arising from the minutes of the last meeting. Um and just to say as well, that we're being live s= that there's a recording in progress. Uh there's no motions today. Um is there a volunteer to be vice chair in case my broadband goes down? I can do if you if mine stays up. That's great. Thanks, [anon_$032]. Okay, so uh [anon_$042] we'll head to you for um an update on the draft [anon_PL1] development plan um 2022 to 2028. So you've the floor [anon_$042] whenever you're ready. [tech noise] Is [anon_$042] with us? [tech noise] she doesn't appear to be I'll run down the corridor and see where she is. Okay, good to see the remote working is over there your end as well. Um [anon_$034] can I go to to you for the local economic and community plan, which I know will really form a lot of our workload for the next couple of months. Yeah, happy to to take that item. Um so there's a a report in uh the [anon_INST81] agenda pack uh so this is, I suppose an opportunity uh with our first meeting of the year to talk about the role uh we'll play as an [anon_INST91] in relation to the development of a new [anon_PR19]. Uh it will cover a period of of six years and it's it's a statutory uh document that it's like a sister document to the [anon_PR20]. Um so the the role of it is to promote and support economic development, and the local and community development of each local authority area by both the local authority itself but also in partnership with a wide range of economic and community uh development stakeholders. Uh and it's part of the overall um uh national transformation sanitation [anon_PR21]. So we developed our first plan for the 2016 to 2021 period. Um so the process before us now uh will involve um looking at the socio economic profile updates, since the census data very much underpins uh these plans. So the first plan was based on 2011 census data, which will be reviewed for 2016. And we're aware there will be a delay with the next uh census. But once that data is available, it will be used as a review of of the new plan. Um so the [anon_INST82] and the [anon_INST83] were both involved in the development of more detailed guidelines that will support uh uh strategic policy committees and the local community development committees who take the lead role on the development of the plans in how to uh proceed. Uh so there is um a need for us now to to form an advisory steering group, uh made up of membership of the strategic policy committee of the [anon_INST84]. And it's also open uh to um bringing in external stakeholders if um it's felt that they would have a significant uh contribution uh to make. Um so we've we've had, the guidelines are now available, and and they're up on the [anon_WS10] website, there was a briefing in December on how they are to be uh applied. So the the next steps uh will be that the the chair of our uh [anon_INST91] will will talk to the chair of the [anon_INST84] and we'll agree the the uh the approach to the formation of the advisory steering group, again, the guidelines have information on how the the membership should be selected for that. And then that will start the process then. Um it's it's a six stage process. But the the first four stages will involve uh preparation, public consultation, development of the high level goals, uh objectives and outcomes and finalization of the [anon_PR19]. One of the changes in the guidelines uh this time is that as well as developing the strategic plan, we'll also be developing an action plan that will cover the first two years uh of the [anon_PR19]. And both documents need to be prepared uh for uh for 2023. Um so uh so I suppose we're we're underway uh now uh with the work and uh there's a role set out in it uh for the advisory steering group and and the critical role that they'll play. And I suppose they'll also be the communication link between the work of of our strategic policy committee and uh the [anon_INST84]. So the guidelines set out that some of the uh objectives will be shared between community and economic, some will be pure economic and some will be pure uh community. And as well as then shaping the plan will have a role in in overseeing the implementation of the actions to deliver on on the high level goals. Uh so it's, I suppose we're better supported this time around with the guidelines. The first year uh there was less detailed information available, but I suppose this commences the process. The [anon_INST84] are meeting uh with a workshop on Wednesday of this week uh so the chairs of both groups probably meet soon after that. And it'll certainly be a big part of our work program for the year ahead and and will continue to be an agenda item subject to the um agreement of of the members for for future uh meetings. So that concludes the report. Great thanks Thanks, [anon_$034] It's great to see you back in the [anon_PL43] as well. Um is there any hands up for questions, comments, uh [anon_$035] Yeah, just to say I was just uh hello to everybody and happy new year. Um but just to say I was just reading um the document on the [anon_INST22] just before lunch. So it was just striking me too, because that document mentioned the advisory subcommittee as well. Might be an idea. I'm sure it's already been thought of [anon_$034] anyway, to have maybe a member from that office [breath in] on the [anon_INST90] as well, because there seems to be a bit of overlap and overlay there. [anon_$034] Uh yeah, thanks, [anon_$035] Uh yeah, we'd be happy to to take any suggestions and and then uh through the the chairs, we can um get a way forward, then the advice is that, you know, it's good to have input on that group. But to keep the numbers to a manageable level, because they'll probably meet need to meet fairly frequently to to move the work forward. uh councillor [anon_$036] Uh go raibh maith agut thanks for the report. Um [breath in] so so this correct me if I'm wrong, this is our second, this would be our second uh go at this. Is there any evaluation available as to what practical uh impact or usefulness was in the first one? Because I have to say, I'm always very wary of a lot of the stuff like this comes from the Department or comes from central government. A lot of it looks like keeping us busy. And, you know, keeping the the cogs moving, but not necessarily producing anything practical or any benefit in the lives of citizens in the city um I'd be interested to see if there's any analysis, or any uh outcome uh from the first plan or is it just sitting on a shelf uh now to be updated, and to take up a lot of time of our uh staff and counselors and people who might make an input into it? Um I think it'd be interesting to see that before we embark on another uh exercise of this kind, sinn é Thanks, I'll go to councillor [anon_$032] and then councillor [anon_$037] and [anon_$034], I'll go back to them at that point, councillor [anon_$032] Yeah, I just I suppose we will be getting um the city [anon_PR20] which I think this really is something that should be feeding into it, if we were going to have, you know, um you know, uh economic development and enterprise, we need to have the spaces and we need to if we're looking for the 15 Minute city, we need to be looking that people are living and working, you know, as close as possible. So when we're looking at the [anon_PR20], we really should be looking to make sure that there are enterprise spaces, and there are spaces, um you know, and where there's a lack of that in in particular locations, that we don't have everybody traveling into the city center necessarily for for work, um they could be traveling into the city center for for leisure and culture and other and and and retail but um uh working uh closer to their home. So I just think that this is something really, um you know, I'm welcome the fact that there's you've going to look at how to set it up and everything. I'm just concerned that the the implementation of it might be a bit late, you know, in the day, because we'll have already put together, um you know, and prioritized where we're putting local um action plans, and you know, and the mix that we have. Um and I just think, you know, maybe this is something that we should be looking for, for part of from our strategic policy committee to implement in the development um plan at this stage, really. So um so I welcome this I'm just wondering how we're going to actually implement it um in the in the timeframe that is here, you know, with the period covering six years, thank you. Thanks, I go to councillor [anon_$037] and then back to [anon_$034]. And if anyone else wants to come in at that point, we'll keep going. councillor [anon_$037] Thank you. Thank you very much Chair. Um thank you for the report. I very much um agree with councillor [anon_$036] I think it would be very useful if we could have an independent evaluation, which actually gives us an opportunity to look at what else we could be doing or the effectiveness of what's been done to date. So I would very much support what he said. Um have uh I had difficulty getting in there I was held up really is [anon_$040]'s report coming? We haven't dealt with that yet. I hope. No, no, not yet. And the other question is that I'm trying everything in relation to item seven on the agenda uh [anon_$045]'s report where we got a separate email to say that the separate I have looked at everything, and I can't find any attachment with that, to. So I don't know is that just me? Uh if there is an attachment of maybe could come separately so that I could read it. Uh but any of, the emails I've got no matter what I try the iPad or the the laptop or whatever, I don't seem to be able to find uh a report. Thank you. Okay, thanks councillor [anon_$037] Can someone undertake maybe to just email that attachment again to, to all of us? [anon_$038] did you want to come in there? Is your hand up? Uh yeah, Chair. Yeah, if I could just come in for a sec there. Just to say, uh on the [anon_PR19] the previous one, it was reported to this committee on a regular basis, but we actually completed all the actions uh bar, I think one and that one was held up because of I think it was a tourism one, and it just got delayed. But uh it was reported and all the actions were completed on the economic side. We don't have a report on the community side. But I know the LE= the [anon_INST84]. Uh it it reports into there on the [anon_INST84] side which is the community side. Thanks for that clarification, [anon_$038] [anon_$034] do you want to come in on anything else? Um yeah maybe just uh to respond to the questions uh councillor [anon_$036] had asked about the evaluation. So as it set out in the guidelines the the key way they want the reports evaluated is based on the updated census data, and the socio economic profiles and and councillor [anon_$037] spoken about independent analysis, we did commission [anon_INST85] to update the socio economic profiles based on the 2016 census data. And I think that might be certainly information, we're happy to share it with the full [anon_INST91] but will be shared with the advisory group. Uh but if the advisory group felt there was a need to commission further evaluation or analytics, that could be examined at the advisory group. Uh and then in relation to the work with the [anon_PR20] this document is is understood to be sister document to the [anon_PR20]. And it would certainly take cognizance of that document and a wide range of national and local documents uh in its in its formulation. Um but it it is I suppose, addressing some of the common issues such as housing and and the impact of climate on the city, but it's, I suppose, approaching it through an economic and community lens. So there will be different stakeholders and different actions uh that would be supported uh by the plan. Um so it certainly needs to be cognizant of all of the other work underway. Uh but it it has a slightly different statutory roles than the the [anon_PR20] Um and uh I think that addresses the questions I hope thank you. Thanks, [anon_$034] Uh welcome councillor [anon_$042]. I just saw saw you come in there councillor [anon_$037] you have your hand up? Do you want to come back in? I just want to to s= to know who is this advisory group? And who's on it? Um and the second question is sure. Surely, there's no reason why members of the [anon_INST91] should not be able to get a copy of that uh evaluation report? I mean, as members of the [anon_INST91] we should we should have access to it. So I'm suggesting that we do get a copy those of us who asked for it, or anyone who wants it, please. Very well, imagine there'd be no difficulty with a copy of that. Does anybody else want to come in before I go back to [anon_$040] Okay, [anon_$040] we'll get back to you for the update in respect of the [anon_PR20], you have the floor. Thank you, um hang on I'll just try and share my screen. Give me a minute now. pat= I get it right. Take your time. Is it up? It is thanks [anon_$040] Great grand. [laugh] You always have that moment of panic, don't you whenever you're doing anything online, um to do with technology. Um thanks very much for giving me the time. Um I know, this is an extremely busy [anon_INST91]. And I'll try and fly through it and give more time as possible to questions. So [breath in] um I suppose we're just at a key point in the [anon_PR20] process we're halfway through, and we're in the middle of our public consultation on the draft plan. So it's a critical point in the in the entire two year timeline. And I suppose I just wanted to use the opportunity presented by the [anon_INST91] to, to I suppose, draw your attention to the draft and to draw your attention to some of the issues that are in it in relation particularly to the issues that are uh personal to the [anon_INST91] and to I suppose give people the opportunity to consider whether they wish through their organizations to make a submission on the draft plan at this stage. So um where we're at I suppose just quick background, and this time last year, we had our pre draft consultation process when we uh a lot of organizations um made submissions, we got over 700 submissions from the public and a range of different organizations, which was great, it was much higher than normal. And following that there were over 1000 Strategic Directions made by the elected members with regard to the content of the draft plan all of which have been inputted into the policies objectives, included in the text um and following the production of the draft plan, in the end of the summer, the draft plan was debated by the elected members and over 300 motions were considered um all of which made changes to the draft plan. So that's just a very short snapshot of where we are, where we were, and how we've got. So where we are now, uh just I suppose, in the overall context of what the draft plan is looking at, I'm going to just do a quick run through the chapters and then focus in on the economic stuff. Um the population targets. Some of this is just for your reading for yourselves when you have the presentation circulated. I don't want to bore you to death with numbers. But the aim of the plan we're required on to the uh the [anon_PR23] to provide approximately 40,000 residential units to be available to be built um during the lifetime of the plan. And we've gone through all the numbers looks at what's granted, what's built, what's owned, what capacities are on all the different areas. And we are uh well assured that we have the capacity to deliver that and more we have capacity to deliver deliver just around the 50,000 units, which gives a 20% approximate headroom for the lifetime of the plan which will be considered normal. Um that's just a map, we're required to produce a map of the core strategy showing the key areas where I suppose significant volumes of housing are likely to be built during the lifetime of the plan. And they're all the strategic regeneration areas that are in the draft plan. Um that's not to say that there isn't housing being delivered across the city as part of an overall infill regeneration intensification and delivering that whole vision of a 15 minute city and getting more people within walking and cycling distance of key urban villages and places of employment. The Cha= the [anon_PR18] has a new chapter on climate action. And I suppose pulling together a lot of the strands that run through the text. And it provides I suppose, a coherent vision as to what the plan is trying to do in relation to climate action, climate resilience and climate response. So there is a requirement for uh energy statements as part of a major applications, there's policies and renewable energy policies on sustainable energy, particularly supporting the [anon_PR24], that [anon_PL42] is trying to get off the ground. There's clarity and support for the decarbonisation zones that are now, uh I suppose, being rolled out on waste management, circular economy, and particularly on green infrastructure. And then I suppose this is the whole thing about that chapter kind of laces back into all the other chapters as well. There's green infrastructure policies in this that tie in support what's happening in other parts of the [anon_PL18] um on sustainable transport motor electric vehicles, and again, that ties into the development management standards that are in chapter 15, about how many you know about the charging points that require so making it very clear to those who are building what's going to be required in the next once the plan is in place. And then also in relation to built environment policies on sustainable building, retrofitting, and reuse of buildings, all of which part of our response, Chapter Four deals with the shape and the structure of the city where and this is very much, I suppose, a team that came through very strongly in the submissions that we got issues of quality density and a mixed use approach. And I suppose that ties back to the point just made there in the meeting about ensuring that we provide spaces for all types of uses within within each of the suburbs, suburbs areas. So there's greater use say of this at 10 zoning policy, which requires a mixed use of reproach for large scale, uh uh regeneration land [breath in] um compacts grow to be promoted through infill and consolidation and through brownfield development. So all of the key policies that support that set out that agenda within the [anon_PR18] and the vision that we're trying to achieve, the importance of the urban villages has been, I suppose, a a much stronger emphasis on urban villages in this plan than previous plans, and particularly the 15 minute city and the importance of getting local employment into urban villages, which wasn't there, I suppose, as strongly before in the plan. So that's something we've worked to try improve and, we've changed the zoning policies to to take that into account, um managing height um and using criteria based approach in response to the government guidelines. And there's quite a lot of detail on that and appendix three, if you're interested. And then the whole strategic development and regeneration areas and setting of quite detailed principles about how these areas will be developed out over their lifetime, including dealing with the issue of height intensification Um Housing and Sustainable neighborhoods is chapter five. And it's I suppose that whole tying in community and housing together and recognizing that you shouldn't be dealing with these issues on kind of an individual basis, again, very much the strong theme of 15 minutes city healthy places making making, encouraging people to and giving people the opportunity to choose to to walk and cycle to places. And again, regeneration, consolidation, social inclusion and housing, and as a range of new policies there in relation to, I suppose housing for a for a wider range of people within our communities or specific policy about older people about universal design and housing for people with disabilities. And then alongside that, we also have policies on what is I suppose a new development model that has emerged in the lifetime of this plan, which is build to rent and there were a locational criteria around that looking at areas uh I suppose requiring them to uh within areas of high employment and areas where there's significant transportation connections. And there was a presumption against very large scale residential developments to be BTR because it will create an unsustainable community. Um and we've also been looking at ensuring that the design of the apartments that are built are both be= you know that they aren't all just built to one typology, that they're built to the built to sell standard as well, so that in the long term, the community has the ability to provide a a quality mix um and range of apartments. Um because all apartments obviously are gonna be around for 100 years plus, you know, so I mean, it's looking at that long term uh issue of how we deliver regeneration and then discouraging BTR accommodation of less than 100 units because they don't have the capacity to provide and support the uh range of community facilities that are required under the the guidelines, City economy and retail um [breath in] I suppose just say that everything that we've written in the plan complies with the [anon_PR25] for [anon_PL44] and the strategic employment areas that are outlined in that. And again, this ties back into the climate change element supporting the key economic sectors are there um is a section on tourism accommodation. Um I suppose recognizing the importance of tourism to the city, but also how we need to balance some of the particular pressure points that have emerged during the lifetime of this plan particularly hotel accommodation. And then there are criteria around that um data centers are covered. Um we have I suppose we've we use the banner a report that we commissioned um that examines a whole retail issue that has input it into how the policies in retail have been formed. So we've um it's looking at diversifying the city center and as as was mentioned in the meeting, do= you know, encouraging people to come into the city for a wide range of reasons and of which retail will benefit from so the, I suppose, pushing forward the cultural issues um and the events and and, you know, improvements to public realm all of which encourage a greater footfall and and longer stay within the city center. [breath in] Um And then recategorisation of some of the category one and two streets So there are a kind of um detailed changes to the text to it to take on board some of the issues that came through in the study. And then we have a new chapter chapter 12. On culture, um again, I suppose to I suppose to recognize this was a big issue that came out in the submissions, and we wanted to reflect that in the text. So we have um policies on a a range of cultural quarters uh in across the city, including [anon_PL45], and there's a whole range of them there, there's one in [anon_PL46] So it's just to give you a selection of different ones to have a look at uh key cultural activities. Uh looking at po= policy regarding the protection of venues for space, uh for music, dance rehearsal, requiring the provision of cultural facilities of major reach generation and support for an Irish language quarter and the use of the Irish language and support for the traditional arts uh zoning and develop management, we've done a comprehensive review of the zoning map. So there's been quite a number of changes I suppose the biggest ones. I mean, there's a lot of change, which is just I suppose recognizing what's been built out and allowing it to evolve into a standard zoning, um there has been a change a significant change to what is called the south 15. So there's clear criteria around when residential development be considered, it's a lot more uh stricter than it was previous, and there was a much greater emphasis on the importance of of protecting uh south 15 lands for community infrastructure, recognizing that the population increase in the city is going to create demand for greater community infrastructure, particularly within the school sector. So it's ensuring that when we meet our 2040 fingers that we have the accommodation and the space to provide the schools that are needed to support that population increase. As I mentioned, as they attend the mixed use philosophy is trying to expand that and ensure that where people live and where they work, and where they engage in leisure activities, and, uh and other activities that there are within their doorstep. The employment zone is a lot more focused as an outcome of the study that was done and during the lifetime of the last plan. And we've updated a range of development standards. And we've put in new guidance around dual aspect and sunlight and daylight to ensure that the quality that we all expect of apartments is there and delivered. So that's just a list of the uh regeneration areas across the city. Um we've added a couple of new ones [anon_PL46] which is kind of more of a historic one rather than say major scale regeneration, but I suppose it's recognizing the really important role of that historic area, particularly with city walls. And I suppose the the proactive approach [anon_INST86] is taking with that area in partnership with the [anon_INST87] and I can't remember off the top of me head now what other ones are there. But we've we've updated all of the others in line with um work that's been done during the lifetime of the current plan. And I suppose just in summary, just to say what's particularly interesting yourselves is a more focused approach to the industrial zoning and greater use of mixed use regeneration zoning within the plan to try and ensure that diversity with as as areas regeneration evolve, stronger emphasis on the city center as a destination and trying to support this whole concept of multi use trips into the city center to and to, you know, support the food and beverage sector and the cultural sector in in in driving that and the importance of making the city an attractive place to work and to seeking to preserve and regenerate spaces within the city for enterprise the expansion of [anon_PL47] into the new [anon_PL47] STZ which will provide I suppose significant floorplace for uh for FDI particularly and uh and enterprise uh within the [anon_PL47] area. So it's building on its successes there and expanding the role of urban villages and places of employment recognizing what we've learned from COVID and from uh the submissions that we've received so oops, sorry. Uh that's the website, all of the information um regarding [anon_PR18] including some of the background papers um are there on that um there's also slots for people who can book if they want to talk to somebody if they're looking for advice. Um and the closing date is Valentine's Day, handy date to remember um mentally in your head. And if you've any questions on that, sorry for that speedy flight through but I know you're under pressure so so [anon_$040] Terrific, thanks so much. So clear and and comprehensive. So I'll go to councillor [anon_$037] councillor [anon_$041] and then councillor [anon_$042] and if any other hands come up in the interim, but [anon_$040] you might come back after those three speakers. Um and then we'll go to councillor [anon_$031] councillor [anon_$037]. Um uh chair, thank you very much. And thank you particularly to uh uh [anon_$040] uh for her work, it's always very reassuring to see um uh [anon_$040] being involved in work uh from the planning department, she's a very experienced um uh senior planner. And uh she's always anything she's done for the [anon_INST86] has always been well done. So I want to acknowledge that and say thank you very much [anon_$040] Um uh they're just one or two questions I'd like to to ask just in making a statement just on that as well. I think it's extremely important today that we acknowledge and appreciate the um uh statement in the [anon_INST88] today, um in relation to us, [anon_INST89], and [anon_FN85] [anon_SN24] our city planner uh has done in relation to um um uh blocks that uh you know, the percentage of um um larger apartments uh that you can only have a certain number of uh uh build to and uh bedsitters and I think that is something that is very, very constructive and very, very welcome. Um and I'd like to even propose that we might uh agree, um a vote of thanks to both of them that we might send on if people agree with me on that. I'd like to ask a question, I have to confess now this question, I suppose really, the question should be more strictly in relation to the economic paper, but I'll be very quick um that uh in the adaptation for older people you mention about disabled, but we're talking about adaptation in houses for older people, whether it's, you know, having everything downstairs and letting upstairs or whatever, um which maximizes the use of housing and keeps people uh in their homes and so forth. And we're having a presentation on that at our next um age friendly meeting next week, if anybody's interested in that, and the next couple of weeks that's coming on, which I think could be very um useful for us to know about. And can I just say that I am delighted about the typing up with the Z 15 and the community the 25% community allowance, I mean, there have been so many opportunities lost. Uh and that's all very welcome. So, it's in in , I'm saying thanks very much to the [anon_INST92] chair. Thanks. Thanks councillor [anon_$037] Uh easy one there to get back to [anon_$040] I'll go to councillor [anon_$041] first and then councillor [anon_$042] Uh thanks, [anon_$040] um [anon_$040] just one of the things I've noticed that I've gone through a bit of the uh documents online, when I know it's not um within the scope of [anon_INST86] one of the things I was concerned with was a detail in relation to the transport needs. I just don't think when you take into consideration the development of areas and certainly in my own area, the biggest lack of resources is transport it wouldn't be as big an issue at the moment in my area if there was transport and proper infrastructure such as schools, etc. Um how are we addressing the transport needs in relation to developing these large areas, especially um the ones that you've got on the list, um ones in my own area, but I do notice that on another list you have [anon_PL48] which has had 8000 units across the two council areas and it's not on the main list which I just find a little concerning. And secondly in relation to areas where there's large developments and they're crossing uh border lines be= between different councils such as [anon_PL49] where um it's it would have um impact in relation to [anon_PL50] is the liaisons with the other county councils to assure that we're uh linking up with each other to ensure that there's proper development across the two county councils? Thank you. Thanks Councillor [anon_$041] Thanks very much uh cathaoirleach agus go raibh maith agut [anon_$040] as ocht an ![unclear]! um traithnona [anon_$040] Is there is there an item in chapter well, I presume chapter five or chapter three, explaining or defining what the 15 Minute city is. Um it's it's, it's, it's, I suppose it's on a separate issue, then it's the if there is, can you just tell me where it is? If there isn't? Can you? Can you explain it? Um or show me where I can read it um to help me with my submissions. Um it goes without saying that I think all of us bar none on the [anon_PL86] uh is not in favor of the build to rent that seems to be taking over. Uh certainly we've a huge amount of it in the [anon_PL51] and in particular, uh in in um on [anon_PL52] And uh there's there's an application for like a really small build to rent unit across the road from me here on [anon_PL53] in [anon_PL54] which was a really shocking um um proposal, and I'm hoping that [anon_INST94] will refuse it. But um in terms of uh what you said there in relation to uh uh what we're proposing in our draft, the numbers under the figure of 100 will be discouraged because of you gave a short um reason for that. I wonder, can you give me that just uh verbally again, what is the reason for it? I know that there, there's a spec is really poor, uh in terms of of of the build to rent when you compare it to non build to rent. And then finally, um is is is it a case that um government regulations, like what happened in 2018, when our [anon_PR26] was thrown out the window, uh when it came to height and density? uh will will will it be the case that if and when we approve our [anon_PR26] to include the discouragement of the build to rent schemes, uh will it be the case that government rules could override that again? thanks very much, [anon_$040] Thanks. Thanks councillor {anon_$042] [anon_$040]. Let you in there for those three questions. Okay and um thanks to councillor [anon_$037] for her praise I have to say I didn't write it on my own. So um there's a a large team, uh not that large, but a very dedicated team that are put a huge amount of work into this plan. And uh I don't want to take credit on me own uh We do recognize your guiding hand, [anon_$040] Thanks. [laugh] Thanks, a million um just I suppose just um in relation to the percentage. I mean, yeah, that's something that I suppose we've been clear about. And that we've been upfront as to our reasons, and the importance of sustainable development for the city, in relation to BTR, any pendulum swing to one particular housing model. And delivering only that, and that's the current trend we have is not a sustainable form. So we are looking, we are not, and I suppose there's been a little bit of misrepresentation of the information in the press. Um council has no uh legal rights, nor is it seeking to to specify who can buy units, it's just requiring that the design and the forum as a development is is is more flexible, and will stand the test of time. So that when, um yes, obviously, if they're built to to built to sell standard, they can be bought by one individual uh fund and unless, um but in 20 years time, or whenever they you know, that housing stock will at least be suitable to evolve into a long term housing model. And that's what we're seeking to achieve. Um as regards the the question as regards, older people, um yes, there is an objective, I can't put my finger on it right now. But there is a specific objective, we had a sorry that's very noisy outside here. And there's, we had discussions with our architect team about that whole concept of House of kind of splitting houses and allowing, say, the top half and how the whole I think I've forgotten the phrase, there was a name on it abhaile, wasn't it, that's what the original model was called. And we have policies in to support that and to recognize how uh well I suppose how beneficial it is within the community, both in keeping people at home and giving them choice and giving them an alternative income and in providing, you know, a denser form of use of an existing stock that we have, I mean, it ticks all the boxes from a sustainable planning point of view. So there is a specific paragraph and a policy to support that in the plan. If um I know there are other challenges outside of planning but planning, uh is clearly in support of it. So um in relation to councillor [anon_$041] question on transport, I mean, absolutely. I mean, transport and land use are hand in glove with each other. Um and we have and it's I suppose, a benefit and a challenge that we have is that the [anon_INST95] strategy is currently under preparation and they have published their draft at the same time as our draft is is on is on display and [anon_INST86] has made clear to the [anon_INST95] that we seek that there is significant investment made in [anon_PL42] during the lifetime of their strategy in relation to public transport both in relation to [anon_PR27] um which is a key project will hopefully deliver during the lifetime of plan, but also some of the major uh projects um the light rail and heavy rail, whether it's um upgrading the DART services, um or expanding Luas to [anon_PL55] or on all of these projects that we want to see significant progress made. Um we're also uh I suppose, working very, very closely with the [anon_INST95] as regards delivering a significant investmentsduring the lifespan, of the plan on cycling infrastructure and improvements to public realm to make it much easier for people to get around, and to build those connections that are needed to give people the quick route to different places across the city um and to offer them that alternative. And obviously, that doesn't suit everybody. So we're looking at all of those issues. And we are continually working with the [anon_INST95] And I suppose that in some ways answers the second question, because the [anon_INST95] strategy is designed to be across [anon_PL42], it doesn't look at I suppose it doesn't look at [anon_PL42] with the council boundaries on it. It does studies along corridors and when you read each, you can see how they've kind of done a big study on the [anon_PL56] corridor, particularly, which is one that we asked them at their pre draft stage to have a specific and very focused look at because we were very conscious of the pressures that are coming on certain particular corridors. With regards to the scale of development that's been granted. So we've we did ask them to do a very detailed review of the [anon_PL56] corridor as well as looking obviously a fingers as well and a few others. So, so, I suppose the [anon_INST95] ourselves um and the [anon_INST96] as a group would meet to discuss issues as regards how cross boundary issues are working and also how how we work together to deliver the the [anon_PR28] because it is it is inherent in all of the bodies involved in that to deliver that and I suppose our [anon_PR26] as part of that the [anon_INST95] strategy as part of that, but when also, I suppose just to reassure you, when we do get into the nitty gritty of dealing with very specific local plans, we do absolutely as a courtesy and as a as a key piece of ensuring that these plans are deliverable, we would engage in discussions with both their planning and their engineering teams um as regards a whole range of issues both transport drainage biodiversity and getting the green corridors right, um and and all that kind of movement and how it would work. So it is an in a key part of of preparing that plan. So it is suppose at a strategic level and and at a local level, we will work very closely with our sister authorities and continue that conversation. And and if there are issues to be raised they can be brought up and resolved at the um at the regional level. Um Display uh explain 15 Minute city, I'm sure it's in there I'll have to email you I can't remember off the top my head exactly where I'll come back to you on that. Um and I suppose um just the whole issue of the under 100 I suppose one of the things that the guidelines say about um BTR is that you're allowed, the developers are allowed to reduce the amount of storage space, um private amenity space, um and, you know, ge= oth= all the spa= was and the overall standard of the and on the basis that they provide quality communal space. So that could be like kind of a, you know, a a large room where people could maybe work from because they wouldn't have the space maybe to have an office in their in their apartment, um or places where they could have like, you know, family events. providing those type of spaces, obviously, cost money and they obviously cost money in the long term to run and to manage successfully. So if you have a very small management company, they are not going to be big enough to support the running and the management and the continuous maintenance of a range of quality communal spaces. And that is the reason why we don't support smaller spaces. The same applies to student accommodation, when they're built at a very small standard, they don't work very well they don't meet the needs of the individuals. And it it does, it's no point in building BTR when it's that small a scheme, it's much better that they're built as private apartments with the correct standard of facilities with the correct amount of private open space, because they'll never support a high range of communal open space with the management fees that they're going to collect. So that's basically in a nutshell, why why we don't support that, I suppose that's, I suppose bringing to bear the experience of development management over the number of years to see where where issues have arisen. And then in relation to government guidelines, and will they override that I suppose that's, that's in at the moment everything that we have written and the way we have written it as far as uh I suppose in our professional opinion is is that we have not breached any government guidelines, we have written it to achieve the goals that we wish to seek that you as a council have presented to us and the the agenda that you want this [anon_PR26] to drive the whole issue of sustainable city. Um and we have written them. Um okay we sail close the wind on some of the issues as regards to the standards, but we aspire, but we're 100% of the view that everything that we have written is in compliance with the guidelines and uh we will defend it on that basis. So uh but um I you know, we remain to be to see what the response of the [anon_INST97] will be in relation to the draft plan and we will take their advice when we get to that so it is I suppose we we we will argue the site so if there's any other further questions, and if I've missed anything, apologies, come back to there is yeah, I'm going to bring in another three speakers now [anon_$040], which is given that these are very technical questions and obviously very important khangsar Councillor [anon_$037] Councillor [anon_$041] Councillor [anon_$042] do you want to come back in on anything? Councillor [anon_$042] Yeah, just to pick up on the last uh chair, the last thing that [anon_$040] mentioned there in terms of the reasons behind the discouragement of the under 100 Because of experience of [anon_INST93] in relation to management, uh funds, etc, not being able to support those communal facilities going forward. Is that in compliance then with the regulation that's set out around BTR by government? BTR is silent the the guidelines are silent on that issue I assume so from that point of view, they haven't directed us not to say so. So we're going to, we've put that in, because it's based on the the research and the knowledge that we have, anyway. Yeah. Thank you very much go raibh maith agut Okay, um councillor [anon_$032] and [anon_$043] uh councillor [anon_$032] yeah, uh thank you, [anon_$040] for for the presentation. And and um you got you got a lot in very quickly. Um and I know we we we've had had an opportunity um to to submit and we will have again, um I suppose, I just wanted to ask about, you mentioned the Zed 15. And the changes in that, but um the Zed 12, I suppose I wanted to see what the differences now is, is the Zed 12 basically effectively what the Zed 15 was, except you need to put some sort of a master plan in to show where the 20% um you know, green space are being kept. So really, what what what is the, I suppose what is the difference in the tween the Zed 12 and what was the Zed 15? Um and just to sort of explain that a a bitclearer, and um the strategic development zones, I mean, they still need to be agreed with in terms of, of of government, and we've had difficulties with those before, we've had all the consultation, and we've put in great plans, and then found ourselves in court, uh [anon_INST86] so how can we make sure that that doesn't happen, really, that, you know, um there's no sort of, you know, I suppose, you know, time wasting and money wasting that ends up in the court. And I think the most important thing he said was about the mix, you know, the 15 minutes city having that mix? And how do we make sure and ensure that we have because of planning applications come in? Obviously, the development plan has a plan and a vision for the whole of the city and areas, but planning applications come in different landowners own different parcels of land, and they come in piecemeal, how can we manage because particularly with local area plans, there seem to be a long time in the making, you know, what I mean, you've got lists of local area plans. I mean, you know, you don't seem to don't have the resources to bring those in, it'd be ideal if we did have local area plans for everywhere. So we could, then as applications came in, we can say, how do they fit into the jigsaw? And can we influence them to make sure that they all come up with the mix that we want? Um so I suppose I just wanted to ask, How can we be assured of that? Because he can say, Alright, maybe there's an over proliferation of hotels, and yet you see that still getting planning permission, you go, Well, why did that happen? If you're saying there's an over proliferation of hotels in a particular area? So it's just, you know, I suppose I'm conscious of the mix would be ideal. But how do we how do we achieve that? Thanks. Thanks, [anon_$043]. Yeah, no, I just want to look a bit at the industrial side and employment side. Um a lot of the industry that we have dotted particularly around the fringes of the city, and indeed quite bits in in this area, as well, are quite old and underutilized. Um you know, you you look at the kind of [anon_INST108] and the other parks on the south side of the city. Um indeed, some of the retail parks that we have, which have just one single uh usage. Um and that seems to me to be a bit of a waste of space. Um how are we going to plan for a future economic development and bring employment into local areas, I mean local areas, we used to be vibrant with kind of employment. Uh at the moment, it's about people moving and living in one place and moving into another, which is not exactly what we want to do and planning and it's probably the more much more difficult to do in in the current framework. Um I know you know that there is um resistance in some of the uh uh plans that we have for for changing some of the uh council lands um [breath in] from industrial to kind of residential. Is there a way of kind of mixing that? Or are we taking some of the industrial that we have and putting it completely somewhere else? I I I don't get that sense inside the [anon_PR26]. Thanks, [anon_$044] Yeah, thanks, chair. And just to pick up obviously on ![unclear]! point, I mean, separately, we'll we'll we'll make some comments about build to rent but there mighn't be the same as welcome around this table as, as others would be um I think the issue for us is to to make sure that the one of the recognitions is that to look at [anon_PL44] as its whole, and beyond just the the [anon_INST86a] area band beyond the four [anon_INST109], but across the the wider [anon_PL44] region, and we made the same point to the [anon_INST95] that they all these plans need to be aligned. And one of the other issues that we have is right now is not only the census has been delayed, the evidence base and the complete deal over the last two years for the for for what's going to happen, particularly on the commercial mix within the city center needs to be be assessed and how we're going to build that in over the next two or three years. Because whether or not it's [anon_FN86] a a a and the finance team, looking at the rates and the the shifting use in in in the city centre core, particularly around the retail, that a lot of those premises themselves are easy to be converted until the uses because they the they need more the the um sustainability requirements. And you know, to bring them up to scratch, the issue that I have is have they looking at the bolted on sort of support, whether or not it's around promoting, you know, mixed use in terms of food and ret= you know retail, are those guidelines sufficiently flexible enough to allow a faster um transition to a a better commercial mix over the next year or two to to to um clamp down on vacancies. Um and also separately with the the nighttime economy, you know, taskforce report, and obviously the balance around preserving the cultural and nightlife activities. But how do you make sure that there's the right mix between those that inherited contestability now what we want to do about having more people living within the urban city center, how to make sure that there is that balance from the noise perspective, and we get that vibrancy right um but that's accessible to all. Thank you. Thanks, uh [anon_$040] I wonder can I come in there as well, just before you go to those three questions. Um can I just agree with uh everything Councillor [anon_$037] really said at the outset and particularly in respect the [anon_INST89]'s role, in this I heard her on [anon_INST106] there three o'clock just before [breath in] we started this meeting, talking about the 40,000 housing units. And I think what she's done effectively, is given the [anon_PR26] the PR, that is needed. I mean that the last time you were here, [anon_$040] we had a conversation about how it would be difficult to assess the public's view and to engage in the public consultation process because we were online. But I think she has really helped us in um bridging that that divide that's happened online. So I really want to commend the [anon_INST89] for her role in PR around this um can I just ask two questions [anon_$040] um to add to to the previous three, the build to rent, for example, in my area, um only 10% 68 houses out of over 700 um can be can be purchased. [breath in] A lot of the public objection to that was on the basis that there was no school um is it when when does the decision around the school happen? I know that's a question for, you know, planners for beginners. But the public are objecting on the basis that there's no access to schools. And yet you can't build any development if that argument was always successful. So when is that moment? Um if you'd like to lock that question around schools, and just Can I ask as well, Councillor [anon_$042] question in respect of there being less than 100 units. And the management funds therefore can't support we'll say communal working areas um the decision that [anon_INST86a] has taken uh to maybe negate that responsibility to provide those communal work areas. It's not maybe supported by the regulations, because it's silent on it. How does that fit with the [anon_PR29] then, which is really trying to progress the rights of of tenants to have those kinds of communal spaces? Um thanks for that, you might come back to those four questions. Cheers. Thanks. So great questions. We could be here all night talking about some of these things there's so much ground to cover um in in relation to the um Zed 12 versus uh Zed 15. And what's different, um I suppose one of the big key differences um this time around for Zed 12, compared to the last plan is that we've increased the open space provision to 25%. So it's a larger cut um what uh Zed 12 I suppose was there in the last plan but it was a sma= it was a it's a number of sites, and I suppose what zed 12 does is it looks at former institutional lands that are not going to be needed for community services and allows them to come forward for residential development and significant open space. And um we've done a review of all of the zed 12s that are in the plan, and we've done a review of the zed 15 lands both in relation to their future use and those that maybe are not being used for something that's critical within the document and that's kind of where the difference between the two lies um and I I suppose and and and obviously, those all those are up for debate. And particularly, um we'll be interested to see how the owners what submissions they make in relation to them um in relation to [anon_INST110]s, how do we make sure we don't end up in court? Um I don't think there's any easy answer to that umI have to be honest um we have the [anon_INST110]s that we have and we are implementing them. And we have implemented the three that we have very successfully with obviously, we wait to see how the new act comes out with these uh new [anon_INST111]s and what they will mean for the [anon_PR26] but um I suppose the decision to create a new [anon_INST110] is one made by cabinet. So um I suppose we we will look at that issue and how it rolls out. But uh from [anon_INST86]'s perspective, we continue to work closely with uh the [anon_INST107] and also ourselves as as a development agency and continuing to to work with everybody involved to deliver the [anon_INST110]s um as much as they were granted by [anon_INST94] um [breath in] as regards the mix and the uh delivery of the 15 minutes city, um how we achieve that, I suppose it one is, I suppose, applying the whole mixed use zoning to a greater extent than previously in the [anon_PR26]s and looking at I suppose opportunity sites like the likes of suppose former industrial lands, and when they are changed to a regeneration zoning that that regeneration, zoning specifically requires a certain quantum to be commercial now commercial is a very broad church, it can be a hotel, it can be uh an office block, it can be uh it it can be somewhere where you get your car fixed. Um but it it it also can be all those other uses that often turn up in industrial estates that need to find a home within communities, which is like you your dance space where your kids go to do ballet and hip hop, you know, where people go and book different classes where, where maybe there's, you know, um I suppose, where large, large scale retail, where like the kind of the big box stuff that uh that the city needs to incorporate, but to incorporate it within a much greater mixed use developed all of these uses provide a range of different types of employment to people within the city. And I think that's one of the challenges the city needs to think about in the wider issue of employment is what is employment, what is employment in the community? Um I suppose the very traditional 1970s model has shifted, and how what are we replacing it with, and what we're replacing it with is, I suppose the provision of new enterprise hubs, both publicly I suppose promoted and those that are delivered by the private sector, um providing, I suppose a a range of back office opportunities for businesses that maybe don't need to have all their staff or don't have other staff part time. And it might suit them to be in some of these regeneration areas where they're on a good public transport route, and providing the range of service employment jobs in in the community, all of which help build out uh a vibrancy on a day to day basis within uh uh uh within the suburbs and within the rural villages. So or the urban villages that we have, um and I suppose getting that mix, particularly regeneration, what we have in it is a requirement that there's a master plan, done for, for any large area by the developer, they have to set out clearly in their planning application in a statutory process, how they're going to deliver that mix and that binds them in. And that's, I suppose, something that we've learned from doing the [anon_INST110]s, and we're incorporated into policy to try and apply that approach on a much wider basis across the city. And particularly for the very large regeneration areas where we're going to have statutory plans the likes of [anon_PL57] um industrial es= like [anon_PL58] in [anon_PL57], where we've identified as as needing a statutory plan and the likes of [anon_PL59] there will be a very again, the [anon_INST112] or [anon_INST110] or whatever it is that's used, as a statutory tool will tie in that. But what we'd like to do is particularly in the Zed, 10 Zed 14 is to tie it down, very specifically to a percentage mix. Um and I think that's something that uh we hope to see will will change a little bit in in a positive way, how we deliver a mixed use approach within the city. So I think I hope that's answering the two types of questions also retail we we're well we don't don't have as many retail parks, but what we're hoping to promote and through the zoning policy as well, that the idea of [breath in] people don't you know, people how people use kind of large retail parks is changing with the way retail is working, it's a lot more click and collect or or or view and and and order to deliver. And so I suppose the way retail space is used is going to change in this plan. So what we're looking at is ensuring that we get the vibrancy on the ground floor that you've got the uses that need that big spaces to show showcase large, large items. Um but then you can cater for for for high quality residential above that that will provide kind of a sense of of uh urban enclosure and to get away from kind of windswept isolated places that a lot of these retail places can look like. Um so I hope I've answered some of that um correct um just I suppose looking at the whole region as a whole and I suppose this is part of the discussion about what what is is is the the [anon_PR30] for [anon_PL44] and how it deals with particularly employment and looking at space and looking at the space across the city in a sustainable way and what makes sense from a land use point of view and I suppose we'd be very conscious in that particularly like in the likes of the Zed 6 study that were done that we were looking at where if those sort of large, low employment, high space uses like logistics, where do they go when they're displaced? How do we ensure that when they do move, they don't move so far from the community that they're that they're close to that they cause, you know, problems for peo= the local employment pool that they are drawing from, so say, the likes of [anon_PL60] that there is clearly opportunities across the border and [anon_INST113] very, very close, to the area so still within a reasonable and easy commuting distance for the employee, people employees in that area, if they move, and moving to that location, they're moving to a location that will never be suitable for housing. So underneath the airport runways, and around that whole area of just north of [anon_PL42] there is a I suppose capacity for the types of logistic uses that bring a lot of HGVs that bring a lot of uh disruption or maybe, uh you know, types of uses that aren't suitable in an intense urban area. And they can cater for that in an area that will never have significant residential pressure. And it makes sense for them to be there. Because they're beside the airport there beside the entrance to the [anon_PL61] Um and it makes you know, it's much better and more sustainable use of land across across the wider [anon_PL44] area. And that's something that ourselves and [anon_INST31] are also very much engaged with as a topic of discussion and looking at how we deal with that as an approach for the whole [anon_PL59] area as well, because again, there's a huge range of uses there, some of which will work really well in a regeneration setting, and some of which may need to move. And it's how those things are balanced. So but that's a very long horizon, how that's managed out. And some of that is individual decisions by individual companies, but we will work with them to try and support addressing that issue and recognizing that there does need to be certain locations, particularly on the [anon_PL62] that are never suitable for housing, that are much more optimal from a landlord use point of view, um as regards the um uh yeah, I mean, I agree, I mean, we'd all love to have the census out, you know, but, um but we have, I suppose, undertaken a number of different bits of research to try and feed into the plan and to update it. And obviously, you know, if, um if we get any more updated information or data as the plan moves on, um we will try and incorporate it into it. As regards flexibility, food and beverage, we have, as I mentioned, we've updated category one category two streets with sets the percentages of those. And so we we're shifting some of that to recognize that retail is changing, and that we need to support it by providing a wider range of mix of uses. So I suppose the the plan will come into place at the end of of this year. So those policies, that's the timeline that we have to work with, um under the acts, so there is no, I suppose, speeding that up at the moment, the plan is done when it's done. And then it will come into play six weeks later, um which will be just right at the end of the year. Um the nighttime economy. Um we've got a section on it in the culture section, and we tie it into the the economic chapter as well. And I suppose the whole issue of how you deal with space noise, um we've put in a policy around that and I suppose what we're looking at is kind of the clustering of certain type of very of nighttime noisy events onto key main streets, and that they don't spread into the back streets into the more quieter residential streets, so that you do have a situation where someone could walk out of a nightclub and walk down the road, maybe 10 minutes, and they're in a very, very quiet space, because the noise is contained onto the busy streets that are less suitable for kind of for residential uses. Um uh and would have, let's say a lot of cars and a lot of bosses, a lot of, you know, a lot of movement on them, and that they are a better location. It also works better from, I suppose a management of movement um after uh closing time and also for the guards as well. So there is that's the policy we put in, and we welcome comments on it. I mean, it's you know, it's a new policy, and we'd be very keen to hear those who are involved in it and what views they would have as to what we've put in as to how it'd be rolled out. But it is very clear that particularly as well say if apartments are being built adjoining existing commercial uses that operate late that they are required to put in higher levels of noise, insulation and sound because it's it's important that those you know, that uses aren't put under pressure to close when they were there first, essentially, you know, so it's kind of getting that balance right in the plan uh so again, it's a new section of the plan, and we'd be very keen to hear from those involved in the sector have to say in it in relation to schools and how decisions made. I mean, I suppose schools planning in a city context is wildly different to what you'd be doing in [anon_PL63] or [anon_INST113] you know, where there's large areas of green field and, you know, the department turns around and says, Oh, yeah, we'll take five acres, you know. Um so if I suppose within the city context, we have a very finite resource of community and school space. Working with the department, it's a lot more about how we uh reuse the space that that the schools have, whether it's expansion, um uh you know, recognizing certain, you know, I suppose, ensuring that they have the space to expand and that they can change as, as the as the population of an area changes, and looking at what assets they have. So they will do a very detailed study of what the existing schools capacity is and how that can be managed. And also, I suppose, an examination of the diversity of the schools in the area to see how how they can cater for uh demand. any developer who lodges a planning application for units above 500 is required to go to the department directly and discuss their needs within within before they launch a planning application. So there is, say, if you're building a very large scheme you'd have to get clearance in the department or in advance to say that they don't want a site from you to deal with the amount of population demand. So the department have their own kind of number crunching, and they will take a lot of metadata like um uh the children's allowance geodirect, you know, georeference children's allowance to see where preschool children are and where the concentrations and where the hot spots are. So they do, I suppose very in depth analysis of where demand is growing, to ensure that the primary school and secondary school sector is planned to to to address that. So I suppose they are constantly looking at how that is changing. And I suppose that there's there's no simple answer on that one, you know, that way, it is very much down to the individual context of the place in question. Um and I suppose there's no, uh there's no simple model that will kind of set that out. So I suppose I'm not answering your question directly. No you are thank you yeah do me best, so um and just the the management um of less than 100 units. [breath in] I mean, I agree I I I to be honest, now, the relationship between that and the [anon_PR29] I wouldn't be it's not my area of expertise, I wouldn't be able to answer your straight on that. But it's just I suppose to recognize that BTR requires an additional volume of communal space above and beyond what you'd expect in the normal planning a norm, the planning of a normal apartment development. And that is compensation for the loss of private open space. So in providing all this additional open space, that's an additional cost. So it's not to say that what your standard apartment will do is, you know, is is, you know, is enough it's BTR has to be above and beyond. And that's it's the it's the cost of running the above and beyond that, we will be concerned about that, over a period of 10 15 years, that's such a space would end up being just like the storage room or something, you know, that way and it would not be maintained, and it would slip and people would end up living then in a more substandard development. So I hope I have answered all your questions. And if you if I haven't yet, feel free to contact me by email um over the next couple of days, or if you have any further questions anyway. It's no problem at all. I'll get back. Great. Thanks [anon_$040] uh [anon_$032] [anon_$043] [anon_$044] Do you want to come back on anything there? Um no I think that's comprehensive enough um= +Great. thanks and thanks= =I'm still slightly confused about the Zed 12 and the Zed15. And the differences but um= +but you'll can pick you can pick that up together yeah great okay, thanks. A million. [anon_$044] your hand is still up. Sorry, I just dropped it there. I I'll put in all the responses for the 14th isn't it? yeah Valentine's day the 14th Valentine's Day 4:30. Don't leave it to the last minute. Uh [anon_$044] while I have you there as well, thanks for coming back about the presentation that we mentioned on the last occasion, I know you're going to be joined by a colleague uh from [breath in] [anon_114] did I read that in an email? Um so we look forward to hearing what dates might work for for the two of you. Um okay, the next item [anon_$040] Thanks a million. And I certainly echo all the comments made by um Councillor [anon_$037] about your leadership. Thanks so much for joining us as well. It's a busy time. Um [tech noise] the next item then is the reports that were circulated in terms of our outcomes as an [anon_INST92] So they're in the reports back, uh [anon_PR32] and the [anon_PR33] the the outcomes. I'm going to move then to uh [anon_$045] if you're good to go there on the [anon_INST115] with an update [tech noise] Thanks, chair. Can everyone see that screen? Not yet, [anon_$045] Hold on sorry [tech noise] Yeah, thanks. [tech noise] Can you see it now? Thanks, [anon_$045] Yeah, you can see it now. Thanks a million. Sorry chair I I I might just um fly through the pages because I'm just conscious um that a couple of the members haven't had a chance to, uh I suppose uh have a look. Go through the report in detail. So I'll fly through have I about 10 minutes chair is it? Yes, definitely. Okay, thanks a million. So look, thanks. Thanks a million um chair and members. This is an update um from the last report in November with regards the progress of establishing the EU uh strategy and the support office so just in the context of of the office itself. We continue to develop and implement the the [anon_PR34] that was adopted by the members. Um we also have developed uh you know the program and developments for the last quarter and for 2022. And we've we've quite a lot of detail in appendices at the end of the report, but we've continued to analyze and showcase the [anon_INST93]'s involvement in EU projects and programs we're developing uh the EU network connections we're focusing on European funding program opportunities. And further developing of the office, just in relation to [anon_INST86] 2021 Project involvement and success. There are a number of projects there that are highlighted with some information that were successful. I'm not going to go into them uh in much detail because uh most of the smart city stuff is included in the management reports later on uh in the meeting with much more detail, but it just shows you [anon_PL44] is, is actually doing quite well. The next part of the report there is uh related to the European networks and particularly the office of the [anon_INST89] and what the [anon_INST89]'s office has been engaged with um over the past couple of months or so. So there's information there with regards with engagement with [anon_PL64], with [anon_PL65] and with [anon_PL66] The uh Euro cities updates there in relation to the um the [anon_INST35], the [anon_INST89] contributed uh to the program um on the [anon_PL36] in in November, and also participated in the [anon_EV18] in December, so there's quite a lot of of political engagement there with the [anon_INST116] just with regards to the programs themselves. Um we are examining opportunities for the [anon_INST93] in relation to the various EU funding programs. And we've listed out the actual programs there themselves but but not limited to just those programs as such. [breath in] um then it with regards to open calls for the European program funding applications, we have um developed the shedule of open calls for European funding applications. It is collated uh makes reference to the programs and and the dates for 2022 for application. And it is uh uh the information is outlined uh in appendices one at the at the end of this report we'll also continue to monitor the open calls and communicate with all our colleagues uh in the [anon_INST93] updating them on any calls that may be of interest to to those departments. Um again, with regards to program events, seminars and workshop, we've developed the shedule events and seminars and workshops related to the various programs. And it's also um it's also um included in appendices one at the end of the report there and that should support uh the [anon_INST93] in training and upskilling for open calls into the future. Um just an update the uh for the expert panel um to um I suppose provide us with that with that, uh I suppose additional expertise that's required both for the office the organization and the members if required. So the tender brief has been developed to progress through procurement via via e-tenders. And um that uh tender is being currently being assessed by our uh procurement section and it is anticipated that we will publish the tender and e-tenders in the next 10 days. That will be the plan with the with the framework being in place um as early as possible, hopefully q2 2022. Just in relation to the support office strategy development, [breath in] the [anon_INST117] uh we continue to work, uh meet on a weekly basis uh and engage with regards to further developing the Eur= the the strategy and the support office. You know, we we we'd have regular meetings with um [anon_INST118] and and the [anon_INST119] as well, uh to to keep uh uh close contact with what what's going on in the region and also in [anon_PL67] Our priorities today and include resource recruitment, uh tender brief development [breath in] to establish the framework as I've just mentioned there for European expertise, uh establish appropriate corporate governance procedures and protocols to operate the office and develop a strong communication strategy and events program in 22 and beyond. So our our strategic objectives, um you know, are there I'm not going to go through them there, but I I'm sure the members are are aware of them there. But the the seven of them are are outlined uh in detail in the report. So just just just to review the progress of the seven core deliverables um that we said we that we said we would uh work work on uh over the last uh number of months since the last meeting. We've continued um uh this in 21 and 22. Uh we have a work program uh for 2022. It is completed and again it's available to the members of of this [anon_INST91] Uh for information purposes and it's it's it's again listed at the at the end of the report. So what we said we would do, we would break up the core deliverables into into seven, seven objectives there. So we break down on the update of those um members are in relation to recruitment, which I know the members are are are keen that we we we move ahead as quickly as possible. So, we we we had some recruitment, as, as you were aware, and we filled two roles. Um already in the office, we submitted a business case to the department um for two additional roles one one being a a head of of the new office, uh we've we've got sanction from the department to fill the posts and and a recruitment drive will be undertaken to fill the remaining roles uh however, in the interim, um the management and development of the office will fall uh under I suppose my department and my my remit my remit. Um just regards to the CRM systems as such, we are continuously developing in both an internal uh and an external uh I suppose uh systems of, of of communications uh using SharePoint there's councillor po= portal and websites, just in the interim, the information uh will will be stored uh under the [anon_INST120] [breath in] um and that's where uh all the uh I suppose detail and dissemination will will will stay until we move ahead with with new portals. [breath in] I um from an engagement point of view, I'm I'm engaged with the um transformation uh office um on the office's digital requirements and the rollout of the citizens portal um I'm sure some of the members are aware of that. And it's we're we're we're quite keen to be involved and and and have the right platform to engage in that at at an early stage. And I'm also sitting of a member of the [anon_INST121] um and I'll also be looking to provide uh the digital requirements for the office uh to be at least um considered for inclusion and in the draft digital strategy which is which is under development at this point in time. Um so in the context of corporate corporate governance, where we will continue to develop procedures and protocols and practices um to implement the best practice, you know, within the office, we look they will update the members with regards to next report. Uh in the context of the strategic partnerships being developed in quarter, four of 21 and 22. Today, we've engaged um with with with the following the [anon_INST122] to [anon_INST123] the [anon_INST124], um [anon_INST125], the [anon_INST126], uh including the wheel, [anon_INST127] and the [anon_INST128]. [breath in] Our strategic partnerships will continue to be developed in 22 in line with our strategic strategic objectives. Just just just to make the point earlier on um I think [anon_$035] made as well, we will continue to align our strategic strategic objectives uh within the council. And we are cognizant of the fact that there is a review um required of the [anon_PR19] to be completed in 2022. That's a statutory requirement under the new guidelines, and also the development of the new [anon_PR19] for 23 will commence. So it is important, I think, uh for the office to be fully appraised and um be involved in the [anon_PR19] process. Moving forward, uh myself as the director of service will be directly involved anyway. Um but but we just wanted to mention that that is that is a strategic requirement uh for local authorities moving forward. And that's just the basis of of our alignment to the uh the different strategies and and the matrix is used to assess projects. On the comms side of the house. There we've been we've been moving ahead with a comms uh communication strategy and action plan for both internal and external communications. We have dev= we have developed a comms plan um just at the end of last year for implementation throughout 2022 to build awareness of the of the offices opportunities internally with staff members and showcase the success of of the [anon_INST93] and EU projects to date and the implamation implementation of the plan uh if if some of the members have got the, um I suppose the [anon_INST86] um communications document that took over from first post there was a very strong article in that there. Uh this last week there just highlighting highlighting what the office uh is about and what it's one is makeup is just regards to training and development. We're currently examining a framework with potential opportunities for training and development programs for all the stakeholders um with the [anon_INST129] um um at this point in time um and then capacity building training and development programs there. Uh with regards to the [anon_INST130] focus preparatory work, we'd like to support our colleagues in the [anon_INST93] and department and the open coming [anon_INST131] opportunities. And we we'd like to assist capacity building with supporting and funding a number [anon_INST130] capacity building um events and they're and they're listed there. Um so I'll just move on to the uh the framework. Again, we would anticipate that the framework will be advertised and E tenders in January, which will be really really good support out to the office, the members and the um [anon_INST93] departments. We have developed the shedule of up and coming EU program events and EU funding program workshops and seminars and they have been collated and we will continue to to develop this um in line with our strategic objectives uh in 2022. Just Just Just to summarize then the um the work program for 22 is completed and available to the members it is on the um uh appendices uh of the report here um and it outlines our strategic objectives in the coming year. Um it is anticipated that recruitment drive to fill the post of the head of the office will commence as as soon as possible um it has been possible for me to restructure some of the business units in quest department to allow me move some staff um to the office in the coming weeks to implement the program of work plan for 2022. And to keep momentum of the office going quarter 1 and quarter 2 I have amalgamated the office uh with international relations with the um responsibility uh and direction under [anon_FN87] [anon_SN25]. Um just at this point Chair, I'd just like to offer uh uh our wishes our best wishes to [anon_FN88] [anon_SN26] who has commenced her maternity leave, and we hope all goes well uh for [anon_FN88] and that she um she enjoys her maternity leave, and hopefully she'll be back to us whenever she comes back. Just want to acknowledge the work that [anon_FN88] has done as the interim head of the Office. Um so that that really the appendices there outlines in in a lot of detail, uh I suppose what I've just been discussing there in relation to uh information and calls etc, etc. And then at the bottom there is is is our work plan for the members to um consider thanks, chair I'll take take any questions. [tech noise] Terrific thanks, [anon_$045] Thanks for all the detail there. Um Councillor [anon_$037] and Councillor [anon_$037] Thank you very much, [anon_$045] for that very comprehensive report. And I'd like to join with others in wishing [anon_FN88] uh well in her um maternity leave, and I hope everything goes very well for her. And uh um she certainly has done a huge amount of work uh on this uh committee and uh the department. So I want to acknowledge that some of my questions are um in relation to uh working with other institutions. I couldn't see it there. But maybe I missed it. Um I think one of the things that we talked about in the past is the need to actually work with other institutions, and particularly academic institutions, uh where we could actually enhance and extend the value and the use of any programs that we're actually uh that we're going to engage in. And I'd like to know what's happening there. And whether there's any opportunity for members to engage in that as well, which I think would be very good. Um I smiled a little bit when I heard about the difficulty in getting agreement from the department for the various um uh positions uh that we need for the for um the EU office, uh considering that it was a new office that was up and running and functioning very well in my opinion, uh up until about what 2014 2015. So it just shows you don't lose what you have because it's very hard to get it back um to it was a tragedy that went at the time. Um now specific questions really is uh the first one I want to ask Is that you probably know what I'm want to ask about. Uh I have at every meeting and I proposed and it was agreed that we would look at uh looking at programs to uh with [anon_PL68] through the [anon_PR37] and the [anon_PR38] and [anon_PR39] And I was continuously told, this will all happen when we have. And we have our meetings with the [anon_PL69] [anon_INST132], well we have had a meeting, nothing has happened. And all of that is one and a half years ago. And we're still being told I I feel I'm being kind of said the road to by and by is leading to the house of never, because clearly, that's my experience. So I cannot understand the resistance uh after uh actually wanting to make connections with a city that is considered uh another in another jurisdiction, you need to have another jurisdiction to be able to get into reg programs, a city that speaks English that was so accessible, that we have so much in common with and I just do not understand and I wish somebody would explain to me why that is so difficult. I also want to remind you that we had a [anon_INST133] in the last European um um uh department has that all disappeared, because that was a very, very useful, um, this I when I was [anon_INST89] I set this up over 21 years ago, and it was in connection uh with the [anon_PL69] agreement because it said there should be a city of the isles and that was [anon_PL44], um [anon_PL69], um uh [anon_PL70] [anon_PL2], and I think [anon_PL71]. Um and that was actually a very, very useful Now granted, we use it in some ways for European funding, that wouldn't be as relevant today. But there are many, many other relevant things that would actually be very useful and I want to know where that has disappeared, to. So they're they're the kinds of things that uh I would like to uh know um what has happened to see now that I've got sorry, just see now city of the isles, uh the economic uh uh uh I suppose really the question then on the economic corridor when are we having another meeting? We had an enor= well, we had a meeting that really kind of amounted to nothing. Then we had a meeting in person, when was that November? Was it out in in [anon_PL55] or [anon_PL72] And I'm wondering when that was just kind of setting it up, no program or anything else. So you know, we haven't even got started to work on that. So I'd be very interested to know if anybody can tell me a little bit more about that as well. Please. Thank you. Thanks for letting me uh go on a bit sorry. I didn't mean to I apologize. I don't think you did it all Councillor. Thanks, Councillor [anon_$037] Councillor [anon_$032] and Councillor [anon_$037] and I'll get back to you then [anon_$045]. Councillor [anon_$032]. Yeah, I'm just um have thank you very much for the report. And um best of luck to [anon_FN88] on her maternity leave just the the um open uh call for the European um program funding applications. Um can we actually instead of compiling that, to see what's available, um and I suppose I think it might be useful for us to have a look at those um in advance. I mean, I asked um a question to the chief executive as to what funding we had got previously, and I got a report on it seemed to be you know, a lot of it seemed to be on education, and on putting together, you know, reports and working towards something. So I suppose I'd just like to know that we were actually getting the the follow on funding, like as if we were applying through the [anon_INST134] and we were, and you know, uh uh for enterprises, and we got our seed funding that we be able to get to the next stage of, you know, expanding that, you know, where do we follow through, if we get sort of funding on something like, um like, there was a sort of, there seems to be funding for various things like [anon_PR40], small, you know, amounts of funding and things like that, projects, but I just wonder where they go to from there, you know, do we then decide to go for the the bigger funding? And, like, Did we get any funding whatsoever, um on terms of resilience of cities in the face of climate uh change, because I I didn't see any. And I'm just conscious that [anon_PL44] is particularly, uh in need, of this funding, um because no matter what we do with the economics um of the city, if we find ourselves underwater, um you know, between the [anon_PL73] and the coast, um we are very vulnerable to that. And it's important that we do um access whatever funding that we can have um to be adapt to adapt um to, to um the risks of climate, climate change. Um so I'm just wondering how successful we've been on that. What are the timescales? Um I don't think we I don't know if we got any funding in the last um lot of funding up to to 2020. But, you know, are we applying have we made application I saw some really good applications previously. But I don't know if anything came from it. But I've been told that these things take a long time. So I'm just conscious that we get in early if they do take a long time. And I do hope we get those appointments soon so that we can progress this, but could we get a list of the possible funding applications? Um you know, that you have that once you've compiled them yourself. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, Thanks, Councillor [anon_$032] Councillor [anon_$036] Go raibh maith agut cathaoirleach agus go raibh maith agut an tuairis. Thanks for the report and clearly a lot of uh constructive work done. Um and uh well done on that. Uh I want to concur with uh Councillor [anon_$037] uh on the [anon_INST132] and the to explore whatever opportunities uh exist there in the context of the European office. [breath in] But also um the need for an update. Uh I would request that between now on our next [anon_INST91] that we would get an update uh on the [anon_INST132]. And that it be that the issue we then put on our uh agenda for the next [anon_INST91] please sinn é. Thanks, Councillor [anon_$036] [anon_$045] can you come back to those three before other speakers come in? Certainly chair um thanks, a million everybody. Um Councillor [anon_$037] Yeah, the um working with other institutions from academic academia. Um certainly the higher education institutions uh are and continue to be involved in in the horizon process. Uh I would love to see uh opportunities uh available for members engagements. Um uh moving forward with with with EU programs, I think that's that that would be great. Um my recollection in relation to the [anon_INST133] is is is probably like your own Councillor [anon_$037] I remember when you did set it up, I am aware that we we are still involved with the EU with an EU uh proposal with with [anon_PL29] um at at this point in time. Uh however, I'm I'm pretty sure that the um the [anon_INST133] itself uh hasn't met for quite a long time. [breath in] um there has been a number of sorry, just just in relation to the um the pro= the recruitment we did get the sanction from the department that didn't appear to be um any any any real issue there um and we just want to move ahead now and and and get get get those posts filled uh unfortunately we're in a queue with everybody uh with everybody trying to get I suppose their requirements for you know, housing and and and roads and engineering and water and stuff like that, but I am talking to HR with regards to to that. Just regards to the uh the [anon_INST132] um in the um later on in the agenda uh there's a report there from [anon_FN89 [anon_SN27] that um updates uh uh provides an update with regards to the meetings, the engagement the development of the [anon_PR41] um the I suppose putting [anon_INST132] uh structures on a footing where they can actually uh commence a process of uh engaging and uh making applications for funding. So that is in in in the business reports. Um uh further further on in the agenda if if, if my recollection is right and reading them there earlier on in the week. [breath in] um so we might we might I don't know whether he want to do that now chair talk about that or do want to just wait and and and and and um deal with that at that part of the agenda? Yeah, we can do that. Thanks yeah um um that's fine. And um ju= just with regards to the um the open calls. I'll just if I can share if I can share my screen. [tech noice] Can everybody see that? Yes [anon_$045] Yeah. Ju= ju= ju= just um Councillor [anon_$032] just I just made I I I wasn't um clear, but there's a huge amount of information there, just in the appendices they go on forever. But that so thus far Councillor they they they they're the calls we're aware of and what we do is we we collate all this information. And we um I suppose distribute the information to the relevant departments that would be interested in pursuing um calls of this nature. So there's uh there's quite a bit of it there um Councillor [anon_$032] that have maybe of maybe of help to you um I can't see it in the report we got on the appendix. Maybe it's in a different one so perhaps you could circulate that afterwards thank you Well, I can I certainly will and and and and and that's, and that's exactly what I what I will do. Now I'll just take this down sorry, [tech noise] yeah and then uh just just in relation to uh the um recovery and resilience, we did make submission to this the the um [anon_PR42]. Um we didn't we didn't uh receive funding, but we did get an acknowledgment from the department relating to our submission. Um you know, there are a lot of a lot of funding applications being made with regards to to, uh to the green agenda at this point in time. And in our car= our cyro office, in relation to um in relation to the seed itself, are looking at are looking at making, uh uh looking at um developing an application and making an application for the city of [anon_PL44] in relation to resilience, and climate action, this point in time. Uh so I can I can, I can ask um [anon_FN90] [anon_SN28], to to provide you with information if if that would be of use, uh ![unclear]/! please, just so that we we have 2030 seems to be when the protected areas are going to be under the sea. So I'm I'm consciousness that the time is um or is it you know, time is time is uh running out you know, we've eight years [laugh] I I I I I fully ![unclear]/! in 2030 I can tell you um I'll probably be... swimming myself in 2030. Look, I I I I understand that there are and and continue to be and I think earlier on in the report, we made reference to some of the successes there, that the you know, ![unclear]/! um you know, have secured 1.2 million worth of funding in relation to retrofitting of building so it has commenced, has commenced, uh just just just to make reference the office isn't there to make applications for the for the department or the council, the office is there to support the council. That's that's the ethos of it, it's there to provide expertise and experience either either internally or or externally to allow the core departments, you know, move ahead with those applications, because that's that's where the skill set lies um with regards to that. So it's just it's just to make that point. um thank chair I think that's what I have on my list. Is there more questions there? Thanks, [anon_$045] uh Councillor [anon_$037] Councillor [anon_$032] Councillor [anon_$036] do you want to come back on any of that? Okay, [cough] sorry, just are we are we dealing with the [anon_PR43] in the later report or now? Yeah I was gonna go to to to the management. Yeah that's okay yeah yeah yeah Okay, unless there's any other questions then [anon_$045] thanks a million for all that really constructive work, um as was said and, and good wishes to [anon_FN88] obviously, as well. So we'll [breath in] move then to um the management reports um and we'll take questions in respect of all of the management reports um agenda item number eight. So if there's only hands for that, I might just sneak in there um around the employment survey results 2021. I think they were published on the 17th. of January. Is it safe to say they look good? Maybe [anon_$038], you might come back to me on that. um as one of the questions. um if there's any others on the management reports, Councillor [anon_$036] I think you're gonna come in there. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, sorry, I I I missed the um [pause] I missed the [anon_PR44] uh reference. So I've had a look at it there it's brief enough um I still think at some stage, uh we should have it as a substantive item on our agenda, preferably at the next meeting. As a stand alone um just looking at it, I would be a bit concerned in the ![unclear]/! three stage process that the actions are a come at the very end do you know I think we should always in these things where, as soon as we can, we should try to come up with practical actions and outcomes uh it doesn't really give a timeline. So maybe that could be clarified. That's it. Okay thank you um Councillor [anon_$032] Yeah, uh Chair. I'm just wondering, are we going back to um item six? Sorry, no, I finished with item six. But if you want to raise something from item six Yeah because we just sort of skipped over it and I just think they were absolutely excellent reports and I just wanted to compliment uh you know the um both the the [anon_INST135] um and the range of activities that are happening there um absolutely fantastic to see that happening in in our city and that's what makes you know, that's what makes our our city um you know, a good place to live and our communities good um there's everything from activities in the parks to, you know, recycling of of bicycles and circular economy and park it, there's just loads of brilliant things happening there. And you know, um and it's well worth reading through it um and seeing the the amount of innovation, social innovation that's happening, and just to welcome that and just uh the [anon_PR33] I I know I took participated in it myself, and um absolutely great uh reports and outcomes, I just love to see those being implemented, you know um and I'd love to tha= to see that we would have the resources to be able to do that. Because um you know, the, from everything from I mean, that in itself, you know, the resetting everything from the the social to the economic um to everything was covered in that to climate um actions and and planning and, and resilience um so I just think, you know, it might be something, we could look at that report again um and and look at where we how we could implement some of the the actual measures in that because um I think we'd have a fantastic city, and we'd be the best in the world, if we could actually implement those um and we'd be very resilient, livable city um so just just, I you know, I I we seem to we went over it, and some of us were there, and some of us weren't, and and I know yourself chair, um you know, opened the whole thing, and you participated, but I just didn't want to sort of, you know, run through it too quickly, because there's, there's so much good in in it thank you Thanks so much for raising that Councillor [anon_$032] I certainly second all of that. And that theme of innovation runs right through those reports. And I think really it's brilliant as part of the [anon_INST136] that we have that kind of innovation coming through and we just need to implement them now. Isn't that that the reality is? Okay um so just in respect to the management reports, then there's my question around the employment survey results in 17th. January and Councillor [anon_$036] question in respect of the [anon_INST132] being on the next agenda of more substantive matter would somebody takes those from management? Yeah, [cough] sorry, Chair. Yeah. [anon_$038], here, I'll I'll take the uh the the employment survey uh just so you know, the employment survey was um announced there this day last week by an Tainiste and uh there was a very impressive um result on job creation, net job creation uh here was 3000 jobs created throughout the [anon_INST134] network in relation to the [anon_INST134] [anon_PL42] there was 1728 jobs uh within 377 client companies in our portfolio uh and of those there was 408 jobs gained and a net increase of 147. Now in the year that's in that is quite impressive insofar as we were we were sorted of it was a difficult year. And there was the it still is quite difficult for uh businesses as at the moment. But I suppose some of the good news is uh the startups were experiencing a 30% increase. It's in in participants on our start your own business program. And I just like to draw your attention to pages 119 to 122 of the agenda. It does list the uh 66 uh measure one, as we call them grants, financial supports that were given out uh this year, which is 1.28 million uh in in was awarded in grants to and and that was to create 122 jobs. So I just wanted to highlight that that's now recorded in the agenda. Thanks, [anon_$038] for that. Presumably though, the the PMI survey results, the business activity continued, albeit job creation is still at a good level, it seems to be a much softer pace I presume that's Omicron we don't have to be worried. Um yeah, no, I think well, I think the news there last Friday really did [laugh] it was great to see the city reopening. And in fact, you know, the COVID restrictions reopening I think it's a it's a real celebration for all businesses, but I do think um we're probably in a in a better place than than we thought we would be. And that's all that's all I'd say and um but there's a huge amount of work to be done a huge amount of work. Thanks, [anon_$038] Councillor [anon_$036]'s question who who's going to take that? Uh I can take that chair if that's okay. Thanks, [anon_$034] great Uh Councillor [anon_$036] uh thank you for your your question around the [anon_INST132]. As you said there's a a a brief update on this report. But we can certainly do a more detailed standalone uh agenda item for the next meeting of the [anon_INST91] uh I suppose what you know has happened since uh we last met is that we had the in person meeting on the 23rd of November where the 24 elected representatives were invited uh to attend an event in in city north and supported by the administrative staff um so at that meeting uh the elected representatives elected a a chair and vice chair. So the chair is Councillor [anon_FN91] [anon_SN29] uh of [anon_INST137]. And the Vice Chair is Councillor [anon_FN92] [anon_SN30], I think from [anon_INST113] um so the chair and vice chair will now set dates for the future um meetings of the advisory group um so I I appreciate your point about the three stage process and the action plan being the the final stage. But it doesn't mean that actions haven't been uh developed um you know, in the work that has been ongoing since 2018, uh the [anon_INST38] um [anon_INST138] report has been commissioned on the corridor, the former launch event then took place in March uh a website has been developed that holds the the reporting and other content on the the corridor um [anon_INST139] and [anon_INST85] have been commissioned to um assist in the production of the development plan. And a big focus there is looking at what structures do we need going forward, because it's eight councils and two universities that form part of the corridor um so the initial thinking is that and looking to European and international examples of corridors, that uh it may be within uh on of the local authorities would support the structure initially on behalf of all corridor members and then in time, it would be looking to a standalone entity that would uh be be the the corridor support and then that would enable the application for [anon_PR45] funding or other initiatives. So a lot of work has been ongoing, including the identification of uh companies along the corridor that can be promoted. Um so there certainly is an intention that it's it's an active corridor but I suppose this period of the development plan is allowing uh a comparison with how other characters have evolved and developed and what aspects we could have in common with those or how we'd learn from their their strengths or or weaknesses uh but but certainly we can we can plan to to do a fuller uh piece for the next year [anon_INST136] uh thank you. Very good morning go raibh mile maith agut [cough] Thanks, [anon_$034] Councillor [anon_$037] Councillor [anon_$032] and [anon_$035] in that order. When you're ready Councillor [anon_$037] Yes, I'm trying to. Oh God I've lost everything here. Will I come back to you in a second? I might is my is my there's something strange going on here can you hear me? We can hear you but your camera's gone off yeah Oh yeah so at least the microphone is on so No, you're back no you're good yeah Oh, okay um anyway, is the camera gone off? no it's on you're perfect yeah. you can see me not that it matters at least once you can hear me I suppose is the important point uh thanks for for letting me in. But uh what I'm I'm concerned about is when I mentioned about our connection with [anon_PL69], I pointed out that I was being told continuously that it would have to be done through the [anon_INST140], which didn't make sense to me. I am saying that one and a half years down the road, we're still no further on why it has to be the [anon_INST140] that is embraces all of the local authorities. The particular scheme that I am interested through the peace process is or the the the the [anon_PL45] um that I would like to look at whether we could have a joint um uh project in relation to older people, uh [anon_PL44] and [anon_PL69] and that we could do it through the [anon_PR38] or [anon_PR39] uh and I just don't understand why. You know, we're dragging the feet on that or why we can't do anything about it [pause] So can somebody tell me you know, what has that got to do with with something that's not functioning anyway? And why it has to be put into something I just feel I'm being put off and I'd love to be proved wrong. Okay, I'm gonna take these three questions together thanks Councillor [anon_$037] Councillor [anon_$032] Yeah, um, I didn't really have a question as much just to say that I welcome the amount of um you know, enterprises and new startups I can see some of them are expansion but there's an awful lot of priming um so just to welcome the fact that there is obviously you know, this time maybe uh during COVID in a way has given people time to think up um very innovative on there's a lot of innovative and very green stuff in terms of reusables and you know, mothers reusable bees on the roof limited and all that stuff and just to to welcome them umum I because I think these you know, these are providing solutions and I wish them the best of luck and I'm I'm really think without that, you know, that initial funding, they wouldn't be able to get these up off the ground and I just think they're wonderful thanks Thanks, Councillor [anon_$032] and in that vein, uh I'd echo what you've said [anon_$035] in the, in the chat function about the big shout out to [anon_FN93] for compiling all of those uh the digital brochures sorry around the the [anon_INST141] um [anon_$035] over to you. Yeah again, not not a question, just a comment, just to say that it was great to see that [anon_PL44] was awarded joint second place in the [anon_PR46]. I thought that was amazing, actually, I think that it was joint second with [anon_PL74]. And uh I was particularly looking at uh all the innovation that was happening, I was struck, actually, by the uh host of kitchens there automated deliver deliver robot, which delivered burger and chips to a student in [anon_INST38]. And I was just thinking myself wouldn't it be great now if you had a deliver a robot to hop up to McDonald's or somewhere like that if you didn't want to cook. [breath in] um but I I I think also just to say, I I like, I think the whole [anon_PR47] is absolutely fantastic. And I think um [anon_FN94] [anon_SN31] and team have done amazing work. [breath in] um because we're really, we're really kind of getting recognition for our own, innovative uh systems and processes. So again, just to say, look, well done, because there's so much of that going on, it's nearly hard to keep up, but it's great to see it. So that was just what I had to say. Thank you hear hear hear hear thanks, [anon_$035] um just uh somebody to come back then to the one remaining question from Councillor [anon_$037] um I might I might come back on that chair, if that's okay. Um yeah, just to say I suppose in relation to uh [anon_PR45] funding, there's, there's nothing to prevent any uh part of the council applying to that funding. So if it's, if it's to do with um a a project and older people, you know, that would be uh you know, not directly part of the remit of this uh [anon_INST136] or or any of the administrative staff that support it. But the thinking was that, you know, if it's if it's a strategic direction around the potential of the [anon_INST132] that, you know, that would have further strength in an application, because there will have been that work done to look at how the potential of the corridor could uh evolve, um you know, better outcomes for for all of us living and working along the corridor, and that it would have a collective impact with, you know, university and collaborative, uh local government uh um engagement. So that was the the thinking is that, uh you know, when, when we've advanced a bit further on that work, uh it definitely is an ambition of the the corridor to make an application for that funding, but it obviously will be a different type of application, then if if uh somebody was then housing in [anon_INST86] and the older persons unit wanted to make an application in relation to older persons so I suppose it's just a different approach and with a different, uh you know, um I suppose ambition in terms of of what can be realized in in applying for that funding. Okay, is there any other business? [pause] Okay, our our next meeting is the 12th of April, which I think is a Tuesday of Easter Week, and, [anon_$035] robot will be there to deliver uh food to us all in in [anon_PL75]. Can I just make maybe a closing remark just to say= +Sorry chair can I have a quick oh sorry [anon_$044] go ahead yeah matter and I didn't know whether or not to bring on the management reports, because I know they deal with events there. But one of the key things that we're getting a lot of requests, in particular for companies across the city um as we go forward is obviously around the [anon_EV19] and not necessarily while things are still up in the air flux, is, it'd be great to get as early communications out there around the thinking um that might be there in terms of, you know, obviously, with less tourism focus on retail, and this sorts of aspects. But what does the festival entail? Because it's for two things, one for what the business know what to plan for. And the second is that we actually, with the team, like [anon_FN95] and the place brands that we continue to promote people coming to stay in [anon_PL44], for that for that look four day weekend and we want them to enjoy themselves as well. And actually, you know really get to learn the city again. Yeah chair I I I I do know what the theme is because I'm putting something in the the parade myself with the cycling ![unclear]!\ and so it's [anon_PUB2]. So, um you know, we can um all start getting into the theme of [anon_PUB2] if if any of the businesses want to go along with that theme as well. Great. Thanks, Councillor [anon_$032] I think we'll we'll take it that [anon_$044]'s sub= submission there is reflective of of all of our view on on that um and [anon_$043], thanks for putting in the chat function about the excellent reports. And maybe just for closing remarks say we probably don't get to celebrate enough the amount of work that's going on and the amount of of positivity and innovation in those reports and [anon_$035] we got to on the last occasion at the last meeting and respect to social enterprise. But I'm delighted to see um that smart cities have been invited and it was put forward by Councillor [anon_SN32] I think at the [anon_INST93] meeting, to to share all of that um with the [anon_INST93]. I think that will be a great night um when all of that is celebrated. So I hope to see you all on the 12th of April thanks Thank you Chair [laughs] I hope not I I did very well I did very well until I got to the subu= suburbs yes yes yeah and then it took me another kind of three quarters of an hour to the [laughs] place that I was looking for [laughs] I went around uh I'm not the best navigator uh but it was fine. But do you know, I met two men who were so helpful and they went to so much trouble um yeah yeah very good I'm not too sure that you'd get the same kind of attention in [anon_PL44] you know they yes yeah yeah good morning everyone. good morning oh good morning are we on air are we? good morning yes um so yeah sorry we were just getting the live stream sorted there. Um it's, it's up and running. So I think we will be okay to start. We're just going to have a quick check to make sure we have seven members [tech noise] [counting] [whispers] I hope I'll be able to get the um um the agenda and the reports on an email. [anon_$053] did you send the actual agenda itself? Because I can't get into um uh [anon_INST81] I mean please it came from [anon_FN81] it came from [anon_FN81] so if you go to [anon_FN81] oh [anon_FN81] thank you yeah [anon_FN81] it will come up under that yeah yeah we will get it sent to you again councillor [anon_$037] [anon_$053] is just gonna send it to you again so it will be at the top of your inbox. you alright? You can you can get in through the public website as well just go straight to browse meetings on No, it's just that I can't I can get it on my my iPad which I'm which I'm using for this but I was trying to get it on my desktop here. And that was the difficulty. Yeah councillor [anon_$037] it has been sent to you now uh just at this moment. Thank you thank you very much. Thank you. she'll you'll hardly have anything to say [anon_$037] will ya? Sorry. you'll hardly have anything Right we'll get started if everyone's okay with that. Yes, yes yeah fire away Yeah. yes thank you there's something wrong it's either my hearing aid good morning everyone or but I'm missing a lot of what's going on [laughs] I'm not catching uh the points anyway Okay so um eh we're in uh the civic office office So hopefully the Wi Fi will ah stay with us um well but would somebody volunteer as deputy chair on the off chance that we get shut off? I'll I'll look after that yeah much appreciated councillor [anon_$054] um so we're we're hoping this will be our last completely online meeting and that will move to hybrid um for our summer meeting. But bear with us um as we get all that done. The usual housekeeping applies, please keep yourself on mute if you're not talking uh we have a number of presentations today. We're going to keep the presentations to 10 minutes and the discussion afterwards for 10 minutes each um and then you can see we have a busy enough agenda um so just before we get started, uh I would like to just pick out something that um I really enjoyed over the um in May and a lot of people here were instrumental in getting it happening which was [anon_EV20] um which happened in [anon_PL76] um and the may bank holiday weekend. It was a wonderful kickoff to what will hopefully be an annual or even a more often event, um and I just wanted to recognize uh councillor [anon_$036] councillor [anon_$042] um and councillor [anon_SN34] who are uh part of that working group um and [anon_$066] as well who's a member here and has been doing great work there. So we'll kick off we have the minutes of the previous meeting. Can I get a proposer please? I propose I propose Thank you. Um and are people happy to note those minutes? Yes. Yeah Yeah noted yeah Um so we're going to move on to we've a presentation uh on the city sport and wellbeing partnership [anon_PR48] We have [anon_$057] and we have [anon_$064] here [paper shuffling] can I pass over to one of you? And are you happy to share your screen? [tech noises] [silence] Yes, thank you we'll just share it now. Thank you. So we'll try and keep the presentation to 10 minutes and people can raise their hands at the end if they have uh questions. So you're very welcome. Go ahead [pause] [tech noise] [whispers] okay, can you see that? Not at the moment [pause] [whispers] we'll try [unclear]/! [tech noise] Now we're getting somewhere. Yes, yeah. great can see that that's great. Thanks very much [anon_$057] [pause] Okay, [unclear]/! yeah okay guys can you see enough of the screen there to to progress with it? Yes, I think so. Okay, brilliant. Well, good morning, everyone and and thanks for giving us the opportunity to present here today. Um and before we actually commence the presentation, I'd just like to draw your attention to the the cover sheet there where you'll see see the logo and the visual identity for active [anon_PR48] um so this was quite a long time in development and was only recently signed off so we hope you'll agree it's, it's strong, and it's vibrant, eye catching, um and something that we hope you'll all become familiar with over the next few months as as promotion ramps up um. Okay, so this is just an overview showing the the five cities who are involved in the [anon_PR48] nationally. So you've got [anon_PL77], [anon_PL41], [anon_PL78] [anon_PL79] and [anon_PL44] um the project is funded by the [anon_PR49] fund. It's managed and overseen by [anon_PR50], and it's delivered down by the respective local sports partnerships in each city um [anon_PL44] is unique in this sense, I suppose as as the other cities require its one [anon_INST142] for one city, whereas in [anon_PL44], we've obviously got four [anon_INST142]'s um broad collaborating sharing information and resources under the [anon_PR48] brand. [tech noise] Okay, so what is an active city? Prioritizes physical activity for all increases the number of active spaces throughout the city. Physical activity should become a social norm built into people's home work and community lives and also seeks to provide equal access and opportunity for all to take part. Now you=you may say that a lot of these aims and objectives would normally be associated with uh with a local sports partnership anyway, but what elevates it is that the active cities model that provides resources and structures for better and more sustainable outcomes. So essentially, what what we mean by that is enhanced programs and activities, greater collaboration and partnership, greater innovation um access to new research and data, and most importantly, a a very clear roadmap to achieve the set goals um and all this is driven by by the national lead for [anon_PR48] uh which is [anon_SN35] [tech noise] Okay [pause] so why the need for the [anon_PR48] project? Well, as you can see, there are only 42% of adults and 13% of children in Ireland meet the national uh physical activities, recommended guidelines um that's from the the [anon_INST143] media report 2021. We're only a year on from that. So the figures are probably in in around the same um so why is this initiative being rolled out solely in [anon_PL78], [anon_PL41], [anon_PL77], [anon_PL79] and [anon_PL44] well, over 33% of the Irish population live across the five cities. Um so that's the reason for that, while you might find is if the [anon_PR48] goes really well am similar initiatives might be rolled out in in some of the bigger towns across the countries and and larger population centers. Um so [pause] we know that physical inactivity impacts people negatively, but it also impacts negatively on the health economy, Environment and Community of our cities. So the the problem isn't just around individuals, it's around society as a whole. [tech noise] Okay. So here we have the the vision and the mission, the vision of [anon_PR48] is to engage, maintain and increase the numbers of citizens regardless of age and ability participating in sport and physical activity in our city. And the mission of [anon_PR48] is to create the opportunity for citizens to lead healthier lifestyles in the context of sport and physical activities. Um [anon_PR48] is is delivered um through four key kind of guiding pillars, um and you'll see them there on the right hand side. So I'm going to hand over to [anon_$057] now who'll kind of go into those pillars in a bit more detail and show how we're deliverng on on a practical level on the ground. Thanks [anon_$064] um so the active systems piece is probably the one that's the most challenging um in terms of getting increased input into physical activity uh plans with stakeholders, and trying to put uh sport and physical activity at the forefront of all um policies and plans um linking in with the [anon_PR51] plan, there's an awful lot of objectives and actions for local sports partnerships um but we just feel that we need to have a little bit more collaboration around how we actually deliver on those actions, um greater collaboration and cohesion across departments and organizations, both internally and externally. Um so we started to work uh probably a little bit more efficiently uh internally with other departments that have a responsibility a=around physical a=activity, or engagement in the communities um greater access to and use of data on physical activity and sedentary behavior. So we've engaged on two um research project projects already ourselve [anon_PL42] sports partnership with [anon_INST144] um about seeking out the sedenentary. So one of the things that we obviously do well is that we do uh deliver physical activity programs um in disadvantaged areas and we do get great engagement, what will happen with some of those programs is we will have many participants that will be repeat participants. Our challenge is to get new participants all the time. Um and so we're hoping that this research will give us a baseline data of where we sit uh within those communities and who is actually been active and who's not been active. Um It's not as simple as just rolling out a physical activity program, you have to find the barriers and the reasons as to why they have not already engaged and that covers an awful lot around marketing promotion communications um using different channels of communications to engage with the different uh cohort groups that we we need to engage with. The active environments piece is is a new kind of piece for us as well, in terms of its improving access to spaces and facilities for all. So we'll be looking to engage with the sports department um around the facilities and the usage of facilities we already do. But this will be more on a strategic level. As we look to review our strategy for both sports and facilities side um of things. Um we would also hope to have some implementation around policy and design guidelines to strengthen so new infrastructure is physically activity friendly. Um so we are in collaboration and totally meeting with parks shortly the parks department to see how we can enhance their service in their parks around physical activity engagement um whether by it's putting in new equipment, new infrastructure, um some simple little uh extra added bits can go a long way for engagement within the community to bring them into the spaces and places. The act of societies is more around the national campaign so that we're all working together nationally, you will see a lot around Twitter and social media, uh around the [anon_PR48] campaign nationally uh with all the same logo with all the same imagery and with all the same design toolkit um so having that bigger reach um will also help we will be able to all help each other particularly with the other [anon_INST109]. Um we're also looking at more effective marketing and branding um whereby we will be seen visually more in the outdoor spaces at events and programs around the city and more se=accessible mass participation events. So looking forward to um being back in the delivery space of participation events where we will collaborate. Uh one of the examples we're look= we're working towards at the moment is the sports ability uh day out in the [anon_PL80] out in the national arena out there, uh first of all, because it's a suitable location, but it's all the [anon_INST109] coming together to offer for the first time, um an inclusion day for both where we can bring adults and children together of all disabilities, um and provide them with um a taster sessions on sport and physical activity education for the carers the tra= the leaders, the teachers and we're working towards that for October. [background noise]. The active people at peace is probably the easiest uh I suppose pillar at the moment in terms of that a lot of it is what we do as a sport sports partnership. But really our challenge or our action here is to try and enhance that service as much as we can be more innovative around what we do and to make sure that we are actually giving an increasing opportunities for people of all ages and all abilities to take part in in in the service that we provide. [breath in] Sorry could I could I just ask you to up the pace a little bit you have about two minutes left? Thanks. Okay, no problem. Um we can send a copy of the presentation over anyway, I think people probably get the gist of but anyway, so the other pillars will be active systems. So wa=awareness raising, am we will be setting up a steering group um internally and externally. Ah we'll be using baseline data to establish where we need to work in in specific areas of the city. And we'll be working together on collaboration and learning also. [pause] [tech noise] The active environments pieces, the public spaces am cycling and walking and innovations and as you can see, we've given a few examples there around we= how we've already started to begin collaboration ah with other departments and sections and we recently launched our couch to 5k podcasts, which which is a new innovation for ah the sports partnership, which is never done before and it's getting great reach at the moment [pause] the active societies is ah the teams under that is the focus so the focus is on people who are obviously am in disadvantaged areas or have a disability, ah we will be working on research to make sure that we establish preferred communication channels to target groups, obviously, a huge push and drive on communication, and also on promotion. On the active people, as it covered, we've already done an awful lot of work in this area but the teams under that will be targeted initiatives working with the [anon_INST145] and the schools within our areas, online and innovative initiatives and building leadership within the community. So the act of cities overview is just for all loc= uh local authority areas, each [anon_INST142] will be crew= recruiting a local [anon_PR48] officer, which we've short, just shortlisted for, and the key focus is, is there cross sector buy in am making sure the voice of those most inactive is heard and ensuring strategic input from all relevant stakeholders. And the last slide there is just some words that are associated with the [anon_PR48] I hope I got that done in two minutes [laughs] Thank you. No excellent, thank you really appreciate it. I I think the discussion and the questions will also guide you to the areas that people would like to know more about. Um so Um if you wouldn't mind might be easier if people could see each other so if you could stop sharing your screen, but you can reshare it if people need to go back. Um the first three speakers I have are uh Councillor [anon_$054] councillor [anon_$065] and [anon_$066]. Thanks, chair I just want to thank the deputation for the excellent presentation really, really good. And just to compliment the people we have on the ground at the present time, as far as development officers, I know the one up here in [anon_INST37] does a fantastic job. [breath in] Yo=you mentioned you have funding for this and everything needs funding, you didn't mention how much funding so you could identify that and where the funding is coming from. And the other question uh I would have is, how do individuals and groups if they don't know say the local sports development officer how are they going to find out about whatever we're planning in the various areas around the city or city wide, or whatever the case may be? Thanks chair. Thanks Councillor. We'll take three questions and then uh we'll go back to you uh [anon_$057]. So uh Councillor [anon_$065], please. Thanks very much chair. And thanks very much for the presentation um it's great to see more been done [anon_PR48] uh arena. Um a couple of things. Just one I'm wondering will there be uh specifics, you know, a plan with specifics specific targets, uh specific goals in terms of uh you know, identifiable areas uh that are going to be um targeted in on and measures uh against them, like when deadlines for for achieving various things so that we can see um uh the progress. But the the the piece that I I hone in on regularly is our lack of swimming facilities um in the city, and that that has been going downwards rather than upward um both in terms of public provision and private provision. We saw [anon_INST146] in [anon_PL81] closing off its swimming pool um there's very quite restricted areas and a lot of [anon_INST86] pools and we just don't have enough pools. And this really impacts an awful lot of our aging population. Um but also people who want to do individual sort of um uh active approach say active things rather than team because we do a lot of good stuff in the parks but I really feel we fall down in our swimming pools in [anon_PL44] and in [anon_PL82]. Um and this was shown last weekend in a report as well. So just be interested in hearing your views and all those. Thank you very much. and [anon_$066] go raibh math agat ar corth a la sein ar fad I think the initiative is um very worthwhile and it's it's very much needed just [tech noise] ar ceista ar nom sa ri Gaelige uh I just noticed [tech noise] everything seems to be [tech noise] um as Bearla it seems to be very um even from the logo onwards um I'm just wondering what you're doing to I suppose um to normalize the language in what what you're doing with for I suppose Gaelscoil students, for stud= and for kids being brought up through Irish as well. Uh maybe the first thing that could be done could have a bilingual logo, especially I suppose some city council is getting more and more active and providing opportunities to use Irish um um in the city um and if this innitiative I suppose going forward, it'd be great that to see that that would be on board with it as well. So from logo to I suppose promotional to training and etc, etc. um ca ta ar suil? or what's currently happening and what might be done in the future? Go raibh math agat. Thank you. So back to [anon_$057] and [anon_$064] and then later I'll bring in Councillors [anon_$037] [anon_$059]and then [anon_$032] Thanks. Okay. Thank you very much for the questions Councillors. Am firstly, the funding is through [anon_PR49] funding via [anon_PR50]. And the fund that we've initially received is 435,000 um that's for [anon_PL42] alone. Um So the other local authorities would have received similar funding as well, it's based on it's some of it has been based on population size as well and that's where the funding comes through. Uh we do have to report back to [anon_INST203] um on a quarterly basis around the spend of the fund. Obviously, we received this fund during COVID, where we weren't able to spend um where restrictions were in place, and we weren't able to deliver. We have started now obviously making a delivery on it and we've started to uh spend the funds. Um we were also hoping that while the sports offices are a great um you know, I suppose on the ground in terms of getting word out. Um what we are doing is collectively we're launching our hub our sports hub at the end of the month. Uh this hub is a one stop portal for all things sports and physical activity within the city. And up there you will be able to contact our relevant sports officers, you will be able to get information on any type of program that you may be interested in any type of education and training and we'll also be keeping it up to date with an events calen= calendar. So you'll be able to see in advance what programs are coming and happening within the city. But we will also be doing as we said a national campaign and where we can we'll be attending local community initiatives to get the word out around the [anon_PR48] but also around the local sports partnership. Um still on research, it's based that still to this day, word of mouth is still one of the key ways of communication traveling around anything that we do. But we we are trying to have more of a presence on social media on Twitter. Um in terms of the plan and in terms of the the specific targets we have been set [anon_INST147], we also have to do a logic model approach [tech noise] and we have an action plan that we work towards. And this all feeds back to [anon_PR50] uh whereby they are the ones I gue= I guess you could say checking whether we're doing what we said we were going to do, the national coordinator would also have um her own [anon_INST147] within the project and we have to work on them on a quarterly basis. [pause] um in terms of the deadlines, we have to work each year to our reporting deadlines, but mid year on end of year in terms of finance reporting, and in terms of operational reporting, whereby [anon_PR48] is included within that reporting structure [pause] um in terms of the swimming pools, I will just say that that's possibly not um our area to comment on that would be more for the sports uh facility side. So maybe [anon_$036] or [anon_$045] might want to come in on that. But we have engaged and are engaging with [anonPR52] around a uh co funded swimming officer in the help to promote swimming and open water swimming and within the our swimming pools that we currently have um so that would be a huge asset to the team and sports partnership as well in terms of the promotion of swimming and there have been other initiatives that are potentially being looked at as well. But I will let [anon_$036] or [anon_$045] um answer that. And then in terms of the Irish, we actually are in the middle of uh developing our uh bilangual logo. [anon_PR53] were the first to suggest that it is needed. So that will be on the material when we produce. And we'll also be looking at trying to make sure that uh any material that we do produce is in the Irish language also. [tech noise] Thanks very much [anon_$057] You've covered uh a lot there. So we've got um I've got four more. So we'll take four questions, and then we'll go back to you again. So Councillor [anon_$037] you're up first. Thank you very much Chair. And thank you indeed for the presentation. I just missed the first little piece of it. So I'm trying to find this as an item on the agenda. Is this an extra item? um I can't find um no Councillor it's it's item two I see two on the agenda and the slides were also sent out with the agenda pack. Oh, right so yes it's part of the yes. I I mean, I thought that was kind of mainly [anon_INST1]. Okay, that's fine um my questions are um it it first it's great to see uh this initiative um and I'm just wondering how do local communities um engage with you? Uh I represent an area that on the face of it looks very well served. But in fact, it's not because most of the open space is privately owned and not publicly owned. So we fare out very badly in the [anon_PL44] six area um and we have a huge challenge we'll say in relation to um football for women um who are being um finding it very difficult to actually play. Uh so number one, I'm wondering how do we engage with you we also wh=where we do shine, of course is that we're as a [anon_INST86] um uh um initiative. We have a wonderful uh uh Fitness Center in [anon_PL83] uh and that is actually working extremely well [background noise] so just how do how do I will say as a local councillor engage with you to get a sense of where maybe you could help us out [child background talking] in the area that to get you to focus [background talking] um on the area. Because the trouble is that my experience with the [anon_INST93] is that if the council doesn't have an infrastructure in an area then it doesn't engage. I mean, that happens with senior citizens um uh I think the same happens a bit in [anon_44] six, we're trying to get the um partnership to engage uh for the last two years, um they have just disappeared out of [anon_83] so um it'd be useful to know how do I um um uh how do we make contact with you um and get a sense of thank you Councillor where we could thank you. uh Councillor [anon_$059] uh thanks chair thanks [anon_$057] and [anon_$064] for the uh presentation uh just three [tech noise] three questions on it just uh the the figure of 13% of children hitting the physically active recommendations is a worrying figure, is there a way we can target the the non active children and that because I I'd imagine when we run programs and courses, it's probably the active kids that are getting involved. So is there a way of targetting the ones that that aren't active on that then just following on from from problems is a way of keeping um people engaged uh again, mainly children, but but also adults as well. When they do a programme or do do something um do we do we link them into an local club or a sports organization um after after the the program is finished? And then [anon_$057] you just mentioned the the impacts COVID had. How how are we getting no as restrictions li=lift? Are we back to like, full um full pace from before COVID or are we still are we still noticing some restrictions. Go raibh math agat. Thank you. Councillor [anon_$032] Uh thank you, Chair. Yeah, I just um I just uh want to welcome the report and um I liked um I'm glad to hear that there are some um something going to come in in terms of a uh swimming officer or working with with open swimmers. I mean, I I would like to see more swimming pools and particularly sort of a a lido, which I hoped was going tore replace the the other plan, which was the the um uh [breath in] whitewater rafting plan. So I I did hope I'm [connection loss] a lot of these outdoor lidos that they have one in um I think I believe in um [anon_PL84], as well and they seem to be all around and other European capitals, and we don't have have one here um so I think that would be a great opportunity um for us to have that and would be uh for all ages. Um and um so just I just wanted to know how much you sort of interact with the play ah strategy as well like that sports doesn't always when people say sports think alright, I'm not competitive, I'm not interested in getting involved in something competitive, but they might like to be active in another way like you see the the equipment, the sports equipment, I'd say used on the Promenade down in [anon_PL85] they don't need to get but they can go down and they can use it and when I've been requesting say a table tennis table. I've been told that there's one trial and one park somewhere in the city. But like you just see them all around other cities just been placed um and if you put some table tennis table down the very inexpensive people turn up with their bats and play some table tennis I sometimes I just don't understand why we have to make such you know um like a mountain [laughs] out of a molehill literally just to sort of add a bit of something that could help people to become active um and I wonder could we put a few table tennis table tennis? You know down and I I'd be willing to to find somebody to fund them even I don't think it'd be that expensive. Thanks. Thanks, Councillor. Sorry to interrupt. We are running a bit short on time. So the final question is from Councillor [anon_$068] And we'll go back to [anon_$057] and [anon_$064]. uh hi, thanks a million um I'll make it really quick because a lot of my um comments um that I wanted to make have been kind of made. Um thanks a million [anon_$057] and [anon_$064] um really good report really liked the logo um just one piece that I was picking up on would be the um the parks and um I know that there's another piece of a project kind of going on where there's a review of all the sports facilities um in especially the north central area um for uh because of the lack of spaces, particularly for football and um lit up areas um I know that there's also a lot of [tech noise] groups that are um you know, doing alternative am and using the green spaces in in other ways am so, yeah, I suppose the in the in the wintertime that becomes a little bit of a barrier with the shorter days am with the lighting and stuff ah but obviously there's environmental is=am reasons there as well am and then the steering committee that you mentioned am can councillors go on that? I was wondering am I'd be interested in in in sitting on that one um and ah good to hear about the hub am because I think that's been one of the biggest barriers am I know am [anon_FN96] and [anon_$097] are very active in the north central area. And they have been very good at kind of getting the word out. But there's a lot of people that still don't know about it and I think am a hub would be am a good benefit for that 's am and that's it thanks thank you very much for all the questions back to uh [anon_$057] and [anon_ $064] and if there's anything you can't cover, you can get back to people in writing as well. We are short on time. Thanks very much. Okay, no problem. Thank you very much for the questions, councillors um in terms of the first few questions in terms of how do you engage with us um you literally engage with ourselves myself and the sports officers that are on the ground. Um in each area, there's a [pause] multiple of different sports officers in particular, there's FAI officers for the football for Women program um so it's directly with ourselves or the local sports officer within the area um to engage with us and we can also circulate an up to date contact list, if that's needed for each area and break down the areas of the sports officers in each area. And with that, you'll have their email address and their mobile phone number. Um in terms of engagement, that is the best way to do it. It's through the sports officers if it's to be linked to our programs, but they would also um know the community officers and have other um networking groups on the ground as well. Um in terms of the questions around the !unclear/! the children, it is uh it is not a great figure to see in particularly the field of work that we do. But COVID had a massive impact on the five to 10 year old 13 year olds in terms of sport and physical activity, all sports ceased for the children. And uh they were very inactive. What we've looked to do now is some of our programs are after school programs now. So not necessarily going into the schools during the day, we're trying to capture the children, that not necessarily maybe don't have the time or that the parents aren't able to bring their children to their sport. We're working on an after Schools ah Initiative Program. We also have the marathon kids program where we had over 2000 children take part um in the marathon Kids program whereby they have to run um the mart, well basically run a mile each each time until they get to the 26 Miles COVID did have a very negative impact in terms of our delivery of work, uh when restrictions were in place. But what it did do was put the emphasis and focus on sport, physical activity and play. And I suppose when we say sport and physical activity, uh within the physical activity that covers all rams from walking, cycling, dancing, yoga, it's not just sport. Um just to mention that. And then in terms of how we would probably link um to the clubs as best as we can, when we deliver a program, we always try and work out what the exit strategy is or what the pathway program is, because what we want to do is engage with the participants but create a pathway for them to move forward. So for example um our couch to 2k, or couch to 5k program, we then launched our mini marathon program where we wanted to engage women who had never ran the mini marathon before. And we actually managed to capture them through a lot of the local walking and running programs. And for the first time ever, we have traveller women taking part in the mini marathon. So we've hit a target group that we've found. So it's sometimes very hard to reach, but through the work of the sports officers on the ground. And so where we kind of we always try and provide a pathway to the clubs, and also to our club grants will always make sure that the clubs are aware that we are there, and that there are other avenues and education and training available to them should they need us. In terms of just the play around the play side, we actually have as stencil packs for playgrounds. And we're actually going to be getting a few more in order, whereby we actually can provide them to schools to update their sense of playgrounds for the play side of things. In terms of the parks and the the usage of parks and how we can enhance those we actually, as I said, have a meeting with parks in the next week or two. And within that discussion, we're hoping for a table tennis tech ball. We're looking for a gym equip we're looking for what where the gaps are? And where can we help bring some initiatives to the table with with the budget that we have. And so we're hoping that that will be a positive meeting. And we can identify some gaps in parks that whereby this equipment or infrastructure is needed. And also then just in terms of the steering committee, yes, we'd be absolutely delighted uh Councillor [anon_$068] to have yourself especially someone with the knowledge around the sport and physical activity within the areas and in the city. So we'll be in touch when we know we're setting that up. And also just in terms of parks, I do agree that at the moment, we're quite lucky that we've got the right light and the good weather everyone's out and about. But we are we will always be faced with challenges around usage and challenges around access to facilities in the halls because what is happening is clubs, the clubs are growing. There's pocket clubs now being set up everywhere across the city, for every sport and for every age group and getting access to facilities and training times is a huge challenge and it's something that I think, you know, it will be something that we'll have to look at going forward to see how we can we can um try and change that a little bit if we can in terms of the swimming side and the pool side of things I will ask [anon_$069] or [anon_$045] maybe address that. Thank you very much. Uh I'm not sure if if [anon_$069] or [anon_$045] do want to come in. We are up against it with time though. [silence] Okay, we will we'll get maybe a written response on the the swimming pool. Sorry chair I was on mute there. Oh sorry [anon_$045.] Go ahead. Sorry, my apologies sorry, page 49 of the report there makes reference to um we're undertaking a significant uh sports and recreation strategy to identify where there are deficits, uh including swimming facilities also. So that that that we're making reference to that, and we will keep that on the agenda uh we hope to have that um strategic report available by the end of the year, but that will encompass everything which includes pools and and and swimming facilities also. There's another few little bits and pieces that we're working on with [anon_PR52] as well in relation to powerful pools um uh there's one out in [anon_PL86] at the minute where we're talking about bringing one into the city over the summertime also, but we' ll update the members as we um uh I suppose agree um the logistics of that [anon_PR52] Thanks, Chair. Thanks, [anon_$045] um apologies councillor [anon_$059] we don't have any time for more questions on this presentation. um uh there was a suggestion there from [anon_$057] about circulating and updated contact list um I think that will be very beneficial and councillor [anon_$037] has asked for that as well. So that could be done. That'd be great [pause] so a massive thanks for the presentation um I think the questions have shown there's lots of interest in all the work you're doing, and we look forward to seeing uh how everything progresses. Thanks very much for your time. Thank you Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll move on to our next presentation. Item three on the agenda, which uh we in inspected the skate park over in [anon_INST37] and we have [anon_$056] and [anon_$055] uh from the [anon_INST148] with us [pause] um are you able to share your screen? ah good morning, everybody. Yeah, if you can allow me to share the screen? I'll most certainly do that there. Good morning [anon_$055] um he should be able to share screen yeah he said he could yes Yeah. Do you not have permission? Oh, yeah, there we go. Excellent. Yeah, I think there's hope it's the right one, it is indeed I'm sure. Um again, thanks for allowing us the opportunity to make this presentation. Um I'm hoping the 10 minutes has not started yet. Um [pause] there was quite a bit of a challenge let's say to this combine um 12 years of work into 10 minutes of a presentation. Um but we done we done our best. Um I'm just gonna take you through the kind of journey of the skate park there is a small video, which um which kind of captures the essence of everything that's been going on at the skate park so far um and then we move on to some images and community cleanup and stuff like that. And then look forward to the questions at the end [tech noise] um as I said, Good morning everybody. My name is [anon_$056] I'm an outdoor education instructor for [anon_INST148] We also have present here today [anon_$055] who's the adventure center manager for [anon_INST148] And just to introduce [anon_INST148] at [anon_INST148] we believe that engagement and positive outdoor educational opportunities within naturally empowering environments can increase a young person's potential for developing essential life skills. And these important life skills can not only enhance the education of person development prospects of a socially disadvantaged area, which is the whole ethos behind= the whole delivery and package which we provided it to the actual skatepark itself [anon_INST148] [breath in] Just to take you through the journey, just the background image here just a small caption of what goes on up here in [anon_INST37] in the skate park. Um in the background here obviously, this is the pavilion it was belonging to the scouts, um it's now being licensed in the new [anon_INST149] Um we'll get into that at the very end but this is just a small caption of of some of the ongoing you can see the young people wearing the jerseys and representing themselves and representing the clubs and this clubs there and evenings uh two evenings per week. [breath in] I suppose the whole story behind the skate park itself in 2010 [anon_INST148] we had we had a BMX club and we were constantly in the area to available our facilities and other areas um so we began to lobby [anon_INST86] for our own BMX facilities to be created in the local area [breath in] that this obviously took twelve years and fast forward to 2015 [anon_INST150] and the [anon_INST151] got heavily involved and then the plans began, plans began to to develop the skate park and a BMX Park, within the the !unclear/! park. [tech noise] the whole key to the project was [tech noise] that it was a people first approach [background cough] And this was crucial to making the the play pack in [anon_INST37] a reality. So again in 2010 [tech noise] [anon_INST37] BMX club we presented to [anon_INST86] it was the youngest ever dedication to [anon_INST86] I believe at the time and we went into the [anon_INST86] chamber office until young people in the south we made a presentation [pause] and convinced local councils and stuff that back the project again in 2015 [anon_INST150]. This was a big thing that they came involved um and there was a process rolled out [pause] asking local people to help write the design brief for the new skate park and this is key and this is why the park has been so successful is the involvement in community and and stakeholders from the from the very very beginning. [breath in] Um so [anon_INST150] launched an international design competition also defined architecture designed for the park relational orders and we're choosing as the winning design team for their ambitious scheme for the new play park and [anon_INST86] commit= committed to funding to build and build a park. And then in 2017, uh planning permission was granted after a long process um to construct, construct the skatepark um, and in 2019 then [anon_INST152] were appointed theatre specialist kind of freestyle kind of skate park uh design company ah they were painted by [anon_INST86] as the contractor and subcontractor to build the new skate park um then 2020 thankfully, the skatepark the skate park opened just to move back to 2015 just to give you a little bit more of an insight and the whole process that was rolled out community engagement process as I said which was completely key to the success of one of the key parts to the success of the skatepark today, more than 360 people were documented from [anon_INST37] young and old to share their ideas um these people share their ideas concerns and ambitions with the skate park !unclear/! park. Through workshops, tours, talks, family activities, picnics and more. [breath in] a design brief was written encompassing these ideas wants and needs and an international competition to also find the best architects [clears throat] um the competition um brought four shortlisted design teams to [anon_PL44] from [anon_PL87], [anon_PL88] [anon_PL44] and [anon_PL26] to meet with students in [anon_INST153] and [anon_INST154] and a group of community representatives from the local area am and this is more just a highlight the environment an=and I suppose and and stakeholders and community [breath in] community representatives and and people from [anon_INST37] was was very very key and it was there from the start am I suppose ah a ju= jury was formed of representatives from all stakeholders organizations including myself [anon_SN36] which was a local resident [breath in] to address concerns from residents from from am !unclear/! park [anon_SN37] [anon_INST86] [anon_SN38] from the [anon_INST151] and [anon_INST155] so there's a whole combination of people got involved am plenty of meetings, plenty of writing up plenty of ideas, plenty of consultation with the community itself itself and after much deliberation, am we chose am relationships !unclear/! [anon_INST86] then began to process the tender for a contractor [breath in] am what I'm gonna just do it there's a small ski pack film that was commissioned um by [anon_PR54] and I think it's only a small it's only four minutes long we have plenty of time to get into the logic model at the end of it um but it's just I think if we just play this small movie um have a little look at it and it kind of answers and and displays everything that's going on within the actual skate park itself it's only four and a half minutes long [sniffles] we're not getting the audio [tech noise] we're not hearing the audio on the movie then? no it's not coming through the zoom when you share your screen [anon_$056] there's an option to share sound as well maybe just stop sharing and try reshare it I might just go back there yeah [tech noise] [pause] now where's the where's the share your shared the the sound as well. I think yeah you just need to stop sharing screen then reshare then there's a little tick box where it says share sound as well. So I'll stop the share Okay. [pause] Share screen there should be a littlle tick box somewhere that says share sounds as well. Alright, thank you very much for that fantastic no worries [plays video][several minutes of video] [tech noise] [stops video] Now that's grand. So I hope that just gives people an idea of what's going on in the actual skatepark itself again, it's great to hear from the young people themselves. Um so just mo=moving on just what you would have seen is just a couple of images of the skate park itself there um again a picture paints 1000 words [pause] let me see hold on there so yeah, here's just some of our club members that we we meet every Monday and every Thursday there's a there's a variety of different clubs happening down within the area itself and um young people come up and get involved as as you can see by the video itself. I mean young people are just coming up I mean some people not even involved in bmx but the're involved in I suppose we're registered with [anon_PR55] now they're involved in taking names and, you know, registering new participants and targetiing other young people in cleaning up the park and getting involved in the management of the actual place and building a whole sense of place and sense of belonging within [anon_INST37] here's [anon_INST41] done a completely different video as well, it got some, some international kind of a national kind of recognition. [S053] Sorry sorry to interrupt to interrupt [anon_$056] but we're we're very tight on time, if you can rush to the last few [S056] yeah that's no problem at all yeah that's fine. So just again, you've seen the video here, it was a [anon_INST156] Community Action Group setup. Um and this was set up I suppose the skatepark was was opened without kind of any, any, any public kind of, say, waste disposal facility. So um the people got together themselves took action into their own hands and [anon_INST156] was set up. This was a seven day week project, it's back up and running again, where your people come up by half or every day, and clean their local park. Um and this is just a kind of a snippet of sorry I'm rushing through here. Um just some more images there of the young people coming up and cleaning the park. But the park itself I mean, it's not only successful because we offer a sport facility, it's it's it's a place and it's a heart for [anon_INST37] and it's a home for some young people. Um it's It's an escape, and it's a place where you can come down and kind kind of meet a local youth worker and get involved in other activities. The whole success of the skatepark is based on on the logic model. And the logic model is a diagrammatic representation of the overall purpose of youth work activities um and services delivered by funded organizations to various stakeholders. Um so first of all, we look at the needs of the area which the issues and obviously develop a community biking club and young person facilities and create an area wide approach to build an improved sense of place and community which I think that video kinda captures and make sure young people are involved in issues such as !unclear/! [tech noise]. We target young people who have are involved in issues such as antisocial behavior, reduce physical activity, and most young people do we have engaged in our programs, especially in that video are young people who we actually set out and target. So the objectives are to ensure that the the involvement of young people and development of community based activities identified within the education training board service requirements and en=encourage positive invole in the community based programs. Um as I said, there's a whole logic model based on this and the inputs from the [anon_INST148] at the moment that tree adventure center staff are one community employment staff [anon_PR56] and the outputs that we've we've weekly dedicated am BMX club evenings and structured and monitored Junior Leader programs we've even gone in as far as um we've first placed international uh video recognition with a young guy who achieved a special recognition garda community awards um with young people who've who've been awarded the president the gasket award for their participation, community involvement, within the actual skatepark itself. Um and these are this, this whole approach is based on seven primary um primary outcomes um seven personal social development outcomes, communication skills, it's important that we we look at that with young people confidence and agency planning and problem solving relationships, creativity and imagination, resilience and determination and emotional intelligence. Um and this this underpins exactly what we do. It's great that a young person can come down and learn a new skill on a bike, but we're really interested in how they treat the local area, and how they see the park as their own park. [tech noise] um and obviously [tech noise] improved sense of belonging, place of community ownership and for young people. Um I'll just fast track in through this kind of I know we're short on time there time but I hope the video kind of ca=captures the essence of what's going on there. Um but yeah, that's that's our presentation base. I know we're short on time again, it's hard to it's hard to go in for 10 minutes, and just present the whole thing, but am but that kind of captures the essence of what's going on. I suppose the main thing is that it's it's the community have been involved since the very very start. And [anon_INST153] are on the ground there every day, every evening, we're locking the park there as well at nighttime as well and engaging with local young people uh to ensure that the skatepark and the play park is a complete success. Um it wasn't without its its challenges, let's say there's been constant engagement and consultation with [anon_INST86] and various other stakeholders uh to make sure this park is a success. Um and as I said, it's it's the success of the Park was rolled out at the very, very initial start back in 2015. When they when young people and schools and variety stakeholders because and consulted on the actual journey, the skate park? Um but yeah I'll invite any questions. Um again, we've we've loads of presentations on the skate park itself. They're not they're definitely not 10 minutes, we just kind of fast tracked through that, but I hope people got [breath in] the essence of what we're doing. The importance of the role of [anon_INST148] within the area. Um obviously going back to as far as 2010 and the service and the and the facility that we're providing Um for young people in [anon_Balleyfermot] again, it's it's getting international and national recognition. Um and it's it's a home, the skatepark itself has become the home the heart of [Balleyfermot] And it's used by a variety of different groups, and it's it's where young people meet after school and before school. Um and it's as I said, it's become the main artery for for [anon_INST37] currently at the moment. thanks [anon_$056] But yeah, I'd like to invite any questions? Yep, thanks Yep that's excellent. Um I I know we we've rushed through it but we are over the 10 minutes. Um but you've covered a lot there. So the questions will help target what people would like to know more about. So um if you wouldn't mind stop shar= to stop sharing your screen just so that everyone can see each other. And we'll begin with Councillor [anon_$054], Councillor [anon_$070] and Councillor [anon_$063] And we'll take questions in threes. So Councillor [anon_$054] thanks, chair. And I just want to acknowledge that I am chairperson of [anon_INST148] Um I was one of those people who brought the deputation and many years ago, but I want to congratulate [anon_$056] and [anon_$055] for their absolutely sterling work there. And and the transformative effect that this project has had on the lives of young people in [anon_INST37] and the adjacent playground. And just to touch upon that and to thank [anon_SN39] and his team, because it wouldn't have happened without [anon_INST86]. But just the sustainability of a very substantial project and public investment, I'd say altogether, we must be must be coming up to about 2 million euros. And that's the one area that I'd look at. And I'd like to ask [anon_$056] just like to sustain that investment, what do you think is required to ensure that if I go to [anon_INST37] if I've never been there in five years time, that is going to be something of the magnitude we have there in a reasonable condition. And just to you know, just to say how beneficial it is to collaborations with the local services, because as chair of the youth service I'm mindful that a huge amount of our resources are put in there. We do have a residential facility in [anon_PL89] and a place along the [anon_PL90] and a number of facilities around [anon_INST37]. So just to acknowledge there's a big, big commitment of from our funders to this project as well and I'd like to see some of that reciprocated as well with day to day ah operation costs, but just well done to all concerned Chair. Thank you. Thanks, Councillor um we we do have seven uh more questions to come in. So could I ask questioners to be brief or or to the point as much as possible to make sure [anon_$055] and [anon_$046] have time to respond uh Councillor [anon_$070] thanks, chair. Um I mean, it was very informative there the video and you could see it straight off hand from the kids the importance of this park. Um my son and stepson use it all the time. And I think just the point that I'd like to get across is how important that [anon_INST86] and all the stakeholders support [anon_INST148] um to kind of keep this park as the vital resource that it is. We can build state of the art infrastructure, but unless we're there afterwards to make sure that we're doing that wraparound service, um we won't be able to see its full potential. And I think them the community and the youth services have invested, whether it's dedicated and directly employed staff, but aw= definitely an awful lot of volunteers have kept it going. And I'd like to see through this that the management would hear how important that is, and we can always support them going forward. Thanks, Chair Thanks, Councillor [anon_$063] [tech noise] uh thanks Chair and [anon_$056] and [anon_$055] thanks very much for the work on this and the presentation. Um I suppose just a quick question around the the points you've really emphasized throughout the presentation [anon_$056] was community involvement community engagement throughout been at the heart of the success of the project, and I think we heard the young fella at the start who was in the video, who was doing the clean up and he said it's not [anon_INST86] park it's our park I think that's the type of attitude we're trying to embed in communities when we when we deliver infrastructure and recreation facility such as this around that consultation piece over the long journey ahead between you know, trying to push push for the park and then actually seeing it through to fruition. How how would you sort of look at that, that process and how we can we can speed that up that consultation piece, while ensuring that that the community is voices are heard because obviously, we want to roll this out. We want to try and and and use projects like this as exemplars across the city uh but how how would you see that process? And and how would you how would you sort of improve that going forward? Thanks very much again for your presentation. Thanks thanks [anon_$063] Thanks I'm just gonna take one more councillor because then we're halfway through the questions if that's okay, [anon_$056.] Councillor [anon_$058]? Thank you very much chair. No listen that that was a fantastic uh presentation. And look, it's great to see see that going out out in [anon_INST37] and I think some of the councillors may have raised good questions about wraparound and and keeping it going. I I just wanted if if [anon_$071] is there just to ask him, Councillor [anon_$042] has been raising for quite a while now about about having a similar Skateboard Park in [anon_PL91] [pause] and I think which is which is a fantastic location it's you know, passive surveillance, it's on all the bus routes, it it would really serve the [anon_PL92]. And I just want to know if there's any update on that, please. Thank you. Thanks. So go back to [anon_$056] and and uh [anon_$071] here with us so we will get him to uh respond as well after that. So [anon_$056]. Again, thanks for your questions, um just starting off [anon_$054] thanks very much for your question and I suppose obviously [anon_$054] chairs the board at the [anon_INST148] and he'd have a better understanding than me in terms of financial stability or long term sustainability of [anon_INST148] youth service. Um at the moment I suppose we have a full complement of adventure center outdoor education staff on grounds of [anon_INST37] of the skate park itself, um ho=how sustainable that is, I I'm not sure I know the park itself, I suppose some of the staff hours have been funded by local partnership. Um I in particular applied for [breath in] uh funding from local partnership for for official Junior Leader uh positions within within the actual role itself. So we target young people from [anon_INST37] and give them a kind of an insight into the working environment. Um but I mean, this is only sporadic funding, um the local drugs task force have also come in and kind of help us out with certain funding as well. Um I suppose [pause] it's a huge investment from [anon_INST148] youth service and how sustainable that will be long term and going forward um is is a big concern for us. Um I=It would be great if [anon_INST86] sports development officers or wherever, if you can allocate maybe to other sports development officer outdoor recreation officers to be based at the skate park, um I feel would be would be very obliging to the to the situation um and and act as as a kind of immediate uh lets say protecting of of public public services and public infrastructure. Um thanks [anon_$054] for that. Um Councillor [anon_$070] thanks for your acknowledgement of the of what's going on in the park !unclear/! pioneer thanks very much, uh [anon_$063] um the consultation process was key, as I said, from the very, very start, it's absolutely amazing. Um I think, eh goo=good points [pause] most certainly could have been fast tracked to some of those young people who are you know 12 at the time are now in their 20s and have their own kids now who are bringing their own kids to the park, we definitely definitely took a lot of time. And but was definitely a key a key the key success player in the actual whole success of the whole park itself um if it ever could be improved. Look, just the timeline was just mad, obviously, look, these things take time, but it was was 10 or 12 years before after our first initial lobbying to [anon_INST86] before we actually could put a bike on the ground. Um anything can go on in the background um to speed that process up most certainly [breath in] um I think the next question was for for [anon_$071] from [anon_$058] Thanks, [anon_$056] can I sorry, can I just finish that I just the consultation with [tech noise] community um was quite efficient. But the planning and procurement is what took so many years. [tech noise] Thanks [anon_$055] [anon_$071] is here with us. yeah ju=just in relation to um [anon_PL91] um the the the construction in the fane was a major construction project and it involves um a deep excavation into the ground. So [anon_PL91] is a bit more difficult, because it's um it's a landfill area, and the port tunnel is underneath. And there's multiple utilities also. So I think what we've agreed to do is look at uh uh um adding to the skatepark facilities in [anon_PL91] uh but in the longer term, if we were to look at a larger skate park, it probably wouldn't be there in uh [anon_PL91] it might be in a more appropriate site. And as [anon_$056] pointed out you need that community [pause] engagement. So you know, we would like to see it as a place where we would we be sure that it would be um well cared for and managed into the future um so that kind of partnership [pause] link would be very important in terms of future location for a skate park in [anon_PL93]. Okay, thanks, [anon_$071] We have three more questions. So Councillor [anon_$042] is next place Go Riabh Math agat a cathaoirleach and um thanks to [anon_$071] thanks very much for the presentation. I'm really pleased to see this [pause] uh facility for children um uh and uh young adolescents uh who who don't particularly like other sports, but they love skateboarding. So it's a real big plus for those kids. Uh really well done. 100% of the parks department. I'm absolutely thrilled to see it. Um I really welcome the response that I got to my last early committee meeting question from um [anon_SN39] talking about extending the skateboard facility that we have in [anon_PL91] uh it seemed to be kind of missed. And I just want to remind [anon_$071] again, because [anon_SN40] met us onsite for the launch of the uh [anon_PR57] works, which are huge works causing absolute and utter nightmarish, a traffic jams in [anon_PL91] and I just thought [anon_$072] that as part of those works. I know it's a separate issue. But there's so much going on there at the moment. Could we take the opportunity to extend the skatepark by whatever amount ah further into [anon_PL91] While those ma=works are ongoing. -it look at the skate park that's in [anon_PL91] at the moment. It's really, you know, it's a lovely facility we've been I you know I think it was one of the first things I I asked for when I got elected many years ago at this stage, but there's kids who love it. They they're not into soccer [anon_INST157] they're not into rugby, but they love skateboarding skateparking skate= skateboarding in the skate park ah Mer= kids in [anon_PL94] need it Kids in [anon_PL95] need it uh [anon_$071] can you have a look at that suggestion about doing something now during these works? Thanks a million cathaoirleach. Thanks, Councillor uh [anon_$062] uh thanks a lot chair. Um just to say as well to [anon_$056] and [anon_$055] I mean, really fantastic facility, really positive presentation as well ah It's really good. I kept watching actually there. But yeah, just one observation and with a little bit of a question. And then also another quick question as well. I mean, one of the things that struck me very quickly, especially in relation to BMXing is that this is a really valuable alternative to scramblers as well. Um and I just wanted to to I just wanted to find out. Did you have any thoughts around that? And, you know, ha= has there been any feedback in relation to that it would seem that BMXing is a little bit more of a, a performance activity, you know, or it can be, you know, just wanted to know if you had any thoughts on that as well. I know, there's ongoing, challenging=uh challenges around the image and standing of BMXing and skating, if you were to compare the likes of figure skating, for instance uh which is a little bit more graceful, versus something like skating where people are wearing hoodies and wearing runners. I mean, there is= there are image uh challenges there. But certainly, if we're, and I'm glad um Councillor uh [anon_$042] referred to as a sport there as well, because both are sports but uh just to talk a little bit or any feedback on on both of these pursuits, as as sports and and as uh art forms as well just to maybe discuss or give any feedback am in relation to that, that you might have. Thanks. Thanks. And just a reminder, we are we are up against time. So uh please be brief um Councillor [anon_$072] and then Councillor [anon_$032] Thanks chair. Thanks [anon_$056] for the uh presentation. Ah sorry thanks [anon_$056] for the presentation. Um just a few quick questions. How many kids were initially involved at the start of the whole process back in 2 ah 2010? And how many kids have you got involved now? I know in the northwest area, I I,ve been looking at other councillors for the last few years. Um a=activities for that bracket where one of the kids in your video says it it's never catered for. And we were looking at hangout spaces is there many kids that would hang out there and not use the facility? Um second question, if if if we could get that presentation shared to all councillors, and then my last question [anon_$056] is ha= you know we uh the northwest area had a visit out there I remember a number of months ago, I'm just wondering, after that we were told that there there would be engagement with the youth resource centers in [anon_PL55] and [anon_PL96] I'm just wondering, has there been any engagement with yourself there? thanks very much and thanks for all your work Thanks, Councillor, uh so go back. Oh, sorry. Councillor [anon_$032] Thank you uh chair, I'm conscious of time and how much just to say I I think it's great. And it's great to see that the community have worked with this and um young people themselves. I think it's something to to take um that learning, you know, into other projects, the success of that. And I know it's taken a lot of of commitment from the community as well, to to help the ongoing management of that. But I say in the in the fair in the [anon_PL91] I mean, it seems to be that, like, we obviously we can't go for such an extensive, um you know, because it may be that we don't have the we can't do the excavations, but just sort of simple measures in terms of extending some of it but I think that needs to be done in consultation with the actual you=young people that use that skatepark because they know like, you know, we wouldn't know what our difference between our half rails and our what type of ramps they're having or whatever, you know [laughs] uh it's a while since I've been on a skateboard though. I did. I did. I did like it for until uh my like cousin was doing a lot better than me and I I gave it up [laughs] but um, but uh just yeah, I think that you know, I mean, even like, we've had, you know, come across a Councillor [anon_$042] been bringing it up. And I think that skate park was first moted when when the port tunnel was being built as as a possibility to use some of the funding back then. So it's, it's been a long time and it's so well used. Um you know, the [anon_EV21] was in the park yesterday, which was great to see all the the cyclists+ +and young people +Sorry [anon_$032] can I= we just have you have you got a question for [anon_$056] or [anon_$055] +Okay, thanks. Yeah, I just wanted to ask um I see there's lights there on the skate park there and is there any how do you how did you go about putting in the lights and what was the system of lighting that you used uh for safe lighting? Because I assume that they can use it you know, the winter evenings it's its dark, you know um quite early. So what time does it close at? Or is it open you know, in=into the evenings or even early evenings and and what type of lighting do you use thank you. Thanks. So [anon_$071] has just said that he'll get back to the councillors from the area about the uh [anon_PL91] Bu= so we'll leave the rest of the questions for [anon_$056] and [anon_$055] So back to you [anon_$056] [tech noise] I'll just take the first question then from [anon_$062] um I suppose the whole [pause] relationship between BMX and scramblers am I=we don't see them as as connected in any way. Um I mean, what we're trying to portray uh with young people who come to the skate park itself, I mean, the BMX is only really a carrot at the end of the stick. Um and it's it's our engagement and it's it's the structure that the the BMX sport and being a member of a local club [breath in] and being a member of your local [pause] contributing member of your local area, particular for [anon_INST148] and for [anon_INST37] itself, is what's key to us um young people come down uh we do see scramblers pair and pass and all their socks off. And we do completely separate the idea of the use of a BMX and a scrambler, um in terms of of legality, let's say um and that's something that we would encourage in the development of of scrambler facilities within the area itself um [breath in] um uh just just a whole culture based around BMXing BMX worldwide carries a very, very positive culture we=we've seen young people starting to turn up and and looks so more kind of, you know uh [pause] self neglected, let's say am not looking after and not caring for themselves and and BMX, the image and, and what's portrayed in magazines and worldwide competitions, such as the [anon_EV23]. I mean, they're all wearing the hats now they're getting their hair cuts into certain kind of BMX shape, kind of um things are starting to wear certain clothes uh they're starting to kind of pick themselves up and that has an underlining kind of uplifting kind of mental health kind of factor then as well. It's a real positive image positive culture that we're trying to portray around BMX. Um just moving on to the next question that [anon_$045], how many kids were included? I know back in 2010, we had almost uh between 1001 and 1500 visits from people in that particular year, uh who were engaging in in bike related activities from BMX to mountain biking to just general cycles around the actual area itself. Um it's really hard to grasp how many people are involved in actual at at the moment. I mean if you drive past that, we don't only see it as the skate pack but the play park is what we call it, which combines the skatepark and the actual [breath in] play facility as well. I mean, there could be three four or 500 young people and families and grandfathers and mothers and so on, and connections of families using the actual park itself. When we're running our BMX club, we're not only running clubs for BMX, and we're not only allowing people to avail of the [pause] facility of the bikes, and we're also running outreach programs and engaging with other local young people within the park itself. And and and engage in those and and signing those guys up to to the fore there kind of [breath in] broad spectrum of the actual youth service itself. So in terms of um numbers itself but every Monday and every Thursday we've at least 30 to 40 young people [breath in] engaged in um BMX activities and again sure, we we be going into hundreds and after that once we run into our outreach program [tech noise] [anon_$055] might elaborate in any kind of points here. Um the lights and the security of the park have been absolutely key as well. I mean, just just we got some new fencing around the park but we didn't want it in the first place but we did just for concerns for residents and public safety. There= there's a there's a whole stream of fencing around the park at the moment. Um and the lights come on, the lights come on, say four o'clock every day. And they go off they go off at 10pm every night at the park itself is opened by [anon_INST86] parks and staff members um between eight and nine in the morning and [anon_INST148] at the moment we locked the park every single night. Um in the winter months it closes at nine o'clock up until May and then June, July and August. It'll be open until 10pm uh each night [breath in] and that's facilitated by our [pause] dedicated outreach crew, which is mainly myself and two other members of staff. It's where we closed the BMX club and we we spend some time within the park engaging with local young people and signing them up for [breath in] for for various different variety of different activities available to them from [anon_INST148] and we engage with them and make sure they understand the importance of leaving the facility then as well at the appropriate time. And then we lock up and repeat our process the next day.[tech noise] [sniffs]. Thanks for thanks for the questions. thanks, [anon_$056] [anon_$055] would you like to add anything? [tech noise] just really quickly [tech noise] Our initial Club in 2010 had [pause] 25 members. Um we were very restricted. We could only take 12 out in any week because that's how many fit on the bus and we would go from one [pause] park to another um the [pause] club itself at the moment um has [pause] 80 80 to 90 members at the moment. But obviously that is just the BMX club and it doesn't include all the outreach and all the other activities that we would run [pause] in the park and it doesn't include [pause] all the other um hundreds and hundreds of people who use the park [silence] thank you very much [anon_$055] We've covered a lot there, I think you can hear the enthusiasm for the great work that you're doing, uh which is uh fabulous thank you for [tech noise] can I just !unclear/! oh go ahead Can I just add one other [tech noise] thing? We are hoping and I this is a question for me back to [anon_INST86] we are hoping to have an official opening, because obviously um the skate park [tech noise] opened uh in June 2020. Um in the middle of COVID, [pause] when none of that was possible [anon_INST37] um are having a festival in the first week of July. And so we were really hoping to be able to have an official opening then, if that's um a suitable time for you guys. That sounds excellent. We look forward to an invitation [laughs] Thank you what? very much uh [anon_$055] and [anon_$054] uh uh I I know, I'm pushing for time constantly, but you've packed a lot in. So thank you very much for joining us, um and well done on all of your work? [breath in] [pause] okay, everyone, we're going to move on to our motions. Um I am going to use the [anon_INST158] rules about motions, which means motors will get two minutes other speakers will get 90 seconds and the uh proposer will get one minute at the end. Um so ah item number four is referred to us from the draft development plan. Uh It was deemed um uh operational in nature compared to what's going into the development plan. So it's come back to us. Is there a member of the [anon_INST159] that would like to speak to the motion before we get management to respond? I can speak to it um chair Go ahead. Am [pause] yeah, I just um just to say that I I understand that the chief executive has said that um that it's um outside the scope of the developmet plan in his mind that it's an operational matter. But I do believe that it's it's actually an objective um on in the development plan that we should enhance and look for opportunities where we can, um I suppose a lot of uh to reverse um the the destruction of of nature and the loss of biodiversity that we need to be a lot more proactive in that. And that we should be looking for opportunities to provide, um you know, space for nature within our city. And um I think even though we have a [anon_PR58], I think it needs to be clearly integrated into the the development plan, like, um you know, like heritage like anything else, if we don't actually have a proactive um part in that. And um I think that the wording that is existing there is very limited in its scope and that this is really it means that we're a lot more proactive in looking for habitats and and spaces that nature can thrive in and that biodiversity, especially the day after. Am a nat=after a national biodiversity day. And on the week of um biodiversity week. I think I would like the support of the councillors to putting this into the development plan. Thank you. [silence] Thank you Councillor um !unclear/! of the committee of everybody. Thanks. [laughs] [laughs] thanks, Councillor [anon_$032] uh I believe we've a response from management? Yep um the um I think the objective that Councillor [anon_$032] there was referring to um I I think that's really covered in the the [anon_PR58] which we uh was was approved at council in 20=or in in recent months, uh and we're due to publish it um soon. [tech noise] But there's a whole series of actions within that uh which include various surveys and uh conservation um programs [tech noise] um so I think most of that carry is co=covered within the [anon_PR58] um and [tech noise] um and, the [anon_PR58] itself is referenced within the development plan. mhmm So we think that's that's adequate to cover uh the objectives as set out by [anon_$032] Thank you [anon_$071] Councillor [anon_$037 And again, speakers have 90 seconds um on on motions. So Councillor [anon_$037] I was just simply I was just simply uh just going to make the point that I would have thought this is a motion should go to the development plan motions rather than to because if you want if you want something included in the development plan, but I do take I do take [anon_$071]'s uh points on this. And uh I can see that perhaps we do need to support the management report on it in that sense thank you. Thank you Councillor [anon_$037] just so people know this began as a motion to the development plan and it was brought it was directed away from the development plan to [anon_INST91] !unclear/! Oh, yeah. I see. Okay. Thanks, Councillor uh [anon_$042] Yeah, I agree with uh what councillor um [anon_$037] said there that it's a motion for the development plan. And if it was directed away from the development plan, I presume? No, I can't remember it uh chair. But if it was directed away from the development plan to the [anon_INST91] I don't think the intention was to put it as a motion to the [anon_INST91] to get it into the [laughs] development plan. Um I I I'm a little bit concerned about what's happening with this. But certainly, my experience with [anon_$071] and his team, [anon_SN41] um and the outgoing [anon_SN42], uh there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that everything that's in that uh proposal uh is is in the minds and hearts and souls of those individuals and the team. So I would be inclined to support the manager's report. Thanks. Thank you, Councillor. Um I don't see anybody else raising their hand. So can I ask, Are we happy to accept the uh management report? uh um Considering that the policies and procedures that are mentioned do come through the [anon_INST91] Chair, can I come back in please as the proposer? thanks Oh, apologies, Councillor [anon_$032] go ahead. Am yeah, well, this this came from a number of of councillors it was it was in November, why it's taken so long to get to the [anon_INST91] I don't understand and I only just just saw it on the agenda, and joined the meeting and asked for a link. Um so I wasn't aware that it was even coming up. Um but I think it's a bit um [pause] you know, it's one of the the the roles that a councillors have in terms of reserve function is to make our development plan. Um and, this I think, was a, you know, a very proactive way, not saying not !unclear/! we do have, you know, a [anon_PR58] but just to make sure that the type of the development that we have in the city that we do actually make space for nature, and that we do actually protect um you know, biodiversity, um and that it's not just a ma=managerial function, I think it is the role of the councillors to do this. Um it's it's a role of us um all to protect uh nature and to protect uh biodiversity, but I am sensing that I don't get the support from my fellow councillors on this. So um we will take the chief executives uh views um and and I'll take that I'm I'm it's unfortunate, but I would like to put it to a vote. Thank you. So so [tech noise] Councillor [anon_$032] are you asking us to vote on whether this should go in the development plan? Um but I'm not sure why it was reserve= why it was um put onto the this this particular [laughs] but I assumed it's because we decide on policy at this particular um um [pause] you know um that !unclear/! policy committee decides on policy of the council. And, you know, if this is a policy issue and a policy issue that should be that the members feel should be in the development plan. Perhaps that's something we should consider. !unclear/! [coughs] If it isn't, if it is that if we we feel that it is a a sole reserve of the management to decide in these issues. Well, that be it that um um agree. Thank you, [anon_$032] Thank you. So we we don't have the authority here about development plan matters. That's a a matter for the full council. And we we have the opportunity to put in motions to the current draft um that's happening later this week. Um so I think the purpose of coming to the [anon_INST91] is for us to hear more about wh=why it's more operational and I think we've heard that. [breath in] um so I'd prefer not to put this to a vote. Um but I I can see that the manager is looking to come in here. Uh [anon_$033]. Yeah, no, thanks very much chair. Um it's a it's a reserved function that's part of !unclear/! I think the reason it was sent back uh to the [anon_INST91] was to have a broader discussion. On the issue uh [pause] that the [anon_INST159] brought over. And I think [anon_$071] has sort of dealt with it in terms of [pause] uh where !unclear/! the actions that they're doing. The [anon_RR58] was actually linked into the development plan. So it was sold out of a broader debate as opposed to uh putting a motion down for for uh agreement or not this month. Okay Thank you, [anon_$033] Uh are we happy that we've had a chance to discuss this and that we can move on to the next motion? [silence] Chair? [anon_$042] yeah look it uh that there was a kind of an implication in something that Councillor [anon_$032] mentioned there that uh all councillors need to be involved in the protection and enhancement and preservation of the biodiversity. Nothing could be further from the truth as far as I'm concerned in terms of the councillors [pause] on [anon_INST86] So [pause] we have already [pause] put this into the development plan. I'm just concerned about the way this is happening. So [pause] there's nobody here not concerned about the preservation of the biodiversity to enhance and protect all of our lives and our health. But it's, it's, you know, if if we pass this to go into the development plan, well, then every [anon_INST91] across the city is going to be putting motions that get refused into the [anon_INST91] I have concerns about the process here. Okay. So I'm happy not to accept what's being asked here, which is that this go in that this ammends the development plan. It's just the process chair. So let's be clear about all of us. We all care. Nobody cares more about biodiversity than the next person. It's a very huge, it's a huge issue in our lives. So it's the process here that I'm not happy with thanks I support [anon_$042] Thank you, councillors. Uh so my understanding is this was referred to us we've had a response, which shows that what is being looked for in the motion is covered within policies, particularly the [anon_PR58] We've had a chance to discuss this. I'm going to move on to the next motion. Sorry chair, chair could I just come in on a point of information, please? go ahead Councillor [anon_$058] Yeah, my understanding is that councillors can put anything they like into the development plan at any stage at any motion. Um I got that impression from from speaking to [anon_SN24] at a workshop, and we're not bound by um sticking to certain certain motions at certain times. So I think they could if they wanted it, they could put that motion back in if they want. You know Councillor I believe they're entitled so thank you. Thank you, Councillor [anon_$058] and thank you coun= chair Thank you. Okay, we'll move on uh motion five is from the [anon_INST89] Councillor [anon_SN43] I'm not sure if [anon_SN43] is with us [silence] [tech noise] Um if [anon_SN43] is not here may I propose the motion on her behalf? You're very welcome to Councillor [anon_$037] you have two minutes. [paper shuffling] yeah ah okay. Well, uh I just, [tech noise] uh I think the points that uh uh [anon_INST89] is making in this, um the fact that these positions are disappearing is something that is very serious. Uh and I support her. And I want to make a a a wider point in all of this, there are positions and roles disappearing in this council by the month. Um and quite frankly, I think it's time that we actually would get a report at or [anon_INST91] of any roles or any any positions that have disappeared or plan to disappear. Uh it can be said I suppose that staffing is not a role for the for the uh for councillors, but certainly the services of the [anon_INST93] is very much a role for the for councillors. Um so I I very strongly support her motion as I said, it would be very useful in fact, if we had more focus uh on ah the way staff are disappearing in various uh uh sections of [anon_INST93] tat a an alarming rate. But I think that's something for all of us to work on together. Thank you Councillor [anon_$037] uh I believe we have an update from [anon_$069] Thanks. Go ahead [anon_$069] Yep thanks, chair. Um I suppose just as a point of clarity, uh there's no intention of these two posts actually being terminated. Um and I suppose to echo what the [anon_INST89] has in the in her motion um ah the sports inclusion officers [anon_SN25] and [anon_SN44], uh carried out excellent work uh over the last three years, uh and have um uh had some amazing uh outreach programs. And unfortunately for us, both of them have uh now moved on to other jobs, they they applied and were successful in competitions. And I wish them the best of luck. They did great work for us while they were here. [breath in] But we're now working towards uh putting together a a new competition for the posts, uh which we will advertise as soon as we possibly can. Um uh like a lot of things at the moment there's a there's a huge demand for uh new new advertising of the posts so uh we'll be working with our HR department on doing that. And I suppose just in the meantime, we're not forgetting about the groups uh who would have been involved with uh [anon_FN98] and with [anon_FN99] uh and we're facilitating those uh and the programs as much as we can to our sports development officers. And that will continue on to the posts are filled. Thank you, [anon_$069] Before I go back to Councillor [anon_$037] does anyone have any questions or anything to say? [silence] Okay, uh thank you, [anon$069] Again, I think that was very clear, Councillor [anon_$037]. Would you like to? No, I'm quite happy. Just as you put it. yeah Yeah !unclear/! put it I mean the fact that uh they have they've reassured um that uh these posts um are being advertised that's I'm happy enough with that, and I'm sure the [anon_INST89] would be too [tech noise] Wonderful. Can I uh take that motion as adopted? [silence] Agreed. Yes Thank you very much. Um motion six from [anon_$060] um would you [pause] like to introduce your motion [tech noise] go raibh math agat you have two minutes go raibh math agat cathaoirleach. So the context for this motion is one of my !unclear/! which is the lack of space for culture in the city center. [breath in] long term solutions will take a long time. Um but I'm wondering if there might be uh some short term measures that could be taken, [breath in] um I realize that this is work for the [anon_INST93] and for the [anon_INST86] I'd be interested to hear their view. Um even I've even encountered the issue in [anon_PL97,] where I live and where I'm involved in organizing, [anon_EV24] the community and arts festival, we approached um an an auctioneer who had [breath in] um a premises on their books, and we weren't able to use it because the the owner was concerned about a change in their rates um but and it's still vacant. Um [pause] so yes, [anon_INST93] have a sense of what properties it has, what kind it used to be made of it, and whether they have the capacity to be the adjudicators. I note, for example, what what looks like a very promising process where the arts office are now [breath in] um looking for, I think, up to 14 um organizations or artists to use film base that has been vacant for a long time. So I certainly think that's a good precedent. And, um and the council has the capacity. And I do think that [breath in] um this could be a solution, at least in the short term. So the problems we're having around space for culture. [pause] sin é. Thank you ah thank you, [anon_$060] um [anon_$073] is is isn't with us at the moment, but I'm um along with a few other members part of the working group. oh [anon_$073] is there !unclear/! Oh, sorry [anon_$073] you are there Sorry [anon_$073] [pause] I didn't think you're with us. You want to take this one [anon_$073] [laughs] he's in America So the the um [pause] the proposal I think came through [anon_INST161] and the external member [anon_$060] about um +that was +yeah that was sorry [anon_$073] that was [anon_FN100] um [anon_SN45] of [anon_EV25] he's not a member of the [anon_INST91] But is a member of the arts and culture advisory group. So I took the motion of a !unclear/! acutely as um looking for venues for young artists for the [anon_EV25] Sorry, [anon_$073] no problem. Uh to to in some way, um you know, fast track planning [pause] around you know the use of spaces, which, which may have a different use. So for example, resume for retail, [breath in] um and there is provision, uh and I say this informally, to for the [anon_INST86] to to enter into partnership with with groups around spaces. However, you know, I I do think it's a planning issue. And I asked [anon_FN100] at the time to perhaps do some research or send me, you know, uh what she thought wo=would be the condition that we could work under. And I started to make inquiries because [anon_PL41] is where she quoted uh where it would be, but it it's a planning issue and change of views is uh is a problem, if if people go in if an owner wants to use something for cultural use if he was on for something else, but I don't think it's insurmountable. And I started to to talk to the planning uh officers about that. Am however, uh I think the the wholesale use of empty spaces very quickly, for the art is a challenge um for all for all kinds of reasons, mainly uh due to due to the ownership of those buildings. And if the council become involved, how how indeed the commercially can change the value very quickly. Um so uh I can all I can really say is that I need to do a bit more work on it and to consult upon [tech noise] Thank you, [anon_$073] as a number of speakers just reminder to speakers that you've got 90 seconds uh on a motion. So first, we have Councillor [anon_$037] [breath in] uh thank you very much chair. I very much support uh [anon_$060] motion. And I think one of the ways of doing this that I would suggest to him if he agrees that maybe you would amend that to the working group is established uh to find ways of doing that. So I mean, I think there's nothing better than having members of the [anon_INST91] and the staff working together and for the planning department to find um um imaginative way to deal with you know, these kinds of temporary changes [tech noise] Thank you counc= um [anon_$062] please? [silence] um thanks chair just to support wholeheartedly uh [anon_$060] um motion here. I mean, just to put quickly to him because I think we've been having this conversation for a little while. It's obviously one of the biggest issues probably the biggest issue that's facing the city and arts communities at the moment, but it does appear that we need dedicated personnel working on this. I know [anon_$073] has his you know, is doing his best and has his hands full with lots of things there. Um I'm not saying that the council should do it all. I think there's an opportunity here for the culture department to come on board, maybe in a one to two year partnership uh could involve the housing departments. There was a recent uh planning workshop that we took [pause] took part in, um and that uh the deputy planner uh uh was in on also, I mean, I I think we, you know, we can all point the finger at the council, it's easy to do, I do it we all do it. But at the end of the day, we want these things to happen, you know. So, um again, maybe a question back to [anon_$073] as well uh and I don't know if you'd be at liberty to answer this. But do you think it would be a good idea to get a government department on board with this, because I think it is yeah their responsibility to provide resources and funding for for such a project to to be ambitious with this and to and to get thanks a million things done ASAP. Councillor [anon_$042] um looks like she's away from her screen. So I'll come back to her Councillor [anon_$032] again, 90 seconds. Thank you, Chair, I just want to support this um this motion and I think it's really very necessary um that we have these cultural spaces um so that we can actually work so people can work in the arts. And I know that [anon_$073]'s been working hard on that I do welcome the the film base and other spaces. But, um you know, we there are, there are vacant spaces, a lot of this in= industrial spaces, there's empty shops. And, you know, I just think that there's often just too many things that prevent these spaces being used. And I know [anon_INST86] previously had a vacant space or um [breath in] workshops and various things. But the spaces that were actually even becoming available had so many restrictions around them, they still had full rates, we were told we couldn't reduce the rates, even though they were able to do that in [anon_PL41,] and we weren't able to do them in [anon_PL42]. And also, there may not be there would maybe be washing our even toilet facilities. And we're told we couldn't open at night. So therefore, as an exhibition space, you know, we couldn't have an opening. So it just didn't make sense. So, um you know, I just think that we need to sort of consult with those that would use the space and just be with the licensing system that you know, we could have it would mean that people wouldn't maybe get tenancy rights on it, that's a concern that people would have, I'm sure we can facilitate it and we can come to a way that works. Um because there's nothing, you know, that brings down an area more than vacant spaces. And if we can have culture and vibrancy in an area, am then it's it's all the better. So I really support this, and um you know, whatever resources that are needed, um I can't expect [anon_$073] thank you Councillor to be doing it all he's doing wonderful work as as it is Thank you, Councillor [pause] um Councillor [anon_$042] are you ready? [silence] no, I'll come back to you uh Councillor [anon_$074] Thank you. Um and I wholeheartedly support this motion. Um I think [tech noise] you know we have talked a lot about meanwhile, news for cultural purposes over the last number of years. And in fairness, I have to commend [anon_$073] and the whole team and the progress that has been made particularly around [anon_PL98] and I feel that's really welcome. Um the= but we do need to and I also support what [anon_$062] is suggesting we need to link in with the government and I wonder as an [anon_INST95] can we agree to write to [anon_INST162] because we do have commitments in the program of government around meanwhile, use and I know that the [anon_INST162] is very keen to start looking at and actively progressing that. So I wonder, can we agree to write to the [anon_INST162] [pause] suggesting a meeting to try and start that conversation? Because it'd be very important that we collaborate on a national local level on this and just in [pause] with particular reference to what we own the [anon_INST163] underneath the the old [anon_INST163] sorry I know it was something else since then in uh in the square underneath [anon_INST164]. We= my understanding is that's within [anon_INST86] ownership is that correct? And that's vacant. Can we not start? Can we not look at that as uh potential space um to support [anon_EV25] and any of the other festivals as a rehearsal space or additional workspace or something? Because it's kind of criminal that's been lying vacant for as long as it has. Thank you. Ah thank you Councillor [anon_$074]. I'll put the question about writing to [anon_INST162] after we agree or disagree the motion whichever happens, uh Councillor [anon_$063] [tech noise] thanks very much chair and thanks to um [anon_$060] for putting this motion down I fully support this and just to pick up on something that Councillor [anon_$037] mentioned around the working group there is an artist workspace subcommittee, um which which is which is now a bit more formalized than it previously was does have representation from the planning department of [anon_INST86] on it, as well as as well as the the development department. So it's it's it's a good uh information space where we where we share information and I think the the the priority of that subcommittee is to is to push exactly what you're talking about is to is to make active use of of derelict and vacant premises ju=just sitting around the city doing nothing. And we know the artist's sector and and and and cultural sector is absolutely starving of of spaces uh to do what they do best. So I think um referring this this this motion to that committee, and seeing what what sort of work can be done am !unclear/! [anon_INST93] and then indeed I agree with Councillor [anon_$074] and [anon_$062] about linking in with, with the relevant government department at a national level as well, just to try and put as much impetus behind this as possible. Thanks very much for the motion again, thanks Councillor, Councillor [anon_$042] [tech noise] thanks somebody called my door working at working from home, and I'm sorry, I didn't get the end of [anon_$074]'s, I didn't get the end of [anon_$073] uh response. But I, I I uh think [anon_$060]'s motion is is an excellent motion. [breath in] [coughs] I would like um to see um us identifying and maybe [anon_$060] could do it um in conjunction with [anon_$073] uh identifying, say [pause] 10 or 20 spaces that might be appropriate and focus in on them. Because no matter how small um the venue, I just know that um providing a space uh for people uh to either rehearse or to perform, uh to make our city alive, alive place, or more lively, lively, a living place can can only be good for the citizens and can only be good for our city. So I I suppose I'd like an answer to could we identify, say 10 or 20 spaces in our ownership? That could be we could target and we could focus in on go raibh math agat cathaoirleach Thank you, Councillor, Councillor [anon_$075] [tech noise] thanks, chair. And um firstly, I just wanna say I wholeheartedly support the motion. Um we've been talking about this for a long, long time, um as long as I've been on the committee and also on the advisory group. And I think it's, it's, [breath out] it's urgent now, it's not just something to keep talking about [breath out] and, as other speakers have said, it goes across [pause] several different departments and indeed, the government should be involved as well. And I wonder if the task force um under [anon_SN46] even if they could, could target this maybe look at look at as well, I'm just trying to think of some way that we could move this [pause] along, um as opposed to, you know, referring it to [pause] another committee or somewhere else, you know, for report because, let's say, for example, [anon_EV25] happens in September, and [pause] I was gonna raise the issue under under uh monetary support, but you have the artists down in in [anon_PL99] [breath in] being um made homeless. And so it is urgent that's my point, and I think we really need to move on this. Thank you. [tech noise] thanks, Councillor, Councillor [anon_$065] Uh thanks very much chair. Am uh and thanks very much for the the motion. Um I just want to wholeheartedly support it it makes eminent sense. And I think um uh I would go along with Councillor [anon_$037 ] in terms of maybe working group to have a look at it with the various interests or priorities, but also in the=Councillor [anon_$042] in terms of identifying a few specific ones to get moving on. If there was a uh uh couple of early wins on this um it would be excellent. Um provided tenancy, health and safety and insurance an issues are addressed. I can't see why we can't make this happen. Thanks. Thank you, Councillor and final speaker. Councillor [anon_$058] [breath out] Yeah, no, look, listen, every every point that I was gonna make has been made, and more so um I just want to wholeheartedly support to support this motion [anon_$060] and well done. It's an excellent motion. Thank you. Okay, thank you very much, Councillor. Um so [anon_$060] I'll bring you back in in a moment. Um the the so there's a a few things have come up. So I'm going to just lay them out um as I see them. Um first is uh the motion and whether that motion should be referred to the workspaces um subcommittee. [breath in] um we also have the suggestion of identifying and prioritizing a number of units or spaces, to be prioritized in the work of of determining the the meanwhile use um scheme [coughs] or whatever you want to call it. And then finally, whether we should write to the [anon_INST167] to look for um a department to engage with us on it. Those are the three things I'm hearing from the debate. Um uh does any management want to come in before I go to [anon_$060]? Um just to say that the uh E=formally !unclear/! [anon_INST153] space chair will will become part of an open call. Uh I think around September, it needs a big clean out. And it it would, uh it would have temporary use meanwhile, use is not a planning term. It's more of an aspirational term that people use around the arts. It it it's temporary use I've already written to [anon_SN47] about [anon_INST153] and she's suggesting the potential of a partnership. But if we don't a big point I want to make we don't own spaces [pause] it's very difficult. A lot of them are [anon_PL100] the core 1000s of euro uh to refurbish them [coughs] Units like that. And there= and there are a lot of issues around uh ... around nighttime use that and and security around those venues. There's a a lot of issues. But al= also um like some some of the councillors raised um no, why can't we just simply get all those empty spaces and move on to the [tech noise] arts that discussion has gone on for at least the 10 years [laughs] I've been in council. Uh it it is not simple we can't say for granted at !unclear/! properties and say these properties are going to change their economic value to the owner and be moved over to the arts, like in the case of [anon_PL101] And just to say, the good news here, there is going to be you know, 14 spaces that at [anon_PL101] uh we're going to have you know, temporary use of eight, nine [anon_PL98], [anon_INST163] will come you know, into into the mix, as will film base of the 1500 spaces we think are required, we might be able to get 200 uh across the line the next couple of years, that that's the scale that we're dealing with. And I think we need to move from the aspirational, we need more spaces, to just as uh people have said to identifying spaces, but also we need to work with the property department and the development department to make sure that these are spaces that we want to acquire, or that we can develop a you know, a proper commercial relationship with the case of [anon_PL101] we are subsidizing the rents directly through [anon_PR59 because owners simply won't give their spaces over at 50% of rent or 30%, which is what artists can actually afford. [pause] Thanks very much. So I I've laid out what we um [pause] will be agreeing to if we agree this motion. Uh [anon_$060] you have the right to reply, you have 60 seconds. Thank you all for your contributions. In a way. This is a naive motion, which just says there is a problem that can we solve it this way. So I really appreciate everything that uh those who've spoken have added to it don't want to make work for the arts office, but I think they're doing a good job so far so maybe they can increase their capacity. I'm also glad that [anon_$073] mentioned uh [anon_INST163] because we hear your reports on it through the [anon_INST161] and I think that's another indication of the the competence and credibility of the arts officer to do to Councillor [anon_$042] ah yeah, exactly. We can't get everything in one go, we= I think would make more sense to focus on [pause] a smaller number. And precisely as [anon_$073] said, I think the issue is that meanwhile, use has no legal basis. So if we were to establish the capacity for temporary use and and the planning to support that, not only would the [anon_INST93] be able to help people, but people might be able to help themselves in the case where they wanted to change the use, as long as it was clearly spelled out and not uh capable of being abused. I mean, it strikes me it's a bit odd, though that, um you know, you're talking about economic value, but these are these are spaces that it's it's more beneficial for people to lie= leave lying idle for a long time rather than let somebody use it for a short period of time along clearly um clearly established parameters, so. thanks [anon_$060] Thank you. Thank you. Um so just before I ask for the Committee's agreement, can I ask which Minister um may I be writing to? Are we looking for support from arts and culture or from planning and local government? [pause] Or both? Arts and culture Arts and culture Arts and culture okay thank you arts and culture as a start yeah Just checking um thank you very much. Thank you Okay.So if we are to agree this motion, I I will write to [anon_INST162] we will um uh engage with the working group that Councillors [anon_$074] [anon_$063] myself and [anon_$068] were on and um I'm I'm sure that we'll arrange for that working group to report back into um I think we agreed that it will come back to [anon_INST161] but we'll we'll make sure it [tech noise] appears on the [anon_INST91] in the future as well. [breath in] can= are we agreed? Yes. Thank you agreed agreed agreed agreed Thank you, everyone. agreed Our next motion is motion seven, uh submitted by uh Councillor [anon_SN48] who has had to leave the meeting. So I'm happy to move it on his behalf. Um but um I would suggest that we refer it to the commemorations committee. Is that agreed? and I'm happy to second that agreed agreed Just to the point of order am Maureen O'Hara hasn't been dead for long enough. Is that not an issue? Just incase 20 years [tech noise] is she? your point yeah you've got to be dead 20 years Yeah if she hasn't been dead for 20 years [laughs] well it depends if that that's that's for yeah It doesn't apply to everything. So it was there might be [pause] ways we can look at it. But I I'd be be happy to refer to the the committee yeah Thank you, Councillor [anon_$036] Yeah. I think that that debate happens in that forum. yeah So I think it's good for us to to refer it that way. Um and I believe there's a statue of her in [anon_PL78] that needs a home um [laughs] well I think that will make all the difference [laughs] if the money is there to put it up !unclear/! [tech noise] report that that statue is moving. yeah absoultely !unclear/! [laughs] !unclear/! to [anon_PL44] North side It was reported there today, that that the artist wants it moved. So there you go. Yeah. Thank you Councillor um I'm wondering has Councillor [anon_$061] returned? He had to [tech noise] step out of the meeting [pause] no, so Chair hi, can you hear me? yes Oh I can hear you there [anon_$061] do you want to go ahead? Yeah, no thanks for that chair. And thanks for uh delaying the motion there yeah, look, um a motion was passed in, I think it was June of 2018. Uh that [anon_INST86] should try to ah honor and commemorate the struggle of the LGBT uh Q Community. [tech noise] Can you hear me? Yes Yes Just apologies. I'm I'm in transit at the moment. Um and on foot of that motion been unanimously supported by all members of previous uh arts [anon_INST91] a working group was established um which has uh the arts officer, the public arts officer, uh a couple of public representatives, and three uh representatives of constituents, organizations of the LGBTQ community. So what I'm seeking to do today chair um is to reconstitute that working group because that has met over the uh four years since that motion was proposed and passed [baby crying] and was doing some good work. The local elections in 2019, did um uh interrupt the work. And then, of course, the pandemic [baby crying] kicked in uh less than a year later. [baby crying] so look uh with the permission members the support of the members and it's obviously open to ye, [baby crying] because you're the members in terms of how to reconstitute the the working group. But I do think it's important that uh because all of the uh the members of the the working group that was set up are keen uh to to move it along and actually progress and realize uh that motion [baby crying] from 2018 so that is [baby crying] uh there we want to I've got a screaming child in the car apologies. [laughs] I'm looking to reconstitute [baby crying] the working group and um [baby crying] progress the work along so that we can actually have physically and uh [baby crying] fully honor the LGBT communities struggling [baby crying] for full equality in [anon_PL42] yeah we need it Thanks chair. thanks Councillor [anon_$061] second that yeah Great, tha=thanks, everyone. I would just like to get a brief update from the manager who um was going to look into this, I think, [anon_$076] or uh [anon_$073] just to say uh chair, we had a very successful consultation with the LGBTQI plus community in recent weeks, uh where they they have to head off now and begin to look at a brief for uh the kind of work of art, they may want to see a possible location within the city. Uh this is the beginning of creating value this happens around for example, happening around the decorative commemoration uh committee as well. It is important to say too, that it it's quite a diverse community, you know, to state the obvious. Uh and there are lots of issues around safety, for example of the LGBTQ community, which came through in that consultation, uh and they they would want it located in central there, and that the central part of the city, and that provides particular challenges to find that that kind of location, they also need to unify their brief uh because each part of that community, he has a very different point of view as to what they're what they're looking for. And I think that it'd be, it'd be great for their organizations to work closely together first, before a brief could um could come in. And that's what we agreed with them that they would do. And they'll be back to us in a couple of months. or [anon_$073] Thank you. So uh I think this is agreed agreed yeah agreed yeah thank you. Um but members, I did make a mistake I should have asked before quarter past if people were happy to extend the meeting. We're not going to get through the agenda in the next six minutes. Can I extend the meeting? Uh until 11:45? Agreed Agreed yeah yeah agreed Thank you. Um we have done with our motions. So we move on to item nine, um which is the collections management policy. This has been drafted by [anon_$077] CEO of [anon_INST165] Um and if we are to adopt this um draft, it will go to the city council uh for uh adoption. And so [anon_$077] would you like to introduce it and we can take any questions or suggestions? Yeah, thanks very much, Councillor. Just to clarify, I didn't draft it at all, I was in a working group of um people from all of the relevant sections who um have a remit on collections in the [anon_INST93] and together, we uh worked through this and drafted this together. So it's not just my work. [tech noise] um the idea was that looking at some of the collections, am particularly that have um you know um policies that dictate how to [pause] care for them um collect them, add to them, dispose of them. There were other collections that uh weren't covered by specific individual policies. So the idea was to make a policy um for collections management that was uh for the all all of the council and all of the relevant um sections and then obviously there's still within particular project and sections um additional policies and supporting policies to make the council work in the area of best practice around this kind of thing. Thank you very much. Uh I would just like to mention that when I first became a councillor, it was brought up that there was um the need for an acquisitions policy uh within the council, because there was lots of offers of things coming through. It's great to see that um within this document, um and um uh I I think it sets out a very good process for um loans and everything else as well. Does anyone want to come in? Or can we take this as adopted and send it to council? [pause] Excellent. Thank you [sneezes] agreed agreed yeah looks like not. Thank you very much a vote so that's item nine done. Um and item 10 Is the report on the um [paper shuffling] the impact study that we previously had a presentation on. [pause] [tech noise] uh agreed yeah uh sorry go ahead That's me again [tech noise] and again, this is just an example of uh another piece of work that was done uh with uh all of our colleagues across numerous sections in the [anon_INST166] and actually uh outside of the [anon_INST166] in relation to um uh creative engagement and cultural engagement, and just the impact of not only people's relationships with the [anon_INST93] as a result of these kinds of programs, but also with with culture and with their city in a general way. This is just a research um project to underpin some of the things especially that this [anon_INST91] very well, and that many of the sections in the [anon_INST91] work this way and prioritize this kind of work um know very well and to confirm that that more work like this is uh of interest to the council and to the staff and the council, but also to the participants. And theres a lot of shared values around um participation and community engagement uh with the work that [anon_$057] was talking about uh the beginning of this [anon_INST91] And just to say also that the uh the principle of the study and and conducting a study like this about impact on citizenship, and active citizenship through culture, um has had [anon_PL44] um shortlisted, there's another process to go through but shortlisted as one of the top 50 global uh activities in the area of of cultural democracy and empowerment. So these are all really good uh signs for the work that everybody's doing. Thank you very much, [anon_$077] would anybody like to come in? [silence] Um I I would just like to uh pick out uh within the !unclear/! actions or recommendations, um there is mention of a working group being established to record and measure outcomes from projects and to develop a toolkit um together. Um I would just like to um maybe suggest if any members of the [anon_INST91] will be interested in getting involved in that maybe they can contact you [anon_$077] [pause] Yes, that would be fantastic. Thanks. [breath in] fantastic. Thank you very [pause] much. We will [shuffles paper] sorry need to go back a page um we move on to item 11, which is the management update. [shuffles paper] [pause] Oh, I'll take questions first ah Councillor [anon_$058] Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's just about it's actually since the meeting uh started. A couple of constituents have have emailed me. And it's about a=active travel, I suppose it it mentions active travel in the management reports so that the the people that were there from that might be able to answer this. Um with the pedestrianisation of uh [anon_PL102] these constituents that they had a bit of trouble over the weekend, with motorized uh couriers, you know, uh food couriers and all that, you know, um they were told that that that's okay, they can use [anon_PL102] and I I don't know, is that the case? And does anyone know from the [anon_INST167] Is that the case? Or? Im sorry Councillor [anon_$058] I I think that's a matter for the transport [anon_INST91] or maybe the area committee. Well, it's its about active travel and theres active travel in the management report. [tech noise] [pause] For people getting out and traveling and and being healthy, [tech noise] and if the street has been pedestrianized, what what are the view of the people here from active travel? What's their view on on the pedestrianisation [paper shuffling] of [anon_PL102] as far as active travel goes, and people with disabilities and older people and all being able to use it because I've seen guards stop people on [anon_PL103] before that are cycling up. They've asked them to get off the road to get get off the bikes, but I don't think they're barred. But I do see guards asking them to get off their cycles and motorized ones now. okay And what's the situation in um in in [anon_PL102] but I think okay a fair point for this committee so we'll we'll take all the questions. I'm a member of the [anon_INST167] and it=what has been agreed on what is in place as a traffic free [anon_PL102]. It's not pedestrianised but if management wish to respond, and they can, Councillor [anon_$042] Go raibh math agat cathaoirleach. Look, um uh I'm to looking I hope I'm on the right report, the community monuments formed update, is that in the report? [pause] Yeah, I just wonder um what happens to the [anon_PL85] graveyard application under string one and string two. Um there's lots of money gone to uh St. James's church and graveyard and there's lots of money going to St Cansus graveyard, in [anon_PL55]. I know our own application in um [anon_PL44] in in [anon_PL85] for um St. Athens Church and graveyard failed but uh what happened to the [anon_PL85] graveyard graveyard um application to community monuments fund from streams one and two, why have we got no money? Is is is it that the people who submitted the application weren't qualified uh to uh dot all the i's and cross all the t's. It's hugely disappointing that we didn't get money from that application, from that um from that fund, because there seems to be a hell of a lot of money available. Uh and the nor= we didn't get any in the north central area. Thanks. Thanks, Councillor [anon_$042] Councillor [anon_$032] and then I'll bring in the managers? Yeah [coughs] [S032] I was going to ask some similar question [backround talk] about the the heritage grants. And um maybe it's in a different stream, maybe we still have an opportunity to apply for that, because I know we got the conservation uh report, and we we hired a conservation [breath in] [pause] architect to to work on on on putting in that application. So I suppose I just wanted to ask um [pause] about that. Um I just wanted to ask as well about um the uh the [anon_PR60] uh the launch of the strategy in quarter two, when are we going to um when are we going to get that and also the per=that a preferred bidder has been identified for the annual [anon_EV26] on behalf of [anon_INST86]. Could we just have a little bit more about that. And what it's, you know, it seemed to be very previously it became very sort of a central base thing and all around the city, and you know, not so much about, you know, actual Bram Stoker and I I suppose the location and and more sort of an extended thing around the idea of Bram Stoker and I'm just wondering, you know, where we're going with that I could have a little bit more detail on that. Thanks. Thanks, Councillor [anon_$065] Uh thanks very much. And thanks for the report. Just one thing I just wanted to raise in relation to the [anon_INST168] we were fortunate enough in [anon_PL104] to to get one of those sculptures ah by [anon_SN49] but um uh and it was at the launch of it when the [anon_INST89] launched it. But I just noticed um recently that I know while trees were cut back around it. Um there is the the uh there is a likelihood that those trees are going to obscure it again, in the not too distant future. And I'm just wondering in relation to the positioning of it now, um or the positioning or the trees, is is there some sort of tree management uh plan in place so that the the sculpture won't be overshadowed in [pause] the coming year or years? Thank you. [pause] [breath in] Thank you very much, everyone. I can't see any more questions. Uh just from the um management report. I'd like to highlight how great it is to see so many new parks. Um I was at [anon_PL105] opening and [anon_PL106] opening and I think the greening, and the play areas that we're getting out of those um are excellent or spaces for people to to gather um and things like that, I see Councillor [anon_$075] has come in, and then I'll go to management. Thanks, chair, um sorry for late coming in there um had my hand up earlier. Um just two things I wonder, could the uh manager make a comment on? One is the um the artist space in um [anon_PL99] and his reply to uh the artists there and just um his reply gave absolutely no hope and uh for future or for any spaces to be made available, and maybe he might like to comment on that. And then also just um I welcome the updates uh the library service uh fantastic what they're doing, but I just want to raise the issue of [anon_INST169] and being left uh closed. And [pause] am really, our libraries are the cornerstone of arts and culture in any area in any city. Um but just to have that lying, um empty and closed really is is is a disgrace. And I'd like them to comment on that. Thank you. Thank you, okay. We've wrapped up a good few questions but I'll take one more from Councillor [anon_$063]. Um thank you very much, Chair. Yeah, just similar to Councillor [anon_$075] [breath in] get a get a bit of a response and feedback from the manager am his response which is was publicly aired on social media in the media regarding [anon_PL99] um we just you know, we heard previously in this meeting that the devastation facing many artists across the city and their their their need to try and find suitable accommodation and space to do what they do best and you know that's that's one group out of out of hundreds across the city 1000s even who are in desperate need of of space and you know, they're engaging with with senior management of the [anon_INST86a] at a high level look looking for support um admittedly you know, tempers can flare at times and maybe on both sides the the the way they conducted themselves wasnt great but but [anon_$033] [anon_$033]'s response in particular was really really poor. I wonder if he could, if he could respond to that and just try and allay the concerns of of many artists who are watching in and and in need of, of much needed support from [anon_INST86a] something in particular, Sorry for going on in his in his response itself he said it's not a core function of [anon_INST86a] [pause] And I know all of us in this committee would be would be really concerned with that we know it's not the day to day bread and butter but it should absolutely be part of building a more sustainable and um better [anon_PL44] that we all want to live in. Thanks very much for letting me back in chair Thanks, everyone. Am I we have+ +I've a point of information chair [pause] go ahead Yeah, no, just [pause] and I I want to see this uh I want to see the [anon_PL99] uh project pushed till we buy it. And you know, what, I don't know if it's a good idea that we'd be discussing this um in public, if we are going to, because I just think that might impede us then and the price could go up if it if there's if there's a demand issue. And I don't see the if we want to really get a building, you know, get it down. That's what we want to see at the end. I don't know if it's a good idea to be. But it's a commercial thing. And I don't know if it's a good idea to be pushing di=discussing this in public. But that that's my uh [tech noise] Thanks Councillor [anon_$058] uh I I agree with you on that point. So we we won't go into [pause] that kind of detail, I don't think um I've got [anon_$078] from events and [anon_$071] from parks with me here. So we might start with those. Yeah, thanks Chair. Just in relation to the [anon_EV26] we're, as I said in the report, we currently have identified a preferred bidder. [breath in] So we're currently in in contract negotiations with uh tho=the the event organizers. Um so I can't really give too much detail of what we're doing um [pause] this year. But I hope to have those um [pause] those contracts signed soon. And then once those contracts are signed, we'll give out the information then of the event. [tech noise] Thank you, um [anon_$071] about the uh monuments I think. Yep. [coughs] Sorry, the uh [anon_PL85] cemetery. Um I I'm not quite clear on the the specific reasons why we didn't get funding on that. But obviously there's a there's a pot of money to go between the various um applications. Um but I'll see if there's uh any reasons why we didn't get it in particular for for [anon_PL85]. Uh Councillor [anon_$065] mentioned as well. That uh [anon_PL104] the trees there. We'll have we'll have a look at that. And um Councillor [anon_$032] [coughs] mentioned the the [anon_PR60] conservation research strategy, [coughs] which we hope to launch in q2 or early q3. Um so that that will be um published. Uh thank you very much. Um would another manager like to come in ... to respond to some of those questions? Happy to Thank you, [anon_$033]. Um yeah so really in in relation to it um we uh query from a couple of councillors asking us to uh investigate the acquisition following a motion that was passed at the north central area committee. Uh I instructed the city valuer, to engage with the receiver [tuts] um which is what he is doing at this point in time. Um, and I then received a number of emails across last weekend. Uh and or shall we say, for fear of receiving a whole host more I shut it down. Maybe my language was a little less than subtle. But the point is, uh we are engaging with the receiver if we do happen to acquire that will then be I can't acquire it and get effectively gift it [tech noise] to an organization without the process. And that was the point that I was trying to make and because as [anon_$073] said, there are 1500 artist spaces required in the city [background noise] And you know you might say people uh can sympathize with the circumstance they find [tech noise] that if we if if we are all the time going to go after um building owners, and potentially doing it in public. No building owner will, in anybody offer and be employed use. Um so from my perspective, uh I'm honoring the motion that was passed at the North !unclear/! by engaging with uh through the valuer with the receiver. And uh as a couple of councillors that the less discussion about this, the better because it can have uh you might say demand side impacts, which will push up whatever price uh the receiver might be looking for. So like, uh nothing further really to add to it, other than uh [tech noise] I responded to a number of emails, and and uh you might say, yeah, if people took offence I apologize for that, but I needed to shut it down, to enable me to engage in a process. Now, if people want to share emails that I sent on Twitter to try to come after me, that's fine. But it it doesn't serve the the purpose or goal in any way? But uh so I'm not going to comment further on it. Uh and um I'm quite happy to leave it there [siren] Thank you. Uh there was a question by [anon_INST169]. And I think we've got [anon_$067] with us. Yeah. Can you hear me chair? Yes, [anon_$067].Thank you. Okay, morning, I suppose just to to um let the [anon_INST91] know that we closed [anon_INST169] in all good faith, because we had serious access issues and um conditions of the building were very poor, unfortunately, um really, due to inflation. Um the costs skyrocketed. And under procurement rules. Once that happened. Um we were obliged to to stop um I have to say that we have um moved in temporarily to [anon_PL107] and working with colleagues in the [anon_INST165]. And I was actually out there last week. And it's going from strength to strength, a little library and working really well. And lots of nice programs, both in the space and outside and around the space. And also just to assure people that meetings are ongoing on um the new library proposed for [anon_PL108] road um or [anon_PL109] estate as as uh people want to call it. So um that's where it's at chair. Hope that that helps. [silence] Thank you. [anon_$067] Um were there any questions unanswered? I think we might have gotten all them. Yeah, no, just chair my my initial question about the active travel because I think we are a leisure and health and and uh [anon_$091] And I just feel we should have a view on whether um pe=motorized vehicles can use uh a Im sorry Councillor Im going to disagree I think this is a matter it's a matter for the the transport [anon_INST91]+ +without the but we don't do we we so were we have an active travel presentation that was in the wrong place, was it? [whispers] !unclear/! No we we have an active living an active cities not active travel. There's an active travel working group under the transport [anon_INST91] and the the presentation we had earlier. [whispers] active cities I agree. I agree with the chair its a matter for the transport comittee. Thank you. I've got Councillors [anon_$061] and uh I've got [anon_$062]. Are these new questions? Chair. Yeah, just one point, I will make it briefly, uh I wasn't going to come in on this but I was sent it was forwarded on to me the response that [anon_$033] had uh formulated and actually pressed the send button on. And I just I won't get into the wider issues, because I agree with some of the points that were made in terms of changing the uh dynamics. But I do think that the language that uh senior executives use uh is very important. And to my mind. Like, [anon_$033] I I don't know what you were thinking in in terms of communicating in that fashion. Uh because what it does to my mind is it just sends out a message that [anon_INST86] are out of touch or that they're, uh you know, feel a bit superior, perhaps, and it underminds I just I make this one point, it actually undermines the very good work that's been done by many people uh who work for [anon_INST86] in the communities and in the different sections, and it just Thank you Councillor causes such an uproar and for all. Thanks chair thank you and uh [anon_$062] Yeah, just to uh just to come in um [tech noise] it's actually in relation to something [tech noise] [anon_$033] and [anon_$073] [tech noise] both said in in relation to uh 1500 artists spaces been been needed. Um I mean, I gotta say, wh=when [anon_$073] said, [pause]we could provide 200 In the next few years, I mean, that's a little bit deflating. Um there is a space that could provide hundreds if not more, and that's the digital hub. And I think we need to have serious conversations am the [anon_INST170] will have u=ultimate control and say over what happens there with the chief executive. Um [anon_SN040] is on the board at the digital hub. And I think that's a, that's a conversation we need to start seriously in terms of that space. That could be the answer uh to a lot of the city's um uh crisis around space right now just another thanks [anon_$062] yeah just one quick observation in relation to the [anon_INST169]. At the moment, it appears the best current suggestion is that it turns into a visitor center, essentially, which is prioritizing the [pause] apparent needs of tourists over locals, you know, um and I think that's something that needs to be queried and questioned and scrutinized in terms of what that space might become in the future uh Thank you [anon_$062] We've come to the end of the um time we allocated for the meeting um so uh and I think we've had answers to all the questions raised uh under the [pause] manager's report. Can we quickly um note all of the minutes that are the remaining items on the agenda? agreed noted yeah noted Can I ask a question? Ah chair, just one thing about something? go ahead It's about the naming. [S053] go ahead It's about the naming and commemorations committee. Go ahead Councillior [anon_$042] Maybe the chair, the chair, when is the next meeting [anon_$036]? And [pause] did you get my email about uh the park beside uh [anon_PL110] and [anon_PL111] the residents have agreed uh [anon_PL112] as the name just wonder, can I give them an update when are we having our next meeting? um that's=you said that in advance of the last meeting, I think did you? no no the las= no, it's it's it's only it's it's since the last meeting [anon_$036] Oh right I did. I did get it yeah. I don't have the date uh to hand but I will get it to Go raibh math agat cathaoirleach go raibh math agat failte failte thank you Thank you, everyone um for getting through that we really hope that our next meeting which will be in July will be um in the council chambers. [tech noise] Uh and I'll get to meet some of you for the first time [breath out] face to face. Uh but for now, I hope everyone has an enjoyable week and uh maybe gets time to visit [anon_PL113] for the [anon_EV27] that's happening there at the moment. And the winner of the um literary prize will be announced um very soon. Um and uh loads of events are happening this week. Thanks everybody. Thanks Thanks chair Thank you bye Thanks chair bye thanks all Okay, I'll take silence as uh no items outstanding uh can I have a proposer for the minutes, please? [anon_$081]. Thank you seconder [anon_$122], thank you very much. Okay, I have two items under chairperson's business. One is a a letter to [anon_INST162] as per Councillor [anon_$081]'s motion that was passed at our last meeting. That letter was sent on the 22nd of June, asking him that uh he amends the housing miscellaneous provisions act 2019. For those people who just fall outside the cusp of income thresholds, but were previously on our list, I've had no response to that. The second item uh on chairperson's business is again, a follow up of our discussion on travel accommodation and the motion that Councillor [anon_$085] brought to the last meeting. So we did indicate that um myself as chair, former Lord Mayor, uh [anon_FN112] to [anon_$082] and [anon_$084] and would have a meeting uh to look at the recommendations that uh Councillor [anon_$085] and [anon_INST192] put forward. So what we agreed at that meeting was that we would ha= we would take the travel accommodation reports out of the housing supply report, it's there every month, but we're going to separate it out. And it will be a standalone item on our bimonthly agenda, where we look at uh technical issues, that the there was a request [tech noise] around the the reconfiguration of the [anon_INST192] but um you will note on the the briefing note that we sent around that that is actually in legislation, so we can't amend it. However, there is a recommendation uh there that the local travel accommodation consultative committees would be replaced by travel accommodation strategic policy committees um so I wrote to [anon_INST162] as [anon_$080] asking him for timelines on the implementation of that recommendation, and I I have no responses back. So we are going to follow up uh with the [anon_INST192] about I suppose allowing recordings of those meetings we're conscious, however, of some traveler representatives may may inhibit them from from speaking, uh if they if they know it's being recorded. So we're going to talk in a one to one just to suss out um how those representatives feel about that change. And then as you've noted, we've also put the the minutes um and the report of the [anon_INST192] on our agenda for our bi-monthly meetings. And in order to have fairness for I suppose traveller accommodation, homelessness and our housing supply we'll rotate how they appear in the agenda first, second, third. So today, we're putting traveller accommodation up the top and it'll go to number two, and and like that, so so everybody uh feels that they're being treated fairly. Is that okay with anybody or has anybody any questions on that? That report would have been the report of that meeting would have been circulated after we had it, it was on the 28th of June. Councillor [anon_$081]. Tha= thanks for that I appreciate you making those changes, and updating us on on a lot of work you've done behind the scenes. Are th= are these reports up for discussion now? [pause] In in what sense, Councillor [anon_$081]? like, wi= like there's there's just some questions I have on on some of the detail just to tease out some of the detail is it is it appropriate now?+ =on the traveller accommodation report? Yeah yeah, I I that's gonna be our next agenda item number three. So [anon_$084] is going to give the presentation on the report, and then we'll treat it like any other item on the agenda ![unclear]/! okay many thanks thanks for that yeah no problem If I may [anon_$080]. Just to raise a point in relation to the+ =yeah [anon_$082] + raise a point in relation to thank you very much [anon_$080] um it's just in relation to the uh I suppose the reluctance for individuals to be recorded, you know, during meetings, we have the same phenomena in relation to the joint policing committees and indeed local area policing committees as well. [breath in] And, you know, and, you know, I'd be concerned, you know what I mean, that, you know, people would feel intimidated, you know, in in in a democratic process when they're representing communities. But I think we should find some way around it, because I think it's really important that these meetings be transparent and that they be open to the public, for many, many reasons, do you know what I mean because we have to confront those fears, and we also have to confront any kind of intimidation. Uh and and I do support the idea of speaking to somebody privately in relation to a private matter, but I certainly hope that we would be able [tech noise] I certainly hope that we would be able to um to record those meetings because I think I think it's really important um for, you know, for visibility in relation to these particular issues. Thank you [anon_$080] Yeah, I I agree [anon_$082] I think as councillors we're all very used to being recorded and being open and being represented, but but other people may not feel so so we will give as much confidence [tech noise] uh and empowerment [tech noise] to individuals as we can. So are we okay to move on to uh, the next item? And just my apologies, I forgot to note apologies. So I have uh apologies from Councillor [anon_$123] She's going to be late coming into the meeting. And I'm not sure [anon_$083], if you've received any other apologies? uh ![unclear]/! just late coming into the meeting more than likely as well. Okay, thanks very much. Okay. Item three there on the agenda over to you [anon_$084] for the traveler accommodation report. Um hi, everybody. Thanks for the opportunity. Um the report is there. I'm pretty sure most of you have read it already, so I'm I'm willing to take questions. Okay, perfect uh I have [anon_$081]. Okay, many thanks. Thanks for putting this on the agenda. It's great to have it in in as a priority on the agenda. hope it stays that after this [anon_INST91]. Many thanks to you, [anon_$080] for ensuring that happens. Just a few items there. [anon_$084] if I may. Um I read with interest what [anon_PL146if maybe you could update us any progress there. I know we had a a pretty serious bump on the road around the flooding issue. Maybe if there's been any progress made on that and also accessing properties to uh move the residents off site to facilitate the the redevelopment there the essential redevelopment a= [pause] Thank you uh Councilllor+ = and also is there. [pause] Sorry Sorry I thought you had stopped there. My internet connection went my apologies Councillor [anon_$080] carry on. [pause] Okay, sorry um also is is there a move to put the ethnicity of travelers on the housing application forms if it's not already on it. If you could clarify, I read with interest today the report with the budget drawdowns from the different local authorities if you could clarify, [anon_$084], how much of the budget was drawn down by [anon_PL44]? Um and also do we have uh a consultation model for engaging with uh the traveling community when we're carrying out redevelopment or providing housing? My final question is the [anon_PL59] site, it says path that it cannot be fulfilled. If you could clarify what exactly that means? And what what what have we in store for that site? Are we going to develop it for accommodation? Or is it simply going to be kept uh for for the for the duration of the COVID emergency um for families who wish to isolate maybe if you clarify that [anon_$084]. And just to maybe just to thank you and all your staff for the hard work you do. I know it's not an easy job. It's a difficult job. And that uh you have our support in in in wh= in your work, and we look forward to working with you and developing these essential issues. Thank you Councillor [anon_$081] Councillor [anon_ $085]. Uh thank you uh likewise, same. uh if we could have some uh clarification on the [anon_ PL59] it's unclear. So it's it can't be fulfilled now, but will it be? So will it be kept? And when [anon_PR70] takes it then wi= will we be able to develop it as a site for travelers? uh so yeah, uh clarification on that. uh thank you. Thank you very much. I've no hands uh showing now. So I'll go back to you coun= uh actually I have Councillor [anon_$086] there has just come in so I'll go to Councillor [anon_$086] before I go back to you, [anon_$084]. Yeah, [tech noise] sorry for the delay um I I just want to know um ha= has the report by uh the [anon_INST193] [anon_FN113] last month, and the recommendations in it has that been taken into account? And it would seem and perhaps you could correct me, but that local authorities don't seem to specifically identify traveler families in need of accommodation, as is repo= in the report. Can you just explain that perhaps a bit more. Thank you. Thank you, I'll go back to [anon_$084] before I take uh the other hands. Thank you. Okay, um just in relation to [anon_PL146] um [anon_$088] might be more ofay we've given up uh a report on that just in relation to the properties. [breath in] We are currently in negotiation to buy five properties for residents on [anon_PL146], and uh we would be hoping that they will be closed in a relatively short period of time. [breath in] um but again, we're we're at the we're at the mercy of the the solicitors on on on that the the vendor solicitors on that. Um there are a number of properties which we're looking at from the social housing uh side from the the local area office. So those are those are being pushed forward as well. [breath in] The ethnicity on the forms um [pause] there have been uh a number of issues with this and one of them was the fact that uh quite a number of travelers did not want to be identified as travelers. Um now that's again something that we're looking at, and I think we've already made some changes to the form there, [anon_$088] might be, again, a bit more ofay with that. [breath in] um how much of the draw down [anon_INST86] have drawn down approximately 75 between 75 and 79% of of of the funding um since 2008. [breath in] What I would say is that they've changed the department have changed the way funding is allocated um last year, and last year, we drew down 95% of the the funding and the further 5% was drawn down early in 2021. So uh are the allocation that we we were the allocation we were given in 2020 was fully drawn down. [breath in] um in regards to consultation, we generally we we do cons= consult with all travelers [breath in] um in relation to what's going on on on the sites and and the regeneration on the sites [breath in] um we're we're we're looking at improving it all the time. So uh that's something we're just constantly working on. With regard to the [anon_ PL59] site, we had issues with the uh the locals, uh in that the connection to the main sewer was uh a private connection. [breath in] And they refused to allow us to to access that connection. So we did a number of investigations to try and find if there was another connection or the next nearest and closest connection. The next nearest and closest connection is like almost a half a kilometer away um on both sides of it on on both sides of of the [anon_PL59] site. There is a there is a connection [coughs] um from the site directly across the road into the main into the main sewer, but it falls short um I don't know whether people know but the main sewer line on the [anon_PL59] actually goes through the houses that are opposite the [anon_PL59] site um it goes through their gardens. So it would cause major disruption for for uh us [breath in] uh to go in and make the connection, uh the make that connection. So the easiest and most cost effective uh way of doing it would be to connect on the [anon_PL59] uh sorry, on the [anon_PL147] site. It's not actually on the site, it's on the the public footpath. But as it is a private connection, we can't do anything until [anon_PR20] take it in charge at that time. Once they take it in charge, then we can we can uh apply to them to make a connection and we believe we'd be successful. Um but we have to wait until that's that's taken on with regards to the [anon_INST193]. We're looking at the report in depth and we want to see exactly what can be done to try and implement changes there [breath in] um I think that's I think that's all the questions I've been asked. Thank you [anon_$084] I've three other hands. So Councillor [anon_$087] then Councillor [anon_$088] and then Councillor [anon_$045]. Um thank you, [anon_$084], and thank you like, we very much recognize that you're doing good work and difficult work um in advancing these projects. So uh thank you. Um just a question. I noticed in the report there was mention of a project in the preliminary stages in the northern fringe, and I'm just curious to hear a little bit more about that if you could possibly tell me a little bit more. Thank you, Councillor [anon_$087] [tech noise] Councillor [anon_$088] [pause] Thanks very much. [coughs] and again, I'm just so um appreciative of the work that's been done so far. I know um um [anon_$089] and [anon_$084], you've been doing some work up in [anon_PL96] and [anon_PL148] and the whole community is very appreciative of that, because we've really had some appalling conditions there as as well as in other parts of uh the city and the country. [breath in] So this is a really important issue. My two questions are um sanitation units there's talk about in the report of sanitation units going in and I did hear feedback that you know, uh uh that sanitation unit is like something you'd see at a festival. And I just want to know, the modern sanitation units, you know, do they have heating Are they like something you'd see at uh a rock festival? Or are they you know, suitable for for um suitable facilities? And then the second question I have is [pause] the cost of mobile homes and um and uh you know, similar um structures uh have gone through the roof apparently in the last while, mostly because of COVID people are wanting to get extra space and extra um um uh homes mobile homes. So I just want to know is that affecting um progress going forward? Thank you. Thank you very much, coun=councillor [anon_$045] Thanks [anon_$080] um [anon_$083] just in regard to the budget. So I've noticed from the budgets over the last number of years that there's a heavy whack of the traveller accommodation budgets being spent on waste removal and I know it's been brought at the [anon_INST192] In regard to it um have we got any plans to engage in waste management in terms of um the removal of rubbish from sites because the amount of money that we are spending on the traveler specific accommodation budget, it's being spent in areas that are traveler specific, but you know, what other departments [tech noise] of [anon_INST86] [tech noise] should be picking up the the ![unclear]/! in my opinion, in terms of um i= in terms of waste management a= and removal of, of rubbish, as well um [cough] and on the ombudsman uh report, uh as well um you know, the the conditions that that have been described from the ombudsman report um you know, are very, very serious. And I think that we should be looking at at [anon_INST86] ]coming back out, um fairly quickly in terms of response from that, considering that we have got structures in place through the [anon_INST192] um [anon_$080] [cough] another recommendation as well might be that the [anon_INST192] meeting has been moved ![unclear]/! it's every three months now. And that the [anon_INST192] might happen before um the [anon_INST91] meeting happens, because this means that we are going to be in a position where um we're [tech noise] three months already behind on a report that we're going to receive to the [anon_INST91] um and I know I think the LT= we we're due for [anon_INST192] tomorrow, um which means we're not going to hear again from or the [anon_INST91] won't hear again for another three months so we can have those meetings before um the [anon_INST91] meetings are held. So we're up to date in terms of reports that'd be good as well thanks. Okay, thank you, uh I'm, I've only one more hand showing Councillor [anon_$082] so I'm gonna take uh Councillor [anon_$082] before I revert back to you [anon_$084] Thank thank you very much, [anon_$080] and thank you very much everyone for the contribution, yeah, it's just in relation to the dumping or the waste that has been taken off the sites, I would just like to know whether this waste is domestic waste, you know, ie generated on the sites, or whether it's actually waste being brought to the sites uh in relation to commercial activities. I do note that over the past number of years, there was such activities uh whereby commercial waste was being dumped on these sites and it was costing astronomical sums of money to remove it um and if that is the case, then what kind of investigations are taking place with an Garda Siochana in relation to that what kind of investigations are taking place with the environmental uh departments, and what kind of investigations are taking place, if at all, with the revenue departments, I mean, it would be just be terrible, even if we didn't address this particular issue. There are many, many people uh on on on on traveller haulting sites who basically you know, end up being intimidated and can't report such matters, and indeed I'm aware of staff as well having a difficulty there. But it's something that we simply have to address. And while I'm all in favour of you know modernising, and making up to date, proper accommodation, and including travelers into the mainframe of our housing stock, we also have to address these particular issues, whatever way they fall, uh whether antisocial behavior whether they're direct criminal activity. So I'd like to ask again, the management, what is the nature of this uh waste that they are collecting? Thank you. Thank you, Councillor [anon_$082] uh and back to you [anon_$084] uh and [anon_$089]. Okay, [anon_$089] do you want to come in on any of that first? Um just the couple of quick questions um that I ca= captured [anon_PL146] first, if I can, um in relation to [anon_PL146], we're going at the pace of the regeneration chair, um who is working with us I suppose as everyone is aware, there's a trust issue in terms of rebuilding um trust, in [anon_PL146] and we're working at the pace as the you know, when when uh the travelers themselves are working on what they want from [anon_INST86] They're coming back. So we we haven't had a meeting for in some time. [breath in] But we I checked in last week, and we're ready. We they reckon they will be ready very soon for meeting on that. Um from that we're hoping to build a model of consultation um from the [anon_PL146] region that we will apply to other sites, the ethnicity question we have um uh we did we did uh [anon_INST86] staff lobbied very hard um when there was a review of the national housing needs assessment form. We lobbied very hard to have an ethnic identifier included not just for traveler but for Roma for other ethnic minorities. So that we you know, but it it hasn't been in this one. But we have we're continuing conversations with the [anon_INST83] to see if if it should be in there um in relation to the waste I mean, [anon_$084] has been highly effective. He's run, you know, you yo= regularly is running um bilateral meetings with waste management in terms of um so what we= we've tended to do is stop and search um we sometimes disrupt the supply chain and the supply of um dumping in some of the sites um through waste management through um and through Garda enforcement now [anon_$084] I think you've got about eight convictions in the past year, wasn't it last in last year? nine last year That came that fell out of kind of, yo= you know, that kind of joined up working so that certainly is happening um the cos= mobile homes generally The [anon_INST93] isn't generally responsible for the provision of mobile homes our job is the hard standing. And i= in and when I say our job, that's what we get the funding from from the department, but there is a caravan Loan Scheme um coming and there is we do sometimes buy emergency needs caravans, if there's, you know, special needs, etc. and if for a family, if that changes, we're more than happy to change with it, you know, so it's um and we have done we have invested in somewhere where there's been extremely poor conditions um the sanitation units. They're not any kind of substitution for housing and our job all the time in in traveller accommodation is our focus needs to be on housing and building h= group housing, traveller specific group housing for people um and bays where people prefer it. But you know, modern, you know, um so sanitations they're just uh they they're. They're there, but they're a temporary substitute, we would never consider them a long term option. [anon_$084] I don't think that's yeah [breath in] um just in relation to Councillor [anon_$087] the Northern fringe. um the plans there at the moment are very, very tentative. We're just trying to see what can be done to mitigate against the commercial dumping that is going on out there on site. So I don't really have that much information on it at the moment. In relation to the sanitation units, we have new sanitation units, it was a framework uh developed in 2018. Specifically for sanitation units. um the new sanitation units are slightly bigger, they're a bit more robust. uh and they're there they are of a higher spec. But like [anon_$089] says they are not a substitute for housing, they're a temporary thing. um we our our purpose on this uh particular um issue is is to provide electricity and water services to the travelers out in uh [anon_PL149] and [anon_PL150] there's uh 45 families out there that have, well, they have electricity, but it's unauthorized electricity. So we're in the process of of providing that for them at the moment. While we're doing that, we're also putting in the services for the sanitation units, because to build or to redo the, um the bays or to build houses will take an extraordinarily long time. You know, you'd be talking about four or five years, at least. So in the meantime, what we need to do is make sure that they have adequate services, including toilet shower cooking facilities available to them. And that's what the sanitation unit does. [breath in] um in relation to the cost of mobile homes. They've risen by approximately a third at the moment. And as [anon_$089] so eloquently put it, we do have the emergency grant scheme, we gave out nine last year under under that scheme, or we purchased nine under that scheme. uh the year before we we purchased three under it. At the moment, we have applications for 19 [pause] And we're going through those and we're looking at the most needy. Now there is a cost to [anon_INST86] on that, in that we only get 50% of it back from the department so the council invests 50% of its funding um in in into that um there is a new mobile home scheme. It literally only came on board this week, um [anon_INST86] is part of a pilot scheme, the new caravan Loan Scheme, where the maximum value of a home that can be borrowed against um is is 30,000. um and the the um the residents or the tenants [pause] um will be purchasing this but they will be paying the the loan back to [anon_INST86]. It's heavily subsidized. So it is um it can be a five a five year or seven year loan now. It depends on the ability to pay and it depends on what their are already what their their current outgoings are far, you know um for [pause] rent. So it it will be based on their ability to pay and how much they can pay. um with regard to the waste removal, we've we've done a number of things on the waste removal and and particularly through the the [anon_INST192] uh we do have a a new committee on the [anon_INST192] that's dealing with waste and there are a number of people involved in it we were supposed to have one today but unfortunately with this meeting, we can't have it. uh we'll reschedule that. um as [anon_$089] said there have been a number of of there have been a number of convictions. There are a number of different um actions planned uh with the guardi and with waste enforcement. um most of the stuff that we take now at the moment is is commercial um uh just to make people aware um the amount of money that we have actually spent on on on waste removal has significantly reduced in the last two years. uh particularly because of uh we've we've we've re= we've realigned ourselves um and our caretaker staff to remove uh rubbish off sites um particularly with COVID. We do that on on um twice a week on every site, we remove all the the the rubbish that's there. In the vast majority of cases it is commercial rubbish, because we have bin um agreements with with various um bin providers on on most sites. um the response again to the [anon_INST193] ad, like I said, Councillor [anon_$082] uh we are looking at that report, and we will, we will be looking at addressing as many of those issues as as we can. It with regard to the [anon_INST192] meetings, we were doing the [anon_INST192]'s meetings in in early 2020. On a fortnightly basis, that was brought out to a monthly basis. uh At the last meeting of the [anon_INST192] the members voted to have it on a three monthly basis. Now, um as uh the the [anon_$080] um stated earlier on, we had that special meeting, as it is to be suggested as we put the [anon_INST192] at our meeting on Friday, that um that the the meetings be held every two months. And like [anon_$082] says have it in advance of the [anon_INST192] or uh the the housing [anon_INST91] so that we can do a report. And we can put it in that is actually reflects it. um I think that the traveller accommodation is= if I'm not mistaken, it'll be every every four months. um Is it? I I mean, on the it'll be every two we do a thematic meeting one month right and then the second month is the technical meeting oh so it's every two months. Yeah, that'd be two months.+ Okay+ ![unclear]/! So just Yeah, so that's, that's perfect. That's grand um so we'll be able to have the minutes and and any reports going on to the housing [anon_INST91] Then in advance, we'll time our meetings around what happens. um I think that's all the questions I was asked to answer. Thank you very much, uh much appreciated [anon_$084]. Okay, the next item is the um motion that we discussed at the last meeting by [anon_$085]. We, I suppose we decided we would keep it on the agenda as to as a follow up to what we were going to do it on the recommendation. um and also, the one we didn't get to, I suppose discuss was for the words illegal to be removed from any correspondence. Now, I did have a conversation with [anon_$124] um the manager on this. So [anon_$124], can I call on you to uh speak to that point before I ask councillor [anon_$085] to come in uh thank you Chair obviously did the whole issue of trespass is national legislation. And we can't change that. However, um we're quite happy to implement what's proposed here. So that in any correspondence we use any of our reports that we use, that we use the word or the term unauthorized rather than illegal, we've no difficulty with that chair. Thank you, Manager Councillor [anon_$085] would you want to come in and respond to that? Yes. uh and thank you uh chair [anon_$080] So um I I'm pleased to see there's already been uh the movements and improvements. And already uh since last month, there's been a lot of actions. Thank to to ![unclear]/! and [anon_FN114] and uh [anon_$084] and so on um So the fact that uh [anon_$080] you wrote to the minister, is um welcome to welcome. um the uh the huge difference should make today to have um the this topic on the top of the agenda. uh we everybody really engaged uh it it's good to see um the recommendation uh from the special meeting that um the list of future uh domestic Council travelers site to be circulated. So I see on the um on the report, that domestic Council is working with the the adjacent uh councils [pause] on that. So that's to welcome um I'll be following up on this. um and the illegal [tech noise] I saw that as well [tech noise] on the report that being replaced with unauthorized that's already a big improvement slowly but surely. Also, that the [anon_PR82] will be uh uh separate from the other report is is is to welcome um on the on on the creation of an [anon_INST91]. So it is national legislation. I was wondering maybe could we get the Irish travelers movement to give us either to the housing [anon_INST91] full um council uh presentation um should be presenting towards the young humans for the creation of an [anon_INST91] because at the end of the day, they are the travelers community for a lot of parts of of the group. And they are the experts. And we all agree the the it should be in the forefront, uh front and center of the agenda and uh uh listening to the expert is is always and the community the the way forward. So if maybe we could in=invite them to to present the arguments uh and as uh uh the housing [anon_INST91] that we support, and we will follow up on on your letter, [anon_$080] to [anon_INST162] uh on this um thank you Thank you very much. ![unclear]/! thank you very welcome Not at all thank you very much uh Councillor [anon_$085] uh [pause] Councillor [anon_$085] there proposed that we invite the Irish traveller movement in to present at the meeting any agreements with that? agreed Is the meeting in agreement with the motion? Agreed agreed Thank you very much, colleagues. Okay, item five, the terms of reference of the audit and construction costs and development time scales, we had a draft Terms of Reference at our last meeting, we then held a meeting on the 28th of June, I know some of you were unable to to attend. Where we uh added and deleted to those uh that's terms of reference, you now have a new one in front of you, uh which we are to agree today. Hopefully, I see one hand showing a Councillor [anon_$125] You come in on that please. yeah thanks Ardmhéara Yeah, I participated like others in the in the review session, which was very good. um some weeks ago. And I just had I I I support the terms of reference, as as laid out there can I just ask the significance of the italics um the way the terms of reference are presented this text, and then there's some text in italics, I presume that just highlights addition, like additions as a result of our previous discussion. And the final Terms of Reference won't have those italics I don't mean to be pedantic, although I am being pedantic, but just to be clear on what those italics that I understand that correctly. And thanks uh [anon_$080] Yeah, thank you. And my apologies for for not highlighting that no the final Terms of Reference, when it goes out will go out in in a formal of well formatted document uh I have another hand Councillor [anon_$081] and I also have Councillor [anon_$082] But I think [anon_$082] your hand is up from the previous uh item It is indeed I'll take that right down now Thank you very much uh Councillor [anon_$081] um many thanks. I was unable to make that meeting due to work commitments. But the it's a really, really good detailed Terms of Reference. um I think it captures everything. um so I have no problem supporting it having read it I'm just wondering, uh two things and maybe it's in there. And I I I haven't seen so apologies in advance do we have a timeframe for this? And how is it actually going to be delivered? Is it a subgroup a working group is it the management will be charged with with oversight I'm just wondering how how we've been delivered and where we have regular updates, because it is a sizable piece of work, they're I don't see this piece of work being done in a matter of weeks. um so when we have regular reports back to the [anon_INST91] on progress being made, but many thanks to you [anon_$080] and the management and all those who put time and energy into drafting this very fine Terms of Reference. Okay, thank you. It will be a tender out for consultants. And uh there will be a timeline I ask [anon_$124], to come in on that piece, please. +thanks ![unclear]/! +today chair there we we're just waiting for the formal agreement by the [anon_INST91]. um on the terms of reference. And yes, that my colleagues, I think we're reflecting the changes to the original document. So so they'll be corrected, obviously in the formal report. um look what we'll do we get on with it now and we we'll engage independent experts to work through I suppose the previous dual objectives, looking at costs and and looking at process and I've already started some discussions with the [anon_INST83] to say that this is coming and they're ver= keen to get involved which is good as well. um look uh Councillor [anon_$081] right It's it's there's two big bodies of work and a lot of stakeholder engagement there's a lot of people have an interest and um an expertise to add to the the overall report and that's everything from department of housing to councillors to officials our Qs and architectural teams, and and indeed contractors as well because particularly on the cost side, so we're very happy to come as we as we move along the different phases of the thing and even at the appointment of the consultants. We'll uh we'll update the [anon_INST91] regularly because we want your input but there'll be uh uh a formal input from those interested in contributing as well with with the consultants and that's the way we uh hope to manage it uh but just up to recently I think [anon_$126] is not on the line today but she had submitted some minor amendments but I think they're really just textual stuff so I think we leave it as is and agree it today. So that's it thanks sorry [anon_$124] Thanks, [anon_$124] I've two more hands showing uh Councillor [anon_$087] and Councillor [anon_ $032] very quickly, please. [anon_$080] Thank you uh [anon_$080] I, um I attended the session we did on drafting these terms of reference. And I think overall, they're very good and very comprehensive. I do note, however, that I raised the issue at that meeting of seeking submissions from potential experts, uh academics, etc, with expertise in the area, uh people like [anon_FN115] or ![unclear]/!or ![unclear]/! or whoever it might be. Now, notwithstanding the fact that the manager seems to think their perspectives are political. We did agree at that meeting, that it would be [pause] the job of the kind of external consultants employed to parse that and that we would seek those submissions and that doesn't seem to be included in these terms of reference. So I just think that's an important point for inclusion. Okay, thank you Councillor [anon_$087]I think we haven't detailed it with bullet [whispers counting] six seven eight uh discuss issues with nominated representatives of [anon_INST86] including councillors to gain further insight. There is. Yeah, I mean, I'd like it to be more explicit than that I would like it to to say what we said at the terms of reference meeting, which is that we would seek submissions from+ +Including academics. Yeah yeah okay Councillor [anon_$032] I suppose. Yeah. I really welcome this report. and I suppose um I I think maybe we need to relate that to new information now within the new um you know um affordable housing bill uh 2021 that we do have a different, you know, financial makeup, possibly now in terms of extra resources, and um also with the European office being set up. And the fact that the Lisbon um tock signature that that country signed up to in terms of ending ending homelessness by by 20 uh 30. um and EU funds. And I think if we could look historically back to [anon_INST86] and where we got it, right, it might help us going to the future in terms of procurement and how we, how we, we do this model, if we go back to say ![unclear]/! and the times when we were yes+ +able to build, I think that's important to look at that and see how we got it right in the past and how we could look to do that in the future. Again, thank you. Thank you [anon_$032] Is the meeting agreed with the proposal from uh [anon_$087] that we amend [pause] item or bullet point eight in the first section, comma including academics in the area of housing agreed agreed management, are we okay with that? Sorry chair a question Sorry [anon_$127] um I think it is included there. Because what we say is in in italics again utilize any current industry and or academic research available that is considered reputable and credible as part of the analysis So I think that's I+ +very explicit that we use that I just that I I presume, a category we're covering your issue in that way, but if you want to add to it no problem, item six it was Oh, sorry. Thank you. Yes, I I see that. um sorry+ +academic research yeah I missed that point As did I I don't think that point says look at research, though, rather than seek submissions, I think if we're doing this kind of construction costs audit, there is a merit to seeking submissions from relevant experts that may or may not make them but rather than just looking at the existing research, allowing people to put in [pause] submissions on their their analysis of the situation is important. Yeah, we can do that chair. No problem. Okay, thank you. Is that item agreed? Colleagues? Agreed agreed Thank you. [paper shuffling] Okay, the next item is the housing management update. uh one the housing supply report. [anon_$124] do you want to give us any pertinent points on that before I take questions? Yeah, look, just so we know that we always try to do is have a supply report as as up to date as possible. uh but it always lags a little bit behind in ![unclear]/! um and what I've always had instead of taking up hours and hours of issues. There could be some important points raised by counselors, obviously. But I'm happy to take emails if people need a bit better depth of information on that either schemes where we're at before or after [anon_INST91]s. And we give a fairly comprehensive reply in any particular scheme that you're interested in. Otherwise, we try and keep it as up to date as possible. But I did mention that one of the presentations that we're looking at an IT system, which will actually be contemporaneous with the kind of progress of the project. And we have a portal for the councillors to view exactly where the project is at and they have as much information as we have on the project teams. It's a little bit away, but we're working on that. So we would expect to report to have even more detail going forward on new schemes that are are being used as part of the IT system. Yeah, that would be very beneficial. Could I just ask um would that also be open to the public? Or is it just an internal system for ourselves as councillors? I think we look at it kind of uh a varied approach. I think we will have stuff that's available to the public. uh but I think we would have kind of a deeper access for for councillors sitting councillors as well. So that has to be worked through, but they are they're the kind of principles we're looking at. Thanks very much. Do I have any questions on the housing supply report? Okay, I can Oh, one. [anon_$087] uh [Councillor [anon_$087] Yeah. uh less a question and more just a comment that I think many of the representatives on this committee would agree with, I know that the long term leasing number has gone up again, I also note locally up the road from me that 121 units or 124 units or something along those lines behind the [anon_INST194] uh have been uh taking on for long term leasing um [pause] and I just want to put on the record [phone beeps] that like a vast number of us as councillors are completely opposed to this approach of delivering social housing. I understand it's the management's approach. I understand it's government policy, but I think it's worth having on record that we don't endorse this mechanism for delivering housing Okay, thank you Councillor [anon_$087] Councillor [anon_$032]. Yeah, I just tuned in, I was going to bring up the leasing as well, because I think it is the part that [anon_INST86] are doing it whether they want to or not, it is encouraging those to go into I'm seeing more and more planning permission still coming in, with you know rent rent to buy as an option. And I think [anon_INST86] becoming landlords in this way, you know, within the private market, it is giving them an an option of something that's, you know, that um you know, is is available. So when are we going to end up because it isn't government policy government policy is only to um have a very short window, and that it will then close? So where are we going because that window will be closed, and that option will be closed? So where are we going uh uh in terms of the the longer term because it's not sustainable? And how are we getting out of this? um You know uh uh so I suppose from [anon_$127] okay what is where are they moving to to make sure that this isn't not an option that they this is not going to be open to them for very much longer. So they need to be moving quickly away from this. Thank you. Thank you Councillor [anon_$081] Thanks. Very quick question for the manager. It's in relation to southcentral [anon_PL151] 176 units. [tech noise] there's a stage one application submitted to the department. And then a stage one approval has it been approved, or is this= are we still seeking approval for stage one, it's just uh I'm not being pedantic. But it it quite an impact on that. And if we're still waiting for approval on stage one for [anon_PL151] When would we expect a response? Considering we submitted it in March of this year? [tech noise]Thanks, manager. Thank you. I'll go back to [anon_$124] and [anon_$127] before I take the next two people. Thank you, Chair. on on the um for [anon_$032] uh uh the proposal is that the [anon_INST195] [anon_INST196] special housing development will come to an end soon. But there's no question of long term ![unclear]/! coming to an end um we don't know how long that will last and I know there's different views on it. It is government policy and it's making a huge contribution to housing needs in the city. So we might continue to take full advantage of it I think it's been stated they would prefer a different option. They would prefer to have the housing uh to be affordable public cost rental um and affordable purchase, you know, so I think that okay sorry Councillor [anon_$032] No, that's not that's not the case. But uh [anon_$087] I'll start again, on the leasing. It's the same issue. I know there's different views [anon_$087] on it. But while while that scheme is there it's a huge contribution to them and without it there'd be an awful lot more people in hotels and emergency accommodation. The um the uh uh [anon_$081]'s question of [anon_PL151] um factors or housing prior report is saying there is that stage one approval has been sought and the next milestone is to receive stage one approval from the department. We haven't got that yet that's being worked on between the two. between the department and ourselves. We would hope to get it pretty soon. we would hope to get it September October uh but we're not sure yet. But the scheme as far as we're concerned is full steam ahead. Okay, thank you. uh I go back now I've Councillor [anon_$088], followed by Councillor [anon_$042] Thank you very much. um I just want to ask you about [anon_PL152] in [anon_PL55] I know we have apartments there for for years now that are still not in in operation. And um is there any progress on that? And then also, there was in [anon_PL152], there was a whole apartment block went up for sale [pause] in the last few weeks. Is that anything to do with [anon_INST86]? And then I just finally want to mention leasing as well um can you let the local area know and the the uh members and the housing managers when there's leasing contracts going in, I went down to a builder who's doing up uh a small apartment block in [anon_PL55] and I got the information from them, that the units were all going to be leased. I didn't get it from my local office, I heard nothing about myself. And I just think there needs to be more communication of leasing is being done in an area. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor [anon_$088] Councillor [anon_$042] Councillor [anon_$042] we can't hear you [pause] no you were on muted, but I can't hear you. Maybe it's the headset. [pause] If you want to put it in the chat, I'll ask it [pause] can't hear you. Okay, you might come back in later if if you can resolve that uh Councillor [anon_$086] um just to to support the idea that we are aware=we are informed of when listening has been happening, whatever a scale obviously [pause] the majority of uh councillors and elected reps here uh want to see change in housing policy and how we provide it instead of [pause] uh the public of course paying completely crazy over the odds money and uh not even having ownership of it in the end [anon_$127] can you uh enlighten me as to the contract if it is to be signed? Or has it um stopped but the leasing of several apartments in the new builds there around the [anon_PL153] field area with the new complex that are going up? I believe there was um a lease um of several apartments, if you could give me an update on that. I'd appreciate it thanks Thanks very much uh Councillor [anon_ $086] uh [anon_$127] and [anon_$124] I'll go back to you um just on [anon_PL152] that there was a long delay there on that ![unclear]/!were involved going back years. But thankfully, that issue with ![unclear]/! is now resolved and it's now we're just waiting to get a contractor on site to do the necessary remedial works on those 60 or so units so they can be allocated. So that's the good news on that. But it will take a couple of months more for that what we've done the same the ![unclear]/! in various times. That's that's nothing to do with us that's private blocked its own privately and uh we're not involeved in it we're not interested in it, it's it's a private matter. For the leasing. Obviously, we can't, we can't it's a tricky one for us we can't notify councillors or anybody really while the negotiations are going on uh but certainly I think what we can do is get communication out to the area offices, even though it's up to the area office to ask to can ask it to ask them to be told out to the area office of all the councillors as soon as the lease agreement has been agreed. So rather than maybe councillors finding out from somebody else, we can get that information out uh much quicker uh to say that a a certain transaction has been has been uh finalized. We can certainly do that in relation to [anon_$086] [anon_$086] I'm not aware of anything anything [anon_PL153] I'll have to check that out for you. I'll check it out and uh get back to you okay Okay, thank you, [anon_$083] um Councillor [anon_$042] is trying to get in now on her laptop. So you might keep an eye out for her in the room. You've got her. I see. That's great. uh [anon_$082] Thank you very much, [anon_$080] Thank you very much [![unclear]/!for your uh report, um just in relation to the leasing of uh accommodation. um there's a number of things I would like, uh clarity on how many of these units uh you know what I mean are long term leases. And what options do we have in these long term leases to completely buy out these complexes, who also is managing uh these leases and who's managing the estate in terms of the tenants that are in them I'd like to know that whether it's an approved housing body or [anon_INST86]. The other thing again, is very, very important. Well, I know we don't have a really big oversight in terms of acquisitions, I would I would asked with all due respects that the because of the confidentiality, the sensitive nature and the commercial aspects that the audit committee which is again a confidential committee itself would get sight in some way in satisfaction in relation to these particular long term leases. And the the the manner in which they are rolled out to add further to that situation and to, you know, to say to my fellow councillors, there are many people uh in [anon_PL156] in in in our bond and indeed in [anon_PL129] who tomorrow morning they were offered a long term lease on an apartment would run out of those places because of the dilapidation that is in them appalling conditions that they are in not withstanding the fact that people living in tents and people like you know, who are homeless. So in the meantime, until we actually develop some measure of, you know, builds I will support uh the city management in according as much accommodation as we possibly can to address these horrendous issues, I certainly do not want to see, uh uh [anon_$080] with all due respects the residents of [anon_PL129] having to face 15 years of a regeneration project where they be living on a building site with no hope of any accommodation or alternative accommodation within that given area where the homes are being rebuilt, we have to actually stop, you know, and think about what's happening here. And and until this the state and until the councillors begin to actually build on land, well, then we only have this alternative. And the best thing that we can do is well, being cautious around it is at least to support the fact that you know that people are being accommodated. And I I I want to put that on the record. Thank you very much. Thank you Councillor [anon_$082] and uh Councillor [anon_$042] you got in now so Thanks [anon_$080] can you hear me? yes absolutely can hear you loud and clear Sorry I I was using the earphones because I thought I could avoid people picking up other stuff that's going on around me. But I just want to go back to the to the long term leasing. And I understand the point of the manager is making he made it quite clear [coughs] that the withdrawal of it will be detrimental to the [coughs] provision of homes for people. But just in terms of the the new legislation that will be enacted soon, the affordable housing legislation, whereby um um the minister has has said that up to um 100,000 Euro could be accessed by local authorities in areas of high cost for housing. um do you think that that might um go some way to to to pick up on what the last speaker said not [anon_$082] Sorry, I think it was [anon_$075] was it the um I think [anon_$075] I think I heard [anon_$075] talking about it maybe it was [anon_$087] do you think that the the new legislation might uh bring about a situation whereby um people who are who are applying for uh planning permissions for build to rent uh units that they're hoping the [anon_INST93] will lease? um or whoever will lease from them? Do you think that the opportunity in [anon_PL44] now uh to to reduce the cost of affordable homes um uh to the tune of an additional 50 on top of the 50 that is there for the site service fund? Do you think that might have an impact on on people, on developers or builders call them what you will building the the the buy to let or the the yeah buy to let do you think that might have an impact on them if they see an opportunity uh there uh for local authorities to purchase those volumes. It's it's just something I thought might make a difference manager. Thanks [anon_$080] You might let me have your comments manager. Thank you [anon_$087] Do you want to come in again? 10 seconds, please. Because I want to go back to uh the manager. Just very quickly to say on Councillor [anon_$082]'s point, um I think there possibly is a specific use for long term leasing and regeneration projects where people need to be rehoused for a specific period of time. But across the board, what it does is we are creating this market, we are allowing developers to do this, which means that developers then don't sell to us there are fewer acquisitions, we're distorting the rental market, we're pushing up prices. um we're reducing other rental availability. And we are using up limited construction capacity to deliver the kind of housing we don't want. Thank you Councillor [anon_$087] um I might take [anon_$128] if that's okay with everybody first, uh before I go to [anon_$082] because I've no other hands after that [anon_$128] over to you Thank you thank you [anon_$080], haven't seen you since you were elected. So congratulations. Thank you very much. um uh just quickly, I wanted to come on and on [anon_$082]'s point as well, I think it's an extremely important point. And I think that the criticisms of of long term leasing are are valid. But they do need to be balanced with that sense of of the immediate requirement providing people with homes. And certainly that's important must be important to the local authorities is certainly important for the group housing bodies. I think the real issue here is that it always makes sense as we wake up any morning or in any week to do the short term thing on the leasing. And that made sense over the years as we came out of the crisis, where it's deeply frustrating is that we're still treating it as if we didn't know this was coming. And now we've got the government is bringing out the uh housing for all strategy. I think in the next couple of weeks. It would be very useful after that is out if the council was if the officials were able to come back and say, well, now we know what the strategy is going to be for the next number of years. At what point are we going to be able to decrease the reliance on long term leasing? here here and at what point and how are we going to start taking this longer view so that we're not always in this position of we got to do it because it's a crisis, we need to be have a pathway out of the crisis, and to have much more long term and sustainable uh ways of of dealing with the issue. Thank you. Thank you very much uh [anon_$128] okay uh back you [anon_$124] and uh [anon_$127] chair yes uh uh as I agree fully with what [anon_$082] said I think the long term leasing uh uh uh will be very, uh very big make a big contribution to our needs and regeneration where people and families can tell us it but on the other side of it, it is as I say again it is making a very limited contribution to housing needs. Generally, there'd be hundreds more families in emergency accommodation and hotels and family homes only for the long term leasing scheme that we have. Now it's up to government to make changes on it but while the scheme is there it's up to us you know to maximize it. in relation to [anon_$128]'s comment uh I think we'll be reliant on the on the long term lease for many, many, many years to come. that that we have very little land to build on the pipeline that you see in our housing supply report and we've said this several times before, that's it there's no more land owned by [anon_INST86] in the city. So uh uh we're quite happy to look at other options, okay, we think maybe there's potential in the landmark days, it has potential on empty properties and only utilize properties, underutilized properties around the city, but uh I think we will be reliant on long term leasing for many years to come. uh ![unclear]! uh uh management of many years most of them leases are now 25 years. But some are 10. And some are 15. the the the regulation at the moment, and it's not a regulation dictated by developers, it's actually implemented by the [anon_INST197]. And that is that the property goes back to the developer after 25 years. However, after 25 years, it may well be the developer is quite happy to sell the property to us, and might be quite happy to roll over for another 25 years. And on the other side of it, we might be too anxious at all to become more over 25 years it depends on what kind of conditions the 10 or 25 years time may actually be a liability. However, uh at the moment, our our clear understanding is the government are looking seriously at changing that element of the scheme. So that after 25 years that the property will come into the ownership of [anon_INST86] or that's being worked on as we speak. The hu= 100 key sites fund is very very um welcome and it would certainly make a big difference if it can be re=applied retrospectively to um ![unclear]/! um [anon_PL108] and uh possibly uh uh uh ![unclear]/! for cleanup it could certainly make make affordable purchase price ever so much more attractive. [breath in] whether whether it will make a difference to private ![unclear]/! where they develop private units I'm not sure [anon_$042] how that's going to like 100 grand sites obsolete, if the construction cost is say [pause] say 350,000 it certainly makes a big difference. That brings it down to 250,000. Or if a developer is building something for 700,000 600,000 100k really doesn't make any difference. It It doesn't make it affordable, it remains to be seen whether it will result in developers rather than going for the attraction of long term of of long term leasing or build to rent that they'll start building for purchase. Again, the main reason developers are building for purchase is they find it very hard to get the money that you used to get years ago for building. And also there's no guarantee that they'll have buyers at the end of the day buyers find it very hard to get mortgages from them because of central bank rules. So it's too early yet [anon_$042] to see whether that will make any difference. And like everything yeah we're relying on on acquisitions and long term leasing for many, many years to come. Chair Sorry just the uh the point um that Councillor [anon_$082] made on the regeneration. I mean, that's the game changer for us. If we can get leasing properties in the right locations, it could shave years off some of the timeline for the regeneration. And I think [anon_$127] used the word before, you know, we're judicious in terms of what we take in, we don't take everything that comes into us it has to have a logic, it has to make sure that doesn't upset the tenure balance too much in areas. But it's a very strong delivery mechanism. But we were talking about this as if it's the only delivery mechanism, it's still only a part of the suite of options that we try and deliver. uh would we prefer not to rely on it yeah we would prefer to be able to build every house to satisfy that housing waiting list but that's just not possible or or feasible. So it's a fantastic option at the moment, and if we use it cleverly and in the right locations and at the right time, it can be very, very effective. Okay Okay, thank you very much. I'm going to close off that section of the agenda and go now to the report on homelessness. um [anon_$089] is there anything in that report you'd like to highlight before I take questions? um no not specifically to the report because it's all there um I didn't have the lettings information before um for= in time for the report for the the the uh [anon_ INST86a] lettings to home they are holding steady. They're about 25% of overall lettings so far this year. That's the only additional information. Okay, thank you. uh now I think that Councillor [anon_ $086] and [anon_$128] you might have your hands up from previous or are you still having them up for this? Okay, so I will go to Councillor [anon_$081] followed by Councillor [anon_$045] followed by [anon_$129]. Thanks [anon_$080] And again, thanks to [anon_$089] and all her staff who continue to [pause] provide an excellent service [pause] to maintain their integrity and humanity in a very difficult situation. I appreciate you getting back to me, especially after five o'clock [anon_$089] to you and your staff. So just want to note that on behalf of many people, um a few a few questions the single persons I noticed it's it's [pause] it's continues to jump out at me. It's very, very stark The numbers are very, very stark. While we seem to be getting on top of the the family homelessness, we can debate that and uh its effectiveness. The numbers are over 3000 single people homeless in May 20 uh 21, which is shocking, shockingingly high continues to spiral ![unclear]/! was the number in May 2020. I can't find that statistic. While I see they went up from May uh uh 2020, from 123 rented homelessness to 154. So all the numbers for the single person seemed to increase but I wonder what was the total uh 12 months ago? And I'm wondering I know I'm opening a massive debate. But maybe you're thinking [anon_$089] is there an argument? Or do we see an argument for um reinstating priority for homeless single people, um because we're not really making any real impact on the numbers. And we know it's complex. And the longer the longer term somebody is in homeless or emergency accommodation. As a single person, sometimes the problems they entered homelessness with become more complex. uh and I'm aware of that from from my job here, particularly around dual diagnosis, and are the causes of the homelessness for single persons I see with families, we see a break broken down and that dispels many myths that were at once out there. So I'd like to know what are the causes for the single persons, and also what I see as well, while the number of families in homelessness has decreased overall, particularly over the last number of years and much of that is down to the work you've been doing and your colleagues and your predecessors. There is an increase in the number of families entering homelessness from uh 25 [pause] families in May 2020 to 62 families in uh May 2021. I mean, what's the cause of that? Is that a concern uh for you or your staff? um look forward to response. And again, many thanks for all your help cooperation patience in dealing with this councillor Thank you Councillor [anon_$081] Councillor [anon_$045] Thanks, [anon_$080] [tech noise] um thanks for the report manager um [anon_$080] I want to highlight the breath of fresh air that [anon_$089] has brought to homeless services. um it's not very often you get a a compliment [tech noise] from people then, wholly but there has been there's been some serious work being done up there and through difficult times over the last number of months. And [anon_$089] has been at the forefront of that. um in regard to the National Quality frame or standards framework I I'd welcomed response from the manager in terms of implementation of that, but it didn't really get to directly answering the question in terms of an ultimate it's it's to be presented before committee in September is what the question came back at but we are still implementing that. um will there be uh mention of trauma informed care within Quality Framework standards, um to within deployed, deployed operators and are being faciliated at the moment in regard to the independent inspections. Like I know, I've been screaming for this for the last number of years, but I I'm not really impressed with what way we were rolling that out and and you know, subcontracting that out we seem to be on this onus in every section of [anon_INST86] that we are going to bring somebody else in the payement to do the work um on our behalf. And you know, I believe that a dedicated unit within uh uh the housing section or homeless service section um would serve us a hell of a lot better in terms of um these inspection regimes within the the private hospital uh facilities. I think that some con= it opens it up to controversy by subcontracting or contracting it out to um any sort of company and I do believe that we need to look at what what way that model is um going to be rolled out the free phone report well a review on the free phone we were supposed to see something back on that we haven't got anything back in the last number of months I know everybody is busy but um can we get an update um on uh where we're at uh on that? And I'd also like to highlight that in the report um we seem to be pulling things in out of these reposrts They're not consistent and the debts we've asked the debt to be put on the reports. They were put on reports for a number of months they were taken back out and put back into or taken back ill so can we ask that they're put back onto reports in terms of updates in regard to many people are doing um within our facilities, um monthly thanks [anon_$080] Okay thank you uh [anon_$129] [pause] please uh thanks [anon_$080] congratulations on the new role and every success from from ourselves here in [anon_INST198] Thank you. um just a quick one for [anon_$089] um she might just remind us or update us [anon_$089] a query from my colleague, [anon_FN116] [tech noise] um and on the status of the intended audits of the [tech noise] services buildings. Thank you. Okay, [anon_$089] back to you, please. um [tech noise] thanks Councillor [anon_ $081] um thank you very much for acknowledging the work of the [anon_INST199] they are very responsive and hopefully will stay that way. um single adults. Yes, it's a concern for us. um we watch it I guess we've been you're right, we've been so focused on families for previous years um the housing support officers we have we have that work for you= that work for us, I suppose, in combination of different things. um you know uh if there's [anon_INST200] teams, working with families for exits as well. um we have brought uh housing support officers into the private emergency accommodation to work with single adults, again, to give them the access, and that has increased the number of single adults exiting we've a particular focus in [anon_INST86] on over 65s. I think we've the numbers don't quite tight, and law knows that. So people are either under offer, or for one reason or another may need a different form [tech noise] of accommodation other than local authority. So we are focusing very heavily in relation to homeless priority, my honest answer to you would be, it's not an immediate concern. And the reason it's not an immediate concern is that we still have a considerable number of people pre 2018 with homeless priority um so what I would say, is and no more than with homeless, right, the fact that we took away pri= priority has not stopped us directing, we gave a commitment that we would continue to direct a share of lettings towards homeless people um without getting caught up on you know, I'm two years in emergency accommodation, I need to be moved outness but we're still continued to direct lettings, to homeless based on, you know, maybe their overall time on the list, rather than necessarily the time in emergency accommodation. So I think, you know, we haven't dropped the ball um at all, in terms of um in in the commitments we made when we revise the scheme, and I'm happy to talk about that anytime, you know, more specifically, in the committee we might look at that, again. The but yes for right now, I would say no, because we have considerable numbers on the homeless priority list. So it's um certainly causes for homelessness for single adults, we have done forensic kind of analysis in terms of family homelessness, um the single numbers, we're starting to do that and I should be able to start reporting to you a little bit more on the causes. uh pass version two has became live. That's our reporting system on event case management, it should help us refine I mean, obviously, it depends on what people put in. But it should help us get more of a sense of why single people are reporting as homeless we do see, we and from what I know, we did see more private rented from single adults [pause] in the past month um same as with families private rented is starting to feature again, whereas obviously it didn't during the moratorium um and travel opening up has changed as well in terms of new com= in in terms of new presentations So this, they are the two reasons that we see for increases and for causes. Councillor [anon_$045] thank you very much for your kind comments much appreciated um the quality standards frameworks for [anon_INST201]. We are going to I think it's the 21st of July and the special committee we're going to work, we're going to be giving a detailed update on that. But yes, we are conscious of it um we are conscious that we need the the standards and of pa's and rolling out supports and pa's is a shared concern, I think amongst all of us on the special committee. So I think we're going to be looking at all of what's happening in terms of [anon_INST201] specifically private emergency accommodation sorry, as opposed to the [anon_INST200] and that special committee on the 21st. um and we'll give some time to that. um and that would be [pause] but yes in terms of the National Quality, quality standards that is rolling out to pa's that is a commitment from us. The in=the reason we went for the independent inspections, I agree with you, by the way, I would I would have preferred that we kept the unit within [anon_ INST86] but I think there was a sense of in some of the criticism we were getting is that having it in [anon_INST86] wasn't independent enough. um So that's ultimately why we went for and, you know, we tended externally for it um the free phone review ![unclear]! should be in contact with people. um uh you know this month and next. She's um she's back engaged. She had um she had previous commitment and another contract for May but she's back engaged and we should expect that report um I would be certainly hoping for it around September. um to have you know, to give her a chance to write it up. She's certainly been meeting with staff and she's meeting um she's meeting with um key stakeholders over the next couple of weeks. uh reports and debts they're back in modified so we're um we're going to take on boards um [anon_FN117]'s recommendations and what we discussed this time, the last committee which will take out tendency related debts um and so we will keep continuing we'll keep reporting to this committee um in relation to debts and in emergency accommodation if that's= I think we're all agreed on that. um so yeah, that would be in, you should expect to see that in from now on okay thank you very much [anon_$089] I have two more hands I mean there was a question [anon_$080] I apologize very quickly+ +It was a specific, I asked around, we now have 3029 single persons homeless. What was the number 12 months ago, if they wouldn't mind clarifying that the front sheet gives the the list but [anon_$089] you want to=might in more specifically, it goes from May 2020 Councillor [anon_$081] May 2021 for all [pause] family statuses So are we looking? Sorry Councillor [anon_$081] the question again, was what month were you looking for? For singles? Yes, please. Yeah, for May ![unclear]! maybe I'm if it's in there I'll find it don't worry about it it's not in there but we don't um so but um we don't um so it was 123 new single presentations in May 2020 um and bearing in mind that was even during COVID. So [pause] we did find that that's quite a staggering number really when you think of it I suppose that that was in the middle of lock= peak lock downtime. That was for 2020. Okay, thanks [anon_$089] Thanks uh I've two more hands. I have Councillor [anon_$086] and [anon_$128] and I've a question myself. So Councillor [anon_$086] Sorry it was up earlier Okay, [anon_$128]. uh thanks very much um I just want to to add my comments about the quality of the the report um I must admit that because it wasn't a separate homeless report, I missed it in the overall overall pack um so and because it's now there is a new format, which does seem to be a a quick template. um there's different things in different places. It was easy to miss that. But I think it's a really good quality report. I think that's really good. It now leaves us the opportunity to do what I I was argued the committee should be about is not sort of trying to uh find out data at the meeting, but actually talk about the strategic implications of that. And I I do think it'd be useful. When this section comes up for sort of more detailed discussion, there could be some sort of agreement with the with the council as the Incoming Chair of the [anon_INST91] about concentrating on one particular theme in homelessness, that we might be able to, to sort of have a bit more of a strategic discussion about and and understand the way that that's developing in a much more constructive way. Just the last point I'd say is that our services across the country are picking up um increasing pressures as we move out of um uh out of lockdown and the the restrictions that were there on evictions, and so on um it's interesting um I think some people are a bit being a bit too apt, or a bit too confident that things are going to go appallingly badly. I live in fear that they're going to become appallingly badly. And I hope that they that they don't. It's quite interesting, but that hasn't. Well, there is an increased number of families becoming homeless. It's it's not the rapid acceleration that that was in our worst fears. I think that's positive. Outside of [anon_PL44] we are getting a lot of feedback that councillors that councils local authorities are saying to people who've been living in wider accommodation, living with family and friends and totally unsuitable circumstances where that's now no longer possible and are trying to present as homeless or being refused because, well, if you were able to live with your sister for the last six months, why can't you live with her right now, even though that's quite clearly untenable, I'd like to say that we're not hearing any of that from [anon_PL44] And I just think that it's really positive to say that, but it would probably be useful for [anon_PL44] to know that that seems to be a bit of a feature across the country, and maybe raise it with your colleagues. Because the obvious consequence of that is a number of people who are refused, as homeless in their own local authority will need to find somewhere else to go to be homeless. And that's been the problem that you've dealt with before. So there must be ways in which you can talk to your colleagues, maybe with a custom house to maybe have a little bit more of a return to the= what the legislation says, if you've no reasonable place you can stay you ought to be re=uh considered homelessness. But just to to note that we're not getting any reports of that nature in the [anon_PL44] context, which is is deeply welcome thank you Thanks very much, [anon_PL128] uh before I go back to you [anon_ $089] I just have a question myself uh to what extent is the availability of one beds, uh an influence on this slowness of singles getting accommodation, as opposed to the cost? It's more availability? Thank you. um I'll come back in sorry I um [anon_$129] I want to apologize that completely skipped your question, um I wasn't trying to avoid it [laughs] um in terms of the inspections, that's [anon_$129] that the inspections will be for both. We're trying to get consistency and that's where we're aiming is consistency across all our accommodation. So when we inspect um a physical property, we'll be inspecting the physical standard So the new Inspectorate when it will that's applicable, they'll be they'll be inspecting both private and [anon_INST200] facilities to try and keep the standard up everywhere. um so that, you know, whenever that's in place, we will be communicating with everybody. um [anon_$128] thank you. um Yep. Thanks um you're right. I agree with you in terms of the increase in new families. And I certainly welcome some of the work that we've done, you know, together um um in terms of prevention work, which I understand from, from the [anon_INST202] for people who are in arrears this, there's been some prevention work there, which is to try and I suppose, to to get ahead of the problem, which I hope will be, you know, what I hope will pay dividends and certainly, my, my understanding from the [anon_INST202] in [anon_PL41] is that they've had quite a number of contacts from families who've been, you know, who have been prevented. We've proactively contacted families to say, Look, you are at risk if you've had careers um so that's being you know it's great to see some kind of proactive work happening councillor [anon_$080] um and the issue with the other local authorities, [anon_$128] sorry, yes um certainly uh we do have a regional forum. We can we can raise it there to see if it's an issue. Councillor [anon_$080] the one beds I would need to look at that in more depth um and I might do it in terms of the special committee we can look at u [pause] we should look I could give you a lec= we probably look need to do a detailed look at the lettings for singles and um families in relation to homeless anyway. So I think is it an impact on us is the shortage of one bed supply unquestionably um as for housing first as for um you know where we do get one beds, it tends to be senior six besits but we obviously we would like to have more of a one bedroom supply um for both both housing first, and for people who aren't maybe don't require that level of need um but you know, it's one bed is a constant issue for us. So we're probably better than our we have more one bed stock than our colleagues in [anon_PL50] and south so we're relatively lucky in that also some I mean, due to the change in the scheme of lettings, we do have more homeless people accessing two bedroom accommodation now where they have family or overnight arrangements or access arrangements. Okay, thank you very much is that report agreed everyone? [pages shuffling] Thank you. Updates on the working groups. You have a report there from the senior citizens working group they actually haven't met since the [tuts] the pre= our previous meeting, but we have a meeting next week with the [anon_INST203] You'll note a letter there from um our two [anon_FN118] of the [anon_INST203] from Councillor [anon_$126] who chairs that group seeking a meeting with regard to seating a bus stop. So that's happening next week, the special committee on homelessness as uh [anon_$089] noted their meeting next Wednesday, and we have a report there on our oversight committee on animal welfare issues, and I know they met this morning. So I'm just wondering, uh Councillor [anon_ $042] if there's an update from this morning's meeting you'd like to give thanks [anon_$080] um Yeah, as a that we carried out the tendering process um following which uh none of the tenders submitted were successful. So I'm very pleased to say that there's a very positive interim measure in place, which will be maintained and managed by the uh newly established animal welfare unit in [anon_INST86] it's very positive uh news uh from the uh from the uh the deputy chief executive and from the chief executive, in terms of the support that they are affording to this new departure in terms of setting um I suppose better standards in terms of animal welfare, so it's really positive uh in relation to the care or the shel=, the provision of shelter for dogs that are seized um abandoned, lost or surrendered in the [anon_INST86]'s functional area. And then um we had a discussion around the wider aspects of animal welfare in the city. And it's very, very welcomed that an Garda Siochana uh [anon_INST204] uh members of the [anon_INST86] management, uh and generally the team are fully focused on raising uh the animal welfare standards in the city. It's a very positive uh development. We're no longer using [anon_INST205]. So I will keep members informed as we go forward, but it's very positive [tech noise] and we're very all the committee members this morning are very pleased with the outcome. So thank you very much [anon_$080] Thank you Councillor [anon_$042] and thank you for your excellent leadership on this issue. I have Councillor [anon_ $032] has her hand up and I see [anon_$128] and [anon_$129] but I think their hands are from the previous item okay I just wanted to add to the uh chair excellent report on that. Just to say that it was a very positive meeting but that we do that [anon_INST86] are in the process of of hiring their own um dog wardens and they have the vans, which is another so really we have made huge progress within a year on this um you know we didn't we'd be as far as we have done within a year. So just well done to everybody involved. Thank you very much. uh I have no other hands showing so is that report noted? Thank you yeah Okay uh we're now into motions. We have two motions uh on the agenda. The first one is from Councillor [anon_$063] with regard to the [anon_PL206] flat complex. uh uh I know Councillor [anon_$063] circulated uh an information piece which I know I found very uh useful uh on this to give us a little bit of background so I go to Councillor [anon_$063] to propose his motion. And then I take speakers if anyone wants to speak on it, Councillor [anon_$063] over to you. Thanks thanks very much, [anon_$080] and members of the housing [anon_INST91] for for giving a motion today, um as mentioned by the [anon_$080] I did I did send an email earlier in the week just to give a bit more background and information to it. I know there's a number of colleagues here from [anon_PL158] Committee will be very, very familiar with the issues at hand. And I hope that um unfortunately, the rest of the council's will also be familiar. I think they were they they were noted earlier on by Councilor [anon_$082] um my motion today seeks to uncover the extent of the damp and mold issues that we know are present in the [anon_PL157] complex. I've engaged with [anon_INST86] officials on this now for a number of months since taking up the seat last year. And um you know, I recognize and appreciate the engagement that [anon_INST186] has has made those for our residents um but I do not think that a case by case basis is is adequate to address the extent of these issues. We now have um statistical information [pause] to back up what we've already known, I think for a long time uh that the damp and mold issues in all [anon_PL157] are very widespread. And I don't think case by case is going to is going to uh adequately deal with those. The ressidents of [anon_PL157] themselves launched the report last week uh two weeks ago, excuse me. And uh it is a direct ask from them that my motion includes, which is a complete and total audit um of the environmental conditions across the complex and every single flat. um 83% of residents that uh responded to this survey said they experienced damp and mold issues I think um we really really do need to grasp the nettle on this. um [anon_INST86] I mean in response to one of the questions recently said they were [pause] open to a more proactive and sustainable response to these issues. And I think uh acting upon this motion will be a key first step to achieving that. um a total audit environmental audit the conditions that our attendance [anon_INST86a] tenants have to live with in this complex and in a fully costed plan to to remediate these issues. um [anon_$080] I don't want to take up much more time I'm I'm I'm finishing now but just a final point I'll just add as well uh that I have included uh an additional component on is the pitch in [anon_PL157] um [anon_PL157] pitch is one of the most used public amenities in the flat complexes, one of the biggest social housing complexes in the city uh in the state. And the pitch is regularly used by children of all ages. And I was down there the last day two weeks ago with with other councillor colleagues at the launch by the residents and the ducktape actual ducktape just patting over uh some of the pitch and it's it's an absolute safety hazard and we shouldn't wait for someone to seriously injure themselves before we properly uh address that and and fix that pitch so I've added uh an additional line in the motion that we will we will immediately assess the pitch and then come up with a plan then to to fix that as well um so thanks very much [anon_$080] for for hesring me today. I hope that the [anon_INST91] will will will support this motion. And I do hope that the the officials will will welcome the sentiment I like that I'm opposing this but I'm trying to be constructive. I recognize they are engaging. I just think it needs more attention. And it needs to be more proactive response. Thanks very much, [anon_$080] Thank you very much, Councillor [anon_$063] I have two speakers showing Councillor [anon_$123] followed by Councilor [anon_$86] and then Councillor [anon_$130] Thanks uh Ardmhéara and thanks also to Councillor [anon_$063] and this is in and you're correct [anon_$063] in saying that this is a conversation that we've been having for quite some time. I had a motion um brought to this very [anon_INST91] back in 2017. uh specifically dealing with the question of, of damp and building fabric and whether it's the responsibility solely of the tenant because of bad tenant, you know, living uh practices or was it was it was there an issue in relation to the actual fabric of the building and how, you know, whether they were constructed at a certain time and and were off their time that there is an acknowledgement that modern living which we all participate in um is is actually what's contributing to to the the the such such high levels of of damp and mold and the 83% that you mentioned there and [anon_PL157] I mean, the conversation in 2017 arose out of an exact same issue in the [anon_PL159] flats and some of the very same experts who were involved in the [anon_PL157] uh research were also involved in [anon_PL157] and the same conclusion was drawn then as it is now that this isn't a question simply of how people live. It's a question of the building fabric, the dated uh the dangerousness of that building fabric, if that's even an expression and and the need for for A need for review and for really understanding what it is that we need to to address that that the motion in in 2017 called for the establishment of a working group, the motion was passed. But unfortunately, I was the only Councillor that attended uh that working group. And we also sought to have the tenant handbook changed to reflect the fact that that there's a broader issue here. And it's not just it's not just to be laid at the feet of tenants. So I really welcome this motion, and I I actually have similar motion for our area committee meeting, which Councillor [anon_$063] has has has co-signed calling for a study to be carried out by the relevant technical experts um some of those are already known to us um and and that that we we address this as a matter of urgency because you know that the housing crisis isn't just about uh a lack of supply. The housing crisis is also about the very substandard conditions that many people have to live in and where we have control as local authority over the conditions that our tenants live in uh we should be doing everything in our power to raise those standards. And for at least that group of people and a crisis that is their housing conditions. Sorry, apologies uh thank you very much Councillor [anon_$123] Councillor [anon_$086] uh yeah obviously to concur with the um the motion and I'm very much in support of it, I think, at the launch uh last week um done by the residents themselves on the environmental survey that was carried out 1200 people live in that complex. And we got the report of basic damp uh mold, condensation was the biggest [pause] issue also rodent infe=infestation and there's they're suffering from external, mostly external antisocial behavior. Um this complex is seen to the regeneration um 15 years as with lots throughout the city 15 years is just too long. It's a very proud working class community there. It's in the premier tourist area of the entire country, from [anon_PL160] to [anon_PL161] And yet it's completely overlooked and they feel overlooked wonderful buildings that have to be obviously preserved but absolute deep, deep retrofiting and complete regeneration but when's that gonna happen? uh [anon_ $127] would you be apt to answer if there has been engagement with the minister, we brought this up several times to try and make some fast tracking of this as shortcuts um in obtaining the the finance to back it up and make it a quicker uh job of work uh have you been engaging with the [anon_INST162] or some of your officials to see if you could clarify on on that um I know we want to get the residents to present to to the [anon_PL158] committee. And um I thought perhaps here as well, I think that would be a good idea. uh last week um the the the torrential downpours uh I think it was Friday the videos that were coming through to me on my phone, were horrific, not just the balconies that were flooding into the houses and they were out um bailing them out but also internal uh videos of uh pipes bathrooms, outlets, all ceilings, almost collapsing, and I think [anon_INST86] and what was like late, late on Friday, and they and the or Thursday i=into Friday and their response would absolutely support the the motion and we need we need to take regeneration and don't make it a depressing 15 year wait, which was started 10 years ago um the idea of regeneration. So somebody will be potentially you know, in their late 20s. By the time they they see any fruition from it. Thank you. Thank you Councillor [anon_$086] uh Councilllor [anon_$130] and then Councillor [anon_$032] uh thanks chair [anon_$080] just to say uh speaking in support of the motion and uh to congratulate the local community and uh Councillor [anon_$063] for the work on this. I think it's clear, it's concise, um and it's proactive in in nature um obviously damp is an issue that's affecting flats across across the city um but it's good to see this kind of activity or whatever else. So just to speak in favor of it. I think it's something that we could, I'd like to see more of this kind of work or more of these kinds of motions been brought uh to the [anon_INST91] and uh just that I'd be supporting it. Thank you Thank you and thank you for your brevity Councillor [anon_$086] Councillor [anon_$032] [tech noise] Thank you chair and Just to support this motion, and I just think as well that, you know, rather than people waiting for things that are particularly of health concerns when relations to mold, um have they looked at air filtration system that include um you know, UVV light which can take some of the mold spores out, um can help and they could be used when they actually are refurbished. And it might be something that we could look at them across are older um older and um flat complexes, um you know, as a possibility, because when, when, when they do when they are refurbished, and they meet the ends um um which we need to for all uh public buildings and housing. um you know, we still need air filtration. So they could be put in and put taken out and put back in again, you know, so we we could reuse them. So I just think it's something that might be um not too expensive an option, but we'll definitely be very beneficial uh in terms of the people living there. Okay, thank you very much, uh I'm going back to the manager of though Councillor [anon_$123] do you want to come in very briefly again briefly, just to say that, that that was one of the things that the pilot group was looking at, there was a pilot done, where some flats were were fitted with those air extraction [pause] units. And for the towns that had them, they did make a difference. So as a short term measure, they could possibly also be considered, but that they di= they shouldn't retract. +no [tech noise] just no +refurbishment +thank you +there is presidence at council and a report was done on that Thanks, Councillor [anon_$123] uh manager back to you for response please. Thank you, Chair. Yeah, as as [anon_$063] said earlier like out [anon_PL157] houses is the biggest flat complex in the country 391 uh apartments and it's in it's in strong need of refurbishment or regeneration. Everybody accepts that the residence accept that we accept that. Um and the process of getting it to regeneration is is ongoing, we haven't been we're not in a position to submit the stage one approval application to the department yet so it's no point just blaming the minister or blaming the department and it's not gone to them yet, it's it's it's a big project. And we're talking about maybe breaking it into three or four different parts. So we're not going to do all kinds of ![unclear]/! and economic analysis all those all those kind of things, we expect to have the the application for Stage One approval to the department by September. And we don't see any reason why they can't turn that around very quickly they turned around [anon_PL129] very quickly, which is in um Councillor [anon_$130]'s uh area the problem is, it will take a long time to do because it it will require total retenanting. So every single tenant in [anon_PL157] will have to be moved. And I think everybody knows how difficult a process that can be. um it it can be done. And uh uh obviously a deep retro retro fitting um job done on it. So from 15 years 15 years will be from the start right to the finish thst would be everything finished. like It took 25 years really for [anon_PL96] to be done overall from the start. The problem we have and take everybody has is what happens in the meantime, they they we came to the [anon_INST91] about three years ago with a report on regeneration. And we explained very clearly and honestly, that we have a whole lot of complexes coming out of [anon_PL157] in the city that were no longer fit for purpose. They're 50 years old, there's issues around board uh mold condensation. And our efforts over the years have been in central heating and new windows in some ways, brought back comfort to tenants. But it actually created more problems for condensation and dampness and all that. But the reality is that uh a significant amount of work may have to be done on on the apartments and put in dealing with dump uh damp and condensation before the regeneration starts. And we simply don't have the money for that. We don't have the money, the rent we collect doesn't allow us to do that. And we have to do work like this in [anon_$162] and [anon_PL129] right right from the city. So we might need and it's something we've come back to council and we want to have to find some way of getting some kind of special budget, maybe from the department for this, we've never done this before, like the money for a regeneration will be there I've no doubt about it and will get done with the issue in the meantime this this this work is going to have to be done. And that's going to be uh that's going to be difficult, as well as the maintenance issues that are down there. And it's because of the age of of the unit is a very serious drug problem down there at the moment open drug dealing or drug activity. um and that's causing a major concern. And that's gotten much worse since CO=COVID. And we're working closely with our colleagues in the county on on that. uh the [pause] so I think it's it's going to it's going to be a difficult one uh what we want to do and which we've been doing shortly and we've done so what we would have done it, uh only for COVID is we're going to set up um establish a special regeneration committee, special generation forum just for [anon_PL157] We're going to select an independent chairperson. And uh we will have uh some residents on that and councillors and so on. In order to to help push the whole issue of long term regeneration push the issue of how do we deal with the short term issues around maintenance. And deal with the social issues we have here as well so it is very much a priority issue for us. But it is one of many around the city. The whole regeneration program that we have has been speeded up and the point that we made about three years ago, if we look at the standard way of us doing one complex every two years, was doing it directly it would take us the best part of 100 years if these things to answer when looking more radical ways uh and that may mean P P's joint ventures joint ![unclear]/! two thousand bodies and so on. But [anon_PL157] is very much uh top of the list in relation to the motion um Councillor [anon_$063] we've no difficulty with that we've no difficulty carrying out an environmental um audit on the complex. ih in realtion to the football pitch I was down there myself the other day, there's a few patches on it. It it's not that it re= requires um fixing. It requires a new surface it needs to a whole new surface and the football club is working out very well. a new surface would cost about 60 grand [pause] we don't have it [pause] uh uh at the moment. But again uh our lads are doing uh a survey on it trying to work out the exact cost and we make a case to the department ![unclear]/! himself was down there a few months ago and it was was very positive. So we'll try and get that but it does need full full replacement, smaller bits, like uh making a contribution to the football club. And we've done that with no difficulty with that kind of thing. It's worked it's worked out very well the um and pushing the the regeneration, we we do that all the time. But the the issue for us is that there's a need for a significant amount of investment in [anon_PL157] before generation takes place. And that's where we're gonna have difficulty getting the money for that. But we have no problem with the the motion. Absolutely not Thank you very much manager, I have one final speaker before we put the the motion to the meeting Councillor [anon_$082] Yeah, thank you very much chairperson, thank you very much for the motion. And and thank you very much [anon_$127] for your explanation there. It's just a number of issues come up because of the motion. And because of this conversation. I mean, we've had to use the use the, you know, the regeneration, or it's been a block of flack for being taken down. And there was a structure there. However, I believe that that structure is now completely inaccurately out of date, and not really relevant. In many cases, people who were on such boards like, you know, had no particular training. And again, many people complained to our indoors blocks you know what I mean that they weren't really being super informed. So when you're actually refurbishing a block, like you know uh the likes of uh [anon_PL129] and indeed all [anon_PL157] I think we need to look at a different structure altogether. I also think it is quite kind of like silly to actually separate these blocks and separate this process. These are all public and social housing. And this is [anon_INST86]. And we are the directors of [anon_INST86] and we need to approach these in one single fell swoop and I would ask [anon_$080] with all due respect that you might set up as task force to look at the best possible way that we can actually set up a platform with that involves residents, businesses, councillors uh uh whoever it may be to look at this possibility, because [anon_PL132] is going to be 15 years [anon_PL157] 15 years a lot of issues here in terms of criminality, you know as the way we operate, and in the meantime, the conditions of these places. So I would ask that we would actually, you know, convene some measure of a special meeting as to what kind of a vehicle we're going to roll out in relation to how uh these are going to be managed through a committee. Because I don't think it's something for a rejuvenation but because we're not rejuvenation, we're simply refurbishing, and in many cases, because of the listing of these buildings, we won't be allowed to take them down uh [anon_$080] because of the specialist thing. However, I do believe that the responsibility for proper interventions where we can take down certain sections of these buildings and build them properly, like they have in Europe. Where I'd ask for a special consideration be given to that. And I want to thank the Council for the motion. Thank you [anon_$080] Thank you very much, Councillor [anon_$082] And we might get the manager to do a report for our next meeting on the point they're raised by Councillor [anon_$082], I'm going to go back to Councillor [anon_$063] before I put the the motion Councillor [anon_$063] thanks very much [anon_$080] and thanks to the colleagues for for supporting the motion and and to [anon_$127] and his team for the response. I suppose [anon_$127] when you hit the nail on the head in terms of that there's a body of work to be done before the regeneration takes place. I don't think anybody uh thinks the regeneration, you know, isn't worthwhile [tech noise]. Everyone Everyone accepts is absolutely necessary. But it's just the conditions that the people have to live with in the interim. You mentioned um you know, I appreciate it's difficult and you're you're sort of just trying to give some ideas here now in this meeting, but you mentioned possibly applying for a separate body of funding for the interim fixes before the regeneration. um is that something you could come back with a bit more information on that'd be really, really helpful? uh I appreciate, you know, it mightn't come to fruition, but at least if we're being proactive and applying for it and going to the department with the ask, we can then go back to the community and say we're doing our damnedest as a local authority uh the other point on the pitch. Councillor [anon_$032] has just mentioned in in the chat, uh would it be the [anon_INST83] and local government you need to go for for the relaying of the pitch could you go directly to the spar= the department of sport? um I'd be interested to get your your your response on that is of the council as the owner of the pitch. I know [anon_PL157] FC are in there at the moment and doing fantastic work in that community. But as owners of the pitch, would it be you or the club that would need to apply for that funding? uh I really appreciate your response on those issues. Thanks very much [anon_$127] Okay, manager, you might come in very quickly on those questions, because I have another motion on the agenda as well. just very quickly, chair, yes, in relation to uh uh we will, it will be the case that we've been offered but we're going to have to get a budget, we'd have to find a way of getting [pause] money to care for investment is required on the shorter term. So we put that together, and we come back to this committee on it and I hope this committee can add it's kind of strengths to that uh in relation to the sports grants they're done every year. So you don't apply you wait until the department advertises that it's a fairly complicated process. There's no reason why we couldn't do it jointly with the, with the club. And we've done that before. And we've assisted clubs along the way, but like, even though 60 grand and we don't have that at the moment, we may be able to find some way of uh of getting that done [anon_$063] so we come back to you on that. Okay, thank you very much manager, I just want to lend my support to the motion and to Councillor [anon_$063] and all the [anon_PL44] side central councilors who are working on this, and I said it's a very big complex of ours and one that we need to support. So is the meeting agreed uh that this motion should go through? agreed+ agreed agreed Thank you very much um and well done Councillor [anon_$063] uh we have a second motion in the name of Councillor [anon_$122] with regard to the city development plan, Councillor [anon_$122]. Thanks Ardmhéara um this is fairly straightforward motion, there's a [pause] high level of uh housing and technical expertise on this [anon_INST91] um with the amount of work we've done looking at the various costs, and different types of bills, the social mix, and I think it's vital that the [anon_INST91] itself has an input into the uh housing strategy that will be included as part of the draft [anon_PL42] development plan. So I'm just asking that the uh members here today agree that we give direction to the executive to make sure that the housing [anon_INST91] pay plays a leading a vital role in the uh uh compilation of a housing strategy. go raibh maith agat. Thank you very much uh Councillor [anon_$122] I have two hands up, but I think they're from previous ones. I have an indication of support from Councillor [anon_ $123] I'd also like to lend my support to that as well. um so I would envisage manager with Councillor [anon_122] uh is asking is that the housing strategy document would come to the [anon_INST91] uh for a discussion before it's signed off on for the development plan, and they the various meetings that we're going to have on that. So you might come in and give us a response on that. I know, it would be coun=or [anon_$131] and [anon_$033]'s area [pause] probably as well. I'll come in on that chair yeah look, the quick answer is yes. And and it is timely. um the housing strategy, a lot of technical data, and research has it's come into kind of a conclusion, where we can start using that data in terms of of the overall uh strategy that will sit in the development plan. So there's a lot of stuff around demographics and baseline studies, household size, planning, permissions completions, uh which would dictate that you know, current housing stock, and then into the future, what stuff can take policies are needed? So yeah, it's very timely uh I just wanted to think through how how best we engage with the [anon_INST91] in relation to that, so that the, you know, the input is uh is uh substantive. uh I'll talk with [anon_$131] because there's obviously the development plan leads the structure. So we tie in with that, but very happy to work with the members. And um let me think about it for a few days in terms of how we might manage that uh I don't want to come with like, you know, kind of a semi completed draft plan because I think we want your input prior prior to that. So I just think through how best to do that and come back to yourself chair or the committee Yeah, perfect. We can we can schedule a meeting between maybe the e= before the end of the month or early, sort of the last fortnight in August so most of us be back before we go into that uh we can do it as in a working group type meeting that we've had previously. I think that would work very well where we can sort of tease things out. uh I've just one other speaker Councillor [anon_$032] on that. Just to support uh the motion um I think that a lot of us have fed in uh motions already, you know, that are in the housing [anon_INST91] that our councillors have have fed in motions to that, but you know, I think that you know, I I would agree with Councillor [anon_$122] that, you know, we have the expertise within this. And it's, you know, very much policy driven. And if we were to see our policy enacted and the development plan, it's important that we have an important at this stage. um you know, so that we do have sustainable housing and and a livable city. And it it includes all the amenities. And now that we've, the strategic housing developments are going to be gone. So we will now have a proper role, again, in terms of of planning and and um um having a housing policy that that best uh fulfills a livable city and a 15 minute city and all the excellent um um things that are part of the development plan. So yeah, I I agree, and I think it's really good. uh motion and I supportive it thank you Thank you Councillor [anon_$032] is the meeting in agreement with that motion? agreed Thank you very much. Okay, last item of the agenda is notice of our next formal meeting Wednesday, the eighth of September, but in between, we'll have some sort of um meeting on the housing strategy. And we've have finished 10 minutes before our two hour deadline. So well done everyone. I think that's a first [laughs] thank you well done [anon_$080] [laughs] well done [anon_$080] thank you plenty of practice chairing now [claps] oh stop I shall see you all on the 9th of May for the LPT oh right yeah see you thanks everybody good luck bye bye everybody bye So once we start reco= okay yeah you're recording there now [anon_$090] Great. Thanks very much. All right. So as I said, we're going to move item 10 up to after item five, uh which is the [anon_PR61] First, are we all happy with the minutes [tech noise] from the last meeting? [silence] I'll take that as a yes. Unless there's any hands [pause] No. Uh there's no matters arising, uh that anyone's notified to me speak now, or forever hold your peace. uh correspondence, we have one letter from [anon_INST175] just about um EU funding for or sorry the calaborisation of nuclear and gas. [pause] uh there's no action required [pause] I have no particular business to add into this, [pause] um which is item four. So that's speeding us along to Item five, which is um the waste re municipalization um subcommittee. Just for for those who aren't familiar, this was set up as a [pause] following a motion at the very start of the council term. And initially, it was a [pause] I think it was a committee before the [anon_INST91] It was a committee of the whole council. um [anon_$081] is going to be [tech noise] taking the lead on it [tech noise] and uh he can [pause] talk us through some of the work it it's now par= on on under [anon_INST81]. Um and they're in the process of getting a report. So [anon_$081] do you want to uh um take it away there? Yeah, I'll I'll I'll keep it brief. And I know ye have [tech noise] a long agenda um and I just want to acknowledge the support you've been giving us, Councillor [anon_$090] as the chair of the [anon_INST91] have also been very generous with your time and attending the meetings when you can and and supporting us. Um I don't think we'd have made the advances we have without your your support and also to acknowledge [anon_$092] and [anon_$093] here for giving us their their their both their professional support and practical support in advancing the work of of the subgroup. [tech noise] and it's made a big difference to to the work we've been doing. So I just wanted to acknowledge that [tech noise] I think, particularly [anon_$092]'s insight has been invaluable [pause] to to the the working group, it's given a sense of professionalism and focus, and that the wider working group has has equally remained um I suppose the the commitment has been great um honestly, cause we passed this motion back in 2019, I think so it's been a slow trudge, but we are moving in the right direction to the tra= trajectory is going in the right direction. I think that the the big breakthrough for us [pause] has been the negotiation, the meeting, and then the commissioning of a report by the [anon_INST176] [anon_INST177] again, was on on the [anon_$092] guidance, he engaged with them directly, we agreed uh terms of reference, we met with them, they made a presentation was a very good presentation, then they they left the meeting. And we agreed [pause] virtually unanimously to actually uh ask them to do the report [answers phone] hello That report should be ready fully um in June, we'll be uh I got a a a brief written report in December an update that was circulated a working group and to yourself chair. Um and they were having a nu= further meeting of the sub group in February, which I hope the [anon_INST176] can attend and give us a kind of a mid way in depth um uh uh report or analysis of where we are, then the full report should be finished in June, which we um they'll be back at the meeting to to share that report and and to talk us through it. That report will then be belong to the sub group or to [anon_ INST86]. It's not policy, we're not looking at them to draft policy. We're asking them to do uh some research and to give us guidance on what [anon_INST86] can do what legislation that would need to be passed at [anon_INST178] level to ensure that we use !unclear/! of the domestic waste [breath out] uh collection service so we we we're we we we're confident that we'll have [tech noise] that report in June and then we can bring it back to the [anon_INST91] once again [pause] [technoise] for the discussion and that will then hopefully be some sort of roadmap that will help guide us. We don't have to adopt a whole report initial as as policy it's just a report [pause] uh to help uh further the advancement of the mandate that was given to us in 2000 and and uh 19 [pause] sinn e. I think if there's any questions, or [anon_$092] or indeed yourself, uh Councillor [anon_$090] or [anon_$093] if any of you want to add or subtract or if I missed out on anything, feel free to add to it there. That sounds great [anon_$081] and thanks so much for all your work on this it's really appreciated and thanks for coming in to update us. Are there any [pause] questions for that? or are we kind of it's probably best to wait until the report I'd say before we get into a substantial discussion if that's okay. Yeah, absolutely um great [pause] okay great is that all right? Thanks ![unclear]/! the rest of the meeting Thanks thanks [anon_$082] slán thanks Great uh [anon_$092] you got your hand up there. [clears throat] sorry chair can I [clears throat] just for the benefit of the minutes I don't think it's a decision that's necessary but just for the purposes of clarity [breath in] what the [anon_INST176] are going to bring back is the scoping report and the methodology yeah in terms of how to complete the research yes I I take it this group, I suppose, because you have previously made that commitment that they could engage the [anon_INST176] I presume that this group therefore is still happy for the subcommittee to continue that engagement. Um in February, I think it's the 24th February that the [anon_INST176] are coming in to make the presentation [breath in] so are ye= just for the benefit of the minutes uh chair, I take it this meeting is happy for the subcommittee to continue with the arrangement with the [anon_INST176] and that it doesn't have to come back to the [anon_INST91] for formal approval. I I I'm certainly happy with that. I mean, they'll still come back for re=reports as they have there [anon_$094] you've got your hand up. yeah chair correct me if I'm wrong here. But this subcommittee is not a subcommittee of this [anon_INST91] um it's a it's a subcommittee of effectively the council. So um I mean, the writing instructions I see [anon_$092] nodding his head there. So the writing instructions who's giving the writing instructions in terms of the [anon_INST176] um sorry so just to be clear that the the subcommittee didn't start as a as a subcommittee of the [anon_INST91] but it was correct but it was taken on board of it. It is now our subcommittee and has been for, I'd say, the guts of a year, okay if not more so it it is it is under [pause] under us if you know what I mean mhmm So who's giving the writing instructions? In practice? It's been [anon_$092] working with the subcommittee [pause] and that that was the purpose of the report to inform us today uh eh when you say writing instructions? Do you mean kind of terms of reference? And that sort of thing yeah, yeah correct yeah yeah that will be I think in practice, largely [anon_$092] drafting and bringing it to the committee, I think as a way it's been going, it's that right [anon_$092]? um just chair so essentially what we did was originally when I made a proposal as to what the [anon_INST176] could do in advance of talking to the [anon_INST176] you know, and I brought that proposal to the [anon_INST91] If I'm right, in May, I couldn't exactly be sure of the month mhmm we can confirm that. And subsequently it was May Terms of Reference were drafted by [anon_$081] who brought in in fairness [anon_$081] did 98% of the work and significant differences, then what I had proposed um in consultation with his colleagues, and that was brought to the subcommittee of the uh [anon_INST91] it was adopted at that, and then notified to the [anon_INST91] so it was corrected. Originally, it was my suggestion that maybe this would be the path to do it. But in fairness, to [anon_$081] 98% of the terms of reference were written by [anon_$081] and his uh contributions from his colleagues, [breath in] and they were uh uh adopted at the [anon_INST91] [pause] both the subcommittee of the [anon_INST91] and the [anon_INST91] entirely independently of me. So any interactions we've had since that time, has only been points of clarification, especially around legislation and stuff, the [anon_INST176] have come back, and they've sought to clarify legislation in relation to um and and uh questions about, particularly the national waste collection perimet office system. So we've engaged in um those written responses and written queries in relation to it. And I believe my staff have engaged in a couple of conversations as well outside the written questionnaire in advance of a questionnaire been sent from the [anon_INST176] just to clarify what in the wha= how to trai=communicate through the questionnaire uh the correct questions in order to get the accurate answers. So that's the extent in in relation to it. Okay, thanks very much to [anon_$092] Is that okay by [anon_$094]? Yeah I hear what [anon_S092]'s saying.Thank you. Great. Go raibh math agat Okay, great. That was item um five on the agenda. But close that off. And minute the points that uh [anon_$092] noted there that we're happy enough for them to continue, and then just to report back in here. Um now, for those who came in a a little bit later, uh the next item would normally be item six, the posters protocol, but just for some staffing reasons, we're going to skip on to item 10, and then come back to item six after that. Uh so item 10 is the [anon_PR62] Um I see you got the presentation there. Do you want to take it away? And we can take some questions after? Thanks. Thanks very much chair uh can all of you=can you all see that there the the presentation up on that? Absolutely.Yeah, that's that's great thanks very much as most of you will know my name is [anon_$095] I'm a Se=Senior Executive Engineer with [anon_INST86] [pause] and I'm the project manager for the [anon_PR62] [tuts] I'm joined today by [anon_$093] who's [anon_$096] lead and [anon_$096] are the consulting engineers on this project. So um we're here today basically on foot of a meeting we had with yourselves last March to come back to we were to come back to you on a limited number of of issues, which included the water quality model, the environmental impact assessment and the report, and also project costs. But just briefly, to recap [nreath in] why we're here today or why we're proposing doing this project, [pause] it's essentially to improve water quality within the basin, that's the [anon_PL114] It's regularly impacted by microbiological pollution. And this is particularly notable after heavy rainfall events. So our idea is removing this this this pipeline from the basin will greatly reduce pollution within it. You will have seen this slide before last year mm but just briefly to recap on it without going into great detail. At Orange on the bottom of the screen is an indication as to the line of the existing [anon_PL90] tunnel, which discharges into the inner basin and also at the top of the slide you will see a section in red. And this section of pipeline. It's actually a big box a big concrete rectangular box was constructed in 2002 And it's what we call phase one. It it was constructed under [anon_PL115] when [anon_PL115] was a brownfield site. So that's in so our proposal is to join up these pieces essentially. And uh with pipelines as shown in green. So our plan is to bring pipes through the inner basin under [anon_PL116] [pause] along the side of the [anon_PL117] under the architectural platform in front of the theater. Then we propose a culvert similar to the one in [anon_PL115] along the land there on the cam chars on [anon_PL118] we would also then join in on both ends of this existing culvert. There'll be an outfall structure at [anon_PL119]. So the pipe was moving from [pause] where my cursor is now at the bottom of the screen to the top. That's essentially that's essentially the proposal excuse me running away in here. So as I mentioned, the background to this is that we would come back to you um before we saw planning, which is which is due in in about March of this year, and we were to return to you on three items, water quality model, the environmental impact assessment report, and project costs. So as I said, [anon_$093] is here from [anon_$096] and [anon_$093] if it's alright with you, I might ask you to talk uh talk the committee through the next couple of slides. Thank you very much [anon_$095] Good afternoon, everybody. um [coughs] I'll just give you a an update on basically water quality modeling and the [anon_PR63] or [anon_PR64] that will be accompanying the planning application. Uh [anon_PR65] the [anon_PR66] they're kind of [pause] world leaders in this water quality modeling. They have produced uh a water quality model, hydraulic water quality model to assess the impacts of moving the discharge of the stormwater ou=outfall directly to the [anon_PL73] um on [anon_PL119] We used uh data on the existing water quality within the leafy [pause] the water quality in the storm water uh tunnel, that's what's actually discharging [tech noise] at the moment, the discharge rates uh within the tunnel we have recorded uh time series of lots of flows in the tunnel or and the [anon_LPL73] flow data, which we received a lot of data from the [anon_INST179] [breath in] the model projected that the change in water quality over a period of 12 months. In other words, we modeled what [pause] we predict= using the existing what we knew we modeled it and see=saw the correlation uh and actually [pause] assessed what would happen if this discharged into the [anon_PL73]. The results were then compared with uh environmental quality standards or EQs for the receiving waters uh and the receiving waters in this case would be the um [anon_PL73] uh lower estuary um and that is where we're at. In terms of the results. Uh there was no great showstoppers [pause] there's uh considerable greater dilution and flushing time available, discharging to the [anon_PL73] directly. [breath in] The results of the modeling exercise, I suppose, could be summarized as follows [pause] for the nutrients, these are the [pause] components of the discharge that could lead to uh eutrophication, in the form of possible algal blooms, etc. uh the nutrients [pause] that we measure within the water quality are dissolved in organic nitrogen, which we colloquially refer to as din and the MRP, which is basically the phosphors uh the results basically there is no discernible quality change in the achievement of the [anon_PR67] uh environmental quality standard compared to the baseline. [breath in] in other words is we will still have the same [anon_PR67] status for the [anon_PL73] after this has taken place for biological oxygen demand. Uh this is the oxygen uptake from um water due to uh the possible organic matter in it that will require um [breath in] require oxygen to [pause] uh to be assimilated, I beg your pardon to be assimilated. Again, there was seen to be no significant impact on the uh [breath in] environmental quality standard compliance beyond the mixing zone compared to the baseline. Um now, the other point we would make is and we have looked at it in terms of bacteria and microbiological quality, I I just want to say is the [anon_PL73] estuary is not a designated bathing area and consequently, there is no EQS that we have to meet for the that's appropriate however, there will be no impact on the status of the designated bathing waters around [anon_PL120] Those are the the beaches that have been assigned bathing water as status. Um the modeling exercise has shown that there will be no significant impact on water quality in the [anon_PL73] and [anon_PL120] as a result of the location of the stormwater discharge. So essentially what the water quality model has shown what we have thought of what has been self since back in the 1970s 80s 90s. That the sufficient dilution and assimilative capacity within the [anon_PL73] to accept this uh periodic discharge of um polluted um polluted discharge. Thank you [anon_$095] In terms of the [anon_PR63] uh an uh an [anon_PR64] has been prepared as part of the planning application. [pause] there are no showstoppers, [uh] no significant impacts long term have been identified. The principal impacts are construction impacts associated with major and these are standard associated with major [tech noise] construction uh projects, traffic noise nuisance, they're temporary impacts that take place while we're building the the scheme. And there is a potential impact with other uh other projects ta= being constructed at the same time. However, with appropriate mitigation, and this is standard, uh good construction uh practice [pause] contained in a [anon_PR68] sometimes called a [anon_PR69], it is not anticipated that there will be any unacceptable impacts. So it's it's all pretty good news. You know, there there's no, there's no surprises. Uh it's as we hoped and there will be no [pause] there there's no significant legacy impacts as a result of uh mo= moving the outfall. Thanks Thanks. Thanks, [anon_$093] um just briefly then on project costs. And just for your information uh with regard to previous costs um 1.6 5 million was spent in 2002 under [anon_PL115] that's the box section that was shown in red underneath the um underneath [anon_PL115] you might have seen it on you'd have seen it on the earlier slide. In our current stage we're working to a budget of 1.5 million which is split with it's important to remember this is a an [anon_PR70] as well as [anon_INST86]. So there's a 50 percent split on this these costs. And they're currently they're currently within budget and expect to be um we expect to be there towards the end of this quarter. [pause] I haven't included a slide on on on construction stage project costs. These are these are um commercially sensitive. mm What we've done with them is we have obtained the services of 2/3 party experts to provide an estimate or a prediction of the construction tender value. So both of them one was [anon_INST180] and one was was [anon_$096] [anon_$093] and his his colleagues. They produced a bill of quantities likely to be um forthcoming from a contractor or contractors and both reached a similar figure. mm that figure was then used and analyzed through an [anon_PR70] cost modeling tool, which has a lot of statistical information as to what the what the outturn would be based on the type nature and risk factors associated with the project. Along with that sum we we we've added on con con= contract outturn sum s;um sorry, in addition to that outturn, sum we've added design fees, supervision fees, licensee licensing weigh leaves, or there's ![unclear]/! management fees and overheads. [pause] and we've also incorporated at every at every point of analysis, a high risk factor. So that the figure generated is in the order of 10s of millions. [pause] it's also will be subject to inflation between now and the anticipated start date in two years. So um it's important also to note that it's 50% [anon_INST86a] and 50% [anon_PR70] [pause] um [pause] ourselves and our partners [anon_PR70]. We don't want to publicize these projected that projected costs. So if we fail to do so would would would compromise the outcome of the tender process. So um ultimately it will be the market that determines how much these the the the final costs will be. So um that thanks for your attention attention, there um to ![unclear]/! senior engineers with us along with [anon_$093] and some of our other colleagues, uh chair if you if you want to give us some questions, or however you want to proceed. Thanks very much. Um just just to say, first of all, thanks, because that was 11 minutes, I really appreciate you uh sticking sticking with the time. [breath in] um we'll take some questions now. And if there's a bunch of them, we can we can break them up into sections. But for now, [anon_$082] you've got your hand up there. Yeah. Thank you very much, Chairman. And thank you very much for the presentation. Yeah, I've been watching this with interest uh for quite some time. [pause] [breath in] while I take the point that [anon_PR70] and [anon_INST86] are splitting the costs on this um um you know um that's welcome. I just want to know, where um um [anon_INST181] are on this because as far as I know, they are they administrate and uh look after the canals and the canal basins and that particular water so so where are they in this, this particular project? uh also yeah they're+ +they're this this this is just if you don't mind you know, so, so where are they in this particular project [pause] I I wholeheartedly you know what I mean, uh do not accept that you can take a pollutant, from one part of the of the water system and throw it into [anon_PL73] and there's no impact. [anon_PL73] as it stands at the moment is a sewer if you stand at um um [anon_PL121] uh on a rainy day, the sewage simply pours in from all over the city through all of the various uh entrances into the river, [pause] to simply treat it uh in the manner in which you've described it, I think is really, really wrong. You know, I I really do not believe that you know what I mean that to treat the [anon_PL73] in this way is good. [breath in] the other aspects of it is you talk about bathing water, and you say that the [anon_PL73] is imbadeable yet there are 1000s of children on a regular basis, wo swim in it particularly North and South kids [pause] regularly, there is also [anon_PL73] which [anon_INST89] promotes. So you're contradicting yourself in many, many ways here. Because if it's a case that it's not a a a water to be swam in well, then we have to take serious actions about the other aspects of it also are when we do uh create this uh uh flow from the the the the rain waters, etc. And the pollutants into the River ah [anon_PL73] will the basin then uh become swimmable in can the kids go down to [anon_PL114] and swim down there saving us a huge amount of money, you know, for instance, in the [anon_PL122] so so why are we doing this, you understand, we're taking the pollutants out, but we seem to be putting the pollutants elsewhere. So it's a bit like taking all the plastic and all the rubbish and then throwing it into ![unclear]/! and saying, well, then they may get rid of that. But there has to be a situation where there's a negativity, I'm looking forward to reading the technical reports and data on them. But I really do think that we should, when we're taking one pollutant from one's body of water okay and putting it into another with all due respects, Chairman yeah with all due respects um we've got we got the point I think I know you know, you know, we we we need to treat the [anon_PL73] I'm really concerned Chairman. I'm very concerned that the [anon_PL73] is being treated in this way I really am. And I, I you know, it it it isn't good enough, I have to say it just it just, it just irks me, because on a number of occasions, when we had presentations in relation to the rivers, [anon_PL73] was omitted. It's such an important part of our city. And we simply can't treat it as a dumping ground. With all due respect to the job. And I wish you all the very best in it you know what I mean, but I have these concerns. Thank you. Thanks very much. Um could I ask could you stop sharing your screen there um? [anon_$095] yeah E=Excuse me just apologies there guys Thanks very much. Thanks very much. So what I'll do is, um I've got another question from [anon_$097] We'll take that and then we'll come uh go back to you if there's no further questions before then. Okay. yeah um thanks, chair And thanks, [anon_$095] for the presentation and [anon_$093] um look, uh my query is pretty much the same as as [anon_$082]'s query. [pause] we're embarking on an expensive project. And it seems [pause] sort of contradictory to think that we can move a polu=pulutant from the [anon_PL114] [pause] to the [anon_PL73] without any significant water quality effect? uh and uh what we're doing apparently, is that we're moving it not into the lifting, but we're moving it into the estuary. So where does the river stop or where does the estuary begin? And how are the tides affected? Is there a push back when the tides come? And my second question then was in relation to the other [pause] two rivers that are coming in there towards the [anon_PL73] to talk about particularly the [anon_PL123] Is there a similar type of storm water outflow coming down that direction [pause] that also comes into the um [phone beeps] into the [anon_PL73] estuary and that can have uh negative effects. Thanks. [tech noise] thanks, [anon_$097] um if there's nothing else I might pop in myself as well, uh with with just a query because I I share the concerns about [anon_PL73] but like, [pause] we have to be led by the water modeling here and the evidence, I'd have thought, you know, um there's just one sentence that you had in one of the presentations there about the [bretah in] um the the modeling. uh it says that the the [anon_PL73]'s estuary is not a designated bathing area fine. um there will be no impact on the status of designated bathing waters around [anon_PL120]. I understand it won't impact on the status, but uh just just just to make sure that that it's not a kind of a [pause] a wording issue there. Are you saying that the model showed that there's no discernible impact on the bathing waters? um out=outside [anon_PL73] estuary? Or are we just saying that the status won't be affected like? Like I'm just trying to see wha=what is [pause] the models impact on those bathing waters? That's my question. So we've got those three. Thanks. okay um th= thanks very much sure we might we might um try and answer them in in by groups just to to I might start there just to talk about [anon_PR71] and then hand over to one of my co=colleagues. Yup um in answer to uh Councillor [anon_$082]'s question with regard to [anon_PR71] they're, they're kind of a major stakeholder and player in this. And as you rightly point out that they are in control of the [anon_PL114] basin. [tuts] and they're one of the primary drivers for this jo= for this job is the pollution of their um of we'll call it their basement by we call it us and [anon_PR70] given given that it's our assets that are that are polluting the uh polluting the [anon_PL90]. So they are involved in it very, very closely take a keen interest, we meet them every month, we're in liaison with them with them um constantly um in that in that regard. So um that's really where they sit on it big supporters. Am in terms of the effect on the lithium I might I might hand hand over to [anon_$093] though making the point as I would that at present it is worth remembering that the current currently we are discharging to the inner and outer basin, which there fro=from whence it currently arrives in [anon_PL73] elsewhere. And while I don't mean to to belittle the uh possible effect of of changing something like this on our on our most you know, beloved River, um it is note it is worth noting that we are presently discharging in a in a long, long about way to the [anon_PL73] would it be okay, if I handed over to you, [anon_$093] to talk about some of the other issues there, there was um [anon_$090] mentioning about the tides and um and the pollutants um in regard to [anon_PL73] Sorry+ +thanks can I just ask about the financial contribution from [anon_INST181] are ye making any financial contribution since we're doing all this work to them at all? No no, they're not councillor no, they're not [laughs] [laughs] really interesting. That's very interesting. Yes. [laughs] Very interesting considering the uh money that they do get nationally. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, sorry. uh yeah, I'll try now to respond uh to the concerns etc. um A, that I start with the um easiest one first is was uh [anon_$090] I think was asking about the effect on the um the beaches and their status, um whether that it would be noticeable uh what we are doing whether that will change uh the beaches? um the answer to that is it's not possible to measure it's [pause] by the time we pass uh [anon_PL124] downstream of ourselves is it's virtually impossible to know any to spot any difference between what's happening now and what um was happening uh what will happen in the future, [pause] again, is the other point I would make these are uh periodic um events that that are this is a stormwater sewer, um which has is basically being used um as is all over the city quite often. You know, um as [anon_$082] said there is pollution going in, it is um an emergency for want of a better word overflow to save the um the system back up in the catchment whereby, if that becomes surcharged um and it's it's a common part of design of sewerage collection systems. The important thing I would say is then on the title element is that's our ben= that helps us what that does is that introduces a huge [tech noise] flushing etc, and improves the um How would you say the flush the the two elements, there's one, there's a massive flow in the [anon_PL73] right, um which we have passing us by compared to what we're discharging. Uh that's completely different to what's happening in the basin, the true flow within the basin is tiny. It's very small. It's it's the canal. So therefore, the effect on the basin would be much greater. And [pause] what we're saying is that [anon_PL73] has the capacity to accept this. This isn't a huge big sewage treatment works or anything. This is a storm water overflow that has periodic um how would you say short, very short term associated with high rainfall extreme rainfall events? Our model is showing that as I said, it's down= just downstream of [anon_PL124] is you cannot uh [pause] looking at the data tell [pause] spot any significant difference? Okay before and after. Thanks very much [anon_$093] and just to clar=, clarify one final point, if you don't mind me popping in um the [pause] the extension of of the [pause] of the pipeline, does that mean that there's now no outflows whatsoever within we have outflow uh [anon_PL90] going to the the the tunnel that was discharging into the inner basin is no more [pause] will be no more sorry. Okay uh one other uh is there something else I was going to say um for Councillor [anon_$082] um was uh [pause] yeah, is unfortunately, uh the the condition of [anon_PL73] uh is I would dispute that it's an open sewer, um is the the the water status under the water quality, directive, etc? um is I think it's moderate status. uh we're trying to make it good. That isn't the purpose of this. This is a tiny little contribution compared to everything upstream or whatever an hour, [pause] it basically what we have is sufficient dilution and dispersion um within [anon_73] uh it it's like [tech noise] okay Didn't make it. That's my point. Okay. Fair enough. Thank you very much, [anon_$093]. I appreciate that. [pause] uh and thanks, everyone, for coming in on that presentation. Just we've got a busy agenda. So that's 20 22 minutes we've spent so um Thank you very, very much. uh chair we might um we might leave you if that's okay we might we may absolutely yeah no problem we have a little business with our thanks collectively. Thanks, everybody. thank you Thank you very much inform us when you when you= submit your planning application when you when you submit all your documents. Thank you. Sure thank you. sure [anon_$082] will do Thanks. Councillor thank you Okay, everyone, so that was item 10 on the agenda just for those joining us uh so we finished that up so we're gonna go back to the the agenda order we were going through so we're moving on to item six, which is the posters protocol. um we've got um [anon_$098] hopefully joining us I think Welcome back [anon_$098] Hope you're doing well [pause] are you there? [silence] [tech noise] no, no sign of [anon_Bernie] yet as she is in the meeting, but uh uh muted still. I'll tell you what we might do. [pause] uh [anon_$040] you're here, aren't you [anon_$040]? [pause] yeah, you're right. I'm seven. So what we might do is we might skip item six, [anon_$093] if you would mind getting in touch with [anon_$098] and just seeing uh what the story is. And uh let's go= let's he=head on to item seven, which is the draft city development plan. And we're gonna get kind of I think, an overview [anon_$040] of of some of the climate measures in that if that's right. oh uh thanks. I just just as a by the by, I'm at home and my youngest has COVID. So if a five year old sticks her head in the background, apologies. [laughs] It's just out of my hands, at this stage you know are they doing okay? I have cartoons on I'm hoping they work. [laughs] um I'm um just going to ask if um if the team don't mind um putting the slides up for me because I just I don't have a setup um to run them here myself at the moment. So [pause] um if they don't mind sticking the slides up but anyway, I'll start talking anyway, just so that we keep on and we don't waste any time. they're on the screen now for you grand thanks a million,um just I suppose to say we're halfway through in the developing plan process and we're at a particularly key stage in the plan and that's we're out on the draft public display. um we still have an almost a year to go which is uh yeah it it's a mad time line. Um I suppose just as a recap of where where we've come from and uh the pre draft consultation process. We got over 750 submissions from the public, um which were presented to the councillors and on foot of those and um on foot of their their vision for how they saw the plan. They made over 1000 strategic directions to inform the plan. If you don't mind flipping on one slide, please. Thanks. [pause] um so, the plan then was made following these strategic directions um the staff put together the [pause] 1000 pages of development plan that uh is now on display. um and over 300 motions were then made by the councillors to amend the plan and a whole range of other changes as well, to the mapping. So that's, [breath in] I suppose, just, uh I suppose I'm gonna give a short synopsis of all of it, because climate change particularly runs through all of it, but then I'll kind of focus a little bit more back on that issue. So the core strategy um and the whole vision of the region, uh the national planning framework, and the [anon_INST182] then those figures are all informing the plan, and they set out the population and the housing numbers that the plan has to accommodate, we have to accommodate 40,000. And we have estimated in the plan that we have uh capacity for just under 50,000. So there is I suppose headroom uh there, which allows for I suppose, the risk of certain sites and certain lands not being coming available during the lifetime of the plan, we also flag with capacity to do more. um and that issue will be explored in and during the lifetime of the plan. And I suppose this is critical, because this is all about delivering housing within a sustainable environment where transport and movement all can work can coexist. And people can we can, uh I suppose, create the environment where a much more sustainable response um for the city and for the country, [tech noise] if you don't mind flicking on with the slide. Thanks. uh that's uh that's the, I suppose a map of the core strategy, which identifies the areas where I suppose the most significant amount of housing is likely to happen during the lifetime of the plan, a lot of them are very familiar to uh the [anon_PR72] areas that are across the city where and there is a whole chapter devoted to them, setting out how uh uh I suppose a strategic uh framework as to how we'd like them to be developed. Next slide, please. Thanks. So [pause] I suppose then we get stuck into it. um and that chapter three is climate action chapter. And it's written [pause] to, I suppose to ref= to reference that this is a cross cutting theme across the development plant. So within it, we actually detail how every other chapter in the plan is supporting the climate agenda. So um we were keen to do that, because I suppose it wasn't a dedicated chapter in the last plan and it was in view I suppose through the text, but to try and I suppose give greater strength and weight to what has been aimed at. um we have a dedicated chapter now on climate change, and then uh uh a much clearer uh framework setting out exactly how we see that being implemented um in in so much as land use can uh through the development plan. So there is a requirement for an en=energy statement on all all developments, over 30 units, we have a uh uh a whole series of policies on renewable energy um offshore, particularly geothermal and micro renewable energy. And there's a range of support and policies that we're planning obligations that come in, in relation to it, um in relation to is a number of policies and a significant amount of taxes in relation to district heating and sustainable energy uh is supporting decar= decarbonisation zones um that has been established. um there's a section on waste management and the importance of the circular economy, which is then again, in more detail in the infrastructure section of the plan. um the climate change section goes into the whole issue of green infrastructure and how that supports, um I suppose, both climate resilience and climate action. um and the whole uh agenda of nature based solutions, on which there's a lot more detail in further chapters, but it I suppose sets it up and sets up the principles of what we're trying to achieve and puts in objectives in relation to that. And then also policies in relation to sustainable transport, supporting the delivery of electric vehicles, particularly in relation to new bills, ensuring that standards are there that if anybody's retrofitting or or expanding a carpark that they have to put in a lot more, they have to put in a whole range of uh electric charging, [breath in] and then in relation to the built environment itself. So sustainable building materials are promoting the importance of energy efficiency, and the uh the importance of retrofitting and reuse of existing stock and buildings that we have. So that's kind of, [breath in] I suppose, in in a very short [laughs] summary form all of the issues that, um that the plan aims to, uh to, uh to have policy objectives on to support uh climate action. So if you don't mind, flicking onto the uh the the next slide for me, thanks. um just I suppose just a quick flavor of what's in the other chapters just so that it's supposed to put a context on it shaping shortcut structure of a city, I suppose supports the uh the concept of sustainable development, and it has emphasis on quality density, and it makes use of growth and development to try and drive a 15 minutes city to allow people the opportunities to walk inside, and to have the range of facilities within within a reasonable distance of where they live, and where they work. And so that they can, I suppose, engage in all those things. So that's, I suppose a core element of it. And we have zoning policies that are able to support that this greater use of mixed use, zoning spots that attends when they're above a certain size require a master plan showing how they're going to deliver the mixed use, where the uh Zed 14 which is the the regeneration site, again, there's a lot more great detail in the plan about how we deliver mixed use within those lands, again, to achieve that consolidated quality approach, the importance of urban villages is highlighted trying to promote them to have a greater diversity to get more employment into them locally, so that they survive better and they they continue to grow and to provide the the I suppose the depth of services that are needed within communities um the importance of how it is addressed um and uh and the context of of the city and and a whole range of issues. And there's criteria to go with that, if you're interested in it. And then the whole thing, I suppose the [anon_PR72] are are linked to all of that, and how how we balance the different types of housing, different types of environments, different types of community across the city. Next slide, please, thanks. and chapter five, I suppose builds on that and looks at the whole importance of integrating housing, the community infrastructure, and again, healthy placemaking, making sure uh that we design uh you know, in in the way we want the city to work so that it is safe, that it's that the pub=the public realm is is of high quality, that connections are made as direct routes to public transport has good links, and open spaces and parks. And and uh I suppose a strong emphasis within that is on regeneration and consolidation of the existing stock that we have um the importance of social inclusion. And I suppose just to because it's so uh topical, um I've included in the slides a the the whole uh I suppose the whole question of build to rent and the impacts of that that particular [pause] peaking of that of that type of uh development forum is having on the city and how I suppose we've been, I suppose, been monitoring that and in response to it we've included a number of policies to ensure greater diversity in how stock is delivered, so that we create more sustainable communities in the long term. [pause] next slide, please. [silence] Thanks, city economy retail. um again, just again, this I suppose it's linking across some of the policies, there's a lot of support in the economy chapter and um on the circular economy on having uh promoting low carbon approach and supporting key economic sectors as part of that, um uh we have a policy on I suppose, uh monitoring how tourism is delivered, ensuring that it doesn't result in intensification in particular areas and uh supporting the retail sector and and trying to bring town you know, forward and and promote it and to encourage people to make use of it. Because the city center is is the most sustainable place to engage in activity, it's got the best public transport, it's got really well uh connected, people tend not to use their cars as much when they're going to the city center. um so it's to try and en=ensure that there's a great range of reasons for people to go into town that supports the local businesses, it supports um a diversity of retail within the city center. So that's all in there, and you can skip on to the next slide. So uh moving to transport, as I was saying, heavily related to the climate change chapter in in in supporting and encouraging sustainable travel [breath in] supporting the [anon_PR73] connections. um we have uh changed the text in relation to the eastern bypass. And that's now only referring to the ![unclear]/! which is the the Southern port taxes route. [breath in] um the importance of increased uh river connectivity, again, walking and cycling, making it easier for people to get to places. um and the um the whole wrath of uh new objectives in relation to share mobility, electric vehicles, as well, and uh the use of technology within the mobility sector. So next slide, please, thank you. um and then we have a chapter on sustainable environmental infrastructure and another chapter on green infrastructure recreation, and they cover a lot of the topics that are very keen. And we've worked, I just want to say particularly thanks to to [anon_$099] [pause] for the amount of work that we've done in relation to getting the green roofs and solids strategy uh into the development plan, and then getting a very detailed appendix on both. So setting a new benchmark and standards as to what is expected of future development to help manage how the city was ge=uh grows and changes and evolves and and doing it in a way that meets the green agenda and delivers. um a much more sustainable approach to water management, we also have a whole new approach on river restoration in the plan about preserving river corridors and creating the space where where we nat um nat I can't even sayit properly natural [laughs] relation of the river. so uh so that's all new in it. And we've as I mentioned, we've a lot more detailed appendices in there, we have a policy on basins as well. um the plan is in an infrastructure assessment, which is a new requirement um under the legislation. And there's a uh whole range of policies there in relation to the sustainable waste management, and the sharing economy and promoting a green infrastructure strategy across the city and the whole uh concept of urban forests, urban greening, and the use of greening as part of our response. And as part of that the benefit the biodiversity and ecological resilience. Next slide, thanks. [pause] um just I suppose to flag it to you um that we have arranged of uh we've uh a new culture chapter and it's more just I suppose just so you're aware of it um a little bit less of an issue, but it's more I suppose for the non [anon_INST91] members just who who suppose just promoting what the development plan does, I just want to flag that we've a culture chapter and that we've arranged policies on protecting and supporting cultural venues and spaces and promoting the Irish language within the city. Next slide. Thanks. um and then zoning into development management, we have done uh uh a significant review of the mapping and there has been a number of changes there. Again, I'm just i'm not going to go into them it' much so that you know about them that you're aware of them um when you get the documentation next slides. Thanks. [pause] so that's basically it in in a nutshell um so uh if you have any questions, I suppose I went through that at 90 miles an hour to try and give time for questions if that's okay with everybody because uh figured [laughs] no fair enough there's a lot of it there. If you want to have a look at the website, um there's a whole range of the appendices. The documentations on the website. And there are a number of background papers as well, if you want to have a look at them in relation to the plan. If you have any queries afterwards, feel free to come back to me. Thanks so much [anon_$040] And thanks for doing this as well with with with the kid who's sick I can appreciate that. But that was a great whistlestop tour. um I know there was a lot of stuff councillors fed in early in the stage. And we were delighted that you took some of the [pause] uh fairly weird nonsense we threw in and actually turned it into a coherent thing to put in the plan. So I'm really appreciative of that, particularly on a electric vehicle charging, I was really glad to see that and thanks so much. um I'm sure it took great diplomacy. um we've got uh two questions. uh two hands up so far. So first, we'll go to [anon_$100] and then on to [anon_$101] um [anon_$100] do you want to pop in? Yeah, thanks very much. Thanks, [anon_$040]. And um I I find uh thi=this quite evangelical the way it's written, um don't see it really been reflected in uh reality, unfortunately, um in certainly in terms of construction, everything is promised. And then the the same business is being carried on. In particular, obviously, with the SHDs, which are in fact, just carrying on multiplied now because they introduced the deadline. And and they pay no attention whatsoever to any of what you have just so carefully worked up. And that is heart= my heart sinks. uh I don't know if you want to comment on that you might not. um the second point is it is as as uh Councillor [anon_$090] just said to [anon_$031] there that um the [pause] it it would be interesting to know uh how this version has been changed by the public consultation process. Because a lot of people put a lot of time and effort into that. And it's, again, [pause] especially the diagram that you have of the sort of green arrows rushing out into the countryside. mm So um aspirational and meaningless as to be slightly irritating [laughs] to anybody who put time into it really like especially if you lived in one of those areas, with a big splotch on top of it, say we're going to do something here. I think that that's a bit insulting really to have such um childish graphics uh for such a serious business. um and uh I don't mean to criticize the work because the work is there. That's what I'm saying. And it's fascinating to know how you took the points of the people in [anon_PL95] or wherever it might be that it's actually we're actually going to deal with that flooding problem, or we're going to improve something really artful recognition. [breath in] um and the third point is about tourism. I think COVID In particular, and climate change coming along, we have to really review what kind of tourism we're attracting into Ireland in general, but certainly into the city. [breath in] again, the idea that the magazine fort in the [anon_PL125] is just going to be another tourism ven um attractor into the heart of what we're trying to preserve as a pristine environment as far as possible for recreation [pause] of the people who live in the densest parts of the city. um again, and there isn't a tennis court to be found a public tennis court to be found this side of the city. So why another tourist [pause] facility where buses and whatever else will just rock up there and discharge the contents. um and more military history. Again, not exactly edifying. So uh just a couple of gripes there. But I mean, I know the work is being done. I'd love to see it being [laughs] realized, you know, on a day to day basis and the SH Ds are a real worry and whatever will follow them, which will be very similar I'm sure thank you Thanks [anon_$100] uh [anon_$101]? uh hi, there. Happy New Year, everybody. um thanks, [anon_$040] for that uh very quick tour around the draft development plan. [breath in] um a quick question for you. um you're probably in a better position than any of us to answer this straight off the bat. I was interested to see [pause] um about the section of nature based solutions and that includes suds sustainable urban drainage systems and green roofs, which are uh part of the same Is there anything within the development plan that's looking at rainwater harvesting for new developments. um rainwater harvesting, it's part of the hierarchy of actions for sustainable urban drainage and it provides primary collection. um the [anon_INST98] has already had uh a number of presentations from the [anon_INST183] And um [anon_$071] in particular, he was highlighting [pause] the limited opportunities for green space within um significant areas of the city center. And that green space isn't just for us to enjoy it also provides rainfall and filtration so [pause] if that's not going to be there, uh and indeed isn't in in a lot of locations, [anon_PL44] eight in particular, [breath in] we have to fall back on primary collection solutions. Like rainwater harvesting. So to get to the point again, um do you know is there anything that either recommends or brings in a policy that a a developer that's going to build a new apartment complex, as an example, has to also include rainwater harvesting. Thanks very much again for the presentation. Thanks very much, [anon_$101] And thanks, [anon_$100]. uh I think that's all the questions we have for you [anon_$040] So you're getting off fairly likely. um but uh if you want to= if you could re=reply to those, and then we might yeah finish this section up um I suppose just in in relation to the plan, the plan is a two year plan to prepare and complete. And the all of the submissions that were sent in at the pre draft stage, were all read by the team individually, each person who was writing each chapter read every submission in relation to the points that were relevant to their chapter before they wrote it. And they wrote it very much bearing in mind all of the issues raised and how important they were. um so everything that was sent in, how was thoroughly read was read at least three times, at least by the team, you know, that way to garner all of the issues and and and the perspectives of everybody in [anon_PL44] and anywhere else who made a submission. um and on top of that I'll be councillors the 1000 motions were also taken into account in drafting into chapter so the draft is now on display, is the outcome of all that research, obviously, we also have to comply with national and regional policy, um as part of that, and with a range of environmental legislation in writing it. So it is, I suppose this is a key stage, the plan itself won't actually come into being until the end of this year. So it is not impacting at the moment on planning applicatons that are received. um so I suppose new policies in the plan won't be tested in the development management sector until 2023. In relation to the green graphics, I suppose, [breath in] the [breath in] I suppose what I would say is that a graphic is trying to I suppose, represent what we're trying to achieve and the vision [breath in] um something like say, the green corridor that has been sought along the [anon_PL126] something like that is not delivered in one lifetime of one plan. It's because it's so complex, this the levels of ownership, the scale of change, and uh acquisitions, and a whole range of other issues that have to be all tied together to deliver something like that. And I suppose if we look at what has happened in [anon_PL127] and how, [pause] as those lands got developed over eight, nine year horizon, they have enabled key pieces of the green corridors in that area to be delivered, there is a setback put in with the development, so that the green corridor informed the local area plan that was designed for that area. So there was lands built into create a green connection between the canal corridor down to the [anon_PL128] the park was extended and invested in by the council from the contributions that were collected as part of that development. And I suppose those two key pieces of those two green corridors were delivered as part of that concept. And the same goes for all of the green corridors within the city, it's very easy to say, oh, it hasn't been delivered in six years. But it's not that it it it's expected that it will be but it's that that vision in those drawings is driving the individual actions and decisions, the local area plans, the master plans of each of the sites along those corridors, so that eventually they all will add up to what we seek to achieve. And I think a lot has been achieved, that vision of creating green corridors has been in the last plan and the previous one. And you know, gradually all of them are adding up to create something that will be amazing. And some of it is already amazing. And I you know, I I suppose I wo= I would argue back on saying that it's insulting, because what we have done is that we have sought to achieve the a delivery of green infrastructure in any of the major regeneration and to use them to create connections, and to deliver sustainable movement as part of that as well as uh uh seeking to to improve the quality of the local environment. And in relation to tourism, I suppose. That's it's a wider issue. And it's not always necessarily a land use issue I flagged it because it has wanted a significant employer in the city, and it can't be ignored on that basis. um it provides a huge amount of employment to a whole range of different businesses both small and large um there is a particular issue in the city at the moment with hotel developments on the clustering and as a land use plan. We have sought to address the clustering issue by adding in additional policies in relation to that um in relation to tennis courts, I mean I I don't know by the detail of where tennis courts are in the city, I know [anon_PL44] parks the city park um have invested heavily in in renovating and improving tennis courts across the city. And I'm sure if if you know if you talk to parks locally about what their plans are and what they that that hopefully you'll get a little bit of clarification. I'm going to ask [anon_$099] if he doesn't mind. I know he's in the meeting [pause] somewhere um to answer the engineering question on rainwater harvesting, there was a huge amount of work [laughs] done on on this issue and dealing with all different types of development and how they so there is a much higher bar being set as regards water management in in de=future developments there is already quite comprehensive sort of policy, but this one is, I suppose worked through and with a stronger aim to achieve a greener approach and the green and green roofs elements is um much more strengthened in this plan than previously. So it is [breath in] I suppose it It's a very complex thing, because it has like la=multi layers. You know, it involves, uh you know, water modeling and rainfall standards on the buildings, but I'm not an engineer. So I wouldn't be able to explain the absolute details, of it but what we have done is that any development, any significant development of any scale that is larger the planning application, following the de=following the adoption of this plan, will have to comply with the policies in there. And we know rainwater harvesting, as far as I'm aware is part of that. But it isn't the only part. And a lot of it is also about yeah using possibly blue roofs umusing uh [pause] uh green roofs to store water and autumn or to manage it within the development to create areas maybe I've kind of landscape to water, but uh I don't know if [anon_$099]'s there he was there earlier, I saw his face but um is he gone? um well he might explain it in more detail to you better, but um [laughs] I find it hard to get get you know yourself uh to to to go through it myself, because I'm not an engineer. But um but yeah, I mean, the between the appendices and the policy. I mean, rainwater harvesting is part of it. But the you know, there's a whole suite of of actions depending on the density of the development and how it would be resolved. But um it but it is a much higher bar than was there before. So I I I'd suggest maybe uh f you want follow up if if I that sounds to me like enough information, but if if someone wants to follow up, maybe I presume it's [anon_$040] Yeah, yeah. that's the best way to follow up there, [anon_$092] you had your hand up there for a sec. Or was it to say [pause] largely that? sorry chair we can send on the information after the meeting in relation to the rainwater and har= rainwater and harvesting initiatives we'll circulate it to the entire group for ![unclear]/! yeah that that would be great. So if if you can ask the questions [anon_$099] And then uh if you can circulate the answer, that would be appreciated. Thank you, take the pressure of [anon_$040] now considering she's minding a small child there [laughs] listen I I I think that's just if I may sorry, I had my had up there chair Oh, sure Sorry. I don't know whether it went up did it come up? that time my hand? no but go on go on go on My apologies there [pause] no, I think it's just important to emphasize, [breath in] [pause] you know, one of the most important aspects of the development plan. um and the difference between this particular development plan. And the last number of development plans that I've certainly seen [pause] is the emphasis on sustainability, the emphasis on greening the emphasis on the environment, uh the emphasis on changing people's behavior on every single level uh of of the city at every single level of society. And if you go back over the last couple of [anon_INST86] development plans, you'll see the green agenda for want for better word, coming into the plan. [breath in] now, the green agenda is ce= left, right and center to the plan. You know, and I do take the points being raised in a minute I can know about, you know, [pause] you know, the way things roll out and the way things are slow.[tech noise] But I think it's important to also remember that uh our future and our children's future and their their grandchildren's [baby cries] future, they're the ones that are going to inherit this. So I think it's, it's wise to look at it as a constitution, change behavior, in the way we behave, and the way we sustain our our city and the way we grow our city. And I I think along those lines, you know, this this particular plan, [breath in] and all the efforts that have gone into it, you know what I mean? And there are the green seats there are wor=are are are worth the effort I also think [anon_$101] makes a really, really interesting point, [pause] considering the lengths we're going to go to and the money we're going to spend on the basin, [laughs] that we're not actually saving any of this water. And think that's a point. But I just think if you look back on those the plans over the last, say, 15 years, you will see that this particular plan is a constitution and a massive change in the way we construct and the way we go about our city. And and in general, II I think we should be supportive of that. And I do understand the nitty gritties within it. You know, there's so many aspects of it. But the principle that that's here is to change and I support that change. Thanks, good man [anon_$082] fair play thanks very much. um I think that's [pause] I think that's more more more a statement of support there, [anon_$040]. um so,um thanks so much for coming, coming in. no problem And uh best of luck, and I hope hope hope hope your kid makes a speedy recovery. uh yeah no she's+ +thanks very much she's watching danger mouse so [laughs] okay she should be watching this broadcast absolutely yeah yeah [laughs] This is what she needs to be looking at. oh stop yeah [laughs] it's her future yeah I know thanks very much [anon_$040] take it easy thanks take care [coughs] So that that was um that was item seven on the agenda. And just a reminder, we al= we have completed item 10. Already, uh unfortunately, [anon_$098] who was going to do the posters protocol, which was Item six on the agenda uh can't present today. So I propose we're going to defer that uh until March. chair Yes. can I=can I come in on that yeah Just can I just finish? yeah sure I was just going to say as well that we've had to defer that several times at this point. um so I think it would be good if if if [anon_$098]'s not available that we have kind of maybe next time we can have a [pause] backup official who can talk uh with with expertise about this I know there's there are some others for sure [anon_$078] Yeah, I think he's moved on, unfortunately. But uh, yeah. uh If I'll I'll take, uh I don't know was that what you were going to say [anon_$094] or [anon_$102]? no what I was like, the report is fairly self explanatory chair yeah um in terms of what's in it, and uh it is before us. So I would propose if if members are are cool with it that we just adopt the report. [pause] I mean, [anon_$098] has put the work into it. It's, it's they're two very, very straightforward, two or three very straightforward changes to the pro= ![unclear]! protocol, I support them. So I I would propose that we stamp it But I would, I would suggest that we actually wait for [anon_$098] and we have a debate on those particular issues, because it's such an important issue. uh Councillor [anon_$094], you know, I mean, I really do I think just simply adopt it now without having to go in and ask+ yeah +questions I think it would be an error on our behalf bearing in mind Have you read the report [anon_$082] hi folks ![unclear]! this conversation I'm not in I'm not going to be cross examined by you councillor [laughs] I'm just simply saying I know you're not councillor [anon_$082] [laughs] I wouldn't dare I wouldn't dare try you would you would you'd have a go [laughs] hi excuse me I do think in all due respects no sorry Councillor Councillor You didn't put up your hand and [anon_$102] was the one who put up her hand. my apologies my apologies please thanks Thanks, Chair fairplay to you thanks a million. Um now look, uh I I understand where [anon_$094]'s coming from I had a look at the report. But I do, um I do feel that there is a couple of things that maybe, um you know, we we would want to discuss and just elaborate on. And that's why we would need a member of the litter uh management team here. It I do take into consideration also that this has been deferred, I think three times now chair, if I'm not mistaken. So I we definitely need to have somebody, you know, lined up if [anon_$098] is not available to uh take any questions that may arise, than again, we could uh we could email them in if if if if the meeting was in agreement as well. But it does it does warrant the discussion. I always um am a bit reluctant to pass um you know, documents in front of us with any changes in them without having a discussion with somebody from the team. So uh just that those points, chair, thanks a million. Thanks very much. we've got [anon_$103] And I'd like to pop in myself. And then [anon_$097] [anon_$103] Yeah, yeah. Thanks, um [anon_$090] Chair uh yeah, my my feeling on this is that uh the whole postering thing, posters are [pause] in generally generally considered as litter and exceptions to that are very narrow and should be kept as narrow as possible. So I think there should be a uh a debate on this uh with with the with the relevant officials with the experience of enforcement uh of the of the rules uh present. Thanks. [silence] Sorry, I'm still on mute. Thanks very much. uh Just before [anon_$097] might, if you don't mind, my my own quick comment was just that I had some issue which I have emailed them on. And I'll send that email again, [pause] soon to clarify just around the details that you have to list on posters, some of its set by legislation, but we just need to clarify that. Because there, there have been problems. I know, with people being targeted by very unpleasant, uh right wing groups off the back of ca=campaign posters they put up. So I just want to get get that resolved. So it would be good to talk [sneezes] with someone from the team. um [anon_$097] um Yeah, look, um my view is that we should have the presentation from [anon_$098] um that we should have a discussion on the [anon_$098]'s your own suggestion that if [anon_$098] can't make it the next time that we should put back first, but that we should certainly deal with it at fair enough that that should be the end of it. okay. Well, thanks, [anon_$094] I appreciate the suggestion for for moving along and see where you're coming from. But I think there are a few issues people want to raise. So let's let's let's defer it and um [pause] [anon_$092] and [anon_$093] if possible, just making sure that there's someone else who can [breath in] uh answer the questions because it probably wouldn't, wouldn't be overly detailed. um so we'll defer that to the March meeting. But uh I'm reluctant to do it again after that. And then we've got uh so we'll move on then. That was item seven, we just completed there. We've got uh three items remaining eight, nine, and 11. So we're still under a bit of time pressure, but we'll hopefully get through it. Up next is item eight, which is a report we get I think annually from [anon_$104] about the social housing retrofit scheme. [anon_$104] I see you there. [silence] Thanks for joining us. good afternoon [anon_$090] Do you want to take it away? You've got your 10 minutes. Yeah, I'll go just one second I'll go as quick, quickly, as I can [tech noise] absoultely can everyone hear me yeah? yeah loud and clear uh good afternoon, everyone uh [anon_$104] Senior Executive Engineer just to provide an update um on energy efficiency initiatives and improvements. [breath in] under the following programs, the boiler replacement program that are energy community schemes, and our main program, so to speak, is our energy efficiency retrofitting program [breath in] um the boiler replacement program because it does have climate initiatives and benefits to our tenants. uh under 2019 20. We did a total of 17 173 domestic boilers, obviously COVID had an impact um but operations continued throughout the course. um we're currently [pause] [breath in] in a procurement process for boiler replacements and upgrades um [tuts] which will run for four years um high level. It's estimated under [anon_INST184] our energy partner that [pause] estimated savings can range in 150 to 200 euro per [breath in] year for our tenants in addition to obviosuly the climate improvements we achieve, that's just a snapshot of a flyer that uh we do distribute to tenants just in layman's terms, so to speak to show the benefits with the new boiler replacements. [breath in] we did carry out an initiative uh in 2020 and 21. With smart heating controls there was initially a pilot project and 100 [anon_INST86a] dwellings, um an approximate [tech noise] cost of 500 Euro. uh but they were supplied and installed no costs at attendance. um both programs have been successful to date. And the remote app is included free of charge for the first 12 months and after that it's uh the tenants decision if they wish to continue with it. They are just some Instagrams or pictures of the units and what they provide to the tenants [pause] uh moving on to our Better Energy Community schemes program. We carry these out on an annual basis. They're done in uh partnership, our conjunction with [anon_INST185] um they facilitate community wide energy [loss of sound] and improvements [loss of sound] oneself. And we have nine senior citizen complexes and eight homeless sites under the program. um last year's program included 10 senior citizen complexes. They were approved in April commenced in June completed in September. um and just a footnote that we did achieve an award with [anon_INST185] in 2020 in the public sector energy leadership category. [breath in] that's just high level of the sites that were involved in our 2021 program. uh moving on to the energy efficiency retrofitting program, which I'm sure everyone's aware of at this point. [breath in] um it's designed just to recap to reduce unnecessary energy consumption greenhouse gas emissions and demands for non renewables [breath in] to our housing stock and also provides tenants with healthier living conditions and significant money savings in their heating or energy costs. [breath in] uh once again, a brief recap phase one and phase two. And as of last year it's renamed the revised [anon_$074]. [breath in] Phase one entail the following measures they obviously targeted properties a cavity wall construction um and seed cavity fill [loss of sound] installation, various attic pipes and uh tank insulation, ventilation draft boom finance cylinder lag and jackets. That phase is complete, which has seen that just in excess of 8000 units upgraded to date. uh phase two uh to avoid repe= repetition [loss of sound] contains numerous measures as phase one with the major changes external wall insulation as we're targeting uh properties of solid wall construction um it's been extended to windows and doors and heat pumps. um in this [pause] small number of cases where heat pumps mightn't be valuable due to space restrictions. [breath in] We extend our boiler replacement program to cover boiler replacements um in 2021, um [tuts] they're just some high level [loss of sound] changes as a directive from the department that we're now retrofitting to a b2 cost optimal ber standard. There has been an increase in ground support which is welcomed. We have to submit a works program for approval prior to the departments and pre we always had post BER certs but now they require pre BER certs [breath in] high level [yawns] they're just some of the challenges uh not to be negative but you know that people are aware that we're working in occupied properties so okay, whether access security and COVID obviously was a large challenge and the last two years I suppose now, um but they're just some high level for your info labor and materials is a combination of uh COVID and BREXIT utilities and general queries. Obviously we've done numerous properties a quick brief uh program case study, [tuts] I won't go through they're just the various measures and what's achieved under each measure on an overall upgrade. um [tuts] the bar chart shows the you know what's achieved on each upgrade [loss of sound] on a BER status. And that's just some more technical info. But I suppose a critical one is estimated cost savings that the tenant would achieve when going from an F to an A three rated dwelling. um on the BER of course. um that's once again just a snapshot without reading and through figures of versus old boiler and new boiler replacements. And they can only see if we're installing the heat pump, which other measures have to be employed for the heat pump to be efficient and successful. [loss of sound] in heating up the home. [loss of sound] um and then just a snap Overall, to date uh what's been achieved under the program phase one just in excess 8000 units. Phase two [breath in] is obviously more time consuming and costly with the external wall insulation. But we're basically knocking on the door of 9000 houses to date, uh an average BER improvement was an F to a D one with phase one and an F to A C one with phase two. [breath in] But obviously going forward, we're looking at a B2 rating or better uh 77% of our houses that is upgraded under the program, an estimated uh 55 point 3 million euros saved and energy bills for attendance up to the end of 2020. But it's grown year on year as it's a cumulative figure. Uh just a couple of I suppose Thank you, car=cards that there are people appreciative of the program. And going forward, we estimate 2690 houses remain under phase or well it's not phase two anymore. But that phase of the program, with a B2 or better target estimated costs [loss of sound] 83.1 million [breath in] then I'm sure retrofit budget has increased 22. Because I suppose there is a large portion, government now would have been signed into law, the [anon_PR75] in 21. And we hope funded will be you know, at least remain if not increased year on year. um it's determined by the department. And at the current rate. [pause] uh the timeframe [pause] would take a further 12 years. However, obviously it's projected increase year in year which would [loss of sound] reduce the time [loss of sound] frame. Thank you. I appreciate the time, so I just moved as quick as I could. And and you really did fly through thanks for and the thank you cards are a really nice touch definitely thanks for including that that's really the best feedback of all there. um [anon_$102] you've got your hand up uh and then [anon_$097] and then I might pop in myself. Yeah, it's it's it's not a it's not a question. It's just a couple of comments is just I I this is one of the most of um my favorite presentations that we get [anon_$104] I love to see um the work that's been done, I really do. And not only that, uh you know, I I get to hear it myself from people and to see the thank you cards up there as well, I have to agree with [anon_$090] it's it's great, because you do you do make the difference to people's homes, to people's pockets [breath in] to the environment, you know, this is one of the projects that you can actually see working you can actually feel the benefits of, and it's just one of the um the the the things that we should be doing. um I I would have absolutely agree that you know, um with the funding model that you know, the more the more we can get. It can't it can't be cut we can't we can't go backwards on this we need to be we need to be funding it as much as we can so that we can get all of the stock [pause] that we have, you know [sneezes] into a better, a better, um sorry, just just a bit of um interference there sorry. um into a better BER rating and and make sure that it's more the homes are more environmentally friendly. And obv=obviously that you know, the the cost of it as well is not is not uh tearing the pockets out of them as they say. But just to say [anon_ $104] well done um youds your team, um there the project. It deserves all the thanks because it's actually making a huge, huge difference to people's lives. Thanks, Chair. Thanks very much, [anon_$102] uh I'll move onto you [anon_$097]. uh ah thank you very much chair. and uh thanks, [anon_$104]. But that's absolutely excellent presentation. uh I think it's the first time I've seen it in um in such detail, the retrofitting program. [breath in] uh just a couple of questions. The first of all, what we have produced there is in phase one 1000 houses. uh have we done any flats? And [pause] you know, what is the total of our social commitment there in relation to the work that has to be done and sort of what sort of targets do we have? Are we going to try and have the whole retrofitting completed [pause] in terms of the [breath in] uh the social element or social housing by 2031? Or is there a shorter period or longer period um and then in relation to the phasing. [pause] I mean, if we do phase one, with a developer with a house, are we doing phase two on that and improving the quality of the insulation and the quality of the retrofitting? And of course, phase three is legal improve further. So are we doing each of those phases with different units, different houses or different flats? Or are we actually [pause] started at phase one, and then going on up to completion of phase two? And I suppose finally, [pause] um it's a fairly expensive item this and do, what sort of commitments do we have for funding to meet our targets?[tech noise] thanks [tech noise] Thanks, [anon_$097] um [anon_$082] and then myself, and then we'll go back to you, I think uh [anon_$104] thanks Chairman and thanks [anon_$104] for the presentation. uh it goes without saying like [anon_$102] says, uh you know, I mean, when people get this works done, I mean, they're they're they're so grateful. And I've seen some amazing work being done in [background noise] in places where they've gone from a cold house to a very cozy, comfortable dwelling. uh and also, I I'm aware of the of the ongoing work at ![unclear]! there you might just comment on that, because I know the work stopped there for a while. But the work that has gone there, and uh branded dwellings that have been retrofitted are just absolutely fantastic. [breath in] it's just in relation to retrofitting in general, and again, [anon_$097] makes the point about the flats, mainly where flats are extremely dilapidated, and now we're going to be doing [anon_PL129] and we're going to be doing [breath in] um all of our bond, etc. But in the meantime, you know, I mean, because it's a retrofit, what is there is there is there a way you can actually link that into Universal Access the population in the blocks of flats, and indeed the population of the country is getting older and older. And more and more infirm. And you know, the mobility issues, particularly around the house, and many people that I speak, to uh really want their bathroom removed downstairs, and so on so forth, as well as the kind of retrofit to make it all very, very cozy indeed. So could you just [pause] comment on that, and then the overall cost, you know, you could get a breakdown of where those costs actually come from, um you know, and, and, and, and, uh and, and uh how much [anon_PL42] contribute to that situation. um and and I mean I know there's a huge amount [pause] uh of work to be still done on this particular issue, you know, and, in my opinion, many of the blocks of flats that are going to be retrofitted, notwithstanding the, I suppose, the architectural conservation and the architectural potential issue around them. I mean, they're I mean, [anon_SN56], who put them together, and we saw them at the present moment would want them would want them demolished and a complete rebuild. So I think that I think there's a whole load of issues in relation to that, but well done on the retrofitting. But could you address the issue of the universal access? Because all these works have to be kind of done, I suppose in one fell swoop. Thanks. Thanks, Chairman. Thanks, [anon_$082] um [anon_$104], would you mind uh turning off your screenshare as well, just while we're there, so we can see each other abit easier thanks? [breath in] um yeah. If there's no one else on pop in quickly, and then we can we can go back to you and then then move on. I just uh definitely share the positivity. And I think look, looking at the increases in funding coming for it nationally. I know this isn't a [anon_INST86] thing, but just a small bit of my soapbox, if you don't mind. I think this is how how you do stuff with the carbon tax, right? The revenue for this comes is ![unclear]! and comes from a carbon tax. And I think if a carbon tax by itself wo=would hit would hit the very poorest. But I think if you're looking at if you take that money, and then read it, and then concentrate it on social housing on homes at risk of energy poverty, you end up with a progressive system. And this is exactly the sort of thing we should be doing. [pause] uh I I've two questions for you, [anon_$104]. One is uh we're still installing boilers, I understand it's not possible to do [pause] a retrofit to the standard where you put in a heat pump in a lot of these places. But do we have kind of an indicative period? Or do you think it's likely we'll be forced by national government to stop installing gas boilers at some point? [pause] um Because it it seems like that, you know, I I had to get one installed recently for that reason, and I I know they they have a fairly long lifespan. [breath in] um the second question is, um and this is just based on my own experiences, I I live in a in a in a private house, which I got the solar solar panels on recently. I know most of the cost for getting solar panels on for example, is the labor and getting people on site getting scaffolding up and that sort of thing. Next door to me is a was a private house but the council bottle a few years ago. um so it it just seems strange in some ways that the council is going to send someone out to do insulation works, maybe do PV whatever they're going to do with with a council home, but if it's part of a terrace, is there any way and I know this might be hassle But is there any way that the Council could open up perhaps on a cost neutral basis to others on on a terrace? uh there's not special pleading here. I've already put in my solar panels. But I'm just trying to figure out is is there a way of kind of an economy of scale if you know what I mean? If there's a tariffs of five or six houses, the council owns one or two of them, is there a way of kind of getting people in to do almost like a community retrofit or a whole terrace retrofit? um because I imagine that's going to be a problem, particularly in areas where people have bought their own Council house, and thus wouldn't be eligible for a lot of this works. So it it might be a way of kind of up upscaling a whole terrace not a not I I'm not saying it would be free. I'm just saying they they would cover the cost of it, but it might uh make it a bit more efficient. Any thoughts on that would be really welcome. Thanks. um Okay, thanks, guys, I suppose high level thanks for all your support, um to [anon_ $102] and [anon_$097] and [anon_$104] yourself, [anon_$090], um I suppose to move on to [anon_$097] question. I've scribbled down notes. But as far as phase one with the flats, I suppose just for [pause] clarity, this program is prioritized and targeted at are houses. So flats and complexes don't fall under this program. Um so [loss of sound] the end directive, the 51%, is the [anon_PR76]. And this contributes towards that, as far as the phasing of phase one and two goes that was once again a dire= a directive from the [anon_INST83], that you were not to progress to phase two, until Phase One was complete. Hence, we had to complete just in excess 8000 new or houses prior to progressing to phase two. [pause] and as far as funding from the Department goes, [pause] I can't uh [laughs] like for certainty say what the future will hold. But I suppose, as an example, last year's uh national budget was 65,000,020. That was [anon_EV28] [anon_EV] for the Midlands project. So in effect, last year's budget was 45 million this year is has been increased 85 million. But as far as what the future holds, I would hope that funding should definitely be increased, given that the climate are or the flatline is no signed into law, which in a good way puts more onus on the government to achieve it. And moving on to Councillor [anon_$082] as query with versicle court. That isn't something that's under this program. And so I'd have to look into is it city architects, that's doing works there because as I said, we primarily are targeting houses as a poor as opposed to the flat complexes. And with regards to costs, those figures obviously are projected costs, but we have hard data with actual costs against units that we upgrade. it's not a shot in the dark, so to speak. Obviously, costs do vary with [pause] you know, generally economies anyway, and uh COVID stroke Brexit does have an impact. um with how that market changes in the future. I can't say with certainty as far as what [anon_INST86a] contribute, all I can say is with this the higher increase in grant levels, it has reduced the amount of [anon_INST86a] have to contribute, but we do still have to make up a percentage of the overall works. um with regards to boilers, [anon_$090], um [tuts] don't quote me on it. But I think from 2025, there is [breath in] a directive that no new bar, no boilers um can be installed on new bills, um I have to double check as far as is that in place at present for retrofitting boilers. If it's not, it is some that's not something that's going to happen overnight. But the ultimate, I suppose target nationally is by 2050, we're carbon neutral, which in effects, nobody means no one has a boiler if we achieve that we'll see. But that's what the directive is towards. And with regards to a combination of private and um [tuts] social housing, yeah, of course, we have uh blocks where you might have 10 houses and fur of them are selves and six might be private. In short, there is no join up as in if your'e a council tenant. you'll hopefully receive the upgrade works under this program next door, if you're a private, you need to apply to [anon_INST204] for the grant limits that are available. What we do try and endeavor to do is while we have contractors in the area and it has happened if there is an interest from a private tenants, you know, they're quite you know, we invite them to talk to the contractors if they wished and gauge them directly on a private basis and achieved their grant funding from [anon_INST185] directly but at [loss of sound] present there's no formal agreement that would see a private and a public tenant upgraded under the same program. And I think that's it. But if there's any further queries so I know there's time and everything, so I'm quite happy to respond to any queries at a later date or via email or councillor questions, etc. Thank you. no thats that sounded really informative and uplifting as ever, [anon_$104] thanks, really appreciate it. sure thanks guys thank you Thank you very much. Cheers. Okay, everyone. uh I I know a couple of people have said they have to go. So in the interest of time will keep motoring on and I appreciate everyone keeping their questions short. um we've got two more items on the agenda. We've got item nine, which is the [anon_PR75] update. And then we've got item 11, which is the [anon_PR77] [anon_PR78] um I I think we'll go to Item nine first if [anon_$105] here I'm just gonna give that chair. Oh, you're doing that [anon_$106]? ah fair enough. Okay. Great. [pause] thanks, [anon_$106]. [sniffles] we can see that there now. That's great. uh so yeah, I'll just give you a quick run through. [silence] okay sorry uh so I'll just give you a quick uh overview I suppose of where we're at. We're obviously at the end of uh q4, we're collating all of the updates from the relevant departments. uh the work with the development plan is ongoing. And [anon_$040] gave ye the update earlier in terms of where we're at in terms of those milestones, and the public consultation process. And we continue, obviously, to to look at EU funding applications uh across the course of the year. uh just in relation to the challenges ahead I suppose the ![unclear]/! is obviously published, we're examining that and we're seeing the implications for us as local authorities. It's across a number of chapters. And we're trying to embed that in all of the actions that we have ongoing. Every year, at the start of the year, we sit down with each one of the relevant uh departments that are delivering, I suppose the actions, and we try upgrade those and ensure that they are compliant with all the relevant legislation, and we're meeting all of our appropriate targets. that's one area in terms of the decarbonization zones, uh we're working towards, I suppose, putting together a mechanism where we can identify what we can actually achieve under each decarbonisation zone, the pieces that are within our control, identifying the relevant uh stakeholders. So we have a template approach, we can apply it across multiple areas, and then analyze those uh areas against each other. And we're waiting on a significant amount of, I suppose, guidance as well, uh from the department. And we're we believe that that will be forthcoming in the next uh month or two. uh I suppose the key challenge with that is always going to be just transition. And I think we've touched on it there just with [anon_$104]'s uh presentation as well of how important it is that uh the people who are most affected have the opportunity as well. uh In terms of data, uh the challenge that we always have, I suppose is is correlating the data and making sure that we can quantify all of the work we're doing. And we're looking at that across a number of areas of what's the best approach and we're doing a bit of work with [anon_INST184] [anon_PL130]'s office and the department and adaptation. And suppose it's recognizing the adaptation process that we're all implementing across the plan and quantifying those. uh just in terms of engagement, uh we obviously have a [pause] significant engagement programme with the third level institutions. And across the course of last year, we saw a lot of benefit in projects that they were engaged in. And we're trying to suppose consolidate that approach, put it into a more structured and formal basis, so that we take those opportunities of identifying projects within the departments and uh getting that additional resource that's coming from uh the third level sector. uh In terms of engagement with the communities, we obviously have the [anon_PR79] uh funding, which is through the arts office, and radiates is progressing that we're monitoring to see how that is going, given the amount of community involvement in structuring that um project itself. We have the campaigners uh project, the [anon_PR80], which we're seeing that they're developing the app to influence and change lifestyle challenges. So that's ongoing, and we're expecting probably in the next six months to see uh a draft of that. We also have our food strategy, which is out currently. And it's due to be it's close the closing date, I suppose in terms of people completing that survey is the 14th of February. And then we're obviously looking at uh [anon_EV29] again, for this year. you know it was quite successful last year, and it's integrating the lessons that we're learning, I suppose from the food strategy back into that. [breath in] and our international engagement, we have the [anon_INST186] We've started that engagement process we focused initially, I suppose in the transport sector, uh we've made a presentation to them of I suppose our approach and engagement and we have the corresponding meeting this week where we're going to see you know, how they're tackling that transportation issue and sustainability [silence] quick synopsis I suppose of the work that's ongoing and the things that are planned for the year ahead. Thanks very much, [anon_$106]. [pause] that's a really useful update one of the regulars ones we get uh really appreciate it [pause] uh any questions there folks? or are we happy enough? just if I may chair chair yeah sure sure I'm sorry, I didn't put my hand there my apologies yeah [coughs]. Excuse me. I, you know, time and time again, I've raised this issue, you know, within our own organization, [anon_INST86] uh you know, bearing in mind, the social housing aspects that we have, and the many, many tenants that we have, and the many states that we have. And I would love to see you know maybe a presentation given as to what actions we are really impacting on the community, I know [anon_$073], is putting the creative process together and [anon_PR79]. And it's all it's all great. um you know, and with all due respects, I'm in a block of flats, my family are in a block of flats, my tenants are in blocks my my my constituency and blocks of flats, [pause] that that you know, are coming down. uh you know, for the for the want of a proper waste management plan, a a proper recylcing plan, no infrastructure can be blocks of flats, and [anon_PL131] there's not one place to park a bike. It's just chock a block, you know, I mean, so we're really serious. You know, what I mean, and I believe we are about climate change and and putting in actions. Surely, you know, you know, the quick wins are within our own estates in the way we deal with the waste, where we actually deal with, you know, our habits where we deal with the cars and where we actually trying to encourage the children to actually cycle by putting in sa= safe cycling and, you know, good infrastructure, secure infrastructure. But I I'm yet to see a a single plan where [anon_INST86] in its own estate of its own estate has a coherent plan to be able to impact measures right across the city. And I say chairman, I would invite you to come to [anon_PL131] [anon_PL163] you what I mean or uh uh ![unclear]/! gardens [anon_PL164] and see what people have to face on a daily basis. By the way way of rubbish mean putting a picket fence around the rubbish and the the the the waste. It's just not good enough. The stairwells [pause] are filthy, the the area is it's not a good place to live chairperson and I would aks with all due respects, [anon_PL131] you know, and and my colleagues, in [anon_INST86] and yourself, Chairman, that we try and put together a coherent plan of action for our blocks of flats. And for our our estates irrespective of the retrofitting that's going to take 15 years in [anon_PL132] but there are quick wins here. you know what I mean And again, words and terms like you know, climate justice you knwo what I mean and you know [laughs] equality, don't apply to the poor, don't apply to the working class, don't apply to those people who are, you know, marginalized in these states, and [anon_INST86] is their landlord. And this is what we're charged to do. And as I say, I I I would love to see some emphasis, you know, in in in the next while on how we actually are im=improving that situation. Thank thank you chair. Thank you councillor yeah we'll we'll go to [anon_$101] quickly, and then on to [anon_$092] [tech noise] Oh, Hi, there. um thanks a lot, [anon_$106] um just in terms of the community engagement, so uh carrying on really the same theme, as [anon_$082] was just describing there. um what are the key goals of those projects? You listed? [anon_PR79], the campaigners [anon_EV30] [anon_EV29] um what are the goals in relation to the [anon_PR75] 2021 And what are the [anon_INST147] so that we can measure any success? What what are we looking to achieve in [anon_PL42] uh with that um community engagement? And how do we know that we've achieved it? Thanks. Thanks, [anon_$101] uh [anon_$092], and then quickly back to uh [anon_$106]. Thanks very much chair, councillor uh chair, um just in relation to [anon_$082] next query in relation to it [anon_$106] doesn't have any exposure to the waste uh management in terms of the uh uh housing development. So [anon_$106] wouldn't be in a position to answer that question, uh I suppose [phone beeps] probably a councillor question would probably be the logical way that uh the councillor could um receive answers from that because he's asked questions apart from his general non [anon_INST86] um uh views uh in relation to [anon_INST167] in relation to housing and in relation to waste. So if he wants to submit specific questions, we can certainly come back with specific answers, but the majority of his questions relate to business outside the [anon_INST91] Great, thanks very much, [anon_$106] uh do you want to pop back in in particular on the on the questionnaire part? Yeah, ![unclear]/! uh I suppose the [$101]= the [anon_INST147] are similar to what we have on our own climate change action plan. And it's that uh [anon_INST147] in relation to energy reduction, and then reduction in emissions. And that's [pause] what we're monitoring I suppose when we're implementing these and seeing how the direction is being achieved when it's [pause] community driven, and obviously people have bought into it. Its energy and emissions. Okay thanks. okay [anon_$101] Thanks very much god man yeah with all due respects. Chairman, I disagree with [anon_$090] you know, I mean, this is the actual proper forum forum. This is a meeting of [anon_INST86] uh And this is about community, you know what I mean? abso= no I I'm quite entitled and I'm quite entitled to be asked those questions. And I'm a very aware after you put a question to [anon_INST86] Absolutely. So I mean, with all due respects, [anon_$092], you know what I mean? do not, you know what I mean treat me in that fashion ever again if you wouldn't mind counc=councillor ju ju Thank you very much, indeed. Thank you, councillor. Just just just to be clear, I I think what [anon_$092] doing there is is just ma=standing up for a staff member there. He's not in a position to answer I'm not attacking staff member chairman with all due respect oh I'm not and I'm not saying someone asking a question and he is not entitled to treat me in that fashion no [anon_$082] Okay, so let's just leave it at that before it gets okay fair enough that's grand that's grand um okay. um I think that's it, then [anon_$106] Thank you very much for coming in. And uh we're going to move on to the final item on the agenda then if that's okay. Thanks [anon_$106] Thanks very much. [breath in] And uh [pause] it is a report for noting, which is the waste impor= enforcement lead authorities. um I don't know who is doing this uh report, actually uh are they here? Or is it simply for noting, I do have a question on it it's for noting chairman yeah yeah um chair um uh [anon_$107] from waste management will answer any questions. Great. Okay on the yeah thanks, [anon_$107] um [anon_$108] any more+ +yeah chair you have a question yeah yeah I do. Yeah. I was just wondering if if this is this [pause] [breath in] is the appro= so just for context, the area I cover is southwestern inner city, nearly half the people live in apartments or flats of some sort and um or multi unit developments I suppose would be the question. what would it be yourselves would it be? do do you know who is the correct [pause] body because I've never been able to figure this out to go to if um a private development is not offering waste segregation be that brown bin or green bin in um an apartment building? That'd be ourselves uh but not to do with the [anon_PR77] okay uh that would be [anon_INST86] waste enforcement. But I [pause] have responsibility for that area as well. okay so if you have complaints about that, give me a shout. By all means. yeah I look forward to bothering you soon, then. Fair enough. Okay thanks very much This is a regional forum? Yes. as far as I'm aware of I get you yeah, anything like that locally, certainly get onto me. Cool I have to confess, I read the executive summary I I didn't get below [laughs] okay but ah any particular highlights you'd like to flag that you think would be useful or require Council support. I would like I just think it's it's for noting for the staff in waste enforcement throughout the country and within our region, and driven by us as a lead authority that throughout the pandemic and 2020. We were a an essential service and um managed to keep that service going with some notable kind of, um I suppose success stories in trying to deal with illegal operators. So it's just really for for your information. Fair enough. And um if there's further information wanted, or requested, or you'd like, anything further to let me know. Thanks very much, [anon_$107] And it's uh [anon_$109] has her hand up [breath in] now as well [silence] on mute myself Thanks. uh Thanks for the report. I just have a quick question in relation to um food waste separation enforcement within our uh hospitality industry um in particular, those within our remit yeah as in cafes in parks, um because I see it even in our own parks in my area where there's no act of food waste separation happening, and we're blatantly in breach of um long standing EU directives. um and I'm just wondering what, you know, what's happening around uh that particular piece of enforcement? Thank you. [coughs] I'll take that yeah. um there should be food waste at any uh public gathering like that. And as part of the application process for um that would go into C and E department um there should be a food waste uh uh program a Waste ah Plan programme. So um in the normal course of events, we would be inspecting those however, during 2020 Obviously, with the which the report deals with uh there were few of any of those events taking place when we would periodically um or on request, inspect any such uh such act=activity. Thanks, [anon_$107] And if mm like um do you do that with all the like, does that happen in the city regularly with restaurants and if we have [pause] a particular complaint about somewhere co= is it you that we email or yeah yeah or kind of um you know, just to say like it's it's really inspiring, actually to see the level of very quick compliance with the director that came into effect last July around um kitchenware. yeah um and uh but yet [pause] we're still not providing the right mechanisms. You know, everybody's investing in this compostable coffee cups and stirrers and that kind of thing. And yet, we're not insisting that the right infrastructure is in place to actually allow those to be treated in the correct manner, both in our public waste system, but also in those establishments that are complying with one directive and then ignoring another one. Yeah, I I agree. um and each business is obligated to provide such service. um we didn't, I suppose, concentrate on businesses during the pandemic. um we will again now, but we did have to acknowledge during that 2020 and into 2021, that um businesses were trying hard just to survive. [pause] um and we I suppose set our concentration on our resources in uh illegal dumping and illegal collections, etc. yeah ![unclear]! We are obligated to and uh yeah, we deal complaints, by all means any complaints about particular [pause] establishments, uh send them into us. okay great, thanks. I uh it's just like in terms of, you know, where we're at, at a national level and all the legislation that's coming through, you know, around circular economies, and that I just I, I [pause] I worry that we're not equipped to ensure [pause] that we have effective compliance across the board. But look, we can pick that up another day, [anon_$107] Yeah. Thank you. Thanks very much. We've got one more question from uh [anon_$042]. Go ahead there [anon_$042] go raibh math agut cathoirleach. Look. um [clears throat] it's a question that I asked [anon_$078] um I'd say at this stage it's two and a half years ago. um and it's a follow on from what Councillor [anon_$109] just mentioned there. um is it the case that [pause] the waste that we put into our our compostable bins so the brown bin, I suppose, isn't that the one we call it? [pause] Is it the case that the plastic compostable bags we put into line those bins and the plastic bags that we put into our little bins on our countertops This is the case that they're pulled out of the waste that goes into the brown bin because they don't compost at the same rate [pause] as the matter that's in them. [pause] It is my understanding that that is the case. [coughs] um and I just I'm concerned that we put so much emphasis on compostable cups, people think they're great buying compostable cups, [pause] but we don't seem to have the infrastructure to deal with the compostable cups. So why are we making a fool out of ourselves and a fool out of people thinking that buying um these compostable bags in super value. And the [anon_INST93] giving us compostable bags to fill up with leaves when we know for a fact that they don't compost at the same rate [pause] as the organic matter that's inserted into them. So why are we doing this? Thank you very much. chair Thanks, Councillor um [anon_$074] is that an old hand or is that a new one No, no it it's a new one I can come in after. If you wouldn't mind just popping in now. And then then we'll go back. and and finish yeah, it wa=it was more just a comment to to say that um When this [anon_INST91] was first formed, and we did our tour, we were supposed to do a tour of ![unclear]! waste facilities or one of the waste facilities. um and I think it would be really helpful if now that restrictions have eased that we might look at doing that again, and this and to maybe include [pause] a visit to the compost facility as well, [anon_$042] because that might answer a great suggestion some of your suggestion, you can see the processes very clearly. Great suggestion. That's a great call. It'd be nice to get the gang on the road again [pause] that was nice and I'd love to be invited to that chair. you'd be very welcome absolutey I have I have a particular interest. Thank you very much. I'll get you a VIP pass. Thank you very much Councillor [anon_$082] the the glamour of council life. I tell you folks. um uh [anon_$107] do you have anything you want? want Want to comment on particularly with the compost Yeah, there's probably uh councillor [anon_$042]'s uh comment and I take it on board. um and yeah, an assignment a couple of years back, I suppose the two different elements to it. If there's um collections by [pause] say the brown bin that they go to a particular facility, and segregation would take part in that. But if you're looking at compostable say cups that are um sold from cafes, takeaways, uh and you look at our infrastructure on the streets, that's all mixed and [tech noise] that doesn't get segregated. So there are different components within the the the entire, I suppose supply chain. um but yeah, definitely the suggestion at the end [tech noise] to reintroduce um uh visits to the various facilities. uh the department has facilitated that previously, and I'm sure will do again, deadly all right. Well on on on that note uh of of a promise of a future road trip hopefully, uh we might finish up the [anon_INST91] and and leave ye off there, [anon_$107] as well. So [pause] Thanks very much chair unless there's any other business, I I think we probably just uh [anon_$091] do we have a meeting date for the next one. It's always this time around [pause] You're on mute there [anon_$091]. Yeah. just give me a sceond it's the 30th isn't it? [tech noise] 30th of March will be a Wednesday. Yeah, that's fine 30th of March. 30th of March and a reminder, we agreed the time of uh half, three, half three, yeah going forward. So. uh Okay, I've got uh [anon_$101] you've got your hand up there. Yeah, yeah a very quick question um can we have an update on the training? um I think it was the December [anon_INST91] meeting, um [anon_$092] you'd said that the climate change training that all the um councillors of the [anon_INST91]s would receive? It would be yeah for it would be for all [anon_INST91] members from memory. I think that was scheduled for February. Is there an update on that? Yeah. Thanks. chair could I ask uh for a for a we're sorry I just get [pause] [anon_$92] first, if that's okay and then we'll come back yeah yeah no problem sure Thanks very much, chair Yes, [anon_$101], um [anon_$106] don't know if you can share your screen in relation to that. um the council members would have been circulated with this recently, uh we checked with just before the meeting and has been sent out to councillors say by corporate I don't know when you would have gotten it. uh but for the non council members, it would be news in relation to it. The training is beginning in uh February here. And I don't know if you can share that in terms of the dates. thanks very much uh uh [grimaces] can't now ![unclear]! no problem you're grand. I don't have the exact dates, but the councillors here would have gotten them before. uh [anon_$101] we had uh brought it. [coughs] We brought it to corporate and we got the executive backing before uh where it was brought to [anon_INST187] And my understanding is it was agreed at [anon_INST187] We've asked for a copy of the minutes from the [anon_INST187]. uh to confirm that that's the case, but uh as we're booking councillors in relation to this will be also extending it my information is m= my firm belief is that we'll be extending it to the non uh elected representative members of the [anon_INST91] as well. I was told verbally that it was agreed that the [anon_INST187] just have to get a [anon_INST187] Sorry. So therefore, um we're just waiting on that confirmation. But it is confirmation. I I don't think that was explicitly raised at the at the [anon_INST187] Now that I think of it, but I I may have missed that. But um let's, let's see, I I don't think anyone would have a problem with that for sure. no ![unclear]/! so and and once or twice, if we do have an issue, if they come back to you and say it has to be agreed at the next meeting. The [anon_INST187] has agreed matters by email before yeah with confirmation. So that's an option if there's any [tech noise] further delay there uh [anon_$082]+ +just to clarify what what happens next for myself and for [anon_$110] and [anon_$100] and all the other [anon_INST91] members] who are in in terms of training, [pause] what what will happen, how will we be notified? Well, as soon as we get confirmation from the [anon_INST187] that's what we do we refer to it in terms of the minute you know that either that it's it it once we have formal approval in relation to it. We'll extend the invitation to yourselves. We're just waiting on that formal approval before we can do it. Okay. And we'll we'll be we'll be receiving that before the next [anon_INST91] meeting in March, I I assume. Because, yes, it it's beginning to roll out at some date in February. I just can't see it on the screen ![unclear]/! sorry [anon_$092] you're grand It's about the 24th [anon_$91] is it? It's the uh some date at around that time yeah it begins. So it'll obviously take a little bit of time or whatever to get through the numbers of people we have in [anon_ INST86]. So we're not doing it all at once then, okay, it's not it's not one training course sorry there It was 25th of February 25th yeah So I I don't know how many people would be eligible in [anon_PL42] I'm imagining about 700. You know, so obviously, it'll take, you know, time to do it. It's about it's about three and a half hours per session. uh say 15 people per session, somebody doing pass Maths 20 days, four weeks, it would probably be about the timeframe. I think. I'm just I'm just thinking in terms of the smooth operation of the [anon_INST91] is not helpful if we have half of our members have received training yeah and are talking the jargon and the other half haven't you know, it's it's going to make our our job difficult. okay So we should be doing it at a similar in its similar timeframe to each other. You you you made the point we we've raised it, [anon_$110], and we'll try and get a response to you. um okay Once once it's confirmed, okay uh okay [anon_$092] if you're having difficulties with [anon_INST187] stuff, please do let me know, um [anon_$082]. [pause] and then [anon_$100] uh how you doing? tha=thanks chairman this is on any other business? could I a=ask for a report on how we're actually dealing and coping with discarded PPE uh masks and stuff. There's a huge amount of masks being dumped on the ground. When you add that to the dog dirt bags that are dumped up but the actual masks you know what I mean we were all wearing more or less. Are being discarded literally all over the place. And you know, they are a hazard in in in many respects because of the potential for contamination but they're on the street they're on, they're literally dumped everywhere. uh and they're blocking up gullies. So I wonder, could we get a report as to [coughs] how we are coping with that added litter and that added waste and and and how we actually go are going to do it into the future. Thank you. Thanks Yeah uh [anon_$092]. uh thanks very much, chair Yeah, uh [anon_$082] I'd agree with you in relation to that. Essentially, it's general waste. It's not recyclable. It's not compostable. It's not in any way it's treated as medical waste largely, obviously, the yeah medical waste coming out of specialist facilities is going for incineration, because there's a requirement for that. But what we pick up in the street is considered litter. So that's all uh mm brown black binned, if you want to call it that, and uh okay it's destroyed in in that regard. So that's a standard kind of uh procedure in relation to it in time to come then in relation to the um in relation to the segregated bins that were increasingly rolling out uh we they would still remain in the black bin at that stage, there possibly okay thanks potentially recycled but not when they're used yeah thanks. But there's no there's no plan for the future for them, you know, in terms of how we will dispose of that particular waste I mean we are separating our waste in terms of food, plastics, etc. [breath in] that doesn't seem to be a directive to the for the public to dispose of this medical, uh uh uh you know, doc=, m=medical, uh apply uh product in any way. and and I'm just concerned about it. You know what I mean? Yeah no I It is a fair thing, because I'm sure there's sto= there's stocks in households now of previously used masks. And I suppose probably we can try to get something out on social media in relation to that to ensure that they're going into the black bin. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thanks very much, uh [anon_$100] And then uh [anon_$103]. Hiya, uh thanks very much, um Chair, and everybody, for uh putting up with me. I think, uh [anon_$101], there maybe have uh not taken it too personally. But I'm just going to raise something in the last meeting. The one of the city council engineers, senior Engineer did a gave us a presentation about the changes made mainly because of COVID on [anon_PL102], and so on with um uh allowing people um [pause] develop outside onto the pavement and so on. And also uh the ci=, the the the increased number of cycle routes. Well, the=these developments are very positive in and she was, you know, very positive in her presentation. But there are downsides and I've suffered from them. They are extremely hazardous to cyclists. Like if you try and cycle down [anon_PL102]. Now there are real structures there, at kind of [pause] head level, you know, stuff sticking out into the road, if you were to hit it at speed or a car was to push you onto it, it would be quite dangerous. And it's narrowed these sort of effective roadway for the cyclists there. And there were they have put in a cycleway dedicated cycle way. They're using these little bollards, which the street sweepers cannot get inside, they're too narrow. So they are full of debris, I have a photograph I can show you [tech noise] it is disgraceful. And I have lost several tires to this already. And it's only just happening. So they either have to invest in the smallest street scraper or send a man round with a brush. But it's not um Iit it t's a downside of what are otherwise very positive things. like uh We didn't get a chance to uh raise it at all. And I actually some of this has happened to me since she made the presentation. But uh surely we have to conduct this stuff back to them before something worse happens. I I think to yeah, I I understand agree. I've read some of the si=similar issues. Am there is just two things. One, I think it that that will all be covered functionally by the transport group rather than than ourselves. Unfortunately, I know they have bought um uh a cleaner that fits in the smaller lanes. um the other thing is that uh 2022 they've announced is going to be a year where they're looking at a lot of those schemes, which are installed temporarily like plastic bollards and looking to move them into something better, more aesthetically pleasing, but also, hopefully a bit, uh a bit a bit safer and better on that front as well. um but uh if it's okay, I don't want to open up a full conversation on on bike lanes here just because none of the staff here can uh effectively No, I know and I'm a bit like [anon_$082] saying, Well, we're we're either dealing with this stuff, or we're just sitting listening in a passive way. You know, like, I I think we need to feed back as well. You know, if there is a proper way of doing that. Thanks very much. Sure thing. I I'll I'll email you in a few minutes, [anon_$100] with the [pause] the relevant head of tran= covers the transport stuff for that. And that might be a good person to email in in your capacity as an [anon_INST91] member, if that's useful. uh Thanks very much. Thanks. Thanks. Is that is that all from everyone? That's that's a fair amount of any other business so I'd be keen to finish up. Thanks thanks very much. Thanks very much, Chairman Thanks very much for doing it great thanks. Thanks [anon_$082] Thank you very much indeed chairman Thanks chair Bye bye bye Thanks, a lot Merry. January, everyone [laughs] [laughs] [silence] [anon_$092] are you still there? [anon_$092] can you hear me? okay I was the first to go. um I'm not sure why but I was the first to go on that meeting ![unclear]/! yeah I guess you were ![unclear]/! staff meeting [anon_$113], thanks for getting the livestream going um just send me the link afterwards and I'll edit it and put it in meeting notes etcetera. okay and also um we welcome um [anon_$113] today who's my uh director shadow um and is a student at [anon_INST188] [pause] [nods] Thanks for ![unclear]/! cool and ![unclear]/! [anon_$115] I noticed in your view it still says interim on your title on zoom, you might want to change that [pause]... I'm still interim that's why Oh you're still interim okay ![unclear]/! um the system works [pause] the um so it looks like uh [anon_$116] you have the first items. Yeah so regarding new hires, and anniversaries um I've been hiring for two senior front end roles one for threat insights, one for security policies uh we are we filled the security policies, it's [anon_FN102] [anon_SN51] I've linked off to his LinkedIn profile. He is located outside of [anon_PL144] starting on January 23. And he's going to be reporting to [anon_$115], you know, because obviously, [anon_$115] has taken over that team as of late. So that's amazing. I've already apologized for hiring somebody um under his [laughs] you know guidance. But he also appreciates the the work involved. uh we also have the threat insights position. uh we are on like the final steps. uh I'm hoping to be able to share news later this week about that. And that'll have a similar start date anticipated ... cool [anon_$113], you're up next uh on the on the same vein, we've got two new starters, we've got [anon_$117] who a lot of you will know. And he tends to watch these uh these videos so hi [anon_$117], and, and [anon_$118], who's uh in [anon_PL145] uh I'm very excited to get to get these two people in. And for the Americans. It's pronounced Melbourne, not Melbourne I couldn't even tell you what I said but thank you, Melbourne, Melbourne [pause] cool that's great news in uh new starts one of our big goals, expand the team. uh in celebrations, I've got a couple of them here um so the AI assist, proof of concept demo was um [pause] put out there in public. So great work by the incubation engineering team and the AI assist, the AI assisted team. uh so [anon_$119]'s team Congratulations [anon_$119] to you and your team and to the ![unclear]/! on incubation engineering. ![unclear]/! yeah ![unclear]/! got the link there ![unclear]/! it also= It is internal dogfooding. So we'd love feedback. [laughs] So anyone using the [anon_INST189] VS code extension can uh uh can basically use it ... cool yep and you can see how to use it by uh by our watching the uh short video. So also um I know I'm a little bit late to celebrate fifteen six it was released while I was out of the office, but it was still really neat to see all the great work by secure data science and governed teams. The features included [anon_INST189a] abuse rate limiting to notify administrators when a user downloads more than x repositories in y time period on demand API security scans scheduled dependency scans and the ability to manage scan results at both the uh group and subgroup levels. Noting that automatic revocation of leaked Personal Access Tokens PATS is coming soon. We're internally dog fooding. So all sorts of fun stuff out great stuff out there um and it was fun to brag about them on social media too. So thanks everyone [pause] Got the next item. But just piggybacking on on [anon_$112], one of the features that came out was the the ability to uh verify commit signatures using SSH keys uh [anon_FN103] in threat insights contributed to that feature in in code source, and he got a discretionary bonus for that and that was really good uh and and this happened a while ago I didn't announce it but we have two new maintainers in succession. uh [anon_FN104] is the backend maintainer now for [anon_INST189] and [anon_FN105] is a maintainer for database. um that's great. I'm just going to uh signal boost uh ![you know]/! we have a maintainership working group, um and [anon_FN106]'s leading that and we are still looking for more maintainers. I think at last count, they're looking for about four back end maintainers. um a trainee database maintainer if anyone's interested. uh and of course, we're we're looking for maintainers for other projects and across front end as well. um I said I would track that for [anon_$112] and q4. So if anyone in your teams uh is interested or you feel should become a maintainer uh reach out to me, let me know, I'll happily work with you to see if we can make that happen... good stuff. So in news and events, so I als= noted a number of ![unclear]/! of secure governance and data science work in this week's earnings call. So uh that was interesting. And there's a unofficial transcript of that here. So you can search for what you're working on. And you may see [anon_FN107] or [anon_FN103] uh mentioning it. It's ![kind of neat]/! either in prepared comments and or when question answers to questions from analysts. Somebody want to verbalize that [anon_FN108]'s comment [pause] Yeah, I'm I'm happy to do that. um [anon_FN108] is announcing that they they've made some changes to the model upstage, uh renaming applied ml group to now be AI assisted. And they've also added a new category to AI assisted called code suggestions, which is the maturation of the AI assist POC SIG into a product category. Wow, that's a mouthful. [laughs] huh you'll have to ask [anon_$119] what all that's about if you have any questions [pause] What's all that about [anon_$119] um ... lot of name changes but I hope this is the final one [laughs] um so what I understand is applied ml did not make much sense um and so as a group, the name as AI assisted, makes a lot more sense. um and so and and code suggestions actually says what what it's supposed to do. So so then it's a lot more easy but yep [pause] ![unclear]/! big rocks and hot issues uh wanted to repeat this, it was, I think, [anon_FN109][anon_SN52] put this in a couple of different Slack channels. Part of the reason for doing this is because people wanted more context. I know [anon_$116], for example, you mentioned that teams working on [anon_PR81] are getting a little burned out. Because they were doing it for a while, and they kind of lost sight of the why we were doing it. So it wasn't just you and people on my team. It was others as well. So [anon_FN109] put together this great video, and recorded presentation about the why on the [anon_PR81] uh he's available for questions suggesting people watch the video, and etc. So overall um good stuff there. And thanks. Thanks for bringing that up [anon_$116] in the past has good good, great feedback. That's not the only reason that [anon_FN109] did this. But it's it's one of the reasons oh I appreciate that [anon_$112], yeah, it's really cool. And I've uh passed this along to the team uh notably, it doesn't include things that are in the enterprise code base, just uh it's an alphabetical thing. There's a ![unclear]/!, you can learn more about that. But our team, specifically [anon_FN110][anon_SN53] um has helped actually reconcile and get that list of the locations. So our team and [anon_FN110] are going to be looking at uh ways to approach that and help facilitate this. Okay. So you can find that within my ![unclear]/! list if you're new to the issue. But yeah thank you I've I've put a list of I'm I'm tracking uh the engineers across ![unclear]/! growth I'm I've added a list in here. These are the issues that are assigned to our engineers. And as we close them off, um we'll complete that if there uh if anyone needs any help with that, or wants me to track um additional teams, I'm more than happy to do that across q4 as well just reach out. [pause] uh [sighs] So I think I have the the next item um So [anon_FN111] has an issue he'll he's going to mention our engineering managers. It's a sort of a continuation of the best in class conversations. But this time, he's wanting engineering managers to lead the conversation and actually reach out to the PMs um and uh ask, you know, what is it that we should be getting ready to do um if not already working on in q4, what should we be getting ready to work on in q1 um we're we're just approaching this from multiple angles. A lot of the times our PMs will already be doing this. Our engineering managers and product managers are already having these conversations. [anon_FN111]'s just asking our EMs to actually lead that conversation so we can be clear across development on what we need to be ready to work on in q1 um there's a few uh uh links I've shared there and in the dock um [anon_$120] you had a question or a comment [pause] Yeah, just around the dock where um from the compliance perspective, we felt that it didn't quite match up. So we had already started that discussion with the PM and compliance space to look at that best in class and work out what exactly that means for us and our group, but yep just for reference for everyone else. Yeah, brilliant. And I think that's why [anon_FN111]'s asking now it's just to make sure that we're all aligned on what we're um looking at doing uh [anon_$116] you have an OKR to look at, you know what, what we can get ready for and do in q1. so you're already you're already working on this um [anon_$113] you have uh an issue to OKR around unblocking big features um it's more if the conversation changes, are there other things we need to do to unblock any new features that we're talking about? So that's the sort of thing that [anon_FN111] is looking for [silence] ![unclear]/! in the hallway, anyone check out the uh open AI chat bot. It's equally amazing and scary. I ![unclear]/! I took a um I didn't put it in the notes here and I respond to um the [anonINST189] forum, uh a couple different topics, one that [anon_$113] reminded me of related to uh some questions about credit card controls, and that we use for preventing uh crypto mining. I thought I'm going to just take that person's question and put it in chat AI and see how if the answer it comes up with is better, is accurate and if so is it better than I wrote it was better than what I wrote um so uh and I've done a couple other things in it got it came up with really great answers that were absolutely wrong. But really well put together, at least in my opinion on other topics. But what about it? I don't know if anybody else has checked it out. But um looks like [anon_$120] you have thought about it at least. Yeah, I found a Chrome plugin that actually, when you do a Google search, it adds the chat GTP GPT response on the right hand side. So you can compare what Google one that comes up with. um It's really quite amazing what it what it comes up with interested to see if I can match it up with AI assist as well and get some easy coding anyway um but I did see that [anon_INST190] have blocked it for now, because of its as you mentioned [anon_$112] the [pause] well written oh they blocked it. ![unclear]/! And how did they cos you can just copy and paste things in there how did they block it I'm curious I've linked to the uh um to the post about it. But um yeah I mean ![unclear]/ ![wrong answers]/! in [anon_INST190]. Just your average contributor mostly what people raging about it this is wrong. This is big flame war. The best way to get someone to answer a question on the internet is to post the wrong answer. That's it I think I think it's discriminating against AI, just let them post the wrong somebody will come in and correct it. [laughs] Anybody else checked out or have any impressions of it it was uh it was a little laggy. today uh I think they're getting a lot more hype. I was definitely trying to play with it to see kind of what the boundaries are on it um it's definitely made sparked some interest like using that and [anon_INST191]. I'm wondering how efficient engineering managers can be, uh uh you know, jumping back into the code a little easier. So I'm curious to play with the combination of the two I saw um some examples of answers from the handbook. They were pretty good. And somebody also shared uh uh the the text of somebody who taught you to interpret bah uh shell scripts. That one was quite impressive. You know, what's going to happen now is somebody's going to um do a tiktok video with all of us being fired by chat GP, instead of by Elon we'll see you're the first one right ![unclear]/! gives you an invitation to the person who created that video um ![unclear]/! you'll be the first one because the the answer was better, right [pause] [breath in] oh um yeah, for for me, we we've been looking just at the back end how the models have been built [laughs] so really just looking into that for uh code suggestion and it is um there are just a lot of them that have uh finer details that are so important and so different. Just the way they use reinforcement learning uh which is uh really cool yeah [pause] Interesting [pause] [anon_$111] I moved a couple of your topics up to the from read only to discussion. So I thought maybe it'd be good to discuss. cool uh we've got the combined inter= interview catch ups for ![SEC]/! um data science and growth uh starting tomorrow um or tomorrow in my= Friday for APEC um here are three one hour sessions in there. um the issue link is there. They're all they should all be on the calendar um these are open to anyone. So if there are people are not directly on the on the um calendar invites um please go ahead and add them um you should be able to edit those uh invites yourself uh [anon_$116] asked a good question in that issue around expensing. um um I'll just I'll summarize that in terms of what we ex= expense, my understanding is uh that budget has been allocated at the sub department level [breath in] And so we have a lot of discretion there. The TLDR is ask your manager before you expense something to make sure it's approved um but until we we one of the suggestions was to expense some food or a beverage, [anon_$116]'s question was, well does this have to be something that you bring to the meeting um I've answered that and please, please correct me if you think I'm wrong here [anon_$112] I think no it doesn't but uh it should be coupled with attending one of the meetings or one of the one of these catch ups, and maybe bring that to the conversation and tell us how you're expensing it. So um some suggestions were expense a meal and bring it along. Not everyone wants to eat a meal in front of their colleagues while they're having a conversation another is actually go out for a meal and come back and talk about it who you took out for the meal, um what what you talked about, and and share that with the team uh a third suggestion was um buy the ingredients for a meal that you want to cook at home and come and tell us about the recipe that you chose or um what it is you're planning on cooking and the conversation [anon_$112] [![unclear]/! You encourage them, you do encourage your teams to attend if they're interested you can kind of get together in a group and just uh spend a little time together not doing work specific things... one of the interesting aspects of an all remote company spread out all over the world is things like this are important. And you get out of them what you put into them [pause] uh next item was also for me, this is something that uh [anon_$112] and I discussed um he suggested sharing um there are some useful tips and there's there's a video there on uh filtering in Gmail um really good. If you're interested in that sort of zero inbox um email policy, you can filter everything away into a subdirectory, you don't have to look at it um I try and use this right now I I haven't got a zero inbox um but the idea behind that is I'm filtering everything that I expect to come in. So anything that comes from [anon_INST189] goes into a particular directory. And what I end up seeing in my inbox is the emails that I wasn't expecting to get. And it sort of brings into top of mind um there is a video there, it's a bit long, you kind of have to um fast forward through it to get to the filtering. If anyone's interested, though, I'm I'm happy to sharing some of the filters I use on [anon_INST189] um uh to filter email yeah I would suggest making your teams know about this in case they're not using filters in Gmail, it can really help them if they're not. [anon_$121] do you know about this [anon_$121] uh I was= I've seen [anon_$121] 's email inbox. I've seen it. [laughs] I was just gonna say is there a company wide policy that we're zero inbox, I thought it was just a suggestion. It's a suggestion. labels in auto filtering can or auto filing can be very useful uh I think I mentioned this in one of my um I did mention this in one of my skip levels, uh and said what's better in many ways is unsubscribing from labels and other end projects where you don't want updates. So you don't have to create filters in the first place. So if you're getting a bunch of stuff you don't want to you're never gonna read go go deal with it at the source rather than Gmail, but um it's a tool I'm gonna I'm gonna side with [anon_$121] on that I disabled my notifications, I only receive to dos and mentions. um uh uh it was declare bankruptcy and I did have some filters uh I just yeah, maybe maybe it's time to look at it again. Maybe somebody had better filters than I did [pause] ![unclear]/! I was going to say one more comment. Um, so I don't know if you can share a screenshot of your filters as they are today. That'd be cool. Someone did that in the past and it was like much easier than trying to read through this. You're like, oh, okay, that makes sense. And even if I don't know if you can export them as well. That'd be pretty sweet ![unclear]/! um I can't do it I couldn't do it I coudn't do it in one screenshot I've made a much larger. oh no [laughs] what I'll do is and I'm not I'll I'll copy and paste a few and I put them in our um shared channel. I'll do that awesome cool [pause] that's all we had on the agenda. You know, we don't like to have meetings extending the time allocated. uh but I do want to ask uh [anon_$114] as a shadow and listening in any questions your observations you have or questions you have for the group. Oh, no no no any no questions for this one thanks S112 okay thanks [anon_$114] Okay, hello, everyone. Welcome to the product analytics pm UX weekly. Um our first agenda item is a sticky I don't know if [anon_$134] or [anon_$135] um you probably know the most about if you want to talk about that. Uh the only sticky we have is that menu discussion, but which is due uh today. But you all have been working on that. And we have a point on it that for [anon_$136} has set up. So if we can just save that for when we get to it in the agenda Cool um we have no action items. So that's always nice. Um then the next point is mine, uh the dashboard working group discussed uh the need for a high level map of all the big pieces that make up a dashboard. Um think about this as like the regions, the filters, the widgets, etc. um and also what you call those. Um so I'll share what uh product analytics has decided with the emphasis that this is all fine and subject to change, and that we're open to working with a group on on these changes. Um so yeah, I've linked to the meeting notes there um I've also asked the question, uh that I found some deprecated designs that I think I can use as like a um base for creating this these like blocks um and I just want to check if that's yeah something that I can use going forward? Um or if we need to rethink it. Um [anon_$135], you have a point there? Yeah, I think that's a good start. Because that's, I mean, that's what we've used in the proof of concept. And then that's what we based our requirements for the dashboard off of which, of course, the data began to be displayed as changed. But the regions are still accurate in terms of here. Here's where your dashboard level controls are here is where the the widgets are going to show um [pause] I would [pause] I I don't know if it's showing the editability of it. But I would say yeah, like a basic wireframe is also good to go. Like I don't know if that's something that's going to be uh [pause] quicker to do in figma or not. But I mean, just a a napkin drawing almost just to show like, here's where editability will go, here's what we plan to do as far as like editability for widgets and things like that. But uh basing something off of that is a good start, because that hasn't changed too much in terms of how we defined dashboards now, for the internal preview is what I'm trying to say. Does that make sense? Okay, great. Yeah, it does. And thanks for answering. Um yeah, [anon_$136], in terms of answering your question about would a basic wireframe, be better. I totally agree. Um my, what I envision this to be is like a super abstracted version of what we have, uh make it as easy to consume as possible. I'll start with the first iteration of just being the static view, and then create an issue and then we can discuss further on like how we can iterate this to show stuff like editability, etc. [pause] Cool That works for me, that'd be great. Great, [anon_$134], I see your Yeah, so I'll vocalize and type I'm trying to think how to ask my question um so I need to read through the meeting notes for the working group, what is the expectation of the outcomes of this working group? And our actions will take based on the decisions of the working group? Like one thing I'm uh mindful of is if since we're actively working on dashboards, does the working group come up with mandates that we have to start following with b1 and essentially, the working group is defining our requirements for us? Or is this making general guidance for [anon_INST189]? Like what what is the the purpose of the working group the outcomes and what is the action that we're going to have to take as a result Um I can give my understanding of it but um [anon_$135] [anon_$136] please also fill in um my understanding is that it is the working group is there to kind of set out the guideline or recommendation for what a dashboard should be. But it's a two way door at the moment. So there isn't a well defined um like idea of what a dashboard should be right now and we're busy contributing to that um so I think it is a healthy space and time for us to say like hey, here's what product analytics is doing um open it up to you also see what like optimize is doing and basically just reach a uh consensus so that we can deliver like consistent uh like naming and design fora for all of our dashboards... that's that's that's that's my impression as well. The working group currently as it is, I feel is generally kind of not as defined as it should be. They they're very focused on like nomenclature and things like that, but I don't think they've I know they haven't fully um and this is to no fault at all. But like they they've only just gathered like the number of different dashboards that exist in [anon_INST189], but hadn't really evaluated the full capabilities of what dashboards we have so far. And what dashboards we're building in the future, specifically calling out what product analytics and optimize are doing. Um so I think it's going to expand further, because they're kind of like on on the uh, they're asking very cursory questions like, What is the dashboard? What are things displayed on the dashboard, but like [anon_FN119] , and others have and I and [anon_FN120] has like, brought up like, well, we're going to be looking at configurable dashboards. And like, we need to define what capabilities those will like we wanted them to do, as well as like what we expect as as an organization as [anon_INST189] to be able to, like allow customers to do like when we log certain functions, is that a thing? Like do users always have like focusing on its ability of dashboards? Is every dashboard going to be customizable? Um so I feel like that that's going to expand and I guess in terms of your question about [pause] based on the current goals, and the potential for that to expand, we're at a at a interesting point where, which is something which is why [anon_FN120] and I are bringing this up is like, we have a really good opportunity for us to kind of show what we've been working on and help influence that and like, say, like, here, here are our needs, and here's what we think we need, um and get their feedback on it to see if they agree, but also then work with them to say, hey, like, do you agree on the naming for these things? Or conceptually, do you agree with that, so that we can help contribute to that instead of it feeling like the working group is determining things and we have to come back to it later on in a different revision and like, update it, to be in accordance with it. So I would say we have a good opportunity to just like collaborate and and reduce that uh uh the chance of that happening, if that makes sense. Okay yeah, that helps. Thanks. And I'll I'll read through the full set of meeting notes and I'll uh I'll ping you all, if I have questions. Yeah, there are recordings for both. So it uh yeah should be fairly easy to catch up on. [pause] So my the next point, unless anyone else has anything further to discuss on that? No, uh my next point was the uh just to touch base around the menu structure issue that we have from our last meeting. Um it feels like we're very close to final agreement. Um at which point, we need to start adding epics and issues against each of these screens as per our to do's on that issue. Um so I just wanted to see if anyone had anything they'd like to discuss. Um I started it off with a question around if we're going to need any tabs. Um [anon_$134] it sounds like you have a perfectly valid point to vocalize on that one. Yeah, so your proposed structure, [anon_$136] I really like it in terms of how the buttons and the screens are laid out, it didn't seem to me like tabs would be appropriate for any of the things that are listed there that we'd want to split it up on um in in general, I feel like tabs are a good way to represent a similar sort of workflow with a different axis of data. But that's not what any of this proposed structure is. So um none of this to me jumped out as this should be a tab rather than a new screen. I dunno if others felt differently. Uh I agree with you that tab, I can see tabs being useful maybe on an advanced dashboards, once we get to like version four schema [laughs] to have dashboardable da= tabable dashboards to get different angles on the same sort of data structures um without overly crowding one dashboard. Um but I don't see any particular action right now that makes sense as a tab, possibly query designer, you could have a dashboard as a as like the dashboard and then have a second tab where you go to the query designer and changes to the query designer reflected immediately in the dashboard and stuff. But that is [breath in] possible much. I don't see that as an immediate requirement. And nor do I see it as something that um is a blocker or, or something that necessarily needs to be considered for this initial structure that we're trying to push forward. Mm Agreed. And that's actually a good segue into my next point about query designer. I feel like we should make this more prominent in the menu structure than it currently is. Uh one of the workflows we will see users following is I have a bunch of raw data. I don't really know what's in the data to be able to create a dashboard to display it. I want to explore my data first. And the query designer is a great way to be able to explore that data dynamically. So I feel like we should make this more prominent. Uh a proposed solution let me know what you all think, is moving the the button query designer, um and I put this on the agenda as well, basically moving it up one level. So you'd have the top level dashboard screen, then you'd have the button to do instrumentation, create a new dashboard, or look at the query designer directly there, and then your individual dashboard listing would be there. [pause] Is query designer a good name. [pause] Uh different question. okay Whatever we call ignore me more terminology called query designer yeah that's what I'm talking about uh yes but we could probably call it something different. But that's a different My my yeah, that's fair sorry my initial sorry. Go ahead Yeah. No, no, go ahead. I was just gonna say my, [coughs] my more relevant thought, while you were talking was uh almost lost it um do we have to support additional workflows, depending on how you access the query designer? Because basically, what I'm thinking is like, if you hit query designer from a specific dashboard, it has like this button saying add to dashboard, right? So the context is there that like if you're in audience, for example, and then you hit query designer, you are effectively exploring data, but then with the intent to add that widget or visual or widget to the audience dashboard? If we take that out, do we have to support an additional workflow of like, okay, you're at a dashboard, but now you have to pick which dashboard? Um and then like, how does that save things uh that becomes a much more complex workflow, especially given now that the query designer has no way of actually saving or adding to dashboards. So I guess that's a really long way, because I'm processing it myself, that if it's within the dashboard, we can we know which YAMO file to go to. And I think that would simplify things from a technical implementation point of view, if we pull it out, which I which I agree would make sense to like, kind of highlight and bring out on its own. That might, that sounds like it should be a separate iteration, because we're gonna have to support a little bit more of a complex workflow in terms of how you actually apply that to dashboards and save it to their respective Yamo files, if that makes sense. That is exactly what I wanted to bring up. Um this feels like a good second blank iteration on this feature. Um because yeah, managing those contexts about like, where do you want to save this, how we're going to present that and some stuff like the UX, how are you going to pull that on the front end, um that's quite a bit of added complexity...That I would, I would think, would be better maybe for a secondary iteration. [pause] I would second the second iteration, I can see this being useful in in terms of our MR Workflow approach, you click No, go straight to query designer, you fill out your query, and then you press create, and it goes creating or editing. And it pre fills the query designer with all your queries that you've already written. Sort of thing um [breath in] as to whether to bring it up, I feel like we could have the button in both places. So also, in the menu itself, you're saying or? I mean, the button on the dashboard level as well as on the individual level? Because right now, Ah okay it's disassociated entirely from the flow right but it is a valid point that we should make it more discoverable, at least initially. And it's an easy win, um for us to just have that button in existence, if that makes sense. Because it's not associated to any one particular flow right now. Okay When the next iteration when we start adding it to into the flow, that's when we want to Okay [anon_$136] can you just clarify what that button is. Because I'm not sure about if you're talking about the menu item button or the button on the dashboard screen, button on the dashboard screen. It's outside the menu system as per the right document that note And so on the dashboard screen, are you saying the individual dashboards or in addition to the individual dashboards, all the dashboard listview, as well? Yeah, both Okay, because the dashboard listview kind of approaches the same issue with yeah kind of where it's like you don't have any linked dashboard to it, then you have to support like, if you hit add to dashboard, where does it go um Well, so for this one, remember, the problem we're trying to solve here is discoverability of what's in the dataset, if what we iterate towards is a different experience for this uh dashboard, individual dashboard list version of query designer and the individual dashboard, context, query designer being different experiences. That's okay. Uh it's the discoverability problem. That's really the the top of my mind right now for this, right. And so the more discoverability we go for, whether it's the dashboard listed view, or the menu bar, uh the menu link, that I feel like would have additional complexity than what even we plan to play into the query designer to link it back to like actually adding and inserting into dashboards. So I agree like, we should go for as much discoverability for this. But the the further we bring it out, the more prominent we make it, the more work we do have to accomplish to get there. So like, in terms of iteration and efficiency, I don't know if that's something we want to gun for uh or aim for. As part of Well, I'm, I'm primarily concerned about user workflow problems here less so on our ease of implementation, necessarily, if it is hard to implement, let's find ways to pare it back. Simple solution, let's just remove the Save save button and you only get the GUI designer and the Code tab, then we don't have any sort of context or anything needed. And it's still going to be discoverable at that top level as the button. Okay, but you're saying you're concerned about discoverability, but also concerned about user experience. But the more the more discoverable we make it the more complex it is to like, make sure that user experience is I guess, as easy as possible. So they kind of have to kind of work against each other. I feel like um but I guess I don't follow. I don't follow your point there um I guess I guess that so you're, well, you're willing to cut functionality from query designer to get it out? As as much as possible? Is that Is that what you're aiming for? Well so I don't believe we're cutting functionality for this because we don't have any sort of save experience today to go from Code tab, MR And Yamo, file, enter and MR To save Correct. Our existing functionality that we've seen in the demos is just the GUI designer in the Code tab. What I'm proposing is just instead of making that be... instead of making that uh experience live underneath each individual dashboard, moving that to the the top level dashboard screen, like there's right I don't believe there's any sort of individual dashboard context required for what we we we plan to imminently intend to call this out in the last few demos to like add that saving functionality. And that as as it's currently demoing is within the individual dashboard. So my understanding, and I know [anon_FN121] has started to put some ethics together for this, and we need to define that is that we are wanting to get to that point of saving or adding to a dashboard very soon. If we bring this out, I think that would change that and would increase the scope of being able to see that functionality. And then you were saying I think earlier that if we can bring it out to make it even more discoverable, but then remove the add to dashboard functionality, then I think that changes the direction that I would assume that [anon_FN121] was heading towards. Um maybe it maybe it's a better discussion to have, I I guess uh I guess I'm not sure where to go from here. Because I agree like it'd be great to to um bring it out, like make it more discoverable. But also, we don't have a good idea of how well this query designer is defined. So it's hard to like make that decision. I feel like right now um if that makes sense Yeah the thing that [anon_$134] brought up also made me think of what we do for our hard coded dashboards, because it will probably be a similar experience where if you can use the query designer, you can use it, but you can't save it. Um so you'll you'll have the code output, but you won't ever be able to write to the file. So that's a whole thing. We'll have to figure out I guess. Yeah. And that's that's my understanding of like, what we want to figure out sooner rather than later. I guess my question to you, sorry [anon_$136] did you want to vocalize I I feel like there's a the issue here is that the query designer is being built [pause] um without any kind of UX or product, necessarily deep dive input, we're not thinking about the problem, before we're building the problem. We're just building the solution um which is definitely one way to go just to get it out there but isn't necessarily going to be conducive to integration with the rest of the system that we're necessarily building, which is now we're starting to feel that tension. Right? Like right now there's [anon_$134] says we could, what we've said already is we could literally just take this exact crude designer that [anon_FN121] has put a lot of effort into, and just put it on two different levels. We don't have, uh you know uh we could put it on the on the dashboards and on the individuals right now all it does is uh allow you to discover data and visualizations that you can use with that data, because you could then put into dashboards, but we don't yet have any ability to take our static dashboards that we've that we're coding with a milestone into interpretation that we're not going to be changing that yet for a while um uh into a saveable environment. We've not even discussed the user flow on how to go from a static dashboard into a saveable dashboard, or how to create new ones yet. So it feels like we we're putting the cart before the horse in terms of the query designer, um so yeah we're very we're eval= we're evaluating it based on like, what how it exists currently, but we have no visibility into uh and, there's no clearly defined visibility into like, where it intends to go, I'm just going off of what [anon_FN121] has said in terms of he really wants us to be able to save the dashboards. But that opens up a host of other questions. So I just feel like discussing this menu item is a question that's based on an answer we don't yet have, if that makes sense. But I guess my question to you, [anon_$134] is like, do you feel strongly that this is something that we would have as a first iteration like when we when we do expose query designer do would you prefer to have this like, at the at the at the forefront? is that is something worth noting so that we can help shape the direction of where the query designer is going to go um Yeah, I I feel that we need to have the ability to explore the data be something that's easy to get to without having to require the user to go through multiple clicks through different screens to get there easily. And that's actually why I asked about the name because I feel like query designers intent on like, specifically for like, building the dashboard versus like I was thinking of Data Explorer, which is, I I think, similar, but a different purpose of just literally playing with the data with no intent to actually say that anywhere. You can marry the two eventually. But that's why I asked about the naming um but yeah Well, and part of since we are getting a bit turned around on what like individual query designer requirements are going to look like and that we have all these questions, we still need to uh agree answer um part of the reason remember, we're doing this proposed menu structure is so that we have a more concrete proposal to go back and talk with the rest of the UX org with about our left sidebar discussion as well. So I I think this is a good point to call out that we're having some friction on this topic. But also, we don't necessarily have to solve this question today, necessarily, if we have an open question around it, we can put that in our proposal for the information architecture, and move the other thread forward in orthogonally. To while we figure out what are we going to do for this specific topic? uh Yeah remind everyone on that part No, I mean, that if anything that kind of proves my point from last time about like, yeah, we have four items right now. But we're, as we were literally, like thinking up of uh another feature like, yeah, there's our fifth one. So. [laughs] [pause] Um okay, well, so let's put let's put a pin on this and come back to it, then. Um we can get we need to get requirements put together for that. Um another question I had on this proposal is funnel analysis. Right now we're, that's proposed to be a widget that goes on an individual dashboard, do we need a top level menu item for this, what's going to go there, uh that wouldn't be covered by the individual widget and the file backed configuration for that. Uh you need a way to define those funnels. Um and ultimately, that creates a schema and cube. And that I think would be what you would select from that funnel widget. So um uh to be fair, like I quite literally just like thought of that in the call with [anon_$136], because I haven't really thought through how funnel designers are going to work because we know we want to get to it, but we haven't yet. But I do feel like there is a bit of a designer or workflow of sorts where you will have to like, want to give a little bit more functionality or or breathing room to to set up those funnels um and not be constrained to a widget container, if that makes sense. So we will need some sort of editor experience around there, uh beyond just what's available in the YAML schema. That is That is my theory because that will contribute to the Yamo schema or a different YAML schema or actually interface with cube to actually set up that schema. Um yeah uh gosh, they're all schemas, everything's schemas, um there will be a workflow where we have to save those synchronize that to cube so that it can be reported on um by by the user. So like that's, that's the first one. And I also feel like, uh as part of I think we're out of time, um but as part of viewing a funnel in the dashboard, I would imagine there will be some type of like in depth analysis that you would want to do specifically for like, think perhaps it's a it's a pre baked in depth funnel view of like, here's why things are converting or you can dive deeper into that. And that's potentially another item that I would expect to see in like the funnel analysis, um or I guess it could potentially exist as its own another dashboard, but um those are just kind of like off the top of my head like why we would eventually need a section um for funnel analysis Okay, cool. Yeah, no, that makes sense. um well, since we are out of time in terms of next steps, uh if we have other feedback on this, let's go async for this. But um what I think we need to do for an action item before the close of week is to reply back on that left sidebar organization issue with the broader UX folks to reengage on that discussion now that we have a more concrete proposal. Um do you think? Well, I guess does anyone have any other comments, we want to discuss async? Or are we good to move to that other thread now?... We need to add the issues such epics links to the different menus. But other than that, if we're okay, with the general top level structure, even if we don't have an exact agreement on the finer details like within those, then I think that's fine. Just proving we've got a minimum of four unique pages that we need is what we want to prove, isn't it? Correct Yeah and I'm all on board with what we've got so far, including the query designer, um how we get there is a different question. But like, I I agree, like, generally, like we should feature that more prominently. Okay, cool. Well, let's try and get the uh I'll spend some time today or if other folks want to do it before close of business today to add links here. And I'll plan to put that comment back to the other issue tomorrow, then, um unless anyone pings and says, Hey, we should chat about something before then. [pause] Great Anything else? All right. Sounds good. Thanks. Sounds good. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, Okay plan weekly sync uh seventh of December 2022. [anon_FN124]'s first, but I don't think she's on the call. Okay, no okay. So I'll verbalize uh is [anon_FN125] on the call? No. Okay, [laughs] so we welcome well welcoming, [anpn_FN125] [anon_SN55] async then. Uh so okay, this is really for everyone else's benefit then So yeah, we're welcoming [anon_FN125] [anon_SN55] as the first front end engineer on certify. And hopefully he can fill in all these fields async. And uh yeah, I don't know, maybe we'll hear from him in the next meeting um It's his first week, he's probably still on page one of the to dos that you get when you join. So it's fine uh I think we're straight into demos then um are we starting with [anon_FN126]? Oh, no [laughs]. I thought I had more time. I thought we were gonna have more of an intro. Um alright, I can [anon_FN126] is it's super late um for her. So I'll, I'll take care of this demo for her. And this is my first time running through it. So it'll be a nice, fun, real live demo. Uh [humming] Okay um so this is around the viewing of the activity and system notes. Um if you all caught the recording last week, [anon_FN126] demoed um just viewing the activity and system notes. goal for this previous week was to um hit the ability to sort which um she took care of. Um there's a little bit of backstage uh work done around the widget on the front end, um which took uh the majority of the week and is still uh still being worked on. But uh yesterday she was able to get the uh sorting into her draft MR um So it's not ready yet on staging or production. But it is available in her in her branch. So as you see here, hopefully, um I am in an objective. We have some system notes. Just uh just three here um it defaults to oldest first. My first time clicking on this. Oh yeah. And it sorts the newest first, let's see if um what happens if we add another do that [pause] okay, it added it to there um and that is not sorted? Correct. oh it is is this the other way around? This first? Yeah. Okay. So it looks like we just need to reverse that um but it did do it in the right order, which is great. Let's see if we [pause] can do that. It seems to resort it whenever. Yeah yeah it does did it change this? Did you notice if it changed the action? No. I think it oh maybe it didn't change it. Okay. Alright, so uh some tweaks that need to be done around the um around the addition within uh an objective but we do have the sorting ability there um let's see if [muttering] that may be on my side. All right, maybe we can test a key result on this MR may just be on my environment. Okay, is that is that widget meant to be below the uh list of system notes? No, I think uh it's a bug uh. We we need to address it to account for system notes. Basically, it needs to be right below description [pause] should it always be below description, then? Yeah, so the original designs that we have for tree widget uh is uh similar to how we do other widget types where children items are always after description but below discussions and systems [pause] Cool. Yeah. Do we have a we do have a design with all of the widgets for and objectives done. Right? Like everything should be. That's here status, assign these labels and milestone should be above description, which should be above the child objectives, which should be above the activity on notes. Yep, I can attach it to the agenda. Cool Yeah, they sent a link to the issue, which contains all the design, so you can refer to it I think. Cool any other questions? [silence] All right. Okay, so the next um item for the OKR management demos was around comments, um which we don't have anything on the UI to show today. Unless I was going to put you on the spot. You want to show the response of comments? Do you have anything easily available locally? Or is that the back end? The API is in production now. So we could technically test on um on staging or production. But do you want to show uh getting comments in widget form through Graph QL? You don't have to if you don't want to? Because again, I'm putting you on the spot it's first time I'm mentioning it to you. Uh what it was for me, right? Yeah. Okay. Uh we can move that down to the later on. And I'll prepare something [pause] because I don't have anything ready yeah, I didn't know uh we'd want to demo that. So. Okay yeah. Let's move on to the next one. And then if like I said we don't have to demo it. It's just showing it in well here actually, I can do it together right. Now. Let's see how quickly I can. [pause] Do you remember the URI um [pause] What would it be under project? [mumbling] Na I don't want to make you all watch me type. So yeah, well, we'll skip to [anon_$141]'s read only? Or do you want to voice that [anon_$141]? Yeah. So I'll I'll verbalize so there isn't any uh significant progress as far as Tree View front end is concerned. Uh although last time I did share that uh we have a couple of backend MRs has a dependency for front end to move ahead. So all the back end, MRs got merged. So in terms of uh dependencies, we are unblocked uh for the preview. But I I plan to have next week's uh plan weekly to demo basically uh showing off other attributes within preview, which includes uh label milestone and uh assignees. So yeah, nothing to demo for hierarchy widget as of now. Next one would be uh [anon_$144] progress visit. Yeah, I think um I mean, my de= I can give a demo on UI site on my local instance uh but uh they're not they're mostly not ready for review yet uh um [anon_$140] if you want me to take over I can take over [pause] can I replace your screen? Yeah great [silence] Are you guys able to see my screen? Which has an MR. Yes. Yeah. So this milestone I've been working on adding progress widget for work items, as part of the initial step was to add a separate table for progress widget and that has been done in this MR. And it got merged today. I was out for a couple of days uh this week earlier this week uh so there was some delay. So the in this MR we have added a table we have added a widget class uh to be an EE only widget and then I also made uh the query Graph QL query also available to fetch progress widgets, right and then I picked up this small that small piece of item today, which was uh raised by [anon_FN127], uh where from the dashboard issues, if you click on an objective uh user is being navigated to issues new page. Uh so I fixed this, uh I've raised an MR uh waiting for the review. And then lastly, coming to the demo part. So inside objective, here is how progress widget is going to look like. We currently have a back end validation for this value to be between zero and 100 uh so I can actually go ahead and change this to some 59. Or and just leave it, it gets saved. I've introduced the mutation as well uh let's verify this by reloading the page. Yeah, it staying at 59. However, there is some minor bug in this, which I'm working on. So hence, the the MR of this is still in draft mode, I still need to write couple of test cases as well. Once I test it end to end completely uh by end of this week, I'll split this Mr into front end exclusive as well as backend exclusive so that the graphical changes can go first. And then we can uh push the front end widgets. So once this is done, the only piece that will be pending as part of progress widget is uh uh handling the roll ups. So we need to write logic to support roll ups. Um yeah, I'll open up a discussion thread to finalize how I want to take it forward but high level I just want to go forward with after update or after after update hooks at database level uh but yeah, we can take it async once I open up the discussions MR any questions? Uh you said there is uh back end validation. But on the front end, do we limit it with a maximum of 100? Because I see that's type number, right. So we can set maximum 100. And it won't allow us to go above 100 on front end too. So we have double validation in this particular case. Oh, that's great. I did not know that. Thanks for uh letting me know [giggles] No problem, just a little suggestion. Out of curiosity, uh backend MR issues are displayed when you now update this to some invalid value, for example, to 200 or something like that. Hi, yeah, so if I upgrade it to 200 back end is not currently raising any error, the value still stays here. But if I refresh this page, it goes back to the previous value. I just raised a comment to [anon_FN128]'s asking if I'm doing something maybe I messed up something in the mutation uh yeah so this is the bug that I was talking about. So it's not completely implemented. Okay, well, thanks. There should be a list of MRs returned from backend with uh population errors. So it shouldn't be possible to just display them I hope Oh yeah here is a question that I raised just now um yeah a bit of an unrelated question, but in general for these work item widgets we don't have any loading indicator or saving indicator right now. I mean, while trying to stay more, you were unsure if this got saved, although you implemented it, how's it even for our users? So should we add some notification or something that indicates that this could save to the server? [pause] Mm good one I, I'll leave it uh for if anyone wants to give it Uh it's not about OKRs only so it's a general question. So if if I'm just playing with status here, if I just click closed here, ![unclear]/! is going into blurred phase for a fraction of second and then it is coming back alive uh which is a slight indicator of the value added in the backend. It might not be that straightforward. uh I would Yeah. For progress and labels. There is nothing of that sort at this moment. Yeah. And in the sidebar right now. Sorry, go ahead It was an intention that we don't have any loading indicator on assignees or labels. And it's as smooth as possible. So we don't block users and changing. And I think it was also agreed with UX team to have a really smooth user interface without multiple audience states that block users from different interactions. Yeah, we should indicate if it fails, probably, but like, we we can probably take the assumption that it's like, you know, kind of optimistically exceed you know, succeeds, but we do need to indicate if it's not actually true. [pause] Alright then um just one thing, when you create the discussion issue for roll ups, um if you could link it in the agenda or in Slack, because I think there there's going to be other implications around roll ups. because we're in the process of trying to figure that out with other things like waits and um uh waits for iterations and milestones, uh etcetera Sure once I have that ready, I'll ping in the channel. Cool thank you. Okay, awesome demos um let's go ahead and let's not show the comments stuff um yet. We'll wait till next week to show it on the on the UI. So we can go ahead and move to [anon_$145]'s demo. Okay, thank you. um ... Yeah, I think it's this one. So what we, what I've implemented is the ability to specify attributes for an image so that it can be resized. So for the example here, this is pulling an image from our uh our press kit. And this is what we get, typically. But if I come here and add width equals 100%. Well, let's put the right bracket in there. Preview, and there we go. Full Size. Or if I remove the preset, and it'll default to pixel size, then he gets really small. So this is actually available in in production on our group. um but we can't enable it uh uh product wide yet because the um content editor doesn't understand the widths and heights if they don't understand the syntax or so there's a bug there and a little bit of work that needs to get done there. Any questions? You're gonna make people very happy with that, [anon_$145} I think you just changed my life right there. [laughs] Cool. Yeah, it's nice. It's was much it was much easier, at least at this this small level than than I expected previously. So cool. [pause] Okay, I'm I'm done if there's unless there's other questions. [silence] [anon_$146] you're up Yes. uh so this demo won't be new for those of you who attended the application performance session. But for the rest of us. Let's have a chat. So this is a quick update on our front end caching OPR that we have. And here you can see the list [tech noise] of issues on the previous demo, you probably seen how they were cached. But caching is easy. Cash navigation is complicated. So currently, what happens here? uh first of all, we cache per query now, not per applicant, not per application like it was previously. So we cache only the issue list query and labels for now. How does it work right now again, uh first, we display the cached version of the list. And after this, there is a request in the background that brings us the actual version of the issue list. So let's make a quick test here. Let's create a new issue. New issue. Nine, as you can see, I have problems with the second part of development challenge, which is naming so I just name them with numbers. Let's create this issue and go to the issue list. So you can see there will be new issue eight for a brief moment when my application is making the request to the server, we chose new issue eight and then new issue nine appears without any kind of loading things. And it's really fast. So this part is cached labels are also cached. But for example, I don't cache assignees. We are always selective about it, you can see that we're fetching assignees in the list. But if I go to labels [pause] there is still a little pause. It's not a loading. It's just some amount of time when we're re=rendering labels. But there is a little bug and already created an issue not even a bug. That's a limitation of our filter search. The problem here is in the filtered search, it's really hard to update the list of the labels after we returned them first time from the cache. What does it mean for us? Let's go We're going to create a new label. Let's create A2. So it's also in the top of the list with some greenish color. And come back to our issue list. So first time, when I show the labels list, there won't be A2 here. Because in the background, I'm still sending the request. But due again, to the limitations of the filtered search that uses promise based queries, for the first time, it's not displayed here, it will be only displayed and user opens the drop down the second time. And that's why I created this issue by recommendation from [anon_$139] to discuss it with the UX team until we find a proper solution to this problem on the technical level, that was basically it. Any questions? Yeah, it's worth noting as well, that like it is a trade off. So the current experience, for example, if you load this list of labels on the [anon_WWS12] group issues list, it can take eight seconds sometimes, which is like, completely frustrating and really interrupts people's workloads. So I think it is a balance anyway, we have to like consider, like, which is the greater evil, right that like, How often do you add labels really like new labels that this would be frustrating for people? And then since it's fixed anyway, that when you open a new list, like maybe it's not such a big deal? But uh yeah, any feedback? Yeah, that was my [sighs] that was, if we were to go into this. uh [anon_$146] I saw your issue this morning. uh uh in in sort of researching um, do=doing an actual uh research effort on this, it would be probably centered around uh standard workflow and inserting new labels. Is that a common thing? um is it worth the trade off? uh for us to get the performance back? uh versus having that new label visible the very first time? um I personally have no inkling right now [laughs] about that. uh quick, quick question, is it [pause] that that will appear that problem will appear for everybody when a labels that is that correct? Yes, because it's from your organization, each person across the organization will experience that. Because ![unclear]/! yes that that's that's correct yes for the first time they open the dropdown, they will see the cached version. And only for the second time, they will see the proper version. So yeah, if for every single person because it's front end caching, so it happens on the client. I mean, we just to play devil's advocate, we play, we change labels, quite often in our organization. So um as soon as that's that's mentioned on the slack forum and we're supposed to add some new type label to our issues, we're not going to see that the first time we jump in to try to do that okay Yeah, but I just devil's advocate to that statement. If you think about the workflow, you're not typically going to create a new label, and then immediately going to a filtered list, you're creating a label, you're applying it to stuff. Meanwhile, if we're talking about [anon_INST189] users, they're in the list doing other work. And they've already loaded the list. So they've already hit it without, you know, before you've even even got there to actually use it. So in my opinion, this is a very easy price to pay for an improvement in performance. Because I at least for [anon_INST189], um for other customers to [anon_FN132]'s point we need to know more about how their workflow works. But at least for us, I don't expect it being an issue internally. Is it? Is it just the the filter uh list drop down? Or is it the um when I'm in an issue and hit the uh the Edit Label? Widget? ![unclear]/! that case too No, this is this is only for issues list for now, and probably will stay there because we try to figure it out for issues with because this particular query is super slow. Because database query goes through all the groups and projects for a certain user trying to get all the labels they have access to. On the issue itself. It's quite fast, so we don't plan to cache there. And to the [anon_$148]'s point also, if you add a new label, especially on [anon_WWS11] And you go even if you go to the issue, but we will probably try to search for this label not expect to be not expected to be immediately on the list because I rarely see people that open the list and scroll down trying to find their label, especially in our 1500 labels for [anon_INST189]. So most likely you will search. And if you're searching, this search is not cached. For the first time you search is not cached, it will be searched only after the first attempt of the search. That's also answering [anon_$148]'s question. So this aids the performance when you do type a value, but only after you type it at least once. So if you type workflow, there is a set of labels with workflow. You see, this is cache now next time you type workflow, you will have them instantly. But for the first time, it's not because it requires some value to cache first I legitimately do a, I type a letter. And then I'm like One Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi, letter number two, One Mississippi, two Mississippi, I I count to three between each letter. If this allows me to count to two or to one or no counting, I will find you [anon_$146] and hug you like personally? No, that's a great improvement. It's a great group. Thanks. [anon_$147]= +to run sorry, just to run into it though, like just to address [anon_$145]'s concern again, just so I have it straight. To run into this, you would need to like create a new label and then go immediately to an issue list and try to filter and try to filter the list by that label. Right? That that's the time you'd run into. If you would first filter the list by anything else [pause] you'll have refreshed the cache of labels. So say, we added like type, I don't know uh this is a terrible example. Like say type maintenance didn't exist [laughs] we had to add type maintenance, right? uh you would need to go and filter the list by type maintenance first if you went to the issue list and filtered by [anon_PR85] first then the next time when you went to pick the type label, it would be there, right? ][pause] It's it's just the the person adding the label their workflow, at least my workflow typically is to go use it and verify that it works [pause] somehow. And so that may be the one instance where they might see the hiccup but but you're right in terms of the performance, it's uh it should be a big one... I want to ask is to any is there any cheap way how we can get the la latest label got that got created like a date and then do the network query instead of caching. So you don't deal with the promise stuff that you mentioned. Technically, we can try to get the last label with a creation timestamp and compare it to the timestamp where cache was created because we can get the timestamp of the cache mm compare and perform the cache invalidation. I'm not sure that there is a partial invalidation, they still it's not the one I chose [laughs] the one that I was asked to work with. But I believe even dropping the cache altogether, we will still need to do this at some point so that at least invalidation is doable. And we can get timestamps. So we can think about that. Also partly answering [anon_$140]'s question, unfortunately, updating the cache, that is in the local storage is not possible. It's updated when we write with Apollo cache. So when we're fetching with a query, or we are writing to the cache, that this will be already after application is instantiated. So queries are probably fired at this point. But we can think about it and maybe there will be more crazy ideas about how to fix this particular problem with filtered search because we have a few ideas of how to work on this from the front end side protector and the filtered search itself. Maybe maybe it will be possible to switch it to so called Smart queries, the same fonts that we have for issues list, you can see issues list is updated pretty fine. Yeah, but for now, this is the first iteration that is far from perfect, but at least we have something to cache [tech noise] I wonder if we can use subscriptions, like subscribe to projects in groups that will give you all the labels and then we can fire the events like if a new label is added or anything um you'd get that data and and populate the cache. The main problem is not with the cache here. The main problem is I will dive just a little bit into front end implementation. It's quite complex that Apollo has two types of queries. One of them is observable, that's what most likely you see that updates with subscriptions udates with ![unclear]/! in pretty reactive or whatever you change in the cache it displays on your screen. And the second one that is on the filter search is promise it's just the right recipe guy. Whatever you have in the response for the first time stays there forever. If you can update cache like 10 times and it will ignore it because it's a simple query. It does not care about what in the cache, it cares about what's returned for the first time and that's the main problem with filtered search unfortunately [pause] Thanks for the clarifications. Okay uh let's probably save some meeting time was pretty interesting discussion which we can skip and make it the sync and on to [anon_$141] Yeah. So this is uh just for the awareness uh that uh we currently do not support updating uh issues and epics in bulk via Graph QL. Right now uh you can edit issues in bulk from issues list, but it [loss of sound] was a xOP legacy REST API. It's not even a public API. I think it's uh private API uh so we basically did a workaround when we uh rewrote the issues listed view. Originally, we were supposed to have bulk editing uh via Graph QL as well when we implemented issues listing view because the rest of the page is already in Graph QL. uh but uh right now, we don't have any mutation available when it comes to bulk editing. And uh currently uh on the epic side uh we have uh some feature requests coming in both from users customers that they are looking for more attributes to be uh updatable. In bulk for list of epics. Currently, only labels are supported when it comes to bulk editing epics, we can add support for more attributes as long as there is a private API available, but then we are basically introducing technical debt because uh pages Graph QL and we are using this for new features. So we we had this conversation now over a year ago, when we rewrote issues list in Graph QL. So I have linked uh the epic, where it was proposed first, uh like lack of uh mutations available. uh we have also created uh similar epic for work items uh which is here and uh it basically tracks the same effort for work item. So in case we want to support uh bulk editing of attributes, then you will need to start thinking about uh having the mutations first in ![unclear]/! Yan, you want to verbalize uh your point there? Yeah, just a minor thought that when we bulk editing of work items, we will need to think about uh how to bulk edit uh work items of different types, because each type may not have all the attributes you need to update. So this is something to clarify. But uh it depends on priorities. If you need a Graph QL API endpoint for applicant issues sooner, we might need to add uh endpoints for bulk editing, epics and issues now before we support work items. And so it might be two different things. yeah so [anon_$149] regarding your question that does this influence the UI. So for now as until we add the backend first, as far as like creating mutations are required, there isn't any UI update that is going to take place? First, we need to have mutations that support bulk editing. Once the mutations are in, then we can add UI on top of it. I believe that if we add mutations to update issues list in bulk, then we can keep the existing UI as it is it would be a behind the scenes change, where we remove the REST API usage and replace it with Graph QL. The sidebar behavior for bulk editing will remain unchanged. Same thing goes for epics as well. UI updates will only take place when we start adding new attribute types to that bulk edit sidebar. Cool, thanks. Yeah, so the last item, so feel free to start the discussion in both the epics that I've linked there uh if you have any thoughts, and uh the second item was uh already answered by Yeah, quick one um last chance to vote on what time this meeting should be moved to please check out the issue. There are multiple options. All the context is in the issue you probably know it by now. So yeah, please take a look and vote if you haven't already. I'll probably try and wrap it up today so that everyone has two weeks to adjust to the new time. [anon_$150] really one comment [laughs] because [anon_$140] needs to wake up at 530 I'm not sure [laughs] if if this is the move uh if we move it to 13:30 UTC, this will be very early for you [laughs] That's okay. I can, I won't have camera on, and I'll probably take it from home if that's the case. But the I'd normally go to the APEC one anyway. So there's no need for me to be active in both? I don't think. So don't keep it at the current time on for my sake essentially. That's a good point. I think that's reasonable, right? Like, we should try to make it so that everyone can at least attend one of the two meetings. And so if I'm looking at the votes, and it's a tie break um if everyone thinks that's thinks, that's fair, I'll use that to break the tie basically, like, if somebody is able to make both, right, a bias towards the one where it includes more people and at least one of the meetings [pause] that said there is an option to like veto anytime. So if you definitely absolutely do not want there's a third emoji for that reaction uh if you just really, really detest a particular time of day uh you can express your opinion on it anyway, this is going on too long. It's just like, feel free to take a look [silence] All right [anon_$148] I think you're up Yeah, I just want to say I've worked on a number of cross team projects in the past, and I've never seen one executed. That's not the right word. I haven't seen one delivered in such a really impressive way, the collaboration between the teams, um and the bias for delivery and the bias for demoing. um and just getting something useable out there. So that we can keep pushing forward is is really, really impressive. I'm, like, proud to be part of this team. Thanks so much to everybody who's who's working on the [anon_PR86] [pause] If there are no other points, I see that [anon_$151] joined the meeting. So maybe we can circle back to point one. So we has [anon_$151] are you there? I am, how are you? How's it going? So you're very welcome. uh we did a short introduction for you earlier, but you weren't here. But that's fine. It's not expected. uh so maybe you could tell us a bit about yourself um where you were before [anon_INST189] and uh yeah why you decided to join where you're located. And what you'd like to do for fun outside work? Yes, I'm [anon_$151]. I'm based in [anon_PL87]. Before [anon_INST189]. I was at [anon_INST205] I was the lead for on developer on and tool called megaphone which is basically just a tool for an HR marketing tool for [anon_INST205] real estate agents um joined [anon_INST189] just because I think it's the right place to view developers period. And I wanted to be part of that. And yeah, and outside of work. I love spending time with my family. My young three year old daughter. I watch sports all the time working out and yeah, I'm glad to be here. Very excited to be here. I think that's all awesome. You're very welcome [pause] Okay, that was our last uh agenda item. So I'm going to stop recording but I think we have some social time items. But this is not for the benefit of people on YouTube. Hello, and welcome, everybody to this week's application performance session 12th of September and we are back on this, very very happy to be here of course so um I'll go through the first point on the agenda. I just noticed that, in certain ciir=circumstances with the new approval rules in place rebasing and therefore updating startup CSS can require getting new revenue and maintainer approvals. I'm currently working on an issue um around that. Are you aware about your new approval levels? [anon_$138] Okay, and there no there is a link, let me just quickly share my screen. Um there, to me, it feels like these things are pretty good, but also a little, not quite fully finished, to say the least. Um [pause] I recently went into this. So [anon_FN122] is driving this, and for a couple of reasons, [pause] there were a lot of changes um [pause] we are now needing uh approval by a code owner, there will be one thing um what else was there you once you made all your, or once the MR is approved? And there is and that is kind of the issue here. Once the MR is approved, and there are more changes as in commits coming in, or basically everything is touched. Recently, that was okay and the approval was still valid, which was negotiable. Um but now this is a big no, no NDA approval will actually be kind of invalidated um which is a fantastic thing. But if I am bringing up this example, MR [pause] this is kind of biting us a little, because I feel like rebasing is definitely something we would encourage people to do so. But [pause] there we have it, if you rebase um yeah, see, um so this was actually absolutely fine. The maintainer rebased once more, and which then broke the startup CSS, because this MR is actually touching the start of CSS, which is, um so far, so good um but once you're rebuilding it, um you actually need to need to ping off the maintainers once more. So that is probably not the the most efficient way we can deal with that um I don't think we'll be touching the absolute rules. But regarding startups, CSS we might want to think about any other workarounds on this. So uh [pause] to uh to get into some details, uh I haven't read the thread uh on on the slack. I Is it only about the startup CSS and requiring the uh maintainer rare reviews and the uh cold donors reviews? um or for everything? Yeah, for every MR These are the new approval rules oh right um Yeah ![unclear]/! How to do that best I want uh [pause] I don't know um definitely an important discussion and uh quite a wide one, uh not sure how to uh direct that uh basically, when the maintainer, uh I think there is uh um a comment which with which um you can just rebase the MR in the UI mmm uh without uh um having to check out and uh and retest that, and I think maintainers do use uh that quite often. mm uh but... yeah, things things might break at that moment, even if no commit itself changed. So um um like, like just for basing just put in the the old commits without changing them on the top. um might break some things um my two two cents on this. mm And let's let's have a a lengthy discussion about this um on the corresponding issue that I'm about to create, but um the startup CSS changes that are breaking, these are SCSS files, which are checked in into a repository, but they are 100% auto generated and nobody other than the machine is supposed to be touching them. Um [pause] you made a point which is absolutely true that rebasing might break something. I'd argue that it actually shouldn't be able to break anything except for maybe a merge conflict we can't avoid them, this will always happen but other than a merge conflict. So what I see aspiring in here is actually having the generated startup CSS files checked in into a repository. And I feel like, currently I'm on the, I'm on a point where I'll be like okay if this is completely auto generated, then let's just put it into a Git ignore, because we're not touching them anyhow. mmhmm And have them auto generated once we're running our pipeline. And that should be that should be it probably. And we are not dealing with this basically by hand for the currently doing and applying this etcetera. But so that's my, that's my current point. I'm not sure if I'm overseeing complexity here could be Yeah, I'm, uh I'm on your side with this one um Just uh worried about uh if we have uh proper consistency, and we probably have that uh within the building uh environments, uh like if we built uh that CSS, uh on staging that it is the same that is built on production and when we uh build the distros uh but yeah I think the generated files could be excluded uh we we should be safe in the building persistency. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting. Um because the the auto generated files are actually SCSS files. So they are transpiled or compiled to CSS once more. So there's at least this this double layer of complexity. And I could, maybe it is just for performance reasons. So we're probably not running this on every pipeline. We'll see. Um I'll open up an issue. I definitely will include um [anon_SN123] [anon_SN54] in this because I know he wrote a lot of the things that actually leading to, um to our sub CSS generator mm Which brings me Yeah, sorry and sorry doing a ping front end Gen on that uh a lot of discussion would be there I think mmhmm I'll I'll bring it to the front uh the front end, weekly meeting as well. Very, very good point. Let me just quickly make a note on this um [pause] Sweet. uh which brings me to my next topic. It's all about startup CSS today. I have recently been working on a on a bigger feature. And it's turned out I've actually broken startup CSS on assignment page, while I introduced a feature flag, and it was unnoticed for more for multiple weeks, to quickly before I show anything about what has happened here, or what broke it, and that is, that is important to know, if you are dealing with any kind of UI elements that are startup CSS related, and you are working with a feature flag, startup CSS or the generator behind it will not know this by default. So it will basically always opt into all flex on. And that was in my case, I filled a new feature, which was working perfectly fine in startup CSS, but I've actually broken the old thing. So when the feature flag was off, um we have reintroduced all the flickering. So um yeah, two issues that I'm seeing here. I've already spoken with [anon_FN123] to this, we are currently working on updating um the docs for startup CSS, because I'm I feel like this issues issue is not very, very known at this point, there will be one thing, um and I was a little surprised that uh nothing nothing yelled at me. Um, since this is our sign in page turns out um there we are turns out currently we are not monitoring the sign in page at all. So that might be that might be something we want to uh we want to add in there. And I'll be working um on an MR on this. That kind of makes sense. And what I haven't found the time yet to dig deep on this. But regarding startup CSS, what are we trying to improve here? It's basically um obviously, the measurement quality. I always say flickering, but that's not what it is the the constant shift kind of um so I'd be curious about our monitoring and we probably would need to reduce bandwidth quite a bit to actually see any, any examples. So that is something which is still around for me to investigate. Like do we actually have any monitoring or maybe even automated tests to see if this still does what it should do? And if we haven't broke it, broken it along the way. Um Yeah, it's it's a very good point, actually have the uh um landing pages uh in the um performance testing um yeah, I wondered too if if the layout shift would be noticed uh on a good bandwidth uh to be fair uh in the, uh in the linked um merge request that fix that their are uh video recordings of the issue. I assume they're o=only visible uh as much only on the bad network and with cache disable. Right. So uh going uh through the pages uh should be uh fine on on the second page, because these CSSs are already in the cache. Uh but yeah definitely having that uh in the uh performance uh pages, your list that you linked um is a good thing. Yeah, definitely. And basically, that's one of the most important things uh because that's landing experience, that's something we want to be um as smooth as possible. Yeah, absolutely. And probably even for our very first time users with a clean cache um they'll be landing on the on the sign in page. So that's probably quite a quite a common scenario. Last not but least uh another another thing about startup CSS, and I'm curious if you've, you've encountered the same um to to put this in an in an open way, have you within the last month or something, uh have been working on an MR which required some changes to start up CSS? No Nothing, okay um because I feel like this is quite a common behavior, and we should get it fixed. So [pause] the the good thing about this is it is that the right MR? yeah, that's great. Um the good thing about this degeneration of the startup CSS is completely automated, automated, and this is fantastic. So for the first one, this thing will fail, and we start off CSS job will fail, basically telling you A, something has changed in the code. This will require us to update our startup CSS, here, here is the diff, just go apply this commit this um run this job, once more it will then catch up with the update, we should be green, and we should be good to go. Job done mmhmm perfectly fine. What I see happening all the time is this is the what we're currently looking at is the very first failing job after the rebase. And it will give me uh git diff in the EE folder um for the startup sign in CSS, so once you apply that, and run this thing, once more, it will fail on you, again, where you will like okay, I obviously did something wrong, but you usually didn't. Because... maybe I did in that case, or just open to wrong pipeline. Or I actually did do something wrong. But yeah, once you've got EE sorted out and checked in everything, this thing, department will fail on you, again, providing you another diff with basically a very, very similar difference uh once more, but this time, not an EE but in CE once you applied that, again, you'll actually be green and good to go um this feels like quite a waste of pipelines currently. So that is that doesn't definitely does make up for for a good issue um and a potential optimization. So we can just yeah be more efficient and maybe save some some money when running all these pipelines as well. mmhmm uh are they run sequentially? have you investigated that? Uh Like for EE and then CE? Um What do you what do you mean by they In that case? These those two patterns, or? Yeah, so you you you've uh at the first you've got the EE issue but not the CE issue. Right. mmhmm So I wonder if uh we have it called like ground first thing and only then around the the second thing, and if both uh pass, the only then uh we succeed, uh like uh why uh the point I think uh that you are making why didn't we get the both issues in the in the first, uh run right um yeah So wondering if they're sequential, there um I and if they can be paralised I haven't investigated on this, but if I don't get it wrong, then so the thing is you will have to run a full pipeline to actually run this job. And if there is a pipeline running and you will be starting a new one, as far as I know, it would then be skipping MDL pipeline, and basically aborting um aborting the process and just continue with the new one. So that is that will be hard to reproduce probably. [pause] [silence] um I haven't checked the pipelines we have uh I haven't dig into that uh if you want we can just peer review that maybe uh not on this session. uh asynchronously uh and check how how that is run and uh maybe try throw that in there Absolutely reducer um I'll create an issue for it and ping you and then we'll see maybe we can bring it to our Friday Friday's uh peering session or something. Um and regarding the um the sign in page, I will make sure that we add the URL to our monitoring. So we don't miss out on these again. Sweet. That was it with what I've had cool um today. Any any last minute items, anything you thing you'd like to add? uh no thank you for holding this session and sharing all this stuff uh it was very cool thanks Likewise thanks so much for for joining and yeah let's um I'll ping you on the issues I'll be creating and then I'll be I'll be seeing you in two weeks I suppose. Cool yeah thanks Awesome. See you then have a good one thanks bye Not on this. Okay cool thanks everyone um so yes in terms of our partnership projects what have we got on the horizon? let's have a look so the LGBTQ plus city labs have now been um agreed in terms of the date so we're looking at the fifteenth sixteenth and seventeenth of February um this won't affect um many of you because I think that they've only asked [anon $003] and I to um attend those um they're not open to the public so we won't be sharing them in terms of comms or anything like that it might be the case that afterwards or like during the meeting we might want to snap some photos and then talk about it in terms of saying "oh this is what we're doing at the moment with all these cool people invited etcetera" um at the moment the participants are looking at who they'd like to invite um for that and I I think they're meeting this week to decide that um I've offered some suggestions [tech noise] and [anon $004] has very kindly offered some suggestions as well so um we just need to get a move on with making sure that they are inviting everybody or if they want us to do it sort of more formally that we do that as soon as possible because it's coming up pretty soon basically it's probably by the time we get to Monday it'll be about a month away so for the n= for the sort of level of people that they want to invite um I think it's gonna be really tight and they might not get everybody that they want but um we'll cross that bridge when we come to it and I will make sure that that's all updated [breath inhalation] in all the various planning calendars so that's that one um what else is happening? we have got um the youth advisory board uh would like to have a subcommittee meeting to discuss terms of reference um for their main board um and they're looking for that to happen next week on Thursday evening um [anon_FN8] [anon_SN5] um one of our board members is going to supervise facilitate and lead on that one um and it is um [anon_FN10] and ![unclear]/! are both um attending we're also going to open it up to the wider board but it's not something that's compulsory so if you would like to attend you're more than welcome um if you'd rather not then that's fine um I think [anon_$002] and I are also gonna sit in on that one so that we've can speak to them about a possible event that might be coming up in the summer I want to say twelfth of August which is around [anon_INST2] um [anon_EV1] uh we don't have much more information than that [anon_$002] unless you've got any more that's come in since then um it's it's the international youth day I think international youth day celebration so ... that's why um I thought that having the [anon_INST10] kind of ... leading on that event especially when they want to be delivering activity would be really great with our support as much as we can um I wanted to ask about the [anon_INST10] and I don't know if this is possible but if maybe one of them may want to come to the away day um I mean I think it'd be great if one of them could come uh um I'll I'll talk to [anon_FN10] or maybe even if virtually they can connect for some of the sessions do you know about their time uh [anon_$001] or we just kind of put it open as an open+ so most of them I know most of them are either at school or college or university or working full time so I think at this point we're going to struggle to get them to come certainly to your whole day um it might be the case that we just open it up and say if you'd like to connect for an hour at some point you're more than welcome to uh on the online um but yeah if you could confirm with [anon_FN10] as soon as possible whether+ mm +that's something she would want and then I can send an invite email out and we'll just see if people are keen for it or not I think that's probably the best way to play it at the moment+ Okay +um but that'd be really good uh yeah [anon_$004] go ahead oh no you've frozen [pause] oh [anon_$004] [laughs] oh [anon_$004] we'll we'll come back to [anon_$004] when he's back in in real life um in the meantime what else is happening? let's have a look um we have [anon_INST3] which was originally something that [anon_FN1] was taking part in the filming of all the sessions obviously now she's uh attending a couple um up until July these are the ones that she um is able to make because they film on a Friday afternoon and her schedule so uh in the meantime we've extended um the offer to [anon_FN11] [anon_SN6] to say we're happy to find an alternative person to sit in [anon_FN1]'s um seat as it were for the sessions that she can't make uh the first one that they've suggested is um the April one and um we'd like uh travel [anon_FN12] [anon_SN7] who's our newest member of the board he's a poet um and he's also um consultant in uh working with people with um disabilities [breath in] specifically um people with autism um so uh he would be a really good person so I'm just waiting for him to say yes or no as to whether he's able to do that um on in April and if so I mean you know we can talk about that in terms of uh content around that and sharing that digitally sorry [anon_$004] we lost you did you+ ! You did sorry about that /! +have a question about the last thing? ![unclear]/! !vagaries of the internet /! um yeah just quickly about you go back to I I don’t know where you a re but if we're talking about the [anon_INST10] uh we have this aspiration which ![unclear]/! before but to get them into ! how /! oversee comms and everything so you know what they can give just to actually kind of sit down for like an hour or something ![unclear]/! time I don't have a direct link to them obviously uh is there any way we can get about the table up next meeting or something ![unclear]/! where we can actually sign them up uh to specific dates and times can uh yeah I think the last I heard of it um the ball was in your court to get some uh get an email um put together um of what you want and then we can send that directly out to them and they can respond to you directly so I'm just waiting on that if that's okay for you to yeah if that’s okay for you to ![unclear]/!   I’ll do that today yeah I I'll jot a very brief email out just to sort of saying what what um what to expect some stuff and how how to sign up for it but yeah okay I'll send a copy of that to you er ![unclear]/! ! today/! ![unclear]/! the other thing is that on the last meeting they have said they were [lip smack] interested in some sort of mentoring or um kind of skillshare so er [anon_$001]’s offered to put together a questionnaire uh I asked just to find out what sort of skills they may be interested in and what sort of time they have to commit and what they want would like to gain from a mentorship so it wouldn't be like a very um strict or strict mentorship but I'm talking to [anon_INST1] about structure so we offer something that has some sort of structure and maybe we can do throughout the year uh so hopefully you'll all want to be involved and can uh one= once we know what it looks like I I'll I'll I’ll ask and see what time you may be able to give them and depending on what skills they want as well to see if we may want to outsource or just ask if anyone outside our organization wants to give some time to to help mentor a young person um an= and if you have any good examples of good mentorship for young people I mean you setting up some [anon $003] with the [laughs] the er [anon_INST4] ambassadors but yeah if if if you know if if you feel there's anything to share [breath] once we have something in place I can we can have a chat as well before [swallow] but maybe that comes you know I think if if there's if they're interested comms in social media blogging uh we can always [breath] also point them out to you that's kind of another way um yeah cool lovely erm+ =![unclear]/! sorry [anon_$001] no go ahead I I was just saying uh I suppose this is like a good tester almost ![unclear]/! to get them in uh for for the comms where ![unclear]!/ where we can sort of see how they respond you know ![unclear]/! how how practical the practicalities of it you know how it works ![unclear]/! so so yeah okay cool um then there's a couple of things that have come up um er [anon_EV2] um and whether we want to do something for that I think that um you might [anon_$004] have received the email from [anon_FN13] saying that they need information by seventeenth of January which is this Monday my feeling is given the um stuff we talked about about um the young voices amplified program as a whole um maybe this is something that we sort of step away from as something that is not doable within the timescale given other commitments what you reckon? I would agree I think it's a bridge too far um I've only got [pause] kind of direct communication with about half of the group so far and not full permission to use all of that yet anyway so [breath] there's a few GDPR hoops to jump through which I don't think was going to get ... finished by the end of the week okay that's no problem I'll go back to [anon_FN13] in that case and say um unfortunately we haven't been able to get stuff um sorted for this one but we're happy to share um and promote stuff when it comes around and um =sure do we still do line of light I know that's boarded off at the moment but is that= it= do you know if they still do that? It's It's it’s ![unclear]/! + before my time um ![unclear]/! so I don't know [laugh] [breath] I mean it's simple I I think they’re doing some work on the trambridge ! in fairness /! cos er er but it’s s= all sort of blocked of at the moment but um =I know the um the projector's still there but it's+ is it oh really yeah yeah it's not projecting onto the scaffolding so it's yeah it's definitely not happening at the moment but whether it yeah comes back when the um when the scaffolding comes down I don't know [breath] ! we could offer that up as a ![unclear]/! dig out some old poem content for that put that up yeah I forgot that was before your time I think that was the first time I met you at that uh cos you did a poem for them didn’t you? um I don't think I did the poem for them [stress] but I was at the event, the launch event um which ![unclear]/! you did no you ga= you said a poem you did your um ![unclear]/! mm yeah yeah yeah ![unclear]/! +yeah no that was ! nice /! [breathes] ![unclear]/! and I sort of walked up to you and said “oh, you should come have a chat with city of literature" yeah [breath in] [laugh] and look where that's got me goodness look where that got ![unclear]/! [laugh] um another thing =![unclear]/! that's happening that I'm I'm just picking up a lot of the projects that [anon_FN1] has um either made verbal promises to people about or has um had sort of initial conversations [tech noise] with people and we're just sort of deciding whether or not these are things that are gonna come together um one of those projects, I've sent an email to the chap and he said, I don't recall having a conversation with [anon_FN1] which is great, cos we can take that off our list [laughs] Not to do um I've also had a conversation with a lady called [anon_FN2] [anon_SN1] who is a research person. At the [anon_INST1] she's doing a project called [anon_PR1] which is about um animal baiting in early modern England um linking multiple fields, including archaeology, genetics, theatre history, archival research, modern performance and wrestling [laugh] um which sounds exciting, she would like in the first instance, a link with um the [anon_PR2] um folk. So my plan there is to connect her to [anon_FN3] [anon_SN2] In the first instance um just a reminder of the [anon_PR2] project, which is our= something that we're supporting um that the [anon_INST5] are doing, it's a nash= nationwide project um, celebrating I wanna say 400 years since Shakespeare's death, or birth, one of them death since the publication of the first folio oh well there you go ![unclear]/! [laugh] yes, and it's to do with getting people from various different communities who might not think that theatre and Shakespeare is for them er involved in the creation of plays um and it's a= I think it's a two year or a three year project um and the [anon_INST5] are leading it in this region um their next meeting is on the 25th of January, which inconveniently is when our away day is happening. So we've asked for notes for that. And then going forward, [anon_$004] I think you've offered to um sit in on those meetings and be that connection so as our theatre bod that's er where we are with that one so I'm gonna connect them up. She's also asked about um another er project that she's interested in. I might have to sort of say at the moment, we're not um we're not gathering new projects to get involved with um so I will talk to her about that. That's not a problem um what else is happening? um is there any post on my desk? [anon_$003] because we have um ! one more/! you have ![unclear]/! want me to open it? yes, please. I'm expecting it to be some certificates from the ! upworthy /! coaching that we did last year um just so that you're all aware. And this is probably sort of not necessarily for everyone, but it's it's something that I'm working on so um [anon_FN3] who is the lady who um yes, that's good that's what I wanted. Marvelous. Thank you. um she's she's asked us if we want some more workshops, because um I think the amount of money that we um gave her and the way that the workshops last year fell, these were training workshops that we did um [anon_$002] and I were involved, [anon_FN1] was involved um and lots of um mid level people from various different arts organizations across the city, and in London um all involved in this um training um mentoring and coaching process um so I'm in the process of trying to find some good dates for that, but it's not high up on my agenda um so that's just something that's happening in the background. What else have we got, I think slammer vision proposed dates, I sent around some rejigged dates, which were um I've sort of split it into two halves. So the first half, sort of before the firt= end of August, is sort of getting the project up and running, finding out who else wants to be involved from other cities of literature um and also, hopefully working with the [anon_EV3] to do the regional um part of the slammer vision, so we find our participant, our person from Nottingham [tech noise] and who will be um slamming in the final. And then we've got a little bit of a a gap where we um obviously have to be working on the symposium for the young voices, amp= amplified project. And then we look at sort of a November, December sort of timeline for the um the main, big um international final of the slammer vision um I asked if anybody had any um other things that were clashing in there that they wanted to just make us aware of and I don't think there is um but if there if there are, or if anybody's thought of anything, or if anybody knows of anything big that's coming up that we might need to shuffle this out the way for please do let me know. Otherwise, I'm going to put these in the planning calendar and treat them as if they were um good to go and it culminates in December doesn't it? that's the plan at the moment. Yeah. to sort of um finish the year on like a yeah I like that event yeah yeah I think it'd be nice we can have so I think after I've done that, and put it in all the planning calendars, I think the next step is to talk to um some of the cities of literature who've been involved quite heavily in it. So obviously, [anon_FN3] in Melbourne who um sort of initiated the project for the thing um and Manchester and Quebec who who did this year's competition and just to get a feel for, whether the dates that we've gone for make sense, and also, yeah um what the timeline is for, like prep for getting it all together and ready, so I might have to fill out a meeting with them in the next few weeks or so but that's all ![unclear]/! talking of which we’ve got= I forgot to mention we've got an interview with [anon_FN4] [cough] there's an article coming up soon as well. I've I've er commissioned it out to be covered by one of my students as well thought it'd be good experience awesome that sounds really good um yeah so the only other things that we are looking at at the moment, is the [anon_PR3] project. I've just asked [anon_FN5] if we can get an update on that and I haven't had a response yet um I've also sent an email to [anon_FN2] [anon_SN3] who's at the [anon_INST1] um because she and [anon_FN1] were talking about um Black Studies and creative research mini Festival in May um we don't have any more details on that at the moment. I'm hoping that [anon_FN2] will be able to give us some um more information on that and what the timelines are, and what [anon_FN1] perhaps has um said that we will do and whether or not that's still feasible given that we're directorless at the moment, so um TBC um I've also um from [anon_FN1]'s handover, um sent an email to [anon_FN6] [anon_SN4], he's another researcher at the [anon_INST1][anon_FN1]'s handover note was not clear on what that project was about. So I think it was something in the very initial stages, talking about something with Spanish speakers, and something to do with talking to our Spanish cities of literature. And it may be just as simple as he wanted the connection with those cities of literature. And that's something that we can provide, but um I've tried to er I'm trying to get to the bottom of that one I think at this point and make a call I think I had an email about that a while ago and and it sounds like we've connected them with the Granada city of literature in the past+ okay so it could be something similar. okay, cool. Well, that's, that's very easy to do and and not at all onerous. So that'd be really good if that was the case [breath] um I've also had an email from er a chap called [anon_FN7] who's doing a project called the other side of hope um and that was just before Christmas. And I sent that across to you [anon_$003] um +it’s here and I forgot to action it um I saw your email today uh about it so I will in fact [anon_$005] this might be one for you to take, if that's okay pass this on to you um yeah, cool he comes accredited Yes I've worked with him before. And he's very um he's very good. And this is a topic it's to do with um the literature and writing and stories of refugees and asylum seekers across um the east midlands uh I think it's a really important thing to be supporting yeah absolutely yeah as best we can um um [anon_$005] this could be one for you to get your teeth into so if you fancy um I'll forward an email to you and sort of see if you can take it from there. It's um it it's quite interesting ... yeah um the only other things are just to let you know that [anon_EV4] we've sent off our requests and I think we're going to know for definite if we've got the books by um I wanna say the first of February um once we know that we can think about what we would like to do on [anon_EV4], which is in April, I wanna say 23rd of April, mid April anyway um and yeah we'll see what we want to do last year, what we did was we just um did some stuff around, you know, um world book night on the uh social media and we also sent copies of the books out to various different groups of writers in the city, um which was really nice, actually, cos that was common people, which was a really good book um this time around we're hoping for some young adult fiction um so if that's the case it might be that we say to our schools who are on the [anon_PR5] would you like, so many copies of this book for your school as part of a you know as a quick suggestion could you say is there a book allocated already? so there are I want to say 12 books, and you have to put ![unclear]/! you have to put like your top six in order of preference so there were two young adult books so we've put those as our top two um: and then we uh just sort of looked at the ones that seemed most interesting after that but I must say, and probably this ![unclear]/! doesn't go outside this room there wasn't anything that particularly seemed like super exciting this year so I think yeah [laughs] yeah look obviously with a huge group bias I was looking for like a good Nottingham-based book, a bit of [anon author name] he's got a new one out, but though [breath] no well I think that obviously they have to um appeal to the broadest possible audience so that =yeah makes sense but um+ =![unclear]/! [laugh] yeah, [anon_$004] go ahead um so yeah fingers crossed on those two YA titles I think we had spoken before potentially about [breath] doing something in the evening into the night potentially somewhere like Wollaton of of using using that [anon_EV4] element of it to do something potentially stargazey and if he says giving himself more work to do I really want like I love doing sleepovers cos they are such a unifying event but that might be again a bridge too far but I think doing something like books stargazing potentially get somebody into to do a talk and and and bring some some people there to do books and uh beyond the ozone layer he trying to swiftly think of something alliterative um would be would be quite an easy up up and go um and would be useful to do a bit more stuff with [anon_FN21] [anon_SN9] of just going look we can do this and see what happens mm yeah, definitely so what yeah contingent on I think if we as soon as we know whether we've got the books and if we have got the books. um it will be a case of let's get going on this one [breath] um but yeah, that sounds really cool um what else is going on? um we I need to talk to [anon_FN22] at [anon_INST15] about the Iraq exhibition that they're having later in the year um because we have two cities um in Iraq that are um cities of culture um and it might be nice to connect them up I we sent [anon_FN22] a message about this in early in December+ =![unclear]/!= +and we haven't had a response so+ =they're both cities of literature yeah?= +get back on that one hm? ![unclear]/! cities of literature I think they might be yeah I think you're right actually yeah um it's Baghdad and Slimani isn't it? yeah yeah we've had good relationships with those in the past before so that'll really really nice it um yeah, I'm not sure um who is in charge now in either of those places cos+ =I +I think both of the people+ =![unclear]/! +that we spoke to before have moved on oh have they? I think so somebody from Slimani is in Manchester at the moment I saw on Twitter. So maybe we're checking with Manchester on Slimani cool yeah no problem but that's sort of we don't know yet so we're not in a position to reach out to either of them cos we don't know actually what the ask is so um I need to get back on that um which is fine um: and I think mm I think that might be everything that's happening at the moment yes um as far as I know that's where we are and any other questions or anything on or anything that's come in, that you'd need to pass on to me to look up or deal with? uh no I figured ![unclear]/! so we're cool literaly cool yeah I've um I've had an inquiry from um [anon_INST17] about something about illustration students taking part in a project uh kind of like an internship um so maybe this is for [anon_$004] or [anon_$003] originally I talked to them about kinda maybe sketching the literary sites when we were talking about uh the map, idea, whether this is something we may want at this stage or not uh maybe it's something for for [anon_$003] and I to decide or maybe it's more useful for them to be involved in [anon_PR5] if there is any, any scope for them to contribute to the project and to create content um based on that. Yeah. [anon_$001] hmm do you even know what the timeline is for them wanting to be involved in something um yeah, um I think it's April time um let me have a look quick look I knew I needed these details for today [laughs] uh so I asked if I could, they asked me if if I want uh so illustration project [breath] so the proposed date for students to share a brief for employers to share a brief with students with students as 14th of March. And then they they will be presented presenting feedback on 20th of May Okay, so they could so how does that yeah how does that fit with other projects yeah maybe there's something about the mood boosting the [anon_EV9] or we could use it for general comms um if that's something [pause] for the maps, I'll I'll talk to [anon_$003] about it and and+ =yeah yeah ![unclear?]!/ + talk about it you you know if you think you have something between March and May [laugh] yeah just like yeah because it doesn't have to be made if they put together they could put together some graphics just lamination you know uh we could just [cough] what what's possible we can just release them later maybe we could do something about the [anon_INST10] um I don't know the detail and how much they'll be working or or the the depth of the project so that's where I need to meet with them um key researcher or the lecturer um but but I can find out more and and then but if if you think of anything just you know we could use it for content for social media yeah sure that's probably just another thing that's just jumped in my mind as well is that I noticed that [anon_INST10] sort of predicted this last week !that/! they're going to get moving with uh their [anon_PR10] scheme um so ![unclear]/! to challenge I think [tech noise] [anon_EV5] seems so obvious to it that we should probably um do that just to do it we don't know what type of students we get yet or anything like that so we have to second guess a little but generally sort of along the lines of partaking in an international competition well we don't say what it is, but give too many identifying details away I would say part of the international collaborative [pause] competition um of some sort and uh we can't say poetry because we have too many identifiers in there so uh yeah I think that'll be a really good one ![unclear]/! it's really interesting one for the ![unclear]/! so we should get some good students mm hopefully just to jump in on here cos I've done quite a few of these projects before ones that are linked directly back into somebody's course, are quite tricky to get the outcomes that you want from them so cos they're trying to show you that they can do all these different things on one project, which actually+ yeah +makes it quite tricky to work with so+ yeah ![unclear]/! ![unclear]/! yeah we've had [anon_PR10] before. And and you set them the challenge and they work to+ Yeah and it's +rather than it being something. And also+ +yeah +your IP is different =yeah =yeah we've been doing [anon_PR10] for about five years now so we've got a handle on how it works I think as well so yeah ![unclear]/! =I was thinking more in terms of the illustration ones cos of it being+ =oh the illustration ones + something that's linked to their course ... I think can get quite tricky ... I've+ =yeah +I've certainly found that =yeah ![unclear]/! that fairly restrictive in many ways is that you tend to not sort of assume they'll come up with something absolutely marvelous in that time period because they only get they get less than two weeks effectively by the time they're bedded into what we've done above time this, and then you have to stop and do their presentation so it's more like a week I heard that they have to work with us of clear work we don't expect them to do super, we we always get something put out then or at least get a starting point and they can evidence it enough and we can evidence it enough and we're mm happy with that but yeah we we we're quite good on that one we we we've done we've had some good successes in that before so yeah I've done it twice as well at the castle so yeah+ oh re= yeah ![unclear]/! +and it was really good yeah well we can explore with illustration students if if it's if it's not demanding for us and they can put together that that we don't have to use but maybe usable then we can go ahead with it ... yeah =yeah if it's purely for having some assets we can draw it out every now and then you know get some stylistic drawings of Lord Byron Lord Byron's birthday here's our own stylistic picture of me going on an internet trying to find something out or even like not necessarily like old writers from [anon_PL3] but just like maybe something like young people like+ young ![unclear]/! yeah +doing something in the community no no= =[unclear] shots or Byron's birthday but if someone can do something better then [laughs] why not [laughs] [laughs] no no there's there must be yeah you're right yeah let's get some new writers I mean not necessarily even writers I think it'd be really nice to get some like nice generic images of like people enjoying books um diverse uh readers and writers+ yes +and performers and things one of the things that um came up with the speakeasy um open mic that we did with [anon_INST16] is that we obviously don't have any uh photos of that happening yet because it hasn't happened yet so it'd be really nice to have like somebody with a microphone or you know somebody reading from a lectern or like some people enjoying a performance or something or like a generic audience going 'yay' or something like that so that if we come to those places, or those events where we need an image, um and we just want stock photos ![unclear]/! yeah ![unclear]/! cos obviously getting the rights and getting the [pause] are normally a headache so yeah you could just get them to draw a load of kids reading books yeah some nice images like that so that we've got something for you know in the bag for+ [cough] yeah +for those kinds of situations might be nice as well so with that though I will just say that that getting a good IP agreement with the students and with [anon_INST17] is really useful because we fell into loads of ![unclear]/! traps around, it being work they're doing for their course and where that IP sits, and where ongoing usage can go with that of them being able to take that into their um emerging careers as well. It's it's it's trickier than you'd think I had far too many meetings with legal at [anon_INST17] about it I I think if we yeah, that'd be trashed out beforehand. I suppose that !we sort of talked about them design/! is like what we do with ![unclear]/! uh if anything they do belongs to us as a business agreement sort of thing cos it's it is them working for us as opposed to working to say a freelancer for us we're actually mm pushing them to get a taste of real world experience so we should yeah obviously we'll take a look at that but we should be able to get it okay [breath] I think that's everything um I'm just going to stop the recording now [pause] [laugh] I had one of these today teams wasn't letting me record so I had to switch to zoom. And I felt like such a grandma because it took me so long [breath] [laugh] I I was like, I looked really badly prepared for this interview I was doing I just felt so silly um yeah ... mm okay so um, everyone's okay ... okay um let's go through the agenda, then [anon_PR5] [anon_$004]'s not here. Does anyone have any ... updates on [anon_PR5]? ... [tech noise] no ... do we know anything if [anon_$004]'s managed to send books to the schools [pause] I want to say it didn't happen No, cos he's not been to the office last week. Okay. All right. Well, we'll check with him next week [laughs] [anon_PR4]. um yeah, we just had a I just hijacked the start of the meeting to mention the stuff in the emails just now. We had a team meeting last week, what happened? We had a project meeting. I don't think there's too much to report back on there. I'm just going through the data a bit still, because I'm having to translate some of it into English. um I'm just doing that. And then I guess there's the workshops on the local side of things that= we've got a venue booked, like [anon_INST7] was cheaper than [anon_INST6] um and it's probably better because it's in town ... I would say. Yeah, it's very nice. It's I think it's very friendly, uh as well. um I I don't know, I feel it's less intimidating than [anon_INST6] which is like a kind of wide cube, black box. Yeah yeah. So that's good. And I spoke to= um I spoke to [anon_FN14] yesterday about the budget, because I think there is quite a lot of money there. But obviously, because we originally proposed an additional kind of um evening event, whether it would be um cheeky or bad to reallocate some of those funds towards the workshop. And she was= she basically said no it's fine because as long as you're spending the money on something that the university will think, is worthwhile, use the money otherwise, it just ends up going like back to [anon_INST8] and I think that gives us quite nice scope to have the kind of concrete output in the form of a zine, I think+ yeah +and I think cos [anon_$004] had been quoted for a zine production+ =yeah= +quite recently so+ =yeah= +I guess when [anon_$004] is back, have a chat with him about the kind of costs [anon_$005] ... yeah [anon_$003] and I were talking about this uh uh yesterday, Monday, about um some of the like plans he'd made for budgeting, for marketing, and we wondered maybe like whether they could be put towards things like I think like you suggested free books, [anon_$002], or something like that. So like making the incentive to attend the workshops, like even bigger, rather than just spending lots of money on posters, if we're actually going to be targeting very niche groups, we could easily just go to a community group or go to a society and say, Come along rather than sticking posters everywhere. But I don't= I don't know, =oh as in like, giving the participants a kind of goodie bag with books in ... yeah, so selling it as like the thing that we're um putting marketing money towards, I mean, !aids/! like the zine, because I guess that kind of counts as marketing+ mm +um but also thinking like, you know, if we're= yeah if we're getting very niche groups, we can go on little= I don't know tour around the different community centers or to different society meetings, the universities and say, come along, we're going to give you= you're going to have these brilliant workshops, we're also going to give you a load of free books, um or this goodie bag or something like that. And that would be the drive to attend rather than a fancy poster okay [tech noise] I think the goodie bag idea would work because it would be easy to justify to the university. I'm not sure what they're going to say if we say oh, we're using some of your money to give books to community groups if that makes sense. I'm not sure what they would say to that. I mean, more like give them= so give them to the people who are attending the workshops mm but going to community groups to sell the workshops to them. Yeah, there could be a way who would do that though [laughs] =I guess [anon_$003] !unclear/!= =that's what I'm thinking it is people like that is quite an arduous task. That is all+ =yeah +I'm thinking um =yeah but it is something to consider like maybe some kind of alternative means to using social media to approach potential target audiences. Yeah. Yes !unclear there/! yeah yeah I think we're definitely thinking like um ... a like printing lots of posters or flyers, something like that wouldn't necessarily sort of line up with our environmental values. But also, it's um not necessarily something that we want uh everyone to see. It's something that we want niche groups to see in the community, I think+ =I think +!if I'd understood it correctly/! I think yes, but I also think maybe I can see that as a good way of targeting people. However, that also to me that uh= this is kind of a weird way to look at it, but by going and explicitly targeting those groups, or like, the one thing that comes to my head, is that it makes the idea of multilingualism seem con= confined to communities and to defined groups whereas+ yeah +that, to me, like multilingualism is present everywhere. Do you see+ mm +what I mean? mm So I can also, I can see the value of both, I can see the value of having that targeted approach, but uh maybe striking somewhere between the two, because I think maybe putting something up in a more general space. That's not kind of, I don't know, a named community space, like a Polish community space, putting it in, I don't know, a space that you might associate as being like, a, I don't know an English speaking space, even though that's not the reality of probably any space+ mm +if that makes sense. So I think it's a good idea. But it's also being careful not to maybe see, the only place we're going to find multilingual speakers was within these very defined community groups, if that makes sense yeah yeah of course= =maybe I'm talking shit =no I completely get what you mean= =but yeah, I think both appr= oh god this is being recorded. Oh well um uh [laughs] but yeah, I think both have their merits. So I think that is something to definitely explore but+ mm +I wouldn't want that to be the only way we do it, if that makes sense. yeah definitely yeah =yeah and I think I mean, [anon_$007]'s done this with [anon_PR6] uh because one of the other suggestions was to do um just to do some Facebook ads that you could put on Instagram. And then because you can tar= you can, you can, you can make it very targeted, you could put in that you could make the audience that are interested in languages and and you know, you could make it like that. And with the goodie bags, what I was saying to [anon_$007] was that, you know, if you= if we wanted to give some books that are kind of focused on multilingualism, whether they're novels or whatever, that's= that's kind of a nice thing. For those that go to the workshops. yeah I think= =I also think sorry, can I just say, for [anon_PR6] we made these activity packs, which were great um but again, it was a= it was a long task, and a huge chunk of money. And I'm not sure that maybe we should kind of go jumping into making an activity pack before we've got a facilitator cos it might be that the facilitator wants to, you know, get nice postcards and images of different places, and use those as prompts, like they might have their own ideas, um which probably could be done on a budget, like a lot of facilitators do quite simple prompts, and I agree with [anon_$002] that ads when I was doing the evaluation for the last project were really like the best thing for getting people in the Facebook ads in particular um and Instagram ads, um Google Ads less so but Facebook and Instagram were, I think a good way to use the money. Yeah. And we realized that a lot of young people saw it on Facebook, because their adults [laughs] saw it parents, uncles, uh teachers that so again, it's it's good to put it on. And and we could test it again, just put 30 pounds to begin with and then see if we need any more. It may be enough just to do that. Yeah, I think yeah, yeah, that all sounds great. Like marketing stuff is something I am really not familiar with. So I'm prepared to and open to any ideas would be would be interesting um what was= be interesting to know if there are any= this might be something that you know, or it might even be something that [anon_FN2] will know, because of her work with [anon_INST9] and stuff. But if there are any collections of writing that are maybe some written in the original, but with the translation alongside it, and things like that might be quite nice to have as kind of um things to give to participants, I think so you've got that multilingual= you've got that multilingual side to it. There's something off the top of my head did [anon_PL2] do something with [anon_PL1] with [anon_PL1] ... that was poetry and translations between Kurdish and English and there was something published that's ringing a bell for me too I think that was the international translation day 2021 because I guess there are+ =!unclear/!= +links between multilingualism and translation and I think that things like that would be quite nice things to put in, to have as kind of things to give to participants that kind of, because uh I would imagine the people that will be attending even if they maybe I don't know, if they speak like Polish and English, then if they're attending, they're still going to be interested in maybe language and translation. And that says things like that might be quite nice. We could see what the [anon_INST4] networks have, as a means of a) promoting the network, but b) also using resources that are produced from their projects, too. So+ =yeah= +that might be a nice way to do it. yeah at my= at my my old work there they they have just opened an exhibition, it's called uh in wha= in which language do we= do we dream something like that+ =oh was this in [anon_PL7]= +yeah+ =okay= I've not seen it but I think it's one of these interesting things. Because, you know, like, I my my native language is Spanish, but I dream in English and Spanish. And and it may be something interesting for people that are multilingual in knowing. I don't know, I'm sure that we can find things we can ask [anon_$003] because he= I think he's the one that knows the most in terms of like, within the team in terms of [anon_PL3] writers uh but we could ask other people and I guess once we had the facilitator, they may have some ideas as well. =yeah= Because it =it would be a cool prompt, though, wouldn't it writing about dreams or even using that as a discussion point? I mean, I've had really weird dreams before where really big, like, typical, like stereotypical, like Ukrainian men are like chasing me [laughs] yeah yeah just wi= like weird dreams. um yeah, in different languages um that would be really cool. But that exhibition sounds good. I'm gonna check that out. Yeah, it just opened. So it maybe was= maybe a good point of research, I guess. Yeah. research trip. I might do that. Thank you. Yeah, that's cool. But yeah, that's, I think that's what's the main thing with [anon_PR4] at the minute getting the bits sorted out that we've just been discussing over email and getting the workshop sorted. Me just carrying on with this data analysis for the= for the project itself that we've collected from the partners. Okay. [breath in] and so so the facilitator's role, is that ready to go out? Or are we recruiting for that already? I think it's fourth of April [anon_$005]? yeah? Yeah. Okay. Ooh, can I add one more thing? Sorry. [laugh] um I= this is probably of interest to a) to [anon_PR4] but maybe also to [anon_INST4] more generally, I spoke to an academic yesterday for my other job. um she works at the [anon_INST24], but is working on an [anon_PR11] project that is about nature and storytelling, which I think is quite relevant. I have the information+ =!unclear/! And it's about a= I think they're using Gallic culture and also Southeast Asian culture. But I do have a link to the project um but it might be a) just a general interest, but b) with the whole kind of nature side of things. I know that that's something with the environmental kind of angle, so I can send you information about that. When I find it, I think you might be interested. So+ =yeah+ =yeah= +looks like something we want to get involved with potentially. Yeah, or even just kind of crossovers or chats with people? I think so. Yeah. That's it. Sorry. um [laugh] so much to say we were talking to [anon_FN15] about that today, actually this morning. [anon_$003] and I okay +definitely think it'd be really interesting. yeah !unclear [searching for something]/! my inbox is a mess, but I will= I'll pass the link on to when I've= here it is yeah it's called [anon_PR7] but it also links to science. So there's storytelling, and science, which I think is quite cool, too um yeah Okay. Yeah. All right. Anything else [anon_PR4] No, I'll shut up now. okay [anon_PR8] um I think nothing's happening with that. I can't imagine anything will happen until the ! the NPO/! is submitted now. NPO planning um ... well there's not really much progress at the moment um ... we have put together the creative program for 2022 to 2026 for a draft from [anon_FN1] and from conversations between [anon_$007] [anon_$004] and I uh and we've put it together for for [anon_FN2]. And we need= we just need to know what [anon_FN2] kind of wants to do moving forward. And we can't really do much of the NPO planning at this stage until we [laugh] know what the creative program is going to be like specially for the first two years. So I think we know what's happening this year to November, December ... um ... and then we= we just uh we= we don't know [laugh] so we just need to wait uh [anon_FN2] is on holiday this week. She has kindly taken the creative program, but I ca= I don't expect to hear from her until next week um and I think once we know, hopefully we can budget and move on with the application. I have put together the questions for the application as well, uh in a= in a Google Doc. And I I have asked um= because we have the board meeting next week so I've asked [anon_FN16] if if the board wants to see the questions. I don't know if they want to see them, because there's no answers to them just yet [breath in] but um yeah, and we've put together= [anon_$007] has put together a survey for the board. That is the last question of the application, in terms of ethnicity of the leadership team um ... and yeah, I mean, I don't think there's anything more at this stage, the creative program, [anon_FN2] just wants us to focus on NPO at the moment uh so we're dropping the= we're not looking at the gap project. uh until we know what what's happening with NPO. And we have, what, two or three weeks for [anon_FN2] to join us, which is great [laugh] I think she wants to have the application on a draft. But it doesn't seem like very long. So we'll just see what happens. um and yeah, I don't think there's anything else to report on NPO [pause] that's it ... uh [anon_INST10] ... you have any updates [anon_$007]? !unclear/! no, we've had the agenda sent through um and I've kind of it was sent through bless them on, like a screenshot of an image that had then been put in a word document. So I typed it up [laugh] um and apart from that, it all looks quite good. And I think like [anon_FN17] seems confident to lead the meeting um rooms all booked. And I think isn't [anon_FN18] you're sending [anon_$002]? Yeah yeah um and there's lots of kind of nice little projects in the background that we can talk to them about then like the [anon_PL4] project [anon_PL5] um [breath] [pause] other things [laugh] oh the [anon_EV6] um I want to find out what they're doing with the [anon_EV6] um because I haven't heard much from them about that. So I'll make a note !unclear at that meeting/! as well. =yeah yeah, we need to remind them to well, now that we've set the Google Drive for them, and they all have access to it, that their agendas can just go in that [laugh] Maybe we need to do a quick kind of training of what= well not training, but just show them what it looks like, yeah on next week. um ... and yeah, and [anon_$005]'s been working on the recruitment pack [pause] anything else to report on that? [anon_$005] =well well it's pretty much I was just I was just looking at some emails from [anon_FN9] but uh yeah, it's pretty much all done now. I managed to slightly painstakingly copy what um [anon_INST11] had done block by block rather than screenshotting it because it's really low quality if you do that but [laugh] it wasn't too difficult to be honest just took like the whole afternoon. Yes. [laugh] um but I mean, one thing I wanted to ask everyone is if everyone's okay for me to put their photos in the pack. So I've got like a Meet the team page, and then the meet the youth board page is everyone alright if I just take the ones from the website. And then make= cool so I'll do that. Um, I did actually have an email from [anon_FN9] uh today saying that they will finalize the deadline in the meeting, which makes me think that the recruitment pack won't actually go out until after they have their board meeting um which is fine by me. It's ready to go when they want it. um yeah, it's just about I think their expectations of recruiting, cos I think I didn't know what I thought their expectations. I mean, I was supposed to have it out a bit earlier= we're a little bit !unclear/! in terms of how quickly in a short space of time we're going to get people to apply um and I wonder cos it's just, you know, run up to exams for a lot of people who are still at college and school it's going to be busy. I don't really know how many applications they're going to get around March, April, May time um+ =!unclear/! +that might be something to raise, I think at the meeting about um when they want the deadline to be yeah [tech noise] =I mean, I think that the dates I proposed that I think I put 25th of April for the the deadline. And I think this is something we could extend for a week, but that means they'll have= if it's out next week= well it won't be out next week because you won't be around [laugh] when we have the board meeting but if it's out on the 10th um we could just see how many applications we get in those two weeks and if not extend it for another week, but it'll be the Easter holidays so again, will people look at it more or less I don't know [laugh] um =they'll be revising, probably [laugh] but maybe they'll have more time to do I think, I think two weeks is a good amount. And I think also like, you don't want it to be too long, because it'll just get lost, and there won't be an urgency to apply but= !unclear/! [tech noise] =I think that'd be a good date yeah, and I think in the next meeting, we'll need to= if if they want to meet with the applicants ... at a certain point, we'll need to figure out what the those dates are, but I have put them uh April, May, so then they can attend the June meeting as observers uh and I think that's probably not a bad timeline, but they can be very specific if if=, and also, if they want us to be on the= say if they want= they were saying interview people, I don't know how formal they want to do it. But I don't feel like it should be very formal [laugh] um =!unclear/! it depends on how many applications they get, I guess, because if they+ =yeah= +only get five, don't really need to interview everybody do you know how many people they= we are recruiting for how many extra people ... I haven't= just a general call out I don't I don't know if they wanted maybe five I make a note to ask at the end =are they expanding the team or are people who haven't been attending gonna be like= !biased/! from it or= Unknown =[laughs]= =I think some people moving on like [anon_FN19] [anon_FN20] well [anon_FN19]'s at uni already I think [anon_FN20]'s going and= =yeah they= they've lost some members. And I think um in the terms of references= reference, it says after three= if you miss three meetings, then a wellbeing kind of representative will talk to you just to check you're okay but if you if you don't respond, I think at that point, you= you're not really expected to attend anymore um I think that's what they want to do moving forward but I= I feel like they only have like five or six regulars at the moment. So they lost quite a lot. I kind of think maybe they said they wanted 12. um just doesn't sound like a bad number a board our main board has 11 I think. So [tech noise] yeah, we'll just have to see and just check what the terms you know, are we expecting them to stay for a year, three years, five years until they turn 25 [laugh] you know how long are they meant to serve [tech noise] um or is it= I think there's= maybe there's a review after a year, but then again, someone will have to do that ... um [tech noise] yeah, so well, let's see what happens next board meeting and ... we'll just take it from there ... uh ... content plan, [anon_$005] [pause] yes, so the big thing for this week is finally April Fool's um which feels a bit sad to be rounding that up now but it was like just a silly project so Monday um [anon_$003] and myself went out, uh hit the town with a um Jarvis Cocker mask that now lives in the office. um but [anon_$003]'s also got his own one and we took photos of him in the [anon_INST12] we had to kind of negotiate our way in though because I think like there hadn't been= the person who we're talking to hadn't told um front desk staff. And so we had to, like convince her to let us in. But eventually she did. And we got one of the actors to take a photo. And then we went to the [anon_INST13] and then we went to the [anon_INST14] as well um so it should be+ =oooh I saw these tweets. +quite funny [tech noise] okay The anti [anon_PL6] slander is so !unclear/! it's awful isn't it =The !children/! that that click on the girls they fancy !that's/! exactly what it is. Love [anon_PL6]. Yeah, I+ my granddad's from [anon_PL6] so I have to claim a bit of [anon_PL6], too. So I'm like, it's less personal to me than you. But yeah, this is quite something. I know [laugh] I'm not from [anon_PL3] or [anon_PL6] and I'm getting very emotional=. [laugh] ![unclear]/! But um yeah, it should just be fun um I sent an email out yesterday to a load of like um !unclear/! in [anon_PL6], and was like, this was a joke. We're not trying to be mean. And then we're saying let's have a cultural dialogue. Let's chat about it more it should be fun. And I also said, Oh, by the way our director's from [anon_PL6], so we're not, we're not trying to !unclear/! you or anything um yeah, so that's happening on Friday um we finally got the external drive. So I've now put everything on there onto Google Drive. So we now got digital backups. And it's actually there's= it's like a goldmine. There's so much in there. So it should actually make uh us making our own assets super easy. Like I was looking [anon_$002] on the topic of um pop up banners, they've got things like= they've got like ... these but pictures and I thought like that would make a really nice pop up banner, cos it's just a really simple mutual graphic. And then they've got um like collages of photos from [anon_INST4] throughout the years. So it should make life a lot easier now not having a digital partner for us to just do things on our own, and then hire a freelancer when we want to create new assets. Um, so that's a really good step. Now that we've got that um [anon_FN9]'s coming into the office next week, I think, [anon_$003] and I thought we can try and get her to write an article. So we can start building this like collection of voices from the youth board and the blog um we were trying to think about, I think sh= I kind of get the idea that she's more interested in like the project side of what we do. So we were trying to think of how we could get her to write a piece um if anyone's got any ideas about what might inspire her to write something she= she's ![unclear]/! [anon_EV6] with uh [anon_FN26]+ =yeah +so she could write about that+ =yeah that would be good + and where they see [anon_EV6] [anon_EV6] going ... I don't know maybe dream big where= where would= what they'd like to do with it. yeah, we were thinking something like, um get her to write uh a manifesto for the future or something like that for= u:m for [anon_EV6] or for us or something like that um yeah, we don't know !unclear/! ended up writing !unclear/! but I think that was mainly because he sort of um had time to do it um yeah we'll just see how that goes uh we had [anon_FN15] [anon_SN12] come in this morning to talk about her new book that she's releasing [anon_PUB1], which is getting released in May I think um and she was definitely up for just doing whatever, you know, publicity wise that we can think of. So she's really into getting involved with the youth board um obviously like the usual social media stuff um I think even= we even thought maybe if [anon_$004]'s open to it, she could come to one of the [anon_PR5] events and be a s=, you know as I was saying before [anon_$002] be that like image of this is where you could be in 10 years time because we started with that, and look where [anon_FN15]'s got now um so that was really good and she was just super lovely and really nice to see her cos I've heard so much about her Yeah [anon_$001], I think [anon_$001]'s read the book and she said, it's excellent. Yeah, she sent us the manuscript. And the the first poem was really visceral, but really, really good, it was yeah quite creepy. But yeah, and she said, it's also really nice to write stuff for herself, because everything she's done before has been like, commission so like !prince harry/! or the Christmas lights or something like that. And this one is actually like a reflection of herself and her own experiences. And she doesn't feel kind of ... pressure to write what everyone wants now, which is really nice to hear um yeah, and then the only other thing is that [anon_$003] and I are going to be writing the newsletter this afternoon, so last call out for anything, if anyone wants anything on there and I was going to ask a few of you actually, whether you know what happened with the payment of the membership because last time I was on there, it said that our membership had expired but I don't know whether that's just not been updated or not sorted. I'm not sure. The membership for uh MailChimp, MailChimp. I don't know, but I can find out. So did you use it last month. uh no because !anon_INST11/! !unclear/! for us last month. Okay and then this month you logged in and it says it's out of date think so yeah okay =I also noticed !unclear/!+ =I guess anon_FN7= do you have anon_FN7's personal address now his personal email address Um, I think he= yeah I think he sent it round he was being tricky a couple of weeks ago with !actually/! replying he doesn't think that he has any any ownership over it. And it lo= um [anon_$003] and I were looking it looks like I said, [anon_$003] it could be somebody else but it it looks like it might be like the YouTube situation again. mmm !unclear/! with= the one !I used to use with/! the newsletter it was like it was again like everything was making it very much+ yeah +and we had very little kind of actual power at the root of it yeah um that's why we literally just write the newsletter in a Google doc send it to [anon_FN27] at [anon_INST11] and she would do all the survey mon= uh not survey monkey [laughs] MailChimp stuff+ =Yeah. +so I I don't really know any of like the back details or anything. I guess it would be anon_FN7 that would+ =yeah that's what I assumed but he said it's not him. So well wh= who do you know who can log into the account who= =yeah so I can log in because I took over [anon_$001]'s account uh and I now made that a Contact Us one um the only problem is is that it has to= they have like a extra security measure where it comes to someone's phone. So they send a pin to my mobile number, which I then will have to give to whoever wants to log in um through the Contact Us, I think the only way that we can resolve that is if we have like an organization phone or company phone or something. ![unclear]/! You've got one. Okay. Yeah. ![unclear]/! phone uh I think= I've done= I had to change the ownership of a MailChimp account before in my previous job. So as long as one of us is the owner, that's= =yeah= I don't know if anyone can input uh the card details. I'll have to check um yeah you= they've got like different layers, different hierarchies of ownership. And it's like, you've got a manager and then an editor and this that and the other yeah but one person is the owner so you have an owner yeah think I think that might be [anon_FN7] but he said it's not him so does it= when you log in, does it say the email address of the owner does it say [anon_FN7] ... uh it says uh I'll have to log in quickly Yeah, take a look cos um if if= =yeah I'll have to update you on that later cos it takes a while !unclear/! I think that you could, if there were problems with [anon_FN7] changing the ownership, because what what may need to happen is that [anon_FN7] needs to login give the ownership to someone else uh+ =yeah= +then that owner can delete [anon_FN7] um and but but with with MailChimp, I think it's not going to be as difficult as you to like, if [anon_FN7] wasn't doing it, we can claim we can claim it with MailChimp, I I'm pretty sure because you know they they'll want money [laugh]+ yeah +they're gonna pay+ mm so ... I mean, their business. So I think um= yeah, so [anon_FN7] is down as the primary account contact um ... but it's with the Contact Us email address, the contact us at [anon_PL3][anon_INST4] um ... I just have to find= [pause][searching] I can't quite remember where to find the list where it tells you who's actually got access to the account but it is somewhere if I try [tech noise] !anon_FN7 I don't know/! maybe just like send him a screenshot of it and say look, sorry, you think you're not but you are um and+ yeah +can you just log in and change it Yeah. I'll see !unclear/! I did that a couple of weeks ago and um didn't get anywhere I have a feeling that I think we can actually change the billing information um from my account [tech noise] yeah ... yeah, you can. So we can still pay for it um but we don't ow= own it yet. Which is annoying, because I wanted to add you [anon_$007] a couple of weeks ago and this is where I kind of discovered the whole ownership thing in the first place well shall I !unclear/! through the contact us address and update the details yeah I'll log out now Okay, if you email me the um the login details, I'll just do that and update the the yeah and I'll just just sort it out with !my phone unclear/! [tech noise] !cool/! =well we still need to claim that ownership anyway. mm yeah whether [anon_FN7]= yeah, if if I think if you do what [anon_$007] says just do a screenshot if it shows that [anon_FN7] is the owner, and if he's not and if he doesn't respond, there must be a way to claim it through MailChimp. Yeah ... okay. Anything else? [anon_PR82]? um no not at the moment Okay, um, partnership projects [anon_$007] [pause] yep um the first one is uh kind of a new one actually I had someone from the [anon_INST1] [anon_PL8] campus reach out um and they want to put on a little exhibition whether online or um in person. They're not sure yet, about [anon_PL3] writers um so I haven't chatted to them much yet. But they've looked at our website, and they like our page where we've kind of listed [anon_PL3] writers, and they've asked if they can have permission to use that information um so I'm just going to say yes, because it's just just literally like biographies of DH Lawrence and things. Not stuff we own um but I'm gonna say yeah, and then have a chat with them a bit more about how maybe we can get involved in their exhibition if it's online um yes [anon_$006] do you think it's worth bringing this up with maybe like [anon_FN23] [anon_SN10] or someone at [anon_INST1] to just I don't know, to+ =yeah just to check if they ![unclear]/!= make it more formal+ I don't think checking but to formalize it more, and then it might I think she coordinates the partnership between [anon_INST1] and [anon_INST23], but maybe, I don't know, get her in the loop just because then you might get more support for it too+ =yeah= +if that makes sense Good shout Yeah. Can we be linked to the Chinese right right now as well+ =yeah= +if it's if it's in May, and that's already happening, and there's going to be um it's not specific about [anon_PL3], but there will be= it's a blended uh festival uh and then there's gonna be links to join from anywhere [laugh]. Great. Yeah ![unclear]/! =in the universities [anon_INST25] is involved in that as well as [anon_INST?]. Yeah, and I just think, maybe letting the steering !unclear/! because if it goes to [anon_FN23], the steering board will know and I think it's good to keep them in the loop, because then they might also find ways to support it happening as well which+ =yeah= +will save you probably time and effort too potentially I don't know much about ![unclear]/! at all. And it might be that actually, it is already a collaborative project =yeah yeah= for two= for the two campuses um and I think they're kind of looking at us as an external organization. Like literally all she wanted to do was take some information from our website um so I think I'll just go back to her and check like get some more details =yeah yeah um so only really heard for her today. But she seems nice um and yeah, I'll make sure to ask if she's in touch with [anon_FN23] as well yeah ... and make sure everyone that could be aware of it is because then you might get more from like, more help or more. Yeah, maybe you might get more help or some money or something I don't know but good good idea ... um the [anon_EV7] exhibition, that is one that we've been speaking to [anon_FN28] about um and she sounds happy for me to move forward with that we've confirmed a budget. So hopefully, we can get the youth board involved with [anon_EV7] exhibition um I'm just waiting on [anon_FN28] now to get back to us and see !unclear/! what she wants. And I'm going to have a phone call with her it was meant for this week, but haven't heard back. So maybe next week um so should have more of an update on that soon um oh, there's something at= [anon_INST16] are doing an [anon_INST28] um webpage for !offering/! creative opportunities for people seeking sanctuary in [anon_PL3]. So I mean, I'm sure we've got a few kinds of things kicking about that would be appropriate for that I was thinking maybe the multilingualism workshops might be a good shout or something we could pop on there um I had a look at the sheet before and they've got things like conversation classes um but then they also have more kind of, I don't know, like corporate-y type things like not corporate, but more things that you might pay for, but you're not paying for like art classes and things um so I think we probably put the multilingualism workshops on and if anyone's got any ideas for other um opportunities for people seeking sanctuary um let me know for now or because [anon_EV8] is happening. Yeah, I can pop that on. It's kind of things that are coming up. So I think [anon_EV8] will be fine [pause] nd then the other thing is [anon_EV5] I've been putting together a project sheet for that this morning and the budget um and will report back to you next week, once I've sorted out the budget and stuff. But I think that will be fairly simple. Not a huge budget, but I think it will be enough to kind of put on a nice local event, get kind of ten or so [anon_PL3] poets up and hopefully we can do some fundraising through that as well I was looking at the [anon_EV5] event last year. And we charged I think five pounds for entry to the local heat, um which if we sold enough tickets might be a nice kind of little boost of cash um so yeah, once I've kind of formalized that a bit more as well I can talk= =yeah I I think depends on where where we're running the projects. There's some local funding we could potentially apply for. So we could we could ![unclear]/! =take a look and see Okay =um there is uh the holiday activity fund uh that we can apply for as well. And I was looking at what activities taking part in all we're doing in the summer and there's= I know we've got the youth um [anon_EV9] that [anon_$004]'s planning that's one day, but ssay wth [anon_EV5] you were thinking we can get [anon_FN29] from last= you kno [anon_FN29] [anon_SN13] doing workshops over the summer. We could because I know um uh [anon_FN1] applied for that funding, and she's put some of it towards [anon_EV10] um last year, so we could but it= the activity needs to happen over the summer when it's for under= under 18s Yeah, that's the thing, I suppose ... I was wondering about HAF funding, but yeah, I think ... because it's targeted at everyone um I don't know how we could spin it to make it seem like a kid's holiday project, I suppose. Again, we get the youth board involved [laugh] um ... yeah we could= you and I can have a chat about it. I think+ yeah +![unclear]/! so the application's open now and I was looking yesterday at, you know, the pack so we can have a look at it. Okay ... um and that's it for me in partnership projects ... Okay, well, so I have a question about [anon_EV4] um now that you have the= they didn't send any posters right? No they haven't sent it yet um but it could arrive anytime from mid March to eighth of April. So if we haven't had anything by next week, I'll get in touch with [anon_EV4] Okay. And and [anon_$005] do you think we could get like that popup banner done maybe ... or =yeah I think [anon_$003] and I are going to look at um some options today. But I think given the assets we've got, I don't think you need to get a designer to do anything um because there's stuff that we could easily turn around. So pop up banner, definitely um I'm less sure whether we're going to get anything done with [anon_FN?] um I can try emailing his publicist again. But I have a feeling that they're both of with COVID because they both got we're sick out of office emails from them. Last week. So um yeah, I don't know how likely it is that we'll have that which is a shame, but I guess not vital for [tech noise] the marketing of that mm with the pop up banner, I think probably need to get it done sooner rather than later. I don't know how long they take to make. But I'd imagine kind of by the end of this week or early next week, it'd be good to have kind of+ yeah +shown them designs. ... yeah, I agree. I mean, you can get them done probably quite quickly in= depends if we want to go like eco friendly, or I don't know how eco friendly they are um or if you know, if we can use something like Vistaprint, which is quite cheap ... but may not be as eco friendly [laugh]. =do we just want the one just the one banner yeah I'd say I'd say just one. Yeah. yeah I mean if [anon_$003] and I put um some designs together today, I can send them round and then [anon_$003] could do that on Friday, just put them in an order in or something like that, or send it through !TPP/! Yeah, I think I think I think the important thing is that people know that [anon_PL3][anon_INST4] is there. Because otherwise how would they know [laugh] Yeah, yeah [anon_$005] if you get designs to me, I'm happy to fill out kind of the ordering and like finding prices and actually getting the= them done um but yeah yeah I literally think let's just do this but change the logo and the slogan and that= that's really nice, or !unclear/! ![unclear]/! should be simple Yeah, that sounds good. Okay, and we have another potential project. That's a project about caves. So it's a [anon_EV11] organised by [anon_INST1] in November um we've been approached to take part um [anon_$003] suggested, a writer that has done a lot of writing about caves, her name's [anon_FN30][anon_SN14] And she's very keen. Well, she's happy to take part in the project. So we just need to find out more ... once we know I think we're gonna be put in touch with an academic um at some point, and then we can just take that forwards. So that's, that's that one. And oh yeah and we did the well, the three of us, not [anon_$006] we did the [anon_EV12] tour last week which was= =oh was it good? really good =really good, and we were we were thinking again, there's an opportunity for the youth board to have a tour, and potentially [anon_FN2] and anyone else that missed it, and get young people to write about it um it was really interesting. Yeah, I forgot to mention that actually but I had uh an email from the lady who showed us round [anon_FN31] um and she just wanted to follow up on those plans with the board as well. So yeah, we can invite the board members that again, just in case they wanted to come I don't know if there's a maximum number we can have. I mean, I can't imagine we'll have too many but uh I think definitely take [anon_FN2] and if we can the youth board Okay um great. [anon_PR83] [pause][tech noise] um sorry I've misplaced it !unclear/! right well I guess I have something else while you do= while you find that [anon_$007] so we've got, we've been, we've put together an illustration challenge for [anon_INST17] students, um where we've asked them to do to do some to do graphics or illustrations of young people uh that we could potentially use. So I went to a session where they presented their ideas and some of them presented some of the work um it's kind of work in progress, but it just be really, really good to see what they produce um and see if there's anything we can use [pause] yeah [tech noise] Okay, I found the [anon_PR83] um so [anon_$004]'s action was to ask [anon_$001] to be a [anon_PR5] writer he says he's still waiting on schools will find out more when he's back [anon_$005] reach out designers for the [anon_PR5] blog. Last time I checked that was blocked waiting on the web redesign so I think that's going to be blocked for a while [anon_$007] chase up the office supplies delivery [anon_$003]'s laptop stand is in the middle of nowhere um and I'm= ordered the wrong keyboards for the new MacBooks. So that's a shambles, but they're being sent back. The new ones are coming and [anon_$003]'s !unclear/! will arrive I think that was at Subway. Yeah, they arrived at Subway. Anyway [laugh] Chase up the Youth Advisory Board Board Papers from [anon_FN20] and [anon_FN17] they've send those through [tech noise] Create new YouTube channel [anon_$003] and [anon_$005] that is also blocked, I believe. And then the last one was sorting a gift for [anon_FN2]'s start date I started the paypal pool. So for those of you that haven't already made a donation that's there if you would like to. And yeah, that's kind of everything. And I also want to say thank you everyone for contributing to the Board Papers uh I think they're nearly ready. And yeah, let's see what the board has to say next week [laugh] okay, well um is there anything else from anyone? Just that I'll send around those permission forms after this to make sure you're happy with yourself being recorded and sent for research purposes [laugh] okay oh I'm sure it's nothing too incriminating is it like= is it the thing that= were they meant to start it a while ago? So [anon_$001] sent over a couple of videos= feel funny that they'll be watching this [laugh] =I know that's yeah yeah yeah that's what= [anon_$001] sent over some videos a few months ago um+ = I think I remember [anon_FN1]+ ![unclear]/! +sending me something about it yeah And I think ![unclear]/! I think is it a linguistics project? Yeah, it's an ![unclear]/!= =I have been sat here wondering what they're going to be analyzing [laugh] ![unclear]/! feeling quite self conscious ![unclear]/! [anon_4004] wore a space hat last time we did it. oh really oh [laugh] ![unclear]/! well I think it's about how people communicate during meetings during online meetings. It's currently I imagine it's probably like multimodal analysis, though. So that'd be watching us like fiddling about like, me kind of my hair all the time. I've been quite conscious of that !unclear!/ they'll be analyzing us analyzing what they're doing as well now Yeah yeah exactly make it really matter let's freak them out um [laugh] oh dear on that note [laugh] we might stop the recording [tech noise] ![unclear]/! sorry everyone really weird watching yourself use that ![unclear]/! [laughs] speech + ![unclear]/! can you hear it? Very quiet? [pause] no eh? [tech noise] ![unclear]/! += quite far away [tech noise] ![unclear]/! is it the microphone? ![unclear]/! eh? is that better? eh? [tech noises] is that better? [tech noise] [pause] is that okay? thats better yeah great cool is that okay? [anon_$002] cant make it today ![unclear]/! so I shall be leading um the agenda. um But um but first up, we've got [anon_PR5] [anon_$004] Yeah, no real updates um I've been on leave since the last meeting so ... fair enough uh [anon_PR4] [anon_$006] Um, so let's think [pause] um I've been, I'm putting together some case studies with [anon__FN25] um well we're putting together the template for them to then give to the college lecturers to provide us some information that we can turn into case studies that will both go in the teacher pack and contribute towards the policy guides. um yeah ... um I still have been translating stuff from Slovene into English um which has taken up quite a bit of time um ... What else has been happening? ... um I guess like one of the main things is prepping [anon_FN2] for [anon_PR4] stuff. So she's been sent quite a kind of comprehensive overview of everything that's been done on a broader scale. And locally ... there are some fairly kind of ... there are some issues that [anon_$002] and I were speaking about last week in terms of the time plan and my contracts that are really crucial to the project actually being completed and finished on the [anon_INST23] side um ... yeah, that's a big concern um But hopefully it will get sorted. Once [anon_FN2] has started. um Yes, so I'm having a chat with [anon_FN24] about it on Monday, but she's been aware of the problem since January. And also, um [anon_FN23] [anon_SN10] who is kind of in charge of stuff at [anon_INST29] is also going to arrange an um an interview. I've been doing interviews all morning um a meeting when [anon_FN2] starts to discuss it because it's a bit of a big problem at the moment in terms of getting the project finished um yeah but apart from that and yeah, and we've booked the venue for [tut] booked the venue for ... the workshop so that is something that we can actually do because that is something we can do um [laugh] So yeah, the workshop thing is booked and then it's just working on some other bits um One thing that is maybe worth flagging is that when [anon_INST29] pay if they're not on approved, [anon_INST29] supplier, it takes longer for everything to go through because [anon_INST29] have to do like a kind of risk assessment thing to check that we can use a certain= we can pay money to certain people luckily [anon_INST7] were already on their, like list of approved suppliers or partners. But it wouldn't have been that way with the [anon_INST6], which I thought was quite interesting. Yeah. um Yeah. So things can move forward on that front. But it's really difficult. I'm doing things for other working groups that are going to be useful in the immediate future. But it's really hard to plan for the end, the planned end product [tech noise] of this intellectual output that [anon_INST23] heads because of some of the issues that kind of [anon_$002] and [anon_FN24] are aware of, and will need to be flagged to [anon_FN2] when she starts, basically, that was kind of all there is really ![unclear]! [tech noise] !guesss! the call out for facilitators on everything, and thank [anon_$005] for doing really excellent work on that. we've had some really good engagement actually so hopefully + oh nice [laugh] cool yeah Yeah, I think they look really good. So thank you+ that's alright + it's [tech noise] been excellent work. Great. Yeah. I'm sure that I haven't had anything through yet. But im sure i will like over the weekend, yeah. Cool ah Next [anon_INST192] planning that's [anon_$002] and she's not here but I'l think she'll send an update or a reaction after the board meeting tonight [anon_INST10] [anon_$007a] is with us today [tech noise] ![unclear]/! hello folks would you like to give us an update on the [anon_INST10] Yeah, sure. [laugh] [tech noise] I don't know if you can hear me [moves screen] there you go yeah, we've got a meeting uh tomorrow um so the agenda is all underway. um And ![unclear]/! we're at [anon_INST15] tomorrow, we've got quite a few things um to discuss. I think !guess/! I can always send the agenda to you guys if you want it um But yeah um updates in terms of what we've been doing, um we're currently putting together a new recruitment pack um and trying to get some new recruiters for September um And yeah thats it really um oh I've been I've kind of changed how we're sending opportunities out to the [anon_INST32] a fortnightly, um kind of like an opportunity ![unclear]/! youve got the Google Drive now as well. Yeah, you got the Google Drive um And you'll see easiest way to get access to users ![unclear]/!Okay, exciting yes [laugh] um We're moving really quickly, content [laugh] uh yeah we Have lots on ah ![unclear]/! the April Fool's thing we did which was uh silly, but um has a serious intent of actually driving new people to our site. And increasing visibility, worked really well what we had ![unclear]/! hits on our website last week, looks good just checked, disproportionate amount of views um also got this uh airplay on radio Nottingham must TV got a mention and I think we !guess/!have others posted that blog as well uh So that's good. um [cough] I'm a bit out of touch with my patch I've been off for a few days so I don't [anon_$005] explain it better what have we got um [pause] gosh I'll have to look at facebook Yeah, ![unclear]/! yeah the newsletter's gonna be late um just because we've been um you know [anon_INST11] leaving has sort of thrown us a little bit with that ... figured out how to do it so it's actually not that hard at all. So it kind of makes us wonder why the song and dance when we're doing it with them [laugh] but um yeah [laugh] uh so that's hopefully going out at some point next week, there is still time if anyone wants to add anything but the call out for facilitators is out on ![unclear]/! um as is [pause] [anon_EV4] um that's on there as well um [anon_EV4] comms I'm going to start next week. Haven't heard from ![unclear]/! Unfortunately, don't think it's gonna happen which is like not the end of the world but it's a shame ... um yeah, we've got a piece from [anon_FN133] [anon_SN57] going up, hopefully, on Thursday I think I might have scheduled it for+ yeah actually I'll put it up on Friday when I'm working yeah um about his play [anon_EV32] that was her script reading last month uh what else? I need to look at facebook Yeah, [laugh] don't worry about it we'l get back to you with the detail there's also things as well, we're working+ the [anon_FN134] [anon_SN_58] thing as well. [anon_$004] we're putting that up on social media. Oh, yeah yeah [anon_EV33] yeah, we commissioned [anon_FN129]. We've got the [anon_PL173] residence starting up again soon uh so we're going to commission our last [anon_PL173] ah residency person in what do we call placement person, [anon_FN129] to write something up on that, which will be nice ah We've got the library launch. Coming up soon the uh the um children's library first children's library thing that [anon_FN130] was doing ah I've got to write an article about that and write loads of contextual stuff around that as well. uh We have met with [anon_FN15], were going to have a piece with her about the launch of her new book in may and also take on a bit a role as um content uh comms advisor facilitator for that, yeah um In= this afternoon, obviously, it's [anon_$005]'s [anon_$005]'s graduation. So she'll get a mortar board out there [breath inhalation] uh And I've been talking at that for less than three minutes. [tech noise] um Yeah, there's lots and lots of little bits off. We've a load of students coming in a load of students is it two or three? ![unclear]/ coming on uh Friday as part of the [anon_INST17] rise placement scheme where we have them for a day and show them what we do. I'm taking them on Friday, and [anon_$005]'s goingto support me I think on that um and on Wednesday, she's doing it alone. So if anyone's in the office Wednesday uh it might be handy and she can are you in the office? on the 13th Yeah, yeah yeah that will be brilliant, because we'd really like them to see what we do here uh aside from comms [laughs] we will pencil it in for scheduled ![unclear]/! scheduled for that ![unclear]/! um anything else is outstanding. uh there's loads of congratulations one of our writers, will we say a [anon_PL3] writer anyway, has been nominated for a BAFTA ah for writing about um he writes the scripts for [anon_INST210]. and he wrote one about them doing um when he was sort of just um very clearly taking the piss out of uh [anon_INST211] and and [anon_INST212] and that's been nominated for TV moment of the year so we're going to do a little thing on that as well cos I think that's quite amusing um um [anon_FN135] [anon_SN59] has just got a book deal with [anon_INST213] um lots of new books coming out. So we've got loads of little bits of content. We've got far too much happening at the moment to be honest. If you can tell any crazy friends to start doing stuff, that would be really handy um yeah lots and lots and lots of stuff but do send us stuff if you notice it always happy to get that and delegate it ![uncler]/! oh and [anon_$005] officially starts with us on Monday, and do you know this I don't know if you do or not but [anon_$005] finishes today she graduates today and therefore she will be as an intern as an intern and she ... will be out of work for a few days and then on Monday well four days including the weekend and then on Monday she starts with us as uh communications= um communications officer. Yeah, so she will be working directly with me um should be in that role for eight months eight months um hopefully hopefully a lot longer ah So yeah, we are comms ![unclear]/! for Monday so she wants to be doing that anyway yeah [laugh] uh I poached her early from ![unclear]/!. So yeah, that's about it for the comms unless you've got anything to add no do you want to say goodby to everyone [laughs] we're not going to have a leaving party for her today cos she's temporarily going feel free to celebrate at home [laugh] so yeah um okay so partnership projects. So the big one is [anon_EV4] at the moment um giveaway is taking place on the 20 Giveaway distribution of free books in [anon_INST214] will be on the 22nd of April which is a Friday um And as far as that goes, uh we have received all the books so me and [anon_$007] have been packing them up today and putting in the little bookmarks and things um so I've got them in four boxes ready to go to the primary schools um which [anon_$004] if I am right are [anon_INST215] [anon_INST216] uh ... [anon_INST217] and the [anon_INST18] [anon_INST18] haven't got back to us. I'm still waiting on the contact [anon_INST217] and the [anon_INST18] to get back to us as well um ... I have got some backups. So [anon_INST201]. I'm working on another project at the moment. And they seemed keen and they're in the, the cohort group in terms of where we're looking at in terms of literacy um outputs um and I'm sure we can get another school but we've definitely got three, two out of our initial IDs and another which isn't currently engaged but has been previously um and then it's just essentially us IDing a fourth school if if [anon_INST18] and [anon_INST217] don't get back to us but I will try again am and use my kind of contact book to try and try and get over the line with that one but [anon_INST217] and [anon_INST18] have not got back to us as yet. okay no worries I think I'm gonna send them out next Wednesday !guess/! so they arrive for the nineteenth after at least the weekend um so yeah, if you just ask someone to confirm by then that'll be great. And worst case situation we give some schools double ... um ... brill and then the banner is all ordered. So that's nice um We've got totes and things I'm going to order a table so at the moment, it's looking like there'll be a few of us standing by a banner with trolleys of books giving out free stuff. So I'm thinking we will all wear blue T shirts or something just so we all look a bit more cohesive um and potentially a gazebo I might ordered depending on the weather just a thought there was also another thing um on the comms side of things um we have this thing called reading hour so on actual I think it's from like seven to 8pm on [anon_EV4] itself uh I thought it'd be nice if = if you can take a picture of everyone reading !unclear/! the book and then send them over to me and [anon_$003] we can pick up some stories or something like that but I [unclear]/! doing that that was the only thing really !guess/! becomes ah [unclear]/! [echo tech noise] shall i put some some copies of the book aside just so we can kind of play with it Yeah, [laugh] ... yeah and I think it'd be a good opportunity to share some tote bags as well basically if there's anything you think that we can maybe get rid of those a little bit branded like bookmarks this was the time ... um but yes, that is all looking good um [anon_EV5] getting started on the planning um again [anon_$007a]'s been helping me with that um we've got a small budget for that about 800 pounds so that's for a venue um and ![unclear]/! money so it's kind of tight so we're just looking for other options for that at the moment am and thinking the final competition will be suggested donation [echo tech noise] [unclear]! get a bit of cash for that um so still got a while yeah until the/! call out for so won't worry about that um I think that's kind of it we had that lovely [anon_INST218] tour um that was a couple of weeks ago but the lady who curated that is has been in touch again and she wants to offer tours to other groups that we have contact with um and obviously the ![unclear]/! board [anon_$0007a] suggested the have ![unclear]/! board as well um so I don't know if anyone has any other kind of outreach groups that they think might be interested in doing that tour um um I've got all the [anon_INST32] contacts for the city for [anon_EV31] so I can send those over and you can have all of those that would be fantastic thank you that's about 12 organizations briliant I am meeting with her next week and I'll let her know but I'm sure she'll be buzzing about that um [pause] [tech noise] okay, that's it for me on partnership projects [anon_PR83] I feel like I've really sped through this is is everyone okay? [laugh] [laugh] ![unclear]/! good ![unclear]/! !guess/! we should do more meetings like this [laugh] [laugh] um the only thing left on the [anon_PR83] is [pause] ![unclear]/! for a while ![unclear]/! organizing a present for [anon_FN2] for a start. Yeah. ![unclear]/! I think most people have donated if not there's still a few days left to donate to [anon_FN2]'s present um thats everything and I hope haven't given you all whiplash uh [laugh] [laugh] any other business [pause] uh [$004] so just quickly to jump in on where we are with the library's campaign. uh yeah So it's moved on to community consultation and personnel. So that was the first consultation meeting at [anon_INST19] with the community yesterday, which was quite productive. And I also got like 20 minutes at the end just chatting away to [anon_SN9] was really helpful um he wants us to be involved, or certainly having, [anon_$002] to be involved in a roundtable discussion in terms of interested parties, because I think they're definitely feeling the backlash of proposing closure to three libraries. Now [anon_INST19] is one of the ones where I think they are most hard pressed to keep it open. I think that the university are under pressure around [anon_INST20], because of the changes to the demographic of the area, which has been widely caused by the expansion of the university, and it becoming a student area um but it's it's rapidly lost a lot of its facility in terms of [anon_INST21] closing last year, obviously, the students have their own leisure center that the community doesn't [breath in] again, the students have a library the community doesn't. If [anon_INST20] goes um with [anon_INST19] they're looking to bring ... kind of a consortium of the willing gather, to look at what are the options um one of the things that [anon_FN21] mentioned was whether [anon_INST23] would want to be based there, which had me questioning the [tech noise] kind of accepted wisdom of I thought we were going to be based at [anon_INST21], and he kind of dithered um and from chatting to colleagues in the library service to the the office space at [anon_INST2] is is incredibly limited. And they've got quite a lot of library staff so I think we've got to be wary of that of of us going oh, we're going to be at some [anon_INST22] might not be a thing now um [anon_$003] [tech noise] yeah that needs to go to the board don't it early, because um I think that's [tech noise] quite confident theres theres um promises and stuff. But obviously, that's board level stuff isnt it? And [![unclear]/! that's, that's the feeling I got from that um. do you know it anyone on the board is aware of that does [anon_FN16] know? I don't know. That when [pause] the timeline for [anon_INST8], especially because I know that [anon_$007] and I have been looking at planning for events and things to happen uh there was also some eyebrows raised when I was like, oh so it's looking to be early next year. And they were like mm yeah, so I think there's there's a lot of issues with [anon_INST8] at the moment that [pause] aren't necessarily being passed on to us. I think that's probably because there's no [anon_$001] ![unclear]/! [anon_FN21] and [anon_$001] having a good working relationship. But um we're planning for things that might not be a reality in the timeline that we need them to be um so I think it's just making sure that we're all aware of that, though um I've got a I've sent a big long email to ![unclear]/! today because there was loads of things I need to pick up with libraries And they're just not getting back to me. So. um Yeah. can you give [anon_FN16] a little heads up on the !guess/! date so a phone call pre pre the meeting, because [pause] obviously its he's the closest thing we have to a director at the moment I suppose as well obviously ![unclear]/! You know, he he's obviously got, he has a conversation with [anon_FN21] and everything but if if nothing formal obviously you know, but if we just sort of say that there might be some uncertainty in that he can pick it up from there, that there was there was a strong indication, that's when because in the conversation, I was in with [anon_FN21] and with [anon_SN11], his consultation manager, that that they they were pushing towards [pause] organizations like [anon_INST23] to be based out of [anon_INST19] to convert some of [anon_INST19] into office right to keep the library open by having it as a joint use between creative organizations, a smaller library space and an activity space. I think that would fly I'm fairly sure that would fly ![unclear]/! so we just need to get this place. Yeah ,![unclear]/ I'll give [anon_FN21] the heads up on that, because it's probably worth him just knowing at least are you alright if he can contact you if you want to. Yeah, absolutely. He's got my number I think but yeah, yeah, just thinking that date is quite important for [anon_PR4], too, because yeah I think the event was meant to when we host everyone, I think it was meant to tie in with the library opening so what was said to me was that they wanted lots of things to be happening in the run up to not the library actually being open. Yeah, but it be weird yeah yeah national partners going, Hey, this is going to open soon. Let's have a look at what might happen in here. When it opens. It doesn't really make any sense. So mm yeah the whole point I think [anon_FN1] aspiration, which was generally agreed on was the fact that the ![unclear]/! really embrace the concept of [anon_INST4] by using the rounded up libraries. The [anon_INST4] you know this is this is the expression of what we actually do here in software, but ![unclear]/! or anything it's not exactly the most visible place uh in that way so yeah um yeah ![unclear]/! So what was the latest you had on this but [anon_FN16] should be fairly filled in so I will talk to him. Yeah, like, I'm I'm I'm probably fairly pro [anon_INST19] because it's 10 minutes from my house. It's great. It's my local library. mm ,But obviously, that doesn't suit everybody. Yeah [laugh] but no shame in basing it there but just just in terms of visibility of the [anon_INST4] as a whole and we can also perhaps serve on the practicalities um Yeah do you think? ![unclear]/! just by ![unclear]/! some sort of bargaining tip to [pause] I couldnt quite hear what you're saying there [anon_$003] sorry oh yeah yeah you don't think it might be some sort of bargaining chip on [anon_FN21] behalf here some sort of wouldn't have thought so because he wasn't expecting me to be at the meeting like it was okay It was a public consultation meeting that I went to as yes as a [anon_INST4] member of staff but also a community member and a school governor so sure okay yeah it's a bit weird but I'll talk to [anon_FN16] ![unclear]/1 try and work out I suppose [pause] okay any other business from anybody else don't think so no no okay, well, we finished in record time [laugh] I think maybe I need to pace myself a bit more [laugh] um now you've got an extra free half an hour [pause] so go and enjoy yourselves everybody. wayy [laugh] um yeah see you soon oh and [S004] thank you so much for agreeing to come to the board meeting tomorrow um that's great um so I'll see you then mysef and [anon_$007a] will give you a thumbs up [laugh] [laugh] Could I get a copy of the papers please i'll send it to you now thanks, [$007a] alright see you soon tara bye [tech noise] [pause] there we go sorry [laugh] Okay. Um, so shall we go through the agenda then? mm um so [anon_INST4] projects ... [anon_PR5] [anon_$004]'s off ... um [pause] yeah ...we had= the only update, I think uh uh we had a chat ... as in [anon_$003] [anon_$005] and myself kind of looking at the comms and what needs to be done, and the regional activity plan. So [anon_$005]'s going to update her comms plan. And we're going to meet weekly now just to go through everything because we're getting very close to [anon_EV8] and we're hoping to catch up with [anon_$004] as soon as possible just to see what's been confirmed with [anon_EV8] and where we can support him ... other than that ... uh we'll just have to wait for [anon_$004] [pause] does anyone have anything else about [anon_PR5] ... no [laugh] [anon_PR4] . um yeah so I guess shall I start on the kind of broader project with the partners and what's been happening there. So um myself and [anon_FN32] have basically produced some documents, kind of templates that the college partners are going to send to the lecturers. And from that, we're gonna have a series of kind of case studies and like activity planners, um for the teacher resources. So we're gonna start building up these case studies um but they will be quite useful, a for [anon_FN32]'s working group that produces the teacher pack, but also they can contribute towards the IO three output, which is what we're doing. So they should come in over summer, which is good for the first round, from the first kind of round of piloting. So [anon_FN32] and I have kind of got these protocols and questions for them. And then from that, we'll have this kind of packet of um activity guides and case studies from each college. So they should look quite nice, cos we've managed to get um somebody to do it in all of the [anon_PR4] like branding colours, it looks quite pretty. um then I'm just working on with the data that we already have planning a report that we're going to kind of get done over the summer, and in time for [anon_FN24]'s next report to [anon_PR11]. So basically, it will just be a kind of evaluation of the data from the first round. So we're putting that in report form now. So kind of what we can learn from this, what's worked, what hasn't worked and how we're gonna take that forward in the project, but it's also handy to have that for the IO three output. So that's really good um I'm meeting [anon_FN33] tomorrow um to discuss how ![unclear]/! I guess, basically, [anon_PL9] were meant to be the dissemination lead, but [anon_FN34]'s gone [anon_FN34]'s gone to finish her degree, basically. So [anon_FN33] and I are going to kind of work together to take over [anon_FN34]'s kind of role, which is just kind of making sure things are uploaded and disseminated and kind of press releasy bits. So that's something else that's happening. So that's on the kind of broader, more international side of the project. And then I guess, the workshops ... [anon_$007] I can't remember what day the project meeting was last week, what stage were we at with the workshop facilitator kind of process. So this time last week, I think we decided who we wanted but hadn't confirmed with her yet. But she's now accepted um and seems to be keen to go ahead. And then now we just need to ... get in touch with her again and send her a more kind of updated guideline of how we want the workshops to go um and work with her a bit to ... come up with a nice workshop outline um and then we need to speak to [anon_$005] about pushing the events on social media um so apart from that, I mean, it's all kind of going quite well, isn't it? We've got the venue booked ... =yeah= =got the facilitator just need to make it happen now Yeah. So I contacted [anon_INST29] yesterday, because obviously, I've got a project code through them. So I just need to check how we go about hiring a freelancer through them. But that should be fine, because people hire translators quite a lot through similar project codes so touch wood that all should be fine. um= So [anon_$006] will the contracting of that that person go through ... university? Yes, I think so. I don't know= I don't know if there's a way to like basically, I I did want to ask, like, can we just take the money out and put it into like [anon_INST23] but I think because I'm getting it through a project code because when I I had a look at the last email that I got, because um we obviously got the invoice. From [anon_INST7] to pay for the venue, and then I was like shit, we have to pay it through the university. And basically, their invoice system takes a bit longer. So at the minute it looks like it takes something like 28 days for the payment process. And it's really slow, but if= [anon_INST7] aware. So that's fine, because I um worried when I get these little reminder emails, but they are aware. So yeah, the freelancer um [anon_FN35], she's, I thought she= she had lots of really good experience. Like, she's really good. But yeah, we'll make sure [anon_FN35] can get paid through that. But I've also we should have enough in the budget because even like= she doesn't live in [anon_PL3], but she was actually the most local person that applied, but she's not too far away. So I'm going to look into getting her mileage covered for it because we should have enough. And then when I looked at the budget yesterday, we definitely have enough from the budget to ... get a zine produced through [anon_INST30] so that's good. And I think they're already= this is= they like= they're already a recommended [anon_INST1] supplier I think so that shouldn't be an issue with getting that payment through+ =yeah= +um so yeah, I think everything's going well, I think what we probably should do, I think is the next step with the facilitator. I think because we're going to make it quite an open call for participants, it won't be the same, not necessarily the same 15 people for each four ... get= kind of get a kind of theme and a brief kind of description of each workshop as a starting point. And then we can start to try and recruit while we refine the plans with the facilitator for when it's time to= when it's June. So, yeah, I think it's all going quite well. And I think the payment side of things will sort itself out [anon_INST31]'s always interesting with expenses, but I think it should be fine. um yeah so seems quite good What I was gonna say is and= if um somebody could just= [anon_$007] you may need need to remind me to do this, sorry, to add this you, if I'm part of when I was at [anon_INST9], something called the [anon_INST32] . So I can either like put in the kind of call out in that group, or I can get= [anon_$007] I can get you added or [anon_$005] added. So we can kind of tap into that, like national network, and maybe colleagues at the ![unclear]/! spread the word, [anon_INST9] or whatever can share that as well. So when we're talking about like, sharing reach that, obviously we want to focus on, like people in [anon_PL3] but like maybe just making ... kind of colleagues at a national level aware of what we're doing and like+ =yeah= +this cool thing is happening in [anon_PL3] ![unclear]/!= =I think that's a really good idea. Even if it doesn't get people on board, it makes them aware that something is happening as well. And I think that's really+ =yeah+ +important as well= and I think, something that I'm mindful of with like what we're doing in just generally as like we're doing really fantastic work is how we can make uh us like the activity that we do on the radar of like, colleagues outside of [anon_PL3] and [anon_PL10] so they're like, oh, cool. We want to collaborate with !unclear/!= =Yeah yeah yeah, I think that's a great idea. So yeah, but yeah it's all going well can I ask one thing, [anon_$018] just while I= because I just started looking at the NPO form, yeah and I wasn't 100% sure. Are the characters with or without spaces? With spaces Okay, that's fine. So yes, that's+ =thank you= +Yeah, that's like, super fun when you're yeah I have to say um= = ![unclear]/! let's just make young people YP and every every =yeah that's what I want to do and I was like I probably can't yeah um yeah I applied for fellowship quite recently. And it was like= it's a plan for like a three year research project and they wanted a= a 100 word abstract for a three year project um [laugh] it was hell lots of abbreviations um but yeah, thank you. I'll get that to you by the end of the day. And then we can fiddle around with it afterwards. So =yeah so um well, that goes into [anon_INST202] planning was there anything else you wanted to speak about [anon_PR4]. no sorry I just thought I'd ask because it's on my kind of [anon_PR4] like to do list this+ =no no no +afternoon but yeah, with spaces. Okay. Cool. um ... ![unclear]/! So mostly, all I've been doing is writing the [anon_INST202]. And so what= ... touch wood, whatever uh we should have a= a very basic draft, which will be going to a subsection of the board at the end of tomorrow. For them to review and to give their input to that. Get back to me on Monday. I um then going to like ... finesse that a little bit more so then it goes to the full board on end of Tuesday [laugh]+ [laugh] +for them to get back by the end of Thursday, so I can spend the rest of the time wrangling !Grampian/! ... uh+ mm +so that's fun but I will share the more sort of finessed draft with everybody once I've had input, for example from like [anon_FN37] [anon_FN15] at [anon_INST17], and board members and stuff. But um I just want everyone to be assured that I'm= we're not going to like, put in an application that nobody from the staff team has seen. [laugh] !cos that wouldn't be/! very nice or fair um ... so there will be further opportunity for comment um but just so everybody knows that, it's= it's my favorite phrase in the immortal words of Sir Alex Ferguson, squeaky bum time uh so um it's yeah very compressed timeline uh+ =yeah= +um if you do get an email from me going, do you know anything about this [laugh] because I'm very appreciative of !the help/!+ +all help uh right now um so [anon_$007] I might actually drop you a line about the [anon_EV5] thing um because we'll need to put some sort of proposed succession measures and targets and we've put some numbers on that. So like 50% of participants feel that they've got career development. So I might just ask you to do that. I think it's also a useful sort of development opportunity for you to like, think about when we're talking about our kind of outputs and impact and success measures for you as kind of project leader to be thinking about that if that's alright. [laugh] Yeah, that sounds good um I'm going to talk about [anon_EV5] in a minute when it comes on to partnership projects, because I had a good meeting with [anon_FN11] ![unclear]/! ... um but I don't think it's my time to talk yet [laugh] Actually um the evaluation framework that uh [anon_$006]'s put together, [anon_$007] has put onto a Google Form so she's, I mean, [anon_$007] got some= probably some idea of some of the questions we will be asking to measure ... you know ... ho= people's experiences. Yeah that would be just really great wh= and= and I'll send the same= the same thing that I sent to [anon_$006] which is like, it's 600 characters or something um+ [laugh] +it's like describe your project in a tweet um+ [laugh] +um so yes, thank you very much. I think that's probably everything at the moment [anon_$002] is there anything you want to say on ... No, just I'm just, yeah, ![unclear]/! principles, principles, templates, which just let me know what else you need I'm on standby for [laugh] [laugh] ![unclear]/! I just would like to use this opportunity to thank everyone so far for all their help and input it is um ... yeah uh an interesting way to start a new job. mm it must be hard, like, yeah, I was thinking this today. I was like, not like how on earth can [anon_$018] like write all of this about [anon_PR4], but it is a big ask when you're like two weeks into the job to be like talking about these projects that you're trying to like, find your feet with a bit too. I was like, this is quite something. Yeah [laugh] yeah It's a good way to like, get an an overview= [laugh] Yeah. I guess And then like, I need you and your expertise to input into this and I also don't want to ... kind of misrepresent the work that we're doing um in any way. And I'd rather that it's put in kind of, to the best of our ability from the start than having to then like ... completely rewrite it, like, let's try and get it right from the start. So for example, I probably might be able to just speak to [anon_$004] next week so that the [anon_PR5] work is kind of really kind of kind of crystalline in that+ mm +so it's very clearly communicated. um so that's, that's ![unclear]/! where= where we're at um yeah ... [breath in] it's um I'm really quite looking forward to the hitting send and then I think we'll have to have another team social. Yeah [laugh] That that drink will taste very sweet. [laugh] Yeah um [anon_INST10] any updates [anon_$007] um just on the application process, really um so we have= oh and we've got a date for the next meeting, which will be the ninth of June um and I've asked [anon_INST15] to book a room for that um ... for the recruitment, we've had 19 applications um and me and [anon_$002] were talking yesterday and we think a good thing to do might be to ... pop them all in a spreadsheet because none of them are particularly long um kind of two to three paragraphs um and score them. So I'll come up with a scoring criteria and we can get= so far we decided [anon_FN38] and [anon_FN20] and myself and [anon_$002] to score them but if anybody else wants to get involved with scoring um feel free uh but quite a quick turnaround for that we'd quite like to have them scored by the 10th of May um with the view to hold interviews or kind of a= not so much an interview, but a chat to meet with um ... the the shortlist and see what they're like and see if they're still interested. And they can ask us some questions as well um for the 31st of May um so yeah, today, my job is to get all of those applications in a spreadsheet and kind of circulate them and ask [anon_FN38] and [anon_FN20] as well as they can do some scoring uh tomorrow, or over the weekend or Monday um but yeah, that's nice, nice to have loads of applications um and I haven't had a very thorough look yet but from what I can see, it's quite a mix of kind of teenagers from [anon_PL3], and quite a lot of university students as well. So we should be able to get a fairly ![unclear]/! recruit= recruitment [laugh] um yes, that's kind of that for, for the [anon_INST32] at the moment. Can I ask you a quick question, which is helpful for [anon_INST202] ![unclear]/! like, how many kind of [anon_INST10] members are we kind of looking to have for each kind of cohort I think 12? Did you say we wanted the same as the regular= I keep calling it the regular board? I don't= I don't know what we should call it ... the grown up board? [laugh] Well then we we've been talking a lot with with [anon_FN39] about the [anon_INST32] renaming themselves. But um on the last, you= not the last week or the previous one uh they were saying that, I think there's nine members at the moment, but a few inactive already. And then they the at least two maybe leaving after September because they go to university or work or so we're thinking about recruiting five or six mm and maybe having kind of um like a period of time that they're committed to it. And then we re= recruit for every two years or something like that, because= we were saying every Easter+ =every Easter +depends on on again how people move uh in terms of they= they have to yeah, basically, if they move out of [anon_PL3] or ![unclear]/! turn 26, or they go to university, we just need to consider those and and make decisions to see if we recruit three, four uh but yeah, we were saying six and because we= we want to invite them. I mean, I was talking to [anon_$007] about this, because we want to invite them ... so that there's the= after the conversation we have with them, we want to invite them to observe the board meeting the youth board meeting, saying maybe we need to split them because we don't want six new people in one youth board meeting. So maybe three for the June one, uh I don't know three for the ... um autumn one [pause] and then they can decide we can have another conversation with them and ... just to see if it fits with what they want and with what we want ... we need to really think about how we're working with the youth board as well and make them more active ... uh in our work [pause] yeah ... and anyone that's exiting, actually, we should have like an exit board interview [laugh] or something just to+ =mm +really see what they gain from the experience, what they what they wanted to do more of and and and how we can improve. Because because I think we've piloted for over a year now and it's a good, maybe we should do it with all members actually, just to see where we're at. mm [pause] yeah, yeah, I I wonder ![unclear]/! [tech noise] in the [anon_INST202]. And like, all those limited characters I've got is whether we just make a note that say we're going to work with the [anon_INST10] on on their sort of name and identity and the kind of terms of reference, they have a terms of reference that they just drafted+ okay +um I think it= I think ... I wasn't sure if the terms of reference had the the term time [laugh] because I think we said maybe up to three years. But yeah, we need to= we can refine the terms of reference Yeah. [pause] and they need= well we've been talking a lot about them having their own space on the website on the blog on social media ![unclear]/! !andbrand them/! as the [anon_INST10] =yeah I think probably just needs like a slightly different like name maybe like ... uh= [silence] that's= Yeah. yeah [silence] Anything else [anon_$007] or+ no I think that's everything on them okay um yeah, that's it. mm content plan. =oh [anon_$007] did you want to speak about [anon_EV5] Yeah, I'll do that in partnership projects [anon_PR84] have an email from [anon_$003] and [anon_$005] okay [laugh] yeah any questions about that? !mm no/! [laugh] Partnership projects okay [laugh] yeah. So [anon_EV5] um [anon_$002] and we met with [anon_FN11] [anon_SN6] uh on Tuesday um she said yeah, I'm just checking the date um and basically told her what we were thinking of doing and kind of explained that we don't have a very big budget and asked if she would like to work with us on it um and she looked at the dates we had um I think our original date for the big kind of finale was early December um but that actually coincides really well with their [anon_PR12] project, reading, writing and pleasure at [anon_PL11] where every ... um quarter, they do a big poetry slam um ... and she is really happy to collaborate with us on that. So they've hired out [anon_INST33] um and everything's kind of set up there with like live streaming um and it's all= I think it will just be quite easy to host it there. And it's good that we can work with [anon_PL11] on that ... um so that's good. And we're just kind of brainstorming a bit, really, but she's got lots of nice ideas um because the theme is climate um and the environment um and what she normally does at [anon_PR12] is kind of interview someone from [anon_PL3] and so she was looking at get= interviewing [anon_FN39] [anon_SN15], from [anon_INST34]. I think she was quite excited by the theme of the environment. So she was thinking she could choose a comic that is focused on the environment um and then when we have our ... finalists performing um ... we can like follow on from that a little bit um and then she had a few other kind of fun ideas that we can do in the voting process. And we were thinking we could do kind of live voting in [anon_INST33] and also online um so that all sounds quite exciting um I think having a venue is [laugh] good um yeah, that's, again, still kind of early stages. But it was really nice that she wants to work with us um I think in return, she wants things from u= I can't remember exactly what it was [anon_$002] she took some videos of me and [anon_$002] saying what we're reading uh [laugh] I think she just wants us to kind of support her projects and stuff as well, like whenever we can on social media or+ well we mentioned workshops, and she was really keen to do some workshops uh+ yeah +ahead of that. Yeah. And I I wonder if that's the way ... [anon_$007] we can like test, kind of, like do some R&D of what we want to do with [anon_EV5] for the future Yeah, definitely. Yeah um um. I mean, she also mentioned the= she's got like a monthly uh what was it like a? Is it like a poetry= It's called [anon_PR12] cafe? Yeah, like a smaller version of the big event um= ![unclear]/! and they usually have featured emerging writers uh so she was keen for us to suggest people to go and talk on that+ yeah +it's in the [anon_INST35] [laugh] so and she wants to say that= it's open to the public so she wants us to help promote that, and ![unclear]/! aids in partnership with us, which so= sounds good. Yeah. And it's again, a really good way to engage young people, because it's not at [anon_INST31] we can ![unclear]/! involved. mm that sounds really good Yeah [anon_$018, I know you're meeting with [anon_PL12]. Who is it from [anon_PL12]? [anon_FN3]. So I was thinking I could just write a quick summary of what I chatted about on Tuesday and send that to you before you meet with them. Fantastic. Yeah. When I was in= at that meeting, he just said, oh, you know, let's just have a chat. So um I'll do that. I think it would also be good just to share with them, like our kind of longer term plans for [anon_EV5] as well. So they're aware that we could use that as a sort of springboard for more+ =yeah= +kind of ![unclear]/! development activity. Yeah and and I think uh because [anon_FN11] was asking us and I think it'd be good to know from kind of [anon_INST4], what's expected and how much we can shape it to the way we want to make it ... ours !on how we move/! forward ![unclear]/! ... and I I kind of have a feeling it's quite flexible .. . but just be= it would be good to know what needs to happen what ... is flexible. [breath in] I mean, I think [noise] the impression I got from [anon_FN3] is that like, if you ![unclear]/! you don't have to host something and I was like no, we're really excited about it. And this is what we're doing. So being able to update him but also saying like, we want to use it as a way to sort of do our own like [anon_PL3] ![unclear]/! projects or kind of pillar which then feeds into that. So The activity might look like just some [anon_INST4] partners you know, we've got how= whatever poet going forward but we've done, like you know three or six months of activity, which is like leading to that point. Yeah. So um yeah ... ![unclear]/! just send me whatever you kind of want me to speak to [anon_FN4] about [anon_$007] and I can= fab will do there's a few other bits going on as well, um [anon_PL3][anon_EV3] are running some inclusivity awareness training from ten til three on the 23rd of May um there's not loads of details on that yet, but I think we'll probably have at least one or two um of us will be able to go. Is that right [anon_$002] um Yeah, so this, this was a conversation that's been happening for quite a few months. And um they've offered us this training for free um they've not clarified how many members of our team can go, but it seems like probably all of us could go if we wanted to um I think there's going to be quite a lot of focus on anti racism, which is quite a big thing for the investment principles. So I think if most of us can go, we should um and the trainer is very focused on on those things [!unclear]/! she's in the= she's part of the [anon_PL3] project But yeah, it seems like the details have been confirmed really, really slowly. And because there's= [sneeze] now with the festival, I can't imagine we'll hear much until the week before. I'll send an invite to us all to block it out in our calendars and just kind of update you when I have more from them. =um= =uh= ![unclear]/! it= it's worthwhile if it's worth inviting somebody from the board to come if we can and they could+ =ok= +report back to the board. Yeah. !cool/! Don't know who that would be [laugh] um [anon_FN8] [anon_SN5] would be great if she can ... Yeah, I feel like she's already had quite a lot of training like that, though I wonder through her job. Shall I= I've got a meeting with [anon_FN16] later shall I ask [tech noise] [anon_FN16] Yeah [pause] [tech noise] uh yeah but is it= they'll just have to make it work with the with their day jobs. Yeah. That's the main issue Well, I suppose we could always say these are the dates. And this is the time and if somebody wants to come let us know ![unclear]/! be even just offer it up as an opportunity. Yeah. yep [anon_FN12] [anon_SN16] would be quite good as well [pause] Yeah. I'll wait and see what they say. And hopefully we'll get some more details. soonish or in the next month or so? Because uh well, actually, in the next week or so, because it's happening this month uh but yeah, I'll let you know. Yeah, it's after the NPO anyway. So at least [breath] yeah I need to do my safeguarding training before a particular date in May ![unclear]/! so squeeze that one in oh yeah I'm sure it won't take too long. It was only !yeah/! I think like 20 quid yeah, yeah uh just a couple of other bits um the [anon_PL5] project I'm a little bit worried about because it was meant to be= so that's the workshops taking place in [anon_INST15] about the um [anon_PL5] [anon_INST36] exhibition. And then following on from that they wanted [anon_FN38] and [anon_FN26] to host their [anon_EV6] um also in [anon_INST15] um and [anon_FN38] and [anon_FN26] are really keen to do that. And they suggested a date, it's the 24th of June. um but the communication's been a little bit slow between us and the exhibition. And today, they've got back to me and said, they can't do the 24th of June, they'd like to do the 21st of May for the workshop, which is obviously really soon. And then the eighth of June for the [anon_EV6] poetry thing um which is a different day to the one [anon_FN38] and [anon_FN26] are wanted um so I just kind of think I'm going back and forth between these great hardworking teenagers and this museum a lot. And I don't want to stress them out [breath in] but I've asked them if they could do these new dates um and see what they can say. And hopefully, even if they can't do the workshops, in literally like two or three weeks um hopefully they can do the [anon_EV6] on that date, at least, but ... going to wait and see what the [anon_INST36] people say um but yeah, it's a bit of a shame. It's just all been quite a lot of back and forth and feels like nothing is really getting sorted [anon_$007] who the people that you're speaking to at the [anon_INST36] so it's the [anon_INST31]+ ![unclear]/! +are curating with it um so it's a researcher from the [anon_INST31] called oh what's she called. She was the one who did the tour of the [anon_PR12] She's a curator for the [anon_INST31] . And it's an opportunity to have that courage to the young people in the workshops are very tight unless [anon_FN26] and [anon_FN38] already have people in mind ![unclear]/!+ =Yeah. Which I'm not sure. So ... [breath in] yeah, that's kind of a bit of a shame, really. But ... at least if we have the [anon_EV6], they can, you know, there could be a bit of an introduction from the curator um and maybe a tour of the exhibition or something beforehand, even if the workshops don't happen. But yeah, I think they've been a bit ambitious with+ =yeah I mean+ +!timings/! unless we could approach say, one of the societies because there's like ancient literature history or something like that in the [anon_INST31] Yeah, like history society and things like that. Yeah, that's a good idea those two societies could get ... students or members [laugh] to attend =yeah= that could be quite ![unclear]/! !for people but/! we'll need to let them know sooner rather than later. Yeah, it's funny, because I think they kind of just wanted us to like source some youth for them, I guess. But then it seems ... that I don't know ... it doesn't feel very organized. But that's a really good idea. I'll recommend that they speak to a society ![unclear]/! =![unclear]/! reach out to the other [anon_INST10]s, like in in the city+ Yeah. +like, with the contemporary or whatever, and saying, like, we've got this opportunity, if any of your members want to come to this. Yeah. And get people to sign up. And if they get enough, then they go ahead. And if they don't, they don't um yeah, we've definitely got lots of people who can promote it with so I guess just have to hope for the best. But yeah, it's exam time as well um ... maybe I'm being cynical and negative, but I just don't [laugh] feel like I just don't know if there's enough time. But yeah, we can just try our best+ =![unclear!]= +and send it out to everyone+ =I think the thing= +and see what happens. =[anon_$007] looking at your reaction is right is is you know, is is and then also to manage expectations of that partner and say, look like, hey, you know, we can track these dates, but like just giving you a heads up, it's exam time X, Y, and Z. And so attendance might be not what we had anticipated+ Yeah +which is why we suggested a later date. That way, if they go ahead, and they don't get as many people as possible, you've been really clear and said ...+ Yeah with these caveats. And then, you know noone, noone can turn around and go, Oh, we were expecting like this many people, and we only got whatever is you know+ Yeah. ![unclear]/! ![unclear]/! yeah I mean, we've been having conversations with them since since February. So I don't know how it takes them so long to confirm. But+ yeah yeah, that's a good idea. I'll let them know [laugh] um !I'm very/! keen to get uh to have uh creative writing in the gallery. So moving forwards, we could do more work with them as well. Yeah that's everything from me, apart from the [anon_PL4] exhibition, which is going well, and I think that's gonna be great um and there's a few kind of events going on with Chinese right now. It just sent over. So if you want to go to any of those, let me know and I can book you in um+ =!when are you going to/! talk with [anon_FN26] and ... so their interview, they're having their training on Monday um and their interview is on Sunday the 22nd. yeah, so that's the= next= the day after the workshop so I'm going to be= it's not really great yeah [laugh] [sneeze] bless you [sneeze] Yeah yeah we'll see. I'll speak to the [anon_PL5] lady [laugh] ![unclear]/! okay um and and in terms of partnership projects, we had an email from [anon_INST?] yesterday, from the [anon_PR13] project um ![unclear]/! [anon_INST4], and and even though we've not been promoting it much, they, they originally ![unclear]/! developed the project in 2020. And they contacted three of our writers that um kind of applied at at that time, and then invited them to take part. So that's really, really great news. So [anon_$003]'s aware of it ... if he's aware of it, we can track it ... track it mm and uh yeah, I mean that's that's I don't know seems like a nice collaboration nice opportunity to work with them without having to do that much work [laugh]. So ... !the only other thing I wanted to say/! it's more of a comms one is that [anon_FN?] got in touch about ma= The Mousetrap anniversary about doing something about marking that but !get back/! to [anon_$003] and [anon_$005] to pick that up. So like premiere at the [anon_INST5][anon_PL3] and it's on in [anon_PL13] too so let's= it premieres in [anon_PL3] I saw a= at the end of September. Yeah. So it's quite a long time. I originally was here in 1952. So yeah. I'll see. That's cool. Anything else? ... Not for me. um just action checker, I guess. I think oh, I just have= I haven't an any other business [laugh] um which is just about the um governance subcommittee meeting. I've had [anon_FN37] [anon_SN17] PA, emailing me and asking if it's going ahead. um and ... dunno, if it goes ![unclear]/! on Friday, uh [anon_FN16] ![unclear]/! he was going to suggest um canceling it and I asked him if he wanted us to cancel it, or who was going to email her and I've not heard back from him okay +so I'll nudge him this evening on that Great. uh yeah. Now that really is everything for me [laugh] [pause] Anything relevant with the action tracker? [anon_$007] mm [pause] no, the only thing to do on that is sort the [anon_INST32] recruitment, which I um on so that should be done by the end of the week. Yeah, I mean I think well, I've got a couple of things. So then to you. We have a couple of [anon_INST17] student challenges. One is with illustration, um illustration [tech noise] and graphic design. They're presenting their new= their their final uh uh briefs on Monday. So [anon_$003] and I will go to that. And uh and there's another one with HR [anon_INST17] HR students, and they're going to look at our staff handbook, and just give some advice [laugh] ... that's it. [pause] okay, well, thank you, everyone. Thanks and I'll see you soon. See you soon. bye bye so that should be happening now upps turn off that transcription. im not yeah okay it will come up okay good [anon_$024] is going to join us a little bit late and I think [anon_$021] is joining us as well isn't she [anon_$020]? yeah I think she is yeah [tech noise] yeah [tech noise] everybody's very quiet and sluggish this morning [laughs] the impact of the end of semester I think as well isn't it? everyone's feeling a bit depleted [pause] [tech noise] right you know what we might start away actually on a few bits [anon_$020] that [anon_$021] will already be aware of in any case um in terms of what's happening [breath in] so um yeah good morning everyone and thanks a million for coming along to the meeting we haven't had one for a while but we didn't really need to, there was a lot of activity going on in the background [coughs] and I'm a firm believer in only having meetings when we need them so um lots uh the abstracts have all come in fabulous turn around thanks to everybody for all their cooperation on that and for turning around the reviews really quickly and thanks [coughs] especially to the um abstract submission and review team who I know were beavering away in the background and getting lots of things organized so well done to everybody um we have around 100 presentations in total um which you know that's that's what we were hoping for that's what we're aiming for um at the same time it's probably the very minimum that we need so I'm pleased that it's got to that there are a few very few kind of late ones coming in and if they do we're still accepting them if anybody hears of anybody or gets any inquiries do just put them in touch because there's no reason not to accept them at this stage the schedule hasn't been done and there's nothing else um happening that uh would prevent us from accepting any late ones but we're not advertising that fact, either I think we extended the deadline and that's um you know that's probably as much as as we want to do so that's all been happening um and a few other things as well so we have um a few updates at the moment we have um 44 registrations um so that's you know, that's that's what tends to to happen the registrations will come in last minute before the earlybird closes which is the end of May and we've also given as you'll have seen, all of the speakers have until the end of May to register as well so that's when we'll really get a sense, an overall sense of numbers but um you know it's it's tipping away nicely, to have that many registrations in um we're all fine with you know room bookings accommodation all of that is happening the plenary speakers are being looked after in the background the flights are being booked I think this week is the plan to get them um booked on flights so that uh they'll be all sorted and ready to come um accommodation, um obviously is part of the package we were told yesterday by the the conference partners [anon_FN1] and um [anon_FN2], that uh accommodation is is under severe demand on campus this this summer there's a lot of events happening and lots of catch up so if anybody does need accommodation or knows anybody who needs accommodation, I mean, we've booked enough rooms for this conference, but at the same time, don't be slow to to, you know, tell friends or colleagues to to book um as soon as possible just to make sure that um that they get what they want okay so that's kind of it on the the kind of the the communications with the conference partners. um we might run around I'm sure there'll be various things coming up we'll run around to the various teams did I see? I did see oh no I didn't see [anon_$021] coming in actually um [anonS022] we might start with with you and [anon_$023] maybe on the social media, anything to update or report there? nothing major I think um there's yeah still a bit of activity people kind of following um up the last couple of months um put out a few tweets just based around the uh acceptances coming out but [tech noise] that [pause] created a nice bit of organic activity to be retweeted that stuff so um and then the odd tweet in between those things with just pictures of the campus from my morning jogs [laughs] around the campus yeah thats [laughs] as as the seasons are changing. I think it's just kind of attracts people to the location as well am apart from that I cant think of much [anon_$023] do you have anything to add there? no I guess this was the quietest period for us because all of the abstracts had been submitted and there weren't as many notifications that we had to send out so I guess we were just retweeting and sharing things when necessary so I guess this was our quietest period calm before the storm [laughs] yeah [laughs] great thanks a million guys it's it's been wonderful ![unclear]/! those those deadlines for registration yes sorry [anon_$019] yes absolutely deadlines for registration the early bird and stuff coming up at the end of May so yeah and also um b= before the end of next week we hope to have the workshops the pre conference workshops advertised and up on the website ready for registration um so that'll be another one um that will need a few tweets um we're planning to keep the workshops free in terms of registration other than maybe a small cost for uh lunch for anybody who wants to avail of that option if they're attending a full day workshop so I think that's quite a nice um attractive feature as well to the conference to be able to avail of a workshop for basically for free um so they will be all sorted by the end of next week as I said and uh up on the website so that's another= =um just um like will there for [anon_FN3] it it it may trigger some inquiries if people want to maybe have a connection like if they just they see the workshops they they they've decided maybe well I'll actually come a day early just to flag that might come up and I think if I remember correctly [anon_$019] is the process that I think [anon_FN1] and [anon_FN2] can do that um directly [pause] if I remember yeah I= were they going to do it on the website in the end [anon_$020]? I can't remember what the discussion was. ![unclear]/! yeah maybe when we need to go back? because I imagine [anon_FN3] will get yes an enquiry or two on that you know just the what if go back on it because I've had a few inquiries just from people I know [breath in] yeah let's let's double check I'll i'll double check that with um [anon_FN1] and [anon_FN2] to see if mhmm that's an option on the on the registration form yeah say someone may have already booked X number of nights, and then they might want another one or equally I think the problem with the booking now maybe they've sorted that was that they it didn't necessarily allow you book before a certain date [breath in] but there was no problem when people you know inquired [tech noise] yeah yeah I mean it's not an issue so but but it would be easier if we could put a clear message on the website in advance you're right [anon_$020] yeah so you don't get lots of of emails in relation to accommodation for the workshops [breath in] okay [breath out] great we'll move on to um I'm not seeing [anon_$021] either [anon_$020] yet [anon_$021] but that's okay We'll we'll wait another while um I just sent her a text there [anon_$019] so yeah maybe she could sometimes she has technical difficulties getting in, doesn't she [breath in] um I'll just run through some of the other um the other um groups um some some of the other teams will be starting to become a bit more active fairly fast now so [anon_$025] uh your group on the session chairs and the the programming and all that will will start to really from the end of May once we have the early bird registration out of the way then we'll have a sense of who's who's actually attending um what does tend to happen there as well and again [anon_$025] just keep an eye out for for this um once people register you you then often get a bit of a flurry around people requesting their presentation on specific days ... so you know for travel reasons or for whatever reason they they're you know they're they're happy to so it would be useful just to keep it a kind of a you know a little Excel sheet or something with those requests on them so that when um [anon_$026] and [anon_$021] and others start to work on the schedule and the chairs then we we have um that to hand fairly easily so that we can we'll try and accommodate those requests of course if possible um usually it is if they come in early um in advance of the schedule being drafted um do we have? so [anon_$026] yeah no do we have any idea of the number of people who volunteered to be chairs? yes we do that is all and available and should be easily downloadable um [anon_$021] is is the lady to talk to+ +![unclear]/! +for that she she certainly will be able to download that very easily it's on I've seen its on a sheet on a on a column on a spreadsheet um the the ticks are there so +yeah, yeah so [anon_$027] and myself will will have a meeting so it will be closer to the end of May youre saying before we+ + i'd say probably the first couple of weeks in May [anon_$026] okay yeah we'll start kind of pulling the the registration information um and then there's usually kind of a week where we have to follow up with people who, who have been accepted to present a paper but may not have registered just to figure out if they are or if theyre not coming. mhmm because there's always a few stragglers um and then once we have that probably around the second week in May+ +okay +we should be ready to start am getting a schedule and the chairs together. okay yes that's that's it and we'll have to cross check as well [anon_$026] we'll have to cross check the chairs with the registrations mm to make sure that anybody who volunteered to chair is actually attending yeah yeah but you know= we have uh we have um quite a few um emails that went out to the chairs last year I I certainly from from the [anon_EV2] conference, we have them well drafted and with the information that they need and things like that so I'll pull those up as well [anon_$026] and start forwarding them over mhmm do you think there is a need for kind of a training session or any kind of um [laughs] or maybe just an email with things to watch out for or something like that I feel is good I think so given that it's a face to face conference, it's probably okay I mean last year we did offer training to the chairs because ehmm+ +it was all fine on the technical side of things ehmm+ + needed going through um but I think this year, I'd be happy enough, I think to what do others think? I think just provide them with the you know we're back to the kind of yellow and red cards and things like that in the rooms yeah I think it's fair I think an email is enough otherwise it's just yeah or for us to to organize unnecessarily probably +yeah exactly ![unclear]/! +yeah it will be my first face to face conference um because I started online uh but what I did was I'd go to another session so yeah what we could do is+ +don't put me first [anon_$026) [laughs] [laughs] we could put a little instruction sheet with those cards in the room simple yeah+ + four or five little hints or something like that would be good just kind of guidelines. yeah yeah perfect and I suppose to have a kind of subs as well as we did for the um oh there's [anon_$021] now as we did for the um [anon_EV2] conference yes+ + ![unclear]/! team So ![unclear]/! the [anon_EV2] one was fun [laughs] virtual [laughs] running virtually from one room to the next. [laughs] it's actually harder than running physically from one room to the next actually [laughs] trying to figure out the Chinese+ +who's in and who's not in who's in and who's not and getting in [laughs] [laughs] morpheme talk halfway through the paper trying to make ya ask an intelligent question at the end of it [laughs] [laughs] exactly [laughs] the joys actually an in face to face conference it's not that difficult when you know a few of us will kind of hover as well on the days between the rooms and just kind of you know peek in and make sure everything is is going to plan so it should run more smoothly okay um so that's the the session chairs and the kind of scheduling side of things um I did see [anon_$021] coming in [anon_$021] are you there [anon_$021]? hi apologies technical difficulties this morning [laughs] we figured [laughs] okay, we've just gone through some of the social media stuff and updates and um from yesterday and also just talking a little bit about the schedule and registrations later on so [anon_$021] you probably have have most information to hand in terms of in terms of updates? Do you want to brief us on what's been what's been going on in the background from your end? sure so we've managed to get through 118 um ex= we have 118 accepted papers mm oh that's I didn't realize it was quite that high fabulous it's good um 10 of those being posters ten or twelve of those being posters sorry I'm just trying to find the number here um and the breakdown is we have around 11 from Ireland which I actually thought was kind of low we have 33 from the UK and another 36 from the EU and then the rest are spread around the world we are as far away as Japan Taiwan a couple of people from uh from the southern hemisphere as well so it's really broadly spread um I'm expecting another six or seven papers to be+ +it's nice to have that buffer, isn't it? because not all of those people who have been accepted will ultimately travel +yeah yeah yeah I would think so um so at the moment um [anon_FN2] sent me the numbers [pause] this morning and speaker registrations are [pause] actually I don't have a full number here but it was 44 yesterday [anon_$021] so it's probably around that still I would imagine yeah yeah I will take that and there's quite a lot of people going through [anon_$025] inbox with queries so we've been dealing with them over the last uh last while there are a lot of queries coming in about uh paper acceptances we've had a good few rejections as well in the end but they were just papers that have gone through a very rigorous process we've had more reviewers for any paper that's been rejected so it's very very clearly um eh ju= just papers that didn't suit the theme of the conference really for the most part great great okay does anybody have any queries or questions on any of that [anon_$025] are there any particular kind of communications that that are coming through that um you you+ +yeah yeah so+ +need discussion or+ +I suppose I was just um double checking that you know that I have everything had been followed up and I just identified uh one or two who um shou= should have been no= they were told they were notified but am we don't have any anything back from them to say whether they've made the edits or not I think as far as I know [anon_$021] one of them at least didn't come back with edits so I'm just going to chase back on these people who I think some people had difficulty navigating the website uh they seem to get lost as to where to click to find their um do you know whether their paper was accepted no not whether it was accepted because they got an email for that but where to go to do edits and then sometimes when they did edits um I think at least two submitted by mistake and then weren't able to go back to able to go back and resubmit an another version of the revised paper so maybe things to bear in mind for further conferences because they were I think you know it's a bit difficult to to uh to work with the platform or maybe it's a matter for everybody to get used to it um yeah, some participants I think felt quite frustrated [laughs] even though there were they try not to have too frustrated a tone in their emails some of them you know you could sense it quite loud [laughs] and and obviously I replied and and there's a lovely communication with the registration team [anon_FN3] he's very good to follow up because obviously I don't have access to the platform myself so I you know communication is where and [anon_$021] is wonderful thank you [anon_$021] for you know following up everything that I wasn't able to to follow up on so great team but you know yes sometimes you know it's not always and thank you very much for your help [anon_$019] and [anon_$020] as well when I wasn't sure how to word an answer you're always there to help me. So great support but you know that's to be expected to know uh that people will encounter difficulties you know that that's to be expected and there's also one paper [anon_$021] that uh you know I talked to you about it I won't say the name but of a person who It seems I don't know, might not be accepted but he's asking for an acceptance letter so we'll talk about that separately yeah. yeah it does get busy around emails from here on out really and am thanks for for keeping on top of them you're really efficient with them um and of course [anon_$021] I mean you know you're very familiar with the different platforms and and feedback to [anon_FN1] and [anon_FN2] in terms of the eventsair platform will always be welcome it is a newish platform and then they can constantly feedback as well so um that's good okay great thanks a million is there anything else [anon_$021] at your end? ah just just to follow on from what [anon_$025] was saying we have around we only have around seven papers who haven't submitted of the group that were accepted with edits we have around seven that still haven't managed to get through so it is it's it's difficult supporting people who are trying to um complete their edits so we're leaving the platform open till the 16th of May at the current time as an extension so anyone can go in and edit their paper cos it's such a busy time of the year um and in that time as well any new papers I suppose particularly from committee members who might have a really really really late [laughs] abstract to submit you can still put [laughs] it in until the 16th of May and we will we will find it on the system for you and get it through yeah it's always a difficult balance isn't it I mean most conferences don't really allow for edits but the fact that we've been doing stuff online and and the system allows for it we decided to do that to give people the opportunity to to hone the abstracts but then of course the downside of that is sometimes the technicalities around it can be challenging. So yeah it's it's something to bear in mind I suppose for the future ... okay great thanks uh thanks everybody um okay we will move on to um yeah the the [anon_$025] there was one other thing that uh we were going to mention are you okay with all of the kind of there there will be some requests for letters and certificates and all that kind of thing coming in as well yeah my my understanding is that [anon_FN3] takes care of that when+ +that's ![unclear]/! + so basically I forward um yeah such a person is looking for an acceptance letter or and he is very good and he double checks as he did for the person I I mentioned that he he saw that person hadn't been accepted so he couldn't issue a letter yeah absolutley+ + uh yeah + the conference partners generally take care of all that certification and letters and whatever else needs to be done which is great they have kind of templates that they use yeah and also just for the documentation may I just thank [anon_FN4] [anon_FN4]'s taking notes today oh lovely just to say thanks thanks [anon_FN4] [laughs] and [anon_$019] did did we decide at one of the weekly meetings that given how how many requests came in after [anon_EV2] for letters uh certifying uh certs of of you know that a person presented a paper particularly in countries like Spain you have to have a cert did we decide that it was easier if [anon_FN2] just gave everybody a cert because she just had it went on and on and on you know the emails looking for certs for months after the conference yeah we we I remember we had that discussion [anon_$020] then I can did we go around in a circle a bit with it+ + mm yeah because what happens is [pause] even if you issue everybody with a kind of a standard template cert inevitably people come back because they want specific mmhm information on it yeah and every university in Spain wants something different not just spain [laughs] you know [laughs] not using that ![unclear]/! [laughs] [laughs] as an example forgot this is being recorded [laughs] [laughs] so it's it's just using it as an example that sometimes people require specific information but yeah maybe maybe it's better it might actually+ +yeah yeah ![unclear]/! +stop the kind of tsunami of of emails following the conference I mean Spain is a good example because genuinely your portfolio has to have it so you're right that has specific requirement it has to have particular things on it yeah so yeah maybe you and I could bring that up next week yeah just it would be um it's really to minimize workload for [anon_FN2] because as you remember [anon_$019] yeah ![unclear]/! new members went on for months and and some of them you know wanted more than than what was required and some of them we had to stamp and sign [anon_$020] and some of them mhmm have the conference partners and yeah it does just when you're beginning to kind of breathe a sigh of relief [giggles] when it's all over this [laughs] this kind of starts up but look equally we're happy to to accommodate people as much as possible that's that's part of the nature of these conferences yeah great we'll bring that up yeah thanks [anon_$020] okay am and I think we'll move over to [anon_$028] because I think you've been having some discussions on now we can start really thinking in earnest about social events and and those niceties of the conference so I know that you had a a meeting with [anon_FN1] and and [anon_FN2] so do you want to maybe give us a quick update? yeah I will indeed am yeah they're brilliant I mean they they really have it in hand oh am so we're gonna have a follow up meeting next week because what they wanted to see was the registrations to date and I know I'm hearing we're not fully there and we're doing it early May in order to get in a good time and then they're getting very busy with conference other conferences as well but we're planning for two entertainment slots um within the conference so the welcome event which is going to be in the millstream building and that'll be more background music so we're gonna engage with the [anon_INST1] um and get get to for example we haven't we haven't finalized [anon_FN2] um at our next meeting she'll come back with with suggestions but for more background music for the welcome reception something Irish themed and then !guess/! spread the conference dinner again Irish themed perhaps traditional music dancers as well um I suppose we have a budget 1200 so I think that's I think it's about 100 euro per person per hour as in per performer so we should be good to get something substantial you know what I mean for the for the pavilion dinner um and then after that really any extra events they will there I mean there isn't that much time because you've got the welcome event on the Wednesday and then you've got the conference dinner so we will be offering suggestions we'll keep them campus based [anon_FN2] gonna come back to us but we talked about morning yoga which I think was done for um [anon_EV2] last year um an art tour of the campus a flora and fauna tour of the campus so she's going to come back to us with details on that and we'll be able to publicize that and even on our website already from the get go they've put up quite a few suggestions of you know places to visit in [anon_PL1] and around [anon_PL1] as well um I think that's it yeah they're just they're brilliant I mean they just have it in hand and [anon_FN2] will take the lead on the entertainment side and her contacts um so yeah so I shall have= what I do is I think I'll send after we have our follow up meeting will begin to um [pause] so in the next few weeks I'll send everybody an email that might be the best idea and kind of detail out the specifics great and the the conference dinner is on the Friday evening isn't that right [anon_$029]? I think that's what I'm looking at um I've loads of notes and I'm thinking+ +I think so yeah so yeah I think so as well so the Wen=so the Wednesday yeah we talked about that so the Wednesday will be the welcome reception Thursday first of full day and then conference you know people relaxed and into a conference dinner Friday so we're not gonna organize another event for the Thursday both from a budget and just to you know I think people have enough going on and and people might want to pop into the city for dinner+ +exactly explore for themselves and no I I think two organized events one of which is a conference dinner plus the other little bits and pieces is is more than enough for a short conference. um [anon_$028] is asking the capacity of the millstream I think we'll be fine it's it's the big room isn't it? which is now converted to a a classroom but can be presumably for the summer kind of reconverted into a function room yeah that's the one talking about [anon_$029]isn't it? with all the glass on it. yes yeah yeah I think ![uncear]/! too big yeah yeah [anon_$029] just just ah something that ah [anon_FN2] may already have but it might be useful exercise as well to have a listing uh of restaurants in [anon_PL1] um for you know people if they want to book something for Thursday night etc yeah yeah I'm sure they have it I'll have a look on the website if it's not there that's something then we need to+ yeah ![unclear]/! +anyway and at any stage do we go out? or is it just through the website we publicize anything like that and then we tweet about it on social media or publicize um on social media and I think they can probably quite easily build it into the conference app as well [anon_$029] when the time comes um so they will be you know we we were talking yesterday about having am a PDF kind of book book of abstracts available on the app yeah as well as the shedule and things like that so I would imagine that they can have a little button or a tab or something on the app which will you know allow them to advertise the social events and restaurants and things like that [pause] kind of you know additional information or useful information. yep even taxi numbers that kind of stuff theyre as you said they're well used to this they know exactly what what people are looking for and what people need yeah so that's the exciting bit of it is nice to start thinking about those [laughs] social events isn't it? and being on campus for them I know hard to believe it will be great yeah it It's definitely looking like it I mean I really think um for now at least and hopefully we're were coming quite close to the summer I think any discussion of of an online event is probably moving further into the background thankfully um and we've we've made a firm statement also about not having a blended options other than the recording of the plenary sessions which we will do and make them available possibly not live but but certainly afterwards [pause] so I think that's that's as much as as we're committing to and I think we've been fairly clear in the messaging around that and the external organizing committee are also in supportive of that decision I think [breath in] so um yeah it does though raise the the issue as as you were saying um [anon_$021] a lot of papers have come in from far reaches of far corners of the world and you do wonder if some of those people were maybe hoping that at last minute it would convert into an online conference and whether they'll actually make it in person but look we we there's nothing we can do about that well just have to wait and see [pause] so we do have a nice little buffer okay good um I'm just looking here have we missed? Is there is there anything else from from anybody? I think I've gone through all the various groups. um yeah can I can I? oh sorry [anon_$031] no [anon_$025} that's fine Ill come to [anon_$028] [laughs] about publishers I suppose it's early days but I've had a second a second email from the same person from [anon_INST2] um I'm just wondering I I've sent him a message already to say we'd discuss it so I'll have to to reply to him again but I'm just wondering it's probably early days but how should I+ +no I think reply to him+ [anon_$020] has started um looking um okay we did have some email discussions didn't we [anon_S020]? because we ![unclear]/! yeah um normally uh so I think um [pause] the norm for [anon_INST3] Talquin [anon_$027] would be much more familiar is that the edited volume It's not proceedings it's a kind of curated volume of a certain number of papers comes out of the um each conference and it's always been published by [anon_PUB1] so [anon_$019] and I will be putting in a kind of pre proposal uh for that and um so that's normally where we go uh other approaches we can deal with on a case by case basis so might I might follow up with you um I I may have already corresponded on that [anon_$025] but I'll follow up after the meeting on that one okay thanks sorry uh just to continue on with that [anon_$020] it was with me he contacted me as well and I responded okay to him with the wording that you had given me I think his name was [anon_FN5] I'm looking in my email yeah yeah he he sent another email yesterday that's why I'm bringing it up yeah okay what I'm going to do [anon_$025] is ill I'll forward my correspondence with him as well so you're aware of what I have said to him perfect yeah thank you yeah yeah you um that also triggered um yeah discussion online did we= has anyone been in touch in terms of actually having a stall at the conference a book a bookstall um yeah I think there was I think there was one I have to double check know who it was exactly I think just one+ yeah+ person yeah it's probably [anon_PUB1] the uh [anon_$027] you might remember in [anon_INST1] they had a big stall they may have been the only the only um publisher [pause] there I think yeah I think did [anon_FN6] mention one other maybe [anon_$020] I cant remember yeah but we did did we do a mail shot um I'm sorry now my memory is terrible um did we do a mail shot to the to the publishers like we did for [anon_EV2] we were talking about it but we didn't in the end did we? no no we didn't no no I think [anon_FN2] [anon_FN1] was going to put together a package wasnt that it? yeah now its coming back to me that's another one maybe for us to follow up on yeah yeah yeah id forgotten about that yesterday um so [anon_FN1] kind of puts together a package um for publishers um yes because remember she said that she could even provide them with some simple online options for the app advertising through the app and things like that so she was going to put together various options and a kind of a price package around some of those things yeah that we could then email to the publishers so yeah we do probably need to follow up on on that yeah with her [anon_$020] and were not late because I think no all the uncertainties publishers probably wouldn't be in position to decide on so you know around now anyways so we'll do that um and you and I um can um follow up then once weve had a chat with them actually uh sorry I just remember now I don't have the email there but we were contacted by a person who said that they would send us brochures and things like that but they wouldn't man a stand mm there was one yeah email like that that person said we will send you yeah things but we won't be manning a stand yeah yeah yeah I guess we're trying to be paperless so eh ideally something digital on the app what do you think [anon_$019]? absolutely yeah yeah I think it would have to be yeah yeah maybe [anon_$025] if you want to liaise with us on that one as well because maybe something [anon_FN1] could then follow up on with the package yeah I mean if it's something practical like you know pens and notepads or something like that fair enough but not kind of pointless flyers that that just get you know thrown into the recycle bin I think we definitely want to steer away from that mm we've already you know made decisions about being as environmentally conscious as we can in terms of you know name badges and lanyards and and different mm things books of abstracts um so I think we need to to stick with that and and you would imagine the publishers would surely be thinking along those lines nowadays as well that they've they've changed their way of thinking about [ breath in] you know gone are the days where you get you know kind of a two ton bag full of flyers and [laughs] brochures and all sorts of things [laughs] okay that's great thanks [anon_$025] for that um and [anon_$020] we'll follow up as you say [anon_$020] as well great does anybody else have have anything else that they want to raise at this stage [anon_$028] sorry yes you did have your hand up earlier please [anon_$028] yeah no no problem at all um yeah I was just thinking about the the poster session um this might be a stupid suggestion but I feel like sometimes they get lost or aren't you know super well attended uh and I was wondering if there's a way we could maybe incorporate the posters into some of the other [pause] I suppose points of the conference so that people can kind of engage with them a little bit passively so they might be more inclined to to you know go and talk about them um I'm just thinking for example maybe the welcome session if they could be kind of in the background I don't want to change the vibe of the session either you know and make it about the posters but just a suggestion absolutely um I mean normally what we've tried to do in the past is make sure that they're either integrated or very close to where the teas and coffees are being served so that people kind of you know um naturally you know hover and go and speak to people [anon_$021] can you remind us how many posters we have first of all so that we can maybe have a think about that [dog barking] we've got quite a few havent we+ + ![unclear]/! is actually quite low it was only around 11 oh yeah well that's that's enough that's um I think there's there's one that um I think I think from the authors that it's actually that they just clicked on poster instead of presentation um a group that I know so there must be eh there must be but I actually haven't been in touch with them yet um yeah it's a small number okay and and in [anon_EV2] what we did was we had a specific session but that was because it was online as well so that was different [anon_$027] did you want to come in on that? uh yes uh just a memory of [anon_INST4] has come back to me and um it's that at the poster sessions I noticed that there was unsurprisingly a large number of posters from [anon_INST4] so they had what looked like a really big poster session but it it I think it as I recollect it was along the two sides of the wall of the main uh you know the main conference hall where the plenaries were and they filled I I didn't count them uh but they filled both you know sides of that wall but the vast ma and I [pause] went around and looked at them dutifully and the vast majority were [anon_INST4] so perhaps we could advertise internally among our own post grads to encourage more posters oh sorry yeah I should have said they were from [anon_INST4] and they were PhD students yeah that's a good idea yeah we could certainly have a a think about doing that and get in touch with anybody who may not have thought about it before um actually you you've also just reminded me I can't remember if I said this at the last meeting or if we knew it at that stage that the John Monet's out of commission for this summer uh we had planned to have plenary sessions there but they're refurbishing it so it's not available for any conferences for the duration of the summer um so the one that we have been moved to is the Jonathan Swift which isn't ideal but um it's it's the one that's in behind the main canteen the the level one canteen for those of you who don't know [anon_INST1] very well it's quite a nice size um but it does have a stage which is quite dark and gloomy looking [laughs] and not very inviting um so what we had your your point triggered this in my mind [anon_$027] um we had started already to look for things like a pop up banners for the university or the school or the faculty just to brighten up the stage actually aesthetically so that would look more [laughs] inviting um so the people aren't looking at long dark kind of velvet curtains and things like that um so that that idea about having the posters in that space mightn't be a bad one actually and that would also um play to to your point [anon_$028] about having them somewhere quite central and playing a central focus um what we could even do then to make it even more explicit um [anon_$21] in the schedule we could almost at the end of some session just say 10 minutes for post reviewing or something like that so that it's actually explicit on on the schedule as well but we can certainly have a have a think about that but that would kill two birds with one stone quite nicely if we did display some of them in that space but then the the yeah only [breath out] I suppose the Jon Monet in terms of location was was better it's a nicer theater as well um I I do have a slight reservation but there's nothing we can do about it the fact that will now be moving between two buildings and it's quite a long distance for the plenaries [breath out] to the you know to the parallel sessions so if we do put the posters for example in the in the Jonathan Swift we'll really only be spending time there for the plenary sessions rather than [pause] you know and then moving back down to the KBS for for the other for the parallel sessions but look we'll have a think we'll have a think um because the KBS space as well where the teas and coffees are served is quite intimate and and would be another good place to have them [pause] um yeah we'll have a think [anon_$025] did you want to come in on that? ![unclear]/!+ +no sorry maybe maybe I missed the reason but why don't we have the [pause] main theater in the KBS? It's just too big [anon_$025] oh okay it's it's you know we be lost in it in terms of the crowd size okay ![unclear/]! because I I did attend a confer ah eh an [anon_EV1] conference there where there were way fewer people than we will have and I didn't feel that that was an issue that it was half empty well I seen it cordoned off actually halfway down where they yeah move the uh uh my yeah my recollection is just that it was too big in terms of capacity and size [anon_$020] originally wasn't it and that the John Monet was fairly easily accessible But we didn't revisit that discussion when the John Monet became unavailable really sure we didn't? yeah correct and and you're right [anon_$025] am uh maybe maybe we should uh revisit that [anon_$019] and see like we could have sectioned off um moving around certainly it'd be better if we didn't have to move between KBS it's lovely and kind of compact and yeah and new and fresh I suppose yeah yeah just to clarify I I didn't actually mean to suggest that we put the posters in the plenary hall I just mentioned that in passing to make the point that it might be an idea if we have a very small number of posters to um encourage our own postgrad students to do posters yeah absolutely yeah thanks [anon_$027] [breath in] but yeah let's let's revisit that um you know what I might just just draft an email after this meeting [anon_$020] anyway to to [anon_FN2] and [anon_FN1] [tuts] [anon_FN2] and [anon_FN1] and [laughs] for um in advance of our meeting with them next week so that they can have a think about some of these things yeah we didn't as I say revisit the idea I would imagine that it's not being used because if we're using the other parallel rooms in that week for our conference it's unlikely that somebody would have booked that big lecture theater for an individual event and even if they had it wouldn't be for the duration of all the days and we could even schedule our plenary session around um availability of that lecture theatre because we haven't done any scheduling yet so that would work fairly well yeah yeah that's that's a good suggestion let's let's rethink about that one [breath in] because you know as we said the John Monet was a nice easy one you just simply walk across the nice campus and in the front door and you're in the John Monet but trying to find the the Jonathan Swift is a whole other ballgame [ breath in]. Okay great that's been really helpful thank you for all the suggestions does anybody have anything else before we finish up? Everybody? okay great okay well we'll meet again in um uh what we'll probably do is where are we now in terms of time? um yeah what we might do is is meet again probably in three to four weeks when the the registration situation and the scheduling needs to start kicking off and we need to make plans around that um and things should be a little bit clearer then as well okay lovely thank you all very much great to see you all this morning and uh enjoy the rest of the day and the week and we'll chat again soon. bye guys bye bye everyone bye bye bye bye Okay, good. Right, um this meeting won't take too long, actually. But I thought it was important that we would get together at this point. um because the initial date for the early registration was um end of May. So I thought this might give us a good indication. um unfortunately, the conference partners have been very busy running conferences on campus, you'll have seen various things um happening, and they they canceled our meeting on Tuesday. So we have some updates from emails and things like that. But we we probably need to touch base with them again directly before we can finalize some decisions that we've been talking about so um I suppose I'll just give you as and [anon_$020] and uh [anon_$021] feel free to chip in as well, I'll give you a couple of updates that uh we're aware of um so we have 96 93, I'm sorry, 93 registrations um at the end of the month, so that's relatively good, we'd be hoping to to get it up to around 100 ![unclear]/! To break even, but we're looking as if we we can make it hopefully. And there were a few in process, you know, some people couldn't pay online with cards and they wanted invoices. So they'll take a bit longer and things like that. So um I'm fairly confident that that we'll do okay, on the registration [pause] um the= uh we have um reviewed and accepted three workshops, which will be running on the day before the conference starts. So one is a full day workshop. And then there's two half day workshops. um they were to be up on on the website and and advertised, but they haven't been put up yet. So we'll follow up on that again. um the idea is that we would um open those and send an email to everybody who had registered, we're not planning on charging um any fee for the pre conference workshops, we're going to to make those available for free. um so hopefully we'll get that up there in the next couple of days [anon_$020] did you want to come in on that? um um I imagining or did the the person running the two day oh sorry, the full day workshop say that they would go half day given that the others were half day um I imagining that email [pause] I think= =I think I think what happened was they made an inquiry because one of the reviewers had said had suggested that maybe a half day was enough. And then um we had kind of a chat and said no, we're happy enough with a full day. I I haven't heard anything since then. But maybe+ =yeah= [anon_$021] and [anon_$025]+ have had a more correspondence. [pause] No. Okay. I I think that's that's at the stage that you just said, Yeah. mm Which makes it kind of neat, because we can offer the two half days then opposite the full day one+ mm mm +so people can have the option of either doing the two half days or one half day and whatever. And various combinations should work for that. So we very much want to get that up on the website fairly urgently and advertised and um sent out so that uh everybody can, you know, see it. And I mean, the big thing is that people might want to extend their, you know, their um accommodation, and they may be about to book flights at this stage as well. So they might want to link that in. So we will, again, follow up on the um website and the workshops. We'll do that after this um ... session. um okay I= are are there any more updates before we kind of pop around to the various groups from [anon_$020] or [anon_$021] the other thing is, [anon_$020] [anon_$027] and I and [anon_$020] has done most of the heavy lifting on this um have been putting together a proposal for a book which will come from the conference, [anon_INST98] usually publish a book based on the papers in the conference. So it's a [anon_$020] has mocked up a pre proposal actually, which [anon_$027] and I have had sight of and we've had a good look through it um and that is going off or maybe has gone on ready to [anon_INST98] [anon_$020] do you want to say anything more about that? Yeah, um just briefly, yeah, it's customary um that a selection now really, you're talking 10 to 12 papers are selected um from each conference. So there's like uh a nice little snapshot um around [vocal noise] each conference. So recently, the one based on the Cambridge um event came out uh came out the 2000 the last [anon_EV16] um so yeah, yeah, that's that's about to go off to the series editor um [anon_FN67][anon_SN24] so yeah, that'll be nice. mm absolutely. um updates on our end that I'm missing [anon_$020] or [anon_$021] or [anon_$025] you've been very involved in emails as well and things like that [pause] I don't think so I think the major um thing for us is just trying to get the um workshops up on the website like there's no registration as such. In terms of fee paying, but you know, we need a list, obviously, they're going to pay the idea is you pay for you just buy your own lunch. So that way, it makes it very attractive. And there's no fee right [anon_$019] No yeah= =no that's so I agree with you people are planning and a lot of people already have booked flights. So it might be too late for some so that I guess that's holding up a lot of even social media, we need to campaign on that as well. So fingers crossed, that we can push that on, they've been incredibly busy. And they're always they're always great, you know but ![unclear]/! at the moment you know Yeah, and and linked to that. Sorry [anon_$025] I'll let you in in a second, um linked to that is, um there was discussion that we had this week about um extending the early bird registration fee. So we were waiting to and and there's no issue with that. To be honest, I don't think that's a problem. Now, given the registrations, I'm happy for people to pay the early, the early bird fee, as opposed to full fee um this isn't about making profit or anything like that. So um what we wanted to do, however, was link that in with the date by which people needed to register for the workshops, so that they're not having to make decisions about coming and going and flights and all of that without knowing everything that they were getting involved in. So if we can get the workshops up this week, then if we extended the I mean, I'd be happy to extend it until even a couple of weeks before the conference and say, look, it's all earlybird. And that's the end of it, and then no more registrations after a certain date. What What do others think? Do you think that's fair? If we I mean, as I say, it's not about making profit it's about breaking even. And it looks as if we're probably just about there or thereabouts. [pause] Yeah, no objections to that from anybody. So that's great. =Yeah, I agree. And I mean, the difference between the earlybird and the full isn't isn't massive. And I mean, maybe there's a week or two where the full is there. But I agree with you, you know, I think the earlybird is substantial. Anyway um so yeah, I'm definitely in agreement. Yeah. Okay. [cough] Excuse me. And in relation to um registration for this group. Thanks to everybody, for getting back to me um I think I'm just still waiting on one. We have made arrangements with the with [anon_FN62] and um [anon_FN61] and I will be sending that list through to them this week, again, the updated list that I have. And what they will do is they'll register so anybody who's availing of of free registration, let's call it for now um they will register you in the background. And you'll probably get a confirmation email saying that you're registered with the details um so don't worry if you haven't seen that yet. It will be coming and don't you know, your your registration will be processed, that's not going to be an issue. We've done that in the past with them. And they just they just add them all in on the back end somehow. Yeah. Okay. Great. Okay, so um at this stage, it's really open to the various groups to give us any updates from things that you've been [anon_$025]. Sorry, did you want to come in?= uh no, no, no, no, I just wanted to say, but you just said that uh some people are requesting to extend the earlybird. But you just said it so that's fine [laugh] Look, I think just send them a a little holding email saying yes, it is going to be extended um and mm I'm s= mm is there ... an issue with the fact= has it has it automatic= has it already switched on the website to full registration? It hasn't great okay I was just afraid that there might be a couple of days where people actually did pay full registration, and then we'd end up having to refund them or something. So it it has stayed as is on the website [anon_$021] has it I checked it ... Tuesday, and it hadn't changed over. So I I'm hoping that because Tuesday was meant to be the first day of full registration. Yeah. So look, we'll send you an update email to to the conference partners after this. What I'll do is I'll look at the calendar and I'll find a date kind of for final registration and for the workshops, um maybe the kind of the weekend, not the weekend directly before the conference, but the weekend before that, which would be probably the the beginning of July. And just say look, everything closes then conference registration and early bird or registration full stop ... um and I'll email them those dates. Okay, great ... Super thanks for everybody all the= for all the work in the background on that, because I know there's been a lot of to-ing and fro-ing on emails and people with different queries, and I've had them coming in directly to me as well, various people checking on registration and um and and that's understandable, people kind of get into a bit of a panic about making sure the fee is paid and all those kinds of things not knowing that, you know, we're Irish and it'll all work out on the day [laugh] that there won't be an issue around this um some universities work with conference partners ![unclear]/![tech noise] to the to the university and operate things in you know, in quite a formal way. Whereas we're we're working very much in partnership with our people who are internal. So there's not going to be an issue if you get any emails just reassure people that everything will get sorted and there is no issue same if there were kind of direct tweets coming in or anything like that. But do let us know because then we'll raise them and highlight them at our meetings every Tuesday with um [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62], just to make sure that they get responded to um because you can imagine there are probably hundreds of emails coming in for various conferences everyday to them at this stage. Okay, so um I'm happy to to kind of open it up now to the various uh groups and teams um if you want to give us any kind of updates about what you've been working on, or any comments or any questions that you have anything that's come up at your end, from your discussions um oh, yeah, every time I go to every time I say that, something else comes into my mind. And I keep talking apologies [laugh] um one thing that we will be doing when we when we meet them next time, we'll need to start drawing, uh pulling the data to see um to cross check how many of the presenters have registered. And then we start working on the schedule. So that hopefully will start to happen in the next week or so um normally, what we would do is, if there are, um if there isn't one presenter, at least from a paper from each paper, or poster, um or workshop, or whatever it is, then we would get back in contact directly with them by email to ask them to confirm that they're not attending or whether they are or not attending. Because when we start scheduling, it's really important that we get it as close as possible to a kind of a final version. And I know [anon_$025] has already been having requests in and has created a very nice file with those requests, which are easier to feed in before we start the scheduling rather than trying to retrofit them afterwards. So that will be happening in the next week or so as well. And and we'll be getting some of you involved in in doing that scheduling uh [anon_$026] you had something. Yeah, just as you mentioned scheduling there, [anon_$019] uh the chairing I suppose we can't really do anything on that until the scheduling is in place. I've had a quick chat with with [anon_$021] about it earlier in the week. So we need to wait til that's all in place. Yeah, I think they'll probably be happening together you know we'll+ =okay= + start the scheduling we'll start doing so I think we'd probably draw you into that conversation fairly early on. =yeah yeah. And we have [anon_$027] and [anon_$028] obviously+ =absolutely= + ![unclear]/! so yeah, that's great. Well, that's all I wanted to ... to say= =yeah, I think we'll get we'll get a little kind of working group of ourselves and [anon_$021] is brilliant at this kind of stuff, and your team as well for for the chairs, because that's all part of the one task if you'd like mm So yeah um we'll be in touch fairly soon about that. Good, because we would hope that most of the speakers have registered by the original earlybird registration date, which is what we had said, [tech noise] there might be a few stragglers, they're always there's always one or two, but we can we can follow up on those. Okay, so anything else from any of the other groups? [pause] mm I'll go if that's alright. ![unclear]/! [anon_$021] Because I actually have a little bit of an update on that from the 93 registrations that we have, I've done a really quick headcount. And we have 59 confirmed oral papers from external parties. And that's not including your list, [anon_$019] so I assume you maybe have around maybe 15 people from the papers that I'm that I'm looking at that would also be included in that. So that would give us= not quite as many as 15. But probably somewhere around seven or eight. Yeah. okay well, well, certainly. So then, adding, adding that maybe around 70, then in total for oral papers, and 11 confirmed posters so far for people who have paid the fee. But there are, as [anon_$019] said a good few people who are looking to come in um who've been in touch about extending the earlybird extension Yeah and and I think we can say we can reassure those people now that it is being extended. And just to go ahead and register if it's still open on the website. Yeah. um Maybe would the 30th of june be the date for that. Let me just pull up the you know what, I'll have a good look afterwards um [anon_$021] and I'll copy you in on the email that I send um and then you'll have the dates from that. Yeah. And and [anon_$026] I was also going to send you the the draft book book of abstracts that comes out of the system, but it's not giving us all of the details that we need in the background at the moment. So after the team have been um after the team and registrations in [anon_INST72a] are a little bit less busy. I'll just ask them if they can maybe adjust a couple of things in the background for you. Great, great but you will actually receive it as a Word document. You'll just have to move things around slightly. Okay. Perfect. Yeah but ![unclear]/! starting from scratch, so hopefully that'll that'll work out. Okay, great. Thanks a million [anon_$021] that's really good to know. Okay. Oh, [anon_$025] has just sent an updated document with the requests. And and I guess more of those will be coming in. Yeah. Do you want to come in on that [anon_$025]=? =yeah ju= just to remind everybody, but I'm sure you would do it anyway, that if you do receive special requests that you send them to me, so we have the one document otherwise it can get messy. Absolutely, yeah um any of the emails that I've got are not about scheduling. They're about registration, mainly and accommodation, things like that. Yeah. But if there's anything about [clear throat] about scheduling, definitely send it to to [anon_$025] well, to send it to the um the academic conference account. Okay. um updates from any of the other teams. Anybody else want to come in? [pause] I'll come in to say I don't have an update, and that I haven't been able to meet with [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62], on the social events um but we've a meeting scheduled for next Tuesday. Brilliant I 'd expect that we'll be able to finalize um entertainment for the the welcome reception and the conference dinner at that yeah great =they've just been busy as you've been saying Yeah, it's kind of it happens in waves at this time of the year. So they're, they're on for a conference this week. There'll be off next week, and there'll be another one on whatever else. um plus they have lost some staff in the last few weeks, which have made things even more difficult for them. But they you know, they are very efficient, usually. And um I'm confident that everything will will get done. Okay, any of the other teams we've heard from [anon_$026], um social media, what's= how's things how are things going there [anon_$022] and [anon_$023] Yeah, fine. [anon_$023] and I met face to face actually on Monday, which was nice and+ =ah that's a rare occurrence these days. Yeah yeah really rare especially when [anon_$023]'s in Spain. But um+ [laugh] but uh we just kind of spoke I suppose about kind of putting a plan together after this meeting, based on the updates from here and kind of realizing now I suppose that the next few things to put notices out about are um extending the earlybird. When the workshops kind of there's a bit of a plan together for the workshops, and maybe [anon_$029] as well, you can let us know when events are um+ [laugh] =yeah= a bit more sorted. And we can put notices out about that as well um some direct messages mainly about the things [anon_$019] that you were saying are kind of typical um kind of documentation for visas and things like that, which we passed on. Nothing about scheduling yet but we'll probably get a couple of those as well [anon_$025] will pass those on to you um and that's been abou= I guess what we're recently doing was pushing the earlybird deadline um yep And that might have boosted some registrations hopefully. I'm sure it did yeah. So look, I'll copy you in on that email as well with the dates [anon_$022] and feel free to start tweeting because it'll just stay open now I'm sure they're not going to close it without um getting back to us so once I send that email then we'll decide on the date. And we'll just leave it leave it at that. Yeah. Perfect. Great. Okay. Anything else from any registration team my= I feel it a little bit bad? Because I feel like um I haven't really been doing anything um so look happy to come in on the on the book of abstracts or the the scheduling. Just just give us a shout if you want us to+ =yep= +to help out in any way? Absolutely. We might pull in on your team as well for that [anon_$024] yeah and [anon_$047] uh [anon_$047] has joined us recently as well, uh I should have welcomed her. This is her first official meeting, I think, right? Yeah. You weren't at the last one. So [anon_$047] has returned from uh maternity leave recently, and is obviously very interested in [anon_EV16] and all things corpora. um uh [anon_$047], I actually did have a thought that if if if you were happy to do this, um it might be nice to have a direct contact point for the workshop organizers. yeah Just to have one person, there's not much to do, really. sure but they you know, there's a couple of things, one of them wanted to have um recordings made of the workshop. okay so we mentioned to to [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62] um and I'm not sure that that has gone anywhere um [anon_$020] actually, you're the person to to ask well not you directly but I know that [anon_FN85] did some really good recordings for the thesis in three stuff. They were very professional. And the the final output was fabulous. So uh [anon_$028] is here with us. He was uh [laugh] winner were like a rabbit in the headlights. And [anon_$029][anon_$029] is here as well, of course. So I'm not sure who he got to do that [anon_$020] but it might be worth following up with them directly. And I'm not sure what the cost was. But for the workshop, certainly the workshop conveners were happy to pay for the cost of that themselves+ yeah +but might be for us to organize this for them. Yeah, I'll follow up on that. Brilliant. And if you let us and [anon_$047] maybe know And then [anon_$047] you can start communicating. I'll send you [anon_$047] the details of the three workshop conveners. And it's just to kind of say, you know, Hi, I'm here, send them a little email. And I'll be kind of looking after any of your requirements as well as the conference team. It's all it's often just for them to have a contact point on the academic side because they don't have kind of direct access to the [anon_INST82]. [anon_$028] is saying he thinks Yeah, but but they were really good. Well, the final output was really good. So if anybody wants to see uh the thesis in three stuff, it's up on the [anon_INST72a] [anon_INST100] [laugh] ![unclear]/!+ It's excellent really, really professional well done to you all . =![unclear]/!= Absolutely. =definitely it looks amazing yeah well done And uh we believe we've we've been hearing that [anon_$028] is going on to to the next level and that there's a European kind of version of it. ![unclear]/! [laugh] Is that right [anon_$028] [laugh] ] so [anon_$028] is getting his Hollywood face ready for that [laugh] Is that the [anon_INST17] version [laugh] I wish [laugh] you need some fire behind you or something like So we all turn out with our little clicky flags for that one [anon_$028] [laugh] ![unclear]/! ![unclear]/! ... um So So yeah, so [anon_$047], if you could be I'll follow up, as I say, with an email to you and just maybe just send them a little courtesy email saying we're here. We're looking after everything, it'll be up on the website, soon, it's going to be free blahdy blahdy blah um and we can be in touch about that directly. So great I knew we'd find I knew we'd find something for you to do [anon_$047] [laugh] [laughs] =[laugh] But sometimes they just need a little bit of extra kind of looking after because they have some requirements, you know, around software or tech or whatever and and you're you're definitely the person for that as well. yeah brilliant Great. Okay, was there anything else from from any of the others any of the other teams, are we all okay on everything for now. um what I might do now coming kind of closer is= is schedule these meetings for every couple of weeks, um just to make sure that we're on top of everything. um and then coming close to the time again, we might um organize, we'll we'll see if we need to organize something on campus the the venue for for just to confirm because there was I couldn't remember actually, I had to go back and check. So the conference will be taking place on the C1 corridor in the main building. Because there was I had forgotten whether we were going to the Chemi business or not. So no, we're on the C1 corridor. We have all of those rooms along there. And then we have the plenary room is the one behind the canteen. The what's it called it not the [anon_INST101]? Is it? Yeah, the [anon_INST101] isn't it? [clear throat] Yeah, so it's the one that's in behind the canteen, which has been recently refurbished, it's it's quite nice. But the hall= the, the stage is a little bit dark. It's the one that has the stage on it they used to run concerts and comedy shows and things there years ago. um so we have managed to get our hands on some nice kind of pop up fly posters and [anon_$020] if you have anything from [anon_INST102] as well feel free to bring it over. So we'll be putting those on the stage just to brighten it up a little bit. That will just be used for the plenary sessions probably. And but we'll see how the scheduling goes. And the Center Room on the um C1 corridor is going to be used as a kind of a coffee book display area. So they may serve the coffee on the corridor they usually do. But sometimes they go into that room, I suspect they'll stay on the corridor, and people can take their coffee and and also that would be a good poster space. So um it's, you know, it's probably the biggest of those rooms, isn't it the one with the double doors in the center. So that would be good for the poster display. And it can be locked in the evening, which is nice as well, we can leave everything there um we do have books coming from [anon_INST98] we may or may not have books from other publishers uh unlikely to be honest, I mean, they're certainly not going to be sending people I think the day of publishers sending people to conferences has probably passed um and we're not accepting any kind of, you know, paper or pens or any of those kinds of things for environmental reasons we're we're keeping it fairly ... um streamlined um they, usually they they um they tend to let us keep the books that they send for display. So we'll have to confirm that with them as well [anon_$020] did you want to come in on that? um just a quick one minutes just [anon_$047] to keep it on your your checklist as well for the workshops um I know [laugh] the one we're involved in um we're requesting a room where you know people are going to have laptops so those C corridor rooms. They're not ideal with the flip over tables. So that was something we discussed [anon_$019] I can't remember we were talking about a room for that. Just keep that on your on your radar. [anon_$047] okay um will get updates on that. Okay, yeah, it might be easier for the workshops to use the [anon_INST103], or the um what's the other one at the end? Oh, there's the [anon_INST101a] one at either end. I know. Yeah. There's two at the end. There's one around the corner. The [anon_INST103] is the that's the the submarine man. I know that one. That's the one with the windows. What's the other one that doesn't have any windows ![unclear]/! Yeah.The one next to the writing center? Yeah I I can't remember what it's called. [anon_INST104] Yes, yes. [anon_INST104] yes [anon_INST104] How could anyone forget good old [anon_NN2]. [laugh] Thanks [anon_$024] [laugh] um so yeah, we have those two and they have fixed benches. So it really depends on their preference [anon_$047] and that might be something that you could have a chat about, because we have all the rooms booked anyway. okay So would they prefer a room with fixed benches? Where people can't really move around easily into groups? yeah Or would they prefer a room that has chairs with the flip down um writing desks on them, the smaller ones um and and you know, what do people need to need to bring with them do= do they need to bring devices? Or do they+ yeah +need to? I'll send you before you do that, I'll send you all the abstracts and everything so that you know what might actually stated in some of them+ okay what they need, but you you could even do the initial kind of these are the kinds of options on rooms and things like that. Yeah. That's the entire corridor is available and like from from lecture theater, to lecture theatre basically yeah exactly perfect ![unclear]/! and [anon_$019] and [anon_$047] that might trigger another one to watch is uh making sure that there's access to whatever console in terms of logging in and being able, you know, everything's on yeah the guest login. I'll double check that we have access to that for for all the conveners. Okay, perfect Yeah. And and [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62a] have the have the login details for that they they usually give it as part of the kind of registration information, things like that. But it's no harm to have a few posters around the place stuck up on the walls and things like that saying, These are the login details that you need. Yeah. Super. Okay, that's great. Is there anything else from anybody that we've forgotten? Or? No? Okay, so look, what I might do, actually, after this meeting, as well is um schedule the next few meetings leading up right up to the conference, so that you have them all in your calendar at this stage, and and we know what's happening um ... and then it'll probably be a good idea for anybody who's local enough to come on campus, you know, the day before, or just check out things and make sure the layout is okay. And, you know, check that we have the kind of the signs for this. Three minutes, five minutes, whatever we do, stop. um if we need those, you know, no, lamination for environmental reasons. [anon_$025] [laugh] Yeah, just just for the Documentation team um you mentioned that the conference organizers were organizing certificates and things like that. But is there anything that we need to think about? Because we'll be I'm hoping that we'll be meeting soon, just to see what our role is, in terms of documentation? Yeah, maybe you could just do up those, those posters, those little kinds of okay stops, whatever, five minute, three minute, or five minute, two minute and stop. okay uh just little, you know, different colored paper or something like that [anon_$025] okay um I would imagine how many parallel sessions are we anticipating [anon_$021] three or four? Kind of hard to say maybe do do four [anon_$025] anyway, just to be sure um four yeah, maybe maybe do five, one for the plenary room as well. And these things can go missing sometimes for sweats. So it's no harm to have another a couple of extra. um but yeah, the the documentation in terms of visas in terms of certificates, all of that the conference partners will look after that, because they can pull the information from the um back end of [anon_INST105]. And then what they're planning to do is just issue it to everybody. We did confirm that at the last meeting, because it's PDF anyway. So they'll just issue these to everybody um and then if anybody has any special requests about specific types of information they want to have on those certificates, they can get back in touch, and they can be customized if needs be. Well, that's one ![unclear]/! yes [anon_$020] sorry this is just um just something came in there um somebody's looking to book, um or to check if accommodation was available. They said that the link didn't seem to be open. So maybe just when you're doing your follow up list to [anon_FN61] and co, um because people once we put out the the conference web= um workshops um it may trigger, you know, a number of registrations. And just to double check, you know, do they need to increase the allocation or that there seems some= someone has reported that they couldn't check the accommodation okay Yeah I can certainly mention that I haven't heard that it was closed off or anything. Did you hear anything? [anon_$021] on on that? No. So yeah, it might just be the link has dropped or something has happened or I'll check it now once we've finished the call, and um yeah. and before you get in touch with the group, um we're also going to send out a reminder to people via [anon_INST105] telling them to register for the conference via the portal. For the people who are here though, if you're on [anon_$019]'s list, you don't need to do that. It's just for you will get the message automatically with everyone else. But you don't need to do that, because you'll be on [anon_$019]'s list. Yeah, and and I suppose we'll wait to send that [anon_$021] until after the workshop information is up. Yeah. Yeah, so that we don't have 100 emails coming back saying oh can't find the workshop information. Yeah. Okay. Great. I'm not sure when that other conference was finishing that they're working on um this week. I did see signs on campus yesterday. I'm sure [anon_$029] and,[anon_$028] and oth= [anon_$047] who were on campus yesterday probably saw the same but as soon as that's done, I'd say they'll they'll turn their heads again to this one. Okay, brilliant. Anything else from anybody are we all happy with that. Great. Okay. Well listen, as ever. Thank you very much for for all the work in the background. And uh we'll be in touch soon. And we'll see you again in in a couple of weeks hopefully. All right thanks guys. Thanks. Take care, bye everyone. see ya bye bye Bye bye [multiple speakers] ![unclear]/! know that we're recording. Good ... um ... so I think this, this meeting is really going to be just about uh providing everybody with some updates um and if anybody is unsure about anything that's happening, um you can certainly feel free to to ask questions here. There's been a lot, as I said, uh going on in the background with the various groups and and different things. So um that's good, I think we're, we're, we're doing fairly well, the week before the conference can't believe it's on top of us already um so the situation at the moment is we have been working uh in the background, you'll have seen that the provisional schedule was um posted this day last week uh there have been a lot of changes to ![unclear]/! somebody's needing to be admitted, there have been a lot of changes in the meantime, to the schedule, for various reasons, new registrations, um some things to do with the system. And and then people, of course, requesting changes. uh it's funny how you know, a lot of people email in in advance of the program being published to tell you that they can't, they're not available on certain days or at certain times. And that makes it quite easy, because you can just prioritize those in the schedule. But other people wait until it's published. And then they come back and say, by the way, sorry, I can't do the Saturday when you've scheduled me, it's always easier if they tell you in advance. But equally, you don't want to kind of solicit that and have a free for all. So it's managing that. So um to be fair, uh we I think have got all of the changes up to date and implemented in the version of the program that's in the Dropbox folder, which all of you have access to um it hasn't been posted, the updated version hasn't been posted to the web yet um but we are planning to send out an email this afternoon to anybody who's registered with the updated program. And there's a meeting with the conference partners tomorrow. So by tomorrow at the latest that version should be on the on the website as well. um the app for the conference is being um I don't know what what do you call it constructed, it's being developed not being developed it's, it's being populated, I guess, at the moment in the background, by the conference partners um and they obviously don't want to finalize that until the program is relatively stable. Because any change has a you know, a fairly big knock on effect. So while we're not publishing a book of abstracts in kind of paper version, or anything like that, there will be an app. And the book of abstracts, as far as I know, will be available through the app as well. But each of the papers on the schedule in the app will be clickable and and it will be linked to to the abstract. So the idea has always been that we will go as paperless as we can for this um it worked quite well for the for the CL conference last year once that [anon_INST105] stuff was set up in the background. But um [anon_FN61] has made a commitment that the app will be ready by tomorrow, close of business tomorrow. So we should have some more stuff to be to be tweeting um as well at that stage [anon_$022]. So we are planning to kind of finalize as much as we can of the program by the end of today. And that's the version that we will be emailing to everybody later this afternoon or this evening, I think [anon_$025]'s going to do that. And [anon_$021] will be working on it [anon_$026] is working hard in the background, populating the program with um chairpersons at this stage for each of the sessions um and we've we've tidied up on a few bits and pieces that that we need to include um so there will be a bit of tweeting to be done, [anon_$022] later today or tomorrow once that's all been kind of finalized um so that's that's where we're at the the the um social program has been more or less, it's really the conference dinner and the reception, which we've decided to have on the Thursday evening um because more people will be available at that stage um the workshops have all been advertised and registrations have happened for the workshops, we have roughly around about 25 participants on average for the workshops, which is good, I think um we did open it up to some of our own students as well, just in the last day or two when we knew that there might be opportunities for them to pop into the workshops. They're freely available anyway. So we figured why not if there were students on campus, so we opened them up to the [anon_INST72a] and and [anon_INST102] students as well. um am I missing anything in terms of updates? Or does anybody from any of the other groups want to come in and add anything? Or does anybody from the wider group have any questions that you want to ask at this stage or comments you want to make? Please feel free because I'm kind of doing this off the top of my head now at this stage [pause] [anon_$019] ![unclear]/! I just= Yeah, [anon_$022], do you want to go and then [anon_$020]= =um just a quick one I'm just wondering about the social media and kind of feeding in with the app. Is there any anything around the app that will be somewhat connected with social media in any way or Anything that we need to know about that um I don't know. But [anon_$020] you might raise that question at the meeting tomorrow with with [anon_FN61]= Yes and [anon_FN62a] yeah, yeah. I'll look at the thinking of um social media and app. um I think once the app is ready as well, we had said that, you know, it's something to, to put out on a tweet. um and I think you= I came in late. So maybe you've already covered that. A tweet once we have the final program well uh linking it to the sending out the link to the Dropbox, so at least if there are, if there are changes, that they'll find the most up to date. So maybe the tweet could say that the up to date um program will be found um at this link um yeah, that's that's all I had on that list [anon_$019] from earlier meeting. Numbers are healthy that's that's one good thing to report. What what are the= the registration numbers as of yesterday were quite good um Were they around 120 [anon_$019] was it or am I imagining that ![I think we had above]/! 130 did we I'm not sure now I'm just Yeah yeah yeah yeah um It's very good. Yeah yeah So um does it do a total at the bottom, because if it doesn't, uh yeah 122, actually, you're right [anon_$020] yeah+ =mm good= +122 um full registrations. And then I'm not sure if there are a couple of additionals, there there'll probably just be local additionals for some of the workshops as well. So um I mean, the most important thing is that we're in a breakeven position, which I think we are at this stage Mm Now, which is good to know, some of those are kind of reduced registrations and things as well. But I do think we're overall we'll probably just be we'll just be okay. mm good Yeah. good So that's good ... um, yeah, so I'm not sure. Am I missing anything? I feel like I have so much information in my head about it at this stage [laugh] ![unclear]/! all out we've just come out of a a meeting. Yeah. So we're+ +![unclear]/! detailed ![unlcear]/! Yeah. um Just scan through here. um so yeah, I suppose you're at that point where ... um you know, before the event, there're all the minor details. And ... it's, it's one= once once it's up and running, everything will be fine. But, you know, finalizing a schedule is always tight, isn't it? Because you know right up on to all the way through the conference, there'll be probably people pulling out or who knows. So that's one thing, we're we're gonna sort out tomorrow, as well a sort of a protocol for it. If someone cancels as they will, right down to the wire um what do we do? And um [anon_$026]'s covering the chairing, which, again, is is a complicated business, because you're gonna have people last minute not being able to do it. But [anon_$026] has that covered in terms of having a kind of a a subs bench. um so um [anon_$026]'s got that covered. So yeah, um I think we're, we're in a good place. Of course, I swanned off nicely for two weeks while you guys did all the programming+ =![which we'll]/! never forgive you for [anon_$020] [laugh] as I swan off this evening, for four days [laugh] Can I just put in there just on the chairing just to say thanks to [anon_$028], because he cross checked the the provisional um schedule. So [anon_$028], I might be back to you this afternoon. Because we're going we're going live, I think shortly+ =no bother= +so I might get you to to check it before um+ mm mm +before we we we finalize it. And there may be changes after that. But um yeah, it might be after some people as well just to set up a WhatsApp group just for the subs bench. So I might need phone numbers and things. But I'll be+ mm mm +in touch during the week about that, anyway. Yeah. And it tends to work more easily in a face to face conference where people are kind of hovering anyway. And and very often if even if things go really badly wrong, and there isn't anybody in the room to chair it, somebody will step up and and do it. Yeah. [anon_$028], and [anon_$027], and myself should be kind of floating. Anyway, any there =mm mm= +are only four sessions. So+ =yeah= +we'll have somebody else+ =yeah= +on stand by as well. So it should be fine. And [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62a] have a good eye on it+ =yeah= +let us know if there's a need for anything. um we are we're not, we're not publishing, we're obviously not printing programmes or abstracts or anything like that. The only thing we are doing is we are going to have name tags, um which um the conference partners were were you know, they really want to have those because it's a way of identifying people for catering purposes. And for you know, just security purposes as well at the conference. So we did kind of push back slightly on it, but then that was the one that and they said that they recycled they're all recycled and they're made from recycled and they're as environmentally friendly mm mm as they possibly can be. So um I think+ =mm mm= +fair enough. We have to you have to allow that to happen. Name Tags are important at a conference um one thing um [anon_$047] um uh workshops um we were wondering if about the the one workshop where they wanted to record, do you know if that that+ yeah +followed through I sent on all the details to [anon_FN101] a good few weeks ago, and he got back to say he'd consult with the rest of his team. But then I saw since another team member has got in touch, inquiring, but [anon_FN101] was on annual leave. So I think there might have been some, some crossed wires there. I'm going to follow up today, just to see if =mm mm= they've made a decision about that um because then she+ mm mm +suggested photography as well, which hadn't previously been mentioned. ![unclear]/! right So um I I got the impression they were she was referring to just, you know, photos for their own use. But obviously, we have a policy in place uh for photography at the event. So I'm going to I'll I'll follow up with [anon_FN101] directly, because he's the ![unclear]/! =Yeah yeah= ![unclear]/! I mean the thing is to try and just just get them to make their own arrangements directly with this company. We don't really+ +exactly yeah= + want to be involved in any of this. um now, I know that they are the workshop conveners are waiting for a list of attendees with email addresses. And we've asked um we can't get that you see, there's a difficulty we don't have access to all of the information on the system. So we have asked for [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62] to send that through as soon as possible if it's not done by tomorrow [anon_$020] is going to raise it at the meeting as well. So I think once the workshop conveners have that list and can contact people themselves as well, they'll begin+ mm +to relax a little bit more and be able to communicate directly. Yeah, that's kind of their number one question is, um you know, who's coming? How many people are coming and then that's, that's their ![unclear]/! as we know, that will be mm mm +hopefully in the next couple of days. Yeah, we do have some attendees. [anon_$047], I don't know if I sent you that. I just got that. Yep. um but we don't have email addresses on that. That's the bit we're missing. Yeah. So I think for I think they'll they'll be okay for a couple of days until they can. I know, they want to maybe generate some questionnaires and things like that um but I've sent like a holding email. yes to say thatl they'll have that information shortly. So well, hopefully after the meeting tomorrow. Actually, if you were free tomorrow, [anon_$047] there's no reason why you you couldn't go to that meeting as well directly. um [anon_$020] would you mind sending the link to [anon_$047] as well? I'll do that straight away Yeah. yep brilliant cos I yeah, do you know what, rather than having more communication after a meeting, I think ![unclear]/! at that stage 12 o'clock tomorrow perfect Yeah. the um so I don't think there's anything else on this [anon_025] did you want to come in? Yeah just a just two things um so [anon_$047], we communicated together, I meant to reply to you. Sorry, you sent me a message this morning. But just you know, when you're communicating with the workshop, conveners could you uh copy academic, maybe you did, just in case, I haven't seen academic talc just to make sure that I keep an eye on it as well, because they will, they'll have communicated with me as well. So I'll make sure I don't contradict anyone. And uh the other thing is for uh registration uh next week, so who does what at the tables and for documentation, do we need to do anything, I'm just not sure if ![unclear]/!any of that that's [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62a] and their crew, they look after all of that. They look after registration, the name tags, the any letters that are needed, any of that kind of thing is any of the kind of administrative on the spot stuff is is down to them, which is a a big relief on on the day. Super perfect. So just the last thing, as we said in the previous meeting, just now, for um everybody who is going around to the conference, if anybody goes to you, and says oh I have to go home, I have to cancel my paper, or just to make sure you notify me because I'll be printing each um session in paper format, just to put it on the doors. Now, [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62] may be doing that. So we'll check that tomorrow. But just in case, they don't, you know, obviously, tell them and tell me as well, just so that we all know, for the person who puts the timing on the door so that it's accurate every day. That's it. Yeah. For documentation then yeah. Great ... actually ![unclear]/! for setting it up might be useful to to feed that information through as well. Yeah. Actually, when Yeah, when when you're setting up Whatsapp group [anon_$026]. For the chat, if we just set up a general if we set up one Whatsapp group for the local organizing committee for anybody who's going to be there. So maybe if you email everybody after this meeting asking for mobile numbers for whoever is going to be present, or Yeah, or if you want to pop it in here, absolutely um then we can communicate whatever we need to just instead of having different groups for different things, because hopefully there won't be that much um going on [pause] I have a quick question for [anon_$047], just in relation to equipment for workshops are there many= no um no specific requests, except [anon_FN101][anon_SN100] asked for extension leads, but I don't think that's actually necessary. He was just concerned that people's laptops will die throughout the day but um I I He asked if we could provide a number of extension leads, but given the room that it's being held in, it has sufficient um outlets. So I don't think that'll be necessary um cut I can throw some in the boot of my car [laugh] just in case of all eventualities, but yeah, that's it, and they have software that they want people to um download in advance, but they're going to communicate that directly once mm they get the the, ![unclear]/! the participants yeah and yeah that's why I think it's essential that the list, you get that list, because um yeah, the same for our workshop group, you know, you want to give them an advance on the kind of software downloaded [breath] yep ... okay, so I think that's, that's kind of all the bases covered. Does anybody from from the wider group have any questions or anything else you want to add at this point? [anon_$022] Yeah, sorry One question [anon_$019] there was just one direct message on Twitter about uh somebody who wanted to volunteer um [laugh] what I didn't know this this is my question as well. She just I think she wants to just get involved somehow um she said, Yeah, she if we're looking for anybody to volunteer as anything, she's um a structured PhD student in UL, one of the [anon_INST171a]. So she might get involved in the chairing I know, [anon_$027] [anon_SN33] was going to email the [anon_INST171] um as regards kind of the subs bench for the chairing so Okay, yeah, maybe I'll get in touch with [anon_$027] Yeah. she might do that ![unclear]/! [anon_$027]'s away at the moment she'll be back on Friday Way. Yeah, yeah, I think [anon_$027] is probably a little bit out of touch on on the list know that she's, she doesn't have that list. Now, [anon_$026], that I have of the ones who have registered for the conference, the whole okay there's no point in confusing things by sending an email to the entire group, because that group in particlular, it will confuse everything. And you'll get students okay turning up to do things that they don't know what they're doing. And mm I would suggest ![unclear]/! [laughs] I agree I would suggest not sending an email to the group. At this point. I think I have the list of the ones who have registered and unless we really need to use them for the purposes of chairing. Some of them have experience in conferences and chairing and all the rest and others don't. So um that's all I'll say. If if we really need them, we'll use them. But if not, I think maybe let's make with with who we have grand I don't think there'll be a massive need for such a big I don't think there will either subs bench anyway mm probably not no yeah I think you can simply reply to her [anon_$022] saying thanks very much. We'll be in touch if we do need anything. Yeah. Yeah, [anon_$047]. yeah this is I know, we raised or this was raised at the last meeting, but I just want to confirm um on the day of the workshops, there's no provided catering no but there will be places like the [anon_INST172] and [anon_INST173] and things will be open for the attendees. Perfect. Yeah, [anon_INST174] I think is probably the easiest, [anon_INST174] yeah easier to pop down stairs, and the [anon_INST172] shop is there um [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62] will be able to tell you tomorrow, what else great is open on campus at the moment, because I lose track at the moment with all the restaurants and opening times over the summer. But our catering is happening in the main restaurant, as far as I know. So I presume that is open in a general sense as well. um perfect But I think the the easiest is down the stairs and out the door to [anon_INST174] to be honest yeah Yeah, great. [anon_$028]. I guess it's a quick one, um because we're putting together the kind of guidelines for the chairs. So just to make sure everything is kind of aligned with what's actually happening. um So the presenters, when they come in we don't have their presentations in advance. That's all happening just before each session. Is that right? That they're going to upload their their presentation with the help of the chair And I'm not sure that's another question for [anon_FN61] and [anon_FN62a] tomorrow, um actually, because traditionally, and this is going back how many years now since we've had a face to face conference, traditionally, they do ask the speakers to upload their sessions in advance of yeah the of the session, at least on the morning, and that there's a tech person available, you know, between a certain time and a certain time, I suspect they're planning to send out a general email to everybody with all this kind of information very soon, but it might be just worth checking, because it will be a bit chaotic if everybody's trying to open their presentations on the day. I think yeah they do need to be pre loaded, you know, at least on the morning um or even, you know, one for the morning group and one for the afternoon. Or if they I don't know if they want them emailed in advance or whatever. Yeah, we need to check that [anon_$028]. That's a good point. And then the second thing is just a small thing um and I think [anon_$025], maybe you're you're doing the the signs for the chairs um so what we've put on the guidelines is, uh I think five two and stop. Is that okay ![unclear]/ actually changed that now to oh okay five one and stop following our our meeting here [laugh] All right, no problem. [laugh] I can I can put the two if you want. So that's not an issue. So what do we do? So five, one stop. Yeah, I think that's fine. Five one stop. one is more urgent [laugh] yeah alright, thanks. Great. Okay.Is there anything else that a big, big thanks to [anon_$025] as well for replying to all the emails, there's been so much coming in over the last couple of weeks. And and you've really been on top of it. So thanks a million for that [anon_$025], as well as everybody else in the background, but ... we're getting there. I think we're nearly there. So I think that's about it for now so um there'll be more kind of updates coming and different things happening over email and whatever else And if not, I don't think is, is there a need for us as a group to have an online meeting next week? Or not? I'll be guided on that one. The larger group [anon_$020] what do you think? I think I think not. um I mean, I think if something comes up just maybe email, what do you think? That would be my sense of it? To be honest, I'm I'm going to start trying to transition from the kind of online organizing space to the physical organizing space um Tuesday and Wednesday of next week, I'm going to be Yeah, I'll be in for the workshops on Wednesday, but I may even pop in on Tuesday as well just to mm cast my eye over things and make sure the stands are where they should be and things like that. Yeah, okay, let's do that. Okay. great All right. Lovely to see you all and hopefully see many of you in person next week and we'll be in touch over over email over the coming days. Yeah. many speakers Thanks a million. Thanks to everybody Bye bye bye