Try all things, and choose that which is good. 1 Thes. 5 and the Lorde giue vs a true vnderstanding in all thinges.

SIR, The other Day you demaunded of me, whether I held the Aucthoritie of the Bushops of the Church of England, lawfull or no. I being wholely imploid at y^e time, both in Body and Mind about my calling, gaue you this briefe an­swere, that I did, if they vsed it lawfully and aledged the Epistles of Timothy, & Titus, for proofe: You thinking I spake very absurdly, tolde me (as many others haue done before you) that I vnderstood nothing, and that being once otherwise minded (as I was) all men would laugh at me for my grose iudgment: [Page] whereby that you & others, thinke that I haue altred my minde, not on any sound ground or of Conscience: But vpon sinister or worldly respect. But to satisfie you to the contrary: I assure you, that if I had tooke as much time so Deliberat, and examine them before I entred into them as I did, and beeing entred, before I left them (whatsoeuer any conceiue) I had neuer appro­ued eyther of the Presbite [...]ial Discipline, or the Seperation (which of necessitie must follow. Yf the ground of that Discipline were true) from the Church of England: For after I was brought in­to some doubt, I tooke two yeares time to examin, both mine own Conscience, and the proofes on both sides. In which two yeares space, I read all that euer I could get written in English, touch­ing thiefe Controuersies on thiese three sides, as these for the Discipline, A Bookes in defence of the preten­ded discipline which conteyne in them, the groundes of Brow­nisme. M. Cartwrightes workes. Penry, his workes. Vdals Demonstra­tion A Treatise of the Church, by Phillip Mornay. The Complaint of the Commonaltie, the expectation to England, Fenners Defence, of godly Ministers: The Ecclesiasticall discipline, M. Trauers, his learned discourse, The Counterpoyson, The Sermon on the 12. to the Romans, the dialogue of white Diuils, M. Trauers his practise of Prelates, the abstract, A Dialogue of the strife of our Church, a little booke of M. Dauisons, A Scots Disciplinarian, the Iudgement of the most Reuerend, written by M. Daneus, [as they say) The Display of D. Soame in his colours. M. Vdals Dia­logue. M. Knoxe his Epistles to England, Calvins Institutions, which directly confirmes the Bushops Offices, although it be of­ten alledged against them. The humble motion to the Councell, Martins libels, & the two Admonitions to the Parliament. For the Brownists or Donatists thiese M. Browne, his booke against Lo­gick & Rethorick, and of the estate of the Christians and Heathens, His Inuectiue against parish Prea­chers, B Bookes in defence of Brownisme, grounded vpon the former. and hired Lecturers, and a­gainst Preaching at Paules Crosse, [Page] and his answere to M. Cartwrights Letter to M. Robert Harryson, his consort: His aunswere in writing, to Steephen Bridewell. His first booke against Brownists, for his 2 about Communicating, was neuer answered. And Brownes Booke of the gathering and ioyning together of certaine persons in Norfolke, M. Harrisons booke on the 122 psalme, M. Barrow his discouery of the false Church: Their refutation of M. Gifford (as they call it) their description of the visible church: written by M. Barrow, M. Iohn­son Penry, and others, and since confuted by Doctor Allison their bookes against reade prayers, and their 9. reasons against the Church of England, with other thinges in writing to that ef­fect: And the Articles of their new Faith printed, 1596. And for defence of the Church of Englands gouernment, these the Confu­tation of the two Admonitions to the Parliament by that reue­rend father, Doctor Whitegift, then Archbishop of Canterbury, fiue Bookes of that reuerend man M. Hooker (who is at rest with God) called the Ecclesiasticall pol­licie, C Bookes in defence of the Church of Englandes gouernment, by Bi­shops, fully confuting all the for­mer by authoritie of Scripture and practise of all the auncient Churches of God. the aunswere to the Ab­stract, the aunswere to the Peti­tion made to her Highnesse by D Sutcliffe, and his Booke called the False Semblanc [...] of Coun­terfait discipline detected, The perpetuall Gouernment of Christes church: Written by that most famous learned father D. Bilson B: of Winchester, and the Conspiracie for reformation, Scotizing and English Scotizing for Discipline, and the Suruay of the ho­ly Discipline. All which thrée were written (as I beare) by M:D: Bankroft, now Lord B: of London the Remonstrance, M. Rogers his sermon on the 12. to the Romanes against M. Chad­dertons vpon the same text. D: Sarauia vpon the degrées of the Ministers of the worde, our booke of Martyrs, the first Colume whereof, I reade foure times ouer, in one winter distinctly: and haue collected the names of more then 100 Archbishops and Bishops out of it: Which all suffred Martyrdome, within 300. yeeres after Christ, beside many other which were Priestes and [Page] Deacons. (Sée how that will agrée with that equalitie in the ministerie which some haue taught) and Eusebius his Ecclesias­ticall Historie, contayning ten bookes Eusebius was Bishop of Cesarea in Palestine and wrote the story of the Primitiue church, for thrée hundred yéeres from Christes death, till Constantines, the first Christian Emperour. Socrates his Ecclesiasticall Histo­rie in 7. bookes, who began where Eusebius left, and sheweth the estate of the Church for 140. yéeres, vntill the raigne of Theodosius the younger. And out of them doth M. Foxe take all or the most part of his proofes, for the estate of the Primitiue church. Euagrius his sixe bookes, who began the Historie where Socrates left: and continued the Story of the Church for 155. yéeres, ending his last booke in the raigne of Mauricius Empe­rour of Rome, the yéere of our Lord 599. And albeit in rea­ding all those things together with the scriptures, D And all this while not any Christian Church in the world but it had a Bi­shop to gouerne both the people and the Priests (as M Caluin saith) or else these auncient workes are lyes and fables: and so is M. Foxe his booke which is grounded vpon them, which thing whosoeuer should affirme, wold scarcely deserue the name of a Chri­stian. I am farre of from that knowledge wherevnto I might haue attayned, if God had indued me with that quick sight and helpe of memory, which your selfe and many others doe possesse and haue yet (praised be his holy name that gaue it) I haue attayned to so much as hath giuen me a comforta­ble peace of conscience, to returne and rest in the Church of God againe. Now howsoeuer you may iudge that my vnder­standing is partly corrupted: yet that you may know that I haue taken some paines to be established in the truth (as I and the whole Church of God in all ages doe take it. I will set you downe some of that, which I can say for the power and autho­ritie of Bishops aboue Elders or Ministers, out of the Epistles to Timothy and Titus, (which the other day I could not intend to discourse vpon and that is this.

That the holy Ghost not onely appointed Paul to make them Bishops, but gaue them authority by Paules mouth first to or­daine: [Page] Secondly to examine such as be faulty, thirdly to reproue and discharge these thinges he giueth in these two churches par­ticularly to Timothy and Titus and their Successors, and to all other Bishops of Christes Church foreuer.

This is in the text very plaine to me, howsoeuer we haue for a time wholly relyed vpon one sort of men, and taken all for cur­rant which hath beene taught vs, not duely examining the rea­sons which are by the other side, brought to ref [...]ll these courses.

Nay, their persons are made so odious to the poore ignorant multitude, fauouring the Discipline (by certaine writers and preachers,) that they can scarcely speake of them with patience, much lesse reade and examine their graue and learned reasons. But to the point that Timothy had power to ordaine, Presbiters or Ministers of the word, this text is plaine in these wordes. 1 Tim: 5.22. Lay handes sodenly vpon man, &c. And Titus had the same power, 1 Tit. For this cause left I thee in Creete, that thou shouldest ordaine elders in euery Cittie as I appointed thee. That he gaue them power to receiue accusations and examine witnesses against Ministers, the text is plaine: 1 Tim: 5.19. Against an Elder receiue no accusation, but vnder two or three wit­nesses. And in the 20 verse he saith: Those that sinne rebuke them openly that the rest may feare. And that they had power to sus­pend, or stop the mouthes of contentious Elders: yea and to de­priue, or depose them from the Ministerie, is as cleare as in Tit: Their mouthes must be stopped, which teach thinges they ought not for filthy lucre sake: And 1. Tim: 1. Chap. 3. ver: I prayed thee to abide at Ephesus and so doe, that thou maist commaund some, that they teach no other doctrine. This is all the power that the Church of God in England giues her Bishops and these are Bishops, as appeareth by the authoritie giuen them aboue all other Ministers in Creet, and Ephesus. The case therefore is cleare, that the power of Bishops ouer their Ministers within their gouerment, is in these points approued by the expres word of God. The obiection that Timothy and Titus, were Euange­lists, and no Bishops is by many godly learned men in Eng­land [Page] conf [...]ted, the obiection is without sense. For no power giuen properly to Euangelists was to continue for euer in the church but this power giuen to Timothy and Titus, must by Gods ex­presse commandement continue for euer, the text is plaine, 1 Tim. 6.13.14. in these wordes: I charge thee in the sight of God who quickeneth all thinges, or that thou keepe this commande­ment without spot, and vn-rebukeable vntill the appearing of our Lord Iesus Christ: Twas impossible for Timothy to doe this: these precepts therefore are giuen by the holy Ghost, to all that shall come into that holy calling of Bb. vntill the end of the world, euen as they were vnto Timothy, and Titus.

E See Perpetuall gouernment Chap. 12.13.14.This is the Iudgement of the whole Church of Christ, for the space of 1500. yeeres, and more, of the most and best writers, yea euen Cal­uin, and Beza not excepted. These thinges (Sir) would ra­ther be seriously considered, then carelessely reiected. And sure­ly men may doe well to make more account of the Fathers and Martyrs of the Primitiue church, and of the holy Histories, then in their ignorance to laugh at their simplenes, least if we doe condemne all men beside these which we doe affect, F See Suruay of holy discipline page 131. 132. 133. &c. to be voide of truth, we be condemned our selues, not onely of our consciences, but of posteritie, as beeing voide of sobrietie. For proofe that in all ages since the Apostles times, the gouern­ment by Bishops hath beene in the Church, may it please you to reade with a purpose to giue vpright iudgement, the booke of the Perpetuall Gouernment of Christes Church, and a booke cal [...] the False Semblance of counterfait discipline detected, and the Suruey of the pretended holy discipline, &c. Therein you shall sée such reasons against the desired discipline, and for the gouern­ment of the Church of England, as may satisfie any indifferent man, except we will reiect not onely the scriptures before alled­ged, but the testimonie of all the counsels, churches, and fathers that are gone before vs, and also our booke of Martyrs, as méere prophane fables to passe the time withall: Which vngodly con­ceit, [Page] I hope is far from you, and euery sober minded Christian. In the booke of the perpetuall gouernment of Christs Church, you shall see all the chiefe reasons, of those that doe vrge an o­ther discipline set downe in different letter by themselues, and the same learnedly answered. There you shall see all the maine points of that discipline layd flat vnder foot: and in the tenth chapter, Pages 228. 229. 230. you shall see it prooued, that there were neuer any called elders in the new testament, except the ciuill Gouernors, but such as were Ministers of the word and Sacraments. And in the 13. Chapter, Pages 261 262. 263. you shall see in a Table a Catalogue of the names of those Bishops which succeeded one another in the foure principall Citties of the worlde, G Read Eusebius lib. 7. Chap. 31. Page 144. which had receiued the faith, Ierusalem, Alexandria, Anti­och and Rome vntill the councell of Nice, three hundred and odde yeeres after Christ, as also the names of the Bishops of the seuen Churches of Asia, H Read Socrates lib. 1. Chap. 5. Page 222. 223. and the names of their Elders, or Priests who came with them to the councell of Nice, and were vnder their gouernment, as they who subscribed to the Councell together with the Bishops, page 263. which cleane euerthroweth their conceit of the e­qualitie of Pastors, and so doth the booke of Martyres also in the description of the first ten persecutions: where it is often recorded that the Bishops of diuers Citties were martyred with such and such of their Priests and Deacons with them, long before poperie was hatched. I See Caluins Institutions lib. 4. cap. 4. sect. 2. Master Caluine when he wrote not his affections, but his lear­ned iudgemēt agreeing fully with those things, as doth appeare in many places of his Institutions, and more plaine it is in his answere to Cardinall Sadolet, where he writeth thus: That if the Bishop of Geneua will forsake his popish religion, and embrace the truth, he is subiect to the greatest Anathema, or curse, or casting to Sathan that may bee, which shall refuse to submit himselfe vnto the Hierarchy or Priestly gouern­ment [Page] of that Bishop. Reade for this the Booke called the Suruay of the pretended holy Discipline: and there you shall finde Master Caluine, K See Suruay of Discipline pag. 112. [...]13. 114. 115. Me­lanchton, M. Bucer, and others write thus. Being appointed by the Emperor to set down their iudgements. Now (say they) by the perpetuall obseruation of all Churches euen from the Apostles times, L Read Eusebius, 1. lib. cap. 1. and lib. 7. chap. 19. There shall you see Iames made Bishop of Ierusalem by the A­postles and yet was hee neuer called Beelzebub, the chiefe of the deuils as some religious Reformers haue in in print called one of the most reue­rend fathers of the Church in this age D. Whitgift, Archb. wee doe see that it seemed good to the holy Ghost, that amongst Priests there should be one that should haue the charge and care of diuers Churches, & the whole Ministerie committed vnto him. And, by reason of that charge he was aboue the rest, and therefore the name of Bi­shop, was attributed peculiarly vnto those chiefe Rulers of Churches. And then (they say) that in the Apostles times, one of the Priests or pastors was chosen, and ordained to bee the captaine or Prelate ouer the rest who went before the rest and had the care of soules, and the administration of the Episcopall office, specially in the highest degree, and for proofe they cite Act. 15. chap. and then conclude they after this manner. The like ordination (say they) hath been obserued perpetually in o­ther Churches; likewise as farre as we may learne out of Ec­clesiasticall Histories, and the most ancient fathers, as Tertul­lian, Cyprian, Ireneus, Eusebius, and others.

Thus farre Master Caluin and the rest. Nowe what shall wee thinke of him, that to winne our heartes to fauour his fancie, hath tolde vs in print that Caluine would haue trembled, & shaken at the name, and office of a Bishop, which is most false. In the 113. page of the Suruey of Disci­pline you shall see his name. And as for M. Beza (howso­euer sometimes he was otherwise minded) yet beeing drawen by some which opposed thēselues against the discipline of Ge­neua, to be thinke himselfe better, he is now wholy with vs, as may appeare by two Letters of his written to the Lorde of [Page] Canterbury his Grace that now is, which Letters hee endor­seth thus. To the most reuerend man, and Father in Christ the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury, Counsellor to the Queenes Maiestie, and Primate of all England, &c. In which Letter hee confesseth the gouernment of the Church of England, by Bishops and Archbishops to bee of God, and that it hath continued in the Church euer since Saint Marks time, who was (saith he) the first Bishop of Alexandria; and so saith Caluine and all the olde Fathers. And in his booke a­gainst D. Saravia hee approueth of the gouernment of the Church of England, at large by Bishops and Archbishops to be of God, and prayeth that that singular blessing of God may be perpetuall vnto that Church of England. Read for this Suruay of Discipline, pages 131. 132. 133. Now beloued in Christ, I beseech you consider, if a man altering his minde by force of these reasons, and many mo such like, (as I and diuers others haue done) may be said to doe it without reason, know­ledge, or vnderstāding, yea or no? And if after due consideration of these things, you shall still thinke I erre, yet I beseech you & al other friends to think as charitably of me, your poore friend, as of y^e whole Church of Christ, in al ages whose iudgement in these things I follow: M See Booke of Martyrs last edition Columne 1. page. 15. for surely mine error can be no worse then theirs, but I hope your wise­dome will make better vse of these things, which God grant, Amē. And wheras, I say, that if the grounds of the discipline were true it doth approue of a separation from the Church of England: thus I proue it, and I beseech you to marke the reasons, for they will make you and other brethren, either to bee of my minde concerning the gouernment of our Church, or to ioyne with those that are separated from it, if you will keepe a good conscience. For you know there can be no halting (betweene two opinions) approued of God. Wee must make the tree good, N See 1. Kings 18.21. Matt. 7.18. Iames 2. and his fruite good: or the tree naught, and his fruite naught. One Fountaine cannot send foorth bitter and sweet waters.

Now thus M. Cartwright and others haue written that [Page] the Discipline which he pro­poundeth is a part of the Gospell,O. Marke how the Writers for new Discipline giues Brownists their holds in these their books following. For which they shall neuer answere GOD nor their Prince, but by re­pentance, which God grant may bee as faithfull and as effectual as was that of Origene, whereof we read in Euse­bius lib. 7. pages 122. 123. And then no doubt they will labour to per­swade all men to thinke well of the present gouernment contrary to their former bookes and writing wherein they haue disgraced it. which if it were true, then are not they the Church of God which refuse the same, and so this separati­on from the Church of Eng­land is by them iustified. A­gaine, he writes more plain­ly thus: That Discipline is an vnseparable marke of the true Church, which if any man beleeue, he must needs forsake the Church of England, for it hath not that marke of his: nay (you know) it doth reiect it as a meere counterfait. Now the Church can no more be with­out her proper markes, then fire without heate or faith with­out good workes, as Master Doctor Sutcliffe hath well pro­ued in the three last Chapters of the False semblant of coun­terfait discipline detected, (as he calles his booke) where he hath likewise prooued by the olde and new testament, and the practise of all the olde and new Churches (some few of late ex­cepted) and by the iugement of old and new writers, That it is no marke of the Church, P Aegesippus and Clemens who were the Apostles successors approoues of a contrary order, see Eusebius lib. 2. & chap. 1. lib. 4. chap. 8. and lib. 24. nei­ther ought to be in the church of God, because it is a mes­sage of contention, & braw­ling, and hath wrought great discomfort in the hearts of the godly, and hath destroyed many soules (without Gods great mercie) which are departed from the Church vppon offence taken by it. Reade it for more proofe against it. Another reason is this. From that Church which hath a new and strange ministerie, neuer ordained by God, ought euery one that will be saued, to separate but such is the Church of England, say the Disciplinarians & namely Master Cartwright Booke 2. pages 438. 439. and 445 [Page] and the Sermon vpon the 12 to the Romanes in these words: Q This sermon is the foundation of Brownisme, and is fully confuted by M. Rogers of. wee want our Pa­stors, Teachers, Elders, Deacons, and widowes, and in steed of them, haue the false Ministers of Antichrist, Namely, Archbishops, Bishops, Priestes and Deacons, who stole in (saith hee) whiles the watchmen were asleepe, and with the length of their vnlawfull swordes (marke I pray you, how Master Chadderton di­sputes for a separation) kept out the Ministers of Christ. If this be true, the Church of England is not the Church of God, and then we ought still to separate. Another reason is this. From that Church which hath not onely a false Ministerie but a false worship, and false counterfeit Sacraments ought euery one to separate. But such is the Church of England, saith Master Cartwright, and the rest of the Admonitioners to the Parlia­ment, in their two admonitions (confuted by my Lorde of Canterburie that now is) in these words: Wee stand not for trifles, as for Cappe & Surplesse (as we are falsely charged) but for a true worship, & for Ministerie of GOD, and for the true sacramēts of Iesus Christ, R This is the very principall of all the the Brownists arguments for their se­paration that wee want the true wor­ship, Ministerie, and Sacraments of God (as these men say) and indeede if our Church did want them, the Brow­nists were in the right, for then could not our church be the church of God. which beeing once established, the rest melt a­way of themselues. And in another place of that Book they say. That our publike worship was raked, or cul­led out of the Popes dūghil. And that our ministery is come as out of the Troiā horses bel­ley, to destroy the church of God. Now of these their Doctrines were true, which are the very grounds of their Discipline, the Church of England could not be the Church of God, for the reasons aforesaid, neither may any ioyne therewith, but they must be pertakers of her sinnes, and so of her plagues. But these their grounds are most false, and schismaticall: and if any be otherwise minded, it seemes to me, that hee hath small vn­derstanding, and lesse conscience, if he doe not ioyne with those [Page] that haue rent themselues from our Church commonly called the Brownists. Many such doctrines they haue in their wri­tings, and some more dangerous: but these are sufficient to prooue that for which they are alledged.

For these and such like doctrines of theirs, together with the exclamings and disgracings of the persons of many learned men, both Bishops and others, withall manner of vi [...]uperous words, hath drawne a multitude of poore simple people from the Church, into this schismaticall separation to their vtter de­struction, some by gallowes, some by imprisonment and some by banishing themselues vnforcedly. God direct all his Elect to discerne of such seducing doctrines, and to avoyde them, and make vs of one minde, and iudgement in approouing of his ordinances in the Church of England. That so we may with­out grudging or dissenting bitterly one from another (as the manner of some is) ioyne together in the same ordinances of God, with peaceable & quiet consciences like true members of the bodie of that Church whereof Christ is the head. Because those ordinances are approoued out of the Epistles of Paul to Timothy, and Titus, to be of God & by the iudgement of all the Churches of God in this world, for a thousand fiue hun­dred yeers and more. Who neuer knew other ordinances: nor gaue other exhortations from those Scriptures in that mat­ter of gouernment, as Bishop Cranmer, Bishop Hooper, Bishop Latimer, Farrar, Ridly, Philpot, doe testifie which practise and iudgement of the whole Church of Christ appro­ued by these our late Martyrs (who liued and dyed vnder the same gouernment) it is more then presumption to reiect, except men doe thinke themselues wiser in this troublesome age, then all the world were before them. And except they think that all the godly Histories left for the helpe of posterities, be of no more credite than Guy a Warwicke, or Scoggins iests, which were too profaine a conceit for any Christian man.

You willed me not to be an enemy to those men which haue deuised, and doe fauor this new Discipline. I protest before him that searcheth the heartes and reines, that I honor many [Page] of them for their gifts, and paines in the Church of God: and was easily drawne to receiue their iudgement in this point, to like of it, and to walke in it, although to my very great hinde­rance, vntill I saw it confuted by a manifest truth, confirmed by the Scriptures, Fathers, and themselues, who diuers of them haue both by their writings and practise confuted their owne former positions (touching these things) I me [...]e both strangers, and men of our owne nation. Now I beseech you once more, though not for my sake which am (as you say) with­out all knowledge & vnderstanding, yet for the church of Gods sake, and for those learned mens sakes, from whose works & at whose feet I haue learned these things (euē as Paul did the law at the feete of Gamaliell) & especially for your own good, con­sider indifferently of these things, and then returne mee the christian censure of them. The Lord make you able to giue a true iudgement, to whose protection I commit you, and your charge. Dated this 17. of August. 1599.

‘Let the Reader iudge, not according to the out­ward appearance, but iudge righteous iudge­ment. Iohn 7.24.’

Aprill. 1599. In the Play of Sainct. Cruss.

MAister Bern-here, since I last wrote you an answere to the reprochfull Letter, wherein you published mee to bee vsed in Barbary as a spie, and an Informer, I haue receiued three Letters from you, and a booke pretending to answere that short discourse which I sent you at your request. How it is performed, let the indifferent iudge. I was fully purposed to haue giuen ouer this contending with you, hauing neither lust, nor leasure to employ my wittes that way, as you might [Page] wel perceiued by my silence to your 2. Letters and your booke. Perceiuing also my disgrace to be sought by sending your Let­ters open to my chiefest friendes: whose affections you haue drawē before to approoue wholy of your Iudgemēt, especially one of them: But I hope the Lord will make manifest, ere long, his truth to them all that are thus seduced: in the meane time ne [...]ther you nor they shall want my prayers to effect it. In this your Letter you often vrged me to answere you, and likewise in your booke, and in the other large Letter. Truely M. Bernhere, you haue (me thinkes) no reason so to doe, the match being so vnequall in many respects. For if my know­ledge were comparable to yours, as (the Lord knoweth) it is inferior to many thousands of my brethren: yet you should con­sider that I haue a great charge of small children to sustaine by mine hand-labour, hauing no other helpe at all left, from which, me thinks, you should not thus withdraw mee. In the last Letter you are offended that I should write I. W. What I conceaue of your booke: but I must craue your patience to write both to you and others what I conceiue in these cau­ses. You are likewise offended, that I should write to him that you are so farre from confessing your ouersight imagi­ning me to be a spie and an informer, that you perswade me, if I be not, to become one. You demande of me, if you perswade me to be a busie body, and an informer. I answere, you doe. Your words be these: If you beleeue that Discipline to be a devise of men, & the gouernment by Bishops to be Gods ordinance, then surely (say you) vnlesse you would betray the truth of God, and be a boulsterer of error & fancie in the worship of God, yea, bee a foe to so many Country­men, by perswasion now in danger to be deeiued. Then I say you ought to stand against me, and others therin and also to informe of vs to the Magistrates of our Lande, to preuent the danger which by our vnlawfull courses in matters of reli­gion, & Gods worship so many Englishmen might be brought into. Therefore to informe in such a case, & vpon such grounds were no bad part, but the part both of a good subiect, and of a [Page] good Christian. Thus much concerning the words, wherein you both send me word that you are about to deceiue her Ma­iesties subiects, and perswade me to informe against you in this matter: both which you denie in your last letter: at which I greatly maruell, and doe indeed impute it to your want of me­morie.

You are likewise offended that I should write to Richard Ratcliffe (sometimes my seruant) how you and M. Iohnson conceiue of me. But you haue no reason so to be. For beeing by M. Iohnson falsely standered, wh [...]ch by three letters (which here I haue by Gods prouidence) may appeare, and by you strongly suspected both in that matter, and others, as by your letters appeareth likwise. And seeing the affections of olde friends are drawne from me, I haue no man f [...]ter to acquaint with my griefe, that would minister any comfort to my affli­cted soule, than he, whom I brought vp in m [...]ne house of a ladde: who must needs know my carriage better in seuen yeares ser­uice, than either M. Iohnson or you: and I doubt not will speake according to his knowledge, in defence of my credit a­gainst whomsoeuer. For although by following these trouble­some courses, I haue beene brought poore, and so remaine, whereby I haue not the credit with the rich men of the world, which you and others haue: yet I praise God, my carriage hath beene such towards all men, that if need required. I could bring the testimony, not only of my neighbours of the best sort, where I haue beene, and doe dwell, but of those who brought me vp in London: and of all others, with whom I haue dealt in worldly affaires, for my good behauiour. You are also not pleased, that I say you oppose your iudgement, and some others by you mi­staken against the Primitiue Church, and those that haue, and those that had succeeded them vntill this age. But that which I haue said is true, and now you iustifie it. For here you say, you bring reasons to prooue your Discipline lawfull, and to confute the contrarie, as you say in the booke: whereby, what doe you else conclude, but that so many hundred of learned Bi­shops, and most of them godly Martyrs, were ignorant of the sense of the Scriptures: yea euen since the Apostles times, and [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] had thrust out Christs kingdome (as you call it) to establish their owne deuises. For that this gouernment by Bishops, hath continued in the Church since the Apostles times, and so is according to the word of God, S See Eusebius, lib. 2. chap. 1. pa. 19. that Iames was Bishop of Ierusalem, and chap. 23. &c. and the practise of the Primitiue church. M. Fox out of all Ecclesiasticall hi­stories doeth affirme, who should be as well able to iudge, giuing himselfe wholly to y^e kind of studie, T That Marke was Bishop of Alex­andria, read Eusebius booke 2. chap. 24. page 35. for seuen yeres to­gether, as much as any which is of your minde, no disgrace to either of them. And with him, agree Caluine and Beza, though you denie it twenty times, V That Titus & Timothy were Bi­shops of Creta and Ephesus, read Euse­bius lib. 3. chap. 4. page 37. whose au­thoritie, I thinke, will beare downe all your seuen sheetes of paper, wrote to prooue the contrarie. as is shewed in my first writing to you of this matter at large. And heere is that answered, where you demaund, how our Booke of Martyrs is become an olde wiues fa­ble. I wrote I.W. and doe indeede still affirme, that if your Booke doe defend a Truth, our Booke of Martyrs is worse than an olde wiues fable. For men doe read of Guy of War­wicke, and of Launcelet, one of the Knights of the Round fa­ble, of King Arthur, as of fables, and men giue no credit to them, and so can take little harme by them, except losse of time, which might be better bestowed.

But men read the Booke of Martyrs, as a booke of credit, next to the booke of God. At least, I meane, that part which concerneth the state of the poore Churches, for 300. yeares af­ter Christ. In which time, the Pope of Rome had no more au­thoritie, W See book of Mar­tyrs, last Edition, page 8. than other Popes had: for the name was then common to all Bishops, saith M. Foxe. And whereas you doe maruell that I will alleadge the Booke of Martyrs, seeing M. Foxe (as you say) hath many things against the gouernment of our Church by Bishops. I maruell much more, why you should [Page] dislike the alledging of it, seeing it is the vniuersall iudgement of Gods Church, whose practise together with their iudge­ment, is wholy against you, as all Histories doe witnesse. For his iudgement concerning Arch­bishops and Bishops, X Read booke of Martyrs, page 15. last edition; there Master Fox af­firmes, that the Offices of Arch­bishops, Bishops, Priests and Dea­cons, are lawfull by the word of God, and the practise of the Pri­mitiue church. I hope he will bee no more abused against Bishops authoritie. Reade 15 page, neither is there any thing in it, against our Churches as you say. For where any of the Martyrs which suffered vnder Antichrist wrote or spake a­gainst Bishops they are to bee vnderstood of the Bishop of Rome, and his adherents, neuer meaning thereby to disgrace those Bishops that professed the truth. Let Caluine and Beza speake for all the rest. Caluine doth acknowledge him to bee subiect vnto the greatest curse or casting to the deuill y^e may be, which shall not be subiect to the Bishop of Geneua, if hee will leaue his popish religion, and confesseth in many other places, that this order came from the Apostles, as I haue shewed in my former writing.

M. Beza hath likewise cleered this point, both for himselfe and his fellowes, not onely in his booke against Sarauia, speak­ing of the Church of England by name, but more particularly in his letters to the L. Archbishop of Canterburie, subscribed by himselfe and Sadeel, in the name of the whole Ministrie of Geneua: wherein he professeth that it troubled them much, that any man should apply that which they had written against the Antichrist of Rome, to the Bishops professing the Gospell, and wisheth that such arrogancie may be farre from them. Let vs heare no more of Caluin and Beza, I pray you, for you see that which I said to be true: that whensoeuer any learned men did oppose against them in this point, they yielded to truth, shewing themselues to be conscionable men. And I pray to God that others which are of that humour, would herein followe their example. To these might be added, the authoritie & iudge­ment of many other late writers, but M. Foxe shall conclude this point, where hee writeth thus: Setting downe what [Page] gouernment the Scriptures, and the practise of the Primitiue Church approoueth, affirming that the Church of England hath the same in vse: his words be these, page 15. before cited. We take not away (saith he) the distinctions of ordinarie de­grees, such as by the Scriptures bee appointed, or by the Primitiue Church allowed: as first, Patriarkes or Archbi­shops: secondly, Bishops thirdly Ministers: fourthly, Deacōs: for of these foure we read. Then Laie Elders were not known to the first Churches, by M. Foxe his iudgement. In which fower degrees, as we grant diuersitie of office, so we, speaking of the Church of England, doe admit in the same diuersitie of dignity (away with equalitie) neither denying that which is due to each degree, nor yet maintaining the ambition of any singu­lar person. For as wee giue to the Minister place aboue the Deacon to the Bishop aboue the Minister, to the Archbishop aboue the Bishop, &c. Here is, I say, neuer a Lay and vn­preaching Elder and yet M. Foxe saith, this is to keepe an or­der duely and truely in the Church, and so doth Augustine by him cited. Let vs heare no more of M. Fox I pray you for you see that he hath giuen you the bagge, in his owne direct iudge­ment, grounding himselfe, as I will say, vpon the word, and purest Churches of God.

Concerning the Lord Cobham and M. Swinderly whom you mention as friends to your cause I say they neuer dreamed of this discipline you vrge, nor euer withstood the authoritie of Bishops maintaining the truth of Christs Gospell as ours doe. They dealt against the Pope and his vsurped authoritie, according to their knowledge which was far short, God know­eth, of that perfection, our Bishops are come vnto, and doe by the mercie of God both professe and preach. Let the storie of Swinderley, though he were a Scholler and a Priest, wit­nesse.

The like answere you must receaue to Iohn Claidons se­cond article, booke of Martyrs page 588. which you alledge as a proofe that our Bishops are Antichristian, and the seates of the beast. But I wonder that you would once conceiue, that any in his right wits would beleeue you. These are [Page] Iohn Claidons wordes: Artic. 2. That Arch-bishops and Bishops indifferently are the seats of the beast Antichrist, when Antichrist sitteth in them, and raigneth aboue other people in the darke cause of errors, and heresies maintai­ned by them. Now what kinde of reason is this. Clayden saith and truly. For I know no Protestants differ from him in so saying, that al those Archbishops, or Bishops which main­tain the idolatrous Religiō of Rome, & the vsurped power of the pope, are the seats of Antichrist. Therefore all those Archbishops and Bishops, that professe the glorious Gospel of Christ, and renounce the vsurped power of the Pope, are the seates of Antichrist. If honest Iohn Clayden heard you thus straine his wordes, contrarie to his true meaning, hee would thinke the worse of your new discipline whiles hee li­ued. I beleeue, a mā may truly say that all those Lords, knights and Gentlemen, which haue renounced her Maiesties lawfull authoritie, and ioyned with that Irish Traytor Tyrone; are indifferently enemies to her Maiestie: but he were a bad or mad Logician that would hereupon conclude, that all the Lordes, Knights & Gentlemen in England, Scotland, and the whole world were enemies to her Highnesse. This is not farre from Tom Scull his argument. Concerning the Lorde Cob­ham, I beleeue that he is so far frō releeuing your cause in this point, that if his words might be taken, hee cleane confutes it. For in his last answere before Thomas Arundell, Archbishop of Canterburie and others. Hee confesseth that there were many godly Bishops in Rome before Antichrists time, Y See book of Mar­tyrs pag. 518. in the Mar­gent of the last e­dition. whereof 26. were Martyrs, foure excepted. Maister-Fox, setteth downe their names in his first booke.

You wonder that I should write, that there was no Pa­pist nor Poperie, [...]n the time of the first ten persecutions, nor long after, but I still affirme it, grounding my selfe vpon M. Fox, whose whole studie for many yeeres was, to publish the truth of all Histories, Councels and Fathers, who was as well able, I beleeue to iudge in that case, as any that oppose themselues against him. Now he diuides the Church in­to her sundry estates before the Apostacie. The first 300, [Page] yeeres, hee termes the suffering time, the next three hundred yeeres the growing time, the third three hundred yeers, the de­clining time. I hope your wonder is now at an ende. For I doe still affirme vpon this ground, that for fiue or sixe hundred yeeres, there was neither Pope nor Papist as wee doe nowe vnderstand Pope and Papist: And as for Poperie, which you say was in the tenne first persecutions, I thinke you can hardly prooue that any one Citie, or Church did for two or three hundred yeeres after that, if not moe, professe that Religion wholy which is now taught in Rome: nay, I am sure, you cannot. But if by Poperie you meane any error or corruption in doctrine. I doe withstand you. For so wee may say there was Poperie in the time of Christ, yea and long before, euen from the beginning, which were absurd. Concerning Pope­rie I take it (vnder correction) to be the huge heape and dung­hill of errors and traditions, partly consisting of the errors of the Fathers, and partly of the deuises and inuentions of the latter Popes of Rome contrary, and besides the Scriptures in many yeeres patched together, and confirmed by the Pope to be obserued, vnder paine of their heauie curse, and crymation of heresie, Lollardie, and what other name of reproch soeuer, vpon all those that submit not themselues ther­vnto in the Apostaticall Church with an immunitie of disobe­ence to the holy and sacred word of God &c. that the Scriptures might be fulfilled. 2. Thes. 4.23.

Next you affirme, that you desire to conforme the Mer­chants, to the French and Dutch Church. To which I say but this, that seeing they are English subiects, you should haue done much better to haue conformed them to the godly procee­dings of their Pr [...]nce and Church at home, where by Gods grace, they meane to spend their dayes, and from which I hope they will not be easily drawen.

But you take occasion to affirme that discipline to be Gods perpetuall Ordinance, because her Maiestie and the Bishops, as you said (as though they were her parteners) doe suffer it in London. But you had forgotten that Mully Hammet suf­fers you to professe the Gospel in Moroccus, and the Masse [Page] is likewise suffred there, and yet the King neither approoues the one nor the other. And if her Maiestie should vpon occasi­on (as sometime she hath done) suffer the Masse to bee vsed by Strangers in England, it were a sawsie part for any priuate Subiect (as I take it) to withstand her or charge her to ap­proue of it therein. But what is her suffering of them in Lon­don to you which affirme that discipline, to bee of Gods per­tual ordināce, & our by her highnesse established to be Antichri­stian and diuelish, as many of you haue written. But the French and Dutch Churches neuer held any such thing, wit­nes Caluine and Beza, as is beforesaid. And though hir Maie­stie and the State were not so precise at their first comming, as to examine them of euery particular, seeing they were driuen out of their countrie, for the Gospel sake: yet some of them haue, at least their Teachers (as I haue heard) subscribed to her Highnes godly proceedings, like peaceable Christian brethren: and haue done it of purpose to satisfie her Highnes, that they were no fauourers of any that refused to doe the like.

Whereas you will me to send you order, how to deliuer the Sacraments: I answer, as Elutherius Bishop of Rome did to King Lucius of England: You haue Gods Booke, there may you see how. But this withall, if you in least make mee a Pope, I say it is against your profession: and if you be in ear­nest, when you come home, resort to your Ordinarie, and he no doubt will aduise you to minister according to her Maiesties lawes: and withall, admonish you of your fault, for presuming to oppose your selfe against a Church established according to Gods word, and the practise of all Antiquitie, before you knew how to administer according to your calling.

Concerning your booke, although I was purposed not to haue written you any more, for the reasons aforesaid: yet being by you so earnestly prouoked, I wil take a little paines to shew you my iudgement briefly, to some of your Allegations, in cer­taine marginall notes. And if you desire any more generall and large answere, I must referre you to those, to whom it be­longs, and whose disgrace you doe especially labour in it, insi­nuating that they misalleadge the Fathers, and the new wri­ters: [Page] and are con [...]rary to themselues, especially father Bilson.

But one thing in your Booke I much muse at, Namely, why you beare me in hand, that Bishop Hooper and Bishop Iewell are approouers of your Discipline, and enemies to the authoritie of bishops, which I dare say they neuer dreamed of, at least not of approouing your Discipline. Truly, if I were driuen to so poore a shift for the defence of your Discipline, I would leaue it in the plaine field to seeke a new proctor. I haue read bishop Hooper, vpon the eight Commandement very of­ten, and there is no one word at all that you alledge out of him touching the authoritie of Bishops, either concerning bad Bi­shops or good, except you will reason thus. Bishop Hooper reprooues other Bishops for not preaching so oft, and so care­fully as they should and therefore your Discipline is lawfull. Or thus, Bishop Hooper saith, a Bishop should bee but bishop of one Citie or Bishopricke as hee was, therefore Bishops are Antichristian and vnlawfull. But (as little wit as I haue) to reason thus is without reason. For if a Preacher at Pauls crosse, reprooue the Iudges for corruption in iudgement or iu­stice, doth it follow thereupon that hee denies the Magistrates lawfull authoritie. The like answere you must receiue to bi­shop Iewell, and Doctor Raynolds, who (you say) approoues of your Discipline. For thus I finde bishop Iewell, giue his censure against it, Namely, that it is an new assertion of yong­lings. It is but wantonnesse (saith hee) correction will helpe it, doe you not thinke that God will call you to account for thus abusing his holy Seruants, by perswading the world that they fauoured your fancies, and that (as it is to bee feared) against your consciences. A See Eu­sebius lib. 2. chap. 23. page. 32. But M. Raynolds you alledge oft, who af­firmeth that Iames was not the bishop of Ierusalem. For that were to preferre him out of the hall into the kitchin (say you) For answere heerevnto I say, that it is like that Cle­mens and Aegesippus (who liued in the next age to the Apostles) should know as well as M. Reynolds, (no disgrace to that learned and godly man) & they affirme him to be bishop of that citie, as M. Fox cites them, page. 30. And so doe all the Fathers of the Primitiue church, as farr as I can learne, [Page] but you (as it seemes) are in conceite that men will beleeue your writings without all examination: But beleeue mee, we haue done so too long, or els I see not why you should al­ledge M. Doctor Raynolds, against the lawfull authoritie of our Bishops, who howsoeuer be thinks, Iames being an Apo­stle could not be a bishop of Ierusalē: yet is he so full for the au­thoritie of our Bishops, that I doe wonder men are not asha­med to vse his name and his workes for defence of such fancies. I haue often read that booke against M. Heart, whereof you make mention, and no man can be more flat against the deuise of the equalitie of Pastors then hee is, If ye beleeue not me, yet beleeue himselfe, where hee writes thus: In the Church of Ephesus, though it had sundry pastors, or Elders to guide it, yet among those was one chiefe, whome our Saui­our calleth the Angel of that Church. And this is he whom afterwards in the Primitiue church, the Fathers called Bi­shop. Thus you see these learned men (if euer they fauoured it) haue taken their leaue of your deuise:

M. Doctor Fulke is likewise abused by you where you oft make him a paterne of your conceit if not (as I say) against your own conscience, B Fulke in his cōfu­tation of the An­notatiōs on the Remish Testa­ment. yet against his expresse words and mea­ning. And let the world iudge if I said not right before. That when soeuer any of our new Writers speake against Bishops in generall, they are to be vnderstood to meane the Pope, and such bishops as maintaine his false Religion and vsurpation, which I would to God, poore people in these dayes could wa­rily consider. For it should keepe them from this fancie of e­qualitie, which now by the abuse of these mens workes they gape after. But to his words: Amongst the Clergie (saith he) for order and seemely gouernment, there was alway one principall &c. which roome Titus exercised in Creta, and Timothie in Ephesus &. Truly M. Bern-here, the al­ledging of these men is so grosse an ouersight, that it makes me mistrust many other of your allegations, C Iewell. and authors which I haue not means to peruse. For this may be as a 1000. witnes­ses against you, Namely, D Hooper E. Ray­nolds. that one of them liued and dyed a Bishop, and one of them a most godly Martyr, the other (also is yet aliue) haue their published workes, to confute that [Page] which you and others would father vpon them.

Now what an horrible presumption is it, to thinke that such excellent learned men, who take such paines in writing and preaching for the spreading and defence of the Gospell, and one of them gaue his life for it in the flaming fire, should liue all their liues in knowne sin, and die without repentance, name­ly in an Antichristian calling, which they might easily haue bin ridde of if they (as you say) had so esteemed it.

And whereas you say in the booke, page. 4. that I am one of my newe Maisters haue disgraciously stinged Maister Calvine. I answere that you haue abused vs both. For where as you charge these bookes. The Suruay of Disci­pline, and the perpetuall gouernment by mee alledged to be bit­ter and sharpe, and take it in ill part, that M. Caluins iudge­ment in this matter is refused, which you say greeueth you.

This you must take for answere, namely that it greeueth o­thers as much to see you and others of your minde reiect the whole Church of God for 1500. yeeres, and all the godly Fa­thers thereof with much more sharpnesse and bitternes. Bring the consent of the whole Church against you, and it is wickedly termed the moouing & summoning of Hell, by M. Cartwright. Booke, 2. page 513. Bring the Fathers which liued 100. yeers after Christ, and the alledging of their workes is by him termed a raking in the ditches, lib. 1. page 114. And as for the learned men now liuing, your companions in this busines haue sought their vtter disgrace, by publishing them in print to the worlde, to bee a conuocation house of deuils, like incar­nate diuels, Bishops of the diuels. Bishops (saith one of you) are cogging and coosening knawes. They will lie like dogs. Bishops (saith another Reformer) are proude, po­pish, presumtious, palterie, pestilent, pernitious Prelates: shamelesse and wainscot faced Bishops like beasts. The worst Puritane (saith an other) is an honester man, then the best Lord Bishop in Christendome, If you know not where those blasphemous reproches, and hellish taunting tearmes are written, I can show you with a wet finger. And now I pray you, compare these your reformed Bookes defending your ho­ly cause, with the bookes by me cited, and tell mee in your con­science, [Page] which of them are most sharpe & bitter. As for that re­uerend learned man M. Caluin. I for my part neuer sought his disgrace in any thing (God is record) except the refusing his iudgement (where he refuseth the iudgement and practise of the Primitiue Church, as Master Fox and himselfe also prooueth) be a disgrace vnto him, and then both hee and you must pardon me and others, But you in thus writing (I see well) seeke my disgrace, as likewise in your letters directed to mee, but sent o­pen to those that were my best friends, stuffed full of false sur­mises, wherein although you cannot (I praise God) discredite me, yet you haue done me more hurt in withdrawing the af­fections of my friends from me this hard time, then I feare you wil doe me good in hast. But let that passe, if you account the refusing of Maister Caluines iudgement when hee dissents from the whole Church of Christ, as in some of his workes at some time he hath done, and the modest refelling of his argu­mentes by men, as well learned as himselfe, both of our owne nation & strangers, as Melancthton, Camerarius, Bu­cer, Erasmus, George prince Anhat, Zanchius, and many o­thers, together with the confessiōs & practise of many reformed Churches 24. whereof I haue set downe in my last Letters to you, besides 35. free Citites as the Suruay sheweth, page 362. If you acount, I say, this modest refussng or refelling of his errors to bee a disgracefull stinging of him, I pray you what would you haue men to thinke of him that writes thus vnaduisedly, vnchristianly and bitterly. That all they (with­out exception) that resist his gouerment by vnpreaching elders haue no more religion then Doggs, and are worse then Turks or Iewes: yea or brute beasts yea that they haue no sure religiō: and lastly that those churches kingdomes and people are filthy villaines which resist it. For my part I vtterly dislike this vn­ciuill and more then outragious deprauation of any professing Christianity, & do verily thinke that our most gratious Qeene and so many religious Princes, learned Bishops and Pastors, vniuersities and godly reformed Churches, as alwayes haue and at this time doe refuse that Eldership, as a meere deuise of mans braine, to be better esteemed of then Dogs, Turkes, &c. [Page] As those churches following, the Church of England, D [...] marke, Norway, Sweuia, Germanie, for the most pa [...], [...] the Churches within the Dutchie of Saxonie, of Brunsw [...] & Luneburgh. Also the Dutchie of Megalaburgh, of Wit [...] burgh, all the Churches within the Countries of the Mar­quesse of Brandeburgh, and the Marquesse of Ba [...]de, all the Churches, within the gouernment of the Erldome of He [...] burgh, the Erldome of Swartzenbergh, the Erldome of [...] ningh, the Erldome of Hannawe, the Erldome of Orting [...], the Erldom of Mansfield, the Erldom of Stalbergh, the Erl­dom of Gliche, &c. as in the twentieth chapter of the Sur­uay of Discipline, page 362. together withall the Martyrs of the Primitiue Churches, and our late Martyrs, which [...] ­ed in that holy calling, which you count antichristian and d [...] ­uilish as is shewed. As Archbishop Cranmer, Bishop Rid­ley, Bishop Hooper, Bishop Farrar, Latemer, Philpo [...] with many others. I say once againe, that I suppose how that all these princes Churches and Martyrs, both haue and d [...] deserue to be better esteemed then Doggs, Turkes, Iewes, brute beasts, or filthy villaines. And if you would not a­gaine call it a disgracefull stinging of him, I should ve [...] thinke that Maister Caluin, might haue beene better exerci­sed then when he studied, that part of his Sermon and like wi [...] when he preached it, seeking to disgrace as godly as euer w [...] in Geneua. And so might he that did translate that opprobri­ous part of it into English, whosoeuer hee was, and I hope [...] good subiects are of my minde. Thus you see that in striking at me, and at those reuerend and learned fathers of our church [...] by whome I am taught (as you say) you haue missed vs all, and wounded some of the best friends both at home and abroad to the very heart. And you may see that the measure which you meat falsely to others, is iustly returned to you, and your friends againe, that the Scriptures might be fulfilled, Luke 6.38.

Concerning the ciuill authority of our Bishops at which you gird so often both in your booke & Letters. I haue answe­red it in my last Letters & cannot by the reading of your books [Page] conceaue how the worde of God, should become so partiall as to allow Maister Caluine and Beza, to bee of the coun­cell of s [...]ate in Geneva, and to denie it to the Arch-bishop of Canterbury, or other Ministers in England. For meaner men, then Caluine and Beza are Magistrates at Geneua, namely, all their lay Elders, and M. Beza is, and Caluine was, whiles [...]e liued of the Councell of State. By vertue whereof it was as I haue said in my last letter that he did call before him certaine persons, for dancing in one Balthasar his house in Geneua. Among whom was one Henrich a Mini­ster, who labored to defend that honest pastime, if any were. But they all denying it M. Caluine, by vertue of his ciuill office, forced them to take an othe. This the Minister refused to doe, holding it vnlawfull and alledged the place which M. Cart-wright did vnto the Commissioners in London: A­gainst an Elder receaue none accusation, but vnder two or three witnesses, which M. Caluine affirmeth to be a pleasant lest, and forcing them by oth to confesse, committed them all to prison, one except being one of the foure Syndicles or chiefe Magistrates of the citie, and depriued Henrich the Minister. Now why a Bishop may not as lawfully bee a counseller in England, and take othes in lawfull causes, and commit to prison if the Prince will, as M. Caluine, or Beza in Geneua, (as I said) I see not any reason. But your Letter put mee in minde, of the 26. chapter of the suruay of your Discipline, which prooueth that what you condemne in others you doe approoue and allow in your selues.

Where I said, that M. Caluine thought so honorably of the law of Geneua, that he told certaine offenders in that Citie that except they would be subiect to the lawes of the Citie, they must build thē a citie by thēselues, & dwel in it, you answer, what is that to our laws, seeing their laws are all approued by Gods word: he did wel say you, as though their laws were al spiritu­all, & ours carnal. Oh blessed cōceit of holy Geneua. I feare it wil shortly prooue an other idol Rome & people fall to worship it as a church that cannot er, wel I see you are a partial iudge, and therefore shall not bee admitted by my consent to censure lawes of your prince and count [...]ey.

you must beare with mee, for indeed your snuffing at the [...] ­ning of her Maiesties Lawes liketh mee not I promise y^• [...]

In your last letter, you will me not to trouble you any [...] with my new Maisters bookes, neither to tell you of Fat [...] which M. Fox mentioneth, councels, nor antiquities, bec [...] I do not vnderstand their owne workes and language. You might as well haue forbidden me, & other men the Scriptu [...] for I can vnderstand no Hebrew nor greeke. Your slender [...] count of the learned Fathers of the Primitiue Church, ma [...] me wonder, seeing all the godly in the world hath them in high reuerence, saue men of your humor. Indeed, when I read that part of your letter, it put me in minde of a friend of your co [...] ceit, namely, M. Iacob, who hath (to vse your owne term [...]) patched together a certaine Pamphlet against that learned father Bishop Bilson his sermōs of Christs sufferings. Where the Bishop bringing the testimonies of al y^e fathers, for 1500. yeres hee very presumptuously opposeth his owne iudgement against them all in that matter, as you doe in this, and re [...]e [...]t them in this malapert manner. If (saith hee) you see the F [...] ­thers variable or against vs, thinke it not strange, for you must not take them as iudges of the Scriptures sense. Con­ceit is much, belike to iudge of Scriptures sense, is proper to him and his friend. But if one of another humor should [...] slightly reiect a few late writers, fauouring your discipline in learning and godlinesse farre short of those reiected Fathers, hee would be thought a presumptuous hinde, and an arrogant companion, I perswade my selfe. And sure if he or any other shall suffer themselues to bee so farre seduced by Sathan, as to imagine they haue another spirit to reueale newe truthes, which the Fathers of the Primitiue knew not, I feare it w [...]ll prooue the spirit of delusion, which the Apostle speaks of, which shall deceiue such as will not rest in the iudgement of Go [...] Church nor in the loue of the truth. 2. Thess. 2.10.11. The godly learned in all ages since as our Martyr-booke doth wit­nesse, haue had those Fathers and Churches in singular reue­rence, and namely our late Martyrs, (as our Martyr booke doth witnesse.) Heare I pray you, what a graue learned man, [Page] and in Queene Maries day [...] a blessed Martyr thinke [...] [...]f these Churches and Fathers, which you and Maister Iacob set so light by booke of Martyrs page. 1670. And truly for my part I doe thinke, that hee was as learned, godly, and as zealous for Gods glorie and true religiō as any disciplinarian in Christendome, none excepted. Yet he was so farre of from reiecting the first Churches of God and the Fathers, which taught them, that he in matters of God restes in their iudge­ments. Heare what hee hath written to one, ready to bee se­ [...]uced by Sathā. All the church here militant ought to con­sent to the Primitiue Church. And againe, They haue vn­speakable ioy, which bee at vnitie with the Primitiue church. And againe, I construe it to bee the will of God, to mooue you with many others to conforme your selues in all your opinions, touching faith to the Primitiue Church, which is the piller and stablishment of truth. And againe, The pri­mitiue church had a greater fulnesse of truth, then we haue now. The first fruites of the holy Ghost did declare the true interpretation of the Scriptures, vnto them according to all veritie. This is true humiliation, and if I were in M. Iacobs skinne, I should blush to read it. And againe (saith M. Philpot) And since all truth was taught to the Primitiue church, which is our Mother, let all the obedient children of God, submit themselues to the iudgement of the church, for the better vnderstanding of the Articles of the Faith, and of the doubtfull Sentences of the Scripture. Let vs not goe about, to shew in vs (by following any mans priuate interpretation vpon the worde) another spirit than they of the Primitiue Church had, lest wee deceaue our selues. For there is but one faith and one spirit, which is not contrary to himselfe, neither otherwise now teacheth vs then hee did them. Therfore let vs beleeue as they haue taught vs from the scrip­tures. Therefore God commanded vs in Iob, to aske of the Elder generation, and to seeke diligently the memorie of the Fathers. (For we are but Yesterdaies children, and are igno­rant) and they shall teach thee, and vtter the words from their hearts. The Lord (saith hee) grant you to direct your steps, [Page] after her in all things and to abhorre contention with he [...]. [...] againe, Be conformable to the Primitiue church, and [...] doubtlesse you cannot erre in matters of faith. And thus w [...]h good M. Philpot writes in the behalfe of that Church, [...] those learned fathers, which now are so slightly set by. If yo [...] shall thinke of this holy Martyrs iudgement, as M. Iacob doth of all the fathers. I shall thinke of you as I doe of h [...], namely, that you are not guided by that holy and humble [...]i­rit, which the Primitiue Church, and godly M. Philpot w [...] guided by. For they thought better of euery godly, learn [...] man, then of themselues as their workes declare.

And now to conclude, seeing you will not bee troubled, with the books, nor the Fathers iudgements, I pray you trouble mee no more with your newe expositions of the Epistles of Paul to Timothie and Titus. For indeed I hold it safer (ac­cording to holy Philpots iudgement) to follow the iudgement of the Primitiue Church, and those Councels and Fathers, with which you will not be troubled, then yours according to Iobs counsall 8, chap. 8. verse. And once againe, I pray yo [...] write me no more of these matters: but if you meane to pur [...] them, make choise of some Scholler which may haue mo [...]e lust and leasure, and better abilitie to defend the truth to yo [...] good, which God grant. Neither would I haue written thus much, but beeing by you so often vrged, both in your Booke and three last letters. You should not thinke, but I had some­what to say, which may in some measure, if truth may take place, satisfie you.

Where you say, finde a Bishop in all those 60. kingdomes, Cities, and prouinces, by me named in my last to you, and you wil leaue your pleading I wish you would, for they haue gene­rall Superintendents, & superintendents within their Office, differ no more from Archbishops, Bishops, then you doe from him that wrote me this Letter, that is your owne selfe.

Thus sir, wishing you all good in the Lord, and especially, that both your selfe and others by your perswasion, may thinke better of the godly Church gouernment, by our Prince established, according to the word of God, and practise of the [Page] Primitiue Churches, as is before prooued, which grace God g [...]e you all that thinke amisse of it Amen.