe a severall boke agenst hym.

[...]his place verelie approueth not purgatorye but sheweth y ^• vertue of christes redēpciō which thorow his bloude redemed his captiues [...] pry­soners y ^t is to saye thē whō he founde bounde ☞ with y ^e strōge bondes of sinne vnto euerlastige [Page] dāpnacion which were subiectes vnto the [...] ād y ^• extreme enemies of god / but whi calleth h [...] thē his? verelie because they were chosē in christ Iesu before the beginninge of the worlde / that they with him and thorow him shuld enioye y ^• everlastinge enheritaunce of heaven. [...] are they called bounde and prisoners? Surelye be­cause they were captyves / bounde and empreso ned vnder the devill thorow the sinne that [...]dā Rom. [...]. committed Romano. v. Why sayeth he that he delyvered them out of the pitte where in is no water? Forsouth that is even as moch to saye / as he delivered them out of hell & from eternall dampnacion. Thou wilt happlye saye / he delive red them not out of hell and from eternall dāp­nacion / for his presoners that is to saye / they y ^t shalbe saved never came there. I answere / that they shulde with out doubte haue gone thyther and haue bene damned perpetuallye / except y ^t christ by his deeth had delivered and loosed thē And therfore saieth the scripture that Christ d [...] ly vereth vs out of hell / because he saveth and delyvereth vs y ^t we come not there / which els shulde surelye entre into it for ever. It is also a comen maner of speach amōge vs / if a mā shuld go to prison for debte or any such matter / and one of his frendes come in the meane ceason which pacefyeth the aduersaryes and payeth y ^t debte / then maye we well saye / that he hath de ly vered this man out of prison although he ca­me not there / but shulde haue gone thyther. And [...] wyse when we saye that such a man hath de ly [...]ered his frende from the galowes / we meane not that he was all readye hanged / for then we [...] re the deliveraunce to late / but we meane that he delyvered him that he shulde not be hanged. [Page] Furthermore if a man might be bolde to [...] [...] questiō [...] master More Master More whether Christ haue redemed / loosed and delivered him in the bloude of his te stament? I thinke he wold answere y [...]ee. Now if we shuld aske him further / from whence he hath delivered him? I am sure he is not so igno raunte as to saye that christ hath delivered him from purgatorye / but even that he hath delyve red him from eternall deeth and dampnacyon. And so hath Christ velyvered vs from the pitte wherin is no water / that is to saye / from hell & everlastinge dampnacyon / not that we were in hell all readye (although we were bounde vnder sinne and readye to be cast therin but because we shuld not entre in to hell. This is the pure vnderstondinge of the te [...]te. Here might I dis­pute with him both of hell and of limbus patrū but because I will be as shorte as possible is / I will deferre that vntill a nother occasion / that I may [...] reason with him sumwhat at large.

‘ANother place is there also in the olde testa [...]. More. ment that putteth purgatorie quyte out of question. For (sayeth he) what is playner then the places which in the boke of the Machabees Macha [...] [...]. made mencyon of the devoute remembraunce / prayoure / almoyse & sacrifice to be done for sou­les / when the good and holye man Iudas Ma­chabeus gathered monye amonge the people to buye sacrifyce with all to be offered vp for the soules of them that were deed in the batayle. What shifte finde they here? Surelye a verye shamlesse shifte and are [...] to take them to that taklinge which is their shoteāker alwaye / when they finde the storme so greate that they se their shippe goeth al to wracke.’ For first they [...]se to sette some false glosse vnto the texte / and [Page] if that helpe not / then falle they to a shamelesse boldnesse / and let not to denye the scripture and all.

The place which he recyteth is writē. 2. Ma Frith. chabeo. 12. And to saye the truth / the boke is not 2. Ma. 12. of [...] auctorite to make an article of ou­re faith: neyther is it admitted in the canon of y ^• hebrues. Here he obiecteth that the church hath [...]lowed it / and the holye doctoures / as. S. Hiero me. S. Austine and soch other. I answere. S. Hieromes minde is opened vnto vs by the pi­stle which he wrote before the proverbes of So lomon / his wordes are these. Sicut Iudith et Tobie et Machabeorum libros / ligit qui [...] eo [...] ecclesia / sed inter canonicas scripturas non reci pit / sic et hec duo volumina legat ad edificatio­nem plebis / non ad authoritat [...]m ecclesiasticorū dogmatum confirmandum. That is / like as the church doth read y ^• bokes of Iudith / Thobias / and the Machabees / but receaveth them not e­monge the canonicall scriptures / even so let it read these two bokes (he meaneth y ^• boke of sa­pience and ecclesiasticus) vnto the edefyinge of the people / and not to confirme the doctrine of the church therbye. And it is nothinge like that ☜ S. Austayne shulde dissente from. S. Hierom / for they were both in one tyme / yee and. S. Hie­rom out lyved. S. Austayne. And therfore the church coulde not admitte any such bokes ey­ther before. S. Austaynes tyme or in his tyme / but that. S. Hierom shulde haue knowne of it. And so maye you gather that if. S. Austayne [...]lowe these bokes / or els saie y ^t the church hath alowed thē / you maye not vnderstōde y ^t they ha ue alowed and receaved them as canonicall scri ptures / for then you make. S. Hierom a [...]. [Page] But thus you must vndersto [...]de it / that they ha ue receaved them to be red for the edefyinge o [...] the people / and not to confirme the doctrine of the church or articles of the faith therby accor­dinge to. S. Hieroms exposition. Now may [...] you se y ^t oure shoteanker (as he calleth it) is so stronge that al his stormes and waves can not once move it / for we denye not but that the bo­ke is receaved of y ^e church to be red and weshe­we by. S. Hierome for whate enten [...] it is recea­ved and red / not to proue any article of oure faith therbye / but onlye to ordre oure maner of lyvinge therafter in soch poyntes as are not re pugnaunte vnto the canonicall scripture.

But yet for this once / to do the man pleasu re we will let slippe oure shoteanker and take 1 the sees with him. And for all their furious win des ād frothye waves / we will never stricke say le / so stronge is oure shippe aud so wel belanced Be it in case that this boke of the Macabees were of as god auctorite as Esai yet can he not prove this fyrye and paynefull purgatorye ther [...]ye. For it speaketh not one worde neyther of fyre nor payne / but it speaketh of a sacrifyce offered for the deed that they might be loosed from their sinnes / because there is a resurrecciō of the deed / which maye well be with out any payne or fyre. So that this conclusion is ve­rye ba [...] and naked: It is good to offer sacrifyce for the deed that they maye be loosed from their sinnes / ergo there is a sensible fyre which doth punish the holye ād chosen people of god. I am sure there is no childe / but he maye perceave y ^t this argument is nought.

Besides that it is to be doubted whether 2 [Page] Iudas did well or not in offerings this sacrify­ce. And therfore oug [...]t we not of a folish pre­sumpcyon to folowe his facte vntill we knowe how it was accepted. Parad venture thou wilt saye that the dede is commended in the sayed te xte / where it sayeth: But because he considered that they which with godlines had entred thei­re slepe (that is their deeth) had good favoure layed vpp in store for them / therfore is the remē braunce to praye for the deed hoiye and ho [...]eso­me / that they maye be loosed from their sinnes. I answere / that the persones which were slay­ne in the battayle for whom this prayer and sa­crifyce was made / were founde to haue vnder their clokes oblacyons of idolles which were at Iamniam / and for that cause were they slayne as it is playne in the texte / yee and all the host praysed the right iudgement of god. Now these men that were so slayne were dampned by the lawe. Deutero. 7. which sayeth. The images of Deut. 7 their goddes thou shalt burne with fyre / and se that thou covette not the silver or golde that is on them nor take it vnto the lest thou be snared therwith / for it is an abominacion vnto the lor­de thy god. Bringe not therfore the abominaciō vnto thine house lest thou be a dampned thinge as it is: But vtterlye defye it and abhorre it for it is a thinge that must be destroyed. Of this maye we evidētlye perceave / that albe al [...]e [...] did this thinge of a good minde / yet was he de ceaved / for his sacrifyce coulde nothinge hel­pe them sith they were dampned by the lawe / and entred not their slepe with godlinesse as he supposed.

Huthermore / it is evident that the Iewes 3 [...] sacrifices for the sinnes of them that lyved [Page] Leuitici 4 5 6. [...]. But how knew they that tho se sacrifyces shuld extend [...] them selues vnto the sinnes of the deed? And they were commaunded vnder the payne of cursinge that they shuld ad­de nothinge vnto the worde of god Deuter. 12. [...]. 12. Uerelye it is like that the preastes even at that tyme sought their awne profytte / abused thesa ☞ [...]: fyces / and deceaved the simple people.

Master More also sayeth / that the monye 4 was sent to buye sacrifices which shuld beoffe­red for the sinne of the slayne. Now knoweth everye christen that all maner of sacrifices and offeringes were nothinge but figures of Christ which shuld be offered for the sinne of his peo­ple. So that when Christ came / all sacrifyces ād oblacions ceased. If thou shuldest now offer a calfe to purge thy sinne / thou were no doubte in iuryous vnto the bloude of Christ / for if thou thought his bloude sufficent / then woldest thou not seke a nother sacrifyce for thy sinne.

yee I will go further with you there was not 5 one sacrifice in the olde testament that purged or toke awaye sinne. For the bloude of oxen or gootes can not take awaye sinne Hebreorum. x. [...]. 10 But all the sacrifyces which were then offered / ☞ did but signefye that Christ shuld come and be made a sacrifyce for vs / which shuld purge oure sinne for ever. Now were their sacrifices ād ob­lacions institute of god and yet could they not take awaye sinne: But onlye signifyed y ^t Christ thorow his bloude shulde take it awaye / what madnes thē is come in to oure braynes that we thinke that oure oblacyons which are ordeyned but of oure awne imaginacion shuld take awa­ye [Page] sinne?

Uvhat if Iudas gathered soch an offeringe in the olde testament / shuld it then folowe that 6 we must do so to / which knowe that Christ is to me and that all oblacyons are ceased in him? shall we become Iewes and go backe agayne to the shadowe and ceremonye sith we haue the bodye and signification which is Christ Iesu? Be it that Iudas were a holye man / might he not yet do amisse? Be it in case that he did well / shall we therfore streight wayes out of his wor ke grounde an article of oure faith? Dauid was an holye man and yet committed [...]e both murther and ad voutrye shall we with out fur­ther enserchinge the scriptures streyght wayes folow his example? [...] was an holye man and was commaunded of god to offer his awne sonne / shall we offer oure children therfore? Ge dion and Iosua destroyed the vnfaithfull kin­ges and princes and dyd well and were preysed of god. Must we do so to? And wherfore shall we more folowe the example of Iud [...]s then of the other? Shall I tell you whye? verelye for this example of Iudas bringeth monye vnto oure spiritualtye. These. xij. thousande drach­mas shyne so bright in their yies / that with out other candell lantren or spectacles they haue espyed an article of oure faith. you maye not cō sidre that they haue taken this texte of. xij. thou sand drachmas for a pistle in soule masses / for then parad venture you might fall in to some sh [...]ewed suspeccion / that they shuld do it of co­vetuousnes / which faute [...] be espied in ou­ [...]e spiritualtye / as you know well ynough.

He y ^• holdeth any ceremonye of the lawe as 7 [Page] necessarie / is bounde to kepe and fulfill the hole lawe. This is evident of Paule. Gala. 6. where Gala. 6. he sayeth / If ye be circumcysed / then are ye de [...] toures to fulfill the hole lawe. That is if ye put any confidence in circumcysiō or recounte it as necessarie (for [...] it is of it silfe neyther good nor evell) then make you youre selues bonde vn der the lawe which burthen neyther we nor ou­re [...]. 15 fathers coulde beare / and tempte god. Act. 15 And this sacrifice of Iudas was but a ceremo­nye Ba [...]tel & signifyed y ^t christ shuld with his bloude quench oure sinnes. ergo. he y ^t kepeth or counte th this ceremonye as necessarye (as are a [...] y ^• arti cles of y ^• faith) doth captiu [...] him silfevnder y ^• lawe & tēpteth god to speake nomore sharpelye

yet will I go a litle nere vnto you. Iudas him silfe beleved not that there was a 8 purgatorye. For in the tyme of the olde testament there was no purgatorye as the scolemē graunte thē selues but onlye a place of rest which they cal­led limbus patrum: wherfore they are pituous ☞ lye deceaved that will prove purgatorye by the t [...]xtes of the olde testament / sith / as they saye thē selves / there was no purgatorye at y ^t tyme.

[...]ynallye / I can not finde a place that of it silfe more properlye confuteth this phantastical 9 purgatorye / thē doth this same texte which they sticke so sore to / imageninge that it stablisheth purgatorye. The texte sayeth on this maner / ex cepte he had hoped that they which were slayne shuld ryse agayne / It shuld seme voyed and in vayne to praye for the deed. If you fayne a pur gatorye thē must this texte nedes be false. for be it in case that the deed shuld not ryse agayne. Now saith the texte that it were voyed ād in vayne to praye for the deed if they shuld not ri [Page] [...]e agayne. But if there were a purgatorye whe ☜ rin they shulde be purged and punished in the meane ceason / then were it not in vayne to pra ye for them to delyuer them out of that payne / but rather verye frutefull and necessarye altho­ugh they shuld never rise agayne. ād therfore if this texte be of auctorite / it is impossible y ^t the­re shuld be any purgatorye / neyther is there a­ny texte that in my iudgement can better vnder mine purgatorye and make it fall

Parad venture you desyre to knowe my min de in this place / and that I shuld expounde vn­to you what Iudas ment in his oblacion sith he thought of no purgatorye as the for sayde texte doth well specefye. Uerelye I thinke that Iudas beleued that there shuld be a resurrecci­on / as this texte prayseth him sayenge / thinkin ge well and devoutelye of the resurrection. For emonge the Iewes there were manye that bele ved not the resurrection of oure flesch / ād they that beleved it were yet so rude and ignoraun­te / that they thought they shuld ryse but to op­tayne a carnall kingdone and haue their enemi­es subdued vnder them with out rebelliō. And therto sticke the Iewes vnto this daye. And it is most like y ^t this shuld be his meaninge / we shal all ryse agayne and possesse this londe in pe ace / and these men which are slayne are out of the fauoure of god because they haue cōtrarye Deute. 7. to y ^• lawe. Deut. 7. taken of the Idolles oblaci­ons / therfore is it best that we sende a sacrifice vnto Ierusalem to pacefye the wrath of god towardes them / lest when they rise agayne the lorde shuld sende some plage amongest vs for theyr transgression which they committed whi le they were here lyvinge. If any man can bet­ter [Page] gesse I am wel contēt to admitte it / but this is plaine ynough: he thought that this sacrifice could not helpe thē before they shuld rise agay­ne / which doth fullye destroye purgatorye. For where he sayeth that it were voyed and in vay­ne to praye for y ^• deed excepte they shuld ryse a­gayne: Is euen as mo [...]h to saye vnto him that hath any wytte / as that this prayer and sacrify ces can do them no good before they be rysen a­gayne frō deeth: for els were it not in vayne to praye for thē although they shuld never ryse a­gayne. As by example / if I saye to a mā that he shall neuer optaine his purposse excepte he shul de sue to y ^• kinges grace / it is even as moch to saye to a m [...] y ^• hath any witte / as he shall neuer optayne hys purposse before he hath sued to y ^• kinges highnes.

Master More goeth a boute to [...]est them Master out of contenaunce whych saye that the boke [...] of Machabees ys not autentyke because yt ys not receaved in the Canon of the hebrues and sayeth that by thys reason we maye also denye y ^• boke of sapience and proue oure selues insip [...] ent [...]s: but [...] / if he admitte the boke of sap [...] ence to be true and autentike / I feare me it will go nye to proue him an insipient for grauntyn­ge y ^t there is a purgatorie. Reade y ^•. 45. argu­ment ag [...]st Rastell ād thē iudge whether I saie true or not.

Hetherto haue I let slippe oure shoteanker & haue runne y ^• sees with him / graūtinge him for 10 h [...]s pleasure y ^t thys boke shulde be of as good auctorite as Esai. Not that the church or holie doctours / or ani wise mā supposeth it of so good auctorite / but onelye to se whate / cōclusion my­ght be brought vppō it (y ^t once graūted) And if [Page] any mā wold require my iudgemēt as cōcernin ge this boke / I wolde shortlye answere that ey ther thys boke is false ād of no auctoryte / or els that Christ and hys apostles all holye doctou­res and scolemen therto are false and with out auctoryte. For he that admitteth prayers and sacrifyce to be done for the deed / yee and also af fermeth that they are holye and holesom for­such sinnes as are damned by the lawe of god (which are in dede verye mortall) doth not he a genst the worde of god / yee and also agen [...]t the comen consent of all men? But thys boke doth so: whych admitteth prayer and sacryfice to be done for the deed that were slaine in the battay le for their offence / yee ād also dampned by the law Deutero. 7. Now conclude youre selves what ye thinke of this boke. Deu. 7.

Thus moch hath Master More brought (to proue hys purposse) out of the old testamēt and I thynke ye se yt suffycyentlye answered. And now he entendeth to proue hys purga torye by good and substancy all auctory te in the new testament also.

FIrst let vs considre (saieth Master More) the wordes of y ^• blessed apostle ād e [...]ange M. More gelist. S. Ioan. where he sayeth. Est peccatū ad 1. Ioan. 5. mortē / nō dico vt pro eo roget qs There is saith he some synne y ^t is vnto the deeth / I byd not y ^• any man shulde praye for y ^t / this synne as y ^• in terpreters agre ys vnderstonden of despera­cyon and impenitencie / as though Sayint Io­an / wolde saye / that who departe out of thys worlde impenytent or in despayre / any pray­er after made can never stande hym in stede. [Page] ‘Then it appareth clerelye that. S. Ioan. mea [...] neth that there are other which dye not in such case for whom he wolde men shulde praye / beca use that prayer / to such soules maye be profita­ble. But that profyte can no man take beinge in hea [...]en where et nedeth not nor beinge in hell where it boteth not / wherefore it appeareth y ^• such praier helpeth onlye for purgagorye / which thou must therfore nedes graunte excepte thou denye.’ S. Iohan.

The texte is writen. 1. Ioan. 5. which sayeth Frith. there is a sinne vnto the deeth / I bid not that 1. [...]an. 5. any man shal praye for that. In this place doth Master More vnderstōde by this worde deeth / temporall deeth / and then he taketh his pleasu­re. But we will desyre him to loke. ij. lynes abo ue / and not to snatch one pece of the texte on this facion. I wil reherse you the hole texte and then ye shall heare myne answere. The texte is this / if any man perceave that his brother doth [...] / a sinne not vnto the deeth / let him aske & he shall geue him liffe / to thē that sinne not vn­to [...]th. For there is somme sinne that is vnto dee th / I bid not that any man shulde praye for tha [...]. Now [...] myne answere. Deeth an lif­fe [...] contrarye and both wordes are in this tex te / t [...] if you vnderstonde this worde deeth [...] emporall deeth / thē must you also vnderstō de [...] this worde liffe / tēporall liffe. And so shul­ [...] ☞ [...] prayer restore men agayne vnto tempo rall [...]. But I ensure you / Mastre More ta­ket [...] this worde deeth so confusedlye / that no [...] can tell what he meaneth. For in one place he taketh it for temporall deeth / sayenge / who so [...] out of this worlde impenitēt &c̄. and [...] a nother place he is compelled to take it for [Page] therlastinge deeth. Therfore will I shewe you y ^• very vnderstondinge of y ^• texte. And better in [...]erpreters desyre I none then Christ him s [...]lfe which sayed vnto the pharisees / everye blasphe Marc. iij. mye shall be forgeuen / but the blasphemye agēst the holye gost (which. S. Ihoan calleth a sinne vnto the deeth) shall never be forgeven / but is [...]iltye vnto everlastinge dampnacion. Mar. iij. [...]hat sinne or blasphemye is this? [...]erelye y ^• declareth. S. Marc. sayenge: Th [...]y sayed that he had an vnclene sprete that was the sinne vn to deeth everlastinge / that was the sinne / that shulde never be forgeven. He proved so evident lye vnto them that his miracles were done with the sprete of god / that they coulde not denye it. [...]nd yet of an harde and obstinate harte / even knowinge the contrarye / they sayed that he had [...] devell with in him. These pharisees died not forth with / but l [...] ved paraduenture manye yes­ [...]es after. Notwithstondinge if all the apostles had prayed for these [...] whyles they we­re yet ly vinge / for all that their sinne shulde ne­ver haue bene forgeuen them. And truth it is that after they died in impenitencye and dispe­ta [...]on / which was the frute of that sinne / but not the sinne it silfe.

Now se ye the meaninge of this texte / and The pu [...] vnderston dinge. what the sinne vnto deeth or agenst the holye [...]ost is. If any man perceave his brother [...]o sin­ne a sinne not vnto deeth / that is / not agen [...] y ^t holye gost: let him aske and he shall geve him lif fe / that is / let him praye vnto god for his brother and his sinne shalbe forgeuen him. But if h [...] se his brother sinne a sinne vnto deeth y ^• is / agēst the holye gost / let him never praye for him for it [...]oteth not. And so is not the texte vnderstonde [Page] of prayer after this liffe (as Master More ima­geneth) but even of prayer for oure brother which is ly vinge with vs.

Notwithstondinge this sinne is not lighlye knoune / excepte y ^• persone knowlege it him sil­fe / or els the [...] of god open it vnto vs. Ther fore maye we praye for all men / excepte we haue evident knowlege that they haue so offended as is before rehersed. And thus is his texte takē from him wherwith he laboureth to prove pur­gatorye.

Uvhat saye they to the wordes of S. Ioan. M. More ‘Apoca. 5. I haue harde (sayeth he) everye creatu [...]. 5 re that is in heaven and vppon the erth / and vn der the erth / and that be in the see and all thin­ges that be in them / all these haue I harde saye / benediction / and honoure / and glorye / and po­wer for ever be to him / that is sittinge in the tro ne and vnto y ^o lambe.’ By the creatures in hea­ven he meaneth angelles. By the creatures vp­pon [...] the erth / he meaneth men. By the creatures vnder the erth / he meaneth the soules in purga­torye. And by the creatures in y ^• see he meaneth men that sayle on the see.

By this texte I vnderstonde not onlye angel les and men / but also heaven and erth and all y ^• [...]rith. is in them / even all beestes / fishes / wormes / and other creatures and thinke that all these crea­tures do prayse the lorde. And where he taketh the creatures vnder the erth for y ^• soules in pur gatorye: I take it for all maner of creatures vn­der the erth / both wormes [...] and all other And where he draweth the texte and maketh y ^• creatures in the see / to signifye mē that are say­linge on the see: I saye that the creatures in the see do signifye fishes / and such other thinges / [...] [Page] that. S. Ioan by this texte ment even playnlye that all maner of thinges geue prayse vnto god and the lambe / yee and I dare be bolde to adde that even the verye devels and damned soules are cōyelled to praise him. For their iust punish­ment commendeth his puysaunte power and rightwisenes. Neyther neadest thou to wondr [...] or thinke. this any new thinge for Dauid in y ^• 148 / biddeth serpentes bestes ād birdes to pray­se the lord / as it is also writen [...]. iij. And Paule sayeth. Roma. 8. All maner of creatures longe for oure redempcyon and prayse god for it / yee and mourne that the last daye is not yet come that the electe children of god might entre in to rest: for then shall also those creatures be [...] vered from their corrupcyon and bondage in to the libertye and glorye of the children of god. Now iudge christen reader which sentence stondeth most with the scrip­ture and glorye of god.

DOth not the blessed apostle. S. Peter as it m. Mor [...] appeareth Actes. ij. saye of oure savioure Christ in this wyse. ‘Quem deus suscitauit solu tis doloribus inferni.’ In these wordes he she­wed that paynes of hell were loosed: but those paynes were not the paynes of dampned sou­les. And in limbo patrum there was no payne / [...]rgo it was the paynes of purgatorye which he loosed.

Alas / what shall I saye? I am in a maner Frith compelled to saye that this man wandereth in wilfull blindnesse. For els were it not possible y ^t he shulde erre so farre as to bringe in this texte for his purposse.

The wordes of Peter are these / ye mē of Israel heare these wordes: Iesus of Nazareth a man [Page] sette forth of god for you with powers / won­dres and tokens which god hath done by him a monge you (as you youre selues knowe) after he was delyvered by the purposed councell and for [...]knowlege of god / and you receaved him of the handes of the wyked / ye crucyfyed and kil­led him / whom god hath raysed dissoluynge the paynes of deeth / for it was impossible that he shulde be subdued of it. Here in steade / of these wordes / the paynes of deeth / he setteth the pay­nes of hell (as it is most like) even of a purposed deceyte. For all be it the man wold not take the payne to read y ^• greke / yet if he had but once lo­ [...]ed vppon the translacion of his olde frinde ād companion Erasmus / it wolde haue taught him to haue sayed solut is doloribus mortis / that is / dissolvinge the paynes of deeth / aceordinge to y ^• greke ād verye wordes of luke which wrote the se Actes in the greke tongue.

And albeit the olde translacion vseth this worde infernus / which is diverslye taken in scri pture / both for deeth / for a graue ād for hell / yet in this place is Master More with out excuse which calleth it hell in oure Englishe tongue. For all be it the worde of it silfe were indifferēt in the latyne / yet it is not indifferent in the En­glish. For there is none Englishe man that ta­keth this worde hell / eyther for deeth or for a [...] / no not Master More him silfe. For first he translateth the texte falselye callinge it hell / ād then he discanteth on a false grounde ād calleth hell / not deeth / but purgatory. [...] S. [...] brought in these wordes for no nother purposs [...] but to proue that Christ was rysen from deeth thorow the power of his father / meaninge that god the father did rayse his sonne Christ not­withstondinge [Page] the sorowfull paynes and pa [...] ­ges which he suffered vnto the deeth / for it was impossible that Christ shulde be vtterlye sub­dued of deeth. So that this texte proveth no more purgatorye / then it proveth that Maste [...] More was hyred of the spiritualtye to defende purgatorye. Besides that / if it shulde serve for purgatorye (which no wysem [...]n will graunt [...] when he seeth the processe of the texte) it shoulde proue nothinge but that Christ shulde lye in th [...] paynes of purgatorye / vntill god his father had holpe him out / for the paynes which he speaketh off / were Christes paynes / which no man can de nye if he reade the texte. But whate a fonde o [...] nion were that / to fayne that Christ which was with out sinne shulde be tourmented in y ^• pay­nes of purgatorye?

[...]he blessed apostle Paule in his first epistle to the Corinthians the thirde chaptre spea M. [...] kinge of oure savioure Christ the verye and on 1. Cor. 3 lye fundacyon of all oure faith and saluacyon / sayth. ‘If anye man bylde vppon this fundacyō golde / siluer / preciousstones / wod / haye or stra­we / everye mans worke shalbe made open / for the daye of the lorde shall declare it / for in the fire it shalbe shewed / and the [...] shall prove what maner of thinge [...] mannes worke is If anye mānes worke that he hath buylded the ten do abyde / he shall haue a rewarde / if anye mannes worke burne / he shall suffre harme / but he shalbe saffe / but yet as by fire.’ And finallye cō cludeth that this worde fire / must signifye the fi [...] of purgatorye.

[...]e that considereth the ordre and processe Frith. of the texte shall easelye perceyue that this man [Page] [...]. For the texte speaketh of the preachers / and blameth the corinthians that they made soch sectes ād dissensions emonge them selves / for one sayed that he was Paules man and he [...] de on his syde. A nother sayed that he was Pe­ters man. The thirde did sticke to Apollo and so forth / even as oure fryres do now a dayes / one secte holdeth on S. fraunces / A nother of S Dominike / the thirde of. S. Austyne. [...]. S. Pau le rebuked these sectes and called the persones carnall / commaundinge them to take Christ for their hed and to cleave onlye to him. And as for Apollo / Peter and Paule / he sayth that they are but ministres of the worde / everye man ac­cordinge to the gifte geven him of god / the one more the other lesse.

[...]aule planted Apollo watred / that is / Pau le set the corinthians in the grounde of Christes faith / and then came Apollo and preached them further of Christ and comforted them to abyde in the waye which they walked in. How be it / it was onlye god that made them prosper in the worde and gave the encrease. Neverthelesse eve rye man shall receave accordinge to his labou­re. If he preach moch the more shalbe his rewar de / if he preach litle / therafter shall he be rewar ded. For we are goddes workemē to preach his worde / and you are goddes husbandrye who­me we must till and dresse in declaringe you the worde and perpetuall will of god / you are beco­me goddes buyldinge thorow the grace of god which he hath geven me / whom we must fra­me and so couch by the worde of god that we maye make of you a temple of lyvinge stones. Like a wyse workemaster haue I layed the fun [Page] dacyon / for I first begane to preach you Christ. Now cometh there a nother and buyldeth vp­pon this my fundacyon entendinge to enstru [...] cte you further in the wayes of Christ. But let everye man take hede how he buyldeth or pre­ach vnto you / for no man can laye any other fundacion then is layed all readye / for al oure buyldinge and preachinge leneth onlye on this poynte and principall stone / to declare vnto you what Christ hath done for you.

If any buylde on this fundation golde / sil­ver or precious stones / that is / if any mā preach purelye the worde of god / which is lykened to golde / silver / and precious stones / because that as these are not consumed with materiall fire / but rather made more pure / even so the pure worde of god suffreth neyther hurte nor dama­ge in spirituall fire / that is temptacion and per­secution.

Or els if any man buylde vppon this fun­dacion wod / haye or stubble / that is / if a man of good entente (but yet thorow ignoraunce) pre­ach and teach you to sticke vnto ceremonyes ād mennes tradicions (although they seme never so glorious) and to soch thinges as are not grounded on scripture (as. S. Cipriane taught Ciprian and defended to rebaptise him / that was once baptized and after fallen in to heresye / yee and manye bisshopes consented vnto him / yet was it surelye a greate erroure) this is wod / haye and stubble that cā not endure the fire of temp tacyon and light of goddes worde.

[...]verye [...] worke shalbe declared for y ^t [Page] daye shall open it. Albeit it prospere for a ceason in the darke and can not be perceyved / yet whē the daye cometh / which is the light of goddes worde / it shalbe espyed and iudged. The daye shall open it that shalbe revelated in fyre / and the fyre shall proue everye mannes worke what it is. Fyre signifyeth temptaciō / tribulacyō / per­secution. &c̄. which shal proue everye mannes workes. If anye mannes worke that he hath buylded do abyde this fyre / that is / if the worde that a man hath preached do abyde all assautes and temptacions / it is a token that they ar su­relye grounded on the scripture of god / and thē shall the preacher receyve his rewarde. If anye mannes worke be burnte / that is if y ^• preachers word [...]s will not abyde the tryall and light but vani [...]h awaye / then is it a token that they are not well grounded on scripture / and so shall he suffre hurte / for it shalbe a greate crosse and vex acyon to the preachers harte that he hath bene so deceyved him silse and hath also led other in to his erroure. Notwithstondinge he shalbe sa­ved / because of his faith in the fundaciō / which is Christ / and his ignorāunce shalbe pardoned sith he erreth not of a malicious purposse but of a good zele. But yet shall it be as it were a fyre to him / for it shall greue his harte to se that he hath laboured in vayne / and that he must de­stroye the same which he before thorow igno­raunce preached: this is the processe ād pure vn derstondinge of the texte.

There ys no man but he graūteth y ^• these wordes / fundacyon / layinge of fundacyon / buyl dynge / golde / syluer / precyous stoones / wod / haye and stubble are figuratyuelye spoken: and [Page] why can they not suffre that thys worde [...] be so takē to? But where thei finde this worde fyre / what so ever the processe be / there plance they purgatorye by and by / wyth out any fur­ther consyderacyon. And yet yf they had any iudg [...]ment at all / they myght well perceaue by paules awne wordes that he toke not this wor de fyre fore materyall fyre / as they grosselye ima gyne) but proceded in hys allygorye and spake yt fyguratyuelye: for paule sayeth / he shalbe sa ued / but so as yt were thorow fyre. Marke well hys wordes / he sayeth not that he shal be saved thorow fyre / But as yt were thorow fyre sygnyfyinge that yt shalbe a greate [...] and vexatyon vnto hym. So that by these wordes of paule / a verye chylde maye perceave what he ment.

Hurthermore / yf they be so styffnecked that they wyll not bowe to the truth / but [...] perseuer in theyr awne phantasyes sayninge a purgatorye out of thys place: then wyll I bol­delye saye vnto thē that there shall no man en­tre in to yt but onelye prechers. For in thys pla ce paule onlye speaketh of them / and affermeth that it is theyr preachynge and lerninge that shallbe so proued thorow fyre / and that such a preacher shalbe saued / but yet as yt were tho­row fyre And therfore maye the temporaltye be of good comforte / for I promysse them that by this texte they shall never haue hurte in thys theyr paynfull purgatorye.

[Page] ‘DOth not oure blyssed savioure hym selfe saye that there is a certen sinne whych a M More man maye so committe agenst the holye goost / Mat. 12. that yt shall never be remitted nor forgeuen / neyther in thys worlde nor in the worlde to co­me? Now when oure lorde sayeth that the blas phemye agenst the holy [...] goost shall not be for­ge ven neyther in thys worlde nor in the worl de to come / he geveth vs clere knowlege / that of other sinnes some shalbe forgeven in thys worlde and some in the worlde to come.’

Although thys argument be a verye Frith sophysme / yet is there neyther one rule in so phystrye that can proue thys argument / nor yet one sophyster so folysh as to graunte yt.

For yf I shulde saye vnto myne enemye that I wolde neyther forgeue hym as longe as I lyved nor after my deeth because he had done me some haynouse trespasse / then wolde men counte hym worse them mad that wolde saye / Frith wyl not forgeue hys enemye as longe as he lyveth nor after hys deeth / ergo some men will forgeue their enimyes after their deeth.

For when I saye that I wyll not forgeue hym neyther in my liffe nor after my deeth / I mea­ne that I wyll neuer forgeue hym / and ma­ke that addicion because he shulde not of folysh nes loke for any such forgevenesse.

But thus foloweth the argumēt well / it shall not be forgeuen in thys worlde nor in the worl de to come / ergo it shall neuer be forgeuen.

And even so doth Saynte Marce expounde these wordes of christ in the thyrde chaptre.

For Mathew sayeth in the. xii. He that spea­keth [Page] ag enst the holye goost / shall neuer haue yt forgeuen in this worlde nor in the worlde to Marc. 3. come: Marc. expoundeth yt thus / he that spea keth a blaspemye / agenst the holye gost / hath no remission for ever / but is giltye vnto euer­lastinge damnacyon.

But of thys haue I spoken suffycientlye befo­re (in solutynge the texte. 1. Ioan. 5.) both what the synne ys and also how the texte ys to be vnderstande.

Neyther affe [...]meth the scripture in anye place y ^t anye sinne ys forgeuē after this liffe / but saith be readye for ye knowe not the tyme when the lorde shall come / as who shulde saye / in thys lyfe ys remissyon and full mer cye to [...]e had / laboure therfore to attayne yt for after thys lyfe ys no such forgevene sse / but euē as y ^• lorde fyndeth y ^• so shal he iudge y ^•. Hys nexte & last argu mēt of scriptu re is thys ☜ M Mo [...]

‘CHryst saeyth / as yt ys rehersed in y ^•. xii. Mat. 12. of Mathew / y ^• men shall yelde a rekenyn­ge of everye ydle worde / and that shalbe after thys present lyffe. Thēwoteth euerye man that by that rekeninge ys vnderstonde a punyshmēt therfore / whych shall not be in hell / & moch lesse in heuē / ād therfore cā yt be now here els but in Frith purgatoye.’ [...] I haue not harde of a partone that so vnprofytable defendeth hys clyent / nor yet of any man that geueth hym sylfe such propre trippes to cast hym selfe / [Page] excepte he w [...]nt aboute to betraye and vtterlye destroye the parte which he wolde seme to fauo­ure / for this texte maketh more agenst him / thē anye that he brought before semeth to make wi th him. The wordes of Mathewe are these / I tell you that of everye idle worde that men spe ake / shall they yelde a rekeninge in y ^• daye of iu dgement / but that leuet [...] he out full craftelye. Now let vs reason of this texte. By the rekenin ge is vnderstonde a punishment for the sinne (as Master More sayeth him silfe) and this re keninge shalbe vppon the daye of dome / ergo then this punishment for sinne can not be befo­re the daye of dome / but eyther vppon or els af­ter the daye of dome. For god will not first pu­nish them and then after reken with thē to pu­nish them anewe. And so is purgatorye quyte excluded. For al they that ever imagined anye purgatorye do put it before the iudgement / for when christ cometh to iudgement / then ceaseth p [...]rgatorye as they all consent / neyther is there any prayer or sufrage which at that tyme cā do anye helpe at all. And so hath master More by this texte geven him silfe a propre fall

Here maye you se [...]ow strōge his reasons are and what will happen to him that taketh in hā de to defende the falsehed agenst the truth of goddes worde / for his reasons make more agēst him then with him. you maye wel knowe that if his matter had bene anye thinge likelye / he wol de haue coloured it if a nother facion. But sith such a patrone / so greatlye commended for his conveyaunce and wysedome / handleth this mat ter so slenderlye / you maye well mistrust his cau se. Th [...]s is the last reason grounded of scriptu­re wher with he hath laboured to proue purga­torye. [Page] And after his reason he rekeneth vpp the doctoures / ād saith for his pleasure that all ma­ke for him / but as touchinge the doctours I wil make a suffycient answere in the thirde parte which is agenst my lorde of Rochestre.

Thus he leueth the scripture which he hath full vnmanerlye handled / and now endevou­reth him silfe to proue his purposse by some pro bable reasons / And first he bringeth in his olde argument that the church can not erre / to the which reason I nede not to answere / for wylly­am Tindale hath declared abundantlye / in a treatise which by goddes grace you shall short­lye haue / whate the church is / and also that it both maye erre and doth erre / if the pope ād his adherentes be the church as master More ima­gineth. M. More

‘After this he cōfirmeth his phantasye with phantasticall apparicions / sayenge: that there haue in everie contre and in everye age ap paricions bene had / and wel knowne and testi­fyed / by which men haue had suffycient reuela­tion and pro [...]e of purgatorye. How manye ha­ue / by goddes most gracious fauoure / appered to their frendes after their deeth / and shewed them selves holpen and delyuered thence by pil grimages / almosedede / prayer &c̄. If they saye y ^• these be lyes / then be they moch worse thē their master Luther him silfe / for he cōsenteth in his sermons that manye such apparicions be tru [...] / and if they be true / then must there nedes be a purgatorye.’

Here playeth master More the sotle soph [...] [Page] [...]ter and wolde deceave mē with a fallace which lyeth in this worde / true / so that whē he sayeth that such apparicions be true / this sentence ma ye be taken two maner of wayes. One / that it is true that such phātastical apparicions do ap peare to diverse / and that I thinke no man be so folish but he will graunte him.

And yet in dede are they no soules but ve­rye devels that so appeare to delude men / that they shulde falle from the faith of Christ and make a god of their awne workes trustinge to be saved therebye. But to suppose this true / y ^• they are the soules of purgatorye which so ap­peare / is verye fonde / false and agenst al scriptu re / for Esai sayeth / shall we goo for the quicke vnto the deed? that is / shall we enquyre of the [...]sal. 8. deed and beleue them in such poyntes as con­cerne oure welth? Naye saith he / but vnto the lawe and witnes / that is vnto god and his worde.

And so are we monished by Esay in the. 8. that we beleue no such phantasyes / we are also commaunded by the lawe of god / that we en­quyre not of the deed / not for the truth / for god abhorreth it Deuteronomye. xviij.

Besides that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus doth vtterlye condemne all such appa ricyons / that they are no soules which appeare but verye devels. For when the rich man desy­red that Lazarus might go and warne his bro­thren / that they shulde not come in to that pla­ce [...]. 16 of payne / Abraham answered / that they had Moses and the Prophetes / addinge also that if they beleved not them / then wolde they not beleue although one shulde ryse agayne and tell it th [...]m.

[Page]And so maye I conclude that it were in vay [...] to sende them any such apparicions of sou­ [...] / and that in verye dede there are no soules [...]ent of god / but that they are verelye devels w­hich come to delude the people / and to withdra­we them from Christ. Furthermore all men graunte that the appearinge of Samuel was but an illusion of the devell / thou shall finde y ^• 1. Reg. 28. storye. 1. Regum. xxviij.

It is not longe sith such a question was mo ved in oxforth / the thinge was this / there was a poore man of the countre / which was sore troubled with such apparicions / for there came a thinge to him which desyred him to go certay­ne pilgrimages and to do certayne other cere­monyes wherbye it sayed that it shulde be deli­vered from innumerable tourmentes which it now suffred. The poore man beleved that this thinge sayed truth / and did as it commaunded. Notwithstondinge it came so often vnto him / that what with laboure and whate with feare / the man was almost besides him silfe / and then was he sent to Oxforth to aske counsell what was best to be done. The question was moved to one doctoure Nicolas / and he affirmed by & by that it was no soule but the verye devell / ād that he shulde no more folowe the fendes appi­tite. Then was it moved to doctoure kington / and he affirmed the same. Finallye / they enquy­red of doctoure Roper what his minde was the rin / and he sayed that he wolde loke on his bo­ke / and when he had loked his pleasure / he gaue this answere. Let him alone awhyle (quod he) [...] I warrant you / y ^• this folowe shall eyther han­ge him silfe / or droune him silfe / or come to some other mische [...]. Thus determined these mē / wh [Page] [...]h are a greate deale to supersticious to dissent from any of the olde doctours / yee or els from theyr a wne scolemen. And yet wolde Master More make vs beleve that they were verie sou tes / and that by such ceremonyes they might b [...] delyvered.

Now cometh Master More to solute tho se two reasons that were brought agenst pur­ga torye in the supplycacyon of beggers / whych was the hole occasyon of hys boke. And marke how slēder his solucyōs are. The first reason is this. If there were any purgatorie out of which the pope might delyuer one soule by hys pardo ne / then maye he by the same auctoryte delyuer manye: and yf he maye deliver manye / thē maye he deliver them all. The seconde reason is this. If he can deliver them for monie: then maye he a [...]so deliver them wyth out monye. And then is he a verye cruell tyraunte whych hepeth th [...]m in paynes so intollerable (as he imagineth him selfe) vntill they paye monye.

THe first he soluteth on thys maner. ‘Syth [...]. More oure lorde sendeth thē thither for satisfac­cyon to be made in some maner for theyr synne: the pope shulde rather agenst goddes purposse delyver them fre them chaunge the maner of their satisfaccyon from payne in to prayer / al­mose or other good workes to be done by their frendes for them in some poynte profytable ād necessarye for the hole corps of christendome or some good membre of the same.’ Frith

[...]s concerninge satisfaccion / I haue spokē sufficientlye before agenst Rastell. The scriptu­re knoweth no nother satisfaccyon to be made for sinne towardes god / but only the bloude of hys sonne Iesu christ. for if there were a nother [Page] satisfaccyon / then dyed christ in vayne: yee and he that seketh anye other satisfaccyon for hys synne (towardes god) then christs bloude (why 1 ch must be receyved wyth a repentinge harte thorow faith) doth despyse christes bloude & trea de it vnder hys fete. And so ys the first parte of Master Mores solucyon false / that they shul­de be shutte in purgatorie to make satisfaccyō.

Besides that where he saieth that yf y ^e pope shulde so delyuer them / he shulde delyuer thē fre. I saye naye. For the pope cā deliuer no mā from thence vntyll satisfacciō be made / as both he ād all his ad herētes graūte. And therfore to finde awaye how he might seme to delyuer thē / he fayneth that he hath in hys handes the me­rytes of christes passyon / and the merites of al sayntes to destribute them at hys pleasure.

And therfore might y ^e pope applye the merites of christes passion ād of other sayntes vnto the se selye soules ād so deliuer thē. For those meri tes are ynough to satisfye for the soules in pur gatorye / if there were ten tymes so manye. And so shulde y ^• pope delyuer thē not fre / but chaū ­ginge the maner of their satisfaccyon from pay [...]e / in to merites of christes passion ād of al sain tes. And so is this reason not abated but ra­ther strōger thē it was before. Now be it to saie the truth / the merites of christes passion are on­lye dystrybuted vnto the faythfull / and that by god ād his sprete ād not by y ^• pope. And as for the merites of sayntes can not helpe other / for they haue to lytle for them selues yf god shul­de entre in to iudgemēt with thē psal. 104. And christ sayeth Luc. 17. whē you haue done al y ^t is Chryst sayeth commaunded you / saye we are vnprofytable servauntes. To thys well agreeth the parable [Page] of the ten virgins. Mat. 25. which coude not [...]e parte with any of their oyle / for feare that they shulde not haue had ynough fore them selves.

THe seconde reason byteth hym somwhat / and therfore he calleth it vnresonable and wolde avoyde it by an example on this wyse. ‘ [...]resupposed that y ^• pope maye deliver all sou le [...] out of purgatorie / yet if he were therfore [...]rn M. More ell as oft as he leueth anye there / thys vnreson [...] ble reason lyeth crueltye vnto the blame of god which maye vndoutedlye deliuer al soules then ce / and yet he leaveth them there. This blasph [...] mye shulde also touch hys hye matestye for ke­pinge any soule in hell / from whence no man douteth but that he might if he liste deliuer thē all for ever.’

I answere / that the example is nothinge ly Frith ke for god can delyuer no man / neyther from hell nor purgatorie (yf such one were) vntill his iustyce be countrepaysed / as I haue suffy [...]yen­tlye proved agenst Rastell. And yf you obiect [...] hys absolute power / then answere I that he hath an absolute iustice as well as an absolute power / and so can hys absolute power do no­thinge vntill his absolute iustice de satisfyed. And agayne I saye / y ^t god hath no power nor lust to do agenst his scripture ād him silfe / but his power ād lust is to fulfyll y ^t he hath promy­sed vnto y ^e faithfull euerlastinge glorie / ād vn­to y ^• wyked et [...]rnall dānacion. So y ^t god bi his scripture ca [...] deliuer no man out of hell / for thē had he power to make him silfe a lyar ād so we [...]e he no god: neyther can he delyuer any mā out of purgatorye (supposed that there were one) vntyll hys iustyce be pacefyed. But the pope [Page] as he sayeth hym sylfe) hath the full satysfa [...] on in hys awne hand wherbye goddes [...] must be pacefyed: wherfore yt ys onlye the [...] pes faute / wh [...]h hath the satisfaction in his po wer and wyll not geue it till he haue monye / ād not goddes faute which must nedes tarie vntyl satisfactyon be made. And so ys thys reason as stronge as it was before / and the pope proued a cruell tyraunte.

BUt yet to excuse the pope he sayeth / ‘It ys M. More not mete that the pope shulde be so quyc­ke in delyueraunce: for so shulde he geue a gre ate occasyon to men boldlye to falle in to synne and lytle to care or feare how slowlye they ry­se agayne / and that were not mete for hys of­fyce.’

Horsouth thys ys a ientle reason. He maye Frith not be quicke in delyueraunce because he shul­de geue men occasyon of synne. But for one pe­nye he wyll quyte delyuer you and that wyth spead. For yf ye offer a penye vnto Saynt Do­minykes boxe / assone as ye h [...]are the penye rin ge in the boxe / even so sone ys the soule in hea­ven. Call you not that quicke delyueraunce? If you geue not that penye / then maye he not delyuer the soule / for yt shulde be an occasyon of synne. But yf you geve that penye / then is there no such occasyon of synne. Such grea­te vertue hath that one penye in Master Mo res sight / that yt clene wypeth awaye the occa­syon Note wh at vertue ys in a p [...] nye of synne.

Hurthermore / yf thys redempcyon maye be done for monye / yt shalbe stylle an occasyon vnto the rych that they regarde not synne / and yet had they more nede to be brydled then [Page] [...]he poore: for where richesse and abundaunce is there raigneth sinne most of all. How be it I haue shewed sufficientlve before agenst Rastell / that they which feare not to sinne but for fea re of purgatorie / shal never come in it but be dā ned in hell. For we shulde not abstayne from sinne for any feare / but for the pure loue that we haue to god oure most mercyfull father. &c̄.

‘THen cometh Master More to this imagi [...]. More. nacyon / that we shulde saye / how no man­nes prayer or good dead cā helpe a nother. And sayeth he if that were true / then coulde not chri­stes bitter passion profite vs.’

Sir myne opinion of Christes deeth is this [...]th We haue al sinned in Adam / with out oure aw 1 ne consent and worke.

And we are losed from sinne thorow Christ / 1 with out oure workes or deservinges.

Sinne is comen in to the worlde thorow Adam 2 and is punished with deeth

The deeth thorow Christ is tourned in to a me 2 dicyne and clene finisheth sinne.

One mannes sinne which is Adam / hath condē 3 ned manye men.

One mannes grace which is Christe / hath van­queshed 3 sinne and holpen manye.

If one mannes sinne be able to condemne vs 4 with out oure workes.

Then moch more is goddes grace of power to 4 saue vs with out oure workes.

Sinne thorow Adam was planted in vs. 5

Grace thorow Christ is planted in vs. 5

Sinne hath had dominion ouer all men tho­row 6 Adam.

Grace prevayleth ouer vs thorow Christe 6

Deeth thorow sinne is planted in vs. 7

[Page]Liffe thorow grace is planted in vs 7

Deeth thorow sinne hath dominion over vs. [...]

Liffe thorow grace prevayleth ouer vs. 8

Sinne and deeth haue condemned all men. 9

Grace and liffe haue saved all men. 9

Thorow Adam / Adams sinne was counted ou­re 10 awne:

Thorow Christ / Christes rightwysnesse is repu 10 ted vnto vs for oure awne.

Of this maye you perceave that we thinke that Christes deeth profiteth vs / for we take his deeth and resurrection for oure hole rede [...] cyon and saluacyon. Now as concerninge men­nes good deades and prayers / I saye that they profitte oure neyghboures: yee and good wor­kes were ordeyned for that entent that I shul­de profite my neyghboure thorow them: And prayer ought to be made to god for everye sta­te. But if I shulde graunte that such workes and prayers shuld helpe them that are depar­ted / then shulde I speake cleane with out my bo ke / for the worde of god knoweth no such thin­ge. Let them therfore that praye for the deed exa mine them selves well with what faith they do it / for faith leaneth onlye on the worde of god / so that where his worde is not / there can be no good faith: and if their prayer procede not of faith / surelye it can not please god Hebre. xj.

‘NOw suppose (sayeth master More) y ^t pur­gatorye m. More coulde in no wyse be proved by scri pture / and that some wolde yet saye playnlye y ^t there were one / and some wolde saye playnlye naye / let vs now se whether sorte of these tway­ne might take most harme / if their parte were y ^e wronge.’ Furst he that beleved there were pur­ [...] / and that his prayer and good workes [Page] wrought for his frendes soules might relyeve them therin / and because of that vsed moch pra per and almose for them / he coulde not lese y ^• re­warde of his good will although his opiniō we re vntrue and that there were no purgatorye at all. But on the tother side / he that beleveth the­re is none and therfore prayeth for none: if his opinion be false and that there be purgatorye in dead / he les [...]th moch good / and getteth him al so moch harme. For he both feareth moch lesse to sinne / and to lye longe in purgatorie / savinge that his heresye shall kepe him thence / and sende him doune depe in to hell.

I answere / that he shulde take most harme Frith. that beleved there were a purgatorye / if his opi­nion were wronge and coul [...]e not be proved by the scripture (as master More supposed) for he shulde sinne and transgresse agenst the lawe of god which sayeth Deuteronomye. xij. That I commaunde the / y ^t onlye do vnto the lorde / ney­ther adde any thinge nor diminish. And before in the. iiij. chaptre of y ^• same boke / yee shall not adde vnto the worde that I speake vnto you neyther shall ye take any thinge from it. And a­gayne in the. v. chaptre ye shall not decline ney­ther to the right hand (doinge y ^• which is good in youre awne sight) neyther yet vnto y ^• left hā ­de / doinge that which I manifestlie forbide you as though he shulde saye / do that onlye which I cōmaunde the. And where master More sayeth y ^t he can not lese the rewarde of his good will / although his opinion be vntrue. I answere yes for it is but chosen holinesse which Paule con­demneth Colos. ij. which surelye shall rather be imputed vnto him for sinne then for any good [Page] worke. And because (as I sayed before) it can not be done thorow faith / I saye that it is vtter lye reproved of god. And on the tother side he y ^t beleveth it not / sith it can not be proved by scri­pture / can catch no harme at all / although his o­pinion were false / but rather moch good & pray­se both of god and all good men: because he fea­reth to swerve from the worde of god / and had lever not to beleue y ^t thinge whi [...]h is true (be it in case that purgatorye were) ād not sette forth in scripture / for so shall he be sure not to sinne: thē to beleve for an article of the faith that thin ge which is false in dead / for so shulde he surelye sinne and transgresse agenst god and his holye worde. And so is there greate perell to beleue a thinge for an article of the faith which is not o­pened nor spoken of in scripture: But if I bele­ue it not (allthough it were true) yet is there no right nor lawe that can condemne me, Now ma ye you se / that to beleue for an article of y ^e faith that there is a purgatorie / sith it can not be pro ved by scripture / maye condemne a man & ma­ke him lye for ever in the paynes of hell / where as the tother shulde but a litle lenger lye in the paynes of purgatorye (if there were one) ād so shall he be sure to catch most harme that bele­veth there is a purgatory. Savinge (sayeth ma m. [...]. ster More) that his heresye shall kepe him from thence / and sende him doune depe in to hell.

Before he supposed that it coulde not be proved by scripture. And now (stondinge the sa Frith. [...] supposicyon) he calleth it an heresye / and an heresye is a stiffe holden opinion repugnaun­te vnto scripture. If purgatorye can not be [Page] proved by scripture (as he maketh his supposi­tion) then can not the contrarye opinion be ne­pugnaunte to scripture / and thus of his awne supposition he doth evell to call it an heresye. And where he sayth / that his opinion shall sen­de him doune depe in to hell / verelye he steppeth to farre in goddes iudgement to conclude and det [...]ne so cruellye / ād speciallie in the same ar gument where he supposeth that it can not be proved / for if it can not be proved by scripture / wherbye will ye cōdemne him so depe that hol­deth y ^• contrarye? forsouth you are a firce iud­ge / god geue you yies to se. [...]. More.

‘ [...]inallye if ye pitye any man in payne / ne­ver knew ye payne comparable to oures / whose fire passeth as farre in heate all the fyres that ever burned vppon erth / as y ^• hotest of all those passeth a fayned fyre paynted on a walle.’ [...]ith.

[...] emonge all his other poetrye it is re ason that we graunte him this. yee and that ou re fyre is but water in comparison to it. For I ensure you it hath alone melted more golde and siluer foroure spiritualtyes profite out of poo­re mennes purses / then all the golde smythes fy res with in englonde / neyther yet therwith can the raginge heate be aswaged. But it melteth castels / harde stones / londes and tenementes in numerable. For all youre sectes of religion / mō ­kes fryres / chanons and nunnes with other pre estes regulare and seculare / by this fyre / multi­plication and alcuniye haue obtayned their ho le riches and pleasures: evē the swete of englon de. And so must we graunte him that this fire is [...] hote.

Now maye you well perceave what a slen­der [Page] fundacion their note purgatorye hath. For by this confutacion maye you easilye se that it hath no grounde nor auctorite of scripture. Not withstandinge it is the fundacyō of all religiōs and cloysters / yee and of all the goodes y ^t now are in the spiritualtye. Are not they wyttye wor kemen which can buylde so moch on so slender a fundaciō? How be it they haue made it so top pehevye / that it is surelye like to haue a falie. Thus hath Master More a full a [...]swere / both to his scriptures which were to farre wrested out of their places / and also to his awne appa­rent reasons. How be it if his mastershippe be not fullye pacyfyed / let him more groundlye opē his minde / and bringe for his purposse all that he thinketh to make for it and I shall by goddes grace shortlye make him an an­swere and guyet his minde. ☜

NOw will I addresse me to the thirde parte / which shalbe an answere vnto my lorde of Ro­chestre. And al his reasons and argumentes both of scriptures and doctures which are not be fore dissolued in the secōde par te will I clene confute by god­des grace in this thirde boke. How be it the che fest of his scriptures hath Master More perv­sed ād hath in a maner nothinge but that was before writen by my lorde of Rochestre / savinge that he maketh the selye soules to pule to helpe his matter with all. My lorde of Rochestre is the first patrone and defeudar of this phanta­sye. And even as Master More toke his worke out of my lorde [...]f Rochestres / even so plucked Rastell as his boke out of Master Mores

My lorde of Rochestre to confirme his sen­tence / rekeneth vpp the doctoures by heape: ma ster Johan / master Uvyllyam / master Thomas et omnes. But as concerninge the doctoures y ^• they are not so fullye on hys syde as he wolde make them seme / is sone proved. And where shulde I better beginne to confute him then of his awne wordes? for he wri­teth him silfe vppon the. xviij. article on this maner. ☞ ☜

‘ [...]Here is no man now a dayes that douteth Rochestre of purgatorye / sayeth he / and yet emonge the old auncient fathers was there eyther none or els verye seldome mencyon made of it.’ And [Page] also emonge the grecians even vnto this daye is not purgatorye beleved. Let him read y ^t will the commentaryes of the olde grecians / and as I suppose he shall finde eyther no worde spokē of it or els verye fewe. these are my lordes wor­des. I wondre what obliuiousnes is comē vppō Frith him that he so cleaveth vnto the doctures / whō he affirmed before eyther to make no mencyon of it or els verye seldome. Notwithstondinge I will declare you somwhate of the doctures / that you maye the better know their meaninge.

To speake of the doctures and what their minde was in this matter / it were necessarye to declare in what tyme they were and what condi cyon the worlde was in in their dayes. S. Au­styne Ambrose and Nierome were in one tyme / even aboute. iiij. hundred yeare after Christ / ād yet before their tyme were there arisen infinite heretikes by hole sectes / as the Arryans / Domi tians / Eunomians / vigilācians / [...]lagians with infinite other / which had so swerved from the truth and wrested the scripture out of frame / y ^• it was not possible for one man / no nor for one mannes age to restore it agayne vnto the true sense Emonge these there were some / which not onlye fayned a purgatorye / but alsoo dooted so farre / that they affirmed that everye man were he never so vicions shulde be saved thorow y ^t fyre and alleged for them the place of Daule. 1. Lorinthiorum. iij. These holye doctoures per­ceyvinge 1. Lor. 3. those greate erroures / thought it not best by & by to condemnne all thinges indifferēt lye. But to suffre and dissemble with the lesse / that they might wede out the opinions which w [...]re most noysome / as the apostles graunted [Page] vnto the Iewes that the gentils shulde kepe so me of Moses lawe. Actes. xv. y ^t they might the [...]ctes. 15. better come to their purposse to saue the Iues with the gentles. For if they had at the first v [...] [...] sette off the lawe / then wolde the Iues ne uer haue geven anye audience vnto the apostles S. Iusty­ue. And even so. S. Austyne went wyselye to wor­ke. First condempninge by the scripture that er roure which was most no ysome / and wrote on this maner. Albeit some might be purged tho­row fyre / yet not such as y ^• apostle condēpneth when he saith that y ^e persones which so do shall not possesse the kingedome of heavē. And where they woldehaue stucke vnto Paules text. 1. Cor. 3. & affirme that they shulde be saved thorow fi re. S. Austyne āswered / y ^t Paules texte was vn derstande of the spirituall fire which is tempta cyon / affliccyon / tribulacyon &c̄. This wrote he in the. 67. 68. of his enchiridiō to subverte that grosse crroure / that al shulde be saved thorow the fyre of purgatorye. yet in the. 69. he goeth a litle nere them / and sayeth y ^t it maye be douted whether there be any such purgatorye or not / h [...]durst not yet openlye condempne it / because he thought that men coude not at that tyme be­are it. But after in his boke which he entitled de vanitate huius seculi / there doth he fullye she ☞ [...]e his minde in these wordes: Scitote quod cū anima a corpore auellitur / statim aut pro meri­tis bonis in paradiso collocatur aut pro meritis malis in inferni tartara precipitatur. That is / wete ye well that when y ^• soule is departed frō the bodye / eyther is it by and by put in parady­se accordinge to his good desertes: orels it is thrust hedlinge in to hell for his sinnes. Here he [...]lene condempneth purgatorye. For if this be [Page] done by and by assone as the soule is departed from the bodye / then cā there be no purgatorye. And so maketh. S. Austyne hoell with vs. Thin [...]e ye that. S. Austyne dissenteth from his com­panion. S. Hierome / or from his awne Master. S. Ambrose? Naye vere lye. How be it I will allege their awne wordes / and then iudge ☞

SAynte Ambrose dissenteth not from. S. Au S. Ambr­ose / styne / but doth stablish his sentence as ful­ly as is possible. For he writeth in the seconde chaptre of his boke which is called de bono mor tis / on this maner bringinge in the wordes of Dauid. Psal. 39. Ad vena ego sum in terra et pe regrinus sicut omnes patres mei. Et ideo tan­quam peregrinus ad illam sanctorum commu­nem omnium patriam festinabat. Petens pro huius commorationis inquinamento remitti si bi peccata priusquam discederet de vita.

Qui enim hic non acceperit remissionem pec­catorum / illic non erit. Non erit autem quia ad vitam eternam non potuerit peruenire / quia vi ta eterna remissio peccatorum est. Ideoqz dicit re [...]itte mihi vt refrigerer priusquā abeam &c̄. that is / I am a straunger and pilgryme in the erth / as all my fathers haue bene. And therfore as a pilgryme he hasted vnto the comē countre of all saintes / requiringe for the filthinesse that he had receaved in this bodelye mansion / y ^t his sinnes might be forgeven him before he depar­ted from this life. For he that here hath not re­ceyved forgeuenesse of his sinnes / shall not be there. He shall not surelye be there / for he cā not come vnto everlastinge liffe / for everlastinge life [Page] [...]o the forgevenesse of sinnes. And therfore he sa yeth / forgeue me that I maye be cooled before I departe. Here maye you evid [...]ntlye perceaue that Saynt Ambrose knewe [...] of purgatorie nor of any forgeuenesse that shulde be after this lyffe. But playnlye affyrmeth that he that recey­veth not forgevenesse of hys synnes here (that ys in thys lyfe) shall never come in heuen. And for a more vehement affyrmacyon he doubleth hys awne wordes sayenge / he y ^• here hath not receyved forgevenesse of hys synnes / he shall not be there / he shal not surelie be there: hemea neth that he shal neuer come to heven which he re hath not hys remission.

SAynt Hieromes minde maie sone be gathe S. Hierō red by hys exposition of the. ix. chaptre of Ecclesya. 9. ecclesiastes vppon thys texte: the deed haue no parte in this worlde / not in any worke that ys done vnder the sonn [...]. There addeth. S. Hiero­me / that the deed can adde nothynge vnto that whych they haue taken with thē out of this lyf fe. For they can nother do good not sinne / ney­ther can they encrease in vertue or vice. Albe yt (sayth he) some will contrarie this exposicyō af fyrmynge also that we maye encrease ād decrea se after deeth. Here are thre thinges to be noted First y ^t the texte sayeth / that the deed are not .1. partetakers of any worke y ^t is done vnder y ^• son ne. And there maye you se y ^• al suffragies / off [...]rt̄ ges / and dyryges for the deed / are in vay [...]e and profyte them not / for they are partetakers of no thinke vnder y ^e sonne. Secōdarilie you maye se. S. Hieromes awne mide y ^t y ^e deed cā nother .2. do good nor evell neyther encrease in vertue nor vice. And so is purgatorie put out. for if the [...] [Page] can do no good / what shulde they do in purgato rye? And agayne if they can not encrease in ver­tue they be like to lye longe in purgatorye. Par aduenture some man wolde think [...] that they do no good / but onlye that they suffer good. To y ^t I āswere / that he y ^t suffreth good / doth good. For if a mā / shulde suffer hys bodye to be burnt for the fayth of chryst / wolde you not saye that he did a good dead? and yet doth he but suffre. Thyrdlye ye maye note that. S. Hierome was not ignoraunt that certayne (as they which did 3 fayne purgatorye) wolde denye h [...]s exposicion & saye that we might encrease and decrease in ver tue and vice after deeth / yet that notwithston­dinge he helde his sentence condempninge their opini [...]n / which thinge he wolde not haue done (specyalye sith he knew that he shulde haue ad­versaryes for it) excepte he had bene sure y ^t his sentēce was right. Se I praye you how y ^t not onlye scripture / but euē theyr awne doctoures condemp ne this phantasticall put gatorye. And yet my lordes are not a sha med to saye that all make for them. [...]

NEverthelesse I will go further with him. Be it in case that all the doctours did af firme purgatorye / as they do not: what were my lorde the nere his purpose? verelye not one Iote. For the auctoryte of doctoures by my lordes awne cōfession extendeth no further bu [...] is ōlye to be admitted whyles they cōfirme thei [...] wordes bi scripture or els bi someprobable reasō [Page] For my lorde writeth on this maner. ‘Article. 37 the pope hath not so alowed y ^• hole doctrine of Roche­stre S. thomas That mē shulde beleue everye [...]oyn te he wrote were true. Neither hath the church so approued eyther. S. Augustyne or. S. Hie­rom no nor any other auctours doctrine / but that in some places we maye dissent from them for they in many places haue openlye declared them selves to be men / and manye tymes to ha ve erred.’ These are my lordes awne wordes. Now sith the doctours somtime erre / and in cer tayne places are not to be admitted (as he graū teth hym silfe) how shulde we knowe when to approue them and when to denye them? If w [...] shulde hange on the doctoures auctorite / then shulde we as well alowe y ^• vntruth as y ^• truth sith he affirmeth both. Therfore we must haue a iudge to disserne betwene truth and falsehed And who shuld that be: the Pope? Naye [...] lye for he beynge a man (as well the doctoures were) maye erre as they dyd / and so shall we ever be vncertayne. Oure iudge therfore must not be percyall flexible nor ignoraunte (and so are all natural mē excluded) but he must be inal terable / even serchinge the botome and groun­de of all thinge. who must that be? verelye the scripture and worde of god: whych was geuen by hys sonne / confirmed and sealed by the ho­lye gost / and testefyed by myracles and bloude of all martyrs. Thys worde ys the iudge that must examyne the matter / the perfeyte touch­stone that tryeth all thinge and daye that dis [...] seth al iuggelinge mistes. If the doctoures saye anye thynge not dyssonaunte from thys worde then ys yt to be admitted and holden for truth: But yf any of theyr doctrine dyscorde from y [...] [Page] it is to be abhorred ād holden a curste.

To thys full well agreeth. S. Austine which S. Augus [...] styne writeth vnto. S. Hyerome on this wyse: Dear brother / I thinke that you will not haue youre bokes reputed like vnto the workes of the pro­phetes and apostles: for I (the scrypture reser­ved) do read all other mennes workes on that maner / that I do not beleue them because the auctoure so sayth / be he never so well lerned ād holye / excepte that he can certefye me by y ^• scrip ture or cleare reason that he sayeth true. And even so wolde I that other men shulde read [...] my bokes / as I reade theyrs. These are. S. Au­styns wordes. And thus haue I proved both by. Saynt Augustyne ād also by my lordes aw ne wordes / that no man is boūde to beleue the doctours / excepte they can be proued true either by scrypture or good reason not repugnaunte to scrypture. Therfore let vs se what scripture or good reason my lorde bryngeth to approue hys doctours withall For els they can not hel­pe him (as we haue declared both by. S. Augu­styne and my lordes awn [...] confession) although they all made with him / as they do not. First he bringeth in the sinne agēst the holy gost. Mat. xii. And paule. i. Cor. iii. And. 1. Joan. 5. And apo calipsis. 5. whych textes I passe ouer because I haue answered vnto them before in the seconde boke / agenst Master More. Rochestre

‘THe first reason that my lorde hath whych Luce. 16. is not before soluted (for as I sayed y ^• rea sons y ^t are all readye dissolued will I now ouer hippe) ys thys / which he groundeth on diuerse scriptures.’ Of y ^• soules y ^• are departed / some a re all readye dāpned in hell / ād some are all rea­dye [Page] in heaven. And to proue thys true he alle­geth the parable of the rych man. Luce. xv.. I am sure, my lorde is not so ignoraunt as to saye that a parable proueth anye thynge. But the ryght vse of a parable is this / to expoū de an harde texte or pointe that was before tou ched ād coulde not entre in to euerye mānes ca­pacite. [...]yther are all thynges like which are spoken in a similitude / neyther yet all thynges true that are touched in a parable: but we must consyder the thinge wherfore they be spokē / ād applye thē onlye to that they are spoken for / ād let the resydue goo: as wyllyam Tindale hath wel declared vnto you in the parable of wicked [...]. Thys parable is verye harde to be expounded. The cause ys this / no man can well espye by the texte for what purposse it was spo­ken. But this shulde seme to be the cause / that there were manye of the pharisees ād other mul titude whych wolde not beleue the preaching [...] of Christ although he cōfirmed his wor [...]s with the auctorite of Moses and the prophetes / but they were curious and somedeale phantasticall and therfore wolde they not beleue hys wordes excepte some apparycyons had bene made vn to them that they myght haue bene assured by thē that were before deed that hys wordes were true.

Unto such yt ys lyke that he speaketh this parable / playnlye concludynge that they shul­de haue no such appary [...]yons of the deed / and also that yt was not [...]cessarye: but that they had Moses and the prophetes / to whom if they wolde g [...]ue no credence / then shulde [...]hey not [...] leue although one of the deed shuld ryse agay­ [...] and tell yt th [...] [Page] Notwithstondinge let me graunte it hym / that some are all readye in hell and some in heauen (which thinge he shall never be able to proue bi the scripture / yee and whych playnlye destroy­eth the resurrexion and taketh awaye the argu mentes wherwith christ ād paule do proue that we shall ryse) yet I saye let me graunte yt hym to se how he will conclude. what foloweth on y ^t Roche [...]

Neyther it is credible (sayeth he) that all which are not cast in to hell shulde streyght wa­ye goo to heauen / therfore must we put a purga torye where they maye be purged.

I answere / All that lyue are faithfull or vn Frith faythfull. If he be vnfaithfull then is he damp­ned. Ioan. [...]ii. If he beleue thē is he not condēp ned / but is gone from deeth to lyfe. Ioan. 3. 5 The rightwyse man when he dyeth shall rest in pe [...]ce. Sapi. iii. And everye faithfull mā is right wyse before god (as the hole pystle. to the Ro­mans proueth: Ergo then euerye faithfull man shall rest in peace and not be tormented in the paynes of purgatorye. And as touchinge thys poynte where they rest / I dare be bolde to saye that they are in the hande of god / and that god wolde that we shulde be ignoraūte where they be / and not to take vppon vs to determine the matter.

Parad vēture you wolde enquyre of me (sith y ^• parable sayeth y ^• Lazarꝰ rested in Abrahās bo some) what Abrahās bosome is? To y ^• wolde I āswere y ^• Abrahās bosome were nothinge els thē Abrahās fayeth: for all we are called y ^• chyl­drē of Abrahā because of his perfeite faith wh ich we ought to folow. in this faith are manye [...] in a maner infinite degrees notwhitstōdīge if it beno greter thē a [...] sed y ^t is to saie verye [Page] yet shall yt save vs. He that departeth in thys fayth resteth in peace and wayteth for the last daye when god shall geue vnto hys faythfull / that is / to hys electe (for onlye are the electe fay thfull and the faythfull electe) the croune of his glorye whych he hath prepared for them that lo ue hym. Thys croune doth paule saye that he shall receaue yt in that daye. 2. Timo. 4. that is in the daye of iudgement. And in the meane cea son god hath so prouyded for vs / that they shal wayte vntysl the numbre of theyr brothrē why ch daylie suffre and shall suffre for christ / be hoe lye fulfilled / and so shall they not be made per­feyte with out vs. Nebre. xi. If my lorde wyll vnderstonde by Abrahams bosome heauen / I will not be contencyous / let the chrysten iudge whych sentence semeth most true. But thys is once a clere case that of thys he can proue no purgatorye. For the vnfaythfull are all re­ [...] dye dampned / and the fayethfull rest in peace / let him call that what he will / whether to rest in heaven or to rest in theyr sayeth vntyll the last ☞ daye. For I am sure there ys no man so mad as to saye / that to rest in peace shulde sygnyfle to lye in the paynes of purgatorye.

[...]urthermore / thys texte shall rather make sore agenst hym then any thynge with [...]ym. For Lazarus / whyles he was lyvinge was not wythout synne / nor no man els. 1. Ioh annes. 1. so that no wan as longe as he 1. [...]. 1. hath breath in hys bodye can saye that he ys wyth out synne / for then shulde he make. Sa ynt Johan a lyar. And yet was not La­zarus caryed in to purgatorye to be purged of hys synnes whych were remaynynge in [Page] his bodye the houre of his deeth: wherfore I maye conclude that there is no such purgatorye For god is as iust vnto him as vnto vs / and therfore wolde he purge him as well as vs / and agayne he is as mercifull vnto vs as vnto him and will as well forgeus vs as him / with out broylinge on the coles in purgatorye: for his iu­stice and mercye are ever one and not alterable. But oure perfeyte purgacion is the pure blou­de of Christ which wassheth awaye the sinne of the worlde. And albe it we ever haue the rem­nauntes and dregges of sinne / and rebellion of oure membres as longe as we haue liffe / yet are they hoellye finished in deeth / for of such efficac [...] te is christes deeth / that it hath tourned y ^• deeth of his faithfull (which was layed vppon vs as the payne of sinne) in to a medicyne agenst sinne whic [...] fullye cureth it and maketh an ende of it / as it was well figured in gol [...]s that was slay­ne with his awne swerde.

[...] where as my lorde bringeth for hispur Rochestre posse Mat. xii. that men shall geue accoūp Mat. 12. tos of everye idle worde / I haue soluted that be Frith fore agenst master More / that I thinke he shall saye him silfe that he is answered. For if men shall geue a rekeninge for them on the daye of dome (as the texte sayeth) that shulde rather ar­gue that there were no purgatorye wherin tho se sinnes shulde be purged / for if they had bene purged before of them / then shulde they not ge­ue an accoumptes for thē. And if it proved any thinge at all / it shulde proue that there were a purgatorye after domesdaye which no mā wa [...] ever so folish as to graunte.

But the true vnderstondinge of this texte is this. There are two kindes of men one fayth [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] full / the other vnfaithfull. The faithfull thorow Faithfull their faith in christes bloude are all readye ful­lye purged in their harte / and their rebellious m [...]res thorow deeth are hoellye subdued. The se men shall geue no rekeninge neyther of idle worde nor evell dede. For all their sinnes are co vered of Christ / and his bloude shall geue the hoell accoumptes for them. The vnfaithfull vn­to Unfaith­full their vtter confusion shall haue the boke of their conscience opened ād there shall be preseu ted before them al their evell dendes wordes ād thoughtes. And these are they (that christ spea­keth off) which shal geue this greate accoumpt [...] Note also that in the texte they are called men / which worde in scripture is ever Men for the most parte takē in y ^• worst sense / and signifyeth wyked men / fleshlye men / and men that folowe theyr awne lu stes ād ap­petites ☜

‘ [...]hen confirmeth he purgatorye out of th [...] Rochestre [...]. Psalme which sayeth / we haue gon [...] thorow fire ad water and thou hast brought [...] Psal. 66. in to colenesse I am sure you haue not forgote [...] Frith that Master More allegeth the prophete zach [...] zachari. 9. rye in the. ix. and affirmeth that there is no wa [...] ter in purgatorye.’ It were harde to make the [...] two agre / for when men grounde them on a ly [...] then for the most parte theyr tales and proba [...] ons are contrarye and will not well [...]onde [...] gither. Neverthelesse in one poynte they ag [...] full well / that is / both of them saye vntrulye: [...] neither nother texte serveth anie whitte for p [...] [Page] [...]atorye. And as concerninge the place of zacha­rye: it is suffeciētlye declared whath it meaneth. And now will I also declare you the vnder [...] dinge of this texte / and first that it can not ser­ve for purgatorye I vesech you that haue the psalter once to rea [...] the psalme and I thinke you shal wondre at their dotinge dreames and ignoraunce which allege this texte for purgato­rye. The text [...] of the psalme is this / thou hast brought vs in to a strayght and laded oure bac­kes with trouble or [...]. Thou hast sette men vppon oure heedes / we hau [...] gone thorow fyre and water and thou hast ledde vs out agay ne in to a place of refreshinge. The textes befo re and after in the same psalme will not suff [...] that this place shulde be vnderstonde of purga torye. For the texte immediatlye before sayeth / thou hast sette men vppon oure heedes: But y ^• thefest defendars of purgatorye (and even Ma stre More him silfe) saye that they are not men / but devels which torment the soules in purga­torye / notwithstandinge More ād my lorde of Rochestre Rochest­re [...]. (good man) affirmeth that they are aungels which tourment the soules there: but never man dooted so far [...]re as to saye that men tour­ment the soules in purgatorye / wherfore I maye conclude that his texte is not ment of purgatorye / but that the prophete ment that men ranne over the children off Israhell and subdued them / and wrapped them in extreme troubles which in the scripture are signified by fire & water. Besydes y ^t y ^• textes folowinge wil not admitte y ^t this shulde be vnder [...]de of pur­gatorye, for it foloweth immediatlye / I wil ētre in to thy housse with burntofferinges / I shal of fre ūtoy ^• fatte sacrifices with y ^• reke of wethers [Page] I shall burne to the oxen and gotes. Now is there no man so madde as to thinke that y ^• sou­les of purgatorye shulde offre vnto god any such sacrifices. So that the texte is playnlye vn derstonde of the childrē of Israel which thorow the lorde were delivered from their affliccions and enemyes and then offered their loyall sacri­fices of prayse and thankes to y ^• lorde their shil de and proteccion.

‘NOw flieth my lorde vnto the church and sa Rochestre yeth / that because the church hath affir­med it we must nedes beleue it / for the church cā not erre.’ As thouchinge this poynte I will re­ferre Frith you vnto a worke that wyllyam Tinda [...] hath writen agenst. M. More / wherin ye shall well perceyve what the church of Christ is / and that his church never determed any such thin­ge. But that it is the sinagoge of Satan y ^t ma­keth articles of y ^• faith and bindeth mennes cō ­sciences further then the scripture wille.

‘THen wexeth his lordeshippe somwhat ha­te Rochestre agēst Marten Luther / Because he wol­de y ^• no man shulde be comp [...]led to beleue pur­gatorye. For my lorde sayeth that it is profita­ble and well done to compell men to beleue such thinges whether they will or wil not.’ And to sta blish his opinion he plucketh out a worde of y ^• parable of luke. xiiij. ‘that a certen man made a Lucc. 14 greate souper / and sayed vnto his servauntes / goo forth quyclye in [...] the wayes and compell [...]em to entre in.’

[...]erelye there Christ ment no nother thin­ge Frith. / but that his apostles shulde goo forth in to all the worlde and preach his worde vnto all na cyons / openinge vnto them the miserable state and cond [...]n that they be in / and agayne what [Page] mercye god hath shewed thē in his sonne christ. This wolde Christ that his apostles shulde ex­pounde and laye out so evidentlye by reasons / scriptures and miracles vnto the gentils / y ^t they shuld even by their manifest persuasions be cō ­pelled to graunte vnto them that he was christ / and to take vppon thē the faith that is in christ One this maner did Christ compell y ^• saducees to graunte the resurreccion. Matthei. xxij. And by these meanes compelled he the Pharis [...]s to graunte in their consciences that he did his my­racles with the power of god / and yet astir war­de of verye hate knowinge in their hartes the contrarye / they sayed that he did them bi the po wer of the dev [...]ll. Matthei. xij. But to saye that Christ wolde haue his disciples to compell men with presonmēt / feters / [...] ginge / swerde & fy re is verye false & farre from the [...]enesse of a christen spirite / although my lorde approue it ne ver so moch. For Christ did forbid his disciples such tyrannye / [...] & rebuked them because they wolde haue desyred that fyre shulde descende from heaven to consume the Samaritanes wh­ych wolde not receyue Christ Luke. ix. But he cō maunded them that if men wolde not receyve their doctrine / they shulde departe from thence and sprincle of the dust of their fet [...] to be a testi­monye agenst the vnfaithfull that they had be­ne there and preached vnto them the worde of Luc [...]. 9. liffe: But with violence will god haue no man compelled vnto his lawe. Paule also testifyeth. ij. Corin. 1. that he had not rule over the Corin­thians as touchinge their faith. By oure fayth we stande in the lorde / and by o [...]re infidelite we falle from him. As no man can serch the herte but onlye god / so can no man iudge or ordre ou [Page] [...] faith but onlye god thorow his holye sprete [...]

[...] / faith is a gifte of god / which he destributeth at his awne pleasure. 1. Cor. [...]ij. If he geue it not this daye / he maye geue it to 1. Cor. 12 morow. And if thou perceyve by any exterior worke that they neyboure haue it not / enstructe him with goddes worde and praye god to geue him grace to beleue: and that is rather a poynte of a christen man then to cōpell a man by deeth or exterior violence.

Hynallye / what doeth thy compulsion and violence? Uerelye nothinge but make a starcke hypocrite. For no man can compell the harte to beleue a thynge / excepte it se evidence and suffi­cient profe. I haue harde tell of a boye which was present at his fathers burninge for his bele ue / and assone as the officers had espyed y ^e boye they sayed to ech other / Let vs take him and ex­amine him also / parad vēture we shall finde him as greate an heretike as his father. Uvhen th [...] boye sawe that his father was deed / and that y ^• catchpolles begāne to snatch at him. he was so­re dismayed and thought that he shulde dye to. And whē one of them apposed him askinge him how he beleved / he answered: Master / I bele­ue even as it pleaseth you. Even so by tourmen tes and craftye handlinge a man maye be com­pel [...]ed to saye that he beleveth the thinge which he neyther thinketh nor yet can beleue. For a mannes faith is not in his awne power. But how doth god accepte this thinge / to saye that I beleue that which in dede I beleue not? Uere lye he vtterlye cōdēpneth it whether the opiniō be true or false. For if the opinion be true (as by example that the faith in Christes bloude iu­stefyeth me before god) and I confesse it befo­re [Page] all the bysshopes in engloude with my mouth and beleue it not with myne harte / then am I nothinge the better (for I shulde haue no parte of Christes bloude) but I am moch the worse. For first god condempneth me / which iudgeth me after myne harte / and also myne awne harte condēpneth me because I haue openlye graun tid that myne harte deuyeth.

And contrarie wyse / if I shulde beleue this fullye in inyne harte / ad yet for feare of persecu tion shulde denye it when I were examined opē lye of my faith / then shall I be condemned of god (excepte I repent) and also mine awne har te shalbe a witnesse to condemne me. And so is it ver [...]e noysome and vngodlye to be compelled vnto any thinge / for god ever sercheth the harte which can not be com­pelled. ☜

BUt my lorde obiecteth writinge vppon the Eochestre xvii [...]. article sayinge: ‘If a man take awaye purgatorye / for what entent shall we nede any Pardons pardons? As longe (sayeth he) as no man regar ded purgatorye / there was no man that sought any pardon / for all the estimacyon of pardons hangeth therof / so that we shall haue no nede of them / if there be no purgatory.’

Uerelye I care not though I graunte him Frith. that to. And I thinke y ^• Monye was the mo­ther of them both. For out of y ^• scripture shall he be able to proue neyther nother.

But māmon is a greate god / even of power ynough to invēt such knackes / yee and to make [Page] them articles of the faith / & to [...]urne those that can not beleve thē. And it was a preatye practi­se to make such poyntes articles of the faith / for after y ^t oure holye fathers had geven vppe prea chinge & wolde take no more paynes / neyther ser ve their brothren any more / then sette they vppe such articles of the faith as shulde bringe in mo nye to vppholde their astate with all. And he y ^t wolde not beleue them / rydde him out of y ^• wa­ye for feare of disclosinge their iugglinge / for h [...] that douteth of pardons & purgatorye / he plu [...] keth oure holy father by the beerde.

‘NOtwithstoudinge my lorde cōfirmeth both [...] pardons & purgatorye / by the texte y ^• christ spake vnto Peter Mat. xvj. To the will I ge ue the hayes of the kingdō of heaven / & what so [...] thou bindest v [...]on the erth it shalbe bou [...] de ī h [...]adē / & what so ever thou loosest on y ^• erthit shalbe loosed [...] heaven. But these wordes (saieth my lorde) had bene spoken in vayne if h [...] coulde not geue pardons and loose men out of purgato [...]ye. &c.’

[...]s touchinge the kayes / albe it they hau [...] [...]. often tymes bene declared & in a maner in eve­rye treatise y ^t hath bene put forth in the english tongue yet will I sum what shew my minde it [...] them. There is but one kaye of heaven which Christ calleth the kaye of knowiege Luc. xj. And this kaye is the worde of god. Christ rebuked y ^• [...] [...]u. [...] [...] for takinge awaye this kaye from the people / for they with their tradicyons / & fal­se exposicyons had fullye excluded the kaye of knowlege which is the worde of god & had clene s [...]utte v [...] y ^• scripture as oures haue done now adayes. It is also called y ^e kaye of david which shutteth & no man openath / ope [...]eth ād no man [Page] [...]hutteth Apo. iij. And because of these two effec­tes Apo. 3. which it worketh (for it both shutteth & ope neth) hath it the dominaciō of kayes / & yet (as I sayed) in dede it is but one / which is the worde of god. This kaye or kayes (now calle it as you will sith yow knowe what it meaneth) Christ de lyvered vnto Peter & vnto his other apostles a like / which you shall easelye perceave if you marke where & when they were geven. For mat Mat. 16. xvj. they were onlye promised & not yet geven / for Christ sayed I will geue the the kayes / & not I geue the. But after he was risen from deeth then performed he his promisse & gaue y ^e kayes to all indifferentlye as thou maistse Iohan. xx. Iohan. 20 ād luke in the. xxiiij. expoundeth it / y ^t he opened Luc. 24. their wittes to vnderstonde the scripture y ^t re­pentaunce & forgeuenesse might be preached. &c̄. Therfore it is the worde y ^t bindeth and looseth thorow the preachinge of it. For when thou tel­lest them their vices & iniquityes cōdemnige thē by the lawe / then bindest thou them by y ^e worde of god / & when thou preachest mercye in Christ vnto all y ^t repent / then dost thou loose them by the worde of god. Therfore he y ^• preacheth not the worde of god / can neyther binde nor loose / ☜ no / though he call him silfe pope. And contrarye wyse / he y ^t preacheth his worde he bindeth & loo seth even as well as Peter & Paule / although he be called but Sir Ihon of the countrye. And consequentlye / to saye that he pope can deliver any soule out of purgatorye (if there were one) is but a vayne lye / excepte he can proue that he goeth doune vnto them & preach v [...]to them the worde of god (which is the salt that must ceason them & kaye y ^• must lette them out) for other lo­singe is tho [...] noue. And likwyse / to saye y ^• the [Page] [...] can geue any pardon to redeme sinnes / ex­cepte he preach me that Christes bloude hath perdoned me / is even like vanite.

[...] thinketh also that he wadeth to depe to descende to purgatorye by this texte. For the [...]at. 16. texte sayeth / that whate so ever he bindeth on erth shalbe bounde in heaven and what so ever he loseth on erth. &c̄. But now they graunte thē selves that purgatorye is not on erth / but the thirde place in hell: And therfore it passeth his bondes to stretch his hand to pur­gatorye: and so this texte can not serve him. ☜

‘NOt withstondinge my lorde is not content Rochestre to geue him this power onlye / but he hath so farre waded in the popes power / that he hath graunted him full auctorite to delyver all men from hell (if they be notdampned all readye) for (sayeth he) who so ever haue committed a capi­tale cryme hath ther [...] deserved dampnacyon / and yet maye the pope delyver him both from the cryme and also from the payne due vnto it / [...]ud he affer [...]eth that. iij. tymes in the. xxj. arti­cle for feare of forgettinge.’

Uppon this poynte will I a litle reason with [...] my lorde / and so will I make an ende. If the po­pe maye delyver any man from the cryme that [...] hath committed and also from the payne due vnto it / as you affirme / then maye he by the sa­me auctorite delyver. xx. an hundred / a thousan [...] / yee and all the worlde: for I am sure you can shew me no reason why he maye delyver some and not all. If he can do it / then let him veliver [...]erye man that is in the poynte of deeth both [Page] from the cryme and from the payne / and so shall never man more neyther entre in to hell nor yet in to purgatorye: which were the best dede and most charitablest that ever he did / yee and this ought he to do (if he coulde) although it shulde [...]ost him his awne life and soule therto (as Mo ses and Paule geue him ensample) but yet the­re Exodi. 32. is no ieoperdye of neyther nother. Now if he Rom. 9 cā do it (as you saye) & will not / then is he the most wretched and cruell tyraunte that ever ly­ved / even the verye sonne of perditio and wort­hye to be dampned in an hundred thousand hel­les. For if he haue receaved such power of god that he maye save all men and yet will not / but suffre so manye to be dampned / I reporte me vn to youre selves what he is worthye to haue?

Now if any man wolde solute this reason ād saye that he maye do it / but that it is not mete for him to do it / because y ^t by their paynes god­des iustyce maye be satisfyed: I saye that this their evasion is nothinge worth / neyther yet [...] I imagyne any waye wherbye they maye haue anye apparence to escape. For my lorde sayeth him silfe that the pope must pacefye goddes iu­stice for everye soule that he delyvereth frō pur gatorye: and therfore hath he imagyned that the pope hath in his hande the merites of Christes passion which he maye applye at his pleasure where he will. And also he sayeth that the meri­tes of Christes passion are sufficient to redeme all the sinnes in the worlde. Now sith these me­rites on their parte are sufficient to sati [...]ye the [...]ustice of god and [...] the hoell worlde / and also that the pope hath them in his hande to distribute at his pleasure: then lacketh the­re ☜ no more but even the popes distribucyon [Page] [...] the saluaciō of the hoell worlde. For he [...] goddes wrath and satisfye his iustice (sayeth my lorde) by [...]lyinge these merites to them that [...]acke good workes. And so if y ^t pope will / goddes iustice maye be fullye satisfye [...] and the hoell worlde saved. Now if he maye so ius [...] lye and [...] save the hoell worlde (cherite al so movinge him vnto it) and yet will not apply these merites so frutefullye / then is the faute [...] lye his / and he the sonne of perdicyon and [...] more payne then can be imagined. And [...] not the [...] improved but [...]och more [...] / and as I thinke inevitable.

Beholde I praye you whother my lorde [...] Rochestre hath brought oure holye father [...] a vauncynge his power in [...] / even in to y ^• [...] of hell [...]hich ( [...] my lorde saye [...] it is impossible for him to avoyde. But [...] vnto him even as it doth [...] such pryde raigneth: for wha [...] they are [...] / then falle they doune hedlinge vnto [...] vtter confusion and ruine.

If anye [...] feale him [...] greaved and not yet fullye satisfyed in this [...] lette him wryte his minde / and by goddes grace I shall make him answere / & that with spede. ☜

Praye Christen reader y ^t the worde of god ma­ [...] encrease. ☜

Amen.